| 00:03.03 | Tem | so, last night we cleared all of BWL in one night |
| 00:03.07 | Tem | our first time... |
| 00:03.15 | AnduinLothar | wow |
| 00:03.18 | AnduinLothar | grats |
| 00:03.21 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.28 | Tem | (our first one night clear that is) |
| 00:03.32 | Kirov | How long do you take? |
| 00:03.39 | Tem | little more than 4 hours |
| 00:03.46 | Tem | we formed up at 7:30 |
| 00:03.47 | AnduinLothar | not bad at all |
| 00:03.50 | Kirov | Our record is 2 1/2 hours |
| 00:03.59 | Tem | cleared out at 12 |
| 00:04.04 | AnduinLothar | we formed at 7:30 and did ony and razor and vael.. |
| 00:04.10 | AnduinLothar | and cleared at 1:30 |
| 00:04.12 | AnduinLothar | er |
| 00:04.14 | AnduinLothar | 11:30 |
| 00:04.29 | Tem | but now we don't know what the hell to do tonight... |
| 00:04.36 | AnduinLothar | aq40 |
| 00:04.40 | Kirov | These days we keep wiping on Vael for half an hour until everyone wakes up. |
| 00:04.41 | Tem | tonight is typically Chromag and Nef |
| 00:04.44 | Vallerius | Shadowed: huzzah! "Yes, in 1.12 release you will be able to use "BATTLEGROUND" in addition to the other message types." |
| 00:04.46 | Rallion | I wish WoW SciTE handled XML code folding correctly. |
| 00:05.20 | Rallion | It's sooo close, too. |
| 00:05.26 | Shadowed | Vallerius: Yeah I saw, already working on some comm stuff for when i can get back on test |
| 00:05.50 | cladhaire | Rallion: Whats the issue with it? |
| 00:05.51 | Tem | yeah, we're gonna go into AQ, but it was really kinda funny to get online and be like... "Uhh so... hey guys." |
| 00:06.02 | Tem | rather than "GET ON MAINS. INVITES FOR BWL IN 5" |
| 00:06.07 | Rallion | Oh, found a solution. |
| 00:06.59 | AnduinLothar | heh, i dont think anyone on my guild ever sais 'get on mains' |
| 00:07.06 | Rallion | If you have a line like <Script file="foo"/> at the top, it doesn't fold up the next element below it properly...but if you replace it with <Script file="foo"></Script> it does. |
| 00:07.19 | AnduinLothar | it's more like "So what do we need tonight, should i get on my hunter, war or priest?" |
| 00:07.39 | Tem | AnduinLothar, we have a lot of altaholics |
| 00:08.14 | AnduinLothar | imo anyone with more than 2 60's is an altaholic too.. |
| 00:08.24 | Rallion | My guild has 8 accounts, 40 characters |
| 00:08.30 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 00:08.37 | Rallion | and three of those accounts only have one, I think |
| 00:08.39 | AnduinLothar | sounds about right |
| 00:08.45 | cladhaire | Rallion: Hrm, I'll take a look at it.. this happens in the new version? |
| 00:08.57 | Mery | i can't level alts... my highest alt is 20... to summon for outdoorbosses |
| 00:09.28 | cladhaire | Rallion: Seems fixed in this version |
| 00:09.42 | AnduinLothar | i got sick of leveling real quick when i got my 3rd char to 30.. the first 2 were on test realms |
| 00:09.55 | Rallion | Then I don't have the latest version. |
| 00:10.16 | AnduinLothar | haven't got anything more than my main past 30 since retail |
| 00:10.38 | cladhaire | Rallion: http://dump.brokendreams.net/files/scite-wowi.zip contains the latest |
| 00:10.38 | Rallion | I have 2 60's, a 54, a 31, and a 25 on Arthas Alliance, then a 14 and a 12 on Crushridge Horde |
| 00:10.45 | Rallion | cladhaire: thanks |
| 00:11.28 | cladhaire | Rallion: Let me know if it works |
| 00:11.36 | cladhaire | it may not play well with other versions of scite. |
| 00:11.41 | cladhaire | and its in beta for a bit more. |
| 00:14.29 | Rallion | I actually still have the same problem |
| 00:16.12 | cladhaire | can you pastebin the xml? |
| 00:28.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mr_Rabies2|away (i=Mr_Rabie@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
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| 00:33.29 | Kirov | Cide - btw, about the CT_Raid lag. Did you see the problems Mikk and I were having with SetPoint? |
| 00:37.43 | Mikk | Gah. Bitten in the arse by UTF-8 |
| 00:43.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo (n=Kemayo@pool-71-103-166-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:52.33 | Mikk | bleh. i need to fire IGNORELIST_UPDATE somehow |
| 00:53.04 | Mikk | i don't like the idea of calling the framexml event handler directly to feed it =/ |
| 00:55.24 | Rallion | ahhh that is such a good feeling! I finally grasped what I need to do to build this addon |
| 00:56.14 | Rallion | there are things I need to figure out, but I don't care, I now have distinct goals |
| 01:01.15 | Mikk | Good feeling (n): Emotional state felt by programmers when they believe they've solved the last problem. Lasts until they find the next last problem. |
| 01:02.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 01:03.30 | Rallion | Hehe, oh, there are weeks, or months, left of problem territory. I know this. But the problem that I solved was basically my lack of understanding of the WoW UI system |
| 01:03.34 | Rallion | So that's a biggie. |
| 01:04.09 | Mikk | Ok, you have my permission to feel good for a bit :-P |
| 01:04.46 | Rallion | Thank you :P |
| 01:07.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobble (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 01:10.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:13.56 | Kaso | i've got this problem, i'm hookinh SetItemRef too add stuff to the ItemRefTooltip, the problem is im doing ClearLine() before i add the info. then when someone clicks on the item again that would normally hide the tooltip, because its been cleared, the SetHyperlink in the SetItemRef just reshows the tooltip rather than hiding like it should. I've tried to get around it by using this code: http://wow.pastecode.com/1625 but there seems to be a bug where i |
| 01:14.39 | Kaso | sorry for long text :> |
| 01:14.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-69-202-110-177.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 01:20.11 | Mikk | it got truncated at "a bug where i" |
| 01:22.20 | Kaso | i have to click links 3 times to get a tooltip occationally. |
| 01:35.08 | AnduinLothar | Chemical bomb, chemical bomb... Eyes, mouth, skin exploding; Everybody dead. |
| 01:36.53 | Vallerius | bah, stupid test server down... i just wrote about 3 pages of code which i now get to watch break miserably when the servers come back up |
| 01:39.49 | AnduinLothar | sooo.. why doesn't GetNumTradeSkills() and GetTradeSkillInfo work for enchanting.. |
| 01:40.48 | AnduinLothar | oh duh... it's a Craft.. |
| 01:41.19 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Valgrind (n=bortas@c-fd2ee253.539-1-64736c22.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:41.45 | Rallion | I hate Enchanting. From a UI perspective. |
| 01:42.04 | AnduinLothar | why are tradeskills and crafting different.. |
| 01:46.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:47.02 | AnduinLothar | does enchanting have headers? |
| 01:47.32 | AnduinLothar | yup, craftType |
| 01:48.43 | Shadowd|nax | Vallerius: what are you going to be using the BATTLEGROUND comm chan for? ( just wondering ) |
| 01:51.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-69-202-110-177.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 01:51.25 | cladhaire | wow.. how'd i leave this channel |
| 01:51.26 | cladhaire | lol =) |
| 01:51.41 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 01:52.01 | cladhaire | any WoWI staff here and not afk? |
| 01:54.40 | AnduinLothar | wtf.. why is the Craft frame used for pets... |
| 01:55.19 | Shadowd|nax | training pets |
| 01:55.51 | AnduinLothar | right but why does that use the same window as enchanting.. |
| 01:55.56 | AnduinLothar | and why doesn't enchanting use the tradeskill window.. |
| 01:57.12 | Shadowd|nax | it's blizzard |
| 02:02.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:03.59 | AnduinLothar | oh good GetTradeSkillReagentItemLink... i knew that had to exist |
| 02:06.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 02:07.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 02:08.14 | AnduinLothar | look, it's a cair |
| 02:09.33 | AnduinLothar | ~pat Cairenn |
| 02:09.34 | purl | ACTION pats Cairenn and says "Nicely Done!" |
| 02:10.02 | AnduinLothar | ~pet Cairenn |
| 02:10.03 | purl | ACTION reaches over and pets Cairenn on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!" |
| 02:18.31 | AnduinLothar | why isn't the pet stable lod.. |
| 02:23.24 | Mikk | isn't everyone a hunter? |
| 02:27.28 | ckknight | I'm not |
| 02:27.36 | Shadowd|nax | ^ |
| 02:27.45 | gnorlish | i got a hunter to 56 |
| 02:27.48 | gnorlish | it was so boring i quit |
| 02:29.29 | AnduinLothar | does GetItemInfo work on enchant links? |
| 02:34.47 | AnduinLothar | that'd eb a no |
| 02:39.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SilverShadow (n=silversh@69-2-90-22.wan.networktel.net) |
| 02:42.25 | esp|Syn | im no hunter |
| 02:42.32 | esp|Syn | im an ickle gnome mage |
| 03:02.38 | MentalPower | GetItemInfo doesn't work on enchant links, but enchant links fdon't cause disconnects either |
| 03:03.22 | AnduinLothar | good to know |
| 03:03.35 | AnduinLothar | but you can only get the texture if you know the enchant |
| 03:03.55 | AnduinLothar | or it's prolly the same as the plans |
| 03:04.11 | MentalPower | the textures for most enchants is the same |
| 03:04.22 | MentalPower | Spell-Holy-2 or somesuch |
| 03:06.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip68-106-219-78.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:06.43 | MentalPower | wb |
| 03:06.52 | AnduinLothar | had to swap wireless routers |
| 03:07.06 | AnduinLothar | too much loot lag |
| 03:08.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-163-12.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:12.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh wow |
| 03:12.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | 1.12 has auto self cast |
| 03:12.49 | Mr_Rabies2 | built in |
| 03:12.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | nice. |
| 03:13.34 | AnduinLothar | no target? |
| 03:13.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | or enemy |
| 03:14.01 | AnduinLothar | doesn't queue any more? |
| 03:14.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | you can toggle it |
| 03:14.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | from old functionality to new, with a keybind or part of interface opt |
| 03:14.37 | AnduinLothar | can you hotkey it? |
| 03:14.44 | Shadowd|nax | yeah |
| 03:14.52 | AnduinLothar | i mean shift-click |
| 03:14.57 | AnduinLothar | right-click |
| 03:15.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | doubt right click, but maybe shift |
| 03:15.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | lemme look |
| 03:15.40 | AnduinLothar | they really like absorbing our functionality |
| 03:15.44 | Mr_Rabies2 | you can toggle auto self cast or use the self cast keybindings |
| 03:15.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | eh, it's for the best in most situations |
| 03:16.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Krishnak (n=Diamant@chello062178075048.26.11.vie.surfer.at) |
| 03:16.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | you can almost guarantee it won't break between versions if it's built in |
| 03:16.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | and don't have to worry about people maintaining it |
| 03:16.34 | AnduinLothar | self cast hasn't broken in over a year |
| 03:16.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | i was generalizing :P |
| 03:17.11 | AnduinLothar | just means we haveto update,.. |
| 03:18.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | not if there's no one left to update it though :P |
| 03:18.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge subsonic (n=SubSonic@adsl-66-159-195-16.dslextreme.com) |
| 03:18.18 | Mr_Rabies2 | some addons just die out cause no one wants to maintain them and the author's long gone |
| 03:18.46 | AnduinLothar | CastOptions has that func in Cosmos, along with a ton of other functionality |
| 03:19.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | i know |
| 03:19.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | i use it and love it |
| 03:20.29 | MentalPower | hmm... youcan now showyour own name in the 3D world |
| 03:24.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | yep |
| 03:24.31 | subsonic | Is there a mod to replace the mob's health above their head (activated with the v key) with something smaller? |
| 03:24.39 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 03:26.26 | Shadowd|nax | Can't modify things in the 3D world |
| 03:29.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | whether you can and whether you're supposed to are different things :P |
| 03:29.22 | Industrial | ;) |
| 03:30.26 | Shadowd|nax | Well, considering that they are making efforts to prevent you from doing it, it's not really something i'd suggest ;) |
| 03:30.58 | Mr_Rabies2 | there's a lot of things that i do that they're taking efforts to prevent me from doing :P |
| 03:31.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|work (n=andrews@203.100.211.197) |
| 03:34.15 | zespri_work | what mods out there dislpay your health/mana/rage/energy as circular bars? |
| 03:34.36 | AnduinLothar | sux, my lvl 6 priest cant take a lvl 9... i remember my pally taking guys 5 lvls above him.. |
| 03:34.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | that's cause priests don't get to be easy mode until level 20 |
| 03:35.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | zespri, archud. |
| 03:35.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | nurfed |
| 03:35.32 | MentalPower | statrings by iriel |
| 03:35.34 | zespri_work | cool thanks. if anything else pops to mind please let me know |
| 03:35.49 | AnduinLothar | :( i just wanna get to lvl 10 for have an alt to dissenchant |
| 03:36.09 | MentalPower | you only need level 5 |
| 03:36.16 | AnduinLothar | orly? |
| 03:36.17 | subsonic | I thgout nurfed was a compilation |
| 03:36.22 | AnduinLothar | i thought it was 10 |
| 03:36.28 | MentalPower | nop, just 5 |
| 03:36.35 | AnduinLothar | well screw lvling |
| 03:37.27 | subsonic | so nurfed and statrings will show the circular rings |
| 03:38.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | also archud |
| 03:38.41 | zespri_work | MentalPower, how is itemizer going? =) |
| 03:39.01 | MentalPower | so far so good |
| 03:39.09 | MentalPower | I have thestorage component done |
| 03:39.13 | MentalPower | nowIjust need a GUI |
| 03:39.18 | zespri_work | glad to hear. does it do anything already, or not yet? |
| 03:39.18 | AnduinLothar | whats it do? |
| 03:39.23 | MentalPower | (and anew keyboard) |
| 03:39.53 | MentalPower | its a LL replacement that gives better search options for about the same storage space |
| 03:40.00 | zespri_work | Anduin, it's auctioneer's team response to LootLink, KC_Items ItemMatrix and such |
| 03:40.10 | AnduinLothar | oic |
| 03:40.27 | AnduinLothar | use the same storage as Auc? |
| 03:41.10 | MentalPower | erm... notreally,separate storagesystem |
| 03:41.21 | MentalPower | grr I hate this keyboard |
| 03:41.31 | AnduinLothar | so the items get stored twice? |
| 03:41.47 | AnduinLothar | or is auc just $ data |
| 03:41.57 | MentalPower | auc is all $$ data |
| 03:42.00 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 03:42.06 | MentalPower | Itemizer stores theitem's properties |
| 03:42.10 | AnduinLothar | ic |
| 03:43.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | muahaha |
| 03:43.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm wrecking these noobs on the ptr |
| 03:43.52 | MentalPower | BTW, Itemizer is the reasonIneededhelp with that de-serialization function |
| 03:44.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | just killed two tier 2 rogues on my blue'd druid with a few purples |
| 03:44.07 | MentalPower | Mr_Rabies2: which PTR? |
| 03:44.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | wsg |
| 03:44.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | so, all of them :] |
| 03:44.20 | AnduinLothar | eu i assume |
| 03:44.30 | AnduinLothar | us is down atm |
| 03:44.38 | MentalPower | no it isin't |
| 03:44.42 | MentalPower | I'mon it ATM |
| 03:44.43 | AnduinLothar | oi, was a sec ago |
| 03:45.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh, us |
| 03:45.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm on us |
| 03:45.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | the pve server on my druid |
| 03:45.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | cause he started on a pve server :x |
| 03:46.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh wait i didn't have any purples equipped i was in my cat gear |
| 03:46.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | lols |
| 03:46.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | those rogues were terrible |
| 03:47.02 | AnduinLothar | well ptr's a good chance to test a new class at 60 |
| 03:47.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | yep :] |
| 03:47.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | i got to the point where i could drop mages and rogues easily on a premade warrior a couple ptrs ago |
| 03:47.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | played him for about 8 hours straight |
| 03:49.36 | AnduinLothar | so.. How does gatherer track nodes.. |
| 03:50.07 | AnduinLothar | WorldFrame OnMouseUp tooltip scan before loot? |
| 03:50.23 | MentalPower | its a really crappy/old system of parsing the chat text for the results of a loot |
| 03:50.45 | AnduinLothar | what would eb a better way? |
| 03:50.58 | MentalPower | I'm planning on changing it to work based on LOOT_OPENED events |
| 03:51.08 | MentalPower | and SPELLCAST_START |
| 03:51.32 | AnduinLothar | and grab what, the spell name? |
| 03:51.56 | AnduinLothar | how would do you get the object name |
| 03:52.57 | AnduinLothar | I'm actually learning a lot writing this GameAmp addon... like how to get any kind of info from the game :) |
| 03:52.58 | MentalPower | prolly a tooltip scan, haven't researched myoptions there yet |
| 03:53.11 | MentalPower | GameAmp? |
| 03:53.28 | AnduinLothar | getting paid to write their data mining addon |
| 03:54.10 | AnduinLothar | there's working on a thottbot/alla competition site |
| 03:55.27 | MentalPower | yet another |
| 03:55.56 | MentalPower | themorethemerrier I guess :) |
| 03:56.06 | Industrial | like wowhead.com |
| 03:56.07 | Industrial | ? |
| 03:57.18 | Industrial | I wana a tshirt with FOR THE HORDE |
| 03:57.26 | Industrial | :p |
| 04:02.18 | Mikk | MentalPower / AnduinLothar: You do get a "You perform herbalism on <foo>" chat msg |
| 04:02.25 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 04:02.37 | AnduinLothar | have to have it localized then |
| 04:02.39 | MentalPower | yes, thats whatgatherer uses |
| 04:02.45 | MentalPower | exactly |
| 04:02.53 | Mikk | how is this bad? o.O |
| 04:03.00 | AnduinLothar | localization sux |
| 04:03.06 | MentalPower | you have to maintain the localization |
| 04:03.12 | MentalPower | somethingyou can't do yourself |
| 04:03.31 | Mikk | ahh ok i see.. you want item IDs for the flowers or something |
| 04:03.48 | MentalPower | bingo |
| 04:03.59 | Mikk | couldn't you do that by hooking into the loot box? |
| 04:04.12 | Mikk | trigger on "you perform herbalism on" <-- easy with globalstrings, no? |
| 04:04.12 | MentalPower | exactly what I'vebeen saying |
| 04:04.16 | Mikk | and then the next loot |
| 04:04.17 | Mikk | oh |
| 04:04.28 | Mikk | *palmface* |
| 04:04.30 | MentalPower | without the you perform... trigger |
| 04:04.38 | MentalPower | with a SPELLCAST_STARTtrigger |
| 04:04.52 | AnduinLothar | still ahve to localize that tho |
| 05:04.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 05:04.55 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge is World of Warcraft Mod Dev Discussions |
| 05:04.56 | Mikk | nah |
| 05:04.59 | Mikk | this is fine for v1.0 |
| 05:07.08 | AnduinLothar | so... what happens if i click a mob while mining? wont it think I looted it's corpse? |
| 05:08.10 | Mikk | i remember testing something like that |
| 05:08.38 | Mikk | though my mod works off of "You perform..." so there's no delay |
| 05:08.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:09.04 | AnduinLothar | is that after you finish casting? |
| 05:09.07 | Mikk | (no, i don't give a shit about localization, it's in-gulid =)) |
| 05:09.07 | Mikk | yea |
| 05:09.23 | Shadowed | well that was fun |
| 05:09.32 | AnduinLothar | spose i can tiemstamp |
| 05:09.45 | AnduinLothar | and use begcasttime+spellcasttime |
| 05:09.57 | Mikk | you need to allow for lag though |
| 05:10.01 | Mikk | several seconds worth >.< |
| 05:10.26 | AnduinLothar | so you think i can finish casting, and click a unit before loot pops? |
| 05:10.39 | Mikk | probably yes |
| 05:10.58 | Mikk | given enough server lag |
| 05:11.01 | AnduinLothar | is there lag between you perform and loot pop? |
| 05:11.20 | Mikk | i don't remember any more =( |
| 05:11.33 | AnduinLothar | well thankfully: OPEN_LOCK_SELF = "You perform %s on %s."; |
| 05:11.51 | Mikk | There's half a dozen other strings like tat |
| 05:12.14 | Mikk | with the same format in english, i mean |
| 05:14.01 | AnduinLothar | and which event is that? |
| 05:14.18 | Mikk | just ctrl-f for "you perform" |
| 05:14.45 | Mikk | what i'm saying is that i don't know which one of those strings is the right one to use |
| 05:14.48 | AnduinLothar | i have the string.. need the event |
| 05:14.55 | Mikk | either will obviously work in english, since they're identical |
| 05:15.29 | Mikk | worst case, it's OPEN_LOCK_SELF for chests, but something else for gathering skills |
| 05:15.34 | AnduinLothar | SPELLPERFORMGOSELFTARGETTED = "You perform %s on %s."; |
| 05:15.53 | AnduinLothar | SIMPLEPERFORMSELFOTHER = "You perform %s on %s."; |
| 05:16.34 | Mikk | Chances are the translator slave will translate them all exactly the same, of course. |
| 05:16.59 | Mikk | Then again what am I complaining about.. just test for all of them |
| 05:17.04 | Mikk | problem solved |
| 05:17.59 | AnduinLothar | so.... what event is it? |
| 05:19.06 | Mikk | buh. sorry. i'll check |
| 05:19.31 | Mikk | CHAT_MSG_SPELL_SELF_BUFF |
| 05:19.54 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:21.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@d26-185.rb.lax.centurytel.net) |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Krishnak (n=Diamant@chello062178075048.26.11.vie.surfer.at) |
| 05:33.32 | Mikk | Whoop de doo. IgnoreMore-v1.0-beta1 up on wowi beta interface listings. |
| 05:33.35 | Mikk | Well.. it will be. |
| 05:35.34 | Dolby-wowi | owww |
| 05:35.59 | Mikk | pardon, i was being quick =) |
| 05:36.51 | Mikk | thanks ;) |
| 05:36.55 | MentalPower | lol |
| 05:37.10 | Dolby-wowi | :) |
| 05:37.48 | kergoth | Mikk: ignoremore? |
| 05:38.08 | Mikk | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=5186 |
| 05:38.30 | kergoth | oh sweet |
| 05:38.42 | kergoth | i can finally drop friend/ignoreshare and that other extended ignore addon from my damn set |
| 05:38.45 | kergoth | thank god |
| 05:38.47 | kergoth | ~praise Mikk |
| 05:38.49 | purl | All hail Mikk! |
| 05:39.11 | Mikk | (note, doesn't handle >49 friends. just ignores) |
| 05:39.42 | kergoth | i have hardly any friends, tons of ignores |
| 05:39.48 | kergoth | what does this say about me? :P |
| 05:39.54 | Mikk | hehe |
| 05:39.56 | AnduinLothar | antisocial? |
| 05:39.58 | Mikk | similar situation here tbh =) |
| 05:40.32 | kergoth | antisocial, somewaht, in that people annoy me, but more that i'm just a bitter, cynical, impatient bastard |
| 05:40.37 | kergoth | ~kergoth |
| 05:40.38 | purl | you are probably Chris Larson, an open source developer, often in the embedded Linux arena. Currently working for Computer Sciences Corporation in Scottsdale, AZ. Contact at kergoth@handhelds.org Core dev / architect on the BitBake, OpenZaurus, and OpenEmbedded projects. Maintainer of hte tslib project. Often the resident BOFH, an often an ass. Newbies and ... |
| 05:40.47 | kergoth | dangit, still cuts off |
| 05:40.55 | kergoth | that was supposed to be "Newbies and the clueless beware." |
| 05:42.33 | kergoth | purl: no, kergoth is Chris Larson, an open source developer currently working for Openedhand Ltd (o-hand.com), remotely, from AZ. Core developer on OpenZaurus, OpenEmbedded/BitBake, and TSlib. Often the resident BOFH, and often an ass. Newbies and the clueless beware. |
| 05:42.34 | purl | okay, kergoth |
| 05:43.12 | gnorlish | that dude sounds like an asshole |
| 05:43.41 | Cairenn | he certainly can be by times :p |
| 05:43.43 | kergoth | quite |
| 05:44.05 | kergoth | honestly, i'm a really nice guy unless you do something like ask me something without reading the manual first |
| 05:44.09 | kergoth | if you do, god help you |
| 05:44.11 | kergoth | :P |
| 05:45.24 | MentalPower | RTFM FTW! |
| 05:52.53 | MentalPower | hey,I'd like to know how far is Auctioneer from the most downloaded and top favorites list |
| 05:52.58 | MentalPower | any way I can find out? |
| 05:53.12 | Mikk | I don't get why it's wrong to ask for features for an addon in the WoWI addon comments section... |
| 05:53.31 | Cairenn | Mikk: who says it is? |
| 05:53.51 | Mikk | The big red nasty text when you click "Comments" beneath an addon |
| 05:54.14 | Cairenn | doesn't stop you though |
| 05:55.13 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 05:55.27 | AnduinLothar | i specificly say on my portal that i only check the comments |
| 05:57.20 | Cairenn | MentalPower: look at the file stats, compare to the front page info :p |
| 05:57.49 | MentalPower | yeah, but it doesn't tell me position :P |
| 05:58.54 | Mikk | AnduinLothar: There. I even added a recommendation of ChatIgnore to my mod page ;) |
| 05:59.38 | MentalPower | oh, I'd also like to point out a bug (or at least an inconsistency) on the BBCode formatting in the AddOn descriptions |
| 06:00.10 | AnduinLothar | :D |
| 06:00.21 | Cairenn | MentalPower: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18 |
| 06:00.28 | AnduinLothar | owned |
| 06:00.42 | AnduinLothar | ~redirect Mentalpower |
| 06:00.42 | purl | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) |
| 06:00.55 | Cairenn | sure, you could say it in here, but then it's too easy for us to forget |
| 06:01.00 | MentalPower | completelymissed tat forum |
| 06:01.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elessdy (n=no@d26-185.rb.lax.centurytel.net) |
| 06:03.01 | Cairenn | well, they say that you should learn something new every day, so there's your lesson for today |
| 06:03.15 | Shadowed | 89 WSG games going on test! |
| 06:19.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0850.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:20.42 | kergoth | Mikk: will we see a friendmore next? :) at least having it common across the realm would be handy, regardless of length limit |
| 06:21.58 | Mikk | muttermumble special cases mumble bloody 49 slots in unknown states mutter |
| 06:22.13 | kergoth | hehe. blech |
| 06:23.59 | Mikk | actually, if you don't need immediate notification, it'd be possible to scan the people in the friend list with /who to detect online status |
| 06:24.17 | Mikk | would take bloody forever though =/ |
| 06:24.48 | Mikk | haha |
| 06:24.50 | AnduinLothar | dirty horde druid crpt up on me while i was testing |
| 06:24.58 | kergoth | hah |
| 06:24.58 | Mikk | probably easier to just add and remove people from the system friend list in batch |
| 06:25.00 | AnduinLothar | fight lasted 7 min |
| 06:25.05 | AnduinLothar | at the end i won with 300hp |
| 06:25.12 | AnduinLothar | both completely out of mana |
| 06:25.22 | AnduinLothar | he even busted out his grimore int hemiddle and summoned a skelly |
| 06:25.42 | AnduinLothar | which i proply ignored since it was only hitting me for 100 |
| 06:26.23 | AnduinLothar | had enough time to use repentance like 4 times... every time he came out of cat or bear form, heh |
| 06:27.17 | Kirov | ~seen krka |
| 06:27.22 | purl | krka is currently on #wowi-lounge (13h 44m 14s). Has said a total of 59 messages. Is idling for 8h 35m 54s, last said: 'useful mods are boring to write :)'. |
| 06:30.17 | MentalPower | Posted! http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26229#post26229 |
| 06:31.05 | AnduinLothar | so, are we sure all the gathering profesions are the strings used in the "You perform %s on %s." messages? |
| 06:31.22 | AnduinLothar | I tested Mining and it works marvelously |
| 06:31.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|work (n=andrews@203.100.211.197) |
| 06:32.00 | AnduinLothar | even tested clickign something else while casting and it works correctly with the timestamps |
| 06:32.20 | Kirov | Anyone tried syncing events between clients by watching netstats and GetGameTime()? |
| 06:33.15 | AnduinLothar | mmm, i tried |
| 06:33.17 | MentalPower | HERB_GATHER_STRING="You perform Herb Gathering on" |
| 06:33.19 | MentalPower | ORE_GATHER_STRING="You perform Mining on" |
| 06:33.20 | MentalPower | TREASURE_GATHER_STRING="You perform Opening on" |
| 06:33.27 | MentalPower | so the answer is yes :) |
| 06:33.32 | AnduinLothar | oh, it's Herb Gathering? |
| 06:33.40 | MentalPower | thats from the Gatherer\Localization.lua |
| 06:33.42 | AnduinLothar | is Herb Gathering in the prof list? |
| 06:33.47 | MentalPower | dunno |
| 06:33.57 | Mikk | Herb Gathering? |
| 06:34.03 | Mikk | o.O |
| 06:34.13 | MentalPower | oh, and theres a bug with power crystals in Un'Goro |
| 06:34.44 | Mikk | nope. "You perform Herbalism on" |
| 06:35.01 | MentalPower | the chatline for those currently is "You perform Opening - No Text on X" |
| 06:35.10 | MentalPower | blizz bug |
| 06:35.46 | Mikk | *pokepoke* |
| 06:35.51 | Mikk | Where does "Herb Gathering" come from? |
| 06:36.34 | Kirov | AnduinLothar - you tried that method? how well does it work? |
| 06:37.03 | Mikk | The problem is that we need verification in other localizations |
| 06:37.06 | MentalPower | http://wow.pastecode.com/1683 |
| 06:37.16 | MentalPower | thats the entire file |
| 06:38.04 | AnduinLothar | Mining works |
| 06:38.09 | MentalPower | english starts at line 581 |
| 06:38.16 | AnduinLothar | i dotn have herbalism to test |
| 06:38.29 | MentalPower | get it :P |
| 06:39.01 | AnduinLothar | mmm, prolly can on my alt, where's the herb guy in sw? |
| 06:39.09 | AnduinLothar | or goldshire |
| 06:39.16 | MentalPower | druid districtin SW |
| 06:39.23 | MentalPower | haunted house in Goldshire |
| 06:39.23 | AnduinLothar | kthx |
| 06:39.40 | Mikk | AnduinLothar / MentalPower: Ok, I tested now. "Herb Gathering". |
| 06:39.45 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 06:39.51 | Mikk | "You perform Herb Gathering on Peacebloom." |
| 06:39.52 | AnduinLothar | sad day |
| 06:40.11 | AnduinLothar | why are you happy |
| 06:40.24 | AnduinLothar | yes we know you were right |
| 06:40.31 | AnduinLothar | but it'd be easier if you were wrong |
| 06:40.36 | MentalPower | true |
| 06:40.41 | Mikk | Weird though... I'm 99% certain I tested it for herbalism also |
| 06:40.46 | MentalPower | but I'll worry about it when I get there |
| 06:42.04 | Mikk | Ummm wait |
| 06:42.24 | Mikk | Work backwards from known flowers? |
| 06:42.44 | Mikk | Trigger on "You perform x on y" where y is a known flower (from scanning known item IDs) |
| 06:42.57 | Mikk | That way you can learn what X should be |
| 06:43.01 | Mikk | And understand unknown flowers also |
| 06:43.04 | Mikk | ? |
| 06:43.13 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 06:43.17 | MentalPower | ? |
| 06:44.06 | Mikk | Are you just being bastards now or do I suck at explaining as usual? =) |
| 06:44.29 | AnduinLothar | wha? |
| 06:44.38 | MentalPower | huh? |
| 06:44.48 | MentalPower | actually I get it |
| 06:45.11 | MentalPower | its just that theres a corner case where the first hebs that you gahter could be unknown to the program |
| 06:45.17 | Mikk | aye |
| 06:45.32 | Mikk | just don't stat those? |
| 06:45.40 | MentalPower | store for later parsing? |
| 06:45.44 | Mikk | works also |
| 06:45.51 | AnduinLothar | ew |
| 06:46.02 | Mikk | keep in mind that it'll be the first herbs you gather after installing gatherer |
| 06:46.06 | Mikk | you can cache it in SVs after that |
| 06:46.08 | AnduinLothar | this gets worse and worse |
| 06:46.15 | Mikk | scrap the storage |
| 06:46.39 | Shadowed | so apparently HOT's no longer stop appearing in the combat log if you're at 100% health |
| 06:47.00 | AnduinLothar | this a good thing? |
| 06:47.08 | Shadowed | ...and now they do |
| 06:47.10 | Shadowed | ...okay |
| 06:47.22 | Shadowed | test server is acting funny again :( |
| 06:48.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@d26-185.rb.lax.centurytel.net) |
| 06:49.32 | Mikk | Mneh.. scanning tooltips is sounding better and better |
| 06:49.42 | Mikk | SilverLeaf. Requires Herbalism. |
| 06:49.45 | Mikk | ^ lookie, tradeskill name |
| 06:49.50 | AnduinLothar | i'm already scannign tooltips |
| 06:50.50 | Mikk | Then you can basically just look for CHAT_MSG_SPELL_SELF_BUFF with the flower's name in it |
| 06:50.58 | Mikk | bit crude perhaps but |
| 06:51.11 | AnduinLothar | ERR_USE_LOCKED_WITH_ITEM_S = "Requires %s"; -- %s is the item required |
| 06:51.27 | AnduinLothar | ITEM_REQ_SKILL = "Requires %s"; -- Required skill to use the item |
| 06:51.41 | AnduinLothar | LOCKED_WITH_ITEM = "Requires %s"; -- A game object is locked with an item |
| 06:51.48 | AnduinLothar | LOCKED_WITH_SPELL = "Requires %s"; -- A game object is locked with a spell |
| 06:52.24 | Shadowed | Quick question. How would you add a Texture and a Fontstring to a frame thats set in the layer? Trying to add another column to WorldStateScoreTemplate but don't want to copy and paste the whole frame definition :/ |
| 06:52.44 | Mikk | that's set in the layer? |
| 06:53.19 | Shadowed | Yeah, they set the columns in the layer as artwork |
| 06:53.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 06:53.31 | Shadowed | Cleaning up the score frame so it has a seperate column for server |
| 06:54.07 | Mikk | I wonder if you can use runtime created objects as templates.... |
| 06:54.41 | AnduinLothar | so.. LOCKED_WITH_SPELL prolly? |
| 06:54.57 | Mikk | AnduinLothar: My money would go on "ITEM_REQ_SKILL" |
| 06:55.02 | AnduinLothar | since Herbalism is the spell you cast to open it.. |
| 06:55.10 | AnduinLothar | hmm |
| 06:55.27 | AnduinLothar | LOCKED_WITH_SPELL_KNOWN = "Requires %s"; -- A game object is locked with a spell the player knows |
| 06:55.43 | AnduinLothar | SPELL_EQUIPPED_ITEM = "Requires %s"; |
| 06:55.50 | AnduinLothar | SPELL_EQUIPPED_ITEM_NOSPACE = "Requires %s"; |
| 06:56.01 | AnduinLothar | SPELL_FAILED_REQUIRES_SPELL_FOCUS = "Requires %s"; |
| 06:56.19 | Mikk | erhmmmm |
| 06:56.20 | Mikk | dude |
| 06:56.25 | Mikk | have you ever tried modifying globalstrings? |
| 06:56.26 | Mikk | i just did |
| 06:56.52 | AnduinLothar | -- AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED -- DO NOT EDIT! |
| 06:56.55 | Mikk | It's LOCKED_WITH_SPELL_KNOWN |
| 06:57.06 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 06:57.10 | Mikk | Which I set to "Bah %s" |
| 06:57.11 | AnduinLothar | rly? |
| 06:57.16 | Mikk | My tooltip now shows "Bah Herbalism" |
| 06:57.20 | AnduinLothar | and it changes the tooltip!? |
| 06:57.22 | Mikk | ya |
| 06:57.24 | MentalPower | yes |
| 06:57.25 | AnduinLothar | wow.. |
| 06:57.33 | MentalPower | thiswas discussed months ago |
| 06:57.40 | AnduinLothar | i didn't know the c code read those.. |
| 06:57.46 | Mikk | makes sense though |
| 06:57.53 | MentalPower | you can also change the +Blah Intellect to whateveryou want |
| 06:58.00 | AnduinLothar | that makes finding which on so much easier |
| 07:02.48 | Elkano | but there are some things that don't work for some reason, eg LEVEL isn't used to set the unit level string in tooltips :/ blame Blizzard :/ |
| 07:09.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-162-9.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 07:09.45 | AnduinLothar | and yes it's OPEN_LOCK_SELF |
| 07:09.51 | krka|work | http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/006229.html |
| 07:12.19 | Mikk | AnduinLothar: that's opening boxes? |
| 07:12.23 | Mikk | s/boxes/chests/ |
| 07:15.05 | AnduinLothar | also used for harvesting |
| 07:15.12 | AnduinLothar | at least herbalism |
| 07:15.26 | Mikk | ehh? |
| 07:15.30 | AnduinLothar | and mining |
| 07:15.41 | Mikk | ahh the actual looting |
| 07:18.07 | Mikk | rofl |
| 07:18.19 | Mikk | i haven't played this warlock since the warlock talent review |
| 07:19.47 | AnduinLothar | so you're a no tallent warlock? |
| 07:21.19 | Mikk | aye |
| 07:21.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 07:22.25 | AnduinLothar | there we go, i win |
| 07:22.34 | AnduinLothar | wow, that was painful |
| 07:23.18 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Wulf4 (i=wulf@wulf.eu.org) |
| 07:32.32 | AnduinLothar | :) but it's done, yay |
| 07:33.49 | AnduinLothar | and my herbalism is at 7 yay |
| 07:34.01 | Mikk | haha |
| 07:34.10 | Mikk | herbalism is probably the easiest skill to level |
| 07:34.18 | Mikk | i've re-taken it at 60 |
| 07:34.23 | AnduinLothar | i know, they're everywhere.. |
| 07:34.49 | AnduinLothar | so much easier than ming |
| 07:34.51 | AnduinLothar | mining |
| 07:35.27 | Mikk | not to mention blacksmithing |
| 07:35.27 | AnduinLothar | and skining requires killing things.. |
| 07:35.54 | AnduinLothar | smithing is almost as expensive as enchanting |
| 07:36.13 | AnduinLothar | and the quests are worse wisth less payoff |
| 07:37.04 | krka|work | herb + skinning FTW |
| 07:37.08 | Elkano | but skinnning is a lot easier than mining, at least if you level it from the beginning... you kill these things anyways |
| 07:37.11 | AnduinLothar | i have to go drive an hour and then back b4 i can sleep |
| 07:37.46 | AnduinLothar | left my cell charger at my parents house >.< |
| 07:38.38 | krka|work | driving when tired is dangerous |
| 07:38.47 | krka|work | almost worse than driving drunk |
| 07:38.52 | AnduinLothar | i slept till 1, i'm fine |
| 07:39.03 | AnduinLothar | been staying up till 4 or 5 anyway |
| 07:39.22 | AnduinLothar | heck, i haven't even been up 12 hours yet |
| 07:39.59 | AnduinLothar | least my auctions are selling.. |
| 07:40.26 | AnduinLothar | note to self: never try to buy and sell cards |
| 07:43.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 07:52.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=mirc@dslb-088-064-181-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:57.09 | ckknight | could it be possible that comments on my addons' pages get emailed to me? |
| 07:57.26 | Kirov | erm |
| 07:57.33 | Kirov | ui.worldofwar.net does that |
| 07:57.43 | Kirov | as does wowi |
| 07:58.09 | ckknight | it does? |
| 07:58.12 | ckknight | how do I enable it? |
| 07:58.18 | zinor | i think every site does |
| 07:58.19 | Kirov | Not sure |
| 07:58.20 | zinor | not sure if curse does |
| 07:58.21 | zinor | :s |
| 07:58.23 | Kirov | curse doesn't |
| 07:58.28 | zinor | k every site but curse :) |
| 07:58.38 | ckknight | zinor, get your act together. |
| 07:58.39 | ckknight | :-P |
| 07:58.42 | zinor | my bad :s |
| 07:58.47 | zinor | itll be int he new one |
| 08:00.53 | ckknight | my heart's been broken before, zinor |
| 08:59.43 | Shadowed | ...strange |
| 08:59.48 | Shadowed | blizzard has broken CHAT_MSG_MONSTER_YELL on test |
| 09:00.21 | zenzelezz | how so? And what is that actually, like a player yell but used by NPCs? |
| 09:00.58 | Shadowed | CHAT_MSG_MONSTER_YELL is an NPC yell, like Onyxia when you engage her or in Alterac Valley when somebody captures a resource. |
| 09:01.27 | Shadowed | And it just doesn't seem to trigger. It used to be that it's called when you capture something thats owned by the enemy faction, but even after disabling all mods and trying to catch the event it only triggers the sound but no text/event. |
| 09:01.50 | zenzelezz | I always thought that was just a normal yell; but it would make sense to have separate ones for PCs and NPCs |
| 09:02.05 | Shadowed | it looks like a normal yell, but a seperate event |
| 09:02.24 | Shadowed | o |
| 09:02.30 | Shadowed | i'm not even sure how blizzard managed to break that |
| 09:02.38 | zenzelezz | I once enabled "Yells" in a new chat window to see NPC shouts, but didn't get anything - I suppose that could explain why |
| 09:02.55 | Shadowed | It's under Other Messages -> Creature |
| 09:03.14 | zenzelezz | ah, thanks :) |
| 09:03.42 | Shadowed | no problem! |
| 09:03.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de) |
| 09:04.00 | s|loup | hi |
| 09:04.13 | zenzelezz | morning |
| 09:07.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 09:10.30 | Shadowed | anyone remember the name of the mod that shows how many times you've killed somebody on the BG scoreboard? |
| 09:11.00 | Elkano | HonorFu does iirc |
| 09:11.11 | Elkano | at least for WSG and AB |
| 09:11.52 | s|loup | does anyone knows a good site for discordart tutorial? |
| 09:11.57 | Shadowed | thanks |
| 09:13.51 | Shadowed | bah, they just copy and paste half of the stuff :/ |
| 09:15.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=mirc@dslb-088-064-181-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:05.10 | AnduinLothar | wow.. the items they give you on the test server are hawt.. |
| 10:05.56 | AnduinLothar | and they prespec you.. |
| 10:06.58 | AnduinLothar | wow... and the interface options are full screen.. |
| 10:07.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADC594.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:11.59 | AnduinLothar | ... the floating combat text has entering and leaving text msgs.. wond what event they use.. |
| 10:13.43 | AnduinLothar | th itunes remote only shows track title |
| 10:15.49 | AnduinLothar | MusicPlayer_PlayPause() |
| 10:16.12 | AnduinLothar | and look, a platform="mac" tag for bindings |
| 10:17.59 | AnduinLothar | wait a sec... divine favor works on holy shock? since when.. |
| 10:22.53 | AnduinLothar | and the itunes popup doesn't pop up when the track changes normally, only if you change it with a command |
| 10:23.15 | AnduinLothar | and it's a screen overlay so you cant interact or modify it |
| 10:44.26 | zenzelezz | has there been demand for an iTunes thingie, or was that just something they made up on their own? |
| 10:44.46 | AnduinLothar | ha |
| 10:44.55 | AnduinLothar | there have been 3 or 4 music players |
| 10:45.01 | AnduinLothar | each one is a hack |
| 10:45.08 | AnduinLothar | and they break them regularly |
| 10:45.39 | AnduinLothar | I even made a wTunesSkin iTunes skin for one |
| 10:45.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 10:46.06 | AnduinLothar | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-659-1-wtunes-skin.html |
| 10:46.22 | AnduinLothar | and i actually have a semi working version here at home |
| 10:46.53 | AnduinLothar | that uses unix file links to put your library in the addon folder and read all your track files |
| 10:46.58 | zenzelezz | nice |
| 10:47.09 | AnduinLothar | but it's still a hack |
| 10:47.15 | AnduinLothar | and only works on mac |
| 10:47.58 | AnduinLothar | and it's on the cosmos and wiki faq... so yes... high demand |
| 10:49.59 | zenzelezz | I just somehow pictured them integrating something on their own, instead of letting it interact with an outside application :) Either way I suppose it's pretty nice if you like to listen to "your own" music rather than the WoW music |
| 10:51.04 | AnduinLothar | i almost always do, unless i need to sqweeze a few more fps out |
| 11:16.07 | AnduinLothar | wow... UnitParty("player") is completely broken |
| 11:16.14 | AnduinLothar | UnitInParty* |
| 11:16.26 | zenzelezz | how so? |
| 11:16.34 | AnduinLothar | it always returns nil |
| 11:18.00 | AnduinLothar | that's messed up.. |
| 11:18.05 | wereHamster | 'GetNumPartyMembers() > 0' |
| 11:18.12 | AnduinLothar | UnitInParty("party1") works |
| 11:18.44 | AnduinLothar | but UnitInParty("player") and UnitInParty("target") when targetting yourself both return nil |
| 11:20.54 | krka|work | maybe it just compares with party1-4 |
| 11:21.49 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 11:21.57 | AnduinLothar | works if you target a party member |
| 11:22.51 | krka|work | that's what i am saying |
| 11:23.32 | krka|work | maybe it's not broken, just misunderstood |
| 11:23.48 | AnduinLothar | UnitInRaid works on player.. |
| 11:23.53 | krka|work | UnitInParty maybe means unit is one of party1-4 |
| 11:24.00 | krka|work | well, is one of the raidX you? |
| 11:24.06 | AnduinLothar | :( |
| 11:24.08 | krka|work | (i have never been in a raid, so i dont know) |
| 11:24.39 | krka|work | ? |
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| 11:30.41 | s|loup | yes player is also one of raidX |
| 11:31.55 | krka|work | function UnitReallyInParty(unit) return UnitInParty(unit) or UnitIsUnit("player") end |
| 11:32.25 | s|loup | UnitReallyInParty()? oO |
| 11:32.58 | zenzelezz | custom function... was rather obvious I thought |
| 11:33.44 | AnduinLothar | cept you aren't always in a party.. |
| 11:34.02 | s|loup | pls check if GetNumPartyMembers() > 0 before UnitIsUnit("player") returns true |
| 11:34.22 | s|loup | oh and UnitIsUnit needs 2 params |
| 11:34.31 | krka|work | ah, sorry |
| 11:34.49 | krka|work | function UnitReallyInParty(unit) return GetNumPartyMembers() > 0 and (UnitInParty(unit) or UnitIsUnit(unit, "player")) end |
| 11:35.12 | krka|work | can't you say that you're always in party with yourself though? |
| 11:35.19 | s|loup | lol |
| 11:35.24 | AnduinLothar | it's not really a problem to just use GetNumPartyMembers() > 0 |
| 11:35.27 | s|loup | i have a 1-man party |
| 11:35.38 | AnduinLothar | it' sjust dumb that UnitInParty doesn't work |
| 11:35.45 | krka|work | imo, it works |
| 11:36.44 | s|loup | for party i understand it because unitids for partymembers are seperated from player |
| 11:37.16 | s|loup | but if UnitInRaid doesnt work for player that is more stupid i think |
| 11:38.35 | krka|work | UnitInRaid works, afaik |
| 11:38.42 | AnduinLothar | imo it's ambiguous |
| 11:38.53 | krka|work | nah, not really |
| 11:39.22 | AnduinLothar | what it really means is UnitIsInYourParty |
| 11:39.31 | krka|work | function UnitInParty(unit) for i = 1,4 do if UnitIsUnit(unit, "party" .. i) then return true end end return false end |
| 11:39.46 | krka|work | same thing for raid |
| 11:39.55 | krka|work | function UnitInRaid(unit) for i = 1,40 do if UnitIsUnit(unit, "raid" .. i) then return true end end return false end |
| 11:46.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@85.24.45.30) |
| 11:46.46 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar ? |
| 11:51.18 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 11:51.47 | Maldivia | the UnitInParty("player") was reported ealier |
| 11:51.52 | Maldivia | no response to it though |
| 11:52.19 | Maldivia | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=413115 |
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| 11:59.24 | AnduinLothar | guess slouken needs prodding |
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| 12:11.11 | AnduinLothar | hmmm learn all sorts of interesting things when you turn on sky debug.. |
| 12:13.07 | AnduinLothar | like addons spamming |
| 12:13.25 | AnduinLothar | general stupidness you never knew was happenign cause it's hidden, heh |
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| 13:02.34 | End | krka|work: about the UnitInParty(), it used to work with "player" afaik. it got changed for some reason recently o_O |
| 13:02.57 | krka|work | yeah that's a weird change |
| 13:03.31 | End | also, the link I posted in AL's thread: http://wdn.wowinterface.com/detail.php?v=11125464&t=lcompare&i=13 |
| 13:04.42 | End | and IIRC, the C interface for UnitInParty() still uselessly exists |
| 13:08.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mery (i=metelman@p54AEDE76.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:08.38 | krka|work | in any case, it's pretty easy to do a workaround, no big issue imo |
| 13:08.51 | End | my only issue is the sudden change |
| 13:09.00 | End | (that makes little sense to me) |
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| 13:48.32 | Kaso | Anyone know off the top of their heads where the Raid Target Icons are, to save me a job looking ? |
| 13:48.52 | Mikma | yes they are propably in .mpq |
| 13:49.08 | Kaso | well that narrows it down, thanks |
| 13:49.11 | Kaso | :> |
| 13:49.13 | Renyun | lol |
| 13:49.20 | Mikma | np, my pleasure <3 |
| 13:51.16 | Mery | Interface\\TargetingFrame\\UI-RaidTargetingIcons |
| 13:51.29 | Kaso | why thank you |
| 13:51.52 | Mery | UnitPopup.lua |
| 13:52.06 | Mery | are the texcoord's also |
| 13:52.29 | Kaso | Wonderful |
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| 13:53.02 | Kaso | ah lovely theres a nice table i can use |
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| 14:06.39 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:10.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaso| (n=Jonathan@host81-159-3-52.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:21.34 | Mikma | can anyone think of a good wow-slogan for sticker? :) |
| 14:21.42 | Mikma | i thought "Rogues do it from behind" |
| 14:23.16 | Beladona | "How's my healing?" |
| 14:23.41 | Mikma | hehe |
| 14:23.54 | Mikma | "Call 1-800-I-CARE" |
| 14:24.13 | Beladona | "Beware, I melt faces" |
| 14:24.47 | Beladona | so, windows live is off to a good start with that yahoo integration.... |
| 14:25.16 | Beladona | logged into yahoo, checked my contacts, logged out. Added them in msn, checked again, none are showing online, even though they are |
| 14:25.42 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 14:26.15 | krka|work | "my other car is a mecha-strider"? |
| 14:27.16 | Rallion | I think you can already get "Rogues do it from behind"...but maybe that's just a t-shirt |
| 14:28.22 | Tain | Although it isn't relevant to this I did see a bumper sticker yesterday that I loved. "Cheer up, emo kid." |
| 14:29.54 | Mikma | lol, brilliant |
| 14:30.03 | Rallion | that's awesome |
| 14:30.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 14:30.37 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:32.19 | Rallion | I'd like the Penny Arcade one that says "Guns don't kill people, kids who play video games kill people" |
| 14:32.46 | Beladona | "My Tauren is bigger than your Tauren" |
| 14:33.41 | Beladona | I would buy a sticker that says "I only use purple or better" |
| 14:43.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Priam (n=vnabet@pc.yacast.fr) |
| 14:44.18 | Priam | hi |
| 14:44.22 | End | hihi |
| 14:45.14 | Priam | somebody can help me |
| 14:45.24 | End | maybe |
| 14:45.33 | Priam | ok thanks |
| 14:46.35 | Priam | search how to loop nearby enemies |
| 14:48.05 | End | TargetNearestEnemy() will cycle through near enemies on each call (important to note that it is limited to tab target distance because...well..that's exactly what Tab -does- is call that) |
| 14:48.26 | Priam | Ok (wowwiki ;) |
| 14:48.27 | Priam | but |
| 14:49.17 | Priam | with this function i can loop endlessly |
| 14:49.48 | End | and you want to know when you have looped through all of them? |
| 14:49.56 | Priam | yes |
| 14:50.26 | End | hmm |
| 14:54.46 | Rallion | You really can't |
| 14:55.19 | Rallion | you can guess, but it wouldn't be very reliable |
| 14:55.26 | End | Well, at least, you shouldn't be able to :P |
| 14:56.29 | Rallion | can the UI get the target icon applied to a unit? |
| 14:56.40 | Rallion | if so then you could do it if you're a leader |
| 14:56.46 | krka|work | yes |
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| 15:06.19 | Priam | is it possible to save any parameter (not the name because enemies can have the same) and then retrieve the first target with this parameter ? |
| 15:07.29 | kaso| | Do you mean like, theres two mobs, call Fred you want to target a partiular one of them |
| 15:09.25 | Priam | no, I want loop nearest enemies and I want to know when I have looped through all of them. But it's impossible with TargetNearestEnemy() function |
| 15:27.24 | kaso| | without putting a raidtarget on one of them i cant really think of a way to do that. |
| 15:27.47 | kaso| | assuming we cant count of them all being differnt named/leved |
| 15:30.26 | Priam | k |
| 15:30.31 | Priam | thank you |
| 15:30.42 | Priam | bye all |
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| 15:53.45 | Mery | well you could let your pet (if you have one) let attack one of the mobs. |
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| 16:39.54 | Cairenn | hullo Iriel |
| 16:46.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:47.53 | Iriel | How is wowiland today? |
| 16:49.22 | Cairenn | doing okay at this location |
| 16:53.31 | zinor | omg wowisland |
| 16:53.33 | zinor | i like it! |
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| 17:08.32 | Kaelten | I get to spend 4 hours at a time making phone calls this week :s |
| 17:15.57 | Hexarobi | flying mounts! awesome |
| 17:16.25 | krka | seems like they basically just hover over the ground :/ |
| 17:17.00 | Hexarobi | no, you can control them like swimming |
| 17:17.04 | Hexarobi | full freedom |
| 17:17.28 | krka | ah, just bad video then |
| 17:17.32 | Hexarobi | they run on the ground, then you hit the jump key to take flight, where they hover over the ground and give you freedom to fly |
| 17:17.33 | krka | didn't really show off that |
| 17:17.38 | Hexarobi | or you can run off a cliff |
| 17:17.49 | Hexarobi | that would normally be a fall |
| 17:21.51 | Beladona | that sounds cool |
| 17:21.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 17:22.05 | Beladona | should make you actually run for a certain distance before you can take off |
| 17:22.41 | Mikma | next funny moment provided by Elkano: |
| 17:22.42 | Mikma | <2015> <Elkano> *pain* http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=418113&p=1&tmp=1#post418113 |
| 17:26.31 | Kirov | mwahahaha |
| 17:27.05 | Kirov | I love when people answer their own question with out realizing it for a couple hours. |
| 17:27.46 | krka | Beladona: like in SMB3! |
| 17:28.14 | krka | the flying mount texture should be a leaf |
| 17:31.29 | Hexarobi | i think you have to do a flying jump to take off |
| 17:31.35 | Hexarobi | but once in the air i think u can stop and hover |
| 17:36.08 | Rallion | most of the dragons in the game hover anyway |
| 17:36.28 | Rallion | it's gonna be funny to watch flying mounts flying into things though |
| 17:36.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:43.29 | kaso| | CreateFrame is pretty cool now i've gotten down to writing an addon using it |
| 17:44.20 | Mikk | createframe kicks utter ass |
| 17:44.23 | Mikk | wait i'll show you =P |
| 17:44.37 | Beladona | is there a ceiling? |
| 17:44.40 | Beladona | flight ceiling |
| 17:44.47 | Beladona | there has to be, but I wonder how high |
| 17:45.24 | zenzelezz | I'd imagine something like flight path height max |
| 17:45.32 | zenzelezz | (at their highest, not average) |
| 17:46.02 | Mikk | kaso|: http://81.233.236.26/EtchASketch.zip |
| 17:46.13 | Mikk | pre-inhouse-alpha but i think you can see where it's going =) |
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| 17:46.25 | kaso| | lemme take a lookie |
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| 18:05.36 | gnorlish | ~ckknight |
| 18:15.55 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 18:17.41 | Kirov | EtchASketch? |
| 18:18.04 | Mikk | My in-game UI designer |
| 18:18.08 | Mikk | (to be) |
| 18:18.08 | Kirov | ah |
| 18:18.23 | Kirov | How's IgnoreMore? |
| 18:18.26 | Mikk | working |
| 18:18.29 | Cide | MoreIgnore! |
| 18:18.40 | Mikk | it's up on wowi's beta section |
| 18:18.42 | Cide | sounds more fun, I think :P |
| 18:19.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 18:30.44 | Shadowed | Hmm, how would you replace a blizzard frame with your own? since it looks like just replacing it and using the same name wont work. |
| 18:31.02 | Mikk | what are you trying to do? |
| 18:31.15 | Mikk | "replace" can mean many things =P |
| 18:31.43 | End | I wonder if replacing the userdata would have the intended effect o_O |
| 18:32.02 | Shadowed | Gave up with trying to add a new column to WorldStateScoreTemplate without replacing it, so just want to replace the entire thing and add a custom column :p |
| 18:32.11 | Shadowed | replace = reimplement the whole frame with my own |
| 18:33.07 | End | oh, well, it probably responds to events to do its stuff |
| 18:33.08 | Mikk | You tried replacing the global variable? |
| 18:33.17 | Mikk | End: arf.. good point |
| 18:33.24 | End | don't forget to turn the event handling off on the old one |
| 18:34.09 | Mikk | I think replacing the list view part of it might work |
| 18:34.16 | Mikk | The event handling is probably in the outer "border" frame |
| 18:34.40 | Shadowed | Don't believe it responds to any events, it's a virtual frame |
| 18:34.40 | Mikk | Though you'd have to check framexml to verify |
| 18:34.48 | Mikk | You can't really replace the virtual |
| 18:35.00 | Shadowed | hmmmm |
| 18:35.05 | End | oh, virtual, right |
| 18:35.06 | Mikk | It'll be instantiated as something else long before your addon is loaded |
| 18:35.07 | Shadowed | Can you modify what something inherits through the API? |
| 18:35.13 | Mikk | no |
| 18:35.16 | Mikk | when created, it's done |
| 18:35.30 | End | think of it like a template that you make a copy off of |
| 18:35.40 | Mikk | because that's exactly what happens |
| 18:35.40 | Mikma | http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php/topic,1724.0.html :P |
| 18:36.41 | Shadowed | So basically, the only choice is to copy the entire scoreboard stuff and the entire LUA stuff with the new name |
| 18:36.50 | Shadowed | well there goes that idea |
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| 18:38.34 | Shadowed | Think i'll just go with my idea that makes people who use GetBattlefieldStat hate me |
| 18:52.31 | Shadowed | blast you XML |
| 19:07.54 | Mikk | http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Mikk/Dev too shiny? |
| 19:08.17 | Mikk | I'm trying to save us from http://www.wowwiki.com/Boilerplate:API_Documentation >.< |
| 19:08.42 | Shadowed | I'd probably cry if we went to that |
| 19:09.15 | Shadowed | It looks good besides the wow-apiicon.gif on the top though |
| 19:09.27 | Shadowed | doesn't look like something that'd really fit |
| 19:10.11 | Mikk | Just trying to accomplish some kind of color splotch to liven things up |
| 19:10.37 | Shadowed | went to the boilerplate one :p |
| 19:10.47 | Shadowed | Just seems very blocky |
| 19:11.02 | Mikk | You're free to diss it however much you like. It's not mine =P |
| 19:11.16 | Mikk | Seems very visually messy and hard to read to me |
| 19:11.42 | Shadowed | yeah thats what i was thinking. whats wrong with the current one we have? |
| 19:11.54 | Mikk | Nothing really |
| 19:11.55 | Mikk | imo |
| 19:12.03 | Shadowed | well thats true |
| 19:12.17 | Mikk | I made mine as a counter example to a post on the wiki village pump that pointed at that monstrosity |
| 19:12.44 | Mery | Frame:SetScript("OnEvent", myfunction) - how do i get the "event" as an arg in myfunction(event)? |
| 19:12.46 | Shadowed | who is Fsdfs by the way? |
| 19:12.50 | Mikk | "Mind" |
| 19:13.09 | Shadowed | Should just be able to do |
| 19:13.12 | Mikk | He's been contributing on and off to API pages if you look at his history |
| 19:13.17 | Shadowed | function myfunction( event ) end |
| 19:13.38 | Mikk | function() myfunction(event) end |
| 19:13.52 | Shadowed | That'd require me to know where to look to find his history, which i don't know :p |
| 19:13.55 | Mikk | haha |
| 19:14.55 | Shadowed | Personally, i like whats currently there. but if it's a choice between yours and the boilerplate one. i'll take yours in a second :p |
| 19:15.07 | Mery | thanks! (i tired function(event) myfunction(event) end - well close but wrong :) ) |
| 19:16.17 | End | no no |
| 19:16.23 | End | function() myfunction(event) end |
| 19:16.30 | End | Frame:SetScript("OnEvent", function() myfunction(event) end) |
| 19:16.59 | End | (the first one I gave is the argument you send, you want the second line I gave you) |
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| 19:18.43 | Mery | ya i got it :) |
| 19:19.02 | Mikk | Shadowed: reload |
| 19:19.43 | Shadowed | Looks the same to me |
| 19:19.47 | Mikk | o.O |
| 19:19.51 | Mikk | cogwheel didn't move left? |
| 19:20.18 | Shadowed | nope |
| 19:20.34 | Mikk | what browser? |
| 19:20.47 | Shadowed | IE7 and Firefox 1.5 |
| 19:21.05 | Mikk | Erhmm.. _I_ have ff1.5 |
| 19:21.08 | Mikk | ahd IE6 |
| 19:21.37 | End | it moved left for me |
| 19:21.43 | Shadowed | lets suppose I looked at the wrong history! |
| 19:21.50 | Mikk | haha |
| 19:22.03 | Shadowed | Figured it was IE7 complaining about how it was done again :p |
| 19:22.28 | Shadowed | Any way to move the texbox closer to the icon though? |
| 19:22.38 | Mikk | probably |
| 19:22.55 | Mikk | i'm doing it the ugly way now |
| 19:23.08 | Mikk | can probably do it in a nicer way =) |
| 19:23.21 | Shadowed | looks fine besides that! |
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| 19:33.57 | Shadowed | ~seen Vallerius |
| 19:34.11 | purl | vallerius is currently on #wowi-lounge. Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 17h 57m 18s, last said: 'bah, stupid test server down... i just wrote about 3 pages of code which i now get to watch break miserably when the servers come back up'. |
| 19:34.11 | Mikk | BWHAHAHA |
| 19:34.11 | Mikk | i hate IE |
| 19:34.19 | Shadowed | what'd it do now Mikk? |
| 19:34.30 | Mikk | well the page does the right thing in Opera and FF |
| 19:34.35 | Mikk | not so much in IE |
| 19:34.37 | Thrae | I hate websites that require IE. |
| 19:34.45 | Mikk | At least not IE6 |
| 19:34.53 | Mikk | What happens to the cogwheel in IE7? |
| 19:35.42 | Mikk | &%#&#%&#%?#?% CRAP BROWSER |
| 19:35.45 | Shadowed | same as in Firefox |
| 19:37.48 | Mikk | hmmmmmmm wait i remember this |
| 19:38.04 | Mikk | i've had IE ignore my div heights before |
| 19:41.42 | Shadowed | half the wiki doesn't look that good in IE anyway :p |
| 19:42.17 | Kirov | Who uses IE anymore anyways? It's not like it comes with any operating system ... oh wait |
| 19:42.32 | Gryphen | I hate FF |
| 19:42.34 | Mikk | FF > all |
| 19:42.43 | Mikk | Just needs a couple of plugins =P |
| 19:42.49 | Shadowed | I prefer using IE just of how they do a few things |
| 19:42.53 | Kirov | Gryphen - what do you use? |
| 19:42.58 | Gryphen | ie7 |
| 19:43.00 | krka | links >> all |
| 19:43.03 | Shadowed | but i'll use both if i'm doing HTML work or i know the site is insecure :p |
| 19:43.26 | Kirov | I use firefox w/ mouse gestures |
| 19:43.31 | Mikk | same =) |
| 19:43.37 | Mikk | i got used to gestures in opera |
| 19:43.41 | Mikk | now i can't live without them |
| 19:43.45 | Kirov | same |
| 19:44.03 | Mikk | opera kicks ass |
| 19:44.07 | Kirov | I keep trying to use mouse gestures in the windows file explorer |
| 19:44.46 | Rallion | I actually tried some global windows mouse gesture program once |
| 19:44.51 | Mikk | My only gripe with Opera is that the "Web Developer" FF plugin doesn't exist for opera ^^ |
| 19:45.06 | Rallion | not as useful as I had hoped, I messed up way too often |
| 19:47.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [ven] (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-75-016.ewetel.net) |
| 19:47.56 | dao_at_work | <3 web developer |
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| 20:03.42 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
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| 20:06.02 | Kebinusan | So I have this old out of date mod that was last updated marchish... It seems that every time I logon or reloadui the main frame for the mod pops up... Ive kinda just ignored it for a while as it started happening after a patch or possibly two a go, but if anyone has a hint on what I need to do to fix it.. it'd be appreciated |
| 20:06.36 | Cairenn | delete it? |
| 20:06.44 | End | put hidden="true" in the frame declaration |
| 20:07.03 | Kebinusan | thanks |
| 20:07.10 | End | np |
| 20:12.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252) |
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| 20:14.47 | Shadowed | since when could hunter pets daze? |
| 20:15.12 | Mikk | since when you let them hit you in the back? |
| 20:15.20 | Mikk | running? |
| 20:15.29 | Shadowed | don't ever remember them dazing in PVP |
| 20:15.36 | Kirov | Shadowed - pig? |
| 20:15.42 | Shadowed | owl |
| 20:15.55 | Kirov | I forget what the owl specific one is |
| 20:16.03 | Kirov | I know the pig has a daze |
| 20:16.18 | Shadowed | pig has charge |
| 20:17.02 | Kirov | which a short stun afaik |
| 20:17.06 | Kirov | er, with |
| 20:17.12 | Shadowed | same mechanic of warrior charge :p |
| 20:17.22 | Kirov | I use a cat and only a cat, so I don't really know |
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| 20:25.15 | Kirov | What's the word to describe how lua hash tables don't retain their order? |
| 20:25.53 | krka | there's a word for that? |
| 20:26.20 | Kirov | well, a word to describe that something doesn't retain it's ordered state |
| 20:27.10 | Shadowed | Hmm, would a bug with the message an event returns go to interface forums or test forums? |
| 20:27.14 | Shadowed | ( on test ) |
| 20:27.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairen1 (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:29.04 | Mikk | Kirov: unordered? |
| 20:29.16 | End | that's what I was thinking of |
| 20:29.20 | Kirov | volatile |
| 20:29.25 | Mikk | hm no |
| 20:29.29 | End | I wouldn't say volatile |
| 20:30.07 | krka | it's not that lua hash tables don't retain order |
| 20:30.12 | krka | it's that they never had an order to begin with |
| 20:30.23 | krka | what about callign it non-deterministic? |
| 20:33.37 | Rallion | Entropic is actually an excellent word for it, but it's not often used in that context |
| 20:34.25 | Mikk | I think 99% of the non-english-as-first-language population won't understand that, and probably something like 75% of the ones that actually do speak english as a first langauge =P |
| 20:35.31 | krka | non-deterministic is the best word, imo :) |
| 20:38.05 | End | hmm |
| 20:39.37 | dao_at_work | They are deterministic. |
| 20:40.09 | dao_at_work | They are simply non-reliably sorted :) |
| 20:40.46 | dao_at_work | the word escapes my tongue |
| 20:41.57 | End | given the hash table size, the hashing algorithm, and the data, you should be able to reproduce the order :P |
| 20:42.17 | End | unfortunately, I doubt working backwards would work too well |
| 20:42.17 | Iriel|working | Though you dont know what the size IS |
| 20:42.35 | End | doesn't it double each time or something like that? |
| 20:42.39 | Iriel|working | Yes but. |
| 20:42.39 | Iriel|working | 8-) |
| 20:42.55 | Iriel|working | If you know every operation that happened to a table then you CAN reproduce the order |
| 20:42.59 | Iriel|working | and derive the size |
| 20:43.01 | End | ahh yeah |
| 20:43.05 | Iriel|working | If you're just given a table, then you dont know. |
| 20:43.08 | End | they don't shrink, do they? |
| 20:43.09 | Kirov | But why |
| 20:43.26 | Iriel|working | They can shrink |
| 20:43.30 | End | hmm |
| 20:43.35 | Tain | You always have to factor in shrinkage. |
| 20:43.46 | Kirov | Iriel - so, do you know the correct wordage to describe the non-consistant nature of a hash table's order? |
| 20:43.48 | End | I wonder what determines when it shrinks |
| 20:43.56 | End | it probably shrinks slowly |
| 20:44.11 | Iriel|working | Kirov: volatile, perhaps? |
| 20:44.19 | Kirov | that's what I said! |
| 20:44.24 | Kirov | no one else liked that one |
| 20:44.26 | Iriel|working | though it's not quite the right one |
| 20:44.30 | Iriel|working | it's the best I can come up with |
| 20:44.40 | Iriel|working | End: Tables try and stay at least half full |
| 20:45.15 | krka | i still say non-deterministic is the best |
| 20:45.22 | Iriel|working | But it is deterministic |
| 20:45.41 | krka | yeah, but no one is actually going to keep track of it :P |
| 20:45.43 | Iriel|working | so that's no better than volatile, and i'd say it's worse, since non-deterministic doesn't capture the variability over time |
| 20:46.17 | krka | also, you have to know the inner workings of the hash table / hash functions et.c. for it to be deterministic |
| 20:46.31 | End | well |
| 20:46.31 | krka | no wait... that's wrong |
| 20:46.35 | dao_at_work | pseudorandomly perturbed. |
| 20:46.36 | Iriel|working | I like java's HashTable description: |
| 20:46.37 | Iriel|working | This class makes no guarantees as to the order of the map; in particular, it does not guarantee that the order will remain constant over time. |
| 20:46.58 | krka | how about "randomly ordered"? |
| 20:46.59 | dao_at_work | No, determinism is an aspect of the system itself, regardless of your knowledge of it's working. |
| 20:47.02 | Iriel|working | It's not random though |
| 20:47.10 | Kirov | psuedorandom is fairly accurate |
| 20:47.10 | krka | yeah, i realized that dao_at_work |
| 20:47.26 | Iriel|working | The only problem I have with volatile is that it implies the ordering can change at any moment |
| 20:47.27 | krka | random doesn't have to mean random as in statistical |
| 20:47.36 | dao_at_work | Iriel|working: can it? |
| 20:47.55 | Kirov | volatile over time? |
| 20:47.57 | Rallion | disordered |
| 20:47.58 | dao_at_work | I'd imagine it probably uses something simple like a right/left leaning pass across all the buckets |
| 20:48.03 | Tain | Why not just say not-necessarily-static. |
| 20:48.14 | Iriel|working | if you dont CHANGE a table, the elements remain in the same order |
| 20:48.17 | dao_at_work | so that depending on what's added and removed later the ordering can be completely different. |
| 20:48.30 | Iriel|working | and removing an existing key doesn't change the order of the remainig ones |
| 20:48.31 | dao_at_work | They should fix that. |
| 20:48.37 | Kirov | Ordered by hash, not by contents? |
| 20:48.47 | krka | Iriel|working, unless it shrinks the table too? |
| 20:48.48 | dao_at_work | I like random. |
| 20:48.52 | Iriel|working | if that wasn't the case, pairs wouldn't work. |
| 20:49.10 | Tain | Usually hash just gets you ordering brownies. |
| 20:49.34 | krka | hmm... are you saying that if a > b for one config of the table, then a > b for all configs of the table? |
| 20:49.35 | dao_at_work | sure there's a generating function so it's not statistically random, but it's random in the same sense as every language's random() function is. |
| 20:49.49 | Iriel|working | krka Ordering in the sense of 'iteration' |
| 20:49.56 | krka | yes |
| 20:50.05 | Iriel|working | the keys in lua tables are NOT ordered in any pre-determined way |
| 20:50.14 | krka | that's the only ordering we have for lua tables, right? |
| 20:50.28 | Iriel|working | Well, the array part IS strictly ordered |
| 20:50.33 | Iriel|working | the hash part isnt |
| 20:50.51 | dao_at_work | but they are, in fact, ordered according to the hashing algorithm, which is predetermined :) |
| 20:51.06 | Iriel|working | yes |
| 20:51.13 | Iriel|working | but the table will be re-hashed if it changes size |
| 20:51.19 | dao_at_work | sure |
| 20:51.38 | Iriel|working | And lua tables only shrink when you add something new to them (I knew that memory would return eventually) |
| 20:51.45 | Iriel|working | Contradictory as that sounds |
| 20:51.50 | dao_at_work | Anyhow, I think "random" is the most apt and easily-understood description for the sortal of the keys. |
| 20:52.05 | Iriel|working | I prefer 'unpredictable' to random, but yeah |
| 20:52.24 | dao_at_work | Ok, I like that too. |
| 20:52.27 | Iriel|working | and the rule that as long as you dont add a new key to a table, the ordering remains constant |
| 20:52.30 | dao_at_work | did you suggest that before and I just didn't notice? |
| 20:52.37 | Kirov | I prefer jelly donuts |
| 20:52.44 | dao_at_work | yeah, they should fix that security hole. |
| 20:53.00 | Iriel|working | Security hole? |
| 20:53.00 | Kirov | security hole? |
| 20:53.14 | dao_at_work | stable hash key sorting allows DOS attacks. |
| 20:53.32 | Iriel|working | How? |
| 20:53.39 | Iriel|working | That sounds like something you read in a book once |
| 20:53.40 | Kirov | Because DOS is a problem is wow? |
| 20:53.43 | dao_at_work | you can overload the hashing algorithm by providing data in an order designed to take the maximum amount of time to rehash. |
| 20:53.43 | Iriel|working | and you're mis-applying it here |
| 20:53.56 | Iriel|working | while true; do x=x+1; end |
| 20:53.57 | Iriel|working | is much better |
| 20:54.12 | dao_at_work | Sure, it may not apply to WOW |
| 20:54.15 | Iriel|working | I fail to see how stable hash key sorting within an enclosed programming environment is a problem. |
| 20:54.15 | krka | while 1 do end is best |
| 20:54.26 | dao_at_work | but it does apply to Lua, which is a general purpose language. |
| 20:54.36 | Iriel|working | It applies to ways you may choose to use lua |
| 20:54.46 | dao_at_work | if you allow users to input stuff |
| 20:54.55 | dao_at_work | and that stuff will go into a hash at some point in time |
| 20:54.59 | Iriel|working | If you allow remote users to input stuff on your dime |
| 20:55.14 | dao_at_work | and that hash is calculated in a predictable manner |
| 20:55.18 | dao_at_work | you've got a hole. |
| 20:55.30 | krka | wouldn't you run out of space before it starts becoming too slow to rehash? |
| 20:55.51 | dao_at_work | either way it's a denial of service. |
| 20:56.08 | Iriel|working | You could prepend a fixed string on the front of every key, that would take care of it if the string was random |
| 20:56.12 | Iriel|working | either way it's not a weakness of lua |
| 20:56.13 | krka | oh, i thought we were talking about disk operating system :/ |
| 20:56.19 | Iriel|working | it'd be poor protocol or implementation design |
| 20:56.22 | dao_at_work | lol |
| 20:56.39 | dao_at_work | sure it is a weakness of lua |
| 20:56.45 | Kirov | hehe |
| 20:56.49 | dao_at_work | it's a problem with the hashing algorithm |
| 20:56.53 | Iriel|working | And to be honest, the overhead involved would make it a very inefficient DOS |
| 20:57.13 | Iriel|working | That goes back to my comment of 'bad implementation design' |
| 20:57.25 | Kirov | krka - that would put a new twist on the idea of a "DOS attack" |
| 20:57.40 | Iriel|working | The fact that you know HOW lua's tables work means you're better off than it being vendor dependent |
| 20:57.53 | dao_at_work | sure, but if glibc's malloc() caused a guaranteed memory leak, you wouldn't call it the fault of the people using malloc(), would you? |
| 20:58.18 | dao_at_work | it'd be a fault of the language |
| 20:58.32 | End | library, not language |
| 20:58.43 | dao_at_work | yeah yeah, it was the best example I could think of |
| 20:59.01 | krka | in luas case, it's actually the language :P |
| 20:59.08 | dao_at_work | I grant that hash sorting attacks are not the biggest fish to fry here |
| 20:59.23 | Iriel|working | The argument you're trying to make is idiotic |
| 20:59.25 | krka | or language implementation, more likely |
| 20:59.31 | Iriel|working | You can't fault a language for doing what it says it's going to do |
| 20:59.41 | Iriel|working | You can only fault people who use it wrong |
| 20:59.47 | dao_at_work | Please don't resort to personal attacks. |
| 20:59.57 | Iriel|working | if glibc's malloc's specification said it leaked memory, then it wouldn't be broken. |
| 21:00.04 | Iriel|working | I attacked your argument, not you. |
| 21:00.14 | dao_at_work | That's pretty specious, man. |
| 21:00.26 | krka | that's why i document everything i code with "This may or may not work as intended" |
| 21:00.30 | dao_at_work | Of course it'd be broken. |
| 21:00.47 | Iriel|working | It wouldn't be useful, but it wouldn't be broken,. |
| 21:00.51 | Iriel|working | Broken means doesn't work as documented. |
| 21:01.00 | Iriel|working | Not works exactly as described. |
| 21:01.08 | Kirov | krka - it's also why computer programs have eulas |
| 21:01.12 | dao_at_work | Now, if they documented the hashes to say something specific like "this will introduce a potential security hole into your program", then you'd have a point. |
| 21:01.34 | krka | the documentation can't draw all the conclusions for you |
| 21:01.35 | Kirov | krka - "We might fuck over your computer, it might not ... but we're warning you now so you have a harder time sueing us." |
| 21:01.38 | dao_at_work | There's a difference in providing a potentially dangerous tool and labelling it as such |
| 21:01.41 | krka | you're being silly dao_at_work |
| 21:01.59 | dao_at_work | and providing a faulty tool with no mention of its problems. |
| 21:02.38 | dao_at_work | But like I said, it's not a huge problem. |
| 21:02.55 | Iriel|working | It's only a problem if you use it for the wrong thing. |
| 21:03.01 | End | actually, I don't think it is a security hole at all. I think it's an issue with the tool (in this case the language) user not testing possible edge cases |
| 21:03.19 | Iriel|working | It's like saying that eggs are somehow faulty because they dont provide sufficient power to illuminate a lightbulb, and that isn't documented as an explicit deficiency. |
| 21:03.23 | dao_at_work | I've demonstrated already that if user input is ever stored in a hash structure, it is a problem. |
| 21:03.25 | Qzot | Is this the right channel to ask about issues related to WoW addon development. |
| 21:03.32 | End | if security is such a concern, you aren't going to do minimal testing oh go lalala |
| 21:04.06 | dao_at_work | There's no way to "test" the problem, though. |
| 21:04.07 | Qzot | s/development./development?/ |
| 21:04.35 | Qzot | Ouch. I'm allergic to those things right now. |
| 21:04.42 | Qzot | Hypersensitivity. |
| 21:04.46 | krka | also, if a remote attacker tried to DOS another persons lua invironment, he'd have to know the memory location of the keys created |
| 21:04.52 | krka | which seems unlikely to come by |
| 21:04.56 | dao_at_work | how so? |
| 21:05.03 | dao_at_work | it's an algorithmic complexity attack. |
| 21:05.14 | dao_at_work | you're not stack-smashing or anything like that. |
| 21:05.27 | Kirov | Qzot - we're talking about throwing DOS floppy disks at eachother while standing on small tables made out of cannabis. |
| 21:05.29 | krka | don't you have to insert special keys, to do collisions? |
| 21:05.30 | Iriel|working | Can you explain to me how the overhead of getting the input INTO the system isn't going to outweigh the hashing ovehead? |
| 21:06.09 | dao_at_work | input overhead would be O(1), whereas hash sorting is O(whatever hash algorithm used) |
| 21:06.19 | krka | you thought you had to insert specially choosen keys for it to work |
| 21:06.25 | Iriel|working | Well, lua hashes strings as they are created |
| 21:06.34 | Qzot | I have experienced a WoW weirdness. I would *really* appreciate it if someone was able to characterize the problem for me, even if it doesn't get fixed. |
| 21:06.46 | krka | no way to know where the other client is gonna place his strings |
| 21:07.03 | dao_at_work | you just attack the sorting algorithm, you don't care where it gets stored. |
| 21:07.11 | krka | and a string is hashed by it's memory address |
| 21:07.24 | Kirov | Qzot - we can multitask, fire away |
| 21:07.25 | dao_at_work | for any sorting algorithm, there will always be a worst-case scenario for input. |
| 21:07.26 | Qzot | From a horde toon: "/who z-or 60-60" returns 24 results. |
| 21:07.26 | krka | argh, its |
| 21:07.45 | krka | there is sorting involved? hm |
| 21:07.51 | Iriel|working | krka: Actually not, the hashes are I believe value based. |
| 21:07.52 | krka | i know too little about lua hash tables, i think |
| 21:07.54 | dao_at_work | hashing is a funny way of saying sorting. |
| 21:07.55 | Qzot | Seconds later, "/who z-org 60-60" returns 50 results (but the interface says 49). |
| 21:08.06 | End | it depends on what it is hashing I think |
| 21:08.06 | Beladona | homeward I go, seeya later |
| 21:08.14 | Qzot | Seconds later, "/who z-or 60-60" returns 24 results again. |
| 21:08.14 | Iriel|working | Qzot: Out of interest, what zones ARE the 24 results of z-or from? |
| 21:08.20 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 21:08.30 | Qzot | They don't include Orgrimmar, for one. |
| 21:08.36 | End | if it is a table, I think it just uses the pointer |
| 21:08.54 | Iriel|working | Yes, it does, it uses the pointer for tables, and lightuserdata |
| 21:08.57 | krka | Iriel|working? really? that seems like a silly way to implement it, why not simply go by address? that's unique and everything |
| 21:08.57 | End | string, uses the already calculated hash |
| 21:09.20 | Iriel|working | krka: because you need the string's hash to give it an address (remember the string table) |
| 21:09.21 | dao_at_work | lua seriously hashes on pointer data? |
| 21:09.30 | Iriel|working | for pointer values, it uses pointer data |
| 21:09.36 | Iriel|working | almost no lua values ARE pointer values |
| 21:09.37 | dao_at_work | that's silly. No point in hashing then. |
| 21:09.51 | End | er |
| 21:09.54 | Iriel|working | dao_at_work - You are very strange and i'm going to stop listening to you, sorry. |
| 21:09.56 | krka | yes there is, you have to reduce to the correct domain |
| 21:09.57 | End | what?? |
| 21:10.00 | dao_at_work | what? |
| 21:10.11 | End | dao_at_work, I'm not sure I understand you. |
| 21:10.14 | Iriel|working | Qzot: So, anyway, is there any consistency in the zones returned by z-or ? |
| 21:10.15 | dao_at_work | the whole idea of hashing is to provide a very fast way to access individual members of a data set. |
| 21:10.32 | krka | Iriel|working, you mean you hash a newly created string in order to check if you already have it in your string-table? |
| 21:10.37 | dao_at_work | so that's what the hashing algorithm does; it stores them in a way to retrieve a given member with the fewest comparisons possible. |
| 21:10.42 | End | and? |
| 21:10.46 | End | you access tables by pointer |
| 21:10.48 | Iriel|working | krka: Yes. The hash is used for searching in the string hash table |
| 21:10.50 | Qzot | Iriel: That's what I'm asking. I see no pattern. |
| 21:11.01 | End | all you are ever given is a "pointer" |
| 21:11.02 | dao_at_work | if you're hashing on a memory address, then you're hashing basically randomly, so you're not hashing at all. |
| 21:11.06 | Iriel|working | Qzot: That doesn't mean I wont see a pattern. |
| 21:11.13 | Iriel|working | 8-) |
| 21:11.15 | Kirov | Qzot - what happens if you do z-o |
| 21:11.17 | Qzot | Which is why I ask. |
| 21:11.20 | krka | Iriel|working, but then it wouldn't need to be hashed once you're already working with strings that already are Lua strings? |
| 21:11.36 | Iriel|working | krka: They're not RE-hashed, part of the string data-structure is its pre-computed hash |
| 21:11.50 | krka | ah i see |
| 21:11.55 | dao_at_work | I'm sure the hash value is calculated from the name of the key. |
| 21:12.09 | krka | so if the key is a string, it uses that hash, and for functions / tables, it uses the address? |
| 21:12.10 | Iriel|working | it's "the key" |
| 21:12.20 | Iriel|working | (Sorry, forgot I wasn't listening to you) |
| 21:12.54 | Qzot | I'm creating a horde toon on Draka right now. Anyone interested in the /who problem can do likewise and login. |
| 21:12.57 | dao_at_work | Ok, when you're generating a hash, you have a method which translates the key name (whatever you're using as the key name) into the hash value, and that value determines where the datum is stored. |
| 21:13.01 | Qzot | I'll try to show the problem live. |
| 21:13.37 | Qzot | Wow. |
| 21:13.51 | Iriel|working | Sadly I can't log in from work, but if you can send me the data i'd love to throw in my informed but unverified guesses |
| 21:13.53 | dao_at_work | The reason you do that is because subsequent data access will be done by key name. If you hash on something else, then you can't quickly return data by key name. |
| 21:14.16 | Qzot | Right now, on Draka OR (i.e. "/who z-or 60-60" gives 6 results, while ORG gives 30. |
| 21:14.28 | krka | what does z-or mean? |
| 21:14.52 | Iriel|working | dao_at_work : *Sigh* You're applying general knowledge which isn't necessarily valid for lua. Lua allows use of any value as a key to a table. And it has a hash generation algorithm for each data type. |
| 21:14.55 | Qzot | "Select only characters in a zone whose name contains the substring 'or'." |
| 21:15.01 | End | dao_at_work: so....uh, what would you say the "key name" for a table would be? |
| 21:15.02 | Iriel|working | Within the table the hash management is pre-determined |
| 21:15.07 | dao_at_work | yes, iriel, I understand that. |
| 21:15.18 | dao_at_work | and my point is, that is based on the key. |
| 21:15.25 | Iriel|working | And you can easily diffiuse your problem by adding an unspecified number of random keys to the table before adding user data |
| 21:15.28 | Qzot | OR returns 6 toons, from Searing Gorge, STV, and Swamp of Sorrows. |
| 21:15.28 | End | let me rephrase that :X |
| 21:15.38 | Iriel|working | defuse, even. |
| 21:15.48 | End | if you are using a table as key, what would your "key name" be? |
| 21:15.59 | Iriel|working | Try z-Or |
| 21:16.08 | End | I can think of nothing else that would make sense other than the address |
| 21:16.27 | Qzot | ORG returns 30 results, 27 from Orgrimmar, and 3 from Searing Gorge. (same 3 as from OR). |
| 21:16.43 | Qzot | Iriel: Tried that. Have never seen a case-based difference. |
| 21:16.54 | krka | i still don't get why strings don't use address, that should be the fastest way to do it :) |
| 21:17.06 | Iriel|working | krka: Because the string table is a hash tbale |
| 21:17.16 | Iriel|working | How is it supposed to look up a new stirng in there to see if it's already in existance? |
| 21:17.22 | dao_at_work | I don't understand End's point. |
| 21:17.28 | Qzot | "or" and "Or" return the same results, now down to 4. |
| 21:17.29 | krka | yes, for that case, i get it |
| 21:17.34 | krka | but not for strings that already exist |
| 21:17.36 | dao_at_work | well, I understand it, but not why he's making it. |
| 21:18.08 | Qzot | This is new information for me. The *total* number of toons matching "z-or 60-60" is less than 50, but it *still* clips the results. |
| 21:18.10 | End | because you seem convinced that using pointers to use tables as keys doesn't make sense |
| 21:18.32 | Iriel|working | dao_at_work : Because you said: lua seriously hashes on pointer data? / that's silly. No point in hashing then. |
| 21:18.52 | dao_at_work | I was talking about pointers to the data. |
| 21:18.56 | Iriel|working | If i'm using a memory object as a key in a table, using its address as the hash for that key makes a whole bunch of sense |
| 21:19.00 | Iriel|working | Well, nobody else was |
| 21:19.02 | Iriel|working | and you responded to them |
| 21:19.04 | krka | if you do: foo = bar["whatever"], the lookup in bar could use the address of the "whatever" string |
| 21:19.20 | dao_at_work | I must have misunderstood. |
| 21:19.26 | End | you must have |
| 21:19.52 | dao_at_work | ok, so how does that impact the argument that the hashing is still abusable? |
| 21:19.55 | Iriel|working | Qzot: I wonder if it's clipping between filtering steps? |
| 21:20.10 | Iriel|working | Qzot: Can you do 60-60 z-Or |
| 21:20.14 | Iriel|working | Or is that invalid? |
| 21:20.20 | Qzot | Oooo. Good idea. |
| 21:20.31 | dao_at_work | for strings does it use pointer data or does it calculate it based on the string? |
| 21:20.38 | Iriel|working | I wonder if it's filtering all of the 'Or's, then clipping that, then removing the non-60's and you get a hobbled return set |
| 21:20.51 | Iriel|working | It uses the strings contents, for the reasons detailed already twice. |
| 21:21.00 | dao_at_work | ok, then it's vulnerable. |
| 21:21.01 | Iriel|working | lua uses interned strings |
| 21:21.12 | Iriel|working | You're a broken record. |
| 21:21.27 | dao_at_work | lol |
| 21:21.29 | Iriel|working | It's only vulnerable if the implementer is an idiot. |
| 21:21.35 | krka | most are! |
| 21:21.43 | dao_at_work | No, it's vulnerable if the implementer is storing user data eventually into a hash. |
| 21:21.48 | Qzot | Doesn't appear to make a diff between "z-or 60-60" and "60-60 z-or", but that actually doesn't rule out that it's clipping between steps. |
| 21:21.50 | krka | you haven't read much of thedailywtf, have you Iriel|working? :) |
| 21:21.51 | dao_at_work | have you ever stored user data in a hash, ever? |
| 21:21.51 | Iriel|working | That's like saying it's vulnerable because I can write a non-terminating loop. |
| 21:22.09 | Iriel|working | Usually the user whose machine the code is running on. |
| 21:22.22 | Iriel|working | If they want to waste their precious CPU cycles, they can. |
| 21:22.50 | dao_at_work | you can run into problems with the communication mods, if they store anything. |
| 21:23.02 | End | unlikely |
| 21:23.05 | Iriel|working | It's not a DOS, it's an "inefficient use of resources", but I'd still wonder what the ACTUAL overhead between least-optimal and most-optimal insertion order is |
| 21:23.06 | End | the server would boot you first |
| 21:23.11 | End | for spamming too much :P |
| 21:23.26 | Iriel|working | I suspect you'll find the ratio suprisingly low |
| 21:23.56 | dao_at_work | it's a malicious "inefficient use of resources", making it an attack. it functions to limit functionality of the targetted system. it is a DOS. |
| 21:25.21 | dao_at_work | nah man, as n increases the difference increases at the same rate as the algorithmic complexity (big-oh) of the hashing algorithm, since the little-oh is at least an order faster. |
| 21:27.05 | Iriel|working | Ah, but |
| 21:27.16 | Iriel|working | You're assuming that requires complex re-hashing of the keys |
| 21:27.18 | Iriel|working | which lua does NOT do |
| 21:27.20 | krka | rehashing is amortized O(1)? |
| 21:27.25 | krka | (just guessing here) |
| 21:27.47 | dao_at_work | lol if lua has an O(1) rehashing algorithm, they should share it with the rest of computer science :) |
| 21:27.54 | Iriel|working | it just has to re-compute a simple modulus on the pre-hashed value |
| 21:28.10 | krka | well, it doesn't _always_ rehash, does it? |
| 21:28.13 | Iriel|working | so re-hashing is O(n) but it's very low constant factors |
| 21:28.19 | Iriel|working | and it only re-hashes every time the size doubles |
| 21:28.24 | krka | exactly |
| 21:28.26 | Iriel|working | so you only re-hash log(N) times |
| 21:28.28 | krka | amortized, O(1) |
| 21:28.34 | krka | or something |
| 21:28.39 | krka | meh, i am getting tired |
| 21:28.42 | dao_at_work | no, it's greater than O(1) |
| 21:29.23 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:29.31 | krka | yeah, so if you add O(N) elements, it rehashes in time O(N log N) |
| 21:29.41 | dao_at_work | sounds to me like it'd be O(nlogn) |
| 21:29.43 | dao_at_work | yeah |
| 21:30.10 | Iriel|working | But, for rational values of N, the real question is how long does a single element take |
| 21:30.17 | krka | <comic book guy>that's a real useful attack</comic book guy> |
| 21:30.19 | Iriel|working | and in lua it's extremely cheap to re-hash the table |
| 21:30.34 | krka | Iriel|working, i think we can even assume integer values of N |
| 21:30.55 | dao_at_work | most hashing algorithms are O(n log n), so it's not any more efficient than others. |
| 21:31.07 | Iriel|working | But again, the point being it doesn't really matter |
| 21:31.07 | dao_at_work | yeah, you can't count on that. |
| 21:31.14 | dao_at_work | yes, correct. |
| 21:32.07 | Iriel|working | Because (a) if you're doing something specialized with zillions of keys AND you care, it's the implementers responsibility to not use the wrong tools and (b) by adding arbitrary key-value pairs to the table beforehand you remove the ability to predict the hashing distribution. |
| 21:33.07 | dao_at_work | It's still a weakness in the hashing algorithm; you can't implement your way out of a fact of computation that for any algorithm A, there exists a worst input for that algorithm. |
| 21:33.40 | Iriel|working | Yes, but if you'd bother to stpo and think about (b) for a moment |
| 21:33.52 | dao_at_work | no, that wouldn't really help. |
| 21:34.13 | dao_at_work | You'd have to fill your table up with tons of bogus key/value pairs for it to help. |
| 21:34.26 | krka | so i'll just get to sleep instead |
| 21:34.56 | Iriel|working | you'd realize you can only exploit the weakness if you know the algorithm ahead of time |
| 21:34.59 | dao_at_work | otherwise as N increased you'd still have the same effective worst-case scenario, it'd just be "better" by a smaller and smaller constant factor. |
| 21:35.13 | dao_at_work | Lua's open-source, eh? |
| 21:35.22 | krka | yes |
| 21:35.32 | dao_at_work | Then the algorithm is known ahead of time :) |
| 21:35.46 | Iriel|working | Yes, but the "algorithm" is dependent on the size of the table |
| 21:35.50 | Iriel|working | which is NOT known ahead of time |
| 21:36.10 | dao_at_work | does it switch algorithms out entirely as the table grows? |
| 21:36.17 | Iriel|working | it's also dependent on knowing how the keys will be hashed, so the OTHER suggestion from earlier of transforming the keys in some unknown way, also resolves the issue |
| 21:36.39 | Iriel|working | Which approach you take of course depends on what N is |
| 21:36.46 | Iriel|working | or more to the point, what N is bounded to allow |
| 21:37.11 | dao_at_work | Yes, exactly, the hashing algorithm should perturb the distribution. |
| 21:37.20 | dao_at_work | The problem is not intractable. |
| 21:37.54 | Iriel|working | it's easily solvable within a lua environment by applying standard design and forethought to the problem when creating an implementation. |
| 21:38.06 | Iriel|working | This being the point we all started with, except I guess you, who claims that lua is somehow inherently flawed. |
| 21:38.19 | Iriel|working | It's only flawed if you expect to be able to solve all problems without having to think about them. |
| 21:38.19 | dao_at_work | you shouldn't ahve to write a wrapper for each table you ever use in Lua. |
| 21:38.21 | dao_at_work | that's just bad. |
| 21:39.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:44.05 | Shadowed | yay for blizzard inconsistancies! |
| 21:48.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku_ (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.35 | Qzot | Shadowed: What blizz inconsistancies did you have in mind? |
| 21:50.49 | Shadowed | Well, right now it's BG related |
| 21:51.19 | Shadowed | WSG events don't return the players name, so if we have two people with the same one we're screwed. Chat messages return "Shadowd-TestServer(PVE)" while battleground ones return "Shadowd-Test Server (PVE)" |
| 21:51.28 | Shadowed | *player name + player server |
| 22:15.59 | chuckg | Are they going to allow same faction different servers? |
| 22:16.09 | chuckg | Like, two horde from diff servers in av? |
| 22:16.18 | Kirov | doubtful |
| 22:16.31 | chuckg | So all the ppl in your particular av/wsg/ab have to be from your server? |
| 22:16.43 | chuckg | That would severely limit some servers capacity to find AV's, espeicially. |
| 22:16.53 | chuckg | Further, if they did allow it, how would they stop cross-server goods transfers! |
| 22:17.01 | Kirov | I haven't seen anything difinitive about it, but the way they describe it one could infer that |
| 22:18.32 | Thrae | I'm confused. Isn't the entire point of cross-realm BGs to allow people from different servers to be in the same BG? |
| 22:18.43 | Shadowed | ChanServ: yes |
| 22:18.47 | Shadowed | err chuckg |
| 22:19.13 | chuckg | So they're going to have to disallow trade, in some way. |
| 22:19.16 | Kirov | Thrae - Alliance from one server, Horde from another. |
| 22:19.18 | chuckg | But that ruins getting water/food from mages. |
| 22:19.20 | End | clad|work: I located your problem I think with bitlib |
| 22:19.22 | Shadowed | I |
| 22:19.34 | Thrae | Kirov: Ahhhh, that makes sense |
| 22:19.35 | Shadowed | I've got people from the Test PVE, PVP and RPVP in my battleground for me faction |
| 22:19.35 | End | (and slouken seems to agree) |
| 22:19.39 | Kirov | At least that's my take |
| 22:19.55 | Shadowed | for my* |
| 22:19.55 | Kirov | Shadowed - hmm |
| 22:20.03 | Kirov | Shadowed - can you trade with any of them? |
| 22:20.25 | Shadowed | Kirov: havn't tried yet, sec |
| 22:21.52 | Shadowed | You may only trade conjured items to players from on to another |
| 22:22.04 | Shadowed | You can open the trade window, but thats the error you get if you put like a runecloth bandage in |
| 22:22.15 | Shadowed | same with money |
| 22:23.38 | Kirov | interesting |
| 22:23.50 | Kirov | So, they are blocking transfer of items |
| 22:23.50 | Rallion | good solution, imo |
| 22:24.08 | Rallion | simple solution |
| 22:25.06 | Shadowed | Also |
| 22:25.29 | Shadowed | If you join the battleground and you're in a raid, you can talk in /p and /r without it being seen by the battleground group. once you leave the battleground group you go back to your original raid. |
| 22:27.33 | kergoth | AnduinLothar: nice job with reURL, nice and simple |
| 22:27.40 | kergoth | no silly seperate frame and all |
| 22:28.00 | wereHamster | chuckg, there was a blue post that cross-realm trading will be disabled in the BGS |
| 22:28.55 | Rallion | heh so the UI allows for 36-slot bags...nice |
| 22:30.33 | Shadowed | wereHamster: Nobody knew if that was all trading or only conjured items. |
| 22:32.15 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:32.23 | AnduinLothar | always thought those other ones were silly |
| 22:33.10 | wereHamster | disallow trading conjured items would be stupid.. but who knows if they can implement the trade system to allow only selected items.. |
| 22:35.36 | Iriel|working | Based on Shadowed's experiments, that's exactly what they've done (specific item types) |
| 22:36.43 | Shadowed | I just tested it wereHamster |
| 22:38.09 | zespri_work | what is ashbringer? |
| 22:38.13 | zespri_work | is it a real item? |
| 22:38.35 | Kirov | Yes and no |
| 22:38.45 | End | sort of |
| 22:38.47 | Shadowed | yes |
| 22:38.51 | zespri_work | lol |
| 22:38.55 | Kirov | Corrupted Ashbringer is a real item you can get in the game now. |
| 22:39.02 | Shadowed | Corrupted Ashbringer is adrop from the Four Horsemen inside Naxxramas in the deathknight wing. |
| 22:39.05 | Kirov | Ashbringer appears to exist, but no one knows how to get it. |
| 22:39.08 | zespri_work | from naxx? |
| 22:39.26 | Shadowed | yes |
| 22:39.34 | Kirov | There are a ton of rumors about someone from blizzard mentioning it has to do with getting certain rep, etc. |
| 22:39.35 | Shadowed | ashbringer is an expansion weapon, will explain in a sec |
| 22:40.15 | Kirov | The only known example of someone actually getting an ashbringer has been shown as being a hoax, and they got the item on a private server. |
| 22:40.32 | Shadowed | hold on a sec i'll explain, in WSG :p |
| 22:41.19 | AnduinLothar | ashbringer has been in game for ages, but there's no way to get it |
| 22:41.34 | AnduinLothar | you have to spawn it using console commands |
| 22:42.51 | Shadowed | it exists sort of |
| 22:43.36 | Shadowed | If you looked at the wowwalkthrough site during 1.11 PTR somebody got the corrupted ashbringer and went to SM with it. You become friendly with them, yada yada yada, event starts, yada yada yada. Basically at the end you're told the ashbringer is beyond redemption but you can create a new one. |
| 22:43.42 | Shadowed | the person who can create a new one is in outlands |
| 22:44.33 | Shadowed | It could certainly be a fake, but if it is a fake it was a *very* well done fake |
| 22:45.28 | AnduinLothar | no, corrupted ashbringer is real |
| 22:45.35 | AnduinLothar | ashbringer is fake |
| 22:45.36 | AnduinLothar | we |
| 22:45.38 | AnduinLothar | well |
| 22:45.44 | AnduinLothar | not obtainable |
| 22:45.47 | Shadowed | thats why i said it sort of exists |
| 22:46.03 | Kirov | the corrupted ashbringer might be real, the fake part would be the story about the new one being in outlands |
| 22:46.05 | zespri_work | right |
| 22:46.10 | AnduinLothar | but if you have a gm or dev account or your own server you can spawn it |
| 22:46.20 | Shadowed | Kirov: I doubt it was a fake |
| 22:46.39 | Shadowed | aha here it is |
| 22:46.39 | Shadowed | http://wowwalkthrough.com/?page=quests&rub=ash |
| 22:47.20 | AnduinLothar | it looks kinda like a doomsaw in swd form with a giant gold goin floating in the middle |
| 22:47.26 | AnduinLothar | coin* |
| 22:47.33 | zespri_work | what's the deal with the pirated servers? how people do you get them? You need to spend zillion hourse decyphering client server protocol and then writing a server from scratch just from protocol semi-knowledge |
| 22:47.46 | Shadowed | i've always wondered about that |
| 22:47.47 | AnduinLothar | or steal it |
| 22:48.00 | zespri_work | It took years an organized team in blizz to write the server, how the heck unfunded ppl do this? |
| 22:48.33 | AnduinLothar | http://wowwalkthrough.com/size.php?url=img/naxxramas/quests/quests_image022.jpg&max=550 shows the corrupted, which looks very similar to the normal one |
| 22:48.36 | zespri_work | steal means source code leak from blizz |
| 22:48.48 | AnduinLothar | cept it's not green |
| 22:48.54 | zespri_work | which while is possible is not probable |
| 22:49.01 | AnduinLothar | it happens |
| 22:49.27 | Shadowed | But yeah, as I said. It could be a fake, but given the amount of data and such it take a lot to do and isn't as likely |
| 22:49.47 | Thrae | AnduinLothar stole source code from Blizzard? How unethical! ...Can I get a copy? |
| 22:49.58 | Shadowed | make that two |
| 22:50.25 | Kirov | lol |
| 22:50.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:50.55 | Kirov | Somone getting the source code for WoW is about as likely as something getting the source code for half-life 2! |
| 22:50.56 | zespri_work | lol, I imagine these poor devs in blizz are searched when they live their offices so they can't get any media out and that their workplaces are firewalled to death so they can't leak it =) |
| 22:50.59 | Kirov | wait ... |
| 22:51.06 | AnduinLothar | well any old qa could leak the expansion client, the server is a diff matter |
| 22:51.23 | AnduinLothar | but if you had the client you could get the textures if it had access the server |
| 22:52.00 | Thrae | zespri_work: Everyone works on a LAN with no physical connection to the Internet, and Programmers are forced to live in their cubicles ;) |
| 22:52.25 | zespri_work | does server has anything to do with textures? I though they all were on client |
| 22:52.29 | AnduinLothar | nah, they have internet |
| 22:52.40 | Mikk | Lookie! Intarweb! |
| 22:53.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:53.12 | Thrae | Mikk: The walls are shielded, of course. And they have metal detectors at every entrance. |
| 22:53.21 | Mikk | If someone inside the company wants to leak something, it's out there. Period. You would have to live in a faraday's cage and have body cavity searches to avoid it. |
| 22:53.45 | Mikk | Thrae: Mmm... USB flash dongles are mosty plastic and silicon =P |
| 22:53.53 | zespri_work | actually what surprised me Blizz very successfully shut down lots of pirated server sites like a year ago, why can;t they be same effective about gold sellers? |
| 22:54.03 | kaso| | someoen must really want to leak code if it has to resort to body cavity searches ^_- |
| 22:54.13 | Thrae | Body Cavity searches are done on a random day of the week, by a big woman named Helga. |
| 22:54.35 | End | o_O |
| 22:54.36 | Thrae | zespri_work: Because pirated servers are illegal, whereas gold selling is not. |
| 22:54.47 | zespri_work | huh? how so? |
| 22:55.14 | Thrae | There are legal precedents (in the US) for and against the sale of virtual property. |
| 22:56.06 | AnduinLothar | gold isn't usually sold from the us |
| 22:56.26 | zespri_work | adn pirates all resides in US by some coincedence? |
| 22:56.32 | Thrae | I think at least one has made it up to the Supreme Court, ruled in favour of the seller of virtual property, for a different scenario then gold selling |
| 22:57.02 | Thrae | Well, they can't necessarily fight it in China! |
| 22:57.18 | Thrae | IGE does have a US base. |
| 22:57.19 | AnduinLothar | no, but gold sellign isn't illegal in other contries where as code theft is |
| 22:57.45 | Thrae | Gold selling isn't illegal in the US either, I'm saying. |
| 22:58.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | what is that site that you guys paste code onto again? |
| 22:58.14 | End | pastecode.com? |
| 22:58.15 | AnduinLothar | pastebin.com or .ca |
| 22:58.35 | Mikk | avoid pastebin.com |
| 22:58.39 | Mikk | multi-minute lag |
| 22:58.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:58.57 | End | :O |
| 22:59.06 | End | I tried pastebin.com expecting it lag |
| 22:59.11 | End | it returned a result fairly quickly |
| 22:59.14 | End | Warning: unlink(/home/pastebin/public_html/../cache/recent): No such file or directory in /home/pastebin/lib/pastebin/db.mysql.class.php on line 243 |
| 22:59.17 | End | Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/pastebin/lib/pastebin/db.mysql.class.php:243) in /home/pastebin/lib/pastebin/pastebin.class.php on line 198 |
| 22:59.39 | End | (and now it is being slow again) |
| 22:59.45 | Kirov | clad|work - ever thought about making MiniBlizzRaid CreateFrame: their raid interface? |
| 22:59.52 | Thrae | There's also a Useless Use Of Cat site |
| 23:00.53 | Thrae | uuoc.com is used by Linux channels. |
| 23:06.25 | clad|work | Kirov: I've thought about it. |
| 23:06.39 | clad|work | bbiaf |
| 23:09.54 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 23:10.26 | Tem | End, pastebin.ca |
| 23:11.06 | End | oh, I am well aware of the alternatives |
| 23:11.28 | End | I was just curious if pastebin.com was still having issues |
| 23:15.03 | End | what? Iriel without a quit message that advertises bitchx?? |
| 23:15.24 | End | incidently, that's probably still a bitchx quit message though |
| 23:15.51 | Thrae | Or maybe she just pissed off an IRC cop ;) |
| 23:15.53 | kergoth | it is. panasync was the author of bitchx |
| 23:16.01 | Thrae | Ah |
| 23:16.06 | kergoth | iirc anyway, its been ages since i used it |
| 23:16.08 | kergoth | irssi ftw |
| 23:16.27 | Thrae | irssi > ircii > bitchx |
| 23:17.08 | Thrae | BitchX was made specifically for the old IRC Script Kiddie days. I don't know why people use it anymore. |
| 23:17.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:17.39 | End | I wouldn't know anything about bitchx except Iriel uses it, and it has...special quit messages :P |
| 23:17.53 | kergoth | iirc, both bitchx and epic started out from the ircii codebase |
| 23:18.16 | Thrae | Right, but Ircii is still better then BitchX in my opinion. |
| 23:22.09 | clad|work | bitchx was just a solid client |
| 23:30.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aeana_ (n=rah@c-24-2-30-199.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (n=Dolby@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 23:34.07 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Dolby-wowi] by ChanServ |
| 23:37.41 | Tain | BitchX was developed further than ircii (and was originally based on it, yeah.) It's kind of hard to say ircii is "better" today. |
| 23:38.57 | AnduinLothar | anyone avail to help me do some testing on draka? preferably more than 1 |
| 23:39.31 | Corrodias | on dalnet, it indicates that the user quit by prefixing the message with "Quit: ", but i see that doesn't happen on this network |
| 23:40.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@ip-80-226-217-176.vodafone-net.de) |
| 23:40.21 | End | I think they are put in quotes here |
