| 00:00.13 | Iriel | but if it reads an signed value that exceeds PHP's ability to represent it as an unsigned number, likely you'll end up with a signed one |
| 00:00.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge gnor (n=jaydee@cpe-76-173-212-2.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:00.24 | Iriel | unless PHP is using something interesting behind the scenes instead of a regular int |
| 00:00.51 | Teomyr | hmm, right |
| 00:03.49 | seebs | An unsigned can't be -1, but it can compare equal to -1, and it can convert to -1 converted to signed. (At least, in C. Not a PHP guy.) |
| 00:04.18 | seebs | Woot! I have a Cell Linux system working nicely. :) |
| 00:04.35 | Tain | Does PHP support imaginary numbers? |
| 00:04.46 | xsarpedon | Is there a way to delete a frame you created with the CreateFrame function? |
| 00:04.49 | bleetah | grats seebs :) bogomips of? |
| 00:05.00 | Tain | No, xsarpedon. |
| 00:05.13 | xsarpedon | Oh, so once you've created them you better keep using them eh :p |
| 00:05.15 | seebs | Haven't measured them yet. Hmm. |
| 00:05.33 | Tain | Did you pay for that PS3? |
| 00:05.43 | seebs | Yeah, although it's reimbursed and tax-deductible. |
| 00:05.45 | bleetah | dmesg|grep Bogo |
| 00:05.54 | bleetah | (measured by kernel at startup) |
| 00:06.11 | seebs | Yes, haven't got a console yet. Doing setup. |
| 00:06.26 | bleetah | well you don't have a cell linux system YET then :-P |
| 00:06.28 | seebs | Next up is getting it set up for 1080i instead of 720p. |
| 00:06.36 | Tain | Why? |
| 00:08.03 | seebs | Hey, I just logged in. :) |
| 00:08.03 | bleetah | hehe just messin' with you, mate :) |
| 00:08.04 | seebs | It'd cover more of the screen. My monitor's 1680x1050, and it'll go to 1080p, but then it gets a frame of static every so often. |
| 00:08.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (n=krka@c83-250-235-169.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 00:08.14 | seebs | WTF. 1124x644? |
| 00:10.54 | seebs | BTW, bogomips 158.72. |
| 00:11.16 | seebs | On the other hand, 6 SPUs. |
| 00:11.56 | bleetah | heh, nice. at least I know who to bug for setup help when I get one ;) |
| 00:12.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-83-207.onelinkpr.net) |
| 00:12.55 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:14.48 | ag` | But is there any 3d accelleration on the PS3 linux at all? |
| 00:15.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiar1 (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:16.24 | bleetah | most linux 3d accell for 'latest hardware' is either gimped, non-existent, or not open source |
| 00:16.58 | ag` | nah |
| 00:17.04 | ag` | Nvidia drivers are fine |
| 00:17.43 | bleetah | they'd be falling into the 'not open source' category :P |
| 00:17.43 | ag` | ATI drivers sucks, true, but who buys an ATI card when they know they're going to use Linux |
| 00:17.54 | ag` | which makes them unusable how? :P |
| 00:19.02 | bleetah | completely unusable if you want a pure open source platform |
| 00:19.25 | Tain | Open is a nice idea, but I like shit to work. |
| 00:19.51 | bleetah | better quit using computers then, 'coz a lot of stuff don't work as intended ;) |
| 00:20.05 | ag` | I think 80%+ percent uses Linux to use an other operating system, not to be 100% open source |
| 00:20.48 | seebs | ag: No support at all, Sony hides two SPUs, direct access to the blu-ray drive, and the GPU from Unix completely. |
| 00:21.13 | seebs | Doesn't matter much to me, because I just want it as a target for some cell development stuff and writing about. |
| 00:21.23 | seebs | Still, Sony's aggressively user-hostile attitude really annoys me. |
| 00:21.29 | bleetah | one day there's be some rich guy with nothing to do who'll set up an open source hardware vendor.. until then, /sigh |
| 00:22.11 | foxlit | open source hardware is probably an oxymoron. |
| 00:22.31 | axxo | its been tried on a gfx card |
| 00:22.36 | axxo | got canceled |
| 00:22.52 | foxlit | Somebody actually drew up a processor for the thing? |
| 00:23.10 | axxo | yeah, they got pritty far, had a company backing it |
| 00:23.12 | bleetah | yeah |
| 00:23.30 | bleetah | smaller open source hardware projects happen all the time, it's the big ticket items that no one's funding |
| 00:23.38 | Tain | Idealism doesn't put food on the table. |
| 00:23.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Insa2 (n=insa@149.83-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 00:24.00 | axxo | selling idealism does |
| 00:24.10 | axxo | ;) |
| 00:24.16 | Tain | Selling children does. |
| 00:24.30 | foxlit | selling idealistic children doesn't, ironically :/ |
| 00:24.48 | bleetah | it's actually more a practical reason I'd like to see it. For example, Australia has practically *no* electronics industry left. We're totally reliant on overseas manufacturers. It wouldn't really take much to foresee a situation where we'd have trouble importing goods, or getting stuff repaired. |
| 00:25.38 | bleetah | as an example, my father had to get a permit to buy an alarm clock during world war 2 |
| 00:26.10 | bleetah | if a similar situation arose, global warfare, and we'd be reliant on hackers to keep the tech industry going, we'd be screwed |
| 00:26.19 | Tain | That's because he was a commie. |
| 00:26.19 | bleetah | (trad. definition of hacker) |
| 00:26.40 | bleetah | um, no, that's because all clock manufacturing was being done in the US |
| 00:26.52 | bleetah | and priority went to bomb timers and the like |
| 00:26.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-83-207.onelinkpr.net) |
| 00:26.54 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:26.54 | foxlit | Even with open source instructions on how to manufacture something, you'd still probably be scerwed. |
| 00:27.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobble (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 00:27.33 | bleetah | true, but at least there wouldn't be the years of delay while people 're-invent' the wheel |
| 00:27.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:27.48 | seebs | WOO! ssh'd in to the PS3. |
| 00:28.10 | bleetah | of course, a government in a war situation like that would likely nationalise, or similar, hardware vendors and stuff... so I guess it's a bit of a null argument to some degree |
| 00:28.14 | bleetah | greats seebs |
| 00:28.24 | seebs | Which is good because I just killed the console. |
| 00:28.32 | seebs | <-- can destroy nearly any computer merely by looking at it funny |
| 00:30.21 | bleetah | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:32.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge seebs (n=seebs@mail.seebs.net) |
| 00:34.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge seebs (n=seebs@mail.seebs.net) |
| 00:34.43 | seebs | Hee. |
| 00:34.58 | seebs | So, I'm debugging the X server on another machine, and it's not working, so I hit control-alt-backspace... |
| 00:35.00 | seebs | Smoooooooth. |
| 00:35.48 | Iriel | ifconfig eth0 down is a favorite of mine |
| 00:38.48 | seebs | What I really ought to do is try to convince my editor that I absolutely NEED an HDTV which can display 1080p. |
| 00:38.58 | seebs | My closest fit is a 1050-pixel display that can't quite handle 1080p. |
| 00:40.10 | MentalPower|PC | 1920x1200, but the processor can't handle 1080p |
| 00:43.23 | seebs | I would love one of those. |
| 00:43.28 | seebs | Some day. |
| 00:43.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge lectrd (n=marco000@vsat-148-64-180-11.c005.g4.mrt.starband.net) |
| 00:45.04 | Industrial | haste: ping need you in wow |
| 00:45.15 | Industrial | getting ganked |
| 00:45.16 | Industrial | :E |
| 00:45.17 | phreaky | Any1 know if there is an addon out there that got an ignore-word-list? Like you can add words to a list and then it ignores all whispers etc that includes that word? |
| 00:46.35 | subbot | haven't heard of one, doesn't sound too hard to implement |
| 00:46.50 | phreaky | I want that so bad! :) |
| 00:47.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 00:47.09 | phreaky | I'd love to ignore whispers with "www" etc to avoid goldselling spam etc |
| 00:47.16 | subbot | you should write it! |
| 00:47.27 | phreaky | I wish i could! =( |
| 00:47.36 | phreaky | I don't know jack sh*t about lua etc =) |
| 00:47.48 | Tierrie|Work | dude |
| 00:47.53 | Tierrie|Work | i would totally tap that |
| 00:48.03 | bleetah | I'm working on a massive ignore addon |
| 00:48.12 | Tierrie|Work | include that feature |
| 00:48.12 | haste | Industrial: going to boost two throught SM now, so it's a rather bad timing :p |
| 00:48.13 | bleetah | more options than you can poke a stick at |
| 00:48.18 | Industrial | haste: k |
| 00:48.25 | phreaky | bleetah: including that i asked for? =D |
| 00:48.33 | bleetah | yeah, it's going to include ignore word support, including some form of expression parsing |
| 00:48.41 | phreaky | sounds neat |
| 00:48.43 | Tierrie|Work | let it do limited regexps! |
| 00:48.47 | Tierrie|Work | like *wildcards* |
| 00:49.01 | bleetah | hopefully, it'd support the native LUA expression system |
| 00:49.14 | Tierrie|Work | i think you should support wildcards because people are lua naive |
| 00:49.24 | bleetah | haven't really investigated that part yet, time's pulled twelve ways, the current version errors out on load hehe |
| 00:49.25 | Tierrie|Work | and more than that -- most people are regexp naive |
| 00:49.47 | bleetah | anyways, it'll be called 'Ignorance' |
| 00:50.11 | KarlThePagan | I need a better name for my LFG addon |
| 00:50.14 | bleetah | (name stolen from a gaim plugin that achieves same results) |
| 00:50.17 | phreaky | bleetah: is it something that's far away in the future ? |
| 00:50.53 | KarlThePagan | it uses the Blizzard LFG system, not channels and basically puts you in the LFG system as much as it can |
| 00:50.54 | bleetah | depends how you measure time, being relative and all makes 'far away' quite subjective in it's definition ;) |
| 00:51.01 | phreaky | oh my... 45 min waiting time for AB.. >.< |
| 00:51.06 | bleetah | hopefully in the next week or two I'll have a first version out, of some stuff |
| 00:51.17 | phreaky | bleetah: sounds great, looking forward to it :) |
| 00:51.27 | Cide | you can do something like that in ~4 lines of code (the list of words to filter excluded) |
| 00:51.41 | phreaky | Cide: I would have made it if i just knew how :) |
| 00:53.14 | phreaky | it would be nice with a few more features though, like replying with something .. and maybe accept it from friends/guildmates |
| 00:54.03 | Cide | local handler = ChatFrame_MessageEventHandler; function ChatFrame_MessageEventHandler(event, message, ...) if ( event == "CHAT_MSG_WHISPER" and message ) for k, v in ipairs(words) do if ( message:match(v) ) then return; end end end return handler(event, message, ...) end |
| 00:54.07 | Cide | there you go! |
| 00:54.32 | Cide | just add a list of words above it; local words = { "www", "gold", "test", "moo" } |
| 00:54.51 | phreaky | hehe oh.. thanks :P |
| 00:54.54 | bleetah | Ignorance will feature the much used elsewhere larger friends/ignore list, a bunch of options for stuff you want to ignore by default (eg, whispers from nonfriends/nonguildies but you'll be able to set up an allied guild to pass thru the filter) |
| 00:55.30 | Cide | oops, missed a "then" - ... MSG_WHISPER" and message ) then ... |
| 00:56.16 | phreaky | I wish i'd have some experience in coding |
| 00:56.29 | KarlThePagan | game addons are a great way to get coding experience |
| 00:56.42 | KarlThePagan | it is actually something I would look for on a resume |
| 00:56.46 | phreaky | Don't really know where to start though, when u got zero skills :) |
| 00:57.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:57.37 | KarlThePagan | you can start here: http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaTutorial |
| 00:57.52 | subbot | i just downloaded a "hello world" mod |
| 00:57.58 | phreaky | I'll do that, thanks KarlThePagan :) |
| 00:58.03 | subbot | and then looked up API stuff on wowwiki |
| 00:58.08 | subbot | and began hacking stuff together :P |
| 00:58.35 | phreaky | What's the hello world mod? =) |
| 00:58.57 | subbot | i found it on the wow macro/ui forums |
| 00:59.06 | subbot | in a thread titled "resources for mod authors" or something like that |
| 00:59.29 | phreaky | okey |
| 00:59.32 | KarlThePagan | here's an Ace2 one - http://www.wowace.com/wiki/WelcomeHome_-_Your_first_Ace2_Addon |
| 00:59.49 | Cide | I would definitely not start with writing ace2 addons |
| 01:00.00 | phreaky | So wich program do u guys use for coding lua? |
| 01:00.13 | KarlThePagan | well it's one way of looking at it... a library-rich environment |
| 01:00.28 | KarlThePagan | phreaky, I use the version of SciTE from wowinterface.com |
| 01:00.28 | Cide | notepad is fine, but rather lacking for more complex stuff - I use TextPad |
| 01:00.37 | Cide | KarlThePagan: which is exactly why you shouldn't start using it |
| 01:00.49 | phreaky | That page was nice though, i'd like one of those for non ace also :) |
| 01:01.01 | bleetah | I use notepad++ on Win32 (or gvim or plain old vi when I'm on Linux) |
| 01:01.02 | Cide | I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's the reason why you learn to use simple math before moving on to calculators that do the work for you |
| 01:01.05 | KarlThePagan | you can compile and test-execute with SciTE so it's good for learning the language (and unit testing) |
| 01:02.29 | ckknight|work | Cide: why would you definitely not start with writing ace2 addons? |
| 01:02.38 | Cide | ckknight|work: read my previous statement |
| 01:02.53 | ckknight|work | oh |
| 01:02.56 | KarlThePagan | "calculators vs basic math" |
| 01:03.16 | Tain | It dependns entirely what your end purpose is. |
| 01:03.18 | ckknight|work | though your statement does have some validity, would you code Perl without CPAN? C without libc? C++ without STL? |
| 01:03.23 | cladhaire | you need to know WHY you're doing before you try to have something do it for you |
| 01:03.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@205-196-182-22.static.cmts1.phonoscope.net) |
| 01:03.31 | KarlThePagan | java without a classpath |
| 01:03.33 | Tain | Getting results, or understanding why you're getting results. |
| 01:03.34 | Cide | Tain: if learning something is your goal, you want to understand what's happening |
| 01:03.36 | Bouvi | Got a question. I do this: SetAutoLootDefault(0) and it turns AutoLoot off but if I reload UI or zone it gets turned back 0n. Why is it not holding the value? I know I left out something. |
| 01:03.50 | Tain | There's a time and a place for both. |
| 01:03.56 | ckknight|work | maybe you don't _need_ to learn the intricacies of event handling and such |
| 01:04.02 | cladhaire | .... |
| 01:04.03 | cladhaire | yes you do |
| 01:04.05 | ckknight|work | and instead want to focus on your own necessary business logic |
| 01:04.08 | Tain | No, you don't. |
| 01:04.12 | Tain | I don't know how a car works, I just use it. |
| 01:04.20 | cladhaire | *sigh* |
| 01:04.25 | foxlit | But then again, you don't make any attempts to _make_ cars |
| 01:04.25 | Kirkburn | It goes. |
| 01:04.28 | Cide | a valid argument would be to drive a car without learning how to drive |
| 01:04.35 | Tain | If I *want* to know how it works then I would. |
| 01:04.36 | Kirkburn | Brrmmm, brrmmmm, brrrmmmm. Parp! |
| 01:04.38 | cladhaire | i dont' need to learn why decursive works.. i just use it |
| 01:04.38 | ckknight|work | cladhaire: I know how to program C++ without knowing the intricacies of a CISC processor. |
| 01:04.40 | KarlThePagan | LFG mod name ideas - "MatchMaker" "Grouper" "PerfectLFG" "SuperLFG" "TurboLFG".... |
| 01:04.43 | cladhaire | but if i want to know it, i need to know why |
| 01:04.55 | foxlit | FindMeAGroupAlready! |
| 01:04.55 | End | maybe learning how to drive manual before driving an automatic? |
| 01:05.06 | Kirkburn | Honk! Honk! |
| 01:05.15 | cladhaire | there is a difference between using, and between writing |
| 01:05.17 | ckknight|work | KarlThePagan: lvl 50 Feral Druid LFG LBRS! |
| 01:05.33 | Tain | hah! Tell that to thousands of Visual BASIC developers. |
| 01:05.33 | cladhaire | you sure as hell would need to understand the CISC insruction set to write at that level. |
| 01:05.40 | cladhaire | make everyone idiots if you want |
| 01:05.43 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 01:05.48 | ckknight|work | cladhaire: why would I need to write at that level? |
| 01:05.54 | cladhaire | you don't.. but if you did |
| 01:05.59 | cladhaire | you're making parallels that don't exist |
| 01:06.01 | cladhaire | they want to write mods |
| 01:06.06 | cladhaire | they should learn how and why they're doing what they're doing |
| 01:06.07 | ckknight|work | that's the point, you don't need to know how. |
| 01:06.08 | cladhaire | plain and simple. |
| 01:06.17 | Tain | That's not how reality works though, cladhaire. |
| 01:06.18 | foxlit | Ace2 is a bit of a crutch. |
| 01:06.24 | Cide | Tain: yes, yes it is |
| 01:06.25 | ckknight|work | how, foxlit? |
| 01:06.25 | cladhaire | yes it is |
| 01:06.29 | cladhaire | this isn't opinino |
| 01:06.30 | cladhaire | this is fact |
| 01:06.32 | cladhaire | look at your community |
| 01:06.34 | ckknight|work | no, it's opinion |
| 01:06.50 | cladhaire | whatevs dude. |
| 01:06.51 | Cide | ckknight|work: are you also suggesting that people shouldn't learn to use lua? |
| 01:06.53 | seebs | I'm a big fan of learning how things work at least some before getting involved. That said, I never learned any kind of assembly, and I do okay at programming. |
| 01:06.53 | KarlThePagan | lol |
| 01:07.01 | Cide | what's the keyword "local" for anyway? |
| 01:07.01 | KarlThePagan | man did I do this? |
| 01:07.02 | Tain | It's not about what people should or shouldn't do. |
| 01:07.05 | foxlit | Cide: lego environment for addon design! |
| 01:07.06 | cladhaire | you have fun with that. |
| 01:07.08 | Tain | It's about what they are able to do. |
| 01:07.09 | ckknight|work | Cide: never said that, they should totally learn all those things |
| 01:07.11 | Cide | KarlThePagan: don't worry - discussions are fun |
| 01:07.18 | ckknight|work | Cide: but Ace2 doesn't help with locals |
| 01:07.18 | foxlit | Like that old Mindstorms UI. |
| 01:07.21 | Cide | ckknight|work: so you're drawing an arbitrary line |
| 01:07.23 | seebs | I don't know Ace well enough to comment on whether it's a good thing to learn modding without it before starting. |
| 01:07.24 | ckknight|work | if it did, it'd be a different situation. |
| 01:07.26 | cladhaire | completely arbitrary. |
| 01:07.33 | ckknight|work | Cide: the line is at what Ace2 provides and what it doesn't. |
| 01:07.41 | KarlThePagan | Cide, this is almost as good as last tues? when you were here about GMail |
| 01:07.57 | Cide | KarlThePagan: I was right then, and I think I'm right now too |
| 01:08.02 | Tain | People may as well code in assembly! What's the use of all this "high level" language crap! |
| 01:08.23 | KarlThePagan | you were right then, but I'm ambivolent about the current discussion |
| 01:08.33 | ckknight|work | Cide was right about GMail. |
| 01:08.44 | ckknight|work | and I agree with the end result |
| 01:08.45 | KarlThePagan | good libraries are like a lot of extra rope |
| 01:08.55 | Cide | Tain: if people code in assembly they learn about the inner workings of memory handling |
| 01:09.00 | KarlThePagan | a good programmer will find it very useful |
| 01:09.00 | cladhaire | People need to understand what and why they're doing. |
| 01:09.08 | cladhaire | otherwise they never appreicate what the library provides. |
| 01:09.09 | KarlThePagan | a bad programmer will just hang themselves that much sooner |
| 01:09.15 | cladhaire | and thus never use it effectively. |
| 01:09.18 | ckknight|work | Cide: sometimes the compiler can do a better job at optimizing than a human can. |
| 01:09.21 | ZealotOnAStick | cladhaire - there's also differences in goal. |
| 01:09.33 | Cide | ckknight|work: and the rest of the time, it can't |
| 01:09.33 | ckknight|work | very true, ZealotOnAStick |
| 01:09.39 | KarlThePagan | cladhaire, you could make the same argument about garbage collection and virtual machines :/ |
| 01:09.43 | Cide | ZealotOnAStick: the goal in this discussion is to learn |
| 01:09.46 | ckknight|work | Cide: that rest of the time is a very, very small amount nowadays. |
| 01:09.52 | cladhaire | learning is never bad. |
| 01:09.53 | ckknight|work | learning is for nubs! |
| 01:09.57 | cladhaire | *sigh* |
| 01:10.07 | seebs | Often, people who learn assembly end up holding a lot of false beliefs about other systems, because they assume "computers" work the way a given architecture did. |
| 01:10.12 | KarlThePagan | now he's just being contrary and you know it lol |
| 01:10.19 | cladhaire | seebs: Then they were taught incorrectly. |
| 01:10.23 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 01:10.25 | seebs | Well, that happens. |
| 01:10.28 | cladhaire | well? |
| 01:10.32 | cladhaire | isn't this the same? |
| 01:10.41 | seebs | I learned C as a language itself, and I never did assembly until I got good at C. I'm much better off, IMHO. |
| 01:10.43 | cladhaire | Everyone who learns with Ace will think that every addon work like Ace |
| 01:10.48 | cladhaire | and they won't be able to even read a basic non-ace addon |
| 01:10.53 | ZealotOnAStick | Cide: isn't learning how to use libraries and work in an OO environment also valuable? |
| 01:10.54 | cladhaire | that is a bad thing, in my humble opinion. |
| 01:10.56 | Tain | The majority of people who get paid to code software for a living don't understand the libraries they use. |
| 01:11.09 | cladhaire | Tain: But they understand what they're providing. |
| 01:11.11 | Tain | Of course it is a bad thing, but that doesn't make it not any less of a reality. |
| 01:11.12 | cladhaire | That's different. |
| 01:11.15 | KarlThePagan | cladhaire, I don't see how that's possible |
| 01:11.16 | seebs | I don't know about that; it's an interesting question. |
| 01:11.16 | Droolio | i first learned z80 machine code, 1's and 0's ftw |
| 01:11.23 | cladhaire | I dont want people to learn how ace is coded, I want them to learn WHAT and WHy its doing. |
| 01:11.31 | cladhaire | KarlThePagan: How? |
| 01:11.37 | KarlThePagan | It's like learning C++ and then seeing stdout function... |
| 01:11.37 | Saroz | but... why |
| 01:11.40 | seebs | I could see it as being quite reasonable to simply decide that you never plan to maintain any non-ace code, on the grounds that the basic WoW API is a little weak in spots. |
| 01:11.46 | Tain | So do I. But I'm not under any illusions that people *have* to understand it. |
| 01:11.46 | Cide | ZealotOnAStick: of course it is |
| 01:11.57 | KarlThePagan | the C++ programmer doesn't go WTF? warez my out << " ldkjfdlksf" he just sees a function call |
| 01:12.04 | nymbia | cladhaire: so you're saying that it's irresponsible to provide those tools, given that people will use them without understanding how they work or how to do things without them? |
| 01:12.05 | KarlThePagan | and figures out the function call |
| 01:12.09 | ZealotOnAStick | Now, I have issues with people being lazy and using Ace2 to make sloppy code. |
| 01:12.13 | Tain | A tiny percentage of coders know what they're doing. The rest are maintenance coders. |
| 01:12.22 | ckknight|work | Ace2 is the devil because it allows stupid developers to code addons, which is very, very true. It also allows good developers to code addons a lot easier (and in some cases faster and with less bugs). For the stupid developers, they may learn better coding practices along the way. |
| 01:12.25 | Cide | nymbia: what? he hasn't said anything that backs that statement up |
| 01:12.29 | Barbanus | I much rather prefer to make my mods in a way that is closed, and not allow any outside help or collaboration, but meh .. thats just me. |
| 01:12.29 | ZealotOnAStick | But I'm more than happy to utilize the ease of localization concerns that AceLocale gives me, for example. |
| 01:12.30 | ckknight|work | there's also the helpful community aspect |
| 01:12.50 | Cide | ckknight|work: that's a ridiculous argument |
| 01:12.51 | Tain | Well the Ace community is a bunch of assholes. But they are also sometimes helpful. |
| 01:12.59 | nymbia | Cide: <cladhaire> and they won't be able to even read a basic non-ace addon |
| 01:12.59 | nymbia | <cladhaire> that is a bad thing, in my humble opinion. |
| 01:13.03 | cladhaire | You can't expect them to learn lua, and then not expect them to learn some of the basics of addon writing, that is irresponsible in my opinion. |
| 01:13.19 | cladhaire | nymbia: I didn't say it was irresponsible, I said it was a bad idea. |
| 01:13.21 | Tain | But why break from the tradition of what people get paid to do? |
| 01:13.30 | ckknight|work | Cide: back up your statement. |
| 01:13.35 | Barbanus | Oh, completely rediculous to want to code addons faster and with less bugs. |
| 01:13.44 | Tain | Not everyone has a passion for it, they just want to do something. |
| 01:13.44 | cladhaire | When someone asks how to start learning addons, and you have a choice, why would give them the abstraction first? what does that GAIN them,? |
| 01:13.45 | Barbanus | I mean, who would want that? |
| 01:13.46 | ZealotOnAStick | Tain: that's a mighty big generalization. Do you really feel that's a fair one? |
| 01:13.47 | Saroz | but so what? really, so what if people don't know the very basics of coding addons, that doesn't make Ace bad |
| 01:13.49 | Barbanus | Bugs are good! |
| 01:13.49 | seebs | I don't know about responsible/irresponsible. If I were trying to teach someone Java, I'd probably use Buoy instead of Swing, because it sucks less. |
| 01:13.51 | Cide | ckknight|work: there is an equally helpful community on both sides of the fence |
| 01:14.01 | Cide | ckknight|work: unless, of course, you have facts that prove otherwise |
| 01:14.03 | seebs | I'd just point out "this is a wrapper on top of a much uglier library." |
| 01:14.05 | Tain | Actually I do, ZealotOnAStick. |
| 01:14.10 | KarlThePagan | what's irresponsible about providing a new framework?... is it irresponsible to learn CORBA because it runs on top of a socket library? |
| 01:14.24 | nymbia | cladhaire: so ace is a bad idea just cuz people will pick it up and write addons without learning some of the basics? |
| 01:14.29 | Cide | ckknight|work: if you do not have such facts, you can't say that the "ace community" makes coding ace addons a better choice for a beginner over non-ace addons |
| 01:14.44 | cladhaire | this is not a discussion abotu whethe ror not ace is bad. |
| 01:14.47 | Tain | Sometimes people just want a result. They want to know what thirty-seven times fourty-six is, they don't care about the details of getting there. |
| 01:14.49 | Cide | nymbia: all good things can be used in a bad way |
| 01:14.52 | cladhaire | so stop that righ tnow |
| 01:15.02 | Cide | Tain: yes, but people that want a result aren't in for learning, are they? |
| 01:15.05 | ckknight|work | Cide: ah, it's easier to start off with to do big things, cause it takes care of the little details |
| 01:15.06 | ZealotOnAStick | Tain: so by your assertion, there are no people who aren't assholes (occasional helpfulness aside) in the Ace2 community? Sorry, but I just find that a tad ludicrous. |
| 01:15.10 | Tain | No Cide, that's the point. |
| 01:15.20 | Cide | Tain: then you came to the wrong dicussion |
| 01:15.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gagorian (n=k@GMMMCCXLVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 01:15.23 | Tain | Not everyone is interested in learning, they want to code an addon for the end-result. |
| 01:15.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Doonga (i=medoonga@c-24-61-25-80.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:15.26 | Cide | s/dicussion/discussion |
| 01:15.32 | ckknight|work | We are not all about learning! |
| 01:15.33 | nymbia | cladhaire: cide's taking it in that direction, but i'll stop, apologies. |
| 01:15.39 | ckknight|work | learning is not the end goal in all cases! |
| 01:15.43 | Cide | nymbia: no, I'm not |
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| 01:15.48 | ckknight|work | sometimes having a good mod that works and is efficient is the goal! |
| 01:15.49 | Cide | ckknight|work: you also came to the wrong discussion then |
| 01:15.51 | seebs | In my experience, if someone isn't interested in learning, there's not much point in trying to help them get an end result. |
| 01:15.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kagaro (n=kagaro@cpe-069-134-153-219.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:15.55 | Cide | let me quote what started this discussion |
| 01:16.01 | seebs | Unless, of course, you just wanna do it for them. :) |
| 01:16.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Meiun (i=asd@h142n1fls31o883.telia.com) |
| 01:16.58 | cladhaire | Is an addon library a valuable tool for someone making a new addon.. absolutely, it could have great value for them. Is an addon library the best way to learn how to write addons. NO. That's what this discussion is about. |
| 01:17.07 | cladhaire | neither Cide nor myself took it anywhere else, period. |
| 01:17.19 | cladhaire | not that Cide wants to be on my side, but its true =) |
| 01:17.24 | Tain | I just don't agree with saying that someone who enters an equation in a calculator is a bad person because they don't know how to figure it out with a pencil and paper. |
| 01:17.28 | seebs | It may be the best way to learn how to make addons which are totally dependant on that addon library. :) |
| 01:17.33 | Cide | cladhaire: what? go away! |
| 01:17.40 | ckknight|work | frankly, I think learning to use without libraries is good, but I also think learning to use with libraries is more realistic. |
| 01:17.46 | seebs | They're not bad, but they're gonna be at a huge disadvantage if they can't do things without a calculator. |
| 01:17.55 | cladhaire | seebs: Which is a counterproductive goal |
| 01:17.56 | Tain | Why? |
| 01:17.59 | End | Tain: if they don't know how to do it by hand, do they really understand what they just did? |
| 01:18.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 01:18.12 | Tain | They don't *HAVE* to understand! |
| 01:18.15 | Tain | They got their result. |
| 01:18.22 | foxlit | Ah, but then things go wrong |
| 01:18.28 | seebs | Teach a man to fish, etc. |
| 01:18.35 | foxlit | And suddenly "Look it's broken. Must be magic at work here!" |
| 01:18.41 | Tain | But not everyone wants to know how to fish. |
| 01:18.46 | Tain | That's why we have supermarkets. |
| 01:19.07 | sylvanaar | i dont see how this is unique to addons....libraries are how things are accomplished in programming |
| 01:19.08 | cladhaire | Tain: you can give someone whatever they want. I'm never just going to point someone at something, and say "make it work, don't even try to learn about why its working" |
| 01:19.14 | Cide | we have supermarkets because people don't *want* to fish |
| 01:19.18 | seebs | Sure. Which is to say, if they don't wanna fish, they should pay someone else to write addons; not write addons poorly. |
| 01:19.30 | nymbia | Cide: i sure as hell dont want to fish. it's cold out. |
| 01:19.33 | cladhaire | seebs: exactly |
| 01:19.34 | Cide | similarly, we have calculators because people don't *WANT* to do it by hand |
| 01:19.35 | End | I don't know, somehow having a calculator doing math for me without understanding what |
| 01:19.35 | Tain | But cladhaire not everyone wants to know why. |
| 01:19.39 | seebs | There was an excellent research project once on people and calculators. |
| 01:19.40 | End | I'm doing doesn't seem very useful |
| 01:20.03 | Tain | I don't think someone should be forced to do something they don't want to do, when they don't have to if they don't want to. |
| 01:20.05 | seebs | They took a bunch of kids, and tested them on their ability to estimate arithmetic quickly. The ones who were good, they took the real test. |
| 01:20.10 | Cide | End: and every learning process is focused around understanding |
| 01:20.21 | ckknight|work | here's an example: Why make your own regex implementation when someone already has an implementation that's ready and available to use? sure you would learn more about regexes if you made your own, but it could take longer, be buggier, and your final result will come a lot slower. |
| 01:20.21 | foxlit | Calculators should come with books explaining how they work |
| 01:20.28 | End | Cide: I agree |
| 01:20.29 | seebs | The real test is a huge test with lots of arithmetic in it, and the kids are given calculators. The calculators are gimmicked so that they get progressively more inaccurate. |
| 01:20.30 | Cide | foxlit: the good ones do :) |
| 01:20.31 | foxlit | There are countless times I've wanted to look up how it does something. |
| 01:20.39 | cladhaire | Tain: If someone doesn't want to learn, then they shouldn't be writing addons. |
| 01:20.42 | cladhaire | at least one some level. |
| 01:20.49 | Cide | but it would be cool to see some of the algorithms used |
| 01:20.51 | Tain | I just disagree with that conclusion. |
| 01:20.55 | cladhaire | ckknight|work: But you need to know WHY you need the regexp library. |
| 01:20.58 | seebs | Most of the kids -- and they are KNOWN to be good at estimating results, so they could check their work -- don't even notice. Only a couple mention that something seems odd. |
| 01:21.01 | cladhaire | you don't get that with what your'e talking about. |
| 01:21.06 | ckknight|work | cladhaire: thus you read the documentation? |
| 01:21.18 | Cide | and.. gasp.. learn |
| 01:21.22 | sylvanaar | you can say the same thing about using java to develop for platforms you have never seen, or using .NET to develop windows applications |
| 01:21.24 | cladhaire | shocking. |
| 01:21.37 | Tain | Some people write an addon because they want it to do something. They have no desire to learn, they want a result. That isn't a bad thing. |
| 01:21.45 | ckknight|work | sylvanaar: or using Win32/Gtk+/Qt instead of rolling your own |
| 01:21.57 | seebs | Tain, it's not a bad thing in and of itself, but it becomes a bad thing when, because they don't want to learn, they do it badly and it makes hassle for others. |
| 01:22.11 | Industrial | --^ |
| 01:22.14 | Cide | sigh, you're taking it to the level where we should all invent mathematics ourselves in order to use it - just to understand the history of it |
| 01:22.15 | Tain | What do others have to do with it? |
| 01:22.17 | seebs | If they aren't comfortable with the fact that they'll have to do some learning to write a program efficiently or well, then it's a problem. |
| 01:22.23 | sylvanaar | yeah, there is no end until you reach the processor opcodes |
| 01:22.26 | Tain | It is NOT a problem. |
| 01:22.34 | *** part/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 01:22.41 | Tain | It is disagreeable to someone who WANTS to write good code. |
| 01:22.46 | Industrial | its a problem the moment they release the addon |
| 01:22.59 | Tain | But that has nothing to do with the desires of someone who isn't interested in the ones and zeros behind it. |
| 01:22.59 | Cide | if you want to learn how to code wow addons specifically, there is no need to go down in level until you reach the level of asm |
| 01:23.05 | seebs | It's a problem because, as an example, bugs in their code will inevitably cause them to submit bug reports for other addons that aren't buggy. |
| 01:23.15 | cladhaire | there's a non-arbitrary appropriate level. |
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| 01:23.32 | sylvanaar | you are using C, you dont want to learn how to write function preambles and calling conventions for arguement passing? |
| 01:23.32 | Tain | So the desire for other people to write code to your expectations is a purely selfish one, seebs. |
| 01:23.32 | Cide | I think what cladhaire and I are saying that you shouldn't go *UP* in level until you know what you're doing on the initial level that you're set on learning - going *DOWN* in level is useless |
| 01:23.36 | seebs | It's a problem because they will probably release a buggy addon that clashes with other code, or slows things down, and then everyone has to deal with the side-effects. |
| 01:23.50 | cladhaire | Okay, simple question |
| 01:23.53 | nymbia | anyway, i came into this discussion at the wrong time to understand fully what was going on, apologies for that cladhaire and Cide. i started writing addons long before ace existed, but i still choose to use it today -- so i guess i'm not the type of person we're talking about. anyway, i don't think it's such a bad thing that someone can casually pick up ace and throw an addon together without having any addon or other lua experience. |
| 01:23.53 | nymbia | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:23.54 | seebs | Not really, Tain. It's a pragmatic thing. It's like my belief that only people who are willing to learn to drive well should drive. |
| 01:24.00 | Cide | if you're in for coding wow addons, you shouldn't go down to assembly level. similarly, if you're in for learning how to use ace, you don't have to learn how to code addons |
| 01:24.01 | cladhaire | since apparently Cide and I are the only ones who disagree. |
| 01:24.15 | End | no, you and Cide aren't the only ones |
| 01:24.18 | End | I'm just pvping :P |
| 01:24.19 | seebs | I understand that some people don't want to spend a lot of time learning to drive, they just want to go somewhere. However, it is bad for EVERYONE ELSE if we just hand them a car. |
| 01:24.48 | Tain | I think it's simply foolish to force personal opinions as to why someone codes onto everyone who does. |
| 01:24.59 | Cide | look - ace might be nice for saving time and getting the job done - but it doesn't help learning the quirks of wow addon writing |
| 01:25.04 | Barbanus | Well, IMO, the truth is in the pudding as they say .... more mods are being converted over to Ace2 than anything right now .. and there has to be a reason ... easier, better, doesnt matter .. the truth is that it is happening. |
| 01:25.07 | subbot | that's not even close to an appropriate analogy seebs |
| 01:25.08 | cladhaire | If you hand someone who wants to learn to code addons, what do you gain by handing them an Ace tutorial over an AddOn writing tutorial. |
| 01:25.14 | cladhaire | Barbanus: thats a bullshit argument. |
| 01:25.15 | Cide | Barbanus: which is stupid |
| 01:25.18 | cladhaire | For what we're talkign about. |
| 01:25.30 | Cide | and what cladhaire said |
| 01:25.30 | Tain | Ace has nothing to do with it at this point. Ace has just become an arbitrary element. |
| 01:25.36 | ckknight|work | I do not want to force the world to use Ace. Cide, I do not want to force you to use Ace. I just want people to have the opportunity to be able to, because I think it is the best solution available today |
| 01:25.41 | cladhaire | Ace has become the figurehead for "An AddOn Library" |
| 01:25.45 | sylvanaar | make the same arguement about .NET |
| 01:25.53 | sylvanaar | you know what, you can |
| 01:25.59 | cladhaire | sylvanaar: Who? |
| 01:26.05 | Cide | ckknight|work: that's fine and dandy - but don't argue that it helps you learn how to code wow addons |
| 01:26.13 | Tain | Since anyone who doesn't code Lua to the same level of expertise as someone else shouldn't be doing it. |
| 01:26.16 | ckknight|work | so by telling people about the welcomehome tutorial, maybe they'll learn about the great library in building their addon |
| 01:26.39 | sylvanaar | You can say that .NET coding doesnt let you learn about the nueances of win32 development |
| 01:27.01 | Tain | Just like C++ codinng doesn't let you learn the nuances of Assembly development. |
| 01:27.04 | ckknight|work | hehe, quite true, sylvanaar |
| 01:27.08 | nymbia | Cide: it's not advertised as a learning tool, and i agree that it's existance allows new addon writers to skip learning a lot of the ins and outs of writing addons -- and there is some harm in that, but, i don't think it's as much as you're making it out to be. |
| 01:27.10 | seebs | Well, I can also say that .NET requires the user to download a huge runtime and be locked into yet another generation of proprietary junk. :) |
| 01:27.13 | cladhaire | sylvanaar: Well, the .NET API was designed, by Microsoft to supercede the Win32/MFC API |
| 01:27.25 | cladhaire | and by .NET I mean, the new versions of VC++ and VC# |
| 01:27.34 | Tain | And woe be onto those who use the STL! |
| 01:27.36 | sylvanaar | for a certain class of developer |
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| 01:27.55 | ckknight|work | cladhaire: and we designed Ace2... |
| 01:27.57 | Tain | I blame AnduinLothar. |
| 01:27.58 | ckknight|work | hey AnduinLothar |
| 01:28.02 | ckknight|work | ~blame AnduinLothar |
| 01:28.05 | purl | ACTION blames AnduinLothar (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 01:28.05 | Barbanus | I know how to code in 10+ languages, however, I have never used lua, and you are damn right a library helped me learn.... I don't need the low-level knowledge, I get it .. been there done that ... so it works for me. |
| 01:28.06 | End | I blame AnduinLothar as well |
| 01:28.09 | AnduinLothar | i blam eme too |
| 01:28.12 | End | lol |
| 01:28.20 | Tain | I heard he's working on the Cosmace project. |
| 01:28.25 | ckknight|work | AnduinLothar: you came in at a bad time, they're smacking down on libraries, which I guess would include Sea and everything like that. |
| 01:28.36 | cladhaire | What the fuck? |
| 01:28.38 | AnduinLothar | Sea was the first |
| 01:28.38 | cladhaire | no we're not; |
| 01:28.43 | sylvanaar | it does not superceed win32, just allows people who dont want to work that close to the machine to still develop for the windows platform |
| 01:28.47 | Industrial | Tain: lol |
| 01:28.48 | Fisker- | what about smacking down on librarians? |
| 01:28.48 | Cide | um, yeah.. what? |
| 01:28.52 | ckknight|work | AnduinLothar: and it's quite nice, all in all. |
| 01:28.58 | AnduinLothar | actualyl Cosmos the addon was actually the first i think |
| 01:29.01 | Tain | On the fifth day the lord said, "Let there be Sea." |
| 01:29.04 | Cide | ckknight|work made an ignorant statement, nothing to see here |
| 01:29.05 | cladhaire | We are saying that handing someone who is asking how to learn an addon library over a basic tutorial is a bad idea in our opinion, and will not help them learn as well. |
| 01:29.11 | Barbanus | AnduinLothar, I believe you are correct. |
| 01:29.12 | cladhaire | that's all we've said this whole damn conversation. |
| 01:29.13 | ckknight|work | AnduinLothar: was Cosmos an addon in and of itself at one time? |
| 01:29.30 | AnduinLothar | yes, it was the orig config system |
| 01:29.39 | Tain | Well you also said that a person who doesn't want to learn the hows and whys behind development shouldn't be doing it either. |
| 01:29.55 | cladhaire | Tain: And made it plain as fucking day that that was my opinion. |
| 01:30.03 | cladhaire | So don't quote me as "bashing libraries", etc. |
| 01:30.10 | Industrial | :> |
| 01:30.11 | phreaky | I feel kinda responsible for this argument ^^ |
| 01:30.15 | Tain | Oh no, I think you're bashing people, not libraries. |
| 01:30.19 | Cide | phreaky: arguments are fun! |
| 01:30.20 | Barbanus | cladhaire, and me, who has done a ton of other coding, and codes for a living, using a library was a good thing, because I get whats going on behind the scenes, and I dont care to write it from scratch |
| 01:30.20 | cladhaire | Really? |
| 01:30.22 | ckknight|work | sorry, cladhaire, I must've misinterpreted you. |
| 01:30.22 | cladhaire | who have I bashed? |
| 01:30.30 | cladhaire | name one person in this room I have bashed. |
| 01:30.31 | AnduinLothar | Khaos only replaced it for "Cosmos 2" a year and half ago. |
| 01:30.38 | Tain | People who code and don't understand everything they're doing. |
| 01:30.40 | Cide | ckknight|work: you must've misinterpreted everybody you've argued against |
| 01:30.42 | ckknight|work | AnduinLothar: ah, okay then. |
| 01:30.59 | cladhaire | Tain:.. what have I said about them.. other than that they don't understand... |
| 01:31.02 | ckknight|work | Cide: I'm trying to be cordial instead of a complete dick |
| 01:31.13 | Cide | that's good, you're making progress |
| 01:31.14 | Tain | Which really is almost every professional coder I've ever come across. Which might be sad, but that's how it works. |
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| 01:31.24 | ckknight|work | Cide: one can't say the same about you, apparently. |
| 01:31.32 | cladhaire | .... |
| 01:31.32 | Industrial | lol |
| 01:31.39 | cladhaire | Cide has bee 100% cordial this entire conversation? |
| 01:31.42 | cladhaire | what channel are you people in? |
| 01:31.50 | Bouvi | I don't understand why options I set are not holding when I reload the UI or when I log out, etc. If anyone has any idea why shoot me a private message please. |
| 01:31.53 | AnduinLothar | Having an addon named the same as the compilation was a tad confusing when troubleshooting |
| 01:31.53 | Tain | People do not have to understand everything in order to do something. And there's nothing wrong with that. |
| 01:32.26 | cladhaire | Bouvi: You should check to see if there is a CVar that corresponds to the autoloot stuff.. sorry I meant to respond to you earlier. |
| 01:32.27 | cladhaire | Tain: I'm not arguing that. |
| 01:32.30 | Cide | ckknight|work: I invite you to show me where I've been this.. "complete dick" |
| 01:32.35 | Tain | I saw Cide kick a puppy while discussing things. |
| 01:32.36 | nymbia | cladhaire: well, any library that allows bypassing of the guts of the addon writing process is just as guilty as ace at allowing people to skip the learning process, even if ace is the most striking example. attacking ace in that sense attacks ace and sea and dongle in the same breath. |
| 01:32.37 | cladhaire | I'm not pasting YET again, the point of this conversation. |
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| 01:32.46 | cladhaire | nymbia: Again, this isn't about Ace. |
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| 01:33.12 | cladhaire | nymbia: Its about the comparative value of handing someone an addon library to learn how to write addons versus handing them a non-library biased tutorial. |
| 01:33.23 | nymbia | fair enough |
| 01:33.31 | Tain | But that value varies from person to person. It isn't an absolute. |
| 01:33.42 | cladhaire | No, but it was the opinion of two of us |
| 01:33.43 | Neriak | hi all :) |
| 01:33.46 | cladhaire | and we've been eaten fucking alive for it. |
| 01:33.48 | Industrial | 3 |
| 01:33.57 | Tain | Yes but my opinion is valuable to me! |
| 01:34.16 | cladhaire | I challenge you guys to seriously scroll back and read this convesation.. I have not, and Cide has not been offensive or outlandish this entire conversation. |
| 01:34.17 | Cide | Neriak: hi there, welcome :) |
| 01:34.20 | Iriel | If I understand Cide's point (sorry for joining this late), you should start out NOT using a library until you understand enough to appreciate what a library does for you, then you can make an informed decision. |
| 01:34.36 | Industrial | Iriel: agree :P |
| 01:34.38 | Iriel | I can't say I dont agree with that approach. |
| 01:34.40 | Tain | I wouldn't say offensive. Outlandish is another sliding scale. |
| 01:35.08 | Tain | Iriel: *If* your intention is to learn, not to simply achieve a specific end result. |
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| 01:35.12 | ckknight|work | Iriel: my take is that by using the library (and reading the documentation about what it does and everything), that is the best approach in the end |
| 01:35.13 | Barbanus | Iriel, I agree to a point ... I code for a living, but have never written a mod ... why shouldnt I start using a library |
| 01:35.15 | Barbanus | ? |
| 01:35.22 | ZealotOnAStick | cladhaire: Ahah. I understand now. The wiki page is evil! Along with whoever linked it! It's all so clear now. |
| 01:35.24 | Iriel | Tain: how can you achieve a good result without learning enough to get there? |
| 01:35.31 | Tain | Who said good? |
| 01:35.38 | Tain | The vast majority of software in the world is crap. |
| 01:35.45 | Iriel | I guess I have a mental block against crap software |
| 01:35.48 | Industrial | Barbanus: because not starting out with a library doesnt only teach you how to program |
| 01:36.03 | Industrial | Barbanus: it also teaces you about the api that the library conceals |
| 01:36.06 | ckknight|work | Iriel: should one learn ASM before coding C? should one learn Win32 before coding .NET? |
| 01:36.22 | ckknight|work | there is no point in the end if you want to do so |
| 01:36.32 | Barbanus | Industrial, and what does that gain me? |
| 01:36.33 | Iriel | ckknight|work: No, but you should learn how C and trhe standard C libraries work before you grab someone's abstraction layer. |
| 01:36.39 | foxlit | Would you honestly compare ASM to C the same way LUA and ACE? |
| 01:36.40 | Industrial | Barbanus: understanding |
| 01:36.40 | Iriel | I'm not suggesting folks learn LUA bytecode |
| 01:36.43 | Tain | I think it would be nice if it were all good and people did spent time learning and understanding what they were doing, but not everyone wants to and I don't think people should be forced to. |
| 01:36.44 | foxlit | ^ as |
| 01:36.55 | sylvanaar | you guys, most people's primary goal, isnt "learning ot write addons", its something task based, and for all those task based goals libraries are better |
| 01:36.56 | Cide | testing? |
| 01:37.23 | AnduinLothar | erm, usually I write Libs because I want to abstract something... making it efficient is usually secondary. |
| 01:37.27 | Barbanus | Industrial, that I will use ... when? If I understand the library, how its used, what is the point? Sounds like a waste of time, IMO. |
| 01:37.29 | ckknight|work | Iriel: it's all perspective, I guess, since what if someone were to make their own library (say, Boost for C++), should you learn to do what you are trying to do first, painfully, or should you just use that? |
| 01:37.33 | Saroz | indeed sylvanaar, some people actually want to play the game besides coding addons all day |
| 01:37.40 | AnduinLothar | and usually similar the code has been used before |
| 01:37.59 | Iriel | ckknight|work: I maintain you should learn enough about your environment to be able to know the library was the right choice |
| 01:38.07 | sylvanaar | "learning to write addons" is something that few people would say that they are doing at this moment |
| 01:38.08 | Industrial | Barbanus: be my guest and start using the library. I dont care. No, really |
| 01:38.12 | Iriel | That isn't to say "Write your addon standalone, before you ever write an ace one" |
| 01:38.18 | Iriel | That would be a silly position to take |
| 01:38.31 | Iriel | More "learn the naked hello-world, then see the ace version, and decide which road to take" |
| 01:38.37 | Iriel | neither takes a particularly long time |
| 01:38.41 | Tain | If levaring other people's work wasn't common then we wouldn't have things like Rails and Swing and everything else. |
| 01:38.47 | Tain | leveraging that is. |
| 01:38.53 | ckknight|work | why must the world be so gray? |
| 01:39.06 | Saroz | pink tbh |
| 01:39.08 | Tain | The world is run by elephants, that's why. |
| 01:39.09 | ckknight|work | Tain: or any framework. |
| 01:39.14 | Barbanus | sylvanaar, I'm learning, I'm also learning how to write them using Ace2. And its going perfectly well. |
| 01:39.18 | Neriak | lol tain |
| 01:39.19 | sylvanaar | very few people want to write "Hello World", they want to do something and learn in the process |
| 01:39.19 | Iriel | and I'll bet that for most people, starting there will deliver you to your eventual task based goal faster than jumping into al ibrary with no external context, unless your task is trivial or 99% aligned with the library |
| 01:39.57 | AnduinLothar | mmm I learned Lua orig by modifying other addons, and those addons happened to use libs |
| 01:39.58 | Barbanus | sylvanaar, amen. |
| 01:40.05 | Iriel | I think this discussion has been twisted by the pro-framework folks into one in which clad and cide and I are anti-framework |
| 01:40.16 | ckknight|work | Ruby on Rails is evil! You should learn how to code a website without it in just Ruby before considering Rails. |
| 01:40.24 | Cide | I hate frameworks! |
| 01:40.32 | cladhaire | I only hate Sea |
| 01:40.37 | cladhaire | <3 Ace in the face |
| 01:40.41 | End | lol cladhaire |
| 01:40.43 | Cide | ckknight|work: no, but you should taste ruby before using it to develop web pages |
| 01:40.46 | Barbanus | Cide, I can tell. |
| 01:40.57 | cladhaire | Barbanus: You're just being a dick now, calm it down. |
| 01:41.01 | cladhaire | seriously. |
| 01:41.01 | ckknight|work | Cide: I dove headfirst into rails and learned Ruby along the way. |
| 01:41.06 | Cide | Barbanus: apparently you couldn't tell the bitter taste of sarcasm, however |
| 01:41.07 | ckknight|work | what's wrong with that approach? |
| 01:41.24 | Iriel | if it works for you, nothing |
| 01:41.36 | Doonga | sarcasm rarely translates well in text |
| 01:41.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@c-68-63-37-246.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:41.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge subbhawt (i=biggy@65.89.109.213) |
| 01:41.44 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 01:41.47 | Tain | nooooo reallly Doonga? |
| 01:41.48 | Iriel | but for many people that approach leaves them in a very dangerous position the second something goes wrong |
| 01:41.59 | Doonga | Tain: i did say rarely :) |
| 01:42.10 | Industrial | its like learning linux with ubuntu |
| 01:42.17 | Industrial | (oh my did i just pull up a can of worms) |
| 01:42.18 | ckknight|work | Iriel: then they could ask IRC/forums/etc and look up what went wrong? |
| 01:42.19 | End | I think Iriel just hit a very important point :) |
| 01:42.22 | Cide | Doonga: it was directed at those who I knew would get it |
| 01:42.28 | sylvanaar | Iriel: the other approach, they wouldnt ever get tot he position for something to go wrong |
| 01:42.30 | Industrial | s/up/open/ |
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| 01:43.04 | ckknight|work | sylvanaar: too true, they wouldn't have the opportunity to fuck up if you put em in a box |
| 01:43.09 | Iriel | sylvanaar: Nonsense, you're taking the 'do the examples without alibrary' to an extreme again, it's not "do it all without a library' it's "get your feet wet without a library" |
| 01:43.42 | sylvanaar | Iriel: if they are capable of doing it without a library, they can figure out what to do when things go wrong |
| 01:43.47 | ckknight|work | my approach is to dive headfirst into the library schema, and along the way learn how everything works |
| 01:44.00 | cladhaire | And that's great for you |
| 01:44.06 | Tuller | hrm, what are you talking about now? |
| 01:44.13 | Tain | Talking about your mom, Tuller |
| 01:44.14 | Iriel | sylvanaar: if the library was a complete abstraction I would agree with you, but ace isn't. |
| 01:44.14 | cladhaire | but what does a new user gain when you hand them a library tutorial rather than a non-library tutorial? |
| 01:44.20 | Tuller | oooh |
| 01:44.21 | cladhaire | ckknight|work: other than getting you another user? |
| 01:44.27 | sylvanaar | Iriel: the only ones who would be in trouble are those who would not have been able to do it otherwise |
| 01:44.30 | |Shadow| | lol i think i just found the smartest kids in the world |
| 01:44.32 | Tain | It depends what the user's intent is, clad. |
| 01:44.33 | Iriel | it's a set of ASSISTIVE components you leverage to do grunt work, but you write your code against the same API's with the same language |
| 01:44.34 | cladhaire | What does it gain THEM? |
| 01:44.36 | |Shadow| | they actually managed to make the crazy frog thing funny. |
| 01:44.48 | |Shadow| | i mean seriously, its actually funny lol |
| 01:44.49 | Iriel | You HAVE to know the language and you HAVE to know the API's to do anything remotely useful |
| 01:44.50 | |Shadow| | http://youtube.com/watch?v=BgoOihBb78w |
| 01:44.50 | sylvanaar | Iriel: and in their case they still have derived benefit |
| 01:44.51 | ckknight|work | cladhaire: they learn how to build addons with Ace |
| 01:44.59 | cladhaire | Rather than learning how to build addon |
| 01:45.00 | cladhaire | s |
| 01:45.02 | cladhaire | which was their intent |
| 01:45.07 | cladhaire | in the specific case we're discussing. |
| 01:45.19 | Tain | Iriel: The number and varying levels of addon code out there disagrees with that statement. |
| 01:45.32 | ckknight|work | building em with Ace/Sea/Dongle isn't a bad approach, it will help them make their addon do much more in the long run (typically) |
| 01:46.08 | Tain | You can achieve things without knowing what you're really doing. It may not be a good thing per se, but look through random addons and that's how it already is. |
| 01:46.12 | Iriel | I'm not going to argue about any long-run position, that's very likely for many cases. |
| 01:46.13 | Thrae | It should also make them easier to maintain, since they are forced to follow a standard. |
| 01:46.28 | Neriak | cladhaire: I can't program shit in any other language, but with Ace I was able to code a lot of useful stuff. So I'm all for libs, I've learned so much anyway. And I still have to read wikis about WoW API and stuff. I guess without any kind of framework coding for Wow would have pissed me off *sigh* |
| 01:46.34 | Thrae | s/easier to/easier for others to/ |
| 01:46.36 | cladhaire | I point you back to the statement that started this entire conversation: "phreaky: That page was nice though, i'd like one of those for non ace". To which Cide replied, that in his opinion it was better to learn how to write addons without a library rather than with a library, initially. |
| 01:46.42 | Iriel | I just, personally, find that <Jump into abstracted library> <Learn the actual world along the way> <endpoint> |
| 01:46.45 | Iriel | takes a lot longer than |
| 01:46.46 | sylvanaar | "learning to write an addon" is a non-technical goal, and expressed as such does not convey enough meaning to say what the best way to achieve the goal is |
| 01:46.57 | Neriak | cladhaire: So I don't see anything bad in it. |
| 01:46.59 | Iriel | <Learn the basics> <Leverage a library> <Expand skills> <End Point> |
| 01:47.05 | cladhaire | Neriak: You dont', and that's great for you. |
| 01:47.08 | Kaelten | might I point out that this is an ideological difference and therefore is lacking a *best* solution |
| 01:47.08 | cladhaire | BUT HE WAS ASKING TO LEARN. |
| 01:47.12 | Iriel | And produces 'better' developers and 'better' code |
| 01:47.19 | Iriel | in the medium and long run |
| 01:47.26 | cladhaire | Why is it a bad thing to point him at a wow-based tutorial, rather than a library one? |
| 01:47.30 | ckknight|work | Iriel: meh, not for me, not for others as well, but some people might follow that alternate line much better. |
| 01:47.33 | Industrial | iriel wins case closed |
| 01:47.44 | subbhawt | he was pointed to both |
| 01:47.51 | cladhaire | Kaelten: We're not trying to convince anyone of anything. |
| 01:48.02 | ckknight|work | Iriel: but I'd consider myself a good developer, and I jumped headfirst into libraries. |
| 01:48.04 | Cide | subbhawt: right, since the anti-framework activists (har, har) jumped in |
| 01:48.05 | Tain | There's simply a diffrence between wanting to learn, and wanting to accomplish a specific goal. And the arguments don't hold up for both cases. |
| 01:48.07 | Kaelten | ok,I came in on the middle of it so I really don't know :) |
| 01:48.08 | ckknight|work | so it's definitely not true in all cases. |
| 01:48.09 | cladhaire | Kaelten: Just stating our opinions based on our ideologies and being based for it. |
| 01:48.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aeliel (n=sailorea@host81-153-72-178.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:48.22 | Iriel | ckknight|work: I expect you've had broad enough experience you can infer a lot of context |
| 01:48.27 | TheKarn | afaic most people that "want to write a quick addon" to do a small bit of functionality dont want to learn an entire language and as such Ace/Sea/Dongle allows them to get their small but of logic in place and the functionality of the addon they want to write in place with relative ease. those people wishing to make a more powerful addon are normally happy to learn the language and will do so with either approach. |
| 01:48.28 | Neriak | Industrial: fanboi? :P |
| 01:48.35 | cladhaire | Tain: He asked to learn.. not "How can I write this addon in the quickest way" |
| 01:48.37 | Thrae | You could even look at the Library/No-Library debate like C vs C++. What is C++ but a bunch of stuff to try and make coding easier for you compared to C. The ASM isn't really optimized over C, all things being equal. |
| 01:48.41 | sylvanaar | if you are in school, you "learn to do", if ou are anywhere else you "want to do" |
| 01:48.41 | Industrial | Neriak: nah i just agree |
| 01:48.45 | Tain | The statement, "It is always better to learn without using libraries." is a false one. |
| 01:49.00 | Tain | Well we kind of meandered on a bit down the path from that original statement, cladhaire. |
| 01:49.01 | cladhaire | Who said it? |
| 01:49.04 | cladhaire | I'll give you time to scroll back. |
| 01:49.09 | Bouvi | I will say this. I prefer to know why it does things. If I use a library you can be sure I have torn into it to see what it does and why. |
| 01:49.13 | cladhaire | Cause its not there |
| 01:49.15 | cladhaire | and that's the point |
| 01:49.19 | Tain | Let me explain. There is too much. I summed up. |
| 01:49.30 | Thrae | Yet C++ is prefered over C by most institutions for programming. Maybe a quick intro to C, but most will focus on C++ or even (gasp) Java! |
| 01:49.34 | cladhaire | our original statements have been so far twisted at this point, no one has any idea what we've originally said. |
| 01:49.46 | Iriel | But C and C++ isn't the same as wow plain and wow + ace |
| 01:49.54 | Tain | Well, not entirely. The discussion moved on from the original statement a bit. |
| 01:50.02 | Iriel | it's more like C++ and a large C++ library package, versus just C++ |
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| 01:50.10 | Cide | Tain: and with that move a lot of people got some weird ideas that we're against frameworks and such |
| 01:50.12 | cladhaire | Tain: I can categorically say that you have missed the point. One person expressed a valid opinion, then someone else expressed a valid opinion. Then all of _this_ happened. |
| 01:50.21 | ckknight|work | Iriel: or C++ vs. C++ with the STL |
| 01:50.28 | Tain | Yes, we're talking about the _this_ in the mean time. |
| 01:50.36 | Tain | The original statements are boring and uncontroversial. |
| 01:50.40 | sylvanaar | Iriel: ace->wow plain .net->win32 |
| 01:51.00 | Iriel | ckknight|work: I kind of avoided STL since it's an essentially a standard library these days, like lua's bundled functions and wow's API's |
| 01:51.02 | ckknight|work | you can't say Ace or any other framework is any less meaningful because lua.org/Blizz didn't ordain it |
| 01:51.10 | Cide | cladhaire: no, I'm against abstractions of all kinds. I write all my addons without the concept of functions and loops |
| 01:51.21 | cladhaire | Cide: For loops are the devil, I agree with you. |
| 01:51.25 | Tain | Yeah Iriel but there were people who railed against the STL for years. |
| 01:51.34 | Neriak | KAelten: he asked his evil twin |
| 01:51.42 | Kaelten | Neriak: ah |
| 01:51.48 | Cide | honestly though (if that sarcasm wasn't obvious enough), I developed my own framework for suiting my needs |
| 01:51.49 | sylvanaar | ~pedantic |
| 01:51.56 | purl | rumour has it, pedantic is if you're going to be pedantic, be correct!!! (maxim #1) |
| 01:51.56 | Tain | Which isn't to say that any WoW Lua library set is comparible to the STL. But the arguments still occured. |
| 01:51.59 | Industrial | shit a typo |
| 01:52.00 | Industrial | :P |
| 01:52.06 | Cide | and I can say that I knew what I was doing every step in the process |
| 01:52.09 | Thrae | Iriel: C++ is just C with a different approach. It doesn't really have any speed increases over C, yet it retains all of what C is. So I can see a relation between vanilla WoW coding and coding using a Library as well. |
| 01:52.11 | Neriak | ^you lost =) |
| 01:52.21 | Industrial | xD |
| 01:52.28 | Iriel | Thrae: But C++'s differences are at the language level |
| 01:52.43 | Iriel | Thrae: It's a poor analogy for that reason |
| 01:52.45 | Thrae | Iriel: I'm not talking about the binary differences here, I am talking about the philosophical differences, the philosophy of design. |
| 01:53.01 | Industrial | asdf |
| 01:53.09 | Kirkburn | Indeed. |
| 01:53.10 | bleetah | Kirkburn: btw, last night the ABC here ran a story about virtual worlds/games. The video they had of WoW was pretty crappy (off a lappy screen), but the only clearly identifiable mod in use was clearfonts |
| 01:53.23 | bleetah | *ran a story in thei nightly current affairs program |
| 01:53.23 | Kirkburn | Crazy cool :P |
| 01:53.43 | Tuller | Still not absolutely sure what you all are arguing about, but I'm definitely of the opinion in the case of WoW its a good idea to learn the basic structure of how an addon works before anything |
| 01:53.51 | Industrial | Thrae: the difference is that someone that wants to write addons typically is not a programmer with object oriented programming knowledge or background. |
| 01:53.55 | Fisker- | now tell them you want money for showing your addon |
| 01:53.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gnancy (n=gnancysa@adsl-10-41-41.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:54.06 | Fisker- | "You damaged it's name" etc. |
| 01:54.11 | Neriak | ckknight|work: Indeed. |
| 01:54.11 | Fisker- | and all that QQ'ing |
| 01:54.16 | Industrial | that rules out the C++ issue too, because we were talking about suck people and not the highly skilled programmers |
| 01:54.19 | bleetah | hah, the ABC is even more broke than the BBC.. i doubt it'd happen ;) |
| 01:54.22 | Industrial | such* |
| 01:54.25 | Thrae | Iriel: Yes C and C++ are different at the machine code level, however C++ has never been "faster" or "better" then C at doing anything. They are just different design principles. When you compare WoW or WoW + Ace, you are also seeing different design principles at the basic levels. Ace will implement things differently then most people will implement them. It may not be a strong analogy, but I still think it's valid. |
| 01:54.32 | ckknight|work | Industrial: I'm highly skilled and yet use Ace. |
| 01:54.40 | Industrial | ckknight|work: cause you wrote it |
| 01:54.40 | Kirkburn | ckknight|work, no, think of Margaret Thatcher! |
| 01:54.53 | ckknight|work | Industrial: I used Ace 1.x and didn't write that. |
| 01:55.00 | Tain | Yeah well I'm highly skilled and yet don't do any coding right now. So beat that. |
| 01:55.02 | Kirkburn | Fisker-, damn right |
| 01:55.08 | ckknight|work | also, vhaarr is highly skilled, uses Ace, and didn't write it. |
| 01:55.14 | Industrial | ckknight|work: you didnt get it btw. I am saying that if you are not such a programmer and you want to learn addons that it is in my opinion better not to start with a framework. |
| 01:55.16 | ckknight|work | as well as other Ace developers |
| 01:55.29 | Thrae | I wrote TinyTip without Ace, then I switched to Ace because it was easier to maintain. If anyone here is making the argument that using libraries at all makes you a worse coder, then you're off your rocker. |
| 01:55.45 | ckknight|work | Industrial: I understand your opinion, and disagree with it in a cordial manner. |
| 01:55.50 | Industrial | Thrae: stop right there ans read up first |
| 01:55.53 | Iriel | Thrae: I'm going to just have to agree to disagree with the applicability of C/C++ as even close to WoW/WoW+Ace |
| 01:56.08 | bleetah | I agree with industrial. starting with a framework that hides large amounts of nuts and bolts does not help one learn what's going on. it's like getting a computer science degree for using Powerpoint |
| 01:56.09 | Tain | I dunno, there's something to be said for using a framework to learn from the simple fact of having structure. (Not a statement of absolute truth, just my own opinion.) |
| 01:56.17 | Tuller | think of it this way, show them how to do what you do, then show how <framework> simplifies the amount of code needed |
| 01:56.26 | bleetah | (no offence meant to ckknight and other framework authors) |
| 01:56.27 | Iriel | Thrae: I'd make the opposite argument, that blindly NOT using libraries almost certainly leads you to being a worse coder. |
| 01:56.31 | Tem | fuck, I give up on reading the rest of this |
| 01:56.37 | Tem | Tain, I want to beat your f'ing head in |
| 01:56.42 | sylvanaar | ~pedantic |
| 01:56.45 | purl | i heard pedantic is if you're going to be pedantic, be correct!!! (maxim #1) |
| 01:56.45 | ckknight|work | bleetah: the first course you take in a CS degree at my university teaches you Word/PPT/etc. |
| 01:56.47 | Tem | you're twisting the discussion the whole time |
| 01:56.47 | Tain | It's ok, I don't mind. |
| 01:56.48 | ckknight|work | (just irony) |
| 01:56.49 | Iriel | Thrae: However, choosing not to use one that's available is fine 8-) |
| 01:56.59 | bleetah | ckknight: similar, hence I've refused to go to uni |
| 01:57.00 | Tain | No, I'm pointing out a different part of the discussion. |
| 01:57.04 | Tem | Tain, this discussion is *not* about people who just want the means to an end |
| 01:57.10 | bleetah | and practically any other computing course |
| 01:57.14 | ckknight|work | bleetah: I skipped it and every other non-senior CS course. |
| 01:57.16 | Tem | Tain, this is about people who expressly want to LEARN |
| 01:57.24 | bleetah | i'm like 'erm, i learned basic and assembly at the same time, over 20 years ago.. please don't' |
| 01:57.38 | Barbanus | ckknight|work, my first year consisted of C++ |
| 01:57.40 | Tem | ckknight|work, you too |
| 01:57.46 | Tem | you're pulling the same crap as Tain |
| 01:57.49 | Tain | No no |
| 01:57.52 | Thrae | Iriel: Standardization is good. |
| 01:57.53 | Tain | My crap was definitely different. |
| 01:57.57 | bleetah | only one local university in Tasmania, and.. the admissions procedure for adult learners with realm experience.. is gimp |
| 01:57.59 | Tain | Dont' lump me in with him! |
| 01:58.02 | Industrial | lol |
| 01:58.05 | End | Tain is full of crap! |
| 01:58.06 | End | jk |
| 01:58.08 | End | or am I? |
| 01:58.09 | bleetah | *real experience |
| 01:58.13 | Iriel | Thrae: It can be, as long as it's not standardization for the sake of itself |
| 01:58.14 | ckknight|work | your mom's full of crap |
| 01:58.14 | Thrae | Go standardized colabroative development! |
| 01:58.15 | ckknight|work | burn. |
| 01:58.18 | Kirkburn | kirk. |
| 01:58.22 | ckknight|work | Thrae: definitely |
| 01:58.23 | Kirkburn | ZING! |
| 01:58.26 | Tem | this is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT about "I just want to write an addon, and I don't care how it works. I just want it to work" |
| 01:58.41 | Tain | And the statements weren't directed only at people wanting to learn, since when I mentioned that it was shot down as people shouldn't even think that way. |
| 01:58.52 | Tem | phreaky asked "Where do I start so that I can LEARN to write addons?" |
| 01:59.02 | Tain | And it roamed from there. |
| 01:59.04 | cladhaire | Tain: As a personal opinion.. I'm happy enough to let you have yours, why can't you let me have mine? |
| 01:59.10 | Kirkburn | The WoWWiki. :P |
| 01:59.14 | Thrae | Iriel: Which Ace has had a bad history of...some of the old authors had rather staunch principles of standardization which were really just standardization for the point of it. Hence the uneasiness. |
| 01:59.35 | Tuller | Kirkburn: The wiki, + looking at other people's code |
| 01:59.42 | Neriak | how do you define LEARN? whats the difference in using a framework/library or not. at the end all I do is LEARN something *shrug* |
| 01:59.47 | Tain | Differences of opinion are what make the world go 'round. |
| 01:59.49 | Kirkburn | Tuller, yeah, I'd go with that |
| 01:59.51 | bleetah | I suspect it's more a nerve that's been building up since 2.0 got released, and the heavy influc of people wanting to 'learn modding 'coz mod <blah> is now bust'... if i had a copper for everytime I was that... ;) |
| 01:59.51 | ckknight|work | Thrae: you know what'd be nice? if CTRA and oRA worked together to come up with a standard comm protocol |
| 02:00.28 | ckknight|work | standardization ftw and all that. |
| 02:00.28 | cladhaire | Tain: yes, but we don't have to be complete and utter jerks while we're expressing them. I never once in this conversation bashed your personal opinion. |
| 02:00.28 | Tem | and that's all I care to say on it, because I certainly don't have the patience to sit here and read the dribble that's being spewing in here |
| 02:00.29 | cladhaire | I was not afforded the same luxury. |
| 02:00.29 | Kirkburn | That was once tried on WoWWiki, ckknight |
| 02:00.29 | foxlit | I thought oRA was binary compatible? |
| 02:00.29 | Bouvi | I like pie... |
| 02:00.30 | Kirkburn | (before the comm channel changes) |
| 02:00.30 | Tain | But you have the patience to comment on it, Tem. |
| 02:00.30 | Tem | ckknight|work, if you want to go drama fishing, I heard efnet is a good place |
| 02:00.34 | foxlit | At least that's what I keep telling people when I claim I parse CT_RA messages. |
| 02:00.51 | ckknight|work | Kirkburn: slightly different topic |
| 02:00.56 | Cide | yeah, I'm not even going to comment on that ckknight|work |
| 02:01.00 | Kirkburn | Yeah, fair enough :P |
| 02:01.04 | Tem | Tain, I had to say something because it was driving me nuts while reading the log. No offense to anyone |
| 02:01.10 | Tuller | I just call CTRA the standard and leave it at that |
| 02:01.15 | ckknight|work | Cide: but I want a comment |
| 02:01.24 | Kirkburn | Tuller, your mom's the standard! ^^ |
| 02:01.26 | Cide | ckknight|work: here's your comment; shut up |
| 02:01.35 | Tuller | Kirkburn: nuh uh! |
| 02:01.40 | ckknight|work | I'll take that as your official comment on the matter, Cide |
| 02:01.41 | Kirkburn | yuh huh! |
| 02:01.51 | Cide | ckknight|work: cool. |
| 02:01.55 | Industrial | "official" hahaha. |
| 02:02.02 | Thrae | ckknight|work: I don't think it would be too hard to make a non-Ace CTComm or RaidComm or whatever library, but it takes an amicable agreement between both parties. It's definately not far to push the party with the more popular addon to do most of the work. |
| 02:02.07 | Tain | I dunno, I don't think I was a jerk. My point of view was entirely that not everyone has the same intentions when coding an addon, and I think other people try to force their intentions on them. |
| 02:02.10 | Bouvi | I like ALOT of pie... |
| 02:02.11 | Cide | with personal attacks out of the way - let's not go there |
| 02:02.25 | bleetah | Cide: is that the same comment as to guilds who roll their own 'ctra' compatible mods and end up with players saying they never need CTRaid? |
| 02:02.29 | ckknight|work | Thrae: we don't need a library, just a protocol |
| 02:02.41 | Cide | Bleeter: huh? |
| 02:02.44 | Tain | I think protocol went out the window a while ago. |
| 02:02.45 | cladhaire | Tain: And we never said we wre, and that's where you missed the point and kept on bashing. |
| 02:02.53 | End | didn't Cide make it for -his- guild back in the day? |
| 02:02.56 | Thrae | ckknight|work: We'd have to concede that the party with the popular addon, the one who isn't as interested, and give them the most room and compromise. Treat them as nice as possible. |
| 02:02.59 | cladhaire | We were never talking about peopel who just want" to write an addon to meet a specific end. |
| 02:03.11 | Cide | End: that was one of the reasons, yes |
| 02:03.17 | bleetah | if I had a copper for every inbound guildie saying they don't need ctraid 'coz they have something from <hand built by guild foo> and don't understand the potential for conflicting code and stuff, I'd.. be richer |
| 02:03.24 | Kirkburn | Can I say, I would really like to see people work together more ... the UI community feels like it's splitting into camps |
| 02:03.26 | ckknight|work | Thrae: that'd be like saying we should just let IE keep using deprecated protocols and not push for HTML standardization. |
| 02:03.32 | Kirkburn | And once you're in a camp, you're stuck |
| 02:03.33 | Tain | I disagree with your opinion that I was bashing. |
| 02:03.49 | Thrae | ckknight|work: Well, a protocol would be easier to maintain within a Library, as otherwise you'd have to make sure multiple addons always follow the standard. |
| 02:03.56 | cladhaire | And why did it need bashing? |
| 02:03.56 | ZealotOnAStick | Kirkburn: seconded. |
| 02:03.57 | Tuller | SGI! |
| 02:03.57 | Tain | However, when I stated my view it was directly disputed that people shouldn't be coding without learning, and I still disagree with that. |
| 02:04.13 | Cide | bleetah: I maintain CTRA so that people that want it can use it - those who don't want to are free to use whatever addon they want :) |
| 02:04.33 | ckknight|work | Thrae: true, but we have the AceOptions data table protocol, which doesn't use a standard library between the libraries/addons that use it. |
| 02:04.56 | Kirkburn | Segregating is how wars start. |
| 02:05.13 | Kirkburn | You start getting suspicious and paranoid, and suddenly everyone hates each other. |
| 02:05.16 | Thrae | ckknight|work: No no, I'm not saying let them do whatever they want. I'm saying, you have to treat their views with respect because they hold more weight with the users. In IE vs open source, the open source community isn't going to get anyway saying "FU, we'll do what we want" to Microsoft. Even if they start getting people to adapt their standards, it would be far, far faster to compromise and work together. |
| 02:05.27 | Tain | Library uses to the back of the bus! |
| 02:05.36 | Cide | I agree with Thrae |
| 02:05.52 | bleetah | ok, lemme try another track... I presume the CTRaid API is open, and that there are other mods out there using it. Now, of course, that's bound to bring up compatibility problems at least somewhere along the way. So your response to people (non-authors) bringing you compatibility problems would be? (I'm presuming 'shut up' ;-) |
| 02:05.53 | Tuller | Kirkburn: stop plotting against me! |
| 02:06.00 | Mikma | anyone can convert one .blp to .tga for me? |
| 02:06.02 | ckknight|work | so wouldn't it be good to work together on a common protocol, Thrae? |
| 02:06.07 | ckknight|work | working together is important |
| 02:06.11 | Industrial | Thrae: so you code addons to be famous? |
| 02:06.13 | ckknight|work | not imposing a standard on another party. |
| 02:06.16 | Cide | CTRA already has a protocol that has remained largely backwards compatible since release, so I don't see a reason to change it |
| 02:06.17 | Industrial | Thrae: to get many people to use them? |
| 02:06.21 | Kirkburn | Tuller, I use Bagnon =) How could I plot against you!? |
| 02:06.24 | Industrial | Thrae: sorry but I dont like that. |
| 02:06.40 | Tuller | Kirkburn: comment on paranoid :P |
| 02:06.43 | *** part/#wowi-lounge kagaro (n=kagaro@cpe-069-134-153-219.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:06.50 | Barbanus | Thrae, I completely agree with "it would be far, far faster to compromise and work together" |
| 02:06.54 | Thrae | However, there is, of course, only so much abuse one can take from the popular. Especially because having a popular addon can instill a good amount of ego boost. Whether or not that ego boost gets too big is up to the individual. I'm just stating fact here, not trying to degredate any individual. |
| 02:06.57 | Industrial | you shouldnt give 2 shits about WHO any HOWMANY use your addon. you should only be happy with it |
| 02:07.15 | bleetah | Cide: I'm trying to find a compelling arguement I can force down this particular guildie's throat so they ditch whatever they're using, take up CTRaid, and thus cut down my 'support' duties |
| 02:07.15 | Kirkburn | However, I am plotting against Tul-I mean uh ... Tullalballo |
| 02:07.27 | Cide | bleetah: that's up to you :) |
| 02:07.44 | bleetah | gah.. i'll just mis-quote you :P |
| 02:07.53 | Thrae | Industrial: I code addons to please people, yes. Pleasing people makes me feel good. |
| 02:07.57 | Cide | however, feel free to tell him that santa won't be happy unless he does |
| 02:08.08 | Kirkburn | Allow people to have opinions. It's a free country, don't force them down their throats. |
| 02:08.20 | Thrae | Industrial: However, I don't see how that has anything to do with our discussion. |
| 02:08.23 | Kirkburn | (free world, one day, perhaps) |
| 02:08.51 | beerke | I don't see the problem of a common protocol for raid overview mods. Except where one person tries to defend his mod from going down in popularity or due to personal reasonings like not liking the other side which he has to cooperate with. |
| 02:09.03 | Industrial | Thrae: "even id they start getting people to adapt to their standards" |
| 02:09.06 | Barbanus | Kirkburn, opinions and options :) |
| 02:09.15 | Industrial | Thrae: you dont get people to adapt t your standards |
| 02:09.25 | Industrial | you just make whay you think is good and people will use it |
| 02:09.25 | Neriak | 7msg purl Industrial is teh sucks! |
| 02:09.31 | Industrial | you dont want to win people away |
| 02:09.35 | Tuller | well, uhh, I like the clickframe standard |
| 02:09.43 | Industrial | thats corporate bullshit. this is a GAME and this is our HOBBY |
| 02:09.50 | Tuller | given it requires all of three lines of code for me to implement |
| 02:09.52 | Bouvi | Later all I have been up since 4:30 I am beat. |
| 02:09.53 | Tain | My addon brings all the boys to the yard |
| 02:10.10 | TheKarn | and they're like. ... its better then Thrae's? |
| 02:10.11 | Thrae | Industrial: What's wrong with being cooperative? |
| 02:10.11 | Kaelten | ~whaleslap Tain |
| 02:10.16 | purl | ACTION beats Tain upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 02:10.33 | Tain | What I did was whack but you don't get a brother back like that |
| 02:10.39 | Industrial | Thrae: nothing. its wrong to try to get as many people as you can to use your addon and then feel good |
| 02:10.40 | Kirkburn | Look, I've been a part of this community for about a year, I've used Cosmos, Ace, CTRA, loads of different addons, been in many IRC channels - and over that whole time, I cannot see a reason for the animosity between cetain people. Yes, you have different ways of approaching addons. BUT THEY'RE ADDONS. FOR A GAME! |
| 02:10.55 | Industrial | Kirkburn: exactly |
| 02:10.58 | Kirkburn | A *game*, people. |
| 02:11.05 | End | nonsense! |
| 02:11.11 | End | WoW is serious business! |
| 02:11.20 | ckknight|work | Kirkburn: you mean I'm not really a hot female blood elf in real life? |
| 02:11.23 | ag` | But it's a serious game! We like... get epics! |
| 02:11.26 | Kirkburn | Nah, you are. |
| 02:11.28 | ckknight|work | my world is shattered :-( |
| 02:11.31 | nymbia | no, Kirkburn. i must force everyone to do things the same as me. |
| 02:11.47 | Thrae | Industrial: Why would I denegrate the other similiar addons? Those addons have authors too. I'd feel bad for them. |
| 02:11.59 | Industrial | Thrae: you said so. |
| 02:12.01 | Kirkburn | ^^ |
| 02:12.05 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cide (n=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 02:12.17 | ckknight|work | Industrial: what if you feel good by getting people to use your addons? |
| 02:12.19 | Tuller | lets just make fun of people who post comments about my addons :) |
| 02:12.31 | Industrial | ckknight|work: i think thats wrong |
| 02:12.36 | ckknight|work | yes, let's make fun of Tuller's users; |
| 02:12.43 | Kirkburn | Yeah, but you can't dictate how a man should feel |
| 02:12.59 | ckknight|work | Industrial: I don't see how it's necessarily wrong... |
| 02:13.01 | Thrae | Industrial: "I code addons to please people, yes. Pleasing people makes me feel good." |
| 02:13.07 | Tain | Before you judge someone you should walk a mile in their shoes. |
| 02:13.13 | End | good idea |
| 02:13.16 | Tain | Because then you're a mile away AND you have their shoes. |
| 02:13.16 | Neriak | it makes my e-peen grow, Industrial ;) |
| 02:13.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge drc|away (n=drc@p54858C79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:13.17 | Thrae | Industrial: Where in that sentance can you infer I want to "compete" with other addons? |
| 02:13.19 | End | then I'll have their shoes and I |
| 02:13.20 | End | dammit |
| 02:13.27 | Kirkburn | And you can take it further and say "the more people I please, the better the pleasing" |
| 02:13.30 | Neriak | there's nothing wrong about e-peens, really |
| 02:14.10 | ckknight|work | Neriak: my e-peen level is 42 right now. |
| 02:14.19 | Neriak | fu :P |
| 02:14.33 | bleetah | omg, the question! |
| 02:14.40 | End | no |
| 02:14.43 | bleetah | ;what is ckknight|work's e-peen level' |
| 02:14.43 | End | that's the answer |
| 02:14.44 | Kirkburn | FuPeen, the tracker for Peens! |
| 02:14.46 | Industrial | well look at the CTRA & oRA cooperation thing |
| 02:14.49 | End | we don't know what the question is |
| 02:14.51 | Industrial | thats the result of epeening |
| 02:14.53 | Neriak | lol Kirkburn |
| 02:14.57 | Industrial | and i think its wrong |
| 02:14.58 | bleetah | I'm saying, I just found the question! |
| 02:15.09 | End | heh |
| 02:15.34 | Kirkburn | Someone should make a film about this: |
| 02:15.37 | foxlit | My glorious abuse of API mechanism and an incomplete at best optimization algorithm has earned me 110 downloads :P |
| 02:15.42 | Kirkburn | "A community ... divided" |
| 02:15.42 | bleetah | gotta admit, it's better than 'whatdoyougetifyoumultplysixbynine |
| 02:16.24 | Tain | I'll take The Rapists for $200 Alex! |
| 02:16.25 | foxlit | It's curious to note that I couldn't really care -- it was a relatively fun piece of code. |
| 02:16.33 | End | foxlit: I'm curious now |
| 02:16.36 | Thrae | Industrial: So you think because CTRA is more popular, oRA should just adapt its standard instead of compromise? The reason there are two separate addons is not because they wish to compete, it's because of different design principles. oRA is module-based and focused zealotly on performance, while CTRA is focused on power and options all-in-one. |
| 02:16.36 | End | foxlit: linky? |
| 02:16.54 | foxlit | http://wow.curse-gaming.com/en/files/details/5573/pvpshuffle/ |
| 02:17.30 | Industrial | Thrae: no you are not getting it. I am saying that because of epeening as you call it between authors (sorry for those being in here right now) they wont work together and it wont benefit anyone |
| 02:17.32 | sylvanaar | honestly making one work with the other doesnt serve the interests of either developere |
| 02:17.42 | End | foxlit: hmm neat idea |
| 02:17.54 | Industrial | Thrae: and thus making addons for the purpose of getting alot of users results in thses silly games |
| 02:17.58 | Barbanus | haha nice foxlit |
| 02:18.01 | Industrial | Thrae: so its WRONG :) |
| 02:18.04 | Barbanus | thats interesting :P |
| 02:18.22 | Barbanus | I prefer a proximity marker on my raid windows, but thats still interesting |
| 02:18.25 | Tuller | all my stuff was written because I hated anything that currently existed, or did not have feature <x> |
| 02:18.37 | Kaelten | Industrial: well I do get a little thrill when someone tells me they love my addons, and I love to see that people use em, its nice. But at the same time I'm not against coloborating or helping people, so its not that making addons for other people to use is wrong? |
| 02:18.43 | ckknight|work | Industrial: and then compounding on that some people have websites devoted to their addons or addon packs that have advertising on them to specifically make them money |
| 02:18.58 | ckknight|work | whether you think that's wrong is a matter of opinion, though |
| 02:19.08 | foxlit | I need a class interaction filter for that one |
| 02:19.08 | Industrial | it is |
| 02:19.10 | ckknight|work | but it can change motivations |
| 02:19.11 | sylvanaar | compatibility is an end user issue |
| 02:19.24 | sylvanaar | unless you want more users |
| 02:19.24 | Thrae | Industrial: I personally never said "epeen". I'll concede that debate because it's based on your view from the actions of those involved. And I think I've already made it clear that I don't think that is going on as much as you think it is. |
| 02:19.41 | Thrae | Industrial: However, I WOULD like to know why you think --I-- am trying to flex my ego... |
| 02:19.55 | sylvanaar | in which case you add compatibility to get users from somewhere else |
| 02:19.57 | Industrial | Thrae: im speaking in general |
| 02:20.37 | Thrae | 21:28 < Thrae> Industrial: Why would I denegrate the other similiar addons? Those addons have authors too. I'd feel bad for them. |
| 02:20.41 | Thrae | 21:28 < Industrial> Thrae: you said so. |
| 02:20.58 | Thrae | Industrial: That seemed like to me that you were talking about me in particular. |
| 02:21.13 | Industrial | Thrae: in your statement about open source vs microsoft |
| 02:21.21 | Industrial | Thrae: about winning users |
| 02:21.22 | Tain | And he said your mom wears Microsoft combat boots |
| 02:21.29 | Industrial | Thrae: im basing everything i say on that |
| 02:21.36 | ckknight|work | I got a mac, it's really shiny. |
| 02:21.50 | Tuller | sylvanaar: in the case of CTRA amd oRA, they HAD to use CTRA's protocols, else very few could get any enjoyment out of the addons |
| 02:22.05 | Thrae | Industrial: But were you claiming I compete with other addons? |
| 02:22.07 | sylvanaar | compatibility is an end user issue |
| 02:22.10 | sylvanaar | unless you want more users |
| 02:22.22 | Industrial | Thrae: god. not you specifically. |
| 02:22.28 | Neriak | ckknight|work: it ain't shiny it's just glossy :P |
| 02:23.01 | Thrae | Industrial: OK. The timing of the two statements on my screen caused the misunderstanding. I wasn't angry, I am just always curious about what people think of me. |
| 02:23.01 | Tuller | sylvanaar: I'd consider compatiblity there more of "making the addon work" |
| 02:23.14 | Industrial | ok |
| 02:23.47 | Tain | I think you're special, Thrae |
| 02:24.10 | Thrae | Tain: That's what my middle school principal said too! |
| 02:24.13 | ckknight|work | Neriak: actually I got the matte screen, not the glossy screen |
| 02:24.21 | bleetah | Thrae: I don't think. At all. Ever. Please don't take my lack of thoughts about you personally. |
| 02:24.29 | sylvanaar | i remember trying to write an addon which would provide an abstract compatibility point between addons. So that they could work together. Nobody was interested. |
| 02:24.40 | Tain | Working together isn't fun. |
| 02:25.04 | Thrae | bleetah: Your lack of opinion on me makes me think you don't like me! :( Now I'm going to go eat lots of ice cream. |
| 02:25.18 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@adsl-234-109-232.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:25.19 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Gagorian (n=k@GMMMCCXLVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 02:25.32 | ckknight|work | lol, Thrae |
| 02:25.33 | ckknight|work | fatty |
| 02:25.47 | nymbia | aw, now i want ice cream. |
| 02:25.47 | ckknight|work | sylvanaar: which addon? |
| 02:25.56 | Thrae | Mmmm, cookie dough! |
| 02:26.04 | Tuller | ckknight|work: Most comments are nice, but every now and then you get one that makes you wonder, "What in the world is with this guy?," or just laugh. For instance, I had a comment about a month ago, where a guy dropped at least 4 fbombs in a single sentence. |
| 02:26.06 | sylvanaar | thats was the point of Interview |
| 02:26.09 | Thrae | Cookies should never be baked. Just give me the dough! |
| 02:26.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=kaso@host81-159-133-178.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 02:26.41 | ckknight|work | Tuller: I'm confused |
| 02:26.58 | ckknight|work | sylvanaar: oh, right, yea, *shrug* |
| 02:27.06 | sylvanaar | ckknight|work: haha |
| 02:27.08 | Tuller | ckknight|work: ckknight|work:yes, let's make fun of Tuller's users; |
| 02:27.12 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-58-241-33.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 02:27.31 | ckknight|work | Tuller: ah. |
| 02:27.54 | Thrae | I hear Tuller's users are Warriors who try to tank with the Ice Barbed Spear! |
| 02:28.08 | nymbia | Tuller: your users smell funny. |
| 02:29.05 | Tuller | the level of quality varies between websites, and the popularity of a given addon, but I think curse is midway between the official general forums and interface forums |
| 02:29.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jaidyn_ (n=chatzill@S01060011118f21b5.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:29.35 | Tuller | segway complete. |
| 02:29.58 | End | I tend to get the worst quality comments from ui.worldofwar |
| 02:30.01 | Tain | I think I want to learn to play the bagpipes |
| 02:30.33 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Jaidyn_ (n=chatzill@S01060011118f21b5.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:31.14 | Tuller | A cookie for anyone who can give me the thoughtprocess for each individual when setting up any given addon. |
| 02:31.58 | nymbia | Tuller: unzip to desktop. start wow. log in. wonder why it isnt working. post on comments. |
| 02:32.14 | End | I got better! |
| 02:32.18 | End | post on comments. |
| 02:32.22 | Doonga | nymbia: nah, they don't even unzip it |
| 02:32.27 | ckknight|work | Tuller: "I want it to work without configuring at all, if I have to configure, I want to use a system I'm familiar with that's intuitive" |
| 02:32.28 | nymbia | lol |
| 02:32.29 | End | there, one step right there |
| 02:33.21 | [Wobin] | "Damnit, I want it to 'Just Work'" |
| 02:33.24 | Tuller | ckknight|work: that's why I setup all my addons to my defaults most of the time :) |
| 02:33.28 | [Wobin] | Is really it |
| 02:33.44 | ckknight|work | Tuller: yep. |
| 02:33.51 | [Wobin] | Basically: "If it takes more than 5 seconds to configure, it's not worth my time" |
| 02:34.46 | Tuller | I still wonder how discord got popular, but I decided its because no one actually uses discord, they use someone's package which was designed with discord. |
| 02:34.58 | Tuller | aka, those people with 3+ hour setup times |
| 02:35.55 | [Wobin] | prepackaged sets |
| 02:36.14 | Tuller | Lets call that the highest level of abstraction :) |
| 02:36.15 | [Wobin] | well, generally for the first time (mostly startup) addon users, they want it to work and work instantly |
| 02:36.22 | Tain | Now now, Discord allowed people to do things that no other addons did. |
| 02:36.33 | [Wobin] | It's only once they get interested in stuff that they spend their time setting up |
| 02:37.02 | Tain | You can't downplay the importance of things like Discord and Cosmos in the history of WoW addon development. |
| 02:37.34 | Tuller | Tain: In the case of Unitframes, yes. In the case of action bars, no. Discord did everything with a GUI for that. |
| 02:37.41 | Antiar1 | Discord and Cosmos were tremendous as groundbreakers. |
| 02:37.50 | seebs | Woah, you guys are still doing this? |
| 02:37.57 | nymbia | seebs: no ;) |
| 02:38.11 | Tain | seebs: I'm still doing your mom |
| 02:38.13 | [Wobin] | nah, not so much with the bashing this time I think =P |
| 02:38.21 | [Wobin] | Okay, maybe some bashing |
| 02:38.23 | nymbia | anyway, is he even working on a 2.0 compatible version? |
| 02:38.33 | Tuller | nymbia: yes |
| 02:38.34 | ckknight|work | nymbia: supposedly coming out when TBC ships |
| 02:39.01 | Tuller | a cookie for someone who designs an in game interface design kit to rival it |
| 02:39.15 | Tain | Cookies are easier to make. |
| 02:39.22 | pastamancer | just one cookie? |
| 02:39.23 | nymbia | haha |
| 02:39.24 | Tain | I'll just bypass the whole thing and make some. |
| 02:39.37 | ckknight|work | Tuller: the Ace rival to Discord: Accord |
| 02:39.44 | nymbia | rofl |
| 02:39.46 | ckknight|work | bum dum dum! |
| 02:39.55 | nymbia | the honda ui! |
| 02:39.56 | ckknight|work | but no one cares enough in our community |
| 02:40.23 | Tain | Accord uses the Acsea library running as part of Cosmace. |
| 02:40.33 | [Wobin] | hehe |
| 02:40.53 | nymbia | ssh dont tell 'em the plan! ;) |
| 02:41.02 | Tuller | I'm kind of struggling to think of what Cosmos actually brought with it. I can only assume mainstream addon usage. |
| 02:41.03 | Kaelten | lol |
| 02:41.13 | Tuller | and don't you guys have surf or something to be sea? :) |
| 02:41.20 | Tuller | that might have been a long time ago though |
| 02:41.30 | Tain | Tuller: Cosmos was really the proof of concept for WoW addons. |
| 02:41.37 | [Wobin] | Tuller: I'd say more a 'package' that made addons more available |
| 02:41.42 | [Wobin] | or understandable |
| 02:41.46 | [Wobin] | or applicable |
| 02:41.51 | nymbia | cosmos had some pretty cool capabilities, even way back in the day. |
| 02:42.08 | nymbia | stuff that we take for granted now |
| 02:42.14 | ckknight|work | true |
| 02:42.15 | Doonga | for me it showed what the default ui lacked |
| 02:42.16 | Tain | When WoW launched there was CosmosUI, and there was the default UI. That was it. |
| 02:42.19 | ckknight|work | I used Cosmos for a while |
| 02:42.23 | Neuro_Medivh | actually |
| 02:42.29 | Neuro_Medivh | CTMod was available on Launch |
| 02:42.34 | [Wobin] | For people who never knew what an addon was, and who wanted a change, Cosmos was a good package to get going |
| 02:42.48 | ZealotOnAStick | CT, Gypsy . . . |
| 02:42.54 | ZealotOnAStick | Was BibMod out in beta? |
| 02:42.56 | [Wobin] | I think I started with Gypsy |
| 02:43.05 | nymbia | ZealotOnAStick: dont think so, no. |
| 02:43.06 | Tuller | Gypsy is still the prettiest |
| 02:43.09 | Antiarc | I started with Cosmos in beta. |
| 02:43.09 | Neuro_Medivh | Cosmos was the first Metamod though |
| 02:43.33 | Tain | I'm probably still thinking of Cosmos from beta as far as being the fist to really show how much you can do |
| 02:43.35 | [Wobin] | Tuller: Sam won't like that =P |
| 02:43.37 | ag` | I am the first metauser |
| 02:44.13 | Tuller | [Wobin]: well, I love how the GUI for setting up bars looks :) |
| 02:44.24 | Neuro_Medivh | beta Cosmos became a victim of it's own popularity. It had so many features that it became harder and harder to upgrade on each Beta patch |
| 02:44.48 | Neriak | I've been using Cosmos till the first patchday, after that I decided to put together my own UI. Whole Cosmos was broken that day. |
| 02:44.59 | [Wobin] | >< |
| 02:45.08 | [Wobin] | I'd hate to program for the beta |
| 02:45.32 | [Wobin] | especially if the changes directly affect your code each patch |
| 02:45.33 | Neuro_Medivh | wtf, Saddam's execution is today? |
| 02:45.43 | [Wobin] | happy new year? |
| 02:45.44 | nymbia | yeah |
| 02:45.58 | Neuro_Medivh | wow... I'm so used to American courts where it takes 10 years |
| 02:46.03 | Kirkburn | Neuro_Medivh, er, wow |
| 02:46.07 | Kirkburn | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6218245.stm |
| 02:46.11 | Tain | Yeah they want you to believe it is. |
| 02:46.19 | Tain | He'll be running a 7-11 next week. |
| 02:46.27 | Doonga | 30 days from sentence there from what I read |
| 02:46.35 | Tuller | I ended up "educating" my friends to not use Cosmos. Aka, the "Why are you using 40 addons when you really only use addonX?" |
| 02:46.36 | ckknight|work | I was told a spring hanging... |
| 02:46.57 | ckknight|work | Tuller: hehe |
| 02:46.59 | Tuller | so is the execution a day early or a day late? |
| 02:47.49 | [Wobin] | a premature hanging? |
| 02:47.59 | Kirkburn | "Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death by an Iraqi court on 5 November" |
| 02:48.14 | nymbia | i guess there's still another trial going on but they're just gonna hang him for what he's already been convicted of |
| 02:48.23 | [Wobin] | hehe |
| 02:48.30 | [Wobin] | and we'll work out the rest of the charges later =P |
| 02:48.31 | Neuro_Medivh | what are they gonna do, execute him twice? |
| 02:48.38 | nymbia | yes |
| 02:48.49 | [Wobin] | Weekend at Bernies style? |
| 02:49.07 | Neuro_Medivh | Saddam says, "Can we hurry this up? I have another hanging to go to at 3pm" |
| 02:49.25 | Neuro_Medivh | "They said you was hung?" And they were right!" |
| 02:49.32 | Tain | haha |
| 02:49.35 | nymbia | rofl |
| 02:49.39 | Tain | Awesome movie. |
| 02:49.44 | Neuro_Medivh | yes it is |
| 02:50.07 | Kirkburn | I'm off to bed, g'night! |
| 02:50.24 | Neuro_Medivh | voted 6th funniest movie of all time |
| 02:51.03 | Neuro_Medivh | which is a shame, cause I think it's funnier than at least 3 of the top 5 they have listed |
| 02:51.04 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 02:52.18 | Neuro_Medivh | ah, and I see Canada is falling apart |
| 02:53.31 | Tuller | grr, now I need to remember what I was coding again |
| 02:54.27 | Tuller | anyway to sum up the early portion, about the time the first ace happened there was a fairly large argument about libraries between the ace crowd and the autobar author |
| 02:54.45 | Tuller | so, we're back there again, sortof :) |
| 02:55.06 | [Wobin] | autobar? |
| 02:55.10 | Thrae | Tuller: for 1,100000 do foo={}; end |
| 02:55.12 | End | Saien |
| 02:55.31 | [Wobin] | ah |
| 02:55.32 | [Wobin] | well |
| 02:55.33 | [Wobin] | Saien |
| 02:55.41 | End | ~emulate Saien |
| 02:55.43 | purl | Slash commands are ameturish. |
| 02:56.00 | ckknight|work | ~literal emulate Saien |
| 02:56.01 | purl | "emulate saien" is "<reply>Slash commands are ameturish.||<reply>I could have helped you, but I won't.||<reply>You are of course, wrong, and I invite you to prove it to yourself.||<reply>This is a stunningly stupid question to direct at me.||<reply>Your question is not very descriptive, helpful, or useful in any manner.||<reply>Why do I care? Why are you posting ... |
| 02:56.20 | ckknight|work | those are all real quotes |
| 02:56.31 | Tuller | I remember most of them :) |
| 02:56.38 | End | yeah I doo too |
| 02:56.43 | End | er, do |
| 02:56.51 | End | although I might doo as well |
| 02:56.54 | nymbia | lol |
| 02:57.00 | bleetah | sounds like PacoPaco from the gaim project |
| 02:58.59 | bleetah | sounds to me more, tho, like some insane crazy person should sit down, audit the major mods, decide what's 'common' about them, then write up a common library proposal |
| 02:59.25 | Tuller | bleetah: slash commands, variables, events |
| 02:59.28 | bleetah | even I'm not that insane, tho |
| 02:59.42 | Tuller | localization, to an extent |
| 03:00.13 | bleetah | localisation |
| 03:00.13 | bleetah | the tricky bit would have people agree on even an API, let alone code |
| 03:00.13 | Tuller | don't forget style |
| 03:00.25 | MentalPower|DVD | lets not have this conversation again, shall we? |
| 03:00.27 | Tuller | (I want to use OO!) |
| 03:00.32 | bleetah | Dos or Unix text files? |
| 03:00.33 | MentalPower|DVD | the last few times its been of no use |
| 03:00.44 | bleetah | MentalPower|DVD: I'm being silly |
| 03:00.47 | Tuller | MentalPower|DVD: you're one of the auctioneer people, right? :) |
| 03:00.55 | MentalPower|DVD | ya |
| 03:01.02 | Tuller | can I yell at you about enhtooltip? :) |
| 03:01.05 | bleetah | no he's not |
| 03:01.18 | bleetah | (just trying to cover your butt, mp, just in case ;-) |
| 03:01.21 | MentalPower|DVD | sure, but I won't guarantee that I'll listen :P |
| 03:01.30 | MentalPower|DVD | j/k |
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| 03:01.42 | MentalPower|DVD | go ahead |
| 03:02.05 | Tuller | oh, its just that its usually the source of tooltip issues with bagnon :) |
| 03:02.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge NotThatGuy (n=rumors@69.37.30.243) |
| 03:02.48 | MentalPower|DVD | ie, http://auctioneeraddon.com/scm/ticket/1295 |
| 03:03.11 | Tuller | yes |
| 03:04.04 | bleetah | just glancing, mp, that looks like the old LL bug that telo fixed.. is it? |
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| 03:04.31 | Tuller | do yall hook SetHyperlink yet? |
| 03:05.32 | MentalPower|DVD | nop |
| 03:05.45 | nymbia | yay for 2.0.3! OnTooltipSetItem |
| 03:06.03 | MentalPower|DVD | bleetah: in all honesty I haven't the slightest clue what that bug is |
| 03:06.36 | bleetah | :( |
| 03:07.11 | bleetah | not at your inability to fix, at the (inferred) obscurity |
| 03:10.30 | MentalPower|DVD | Tuller: you work with BagOn? |
| 03:10.48 | Tuller | what in the world is bagon? |
| 03:11.03 | Tuller | apparently a pokemon |
| 03:11.09 | MentalPower|DVD | ~lart me |
| 03:11.19 | MentalPower|DVD | Tuller: you work with Bagnon? |
| 03:11.22 | Tuller | yes :) |
| 03:11.43 | MentalPower|DVD | do you guys mess with the EnhTooltip.linecount var? |
| 03:12.09 | Tuller | there's nothing in my code that mentions EnhTooltip |
| 03:12.30 | Tuller | so, hopefully not :) |
| 03:13.10 | Tuller | hrm, moreinterstingly, why in the world am I hooking containerframeitembutton_onenter |
| 03:13.23 | MentalPower|DVD | ok, np. sorry if it sounded accusing |
| 03:15.24 | Neuro_Medivh | Tuller, does Bongos have a way to control the cast bar now? |
| 03:15.29 | Tuller | the proper code I should be using is: |
| 03:15.30 | Tuller | local Blizz_GameTooltip_SetBagItem = GameTooltip.SetBagItem; |
| 03:15.32 | Tuller | GameTooltip.SetBagItem = function(self, bag, slot) |
| 03:15.33 | Tuller | --stuff |
| 03:15.35 | bleetah | Tuller: I was going to ask, but I'm still fairly new to addons .. so thought it'd be a dumb question ;-) |
| 03:15.36 | Tuller | GameTooltip:Show() |
| 03:15.37 | Tuller | end |
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| 03:15.38 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 03:15.55 | Tuller | bleetah: hrm? |
| 03:16.00 | Tuller | Neuro_Medivh: in what way? |
| 03:16.16 | Tuller | Neuro_Medivh: bongos can move it and scale it, but opacity is broken right now |
| 03:16.17 | bleetah | "why in the world am I hooking containerframeitembutton_onenter" ;) |
| 03:16.25 | Tuller | bleetah: oh :) |
| 03:16.31 | Neuro_Medivh | well, keep in mind I haven't looked at Bongos since about the 16th, but the last time I checked Bongos had no way to disable it's castbar |
| 03:16.49 | Tuller | Neuro_Medivh: there's no way to hide it in game, you have to turn it off via the addons menu |
| 03:17.00 | Neuro_Medivh | ok |
| 03:17.17 | Tuller | everything is hidable in the next update |
| 03:17.35 | Tuller | even though it still wouldn't be the proper way to get rid of the casting bar |
| 03:17.55 | Neuro_Medivh | Ok. Reason I ask is because right now, I'm having eCB disable Bongo's bar if eCB is enabled. Too many people complaining that the default bar wasn't disappearing |
| 03:18.16 | Tuller | I should really just split it off now that curse allows plugins for stuff like the other websites |
| 03:19.37 | Tuller | much like how i should just include omnicc in bongos given everyone wrote their own cooldown count implementation |
| 03:19.42 | Thrae | The Curse addon site can no longer be destroyed now that Blizzard banned De-Curse-ive =/ |
| 03:20.08 | Neuro_Medivh | much to our dismay |
| 03:20.31 | nymbia | BAD PUN |
| 03:21.08 | Tuller | also, I find it really weird that the CT people made their action buttons nameless, even though I did the same with Sage |
| 03:21.33 | Tuller | but I think its more because actionbuttons are usually fairly standard and that helps a lot of mods that add to them |
| 03:21.54 | Neuro_Medivh | Cide has everything nameless |
| 03:22.09 | Tuller | aka, I now have to write in a hack to make omnicc work with the action buttons |
| 03:22.35 | Tuller | but I had to with discord as well, given loz named the icon portion differently |
| 03:25.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiar1 (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
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| 03:34.11 | Tuller | three? |
| 03:34.35 | Antiar4 | jk |
| 03:34.37 | Tuller | bah :P |
| 03:35.24 | Cairenn | humbug |
| 03:35.51 | End | is a humbugger someone who lives in humbug? |
| 03:35.57 | End | kinda like a hamburger? |
| 03:36.20 | Tuller | man, textpad really needs to have a confirmation for when I accidentally press the print button |
| 03:36.38 | Tuller | it must be a conspiracy between them and the printer manufacturers for me to waste ink |
| 03:40.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiar4 (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:42.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiar5 (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:43.04 | End | we have more Antiar clones now |
| 03:43.14 | End | and we lost one |
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| 03:44.53 | Tuller | they've gone hexidecimal! |
| 03:47.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiar6 (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:49.45 | PProvost | Hello all |
| 03:52.24 | Tuller | hello |
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| 03:55.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge subbhawt (i=biggy@65.89.109.213) |
| 03:56.47 | Tuller | so bar system: you have 120 buttons which are divided into x number of bars (10 by default), you assign each bar states for when it should show (in combat, out of combat, bear form, page 1), etc |
| 03:57.22 | Tuller | and some magical way to handle bars you want in the same position that kind of works like the chat frame tabs do |
| 03:57.34 | seebs | Hmm! |
| 03:57.39 | seebs | That's an interesting idea. |
| 03:57.59 | seebs | It's a little less flexible than what you have now, but it might be easier for people to understand. |
| 03:58.17 | Tuller | that's what I'm thinking |
| 03:58.24 | Neuro_Medivh | I just want to push a button and have the mob die. |
| 03:58.26 | Tuller | it should actually be as flexible as it is now |
| 03:58.38 | seebs | No, there's a thing I can do now that this hypothetical system won't let me do. |
| 03:58.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xuerian (n=core@12-196-151-93.psknet.net) |
| 03:58.45 | Tuller | Neuro_Medivh: so do I, but I want to make that button change :) |
| 03:59.02 | seebs | Imagine, if you will, a bar which I want to continue to show all the time, but I want it in a different position in a different stance. |
| 03:59.26 | Tuller | seebs, yes that's a limitation |
| 03:59.41 | seebs | I am not sure I care about it; I have thought of doing this, but I haven't actually done it. |
| 03:59.53 | Neuro_Medivh | screw bars, positions, stances! I want ONE BUTTON, preferably big red and shiny, that when I PUSH it, the mob I'm targeting explodes. |
| 04:00.08 | Tuller | Neuro_Medivh: no decursive :P |
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| 04:00.23 | Neuro_Medivh | Decursive was never big, red, or shiny enough for me |
| 04:00.38 | Tuller | I really wish I could make combat work like the A button in zelda |
| 04:00.49 | Neuro_Medivh | also, it needs to be labeled "History Eraser Button" |
| 04:01.10 | seebs | Some day, I am going to write a mod that somehow allows you to just mash a button and have it do what you mean. |
| 04:01.21 | seebs | I know this is supposed to be impossible. |
| 04:01.40 | seebs | Anyway, it's gonna be called "Perlis'Lollipop". |
| 04:02.28 | Tuller | yeah I'm just going to accept position switches in combat as a limitation :) |
| 04:03.01 | Tuller | keybindings will be able to jump at least |
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| 04:03.06 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 04:03.06 | seebs | Good enough. |
| 04:03.37 | seebs | The case where I thought it might be useful is having equipped items over by your combat skills in feral druid mode, and over by your equipment in caster mode. |
| 04:03.44 | seebs | And who cares, druids are too powerful anyway. :) |
| 04:04.04 | Tuller | I would just put my feral skills and my combat stuff in the same spot :P |
| 04:04.13 | Tuller | well feral and caster |
| 04:04.26 | seebs | Yeah, I do that. |
| 04:04.43 | seebs | But in caster mode, I can still use, say, [Gem-Studded Leather Belt], but not [Healing Potion]. |
| 04:04.59 | Tuller | one other limitation is that it might be a pain to do 120 buttons quickly, but I don't think anyone actually wants 120 individual buttons |
| 04:05.06 | seebs | So it might be useful to have the belt up next to my feral skills, when I don't have any spells available, but have it over by my other inventory items when I can use those. |
| 04:05.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mairelon (n=chatzill@c-24-20-144-92.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 04:05.27 | Tuller | put the potions on a small bar that's only shown in caster :) |
| 04:07.20 | Tuller | I also really need to bring back friendly/enemy states, but its a big hack to do |
| 04:08.04 | seebs | You know, I don't really care about those, personally; I've just plain never missed them. |
| 04:08.08 | seebs | YMMV. |
| 04:08.14 | seebs | I'm just used to having more than one set of buttons. |
| 04:08.34 | End | Tuller: yeah, it's a pain in the ass to implement |
| 04:08.44 | End | doable though |
| 04:08.54 | Tuller | I really wish help/harm defaulted to checking your target |
| 04:09.47 | End | really, you should just request to get harm/help put in the statedriver thing |
| 04:09.55 | End | or was that requested already and shot down? |
| 04:10.06 | End | (and if it was, why was it shot down) |
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| 04:10.38 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 04:10.56 | Iriel | It wasn't really necessary since buttons can have help/harm actions |
| 04:11.31 | End | if you are trying to do entire bar page switching its a big pain in the ass |
| 04:12.02 | Iriel | Well, make a good case for it and we'll see if slouken approves it |
| 04:12.40 | End | I suppose I could just describe the alternate methods of implementation |
| 04:12.52 | End | they all end up ugly |
| 04:13.42 | Tuller | seebs: well my entire druid strategy involved both moonfire and rejuv being on button 1 :) |
| 04:13.50 | seebs | Hee. |
| 04:13.57 | seebs | Hang on a sec, kicking router. |
| 04:14.32 | End | there have been times when I meant to heal someone, but attacked them instead because they got mind controlled |
| 04:14.46 | End | fortunately, moonfire is actually same button as regrowth |
| 04:15.03 | End | and I don't use regrowth that often, so with the other spells I can stop myself |
| 04:18.50 | Tuller | wonder if its easier now that I'm using showstates instead of virtual buttons |
| 04:22.01 | Tuller | I just remember the last time I worked on it the solution I thought would be best was to make the conditions default to target if the unit attribute isn't set for a given frame, since that usually means its an action button of some sort |
| 04:22.41 | Tuller | but no idea how it would break something else :) |
| 04:23.20 | Tuller | what have you written, end? |
| 04:23.36 | Tuller | for some reason I want to say you're working on flexbar |
| 04:23.48 | End | I was just trying to write a reactionbar cloen |
| 04:23.52 | End | *clone |
| 04:24.12 | End | I did came up with several ways to do it |
| 04:24.39 | Tuller | ah |
| 04:25.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge seebs_ (n=seebs@mail.seebs.net) |
| 04:27.08 | seebs | Blar. |
| 04:27.19 | End | blart |
| 04:27.31 | seebs | My router is about as smart as you'd expect a 1st-gen DSL box to be, and if you reboot it, it doesn't bother to RST any open connections. |
| 04:39.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBork1 (n=Joshua@adsl-155-139-248.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:40.13 | Corrodias | what is... "idChat-1.1"? |
| 04:41.02 | JoshBork1 | hola |
| 04:43.56 | Tuller | industrial's chatmod that does stuff to chat :) |
| 04:44.04 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Imrcly (n=tim@74-128-180-191.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 04:44.47 | Industrial | where, what? |
| 04:45.02 | nymbia | ~blame Industrial |
| 04:45.03 | purl | ACTION blames Industrial (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 04:45.40 | Industrial | im sorry im sorry really i didnt do it ok heres 100 dollars please dont kill me? |
| 04:48.24 | Thunder_Child | hmm...that and canada thing is poping up all over |
| 04:48.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sergio (n=sp@unaffiliated/sergio) |
| 04:48.46 | Thunder_Child | feels like another mike incident |
| 04:48.54 | Corrodias | so i might have a thyroid problem |
| 04:49.03 | Cairenn | o.O |
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| 04:49.57 | Corrodias | i get to find out on thursday |
| 04:53.58 | Tuller | hrm, so I loaded default settings: actionbar 1 worked, 2 worked, 3 worked, 4 worked, 5 worked, 6 had 60 buttons :P |
| 04:56.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 04:57.01 | ckknight | hey all |
| 04:57.06 | Cairenn | hi ckknight |
| 05:02.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:05.15 | Cairenn | night Maire|Sleep |
| 05:07.36 | JoshBork1 | and HealWatch has been updated... |
| 05:08.52 | Cairenn | indeed and it has |
| 05:10.40 | JoshBork1 | it's like the work version i've ever released |
| 05:10.46 | JoshBork1 | but at least they'll have something to play with :) |
| 05:11.05 | End | does work=worst? |
| 05:11.25 | JoshBork1 | yes... |
| 05:11.30 | End | I see. |
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| 05:26.34 | JoshBork1 | Cairenn: btw, thank you :) |
| 05:26.44 | Cairenn | hehe |
| 05:26.46 | Cairenn | you're welcome |
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| 05:45.56 | Industrial | tip: idle in an inn for hours when coding, not after coding. |
| 05:48.00 | End | someday I'm gonna cap a flag on my mage |
| 05:48.07 | End | I just gotta keep trying! |
| 05:48.35 | bleetah | tip: idle in the AH with auctioneer beta and btmscanner working |
| 05:48.58 | bleetah | then code to fix bugs :P |
| 05:49.13 | bleetah | *fix bugs for us |
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| 06:03.49 | Industrial | mrplow plows faster in linux |
| 06:03.52 | Industrial | is that even possible? |
| 06:05.51 | Tuller | yes, maybe |
| 06:06.03 | Tuller | lots of spyware :) |
| 06:07.08 | Industrial | spyware ?!? :S |
| 06:07.42 | Tuller | on your windows side :) |
| 06:08.14 | Industrial | nah, 0 |
| 06:08.36 | Industrial | my windows boots REEL quick and I never have virusses or spyware :P |
| 06:08.59 | Industrial | and my time libthingy just started working yay |
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| 06:09.26 | Tuller | hurray |
| 06:11.39 | xgravix | i wish my windows boot REEL quick =( |
| 06:12.03 | Industrial | Whats the event that fires after all addons have been loaded? |
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| 06:14.51 | MentalPower|DVD | VARIABLES_LOADED |
| 06:15.33 | Tuller | VARIABLES_LOADED, PLAYER_LOGIN, PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 06:15.57 | Tuller | PLAYER_LOGIN is called after frames have been positioned |
| 06:16.18 | Tuller | http://www.wowwiki.com/Events_that_fire_during_the_Loading_Process |
| 06:17.31 | JoshBork1 | Industrial: what time libthingt? |
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| 06:20.39 | Scre3m | is auctioneer released? |
| 06:21.18 | ckknight | Iriel: SetTexCoord makes me sad |
| 06:21.31 | Iriel | ckknight: Why is that? |
| 06:22.14 | ckknight | Iriel: basically, I'm trying to rotate an image x-degrees, let's say 45-degrees for now. The problem is, by rotating it, since its edge is not transparent, the corners looks all icky |
| 06:22.16 | JoshBork1 | personally it hurts my head |
| 06:22.41 | ckknight | since the corners take on the properties of the edge of the texture instead of just transparent. |
| 06:22.48 | JoshBork1 | elminate edges? |
| 06:22.51 | ckknight | is there any way around this? |
| 06:22.59 | ckknight | I can't alter the texture |
| 06:23.25 | Iriel | Ah yes, you need to give it a transparent border.. otherwise no, the wow UI graphics engine doesn't know how to do texture combining |
| 06:23.34 | ckknight | :'( |
| 06:25.20 | ckknight | why doesn't it assume transparent outside the [0,1]x[0,1] segment? |
| 06:25.22 | ckknight | jw |
| 06:28.03 | Iriel | It's just how the texture engine is configured.. I wonder if that's an option at the DirectX/OpenGL level we could beg to have enabled |
| 06:28.36 | Iriel | (optionally, of course, some folks (me) rely on the other behavior) |
| 06:30.05 | ckknight | hrm, what do you use it for? |
| 06:30.53 | Iriel | Circle segments |
| 06:31.23 | ckknight | hrm... |
| 06:31.42 | ckknight | I don't see how... |
| 06:31.44 | Iriel | well, triangles actually, |
| 06:31.57 | Iriel | which are part of circle segments |
| 06:33.40 | MentalPower|DVD | I've had no issues rotating a texture with non-transparent borders |
| 06:33.54 | MentalPower|DVD | well, two of the four borders aren't transparent |
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| 06:34.13 | Iriel | It rotates, it just bleeds into the rectangle |
| 06:34.18 | ckknight | MentalPower|DVD: if you set the coord outside the [0,1]x[0,1], it will bleed |
| 06:34.29 | ckknight | the bleeding hurtses us |
| 06:34.33 | ckknight | well, me, specifically. |
| 06:34.42 | MentalPower|DVD | SS? |
| 06:35.21 | End | yeah I don't like it either |
| 06:38.42 | qhiiyr | i'm a newbie to UI modding, and i'm trying to check how many of a specific item are in the player's inventory. do i use BAG_UPDATE? |
| 06:39.12 | ckknight | they added an API function for that... |
| 06:39.18 | ckknight | GetItemCount, afaik |
| 06:39.34 | ckknight | BAG_UPDATE will be fired when something changes, though. |
| 06:40.07 | qhiiyr | oh, right, okay. yeah, i want to use BAG_UPDATE as an event, too |
| 06:40.08 | JoshBork1 | night all |
| 06:41.03 | ckknight | yep, qhiiyr |
| 06:41.26 | qhiiyr | for GetItemCount, i can use itemLink or itemID? what is itemID? |
| 06:41.41 | ckknight | that's a question wowwiki can answer. |
| 06:41.52 | qhiiyr | i'm there right now |
| 06:42.06 | qhiiyr | there's no page for GetItemCount though, only the arguments list |
| 06:43.08 | ckknight | itemID is part of an itemlink, it's what |Hitem:blah|h is, or so. |
| 06:43.11 | ckknight | I forget |
| 06:43.22 | nymbia | its the first one |
| 06:43.55 | qhiiyr | oh, okay, so you don't need the RGB values. thanks! |
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| 06:50.49 | MentalPower|DVD | qhiiyr: like all the other item query functions, you can use either itemID, itemString, itemLink or itemName |
| 06:51.42 | qhiiyr | is itemName simply the name of the item as it appears to the player? |
| 06:52.00 | MentalPower|ZZzz | aye |
| 06:52.13 | MentalPower|ZZzz | "Abjurer's Cloak of the Whale" |
| 06:52.18 | qhiiyr | awesome, that makes everything so much easier. thanks |
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| 07:01.31 | qhiiyr | how do i check the conditions of an event that has occured? i.e. i want to only do something if ITEM_PUSH was for a certain item |
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| 07:10.12 | seebs | Those will be in the arguments to the event, normally. |
| 07:11.23 | qhiiyr | mkay, but how do i access those arguments, set them to variables? i have no LUA experience. |
| 07:12.37 | Industrial | JoshBorke: pm |
| 07:13.13 | Industrial | qhiiyr: through the global variables arg1 to arg9 |
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| 08:54.38 | Tman | <-- oprahwindfury has quit (Quit: free epics mounts for my entire studio audience.) |
| 08:57.18 | Industrial | lmao |
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| 08:58.24 | Industrial | I need an addon to put away my hunterstuffs in wich is not Zhuntermod |
| 08:58.31 | Industrial | kinda like that |
| 08:58.33 | Industrial | :p |
| 09:00.07 | Industrial | also: what does Unknown unit token: name-of-event mean? :s |
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| 09:09.48 | Scre3m | how would i write a macro to send my pet to attack what i have my mouse hovering over? |
| 09:10.21 | Industrial | you cant |
| 09:10.27 | Industrial | your pet attacks your target |
| 09:10.51 | Industrial | and you can only do /petattack |
| 09:11.08 | axxo | unless /petattack [target=mouseover] works |
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| 09:21.56 | Industrial | sadfasdf its driving me crazy |
| 09:22.00 | Industrial | I need something to inspect events |
| 09:22.10 | Scre3m | interesting, if you have no target, /petattack attacks the mouseover |
| 09:22.21 | Industrial | what args what types conents if tables, etcetera. |
| 09:22.30 | Industrial | wow misses shit. |
| 09:28.10 | Industrial | and wowwiki isnt updated |
| 09:43.11 | ckknight | Scre3m: /target mouseover /petattack /targetlasttarget |
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| 09:51.16 | Sstixrud | Anyone up for helping a wow addon newb get off the ground? :) |
| 09:51.54 | Industrial | Anyone use DevTools? Whats userdata? |
| 09:52.05 | zenzelezz | Sstixrud: might be a bit early yet, but your best bet is usually to just ask here in the channel so everyone can chip in |
| 09:52.22 | Sstixrud | heh early.. I have yet to go to bed :) |
| 09:53.04 | Industrial | more specifically UNIT_NAME_UPDATE is returning only one arg wich us "user data". what do I do with it? |
| 09:54.09 | Sstixrud | well, I am in the process of attempting to add some features to a mod I use.. namely a mod called PartyBars. I want to add a configuration interface (numof buttons, button scale etc..) and hopefully flashing buttons when health threshold is reached. |
| 09:54.20 | seebs | userdata is the type of objects of special types from a library. It might be a frame. |
| 09:54.28 | seebs | Try calling a frame method on it and see whether that works. |
| 09:54.32 | seebs | Or a unit method. |
| 09:54.56 | Sstixrud | I have most of the basics figured out, am having trouble getting the mod to actually save its configuration data into a table.. the table is always blank |
| 09:56.27 | zenzelezz | blank when, when you reload the UI/relog? |
| 09:56.55 | Sstixrud | the SaveVariables file for the mod is empty like "ModSettings { }" |
| 09:57.11 | |FF|Im2good4u | oke |
| 09:57.25 | zenzelezz | are you sure you assigned values to the table then? |
| 09:57.30 | seebs | Are you waiting for ADDON_LOADED? |
| 09:57.38 | seebs | When your OnLoad is called, your SavedVariables haven't been read yet! |
| 09:57.40 | Sstixrud | debugging seems somewhat difficult in event based programming... :) |
| 09:58.12 | |FF|Im2good4u | well where to initise your variable ? |
| 09:58.36 | |FF|Im2good4u | de setting it to { } try setting it to { lol = 1 } |
| 09:58.41 | seebs | Register for ADDON_LOADED, when you get ADDON_LOADED with arg1 == your name, then your savedvariables have been loaded. |
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| 09:59.21 | |FF|Im2good4u | his problem is that the saved variable file stays gives an empty table |
| 09:59.43 | seebs | Yes. |
| 09:59.48 | Sstixrud | can I past some code snipts in this channel? |
| 09:59.55 | seebs | Not really; use pastey. |
| 09:59.56 | Sstixrud | or better to post at a url? |
| 10:00.10 | Industrial | pastey.net |
| 10:00.13 | Industrial | seebs: pm :> |
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| 10:04.40 | Sstixrud | well, before I past up the code.. the addon I am modding seems to have put in infrustructure for saving variables... but is not using it.. there is a MyModGlobals.lau that is triggered from the main xml file via an OnLoad event. Would this be the right place to put variables that I both want to load at startup and change interactively? |
| 10:07.48 | |FF|Im2good4u | no |
| 10:09.14 | |FF|Im2good4u | the right place to load variable is after a event "VARIABLES_LOADED" |
| 10:09.34 | Neuro_Medivh | sigh, the downside of mod authoring... the email box that I used to get feedback on my mod is now being hit with 10-20 trojans a day |
| 10:10.34 | |FF|Im2good4u | at that point all saved variable have been loaded then u can check if your variable did load up like if mytable then and it it isnt loaded u can inituase it to default (this happent when ppl first instal this mod) |
| 10:13.33 | Sstixrud | Ok, what about changing it interactively via an UI? Am I correct in thinking a simple table listing the variables and values is sufficent? i.e. PartyBars_Settings = { ["NUMBERBUTTONS"] = 6, etc... } |
| 10:15.54 | Sstixrud | I assume I have to make PartyBars_Settings a table inside a function and call it with an arguement to change specific values? |
| 10:16.37 | |FF|Im2good4u | well acutaly i made mod that i think might do about the same thing as wut u mean and i made a table whit for each button and other table witch hold the botun its parameteers |
| 10:17.01 | |FF|Im2good4u | not realy |
| 10:17.02 | Sstixrud | I would love to see it as an example if you don't mind |
| 10:17.40 | |FF|Im2good4u | saved varable as often globel i dunno if u can evne make them local so u can ecces them in any function and alter them an time |
| 10:18.25 | |FF|Im2good4u | well sorry Sstixrud i do mind lol its not finished yet but its basicly a mod for my guild only i might later on make it public |
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| 10:18.49 | Sstixrud | As long as I can change variables via a UI and save and load them later I don't much care how its done :) |
| 10:19.08 | Sstixrud | Im2 fair enough |
| 10:19.26 | |FF|Im2good4u | well u can and its quite easly |
| 10:19.54 | |FF|Im2good4u | if u add a variable to the TOC as saved then it gets saved ' |
| 10:20.10 | |FF|Im2good4u | then at the event "VARIABLES_LOADED" itsl aoded back and u can acees it again |
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| 10:45.31 | Dhraga | Morning all |
| 10:45.40 | zenzelezz | hellu |
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| 11:30.26 | thr | Is there any way to do like |
| 11:34.49 | zenzelezz | like..? |
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| 11:49.18 | nymbia | just that. |
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| 13:45.31 | Industrial | I can do local a, b, c, d = '' right? |
| 13:45.54 | Industrial | or do I need to do local a, b, c, d = '', '', '', '' wich seems a bit dumb :> |
| 13:46.38 | amro | yeah |
| 13:46.41 | amro | you can |
| 13:47.25 | Industrial | k |
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| 13:47.27 | amro | actually no |
| 13:47.31 | Industrial | :3 |
| 13:48.38 | amro | the first will result in b, c, d being set to nil |
| 13:48.59 | amro | at first i thought it worked because it didn't raise an error |
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| 13:54.14 | Industrial | lmao i just killed a 60 that poked a guard |
| 13:54.22 | Industrial | im level 25 |
| 13:54.24 | Industrial | guard 45 |
| 13:54.50 | Industrial | I kept slowing him down and moving out of hist range then chargin in and wing clipping, and then concussive shot again haha |
| 13:55.33 | amro | i camped a level ?? at tarren mill, before the guard buff |
| 13:55.42 | amro | when i was level 32 orso |
| 13:55.52 | amro | iceblock > gankers |
| 13:57.19 | Industrial | i dont have that yet :< |
| 13:57.50 | zenzelezz | damnit, my Target of Target frame keeps vanishing |
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| 14:35.58 | Industrial | how do i distinguish between an elite and rare mob? |
| 14:38.09 | kremonte | UnitClassification() |
| 14:38.24 | kremonte | returns 'elite' or 'rare' or 'rareelite' |
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| 14:52.53 | Industrial | k |
| 14:53.14 | Industrial | I was using UnitIsPlusMob |
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| 15:26.04 | Bouvi | Morning are we having fun yet? |
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| 15:27.58 | zenzelezz | yes, we are |
| 15:32.02 | cladhaire | i'm fixing a nasty bug that showed up because of the way RDX is written |
| 15:33.27 | Bouvi | Fun fun |
| 15:35.09 | Mery | yeah what were they thinking when the prefixed their variables with rdx_ [/sarcasm off] |
| 15:36.21 | cladhaire | what were they thinking when they create 200 frames OnLoad |
| 15:36.41 | Mery | "I'm gonna need them later" |
| 15:36.55 | Mery | now that was obvious :) |
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| 15:41.15 | sylvanaar | what is their decursive replacement? rdx that is |
| 15:45.02 | Bouvi | Ohhhhh I think I am going to like clique :) Very nice. |
| 15:45.13 | cladhaire | heh thanks. |
| 15:45.47 | Bouvi | Just pulled my priest out of mothballs |
| 15:47.32 | |Shadow| | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9ZhYiUs4g&NR |
| 15:47.37 | |Shadow| | Thats pretty cool, wow with a wiimote |
| 15:53.12 | Bouvi | Yep I love clique way to go on that one :) |
| 15:53.19 | cladhaire | heheh thanks. |
| 15:53.42 | Bouvi | Stormrage beware a new uber healer is in town. Lvl 38 and growing lol |
| 15:53.53 | cladhaire | hehe i'll come powerlevel =) |
| 15:54.04 | cladhaire | with one of my 93 level 60's. |
| 15:54.29 | Bouvi | lol I have been playing on Stormrage since day 1 and only have my rogue Bouvi to 60 lol |
| 15:54.41 | cladhaire | same here, except the multiple 60's =) |
| 15:54.49 | cladhaire | my druid started on Kael'thas when we had the painful server issues tho |
| 15:54.52 | cladhaire | but he's transferred |
| 15:56.06 | Bouvi | I still can't believe I have played this game over 2 years with only 1 60 and just got my first alt above 40 last week. |
| 15:57.16 | End | I have 3 60s now, but the 2 newest are fairly recent |
| 15:57.34 | End | well, I've had them forever, but they only hit 60 fairly recently |
| 15:58.07 | cladhaire | Elkano: Thanks for the report. |
| 15:58.36 | Elkano | ah, you still have forum rights? k :) |
| 15:58.45 | cladhaire | what do you mean "Still"? |
| 15:58.59 | Elkano | well, you said you lost your rights on addons |
| 15:59.09 | cladhaire | huh? when did i say that? |
| 16:00.47 | Elkano | or is my memory cheating me? I thought I had asked you a while back to approvw an upload and you said that you lost the rights to do so. or was it Kaelten I asked? hmmm... |
| 16:00.57 | Elkano | well, anyways... never mind :) |
| 16:01.10 | cladhaire | thats Kaelten |
| 16:01.35 | Bouvi | Well if you have rights get over there and approve mine lol. *ducks* |
| 16:01.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-71-107.ewetel.net) |
| 16:02.12 | cladhaire | it would have been approved already if i got email notification =) |
| 16:02.28 | Bouvi | Elkano I love your buffbars been using them forever :) |
| 16:02.32 | Elkano | ^^ |
| 16:03.01 | Bouvi | Dang e-mail snaffus lol |
| 16:03.42 | End | hmm, apparently calling debugstack() doesn't help much unless you do something with the return value |
| 16:03.45 | End | :P |
| 16:04.41 | End | also, it doesn't help if you try to send the result to CharFrame1 |
| 16:04.53 | Bouvi | hmmmm looks like I use just about all your mods Elk. O.o |
| 16:05.07 | Elkano | oh, cool :) |
| 16:05.41 | Bouvi | Don't use friendsFu as I do not have any friends lol or actually never really maintained a friends list. |
| 16:06.08 | cladhaire | i maintain a friends list solely for pvp |
| 16:06.08 | cladhaire | heh |
| 16:06.45 | axxo | friend list addon with categories would be imba |
| 16:07.03 | Bouvi | Be back in a bit. Wife just called and wants me to meet her for lunch. Laters |
| 16:07.19 | amro | later |
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| 16:10.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Smeltn (n=smeltn@adsl-152-94-65.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:10.40 | Smeltn | good morning |
| 16:11.35 | Smeltn | is there a mod out now like moveanything that also allows me to hide stuff? |
| 16:12.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jocco_S (n=jocco@217-210-128-16-no18.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:13.15 | alcaras | Smeltn: visor? |
| 16:13.19 | alcaras | Smeltn: or moveanything |
| 16:13.24 | alcaras | moveanything also allows hiding :p |
| 16:13.28 | alcaras | what do you want to hide in particular? |
| 16:14.20 | Smeltn | well |
| 16:14.25 | Smeltn | I have this stupid button on my minimap |
| 16:14.28 | Smeltn | that I can not get rid of |
| 16:14.32 | alcaras | ah that |
| 16:14.35 | Smeltn | I have been trying for 4 days |
| 16:14.41 | Smeltn | and DMB doesnt move it |
| 16:14.47 | Smeltn | its locked on my minimap |
| 16:15.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro (n=amro@82.101.184.178) |
| 16:15.18 | alcaras | look for "hidemapbutton" ui mod |
| 16:15.20 | alcaras | it should do waht you want |
| 16:17.01 | Smeltn | thanks |
| 16:17.05 | Smeltn | you know the worse par tis |
| 16:17.17 | Smeltn | I just logged in, just to take a screenshot of it |
| 16:17.19 | Smeltn | and it isnt there |
| 16:17.22 | Smeltn | first time it isnt there |
| 16:20.24 | Smeltn | and now |
| 16:20.35 | Smeltn | my bg minimap button is gone |
| 16:20.38 | Smeltn | wtf... |
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| 16:36.53 | cogwheel | ScytheBlade1: ping |
| 16:41.00 | Industrial | ding 26 |
| 16:41.43 | cladhaire | grats |
| 16:43.21 | ScytheBlade1 | cogwheel, pong |
| 16:43.28 | cogwheel | morning :) |
| 16:43.35 | cogwheel | did you get my svndump link last night? |
| 16:43.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure did |
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| 16:43.59 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 16:44.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Importing now |
| 16:44.53 | ScytheBlade1 | And done |
| 16:46.45 | cogwheel | wootness! |
| 16:47.07 | cogwheel | looks good. thanks again :) |
| 16:47.40 | ScytheBlade1 | np |
| 16:54.26 | Smeltn | question |
| 16:54.49 | Smeltn | is there an autoturnin mod that works now, also i would like a auto except group invites mod |
| 16:54.51 | Smeltn | : ) |
| 16:56.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mery (i=metelman@p57A958CB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:57.53 | |Shadow| | are there any addons that make all minimap buttons work around the minimap as a square minimap instead as a round one? |
| 16:58.03 | |Shadow| | i've been useing abacus, but the bugs in it are starting to get on my nerves :( |
| 17:03.58 | alcaras | simpleminimap lets you move around the buttons |
| 17:06.09 | Thunder_Child | also DetachedMiniButtons |
| 17:06.46 | |Shadow| | i have simpleminimap allready |
| 17:06.51 | |Shadow| | how do i use it to move my buttons? :D |
| 17:12.30 | Scre3m | Smeltn, minimist and extended quest log |
| 17:12.57 | Scre3m | s/minimist/minimalist/ |
| 17:18.12 | foxlit|zzz | Is PARTY_LEADER_CHANGED for battlegroups? |
| 17:18.16 | foxlit|zzz | ^ raised |
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| 17:30.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Random question |
| 17:31.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Do any of you go about reading the top-tier guild recruitment forums on your servers, just to laugh hysterically at some of the apps? |
| 17:31.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@66.225.8.145) |
| 17:31.46 | cogwheel | only forum i troll is UI and Macros XD |
| 17:32.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean individual guild-specific forums |
| 17:32.16 | clad|nap | cogwheel: And troll you do =) |
| 17:32.21 | zenzelezz | ScytheBlade1: not usually, but I see some funny ones on ours now and then |
| 17:32.30 | zenzelezz | that basically just shout out "want free epix k?" |
| 17:32.37 | cogwheel | I would never! |
| 17:32.38 | cogwheel | XD |
| 17:32.41 | ScytheBlade1 | We have two guilds on my server that have Kel'Thuzad on farm |
| 17:32.44 | ScytheBlade1 | One alliance, one horde |
| 17:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | And crap, there are some _funny_ apps |
| 17:34.09 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.drow.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24251 |
| 17:34.12 | ScytheBlade1 | For example |
| 17:34.31 | ScytheBlade1 | "on a scale from 1 to 10 how high were you when you were making this app?" |
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| 17:36.03 | clad|nap | heh |
| 17:36.16 | clad|nap | we get those on our servers raiding guilds, let alone the top tier ones =) |
| 17:36.21 | clad|nap | if you're in BWl you get those.. like crazy |
| 17:36.22 | zenzelezz | I always get a kick out of it when they manage to use the wrong guild name in their applications |
| 17:36.39 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 17:37.00 | ScytheBlade1 | clad|nap, what server? |
| 17:37.20 | clad|nap | stormrage |
| 17:37.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Newer server? |
| 17:37.32 | clad|nap | no, day one |
| 17:37.46 | clad|nap | we were a -6 month guild, at least 6 months behind the rest of the server |
| 17:37.48 | clad|nap | and WE got them =) |
| 17:37.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, gotcha |
| 17:38.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I play on Doomhammer... http://wowwiki.com/Doomhammer_Guild_Progression |
| 17:38.09 | ScytheBlade1 | That list makes me happy inside |
| 17:38.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | <ScytheBlade1> "on a scale from 1 to 10 how high were you when you were making this app?" |
| 17:38.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | my guild leader was drunk or stoned more often than not during raids |
| 17:38.56 | ScytheBlade1 | gg |
| 17:38.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | and he was the main tank |
| 17:38.56 | clad|nap | lol |
| 17:38.57 | ScytheBlade1 | My last guild, the MT was completly plastered more often than not |
| 17:39.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | Vael was not fun when he was totally wasted and we were learning him |
| 17:39.09 | ScytheBlade1 | "Drinks like a fish" is an understatement |
| 17:39.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | i think i spent about 25g in repairs |
| 17:39.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | on vael |
| 17:39.26 | nevcairiel | per day? |
| 17:39.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | cause he'd just charge in while people were being res'd |
| 17:39.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | nah we just tried him for like 6 hours straight |
| 17:39.43 | clad|nap | i was in strat yesterday |
| 17:39.49 | clad|nap | with a T2+ warrior |
| 17:39.52 | clad|nap | knew the game in and out. |
| 17:39.55 | Thunder_Child | a drunk leroy? |
| 17:40.05 | clad|nap | he took out a yeti, walked into barons room |
| 17:40.10 | clad|nap | yeti attacked baron |
| 17:40.14 | clad|nap | warrior logged out |
| 17:40.17 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 17:40.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | hahaha |
| 17:40.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | ahhaha |
| 17:40.26 | clad|nap | apparently he was so ashamed, he logged out |
| 17:40.28 | Tuller | I can only assume an old friend of mine enters some sort of bullet time for healing when stone |
| 17:40.30 | clad|nap | and we didn't see him for 2 days |
| 17:40.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | man i was tanking a strat run and got d/ced with baron at 20% |
| 17:40.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | bellsouth was doing maintenance on my line :[ |
| 17:40.46 | nevcairiel | haha |
| 17:40.58 | zenzelezz | pardon my ignorance... but a yeti in Stratholme? |
| 17:41.00 | clad|nap | we 3 manned baron to 9% the other day |
| 17:41.07 | clad|nap | with a druid (me) tanking |
| 17:41.12 | clad|nap | zenzelezz: Combat yeti, or some shit like that. |
| 17:41.14 | clad|nap | some combat helper. |
| 17:41.18 | zenzelezz | oh |
| 17:41.19 | nevcairiel | i accidently got locked out of the gate on baron back when it was bugged, being the only healer, the rest of my group did the baron without any healing class then :D |
| 17:41.26 | nevcairiel | yay for high-end equip |
| 17:41.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | my tanking gear isn't top-notch but i've got about 15k armor in 2.0.3 |
| 17:42.06 | zenzelezz | I've seen so many pets attack baron when they enter the room... never fails |
| 17:42.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | yep |
| 17:42.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | on my hunter once |
| 17:42.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | the petbar was bugging out |
| 17:42.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | and i just captured this boar before the run, on the way |
| 17:42.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge |Shadow| (n=Shadow@212.32.67.231) |
| 17:42.38 | Mr_Rabies2 | so i didn't know they didn't start in passive. |
| 17:42.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | they start in defensive |
| 17:42.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-77-144.ewetel.net) |
| 17:42.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | defensive + unholy aura = CHARGE |
| 17:43.12 | zenzelezz | I wish my guild had come farther in Naxxramas before 2.0... now we don't raid until BC, and I'm stuck with ~10k armor |
| 17:43.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm wearing a decent amount of stormrage for tanking |
| 17:43.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | since it has decent stam and armor |
| 17:44.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | and plus my old guild was stupid about loot |
| 17:44.09 | zenzelezz | I'm a little bit mixed... four Wrath, two Dreadnaught, two ZG |
| 17:44.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | only gear that druids could get before anyone else was healing leather, not even healing staves or weaps |
| 17:44.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | any melee leather was rogue first even if it was pure str |
| 17:44.53 | zenzelezz | that's sort of... what's the word... stupid? |
| 17:45.03 | End | even mulf's blessed bulwark? |
| 17:45.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | yep |
| 17:45.13 | End | a rogue would do better with blues |
| 17:45.18 | Mr_Rabies2 | yeah no rogues wanted it |
| 17:45.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | so i got it then every other one i ever saw got de'd |
| 17:45.32 | Mr_Rabies2 | cause all the other druids were priests in leather |
| 17:45.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | god i hate druids that don't play druids |
| 17:46.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | i lost the kickass aq20 boots from rajaxx or whatever to a rogue |
| 17:46.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | and i was wearing green boots, they were in tier 1 :/ |
| 17:47.24 | zenzelezz | I think the thing we saw most often in Naxxramas was the Ghoul Skin Tunic |
| 17:47.34 | zenzelezz | everyone has it... even paladins |
| 17:49.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | yeah i want that damn thing |
| 17:49.32 | Mr_Rabies2 | so bad |
| 17:49.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'd kill a monkey and wear his butt as a hat for a week for that |
| 17:49.59 | Mr_Rabies2 | ...where the hell did that come from? |
| 17:50.16 | zenzelezz | one good night we had one of those, one warlock epic and two (!) Misplaced Servo Arms drop from trash |
| 17:50.23 | End | how about wear his hat for -two- weeks? |
| 17:50.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | friend of mine has 2 misplaced servo arms |
| 17:50.36 | End | s/hat/butt as hat/ |
| 17:50.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | could i lysol the butt every now and then this is important |
| 17:50.57 | End | lol |
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| 17:58.42 | Thursdae | Hey guys |
| 17:58.48 | Thursdae | Who has the TBC beta? |
| 18:00.25 | End | most of us |
| 18:00.28 | End | me included |
| 18:00.54 | Thursdae | Well anyone know about the flying mounts, like what rep you would need to get discounts and where you buy tehm exactly |
| 18:01.27 | End | I would have no idea, my character is still level 61 :P |
| 18:01.48 | Thursdae | -.- |
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| 18:03.54 | Kameril | there is no rep associated with them last i heard |
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| 18:11.06 | alcaras | what's an mpq program that can open mpq files over 2 gb? |
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| 18:12.31 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBork1 (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 18:12.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xolan[EU] (n=Xolan[EU@216-22-86.521110.adsl.tele2.no) |
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| 18:20.03 | Tuller | alcaras: winmpq/ |
| 18:20.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBork1 (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 18:25.00 | Xolan[EU] | Got a quick question here; I've never tried having a mod speak with a mod on another client. Is that difficult? Maybe someone has a quick howto or so on crossclient mod communication? |
| 18:25.46 | clad|nap | there may be some informatino on the wiki with SendAddOnMessage() |
| 18:25.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bouvi (n=Bouvi@c-68-34-223-122.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 18:26.15 | Xolan[EU] | right, I'll have a closer look |
| 18:26.16 | Bouvi | And I am back with a headache :( |
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| 18:27.30 | Xolan[EU] | lo bou, congrats on your first mod :) |
| 18:27.40 | Bouvi | Thanks :) |
| 18:28.03 | Xolan[EU] | and second :P |
| 18:28.19 | Bouvi | Thanks again lol. I am fine tuning and cleaning up the code on both now. |
| 18:29.20 | Xolan[EU] | sweet, will try it out once I get me a game card tomorrow |
| 18:32.49 | Bouvi | Now if I could get my FuBar addon to holds it's setting when zoning I would be golden lol |
| 18:35.05 | Xolan[EU] | well I'm still very new to this |
| 18:35.08 | Xolan[EU] | :P |
| 18:35.12 | Bouvi | Me too lol |
| 18:37.11 | Bouvi | UIs I can design. Addons are a totally different creature. |
| 18:37.30 | Xolan[EU] | thinking of making a simple "assign heal targets" mod. Basically if you are promoted in a raid (or you're the raid leader) you can give every healer a target. Once you've set everyone up you hit "submit" or so, and it should display in a simple box for the healers. |
| 18:37.34 | Xolan[EU] | have no idea where to start though lol |
| 18:37.59 | Bouvi | Me either but sounds like a good idea. |
| 18:38.30 | axxo | sounds like it exists |
| 18:38.42 | Xolan[EU] | There are similar mods out there, but they're either bloated or use the chat. |
| 18:38.48 | Xolan[EU] | those I've found anyways |
| 18:39.19 | Xolan[EU] | exists or not, that will be my first project I think :) |
| 18:39.40 | Bouvi | I started with something ALOT easier hehe |
| 18:41.41 | End | holy crap! |
| 18:41.54 | End | you know the guys outside of thrallmar who fight the infernals |
| 18:42.07 | End | (similar ones probably exist outside of the alliance city too..) |
| 18:42.08 | End | anyways |
| 18:42.14 | End | they are taking on a felreaver |
| 18:43.40 | End | oh, that was cool |
| 18:44.54 | Bouvi | Kewl did they kill it? |
| 18:44.57 | End | yeah |
| 18:45.38 | End | oh damn, I should have taken a screenshot |
| 18:47.32 | Xolan[EU] | :) |
| 18:50.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:51.34 | ckknight | hey all |
| 18:52.10 | Xolan[EU] | hey :) |
| 18:56.41 | Bouvi | Heya ck |
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| 19:08.16 | Bouvi | If this a valid If statement? if GetNumRaidMembers() > 0 and Auto_LootFu.db.profile.AutoParty_On == "true" then |
| 19:08.31 | Bouvi | s/If/Is |
| 19:08.39 | Bouvi | s/Is/If/ |
| 19:08.47 | Bouvi | *sigh* |
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| 19:09.29 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|AFK] by ChanServ |
| 19:11.04 | Xolan[EU] | looks valid to me |
| 19:11.25 | Xolan[EU] | if that second variable is correct that is |
| 19:11.37 | Bouvi | That is what I thought. It is just doing the command no matter what Auto_LootFu.db.profile.AutoParty_On is set to. |
| 19:11.48 | Xolan[EU] | oh |
| 19:11.51 | Xolan[EU] | remove the " |
| 19:12.00 | Bouvi | Unless it uses || instead of and like other languages do.... |
| 19:12.01 | Xolan[EU] | as true is a boolean value, not a string? |
| 19:12.19 | zenzelezz | || is or, && is and |
| 19:12.29 | zenzelezz | in most languages, not lua |
| 19:12.46 | Bouvi | In lua it is and then |
| 19:12.57 | Xolan[EU] | could try a != nil maybe? :P |
| 19:13.07 | nevcairiel | ~= nil |
| 19:13.11 | nevcairiel | would be it |
| 19:13.11 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 19:13.11 | Tuller | ~= |
| 19:13.12 | Xolan[EU] | bah |
| 19:13.15 | Tuller | but the easier way would be if var |
| 19:13.17 | foxlit | Bouvi: yes, it is |
| 19:13.29 | foxlit | Although "true" is quite simply a string containing "true" |
| 19:13.32 | foxlit | Not true as such. |
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| 19:13.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@64.193.93.197) |
| 19:13.59 | Bouvi | So take "true" out of quotes? |
| 19:14.02 | Xolan[EU] | yep that's what I meant above, although if var should work just as well like tuller says |
| 19:14.23 | Xolan[EU] | yep bou, try that |
| 19:14.26 | foxlit | If you want the keyword, yes. |
| 19:14.41 | foxlit | you could also just go if GetNumRaidMembers() > 0 and Auto_LootFu.db.profile.AutoParty_On then |
| 19:14.45 | foxlit | and reply on coercing. |
| 19:15.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@64.193.93.197) |
| 19:15.42 | Xolan[EU] | quick question - is it Shamen or Shamans? |
| 19:16.05 | Bouvi | What about the Shawomen |
| 19:16.23 | Xolan[EU] | ... :p |
| 19:16.26 | foxlit | Shamans is more popular, but shamen is in the dictionary. |
| 19:16.36 | Xolan[EU] | think I'll go with shamen then |
| 19:16.51 | foxlit | WoW-specific might be shamans; search the wiki |
| 19:17.15 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Shaman_Spelling |
| 19:17.31 | nevcairiel | lol there even is a full wiki page about it |
| 19:17.55 | Xolan[EU] | still sounds wierd imo |
| 19:18.00 | Xolan[EU] | but Shamans it is... :) |
| 19:18.22 | zenzelezz | it's shamans because you don't hear about shawomen |
| 19:18.33 | Xolan[EU] | crap, blizz uses Shaman in plural too |
| 19:19.33 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Imrcly (n=tim@74-128-180-191.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:20.16 | zenzelezz | although Wikipedia isn't a bullet proof source, it does state "Accordingly, the only proper plural form of the word is shamans and not shamen, as it is unrelated to the English word "man"." |
| 19:20.31 | Bouvi | I must be losing my mind. Can anyone tell me why this code does the SetAutoLootDefault(0) even when Auto_LootFu.db.profile.AutoParty_On is false. http://wowi.pastey.net/4181 |
| 19:20.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tman (i=tyler@unaffiliated/tman) |
| 19:21.38 | Bouvi | Basically when you join a party and the option is checked it turns off autolooting but it should do nothing if not checked. |
| 19:23.58 | foxlit | Operator precendence? |
| 19:24.14 | Bouvi | ?? |
| 19:24.31 | foxlit | Nah, > is over and anyway. |
| 19:25.43 | Bouvi | Wait a sec.... |
| 19:26.29 | Bouvi | OH GOD KILL ME NOW!!!! I left the Part_No_Autoloot addon running. SCREAM!!!! |
| 19:26.42 | Xolan[EU] | :p |
| 19:27.07 | Bouvi | Of course it kept doing it without it beind checked the other addon was doing it *sigh* |
| 19:28.20 | Bouvi | Perfect now it is not working at all in a party checked or unchecked LOL |
| 19:31.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge warla (i=Darky28@7-164.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:31.41 | warla | heya |
| 19:31.48 | warla | any horde here who play BC beta? |
| 19:32.15 | Xolan[EU] | think I'll let this one rest till tomorrow so I can try it with wow as I go :P |
| 19:34.20 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Xolan[EU] (n=Xolan[EU@216-22-86.521110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 19:35.03 | warla | noone? :-/ |
| 19:35.17 | End | me |
| 19:35.22 | warla | can you do me a favour? |
| 19:35.28 | warla | wont take long :-) |
| 19:35.32 | End | sure... |
| 19:35.48 | warla | when your on your reputation tab |
| 19:35.58 | ckknight | what can be used on Mac OS X to extract MPQs? |
| 19:36.00 | warla | and click on a faction you see the description text |
| 19:36.16 | End | ok |
| 19:36.21 | End | and? |
| 19:36.35 | warla | i need the description text for "silvermkoon city" "thallmar" "mag'har" and "tranquillen" |
| 19:36.54 | warla | http://darky28.dyndns.org/chris/reputation/test.php?p=Darnassus |
| 19:37.04 | warla | for the reputation page i'm working on |
| 19:37.12 | Bouvi | Not sure there is anything on the Mac that can right now but I could be wrong. |
| 19:37.13 | warla | i have all the alliance texts and most horde texts |
| 19:37.46 | End | give me a sec |
| 19:37.49 | warla | k |
| 19:39.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Asheyla (n=ross456@c-68-84-17-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:40.33 | Asheyla | can anyone help me with a UIMenuDropDown code? i have the function created, the menu works perfectly, but i have a tain problem |
| 19:40.35 | Asheyla | *taint |
| 19:41.06 | Asheyla | which i assume is coming from me using UIDOWNDOWN_MENU_LEVEL and UIDROPDOWN_MENU_LEVEL |
| 19:41.37 | Asheyla | yeah, but theyre useful and easy to setup, at least on the level im using them |
| 19:42.06 | Asheyla | is there a way to use them without tainting those variables, without creating my own base code for it? |
| 19:42.11 | Bouvi | If there anything in a fubar addon that would stop this from firing. I took out all the conditions and it still will not work. http://wowi.pastey.net/4184 |
| 19:43.53 | Tierrie | what is the tainting issue? |
| 19:43.55 | Bouvi | Is a fubar addon able to execute that code on an event like my standalone addon? Or do I need an XML file to make this happen with the Fubar? |
| 19:44.00 | Tierrie | is it AbandonPet() or StartDuel()? |
| 19:44.19 | Asheyla | the issue is that after a bit of navigation of my menu, the default blizz dropdowns cant call their protected functions |
| 19:44.28 | Asheyla | like StartDuel and TargetUnit |
| 19:44.35 | Tierrie | TargetUnit is protected |
| 19:44.37 | Tierrie | StartDuel is too |
| 19:44.42 | Asheyla | exactly |
| 19:44.46 | Tierrie | but your navigation menu is typically not protected |
| 19:44.58 | Tierrie | also StartDuel() and AbandonPet() will be unprotected in the next patch |
| 19:45.04 | Tierrie | I don't know about TargetUnit() though |
| 19:45.16 | Asheyla | TU will never be unprotected =] |
| 19:45.34 | Asheyla | and Blizz's dropdown uses it when you right-click someone's name in chat |
| 19:46.28 | Asheyla | im assuming it's because of my usage of the global variables; i cant figure out anything else it could be |
| 19:47.01 | Asheyla | unless UIDropDownMenu_AddButton, or .._Initialize cause taint for all dropdowns, which i doubt |
| 19:47.55 | Asheyla | i was just hoping for a method of creating a taint-free dropdown >< |
| 19:48.11 | Tierrie | the only way you can create a secure anything is through the HookSecureFunction |
| 19:48.20 | Tierrie | and then I don't know very much about it |
| 19:48.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|ZZzz (n=chatzill@host-70-45-116-177.onelinkpr.net) |
| 19:48.34 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|ZZzz] by ChanServ |
| 19:48.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|Univ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-116-177.onelinkpr.net) |
| 19:48.55 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|Univ] by ChanServ |
| 19:49.14 | Asheyla | well, i dont mean creating a secure environment, i mean creating a dropdownmenu that doesnt spread its taint to all the others |
| 19:57.46 | Bouvi | I think it is time to close up the addon shop for me for today. Nothing I am doing is working lol. |
| 19:59.35 | Bouvi | Be back later |
| 20:00.28 | warla | anby horde on BC beta who has the "Mag'har faction and "Tranquillien" |
| 20:01.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Garthnait (n=test@dslb-084-058-177-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:01.35 | Garthnait | Hello @all |
| 20:01.37 | Kirkburn | Tadaa :P Hullo, Garthnait |
| 20:01.53 | Garthnait | hi Kirkburn ^^ |
| 20:02.13 | End | jeez |
| 20:02.17 | Garthnait | So, is sombody here that can help me creating an WoW AddOn? |
| 20:02.43 | End | I put on frost barrier right as a hunter did silencing shot on me |
| 20:03.02 | End | I thought he managed to interupt frost barrier somehow, because the buff didn't come up |
| 20:03.15 | End | turns out, it ate up my barrier immediately it did so much damage |
| 20:03.39 | Garthnait | plz, i need some little help |
| 20:03.50 | zenzelezz | ask in the channel |
| 20:04.09 | Garthnait | i asked some line befor |
| 20:04.54 | Garthnait | or should i post my problem? |
| 20:05.05 | zenzelezz | just state what you're wondering or having trouble with, then everyone who's here can offer insight if they know it |
| 20:05.24 | zenzelezz | much better than asking someone in private |
| 20:05.41 | Garthnait | Okay, i have created an Hello_World Addon for testing |
| 20:06.14 | Garthnait | it worked fine |
| 20:06.21 | Garthnait | now i will add some feature |
| 20:06.59 | Garthnait | i'd like the addon to put out a message wen i do a crit |
| 20:07.23 | Garthnait | who could i do so? |
| 20:07.34 | Garthnait | (sorry for my english) ^^ |
| 20:08.01 | Garthnait | how not who ^^ |
| 20:08.03 | Cairenn | no apology necessary :) |
| 20:08.21 | End | dammit! I managed to bring their flag to our base on my mage |
| 20:08.27 | End | but unfortunately, our flag was not there |
| 20:08.44 | End | unfortunately, it was us, a pug versus a premade |
| 20:09.30 | Cairenn | Garthnait: it seems that *most* folks are away right now |
| 20:09.43 | Cairenn | Garthnait: if you can, just hang in the channel for a while, try asking again later |
| 20:09.54 | End | Garthnait: you'd have to parse the combat log or some such |
| 20:10.15 | zenzelezz | I think UNIT_COMBAT would do |
| 20:10.39 | zenzelezz | if WoWWiki's right, it has an argument for damage type, including critical |
| 20:10.44 | End | well |
| 20:10.46 | End | in that case |
| 20:10.50 | End | it's a lot easier than I thought |
| 20:11.13 | Garthnait | i've tried a fuction like: if (event == "COMBATHITCRITSELFOTHER") then |
| 20:11.13 | Garthnait | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("|c00ff8000[My Addon] |c0000BFFFHere Text!"); |
| 20:11.13 | Garthnait | end |
| 20:11.27 | Garthnait | but it doesnt work |
| 20:11.53 | End | try if event == "UNIT_COMBAT" |
| 20:11.58 | End | and don't forget to register the event |
| 20:12.16 | Garthnait | do i have to register it in the .xml? |
| 20:12.22 | End | although, you'd have to check if arg3 == "CRITICAL" or something |
| 20:12.23 | End | no |
| 20:12.26 | End | you don't have to |
| 20:12.39 | Garthnait | i register it in the function it selfs? |
| 20:12.44 | zenzelezz | and probably check if arg1 == player, unless you want it to fire for enemies too |
| 20:13.49 | End | well |
| 20:13.49 | End | you are creating the frame in xml, right? |
| 20:13.49 | Garthnait | i have: |
| 20:14.00 | Garthnait | <Frame name="MyAddon"> |
| 20:14.39 | End | do you have a MyAddon_OnLoad() function? |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | <Scripts> |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | <OnLoad> |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | MyAdon_Welcome_OnLoad(); |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | MyAdon_SlashCommand_OnLoad(); |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | MyAdon_OnEvent(); |
| 20:14.40 | Garthnait | </OnLoad> |
| 20:14.42 | Garthnait | </Scripts> |
| 20:14.44 | Garthnait | </Frame> |
| 20:14.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kodewulf_ (n=kodewulf@220-253-23-173.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 20:15.12 | Garthnait | in the OnEvent i'd like to put the function |
| 20:16.01 | foxlit | if (event == "COMBATHITCRITSELFOTHER") then won't work |
| 20:16.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 20:16.22 | foxlit | COMBATHITCRITSELFOTHER isn't an event name, so that block will never trigger. |
| 20:16.29 | Garthnait | okay |
| 20:16.36 | Garthnait | how do i make it? |
| 20:17.01 | Corrodias | i'm concerned that you've chosen to put a function call named something _OnEvent() in the OnLoad section |
| 20:17.15 | foxlit | That too. |
| 20:17.41 | Garthnait | i have to delete line MyAdon_OnEvent(); ? |
| 20:17.46 | foxlit | Should be inside <OnEvent></Onevent> |
| 20:17.47 | End | no, you have to move it |
| 20:17.53 | End | to where foxlit just said |
| 20:17.54 | Garthnait | oh okay |
| 20:17.56 | foxlit | s/event/Event/ |
| 20:18.13 | Corrodias | not necessarily, but the fact that you named it _OnEvent suggests that you actually have event-handling code in it, and then it should be inside OnEvent tags instead of OnLoad ones as they said |
| 20:18.21 | Sstixrud | I am looking at the code in another addon and I am wondering if anyone knows why it would do: MyAddonData[playerName] = { instead of just: MyAddonData = { |
| 20:18.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.43 | foxlit | Because it wants to store information per-character |
| 20:19.04 | Garthnait | so i've moved it to OnEvent Tag in the XML |
| 20:19.05 | Sstixrud | aww, I thought that was handled in the toc file |
| 20:19.21 | foxlit | While ## SavedVariablesPerCharacter: ... work like you'd expect, they're a bit inconvinient. |
| 20:19.28 | Garthnait | how does the function now looks like? |
| 20:19.29 | Corrodias | you can load the information from other characters in the game, this way |
| 20:19.35 | Sstixrud | I see |
| 20:19.46 | foxlit | Since you can't access them unless you're playing on that character, and some addons may wish to allow you to change profiles. |
| 20:20.00 | Sstixrud | fair enough, makes perfect sense now |
| 20:20.22 | foxlit | Garthnait: you need to find which event you'll be watching (either combat log messages or something else), register it and handle it |
| 20:20.44 | Garthnait | so whre could i find it? |
| 20:20.56 | amro | http://www.wowwiki.com/Events_%28API%29 |
| 20:21.05 | Sstixrud | Anyone know the easiest way to change a table value via a custom ui and have it take affect right then (and also save it to MyAddonData)? |
| 20:21.13 | amro | you need to look in the Combat section |
| 20:21.39 | amro | Sstixrud: what do you mean by take effect? |
| 20:21.46 | Garthnait | looks like "CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS" |
| 20:21.57 | amro | then register for that |
| 20:22.07 | amro | check for it, and check for the appropriate args |
| 20:22.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-10874ap.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:22.32 | Corrodias | well, Sstixrud, your changes to the table take effect immediately, but the variables are not saved to disk until the user reloads his UI |
| 20:22.35 | Sstixrud | Well if I pop up a config window with a slider that configures how many buttons to display.. I want it to change the default button num value set in MyAddonData table and also increase/decrease the number of buttons displayed |
| 20:22.41 | Corrodias | or exits the game |
| 20:22.53 | Garthnait | can you link me where i can read how to register? |
| 20:23.13 | amro | http://www.wowwiki.com/Events_%28API%29 |
| 20:23.31 | Garthnait | oh sorry lokks like im blind ^^ |
| 20:23.34 | amro | Sstixrud: making it apply the changes depends on your addon really |
| 20:23.58 | amro | whatever function changes the values should also update whatever it affects |
| 20:24.31 | Sstixrud | well I am modding someone elses addon and its my first expereince with wow/lua so I am in the process of figuring that out heh |
| 20:24.55 | Sstixrud | sigh, the addon I am using has one large OnEvent function and 3 tiny ones :) |
| 20:25.23 | foxlit | Meh, OnEvent handlers :P |
| 20:25.24 | Sstixrud | other mods that I have looked at who update values based on user input generally have more functions broken out for these things |
| 20:25.24 | Garthnait | so i think in the line this:RegisterEvent("ADDON_LOADED"); i write "CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS" instead of "ADDON_LOADED" right? |
| 20:25.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xolan[EU] (n=Xolan[EU@216-22-86.521110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 20:25.37 | amro | yeah |
| 20:25.38 | foxlit | yes |
| 20:25.44 | Garthnait | hey im good :P |
| 20:25.51 | amro | keep it up :) |
| 20:26.15 | Garthnait | so whre do i put the "arg1" in place? |
| 20:26.31 | amro | after you check for event==... |
| 20:26.38 | amro | check for arg1 etc |
| 20:27.25 | amro | oh |
| 20:27.36 | amro | you're going to have to parse the arg |
| 20:27.42 | Garthnait | mom plz |
| 20:27.46 | amro | since it returns the chat msg, like "you hit x for y" |
| 20:27.50 | Garthnait | i've a problem right now ^^ |
| 20:28.05 | Corrodias | i think what amro is saying is that WoW sets the value of the global variable 'arg1' when the event occurs |
| 20:28.12 | Corrodias | so you can reference it |
| 20:28.14 | Sstixrud | Anyone willing to take a look at a two page addon and advise how best to go about creating a config ui that updates button/frame elements in real time? |
| 20:28.24 | Corrodias | i don't know if it works that way; i'm just translating into noob-speak |
| 20:28.40 | foxlit | Link, we'll just ignore it if it's too boring. |
| 20:28.47 | Sstixrud | heh |
| 20:28.50 | foxlit | s/'s/is |
| 20:28.53 | Garthnait | so first i have: |
| 20:28.53 | Garthnait | function MyAddOn_MainFrame_OnLoad() |
| 20:28.53 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:28.53 | Garthnait | end |
| 20:28.55 | foxlit | Dang. |
| 20:29.04 | amro | Garthnait: use "COMBAT_TEXT_UPDATE" |
| 20:29.12 | Sstixrud | is there a link bot around here? |
| 20:29.13 | amro | its much easier to check for crits that way |
| 20:29.14 | Garthnait | instead of? |
| 20:29.23 | amro | instead of CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS |
| 20:29.28 | Cairenn | anything longer than a couple lines, please use http://wowi.pastey.net/ (just reminding, not upset) |
| 20:29.30 | amro | check for arg1=="DAMAGE_CRIT" |
| 20:29.34 | zenzelezz | link bot? |
| 20:29.34 | amro | and arg2 > 0 |
| 20:29.53 | Garthnait | so: |
| 20:29.54 | Garthnait | function MyAddOn_MainFrame_OnLoad() |
| 20:29.54 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.54 | Garthnait | end |
| 20:30.14 | Garthnait | then vcomes: |
| 20:30.14 | Garthnait | function MyAddOn_MainFrame_OnEvent() |
| 20:30.14 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.14 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.14 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.15 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.16 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.18 | Garthnait | end |
| 20:30.23 | amro | Garthnait: pastebin it.. |
| 20:30.32 | Garthnait | ?? |
| 20:30.46 | Cairenn | the link I just gave |
| 20:30.48 | amro | paste it in http://wowi.pastey.net/ instead of here, next time |
| 20:30.48 | foxlit | ~pastey |
| 20:30.50 | purl | hmm... pastey is the place we like to have errors, diffs, and any large chunks of text sent. http://norganna.pastey.net Insert the text, press the 'Paste' button, and post the resulting URL in here. |
| 20:31.00 | Garthnait | ah ^^ |
| 20:31.09 | Corrodias | norganna.pastey? what is this, a coup? |
| 20:31.15 | Sstixrud | http://wowi.pastey.net/4187 |
| 20:31.24 | foxlit | Back-against-the-wall, Corrodias. This is a coup. |
| 20:31.33 | Cairenn | it's norg's that provides all of the *.pastey.net addies |
| 20:31.33 | Sstixrud | pastey is very cool |
| 20:31.36 | Corrodias | my ass is too sexy to hide it against a wall |
| 20:31.50 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4188 |
| 20:31.52 | amro | Garthnait: give me a sec |
| 20:33.20 | amro | http://wowi.pastey.net/4189 |
| 20:33.31 | amro | also, you can't check who you crit with this event |
| 20:33.39 | foxlit | Sstixrud : frame:ClearAllPoints(); frame:SetPoint("TOPLEFT", defaultParent "defaultPoint", defaultXoffset, defaultYoffset) |
| 20:33.48 | amro | so if that is important, you'll have to use CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS |
| 20:33.53 | Garthnait | line 9 and 10 can i ignore and let it of right? |
| 20:34.04 | amro | yes |
| 20:34.12 | Garthnait | thanks i copy |
| 20:34.46 | amro | lazy blizz... they added COMBAT_TEXT for their SCT |
| 20:34.46 | Sstixrud | foxlit I am not sure I follow |
| 20:35.10 | Garthnait | so and now what have i correctly to do in the xml? |
| 20:35.36 | amro | post your xml file on pastey |
| 20:35.41 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4190 |
| 20:35.53 | foxlit | You want to manually move the frames around. |
| 20:36.16 | foxlit | Not set some setting and have the addon automatically apply it. That usually doesn't work that way. |
| 20:36.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge bleetah (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 20:37.07 | foxlit | And as far as I can tell, the position storage there is actually handled by WoW, and not the addon. |
| 20:37.13 | Sstixrud | Hmm in other mods I have seen simple /myaddon config then the user moves some sliders, clicks some check buttons and perhaps types in some numbers |
| 20:37.18 | amro | Garthnait: What's in GodLike_Welcome_OnLoad()? |
| 20:37.32 | Garthnait | mom i post my full lua |
| 20:37.36 | amro | (note: pick the highlighting next time on pastey :) ) |
| 20:37.53 | foxlit | Code <=> UI |
| 20:38.19 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4193 |
| 20:38.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Neuro_Medivh (n=Neuro@cpe-76-187-75-113.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 20:38.48 | foxlit | Garth: set language for free highlighting :) |
| 20:39.03 | Sstixrud | foxlit - sorry, what part of the code was your example targetting? |
| 20:39.17 | Garthnait | ? where? |
| 20:39.31 | foxlit | -- TODO: implement resetting position of bars to default |
| 20:39.36 | foxlit | on pastey :) |
| 20:39.48 | Garthnait | there is no such language |
| 20:40.02 | foxlit | The very first dropdown is the language your code is in, you can pick "LUA" or "XML", for example. |
| 20:40.11 | Garthnait | ah okay |
| 20:40.16 | Garthnait | sorry for that ^^ |
| 20:40.20 | Garthnait | im a really noob |
| 20:40.27 | Sstixrud | aww, ya this is someone elses addon I was going to just remove that command. I am interested in displaying a config ui frame where the user can change some of the values at the top of the lua script (i.e. PBCFG) |
| 20:40.33 | Fisker- | so ckknight your mac supports 7zip? |
| 20:41.00 | ckknight | I guess so |
| 20:41.02 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4194 |
| 20:41.05 | Garthnait | so better? |
| 20:41.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ViRii[K] (n=tyler@cpe-24-24-244-11.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:41.54 | amro | Garthnait: i can set the lang when viewing |
| 20:42.03 | Garthnait | ah okay ^^ |
| 20:42.39 | amro | you had a function you never called |
| 20:42.47 | Garthnait | ? |
| 20:42.54 | amro | 1sec |
| 20:43.01 | amro | http://wowi.pastey.net/4196 |
| 20:43.08 | Garthnait | i thank you gys so much |
| 20:43.11 | amro | i removed GodLike_OnLoad() |
| 20:43.21 | amro | and put its code in GodLike_Welcome_OnLoad() |
| 20:43.27 | amro | since that's what you were calling from your XML file |
| 20:44.17 | Garthnait | ah okay |
| 20:44.49 | Garthnait | now i have to do the message when crittet in part of "then" right? |
| 20:44.58 | amro | yep |
| 20:45.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge gnor (n=jaydee@cpe-76-173-212-2.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:45.32 | warla | http://darky28.dyndns.org/chris/reputation/test.php <-- working on a reputation webpage :-) how ya like the design so far? |
| 20:46.11 | Corrodias | looks pretty good, and i hope you get some good information for it |
| 20:46.20 | warla | i have 20 faction at exalted |
| 20:46.28 | warla | i'm what people call a "rep -whore" |
| 20:46.49 | Garthnait | so right? http://wowi.pastey.net/4197 |
| 20:47.04 | End | what are you, a human? |
| 20:47.11 | warla | nope |
| 20:47.12 | warla | gnome |
| 20:47.14 | Xolan[EU] | looks great warla, though the repeating border pattern on the right hand box is somewhat iffy |
| 20:47.18 | amro | warla: what will you do with wowledgebase? |
| 20:47.23 | End | jeez |
| 20:47.46 | warla | i'll release those scripts soon so guilds can use it on their webpages |
| 20:47.50 | ViRii[K] | What would I have to do to start a timer like CCWatch or something like that? |
| 20:47.54 | ViRii[K] | A visual timer that is |
| 20:47.56 | amro | sweet |
| 20:48.04 | amro | Garthnait: I just noticed your color tags are messed up |
| 20:48.16 | amro | |c00ff8000[GodLike] should be |c00ff8000 [GodLike]|r |
| 20:49.02 | Garthnait | y? |
| 20:49.18 | amro | because it doens't work like Quake color tags :) |
| 20:49.23 | amro | you need to close em with |r |
| 20:49.30 | amro | and you need a space between the hex and the actual text |
| 20:49.37 | Garthnait | oh ive tested it ingame and it funks |
| 20:49.48 | amro | does it? weird |
| 20:49.54 | amro | it used to blow up in my face in WC3 |
| 20:50.00 | amro | i guess they changed it |
| 20:50.08 | Garthnait | i taste it with your changes ^^ |
| 20:50.34 | Garthnait | So i'm INGame to test it ^^ |
| 20:50.54 | amro | you know you can use /console reloadui to quickly test changes? |
| 20:51.06 | haste | /rl is faster |
| 20:51.18 | haste | and it's most likely defined already |
| 20:51.46 | Garthnait | hmm, now message |
| 20:52.18 | amro | last i checked, /rl wasn't on my base wow |
| 20:52.41 | Garthnait | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.42 | amro | but that was before 2.0 |
| 20:52.49 | amro | yrd |
| 20:52.52 | amro | yes* |
| 20:52.58 | amro | you should check for > 0 for testing |
| 20:53.01 | Corrodias | /rl doesn't exist in the default UI. |
| 20:53.17 | warla | i still need horde who have mag'thar faction and tranquillien |
| 20:53.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [1]gnorlish (n=jaydee@cpe-76-173-212-2.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:53.37 | Corrodias | i've never heard of either |
| 20:53.43 | warla | BC beta factions |
| 20:53.58 | warla | thrallmar and silvermoon i got |
| 20:54.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=mjgoosse@64.193.93.197) |
| 20:54.13 | Garthnait | k, momno message |
| 20:54.18 | Garthnait | argh |
| 20:54.22 | Garthnait | no message |
| 20:55.46 | amro | hm |
| 20:55.56 | amro | does your slash command work? |
| 20:56.00 | Garthnait | yes |
| 20:56.12 | amro | can you repaste your entire .lua as it is now? |
| 20:56.19 | Garthnait | mom plz |
| 20:56.59 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4198 |
| 20:56.59 | amro | i just realized you mean moment |
| 20:57.32 | Garthnait | mom = moment ^^ |
| 20:58.08 | Corrodias | i thought he was asking for your mother |
| 20:58.14 | Garthnait | lol |
| 20:58.21 | amro | okay then, 1 mom please |
| 20:58.23 | Garthnait | then i write mum ^^ |
| 21:00.09 | Xolan[EU] | this might sound stupid but how do I make my own portal on wowinterface? |
| 21:00.22 | amro | must be your XML file, can you paste that/ |
| 21:00.28 | Garthnait | mom |
| 21:00.33 | Corrodias | Cairenn probably has to like you enough |
| 21:00.55 | Xolan[EU] | aha |
| 21:01.00 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4199 |
| 21:01.00 | Cairenn | as soon as you've got a mod in our database, you should be able to enable your portal |
| 21:01.05 | Xolan[EU] | kk |
| 21:01.06 | End | Xolan[EU]: you hit a checkbox or something |
| 21:01.18 | Corrodias | oh |
| 21:01.21 | Cairenn | Xolan[EU]: there should be an option on the front page, left hand side menu "enable portal" |
| 21:01.23 | Cairenn | lol |
| 21:01.32 | Corrodias | i guess most people just don't |
| 21:02.29 | Xolan[EU] | that's just available once you've uploaded a mod then? |
| 21:02.40 | Cairenn | aye |
| 21:02.50 | Xolan[EU] | right, no wonder I couldn't find anything then lol |
| 21:02.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dhraga_ (n=chatzill@213-64-237-101-o871.telia.com) |
| 21:02.55 | Sstixrud | newbie question... why do some addon authors often use function name(self) often while others never do |
| 21:03.45 | End | if name is on a table, then you could do table:name() |
| 21:03.52 | End | and it'd fill in self with the table |
| 21:04.19 | Sstixrud | ya I see that, this one mode does self:Register while the other does this:Register |
| 21:04.26 | Sstixrud | mode = mod |
| 21:04.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kodewulf__ (n=kodewulf@220-253-23-173.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 21:04.39 | Garthnait | test |
| 21:04.43 | Garthnait | hmm |
| 21:04.53 | amro | Garthnait: the event is COMBAT_TEXT |
| 21:05.03 | amro | er |
| 21:05.04 | amro | nevermind |
| 21:05.46 | Corrodias | from what i understand, Sstixrud, in WoW, "this" usually refers to the frame or frame element that called the function |
| 21:06.03 | Corrodias | while self... doesn't. i'm not too clear on that, but i'm hoping someone will correct me. |
| 21:06.05 | End | this is a global set by WoW for the frame script handlers |
| 21:06.24 | Sstixrud | aww, so in many cases declaring a arg for a function isn't needed if the "this" functionality is sufficent? |
| 21:06.32 | Corrodias | i often get explanations by saying the wrong thing and then letting someone else say the right thing |
| 21:06.47 | clad|nap | Corrodias: self now does as well |
| 21:07.12 | End | although |
| 21:07.18 | End | self is a local that gets passed to the function |
| 21:07.19 | cladhaire | Prior to the 2.0.1 patch, the game sets the global variable "this" to refer to the frame which triggered the handler script, and no varaibles arguments were passed to the handling function |
| 21:07.21 | End | something new for 2.0 |
| 21:07.32 | cladhaire | in 2.0.1, self is passed as the first local argument to the handling function |
| 21:08.15 | amro | Garthnait: try changing > 0 to < 0 |
| 21:08.31 | Garthnait | i test |
| 21:08.36 | cladhaire | random mid-day naps with no food are fun! |
| 21:08.37 | Garthnait | one sek ^^ |
| 21:08.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nymbia (n=nymbia@67-40-142-199.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 21:09.22 | JoshBorke | mmmw mid day naps :-) |
| 21:09.27 | Garthnait | to much addons ^^ loading screen takes a while ^^ |
| 21:09.31 | Sstixrud | If Blizzard loved me they would provide a Python API for addons ;) |
| 21:09.48 | amro | Garthnait: I suggest you disable unneeded addons when testing yours |
| 21:09.53 | End | woot, cap'd a flag on my mage |
| 21:10.02 | End | screw low survability! |
| 21:10.02 | Garthnait | no message at all |
| 21:10.04 | cladhaire | Sstixrud: ... why? |
| 21:10.09 | cladhaire | heh |
| 21:10.14 | amro | Garthnait: sure you're critting? |
| 21:10.23 | Garthnait | oh yes ^^ |
| 21:10.32 | Sstixrud | heh, well python's syntax fits me better I guess :) |
| 21:10.38 | Garthnait | my arcane shot does no 1,3K damage noncrit ^^ |
| 21:11.01 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 21:11.17 | Xolan[EU] | they should just allow low-level scripting :p |
| 21:11.31 | Sstixrud | I get tripped up reading lua code |
| 21:11.40 | Sstixrud | Xol ASM? :) |
| 21:11.46 | cladhaire | O.o |
| 21:11.48 | Xolan[EU] | lol |
| 21:11.53 | cladhaire | lua is the perfect language for what they're doing =) |
| 21:11.57 | Xolan[EU] | yep |
| 21:12.08 | Xolan[EU] | somewhat wierd, but definately powerfull |
| 21:12.11 | cladhaire | There's a reason adobe uses similar mechanisms for 50% of their codebase |
| 21:12.41 | Sstixrud | I need to look into ruby |
| 21:12.56 | amro | Garthnait: try http://wowi.pastey.net/4200 |
| 21:12.57 | Xolan[EU] | I used ruby eariler with rpgmakerxp |
| 21:12.58 | amro | for debugging |
| 21:13.10 | Sstixrud | how did you like it? |
| 21:13.23 | amro | [22:11] <cladhaire> lua is the perfect language for what they're doing =) |
| 21:13.26 | amro | truth ^ |
| 21:13.32 | Sstixrud | I hear it is even cleaner than python but lacking the library |
| 21:13.44 | amro | lua is the best language for embedding |
| 21:13.56 | amro | Ruby has way too much syntatic sugar |
| 21:14.07 | cladhaire | its not "the best. |
| 21:14.23 | cladhaire | but it is one of the sole drivers in its design process =) |
| 21:14.28 | cladhaire | which makes it incredibly well suited for embedding =) |
| 21:14.37 | amro | yeah |
| 21:14.37 | cladhaire | saying somethign else just so i can have three smileys =) |
| 21:14.44 | Sstixrud | hah |
| 21:14.49 | JoshBorke | =] =] =] |
| 21:15.13 | amro | ive worked with the C APIs for Ruby, Python, and Lua, and i've gotta say lua just owns |
| 21:15.26 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Xolan[EU] (n=Xolan[EU@216-22-86.521110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 21:15.33 | amro | though it took a bit to grasp how it worked with metatables |
| 21:16.40 | Garthnait | i go testing |
| 21:16.59 | xsarpedon | Is there a way to call a function from a string in Lua? |
| 21:17.31 | cladhaire | yes |
| 21:17.35 | amro | dostring()? |
| 21:17.36 | cladhaire | depends on what you actually mean by that =) |
| 21:18.03 | Garthnait | amro: there is an error in my B:LUA |
| 21:18.03 | xsarpedon | I mean you have local x="getData"; then something to callFunction(x); |
| 21:18.20 | amro | what error? |
| 21:18.24 | cladhaire | you mean x gets the name of a functopin |
| 21:18.28 | cladhaire | and you can to call said function? |
| 21:18.38 | cladhaire | then you can use getglobal(x) to get the function name, then call it |
| 21:18.40 | amro | dostring(x.."()") |
| 21:18.42 | Garthnait | Encountered "DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME" at line 20, column 9 |
| 21:18.54 | Corrodias | there has to be, but i don't know what it is. LuaSlinger lets you execute code in-game. |
| 21:19.18 | foxlit | RunScript("string") |
| 21:19.18 | foxlit | loadstring(something?) |
| 21:19.18 | cladhaire | i'm still trying to understadn what he's asking |
| 21:19.33 | cladhaire | but if you have a string, and you want to make a lua function otu of it its local fun = loadstring("Some string") |
| 21:19.34 | Cide | loadstring creates a function closure which is probably not what you want in that case |
| 21:19.35 | cladhaire | you can then pcall it |
| 21:19.40 | Garthnait | it semms like one END was to much |
| 21:19.53 | End | there can never be too many of me |
| 21:19.54 | xsarpedon | I think dostring will work thanks :P |
| 21:19.58 | Cide | if you have the name of the function you can use getglobal, like cladhaire said |
| 21:19.58 | Garthnait | lol |
| 21:20.09 | cladhaire | i'm still looking for a problem statement =) |
| 21:20.17 | amro | Garthnait: i forgot a then |
| 21:20.22 | amro | add it |
| 21:20.22 | xsarpedon | Could you give me an example of using get global to call the function if you have it's name? |
| 21:20.32 | Garthnait | oh i see |
| 21:20.37 | Cide | xsarpedon: local name = "print"; getglobal(name)("hello") |
| 21:20.41 | Cide | prints "hello" |
| 21:20.52 | End | assuming you have a print function |
| 21:20.58 | End | :P |
| 21:21.07 | xsarpedon | Ok, thanks :) |
| 21:21.48 | amro | print exists, but doens't do anything |
| 21:21.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|Univ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-116-177.onelinkpr.net) |
| 21:21.55 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|Univ] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.02 | End | it doesn't exist for me |
| 21:22.23 | amro | i remember leaving it from earlier testing code and i didn't get any errors |
| 21:22.30 | End | well |
| 21:22.38 | Garthnait | amro: no message at all |
| 21:22.45 | End | attempt to call global 'print' (a nil value) |
| 21:23.07 | End | somehow, trying to call print() didn't work |
| 21:23.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|ZZzz (n=chatzill@host-70-45-116-177.onelinkpr.net) |
| 21:23.20 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|ZZzz] by ChanServ |
| 21:23.22 | Cide | a wow-style print would be: function print(...) local message = ""; for i = 1, select('#', ...) do message = message .. tostring(selecti, ...)) .. " " end ChatFrame1:AddMessage(print) end |
| 21:23.22 | amro | maybe it was in the code but never got called? i do remember it in my code somewhere |
| 21:23.29 | End | maybe |
| 21:23.38 | End | but there's no such global, at least on my end :P |
| 21:24.02 | End | Cide: don't forget, each arg is seperated by tabs |
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| 21:24.21 | Cide | End: replace " " with whatever you want |
| 21:24.30 | Cide | python's print uses space, if I remember correctly |
| 21:24.31 | End | oh, I didn't see the " " :P |
| 21:24.41 | End | but lua's print -is- seperated by tabs |
| 21:24.48 | End | actually, maybe it's tab space |
| 21:24.50 | End | or something |
| 21:25.13 | End | (space tab would be better I suppose) |
| 21:25.22 | End | (ok, too much pondering) |
| 21:25.31 | amro | Garthnait: http://wowi.pastey.net/4201 |
| 21:25.40 | cladhaire | Cide: I'd avoid the multiple concatenations with a string.rep, and use ah elper function to tostring() all my args =) |
| 21:26.24 | Cide | cladhaire: I'm sure it could be optimized |
| 21:26.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|Univ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-116-177.onelinkpr.net) |
| 21:26.35 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MentalPower|Univ] by ChanServ |
| 21:26.40 | MentalPower|Bath | Pssh.. you wouldn't know anything about optimization. |
| 21:27.01 | Garthnait | hey it does work |
| 21:27.12 | End | your face wouldn't know any.... |
| 21:27.12 | Garthnait | Type: Mana |
| 21:27.15 | MentalPower | err... what are you doing using my... oh, its clad |
| 21:27.28 | MentalPower|Bath | You need to calm down on the nick changes my friend! |
| 21:27.37 | amro | Garthnait: keep playing, see if DAMAGE_CRIT ever comes up |
| 21:27.37 | End | like...totally...chill |
| 21:27.45 | amro | or better yet, check what comes up when you crit |
| 21:27.52 | MentalPower | I have two PC's and something is resetting the connections |
| 21:27.58 | cladhaire | boo for that |
| 21:28.06 | cladhaire | okay.. shower time |
| 21:28.07 | cladhaire | then dinner |
| 21:28.10 | cladhaire | the basketball |
| 21:28.27 | Garthnait | amro: the message appears everytime i hit |
| 21:29.12 | amro | yes, i know |
| 21:29.17 | Garthnait | it doesnt matter if crit or normal hit |
| 21:29.18 | amro | but what appears when you crit? |
| 21:29.24 | amro | it should say Type: something |
| 21:29.37 | Garthnait | no, the same |
| 21:29.44 | amro | the same what? |
| 21:29.55 | amro | i mean, what's the message you keep getting? |
| 21:30.11 | Garthnait | thts the last code you send me |
| 21:30.17 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4201 |
| 21:30.29 | Garthnait | Type: Mana |
| 21:31.03 | amro | that's not right |
| 21:31.19 | amro | sorry i dont have wow on this machine to investigate |
| 21:33.50 | Garthnait | Oh, the message comes from my black grasp of the destroyer when i leech mana |
| 21:34.14 | Garthnait | not from hitin or criting |
| 21:34.19 | amro | well, good luck with that, i need to go eat |
| 21:34.20 | amro | then sleep |
| 21:34.23 | Garthnait | i tested it without them |
| 21:34.36 | amro | yes, because you're displaying ALL COMBAT_TEXT_UPDATE events |
| 21:34.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xolan[EU] (n=Xolan[EU@216-22-86.521110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 21:34.41 | Garthnait | thanks so long |
| 21:34.46 | amro | later |
| 21:40.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bouvi (n=Bouvi@c-68-34-223-122.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge VII|Beherit (n=marcoc@p509152EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:54.27 | sylvanaar | ~sylvanaar |
| 21:54.28 | purl | ACTION expires |
| 21:54.33 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 21:54.36 | sylvanaar | same ol purl |
| 21:55.10 | sylvanaar | when i am having a bad day: |
| 21:55.14 | sylvanaar | ~luaser |
| 21:55.16 | purl | methinks luaser is "Just tell me what i want to know so I dont have to waste my time, just yours" |
| 21:56.01 | sylvanaar | or |
| 21:56.04 | sylvanaar | ~bugz |
| 21:56.06 | purl | bugz is, like, "Does this happen on the lastest version? What version are you using?" |
| 21:56.28 | Garthnait|afk | argh, y won't it work |
| 21:56.50 | JoshBorke | ~bugs |
| 21:57.06 | JoshBorke | oooo, nifty |
| 21:57.48 | sylvanaar | lol i need an answerbot |
| 21:57.58 | sylvanaar | that will impersonate me |
| 21:58.48 | sylvanaar | "..will you.." - "no" |
| 21:58.59 | sylvanaar | "..is it possible to.." - "no" |
| 21:59.14 | sylvanaar | "how do i make.." - "no" |
| 21:59.50 | nevcairiel | a bot that always says no |
| 21:59.51 | nevcairiel | thats easy |
| 22:00.18 | Tuller | hrm, wonder what would happen if I switched from having the shift + x paging to just simply modifier down quickpaging |
| 22:01.36 | Corrodias | modifier? |
| 22:01.57 | Corrodias | i believe my action bars switch manually with shift+scrollwheel and i despise it |
| 22:02.02 | Corrodias | i need to figure out something else |
| 22:03.08 | Tuller | that is, I wonder how many people will yell at me if I take away shift + number and shift + mousewheel paging and replace it with alt down, ctrl down, shift down |
| 22:04.09 | Corrodias | take away? you manage an addon, i take it? |
| 22:04.20 | Tuller | yes |
| 22:04.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Asheyla (n=ross456@c-68-84-17-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 22:04.31 | Corrodias | well, i would be annoyed if one of my combat key bindings required me to let go of the mouse |
| 22:04.43 | Corrodias | so anything+down is a very bad idea |
| 22:04.49 | Asheyla | well i finally figured out my uidropdownmenu taint issue ^^ |
| 22:05.03 | Corrodias | "down" being the down arrow key, which is what i'm assuming you mean |
| 22:05.20 | Tuller | no, I mean pageonpress |
| 22:05.34 | Tuller | aka, press your alt key and you switch pages, release and it goes back |
| 22:05.40 | Asheyla | Would you consider it a bug, if addons causing the dynamic creation of menu levels results in taint for every single dropdownmenu? including blizz ones. |
| 22:05.49 | Corrodias | that i'd like. control+alt, please. |
| 22:05.53 | Corrodias | ;) |
| 22:07.04 | sylvanaar | ~sylvanaar |
| 22:07.05 | purl | ACTION screams No! |
| 22:07.07 | Corrodias | i don't know what menu levels are. and now i'm going to go away for a while! |
| 22:07.26 | Asheyla | menu levels in UIDropDownMenus |
| 22:07.45 | Asheyla | like how you can nest menus - one menu leading to another |
| 22:07.53 | Corrodias | LALALA IM NOT LISTENING |
| 22:08.04 | Asheyla | the default interface defines 2 and provides a function to create more |
| 22:08.08 | Tuller | I don't believe in the UI's dropdown menus :) |
| 22:08.15 | sylvanaar | ~luaser |
| 22:08.16 | purl | methinks luaser is "Just tell me what i want to know so I dont have to waste my time, just yours" |
| 22:08.23 | Asheyla | then what's a viable alternative |
| 22:08.37 | Corrodias | he's going to say Ace! hit the deck! |
| 22:08.49 | Asheyla | never! |
| 22:09.08 | Tuller | dewdrop might be a viable alternative, if you really want those dropdowns |
| 22:09.17 | Tuller | are you sure its broken in 2.0.3? |
| 22:09.17 | Asheyla | id sooner copy the source and change all the variables to my own =] |
| 22:09.28 | Asheyla | i tested it on beta servers 5 mins ago |
| 22:10.27 | Asheyla | i made a UIDropDownMenu that creates an endless menu; once the 3rd one opens I can no longer see "Target" when I right-click someone's name in chat |
| 22:10.29 | Tuller | figure out how to make your addon need only the blizzard provided amount of levels is the other alternative :) |
| 22:10.49 | Asheyla | but mine uses 5 levels D= |
| 22:11.12 | Tuller | eew :P |
| 22:11.36 | Asheyla | BUT if I use FloatingChatFrame to create the 3rd level for me |
| 22:11.54 | Asheyla | the taint doesnt occur until my endless menu opens the 4th level |
| 22:12.00 | Asheyla | so thats why i know it's that. |
| 22:12.45 | Asheyla | if i wanted to use only 2 levels id have to create some horrid code of dynamic frame-menu creation |
| 22:12.49 | Asheyla | itd be a nightmare |
| 22:13.10 | Asheyla | dewdrop is what |
| 22:13.14 | Asheyla | an ace plugin? |
| 22:13.18 | JoshBorke | Asheyla: i know that Dewdrop creates menus |
| 22:13.25 | JoshBorke | Asheyla: Dewdrop is an ace library |
| 22:13.46 | Asheyla | my addon isn't ACE'd right now |
| 22:13.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Imrcly (n=tim@74-128-180-191.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:14.02 | Asheyla | so, short of simply stealing code from it... |
| 22:14.02 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Imrcly (n=tim@74-128-180-191.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:14.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge VoidRaider|sleep (i=VoidRaid@bzq-84-110-213-180.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:14.55 | JoshBorke | Asheyla: you could download Dewdrop-1.x which doesn't require ace |
| 22:14.59 | Garthnait|afk | Anybody else have an idea to help me with my AddOn? |
| 22:15.18 | Asheyla | that could work |
| 22:15.33 | Asheyla | still reluctant on making a dependency though |
| 22:15.34 | JoshBorke | it's what i do :-D |
| 22:15.39 | JoshBorke | it's embeddable |
| 22:15.43 | Asheyla | ah |
| 22:16.14 | Asheyla | so, dare i ask, whats the difference in doing that and simply copying UIDropDownMenu.lua from FrameXML and changing all the variables to my own? =] |
| 22:16.59 | Asheyla | thatd actually be nice, since i could make some changes to the menus that i cant do normally |
| 22:17.57 | Tuller | I never really looked at the dropdown menu code, so I have no idea |
| 22:18.06 | Tuller | well, looked deeply |
| 22:19.21 | Asheyla | it's pretty interesting actually |
| 22:19.25 | Tuller | I do know dewdrop has some added functionality, like sliders and stuff |
| 22:19.32 | Tuller | at least things I think are added |
| 22:19.47 | Asheyla | it reminds me a lot of the Secure Templates of 2.0 |
| 22:19.58 | Asheyla | hm, that'd be nice |
| 22:20.03 | Garthnait|afk | hmm, the "COMBAT_TEXT_UPDATE" wont really work as i intended |
| 22:20.09 | Tuller | and behold my terrible menu :) http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=menudt1.jpg |
| 22:20.31 | Tuller | aka, I got lazy and need a GUI for state options |
| 22:20.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:20.55 | Asheyla | garth, how so? |
| 22:20.57 | Garthnait|afk | looks like bongos ^^ |
| 22:21.02 | Asheyla | yeah it does |
| 22:21.02 | Tuller | it is :P |
| 22:21.04 | Asheyla | oh |
| 22:21.07 | Asheyla | hah |
| 22:21.21 | Tuller | also, you can ask ckknight about dewdrop stuff |
| 22:21.21 | Garthnait|afk | here my lua |
| 22:21.23 | Garthnait|afk | http://wowi.pastey.net/4205?lang=lua |
| 22:21.57 | Garthnait|afk | line 17 to 21 |
| 22:22.42 | Tuller | Garthnait|afk: what's it not doing? |
| 22:22.48 | Garthnait|afk | no text ^^ |
| 22:23.22 | Asheyla | i assume you have some XML that actually *calls* OnLoad and OnEvent? |
| 22:23.34 | Garthnait | http://wowi.pastey.net/4206 |
| 22:25.02 | Asheyla | i dunno, it looks fine to me |
| 22:25.25 | Tuller | what are you doing to try and trigger it? |
| 22:25.30 | Garthnait | hmm, but theres no message ingame |
| 22:25.30 | Tuller | you're taking damage right? |
| 22:25.35 | JoshBorke | Garthnait: did you try seeing if COMBAT_TEXT_UPDATE fires at all? |
| 22:25.39 | Tuller | and you know the event is being fired? |
| 22:25.56 | Tuller | aka, what JoshBorke said :) |
| 22:25.59 | JoshBorke | ciao for now |
| 22:26.08 | Garthnait | it worked ith mana drain from my Black Grasp |
| 22:26.38 | Asheyla | it triggers when you TAKE damage, you realize |
| 22:26.58 | Garthnait | hmm, shit it have to trigger when i do damage |
| 22:27.09 | Asheyla | CHAT_MSG_SPELL_SELF_DAMAGE |
| 22:27.15 | Asheyla | for spells |
| 22:27.18 | Asheyla | dunno for white damage |
| 22:27.55 | Garthnait | argh, y does amro tell me the wrong thing? |
| 22:27.57 | Garthnait | ^^ |
| 22:28.17 | Asheyla | C_T_U is for Blizz SCT - which only tells you what's happening to you yourself |
| 22:28.22 | Garthnait | so that we understand us |
| 22:28.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip68-99-187-213.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 22:28.34 | Garthnait | i will have a message everytime i crit |
| 22:28.43 | Asheyla | spell crit or white crit? |
| 22:28.45 | Asheyla | or both |
| 22:28.57 | Garthnait | both |
| 22:29.34 | Asheyla | CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HIT for hittings other things |
| 22:29.43 | Asheyla | probably crit too |
| 22:30.37 | Garthnait | has this event arg options? |
| 22:30.47 | |Shadow| | lol wtf |
| 22:31.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:31.03 | Asheyla | arg1 = combat log text |
| 22:31.07 | |Shadow| | my fubar PerformanceFu says i have a increaseing rate of -1000KiB/s |
| 22:31.10 | Garthnait | okay |
| 22:31.27 | Asheyla | o.0 |
| 22:31.37 | Asheyla | garbage collect 4tw? |
| 22:31.48 | Asheyla | anyway, i suggest doing something like: |
| 22:31.50 | Asheyla | spellhit = string.gsub(SPELLLOGSCHOOLSELFOTHER,"%%.-[sd]","(.+)") |
| 22:32.01 | Asheyla | so you can do: |
| 22:32.27 | Asheyla | _,_,spell,target,damage,school = string.find(arg1,spellhit) |
| 22:32.43 | Asheyla | well, that's hit |
| 22:32.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:32.49 | Asheyla | crit is SPELLLOGCRITSCHOOLSELFOTHER |
| 22:33.11 | Asheyla | from GlobalStrings.lua |
| 22:33.19 | Asheyla | makes it localized too =] |
| 22:33.28 | Garthnait | whre must i place the strings (sorry but im a noob) |
| 22:35.18 | Asheyla | heres a snip from my code |
| 22:35.19 | Asheyla | http://wowi.pastey.net/4207 |
| 22:35.33 | Asheyla | i define my strings at the top and use them later on to see if they match |
| 22:35.57 | Sstixrud | Ok... I have added UI configuration to a button addon. I get no errors on load, but when I /myaddon config I get the config window but also get the following error: "string "PartyBarsConfig:OnShow"]:2: attempt to call global 'PartyBarsConfig_OnShow' (a nul value) any ideas? |
| 22:36.27 | Asheyla | you are calling the function "PartyBarsConfig_OnShow" but this function does not exist =D |
| 22:36.38 | Garthnait | i think COMBATHITCRITSELFOTHER is the right string for my, or? |
| 22:36.49 | Sstixrud | heh but it should ... :\ |
| 22:36.53 | Asheyla | no idea; i dont have the .lua in front of me |
| 22:37.10 | Garthnait | http://www.wowwiki.com/Patterns_fired_from_each_CHAT_MSG_events#CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS |
| 22:37.21 | Sstixrud | oh u are right |
| 22:37.24 | Sstixrud | hah |
| 22:37.25 | Asheyla | =D |
| 22:37.58 | Asheyla | garth, looks right. but i always recommend looking at the source, to doublecheck |
| 22:38.11 | Asheyla | wowwiki is not 100% |
| 22:38.30 | Garthnait | hmkay |
| 22:38.31 | Sstixrud | I had the OnClicks defined but not the OnShow |
| 22:39.53 | Garthnait | so i've created a string: |
| 22:39.54 | Garthnait | local critmsgs = { |
| 22:39.54 | Garthnait | critmsg = string.gsub(COMBATHITCRITSELFOTHER,"%%.-s","(.+)"), |
| 22:39.54 | Garthnait | } |
| 22:40.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBork1 (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 22:40.15 | Garthnait | so right? |
| 22:40.52 | Asheyla | i suggest "%%.-[sd]" so that it gets %s and %d. |
| 22:41.11 | Garthnait | okay |
| 22:41.31 | Garthnait | and how do i implement the string in |
| 22:41.32 | Garthnait | function GodLike_OnEvent() |
| 22:41.32 | Garthnait | if (event=="CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HIT") then |
| 22:41.32 | Garthnait | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Test"); |
| 22:41.32 | Garthnait | end |
| 22:41.32 | Garthnait | end |
| 22:42.25 | Asheyla | if (blah) then |
| 22:42.58 | JoshBork1 | Garthnait: that should work |
| 22:43.03 | Asheyla | local _,_,target,damage = string.find(arg1,critsmsgs.critmsg) |
| 22:43.09 | JoshBork1 | are you sure that's the event you want? |
| 22:43.26 | Asheyla | if (target and damage) then print("you hit "..target.." for "..damage) end |
| 22:43.48 | Asheyla | though there's little point to the table if there's only one entry in it |
| 22:44.10 | Asheyla | see the code i pasted earlier for how i iterated through all the entries of the table |
| 22:44.28 | Garthnait | could you post me in pastey? |
| 22:44.49 | Garthnait | i understand only trainstation |
| 22:44.52 | Garthnait | ^^ |
| 22:44.57 | |Shadow| | Can you report people for useing the terrain exploit in warsong gulch? |
| 22:45.12 | |Shadow| | we've had people doing it in the past 3 games now, really starting to get annoying :< |
| 22:45.15 | |Shadow| | i got a few screenshots of it |
| 22:46.47 | Asheyla | err what? post you in pastey? |
| 22:47.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge m|a|x (n=max@24-240-198-68.static.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 22:50.06 | Garthnait | i dont understand whre i have to put the strin in my function GodLike_OnEvent() |
| 22:52.30 | Tuller | Asheyla|afk: Another syntax: local target, damage = arg1:match(critsmsgs.critmsg) |
| 22:54.49 | Garthnait | i dont understood how it have to look |
| 23:13.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@c-67-188-231-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:16.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gnarfoz_ (i=smallbra@unaffiliated/gnarfoz) |
| 23:21.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobble (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 23:25.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge popsmight (n=popsmigh@c-71-235-184-107.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.40 | Bouvi | Can anyone tell me why I would be getting the error in this pasty. I included the XML code. http://wowi.pastey.net/4212 |
| 23:31.40 | Xolan[EU] | hm |
| 23:32.25 | Xolan[EU] | could you post the onload function aswell from your lua file? |
| 23:33.47 | Bouvi | http://wowi.pastey.net/4212 |
| 23:33.49 | Xolan[EU] | I |
| 23:34.13 | Xolan[EU] | I assume the spaces bbefore and after the ='s doesn't matter right? |
| 23:34.39 | Xolan[EU] | the onload function has the wrong name :p |
| 23:34.45 | Xolan[EU] | add Fubar_ |
| 23:34.48 | Xolan[EU] | prefix |
| 23:34.53 | Bouvi | DOH!!!!! |
| 23:35.30 | Xolan[EU] | lol easy to go blind when your starring at your code all day |
| 23:35.59 | popsmight | what does this mean paste code here? |
| 23:36.45 | Bouvi | Copy your code and paste it there |
| 23:36.50 | popsmight | wut code? |
| 23:37.00 | Xolan[EU] | ? instead of flooding the channel with code you upload it over there. People can then alter the code in the same example making everyone's life easier |
| 23:37.04 | Xolan[EU] | erm, your code? |
| 23:37.13 | popsmight | my code? |
| 23:37.17 | VoidRaider|afk | haha |
| 23:37.23 | Xolan[EU] | if you code and have a problem - yes :p |
| 23:37.43 | popsmight | code 4 wut? |
| 23:38.14 | foxlit | NT kernel, what else? |
| 23:38.24 | VoidRaider|VR | Vista I think |
| 23:38.24 | popsmight | NT kernel? |
| 23:38.44 | Xolan[EU] | did you work out that problem you had eariler today bouvi? |
| 23:39.59 | VoidRaider|VR | popsmight, why are you here ? if you don't know what's the purpose and the reason this channel exists ? |
| 23:40.00 | VoidRaider|VR | :P |
| 23:40.10 | popsmight | umm |
| 23:40.37 | popsmight | i saw a link 4 here on #norganna channel |
| 23:40.56 | popsmight | and i wuz curious |
| 23:40.56 | VoidRaider|VR | haha |
| 23:40.56 | Xolan[EU] | it's a wow ui mod dev channel :) |
| 23:41.11 | cogwheel | was has the same number of letters as wuz... |
| 23:41.14 | Bouvi | OMGOMGOMG that fixed it all!!!!! |
| 23:41.19 | Xolan[EU] | :D |
| 23:41.29 | popsmight | wuz is better than was=p |
| 23:41.44 | VoidRaider|VR | Hmm I doubt it. :) |
| 23:41.49 | foxlit | Burn in righteous fire? |
| 23:41.51 | Xolan[EU] | but the whole point with abbrevations kinda dissapears :P |
| 23:42.05 | popsmight | o well it is cool |
| 23:42.22 | popsmight | 00cool im trying to write in white |
| 23:42.46 | popsmight | highlight wut i just said lol |
| 23:43.16 | cogwheel | :| |
| 23:43.27 | popsmight | 00i like doing this |
| 23:43.29 | VoidRaider|VR | If you said that color then colour then maybe, but wuz is definitely something that doesn't exist in my vocabulary :) |
| 23:43.48 | popsmight | 00it exists in mine |
| 23:43.48 | Xolan[EU] | nor wut :) |
| 23:43.55 | popsmight | 00wut rulez |
| 23:44.11 | Xolan[EU] | anyways, it's all good now then bou? |
| 23:44.31 | popsmight | 00im awsome |
| 23:45.29 | Sstixrud | Anyone know why http://wowi.pastey.net/4214 fails to update PBCFG? The config ui works and produces no errors, but never updates the PBCFG table |
| 23:45.41 | popsmight | 00i dont |
| 23:45.52 | cogwheel | ~botsmack popsmight |
| 23:46.11 | popsmight | 00why? |
| 23:46.12 | cogwheel | ~botsmack |
| 23:46.13 | purl | OWW! |
| 23:46.16 | VoidRaider|VR | Hmm do you know where FuBar override the default chat anchors, since it overrides mine and I want to comment it. :) |
| 23:46.52 | foxlit | You reset it every time you call LoadVars. |
| 23:46.55 | foxlit | It's silly, really. |
| 23:47.13 | popsmight | would a Mirc script work on here? |
| 23:47.44 | Tuller | so, before I code this, there's no simple function for making a keybinding work only when its given binding is visible, is htere? |
| 23:47.51 | Tuller | err there |
| 23:47.58 | Sstixrud | foxlit that to me or Void |
| 23:48.10 | foxlit | You. |
| 23:48.41 | foxlit | Every call to PartyBars_LoadVariables (and hence PartyBars_Update) will reset the entire config. |
| 23:48.49 | popsmight | if im annoying u all so much ill leave... |
| 23:49.10 | popsmight | 00bye bye |
| 23:49.21 | popsmight | 00happy almost new year |
| 23:49.25 | *** part/#wowi-lounge popsmight (n=popsmigh@c-71-235-184-107.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:50.14 | Sstixrud | if I remove PartyBars_LoadVariables from PartyBars_Update I get PBCFG is a nil value |
| 23:51.09 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 23:51.18 | VoidRaider|VR | Well some people have nothing to do, I guess he was one of them :P |
| 23:51.20 | foxlit | But you need an actual saved variable, not something that you'd initialize every time. |
| 23:52.30 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Save_Variables_Between_Game_Sessions |
| 23:52.32 | Sstixrud | I was wondering about that.. but I am not sure how to extract it into local variables that will/do change as the config ui is changed |
| 23:54.08 | Neuro_Medivh | ? |
| 23:54.22 | Sstixrud | I will go read that, does it address both between game sessions and interactive changing of variables? |
| 23:54.56 | Neuro_Medivh | what do you mean, interactive changing of variables? |
| 23:55.59 | Sstixrud | I have a config ui /pb config that has sliders and checkboxes that I want to modify what the UI looks like in real time |
| 23:56.15 | Neuro_Medivh | Ok |
| 23:56.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge bleetah (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 23:57.34 | Sstixrud | I have the UI working, the addon is functional. But the way I have it now the UI does not modify the actual SavedVariables nor update the UI in real time |
| 23:58.02 | Neuro_Medivh | why not? |
| 23:58.11 | Sstixrud | because I am a poor programmer? :) |
| 23:58.31 | VoidRaider|VR | No, because you're doing something wrong :) |
| 23:58.35 | Neuro_Medivh | Well, let me give you a very basic pseudocode example |
| 23:58.48 | Neuro_Medivh | lets say you want to change the chat box size with your addon |
| 23:59.06 | Neuro_Medivh | You have a slider function that does this |
| 23:59.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Bah - looking for an addon that will tell me what's in my bank without having my bank open :P |
| 23:59.59 | Xolan[EU] | try onebank bagnon or arkinventory |
