| 00:00.01 | cladhaire | the new Ravnica set is really nice. |
| 00:00.08 | Tain | I doubt I could even put together a tournament legal deck. |
| 00:00.14 | Fanook|Afk | yeah, that and Invasion are my fave sets |
| 00:00.33 | Fanook|Afk | next block is bringing Teferi back |
| 00:00.35 | cladhaire | Tain: You have three moxes? |
| 00:00.36 | Tain | I quit when Ice Ages came out, I think I bought a few boosters of it but that's it. |
| 00:00.37 | cladhaire | i'll but a sapphire off you. |
| 00:00.38 | Canislupus | OMG i am laughing my ass off |
| 00:00.45 | Canislupus | check this out... |
| 00:00.52 | Tain | Yeah cladhaire, Pearl, Emerald... damn I don't remember if I have Ruby or Sapphire. |
| 00:00.56 | cladhaire | Tain: Let me know, I might be able to have you avoid ebay =) |
| 00:01.06 | Canislupus | <a href="http://www.warcraftcinema.com/00720060621062658/ChuckNorrisdoesPvP.movie">Chuck Norris does PvP</a> |
| 00:01.08 | cladhaire | i play WUG more often than not. |
| 00:01.35 | cladhaire | i'll pay cash =) |
| 00:02.44 | Legorol | the thing I found amusing was the high concentration of (ex-)M:tG players in here |
| 00:02.56 | Legorol | it was funny when we found out almost everyone played at one point or anohter |
| 00:03.08 | Legorol | some correlation between WoW, modding and Mtg? |
| 00:03.15 | Legorol | probably one common cause to all: geekiness |
| 00:03.17 | cladhaire | yes, actually |
| 00:03.20 | cladhaire | in our generation |
| 00:03.28 | Canislupus | no no correlation |
| 00:03.30 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.34 | cladhaire | i bet a number of peopel here were in some sort of humanities/talented and gifted classes |
| 00:03.35 | Tain | Oh I still have unopened boosters of... 4th Edition. |
| 00:03.42 | Canislupus | i am sure there is a MTG channel on here somewhere ... |
| 00:03.45 | cladhaire | Tain: 4th was horrible.. the reprints killed. |
| 00:03.47 | Canislupus | 8-) |
| 00:03.54 | Tain | That's why I never finished opening them. |
| 00:03.59 | cladhaire | ./join #mtg isn't working. |
| 00:04.07 | Tain | But I have about 25 or so boosters |
| 00:04.10 | Legorol | i also have various unopened boosters in the cupboard |
| 00:04.16 | Legorol | yay for tournaments! |
| 00:04.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:04.38 | Legorol | best part was using my crappy deck to beat the local masters in a local tournament, all of whom were using top of the range Tier 1 decks |
| 00:04.47 | cladhaire | i've got a box of Ravnica: City of Guilds that I haven't opened yet. |
| 00:05.06 | cladhaire | The new format that doesn't allow the limited cards from Type I is really nice. |
| 00:05.07 | Canislupus | try ./join #teletubbychat i am sure they have this discussion often |
| 00:05.11 | cladhaire | "forget what its told. |
| 00:05.19 | Canislupus | lol |
| 00:05.19 | Tain | Legorol I used to play an all commons Green deck that was pretty successful. |
| 00:05.39 | Legorol | that was probably during the Urza block.. |
| 00:05.48 | Legorol | Rancore was common and it rocked |
| 00:06.13 | Tain | Nah, way early on. Giant Growth pretty much made everything viable. |
| 00:06.14 | Mikk1 | yay! i get to play with my electric fly swatter! |
| 00:06.18 | Legorol | Mikk1: we are discussing Magic: the Gathering, the very first trading card game ever created |
| 00:06.22 | cladhaire | Rancor is still one of the best cards ever released |
| 00:06.22 | Legorol | and the one played by most people |
| 00:06.38 | Mikk1 | Legorol: That much I get. Everything beyond that is totally lost on me tho =) |
| 00:06.49 | Legorol | booster = pack of 15 cards |
| 00:06.51 | Canislupus | if yoo-gi-oh gets brought up i am leaving... |
| 00:07.10 | Legorol | tournament = vicious bloodbath of smelly non-bathing geeks to win prices which are then in return used to build decks to enter more tournaments |
| 00:07.15 | Mikk1 | arf damn fly. it hid. |
| 00:07.16 | Tain | I used to play White mainly, at one point I had 4 of every White card through Fallen Empires. |
| 00:07.16 | cladhaire | the yoo-gi-oh kids made me want to cry |
| 00:07.23 | cladhaire | the warhammer guys were even better |
| 00:07.24 | Legorol | Canislupus: they are not in the same ballpark |
| 00:07.31 | Legorol | yuh-gi-oh is designed for kids |
| 00:07.32 | cladhaire | Tain: I have a nice blue direct damage/counter deck righ tnow |
| 00:07.35 | cladhaire | with Psionic Blasts, etc. |
| 00:07.43 | cladhaire | four beta blasts.. they're pretty =) great condition. |
| 00:07.48 | Tain | The best fun I ever had playing magic was 5 man games with each person playing a single color. |
| 00:07.48 | Legorol | MtG pros are people who win televised poker tournaments |
| 00:08.05 | Legorol | yup |
| 00:08.36 | Canislupus | anyone know a good mod-dev channel? (just like to be a smart-alec occasionally) |
| 00:08.44 | Legorol | hm, King Mosh (l60 elite) in Un'Goro decided to corpse-camp me |
| 00:08.46 | Legorol | annoying |
| 00:08.57 | Canislupus | 160? |
| 00:09.03 | Legorol | no, l60 |
| 00:09.06 | Canislupus | oh lol |
| 00:09.16 | Legorol | change your font :P |
| 00:09.24 | cladhaire | well when we have #wowi-con, we'll play |
| 00:09.30 | Canislupus | yes i should i hate console fonts |
| 00:09.32 | Legorol | wowi-con? |
| 00:09.51 | Legorol | sigh, i thought only teenage PCs corpse camped |
| 00:09.57 | Legorol | and now i find out elite mobs do it too |
| 00:10.01 | cladhaire | haha |
| 00:10.14 | cladhaire | it'll be at the next blizzcon lol |
| 00:10.21 | Iriel | You can likely feel better that the elite NPC probably doesn't know you're there 8-) |
| 00:10.56 | cladhaire | I had the vacation time and the cash to make it this year |
| 00:10.56 | Tain | haha I'd put together a deck for wowi-con |
| 00:11.01 | cladhaire | Sweet |
| 00:11.11 | cladhaire | anyone here in eastern canada? i'll be headed up there the weekend before labor day |
| 00:11.14 | Tain | I have the vacation time, but I was going to try to prostitute myself out for the money. |
| 00:11.19 | Legorol | Iriel, if it didn't know, how come it had me for lunch on a few occasions already :) |
| 00:11.28 | Legorol | it probably thinks it's a different gnome each time |
| 00:11.48 | Tain | Well gnomes are small, no one can eat just one. |
| 00:12.26 | Mikk1 | Or try a localdefense stunt that there's some big meanie corpse camping you. |
| 00:12.31 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:12.33 | Legorol | not a bad idea |
| 00:12.39 | Legorol | ok i'm confused |
| 00:12.40 | Tain | Yeah really I spirit rez a lot. Well, I don't die a lot, but if it's even a question I'll just eat the 10 minutes and silver. |
| 00:12.41 | Legorol | what's this wowi-con? |
| 00:12.55 | cladhaire | Legorol: Tell me where and when and I'll be there, that's what its about =) |
| 00:13.03 | Legorol | aha |
| 00:13.06 | cladhaire | It'd be nice to have one that's more focused |
| 00:13.09 | cladhaire | a WoWI-hack-a-thon |
| 00:13.18 | cladhaire | just say we're learning from the OpenBSD guys |
| 00:13.33 | Mikk1 | We'd need Saien back to emulate Theo |
| 00:13.41 | kergoth | can it be like the ottawa linux symposium? |
| 00:13.46 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 00:13.57 | kergoth | hacking + conferences scattered between bouts of heavy drinking |
| 00:14.01 | kergoth | huzzah |
| 00:14.05 | cladhaire | well i thought that was a given =) |
| 00:14.09 | kergoth | :) |
| 00:14.14 | Kirkburn|wooow | Why will no-one join my on #tellytubbychat? |
| 00:14.17 | Kirkburn|wooow | *me |
| 00:14.23 | cladhaire | now if we could get slouken to come and work on the UI code at the same time.. imagine how many cookies we'd owe |
| 00:14.31 | kergoth | last time i was there, the bar ran out of both guinness and scotch |
| 00:14.34 | kergoth | it was funny |
| 00:14.57 | Canislupus | lol |
| 00:15.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (i=qw@cm-80.111.82.094.chello.no) |
| 00:15.20 | cladhaire | Tain: We should meet midway between boston and syracuse and hang ou.. i mean drink. |
| 00:15.28 | cladhaire | anythign to get me away from work =) |
| 00:15.46 | Canislupus | well the absence of MtG chat was refrenshing in the interem, at least |
| 00:15.49 | Atog | night all |
| 00:16.00 | Kirkburn | I'm the only one of #tellytubbychat |
| 00:16.04 | Kirkburn | =( |
| 00:16.11 | Canislupus | lol |
| 00:16.43 | Legorol | Kirkburn, you are mean! |
| 00:16.45 | Tain | Ah beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of live's problems. |
| 00:16.47 | qwxyr | any addons that can dump the guild members to file? |
| 00:16.56 | Kirkburn | You didn't talk about Po! I had no choice :( |
| 00:17.02 | Canislupus | well i have given up on chatbox, i am sure someone will update it, or at least add the features it had to another mod like SCCN |
| 00:17.06 | Mikk1 | qwxyr: prolly |
| 00:17.15 | Legorol | come on, cut me some slack |
| 00:17.18 | Legorol | you didn't even give me chance |
| 00:17.25 | Kirkburn | hehe :P |
| 00:17.30 | kergoth | hmmm... methinks the gf and i will rent movies and drink tonight |
| 00:18.12 | Legorol | you will rent drink? |
| 00:18.16 | Legorol | i didn't know you could do that |
| 00:18.22 | Legorol | Tain is a pro! |
| 00:18.23 | Legorol | watch out |
| 00:18.25 | Legorol | he knows the tricks |
| 00:18.29 | kergoth | returning it wouldnt be fun |
| 00:18.37 | kergoth | Mikk1: yeah, thats always a problem |
| 00:18.57 | Mikk1 | nah. depend's what the reason was for her falling asleep. |
| 00:19.16 | kergoth | point. |
| 00:19.24 | Legorol | well, as long as she is happy.. and you get to play WoW! |
| 00:19.32 | Mikk1 | aye, doesn't get much better |
| 00:19.47 | Mikk1 | except i'm not playing wow now am i? =P |
| 00:19.48 | Legorol | except a GF that plays WoW :) |
| 00:19.54 | Mikk1 | yeah i tried |
| 00:19.59 | Mikk1 | i got her hooked on Civ4 tho |
| 00:19.59 | Legorol | Mikk1: how woudl i know if you are playing or not |
| 00:20.06 | kergoth | i cant get my gf to try it |
| 00:20.12 | Mikk1 | Legorol: good point =) |
| 00:20.12 | kergoth | she tends to avoid games that involve killing things |
| 00:20.15 | Legorol | for all i know you could be two-boxing and chatting on IRC |
| 00:20.25 | Mikk1 | Or levelling a paladin |
| 00:20.28 | Legorol | oh i had a friend who had a gf who despised computer games |
| 00:20.36 | Legorol | when she heard about WoW, she sneered at it |
| 00:20.41 | Legorol | that was a year and a half ago |
| 00:20.47 | Legorol | currently, she has half of the Cenarion set complete |
| 00:20.55 | kergoth | hah |
| 00:21.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:21.38 | Kirkburn | PS3 controller's name (you have to see this article to believe it) http://digitalbattle.com/2006/06/30/sony-trademarks-ps3-controller/ |
| 00:21.56 | Fanook|Afk | i KNOW, that's just asinine |
| 00:22.09 | Fanook|Afk | which is a whole other pun |
| 00:22.51 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 00:23.18 | Kirkburn | I saw ir earlier today, but wasn't sure if it was real ... since it's all over blogs now, seem more likely |
| 00:23.23 | Kirkburn | s/ir/it/ |
| 00:23.43 | Kirkburn | But seriously ... P oo S |
| 00:23.49 | Mikk1 | Legorol: Actually i _am_ two-boxing. Except I'm trying to code on the other box =) |
| 00:24.02 | Kirkburn | zomg, ban him! |
| 00:24.20 | Canislupus | ok, i have the blizzard interface files, is it acceptable to extract them to WOW/Interface ? |
| 00:24.37 | Fanook|Afk | that's where they're extracted to by default |
| 00:25.04 | Canislupus | is there still a WOW interface dev kit? |
| 00:25.12 | Canislupus | there used to be... |
| 00:25.17 | Kirkburn | yups |
| 00:25.19 | Mikk1 | There is |
| 00:25.24 | Kirkburn | It's been updatered |
| 00:25.28 | Fanook|Afk | yes, check the support tools link on the WoW page |
| 00:25.28 | Canislupus | anyone got a linkey? |
| 00:25.39 | Canislupus | cool, thx |
| 00:25.39 | Legorol | Fanook|Afk: no they aren't |
| 00:25.45 | Legorol | they are extracted to Blizzard Interface Data |
| 00:25.52 | Legorol | Canislupus: don't extract it to WoW\Interface |
| 00:26.00 | Legorol | because then you'll have a FrameXML folder etc., and WoW might complain |
| 00:26.01 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_View_Blizzard's_Interface_Code |
| 00:26.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:26.27 | cladhaire | http://wdn.wowinterface.com is also a useful tool |
| 00:26.37 | Mikk1 | aye except then he can dump it in WoW/Interface =) |
| 00:26.40 | Legorol | nah, it's utter piece of uselessness :P |
| 00:26.46 | Mikk1 | <3 wdn |
| 00:26.48 | Legorol | who made that wdn thing anyway? :) |
| 00:26.57 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:26.58 | Legorol | i hope he is not here.. |
| 00:27.04 | Mikk1 | someone with far too much time on his hands |
| 00:27.10 | Mikk1 | to learn all that XSS stuff, i mean =P |
| 00:27.26 | Legorol | cladhaire, speaking of wdn... when will it be possible to download a combined diff of all the stuff that changed? |
| 00:27.32 | Legorol | currently i have to click each file to see the changes |
| 00:27.41 | cladhaire | I dunno |
| 00:27.50 | cladhaire | FOr that, I'd just commit the changes to SVN and diff them |
| 00:27.55 | Legorol | well no biggie, as i can generate them for myself |
| 00:27.56 | cladhaire | that'd give you a patch, or a colored diff |
| 00:27.59 | Canislupus | does that overwrite any mods? |
| 00:28.01 | Legorol | yeah that's what i do at the moment |
| 00:28.04 | Mikk1 | Canislupus: nope |
| 00:28.08 | Canislupus | kk |
| 00:28.22 | Mikk1 | It just extracts stuff from your .MPQ files to "Blizzard Interface Data" |
| 00:28.28 | Mikk1 | So you can keep using the same exe |
| 00:28.40 | Canislupus | cool, i get it now |
| 00:28.42 | Mikk1 | You can do the same with an MPQ viewer but that tool is less painful. |
| 00:28.45 | Legorol | ok, one situation in which having the graphics cranked up in WoW sucks: |
| 00:28.56 | Legorol | in Un'goro i can't see a thing on the floor from the vegetation |
| 00:29.01 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:29.05 | Legorol | hard to find the dirt piles and especially bloodpetal sprouts |
| 00:29.11 | cladhaire | i personally hate places like Hinterlands, where the trees get all up in my shit. |
| 00:29.12 | Canislupus | none of the blizz stuff can actually be changed tho, is that correct? |
| 00:29.21 | Legorol | that's correct |
| 00:29.23 | Mikk1 | correct |
| 00:29.26 | Legorol | or more correctly: |
| 00:29.27 | Mikk1 | from files, that is |
| 00:29.35 | Mikk1 | you can do whatever ingame |
| 00:29.39 | Legorol | you can't put any files in WoW\Interface\FrameXML that is different than Blizzard's file |
| 00:29.51 | Canislupus | got it |
| 00:29.57 | Legorol | you can place an exact copy of Blizzard's own files in htere, if you want to |
| 00:30.01 | Legorol | but that doesn't achieve much |
| 00:30.18 | Legorol | same goes for Interface\AddOns\Blizzard_xxxx as well |
| 00:30.20 | Mikk1 | and extracting even the default version to there is a bad idea since it'll break on the next patch |
| 00:30.21 | cladhaire | I dont believe it even loads from there |
| 00:30.23 | cladhaire | does it? |
| 00:30.30 | Legorol | it does |
| 00:30.30 | cladhaire | cause Blizzard_xxx has the .pub only |
| 00:30.41 | Legorol | well if you place the blizz files there, it loads them |
| 00:30.41 | cladhaire | *ponder* that seems odd when it can just pull it from the mpq. |
| 00:30.46 | cladhaire | hrm. |
| 00:30.51 | Legorol | becuase if you put something other than the right file there, |
| 00:30.52 | Legorol | it complains |
| 00:30.56 | Canislupus | now if i get a minor patch update from the game, will these files be automatically updated? |
| 00:30.57 | cladhaire | hrm |
| 00:30.58 | cladhaire | interesting. |
| 00:30.59 | Legorol | personally id on't see the point |
| 00:31.02 | Mikk1 | cladhaire: same code for UI development and usage |
| 00:31.06 | Legorol | Canislupus: nope |
| 00:31.11 | Legorol | you have to run the toolkit again to reextract |
| 00:31.20 | Mikk1 | same toolkit exe |
| 00:31.24 | Legorol | actually, there is a point |
| 00:31.34 | Legorol | Blizz devs themselves would want to be able to override files in mpqs |
| 00:31.39 | Legorol | just by dropping one in the Interface folder |
| 00:31.43 | Legorol | without having to recreate the mpq |
| 00:31.55 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 00:31.57 | Mikk1 | except in bad words |
| 00:32.01 | cladhaire | but theyd have to have a different executable |
| 00:32.03 | cladhaire | is my point |
| 00:32.13 | Mikk1 | true that |
| 00:32.16 | cladhaire | so in theory there's a bit we can flag somewhere that would allow it again =) |
| 00:32.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge juan|bob (n=juanvald@c-24-18-221-35.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:32.39 | Mikk1 | aye, but warden would be all over us =P |
| 00:32.44 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 00:32.47 | cladhaire | not if we catch warden |
| 00:33.03 | MentalPower | why a different .exe? |
| 00:33.21 | Mikk1 | because they can't put anything different from what's in the mpq there anyway |
| 00:33.21 | cladhaire | MentalPower: Or some config option, because if they used the same client they woudln't be able to overwrite |
| 00:33.24 | Mikk1 | as of 1.10 |
| 00:33.45 | Kirkburn | What a pointless discussion =) |
| 00:33.46 | cladhaire | chances are the system uses some checksum to make sure its the right file when the flag is on, and ignores that check otherwise. |
| 00:33.53 | cladhaire | Kirkburn: YOU'RE POINTLESS |
| 00:34.02 | Kirkburn | I'm blunt, it's true |
| 00:34.03 | Mikk1 | Yeah, I don't see a single dot in his name |
| 00:34.03 | Legorol | they can put a different stuff in there |
| 00:34.05 | ckknight_ | your mom's pointless. |
| 00:34.08 | Legorol | just have to put the right signature file there too |
| 00:34.11 | cladhaire | why don't you go make an "UnclearFont" |
| 00:34.12 | cladhaire | hrm? |
| 00:34.12 | MentalPower | I believe that if the files are signed, there woudn't be a problen |
| 00:34.12 | Legorol | no need to flip anything int he exe |
| 00:34.22 | Kirkburn | No, thatr's something YOU'D make |
| 00:34.25 | Mikk1 | MentalPower: FrameXML isn't signed tho |
| 00:34.27 | cladhaire | ooooh burn! |
| 00:34.30 | Legorol | Mikk1: it is! |
| 00:34.33 | Mikk1 | Oh |
| 00:34.37 | cladhaire | Mikk1: really? |
| 00:34.37 | Kirkburn | That's my name :) |
| 00:34.38 | cladhaire | err |
| 00:34.40 | cladhaire | Legorol: really? |
| 00:34.41 | MentalPower | yes it is |
| 00:34.44 | Legorol | yes it is |
| 00:34.48 | Kirkburn | yes it is |
| 00:34.51 | Legorol | framexml.toc.sig is the signature |
| 00:34.58 | Legorol | just look at slouken's movepad |
| 00:35.04 | Legorol | it has a .sig file too |
| 00:35.06 | cladhaire | interesting. |
| 00:35.12 | Legorol | that's what a blizz dev would do when trying to override files |
| 00:35.13 | Mikk1 | i don't see a toc.sig |
| 00:35.14 | Kirkburn | (I don't actually know, but I was having fun) |
| 00:35.22 | Legorol | Mikk1: the interface toolkit doesn't extract it |
| 00:35.24 | Legorol | it's in the mpq |
| 00:35.26 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 00:35.39 | Legorol | what we never figured out is the purpose of the .pub files |
| 00:35.52 | Legorol | because the signing and verification is done with the .sig files |
| 00:35.56 | Kirkburn | It's where the files go when you're not logged in ;) |
| 00:36.02 | Legorol | thanks Kirkburn |
| 00:36.06 | Legorol | i didn't know that :P |
| 00:36.15 | Legorol | so it's a new archival format |
| 00:36.25 | Canislupus | wait... the blizz util didnt put the files in /interface.. |
| 00:36.29 | Kirkburn | It's a drunkard format |
| 00:36.31 | cladhaire | Canislupus: it doesn't. |
| 00:36.32 | MentalPower | the .pub files are too small to be archives |
| 00:36.35 | Canislupus | like i thought it would |
| 00:36.38 | cladhaire | Canislupus: It puts it in Blizzard Extracted Files, or something |
| 00:36.46 | Mikk1 | My guess is: 2048 assymetric key |
| 00:36.52 | Mikk1 | They're 259 bytes. 256 bytes = 2048 bits. |
| 00:36.56 | Kirkburn | Okay, just so you know, I was joking ... |
| 00:36.59 | MentalPower | my guess its the.PUBlic key |
| 00:37.02 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:37.25 | Mikk1 | Things is.. if it's in .sig also.... why bother? |
| 00:37.50 | Kirkburn | The pub files are what go in the Blizz folders that are created every time you log in, no? |
| 00:37.55 | Mikk1 | ohwait. they're not 259 bytes. they're 256. |
| 00:37.59 | cladhaire | yes |
| 00:38.00 | Mikk1 | stupid dos conversion editor |
| 00:38.06 | Kirkburn | Perhaps it's like a confirmation of working thing? |
| 00:38.16 | Kirkburn | So it doesn't need to check the sig in-game? |
| 00:38.23 | Mikk1 | that'd be stupid |
| 00:38.24 | cladhaire | perhaps they decrypt the addon files from the mpq |
| 00:38.36 | cladhaire | the signature would be different from the key |
| 00:38.50 | Mikk1 | urm wait... if that's the pubkey.... |
| 00:38.59 | Mikk1 | one could just plop in a different pubkey? |
| 00:39.10 | cladhaire | if you do, maybe the addon won't load? |
| 00:39.16 | cladhaire | anyone played with that at all? |
| 00:39.36 | Legorol | yay, i just won a pvp fight vs. a hunter |
| 00:39.44 | cladhaire | what class are you Legorol? |
| 00:39.44 | Legorol | i managed to taunt him into attacking me |
| 00:39.46 | MentalPower | wheres AnduinLothar when you need him |
| 00:39.47 | Legorol | warrior |
| 00:39.48 | Kirkburn | and level |
| 00:39.52 | Kirkburn | And race |
| 00:39.58 | Legorol | gnome 54 |
| 00:40.00 | Mikk1 | you'd need to figure out cipher and hash types |
| 00:40.01 | cladhaire | wow you're demanding |
| 00:40.04 | Kirkburn | A/S/L? |
| 00:40.21 | Kirkburn | zomg, only 6 levels now, amazing |
| 00:40.25 | Mikk1 | quite doable if you reverse engineer the exes but .... bleh |
| 00:40.31 | Canislupus | hunters are getting the shaft lately.. big time |
| 00:40.32 | MentalPower | he used to work for blizz, so he would be one to ask what .pub files are |
| 00:40.34 | Legorol | Canislupus: i did say it doesn't put it in interface ;-) |
| 00:41.07 | Canislupus | yeah i must have missed that, lol |
| 00:41.10 | Mikk1 | ahwell pointless. i'm not even interested in haxing the ui |
| 00:41.15 | Kirkburn | What are you gonna do when you hit 60, Legs? (hmm, I bet you're a 1920s harlet) |
| 00:41.25 | Mikk1 | if i want an i.w.i.n button, i'd go play a cooked server |
| 00:41.29 | Canislupus | so does the game even look in these folders, or are they just for our reference? |
| 00:41.38 | Kirkburn | *harlot |
| 00:41.49 | Legorol | Anduin doesn't know what pub files are either, asked him before |
| 00:41.51 | cladhaire | They have to look in them, they get create |
| 00:41.53 | Legorol | Canislupus: it does |
| 00:41.56 | Mikk1 | Random guess: Their addon scanner only looks in directories and they couldn't be arsed to change it to scan the mpq |
| 00:41.57 | Kirkburn | What. A. Nub. |
| 00:42.08 | Mikk1 | Even though it can load files just fine |
| 00:42.10 | Legorol | Mikk1: but the addons also have .toc.sig files |
| 00:42.18 | Legorol | in addition to the .pub files |
| 00:42.24 | Legorol | whereas FrameXML only has .toc.sig |
| 00:42.26 | Legorol | that's the enigma |
| 00:42.30 | Mikk1 | Everything they need is obviously in the mpq |
| 00:42.37 | Legorol | and slouken's movepad only has a .toc.sig |
| 00:42.49 | Kirkburn | Quick! To Bletchley Park! Only they can solve it... |
| 00:42.57 | kergoth | hah |
| 00:42.57 | Mikk1 | I'm guessing the .pub is just a marker "go look in the mpq" |
| 00:42.57 | MentalPower | actually the MPQ's are mapped to a folder structure |
| 00:42.59 | Legorol | for those that don't know, MovePad is a little AddOn slouken wrote, it runs with full security privileges |
| 00:43.00 | cladhaire | hrm |
| 00:43.10 | Legorol | Mikk1: it's not, if you plomp a file in there, wow complains |
| 00:43.18 | MentalPower | and then the actual folders override whatever's in the MPQ's |
| 00:43.35 | Mikk1 | Legorol: Rephrase: The .pub is just a marker that "Yes! There really is a Blizzard_Foo" addon! |
| 00:43.37 | cladhaire | i would think that the .sig files are there for signing (literally) permissions levels, etc. public code obviously won't have them. |
| 00:43.47 | Legorol | Mikk1, that's possible |
| 00:43.52 | Legorol | but then... why have it? |
| 00:43.56 | Legorol | since if you wipe it, it gets recreated |
| 00:44.00 | Legorol | the game clearly knows that anyway |
| 00:44.02 | Mikk1 | because their addon scanner can't scan the mpq? |
| 00:44.04 | Canislupus | so i assume that with the .mpq's extracted, and you log in and get a patch pushed to you, you will not be running that version until you re-run the extractor unless i am misunderstanding... |
| 00:44.28 | Mikk1 | obviously there's something else that can scan the mpq, but perhaps it was a chore to do it in the addon scanner |
| 00:44.40 | Mikk1 | Canislupus: correct |
| 00:44.42 | Mikk1 | err |
| 00:44.44 | Legorol | Canislupus: if by extractor you mean the Blizzard tool, it puts stuff in a separate folder |
| 00:44.52 | Mikk1 | you do run the new version |
| 00:44.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge gnorlish (n=jaydee@ny-lackawannacadent4-chtwga3b-b-121.buf.adelphia.net) |
| 00:44.53 | Legorol | in the Blizz Interface Data folder, where the game doesn't even look |
| 00:44.53 | cladhaire | well i doubt the .pub contains enough information to make the addon scanner happy |
| 00:44.58 | MentalPower | you don't get it, MPQ's are folders as far as WoW is concerned |
| 00:44.59 | Mikk1 | but you can't VIEW the code until you re-extract |
| 00:45.08 | MentalPower | or more exactly they are transparent to WoW |
| 00:45.09 | Legorol | Mikk1 is correct |
| 00:45.20 | Legorol | everyone's correct :) |
| 00:45.25 | cladhaire | i'm not |
| 00:45.29 | cladhaire | trust me |
| 00:45.40 | Canislupus | Legerol: not a folder that the game -actually- looks in then ? |
| 00:45.45 | Mikk1 | MentalPower: I get that. But maybe, just maybe, the AddOn scanner is a piece of crap code that doesn't know how to talk to their MPQ interface? |
| 00:45.55 | MentalPower | I doubt it |
| 00:46.10 | Kirkburn | Here's an idea ... why not check the last accessed times? |
| 00:46.13 | MentalPower | the MPQ interface is built very deeply into blizz games, not just WoW |
| 00:46.15 | Legorol | Canislupus: that's what we've been saying all this time |
| 00:46.26 | Legorol | the Blizzard Interface Customization Toolkit creates three folders: |
| 00:46.29 | Mikk1 | too much MTG spam =) |
| 00:46.38 | Legorol | WoW\Blizzard Interface Data, WoW\Blizzard Interface Art, WoW\Blizzard Interface Tutorial |
| 00:46.44 | Legorol | these folders are *not* read by the game |
| 00:46.48 | Legorol | it's there for you |
| 00:46.53 | Canislupus | sorry for being so thick headed... that is what i had wondered |
| 00:47.03 | Legorol | and you need to rerun the utility after each patch, if you want uptodate files in there |
| 00:47.30 | Mikk1 | MentalPower: You've never given a supposedly easy piece of work to some temp and gotten a hairball back? =) |
| 00:47.43 | Canislupus | well i am catching on slowly |
| 00:47.43 | Mikk1 | "Ok, fine it works. Noone touch this now." |
| 00:48.02 | Legorol | it's all irrelevant... the game can recreate this .pub files, so it clearly has this data |
| 00:48.09 | Legorol | so the mystery is, why have it there then |
| 00:48.21 | Legorol | i can only think of it as a cache to speed up load process |
| 00:48.31 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:48.46 | Kirkburn | "No it's not irrelevant, it's a hippopotamus" |
| 00:48.59 | kergoth | ~emulate fry |
| 00:49.00 | purl | Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
| 00:49.05 | Canislupus | who is working on ChatEdit? i have this file from someone for some reason, and i can't remember why... |
| 00:49.21 | Canislupus | was it you Kirk? |
| 00:49.48 | Kirkburn | Whachamadoodle? |
| 00:49.57 | Kirkburn | No, not me |
| 00:49.57 | Canislupus | http://www.warcraftcinema.com/00720060621062658/ChuckNorrisdoesPvP.movie?u=a |
| 00:50.02 | Legorol | ok here's my theory on .pub files |
| 00:50.13 | Legorol | Let's consider for a moment how public-private cryptographic signing works |
| 00:50.19 | Legorol | Blizz has a public-private key pair |
| 00:50.26 | Legorol | Uses the private key to sign an addon |
| 00:50.32 | Legorol | this signature is stored in the .sig file |
| 00:50.34 | Canislupus | hmm... Karl Isenberg ? |
| 00:50.40 | Legorol | that's AnduinLothar |
| 00:50.45 | Canislupus | OH! |
| 00:50.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Cide! |
| 00:50.53 | Cide | yes |
| 00:50.59 | cladhaire | Legorol: I agree with this theory =) |
| 00:51.00 | ScytheBlade1 | CTRA is still proper broken |
| 00:51.03 | cladhaire | Legorol: It is my understanding. |
| 00:51.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Leader no broadcast! |
| 00:51.19 | Legorol | they then decided, for whatever reason, to make the public key available to anyone who wants to see it |
| 00:51.25 | Cide | I tested it and it worked just fine for me (1.539) |
| 00:51.28 | Canislupus | that is often another mod, Scythe |
| 00:51.28 | Legorol | except currently it has no use because we don't know what the algorithm is |
| 00:51.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Assists can |
| 00:51.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Leader can't |
| 00:51.41 | Cide | using 1.539...? |
| 00:51.49 | Cide | notice the 9, not 8 |
| 00:51.56 | Legorol | umm.. wait that doesn't make sense |
| 00:51.56 | cladhaire | i suppose its so someone can't edit the mpq file directly, replace the code, and drop their own .sig file in there, since you can't recover the private key from a public key. |
| 00:52.04 | ScytheBlade1 | "I downloaded and installed it today" |
| 00:52.05 | cladhaire | Legorol: I think it does |
| 00:52.06 | ScytheBlade1 | .9 it is |
| 00:52.10 | Canislupus | Scythe: if you are using a mod that intercepts chat channels it will bread leader chat in CTRaid, if i understand correctly |
| 00:52.20 | Legorol | well cladhaire, signature generation is a one-way process |
| 00:52.30 | Legorol | if they use a private key out of a public/private pair to generate the sig, |
| 00:52.32 | ScytheBlade1 | well, 1.539 |
| 00:52.36 | Legorol | the public key is not much use for you for anything |
| 00:52.40 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: a user says so, or do you? |
| 00:52.41 | cladhaire | yes it is |
| 00:52.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Raid leader has 1.539 |
| 00:52.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Cannot broadcast |
| 00:52.53 | Legorol | what would you use it for? |
| 00:52.54 | cladhaire | when you sign something, you sign it with your private key, and the end-user uses YOUR public to verify the signature. |
| 00:52.56 | Cide | everyone else needs 1.539 |
| 00:53.03 | Cide | the raid leader doesn't |
| 00:53.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, that changes things. |
| 00:53.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Apologies |
| 00:53.15 | Legorol | oh yeah of course |
| 00:53.19 | Legorol | got a bit muddled up there :) |
| 00:53.24 | Cide | ScytheBlade1: no worries :) |
| 00:53.25 | cladhaire | so I believe the .pub is there to prevent the user from putting their OWN files in the mpq, their own .toc.sig, because we dont know the black box encryption |
| 00:53.41 | Legorol | that'd be prevented even without the .pub files |
| 00:53.46 | cladhaire | why is that? |
| 00:53.56 | cladhaire | does the mpq get checksummed by warden/thegame? |
| 00:53.59 | Legorol | WoW has the contents of the .pub file somewhere else too |
| 00:54.05 | Legorol | since it can recreate it |
| 00:54.18 | cladhaire | and it does |
| 00:54.18 | cladhaire | if it finds its not right |
| 00:54.18 | cladhaire | i just tested that |
| 00:54.22 | Legorol | exactly |
| 00:54.30 | Legorol | so given that WoW knows how to generate the .pub file, |
| 00:54.40 | Legorol | it's *only* purpose can be for us |
| 00:54.45 | Legorol | not for its own use |
| 00:54.48 | Mikk1 | or as a workaround |
| 00:54.59 | Legorol | well i'm thinking theoretically here |
| 00:55.09 | cladhaire | no |
| 00:55.12 | Legorol | i beleive that the .pub files are from an earlier concept of addon signing |
| 00:55.12 | cladhaire | i think its for speed like you said. |
| 00:55.16 | cladhaire | it checks the signature |
| 00:55.17 | Legorol | that's also possible |
| 00:55.19 | cladhaire | in the event somethign is wrong |
| 00:55.20 | cladhaire | it recreated |
| 00:55.30 | Mikk1 | but the signature is in the .toc.sig |
| 00:55.33 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:55.34 | Legorol | hmm |
| 00:55.40 | Mikk1 | can someone compare .toc.sig to .pub? =) |
| 00:55.42 | cladhaire | Mikk1: Yes, but this is public/private pairs we're assuming. |
| 00:55.52 | cladhaire | you would need the public key to verify the signature. |
| 00:56.00 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 00:56.06 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd have to be in WoW somewhere. |
| 00:56.10 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 00:56.26 | Mikk1 | actually |
| 00:56.31 | Mikk1 | all .pub files are identical |
| 00:56.38 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:56.42 | Mikk1 | that'd suggest that it actually is the pubkey |
| 00:56.45 | Legorol | yep |
| 00:57.00 | Legorol | but i still maintain it's not for WoW's use |
| 00:57.05 | Legorol | because there is no .pub for FrameXML |
| 00:57.25 | Legorol | and because it can recreate it |
| 00:57.26 | Mikk1 | Obviously, WoW would have to actually use something hardcoded inside the exe |
| 00:57.30 | Mikk1 | Yea |
| 00:57.40 | Legorol | there is no .pub file in the mpq |
| 00:57.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 00:57.44 | Legorol | so it's hardcoded in the exe |
| 00:58.14 | Legorol | ah, also, |
| 00:58.20 | Mikk1 | Or maybe it's just some mechanism that they can use in development |
| 00:58.21 | Legorol | remember that when they locked Glue down, |
| 00:58.25 | Legorol | they didn't even have signed addons |
| 00:58.26 | Mikk1 | Plop in a developer's own pubkey or something |
| 00:58.45 | Legorol | and at that point, the only thign that appeared was a GlueXML.toc.sig |
| 00:59.03 | Mikk1 | Because if I was Blizzard, I wouldn't want their shipping signing keys in the hands of joe random devloper |
| 00:59.42 | Mikk1 | Or maybe it's a mechanism to allow trusted 3rd parties to do trusted stuff |
| 00:59.44 | cladhaire | Mikk1: They wouldn't be the keys, they're the signature. |
| 00:59.49 | cladhaire | that's the point =) |
| 00:59.59 | Mikk1 | cladhaire: the .pub files are pubkeys |
| 01:00.04 | cladhaire | what we have si the .sig which is the signature (rather than signing the plaintext XML).. and the public keys |
| 01:00.06 | Mikk1 | go check them. they're all identical. |
| 01:00.10 | cladhaire | yes i know that. |
| 01:00.13 | cladhaire | that's what i'm saying =0 |
| 01:00.18 | cladhaire | we're agreeing |
| 01:00.25 | cladhaire | i misread what you said |
| 01:00.29 | Mikk1 | ok =) |
| 01:00.31 | cladhaire | ^^ |
| 01:00.49 | Legorol | ok i'm going to try something |
| 01:01.06 | Kirkburn | You seem to have stopped levelling your char Legorol :) |
| 01:02.25 | Kirkburn | haha, I kicked myself from #tellytubbychat |
| 01:02.31 | Mikk1 | grats! |
| 01:03.05 | Mikk1 | erhm |
| 01:03.16 | Mikk1 | I don't see a FrameXML.toc.sig in interface.mpq |
| 01:03.20 | Mikk1 | is it somewhere else? |
| 01:03.21 | Legorol | Kirkburn: indeed i di |
| 01:03.28 | Legorol | it is in patch.mpq, Mikk1 |
| 01:03.31 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 01:03.34 | Legorol | remember that in retail they didn't have it yet |
| 01:03.45 | Legorol | ok, this is what i did |
| 01:03.49 | Legorol | i got slouken's movepad |
| 01:04.01 | Legorol | it has a movepad.toc.sig and a movepad.pub |
| 01:04.07 | Legorol | the .pub is identical to the blizz addon ones |
| 01:04.16 | Legorol | moreover, i installed the addon and deleted the .pub file |
| 01:04.20 | Legorol | guess what, the game created one :) |
| 01:05.25 | Mikk1 | lol |
| 01:05.35 | Mikk1 | ah. sig files are 256+20 bytes |
| 01:05.38 | Mikk1 | sha-1 hash then |
| 01:05.55 | Mikk1 | though whatever those 256 bytes are makes no sense to me |
| 01:06.33 | MentalPower | has anyone tried importing .pub files into PGP or some other encryption suite |
| 01:06.47 | MentalPower | ie, are they in any standard formet? |
| 01:06.52 | Mikk1 | they aren't |
| 01:06.54 | Legorol | i'd doubt they would be |
| 01:06.57 | Mikk1 | they're just binary |
| 01:07.03 | Legorol | it would make it too easy to hack |
| 01:07.12 | Mikk1 | nah, it's pubkey crypto |
| 01:07.20 | Legorol | yeah we know the principle |
| 01:07.27 | Legorol | but we don't know the exact data format, or the exact algorithm |
| 01:07.33 | Mikk1 | though it seems like a lot of juggling to me |
| 01:07.38 | Mikk1 | the vulnerable point is still the exe |
| 01:07.42 | Legorol | there are two parts to cryptography: |
| 01:07.45 | Legorol | the key and the algorithm |
| 01:07.52 | Mikk1 | so they still need to verify that the exe is sound |
| 01:08.13 | Legorol | no system is perfect |
| 01:08.22 | Mikk1 | then again i suppose the pubkey juggling makes distribution easier |
| 01:08.45 | Kaso | How much a cut does Goblin AH take? |
| 01:08.55 | Cide | 15%, I believe |
| 01:09.11 | Legorol | does the game reject an addon as being secure if you alter the .pub file? |
| 01:09.23 | Mikk1 | doesn't it just overwrite it? |
| 01:09.30 | Legorol | i'll try now |
| 01:09.46 | Mikk1 | try it with movepad |
| 01:10.38 | Legorol | i have |
| 01:10.43 | Legorol | it just overwrites it with the correct one |
| 01:10.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@adsl-212-53-142.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:10.53 | Legorol | i completely don't see the point of having that file out there |
| 01:11.11 | Legorol | it doesn't even serve as a useful cache, since you have to verify it anyway |
| 01:11.30 | MentalPower | perhaps its somehting they forgot to turn off? |
| 01:11.48 | Mikk1 | could be something for a future extension like i said (3rd parties somethingsomething) |
| 01:11.56 | Legorol | well there is a possibility that in principle you can sign an addon with something other than |
| 01:11.58 | Legorol | yeah as Mikk1 says |
| 01:12.06 | Legorol | you can sign not with Blizz's signature but something else |
| 01:12.09 | Legorol | and supply your own pub file |
| 01:12.24 | Mikk1 | though that pub would have to be signed by blizzard, obviously =) |
| 01:12.26 | Legorol | i'd imagine what the game does at the moment is try and decrypt using the supplied .pub, if it fails, then try the inbuilt one |
| 01:12.36 | Mikk1 | ooh hey |
| 01:12.38 | Mikk1 | heeeeeey |
| 01:12.41 | Legorol | go on |
| 01:12.54 | Legorol | Canislupus: and you said there is no hardcore modding here |
| 01:13.00 | Legorol | we are literally hacking the addon protection system |
| 01:13.07 | Mikk1 | what if the .pub file is the signature of the developer's pubkey? |
| 01:13.16 | Legorol | ehm what? |
| 01:13.21 | Mikk1 | like in pgp |
| 01:13.23 | Mikk1 | trust chains |
| 01:13.38 | Mikk1 | Okay |
| 01:13.44 | Legorol | i can read it on wikipedia if you like |
| 01:13.51 | Mikk1 | WoW.exe only knows the master signing key |
| 01:13.52 | Legorol | but you can also give a summary if its easier |
| 01:13.59 | Mikk1 | This key can be used to sign other keys |
| 01:14.01 | Legorol | WoW.exe doesn't even need to know that |
| 01:14.08 | Mikk1 | The master signing pubkey even |
| 01:14.11 | Legorol | it only needs to know the public decription key |
| 01:14.15 | Mikk1 | Yea |
| 01:14.24 | Legorol | ok hold on |
| 01:14.31 | Legorol | before you go ffurther, just to check that i understand: |
| 01:14.45 | Legorol | WoW takes an addon, and passes it so through some hashing |
| 01:14.56 | Legorol | it gets a hash |
| 01:15.05 | Legorol | the .toc.sig doesn't contain this hash, but an encrypted version |
| 01:15.11 | Legorol | you can *decrypt* .toc.sig with the pubkey |
| 01:15.25 | Legorol | and check that the hash you just calculated matches with what you got from the decryptioon |
| 01:15.28 | Legorol | does this make sense? |
| 01:15.31 | Mikk1 | Standard signature |
| 01:15.38 | Legorol | i am not very good on those either |
| 01:15.45 | Mikk1 | You got it 100% right anyway |
| 01:15.47 | Legorol | so i was guessing the above process, as the only one making sense |
| 01:15.56 | Legorol | so what Blizz has is the private key, which they never give out, |
| 01:16.03 | Legorol | which is used to *encrypt* the hash into .toc.sig |
| 01:16.04 | Legorol | right? |
| 01:16.08 | Mikk1 | Yes |
| 01:16.10 | Legorol | ok if i got this part right, do cary on |
| 01:16.28 | Mikk1 | Now... if I want to give out rights to other organizations to make signed addons |
| 01:16.36 | Mikk1 | I don't want to have to update the .exe with new pubkeys all the bloody time |
| 01:16.45 | Legorol | wait |
| 01:16.48 | Legorol | is this pubkeys of those orgs |
| 01:16.55 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 01:16.57 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:17.06 | Mikk1 | since they'd use a different privkey |
| 01:17.11 | Legorol | right |
| 01:17.15 | Legorol | since blizz can't give that out |
| 01:17.25 | Cide | question |
| 01:17.31 | Legorol | answer |
| 01:17.35 | Legorol | answer? |
| 01:17.36 | Legorol | question! |
| 01:17.38 | Mikk1 | Now, what I'd simply do, is have my main key sign their pubkeys. |
| 01:17.48 | Mikk1 | This way, WoW.exe can check that their pubkeys are signed by the blizzard master pubkey |
| 01:17.49 | Kirkburn | insult! |
| 01:17.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:17.58 | Mikk1 | Once that's been established, it uses their pubkey to check the sig |
| 01:18.00 | Cide | how 'evil' is it to hook ChatFrame_OnEvent, so that when event == "CHAT_MSG_RAID_LEADER" is passed, change the event passed to "CHAT_MSG_RAID"? |
| 01:18.03 | Legorol | Mikk1, hold on |
| 01:18.05 | Cide | (toggleable) |
| 01:18.07 | Mikk1 | That's PKI in a nutshell |
| 01:18.24 | Legorol | Cide: if you can guarantee you are the first to hook.. |
| 01:18.27 | Legorol | but what's the point? |
| 01:18.39 | Cide | easiest way to disable the [Raid Leader] label |
| 01:18.54 | Legorol | Mikk1: ok, in order for blizz to be willing to sign a 3rd parties work, |
| 01:18.59 | Legorol | they'd have to check it first, right? |
| 01:19.08 | Legorol | they wouldn't jsut blindly sign a 3rd parties pub key |
| 01:19.18 | Mikk1 | Ah. We're thinking different 3rd parties |
| 01:19.19 | Legorol | i understand what you explained (i think), but |
| 01:19.22 | Mikk1 | You're thinking "you and me" |
| 01:19.26 | Mikk1 | I'm thinking "business partner" |
| 01:19.32 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:19.40 | Legorol | oh i see |
| 01:19.45 | Legorol | so by signing their pubkey just once, |
| 01:19.48 | Mikk1 | And no, they'd never give you or me our own signing keys I don't think =) |
| 01:19.51 | Legorol | they give the ability for that company to create any addon |
| 01:19.54 | Mikk1 | yea |
| 01:20.02 | Legorol | without blizz verifying it |
| 01:20.08 | Legorol | but they can verify that the addon hasn't been altered |
| 01:20.26 | Mikk1 | Without hardcoding any knowledge about that company in the wow.exe |
| 01:20.39 | Legorol | ok, so |
| 01:20.42 | Mikk1 | Anyway. Just guesswork. But it'd explain why there's separate .sig and .pub files |
| 01:20.45 | Legorol | this means that .pub isn't in fact the public key |
| 01:20.48 | Legorol | but an encrypted version of it |
| 01:20.55 | Legorol | so ehm.. |
| 01:21.09 | Mikk1 | the .pub would be a signed pubkey |
| 01:21.11 | Legorol | .pub is the encrypted (with blizz's private key) version of blizz's public key |
| 01:21.19 | Legorol | for blizz's addons |
| 01:21.21 | Mikk1 | though the size is wrong i guess |
| 01:21.27 | Legorol | we don't know the algorithm |
| 01:21.30 | Legorol | so that doesn't matter |
| 01:21.39 | Mikk1 | Legorol: No, the .pub would be the 3rd party's pubkey, signed by blizzard's main key |
| 01:21.48 | Legorol | yeah but i am talking about blizzard addons |
| 01:21.52 | Mikk1 | Ahhhh |
| 01:21.52 | Legorol | what is in the .pub file of a blizz addon |
| 01:22.01 | Legorol | since 3rd party = blizzard |
| 01:22.07 | Mikk1 | That'd be the "Blizzard AddOn Signing key", signed by Blizzard's Main Signing key |
| 01:22.10 | Mikk1 | IF so |
| 01:22.24 | Legorol | ok so they have two keypairs |
| 01:22.27 | Mikk1 | Though it still bloody doesn't have to live in the regular fs =) |
| 01:22.30 | Legorol | let's assume so anyway |
| 01:22.37 | Legorol | well true |
| 01:22.42 | Legorol | but it might as well be there |
| 01:23.05 | Legorol | personally, i think they just have a system that works but is a combination of several designs :) |
| 01:23.12 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 01:23.16 | Legorol | i think they had different ideas and changed something as they went along |
| 01:23.21 | Canislupus | someone in here mentioned Viper earlier... does he hang out here? |
| 01:23.23 | Legorol | remember that there used to be a lock icon on the addons list |
| 01:23.32 | Legorol | Canislupus: never seen him in here |
| 01:23.40 | Mikk1 | ~seen Viper |
| 01:23.47 | purl | viper <n=installl@gprs-pool068.mobnet.ru> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 138d 8h 9m 3s ago, saying: 'how it recieves packets?'. |
| 01:23.49 | Legorol | i am sure their addon security ideas went through several iterations |
| 01:23.59 | Mikk1 | wrong viper |
| 01:24.17 | MentalPower | ah yes, the lock icon is gone, but GetAddOnInfo still returns if the addon is secure or not |
| 01:24.21 | Legorol | so i wouldn't be that surprised if the .pub was just a leftover from something |
| 01:24.26 | Canislupus | but nonetheless a fascinating bit of info |
| 01:24.27 | Legorol | MentalPower: yup |
| 01:24.54 | Legorol | hehe i have a funny idea |
| 01:24.58 | Legorol | i wonder if i can rename movepad |
| 01:25.00 | Legorol | oh no i can't |
| 01:25.01 | Mikk1 | Though the file sizes don't really support my theories |
| 01:25.03 | Legorol | would need to alter the toc :( |
| 01:25.08 | Legorol | oh yeas i can |
| 01:25.11 | Legorol | just alter the toc's name :) |
| 01:25.14 | MentalPower | no you woudn't |
| 01:25.18 | MentalPower | exactly |
| 01:25.39 | MentalPower | assuming the hashing algorithm only considers the data part of the file |
| 01:25.41 | Mikk1 | They MIGHT include file names in the hahs though |
| 01:25.51 | MentalPower | what Mikk1 said :) |
| 01:25.56 | Mikk1 | What MentalPower said =) |
| 01:26.22 | Legorol | yay! it got blocked! |
| 01:26.35 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 01:26.40 | Mikk1 | did you rename the .sig too? |
| 01:26.44 | MentalPower | so they do include the name in the hash |
| 01:26.44 | Legorol | yep |
| 01:26.46 | Mikk1 | k |
| 01:27.02 | Canislupus | anyone using PLM then? |
| 01:27.09 | Legorol | lol, awesome tip: |
| 01:27.13 | Mikk1 | plastic and light metals? |
| 01:27.16 | Legorol | "It is better to quest and die, then never to have quested at all." |
| 01:27.26 | Canislupus | Player Link Menu |
| 01:28.31 | Legorol | i was thinking.. |
| 01:28.40 | Canislupus | oh boy... |
| 01:28.42 | Legorol | given that we know what the data is that is getting encrypted (addon contents) |
| 01:28.53 | Legorol | and we might be able to guess the algorithm, |
| 01:29.01 | Legorol | doens't this open up signing to a brute force attack :) |
| 01:30.06 | Mikk1 | 2048 bit keys = just hax0r warden |
| 01:30.11 | Mikk1 | faster |
| 01:30.32 | Legorol | hi Cairenn |
| 01:30.46 | Legorol | we had an exciting time trying to figure out what on Earth is blizz up to in their addon signing process |
| 01:30.55 | Legorol | and we got stumped by the .pub files' pointlessness :) |
| 01:31.33 | Cairenn | ummm, what signing process? you mean the one they had started to think about doing, the one Slouken dumped hundreds of hours of work into, and they then canned? |
| 01:31.47 | Legorol | ooh |
| 01:31.51 | Legorol | didn't know there was a project like that |
| 01:31.53 | Legorol | poor slouken |
| 01:32.01 | Legorol | we were just tryign to dissect the current one |
| 01:32.13 | Legorol | but that's an interesting bit of trivia |
| 01:32.30 | Mikk1 | if slouken actually committed stuff to repo, that'd explain a thing or two =P |
| 01:32.31 | Legorol | Cairenn, what we were discussing is the .pub files that you can find in Interface\AddOns\Blizzard_xxx folders |
| 01:32.37 | Legorol | the ones that get created by WoW automatically |
| 01:32.39 | MentalPower | any more of that trivia you could share cair? :) |
| 01:32.42 | Legorol | we were theorising on its purpose |
| 01:32.57 | Cairenn | sorry, thought you were referring to when there was the little "lock" icon beside the mod listing, that poofed after a while |
| 01:33.07 | Legorol | yeah i did bring that up too |
| 01:33.13 | Legorol | but we were mainly talking about the current system |
| 01:33.25 | Legorol | Mikk1: so my theory about some remnant stuff isn't that unfounded |
| 01:33.36 | Mikk1 | nope =) |
| 01:33.37 | Cairenn | I *could* share all kinds of trivia, but the question should be "would" I share, and by and large the answer to that question is "no, I won't" |
| 01:34.01 | Legorol | Cairenn: unless you share it with a few trustworthy person that you know would use it to poke holes in the system, |
| 01:34.06 | Legorol | and then duly report them to slouken :) |
| 01:34.08 | Mikk1 | actually rhymes with my "hacky workaround" theory too to some extent |
| 01:34.16 | Legorol | hehe |
| 01:34.17 | Cairenn | anyway, that was what *I* was referring to |
| 01:34.23 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:34.27 | Cairenn | obviously not what you guys are discussing |
| 01:34.32 | Legorol | they are related |
| 01:34.35 | Legorol | i think |
| 01:34.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge net\afk (n=net@dslb-088-064-177-032.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:35.25 | Legorol | ok so we have established that, for whatever reason, when WoW verifies that an AddOn is secure and that addon passes all checks, it creates a .pub file with its name |
| 01:35.47 | Legorol | hm, actually, it could be something as simple as that |
| 01:35.52 | Legorol | WoW loading code: |
| 01:35.57 | Legorol | 1) verify addons |
| 01:36.07 | Legorol | 2) indicate verification pass by creating .pub |
| 01:36.08 | MentalPower | well, that is IF the pub file is not valid |
| 01:36.17 | Legorol | 3) load addons, those with .pub are loaded as secure |
| 01:36.23 | MentalPower | if its valid it does not re-create it |
| 01:36.23 | Legorol | since the loader is later than the verifier |
| 01:36.39 | Legorol | MentalPower: did you check modification times? |
| 01:36.46 | MentalPower | yup |
| 01:37.02 | Legorol | yah you're right |
| 01:37.19 | MentalPower | the .pub files are accessed on game load, but they're only created once per patch |
| 01:37.46 | MentalPower | s/patch/major patch/ |
| 01:38.18 | Legorol | hm, that would've been an intersting experiment |
| 01:38.22 | Legorol | compare .pub files between different wow versions |
| 01:38.35 | Legorol | anyone has an archive of old ones? |
| 01:38.54 | MentalPower | nop, sorry |
| 01:41.27 | Legorol | ah, but i should have an old version of movepad! |
| 01:41.48 | Cairenn | or, you could just get the archived version from WoWI :p |
| 01:42.02 | MentalPower | those don't have .pub files |
| 01:42.09 | MentalPower | or do they? |
| 01:42.18 | Kirkburn | Why wouldn't they? |
| 01:42.37 | Mikk1 | They would if they MPQ has them |
| 01:42.41 | Mikk1 | But |
| 01:42.42 | Mikk1 | ... |
| 01:42.51 | Mikk1 | it doesn't |
| 01:43.07 | Mikk1 | if we're talking about the same archives here that is |
| 01:43.15 | Legorol | Cairenn: you have old versions of movepad on wowi? |
| 01:43.23 | Kirkburn | slouken uploaded it himself |
| 01:43.26 | Legorol | woot! |
| 01:43.31 | Mikk1 | oh. archives of movepad. |
| 01:43.34 | Cairenn | given that's the only place he releases it, ummm, yeah |
| 01:43.37 | Kirkburn | I got first post :P |
| 01:43.38 | Legorol | Mikk1: isn't that what i just said :) |
| 01:43.52 | Kirkburn | (my first ever blue first! zomg) |
| 01:43.53 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4767 |
| 01:43.55 | Legorol | Cairenn: he releases "direct" as well, by providing a download link on US UI forum |
| 01:44.00 | Legorol | that's where i always got it from |
| 01:44.06 | Legorol | thanks |
| 01:44.19 | Legorol | the .pub is the same :( |
| 01:47.37 | Kirkburn | Wow, it's nearly 9 months since I first released CF :O |
| 01:47.47 | Legorol | poor slouken.. |
| 01:47.53 | Legorol | the only change he had was the inteface num.. |
| 01:47.57 | Legorol | and he had to resign and reupload |
| 01:48.02 | Legorol | welcome to addon maintenance world :) |
| 01:48.17 | Legorol | oh, and i see what the d'oh was that made his 1.11 version not work |
| 01:48.24 | Kirkburn | You're welcoming him to something HE works on? :) |
| 01:48.25 | Legorol | he forgot the ## Secure: 1 line in the .toc |
| 01:48.32 | Legorol | Kirkburn: he doesn't work on addons |
| 01:48.40 | Legorol | i mean he doesn't publish and maintain them ;-) |
| 01:48.46 | Legorol | except now he has movepad |
| 01:48.46 | Kirkburn | Yes he does :P |
| 01:48.52 | Legorol | no he doesn't |
| 01:48.57 | Kirkburn | yay for facetiousness |
| 01:48.59 | Legorol | he doesn't necessarily maintain the blizz addon codes |
| 01:49.07 | Legorol | ok ok you win |
| 01:49.11 | Kirkburn | hehehe |
| 01:49.22 | Kirkburn | I know what you mean =) |
| 01:50.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hyperChipmunk (n=staharaj@d14-69-214-77.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 01:50.31 | Kirkburn | Was that the only change? The file is smaller ... |
| 01:50.41 | Kirkburn | 2.51 --> 2.35 kb |
| 01:51.29 | Mikk1 | what coders doesn't tweak his work? =) |
| 01:51.35 | Mikk1 | s/coders/coder/ |
| 01:52.28 | Kirkburn | I curse mien daily |
| 01:52.38 | Kirkburn | See, it always bites back |
| 01:52.53 | Kirkburn | And then it shuts down with no warning |
| 01:53.22 | Kirkburn | (I know, you're expecting me to suddenly leave ... well .... |
| 01:53.32 | Kirkburn | Yes! Haha ... g'night all |
| 01:54.04 | MentalPower | ok... that was wierd |
| 01:54.28 | Mikk1 | Get used to him =) |
| 02:02.25 | Canislupus | well as i learn more here i see that ChatBox was pretty poorly written |
| 02:03.02 | Canislupus | he was _overwriting_ the default UnitPopupMenus |
| 02:03.30 | Mikk1 | sounds a bit unnecessary |
| 02:03.33 | Canislupus | which would have trashed the new "RAID_TARGET_ICON" options in the patch |
| 02:03.55 | Canislupus | and anything else bliz added in future patches |
| 02:04.29 | Canislupus | such as "RESET_INSTANCES" |
| 02:05.29 | Canislupus | best i can tell, PLM only ADDS to these tables, and doesnt overwrite them |
| 02:06.50 | MentalPower | PLM? |
| 02:08.52 | End-afk | that was fun |
| 02:08.55 | End-afk | my power supply died |
| 02:10.59 | Canislupus | *sigh* Player Link Menus |
| 02:11.41 | Canislupus | hey does anyone know of a mod that allows undocking and resizing of the Chat input frame? |
| 02:12.38 | MentalPower | Canislupus: link to PLM? |
| 02:13.50 | Mikk1 | google "player link menus" warcraft |
| 02:13.56 | Mikk1 | worksforme =) |
| 02:14.33 | MentalPower | heh, I tried curse/wowi/worldofwar |
| 02:14.59 | Canislupus | http://ui.worldofwar.net/listuis.php?searchtext=player+link+menu&x=0&y=0 |
| 02:15.43 | Canislupus | since you are interested, i WAS using ChatBox, but it is poorly written and quite broken, as of the last patch |
| 02:17.15 | Canislupus | wait... Confab is the mod i use to move the Chat edit box, not ChatBox.... cool i wont have to replace it then |
| 02:20.05 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 02:20.10 | Mikk1 | "oops" |
| 02:27.08 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Canislupus (n=Canislup@68-185-211-193.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com) |
| 02:27.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Canislupus (n=Canislup@68-185-211-193.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com) |
| 02:32.48 | Mikk1 | Sanity check: The new "inherits" parameter to CreateFrame() causes OnLoads to run, right? |
| 02:37.13 | Canislupus | lol blizzard uses the word "pissed" in its NPC sound files |
| 02:38.05 | Mikk1 | maybe there's a profanity safe version of it also? =P |
| 02:38.29 | Legorol | i am so sad to hear the troll /silly about the two dwarves is gone :( |
| 02:39.02 | Canislupus | well i should have specified "in the name of" its sound files |
| 02:39.02 | MentalPower | it is?? |
| 02:39.22 | MentalPower | Mikk1: yes OnLoads are run |
| 02:39.23 | Mikk1 | apparently there was a copyright conflict |
| 02:39.26 | Mikk1 | thanks MentalPower |
| 02:39.32 | MentalPower | o rly? |
| 02:39.38 | MentalPower | this is news for me |
| 02:40.17 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/In-Jokes_and_References#Troll_Male |
| 02:40.25 | MentalPower | Mikk1: and the frame is also created :Show()n |
| 02:40.39 | Mikk1 | rly? |
| 02:42.10 | MentalPower | yeah, Iriel asked for an extra parameter so those two would not be true, but it seems we never got it |
| 02:42.53 | Legorol | since you can't create a frame in XML without its OnLoad getting called, |
| 02:43.00 | Legorol | i am not sure what exactly the issue is here |
| 02:43.19 | Legorol | oh i get it i think |
| 02:43.25 | Legorol | if it runs its OnLoad, |
| 02:43.33 | Legorol | you have no opportunity to SetScript it before it runs |
| 02:43.41 | Legorol | if you are inheriting a virtual and want to extend OnLoad, that's a bummer |
| 02:43.57 | MentalPower | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-interface-customization&T=343889&P=8 |
| 02:45.44 | Cide | actually, you can make it not call OnLoad |
| 02:45.51 | Cide | by defining an empty OnLoad in the element |
| 02:46.03 | Cide | which overwrites any OnLoad you have in the virtual copy |
| 02:46.14 | Legorol | but Cide |
| 02:46.17 | Legorol | if you are CreateFraming, |
| 02:46.21 | Legorol | how will you define an OnLoad? |
| 02:46.36 | Legorol | you just created the frame.. and it already ran its onload |
| 02:46.41 | Legorol | you had no chance to SetScript it yet |
| 02:46.46 | Cide | you wouldn't, but there's no equivalent of stopping it from calling OnLoad |
| 02:47.02 | Cide | there is in xml |
| 02:47.05 | Mikk1 | you don't get to give CreateFrame() a table |
| 02:47.09 | Legorol | Cide: yes |
| 02:47.13 | Legorol | that's what i said too |
| 02:47.16 | Mikk1 | Though there's an easy solution tbh |
| 02:47.24 | Legorol | which is? |
| 02:47.28 | Mikk1 | Just create a virtual that defaults to hidden and has a dud onload |
| 02:47.33 | Mikk1 | CreateFrame that |
| 02:47.41 | Legorol | but if you are trying to use a blizz virtual |
| 02:47.43 | Legorol | then you are in trouble |
| 02:47.45 | Cide | yeah, but that assumes that you have control of the virtual |
| 02:47.48 | Mikk1 | No |
| 02:47.51 | Cide | yeah, what Legorol said |
| 02:47.58 | Mikk1 | Your own virtual would inherit blizz' virtual |
| 02:48.03 | Cide | otherwise you have to create another virtual frame |
| 02:48.13 | Mikk1 | sorry for not making that clear |
| 02:48.22 | Cide | true, it'd wor |
| 02:48.22 | Cide | work |
| 02:48.26 | Cide | but it's a rather clumsy solution |
| 02:48.29 | Mikk1 | aye |
| 02:48.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|lost (n=jircii@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 02:48.39 | Ktron|lost | hey everyone |
| 02:48.44 | Ktron|lost | how goes it? |
| 02:49.11 | Mikk1 | we weren't talking about you |
| 02:49.11 | Mikk1 | really |
| 02:49.30 | Mikk1 | everyone just stopped talking for no real reason |
| 02:49.39 | Mikk1 | hi btw =) |
| 02:49.49 | Ktron|lost | good, I hate when people are talking about the size of my nose behind my back |
| 02:49.59 | Mikk1 | aye that's what i said |
| 02:50.01 | Mikk1 | i mean.. didn't |
| 02:50.02 | Mikk1 | say |
| 02:50.24 | Ktron|lost | So, for some reason, I don't seem to be able to identify... is there a 'lost password' option kicking around somewhere for nickserv? |
| 02:51.18 | Mikk1 | I seem to remember something in the registration process mentioning being able to get it to send mail |
| 02:52.12 | Ktron|lost | Yeah, I have access to my email, I was hoping I could tell nickserv to email me my pass, but I can't find such an option... I'll poke around some more |
| 02:53.16 | Canislupus | is he gone? the guy with the big nose? |
| 02:53.24 | Canislupus | can we talk about him again? |
| 02:56.25 | Mikk1 | Ktron: might be something on their web shite |
| 02:58.59 | Mikk1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:59.41 | Mikk1 | Possibly the best birthday present I've ever gotten. It never ceases to amuse me. |
| 03:01.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:02.00 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:03.23 | Ktron | not much for luck |
| 03:03.29 | Ktron | what is? |
| 03:05.03 | Mikk1 | Fanook|Afk: Would you feel better if I referred to them as Murlocs next time? |
| 03:05.51 | Mikk1 | oh ehm.. looks like a smallish tennis racket |
| 03:06.00 | Mikk1 | except it's electrified |
| 03:06.06 | Ktron | that was weird... but it finally accepted my password |
| 03:06.31 | Mikk1 | Maybe it had problems resolving your reverse DNS entry? |
| 03:06.39 | Ktron | did you know that if you type your password in here it shows up stars to everyone but you |
| 03:06.40 | Ktron | ? |
| 03:06.44 | Mikk1 | lol |
| 03:06.53 | Ktron | hehehh... see? :) ****** |
| 03:07.08 | Mikk1 | cool! so if i type mikkrulez, all you see is *********? |
| 03:07.29 | Shadowed | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:07.52 | Ktron | yep, I just saw <Mikk1> cool! so if i type mikkrulez, all you see is *********? |
| 03:08.11 | Mikk1 | butbut.. now i saw "mikkrulez".. i mean.. my password |
| 03:08.27 | Iriel | What if my password IS ********* |
| 03:08.27 | Iriel | ? |
| 03:08.33 | Ktron | that's because I copy and pasted |
| 03:08.36 | Mikk1 | ahhh |
| 03:08.37 | Mikk1 | ok |
| 03:08.38 | Mikk1 | cool |
| 03:08.45 | Mikk1 | mikkrulez! |
| 03:08.47 | Mikk1 | lol |
| 03:09.11 | Ktron | you can go mikkruling all the mikkrulez you want! |
| 03:09.14 | Ktron | Iriel, heh heh |
| 03:09.30 | Ktron | That'd be a fun password |
| 03:09.59 | Iriel | I have passwords like rX6;y%a} |
| 03:10.21 | Ktron | http://bash.org/?244321 for those who haven't read it |
| 03:11.10 | Ktron | I only use generated passwords for my 'important' stuff, I use easier to remember ones for everything that doesn't really matter |
| 03:11.38 | Ktron | Like, IRC nick registration for example, isn't exactly life-or-death if someone cracked |
| 03:12.35 | Iriel | Mikk1 : How do you do remote administration? |
| 03:12.40 | Mikk1 | remote wha? |
| 03:12.40 | Iriel | Or do you just NOT do remote administration? |
| 03:12.58 | Mikk1 | well ok, the vpn tunnel to work has a pretty insane password |
| 03:13.26 | Iriel | They switched us to SecurID tokens not long ago |
| 03:13.37 | Iriel | So that's one less 'password' I need to worry about |
| 03:13.38 | Mikk1 | but then again, it's just to the general access network. can't get to the developer network via vpn. |
| 03:14.47 | Mikk1 | hm? |
| 03:14.56 | Mikk1 | just remove it from the list of allowed tokens |
| 03:15.00 | Mikk1 | each one has a unique seed |
| 03:15.52 | Ktron | oh, I figured they all had the same numbers-- just sync'd to a server or something |
| 03:15.55 | Mikk1 | nope |
| 03:16.03 | Iriel | There's also a PIN for each user and each user is bound to one ID token |
| 03:16.45 | Ktron | I did know there was a PIN too, it was more of wondering if they needed to recollect all of them or something ridiculous any time one is lost |
| 03:17.05 | Mikk1 | Each token follows its one sequence, according to its built-in timer. The SecurID server scans the next few and previous few values if the server and token goes out of sync. |
| 03:17.31 | Mikk1 | Clock wise I mean |
| 03:17.40 | Iriel | It'll randomly ask you for 2 successive values sometimes as well |
| 03:17.50 | Ktron | hm |
| 03:17.50 | Iriel | so you can't get away just sneaking a glimpse at someone else's ID |
| 03:18.11 | Mikk1 | Clock drift is why you can't leave a securid token lying unused for too long |
| 03:18.34 | Mikk1 | Though I suppose they may have gotten better crystals since I toyed with them last (nearly 10 years ago >.<) |
| 03:19.04 | Iriel | Hm, so if I were a bonfire in Westfall, would I be to the north or the south? |
| 03:19.12 | Fanook|Afk | south |
| 03:19.13 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 03:19.19 | Fanook|Afk | near the lighthouse |
| 03:19.46 | Iriel | damn it, that was my 2nd guess |
| 03:19.58 | Kaelten | anyone know where the code that toggles your backpack when you open the mailbox is? |
| 03:20.15 | Iriel | Interface/FrameXML/MailFrame.lua |
| 03:20.29 | Iriel | Search for OpenBackpack() |
| 03:21.10 | Iriel | $ ifind OpenBackpack |
| 03:21.11 | Iriel | Interface/FrameXML/ContainerFrame.lua:function OpenBackpack() |
| 03:21.11 | Iriel | Interface/FrameXML/MailFrame.lua: OpenBackpack(); |
| 03:21.11 | Iriel | Interface/FrameXML/MerchantFrame.lua: OpenBackpack(); |
| 03:21.11 | Iriel | OpenBackpack () - () |
| 03:22.01 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 03:22.05 | Kaelten | thanks iriel, I was trying to look for ToggleBackpack |
| 03:23.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron_ (n=jircii@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.57 | Ktron_ | heh |
| 03:54.14 | Legorol | Iriel, about the bonfire: you could've avoided guessing by reading the quest log ;-) |
| 03:54.33 | Iriel | I noticed that after the fact 8-( |
| 03:54.40 | Legorol | aye |
| 03:54.44 | Legorol | the hardest one is Azshara |
| 03:54.51 | Legorol | when you need clues for that, beep |
| 03:54.56 | Iriel | Guess which one I have to do next 8-) |
| 03:55.06 | Legorol | Azshara? |
| 03:55.09 | Iriel | I know the NE corner of azshara pretty well tho after some felcloth farming there |
| 03:55.14 | Legorol | it's hardest in terms of finding it |
| 03:55.20 | zespri | SecurId? |
| 03:55.27 | Iriel | and track humanoids helps |
| 03:55.37 | Legorol | cheat! |
| 03:55.42 | Legorol | Iriel: at the risk of spoiling it for you, i can save you a lot of time.. honestly |
| 03:55.53 | Iriel | if I get frustrated i'll yell |
| 03:55.53 | Legorol | unless you want to try looking for first |
| 03:56.01 | Legorol | and if you can't find it... then beep :) |
| 03:56.35 | Legorol | what is felcloth? |
| 03:56.40 | Legorol | is that higher level than rune cloth? |
| 03:57.06 | Iriel | yes, we tur n it into mooncloth |
| 03:57.08 | Legorol | Azshara seems like a lower level zone than the mobs that drop rune cloth for me |
| 03:57.20 | Legorol | so i'd venture to guess that fel cloth is lower level than rune cloth |
| 03:57.30 | Iriel | Felcloth only drops from demons |
| 03:57.31 | Legorol | but on the other hand, i have had rune cloth drop, and not fel cloth |
| 03:57.34 | Iriel | and it has a horrible drop rate |
| 03:57.38 | Legorol | that makes sense |
| 03:57.42 | Legorol | about the demons that is |
| 03:57.49 | Legorol | i haven't killed many of tose |
| 03:58.03 | Legorol | hm, there is something odd |
| 03:58.11 | Legorol | Argent Dawn is handing out quest i have done once already |
| 03:58.16 | Legorol | well no biggie, i'll do it again |
| 03:58.53 | Mikk1 | Arf. How the hell did they manage to make SetChecked() and SetChecked(nil) act differently?! |
| 03:59.02 | Iriel | It's easy to do |
| 03:59.05 | Mikk1 | OHwait |
| 03:59.26 | Mikk1 | In Lua, it'd be (...) -> check getn(). In C it's damn obvious to begin with. |
| 04:00.21 | Iriel | They're a bitch to hook tho |
| 04:00.36 | Iriel | for the ... reason |
| 04:00.37 | Mikk1 | Have to hook it with (...) |
| 04:00.42 | Mikk1 | and unpack(arg) |
| 04:00.45 | Legorol | so what's the differnce between SetChecked() and SetChecked(nil)? |
| 04:00.48 | Iriel | yes, bad for GC |
| 04:00.51 | Iriel | SetChecked() CHECKS it now |
| 04:00.55 | Iriel | It used to UNCHECK |
| 04:00.58 | Legorol | eek |
| 04:01.02 | Legorol | that is so bad |
| 04:01.03 | Iriel | The explicit nil always unchecks |
| 04:01.21 | Iriel | it's "different", for sure, I can see the logic |
| 04:01.26 | Iriel | but i'm not sure it was a good idea |
| 04:01.33 | Mikk1 | It's very C++ |
| 04:01.36 | Mikk1 | Very un-Lua |
| 04:01.39 | Legorol | it's the compatibility change, plus that it doesn't act like other setxxx functions |
| 04:03.27 | Kaelten | so whats more effeciant, breaking things down into smaller functions or having slightly more complex functions? |
| 04:03.38 | Iriel | and yes, I know I just mixed /me and I |
| 04:03.50 | Iriel | Kaelten : Which ever is easier to code, extend, and maintain |
| 04:04.09 | Iriel | Kaelten : Unless you're in a tight OnUpdate kind of situation |
| 04:04.11 | Kaelten | hrm, I'm at the stage where I'm looking to cleanup and optimize thigns some |
| 04:04.22 | Kaelten | everything works, I just want to clean it up now. |
| 04:04.24 | Iriel | Kaelten : In which case, avoid extra function calls if you can do so without bloating other code too badly |
| 04:04.53 | Kaelten | Well I'm responding to Bag_Update so its pretty close :s |
| 04:05.11 | Kaelten | Also, does anyone know of any other even betside BagUpdate that fires when you change out your bags? |
| 04:05.42 | Kaelten | any other events rather |
| 04:06.05 | Legorol | yay for my automatic alt-tab sound issue fixer! works wonders |
| 04:09.30 | Iriel | zespri: SecurID is an RSA product, i'm sure google will be informative |
| 04:10.14 | zespri | Iriel, I know, I was just wondering how this topic happend to be broght up here =) |
| 04:10.30 | zespri | I have had my share of ScureId as well |
| 04:11.15 | Iriel | A discussion on passwords |
| 04:12.52 | Mikk1 | puhh. there. CreateFrame() accepts the inheritance parameter |
| 04:13.21 | Cairenn | btw, since I am relatively certain that it will come up at some point ... yes, we are down. network maintenance that we weren't informed was going to happen. the maintenance is supposed to be 60 mins |
| 04:14.48 | Iriel | Hey mikk, do you track whether code is signed or not in your simulation? |
| 04:15.35 | Mikk1 | nope |
| 04:15.41 | Mikk1 | don't really see the point |
| 04:15.53 | Iriel | Obviously you can't verify the signature, but it affects overriding for virtual frame definitions |
| 04:16.00 | Iriel | not that 'normal' installations have to worry about it |
| 04:16.04 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 04:16.55 | Mikk1 | and that's SetChecked() fixed too... grmbl. (...) |
| 04:17.39 | Mikk1 | Iriel: How does it affect it? |
| 04:18.06 | Iriel | If the loader encounters a virtual frame definition during XML loading with a name that's already been used for a virtual frame then: |
| 04:18.30 | Iriel | If the old definition is NOT signed, and the new definition IS signed, it'll override the old one. Otherwise the old one stays. |
| 04:18.47 | Legorol | Iriel, i think apart from very screwed up addons, this is not going to be an issue |
| 04:19.02 | Legorol | i don't think wowbench needs to be a 100% accurate emulator, including quirks, bugs and unexpected behaviours |
| 04:19.11 | Legorol | it's sufficient if you can debug the majority of the problems imho |
| 04:19.22 | Iriel | But anyone who writes an emulator should know the details that they chose NOT to implement |
| 04:19.24 | Mikk1 | I'd agree. Seems like a security measure to keep people from being intentionally malicious rather than guarding against oopses |
| 04:19.34 | Legorol | definitely |
| 04:19.41 | Iriel | It's because I broke slouken's signing protection with it |
| 04:19.44 | Legorol | it's a direct result of a little exploit Iriel created a while back :) |
| 04:19.46 | Mikk1 | lol |
| 04:20.02 | Legorol | 1.10 on PTR was fun.. |
| 04:20.12 | Legorol | with every build, we'd look for ways to break a hole in the system |
| 04:20.41 | Legorol | i loved this one when it still worked: PlaySound = MoveForwardStart; BankFrame:Show(); |
| 04:20.50 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 04:21.06 | Mikk1 | That's damn obvious though |
| 04:21.12 | Legorol | you couldn't call MoveForwardStart directly, but Blizzard code, entered cleanly from C, could |
| 04:21.15 | Mikk1 | I'm a bit surprised they didn't think of hooks |
| 04:21.33 | Iriel | they did, in a way |
| 04:21.42 | Iriel | you couldn't put your own code into a hook |
| 04:21.50 | Iriel | it was /redirection/ they didn't fully anticipate |
| 04:21.52 | Mikk1 | ahh yeah ok |
| 04:22.08 | Legorol | it was also fun when i did: seterrorhandler(geterrorhandler()) |
| 04:22.16 | Legorol | and thereby tainted *all* code, including Blizzard one |
| 04:22.24 | Legorol | so that nothing, not even keybindings, could call movement functions |
| 04:22.34 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 04:22.50 | Legorol | we *did* lose it |
| 04:22.58 | Mikk1 | bah, that one didn't need a fix imo |
| 04:23.02 | Legorol | didn't we? |
| 04:23.04 | Iriel | No |
| 04:23.06 | Iriel | I gave him a fix |
| 04:23.08 | Mikk1 | if i want to break the UI, i can always do it |
| 04:23.12 | Legorol | then i remembered wrong.. |
| 04:23.17 | Legorol | i know slouken said he'll just remove it then |
| 04:23.27 | Iriel | Mikk1: The problem was, seterrorhandler would break the UI, no matter what you passed in |
| 04:23.28 | Legorol | so what's the fix? |
| 04:23.43 | Iriel | The actual error handler is a wrapper |
| 04:23.43 | Mikk1 | well, true, that'd make it a bit pointless |
| 04:23.56 | Iriel | Which fixed a second issue that he was worried about (what if the error handler throws an error) |
| 04:24.06 | Legorol | ok wait a mo |
| 04:24.15 | Iriel | 4The problem was it'd look up the error handler (which was from userspace, and tainted) and add it to the stack for every LUA call |
| 04:24.19 | Iriel | from the C environment |
| 04:24.20 | Legorol | the error handler is _ERRORMESSAGE, defined in Basicsomething.xml isn't it? |
| 04:24.40 | Iriel | So now the error handler in the C environment is a function that looks up the error handler only when an error happens |
| 04:24.59 | Iriel | Legorol : That's the bit we get to see |
| 04:25.40 | Legorol | right, so the default UI starts off with _ERRORMESSAGE as the error handler |
| 04:25.48 | Legorol | so what gets pushed on the stack when it enters Lua? |
| 04:25.50 | Legorol | nothing? |
| 04:25.57 | Legorol | or the C wrapper? |
| 04:26.12 | Iriel | I dont know if _ERRORMESSAGE, or the small wrapper is on the stack as the error handler |
| 04:26.14 | Legorol | i guess i can check that.. |
| 04:26.24 | Iriel | (And i'm using "on the stack" loosely) |
| 04:26.28 | Iriel | I dont know how you COULD check that |
| 04:26.40 | Iriel | Well, I geuss you could taint _ERRORMESSAGE |
| 04:26.46 | Iriel | but I suspect it'll have little to no effect |
| 04:27.05 | Iriel | That wasn't ever a viable means to hook error handlers |
| 04:29.15 | Mikk1 | Then again I suppose that's half the reason why I made wowbench. |
| 04:30.38 | Mikk1 | I should put up my modded version of myDebug |
| 04:31.01 | Mikk1 | I sent lots of patches to Scheid but I've heard nothing back |
| 04:31.20 | Corrodias | OH NOES DERIVATIVE WORK!! |
| 04:31.36 | Mikk1 | Well... if I haven't heard from him in 45 days .... |
| 04:33.04 | Iriel | Have these Blood Elves always been hanging out in Azshara? |
| 04:33.37 | Legorol | not sure |
| 04:33.40 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 04:33.42 | Legorol | i did notice them as well |
| 04:34.06 | Mikk1 | that is to say, there's been blood elves in Azshara for ages. if they're the same ones that you're seeing, I do not know =) |
| 04:34.11 | Mikk1 | lvl51-52ish ones? |
| 04:34.21 | Mikk1 | mages? |
| 04:35.20 | Iriel | the last one was L53, yeah |
| 04:35.35 | Mikk1 | Iriel: There's a world of difference between dumping global data after an error has occured, and being able to inspect local variables in the call stack. |
| 04:36.01 | Iriel | True, but how often do you NEED to see the locals to know what's wrong? |
| 04:36.35 | Mikk1 | print debugging always works of course. it's just so damn much faster to not have to do it =) |
| 04:37.46 | Mikk1 | Legorol: re: editdump. Do you know that there's a variable in config.lua that you can tweak to get automagic stack dumps on errors too? |
| 04:38.42 | zespri | What "show SubTarget" means? |
| 04:41.07 | Mikk1 | erhm .. wait.. CreateFrame and Show()ing... |
| 04:41.19 | Mikk1 | It doesn't actually explicitly show stuff, does it? |
| 04:41.53 | Mikk1 | Erhm wait rephrase... |
| 04:42.31 | Mikk1 | If I'm pulling a template in CreateFrame(), and the template (or one of its parent templates) says "hidden=true", my new frame will not be shown, right? |
| 04:42.39 | Iriel | right |
| 04:42.45 | Iriel | not initially, until you :Show() it |
| 04:42.57 | Mikk1 | of course |
| 04:44.03 | Iriel | And even then it's only visible if its parent is |
| 04:44.10 | Iriel | but that bit I know you know |
| 04:44.12 | Mikk1 | of course, standard rules apply |
| 04:44.22 | Mikk1 | shown != visible |
| 04:44.54 | Iriel | Indeed, though visible => shown |
| 04:45.45 | Mikk1 | Damn, you're just as bad as me =) |
| 04:47.25 | Mikk1 | ohwait.. they're dead to begin with. damn idioms. |
| 04:47.59 | Canislupus | um... idiom sir? |
| 04:48.08 | Canislupus | thank you concorde.. |
| 04:50.36 | Mikk1 | s/if/it/ |
| 04:50.36 | Iriel | It was based heavily on the holy grail |
| 04:50.36 | Mikk1 | I obviously need to watch that one again |
| 04:50.37 | Mikk1 | Was only ~2 years ago or less but it evidently needs a refresher =) |
| 04:50.38 | Canislupus | brave brave concorde, you shall not have died in vain... |
| 04:50.38 | Canislupus | concorde: um... i'm not quite dead yet sir |
| 04:50.38 | Canislupus | then you shall not have been mortally wounded in vain! |
| 04:50.38 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 04:50.38 | Mikk1 | that one i do remember ;) |
| 04:51.01 | Iriel | There are those that call me... Tim |
| 04:51.24 | Canislupus | tim the enchanter |
| 04:51.27 | Fanook|Afk | and then, the animator had a fatal heart attack! |
| 04:51.43 | Iriel | Tim would make an awesome mage on an RP server |
| 04:51.48 | Canislupus | you will find it in the castle ARRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.................. |
| 04:52.02 | Canislupus | "he must have died while carving it" |
| 04:52.11 | Mikk1 | rofl |
| 04:52.17 | Fanook|Afk | you wouldn't carve arrrrggghhh, if you died while carving |
| 04:52.24 | Mikk1 | orly? =P |
| 04:52.32 | Canislupus | ewwww!!! |
| 04:52.43 | Fanook|Afk | no no no, the next line is "well, maybe he was dictating" |
| 04:52.44 | Canislupus | no, no, ARGHH, back of the throat |
| 04:53.08 | Canislupus | lol yeah "perhaps it was dictated" |
| 04:53.12 | Legorol | Iriel and Mikk1, i hate to break your neat little system, but i think with tooltips there was one circumstance under which you could get IsVisible = 1 and IsShown = 0 |
| 04:53.24 | Legorol | i might remember wrong though |
| 04:53.29 | Legorol | would have to dig out my notes to reproduce that |
| 04:53.31 | Iriel | I think you do. |
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| 04:56.01 | Mikk1 | Damnit. I'm being tempted to start toying with http://luaforge.net/projects/iup/ |
| 05:01.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@adsl-212-53-142.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:03.20 | Iriel | It's still so very wrong to be able to fly to ratchet |
| 05:03.23 | Iriel | Handy, but wrong |
| 05:03.53 | Mikk1 | Can the horde use that flightpath also? |
| 05:03.57 | Fanook|Afk | yes |
| 05:04.01 | Mikk1 | Nerf |
| 05:04.09 | Mikk1 | _THREE_ flightpaths in a single zone |
| 05:05.20 | Mikk1 | Could at least chuck an alliance one in southern felwood now imo =P |
| 05:06.02 | Mikk1 | Then again I don't see myself doing a lot of felwood candy gathering anymore with whippers and NDBs on a shared 2 minute timer along with healthstones |
| 05:19.34 | Legorol | why do you need fp at southern felwood? |
| 05:19.39 | Legorol | astranaar is right around the corner.. |
| 05:20.57 | Fanook | not really, it's a decent run |
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| 08:24.52 | ckknight | hey all |
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| 09:29.19 | AnduinLothar | So I made ArcanePartyBars work in raids.. Any suggestion as to what the gui should look like? |
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| 10:03.32 | wereHamster | anyone from Australia here? http://bash.org/?665705 |
| 10:03.55 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 10:20.47 | Kirkburn | Haha, someone has been "repairing vendalism" on the wiki :P |
| 10:20.49 | krka | well, which is it? |
| 10:21.21 | Kirkburn | (people have just got to stop selling articles, y'know) |
| 10:28.21 | Kirkburn | Is it me or does this website look awful to anyone else? http://www.wowwalkthrough.com/ |
| 10:43.37 | zenzelezz | well, not awful, but not very exciting |
| 10:44.18 | Wobin | wereHamster: rofl |
| 10:46.44 | wereHamster | IS it possible to copy text to clipboard in lua? |
| 10:46.53 | wereHamster | in an addon.. |
| 10:53.26 | Kirkburn | Without user input? |
| 10:53.40 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 10:53.45 | Kirkburn | I mean, without the user doing Ctrl+C |
| 10:53.58 | Kirkburn | Could you have a 'copy' button though? |
| 10:54.14 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 10:54.38 | AnduinLothar | copy is not a binding, it's an override |
| 10:54.49 | Kirkburn | Much fun. So the only method is Ctrl+C selected text? |
| 10:55.15 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 10:55.34 | Kirkburn | That help, wereHamster? :) |
| 10:56.39 | wereHamster | yep.. too bad :-/ |
| 10:57.14 | wereHamster | Just thought how I could do real-time data transfer in&out of WoW ;) |
| 10:57.38 | AnduinLothar | just give up |
| 10:58.36 | zenzelezz | isn't the "clipboard" a different concept on most OSes? |
| 10:59.25 | wereHamster | addon generates text, puts it into a textarea, external app sends ctrl+c, uses the text from the clipboard to move the character (optionally puts new text into the clipboard), sends ctrl+v plus a 'commit' key so that the addon knows that new data has arrived.. |
| 11:00.20 | Wobin | hm |
| 11:00.31 | Wobin | does the toc reload on /reload or do we still have to restart? |
| 11:00.44 | wereHamster | no, you need to restart WoW |
| 11:00.44 | AnduinLothar | restart afaik |
| 11:00.47 | Wobin | alas |
| 11:01.08 | Wobin | I thought that was a 1.11 change |
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| 11:51.24 | Kirkburn | I'm a genius ... my journey 2nite exactly coincides with the England-Portugal game :) |
| 12:27.07 | Wobin | this is a good thing? |
| 12:27.15 | Wobin | Good luck to england, btw =) |
| 12:27.29 | zenzelezz | they'll need it >:) |
| 13:19.56 | Kirkburn | heh, I just noticed I haven't had a valid study permit for italy since the start of the year :/ |
| 13:27.40 | Kaelten | good top of the mornin all! |
| 13:33.23 | Kirkburn | heya |
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| 13:47.27 | zenzelezz | "[1. General] [...]: there will be lots soon probably with patch 1.12 coming soon" |
| 13:47.31 | zenzelezz | that sounded a bit optimistic |
| 14:00.09 | Kaelten | lots of what? |
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| 14:00.46 | zenzelezz | they were talking PvP; but that wasn't really the important part |
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| 14:52.03 | MoonWolf | cs #wowace |
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| 16:06.10 | Thrae | Why are doodads special when it comes to GameTooltip:Show? |
| 16:07.58 | Mikk1 | How are they special? (<- wants to know for wowbench) |
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| 16:08.25 | Thrae | Well when you mouse-over a sign or something like that, I believe Blizzard calls those "doodads". |
| 16:08.50 | Thrae | I've found they do not call GameTooltip:Show or GameTooltip:Hide, since I'm hooking both of them. |
| 16:09.05 | Mikk1 | Nothing in the game world calls the lua-world functions |
| 16:09.12 | Mikk1 | Same if you mouse over a unit |
| 16:09.45 | Mikk1 | Mousing over unitframes et al will use the lua-side functions though since it's Lua code that decides to show the tooltip |
| 16:10.33 | Mikk1 | You can probably get some success by setting <OnShow> and <OnHide> handlers on the gametooltip though |
| 16:10.39 | Mikk1 | Those should trigger just fine |
| 16:11.09 | Thrae | No, these doodads do have a Lua part, you can set their appearance from Lua by changing the look of GameTooltip. |
| 16:11.12 | Thrae | Hmmm, good idea. |
| 16:11.51 | Mikk1 | How it works is that the game engine assumes that there is a UI object called "GameTooltip". But when the game engine decides to show a tooltip, it just shows it. It never detours via Lua. |
| 16:12.04 | Thrae | Can you hook event handlers in the same fashion as other functions? GameTooltip.OnShow = MyOnShow? |
| 16:12.05 | Mikk1 | (But it is the XML/Lua side that decides what the tooltip LOOKS like, and how it works) |
| 16:12.11 | Mikk1 | No |
| 16:12.27 | Mikk1 | Well i don't THINK so at least |
| 16:12.33 | Mikk1 | Since they're being called by reference |
| 16:13.18 | Mikk1 | You hook using GetScript()/SetScript() |
| 16:15.27 | Thrae | local GameTooltip_OrigOnShow = GameTooltip:GetScript("OnShow") GameTooltip:SetScript("OnShow", function GameTooltip_OrigOnShow() -- foo end) |
| 16:15.46 | Thrae | Would that work, or would that be infinite recursion? |
| 16:16.43 | Cide | that'd work |
| 16:16.44 | Cide | though |
| 16:17.05 | Cide | you probably want.. function() if ( GameTooltip_OrigOnShow ) then GameTooltip_OrigOnShow() end end or similar |
| 16:17.25 | Cide | since GetScript returns nil if not found |
| 16:17.49 | Thrae | Ah, true |
| 16:17.58 | Thrae | And I just found out GameTooltip has no OnShow handler. |
| 16:18.03 | Thrae | Well, no set one anyway. |
| 16:21.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:35.21 | Mikk1 | For an analogy, consider e.g. buttons inside one of your frames. You call :Show() on your frame to get it shown, but the buttons also get shown, but they never get :Show() called. |
| 16:35.31 | Mikk1 | But <OnShow> fires for all of them |
| 16:36.01 | Legorol | sounds like i jumped into the middle of an interesting conversation :D |
| 16:36.22 | Mikk1 | Nah, just me explaining how GameTooltip doesn't get :Show() called for game-world objects |
| 16:36.24 | Mikk1 | You know all about it already =) |
| 16:37.11 | Cide | oh |
| 16:37.16 | Cide | you can hook GameTooltip.OnShow, sure |
| 16:37.44 | Mikk1 | Hooking On... handlers is never going to do anything useful though |
| 16:37.55 | Cide | err |
| 16:37.58 | Cide | GameTooltip.Show |
| 16:38.22 | Mikk1 | Yeah, Thrae was doing that |
| 16:38.29 | Mikk1 | But realized it didn't work for game-world stuff |
| 16:38.32 | Cide | well you said you can't :) |
| 16:38.42 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 16:38.51 | Cide | or did I misunderstand you? |
| 16:38.59 | Cide | (18:12:27) (Mikk1) Well i don't THINK so at least (18:12:33) (Mikk1) Since they're being called by reference |
| 16:39.02 | Cide | argh. |
| 16:39.06 | Mikk1 | That's On.. handlers |
| 16:39.08 | Cide | nevermind me, I'm stupid. |
| 16:39.16 | Cide | erase this conversation from your memory |
| 16:39.39 | Mikk1 | You're probably as foggy as I am right now, 'tis ok =) |
| 16:40.38 | Thrae | OK, here's the results of Mikk1's training - http://pastebin.ca/76437, and it's doing the same thing |
| 16:40.45 | Thrae | (Showing PvPTexture on doodads) |
| 16:42.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dreamss (i=dreamss@0wn3d.vcdquality.com) |
| 16:43.30 | Mikk1 | Try some debug output in your OnShow handler |
| 16:43.38 | Legorol | ok i'm a bit confused |
| 16:43.45 | Mikk1 | "Reset" = "Show" |
| 16:43.56 | Legorol | afaik, GameTooltip.<OnShow> should still happen, even for gameworld objects |
| 16:44.40 | Mikk1 | Yeah I'm thinking it's a logic problem somewhere else in the code. |
| 16:44.46 | Mikk1 | That handler should deffo get called |
| 16:45.12 | JoshBorke | morning |
| 16:45.16 | Mikk1 | morning josh |
| 16:45.24 | Legorol | there is a small chance that the C engine makes a copy of the reference to the OnShow script |
| 16:45.31 | Legorol | therefore hooking via SetScript will not give you any results |
| 16:45.44 | JoshBorke | speaking of C, have I ever mentioned I hated pointers in C? |
| 16:45.46 | Mikk1 | i'd classify that as a bug though |
| 16:45.48 | Legorol | however, in that case, there are several things you can try |
| 16:46.09 | Legorol | 1) is there already an OnShow handler for the default GameTooltip? if so, does it call a function? you can hook that |
| 16:46.34 | Legorol | 2) If you recreate the GameTooltip dynamically, i.e. destroy the old global Lua name and replace it with a brand-new one with your custom OnShow, does that work? |
| 16:46.39 | Legorol | This 2nd case is actually interesting |
| 16:46.47 | Mikk1 | 1 is not true |
| 16:47.07 | Legorol | especially it would let us know if the C engine calls SetUnit internally on an internal reference of GameTooltip, or whether it gets hold of the Lua global GameTooltip first |
| 16:47.34 | wereHamster | So.. I have a realtime data transfer from WoW to the outside.. now I need to get the data from the outside into WoW and my bot is done :) |
| 16:47.45 | Legorol | wereHamster: you do? |
| 16:47.46 | Thrae | I'd like to know if the 2nd case is true, you could make the GameTooltip a little more efficient with dynamic code. |
| 16:47.47 | JoshBorke | ( wereHamster ): lol |
| 16:47.48 | Legorol | i'd email slouken about it |
| 16:48.10 | wereHamster | nah.. |
| 16:48.26 | Legorol | do you really have real time data transfer output? |
| 16:48.41 | Legorol | must be very trixy, a lot of those holes have been plugged |
| 16:48.43 | Mikk1 | #define realtime "once every 30 or so seconds, with huge lag spikes" |
| 16:48.48 | Legorol | lol |
| 16:48.53 | Legorol | /reloadui |
| 16:49.09 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 16:49.49 | wereHamster | really Realtime |
| 16:50.19 | Legorol | and it doesn't involve fiddling with WoW? i.e. warden won't rip you apart for it? |
| 16:50.29 | wereHamster | nah.. |
| 16:50.42 | Legorol | would you care to share? |
| 16:50.43 | Mikk1 | The easy way would be to have something monitor the viewport and write binary code in the upper left corner or something |
| 16:50.55 | Legorol | yeah that's been discussed before |
| 16:50.59 | Legorol | hook DirectX or something |
| 16:50.59 | Thrae | gaaaaaahhhh |
| 16:51.09 | wereHamster | no.. ho hooking at all |
| 16:51.12 | Mikk1 | pebcak error thrae? =) |
| 16:51.17 | wereHamster | s/ho/no/ |
| 16:51.32 | Tain | It's also been discussed before that this isn't the best place to discuss things you shouldnt' be doing in WoW. |
| 16:51.32 | Legorol | hm, there is another possibility: screenshots! |
| 16:51.36 | Legorol | bit slow, but... works |
| 16:51.36 | wereHamster | no binary.. all in nice text |
| 16:51.49 | Legorol | Tain: that's not entirely accurate |
| 16:51.53 | Mikk1 | Oh wait |
| 16:51.56 | Mikk1 | debug message output |
| 16:52.02 | Legorol | this place *is* used to discuss exploits, for the purpose of reporting them to slouken |
| 16:52.06 | Legorol | Mikk1: that's been plugged |
| 16:52.08 | Mikk1 | oh |
| 16:52.10 | Mikk1 | =( |
| 16:52.18 | Legorol | at least there used to be a hole with that |
| 16:52.24 | Tain | Reporting to slouken is reporting to slouken. Details don't need to be shared here. |
| 16:52.31 | Legorol | that's true |
| 16:52.43 | Legorol | but when working on trying to find a hole, it's often been discussed here |
| 16:52.43 | Mikk1 | too bad. i wouldn't mind having debug message output for some things. |
| 16:52.47 | Mikk1 | debugging related things, that is |
| 16:52.48 | Legorol | and nothing wrong with that imo |
| 16:52.54 | Thrae | http://pastebin.ca/76444 <-- This is the entire small file, and ResetPvPIcon is a local variable |
| 16:52.58 | Legorol | for example, Iriel and I discussed the Lua taint protection at length |
| 16:53.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hyperChipmunk (n=staharaj@d14-69-214-77.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 16:53.17 | zenzelezz | taint protection? |
| 16:53.17 | Tain | One of the reasons we have such good access and support from people like slouken is because we don't (for the most part) set out to do "bad things (tm)" |
| 16:53.22 | krka | ooh... external comm |
| 16:53.24 | krka | do share |
| 16:53.30 | Legorol | Tain: definitely |
| 16:53.41 | Legorol | but there is big difference between finding holes and reporting them, and using them to do "bad things" |
| 16:54.15 | zenzelezz | the problem with sharing here is that you can't guarantee that just because *you* don't intend to misuse it, others might |
| 16:54.16 | Tain | Besides, I've already gotten a 72hour suspension on my account once for testing things like that, no need to tempt me again. ;) |
| 16:54.17 | Thrae | Wait wait...maybe I need to hook OnHide. |
| 16:54.21 | wereHamster | I really am tempted to use it for 'bad things' ;) |
| 16:54.25 | Legorol | zenzelezz: that is correct |
| 16:54.27 | Thrae | Yes, that's what I need to do. |
| 16:54.35 | krka | i need some comm to drive AT |
| 16:54.45 | Legorol | In my opinion, if you have an exploit that works, and needs no further discussion, |
| 16:54.51 | Legorol | then let slouken know direct |
| 16:54.58 | krka | i previously used graphics reading successfully though |
| 16:55.01 | Legorol | once you know he can fix it and will in the near future, or already has, |
| 16:55.03 | Legorol | then share the details here |
| 16:55.08 | Legorol | i think that's acceptable |
| 16:55.25 | Legorol | Also, discussing potential exploits which haven't been verified yet or are not working, is fine |
| 16:55.32 | krka | not all comm-exploits can really be fixed |
| 16:55.40 | Legorol | true |
| 16:55.43 | krka | outside -> wow is easy |
| 16:55.47 | krka | wow -> outside is a bit trickier |
| 16:55.49 | Legorol | you can't have no exploit whatsoever |
| 16:56.03 | Tain | With great power comes great responsibility. |
| 16:56.05 | Mikk1 | wow->outside is the less destructive one though imo |
| 16:56.06 | Legorol | (that was correct grammar, i think) |
| 16:56.11 | krka | reading sound / graphics is your best bet, i suspect |
| 16:56.21 | JoshBorke | use the force luke |
| 16:56.22 | Mikk1 | as long as you're getting data from addonspace that is |
| 16:56.23 | krka | less destructive? |
| 16:56.28 | krka | i disagree |
| 16:56.28 | Legorol | besides, the only reason i ask for exploit details is because: |
| 16:56.33 | Legorol | a) i am very curious, but never use it for bad things |
| 16:56.41 | Legorol | b) allows me to think of new things to try |
| 16:57.02 | Legorol | and the more exploits *we* find, rather than bad people, the better |
| 16:57.02 | Tain | A) is worse in some ways, Legorol. Curiosity gets you in trouble. |
| 16:57.02 | krka | i _am_ bad people :) |
| 16:57.24 | Mikk1 | krka: how is wow->outside alone bad? |
| 16:57.25 | Legorol | Tain: depends a lot on what you do with the information |
| 16:57.32 | Tain | The lure of interesting technology is too much to resist. |
| 16:57.36 | Legorol | ok, for example |
| 16:57.42 | krka | Mikk1 not bad alone, but snice outside -> wow is dirt simple, it's a problem |
| 16:57.47 | Legorol | there were exploits that were discovered as a result of discussions in this channel |
| 16:57.50 | Legorol | they got reported to slouken |
| 16:57.57 | Legorol | i think that's a lot better than someone else coming up with it |
| 16:58.09 | Tain | Not when it comes to WoW, Legorol. Using something they don't want you to in-game can get your account banned regardless of how benign your actions were. |
| 16:58.10 | krka | can just feed wow with keypresses |
| 16:58.17 | krka | that's enough to do whatever you want, basically |
| 16:58.24 | Legorol | Tain: who said anything about using it |
| 16:58.32 | Tain | Curiosity :) |
| 16:58.36 | Legorol | as i repeatedly stressed, i do not use any exploits |
| 16:58.48 | krka | i want to feed mouse-movement instructions from wow to the outside :) |
| 16:58.48 | Legorol | and will not |
| 16:59.06 | Legorol | krka: why go to all the trouble? |
| 16:59.12 | Legorol | afaik, AT works fine with keysmashers |
| 16:59.17 | krka | it does? |
| 16:59.21 | Legorol | yeah |
| 16:59.23 | krka | how? |
| 16:59.27 | Legorol | i have a version that does |
| 16:59.28 | krka | rebinding movement keys? |
| 16:59.32 | Legorol | oh wait |
| 16:59.41 | Legorol | you are right, i haven't tried in ages :) |
| 16:59.42 | krka | hm, rebinding might actually move |
| 16:59.48 | krka | err, work |
| 16:59.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:00.09 | Legorol | krka: not easily |
| 17:00.09 | krka | mash "down", assign down button to move left when you want to move left, assign down to move right when you want to move right |
| 17:00.11 | krka | hm |
| 17:00.24 | Legorol | because you don't know when the binding has actually triggered |
| 17:00.27 | Legorol | since you can't hook it |
| 17:00.34 | krka | do i have to know? |
| 17:00.34 | Legorol | so you can't control it how many times it gets triggered |
| 17:00.51 | Mikk1 | what i'm still not getting though is how getting info out of addonspace could be so bad |
| 17:01.00 | Mikk1 | addons don't know enough about the world anymore |
| 17:01.10 | krka | Mikk1 because then you have two way communication |
| 17:01.10 | krka | which is bad |
| 17:01.13 | Mikk1 | they don't know where mobs are, they don't know what direction the char is facing... |
| 17:01.35 | krka | i can make even better autotravel than the original working one, if i have two way communication |
| 17:01.57 | Mikk1 | how? you don't even know what direction you're moving |
| 17:02.01 | Legorol | yes you do |
| 17:02.02 | Cide | yes you do |
| 17:02.05 | Legorol | krka always knew that |
| 17:02.09 | Legorol | AT did use to work :) |
| 17:02.19 | Mikk1 | there also used to be a GetFacing(), no? |
| 17:02.23 | Legorol | Mikk1, to get your dircetion: |
| 17:02.25 | Legorol | no, not getfacing |
| 17:02.30 | Legorol | you move in a straight line for 0.1 seconds |
| 17:02.33 | Tain | I'd love to get full out-of-game communication to drive custom info to my G15 LCD, which is perfectly benign used to those ends. |
| 17:02.35 | Legorol | draw line between the two points |
| 17:02.37 | Legorol | voila |
| 17:02.49 | Mikk1 | m yeah true the position is too granular |
| 17:02.54 | Cide | what about the minimap model thing? |
| 17:03.01 | Legorol | that's rendered by C |
| 17:03.09 | Legorol | have no access to it, apart from setting it's texture |
| 17:03.13 | Cide | you sure? |
| 17:03.16 | Cide | what about that compass mod |
| 17:03.17 | Legorol | pretty |
| 17:03.21 | Legorol | what does it do? |
| 17:03.25 | Cide | shows your facing |
| 17:03.40 | Wobin | I need a name for a Warlock |
| 17:03.43 | Legorol | are you sure it's not using the method we just described? |
| 17:03.49 | Legorol | i.e. take vector of two points |
| 17:04.08 | Legorol | hmm, does the compass mod work if you stand in one place and rotate? |
| 17:04.10 | Cide | minimapPlayerModel:GetFacing() |
| 17:04.16 | Legorol | you are kidding me! |
| 17:04.21 | Mikk1 | em lol |
| 17:04.30 | Cide | http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2479 |
| 17:04.34 | Tain | GetFacing isn't a very good name for a Warlock. |
| 17:04.39 | Cide | you just iterate through the minimap's children |
| 17:04.41 | Cide | find the model |
| 17:04.48 | Cide | (which does not have a global name) |
| 17:04.51 | Cide | and :GetFacing() |
| 17:05.02 | Legorol | oh wait |
| 17:05.05 | Thrae | Alright, finally fixed that bug, just had to hook OnHide as well. |
| 17:05.17 | Cide | afk for a few though |
| 17:05.23 | Legorol | Cide, that's a method on a PlayerModel widget |
| 17:05.25 | Mikk1 | Thrae: So what was happening? OnShow wasn't being called? |
| 17:05.27 | Legorol | the minimap doesn't involve those |
| 17:05.37 | Legorol | sorry i meant Model widget |
| 17:05.41 | Legorol | i don't see how that could work |
| 17:05.53 | Cide | -- Create a table of all the Minimap's children objectSimpleCompass_Saved. |
| 17:05.53 | Cide | local children = {Minimap:GetChildren()}; |
| 17:05.54 | Mikk1 | Isn't the arrow in the minimap a model? |
| 17:05.59 | Cide | yep |
| 17:06.15 | Cide | check the mod out |
| 17:06.23 | Cide | it's in the SimpleCompass_OnLoad() function |
| 17:06.25 | Cide | now, afk! |
| 17:06.25 | Thrae | Mikk1: Logic error - the boolean wasn't being set to nil when hidden, so the next non-unit tooltip shown would always have it set to true. |
| 17:06.35 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 17:06.59 | Legorol | i can't beleive that works.. |
| 17:07.02 | Legorol | i have to have a look |
| 17:07.13 | Legorol | the Minimap in the blizzard ui code just doesn't define a child of type model |
| 17:07.23 | Thrae | I guess I could also throw a UnitExists("mouseover") to prevent the hooking |
| 17:08.03 | Thrae | But there are rare cases when that returns nil and yet the unit tooltip is set. |
| 17:09.36 | Tain | If I'm calling getglobal() on a bunch of completely different things will I buy anything by making a local copy of the getglobal function? |
| 17:10.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge mjc_ (n=mjc@c-66-176-173-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 17:11.59 | krka | i think they getfacing is semi-new Legorol |
| 17:12.06 | krka | s/they/the/ |
| 17:12.50 | Legorol | krka: the GetFacing is for models though.. |
| 17:12.58 | Legorol | i have to look at compass code to see what it has to do with the minimap |
| 17:13.12 | Legorol | if the minimap uses a model internally, and we have access to it, then it's a loophole |
| 17:13.14 | Mikk1 | Tain: hum? |
| 17:13.45 | Mikk1 | If you want to be efficient, just getfenv(0) and poke around in the array |
| 17:16.24 | Legorol | wow |
| 17:16.27 | Legorol | i see what compass is doing.. |
| 17:16.31 | Legorol | this is scary actually |
| 17:17.00 | Legorol | The Minimap, as defined in the XML, has 6 named children in its <Frames> section |
| 17:17.11 | Mikk1 | Being buttons n stuff yes? |
| 17:17.14 | Legorol | but if you do GetChildren in-game, you receive 9 other, un-named children in addition to those |
| 17:17.27 | Legorol | no, not buttons |
| 17:17.42 | Legorol | stuff like: MiniMapTrackingFrame, MiniMapMeetingStoneFrame, MiniMapPing, MinimapBackdrop |
| 17:17.43 | Mikk1 | Oh sorry Minimap not MinimapFrame |
| 17:17.52 | Mikk1 | oh |
| 17:18.00 | Mikk1 | Well ok that's what i meant |
| 17:18.04 | Legorol | so it seems like the 9 other unnamed children are stuff for holding internal data |
| 17:18.07 | Legorol | and its exposed to us |
| 17:18.12 | Legorol | that is bad, very bad |
| 17:18.22 | Legorol | i will have to see what these 9 objects are |
| 17:18.29 | Mikk1 | That'd be the group blips and city blips and corpse blip then |
| 17:18.41 | Mikk1 | Probably the ping blip also |
| 17:19.10 | Mikk1 | quest NPC blips |
| 17:19.36 | Legorol | can't be, because you can have more than 9 |
| 17:20.36 | Mikk1 | Heh, ya know.... With a known good GetFacing and some knowledge of the camera angle, you could turn e.g. Gatherer into a monster on-screen blip painter |
| 17:20.50 | Mikk1 | Assuming level ground anyway |
| 17:21.46 | Mikk1 | Big effin hunter's marks pointing at those hard-to-find herbs =) |
| 17:22.54 | Legorol | yup |
| 17:23.04 | Legorol | that is doable, so it seems |
| 17:23.12 | Legorol | assuming one of the standard camera positions |
| 17:23.16 | Legorol | anyway, Minimap has 9 unnamed models |
| 17:23.20 | Legorol | god knows what they are all for.. |
| 17:23.42 | Mikk1 | Move them to the center of the screen and :Show them |
| 17:24.01 | Legorol | not a bad idea |
| 17:24.03 | Mikk1 | Assuming they don't get reassigned dynamically that is |
| 17:25.09 | Legorol | nah |
| 17:25.14 | Legorol | one of them is the little arrow |
| 17:25.20 | Legorol | why that is a 3d model just stumps me.. |
| 17:25.25 | Legorol | and we have full Lua access to it |
| 17:25.34 | Legorol | and what's even more curious: |
| 17:25.42 | Legorol | its facing is in the plane of the screen |
| 17:25.59 | zenzelezz | what the heck... my server just went offline again |
| 17:26.05 | Mikk1 | ? plane of the screen? |
| 17:26.12 | Legorol | ok, let's define some axes |
| 17:26.13 | Mikk1 | it's telling you the camera angle? |
| 17:26.17 | Legorol | x to the right |
| 17:26.22 | Legorol | y into the screen |
| 17:26.24 | Legorol | z upwards |
| 17:26.27 | Mikk1 | o |
| 17:26.35 | zenzelezz | Silvermoon's acting odd lately |
| 17:26.43 | Legorol | zenzelezz: yah i just got booted |
| 17:26.44 | Legorol | it's offline |
| 17:27.04 | Legorol | Mikk1: normally a PlayerModel type widget is rotatable about the z axis |
| 17:27.21 | Legorol | i.e. as you rotate it, the person rotates on its feet such that you get to see its back or front etc. |
| 17:27.31 | Legorol | but the minimap arrow rotates about the y axis |
| 17:27.35 | Wobin | this arrow is only x and y? |
| 17:27.39 | Legorol | yes |
| 17:27.51 | Legorol | and as you rotate it, it always stays within the xz plane |
| 17:27.58 | Legorol | Wobin: oops, correction |
| 17:28.01 | Legorol | it's not x and y |
| 17:28.03 | Wobin | xz |
| 17:28.03 | Legorol | it's x and z |
| 17:28.05 | Legorol | yeah |
| 17:28.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge yammygirlcoding (n=hoho@17924061.rjo.virtua.com.br) |
| 17:28.43 | Mikk1 | Makes sense |
| 17:28.44 | yammygirlcoding | good afternoon people! :D |
| 17:28.49 | Mikk1 | The minimap is viewed from above |
| 17:29.00 | Cairenn | hi yammygirlcoding |
| 17:29.02 | Mikk1 | I.e. the character facting == character arrow facing |
| 17:29.30 | Mikk1 | Change camera angle to view the world from above and it all matches |
| 17:29.43 | Mikk1 | If I parsed you correctly anyway |
| 17:30.48 | yammygirlcoding | boys. I'm having an odd bug within one of my addons. When I mouse over an usable item from my bag, Its tooltip shows the name of the closest npc and keep loop 'x dropped by' 6 or 7 times then stops. My errorframe doesnt catch the error. Any idea of which addon could be doin that? |
| 17:31.06 | Thrae | OK, why is string.format mad at me for doing "%" .. percision or "" .. "d" |
| 17:31.33 | Mikk1 | Thrae: That didn't parse. Gifv example. |
| 17:31.41 | Legorol | Mikk1: yes you understood me correctly |
| 17:31.44 | Legorol | but this is intriguing, because |
| 17:31.45 | Cairenn | ... and girls, there's at least one in here, thank you kindly :p |
| 17:31.54 | Legorol | it implies that it's possible which axis to rotate a model about |
| 17:32.00 | yammygirlcoding | another girl here? what a miracle :) |
| 17:32.13 | Cairenn | the other girl here was here before you were :p |
| 17:32.15 | Cairenn | <== |
| 17:32.15 | Legorol | or alternatively, if the axis is fixed, it's possible to rotate the model together with the axis |
| 17:32.27 | Legorol | Cairenn's a girl? zomg.. |
| 17:32.29 | yammygirlcoding | <== too :) |
| 17:32.34 | Legorol | i thought you were a woman, Cairenn... |
| 17:32.41 | Legorol | aye, i know.. girl at heart! |
| 17:32.41 | Cairenn | yeah, well ;) |
| 17:32.44 | Thrae | Mikk1: What's wrong with that? |
| 17:33.04 | Mikk1 | I don't understand what you're asking is what I'm saying |
| 17:33.08 | Mikk1 | Paste me a formatstring |
| 17:33.23 | Fanook | yammy: that sounds like a bug Informant used to have, not sure how they fixed it |
| 17:34.10 | yammygirlcoding | hmmm it started hapening after patch. u think its the same bug? |
| 17:34.18 | Thrae | string.format("%s %s [|cFFFFCC00%" .. p or "" .. "d|r]", ChatMap[k], IsNow, GetDB(k) or Off) |
| 17:34.54 | Thrae | Mikk1: That's been working fine, but add percision into there and it gives me a string.format error. |
| 17:35.11 | Legorol | aha, interesting: |
| 17:35.12 | Legorol | The rotation works like rotating your portrait in the CharacterFrame. Blizzard calculates the axis around which it rotates from the fixed coordinate system of the mesh-file, so you have no influence on this without changing the mesh-file itself. |
| 17:35.19 | Mikk1 | Thrae: What's the precision you're trying to put in there? |
| 17:35.22 | Mikk1 | %d is integer |
| 17:35.32 | Mikk1 | if you want floating point, use %f |
| 17:35.34 | Fanook | yammy: could be. dont know which addon adds the "dropped by" info to the tooltip |
| 17:35.35 | Thrae | Ohhh |
| 17:35.39 | Thrae | Gotcha |
| 17:36.18 | yammygirlcoding | Fanook!! i disabled informat and the bug is gone!! \o/ love u ! :D |
| 17:36.55 | Wobin | Fanook: Doesn't Mendeleev do that? |
| 17:37.13 | Fanook | dont know, i always just pop up thottbot for info on who drops what |
| 17:37.24 | Legorol | Thrae: check operator precedence |
| 17:37.29 | Legorol | i'm pretty sure .. is higher than or |
| 17:37.40 | Mikk1 | Thrae: But if you use %f, you probably want ot use: .. (p or "%.0") .. |
| 17:37.44 | Mikk1 | Legorol has a point too |
| 17:37.45 | Legorol | so what you are doing is effectivley ("%s %s [|cFFFFCC00%" .. p) or ("" .. "d|r]") |
| 17:38.21 | Legorol | the fix is to put brackets like "%s %s [|cFFFFCC00%" .. (p or "") .. "d|r]" |
| 17:38.37 | Legorol | oh that's what Mikk1 said as well, d'oh |
| 17:38.49 | Mikk1 | Except I just wrote it out of habit |
| 17:38.54 | Mikk1 | I didn't think of precedence |
| 17:39.00 | yammygirlcoding | ah wait! MentalPower is here! =^^= |
| 17:39.01 | Mikk1 | Handy habit =) |
| 17:39.12 | Legorol | yeah i never remember precedence rules |
| 17:39.17 | Legorol | so i use brackets whenever in doubt |
| 17:39.23 | Thrae | It's just a chat function, I made it send the number type as d or f. |
| 17:39.24 | Legorol | i also beleive it makes code more readable anyway |
| 17:39.33 | Mikk1 | aye |
| 17:39.59 | Mikk1 | That is to say, I'm pretty good with C precedence. But Lua sort of hurts my head for some reason. |
| 17:40.05 | Mikk1 | So excessive brackets ftw |
| 17:40.05 | Legorol | <Legorol> yeah i never remember precedence rules <= not quite true, i did remember .. and or |
| 17:40.55 | Mikk1 | and or? =) |
| 17:41.08 | Mikk1 | ~emulate PITA |
| 17:41.11 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: the problem you described, do you have MobInfo? |
| 17:41.14 | Legorol | or one of its variants |
| 17:41.17 | Legorol | sounds like it's the problem |
| 17:41.21 | yammygirlcoding | I have mobinfo2 |
| 17:41.24 | Legorol | yeah |
| 17:41.24 | zenzelezz | my LFG channel is like watching football with the 30 people you hate most all talking at the same time |
| 17:41.26 | Legorol | try disabling it |
| 17:41.36 | yammygirlcoding | but was was mousing over an item, not a mob O.o |
| 17:41.37 | Legorol | zenzelezz: lol |
| 17:41.44 | Legorol | do you actually get football discussion in htere |
| 17:41.47 | Legorol | i often do :) |
| 17:41.52 | Legorol | and it's annoying :( |
| 17:42.02 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: lateral thinking ftw |
| 17:42.19 | zenzelezz | it's not so much discussion... more "zomg <someone> suxx" "no u suxx" "ALL USE GENERAL!!1" "lol" |
| 17:42.35 | Legorol | mobinfo has a feature where if you mouse over an item, it tells you which mob drops taht item |
| 17:42.40 | Legorol | it sounds like that feature is bugging |
| 17:42.42 | yammygirlcoding | aaah |
| 17:43.00 | Legorol | i was in an electronics store this afternoon |
| 17:43.10 | Legorol | rows and rows of plasma TVs |
| 17:43.11 | yammygirlcoding | its odd, cause its replacing the item name by an npc name, and looping the 'dropped by' thing a few times |
| 17:43.15 | Legorol | i picked the wrong time... |
| 17:43.24 | Legorol | the England - Portugal (or whatever) match just started |
| 17:43.31 | Legorol | the store went empty, only the store personnel staying |
| 17:43.35 | Legorol | and they were all glued to the screens |
| 17:43.38 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 17:43.40 | yammygirlcoding | lol |
| 17:43.53 | Mikk1 | "can I speak to your manager?" |
| 17:43.55 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: was it mobinfo? |
| 17:43.59 | Mikk1 | "Umm,, yeah, he says he'll be out in a couple of hours" |
| 17:44.02 | Legorol | Mikk1: the manager was the one watching it more avidly |
| 17:44.26 | Legorol | it was so bad actually, i was the one feeling guilty for distracting them and asking questions |
| 17:44.45 | Mikk1 | heh yeah I get that too. sometimes I wish I was more of an asshole. |
| 17:44.47 | yammygirlcoding | who |
| 17:44.47 | Mikk1 | it'd be handy |
| 17:44.59 | Legorol | i am an asshle, it helps a lot... i just get guilty about being one |
| 17:45.01 | yammygirlcoding | who won the game? i swicthed chanel and saw the red shirts celabrating |
| 17:45.09 | Legorol | i have no idea |
| 17:45.11 | Mikk1 | then you're not a true asshole =P |
| 17:45.15 | Legorol | i tried to keep my back to the screens at all times |
| 17:45.54 | Legorol | i did get a new HDD-equipped DVD recorder as a gift |
| 17:46.04 | Legorol | for TV, not PC |
| 17:46.28 | yammygirlcoding | ah portugal won :) the coach is a brasilian guy , that's why he was familiar to me :) |
| 17:46.39 | Legorol | oh my god, i better not go outside tonight then |
| 17:46.42 | Legorol | it'll be murder |
| 17:46.49 | yammygirlcoding | i was like 'hmm i've seen this guy some time' |
| 17:47.42 | yammygirlcoding | hmm Legorol my darling, i disabled mobinfo2 and enable informant. The bug didnt happened too :) So should I go yell at mobinfo coder? :) |
| 17:47.55 | Legorol | well, the thing is, i also have mobinfo2 |
| 17:48.01 | Legorol | although i don't have that feature enabled |
| 17:48.14 | Legorol | do yell at him, but it could be a multi-addon conflict |
| 17:48.15 | zenzelezz | my version of Informant doesn't say anything about who drops what |
| 17:48.19 | yammygirlcoding | hehe |
| 17:48.24 | Legorol | be careful about which addon you blame for tooltip bugs, they are notoriously nasty |
| 17:48.36 | Legorol | zenzelezz: it's not informant, it's mobinfo2 |
| 17:48.42 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: for now, just disable that particular option |
| 17:48.44 | Thrae | Legorol: So I have found =/ |
| 17:48.52 | Legorol | i don't remember how exactly, but it must be there somwehere |
| 17:49.05 | Legorol | what's the blush about? |
| 17:49.07 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol couldnt find where the bug is to fix? I know you can :) |
| 17:49.18 | Legorol | well.. tbh, i probably could |
| 17:49.22 | Legorol | but have no time atm :( |
| 17:49.33 | Legorol | i se |
| 17:49.35 | Legorol | see even |
| 17:49.56 | MoonWolf | the internet get rid of shyness pretty fast |
| 17:49.56 | Legorol | just make sure you don't get pushed around by the outspoken bunch here |
| 17:49.58 | yammygirlcoding | I don't know much of lua . but if it triggered any error, I could try fix it |
| 17:50.06 | Legorol | people in here can get pretty... opinionated |
| 17:50.08 | Legorol | starting with me :) |
| 17:50.20 | Legorol | it's not a syntax error per-se |
| 17:50.22 | Legorol | or a nil-value error |
| 17:50.23 | krka | whoa, you're COMPLETELY and UTTERLY wrong about that Legorol! |
| 17:50.25 | Legorol | it's just a code bug |
| 17:50.32 | yammygirlcoding | but the thing is that it just dont error :( |
| 17:50.45 | krka | why, i feel like having a drawn out argument about how wrong you are |
| 17:50.45 | Legorol | krka, thanks for creating a self-contradictory statement to illustrate your point |
| 17:50.46 | yammygirlcoding | and i have no idea where to look for |
| 17:50.56 | Legorol | not all bugs throw errors i'm afraid |
| 17:50.57 | Mikk1 | ~emulate Saien |
| 17:50.59 | purl | Slash commands are ameturish. |
| 17:51.00 | zenzelezz | well, it doesn't sound like an *error*... just a conflict |
| 17:51.22 | yammygirlcoding | any chance anyone here knows the mobinfo coder ? :) |
| 17:51.38 | yammygirlcoding | 'skeeve' i guess |
| 17:51.43 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: could you try a few things for me |
| 17:51.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Canislupus (n=Canislup@68-185-211-193.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com) |
| 17:51.49 | Legorol | maybe i can give you some pointers then |
| 17:51.53 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol sure darling :) |
| 17:52.01 | Legorol | try and track down which addon is conflicting with mobinfo |
| 17:52.07 | Legorol | first, enable only mobinfo, see if yous till get the problem |
| 17:52.14 | Legorol | next, enable tooltip related addons one at a time |
| 17:52.17 | yammygirlcoding | \me tries |
| 17:52.26 | Legorol | see which combination gives you the error |
| 17:52.36 | Legorol | but be prepared, it's possible you need a combination of more than 2 addons |
| 17:52.41 | Canislupus | can someone explain to me from their perspective, just WHAT exactly SVN does, please? I would like to see if i am understanding it correctly |
| 17:52.47 | Legorol | i had a reallly annoying tooltip error at some point which needed 4 addons together to appear |
| 17:53.00 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol I have informant, mobinfo. Anyother else is related? |
| 17:53.02 | Legorol | Canislupus: it has two main features, which are somewaht independent |
| 17:53.10 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: EquipCompare, if you use it |
| 17:53.16 | Legorol | tipbuddy, etc. |
| 17:53.32 | Legorol | Canislupus: on one hand, it allows you to version your files |
| 17:53.39 | krka | yeah, don't activate EC, it's a piece of crap that always causes problems :( |
| 17:53.40 | Legorol | meaning it keeps copies of all previous versions |
| 17:53.53 | Legorol | and you can go back to any version at any time, and it can display differences betwen any two version |
| 17:54.04 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol I disabled Informant, and enabled mobinfo. nothing bugs |
| 17:54.04 | Legorol | i actually agree, krka |
| 17:54.12 | yammygirlcoding | I let all the others on |
| 17:54.14 | Canislupus | and it is transparent to other apps, like wow, right? |
| 17:54.16 | Legorol | i had to fight many crappy errors in EC |
| 17:54.23 | Legorol | it has nothing to do with WoW |
| 17:54.26 | Legorol | or any application |
| 17:54.29 | krka | i don't even agree with myself |
| 17:54.29 | Fanook | can you suggest an alternative to EC? |
| 17:54.39 | Legorol | the other use of it is that multiple people can work on the same set of files |
| 17:54.53 | Legorol | and it helps resolve conflicts when more than one person edited the same file |
| 17:55.00 | Legorol | so its great for collaboration |
| 17:55.01 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol equipcompare, tipbuddy, and mobinfo works together. ( that reminds me of combinatory analisys from math class ) |
| 17:55.27 | Legorol | the two features go hand in hand, Canislupus |
| 17:55.30 | Canislupus | Yammy, are you getting the stuck tooltip in the upper right hand corner of the screen? |
| 17:55.42 | Legorol | what usually happens that each time a coder makes a change to the files under version control, it's considered a new version |
| 17:55.48 | Legorol | the technical term is "revision" |
| 17:56.05 | Legorol | a revision could be something as simple as a single line change |
| 17:56.08 | krka | i can help you out yammygirlcoding ... but i need hot pix for uh... debugging purposes |
| 17:56.08 | yammygirlcoding | its not stuck. its looping some 'droped by' text into the item's tooltip |
| 17:56.16 | Legorol | the way SVN is organised is that the files are stored in a repository |
| 17:56.24 | Canislupus | Legerol: Does it automatically check an internet address where the source of the files is located? |
| 17:56.25 | zenzelezz | it's amazing how just reading LFG/Yells after a match suddenly expands my mental do-not-team-with list by a whole bunch of players |
| 17:56.26 | Legorol | from the repository, you get a local copy, which is called the "working copy" |
| 17:56.43 | krka | mine is always called the "broken copy" |
| 17:56.44 | Legorol | the process of contacting a repository and getting a working copy is called "checking out" |
| 17:56.45 | krka | not sure why :( |
| 17:56.50 | Legorol | lol krka |
| 17:57.00 | Legorol | you then work on your local working copy |
| 17:57.08 | krka | .. or broken copy := |
| 17:57.12 | Legorol | when you are happy with your changes, you submit it back to the repository, which is called "checking in" |
| 17:57.21 | krka | or "commit"-ing |
| 17:57.25 | Thrae | http://pastebin.ca/76483 <-- ok, why am I getting that error, I know it's something simple |
| 17:57.26 | Legorol | yeah that too |
| 17:57.26 | Canislupus | REPOSITORY... by that you mean, the author's copies (from the internet) in our case? |
| 17:57.37 | Legorol | well if the author runs an SVN, yes |
| 17:57.43 | krka | could be a local repository too |
| 17:57.47 | krka | on the same computer |
| 17:57.49 | Legorol | krka: i iwill ocme to that |
| 17:57.57 | Legorol | yeah as krka said, you can use SVN for personal use |
| 17:58.07 | Legorol | in which case, you would have both the repository and the working copy on your hard disk |
| 17:58.11 | Legorol | but the two are still distinct entities |
| 17:58.22 | Legorol | you never manually touch the repository, which is a database storing all revisions of the files |
| 17:58.27 | Mikk1 | http://subversion.tigris.org/ <- here |
| 17:58.45 | Canislupus | Well, the reason i bring it up, is because SCCN has been automatically set up by SVN in my wow/interface/add-ons directory |
| 17:59.20 | Canislupus | and i assumed SVN must have decided on it's own that they are the same files |
| 17:59.39 | Mikk1 | not likely |
| 17:59.58 | Canislupus | but it may only be that it is reading the invisible metadata off the files in that directory, and nothing else |
| 18:00.05 | zenzelezz | SCCN? |
| 18:00.33 | Canislupus | Sci's Color Chat Nicks? |
| 18:00.47 | Canislupus | spelling may not be correct |
| 18:01.06 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol It's odd. I was with mobinfo and informant on - bug. Turned off informant or mobinfo - no nobug. turned on both again , and now the bug doesnt happen |
| 18:03.16 | Legorol | hehe |
| 18:03.20 | Legorol | looks like you "fixed" it :) |
| 18:03.30 | Canislupus | I apologize for tapping you for the info i was too lazy to read off the SVN website. But you did put it in a better light, Thanks! |
| 18:04.08 | Thrae | Alright, it's obvious to me now that "(%f)" is not the correct syntax for grabbing a float with string.find. |
| 18:04.19 | Legorol | it's not |
| 18:04.21 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol lol! it cant fix by itself! lol! the addon got scared to be fixed by us and self fixed first?? omfg |
| 18:04.28 | Legorol | %f is not a recognized regex expression |
| 18:04.41 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: exactly! what, you don't beleive me? |
| 18:04.46 | Legorol | addons have life of their own.. |
| 18:04.50 | krka | also, lua doesn't use regex |
| 18:04.51 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 18:04.51 | Mikk1 | Isn't %f the frontier pattern? |
| 18:05.00 | Legorol | nope |
| 18:05.02 | Mikk1 | %F? |
| 18:05.13 | yammygirlcoding | Legorol lol!! I will try log other alts to see there ;) |
| 18:05.14 | Legorol | Lua's find isn't standard grep/egrep regex |
| 18:05.22 | krka | don't think there is one |
| 18:05.23 | Thrae | Yeah, silly me. |
| 18:05.32 | krka | not just non-standard - it's not any form of regular expression |
| 18:05.32 | Legorol | %f and %F are nothing |
| 18:05.39 | Legorol | what do you man |
| 18:05.39 | Mikk1 | http://lua-users.org/wiki/FrontierPattern |
| 18:05.39 | krka | i think |
| 18:05.40 | Legorol | *mean |
| 18:05.41 | Mikk1 | It's "%f" |
| 18:05.43 | Legorol | it *is* regex |
| 18:05.44 | kergoth | ~mornings |
| 18:05.45 | purl | Mornings MUST be destroyed! (see also http://www.destroymornings.com/) |
| 18:05.49 | Legorol | you can do .* and .+ etc. |
| 18:05.53 | kergoth | ~botsnack |
| 18:05.53 | purl | :), kergoth |
| 18:06.11 | Legorol | krka: maybe my definition of the word "regular expression" is incorrect.. |
| 18:06.19 | Legorol | i know it's non-standard, but i still beleive it is a regular expression |
| 18:06.26 | krka | hm, i could be wrong actually |
| 18:06.28 | krka | i'll go verify |
| 18:06.36 | Legorol | you even have captures in Lua |
| 18:06.45 | Legorol | and backreferences to captures |
| 18:07.35 | Legorol | the thing that's Lua missing that'd be sorely needed is grouping, together with the or (usually |) |
| 18:07.42 | krka | hmm... |
| 18:07.47 | Legorol | so that you can do find("(foo)|(bar)") |
| 18:07.47 | krka | does lua patterns have "or"? |
| 18:07.50 | Legorol | which you can't at the moment |
| 18:07.56 | Legorol | no it has no "or" |
| 18:07.58 | Legorol | annoyingly |
| 18:08.05 | krka | ah, then it's not a regular expression |
| 18:08.08 | Mikk1 | i was on my way to implementing it |
| 18:08.17 | Mikk1 | but realized it was a LOT of work to make it 100% regex |
| 18:08.19 | Legorol | krka: is "or" one of the requisites? |
| 18:08.21 | krka | afair, there are three properties that define regular expression |
| 18:08.26 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:08.31 | Legorol | i take your word for that one |
| 18:08.32 | kergoth | i consider a 'regular expression' that which is POSIX compliant, myself, but i may be alone in that |
| 18:08.38 | kergoth | :P |
| 18:08.39 | krka | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression |
| 18:08.45 | Legorol | kergoth: you probably are :) |
| 18:08.47 | krka | alternation |
| 18:08.47 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.00 | krka | grouping |
| 18:09.00 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.04 | krka | quantification |
| 18:09.14 | kergoth | yeah... i'm also alone in avoiding any and all fancy shell/bash stuff to ensure that my scripts are compliant with the single unix specification version 3 |
| 18:09.26 | Canislupus | I am getting the impression that if the original author releases a new version of the MOD, i will have the opportunity, with SVN to automatically keep my files up to date. Am i reading way too much into this? |
| 18:09.47 | Mikk1 | automatically = you need to run svn update. but yeah. |
| 18:09.53 | kergoth | svn can do that, yes, but generally -active- development occurs on svn, so you can end up with newer versions than releases. keep that in mind. |
| 18:10.01 | Mikk1 | and buggy ones |
| 18:10.15 | kergoth | quite |
| 18:10.16 | Legorol | krka, i apologise to point this out, but above those 3 properties, you can read this line: |
| 18:10.17 | Legorol | "Most formalisms provide the following operations to construct regular expressions. |
| 18:10.24 | Canislupus | ie= alpha and beta releases |
| 18:10.28 | Legorol | that doesn't sound like a *requirement* to me |
| 18:10.34 | Thrae | Hmmm, if I do _,_,n = string.find(msg, getglobal(opt) .. " (%d)", 1), this always returns 0. Bah, I'll just divide it by 100. |
| 18:10.38 | Legorol | yammygirlcoding: that's my telekinetic abilities |
| 18:10.48 | Canislupus | lol |
| 18:10.51 | krka | does to me |
| 18:11.07 | Mikk1 | Thrae: that's just a single digit |
| 18:11.15 | krka | to me, that sounds like there may be another equivalent set of requirements that also work |
| 18:11.23 | Mikk1 | Are you sure you didn't mean (%d+) ? |
| 18:11.27 | kergoth | Legorol, it can't be a requirement, as there's no formal definition of what a regular expression is, afaik. in my opinion, if you throw a perl programmer in front of a regular expression implementation, and he isnt able to be effective in his use of it, it isnt a regular expression :P |
| 18:12.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|home (i=andrew@124.197.12.53) |
| 18:12.10 | Legorol | actually, the formal theory section of the page does seem to imply those 3 properties are a requirement |
| 18:12.17 | MoonWolf | kergoth, hehe. |
| 18:12.18 | Legorol | it just wasn't that clear from the lay-man's definition |
| 18:12.27 | MoonWolf | isnt there a posix standard of regex ? |
| 18:12.33 | Thrae | Mikk1: Ah, touche. |
| 18:12.41 | Canislupus | would be neat to have a setting in SVC that would only allow stable builds to be updated |
| 18:12.44 | krka | yes there is |
| 18:13.03 | kergoth | there is, yes. thats where the regcomp/regexec C library functions come from ;) |
| 18:13.28 | krka | which included regular expressions on a theoretical level |
| 18:13.31 | Legorol | Canislupus: in a way there is |
| 18:13.42 | Legorol | version control systems such as SVN allow for "branching" |
| 18:13.58 | krka | LOL |
| 18:14.01 | Legorol | which means take the current revision, and split it off and form two parallel branches which can be modified independently |
| 18:14.02 | MoonWolf | krka, regex is not something I can do in theory well |
| 18:14.05 | krka | i just read one of our support mails |
| 18:14.05 | Canislupus | well i will definately study deeper... its a remarkable tool to have.... |
| 18:14.14 | Thrae | Mikk1: Ah nope, (%d+) still catches only 0 |
| 18:14.15 | krka | the guy actually responded to your automatic reply |
| 18:14.17 | Legorol | Canislupus: could you explain what are you using it for at the moment? |
| 18:14.20 | MoonWolf | usually I write something, change it 15 times, rewrite it, tweak that. and then it works. |
| 18:14.27 | Thrae | Mikk1: Looks like (%d+) doesn't include . as a digit? |
| 18:14.28 | krka | which stated: "This is an automated reply... et.c." |
| 18:14.34 | Legorol | are you just using it to get hold of an addon published by an author ? |
| 18:15.00 | krka | %d is typically the set [0123456789] |
| 18:15.10 | Canislupus | experimentation for the most part, I am only barely getting my feet wet in Add-on development |
| 18:15.11 | Legorol | in Lua, it is |
| 18:15.17 | Legorol | in other regexes, %d is nothing ;-) |
| 18:15.23 | Legorol | or rather, it's the literal % and d |
| 18:15.34 | krka | depends on which regex you're using :P |
| 18:15.47 | Legorol | anyways, there's a poor soul needing help over on #cosmostesters |
| 18:15.50 | Legorol | i'll be back |
| 18:15.52 | Legorol | or not |
| 18:16.03 | krka | you can't write a lua pattern for that! ;) |
| 18:16.12 | krka | (i'll be back|not) |
| 18:16.43 | kergoth | posix defines named groups. [:alpha:] for example, is the named character class |
| 18:16.56 | kergoth | thatd be the posix equivalent of some of lua's bits |
| 18:17.06 | kergoth | bleh, i need more caffeine |
| 18:17.41 | Legorol | i hate that named group thingy |
| 18:17.45 | Canislupus | do i get the impression Legerol was going to say i shouldn't be using SVC unless i am authoring code? |
| 18:17.52 | Legorol | and especially the fact that i always forget that you need TWO square brackets |
| 18:18.02 | Legorol | i.e. [[:alpha:]] etc. |
| 18:18.09 | Legorol | Canislupus: nope, not true |
| 18:18.13 | Legorol | i was just curious what you are doing with it |
| 18:18.22 | kergoth | well, it makes a certain amount of sense. |
| 18:18.23 | Legorol | you can use the SVN client to keep your copy updated |
| 18:18.35 | kergoth | [] is a character class. [:alpha:] is a group of characters you can use in the character class |
| 18:18.35 | Legorol | kergoth: yes i know how it works, i just always forget :) |
| 18:18.37 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:18.39 | krka | SVTC? Society of Vacuum Coaters? |
| 18:18.40 | Legorol | yes i do understand |
| 18:18.50 | Legorol | ~lart krka |
| 18:18.58 | kergoth | ~emulate chris |
| 18:18.59 | purl | There's this game where you put in a dollar and you win four quarters. I win every time! |
| 18:19.03 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:19.07 | krka | Stanford Validity Checker? |
| 18:19.15 | krka | Computer Hardware and Cooling? |
| 18:19.18 | Canislupus | almost a shame there isn't a lightweight version for end-users to keep their files up-to date, but i suppose that is not really the purpose of it |
| 18:19.20 | krka | Southern Vermont College? |
| 18:19.53 | kergoth | svn, is, like every other scm tool, a tool to manage source and retain history. it isnt an application delivery system for end users, it just happens to be useful in that capacity as well |
| 18:19.59 | yammygirlcoding | i know its a stupid question, but anyone have already tried a stealth run to scholo lab alone? |
| 18:20.24 | yammygirlcoding | possible? |
| 18:20.31 | krka | switched virtual circuit? |
| 18:21.32 | Canislupus | well i installed TortoiseSVN and it seems quite user-friendly. I am very impressed. Beats the hell out of Visual Studio versioning utils imho |
| 18:21.57 | krka | aye, Tortoise is pretty good |
| 18:22.03 | krka | slows down explorer a bit though |
| 18:22.34 | Canislupus | i suspect that would worsen with more versions out there as well |
| 18:23.07 | Legorol | nope |
| 18:23.15 | Legorol | it's independent of the amount of revisions |
| 18:23.31 | Canislupus | if Longhorn was what it should be, they would be adding things like this to the OS, not FAWKIN 3d desktops and crap |
| 18:23.35 | Legorol | all that Tortoise does is contact the repository, and asks to receive the latest revision, if necessary |
| 18:23.53 | Legorol | when you execute the SVN Update command |
| 18:24.03 | Legorol | the thing that's slowing down explorer is actually displaying those green tickmarks |
| 18:24.14 | Canislupus | so it doesnt store old versions when i overwrite like i thought it would? |
| 18:25.07 | Canislupus | again, sorry.. I will RTFM |
| 18:25.13 | kergoth | old versions are in the upstream repository, and versions only go to upstream when you commit. all the local working copy has is metadata about the remote repository, and safe copies of the checked out files in case you hose them so it can revert without contacting the svn repo |
| 18:25.53 | Canislupus | but only if the author used SVN in the first place... |
| 18:26.20 | Canislupus | otherwise the metadata doesn't exist, i assume? |
| 18:26.25 | krka | obviously |
| 18:26.33 | kergoth | if the author didnt, tortoisesvn is irrelevent. only svn check outs have .svn directories |
| 18:27.33 | yammy | nick yammygirlcoding_atwow |
| 18:27.43 | yammygirlcoding_ | grrrrrrrrr |
| 18:28.02 | Cairenn | just put yammy_atwork :p |
| 18:28.09 | Canislupus | i see a future killer app in directory/file versioning across the entire OS, not just SVN check-outs |
| 18:28.15 | yammygirlcoding_ | :p |
| 18:28.30 | Canislupus | of course storage has a long way to go before that is feasable |
| 18:28.33 | yammy_atwow | ah good :) |
| 18:29.40 | Legorol | Canislupus: such things exist already in the Unix world :) |
| 18:29.46 | Canislupus | but i suppose MS is trying to move that direction (in its own, haphazard way) with Vista |
| 18:29.49 | krka | people tend to use rcs for that |
| 18:29.53 | Legorol | besides, you can in theory just put your whole hard disk under SVN control :) |
| 18:30.02 | Legorol | krka: i use rcs, hehe |
| 18:30.08 | Legorol | works nicely with emacs |
| 18:30.11 | krka | ah, but where would the repository be? |
| 18:30.19 | Canislupus | yeah you are referring to Journaling File Systems, i assume Leg? |
| 18:30.19 | Legorol | on another hard disk, obviously |
| 18:30.27 | Legorol | nope |
| 18:30.29 | krka | but what if you want to version control that too? |
| 18:30.36 | Legorol | krka: then you get another hard disk |
| 18:30.43 | Legorol | and yes, another one.. |
| 18:30.45 | Legorol | and another one.. |
| 18:30.47 | Legorol | hard disk galore! |
| 18:31.01 | Legorol | and when you have 10, you use the 1st one to store the repo for the 10th |
| 18:31.01 | kergoth | i use rcs to maintain the individual deltas for backup purposes (i :w a lot), then commit to svn as well regularly |
| 18:31.03 | krka | hmm... i should experiment with checking out the repository directory |
| 18:31.08 | kergoth | the rcs is checked in automatically on write in vim |
| 18:31.09 | krka | and keep commiting |
| 18:31.14 | Legorol | kergoth: that's roughly what i do |
| 18:31.22 | Legorol | i just do it manually, but frequently |
| 18:31.30 | Canislupus | we are almost in an era where that is feasable, with 1TB hard drives available for mainstream consumption |
| 18:31.33 | Legorol | i often put in experimental changes to the code, oneliners etc. |
| 18:31.35 | Legorol | then forget about them :) |
| 18:31.44 | kergoth | if i did it manually, i'd ditch rcs completely and just svn everything. my personal svn is on a remote VM, kergoth.com |
| 18:31.47 | kergoth | safer there than here |
| 18:31.48 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:32.53 | krka | i need to get myself a reliable SVN server |
| 18:33.10 | krka | i lose too much code due to sloppiness |
| 18:33.17 | kergoth | i think i pay like $10 a month for the vm that runs kergoth.com |
| 18:33.56 | Canislupus | SVN is intended as a direct replacement for CVS? Or does it fall short? |
| 18:34.13 | kergoth | its superior to cvs in nearly every way. |
| 18:34.28 | kergoth | cvs cant merge worth a shit, svn does so happily. cvs cant track renames/moves, svn can just fine |
| 18:34.34 | kergoth | cvs's tagging is limited, svn's tagging and branching is just a copy |
| 18:34.38 | kergoth | etc |
| 18:35.22 | Canislupus | i would be happy enough if it tracked explorer file overwrites and moves for me |
| 18:35.28 | kergoth | ? |
| 18:35.55 | Canislupus | say, for instance i overwrite custom_duf.lua |
| 18:36.14 | kergoth | it knows you did, and can revert your changes at any time, and an update will merge their changes with yours. |
| 18:36.17 | Canislupus | by copying and older version in windows explorer to that directory |
| 18:36.17 | kergoth | i think you need to read more. |
| 18:36.26 | Canislupus | yah, i do |
| 18:36.30 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:36.34 | Canislupus | 8-) |
| 18:37.05 | Canislupus | "it is better to be quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" |
| 18:37.26 | krka | i soooo don't follow that motto :( |
| 18:38.08 | Canislupus | lol me neither, but i constantly repeat it in my head when i am removing doubt |
| 18:41.26 | Canislupus | so, if i might trouble you all, what mods are/have you authored (ie what name do i associate with what mods?) |
| 18:41.42 | Canislupus | for conversational purposes only |
| 18:43.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaiden (n=kaiden@63.251.174.3) |
| 18:43.26 | krka | complete list of published / finished: rangemele, autotravel, maplibrary, for all indents and purposes |
| 18:43.45 | krka | all the others have like 30 addons each :P |
| 18:44.14 | kaiden | Anyone know of any working php parsers out there for lua data, i'm trying to get something as an addon in game that does a loop when i tell it to and extracts all guild member info as well as all bag info, and then when you open the mailbox all mailbox info and when you open the bank all bank info |
| 18:44.23 | kaiden | and then just shove it into a database via a php script |
| 18:44.35 | kaiden | so i can call it later, but all of the profilers seem to be broken in various ways |
| 18:45.10 | krka | why not simply run lua from php? |
| 18:45.35 | wereHamster | kaiden, fix them |
| 18:46.07 | kergoth | you did autotravel? god i miss that. i still have all my routes in a .lua somewhere around here |
| 18:46.12 | kaiden | well i'm on the verge of just writing my own, but i didn't want to reinvent the wheel |
| 18:47.19 | krka | heh, i have my routes too |
| 18:47.47 | krka | $ wc AutoTravel.lua.bak |
| 18:47.47 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.37 | krka | hm, maybe i could run AutoIt through wine |
| 18:50.06 | kergoth | AutoIt? |
| 18:50.17 | krka | it's a program for automating tasks in windows |
| 18:50.30 | krka | it can sends key events and stuff to windows |
| 18:50.48 | kergoth | ahh |
| 18:52.00 | Canislupus | FAIAP is a nice mod, krka |
| 18:52.05 | wereHamster | make a AutoTravel keybinding and generate this one keyevent over and over :) |
| 18:52.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@68.63.3.183) |
| 18:52.16 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.16 | krka | i did that |
| 18:52.24 | krka | then blizzard stopped that from working either |
| 18:52.33 | wereHamster | does work for me :) |
| 18:52.40 | krka | you can use autotravel now? |
| 18:53.07 | krka | basically, the problem is now: how do i know what key event to generate? |
| 18:53.09 | wereHamster | nah.. but the fake key events work for me |
| 18:53.21 | Thrae | Mikk1: Aha! Get this -- OnShow and OnHide are NOT called if you move your mouse from one object with a tooltip to another. If that object is a doodad, nothing in the Lua environment is called or set as far as I can tell. |
| 18:53.52 | krka | the problem is that we arent' allowed to call the movement functions anymore |
| 18:54.04 | krka | so you have to directly generate the keyevent for the correct movement |
| 18:59.56 | Canislupus | well it is quite obvious to me that someone knows how to make automovement work |
| 19:00.13 | Canislupus | the bots you see in wow every day prove that |
| 19:00.43 | krka | sure, i could do it myself with autotravel + AutoIT |
| 19:00.47 | krka | but i want to do it in linux |
| 19:01.13 | Canislupus | is there a wow client for linux? i had in my mind there was... |
| 19:01.36 | krka | i use cedega |
| 19:01.39 | krka | no wow client :( |
| 19:02.39 | Canislupus | i think we should all rise up and take the xp source code from microsoft by force |
| 19:03.15 | Canislupus | no turning back once it's in the public domain |
| 19:05.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia_ (n=xx@p54ADC304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:07.42 | kaiden | uhm... most of the xp source is public already |
| 19:07.59 | kaiden | did you not follow the anti-trust case and the ruling against them? |
| 19:09.45 | Canislupus | what? i missed something? |
| 19:11.15 | Canislupus | anti-trust case was years ago wasn't it? |
| 19:11.59 | Legorol | the EU one is recent |
| 19:12.06 | Legorol | i am assuming kaiden means that |
| 19:12.59 | Canislupus | ahh so it was released to the public by europe? I had heard that was only released for govt officials to review |
| 19:13.01 | kaiden | the windows source has been out there for a long time in various ways, but it's far too much code for anyone to do with it |
| 19:16.03 | Canislupus | well i assume that would not stop anyone... i mean linux is maintained by ppl who are capable of it |
| 19:19.22 | kaiden | linux was intended to be opensource from the beginning |
| 19:19.32 | kaiden | so many comments were made, and it was kept somewhat neat |
| 19:19.36 | Canislupus | well that would make a diff |
| 19:19.48 | kaiden | imagine going through 600 million lines of code and not knowing what links to what |
| 19:20.15 | Canislupus | its just a shame we cant take the most stable version of window ever and make it a base for future open-source type OS's |
| 19:20.18 | kaiden | and that's giving it a lowball number, i would imagine the windows entire source, dll's included is somewhere near 600 billion :P |
| 19:20.30 | kaiden | hello.... mac osx |
| 19:20.37 | wereHamster | Canislupus, what is IYHO the most stable version? |
| 19:20.49 | Canislupus | XP |
| 19:20.54 | kaiden | opensource kernel combined with the bsd kernel which is to date the most stable os on the planet |
| 19:21.02 | Canislupus | well, 2000 really, but it sucked |
| 19:21.19 | kaiden | and it far outweighs windows abilities in terms of speed, graphics quality, prettyness |
| 19:21.21 | Canislupus | MacOS is slow |
| 19:21.32 | kaiden | wtf are you smoking |
| 19:21.33 | yammy_atwow | anyone knows exactly the respaw time of a black lotus? |
| 19:21.42 | Canislupus | read the article in CPU mag Kaiden |
| 19:21.59 | kaiden | learn to test for yourself and not go by asshats that dont know wtf they are talking about |
| 19:22.16 | Canislupus | yeah general os tasks and navigation, OSX feels snappy and smooth |
| 19:22.20 | kaiden | in EVERY test ran on the newest line of iMacs it blows away standard pc's with it's speed |
| 19:22.23 | yammy_atwow | idea? |
| 19:22.52 | Canislupus | but it slows down games... all other things being equal, according to the ONE article i read (only one, keep in mind) |
| 19:22.55 | kaiden | it also is currently the only graphical os that natively supports dual core cpu's |
| 19:23.23 | Tain | Ehn you find just as many tests saying the opposite. |
| 19:23.27 | Canislupus | dont get me wrong, i wish the world would adopt it as THE OS |
| 19:23.31 | kaiden | well i'm on a dualcore iMac 2.1ghz with 2gb of ram, and i can run bootcamp for windows based games and i play wow in osx, and it is never slow at all |
| 19:23.57 | Canislupus | what kind of performance Kaiden? |
| 19:24.06 | Canislupus | framerate/settings? |
| 19:24.07 | kaiden | i can give you a million (... if i have a long time to go down the list heh) examples of why it's better |
| 19:24.14 | kaiden | i run at 80fps with all graphics at full |
| 19:24.20 | Canislupus | badd ass |
| 19:24.21 | kaiden | in wow in osx |
| 19:24.28 | kaiden | well 69-85 |
| 19:24.35 | Canislupus | Average? |
| 19:24.52 | kaiden | avg is 80, in lagged out if i run at about 50-55 fps |
| 19:24.57 | Canislupus | what video card? what res? |
| 19:25.12 | kaiden | ATI x1600 256mb GDDR3 ram, 1680x1050 res |
| 19:25.19 | Canislupus | i am not doubting, but rather i am quite impressed |
| 19:25.29 | Canislupus | sweet |
| 19:25.39 | kaiden | ok as far as why it's better #1, filesystem |
| 19:25.46 | Canislupus | bet that sucker was expensive tho |
| 19:25.51 | kaiden | the windows ntfs filesystem is so beyond outdated and microsoft is attempting to fix it but they can't |
| 19:26.01 | Canislupus | i humbly agree |
| 19:26.04 | kaiden | they at first were going to switch to a sql based filesystem til they realized how stupid that idea was |
| 19:26.10 | kaiden | as it crapped out and everything slowed way down |
| 19:26.11 | Canislupus | lol sql |
| 19:26.24 | Canislupus | smart, MS.... smart |
| 19:26.30 | kaiden | ext2/ext3 based filesystems are far superior in every respect and are alot more intelligent in the way they handle file storage |
| 19:26.49 | Canislupus | still agreeing... |
| 19:27.08 | kaiden | files are actually stored bit by bit with them instead of 1 bit here 1 bit there and wow how fast can i go to find all the bits so i can run the app like windows |
| 19:27.13 | Canislupus | now if we can just get OSX to run on homebuilt systems |
| 19:27.18 | kaiden | windows even in vista will not fully support dual core cpu's |
| 19:27.35 | kaiden | whereas at kernel level osx knows how to put parts of applications across the cpu's and span them |
| 19:27.40 | Canislupus | oh, i have no intention of moving to Vista, ever |
| 19:27.54 | kaiden | i am running wow in the background, itunes, safari, colloquy, adium, bluetooth link to my mobile phone |
| 19:28.09 | kaiden | quicksilver, pathfinder and a few other things and have no lag whatsoever |
| 19:28.10 | Canislupus | very nice |
| 19:28.21 | Tain | Yeesh. |
| 19:28.31 | Canislupus | you buy a mac branded system? |
| 19:28.47 | kaiden | through software the virtual desktoping in osx is insane, apps on background screens are literally gone from the computer and not rendering |
| 19:28.52 | kaiden | more or less put in standby mode |
| 19:29.00 | Tain | First of all the new WinFS was the best idea MS had in years, it's a shame they abandonded it. |
| 19:29.21 | kaiden | do you understand why they abandoned winfs tain? |
| 19:29.23 | Canislupus | standard MS fare, though |
| 19:29.37 | Tain | Yes, it was too complicated to bring to market quickly. |
| 19:29.39 | kaiden | i wont say ms has bad ideas.. .. just bad execution |
| 19:29.48 | kaiden | no it didn't work in the attempts that they made |
| 19:29.53 | Tain | Some of the technology is still going to be used. |
| 19:30.07 | Canislupus | MS does not want to fix all the problems in one OS, because no one will upgrade past that version.... EVER |
| 19:30.13 | kaiden | *points at hostname* i am a regular microsoftie, i work next door to them and chat with them all the time |
| 19:30.29 | Tain | Not true Canislupus. |
| 19:30.46 | Tain | People upgrade year after year regardless. |
| 19:30.49 | kaiden | yes WinFS will be good when they release it, however, they bunged it up with the whole sql idea |
| 19:31.01 | Canislupus | yeah well wait till they release VISTA they have a surprise coming |
| 19:31.23 | Canislupus | ppl are going to delay upgrading like never before |
| 19:31.26 | kaiden | they have no surprises, they are grasping at marketshares trying to win back the publics eye |
| 19:31.38 | kaiden | as the instant apple started dropping it's prices people shifted their pace |
| 19:31.48 | Tain | Ok.. you're just talking sheer nonsense now. |
| 19:31.50 | kaiden | not 100%... but it certainly has quite a few many more eyeing them up |
| 19:32.15 | kaiden | Tain, considering i work in this world, and this is what i do, whereas you do not .. honestly who do you think here is talking nonsense |
| 19:32.33 | Tain | Grasping at marketshare? |
| 19:32.45 | kaiden | why do you think the sidebar was added to xp? |
| 19:32.48 | kaiden | erm vista |
| 19:32.50 | Tain | Any company in the world would like to have that problem of grasping at that tiny marketshare. |
| 19:33.01 | Tain | Oh and since you're so kind as to bring it up, would you mind telling me what I do for a living? |
| 19:33.03 | kaiden | because everyone was oogling over the dock / dashboard of osx |
| 19:33.27 | kaiden | why did they make the os look so much like osx... |
| 19:33.29 | kaiden | or attempt to |
| 19:33.54 | kaiden | hrm well since i'm an idiot and dont know what i'm talking about, it's obviously not because osx was doing well and people were talking about it more |
| 19:33.56 | Canislupus | well, MS cannot add WIDGETS that we can DL right now off of Yahoo! and expect that to prompt us to upgrade |
| 19:34.14 | Canislupus | they need to re-brand it MS XP Plus! v2 |
| 19:34.26 | yammy_atwow | : p |
| 19:34.28 | Tain | People talking about OSX does not even remotely translate to Microsoft, "grasping at marketshare." |
| 19:34.59 | Tain | That's a simply absurd statement.' |
| 19:35.18 | Canislupus | Vista is the biggest crock of shit upgrade MS has ever released |
| 19:35.25 | kaiden | lol.. tain whatever man you can try to bust my chops all you want to try to look like you know what's going on but that's your deal |
| 19:35.51 | Tain | You still haven't told me what I do for a living, since you're so knowledgeable. |
| 19:36.26 | Canislupus | well before anyone judges me.. I am in construction so there! |
| 19:36.28 | Tain | I know one thing, if I could start a company and be grasping at the marketshare Microsoft has I'd take it. As would.. oh.. anyone else. |
| 19:36.34 | Canislupus | 8) |
| 19:36.51 | kaiden | Tain, please do attempt to read instead of pull stuff out of context and give it completely new meanings |
| 19:36.56 | Tain | Take OSX on its merits and enjoy that. |
| 19:37.06 | Tain | <kaiden> Tain, considering i work in this world, and this is what i do, whereas |
| 19:37.06 | Tain | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:37.17 | Thrae | Any UI gurus around? |
| 19:37.22 | Canislupus | ROFL |
| 19:37.24 | kaiden | Microsoft see's the threat apple poses, and that is why they are making so many radical changes because they see the impending doom if they dont clean up their act |
| 19:38.00 | Tain | Apple isn't a threat. The EU fining them millions of dollars a day is a threat. |
| 19:38.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.8.95) |
| 19:38.09 | Canislupus | well in Kaidens defense.... MS is VERY paraniod of competition, no matter WHAT market share they have |
| 19:38.26 | Canislupus | they always have been |
| 19:38.28 | kaiden | of course they are, who isn't when they are the richest of the rich |
| 19:38.37 | kaiden | you get greedy when you get that big and dont want any of it to go away |
| 19:38.53 | Canislupus | what DO you do kaiden? |
| 19:38.55 | kaiden | however, without them.. we wouldn't be where we are now |
| 19:39.00 | Tain | They didn't get like that, they are where they are now because they acted like that from the beginning. |
| 19:39.25 | kaiden | i am a network engineer at a registrar |
| 19:39.39 | Canislupus | oh, i personally think MS held us back, with the exception of getting everyone using one OS |
| 19:39.53 | Canislupus | domain registrar? |
| 19:39.56 | kaiden | yup |
| 19:40.02 | Canislupus | neat |
| 19:40.21 | Canislupus | again, i feel like a dwarf amongst giants here... |
| 19:40.25 | kaiden | i always find it funny when people call microsoft innovative when they have never made a product of their own |
| 19:40.42 | kaiden | windows 95 was not their idea.. it went by Calysto i believe was the name as a win 3.11 app |
| 19:40.53 | kaiden | dos, was bought and marketed as a microsoft product |
| 19:40.59 | Canislupus | yup |
| 19:41.05 | Tain | There are not many truly innovative ideas. The innovation comes in bringing them to the masses. |
| 19:41.16 | Canislupus | and there were way better windowing OS's at the time |
| 19:41.41 | Canislupus | MS is a marketing Juggernaut, that is their niche |
| 19:41.43 | kaiden | microsoft has the ability to see what's going to go far (normally) and jump on the bandwagon early |
| 19:42.00 | Canislupus | sometimes too early |
| 19:42.12 | Canislupus | (integration of the NET with the OS) |
| 19:42.23 | kaiden | i think that was a good idea personally |
| 19:42.29 | kaiden | it helped push us farther faster |
| 19:42.31 | Tain | MS was way behind on getting involved with the Internet. |
| 19:43.09 | Canislupus | way too far ahead on OS integration tho, that is what brought them all the flack about integrating IE in to the OS (IMHO, of course) |
| 19:43.14 | kaiden | however, at the same time, when i plug in a peripheral into my mac i dont have to go searching the globe for a driver... it just works.. i get close to my mac with my mobile phone and it syncs up with it and lets me grab my address book / calendar |
| 19:43.25 | kaiden | built in wifi is also a major plus |
| 19:43.48 | Canislupus | that is the way everything SHOULD work now |
| 19:43.56 | Tain | That's a function of the hardware you buy, not the OS. |
| 19:44.10 | Tain | You can buy hardware that does the same with other operating systems as well. |
| 19:44.14 | kaiden | yes but the problem with the european jerks is they are going off on ms for integrating internet explorer, when you dont have to browse with ie... i use firefox on my pc's just fine with no fuss |
| 19:44.22 | Canislupus | and there are powerful forces holding back inter-device communication right now |
| 19:44.34 | Tain | You're simply more limited in your choices when it comes to OSX, so your fewer choices will have more support. |
| 19:44.55 | Canislupus | wireless mesh networks should be omni-present right now, and we are not really even close yet |
| 19:45.06 | kaiden | they are here in seattle thankfully |
| 19:45.22 | Canislupus | yeah that is about the ONLY reason i would live in Seattle |
| 19:45.37 | Canislupus | but its almost enough to get me to |
| 19:46.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 19:46.51 | Canislupus | personally i live in the ozarks (rural missouri) and the concept of broadband everywhere here is about 30 years off |
| 19:48.03 | Canislupus | unless cingular or verizon get off their butt and bring broadband cellular to the masses at an affordable rate |
| 19:48.15 | Canislupus | with no lag |
| 19:55.55 | Canislupus | we will truly make progress once the world is on one open source OS, and we all have high bandwidth wireless available everywhere, and GPS is integrated into everything (with privacy concerns addressed as well) |
| 19:58.42 | Canislupus | so much for my litttle fantasy world tho |
| 19:59.52 | kaiden | everywhere i go from north seattle / everett down to southern tacoma i can't really hit a spot without a wifi i can bind to :) |
| 19:59.58 | kaiden | makes things nice when you are on the go |
| 20:01.01 | End | lovely! |
| 20:01.18 | End | I can only use SetCursor() on custom textures if hardware cursor is disabled |
| 20:01.38 | Canislupus | if i had that option, i would dump my cellular carrier |
| 20:01.55 | Canislupus | and go with a wireless voip phone |
| 20:01.55 | kaiden | oooh awesome... sacha is updating call to arms |
| 20:02.30 | Canislupus | on what forums? |
| 20:02.40 | Thrae | Is CTA getting updated to use the global LFG channel with a sane traffic setting and human-readable broadcasts? |
| 20:03.29 | Wobin | argh |
| 20:03.35 | Canislupus | lozereth ever come here? |
| 20:03.38 | Wobin | hm |
| 20:03.47 | Cairenn | Canislupus: once in a very great while |
| 20:04.09 | Cairenn | his ISP is so incredibly sad, it makes things like IRC very very difficult for him |
| 20:04.14 | Canislupus | i am in awe of the apps he has written |
| 20:04.54 | Canislupus | yeah there was a time it took 5 or 6 tries to get a page to load on his site |
| 20:05.22 | Canislupus | he must live somewhere like i do, where options are very limited |
| 20:05.23 | Thrae | Who are we talking about Telo? Discord? |
| 20:05.30 | Cairenn | Lozerath |
| 20:05.32 | Canislupus | Discord |
| 20:05.38 | Cairenn | LozAreth, that is |
| 20:05.47 | Cairenn | I always switch the a and e |
| 20:06.02 | Canislupus | yeah well i mutilated it |
| 20:06.52 | Thrae | Well he does seem to keep to his own forum pretty well. |
| 20:07.43 | Canislupus | that IS a wig on his head, isnt it? |
| 20:08.17 | Canislupus | cause the DO just looks out of place on him |
| 20:10.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:11.47 | Cairenn | le sigh ... severe TS warnings, yet again ... if I poof, that's why |
| 20:19.34 | Cairenn | Thrae: CTA *just* got updated: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=26bfe9f05bc1faf8d876ab02144aae59&id=4020 |
| 20:20.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:21.47 | Canislupus | can we dump the LFG channel then? |
| 20:22.33 | Thrae | Nope, CTA hasn't been updated to use the global LFG channel yet =( |
| 20:23.04 | Thrae | Canislupus: Ideally you just want to be able to silence the channel on your ChatFrames and let CTA scan them, but CTA still requires it's own CTAChannel |
| 20:23.16 | Canislupus | ahh |
| 20:23.37 | Thrae | CTA has been working fine since R9, it just needs to be updated to use ONLY the global LFG channel |
| 20:23.57 | Canislupus | well i can still disable that channel, and use this assuming it has widespread adoption |
| 20:24.04 | Mikk1 | It doesn't |
| 20:24.17 | Mikk1 | Which is why it be so kickass if it just worked with the LFG channel as-is |
| 20:24.25 | Thrae | CTA never will get widespread adoption with the new global LFG channel |
| 20:24.39 | Mikk1 | Advertise it as a spam blocker |
| 20:24.43 | Canislupus | i usu put LFG, TRADE and Defense channels on a hidden window anyway |
| 20:24.44 | Mikk1 | Spam/filter |
| 20:25.15 | Mikk1 | Right now they're advertising it as a way of finding groups globally |
| 20:25.17 | Thrae | Well, GEM + MyRoleplay take up 4 channels already, I'm hurting for channels |
| 20:25.20 | Mikk1 | Advertise it as a spam filter -> problem solved |
| 20:25.27 | snurre | gem is eww |
| 20:25.47 | Thrae | My guild requires me to use it =/ |
| 20:26.06 | Canislupus | ? |
| 20:26.12 | Thrae | Guild Event Manager |
| 20:26.17 | Mikk1 | Bit silly. Should just dump it in /g and trust the mod to filter out the crap =) |
| 20:26.25 | Mikk1 | Good incentive to make people get it =P |
| 20:27.04 | Thrae | Mikk1: That would make sense if EVERYONE used it...GEM also spams like crazy, too |
| 20:27.20 | End | hmm |
| 20:27.26 | Mikk1 | Well.. if you're required to use it anyway... ? |
| 20:27.31 | End | WoW in opengl mode starts up faster for me |
| 20:27.37 | Wobin | yeah, GEM is pretty ew |
| 20:27.49 | End | directx mode takes about 20-30 seconds for the window to show up usually |
| 20:27.58 | Thrae | We're only required to use it to keep up-to-date on raids |
| 20:28.07 | Thrae | Wobin: Do you have a good alternative to GEM? |
| 20:28.15 | Mikk1 | GuildCalendar |
| 20:28.17 | Wobin | Forum signups, I'm afraid =) |
| 20:28.25 | Wobin | Take it completely off WoW =P |
| 20:29.01 | Tain | I'm just starting to think about putting together a guild solution of things to run in and out side of game. |
| 20:29.15 | Tain | There's a few things like that already out there. |
| 20:29.35 | Tain | But well, that's not as much fun as brewing my own. |
| 20:30.32 | Canislupus | ROFL |
| 20:30.47 | Wobin | rofl? |
| 20:30.50 | Thrae | Mikk1: Think you meant GroupCalendar, and it looks nice |
| 20:31.04 | Mikk1 | yea i did |
| 20:31.09 | Canislupus | this guy on CTA forum thread "I deleted this mod and i still have the channel i was like 'WTF' so i went into my WTF folder " |
| 20:31.37 | Canislupus | people are so funny |
| 20:34.06 | Canislupus | yeah that mod will truly become useful when it integrates into the LFG channel |
| 20:39.41 | End | goddamn forum system |
| 20:39.47 | End | Already posted my ass |
| 20:41.16 | Cairenn | why would you want to post your ass? |
| 20:41.28 | Canislupus | i think he meant IN |
| 20:41.47 | Cairenn | he's posting *in* his ass? o.O |
| 20:41.57 | Canislupus | a post In? |
| 20:41.59 | Cairenn | I just don't want to know |
| 20:42.01 | Canislupus | lol |
| 20:43.58 | Canislupus | i'll save the intelligent banter for the LFG channel... lol |
| 20:44.02 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 20:45.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower-PC (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 20:45.13 | Cairenn | *snicker* |
| 20:48.22 | End | oh |
| 20:48.30 | End | my ass is great for posting |
| 20:48.40 | End | incidently, I just changed the wording a bit |
| 20:49.51 | Canislupus | brknsoul hand out here? |
| 20:50.00 | Canislupus | *hang out... sorry |
| 20:53.04 | krka | omg brazil out |
| 20:54.24 | Cairenn | wow |
| 20:54.32 | Cairenn | they're usually pretty damn good |
| 20:55.25 | gnorlish | they didn't have a shot on goal until after the 90th minute |
| 20:55.26 | krka | lost to france of all countries |
| 20:55.44 | krka | france had some good defence though |
| 20:55.51 | krka | or brazil sucked at offence :P |
| 20:57.33 | zenzelezz | it was a good match; France was just a bit better |
| 20:57.34 | krka | yeah |
| 20:57.41 | krka | can't blame this one on bad rulings |
| 21:11.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Esamynn (n=jbcc@d207-216-176-153.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:11.33 | Esamynn | Afternoon all |
| 21:11.45 | Canislupus | howdy Esa |
| 21:11.54 | Thrae | What are GetCursorPosition()'s values relative to? |
| 21:12.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:12.47 | Esamynn | the screen I think |
| 21:13.23 | Thrae | So how can I use that with Frame:SetPoint() ? |
| 21:13.50 | Esamynn | well, you can now pass in nil for the relative frame to anchor directly to the screen |
| 21:13.54 | Canislupus | my god i have to stop installing new mods |
| 21:14.06 | Esamynn | lol |
| 21:14.09 | Cairenn | heh |
| 21:14.10 | Canislupus | i have 228 folders in my interface |
| 21:14.15 | Esamynn | haha |
| 21:14.24 | Canislupus | and i keep finding new ones i like |
| 21:15.13 | Kaso | OMG |
| 21:15.16 | Kaso | mt sorry |
| 21:17.38 | Canislupus | recalling a previous conversation on here... it wouldnt take much to get me to switch to OSX |
| 21:18.14 | Canislupus | i really am annoyed that each explorer window has all menu and interface elements in it |
| 21:18.59 | Canislupus | tile about 4 of them and you have WASTED 25% of your screen real-estate to repetetive CRAP |
| 21:19.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 21:20.09 | Mikk1 | Now turn on the must-have web pane to the left =) |
| 21:20.16 | Mikk1 | 25% -> 90% |
| 21:20.19 | Canislupus | lol exactly |
| 21:20.35 | Canislupus | so poorly thought out |
| 21:20.45 | Canislupus | just a series of band-aids |
| 21:21.35 | Canislupus | i long for the multi-window file manager of windows 3.1 some days |
| 21:21.48 | Thrae | Esamynn: Hmm, GameTooltip:SetPoint("TOPLEFT", UIParent, GetCursorPosition() ), doesn't seem to give me sane positioning. |
| 21:22.12 | krka | yeah, the cursor position is f* up, imo |
| 21:22.19 | krka | it is relative BOTTOMLEFTw |
| 21:22.27 | Thrae | Ahhh...odd |
| 21:22.30 | krka | with y-value being negative |
| 21:22.36 | krka | or something like that |
| 21:22.39 | krka | can't really remember |
| 21:23.05 | krka | no wait..... bottom left is 0, 0, and top left is 0, 800 maybe? |
| 21:23.19 | krka | experimentation should give you the answer :P |
| 21:24.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 21:24.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge hyperChi1munk (n=staharaj@d14-69-214-77.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 21:24.27 | Thrae | Yeah, BOTTOMLEFT is 0,0 it seems. |
| 21:24.44 | Thrae | Goodbye buggy ANCHOR_CURSOR |
| 21:24.48 | AnduinLothar | that is correct. it uses 1st quad geometry |
| 21:25.28 | krka | but not for all places, does it? |
| 21:25.56 | AnduinLothar | GetCursorPosition does |
| 21:26.27 | krka | hmm... no wait |
| 21:26.29 | AnduinLothar | otherwise it depends on what you used for anchor relatives |
| 21:26.56 | krka | yeah |
| 21:27.07 | AnduinLothar | and don't forget to apply scale |
| 21:28.13 | AnduinLothar | if you feel like makign a tooltip anchor that doesn't go offscreen and works correctly I'll add it to Gymnast |
| 21:28.38 | Thrae | I need to apply scale to GetCursorPosition()? |
| 21:28.51 | AnduinLothar | depends on what you're using setpoint on |
| 21:29.04 | Thrae | This is the GameTooltip, yes. |
| 21:29.13 | AnduinLothar | but relative to what frame |
| 21:29.24 | Thrae | WorldFrame |
| 21:29.32 | Thrae | More specifically, UIParent |
| 21:29.47 | AnduinLothar | those are two different things that dont necissarily overlap |
| 21:30.05 | Thrae | OK, then UIParent. |
| 21:30.34 | AnduinLothar | then yes, you should apply scale and offset the UIParent position |
| 21:35.31 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: We'll see about the func, that's certainly my goal right now |
| 21:36.32 | AnduinLothar | what you might be bestoff doing is hooking the setpoint and redirecting any that use ANCHOR_MOUSE |
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| 21:39.46 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Do you mean ANCHOR_CURSOR, or is there also ANCHOR_MOUSE? |
| 21:39.54 | AnduinLothar | yes i do |
| 21:40.44 | Thrae | Well this is for TinyTip, a tooltip mod, so all I am hooking is SetDefaultAnchor, which works on all the cases I've tried. |
| 21:40.50 | gnorlish | thrae! |
| 21:40.55 | gnorlish | nil errors abound! |
| 21:41.30 | AnduinLothar | What makes TinyTIp special |
| 21:41.30 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 21:41.53 | gnorlish | it's tiny |
| 21:42.07 | AnduinLothar | setscale(.01) |
| 21:42.10 | Thrae | gnorlish: Do you have the SVN I updated about ~30 minutes ago? |
| 21:42.15 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Hahaha |
| 21:42.21 | gnorlish | no! do i get more nil errors?? |
| 21:42.23 | gnorlish | i love em |
| 21:42.29 | gnorlish | bugsack just catches em now |
| 21:42.34 | gnorlish | and wants more |
| 21:42.42 | Thrae | gnorlish: svn.wowace.com/root/trunk/TinyTip should fix your nil errors ;) |
| 21:43.26 | Canislupus | kaiden did you send me a file? |
| 21:43.32 | kaiden | yes |
| 21:43.43 | Canislupus | didnt go through |
| 21:43.54 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: TinyTip is an attempt at something a little less then TipBuddy. |
| 21:44.20 | kaiden | lets try again, i'm behind a firewall here so it might not go out |
| 21:44.30 | kaiden | here i'll just throw it on my webspace :) |
| 21:44.34 | Canislupus | kk |
| 21:44.40 | AnduinLothar | I assume it does positioning as well as content |
| 21:45.05 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Indeed, so does TipBuddy. And most modules can be deleted if unused. |
| 21:45.19 | Thrae | I originally made it for myself, but then the Ace people bugged me for it (it doesn't use Ace). |
| 21:45.26 | AnduinLothar | Well Gymnast's sole purpose is positioning |
| 21:45.31 | gnorlish | where are you hiding comments for what variables are what |
| 21:45.52 | Thrae | gnorlish: SVN version has a Saved Variable database, do /tinytip or /ttip in-game |
| 21:47.29 | gnorlish | oh man |
| 21:47.37 | gnorlish | so much more color than previous commit |
| 21:49.13 | Thrae | "So much more color"? |
| 21:49.38 | gnorlish | the nil errors were making everything that yellow standard color |
| 21:50.34 | Thrae | gnorlish: Ahhh, heh |
| 21:52.27 | Canislupus | you running OSX tiger kaiden? |
| 21:52.34 | kaiden | yeah |
| 21:53.30 | Canislupus | dont use the bar at the bottom then? |
| 21:54.23 | Canislupus | OSX makes much more efficient use of screen real-estate |
| 21:54.38 | gnorlish | thrae |
| 21:54.57 | gnorlish | you could maybe cut the options down into a few categories |
| 21:55.01 | gnorlish | there are so many |
| 21:56.14 | gnorlish | although i guess you just have to set it once |
| 21:57.38 | kaiden | Canislupus: , i do, howeve ri have it auto hiding itself |
| 21:57.47 | Thrae | gnorlish: Yeah, the idea is that you go through those evil slash commands maybe once or twice |
| 21:57.56 | Thrae | Until I get a GUI settings window for it |
| 21:58.29 | gnorlish | you have half toggling hiding and half toggling showing |
| 21:58.52 | gnorlish | i shudder to think of how you decided to do each function |
| 21:59.11 | Thrae | Huh? |
| 22:00.07 | gnorlish | the options, making all a uniform "on = show, off = hide" would be easier on the brain pre-gui |
| 22:00.58 | Thrae | It would make it easier on the brain, but then I'd be storing useless variables...everything with an option to "hide" is something I assume most people don't want hidden |
| 22:02.03 | Thrae | I'll seperate it out into "hide", "show", and "misc" if I have time. |
| 22:02.33 | gnorlish | did you put in slash commands so people with no idea how to open and edit lua have something to fool around with while you work on the next big update? |
| 22:02.55 | AnduinLothar | khaos is your friend |
| 22:03.30 | zenzelezz | wtf |
| 22:03.31 | Thrae | gnorlish: People who have no idea how to edit the SavedVariables database directly, yes. I'll keep the slash commands even when the GUI is added. |
| 22:03.33 | zenzelezz | Silvermoon down again |
| 22:03.37 | zenzelezz | second time today |
| 22:04.22 | Thrae | I hope no one is using the variable name "UBERHYPERGLOBALMAX" |
| 22:04.26 | gnorlish | did any of you see the barrage of "fix skullcrusher" thread on general, tech support, and dungeon forums |
| 22:04.59 | gnorlish | scUS got a blue to respond early this week, and he came and raided with one of our guilds |
| 22:05.03 | gnorlish | and then disappeared |
| 22:06.09 | gnorlish | probably because he found out the oldest servers really are pieces of shit and he was in way over his head |
| 22:17.34 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 22:18.26 | zenzelezz | Anarchy Online thing... "meep" was everyday-language for a line of teleportation spells |
| 22:18.50 | zenzelezz | EVT being the quickest team-version fixers had |
| 22:19.07 | Mikk1 | whee thanks cair =) |
| 22:19.58 | zenzelezz | there we go again o_O Server's really not feeling well today |
| 22:31.15 | Canislupus | seriously, has OSX been cracked for installation on any x86 processor? |
| 22:31.38 | Canislupus | cause i think i will install it if it has |
| 22:31.43 | AnduinLothar | not afaik |
| 22:32.11 | Canislupus | ./disappointed |
| 22:35.36 | Canislupus | http://www.uneasysilence.com/os-x-proven-hacked-and-running-on-an-ordinary-pc/ |
| 22:35.41 | Canislupus | interesting |
| 22:37.30 | AnduinLothar | there you go |
| 22:38.29 | AnduinLothar | looks fairly painless if the software is up to date |
| 22:38.51 | Canislupus | and it looks like he got AMD64 to work too |
| 22:39.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:42.45 | Canislupus | quote"I ran it fine with a amd 64 4000+ sandy, epox agp mobo w/6800GT, was stuck at 1024×768 on a 19? widescreen, bugs the hell outa me" |
| 22:59.37 | Canislupus | so kaiden you run wow in OSX? |
| 22:59.45 | kaiden | yes |
| 23:00.11 | Canislupus | dual 2.1 ghz processors if i recall? |
| 23:00.27 | Canislupus | video card was? |
| 23:00.46 | kaiden | ati x1600 256mb gddr3 |
| 23:11.06 | Canislupus | what are some good chat window mods (multiple windows, persistant tabs/window titles, etc) |
| 23:15.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:16.04 | Legorol | I'm browsing the official forums, and come across random thread of the day that complains about Russian language usage in General and LFG channels. |
| 23:16.14 | Legorol | The thread has the usual low level of quality, but I find this gem: |
| 23:16.18 | Legorol | "In mother russia, group looks for YOU!" |
| 23:20.09 | Canislupus | I still like the guy that is talking about a mod not working and he says "So i am thinking WTF?.... so i look in the WTF folder..." |
| 23:22.13 | Canislupus | and now i wonder if i am the only one humored by that |
| 23:23.14 | AnduinLothar | old joke |
| 23:23.56 | Canislupus | ahh, well i had thought it, but i hadn't heard anyone else say it before |
| 23:26.20 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 23:32.35 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Canislupus (n=Canislup@68-185-211-193.dhcp.clma.mo.charter.com) |
| 23:34.27 | Legorol | i haven't heard it before, funny |
| 23:34.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 23:48.06 | Wobin | This LiveTrumps is worryingly addictive: http://www.remotegoat.co.uk/livetrumps.php?a=eb08d&u=wobin&r=97 =P |
| 23:58.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower-PC (n=chatzill@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |