| 00:00.30 | raevanmorlock | aw shit.. a translate method.. I knew I was forgetting something |
| 00:00.34 | Karrion | so both BaseTranslatingObject and BaseTranslatingAndRotatingObject (that's a crap name, but whatever) whould have to implement that translate(x, y) method |
| 00:00.50 | Karrion | presumably but altering their x and y position fields |
| 00:00.55 | Karrion | s/but/by/ |
| 00:01.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh (n=chatzill@c-68-36-168-161.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:01.56 | Karrion | likewise RotatingObject would define a rotate(t) method, which would be implemented by both BaseRotatingObject and BaseTranslatingAndRotatingObject |
| 00:02.43 | raevanmorlock | Which all sounds like I'm going to be writing the same functions over and over again |
| 00:02.58 | Karrion | and then your actual object classes would extend either BaseRotatingObject, BaseTranslatingObject, or BaseTranslatingAndRotatingObject depending on which they needed, and so they get it magically |
| 00:02.59 | Iriel | That's where utility classes come in |
| 00:03.24 | Iriel | You only have to implement each of them once, but then you can refer to those implementations from multiple objects |
| 00:03.35 | Karrion | well, you'll have to write them twice (eg for RO and RaTO) |
| 00:03.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 00:03.52 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 00:04.04 | Karrion | then if you had a BaseRotatingAndTranslatingAndScalingObject, you'd have to write them again |
| 00:04.15 | Karrion | but you won't have to write them for _every_ object |
| 00:04.24 | Karrion | because they're in the Base ones |
| 00:04.41 | raevanmorlock | And a utility class would be like TranslateObject(TranslatingObject TO, float x, float y) ? |
| 00:06.07 | Karrion | yep. you still have to write translate(x, y) on all the Base classes, but the implementation is standardised to just calling the utility method: TranslateObject(this, x, y); |
| 00:06.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 00:06.37 | raevanmorlock | C# should really have a much easier way of doing this :\ |
| 00:06.43 | Karrion | so when you have a new Base object, you just copy and paste that in as boilerplate |
| 00:07.46 | subbot | i just got frustrated with my entire UI and deleted my interface and WTF folder, and forgot about a little mod i wrote :( |
| 00:07.56 | Shirik | :) |
| 00:07.58 | Shirik | :( ** |
| 00:07.59 | raevanmorlock | recycling bid? |
| 00:08.04 | raevanmorlock | bin* |
| 00:08.51 | subbot | oh lol i forgot about that ~_~ |
| 00:09.00 | Shirik | the beautiful think about windows is |
| 00:09.04 | Shirik | every time you delete something |
| 00:09.09 | Shirik | it's still there, you just need to know how to find it |
| 00:09.20 | Shirik | unfortunately that's horrible for security; but microsoft was never big on that anyway |
| 00:09.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.164.121.134) |
| 00:09.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 00:09.51 | raevanmorlock | Windows is for the general consumer.. if you really need to delete something, get a program to do it |
| 00:10.09 | raevanmorlock | Have it spend a half hour writing random values over the memory that the program occupied |
| 00:10.19 | Shirik | (19:09:58) (raevanmorlock) Windows is for the general consumer.. if you really need to delete something, WRITE a program to do it |
| 00:10.21 | Shirik | fixed |
| 00:10.57 | Shirik | as the forsaken say: trust no-one |
| 00:10.59 | raevanmorlock | I was making the assumption that most people in the world wouldn't know where to begin with that.. I suppose I should've catered better to the immediate audience =P |
| 00:11.50 | raevanmorlock | so anyhoo.. C# is evil |
| 00:11.54 | Shirik | anyone know off the top of their head, if I did a UIParent:SetScale(2); ... would that persist between login sessions |
| 00:11.58 | Shirik | didn't I say that like |
| 00:11.59 | Shirik | 12 hours ago? |
| 00:12.15 | Shirik | (13:54:33) (Shirik) evil C# |
| 00:12.17 | subbot | dumb rogues ambushing me while i configure my UI in AV :( |
| 00:12.24 | raevanmorlock | you said something to the effect of it |
| 00:12.42 | raevanmorlock | Don't mod in PVP areas! |
| 00:12.43 | Shirik | (14:02:58) (Shirik) did I mention C# is evil? |
| 00:12.45 | Shirik | I said it twice |
| 00:12.52 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 00:13.10 | raevanmorlock | I would think multiple inheritance would be a fundamental aspect of OOP |
| 00:13.26 | raevanmorlock | You have an animal that's a dog that's a pitbull.. it's simple |
| 00:13.40 | raevanmorlock | wait.. that's different |
| 00:13.41 | raevanmorlock | dammit |
| 00:13.46 | subbot | AV is the easiest way to configure stuff in a raid environment |
| 00:13.48 | subbot | :( |
| 00:13.53 | WobWork | It's true. |
| 00:14.05 | WobWork | It's also ultimately easier to configure stuff in AV if you're a rogue. |
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| 00:14.21 | subbot | i just put autorun on |
| 00:14.24 | subbot | and configure stuff |
| 00:14.29 | WobWork | I just go take a mine |
| 00:14.38 | Shirik | I actually do tend to test out raid components of rdx in AV |
| 00:17.25 | raevanmorlock | Anyone wanna do my homework for me? |
| 00:19.13 | TC_Working | what kind of homework? |
| 00:19.30 | raevanmorlock | Either art or programming |
| 00:19.39 | TC_Working | damn, i was hoping it was sex ed |
| 00:19.53 | raevanmorlock | uh... they're just as good. Yeah. |
| 00:20.08 | TC_Working | heh |
| 00:20.41 | raevanmorlock | UAT.. University of Anal Teachers.. ha |
| 00:21.53 | Iriel | Shirik: No - it doesn't persist |
| 00:22.02 | Shirik | thanks, that's what I thought |
| 00:22.03 | Iriel | Shirik, There's a CVar for the 'default' UI Scale |
| 00:22.08 | MentalPower|Univ | theres a CVar that does... right |
| 00:22.18 | Shirik | hrm what is it? |
| 00:22.46 | MentalPower|Univ | check Config.wtf |
| 00:22.54 | MentalPower|Univ | don't know of the top of my head |
| 00:22.56 | Shirik | yeh I just pulled it up :P |
| 00:23.11 | Shirik | #1 thing I hate with patch days |
| 00:23.26 | Shirik | it erases the little WoW icon on your quick launch bar and resets it back to Launcher.exe |
| 00:23.32 | Shirik | I want it to be WoW.exe -console :( |
| 00:23.38 | MentalPower|Univ | not on WinVista :) |
| 00:23.41 | Karrion | Shirik: yeah I hate that, it's evil |
| 00:23.55 | Shirik | so I just had to restart wow too |
| 00:24.03 | Shirik | cause I'm thinking the CVar has restrictions, but no way to tell without getting into console |
| 00:24.25 | Karrion | it made sense when the launcher first appeared to change it, but if we've changed it manually the patcher should leave our config the hell alone |
| 00:25.02 | bleetah | blizz say there's stuff in the launcher to help check for keyloggers, virii etc. dunno how true that is, but that's of little value to me |
| 00:25.17 | bleetah | no, you should back, patch, then do a diff! :-P |
| 00:25.25 | Shirik | it's uiscale, for anyone that wanted to know |
| 00:25.28 | bleetah | *backup |
| 00:25.45 | raevanmorlock | setcvar("uiscale", val) // yay I helped |
| 00:25.56 | raevanmorlock | dammit you beat me.. stupid browser stalled |
| 00:26.35 | raevanmorlock | I was gonna guess "uiscale" too.. even though I had no idea what you guys were talking about. |
| 00:27.20 | Shirik | bleh |
| 00:27.29 | Shirik | it accepts values below 0.62 but it doesn't affect anything |
| 00:28.07 | Shirik | but... you can do UIParent:SetScale(0.1); and it takes it fine |
| 00:28.08 | kaso| | What are you trying to do? |
| 00:28.16 | Shirik | actually just t rying to answer someone else's question |
| 00:28.22 | kaso| | oh ha |
| 00:28.39 | kaso| | I've been using 0.5 UI scale for ages via UIParent:SetScale |
| 00:29.13 | raevanmorlock | You could just make a mod to do it then |
| 00:29.27 | raevanmorlock | or even use one of those mods that issues a series of commands when it starts |
| 00:29.44 | Tem|Work | if the CVar will accept values below .62, then you don't need an addon for it |
| 00:29.51 | Tem|Work | because those automatically persist |
| 00:29.54 | Shirik | ow... |
| 00:30.06 | Shirik | don't do UIParent:SetScale(100) |
| 00:30.11 | raevanmorlock | but he said a value below .62 doesn't do anything |
| 00:30.31 | Shirik | yeah you can SET it below 0.62, but it just assumes 0.62 for any values below it |
| 00:30.40 | Tem|Work | it doesn't update right away |
| 00:30.49 | Shirik | I tried reloadui and all that good stuff |
| 00:30.49 | Tem|Work | have you tried a ui reload after setting the CVar? |
| 00:30.55 | Tem|Work | ah, okay |
| 00:30.55 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.164.121.134) |
| 00:31.12 | Iriel | CVars are typically bounded from the API |
| 00:31.25 | Iriel | Though you can, unless they changed it, edit the file to exceed the bounds |
| 00:31.50 | Tem|Work | ah, that's true |
| 00:32.00 | Tem|Work | I used to set my camera distance out really far |
| 00:32.04 | Shirik | the console usually complains - like if you do TargetNearestDistance 500 |
| 00:32.19 | Shirik | the console yells back "CVar TargetNearestDistance must be between 1 and 50.0000" |
| 00:32.30 | Shirik | when I set UIParent it didn't yell back, but it also didn't change anything |
| 00:32.34 | Shirik | er, uiscale |
| 00:36.05 | raevanmorlock | What rolls down stairs, alone or in pairs, rolls over your neighbor's dog.. |
| 00:36.43 | Iriel | Massive Slinkys? |
| 00:37.09 | raevanmorlock | lol no.. you've never heard this before? |
| 00:37.11 | Shirik | a log |
| 00:37.25 | Shirik | google + wikipedia ftw |
| 00:37.31 | raevanmorlock | oh you suck |
| 00:37.32 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpy's_Big_Day/The_Big_Shot |
| 00:37.36 | Shirik | hehe |
| 00:37.36 | raevanmorlock | How have you guys never heard this? |
| 00:37.44 | Shirik | my tv exposure is rather lacking |
| 00:38.11 | raevanmorlock | I know the whole song by heart.. which is odd because I haven't heard it since I was a kid and could never get the words right back then |
| 00:39.11 | raevanmorlock | Anyone know what "Sad Panda" is from? |
| 00:39.43 | kaso| | Well pandas come from china dont they? |
| 00:39.57 | raevanmorlock | oy vey.. |
| 00:39.59 | pastamancer | I want to say it's from south park, but I'm not certain |
| 00:40.13 | raevanmorlock | Yes! |
| 00:42.03 | raevanmorlock | Pet Rocks were a 1970s fad conceived by Los Gatos, California advertising executive Gary Dahl. The first Pet Rocks were ordinary gray pebbles bought at a builder's supply store and marketed as if they were live pets. The fad lasted only about six months, ending with the Christmas season in December 1975; but in its short run, the Pet Rock made Dahl a millionaire.[1] |
| 00:42.36 | Garoun | ltb mod that cna let me compare two items side by side without having to have one equipped :P |
| 00:42.40 | bleetah | "And when one little panda puts his furry little willy in another panda's ear, that makes me a very sad panda" |
| 00:43.05 | raevanmorlock | haha bleetah |
| 00:43.58 | raevanmorlock | I can't believe people in the 70's actually spent 3.95 on a rock and tried to teach it tricks and crap... you'd have to be high 24/7--like.. everyone would have to be |
| 00:45.04 | raevanmorlock | Just go down to a creek or something and grab a good-sized boulder and be like "my pet rock can beat up your pet rock!" and start throwing it at people |
| 00:48.31 | raevanmorlock | I don't think teaching your pet rock how to fly was in the manual |
| 00:49.38 | [dRaCo] | I figured it out myself. |
| 00:49.49 | raevanmorlock | oh.. well good job then |
| 00:50.20 | [dRaCo] | Great, isn't it? |
| 00:50.25 | raevanmorlock | This chatroom has dashed my hopes of building a highly flexible game engine and now I don't know what to do with myself |
| 00:51.04 | raevanmorlock | Stop littering! |
| 00:52.06 | [dRaCo] | Well, enough fun for today. I'm off. |
| 00:52.27 | raevanmorlock | hasta la something |
| 00:52.53 | raevanmorlock | there goes my only friend in the whoooole world.... |
| 00:53.47 | Shirik | :( |
| 00:54.11 | raevanmorlock | Are you a sad panda? |
| 00:54.18 | Shirik | yes |
| 00:54.48 | raevanmorlock | Well then off to the land of forgotten mascots with you |
| 00:56.40 | raevanmorlock | Did you know that when one little panda pulls on another little panda's underwear, that's sexual harassment? That makes me a sa-a-a-a-ad panda. |
| 00:57.58 | raevanmorlock | Sorry.. I meant the Island of Misfit Mascots Commune |
| 01:03.27 | raevanmorlock | Some of you guys program for a living, right? What do you do when you've been programming all day long and your brain shuts off? |
| 01:03.45 | Shirik | that doesn't happen |
| 01:03.49 | Shirik | brain only shuts off at sleep time |
| 01:04.17 | raevanmorlock | It happens to me |
| 01:05.12 | raevanmorlock | Not that I pass out or anything.... but like--I get in a funk |
| 01:05.30 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: yeah, that can happen sometimes |
| 01:05.36 | raevanmorlock | And I kinda sit here staring at the wall for 3 hours |
| 01:05.41 | Shirik | usually I have to force myself to go to bed |
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| 01:05.48 | Shirik | I insist on staying up working on stuff |
| 01:06.00 | Karrion | usually just means I need to go for a walk or do something else for a while, and my brain processes stuff in the background |
| 01:06.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | is there a script command i can use to loot something that my cursor is over? |
| 01:06.30 | raevanmorlock | I love to program... but I don't think I could do it 40-50-60+ hours/week |
| 01:06.49 | Karrion | Mr_Rabies2: nope, requires mouse click :-( |
| 01:08.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | cause this bug with corpses being where they're not keeps happening |
| 01:08.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 01:08.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | and it's annoying |
| 01:08.58 | Mr_Rabies2 | i haven't been able to loot 2 npcs in a row cause they're bugged and desynced :/ |
| 01:09.31 | JoshBorke | I HATE desync'd mobs |
| 01:09.45 | Karrion | especially when they're quest item dropping mobs |
| 01:09.48 | raevanmorlock | How would looting what's under yoru cursor help if the mob isn't where it appears to be? |
| 01:10.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | i dunno, maybe it would let me loot it even with the icon blacked out :x |
| 01:10.24 | JoshBorke | no, it won't |
| 01:10.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | sometimes if they're close to where they are but not exactly i can get in range and do it |
| 01:10.33 | JoshBorke | you basically have to kill them where they start |
| 01:10.49 | raevanmorlock | finger of death! |
| 01:12.17 | raevanmorlock | I need a new hobby |
| 01:12.52 | raevanmorlock | oh wow.. I've only been brain-dead for 2 hours now... seemed longer then that |
| 01:15.14 | Iriel | mr_rabies2: No script command but you can bind a KEY to it. It would unlikely not fix the desync problem tho. |
| 01:16.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | well, if they're close enough client and server side i can get the icon to turn back brown if i move around a bunch |
| 01:16.19 | raevanmorlock | When you're starting a new project... do you usually sketch out everything first in a giant flowchart and then do the programming or dive right into the programming and create things as you need them? |
| 01:16.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | i was wondering if looting was just completely blocked when it was blacked out or what |
| 01:16.42 | Tem|Work | raevanmorlock, depends on the size of the project |
| 01:17.16 | Shirik | usually if the project is big enough, if I /don't/ draw it out first, I go off on tangents and end up a mile from where I should be |
| 01:17.30 | Shirik | ERDs help too |
| 01:17.54 | raevanmorlock | I hate trying to make them |
| 01:18.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge WobWork (n=WobWork@202-129-81-206.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:18.51 | raevanmorlock | I usually start with what I need and work backwards.. like I'm doing now. I need a sprite--so I'm starting from basic object.. then a translating one.. etc. But this method obviously doesn't work too well for me since I end up sitting here for 2 hours staring at the wall |
| 01:19.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (n=qw@173.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net) |
| 01:19.19 | raevanmorlock | whenever I hit a snag |
| 01:20.45 | raevanmorlock | But on the rare opportunity that I try to plan it out ahead of time.. I end up having 50 different thoughts come to mind and can't pick the order to write them down in...? Or something like that. |
| 01:21.10 | Tem|Work | I just have a whiteboard in my room |
| 01:21.20 | Tem|Work | so I get ideas and sketch them out there |
| 01:21.25 | Tem|Work | they don't stay written very long |
| 01:21.37 | Tem|Work | just long enough for me to cement how they're supposed to work |
| 01:21.58 | raevanmorlock | I tried that once.. didn't work too well for me and then my mom stole it |
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| 01:33.25 | WobWork | Is that 15%of the bill? |
| 01:34.17 | raevanmorlock | meh? |
| 01:35.33 | Iriel | Isn't 18% the new 15% ? |
| 01:36.14 | raevanmorlock | 18% can't be the new 15%.. it's too hard to do in your head. |
| 01:37.47 | WobWork | it's easy |
| 01:37.58 | WobWork | take off 10% of the bill |
| 01:38.05 | WobWork | take that number |
| 01:38.08 | WobWork | divide by 10 |
| 01:38.12 | WobWork | multiply by 2 |
| 01:38.37 | WobWork | Or just leave 20% tips |
| 01:39.13 | raevanmorlock | 20% rounded down! |
| 01:40.11 | Gnarfoz_ | I find tips of a pre-defined percentage to be a kind of oxymoron |
| 01:40.42 | WobWork | You'd prefer to tip as you feel they deserve? |
| 01:41.04 | WobWork | Well, the Americans have pretty well redefined the concept of 'tipping' =P |
| 01:41.10 | Gnarfoz_ | they have, indeed. |
| 01:41.25 | WobWork | It's now the responsibility of the customer to pay the employee, not the employer =P |
| 01:43.30 | raevanmorlock | I usually estimate what the tip should be and then pick a number I feel the person deserves and I'm comfortable giving. |
| 01:43.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bejitt (n=Bejitt@adsl-152-85-174.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:44.01 | raevanmorlock | Someone in #perl said game programming isn't a real job =\ |
| 01:44.25 | Gnarfoz_ | blasphemy |
| 01:44.49 | Bejitt | and perl isnt a real language ;x |
| 01:45.27 | raevanmorlock | I like Perl |
| 01:45.33 | cladhaire | tax here used to be 7.25%.. so double the tax was a perfect tip baseline =) |
| 01:46.09 | cladhaire | to resurrect that conversation ;-) |
| 01:46.41 | raevanmorlock | you can't just go resurrecting things all willy-nilly like |
| 01:46.45 | cladhaire | i'm a priest |
| 01:46.46 | cladhaire | and a druid |
| 01:46.49 | cladhaire | i can res whenever i want =) |
| 01:46.53 | raevanmorlock | ha |
| 01:47.06 | raevanmorlock | res my brain |
| 01:47.57 | cladhaire | anyone have a paper for me to cite, which proves that a programming-first curriculum has a number of inherent difficulties, namely what language to choose |
| 01:48.03 | raevanmorlock | It's really bugging me... I wanna be a game programmer, but I've never programmed anywhere near 40 hours/wk. And now my brain farted and died. |
| 01:48.36 | raevanmorlock | I don't understand the question |
| 01:49.00 | cladhaire | it was more rhetorical than anything |
| 01:49.05 | raevanmorlock | Does http://www.sigcse.org/cc2001/cs-introductory-courses.html help? |
| 01:49.09 | cladhaire | unless someone has an answer |
| 01:49.16 | cladhaire | ha |
| 01:49.20 | cladhaire | cc2001 is the basis for all of this =) |
| 01:49.38 | raevanmorlock | I don't know what that is.. I just googled: http://www.google.com/search?q=proves+that+a+programming%2Dfirst+curriculum+has+a+number+of+inherent+difficulties&hl=en&sourceid=gd&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2006-42,GGLD:en |
| 01:49.50 | cladhaire | hahahaha |
| 01:49.54 | cladhaire | yay for google-du |
| 01:49.59 | cladhaire | s/-du/-fu/ |
| 01:50.08 | cladhaire | ~google-fu |
| 01:50.12 | purl | methinks google-fu is the ability to find absolutely anything with a single google query |
| 01:50.17 | cladhaire | ;-) |
| 01:50.20 | raevanmorlock | ha |
| 01:51.04 | raevanmorlock | my brain is so dead.. i think I could be having sex right now and not know what's going on. |
| 01:51.06 | raevanmorlock | I should do something. |
| 01:51.17 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:51.29 | cladhaire | write the fibonacci sequence using a metatable |
| 01:51.33 | cladhaire | that always wakes me up =) |
| 01:51.52 | raevanmorlock | but you'd never finish |
| 01:52.03 | raevanmorlock | And I don't remember what a meta table is |
| 01:52.10 | cladhaire | you could calculate it up to whatever point you'd like tho |
| 01:52.12 | raevanmorlock | a table that describes a table... I've only seen that in LUA |
| 01:52.21 | raevanmorlock | ok... 1.. I'm done |
| 01:53.00 | raevanmorlock | 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 26 39 65 |
| 01:53.09 | Shirik | I know it in hex, sadly |
| 01:53.12 | raevanmorlock | putt putt.. 104 |
| 01:53.17 | Shirik | 1 1 2 3 5 8 d, 15 |
| 01:53.34 | raevanmorlock | d,? |
| 01:53.40 | Shirik | d * |
| 01:53.49 | cladhaire | d is my favorite number |
| 01:53.54 | Shirik | I've spent the last month working on the fibonacci sequence |
| 01:53.57 | Shirik | I don't want to work on it more >< |
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| 01:54.01 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 01:54.07 | Shirik | implementing it in every way possible on a dragon12 board |
| 01:54.07 | raevanmorlock | what were you doing with it? |
| 01:54.14 | raevanmorlock | oh |
| 01:54.46 | raevanmorlock | more ASM stuff? |
| 01:54.58 | Shirik | that's actually what you saw earlier |
| 01:55.12 | raevanmorlock | LED digit 2! |
| 01:55.12 | Shirik | displaying one of the digits on a led |
| 01:55.32 | raevanmorlock | what're you using the sequence for? |
| 01:55.39 | Shirik | because I was told to |
| 01:55.47 | raevanmorlock | lol.. but to do what? |
| 01:55.52 | Shirik | to test my knowledge |
| 01:55.54 | Shirik | that's about it |
| 01:55.55 | raevanmorlock | is there a practical application of it? |
| 01:56.02 | Shirik | oh there are tons of practical applications |
| 01:56.04 | Shirik | why else would it exist |
| 01:56.19 | raevanmorlock | because it's neat and fits in well with umm... that class I learned it in |
| 01:56.23 | raevanmorlock | discrete math.. or something |
| 01:56.34 | Shirik | ah yes, discrete structures |
| 01:56.35 | Shirik | fun class |
| 01:56.44 | raevanmorlock | it's like pi.. totally useless =) |
| 01:56.57 | raevanmorlock | unless you want to do something involving a circle |
| 01:57.01 | Shirik | oh? |
| 01:57.04 | Shirik | that's actually very wrong |
| 01:57.08 | raevanmorlock | or coordinates |
| 01:57.12 | Shirik | e^(pi*i) == -1 |
| 01:57.15 | raevanmorlock | I know... I was umm... bullshitting.. I think |
| 01:57.17 | Shirik | does that have anything to do with a circle? |
| 01:57.43 | raevanmorlock | and bingo was his name-o |
| 01:57.57 | Shirik | what about our addon that's going to tell you current pitch in flight |
| 01:57.59 | raevanmorlock | for all I know? It might. |
| 01:58.03 | Nom- | WOOT |
| 01:58.04 | Shirik | that relies on pi :P |
| 01:58.19 | Nom- | The chinese have found a way to impliment RFC1149 and RFC2549 ! |
| 01:58.20 | raevanmorlock | so what's a good application of the Fib? |
| 01:58.23 | Shirik | well I guess that's because an angle is part of a circle |
| 01:58.25 | Shirik | hell if I know |
| 01:58.30 | Shirik | but I know I've seen it used before |
| 01:58.39 | Shirik | oh god I see where this is going Nom |
| 01:58.43 | Shirik | you talking about the pidgeon thing? |
| 01:59.06 | Nom- | RFC 1149 - A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers |
| 01:59.13 | Shirik | yeah |
| 01:59.24 | raevanmorlock | pidgeon messengers? |
| 01:59.25 | Nom- | RFC 2549 - IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service |
| 01:59.33 | Shirik | you know that's been implemented before? |
| 01:59.38 | raevanmorlock | that's.. weird |
| 01:59.52 | Nom- | The chinese have found a way to impliemnt 2549 |
| 01:59.55 | Gnarfoz_ | lol |
| 01:59.58 | Nom- | 1149 was too unreliable |
| 02:00.04 | zenzelezz | so... this news story says "Two thirds of the homeless are men, 16% are women"... what are the remaining 15%? |
| 02:00.20 | raevanmorlock | aminals |
| 02:00.25 | Nom- | Trannies. |
| 02:00.41 | Cairenn | Kolth: sorry 'bout that, I was right in the process of shutting that system down and coming home, hope it didn't come across as incredibly rude |
| 02:00.43 | raevanmorlock | ITs! |
| 02:01.10 | Shirik | PING 10.0.3.1 (10.0.3.1): 56 data bytes |
| 02:01.10 | Shirik | 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms |
| 02:01.10 | Shirik | 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=3211900.8 ms |
| 02:01.10 | Shirik | 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=5124922.8 ms |
| 02:01.11 | Shirik | 64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=6388671.9 ms |
| 02:01.13 | Shirik | see? |
| 02:01.16 | Shirik | those were from RFC1149 |
| 02:01.19 | hatado | says that ChardisplayForm is nil buut it says function Char_Show() |
| 02:01.21 | hatado | wait |
| 02:01.22 | hatado | umm |
| 02:01.29 | hatado | function Char_Show() |
| 02:01.29 | hatado | ChardisplayForm:Show(); |
| 02:01.41 | hatado | end |
| 02:01.43 | Nom- | See? |
| 02:01.43 | Shirik | http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/pinglogg.txt |
| 02:01.48 | Nom- | They list icmp_seq=3 |
| 02:01.55 | Nom- | s/list/lost/ |
| 02:02.02 | Shirik | 9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss |
| 02:02.09 | Nom- | Even worse! |
| 02:02.24 | Nom- | RFC2549 is more reliable |
| 02:02.55 | Nom- | http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/02/27/china.pigeon.reut/index.html |
| 02:03.27 | Shirik | wait hang on |
| 02:04.32 | Shirik | RFC2549 specifies frequent flier miles? |
| 02:04.33 | raevanmorlock | 1418: 1+4+18 = 23, 14+1+8 = 23, 14+18 = 32 (23 reversed) |
| 02:04.57 | raevanmorlock | 1319: 1+3+19 = 23, 13+1+9 = 23, 13+19 = 32 (23 reversed) |
| 02:06.15 | Gnarfoz_ | in some way or another, you'll always be able to make every number have something to do with 23 oO |
| 02:06.33 | raevanmorlock | 1020 doesn't |
| 02:06.41 | Gnarfoz_ | 'course |
| 02:06.57 | Gnarfoz_ | it contains a 20, and the sum of the non-zero digits is 3, 20+3 = 23 |
| 02:07.18 | raevanmorlock | fine.. -97167 |
| 02:07.23 | Gnarfoz_ | fuck you |
| 02:07.24 | Gnarfoz_ | :p |
| 02:07.26 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 02:07.54 | Shirik | erm |
| 02:08.06 | Shirik | 9-7 = 2, 1*(6+7) = 3 --> 23 |
| 02:08.07 | Shirik | ? |
| 02:08.19 | raevanmorlock | you suck |
| 02:08.29 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 02:08.38 | raevanmorlock | excedt.. how's that second part work again? |
| 02:08.40 | Shirik | or better yet |
| 02:08.44 | raevanmorlock | 6+7 = 3? |
| 02:09.34 | Shirik | oops |
| 02:09.51 | Shirik | I duno I have a headache >< |
| 02:10.06 | raevanmorlock | they're 13.. but you can't make an easy translation of 2 and 13 to get 23 |
| 02:10.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andune (n=morganm@cpe-66-27-91-184.san.res.rr.com) |
| 02:10.56 | Shirik | HA! |
| 02:11.08 | raevanmorlock | AH! |
| 02:11.37 | Shirik | ((7-6)+1)*7+9 |
| 02:11.43 | Shirik | 2*7+9 |
| 02:11.46 | Shirik | 14+9 = 23 |
| 02:12.16 | raevanmorlock | they're out of order |
| 02:12.21 | Shirik | ok |
| 02:12.28 | raevanmorlock | That was rather impressive though |
| 02:12.34 | Shirik | 9+(7-1+6)*7 |
| 02:12.35 | Shirik | happy? |
| 02:13.07 | raevanmorlock | that's 93 |
| 02:13.17 | Shirik | erm... no it's not |
| 02:13.25 | Shirik | wait yeah it is |
| 02:13.27 | Shirik | grr |
| 02:13.32 | Shirik | I meant 7+1-6 |
| 02:13.46 | raevanmorlock | very nice |
| 02:13.48 | raevanmorlock | now do 0 |
| 02:13.52 | Shirik | I used to play a lot of challenge 24 |
| 02:14.03 | Cide | 0/0 = 23 |
| 02:14.08 | Shirik | you get 4 numbers, gotta make them equal 24 using nothing but +, -, / and * |
| 02:14.10 | raevanmorlock | That's invalid! |
| 02:14.10 | Cide | proof: multiply with 0 on both sides |
| 02:14.25 | Shirik | 0+0 = 23... proof: |
| 02:14.29 | Shirik | here I'll pastey it |
| 02:14.31 | Shirik | but I can prove it |
| 02:14.46 | raevanmorlock | huh? |
| 02:15.07 | bleetah | 2+2=5 ... for large values of 2 |
| 02:15.31 | raevanmorlock | you guys are buturing math |
| 02:15.40 | raevanmorlock | buture? That doesn't look right |
| 02:15.44 | raevanmorlock | bucher! |
| 02:15.50 | raevanmorlock | You guys are buchering math. |
| 02:16.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | butcher |
| 02:16.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | :O |
| 02:16.07 | raevanmorlock | buTcher! |
| 02:16.09 | raevanmorlock | That's what I said |
| 02:16.18 | Cide | in your head, maybe! |
| 02:16.27 | Nom- | 1 + 1 = Window |
| 02:16.28 | raevanmorlock | your eyes are broked |
| 02:16.29 | Nom- | >< |
| 02:17.29 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/7393 |
| 02:18.11 | Cide | a^2 - b^2 = 0 |
| 02:18.17 | Cide | a - b = 0 |
| 02:18.23 | Cide | division by (a-b) = division by zero |
| 02:18.25 | Shirik | shhh |
| 02:18.27 | Shirik | don't tell him! |
| 02:18.41 | Cide | they're all based on the same thing! |
| 02:18.45 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 02:19.04 | raevanmorlock | that doesn't prove that 0 = 23 |
| 02:19.11 | Shirik | sure it does |
| 02:19.12 | Cide | it proves the same thing mine did |
| 02:19.15 | Cide | 0/0 = 23! |
| 02:19.17 | Shirik | if 1=2, and 2=3, and 3=4 |
| 02:19.28 | raevanmorlock | oh.. because all numbers are equal to each other |
| 02:19.28 | Shirik | continue on such that 22=23 |
| 02:19.31 | Shirik | yes |
| 02:19.38 | raevanmorlock | clever |
| 02:19.58 | Shirik | I can also prove the population of the universe is zero |
| 02:19.59 | raevanmorlock | but I don't think that you can just ignore the division by 0 thing like that, Cide |
| 02:20.08 | Cide | sure you can ;) |
| 02:20.24 | Shirik | http://www.rage3d.com/board/archive/index.php?t-22044.html |
| 02:20.27 | raevanmorlock | And there's probably something wrong with Shirik's math too |
| 02:20.35 | Cide | same thing as mine; division by zero |
| 02:20.41 | Cide | it solves a lot of fun things! |
| 02:20.44 | Shirik | Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, beautiful book |
| 02:20.56 | Nom- | You can prove anything if you start with a faulty assumption |
| 02:21.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-71-227-151-230.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:21.27 | Shirik | proof that the population of the universe is zero doesn't have a faulty assumption |
| 02:21.28 | raevanmorlock | If we're figments of someone's imagination--where does this person live? |
| 02:21.35 | Shirik | in an imaginary house |
| 02:21.48 | Cide | actually |
| 02:22.25 | raevanmorlock | it's assertion is faulty.... a finite number divided by an infinite number is an infinitely small number--not 0 |
| 02:22.34 | Shirik | no, by mathematical law |
| 02:22.41 | Cide | I'm almost positive population is defined as the population quantity in a finite area (rather obvious in real life, but I think it's explicitly defined that way) |
| 02:22.50 | Shirik | lim(x->0) (n/x) == 0, where n is an element of all real numbers |
| 02:23.13 | Shirik | er sorry |
| 02:23.14 | Shirik | x->inf. |
| 02:23.31 | Cide | divison by zero-maniac! |
| 02:23.47 | Shirik | =P |
| 02:23.53 | raevanmorlock | bah.. yeah.. there's some proof like that but, really, it'd never hit 0. It'd get closer and closer without ever touching it. |
| 02:24.34 | Nom- | Indeed |
| 02:24.39 | Nom- | lern2exponent |
| 02:24.40 | Shirik | actually I like this better |
| 02:24.41 | Cide | mathematically it "does" |
| 02:24.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@64.193.93.197) |
| 02:24.46 | Shirik | I completely agree with you. However according to Adam's proof, no matter how many other beings are out there.. the proof still works. Actually I think you could disprove that theorem if you said that life was constantly being created, therefore making the number of beings infinite. And since both the universe and the # of beings are both infinately expanding, the population of the universe is now undefined. (infinity/infinity = undef |
| 02:25.02 | Nom- | No, mathmatically 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is not 0 |
| 02:25.12 | Shirik | but actually... 0.999999... == 1 |
| 02:25.16 | Shirik | and I can prove that (legally) as well |
| 02:25.19 | Cide | take something relatively simple |
| 02:25.23 | Nom- | Only if you round |
| 02:25.26 | Shirik | no |
| 02:25.27 | Shirik | it is equivalent |
| 02:25.29 | Cide | say the definition of the derivative |
| 02:25.37 | Shirik | 0.99999.... = 3 * 0.333333... |
| 02:25.38 | Shirik | correct? |
| 02:25.49 | Nom- | and? |
| 02:25.53 | Shirik | 0.33333... = 1/3 |
| 02:25.56 | Shirik | 3 * 1/3 = 1 |
| 02:25.59 | Nom- | no |
| 02:26.07 | Cide | that's true |
| 02:26.31 | Shirik | I'm not kidding here... 0.99... is actually equivalent to 1 |
| 02:26.34 | Shirik | there's no flaw in that math |
| 02:26.35 | Cide | yes |
| 02:26.40 | bleetah | fatal flaw there, Shirik, is you can't *really* represent 1/3 as a decimal |
| 02:26.45 | Cide | exactly |
| 02:26.48 | Nom- | Precisely |
| 02:26.49 | Cide | you can't represent 1/3 in decimal |
| 02:26.59 | Shirik | thus you can't represent 0.9999... |
| 02:27.22 | Nom- | That's a faulty assertion :) |
| 02:27.27 | Cide | not really |
| 02:27.39 | Cide | and to illustrate that lim(x->0) can reach zero, see lim(h->0) (f(x+h) - f(x))/h |
| 02:27.46 | raevanmorlock | 0.222... = 2/9 0.999... = 9/9 = 1 |
| 02:27.51 | Nom- | In order to mae that assertion you have to assume that 0.33333333333333333333333 recurring is 1/2 |
| 02:27.53 | bleetah | mandelbrot would be amused |
| 02:27.54 | Nom- | err 1/3 |
| 02:27.55 | Shirik | http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55746.html |
| 02:28.02 | Mike-N-Go | Yup, can't you call those radicals? |
| 02:28.28 | Nom- | You can't make the assertion that 0.3333 = 1/3 |
| 02:28.38 | Nom- | Not in order to prove that 0.999 = 1 anyway |
| 02:28.42 | Shirik | I like the way he proved it |
| 02:28.43 | Cide | no, but you can make the assertion that 0.333.... = 1/3 |
| 02:28.45 | Shirik | read that post |
| 02:28.49 | Shirik | you can't make 0.9999.... |
| 02:29.00 | Shirik | don't think of it as "approaching 1" ... think of it as "leaving 1" |
| 02:29.34 | Shirik | "which means that to move from 1 to 0.99999..., you have to stay at 1." |
| 02:29.49 | Mike-N-Go | Or, think of it as a nonterminating repeating decimal. |
| 02:30.00 | GomiNoSensei | 0.99999.. doesn't really mean anything |
| 02:30.05 | Kolth | Can anyone help me out in figuring out how Hit Rating effects melee/ranged damage? |
| 02:30.08 | GomiNoSensei | 0.33333... does |
| 02:30.15 | Shirik | Kolth: what do you mean? |
| 02:30.16 | raevanmorlock | Kolth: We're busy :) |
| 02:30.18 | Shirik | please ignore the math |
| 02:30.21 | Shirik | and ask your question |
| 02:30.22 | Kolth | lawl raevanmorlock. |
| 02:30.25 | Cide | Kolth: hit rating affects hit% |
| 02:30.28 | Nom- | Yeah the thing is |
| 02:30.37 | Kolth | Cide: Yeah. But do you know the formula? |
| 02:30.48 | Shirik | 10 HR = 1% to hit same-level-mob |
| 02:30.53 | Kolth | I'm curious about how Racials effect damage. |
| 02:31.00 | Nom- | The ONLY Way that 0.99999.... can = 1 is if you round |
| 02:31.05 | Cide | no, Nom- |
| 02:31.07 | Nom- | You HAVE to round at some point in order to get to 1 |
| 02:31.13 | GomiNoSensei | ratingno, 0.9 repeating is one |
| 02:31.17 | GomiNoSensei | er |
| 02:31.20 | GomiNoSensei | hehe |
| 02:31.22 | Cide | 15.8 hit rating = 1% hit, Kolth |
| 02:31.24 | Kolth | How about Weapon Skill vs. Hit Rating? |
| 02:31.25 | Cide | at 7- |
| 02:31.29 | Cide | 70 |
| 02:31.32 | Shirik | wince when? I thought it was 10 |
| 02:31.37 | Cide | depends on level |
| 02:31.37 | Shirik | s/wince/since |
| 02:31.39 | raevanmorlock | I think practical math requires some degree of rounding in certain situations.. so mathematical proofs and such are devised to be practical and take that into account |
| 02:31.40 | Shirik | gah |
| 02:31.46 | Cide | it's 10 at 60 |
| 02:32.11 | Cide | no, 0.999... really is 1 |
| 02:32.12 | GomiNoSensei | .999999... is a meaningless construct, almost an imaginry number, it's the equivalent of the fraction 6/9, it is there, but it's only useable as an internediary |
| 02:32.22 | Shirik | Kolth: http://www.wowwiki.com/Combat_Rating_System |
| 02:32.27 | raevanmorlock | But that seems silly.. I could be any number I want for any answer of any math problem on my test and then prove to teh teacher why they're all right |
| 02:32.33 | GomiNoSensei | but one is not 0.999999... |
| 02:32.36 | Kolth | Sanks, Shirik |
| 02:32.41 | Shirik | yes it is GomiNoSensei |
| 02:32.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elessdy (n=no@207-118-219-148.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 02:32.52 | Mike-N-Go | There are multiple levels of infinity. |
| 02:32.56 | GomiNoSensei | heh |
| 02:33.03 | raevanmorlock | lol Mike-N-Go |
| 02:33.34 | Nom- | no...the problem is ... as said earlier...there's no decimal representation of 1/3 |
| 02:33.41 | Nom- | That doens't mean that 0.9999 .... isn't a valid number |
| 02:33.41 | GomiNoSensei | let's get existential now |
| 02:34.38 | Shirik | I'm.... sorry I ever brought this up |
| 02:34.39 | raevanmorlock | but really.. if we accept that 0/0 = 23 and any number equals every other number than I can go back to my grade school teacher adn get straight A's in math.... does that make sense? |
| 02:34.39 | GomiNoSensei | just means that 0.99999.. is incomplete, an abstraction |
| 02:34.39 | Shirik | 0/0 is not 23 actually |
| 02:34.39 | Shirik | it's "undefined" |
| 02:34.40 | Shirik | if you want proof |
| 02:34.41 | raevanmorlock | but he prooved that it was 23 |
| 02:34.41 | GomiNoSensei | a possible representation of 1, but not the best representation |
| 02:34.42 | Cide | ;) |
| 02:34.52 | raevanmorlock | supposedly the same way you proved that 1=2=3=4=5=...=n |
| 02:34.53 | Shirik | you can prove that 0/0 is undefined by taking the limit to it from different locations |
| 02:34.58 | Mike-N-Go | ILLEGAL 0/0 |
| 02:34.58 | Cide | my "proof" consists of... because 0 = 23*0, 0/0 = 23 |
| 02:34.59 | Shirik | given that they don't match, it is said to be undefined |
| 02:35.09 | Shirik | ok cide |
| 02:35.14 | Shirik | 0 = 24*0 |
| 02:35.18 | Shirik | does that mean 24=23? |
| 02:35.19 | Cide | Shirik: oh, I know :) |
| 02:35.36 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: You said 23 does equal 24 |
| 02:35.38 | GomiNoSensei | 0 is a sepcial case |
| 02:35.40 | raevanmorlock | Who's side are you on now? |
| 02:35.40 | Shirik | I was kidding >< |
| 02:35.46 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 02:35.48 | Nom- | pfft |
| 02:35.53 | Cide | oh, btw |
| 02:35.55 | GomiNoSensei | and i am a goot spellor |
| 02:35.58 | Cide | how do you represent 1/10 in binary? |
| 02:36.02 | Mike-N-Go | Or, you can do 0/0 on a graphing calculator.. |
| 02:36.08 | Shirik | there's several ways to represent it |
| 02:36.20 | Shirik | usually it's done by representing it like 1 * 10^-1 |
| 02:36.20 | Nom- | Usually as a float data type |
| 02:36.20 | bleetah | apart from the IQ level required for this discussion, the redundancy and circular discussion is worthy of Barrens Chat |
| 02:36.22 | raevanmorlock | Wouldn't a calculator just throw an error with division by 0? |
| 02:36.23 | GomiNoSensei | there are 10 kids of people, those who understand binary, and those who don't |
| 02:36.29 | GomiNoSensei | kinds |
| 02:36.47 | Shirik | because you can represent the 1 and the -1 |
| 02:36.52 | Shirik | the 10 power is implied |
| 02:37.03 | raevanmorlock | GomiNoSensei: My friend told me that a few years ago... took me awhile to get it and I laughed even longer |
| 02:37.14 | Shirik | so you reserve a set of bits for the "value" and then a set of bits for the "exponent" |
| 02:37.14 | Shirik | and you can say 1 * 10^-1 |
| 02:37.18 | Shirik | which thus equals 1/10 |
| 02:37.30 | Nom- | Ok, well you can't represent anything other than whole numbers in binary |
| 02:37.35 | GomiNoSensei | i was a m,ath nerd when i heard that one, got it right away |
| 02:37.40 | Cide | you can |
| 02:37.43 | Shirik | 2.43, for example, would be represented by 243 and 100, which shows 243 * 10^-2 |
| 02:37.56 | Cide | if you can represent them as a fraction of two numbers |
| 02:38.04 | Cide | well |
| 02:38.06 | Mike-N-Go | You can also do 1^(1/2) witch is the same as the square root of 1 |
| 02:38.10 | raevanmorlock | GomiNoSensei: Was? =P |
| 02:38.21 | Nom- | You can store it as a whole number and then store a factor seperately |
| 02:38.31 | GomiNoSensei | been a long time, i've rotted my brain with WoW, and pacman |
| 02:38.33 | Cide | Mike-N-Go: kind of an interesting way to represent one |
| 02:38.37 | raevanmorlock | Nice! |
| 02:38.42 | Cide | the point I was trying to make, however |
| 02:38.50 | Shirik | http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Floating-Point-Concepts.html#Floating-Point-Concepts |
| 02:38.52 | raevanmorlock | None of my friends understand binary so I can't pass the joke on =\ |
| 02:38.56 | Shirik | the same concept I was using |
| 02:39.03 | Cide | is that you can't represent 1/10 in base 2 without rewriting it into something else (see Shirik's example) |
| 02:39.06 | GomiNoSensei | yeah, you can't really explain it |
| 02:39.10 | Nom- | IGNORING the factor information 0.1 = 1 in binary |
| 02:39.19 | raevanmorlock | I think this math conversation has gone way over my head |
| 02:39.33 | Mike-N-Go | Yes, love the "There are 10 types of people.. those who understand binary and those who don't" lol |
| 02:39.39 | Shirik | it's what you get when you sit in #wowi-lounge |
| 02:39.42 | Mike-N-Go | How about #Math |
| 02:39.46 | raevanmorlock | let me know what you guys decide.. I'm gonna go do dishes |
| 02:39.47 | Shirik | not going there |
| 02:39.59 | Mike-N-Go | What was the original question? |
| 02:40.06 | Shirik | does 2=1? |
| 02:40.16 | Mike-N-Go | Nope. |
| 02:40.18 | Nom- | But there isn't a way to represent a fraction in binary...how computers do it is to store factor information along side the normal 8 or 16-bit binary number |
| 02:40.21 | Shirik | I forget |
| 02:40.24 | Mike-N-Go | What is the problem giving problem? |
| 02:40.27 | Shirik | um |
| 02:40.31 | Shirik | I think it had something to do with 23 |
| 02:40.41 | Nom- | So there'd be a 7 or 15 bit factor along with a 15 or more bit integer |
| 02:40.42 | raevanmorlock | The question was if 0.999... equals 1 -- or if it's just a close approximation. |
| 02:40.51 | Shirik | that's something that arose out of the question :P |
| 02:40.52 | Nom- | which is why a float is 4 bytes of memory |
| 02:41.09 | raevanmorlock | and then people started talking about binary and floats and I stopped paying attention |
| 02:41.33 | Mike-N-Go | So, who is right =] |
| 02:42.07 | GomiNoSensei | lost me at limits |
| 02:42.07 | Shirik | everyone |
| 02:42.18 | GomiNoSensei | i vaguely remember the concept, but... |
| 02:42.37 | Shirik | the real question is |
| 02:42.37 | Elessdy | i need advice. i want Thick Hide, but i'm not sure what to take points out of. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZxGMsfroeuioVxhz |
| 02:42.46 | Shirik | what if we started using a power of 3 for everything, instead of binary! |
| 02:42.47 | raevanmorlock | You guys were rabidly debating this a minute ago adn now you've forgotten what you were all talking about? |
| 02:42.49 | Cide | Elessdy: why take out points? just level! |
| 02:42.56 | GomiNoSensei | heh |
| 02:43.01 | Elessdy | can't go past 70, big boy |
| 02:43.09 | Shirik | we could start using 0V, 2.5V, and 5V |
| 02:43.13 | Mike-N-Go | Well.. does (0.99999...)/(0.99999...) = 1? |
| 02:43.13 | Cide | sure you can.. there are just some technical difficulties |
| 02:43.13 | Shirik | instead of just 0V and 5V |
| 02:43.22 | Shirik | 1/1 = 1 so yes |
| 02:43.22 | Cide | since 1/1 = 1, yes |
| 02:43.25 | Cide | damn you, Shirik |
| 02:43.26 | Shirik | lol |
| 02:43.26 | Nom- | See from that page linked earlier this sums it up |
| 02:43.27 | Nom- | When you think of 0.999... as being 'a little below 1', it's because |
| 02:43.27 | Nom- | in your mind, you've stopped expanding it; that is, instead of |
| 02:43.42 | Nom- | My mind doesn't think that way...my mind knows that it never ends |
| 02:43.51 | Shirik | I guarantee you |
| 02:43.58 | Nom- | I chose to see it as that you can't say that 0.999... = 1 unless you stop expanding it |
| 02:44.08 | Shirik | in which case it's not 0.9999 |
| 02:44.09 | Cide | you can't express 0.999... in terms of a finite number of nines :) |
| 02:44.10 | Shirik | .. |
| 02:44.12 | Mike-N-Go | Q: Can you count to infinity? |
| 02:44.17 | Shirik | nope |
| 02:44.17 | raevanmorlock | Nom-: yeah... I don't see it as ever ending either |
| 02:44.20 | Shirik | well |
| 02:44.22 | Shirik | you can try |
| 02:44.25 | Shirik | you'll probably die first |
| 02:44.25 | Mike-N-Go | Q: How long does .999... reppeat? |
| 02:44.36 | Mike-N-Go | repeat* |
| 02:44.40 | Mike-N-Go | To infinity |
| 02:44.46 | Shirik | Using Cide's theorem |
| 02:44.48 | raevanmorlock | you'll probably die first.. that's hilarious |
| 02:44.52 | Shirik | 0*.999999... = 0 |
| 02:44.57 | Shirik | and 0*1 = 0 |
| 02:44.59 | Nom- | print '0.9'; while(1){ print '9'; } |
| 02:45.01 | Shirik | therefore .99999... == 1 |
| 02:45.01 | Nom- | there you go |
| 02:45.01 | Cide | haha |
| 02:45.16 | Cide | clearly my theorem is flawless |
| 02:45.37 | Cide | Nom-: you won't even reach 10^(10^100) nines! |
| 02:45.39 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: 0*2490284 = 0 ... does 2490284 = 1 also? |
| 02:45.41 | GomiNoSensei | how bout i type 0.999999999999999 with enuff 9's that mirc cuts it off? |
| 02:45.48 | Shirik | yes |
| 02:45.58 | raevanmorlock | no it doesn't |
| 02:46.00 | GomiNoSensei | does infinity care if I tried? |
| 02:46.04 | GomiNoSensei | hehe |
| 02:46.05 | raevanmorlock | I'd rather have 2490284 dollars than 1 |
| 02:46.06 | Shirik | Cide's theorem proves it |
| 02:46.11 | Cide | infinity will give you a hug if you reach it |
| 02:46.11 | Shirik | well I only have 1 dollar |
| 02:46.16 | Shirik | so... I have 2490284 dollars |
| 02:46.21 | GomiNoSensei | no, you have 3/3 dollars |
| 02:46.21 | Cide | yep! |
| 02:46.45 | raevanmorlock | Cide's theorem (I must it, but it) sucks |
| 02:46.47 | bleetah | ∞ |
| 02:46.56 | GomiNoSensei | or $0.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 |
| 02:47.09 | Cide | how about this one |
| 02:47.12 | raevanmorlock | you need more 9s |
| 02:47.18 | GomiNoSensei | i know |
| 02:47.30 | GomiNoSensei | there aren't enuff 9's to properly express it |
| 02:47.32 | raevanmorlock | must = missed |
| 02:47.44 | Cide | if a^x = b^x, a = b.. therefore, 2490284 = 1 for x = 0 |
| 02:47.51 | Nom- | When you finally come to grips with the fact there's no way to represent 0.99999.... then you'll realise that's why humans assume it's 1 |
| 02:47.55 | Mike-N-Go | http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html |
| 02:48.10 | Cide | no |
| 02:48.15 | Cide | that's why humans assume it's NOT 1 |
| 02:48.23 | Cide | it is mathematically equal to 1 |
| 02:48.28 | raevanmorlock | Cide: That's wrong then... it should be if a^x = b^x, a = b for all values of x != 0 |
| 02:48.36 | Cide | raevanmorlock: shhhh :) |
| 02:49.06 | GomiNoSensei | ZERO IS SPECIAL! |
| 02:49.11 | GomiNoSensei | ME AM SPECIAL TOOO! |
| 02:49.12 | raevanmorlock | lol yeah it is |
| 02:49.21 | GomiNoSensei | DONUT DIVIDE ME BY ME! |
| 02:49.29 | Cide | fine |
| 02:49.46 | Cide | I can multiply instead if you want! |
| 02:50.03 | raevanmorlock | You can do whatever you want.. it's gonna be wrong if it doesn't have a qualifier |
| 02:50.04 | GomiNoSensei | i'll take care of that, but that'll be a special equation |
| 02:50.26 | Shirik | ow |
| 02:50.33 | Shirik | I've never seen 2/7 + 5/7 |
| 02:50.38 | Shirik | but it continues to prove my point that 0.99999 = 1 |
| 02:50.44 | Mike-N-Go | Q: What are 1 and 0, is either prime or composite? |
| 02:50.50 | Shirik | they aren't either |
| 02:50.54 | GomiNoSensei | me by her = ?? assuming that her exists |
| 02:51.04 | Shirik | the definition of prime is such that it must be an element of I >= 2 |
| 02:51.16 | Shirik | and composite is the inverse of prime where the universal set U is I > 2 |
| 02:51.23 | Mike-N-Go | What are they then? |
| 02:51.25 | bleetah | 0.9999 != 1, 'coz 0.9999 * 1000 != 1000 |
| 02:51.32 | Shirik | I just went over this in discrete structures don't try to go crazy with this on me :P |
| 02:51.36 | Shirik | they are neither |
| 02:51.39 | bleetah | barrens chat makes more sense |
| 02:51.41 | Shirik | they are outside the universal set |
| 02:51.50 | raevanmorlock | 2/7+5/7 = 1 .. not 0.999... |
| 02:52.00 | Cide | 0.999.... = 1 |
| 02:52.03 | GomiNoSensei | there'd be more foul language in barrens |
| 02:52.08 | Cide | therefore, 2/7+5/7 = 0.9999.... ;) |
| 02:52.12 | raevanmorlock | fuck you =P |
| 02:52.18 | Cide | but honestly, it is equal to 1 |
| 02:52.20 | GomiNoSensei | fuck YOU NUB! |
| 02:52.20 | raevanmorlock | 0.999... != 1 |
| 02:52.28 | GomiNoSensei | MATHNUB! |
| 02:52.38 | raevanmorlock | yo momma's a nub |
| 02:52.45 | Cide | raevanmorlock: what's 0.1^infinity? |
| 02:52.50 | Shirik | cide I have to say |
| 02:52.53 | raevanmorlock | it's undefined |
| 02:52.56 | GomiNoSensei | yo mama so fat... |
| 02:52.57 | Shirik | that website is great |
| 02:53.00 | GomiNoSensei | heh |
| 02:53.03 | Cide | no, it's not undefined |
| 02:53.12 | raevanmorlock | yes it is.. because infinity is undefined |
| 02:53.18 | Shirik | 0.1^infinity = 0 |
| 02:53.27 | raevanmorlock | that's a rounding error |
| 02:53.28 | Shirik | infinity is most definitely not undefined |
| 02:53.32 | Shirik | no it's not, it's calculus |
| 02:53.33 | Cide | if you were to expand it in your head, it would be 0.000....... |
| 02:53.49 | Shirik | there are no "errors" in calculus unless we see planes falling out of the sky |
| 02:54.09 | Cide | you might be inclined to think it's 0.0000.....1 |
| 02:54.09 | Shirik | every-day airplanes rely on calculus |
| 02:54.09 | Shirik | including division by zero |
| 02:54.09 | raevanmorlock | I've read about them doing that.. never actually seen it |
| 02:54.25 | Cide | 1 - 0.1^inf = 0.999....... = 1 |
| 02:54.26 | Mike-N-Go | Wow, I just did ".99999999999999999999999999999999" on my graphing calculator, it gives answer of "1" |
| 02:54.28 | GomiNoSensei | they don't rely on it, they rely on reality, they rely on calc to express it |
| 02:54.39 | Shirik | how do airplanes calculate their velocity? They calculate the change in distance over the change in time |
| 02:54.41 | raevanmorlock | Mike-N-Go: Yeah.. calculators round too |
| 02:54.43 | Shirik | which approaches 0/0 |
| 02:54.58 | Shirik | (f(x+h)-f(x))/h |
| 02:55.07 | Cide | lim(h->0) |
| 02:55.11 | Shirik | yeah that too |
| 02:55.12 | GomiNoSensei | math is not reality, math is an expression of reality |
| 02:55.12 | Cide | does that mean you divide by zero? no |
| 02:55.31 | GomiNoSensei | i vaguely remember imaginary numbers in electronics 12 |
| 02:55.31 | Nom- | We're all tanking one side of the fence |
| 02:55.35 | raevanmorlock | Let's say I have a system that expresses decimals to 5 digits.. 9/9 = 0.99999 .. then I have another that expresses it to 7 .. 9/9 = 0.9999999 -- are they the same? |
| 02:55.46 | Nom- | But what if it simultaneously IS and IS NOT 1 ? |
| 02:55.53 | Shirik | ... |
| 02:55.59 | Shirik | a number cannot be two numbers -_- |
| 02:55.59 | Cide | you can't express 1 as 0.999... in a finite amount of nines |
| 02:56.06 | GomiNoSensei | you can use a number divided by zero as an interndiary |
| 02:56.20 | Nom- | Sure it can...in Quantum mathematics |
| 02:56.21 | GomiNoSensei | or a specllchacker |
| 02:56.27 | GomiNoSensei | heh |
| 02:56.34 | GomiNoSensei | no i didn't mistype that on purpose |
| 02:57.11 | Shirik | raevanmorlock I have a question for you: assume that we have a function, f(x) = 2x |
| 02:57.26 | Shirik | now, calculate this: [f(x+h)-f(x)]/h |
| 02:57.30 | Shirik | where h approaches zero |
| 02:57.39 | raevanmorlock | Like... on my calculator.. I tpye "0.9" and get "0.9" .. then I do 0.9999.. then 0.99999999.. then 0.99999999999999999.. eventually, I'll hit enough 9s that it rounds to 1 because infinity can't be expressed. I think that's all we're debating over. |
| 02:57.47 | Shirik | it has a very real answer |
| 02:57.58 | Cide | let me guess....... 2? ;) |
| 02:57.58 | GomiNoSensei | i made that point a few times, in a few different ways |
| 02:58.09 | raevanmorlock | GomiNoSensei: Everybody has in many ways |
| 02:58.11 | Shirik | it is most definitely 2 |
| 02:58.12 | GomiNoSensei | heh |
| 02:58.15 | Nom- | That depends on the calculator, raevanmorlock |
| 02:58.23 | Mike-N-Go | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number |
| 02:58.26 | Shirik | thus, division by zero is not impossible, it's just something that needs to be worked around. |
| 02:58.31 | Nom- | If you put the function (1/3)*3 into a calculator it will always give you 1 |
| 02:58.32 | raevanmorlock | Nom-: Ok... so show me a calculator that can store an infinite number of decimal places =) |
| 02:58.33 | Cide | yep |
| 02:58.37 | Mike-N-Go | What set, or type, or numbers are we talking about? |
| 02:58.50 | GomiNoSensei | i'd assume real numbers |
| 02:58.51 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: I don't remember how to do that math |
| 02:58.52 | Nom- | BUT (1/3) and THEN * 3 = 0.99999999999999 |
| 02:58.52 | GomiNoSensei | hehe |
| 02:58.56 | Mike-N-Go | Natural, Integers, Rational, Real, Complex.. |
| 02:59.16 | Cide | (2(x+h) - 2x) / h --> (2x + 2x - 2x) / h ---> (2h)/h ---> 2 |
| 02:59.18 | GomiNoSensei | as opposed to unreal numbers |
| 02:59.19 | Cide | division by zero! |
| 02:59.21 | Cide | or not |
| 02:59.41 | GomiNoSensei | GomiNoSensei numbers |
| 02:59.45 | Nom- | In that case, the answer should be 1, but when calculated seperately, there's no way for a calculator to know that it should be 1 due to limited calculation power |
| 02:59.51 | GomiNoSensei | my system is based on pi |
| 02:59.54 | GomiNoSensei | mmm, pi |
| 02:59.58 | Shirik | meh, I just use d/dx(ax^n) = nax^(n-1) |
| 03:00.08 | Nom- | That's why I think it's a quantum equasion :) |
| 03:00.18 | Cide | sounds a bit more complex, Shirik |
| 03:00.20 | Nom- | 0.9999.... can exist on it's own, but it's also 1 in some cases |
| 03:00.21 | GomiNoSensei | mmmm, quantum pi |
| 03:00.33 | Nom- | So it both IS and ISN'T 1 at the same time |
| 03:00.33 | Mike-N-Go | I like apple π |
| 03:00.52 | Cide | clock is approaching 4am (or rather, 3:59:59.999....), time to sleep |
| 03:00.56 | GomiNoSensei | that looks like a cross between the euro and an accented I on my charset |
| 03:00.57 | Shirik | but d/dx(2x) = 2 --> a=2, n=1, nax^(n-1) = 1*2*x^0 = 2 |
| 03:01.07 | Mike-N-Go | Wow.. same value, 2 representations.. |
| 03:01.10 | Shirik | night :) |
| 03:01.21 | GomiNoSensei | math dreams |
| 03:01.25 | Shirik | are you trying to tell me |
| 03:01.28 | Shirik | that 1 is not equal to 1? |
| 03:01.36 | raevanmorlock | let's say you do 1/3 on your calculator and get 0.33333333333333333333333333333333 ... add more 3's to that and you still get 0.33333333333333333333333333333333 because it has to round at some point. Now saying 0.33333333333333333333333333333333 is the same as 0.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 is like saying 0.3 = 0.33 and we can plainly see that the latter is smaller |
| 03:01.45 | GomiNoSensei | for a certain definition of "1" |
| 03:01.55 | Cide | I don't think we should involve calculators in this |
| 03:01.55 | Nom- | pfft that doesn't work either Cide |
| 03:01.56 | Shirik | how can you have multiple definitions of 1 |
| 03:01.58 | GomiNoSensei | and a certain other defintion of "1" |
| 03:02.09 | Nom- | If you clock worked in decimals, then maybe, but it doesn't |
| 03:02.12 | Mike-N-Go | Rather, an infinity of representations, "1/1 = 1, 2/2 = 1, 3/3 = 1..." Therfore, "x/x = 1"! |
| 03:02.14 | Nom- | It's just 3:59:59 until it's 4:00:00 |
| 03:02.15 | Nom- | :P |
| 03:02.21 | Cide | because calculators use memory, and you can't store an infinite number of nines in memory ;) |
| 03:02.46 | Shirik | infinity is not a digital value |
| 03:02.51 | Shirik | you can't use a digital device to help you with it |
| 03:02.57 | raevanmorlock | you have to involve calculators because they're computers.... you're saying 0.9999... = 1 and that's calculus which is used and computed by computers in planes |
| 03:03.05 | Shirik | nonono |
| 03:03.07 | Mike-N-Go | Ok, where did I put the Abacus.. |
| 03:03.09 | Shirik | they do not do calculus |
| 03:03.13 | Nom- | Shirik: Unless it's a quantum computing device :P |
| 03:03.17 | Shirik | they approximate calculus |
| 03:03.35 | raevanmorlock | Right.. and I'm saying 0.9999999... is approximately 1 -- but they're not the same value |
| 03:03.37 | Cide | and they don't come infinitely close, either! |
| 03:03.39 | Shirik | a TI-89 could do calculus, but only because it does symbolic manipulation |
| 03:03.42 | Mike-N-Go | So, would not ".999.../.999... = 1"? |
| 03:03.51 | Shirik | which means it doesn't ever use numbers |
| 03:04.04 | raevanmorlock | Mike-N-Go: Yes |
| 03:04.07 | Nom- | Yes, Mike-N-Go, because you're dividing by the same number |
| 03:04.13 | Cide | 1/1 = 1 |
| 03:04.15 | Cide | win |
| 03:04.17 | Cide | night |
| 03:04.20 | Nom- | so? |
| 03:04.20 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 03:04.21 | Cide | have fun |
| 03:04.22 | Nom- | 0.5/0.5 = 1 |
| 03:04.26 | Nom- | That doesn't work :P |
| 03:04.37 | Kirkburn | What the hell have I stumbled upon? |
| 03:04.41 | raevanmorlock | x/x = 1, x > 1 |
| 03:04.46 | Shadowed | I wonder that too Kirkburn |
| 03:04.47 | Shirik | actualyl |
| 03:04.50 | Shirik | that would be x!=0 |
| 03:05.00 | Shirik | it's true for any value of x where x != 0 |
| 03:05.04 | raevanmorlock | yeah.. 0.5/0.5 does equal 1 damn you |
| 03:05.06 | Karrion | ooh fun, maths! |
| 03:05.15 | raevanmorlock | Nom- confused me |
| 03:05.16 | Shirik | we're trying to prove to them |
| 03:05.19 | Shirik | and they aren't accepting it |
| 03:05.20 | Nom- | any number divided by itself = 1 |
| 03:05.22 | Shirik | that 0.99999999999 repeating |
| 03:05.23 | Shirik | = 1 |
| 03:05.24 | Kirkburn | 0.99999... = 1 is soooooo last year |
| 03:05.28 | Cide | (except zero) |
| 03:05.29 | JoshBorke | wiping on pulls before pathaleon = the lose |
| 03:05.30 | Shirik | they won't accept it |
| 03:05.55 | raevanmorlock | because it's falsey |
| 03:05.56 | Nom- | ok, any non-0 number divided by itself = 1 :P |
| 03:06.10 | Nom- | 0.9999.... approximates to 1 |
| 03:06.12 | Nom- | *sigh* |
| 03:06.22 | Kirkburn | Look 0.33333 is 1/3 .... 0.3333 x 3 is 0.9999 and 1/3 x 3 is 1/1. Therefore 0.99999 = 1 |
| 03:06.25 | raevanmorlock | it approximates.. it doesn't equal... it's like == and === |
| 03:06.29 | Karrion | 0.999... = 1, it's true |
| 03:06.37 | raevanmorlock | 0.33333 is not 1/3 =P |
| 03:06.39 | Shirik | I told them that Kirkburn |
| 03:06.40 | Mike-N-Go | There are more numbers in the irrational set then there are in the rational set, both sets are infinite. |
| 03:06.42 | JoshBorke | Kirkburn: 0.333333 is NOT 1/3 =P |
| 03:06.45 | Nom- | Karrion: Only if you round at some point lol |
| 03:06.46 | Shirik | yes, it is |
| 03:06.52 | Shirik | for an infinite number of 3s |
| 03:07.04 | Shirik | or how about this definition then |
| 03:07.06 | Kirkburn | I can't write a bloody repeating point above the number ;) |
| 03:07.12 | Kirkburn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999... |
| 03:07.22 | JoshBorke | but 0.999 (repeating) is not 1 |
| 03:07.22 | Shirik | Take the value of x |
| 03:07.23 | Karrion | no, if you round at some point, it's approximate, if you have a literal infinite number of 9s, it's exactly equal |
| 03:07.26 | Kirkburn | Lists all the proofs |
| 03:07.28 | Shirik | where x = 0.999999 repeating |
| 03:07.28 | Shirik | ok? |
| 03:07.30 | Cide | Nom-: for 0.1^x = a, what's the highest value for x so that a > 0? |
| 03:07.32 | Shirik | 10x = 9.99999999999 repeating |
| 03:07.47 | Shirik | 10x - x must equal 9 |
| 03:07.50 | Shirik | which means that 9x = 9 |
| 03:07.53 | Shirik | therefore x = 1 |
| 03:08.14 | raevanmorlock | why does 10x - x = 9? |
| 03:08.23 | Shirik | because 9.999999999 - .99999999 = 9? |
| 03:08.28 | Mike-N-Go | Well.. ".111../.111.." is 1/9 |
| 03:08.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:08.55 | JoshBorke | how does 9x = 9+ |
| 03:09.01 | JoshBorke | hm |
| 03:09.02 | Mike-N-Go | ".555../.555.." is 5/9 |
| 03:09.03 | Shirik | I just answered that >.> |
| 03:09.07 | Karrion | shirk mistyped, it's 10x - x = 9x |
| 03:09.10 | Thunder_Child | this again? |
| 03:09.18 | Shirik | 10x - x = 9x = 9 |
| 03:09.21 | raevanmorlock | stop talking for a second! |
| 03:09.21 | Kirkburn | Essentially people are attempting to prove that 1 =/= 1 :) |
| 03:09.23 | Mike-N-Go | What is ".999.../.999..." ? |
| 03:09.28 | raevanmorlock | I'm trying to think |
| 03:09.29 | Mike-N-Go | 9/9 |
| 03:09.30 | Nom- | Or, you could argue that x can't be defined |
| 03:09.32 | Mike-N-Go | Therfore 1 |
| 03:09.39 | Thunder_Child | this was done on this channel maybe....1 month ago |
| 03:09.40 | Mike-N-Go | Therefore* |
| 03:09.47 | Shirik | It totally wasn't me >.> |
| 03:09.53 | Thunder_Child | after osme moronic post on the wow forums |
| 03:10.01 | Shirik | Look, this proves it: http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html |
| 03:10.01 | raevanmorlock | I think 10x - x = 1 |
| 03:10.03 | Kirkburn | I know! Everyone, go check out everyone else's equipment on the new Armory sites :) |
| 03:10.07 | Shirik | if you still can't believe this, then bam |
| 03:10.07 | Nom- | Mike-N-Go: As I said earlier, any number (other than 0) divided by itself is 1 |
| 03:10.31 | Nom- | ie. 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 = 1 |
| 03:10.34 | Karrion | and since 10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999 = 9, then 9x must = 9, therefore x = 1 |
| 03:10.40 | Nom- | So you can't use the divide by self as a proof |
| 03:10.57 | Cide | Nom-: surely there must be a defined value |
| 03:11.20 | Nom- | It's always possible for a variable to be undefineable |
| 03:11.24 | Karrion | armory doesn't work for me :-( |
| 03:11.33 | Karrion | I have encountered an error. |
| 03:11.36 | Nom- | x = 1 / 0 |
| 03:11.38 | Nom- | You can't define x |
| 03:11.45 | Cide | x is defined as infinity there |
| 03:11.52 | Kirkburn | EU one works - http://armory.wow-europe.com/? |
| 03:11.57 | Nom- | DNo, because initity isn't a definition |
| 03:11.59 | Nom- | It's a concept |
| 03:12.01 | Cide | a/0 = infinity for a != 0 (0/0, however, is undefined) |
| 03:12.06 | Cide | but the concept is very well defined |
| 03:12.09 | Kirkburn | This is my housemate's char - http://armory.wow-europe.com/?#character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonblight&n=Falynth :) |
| 03:12.32 | Kirkburn | Perhaps people will believe Blizz has competent web coders after this? :P |
| 03:13.21 | Nom- | Again, it's a concept |
| 03:13.29 | Nom- | It's not a value |
| 03:14.11 | Kirkburn | There's are many different infinities |
| 03:14.18 | Kirkburn | *There |
| 03:14.22 | Cide | there must be a highest value for 0.1^x so that it's not 0, since 0.1^9999 = 0.00....1 |
| 03:14.58 | Kirkburn | ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity#Mathematical_infinity ) |
| 03:15.48 | Cide | but if x approaches infinity, it becomes 0 |
| 03:16.14 | Cide | meh |
| 03:16.17 | Nom- | Ah well, i'm bored of playing devils advocate |
| 03:16.20 | Cide | I don't feel like going through this again |
| 03:16.25 | raevanmorlock | He kinda proves what I'm trying to say.. but maybe I'm not saying it the right way. He quotes "0.9 repeating is obviously less than 1" and asks "how much less?" Well.. infinitely less. I'll concede that 0.9 repeating == 1 but not that 0.9 repeating === 1 |
| 03:16.26 | Cide | I need sleep |
| 03:16.27 | Nom- | Let's find a new topic |
| 03:16.34 | bleetah | belly button fluff! |
| 03:16.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:16.50 | Shirik | um |
| 03:16.50 | Shirik | no |
| 03:16.58 | Cide | raevanmorlock: it is both == and === 1, however |
| 03:17.04 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: you need to consider the definition of equal |
| 03:17.10 | Shirik | go to sleep! |
| 03:17.11 | Cide | but anyway |
| 03:17.14 | Cide | yeah, off to bed now |
| 03:17.17 | Cide | screw you |
| 03:17.19 | raevanmorlock | haha |
| 03:17.20 | Shirik | =P |
| 03:17.23 | Nom- | lol |
| 03:17.24 | bleetah | nn cide |
| 03:17.28 | raevanmorlock | g'night |
| 03:17.34 | Nom- | i'm bored... 0.99999...9 != 0 0.999... = 1 |
| 03:17.36 | Karrion | one definition is that there is no number between the two values |
| 03:17.40 | Nom- | So let's change the topic damnit |
| 03:18.03 | Nom- | err 0.999...9 != 1 , 0.999... = 1 |
| 03:18.03 | Shirik | that's interesting definition there |
| 03:18.17 | Shirik | I love how Nom proves to us that 1 != 1 |
| 03:18.18 | Shirik | but anyway |
| 03:18.25 | Nom- | no |
| 03:18.29 | Shirik | let's start discussing how evil .NET is! |
| 03:18.33 | Nom- | 0.999...9 != 1 |
| 03:18.43 | Nom- | Because that series has an end |
| 03:18.51 | raevanmorlock | I like .Net..I just wish I had a good reason for what's so hard about allowing multiple inheritence |
| 03:18.51 | Shirik | oh |
| 03:18.57 | Shirik | .Net is evil. |
| 03:18.58 | Shirik | Petiod. |
| 03:19.01 | Shirik | Period* |
| 03:19.08 | Shirik | ok so now that we've finished that discussion |
| 03:19.09 | Shirik | new topic |
| 03:19.14 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 03:19.18 | bleetah | mmm coffeee |
| 03:19.33 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: on multiple inheritance: Say you have a class that inherits from, say, Dog and Cat. |
| 03:19.41 | Shirik | wtf |
| 03:19.55 | raevanmorlock | right right.. a catdog |
| 03:19.56 | Karrion | Dog and Cat both define a method talk(), which do different things |
| 03:20.10 | raevanmorlock | then which do you.. |
| 03:20.12 | raevanmorlock | yeah.. fucker |
| 03:20.15 | Nom- | The truth is, I used every rebuttal I could think of to keep that conversation going lol |
| 03:20.17 | Karrion | (Dog.talk() prints "woof", Cat.talk() prints "meow") |
| 03:20.29 | Nom- | If there's no defined end to the sequence of 9's then it's 1 |
| 03:20.32 | Nom- | If there is, then it's not 1 |
| 03:20.33 | Karrion | so yeah, what does Catdog.talk() print? |
| 03:20.40 | raevanmorlock | I hate you |
| 03:20.47 | Karrion | </3 |
| 03:20.48 | Shirik | SIGSEGV |
| 03:20.53 | Karrion | lol |
| 03:20.53 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 03:21.07 | Shirik | init 6 |
| 03:21.09 | Shirik | death |
| 03:21.15 | raevanmorlock | But that makes my job infinitely more complex |
| 03:21.43 | Karrion | Nah, it's definitely finitely more complex :-p |
| 03:21.51 | raevanmorlock | If I have 10 classes.. and 20 other classes that use different parts of the previous 10... I'm going to have the same function 100 different times |
| 03:22.10 | Shirik | like I said a few hours ago |
| 03:22.23 | Shirik | the only time I've ever needed multiple inheretance is when I was approaching the problem from the wrong angle |
| 03:22.25 | Karrion | If you have 10 classes and 20 other classes that use different parts... you need to rethink your inheritance heirarchy |
| 03:22.29 | raevanmorlock | no.. it's infinte.. because 1=2=3=4=5=...=infinity |
| 03:22.49 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: Yeah.. but you also said my angle was solid |
| 03:22.55 | Shirik | from what I could see |
| 03:22.59 | Shirik | I also have a very bad headache today :P |
| 03:23.12 | Shirik | I've been wrong before |
| 03:23.32 | Shirik | let's look at it this way |
| 03:23.41 | Shirik | you have a translation and a rotation |
| 03:23.46 | Shirik | correct? |
| 03:23.58 | raevanmorlock | I think my idea is solid... I suppose it's complex, so I suppose it'll have a complex solution and I just have to deal with that |
| 03:23.59 | Shirik | and you want something that translates AND rotates |
| 03:24.04 | raevanmorlock | correct |
| 03:24.13 | raevanmorlock | or just one.. or neither |
| 03:24.17 | Shirik | ok |
| 03:24.27 | Shirik | then do |
| 03:24.36 | raevanmorlock | I could certainly build a class that does everything and then not use parts of it.. |
| 03:24.47 | raevanmorlock | But that's more like hacking the problem than solving it |
| 03:24.52 | Shirik | class TranslatingObject; class RotationObject; |
| 03:24.59 | Shirik | class MyObject : public TranslatingObject; |
| 03:24.59 | Iriel | That's possibly your best bet for now |
| 03:25.08 | Shirik | class MyTranslatingAndRotatingObject : public RotationObject; |
| 03:25.17 | Shirik | er |
| 03:25.18 | Shirik | wait |
| 03:25.24 | Shirik | I think I just blew up my own mind |
| 03:25.25 | Iriel | 2 interfaces, one class implementing both, and only if you can gain something by doing a specialized implementation that does just one interface, do you do that |
| 03:25.30 | raevanmorlock | lol yeah you did |
| 03:25.41 | Shirik | but what I'm trying to say |
| 03:25.56 | Shirik | you don't need to inherit both.... a translation and rotation does not need to happen at the same time |
| 03:25.59 | Shirik | rotate... and then translate |
| 03:26.10 | Shirik | or translate then rotate |
| 03:26.17 | Shirik | it's the same effect |
| 03:26.34 | Nom- | LOL IDR is such a whacked currency |
| 03:26.39 | Karrion | Shirik: not necessarily, depends on where the rotation origin is |
| 03:26.44 | Shirik | ok true |
| 03:26.48 | Nom- | I've got 21000 IDR in my wallet...and it's not even enough to buy a Pie |
| 03:26.50 | Shirik | I'm assuming rotation origin of the center of the object |
| 03:26.52 | Iriel | It all depends what 'rotating' means |
| 03:26.57 | raevanmorlock | ya'll are talking to fast again |
| 03:26.58 | Karrion | lol true |
| 03:27.06 | Iriel | If you use the assumption Shirik did (which I also did) then it's fine both ways |
| 03:27.23 | Karrion | yeah |
| 03:27.30 | Karrion | just being pedantic ;-) |
| 03:27.36 | Shirik | pedantic? |
| 03:28.24 | JoshBorke | ie annoying |
| 03:28.26 | raevanmorlock | Let's see if I can rephrase my objective here... let's say the high-level classes are person, table, and dog... a person can sit, talk, and write.. a dog can talk and sit.. a table can sit |
| 03:28.29 | Iriel | Appropriate pedantry is a fine fine thing |
| 03:28.55 | raevanmorlock | so I'd have sit, talk, and write classes that they all inherit from and that can be mixed and matched however they're needed |
| 03:29.11 | Iriel | Well, Sitter, Talker, adn Writer would likely all be interfaces |
| 03:29.23 | raevanmorlock | Maybe I don't know what an interface is |
| 03:29.31 | Karrion | and Table, Dog, Person would implement them differently |
| 03:29.42 | Iriel | It's basically an abstract class with method signatures, but no implementations |
| 03:29.47 | raevanmorlock | Well.. assume they didn't implement them differently |
| 03:29.49 | Karrion | an interface _defines_ a method, without giving any implemenation |
| 03:29.51 | Shirik | it's a java thing; C++'s equivalent is an abstract class |
| 03:30.05 | Mike-N-Go | #Math .. just struck up a conversation about this =] |
| 03:30.14 | Karrion | Shirik: kind of, Java has abstract classes too |
| 03:30.23 | Shirik | I don't know enough about java >< |
| 03:30.33 | raevanmorlock | yeah I've done abstract classes in Java |
| 03:30.41 | Iriel | It's an abstract class with *NO* method definitions.. C++ and Java have the same 'abstract class' definition |
| 03:30.52 | raevanmorlock | And I see what you mean.. but say Person, Dog, and Table all talked, wrote, and sat teh same way |
| 03:31.07 | Karrion | interfaces have _no_ implementation, abstract classes have _some_ implementation; you can multiply inherit interfaces but not classes (abstract or otherwise) |
| 03:31.13 | Shirik | ok, iirc C++ doesn't have a way to force an abstract class to not have method definitions, though you can do that if you want |
| 03:31.27 | Iriel | Abstract classes dont HAVE to have SOME implementation tho, you have to be careful about that 8-) |
| 03:31.37 | Karrion | and I _believe_ C# follows Java on this |
| 03:31.53 | Karrion | Iriel: true |
| 03:32.05 | raevanmorlock | From what I've seen.. an inteface has no implementation, an abstract class can have some |
| 03:32.13 | raevanmorlock | in C# |
| 03:32.17 | Iriel | raevanmorlock: The tricky thing about general questions is that the answer is extremely dependent on the details |
| 03:32.47 | raevanmorlock | Well i started detailed and everyone got confused =P |
| 03:32.52 | Iriel | Suppose that sitting, talking, and writing had absolutely nothing in common with one another, then C++'s multiple inheritence model works really well for allowing you to write each one once, and merging them as needed |
| 03:33.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 03:33.13 | Iriel | Where it breaks down is when there's some shared state or shared functionality |
| 03:33.21 | Shirik | I've actually never bothered to find out what C++ does when you try to inherit two classes with the same method |
| 03:33.25 | Shirik | does anyone know or do I have to go test it >.> |
| 03:33.38 | Iriel | Shirik: IIRC it forces you to declare one at the 'intersection' |
| 03:33.45 | Iriel | But it's been YEARS since I had to know the answer to that |
| 03:34.06 | Shirik | I really have never played with multiple inheritance for a practical purpose so I guess I never had to find out... |
| 03:34.49 | Shirik | dear god Mike wtf did you do to #Math |
| 03:34.59 | Shirik | are they trying to prove that Infinity != Infinity? |
| 03:35.08 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 03:35.23 | Iriel | That shouldn't be too difficult for them, there's an infinite number of infinities |
| 03:35.52 | Mike-N-Go | Answer ever question that my mind has... indefinitely. |
| 03:36.28 | Iriel | Returning to raevanmorlock's dilemma, perhaps.. Here's how I've come to use interfaces and object inheritances.. |
| 03:36.45 | raevanmorlock | Okay.. I'll go for detailed. I'm making a 2D game engine that uses sprites. A sprite has a number of things it can do (translate, scale, rotate, etc). What I'm trying to do--practical or not--is allow the user of the game engine to specify which of those things the sprite can and cannot do without simply nullifying or setting to 0 the parameters that he doesn't wish to use. |
| 03:36.52 | Iriel | Interfaces say what COULD be done with an object, and how it should behave when those things are done (from a logical, kind of specification, sort of way) |
| 03:37.13 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: let me pastey up how I'd handle that |
| 03:37.43 | Karrion | (I'll be using Java syntax since I'm more familiar with it, but C# should be similar) |
| 03:37.43 | Iriel | raevanmorlock: What are you trying to achieve there though? |
| 03:38.07 | Iriel | Do you want to prevent the user from doing an otherwise-doable action on a sprite |
| 03:38.08 | raevanmorlock | Multiple inheritance seemed like a good idea because then each thing is self-contained.. TranslatingClass, RotatingClass, ScalingClass each handle their own code in as compact a matter. And then a user would simply do MySpiffyClass inherits <whatever> |
| 03:38.28 | Iriel | Or do you want to only carry the 'burden' of the functions the user needs to use |
| 03:38.29 | raevanmorlock | Karrion: Kay.. I'm decent in Java |
| 03:38.41 | raevanmorlock | Iriel: the burden thing |
| 03:39.03 | Iriel | Okay, so we're talking modern programming languages, so really it comes down to a memory issue |
| 03:39.05 | raevanmorlock | And partly... I just want to know if it's possible--or rather prove that it is |
| 03:39.12 | Iriel | for that case, anyway |
| 03:39.30 | Iriel | Right? |
| 03:40.12 | raevanmorlock | Well... I mean, I know I could package them all into one sprite and just ignore the things you don't need and it still won't be a burden on the user's memory or anything |
| 03:40.13 | raevanmorlock | s/sprite/class |
| 03:40.32 | Mike-N-Go | raevanmorlock: Is a descendent of BASIC! |
| 03:40.56 | Iriel | Let me ask another question, your RotatingObject, is that an object that has a rotational velocity, and rotates a bit each frame. And the methods allow you to set how fast (and in which direction) it rotates? |
| 03:41.17 | Iriel | Or is the goal just that a rotating object has a method that lets you rotate it at all |
| 03:41.59 | raevanmorlock | Iriel: Both, I suppose. You could give it a velocity and have it rotate that much each time the game updates or you could update it manually with a .rotate() method |
| 03:42.10 | Iriel | If it's the former then there may well be some value in separate implementations (since you dont want to carry around velocities you wont be using) |
| 03:42.44 | Iriel | If it's the latter, then it's more an issue of restriction, In that case I'd either just not use the rotate method, or have a base class that does all methods, but doesn't publicise any, and then implement objects that publicise the ones they want to expose |
| 03:44.15 | Karrion | http://wowi.pastey.net/7399 |
| 03:44.35 | raevanmorlock | But then you're having objects that have functionality that's never being used |
| 03:44.53 | Iriel | raevanmorlock: But FUNCTIONALITY has no cost |
| 03:45.11 | Iriel | raevanmorlock: It's just a method pointer somewhere, shared across all of the instances of the object |
| 03:45.49 | Shirik | rpf; |
| 03:45.49 | raevanmorlock | oh? |
| 03:45.51 | Shirik | raevanmorlock |
| 03:45.55 | Shirik | you're going to kill yourself in a second |
| 03:46.08 | raevanmorlock | yes |
| 03:46.08 | Shirik | I just opened a new C# project in visual studio, just to test something out |
| 03:46.40 | Shirik | C# DOES support interfaces, and you CAN do something like |
| 03:46.50 | Shirik | public class Class3 : Class1, Class2 |
| 03:46.56 | Shirik | if Class1 and Class2 are interfaces |
| 03:47.01 | Iriel | Now, if all of your RotatingObject's automatically add themselves to a list somewhere so they're processed for rotation every frame, then there's some STATE and ACTIVITY involved and both of those do incur a cost. |
| 03:47.38 | raevanmorlock | I know it supports interfaces.. I said that.. but I've never used 'em before and teh thing that bugged me was I'd have like a translate() method written a dozen different times |
| 03:48.06 | raevanmorlock | and I saw examples of two interfaces.. wasn't sure if it could go beyond that |
| 03:48.20 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/7401 |
| 03:48.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hatado (n=kco41@74-136-6-34.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 03:48.29 | raevanmorlock | I should probably throw up some code.. see if it works..a nd then pastey it if it doesn't so you guys have something concrete to look at |
| 03:48.31 | Shirik | my code, compiled perfectly (though those three were in 3 files) |
| 03:49.02 | Iriel | Most languages only know three quantities.. None, One, Many |
| 03:49.27 | raevanmorlock | So accepting 2 interfaces and not 3 would be silly? |
| 03:49.32 | Iriel | usually |
| 03:49.49 | Iriel | Sometimes there are large finite limits on things for practical reasons, but they tend to be implementation specific and (hopefully) tuneable |
| 03:49.50 | Shirik | I see no reason to believe it would accept 2 and not 3 |
| 03:49.51 | Shirik | or more |
| 03:50.03 | raevanmorlock | Yeah... when I was doing it inheritance-style.. it'd color-code the first one and second but not the third though -- which is what confused me. Maybe it'd color-code 'em all if they were interfaces |
| 03:50.05 | Iriel | I've yet to see a language spec say something like 'you can inherit from up to 6 interfaces' |
| 03:50.28 | raevanmorlock | and then of course there were errors to go along with that |
| 03:50.45 | Shirik | I just added a 3rd interface to implement and it accepted it ok |
| 03:50.51 | Shirik | so yeah |
| 03:50.55 | raevanmorlock | ok cool |
| 03:50.57 | Shirik | I'm not going to keep trying until it doesn't let me anymore |
| 03:51.00 | Shirik | because I don't think it'll end |
| 03:51.08 | raevanmorlock | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:51.14 | hatado | http://wowi.pastey.net/7400 <-- lua http://wowi.pastey.net/7402 <--xml (CdTab) http://wowi.pastey.net/7403 <--xml (buttonpress) it says that CdTab is nil? |
| 03:51.23 | raevanmorlock | My brain's been dead for the past 4 hours so I really haven't progressed any since then |
| 03:52.25 | Iriel | hatado: Did you load them in the right order? |
| 03:52.32 | hatado | hrm |
| 03:52.34 | Iriel | hatado: Are there any XML errors in your FrameXML.log |
| 03:52.44 | hatado | shouldn't be lol |
| 03:52.52 | hatado | just a sec checking order |
| 03:52.56 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:53.27 | raevanmorlock | Are interfaces and classes separate entities? Like.. I can't write an interface for a class, right? |
| 03:53.44 | Shirik | a class would implement an interface |
| 03:53.53 | raevanmorlock | yeah I phrased that all wrong |
| 03:54.12 | hatado | lol I have no clue what order it needs to be in >_< |
| 03:54.50 | Shirik | your TOC file |
| 03:54.52 | Shirik | what does it say |
| 03:54.55 | hatado | umm |
| 03:54.59 | Mike-N-Go | I bout stacks and stacks of Heart of the Wild for under vendor price a few months ago, now I am selling them for over 1 G each, lol. |
| 03:55.04 | Iriel | hatado: Since you've got the call in OnClick, I suspect order is less important |
| 03:55.17 | hatado | cd.xml |
| 03:55.17 | hatado | Chardisplay.lua |
| 03:55.17 | hatado | buttonpress.xml |
| 03:55.17 | hatado | Info.xml |
| 03:55.24 | raevanmorlock | interface TranslatingObjectInterface { } class TranslatingObject { TranslatingObject(); Translate(); } class MyClass : TranslatingObjectInterface { TranslatingObject _transobj; Translate() { _transobj.Translate(); } } // is this what I'm going for? |
| 03:55.36 | hatado | info.xml is fine though |
| 03:55.57 | Shirik | I would do something more like |
| 03:56.22 | Shirik | interface TranslatingObject, interface RotatingObject, class Object : RotatingObject, TranslatingObject |
| 03:56.54 | Shirik | in your interface you would have methods which apply to it |
| 03:57.24 | Shirik | in the object you would (1) implement those methods, and (2) have methods that apply to objects but not rotating or translating objects specifically |
| 03:57.26 | raevanmorlock | but then the implementation is in the Object--not the TranslatingObject--so if I made Object2 also inherit then it'd need its own implementation .. when the implementations are identical |
| 03:57.48 | Shirik | so why doesn't object2 inhereit Object? |
| 03:57.59 | Mike-N-Go | Bah, you all lost me somewhere. I don't know the syntax. |
| 03:58.17 | Mike-N-Go | Thanks for doing my question =] |
| 03:58.18 | raevanmorlock | because what if Object 2 needed to also inherit something else? |
| 03:58.32 | Shirik | you could extend Object and then implement another interface |
| 03:58.51 | raevanmorlock | or what if it only needed part of what Object had and then something Object didn't have? |
| 03:59.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh_ (n=chatzill@c-68-36-168-161.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 03:59.19 | Mike-N-Go | Wrong room.. |
| 03:59.33 | Shirik | chances are |
| 03:59.56 | Shirik | if you want to implement only part of what object had, then the given implementation of TranslatingObject and RotatingObject would be incorrect for the new implementation |
| 04:00.17 | Shirik | or... |
| 04:00.22 | Shirik | you could say something like |
| 04:00.23 | raevanmorlock | no.. it might just need to translate and not rotate |
| 04:00.33 | Shirik | in which case you would implement translation |
| 04:00.37 | Shirik | and not rotation |
| 04:01.09 | raevanmorlock | but if I did Object2: TranslatingObject then I have to redefine the Translate() method for that object |
| 04:01.21 | raevanmorlock | which is superfluous because it'd be teh same as the Translate() method for Object |
| 04:01.35 | Shirik | ok so |
| 04:01.37 | Shirik | you do this |
| 04:01.42 | raevanmorlock | and if I do Object2: Object then I have the Rotate() method from the RotatingObject but no use for it |
| 04:01.46 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: have a look at http://wowi.pastey.net/7399 - your object can extend AbstractMovableObject to inherit the functionality, but be treated by code as either rotatable or translatable as appropriate. Or your object can choose to extend something else and directly (re-)implement the methods. It's a tradeoff. |
| 04:01.58 | Shirik | class TranslatingObject : TranslatingInterface |
| 04:02.02 | Iriel | Another trick you can do is to make your object implement all of the methods but have none of the interfaces, and then make classes which add no code, but associate the underlying implementation with only some of the interfaces |
| 04:02.10 | Shirik | class TranslatingAndRotatingObject : TranslatingObject, RotatingInterface |
| 04:02.13 | Iriel | (Sorry to digress from the other explanation) |
| 04:02.51 | Karrion | and if you wanted to restrict it to never be rotatable, you could extend AbstractMovableObject but override the rotate() method to either not do anything or throw an exception |
| 04:03.03 | Karrion | (depending on how strict the restriction is) |
| 04:03.26 | Kolth | Any Eclipse gurus here? |
| 04:03.33 | Shirik | I used it a while back |
| 04:03.34 | raevanmorlock | Karrion: right.. then add to that another class that implements just one of the two and you end up having to reuse the code |
| 04:03.51 | Kolth | I'm having problems getting my Interpreter working in RDT on Windows. |
| 04:04.00 | Shirik | do you HAVE to use eclipse? |
| 04:04.10 | Kolth | Nope. |
| 04:04.11 | Iriel | Kolth: I only know it well enough that when developers claim code can't compile I say "did you try compiling it outside of eclipse" because 9 times out of 10 it's their eclipse environment that's busted |
| 04:04.15 | Shirik | honestly I never did like it; I switched to netbeans really quickly |
| 04:04.18 | hatado | It says that when I call "CdTab:Show()" it says that CdTab is nil... buuuuut in my Cd.xml it says that <Frame name="CdTab" etc etc etc> |
| 04:04.26 | Kolth | Iriel: In this case, Eclipse is the problem 100%. |
| 04:04.52 | Kolth | Eclipse doesn't seem to be able to load C:\ruby\ like I'm thinking it oughta. |
| 04:05.03 | Karrion | raevanmorlock: yeah, you choose whether reimplementing the methods, or carrying the baggage of the generic base class is cheaper - it's flexible ;-) |
| 04:05.12 | raevanmorlock | haha |
| 04:05.13 | Kolth | It might just be a system Environment Variable but C:\ruby\bin is in my PATH |
| 04:05.17 | Shirik | ok hatado |
| 04:05.25 | Shirik | did you look at your FrameXML errors log? |
| 04:05.45 | hatado | the error that pops up ingame? |
| 04:05.52 | Shirik | you have an error in game? |
| 04:06.00 | hatado | it says CdTab is nil |
| 04:06.05 | Shirik | nono |
| 04:06.07 | hatado | lol |
| 04:06.16 | Nom- | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ |
| 04:06.18 | Nom- | heh |
| 04:06.22 | Nom- | for those who haven't seen it |
| 04:06.40 | bleetah | WoW Winer news, folks.. the WoW Wine AppDB entry maintainer is moving the HowTo details over to WoWWiki. We'll format and correct, etc., over the coming week. But this is 'good news' for non OSX/Win32 users imo :) |
| 04:06.49 | raevanmorlock | That link still times out for me |
| 04:07.14 | raevanmorlock | I'm gonna go take a shower.. I do my best thinking there |
| 04:07.35 | Shirik | open C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Logs\FrameXML.log |
| 04:07.36 | raevanmorlock | thanks for the help, everyone |
| 04:07.56 | Shirik | look for errors |
| 04:07.57 | Nom- | lol |
| 04:08.04 | Nom- | it even shows what aura you had on when you logged out |
| 04:08.06 | Nom- | and buffs |
| 04:08.16 | Nom- | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Innominata |
| 04:09.22 | raevanmorlock | Does it show how much time is remaining on them? |
| 04:09.29 | hatado | afk |
| 04:10.40 | Nom- | don't know actually |
| 04:11.24 | Nom- | That's pretty damn sweet, that page :D |
| 04:12.06 | Nom- | Far better than the other character profile viewers |
| 04:12.09 | Nom- | Because it's realtime |
| 04:12.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge seebs_ (n=seebs@mail.seebs.net) |
| 04:12.25 | Karrion | hey it's working now, awesome |
| 04:12.58 | Nom- | I suspect it's a bit like the forums |
| 04:13.02 | Nom- | Just gets hammered a lot |
| 04:13.15 | Karrion | lol I logged with a commanding shout on, impressive |
| 04:13.21 | Shirik | but it makes me look sucky T_T |
| 04:13.31 | Shirik | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Eredar&n=Shirik |
| 04:13.42 | Nom- | I've got Blessing of Auch, Mining and Crusder Aura |
| 04:13.43 | Nom- | :P |
| 04:13.44 | Karrion | I'll have to remember to always log in my best gear >.> |
| 04:13.51 | Nom- | lol |
| 04:14.02 | Karrion | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&n=Karrion |
| 04:14.49 | Shirik | I have no buffs in that either >< |
| 04:14.51 | Nom- | I logged out with my healing mace equipped lol |
| 04:15.02 | Nom- | My DPS looks crap :( |
| 04:15.07 | hatado | ok in my log (I have renamed cd.xml to CdTab.xml) 2/28 22:12:41.806 Couldn't open Interface\AddOns\chardisplay\CdTab.xml |
| 04:15.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (i=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 04:15.17 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 04:17.03 | hatado | why would it say that? |
| 04:18.42 | Iriel | Was the file there when you started WoW? |
| 04:18.45 | hatado | yes |
| 04:19.11 | Iriel | Did you get the name right? |
| 04:19.26 | hatado | Yes |
| 04:19.52 | Shirik | it doesnt' parse right |
| 04:20.13 | hatado | how can I fix that? |
| 04:20.27 | Shirik | I'm trying to find the error but Visual Studio got pissed when I tried to make sense of it |
| 04:20.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo (n=kemayo@pool-71-103-171-83.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:20.56 | Shirik | it's convinced there is no <Frame> tag |
| 04:21.26 | hatado | hmm |
| 04:21.31 | hatado | maybe I did it wrong |
| 04:23.13 | raevanmorlock | Stupid armory still doesn't work for me |
| 04:23.15 | Iriel | The junk at the bottom of that xml file is wrong |
| 04:23.45 | Iriel | There's a </Frame> earlier, and then it re-ends a frame |
| 04:23.54 | Iriel | Use a proper XML editor and it'll show you |
| 04:23.58 | hatado | I se!! |
| 04:24.09 | hatado | I just noticed that acutally |
| 04:24.48 | hatado | which one do I get rid of? heh |
| 04:25.14 | raevanmorlock | the one that's misplaced |
| 04:25.38 | Shirik | Failed to create a schema for this data file because: This XML document is not well formed. It contains the following error: The 'Ui' start tag on line '1' does not match the end tag of 'Frames'. Line 219, position 10. |
| 04:25.52 | hatado | on it shirik |
| 04:26.40 | hatado | why is that? |
| 04:27.25 | raevanmorlock | What're you all looking at? |
| 04:27.48 | Shirik | I'm looking at this: http://wowi.pastey.net/7402 |
| 04:27.54 | Shirik | and hatado: I'm just telling you what visual studio's telling me |
| 04:27.59 | hatado | I know |
| 04:28.00 | Shirik | which is, put simply, the xml file doesn't make sense |
| 04:28.11 | hatado | I thought so |
| 04:28.54 | Iriel | Unfortunately that XML file is also missing the schema location from the Ui tag, otherwise visual studio could probably parse the Ui.xsd and be more specific |
| 04:29.04 | hatado | http://wowi.pastey.net/7406 is what i have now |
| 04:30.18 | Shirik | I've honestly never really played with visual studio's xml stuff; first time I tried it was now |
| 04:30.22 | Shirik | and I just hit the "validate xml" button |
| 04:30.25 | Shirik | and that's what popped out :P |
| 04:31.06 | hatado | ohhh just added the scema loc.http://wowi.pastey.net/7407 |
| 04:31.54 | Shirik | lol |
| 04:31.57 | Shirik | that new file gave me 119 errors |
| 04:32.15 | hatado | ouch |
| 04:32.24 | hatado | I suck at this lol |
| 04:32.52 | Iriel | hatado: Download XMLSpy -- there's a free trial version |
| 04:33.13 | hatado | ok..I know a link |
| 04:33.48 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: Where'd you see 'validate xml' at? |
| 04:33.57 | Shirik | in visual studio? |
| 04:34.02 | Shirik | I went new->file, created an xml file |
| 04:34.08 | Shirik | paste the code there, in the menu there's... |
| 04:34.17 | Shirik | XML->Validate XML Data |
| 04:34.26 | hatado | lol 3%.... |
| 04:34.26 | Shirik | this is Visual Studio 2003 btw |
| 04:35.02 | raevanmorlock | bah.. I can't find it in '05 Express |
| 04:35.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xuerian (n=core@12-196-151-171.psknet.net) |
| 04:36.06 | Shirik | if it helps at all, I happened to be in a C# project when I did file->new, just because I was testing out that multiple inheritance thing earlier |
| 04:36.17 | Shirik | so technically the xml file is part of a C# project |
| 04:37.09 | hatado | lol |
| 04:37.12 | raevanmorlock | http://wowi.pastey.net/7408 -- fixed up the formatting and took out of the </frames> ( I guessed at which though ) |
| 04:38.34 | hatado | \FrameXML\UIPanelTemplates.lua line 96: attempt to index local 'frame' (a nil value) |
| 04:38.41 | hatado | with raevan's version |
| 04:39.15 | raevanmorlock | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:39.17 | raevanmorlock | that's line 96 |
| 04:39.27 | hatado | hmmmm |
| 04:39.49 | Shirik | raevanmorlock: http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8639/vsxmlpl0.jpg |
| 04:40.17 | Shirik | also, the xml menu doesn't pop up unless the code window has focus |
| 04:40.26 | raevanmorlock | yeah.. I figured out how to do it in Visual Web Developer.. just had to make the error window appear |
| 04:41.15 | raevanmorlock | anyone know the fully qualified path to the .xsd? |
| 04:41.38 | raevanmorlock | oh wait.. that's in my wow installation isn't it? |
| 04:43.51 | raevanmorlock | Warning1The element 'Frames' in namespace 'http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ui/' has invalid child element 'Scripts' in namespace 'http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ui/'. List of possible elements expected: 'Frame' in namespace 'http://www.blizzard.com/wow/ui/'.C:\Documents and Settings\Michael\Desktop\pastey-7407.xml1848Miscellaneous Files |
| 04:44.13 | Tem | woot, I just coinstar'd the change that's been rotting in a coffee cup on my desk for a while |
| 04:44.20 | Tem | 30 bucks in what feels like free money |
| 04:44.51 | Iriel | Tem: Happy day! |
| 04:44.52 | raevanmorlock | sounds like a good day's work |
| 04:45.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@207-118-219-148.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 04:45.09 | hatado | lol cool tem |
| 04:45.13 | raevanmorlock | hatado: Did you write this XML or did someone else? |
| 04:45.17 | Thunder_Child | $30 in change in a coffie cup...but be a big cup |
| 04:45.18 | hatado | me :D |
| 04:45.26 | Tem | Thunder_Child, it's a Tem-Sized coffee cup |
| 04:45.33 | Thunder_Child | ah, that explains it |
| 04:45.35 | Tem | has my picture on it and everything |
| 04:45.41 | hatado | lol |
| 04:46.06 | raevanmorlock | Alright.. on line 184 you have <OnEvent>Chardis_play()</OnEvent> .. what object is that supposed ot belong to? |
| 04:46.16 | hatado | hmm |
| 04:46.22 | Tem | I'm the guy that always gets the largest drink size with his burger |
| 04:46.38 | Tem | I'm the guy who gets the "gallon-size" drink at the movies |
| 04:46.58 | raevanmorlock | you're the fatty? :) |
| 04:46.58 | hatado | raevanmorlock: parent_TargetModel:Show(); |
| 04:47.04 | Tem | raevanmorlock, not a fatty |
| 04:47.21 | Tem | if I had a picture of myself, I'd show you |
| 04:47.25 | hatado | well it links it to you |
| 04:47.30 | hatado | er |
| 04:47.30 | Tem | but no, not a fatty at all |
| 04:47.31 | Xuerian | You know, other than on the coffee cup. |
| 04:47.32 | raevanmorlock | lol it's okay.. doesn't matter to me either way--I'm just teain' |
| 04:47.41 | Tem | I'm tall |
| 04:47.45 | Tem | 6'2" |
| 04:47.46 | raevanmorlock | hatado: meh? |
| 04:47.51 | hatado | im lost lol jus tasec |
| 04:47.54 | raevanmorlock | Xuerian: lol |
| 04:48.08 | Tem | Xuerian, the one of the cup is old, and I don't even have that picture to share |
| 04:48.23 | raevanmorlock | open up your xml file and do a search on chardis_play() .. and tell me where that's supposed to be |
| 04:48.28 | Tem | Xuerian, it was a gift after a trip. They used a picture they had taken for the mug |
| 04:48.29 | Nom- | I like the armory thing when it works |
| 04:48.34 | hatado | working on it |
| 04:48.37 | Xuerian | I jest, yet I mourn for lack of photographical evidence of our dear tem's existence. |
| 04:48.42 | Nom- | It's not working on all characters it seems |
| 04:48.54 | raevanmorlock | Fuckin armory still hasn't loaded for me |
| 04:49.02 | raevanmorlock | I despise its existence |
| 04:49.44 | hatado | lol raevan.. I think it was there for something just is for nothing now.. lets see.. hmm |
| 04:49.54 | raevanmorlock | hatado: You currently have the event happening between a PlayerModel object and a Button object.. so, essentially, the event doesn't belong to anything |
| 04:50.08 | Nom- | It seems to work fine for me, raevanmorlock |
| 04:50.14 | Nom- | It mustn't like you. |
| 04:50.21 | raevanmorlock | The armory? Indeed. |
| 04:50.27 | raevanmorlock | It's a leetest |
| 04:50.40 | subbot | does anyone know of a lightweight mod that gets rid of the default action bars? |
| 04:50.44 | subbot | i don't want an action bar mod |
| 04:50.50 | subbot | i want an action bar hiding mod :P |
| 04:51.02 | Shirik | you want to hide the action bars |
| 04:51.09 | Shirik | type /script UIParent:Hide(); |
| 04:51.10 | raevanmorlock | I know of a lightweight mod that stores the prices of all your inventory for you :) |
| 04:51.10 | Shirik | =P |
| 04:51.22 | Shirik | no seriously don't do that >< |
| 04:51.30 | raevanmorlock | Shirik.. wouldn't that hide everything? |
| 04:51.33 | Shirik | ye |
| 04:51.34 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:51.36 | subbot | that's the same thing as hitting alt-z |
| 04:51.37 | subbot | :P |
| 04:51.38 | Shirik | but it would hide the action bars |
| 04:51.46 | raevanmorlock | overkill |
| 04:51.48 | raevanmorlock | heh |
| 04:52.23 | Mr_Rabies2 | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Llane&n=Raybeez |
| 04:52.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | weee |
| 04:52.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | thurr i am |
| 04:52.31 | subbot | /script MainMenuBar:Hide() worked |
| 04:52.32 | Shirik | but in all seriousness |
| 04:52.36 | Shirik | you want to hide the... yeha |
| 04:52.38 | Shirik | but... |
| 04:52.41 | Shirik | why would you want to do that? |
| 04:52.48 | raevanmorlock | I don't think the armory really exists.. I think you're all just fuckin with my head |
| 04:52.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | rofl |
| 04:52.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | it finally worked for me |
| 04:53.02 | Shirik | iirc, it won't persist between sessions |
| 04:53.03 | subbot | i use a mod that directly binds abilities to keys without using any action ids |
| 04:53.34 | Nom- | lol that's about as feral as you can get, eh? |
| 04:53.35 | subbot | and i have all my keybinds memorized |
| 04:53.49 | raevanmorlock | You'd need a mod that does a series of commands for you when you log in and then include the MainMenuBar:Hide() as one of those commands |
| 04:53.57 | hatado | Message: ..\FrameXML\UIPanelTemplates.lua line 18: 'for' limit must be a numberDebug: [C]: ? ..\FrameXML\UIPanelTemplates.lua:18: PanelTemplates_UpdateTabs() ..\FrameXML\UIPanelTemplates.lua:8: PanelTemplates_SetTab() [string "CdTab:OnLoad"]:3: [string "CdTab:OnLoad"]:1 |
| 04:54.06 | subbot | yeah raevanmorlock, i have one of those |
| 04:54.08 | hatado | O_o |
| 04:54.24 | subbot | it also relocates the ZoneTextFrame (or whatever it's called) |
| 04:54.37 | subbot | a bunch of little tweaks that i've made |
| 04:54.39 | raevanmorlock | Is it just me or did they remove teh news post about the armory? |
| 04:54.48 | hatado | they did |
| 04:54.58 | subbot | probably because it was getting hammered |
| 04:55.04 | Karrion | probably because it's been down most of the day |
| 04:55.29 | Shirik | that thing has got to kill their database |
| 04:55.34 | Shirik | think of how much information it stores |
| 04:55.39 | Shirik | unless they have it split across several servers |
| 04:55.48 | raevanmorlock | Or one of you hacked it and faked the news post in order to make me believe there really was an armory in this never-ending conspiracy to make me sit here all day long clicking refresh on an invalid link in hopes of seeing a glimpse of what you all are drooling over! |
| 04:56.02 | Karrion | yeah, it'd have to be a separate db that gets stuff pushed to it on logout |
| 04:56.02 | Shirik | >.> |
| 04:56.03 | Shirik | <.< |
| 04:56.04 | Shirik | wasn't me |
| 04:56.05 | hatado | GASP! |
| 04:56.34 | raevanmorlock | It was a clever ploy, but it won't work! |
| 04:56.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hugo546 (i=hugo@hugo.scnet.cz) |
| 04:56.55 | Shirik | curses, foiled again |
| 04:57.38 | WobWork | next time, Gadget... next time |
| 04:57.42 | WobWork | <evil laugh> |
| 04:57.43 | raevanmorlock | hatado: Just... learn to code better :) I dunno.. that thing Iriel mentioned has a limited trial--you could also get Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition for MS for free.. that'll help check your syntax and format everything properly too |
| 04:57.58 | raevanmorlock | from MS* |
| 04:58.03 | WobWork | personally? |
| 04:58.07 | WobWork | Sharp Develop is good |
| 04:58.19 | WobWork | for .net 2.0 stuff |
| 04:58.21 | Shirik | or you could go to school like me and get every MS app for free :P |
| 04:58.21 | WobWork | and free |
| 04:58.25 | raevanmorlock | and if you extract teh UI.xsd and put it in the right path--it can check your syntax against that and all that good stuff |
| 04:58.44 | Shirik | next year they should have vista premium too |
| 04:58.50 | hatado | aight |
| 04:58.57 | raevanmorlock | Shirik: Every one? I only get a few crap-tastic things for cheap... =\ |
| 04:59.08 | Shirik | I haven't found a program that they don't have yet |
| 04:59.16 | Shirik | but... I go for computer engineering so... |
| 04:59.22 | Shirik | that probably has some influence |
| 04:59.38 | raevanmorlock | Do you use the academic alliance thing? |
| 05:00.16 | Shirik | the wha? |
| 05:00.35 | Shirik | I dunno I just go to the library and say "hey I need ______" and they say "ok can I have your card please" and then I give it to them and they go "ok here you go" |
| 05:00.43 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 05:00.46 | raevanmorlock | oh nice |
| 05:01.01 | raevanmorlock | Our school is part of the MSDN Academic Alliance.. so we log into their site to buy the software |
| 05:01.12 | raevanmorlock | I think our library used to give out stuff, but not anymore :\ |
| 05:01.17 | Iriel | I have a similar deal at Fry's electronics, except it's my credit card, rather than library card |
| 05:01.59 | WobWork | hehe |
| 05:02.20 | raevanmorlock | Well that's not free then |
| 05:02.48 | WobWork | sure it is. |
| 05:02.48 | raevanmorlock | The Fry's Electronics here sucks.. the line takes longer than the shopping and they have a giant cutout of a rip-off Spongebob |
| 05:02.55 | WobWork | for a month before you start gaining interest =P |
| 05:03.58 | raevanmorlock | that reminds me.. I gotta pay rent tomorrow |
| 05:06.38 | raevanmorlock | ah.. eat time |
| 05:06.40 | raevanmorlock | what to eat... |
| 05:07.01 | hatado | peanutbutter and syrup > all snacks |
| 05:07.06 | hatado | hehe |
| 05:07.21 | Shirik | Oh! Iriel, you know Java, right? |
| 05:07.41 | raevanmorlock | maple syrup? |
| 05:07.47 | hatado | any syrup |
| 05:08.13 | raevanmorlock | I would consider chocolate syrup... but maple syrup is just wrong |
| 05:08.36 | hatado | nah.. I like butter flavored syrup (pancake syrup) |
| 05:09.07 | raevanmorlock | I think I'll go with making a chicken quesadilla instead |
| 05:09.10 | Iriel | Shirik: I do |
| 05:09.19 | hatado | lol |
| 05:09.25 | Shirik | My roommate came up to me with this really odd question yesterday and I couldn't for the life of me figure out the answer for him. Perhaps you've heard of this. |
| 05:09.51 | Shirik | He's using swing to make a GUI interface, and for some odd reason, when it first pops up, you don't see any controls |
| 05:10.02 | Shirik | when you maximize it though, they appear, and then you restore it and they're all there |
| 05:10.22 | raevanmorlock | What if you move anotehr window over top of it and then off of it? |
| 05:10.25 | Karrion | Shirik: odd |
| 05:10.26 | Shirik | that too |
| 05:10.35 | Shirik | I told him to do a Repaint() after he creates it, but no effect |
| 05:10.37 | raevanmorlock | Sounds like a paint problem.. it's not painting the screen properly |
| 05:10.50 | raevanmorlock | to the screen* |
| 05:11.06 | Iriel | Hm, I wonder if it's a layout manage issue |
| 05:11.25 | Iriel | I tend to do server stuff rather than UI stuff so my swing is very rusty |
| 05:11.30 | Shirik | heh, ok |
| 05:11.40 | Iriel | but I suspect he needs to tell the layout manager to refresh its layout after he's set up the UI |
| 05:11.41 | Shirik | well I told him "That's what you get for using Java" but yeah :P |
| 05:11.46 | Iriel | Which is why the resize is doing it just fine |
| 05:11.53 | Shirik | hmm ok |
| 05:12.06 | raevanmorlock | ha |
| 05:12.31 | raevanmorlock | I had a rusty swing once... mom didn't let me play on it |
| 05:12.36 | Shirik | >< |
| 05:12.51 | raevanmorlock | I'm gonna go make my food now.. |
| 05:12.54 | Thunder_Child | Puns (and their owners) will be shot on sight |
| 05:15.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 05:16.00 | hatado | Tunder_Child: omg finally someone thinks the same thing as me |
| 05:18.32 | Shirik | Well, I think I just made a historical first |
| 05:18.38 | Thunder_Child | heh, but watch out for Cairenn......a friendly warning |
| 05:18.41 | Shirik | I managed to burn myself on a kitchen table |
| 05:18.58 | Cairenn | mrh? someone called me? |
| 05:19.05 | Shirik | hai Cairenn :) |
| 05:19.05 | Iriel | Next time, be on top or use a tablecloth |
| 05:19.10 | Thunder_Child | i was warning some one about you |
| 05:19.14 | Thunder_Child | if thats what you mean |
| 05:19.27 | Cairenn | wha? lil 'ol me? why need to warn? |
| 05:19.34 | Shirik | no I spilled boiling water on it. Cleaned it up ok but a few seconds later put my hand flat on the table |
| 05:19.37 | Shirik | and burned it :P |
| 05:19.41 | Thunder_Child | because you like MAKING puns.... |
| 05:19.47 | hatado | LOL shirik |
| 05:20.26 | Shirik | but it was worth it for instant ramen :P |
| 05:22.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nickenyfiken (n=najklord@83.145.59.23) |
| 05:22.47 | hatado | I bet |
| 05:23.03 | Shikatanai | anyone know a place to get item id's? |
| 05:23.50 | Karrion | Shikatanai: anywhere but thottbot |
| 05:24.04 | Shikatanai | i can't find them on allah |
| 05:24.05 | Shirik | hey guys: Is PlayerFrame supposed to be secure? |
| 05:24.11 | Shikatanai | i need the item id for sword of wizardry |
| 05:24.18 | Shikatanai | err blade of wizardry |
| 05:24.19 | Karrion | look at the URL |
| 05:25.04 | hatado | 31336 |
| 05:26.32 | Shikatanai | oh nice |
| 05:26.44 | hatado | that it? |
| 05:26.47 | Iriel | Shirik: I imagine it is <Button name="PlayerFrame" frameStrata="BACKGROUND" toplevel="true" movable="true" inherits="SecureUnitButtonTemplate" parent="UIParent"> |
| 05:26.48 | Shikatanai | yep |
| 05:26.56 | hatado | cool |
| 05:26.56 | Shirik | hrm |
| 05:27.01 | Shirik | then something's jacked up :/ |
| 05:27.21 | Shirik | I think my addon's tainting PlayerFrame and the PartyMemberFrames .... :( |
| 05:27.54 | Shirik | it would explain why they aren't showing when people join my party mid-combat... |
| 05:28.16 | Shikatanai | anyone know if they're going to fix the terrain exploits in area 52? |
| 05:28.25 | Shirik | terrain exploits? |
| 05:28.41 | Shikatanai | yeah you can kill people with impunity in area 52 if you stand in the correct locations |
| 05:28.45 | raevanmorlock | you mean that zero-gravity thing? |
| 05:28.56 | Shikatanai | no i mean killing people in area 52 with no guard aggro |
| 05:29.03 | raevanmorlock | ooh |
| 05:29.14 | Shirik | I imagine there are higher priorities, tbh |
| 05:29.18 | raevanmorlock | I heard there's this one spot where you can jump and you never come down |
| 05:30.09 | raevanmorlock | Eventually, you hit orbit.. and just float around the world |
| 05:31.00 | Shikatanai | lol |
| 05:31.09 | Shikatanai | well |
| 05:31.21 | Shikatanai | you can kill people INSIDE the inn with no guard intervention |
| 05:31.25 | Shikatanai | you can kill people outside |
| 05:31.37 | Shikatanai | its pretty unplayable in area 52 on my server atm |
| 05:31.49 | raevanmorlock | .... what is area 52? |
| 05:32.03 | Shirik | netherstorm |
| 05:32.03 | Shikatanai | 5-10 allies constantly hurling fiery boulders of doom at you |
| 05:32.24 | raevanmorlock | What's netherstorm? |
| 05:32.30 | Shirik | outlands |
| 05:32.34 | Shikatanai | a zone in outland |
| 05:32.46 | raevanmorlock | Is that in the barrens? |
| 05:32.58 | Shikatanai | ok ceasing to feed the trolls now ;p |
| 05:33.09 | raevanmorlock | lol I don't play much |
| 05:33.21 | Shikatanai | its a level 67-70 zone |
| 05:33.27 | raevanmorlock | is it really called Area 52 though? I've never even heard of that |
| 05:33.33 | raevanmorlock | oooh a new place |
| 05:33.36 | raevanmorlock | That'd explain it |
| 05:34.13 | Xuerian | Here I thought the server 'Area 52' was in question <.< |
| 05:35.03 | raevanmorlock | yeah.. the whole server is bugged... you log on, jump, and next thing ya know.. you're in orbit waving to all the other little chars floating in outer space |
| 05:35.32 | Xuerian | I thought my warlock was just that uber :( |
| 05:37.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [quoin] (n=quoin@219-90-188-212.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 05:40.06 | WobWork | There was a gnome that was jumping, then standing in midair on a bloodthingie run |
| 05:40.17 | WobWork | blood furnace |
| 05:40.24 | WobWork | I keep calling it bloodforge |
| 05:41.13 | raevanmorlock | same difference |
| 05:42.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo (n=kemayo@pool-71-103-171-83.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:43.30 | WobWork | Although I couldn't work out how he stuck himself up there |
| 05:43.37 | WobWork | must be some strange gnome thing |
| 05:44.11 | Nom- | Gnomes invented VD |
| 05:44.39 | raevanmorlock | Gnomes are very crafty |
| 05:45.20 | bleetah | what gets me, when playing a tauren, is that there's no class move where I can just sit on a gnome to do damage to them |
| 05:46.24 | raevanmorlock | hah |
| 05:46.38 | WobWork | I like that animated gif where the tauren boots the gnome |
| 05:47.20 | raevanmorlock | got a url for that? |
| 05:49.46 | WobWork | http://neuroxin.com/ljpix/pwned1wu.gif |
| 05:49.48 | Mike-N-Go | Does anyone prefer MetaMap over MapNotes? |
| 05:49.56 | WobWork | Cartographer does it for me |
| 05:50.00 | Mike-N-Go | Or vise versa. |
| 05:50.22 | raevanmorlock | ha.. nice |
| 05:50.30 | Mike-N-Go | I had frame layering issues with Cartographer, I think it was the cause. |
| 05:50.56 | Mike-N-Go | I am looking for a Quest History compatible mapmod |
| 05:52.23 | ckknight | hey all |
| 05:52.24 | bleetah | back to the subject of puns... recently spotted guild name <The Horde Is My Shepherd> |
| 05:52.30 | bleetah | not really a pun, but.. nm |
| 05:52.32 | ckknight | lol, bleetah |
| 05:52.43 | Cairenn | hey ckknight |
| 05:52.47 | Cairenn | bleetah: rofl |
| 05:52.48 | bleetah | heya ckknight |
| 05:52.53 | ckknight | Mike-N-Go: it didn't pay to inform me of said layering issues? |
| 05:53.02 | ckknight | I came here to give you all a brainteaser |
| 05:53.10 | bleetah | 42! |
| 05:53.15 | Mike-N-Go | Oh, all my mods.. currently about 150 |
| 05:53.45 | ckknight | you have 27 round, metal balls, each weighing the same weight except for one, which weighs more, you cannot tell which one it is by looking at them |
| 05:53.50 | Mike-N-Go | Many, are FuBar mods (nice work BTW) |
| 05:53.52 | ckknight | you have a scale which balance any arbitrary number of balls against each other to show which group weighs more, less, or balances |
| 05:53.58 | ckknight | how do you find the heavy ball in a maximum of 3 weighings? |
| 05:54.18 | Shirik | I think I've heard this before |
| 05:54.30 | Karrion | I've heard it before |
| 05:54.31 | Mike-N-Go | All I have to say, is that the 7 or so mods that altered the Map Frame, did not coroperate. |
| 05:54.33 | ckknight | I've heard it with 12 balls before |
| 05:54.42 | Shirik | ok |
| 05:54.44 | Shirik | want the answer? |
| 05:54.46 | Shirik | I got it |
| 05:54.52 | Iriel | You know it's heavier, so it's not so bad |
| 05:54.58 | WobWork | ^^ |
| 05:55.03 | WobWork | my response exactly, Iriel =) |
| 05:55.06 | Mike-N-Go | And when I disabled Cartographer, it subsided. |
| 05:55.10 | Shirik | arbitrarily place 9 balls on each scale |
| 05:55.15 | Shirik | which means you're leaving out 9 to begin with |
| 05:55.30 | Shirik | if the scale is equal, then it must be one of the 9 you left out, otherwise it's in one of the 9 on the heavier side |
| 05:55.40 | Thunder_Child | um...you pick them up one at a time and figure it out that way,,,, |
| 05:55.44 | Shirik | take the 9 you've isolated, do 3 at a time |
| 05:55.47 | Shirik | then do 1 at a time |
| 05:55.48 | Karrion | 3^3=27 ;-) |
| 05:56.16 | Shirik | a slightly modified binary tree |
| 05:56.20 | Shirik | we'll call it... a trinary tree |
| 05:56.33 | Nom- | I'd do 9,9,9 |
| 05:56.35 | Nom- | 4,4,1 |
| 05:56.44 | Shirik | what if it's in the 4 |
| 05:57.00 | Nom- | 2,2 |
| 05:57.03 | Shirik | then? |
| 05:57.05 | WobWork | that's three =) |
| 05:57.06 | Shirik | 1 1? |
| 05:57.08 | Mike-N-Go | What happened, was that one of the layers, a full, non-translusent layer, was at top level, making it hard to see everything underneath.. |
| 05:57.09 | Cairenn | then you're still left with 2 |
| 05:57.10 | WobWork | that's four =) |
| 05:57.13 | Nom- | ah yeah true |
| 05:57.15 | Nom- | odds works easier |
| 05:57.16 | bleetah | I can do it in one weghing |
| 05:57.17 | Nom- | 9,9,9 |
| 05:57.18 | Nom- | 3,3,3 |
| 05:57.20 | Nom- | 1,1,1 |
| 05:57.20 | Cairenn | has to be the other way |
| 05:57.23 | Shirik | powers of 3 |
| 05:57.51 | bleetah | first, get a bucket of water.. measure the displacements and stuff. then 'magically' put the ball your after on the scales |
| 05:58.14 | bleetah | *you're |
| 05:58.16 | Shirik | displacements of water would be equal |
| 05:58.21 | Shirik | given they are identical in volume |
| 05:58.27 | Cairenn | aye, weight, not size |
| 05:58.27 | WobWork | aye it's heavier in mass |
| 05:58.35 | WobWork | k, how about this one. A sheik has twenty merchants coming to pay their tax which consists of a camel carrying 100 gold coins each. He hears a rumour that one of the merchants is trying to cheat him, by giving him slighter weight coins. How can he figure out which merchant it is in one weighing? |
| 05:59.02 | WobWork | (oh hang on, I haven't thought this one through =P) |
| 05:59.04 | WobWork | >, |
| 05:59.07 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:59.13 | Nom- | you could drop them into water at the same time and see which one falls faster too |
| 05:59.14 | Shirik | ask one to pay 1, one to pay 2, one to pay 3, one to pay 4 |
| 05:59.19 | Nom- | that wouldn't require any weighing |
| 05:59.35 | Shirik | I don't think I understand the question |
| 05:59.38 | Nom- | It would require significantly more time of course :) |
| 05:59.38 | WobWork | Shirik: got it =P |
| 05:59.40 | bleetah | i never wanted to do this for a living |
| 05:59.42 | bleetah | i |
| 05:59.42 | bleetah | I |
| 05:59.46 | bleetah | I always wanted |
| 05:59.49 | bleetah | wanted to be |
| 05:59.51 | bleetah | a |
| 05:59.54 | bleetah | LUMBERJACK! |
| 05:59.55 | WobWork | lumberjack? |
| 05:59.55 | Cairenn | When you guys are done playing with math, feel free to play with http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8806 |
| 06:00.10 | bleetah | leaping from tree to tree! |
| 06:00.22 | bleetah | the mighty (Huon Pine)! |
| 06:00.22 | Xuerian | Nice new avatar :p |
| 06:00.25 | Iriel | Say 'I'm going to weigh this money, 10 bags on each side, if thre's a difference I kill you all, If you own up now I wont punish you' |
| 06:00.30 | bleetah | my best sheep by my side |
| 06:00.52 | raevanmorlock | interfaces are annoying |
| 06:00.54 | Cairenn | Xuerian: been my new ava for 2 days now |
| 06:01.02 | WobWork | Iriel: Well that'd work |
| 06:01.06 | Shirik | I know! |
| 06:01.09 | Nom- | omg Cairenn |
| 06:01.10 | WobWork | but then you'd probably end up down 10 merchants |
| 06:01.12 | Nom- | Flirt more with me then |
| 06:01.15 | Nom- | sheesh |
| 06:01.15 | Xuerian | Cairenn: It's new to meee... <.< |
| 06:01.23 | Cairenn | I was referring to the post guys, not the ava |
| 06:01.23 | Nom- | Claim to be a big flirt, and i see nothing of this anywhere! :D |
| 06:01.41 | Shirik | rofl @ Cairenn |
| 06:01.50 | Cairenn | play with the post, I don't want to know about you playing with the ava, that's just TMI ;) |
| 06:02.12 | bleetah | "Ads no longer showing is a given." << wot ads? |
| 06:02.18 | Shirik | I dare someone to say |
| 06:02.27 | Shirik | "Let us play with your avatar" on that thread |
| 06:03.29 | bleetah | ohhh. those ads |
| 06:03.29 | Tem | bleetah, yeah, I sorta forget that ads are there |
| 06:03.29 | Iriel | So, WobWork is there a clean solution to that one? |
| 06:03.30 | Iriel | There's no guarantee the camels are equivalent |
| 06:03.30 | Shirik | was I right? |
| 06:03.30 | WobWork | I think I needed to clarify something in the original question |
| 06:03.33 | bleetah | Tem: I so totally forget about ads and popus, that when I use someone else's computer, I usually end up with bleeding eyes |
| 06:03.36 | Shirik | 21 * 10 = 210 unfortunately |
| 06:03.38 | WobWork | "X Merchant was shaving a single gram off each coin" |
| 06:03.54 | WobWork | And then Shirik's answer would be the solution |
| 06:04.23 | bleetah | Cairenn: if autographed posters of you are out of the question... I'll take the non-autographed ones kthx |
| 06:04.30 | Iriel | You're assuming my shiek has the technology to weigh coins to the nearest 10 grams |
| 06:04.39 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:04.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 06:05.08 | Karrion | later all |
| 06:05.12 | raevanmorlock | Or posters of parts of you |
| 06:05.14 | Xuerian | Cya, Karrion. |
| 06:05.17 | Thunder_Child | hey Cairenn, if we signed up, would that mean we would get a search engine that works? |
| 06:05.21 | bleetah | Cairenn: I'm trying, I'm really trying |
| 06:05.22 | Shirik | ha |
| 06:05.33 | bleetah | Thunder_Child: I believe dolby's working on that atm |
| 06:05.43 | Thunder_Child | ah |
| 06:05.53 | bleetah | at least, he said that was more important than corect headers for the file d/l's ;) |
| 06:06.00 | Iriel | I assumed all he had was a balance, given the previous question -- Obviously a bad assumption |
| 06:06.35 | Iriel | (Actually, it's 5 grams isn't it with 20 merchants) |
| 06:06.49 | Cairenn | he is, it's pretty well done, full boolean search, he just has to give it the pretty front end yet |
| 06:07.09 | Shirik | Cairenn - would a SVN server be in your capabilities to set up? |
| 06:07.14 | Shirik | (Piggyback off one of the suggestions there) |
| 06:07.20 | Nom- | pfft SVN is easy |
| 06:07.26 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:07.27 | Shirik | not more of how easy it is |
| 06:07.31 | Nom- | there's no point tho |
| 06:07.33 | WobWork | Iriel: It'd have to be less than Coin/Merchants |
| 06:07.35 | Shirik | but rather whether or not the server capability exists |
| 06:07.46 | Nom- | SVN just tends to make things more complicate |
| 06:07.48 | Nom- | +d |
| 06:07.54 | Iriel | Or coins/(merchants - 1) |
| 06:08.01 | WobWork | aye |
| 06:08.16 | Nom- | What together a SOAP interface to pull down a list of mods and i'll put together a mod updater |
| 06:08.33 | Iriel | Soap's far too cumbersom |
| 06:08.39 | Iriel | A simple HTTP get or POST should be sufficient |
| 06:08.39 | WobWork | normal xml? |
| 06:08.39 | Nom- | Actually, on second thoughts, I probably CBF :P |
| 06:08.40 | Shadowed | Soap seems overkill for it |
| 06:09.07 | Corrodias | i thought i would be cool and kill Whitemane before she had a chance to resurrect Mograine |
| 06:09.08 | Shadowed | I'd imagine it's not that hard to even parse out the existing stuff, just means you're getting data you wouldn't want |
| 06:09.11 | Corrodias | it turns out that fucks it all up |
| 06:09.15 | Shirik | hell actually |
| 06:09.27 | Shirik | it should be possible to write an application to do the updating without any extra work on Cairenn's part |
| 06:09.28 | Nom- | By the time you've implimented XML for Input and Output, you've already got SOAP or XMLRPC whatever you want to call it |
| 06:09.35 | bleetah | yeah, WAU would be useful if it were multi-platform (etc, QT) |
| 06:09.35 | raevanmorlock | Does anyone know what the i in iPod stands for? |
| 06:09.35 | Shirik | not entirely easy, but possible |
| 06:09.43 | Shadowed | sure it's easy |
| 06:09.45 | Corrodias | internet |
| 06:09.46 | Nom- | Shirik: Web page scraping is the devil |
| 06:09.50 | Shirik | but possible. |
| 06:09.56 | bleetah | raevanmorlock: from the original iMac advertising campaign "I think therefore iMac" |
| 06:10.00 | Corrodias | it's the god damn internetpod |
| 06:10.04 | Shadowed | It shouldn't be that bad, we have easy to use data like version |
| 06:10.05 | Cairenn | Shirik: do you know how many people have offered to help us get an updater setup and then never carry through? |
| 06:10.12 | Shirik | Would you like me to try? |
| 06:10.20 | WobWork | Updater Impotence =( |
| 06:10.23 | Tem | bleetah, doesn't .NET have a fruit version? |
| 06:10.29 | Shirik | I haven't gotten a chance to use my C++ skills in a while |
| 06:10.39 | bleetah | without the file server putting out last modified headers, you'll be having lots of fun |
| 06:10.55 | Nom- | ewww |
| 06:11.01 | bleetah | i've got a 15 line bash script here that does the updates etc. via wget, and without that header, it's a right pain |
| 06:11.03 | Nom- | .NET is the devil |
| 06:11.05 | Shadowed | bleetah: WoWI requires you to enter a unique version if the file changes remember |
| 06:11.14 | Tem | not that I really care, but I kinda assumed that M$ wanted to compete with Java with C# and one of Java's buggest selling points is easy cross-os compat |
| 06:11.14 | Shirik | I'm going to try; if I do get it up, I'll let you know Cairenn |
| 06:11.16 | Shirik | how's that sound? |
| 06:11.24 | raevanmorlock | ah you're right.. internet pod according to http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/IPod -- that's a stupid name |
| 06:11.49 | bleetah | sounds like one of those reverse acronym things, coming up with it *after* the fact |
| 06:11.52 | WobWork | hehe buggest =) |
| 06:12.01 | bleetah | Shadowed: huh? |
| 06:12.01 | Shadowed | The hardest part would be trying to find the mod id if you wanted to avoid the user doing anything |
| 06:12.17 | Shadowed | bleetah: http://wowinterface.com/downloads/info4569-SSPVP2.4.10.html "Version" has to be changed when you upload a new file |
| 06:13.34 | Cairenn | Shirik: :) |
| 06:13.48 | Shadowed | the real question is |
| 06:13.57 | Shadowed | would it be compatabile with every OS :p |
| 06:14.03 | bleetah | shadowed: what works for me, apart fromt he last modified, is the link on the 'download' button |
| 06:14.06 | Shirik | I intend to make it as portable as possible |
| 06:14.09 | bleetah | *from the last .. |
| 06:14.16 | Shirik | even if that means the linux version will only be command-line executable |
| 06:14.21 | bleetah | Shirik: your only choice then is QT |
| 06:14.24 | Nom- | =O |
| 06:14.30 | Shadowed | Java! |
| 06:14.32 | Iriel | Just do it as a java app |
| 06:14.33 | Nom- | built it in a cross platform GUI thingy |
| 06:14.39 | Shirik | ugh, I could do java too.. |
| 06:14.39 | Tem | quick time needs to die in a f'ing fire |
| 06:14.42 | Nom- | Java is a reasonably sane choice |
| 06:14.44 | bleetah | not all linux's ship with java |
| 06:14.48 | Shirik | though I don't entirely like the language, it /is/ logical |
| 06:14.48 | Shadowed | If you don't have any interest in doing it Shirik, i'd love to take a try at it in Java :p |
| 06:14.50 | bleetah | for very sane reasons |
| 06:14.58 | Iriel | Anyone who can run wow on linux can install a JVM |
| 06:15.04 | Shirik | heh true |
| 06:15.06 | Nom- | Indeed |
| 06:15.18 | Shirik | ok so... java |
| 06:15.22 | Shadowed | It's easier to make something work in Java and have the user install a JVM then it is to try and make different GUI's and such for all the OS's |
| 06:15.28 | bleetah | and we want the JVM to be running whilst WoW runs.. right |
| 06:15.36 | Shirik | this is true; this is where java excels: GUI portability |
| 06:15.40 | Corrodias | well, yeah |
| 06:15.45 | Shadowed | eh? Why would you want it running while WoW runs |
| 06:15.46 | Corrodias | i have at least one JVM running all the time |
| 06:15.50 | Corrodias | sometimes two |
| 06:15.57 | Corrodias | i can spare the 13mb of memory |
| 06:16.01 | Nom- | You could do it in C++ with a crossplatform GUI |
| 06:16.12 | Nom- | I mean, you could open source it for Linux if you wanted to |
| 06:16.14 | Shirik | that was my original thought |
| 06:16.19 | Nom- | And making a Windows executeable is a cakewalk |
| 06:16.32 | Nom- | There's altenatives to QT though |
| 06:17.02 | Nom- | And keep in mind that pplz might want to use it on Mac too |
| 06:17.24 | Corrodias | nah, they won't |
| 06:17.38 | Shirik | I think i'll have a popup whenever it detects a mac |
| 06:17.39 | Shadowed | people want the worldofwar one on mac, so yes they would |
| 06:17.41 | Shirik | "Get a real computer" |
| 06:17.44 | Corrodias | doesn't happen |
| 06:17.52 | Corrodias | people don't use macs! |
| 06:18.07 | Nom- | I wish that was true... |
| 06:18.10 | Tem | Shirik, I prefer to just call them fruit |
| 06:18.12 | Shadowed | it should be able to run on a cellphone too Shirik |
| 06:18.20 | Shirik | wtf are you doing with wow on a cell phone |
| 06:18.32 | Shirik | and how did you get 4 gigs of memory on your cell phone |
| 06:18.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nuoHep (n=nuOHEP@194.190.207.155) |
| 06:18.37 | Shadowed | magic |
| 06:18.43 | Tem | $$ |
| 06:18.48 | Shadowed | Magic solves everything |
| 06:19.31 | Nom- | lol |
| 06:19.34 | Nom- | Seriously |
| 06:19.44 | Nom- | If you're going to build something, make sure it's portable to all the OSes that run WoW |
| 06:19.47 | Nom- | Mac, Windows and Linux |
| 06:19.51 | bleetah | Shadowed: back to your link/version thiung, I've found if I just stick to the main download link on a page, it handles the 'version' fine, eg: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/download4166-RedRange |
| 06:20.03 | Shirik | In all seriousness though I do take portability very seriously |
| 06:20.03 | bleetah | not just Linux, *BSD, Irix, etc. |
| 06:20.09 | Shadowed | bleetah: What do you mean? |
| 06:20.42 | Nom- | Well, unless you do something really platform dependent, the BSD won't be a problem |
| 06:20.49 | bleetah | Shadowed: *when* the fileserver hands out last modified, all I need is the main download link for wget to work. I don't see what relevence the 'version' has |
| 06:21.23 | Nom- | I *believe* that Java would be slightly easier to handle the cross-platform stuff for all those OSes |
| 06:21.33 | Shirik | it would |
| 06:21.33 | bleetah | unless you wanna get real complicated and be able to revert versions, etc. |
| 06:21.34 | Nom- | The only problem would be locating the WoW Install...I've no idea where it installs on Mac |
| 06:21.36 | Shadowed | bleetah: Ah I mis-read what you said, I though you said WoWI wasn't using last modified |
| 06:21.56 | Shirik | As much as I do dislike Java, I do think it's the most logical choice |
| 06:21.57 | bleetah | Shadowed: the file server doesn't put out the HTTP Last-Modified header |
| 06:22.00 | Shadowed | Nom-: Mac doesn't have some sort of thing like Registery in Windows? |
| 06:22.10 | Shirik | I'm not intending to watch the Last-Modified header actually |
| 06:22.16 | Nom- | Shadowed: It's basically BSD |
| 06:22.18 | raevanmorlock | if onKeyDown fires when a key is pushed down and onKeyUp fires when a key is released... when does onKeyPress fire? |
| 06:22.26 | bleetah | meh, anyways |
| 06:22.26 | Nom- | Net Income |
| 06:22.27 | Nom- | 1720.46 |
| 06:22.29 | Nom- | Woot |
| 06:22.32 | Nom- | Love bonus week :D |
| 06:22.46 | bleetah | I refuse to go to the trouble of installing *other* programs just to install some addon updater that I can write in 10 lines of shell script. |
| 06:22.53 | bleetah | <fin> |
| 06:22.56 | Shirik | the thing is |
| 06:23.04 | Shirik | most people don't have that luxury :P |
| 06:23.13 | Nom- | If you plan to use Java tho...try to make it as pretty as Eclipse |
| 06:23.16 | Shirik | they want something simple, they can click two buttons and have their worries taken away |
| 06:23.20 | Shirik | hehe |
| 06:23.22 | Nom- | I don't know what GUI stuff it uses, but it's really perdy in Windows :p |
| 06:23.24 | Shadowed | The thing I always hated about Java was UI design |
| 06:23.31 | Shadowed | Eclipse has special stuff I believe |
| 06:23.35 | raevanmorlock | click buttons? fuck that.. it should read my mind |
| 06:23.38 | bleetah | if people are running WoW in Wine, one can assume they could do the same for updating. thus, would it be necessary to really have a cross platform updater? |
| 06:23.41 | Nom- | Yah, but it's still Java |
| 06:23.47 | Shadowed | bleetah: Mac users |
| 06:23.47 | Nom- | Java has a tendency to be ugly |
| 06:23.52 | Nom- | Java GUIs that is |
| 06:24.05 | bleetah | Shadowed: my shell script runs fine on MacOS :P |
| 06:24.15 | Shirik | ..... |
| 06:24.15 | bleetah | well, OSX, course it fails miserably on 9 and earlier ;) |
| 06:24.16 | Shirik | screw Sun |
| 06:24.20 | Shadowed | ? |
| 06:24.23 | Shirik | their site is offline I can't get Netbeans >< |
| 06:24.26 | Shirik | I have to break out my laptop now |
| 06:24.26 | Shadowed | haha |
| 06:24.38 | Nom- | I doubt that WoW even runs on OS9 anyway ? |
| 06:24.42 | Shadowed | Depends how much effort you put into it Nom-, I tried to design one a while back and was able to make it look pretty good |
| 06:24.46 | Shadowed | but it's a pain in the ass |
| 06:24.48 | bleetah | Nom-: precisely :) |
| 06:25.24 | Shadowed | I could make a quick script to update all of my mods on WoWI too for Windows, but the majority of the users can't do that Bleetah |
| 06:25.30 | Shadowed | if they could, nobody would want an addon updater :p |
| 06:26.04 | Shirik | most users don't even know what a "shell" is |
| 06:26.18 | Shirik | hell my roommate's a programmer and I told him to use a method ShellExec() yesterday and HE asked "what's a shell" |
| 06:26.20 | Shirik | I slapped him |
| 06:26.54 | bleetah | man shellexec |
| 06:26.54 | bleetah | No manual entry for shellexec |
| 06:26.57 | bleetah | can't blame him :P |
| 06:27.10 | Shirik | I was referring to the java command |
| 06:27.18 | Shirik | I believe it's Runtime.getRuntime().ShellExec() |
| 06:28.23 | bleetah | well, I just think you're crazy for depending on other software to be present and working properly for a proposed addon updater. you're probably asking for all sorts of support hassles. |
| 06:29.00 | Shirik | oh |
| 06:29.06 | Corrodias | every damn time i see Mangle (Cat) i can't help but think Mongle (Cock) |
| 06:29.07 | Shirik | wait what are we talking about here? |
| 06:29.26 | Shirik | ShellExec()? That was with regards to another problem which relied upon internet explorer being present anyway. |
| 06:29.33 | Nom- | The only semi-painful thing is that you'll need to integrate a Unzip method into the program |
| 06:29.34 | Shirik | something my roommate was working on |
| 06:29.45 | Nom- | Since you're not really going to be able to rely on the OS to provide a method for unzipping files |
| 06:29.46 | bleetah | I'm suggesting QT would be the best cross-platform stuff to do a cross platform addon updater with, others are suggesting java |
| 06:29.56 | Shirik | oh |
| 06:30.04 | Corrodias | what is QT? |
| 06:30.11 | Shirik | I've actually never used QT though I've heard about it |
| 06:30.17 | Nom- | Corrodias: It's a cross-platform GUI toolkit |
| 06:30.19 | bleetah | I would suggest GTK, but the immedio guys haven't finished GTK native for OSX yet |
| 06:30.19 | Shadowed | bleetah: I don't think you'll have issues with JAva being a requirement Bleeter |
| 06:30.23 | Shadowed | er bleetah |
| 06:30.36 | Corrodias | who doesn't have java? grandparents. |
| 06:30.45 | Corrodias | do grandparents play WoW? no. gtfo! |
| 06:31.03 | Nom- | Well, from what i've seen from Eclipse, I no longer hate Java |
| 06:31.15 | bleetah | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:31.17 | Nom- | Eclipse is one of the best free IDE's i've ever seen |
| 06:31.18 | bleetah | if not 3 |
| 06:31.35 | bleetah | and maintain bugtracking for such |
| 06:31.38 | Nom- | Windows native JVM could be fun |
| 06:31.45 | Corrodias | lol |
| 06:31.49 | Nom- | It may not even work, but not much you can do for anyone still using that POS |
| 06:31.54 | Shirik | Nom- |
| 06:32.00 | Shirik | Netbeans is a great, free, open-source IDE |
| 06:32.10 | Nom- | Shirik: Doesn't do Perl from what i've seen |
| 06:32.19 | Shirik | Ah, I'm referring to java only |
| 06:32.26 | Nom- | And that's written in Java too :P |
| 06:32.40 | Nom- | Yah, I use Eclipse for it's Perly goodness |
| 06:32.46 | Corrodias | perl is written in java? |
| 06:32.54 | Corrodias | the heavens implode. |
| 06:32.56 | Nom- | No, Netbeans is written in Java |
| 06:33.07 | Corrodias | perl is written in java. |
| 06:33.17 | Shadowed | Eclipse is Java too isn't it |
| 06:33.23 | Nom- | perl is written in C |
| 06:33.24 | Shirik | Java's written in java! |
| 06:33.33 | Corrodias | now, to stop intentionally being incorrect, yes, eclipse is written in java |
| 06:33.38 | Nom- | Yes, Eclipse is Java |
| 06:33.42 | Corrodias | with the SWT library for the GUI, i think |
| 06:33.58 | Nom- | Shirik: Quite possibly...i've not looked |
| 06:34.16 | Shirik | lol that was a joke >< |
| 06:34.22 | Shadowed | He was being sarcastic |
| 06:34.23 | Shadowed | i hope |
| 06:34.38 | Nom- | It's probably true :) |
| 06:35.15 | Nom- | They're looking at writing perl 7 in perl |
| 06:35.34 | Nom- | Because perl 6 is going to be able to formally compile :) |
| 06:35.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nymbia (n=nymbia@71-218-138-197.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 06:35.47 | Nom- | C/C++ compilers are written in C++ |
| 06:35.57 | Nom- | So it wouldn't be out of the question to write a Java VM in Java |
| 06:36.31 | Shadowed | wouldn't that be pretty slow though? |
| 06:37.11 | Shirik | ok so back to the real question at hand |
| 06:37.12 | Nom- | Not really |
| 06:37.15 | Corrodias | at least as fast as .net written in .net would be |
| 06:37.16 | Shirik | QT or JAva |
| 06:37.18 | Shadowed | Java |
| 06:37.25 | Corrodias | i don't know enough about QT to say |
| 06:37.28 | Shirik | Or what I'm really thinking |
| 06:37.30 | Nom- | Java ... makes cross-platform so much easier |
| 06:37.32 | Corrodias | but if it requires people to download something, then java |
| 06:37.36 | Shirik | Write a portable C++ app |
| 06:37.39 | Shirik | for command line use |
| 06:37.43 | Shirik | then figure out GUI from there |
| 06:37.50 | Corrodias | put a frontend on it |
| 06:37.53 | Corrodias | then overhaul the backent |
| 06:38.01 | Corrodias | then replace the steering and the brakes |
| 06:38.15 | Nom- | As long as you write all the code modularly enough, it won't make much difference what it's written in |
| 06:38.30 | Nom- | But I'd start off by using XML feeds to get addon listings, not web site scraping |
| 06:38.35 | Nom- | That'd be the hardest obsticle |
| 06:38.42 | Shirik | but does wowi have xml feeds? |
| 06:38.46 | Shirik | I never bothered to look |
| 06:38.59 | Nom- | I don't think so |
| 06:39.05 | Shadowed | Don't think they do for a specific mod |
| 06:39.07 | Nom- | purl: poke Cairenn |
| 06:39.08 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Cairenn, pokes Cairenn repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 06:39.23 | Shirik | right, which is why I was considering using a regex |
| 06:39.28 | Cairenn | you need to talk to dolby-wowi |
| 06:39.30 | Shirik | to parse the site |
| 06:39.35 | Nom- | purl: poke dolby-wowi |
| 06:39.37 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind dolby-wowi, pokes dolby-wowi repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 06:39.50 | bleetah | I know there's an rss feed |
| 06:39.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bejitt- (n=Bejitt@adsl-152-85-174.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:39.54 | Shirik | which, while it seems like it would be incredibly inefficient |
| 06:40.02 | bleetah | it's linked on planet-warcraft.com |
| 06:40.02 | Cairenn | but actually, I believe that there is a bunch of xml that had been written for the last person that said they were going to do it and then backed out |
| 06:40.18 | Shirik | Cairenn trust me on this one - I don't back out of things easily :P |
| 06:40.25 | bleetah | Cairenn: I haven't backed out, just had other stuff to do in the meantime |
| 06:40.58 | Corrodias | your mom backs out |
| 06:41.05 | dolby-wowi | no shes talking about something else bleetah |
| 06:41.09 | Cairenn | I mean, I wish like hell we could afford to *pay* someone to do it, but we can't, and dolby-wowi just flat out doesn't have the time |
| 06:41.35 | bleetah | Corrodias: please don't insult my mother like that |
| 06:42.00 | Corrodias | please stay off the grass |
| 06:42.02 | bleetah | or, at all, for that matter |
| 06:42.05 | Cairenn | so we have to ask the community to volunteer and we can't very well complain when someone discovers that they no longer have the time or interest or whatever, since they're doing us a favour |
| 06:42.14 | Shadowed | Sure you can |
| 06:42.21 | Cairenn | life happens |
| 06:42.27 | Shadowed | If they ask you for something special for it and then they can't theres nothing wrong with complaining |
| 06:42.50 | Cairenn | We appreciate the fact that people are even willing to consider doing it in the first place |
| 06:43.06 | Shirik | so, dolby-wowi - is there a XML feed I could parse which would indicate anything about the addons to be updated? |
| 06:43.15 | bleetah | there's the rss feed |
| 06:43.18 | bleetah | that I know of |
| 06:43.20 | Shirik | which is where? |
| 06:43.22 | Cairenn | guys, there are so many things we'd love to be able to do - SVN, wiki, uploader, downloader, blahblahblah, but I'm not a programmer and dolby-wowi is only one person |
| 06:43.27 | bleetah | it's linked on planet-warcraft.com |
| 06:43.44 | Shadowed | I wanted to make an uploader that submitted it to all 3 sites one of these days |
| 06:44.12 | Shadowed | but trying to handle different posting methods from all the sites would be interesting |
| 06:44.24 | Shirik | hrm |
| 06:44.28 | bleetah | Shadowed: it's a hell unto itself ;) |
| 06:44.31 | Shirik | reading through that feed doesn't make me too confident tbh >< |
| 06:44.40 | Shadowed | Shirik: got a link? |
| 06:44.45 | Shirik | http://planet-warcraft.com/rss20.xml |
| 06:44.54 | bleetah | no, not that link |
| 06:45.04 | Shirik | hrm which one then? |
| 06:45.08 | Cairenn | I just don't want anyone think I'm dissing them because they decided to back out of it, that's not my style, I've just being stating what happened - my apologies if it came across elsewise |
| 06:45.08 | bleetah | http://www.wowinterface.com/rss/latest.xml |
| 06:45.17 | bleetah | it's on the right side, under the subscriptions etc. |
| 06:45.21 | dolby-wowi | i wrote an entire xml interface for a author uploading program |
| 06:45.36 | Shadowed | bleetah: It could be fun, but I never really learned how to right code in Java that makes it easy for me to have the code and the GUI |
| 06:45.39 | dolby-wowi | if thats what your looking to do? |
| 06:45.40 | bleetah | and dolby was very helpful in getting that rss feed happening |
| 06:45.43 | Shadowed | i'd love to try doing it if I knew how to write code that way |
| 06:45.55 | Shadowed | write even |
| 06:46.17 | Shirik | though I could probably do that too dolby, I was looking into working for an automatic updater for addons downloaded from wowi |
| 06:47.05 | Shadowed | Or even find something that gives information on how to do it actually! |
| 06:47.26 | Nom- | dolby-wowi: We're talking about an XML interface for getting lists of mods for an updater |
| 06:47.47 | dolby-wowi | something like this? |
| 06:47.48 | dolby-wowi | http://www.wowinterface.com/patcher4569.xml |
| 06:48.04 | Shirik | THAT |
| 06:48.06 | Shirik | would be beautiful |
| 06:48.16 | Cairenn | and is, obviously, already written |
| 06:48.20 | dolby-wowi | yep |
| 06:48.28 | dolby-wowi | replace the numbers with any interface id |
| 06:48.43 | Nom- | what about an addon listing ? |
| 06:49.06 | Shirik | the MD5 is the MD5 of the file as downloaded? |
| 06:49.11 | Shirik | like the zip or however else it's contained? |
| 06:49.11 | dolby-wowi | well i want people to come to the site... |
| 06:49.23 | dolby-wowi | md5 of the zipfile |
| 06:49.45 | dolby-wowi | so you can tell if its changed |
| 06:49.51 | Shirik | yup, that's nice |
| 06:50.11 | bleetah | MD5, Java, this is sounding worse by the minute :P |
| 06:50.19 | Shirik | MD5 is eeeassy |
| 06:50.24 | Nom- | MD5 ftw |
| 06:50.35 | Shirik | simple one-way hash, typically for simple encryption or lightweight data integrity checks |
| 06:50.47 | Iriel | Well 'simple' one way hash 8-) |
| 06:50.57 | Iriel | Possibly 'readily available' is a better choice of word |
| 06:51.02 | Shirik | ok |
| 06:51.06 | Shadowed | MD5 in Java was fun to do |
| 06:51.30 | bleetah | I suggest you folks *never* talk to PacoPaco on freenode |
| 06:51.40 | Shirik | you know |
| 06:51.42 | Shirik | by saying that |
| 06:51.45 | Shirik | he probably just got about 20 whispers |
| 06:53.15 | bleetah | meh |
| 06:53.34 | bleetah | He's one of the lead gaim guys, has been for years. he's no doubt used to it to some degree. |
| 06:54.04 | Nom- | So why wouldn't you talk to him? |
| 06:55.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik_Ghost (n=nospam@rrcs-67-78-171-230.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 06:56.04 | bleetah | heh, let's just say.. he's more oppinionated about stuff than me |
| 06:56.15 | bleetah | and he actually comprehends why, and can explain, etc. etc. ;) |
| 06:56.26 | Shirik | stupid brighthouse >.> |
| 06:56.36 | Shirik | if any of you ever come to florida... NEVER get brighthouse if you can avoid it |
| 06:56.37 | Nom- | meh |
| 06:56.44 | Shirik | why do I still get "nickname Shirik" is in use |
| 06:56.46 | Shirik | oh other server |
| 06:57.15 | Iriel | brighthouse? |
| 06:57.21 | Nom- | Shirik: If you get cracking on this thingy give me a yell |
| 06:57.22 | Shirik | my cable company |
| 06:57.29 | Iriel | Ah |
| 06:57.29 | Shirik | I'm already starting to crack on it :P |
| 06:57.40 | Nom- | Work out a design and stuff, and it'll give me a chance to lern2java XD |
| 06:57.59 | Shirik | I'm thinking about going with a C++, portable command line, then adding a GUI interface to use it (perhaps in java) |
| 06:58.00 | bleetah | basically, you don't spend 10 years in OSS cross-platform client development without seeing every hair brained scheme and suggestion, getting jaded and opinionated |
| 06:58.06 | Nom- | Going for language number 6 I think it'll be |
| 06:58.18 | Nom- | Perl, PHP, VB, ASM, C/C++ |
| 06:58.20 | Nom- | Yeah, should be 6 |
| 06:59.04 | Iriel | You have to specify WHICH ASM |
| 06:59.06 | Corrodias | i feel so wimpy, not knowing much about these other languages |
| 06:59.07 | Iriel | You get a point for each |
| 06:59.18 | Shirik | 68000, IA32, Z80, 68HCS12 |
| 06:59.21 | Shirik | for me |
| 06:59.34 | Iriel | Good old Z80 |
| 06:59.34 | Nom- | Just the one for me :( |
| 06:59.41 | Iriel | I did 6502 instead of Z80 |
| 06:59.47 | bleetah | 6502 ftw! |
| 06:59.53 | Shirik | then along with C/C++, PHP, BASIC, and Java |
| 07:00.00 | bleetah | my 6502 has a Z80 hanging off the side |
| 07:00.02 | Shirik | and I don't count HTML/JS as "real" languages |
| 07:00.12 | Nom- | I could never bring myself to learn Java |
| 07:00.17 | Nom- | I just dispised it for so long |
| 07:00.17 | bleetah | ruby |
| 07:00.24 | bleetah | tcl/tk |
| 07:00.25 | Shirik | (01:57:47) (Nom-) Work out a design and stuff, and it'll give me a chance to lern2java XD |
| 07:00.26 | Shirik | ?? |
| 07:00.30 | bleetah | jade |
| 07:00.35 | Iriel | bleetah: What kind of 6502/Z80 combo is that? |
| 07:00.36 | bleetah | fortran, algol, ada |
| 07:00.54 | Nom- | ie. Work out how you want to do it |
| 07:00.57 | bleetah | Iriel: the Acorn series developerd for the BBC computers in school program |
| 07:00.58 | Iriel | I still have a bad taste in my mouth from tcl/tk |
| 07:01.02 | Nom- | Assign me something trivial to learn ^_^ |
| 07:01.08 | Shirik | ahhh |
| 07:01.14 | Iriel | bleetah: Aha, I figured that was it.. I used to know every circuit trace in a BBC Model B |
| 07:01.14 | bleetah | Iriel: not sure what they were called in the US, didn't sell well. |
| 07:01.40 | bleetah | Iriel: hey, you pay shipping.. I'll send you a free model B.. think I've got a drive or two kicking round here as well.. dunno if the drive works |
| 07:01.41 | Iriel | bleetah: I still have my (somewhat modified) bbc back in my parents' attic |
| 07:01.46 | bleetah | bah |
| 07:02.03 | bleetah | but you *ain't* gettins the 80186 co-pro |
| 07:02.05 | Shirik | dolby-wowi: do you have an XML file perhaps with all of the addon names in one? |
| 07:02.14 | bleetah | that's a-mine 'til the end of time |
| 07:02.19 | Shirik | or just an XML file for each addon? |
| 07:02.30 | Iriel | I never got the coprocessor, I did end up with a bunch of interesting peripherals over the years |
| 07:02.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nymbia (n=nymbia@71-218-138-197.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 07:02.38 | Iriel | Graphics tablet, Music synth, etc |
| 07:02.42 | bleetah | they were the best for hardware tinkering |
| 07:02.57 | Iriel | It was great, a computer you could FULLY understand, every chip, every byte of O/S |
| 07:03.03 | Shirik | hehe |
| 07:03.03 | Nom- | Shirik: If you're going to break it down into two applications, you'd probably want to push the logic for determining applications to update to the frontend |
| 07:03.08 | bleetah | drop into assembler in the middle of your BASIC |
| 07:03.10 | bleetah | yup |
| 07:03.19 | Shirik | yeah I'm thinking the same |
| 07:03.35 | bleetah | Iriel: *and* networked, too :) |
| 07:03.46 | Iriel | Indeed, I did a bunch of econet stuff |
| 07:03.50 | Nom- | The backend should just do a version comparison, download the update and md5check it and unzip it etc |
| 07:03.55 | Nom- | There's enough logic in doing that much |
| 07:04.07 | bleetah | i used the cassette relay to trigger a video recorder, did 3d wireframe animations |
| 07:04.17 | Nom- | having said that, you'll still need some kind of config on a backend app, because you need to know where WoW is installed |
| 07:04.17 | bleetah | buckets of fun |
| 07:04.31 | Shadowed | You can get where WoW is installed pretty easly on Windows i'd imagine |
| 07:04.32 | Nom- | That's why I thought Java would be easier |
| 07:04.41 | Iriel | Nobody in the US i've ever met has seen a BBC, it's kind of sad. |
| 07:04.42 | Shirik | Shadowed: Not if you intend to keep it portable |
| 07:04.49 | Nom- | When it comes to dealing with filesystems, Java is a little bit more generic |
| 07:04.53 | Shirik | you can't access the registry |
| 07:04.58 | bleetah | i'm pretty sure that the wow watcher app has that kinda foo somewhere |
| 07:05.03 | bleetah | maybe not.. but.. meh |
| 07:05.12 | Shadowed | You can't? I could swear you had a way of accessing it in Java even if it was just to help out and auto-detect |
| 07:05.23 | Shirik | Java's JVM, I believe, handles that for you |
| 07:05.25 | Nom- | Yeah you can Shadowed, but it's not cross platform |
| 07:05.26 | bleetah | Iriel: US was more TRaSh-80's at the time, iirc, and C= PETs |
| 07:05.26 | Iriel | You only have to tell it where WoW is _once_ anyway |
| 07:05.34 | Shirik | in C++, you'd have to include Windows' header files |
| 07:05.43 | Iriel | Shirik: Well, the C-64 was also that era |
| 07:05.47 | Shadowed | Nom-: I meant mostly to try and auto-detect it and just fall back to letting the user choose it otherwise |
| 07:05.50 | Iriel | Oops, wrong reply-to-person 8-) |
| 07:05.55 | Shirik | yeah I was like... |
| 07:05.57 | Shirik | huh? |
| 07:05.59 | Nom- | Yes, and you'd have to put a buttload of windows specific includes in there for Windows/Mac/Linux |
| 07:06.15 | Nom- | Because you don't *really* want to run the Linux version under Xine, do you? :P |
| 07:06.18 | Nom- | Wine sorry |
| 07:06.21 | Tem | Anyone around very familliar with TeX? |
| 07:06.42 | Shadowed | Yeah I wasn't sure if you could do it by default or if it required a seperate library |
| 07:06.43 | Iriel | Tem: Only very slightly, as mentioned earlier, I have the TeXBook around somewhere tho |
| 07:06.53 | Shadowed | Never got around to playing with that area |
| 07:07.00 | bleetah | 'cept QT handles a lot of that for you... /sigh |
| 07:07.06 | Tem | My entire document is an enumeration |
| 07:07.20 | Tem | normally when you \begin{enumeration} it indents |
| 07:07.26 | Tem | so my entire document is indented |
| 07:07.36 | Tem | so it's off-center |
| 07:07.46 | Tem | I'm trying to figure out how to correct that |
| 07:07.48 | Nom- | \end{enumeration} ? |
| 07:07.50 | Nom- | :P |
| 07:08.06 | Tem | the whole thing is an enumeration |
| 07:08.13 | Tem | there is no text outside of it |
| 07:08.17 | Tem | (except for the title) |
| 07:09.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Segatron (n=MrX@217.118.90.41) |
| 07:10.01 | Tem | hmm, maybe if I made the left margin really small, it would *seem* like the indents weren't there |
| 07:10.11 | Tem | but that seems halla hacky |
| 07:12.01 | Tem | s/halla/hella/ |
| 07:12.24 | Iriel | Can't you redefine it's indentation once it begins? |
| 07:12.54 | Tem | I tried nesting a \being{fushleft} but that just spit errors |
| 07:12.55 | Cairenn | and if you guys would care to help another author out with a research project they are doing: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=47108#post47108 |
| 07:13.29 | Tem | \begin{flushleft}* |
| 07:14.21 | Shirik | ... |
| 07:14.23 | Shirik | "How many AddOns have you written or worked on but no longer support or maintain?" |
| 07:14.25 | Shirik | there's no option for 0 |
| 07:15.15 | Shirik | and survey complete :) |
| 07:22.18 | bleetah | oh crap.. so, I was having a nice /privmsg with someone here, and I died.. nm, autorun to corpse... two zones later, I do a 180 and head back |
| 07:23.01 | Shirik | wow |
| 07:23.06 | Shirik | that deserves a gg right there |
| 07:23.33 | bleetah | it was a very good convo, far better than some lame game :P |
| 07:25.11 | Corrodias | WoW is not lame |
| 07:25.22 | Corrodias | i may have spent all day killing ogres and clefthoofs, but it was fulfilling |
| 07:25.24 | Corrodias | i've never felt so alive! |
| 07:25.34 | Shirik | that's only because everything else is so dead |
| 07:25.52 | Corrodias | after i was finished Mongling it, it was |
| 07:26.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0739.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:27.58 | Cairenn | ARGH ... I am _so_ going to regret this ... after you finish [what]ing it? |
| 07:28.19 | Corrodias | http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1172731595050.jpg |
| 07:28.24 | Corrodias | Mangling it |
| 07:28.28 | Corrodias | you know, Mangle (Cat) |
| 07:28.39 | Cairenn | oh god no, not clicking that link, came from 4chan? no way! |
| 07:29.40 | Cairenn | I may be stupid, but I'm not _that_ stupid |
| 07:30.38 | Corrodias | also, http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1172732155917.gif |
| 07:30.44 | Tem | it's pretty bad, Cair, but it's not _that_ bad |
| 07:31.14 | Cairenn | I'll just go ahead and take your word for it |
| 07:32.08 | Tem | it's actually kinda funny |
| 07:32.14 | Tem | the second one is more tame |
| 07:32.30 | Corrodias | comics |
| 07:32.39 | Tem | neither has anything that will make you reel away from your screen afraid to look at the internet for weeks at a time |
| 07:33.43 | Corrodias | those are fun |
| 07:34.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tierrie (n=tierrie@adsl-68-126-193-173.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 07:35.07 | AnduinLothar | AddOn Authors, one and all: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79225533 |
| 07:35.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [dRaCo] (i=drc@p5485AAD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:35.21 | Shirik | heh |
| 07:35.24 | Shirik | sorry took it already |
| 07:35.28 | Shirik | like... 15 minutes ago |
| 07:35.49 | Cairenn | lol AnduinLothar, already spammed it in here from the post on WoWI |
| 07:35.59 | AnduinLothar | ahh, my bad |
| 07:35.59 | Cairenn | :) |
| 07:36.05 | Cairenn | naw, no worries |
| 07:36.15 | AnduinLothar | i really should scroll up befor ei open my mouth |
| 07:37.30 | Tierrie | I have a pasty -- http://wowi.pastey.net/7418, how do I access the Button's text? http://wowi.pastey.net/7419 |
| 07:38.54 | Shadowed | AnduinLothar:A lready did :p |
| 07:39.08 | AnduinLothar | thx! |
| 07:39.56 | Shirik | CHUDConfigFrameHeaderTemplate? |
| 07:40.10 | Shirik | which button? |
| 07:40.31 | Shirik | well put simply |
| 07:40.34 | Shirik | it's Button:GetText(); |
| 07:44.22 | Iriel | Sleep time for me! |
| 07:44.28 | Shirik | night :) |
| 07:44.40 | Tierrie | can't seem to access the button :P |
| 07:44.43 | Cairenn | night Iriel, sweet dreams |
| 07:44.48 | Tierrie | cya Iriel |
| 07:44.56 | Shirik | what do you mean? |
| 07:44.58 | Shirik | it's nil? |
| 07:45.00 | bleetah | nn Iriel |
| 07:45.01 | Tierrie | yes |
| 07:45.07 | Shirik | are you sure your XML is parsing properly? |
| 07:45.12 | Tierrie | getglobal() is getting nil |
| 07:45.15 | Tierrie | I think my XML is.... |
| 07:45.28 | Shirik | what does FrameXML.log say? |
| 07:45.32 | Tierrie | otherwise config_frame:X() would have thrown an error |
| 07:46.06 | Shirik | are those in, perhaps, an OnLoad handler which would have never been called? |
| 07:46.07 | Tierrie | there's no error there |
| 07:46.16 | Shirik | ok, pastey your xml |
| 07:46.22 | Shirik | and what you tried to do to get the text |
| 07:46.33 | Shirik | well you already pasteyed your xml |
| 07:46.41 | Shirik | so what exactly did you do to try to get the text? |
| 07:47.10 | Tierrie | that would be in 7419 |
| 07:48.05 | Shirik | I don't see anything trying to get text :/ |
| 07:48.26 | Tierrie | I tried getglobal() on the text |
| 07:48.33 | Shirik | oh |
| 07:48.35 | Shirik | you mean this: local title_text = getglobal("CHUDModeConfigFrameHeaderText"); |
| 07:48.38 | Tierrie | yeap |
| 07:48.42 | Shirik | btw that's redundant |
| 07:48.52 | Shirik | you could logically do local title_text = CHUDModeConfigFrameHeaderText; |
| 07:48.55 | Shirik | but no matter |
| 07:49.07 | Tierrie | nifty k |
| 07:49.20 | Shirik | So this gives you an error>> title_text:SetText("Hello World"); |
| 07:49.24 | Tierrie | yeap |
| 07:49.28 | Tierrie | title_text is nil |
| 07:49.30 | Shirik | title_text - attempt to index a nil value? |
| 07:49.30 | Shirik | ok |
| 07:50.02 | Shirik | oh |
| 07:50.03 | Shirik | that's because |
| 07:50.13 | Shirik | that would be the wrong name |
| 07:50.16 | Shirik | it would be CHUDConfigFrameHeaderTemplateText |
| 07:50.28 | Shirik | or |
| 07:50.32 | Shirik | CHUDConfigFrameHeaderTemplateHeaderText |
| 07:50.32 | Shirik | rather |
| 07:50.58 | Shirik | hrm |
| 07:51.03 | Shirik | perhaps it would be better if.... ok do this |
| 07:51.16 | Shirik | just try real quick, CHUDConfigFrameHeaderTemplateHeaderText:Show(); |
| 07:51.19 | Shirik | just to see if that's nil |
| 07:51.24 | Tierrie | trying it |
| 07:51.27 | Shirik | if it is, then paste your entire xml so I can see it |
| 07:52.29 | Tierrie | http://wowi.pastey.net/7421 |
| 07:52.40 | Tierrie | there's no error in framexml |
| 07:52.56 | Shirik | yeah but I want to see what your xml looks like :P |
| 07:53.01 | Shirik | paste your xml so I can see exactly what the name is |
| 07:53.05 | Shirik | I see you used $parent |
| 07:54.02 | Tierrie | The parent is created in lua, at http://wowi.pastey.net/7421 line 3 |
| 07:54.52 | Shirik | OH |
| 07:54.55 | Shirik | I see what you're doing now |
| 07:55.15 | Tierrie | figured out the variable text name --> CHUDModeConfigFrameHeaderHeaderText |
| 07:55.18 | Tierrie | d'oh! |
| 07:55.35 | Shirik | yeah |
| 07:55.39 | Shirik | I think |
| 07:55.42 | Tierrie | making that button anonymous now |
| 07:55.42 | Shirik | you meant $parentText |
| 07:55.46 | Shirik | not $parentHeaderText |
| 07:56.03 | Shirik | but.. up to you :) |
| 07:56.08 | Tierrie | kk thanks |
| 07:56.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Srosh (n=Srosh@c210217.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:01.20 | Nom- | maudit |
| 08:02.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elessdy (n=no@207-118-211-100.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 08:03.17 | Nom- | crisse de maudit |
| 08:03.51 | Elessdy | Nom- had a bad day. |
| 08:03.59 | Elessdy | someone stole his internetpod! |
| 08:04.33 | Shirik | vous parlez français? |
| 08:05.20 | Nom- | pas vraiment, juste pour le blasphème. |
| 08:05.32 | Shirik | ha |
| 08:06.41 | bleetah | Tu as déjà une petite tête, pourquoi veux-tu du riz? |
| 08:06.58 | Tierrie | is there a frame attribute for button that disables it? disable no worky |
| 08:07.40 | Tierrie | or do i need to do an <OnLoad> this:Disable()</OnLoad> |
| 08:08.01 | Shirik | I would do that |
| 08:08.11 | Shirik | except I do most of my frame creation in Lua |
| 08:08.19 | Shirik | so it would be more of something like f = CreateFrame(); f:Disable(); |
| 08:08.21 | Shirik | but same difference |
| 08:08.29 | Cairenn | night all |
| 08:08.32 | Shirik | night |
| 08:08.36 | Elessdy | Michael Jackson - Smooth Criminal (Moonwalker version).mpg |
| 08:08.50 | Nom- | Le copy et la pate du google ne fonctionne pas bien. |
| 08:09.03 | Shirik | pourquoi pas? |
| 08:09.37 | bleetah | nn Cairenn|afk |
| 08:10.02 | Nom- | Bien, il regarde tres mauvais sur mon ecran au moins. |
| 08:10.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@g173217.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 08:10.17 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 08:10.46 | Shirik | .. huh? |
| 08:11.00 | Nom- | Je maintenant dois donner loin plus de l'argent de ma compagnie, parce que nous avons fait un desordre des choses. |
| 08:11.19 | Shirik | are you like throwing these into an automatic translator |
| 08:11.23 | Shirik | because they don't entirely make sense :P |
| 08:11.59 | Nom- | Translating from french to english using google and stuff like that screws things up majorly |
| 08:12.11 | Shirik | (03:08:57) (Nom-) Le copy et la pate du google ne fonctionne pas bien. |
| 08:12.13 | Shirik | that was pretty good |
| 08:12.49 | Shirik | I would probably say "Le copy et pate de Google ne fonctionne pas bien" |
| 08:12.51 | raevanmorlock | Yo quiero sacapuntas. |
| 08:15.10 | Shirik | "Find something romantic to do! Don't let your imagination stop you." |
| 08:15.30 | Nom- | I wouldn't mind learning french properly |
| 08:15.35 | Nom- | More than just the profanities :) |
| 08:16.08 | raevanmorlock | Quiero sacapuntas! |
| 08:17.00 | Nom- | Au revoir |
| 08:17.16 | bleetah | monsieur, vous est de connard! (I was told this was probably the best insult for a non-french speaking person to say, because it'll make the intended victim blink a little in disbelief) |
| 08:17.17 | Shirik | a bientot |
| 08:17.18 | Nom- | temps a aller a la maison |
| 08:17.26 | bleetah | tchuss! |
| 08:17.26 | Shirik | hahaha |
| 08:17.48 | Shirik | that is pretty good |
| 08:18.01 | Shirik | though |
| 08:18.06 | Shirik | "de connard" doesn't make much sense |
| 08:18.13 | Shirik | "un connard" perhaps |
| 08:18.16 | Shirik | connard is a verb |
| 08:18.20 | raevanmorlock | you're a jerk? |
| 08:18.21 | bleetah | yeah, well memory's a bit scratchy, was taught it about 8 years ago |
| 08:18.35 | bleetah | it's more like 'dickhead'.. or even stronger |
| 08:18.39 | bleetah | babelfish is kind ;) |
| 08:18.47 | raevanmorlock | I'm usin google |
| 08:18.49 | Shirik | it's.... really not translatable to english |
| 08:19.01 | bleetah | hehe yar, that's what Sebastien said |
| 08:19.13 | Shirik | "dickhead" is pretty good |
| 08:19.31 | raevanmorlock | French people don't have a word for the head of a penis? |
| 08:19.45 | bleetah | he was teaching this Irish guy I also worked with, who was doing his French Doctorate (the irish guy could speak about 10 languages fluently,.. bastard) how to *properly* speak french, as opposed to by-the-book french |
| 08:20.11 | Shirik | raevanmorlock: they do |
| 08:20.12 | Shirik | but... |
| 08:20.19 | Shirik | we don't really have a word for "connard" |
| 08:20.27 | bleetah | needsless to say, lots of eau-de-vie was involved that night : |
| 08:20.55 | bleetah | and the *truly* amusing thing, was that the trainer for the software, flown over from Australia.. was Mr. Connard |
| 08:21.03 | Shirik | HAHAHA |
| 08:21.11 | raevanmorlock | I don't get how we can't have a word for it.. there's a word for everything. |
| 08:21.18 | Shirik | not really |
| 08:21.23 | raevanmorlock | nice |
| 08:21.30 | Shirik | because it's not really a word |
| 08:21.31 | Shirik | it's slang |
| 08:22.15 | raevanmorlock | Know any English words that can't be translated to French? |
| 08:22.43 | Elessdy | mongle? |
| 08:23.08 | bleetah | I know words in English that... mistranslate when going to French |
| 08:23.18 | raevanmorlock | What's a mongle? lol |
| 08:23.37 | bleetah | that's to say, don't be shocked when your french boss asks you to go to the tampon shop |
| 08:23.47 | raevanmorlock | lol nice |
| 08:24.05 | bleetah | i'm *still* to this day, boggled as to how that word 'drifted' to mean such different things (if drift's involved at all) |
| 08:24.31 | raevanmorlock | What's it mean in France? |
| 08:24.48 | bleetah | stamp (ie, ink and woodblock/rubber) |
| 08:24.50 | bleetah | iirc |
| 08:25.15 | raevanmorlock | well I dunno what that is either |
| 08:25.40 | bleetah | oh, plug.. hmm.. well, in marseille, there's definately a stamp shop with 'tampon' on the front window |
| 08:26.08 | raevanmorlock | Maybe it's the owner's name? |
| 08:26.10 | bleetah | not as amusing as the shop in iceland, 'www.pen.is', though.. I'll let you guess what it sold ;) |
| 08:26.21 | raevanmorlock | pens? |
| 08:26.26 | Shirik | www.penisland.com |
| 08:26.30 | Shirik | real site |
| 08:26.33 | raevanmorlock | pen island |
| 08:26.34 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 08:26.44 | Shirik | er wait |
| 08:26.47 | Shirik | www.penisland.net? |
| 08:26.53 | Shirik | that's it |
| 08:26.56 | bleetah | something like that |
| 08:26.56 | Shirik | www.penisland.net |
| 08:27.11 | Shirik | great company, horrible name |
| 08:27.21 | raevanmorlock | You guys couldn't of mentioned these a half hour ago when my friend was on? Sheesh.. |
| 08:27.34 | Cairenn|afk | http://blog.dreamhosters.com/2006/07/26/top-10-worst-domain-names/ |
| 08:27.35 | raevanmorlock | What's wrong with penis land? C'mon.. that's a great name. |
| 08:27.43 | Cairenn|afk | http://blog.dreamhosters.com/2007/01/26/20-more-unfortunate-domain-names/ |
| 08:28.02 | Shirik | ironically cairenn |
| 08:28.12 | Shirik | I used to be one of the guys at expertsexchange |
| 08:28.18 | Shirik | and I never caught on to that until someone brought it up |
| 08:28.19 | bleetah | mate of mine (was) waiting for the iraqi tld to become available, so he could register www.no.iq and put a photo of GWB on it |
| 08:28.26 | raevanmorlock | lol took me a few seconds on that one |
| 08:28.52 | Tierrie | you know those things in WoW that looks like <SELECT><Option><Option></SELECT>? Does anyone know which frame that inherits? |
| 08:29.04 | Tierrie | off the top of your head, as I go knee deep in code >_< |
| 08:29.28 | bleetah | sorry Tierrie, I'm mostly a just a clueless luser |
| 08:29.34 | Shirik | if you really want me to answer that tierrie |
| 08:29.38 | Tierrie | its one of those UIDropDownListTemplate() things |
| 08:29.41 | Shirik | I don't use any WoW frame to do that |
| 08:29.41 | Tierrie | I just am not sure which one |
| 08:29.56 | Shirik | I make a clickable frame, and then a scroll list to appear when it's clicked |
| 08:30.01 | Tierrie | oh np I am reading the code atm, I just want to see if anyone knew off the top of their heads |
| 08:30.10 | raevanmorlock | what's ipanywhere.com supposed to be? |
| 08:30.28 | Shadowed | So another odd question. Is it possible to compare textures, eg mouseover a pet compare it's character portrait to a voidwalker and so on to try and identify type |
| 08:30.33 | Shadowed | raevanmorlock: I pee anywhere |
| 08:30.37 | Shadowed | is what it basically means |
| 08:30.44 | Shadowed | s/means/reads out as/ |
| 08:30.46 | Shirik | ... why? |
| 08:31.02 | raevanmorlock | Shadowed: ooh.. yeah, like those last 2-3 were lame |
| 08:31.16 | Shirik | if you know where the portrait is |
| 08:31.24 | Shirik | you should be able to identify it using UnitIsUnit() |
| 08:31.50 | Shadowed | Shirik: I'm trying to compare a portrait to another, not a unit to another |
| 08:32.03 | Shirik | to see if, say, your mouseover is a voidwalker? |
| 08:32.06 | Shadowed | was playing around with the idea of being able to detect what kind of pet a warlock has out by mousing over it for arenas |
| 08:32.10 | Shadowed | yeah pretty muc |
| 08:32.11 | Shadowed | h |
| 08:32.34 | Shadowed | i'm pretty sure you can't do it, but figured maybe someone has tried it before! |
| 08:32.49 | Shirik | GetPetIcon() |
| 08:32.52 | Shirik | will return the path |
| 08:32.58 | Shirik | you could compare the paths to each other |
| 08:34.17 | Shadowed | Thats the path of your pet though |
| 08:34.43 | Shadowed | goal would be any class like a Warrior can just mouseover a pet and it can figure out what type it is, I was playing with checking classes originally but they overlap at times |
| 08:35.04 | Shirik | well it has to be possible because there's a macro conditional for it: [pet:cat] for example |
| 08:35.18 | Shirik | I'm sure they don't go about using textures to figure it out |
| 08:35.32 | raevanmorlock | Couldn't you step through the object UIParent:Child():Child():Child()... until you identify a pet frame and then step through that to find the object holding the icon and get its path? |
| 08:35.53 | Arrowmaster | its something with familytype |
| 08:36.11 | Shadowed | Shirik: But thats for the players pet I believe? |
| 08:36.20 | Shirik | it is, but I'm hoping it can be applied to any pet |
| 08:36.37 | Arrowmaster | but that is |
| 08:36.59 | Shadowed | I didn't think of familytype acutally |
| 08:37.01 | Arrowmaster | UnitCreatureFamily() |
| 08:37.07 | Shirik | I thought about that for a second |
| 08:37.08 | Shirik | but |
| 08:37.15 | Shirik | wouldn't that just return "beast" or something similar |
| 08:37.18 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 08:37.21 | Shirik | "demon" for warlocks |
| 08:37.33 | Arrowmaster | thats UnitCreatureType() |
| 08:37.46 | Shirik | ah that's right |
| 08:38.55 | raevanmorlock | PetPortrait:GetTexture() ? |
| 08:39.13 | Shadowed | Thats players pet I believe |
| 08:39.47 | raevanmorlock | Use Iriel's tool thingy and find teh name of the frames for other people's pets and check their textures |
| 08:40.47 | raevanmorlock | there's a PartyMemberPetFrameTemplate with a $parentPortrait texture |
| 08:40.54 | Shadowed | Actually I think Arrowmaster is right |
| 08:41.00 | Arrowmaster | i am |
| 08:41.01 | Shadowed | UnitCreatureType() returns "Felguard" |
| 08:41.05 | Shirik | hot |
| 08:41.08 | Arrowmaster | because i copied that directly from wowwiki |
| 08:41.20 | Arrowmaster | UnitCreatureFamily("unit") - Returns the type of creature of the specified unit (e.g., "Crab") |
| 08:41.44 | Shadowed | Yeah I though it returned something more generic for Warlock pets, not the actual type |
| 08:41.50 | Shirik | does anyone else think this is unreadable: |
| 08:41.54 | Shirik | n <<= n;// Arithmetic shift left |
| 08:41.55 | Shirik | n |= atoi(buf[x]); |
| 08:41.59 | Arrowmaster | UnitCreatureType("unit") - Returns the classification type of creature of the specified unit (e.g., "Beast") |
| 08:42.00 | Shirik | (the blocks are just tabs) |
| 08:42.19 | raevanmorlock | I can read it... don't understand it |
| 08:42.35 | Shirik | I meant more of a... is it too asoteric |
| 08:42.38 | Shirik | esoteric* |
| 08:42.41 | Shirik | however you spell that word |
| 08:42.53 | Shadowed | Arrowmaster, yeah I know it doesn't now :p |
| 08:43.08 | raevanmorlock | Well I don't understand it.. so yes :P |
| 08:44.03 | raevanmorlock | well if my work here is done, I'm off to bed |
| 08:44.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@207-118-219-38.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 08:44.16 | raevanmorlock | to not be seen for another few months |
| 08:44.54 | raevanmorlock | good night, peoples |
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| 08:49.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Rophy (n=Miranda@61-225-20-106.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 08:50.08 | Rophy | anyone know if it is safe (about tainting) to use UIDropDownMenu or not ? |
| 08:51.06 | Shirik | sure if you're just using it |
| 08:51.22 | Shirik | typically the only time you have to worry about tainting is if you're modifying blizzard code, such as hooking it |
| 08:53.02 | Rophy | by "use" I mean using the menu in my mod, which actually taints the DropDown1List["value"] etc. |
| 08:53.24 | Shirik | mm |
| 08:53.48 | Shirik | I imagine Blizzard would have to go back and do a DropDown1List["value"] = whatever for their code |
| 08:53.53 | Shirik | which would resecure it |
| 08:54.12 | Shirik | taints occur when an insecure variable is used as an r-value in secure code |
| 08:54.21 | Shirik | they shouldn't occur if they're an l-value |
| 08:55.03 | Shirik | I should point out I haven't read up on UIDropDownMenu |
| 08:55.13 | Shadowed | You used to be able to taint the dropdowns by changing only the text actually |
| 08:55.35 | Shirik | "used" ? |
| 08:55.36 | Shadowed | hence why StartDuel and PetDismiss had to be changed since it was easy to taint dropdowns |
| 08:56.10 | Rophy | so the dropdowns cannot be tainted? (which means I shouldn't use the UIDropDownMenu in any user mod at all) |
| 08:56.19 | Rophy | I mean should not |
| 08:56.37 | Shirik | I like my dropdown menus |
| 08:56.39 | Shadowed | If you're creating your own dropdowns you will not have to worry about tainting |
| 08:57.24 | Rophy | I'm following the guidelines here http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Use_UIDropDownMenu |
| 08:57.31 | Rophy | not creating my own one. |
| 08:57.42 | Shadowed | Sorry thats what I meant |
| 08:58.00 | Shadowed | If you're creating your own using the Blizzard UIDropDownMenu stuff then no, you don't need to worry about taint |
| 08:58.52 | Rophy | it actaully taints the default drop down boxes though, the info.value etc got passed to the dropdowns. I want to make sure I'm doing the correct thing. |
| 08:59.21 | Shadowed | I don't see why they would |
| 08:59.22 | Shirik | Unhandled exception at 0x00424ed9 in WoWIUpdater.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0xcccccccc. |
| 08:59.40 | Shadowed | way to go Shirik! |
| 08:59.42 | Shirik | I think it's too late to work on this |
| 08:59.51 | Shirik | but... the wowiupdater.exe exists! |
| 08:59.54 | Shirik | It just doesn't function |
| 09:00.15 | Shirik | though I do recognize 0xcccccccc as an uninitialized pointer |
| 09:00.38 | Shadowed | Rophy: All the UIDropDownMenu functions do is setup and handle your drop downs, you can't cause taint by using them for your own |
| 09:01.09 | Shadowed | so no, i'm fairly sure you wont cause taint following the HOWTO example you posted |
| 09:01.18 | Shadowed | s/no/yes/ |
| 09:01.40 | Rophy | hmm.... if you check the blizzard code, they do something like this when you call UIDRopDownMenu_AddButton(): button.value = info.value |
| 09:02.01 | Rophy | which the taint checking mods such as Taint checker will complain. |
| 09:02.21 | Shadowed | They do? |
| 09:02.22 | Shadowed | hrm |
| 09:02.33 | Shadowed | Would have to ask somebody whos done more work with the taint stuff then |
| 09:02.42 | Rophy | ya... so I'm asking here :p |
| 09:03.11 | Shadowed | i'm pretty sure the people who know more about it are sleeping actually :p |
| 09:03.24 | Rophy | it's 5pm here :\ |
| 09:04.08 | Shadowed | 1 AM PST, 3something AM EST |
| 09:05.25 | Rophy | I guess I have to assume it's safe to do so for now. Like you said, I don't see why it would cause harm in theory. |
| 09:11.17 | Shirik | right I'm going to head off to bed for a few hours |
| 09:11.19 | Shirik | take care |
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| 09:45.44 | Shikatanai | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ |
| 09:46.10 | Corrodias | as the page loads, i say to myself, i can't wait to see what wacky thing blizzard thinks we want to see now |
| 09:46.34 | Corrodias | whoa |
| 09:46.37 | Shikatanai | yeah |
| 09:46.44 | nevcairiel | wow |
| 09:46.49 | Shikatanai | yep |
| 09:46.55 | Shikatanai | go ahead and get that put in the topic |
| 09:47.12 | Corrodias | go ahead and get that tattood on my ass |
| 09:47.23 | Shikatanai | go ahead and click the talent build numbers on anyone |
| 09:47.26 | Corrodias | except... i just searched and got a blank brown wooden background image |
| 09:47.27 | Shikatanai | go ahead, do it |
| 09:47.29 | nevcairiel | yay |
| 09:47.36 | nevcairiel | my 5v5 team is rank1 on my realm |
| 09:47.38 | nevcairiel | i am amazed |
| 09:47.42 | Corrodias | oh, that's better |
| 09:47.58 | bleetah | let alone comprehend it's meaning |
| 09:48.11 | Corrodias | hodamn, there are lots of guilds with our name |
| 09:48.18 | nevcairiel | wow thats so cool |
| 09:49.30 | Shikatanai | buffs on a player update on the right of their gear |
| 09:49.34 | Shikatanai | they update every 10 minutes so |
| 09:49.42 | Shikatanai | if you have two terminals |
| 09:49.53 | Shikatanai | when you see someone you want to gank or if you get ganked you can pull them up quick |
| 09:49.56 | Corrodias | well, clicking on my guild gives me the blank page again... let's see what IE does |
| 09:50.15 | Shikatanai | see their buffs, their talent spec, everything |
| 09:50.56 | Shadowed | bleetah: Considering how many people complain about changes on PTRs |
| 09:50.58 | Shadowed | i'd say a lot of people |
| 09:51.11 | bleetah | Shadowed: indeed |
| 09:51.13 | Shikatanai | now they just need to link an accounts characters all together so i can see whose alt that is being annoying in org general |
| 09:51.25 | bleetah | it'll be interesting to see whether there'll be an opt out, or opt in, for the armory. |
| 09:51.31 | Shadowed | Shikatanai: stop overreacting... |
| 09:51.39 | Corrodias | okay, it's actually nonfunctional in IE |
| 09:51.40 | Shikatanai | i'm not over reacting |
| 09:51.45 | Shikatanai | i love it |
| 09:51.53 | Shadowed | Corrodias: works fine in IE7 |
| 09:51.53 | bleetah | I can guess some PvP realm players won't be too happy with their main opponents knowing what specs and gear people are running with |
| 09:51.54 | Shikatanai | i actually want them to link alts and stuff |
| 09:51.58 | Corrodias | doesn't in IE6 |
| 09:52.09 | nevcairiel | i dont think they will ever link Alts |
| 09:52.12 | bleetah | kinda makes a bit of a farce of the whole RP-PvP thing to some degree |
| 09:52.13 | Shadowed | bleetah it gives me more information to make fun of peoples spec |
| 09:52.14 | Corrodias | i doubt that as well |
| 09:52.14 | Shikatanai | hehe |
| 09:52.31 | Shadowed | Kind of was sad to see the specs of the #3 5vs5 team on Nightfall, they were horrible :/ |
| 09:52.48 | Shikatanai | are you on night fall? |
| 09:52.50 | Shadowed | Yep |
| 09:52.53 | Shikatanai | which server |
| 09:53.03 | Shadowed | Icecrown, Shadowd NE Warrior |
| 09:53.06 | Shadowed | you? |
| 09:53.08 | Corrodias | our 3v3 is in the gutter, at 1300 after the first week |
| 09:53.28 | Corrodias | "An error has occurred." -- well, that's beta for you |
| 09:53.29 | Shikatanai | Demon Soul 70 Feral NE Druid, Onyxia 70 BE Frost Mage |
| 09:53.31 | Shadowed | ahhh |
| 09:53.52 | Shikatanai | which makes it fun since i can PvP horde or alliance in BG on Nightfall ;) |
| 09:54.14 | Shadowed | I haven't been doing BG's much anymore, mostly focusing on arenas |
| 09:54.27 | Shikatanai | i usually just use BGs as a way to communicate with opposite faction |
| 09:54.30 | Shikatanai | i play my horde more now |
| 09:54.34 | Shikatanai | so if some allys piss me off |
| 09:55.01 | Shikatanai | i login to my druid, queue up bg and find Someguy-Onyxia and tell them to send a whisper to so and so |
| 09:55.31 | Shikatanai | and vice versa |
| 09:55.50 | Shadowed | Most of the alliance I don't want to talk to again |
| 09:56.01 | Shikatanai | i feel the same way |
| 09:56.06 | Shikatanai | both DS and Ony are PvP servers |
| 09:56.13 | Shikatanai | and well |
| 09:56.27 | Shikatanai | after seeing how the alliance behaves compared to the horde when dealing with them as the opposite faction |
| 09:56.36 | Shikatanai | its quite frankly disgusting |
| 09:56.46 | Shikatanai | which is why i haven't played my druid much since hitting 70 and switching to the mage |
| 09:58.21 | Corrodias | i am a carebear, and allies can be helpful or assholes, but i don't expect my factionmates are behaving much nicer |
| 09:59.12 | Shikatanai | On Demon Soul as Alliance, Horde acts nothing like Alliance does as Horde on Onyxia |
| 09:59.12 | Corrodias | checking my character information just gives me an error. :( |
| 09:59.18 | Shadowed | Well, considering I spend most of a BG arguing tatics with Alliance it's not like they behave better |
| 09:59.35 | Shikatanai | That's a big difference with Horde and Alliance |
| 09:59.42 | Shikatanai | When I join a Horde BG |
| 10:00.18 | Shikatanai | No one really ever discusses tactics, everyone just goes and does stuff and we win |
| 10:00.21 | Corrodias | i feel like an idiot. i didn't give them any browser information... |
| 10:00.22 | Shikatanai | except AV |
| 10:01.31 | Shikatanai | AV we just... afk in the tunnel |
| 10:01.32 | Shikatanai | theres a huge /say party in the tunnel in AV 90% of the time horde side |
| 10:01.32 | Shikatanai | you should come see it sometime |
| 10:01.32 | Corrodias | i can see -your- character information, but not my own |
| 10:09.04 | Corrodias | we're around 1200th |
| 10:10.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [dRaCo] (i=drc@p5485AAD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:12.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ZealotOnAStick (n=zoas@c-69-246-194-124.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 10:13.49 | ckknight | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79225533&postId=801308181 |
| 10:18.55 | Shadowed | ckknight: Both Cair and AL have linked it :p |
| 10:19.05 | ckknight | well I don't pay attention |
| 10:19.07 | ckknight | so there. |
| 10:19.11 | Shadowed | haha |
| 10:19.12 | Shadowed | fair enough |
| 10:20.17 | Corrodias | i suppose linking it now would just be tacky |
| 10:25.33 | Shikatanai | i have a stupid question |
| 10:25.51 | Shikatanai | i have never raided strat, but i really want a piccolo |
| 10:25.57 | Corrodias | i can probably think of a stupid answer |
| 10:26.01 | Shikatanai | so how do you get to hearthsinger forresten |
| 10:26.14 | nevcairiel | you walk. |
| 10:26.19 | Corrodias | you sneak. |
| 10:26.20 | Shikatanai | :( |
| 10:26.23 | Shikatanai | i'm a mage |
| 10:26.28 | nevcairiel | you go invis. |
| 10:26.30 | Corrodias | you get help. |
| 10:26.34 | Shikatanai | it only lasts 20 seconds |
| 10:26.52 | zenzelezz | he spawns in a random place |
| 10:26.53 | nevcairiel | being a druid, i can sneak to him, and kill him, without getting any adds. |
| 10:26.56 | Shikatanai | the only time i ever went into strat i couldn't get back out |
| 10:27.26 | Corrodias | the main doorway is one-way |
| 10:27.36 | Shikatanai | which door do you have to go in to get to him? |
| 10:27.40 | Corrodias | the service entrance lets you back out, though |
| 10:27.42 | nevcairiel | main or side |
| 10:27.43 | Corrodias | either one |
| 10:27.44 | nevcairiel | doesnt matter really |
| 10:27.45 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 10:27.48 | Shikatanai | ok |
| 10:27.53 | Shikatanai | if i go into the main entrance |
| 10:27.59 | Shikatanai | where is this nab |
| 10:28.18 | Shikatanai | i can clear all of the skeletons and cadavers and everything when you first walk in with no problem at all |
| 10:28.40 | Corrodias | oh yeah? you can probably work your way to him, thewn |
| 10:28.45 | Corrodias | get Atlas |
| 10:28.53 | Corrodias | it will show you the guy's possible locations |
| 10:29.17 | Shikatanai | i don't use atlas in game due to system resources issues but i pull up atlas maps on a seperate terminal usually |
| 10:29.58 | Shikatanai | the thing is, at some point in the killing of all of the skeletons and cadavers they aggro like 10 at a time instead of 5 at a time |
| 10:30.01 | Shikatanai | and i can take 5 but not 10 |
| 10:30.17 | Corrodias | you need someone to help |
| 10:30.18 | Shikatanai | but its past the first set of buildings down into the square where that fountain statue thing is |
| 10:30.31 | Corrodias | hire a big strong other mage |
| 10:30.36 | Shikatanai | lol |
| 10:30.53 | Shikatanai | or OR i could go in and kill all the smaller groups |
| 10:31.00 | Shikatanai | then take out 2 or 3 of the 10 main group |
| 10:31.03 | Shikatanai | die, kill more |
| 10:31.12 | Shikatanai | whittle them down to a more manageable size... |
| 10:31.40 | Corrodias | yeah |
| 10:31.48 | Shikatanai | how far in is this nab usually? |
| 10:31.57 | Corrodias | nude mage nuking! only on pay-per-view |
| 10:32.03 | Corrodias | dunno |
| 10:32.16 | Corrodias | he was at the first spawn point, for me, going in the front entrancew |
| 10:32.26 | Corrodias | what i don't like is when the eye of naxx is invisible |
| 10:32.30 | Shikatanai | which is where? |
| 10:32.32 | Shikatanai | what is that |
| 10:32.34 | Corrodias | and calls mobs immediately and pwns me |
| 10:32.56 | Corrodias | just a mob that, if it sees you, alerts those nearby and summons more |
| 10:33.08 | Shikatanai | how much HP does it have |
| 10:33.18 | Corrodias | very little, i think |
| 10:33.33 | Shikatanai | 2k frostbolt should fix that then |
| 10:35.31 | Corrodias | hah! http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07192006 |
| 10:46.33 | Shikatanai | do i need some key to get in? |
| 10:46.38 | Shikatanai | from service entrance |
| 10:47.02 | Corrodias | yes |
| 10:47.11 | Corrodias | and the boss is something i cannot solo as a druid :( |
| 10:47.18 | Corrodias | to get the key |
| 10:47.26 | Corrodias | other druids can, but i just suck |
| 10:47.36 | Shikatanai | i know there is 2 gates for the service entrance |
| 10:47.44 | Shikatanai | one outside before you go through the swirl |
| 10:47.46 | Shikatanai | one inside |
| 10:47.52 | Shikatanai | do you have to have hte key for both or just the one outside? |
| 10:49.14 | Corrodias | you need it for the one inside |
| 10:49.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 10:49.21 | Corrodias | i don't know about the outside |
| 10:49.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 10:49.33 | Corrodias | the boss with the key is right inside the service entrance, but if you open the gate, he'll start running away |
| 10:49.42 | zenzelezz | you need it for both |
| 10:49.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 10:49.59 | zenzelezz | but the inside door stays unlocked until you reset the instance once you have unlocked it |
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| 11:01.37 | Corrodias | well, i guess i'll sleep now. 'ni |
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| 12:47.59 | wobin | hrm |
| 12:48.12 | wobin | Is there any way I can bind, say, TAB to call a function? |
| 12:53.01 | amro | bind it to a macro? |
| 12:59.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 13:01.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hugo546 (i=hugo@hugo.scnet.cz) |
| 13:01.18 | wobin | nah, I bound it to a button |
| 13:01.30 | wobin | a self generated one |
| 13:01.40 | wobin | which calls a onclick |
| 13:04.52 | JoshBorke | morning Wobin! |
| 13:05.42 | wobin | evening JB, how goes it? |
| 13:05.55 | haste | don't say JB |
| 13:06.02 | haste | it just makes me think of jailbait :p |
| 13:06.29 | wobin | O.O |
| 13:06.46 | wobin | Does that run through your vocabulary often? |
| 13:07.02 | JoshBorke | lol. it goes REALLY well. i went to bed at 11 and got up at 7 |
| 13:07.05 | wobin | And who knows, perhaps JB is Jailbait |
| 13:07.06 | JoshBorke | it was AMAZING |
| 13:07.17 | haste | I have a tendency to surf 4chan's /b/ |
| 13:07.23 | wobin | 8 hours is good? |
| 13:07.28 | wobin | Or is it 20? |
| 13:07.33 | JoshBorke | 8 hours |
| 13:07.36 | wobin | ^^ |
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| 13:08.11 | wobin | Speaking of which, it's 12am |
| 13:08.16 | wobin | I'd better trundle off to bed |
| 13:08.22 | JoshBorke | night wobin |
| 13:08.29 | wobin | night =) |
| 13:08.46 | krka | could be 8 + 12*n for any integer n, n >= 0 |
| 13:09.57 | JoshBorke | indeed it could krka :-P |
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| 13:15.35 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 13:39.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bouvi (n=Bouvi@72.243.111.178) |
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| 13:51.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Sirbreaker (i=Sirbreak@lns-bzn-60-82-254-223-141.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 13:51.26 | Sirbreaker | Hi all |
| 13:51.34 | amro | hi |
| 13:51.36 | Sirbreaker | I have a UI problem |
| 13:52.15 | Sirbreaker | How can I tell to the addon if I'm in a @vs@ or #v# or %v% arena team? |
| 13:52.35 | Sirbreaker | 2vs 3vs 5vs |
| 13:54.31 | Sirbreaker | someone can help me? |
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| 13:55.32 | JoshBorke | i have no clue, sorry |
| 13:56.05 | krka | is arena like a battleground? |
| 13:57.55 | krka | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetNumBattlefieldScores |
| 13:57.55 | krka | would that work? |
| 14:00.45 | JoshBorke | i wouldn't listen to krka, he likes to make math jokes, he's kinda out theer |
| 14:02.57 | Sirbreaker | But you cant acces the battlefield score table during the battle |
| 14:03.20 | krka | when can you access it? |
| 14:04.12 | amro | only once the fight is over. how about checking for which arenas you're in queue? |
| 14:04.32 | amro | perhaps there's an event when entering an arena that specifies the type |
| 14:05.23 | Sirbreaker | good idea ill try |
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| 14:06.42 | Shirik|zZz | UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_STATUS is probably your best bet |
| 14:06.51 | Shirik|zZz | just remember what it refers to |
| 14:07.38 | Shirik | PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD should also be fired, as battlegrounds are instances |
| 14:08.14 | Sirbreaker | yes but there arent arguments like "Arena Team Type" |
| 14:08.57 | Sirbreaker | maybe if I call GetNumBattlefieldScores(); just after UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_SCORE |
| 14:09.02 | Sirbreaker | ill try |
| 14:09.42 | Sirbreaker | I have an idea |
| 14:10.11 | Sirbreaker | Is there a way to know the teams names of the arena teams we are in? |
| 14:10.14 | Shirik | you still have to know when to use RequestBattlefieldScoreData() |
| 14:10.21 | Shirik | yes |
| 14:10.46 | Sirbreaker | How? |
| 14:12.19 | Shirik | but |
| 14:12.26 | Shirik | only after the arena is complete |
| 14:12.28 | Shirik | the match* |
| 14:13.42 | Shirik | aha! |
| 14:13.51 | Shirik | use a mix of |
| 14:14.14 | Shirik | well actually better yet, if you just want to know if it's a 5v5, etc. |
| 14:14.15 | Shirik | use http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetBattlefieldStatus |
| 14:14.32 | Shirik | find which one is type "active" |
| 14:14.57 | Sirbreaker | okay thanks yuo very much! |
| 14:15.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh_ (n=chatzill@146.145.196.188) |
| 14:16.08 | Sirbreaker | Wath is the Index tu put? |
| 14:16.14 | Sirbreaker | 3vs?3 |
| 14:16.15 | Shirik | you can just loop 1 through 3 |
| 14:16.18 | Sirbreaker | ok |
| 14:16.21 | Shirik | it could be any of those |
| 14:16.39 | Sirbreaker | ok |
| 14:16.53 | Shirik | actually |
| 14:17.00 | Shirik | loop 1 through MAX_BATTLEFIELD_QUEUES |
| 14:17.02 | Shirik | for scalability |
| 14:17.15 | Shirik | currently MAX_BATTLEFIELD_QUEUES == 3, but hey they may change it later |
| 14:17.35 | Shirik | least I think it's 3 |
| 14:17.38 | Shirik | w/e ... just do that :P |
| 14:20.52 | Sirbreaker | lol |
| 14:20.55 | Sirbreaker | okay |
| 14:21.39 | Sirbreaker | YOUPI! |
| 14:21.40 | Sirbreaker | teamSize |
| 14:21.40 | Sirbreaker | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:21.44 | Sirbreaker | ^^ |
| 14:24.09 | Sirbreaker | is "active - You're inside an active battlefield" =1 when the arena scorboard is displayed? |
| 14:39.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.166.125) |
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| 14:49.07 | Shirik | purl, poke dolby-wowi |
| 14:49.10 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind dolby-wowi, pokes dolby-wowi repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
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| 16:12.46 | Bouvi | Carienn you said no autographed posters. How about 8x10 glossy? |
| 16:13.30 | Bouvi | 5x7 |
| 16:14.02 | Cairenn|afk | N |
| 16:14.03 | Cairenn|afk | O |
| 16:14.22 | Bouvi | Thumbnail |
| 16:14.29 | Bouvi | AIM Icon |
| 16:14.31 | Cairenn|afk | nyet |
| 16:14.34 | Bouvi | Pixel |
| 16:14.43 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Cairenn|afk |
| 16:14.44 | purl | ACTION hugs Cairenn|afk tightly until Cairenn|afk turns slightly blue |
| 16:14.53 | Cairenn|afk | purl, hug JoshBorke |
| 16:14.54 | purl | ACTION jumps into JoshBorke's lap and huggles and *hugs* JoshBorke |
| 16:15.02 | JoshBorke | how you doing Cairenn? |
| 16:15.16 | Cairenn | okay, sore |
| 16:15.22 | Bouvi | How about just the full pic of your avatar :) |
| 16:15.29 | Cairenn | lol |
| 16:16.01 | Cairenn | http://www.cairenn-mmorpg.com/images/avatars/Generic/Reisha_The_Elf_by_RafM.jpg |
| 16:16.23 | Bouvi | Ahhh heck where is the rest of her lol |
| 16:16.28 | Bouvi | Dang she is hot |
| 16:16.32 | Cairenn | ask RafM |
| 16:16.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel|work (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com) |
| 16:17.11 | Bouvi | On a serious note I like the idea of a premium membership |
| 16:17.14 | Cairenn | I really hope he does more work with her though, I'd love to have another image to use in a sig file |
| 16:18.12 | Cairenn | we've been talking about it for a while now, just a matter of a) getting the coding in place and b) finding out what folks would like - we've got ideas of our own, but wanted feedback from the community as well |
| 16:18.18 | JoshBorke | Cairenn: i like some of the ideas posted about premium membership so far. especially the ones about compilations |
| 16:18.39 | Bouvi | Yes the Compliation one rocks hard. |
| 16:19.11 | JoshBorke | but like one poster already said, wowi provides services that no other website does |
| 16:19.23 | Bouvi | I also like the idea of being able to click on multiple addons and download as one file. |
| 16:19.40 | Bouvi | And I agree with JoshBorke which is why I love WoWi |
| 16:20.32 | Cairenn | and here I thought I was the reason you guys loved WoWI |
| 16:20.37 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 16:20.56 | zenzelezz | I thought this channel was all about flirting with Cairenn |
| 16:21.09 | zenzelezz | just interrupted by coders :-( |
| 16:21.11 | Cairenn | lol |
| 16:22.13 | Bouvi | Well you are the reason for sure but due to the highly sensitive state of the national any overtures of a sexual/drooling nature has dire consequences which is why we must be decrete in our worship of you but supporting WoWi |
| 16:22.56 | Bouvi | And I cannot spell today. |
| 16:23.00 | Cairenn | *chuckle* |
| 16:23.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nuoHep (n=nuoHep@h54.ciscom.ru) |
| 16:24.19 | Cairenn | okay, kinda here but not really paying attention for the next while - *calls the insurance company to get the medical claim rolling* |
| 16:24.49 | JoshBorke | good luck |
| 16:25.08 | Bouvi | Yep good luck. |
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| 16:38.54 | cogwheel|work | omg armory |
| 16:39.29 | Elkano | omg stasi |
| 16:39.54 | nevcairiel | omg love! |
| 16:41.32 | Shirik | *confused* |
| 16:41.38 | Shirik | *goes back to hw* |
| 16:41.50 | cogwheel|work | Shirik: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com |
| 16:41.58 | Shirik | ah yeah I saw that |
| 16:42.01 | Shirik | it makes me look like crap |
| 16:42.04 | cogwheel|work | just saw it for the first time today :P |
| 16:42.16 | Cide | it makes ctprofiles look like.. well.. the same thing! |
| 16:42.39 | Shirik | question for any math gurus: how the heck can I prove that the sum of two rational numbers is a rational number |
| 16:43.09 | Shirik | I mean... it's .... obvious |
| 16:43.09 | cogwheel|work | umm... |
| 16:43.35 | Shirik | I think I just figured it out nm :P |
| 16:43.45 | Cide | a/b + c/d = (a*c)/(b*d) ? |
| 16:43.55 | Shirik | yeha |
| 16:43.55 | cogwheel|work | that's about what I was thinking |
| 16:43.59 | Shirik | that's what I just figured out :P |
| 16:44.20 | Shirik | um |
| 16:44.42 | Shirik | but wouldn't it be something more like... (a/bd)+(c/bd) = (a+c)/(bd) |
| 16:44.42 | Shirik | ? |
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| 16:45.01 | Shirik | no I'm confusing myself |
| 16:45.03 | Shirik | I need more sleep |
| 16:45.10 | Shirik | this is what I get for procrastinating |
| 16:46.15 | Cide | I'm confusing myself too |
| 16:48.08 | Shirik | you were right actually |
| 16:48.25 | cogwheel|work | wait, isn't it a/b + c/d = (ad + bc)/bd ? or am I just getting confused too? (been way too long since I did math) |
| 16:48.28 | Shirik | er sorry |
| 16:48.28 | Shirik | it's |
| 16:48.33 | Shirik | if we have a/b + c/d |
| 16:48.43 | Cide | yeah |
| 16:48.52 | Shirik | it's eqiuvalent to 1+ca/bd |
| 16:48.54 | Shirik | er |
| 16:49.01 | Shirik | no |
| 16:49.04 | Shirik | bc/ad |
| 16:49.06 | Shirik | 1+bc/ad |
| 16:49.53 | Cide | a/b + b/c = (ad+bc)/bd |
| 16:50.03 | Cide | (ad+bc)/(bd), I should say |
| 16:50.49 | Cide | or am I tired too |
| 16:51.03 | Cide | no, it works |
| 16:51.12 | Cide | errrrr |
| 16:51.18 | Cide | a/b + c/d = (ad+bc)/(bd) |
| 16:51.33 | cogwheel|work | yeah... what I said :P |
| 16:51.38 | Cide | screw you |
| 16:51.53 | Cide | it only took me like 10 tries to type the right keys! |
| 16:52.52 | Cide | I don't think you have to prove that the product of two integers is an integer :) |
| 16:53.05 | cogwheel|work | of course, this assumes you've established that the sum & products of whole numbers is a whole number |
| 16:53.10 | cogwheel|work | err... what Cide said :P |
| 16:53.13 | Cide | haha |
| 16:53.39 | Shirik | http://www.mathbin.net/8608 |
| 16:54.29 | Shirik | but yes we've already proven that a+b and a*b are elements of I, where a and b are elements of I |
| 16:54.30 | amro | gah, I hate algebra. its annoying when you have to provide proof for something obvious, like a = b + c => b = a - c |
| 17:00.23 | Cairenn | yes, I know |
| 17:15.07 | |FF|Im2good4u | since poker isnt allowed i wonder will other card games be allowed if they are not based on money but just for fun ? |
| 17:17.18 | |FF|Im2good4u | they probely should aslong as ppl dont have to put in money :P |
| 17:21.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=ag`@0x503e793a.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 17:37.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amweiss (n=aweiss@bflo.corp.synacor.com) |
| 17:37.53 | *** part/#wowi-lounge amweiss (n=aweiss@bflo.corp.synacor.com) |
| 17:41.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 17:49.06 | wereHamster | lol.. someone wrote a function internetinit() O.o |
| 17:49.44 | haste | Oh shi-! Divison by zero! |
| 17:51.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@222.52-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:51.33 | Elkano | there once was that case where an US Navy ship broke down for 2h or so because someone entered a 0 into a field where he shouldn't which later caused a division by zero ^^ |
| 17:58.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@204.155.78.140) |
| 18:06.54 | Shirik | wow |
| 18:06.58 | Shirik | that's pretty impressive |
| 18:08.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge raevanmorlock (i=raevanmo@ip70-162-70-30.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:09.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bouvi (n=Bouvi@72.243.111.178) |
| 18:16.53 | haste | http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLxMN5YMS3A < should be like that |
| 18:23.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:25.20 | Shirik | rofl |
| 18:29.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge bindi (n=indigo@d54C68DEA.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:31.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Funkeh` (n=funkydud@host81-158-173-180.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:33.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 18:35.14 | amro | floppy disks are evil. |
| 18:35.31 | zenzelezz | don't copy that floppy |
| 18:35.34 | amro | I tried to acces my floppy drive earlier and got a BSOD |
| 18:35.40 | Shirik | that's impressive |
| 18:35.49 | Shirik | what was the error? |
| 18:36.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 18:36.28 | amro | Something about an access violation I think. I don't read Windows's error messages unless the problem repeats itself, they don't usually contain any useful information |
| 18:36.34 | raevanmorlock | I think the error was trying to use a floppy... they're like so 20 years ago |
| 18:36.47 | zenzelezz | the most interesting computer problem I've had was shortly after we got our first computer, when we "upgraded" it so it had both SD and EDO RAM... Windows didn't like that |
| 18:36.53 | Shirik | an access violation (segmentation fault, whatever you want to call it) wouldn't cause a blue screen :P |
| 18:37.05 | Shirik | and they almost always contain useful information if you know what to do with it |
| 18:37.20 | amro | unless driver code screws up. happened with my video card drivers and cd rom drivers |
| 18:37.25 | Shirik | it may not resolve your problem, but it'll tell you where the problem is |
| 18:38.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | what's the macro code for aggressive mobs? [harm]? |
| 18:38.36 | Shirik | [harm] technically means you can attack it |
| 18:38.41 | Shirik | [nohelp] means it's not friendly |
| 18:38.41 | Iriel | There is no 'aggressive mobs' conditional |
| 18:38.46 | Shirik | well |
| 18:38.48 | Shirik | it means you can't help it |
| 18:39.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | [harm] is what i need then |
| 18:39.14 | Shirik | note that [harm] will, however, be true for many neutral mobs |
| 18:39.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@222.52-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:39.38 | raevanmorlock | many? not all? |
| 18:39.46 | Shirik | there are neutral mobs you can't attack |
| 18:39.46 | Iriel | and other players |
| 18:39.51 | amro | Shirik: Giving me a hex error code and a hex address isn't very useful unless the problem is persistant, hence why I don't read them |
| 18:39.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _aLF (n=Alexandr@aix73-2-88-160-210-8.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:39.55 | Iriel | if they're pvp flagged against you |
| 18:40.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | neutral as in mouseover gives a sword, right? |
| 18:40.03 | raevanmorlock | aah |
| 18:40.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | as long as mouseover gives a sword, it's [harm] right? |
| 18:40.14 | amro | Shirik: and if it's not a BSOD, windows says something like "Something bad happened to your computer." omitting technical details |
| 18:40.25 | Iriel | Mr_Rabies2: That's how it should be, yes |
| 18:40.28 | Shirik | lol |
| 18:40.33 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@222.52-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:40.33 | Iriel | Mr_Rabies: If you could cast fireball at it, then it's [harm] |
| 18:40.36 | Shirik | "Something bad happened to your computer... technical details follow" |
| 18:40.40 | Shirik | "You installed Windows" |
| 18:40.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | okay, thats all i need, thanks guys |
| 18:41.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | doing a petattack/calloff/petassist macro |
| 18:41.20 | Shirik | right, off to class then |
| 18:42.27 | raevanmorlock | Xenosaga III, Shadow Hearts Covenant, or Tales of the Abyss? |
| 18:43.27 | amro | FF12 |
| 18:44.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | hrm, [target=player] doesn't mean if my target is set to myself, is there a conditional for that? |
| 18:44.55 | raevanmorlock | I own FF12.. I'm renting those three and can't decide which, if any, are worth playing through. |
| 18:45.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | basically making a macro so that if the target is attackable, i send my pet in, if it's friendly and not me, assisting, then sending my pet in, and if it's me, calling my pet back to me |
| 18:45.38 | Iriel | Mr_Rabies2: No, we specifically dont have 'unit is unit' testing |
| 18:45.42 | amro | turns out the FF12 I got was in Japanese, I'm still looking for a US version |
| 18:46.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | darn |
| 18:46.12 | Mr_Rabies2 | i have the first two parts working fine |
| 18:46.13 | Iriel | Maybe if you have no target, come back toyou? |
| 18:46.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh that's a good idea |
| 18:46.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | thanks |
| 18:47.21 | Iriel | Anyone know what happens if you dont have a TBC account and you try boarding the boat to Azuremyst? |
| 18:47.22 | raevanmorlock | Where'd you get it from, amro? I got mine the day it was released at a Gamestop |
| 18:48.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | kicks you to the gy Iriel |
| 18:48.13 | raevanmorlock | Iriel: A midget knocks on your door and kicks you in the shin |
| 18:48.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | rofl |
| 18:48.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | it kicks you to the GY in darkshore |
| 18:48.33 | amro | hm well I don't think there are gamestops on this continent |
| 18:51.23 | raevanmorlock | Well.. there should be |
| 18:51.29 | raevanmorlock | They're quite helpful. |
| 18:51.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | wait, there's no [notarget] conditional, either |
| 18:51.52 | Iriel | use exists |
| 18:52.06 | Iriel | or, specifically, noexists |
| 18:55.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.166.125) |
| 18:55.42 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Shirik (n=nospam@155.31.166.125) |
| 18:55.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik (n=nospam@155.31.166.125) |
| 19:03.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | appreciate it iriel, ever since the macro thing got changed on wowwiki i've been a bit more confused :p |
| 19:03.25 | Iriel | Have you checked Neuro's macro guide on the ui forum? |
| 19:04.01 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=77588042&sid=1 |
| 19:04.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | ooh nice |
| 19:30.47 | Bouvi | I vote for the more bacon option!!! |
| 19:31.12 | raevanmorlock | Bacon is bleh |
| 19:31.34 | Cairenn | mmmmmm, bacon |
| 19:32.48 | Bouvi | I have it!!! And autographed picture of BACON!!! |
| 19:32.49 | cogwheel|work | http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=000BB3C8-B910-15DC-9E5E83027AF10110 |
| 19:33.19 | raevanmorlock | ... the bacon signed its name? |
| 19:34.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | maybe kevin bacon signed it |
| 19:34.36 | raevanmorlock | oooh right.. Kevin Bacon |
| 19:34.36 | Elessdy | <|FF|Im2good4u> since poker isnt allowed i wonder will other card games be allowed if they are not based on money but just for fun ? -- eh? |
| 19:34.45 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm going to get kevin bacon to sign a piece of bacon |
| 19:35.07 | Bouvi | No no no. Everyone wants pics of Cairenn. She should put the bacon on her somewhere sign it and send it.... O.o |
| 19:35.23 | Cairenn | n |
| 19:35.24 | Cairenn | o |
| 19:35.30 | Bouvi | p |
| 19:35.30 | Bouvi | l |
| 19:35.31 | Bouvi | e |
| 19:35.32 | Bouvi | a |
| 19:35.32 | Bouvi | s |
| 19:35.33 | Bouvi | e |
| 19:35.37 | Cairenn | nyet |
| 19:35.39 | Shirik | ow spam |
| 19:35.50 | Shirik | cmon you're distracting me from class with all this flashing |
| 19:35.51 | Bouvi | Back to the drawing board.... |
| 19:36.55 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Wing87 (n=Wing@c83-254-244-84.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 19:37.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatic1 (n=cncfanat@227.80-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:38.32 | Bouvi | How about Cairenn e-mails a picture of bacon |
| 19:39.30 | Shirik | poor Cairenn |
| 19:44.37 | Cairenn | Cair is used to it |
| 19:45.05 | Cairenn | lol |
| 19:45.07 | Cairenn | *hug* |
| 19:45.27 | Bouvi | Can I stay in your lap or do I have to get down now? |
| 19:45.38 | Cairenn | you have to get down, you're squishing me |
| 19:45.52 | Bouvi | I need to go to weight watchers. |
| 19:46.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _Grem_ (n=Grem@72.243.15.114) |
| 19:46.56 | Cairenn | sorry dear, but I'm even littler than your wife (from looking at her picture) - oof, get off |
| 19:47.06 | _Grem_ | Does anyone know how to check the number of available bag slots in a bag? |
| 19:47.55 | Iriel | 1) See how large the bag is 2) Look at each slot, subtract those that are not empty.. Or 1) Start at 0 2) Look at each slot in the bag, add one for each that is empty. |
| 19:48.03 | _Grem_ | Yikes |
| 19:48.34 | _Grem_ | I was hoping for something a big easier =) |
| 19:48.56 | _Grem_ | (Not that it's difficult) |
| 19:49.09 | _Grem_ | Do I just check to see if the itemlink is nil? |
| 19:55.00 | Iriel | Something like that, yes. |
| 19:55.38 | _Grem_ | Alright, thanks =) |
| 19:55.58 | Iriel | Just look at blizzard's Container frame code |
| 19:56.49 | Elessdy | if there's one thing i wish TBag would do, it would be to let me lock the frames so i don't accidentally move them |
| 19:57.33 | Elessdy | if there is another thing, it's to let me purge characters that no longer exist. old names, ouch. |
| 19:58.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 20:00.50 | Cairenn | purl, hug JoshBorke |
| 20:00.55 | purl | ACTION jumps into JoshBorke's lap and huggles and *hugs* JoshBorke |
| 20:06.41 | Bouvi | I wonder how many kids are using Cairenn's avatar for unmentionable acts. |
| 20:07.52 | raevanmorlock | I know of at least one |
| 20:08.04 | amro | I don't. I don't want to know. |
| 20:08.22 | raevanmorlock | lol |
| 20:09.11 | Bouvi | I don't want to know either. |
| 20:10.24 | Bouvi | And if you are thinking of me being one of the kids. 1. I am prob older than all of you and 2. I am married and 3. I am just bored as hell at work :) |
| 20:11.19 | sysrage | married and 3? damn kids get married young over there :P |
| 20:11.33 | sysrage | ./duck |
| 20:11.47 | Bouvi | Hah. 3 is in my age thou. |
| 20:11.57 | Bouvi | Too bad it ain't the only number |
| 20:12.41 | Cairenn | Bouvi: don't count on part of that statement being true |
| 20:13.02 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Cairenn |
| 20:13.05 | purl | ACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs Cairenn |
| 20:13.10 | JoshBorke | my fiancee didn't get into grad school :-./ |
| 20:13.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide- (n=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:13.35 | Bouvi | What that I am older than all of you? Anyone older than 38 right now? |
| 20:13.47 | Cairenn | there are people in channel that are, yes |
| 20:13.54 | Cairenn | JoshBorke: :( |
| 20:13.54 | Bouvi | No right now. This second |
| 20:14.25 | Cairenn | as I said ... |
| 20:14.27 | Cairenn | there are people in channel that are, yes |
| 20:14.37 | Bouvi | See then my statement is true hehe. I know there are older but no on here live atm. :) |
| 20:14.56 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.18 | Bouvi | I can say I am the oldest moderator on the Discord Forums :) |
| 20:15.31 | JoshBorke | i can say i'm the best looking :-P |
| 20:16.06 | Iriel | Bouvi: I'm fairly sure there are folks on the channel, live, now, that are older than you. Not many, tho, AFAIK |
| 20:16.08 | Bouvi | <- sexiest |
| 20:16.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@22.78-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:16.43 | JoshBorke | ^-- hottest |
| 20:16.56 | Bouvi | Yes but they are not speaking out so they are AFK therefore not here therefore in reality not really on here atm just a spirit of themselves which in truth is not them. |
| 20:17.14 | Cairenn | you really are bored silly, aren't you? |
| 20:17.19 | Bouvi | VERY |
| 20:19.30 | amro | read up on electromagnetism |
| 20:19.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amweiss (n=aweiss@bflo.corp.synacor.com) |
| 20:19.46 | *** part/#wowi-lounge amweiss (n=aweiss@bflo.corp.synacor.com) |
| 20:20.05 | Bouvi | I just got this message.... You have reached the end of the internet. Log off and go outside. BUT IT IS RAINING! |
| 20:20.20 | Iriel | Take an umbrella |
| 20:20.43 | JoshBorke | and rain boots |
| 20:20.45 | JoshBorke | i hate wet feet |
| 20:20.52 | Bouvi | I need to log into WoW and get my character into place for an instance run. Wait till the boss leaves and I am on for a few mins. |
| 20:21.52 | amro | if you're at work, try http://xkcd.org/c228.html |
| 20:23.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@198.199.136.146) |
| 20:30.02 | JoshBorke | purl, dance with Cairenn |
| 20:30.03 | purl | with Cairenn, dance with me! Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' Elive, stayin' Elive |
| 20:30.20 | JoshBorke | hm |
| 20:30.28 | JoshBorke | Cairenn: how'd the insurance people go? |
| 20:30.39 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:31.08 | Cairenn | yeah, they'll pay for my physio ... after I pay for 6 months out of my own pocket first |
| 20:31.15 | Cairenn | here's hoping it can heal on its own |
| 20:31.39 | JoshBorke | :-( that's gay |
| 20:31.43 | Cairenn | very |
| 20:32.10 | Cairenn | well, other than the fact I hate that expression |
| 20:32.34 | Bouvi | I am glad I have a good medical insurance. I started to have to go to the docs for diabetes and I started getting checks back where they returned my $20 copay. My insurance covers 100% of my diabetic testing supplies, doc visits and meds. |
| 20:32.38 | JoshBorke | s/gay/a really cruddy thing for them to do/ |
| 20:32.56 | JoshBorke | :-) |
| 20:34.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@rrcs-67-78-171-230.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:42.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=ag`@0x503e793a.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 20:47.24 | Bouvi | *crickets chirp* |
| 20:47.41 | raevanmorlock | shhh |
| 20:53.26 | Bouvi | *crickets play mozart* |
| 20:55.41 | Bouvi | *crickets knock out a rendention of Enter Sandman* |
| 20:57.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | pfft |
| 20:57.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | tell them to get back to me when they can play ride the lightning |
| 20:57.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hatado (n=kco41@74-136-6-34.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 20:57.43 | Bouvi | *pissed off crickets drum out Ride the Lightning and Metal Melitia |
| 20:58.27 | hatado | hrm... how do I make it so that when I have two tabs in my frame for tabbed windows... I make it so that when I click the other tab and it loads the page and the first tab is behind the frame? |
| 20:58.43 | hatado | I got the loading the second frame part down though |
| 21:00.14 | hatado | what I want is ... how do I make it look like the previous tab isn't selected |
| 21:05.57 | hatado | anyone here? |
| 21:06.08 | Cairenn | no |
| 21:06.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | nobody here but us chickens |
| 21:06.26 | hatado | lol so noone can help me? |
| 21:06.59 | Bouvi | I would but that is beyond my limited lua knowledge |
| 21:07.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | same for me :[ |
| 21:07.12 | hatado | hmm |
| 21:07.14 | Iriel | Can't you just look at some existing code that does this, and see what techniques it uses |
| 21:07.22 | hatado | I am trying still |
| 21:07.34 | Iriel | You're not asking a technical question as much as a UI design question |
| 21:08.02 | hatado | .. |
| 21:09.32 | Cide | www.ctmod.net -> CT_ExpenseHistory, has a good example of tabbed windows |
| 21:09.45 | Cide | relatively good anyway, it's a bit old |
| 21:09.46 | hatado | aight ty |
| 21:09.50 | hatado | ah |
| 21:10.18 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@22.78-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:10.34 | raevanmorlock | Anyone else been checking out the Age of Conan stuff? |
| 21:14.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nymbia (n=nymbia@71-218-138-197.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 21:17.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge IleBur (i=ilebur@shell.node.fi) |
| 21:22.51 | MentalPower | Woot! classes cancelled! |
| 21:23.21 | raevanmorlock | congrats |
| 21:33.20 | Kolth | I wonder if my 4 o'clock will be cancelled. |
| 21:34.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@74.92.248.14) |
| 21:38.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wobin (n=wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 21:49.48 | Shirik | classes cancelled? |
| 21:49.49 | Shirik | for what?! |
| 21:49.54 | Kolth | School? |
| 21:49.56 | Kolth | Snow |
| 21:54.42 | amro | when I was in high school all cancelled classes were made up for at the end of the year, either in increased hours a day or extra weeks |
| 21:54.56 | Shirik | pathetic |
| 21:54.57 | Kolth | Yep |
| 21:54.59 | Shirik | go to school |
| 21:55.00 | Shikatanai | we had to go to saturday school |
| 21:55.06 | Shirik | it's just snow |
| 21:55.16 | Shikatanai | we could miss 2 days a year if we missed more than that we had to make up all of them |
| 21:55.21 | Kolth | My classes get cancelled when the professors can't show up. |
| 21:55.24 | Shikatanai | so if we missed 2 we were fine if we missed 3 we made up 3 on saturdays |
| 21:55.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stavmar (n=chatzill@fwext1-ext.isgenesis.com) |
| 21:59.13 | MentalPower | University, snow |
| 22:10.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 22:15.08 | Iriel | I wish the armory wouldn't lock up my browser entirely while it was thinking |
| 22:15.28 | Shirik | I hate the armory |
| 22:15.36 | Shirik | it's cool and all, but it reminds me of how crappy my character is |
| 22:15.46 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:16.12 | Kaso | armory does seem rather bloated from a code perseptive |
| 22:16.26 | Kaso | Also the fact that it doesnt work for me :< |
| 22:17.11 | Shirik | ... |
| 22:17.21 | Shirik | do they issue tornado watches 24 hours in advance now? |
| 22:17.28 | Shirik | oh wait that's only 6 hours never mind |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kelvie (n=kelvie@66.183.88.203) |
| 22:19.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge mahiro (n=Miranda@242.37.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:19.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gngsk_ (n=gngsk@c-69-138-213-251.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:32.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Paratus (i=Paratus@bas13-ottawa23-1088841380.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:32.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=ag`@0x503e793a.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 22:32.51 | Paratus | Anyone know how I can get the quest ID #, not the index in my log, of a quest? |
| 22:33.25 | Iriel | You can't |
| 22:33.51 | Shirik | define "Quest ID#" |
| 22:36.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jocco_S (n=jocco@217-210-128-16-no18.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:36.15 | AnduinLothar | it's in the cache files only |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 22:36.19 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 22:36.21 | Paratus | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=3602 <-- for example, how this quest is listed as 3602 |
| 22:36.46 | Shirik | I may be wrong, but I believe they come up with those numbers on their own |
| 22:36.46 | Cide | that's not available to the UI |
| 22:36.52 | Cide | they don't |
| 22:37.09 | Paratus | No, they don't come up with it on their own. |
| 22:37.13 | Cide | it uses the internal ID.. which cannot be retrieved through the UI |
| 22:37.19 | Paratus | Allakhazam and Wowhead uses the same IDs. |
| 22:37.28 | Shirik | hm, well it doesn't change the answer |
| 22:37.29 | Paratus | How do they retreive it then, if not through thier UI? |
| 22:37.34 | Cide | data mining |
| 22:38.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh-work (n=chatzill@146.145.196.188) |
| 22:39.57 | bleetah | http://packetstorm.setnine.com/unix-humor/unixoid_hell.gif |
| 22:40.03 | haste | Paratus: by extracting the information from the WDB (Cache) files, as said before several times |
| 22:40.11 | Shirik | ROFL |
| 22:41.17 | Shirik | that's beautiful |
| 22:41.18 | Cide | nice :) |
| 22:42.06 | AnduinLothar | awesome |
| 22:42.10 | AnduinLothar | revenge of clippy |
| 23:01.23 | Shirik | since when is there a [player] conditional? |
| 23:02.12 | Shirik | nm the poster made a mistake :P |
| 23:06.29 | Kaso | bleetah that gif is awesome |
| 23:08.10 | subbot | bah my plan of not using any bar mod at all is failing |
| 23:08.13 | subbot | my pet bar isn't showing up :( |
| 23:08.23 | Shirik | taints ftw |
| 23:08.39 | Kaso | I thought they made it next to impossible to taint petbar |
| 23:08.47 | Shirik | that doesn't mean it's impossible |
| 23:09.00 | Cide | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:09.00 | pastamancer | I still have problems with my pet bar and my tot frame intermittently |
| 23:09.21 | Cide | should work... |
| 23:10.55 | Shirik | subbot: type /script if issecurevariable("PetBarFrame") then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Secure!"); else DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Insecure!"); end |
| 23:11.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Ammo] (n=wouter@connected.dnd.utwente.nl) |
| 23:11.29 | subbot | nothing happened -_- |
| 23:11.34 | Shirik | then you typed it wrong |
| 23:11.45 | subbot | i copied and pasted it wrong? |
| 23:11.47 | subbot | i somehow doubt it :p |
| 23:11.49 | Iriel | They made is hard to accidently taint petbar if you weren't doing stuff WITH the pet bar |
| 23:12.13 | Shirik | do you have a chat frame, subbot? |
| 23:12.15 | Iriel | subbot: It prints something either way, so SOMETHING happened unless you typed it wrong |
| 23:12.32 | WobWork | He may not have his DCF showing |
| 23:12.49 | subbot | i changed it to ChatFrame1 |
| 23:12.58 | subbot | i got Secure! |
| 23:13.03 | WobWork | yay! |
| 23:13.04 | Shirik | well that's good |
| 23:13.06 | Iriel | Did you hide any frames? |
| 23:13.08 | WobWork | boo? |
| 23:13.12 | Iriel | Such as, perhaps the parent of the pet bar? |
| 23:13.31 | subbot | i didn't think it was the parent |
| 23:13.35 | subbot | but i hid.. MainMenuBar? |
| 23:14.05 | Iriel | Try /script ChatFrame1:AddMessage(PetBarFrame:GetParent():GetName()) |
| 23:14.34 | Iriel | Then /script ChatFrame1:AddMessage((PetBarFrame:GetParent():IsVisible() and "yes") or "no") |
| 23:15.03 | Cide | it's a child of MainMenuBar, yes |
| 23:15.09 | subbot | i just did PetBarFrame:SetParent(UIParent) before you told me to type that |
| 23:15.12 | subbot | was that a bad idea? |
| 23:15.19 | Iriel | No, that should take care of it |
| 23:15.30 | Iriel | You may need to re-anchor it, I guess you'll find that out |
| 23:16.32 | Shirik | What do you guys think the best way to locate the WoW install folder is on a mac? |
| 23:16.35 | Shirik | just ask the user? |
| 23:17.47 | subbot | weird, it's still not showing up |
| 23:18.41 | Shirik | it may have no point |
| 23:19.07 | Shirik | i.e., it's just floating in the middle of nowhere |
| 23:19.15 | subbot | /dump PetBarFrame returned nil ~_~ |
| 23:19.25 | Shirik | what's /dump ? |
| 23:19.42 | Cide | a DevTools slash cmd |
| 23:19.42 | Iriel | It shouldn't return nil |
| 23:19.45 | Cide | awesomly awesome |
| 23:19.49 | Shirik | what's it do? |
| 23:19.52 | Cide | s/mly/mely/ |
| 23:19.56 | Shirik | I may have written my own version of it >< |
| 23:20.03 | Cide | it dumps a value or a list of values |
| 23:20.08 | Shirik | awesome |
| 23:20.10 | Shirik | yup I did |
| 23:20.11 | Iriel | It's an 'any value' dumper, structure, whatever |
| 23:20.24 | Cide | how do you handle tables though? |
| 23:20.28 | Iriel | You should download it anyway, it makes me feel more important |
| 23:20.30 | Cide | it's most useful for dumping tables |
| 23:20.48 | Shirik | it handles it exactly like PHP's print_r |
| 23:21.03 | Cide | so about the same way as /dump |
| 23:21.05 | Shirik | in fact, it's named VFL.print_r |
| 23:21.31 | subbot | so yeah why would it be nil :| |
| 23:21.32 | Shirik | heh, ok just for your sake Iriel I'll download it :) |
| 23:21.52 | Iriel | you get /dtframestack and /dteventtrace for free |
| 23:21.55 | Cide | does it do: t = { a = { } }; t.a.t = t; print_r(t) nicely? :) |
| 23:22.03 | Shirik | let's find out |
| 23:22.36 | Shirik | though considering I've done more complex tables than that |
| 23:22.36 | Shirik | I doubt it would have a problem |
| 23:22.36 | Cide | Iriel: don't forget /dtchatevent! |
| 23:23.30 | Cide | yeah, it's not that hard to handle, just have to keep it in mind |
| 23:23.30 | Shirik | I like VFL's debugging tools though :( |
| 23:23.57 | Shirik | hrm... I never wrote up a wiki page for VFL.print_r |
| 23:23.57 | Shirik | oops |
| 23:25.10 | Shirik | but how could you live without this gem! http://rdx.emoemu.com/wiki/index.php/API_VFL_conflict |
| 23:25.33 | Shirik | hrm I need to take a screenshot of what it looks like |
| 23:26.39 | subbot | is there some option to disable the pet bar or something that might be causing this? |
| 23:26.41 | subbot | im hunting for it |
| 23:29.50 | subbot | is it PetActionBarFrame instead of PetBarFrame? lol |
| 23:29.57 | subbot | it seems to be :( |
| 23:31.07 | Shirik | btw cide |
| 23:31.22 | Shirik | this is the result: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2379/atatv4.png |
| 23:31.45 | Cide | ah, nice :) |
| 23:32.06 | Cide | (at least it doesn't get stuck in an infinite loop!) |
| 23:32.09 | Iriel | How do you know that's the original table? |
| 23:32.22 | Cide | yeah, that would be my only concern as well |
| 23:33.25 | Iriel | Oh come on, armory.worldofwarcraft.com SO doesn't belong in the 'Your rights online' section of /. |
| 23:33.45 | subbot | lol |
| 23:33.51 | kergoth | hah |
| 23:34.07 | Shirik | iriel: |
| 23:34.11 | Shirik | it tracks what's already been done |
| 23:34.35 | Shirik | let me pastey the code for ya |
| 23:35.31 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/7453 |
| 23:35.38 | Cide | Shirik: I think he meant that there's no way to know that "table: 1443F5E8" is "a" |
| 23:36.03 | Shadowed | Iriel: It's on /.? |
| 23:36.05 | Shirik | sure there is |
| 23:36.10 | Shadowed | hahah so it is |
| 23:36.19 | Cide | Shirik: sure, if you want to tostring() every table in the output |
| 23:36.24 | Cide | but it's not very user friendly :) |
| 23:36.28 | Shirik | no |
| 23:36.33 | Shirik | you make a table, done = {} |
| 23:36.40 | Shadowed | The only reason people hate it is because they don't want to be called stupid for spending points in bad places |
| 23:36.43 | Cide | code-wise, sure |
| 23:36.45 | Cide | but I mean for the user |
| 23:36.46 | Shirik | done[value] = table |
| 23:36.48 | Cide | look at the output |
| 23:36.51 | Shirik | ooh |
| 23:36.52 | Shirik | ok |
| 23:37.03 | Shirik | the only case where it will end at a table is if it's going into an infinite loop |
| 23:37.12 | Cide | yeah, right |
| 23:37.18 | Cide | but it might be useful to know which table that is |
| 23:37.23 | Shirik | true |
| 23:37.30 | Cide | instead of its string representation |
| 23:39.26 | Cide | Shirik: http://ctscreens.net/5176 |
| 23:39.56 | Shirik | hmmm |
| 23:39.59 | Shirik | that's pretty nice |
| 23:41.21 | Shirik | there, I think that should do it; let's see |
| 23:41.38 | Cide | Shirik: it gets better! |
| 23:41.43 | Shirik | matter of changing done[value] = true, to done[value] = key |
| 23:41.49 | Shirik | stop trying to brainwash me T_T |
| 23:41.59 | Cide | http://ctscreens.net/5177 |
| 23:42.09 | Cide | (in case you have several tables with the same keys ;) |
| 23:42.18 | Shirik | *headdesk* |
| 23:42.30 | Shirik | I could do that but I'm too lazy right now |
| 23:42.36 | Shirik | I guess I'll just go grab Iriel's thingy |
| 23:42.42 | TC_Working | i want my office to look like this http://www.stefandidak.com/office/index.php |
| 23:43.00 | Cide | haha |
| 23:43.08 | Cide | I doubt that is useful very often |
| 23:43.12 | Cide | but it's nice when it does |
| 23:43.39 | Shirik | *starts salivating* |
| 23:44.21 | Shirik | back to the wowi updater... |
| 23:44.39 | Shirik | except I think netbeans crashed on me :( |
| 23:44.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@64.193.93.197) |
| 23:46.24 | cogwheel|work | Of all the custom print functions I've written for my addons, I think this one is my favorite: http://wowi.pastey.net/7454 |
| 23:46.57 | Cide | simplicity ftw :) |
| 23:47.51 | Cide | I use something similar |
| 23:48.04 | Shirik | that's equivalent to VFL.print :P |
| 23:48.32 | Shirik | mostly |
| 23:48.32 | Kaso | I like the name of the funcion |
| 23:49.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:57.24 | Shadowed | ~seen cladhaire |
| 23:57.35 | purl | cladhaire <n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 22h 3m 46s ago, saying: 'd is my favorite number'. |
