| 00:00.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:02.06 | Kirkburn1 | These disconnects are really starting to f-ing piss me off |
| 00:02.36 | Kirkburn1 | Wowee, what a surprise I'm dead through no fault of my own :/ |
| 00:03.20 | Tem | Cairenn, so what really happened? Did he shoot himself or did police kill him? |
| 00:03.32 | Cairenn | police took him down |
| 00:03.36 | Tem | Cairenn, I've read and heard on the radio that he killed himself |
| 00:03.42 | ckknight | who? |
| 00:03.50 | Tem | however, I've also read that the police got him |
| 00:03.59 | Kirkburn1 | Guy in Montreal |
| 00:04.08 | Cairenn | assailant at a college in Montreal |
| 00:04.11 | Kirkburn1 | I'm watching the BBC news report atm |
| 00:04.20 | Tem | AP report says cops |
| 00:04.25 | Tem | NPR said suicide |
| 00:04.32 | Kirkburn1 | BBC says cops too |
| 00:04.41 | Tem | guess it's the cops then |
| 00:04.42 | Cairenn | Police took him out, confirmed it themselves during press confrence |
| 00:05.04 | Cairenn | at least one other dead, more in surgery still |
| 00:06.02 | Cairenn | but unless he left a note somewhere or told someone, no one will ever know *for sure* what set him off, since he's now dead |
| 00:06.19 | Kirkburn1 | Report I'm seeing says 2 deas, 17 injured :/ |
| 00:06.29 | Cairenn | whatever his "reasons" ... fucked up in the head |
| 00:07.55 | Qzot | G'night, people. |
| 00:08.01 | Cairenn | night Qzot |
| 00:08.16 | GeoDaMancer | GOOD NIGHT! |
| 00:08.24 | Tem | report I heard was 19 wounded, 1 dead |
| 00:08.35 | Tem | Later Q |
| 00:08.45 | zenzelezz | preliminary reports are always off |
| 00:08.58 | Cairenn | he's dead, one of those he shot is dead, everything else is "to be seen" |
| 00:09.04 | Tem | well, the one that died, died at the hospital |
| 00:09.16 | Cairenn | because they're all still in surgery |
| 00:09.25 | Tem | crazy |
| 00:09.51 | Cairenn | that's one word for it |
| 00:10.07 | Cairenn | daughter has been in touch with family of all her friends, none involved |
| 00:10.21 | Kirkburn1 | That's something, at least |
| 00:10.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Caboose[FH]2 (n=Caboose9@cpe-66-8-166-76.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 00:11.05 | Cairenn | yeah ... |
| 00:11.11 | Tem | on a completely unrelated note: lol @ city named "Area 52" in outland |
| 00:11.15 | Cairenn | can't help but to feel for everyone though |
| 00:19.29 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:20.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:22.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:23.20 | Kirkburn | Haha! I just set it up to auto ghost Kirkburn if I DC :) |
| 00:23.53 | Kirkburn | Hopefully it'll mean no more multiple KBs, as much as I know you all love that |
| 00:26.01 | Tem | Kirkburn, what irc client? |
| 00:26.08 | Kirkburn | X-chat |
| 00:26.35 | Kirkburn | It might not work in practise though, I'm not certain |
| 00:27.03 | Tem | Iriel's dinner is going to drive him home? |
| 00:27.03 | Kirkburn | See ya |
| 00:27.23 | Iriel | I wish, no, just that dinner will be had on the way to home |
| 00:27.51 | Kirkburn | Gah, you're making me hungry |
| 00:28.06 | Tem | me too >< |
| 00:28.13 | Iriel | So eat! |
| 00:28.34 | Kirkburn | Well it's not 1:30am for you, and you don't have to creep around the house to get it! |
| 00:28.36 | zenzelezz | thankfully I have a pizza in the oven... raiding makes me hungry |
| 00:28.40 | zenzelezz | for phats! But food also |
| 00:28.50 | Tem | I'm busy playing with an AVL tree implementation in lua |
| 00:29.19 | Kirkburn | I need to up my Home Stealth skill |
| 00:30.20 | Kirkburn | Negotiating the Door of Loud Creaking +3000 is the hardest part |
| 00:30.35 | Tem | Window of Escape! |
| 00:30.50 | Kirkburn | Window of Pain On Second Floor, more like ;) |
| 00:30.57 | Tem | distracting shot? |
| 00:31.14 | Kirkburn | How can I distract sleeping people, eh? |
| 00:31.38 | Tem | oh, you aren't stealthing away from work |
| 00:31.45 | Tem | you are stealthing to food in your home |
| 00:31.45 | Kirkburn | lol, no |
| 00:31.50 | Kirkburn | Yeah |
| 00:31.53 | Tem | I see |
| 00:32.00 | Tem | delivery? |
| 00:32.41 | Kirkburn | Nah, really it's just a case of finding a suitably good moment to slip downstairs and raid the fridge :) |
| 00:32.48 | Tem | ah yes... 19:30 + 6 hours... 01:30 there? |
| 00:32.59 | Tem | or perhaps 00:30 |
| 00:33.03 | Kirov | Kirkburn - the fridge is one of those new 25 man instances? |
| 00:33.05 | Tem | I don't know my DST |
| 00:33.05 | Hexarobi | somebody agreed to marry joshborke? |
| 00:33.10 | zenzelezz | Kirkburn: Mind Soothe |
| 00:33.15 | Kirkburn | A grand total of 4 minutes ago, I told you, Tem :P |
| 00:33.35 | Kirov | Hexarobi - aparently. Personally I think I'd just yell "bork bork bork" all the time. |
| 00:33.36 | Kirkburn | (You were right first time :) |
| 00:33.40 | Tem | wow... |
| 00:33.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.188.231.45) |
| 00:34.04 | Hexarobi | as long as its not rusty |
| 00:34.23 | Kirkburn | Dunno, haven't played it for about 4 years :) Still sitting next to me though |
| 00:34.45 | Kirkburn | It reminds me of how lazy I am |
| 00:34.45 | Tem | but.. it's only worth it if you're with 75 buddies |
| 00:34.54 | Tem | otherwise why bother? |
| 00:35.04 | Kirkburn | indeed |
| 00:37.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:37.31 | Kirkburn | You should get that treated, Cairenn |
| 00:37.38 | Kirkburn | It's not natural |
| 00:37.50 | Hexarobi | if yer hand is bigger than yer face, u have cancer |
| 00:38.01 | cogwheel | anyone know how to move the oRA2 main tank frames? |
| 00:38.11 | Cairenn | oh, I already know the solution to the problem ... |
| 00:38.47 | Kirkburn | This revelation worries me |
| 00:38.54 | Cairenn | ./quit |
| 00:39.26 | Kirkburn | And there was me thinking it was "/kick Kirkburn" =) |
| 00:39.32 | zenzelezz | you want us to? |
| 00:40.14 | Kirkburn | It would be normal for me, I get disconnected all the time anyway ;) |
| 00:40.51 | zenzelezz | I meant Cairenn, not you =) |
| 00:41.15 | Cairenn | no :p |
| 00:49.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 00:53.24 | JoshBorke | bye all :) |
| 00:53.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:54.23 | Mr_Rabies2 | Kirov |
| 00:54.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | what server do you play on, assuming you're here? :O |
| 00:56.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | ah looks like gorgonnash from the logs |
| 00:57.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | so Kirov the Warrior from Laughing Skull that just kicked my ass isn't him |
| 01:02.21 | zenzelezz | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=31483723&sid=1 <--- now this is a nice twist on the "zomg <name> is a bot" threads |
| 01:04.49 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 01:06.28 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 01:13.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 01:14.07 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 01:15.49 | ckknight | is this good enough to put on my collage for school: http://mfrost.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/mayhem.jpg ? |
| 01:16.39 | zenzelezz | hehehe |
| 01:18.02 | ckknight | I want assorted semi-random pictures |
| 01:18.08 | ckknight | but I have to give a four-minute talk about it |
| 01:18.18 | Kirkburn | awwww |
| 01:23.00 | zenzelezz | http://www.gucomics.com/comics/gu_20060912.jpg -- I take it there's something wrong with Warsong Gulch |
| 01:26.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 01:26.47 | Tem | zenzelezz, yes, it's possible to jump onto the ledge that encircles the roof of most bases |
| 01:27.07 | Tem | now, I'm not sure how you do it, or if it is possible in both bases.. |
| 01:27.11 | zenzelezz | sounds bad |
| 01:27.16 | Tem | I've only ever seen a Tauren warrior do it |
| 01:27.19 | Tem | in the alliance base |
| 01:28.42 | ckknight | what'd be an image that represents me or something about me? |
| 01:28.47 | ckknight | (I'm making a collage) |
| 01:29.13 | Kirkburn | Kind of hard for people who haven't met you to say :P |
| 01:29.35 | Kirkburn | My image for you would be "mountains of code" |
| 01:29.38 | Hexarobi | a can of tomato soup riding a donkey, jumping over a flaming pond of money |
| 01:29.58 | Kirkburn | Hexarobi's idea is good too, though ... |
| 01:30.04 | ckknight | hrm. |
| 01:30.11 | ckknight | got an image of that handy? |
| 01:30.21 | Hexarobi | i could collage one up for ya |
| 01:30.24 | ckknight | here's what I have now: |
| 01:30.31 | Hexarobi | thats french for "poorly photoshopped" |
| 01:31.23 | ckknight | a graph of real estate prices, adjusted for inflation, a dancing draenei, the numa numa guy, Peter Griffin, Salad Fingers, Orly the owl, a toothpaste for dinner comic, and a bunch of kittens. |
| 01:31.25 | Kirkburn | PTRs are live! |
| 01:31.32 | ckknight | they are? |
| 01:31.37 | Cairenn | for? |
| 01:31.38 | Kirkburn | Ya |
| 01:31.42 | ckknight | for what? |
| 01:31.43 | Tem | 1.12.1 |
| 01:31.44 | Kirkburn | 1.12.1 I guess |
| 01:31.47 | ckknight | oh |
| 01:31.49 | Cairenn | heh |
| 01:31.51 | ckknight | well that's no fun. |
| 01:33.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@68.63.37.188) |
| 01:33.16 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 01:33.30 | Cairenn | evening Kaelten |
| 01:33.36 | Kaelten | howdy |
| 01:33.57 | Hexarobi | i saw a nice picture of bush with red eyes, bloody fangs and a vampiric snarl, hunched over the bleeding neck of the statue of liberty |
| 01:33.58 | Kaelten | does anyone know how to move the history from one svn server to another? |
| 01:35.23 | ckknight | Hexarobi, link? |
| 01:35.35 | ckknight | Kaelten, hrm, I know it's possible, I've done it |
| 01:35.43 | ckknight | easy if you have access to the files of said server. |
| 01:35.44 | Kirkburn | Wheehaw, Office 2007 Beta 2 Tech Refresh 2moro :) |
| 01:35.46 | ckknight | do you? |
| 01:35.50 | Kaelten | yep |
| 01:36.07 | ckknight | should just be a copy-paste deal, then |
| 01:36.13 | Kaelten | we may be moving servers on the svn, dreamhost doesn't like us that much anymore :) |
| 01:36.19 | ckknight | ah, hrm. |
| 01:37.38 | clad|work | Kaelten: its not the host |
| 01:37.40 | clad|work | its somethign with the svn |
| 01:37.43 | clad|work | i'm thinking corruption |
| 01:37.54 | clad|work | i've copied the first 7k revisions over.. working on getting the rest |
| 01:37.56 | clad|work | so we can see. |
| 01:38.23 | Kirkburn | Btw, there's a spelling error in the SVN code |
| 01:38.26 | Kirkburn | "No Desiption Given (No Author Listed)" |
| 01:38.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | i suggest hitting up http://www.brandonbird.com/ for some material, ckknight |
| 01:38.35 | clad|work | yeah, *shrug* |
| 01:38.49 | ckknight | thanks, Mr_Rabies2 |
| 01:39.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | a couple *possible* not worksafe ones, but i think they're all classical art anyway that might be |
| 01:40.16 | ckknight | I know one guy is gonna put porn on his collage |
| 01:40.16 | Hexarobi | ya where did i see that... |
| 01:40.17 | ckknight | with censored stickers covering the naughty parts |
| 01:42.40 | zenzelezz | it's probably not something for a collage, but I like linking people to http://home.samsen.com/zenzelezz/failure.jpg |
| 01:43.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | http://www.brandonbird.com/supper_details.jpg |
| 01:43.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | hilarious. |
| 01:43.05 | ckknight | hehe |
| 01:43.42 | Hexarobi | http://www.flickr.com/photos/pantufla/114081011/ |
| 01:45.30 | ckknight | awesome drawing |
| 01:46.05 | ckknight | not sure I want to necessarily put that on my collage |
| 01:46.06 | ckknight | but maybe... |
| 01:47.12 | Hexarobi | put it on abraham lincoln's tshirt |
| 01:47.19 | Hexarobi | you have honest abe in there right? |
| 01:47.26 | Hexarobi | lincoln is in us all |
| 01:47.31 | Hexarobi | a noble spirit embiggins the smallest man! |
| 01:47.48 | ckknight | that's not Lincoln |
| 01:48.09 | Hexarobi | is it evil lincoln? |
| 01:48.10 | ckknight | that's Jebidiah Springfield |
| 01:48.16 | Hexarobi | yes i know |
| 01:48.22 | Hexarobi | i meant he was embiggined |
| 01:48.26 | Hexarobi | by his noble spirit |
| 01:48.31 | Hexarobi | its a perfectly cromulent point |
| 01:48.35 | ckknight | embiggen. |
| 01:48.40 | ckknight | http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/730/730918/matthew-atherton-20060906023142859.jpg |
| 01:48.45 | ckknight | I think I may need to put that up |
| 01:49.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1158036008906yo0.jpg |
| 01:49.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | feedback was hilarious and possibly slightly crazy |
| 01:49.39 | Hexarobi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towelie |
| 01:49.42 | Hexarobi | i <3 wikipedia |
| 01:49.44 | ckknight | I don't get it, Mr_Rabies |
| 01:49.48 | ckknight | oh, I gotta have Towelie. |
| 01:49.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | what's there to get? godzilla's playing basketball |
| 01:50.46 | Kirkburn | Haha, awesome! Tom and Jerry - the Lost Episode: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=210 |
| 01:51.43 | Qzot | Okay. I'm taking a dive into the WoW gui. I'd like to pop up a radial menu at the current mouse position, and let the user click on it. Or it. Is there a howto, or a good addon that I can use as an example? |
| 01:51.57 | Qzot | s/Or it./Or not. |
| 01:52.02 | ckknight | lol, Kirkburn |
| 01:52.17 | ckknight | Qzot, Dewdrop does a similar thing :-P |
| 01:52.22 | ckknight | but it'd be pretty tough to read |
| 01:52.23 | Kirkburn | I love VGCats :) |
| 01:52.29 | Hexarobi | P.F. Chang's Customer:"This guy is clueless." |
| 01:52.29 | Hexarobi | Towelie:"Don't call me shoeless! YOU'RE shoeless!" |
| 01:53.14 | Hexarobi | i should start contributing to wiki |
| 01:53.25 | Kirkburn | Mmhmm |
| 01:53.32 | Qzot | dewdroplib? |
| 01:53.44 | Hexarobi | im sure i know something about something |
| 01:54.03 | Hexarobi | damn, i suddenly feel very worthless |
| 01:54.06 | Qzot | ckknight: dewdroplib? |
| 01:54.08 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 01:54.20 | ckknight | Qzot, yea, I wrote it. |
| 01:54.25 | ckknight | it pops open a menu |
| 01:54.31 | Kirkburn | Hexarobi, stick with something simple first, do what you love, edit the wowwiki :) |
| 01:54.42 | Qzot | ckknight: Yeah, I saw that. Was wondering if the lib was the place to start. |
| 01:54.48 | ckknight | instead of it looking like a normal rectangular frame with textures, you could make 8 small buttons pop up |
| 01:54.51 | ckknight | Qzot, it |
| 01:54.55 | ckknight | it'd be a really tough read. |
| 01:55.59 | Qzot | ckknight: I won't read it, then. |
| 01:56.05 | ckknight | alright |
| 01:56.08 | Qzot | ckknight: I'll just *ransack* it. :D |
| 01:56.18 | ckknight | how do you mean? |
| 01:56.34 | Hexarobi | i think i need to stick to myspace =( |
| 01:56.38 | Cairenn | night clad|sleep |
| 01:57.02 | Hexarobi | i could write a paper on the worth of beans in ultraviolet lighting conditions |
| 01:57.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraslin (n=dneilson@216-197-173-135.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 01:58.11 | Kirkburn | G'night all |
| 01:58.16 | zenzelezz | night |
| 02:02.04 | Eraslin | Greetings. Would anyone here happen to know the url for a good (read: thorough) tutorial on creating gui elements dynamically (via: CreateFrame()) |
| 02:02.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tyroney (n=tyroney@206.124.150.216) |
| 02:06.06 | Qzot | ckknight: Can Dewdrop import textures? |
| 02:06.17 | Qzot | ckknight: Or rather, does it provide a mechanism to do that? |
| 02:11.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GeoDaMancer (n=GeoMance@dialup-4.254.194.78.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net) |
| 02:13.01 | GeoDaMancer | Wheee. |
| 02:19.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge frus (i=frus@082-146-097-005.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 02:20.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-24-17-87-124.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 02:27.50 | Eraslin | Could I trouble someone to take a peak at http://wowi.pastey.net/791 -- I _think_ the code is supposed to create a blue, empty, frame in the center of the screen but it doesn't appear to do that. Instead, nothing appears and I'm not sure why... |
| 02:27.50 | GeoDaMancer | They suck, don't they? |
| 02:30.01 | GeoDaMancer | Eraslin, do a favor for me. type /run message(frame:GetLeft() .. frame:GetRight() .. frame:GetTop() .. frame:GetBottom()) |
| 02:30.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 02:30.42 | GeoDaMancer | Does it output anything? |
| 02:31.23 | Eraslin | checking... |
| 02:31.25 | GeoDaMancer | If it does, I know your problem. xD |
| 02:32.09 | Eraslin | Giant string of numbers |
| 02:32.23 | GeoDaMancer | Alright. |
| 02:32.38 | GeoDaMancer | Problem I see. frame:SetPoint("CENTER", 0, 0); |
| 02:32.54 | GeoDaMancer | That is wrong. xD |
| 02:33.18 | GeoDaMancer | It's frame:SetPoint("Point", "Parent", "RelPoint", x, y); |
| 02:33.19 | Eraslin | Oh. :-) I'm trying to figure this out from wowwiki... not easy stuff as I'm sure you know. :-) |
| 02:33.33 | GeoDaMancer | Without a parent it doesn't know where it goes. Yeah, I'm working it out myself. xD |
| 02:33.42 | malreth | frame:SetPoint("CENTER", 0, 0) is valid |
| 02:33.49 | GeoDaMancer | It is? |
| 02:33.57 | malreth | and is equivalent to frame:SetPoint("CENTER") |
| 02:34.14 | GeoDaMancer | Ahhh.. Does that automatically set the point to the UIParent? |
| 02:34.22 | malreth | it will default to the frame's parent |
| 02:34.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dreyruugr (n=chatzill@68-171-44-192.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 02:34.49 | Eraslin | Rounding... the giant string of numbers that I got is: 461, 929, 737, 376 what are the odds that the frame's just not on the screen? |
| 02:35.00 | malreth | the frame is on the screen |
| 02:35.08 | malreth | it's just invisible |
| 02:35.10 | GeoDaMancer | That's smack dab in the middle. |
| 02:35.43 | Eraslin | And running frame:Show() isn't sufficient to make the frame appear? |
| 02:36.44 | malreth | frames are by default shown... you could delete that line and you'd have the same effect |
| 02:37.16 | Eraslin | Hrm. |
| 02:37.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Warla (i=Darky28@194.217.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 02:37.26 | Eraslin | Any idea why it's not showing then? |
| 02:37.42 | malreth | the problem: is frame:SetBackdropColor() sufficient to make a visible frame? |
| 02:37.58 | Eraslin | Couldn't tell ya |
| 02:38.25 | GeoDaMancer | It needs a texture to color. xD |
| 02:39.05 | Eraslin | Ooo |
| 02:39.18 | Eraslin | Okay... now to figure out how to set that :-) |
| 02:39.38 | GeoDaMancer | Either use the SetBackDrop( {...} ) one.. |
| 02:41.30 | GeoDaMancer | That one's rather self explanitory. >.> |
| 02:41.43 | Eraslin | Yup, just looking at the docs now :-) |
| 02:45.07 | Eraslin | Yay! It's showing :-) |
| 02:45.12 | Eraslin | Thanks a tonne |
| 02:45.18 | malreth | you're welcome |
| 02:45.40 | malreth | i think you can also just use frame:CreateTexture() to just set a simple texture for the entire frame |
| 02:46.12 | malreth | a backdrop gives you stretchable edge textures, IIRC |
| 02:47.23 | GeoDaMancer | Yep. |
| 02:47.58 | GeoDaMancer | Listen to the Geo, for he is wise, and eats many cookies. |
| 02:48.28 | Iriel | mmm, cookies |
| 02:48.33 | GeoDaMancer | Lots of whiz and bang, but not needed. |
| 02:48.46 | malreth | gah, i'm a coffee junkie |
| 02:49.02 | GeoDaMancer | Damn right cookies. |
| 02:49.24 | Eraslin | Now... to figure out how to make it possible to drag the frame around. Any tips on where to look, api-wise? |
| 02:49.55 | malreth | use an OnMouseDown/Up handler |
| 02:50.12 | Iriel | The easy way is give the frame a TitleRegion, and make it moveable |
| 02:50.20 | Iriel | then it'll become draggable automatically |
| 02:50.49 | malreth | ah, yeah. the totally unused TitleRegion |
| 02:50.52 | GeoDaMancer | It's an event. <OnClick> <OnDrag> >.> |
| 02:51.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@ip-80-226-131-230.vodafone-net.de) |
| 02:51.13 | malreth | there's on onclick handler for a frame |
| 02:51.16 | malreth | only for buttons |
| 02:51.42 | malreth | and OnDrag has a delayed reaction |
| 02:51.55 | malreth | it's good for dragging icons out of bags or action bars |
| 02:52.00 | GeoDaMancer | Oh. xD |
| 02:52.13 | malreth | since it allows the mouse to move for a short distance before the drag is actually initiated |
| 02:52.45 | malreth | using either a TitleRegion or an OnMouseDown/Up handler, you can start the drag immediately |
| 02:53.07 | GeoDaMancer | That's better. |
| 02:53.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | hrmmm |
| 02:53.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | something's making it so that when i shift out of cat form no matter what spell i try to cast right after, i go back into cat @_@ |
| 02:55.44 | Eraslin | Is the return type of frame:GetTitleRegion() a Frame object. Can't be a Region, as that's abstract. |
| 02:56.02 | Eraslin | add a '?' somewhere in that last message ;) |
| 02:56.43 | Iriel | It's a special region |
| 02:57.08 | malreth | yep... it's a property of a frame |
| 02:57.50 | Eraslin | ic. So what methods are defined on it? Standard Region methods, I assume. Anything else? |
| 02:57.57 | malreth | no |
| 02:58.02 | malreth | no methods |
| 02:58.03 | Iriel | I dont think so, no |
| 02:58.10 | Iriel | it's just marking a space in the frame |
| 02:58.17 | Iriel | you can anchor things to it though |
| 02:58.27 | malreth | really? that's odd... |
| 02:58.29 | malreth | and confusing |
| 02:58.38 | Iriel | Why so? |
| 02:58.52 | malreth | well, it just seems... odd. |
| 02:58.58 | malreth | can't really explain what i'm thinking |
| 02:59.08 | Eraslin | Okay, so I can do a frame:GetTitleRegion(), then attach a frame to that, then get a font string for said frame and set it to the title for the frame? |
| 02:59.19 | Iriel | Yes |
| 02:59.27 | Eraslin | Awesome, thanks :-) |
| 02:59.33 | Iriel | You can anchor the font string over the title region and display the title where the title region is |
| 02:59.40 | malreth | it would be consistent from a design perspective to make a titleregion an actual region object if you want to make it act like a region object |
| 02:59.52 | Iriel | that's what I've started doing, attaching a texture and fontstring to the title region |
| 03:00.22 | malreth | question then, Iriel. Is it possible to lock a frame and keep it from being dragged if a title region is set? |
| 03:00.38 | Iriel | Yeah, :SetMovable(false) |
| 03:00.44 | Iriel | it'll only be draggable if you've marked it movable |
| 03:01.11 | malreth | ah... so just use SetMovable(false) to lock it in place then |
| 03:01.24 | malreth | makes sense |
| 03:01.27 | dreyruugr | What is a title region? |
| 03:01.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | well, it's not druid bar, i wonder what's making me shift into cat when i hit spells immediately after shifting out... |
| 03:02.44 | malreth | dreyruugr: you know the title bar at the top of any old window.. like the one for your IRC client? |
| 03:02.50 | GeoDaMancer | No idea, but I had CastSpellByName(Spell) stopping my auto attacks. |
| 03:02.55 | dreyruugr | yeah |
| 03:03.03 | malreth | a title region is like that |
| 03:03.24 | malreth | or it seems that it was intended to be used like that in the widget api |
| 03:03.27 | GeoDaMancer | Like, cancelling the regular attack. <.< When I'm using a melee character. |
| 03:03.51 | dreyruugr | What's an example of a built in frame that has one? |
| 03:03.53 | malreth | which explains why you can anchor text and textures to it now that i think about it |
| 03:03.59 | malreth | no built-in frames use a title region |
| 03:04.20 | Iriel | BZZZT - wrong answer |
| 03:04.22 | malreth | i remember doing a recursive grep for title regions |
| 03:04.29 | Iriel | FloatingChatFrame and TutorialFrame do |
| 03:04.32 | malreth | nothing came up.. |
| 03:04.35 | malreth | hmm... |
| 03:04.42 | malreth | O RLY? |
| 03:05.13 | malreth | ok... i stand corrected |
| 03:05.22 | Iriel | FloatingChatFrameTemplate sets its whole self to be a TitleRegion |
| 03:05.27 | malreth | oh... |
| 03:05.37 | Iriel | As does TutorialFrame |
| 03:06.40 | malreth | so... very few blizzard frames use the title region |
| 03:06.59 | malreth | and none of them actually use it as a *title* region |
| 03:07.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | well that was fast, i found out what addon's causing it i think |
| 03:07.09 | Mr_Rabies2 | feralskills. |
| 03:07.30 | Iriel | Didn't those spells change recently to be toggles? |
| 03:09.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | what spells? is that part of the title frame conversation i kinda interrupted? :o |
| 03:09.35 | Iriel | the shapeshift spells |
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| 03:10.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | maybe internally, but all i know is if i shift out of cat and spam my entangling roots button as i'm shfitng out, it shifts me back in |
| 03:11.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | because toolbar button 4 is a Feralskills macro |
| 03:12.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | but when i do it with moonfire/claw, which is toolbar button 3, it doesn't do it, because it's a spell, not a feralskills macro |
| 03:12.27 | tyroney | Hmm. So occasionally I move the minimap offscreen. And sometimes when my system gets a little laggy, the minimap flashes up filling my whole screen for a frame. |
| 03:12.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | i installed some addon that made the minimap freaking HUGE back in the day |
| 03:13.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | that was fun :[ |
| 03:13.38 | tyroney | I guess I'll also alpha it to 0 when I move it offscreen. |
| 03:14.09 | Mr_Rabies2 | why do you move it offscreen anyway? just wondering :O |
| 03:16.21 | tyroney | Well, my compass stops if I hide the thing. (my compass watches the little arrow model) So I have to find creative ways to get it hidden if I don't want my compass to break. |
| 03:16.34 | Eraslin | Okay, I've got dragging working with event callbacks but, I'm having trouble getting it working with TitleRegions. Iriel... do any of your published addons use the TitleRegions trick? |
| 03:16.52 | Iriel | ultra tiny scale (so it's about 2 pixels wide) off in a corner |
| 03:17.03 | tyroney | I guess I might as well learn how to scale something. Not like it's even remotely hard. |
| 03:17.20 | Eraslin | In fact, I'm having trouble just getting a fontstring to position relative to a titleregion... |
| 03:17.41 | tyroney | you did give the titleregion some kind of size/anchor, right? |
| 03:17.47 | Iriel | Eraslin: No, but all I had to do was create the TitleRegion, anchor it, and do frame:SetMovable(true) and frame:EnableMouse(true) |
| 03:20.54 | tyroney | Bwa! Well, setscale didn't change anything. |
| 03:21.14 | Eraslin | I _think_ I anchored it... I did: local tR=frame:CreateTitleRegion(); tR:SetPoint("CENTER", frame, "TOP", 0, -10); local f=frame:CreateFontString(); t:SetAllPoints(tR); and then stuff to set the font's width, colour, etc |
| 03:21.31 | tyroney | assuming setScale(0.001) was small enough. |
| 03:21.39 | Iriel | tyroney: Did you scale its container? I think the minimap is oddly anchored. |
| 03:21.40 | tyroney | s/small enough/valid/ |
| 03:21.51 | tyroney | Hmm. |
| 03:21.54 | Iriel | tyroney: : Or just plain re-anchor it to something else |
| 03:22.14 | Iriel | tyroney: : You can skip the scale completely and just give it ridiculously small size via anchors, I suspect |
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| 03:22.51 | tyroney | Currently, I'm just moving it's center anchor. (the same way it was positioned originally) |
| 03:23.06 | Iriel | So it's just got a single (center) anchor? |
| 03:23.25 | GeoDaMancer | The only places my latency goes into green have no people or enemies. xD |
| 03:23.28 | tyroney | In XML, and definitely after I've put it back. |
| 03:23.37 | Iriel | But scaling has no effect?? Have you tried things like SetScale(0.1) just to make sure you didn't hit some internal limit? |
| 03:24.16 | tyroney | That's what I'm about to do. Got distracted when I un-"hid" it and an addon's button came back in a weird place. |
| 03:24.56 | tyroney | Scaled it live, and it went there and back just fine. |
| 03:26.16 | tyroney | bleh. typos, confusion. |
| 03:26.57 | tyroney | Ok, thanks for the continued advice. Scaling seems to do the trick just fine. |
| 03:27.22 | Eraslin | Thanks for the help with the TitleRegion... got it working |
| 03:27.40 | tyroney | This is just such a happy place. |
| 03:29.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | you could scale it and hide the couple pixels under another frame or something on command probably :o |
| 03:29.29 | Mr_Rabies2 | knowing those couple pixels were still there would drive me batty |
| 03:29.33 | Corrodias | ah... at least it's almost decently warm in here |
| 03:29.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's like finding a dead pixel on an LCD |
| 03:29.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | you can't un-see it :P |
| 03:29.59 | Corrodias | 73.6 F is still significantly below my comfort zone, but at least it's not like down in the lab, which is easily below 70 |
| 03:30.15 | tyroney | I'm putting the couple of pixels offscreen. |
| 03:30.30 | tyroney | The catch was the unscaled would occasionally haunt me, even from offscreen. |
| 03:31.06 | tyroney | I'm really annoyed by the inconsistant Minimap and some of it's MiniMapFoo children. |
| 03:34.02 | tyroney | And now if it ever gets fixed, it will just annoy me again. Oh, the humanity! |
| 03:35.21 | tyroney | If I clear all points on something, it will stay put generally speaking, right? |
| 03:36.16 | malreth | that's what i've found |
| 03:36.34 | malreth | you have to call SetPoint to actually move a frame programmatically |
| 03:37.10 | tyroney | Or move what it's anchored to. |
| 03:37.53 | malreth | yeah |
| 03:39.03 | KaeltenAway | gnight guys |
| 03:39.30 | Iriel | tyroney: It should stay put, yes |
| 03:39.38 | Iriel | tyroney: : Your best bet is to anchor against nil (the screen) |
| 03:40.16 | tyroney | I'm just trying to get my mail icon to stick around. Currently I'm re-anchoring and parenting it to the minimapcluster |
| 03:40.37 | tyroney | Finding I need to raise it's level now that I've moved it around so much. |
| 03:41.32 | tyroney | yeargh. |
| 03:44.13 | Qzot | Hmm. Okay. Standard tools to muck with .blp files? |
| 03:45.05 | malreth | search curse-gaming for blp -> whatever -> blp translators |
| 03:45.19 | malreth | use your choice of image app to edit the whatever in-between |
| 03:46.16 | Qzot | Hmm. Any recommendations? Or should I just *run* *any* *random* .exe someone has uploaded to c-g? That sounds really safe. |
| 03:46.42 | malreth | generally, c-g isn't in the business of distributing malware |
| 03:46.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | holy crap i got mortal struck for 951 |
| 03:47.09 | Qzot | Understood. Nor are they doing any heavy screening that I've heard about. |
| 03:47.24 | Qzot | But I'm not all that familiar with c-g. |
| 03:47.45 | Mr_Rabies2 | i guess that's not that bad with 55% DR, but still a lot harder than most warriors can hit me for :x |
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| 03:48.10 | Qzot | Tho, come to think of it, 1000s of downloads ought to make it safer. |
| 03:48.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | er execute, not MS, i guess that's about right |
| 03:48.23 | malreth | well, that's a logical fallacy, Qzot |
| 03:48.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | i had a java program that did it a while ago, qzot |
| 03:48.37 | malreth | but, i recall there being a java tool on there |
| 03:48.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | lemme see if i can find it |
| 03:48.51 | malreth | yeah... that one worked well |
| 03:49.06 | malreth | even worked on my Mac... that's a winner in my books |
| 03:49.09 | Qzot | How so? Thousands of downloads -> lots of time for *other* people to have been burned, for them to complain, and for c-g to take it down. |
| 03:49.23 | ckknight | hey all |
| 03:49.34 | malreth | download counts can be faked if you're determined |
| 03:49.36 | Cairenn | wb ckknight |
| 03:49.46 | Qzot | malreth: good point. |
| 03:50.08 | Iriel | Qzot: I'd just stick with .tga, though there's a java blp tool, apparently, which would be open source I hope |
| 03:50.47 | malreth | and good malware would execute their malicious payload with some sort of delay so that the event isn't associated with running the original application |
| 03:51.55 | tyroney | Shh! They might be listening! |
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| 04:03.31 | tyroney | Spare me some effort: where does the battleground icon show up around the map? (roughly) |
| 04:04.24 | malreth | at about 7 o'clock, iirc |
| 04:05.36 | tyroney | That sounds about right. |
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| 04:21.04 | Cairenn | night guys |
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| 04:33.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | aha |
| 04:33.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | i think i found out why our queues are so long |
| 04:33.28 | Iriel | Free pancakes? |
| 04:33.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | it looks like there's a cap to the amount of bgs that can happen at once |
| 04:33.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | per battlegroup |
| 04:33.49 | Mr_Rabies2 | cause i see exactly 40 wsgs and 40 abs |
| 04:34.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | might just be coincidence, but still |
| 04:34.45 | Iriel | That's a lot of BG action |
| 04:35.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | we're always at ~40 |
| 04:35.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | and 15 AVs |
| 04:35.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | i think there's some kind of secret cap :x |
| 04:45.50 | Qzot | Ugh. Took me that long to produce a simple .blp file. |
| 04:46.25 | Iriel | why not just use a .tga ? |
| 04:46.45 | Qzot | O.O |
| 04:46.58 | Qzot | WoW accepts .tga? |
| 04:47.52 | Qzot | I'll just dial the pain back a bit. This should hurt me less than the last hour... |
| 04:49.28 | Iriel | Yeah, wow accepts .tga just fine (32 bit (24 bit color + 8 bit alpha)) |
| 04:49.40 | Qzot | -.- |
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| 05:08.05 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump |
| 05:08.07 | jaxdahl | bottom of page.. |
| 05:08.13 | jaxdahl | some guild doing recruitment? |
| 05:10.28 | jaxdahl | they put it here too.. |
| 05:10.29 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Community_portal |
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| 05:36.05 | jaxdahl | why the hell do i get 'server busy' at this hour? |
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| 05:50.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | the only time you want to use .blp is replacing blizzard art.... not that i know anything about that <_< |
| 05:51.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | i guess that's not entirely true, but i havent seen any other use |
| 06:15.48 | Iriel | Night all |
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| 07:26.42 | End | erm, bed, not bed |
| 07:26.45 | End | bet |
| 07:26.47 | End | whatever |
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| 07:42.24 | Mikma | zinor: are you here? :) |
| 07:44.36 | Mikma | zinor: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-5170-1-ignasia-fuck-off.html :D |
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| 07:58.41 | Corrodias | AV wins are exhiliarating, but several losses in a row are rather disheartening |
| 07:58.49 | Corrodias | boy, that competetive stuff sure is competetive |
| 07:58.53 | kergoth | hehe |
| 08:00.11 | Corrodias | and yes, the alliance players have to be assholes about it the whole way, even trying to protect balinda while beating on Dre |
| 08:00.13 | Corrodias | *Drek |
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| 08:05.27 | Corrodias | i believe i'm now 6-10 in AV |
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| 08:06.57 | Corrodias | last game, our defense started good and then kinda dispersed |
| 08:07.18 | Corrodias | the game before that, we lost SH and O got hung up fighting their O and the whole thing collapsed |
| 08:07.25 | Corrodias | although i don't see why -we- lost, except that we suck at AV |
| 08:10.23 | Corrodias | oh, great song: Public Image Limited - This Is Not A Love Song |
| 08:10.47 | Corrodias | they played that during an AV match, and i think we were losing, but it picked me up anyway |
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| 08:15.18 | Mikma | http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/252/15/finnisharmy1157916140.jpg |
| 08:16.33 | Corrodias | boy, that's not gay at all |
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| 08:19.38 | Wobin | Nah, it's not gay unless your balls touch =) |
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| 08:21.06 | Corrodias | ah, how could i forget? |
| 08:21.57 | Mikma | true.. true.. |
| 08:28.49 | Corrodias | Dead Or Alive - You Spin Me Round |
| 08:30.25 | Wobin | right round baby right round like a record baby right round? |
| 08:30.36 | Wobin | Or Kylie? |
| 08:30.57 | Corrodias | the former is correct |
| 08:39.48 | Tem | that sound has a bad place in my head |
| 08:39.51 | Tem | forever |
| 08:40.18 | Tem | NEVER associate a picture like that with music |
| 08:40.34 | Corrodias | pic... oh, meatspin! |
| 08:40.56 | Corrodias | that had me mesmerized |
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| 09:48.17 | Corrodias | now i must analyze why the horde loses more often in AV than it wins |
| 09:51.03 | Corrodias | our offense... gets stuck a lot. our players don't understand how to puch past things. but that's not the only issue. the layouts of the bases are very different... |
| 09:51.48 | Corrodias | approaching the alliance base, you have to take either the low or high road, and they typically lay a bunch of frost traps on that, and meet you in force. then, later, they have the bridge, which isn't usually so bad. |
| 09:52.21 | Corrodias | the horde base, on the other hand, has basically one short stretch as its only chokepoint, and that's half covered by a building so we can't fire on people until they're right on the doorstep of the towers |
| 09:53.03 | Corrodias | you can't stop them at the village door because they can just use a snowbank to jump over the wall... but that's just like taking the high road. understood. |
| 09:53.06 | Mikma | i like my avatar :D http://mikma.reaktio.net/wagner.jpg .. here's another i'm thinking of using: http://mikma.reaktio.net/wagner2.jpg |
| 09:53.20 | Corrodias | cute |
| 09:54.42 | Corrodias | so the bases aren't all that dissimilar in balance |
| 09:55.48 | Corrodias | the players, on the other hand, have issues. i must examine how the alliance attacks our D and what i've seen of our O doing... |
| 09:56.35 | Mikma | well usually i just gank people spawning at GY :P |
| 09:56.37 | Mikma | that works fine |
| 09:56.38 | Corrodias | the alliance defense seems unusually good at stopping the horde offense, but i've only seen our D actually stop them a couple of times. do they wait and attack as a group? actually, yes, i've seen this happen. |
| 09:57.13 | Corrodias | Mikma: i play a druid, and i wear my healing gear in a BG. i cannot gank anyone. however, your contribution is noted, and i will attempt to work that into my strategy for guiding the other players. |
| 09:58.04 | Corrodias | they will stand at a distance from the D group until they have sufficient numbers to move forward together... and then once an objective is taken, half the force will move on and grab the next objective before D regroups there. this is a major failing on our part. |
| 09:58.13 | Mikma | Corrodias: <- shadowpriest :P |
| 09:58.38 | Gngsk | I stole wager2, you better not move it from that webspace |
| 09:58.41 | Corrodias | shadow priests deal large amounts of damage to single targets. healing druids deal small amounts of damage to dingle targets. |
| 09:58.49 | Corrodias | *single |
| 09:58.50 | Mikma | Gngsk: will not :) |
| 09:59.07 | Corrodias | besides, you didn't say how you deal with the NPC defenders |
| 09:59.32 | Corrodias | which, i should say, can murder me in a few seconds |
| 09:59.39 | Mikma | Corrodias: mm, when i did play AV i had a mage with me :P he aoe'd the defenders and i spamhealed his ass |
| 09:59.52 | Corrodias | ah |
| 09:59.53 | Mikma | frostmage <3 |
| 10:00.15 | Mikma | ultimate crowdcontrol with megapunishment :D |
| 10:01.24 | Corrodias | we sometimes don't even leave defenders at our GY's that we just took. that's a huge embarassment. the alliance usually has like 5 people at their most recent GY. |
| 10:02.47 | Mikma | but the interesting thing is that horde usually won on our server (all bg's) |
| 10:03.02 | Mikma | dunno what's the situation now since we have the merged bg's |
| 10:03.14 | Corrodias | well, it ain't like that in battle group 1, i can tell you that |
| 10:03.33 | Corrodias | WSG 50-59 was mostly horde, except for an alliance frostmane twink group |
| 10:04.45 | Mikma | twinks... |
| 10:05.19 | Corrodias | two issues arrive next: 1) our offense doesn't understand how to -push- into the defenders as a group to approach the objective, and 2) our defense never has enough AoE damage or the numbers to intimidate them |
| 10:06.01 | Mikma | your group likes to solorun around the freaking place and die? |
| 10:06.13 | Corrodias | sort of |
| 10:06.30 | Corrodias | you should see when they get stuck on the road or bridge |
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| 10:07.06 | Mikma | the reasons i see people losing battles is mainly because they are just too dumb to run as a group and heal the dps people |
| 10:07.14 | Corrodias | the alliance typically has around 8-10 defenders, from my count, who focus their fire and stand their ground. our O tends to pull back when under fire and doesn't really focus. |
| 10:07.17 | Mikma | they just run alone into huge group and die asap |
| 10:07.22 | Mikma | then rinse and repeat |
| 10:07.45 | Corrodias | Mikma: the problem is that the guy who ran in had the right idea, from what i can tell, and it's just that nobody else went with him |
| 10:08.25 | Mikma | Corrodias: lol, well that is a way to see things too. Well i'm that kind of person, i wanna kill but die because there ain't no-one with me :D |
| 10:08.36 | Mikma | "where in the !"#!& are you?!?" |
| 10:08.43 | Mikma | 'we're here defending' |
| 10:08.53 | Mikma | *horde has the flag* |
| 10:08.59 | Mikma | *horde has captured the flag* |
| 10:09.00 | Mikma | :D |
| 10:09.10 | [floyd] | Cheers! What's the recommended way to persistently store data these days? |
| 10:09.11 | Mikma | that was a normal match in WSG |
| 10:09.42 | Mikma | AV was like die, die, die, kill, die, die die, lose base, die, die, die, kill, die, die die, lose base .. |
| 10:10.18 | Wobin | floyd: howso? |
| 10:10.48 | Corrodias | at least one thing goes right: the alliance always heads west across snowfall and into iceblood garrison, while we go up the east side toward SH GY |
| 10:11.07 | Corrodias | our O doesn't have to clash with theirs unless they fail to capture SH before the alliance gets IB |
| 10:11.54 | [floyd] | Wobin: I have distant memories that Blizzard changed (restricted?) the use of the SaveVariables.lua file. Been away for a few months, and just need a quick intro ;) |
| 10:11.57 | Corrodias | although i'm still not sure why that means we must lose at that point. i think it's because of the fact that, as you said before, small groups throw themselves against the whole and just get annihilated, wait 20 seconds to res while everyone else dies, and repeat. |
| 10:12.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Asni (n=insa@144.224-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 10:12.26 | Corrodias | addons register variables to be saved in their .toc file. you cannot use RegisterForSave() any more. |
| 10:12.46 | [floyd] | Ah great, thanks a heap. |
| 10:13.07 | Corrodias | then our Offense gets stuck with this idea that they want to beat back the alliance, and in a straight fight they basically just keep pushing us back and thinning us out until they have Drek |
| 10:13.37 | Corrodias | despite my exhortations that the O guys just ride past their O guys and ignore them on the way to reclaim SH, the map showed they didn't... |
| 10:14.58 | Corrodias | but even then... |
| 10:15.11 | Corrodias | anybody who died would be back on the other side until you held one for 5 minutes |
| 10:15.24 | Corrodias | you have to wait in the cave until their O passes to FW or something |
| 10:17.51 | Corrodias | well, you don't seem interested in my speaking of thoughts aloud, so i'll go to bed and think as i wash beforehand. 'ni |
| 10:20.02 | Mikma | that's just way too much data to handle |
| 10:20.07 | Mikma | brainfart |
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| 11:00.24 | Mikk | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump <- graphics! |
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| 11:18.34 | JoshBorke | lol Mikk |
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| 11:51.14 | Dhraga | Hiya all |
| 11:51.38 | Dhraga | Okies, what coder is up for a FuBar-Plugin question ? |
| 11:54.29 | Wobin | You may have better luck in #wowace =) |
| 11:54.40 | Dhraga | aaaaaa.... :D Thanks =) |
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| 12:55.09 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
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| 13:03.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KevICG (n=supervis@rrcs-70-62-123-75.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 13:05.26 | KevICG | any experienced modders have a couple minutes to help a noobish modder determine if his concept for a mod is even remotely possible? |
| 13:10.37 | [Ammo] | kevICG: shoot |
| 13:10.54 | [Ammo] | people are most likely to respond if you just type your idea :) |
| 13:12.17 | KevICG | ammo |
| 13:12.19 | KevICG | err |
| 13:12.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@w-mob201-128-62-98-216.public.utexas.edu) |
| 13:12.25 | KevICG | hehe, sorry work distracted me |
| 13:12.30 | malreth | RAWRWER! |
| 13:12.31 | KevICG | it does that sometimes |
| 13:12.53 | KevICG | are you familiar with GEM? |
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| 13:13.28 | malreth | and the Holograms? |
| 13:13.58 | KevICG | silly wabbit, Guild Event Manager |
| 13:14.05 | [Ammo] | nope I'm not |
| 13:14.13 | [Ammo] | but I do know what it does |
| 13:14.38 | KevICG | well, essentially gem is an in-game event scheduler for raids. Sort of like phpRaid, but online |
| 13:14.48 | KevICG | but it has... limitations |
| 13:15.00 | KevICG | and it is a messaging whore |
| 13:15.32 | [Ammo] | so you want a replacement? |
| 13:15.38 | KevICG | to build one yes |
| 13:15.45 | KevICG | and I've seen Combine :) |
| 13:15.58 | [Ammo] | hehe |
| 13:15.59 | KevICG | but combine is about at the same spot we are |
| 13:16.15 | KevICG | although he's designing the UI first, we're working on the infrastructure and data first |
| 13:16.25 | [Ammo] | I think he's not designing the UI first |
| 13:16.29 | KevICG | no? |
| 13:16.36 | [Ammo] | I think he's adding functionality with the UI |
| 13:16.50 | KevICG | sec, lemme find his site, all I've seen are the few SSs, no design |
| 13:17.00 | [Ammo] | http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php/topic,1828.0.html |
| 13:17.55 | KevICG | ty kindly :) |
| 13:17.57 | [Ammo] | but knowing Kaelten it'll all work well in the end |
| 13:18.46 | Kirkburn | Hmm, I do wish there was a 'back exit' to IF for flights, it's so laggy going over the AH and Gates |
| 13:19.09 | [Ammo] | more RAM is the solution kirkburn |
| 13:19.28 | [Ammo] | I have a shitty PC, but lots of RAM, works fine now |
| 13:19.32 | [Ammo] | didn't with 512M |
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| 13:19.50 | Kirkburn | That doesn't solve the massive bandwidth it needlessly uses though :/ |
| 13:20.14 | [Ammo] | I've never seen wow go ver 10kb/s |
| 13:20.20 | [Ammo] | I think |
| 13:20.24 | [Ammo] | but I haven't been paying attention a lot |
| 13:20.30 | KevICG | I do not doubt kaelten's savvy, in any case we have some other addons we wish to plan that will eventually interact with our version of the scheduler, so assuming we proceed with our scheduler I'm just wondering if a few things are possible |
| 13:20.51 | [Ammo] | ask away :) |
| 13:21.01 | Kirkburn | I was planning on getting more memory for this laptop, but it seems not to have any more slots :( |
| 13:21.40 | AnduinLothar | ya it always sucks replacing ram for bigger ram... can never sell the used sticks for as much as ou paid fo rthem.. |
| 13:22.26 | AnduinLothar | if you can sell them at all |
| 13:22.26 | KevICG | first off, we'd like to initialize with data from the web, like a dump of phpRaid info. I realize there are some terms of use restrictions, but I think we can avoid breaking the TOU by using UniUploader's ability to download a single lua data file prior to launch |
| 13:22.26 | Kirkburn | This has got two 512s, but afaik Dell don't make 1024 for this model :( |
| 13:22.26 | [floyd] | Is it just me, or is the WoW messaging system borked? I'm having quite a bit of difficulties monitoring states, in particular with respect to SPELLCAST_START et. al. How do I reliably retrieve whether a spell was interrupted or not? |
| 13:22.26 | KevICG | assuming at least a few folks from the guild use UniUploader, that should be sufficient to get the data into the game |
| 13:22.26 | AnduinLothar | dell doesn't make ram |
| 13:22.40 | [Ammo] | I am not sure how strict the wow tou is, but you could download a .lua saved var or data file I guess |
| 13:23.04 | KevICG | amma: that's pretty much all we want to do. a single lua saved var file prior to launch |
| 13:23.05 | AnduinLothar | you can easily insert a lua file before loading |
| 13:23.21 | KevICG | err -ma+mo |
| 13:23.26 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, okay _supply_ ram |
| 13:23.26 | AnduinLothar | long as the file exists before you launch the game |
| 13:23.33 | KevICG | aye |
| 13:23.38 | JoshBorke | oh wow, talk |
| 13:24.23 | malreth | Kirkburn: go to crucial.com and put in your system details. you'll find ram there |
| 13:24.25 | AnduinLothar | I'm uploading a 31meg blown up picture of a dark archon to func.net to put on a 14"x11" mousepad |
| 13:24.29 | AnduinLothar | it's gonna be sick |
| 13:24.31 | JoshBorke | [floyd]: what's the problem? SPELLCAST_INTERRUPTED gets fired when interrupted |
| 13:24.35 | Kirkburn | Even for a laptop? |
| 13:24.50 | malreth | Kirkburn: go look |
| 13:24.51 | JoshBorke | [floyd]: SPELLCAST_STOP gets fired whenever a spell stops, with additional firings for channeled spells |
| 13:25.01 | KevICG | once in the game the scheduling mod, parses it's own data from last login, parses the web update, reconciles the events, and computes checksums for every event it has, and a "master" checksum of all events. So, assuming all the clients use the same order of storing events, the master checksum should be identical for clients with the same data |
| 13:25.03 | Kirkburn | Shall do :) |
| 13:25.21 | [floyd] | JoshBorke: Yep. However, SPELLCAST_STOP gets fired in either case, sometimes before the INTERRUPTED, sometimes after... |
| 13:25.29 | KevICG | the player client then sends out a broadcast request for everybody to /w it their master checksums |
| 13:25.57 | KevICG | if it finds somebody that doesn't have the same master checksum it requests the list of event checksums |
| 13:26.04 | JoshBorke | [floyd]: indeed ;-) |
| 13:26.33 | KevICG | when it finds the event(s) that don't match it requests the event data (probably in /w to cut down on chatter) |
| 13:26.37 | [floyd] | Alright then, yet another fragile state machine will be hacked on top of a broken system :/ |
| 13:26.51 | JoshBorke | [floyd]: what are you trying to do? |
| 13:27.04 | JoshBorke | [floyd]: if you just ignore the SPELLCAST_STOP, you can determine why things failed etc without it |
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| 13:27.13 | [floyd] | JoshBorke: Monitoring resources I recovered (ore, rocks, etc.) |
| 13:27.25 | JoshBorke | ah, good luck :-) |
| 13:27.33 | KevICG | when it has the event data, it uses it's rule system to reconcile them, and then determines if a change is needed to the event. if the event is changed, it sends out a broadcast telling everybody to update their event |
| 13:27.42 | AnduinLothar | IsCasting is your friend |
| 13:28.01 | JoshBorke | AnduinLothar: why is Chronos a requirement for Telepathy? |
| 13:28.02 | KevICG | isn't there an inventory change event? |
| 13:28.07 | [floyd] | JoshBorke: I cannot ignore the STOP, cause then I might get the LOOT_OPENED for an enemy corpse, which I do not want to get mixed in ;) |
| 13:28.41 | AnduinLothar | um, because it uses timers.. |
| 13:28.56 | JoshBorke | what about hooking WorldFrame:OnMouseDown and registering for the events you want then based on the tooltip/name |
| 13:29.02 | KevICG | ammo: have I said anything impossible yet? |
| 13:29.05 | JoshBorke | AnduinLothar: for throttling or for serialization? |
| 13:29.21 | JoshBorke | or both? |
| 13:29.32 | Kirkburn | Of all the times for someone to come to the door, right when I was just coming up to an ambush part of a quest :/ |
| 13:29.32 | AnduinLothar | well technically neither |
| 13:29.45 | JoshBorke | lol kirkburn |
| 13:29.55 | AnduinLothar | ChatTHrottleLib handles the throttleing timers itself |
| 13:30.09 | AnduinLothar | Telepathy uses it to manage the global channel |
| 13:30.37 | AnduinLothar | since the channel events are squishy |
| 13:30.46 | JoshBorke | hm, ok |
| 13:30.49 | AnduinLothar | and the channels aren't loaded until after PEW |
| 13:30.57 | Kirkburn | It was the Loch Modan excavation supply quest - forutnately I managed to get back *just* in time :) |
| 13:31.08 | AnduinLothar | so it uses afterInit to init the global channel |
| 13:31.18 | AnduinLothar | so it doesn't end up in slot 1 all the time |
| 13:32.52 | AnduinLothar | it uses both the init and timer, so there's not much in chronos it doesn't use, cept maybe the slash command |
| 13:33.15 | AnduinLothar | it wouldn't be much smaller it i wrote a specific system for telepathy |
| 13:33.31 | AnduinLothar | and i don't like duplicating code i've already written |
| 13:33.43 | [Ammo] | kevicg: not really impossible, just harder to keep in sync with the checksums etc |
| 13:33.50 | [Ammo] | if everyone needs to keep stuff in the same order |
| 13:35.19 | KevICG | the order is really the least of my worries. you have to sort events anyway, so the order the events will be in will be the sort order |
| 13:36.27 | AnduinLothar | why do you ask, JoshBorke? |
| 13:37.10 | KevICG | and really the checksums are the easy way to keep them in sync. to determine if you're out of sync you only have to check the checksum |
| 13:37.59 | [Ammo] | you could use a timestamp? |
| 13:38.11 | [Ammo] | oh wait you can't |
| 13:38.13 | [Ammo] | hrmf |
| 13:38.18 | Beladona | I like Group Calendar's ui more than any other I have seen. But I agree the backend needs tons of work. I would like to see it converted to the addon messaging system for one. |
| 13:38.23 | KevICG | timestamp is part of the key |
| 13:38.27 | [Ammo] | there's no definate server timestamp |
| 13:38.39 | Beladona | from what screenshots I have seen thus far, i doubt I will be using Combine, or anything else |
| 13:38.47 | KevICG | ok, that's an issue, but not one that's a showstopper |
| 13:39.04 | KevICG | I can use local timestamp and adjust for timezone |
| 13:39.19 | [Ammo] | the drawback of Combine, Group Calender GEM etc etc, is you need to enforce it on the whole guild |
| 13:39.23 | [Ammo] | otherwise it's useless |
| 13:39.30 | [Ammo] | most guilds have a website/dkp system etc already |
| 13:39.39 | Beladona | I already have enforced it on my guild |
| 13:39.42 | Beladona | thats not the issue |
| 13:39.46 | [Ammo] | okie :) |
| 13:39.59 | KevICG | enforce which? using server time? |
| 13:40.11 | Beladona | using an in-game guild event manager |
| 13:40.12 | [Ammo] | I suggest using server time KevICG |
| 13:40.20 | Beladona | yes, server time is constant |
| 13:40.24 | [Ammo] | since local time = local machine time which is different for everyone |
| 13:40.25 | KevICG | didn't you just say there's no server timestamp? |
| 13:40.32 | [Ammo] | there is, I was just rambling :( |
| 13:40.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Skrom_ (n=Skrom@66.148.226.210.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 13:40.40 | KevICG | oh, then forget all that |
| 13:40.48 | Beladona | where do you think the time dial on teh minimap gets it? |
| 13:40.52 | KevICG | I was planning on using a server timestamp until you said there isn't one |
| 13:40.53 | Beladona | lol |
| 13:40.58 | [Ammo] | hehe |
| 13:40.59 | [Ammo] | I'm sorry |
| 13:41.03 | KevICG | no worries |
| 13:41.12 | [Ammo] | I haven't had mucho coffee today, and twiddling with coordinate conversion stuff |
| 13:41.47 | KevICG | anyway, so events are ID'd by event time, creating user, creation time |
| 13:41.54 | KevICG | easy enough to sort that |
| 13:41.57 | [Ammo] | yeah |
| 13:42.31 | KevICG | the checksum takes that, any event option data that is event creator specific, and the signup list and creates an "event" checksum |
| 13:42.55 | Skrom_ | morning |
| 13:43.08 | KevICG | the event checksums are run sequentially through a checksum calculator to get the "master" checksums |
| 13:43.08 | Beladona | I need to ask |
| 13:43.12 | Beladona | why a checksum? |
| 13:43.17 | Beladona | is it for security? |
| 13:43.31 | KevICG | because that's the easiest way to tell if an event is different without actually comparing all the data |
| 13:43.55 | KevICG | otherwise client A has to send all it's signup info to client B to determine if their version of events is the same |
| 13:44.19 | KevICG | if you've got a 40 man raid with a reserve list that can be a lot of data |
| 13:44.25 | KevICG | I'm just trying to be efficient |
| 13:44.41 | Beladona | you ahve to build the checksum in the first place though, which is essentially doing the same thing, except with your data only |
| 13:44.50 | Beladona | my question though |
| 13:45.08 | Beladona | will it prevent usera, from updating the event of userb if the checksum is different? |
| 13:45.13 | KevICG | checksums are easy to computer, if you've got 40 people on and don't use checksums you have to get each person to send all their data to sync all the events |
| 13:45.30 | KevICG | easy to compute |
| 13:45.42 | JoshBorke | I was considering using it in a mod is all |
| 13:45.54 | AnduinLothar | We have a CRC lib you can use for checksums |
| 13:45.56 | Beladona | there has to be something common among the two events so the system knows it is the same event right? |
| 13:46.00 | KevICG | that depends on what you mean by "updating". If you sign up for an event that is technically updating |
| 13:46.12 | AnduinLothar | PartyQuests uses it |
| 13:46.12 | Beladona | like a common checksum, and an updated checksum or something |
| 13:46.23 | KevICG | yes, the event id is the Event time + creating user + creation time |
| 13:46.40 | AnduinLothar | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4964 |
| 13:46.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:47.15 | KevICG | there's no need to assign a numeric ID, no two events should have the same event time + creating user + creation time |
| 13:47.33 | KevICG | numeric ID just causes problems, since there's no way to tell what the last ID used was |
| 13:47.50 | JoshBorke | Cide: morning |
| 13:47.54 | Cide | morning |
| 13:47.59 | Beladona | actually no two events should have the same creating user + creation time |
| 13:48.03 | Beladona | event time could be the same |
| 13:48.10 | Beladona | which makes one wonder why bother using it |
| 13:48.47 | Beladona | *clarification* not criticizing your work - just throwing in constructive thoughts |
| 13:48.50 | Beladona | =P |
| 13:48.52 | KevICG | because I have to make sure the events are sorted, and the events will need to be sorted by event time, so even though it's not technically going to be unique, I may as well have it part of the key |
| 13:49.13 | KevICG | I don't disagree that the true key is the creating user + creation time |
| 13:49.21 | KevICG | ot |
| 13:49.38 | KevICG | it's just easier to keep the events in a consistent sort order having that as part of the id |
| 13:49.52 | Beladona | that makes sense |
| 13:50.47 | Beladona | you should seriously consider a ui like the one used by Group Calendar though |
| 13:51.00 | Beladona | thats just my personal opinion |
| 13:51.22 | KevICG | UI comes last, framework and data first :) Can't design a UI until I know what data it's supposed to represent |
| 13:51.36 | JoshBorke | hehe, i'm going backwards :-D |
| 13:51.53 | Beladona | well |
| 13:51.53 | JoshBorke | i know what the ui should look like so I just have to figure out how to format the data |
| 13:51.53 | Beladona | there will always be ui considertations that alter your backend |
| 13:51.53 | KevICG | we'll certainly evaluate group calendar though, we don't want to reinvent the wheel |
| 13:52.02 | Beladona | so you have to be thinking about presentation too while building the backend |
| 13:52.19 | Beladona | otherwise you could end up with something horribly in-accessible |
| 13:52.50 | Beladona | when I design my addons, I design them with accessibility being one of the driving forces. People won't use it unless it is easy, and simply to use |
| 13:52.51 | KevICG | well, in a way that's what I'm trying to find out, since I'm not familiar with the constraints of the wow/lua system. what sort of things do you have in mind |
| 13:53.21 | AnduinLothar | meh... my computer and photoshop are being mean... it really just takes ages to do anythign with a 30 mb file.. |
| 13:53.30 | KevICG | beladona: heh, I used to be a professional UI designer, don't worry I'm not thinking of making some custom godawful ugly interface |
| 13:54.00 | Beladona | tis mostly just sticking to conventions. Things people are used to. Example: people are used to calendaring similar to things in Outlook, or iCal |
| 13:54.01 | KevICG | easy to use is a primary requirement, but IMO without knowing the backend, designing the UI is premature |
| 13:55.16 | AnduinLothar | imo if you have a good grasp of what the system is capible it's almost always better to make the ui first |
| 13:55.25 | AnduinLothar | but if you're not sure what you can get away with do the back end first |
| 13:56.13 | KevICG | so for now "user creates an event" I don't want to design the UI until I know what I'm going to have to get from the user in order to make that event. I could, but if it turns out that I need to at least allow for 20 different items and I don't have a tabbed window with options, I'm going to code myself a monster until I can go back and redo from the start |
| 13:57.27 | KevICG | may as well figure out what's going to be involved in the event first |
| 13:57.47 | Beladona | I usually create my backend and ui together. Mostly because it makes sense to wrap your backend around how you want the data to be gotten / presented |
| 13:58.09 | KevICG | anyway, that's a design philosophy issue, not necessarily relevant :) |
| 13:59.09 | Beladona | I am going to be messing with Group Calendar myself to implement Addon Messaging, since the author hasn't bothered to update in almost a month |
| 13:59.17 | KevICG | beladona: I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on that one. I've done a lot of UI work, and my personal experience leads me to believe that every time I design the UI without fully fleshing out the back end, I end up redesigning my UI |
| 13:59.44 | Beladona | hence the reason I do mine simultaneously |
| 13:59.46 | KevICG | mind you, I haven't done any UI at all with wow/lua |
| 13:59.50 | Beladona | I agree you can't do the ui first |
| 13:59.54 | Beladona | in most cases |
| 13:59.58 | AnduinLothar | If you're gonna use something like Telepathy or AceComm, that's half you back end right there. all you need to do is make a table or object on both ends to store the data and then accept it from the message events and integrate it into the user's table |
| 14:00.31 | KevICG | I was planning on using one of those two methods |
| 14:00.40 | AnduinLothar | only real issue is syncronization without sending the whole data table |
| 14:00.49 | AnduinLothar | and you can fix that with CRC |
| 14:00.51 | Beladona | and not sure we need to agree or disagree. This is all personal programming habits here. So I am not trying to get you to see "my side" or anything |
| 14:01.02 | Beladona | just providing my personal experience in lua/wow ui programming |
| 14:01.07 | KevICG | quick question about messaging, for /w channel comm, does telepathy/acecomm handle that transparently? |
| 14:01.19 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 14:01.23 | KevICG | sweet |
| 14:01.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:01.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@g173217.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 14:01.37 | AnduinLothar | you give is a message and you register for recieving messages |
| 14:01.59 | AnduinLothar | both call your callbacks when you recieve a message |
| 14:02.15 | AnduinLothar | if you use Telepathy you can send lua table objects |
| 14:02.24 | AnduinLothar | if you use AceComm you can send AceObjects |
| 14:02.34 | KevICG | is it a generic callback or specific to the message? Like OnMessage() or OnThisParticularMessage()? |
| 14:03.12 | AnduinLothar | i cant speak for AceComm, but Telepathy: www.wowwiki.com/Telepathy |
| 14:03.21 | KevICG | aye, I've looked at telepathy |
| 14:03.30 | KevICG | little bit :) |
| 14:03.50 | AnduinLothar | callback just passes message/object and sender name |
| 14:04.23 | KevICG | aye,was glad to see somebody else had done that, didn't really fancy doing it meself |
| 14:04.29 | AnduinLothar | if you feel like being fancy and are sending large messages you can even register for partial callbacks and make your own progress bar for information recieved |
| 14:04.53 | KevICG | oh, wish gatherersync had one of them |
| 14:05.47 | AnduinLothar | and you should be able to technically send any size data. |
| 14:06.06 | AnduinLothar | tho It's always best if you limit it as much as possible for speed |
| 14:07.11 | AnduinLothar | so like, if you use CRC, then when requesting updates send crc's of what you have. if the crc is different on the other side then send the updated event |
| 14:07.40 | AnduinLothar | that way you aren't sending the entire callendar everytime you request an update |
| 14:08.27 | KevICG | actually I'm going to tell everybody to whisper the requesting party their CRC, that way that client can process the update and won't bother anybody else unless there is an update |
| 14:08.49 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 14:08.55 | KevICG | client A logs in, clients B..N are supposedly synced (but don't have to be) |
| 14:09.04 | KevICG | client A says Send me your checksums |
| 14:09.28 | KevICG | if client A sees a checksum that is different on client F then he asks client F to send the event checksums |
| 14:09.39 | AnduinLothar | oh and btw. the time after loging and zoning is touchy. probably dont want to immediately be sending requests |
| 14:09.55 | AnduinLothar | better to send on request is what i've found |
| 14:09.55 | KevICG | s'fine, I can schedule events in the future correct? |
| 14:10.20 | AnduinLothar | Telepathy includes Chronos, a timing lib, so yes |
| 14:10.34 | KevICG | so when I log in, I can say "check for updates in a minute" |
| 14:10.38 | AnduinLothar | but I'd still recommend against automated syncing |
| 14:11.10 | AnduinLothar | because, what if the user doesn't look at the calander that session |
| 14:11.11 | KevICG | what would you propose as a syncing trigger then? |
| 14:11.29 | Mikk | AnduinLothar: Recent versions of CTL throttle very hard after zoning |
| 14:11.40 | AnduinLothar | It would probably be better to have an interface to request a sync |
| 14:11.43 | Mikk | I'm pretty sure the version you embed has that functionality |
| 14:12.14 | Mikk | Speaking of which I should push out a 800/4000 variant |
| 14:12.18 | AnduinLothar | mmm, not sure i updated the wowi one. did you upload it to Cosmos SVN? Your access is up |
| 14:12.25 | Mikk | Oh. You never told me. |
| 14:12.27 | KevICG | how will a person know the check the calendar if they don't get sync'd when they log in? |
| 14:12.44 | KevICG | or soon thereafter |
| 14:13.38 | AnduinLothar | request updates when they open the window |
| 14:14.02 | KevICG | I don't mind delaying after login for a given amount of time, but within a minute or two I'd like something to indicate if they've got new events available or if they've been bumped from an event |
| 14:14.06 | AnduinLothar | and has an ui display that says "Requesting latest calander" or something |
| 14:14.28 | AnduinLothar | mmmm |
| 14:15.09 | KevICG | essentially, I don't need clients B..N to go into a messaging frenzy when A logs in, since A can initiate it's own event swap |
| 14:15.29 | KevICG | but I do want A to initiate it, preferably by some automated means |
| 14:15.37 | AnduinLothar | mmm ok |
| 14:15.53 | AnduinLothar | well perhaps then just check the crcs automaticly |
| 14:16.04 | AnduinLothar | so you can notify the user if there was a change |
| 14:16.10 | AnduinLothar | make the user request the full change |
| 14:16.21 | AnduinLothar | just a suggestion |
| 14:16.55 | KevICG | understand that I'm still n00b, I'm just curious why you think I'd get into trouble waiting a minute from log in and requesting that other logged in clients send me their checksums |
| 14:17.43 | KevICG | I'm not really understanding what you think is at risk |
| 14:18.23 | AnduinLothar | you wouldn't really. unless the user openned the window before then |
| 14:18.48 | AnduinLothar | I've just had an incredible amount of trouble with and user flack from automated chat |
| 14:18.54 | KevICG | s'fine, can have an "is_initialized" flag |
| 14:20.51 | AnduinLothar | theorhetically it should be tweeked so it doesn't disconnect you. But wow was designed to disconnect you if you spam. So if they ever change it a little or heaven forbid there's a bug, and it starts disconnecting people again it's very hard to track down what's causing the isuue if you have some arbitrary timer unrelated to user input |
| 14:21.29 | KevICG | well, one of the nice things about using the checksums for the checking from updates, is that I can pretty much ignore a lot of syncing issues. If A requests checksums from B, B sends a checksum different than A back, C updates B to have the same checksum as A, when A gets the different checksum, it'll say "send me your event list" to B and when B gets around to sending it A will still compare the checksums to see what's diffe |
| 14:22.05 | KevICG | the only messages you should see are broadcasts of "Send me your master checksum", and "I've got an updated event" |
| 14:22.11 | KevICG | the rest can be /w |
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| 14:22.44 | KevICG | and if I use telepathy it does some build in flood control doesn't it? |
| 14:24.37 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 14:24.53 | AnduinLothar | ChatThrottleLib handles the throttling/flood control |
| 14:24.58 | AnduinLothar | Mikk here wrote it |
| 14:25.24 | AnduinLothar | I liked it better than what I had implemented, so i used it :) |
| 14:25.30 | KevICG | heh |
| 14:25.42 | AnduinLothar | plus, now i can blame him if things start disconnecting, even if it isn't his fault |
| 14:25.52 | KevICG | rofl |
| 14:27.15 | AnduinLothar | I might need to push a new version to wowi tho it looks like |
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| 14:33.22 | KevICG | what you were talking about about the login, does that apply to processing as well? like if I'm trying to parse all my data into working variables? |
| 14:34.18 | KevICG | err talking about *at* the login |
| 14:35.38 | KevICG | because if I've got UniUploader giving me a dump from something like phpRaid at startup, I'll need to parse my last login data, then parse the web based dump, and then reconcile the two |
| 14:36.20 | KevICG | again, I don't mind waiting a while to get to that, but I would like to get it done automatically after a min or two |
| 14:37.40 | AnduinLothar | if it's memory of processor intensive i'd recommend timing it after login and spread it out over a time period. Log in is when people tend to put all sorts of processing and it makes slower systems take forever to load in fully |
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| 14:41.57 | Kirkburn | Lookit, unpronounceable user name of the day! |
| 14:42.18 | krka | i thought that was my thing! |
| 14:42.20 | KevICG | I guess i'm foggy on what you'd consider processor intensive, I'd mostly be doing a little data crunching |
| 14:42.44 | Kirkburn | ScytheBlade1, what on earth ... ? :) |
| 14:42.57 | ScytheBlade1 | I've been disconnected for a day and a half. Blame the IRC daemon :) |
| 14:43.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.188.231.45) |
| 14:43.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I couldn't login with this nick, so I had to find an unused one in order to ghost a connection that's been dead for a day and a half ;) |
| 14:43.49 | Kirkburn | heh, well I'm not surprised that one was unused :) |
| 14:44.01 | ScytheBlade1 | If it was, I would have had some problems ;) |
| 14:44.45 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm still wondering how that dead nick stayed logged in for such a long period of time |
| 14:45.06 | Mikk | you left it hanging in a screen? =) |
| 14:45.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope, I use xchat |
| 14:45.23 | Mikk | xchat not completely dead? |
| 14:45.36 | Mikk | cause.. i mean.. the server sends pings... |
| 14:45.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Mikk, in theory ;) |
| 14:45.49 | Mikk | aye =P |
| 14:46.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Mikk, freenode uses their own, custom-built IRC daemon. Before, the nicks usually died off pretty quickly. Not so much anymore. |
| 14:46.48 | Kirkburn | I've got my X-Chat automatically ghosting Kirkburn when it switches to Kirkburn1 now |
| 14:47.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Eh. It's not hard to fix |
| 14:48.33 | ScytheBlade1 | But yeah, that was the reason for the long string of random chars :) |
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| 14:55.55 | JoshBorke | KevICG: he's basically recommending that you do your processing in a distributed manner that does a little bit at a time rather than all at once, for the sake of people logging in :-) |
| 14:56.52 | KevICG | when you're loading your data though, don't you usually have to do all that sort of at once? |
| 14:57.05 | KevICG | not necessarily at login mind you |
| 14:57.12 | KevICG | but all at the same time when you do load it |
| 14:57.56 | KevICG | I can also easily set the client to ignore update requests during the first few mins it's up |
| 14:58.54 | KevICG | I'm just thinking of the initial crunch when you load your last login data and reconcile it with the web based data |
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| 14:59.13 | KevICG | before you even worry about syncing with folks online |
| 15:04.06 | KevICG | oh and incidentally, all data requests of any size are going to be handled by request, I never broadcast event data, just /w when it is requested |
| 15:04.19 | KevICG | except the checksum of course |
| 15:06.00 | JoshBorke | KevICG: why not have a que for events to be processed and then process a small portion of the que every 5 seconds or so |
| 15:08.28 | KevICG | typically I don't believe I'll have a queue per se. I'll request an event's data from another client and they'll send me just that event. You saying I should have something where I save the sent data and check to see if it's been 5 seconds since the last one I processed and if not schedule to process it in 5 sec? |
| 15:09.03 | Mikk | KevICG: Just send it in "BULK" priority and don't worry too much about it imo. |
| 15:09.39 | JoshBorke | KevICG: no, i'm talking about the initial loading process where you reconcile differences between the phpRaid data and the in-game event data |
| 15:11.16 | KevICG | heh, well here I'm letting my ignorance shine through. I've not done any loading of variables, when you access your saved variable data, how easy is it to "pause" loading and resume at a later time? |
| 15:12.09 | KevICG | my current experience is limited to looking at the onload type events from a few addons |
| 15:13.49 | Mikk | You'll get them all loaded at startup |
| 15:13.56 | Mikk | Can't do much about that |
| 15:14.01 | KevICG | like gatherer, does a Gatherer_LoadZoneData(); right on the function Gatherer_OnLoad() |
| 15:14.03 | Mikk | I think josh is talking about the process of sending out updtaes |
| 15:15.31 | KevICG | meh, updates are low bandwidth and I can schedule them fairly easily. if I have events 1..n with me having different checksums for events 4, 8, and 22 I can schedule sending out the "send me your event data" |
| 15:16.00 | KevICG | that what you're saying? |
| 15:16.15 | KevICG | the phpRaid (or an analog) data will be just like saved variable data |
| 15:16.38 | KevICG | I can only load it on startup, since trying to bork something to grab it live would violate the TOU |
| 15:18.25 | Beladona | wouldn't this issue be simply solved by implementing chat throttling? Regardless of WHEN you send the request, the person on the other side will only send so much in a given period |
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| 15:19.05 | Beladona | as long as you throttle both requests AND responses, the data thoroughput shouldn't be too bad |
| 15:19.21 | JoshBorke | I am talking about the processing of the data, not the loading of it. determining how the phpRaid data conflicts/corresponds to the in-game data or will be that taken care of outside of game? |
| 15:19.31 | KevICG | I think (correct me if I'm wrong) they're just worried that default throttling wouldn't necessarily protect you if you reqested 60 different clients to send the checksum data |
| 15:20.27 | Beladona | doesn't matter if 60 people send you checksums, wouldn't it ignore any that matched? |
| 15:20.37 | KevICG | josh: weeeeelll... the framework we're thinking of will basically say "when you launch via UniUploader, prior to actually launching grab this data file from the Uniserver" |
| 15:20.46 | KevICG | yes, but you'd still get 60 responses right quick |
| 15:21.21 | KevICG | then the individual client says "given the rules for reconciling events, take my last saved variable data and sync it with the web data" |
| 15:22.06 | JoshBorke | when are you syncing it with the web data? |
| 15:22.17 | KevICG | when the user logs out, uniuploader auto updates the files to the web site (just like roster data) and the web side does the same trick with it's files so that next time somebody starts using Uni, it can send down the updated web sync file |
| 15:23.08 | KevICG | if we can get even 20% of our guildies to use uni to start the game, the web and the in game files should be reasonably in sync |
| 15:24.05 | KevICG | josh: the web data gets synced when the client initializes |
| 15:24.18 | Beladona | KevICG - you are sending this data through whisper? |
| 15:24.57 | KevICG | most of it. I broadcast the "send my your master checksum" and also the "I have a modified event for event <eventid> with <checksum>" |
| 15:25.12 | KevICG | err "send me* your master checksum" |
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| 15:25.18 | Beladona | don't you think it is a bad idea to send ANY data through whispers? |
| 15:25.37 | Beladona | I know personally I would NOT want to use an addon that spams tells |
| 15:25.38 | KevICG | heh that, in part, is what I'm asking. is it a bad idea? |
| 15:26.02 | Beladona | why not just leave it in SendAddonMessage? |
| 15:26.15 | KevICG | that broadcasts to everybody doesn't it? |
| 15:26.20 | KevICG | I can do that mind you |
| 15:26.27 | Beladona | yeah, but it is hidden |
| 15:26.29 | KevICG | I just don't know if that's more efficient or not |
| 15:26.47 | Beladona | you could use a prefix in your message |
| 15:26.54 | Beladona | like NameOfPlayer:Message |
| 15:27.05 | Beladona | to make it like a tell |
| 15:27.10 | KevICG | I'm fine with that |
| 15:27.22 | Beladona | that way only that player would aprse it, eveyrone else would ignore it |
| 15:28.03 | KevICG | is it better to say "60 people logged in send me a broadcast message with my name in the prefix that has your checksum" or "you 60 people whisper me your checksum" |
| 15:29.18 | Beladona | I am almost positive players would rather have an addon that works in the background without them seeing it, than having the data show up as tells |
| 15:29.19 | KevICG | I would think the latter, since that way 59 people don't have to look at the message and say "nope, not talking to me" |
| 15:29.19 | Mikk | ummm don't put player names in the prefix |
| 15:29.26 | Mikk | that doesn't scale very well |
| 15:29.32 | Beladona | I see it from an end-user standpoint |
| 15:29.47 | Beladona | if an end-user sees an addon that spams tells, I guarantee you people will throw a fit |
| 15:29.56 | JoshBorke | I agree, tells are bad |
| 15:30.07 | KevICG | fair enough, good to know :) |
| 15:30.29 | KevICG | mikk: how do you recommend identifying players? |
| 15:30.39 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 15:31.07 | Mikk | You use the addon's name in the prefix. Then you use the comms library to split data nicely. |
| 15:31.08 | Beladona | why identify them? |
| 15:31.38 | KevICG | because if I request checksums from 59 people it's nice to know which one has data different from what I have |
| 15:31.46 | Beladona | why not do request: data, then response: data. People not asking for a response won't bother |
| 15:31.54 | JoshBorke | you get their name in CHAT_MSG_ADDON |
| 15:31.58 | Mikk | Actually, you'll see the name of the player that send |
| 15:31.59 | Mikk | yea |
| 15:32.03 | Beladona | aye |
| 15:32.06 | KevICG | kk, problem solved |
| 15:32.18 | JoshBorke | :-) non-problem solved ;-) |
| 15:32.50 | KevICG | aye |
| 15:33.08 | KevICG | so tells == bad, I'll just use the addon channel |
| 15:33.17 | Beladona | thats what it is there for =P |
| 15:34.31 | KevICG | I wasn't sure how much overhead would be associated with 59 responses to a "send me your checksum" would be in the addon channel vs. in tells |
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| 15:34.31 | KevICG | of course, I can insert a random delay in the response |
| 15:34.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@w-mob201-128-62-98-216.public.utexas.edu) |
| 15:34.31 | KevICG | to try to space 'em out a bit |
| 15:34.38 | Corrodias | there's a library to prevent sending messages too quickly. i don't remember its name. |
| 15:34.40 | JoshBorke | it's just checking to see if they match right? |
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| 15:34.50 | KevICG | ya, all it will do is send the checksum |
| 15:34.50 | Mikk | http://www.wowwiki.com/ChatThrottleLib |
| 15:34.59 | Mikk | embedded by both Telepathy and AceComm |
| 15:35.03 | KevICG | corrodias: I'm thinking of using telepathy :) |
| 15:35.03 | JoshBorke | Corrodias: he's concerned about the processing time |
| 15:35.08 | JoshBorke | Mikk: and HealWatch! |
| 15:35.13 | Mikk | haha |
| 15:35.17 | Corrodias | ah |
| 15:35.23 | Mikk | yeah but HealWatch has crap all comms APIs =) |
| 15:35.25 | JoshBorke | the processing time required to parse 60 CHAT_MSG_ADDON events |
| 15:35.30 | Beladona | processing time is pretty quick. its the throttling that matter more |
| 15:35.33 | Beladona | imho |
| 15:35.57 | JoshBorke | especially a comparison of checksums would be even faster |
| 15:36.03 | Beladona | and if you code it right, you won't actually be processing 60 CHAT_MSG_ADDON messages |
| 15:36.17 | JoshBorke | Mikk: are you saying HealWatch is crap?! >| |
| 15:36.17 | Beladona | you will be processing the first that is newer, and ignoring any others (unless newer) |
| 15:36.51 | |FF|Im2good4u | i stil prefer the IsAddonLoaded9) check :p |
| 15:36.57 | wereHamster | I'm glad you'r not talking about healSync ;) |
| 15:37.42 | Mikk | JoshBorke: hahaha, no, i'm just saying it's not what I'd embed into my addon if i wanted a comms lib =) |
| 15:37.58 | KevICG | beladona: more or less. if user 1 is logging on and syncing with 2..n then after it finishes getting data from 2 it should be synced with 3..n |
| 15:38.02 | Corrodias | i'm compiling a personal guide for how to improve our performance in AV. please message me any tips you'd like to contribute, as i must go now to class. |
| 15:38.11 | Beladona | correct |
| 15:38.30 | Beladona | and it will be rare that you will have any that aren't the same among those 2...n, unless they are still updating as well |
| 15:38.35 | Beladona | which could be a switch |
| 15:38.45 | JoshBorke | if i'm updating, don't respond :-D |
| 15:38.56 | Beladona | i.e. set a global switch that says "I am not updated" and if they aren't finished updating, don't send data until you are |
| 15:39.05 | KevICG | there will be odd scenarios where user 27 may be out of sync, but essentially 1 will sync with 2, carry on to look at the checksum messages sent from 3..26 then sync with 27 |
| 15:39.57 | KevICG | if at any point it has to update an event that it believes is new it'll send out a broadcast saying "I think I have a new event, event ID, checksum" |
| 15:40.05 | KevICG | new/modified |
| 15:40.06 | Beladona | I see it more like this. a logs on. a send an update request. b - g respond, but only because they are up to date. h, i, and j don't send a response, because they are in the process of updating as well |
| 15:41.07 | KevICG | well, that's another kettle of fish, if I'm in the midst of processing an addon message and I get another message, does it interrupt or just queue it until the first processing routine is finished? |
| 15:41.31 | Beladona | you may have to have a switch on each event |
| 15:41.40 | Beladona | i.e. updated = true |
| 15:41.42 | KevICG | I can do it no matter what but like you said I may have to raise a "in processing" flag |
| 15:42.19 | wereHamster | Kirkburn, just FYI, the calibri numer font (from ClanFont) is not fixed width |
| 15:42.25 | Beladona | or better yet |
| 15:42.28 | Beladona | a status flag |
| 15:42.47 | Kirkburn | wereHamster, you sure? I was sure it was |
| 15:43.07 | Beladona | status = updated, pending |
| 15:43.18 | KevICG | ya, but about those events, does event 2 interrupt the processing of event1, or does the handler finish execution of event1 then go to the next queued message? |
| 15:43.43 | Beladona | for different events? |
| 15:43.48 | wereHamster | Kirkburn, if size is set to 24 then '9' is a bit less wide then the other numbers, with size=25 all have the same width.. |
| 15:43.51 | KevICG | same event |
| 15:44.03 | Beladona | can't interrupt |
| 15:44.10 | JoshBorke | a CHAT_MSG_ADDON event after another CHAT_MSG_ADDON event |
| 15:44.11 | KevICG | cool |
| 15:44.18 | Kirkburn | wereHamster, sound like a scaling problem with WoW :/ |
| 15:44.22 | Beladona | event1, would check if the checksum is different. If it is, it sets the flag for that event to processing |
| 15:44.27 | wereHamster | yep.. sorry about the noise |
| 15:44.29 | Kirkburn | I'm going to test it in Word |
| 15:44.51 | Beladona | if event2 fires, and sees the flag is processing, it would either queue (if you want to do queuing) or it doens't fire |
| 15:45.14 | KevICG | beladona: ya, thats sort of what I was thinking, wasn't sure just how wow/lua handled the event interrupts |
| 15:45.20 | Beladona | but only if the checksum is different |
| 15:45.26 | Beladona | if it isn't, there is no need to do anything |
| 15:45.52 | Kirkburn | Word is definately showing it as fixed width. I can understand that migth be annoying - there's an update to Office 2007 coming today which *might* have updated fonts, so I'll have a check. |
| 15:46.11 | Beladona | you can't really interrupt a function without lots of breakpoints that interact with other threads of the same function |
| 15:46.17 | KevICG | ya, that's the whole point of the checksums. even if I do somehow get the same data sent to me twice, first thing you do is say "well, is this different from what I've got" |
| 15:46.26 | Beladona | would require a lot of work, and not sure its worth it |
| 15:46.39 | KevICG | I exlicitely don't want to interrupt functions in progress |
| 15:47.20 | Beladona | I think the best thing would to create a central queue. Then have a function that processes that queue in order |
| 15:47.45 | Beladona | getting a CHAT_MSG_ADDON only sticks the request in the queue, if it needs to be that is |
| 15:48.33 | Beladona | and the other thing about a queue is, you can spread out the processing of that queue, to throttle it as fast or as slow as you want |
| 15:48.40 | KevICG | *thinking, smoke and stuff coming out ears* |
| 15:51.02 | Cairenn|sleep | "and stuff" ... ewwwww |
| 15:51.43 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 15:51.46 | JoshBorke | morning Cairenn|sleep |
| 15:52.02 | Cairenn|sleep | oh fiddle, does it still say |sleep? |
| 15:52.07 | JoshBorke | indeed |
| 15:52.24 | Cairenn|sleep | grrrr, hate this update, I don't see the |<whatever> for myself any more |
| 15:52.32 | Cairenn | I've been awake for hours now |
| 15:52.39 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 15:52.41 | Warla | whats sleep anyway |
| 15:52.58 | Warla | ohh i remember.. i sleep every tuesday.. when maintenance is.. |
| 15:53.18 | malreth | heh... i'm trying to justify to my managers that we should get rid of this one lab that i maintain... i must be crazy |
| 15:53.54 | malreth | "please sir... get rid of some of my work" |
| 15:58.07 | malreth | brb |
| 15:58.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 15:59.49 | malreth | ok... that's better |
| 15:59.57 | KevICG | beladona: so I send out the "send me your checksums", 59 folks reply, not syncronously. as I get the checksums, I run through them and ignore ones that are the same. when I get one that is different I send it a "give me your event checksums" (which will be a lump of event IDs + checksums). As I get these lumps of checksums I find from client X that he has different data for event 7. I check my queue to see if I'm currently |
| 16:00.34 | KevICG | that sort of what you have in mind? |
| 16:00.46 | *** part/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:00.55 | Beladona | sort of |
| 16:01.08 | KevICG | probaby have to queue the "send me your checksum list" too |
| 16:01.25 | KevICG | since in some guilds the event list could exceed the character limit of single messages |
| 16:01.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:01.46 | Mikk | That's not a problem if you use a comms lib, KevICG |
| 16:01.50 | Mikk | They'll split the messages for you |
| 16:02.02 | Mikk | Just put stuff you want to send in a table and you can send multiple variables no problem |
| 16:02.43 | KevICG | understood, just trying to avoid a case where user 1 logs in, sends out a "send me your checksum" and 59 people reply with a different checksum, resulting in client 1 sending out 59 "send me your checksum list" unnecessarily |
| 16:03.17 | KevICG | since users 2-60 are probably all using the same event list |
| 16:04.20 | Beladona | you log on, and go into an "updating" phase. You first request checksums, and get 59 replies. Any that have different checksums get put in an update queue. You then have a master function that processes that queue, and as it reaches a new queued item, it requests more data from that specirfic eprson who sent the checksum. You can do this by sending an addon messagee that says "hey SoandSo, send me the event data for checksum blahblahblah". You then b |
| 16:04.20 | KevICG | just have it queue the checksums it receives, looking for distinct occurences of checksums |
| 16:04.35 | Beladona | once done, the flag for that event is set to finished, and you go to the next queued item |
| 16:05.36 | KevICG | sorta, you have the added complication that since you have updated web info on login the process can go the other way too. Client 1 logging on may have signups from phpRaid |
| 16:05.52 | KevICG | so it may need to send out "hey, my stuff is newer" |
| 16:05.52 | Beladona | I would recommend using what Mikk mentioned though, as well as setup a throttle for processing the update queue |
| 16:06.07 | KevICG | ya, no worries, will use one of the message libraries |
| 16:06.21 | Beladona | well yeah, that would be handled in the update process |
| 16:06.34 | Beladona | if you have a newer checksum, you could stick that in another queue |
| 16:06.40 | Beladona | like an outgoing queue |
| 16:06.46 | Beladona | once your update queue is done, send your updates |
| 16:06.48 | KevICG | can't determine "newness" from checksum |
| 16:06.53 | KevICG | true |
| 16:07.04 | KevICG | outgoing queue is a good plan |
| 16:07.06 | Beladona | you need to determine newness from something |
| 16:07.35 | Beladona | the id I assume |
| 16:07.43 | KevICG | there is no "new" only "different' when doing checksum. you actually have to get the event details to determine who is more up to date |
| 16:08.06 | Beladona | you could reduce the processing further if you sent a checksum and an updated time |
| 16:08.26 | KevICG | update time is really irrelevant though |
| 16:08.41 | Beladona | for example, what if I haven't logged in since last month, and an event I have has a different checksum, but yours doens't know if mine is newer or not |
| 16:08.49 | Beladona | then they have to send the data back and forth to see whose is newer |
| 16:08.54 | KevICG | correct |
| 16:08.59 | Beladona | which is basically what you are trying to prevent |
| 16:09.04 | Beladona | comparison of actual event data |
| 16:09.29 | KevICG | no, that's actually inevitable. GEM incidentally doesn't use checksums, so it has a periodic timer that just spams what it knows about everything |
| 16:09.56 | KevICG | we just want to say "are you different? if so send me your data and I'll figure out who is more up to date" |
| 16:09.59 | JoshBorke | hm, don't forget bela, that there are multiple steps to his plan. the initial checksum is over the entire event database. once a difference is found, then a second list of checksums is passed, one for each event |
| 16:10.04 | Beladona | I still think it would be better to have a timestamp, along with the checksum. if the checksum is different, get the timestamp. if the timestamp is newer, get the whole event |
| 16:10.38 | Beladona | I know Josh, I just think it needs a third |
| 16:10.50 | KevICG | say you have this scenario. User A updates the event via the web at 2pm. User B, in the game updates the event at 3pm. User C logs in at 4pm. what relevance is the timestamp? |
| 16:10.54 | Beladona | the third, a timestamp, minimizes processing even further |
| 16:11.19 | Beladona | that issue still exists |
| 16:11.25 | Beladona | even with your current implementation |
| 16:11.33 | KevICG | user B can't see user A's event since they were logged in when user A changed it |
| 16:11.49 | KevICG | they don't see user A's event until user C logs in at 4pm |
| 16:12.08 | Beladona | right, but then they send the event data to each other |
| 16:12.15 | Beladona | what determines which one is right? |
| 16:12.57 | Beladona | what, do you append some data rather than replace it? |
| 16:12.59 | KevICG | technically both are right but it depends on the type of modification. a "new" event is always right. |
| 16:13.21 | KevICG | a modified event you have to make a set of rules for determining |
| 16:13.37 | KevICG | and just make sure those rules are always applied the same |
| 16:13.42 | Beladona | that will cause a ton of processing for each event |
| 16:13.57 | KevICG | so say you have an event "MC run" at 9pm |
| 16:14.09 | KevICG | say existing already |
| 16:14.41 | Beladona | and thenm Timmy, signs up in-game, and Tommy signs up on the website. You have to append Tommy to the in-game version |
| 16:14.42 | JoshBorke | Mikk: what changed in CTL? |
| 16:14.45 | KevICG | user A signs up via web at 2pm. User B signs up from in game at 3pm. User C logs on at 4pm with the web data |
| 16:14.47 | Beladona | I understand that part |
| 16:15.10 | Mikk | JoshBorke: 800cps, 4000 max burst. some servers seem to be crankier than most others. |
| 16:15.24 | JoshBorke | ah, cool |
| 16:15.24 | Beladona | timestamp still helps |
| 16:15.38 | Mikk | (down from 1000cps, 8000 burst) |
| 16:16.05 | Mikk | it'll be in the ace svn whenever it's operational again |
| 16:16.14 | KevICG | beladona: aye, each modification of an event will have an associated timestamp, but the checksums can only determine that something is different |
| 16:16.35 | Beladona | not arguing that point |
| 16:16.52 | KevICG | so in the above, if we go with the flat rule "sign up time gives precedence" then when user C logs in, User B will be bumped up a slot from User A |
| 16:17.10 | Beladona | depending on how active your guild is, though, you will likely have a LOT different at each login. Just trying to reduce the amount of processing needed every time you log in |
| 16:17.18 | KevICG | but when I'm comparing the list of checksums I don't care about that. |
| 16:17.36 | KevICG | it's enough to know when C logs in that B has different data |
| 16:17.49 | KevICG | from C that is |
| 16:18.02 | KevICG | C will say "B, give me your event checksums bitch" |
| 16:18.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tyroney (n=tyroney@66.239.241.162.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:18.28 | KevICG | B will send them to C, C will say "ah MC run is different" then ask B to send the MC run info |
| 16:18.33 | Beladona | wondering how bad it would be to separate the data for each event as well |
| 16:18.42 | Beladona | attendees is going to always change |
| 16:18.50 | Beladona | whereeas event data might not |
| 16:18.54 | Mikk | http://www.wowwiki.com/StringHash <- good checksumming function btw |
| 16:19.07 | KevICG | mikk: there's actually a CRC lib on wowi |
| 16:19.10 | Beladona | in other words, a checksum for the event, and a checksum for attendance |
| 16:19.24 | Mikk | This is better than CRC :-P |
| 16:19.40 | KevICG | CRC is standard and the web side is going to have to perform the same checks on its end |
| 16:19.40 | Beladona | that way you can only get the part that changed, reducing overhead |
| 16:19.48 | Mikk | KevICG: ergh, good point |
| 16:20.28 | Cide | the stringhash is a simple function though, you could just implement it in what language you use |
| 16:20.41 | KevICG | true, but the event data is probably not going to change that often, 90% of your changes will be attendance |
| 16:20.41 | Beladona | this is all irrelevant of course until you actually start testing |
| 16:20.53 | Beladona | can't see the actual data overhead until it is in operation |
| 16:21.06 | Beladona | thats what I said Kev |
| 16:21.17 | Beladona | thats why I was saying why not segment the data into two parts |
| 16:21.24 | Beladona | event data, attendance data |
| 16:21.29 | Beladona | only update the aprt that changed |
| 16:21.33 | Beladona | part* |
| 16:21.34 | KevICG | but attendance is tied to the event |
| 16:21.42 | Beladona | right.... |
| 16:22.06 | KevICG | so if attendance changes, that effectively says the event has changed |
| 16:22.43 | Beladona | not neceesarily |
| 16:23.02 | KevICG | how could a change to attendence not mean something about the event has changed? |
| 16:23.05 | Beladona | I am just looking at ways to reduce data transmission |
| 16:23.20 | Beladona | if you only need to get the attendance, why not only send the attendance? |
| 16:23.21 | tyroney | What's a good class to roll up on test? (for testing, of course.) |
| 16:23.24 | KevICG | no worries, it's a good discussion :) |
| 16:23.42 | Beladona | if nothing in the actual event has changed, i.e. date, time, event name, etc... |
| 16:23.49 | Beladona | but attendance has |
| 16:23.56 | Beladona | which will probably usually be the case |
| 16:24.06 | KevICG | ah see what you're saying |
| 16:24.39 | KevICG | so master checksum for all events, event checksum that is the result of event data checksum + attendance data checksum? |
| 16:26.07 | Beladona | yeah |
| 16:26.29 | Beladona | like event:attendance |
| 16:27.16 | KevICG | fair enough. that's pretty good considering some of the high falutin' ideas we have planned for some more unusual event types |
| 16:27.40 | KevICG | well after first release :) |
| 16:28.36 | JoshBorke | tyroney: whatever class you need to test with :-D |
| 16:28.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com) |
| 16:29.02 | KevICG | depends on what you're testing, but warlocks make a good case for pet/spell/melee testing |
| 16:29.27 | tyroney | I'm class agnostic, and I figure there must be some class that's more prone to having bugs I can help notice. |
| 16:29.28 | JoshBorke | and dying too |
| 16:29.37 | tyroney | Warlocks are quite exciting. |
| 16:29.42 | KevICG | warlocks never die, they just go to hell and back |
| 16:29.56 | JoshBorke | well, i mean you cast test what happens when you die without having to run back all the time ;-D |
| 16:30.57 | Tem | Kirkburn, how are you doing that in xchat? I couldn't find the option last night |
| 16:31.17 | tyroney | I think I'll just make a warlock and give him an evil name. Maybe Eric. |
| 16:31.28 | KevICG | I call mine DirePaul |
| 16:31.35 | Kirkburn | It's not entirely perfect - it has to log into an alternate nick to ghost the previous one, but it means I can switch back immediately |
| 16:31.51 | Tem | Kirkburn, that's fine, but how? |
| 16:32.19 | Kirkburn | Tem, Network List, Freenode, edit, Connect Command: ns ghost [main username] [password] |
| 16:32.33 | Tem | oh |
| 16:32.40 | tyroney | result summary from google: |
| 16:32.42 | tyroney | "Evil baby names for girls. ... Evil Names for Baby. Evil names. 3 Evil baby names for girls. Displaying for Evil names 1-3." |
| 16:33.22 | KevICG | lorena bobbit |
| 16:34.54 | Beladona | gotta pick a class that works with what you are testing. I have done addond that cause errors on anything other than classes that have stances/shapeshifts, so tend to pick one of those |
| 16:34.56 | Tem | Kirkburn, that works, but it's very static |
| 16:35.07 | Beladona | but it depends |
| 16:35.09 | Kirkburn | How do you mean? |
| 16:36.15 | Kirkburn | I don't know of a way to ghost a user without logging in first - anyone? |
| 16:36.26 | Tem | no that's fine |
| 16:36.37 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:36.47 | Tem | Just that my 'main' nick changes |
| 16:36.54 | Tem | and using that command won't account for that |
| 16:37.55 | Cairenn | you don't have them all linked? |
| 16:38.09 | tyroney | Do I have to go and learn about irc now? |
| 16:38.16 | Tem | Cairenn, I do have them linked |
| 16:39.03 | Tem | yes, you are |
| 16:39.11 | KevICG | is there a nickserv here? |
| 16:39.20 | Tem | KevICG, aye |
| 16:39.24 | KevICG | which bot? |
| 16:39.29 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:39.31 | Tem | not in the channel |
| 16:39.59 | tyroney | NickServ |
| 16:40.12 | Tem | Cairenn, I want my client to forcibly not change my nick when it gets disconnected |
| 16:40.20 | KevICG | alas, already owned |
| 16:40.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:40.32 | Cairenn | Tem: ah |
| 16:40.35 | Kirkburn | Genius timing that, I got disconnected |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@g173217.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 16:42.23 | Tem | though, I guess it would need a special case to not forcibly take back a nick if it was ghosted... |
| 16:43.40 | tyroney|work | I think I did this the right way. |
| 16:45.32 | tyroney|work | Good name for an angry gnome? |
| 16:45.38 | KevICG | does the nickserve prune old nicks? |
| 16:45.43 | KevICG | that haven't logged in? |
| 16:45.50 | KevICG | napoleon |
| 16:45.57 | JoshBorke | you can ask it to be KevICG |
| 16:46.01 | JoshBorke | on the freenode website |
| 16:46.18 | KevICG | www.freenode.com? |
| 16:46.25 | Cairenn | aye |
| 16:47.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KrteK (n=KrteK@dhcp-83-219-110-174.customers.tvtnet.ch) |
| 16:49.20 | tyroney|work | I'll call him Flibble. |
| 16:53.37 | Mikk | Is "CastParty" in cosmos? |
| 16:54.15 | KevICG | Josh: the nick kevorkian hasn't been used in over a year, the website says to "ask a staffer" to expire it. what channel might I go to, to make such a request? |
| 16:54.32 | Gryphen | Mikk no |
| 16:55.18 | Tem | ok.. what gives |
| 16:55.24 | Tem | I can't seem to install Eclipse |
| 16:56.16 | KevICG | josh, nevermind, RTFMing |
| 16:56.28 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 16:56.44 | kergoth | KevICG: #freenode perhaps? the channel with the exact same name as this irc network? :P |
| 16:57.05 | KevICG | aye, too obvious for me apparently |
| 16:57.41 | Tem | Anyone having this issue with wow? It takes like a day to start up |
| 16:57.46 | tyroney|work | Wait, have daggers always stuck in things? |
| 16:57.53 | Cairenn | not I Tem |
| 16:57.54 | Gryphen | think he is using cosmos template or something for the castparty page |
| 16:58.08 | Tem | it just sorta sits there at about 28MB for about a minute |
| 16:58.09 | Gryphen | it has nothing to do with cosmos |
| 16:58.15 | Tem | then it grows to 100MB |
| 16:58.17 | Cide | Nintendo Wii is being released on Nov 19 for $250 |
| 16:58.19 | Tem | and THEN it appears |
| 16:58.37 | Kirkburn | Earlier than Japan, amazingly |
| 16:59.00 | Kirkburn | Tomorrow we'll get the EU news |
| 16:59.12 | KevICG | what date is BC out? |
| 16:59.23 | Tem | my guess is the 2 year anniversary |
| 16:59.31 | Mikk | Tem: I get that too. Haven't bothered to investigate much |
| 16:59.48 | Tem | do you have zips in your addon directory, Mikk? |
| 16:59.51 | Mikk | I think I heard someone talking about it earlier.. Switching to OpenGL mode rather than DirectX can apparently help |
| 16:59.54 | Mikk | Yes |
| 16:59.56 | Mikk | Plenty |
| 17:00.04 | [floyd] | Can anyone point me to an (online) resource that goes over how to modify/subclass default UI elements. In particular I'm interested in rendering overlays over the map view. |
| 17:00.50 | Mikk | You wouldn't do that. You'd just place frames on top of the map frame. |
| 17:00.52 | Mikk | No subclassing. |
| 17:01.33 | [floyd] | Cool enough with me, thanks. |
| 17:01.54 | Tem | Mikk, I suspect the zip files are the cause, I'm just too lazy to move them |
| 17:04.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor` (n=yo@dslb-088-064-179-053.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:06.31 | Kirkburn | Whee, getting Office 2007 B2TR :) |
| 17:11.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:11.44 | MentalPower|Univ | Kirkburn: theres anu pdate? |
| 17:11.50 | MentalPower|Univ | Kirkburn: theres an update? |
| 17:11.54 | MentalPower|Univ | grr... |
| 17:12.02 | Kirkburn | Yep |
| 17:12.10 | Kirkburn | http://www.jcxp.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10422&st=0 |
| 17:12.15 | Kirkburn | You have to have Beta 2 installed though |
| 17:14.10 | MentalPower|Univ | I already do (I think) |
| 17:14.27 | Kirkburn | Eep, I need to find my Beta 2 key |
| 17:15.25 | MentalPower|Univ | is there a way to know ifyou have Beta2 or some other version of Office 2007? |
| 17:15.48 | jaxdahl | Cide |
| 17:15.52 | jaxdahl | is the Wii coming with games? |
| 17:15.55 | jaxdahl | for the $250 one |
| 17:16.42 | Cide | it said it comes with Wii Sports |
| 17:16.46 | Cide | no idea other than that |
| 17:16.57 | Kirkburn | If you open, say, Word 2007, go to the Office menu, Word Options, Resources, the version number is at the bottom |
| 17:17.24 | Kirkburn | (Beta 2 is 12.0.4017) |
| 17:19.18 | Kirkburn | Yeah, I've only seen Wii Sports confirmed. And there's only one model. |
| 17:19.34 | Kirkburn | And one colour, white. |
| 17:20.50 | KevICG | I shall paint mine florescent pink and run around with it going "wiiiiiiiiii" |
| 17:21.13 | Kirkburn | I reserve the right to give you strange looks |
| 17:21.19 | tyroney|work | I'm waiting for controller prices. My friend is getting one, and I'm always visiting, so I won't need my own machine. |
| 17:21.19 | KevICG | granted |
| 17:21.34 | Kirkburn | $40 for the wiimote |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _aLF (n=Alexandr@d213-103-94-173.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 17:21.46 | Kirkburn | And I think $20 for the nunchuck |
| 17:22.04 | tyroney|work | So about 60. Not too painful, I guess. |
| 17:22.24 | Kirkburn | "Games will cost roughly $49.99" |
| 17:22.56 | KevICG | calling something a wiimote just invites elmer fudd references |
| 17:23.14 | tyroney|work | Right now my cube lives at his house. So I'll be leaving my games there, and trading hte cube in for credit towards a wiimote. |
| 17:23.43 | Kirkburn | "Virtual console games will be $5 for NES, $8 for SNES, $10 for N64." And I just confirmed the controller prices. |
| 17:25.18 | Kirkburn | www.wii.com is now active, too :) |
| 17:26.03 | Beladona | wooh |
| 17:26.36 | Beladona | some jerk was spamming chat last night in IF with gold ads, so I reported him. Got a canned GM response, but hopefully they will do something =D |
| 17:26.39 | Cairenn | rofl: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/9/5kirkpatrick.html |
| 17:26.47 | Cairenn | and http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/5/5bryan.html |
| 17:28.23 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 17:29.18 | Cairenn | awwwww, poor cookie monster |
| 17:29.37 | Kirkburn | "Don't get me started on Big Bird! He unnaturally gigantic talking canary!" :) |
| 17:30.44 | Cairenn | I used to do a good Grover imitation, when my daughter was just a wee little thing. Made her giggle. :) |
| 17:31.25 | Cairenn | she just rolls her eyes at me now |
| 17:31.35 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 17:31.59 | yacoob | Cairenn: aaaargh. |
| 17:32.12 | Cairenn | lol |
| 17:32.12 | yacoob | Cairenn: my imagination created a vivid image of 'rolling one's eyes' :D |
| 17:32.39 | Cairenn | that's okay, whenever she rolls her eyes at me, I just roll them right back to her |
| 17:33.28 | Cairenn | I don't leave her stuck with no eyes, no need to fret |
| 17:33.29 | Kirkburn | Blimey, the condition must be hereditary |
| 17:34.07 | Kirkburn | I thought it was just you with the removable eyes... :/ |
| 17:34.28 | Cairenn | careful Kirkburn, or I'll use them to give you .... The Stare |
| 17:34.29 | Kirkburn | Or should that be: .. / |
| 17:34.50 | Kirkburn | Oooh-errr |
| 17:34.51 | KevICG | my son doesn't do the eye roll thing yet. he just gives me the long suffering sigh of doom |
| 17:34.59 | Cairenn | KevICG: lol |
| 17:35.11 | Cairenn | Kirkburn: also known as ... The Look |
| 17:35.25 | KevICG | as in "my life is done, I shall lay myself down and die on this spot because of the unreasonable demands you have made to put my shoes away" |
| 17:35.58 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 17:36.16 | Beladona | hmm |
| 17:36.26 | Kirkburn | I totally agree, such completely unreasonable demands! :) |
| 17:37.03 | Kirkburn | The middle of the floor *is where they belong*, silly parents |
| 17:37.13 | KevICG | I'm still trying to determine how it was that he managed to lose a shoe under the couch (our couch has perhaps a 1/2 inch clearance to the floor) |
| 17:37.35 | Kirkburn | Maybe he was aiming for a vase nearby? :P |
| 17:37.54 | KevICG | you'd have to actually lift the couch up and push the shoe underneath while it was suspended |
| 17:38.02 | Cairenn | I have to love it when it's a hardship to bring the laundry down ... not "do" the laundry, just bring it down ... |
| 17:38.18 | Cairenn | she got over that one in a big hurry |
| 17:39.01 | Cairenn | "fine, too much effort for you to bring it down? too much effort for me to do it *at all*" ... some time later "Mom, I've no clean clothes ...." "So do something about it" |
| 17:39.39 | KevICG | "but MoOoOoM (capitalization denotes extra syllables extraneously added for effect) that's sOoOo unfair" |
| 17:39.48 | Industrial | no its not |
| 17:39.50 | Industrial | work bitch! |
| 17:39.52 | Industrial | :> |
| 17:40.01 | Beladona | I love that commercial |
| 17:40.11 | Beladona | "Dad, I think its time you got me a cell phone" |
| 17:40.17 | Beladona | "Son, I think its time you got a job" |
| 17:40.37 | Industrial | home being my parents' house :p |
| 17:40.55 | Cairenn | KevICG: nope, she didn't go there ... she promptly gathered up her laundry and did it herself |
| 17:41.03 | Cairenn | lesson learned |
| 17:41.49 | Cairenn | mind you, this was when she was ... 8? 6? ... something like that .... long time back, now |
| 17:42.26 | zenzelezz | oh god... every time a mage dies today half the guild goes "wtf healers do you hate <name>??" |
| 17:42.48 | Cairenn | good lord, this installation is taking longer than the bloody download took |
| 17:42.57 | Industrial | go broadband! |
| 17:42.57 | zenzelezz | mage got kicked from guild yesterday after repeatedly blaming the healers each time she died, accusing them of having a conspiracy against her, hating her and whatnot |
| 17:43.09 | Industrial | lol |
| 17:43.12 | Cairenn | lol |
| 17:43.50 | Industrial | get a warlock + vampiric embrace? (just saying things, dont actually KNOW if thats useful) |
| 17:43.56 | Kirov | Probably wasn't true the first time they accused them, but after that ... |
| 17:44.14 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 17:44.41 | Beladona | yay for silly stupid typos! |
| 17:44.42 | Cairenn | I'd be disinclined to acquiesce to their requests for healing after that |
| 17:45.04 | Beladona | I guess toc files don't like / instead of \ for directory paths |
| 17:45.09 | Kirkburn|afk | Be back later! |
| 17:45.16 | Cairenn | later Kirkburn|afk |
| 17:45.20 | Industrial | Sorry im mage-disabled; cant click on the unitframes of mages! |
| 17:45.44 | gnorlish | shutup mage hater |
| 17:45.51 | gnorlish | you're just jealous of the dps |
| 17:46.11 | KevICG | mages and destruction spec warlocks :) and rogues that can't master the use of feint |
| 17:46.21 | KevICG | let 'em all die |
| 17:46.24 | Industrial | go go gadget shadowpriest? |
| 17:46.27 | KevICG | burn baby! |
| 17:47.31 | Industrial | Anyone ever made half life 1 crosshairs? |
| 17:48.03 | Cairenn | hubby did, don't think I've the files on this computer though |
| 17:48.13 | Industrial | hmm having probs with the palette :( |
| 17:48.28 | Industrial | http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/128/image2cs4.png |
| 17:48.30 | Industrial | :> |
| 17:48.49 | Industrial | (sexy little crosshair xD) |
| 17:49.50 | zenzelezz | "ffs i died while afk, why didnt you heal me isnted of MT?" |
| 17:50.01 | zenzelezz | I have a feeling this won't die any time soon |
| 17:50.09 | Cairenn | lol |
| 17:50.47 | Industrial | if yer afk MOOOVE away feggit. and tell the CL that you are going afk hell like you more. |
| 17:50.59 | Cairenn | brb |
| 17:51.00 | Industrial | ;x |
| 17:51.03 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:51.13 | zenzelezz | they're all joking :) |
| 17:51.29 | KevICG | folks who think there is a healer conspiracy against them in my experience are correct, but only because they're annoying little idiots who have no idea what aggro management is |
| 17:51.59 | KevICG | whadaya mean wait for sunders!? |
| 18:00.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 18:05.33 | *** part/#wowi-lounge KevICG (n=supervis@rrcs-70-62-123-75.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:06.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:06.21 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 18:08.52 | zenzelezz | that wasn't "right" back :-o |
| 18:09.24 | Cairenn | awww, you missed me! |
| 18:09.49 | Kirov | http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/25055.html |
| 18:10.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | hahahaha 15g repair cost and a lot of stuff was either >50% or 75% |
| 18:10.38 | Cairenn | I presume you guys have all seen the video of the PUG that killed Thrall, yes? |
| 18:10.40 | zenzelezz | must be good equipment |
| 18:10.44 | zenzelezz | O_o |
| 18:10.51 | Kirov | a pug killed Thrall? |
| 18:10.55 | Cairenn | indeed |
| 18:11.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | hwl gear and someodd :P |
| 18:11.01 | Cairenn | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8344691299115038194 |
| 18:11.14 | zenzelezz | don't remember seeing that... but did see the one where they kited Thunderaan to Thrall |
| 18:12.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SoothingR (n=neogeo-x@ip51cf1265.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 18:14.02 | JoshBorke | BLAH! |
| 18:14.07 | JoshBorke | it just crashed my firefox :-( |
| 18:14.21 | Cairenn | ran fine for me |
| 18:16.20 | JoshBorke | yea, it does that to me some times :-( |
| 18:17.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | only like 500 honor? :[ |
| 18:17.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:17.21 | malreth | i'm hungry! |
| 18:17.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:19.17 | tyroney|work | I'd offer you an oreo, but sending cookies over IRC is dangerous. |
| 18:20.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Warla (i=Darky28@228-167.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 18:21.59 | Beladona | whats that little charging meter under his player frame in taht video? |
| 18:22.08 | tyroney|work | energy ticks |
| 18:22.18 | Beladona | part of default ui? |
| 18:22.21 | Kirov | Beladona - energy watch |
| 18:22.24 | Beladona | ahh |
| 18:22.25 | Kirov | or something similar |
| 18:22.43 | Beladona | and how about that bar on the right side, with the green dot |
| 18:22.52 | Beladona | wish the damn video wasn't so poor quality |
| 18:24.09 | Cairenn|afk | hahahah: http://www.darklegacycomics.com/56.html |
| 18:24.18 | Kirov | Beladona - recap |
| 18:24.36 | Kirov | green means it's recording combat |
| 18:24.45 | Beladona | sorry, I don't typically do the whole "whats this addon", but it looked interesting |
| 18:33.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (i=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 18:38.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dreyruugr (n=chatzill@66.77.144.6) |
| 18:42.23 | tyroney|work | I think I'm going to make a new energy ticker. Just a spark that flies back and forth, knight rider style. |
| 18:43.08 | tyroney|work | across the energy bar |
| 18:43.14 | yacoob | Yaet. |
| 18:43.55 | Kirov | you'll need the sound |
| 18:44.11 | tyroney|work | Hmm... |
| 18:44.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:45.24 | yacoob | *cough*tick*cough* |
| 18:46.06 | malreth | you humans require so much maintainance! |
| 18:46.58 | malreth | is it supposed to sound like that? |
| 18:48.29 | yacoob | TICK. |
| 18:51.16 | Mikma | nevcairiel: !"# :P |
| 18:53.42 | Corrodias | nobody messaged me any AV tips :( |
| 18:53.56 | yacoob | "don't die" |
| 18:55.09 | malreth | "AV is a good place to get Whitescale Salmon" |
| 18:55.59 | Mikma | Corrodias: heh |
| 18:57.00 | malreth | "With 4 minutes to go before capping the FW RH, you'll make many friends by pulling all of the warmongers at once right away." |
| 18:59.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-39-241.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:59.55 | Mikma | http://www.darklegacycomics.com/30.html |
| 19:02.53 | Corrodias | i'm trying to think of ways to improve the performance of our side in battle group 1, but i'm not the most experienced person |
| 19:04.32 | Corrodias | i believe i have identified several problems with how we play, and ways to improve them, at least |
| 19:04.39 | Corrodias | but i have yet to figure out how to get people to listen to me |
| 19:05.05 | malreth | one word: Reputation |
| 19:05.14 | malreth | don't start off as a leader |
| 19:05.18 | malreth | start off as a good person |
| 19:05.26 | malreth | people will start to follow over time |
| 19:05.34 | tyroney|work | Haven't played a rogue since the blizz. sct appeared. Does it always scroll "<Eviscerate>" by? I think I know when I hit a button. |
| 19:06.22 | JoshBorke | while i think that would work previously, with such a large base of players to pull from, it'll be much harder to get that large base |
| 19:06.59 | malreth | JoshBorke: that's like saying lv 70 will be harder to get to than lv 60 |
| 19:07.09 | malreth | it just takes time, that's all |
| 19:07.10 | Corrodias | malreth: well, i haven't tried demanding that people do things, yet. i like to give suggestion. >_> |
| 19:07.22 | Corrodias | i imagine you have to be visible to become known |
| 19:07.53 | malreth | the best advice i was ever given on how to be a good leader is to give complements |
| 19:08.12 | malreth | people will follow those who treat them nicely |
| 19:08.21 | malreth | you don't have to try hard, really. |
| 19:08.41 | malreth | just a casual, "excellent work defending the bs" |
| 19:08.50 | malreth | or something like that |
| 19:08.57 | yacoob | 'That was an excellent move! not only you won on the threat list, we can also watch the way to instance in cool blue shade!' |
| 19:09.34 | malreth | oh wow! it talks too! |
| 19:10.05 | yacoob | what, where!? :) |
| 19:10.18 | malreth | how do you humans speak out of the same hole that you eat with? seems counterintuitive. |
| 19:10.19 | Corrodias | i do compliment and encourage the defense and offense when they do things right |
| 19:10.25 | tyroney|work | I'm having too much fun with this angry gnome rogue. I might have to delete my current rogue. Again |
| 19:10.33 | Corrodias | which does happen sometimes |
| 19:13.04 | gnorlish | i swear a lot |
| 19:13.12 | gnorlish | and call people bleeding heart commies |
| 19:13.57 | yacoob | onyxiawipe.swf? |
| 19:14.26 | Corrodias | i have come up with some fantastic tips, though. one such tip is "don't abandon the graveyard you just captured and leave it defenseless so it only takes one guy to send you respawning back at the cave" |
| 19:15.20 | gnorlish | how about "don't stand 40 yards away from 8 hunters when you can rush them and their damage gets cut by 400%" |
| 19:15.36 | yacoob | Corrodias: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7171679295371790677&q=pvp+for+noobs :) |
| 19:15.45 | yacoob | bah, not that one... |
| 19:16.02 | yacoob | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7841802512113765045&q=pvp+for+dummies this one :) |
| 19:16.31 | Corrodias | i'm already downloading a ton from google video, but i'll watch that in a few minutes |
| 19:17.25 | Corrodias | our offense often tries to fight the allies in small numbers and at a distance, which are the opposites of good ideas |
| 19:17.39 | Corrodias | the defense is very slow at regrouping at the next objective |
| 19:17.46 | yacoob | with xrealm bg, I get a lot of stupid groups, that just prance around, farming honour |
| 19:18.07 | yacoob | unfortunatelly, most of the time it's against even more stupid group, and we win >_< |
| 19:19.00 | malreth | defense on alliance side is pretty straightforward |
| 19:19.14 | malreth | rush to stonehearth and kill things |
| 19:19.23 | malreth | keep recapping towers |
| 19:19.40 | malreth | if you have to, fall back to stormpike gy |
| 19:20.02 | malreth | when that happens, send 5 guys to cap the stonehearth gy 4tw |
| 19:20.21 | malreth | then watch as the horde offense collapses |
| 19:21.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 19:21.28 | Corrodias | that's about it |
| 19:21.39 | Corrodias | but you have 5 guys you can send to recap something |
| 19:21.52 | Corrodias | we often run a defense of less than 5 people in one place at a time at all |
| 19:25.05 | malreth | yeah... that would be... yeah... i've noticed that too! |
| 19:25.14 | Corrodias | i have yet to determine the optimum balance of D players vs O players... somewhere between 10-15 on D, i think |
| 19:25.20 | malreth | well, from the other side, that is |
| 19:26.07 | malreth | two groups would be enough to prevent the alliance from say, killing Galv in the usual amount of time |
| 19:26.13 | tyroney|work | I thought I just read this somewhere. Determining a unit's power type? (rage, energy, mana) |
| 19:26.25 | malreth | heck... even just 3 people can wreak havoc |
| 19:26.31 | Corrodias | we've repelled them at Galv with as little as 5, actually |
| 19:26.39 | Corrodias | although after 3 waves, the allies typically give up and zerg IB GY |
| 19:26.58 | malreth | yes... we do :) |
| 19:26.59 | Corrodias | i suspect the other 4 had good equipment and the allies were unorganized |
| 19:27.01 | JoshBorke | as alliance, if we get stopped at galv, we go ahead and work on IB |
| 19:27.17 | JoshBorke | the worst is 5 on drek :-( |
| 19:27.18 | JoshBorke | that's a PITA |
| 19:27.34 | Corrodias | horde players fight about whether or not to take Balinda, but it doesn't look far out of the way and, if she's not defended, i think 4 people can handle her fine |
| 19:27.51 | Corrodias | i propose that once SH is "captured", 4 of the O can go cap her |
| 19:27.54 | malreth | i usually wait outside when we're on drek and just pick horde off as they rush in one at a time |
| 19:28.19 | tyroney|work | Found it. UnitPowerType() |
| 19:28.21 | Corrodias | malreth: what, not moving as a group? do we do that? ;) just kidding, that much i know... i'm guilty of it myself, i fear |
| 19:29.07 | malreth | best is when they trinket... "ah... fresh blood." <begins casting fireball at point blank range> |
| 19:30.05 | Corrodias | i do trinket, and begin running in as soon as the area loads. sometimes i make it in, but it doesn't do much good if they're already fighting Drek. however, if they haven't begun, i can buff him and his defenders and prepare to heal other defenders. |
| 19:33.13 | Corrodias | about the 'pvp for noobs' section on AB: yes, this is exactly what i have observed in my few games |
| 19:38.29 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/Compendium_of_the_best_Paladin%27s_weapons |
| 19:38.35 | jaxdahl | needs to be updated with naxx weapons |
| 19:39.12 | Corrodias | do we know all their stats already? |
| 19:39.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:40.25 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:41.06 | jaxdahl | pretty much all |
| 19:41.17 | jaxdahl | may be missing 2-3 from kel'thuzad |
| 19:41.21 | jaxdahl | Gressil, maybe |
| 19:42.48 | jaxdahl | this page has a crapton of external links |
| 19:42.50 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/Naxxramas_Loot |
| 19:45.21 | tyroney|work | I love taking a mod, chopping it up, using a small fraction of it and making something of my own. |
| 19:45.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@cpe-24-209-111-105.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 19:46.08 | Corrodias | people call that unethical |
| 19:46.41 | tyroney|work | So everyone write every little function from scratch? |
| 19:46.47 | JoshBorke | jaxdahl: where's the healerdin stuff? ^_^ |
| 19:46.54 | JoshBorke | tyroney|work: as long as you provide credit :-) |
| 19:46.55 | Corrodias | that's what they say. intellectual property, i own this code, etc |
| 19:46.57 | jaxdahl | JoshBorke |
| 19:47.10 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/Maul_of_the_Redeemed_Crusader |
| 19:47.25 | jaxdahl | that's an healadin mace if i've ever seen one |
| 19:47.35 | JoshBorke | it's a healadin's solo mace |
| 19:47.44 | jaxdahl | yea |
| 19:47.54 | JoshBorke | i want one for me to wear in raids :-D |
| 19:48.03 | JoshBorke | i've got a priest to kill stuff with |
| 19:48.04 | jaxdahl | it's a top 10 weapon though |
| 19:48.05 | tyroney|work | I don't have any issue with copying two lines of code when I want to rotate a tex and I don't want to spend a few days reading up on matrix transforms. |
| 19:48.23 | jaxdahl | hot: http://www.wowwiki.com/Might_of_Menethil |
| 19:48.29 | jaxdahl | i calculated it to be 195 DPS |
| 19:48.39 | tyroney|work | That and grabbing the names of the three events I'll need to hook to do whatever. |
| 19:48.46 | jaxdahl | dark edge of insanity has the #1 spot at 182 DPS |
| 19:48.47 | tyroney|work | It's not like I slap my name on someone's work. |
| 19:48.50 | jaxdahl | 13 DPS is a huge jump |
| 19:51.25 | JoshBorke | tyroney|work: well that's just learning |
| 19:55.19 | jaxdahl | possible alpha image? |
| 19:55.20 | jaxdahl | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Area_52x.jpg |
| 19:55.35 | jaxdahl | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.46 | JoshBorke | i bet that's one of the PvP towns |
| 19:56.04 | jaxdahl | nah, probaly a goblin town |
| 19:56.11 | jaxdahl | engineering heavy, etc |
| 19:58.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Insa (n=insa@144.224-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:58.24 | jaxdahl | New in 2.0: |
| 19:58.24 | jaxdahl | /stopcasting |
| 19:58.24 | jaxdahl | This slash command can be used in macros to stop casting the current spell |
| 19:58.27 | jaxdahl | --Slouken |
| 19:58.55 | Mikma | neat |
| 19:59.27 | jaxdahl | hmm |
| 19:59.35 | jaxdahl | looks like Lord Kazzak is going to be opening the dark portal |
| 19:59.43 | jaxdahl | not a bunch of warlocks doing something with medivh's book |
| 19:59.51 | jaxdahl | http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/26303639.htm |
| 20:00.11 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Area_52x.jpg doesn't work :) |
| 20:00.17 | jaxdahl | thanks Kirkburn |
| 20:00.29 | jaxdahl | should the goblin reference in the article be removed as well? |
| 20:00.33 | jaxdahl | we don't know what faction it is yet |
| 20:00.41 | Kirkburn | Shandris insists on flouting the rules *sigh* |
| 20:01.13 | Kirkburn | Hmm |
| 20:01.30 | Kirkburn | Nah, leave it, the picture did seem to show it |
| 20:01.31 | Mikma | i still wonder about this one http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-5170-1-ignasia-fuck-off.html |
| 20:04.28 | Corrodias | wonder what? |
| 20:06.51 | Kirkburn | The name, I guess |
| 20:07.08 | Kirkburn | I don't personally think it's appropriate |
| 20:07.37 | Corrodias | well, you can tell people to fuck off.. |
| 20:07.48 | Corrodias | or by appropriate do you mean nice? |
| 20:08.21 | Kirkburn | I mean, can't the author think of a better name |
| 20:08.28 | Gryphen | mmm google ig tabs |
| 20:08.55 | Kirkburn | (and yes, it is partly motivated by the fact kids play the game) |
| 20:09.21 | Corrodias | something like... "AutoReply" |
| 20:09.39 | Corrodias | i just don't care enough to form an opinion on this one |
| 20:09.47 | Kirkburn | Yes, something along those line. If you did actually use those words as an auto-reply, you could get suspended |
| 20:10.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:10.43 | Corrodias | things might be a bit more strict in your realm... |
| 20:11.13 | Corrodias | E'T doesn't see much in the way of bannings or suspension, despite outbreaks of vulgarity. however, if someone told -everyone- to fuck off constantly, it would draw attention, yes. |
| 20:12.00 | Kirkburn | If it's reported, it makes no difference what server you're on. It only takes one person to say "I don't like this" |
| 20:12.31 | Kirkburn | Still, I'm just saying it's not behaviour I would encourage :) |
| 20:12.43 | Corrodias | well, suit yourself |
| 20:13.31 | Kirkburn | CG does seem to be rather broken right now :/ |
| 20:14.03 | Kirkburn | Who forgot the CSS and pictures :P |
| 20:14.04 | Cairenn | this is new and different .... |
| 20:14.31 | Kirkburn | *snap snap snap* |
| 20:15.14 | Kirkburn | Well, when you have zinor breaking the server every time he posts news ... |
| 20:21.28 | Cairenn | (the rest of the expression being "... how?" ) |
| 20:22.04 | Corrodias | [away] @ class |
| 20:22.45 | wereHamster | is there any reason why the everything is scaled to 1.5 ? If I want to create pixel-perfect textures, I have to set the scale to 0.75.. |
| 20:24.20 | Iriel | The scale depends entirely on your screen resolution |
| 20:24.39 | Iriel | Everything is scaled so your screen/window is 768 pixels high. |
| 20:24.51 | Iriel | or should I say, 768 UI coordinate units high |
| 20:24.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:26.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor` (n=aaaa@ip-80-226-131-230.vodafone-net.de) |
| 20:28.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:28.41 | wereHamster | that makes sense.. 1024/768 = 1/0.75 .. and is there any reason for that? Does that make rendering somehow easier? |
| 20:32.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:34.00 | Kirkburn | Ookay, *now* I think I have rid myself of the curse of alt nicks |
| 20:36.31 | tyroney|work | As far as the ui is concerned, and probably most of the game, the rendered surface is 1024x768. The graphics card worries about scaling it around. |
| 20:37.50 | jaxdahl | anyone have the IP address of the old forums handy? |
| 20:38.09 | tyroney|work | Are they still out there somewhere? (nope) |
| 20:38.49 | jaxdahl | nvm, got it |
| 20:38.49 | jaxdahl | http://12.129.217.203/ |
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| 20:40.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 20:41.09 | Mikma | jaxdahl: wtf is that? |
| 20:41.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:41.40 | JoshBorke | bye all |
| 20:41.47 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@ohm.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 20:42.13 | jaxdahl | Mikma, it's the old forums |
| 20:42.25 | jaxdahl | you can still go directly to posts |
| 20:42.30 | jaxdahl | but you can't list threads anymore |
| 20:42.36 | Mikma | hoho, ok then |
| 20:42.37 | jaxdahl | eg, http://12.129.217.203/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=820894 |
| 20:52.49 | Beladona | what a pain in the ass |
| 20:53.28 | Beladona | anyone know a good way to prevent the QuestTimerFrame from going totally out of wack whenever UIParent_ManageFramePositions gets called? |
| 20:53.55 | Beladona | specifically because making the minimap movable screws up anything managed by that function |
| 20:54.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@198.199.136.119) |
| 20:54.16 | ckknight | hey all |
| 20:55.05 | Cairenn | hi ckknight |
| 20:56.32 | zenzelezz | meh... trash clearing until Razuvious, fairly straight... but they decide to not do stable. Quick wipe |
| 20:56.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge frus (i=frus@082-146-097-120.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 20:57.07 | zenzelezz | followed by another three wipes after clearing, for various reasons. Then, by some miracle, Anub goes down on the first attempt for once |
| 20:57.41 | zenzelezz | but no loot for me :-( Somewhat annoying to be the lowbie in the guild |
| 20:59.24 | malreth | METAMORPHOSIS!!! |
| 21:01.12 | malreth | ROCKET PUNCH!!! |
| 21:01.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Laric (i=Laric@217-13-2-126.dd.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:03.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-131-7.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:03.14 | malreth | KANEDAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! |
| 21:03.28 | gnorlish | tetsuo. |
| 21:04.42 | Kirkburn | What freaks abound on teh internets |
| 21:07.54 | malreth | gah! today was busy |
| 21:08.00 | malreth | i'm ready to go home |
| 21:08.08 | malreth | and normally, i would be home right now |
| 21:08.35 | malreth | but i gotta meet my sister when she gets done with classes today |
| 21:09.02 | malreth | and i don't wanna drive home, then drive back to campus to meet her, then drive back home again |
| 21:09.37 | malreth | i need a new project |
| 21:09.46 | wereHamster | BugSack doesn't like panda :( |
| 21:10.08 | malreth | really? |
| 21:10.29 | wereHamster | bugSack or BugGrabebr itnercept the message() function |
| 21:10.46 | malreth | prolly BugGrabber |
| 21:10.56 | wereHamster | and panda, page [message] doesn't work |
| 21:11.14 | malreth | ah... |
| 21:11.26 | malreth | have panda pop up its own dialog window then |
| 21:11.33 | malreth | they're easy to make |
| 21:12.33 | malreth | you can even have it display a list of all pages that have been received |
| 21:13.02 | malreth | and it can have a picture of a panda on it |
| 21:13.07 | malreth | and it can make a panda noise |
| 21:13.28 | Kirkburn | Today we present to you the oddest sentences in the world "BugSack doesn't like panda". Pandas probably would prefer an absence of creepy crawlies too :P |
| 21:13.55 | malreth | i thought that was a pretty random statement, too |
| 21:14.07 | malreth | and coming from ME? that's sayin something |
| 21:14.21 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 21:15.33 | Kirkburn | Iriel, have you seen how bluetracker treats the Expansion Changes - Concise List thread now? It updates your first post every time :) |
| 21:31.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tyroney|work (n=tyroney@66.239.241.162.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:36.05 | Kirkburn | Wow, Powerpoint 2007 is great :D |
| 21:36.31 | Kirkburn | I just knocked up a gorgeous presentation in no time at all |
| 21:36.50 | Kirov | Kirkburn - does her parents know? |
| 21:37.00 | Kirov | er, do her |
| 21:37.03 | Kirov | grammar ftl |
| 21:37.08 | Kirkburn | Not yet, I'm packing my bags and buying the flight to the Bahamas now |
| 21:38.16 | dreyruugr | <insert Anna Nicole joke here> |
| 21:39.46 | tyroney|work | Hmm. |
| 21:40.53 | tyroney|work | Kirkburn: how soon is/isn't that coming to a shelf near me? |
| 21:41.12 | Kirkburn | January, same time as Vista |
| 21:50.01 | Mery | 2008? |
| 21:50.05 | Mery | ;) |
| 21:50.12 | Kirkburn | tyroney|work, this may be of interest - a review of Office 2007: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/office2007_beta2_tr.asp |
| 21:50.39 | Kirkburn | Heh, it's already been put back once to coincide with Vista |
| 21:51.46 | tyroney|work | I do some powerpoint work for a church, so I guess I should keep up with these things. I just hope I don't have to remaster all the files yet again. |
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| 22:01.30 | Corrodias | silly paladins |
| 22:01.38 | Corrodias | just bubble & hearth |
| 22:02.04 | tyroney|work | You have to admit; they're good at it. |
| 22:03.16 | jaxdahl | oh awesome.. these will rock in wow 2.0 |
| 22:03.17 | jaxdahl | * NEW GetCritChance() |
| 22:03.17 | jaxdahl | * NEW GetRangedCritChance() |
| 22:03.17 | jaxdahl | * NEW GetSpellCritChance(school) |
| 22:03.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 22:07.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KaoS` (n=[KaoS]`@about/apple/macbookpro/KaoS) |
| 22:07.14 | zenzelezz | Lethon is mean |
| 22:09.39 | Corrodias | you know, i didn't lose my friends list when E'T upgraded... |
| 22:13.56 | Corrodias | are you laughing because 1) it might mean that i have no friends, or because 2) it might mean they didn't even upgrade us? |
| 22:14.09 | Corrodias | or something else entirely? |
| 22:14.19 | Corrodias | oh, wait, same name, you're on the other side, you ass |
| 22:14.26 | Kirkburn | I choose option 3) All of the above |
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| 22:17.25 | Osagasu | Corr hates me so. :D |
| 22:22.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 22:22.14 | moird | Question, not even sure where to look quite for this, but Whenever I have the gui open on my mod, it won't close with escape button pressed... |
| 22:24.00 | Cide | tinsert(UISpecialFrames, "NameOfYourFrame") |
| 22:25.01 | moird | hmmm... would it also work as an inherit? |
| 22:25.41 | tyroney|work | Your frame has to be listed in a table, and that line of code is how to get it there. |
| 22:27.41 | moird | Ok, thanks I will play around with it |
| 22:32.31 | Kaso | Does anyone know how the World PvP UI works? |
| 22:33.10 | tyroney|work | What do you consider the World PvP UI? The minimap icons? The two top-center number of towers controlled? |
| 22:33.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:37.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
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| 22:49.08 | Kaso | tyroney|work sorry was afk |
| 22:49.23 | Kaso | i mean the info about towers controlled, the progess bar etc |
| 22:49.28 | Kaso | cos i dont have it :< |
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| 22:54.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Caboose[FH] (n=Caboose9@cpe-66-8-166-76.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
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| 22:56.23 | tyroney|work | Kaso: I hear you have to be a member of localdefense (or maybe world?) to get them to appear |
| 22:56.31 | Kaso | ooh |
| 22:57.22 | gnorlish | oh man, i just found a "kirov" on my server |
| 22:58.42 | Kirov | gnorlish - currently playing? |
| 22:58.48 | gnorlish | yes |
| 22:58.51 | Kirov | hunter? |
| 22:58.54 | gnorlish | 22 mage |
| 22:58.54 | Kirov | alliance |
| 22:58.57 | gnorlish | horde |
| 22:58.58 | Kirov | definatly not me |
| 22:59.08 | Kirov | I only use Kirov on one server. |
| 22:59.11 | Kirov | er, two |
| 22:59.15 | Kirov | And they're both hunters |
| 23:14.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=triti@cpe-72-179-20-11.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:15.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge frus (i=frus@082-146-097-120.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 23:16.12 | malreth | hello happy people |
| 23:17.17 | Cairenn | hi malreth |
| 23:17.38 | malreth | :D |
| 23:18.37 | tyroney|work | I'll be happy in a little less than an hour. |
| 23:19.29 | Kirov | hmm |
| 23:19.39 | Kirov | Anyone else online have their server taken down? |
| 23:19.58 | Kirov | Forums are dead, and aparently my server got taken down "until further notice" |
| 23:20.16 | tyroney|work | Ew. |
| 23:20.43 | Kirov | Looks like ~20 servers just got the axe. |
| 23:20.51 | Tem | I'm rather mezmerized by the eu outland map |
| 23:20.53 | tyroney|work | I've been on test "testing", so I'm in the dark. |
| 23:21.06 | tyroney|work | tem: is it diff'rent? |
| 23:21.13 | Tem | sort of |
| 23:21.24 | Tem | if you click the zones in the right order, something cool happens |
| 23:21.36 | Tem | I assume the US map does the same thing, I just haven't found the order |
| 23:22.10 | Tem | (and I'm not sitting there to find the 1 order in the 5040 possible ways) |
| 23:22.52 | tyroney|work | as you click, tiny dots appear above letters, so it's pretty quick to find. |
| 23:23.15 | Kirov | I was wondering about that |
| 23:23.21 | Kirov | I thought it was just a graphical error |
| 23:23.23 | zinor` | Kirkburn, that was the other guys fault actually :) |
| 23:23.32 | zinor` | Kirkburn, he forgot to add the dns entry for static. when he moved the site |
| 23:23.34 | zinor` | :s |
| 23:25.24 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 23:25.50 | Kirkburn | Hehe, it really does do something cool, that map :) |
| 23:26.09 | Tem | tyroney|work, oh really? i haven't looked |
| 23:26.58 | Tem | oh yeah |
| 23:27.00 | Tem | there you go |
| 23:28.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 23:29.04 | Kirov | heh, the EU wow Outland map is semi-broken |
| 23:29.15 | Kirkburn | ffs, I died again through no fault of my own |
| 23:29.23 | Kirov | you have to click on them in the O U T L A D N order |
| 23:31.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 23:31.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.188.231.45) |
| 23:31.53 | [floyd] | Would anyone know of a way to get the exact location of resources (Copper, Iron, etc.)? Unfortunately, GetPlayerMapPosition( "mouseover" ) returns 0, 0. Anything else I could look into? |
| 23:32.25 | Kirov | floyd - use the player's location |
| 23:32.29 | malreth | you have to stand on the resource node and GetPlayerMapPosition("player") |
| 23:33.00 | [floyd] | Taking the player position gets kinda boring, quite a few issues with that. |
| 23:33.21 | Kirov | floyd - and it's the only way to do it, unfortunatly. |
| 23:33.48 | [floyd] | Ok, thanks for confirmation. |
| 23:34.44 | [floyd] | On a related note, do all maps have the same ratio between normalized positions and actual distances (except for capitols)? |
| 23:35.16 | Kirkburn | (Capitals? The Capitol is a building :) |
| 23:35.18 | malreth | no |
| 23:35.23 | tyroney|work | I want to say no |
| 23:35.53 | [floyd] | Fook :/ |
| 23:36.11 | malreth | yeah... sounds like you're gonna have fun, [floyd] |
| 23:36.22 | Kirov | You'll need to check out something like Gatherer or YAtlas to get those numbers. |
| 23:36.46 | malreth | it's possible to calculate the scale for a map |
| 23:37.23 | [floyd] | So..... what method would one use to calculate the epsilon based on whatever info can be acquired? |
| 23:37.23 | malreth | check out and old addon called MapLibrary |
| 23:37.23 | tyroney|work | travel speed. |
| 23:37.24 | [floyd] | Thanks Kirov and malreth, will do so. |
| 23:37.24 | malreth | it's out of development but it had a method to calculate that by walking for a period of time |
| 23:37.25 | tyroney|work | As in samples over time. |
| 23:37.59 | Kirkburn | WoW is determined to piss me off today, I keep dying because I'm either getting a sap reissted or I fail a lockpick |
| 23:38.30 | Kirkburn | (or I get disconnected and die after a stupidly long load time) |
| 23:38.33 | Kirov | Kirkburn - didn't you hear? The latest server upgrade included the "Fuckover Rogues" server patch. |
| 23:38.37 | tyroney|work | I think there should be an option to spend twice as much energy to not get resisted. |
| 23:39.01 | Kirov | tyroney|work - by "option" you mean talent? |
| 23:39.17 | Kirov | That you can use once every half an hour |
| 23:39.20 | tyroney|work | Oh, that? |
| 23:39.57 | Kirkburn | Yay, finally! |
| 23:40.21 | Kirkburn | Then again, it was a 24 elite quest, and I'm level 20 |
| 23:40.48 | [floyd] | :D |
| 23:40.50 | tyroney|work | which? |
| 23:40.54 | Kirov | Those bastards! |
| 23:41.11 | Kirkburn | Westfall tower |
| 23:41.14 | Kirov | How dare they make a lvl 24 elite be able to pwn a lvl 20! |
| 23:41.22 | Kirov | So unfair |
| 23:41.37 | [floyd] | Yeah, no fun :D |
| 23:41.42 | tyroney|work | Ah, yes. Pickpocketing as you're attacked, hoping a sap lasts... |
| 23:41.50 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 23:42.14 | Kirkburn | Ah yes, the Touch of Zanzil |
| 23:42.39 | tyroney|work | Can random paladins remove that? Because that would really annoy me. |
| 23:43.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge piehole- (n=piehole_@71-88-250-253.dhcp.sffl.va.charter.com) |
| 23:43.17 | Kirov | Kirkburn - yes, but then you don't get to do one of (I think) the funniest quests in the game. |
| 23:43.38 | tyroney|work | There are so many great quests... |
| 23:43.40 | Kirov | Or get an item which will allow you to make your character appear to level up at any time you want. |
| 23:43.49 | Kirkburn | Kirov, what, really?!? |
| 23:43.58 | tyroney|work | Kirov: I never thought of that. |
| 23:44.11 | Kirov | You get a potion that, when used, is the same as the "level up" effect. |
| 23:44.14 | Kirov | Others see it too. |
| 23:44.26 | tyroney|work | It's too bad those are unique. I'd love to take five on a raid. |
| 23:44.32 | Kirov | Yeah |
| 23:44.38 | Kirov | But at least you can take them with you. |
| 23:44.42 | Kirov | even at 60 |
| 23:44.54 | Kirkburn | Is it unlimited or something? |
| 23:44.57 | Kirov | yeah |
| 23:45.07 | Kirov | Just go back to him and ask for another. |
| 23:45.10 | tyroney|work | Just to be safe, I assume since the touch is so annoying. |
| 23:45.38 | Kirov | Last I checked, I haven't played with my rogue for a while, it was like the hearthstone thing. |
| 23:45.39 | Kirkburn | Ooh, I'll have to do that then |
| 23:45.43 | Kirov | If you don't have one you can get another. |
| 23:45.56 | Kirov | But you HAVE to have Zanzil's to do it |
| 23:46.02 | Kirov | If someone cleanses you, you fail. |
| 23:46.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hyperChipmunk (n=staharaj@d14-69-214-77.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 23:46.21 | Kirkburn | I'd better stay out of people's way |
| 23:46.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 23:46.45 | [floyd] | Oh my, browsing through YAtlas' source right now -- looks like all mods are a collection of hacks to work around Blizzard's shortcomings.... I so long to have an API that allows for robust implementations. |
| 23:46.50 | Kirov | Yeah, luckily people are dicks for the most part |
| 23:47.13 | Kirov | floyd - It's not Blizzard's shortcomings. |
| 23:47.27 | malreth | eh? |
| 23:47.29 | Kirov | It's their attempt to prevent people from getting the information in the first place. |
| 23:47.39 | [floyd] | Granted, it's for reasons of protection. |
| 23:47.54 | Kirov | The hacks are to ways to get around the barriers purposefully put up by Blizzard |
| 23:48.10 | [floyd] | But there's also the whole messaging mess, which *is* Blizzards fault, as is the UI mess, which was done wrong from the start. |
| 23:48.27 | Kirov | messaging mess? |
| 23:48.53 | [floyd] | Messages coming in whatever order they please, with duplicates, etc. |
| 23:48.57 | [floyd] | That is a royal mess. |
| 23:49.28 | tyroney|work | Those, my friend, are the wheels of progress. In such an environment, there are no alternatives. |
| 23:49.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge piehole- (n=piehole_@71-88-250-253.dhcp.sffl.va.charter.com) |
| 23:49.44 | [floyd] | Well said :D |
| 23:49.48 | tyroney|work | latency, trusted client, mmo, blah blah blah |
| 23:50.15 | [floyd] | Ok, still.... the UI *is* a mess :) |
| 23:50.29 | malreth | works fine for a lot of people |
| 23:50.49 | tyroney|work | I wouldn't call it pretty or elegant, but it seems to get the job done one way or another. |
| 23:50.56 | tyroney|work | Well, elegant here and there. |
| 23:51.03 | [floyd] | It's steering towards becoming unmaintainable. |
| 23:51.10 | malreth | huh? |
| 23:51.16 | [floyd] | So many little bugs lingering in there, waiting to surface. |
| 23:51.42 | malreth | where? |
| 23:51.48 | tyroney|work | Aren't we just a little ball of sunshine? |
| 23:52.22 | [floyd] | All over the place, actually. My latest favourite is that I can no longer walk with the mouse (right-click on the map). |
| 23:52.38 | malreth | huh? |
| 23:52.40 | tyroney|work | Huh? Right click turns. Two buttons walk. |
| 23:52.50 | tyroney|work | What is it that you're referring to? |
| 23:53.16 | [floyd] | Right-click, not keeping the right mouse button pressed. |
| 23:53.20 | tyroney|work | There's a "click to move" in the interface options somewhere you can turn on. |
| 23:53.34 | [floyd] | Used to work, until 1.12 I believe, when it works 1 out of 5 times. |
| 23:54.08 | malreth | right-click on what to move? |
| 23:54.17 | cogwheel | click-to-move seems to be working just fine for me |
| 23:54.18 | Zicon | The ground. |
| 23:54.21 | tyroney|work | Sounds like lag of some kind more than something else. |
| 23:54.24 | [floyd] | On the map, some spot, an NPC, etc. |
| 23:54.30 | Gryphen | :o |
| 23:54.36 | malreth | oh... ok. the click to move feature then |
| 23:54.37 | [floyd] | Clicking on objects, unfortunately, never worked. |
| 23:54.42 | [floyd] | Yep :D |
| 23:54.44 | malreth | that's not an interface bug then |
| 23:55.06 | Zicon | [floyd]: Openable objects always worked for me? |
| 23:55.16 | [floyd] | I wouldn't be too sure about that -- the UI interferes with the game logic more often than it should. |
| 23:55.19 | tyroney|work | They did make it so that your character won't keep running through machine lag. Made it so that I never fall into the trench in Ironforge. (and might be related to what you're talking about ) |
| 23:55.28 | Gryphen | lol |
| 23:55.36 | [floyd] | Zicon: Depends on your screen resolution -- the higher the resolution, the less often it works. |
| 23:55.58 | cogwheel | [floyd]: i'm really not following you... my click-to-move is doing everything you mentioned it's not... it's working every click, i can right-click on NPCs, etc... |
| 23:56.11 | tyroney|work | Which would be true if it's machine/load lag related. |
| 23:56.12 | Zicon | [floyd]: I'm running 1280x960, and it _always_ works for me. |
| 23:56.13 | malreth | There is no lua code in the FrameXML that controls the click-to-move functionality |
| 23:56.17 | Gryphen | smoke something first cogwheel :) |
| 23:56.21 | [floyd] | tyroney|work: I never have lags, and I have 2 GB RAM, it never stutters either, and still, the click to walk feature broke. |
| 23:56.22 | tyroney|work | I can't click on anything when my machine is hiccuping. |
| 23:56.32 | malreth | therefore, there is no UI bug |
| 23:56.39 | cogwheel | Gryphen: good idea! |
| 23:56.41 | [floyd] | Zicon: I'm running 1920x1200 on my laptop, and it hardly ever works. |
| 23:58.42 | Kirkburn | Where exactly is Doc Mixlpixl? |
