| 00:07.21 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:09.08 | Kirov | ? |
| 00:11.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:11.50 | JoshBorke | new mod idea: forecaster |
| 00:12.04 | JoshBorke | tells you the weather across azeroth |
| 00:12.46 | Kirov | lol |
| 00:12.52 | Kirov | how would one do that? |
| 00:13.02 | Kirov | the ui has no knowledge of the weather |
| 00:14.43 | norganna | i'm betting it's mathematical |
| 00:14.45 | JoshBorke | hm |
| 00:14.58 | JoshBorke | what does GetWorldDetail do? |
| 00:15.20 | norganna | just like the boats, zepplins, and gy rez's - all base on world time |
| 00:16.26 | norganna | i reckon obj respawns are all time-based as well... just haven't worked out how yet |
| 00:29.36 | JoshBorke | anyone in game where there are weather effects? |
| 00:34.05 | Cairenn | tell you in a sec, when I land in Gadget ... will see if it's still blowing sand around |
| 00:34.07 | Cairenn | why? |
| 00:34.51 | JoshBorke | i want to know the output of GetWorldDetail |
| 00:34.59 | Cairenn | nope, flying across tanaris now, looks like the winds' stopped at the moment |
| 00:35.39 | Cide | Kirov: you there? |
| 00:37.58 | Kirov | yo |
| 00:39.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=karl@ppp-68-120-82-62.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:42.27 | Kirov | ? |
| 00:42.57 | Cide | ts got a bug with beta16, but apparently you have uploaded beta17 |
| 00:43.18 | Cide | SimpleTranqShot.lua:1659: attempt to compare nil with number <-- is that among the fixed stuff? |
| 00:43.20 | cladhaire | AnduinLothar: heyas |
| 00:43.21 | Kirov | Yeah, stupid mistake |
| 00:43.26 | Cide | alright |
| 00:43.26 | Kirov | Fixed |
| 00:43.27 | Cide | thanks |
| 00:43.51 | Kirov | It's basically the only thing I did in beta17 |
| 00:44.33 | Nightdew | what method can i hook to hook into profession stuff like skinning? |
| 00:44.36 | Corrodias | TS, now? |
| 00:45.28 | AnduinLothar | sup clad |
| 00:45.33 | cladhaire | not much |
| 00:46.42 | cladhaire | raiding for once in the last month or so =) |
| 00:46.52 | JoshBorke | yay cladhaire |
| 00:46.56 | cladhaire | anyone have a real casual horde guild who needs a druid? |
| 00:47.07 | cladhaire | oh.. i mean one that doesn't suck |
| 00:47.11 | Cide | Corrodias: hm? |
| 00:47.17 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 00:47.25 | Corrodias | what is "ts" that somebody just mentioned? |
| 00:47.34 | JoshBorke | a person |
| 00:48.06 | Corrodias | oh. then never mind, i misunderstood the sentence. |
| 00:48.17 | Tem | Corrodias, Cide + Ts = CT |
| 00:48.28 | JoshBorke | i still think TS doesn't exist :-X |
| 00:48.41 | Corrodias | that explains it |
| 00:48.49 | cladhaire | Ts used to post a bit more in the forums, imo |
| 00:48.57 | AnduinLothar | just dropping in. Was kinda looking for Maldivia |
| 00:49.07 | Tem | lol @ clad and his "imo" stuff |
| 00:49.11 | AnduinLothar | haven't seen him around recently |
| 00:49.14 | cladhaire | Tem: I dont even realize it anymore. |
| 00:49.16 | Cide | we don't post as much on the forums |
| 00:49.19 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 00:49.19 | Tem | cladhaire, hahahaha |
| 00:49.21 | Cide | now |
| 00:49.30 | cladhaire | Cide: You still do, I remember back in the glory days =) |
| 00:49.42 | Cide | I used to post more than I do right now though |
| 00:49.47 | cladhaire | definitely |
| 00:49.55 | cladhaire | i think we all did .. lol |
| 00:49.57 | Cide | as I usually say, when the forum was called "Interface Customization" |
| 00:49.58 | cladhaire | instead we just come to irc now |
| 00:50.36 | AnduinLothar | I used to post important things to the main page until i realized that no one reads the main page, and any who visits the sits just goes to the forums |
| 00:50.53 | AnduinLothar | but you mean the ui forum, eh |
| 00:51.04 | Cide | yep! :P |
| 00:51.44 | Nightdew | does anyone know how to hook into the action that you perform when right clicking? |
| 00:51.54 | AnduinLothar | which i still post to occatioanlly, but i try to avoid Cosmos affiliation, since people hate Cosmos with a passion for no good reason. I'm half tempted to removed it from my sig |
| 00:52.12 | AnduinLothar | but then what kind of leader would i be |
| 00:52.15 | Kirov | Nightdew - you can't really |
| 00:52.18 | cladhaire | zomg ju are teh cosmos! |
| 00:52.40 | AnduinLothar | meh, gotta run |
| 00:52.42 | Kirov | Night - you online right now? |
| 00:52.46 | JoshBorke | bye AL |
| 00:52.50 | cladhaire | later karl |
| 00:53.44 | Nightdew | Kirov: dif server |
| 00:53.47 | Nightdew | testing a hunter |
| 00:53.56 | Nightdew | found i had a left over 18 hunter |
| 00:54.14 | Kirov | heh |
| 00:54.27 | Nightdew | dies within 3 mins too |
| 00:54.44 | Nightdew | why .. whats up? |
| 00:54.52 | Kirov | just curious |
| 00:54.52 | Cairenn|walk | I keep *trying* to go back to the UI forum to help out like I used to, but *cry* |
| 00:55.23 | Kirov | Nightdew - what are you trying to hook? |
| 00:55.38 | Nightdew | things like skinning and what not |
| 00:55.49 | Nightdew | it does give you a SPELLCAST_START |
| 00:55.57 | Nightdew | but i'd like catch things before that |
| 00:56.44 | Kirov | You can parse the tooltip OnMouseDown / OnMouseUp |
| 00:56.56 | Kirov | But the actual right click is a protected function |
| 00:57.32 | Nightdew | just weird .. or rather lame.. that they didnt channel it through one of the castspell functions |
| 00:57.51 | Kirov | It's intensional I think |
| 00:57.53 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-150-74.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:58.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-150-74.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:58.25 | Kirov | doh |
| 01:02.27 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 01:33.36 | Legorol | I think the UI forum .. hm.. degenerated a bit.. |
| 01:34.04 | MentalPower | why do you say that Legorol? |
| 01:42.36 | Industrial | Is there an index of rare beasts? |
| 01:43.47 | Cairenn|walk | there is on Alla's |
| 01:44.16 | MentalPower | <Cairenn|walk>I keep *trying* to go back to the UI forum to help out like I used to, but *cry* <--- What happenned now? |
| 01:44.32 | Industrial | Cairenn, thanks |
| 01:44.43 | Cairenn | just that it got so frigging bad, it's hard to help there without crying |
| 01:45.19 | Cairenn | Industrial: but I'm not sure you want to use the site, after all, there's the whole OGaming "issue" :p |
| 01:45.39 | Industrial | Cairenn, shh I dont wanna talk about that anymore |
| 01:45.41 | Industrial | :P |
| 01:45.51 | Cairenn | yeah ... |
| 01:47.01 | MentalPower | hopefully the new forums will bring back some sanity |
| 01:47.10 | Cide | doubt it |
| 01:47.17 | Cide | the "& Macros" part tainted it forever! |
| 01:47.23 | Cairenn | can hope |
| 01:47.47 | MentalPower | there should be a separate macros forum |
| 01:48.42 | Cide | Kirov around? |
| 01:49.48 | Cide | MentalPower: I doubt the amount of visitors warrants it though :( |
| 01:51.43 | Kirov | Cide - yeah |
| 01:51.59 | Cide | more bugs from ts! |
| 01:52.05 | Kirov | yeah? |
| 01:52.45 | Cide | first of all, he got... CT_RASlashCmds.lua:557: Usage: SendChatMessage(text [,type] [,language] [,targetPlayer]) when he tranq'd a Qiraji Slayer (no emote, if that matters) - I'm guessing that's not a CTRA bug |
| 01:53.18 | Cide | also, he said he gets a popup to save "unsaved changes" every time he closes the options menu, even though he hasn't made a single change since saving it |
| 01:53.18 | Kirov | hmm |
| 01:53.31 | Cide | with beta17 |
| 01:53.37 | Kirov | Tell him to save once |
| 01:53.45 | Kirov | It should go away. |
| 01:54.05 | Kirov | If not, I'll have to look in to it. |
| 01:54.30 | Kirov | I need to redo the entire options menu anyways. |
| 01:55.25 | Kirov | whats at line 557 in the normal ctraid? |
| 01:58.32 | Cide | oldSendChatMessage(msg, type, language, target); |
| 02:00.43 | Kirov | weird |
| 02:01.26 | Cide | just passes it through, so I doubt it's ctra |
| 02:01.46 | Kirov | Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what is doing that |
| 02:02.38 | Cide | well, it must be msg being nil |
| 02:02.52 | Cide | or otherwise non-sendable value |
| 02:03.02 | Cide | sinec the other parameters are optional |
| 02:03.25 | Kirov | ahhh |
| 02:03.27 | Kirov | found it |
| 02:03.33 | Cide | since* |
| 02:03.34 | Cide | cool |
| 02:03.57 | Kirov | Basically I was doing something really bad with old stranq code that I just realized I was doing recently. |
| 02:04.05 | clad|sleep | night all |
| 02:04.06 | Kirov | I was converting a table in to global variables. |
| 02:04.24 | Nightdew | clad|sleep: ight |
| 02:04.43 | Kirov | I just moved everything over to stay in the table data and not do the weird global thing. |
| 02:05.06 | Cide | night clad|sleep |
| 02:06.25 | Tem | night clad|sleep |
| 02:06.30 | Cairenn | night clad|sleep |
| 02:06.35 | Cide | night clad|sleep |
| 02:06.41 | clad|sleep | night clad|sleep |
| 02:06.48 | Cide | night Cide |
| 02:06.50 | Cide | err. |
| 02:06.56 | Kirov | morning clad|sleep |
| 02:07.06 | Cide | afternoon, ChanServ |
| 02:07.30 | Cide | I messed up the format :( |
| 02:07.58 | Cide | uh oh |
| 02:08.31 | MentalPower | night clad|sleep |
| 02:11.34 | Cide | Kirov: is there a /script workaround for now? or when are you planning on releasing a version with that bug fixed? |
| 02:11.46 | Kirov | in about 20 seconds |
| 02:12.44 | Cide | sweet :) |
| 02:13.12 | Kirov | starting up wow to make sure I didn't amke any really stupid mistakes |
| 02:13.41 | Nightdew | ur p[rone to that too huh |
| 02:14.50 | Kirov | up on ui.worldofwar.net |
| 02:18.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|home (i=andrew@202.180.72.174) |
| 02:21.33 | Cide | thanks |
| 02:24.55 | Cide | so.. |
| 02:25.04 | Kirov | another bug? |
| 02:25.05 | Kirov | >.< |
| 02:25.06 | Cide | nah |
| 02:25.17 | Kirov | *phew* |
| 02:25.32 | Cide | why the hell does UnitPowerType("raidX") return 0 for warriors/rogues sometimes, during the RRU that occurs when the player in question joins the raid? |
| 02:30.32 | Legorol | guys, i have a question: |
| 02:30.41 | Tain | The answer is banana. |
| 02:30.45 | Legorol | lot of people that i know complain that when they log in, the chat window defaults to the last tab |
| 02:30.47 | Legorol | i have this too |
| 02:30.51 | Legorol | is this a blizz bug or an addon bug? |
| 02:30.55 | Legorol | it seems well-known |
| 02:31.01 | Cide | I had that for a while |
| 02:31.05 | Cide | do you use HitsMode? |
| 02:31.07 | Legorol | nope |
| 02:31.17 | Kirov | I still have it |
| 02:31.24 | Kirov | Mine actually defaults to no tab |
| 02:31.27 | Legorol | anyways, is there a good workaround? |
| 02:31.28 | Cide | I always thought that was what caused it.. I disabled it a while ago, it disappeared sometime after that, but not immediately |
| 02:31.36 | Kirov | and the "chat" button is in the wrong place. |
| 02:31.42 | Legorol | ah yeah someone said that too |
| 02:31.49 | Legorol | i personally don't get that, but someone in my guild does |
| 02:33.20 | Legorol | so Kirov, what do you do with it |
| 02:33.29 | Kirov | I still have it |
| 02:33.30 | Kirov | heh |
| 02:35.41 | Cairenn | night Nightdew |
| 02:39.08 | Kirov | Cide - what do you use now instead of hitsmode/ |
| 02:40.31 | Cide | nothing :) |
| 02:40.41 | Cide | I'm a priest so it's not very important |
| 02:41.38 | Cide | though I'd probably use nurfed's combat log if I were to use a similar mod |
| 02:43.17 | Cairenn | would love to know what's causing the problems with chat windows ... daughter has *one* character that it always resets to brand-new, fresh-installation of game default |
| 02:53.18 | Cairenn | night KaeltenAway |
| 02:53.47 | KaeltenAway | gnight |
| 02:53.50 | KaeltenAway | have a good one. |
| 02:54.00 | Cairenn | zomg! he speaks! |
| 02:59.41 | MentalPower | Legorol: afaik, its a blizz bug fixed in 1.12 |
| 03:05.45 | wereHamster | argh.. stupid mistakes, one missing letter and I'm passing 'nil' to a functions instead of the variable.. |
| 03:27.51 | Tem | Cairenn, the problem with the chat stuff is it was probably one of the first things written in the UI. As a result, it's somehwat sloppy |
| 03:28.36 | Tem | (or perhaps the office christmas party was the night before and it was the hangover talking) |
| 03:29.33 | Cairenn | lol |
| 03:43.46 | wereHamster | which itemdb out there tells me which texture/icon the items have? |
| 04:05.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nezroy_ (n=nezroy@71-33-19-191.bois.qwest.net) |
| 04:07.16 | Tem|AFK | don't need an ItemDB for that |
| 04:07.44 | Tem|AFK | wereHamster, IDCard may be what you want |
| 04:08.15 | wereHamster | do you really think I'll install an addon just to find out what icon the major health potion has? |
| 04:08.37 | Tem|AFK | then why did you ask for an itemdb addon to do it? |
| 04:08.40 | Tem|AFK | I'm lost... |
| 04:08.57 | wereHamster | item database like allakhazam/thottbot |
| 04:12.09 | Tem|AFK | you can get it from thott, iirc |
| 04:12.42 | Tem|AFK | yep |
| 04:12.44 | Tem|AFK | http://i73.thottbot.com/en/Interface/Icons/INV_Potion_54.jpg |
| 04:14.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (i=slouken@devolution.com) |
| 04:15.16 | Cairenn | hi slouken |
| 04:15.18 | Tem|AFK | hey! |
| 04:16.08 | slouken | Hey Tem. :) |
| 04:16.17 | Tem | had a good weekend? |
| 04:23.17 | slouken | I'm off to Oblivion... |
| 04:24.44 | Tem | fun game |
| 04:25.01 | norganna | What's this? Is he talking about the game, or the place? |
| 04:25.32 | Tem | dunno |
| 04:25.42 | norganna | heheh |
| 04:28.39 | norganna | have we had any word if 1.12 is this week? |
| 04:28.46 | Cairenn | last we heard |
| 04:29.46 | norganna | Thanks Cair - You're the *BEST*! :) |
| 04:30.07 | Cairenn | yeah, well, it was supposed to be last week, and that didn't happen, so .... |
| 04:30.27 | norganna | heheh - oops :p |
| 04:30.54 | norganna | better late than broken... |
| 04:33.41 | Cairenn | apparently there was a "last minute show stopper" last week that prevented it from going live |
| 04:33.47 | Cairenn | "apparently" |
| 04:33.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip68-106-219-78.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 04:34.22 | norganna | I've not been playing WoW in anticipation of this patch |
| 04:34.48 | norganna | I'm so looking forward to the new BGs that I can't stand to play the old ones anymore |
| 04:34.55 | Cairenn | heh |
| 04:56.37 | wereHamster | http://dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/cd.png .. now also displays bars and item/trinket cooldowns.. |
| 04:58.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge rwsivy (n=rwsivy@adsl-71-148-31-239.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:04.47 | rwsivy | hello? |
| 05:06.43 | Cairenn | bye |
| 05:07.04 | Cairenn | *shades of certain other channels* |
| 05:07.12 | Cairenn | log in, say hi, wait <1 min, log out |
| 05:09.01 | AnduinLothar | familiar, eh? |
| 05:09.30 | Cairenn | as I said ... ;) |
| 05:20.41 | Cairenn | okay guys, daughter just presented me with a puzzle that I can't remember the answer to ... |
| 05:20.55 | Kirov | 42 |
| 05:21.21 | Cairenn | fairy tale: pot of flowers given to girl, evil wizard |
| 05:21.27 | Cairenn | name of fairy tale? |
| 05:22.46 | MentalPower | night folks |
| 05:22.51 | Cairenn | night MentalPower |
| 05:23.47 | MentalPower|ZZzz | night Cair |
| 05:24.00 | norganna | nite mp |
| 05:24.07 | MentalPower|ZZzz | nite norgs |
| 05:24.24 | Kirov | you done with itemizer yet? |
| 05:25.41 | MentalPower|ZZzz | Kirov: nop, writing the decoding functions still (at the same time as the GUI) |
| 05:26.17 | Kirov | well, work faster ... and nigt |
| 05:26.17 | Cairenn | sheesh, seems no one else knows their fairy tales either! and google is being useless |
| 05:27.00 | Iriel | I have no idea on that fairy tale either |
| 05:27.12 | norganna | does anything else happen in this fairy-tale? |
| 05:27.12 | Kirov | I really only know the grim tales |
| 05:27.42 | Cairenn | oh, I'm quite sure other stuff does, but that's the only snippet that we have to work from |
| 05:28.42 | norganna | it's kinda like saying: Man gets a pair of scissors, Red sports car. |
| 05:28.43 | MentalPower|ZZzz | 50DKP to the one that answers this one: Person builds a house whose walls all face south, bear attacks house, what's the color of the bear? |
| 05:29.01 | AnduinLothar | white |
| 05:29.07 | MentalPower|ZZzz | y? |
| 05:29.12 | AnduinLothar | north pole |
| 05:29.13 | MentalPower|ZZzz | bingo! |
| 05:29.28 | MentalPower|ZZzz | you get 50 DKP! |
| 05:29.32 | AnduinLothar | yay |
| 05:29.41 | Kirov | Actually, that's incorrect |
| 05:29.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 05:29.53 | Kirov | The bear is black. |
| 05:29.55 | Cairenn | Mercedes Lackey wrote a book "The Fairy Godmother" and throughout it are snippets from all the old classic fairy tales, and that's the sum total of that particular snippet in the book, the comment about the fairy godmother giving the girl the pot of flowers, and the evil wizard |
| 05:30.17 | Cairenn | and we can't remember which one it's from |
| 05:30.18 | Kirov | Cairenn - never heard of that one |
| 05:30.40 | AnduinLothar | oh i thought you meant the wizard gave the flowers |
| 05:30.53 | Kirov | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fairy_tales |
| 05:30.54 | AnduinLothar | you never siad fairy godmother |
| 05:32.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 05:37.17 | norganna | hmmm - no luck on my googling either |
| 05:37.31 | Cairenn | heh, don't sweat it guys, is no big deal |
| 05:37.46 | Cairenn | just, one of those things that kinda nags at you till you figure it out, ya know? |
| 05:37.51 | AnduinLothar | onyl thing i got with a fairy godmother, flowers and a girl is "The Magic Hill" |
| 05:40.03 | AnduinLothar | or "Lilac Fairy" |
| 05:40.28 | Cairenn | lol, as the whole channel goes on a fairy tale hunt |
| 05:40.55 | AnduinLothar | you asked |
| 05:41.13 | AnduinLothar | and we're obviously bored |
| 05:44.48 | Iriel | Oh, the power you wield Cair, and you dont even know it! |
| 05:44.50 | Cairenn | heh, obviously |
| 05:45.03 | Cairenn | gah, no! |
| 05:45.12 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 05:45.19 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 05:46.23 | zenzelezz | not so sure about the "don't even know it" part |
| 05:46.25 | Cairenn | I thought perhaps it was Thumbelina |
| 05:46.37 | Iriel | I would imagine that half of the reason we're so happy to help is we KNOW you've tried finding it yourself. |
| 05:46.39 | Cairenn | but that's not it |
| 05:47.25 | Cairenn | and it's not Snow White and Rose Red (not the same as Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs) |
| 05:47.29 | AnduinLothar | so i see they changed the AlwaysUpFrame around again.. |
| 05:47.31 | Kirov | Cairenn - you could call your daughter and bitch at her. |
| 05:47.41 | Kirov | tell her all your web trolls couldn't even figure i tout |
| 05:47.59 | zenzelezz | that's funky... as soon as I logged onto WoW I was marked as AFK |
| 05:48.11 | Cairenn | she's busy laughing about the fact that I've got the entire (okay, maybe not entire, but a lot of the) channel looking |
| 05:48.58 | AnduinLothar | not sure why that's funny, unless she knows the answer.. |
| 05:49.01 | Cairenn | night Iriel |
| 05:49.22 | Cairenn | amused by the fact you'd all be willing to help, over something so silly |
| 05:49.29 | Cairenn | it's not like it really matters |
| 05:49.39 | Cairenn | just bugs me I can't remember which one it is |
| 05:49.49 | AnduinLothar | what DOES really matter? |
| 05:50.04 | Cairenn | life, the universe and everything? |
| 05:50.10 | AnduinLothar | anh |
| 05:50.12 | AnduinLothar | nah |
| 05:50.17 | Cairenn | sorry, mind on books atm ;) |
| 05:50.27 | Thrae | I've been afk, too lazy to scroll up, but I will help! |
| 05:50.47 | AnduinLothar | the universe is too big to worry about |
| 05:51.10 | Cairenn | seriously though guys, don't sweat it, we'll figure it out ;) |
| 05:51.15 | Cairenn | or we won't |
| 05:51.20 | Cairenn | doesn't matter |
| 05:51.29 | AnduinLothar | mmm iriel left |
| 05:51.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 05:51.35 | AnduinLothar | i cant ask him what they did to GetWorldStateUIInfo |
| 05:52.08 | AnduinLothar | so.. now that the notice has been up for 2 weeks, is the wiki's page gonna be changed? |
| 05:55.00 | AnduinLothar | oh god... the AlwaysUpFrames are created dynamicly.. |
| 05:55.11 | AnduinLothar | oi... |
| 05:55.31 | Thrae | Cairenn: Did you ever get the answer to the riddle? |
| 05:56.40 | Kirov | AlwaysUp? |
| 05:57.01 | AnduinLothar | the score frames, used in AB, WSG and now world pvp |
| 05:57.02 | Thrae | I just googled the answer if you're still looking for it. |
| 05:57.12 | Cairenn | Thrae: ! |
| 05:57.14 | AnduinLothar | yes, she is |
| 05:57.15 | Cairenn | you got it? |
| 05:57.31 | Thrae | Cairenn: 1st hit from wizard "flower pot" fairy tale gives me the Wizard of Oz |
| 05:57.32 | Cairenn | whatwhatwhat? |
| 05:58.05 | Cairenn | *boggle* |
| 05:58.16 | Cairenn | that ... can't be it ... |
| 05:58.17 | Cairenn | can it? |
| 05:58.26 | Cairenn | huh |
| 05:58.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de) |
| 05:58.43 | Cairenn | okay ... thanks Thrae |
| 05:58.46 | Thrae | From the book "The Magic of Oz", o the Wizard took from his black bag a tiny saw that shone like silver and said to it: |
| 05:58.46 | AnduinLothar | not the movie version anyway |
| 05:58.49 | Thrae | "Saw, Little Saw, come show your power; Make us a board for the Magic Flower." |
| 05:59.04 | Thrae | Well, "The Magic of Oz" was never made into a movie, I don't think |
| 05:59.30 | AnduinLothar | you said wizard of oz up |
| 05:59.35 | Thrae | The 2nd hit for "wizard "flower pot" fairy tale" goes straight to excerpts from the book |
| 05:59.44 | Cairenn | huh |
| 05:59.45 | s|loup | hi |
| 05:59.49 | Cairenn | hi s|loup |
| 05:59.53 | Thrae | OK ok, Frank L. Baums Oz series |
| 06:00.09 | Thrae | I was just saying, the wizard in the riddle is the Wizard of Oz. |
| 06:00.10 | Cairenn | I skipped right over those when looking ... thanks Thrae |
| 06:00.58 | Thrae | Eh, I had to google it. I was way off with Ashenputtle =/ I knew she sold flowers in some translations. |
| 06:01.12 | Thrae | But I forgot she had magical creatures, not a Wizard. |
| 06:01.48 | AnduinLothar | can i SetScript on a frame template? |
| 06:02.49 | Kirov | on the virtual frame itself? |
| 06:02.52 | Kirov | doubt it |
| 06:02.58 | Thrae | AnduinLothar, from what I know, frame templates are processed as needed and don't exist anywhere as a Frame object. |
| 06:03.00 | Kirov | since it doesn't exist as an object. |
| 06:03.31 | AnduinLothar | right, k |
| 06:04.06 | AnduinLothar | have to do it in WorldStateAlwaysUpFrame_Update then |
| 06:04.26 | Thrae | So it's called the "AlwaysUpFrame" and its created dynamically? |
| 06:04.55 | AnduinLothar | AlwaysUpFrame# |
| 06:05.08 | AnduinLothar | child of WorldStateAlwaysUpFrame |
| 06:05.13 | Thrae | Ahhh, multiple children are made dynamically. |
| 06:05.31 | Thrae | Well that's how you want it -- why should children be instantiated along with their parents?! That's just INCEST right there! |
| 06:06.05 | AnduinLothar | because this way i have to make a new system up. and add exceptions. i cant just hook it when the game loads or the addon loads |
| 06:06.21 | Thrae | What are you trying to do? |
| 06:06.32 | AnduinLothar | moke it mobile again |
| 06:06.37 | AnduinLothar | make |
| 06:06.46 | AnduinLothar | since you cant click on WorldStateAlwaysUpFrame |
| 06:06.56 | AnduinLothar | and the AlwaysUpFrame#'s cover it up |
| 06:06.59 | AnduinLothar | and have tooltips |
| 06:07.11 | AnduinLothar | mmm |
| 06:07.15 | AnduinLothar | scratch that |
| 06:07.18 | AnduinLothar | anchor |
| 06:07.22 | Thrae | So <OnEnter> <OnLeave> doesn't fire for WorldStateAlwaysUpFrame ? |
| 06:07.23 | Kirov | what is AlwaysUpFrame |
| 06:07.24 | zenzelezz | what is "AlwaysUpFrame"? o_O |
| 06:07.29 | AnduinLothar | other way is 10x more complicated |
| 06:07.52 | AnduinLothar | read up noobs |
| 06:07.59 | zenzelezz | TLDR |
| 06:08.46 | AnduinLothar | you fail at irc |
| 06:09.07 | zenzelezz | doesn't stop me though |
| 06:09.38 | Thrae | Pssshh, I'm too lazy to scroll up all that way. There's a difference between being able to do something and doing it. |
| 06:11.07 | Kirov | I'm looking at the code and I have no idea what it is |
| 06:11.34 | zenzelezz | he did say it, but it's more than two page-ups on my screen |
| 06:12.59 | AnduinLothar | there we go.. why I didn't make it an anchor before i have no idea |
| 06:13.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge DoomGaze3 (i=DoomGaze@74.128.147.210) |
| 06:13.26 | DoomGaze3 | what's up guys? |
| 06:13.39 | Kirov | Plotting world domination |
| 06:13.50 | DoomGaze3 | got time to help me with a problem? |
| 06:13.54 | Thrae | The AlwaysUpFrame, DoomGaze3. The AlwaysUpFrame. |
| 06:14.10 | AnduinLothar | I won. The AlwaysUpFrame can go to hell |
| 06:14.14 | Kirov | lol |
| 06:14.22 | AnduinLothar | and mobile frames is 1.12 ready |
| 06:14.49 | AnduinLothar | well it works anyway... no real improvements recently tho |
| 06:15.05 | AnduinLothar | It needs to be rewritten but i always put it off when i look at the code |
| 06:15.17 | Thrae | Who wrote it in the first place? |
| 06:15.20 | AnduinLothar | me |
| 06:15.40 | Thrae | I've scrapped a few of my mods too. |
| 06:15.49 | AnduinLothar | it's so damn useful tho |
| 06:16.01 | Thrae | Ah yes, my early days of coding. "Why the hell did I use singleton pointers EVERYWHERE?" |
| 06:16.26 | Thrae | A true coder makes sure his mod is efficient, even if he breaks it! |
| 06:16.27 | AnduinLothar | lets see, Mf was first public... 2/11/05 |
| 06:16.54 | DoomGaze3 | Here's my problem today: http://wowi.pastey.net/346?lang=lua |
| 06:16.55 | AnduinLothar | one of my first addons |
| 06:17.17 | DoomGaze3 | In a party, this only gets called once: when the player clicks loot |
| 06:17.30 | DoomGaze3 | but in a raid, it gets called everytime you mouse over another button |
| 06:17.51 | DoomGaze3 | So it adds my buttons over and over again until the ui crashes |
| 06:19.03 | DoomGaze3 | right now I'm at a loss how to fix it |
| 06:19.36 | Thrae | DoomGaze3: Hook something else, like the OnLoad script for the frame. |
| 06:21.19 | Thrae | If the function is really called something like GroupLootDropDown_Initialize or MasterLooter_GroupLootDropDown_Initialize, then that means it's most likely in FrameXML and you can view the code for it. |
| 06:21.55 | DoomGaze3 | I'm looking at it right now... |
| 06:22.17 | DoomGaze3 | nothing useful is coming to mind... I tried hooking onload but then it doesn't call my buttons at all... |
| 06:23.25 | DoomGaze3 | ah |
| 06:23.29 | DoomGaze3 | I think I got it |
| 06:23.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slickhen1y (i=mikehunt@gateway/tor/x-ac98cbe3dfe2c0d1) |
| 06:24.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0447.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 08:16.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:16.39 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge is "... Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror. Thus you would not have been informed." | Paste Code: http://wowi.pastey.net/ | 1.12 next week, or so a certain someone swears |
| 08:54.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge gngsk| (n=gngsk@c-68-33-204-115.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 08:54.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gngsk (n=gngsk@c-68-33-204-115.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 08:54.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge quoin (n=quoin@219-90-149-82.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 08:55.47 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge by Cairenn -> "... Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror. Thus you would not have been informed." | Paste Code: http://wowi.pastey.net/ |
| 08:56.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-64-059.ewetel.net) |
| 09:00.37 | Shadowed | It's fairly amusing that somebody is trying to be rude about a guilds progression being updated then removing it |
| 09:00.53 | Shadowed | yet he doesn't realise the history is on the wiki |
| 09:01.41 | Cairenn | *is duly amused* |
| 09:01.51 | Shadowed | it's 2 AM, doesn't take much to be amused! |
| 09:02.06 | Cairenn | it's 5am, it takes even less |
| 09:02.19 | Shadowed | i don't like your tone :( |
| 09:02.31 | zespri | do you want me to sing you a lullyby? or however you spell it |
| 09:02.43 | Shadowed | Cair could probably use one |
| 09:03.14 | Cairenn | either that or a good solid two-by-four upside the head. that might work too |
| 09:03.26 | Shadowed | Probably easier to find a pan |
| 09:03.31 | Cairenn | heh |
| 09:03.43 | Cairenn | *clong!* |
| 09:03.58 | zespri | the pity is I don't know a single l-by in english, have to search google |
| 09:04.18 | Shadowed | Anyway, sleep for me. night |
| 09:04.18 | Cairenn | that's quite okay zespri :) |
| 09:04.24 | Cairenn | night Shadowed |
| 09:04.27 | Shadowed | google probably could sing one for you too |
| 09:04.32 | zenzelezz | don't think it's about the words; just the voice/tone |
| 09:04.46 | Cairenn | zenzelezz's correct |
| 09:06.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@62.65.141.13) |
| 09:09.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 09:09.48 | zespri | then something along the lines: na-na-na-na-na-na-na na-nA na-Na na-Na na! |
| 09:09.56 | zespri | =)) |
| 09:10.47 | Cairenn | :) |
| 09:13.40 | zespri | it's not helping is it? |
| 09:13.54 | Cairenn | nope, but appreciate the thought :) |
| 09:14.12 | zespri | cairenn let's duel in front of ironforge, or orgrimar, that'll make you sleep better |
| 09:14.16 | zespri | kidding |
| 09:14.36 | Cairenn | heh |
| 09:20.37 | zespri | are they going to get read of honour completely in BC? |
| 09:20.46 | zespri | get rid |
| 09:22.03 | Cairenn | dunno |
| 09:22.24 | Cairenn | haven't bothered reading up on that stuff, since I hate PvP so much |
| 09:23.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nightdew (n=nightdew@c-69-241-14-232.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 10:12.50 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge by Cairenn -> "If one man gains spiritually, the whole world gains with him. If one man fails, the whole world fails to that extent." |
| 10:13.41 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge by Cairenn -> "If one man gains spiritually, the whole world gains with him. If one man fails, the whole world fails to that extent." Mahatma Gandhi | Paste Code: http://wowi.pastey.net/ |
| 10:20.33 | zenzelezz | woot, another copy/paste guild application... always shows class when they forget to use the right guild name |
| 10:22.40 | AnduinLothar | gg |
| 11:18.58 | Corrodias | boy did we have a weird group earlier today |
| 11:20.40 | Corrodias | take 1) one "i have 2 60's and care abouy your gear this much ||" rogue, 2) one leader who doesn't know how to deal with conflict and often tells us to jump without telling us where, and mix in 3) mobs who particularly love to come after the healers during battle, with a splash of 4) a patrol coming from behind out of nowhere |
| 11:28.20 | AnduinLothar | explosive group. soudns liek a blast |
| 11:51.09 | Corrodias | LOL PUN :D |
| 11:53.03 | Corrodias | that rogue was deliberately being a jerk and our group leader basically told us to stop arguing without doing anything to resolve the problem, apparently unwilling to kick the rogue. i'm not sure we needed him, really, because that warrior had some nice damage output (and a fiery enchant) and the fifth was a hunter. |
| 12:00.30 | Corrodias | that reminds me... are warriors supposed to be good at holding aggro on multiple enemies such that you can heal them without the mobs coming after you? |
| 12:01.15 | Corrodias | i'm not saying he did a bad job at that, but i've been noticing lately (last few groups) that i've had a problem with it and our priest certainly didn't have it easy either |
| 12:08.17 | zenzelezz | if possible they should, but that depends largely on what the team does |
| 12:13.00 | zenzelezz | I try to keep as many targets off the cloth/leather as possible, but there's only so much rage/taunt to go around |
| 12:14.00 | Corrodias | hmm |
| 12:14.46 | Corrodias | i need to find ways to reduce the threat i generate while healing. i only know two things, tossing a HoT just before engagement (when the mobs don't care) and waiting for a while before healing more |
| 12:15.41 | Corrodias | heheh, but with the warrior, rogue, hunter, and his pet passing around the mobs, that gets kinda tough. maybe they need to back down on the damage so they don't draw aggro and we don't have to heal as much. |
| 12:16.09 | Corrodias | i think that was probably a major factor of the problem |
| 12:20.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:24.55 | Corrodias | generating all that threat for keeping a rogue alive may not be the hottest idea |
| 13:05.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kelvie (n=Kelvie@d154-20-180-12.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 13:20.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:33.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Warla (i=Darky28@66.211.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 13:37.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@jak-579.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 13:37.59 | JoshBorke | morning :-) |
| 13:44.30 | zenzelezz | heya |
| 13:47.50 | Legorol | Corrodias, if the group is working right, a reasonable warrior can easily hold 2-3 mobs on them without them going on the healers |
| 13:48.37 | Legorol | I tank a lot with a warrior and I don't normally have problem with them going to the healer. Maybe the occasional escaping mob, but then I taunt it back immediately. |
| 13:48.47 | Legorol | Admittedly in a PuG where things are disorganised, it gets tough. |
| 13:49.32 | Legorol | The basic group dynamics should be like this though: warrior tanks several mobs not under fire, an off-tank (could be a rogue) tanks one mob and the group focus fires on this one. |
| 13:49.46 | Legorol | The off-tank then peals off mobs one by one from the warrior |
| 13:50.08 | Legorol | It helps a lot if there is a hunter pet, because then you can use that to tank too |
| 13:50.23 | zenzelezz | it depends heavily on the group |
| 13:50.37 | zenzelezz | good groups know what to hit, bad groups each hit a separate target |
| 13:50.41 | Legorol | yeah |
| 13:51.04 | Legorol | my opinion is that the detaild mechanics and the exact group make up is less important, discipline and communication is by far the most important |
| 13:51.19 | Legorol | most reasonable plans work if people actually follow it |
| 13:51.22 | zenzelezz | aye |
| 13:51.51 | Legorol | one thing that helps the warrior a lot is if he doesn't have to tank the mob that is being focus fired |
| 13:52.01 | Legorol | then he has plenty of rage to tank 4, even 5 mobs if good |
| 13:52.32 | Legorol | that's my experience, but i play very little in PUGs, most of it is in guild groups |
| 13:52.48 | Legorol | so discipline and communication is obviously there |
| 13:53.34 | Legorol | and one more thing: it's interesting, but the healer has two opposite priorities to balance: |
| 13:53.35 | zenzelezz | did a strat scarlet run with my new guild recently (being a warrior)... had tier 2+ mage and warlock nuking the whole place, now that was a challenge =D |
| 13:54.05 | Legorol | the healer needs to heal in bursts in order to be able to regenerate mana in-between, but he/she also needs to heal often in little quantities to generate a steady amount of threat |
| 13:54.23 | Legorol | these two needs to be balanced, and that's the healer's job to balance, i'm not saying it's easy |
| 13:54.53 | Legorol | zenzelezz, if mage/lock goes AoE, nothing you can do :) |
| 13:55.19 | Legorol | best thing is to taunt as many mobs as often as you can, even those 6 seconds from one mob means less beating on mage |
| 13:55.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 13:55.25 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 13:55.34 | Legorol | zenzelezz: do you play warrior a lot? |
| 13:55.45 | zenzelezz | exclusively |
| 13:56.00 | Beladona | warriors pwn |
| 13:56.01 | zenzelezz | I'm not much of an alt person |
| 13:56.06 | Legorol | there is one thing that i'd love: it would be nice if mages/locks could understand how threat works |
| 13:56.17 | Beladona | good ones do |
| 13:56.20 | Legorol | i would love it if they waited with their AoE until i do a charge and demo shout |
| 13:56.31 | Legorol | even that can significantly reduce the beating they take |
| 13:56.52 | Legorol | Beladona: sure |
| 13:57.06 | Legorol | unfortunately, even most reasonable mages don't understand the importance of initial aggro |
| 13:57.09 | Beladona | maybe I am spoiled though. The lock and mage that I routinely play with are experienced players |
| 13:57.29 | Legorol | i have seen lot of good mages and locks, who are good at playing their class, but |
| 13:57.46 | Beladona | oh I know |
| 13:57.46 | Legorol | very few people actually know how threat and aggro-change and the 10% threshold work |
| 13:57.56 | Beladona | that isn't exclusive to mages and locks though |
| 13:57.59 | Legorol | true |
| 13:58.11 | Legorol | oh and the amount of warriors that think Taunt generates threat |
| 13:58.15 | Beladona | it can be hell for my warrior in a pug |
| 13:58.16 | Legorol | *smacks head against wall* |
| 13:58.28 | Beladona | I like the idiots that freak out when they DO get aggro |
| 13:58.35 | Beladona | and end up backing into more |
| 13:58.35 | Legorol | yeah that's really bad too |
| 13:58.42 | Legorol | stopp running around, please, let me get it off you! |
| 13:58.59 | zenzelezz | I've stopped trying to explain to PUGs that they should run *to* me, not *from* me if they want to lose aggro |
| 13:59.15 | Beladona | I am tank, AND puller for just about any group I do. And it pisses me off when people don't know where the aggro lines are |
| 13:59.41 | Legorol | no offense to DPS warriors, but i enjoy tanking far more |
| 13:59.46 | Beladona | same here |
| 13:59.48 | zenzelezz | aye |
| 13:59.52 | Legorol | i find it lot more of a challenge |
| 13:59.58 | zenzelezz | I don't mind DPS warriors, but it's not for me |
| 14:00.02 | Legorol | and is it just me, or OT has it hardest? |
| 14:00.02 | Beladona | the core group in my guild has a special situation though |
| 14:00.10 | Beladona | we have 2 warriors that are there, all the time |
| 14:00.13 | Legorol | MT just picks whatever targets he wants, charges in, then starts tanking |
| 14:00.14 | zenzelezz | OT is tricky |
| 14:00.24 | Legorol | as an OT i need an overview of the whole battle.. need to know whom to taunt, whom to tank, |
| 14:00.25 | zenzelezz | you have to generate threat, but not too much |
| 14:00.26 | Beladona | the other one recently went dps simply because having both of us prot was silly |
| 14:00.27 | Legorol | watch the healers etc. |
| 14:00.53 | Beladona | especially since I am pretty good about peeling aggro off anyone, up to about 4 mobs |
| 14:00.59 | zenzelezz | Beladona: Fury or Arms DPS? |
| 14:01.04 | Legorol | yeah i tend to end up as OT in guild raids because i don't have enough experience yet to be MT |
| 14:01.04 | Beladona | fury, with some arms |
| 14:01.05 | Legorol | that means more fun for me :) |
| 14:01.24 | Beladona | she gets something like 200dps average |
| 14:01.32 | Legorol | you know, the other day i explained to a bunch of people how Taunt works... and most of them were surprised :) |
| 14:01.34 | Beladona | according to my dmg meters |
| 14:01.39 | Beladona | I get somewhere around 100-150 |
| 14:01.42 | Legorol | oh, and this is my favourite one: |
| 14:01.44 | Beladona | which is good for prot |
| 14:01.44 | zenzelezz | DPS generally involves both trees, but more focus on one of them =) If I were to do something I'd go 2h, just because it seems more fun than dual wield |
| 14:02.05 | Legorol | in pugs, mages that yell at me to Taunt the mobs first when i charge in, to generate threat, so that they stick to me an |
| 14:02.16 | Legorol | or any other class for that matter |
| 14:02.27 | Beladona | we have tested 2h versus dual, and we both get more dps out of dual wield |
| 14:02.34 | Legorol | i had one situation where i got yelled abuse for refusing to do a taunt straight after charging in |
| 14:02.40 | Beladona | unless you are a crit warrior |
| 14:02.44 | Beladona | then 2h is better |
| 14:02.48 | zenzelezz | I'm not talking about doing most damage, just what seems more fun =) |
| 14:03.04 | Legorol | yeah i prefer 2H too |
| 14:03.06 | Cide | dual wield is infinitely better than 2h for maximum dps |
| 14:03.09 | Legorol | because of fun |
| 14:03.11 | Beladona | nothing like a 4k plus execute to make you get giggly all over |
| 14:03.18 | Legorol | i agree that dual weild is better for dps |
| 14:03.38 | Cide | but ya, dps = average = boring! |
| 14:03.50 | Legorol | Beladona, why does crit warrior prefer 2H? |
| 14:03.55 | Beladona | true, but when we are taking down a boss where dps is key -- screw what is fun |
| 14:04.00 | zenzelezz | I enjoy seeing a 2500-2900 execute, but that's about as high as I get :) |
| 14:04.01 | Beladona | lol |
| 14:04.16 | Beladona | because the higher your top end dmg is, the higher your crits |
| 14:04.22 | Legorol | ehm... |
| 14:04.26 | Legorol | ok, i don't get that part |
| 14:04.30 | Beladona | you hit slower, but your top end dmg causes your crits to skyrocket |
| 14:04.35 | Legorol | wait a mo.. |
| 14:04.45 | zenzelezz | weapon's maximum damage |
| 14:04.46 | Legorol | your crit % is the same, so the average dmg you deal is the same |
| 14:04.50 | Beladona | top end dmg is the second number on your dmg for your weapon |
| 14:04.54 | Legorol | yeah i understand what you meant by top end |
| 14:04.56 | Beladona | crits are based off that |
| 14:05.01 | Legorol | ehm.. no? |
| 14:05.06 | Beladona | not talking about crit CHANCE |
| 14:05.12 | Legorol | yeah i understand |
| 14:05.20 | Legorol | afaik a crit works exactly the same way as a normal hit: |
| 14:05.29 | Legorol | it's somewhere between the bottom and top end |
| 14:05.32 | Beladona | right |
| 14:05.37 | Legorol | sorry i mean somewhere between twice the bottom and top end |
| 14:05.38 | Beladona | but a higher top end means higher crits |
| 14:05.41 | Legorol | just like a normal hit |
| 14:05.59 | Legorol | yes the highest number you see floating up is higher, but that doesn't mean more DPS |
| 14:05.59 | Beladona | you won't get those high top ends on a one hander |
| 14:06.03 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:06.06 | Legorol | but why does that matter? |
| 14:06.16 | Beladona | I wish I had numbers to show you |
| 14:06.19 | Legorol | i understand people are obsessed with seeing big numbers float and breaking records |
| 14:06.20 | Beladona | but there are numbers to it |
| 14:06.24 | Legorol | wait wait |
| 14:06.36 | Legorol | I know that the *maximum* you can crit for is higher if you have a SH |
| 14:06.41 | Legorol | s/SH/2H/ |
| 14:06.56 | Legorol | but the *average* damage output is the same no matter your weapon speed |
| 14:07.02 | Beladona | hit chance, crit chance, and top end dmg is important for a crit warrior |
| 14:07.13 | Legorol | you are stating that like a mantra, can we discuss the math of it? |
| 14:07.13 | Beladona | and obviously crit chance |
| 14:07.25 | Legorol | i understand the role of hit/crit chance |
| 14:07.31 | Legorol | i don't understand the role of top end |
| 14:07.40 | Legorol | your average damage output is not affected by the top end |
| 14:07.47 | Beladona | and I doubt you will till you run tests on it |
| 14:07.49 | Legorol | only purely by the weapon's dps |
| 14:08.02 | Beladona | I never said anything about average |
| 14:08.06 | Beladona | but is crit average dmg? |
| 14:08.09 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:08.12 | JoshBorke | not to jump in mid discussion, but wouldn't a higher crit chance make the difference between the 2H top-end and the 1H top-end? |
| 14:08.13 | Beladona | I disagree |
| 14:08.24 | JoshBorke | bigger that is |
| 14:08.32 | Beladona | no it just makes you crit more often |
| 14:08.33 | Beladona | not harder |
| 14:08.36 | Legorol | Beladona: a crit works just like a normal hit |
| 14:08.48 | Legorol | take your weapon's damage range, e.g. 100-200 |
| 14:08.53 | Legorol | then your crits will be for 200-400 |
| 14:09.13 | Beladona | right |
| 14:09.14 | Legorol | higher top end just means you will occasionally see higher numbers float above your head |
| 14:09.40 | Beladona | which is what a crit warrior is after |
| 14:09.42 | Legorol | the average damage from crits should be exactly twice the average damage from normal hits |
| 14:09.43 | Beladona | .... |
| 14:09.51 | Beladona | if you wanted dps, you wouldn't be a crit warrior |
| 14:09.51 | Legorol | ok, then that's the bit i don't understand |
| 14:10.01 | Beladona | its the difference between sustained dps, and crits |
| 14:10.13 | Legorol | i am saying, why does it matter how big the number above your head is, if on average you deal the same damage? |
| 14:10.15 | Legorol | example: |
| 14:10.29 | Legorol | a weapon with 300-500 damage range versus 200-600 |
| 14:10.34 | Legorol | they both deal same average damage |
| 14:10.41 | Legorol | why does it matter if the top end is higher? |
| 14:10.49 | Legorol | please explain that part, because that's the part i don't understand |
| 14:10.56 | Beladona | don't forget that a crit warrior focuses on skills that are in effect on crit |
| 14:11.07 | Beladona | it affects their dmg output |
| 14:11.15 | Legorol | again, you are stating that as a fact |
| 14:11.37 | Legorol | if you are referring to stuff like deep wound, |
| 14:11.53 | Legorol | the average damage you deal with deep wounds is the same for the 300-500 weapon as for the 200-600 weapon |
| 14:12.10 | Beladona | I give up. I can't prove it to you, unless I can show dps trends between the specs |
| 14:12.19 | Beladona | and really it isn't about dps either |
| 14:12.29 | Legorol | ok, let's try a different approach then |
| 14:12.33 | Cide | 1% crit is a constant +damage%.. so your damage will increase by 1 (100% increase) * critRate |
| 14:12.42 | Cide | on average |
| 14:12.53 | Legorol | do we agree that the average damage output is independent of weapon's damage range? |
| 14:12.55 | Beladona | its surge dmg |
| 14:12.59 | Beladona | more or less |
| 14:12.59 | Legorol | or is this point contested |
| 14:13.24 | Cide | it results in spike damage but it increases your dps linearly over an infinite duration, right |
| 14:13.44 | Cide | well |
| 14:13.49 | Beladona | your original question was why crit warrior would focus on 2h over dual wield |
| 14:13.51 | Beladona | I believe |
| 14:13.55 | Legorol | no |
| 14:14.02 | Legorol | my question is why does a crit warrior focus on top-end |
| 14:14.27 | Legorol | i appreciate why you want a 2H over a dual weild |
| 14:14.29 | Beladona | Legorol: Beladona, why does crit warrior prefer 2H? |
| 14:14.36 | Legorol | ah ok |
| 14:14.37 | Legorol | sorry |
| 14:14.44 | Legorol | i'm happy with the 2H part now |
| 14:14.55 | Legorol | but given two 2H weapons with identical DPS, |
| 14:14.59 | Legorol | does the top-end matter? |
| 14:15.04 | Legorol | that's the part i don't understand |
| 14:15.13 | Beladona | my answer was that 2handers have higher top end dmg. i guess I shoulda said higher average dmg |
| 14:15.23 | Legorol | ok, that makes more sense |
| 14:15.33 | Legorol | but the two are very different things, that's why i contested your statement |
| 14:15.43 | Beladona | your dps might be the same between dual and 2h, due to 2h being slower |
| 14:15.50 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:16.00 | Beladona | depending on how much you crit, and how hard |
| 14:16.04 | Legorol | a 2H has higher DPS on the weapon |
| 14:16.26 | Legorol | ok that statement of mine doesn't make much sense :) |
| 14:16.34 | Beladona | higher dmg range? |
| 14:16.40 | Legorol | no |
| 14:16.42 | Legorol | what i mean is: |
| 14:17.00 | Legorol | a crit warrior prefers the 2H because of the higher average damage of the weapon |
| 14:17.05 | Legorol | is that correct? |
| 14:17.17 | Legorol | top-end has nothing to do with it, in my opinion |
| 14:17.31 | Beladona | I follow this rule: for dual wield, dps is important. For single plus shield, dmg per hit is important. For 2h, its the dmg range for me |
| 14:17.47 | Legorol | ok, consider a 2H which has 400-500 damage range, and one that has 100-600 |
| 14:17.54 | Legorol | which one is the better weapon for crit warrior? |
| 14:17.59 | Beladona | top end is part of the equation when looking at average dmg though. So it DOES matter |
| 14:18.04 | Legorol | what? |
| 14:18.13 | Legorol | the average damage only depends on the average of the damage range |
| 14:18.27 | Legorol | has nothing to do with the top end... a 400-500 weapon and 300-600 has same average |
| 14:18.29 | Beladona | you are still gonna have hits that reach the top end |
| 14:18.39 | Legorol | yes, and same for bottom end |
| 14:19.00 | Beladona | 300-500 equals 1000 max crit no? |
| 14:19.16 | Legorol | yes, it's 1000 crit *max* but your *average* dmg from crits is 800 |
| 14:19.16 | Beladona | 300-600 = 1200 max crit |
| 14:19.27 | Legorol | yes, but why are you obsessed about the *max* |
| 14:19.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mr_Rabies2|away (i=yams@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:19.33 | Legorol | if i go out and spend an hour killing mobs, |
| 14:19.42 | Beladona | and thats a bad example anyway |
| 14:19.44 | Legorol | the amount of damage from crits will be equal to the average * time |
| 14:19.49 | Beladona | because weapon ranges are never that linear |
| 14:20.01 | Legorol | i still don't understand the significance of the *max* |
| 14:20.14 | Legorol | if you compare two weapons, you should be comparing the average dmg of the weapon |
| 14:20.15 | Cide | it's only significant in pvp, really |
| 14:20.25 | Cide | where you want as much spike damage as possible to throw off healers |
| 14:20.26 | Beladona | thats a big part of it yeah |
| 14:20.29 | Legorol | pvp? i don't know much about that, please explain Cide |
| 14:20.35 | Cide | I play a priest |
| 14:20.45 | Legorol | ok |
| 14:20.59 | Cide | it's a ton easier to heal 1000 constant dps than 9k damage, wait 9 seconds, 9k damage, wait 9 seconds |
| 14:21.13 | Legorol | ok that's a fair point |
| 14:21.29 | Cide | though a 9 second wait is still quite trivial, but you get my point |
| 14:21.45 | Legorol | i understand how in PvP spike damage is important |
| 14:21.53 | Legorol | i can also understand how a higher top-end can produce bigger crits, and therefore confuse healer more |
| 14:21.54 | Cide | max damage shouldn't affect your overall damage in any way though |
| 14:22.00 | Legorol | exactly my point too |
| 14:22.27 | Beladona | I think we agree, we just don't understand each other |
| 14:22.38 | Beladona | to me crits aren't about average dmg |
| 14:22.41 | Legorol | well not really, because you said you'd pick a weapon that has higher top-end |
| 14:22.49 | Legorol | yes, so we disagree |
| 14:22.49 | Beladona | I would |
| 14:22.56 | Legorol | because to me any weapon is about average dmg |
| 14:23.02 | Beladona | thats where we disagree |
| 14:23.10 | Legorol | Beladona, let me ask this question again, which you never answered: |
| 14:23.22 | Beladona | if I wwas focused on average dmg, I would go for dps spec with dual wield |
| 14:23.23 | Legorol | given two weapons, one with 400-500 damage range, and one with 100-600, which one do you pick? |
| 14:23.34 | Beladona | you have MORE average dmg that way |
| 14:23.41 | Legorol | you have more average damage with teh 400-500 |
| 14:23.48 | Legorol | since the average is 450 |
| 14:23.54 | Legorol | the other has average 350 |
| 14:24.01 | Beladona | well of course, and the 100 low end has an effect I agree |
| 14:24.09 | Beladona | but then I don't go for weapons with taht much variance |
| 14:24.15 | Legorol | you never said that |
| 14:24.23 | Legorol | you simply said that a weapon with higher top end is better |
| 14:24.24 | Beladona | its not black and white |
| 14:24.53 | Legorol | all i was contesting is that the statement "higher top end is better" is incorrect in my opinion, and the statement shoudl be "higher average is better" |
| 14:25.18 | Legorol | unless you consider the spike effect in PvP that Cide mentioned, but that's a whole different story |
| 14:25.36 | Beladona | well I was considering spike effect |
| 14:25.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Rallion (i=Rallion@cpe-24-195-130-102.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 14:25.48 | Beladona | since for me crit warriors are really more about pvp than pve |
| 14:25.56 | Legorol | ok, then that was a misunderstanding |
| 14:26.04 | Legorol | PvP hasn't even entered my mind until Cide mentioned it |
| 14:26.06 | Beladona | pve should really be prot or dps |
| 14:26.19 | Beladona | but then thats my opinion |
| 14:26.24 | Legorol | ok, i was thinking about a crit warrior in PvE |
| 14:26.35 | Legorol | since we were talking about PvE |
| 14:26.45 | Beladona | I don't think I would even take a crit warrior to an instance to be honest |
| 14:27.03 | Legorol | ok i didn't realise you had that in mind |
| 14:27.25 | Legorol | I thought we were comparing different warriors in a PvE environment |
| 14:27.30 | Beladona | check this out |
| 14:27.31 | Beladona | http://tpr-wow.wiki.xs4all.nl/index.php?title=Number_Crunching#Crit_.25_.28C.29 |
| 14:27.47 | Beladona | good numbers on hit dmg and effects of crit chance and other factors |
| 14:27.54 | Legorol | it's a nice page, what am i supposed to check out on it? |
| 14:29.15 | Beladona | in my experience, crit warriors generate tons of rage too |
| 14:30.19 | Legorol | Ok I think the problem here is this: |
| 14:30.38 | Legorol | I have a measurable quantity which I use as a measure of how good i think a particular weapon is |
| 14:30.42 | Legorol | (namely average damage) |
| 14:30.56 | Legorol | and i have a justification for it, namely that it directly determines your average damage output |
| 14:31.03 | Legorol | that's the number that i use as a measure |
| 14:31.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:32.05 | Rallion | So...do we expect a patch tomorrow? |
| 14:32.23 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:32.50 | Legorol | anyway, thanks for the discussion |
| 14:32.54 | Legorol | i'm afraid i have to run now |
| 14:32.56 | Kirkburn | Helloo! |
| 14:33.12 | Kirkburn | Hi (and bye?) Legorol =) |
| 14:33.30 | Beladona | lol |
| 14:33.51 | Beladona | maybe I typify warriors too much. In my mind there are only 3 kinds |
| 14:34.09 | Kirkburn | Alive, dead and angry? |
| 14:34.13 | Beladona | with varying degrees of effectiveness between each of course |
| 14:34.19 | Beladona | hah, nice |
| 14:34.27 | Beladona | isn't angry and alive the same thing? |
| 14:34.44 | Kirkburn | Very probably :P |
| 14:34.50 | Cide | angry is the state they get into when you bitch at them for tanking instead of them, as a priest |
| 14:35.12 | Beladona | a good tank doesn't get angry about that |
| 14:35.18 | Cide | :) |
| 14:35.20 | Beladona | or doens't have a problem in the first place |
| 14:35.32 | Cide | nah |
| 14:35.37 | Cide | was just a fun episode from last night |
| 14:36.01 | Beladona | while we are on that subject |
| 14:36.04 | Cide | where, after clearing all of AQ without a single wipe, we go and kill the royals and wipe twice, due to terrible tanking |
| 14:36.04 | Beladona | of dps |
| 14:36.12 | Beladona | ouch |
| 14:36.33 | Cide | actually we wiped to twin emps once too, but almost flawless |
| 14:36.41 | Beladona | you would be surprised how many warriors don't understand what taunt really does |
| 14:36.49 | Beladona | many just hit taunt, and tahts it |
| 14:37.19 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 14:37.25 | JoshBorke | i can't wait for BC! when my paladin can taunt! |
| 14:37.30 | Beladona | they don't realize that it only makes you equal hate to the top person on the hate list, which is probably the priest |
| 14:37.42 | Beladona | if you don't do anything immediately to elevate your hate, its just gonna go back to the priest |
| 14:38.03 | Beladona | wait |
| 14:38.04 | Beladona | no |
| 14:38.09 | Beladona | they are giving paladins taunt? |
| 14:38.15 | JoshBorke | sort of |
| 14:38.30 | Beladona | omg |
| 14:38.32 | Beladona | assholes |
| 14:38.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slickhenry (i=mikehunt@gateway/tor/x-e15a99d2a89e89c6) |
| 14:38.45 | JoshBorke | we'll be able to target a priest, hit our taunt, and then all the aggro on the priest transfers to the paladin (within a certain range) |
| 14:38.51 | wereHamster | JoshBorke, hi |
| 14:38.55 | JoshBorke | wereHamster, hola :-) |
| 14:39.30 | Legorol | actually i don't have to go just yet, yay! |
| 14:39.34 | Beladona | that pisses me off, you have no idea |
| 14:39.42 | Legorol | yes Beladona, about the Taunt thing, you are very right |
| 14:39.44 | Beladona | I already have issues with paladins who think THEY should be the tank |
| 14:39.44 | wereHamster | new coolDown version is available |
| 14:39.45 | JoshBorke | Beladona, why's that? |
| 14:40.01 | Legorol | what i personally tend to do is i don't taunt until i have enough rage to be able to follow it up immediately with a sunder or revenge |
| 14:40.01 | JoshBorke | wereHamster, i saw :-) gonna see about installing it the next chance i play :-) |
| 14:40.12 | Kirkburn | JoshBorke, you'll still have to get to level 70 first |
| 14:40.19 | JoshBorke | Kirkburn, i know :-( |
| 14:40.22 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 14:40.36 | JoshBorke | how are they going to make the grind from 60-70 take so long? |
| 14:40.44 | Kirkburn | Lots and LOTS of quests |
| 14:40.44 | Beladona | they better be adding things for warriors to superscede their taunt |
| 14:40.45 | Cide | they're not? |
| 14:40.47 | Kirkburn | Abd dungeons |
| 14:40.48 | JoshBorke | are they going to use a different scale for XP required? |
| 14:40.49 | Kirkburn | *and |
| 14:41.08 | Cide | gamespot, I believe, stated that it's twice as long as 50-6 |
| 14:41.09 | Kirkburn | Same scale afaik |
| 14:41.09 | Cide | 60* |
| 14:41.17 | Legorol | Beladona: i actually have a strategy for two warriors to exploit Taunt |
| 14:41.21 | Cide | which isn't bad at all |
| 14:41.36 | Legorol | on a boss where you are both supposed to be tanking and competing for aggro, currently most people use a strategy whereby |
| 14:41.40 | JoshBorke | Beladona, but paladins can tank :-( if you have an equally capable warrior though, paladins are better off healing |
| 14:41.44 | Legorol | both warriors spam sunder, and occasionally taunt |
| 14:41.58 | Legorol | My strategy is this: let one warrior spam a bunch of sunders, other builds up rage |
| 14:42.05 | wereHamster | JoshBorke, do you use svn? |
| 14:42.09 | Legorol | then the 2nd one taunts, thereby capitalising on all sunders the 1st one did |
| 14:42.13 | JoshBorke | wereHamster, but of course :-) |
| 14:42.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kilkbuln (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:42.19 | Legorol | and then he exhausts his rage for 5 more sunders say |
| 14:42.24 | JoshBorke | wb Kilkbuln |
| 14:42.25 | Legorol | that point the 1st warrior taunts, and so on |
| 14:42.30 | Kilkbuln | *sigh* :) |
| 14:42.35 | Cide | Legorol: heh, well |
| 14:42.49 | Cide | that doesn't work on any raid boss past the drakes in BWL, pretty much |
| 14:42.50 | Legorol | if you do it right, sounds like you should be able to generate huge amount of threat, capitalising on each other |
| 14:42.52 | Beladona | thats a good strategy Lego |
| 14:42.53 | Legorol | never tried it mind you :) |
| 14:43.03 | Beladona | might need teamspeak to coordinate it, but it would work |
| 14:43.06 | Cide | almost all raid bosses are immune to taunt |
| 14:43.10 | Legorol | Cide: i don't know any bosses in BWL since i have never been, but |
| 14:43.17 | Legorol | well yeah, if they are immune to taunt, that's different |
| 14:43.24 | Beladona | theoretically you would get so high on the hate list, noone could peel it off you |
| 14:43.26 | Cide | doesn't work on Huhuran, Fankriss, Gluth, etc |
| 14:43.27 | Legorol | but there are bosses which aren't, and you put two tanks on them |
| 14:43.37 | Cide | all of which need tank transitions |
| 14:43.39 | Legorol | Cide: i don't even know who those are :) |
| 14:43.40 | Beladona | or off THEM |
| 14:43.49 | Kilkbuln | (iirc, the expansion's areas will all be around the size of EPl) |
| 14:43.58 | Cide | Huhuran stacks an undispellable debuff that does damage |
| 14:44.12 | Legorol | there is a slight flaw in my strategy though: |
| 14:44.12 | Beladona | hey JoshBorke: where did you find this stuff about Paladin taunts? |
| 14:44.17 | JoshBorke | Kilkbuln, where do you get all your information?! |
| 14:44.20 | Beladona | and is there stuff for warriors? |
| 14:44.21 | Kilkbuln | Hehe |
| 14:44.22 | Cide | Fankriss stacks a debuff that does -10% healing taken per stack - up to 100% (can't heal) |
| 14:44.26 | Kilkbuln | Mucho fun |
| 14:44.28 | Legorol | usually you want two tanks because one can lose aggro, e.g. gets mindcontrolled or some such |
| 14:44.32 | Kilkbuln | I read the bluetracker a LOT |
| 14:44.33 | Cide | Gluth has Fankriss' debuff, but also AoE fears every 20 seconds |
| 14:44.38 | Kilkbuln | The spell info was in the recent previews |
| 14:44.42 | Beladona | I will seriously bee sending Blizz a letter if they make warriors job harder with rogue paladins around |
| 14:44.54 | Legorol | so in practice, the way i'd do it is to actually make both warriors start with sunders simultaneously, to make sure they both have some initial aggro |
| 14:45.08 | Legorol | and then start doing the alternating strategy i mentioned |
| 14:45.16 | Kilkbuln | Bloodlust and the snap aggro (Pally taunt) spells were described |
| 14:45.31 | Beladona | the problem with simultaneous sunders though, is that they even out the hate list |
| 14:45.36 | Beladona | and neither get very high |
| 14:45.40 | Kilkbuln | Working on the wowwiki certainly helps, too =) |
| 14:46.08 | Beladona | I tend to make one tank do all the sunders, and then use taunt to swap aggro when it is necessary |
| 14:46.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@adsl-212-53-129.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:46.32 | Legorol | that's almost what i said |
| 14:46.38 | Beladona | (has had plenty of experience with 2 warriors per group, or more per raid |
| 14:46.54 | Beladona | I know, just referring to the 2 warriors sundering thing |
| 14:46.55 | Legorol | in my case, you'd just coordinate it a little better, to maximise the effect of Taunt |
| 14:47.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:47.11 | Legorol | as i said, you do the simultaneous sunders only at the beginning, say 3 sunders each |
| 14:47.13 | Beladona | would rather see 5 sunders from one warrior before the other starts |
| 14:47.18 | Kirkburn1 | (hello. again) |
| 14:47.22 | Legorol | that can be dangerous |
| 14:47.36 | Beladona | not if the main warrior is good |
| 14:47.39 | Legorol | if the 1st warrior gets feared/MCd etc. and the 2nd one has done no sunders, then boss goes for dps or healer |
| 14:47.53 | Beladona | not if the second warrior taunts |
| 14:48.01 | Legorol | true |
| 14:48.06 | Beladona | ie = hate list as first warrior |
| 14:48.08 | Legorol | ok, so that's better for my plan too |
| 14:48.24 | Legorol | you have a point there, there is no reason to play it safe, the 2nd warrior can just stand by with a taunt |
| 14:48.57 | Beladona | there are other taunt skills applicable here too |
| 14:49.01 | Cide | well, there is one flaw |
| 14:49.15 | Legorol | go on |
| 14:49.26 | Cide | theoretically anyway, judging by what I've read about warrior threat |
| 14:49.48 | Cide | taunt only gives you the extra +10% to maintain aggro over the threshold if you are the first aggro target, as far as I know |
| 14:50.38 | Beladona | actually, it only sticks the mob to you during the initial use, after that you must gain threat to hold it |
| 14:50.53 | Beladona | taunt alone isn't effective |
| 14:51.14 | Beladona | but that should be obvious |
| 14:51.32 | Legorol | Cide: afaik Taunt doesn't even give you that |
| 14:51.36 | Cide | hmm, they might have changed it |
| 14:51.50 | Cide | Recently (1.11.x), the behaviour of Taunt has been buffed slightly. It now does three things: |
| 14:51.52 | Cide | 1) Taunt debuff. The mob is forced to attack you for 3 seconds. Later taunts by other players override this. |
| 14:51.52 | Beladona | yeah it doesn't give you extra threat, it only equalizes you with the first person in the hate list |
| 14:51.53 | Cide | 2) You are given threat equal to the mob's previous aggro target, permanently. Importantly, you won't necessarily get as much threat as the highest person on the mob's list, only as much as whoever is currently tanking it. |
| 14:51.54 | Legorol | all it does is elevates your threat to be equal to the person who currently has aggro |
| 14:51.55 | Cide | 3) You gain complete aggro on the mob at the instant you taunt. Usually you would need 10% more threat to gain aggro (see section 3), but a taunt now gives you instant aggro on the mob. Of course if other people are generating significant threat on the mob, they could exceed your threat by more than 10% before the taunt debuff wears off, and will gain aggro as soon as it does. There is no limit to the amount of threat you can gain from Ta |
| 14:52.07 | Cide | not according to that - but still not what I said |
| 14:52.36 | Cide | I believe it worked the way I stated before that change, but again, I might very well be wrong |
| 14:52.37 | zenzelezz | "you can gain from T" |
| 14:52.54 | Beladona | that doesn't sound like a buff |
| 14:52.54 | Cide | last sentence in 3) should be: There is no limit to the amount of threat you can gain from Taunt. |
| 14:53.05 | Kirkburn1 | I would never have guessed ;) |
| 14:53.12 | Legorol | i don't remember how it used to work, as i didn't do much with my warrior before 1.11 |
| 14:53.14 | Beladona | more like they reduced it's effectiveness |
| 14:53.21 | Legorol | how did it work before 1.11? |
| 14:53.28 | Cide | you now gain the +10% threat to keep aggro, how is that not a buff? |
| 14:53.34 | Legorol | you don't |
| 14:53.37 | Legorol | you don't gain it |
| 14:53.48 | Legorol | you gain a threat exactly equal to the current target |
| 14:53.55 | Cide | +10%, according to that |
| 14:53.56 | Beladona | how? because it doesn't increase your hate to the same as the top person on the hate list, which is how it should be ni my opinion |
| 14:54.05 | Legorol | Cide: no, the +10% part of the text means something else |
| 14:54.09 | Cide | You gain complete aggro on the mob at the instant you taunt. Usually you would need 10% more threat to gain aggro (see section 3), but a taunt now gives you instant aggro on the mob. |
| 14:54.21 | Legorol | this doesn't mean you get the +10% |
| 14:54.28 | Beladona | its situational, but I can see sitauations where you might not get the same hate as the first person |
| 14:54.28 | Legorol | it just means the +10% rule is ignored for Taunt |
| 14:54.31 | Cide | no |
| 14:54.34 | Cide | read the following part |
| 14:54.35 | Cide | Of course if other people are generating significant threat on the mob, they could exceed your threat by more than 10% before the taunt debuff wears off, and will gain aggro as soon as it does. |
| 14:54.44 | Legorol | that's a different thing altogether |
| 14:54.48 | Legorol | it refers to this scneario: |
| 14:54.51 | Cide | that basically says "they need to do ANOTHER 10% to gain aggro over you" |
| 14:54.52 | Rallion | jesus |
| 14:54.52 | Legorol | let's use numbers for example |
| 14:54.56 | Legorol | Cide: nope |
| 14:55.00 | Rallion | this is why I don't have a warrior |
| 14:55.00 | Beladona | well again, that means a warrior should be using other threat generation skills |
| 14:55.03 | Beladona | like shield bash |
| 14:55.05 | Beladona | or sunder |
| 14:55.14 | Legorol | Cide, i will give you an example of my interpretation |
| 14:55.22 | Legorol | let's have Joe the tank and Bob the rogue |
| 14:55.29 | zenzelezz | it's not that bad Rallion; just keep tossing threat generating abilities and if you still lose aggro, shout at the rogues |
| 14:55.31 | Legorol | Bob the rogue manages to generate 1000 threat, and thereby steals aggro |
| 14:55.41 | Beladona | Rallion, it is something you grow into |
| 14:55.50 | Legorol | normally, in order for Joe to gain back aggro, he'd have to climb up to a total of 1100 threat (because of the 10% rule) |
| 14:55.53 | Beladona | when you are actuallly tanking, you aren't sitting there running numbers |
| 14:56.03 | Beladona | its more a "feeling" that you are good at, or not in some cases =P |
| 14:56.09 | Kirkburn1 | Aahahahahahaa!!!! http://www.whoresofwarcraft.com/ |
| 14:56.10 | Legorol | however, if you use Taunt, what happens is that your threat gets raised to exactly 1000 *and* you gain aggro |
| 14:56.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge DoomGaze3 (i=DoomGaze@74.128.147.210) |
| 14:56.31 | Legorol | you are then guaranteed to have aggro for 6 seconds |
| 14:56.45 | Cide | correct |
| 14:56.51 | Beladona | at which point you must generate more hate in order to keep it |
| 14:56.53 | Cide | err |
| 14:56.53 | Legorol | at this point, both you and Bob have exactly 1000 threat |
| 14:56.58 | Cide | 6 seconds? are you talking about mocking blow? |
| 14:56.59 | Tem | Beladona, no |
| 14:57.01 | Rallion | Kirkburn, I'd hot that. |
| 14:57.01 | Legorol | so over the next 6 seconds, |
| 14:57.08 | Rallion | or hit it. either way. |
| 14:57.10 | Beladona | how not Tem? |
| 14:57.24 | Beladona | the rogue would just outdo your threat once taunt wore off |
| 14:57.25 | Legorol | oops i meant 3 seconds, or however long Taunt debuff is |
| 14:57.28 | Legorol | forget the duration |
| 14:57.36 | Beladona | unless you generated more threat to elevate you on the list |
| 14:57.39 | Tem | Beladona, the rogue must overdo your threat by 10% in order to pulli tback |
| 14:57.41 | Legorol | anyway, you both start at 1000 |
| 14:57.44 | Cide | alright |
| 14:57.47 | Beladona | RIGHT..... |
| 14:57.47 | Legorol | so now the race is on: |
| 14:57.55 | Tem | so if no one does anything after the taunt, you keep the agro |
| 14:57.56 | Beladona | but if he did it in the first place, wouldn't it make sense he would do it again? |
| 14:58.01 | Beladona | you can't just taunt and then thats it |
| 14:58.01 | Legorol | you need to generate enough threat so that when the taunt wears off, the rogue doesn't regain aggro |
| 14:58.07 | Cide | Legorol: ah, you're right |
| 14:58.13 | Cide | my bad |
| 14:58.19 | Beladona | Tem: when does everyone stop generating threat after you taunt? |
| 14:58.21 | Legorol | Tem: that's correct |
| 14:58.23 | Beladona | NEVER |
| 14:58.24 | Tem | no one |
| 14:58.29 | JoshBorke | Beladona, http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/worldofwarcraftexp1/news.html?sid=6155696 |
| 14:58.31 | Tem | that's not the point I was making |
| 14:58.32 | Legorol | actually Tem, they could generate a little bit of threat |
| 14:58.39 | Beladona | hence the need to generate more threat, otherwise you get overridden |
| 14:58.40 | Cide | what I think changed though, is that you maintain aggro regardless of whether you were the intial target or not |
| 14:58.43 | Legorol | as long as it's less than 100, so they don't go above 1100 |
| 14:59.07 | Beladona | this is why most warriors fail as tanks |
| 14:59.16 | Beladona | they taunt, and then don't do anything again till taunt is ready |
| 14:59.23 | Tem | I was simply saying that if you taunt, you only need to EQUAL the rogue's Threat/sec in order to keep agro |
| 14:59.36 | Beladona | which is what I said |
| 14:59.38 | Cide | before, if Bob was the initial aggro target, it'd go back to him since Joe didn't surpass Bob's 10% |
| 14:59.45 | Cide | when taunt faded |
| 14:59.48 | Legorol | Tem: actually, you can get away with slightly less |
| 14:59.54 | Tem | Legorol, yeah |
| 14:59.57 | Beladona | but since I doubt you are doing his dps, you need your skills to generate hate |
| 14:59.57 | Legorol | but yeah, by and large, over time, you have to equal his threat generation rate |
| 15:00.07 | Legorol | exactly, as Beladona says |
| 15:00.16 | Tem | lol, this conversation is funny |
| 15:00.16 | Legorol | that's why i don't taunt until i have enough rage for a sunder |
| 15:00.22 | Legorol | then i taunt, and immediately sunder |
| 15:00.26 | Tem | we're all saying the same thing |
| 15:00.28 | Beladona | if I am doing rogue dps, either I rock, or he sucks |
| 15:00.31 | Beladona | =P |
| 15:00.31 | Tem | just not understanding each other |
| 15:00.38 | zenzelezz | Revenge + Shield Slam spam \o/ |
| 15:00.55 | Kirkburn | Hehe: http://kotaku.com/gaming/porn/not-safe-for-warcraft-194176.php |
| 15:00.56 | Beladona | my mind is blanking, but there is another skill, talent based |
| 15:00.59 | Legorol | Tem: we are all agreeing |
| 15:00.59 | Beladona | not shield slam is it? |
| 15:01.09 | Legorol | and also convincing Cide a bit |
| 15:01.15 | zenzelezz | SHield Slam is almost as high threat as revenge |
| 15:01.17 | Kirkburn | (it's only slightly NSFW, that link) |
| 15:01.21 | Legorol | i think we are also trying to figure out what Taunt *used to* do, aren't we? |
| 15:01.23 | zenzelezz | Shield Bash is the weak one |
| 15:01.27 | wereHamster | as far as I understand, you get as much threat as the current target, but to keep aggro even after the taunt debuff wears off, you need to generate an additional 10% |
| 15:01.37 | Beladona | ahh yes |
| 15:01.38 | Legorol | no you don't, wereHamster |
| 15:01.42 | Cide | not anymore, anyway |
| 15:01.48 | Beladona | I only really bother with shield bash on casters |
| 15:02.00 | Legorol | i think that's how it *used to* work, before 1.11 |
| 15:02.00 | zenzelezz | of course, it's useless on anything else :) |
| 15:02.01 | Cide | like I said, that's how I think it USED to work if you weren't the initial aggro target |
| 15:02.03 | DoomGaze3 | does lua have a "continue" equivalent for loops? |
| 15:02.09 | Cide | DoomGaze3: no |
| 15:02.10 | wereHamster | so I can taunt and do nothing and still have aggro? |
| 15:02.16 | Beladona | its nice for pulling casters too, if your mage doesn't counter |
| 15:02.20 | zenzelezz | after the Shield Slam adjustment it's crazy threat generating |
| 15:02.20 | Legorol | as long as others don't do anything either, wereHamster |
| 15:02.29 | Legorol | of course if they keep generating threat, you will lose aggro again |
| 15:02.56 | Beladona | I have TankAlert |
| 15:03.07 | Beladona | but I modified it to play a siren sound when it goes off |
| 15:03.14 | Beladona | that way it annoys the hell out of me till I get aggro |
| 15:03.58 | Legorol | I think the slightly dangerous part about Taunt is the little caveat that you only gain as much threat as the *current* target |
| 15:04.06 | wereHamster | but you still have to generate 10% more threat than the current target to make the mob attack you? |
| 15:04.09 | Legorol | e.g. let's say apart from Bob the rogue, there's Cide the priest |
| 15:04.27 | Legorol | Bob currently has 1000 threat, and Cide, due to rampant healing, is now up to 1090, nearing the 10% threshold |
| 15:04.31 | wereHamster | eg. mage has to generate 10% more than the tank to gain aggro? |
| 15:04.38 | Legorol | yes |
| 15:04.39 | Cide | I'M A PRO HEALER |
| 15:04.42 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 15:04.51 | Legorol | anyway, if at this point you taunt, you will have 1000 threat |
| 15:04.56 | Cide | I don't have salvation; I'm horde |
| 15:05.07 | Legorol | so you better hurry up and generate a bunch more, as Cide is about to cross the 10% threshold |
| 15:05.18 | Cide | fade! fade!! |
| 15:05.20 | Legorol | if you don't do anything at this point, it's very easy for Cide to get the aggro |
| 15:05.23 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 15:05.32 | Cide | I fade every time it's up. |
| 15:05.37 | Cide | (and that was a joke) |
| 15:05.43 | Cide | I hate priests that do that, for the record |
| 15:05.45 | zenzelezz | then again, if you taunt and to nothing, you don't deserve aggro |
| 15:05.52 | zenzelezz | *do |
| 15:06.00 | Legorol | well, sometimes it can get tricky |
| 15:06.06 | Legorol | for example, let's say mob is beating priest |
| 15:06.11 | Legorol | you have to taunt, otherwise priest dies |
| 15:06.19 | Legorol | but you may not have enough rage to start dishing out some threat |
| 15:06.35 | Tem | rage potion ftw |
| 15:06.35 | Legorol | this can get very dangerous, if the priest keeps healing or rogues doing dps |
| 15:06.38 | Cide | the priest was probably fading constantly |
| 15:06.46 | Cide | and such, fade was on cooldown! |
| 15:07.09 | Legorol | i'm not quite sure how fade affects threat exaclty, |
| 15:07.17 | Legorol | is it a constant amount that gets subtracted? |
| 15:07.22 | Cide | yes |
| 15:07.22 | Tem | temporary loss, iirc |
| 15:07.28 | Cide | and then reapplied when it fades |
| 15:07.34 | Legorol | right, so it's temporary |
| 15:07.37 | Legorol | good to know that |
| 15:07.38 | Beladona | on the other hand though |
| 15:07.42 | Cide | you don't regain threat even if you go above the threshold though |
| 15:07.47 | Legorol | oh? |
| 15:07.49 | Cide | until you do another threat-causing action |
| 15:07.52 | Beladona | if you wait for Cide to get aggro, and then taunt, you will have 1100 instead |
| 15:07.56 | Legorol | ah right |
| 15:08.00 | Beladona | unless he fades first |
| 15:08.03 | Beladona | lol |
| 15:08.06 | Cide | so it's reapplied "passively" |
| 15:08.09 | zenzelezz | so then you get the old threat + new threat added? |
| 15:08.15 | Beladona | no |
| 15:08.17 | Legorol | Cide: right, just like with mobs that have a temporary aggro wipe |
| 15:08.18 | Cide | another thing with fade: |
| 15:08.29 | Cide | - if you are in melee range, the aggro threshold is 10% of the current aggro holder |
| 15:08.31 | Beladona | you get elevated to the same threat at the person who the mob is on currently |
| 15:08.39 | Cide | - if you are outside of melee range, the aggro threshold is 30% of the current aggro holder |
| 15:08.41 | Beladona | which is typically top on the list, but not always |
| 15:08.57 | Legorol | hmm.. a lvl 32 guildie is asking for 5g for a respec |
| 15:09.05 | Legorol | i wonder why he had to respec so often in 32 levels |
| 15:09.13 | Beladona | heh |
| 15:09.19 | Beladona | I am at the max |
| 15:09.56 | Cide | - if a person is faded, the aggro threshold for the priest to surpass in order to get aggro is higher than both 10% and 30% (according to fellow priests) |
| 15:09.56 | Legorol | Cide: yeah i know that part, and it actually raises an interesting question |
| 15:10.21 | Legorol | let's say someone is at 20% and is at range |
| 15:10.27 | Cide | exact amount hasn't been discovered, but it's High As Hell (TM) |
| 15:10.28 | Legorol | if they now walk up to the mob, do they gain aggro? |
| 15:10.30 | Legorol | probably not |
| 15:10.35 | Cide | probably not |
| 15:10.42 | Legorol | they'd probably have to hit him once |
| 15:10.55 | Cide | I think the game only reevaluates aggro target when a player does an aggro-causing action |
| 15:11.05 | wereHamster | so.. internally, the server has a threat list and the target who has aggro. Before 1.11? taunt only caused the mob to attack you bu you still had to do 10% more threat to not loose aggro after the debuff was over, now taunt automatically sets you as the 'target who has aggro', right? |
| 15:11.12 | Cide | same deal with fade fading and going over the 10/30% threshold (you don't get aggro immediately) |
| 15:11.15 | Legorol | Cide, that'd tie in with how "temporary aggro wipe" works |
| 15:11.28 | Legorol | makes sense from simplicity of code point of view |
| 15:11.50 | Legorol | wereHamster: that is my understanding, yes |
| 15:12.12 | wereHamster | it makes encounters like the second dragon in BWL easier.. :) |
| 15:12.37 | Legorol | one thing i'm not sure on: even before 1.11, did Taunt elevate your threat? |
| 15:12.51 | Legorol | i presume it did |
| 15:12.58 | Beladona | typically though, if w arrior is having issues with having to taunt off other players all the time. He isn't doing his aprt on the hate list in the first place |
| 15:13.08 | Beladona | =P |
| 15:13.15 | Beladona | hence the 5 sunders and stuff like that |
| 15:13.30 | zenzelezz | could also be the others going too all-out |
| 15:13.36 | Legorol | Beladona: actually, i sometimes do that on purpose |
| 15:13.37 | Beladona | true |
| 15:13.44 | Beladona | like a mage nuking right off the bat |
| 15:13.50 | Legorol | i build up rage, but deliberately let someone semi-tough (e.g. pala/pet) get aggro for a while |
| 15:14.00 | Legorol | it's very nice stealing all the threat that those Growls generated |
| 15:14.02 | Beladona | as do I |
| 15:14.21 | Legorol | and then i spam 5 sunders |
| 15:14.25 | Beladona | otherwise you get stuck in a situation where you have no rage, and a growl or likewise pulls aggro |
| 15:14.34 | Legorol | yeah |
| 15:14.42 | Beladona | then comes bloodrage |
| 15:14.44 | Beladona | =P |
| 15:14.49 | Legorol | and i sometimes get abused in PUGs because they have no idea why i'm acting the way i'm |
| 15:14.57 | Legorol | they're like "wtf dude, you have rage, just sunder already" |
| 15:15.09 | Legorol | and i'm like no! i'll let it hit you for a bit |
| 15:15.16 | Legorol | you can imagine the effect :) |
| 15:15.18 | Beladona | I have had people comment a couple times on how big my rage bar is (thats what she said!) |
| 15:15.22 | wereHamster | our last time in BWL, we had out MT tank broodlord from 100% till death, nobody could generate as much threat as he did.. Thunderfury really is a good tanking weapon |
| 15:15.43 | Beladona | oh yeah it is |
| 15:15.47 | Legorol | oh, and there is something i just found out recently that i didn't know until now: |
| 15:15.53 | Legorol | in Battle stance you only generate 80% threat |
| 15:15.59 | Beladona | you know what pisses me off the most though? |
| 15:16.01 | Legorol | quite surprising, and very good to know :) |
| 15:16.08 | Beladona | and I still don't understand blizzards logic for this |
| 15:16.11 | wereHamster | in def stance >100% ? |
| 15:16.13 | Legorol | yes |
| 15:16.17 | Legorol | def stance: 130% |
| 15:16.18 | Beladona | shields with aoe effects, and tanks that use them |
| 15:16.25 | wereHamster | berserker 100% ? |
| 15:16.39 | Legorol | sunder threat in battle stance: 206, in def stance: 338 |
| 15:16.49 | Legorol | berserker also 80% if i remember right |
| 15:16.49 | Beladona | which makes sense |
| 15:17.05 | Beladona | a dps warrior doesn't really want aggro |
| 15:17.08 | Beladona | =P |
| 15:17.20 | Legorol | the bit about battle stance is curious though.. |
| 15:17.28 | Legorol | i guess they really do want to force you in to def stance |
| 15:17.35 | Legorol | but this explains why in def stance you hold aggro so much better |
| 15:17.43 | Legorol | 130%/80% is a big difference |
| 15:17.58 | Beladona | I enver knew the numbers before, but good to know |
| 15:18.21 | Legorol | most threat calculations are normalized so that 1 white damage = 1 threat |
| 15:18.23 | Beladona | makes good argument with warriors who think fury spec should be as good a tank as prot spec |
| 15:18.32 | Rallion | i have a question about warrior aggro...I saw that rage generation creates aggro, but does that just mean rage generated by abilities, or does it include regular hitting-and-being-hit rage generation? |
| 15:18.39 | Legorol | well in def stance they both do the same with sunder and revenge :) |
| 15:18.45 | Beladona | of course |
| 15:18.56 | Beladona | but the prot gets more benefit from the defensive effects |
| 15:19.16 | Legorol | Rallion: afaik, yes, rage generation in and of itself generates aggro |
| 15:19.29 | Cide | I think that's only from items |
| 15:19.31 | Legorol | s/aggro/threat/ |
| 15:19.37 | Cide | that is, "You gain X rage." |
| 15:19.50 | Legorol | could be, but i vaguely remember this: |
| 15:19.51 | Cide | or whatever it says in the combat log |
| 15:19.51 | Beladona | Code: yes, but you also get skills that generate hate better than a fury spec |
| 15:19.54 | Beladona | err Cide |
| 15:19.59 | Cide | Code? yes sir! |
| 15:20.00 | Legorol | e.g. if you hit someone with white damage and get rage for it, you get threat for both the dmg and the rage |
| 15:20.06 | Legorol | but i can check, if you give me a minute |
| 15:20.23 | Rallion | it's not really important to me, I was just curious |
| 15:20.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:20.58 | Legorol | well what i can do is engage a mob, and stand still without hitting it |
| 15:21.04 | wereHamster | everything that appears in the combat log generates threat |
| 15:21.33 | Cide | almost true |
| 15:22.05 | wereHamster | what doesn't? |
| 15:22.08 | Cide | mana oil doesn't generate threat anymore, as far as I (and patch notes) know |
| 15:22.26 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.37 | Cide | haha, I laughed :( |
| 15:22.54 | wereHamster | or a rouge creating bandages.. |
| 15:22.54 | Tem | sad, isn't it? |
| 15:22.59 | Legorol | since i have anger management, i can generate rage whilst standing still |
| 15:23.07 | Cide | hmm |
| 15:23.14 | Legorol | let's see if that creates threat |
| 15:23.18 | Cide | bleh |
| 15:23.19 | Beladona | unless you have a shrink in your group. Then your anger management is handled by him |
| 15:23.24 | Beladona | a joke |
| 15:23.26 | Beladona | sorry |
| 15:23.27 | Cide | :) |
| 15:23.36 | Cide | the new, unannounced class |
| 15:24.13 | Cide | anyone feeling like helping me out with some code design issues after dinner?! |
| 15:24.16 | Beladona | its a mixture of priest, and rogue -- priest to heal you, rogue to hand you the knife to kill yourself when healing doesn't work |
| 15:24.18 | Rallion | SiggyFreud begins to cast Psychoanalysis. |
| 15:24.50 | Beladona | Cide: I can try to help |
| 15:25.08 | Tem | SiggyFreud is afflicte by Counterspelled - Silenced. |
| 15:25.09 | Cide | ok, bad joke - brb dinner |
| 15:25.11 | Rallion | SiggyFreud charges Tem double. |
| 15:25.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com) |
| 15:25.49 | zenzelezz | Your Counterspell crits. Target is permanently silenced. |
| 15:25.56 | Tem | imba |
| 15:26.16 | Tem | (I'd stack spell crit for that!) |
| 15:27.46 | Rallion | reminds me of the Wisps. |
| 15:27.56 | Rallion | "You die. Permanently." "Reroll?" |
| 15:28.12 | Rallion | i laughed way too hard at that. |
| 15:28.24 | zenzelezz | yeah, heh |
| 15:30.18 | Rallion | I remember my friend coming into work that day..."HEY! Did you see--" "It's April 1st." "--oh." |
| 15:33.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@adsl-212-53-129.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 15:34.06 | Kirkburn | Anyone know when the Leipzig convention starts? |
| 15:34.37 | Kirkburn | That is, the "Leipzig Games Convention 2006" |
| 15:35.04 | Kirkburn | Blizz have a BC booth there, so you can guarantee lots more info is incoming :) |
| 15:35.35 | Kirkburn | (also VALVe will be there in force with stuff on Portal and TF2, and all that jazz =) |
| 15:35.58 | zenzelezz | TF2... I remember pre-ordering that about six years ago |
| 15:36.03 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 15:36.24 | Rallion | isn't it in like a week? |
| 15:36.27 | Beladona | is it still on pre-order? |
| 15:36.34 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 15:36.41 | zenzelezz | no, the shop went bankrupt a few years ago |
| 15:36.46 | Beladona | lol |
| 15:36.48 | DoomGaze3 | mmmm, portal |
| 15:36.50 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 15:36.56 | Beladona | I will be getting that |
| 15:36.58 | Kirkburn | Rallion, I think you're right |
| 15:36.58 | DoomGaze3 | an FPS puzzler, whoda thunk |
| 15:37.10 | Beladona | there is no way NOT to get it |
| 15:37.27 | Kirkburn | A whole week more :( |
| 15:37.51 | DoomGaze3 | As if I wasn't getting HL2 ep 2 anyways. |
| 15:37.52 | Kirkburn | It's going to be a gooood Xmas time :D |
| 15:38.09 | DoomGaze3 | Pretty stupid imho, they could sell those games by themselves in still make a killing |
| 15:38.19 | DoomGaze3 | *and |
| 15:38.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Hexarobi (i=Hexarobe@71.15.119.130) |
| 15:39.10 | Hexarobi | greetings and salutations |
| 15:39.15 | Kirkburn | It's possible they might, of course, separate to the package |
| 15:39.35 | Kirkburn | (but still available as part of the normal package, I mean) |
| 15:39.44 | Kirkburn | Greets Hexarobi :) |
| 15:40.10 | Kirkburn | (god that was an awful explanantion) |
| 15:40.18 | Kirkburn | ("You die now?" /me clicks yes) |
| 15:40.32 | DoomGaze3 | ep 1 was fun, but I can see why they'd want to sweeten the deal too |
| 15:40.52 | DoomGaze3 | It was, after all, the REAL ending |
| 15:41.49 | Cide | hm, back |
| 15:41.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TS|Skrom_ (n=Skrom@66.148.226.210.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:42.07 | Cide | ok, I have no idea how to do this in a good way |
| 15:42.15 | Cide | it's gonna be quite hard to explain |
| 15:42.18 | Hexarobi | let the wookie win |
| 15:42.28 | TS|Skrom_ | I bent my wookie |
| 15:42.38 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 15:43.20 | TS|Skrom | Is there a table guru in the house? |
| 15:43.41 | Cide | okay, so... right now, I have one header frame, and then a number of member frames (the header being the group title for a raid group, each member frame being a raid member in that group) |
| 15:44.21 | Cide | I implemented that with a linked list, where each frame has .head and .tail set (except for the first and last frame, they only have one of 'em set, obviously) |
| 15:45.49 | Cide | simple enough... now, I need to implement the same thing, but support an arbitrary amount of columns (so not just linear positioning of "position below the previous frame"), maintaining the same number of frames in each column while possible |
| 15:47.02 | Cide | and it needs to be able to easily be re-sorted, in case I want to say, have the members with the least health "up top" (meaning top of left column -> bottom of left column -> top of middle column -> bottom of middle column -> top of right column, etc [assuming 3 columns]) |
| 15:47.06 | cogwheel | Couldn't you just make each one the child of the one "above" it? Then you'd just need to add an offset to the first frame of each column and all the others would follow... |
| 15:47.23 | Cide | the re-sort part is what makes it hard |
| 15:47.33 | Cide | or rather, hard to make it efficient |
| 15:48.18 | cogwheel | If you use parent/child relationships, that should all be handled c-side and would be more efficient than using lua linked list, wouldn't it? |
| 15:48.46 | Cide | how so? |
| 15:49.05 | JoshBorke | set the parent of a member frame to be another member frame |
| 15:49.12 | Cide | if a member is removed, and the player was in the left column, the top player in the middle column should move to the bottom of the left one, and then every member in the middle column should be shifted upwards (followed by the same thing happening in the right column) |
| 15:49.31 | Cide | don't see how that would help much |
| 15:49.59 | Cide | and I still need to be able to traverse through the list, which isn't very easy without a linked list in the first place |
| 15:50.04 | Legorol | About the earlier question on rage generation: |
| 15:50.16 | Legorol | According to KLHThreatMeater, just standing there getting hit doesn't generate threat |
| 15:50.37 | Legorol | neither the rage due to getting hit, nor the the rage due to anger management |
| 15:51.07 | TS|Skrom | none of those rage gains cause a +1 or whatever rage to appear in the chat box, so no that wouldn't cause threat |
| 15:51.18 | TS|Skrom | that would only be for actual "power gain" effects |
| 15:51.46 | Legorol | that is true, however, it could then again be the addon not being perfect |
| 15:51.49 | cogwheel | Say you have frames A->B->C. if you remove B, just change C's parent to A and then reapply the columnating code. |
| 15:51.55 | Legorol | i agree that there is no "you gain X rage" line in the chatlog |
| 15:52.03 | Legorol | but what if it generates threat anyway, and the addon is just missing it? |
| 15:52.13 | Legorol | but it's very easy to test this, if someone's up for a bit of testing |
| 15:52.18 | Legorol | it'd need two people |
| 15:52.19 | TS|Skrom | I think it's the "you gain x rage" chat lines that actually infer a threat gain (5 per point of rage gained) |
| 15:52.22 | Legorol | Let's make use of Draka :) |
| 15:52.25 | Cide | cogwheel: could easily be accomplished by :ClearAllPoints and :SetPoint which I do now. I don't see how that makes things easier |
| 15:52.30 | TS|Skrom | otherwise it'd be increadibly easy to gain threat.. |
| 15:52.49 | TS|Skrom | the best tank would be the naked one lol |
| 15:52.52 | Cide | the resorting and column switching is the annoying/hard part |
| 15:52.52 | Legorol | TS|Skrom: we were debating if rage gain generates threat or not |
| 15:53.00 | Legorol | not if taking damage generates threat |
| 15:53.08 | TS|Skrom | unless it triggers a "power gain" event I would say no |
| 15:53.12 | cogwheel | well, I was just thinking it might be more efficient. Then again, this won't be happening every frame or anything, so performance is proably not too much of an issue... |
| 15:53.34 | Cide | well, I could easily change to :SetParent if that's more efficient |
| 15:53.35 | JoshBorke | Cide: does each column have the same number of frames? |
| 15:53.36 | TS|Skrom | naked tank = more damage taken = more rage generated |
| 15:53.43 | Cide | JoshBorke: when possible, yes |
| 15:54.02 | Cide | with 3 columns and 10 people, it would be 4, 3, 3 in the columns (left, middle, right) |
| 15:54.17 | Legorol | TS|Skrom: yeah but die very quick too :) |
| 15:54.18 | JoshBorke | not 4,4,2? |
| 15:54.19 | TS|Skrom | if it were true that rage generated through taking damage = 5 threat per rage then naked tank > all in aggro sticky situations |
| 15:54.22 | Cide | no |
| 15:54.22 | TS|Skrom | hehe for true |
| 15:54.33 | Cide | as few people in the columns as possible |
| 15:54.36 | TS|Skrom | Legorol: That's prolly where the balance comes from. |
| 15:54.39 | TS|Skrom | AFK, work to do >< |
| 15:54.45 | Cide | fills them up left to right |
| 15:54.53 | JoshBorke | so you're defining by number of colums. and do headers count? |
| 15:54.58 | Cide | 1, 0, 0 -> 1, 1, 0 -> 1, 1, 1 -> 2, 1, 1 |
| 15:54.59 | JoshBorke | or are you just worrying about the members? |
| 15:55.00 | Cide | no |
| 15:55.03 | Cide | just members |
| 15:55.06 | JoshBorke | ok |
| 15:55.41 | Rallion | I am incredibly stupid. |
| 15:55.50 | Rallion | I just want to make sure everybody knows that. |
| 15:55.53 | Legorol | oh, i just found a new copper vein in Dun Morogh.. |
| 15:55.56 | Legorol | never seen it before! |
| 15:56.19 | Cide | totally unrelated: http://pandora.com/ <- very cool |
| 15:56.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 15:56.32 | JoshBorke | hrm |
| 15:56.50 | JoshBorke | <mem per col> = math.floor(<members>/<columns>) |
| 15:57.07 | JoshBorke | <mem in first col> = <mem per col> + math.mod(<members>,<columns>) |
| 15:57.24 | JoshBorke | then keep a separate index so you know where you stand in that list of numbers |
| 15:58.05 | Cide | I wonder if it's easier to keep one linked list for each column, or one total? |
| 15:58.07 | JoshBorke | then step through your linked list, when you reach the magic number, start a new column |
| 15:58.58 | Cide | plusses with only one is that you can move to another column easily, but the downside is that you have to implement special code if the member is the first player in a column |
| 15:59.08 | Cide | other way around for separate lists |
| 15:59.28 | Cide | though separate lists seems easier in some ways.. |
| 15:59.57 | Rallion | I was wondering why my fixes weren't working, then I realized that I was modifying the copy in WoW/Interface, and I was logged into the PTR |
| 16:00.21 | JoshBorke | Cide: why not mix? |
| 16:00.35 | Cide | heh, maybe |
| 16:01.00 | cogwheel | Cide, if you make them children, then the only special case is where the columns change and it would be a simple matter of changing the offset in the loop |
| 16:01.32 | Cide | cogwheel: children are basically the same thing as separate linked lists, isn't it? |
| 16:01.32 | cogwheel | It would make sorting immensly easier if you had a single list, though. |
| 16:01.44 | cogwheel | true |
| 16:01.54 | JoshBorke | Cide: i use a single linked list then modify where I attach frames (parents and attachment points) |
| 16:01.54 | Cide | but it still needs :SetPoint |
| 16:02.18 | JoshBorke | but then again i have a nice parent/child relationship in mine :-D |
| 16:02.22 | Cide | hmm |
| 16:02.48 | Cide | well, I "could" use parent/child for the "separate linked lists" part |
| 16:02.53 | Cide | since both accomplish pretty much the same thing |
| 16:03.07 | cogwheel | right, but all you would need to change in the SetPoint would be the offsets |
| 16:03.12 | Cide | it's pretty much function call versus table lookup |
| 16:04.17 | Cide | combined with more function calls for :SetPoint, I guess |
| 16:04.38 | Cide | single linked list with parent/children sounds nice |
| 16:04.40 | Cide | thanks |
| 16:05.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kilkbuln (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:06.31 | cogwheel | Wercome back kilkbuln |
| 16:06.49 | Kilkbuln | :/ |
| 16:08.51 | cogwheel | cide, not to throw another wrench in, but is there any advantage to using a linked list versus an integer-indexed table and using table.insert and table.remove? |
| 16:09.30 | Rallion | is there a way to get...like...a stack trace in WoW? |
| 16:10.04 | Cide | cogwheel: I used a linked list because I can always get a frame |
| 16:10.06 | Cide | err |
| 16:10.11 | Cide | get a frame's neighbours given a frame |
| 16:10.22 | cogwheel | ah |
| 16:10.39 | Cide | s/u// |
| 16:10.58 | cogwheel | hehe... kirkburn understood... :P |
| 16:11.07 | Cide | getting rid of the British! |
| 16:11.23 | Cide | haha, I mostly did that because he's here ;) |
| 16:12.14 | Rallion | I'm getting an error in some code that shouldn't even be running |
| 16:12.43 | cogwheel | compile-time or run-time? |
| 16:13.27 | Rallion | runtime |
| 16:13.49 | Rallion | and it happens when I buy a bank slot, so it's a pain the the ass to test |
| 16:14.01 | Cide | hehe, ouch |
| 16:14.17 | DoomGaze3 | Heh, my mod is crashing WoW. Like, completely. |
| 16:14.17 | Cide | when I implemented our confirmation box for bank slots, I was pretty scared |
| 16:14.30 | Rallion | I use the blizzard confirmation box |
| 16:14.33 | Cide | seeing as I didn't want to spend 100 gold for something I wouldn't use |
| 16:14.42 | Cide | Rallion: they added it after we added ours |
| 16:14.49 | Cide | like, 2-3 patches after |
| 16:14.58 | Rallion | but then I have to detect the purchase and update, which works fine, and this error doesn't even break anything, that code doesn't need to be running |
| 16:15.10 | cogwheel | heh... I know your pain, rallion... you have no idea how much gold i wasted while testing buyemall without remembering to turn it on debug mode |
| 16:15.17 | Rallion | hehehe |
| 16:15.23 | Rallion | here I really have no choice |
| 16:15.30 | Rallion | i have to spend the money |
| 16:15.56 | Rallion | so I made a PTR char |
| 16:17.14 | Rallion | ooh interesting...i was kinda wrong about when it happens. |
| 16:17.41 | wereHamster | why do the game developers always try to make it hard to hook functions even if we all know that they can't make it impossible |
| 16:18.31 | Rallion | that was extremely unexpected. |
| 16:18.40 | Rallion | but it explains some things. |
| 16:18.41 | Cide | try hooking MoveForwardStart and tell me it isn't impossible |
| 16:18.47 | Rallion | wait, no. I'm an idiot. |
| 16:18.50 | Rallion | hehe |
| 16:18.50 | Cide | unless that's what you're testing! |
| 16:19.02 | Cide | and/or found a workaround for |
| 16:19.04 | wereHamster | I'am talking about C functions in external libraries.. |
| 16:20.02 | Cide | how am I supposed to know that? :P |
| 16:20.20 | wereHamster | and in my case it's quake3 but SDL isn't any better.. |
| 16:20.59 | Cide | what about private functions in classes? |
| 16:21.13 | Cide | well |
| 16:21.18 | Cide | you're talking C, nevermind me |
| 16:22.04 | Cide | but.. nevermind |
| 16:23.56 | Rallion | Wooooo!! It works! |
| 16:24.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-55-240.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:24.30 | Rallion | It ALL works! Ecstatic. |
| 16:25.03 | Kilkbuln | coolness |
| 16:25.41 | Legorol | Kilkbuln and I just tested threat from passive rage generation: |
| 16:25.43 | Legorol | there is none |
| 16:25.51 | wereHamster | I'm trying to hook opengl functions... an no, it's not a hack but a perfectly legal application |
| 16:25.51 | Legorol | the rage you get from anger management does not generate threat |
| 16:26.23 | Kilkbuln | (never seen Anger Management, is it *that* bad a film? =) |
| 16:27.06 | wereHamster | Legorol, do you 'get' rage from anger management or do you just don't loose rage? |
| 16:27.32 | Legorol | you actually get rage if you are in combat |
| 16:27.39 | Legorol | people are debating whether it's a bug or not |
| 16:28.00 | wereHamster | from anger management? |
| 16:28.03 | Legorol | yes |
| 16:28.10 | Legorol | get into combat, you get 1 rage per tick |
| 16:28.18 | Legorol | if you just stand there, with no mobs hitting you |
| 16:28.19 | JoshBorke | Cide: so you have a solution? |
| 16:28.37 | Cide | JoshBorke: not sure yet, about to start coding, so we'll see soon! |
| 16:28.42 | Legorol | the best theory i read on why this happens is this: |
| 16:28.48 | Cide | the resorting part still bothers me |
| 16:28.49 | wereHamster | has the talent been changed on PTR? I only see 'rage takes longer to decay' |
| 16:29.18 | Kirkburn | Testing rage generation with a level 2 warlock and a level 60 warrior (right?) is fun :P |
| 16:29.38 | Legorol | There is a natural rate of rage decay. When you are out of combat, this is the only thing that happens. When you are in-combat, there is a natural rate of rage generation. |
| 16:29.54 | Legorol | WIthout anger management, the rage generation rate and rage decay rate, when in combat, matches up perfectly |
| 16:29.59 | Legorol | so that you neither gain nor lose rage |
| 16:30.20 | Legorol | if you have anger management, the rage decay is slower, but the rage generation stays the same |
| 16:30.24 | Legorol | so the end result: you get rage |
| 16:30.49 | Legorol | wereHamster: this is under 1.11 |
| 16:30.53 | Legorol | and the tooltip doesn't mention it |
| 16:31.02 | Legorol | i'm of the opinion that it's not intended |
| 16:32.07 | cogwheel | cide, that's why i was thinking of the integer-indexed table instead of a linked list... table.sort() 4tw! |
| 16:32.07 | wereHamster | thanks for the clarification |
| 16:33.12 | JoshBorke | Cide, yea, like cogwheel says, integer-indexed table with a wrap-around index |
| 16:33.22 | wereHamster | what not intended... the rage generation in combat? |
| 16:33.24 | Cide | table.sort seems unnecessary though |
| 16:34.05 | Cide | if I store health in the frame as an index, I can just iterate up/down (depending on whether the player lost or gained health) and move one frame |
| 16:34.59 | cogwheel | you could combine the two... |
| 16:35.12 | cogwheel | use tables as the elements with previous/next fields |
| 16:35.36 | Cide | don't really see much of a gain from that though |
| 16:35.37 | cogwheel | then sorting would be simple *and* iterating would be simple |
| 16:36.29 | cogwheel | it just makes implementing the sort a lot easier... |
| 16:37.01 | Cide | how so? |
| 16:37.27 | cogwheel | because you can use table.sort and pick from various comparison functions depending on what attribute the list should be sorted by... |
| 16:37.34 | cogwheel | (sorry for the dangling preposition :P) |
| 16:37.36 | Cide | table.sort for every health change is likely slower than a single loop |
| 16:38.23 | Cide | well, all the attributes can be accessed with frame.data[attribute] |
| 16:38.38 | cogwheel | hmm... i think i see what you're saying... you basically just want to swap the two frames when necessary... |
| 16:38.56 | Cide | yes, if possible |
| 16:39.12 | wereHamster | Legorol, the taunt buff, did that happen in 1.11 or will it be in 1.12? |
| 16:39.14 | cogwheel | I wasn't clear on when/how you'd be doing the sorting... |
| 16:40.05 | cogwheel | Are you actually switching the frames themselves around or just the data in them? |
| 16:40.09 | Rallion | what would be a the best way to have my frame replace the bag frames? replace the default bag OnShow with one that shows my frame, and then hides the default bag again? or is there a better way? |
| 16:40.35 | Cide | cogwheel: each member gets one frame assigned to him |
| 16:40.46 | Cide | until the member leaves the raid |
| 16:41.03 | Cide | so if you switch two players, their frames change places, not the data in them |
| 16:41.13 | cogwheel | Ah |
| 16:41.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pyfen (n=Rozr@unaffiliated/fenderx) |
| 16:41.21 | *** part/#wowi-lounge pyfen (n=Rozr@unaffiliated/fenderx) |
| 16:45.08 | JoshBorke | Cide: are you making your roster information global? |
| 16:45.24 | Cide | sure |
| 16:45.30 | Cide | CT_RaidAssist2.memberData[memberName] |
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| 16:50.52 | cogwheel | Cide, how many different sorting options will there be? Each heading could store its own comparison function and then you could just swap frames in a given direction until you get to where you're supposed to be. |
| 16:51.30 | Cide | thinking class, index, mana & health right now (asc or desc) |
| 16:51.52 | cogwheel | index being the raid#? |
| 16:51.56 | Cide | ya |
| 16:52.19 | Cide | so... frame.data[sortIndex] |
| 16:52.29 | JoshBorke | Cide: you should totally make it hookable :-D |
| 16:52.33 | Cide | sortIndex being just that: "class", "index", "mana" or "health" |
| 16:52.38 | Cide | the sort function? :P |
| 16:52.43 | JoshBorke | yea! |
| 16:52.55 | JoshBorke | so say, an addon could track DPS to different raid members and they could be bumped to the top of the list |
| 16:53.09 | Cide | heh |
| 16:53.41 | JoshBorke | :-D |
| 16:53.45 | Cide | for healers, to keep the people who are contributing the most alive? :) |
| 16:54.08 | JoshBorke | =D |
| 16:54.21 | Cide | I kinda want to make sort functions local for faster access though :( |
| 16:54.32 | Cide | shouldn't get called all that often, I suppose |
| 16:54.56 | JoshBorke | what about a table? new functions could register into the table |
| 16:55.04 | JoshBorke | while your default sorts colud be local functions |
| 16:55.10 | cogwheel | Cide, maybe sorting by class/index should be separated logically from sorting by mana/health since they are essentially statick until the groups change |
| 16:55.26 | Cide | well |
| 16:55.43 | Cide | I'll just add something like :UpdateFramePosition |
| 16:55.59 | Cide | and then call that whenever what the user cares about changes |
| 16:56.20 | cogwheel | that would be in the header, then? |
| 16:56.38 | cogwheel | you wouldn't be able to arbitrarily call that on one of the member frames. |
| 16:56.44 | Cide | why not? |
| 16:57.43 | cogwheel | because sorting the entire list (as in the case of index/class) would need knowledge of all the other members in the list |
| 16:57.45 | Cide | though, I wasn't planning on having that as a member function for the frames or headers |
| 16:57.56 | cogwheel | oic. |
| 16:58.05 | Cide | but then again |
| 16:58.18 | cogwheel | if you have an Update() on each frame for health/mana events |
| 16:58.19 | Cide | it doesn't need to sort the whole list |
| 16:58.40 | cogwheel | then you could easily swap them around without calling an Update function each frame |
| 16:59.19 | cogwheel | the index/class/name sorts would need to sort the whole list though. |
| 16:59.26 | Cide | only once |
| 16:59.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:59.32 | cogwheel | exactly |
| 16:59.37 | Cide | when they join the raid |
| 16:59.55 | Cide | so you'd start at the first or last frame, and just iterate through it until it finds its position |
| 17:00.00 | cogwheel | well, really when anyone joins the raid or groups get swapped around |
| 17:00.14 | Cide | well, for index it'd update if the index changes |
| 17:00.23 | Cide | same with health & mana |
| 17:00.30 | Cide | when health/mana changes (duh) |
| 17:02.53 | Kirkburn | Woop, Blood elves now have a correctly named wiki article :P |
| 17:04.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@67.63.84.74) |
| 17:05.43 | JoshBorke | morning Cairenn |
| 17:05.48 | Cairenn | hi |
| 17:08.19 | Kirkburn | hey Cair |
| 17:08.47 | wereHamster | is there already an addon that automatically passes on items from naxx? |
| 17:10.19 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 17:11.23 | wereHamster | I mean those quest items that from almost each trashmob |
| 17:11.32 | TS|Skrom | whew, back finally |
| 17:12.11 | TS|Skrom | Have a question for the table guru's around here if someone has time. |
| 17:12.36 | Legorol | ok that's it, i'm so making this addon: there's a good friend of mine whom i often group with, and he routinely forgets to turn off Aspect of the N00b |
| 17:12.55 | Legorol | so i decided i'll make him an addon that puts a big red warning with audio if he enters combat with the Aspect on |
| 17:14.23 | Cide | TS|Skrom: just ask and someone will answer if he/she knows and has time |
| 17:14.59 | TS|Skrom | I'm kinda embarassed.. because the reason I'm having trouble is most likely because I'm an LUA n00b :( |
| 17:15.17 | Cairenn | everyone was, at one point or another |
| 17:16.02 | TS|Skrom | But here's what I'm doing: I'm scanning the spellbook for a certain type of spell (heal for example) and printing the results to the chat box in the form of Name (Rank) L# to U# where L# is the min amount listed on the tooltip and U# is the max amount listed on the tooltip |
| 17:16.21 | TS|Skrom | I'd like to put this info into a sortable indexed table |
| 17:16.28 | TS|Skrom | but I don't know how... |
| 17:16.41 | TS|Skrom | would need to be a matrix and I'm familar with matrices in general |
| 17:16.56 | TS|Skrom | but not the actual commands for sorting on a key or using a table in that form |
| 17:17.31 | Cide | what do you want to sort by? |
| 17:17.55 | TS|Skrom | Well to take my example further.. |
| 17:18.12 | TS|Skrom | Paladin's have two heal spells, in the spellbook Flash of Light comes before Holy light alpha |
| 17:18.15 | Cide | in any case, I'm guessing you want an integer indiced table where each entry is a spell with the data that belongs to it |
| 17:18.23 | TS|Skrom | so when I iterate through the book to pull the individual data it reads |
| 17:18.32 | TS|Skrom | flash 1,2,3 then holy light 1-7 (for my 47 pally) |
| 17:18.41 | wereHamster | Legorol, what's Aspect of the N00b? |
| 17:18.44 | TS|Skrom | I want to sort byt he min amount healed |
| 17:19.08 | TS|Skrom | which would put the list essentially in the order of HL1, HL2, FL1, HL3, FL2, HL4, FL3, HL5-7 |
| 17:19.26 | Legorol | wereHamster: Aspect of the Pack |
| 17:19.26 | Cide | okay, the easiest way would be... |
| 17:19.29 | TS|Skrom | and I don't know if this would ever happen |
| 17:19.35 | TS|Skrom | but I'm worried that at some point for some class |
| 17:19.39 | Cide | you have a table, each entry is a table with the data you need |
| 17:19.47 | Cide | so, you do, for example |
| 17:19.48 | TS|Skrom | the max heal on one spell would "switch places" with the max heal of another if the ranges overlap |
| 17:19.53 | Cide | mySpellTable = { }; |
| 17:19.58 | Cide | and then in your loop that prints to chat |
| 17:20.30 | Cide | you insert a new table into that table: table.insert(mySpellTable, { spellName, minimumHeal, maximumHeal }) |
| 17:20.49 | Cide | that will put it at the end of the mySpellTable |
| 17:21.46 | Cide | so you will always end up with indices from 1 to n (you can retrieve "n" using table.getn(mySpellTable) if you would need it) |
| 17:22.05 | Cide | (unrelated, you can also set a custom "n" using table.setn(mySpellTable, number)) |
| 17:22.06 | TS|Skrom | okay I follow you up to that point |
| 17:22.20 | Cide | so when you have your mySpellTable filled with data, you need to sort it... |
| 17:22.43 | Cide | you want to create a local function that you can pass into table.sort |
| 17:23.15 | Cide | (since it's not a "simple" table, you have to create your own sort function) |
| 17:23.26 | TS|Skrom | ahh |
| 17:23.27 | Cide | the function will take two arguments, each being the value of two entries that lua wants you to compare and return which one to move "up" towards index 1 |
| 17:23.39 | TS|Skrom | So I wasn't going crazy when I just couldn't get table.sort to work lol |
| 17:24.00 | Cide | so you'll end up with two tables as the arguments passed, since all entries are tables |
| 17:24.09 | Cide | so your sort function could be... |
| 17:24.20 | Cide | local function sortFunction(a, b) return a[2] < b[2]; end |
| 17:24.31 | Cide | since index #2 in the table is the minimum amount healed |
| 17:24.45 | Cide | and then call table.sort: table.sort(mySpellTable, sortFunction); |
| 17:25.24 | zinor | ..wow.. |
| 17:25.26 | Cide | and mySpellTable will be sorted by minimum amount healed (ascending order - mySpellTable[1] will hold the spell with the lowest minimum heal) |
| 17:25.38 | zinor | http://www.whoresofwarcraft.com/ - might not be work safe, but its not bad, but that's just.. going to far |
| 17:26.07 | TS|Skrom | Cide, I follow what you mean, but i don't see in the function above wher eyou actually told them to compare and change places |
| 17:26.13 | TS|Skrom | could you go over that function for me? |
| 17:26.51 | Cide | TS|Skrom: if you return a value that evaluates to true (so any value except nil or false), the first argument (in our case, "a") will be shifted towards the top (index #1) of the table |
| 17:26.53 | TS|Skrom | maybe it's an extension of table.sort that I'm not getting |
| 17:27.18 | TS|Skrom | okay, and it shifts the entire set not just the min healed? |
| 17:27.31 | Cide | it shifts the entire record, which is the whole table |
| 17:27.32 | TS|Skrom | the entire row, not just the [2] |
| 17:27.36 | TS|Skrom | ahhhh |
| 17:27.40 | TS|Skrom | I see now |
| 17:27.51 | TS|Skrom | that's why you encapsulate it in a table |
| 17:28.03 | TS|Skrom | each record I mean |
| 17:28.07 | Cide | lua basically calls sortFunction({ "Flash of Light 1", 273, 300 }, { "Holy Light 5", 1000, 1300 }) |
| 17:28.20 | TS|Skrom | but only compares the second cell of each table |
| 17:28.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kilkbuln (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 17:28.31 | Cide | (except it uses the reference instead of creating a new table, but you get the point) |
| 17:28.35 | TS|Skrom | I could sort the max heal by calling a[3] < b[3] |
| 17:28.36 | Cide | yup |
| 17:28.45 | TS|Skrom | okay that makes alot more sense then |
| 17:28.51 | Cide | or, descending order: a[3] > a[3] |
| 17:28.59 | TS|Skrom | see I knew it was just a matter of me not understanding table.sort lol |
| 17:29.02 | TS|Skrom | thanks |
| 17:29.10 | TS|Skrom | and I gathered from inference that you do the work on CT? |
| 17:29.15 | Cide | yep |
| 17:29.18 | TS|Skrom | My props |
| 17:29.24 | TS|Skrom | er many props |
| 17:29.43 | Cide | :) |
| 17:29.50 | TS|Skrom | I love the profile site too |
| 17:30.22 | Cide | cool, glad you like it :) |
| 17:30.24 | cogwheel | are buffs always numbered 1-16 and debuffs 17+? |
| 17:30.31 | cogwheel | (on the player) |
| 17:31.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com) |
| 17:32.13 | JoshBorke | CT SUCKS! |
| 17:32.15 | JoshBorke | :-P |
| 17:32.26 | JoshBorke | Cide: did you ever implement the in-game profiles for CT-Profiles? |
| 17:35.40 | Cide | not yet, no |
| 17:35.57 | Cide | cogwheel: don't think so |
| 17:36.42 | Cide | Weakened Soul had #3 when I had 2 buffs and 1 debuff, just tested |
| 17:36.52 | cogwheel | k |
| 17:37.12 | Cide | seems to be in order of gain |
| 17:37.27 | cogwheel | makes sense |
| 17:40.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-56-198.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:45.17 | Shadowed | Cide: What do you guys program ctmod/ctprofile in anyway? |
| 17:45.45 | Cide | the sites? |
| 17:45.59 | Shadowed | yeah |
| 17:46.09 | Cide | php/mysql mainly.. with some javascript (UGH...) |
| 17:46.18 | Cide | well, a LOT of javascript for ctprofiles |
| 17:46.57 | TS|Skrom | i h8 on javascript >< |
| 17:47.07 | TS|Skrom | <3 php though |
| 17:47.22 | cogwheel | I programmed my website's signup page in Lua :P |
| 17:50.37 | TS|Skrom | FYI the elf on www.whoresofwarcraft.com can OVERPOWER my attempts at EVASION and EXPOSE my ARMOR any day of the week |
| 17:50.44 | TS|Skrom | er... |
| 17:50.46 | TS|Skrom | >.> |
| 17:50.49 | TS|Skrom | <.< |
| 17:50.50 | Cairenn | ... |
| 17:51.06 | TS|Skrom | sorry, that kinda slipped out |
| 17:51.09 | Shadowed | Run TS run |
| 17:51.34 | Shadowed | Obviously the armor is faked anyway, as it covers up more then the in-game one does |
| 17:51.44 | TS|Skrom | haha |
| 17:52.03 | Beladona | hold on. I am gonna create an addon devoted specifically to smacking TS|Skrom |
| 17:52.10 | Beladona | brb |
| 17:52.13 | Shadowed | haha |
| 17:52.19 | TS|Skrom | awww :sadpanda: |
| 17:52.36 | Shadowed | you could just use the ~sigh command! |
| 17:52.47 | TS|Skrom | ~sigh |
| 17:52.49 | purl | *sigh* |
| 17:52.50 | TS|Skrom | :P |
| 17:53.16 | TS|Skrom | bela, you'd have to catch me first /flee |
| 17:53.31 | Cide | ~slap TS|Skrom |
| 17:53.32 | purl | ACTION slaps TS|Skrom, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 17:53.46 | TS|Skrom | ~CastSpellByName(Aspect of the Run Away); |
| 17:55.18 | Shadowed | Is he always like this Cide? |
| 17:56.00 | TS|Skrom | Cide: No he's generally a very kind and caring person who would never harm a fly and respects women. |
| 17:56.23 | Kilkbuln | And now I just realised who you are :P *That* TS :) |
| 17:56.37 | TS|Skrom | o.O |
| 17:56.38 | TS|Skrom | EH? |
| 17:56.39 | Cide | haha |
| 17:56.45 | Cide | he's not the guy who works on ctmod with me |
| 17:56.48 | Cide | as far as I know, anyway |
| 17:56.53 | TS|Skrom | Nope |
| 17:57.00 | Kilkbuln | I just thought Cide had made up an alter ego to make it look like there was more than one person working on CT :P |
| 17:57.03 | Shadowed | Couldn't figure out if he was or not :( |
| 17:57.03 | TS|Skrom | I'm not worthy /bow I'm not worthy /bow |
| 17:57.11 | Kilkbuln | oh lol |
| 17:57.34 | Kilkbuln | Well there goes that theory |
| 17:57.36 | Kilkbuln | *boom* |
| 17:57.39 | TS|Skrom | TS is mah guild name on my server ;-) |
| 17:57.52 | Beladona | TS has a guild named after him? |
| 17:58.05 | TS|Skrom | we are big fans |
| 17:58.07 | Shadowed | my guild has two fan guilds |
| 17:58.13 | TS|Skrom | no it stands for "The Saxons" |
| 17:58.23 | Beladona | I bet you paint his face on your chest, and have drunken brawls every friday |
| 17:58.24 | TS|Skrom | we applied for "The Sexy Ones" but we had a typo :( |
| 17:58.39 | Kilkbuln | Quite a major typo, it seems |
| 17:58.45 | TS|Skrom | yeah :( |
| 17:58.49 | Kilkbuln | You seem to have missed out all the letters |
| 17:58.59 | Beladona | I had a problem making a guild once |
| 17:59.04 | TS|Skrom | apparently the GM for our server is blind *shrug* |
| 17:59.07 | TS|Skrom | what are you going to do |
| 17:59.18 | Beladona | till I realized there is some stupid bug that prevents you from registering your charter, unless it is in your backpack |
| 17:59.32 | Beladona | not any other bag |
| 17:59.41 | Kilkbuln | tis true |
| 17:59.42 | TS|Skrom | funny story, my ex-wife had that same problem |
| 17:59.48 | TS|Skrom | ... wait you aren't her are you? |
| 17:59.58 | TS|Skrom | nah, she's too dumb to work irc |
| 18:00.00 | Beladona | they never fixed that, and I wonder if they ever will |
| 18:00.28 | Kilkbuln | Beladona isn't a bella donna :P |
| 18:00.39 | Kilkbuln | Whatever he may lead you to believe =) |
| 18:00.44 | TS|Skrom | Well that's quite misleading |
| 18:00.52 | TS|Skrom | Ignore that a/s/l pm I sent you thn |
| 18:01.12 | Kilkbuln | 13/unknown/mars, I bet ;) |
| 18:01.43 | Kilkbuln | ah, no, that's mine. I always get that wrong ... |
| 18:02.31 | Kilkbuln | So, er, 1.12 tomorrow? :) |
| 18:02.32 | Cide | hmm. |
| 18:02.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 18:02.48 | Cide | /dump CT_RaidAssist2.memberData.Swede.frame:GetPoint(1) -> BOOM |
| 18:02.58 | Shadowed | well, cair took the title out, so not sure |
| 18:03.09 | Kilkbuln | The swedes, they always ruin everything =) |
| 18:03.16 | Cide | that would be me :P |
| 18:03.21 | Kilkbuln | see! |
| 18:06.26 | Cide | shhh |
| 18:07.23 | Kilkbuln | Amazing website: see websites as a colour blind person might! http://colorfilter.wickline.org |
| 18:09.07 | Cide | hey, ctprofiles.net gets a new color scheme with that website |
| 18:09.09 | Cide | looks pretty cool! |
| 18:09.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge phyber (i=phyber@irssi.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:09.31 | Kilkbuln | heh |
| 18:10.01 | Kilkbuln | I was just checking my agriturismi website with it - I get a lovely pink scheme with tritanopia |
| 18:15.14 | Cide | damnit |
| 18:15.30 | Cide | what's the lua equivalent of.. <Anchor point="TOP" relativePoint="BOTTOM"/> |
| 18:16.35 | cogwheel | frame:SetPoint("TOP", frame:GetParent(), "BOTTOM") |
| 18:17.00 | Cide | then I'd have to re-set that every time it changes parent |
| 18:17.35 | cogwheel | hmmm.... |
| 18:31.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mery (i=metelman@p54AEEC44.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:34.19 | Rallion | kirkburn, that's pretty cool |
| 18:34.23 | Rallion | er....kilkbuln... |
| 18:34.43 | Kilkbuln | heh |
| 18:35.01 | Cairenn | thank you |
| 18:35.32 | Kirkburn | One day the router will stop crashing :P |
| 18:35.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-188-190.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:35.46 | Industrial | Question: If I nil a table will the contents will be garbage collected? |
| 18:36.11 | Kirov | Eventually |
| 18:36.22 | Industrial | How do you mean eventually? |
| 18:36.24 | Kirov | And assuming it isn't being referenced someplace. |
| 18:36.28 | TS|Skrom | as long as nothing else references it |
| 18:36.32 | Industrial | ah ok |
| 18:36.37 | Industrial | hmm |
| 18:36.39 | Industrial | thanks |
| 18:36.42 | TS|Skrom | it won't be GC'd til the GC threshold is met |
| 18:36.47 | Industrial | yeah |
| 18:36.48 | TS|Skrom | that's what "eventually" means |
| 18:37.37 | Industrial | I just have some tables I need for my addon that ill construct and nil out when I enable and disable the addon |
| 18:37.52 | TS|Skrom | http://www.google.com/search?q=lua+weak+tables |
| 18:38.52 | Cide | I seriously can't find an equivalent of <Anchor point="TOP" relativePoint="BOTTOM"/> unless I'm doing something wrong |
| 18:39.13 | Kirov | Industrial - if you want to completely destroy a table with out waiting for it to be gced, you can iterate through it and nil out all the values. |
| 18:39.21 | Cide | I tried :SetPoint("TOP", nil, "BOTTOM") :SetParent(parent) but the frame isn't even showing up |
| 18:39.23 | Industrial | Kirov, yeah I was thinking about that |
| 18:39.31 | Rallion | you know...if eating Taco Bell kills me, at least I'll die happy. |
| 18:39.49 | TS|Skrom | What's the big deal about waiting for a GC Industrial? |
| 18:39.54 | wereHamster | :SetPoint("TOP", nil, ...) doesn't make sense |
| 18:40.10 | TS|Skrom | You are still doing your part as a dev to make sure you aren't wasting mem |
| 18:40.10 | Industrial | TS|Skrom, its not, i just want it to be gced |
| 18:40.18 | Cide | wereHamster: why not? |
| 18:40.26 | TS|Skrom | read about weak tables and make sure you aren't leaving a reference |
| 18:40.35 | TS|Skrom | that's all ya gotta do :) |
| 18:40.42 | cogwheel | Cide, the XML parser provides the parent argument to SetPoint (or its internal equivalent) based on the document tree |
| 18:40.45 | Kirov | SetPoint is evil, I've noticed. using nil as the reference seems to cuase it to faul. |
| 18:40.45 | Industrial | yeap read it |
| 18:40.47 | wereHamster | you position it relative to no frame, how is WoW supposed to know where to position the frame? |
| 18:41.13 | Industrial | wereHamster, doesnt it take UIParent? |
| 18:41.29 | cogwheel | industrial, yes, but you have to tell it to use UIParent |
| 18:41.35 | cogwheel | nil doesn't work |
| 18:41.55 | Cide | actually, nil is supposed to work |
| 18:41.58 | Kirov | Cide - GetPoint("TOP") then plug the second return in |
| 18:42.06 | Kirov | Cide - supposed to, but doesn't. |
| 18:42.17 | Cide | The name of the frame to attach the obj to - an actual frame variable can also be used (can be "UIParent"), or nil to anchor relative to the whole screen. |
| 18:42.17 | Cide | Defaults to the parent of obj when not specified, or the screen (not UIParent) when obj does not have a parent |
| 18:42.24 | Cide | well that kinda sucks |
| 18:42.28 | cogwheel | hmm... bug report time? |
| 18:42.31 | cogwheel | :\ |
| 18:42.43 | Cide | I'll just keep doing what I currently am |
| 18:42.51 | wereHamster | Code, why don't you ant to specify the relative frame? |
| 18:43.05 | Kirov | Code? heh |
| 18:43.14 | Cide | second misspelling of my name today! |
| 18:43.14 | cogwheel | it was my bad... |
| 18:43.31 | Kirov | wereHamster - less code, presumably faster |
| 18:43.33 | wereHamster | Tanking adds in naxx and chatting in IRC at the same time kinda is hard |
| 18:44.05 | Cide | what Kirov (damn you, tab completion) said |
| 18:44.27 | Kirov | lol |
| 18:44.47 | Beladona | I wonder if the guy who made GroupCalendar has plans to use the new Addon Message system |
| 18:45.29 | Kirov | I'm fairly curious how many addons are going to switch over to it. |
| 18:45.50 | Rallion | hey, so what are people's complaints with the Blizz Floating Combat Text? i tried it out and it seemed pretty good to me, but I didn't really test too extensively |
| 18:46.21 | Rallion | i KNOW I saw people saying they didn't like it, but I didn't see why |
| 18:46.27 | Rallion | or don't remember |
| 18:47.27 | wereHamster | Kirov, my addons will use it.. ;) |
| 18:47.38 | Cide | so will mine! |
| 18:48.23 | Kirov | Mine already do! |
| 18:48.32 | Beladona | Rallion I think it works as well, if not slightly better than SCT did |
| 18:48.40 | Kirov | I even register my frames for the event in 1.11! |
| 18:49.02 | Shadowed | I don't really like the floating combat text at all |
| 18:49.04 | Kirov | wereHamster - I'm personally thinking more about the people who aren't in this channel |
| 18:49.16 | Shadowed | alot of the text they use for the events isn't really short and simple |
| 18:49.16 | Kirov | There's also the problem of DamageMeters ... in that the author quit wow |
| 18:49.23 | Shadowed | Use SWStats |
| 18:49.45 | Beladona | no one picked up DamageMeters yet? |
| 18:49.58 | Kirov | Beladona - not that I've seen. |
| 18:50.01 | Kirov | Not yet at least. |
| 18:50.18 | Beladona | wonder if I should or not |
| 18:50.29 | Beladona | reason i say is, I already modified it pretty deeply |
| 18:50.32 | Beladona | hehe |
| 18:50.37 | Kirov | heh |
| 18:50.41 | Kirov | like what? |
| 18:51.14 | Rallion | I don't like SWStats, it's not as good as DM or Recap for looking at in-depth self stats |
| 18:51.23 | Beladona | mostly looks, and functionality. And I began adding some other stats to it like xp over time and stuff. But I recently started messing with dps synchronization using the addon message stuff in 1.12 |
| 18:51.56 | Rallion | SWStats IS a good addon, but it's not what everybody's looking for |
| 18:52.07 | Cide | it spams the shit out of the channel |
| 18:52.28 | Rallion | i know nothing of that, heh |
| 18:52.31 | Beladona | Damage Meters does everything it does, the way I want it to. I just tweaked mine to do more |
| 18:54.11 | Kirov | SWStats / ThreatMeter ... both mods that spam to no end. |
| 18:54.35 | Beladona | I absolutely hates ThreatMeter |
| 18:55.23 | wereHamster | KLTM? |
| 18:55.51 | Kirov | For debugging CTRA or mods that use that channel I have it setup to cull all the threatmeter spam so I can see the other stuff. |
| 18:56.31 | Kirov | I'm impressed that someone managed to do it, and that it's decently accurate, but I really don't like it. |
| 18:56.41 | Shadowed | I just hate KLTM because of the idea |
| 18:57.10 | Beladona | a) it requires all participants to have it. Which pretty much negates most of it's usefullness |
| 18:57.46 | Rallion | that's pretty much unavoidable though |
| 18:57.59 | Beladona | b) do we really want to dummy down threat management? when people should be learning it without relying on a meter? |
| 18:58.07 | Beladona | oh I know that Rallion |
| 18:58.11 | Rallion | i know you know :) |
| 18:58.12 | Kirov | CTRA is the only addon I require people to have, and even then if they used CTRASpy or oRA I'd be just as happy. |
| 18:58.17 | Beladona | pretty sure Blizz wanted it that way in fact |
| 18:58.51 | Rallion | threat management certainly seems to be one of the core 'skil' aspects of the game |
| 18:59.01 | Beladona | we require Group Calendar as well. But thats just because I am too lazy to repeat myself all the time regarding what we are doing "tonight" |
| 18:59.32 | Kirov | We just use our forums for that |
| 18:59.57 | Beladona | the problem with that is, you have lots of people who play, and never bother with a website |
| 19:00.08 | Cide | that depends on someone else being on that can give you the latest data, right? |
| 19:00.14 | Industrial | Beladona, make it their problem |
| 19:00.15 | wereHamster | Beladona, why don't you use the GMOTD? |
| 19:00.15 | Beladona | at least with this, its in-game, and they have no excuse |
| 19:00.34 | Beladona | because we run multiple raids a night, and that would get old changing it all the time |
| 19:00.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-1-145.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:01.01 | TS|Skrom | Cide, can I ask you something else? |
| 19:01.06 | Beladona | Cide: yes, although we typicaly always have people on |
| 19:01.11 | TS|Skrom | and it may be that I'm just not thinking it through all the way... |
| 19:01.37 | wereHamster | we sometimes also run multimple raids, but "18:30 naxx, 14:00 ZG, 32:00 AQ40" fits into the GMOTD.. |
| 19:01.38 | TS|Skrom | in our talk earlier... what happens if spell1 is 105 spell 2 is 205 and spell3 is 155? |
| 19:01.56 | TS|Skrom | 105 < 205 = #1 |
| 19:02.01 | Beladona | wereHamster: there are other aspects I like though, for isntance signups |
| 19:02.06 | TS|Skrom | 155<205... does 155 become #1? |
| 19:02.36 | Industrial | -s |
| 19:02.48 | Skrom | lol |
| 19:02.51 | Industrial | Kirov, ??? |
| 19:03.06 | Kirov | Industrial - TS as in CTmod non-Cide |
| 19:03.12 | Beladona | Industrial: I believe he refers to the existence of TS of CTMod |
| 19:03.19 | Industrial | oh |
| 19:03.37 | Cide | Skrom: it compares them all to each other |
| 19:03.41 | Cairenn | Cide + TS == CT |
| 19:03.43 | Cairenn | :p |
| 19:04.02 | Skrom | so when it says "it moves the index toward 1" it only moves it one spot then recompares? |
| 19:04.02 | Cide | Skrom: so you end up with the correct order in the end |
| 19:04.25 | Kirov | I thought CT stood for Cow Tunnel |
| 19:04.28 | Skrom | so I just call table.sort(mySpellData, mySortFunction) once after the table is built |
| 19:04.29 | Cide | something like that |
| 19:04.35 | Cide | Skrom: correct |
| 19:05.07 | Skrom | for some reason I was thinking i'd have to call it repeatedly >< |
| 19:05.13 | Cide | Kirov: Carpal Tunnel :) |
| 19:05.31 | Skrom | I need to get out more, meet a nice girl somewhere, get remarried and stop trying to learn all this coding stuff lol |
| 19:05.39 | Cide | lies. |
| 19:05.43 | Skrom | yeah... |
| 19:05.54 | Skrom | specially since I'm getting ready to start back at college for a programming degree >< |
| 19:06.07 | Kirov | Skrom - what are you going to use to impress her if not your impressive addon skills? |
| 19:06.09 | Skrom | I quit the first time to get married to that bitch, I mean my ex wife |
| 19:06.21 | Skrom | Kirov: Good point |
| 19:06.25 | Cide | actually |
| 19:06.34 | Skrom | kirov: I HAVE A LEVEL 60 !!!! OH EM GEE |
| 19:06.39 | Cide | TS managed to get free cable TV because the maintenance guy that came by plays WoW |
| 19:06.47 | Skrom | haw |
| 19:06.57 | Skrom | Actually I don't have a level 60 >< |
| 19:06.59 | Kirov | Skrom - "What's that baby? You need an addon to help you decurse? Well, I have this addon called "Decursive" ... yeah, I wrote it all myself." |
| 19:07.01 | Skrom | man I'm screwed |
| 19:07.24 | Skrom | She wouldn't need to decurse after being with me, I use protection |
| 19:07.42 | Kirov | Cide - hehe |
| 19:07.56 | Cide | I had an argument a week ago with a friend of a friend - apparently the authors of CTMod are all american |
| 19:07.59 | Cide | I laughed |
| 19:08.11 | Skrom | he didn't know? |
| 19:08.29 | Skrom | some friend of a friend |
| 19:08.35 | Cide | I'm pretty sure everyone assumes we're both american |
| 19:08.59 | Skrom | hey, can you send me some of that good cheese for my birthday? |
| 19:09.10 | Kirov | Cide - I assume you both speak english ... |
| 19:09.23 | Skrom | oh wait, swede ~= swiss... |
| 19:09.24 | Cide | DAMN YOU, TAB COMPLETION |
| 19:09.26 | Kirov | but then, i've typed to both of you |
| 19:09.37 | Cide | Kirov: hopefully we do! |
| 19:09.49 | Skrom | what are you Cide GMT+1? |
| 19:09.59 | Cide | yup |
| 19:10.11 | Skrom | so it's... 9:00 pm there |
| 19:10.15 | Cide | 9:10! |
| 19:10.18 | Skrom | well yeah |
| 19:10.19 | Cide | get your facts straight! |
| 19:10.30 | Rallion | i wonder if all my typing is keeping my jammed finger from healing all the way...because it's been a while... |
| 19:11.51 | Rallion | Remember: All that so-called 'hand-eye coordination' from playing video games does not always translate well to trying to catch a football. |
| 19:11.54 | Skrom | I was working at my house on saturday and dropped a 40lb (18.14kg for you non americans) metal grate on my foot |
| 19:12.10 | Skrom | hurts like crap |
| 19:12.20 | Skrom | and I just accidently slammed it on the leg of my desk >< |
| 19:12.41 | Skrom | excuse me while I go cry like a pansie |
| 19:12.50 | Rallion | was it a grate size / shoe coverage type combination that made it hurt more than, say, just a solid metal plate would? |
| 19:13.06 | Skrom | yeah... pretty thin shoes |
| 19:13.09 | Rallion | ugh |
| 19:13.24 | Rallion | that sounds painful |
| 19:13.28 | Skrom | it hit about halfway between ankle and where the toes start |
| 19:13.37 | Rallion | big ouchies there |
| 19:13.49 | Rallion | tendons and such |
| 19:13.55 | Skrom | right across the top too so it affected multiple bones/areas |
| 19:14.08 | Rallion | that'll definitely hurt for a while |
| 19:14.44 | Skrom | I have a big problem with hurting myself when I'm working though.. >< |
| 19:14.49 | Skrom | I'm not clumsy it just seems that way |
| 19:15.01 | Skrom | stepping on nails, banging my arms on stuff, etc |
| 19:15.14 | Rallion | I seem to be accumulating some pretty persistant injuries...this finger's been a week and a half, and it looks fine but the joints still hurt a lot...then about THREE WEEKS ago I slammed/scraped my leg right below the knee on a low shelf, still hurts like hell to touch it |
| 19:15.30 | Rallion | three weeks! I'm starting to get a little worried |
| 19:15.38 | Skrom | heh, I hear ya |
| 19:15.46 | Rallion | I just AM clumsy |
| 19:15.50 | Skrom | for some reason in the last 9 months I've been bruising easily on my arms |
| 19:16.01 | Skrom | like hits that would never leave a mark before cause these gigantic painful welts |
| 19:16.05 | Rallion | four out of five times I go into my computer I come out bleeding |
| 19:16.23 | Skrom | got so bad I actually asked my doctor about it and he took some blood lol, havn't heard back on that one yet |
| 19:16.23 | Rallion | welts? like, swollen? |
| 19:16.32 | Skrom | yep, swolen purple bruises |
| 19:17.08 | Rallion | my girlfriend's like that, i suggested she limit herself to a narrowe selection of painkillers |
| 19:17.21 | Shadowed | Anyone remember if Paladins can cure poisons? |
| 19:17.26 | Rallion | yeah they can |
| 19:17.33 | Cide | everything but curses |
| 19:17.33 | Rallion | all but curses, i think |
| 19:17.35 | Kirov | Shadowed - everything but curses |
| 19:17.38 | Cide | I WIN? |
| 19:17.38 | Shadowed | kk |
| 19:17.41 | Kirov | damn, me slow |
| 19:17.51 | Cide | now to try to get some coding done... damn you all! |
| 19:17.51 | Rallion | my first 60 was a paladin, I should have been much more confident in that answer |
| 19:18.12 | Rallion | the nice thing about that though is that it's just one spell, no thinking required |
| 19:18.14 | Rallion | woo |
| 19:18.30 | Shadowed | Cide you were slow by about 7 seconds |
| 19:18.47 | Cide | my answer was infinitely more precise than Rallion's initial answer! |
| 19:18.59 | Rallion | I wish I had 2mbps up... |
| 19:19.10 | Rallion | pshhh, it was maybe 3x more precise |
| 19:19.12 | Shadowed | His answer answered the question, so technically you just added a bunch of random stuff to yours! |
| 19:19.19 | Skrom | lol |
| 19:19.20 | Rallion | or 4x |
| 19:19.23 | Skrom | sounds like an addon |
| 19:19.26 | DoomGaze3 | :D |
| 19:19.30 | Skrom | It works, then you added a bunch of stuff |
| 19:19.35 | Rallion | ol |
| 19:19.36 | Rallion | lol |
| 19:19.48 | Rallion | I get about 35KBps up, it sucks. |
| 19:19.52 | Skrom | that's like the very definition of ctmod |
| 19:20.11 | Rallion | I can easily hit about 4mbit down though |
| 19:20.44 | Rallion | (it's fun to randomly switch between bytes and bits, like I just did there.) |
| 19:20.44 | Skrom | I've got duo t1's here |
| 19:22.10 | Hexarobi | the lil cafeteria area in my schools engineering building is called Bits & Bites |
| 19:22.41 | Rallion | If I need to send a 25MB file to one of my friends, it's faster to put it on a thumb drive and run it over, but I can get a 1GB file downloaded in a couple hours. |
| 19:22.50 | Rallion | damn artificial limiting... |
| 19:23.28 | Rallion | Hex, I'm not sure whether or not I think they should have spelled it "Bytes" |
| 19:24.03 | Skrom | Definately Bites |
| 19:24.11 | Skrom | that way you know it's a net cafe and not a tech shop |
| 19:24.21 | Skrom | you can in fact get a ham n cheese while you surf |
| 19:25.36 | Skrom | The song "Please don't let me be misunderstood" would be such a great song to go on a pvp video if it just didn't have words |
| 19:25.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-170.handshake.de) |
| 19:25.47 | Skrom | er that song... from the Kill Bill soundtrack |
| 19:27.46 | Hexarobi | thats the name of it |
| 19:27.53 | Hexarobi | but it deosnt get good until like 6 mins into it |
| 19:27.59 | Hexarobi | when the 70s guitar starts |
| 19:30.59 | Skrom | I just tested my net connection at 2327 / 176 |
| 19:31.22 | Skrom | I like it the whole way through myself, nice mix of styles |
| 19:31.30 | Skrom | it's got a nice funk feel to it |
| 19:32.41 | Hexarobi | its only funky for like 45 seconds after 6 mins, imo |
| 19:32.54 | Hexarobi | the part he used in kill bill is the good part |
| 19:33.12 | Hexarobi | i forget what makes it funky, but its one instrument that only shows up for that part of the song |
| 19:33.48 | Skrom | the whole guitar with horns thing is what throws me off |
| 19:33.58 | Hexarobi | np: Santa Esmeralda - Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood "Kill Bill Vol. 1 Soundtrack" |
| 19:33.59 | Skrom | makes me think of a disco without being uncool |
| 19:34.20 | Skrom | it definately fit that movie no doubt |
| 19:34.34 | Hexarobi | ya |
| 19:34.56 | Hexarobi | tarantino understands the importance of music |
| 19:35.00 | Rallion | that he does |
| 19:35.44 | Rallion | The music makes the part where he tortures the cop my favorite part of Resivoir Dogs |
| 19:36.05 | Skrom | sick bastard :p |
| 19:36.35 | Skrom | hrm... I wonder if I should go get lunch before it gets too late in the day |
| 19:36.59 | Rallion | I have a habit of thinking, "I'll get food later" and then I hit a point where I can hardly walk |
| 19:37.10 | Rallion | so I'd suggest you do |
| 19:38.00 | Skrom | hehe I have those days |
| 19:38.10 | Skrom | I'm a network admin so it's always I'll wait a little bit longer... |
| 19:38.22 | Skrom | then all o fthe sudden I get some kind of crisis and whoops, there goes the afternoon |
| 19:38.49 | Skrom | I'm the only one in our IT department too so it's not like I had hand it off to anyone |
| 19:39.06 | Mikk | Advise from someone who's been there: Unless it's a REAL crisis, go get your damn lunch. Ending up in involuntary recovery from sysadmining sucks. |
| 19:39.27 | Skrom | lol |
| 19:39.31 | Mikk | No lol about it >.< |
| 19:39.47 | Skrom | I've had two weeks in a row now where I've had a 29 hour day (8:00 am to 12 noon the next day) |
| 19:39.50 | Skrom | trying to avoid that this week |
| 19:40.04 | Mikk | You're 20something, right? |
| 19:40.09 | Skrom | yep |
| 19:40.29 | Mikk | Keeping up that way can work throughout the 20s, but you're wearing yourself down. |
| 19:40.31 | Mikk | Really. |
| 19:40.47 | MentalPower | the forums are down |
| 19:41.06 | Mikk | I used to be the nutter doing 100-hour weeks. It was lots of fun to brag about it. |
| 19:41.51 | Mikk | Ending up not being able to work for a year, with medication to bring stress levels down and keep my stomach in one piece ..... basically not being able to use your brain the way you're used to .... not so fun. |
| 19:42.02 | Skrom | I'm hoping to be out of this stage soon of long weeks |
| 19:42.16 | Skrom | part of the longness is work #1 the other part is 10-20 hours a week on my house |
| 19:42.34 | Skrom | but I'm going back to school soon too... |
| 19:43.01 | Skrom | ah well, everyone always says "*sigh* to be 18 again" |
| 19:43.13 | Skrom | I get to be 18 with the body of a 25 year old heh |
| 19:43.22 | Skrom | cruel fate >< lol |
| 19:44.13 | Mikk | Well.. I'll tell you this: If you ever start having problems sleeping: Hit the breaks. Fast. Not next month or even next week. Fast. You're a few months max away from taking a very deep dive. |
| 19:44.38 | Skrom | Oh I already have trouble sleeping, but that's from the anti depressants ;) |
| 19:44.47 | Mikk | Dude |
| 19:45.02 | Mikk | Slow down |
| 19:45.26 | Skrom | heh, well you don't know the whole situation |
| 19:45.45 | Mikk | Probably not. But you don't know what you're getting yourself into, either. |
| 19:46.05 | Skrom | I'm on the pills because of my wife leaving me. I work long hours sometimes because it beats going back to my parents house to sleep in the basement, but overall I'm doing okay, I got some good friends who I hang out with and a great family who supports me |
| 19:46.42 | Skrom | I mean obviously I'm not working too hard today if I'm just sitting on irc lol |
| 19:46.46 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 19:46.57 | Skrom | my biggest problem atm is trying to figure out why my email isn't being received to my hotmail account |
| 19:47.10 | Mikk | i can answer that one for you |
| 19:47.13 | Mikk | you need to switch to gmail =) |
| 19:47.18 | Skrom | if I can't get that to work I won't be able to fidget with my addon when I get home unless I can memorize my entire conversation with cide earlier |
| 19:47.32 | Skrom | oh snap, why didn't I think of that? I could just send it to my gmail account >< |
| 19:47.36 | Cairenn | depends on when you get home ... |
| 19:47.39 | Skrom | I use hotmail because I forget to check gmail lol |
| 19:47.59 | Skrom | and msn messenger tells me when I have new messages :p |
| 19:48.17 | Cairenn | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowi-lounge/ |
| 19:48.46 | Skrom | oh how cool lol |
| 19:48.47 | Cairenn | so if you don't work on it until "tomorrow", the conversation will show up by then |
| 19:49.06 | Skrom | hehe |
| 19:50.16 | Skrom | okay gmail received it just fine, must be a hotmail problem |
| 19:50.41 | Skrom | wonder if it's down overall... sucks because I was expecting an email today from a friend and that's the only address she has for me >< |
| 19:51.40 | zenzelezz | one less friend to worry about! |
| 19:52.03 | Skrom | doh! |
| 19:53.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge joyjey (n=joejey@ti211110a081-0726.bb.online.no) |
| 19:54.04 | joyjey | Is it possible to set clipping on a texture? f.eks: I only wanna see a little part of the texture |
| 19:54.18 | Hexarobi | textexcoord() |
| 19:54.19 | cogwheel | SetTexCoord |
| 19:54.24 | Hexarobi | err set |
| 19:54.35 | joyjey | ah ok, cheers :)) |
| 19:56.33 | Skrom | wuwu second call on my apartment.. |
| 19:56.42 | Skrom | this guy didn't want to actually see it though >< |
| 19:56.58 | Skrom | adn the first just wanted to know if it was a 2 bedroom (it's not) |
| 19:57.14 | Skrom | one of these days I'll get a renter |
| 20:02.01 | Kirkburn | Oooh, look at this: https://forums.wow-europe.com/expansion/ |
| 20:02.18 | Kirkburn | It's the sign-up page for the BC beta :P |
| 20:02.33 | Kirkburn | (or alpha, as it seems) |
| 20:02.55 | JoshBorke | when do they want to release BC? |
| 20:03.21 | Kirkburn | The second page says you needed an account as of August 14th ... I'm guessing very very soon |
| 20:03.27 | Kirkburn | The beta, anyway |
| 20:03.35 | Kirkburn | The release date is 'Q4 2006' |
| 20:05.09 | Kirkburn | (which means oct-dec 2006, not the fiscal year) |
| 20:06.59 | zenzelezz | when is the discal Q4? |
| 20:07.07 | Kirkburn | A bit later, I think |
| 20:08.24 | Shadowed | Kirkburn: your link made IE7 cry |
| 20:08.43 | Kirkburn | Well just accept the certificate then :P |
| 20:08.50 | Shadowed | still made it cry :p |
| 20:09.00 | Kirkburn | Thundgot has said it's not a spoof or anything :) |
| 20:09.09 | Kirkburn | Pink tears of warniness :P |
| 20:09.09 | Shadowed | I don't believe you! |
| 20:09.24 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 20:09.30 | Kirkburn | well, er ... http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general-en/1220691.htm then! |
| 20:09.45 | Shadowed | bah, 18 and above |
| 20:10.05 | Kirkburn | It's how he signed up for the alpha it seems |
| 20:10.44 | Skrom|mmmtacos | gone now |
| 20:10.56 | Skrom|mmmtacos | https://forums.wow-europe.com/expansion/ isn't coming up, file not found |
| 20:11.11 | Kirkburn | You're right :O |
| 20:11.20 | Kirkburn | They acted fast :P |
| 20:11.45 | Rallion | when the hell are they going to switch over to the new forums? |
| 20:11.54 | Shadowed | I wonder what happens if i enter my US key |
| 20:11.54 | Rallion | maybe with the patch tomorrow? |
| 20:11.58 | Kirkburn | Probably this week |
| 20:12.39 | Kirkburn | Next week is another games convention, so they may do it to conincide with that of course |
| 20:13.19 | Skrom|mmmtacos | okay I usually ignore chuck norris jokes... |
| 20:13.22 | Skrom|mmmtacos | but this is cracking me up |
| 20:13.23 | Skrom|mmmtacos | http://leonswebdesigns.com/cs/mullet/chuckawpwhore.gif |
| 20:13.23 | Kirkburn | (I would love it if that was when they announced the beta as well, of coure) |
| 20:13.56 | Cairenn | well, I got the page the first time, but since it's EU, I closed it ... and now it won't come up again |
| 20:13.58 | Cairenn | times out |
| 20:14.11 | Cide | they zapped it! |
| 20:14.16 | Kirkburn | Seems it's been taken down already |
| 20:14.29 | Cairenn | someone f'd up |
| 20:14.33 | Cairenn | putting it up |
| 20:14.43 | Kirkburn | aye |
| 20:14.56 | Rallion | isn't PAX next week, too" |
| 20:14.57 | Rallion | ? |
| 20:15.06 | Kirkburn | Not sure, could be |
| 20:15.25 | Rallion | ooh it's actually in 4 days |
| 20:15.33 | Kirkburn | 25th-27th, PAX |
| 20:16.12 | Rallion | i wonder if they'll have any of their exhibitors do any 'unveiling' type stuff, or just more playable demos |
| 20:16.27 | Kirkburn | Leipzig games convention, 23rd-27th |
| 20:16.30 | Rallion | wow |
| 20:16.38 | Rallion | crazy weekend |
| 20:16.57 | Kirkburn | yu-huh :) |
| 20:17.02 | Rallion | I'd assume that most/all 'announcement' type deals would be made at Leipzig, then |
| 20:17.09 | Kirkburn | Yeah |
| 20:17.16 | Kirkburn | The booths are looking pretty good already |
| 20:17.41 | Rallion | wow, PAX has a damn nice list of sponsors |
| 20:18.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mr_Rabies (i=yams@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:18.58 | Rallion | I just can't wait until they start having east-coast PAX |
| 20:19.00 | Rallion | I wanna go. |
| 20:19.14 | Rallion | I want to get into the Omegathon and get my ass kicked. |
| 20:19.23 | Rallion | because I SUCK. |
| 20:19.45 | Skrom|mmmtacos | that's a good reason to get it kicked |
| 20:20.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:20.54 | Skrom|mmmtacos | heh |
| 20:21.16 | Rallion | heh the guy who headed the creation of DirectX runs WildTangent now. |
| 20:21.56 | Skrom | Know what the guy who led the push for DX10 to only be on vista heads now? |
| 20:22.20 | Skrom | the pike in my front yard >< |
| 20:22.47 | Skrom | sorry techy joke... >.> |
| 20:23.00 | Skrom | techy = techie |
| 20:23.10 | Kirkburn | =) |
| 20:24.15 | Skrom | oh crap I forgot, I need to order two printers and a jetdirect so I can go to a branch office next week >< |
| 20:24.39 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 20:24.42 | Rallion | Skrom: I laughed. |
| 20:24.57 | Skrom | heh |
| 20:27.24 | Skrom | my server's irc is dead |
| 20:27.33 | cogwheel | Skrom, wach this: |
| 20:27.41 | cogwheel | s/ch/tch/ |
| 20:28.26 | Skrom | O.o |
| 20:28.30 | Skrom | what am I seeing? |
| 20:28.31 | cogwheel | makes it easy to correct yourself :) at least when he's behaving... |
| 20:28.56 | cogwheel | s means substitute. It will change ch to tch in the example i gave |
| 20:29.09 | cogwheel | techy |
| 20:29.12 | cogwheel | s/y/ie/ |
| 20:29.35 | Skrom | oh, neat |
| 20:29.53 | Skrom | haw |
| 20:29.56 | Skrom | s/haw/hehe |
| 20:30.02 | Skrom | doh |
| 20:30.08 | zenzelezz | missed a / |
| 20:30.08 | cogwheel | need a / on the end ;P |
| 20:30.13 | Skrom | oh indeed |
| 20:30.29 | Skrom | s/deed/ need/ |
| 20:30.48 | Skrom | ccc |
| 20:31.10 | Skrom | s/c/he/ |
| 20:31.13 | Skrom | O.o |
| 20:31.17 | Cairenn | lol |
| 20:31.30 | Skrom | okay I'm done playing |
| 20:32.00 | Skrom | s/lay/lagu/ |
| 20:32.04 | Skrom | !! |
| 20:32.23 | Skrom | I couldn't help myself >< |
| 20:32.47 | Skrom | so I recently moved my company over to a new main server box. Beaut of a system |
| 20:33.14 | Skrom | and I'm cleaning the old data off the other one and I told it to start deleting this morning at about 10... it's still not even 1/4 done... should have just formatted, it'd have been faster. |
| 20:34.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Silv (n=Silvio@adsl-4-239-226.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:48.17 | Rallion | the crappy thing about my USB headphones is that they don't include a MIDI device, so unless I use something like Quicktime they just don't play MIDI |
| 20:48.51 | Rallion | so any and all midi comes out of my main speakers |
| 20:49.08 | Rallion | luckily I pretty much only deal with MIDI when it comes to ringtones |
| 21:04.13 | JoshBorke | bye all :-) |
| 21:04.14 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@jak-579.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 21:04.42 | Skrom | is it too much to ask to have a legit full download of the complete works of U2 readily available on p2p? |
| 21:05.46 | Industrial | 1. Can't be legit 2. U2? 3. U2? |
| 21:05.51 | cogwheel | If the RIAA has anything to say about it then, yes... :P Legit or otherwise, the record companies lose. |
| 21:06.22 | Skrom | legit as in I think I'd downloading U2 and getting U2 not like donkey porn or something |
| 21:06.43 | Industrial | lol |
| 21:06.49 | Skrom | But I'll be sure to send any of the failures your way if you want ;) |
| 21:06.49 | Industrial | well then you aren't using the right means |
| 21:07.11 | Skrom | I use e-donkey and it's generally very good |
| 21:07.22 | Skrom | but I had "complete best of 1980-1990 queued up |
| 21:07.25 | Industrial | just get the bittorrent.org client - its fine - and seach on their website - its fine - and youll be - fine - :P |
| 21:07.28 | Skrom | and it ended up being... something else |
| 21:08.51 | Skrom | Industrial, how old are you? |
| 21:09.06 | Industrial | 19 |
| 21:09.09 | Skrom | ah |
| 21:09.09 | Industrial | why |
| 21:09.17 | Skrom | that explains your questions #2 and #3 |
| 21:09.25 | Skrom | ;) |
| 21:10.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 21:10.18 | Skrom | oooo they might be giants complete discografia |
| 21:10.25 | Skrom | teh win |
| 21:11.08 | Skrom | try as I might I can't seem to find the theme to the letter people |
| 21:11.44 | Skrom | oops looks like I'm going to exceed my disk quota... |
| 21:11.49 | Industrial | :p |
| 21:11.51 | Skrom | oh well guess it's good I'm the admin ;) |
| 21:12.29 | Industrial | I have 32gb racked up as we speak :o |
| 21:12.37 | Industrial | all anime \o/ |
| 21:12.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 21:13.12 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 21:13.27 | Cairenn | hi Qzot |
| 21:13.49 | Qzot | How goes 'things'? |
| 21:17.39 | Cairenn | they go |
| 21:17.40 | Cairenn | you? |
| 21:17.47 | Qzot | Yay! |
| 21:17.54 | Cairenn | yay? |
| 21:18.05 | Qzot | Yes, yay. |
| 21:18.21 | Qzot | Blizzard acknowlegdes that items were lost in last Friday's crash. |
| 21:18.29 | Qzot | s/gd/dg/ |
| 21:19.16 | Qzot | s/crash/episode/ |
| 21:19.26 | Shadowed | s/episode/STUFF HAPPENED!/ |
| 21:20.37 | Qzot | With the concomitant hope that said items will be restored in Tuesday morning's maintenance. |
| 21:20.47 | Qzot | Ahhhh. My fortune restored. |
| 21:20.54 | Cairenn | yay |
| 21:21.23 | Qzot | Hey, we're talking 3-5000g, while my cash holdings were about 7s on one toon, and 10g on the other. |
| 21:21.51 | Qzot | Lol, I won't even have enough cash to repost a single item, let alone all of them. |
| 21:24.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 21:24.10 | JoshBorke | wereHamster: ping |
| 21:25.00 | Qzot | JoshBorke: pong |
| 21:25.26 | JoshBorke | ...wereHamster == Qzot? o.O |
| 21:26.50 | Qzot | JoshBorke: No. Qzot == random neurons firing in brain. |
| 21:27.08 | JoshBorke | mmk |
| 21:29.00 | joyjey | is there a nice site with wow xml api? (except wowwiki, moslty got the functions, not XML "defenitions") |
| 21:29.16 | Shadowed | nope |
| 21:29.19 | joyjey | kk oO |
| 21:29.31 | JoshBorke | download the development kit from blizzard and it sholud have the UI.xsd |
| 21:29.38 | joyjey | ah ok, thx |
| 21:29.39 | JoshBorke | another option is fara frames |
| 21:29.47 | JoshBorke | one sec |
| 21:29.49 | joyjey | fara frames? |
| 21:30.14 | JoshBorke | http://fara.webeddie.com/frames/ |
| 21:30.58 | JoshBorke | if you go all the way to the end |
| 21:31.22 | JoshBorke | ah, here's the link: http://fara.webeddie.com/ui/ |
| 21:31.48 | cogwheel | what's wrong with http://www.wowwiki.com/XML_User_Interface ? (not saying you shouldn't look at fara, but this appears to be what you're looking for and it's on the wiki...) |
| 21:32.32 | joyjey | the object:function() is nice, but I'm looking for the <frame something=""> docs |
| 21:32.49 | cogwheel | you didn't click on my link, did you? |
| 21:32.50 | cogwheel | :P |
| 21:32.58 | joyjey | ops oO |
| 21:33.21 | joyjey | JoshBorke: thx mate :) |
| 21:33.28 | Kirkburn | lol, it's as if somepeople just go out of their way to get themselves banned from the wowwiki |
| 21:33.30 | joyjey | and same goes for cogwheel :) |
| 21:33.51 | Kirkburn | One long-time user decided he should insult my on *my own* talk page |
| 21:33.58 | Kirkburn | s/my/me/ |
| 21:34.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-71-197-15-14.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.26 | JoshBorke | Kirkburn: oooo! can i do that? ^_^ |
| 21:35.36 | Kirkburn | His exact words: "Kirkban ----------------> nn (This is me showing you my butt, you gay jerk)" signed Quinn' Tonstern . Pure genius. It's as if it came from a opera writer ... |
| 21:35.50 | JoshBorke | ... |
| 21:36.01 | Kirkburn | Plus some other stuff, of course |
| 21:36.01 | JoshBorke | you have some odd followers Kirkburn |
| 21:36.18 | Kirkburn | The guy is a madman :/ |
| 21:36.42 | Kirkburn | He's almost been banned before - he seems permanently hyperactive and drunk |
| 21:38.17 | Qzot | Are the wow fora borked for anyone else? |
| 21:38.38 | Cairenn | yup |
| 21:38.44 | Qzot | Good. |
| 21:38.54 | Cairenn | yeah, hate to suffer alone, right? |
| 21:38.55 | Cairenn | :p |
| 21:39.04 | Qzot | I'm just paranoid enough to wonder whether Blizzard would ban IP addresses. :D |
| 21:40.44 | Qzot | Having my posts deleted probably upped my susceptibility. |
| 21:40.48 | Shadowed | They have no reason to IP ban you when they can ban the account :p |
| 21:42.05 | Qzot | Banning the account can't prevent one from *reading*. |
| 21:42.05 | Qzot | And, as I said, I'm just paranoid enough to *wonder*, not believe. |
| 21:42.25 | Skrom | I've seen quite a few be banned at the server/character level |
| 21:42.35 | Skrom | they can still post, just not with any character from a particular server |
| 21:42.43 | Qzot | Wow. |
| 21:43.01 | Qzot | I just had my posts deleted -- very, *very* polite posts, I might add. |
| 21:43.47 | Shadowed | about what |
| 21:44.54 | Qzot | About items missing after Friday night's crash of Battlegroup 5. |
| 21:45.23 | Qzot | In-game GMs directed us to forums, which had no post, etc. I asked for Blizzard to start an official thread providing info. |
| 21:46.33 | Corrodias | holy crap, you guys had quite a discussion about threat generation |
| 21:46.56 | Corrodias | i had no idea about that 10% margin requirement |
| 21:46.58 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 21:47.36 | Corrodias | i don't play a warrior, yet, but it's good to know anyway. is there any way to know how much threat we have, with numbers, other than using that threatmeter mod, which looks like everybody in the party must have it? |
| 21:47.39 | Kirov | where's that conversation? |
| 21:47.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=Kirkburn@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 21:48.15 | Shadowed | Corrodias: no |
| 21:48.19 | Shadowed | don't need threat mods |
| 21:48.30 | Qzot | I don't have access to the convo, but is K?? ThreatMeter the mod under discussion? |
| 21:49.24 | Kirkburn | Quick off-topic aside here: I've been working some more on http://chig3.georgepribul.eu/ - can anyone suggest any more design/layout improvements or any bugs left? |
| 21:49.33 | Corrodias | Shadowed: please explain |
| 21:50.16 | Kirkburn | (i've even got it to the point where the html references no images whatsoever, it's all in the CSS :P) |
| 21:50.22 | Shadowed | As in, you don't need them. And theres other issues if you rely on them |
| 21:50.23 | Kaso | mmm latin |
| 21:50.36 | Skrom | other then the fact you are based in EU I can't thin of anything wrong with it |
| 21:50.37 | Kirkburn | Well, fake latin =) |
| 21:50.59 | cogwheel | there's a slight problem with the drop shadow/right border at the very top-right corner of the orange box |
| 21:51.00 | Kirkburn | heh, the EU rocks |
| 21:51.01 | Corrodias | i know that each mob has an indivitual threat list, which makes it a silly idea except perhaps against bosses |
| 21:51.07 | Corrodias | or against the offtank's target |
| 21:51.10 | cogwheel | Also, I think the orange box looked better as a solid color |
| 21:52.02 | Kirkburn | It never was solid ... although I did tweak the colours to make it look less like sh*t on my other monitor recently =) |
| 21:52.20 | Kirkburn | (mmm, brown-orangey mush) |
| 21:52.36 | Kirkburn | Not sure about the shadow problem |
| 21:52.46 | cogwheel | I think the hovers at the top should be <A> tags even if they just link to #. It seems more intuitive for the cursor to change when to the hand when you hover over them. |
| 21:52.58 | Cide | Kirov: that conversation is waaaaaaaaaay up |
| 21:52.59 | Kirkburn | What browser is that? |
| 21:53.04 | cogwheel | FF |
| 21:53.16 | cogwheel | i'll SS it for you in a sec |
| 21:53.24 | Kirkburn | That's a point, it's supposed to change to a pointer |
| 21:53.31 | Cide | are you doing cursor: hand ? |
| 21:53.58 | Kirkburn | I had it as cursor:pointer |
| 21:54.03 | Cide | weird |
| 21:54.14 | cogwheel | It feels unnatural for it not to change... |
| 21:54.15 | Cide | cursor: hand is the IE idea I believe |
| 21:54.18 | Kirkburn | The top row aren't clickable links |
| 21:54.28 | cogwheel | I know, but still... |
| 21:54.57 | Kirkburn | I mean, they're not even links *at all* =) |
| 21:54.59 | cogwheel | I figured out the orange box problem... it turns out FF is moving it up underneath the header |
| 21:55.17 | Kirkburn | FF1.5? |
| 21:55.35 | cogwheel | yep |
| 21:55.57 | Kirkburn | Looks fine for me, but screenshots always help =) |
| 21:56.06 | cogwheel | workin on it :P |
| 21:56.37 | cogwheel | it works fine in Opera... surprisingly it seems ie7 got this correct over FF :P |
| 21:56.41 | Kirkburn | I converted nearly everything over to gifs earlier, just about halved the size :P |
| 21:56.55 | Kirkburn | \o/ |
| 21:57.10 | Qzot | Shadowed: Are you going to say more about threat mods? I'm interested in listening. |
| 21:57.57 | Kirkburn | (the site likely won't be going live until IE7 is released, so I'm not worrying *too* much about IE6 atm) |
| 21:59.35 | cogwheel | http://home.comcast.net/~m_orlando/chig.jpg |
| 21:59.48 | cogwheel | hmm... that didn't work |
| 22:00.07 | Kirkburn | apparently not :P |
| 22:00.10 | cogwheel | >http://home.comcast.net/~m_orlando/chig.JPG |
| 22:00.35 | Kirkburn | Um, you need to do a cache refresh |
| 22:00.35 | cogwheel | you know what... |
| 22:00.43 | cogwheel | I just was gonna say that |
| 22:00.47 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 22:00.57 | cogwheel | TBH, I kinda like it better the old way ;) |
| 22:01.25 | Kirkburn | Reason I made the change is it makes it easier for me to insert and remove in future |
| 22:01.50 | Kirkburn | And also so I can put it in mroe places |
| 22:01.59 | Shadowed | Qzot: Not much more to say |
| 22:02.34 | Kirkburn | I'm not completely happy with it - I'm thinking of changing it to look like it is popping out from under the side |
| 22:02.45 | Qzot | Shadowed: Other than, "no need, and they cause problems"? |
| 22:03.10 | Shadowed | I never said they cause problems, but if you as a DPS class or a warrior need to rely on them to do your job then you have other issues. |
| 22:04.14 | Qzot | That would require some explanation to convince me. |
| 22:04.39 | Shadowed | Lets say you can get 40 people in your raid |
| 22:04.42 | Shadowed | er ignore that |
| 22:04.51 | cogwheel | kirkburn, the only thing I'd suggest at this point is making the topleft radius the same as the bottomleft on that orange box ;) |
| 22:04.55 | Qzot | A real mage min-maxer, for example, might wish to learn tho shave *just* under the tank. Feedback seems helpful, at least for a prima facie argument. |
| 22:04.58 | Shadowed | Part of the whole challenge in encounters is your threat |
| 22:05.00 | Skrom | Shadowed is of the opinion that intuition > precision which in some cases is true, and some cases not |
| 22:05.29 | Kirkburn | Shall do, cogwheel |
| 22:05.37 | Shadowed | No, i'm in the opinion that using something that can give you a fairly accurate threat # ( in non de-aggro encounters ) is silly. If Blizzard wanted us to have access to that information they would have given it |
| 22:05.50 | Skrom | they did |
| 22:05.59 | Shadowed | No they didn't |
| 22:06.01 | Skrom | in the effect that they allowed people to determine the numbers |
| 22:06.04 | Skrom | use their brains and so on |
| 22:06.41 | Skrom | I wholeheartedly agree that threatmeters are a crutch |
| 22:06.51 | Skrom | that if you CAN'T play without them then you shouldn't be at that level |
| 22:06.58 | Shadowed | The way that people got the information was either using spell data from stuff like thottbot, they *never* give you specific threat values. |
| 22:07.03 | Skrom | but if your group is a well oiled machine I think that a threat meter can give you a great edge |
| 22:07.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@202.180.72.174) |
| 22:07.17 | Skrom | No shadowed, they got it by mostly doing threat tests |
| 22:07.21 | Skrom | and using their old noggin' |
| 22:07.28 | Shadowed | Which isn't Blizzard provided. |
| 22:07.33 | Skrom | agree |
| 22:07.44 | Skrom | however blizzard probided the tools to report said data |
| 22:07.58 | Shadowed | Hrm, I actually think they may have something that prevents against it |
| 22:08.00 | Skrom | in their api, someone with the genius to see that 2+2 really does = 4 decided to do so |
| 22:08.02 | Qzot | So ... you think that players should not construct and test mental models of how the game works? |
| 22:08.16 | Shadowed | No, I think that players should not be using something like a Threat mod. |
| 22:08.33 | Skrom | I think it's a quality of a great game that certain individuals would spend hours testing and coding something as intricate as a threat meter |
| 22:08.45 | Skrom | I applaud them for it, pure genius imo |
| 22:09.08 | Shadowed | Knowing the threat values is interesting at times, that's not what I said I had an issue with. It's the people who rely on a mod that removes half of the challenge |
| 22:09.22 | Skrom | if it were possible to force people to learn how to raid without it before they could use it then I would fully support that |
| 22:09.27 | Shadowed | ( threat values being the specific values of an ability, not the total threat on a mod ) |
| 22:09.28 | Skrom | I agree with you there shadowed |
| 22:09.36 | Shadowed | mod = mob |
| 22:09.45 | Qzot | Shadowed: Is it acceptable for multiple guilds to discuss tactics for instance mobs? If so, how is this conceptually different from building mathematical models of how the game mechanics work? |
| 22:09.55 | Skrom | a very good point shadowed |
| 22:10.12 | Skrom | and if I recall that very point was brought up in the thread dedicated t othis discussion on the forum |
| 22:10.25 | Shadowed | I didn't say that there was issues with people *gathering* the data. I said theres issues with people that *use* the data in order to remove half of the challenge of an encounter or there class. |
| 22:11.00 | Skrom | to me it means that blizzard needs to rethink some of their encounters |
| 22:11.03 | Qzot | Ah. I don't believe I've seen the kinds of uses you're describing, then, although my own guild does use such a mod. |
| 22:11.16 | Shadowed | use = KLTM |
| 22:11.34 | Skrom | they can't rely on the "beat down one mob, keep it on the tank" style of gaming |
| 22:11.45 | Shadowed | Actually, they havn't used that style since MC |
| 22:11.46 | Skrom | that EQ had for it's first 5 years |
| 22:11.56 | Skrom | patchwerk? |
| 22:12.07 | Skrom | it's that style with a twist |
| 22:12.18 | Skrom | keep it on the tank, hit it hard but by golly do it all before 7 minutes hits |
| 22:12.35 | Shadowed | Patchwerk is a lot more then just beat down one mob and keep it on the tank |
| 22:12.40 | Corrodias | so you're saying... what, that it's unfair for a mage to reduce the challenge he faces? |
| 22:12.57 | Shadowed | What's a mage's job? |
| 22:13.04 | Qzot | Mages are overpowered, anyway. Why should we care about them? |
| 22:13.19 | Corrodias | as far as i'm aware, the mage's primary role is dealing damage, especially AoE damage |
| 22:13.23 | Skrom | Okay Shadowed, splain what else patchwerk is then? I mean really. Don't get hit unless you are the tank... kill it before 7 minutes |
| 22:13.44 | Skrom | oh and avoid that cheap-ass uppercut he does |
| 22:13.50 | Shadowed | You can reduce every fight to that. Using that as an example wont change anything |
| 22:14.00 | Skrom | no, you really can't reduce it to that |
| 22:14.01 | Cide | patchwerk is all about healing |
| 22:14.03 | Skrom | twin emps is a great example |
| 22:14.10 | Corrodias | what is patchwerk? o.o |
| 22:14.13 | Shadowed | Cide summed it up |
| 22:14.15 | Cide | literally everything that is hard about patchwerk is keeping the tanks alive |
| 22:14.19 | Cide | everything. |
| 22:14.30 | Skrom | granted |
| 22:14.42 | Shadowed | I'm one of the offtanks in my guild for Patchwerk. There is *nothing* I can do except hope that they keep me up. |
| 22:14.45 | Skrom | the only reason patches was \brought up was because Shadowed said "nothing since mc" is keep the tank alive |
| 22:14.59 | Cide | well |
| 22:15.00 | Cide | in MC |
| 22:15.02 | Shadowed | No, nothing since MC is just keep the tank alive. |
| 22:15.07 | Skrom | it's still just a straight drop him before he drops you |
| 22:15.09 | Cide | you had a mob with an ability or two |
| 22:15.13 | Skrom | sorry I said tank, I meant tanks |
| 22:15.16 | Cide | no scripts or anything |
| 22:15.23 | Skrom | it's still just one mob, focus fired, no adds |
| 22:15.23 | Cide | the mobs just cast it when the cooldown was up |
| 22:15.27 | Cide | until domo and ragnaros |
| 22:15.34 | Corrodias | what does this have to do with addons? |
| 22:15.51 | Cide | you actually have to figure out the mechanics of hateful strike, which is what differs it from MC fights |
| 22:16.00 | Skrom | Corro: I said having things like KLTM available forces blizz to rethink some of their encounters |
| 22:16.02 | Cide | but then again, it's still pretty simple |
| 22:16.12 | Skrom | everything can't just be "take it out before it does the same to you" anymore |
| 22:16.22 | Cide | what has that to do with threat? |
| 22:16.27 | Corrodias | that sounds like a good thing... i like interesting fights |
| 22:16.29 | Cide | no fight in the game has been threat sensitive sinec BWL |
| 22:16.30 | Cide | since |
| 22:16.31 | Skrom | same |
| 22:16.59 | Cide | and then it was more of a "common theme" amongst the drakes |
| 22:17.15 | Skrom | Well I just keep thinking back to most of the EQ fights. There was very little variety until Luclin. |
| 22:17.19 | Shadowed | don't even need a mod, most of it an be done with common sense |
| 22:17.31 | Cide | we never used a mod for those fights and it was still trivial |
| 22:17.32 | Skrom | Don't overaggro, keep the tank (or tanks) up and you win |
| 22:17.45 | Shadowed | Wait a few sunders, slowly start to increase your damage until you're going all out |
| 22:17.54 | Corrodias | Shadowed: there's no point in being upset about somebody having a different opinion about whether or not they want to use something |
| 22:18.04 | Corrodias | there's no point in being upset at people who like SUV's just because you don't want one |
| 22:18.07 | Skrom | is shadowed upset? |
| 22:18.18 | Skrom | I thought we were just discussing :) |
| 22:18.23 | Shadowed | what Skrom said |
| 22:18.42 | Skrom | I still think things like KLTM are crutches that should be earned and not assumed |
| 22:18.58 | Shadowed | well, you can never really learn to raid. You just get encounters on farm status |
| 22:19.36 | Shadowed | er let me rephrase that. Raiding isn't really something that you just hit a point where you're a master and nothing will change, new encounters have something new to deal with or a trick to figure out. |
| 22:19.40 | Skrom | well sort of disagree there |
| 22:19.45 | Skrom | right |
| 22:19.56 | Corrodias | so can you state, in a complete sentence, what it is that you don't like about people using KLTM? |
| 22:19.59 | Skrom | you can learn how to "raid" but not necessarily know "an encounter" |
| 22:20.05 | Skrom | me or shadowed? |
| 22:20.15 | Corrodias | both, if it applies to both of you |
| 22:20.27 | Skrom | I love the idea |
| 22:20.41 | Skrom | I think it's bloody brilliant |
| 22:20.50 | AnduinLothar | i dont like when people use it as an excuse for why they agroed |
| 22:20.53 | Skrom | it's the type of number crunching I absolutely love and pour over |
| 22:21.13 | Shadowed | Threat (as Cide said) is not a huge issue, even during BWL. If you need 40 people in your raid to beat an encounter, you have other issues that should be addressed. |
| 22:21.18 | Skrom | but I don't like the fact that some people can't play without it. I feel that anyone who can't needs to group more and learn their class |
| 22:21.28 | Shadowed | Common sense works better then using a mod to do it |
| 22:21.38 | Kaso | Shadowed) |
| 22:22.11 | Skrom | it's the old Learn to Play line come back to haunt us |
| 22:22.11 | Kaso | you can say that about alot of things, yet we still have all us here writing mods to do stuff common sense can do |
| 22:22.11 | Corrodias | so Skrom doesn't like when people -depend- on it because it means they probably don't understand their class as well as they could and it hurts their performance. |
| 22:22.31 | Corrodias | Shadowed doesn't like when people use it because he thinks they can do better without it. |
| 22:22.42 | Skrom | Not just hurts their performance, can lead to hurting other peoples enjoyment of the game. If one person wipes that might be that last time that a person like me who doesn't get to play much can attend a raid for a week |
| 22:22.56 | Skrom | if he wipes because he doesn't know how to manage aggro aside from a mod.. well that's pretty crappy |
| 22:22.57 | Shadowed | No, I don't like it for the same reasons Skrom does basically. |
| 22:22.57 | Corrodias | Skrom: indeed, i agree that a partymate doing poorly is a negative point. |
| 22:23.00 | AnduinLothar | i dont liek it because it makes experienced players stop paying attention |
| 22:23.35 | Shadowed | True. but there's a point where you go from helping somebody but wont make them lazy and start doing poorly to doing a lot of the job for them |
| 22:23.37 | Shadowed | ( at Kaso ) |
| 22:23.41 | Corrodias | speaking of paying attention: i don't know how some of you do it. there are so many things to keep track of during complex fights! :o |
| 22:23.46 | Skrom | if I was leading a guild I would have a two part aproach to using KLTM. Mandatory OFF while we learn an encounter, and then optional on when we have it on farm |
| 22:23.55 | Skrom | corro: mods help with that :) |
| 22:23.59 | AnduinLothar | last time i did aq20 we had an experienced dps pally pulla gro off osserian and die and then blame it on threatmeters not being accurate |
| 22:24.59 | Skrom | mad props though to KLTM's authors like I said before. That's just a fine piece of work imo |
| 22:25.16 | Corrodias | as a healing druid, i've got my health and manage bars, everyone else's health and mana bars, or at least a priest's mana bar (innervate), my cooldowns, my bars indicating when my HoT's run out, and all the action on the screen including who has aggro and where adds may be coming from. |
| 22:25.38 | Corrodias | manage -> mana |
| 22:25.41 | Shadowed | just something you get used to after a while |
| 22:25.43 | AnduinLothar | yeah, it's nice. there's no way i woulda done it, i hate maintaining number crunching and premade database mods |
| 22:26.32 | Corrodias | i have quite a tough time of it, let me tell you |
| 22:26.42 | Corrodias | i probably have a much smaller attention range than most people, though |
| 22:27.19 | Qzot | Shadowed: Fwiw, I think the term "Common Sense" is a crutch. It is used to describe a body of skills, knowledge, or expectation that a person or group has that they expect others to have, but can't articulate. |
| 22:27.39 | Skrom | heh ohsnap |
| 22:27.53 | Corrodias | it's true |
| 22:27.59 | Shadowed | When I say common sense, I mean that if you're raiding, you should either be *learning* how to manage your threat and over time it becomes something that you don't really have to think about and just do. |
| 22:28.17 | AnduinLothar | that's learned skill not common sense |
| 22:28.31 | Tain | Common sense is a learned skill. |
| 22:28.36 | Skrom | how about we replace common sense with "second nature" |
| 22:28.39 | Qzot | Agreed about learning. Imho, feedback tools can be a great way to speed that process, or even refine it. |
| 22:29.08 | Skrom | since eventually good raiders will be able to manage threat without really thinking about it most of the time |
| 22:29.31 | Qzot | Relying on KLTM, however, is more like keep the French dictionary handy while reading Asterix. You're not there, yet. |
| 22:29.44 | Skrom | I'm a hunter... Aimed, Auto, Multi, Auto, Aimed, Auto, Multi, Auto Feign! |
| 22:29.58 | Codayus | If you use KLTM so you don't have to think, it's a problem. |
| 22:30.04 | Skrom | second nature but not at first |
| 22:30.20 | Tain | If you KLTM you're going to be a liability to a raid, it's a problem. |
| 22:30.25 | AnduinLothar | i use a few mods so i dont have to think. KLTM isn't one of them |
| 22:30.28 | Codayus | If you use KLTM to help you reach a stage where you don't have to use KLTM *or* think because its second nature...that's fine. |
| 22:30.39 | Tain | God no. |
| 22:30.48 | Tain | You can use KLTM *after* you know what you're doing. |
| 22:30.53 | Corrodias | as long as i can heal without getting aggro off the tank, i'll do what it takes to get there. |
| 22:30.55 | Tain | Using it to learn is going to teach you the wrong things since it's flawed. |
| 22:31.08 | Skrom | why do you say it's flawed? |
| 22:31.14 | Shadowed | Threat is easy to learn. It's not hard, it doesn't take much to learn it just requires a little bit of paying attention |
| 22:31.16 | Skrom | it's data is pretty accurate from what I've seen |
| 22:31.19 | Tain | Because it gives inaccurate results? |
| 22:31.28 | Skrom | I've not encountered that |
| 22:31.29 | Corrodias | or rather off the tank, rogue, hunter, and his pet, SINCE THEY CAN'T SEEM TO KEEP THEM FOCUSED ON ONE PC |
| 22:31.44 | Shadowed | Wait a little bit before opening up, don't land a huge heal on the warrior when he hasn't even hit the mob yet, ect |
| 22:31.48 | Tain | Sure it's accurate sometimes. Probably even most of the time. |
| 22:31.51 | Codayus | I kinda disagree with you Tain, and I've heard from several guilds that it was useful to help them learn Vael...once they learned the fight, they stopped using it, and were further along that they otherwise would be. |
| 22:32.11 | Codayus | Then again, my guild doesn't use it at all...so...eh. No personal experience. |
| 22:32.13 | Tain | But it only takes one time, and yes I have used it, a bunch of my guild tried using it for a while. |
| 22:32.16 | Corrodias | i think we had poor organization in that party |
| 22:32.33 | Corrodias | it also seems i can toss a HoT just before the warrior engages the enemy and they don't notice me :) |
| 22:32.37 | Tain | I am not against people using it if they think it helps. But don't use it as a learning tool when it's going to be wrong sometimes. |
| 22:32.53 | Tain | Or I should say don't use it as a substitute for learning. |
| 22:32.54 | Skrom | from what I've seen it's only wrong if you don't have everyone included |
| 22:32.56 | Tain | That's really what I mean. |
| 22:32.57 | Skrom | which is expected |
| 22:32.58 | Codayus | Tain: Well, using intuitin/instinct will be wrong a lot too... |
| 22:33.22 | Tain | Agreed Codayus. So don't rely on those either |
| 22:33.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Grumpey (n=Owner@dialup-4.88.22.186.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) |
| 22:33.26 | Shadowed | not really |
| 22:33.32 | Codayus | Substitute for learning? Bad. Aid to learning? Good... <shrug> |
| 22:33.54 | Grumpey | hiya's |
| 22:34.10 | Corrodias | the best way to do it is just by guessing. trust me. go try it. ;D |
| 22:34.11 | Shadowed | It'll be wrong, but the difference is you know that "Alright, waiting X seconds didn't work. I'll need to use something else, or wait longer" where as you wont have a way of knowing how accurate something like KLTM is |
| 22:34.13 | Tain | My whole issue with it is it's not always accurate. As long as someone keeps that in mind and temper its results with their own observations it's fine. |
| 22:34.13 | Codayus | But like I said, I haven't actually used KLTM, so if I'd ignore me. :-) |
| 22:34.32 | Qzot | Hmm. I think (1) the encounter is the *real* learning opportunity, but (2) modeling threat can be a useful tool for identifying/exploiting suboptimal threat generation, either too much threat (and agro), or too little threat (and lost healing/dps opportunity). |
| 22:34.48 | Shadowed | You could be 1# on KLTM but you're acutally 10#, or you could be 3# but you're really 1# and close to drawing aggro |
| 22:34.59 | Tain | I just play where if I know something is flawed I'd rather rely on my own inherant flaws than someone elses. |
| 22:35.15 | Codayus | Our first 3-4 tries on Vael we had tanks gaining aggro in totally the wrong order. As a healer, it was always a lovely surprise who would gain aggro. Even an INACCURATE threat meter might have been nice. |
| 22:35.15 | Tain | That way I have no one to blame. |
| 22:35.51 | Qzot | A poor workman blames his tools. That's not a point I'd argue with either Tain or Shadowed. |
| 22:35.55 | Codayus | Around try 6-8 the tanks got it together, the rotation went smoothly, and we downed Vael. So...I dunno. Seemed like KLTM could have been useful, but...meh. |
| 22:36.03 | Tain | The whole thing is if it's happening 3-4 times then people aren't learning. |
| 22:36.37 | Skrom | Qzot: Agree |
| 22:36.52 | Codayus | Tain: Disagreed. We were learning. "Hey, Tank C, you stole aggro from Tank B! Tank B, execute more...Tank C, tone it down." <wipe> "Okay, that was a little TOO much executing..." |
| 22:36.56 | Tain | Now I can't speak of tank aggro. But I play a Rogue so almost every fight I have is aggro management. |
| 22:37.02 | Codayus | *nod* |
| 22:37.04 | Qzot | Our guild is having a similar discussion about DamageMeter's overhealing stats. More long-term feedback than we're discussing re KLTM. But it shows that a few of our healers seem to be managing their mana much better than others. |
| 22:37.23 | Codayus | Vael is kind of a new experience for tanks I think...seems that way to us anyhow. We're nubs though, so I dunno. :-) |
| 22:37.36 | Tain | DamageMeters (or SW_Stats, or anything else) cann be a good tool because it's based on hard numbers. |
| 22:37.36 | Shadowed | Can't remember how they do overhealing checks in DM. But I'd imagine those are going to be fairly inaccurate |
| 22:37.52 | Qzot | Codayus: I don't even know where Vael *is*, so you can't call yourself a noob. :D |
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| 22:38.29 | Codayus | KLTM has a *lot* of hard numbers in it too. There's no debate over how much threat a sunder generates. The soft numbers are how much wing buffet and knockbacks decrease theeat... |
| 22:38.29 | Tain | But you run into problems because syncing doesn't always work right. Although we have separate groups now running SW_Stats and DamageMeters and they've given almost exactly identical results lately. |
| 22:38.29 | Codayus | Qzot: Ah, he. |
| 22:38.29 | Codayus | heh, even |
| 22:38.53 | Shadowed | KLTM may have hard numbers, but those numbers are infulenced by a lot of specific data which doesn't make them hard numbers. |
| 22:39.16 | Qzot | "Specific data" makes numbers less "hard"? o.O |
| 22:39.17 | Skrom | have you looked at the methods they used to gather the data though? |
| 22:39.20 | Shadowed | Salv, 70% threat trinket from AQ40, 35% (30%?) threat trinket from thaddius, defiance, aggro decreasing talents, ect |
| 22:39.43 | Skrom | pretty specific tests |
| 22:39.47 | Codayus | ...not seeing your point Shadowed. |
| 22:39.51 | Skrom | alot of really good work put into it |
| 22:40.02 | Shadowed | Lets say sunder causes 500 aggro |
| 22:40.12 | Codayus | The effect of the defiance talents is well known, and its taken into account by KLTM> |
| 22:40.41 | Shadowed | Which is why unless you can have 40 people running it, it's going to become inaccurate |
| 22:40.42 | Qzot | I think his argument is (with which I disagree): Number derived directly from the game's API or from parsing the combat text is to be more trusted than those obtained from empirical tests. |
| 22:40.57 | Codayus | Shadowed: Uh...right. I don'tthink anyone is debating that. |
| 22:41.17 | Skrom | yeah... everyone has to be in... there's no getting accureate results without full cooperation |
| 22:41.18 | Shadowed | Trying to check for BG queues. But the point being, you may know it causes 500. But you have new effects, talents, ect that can throw it off. |
| 22:41.33 | Skrom | and once those are tested they can be included |
| 22:41.38 | Skrom | that's why the mod stays in development |
| 22:41.44 | Codayus | ...yes, but RIGHT now, if a tank installs KLTM, the threat numbers for his sunder will be absolutely exact. |
| 22:41.56 | Skrom | his numbers |
| 22:42.28 | Codayus | Because the effect of sunder right now is known very very well, as is defiance, as is defensive stance... |
| 22:42.38 | Codayus | Next patch, that may all change. :-) |
| 22:43.07 | Qzot | Note, btw, Blizz could change *exactly* that. It would be easy for them to delink, ever so slightly, threat from damage done or healing done, by something analogous to crits, but which remains hidden to the players. |
| 22:43.40 | Codayus | Well, they're changing the math behind threat reduction in 1.12 aren't they? |
| 22:43.48 | Codayus | So that'll be a big spanner in the works. |
| 22:43.50 | Skrom | yep |
| 22:43.56 | Shadowed | they're changing the math behind haste and aggro reduction, not threat numbers ( unless something changed ) |
| 22:44.01 | Skrom | threat reduction scales multiplicativly now |
| 22:44.41 | Codayus | Which is probably for the best... :-) |
| 22:44.55 | Skrom | yeah... a big nerf to alot of people |
| 22:45.00 | Skrom | but definately important |
| 22:45.09 | Shadowed | I wanted to get 100% haste :( |
| 22:45.10 | Skrom | people were getting 100% threat reduction... |
| 22:45.14 | Qzot | It would be trivial, for example, simply to multiply ever addition to the hate list a random percentage 0-100%, so that mobs would notice some actions -- randomly -- more than others. The overall average would stay the same, but it would make it nigh impossible to know exactly. |
| 22:45.18 | Corrodias | i don't understand any of this, but hopefully will once i start my warrior, in the future. |
| 22:45.27 | Corrodias | gotta go, see you later |
| 22:45.58 | Cairenn | later Corrodias |
| 22:47.13 | Qzot | So, um, what instance is Patchwork in? |
| 22:47.17 | Shadowed | Naxx |
| 22:47.34 | Qzot | Ah. |
| 22:47.55 | Qzot | Suffice it to say, I'm still enjoying my Cenarion drops. :D |
| 22:49.43 | Skrom | later all, time to head home from work. Only 1:15 late this time |
| 22:49.50 | Skrom | meeting my parents for dinner, yum! |
| 22:49.54 | Cairenn | later Skrom |
| 22:50.49 | Rallion | anybody here know anything about the Tokyo Game Show? as in, will there be one, and when? |
| 23:01.44 | Rallion | hm, sept 24-26 |
| 23:02.20 | Rallion | which would seem like the most likely place for Nintendo to release Wii details, but it's so late... |
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| 23:12.45 | Cairenn | rofl @ today's QC! |
| 23:13.49 | zinor | QC? |
| 23:14.09 | Cairenn | http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=691 |
| 23:14.51 | Cairenn | today's just completely rocks! |
| 23:15.07 | Cairenn | and it's great reading the forum and discovering that literacy isn't actually dead |
| 23:15.22 | Cairenn | (the thread regarding today's) |
| 23:15.35 | Kaso | sucks that i had to wikipedia to understand that ;< |
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| 23:16.00 | zinor | i didn't fully understand it either, but im not an english buff |
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| 23:16.24 | Kirkburn1 | Nice comic, Cairenn :) |
| 23:16.54 | cogwheel | no more Kilkbuln? |
| 23:20.26 | kergoth | Cairenn: hahah, i like that one |
| 23:20.45 | Cairenn | yeah, pretty awesome one today, I'm pleased |
| 23:20.50 | cladhaire | Cairenn: hehehe |
| 23:22.10 | cladhaire | so.. i forgot to equip my FR gear for Firemaw. |
| 23:22.12 | cladhaire | Doh! |
| 23:24.06 | Kaso | just hide, noone will notice |
| 23:24.09 | Kaso | unless youre a tank |
| 23:24.14 | cladhaire | already dead =) |
| 23:24.15 | cladhaire | rogue :P |
| 23:24.46 | cogwheel | It's ok... I went to MC with a grand total of 10 FR unbuffed.... |
| 23:25.03 | cladhaire | you dont need fr for mc =) |
| 23:28.03 | Thrae | I just tried to /msg someone on IRC using /w =( |
| 23:28.10 | Kirkburn1 | cogwheel, I've switched kilkbuln to my third name now :P |
| 23:28.18 | cogwheel | hehe |
| 23:28.22 | Kirkburn1 | He appeared too often :P |
| 23:30.00 | Nightdew | cladhaire: never figured you a rogue really |
| 23:30.37 | cogwheel | is there a % code like %t but for the player's name? |
| 23:31.07 | Kaso | iirc %t is the only one in the default ui |
| 23:31.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADA299.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:32.39 | Kirkburn1 | %s, no? |
| 23:32.54 | Kirkburn1 | Or that something else? |
| 23:32.57 | Kirkburn1 | I forget |
| 23:33.07 | Shadowed | %s wont do nothing |
| 23:33.27 | Kirkburn1 | My other guess would be %p |
| 23:33.30 | Shadowed | nope |
| 23:33.38 | Kirkburn1 | :( |
| 23:41.17 | cladhaire | Nightdew: I'm a rogue, priest, druid. |
| 23:41.19 | cladhaire | rogue in beta and first char |
| 23:41.27 | cladhaire | sorry for the delayed response. |
| 23:43.34 | Kirkburn1 | How is everyone so relaxed on patch eve' :P |
| 23:44.24 | Cairenn | because I've so many other things I am completely stressed over, patch is nothing |
| 23:44.35 | Kaso | didnt even know it was patch time already |
| 23:44.54 | Kirkburn1 | Patch schmatch :P |
| 23:45.08 | Cairenn | precisely |
| 23:45.34 | Qzot | Are they proceeding with the patch? |
| 23:45.42 | Cairenn | we'll find out tomorrow :p |
| 23:45.45 | Qzot | Ah. |
| 23:45.53 | Qzot | I thought little birdies had informed you. |
| 23:46.09 | Cairenn | they did |
| 23:46.10 | Kirkburn1 | Nethaera has annouced it btw ;) |
| 23:46.15 | Cairenn | but they were wrong last week |
| 23:46.21 | Qzot | Ah. |
| 23:46.36 | Cairenn | so I'm not holding my breath |
| 23:46.42 | Qzot | I'll be shocked if they patch in light of the weekend's fiasco. |
| 23:46.43 | Kirkburn1 | Did the little birdie get their due pain and suffering? ;P |
| 23:46.50 | Cairenn | from what I'm hearing, another big problem showed up over the weekend |
| 23:46.56 | Qzot | LOL |
| 23:47.02 | Cairenn | Kirkburn1: no, they didn't, they'd have enjoyed it too much |
| 23:47.14 | Kirkburn1 | I saw the various blog posts about the US downtime, looked bad :/ |
| 23:47.15 | Tain | The patch doesn't really have anything to do with what happened to the live servers over the weekend. |
| 23:47.23 | Qzot | Translation: ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow |
| 23:47.33 | Kirkburn1 | Hopefully once all the upgrades are in place :) |
| 23:47.45 | Cairenn | the problem I'm talking about occurred on the PTR, not the mess on the live servers |
| 23:47.49 | Qzot | Tain: Not from what I've heard. But my sources are not reliable here. |
| 23:47.52 | Kirkburn1 | ah |
| 23:47.57 | Qzot | Ah. |
| 23:48.04 | Kirkburn1 | ooh! |
| 23:48.13 | Kirkburn1 | eee? |
| 23:48.18 | Tain | the PTR problems were different. I was talking about live. |
| 23:48.23 | Kirkburn1 | >.> |
| 23:48.28 | Qzot | I was talking about live, as well. |
| 23:48.31 | Kirkburn1 | What were the PTR problems them? |
| 23:48.36 | Kirkburn1 | *then |
| 23:48.59 | Qzot | But I've heard (again, unreliably), that this weekend's problems were related to hardware changes needed to support cross-realm battlegrounds. |
| 23:49.05 | Tain | I know there were some crazy buff bugs. People getting 400k HP and 100% damage reduction, and whatnot |
| 23:49.16 | Nightdew | how many macro icons does one have normally? |
| 23:49.48 | Nightdew | i only have 20 |
| 23:49.50 | Nightdew | wtf |
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| 23:49.59 | Kirkburn1 | aha, Tain I see the posts about it |
| 23:50.01 | Qzot | Icon? Or slots? |
| 23:50.04 | Kirkburn1 | The 'stat stacking' bug |
| 23:50.11 | Nightdew | icons .. when you create a new macro |
| 23:50.17 | Qzot | URL, Kirkburn1? |
| 23:50.23 | Kirkburn1 | The related post and the fix they implemented: http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/368243.htm |
| 23:50.35 | Kirkburn1 | It resulted from trying to fix another bug |
| 23:50.50 | Tain | There was a video of 7 people running through Naxx with absurd stats. |
| 23:51.03 | Tain | Hitting bosses for 20k normal melee non-crit hits. |
| 23:51.12 | Kirkburn1 | lool |
| 23:51.18 | cladhaire | they killed kel'thuzad |
| 23:51.18 | Cairenn | given that, it's possible it may not go live tomorrow |
| 23:51.25 | Kirkburn1 | :O |
| 23:51.25 | Cairenn | but it was supposed to |
| 23:51.49 | Kirkburn1 | Neth's post was at 4PM: http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general/9607117.htm |
| 23:51.52 | Cairenn | soooo ... we'll find out tomorrow ;) |
| 23:51.56 | Industrial | Tain, url? |
| 23:51.57 | Kirkburn1 | But indeed |
| 23:52.07 | Kirkburn1 | Tomorrow shall be the day of finding outness |
| 23:52.25 | cladhaire | i'm not ready for it to go live. |
| 23:54.12 | Qzot | I'm willing to bet against, and be surprised. |
| 23:55.03 | Qzot | They're telling folks that lost items that those will be restored in tonight's update. Imho, that seems iffy to try to do simultaneously with a patch. Possible, but iffy. |
| 23:55.17 | Qzot | s/that/who/ |
| 23:55.42 | Qzot | s/update/maintenance period/ |
| 23:56.23 | Kirkburn1 | stop being pedantic, that's my job ;) |
| 23:57.50 | Qzot | hehe. |
| 23:58.37 | Qzot | But you're right: Nethaera's post is there in black and white: "The additional time will allow for the application of a patch." |
| 23:59.02 | Qzot | s/black and white/black and blue/ |
| 23:59.16 | Qzot | s/black and white/blue and black, actually/ |
| 23:59.40 | Qzot | Well, maybe more like cyan and black, really. |
| 23:59.40 | Kirkburn1 | You beat me :( |
| 23:59.53 | Cairenn | Kirkburn1: you wish |
