irclog2html for #wowi-lounge on 20060613

`00:01.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And now, I do believe that MageBlaster is complete.`
`00:01.54`	`zenzio`	`what's that?`
`00:02.09`	`ScytheBlade1`	`The title is slightly misleading`
`00:02.30`	`ScytheBlade1`	`But end result, it'll pop whatever cooldowns the mage has, trinkets/offhand included`
`00:02.41`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Then fires off either pyroblast/fireball or frostbolt depending`
`00:02.52`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Or flamestrike//blizzard if you hit the AoE button`
`00:03.17`	`zenzio`	`pop, as in spend?`
`00:03.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`(Also has an option to include counterspell in that)`
`00:03.20`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Yeah`
`00:10.30`	`Kirkburn`	`wtf, someone else has got my Myana name :(`
`00:10.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Bet they copied me :( http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread-search.aspx?ForumName=wow-general&Author=Myana&Cluster=Wow`
`00:11.39`	`Kirkburn`	`(er, Myana is my 'secondary character', my flame haired Pally)`
`00:47.03`	`Kirkburn`	`What offline API emulators are there?`
`00:47.17`	`Iriel`	`none`
`00:47.34`	`Iriel`	`other than 'lua with some homegrown scripts for things like DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage'`
`00:47.53`	`Iriel`	`it gets discussed periodically, I dont think anyone's found the time or energy to do it tho`
`00:48.16`	`Tain`	`I've heard a couple of people claim that they have their own but haven't shared with anyone else because they have too much work to do on them.`
`00:48.38`	`Kirkburn`	`I ask because the guy editing the wiki, Mikk, just mentioned he made one`
`00:48.40`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Mikk`
`00:48.42`	`Iriel`	`I'm sure folks have minor stubs, but I doubt anyone has a fully fleged one`
`00:48.52`	`Tain`	`I of course put those claims in the same category as Duke Nukem Forever.`
`00:49.01`	`End`	`I usually feel like doing it when I'm at work, when I can't check for consistancy anyways`
`00:49.10`	`dukeku`	`i wonder if anyone actually preordered DNF`
`00:49.11`	`Iriel`	`I have totally useless stubs for CreateFrame/FontString/Texture, for example`
`00:49.50`	`Tain`	`Oh I know people did, I think I remember one store (EB or something) making an announcement about returning preorder money, or letting people transfer it to another game, or something to that effect.`
`00:50.22`	`_B`	`Has that been canned yet`
`00:50.27`	`Iriel`	`Declaring the right functions and making one or two of them DO something is fairly easy.`
`00:50.32`	`Kirkburn`	`DNF? Nooo`
`00:50.36`	`_B`	`lol.`
`00:50.48`	`Iriel`	`Making a simulation of the client behind the API's and coherent and dynamic results, on the other hand, not easy`
`00:50.58`	`Tain`	`No actually the publisher just said they'd pay a $500k bonus if they get DNF out before Christmas this year.`
`00:51.04`	`Kirkburn`	`what Tain said`
`00:51.33`	`Iriel`	`Tem was going to simulate the frame API's before 1.10 came out, but 1.10 got done before he did, so that project died`
`00:51.33`	`Kirkburn`	`Hopefully there being stuff on the wiki might help :)`
`00:51.56`	`Iriel`	`Generally you simulate the bits you need for offline testing`
`00:52.07`	`Iriel`	`For example, Cide would need an entirely different portion of the UI than I would`
`00:52.19`	`Kirkburn`	`True`
`00:52.29`	`Iriel`	`And many UI authors really need a simulated game world too`
`00:52.39`	`Iriel`	`and that, even on its own, is no easy undertaking`
`00:58.19`	`Thrae`	`Iriel: Is there any problem with doing fs = ParentFrame:CreateFontString() vs f = CreateFrame("Frame", nil, ParentFrame); fs = f:CreateFontString();`
`00:58.58`	`Thrae`	`Since FontString inherits from Region, it already has pretty much all the functions you need to position it, etc.`
`00:59.19`	`Thrae`	`I should be more specific -- is there any problem if your only goal is to get text on the screen?`
`01:00.54`	`Iriel`	`Thrae : No`
`01:01.22`	`Iriel`	`Thrae : The downside of not having an intermediate frame is you lose control over frame level`
`01:01.51`	`Thrae`	`True, but for my application, everything has the same frame level.`
`01:03.30`	`Thrae`	`I'm still wrestling with text wrapping and FontStrings. If I put it in a Frame and set the width on the Frame, the text will be truncated. If I set it on the FontString, the text will wrap but also go over the boundry of the frame.`
`01:03.50`	`Thrae`	`I have some ideas, but alas, the PTR is down.`
`01:04.16`	`Thrae`	`Ideas meaning "more trial-and-error"`
`01:04.40`	`Iriel`	`I finally got the first time in about 3 weeks to get on and do some addon updating for 1.11 and the test realms are offline`
`01:05.21`	`Thrae`	`Yeah it bites. I feel especially lucid today and this happens.`
`01:19.09`	`SinePi`	`ptr?`
`01:19.22`	`SinePi`	`(I know, lamest question ever)`
`01:19.32`	`End`	`public test realm`
`01:19.56`	`SinePi`	`oh, as simple as that.`
`01:20.18`	`Cairenn`	`not even close to being the lamest question ever`
`01:29.36`	`ckknight`	`Iriel, I feel I've butchered up your stub to such an extreme that they hardly resemble at all anymore`
`01:31.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Righgty ho! It's off to sleep I go!`
`01:31.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Then it's off to school to lern two spel!`
`01:32.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Followed by Double Attempt-At-Humour class`
`01:32.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Oooh, that's a lovely hole, I'll get my spade`
`01:35.42`	`Kirkburn`	`sigh`
`01:41.02`	`Iriel`	`ckknight : heh`
`01:41.17`	`ckknight`	`I have all sorts of crazy stuff in it now`
`01:41.40`	`ckknight`	`it does deep replaces with backreference checking and external checking`
`01:41.46`	`ckknight`	`and such`
`01:43.58`	`ckknight`	`the algorithms I came up with make my brain hurt`
`01:44.30`	`Iriel`	`So you strayed from your 'nothing left to take away' plan`
`01:46.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`01:47.05`	`ckknight_`	`now you can make a class with a certain superclass, register it as a library, then make another one with a different superclass, register it as a new version, and it'll all work and all local references hold up.`
`01:47.22`	`ckknight_`	`and local references to subtables also hold up properly`
`01:47.34`	`ckknight_`	`so, local Class = AceOO.Class`
`01:47.39`	`ckknight_`	`--load a new AceOO`
`01:47.45`	`ckknight_`	`assert(Class == AceOO.Class)`
`01:53.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Esamynn (n=jbcc@d207-216-176-153.bchsia.telus.net)`
`01:54.56`	`Esamynn`	`Evening all`
`02:05.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`so um... apparently DEBUG=false doesn't eval false... what's the bash boolean false?`
`02:06.43`	`ckknight`	`false.`
`02:06.49`	`ckknight`	`oh`
`02:06.51`	`ckknight`	`bash`
`02:06.52`	`ckknight`	`um`
`02:06.53`	`ckknight`	`0`
`02:07.01`	`ckknight`	`I think`
`02:07.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`false in sh?`
`02:07.08`	`ckknight`	`or maybe ""`
`02:07.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`no 0`
`02:07.33`	`AnduinLothar`	`not*`
`02:07.33`	`ckknight`	`or maybe 0 is true and 1is false`
`02:07.35`	`ckknight`	`check 1`
`02:07.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`nope`
`02:08.02`	`ckknight`	`odd`
`02:08.13`	`ckknight`	`if false; then echo $stuff; fi`
`02:08.25`	`ckknight`	`compared to if true; then echo $stuff; fi`
`02:08.30`	`ckknight`	`that works`
`02:08.32`	`End`	`0 is true`
`02:08.54`	`End`	`that's because true returns 0`
`02:09.11`	`End`	`returns as in exits with a value of 0`
`02:09.13`	`ckknight`	`yep.`
`02:09.23`	`ckknight`	`and false exits with 1`
`02:09.28`	`End`	`yup`
`02:10.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`DEBUG=1`
`02:10.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`if [ $DEBUG ]; then`
`02:10.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`should i nix the brackets?`
`02:10.37`	`End`	`well, that's test`
`02:10.42`	`End`	`see man test`
`02:11.24`	`Iriel`	`You dont need the brackets`
`02:11.26`	`AnduinLothar`	`yup, nixing the backets works`
`02:11.37`	`End`	`brackets gives a different meaning`
`02:12.33`	`Iriel`	`Actually, sorty, you dont want to nix them exactly`
`02:13.21`	`Iriel`	`I'd go with if [[ "$DEBUG" = "YES" ]]; then stuff ; fi`
`02:13.37`	`Iriel`	`if X ; then runs`
`02:13.45`	`Iriel`	`runs X as a command, and bases its result on the return value`
`02:14.02`	`AnduinLothar`	`nah, DEBUG=false if $DEBUG; then`
`02:14.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`works fine with true or false`
`02:14.25`	`Iriel`	`yeah, because you're running the true/false commands`
`02:14.31`	`Iriel`	`though I suspect they're builtin's in bash`
`02:14.32`	`AnduinLothar`	`is that bad?`
`02:15.06`	`Iriel`	`It's a very unix thing to do and /bin/true and /bin/false aren't exactly slow, I wouldn't worry about it much`
`02:17.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`k`
`02:18.28`	`Iriel`	`But you do need to be warned that if someone does DEBUG='rm -rf /' you're in trouble`
`02:18.45`	`Esamynn`	`so, no patch tomorrow, anyone surprised? ;)`
`02:18.46`	`End`	`haha`
`02:18.47`	`Iriel`	`Which is why if [[ "$DEBUG" = "YES" ]]; then stuff ; fi is safer`
`02:18.49`	`End`	`yeah, that'd be bad`
`02:19.06`	`End`	`and you sure it is double brackets, Iriel?`
`02:19.15`	`Iriel`	`In bash it is`
`02:19.20`	`Iriel`	`that's the builtin`
`02:19.23`	`End`	`oh`
`02:19.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`safer as in withint he language and not accessing apps that may or may not be modified`
`02:19.25`	`Iriel`	`faster than [`
`02:19.33`	`End`	`I don't use bash :P`
`02:19.35`	`End`	`for scripting`
`02:19.43`	`Iriel`	`Esamynn : Relieved, does that make me a bad person?`
`02:20.03`	`AnduinLothar`	`makes my life easier`
`02:20.12`	`AnduinLothar`	`another weekend to get site changes done`
`02:20.13`	`End`	`I come from freebsd land where sh is pretty much limited to what posix specifies`
`02:20.16`	`Esamynn`	`Iriel: no, I've been banking on it ;)`
`02:20.27`	`Iriel`	`Anyone here tried "Dark and Light" ?`
`02:21.01`	`End`	`(although, reading the man pages seems to indicate [ and test are builtins that simulate the real [ and test`
`02:21.04`	`End`	`)`
`02:21.15`	`Esamynn`	`maybe I'll finally get the stuff done on the test server that I've been intending to do for 3 weeks`
`02:21.33`	`AnduinLothar`	`well i just wrote a faily extensive bash script without too much trouble`
`02:21.34`	`End`	`I've tested most of my code`
`02:21.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`never having used the language before`
`02:22.13`	`Esamynn`	`End: yes, so have I, nothing broke in my set of AddOns at all`
`02:22.39`	`Esamynn`	`although I do need to get into Nax an get the exact zone name`
`02:23.35`	`End`	`Stargate SG-1 (01,19) - Tin Man`
`02:23.37`	`End`	`whoops`
`02:23.39`	`End`	`Stargate SG-1 (01,19) - Tin Man`
`02:23.41`	`End`	`doh`
`02:23.47`	`Esamynn`	`.................`
`02:23.53`	`End`	`pasting the wrong thing`
`02:23.57`	`End`	`Naxxramas`
`02:24.15`	`Esamynn`	`is that how it shows up in the "time til reset" message?`
`02:24.29`	`End`	`I dunno`
`02:24.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`02:24.30`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`02:24.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`02:24.59`	`Esamynn`	`my raid calendar addon works off of that message, so I need to check, not hard`
`02:25.54`	`End`	`does AQ40 show up as AhnQirajTemple?`
`02:26.06`	`Esamynn`	`just a sec, i'll check`
`02:27.21`	`Esamynn`	`Appologies for the spam:`
`02:27.23`	`Esamynn`	`InstancePeriods = { ["Blackwing Lair"] = 7 * day,`
`02:27.25`	`Esamynn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:27.26`	`Esamynn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:27.28`	`Esamynn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:27.29`	`Esamynn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:27.31`	`Esamynn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:27.37`	`End`	`hmmm`
`02:28.07`	`End`	`I'm not sure then`
`02:28.20`	`End`	`I'd guess Naxxramas, but you'll have to test for yourself`
`02:28.30`	`Esamynn`	`yes, exactly`
`02:32.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`02:49.49`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@d7-83.rb2.lax.centurytel.net)`
`03:02.16`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.25.152)`
`03:18.52`	`Wobin`	`zenzio: In regards to the question oh... 9 hours ago... It says if you're outside and alive, which you'd have to be to reset the instance`
`03:19.23`	`zenzio`	`yeah, someone pointed out the have-to-be-outsideness about that time too ;)`
`03:19.26`	`zenzio`	`but thanks`
`03:20.52`	`clad\|sleep`	`someone said my name like within the past two days`
`03:20.55`	`clad\|sleep`	`anyone know who?`
`03:21.49`	`zenzio`	`Jun 11 20:47:08 <krka> have you found it useful clad\|work?`
`03:22.08`	`zenzio`	`Jun 12 01:38:18 * Cairenn points at clad\|work, his mod`
`03:22.17`	`zenzio`	`all I can see`
`03:22.41`	`clad\|sleep`	`<3`
`03:22.49`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: <3`
`03:23.16`	`Cairenn`	`turned crispix on to watchdog`
`03:23.20`	`clad\|sleep`	`Oh`
`03:23.24`	`clad\|sleep`	`wait until he tries Clique =)`
`03:23.38`	`clad\|sleep`	`if i hadn't worked 40 hours in the past three days, It'd have been released this week`
`03:23.48`	`clad\|sleep`	`its very very very very close to release =)`
`03:24.03`	`Cairenn`	`out of curiosity, couple questions on it:`
`03:24.07`	`clad\|sleep`	`k`
`03:24.14`	`Cairenn`	`a) work with bars other than watchdog?`
`03:24.23`	`clad\|sleep`	`it will work with EVERYTHING out of the box`
`03:24.28`	`Tain`	`Do you have to be one of the cool kids to use it?`
`03:24.29`	`clad\|sleep`	`currently the blizzard frames for testing purposes.`
`03:24.38`	`clad\|sleep`	`Tain: You can't use it.. i have all your character names blacklisted.`
`03:24.42`	`Cairenn`	`b) ever gonna add a visual component, ie actual little boxes that you can put beside the bars?`
`03:24.48`	`Tain`	`Aw :(`
`03:24.53`	`clad\|sleep`	`shake it won't be Group Buttons just click-casting`
`03:25.18`	`Tain`	`Oh yeah I forgot I don't cast spells on anyone!`
`03:25.42`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: If you want to take it for a test spin as far as the UI goes.. I can send it on over... it needs some test driving.`
`03:26.04`	`Tain`	`Just don't drink and clique`
`03:26.05`	`Cairenn`	`damnit`
`03:26.34`	`clad\|sleep`	`damnit what?`
`03:27.00`	`Cairenn`	`need "group buttons" :p`
`03:27.03`	`Wobin`	`hm, do any of the 'healwatch' mods work with clickcasting? (ie, not actually changing the target to the healee)?`
`03:27.05`	`clad\|sleep`	`whyzzat? =(`
`03:27.13`	`clad\|sleep`	`Wobin: Any of them can`
`03:27.22`	`clad\|sleep`	`err`
`03:27.22`	`clad\|sleep`	`wait.`
`03:27.23`	`Wobin`	`'can', but 'do'?`
`03:27.23`	`clad\|sleep`	`no`
`03:27.25`	`clad\|sleep`	`they probbaly dont.`
`03:27.28`	`Wobin`	`yeah`
`03:27.47`	`clad\|sleep`	`i think Anduin, Cide and I are probably the one three sick enough to dig in all teh hooks necessary for that =0`
`03:28.10`	`Wobin`	`I'm more likely to use a clickcasting mod to heal (aka aceheal etal) but wouldn't mind the functionality of the healtrackers`
`03:28.11`	`Cairenn`	`clad\|sleep: need it for my mom, she needs the visual "click this box"`
`03:28.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Whoo`
`03:28.26`	`ScytheBlade1`	`First EVER attempt on domo`
`03:28.40`	`ScytheBlade1`	`We one-shot him`
`03:28.40`	`Wobin`	`hehe grats =)`
`03:29.16`	`Cairenn`	`1.11 NOT going live tomorrow`
`03:29.57`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: Aah.. i'm sorry`
`03:29.58`	`clad\|sleep`	`ScytheBlade1: Grats`
`03:30.04`	`Cairenn`	`no worries`
`03:30.11`	`Cairenn`	`she likes group buttons well enough`
`03:30.15`	`ScytheBlade1`	`It's amazing`
`03:30.25`	`Cairenn`	`I just shudder at the amount of resources I'm sure it uses`
`03:30.44`	`clad\|sleep`	`Hehe`
`03:30.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Yeah, we've been in MC for 1.5 months, we raid monday and saturday`
`03:30.48`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And we're on Rag`
`03:30.58`	`clad\|sleep`	`Anyone wanna play with the CLique UI and usage.? I can toss it up somewhere really quick.`
`03:33.44`	`Cairenn`	`clad\|sleep: can send it to me if you want, not sure how much good I can do on testing it though, since hunters don't cast many buffs or anything on party members ;)`
`03:34.00`	`clad\|sleep`	`you can use it to click-cast your trackings and aspects`
`03:34.02`	`clad\|sleep`	`its VERY handy for that`
`03:34.10`	`Cairenn`	`oh really?!`
`03:34.18`	`clad\|sleep`	`yeah`
`03:34.19`	`Cairenn`	`hmmmmmm`
`03:34.19`	`clad\|sleep`	`think about it`
`03:34.28`	`Cairenn`	`gimmah`
`03:34.29`	`clad\|sleep`	`shift-right click on your portrait to switch to Aspect of the Hawk`
`03:34.33`	`Cairenn`	`;)`
`03:34.35`	`clad\|sleep`	`Control-Right click to go to Cheetah =)`
`03:34.40`	`clad\|sleep`	`now,`
`03:34.44`	`clad\|sleep`	`right now only Default Friendly works`
`03:34.46`	`clad\|sleep`	`you'll see what I mean`
`03:34.50`	`clad\|sleep`	`but its the default anyway`
`03:34.58`	`clad\|sleep`	`all you do is open your spellbook`
`03:35.06`	`clad\|sleep`	`switch to the mouse with a wizard hat on`
`03:35.13`	`clad\|sleep`	`and click on a spell the way you want the click-cast set up`
`03:35.27`	`Cairenn`	`zomg, I put on my wizard hat and robe?!`
`03:36.04`	`clad\|sleep`	`nod`
`03:36.11`	`clad\|sleep`	`and go to ollivanders for your want`
`03:37.06`	`clad\|sleep`	`wand even`
`03:37.12`	`clad\|sleep`	`ok.. i'm going to go pass out.`
`03:37.23`	`Cairenn`	`well, you know my addy to send it to me`
`03:37.31`	`clad\|sleep`	`already sent.`
`03:37.31`	`Cairenn`	`if you want to`
`03:37.36`	`Cairenn`	`cool`
`03:37.39`	`clad\|sleep`	`=)`
`03:37.50`	`Wobin`	`this is 1.11?`
`03:37.57`	`Wobin`	`(cause of the cursor?)`
`03:38.06`	`clad\|sleep`	`for clique?`
`03:38.07`	`clad\|sleep`	`no`
`03:38.11`	`Wobin`	`woo`
`03:38.14`	`clad\|sleep`	`(what cursor?)`
`03:38.20`	`Wobin`	`Custom cursor =)`
`03:38.26`	`clad\|sleep`	`no, there's no custom cursor`
`03:38.28`	`clad\|sleep`	`but thats a fun idea =)`
`03:38.31`	`Wobin`	`I thought that was a 1.11 change`
`03:38.33`	`Wobin`	`=)`
`03:38.43`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: Feel free to send it to Wobin as well as others in the channel who would be interested- if you wouldn't mind.`
`03:38.51`	`clad\|sleep`	`i'll try to work on it tomorrow and get a beta up on WoWI`
`03:38.53`	`Cairenn`	`okay`
`03:38.58`	`Wobin`	`ooh. clique for distract`
`03:39.00`	`clad\|sleep`	`but i kinda want to release it non-beta only first`
`03:39.11`	`Wobin`	`or clique for huntersmark`
`03:39.12`	`clad\|sleep`	`Wobin: You can do that.. you just still have to place the aoe circle.`
`03:39.18`	`clad\|sleep`	`Wobin: DEFINITELY`
`03:39.21`	`clad\|sleep`	`click for pet attack =)`
`03:39.24`	`Wobin`	`hehe`
`03:39.28`	`clad\|sleep`	`and standby`
`03:39.33`	`clad\|sleep`	`once it gets fully done`
`03:39.35`	`Wobin`	`You need mouseactions next =)`
`03:39.38`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.13.192)`
`03:39.38`	`Wobin`	`aka Black and White`
`03:39.41`	`clad\|sleep`	`there are "hostile" keysets, and "friendly" keysets`
`03:39.53`	`clad\|sleep`	`so a right-click on hostile marks and sends pet using lua`
`03:39.59`	`clad\|sleep`	`rigth click on you puts pet on pas`
`03:40.01`	`clad\|sleep`	`passive`
`03:40.26`	`Wobin`	`rightclick on the pet model itself, or would it have to be the petframe?`
`03:40.34`	`clad\|sleep`	`could be any frame`
`03:40.36`	`clad\|sleep`	`raidframes,`
`03:40.40`	`clad\|sleep`	`player/party/pet`
`03:40.46`	`Wobin`	`but the pet itself?`
`03:40.51`	`clad\|sleep`	`no`
`03:40.59`	`clad\|sleep`	`i can't cast spells in response to you clikcing in the 3-d world`
`03:41.16`	`Wobin`	`not even using the worldframe?`
`03:41.30`	`Wobin`	`hm, can't pick up events that way I guess`
`03:41.47`	`clad\|sleep`	`well its not a matter of events`
`03:41.55`	`Wobin`	`erm, the mouseclick events =)`
`03:42.03`	`clad\|sleep`	`its technically possible`
`03:42.09`	`Wobin`	`bad use of the word I guess`
`03:42.10`	`clad\|sleep`	`but outside the scope of Clique`
`03:42.13`	`Wobin`	`yeah`
`03:42.15`	`clad\|sleep`	`i could write you a quick mod that does that tho`
`03:42.17`	`clad\|sleep`	`some day =)`
`03:42.27`	`clad\|sleep`	`it just won't target the pet.. which is probably okay`
`03:42.41`	`Wobin`	`hehe petleash`
`03:42.49`	`clad\|sleep`	`hook the LongNameCameraOrSelectOrDoSomethingElseHorribleName() function that is left clicking on the world.. and use the mouseover event to do it`
`03:42.56`	`clad\|sleep`	`either way`
`03:42.58`	`clad\|sleep`	`its bedtime for clad`
`03:43.02`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: did you get it?`
`03:43.03`	`Wobin`	`or targetchange`
`03:43.04`	`Cairenn`	`night night`
`03:43.09`	`Cairenn`	`checking`
`03:43.10`	`Wobin`	`if it's the pet, do the pullback`
`03:43.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`so... i ahve this script... how to i get it to output to file...`
`03:43.26`	`AnduinLothar`	`$SVN pg svn:externals "$dist" \| sed "s_^[^ ][^\t] ${SVN_ROOT}__" \| xargs svn log -r $[$CURR_REV]:$[$CURR_REV-100] $SVN_ROOT`
`03:43.42`	`clad\|sleep`	`> filename`
`03:43.49`	`AnduinLothar`	`doesn't work with xargs`
`03:43.50`	`clad\|sleep`	`cmd \| cmd \| cmd > filename`
`03:43.52`	`clad\|sleep`	`ack`
`03:43.55`	`Cairenn`	`clad\|sleep: not yet`
`03:44.24`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: If it doesn't show up, let me know and i'll try to ship it off`
`03:44.25`	`clad\|sleep`	`night`
`03:44.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`if i have the xargs there it puts the > filename before the extra args`
`03:44.43`	`Cairenn`	`clad\|sleep: nod`
`03:46.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`:(`
`03:48.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`i win`
`03:48.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`cmd \| cmd \| cmd \| cat > filename`
`03:50.02`	`Wobin`	`hehe =)`
`03:50.08`	`Wobin`	`meow`
`03:59.35`	`Esamynn`	`clad\|sleep: care to explain this AddOn you've been talking about? (I'm totally in the dark :( )`
`03:59.47`	`Wobin`	`hrm`
`04:00.02`	`Wobin`	`Can someone relink the 1.11 changes that were on the woweu forums?`
`04:00.27`	`Cairenn`	`Wobin: were they somehow different from the ones on the US forums?`
`04:00.35`	`Wobin`	`I'm not sure`
`04:00.45`	`Wobin`	`I'm only asking since they were the most recent ones linked`
`04:00.54`	`Wobin`	`So I assume there was some difference =)`
`04:01.47`	`Wobin`	`https://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-test-realm-en&t=150834`
`04:01.50`	`Wobin`	`there we go`
`04:01.52`	`Esamynn`	`of course there is: Iriel's are better :P`
`04:08.25`	`Iriel`	`AnduinLothar: You can use ( ) to group the inner commands then > the result`
`04:08.27`	`Iriel`	`I fell asleep`
`04:08.30`	`Iriel`	`then woke back up again`
`04:08.38`	`Iriel`	`Literally`
`04:09.24`	`ScytheBlade1`	`First rag try, 60%`
`04:10.04`	`Cairenn`	`Iriel: might I suggest then that perhaps your body is telling you it would appreciate some extra rest and mayhap you should heed it?`
`04:10.58`	`Cairenn`	`nod`
`04:11.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`thx iriel`
`04:11.07`	`Cairenn`	`I can relate to that one`
`04:11.19`	`Cairenn`	`since I have a habit of doing precisely that`
`04:11.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`sleep? what's that?`
`04:12.39`	`Iriel`	`About an hour then I can go to bed for real`
`04:12.44`	`Cairenn`	`and since I know some folks weren't here/missed it ... 1.11 is NOT tomorrow`
`04:12.50`	`Esamynn`	`lol`
`04:13.03`	`Esamynn`	`Iriel: what's wrong with now? :P`
`04:14.23`	`Iriel`	`I wont sleep, the tv's on in the bedroom, and then i'll not want to lay there more than an hour and by then I wont be tired and i'll get up again and it'll be 3am before I know it`
`04:14.30`	`Iriel`	`this is safer, as long as I avoid caffeine`
`04:15.27`	`Esamynn`	`yes, it sounds like it ;)`
`04:16.32`	`Iriel`	`The real problem is I got to sleep at around 3am, got woken up at 7am, slept again from 8:30 til 10:30, then got up and had to start working again`
`04:25.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`this doesn't make any sense...`
`04:25.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`this works fine from command line bash, but doesn't something different in the script..`
`04:26.01`	`AnduinLothar`	`does* something diff`
`04:28.41`	`Iriel`	`Hm what's the difference?`
`04:28.44`	`Iriel`	`In outcome, that is`
`04:29.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`in the script it doesn't seem to be returning any xargs`
`04:29.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`so it just prints the SVN_ROOT log to the file`
`04:30.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`rather then the merged log of all the externals`
`04:31.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`doh`
`04:32.12`	`Iriel`	`Hm, could it be a different default verbosity between interactive and non-interactive use?`
`04:32.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`nah, here i am strugling over this for over an hour.. the variable's named wrong..`
`04:33.13`	`AnduinLothar`	`that's a good sign i should not be coding..`
`04:37.06`	`AnduinLothar`	`and another problem...`
`04:37.17`	`AnduinLothar`	`revisioned svn:externals`
`04:37.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`path -rXXXX svnpath`
`04:37.38`	`End`	`yeah`
`04:37.49`	`Esamynn`	`GAH!!!, someone re-arranged the Wiki!!!`
`04:37.50`	`End`	`the script I gave didn't account for that`
`04:37.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`yeah, we use that`
`04:38.04`	`End`	`I'll help you fix that later, if you want`
`04:38.11`	`AnduinLothar`	`and zomg it's gonna hurt my brain`
`04:38.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`esp since if it's revisioned i need the previous 100 revesions`
`04:38.48`	`End`	`oh wait, I just realized a problem :P`
`04:38.53`	`End`	`I think`
`04:38.57`	`End`	`unless`
`04:40.17`	`Iriel`	`Esamynn : rearranged, or redid the index page?`
`04:40.35`	`Esamynn`	`just the index page`
`04:40.41`	`Esamynn`	`caught me off guard`
`04:41.00`	`AnduinLothar`	`is there a way to get a group of text either once or none with regex?`
`04:41.08`	`Cairenn`	`I think it looks good`
`04:41.29`	`AnduinLothar`	`as in i want to fine "-r#### path" or jsut "path"`
`04:42.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`better yet.. is there even a way to use svn log to merge different revisions from different files..`
`04:43.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`doesn't loog liek it O.o`
`04:43.45`	`End`	`maybe`
`04:43.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`trunk/Interface/AddOns/Earth`
`04:43.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`er`
`04:43.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`svn: Multiple revision arguments encountered; try '-r M:N' instead of '-r M -r N'`
`04:43.57`	`End`	`I know one way of specifying urls`
`04:43.59`	`End`	`that might work`
`04:44.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`no, it doesn't`
`04:44.28`	`AnduinLothar`	`er`
`04:44.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`meh`
`04:44.34`	`AnduinLothar`	`nrain splode`
`04:44.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`grah! can't type`
`04:52.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`and zomg file appending is >> why don't i just use that instead of prepending with python..`
`04:52.47`	`Esamynn`	`by gosh, I think he's learning!! :D`
`04:57.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`04:57.41`	`Ratbert_CP`	`C/nn/r1!`
`04:58.49`	`Wobin`	`?`
`05:02.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`End> I know one way of specifying urls?`
`05:11.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@62.66.170.252)`
`05:12.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge duke\|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`05:19.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`05:19.23`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (n=Dolby@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com)`
`05:19.23`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Dolby-wowi] by ChanServ`
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`05:52.52`	`Iriel`	`night`
`05:53.02`	`AnduinLothar`	`meh`
`05:53.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`night`
`05:56.34`	`Wobin`	`I need a nice icon for the MrPlowFu plugin. Maybe a small cartoon snowplow or something (if it could even be recognisable at that size...)`
`06:08.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge s\|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de)`
`06:10.17`	`Esamynn`	`night all`
`06:11.30`	`Cairenn`	`sleep time for me as well`
`06:11.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`rawr`
`06:12.04`	`Ktron`	`hey AnduinLothar`
`06:12.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`bash is not being nice to me`
`06:13.41`	`Ktron`	`~lart bash`
`06:17.51`	`s\|loup`	`hi`
`06:20.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0043.vpn.uni-saarland.de)`
`06:21.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222)`
`06:21.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-42-137.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`06:22.08`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl)`
`06:33.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`wow, it works`
`06:33.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`it's ugly tho`
`06:43.30`	`s\|loup`	`does anyone know whats the attribute bytes in fontstring?`
`07:06.10`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge [Cu]NeT (n=net@dslb-088-064-184-077.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`07:10.08`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge krka\|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net)`
`07:27.52`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`08:25.15`	`wereHamster`	`morning`
`09:05.02`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge SinPi (i=sinus@dsw204.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`10:03.53`	`Wobin`	`Anyone awake?`
`10:09.03`	`s\|loup`	`yes`
`10:11.35`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk)`
`10:14.40`	`Wobin`	`Anyone awake that can approve an addon on WoWI? =)`
`10:40.24`	`wereHamster`	`my catingbar: http://www.dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/objection.png .. very simple, no text, no time, green on black background and flashes red when the spell is interrupted..`
`10:45.23`	`s\|loup`	`whats the numbers in the left bottom frames?`
`10:45.36`	`s\|loup`	`ah mana health ^^`
`10:49.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-151-104-48.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`10:50.22`	`Kaso`	`"doesnt matter anyway all Model Changing is nerfed in Patch 1.11" <- That's not true is it?`
`10:51.33`	`Kalroth`	`I think so, apparently they're going to protect the model files`
`10:51.41`	`Kalroth`	`so the client wont load replacements`
`10:52.46`	`wereHamster`	`it's about time..`
`10:52.58`	`Kaso`	`Hmm, i'll have to check on the test when i get home to see how they're doing that.`
`10:54.02`	`Legorol^`	`Kaso: it's trivial, you just don't load files from anything other than the MPQs`
`10:54.16`	`Kaso`	`but then cant you just compress your file into a new MPQ`
`10:59.36`	`zenzio`	`I would think the client would have a list of valid MPQs, so people couldn't do that; but that's just speculation on my part`
`11:02.23`	`wereHamster`	`strings WoW.exe \| grep -i mpq ;)`
`11:11.37`	`Kalroth`	`the mpqs got a checksum, Kaso`
`11:11.47`	`Kalroth`	`so you can't recreate them`
`11:12.10`	`Kalroth`	`it doesn't matter really, why would anyone want to replace a model?`
`11:12.32`	`Kalroth`	`unless it's for hitbox exploitation`
`11:12.56`	`Elkano`	`CareBear-Coil?`
`11:14.23`	`krka\|work`	`http://bash.org/?652012`
`11:14.33`	`Kalroth`	`<3 bash`
`11:15.54`	`Elkano`	`Yarr`
`11:20.11`	`Kaso`	`Kalroth wouldnt checksuming ever mpq on each bootup take a quite a large amount of time?`
`11:20.45`	`Kalroth`	`mmm, it only needs to do the check when it loads the files`
`11:20.58`	`krka\|work`	`limited by your harddrive reading speed, basically`
`11:21.13`	`krka\|work`	`calculating a checksum should be pretty simple and fast`
`11:21.32`	`Kalroth`	`instead of going on a 3gb checksum venture when booting, it's easier to check files as you use them`
`11:23.00`	`Kaso`	`hmm, i'll try compressing an interface xml into the mpq when i get home and see what happens.`
`11:23.34`	`Kaso`	`I wonder if they've even though about that or they've just assumed its not too much of an issue due to the effort it'd take to do it.`
`11:23.43`	`Kaso`	`thought even`
`11:24.50`	`Legorol^`	`ok here is the deal as i see it:`
`11:24.58`	`Legorol^`	`checksumming the mpq on load takes way too long`
`11:25.04`	`Legorol^`	`unaccaptable from an end-users point of view`
`11:25.13`	`Legorol^`	`also, checksumming each file as it loads is probably problematic too`
`11:25.33`	`Legorol^`	`however, if you have ever tried to inject a file into a WoW mpq, you will find that there is no 3rd party tool at the moment that can successfully do that`
`11:25.33`	`Kalroth`	`why?`
`11:25.45`	`Kalroth`	`uhm, winmpq?`
`11:25.49`	`Legorol^`	`it can't`
`11:25.53`	`Legorol^`	`i have struggled with it for a while`
`11:25.56`	`Kaso`	`I did not know that.`
`11:26.02`	`Kalroth`	`oh, so it makes a bad .mpq ?`
`11:26.03`	`Legorol^`	`never succeeded in replacing a file in an mpq`
`11:26.08`	`Legorol^`	`i beleive it does, Kalroth`
`11:26.14`	`Kalroth`	`nod`
`11:26.15`	`krka\|work`	`is the mpq file format semi-unknown to us?`
`11:26.16`	`Legorol^`	`especially things like patch.mpq, which is over 1 gig in size`
`11:26.23`	`Legorol^`	`krka: it is pretty well known, afaik`
`11:26.31`	`krka\|work`	`so what is the problem? :)`
`11:26.35`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: it's a rather simple archive format, but Blizzard uses all kinds of hacks with it`
`11:26.38`	`krka\|work`	`some cryptographic feature?`
`11:26.41`	`Kalroth`	`nope`
`11:26.43`	`Legorol^`	`i don't know, all i know is that winmpq croaks when it tries to repackage the mpq`
`11:26.49`	`Kalroth`	`simple compression actually`
`11:27.07`	`Kalroth`	`but it uses a stupid file list format`
`11:27.20`	`krka\|work`	`checksumming should be fast... i know most md5 implementations are very fast`
`11:27.27`	`zenzio`	`I haven't searched a great deal, but what I did see when I tried once was that the guides all seemed to suggest borrowing Blizzard's .dll rather than describe the format`
`11:27.37`	`wereHamster`	`mpq doesn't contain the names of the files in it.. only hashes`
`11:27.47`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: md5 is extremely fast, it's the problem of going through 3gb of data`
`11:27.55`	`krka\|work`	`don't you have to do that anyway?`
`11:28.01`	`wereHamster`	`so you need an external file list of do a brute-force method to find them out`
`11:28.02`	`Kalroth`	`yup zenzio, because it's a hacky format`
`11:28.17`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: not if you memorymap the file and only load on demand`
`11:28.42`	`krka\|work`	`yeah, i figured you would checksum the files you read from it`
`11:29.11`	`Industrial`	`http://www.osvids.com/`
`11:29.12`	`Kalroth`	`the main problem with injecting files is that you have to rebuild the whole archive`
`11:29.36`	`Kalroth`	`since the file list only consists of hashvalue -> file pointer`
`11:29.55`	`Kalroth`	`you can inject packed files if they're equal or smaller, just overwrite the existing data`
`11:30.06`	`Kalroth`	`but if they do checksum controls, then you're effed ;p`
`11:30.36`	`krka\|work`	`well, where do they get the checksums?`
`11:30.45`	`krka\|work`	`you mean sending your checksum to the server?`
`11:30.47`	`Legorol^`	`at the moment, there are no checksums in the mpq`
`11:30.55`	`Kalroth`	`there is of the packed data, Lego`
`11:30.56`	`Legorol^`	`but they can have a list of checksums on client end`
`11:31.03`	`Kalroth`	`but I don't think it's used for anything atm`
`11:31.13`	`Legorol^`	`there is?`
`11:31.16`	`Legorol^`	`well i didn't know that`
`11:31.25`	`Legorol^`	`either way, i'm pretty sure it's not used for anything`
`11:31.26`	`Kalroth`	`yeah, all the compressed chunks got a checksum afaik`
`11:31.47`	`Legorol^`	`basically what they could do is to sign files like they do with the Blizz addons`
`11:31.55`	`Legorol^`	`then they have to check files as they load`
`11:31.59`	`krka\|work`	`checksums are pretty much only useful as a service to the user to find broken data, not as a protection mechanism`
`11:32.03`	`Legorol^`	`i don't know how much delay that'd add to loading times`
`11:32.34`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: it's a pretty good protection if you assume that people don't want to fondle the game client`
`11:32.45`	`Kalroth`	`(because the warden will detect that :)`
`11:32.48`	`krka\|work`	`yeah, true`
`11:32.49`	`Legorol^`	`which they do, Kalroth :)`
`11:32.58`	`Legorol^`	`right`
`11:32.59`	`krka\|work`	`i was mostly thinking theoretically`
`11:33.07`	`Legorol^`	`but if the checksums are stored in anything other than wow.exe, you could alter that too`
`11:33.14`	`Kalroth`	`of course, Leg`
`11:33.15`	`Legorol^`	`they need signing, rather than checksumming`
`11:33.17`	`krka\|work`	`<PROTECTED>`
`11:33.21`	`Kalroth`	`no software is ever safe`
`11:33.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)`
`11:33.38`	`krka\|work`	`cryptographic signatures can go a long way`
`11:33.46`	`Kalroth`	`you can add hardware dongles, do silly anti-debugging measures, etc etc`
`11:34.02`	`Legorol^`	`question is, is the performance penalty of using crypto worth it?`
`11:34.09`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: the software needs to unpack the data at some time`
`11:34.15`	`_B`	`Hardware dongles are hot`
`11:34.15`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: just intercept that and voila`
`11:34.22`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge clad\|sleep (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`11:34.27`	`Legorol^`	`then you are caught by warden though, Kalroth`
`11:34.35`	`Legorol^`	`we are talking purely about modifying on-disk files`
`11:34.57`	`Kalroth`	`aye`
`11:34.58`	`Kalroth`	`I was going a bit beyond that :p`
`11:35.14`	`Kalroth`	`(and sadly warden is disabled too easily ><)`
`11:35.24`	`krka\|work`	`don't think i actually run warden`
`11:35.28`	`Kalroth`	`you do`
`11:35.35`	`Kalroth`	`it's not an actual process`
`11:35.36`	`krka\|work`	`and even if i do, it can't detect much of my system`
`11:35.41`	`Kalroth`	`I know :)`
`11:36.00`	`krka\|work`	`hmm... does wine work in cygwin?`
`11:36.10`	`krka\|work`	`would be cool to run wow through cedega in windows =)`
`11:36.12`	`Kalroth`	`the warden is an executeable that's downloaded from the wow servers and injected into the clients memory space and then started`
`11:38.50`	`Industrial`	`Wow's warden has been worked around from the start`
`11:39.00`	`Industrial`	`By people from the counterstrike cheating community`
`11:39.07`	`Industrial`	`(multiplayercheats.de)`
`11:39.27`	`Industrial`	`speedhack, teleport hacks, etc`
`11:39.28`	`Kalroth`	`the cool thing about warden is that Blizzard can update it on the fly`
`11:40.03`	`Industrial`	`the author told me it wasnt a hack to how the warden works now`
`11:40.06`	`Industrial`	`but just bypasses it`
`11:41.25`	`wereHamster`	`oh.. runtime code injection.. maybe that's why there are memory layout problems in wine/cedega`
`11:41.42`	`Kalroth`	`that may very well be`
`11:42.40`	`wereHamster`	`but blizzard doesn't even want to talk with the wine developers about it..`
`11:42.49`	`Legorol^`	`understandably`
`11:42.53`	`Legorol^`	`they'd have to give out too much detail`
`11:43.26`	`Legorol^`	`Industrial: so people have enough details about how and when warden runs now?`
`11:43.28`	`wereHamster`	`blizzard probably does some pointer magic and uses the high/low bits for additional information..`
`11:43.29`	`Legorol^`	`so they can bypass it?`
`11:43.40`	`Industrial`	`Legorol^: yes`
`11:43.46`	`Legorol^`	`that's sad :(`
`11:43.52`	`Legorol^`	`i was a great fan of warden ;-)`
`11:44.01`	`Industrial`	`Hehe`
`11:44.04`	`Legorol^`	`since i run WoW as a regular user account, it can't sniff my system`
`11:44.08`	`Legorol^`	`but it made hackers life hard`
`11:44.14`	`Industrial`	`it does`
`11:44.19`	`Industrial`	`its pretty tight`
`11:44.20`	`Industrial`	`:P`
`11:44.21`	`Legorol^`	`not if they can beat it`
`11:44.41`	`Industrial`	`(Myself, I'm not into it though, I just follow the community)`
`11:44.48`	`Legorol^`	`O.o`
`11:44.53`	`Legorol^`	`which community would that be`
`11:44.56`	`MoonWolf`	`Industrial isnt alone.`
`11:45.04`	`Legorol^`	`the only one i was aware of was wowsharp,`
`11:45.06`	`Legorol^`	`and i haven't checked in a while`
`11:45.09`	`Legorol^`	`i thought they gave up`
`11:45.11`	`Industrial`	`the cheating community sprouted from counterstrike`
`11:45.14`	`MoonWolf`	`I'm not telling.`
`11:45.18`	`wereHamster`	`.. at least that's what the wine developers think.. and they can work around it by moving the base address where DLLs are loaded to 0x1000000 or something like that`
`11:45.19`	`Legorol^`	`hehe, meany :p`
`11:45.37`	`Industrial`	`I was into counterstrike cheating some years ago ;)`
`11:45.45`	`Legorol^`	`aha!`
`11:45.47`	`Industrial`	`(only vs other cheaters - but lets not go there)`
`11:45.59`	`Industrial`	`cough`
`11:46.23`	`Legorol^`	`well i do occasionally check on wow cheats out of interest, but haven't done so in a long while`
`11:46.30`	`Kalroth`	`Legorol^: the money that goldfarmers make is alone enough to form a small community of exploiters`
`11:46.41`	`Legorol^`	`true`
`11:47.02`	`Industrial`	`what if IGE would employ some coders ;)`
`11:47.30`	`MoonWolf`	`they already do.`
`11:47.54`	`Industrial`	`afaik its not paying off`
`11:48.05`	`Industrial`	`but i dont know how gold is farmed so i cant really say for sure`
`11:48.11`	`wereHamster`	`running WoW on a hacked wine should be no problem.. just replace the opengl dll with noop functions and you could run quite a lot WoW instances on one computer :)`
`11:48.18`	`Industrial`	`ah ye`
`11:49.23`	`Industrial`	`and teleports to chests and such`
`11:49.46`	`Industrial`	`walkout and back in - teleport, loot, rinse repeat`
`11:50.06`	`Industrial`	`thats easily checkable by the wow admins tho`
`11:50.11`	`wereHamster`	`and.. since WoW relies on a certain memory layout, it won't work under Vista..`
`11:50.41`	`MoonWolf`	`great`
`11:50.47`	`MoonWolf`	`point number one to not upgrade!`
`11:51.07`	`MoonWolf`	`who needs a OS that needs more resources the your favourite game anyway`
`11:51.16`	`MoonWolf`	`and the game isnt older the 2 years.`
`11:51.20`	`MoonWolf`	`half life doesnt count.`
`11:51.49`	`zenzio`	`I still don't see the fuzz about Vista`
`11:52.44`	`_B`	`DRM`
`11:53.26`	`zenzio`	`I wouldn't bother upgrading to something just because of DRM`
`11:53.53`	`zenzio`	`now the ugly "new" UI`
`11:54.31`	`zenzio`	`now = nor`
`11:55.57`	`wereHamster`	`Vista uses ASLR (address space layout randomization).. there even is a wikipedia entry ;)`
`11:57.35`	`MoonWolf`	`thats not fun`
`11:57.57`	`MoonWolf`	`that means i have to redo every memory poke and freeze adress for all my games again, every time i start them!`
`11:58.45`	`Corrodias`	`i have yet to hear even -one- good thing about Vista except the better "run as..." support.`
`11:58.52`	`MoonWolf`	`lol`
`11:59.10`	`zenzio`	`I tend to agree`
`11:59.13`	`Corrodias`	`excuse me... "supposedly better"`
`12:00.00`	`wereHamster`	`http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2006/05/26/608315.aspx#609414`
`12:00.21`	`wereHamster`	`Mike Hearn.. one of the wine developers ;)`
`12:01.42`	`Corrodias`	`is this about preventing buffer overflow attacks? :o`
`12:02.51`	`Corrodias`	`or will such a feature affect your ability to modify a process's memory and hook function calls?`
`12:04.05`	`Corrodias`	`why can't people just use safe buffer copying methods...`
`12:05.19`	`wereHamster`	`tell that the worm/virus authors..`
`12:07.44`	`MoonWolf`	`Corrodias, because people in general dont do safe programming.`
`12:08.25`	`krka\|work`	`just avoid c / c++ and you're fine`
`12:08.32`	`krka\|work`	`almost all other languages have safe buffers`
`12:08.59`	`Corrodias`	`why can't we all use python? :(`
`12:09.06`	`Corrodias`	`i bet that does`
`12:09.21`	`MoonWolf`	`Corrodias, because certain people like perl.`
`12:09.26`	`Corrodias`	`i really shouldn't have put it forward like that without checking, first`
`12:09.28`	`krka\|work`	`python, lua, java, haskell, scheme, ... it all has safe buffers`
`12:12.43`	`Kalroth`	`C#!`
`12:13.37`	`krka\|work`	`ms crap :P`
`12:18.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`12:18.22`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`12:20.11`	`Industrial`	`sheme wasnt that the weird language thingy with the ()()()'s?`
`12:20.20`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page ? :p`
`12:20.36`	`Kalroth`	`that was lisp!`
`12:20.41`	`Kalroth`	`((((((((((((1+1))))))))))))))))`
`12:20.44`	`zenzio`	`mono doesn't change the fact that C# is an MS thing`
`12:20.53`	`wereHamster`	`Kalroth, what does it do?`
`12:21.10`	`Industrial`	`Kalroth: so whats scheme? is it fun to learn? can i make useful stuff with it?`
`12:21.15`	`Corrodias`	`Scheme is based on Lisp`
`12:21.17`	`Industrial`	`Kalroth: like an irc bot?`
`12:21.22`	`Industrial`	`:P`
`12:21.30`	`Kalroth`	`learn tcl!`
`12:21.32`	`Corrodias`	`mono is a third party .NET runtime thing, i think`
`12:21.33`	`Industrial`	`noes!`
`12:21.40`	`Kalroth`	`Corrodias: uh no`
`12:21.41`	`krka\|work`	`that's not valid lisp Kalroth`
`12:21.45`	`Corrodias`	`no?`
`12:21.57`	`krka\|work`	`useless () are not allowed`
`12:22.11`	`Kalroth`	`Corrodias: well it's more than that :)`
`12:22.41`	`krka\|work`	`every () is basically a function evaluation in lisp`
`12:22.43`	`zenzio`	`"Mono provides the necessary software to develop and run .NET client and server applications on Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, Windows, and Unix."`
`12:22.45`	`zenzio`	`sounds like a runtime`
`12:22.56`	`krka\|work`	`so (+ 1 1) means call the function "+" with the paramets 1 and 1`
`12:23.04`	`Kalroth`	`krka\|work: oh ok, sorry. Then it's (1+(4+(4+(2-(3-4))))) then!`
`12:23.21`	`krka\|work`	`((f a1 a2)) would be valid if (f a1 a2) returned a function :)`
`12:23.32`	`krka\|work`	`but + returns a number and not a function :P`
`12:23.40`	`Kalroth`	`ok ok, lets not talk lisp please!`
`12:23.41`	`JoshBorke`	`oh noes! not scheme!`
`12:24.00`	`Kalroth`	`Corrodias: http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_General`
`12:24.02`	`krka\|work`	`scheme is kinda pretty in its simple parsing :)`
`12:24.59`	`wereHamster`	`has anyone ever written something useful in ook or brainf***?`
`12:25.05`	`Industrial`	`I am intrigued, I shall find out what this scheme thingy is`
`12:25.06`	`krka\|work`	`or whitespace!`
`12:25.19`	`krka\|work`	`http://www.schemers.org/`
`12:25.25`	`Industrial`	`wikipedia :E`
`12:25.41`	`Industrial`	`but thanks \o/`
`12:25.55`	`krka\|work`	`wikipedia might be a better start i guess :)`
`12:33.26`	`Wobin`	`I'd like to do something in ook`
`12:33.34`	`Wobin`	`but that's only the pterry fan in me talking`
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`13:17.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
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`13:26.30`	`End`	`heh, the new "preview" WoW.com main page doesn't work now :P`
`13:29.28`	`End`	`oh, they fixed it now`
`13:29.42`	`End`	`(it wasn't valid xml for a bit)`
`13:31.38`	`wereHamster`	`preview page?`
`13:32.02`	`End`	`http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml`
`13:37.46`	`Kalroth`	`XML Parsing Error: no element found`
`13:37.47`	`Kalroth`	`lol`
`13:38.00`	`End`	`I was getting a similar error`
`13:38.15`	`wereHamster`	`and my firefox crashes ..`
`13:54.38`	`wereHamster`	`Does blizzard read what's in the suggestions forum? I have never seen a blue reply... maybe it would be better to post this in the US UI forum... http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-suggestion-en&t=213162`
`13:55.30`	`s\|loup`	`its europe there are no addon known bliiard officials`
`13:56.33`	`Industrial`	`the problem is that eh bastards didnt give us access tot he us forums`
`13:56.36`	`wereHamster`	`they also have some unused variables in CastingBarFrame.lua`
`13:56.37`	`Industrial`	`why split it up anyway`
`13:56.39`	`Industrial`	`thats retarded`
`13:56.40`	`End`	`well, the developers and designers are all US (considering that's where everything is headquartered)`
`13:57.07`	`End`	`slouken is just one of the developers`
`13:57.36`	`End`	`..who happens to do a lot of work on the ui api`
`14:01.45`	`wereHamster`	`EU doesn't even have an Bugs forum.. how are we supposed to report bugs ?`
`14:02.00`	`End`	`hrm, that sounds bad`
`14:02.26`	`s\|loup`	`eu have also no moderated forums ;)`
`14:02.33`	`wereHamster`	`and if someone finds a bug in the UI and reports it to the german UI forum.. I really doubt the report gets through to the developers`
`14:04.53`	`s\|loup`	`i dont think that german forum moderators are clever enough to understand what people want to report`
`14:47.01`	`Tain`	`Ok I evidently missed some bits of Blizzard humor in the past.`
`14:47.05`	`Tain`	`"Congratulations! You've successfully changed your contact information! Tales of this historic moment will be told and retold down through the generations. Way to go!"`
`14:47.24`	`krka\|work`	`lol`
`14:47.36`	`krka\|work`	`blizz employees are way understressed`
`14:49.06`	`Wobin`	`hrm, is there an event fired on a use of a tradeskill?`
`14:51.00`	`Tain`	`WOBIN'S_TRADESKILL_USED`
`14:51.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`14:51.17`	`Wobin`	`hrm, is there an event fired on a use of a tradeskill?`
`14:51.34`	`Tain`	`I'm not sure.`
`14:51.48`	`MoonWolf`	`there is a chat event on completion of a tradeskill`
`14:51.51`	`MoonWolf`	`i know that much`
`14:52.36`	`Wobin`	`Looks like I'd have to hook the function =\`
`14:53.42`	`End`	`isn't the chat event something like Person creates: [Large and Very Friendly Pants].`
`14:53.46`	`End`	`er, chat message`
`14:54.01`	`End`	`(which comes from the event)`
`14:54.22`	`End`	`I doubt it is especially identifiable.`
`14:58.31`	`Wobin`	`yeah`
`14:58.36`	`Wobin`	`It's not very helpful =)`
`14:58.44`	`Wobin`	`Especially in figuring out just which skill was used`
`14:59.38`	`End`	`hmm, most have a cast time though`
`15:00.05`	`End`	`(I say most even though I can think of none that don't)`
`15:00.56`	`End`	`although, still determing that it's a tradeskill or not still takes extra work I would think`
`15:01.20`	`End`	`(or, which tradeskill)`
`15:01.51`	`Wobin`	`Iam NOT the Author of this Addon. I dont get any Credits for this Addon! i only Uploadet it here becouse other Addonwebsites somtimes are VERY slow or down.`
`15:01.55`	`Wobin`	`?`
`15:02.03`	`Wobin`	`I didn't think WoWi did that...?`
`15:02.43`	`End`	`not usually....`
`15:07.55`	`End`	`(you should alert Cairenn though)`
`15:09.26`	`Cairenn\|sleep`	`Wobin: link, please?`
`15:09.39`	`Wobin`	`oh um...`
`15:09.49`	`Cairenn`	`or mod name`
`15:09.54`	`Cairenn`	`or something`
`15:09.56`	`Wobin`	`MoveAnything`
`15:10.01`	`Wobin`	`It's one of the latest ones`
`15:10.08`	`Wobin`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5053-MoveAnything.html`
`15:10.22`	`Cairenn`	`got it, thanks`
`15:10.54`	`Cairenn`	`gone`
`15:12.12`	`Wobin`	`=)`
`15:13.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce4.disney.com)`
`15:33.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net)`
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`15:46.26`	`ToastTheif`	`whaddup homies`
`15:47.17`	`Gryphen`	`the sky`
`15:47.47`	`Cairenn`	`stars`
`15:49.44`	`ToastTheif`	`omg`
`15:49.49`	`ToastTheif`	`the moon last night`
`15:49.51`	`ToastTheif`	`was like whoa`
`15:50.01`	`_B`	`You remind me of myspace`
`15:50.10`	`MoonWolf`	`big ?`
`15:50.20`	`ToastTheif`	`me?`
`15:50.26`	`ToastTheif`	`I don't even have a my space`
`15:50.30`	`ToastTheif`	`it was a full moon`
`15:50.34`	`ToastTheif`	`and it was all orange`
`15:50.36`	`ToastTheif`	`and bright`
`15:50.39`	`ToastTheif`	`was pretty cool`
`15:51.02`	`Cairenn`	`sounds like your typical "harvest moon"`
`15:51.07`	`End`	`dude, stop stealing my toast`
`15:51.16`	`Cairenn`	`and yeah, it's pretty amazing like that`
`15:51.29`	`ToastTheif`	`end, shush`
`15:51.36`	`End`	`no, you shush!`
`15:51.37`	`MoonWolf`	`i hate it when the topic is the moon`
`15:51.38`	`ToastTheif`	`no one must know..`
`15:51.40`	`MoonWolf`	`highlite heavon.`
`15:51.42`	`End`	`I want my toast back!`
`15:51.46`	`Cairenn`	`lol MoonWolf`
`15:51.58`	`ToastTheif`	`hey umm why can't I get on to the svn?`
`15:52.08`	`MoonWolf`	`we dont like you anymore`
`15:52.19`	`ToastTheif`	`why not =(`
`15:52.27`	`ToastTheif`	`I still love me`
`15:52.31`	`Cairenn`	`there shall not be moon talk in this channel`
`15:52.32`	`MoonWolf`	`do you mean the web interface ?`
`15:52.36`	`MoonWolf`	`gaaah`
`15:52.45`	`End`	`What about the moon, Cairenn!??`
`15:52.46`	`Cairenn`	`discussion of all things moon like will cause melting of the moon`
`15:52.53`	`Cairenn`	`moons will be melted`
`15:52.59`	`End`	`mooooon?`
`15:52.59`	`ToastTheif`	`so`
`15:53.04`	`ToastTheif`	`ace svn is.. down?`
`15:53.16`	`MoonWolf`	`try svn.wowace.com/root/`
`15:53.18`	`End`	`looks up to me`
`15:53.32`	`End`	`svn::web is broke`
`15:53.33`	`Cairenn`	`just like the moon ... up`
`15:53.36`	`End`	`but it's been broke for a while`
`15:53.37`	`MoonWolf`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:53.48`	`End`	`the moon is very moon-like`
`15:54.03`	`ToastTheif`	`hmm`
`15:54.06`	`ToastTheif`	`thannk you end`
`15:54.14`	`MoonWolf`	`dont make me /ignore @.*`
`15:54.22`	`Cairenn`	`awwwwwww`
`15:54.24`	`End`	`don't make me mention the moon`
`15:54.31`	`MoonWolf`	`lalalala`
`15:54.34`	`MoonWolf`	`cant year you.`
`15:54.58`	`End`	`ignoring everyone doesn't seem very useful`
`15:55.06`	`MoonWolf`	`O RLY`
`15:55.07`	`End`	`I mean, that way you can't even talk about the moon!`
`15:55.17`	`Cairenn`	`hehehehe`
`15:55.28`	`Cairenn`	`you realize you brought it on yourself by telling us, yes?`
`15:55.33`	`MoonWolf`	`yes`
`15:55.35`	`MoonWolf`	`tes i do.`
`15:55.37`	`MoonWolf`	`yes*`
`15:55.45`	`ToastTheif`	`hmm`
`15:55.47`	`ToastTheif`	`MiniBlizzRaid`
`15:55.51`	`ToastTheif`	`who's addon be that`
`15:55.57`	`MoonWolf`	`cladhaire`
`15:56.10`	`MoonWolf`	`good when using ctra , perfectraid xraid`
`15:56.13`	`Cairenn`	`cl ... lol`
`15:56.15`	`MoonWolf`	`or another raid addon that isnt blizzards.`
`15:56.37`	`ToastTheif`	`why?`
`15:57.03`	`End`	`opening blizzard's always freezes my ui up for a few seconds`
`15:57.10`	`MoonWolf`	`prevents it from loading`
`15:57.17`	`MoonWolf`	`saving you memory you would be using anyway.`
`15:57.27`	`ToastTheif`	`eh I use blizzards still though`
`15:57.32`	`ToastTheif`	`cuz I can't click on names in CTRA`
`15:57.38`	`MoonWolf`	`no use for you then.`
`15:58.43`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`16:02.01`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zenzio_ (n=zenzelez@ti131310a080-2285.bb.online.no)`
`16:11.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com)`
`16:11.34`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`16:16.02`	`Cide`	`hmm, I'm trying out this editor, TextPad.. has anyone tried it?`
`16:19.51`	`Tain`	`I did try TextPad`
`16:20.05`	`Tain`	`But I just still liked SciTE`
`16:21.27`	`ToastTheif`	`I used it`
`16:21.29`	`ToastTheif`	`for a long time`
`16:21.38`	`ToastTheif`	`then I stopped coding pretty much =P`
`16:22.18`	`ToastTheif`	`but I use EditPlus usually`
`16:22.21`	`ToastTheif`	`nowadays`
`16:25.51`	`ScytheBlade1`	`http://linode.spengy.net/Sbo/Screenshots/WoWScrnShot_061106_235551.png <-- fear my UI`
`16:28.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207)`
`16:30.51`	`Wobin`	`ScytheBlade1: It's.... minimal`
`16:30.58`	`ToastTheif`	`NO BUTTONS?`
`16:31.00`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Wobin, indeed it is`
`16:31.00`	`zenzio`	`no action bars?`
`16:31.06`	`ScytheBlade1`	`It's amazing to work with`
`16:31.39`	`ToastTheif`	`where are the buttons?`
`16:32.04`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Basically any one that I actually use is bound to my keyboard`
`16:32.28`	`ScytheBlade1`	`And I can actually tell if my spell is in range or not now, just by looking at the screen now instead of the buttons`
`16:32.34`	`Wobin`	`Ooh, I'd hate to mistype =P`
`16:32.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`lol`
`16:32.44`	`Wobin`	`how do you figure that?`
`16:32.52`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Mistype 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 0? ;)`
`16:32.58`	`Wobin`	`the range, that is`
`16:33.04`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Visually`
`16:33.08`	`Wobin`	`wow`
`16:33.10`	`Wobin`	`Skill =)`
`16:33.10`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I've just played my mage long enough to tell`
`16:33.16`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Nah, just... lol`
`16:33.31`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Actually I do have buttons, but they only appear on mouse over`
`16:33.43`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I have all of my pots in the lower-right hand corner, but that's really about it`
`16:37.13`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-182.handshake.de)`
`16:37.27`	`ScytheBlade1`	`http://linode.spengy.net/Sbo/Screenshots/WoWScrnShot_061106_235551.png <-- it works in AV, and I came out Killing Blow leader ;)`
`16:37.48`	`ScytheBlade1`	`hehe, yeah, that's the same pic`
`16:37.49`	`ScytheBlade1`	`disregard`
`16:42.35`	`_B`	`What's that addon that reformats your combat log to make it readable?`
`16:43.22`	`Cide`	`there are a few`
`16:43.27`	`Cide`	`HitsMode and Nurfed Combat Log are two`
`16:44.02`	`_B`	`Right, but which is the one that everyone appaears to use`
`16:44.19`	`End`	`They both look very similar`
`16:44.29`	`Cide`	`yep :)`
`16:44.44`	`Cide`	`I would expect HitsMode to be more popular, as Nurfed Combat Log hasn't been around for very long`
`16:45.18`	`_B`	`Thanks`
`16:48.25`	`Cairenn`	`newest on the block: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5008-Simple_Combat_Log.html`
`16:49.11`	`Cairenn`	`seems popular enough for a mod that is still in beta ... 2k downloads`
`16:50.06`	`Elkano`	`well, if it's better implemented then the nurfed one ;)`
`16:58.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-95-7.starstream.net)`
`16:59.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`16:59.37`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`17:30.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge a-stray-cat (n=email@adsl-63-205-196-213.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net)`
`17:30.53`	`Kaelten`	`a-stray-cat: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`17:32.06`	`zenzio`	`O_o`
`17:32.18`	`ScytheBlade1`	`. . .`
`17:32.25`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1)`
`17:32.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1)`
`17:32.29`	`Kaelten`	`ScytheBlade1: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`17:32.34`	`ScytheBlade1`	`check that out`
`17:32.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Do I dare?`
`17:33.01`	`chuckg`	`Haha what the hell.`
`17:33.16`	`chuckg`	`How come he didn't tell me to turn his computer off?`
`17:33.17`	`chuckg`	`I'm hurt.`
`17:33.19`	`zenzio`	`well, either he's acquired something bad, or it sounds like bait`
`17:33.29`	`ScytheBlade1`	`No, I'd place money that he doesn't know`
`17:33.56`	`Tain`	`That was definitely an exploit in a version of mirc in the past.`
`17:34.06`	`Tain`	`I've never seen the "I use cracked software." thing though`
`17:34.07`	`ScytheBlade1`	`He's on Klient`
`17:34.14`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net)`
`17:34.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net)`
`17:34.15`	`Kaelten`	`Gryphen: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`17:34.41`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I think that someone should do it and boot him off, before he spams every person who joins`
`17:35.04`	`Tain`	`Nah at worst just kick him from the channel, maybe he doesn't have autojoin enabled.`
`17:35.08`	`zenzio`	`I don't remember that exploit... but I remember the thing about Norton disconnecting you if someone said startkeylogger or something`
`17:35.21`	`Gryphen`	`i just messaged`
`17:36.58`	`ScytheBlade1`	`He's still online`
`17:37.03`	`ScytheBlade1`	`ping came back`
`17:37.06`	`chuckg`	`It'sa trap.`
`17:40.05`	`zenzio`	`Google doesn't tell me much... but both the logs that appear seem to be on freenode`
`17:40.19`	`zenzio`	`*be from`
`17:42.15`	`Tain`	`At least I now know never to use Klient.`
`17:42.20`	`End`	`as far as I can tell, cracked versions of Klient print out that message`
`17:42.47`	`Tain`	`Anyone who is so out to prevent cracks as to annoy the piss out of everyone else on irc won't get my business.`
`17:43.10`	`ScytheBlade1`	`nope`
`17:44.00`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I know people who have IRC'd with telnet`
`17:44.06`	`End`	`eww`
`17:44.09`	`Tain`	`Evidently it's better than it used to be where other users could actually do other things to the person's system, commands to open CD trays, shutdown their PC, etc.`
`17:45.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=nickell@sandbox.xerox.com)`
`17:45.34`	`Kaelten`	`Qzot: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`17:46.16`	`Qzot`	`Um. Sure thing, Kaelten.`
`17:46.46`	`Qzot`	`Anyone else about?`
`17:46.51`	`End`	`never`
`17:46.54`	`zenzio`	`nope`
`17:46.59`	`Qzot`	`Rats.`
`17:47.02`	`ScytheBlade1`	`nope, we all died`
`17:47.03`	`End`	`Mice!`
`17:47.05`	`ScytheBlade1`	`In sync, we all died`
`17:47.08`	`End`	`Snakesss!`
`17:47.10`	`Qzot`	`I was hoping to commiserate. :D`
`17:48.05`	`Qzot`	`I posted a beta version of PlayOn PhotoOps to wowi, and came to find out someone posted a mod for the same utility about 12 hours before me. Same name, too. How ironic.`
`17:48.37`	`zenzio`	`hehe`
`17:49.10`	`Qzot`	`Theirs is a bit further along, too, altho I suspect mine's a tad more general.`
`17:49.49`	`Gryphen`	`And LevelSnap before that :p`
`17:50.01`	`Qzot`	`sigh Those things always exist.`
`17:50.11`	`Qzot`	`I'll hunt it down, tho.`
`17:50.28`	`Gryphen`	`Seems everyone posts the same ideas within days of each other all the time, it is weird`
`17:50.56`	`Qzot`	`Well, I have a guess as to this one.`
`17:51.02`	`zenzio`	`remember Bell and... that other telephone guy, Gray, was it?`
`17:51.13`	`Qzot`	`Someone posted a mod to hide the UI, snap the piccy, and restore the UI just last week.`
`17:51.28`	`Gryphen`	`Me, LevelSnap`
`17:51.48`	`Qzot`	`Lol. Someone else, too.`
`17:51.59`	`Gryphen`	`oh, the keybind?`
`17:52.09`	`Gryphen`	`Saw one by keybind too`
`17:52.11`	`Qzot`	`Doesn't automatically take a picture. Just provides a one-key binding for snapping a pic without the UI.`
`17:52.26`	`Qzot`	`So we have 3 of these auto-snappers?`
`17:52.35`	`chuckg`	`4. I just wrote one to be unique!`
`17:52.40`	`ScytheBlade1`	`5. Same!`
`17:52.42`	`Kirkburn`	`zis eees coool! http://www.devilducky.com/media/46990/`
`17:52.43`	`Qzot`	`Lol.`
`17:52.44`	`Gryphen`	`lol`
`17:53.10`	`Qzot`	`Gryphen: Can I con you into adding the functionality I want, and I'll burn mine down, then?`
`17:53.32`	`Gryphen`	`possibly..if you like mine lol`
`17:53.40`	`Qzot`	`I'll take a look.`
`17:53.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`That's pretty easy to do from the looks of it`
`17:53.52`	`ScytheBlade1`	`CloseAllWindows(); UIParent:Hide();`
`17:54.10`	`ScytheBlade1`	`CloseAllWindows(); TakeScreenshot(); UIParent:Hide();`
`17:54.32`	`Gryphen`	`i have more options added to it i havent updated on wowi yet of course`
`17:55.47`	`Qzot`	`Gryphen: PO PhotoOps is pretty generic about what events can drive it. That's not important to me, but where I was headed was to be able to detect a boss killed by the group, and it being "safe" enough to snap a picture.`
`17:57.04`	`Wobin`	`Kirkburn: I just get a short Milk and Cookies movie`
`17:57.12`	`Qzot`	`I'm assuming it's not just my PC, but nearly everyone gets a 2-3 second hiccup on Screenshot()`
`17:57.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Milk and cookies?? Should be "PES: Game Over`
`17:57.43`	`Kirkburn`	`"`
`17:57.47`	`zenzio`	`not a hiccup really... they have to read each pixel from the screen`
`17:57.49`	`zenzio`	`takes time`
`17:57.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Qzot, yeah I get a hiccup`
`17:57.57`	`ScytheBlade1`	`and then write a massive .tga`
`17:58.08`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a massive file, so it's expected :)`
`17:58.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Unless you have a computer than is made of ram :P`
`17:58.30`	`Gryphen`	`possibly, though i like more specific addons myself, would probably continue to make that a separate addon.`
`17:59.02`	`Gryphen`	`im not one for all inclusive addons trying to cover every different event, id rather have 5 addons for specific events heh`
`17:59.13`	`Gryphen`	`photoops sounds more appropriet`
`17:59.21`	`Gryphen`	`(sp) :(`
`17:59.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Paparazzi?`
`17:59.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Or is that so obvious someone's already made it?`
`18:00.01`	`Gryphen`	`appropriate!`
`18:00.17`	`Wobin`	`Magorak writes "USA Today is reporting the RIAA now claims that the issues surrounding P2P and piracy have been contained and are no longer as big an issue as they once were. From the article; 'The problem has not been eliminated,' says association CEO Mitch Bainwol. 'But we believe digital downloads have emerged into a growing, thriving business, and file-trading is flat.'"`
`18:00.21`	`Wobin`	`...`
`18:00.33`	`ScytheBlade1`	`. . . .`
`18:00.33`	`Wobin`	`PhotoFinish`
`18:00.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Yup, he sure does live on the same planet as us`
`18:00.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Wait, this is Mars, right?`
`18:00.56`	`End`	`no, venus`
`18:01.01`	`Kirkburn`	`darn`
`18:01.05`	`End`	`sorry`
`18:01.53`	`Kirkburn`	`RIAA is growing more reviled by the day`
`18:03.36`	`Kirkburn`	`I did like reading their PirateBay press release :P`
`18:07.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix_ (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`18:07.21`	`Kaelten`	`Crispix_: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`18:08.10`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Someone needs to -o+q Kaelten Kaelten`
`18:08.55`	`End`	`so much for poking`
`18:12.36`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`18:12.37`	`Kaelten`	`ckknight: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`18:14.16`	`zenzio`	`that's too easy`
`18:14.21`	`End`	`yes, it is`
`18:24.51`	`chuckg`	`ckknight: awake yet?`
`18:25.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`18:25.05`	`Kaelten`	`MoonWolf: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`18:28.46`	`Qzot`	`So...`
`18:28.59`	`Qzot`	`PlayOn PhotoOps, PhotoOps, LevelSnap, ...`
`18:29.25`	`Wobin`	`PhotoFinish`
`18:29.36`	`Qzot`	`PlayOn PhotoOps, PhotoOps, LevelSnap, PhotoFinish, ...`
`18:29.58`	`Gryphen`	`paparazzi`
`18:30.05`	`Wobin`	`I think that's already done`
`18:30.10`	`Qzot`	`Is that a real addon, or a suggestion for a name?`
`18:30.14`	`Gryphen`	`real`
`18:30.22`	`Qzot`	`PlayOn PhotoOps, PhotoOps, LevelSnap, PhotoFinish, Paparazzi, ...`
`18:30.24`	`chuckg`	`Anyone else had issues w/ Fubar not working past a resolution of 1600?`
`18:31.18`	`Wobin`	`oh hang on are we listing existing names?`
`18:32.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=Josh@jak-579.stl.gtri.gatech.edu)`
`18:32.18`	`Kaelten`	`Josh_Borke: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`18:32.26`	`Josh_Borke`	`...`
`18:32.30`	`Josh_Borke`	`Kaelten: you here?`
`18:33.00`	`ScytheBlade1`	`No, he's not`
`18:33.14`	`Josh_Borke`	`ok, cause that message seems peculiar`
`18:33.24`	`ScytheBlade1`	`he does that to everyone onjoin`
`18:33.37`	`Josh_Borke`	`poor Kaelten`
`18:33.59`	`MoonWolf`	`Dolby-wowi, are you there ?`
`18:42.26`	`ScytheBlade1`	`You know, it's really, really nice farming for Felcloth right after the server came back up`
`19:10.25`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano^wtf (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-176.handshake.de)`
`19:10.25`	`Kaelten`	`Elkano^wtf: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`19:10.53`	`Elkano^wtf`	`Oo`
`19:12.56`	`Josh_Borke`	`so, has anyone tried that?`
`19:13.11`	`zenzio`	`think someone did`
`19:13.20`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge kaso (i=usr11096@80.193.211.68)`
`19:13.20`	`Kaelten`	`kaso: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`19:13.37`	`Gryphen`	`i tried, nothing happened`
`19:14.20`	`Josh_Borke`	`well that's good`
`19:14.23`	`kaso`	`what the fuck?`
`19:15.33`	`kaso`	`^_- serioulys what the fuck?`
`19:15.44`	`kaso`	`(seriously learn 2 spell kaso)`
`19:16.04`	`End`	`(l2p)`
`19:16.41`	`Elkano^wtf`	`MoonWolf, Mendeleev is missing support for buyback buttons ^^`
`19:19.40`	`kaso`	`What's with grayhoof totally ignoing my Feature request /cry`
`19:20.26`	`kaso`	`Noone loves me`
`19:21.07`	`zenzio`	`people tend to be like that if you point out shortcomings`
`19:27.00`	`*** kick/#wowi-lounge [Kaelten!n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by Cairenn (Cairenn)`
`19:27.12`	`Gryphen`	`weee`
`19:27.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`19:27.31`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`19:27.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`owned`
`19:27.59`	`Cairenn`	`yeah, but did it fix the problem`
`19:28.09`	`Cairenn`	`someone mind leaving and coming back?`
`19:28.14`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net)`
`19:28.15`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net)`
`19:28.16`	`Kaelten`	`Gryphen: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`19:28.19`	`Cairenn`	`damnit`
`19:28.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`could mut ehim..`
`19:29.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-176.handshake.de)`
`19:29.58`	`Kaelten`	`Elkano: I use cracked software. Type "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" to make me disconnect from IRC with the message of your choice and shut off my computer.`
`19:30.11`	`Qzot`	`Could just do what he asks for. :D`
`19:30.34`	`Qzot`	`Oh. (I just read back.)`
`19:31.39`	`Qzot`	`Kaelten: You use broken software. Typing "/msg Kaelten !assclown <msg>" makes you do absolutely nothing, even thought we might wish it to shut off your computer.`
`19:31.51`	`Cairenn`	`dealing with it, give me a couple`
`19:31.55`	`Qzot`	`s/thought/though/`
`19:32.01`	`End`	`lol Qzot`
`19:33.32`	`Josh_Borke`	`lol Qzot`
`19:36.41`	`*** kick/#wowi-lounge [Kaelten!n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by Cairenn (Cairenn)`
`19:37.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`19:37.11`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`19:37.12`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+b !n=kaelten@68.63.3.*] by ChanServ`
`19:37.12`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`19:37.54`	`Cairenn`	`okay ... he's banned for now until he fixes whatever the hell is the problem on his system ... no more annoying message every time someone joins`
`19:38.00`	`End`	`woot`
`19:38.12`	`Cairenn`	`my apologies for it having gone on as long as it did`
`19:38.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`so, still haven't gotten a response from blizz about my name and i can't log in w/o changing it..`
`19:38.34`	`End`	`I had him on ignore until around when you came back :P`
`19:38.57`	`AnduinLothar`	`and 'Karl' is taken`
`19:39.00`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`19:43.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`maybe i should try lexluther`
`19:43.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`prolly trademarked too`
`19:44.00`	`End`	`lexlothar`
`19:44.12`	`End`	`AnduinLuther`
`19:44.33`	`Wobin`	`AndrewLothar =P`
`19:44.37`	`AnduinLothar`	`superpally`
`19:44.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`lol`
`19:44.56`	`Wobin`	`Omgbubble =)`
`19:45.05`	`End`	`Omgbubblehearth`
`19:45.10`	`End`	`;p`
`19:45.17`	`AnduinLothar`	`14\|\/\|7\|-\|30\|\\|3`
`19:45.39`	`End`	`lies`
`19:45.41`	`krka`	`illegal :P`
`19:45.46`	`End`	`it's totally me`
`19:45.46`	`krka`	`all of em :P`
`19:45.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`andtwostealthedrogues`
`19:46.05`	`End`	`that's only good as a guild tag`
`19:46.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`damn`
`19:46.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`too long im sure`
`19:46.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`as utherlightbringer is too long too`
`19:46.40`	`End`	`I think you should have a vaguely similar name as your original one though`
`19:46.42`	`krka`	`whoa deja vu... do girls say that to you too+`
`19:46.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`and equally as tm'd`
`19:46.44`	`chuckg`	`LotharsAnduin`
`19:47.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`"too long im sure"?`
`19:47.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`andyloozer`
`19:47.39`	`Wobin`	`Landuin`
`19:47.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`conehead`
`19:47.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`tier2`
`19:47.52`	`AnduinLothar`	`tiertwo`
`19:47.57`	`End`	`AndyLotaar`
`19:48.01`	`AnduinLothar`	`pwnface`
`19:48.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`And`
`19:48.33`	`AnduinLothar`	`pvphater`
`19:48.41`	`End`	`pvpface`
`19:49.29`	`AnduinLothar`	`wonder if i pick a bad name how long it will take them to make me change it again`
`19:49.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`and how many times will they let you change it`
`19:49.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`goldfinger`
`19:49.55`	`End`	`there was a guy on my server that kept getting reported, and he kept changed like 2 or 3 letters in his name`
`19:50.03`	`AnduinLothar`	`lol`
`19:50.05`	`End`	`he went through something like 7 or 8 names before he had to stop changing it`
`19:50.13`	`Gryphen`	`we have had a guy who had changed his to a questionable name like 8-9 times`
`19:50.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`ah ok, so i've got a while`
`19:50.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`copywritten`
`19:50.57`	`Wobin`	`WangDuinLothar`
`19:51.44`	`Wobin`	`You could always go Kharl, or Carl`
`19:51.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`chinesefarmer`
`19:52.05`	`End`	`Karlothar`
`19:52.21`	`End`	`Kanduinrlothar`
`19:52.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`think i'd get auto-banend with a name like chinesefarmer..`
`19:52.37`	`End`	`<-- silly?`
`19:52.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge grimman (i=sco@h208n1fls35o916.telia.com)`
`19:53.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`udontknowme`
`19:53.09`	`Tain`	`AnduinPersecuted`
`19:53.23`	`Wobin`	`zhongjinnongfu`
`19:53.28`	`zenzio`	`AnduinLothere`
`19:53.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`wasanduin`
`19:53.49`	`Wobin`	`AnduinWasthar`
`19:53.52`	`AnduinLothar`	`whoami`
`19:54.11`	`AnduinLothar`	`gollyzilla`
`19:55.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`pwnzorz`
`19:56.06`	`Wobin`	`I'm so going to make a char named Zhongjinnong`
`19:56.35`	`Wobin`	`It's horrible grammar, but still recognisable =P`
`19:57.26`	`zenzio`	`recognizable as what?`
`19:57.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cairen1 (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`20:00.00`	`Gryphen`	`send in the clones`
`20:01.15`	`Josh_Borke`	`no i don't think that's what it is recognizable as`
`20:01.18`	`Wobin`	`Chinese Gold Farmer`
`20:24.37`	`chuckg`	`ckknight, around?`
`20:26.50`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix__ (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`20:27.38`	`Crispix__`	`omg`
`20:27.40`	`Crispix__`	`its working`
`20:28.05`	`Crispix`	`hehehe... I can watch tv on my puter now`
`20:31.51`	`ckknight`	`chuckg, yes.`
`20:32.09`	`chuckg`	`Curious if you have any ideas of why my fubar won't expand the full width of the screen.`
`20:32.26`	`ckknight`	`drag the edge?`
`20:32.36`	`chuckg`	`Woah.`
`20:32.45`	`chuckg`	`Ok. I'll go quietly cut myself.`
`20:33.43`	`chuckg`	`Thanks.`
`20:33.58`	`ckknight`	`hehe`
`20:37.39`	`chuckg`	`That's a neat feature, has that been in for a while?`
`20:37.46`	`chuckg`	`Or is that w/ the recent stuff?`
`20:38.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240)`
`20:40.51`	`Wobin`	`grah`
`20:41.27`	`Wobin`	`How can I express a value B between A and C as a value between 0 and 1?`
`20:41.31`	`Josh_Borke`	`why are we cheering again?`
`20:41.37`	`Wobin`	`(I'm looking for a algorithm)`
`20:41.40`	`Josh_Borke`	`huh?`
`20:42.06`	`Wobin`	`Say A=25 and C=1200, B is a number between the two`
`20:42.16`	`Wobin`	`And I have to express it as a decimal between 0 and 1`
`20:42.21`	`Josh_Borke`	`oh, ok`
`20:42.28`	`Tain`	`A < B < C !`
`20:42.32`	`Wobin`	`yes`
`20:42.37`	`Josh_Borke`	`b/(c-a)?`
`20:42.42`	`Tain`	`That's my formula.`
`20:42.43`	`End`	`doh`
`20:42.49`	`End`	`Josh_Borke beat me`
`20:42.57`	`Wobin`	`I've learnt not to listen to you Tain =)`
`20:43.01`	`Wobin`	`Ta, Josh`
`20:43.06`	`Josh_Borke`	`np`
`20:44.45`	`Josh_Borke`	`later all`
`20:53.12`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`20:59.45`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`21:01.29`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Bela\|work (n=sluster@josephpartners.com)`
`21:08.07`	`MoonWolf`	`Elkano, noted.`
`21:08.29`	`Elkano`	`k :)`
`21:20.24`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (i=tardmrr@mrich25-1.lsu.edu)`
`21:22.29`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`21:25.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Aaah, Apple makes me want to scream sometimes http://www.apple.com/getamac/`
`21:25.45`	`End`	`for ice cream?`
`21:25.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=khamer@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`21:26.19`	`Kirkburn`	`No, 'bloody murder'`
`21:26.26`	`End`	`oh, well, I was close`
`21:26.35`	`End`	`ice cream, blood murder, it's all the same`
`21:26.42`	`End`	`s/blood/bloody/`
`21:26.51`	`Kirkburn`	`:P`
`21:27.30`	`Kirkburn`	`I especially am angered by the 'look Macs are better, you can run both OSX and Windows on it' ad. You'd be able to do the same with PCs if Apple let you`
`21:27.46`	`End`	`yeah`
`21:28.06`	`End`	`although, apple doesn't make money off of software like they do off of hardware`
`21:28.19`	`End`	`which is where apple puts their restrictions in`
`21:28.54`	`Kirkburn`	`It still makes the advert pretty much a lie`
`21:29.19`	`End`	`well, I wouldn't say a lie`
`21:29.21`	`Legorol`	`Good evening gents`
`21:29.25`	`Legorol`	`and ladies, ofc`
`21:29.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Misinformation, then?`
`21:29.34`	`Tain`	`Apple makes most of their money off of software.`
`21:29.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Evenin'`
`21:29.38`	`End`	`misleading maybe`
`21:29.42`	`Tain`	`Well no, they mkae most of their money from iPods.`
`21:29.46`	`Tain`	`But after that it's software.`
`21:29.52`	`Legorol`	`I had a good day today! I had a meaningful convarsion with my ISP`
`21:29.53`	`End`	`Tain: are you sure?`
`21:30.04`	`End`	`I've only ever heard otherwise`
`21:30.05`	`Legorol`	`s/convarsion/conversation/`
`21:30.14`	`Kirkburn`	`oh yes, Legorol?`
`21:30.31`	`End`	`Legorol: was this about your vista download troubles?`
`21:30.32`	`Legorol`	`yup, after numerous phone calls, some of which landed in call centers in India, i have finally gotten through to a person who knows what an RFC is`
`21:30.35`	`Legorol`	`End: yep`
`21:30.38`	`Kirkburn`	`(oh, and the final ad of the three ... where the PC is shown as only good for spreadsheets. GRRRRRRRRR.)`
`21:30.39`	`Tain`	`They make more money on hardware than PC manufacturers since they don't have to compete.`
`21:31.00`	`Ktron`	`heh, Kirkburn, I think that's my favorite statement I've seen yet that I could use on Mac-lovers`
`21:31.04`	`End`	`I think the PC is only good for games ;p`
`21:31.06`	`Legorol`	`i finally climbed high enough on the tech support chain, and the guy left me an email addy and name i can contact him in the future`
`21:31.07`	`MoonWolf`	`Legorol, wow, get me his extension.`
`21:31.08`	`Legorol`	`yay for that!`
`21:31.10`	`Ktron`	`s/Mac-lovers/Mac Radicals/`
`21:31.15`	`End`	`PC as in Windows PC`
`21:31.18`	`Kirkburn`	`:P`
`21:31.35`	`Legorol`	`he was actually interested in the packet sniffs i made, and wanted me to email them to him`
`21:31.40`	`Legorol`	`now that's service from an ISP`
`21:31.45`	`Legorol`	`definitely made my day`
`21:31.47`	`End`	`cool`
`21:31.48`	`Kirkburn`	`oooh, cool`
`21:32.07`	`Legorol`	`passed the details on to their server support team etc.`
`21:32.08`	`MoonWolf`	`teir administration ?`
`21:32.43`	`Legorol`	`btw, i have since come across numerous reports of NTL users not being able to download vista, with same symptoms as me`
`21:33.14`	`Legorol`	`in the process i tumbled onto a nice forum, where users of NTL can discuss issues`
`21:33.25`	`Legorol`	`if anyone's on NTL in the UK, have a look at www.cableforum.co.uk`
`21:33.34`	`Legorol`	`or any other cable operator for that matter, but mostly NTL`
`21:33.48`	`Legorol`	`it's not just for tech support issues, it's a good forum in general`
`21:34.01`	`Kirkburn`	`For those on cable. In the UK. =)`
`21:34.06`	`Legorol`	`yup :)`
`21:34.19`	`Kirkburn`	`I think that's just you :P`
`21:34.21`	`Legorol`	`but the forum admins have connections high up the foodchain within major ISPs, apparently`
`21:34.27`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn: could be`
`21:34.31`	`Ktron`	`NTL? just curiosu`
`21:34.32`	`Legorol`	`but there were a few people here who were interested`
`21:34.40`	`Legorol`	`NTL is the 2nd largest telco in the UK`
`21:34.43`	`Legorol`	`the 1st being BT`
`21:34.49`	`Ktron`	`I'm bittorrenting Vista x86 and 64 on to my computer right now`
`21:34.57`	`Kirkburn`	`National Tel (telegraphy or something) Laboratories, irrc`
`21:35.01`	`Kirkburn`	`*iirc`
`21:35.14`	`End`	`I've heard of BT`
`21:35.36`	`Legorol`	`anyways it's all good, i passed the details along, so my part is done`
`21:35.38`	`End`	`to be honest, I hadn't heard of NTL before though`
`21:35.46`	`Kirkburn`	`National Transcommunications Limited, in fact`
`21:35.49`	`Legorol`	`i get frustrated when i analyze a problem and can't get the right person's attention ;-)`
`21:35.59`	`Legorol`	`End: not surprised`
`21:36.05`	`Legorol`	`i wouldn't expect anyone outside of UK to have heard of them`
`21:36.26`	`Kirkburn`	`NTL has only become well-known publicly more recently with cable TV/net`
`21:36.32`	`Legorol`	`yeah`
`21:36.41`	`Legorol`	`they went through a bunch of mergers actually`
`21:36.47`	`Legorol`	`gobbling up smaller, local cable operators`
`21:36.55`	`Legorol`	`such as Cable & Wireless, Telewest etc.`
`21:36.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Indeedy`
`21:37.02`	`Legorol`	`these are probably meaningless to you guys`
`21:37.12`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe, we've got the knowledge!`
`21:37.15`	`Legorol`	`hehe`
`21:37.19`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn, what connection do you have?`
`21:38.08`	`Kirkburn`	`In Bristol I was with telewest`
`21:38.33`	`Legorol`	`tracert to you indicates you are in Italy now..`
`21:39.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Indeed I am, but if I told you I was on 'Wind' I don't think that was really what you wanted to hear :P`
`21:39.00`	`Legorol`	`is it warm down there? :)`
`21:39.10`	`Legorol`	`hehe`
`21:39.30`	`Kirkburn`	`My student house last year (in Bristol) was being refitted just before I moved in, so me and my housemates got them to install a wired network. Was great!`
`21:39.45`	`Legorol`	`nice`
`21:39.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, lovely and warm. I'd really like to be back home with my girl tho :(`
`21:39.51`	`Legorol`	`:/`
`21:40.21`	`Legorol`	`i had some "nice" experiences with NTL here when i was having my broadband set up`
`21:40.47`	`Kirkburn`	`(This year in Italy was not how I expected it to be, I really can't wait to finish and get home)`
`21:40.48`	`Legorol`	`the most amusing, in a painful kind of way, was that the first engineer that visited the block of flats i am in, proclaimed that this building doesn't have NTL cable leading to it`
`21:40.52`	`Legorol`	`so i can't get any of their services`
`21:40.54`	`Kirkburn`	`lol`
`21:41.00`	`Legorol`	`which was confirmed by the landlord on the phone`
`21:41.07`	`Legorol`	`to the landlord's knowledge, they never got NTL cable`
`21:41.19`	`Legorol`	`lo and behold, few days later i found the termination point in the building in the basement`
`21:41.27`	`Kirkburn`	`sigh`
`21:41.41`	`Legorol`	`indeed`
`21:41.51`	`Legorol`	`the 2nd engineer came, saw the same as the 1st guy, and wanted to go home`
`21:41.56`	`Legorol`	`so i dragged him down to the basement`
`21:42.43`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@151.56.219.207)`
`21:42.45`	`Legorol`	`wb`
`21:42.52`	`Kirkburn1`	`Uh, er, I crashed X-chat :)`
`21:42.57`	`Legorol`	`hehe`
`21:43.02`	`Kirkburn1`	`Sorry, I missed the last thing you said`
`21:43.05`	`Legorol`	`i was just saying (in case you are still not bored):`
`21:43.09`	`Legorol`	`the 2nd engineer came, saw the same as the 1st guy, and wanted to go home`
`21:43.14`	`Legorol`	`so i dragged him down to the basement`
`21:43.22`	`Legorol`	`he was actually surprised to find their box there`
`21:43.32`	`Legorol`	`but then shrugged and connected me up`
`21:43.33`	`Kirkburn1`	`heh`
`21:43.47`	`Kirkburn1`	`Good thing you looked!`
`21:43.53`	`Legorol`	`hehe, actually it's thanks to BT`
`21:44.09`	`Legorol`	`you see, when NTL told me i can't have their service, i sighed and ordered a phone line+ADSL from BT`
`21:44.25`	`Legorol`	`it was the BT engineer, which was setting up my phoneline, that pointed out NTL's box in the basement`
`21:44.56`	`Legorol`	`this story just cracks me up`
`21:45.01`	`Legorol`	`anyway, it's all good in the end`
`21:45.21`	`Legorol`	`i told my landlord that, in fact, his building does have NTL services available (cable TV, broadband etc.)`
`21:45.30`	`Legorol`	`and i also got nice compensation from NTL for their stupidity`
`21:45.38`	`Legorol`	`couple of months free`
`21:45.42`	`Kirkburn1`	`cool`
`21:46.07`	`Kirkburn1`	`Here, I had to pay 100 euros (I crashed X-chat when I tried to put the symbol in) just to get my pre-existing telephone line reactivated, not to actually start using it or anything. :/`
`21:46.18`	`Legorol`	`ouch`
`21:46.28`	`Kirkburn1`	`Wait, sorry, 150 euros`
`21:46.36`	`Legorol`	`speaking of reactivation....`
`21:46.39`	`Legorol`	`BT was very mean`
`21:46.46`	`Legorol`	`they noticed that yes, my flat has an existing BT line`
`21:46.52`	`Legorol`	`but no, it hasn't been used in a while`
`21:47.04`	`Legorol`	`so they can't just try to switch it on, they must send out an engineer to have a look`
`21:47.08`	`Legorol`	`i begged them to try anyway`
`21:47.15`	`Kirkburn`	`crazy`
`21:47.17`	`Legorol`	`but they refused`
`21:47.27`	`Legorol`	`no, their software has now flagged my line, they can't do anything. period.`
`21:47.36`	`Legorol`	`even though there was nothing known to be wrong about it`
`21:48.01`	`Legorol`	`BT engineer came, saw the line, it was all OK, pointed out the NTL box, went home`
`21:48.25`	`Legorol`	`oh well`
`21:48.38`	`Legorol`	`don't you just love big companies`
`21:48.42`	`Legorol`	`such as Blizzard :)`
`21:48.47`	`Kirkburn`	`:P`
`21:49.03`	`Legorol`	`their phone-based tech support isn't much better`
`21:49.11`	`Legorol`	`although their forum based techies are quite good`
`21:49.14`	`Legorol`	`but there aren't enoguh of them`
`21:49.24`	`Legorol`	`on the US tech support forum i saw a great post once,`
`21:49.32`	`Legorol`	`it was made by cprompt`
`21:49.40`	`krka`	`damn it's hot`
`21:49.47`	`krka`	`won't get much sleep :/`
`21:49.55`	`Legorol`	`he actually took a #132 crash report from a player, and took it apart to the level of disassembling it, and explaining what the crash report showed`
`21:50.05`	`Legorol`	`and why it's a fault with the player's CPU that's causing the crash`
`21:50.16`	`Legorol`	`that was uber-cool, he even included assembler statements in his post`
`21:50.24`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`21:50.37`	`Legorol`	`i'm sure it's scrolled off now, i might be able to find it on cardplace`
`21:50.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, they're always hiring, so it shoudl certainly get better and better`
`21:50.56`	`Kirkburn`	`The CS forum is an amazing example of it`
`21:52.14`	`Legorol`	`if i wasn't attached to other things, i'd have so taken a job in tech support at blizz`
`21:52.21`	`Legorol`	`hoping i'd move up the foodchain soon enough,`
`21:52.27`	`krka`	`tech support is crap`
`21:52.32`	`Legorol`	`so i get to deal with interesting problems and not "omg i can't install/download"`
`21:52.44`	`Legorol`	`if you say so, krka`
`21:52.53`	`krka`	`i browse through the support for our game`
`21:52.57`	`krka`	`it's sad`
`21:53.05`	`krka`	`i feel sorry for the support team`
`21:53.06`	`Legorol`	`mostly, but there are some people`
`21:53.10`	`Legorol`	`true`
`21:53.20`	`Legorol`	`that's why you do what all big companies do:`
`21:53.23`	`Legorol`	`you have several layers`
`21:53.31`	`Legorol`	`and hopefully the first layer knows when to pass the problem on to the next`
`21:53.33`	`Tain`	`Anyone good at tech support won't be in tech support long.`
`21:53.50`	`Legorol`	`that's the sad thing`
`21:53.54`	`Kirkburn`	`They're much more useful elsewhere`
`21:54.01`	`Legorol`	`that's why there is mostly no good tech support :(`
`21:54.04`	`Legorol`	`but that's not my biggest gripe`
`21:54.27`	`Legorol`	`my biggest gripe is when I, the end-user diagnoses something at a technical level, (being more knowledgable then your average surfer),`
`21:54.34`	`Legorol`	`there is often no way to get that info across to the right person`
`21:54.51`	`Legorol`	`ah here we go, i found my archive of that post`
`21:54.56`	`Legorol`	`it was so amazing i saved a copy`
`21:55.19`	`krka`	`heh`
`21:55.32`	`Legorol`	`http://wow.pastebin.com/707469`
`21:55.43`	`Legorol`	`that was made by a blue tech support representative called cprompt`
`21:55.49`	`Legorol`	`a long time ago on the US tech support forum`
`21:55.56`	`Legorol`	`in response to someone posting their #132 crash log`
`21:56.03`	`Legorol`	`i was seriously impressed`
`21:57.00`	`krka`	`meh, you get impressed way too easily, imo :P`
`21:57.05`	`Legorol`	`come on!`
`21:57.16`	`Legorol`	`when do you see that level of technical knowledge EVER on the tech support forums?`
`21:57.25`	`Legorol`	`i am not saying the support people are stupid`
`21:57.40`	`Legorol`	`i am just saying i've never seen them treat their players as intelligent, like in that post`
`21:57.45`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix_ (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`21:57.57`	`krka`	`yeah, cool post :)`
`21:58.03`	`Legorol`	`ok so i am easily impressed, so sue me :)`
`21:58.19`	`krka`	`indication that the poster was overqualified`
`21:58.30`	`Legorol`	`yeah :/`
`21:58.33`	`Legorol`	`but, on the other hand`
`21:58.47`	`Legorol`	`what if someone likes problem analysis and troubleshooting better than creative work, like design or coding?`
`21:58.50`	`Legorol`	`like me :)`
`21:59.08`	`krka`	`testing is a whole career in itself`
`21:59.09`	`Legorol`	`it would do any tech support team good to have someone like that`
`21:59.19`	`Legorol`	`yes testing, in part`
`21:59.26`	`krka`	`though maybe that wasn't quite what you were going for`
`21:59.30`	`Legorol`	`but also having analysis skills so you make an intelligent report`
`21:59.38`	`Legorol`	`a tester can say:`
`21:59.40`	`Legorol`	`this is broken`
`21:59.47`	`Legorol`	`someone who is also familiar with the code can test, then say:`
`21:59.54`	`Legorol`	`this is broken, and is caused by a bug in such and such a place`
`22:00.20`	`Legorol`	`krka, why do you think I pestered you with AT bugs :)`
`22:00.37`	`krka`	`generally, the coders also do the fixing, ime`
`22:00.56`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`22:00.59`	`krka`	`bugs in AT? hah, surely you jest`
`22:01.02`	`krka`	`no such thing`
`22:01.03`	`Legorol`	`but they don't do support`
`22:01.06`	`Legorol`	`or rather`
`22:01.16`	`Legorol`	`there is a wide distance between an end-user with a problem,`
`22:01.19`	`Legorol`	`and a coder with the ability to fix`
`22:01.26`	`Legorol`	`it's that gap that is too large, imo`
`22:01.37`	`Legorol`	`you need a member of the coder team on the tech support team and vice versa`
`22:01.45`	`Legorol`	`that's my opinion anyway`
`22:02.34`	`krka`	`well, we have solved it by being a small company where the tech support knows the coders, and also having some of the tech support _being_ coders (just not related to the project)`
`22:02.44`	`krka`	`works nicely`
`22:03.28`	`Legorol`	`ok, so you have tech support that is sufficiently qualified`
`22:03.28`	`Legorol`	`in your own definition those tech support people would be overqualified`
`22:03.28`	`Legorol`	`so you are giving me an example of a good scenario, one that i'd hope for`
`22:03.43`	`krka`	`yes, definitely overqualified`
`22:03.50`	`Legorol`	`obviously this model doesn't work for large companies`
`22:03.55`	`krka`	`yeah`
`22:04.05`	`Legorol`	`but even large companies should somehow train their first support layer to be able to recognize when`
`22:04.21`	`Legorol`	`an end user is displaying above average understanding of the issues at hand`
`22:04.49`	`krka`	`i have atleast now learned that you really should take the effort to make your product as error-correcting as possible. bugs occur and it really sucks when they become unfixable`
`22:05.14`	`Legorol`	`aha`
`22:05.48`	`krka`	`we could have reduced the support mails by a huge amount if we solved some of the bugs :P`
`22:05.56`	`Tain`	`The problem you run into is an over-qualified first level tech support person isn't going to want to do that job for very long.`
`22:06.05`	`Legorol`	`yeah`
`22:06.09`	`Legorol`	`so you need a halfway solution`
`22:06.14`	`Legorol`	`not necessarily a qualified first level`
`22:06.21`	`Tain`	`First level support anywhere has a huge turnover ratio.`
`22:06.23`	`Legorol`	`but at least someone who recognizes when they are out of their reach`
`22:06.27`	`krka`	`basically, the qualified person only wants one instance per problem`
`22:06.44`	`Legorol`	`i understand what you mean, qualified person doesn't want to copy/paste replies`
`22:06.45`	`krka`	`then he solves it once and sends the solution back to the st00pids for them to copy paste into replies`
`22:06.56`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`22:07.12`	`Legorol`	`the thing i get annoyed with though is when the first level support treats me as the stoopid, and gives me copy/paste reply`
`22:07.18`	`krka`	`that's kinda what i did today... except i don't consider our tech support st00pids :P`
`22:07.24`	`Legorol`	`and when i specifically ask for an avenue to get my problem further, they don't give an avenue`
`22:07.58`	`Legorol`	`not to mention call centers in India`
`22:08.05`	`Legorol`	`don't get me wrong, i have no problems with call centers being there`
`22:08.08`	`wereHamster`	`Legorol, just explain them that they can't understand the problem and that they should send your description to someone who does.. worked for me`
`22:08.11`	`Legorol`	`or the staff there`
`22:08.19`	`Legorol`	`the problem is when my call lands in India, the person realises he can't help me,`
`22:08.22`	`krka`	`you'd be suprised at how many people _know_ they're right and need to speak with someone important, when in fact they're wrong and have asked the same thing as a thousand others`
`22:08.32`	`Legorol`	`and when i ask him to connect to their tier 2 support, he can't because he can't transfer a call back to the UK`
`22:09.01`	`Legorol`	`krka: i understand :(`
`22:09.10`	`Legorol`	`unfortunatley, part of the job of the first layer is to screen those`
`22:09.15`	`krka`	`yeah`
`22:09.20`	`Legorol`	`more often than not, i get screened by this process`
`22:09.27`	`Legorol`	`even though i am right and everyone else is wrong, ha!`
`22:09.29`	`Legorol`	`take that, n00bs`
`22:10.01`	`Legorol`	`wereHamster: if they are willing`
`22:10.15`	`Legorol`	`but if insteaed they tell you that yes the do understand the problem, and i should reboot my computer in safe mode to fix it`
`22:10.19`	`Legorol`	`that's when i put the phone down`
`22:10.39`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix__ (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`22:10.43`	`krka`	`all my isp tech support contacts have been to say "your dns broke, please fix it" or something like that, but the tech support still always insists on giving me instructions to fix`
`22:10.59`	`krka`	`annoying, when i know i am right and the problem is on their side :P`
`22:11.06`	`Legorol`	`exactly`
`22:11.08`	`MoonWolf`	`krka, basics steps`
`22:11.09`	`Legorol`	`so how do you handle it?`
`22:11.11`	`MoonWolf`	`yust follow along`
`22:11.14`	`Legorol`	`what do you say on the phone?`
`22:11.17`	`Tain`	`It's a delicate line to walk in order to handle the first level support people the right way to get handed on to the next level without being branded a "problem customer"`
`22:11.18`	`MoonWolf`	`the guy at the phone will be happy for it.`
`22:11.24`	`MoonWolf`	`if they dont, they get in trouble.`
`22:11.30`	`krka`	`i just scream at the top of my lungs for as long as possible`
`22:11.34`	`Legorol`	`Tain: do tell what's the trick`
`22:11.38`	`Legorol`	`lol krka`
`22:11.44`	`Legorol`	`i never scream, at least`
`22:12.05`	`MoonWolf`	`You tell them that you are pissed of and they dont get payed enough to listen to you shouting to them.`
`22:12.14`	`Legorol`	`lol`
`22:12.51`	`Tain`	`Nah just gotta be nice even though you know they're not going to be able to help you.`
`22:13.00`	`Legorol`	`yeah i do that.. but then.. nothing`
`22:13.04`	`Legorol`	`that doesn't get me to the next level`
`22:13.10`	`Legorol`	`i am always very nice`
`22:13.18`	`Legorol`	`each time i call, i always explain the problem from scratch`
`22:13.37`	`Legorol`	`because each time, it's a different service agent (which is also annoying as hell, not being able to speak again to a person you just spent half an hour explaining the problem to)`
`22:13.51`	`krka`	`half an hour to explain? O_o`
`22:14.03`	`MoonWolf`	`if they have a decent system they should be able to get up notes on those conversations.`
`22:14.10`	`MoonWolf`	`see what happen in general lines.`
`22:14.11`	`krka`	`do you go over all the basics? semi-conductors, binary logic, turing machines... ?`
`22:14.11`	`Legorol`	`well i have to give the complete history of all conversations i had in this matter with them`
`22:14.17`	`Legorol`	`because they don't seem to have records`
`22:14.19`	`Legorol`	`that takes half an hour`
`22:14.24`	`Tain`	`There's always a system to keep notes, it's the people answering who don't usually use it.`
`22:14.36`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge duke\|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`22:14.37`	`Legorol`	`ok, example from today:`
`22:14.44`	`krka`	`our support system is thunderbird with threaded mails :)`
`22:14.47`	`Legorol`	`yesterday, i placed a call that landed in a UK-based tech support center.`
`22:14.49`	`Legorol`	`the guy made notes.`
`22:14.53`	`Legorol`	`today, my call was routed to India`
`22:15.04`	`Legorol`	`the Indian call center didn't have copies of the notes made by the guy in the UK`
`22:15.06`	`Legorol`	`end of story`
`22:15.19`	`MoonWolf`	`great`
`22:15.25`	`Legorol`	`I really, really wish i didn't have to use phone for these issues`
`22:15.28`	`Legorol`	`but email is even worse`
`22:15.37`	`Legorol`	`because it's easier to dismiss people with a copy/paste reply`
`22:15.37`	`Tain`	`Of course speaking of which here's a fun example I saw just today. A guy recorded the conversation when he tried to cancel his AOL account.`
`22:15.39`	`Tain`	`http://www.duggmirror.com/technology/MP3_Recording:_Trying_to_cancel_AOL/`
`22:16.34`	`MoonWolf`	`i have a small idea what its like to be on the other end of that line`
`22:16.40`	`MoonWolf`	`yust keep polite and work along.`
`22:16.51`	`MoonWolf`	`untill they start to get in your way.`
`22:17.19`	`Legorol`	`listening now, Tain`
`22:17.34`	`MoonWolf`	`and even then, stay polite and ask for either a supervisor and a higher teir tech`
`22:17.56`	`MoonWolf`	`if they cant, yust ask to be transefered to somebody who can help cancell the account.`
`22:21.02`	`SinPi`	`hmmm. Minimap:SetIconTexture("file") supposedly changes SOMETHING on the minimap, and fails when I specify a non-existent file, but fails to do anything visible... And it's not on wowwiki, either... The heck?`
`22:21.09`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`22:21.18`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`22:21.45`	`krka`	`can someone send me the mp3?`
`22:21.49`	`krka`	`doesn't work for me`
`22:21.59`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg__ (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`22:22.10`	`Legorol`	`krka: can you accept DCC?`
`22:22.27`	`krka`	`probably`
`22:22.35`	`krka`	`thanks`
`22:22.50`	`Legorol`	`it's not actually that funny`
`22:26.46`	`krka`	`kinda sad`
`22:26.49`	`Legorol`	`yup`
`22:27.08`	`Legorol`	`i think you can see how much crap the poor techie guy must be getting himself`
`22:27.16`	`Legorol`	`it must've been the end of a long day`
`22:27.37`	`Legorol`	`btw, i don't talk to tech people like this, i know it doesn't get me anywhere to annoy them`
`22:28.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=f844479f@68.63.3.183)`
`22:28.08`	`Legorol`	`however, tbh, i am not sure what i'd have done if i keep saying cancel the account and they don't :)`
`22:28.29`	`krka`	`yeah, that was annoying`
`22:28.56`	`krka`	`he probably get some provision for each account that wasn't closed`
`22:29.07`	`Legorol`	`maybe`
`22:29.14`	`Legorol`	`but he just sounded more tired than anything`
`22:29.25`	`Legorol`	`the best part is how he has to read out that paragraph in order to cancel`
`22:29.33`	`Legorol`	`they have procedures, he has to follow it, or he gets fired`
`22:29.44`	`Legorol`	`on 2nd thought, no i don't want to do tier 1 tech support :)`
`22:30.21`	`krka`	`yeah, probably`
`22:30.28`	`Legorol`	`funny thing is: fun thing about Cosmos is that i can go to our forums, and pick and choose interesting problems users report`
`22:30.31`	`Legorol`	`and try to find the bug`
`22:30.43`	`Legorol`	`and i let regular forum goers copy/paste replies to usual stuff :)`
`22:31.32`	`Legorol`	`good thing that i don't get paid for this so i can ignore stuff :D`
`22:31.43`	`Legorol`	`evil as it may sound`
`22:32.12`	`krka`	`yeah, actually getting paid and having responsibility really drains the fun out of stuff`
`22:32.31`	`Legorol`	`MoonWolf: do you have any good links to fun recordings of tech support phone calls?`
`22:32.48`	`Legorol`	`my favourite is the mythical story of the wordperfect tech support guy`
`22:32.49`	`MoonWolf`	`www.techsuportcomedy.com`
`22:32.53`	`Legorol`	`you guys must've heard that one`
`22:32.54`	`MoonWolf`	`there is a public section there`
`22:33.06`	`krka`	`http://rinkworks.com/stupid/`
`22:33.21`	`Legorol`	`it's the one where user phones up wordperfect tech support, complaining his screen is blank`
`22:33.24`	`Legorol`	`etc. etc.`
`22:33.36`	`Legorol`	`if you guys don't know it, it's really funny, so i can type it in`
`22:33.40`	`krka`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:33.41`	`krka`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:33.50`	`Legorol`	`lol`
`22:34.21`	`Legorol`	`MoonWolf: link dead`
`22:34.36`	`MoonWolf`	`Wait a sec`
`22:34.37`	`MoonWolf`	`bg`
`22:34.57`	`MoonWolf`	`http://www.techcomedy.com/calls/calls.htm`
`22:36.03`	`krka`	`http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_stuptech.shtml`
`22:41.34`	`Legorol`	`i think i'll be sitting here all night reading these :D`
`22:41.55`	`krka`	`depressing stuff`
`22:42.27`	`wereHamster`	`.. how does this look like for you.. video-quality-wise.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3206070624240391445 ?`
`22:43.29`	`Legorol`	`it's not Blackfathom Deep, it's Blackfathom Depths`
`22:43.41`	`Legorol`	`apart from that, looks like standard Fraps quality`
`22:43.57`	`Legorol`	`texts not readable, action clearly visible`
`22:44.00`	`Legorol`	`like any other video`
`22:44.03`	`Legorol`	`nice UI :)`
`22:44.37`	`Legorol`	`what are the three yellow bars in the middle of the screen?`
`22:44.49`	`Legorol`	`oh oooops, the BFD video is a different one, not yours :) sorry`
`22:44.52`	`wereHamster`	`I don't use fraps ;) .. I'm using my own, much better, software`
`22:45.28`	`Legorol`	`ok`
`22:45.33`	`Legorol`	`it looks fine to me`
`22:45.36`	`wereHamster`	`the three bars is player, target and targettarget`
`22:45.39`	`Legorol`	`i see, you have player Hp, target, targettarget`
`22:45.42`	`Legorol`	`damn, beat me to it :)`
`22:46.16`	`Gryphen`	`says that in desc`
`22:46.17`	`Gryphen`	`lol`
`22:46.25`	`wereHamster`	`I could capture fullscreen.. this is scaled down to half.. but the raw files are much bigger than..`
`22:46.56`	`wereHamster`	`it produces 50MB/s when capturing fullscreen`
`22:52.40`	`wereHamster`	`..and fullscreen videos probably are too big for me to uploads through a 265kbit/s ADSL line..`
`22:53.06`	`wereHamster`	`I'll try to make some more now that I have this wonderful software ;) ..`
`22:53.24`	`wereHamster`	`.. time to go to bed.. night all`
`22:53.25`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`23:04.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Damn, too late. Was gonna say how nice it was`
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`23:15.36`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
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`23:31.32`	`Cairenn`	`cladhaire: you there by chance?`
`23:32.48`	`Cairenn`	`cladhaire: I never got your email last night, it didn't come through at all`
`23:35.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`23:40.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri\|home (i=andrew@202.180.72.24)`
`23:45.35`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207)`
`23:45.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Allo, allo. Can I ask a quick favour from someone with IE6?`
`23:46.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Can somone check that I've got transparency working on the logos here ... http://pribul.georgepribul.eu/`
`23:47.18`	`kaso`	`nope`
`23:47.22`	`End`	`eww`
`23:47.29`	`End`	`it looks un-pretty`
`23:47.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Really??`
`23:47.44`	`End`	`I'll take a screenshot`
`23:47.46`	`kaso`	`ie hates png transpencies`
`23:48.11`	`Kirkburn`	`I know kaso, which is why that page should be a workaround`
`23:48.32`	`kaso`	`it works in that the its transpant, but it doesnt gradent`
`23:49.07`	`Kirkburn`	`:/`
`23:50.45`	`End`	`/img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foo0sm.png`
`23:50.55`	`End`	`whoops`
`23:51.04`	`End`	`there is a http:/ on the beginning of that`
`23:51.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=ScytheBl@c-67-186-244-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`23:52.48`	`Kirkburn`	`eewwww`
`23:53.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, that's not right!`
`23:53.16`	`kaso`	`i say leave it, who cares :> its theyre fault for not using a better browser`
`23:53.22`	`kaso`	`their`
`23:54.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Not for someone in a workplace, though`
`23:54.54`	`kaso`	`nesasarry victims in the war against MSIE!`
`23:55.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Heh. I should warn you, I use IE7`
`23:55.28`	`kaso`	`then you too will be on the list come judgement day!`
`23:55.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Fanboi :P`
`23:56.23`	`Kirkburn`	`I'll have to look at the workaround again, see if I did something wrong. (except, since I don't have IE6, that will be a little hard)`
`23:56.51`	`kaso`	`guess you cant have em both side by side.`
`23:57.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Nope, IE7 doesn't allow side-by-side installs yet`
`23:58.01`	`Kirkburn`	`I think it'll probably come later ... problem is that IE6 is too deeply embedded atm`
`23:59.20`	`kaso`	`Can i ask why bother with transparencies?`
`23:59.36`	`Kirkburn`	`The background has lines :)`

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