| 00:00.12 | Miravlix | Casual is really just a way to say can play limited number of hours in a row |
| 00:00.21 | zenzio | yeah, I guess |
| 00:00.33 | Miravlix | The armor upgrades quest can be done on limited hours |
| 00:00.41 | Miravlix | You can't do raids on limited |
| 00:00.49 | Miravlix | You have to do it isn 4-8+ hours |
| 00:01.01 | Cide | depends... |
| 00:01.19 | Cide | guilds that are far into AQ can do molten core and blackwing lair in less than 3 hours |
| 00:01.28 | zenzio | still think the 0.5 quests should be easier and cheaper though... just make long quest lines for every item instead |
| 00:01.59 | Cide | 'casuals' wanted challenging content for 1-5 man |
| 00:02.17 | Cide | not everyone wanted that I guess, but I think blizzard did a pretty good job at meeting those demands |
| 00:03.51 | Kirkburn | zenzio, the quests lines are already incredibly long |
| 00:04.06 | zenzio | I know |
| 00:04.30 | Kirkburn | I still need to do a 45 min Baron myself |
| 00:04.40 | Miravlix | Less than 3 hours... |
| 00:04.48 | zenzio | all I was saying was that I'd rather have a quest-chain along the length of the "The Archivist" thing for every single armor piece than how they are now |
| 00:04.51 | Cide | Miravlix: yes |
| 00:05.01 | Cide | but that doesn't include 'learning' it |
| 00:05.06 | Miravlix | Damn 3 hours s a freaking long time, where your infant just have to fend for itself or whatever |
| 00:05.30 | Cide | I don't see 3 hours as a long gaming session myself, but I know not everyone agrees with me :) |
| 00:05.45 | Miravlix | 1 hour is a long time for a casual |
| 00:05.54 | Kirkburn | oooh, I don't think so |
| 00:06.03 | Kirkburn | 2 hours, I'd say |
| 00:06.19 | Miravlix | Uninterupted gaming sessions requires no life and pimpels! |
| 00:06.22 | Kirkburn | You can do anything in one hour in WoW |
| 00:06.30 | Kirkburn | s/can/can't/ |
| 00:06.36 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 00:06.41 | Miravlix | You can do stuff in 10 minutes in WoW |
| 00:06.50 | Kirkburn | Not much, not if you want to quest much |
| 00:07.05 | Miravlix | 10 minutes here 10 minutes there |
| 00:07.20 | Miravlix | It works fine, unless your an addict that can't let go. :) |
| 00:07.20 | Kirkburn | Which is already 20 mins longer than your '10mins' :) |
| 00:07.30 | Miravlix | It's SESSIONS |
| 00:07.36 | Kirkburn | Ah, I see now |
| 00:07.50 | Miravlix | Casuals play WoW for years too |
| 00:07.55 | Kirkburn | You need 10 mins to get to a quest location, I'd say |
| 00:07.59 | JoshBorke | yay for login serve down :-( |
| 00:08.01 | Miravlix | They don't play WoW in real time though |
| 00:08.16 | Miravlix | Then log and come back tomorrow |
| 00:08.21 | Kirkburn | Either, we'd need to find a casual player to actually know for certain :P |
| 00:08.37 | Miravlix | 10 mins is short, 30 mins though is a extended gaming session |
| 00:08.46 | Kirkburn | (ignore the 'either', I forgot what I originally was typing :) |
| 00:09.41 | Kirkburn | If you define casual by a play length of 30mins, you've cut out pretty much all of the WoW population I've ever met :) |
| 00:10.03 | zenzio | what have I unleashed :-x |
| 00:10.15 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 00:10.26 | Miravlix | It's UNHEALTHY to play for more than 30 mins |
| 00:10.28 | JoshBorke | i'd consider myself casual |
| 00:10.31 | Kirkburn | What's the archivist quest line like? |
| 00:10.40 | Miravlix | It's sickning to play for more than an hour |
| 00:10.55 | JoshBorke | why is it sickening? |
| 00:11.04 | Kirkburn | That's a very odd thing to say ... |
| 00:11.23 | Miravlix | We have work laws here, you aren't allowed to work with a computer for an hour here |
| 00:11.27 | Kirkburn | Playing computer games is in no way unhealthy, unless you never do exercise |
| 00:11.28 | Miravlix | It's facts |
| 00:11.39 | Kirkburn | (or have a very bad screen) |
| 00:11.44 | Miravlix | It is unhealthy and not allowed in the workplace |
| 00:12.02 | Miravlix | It's soo bad that they legislate for it here and fine for it |
| 00:12.09 | Kirkburn | Where? |
| 00:12.39 | Kirkburn | (of course playing games isn't allowed in the work place! :/ |
| 00:12.50 | Miravlix | European culture you wont understand, we protect the bottom from the top, not the US way of protecting the top from the bottom |
| 00:13.08 | Cairenn | errr |
| 00:13.12 | Kirkburn | Even though I'm english and live in Italy and have been all over europe? :) |
| 00:13.27 | Miravlix | So we have lots of things where empliees has rules to follow to not exploit empliees |
| 00:13.45 | Cairenn | Miravlix: how about answering the question? where? |
| 00:13.46 | Tem | Anyone having trouble logging in atm? |
| 00:13.56 | Cairenn | specifically |
| 00:14.02 | Miravlix | EU |
| 00:14.07 | Cairenn | ... |
| 00:14.10 | Miravlix | European Union |
| 00:14.17 | Cairenn | every single country in the EU? |
| 00:14.21 | Miravlix | isn't that whats it's called in english? |
| 00:14.35 | JoshBorke | ( Tem ): me :-( |
| 00:14.36 | Kirkburn | Oh I know, you can't sit someone in front of a computer all day, because it can be very bad for your eyes. However, as the guidelines always say, do something else for at least 10 mins out of every hour and you shouldn't have a problem. |
| 00:14.45 | Miravlix | Worker protection is an important part of the EU |
| 00:14.49 | Cide | how about this |
| 00:14.53 | Cide | Miravlix: in which country do you live in? |
| 00:15.08 | Miravlix | Whatever all countries has perfect identical laws on the matter, I don't know. |
| 00:15.11 | Cairenn | Miravlix: what country are you talking about? ONE SPECIFIC country |
| 00:15.27 | Miravlix | Hmm? |
| 00:15.40 | Kirkburn | .dk |
| 00:15.51 | Miravlix | The European Union work together on common goals |
| 00:15.54 | Miravlix | It's not a country |
| 00:15.55 | Cairenn | >< |
| 00:16.19 | Cairenn | I am quite aware of what the EU is, as are most in the channel I am sure |
| 00:16.28 | Kirkburn | Miravlix, you're starting to sound like a politician :P |
| 00:16.30 | Cairenn | what we are asking is WHICH SPECIFIC COUNTRY has that RULE? |
| 00:16.51 | Miravlix | Why? |
| 00:16.51 | Cairenn | it is not a RULE in every single country in the EU |
| 00:16.53 | Miravlix | It's EU rules |
| 00:16.59 | Cairenn | no, it isn't |
| 00:17.28 | Miravlix | Worker protection is part of the EU foundation |
| 00:17.39 | Cairenn | ... |
| 00:17.53 | Kirkburn | True, but countries are free to interpret worker protection |
| 00:18.28 | Kirkburn | You're in Denmark, are you not? |
| 00:18.32 | Miravlix | There is a lot of freedom within the EU sometimes, but not with all things |
| 00:18.55 | Cide | Miravlix: Do you live in Denmark? |
| 00:18.56 | Miravlix | Whats where I am got to do with anything? |
| 00:19.10 | Miravlix | And what business is it of yours? |
| 00:19.11 | Cide | because you're saying "here", and we have no idea where that is |
| 00:19.15 | Kirkburn | "<Miravlix> We have work laws here, you aren't allowed to work with a computer for an hour here" |
| 00:19.28 | Cairenn | Your statement that it is against the rules for anyone to work at a computer in excess of an hour |
| 00:19.32 | Kirkburn | We're not trying to get at you, we just wanted to know! :) |
| 00:19.37 | Miravlix | Aah, I had long since moved on |
| 00:19.38 | Cairenn | and that it applies to the entire EU |
| 00:19.46 | Miravlix | The conversation was about Worker laws |
| 00:19.56 | Cairenn | yeah, you moved on, without bothering to answer the question |
| 00:20.02 | Cairenn | we wanted the question answered |
| 00:20.04 | Kirkburn | Okay, I think what we're getting at here is that - you cannot force an employee to spend his time in front of a computer non-stop |
| 00:20.13 | Kirkburn | You have to allow them breaks every hour |
| 00:20.37 | Kirkburn | Which is to prevent eye strain, leg clots, etc ... |
| 00:20.40 | Iriel | Indeed, but it's against the rule to prevent them from taking a break, it's not against the rules for them to NOT take a break |
| 00:21.13 | Miravlix | Depends on the rule |
| 00:21.20 | Cairenn | and if you are so freaking paranoid about us knowing what COUNTRY you live in, then you are very definitely hanging out in the wrong environment |
| 00:21.27 | Kirkburn | *however*, provided to take those short breaks, playing/working on a computer is not unhealthy |
| 00:21.29 | Miravlix | Security at consturction work places goes for the worker as well as empliees |
| 00:21.51 | Miravlix | And how many raiders take real breaks while doing BWL? |
| 00:21.53 | Kirkburn | For lorry drivers, yes, it is illegal for them not to take breaks |
| 00:22.08 | Miravlix | Real brakes isn't waiting at the screen until everyone rez |
| 00:22.08 | Kirkburn | Bio breaks? |
| 00:22.11 | Iriel | I'm talking about being at a computer for over an hour |
| 00:22.16 | Miravlix | Or bio breaks |
| 00:22.17 | Iriel | Not about truck drivers or crane operators |
| 00:22.23 | Miravlix | It's going for a walk or something |
| 00:22.53 | Kirkburn | What exactly are the rules there? |
| 00:23.42 | Miravlix | Mentaly as well as physically removing yourself from the task at hand to relax. |
| 00:46.54 | Kirkburn | G'night all! |
| 00:49.25 | Cairenn | night Kirkburn |
| 00:50.31 | ckknight | g'night |
| 01:39.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
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| 02:17.41 | a-stray-cat | what do you guys use to write xml? |
| 02:19.26 | JoshBorke | vim |
| 02:19.40 | JoshBorke | though XML spy can validate it for you |
| 02:20.47 | a-stray-cat | vim ;o |
| 02:23.17 | JoshBorke | but yea, when I was just starting out, XML Spy really helped me write valid XML |
| 02:24.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.32.87) |
| 02:25.43 | a-stray-cat | my xml spy expired :> |
| 02:31.25 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107 |
| 02:31.48 | Cairenn | a-stray-cat: that was for you |
| 02:32.49 | a-stray-cat | thankie :> |
| 02:33.19 | Cairenn | also, this thread: http://www.eqinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7961 |
| 02:33.48 | Cairenn | although it will require scanning through to find the info |
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| 04:08.08 | JoshBorke | woot, chrommie down in 4 tries |
| 04:08.13 | JoshBorke | nef wtf pwned us |
| 04:14.23 | Jb55 | woot dark edge dropped |
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| 05:18.36 | Tem | WOOOO |
| 05:18.41 | Tem | First Nef kill |
| 05:35.39 | End | gratz |
| 05:35.54 | End | my guild just started working on chrommagus |
| 05:36.56 | ScytheBlade1 | The GMs need to quit slacking |
| 05:37.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I just submitted a harassment ticket, stating that my human priest friend disgusts me to the point of visual harassment |
| 05:37.25 | ScytheBlade1 | And needs to be transformed into a gnome |
| 05:38.06 | Iriel | That seems like a perfect way to get a suspension for wasting their time? |
| 05:38.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Meh |
| 05:38.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Has that actually ever happened? :P |
| 05:38.49 | End | humans are never ugly like dwarf females usually are |
| 05:39.20 | Iriel | I dont know, but it's entirely possible.. One support ticket is probably enough to zero out their profit from you for a month |
| 05:39.40 | ScytheBlade1 | End> I know :) |
| 05:39.47 | ScytheBlade1 | And I'll take the risk |
| 05:41.52 | ScytheBlade1 | GMs work minimum wage, and for the most part quickly |
| 05:42.09 | ScytheBlade1 | If anything, I should have gotten a suspension for parading around on an RP server months back |
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| 06:30.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de) |
| 06:31.39 | s|loup | hi |
| 06:32.16 | s|loup | im looking for someone who has great experience with editboxes |
| 06:44.06 | Tain | Nobody has ever had great experiences with editboxes. |
| 06:49.53 | s|loup | hm than anyone with experience about editboxes? |
| 06:51.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 06:54.02 | s|loup | anyone worked ever with editboxes? |
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| 07:06.38 | krka|work | yes |
| 07:13.19 | s|loup | ah i hope you can help me ;) |
| 07:14.24 | s|loup | i have an editbox where i can put in links but it looks like i can't get more than 5 links in the editbox. all new links i want to include were ignored |
| 07:16.06 | s|loup | also there is a visibility bug, sometimes the editbox doesn't show the whole text and then i work in unvisible areas |
| 07:19.03 | krka|work | yes |
| 07:21.00 | s|loup | hm? |
| 07:26.53 | Wobin | I think the 5link is a blizzard limit |
| 07:29.58 | s|loup | hm |
| 07:30.49 | s|loup | would it be better to write the link as text like |xxxxxxx|link|bla ? Or will the editbox it also see as an link? |
| 07:31.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:35.22 | Wobin | you mean raw? |
| 07:35.30 | Wobin | I think the editbox will still interpret it as a link |
| 07:37.46 | s|loup | ok |
| 07:37.48 | s|loup | thanks |
| 07:38.26 | Wobin | ~seen shouryuu |
| 07:38.27 | purl | shouryuu <n=Shouryuu@42.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 6d 18h 46m 39s ago, saying: 'lol'. |
| 07:38.36 | Wobin | damn =( |
| 07:39.05 | Wobin | any French and/or German speakers around willing to do some translation? |
| 07:47.47 | s|loup | what text? |
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| 08:53.56 | Wobin | Sorry, addon text |
| 08:54.22 | s|loup | qry me so i can check if i can help |
| 08:55.07 | Wobin | k |
| 08:56.05 | Elkano | same here |
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| 09:27.13 | MoonWolf | best guild name ever: <And two stealthed rogues> |
| 09:28.22 | Industrial | o_O |
| 09:28.23 | Industrial | why |
| 09:28.36 | Industrial | <Me so hordey> |
| 09:28.38 | Industrial | xD |
| 09:29.02 | MoonWolf | Your walking around in Western plaguelands, MoonWolf, and two stealthed rogues. |
| 09:29.23 | Industrial | *shrug* |
| 09:29.24 | s|loup | hehe |
| 09:29.45 | MoonWolf | I think its funny. |
| 09:30.14 | s|loup | My rogues are with me ^^ |
| 09:31.16 | s|loup | or Always behind you |
| 09:31.59 | MoonWolf | or in case of a warrior, |
| 09:32.11 | MoonWolf | <And 5 dedicated healers> |
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| 10:01.32 | _B | Warriors with healer fanclubs are such cunts |
| 10:10.03 | Industrial | prettyprinter.de |
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| 10:44.14 | Kirkburn | So, what is the current patch forecast? |
| 10:45.01 | Wobin | Cloudy with a chance of showers |
| 10:46.21 | Kirkburn | I won't be going to Patch then |
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| 12:07.30 | zespri | are there some famous pvp guilds out there? well if not famous, just known? |
| 12:09.44 | Miravlix | Doesn't seem like WoW has much of a culture for legendary PvP'ers |
| 12:09.56 | Kirkburn | There's too many players |
| 12:10.35 | Kirkburn | Yeah ... esp. with so many separate servers |
| 12:10.57 | Miravlix | Then why do raiders get fame? |
| 12:11.10 | s|loup | because they do stuff first |
| 12:11.16 | Kirkburn | They can get world firsts, PvPers can't |
| 12:11.43 | Kirkburn | Although, who knows, that might change |
| 12:11.45 | Miravlix | Not everyone can get world first and still they have more community presence |
| 12:12.02 | Kirkburn | Well, WoW is more PvE oriented |
| 12:12.30 | Kirkburn | It is a good point though ... I'm hoping 1.12 and BC will give PvP more presence |
| 12:13.13 | Miravlix | But raiders do have a lot of firsts |
| 12:13.30 | Miravlix | International First, Region First, Server First. |
| 12:13.36 | Industrial | werent they going to make inter-realm pvp? |
| 12:13.43 | Industrial | (just a question) |
| 12:14.01 | s|loup | if some player has a tactic and style for fighting what was never seen before and is successful he will get famous |
| 12:14.08 | Industrial | s/pvp/bg/ |
| 12:14.22 | zespri | is pvp dynamic in WoW worse then in other games? (guild wars, etc) |
| 12:14.39 | Industrial | i think its worse |
| 12:14.41 | s|loup | pvp in wow is just bgs |
| 12:14.55 | s|loup | real pvp is openpvp |
| 12:15.05 | Miravlix | PvP in WoW is one of the best PvP systems in the known MMORPG world |
| 12:15.10 | s|loup | oO |
| 12:15.15 | zespri | no,no, I'm talking about combat as such, not about details such as bg, world pvp duels or whatever |
| 12:15.18 | Industrial | ~lart Miravlix |
| 12:15.25 | s|loup | i think for this sentence most daoc players will kill you :D |
| 12:15.27 | Industrial | wow pvp is the worst tghing ever |
| 12:15.33 | Miravlix | It's the best |
| 12:15.41 | s|loup | its not its lame |
| 12:15.50 | Industrial | do you mean BG or zon-pvp |
| 12:15.53 | Industrial | Miravlix |
| 12:15.59 | Industrial | zone* |
| 12:16.23 | Miravlix | I mean Player Vs Player interaction, Blizzard really did well with the combat system |
| 12:16.57 | s|loup | the point for bg is that you have always a good ration between the two factions |
| 12:17.12 | Industrial | they are not unique with BG's though |
| 12:17.18 | Industrial | DaoC had that for a long time |
| 12:17.23 | Industrial | speaking of daoc |
| 12:17.25 | Miravlix | Your just into phat lewt |
| 12:17.26 | Industrial | wow needs siege combat |
| 12:17.32 | s|loup | what is player vs player interaction? |
| 12:17.36 | Miravlix | The Phat lewt system is NOT THE PVP SYSTEM |
| 12:17.40 | _B | PvP in WoW is shit |
| 12:17.52 | _B | It was OK before BGs |
| 12:17.53 | Industrial | the phat lewt system? whyat are you talking about |
| 12:17.56 | s|loup | or what do you mean by this |
| 12:18.07 | Industrial | I think its fine that you dont drop items |
| 12:18.11 | Miravlix | The PvP system is the actual combat and fighting other players is superb in WoW |
| 12:18.18 | Industrial | yes yes thats fine |
| 12:18.24 | zespri | pvp interaction is how combat is designed. what you can do in combat what an adversary can do and how this plays out |
| 12:18.28 | _B | lol Miravlix, clue please |
| 12:18.41 | Industrial | I'm talking about how its being used |
| 12:18.43 | Miravlix | I've 10 years of MMORPG experince |
| 12:18.53 | _B | That means nothing |
| 12:18.58 | _B | Except that you are immensely sad |
| 12:18.59 | Miravlix | I've tried most of the MMORPGs out there |
| 12:19.13 | s|loup | but the point is that the players are arrested by the bg system |
| 12:19.14 | zespri | like mechanics you can use and such |
| 12:19.16 | Industrial | _B: hes not sad, you are here in this channel too |
| 12:19.26 | Miravlix | Nothing beats WoW's PvP and I can't think up a better combat system |
| 12:19.40 | Industrial | there is no pvp outside the battlegrounds |
| 12:19.48 | Industrial | again, we need a wilderniss with castles |
| 12:19.53 | Industrial | siege combat |
| 12:20.05 | _B | There was "wilderness" combat before BGs |
| 12:20.19 | Industrial | and capture relics and bring them to your faction's shrine |
| 12:20.21 | s|loup | i will not have any advantage of a banana when i cant open my mouth |
| 12:20.25 | Industrial | and give the whole faction a bonus |
| 12:20.34 | Miravlix | Silly people |
| 12:20.38 | s|loup | so wow have a great interaction but a damn system |
| 12:20.41 | Miravlix | Now your talking about the phats system |
| 12:20.43 | Miravlix | not the combat |
| 12:20.52 | Industrial | im not talking about any combat system |
| 12:20.53 | Industrial | you are |
| 12:21.06 | Miravlix | Can't you tell the differnce between getting rewards and playing? |
| 12:21.23 | Industrial | Miravlix: you are not reading what i'm saying |
| 12:21.30 | s|loup | you said that pvp is best ever and than only talk about a part of it |
| 12:21.35 | _B | Miravlix: can't you tell the difference between a good and bad combat system? |
| 12:21.43 | Miravlix | There is only one part to PvP |
| 12:21.54 | s|loup | pvp is not only the interaction |
| 12:21.56 | Miravlix | The game reward system is a different thing and not one I like the least |
| 12:22.11 | _B | The answer is no you can't, because your mind has been warped by a single strain of computer games for too many years and consequently lose the ability to think laterally about redevelopment |
| 12:22.32 | Industrial | Miravlix: There is more then one thing to pvp. There is a combat system with balanced classes and abilities and roles, and there are GOALS to achieve as TEAM in PVP |
| 12:22.33 | Miravlix | Having to spend months to get the top end equipment, the difference in power level between a 60 and a old 60 due to rewards is all messed up. |
| 12:22.39 | Industrial | Miravlix: i'm talking about the latter |
| 12:22.51 | MoonWolf | and there is a honour system that rewards you |
| 12:22.55 | Industrial | Miravlix: wow needs better PVP goals |
| 12:22.58 | Industrial | like siege combat |
| 12:23.01 | MoonWolf | that is true |
| 12:23.05 | Industrial | real king of the hill |
| 12:23.05 | MoonWolf | the bg' s are not enough |
| 12:23.11 | Miravlix | But that has nothing to do with the actual combat system used |
| 12:23.14 | Industrial | guild owned castles, etc |
| 12:23.16 | MoonWolf | we need something that happens in the world itself. |
| 12:23.19 | Miravlix | It's about what happends after or before combat |
| 12:23.27 | Industrial | Miravlix: screw the combat system i said im not talking about the combat system |
| 12:23.44 | _B | Geekfight |
| 12:23.52 | Industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:24.00 | MoonWolf | the combat is fine, fast paced action, balance is hard, but not as bad as people make it out to be. |
| 12:25.04 | Industrial | there should be more of a challenge to pvp then collecting honor points for better ranks |
| 12:25.14 | Industrial | collective challenges |
| 12:25.28 | Industrial | real raids |
| 12:25.34 | MoonWolf | i like the bg' s but they are the only viable way to get honour |
| 12:25.36 | MoonWolf | and thast not fun |
| 12:25.40 | MoonWolf | thats* |
| 12:25.45 | Industrial | like i'm saying |
| 12:25.52 | Industrial | real raids - they would get you honor |
| 12:25.53 | MoonWolf | on a side note, the way you get honour should be changed a bit too. |
| 12:27.16 | Industrial | all that happens in wow pvp is bored epic loaded guys go out and gank all the little guys that are questing |
| 12:27.24 | Industrial | yay fun |
| 12:27.31 | Miravlix | I generally thing people have a misunderstod attitude towards MMORPGS, they seem to think that they get Oblivion |
| 12:27.59 | Industrial | I bet there is more raid in RP servers then in VP servers |
| 12:28.03 | Industrial | because people hold gatherings |
| 12:28.04 | Miravlix | And get very supprised when all they get is a framework to create Oblivion in. |
| 12:28.06 | Industrial | and other people raid them |
| 12:28.15 | MoonWolf | there is some more raiding |
| 12:28.17 | MoonWolf | but not much |
| 12:28.33 | MoonWolf | we have huge kill the racial leader raids at times. |
| 12:28.34 | Miravlix | RP servers has way more world pvp |
| 12:28.53 | Miravlix | I had to install a filter addon to deal with combat spam on my RP server |
| 12:28.57 | Miravlix | and it's low population |
| 12:29.25 | Miravlix | If I hang out on my PvP server, there is hours between combat alerts |
| 12:29.32 | Industrial | I can almost say that there is no RPG in wow |
| 12:29.34 | Industrial | its just MMO |
| 12:29.37 | Miravlix | and if you try to chase them, no one will be there |
| 12:29.46 | Industrial | apart from the end game quests |
| 12:29.47 | Miravlix | It's a MMORPG |
| 12:29.57 | Miravlix | But as long as the gamer ignores the RP they loss out big time |
| 12:30.02 | Industrial | 'kill 99 chickens' |
| 12:30.07 | Industrial | 'get me 10 feathers' |
| 12:30.13 | Industrial | where the drop rate is 10% |
| 12:30.16 | Miravlix | The game wasn't meant to be MMO it's not designed to be fun if you just MMO |
| 12:30.16 | Industrial | so still kill 99 |
| 12:30.29 | MoonWolf | Miravlix, if they game is not designed to be fun |
| 12:30.34 | MoonWolf | why are so many peope playing it |
| 12:30.36 | MoonWolf | and not |
| 12:30.43 | MoonWolf | a actually fun game. |
| 12:30.45 | Miravlix | Because most play a MMORPG |
| 12:30.45 | MoonWolf | an* |
| 12:30.47 | Industrial | Miravlix: Its the truth that you pick up a quest and read the objectives |
| 12:30.49 | Miravlix | not a MMO |
| 12:30.53 | Industrial | even look the location up for the mob |
| 12:30.58 | Industrial | and the do it |
| 12:30.59 | Industrial | and cash in |
| 12:31.18 | Industrial | I have an idea |
| 12:31.21 | Industrial | What if |
| 12:31.30 | Industrial | mobs didnt have exclamation and question marks |
| 12:31.45 | Industrial | in the OLD games, you'd ahve to go out and LOOK for quests |
| 12:31.47 | Industrial | things to do |
| 12:31.57 | Industrial | fun, exploring |
| 12:31.57 | Industrial | etc |
| 12:32.01 | Industrial | I miss that in wow |
| 12:32.05 | Miravlix | Playing the RP part doesn't have to be like on RP servers, RP servers is for story creation. It's not something a MMORPG need |
| 12:32.27 | Industrial | exactly |
| 12:32.54 | Industrial | efficient questing isnt part of that RP |
| 12:33.26 | Industrial | nore is grinding |
| 12:34.07 | Industrial | I find that i dont play wow for the game itself |
| 12:34.16 | Industrial | i play BG's and i tinker with addons |
| 12:34.23 | Industrial | level up now and then |
| 12:35.13 | Industrial | If i played a troll in daoc i'd run around singing trollish songs stamping on humans |
| 12:35.23 | Industrial | but in wow a troll is z friendly smiling clown |
| 12:35.29 | Industrial | s/z/a/ |
| 12:35.39 | Industrial | meh, enough ranting |
| 12:36.07 | Miravlix | WoW has a persistent world, but I think they forgot to make a reason for the players to care about time passing in the world |
| 12:37.06 | Miravlix | In UO, I build a house, decorated it and all that jazz, it made a very vissible difference that time passed. |
| 12:37.46 | Miravlix | Having BWL equipment is nice, but it doesn't really do anything. |
| 12:37.55 | Industrial | yep |
| 12:38.13 | Miravlix | Leveling a craft skill doesn't really make any difference. |
| 12:38.51 | Miravlix | It's fun here and now, but unimportant tomorrow |
| 12:39.21 | s|loup | do you want a system like vanguard? |
| 12:39.35 | Industrial | Never read up on vangiard |
| 12:39.36 | Industrial | explain |
| 12:39.46 | Miravlix | I just want to code addons |
| 12:39.52 | Miravlix | To hell with the game. :) |
| 12:39.56 | s|loup | as i have read you will leran recipes and other stuff by testing |
| 12:39.56 | Industrial | ;) |
| 12:40.03 | Miravlix | Unless my RP guild gets some good story going |
| 12:40.11 | Industrial | s|loup: oh thats nice |
| 12:40.23 | s|loup | so if you try with different reagents you can get different results |
| 12:40.33 | Industrial | does that also apply tto weapons? |
| 12:40.39 | s|loup | but thats only things ive read |
| 12:40.41 | Industrial | different hilt different grip? |
| 12:40.47 | s|loup | to all as i have read |
| 12:40.50 | Industrial | thats nice |
| 12:41.10 | MoonWolf | sort of like a , keep trying, one day you might get something good out of it |
| 12:41.23 | Miravlix | If it's anything like Ultima Online's growing plants system |
| 12:41.32 | Miravlix | It can be quite fun to research |
| 12:41.34 | s|loup | yes but the question is if this is a system for mass of players ;) |
| 12:41.59 | s|loup | most players just want to play and this system looks like to think about |
| 12:42.15 | Miravlix | And quite fun to take care of your plants each day, cross pollinating to get the right colors |
| 12:42.16 | Industrial | i dont like most players |
| 12:42.36 | Industrial | :) |
| 12:42.44 | Miravlix | If you just want to play wtf are you doing in a MMORPG? :) |
| 12:42.50 | Industrial | yesh |
| 12:43.01 | Miravlix | There is a million FSP, startegy games and others for just want to play |
| 12:43.13 | Industrial | MINUS 50 DKP!! <-- people like that should go awai |
| 12:43.46 | s|loup | hm as i can say wow is effective because it let players play not players think ;) |
| 12:44.07 | Industrial | yep |
| 12:44.08 | MoonWolf | where is makrik wife, ??? |
| 12:44.23 | Industrial | how i mine for fish? |
| 12:44.27 | s|loup | i hate it that wow have no system to change points in character for int, stam etc |
| 12:44.39 | s|loup | as i want |
| 12:44.40 | Miravlix | Follow the roa duntil you come to some tents on the right... |
| 12:44.57 | MoonWolf | you could do that in early beta' s s|loup no idea why it was taken out though |
| 12:45.12 | Miravlix | Because it makes a min maxing game |
| 12:45.32 | Industrial | like AO |
| 12:45.35 | MoonWolf | i like having my stats be different |
| 12:45.37 | s|loup | i thought its out because ist to hard for some playergroups ;) |
| 12:45.37 | Industrial | but don't items do that too? |
| 12:45.46 | Miravlix | It make diversification less likely to happend |
| 12:45.56 | MoonWolf | whats the difference between two tier two hunters ? |
| 12:45.58 | MoonWolf | nothing! |
| 12:46.02 | s|loup | 2 druids with t2 wil have the same stats ;) |
| 12:46.03 | MoonWolf | except for enchants. |
| 12:46.07 | Miravlix | We would all be reading forum X |
| 12:46.13 | Thrae | Setting your Int, Stam, Bonus Points, whatever was in both EQ and DAoC, and I never liked it because you could screw up with your first character and get all the way to Level 40 before you realized how much you screwed up. |
| 12:46.13 | Miravlix | and all using plan Y on druids |
| 12:46.14 | End | well, there -is- spec |
| 12:46.30 | MoonWolf | Thrae, well, respecs should give those back too. |
| 12:46.36 | Industrial | Miravlix: thats also true |
| 12:46.47 | s|loup | yes Thrae but thats a part of a mmorpg as i think |
| 12:46.56 | Industrial | Miravlix: remember though that rpg mostly isnt about skill, and this always stays |
| 12:47.24 | s|loup | talents are just a simple way for that |
| 12:47.30 | Miravlix | In the end the difference between a min/max system and a hardcoded one is none. Because there will be no middle ground anyway |
| 12:47.41 | Thrae | Bah, I've played plenty of MMORPGs where it wasn't like that. |
| 12:47.57 | Miravlix | Talents has a reason not to be template X |
| 12:48.07 | Industrial | so do stats |
| 12:48.15 | Miravlix | And even if you use Template X, you still do a few things differently within the template |
| 12:48.17 | Industrial | depending on your play styler and class and weapon set |
| 12:48.35 | Miravlix | Thats a good system and not a min/max system that might as well be pre-programmed |
| 12:48.37 | Industrial | stats are a nice way to customize |
| 12:49.13 | Miravlix | You wont customize your char though, you just allow for noobs to make mistakes and the hardcore do the same as everyone else |
| 12:49.40 | Industrial | theres lots of cusomizing with hybrid chars |
| 12:49.46 | Industrial | classes* |
| 12:49.51 | Miravlix | Even the talent system has problems wiith THE ONE TRUE TEMPLATE. |
| 12:49.56 | End | there is still cookie cutter builds though |
| 12:50.01 | MoonWolf | there is no one true template |
| 12:50.04 | Industrial | ofcource things will form templates |
| 12:50.10 | Industrial | because stats arent random |
| 12:50.15 | Industrial | and a random mix isnt good |
| 12:50.16 | Miravlix | But even within the true template you can diversify |
| 12:50.17 | MoonWolf | most classes have two or 3 accepted builds |
| 12:50.29 | MoonWolf | but a lot of people make custom builds. |
| 12:50.56 | Miravlix | Feral Druid with 5 points in Motw or 5 points elsewhere? |
| 12:51.01 | s|loup | yes but whats the real differnce between them? |
| 12:51.24 | Miravlix | Going for the 31 point feral talent or not |
| 12:51.41 | Miravlix | Little changes that makes a difference for the player, but doesn't GIMP the char. |
| 12:52.24 | Industrial | anyway |
| 12:52.28 | Industrial | yeah, siege combat.. |
| 12:52.40 | Industrial | wow definately needs that |
| 12:52.41 | Industrial | :P |
| 12:52.43 | Miravlix | That makes the talent system well done and a worthwhile system for us to spend time on. |
| 12:52.45 | s|loup | if i chose a priest and put all points in stam and str i will gimp it but that people should have a gimped char ;) |
| 12:52.57 | Kirkburn | What an ... interesting ... debate |
| 12:53.05 | Miravlix | s|loup: Why, whats the point? |
| 12:53.07 | MoonWolf | s|loup, better use str and agi |
| 12:53.11 | MoonWolf | even more gimped. |
| 12:53.21 | Miravlix | In the end all Priest willl have the same One True Stat Template |
| 12:53.22 | End | yeah, priests don't mind stam at least |
| 12:53.26 | End | str and agi is just wtf :P |
| 12:53.36 | MoonWolf | melee priest! |
| 12:53.38 | s|loup | its always the choice of the player |
| 12:53.40 | Thrae | MMORPGs don't place enough emphasis on skill nowadays. |
| 12:53.43 | Industrial | Miravlix: in the end that makes it an RPG |
| 12:53.44 | Miravlix | The program might as well do it for us |
| 12:53.44 | Kirkburn | Allowing stat customization just opens the game to complete madness |
| 12:54.08 | Thrae | All this damn min/maxing. I'm glad WoW removed one aspect of it. |
| 12:54.10 | Industrial | Miravlix: certainly not |
| 12:54.22 | Miravlix | Unless customization allows a REAL inteligent choice on my part, it's pointless |
| 12:54.30 | End | honestly, I think talents are better than stat tweaking, as the customization if a lot more...interesting |
| 12:54.36 | s|loup | and i think the system of all players of same race and same class get the same stats (in the basic) is stupid |
| 12:54.38 | Industrial | Miravlix: I like to spec my hybrid differentlythen others most of the time in games |
| 12:54.38 | End | s/if/is/ |
| 12:54.47 | Kirkburn | Agreed, End |
| 12:54.52 | Industrial | End: how about both |
| 12:54.54 | Miravlix | Industrial: You like being gimp? |
| 12:55.11 | End | I don't think both is really something that we need to have. |
| 12:55.11 | Industrial | Miravlix: gimp is not the word, because being successful depends on your playing style |
| 12:55.14 | Kirkburn | Stat tweaking removes yet another aspect of skill |
| 12:55.29 | Miravlix | A Balance Druid, is not successfull it's gimp |
| 12:55.33 | Thrae | How does Stat tweaking REMOVE skill? |
| 12:55.36 | Industrial | Miravlix: you are thinking in one straiht line to play a class |
| 12:55.44 | Miravlix | A feral and healer template works |
| 12:55.47 | Thrae | Oh, wait, nevermind. |
| 12:55.52 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 12:56.14 | Kirkburn | Min/maxing and all that, elss balanced play field, etc, etc |
| 12:56.22 | Kirkburn | s/elss/less/ |
| 12:56.45 | Miravlix | Your taking about being intentionally different, taking the bad talents no one else want because it doesn't give you anything |
| 12:57.06 | Kirkburn | (there shouldn't be 'bad' talents in the first place, tbh) |
| 12:57.13 | Industrial | not taking the 'bad' things, taking a different mix of things |
| 12:57.16 | zenzio | there's a difference between "bad talents" and "not the most powerful" |
| 12:57.17 | Industrial | because i play differently |
| 12:57.23 | zenzio | or even common |
| 12:57.26 | Industrial | (this is not in wow, but the ideal situation) |
| 12:57.26 | Miravlix | Thats the only road left in being different, unless you make the game so insanely complicated that all 6M+ players can't use up all the combinations |
| 12:57.48 | Thrae | Kirkburn: So you're saying the addition of Stat Tweaking adds MORE skill into the game? |
| 12:58.00 | Kirkburn | Some talents are just to make it more interesting ... as the main point of a game is fun, not being The Terminator |
| 12:58.29 | Miravlix | It's fun to be the terminator... |
| 12:58.39 | Industrial | everyone wants to be the terminator |
| 12:58.44 | Kirkburn | I didn't say they were mutually exclusive |
| 12:58.46 | Industrial | everyone becomes the terminatot |
| 12:58.48 | Industrial | r* |
| 12:58.48 | End | I want both. :P |
| 12:58.54 | Industrial | the end? |
| 12:59.06 | Miravlix | Druids was *HUGELY* not The Terminator |
| 12:59.18 | Miravlix | We killed people by letting them hit our thorns |
| 12:59.19 | End | lies, I will terminate you with my healing touch |
| 12:59.30 | Kirkburn | Thrae, adding stat tweaking can unbalances the game for those who didn't choose 'the correct' values, which can make it less based on skill |
| 12:59.42 | Miravlix | And no one wanted that play style, so Blizzard Nerfed the druid |
| 12:59.46 | s|loup | i have never seen one dieing by my thorns ;) |
| 13:00.03 | Industrial | Kirkburn: there being 'the correct' values means its imbalanced by default |
| 13:00.12 | Kirkburn | (I'm clarifying my reason, rather than being defensive =) |
| 13:00.17 | End | in the SM armory, I have fun killing all the guys who zerg you in the end with thorns |
| 13:00.19 | Thrae | Kirkburn: Right, so that takes away some of the emphasis on skill. |
| 13:00.23 | Miravlix | Now the healer druid template for PvP was a majorly different play style and Blizzard 'corrected' it to no longer be viable |
| 13:00.24 | Kirkburn | Yeah |
| 13:00.56 | End | Miravlix: yeah, resto was rediculously powerful pvp-wise before the talent review... |
| 13:01.08 | Kirkburn | Industrial, to make it balanced again would be insanely complicated for a multi stat user such as a Pally |
| 13:01.16 | End | they moved some balance talents out of reach for resto if you wanted the feral talents too |
| 13:01.22 | Thrae | Druids are still one of the most versatile for PvE and PvP, in my opinion. |
| 13:01.37 | Kirkburn | What about warlocks? |
| 13:01.44 | Miravlix | We made battles last minutes, instead of seconds and it just wasn't allowed |
| 13:02.01 | End | well, I still make battles last minutes |
| 13:02.08 | Kirkburn | What changed? |
| 13:02.22 | Miravlix | By the players, they wanted to be a Warrior, a Priest or a Rogue, but with cuddly toy shapes |
| 13:02.51 | Thrae | I think Blizzard tried to make all the classes as versatile as they made the Druid for PvP, but I don't think it happened. |
| 13:03.03 | Thrae | The Druid itself isn't THAT versatile for PvP. |
| 13:03.14 | Miravlix | Still, I like the combat system, the way you can move and fight is just exciting. |
| 13:03.34 | Kirkburn | The big problem is, the classes are all very different, but they're better now than when the game was released |
| 13:03.48 | Miravlix | Druid is worse. :P |
| 13:04.10 | End | I disagree, feral was a horrible tree before talent review |
| 13:04.18 | Miravlix | Mage with there low hit point feels eveyrone elses damage going up a lot more than most |
| 13:04.57 | End | a properly geared mage's damage does go up |
| 13:05.02 | End | but they don't gain any survivability |
| 13:05.08 | End | so they just die faster |
| 13:05.15 | Miravlix | It would be nice if it was possible to spec your char defensively or offensively |
| 13:05.31 | Miravlix | and both playstyles having equal strengths |
| 13:05.32 | End | well, some classes -can- do that :P |
| 13:05.50 | Industrial | Miravlix: my point! |
| 13:05.52 | Industrial | tadah! |
| 13:06.06 | Industrial | talents AND stats |
| 13:06.08 | Industrial | ;) |
| 13:06.14 | End | warriors can spec very defensively -or- very offensively :P |
| 13:06.23 | Miravlix | Not in PvP |
| 13:06.29 | Miravlix | They can spec for PvE or PvP |
| 13:06.40 | End | you have a point there |
| 13:06.47 | End | protetion works very badly in pvp |
| 13:06.47 | Industrial | alas, wow was made to be simpler then we are used with MMORPG games |
| 13:06.54 | Industrial | thats just how it is |
| 13:07.02 | Industrial | used to* |
| 13:07.07 | End | the thing is, pvp is based a lot on burst damage |
| 13:07.09 | Kirkburn | But it's also more balanced than most |
| 13:07.15 | Thrae | Warriors should be able to taunt in PvP at least. |
| 13:07.19 | Industrial | Kirkburn: yep |
| 13:07.24 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 13:07.36 | End | (my difference is, I can usually survive burst damage...so...defensively does work in my case) |
| 13:07.57 | Miravlix | End: The offensive playstyle wins all, because the damage has a higher value than defense |
| 13:08.04 | Kirkburn | I like the fact that the class you choose doesn't have a major affect on your relative ability in-game |
| 13:08.43 | Industrial | so, stats and abilities ftw |
| 13:08.45 | Industrial | :P |
| 13:08.50 | Miravlix | Nope |
| 13:09.12 | Miravlix | Just because I could set my stats different wont make it viable |
| 13:09.40 | End | Miravlix: not...quite. I used to be very good at pvp, and I was "defensive" spec'd (low damage output, high survivability). |
| 13:09.42 | Miravlix | Making a 100% stamina druid, with high armor wont work as well as making an all out offensive druid |
| 13:09.46 | Industrial | because i can set my stats different because i set my talents different because i play different makes me different and successful - different. |
| 13:09.46 | Kirkburn | Anyways, many talents are effective stat modifiers in the first place |
| 13:09.56 | End | Here's the thing though |
| 13:10.09 | Miravlix | I've played a resto druid since US beta, we where the defensive playstyle. |
| 13:10.14 | End | it took forever |
| 13:10.30 | Miravlix | But at some point ppls damage just outgrow my defenses |
| 13:10.33 | Miravlix | I can't keep up |
| 13:10.47 | End | hmm |
| 13:10.48 | Thrae | There isn't much defense, period in WoW. Healers can't be properly protected. |
| 13:11.09 | Miravlix | 12K armor in bear form and +sta equipment |
| 13:11.15 | Kirkburn | Since teamwork is almost impossible |
| 13:11.15 | Miravlix | Thats as close as you get. |
| 13:11.41 | Miravlix | But I'm not better than someone speced feral |
| 13:12.11 | End | I wonder though. when I used to pvp was about six months ago. I've noticed a lot more pople with a lot better fear now, so you might be right about offensive overtaking defensive |
| 13:12.13 | Miravlix | He will win more fights than my defensive style can |
| 13:12.16 | End | s/fear/gear/ |
| 13:12.45 | Wobin | So you're looking for a spec that -can't- be beaten no matter how long? |
| 13:12.52 | End | if I pvp'd now, I would be facing people with a lot better gear probably |
| 13:13.00 | Wobin | That'd be a bit imba =P |
| 13:13.07 | Thrae | Well, the best defense is a good offense, but defense should still win to a point. |
| 13:13.13 | Miravlix | Wobin: No just one it takes 10 min to kill |
| 13:13.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 13:13.31 | Wobin | The whole point of defense is that it'll be eventually worn down |
| 13:13.31 | End | Wobin: that sort of spec is an invitation for reinforcements to be a deciding factor :P |
| 13:13.36 | Wobin | aye |
| 13:13.39 | Industrial | I also miss speedbuffs in wow, but thats another point |
| 13:13.40 | Miravlix | Run me out of tricks before you can down me |
| 13:14.02 | Wobin | The whole point of a defensive spec is to hold them in place until someone offensive can gtake them out |
| 13:14.06 | Thrae | There shouldn't be "PvE Specs" and "PvP Specs", all talents and spells should have a viable effect in PvP. |
| 13:14.11 | Industrial | Wobin: agreed |
| 13:14.13 | Miravlix | Naah |
| 13:14.19 | Miravlix | Defensive is just longer fights |
| 13:14.26 | Wobin | hokay |
| 13:14.31 | Miravlix | More skill needed |
| 13:14.36 | Industrial | playstyle, playstyle, playstyle |
| 13:14.46 | Miravlix | More chance of making mistakes |
| 13:15.13 | Miravlix | So it becomes more of a battle of players than a battle of who can hit 3 times first |
| 13:15.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:15.55 | Miravlix | I can move and stuff to confuse my opponent, in purely offensive you don't care you just chase me until you get those 3 hits off |
| 13:15.58 | Thrae | Well, at least WoW isn't half as bad as end-game DAoC PvP. |
| 13:16.00 | End | that's a problem with rogues...usually if a rogue gets the first hit, the rogue wins..otherwise, the rogue probably loses :P |
| 13:16.24 | Industrial | Thrae: it owned >_> |
| 13:16.26 | Thrae | DAoC PvP was all about who got off the 30-second to 60-second Mez first on the enemy's mezzer. |
| 13:16.35 | Industrial | oh yesh true dat |
| 13:16.48 | wereHamster | what's a mezzer? |
| 13:16.53 | Miravlix | Charm |
| 13:16.56 | Miravlix | Calm |
| 13:16.56 | Thrae | Industrial: Not with those "Perfect Groups(tm)" rolling around. |
| 13:16.56 | Wobin | mindcontrol |
| 13:16.56 | Industrial | mezz - sleep stun |
| 13:16.57 | Miravlix | Confusion |
| 13:17.09 | wereHamster | ui.. so many definitions =-O |
| 13:17.19 | zenzio | mesmerize |
| 13:17.24 | Wobin | mesmerize =) |
| 13:17.27 | Industrial | Thrae: heh no, i mean the big picture of the wildernis and castles |
| 13:17.41 | Thrae | Oh yeah, THAT part of PvP totally owned. |
| 13:17.51 | Thrae | WoW is getting that, piece by piece...slowly. |
| 13:18.11 | End | I hear they are gonna do a lot of pvp tweaking in 1.12 |
| 13:18.12 | Industrial | ganking enemy squishies that stood on the fortress wall (!) |
| 13:18.14 | Industrial | fun stuff |
| 13:18.16 | Thrae | The additions of different battlegrounds is nice. Hopefully near the expansion or after it they'll fix World PvP. |
| 13:18.43 | zenzio | fix how? |
| 13:19.30 | Wobin | HAve it work? =) |
| 13:19.41 | zenzio | still tells me nothing |
| 13:19.53 | Thrae | I'd like to see something like special parapats that increase the range of all ranged attacks by +20%. Right now, ranged attacks get no benefit from being higher up, so you don't see epic struggles of an invading force getting cast down from above. |
| 13:19.57 | End | I think world pvp will always be slightly problematic, since you can't stop a zerg |
| 13:19.58 | Cide | well, I think blizzard is working on that part, zenzelezz :) |
| 13:20.07 | Cide | s/zenzelezz/zenzio/ |
| 13:20.10 | End | I did like the TM/SS zerg though back in the day :P |
| 13:20.17 | Wobin | Thrae: That'd be cool |
| 13:20.17 | End | but..it was just a zerg |
| 13:20.27 | Cide | by the way |
| 13:20.34 | MoonWolf | thrae, 1.12 is supposed to adress pvp in some sort of way |
| 13:20.35 | Cide | your names are too similar, my tab completion fails me |
| 13:20.38 | Wobin | I can imagine invasions into Org being taken down by ranged weapons from the streets above |
| 13:20.49 | Kirkburn | Capturable world objectives, most likely |
| 13:20.52 | MoonWolf | there will be mulitple new bg' s in the expansion. |
| 13:20.58 | Thrae | Cide: "zen" tab completes to "zenzio" in irssi |
| 13:21.07 | End | whoa |
| 13:21.10 | zenzio | doesn't matter, they're both me... just different houses |
| 13:21.21 | Kirkburn | And area of outland are being built around PvP |
| 13:21.21 | End | irssi has tab completion? |
| 13:21.21 | MoonWolf | for me it complets to zenz and shows the two options. |
| 13:21.21 | End | NEAT! |
| 13:21.21 | Kirkburn | *areas |
| 13:21.31 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 13:21.37 | End | zenzio: moo |
| 13:21.42 | Thrae | Irssi has everything mIRC has, except a GUI. |
| 13:21.49 | End | Thrae: moo |
| 13:21.54 | MoonWolf | mirc sucks |
| 13:21.56 | MoonWolf | use xchat |
| 13:21.57 | End | Cide: moo |
| 13:22.03 | Cide | moo |
| 13:22.03 | Kirkburn | How can something not have a gui?? |
| 13:22.11 | End | it sits in a terminal |
| 13:22.13 | Kirkburn | You type blind? |
| 13:22.13 | End | that's how |
| 13:22.20 | Thrae | Maybe irssi intelligently picks a tab completion option based on who last spoke? |
| 13:22.28 | Cide | Thrae: I'm guessing mine does ascending |
| 13:22.29 | End | Thrae: probably |
| 13:22.42 | End | Kirkburn: I could make a screenshot |
| 13:22.43 | Cide | nicklist by ascending order, that is |
| 13:23.03 | Kirkburn | End, no need, I'm just pointing out that it sounds silly =) |
| 13:23.07 | Thrae | My tab completion in irssi almost never fails, even with 5 people with similiar names. |
| 13:23.23 | Cide | well, say you want to type zenzelezz then :) |
| 13:23.34 | Cide | zen -> tab would give you zenzio! |
| 13:23.41 | Kirkburn | Gronn smiley... -) |
| 13:23.44 | MoonWolf | irssi has a gui |
| 13:23.47 | MoonWolf | only its text based |
| 13:23.57 | Thrae | Cide: Given my assumption, if zenzelezz last spoke, then it would tab complete to zenzelezz ;) |
| 13:23.58 | MoonWolf | and not graphic like a x or windows app. |
| 13:24.00 | End | well, I guess you could call it gui |
| 13:24.07 | End | but I'd just call it a ui |
| 13:24.08 | Cide | Thrae: ah, that's pretty neat actually |
| 13:24.27 | Industrial | < Thrae> I'd like to see something like special parapats that increase the range of all .. etcetc |
| 13:24.28 | End | since it doesn't have point and click and widgety things |
| 13:24.35 | Industrial | Thrae: you need something to shoot down from too |
| 13:24.49 | Thrae | I don't think you can call a text-based interface a "GUI", since it undermines what people usually mean when they say "GUI". |
| 13:25.00 | Kirkburn | bah |
| 13:25.52 | End | the whole reason I use irssi though is so I can stick it in a screen session and reconnect to it from wherever |
| 13:25.53 | Thrae | A Graphical User Interface shouldn't include a text-only interface, even though characters on a screen are technically "graphical objects" ;) |
| 13:25.57 | Cide | seen as the G in GUI is Graphical |
| 13:26.13 | Thrae | End: Me too, and split windows! |
| 13:26.14 | End | thus, I never disconnect even though I'm switching physical locations |
| 13:26.35 | Industrial | how about Window Managed Interface and Text Based interface |
| 13:26.45 | Industrial | meh, window can bet ext based too.. |
| 13:26.52 | zenzio | I still don't really get screen... other than that my Xfce was upset when I logged out the user that started it if I didn't run it in screen |
| 13:27.20 | Industrial | End: yep me too |
| 13:27.28 | Thrae | screen is good if you change computers and can ssh into the computer running screen, that's all. |
| 13:27.48 | Thrae | ssh/telnet/whatever (hopefully ssh!) |
| 13:28.12 | End | I doubt many people still use telnet |
| 13:28.31 | Industrial | use it for my router |
| 13:28.31 | Industrial | :P |
| 13:28.42 | Thrae | I ssh into my router ;) |
| 13:29.52 | End | hmm, I forgot about routers |
| 13:32.49 | Industrial | themetest asdfasdf |
| 13:32.56 | Industrial | horrible :P |
| 13:33.24 | Industrial | set theme kaer |
| 13:33.26 | Industrial | oops |
| 13:34.48 | Legorol | is it just me or Wiki is extremely slow |
| 13:44.35 | Kirkburn | Wowwiki? Yes, it is a bit |
| 13:46.34 | End | wowwiki seems slow an awful lot :( |
| 13:46.41 | End | of the time that is |
| 14:10.35 | Kirkburn | Submitting updates is excruciating ... it can take upwards of 5 mins |
| 14:11.04 | Kirkburn | Problem is, the admin isn't really involved any more, so I don't know what the server situation is |
| 14:39.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip70-181-48-123.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 14:44.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:52.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=khamer@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:07.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zenzio_ (n=zenzelez@ti131310a080-10753.bb.online.no) |
| 15:09.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-191.handshake.de) |
| 15:21.52 | Kirkburn | So apparently it's 44.5 degrees C outside ... |
| 15:22.15 | Kirkburn | Welcome to ... "Why not to leave your sensor in the sun" |
| 15:23.04 | Kirkburn | All the kittens have gone inside :( |
| 15:27.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Depress (n=Shouryuu@146.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 15:28.44 | Kirkburn|Clown | Tain evidently didn't approve :( |
| 15:28.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:29.00 | Shouryuu|Depress | I will *never* ever write another addon for someone |
| 15:29.09 | Kirkburn|Clown | That's nice |
| 15:29.10 | End | *never*? |
| 15:29.10 | Ktron | heh... |
| 15:29.13 | Shouryuu|Depress | I wrote this http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-3766-1-bg-flag-info.html for a guy called Likus a while back |
| 15:29.22 | Shouryuu|Depress | take a look at this http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-4278-1-bgflaginfo.html#comments |
| 15:29.52 | Shouryuu | He changed the name from BG Flag Info to BGFlagInfo and added slash commands |
| 15:30.27 | Kirkburn|Clown | That's baad |
| 15:30.32 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:30.33 | Kirkburn|Clown | And somewhat familiar |
| 15:30.36 | Shouryuu | that angers me |
| 15:30.41 | Kirkburn|Clown | It angered me too :) |
| 15:30.44 | Ktron | yeah |
| 15:30.51 | Ktron | not cool |
| 15:30.53 | Shouryuu | I mean I wrote the thing FOR him, and he feels like taking credit... |
| 15:30.55 | Shouryuu | life is unfair |
| 15:30.56 | End | well, at least he -added- something, but still, he failed to give credit where credit was due |
| 15:31.00 | krka|work | come on guys, we all do it |
| 15:31.15 | Kirkburn|Clown | ... |
| 15:31.19 | Shouryuu | not in such a blatant manner |
| 15:31.21 | End | I do borrow code sometimes, but I give credit |
| 15:31.31 | krka|work | i do it more blatant and with less credit! |
| 15:31.36 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:31.39 | Kirkburn|Clown | I remember when someone uploaded 'ClearFont' ... that was interesting |
| 15:31.45 | Shouryuu | loool |
| 15:31.48 | Ktron | Make an addon called LiukusTakesItInTheAss Shouryuu |
| 15:32.05 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:32.07 | Ktron | or something more creative, if you can be |
| 15:32.12 | Ktron | it's too early for me to try to be |
| 15:32.15 | Kirkburn|Clown | Shurely not! |
| 15:32.16 | Shouryuu | Violence only begets more violence... |
| 15:32.22 | End | although, funny thing...someone borrowed my borrowed code and gave me credit...but it still had my credit comment to. so it had a line giving me credit followed by a line immediately giving someone else credit |
| 15:32.23 | Shouryuu | Shurely? |
| 15:32.35 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:32.41 | _B | Well that addon is toss anyway so I wouldn't get too worked up about it |
| 15:32.46 | krka|work | i mean... AutoTravel was a ripoff of AutoPilot (i just changed name and slashcommands) and FAIAP was a ripoff of AllYourIndentsAreBelongToUs (AYIABTU) |
| 15:32.52 | Shouryuu | Yeah I know :P But still |
| 15:32.53 | krka|work | but no one remembers those anymore |
| 15:34.12 | Kirkburn|Clown | Lol _B, that was almost a veiled insult to Shouryuu's coding :) |
| 15:34.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix_ (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 15:34.33 | Shouryuu | Those aren't unfamiliar |
| 15:34.53 | Shouryuu | I'm not a pro or whatever, and live fine with it :D |
| 15:34.53 | Kirkburn|Clown | :P |
| 15:35.01 | Crispix_ | man... Elder Scrolls 4:Oblivion is nuts... |
| 15:35.10 | Kirkburn|Clown | UberShou! |
| 15:35.13 | End | peanuts are nuts too! |
| 15:35.19 | Wobin | hehe if anyone ever rips off my code they can feel free to run support for it =P |
| 15:35.20 | Kirkburn|Clown | Mmm, monkeys |
| 15:35.22 | Shouryuu | lol to both of you |
| 15:35.41 | krka|work | actually... AbandonShip ripped some of me |
| 15:35.48 | krka|work | but added the credits when i asked atleast |
| 15:35.49 | Wobin | Shou, post request after request for upgrades and new features =P |
| 15:36.03 | Shouryuu | haha |
| 15:36.06 | End | too much of my code is badly written enough where someone else would have trouble understanding and maintaining it :-/ |
| 15:36.29 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 15:36.50 | End | Let's put it this way: I wasn't really thinking ahead when I wrote it. |
| 15:37.20 | Wobin | Shou, are ou up for some French translations? |
| 15:37.39 | Shouryuu | EEEEEEEEEEEEErmmmmmmmm |
| 15:37.43 | Shouryuu | if they aren't too long |
| 15:37.45 | Shouryuu | why not |
| 15:37.55 | Shouryuu | Actually |
| 15:37.58 | Ktron | I've come up with a new idea and I want to confirm that this hasn't already been done |
| 15:38.03 | Kirkburn|Clown | single |
| 15:38.03 | Shouryuu | I'm bored to death, so hit me |
| 15:38.03 | Kirkburn|Clown | word |
| 15:38.05 | Kirkburn|Clown | per |
| 15:38.06 | Kirkburn|Clown | line |
| 15:38.07 | Kirkburn|Clown | day! |
| 15:38.12 | End | Kirkburn |
| 15:38.12 | End | I |
| 15:38.13 | End | hate |
| 15:38.14 | End | your |
| 15:38.15 | End | guts |
| 15:38.18 | Ktron | (for an addon) |
| 15:38.19 | Shouryuu | ~lart Kirkburn|Clown |
| 15:38.29 | Kirkburn|Clown | BEEEEEEEEEP |
| 15:38.40 | Cairenn | will |
| 15:38.42 | Cairenn | smack |
| 15:38.43 | Cairenn | you |
| 15:38.44 | End | Ktron: tell us, so that we can steal your idea and make megabucks off of it |
| 15:38.44 | Cairenn | all |
| 15:38.46 | Cairenn | around |
| 15:39.02 | Kirkburn|Clown | Australia |
| 15:39.25 | Ktron | Here's the idea: An addon that automatically 'groups' same named (and maybe typed) items in your bags-- ie, you fill up one stack of runecloth, it makes a second stack right next to it, shifting all adjacent items over as necessary or such |
| 15:39.42 | Ktron | End, whichever, as long as it is coded and I can use it, I don't care who makes it;) |
| 15:39.49 | Kirkburn|Clown | waitasec |
| 15:39.50 | End | hehe |
| 15:39.58 | Shouryuu | bully |
| 15:40.02 | Cairenn | exists |
| 15:40.07 | Kirkburn|Clown | in |
| 15:40.15 | Wobin | It's called MrPlow =P |
| 15:40.25 | Cairenn | amongst others |
| 15:41.09 | End | does MrPlow sort on the fly? I seem to remember having to manually run it (but there may have been an option I missed...) |
| 15:41.51 | Wobin | Ah, no it doesn't |
| 15:42.00 | Wobin | I deliberately didn't implement that =) |
| 15:42.11 | Kirkburn|Clown | Could get confusing |
| 15:42.23 | Kirkburn|Clown | Useful with an all-in-one-bag addon |
| 15:42.24 | krka|work | should be called Group Slot EXchanger |
| 15:42.32 | Wobin | I recall one restacking addon that kept restacking while I was midcombat |
| 15:42.37 | End | ouch |
| 15:42.38 | krka|work | in fact, i might make one, just to get that name |
| 15:42.43 | Shouryuu | GSEX? |
| 15:42.45 | Wobin | (No I -dont'- want to use tha bandage on the mob...) |
| 15:42.54 | Ktron | yeah, I'm reading for that... I'd be much happier if the addon ran everytime I picked up an item, truthfully... just let all loot organization be handed over to the addon |
| 15:42.58 | Kirkburn|Clown | looool |
| 15:43.04 | Kirkburn|Clown | I just got it :) |
| 15:43.04 | Wobin | EngInv =) |
| 15:43.14 | Kirkburn|Clown | Shouryuu, not quite ;) |
| 15:43.17 | Wobin | (Or PlowKing once it gets released =P) |
| 15:43.38 | Ktron | but... it can't be the big of a hack to make MrPlow run 'theworks' on inv change |
| 15:43.46 | Wobin | well... no |
| 15:43.50 | Wobin | but then it'll run on each swap |
| 15:43.51 | Ktron | or even better |
| 15:43.54 | Shouryuu | I'm not getting iiit :( |
| 15:43.58 | Wobin | and that'll cascade into something horrible |
| 15:43.58 | End | well, you'll want to do it only on pickup though |
| 15:44.03 | End | yeah |
| 15:44.16 | Ktron | run 'theworks' whenever the/a bag is openned |
| 15:44.20 | Wobin | Well, how do you define 'pickup'? Bag_update? |
| 15:44.24 | End | I dunno |
| 15:44.33 | Wobin | Ktron: That'd be irritating =( |
| 15:44.35 | End | it's probably not simple to figure out |
| 15:44.38 | Wobin | You open the bag to grab a potion... |
| 15:44.42 | Wobin | and everything moves about =P |
| 15:44.46 | Kirkburn|Clown | Anyone else here getting Group Se .... ahem |
| 15:44.50 | Wobin | It'd be a nightmare =) |
| 15:45.05 | Ktron | Wobin, no, because it'd be already be ordered Wobin, MrPlow should reorganize organized things |
| 15:45.11 | Kirkburn | Shouryuu isn't getting any :P |
| 15:45.19 | Wobin | Ah, but to reorganise, it'll have to shift everything one slot at least |
| 15:45.51 | Ktron | how long does it take for it to 'organize' the bag? a while? |
| 15:46.04 | Wobin | for it not to move anything but the new item, you'll have to have an addon that deals with the slots on an individual basis |
| 15:46.20 | Wobin | a couple of moves a second? |
| 15:46.23 | Wobin | Depends on latency |
| 15:47.03 | Ktron | oh, blech... so like a while if you've got a big inv |
| 15:47.11 | Wobin | it can =) |
| 15:47.13 | End | yeah |
| 15:47.19 | Wobin | But you can run it with the bags closed |
| 15:47.35 | Ktron | yeah, I think an addon that simply tries to finish stacks, and if it can't, swaps to put the new stack next to the old is all I want |
| 15:47.44 | Ktron | so, at most, a handful of item swaps |
| 15:47.46 | Shouryuu | lol Kirkburn I'm a slow guy... |
| 15:47.49 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 15:48.02 | Wobin | I advise you give it a go, and see how long it takes |
| 15:48.12 | Kirkburn | Yoyu shouldn't need to resort your bag that often |
| 15:48.27 | Ktron | current version if 4.5 off of wowace? |
| 15:48.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zenzio_ (n=zenzelez@ti131310a080-6289.bb.online.no) |
| 15:48.39 | Wobin | 4.5.2 or something |
| 15:48.50 | Wobin | either grab it off Wowi or the SVN |
| 15:49.18 | Wobin | Although I'm going to update it soon for slot ignoring |
| 15:49.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 15:49.53 | Wobin | 4.5.4 |
| 15:50.03 | Wobin | It all links to WoWi anyway |
| 15:50.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@adsl-71-147-10-6.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:51.03 | Ktron | heh, yeah, MrPlow takes a while heh |
| 15:52.00 | Ktron | hm... |
| 15:52.03 | Ktron | I will think |
| 15:52.45 | krka|work | should be easy to do an onupdate thingy that browses through the bag sometimes and looks for stuff to improve |
| 15:52.49 | krka|work | and improves one thing at a time |
| 15:53.45 | Wobin | rofl |
| 15:53.46 | Wobin | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-customer-service&t=46270&p=1&tmp=1#post46270 |
| 15:53.55 | Wobin | This is a classy one |
| 15:54.15 | Ktron | yeah, I think I may try to make a really simple addon like that... when you get an item, it'll just check to see if you have one of those already, and if so, add it to the stack, and if it can't, stack it right next to it |
| 15:55.03 | Ktron | if the item next to it isn't 'grouped', then move it to the end, if it is, kind of 'swap/move' the groups until you find a small group and/or make space |
| 15:55.15 | End | obviously, you'll have to watch out for deliberate stack splits :P |
| 15:55.23 | Elkano | btw: is the paladin talent calculater broken for you, too? |
| 15:56.14 | Ktron | yeah, maybe try to have some way to mark a item/item stack as always separate-- ie, do not add to the stack or group with the stack |
| 15:59.31 | Ktron | how fast/slow is bag scanning? |
| 16:00.22 | Kirkburn | heh, very good Wobin |
| 16:00.53 | Wobin | Fairly fast |
| 16:01.00 | Wobin | But not something you want running all the time |
| 16:01.08 | Wobin | scan on demand is best |
| 16:04.46 | Kirkburn | Btw, these are updated patch notes: https://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-test-realm-en&t=150834 |
| 16:05.16 | Ktron | I think I'll just have to test to whether scanning the inv every time I pick up an item is too slow or whether making a database of the items in the inv in memory would be much better |
| 16:05.27 | Shouryuu | rawr out |
| 16:05.30 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@146.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:06.46 | Wobin | keep it in memory |
| 16:07.22 | Wobin | actually I dunno |
| 16:07.42 | Wobin | I'm not sure what event you'll be working off |
| 16:07.59 | Wobin | Since using Bag_update will be... loopyfying |
| 16:10.01 | End | neat |
| 16:10.02 | End | # Swarms of Eels have been spotted off the shores of Ferelas, Tanaris, |
| 16:10.03 | End | # Azshara and southern Stranglethorn. |
| 16:10.19 | Kirkburn | Wow, those are looong notes |
| 16:12.32 | End | wow, they nerfed Rajaxx |
| 16:12.39 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@adsl-71-147-10-6.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:13.01 | Wobin | omg eels |
| 16:13.12 | Wobin | I see the price of stonescale dropping =P |
| 16:13.14 | End | Wobin, that's what I thought |
| 16:13.16 | End | yeah |
| 16:13.35 | End | fine by me, I fish for them for flasks :P |
| 16:13.42 | Wobin | aw =( |
| 16:13.49 | Wobin | I fish them for money =P |
| 16:15.10 | Kirkburn | The Group Loot/Need before Greed dialogue will now show a golden dragon border around Bind on Pickup items. |
| 16:15.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge BahamutZERO (n=bahazero@modemcable227.10-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:15.57 | End | that's good |
| 16:16.23 | End | haha |
| 16:16.25 | End | A few more civilians, who previously assisted guards, no longer do so. |
| 16:16.35 | End | I thought they fixed that already. |
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| 16:18.06 | Wobin | oo |
| 16:19.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip70-181-48-123.ri.ri.cox.net) |
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| 16:23.30 | BahamutZERO | Hello. I was wondering what the string encoding was in AddOns, and for functions such as string.byte and string.char. The lua specification doesn't seem to specify any. |
| 16:23.33 | BahamutZERO | Anecdotal evidence points at UTF-8, but this is a guess, not a definitive answer I found somewhere. |
| 16:25.50 | Kirkburn | (I can't answer your question, but give it a while, and I'm sure someone will notice :) |
| 16:26.07 | Wobin | (PS, what's the forecast on patch?) |
| 16:26.21 | Kirkburn | (Cloudy with a chance of shower) |
| 16:27.51 | Wobin | (=() |
| 16:28.24 | End | (o_O) |
| 16:28.43 | Kirkburn | (No, you're supposed to say "I won't be going to Patch then" ... c'mon, we've been through this already! =) |
| 16:29.03 | Wobin | I wonder what 'Permanent Dungeon Keys' means |
| 16:29.18 | Kirkburn | Ones that can't be 'used up' |
| 16:29.22 | End | I think keys to unlock doors in dungeon that don't get destroyed |
| 16:29.42 | Wobin | ah |
| 16:29.50 | Kirkburn | i.e. the keys that can go on the ring |
| 16:29.55 | Wobin | Weren't they already permanent? =P |
| 16:31.48 | Elkano | most likely the keys wont be real items anymore so they'll go directly to the ring and stay there forever |
| 16:31.57 | Wobin | Smelting Bronze, Silver and Iron will give increases to mining skill for somewhat longer than they used to. |
| 16:32.00 | Wobin | bah |
| 16:32.03 | Wobin | too late =P |
| 16:33.39 | Kirkburn | I want a key that really means something ... i.e. that you're the only that can use it to get into somewhere, and no-one can follow you |
| 16:33.49 | Wobin | hehe |
| 16:33.50 | Wobin | Unsigned Field Duty Papers now need to be "prepared" by players by right-clicking on them. This action has a 3-minute cooldown. |
| 16:33.57 | Wobin | So much for two turnins =P |
| 16:34.21 | Kirkburn | I'd like a 1 man instance, in fact :) |
| 16:34.42 | Wobin | Well |
| 16:34.50 | Wobin | Just don't invite anyone into your party |
| 16:34.55 | Wobin | and all instances are one man |
| 16:36.03 | Wobin | The Gordok Inner Door Key will now properly be destroyed if you are ever outside the instance and alive. |
| 16:36.06 | Wobin | damnit =( |
| 16:36.20 | Wobin | That means you really need either a rogue or an engineer for tribute runs |
| 16:38.08 | End | or blacksmith |
| 16:38.32 | End | (blacksmiths can make keys, and they should work) |
| 16:38.50 | Wobin | yeh |
| 16:39.28 | JoshBorke | hi |
| 16:39.35 | Gryphen | heya |
| 16:40.43 | JoshBorke | only simple keys can go into the key bag |
| 16:43.10 | Wobin | The Rogue's ability Distract now works properly against other players. |
| 16:43.16 | Wobin | define "properly"? |
| 16:43.20 | JoshBorke | scholo, strat, DM, brd, brd prison key |
| 16:44.37 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 16:53.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:53.38 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.27 | wereHamster | does someone NOT understand german? |
| 17:06.34 | Kirkburn | That's an odd question |
| 17:06.43 | wereHamster | anyway... you don't need to .. just make sure the counter on this page reaches 5millions before the soccer final and watch the game :) http://www.svenswmwette.com/ |
| 17:11.03 | wereHamster | yahoo babelfish is stupid.. basically.. at 1mil hits, he'll post a picture of his GF on the page, 2mil: GF in bikini, 3min: GF without top, 4min: naked and at 5mil she'll run over the soccer field at the final |
| 17:11.31 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 17:11.59 | JoshBorke | can I safely unhook a function if the current function is the same as the function I originally set it as? |
| 17:12.49 | wereHamster | the site got 200'000 hits in the last 5 hours :) |
| 17:13.02 | Wobin | ... |
| 17:13.08 | Wobin | What does his GF think of this? =P |
| 17:13.39 | wereHamster | it's a bet.. I |
| 17:16.27 | wereHamster | I think she already lost :) |
| 17:18.58 | Ktron | the bet seems to be in the millions... and they're only at 500k |
| 17:20.04 | wereHamster | the final is in ~4 weeks.. and he's got 200'000 hits in the last 5 hours |
| 17:20.12 | Ktron | oh, heh |
| 17:21.35 | krka | probably a scam site |
| 17:21.48 | Ktron | babelfish isn't doing this justice... is he talking about posting a pic naked on the site, or a person running naked across the field? |
| 17:22.14 | Ktron | oh, nvm |
| 17:22.20 | Ktron | ~lart Ktron |
| 17:22.29 | Industrial | haha |
| 17:23.36 | Ktron | I bet the odds at 10:1 that when it hits 5 million, he'll opt to forget it and get laid instead. |
| 17:29.47 | wereHamster | we'll see tomorrow when it hits 1mil whether he'll post a pic of his GF.. |
| 17:30.24 | Ktron | well |
| 17:30.39 | Ktron | I bet she'll draw the line at 3 million for the pics if he does any |
| 17:30.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge a-stray-cat (n=email@adsl-63-205-196-213.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 17:30.46 | Ktron | heh, or, he'll just find pictures of a stripper online |
| 17:32.17 | Ktron | then again, he is german |
| 17:32.57 | wereHamster | running `while true; do wget http://www.svenswmwette.com/user/index.php ; rm index.php ; done` for a couple of nights should do the trick.. ;) |
| 17:37.49 | Ktron | heh, I can't tell, does it count per pageload or per unique page hit? |
| 18:21.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 18:22.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:24.21 | Kirkburn | He';s already at 650,000 |
| 18:25.38 | zenzio | "* The Gordok Inner Door Key will now properly be destroyed if you are ever outside the instance and alive. |
| 18:25.38 | zenzio | " <-- no more "kill first guard and reset"? |
| 18:25.45 | zenzio | curse copy+paste |
| 18:26.06 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 18:26.32 | Kirkburn | Is that bad for farmers? |
| 18:26.43 | wereHamster | so how can you get to the king without the key? |
| 18:27.01 | zenzio | it means you now need to bring a rogue or someone who can use the Seaforium (spelling?) thingie |
| 18:27.07 | Wobin | rogue |
| 18:27.12 | Kirkburn | So, bad for farmers? |
| 18:27.12 | Wobin | or seaforium charge |
| 18:27.21 | wereHamster | or a blacksmith with skeleton keys ? |
| 18:27.42 | Wobin | yeah I was complaining about that earlier =) |
| 18:27.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 18:28.16 | Kirkburn | Well, it sounds like a good thing to me :) |
| 18:28.17 | zenzio | hm, wait... how does the "instance reset" feature work? Will your key be destroyed if you kill the guard, loot it, and use the reset feature? |
| 18:28.43 | Kirkburn | You can only reset outside an instance |
| 18:28.51 | wereHamster | can only a rogue open the door or also any blacksmith with skeleton keys? |
| 18:28.52 | Kirkburn | So the two go together |
| 18:28.55 | zenzio | ah, okay |
| 18:29.07 | JoshBorke | takes a thorium skeleton key |
| 18:29.26 | wereHamster | I only have truesilver .. :-/ |
| 18:29.49 | Kirkburn | Wow, the hits on that site are ramping up ... another 10k in 5 mins |
| 18:30.15 | JoshBorke | er, truesilver |
| 18:30.18 | JoshBorke | <-- bad paladin |
| 18:30.43 | JoshBorke | bah! |
| 18:30.46 | JoshBorke | <-- bad blacksmith |
| 18:31.08 | zenzio | "Parties and Raids now can mark targets for their party/raid in the gamefield. A party leader or raid leader/assistant can right-click the portrait of their target to select a symbol to associate with that target. All players in the party/raid will see the selected symbol over the head of the target as well as on the portrait of that target." <--- finally a "Tank's Mark" |
| 18:35.50 | Ktron|afk | very nice |
| 18:36.26 | wereHamster | paladin UI: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4721/paladin8fh.jpg |
| 18:36.59 | JoshBorke | old :-P |
| 18:37.23 | Ktron|afk | If anyone wanted to be mean to Cide slash steal a quick audience, they should release and publicize a 'light' version of CTMod's raid stuff that won't duplicate the new Blizzard features, and will only contain what is left |
| 18:40.54 | Ktron|afk | or, CT people, dooooo ittttttttttttttttt |
| 18:41.10 | wereHamster | I think cide is the only CTRA developer.. |
| 18:41.23 | Kirkburn | Who is/was TS? |
| 18:41.37 | wereHamster | TS? |
| 18:42.05 | Kirkburn | See only other news poster ... http://www.ctmod.net/news.ct |
| 18:43.16 | Kirkburn | zenzio, the new patch notes are long aren't they :P |
| 18:43.23 | wereHamster | webmaster? I think cide mentioned that he was working with someone else on CT but the other person left.. but I may also be wrong.. |
| 18:43.37 | zenzio | Kirkburn: they are, but I didn't start reading right as the link was posted |
| 18:43.43 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 18:44.02 | Kirkburn | Lots of repitititions though, you can tell they're a WIP |
| 18:44.24 | JoshBorke | patch going live or something? |
| 18:44.34 | Kirkburn | Nah, from new PTR build |
| 18:45.20 | JoshBorke | ah, anything new? |
| 18:45.31 | Kirkburn | Well, it's now massively massively long |
| 18:45.43 | Kirkburn | <Kirkburn> Btw, these are updated patch notes: https://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-test-realm-en&t=150834 |
| 18:45.53 | zenzio | "A new boss, Scorn, has been added to the Graveyard in Scarlet Monastery with a new loot table." <--- people might just do graveyard :-o |
| 18:46.39 | Kirkburn | If that section is in the actual notes, I'll be amused. I think I wrote it. |
| 18:46.47 | zenzio | it is |
| 18:46.56 | Kirkburn | Or, at least, I rewrote it to be english :P |
| 18:46.58 | zenzio | under Raids and Dungeons, some way down |
| 18:47.29 | Ktron|afk | yeah, CTMod was 'Cide's and T's Mod' or maybe 'Cide's and TS' Mod' originally... I think T or TS moved on though |
| 18:47.39 | Kirkburn | In the '1.11 PTR special (Woops, I Still forgot some notes!!!)' section, zenzio :) |
| 18:47.50 | zenzio | yes |
| 18:48.08 | zenzio | did I ignore something again? Haven't slept |
| 18:48.39 | Kirkburn | It's very similar to the undocumented changes thread |
| 18:48.47 | End | so,...there ..how recent is this last PTR build? last 1 or 2 days? or longer? |
| 18:48.51 | Kirkburn | Not sure if Schmidt added it or not |
| 18:48.54 | Kirkburn | Last 2 days |
| 18:48.57 | End | ok |
| 18:49.09 | Kirkburn | Possibly 3 |
| 18:49.15 | Kirkburn | Recent, anyway :) |
| 18:49.39 | End | if I had to guess, they put it up late friday |
| 18:49.58 | Kirkburn | (hmm, I meant Schwick, not Schmidt) |
| 18:49.59 | End | just from when they typically put it up |
| 18:52.11 | Kirkburn | Ah, no, it's not all copied from the undocumented changes thread ... heh, maybe I will get something I wrote in the final patch notes after all :D |
| 18:52.48 | wereHamster | where are the patch notes for warriors ? |
| 18:53.01 | wereHamster | -.- .. second post |
| 18:53.03 | zenzio | here and there |
| 18:54.23 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 18:56.35 | Kirkburn | Ooooh, now *that* explains why there's a party going on donwstairs |
| 18:56.46 | Kirkburn | Ital v Ghana just about to begin |
| 18:57.00 | wereHamster | :) |
| 18:57.01 | Kirkburn | *italy .... I s'pose I should watch it :) |
| 18:57.06 | wereHamster | and who'll win? |
| 18:57.11 | Kirkburn | Ghana, natch |
| 18:57.29 | Kirkburn | The italians will just spend their time showing off their greasy hair ;) |
| 18:58.18 | wereHamster | Czech republic has won against USA .. yay :) |
| 18:58.23 | Kirkburn | Heh, I don't recognise a single name from their squad |
| 18:58.42 | Kirkburn | heh, yeah ... Australia won though, which I like |
| 18:58.54 | Kirkburn | Their first ever world cup win! |
| 19:00.49 | Kirkburn | Actually, I probably needn't watch .. I could just listen to the commotion downstairs :D |
| 19:01.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=khamer@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.16 | Ktron | Heh, xchat ftww |
| 19:07.37 | wereHamster | ftww? for the whining winners? |
| 19:10.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-191.handshake.de) |
| 19:10.57 | Ktron | asking Mammacass http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=3532 |
| 19:11.08 | Ktron | s/asking/ask/ |
| 19:22.43 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:32.56 | End | uh, they are giving the US world of warcraft website a makeover |
| 19:33.00 | End | s/uh/hmm/ |
| 19:33.09 | End | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml |
| 19:34.19 | JoshBorke | if i have a function that returns 3 values, I can encapsulate them in a table by doing 'local tbl = { myFuncWith3ReturnValues }'? |
| 19:34.51 | End | yes |
| 19:35.00 | JoshBorke | ok, cool, thanks :-) |
| 19:35.09 | JoshBorke | hm, but then how do i get to the info? |
| 19:35.19 | End | tbl[1], tbl[2], tbl[3] |
| 19:35.23 | JoshBorke | ok, cool, thanks :-) |
| 19:35.25 | End | or you could unpack() them |
| 19:35.34 | End | local x,y,z = unpack(tbl) |
| 19:35.50 | End | unpack won't like it if your return values had any nils in them though |
| 19:36.47 | JoshBorke | the indexed way works just as well :-) |
| 19:37.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-128-96.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:40.28 | Kirkburn | :( Italy scored |
| 19:41.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 20:05.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@146.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 20:16.12 | Shouryuu | Well people I'm out of here |
| 20:16.27 | Shouryuu | I've come to realize that I've lost alot of time scripting, chatting, posting and so forth when I should have been working... |
| 20:16.45 | Shouryuu | I've also grown quite uninterested in everything related to this community :( |
| 20:17.01 | Shouryuu | Thanks to all of whom answered my nagging questions :P |
| 20:17.12 | Shouryuu | It's been fun :D Good luck to you all |
| 20:17.18 | Shouryuu | and see you around, hopefuly |
| 20:17.23 | Shouryuu | Best wishes to you all |
| 20:24.41 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 20:27.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|home (i=andrew@203.100.211.10) |
| 20:28.31 | Kalroth | yet another burnout of the vicious and competitive wow addon scene! |
| 20:36.15 | Kirkburn | lol |
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| 20:38.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 20:48.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@85.24.45.61) |
| 20:50.42 | Maldivia | hmm... anyone knows who "Brian Fitzgerald" is ? :) |
| 20:51.12 | End | hmm |
| 20:51.21 | End | is that one of the svn devs? |
| 20:51.33 | End | hmm |
| 20:51.35 | End | doesn't look like it |
| 20:51.53 | End | politician? |
| 20:51.54 | Maldivia | he's a Blizzard developer |
| 20:52.07 | End | oh |
| 20:52.29 | Maldivia | was just wondering if he was one of the devs that post on the forums |
| 20:52.41 | End | don't think so |
| 20:52.56 | End | I've probably seen his name before though |
| 20:53.02 | Miravlix | http://www.csis.ul.ie/staff/bf/brian/ |
| 20:53.14 | Maldivia | he's been involved in almost all Blizzard games |
| 20:53.33 | Miravlix | It's quite a common name lots of Irish Fitzgerald's out there |
| 20:53.40 | Maldivia | doubt it's him... |
| 20:53.43 | Miravlix | and there parents all called them Brian |
| 20:53.51 | End | looks like he is mostly a mac programmer |
| 20:54.15 | End | WoW is the first game that he is involved in that doesn't label him as programmer: Macintosh |
| 20:54.18 | Maldivia | well, apparently, he made/tested/something the background downloader :) |
| 20:54.39 | Miravlix | Lets kill him |
| 20:54.49 | Maldivia | and his computer's name is "P-BFITZGERALD" |
| 20:54.56 | End | lol |
| 20:55.22 | Maldivia | and fetched a background download torrent from the machine: "qamac24" |
| 20:55.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 20:56.02 | Maldivia | (check first entry in logs\BackgroundDownloader.log) |
| 20:58.17 | End | (hmm, I was thinking of a Fitzpatrick originally instead of a fitzgerald) |
| 21:10.07 | Legorol | g'evening folks |
| 21:10.33 | Legorol | I finally bothered and uploaded http://www.wowwiki.com/EU_English_Realms_Info and http://www.wowwiki.com/EU_English_Realms_Migration, in case anyone's interested |
| 21:10.35 | End | helllo |
| 21:17.08 | End | whoa, heheh |
| 21:17.11 | End | so |
| 21:17.23 | End | Google ported Google Earth to Linux |
| 21:17.23 | Kirkburn | Maldivia, I noticed that too, random isn't it :P |
| 21:17.32 | wereHamster | there's an update on http://www.svenswmwette.com/ :) |
| 21:17.46 | End | I was wondering if it ran under FreeBSD as well (under linux compat mode) as I would expect |
| 21:17.52 | Maldivia | Kirkburn: hehe |
| 21:18.03 | Kirkburn | It's still in german wereHamster! :/ |
| 21:18.26 | Maldivia | Legorol: it's not complete... |
| 21:18.46 | End | turns out, it detected I had FreeBSD (didn't use the Linux bash) and has a FreeBSD symlink poiting to Linux |
| 21:19.09 | Maldivia | Legorol: ahh, I see some question marks... I just know that there was a migration from Dragonmaw at some point (I'm 99% sure of that) |
| 21:19.14 | Kirkburn | What, exactly, is the update? Am I missing something? 842k atm |
| 21:19.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:19.31 | Kalroth | hej Cide |
| 21:19.38 | End | helllo Cide |
| 21:19.56 | Cide | ooh.. I'm popular today! hi there |
| 21:19.58 | Maldivia | Legorol: nevermind, found it - misspelled :) |
| 21:20.00 | wereHamster | he's out in a seminar and he won't have a chance to upload the pictures until Wednesday evening |
| 21:20.32 | wereHamster | .. and his GF is not happy about how fast it goes ;) |
| 21:21.53 | Legorol | Maldivia: what was misspelled? |
| 21:22.00 | Maldivia | Legorol: my search :) |
| 21:22.00 | Legorol | i could quite possibly make a spelling mistake.. |
| 21:22.08 | Legorol | there are only two lines with question marks |
| 21:22.13 | Legorol | the rest, i beleive, are accurate |
| 21:22.35 | Maldivia | Legorol: seems so, I just misspelled Dragonmaw when searching for it :) |
| 21:22.44 | Legorol | hehe, yeah i have a char on there too, so i know there were migrations |
| 21:23.09 | Legorol | btw, compiling the list of locations for the servers was quite fun! |
| 21:23.19 | Legorol | it's all based on official blue news posts and forum posts |
| 21:23.22 | Legorol | would you beleive it? |
| 21:23.48 | Legorol | if you track all posts that they ever made about certain server groups being offline for emergency maintenance etc., it 100% matches with the locations in the list |
| 21:23.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:25.13 | End | I pondered doing something like that |
| 21:25.36 | End | it's pretty obvious when a entire group of servers go down, and only a few are the problem, that they are somehow related :P |
| 21:26.46 | Legorol | after i was done with the list, i verified it using publically available data such as traceroute and whois lookups |
| 21:26.49 | Legorol | it all matches up |
| 21:26.58 | End | neat |
| 21:32.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-42-137.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 21:52.18 | Legorol | at last! |
| 21:52.27 | Legorol | i have finally tracked down why my ISP is corrupting my Vista download |
| 21:52.56 | zenzio | for pure evil? |
| 21:53.06 | Legorol | my ISP uses transparent HTTP proxies, which I can't avoid just from my end |
| 21:53.11 | Legorol | and they are not letting me bypass them |
| 21:53.32 | Tain | Someone set up a torrent for the download, you still have to have the registration and all but you might be able to get the files that way. |
| 21:53.38 | Legorol | unfortunately, their proxy software must be crap, because it can't handle the value in the Content-Length field of the HTTP response header if it's greater than 32-bits |
| 21:54.40 | End | hmm |
| 21:55.03 | zenzio | I'm curious how it turns it into 13.7MB though |
| 21:55.07 | Legorol | like this: |
| 21:55.18 | Legorol | the real file size is 4309368832, which is 100DBC000 in hex |
| 21:55.24 | Legorol | chop off the leading 1 (over 32-bits) |
| 21:55.37 | Legorol | and voila, DBC000 = 14401536 |
| 21:55.46 | Legorol | that's what messes up people's download |
| 21:55.52 | zenzio | I see |
| 21:55.57 | Legorol | plus, it can be a user-end problem too |
| 21:55.57 | End | Can you use the Range: header to get the file in pieces? |
| 21:56.07 | Legorol | you can, if your download manager is good |
| 21:56.20 | Legorol | for example, IE itself screws the whole thing up as well |
| 21:56.30 | End | That might be the workaround you need. |
| 21:56.33 | Tain | http://vistatorrent.com/ |
| 21:56.41 | Legorol | even if there is no crappy proxy, and the content-length is correctly reported as 4309368832, IE chops it |
| 21:56.48 | Legorol | i already found the workaround when i found the issue :) |
| 21:57.05 | Legorol | sorry Tain i won't download a 3rd party torrent |
| 21:57.07 | End | ah |
| 21:57.12 | zenzio | chops it how, to the max for 32-bits exactly? |
| 21:57.18 | Tain | Someone else might! |
| 21:57.27 | Legorol | anyway, i will shout down the phoneline to my ISP and complain about their crappy proxies |
| 21:57.34 | Legorol | which i am forced to use |
| 21:57.44 | End | who is your ISP? |
| 21:57.50 | Legorol | zenzio: IE interprets the 4309368832 content-length response as 14401536 |
| 21:57.57 | Legorol | so it only downloads the first 13.7 Mb of the file |
| 21:58.01 | Tain | Of course in my mind a Microsoft beta OS couldn't possibly be any more reliable than a random torrent. |
| 21:58.08 | Legorol | true |
| 21:58.15 | Legorol | but still, it was a technical challenge for me :) |
| 21:58.20 | Tain | Sure sure. |
| 21:58.21 | Legorol | figuring out what exactly is the problem |
| 21:58.30 | Legorol | End: my ISP is NTL, one of the biggest in UK |
| 21:58.41 | Legorol | insofar as i could tell, all their proxy servers have the same problem |
| 21:58.43 | Tain | I'm just not even bothering with the whole thing. Vista schmista. |
| 21:58.45 | zenzio | so, um... it shows the length as correctly, but doesn't use it correctly? |
| 21:58.52 | Legorol | nope, not even that |
| 21:58.58 | Legorol | assuming that there is no proxy involved, |
| 21:59.04 | Legorol | and you are getting the right info from the server, |
| 21:59.10 | Legorol | IE itself shows the download as only 13.7 Mb |
| 21:59.16 | Legorol | so you can't download it with IE, full stop. |
| 21:59.18 | Maldivia | Legorol: well, the Content-Length field is actually a 32-bit signed integer, so theoretically, the max size of a file to download via HTTP is 2.1GB :) |
| 21:59.19 | Legorol | you need a download manager |
| 21:59.28 | Legorol | Maldivia: ok, that explains it |
| 21:59.41 | Legorol | so it's MS's fault for serving via HTTP something that can't be fit into the content-length field |
| 22:00.00 | Legorol | so you need a download manager that ignores the content-length field and uses the Range field instead |
| 22:00.09 | Legorol | unfortunately mine is HTTP compliant :( |
| 22:00.14 | Maldivia | well, most browsers support 64-bit integers in the content-length field, but it's not a part of the standard |
| 22:00.22 | Legorol | right |
| 22:00.29 | Legorol | so this whole issue is not really my ISP's fault then, |
| 22:00.37 | Legorol | but MS's stupidty |
| 22:00.39 | Maldivia | firefox ignores the contents length field, the problem is that your proxy doesn't - it seems |
| 22:00.44 | Legorol | yes |
| 22:00.48 | Legorol | my proxy definitely doesn't |
| 22:00.52 | Legorol | i packet sniffed the exchange |
| 22:01.01 | Legorol | both from here, and from an alternate location |
| 22:01.08 | Legorol | so i know that my proxy alters it |
| 22:01.09 | Maldivia | you have access to an external server? |
| 22:01.15 | zenzio | "Any Content-Length greater than or equal to zero is a valid value." |
| 22:01.18 | Legorol | yes, but not to download 4 gigs |
| 22:01.27 | Legorol | in the end this is what i did |
| 22:01.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:01.40 | Legorol | i set up an ssh tunnel to an external server, and started the download via that |
| 22:01.45 | Legorol | so my download manager allocated 4 gigs |
| 22:01.54 | Legorol | i then terminated the ssh tunnel |
| 22:01.58 | Legorol | and carried on with direct downloading |
| 22:02.10 | Legorol | since now the download manager is only requesting partials, it's ignoring the content-length |
| 22:02.13 | Maldivia | Legorol: well, with a web-root with php access, then just create a php file with <?php file("http://some.url/with/path.exe") ?> |
| 22:02.27 | Kirkburn | NTL ftl :( |
| 22:02.42 | Legorol | Maldivia: i have no access to external web server |
| 22:02.52 | Legorol | it's all fine for me |
| 22:02.57 | Legorol | i found the workaround, so it's ok |
| 22:03.05 | Legorol | but this is one heck of an annoying issue |
| 22:03.13 | Legorol | MS are such idiots.. |
| 22:03.25 | Kirkburn | OOOOOOH! http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/index.xml |
| 22:03.32 | Kirkburn | Click click click! |
| 22:04.04 | Legorol | new site? |
| 22:04.04 | Kirkburn | Do it! |
| 22:04.04 | Legorol | nice! |
| 22:04.04 | Kirkburn | Yesssirreeee! |
| 22:04.28 | End | Kirkburn, yeah, I linked that earlier ;p |
| 22:04.37 | Tain | Oh if anyone is interested in the torrent they claim that you can verify against the MS MD5 hash on MS's website when you're done downloading. |
| 22:04.44 | Kirkburn | Not very loudly ;) |
| 22:04.49 | zenzio | "There is nothing wrong with your web browser. Do not attempt to adjust the monitor. We control the horizontal. We control the vertical. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... the new World of Warcraft website!" |
| 22:04.57 | End | KIRKBURN, I LINKED THAT EARLIER! |
| 22:04.57 | zenzio | someone's had fun writing that |
| 22:05.01 | Legorol | so ehm... |
| 22:05.05 | Legorol | how did you come across that linked? |
| 22:05.13 | End | general forum |
| 22:05.17 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 22:05.20 | Legorol | Tain: ok hm, seeing that my download manager just croaked, i might actually rely on that :) |
| 22:05.23 | End | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8684175&p=1&tmp=1#post8684175 |
| 22:05.30 | Kirkburn | yeah, it's on the forums (and thus bluetracker) |
| 22:05.40 | Kirkburn | Very very nice |
| 22:05.45 | zenzio | slow but pretty |
| 22:06.18 | Kirkburn | Sub-menus are much better, less chance of losing them |
| 22:06.46 | End | if you look, it's xsl-processed xml, but most of it is normal xhtml to start with |
| 22:07.39 | Maldivia | slow... that's not the word... |
| 22:07.53 | Kirkburn | It probably only is called index.xml to prevent it being the default |
| 22:08.02 | Tain | It made my Firefox choke. |
| 22:08.08 | Kirkburn | I don't find it slow |
| 22:08.18 | Kirkburn | :/ |
| 22:08.18 | End | works fine with Firefox for me at least |
| 22:09.10 | Kirkburn | It's a bit messed up in IE7, but that's most likely down to browser bugs |
| 22:09.15 | Tain | Yeah something with mine it doesn't like |
| 22:09.16 | zenzio | worked fine for me too, just was slow to load the pictures |
| 22:09.37 | End | wow, it's loading slow with ie7 |
| 22:09.41 | End | it loaded fast with firefox |
| 22:09.58 | Kirkburn | Comparing the two, I'd agree |
| 22:10.17 | End | actually, it's not even loading with ie7 |
| 22:10.24 | Kirkburn | It is for me :) |
| 22:10.44 | Kirkburn | I know of bugs in IE7 that can cause sites to load slowly due to looping problems |
| 22:11.02 | Legorol | hm, i don't like the new design that much |
| 22:11.08 | Legorol | i find the old one clearer a bit |
| 22:11.09 | Kirkburn | Beta 3 is set for august I think |
| 22:11.21 | Kirkburn | Probably when it's got more articles on it'd look more spread out |
| 22:11.25 | Legorol | btw, can anyone recommend a good, free download manager? |
| 22:11.35 | Legorol | preferably one that ignores the Content-Length field :p |
| 22:11.58 | ScytheBlade1 | ...why? |
| 22:12.05 | Kirkburn | (oh wait, it already does has more news articles on) |
| 22:12.17 | Kirkburn | NTL, his ISP, is crap |
| 22:12.40 | Kirkburn | ... at supporting large files, such as Vista Beta 2 |
| 22:12.55 | ScytheBlade1 | vistatorrent.com |
| 22:12.57 | End | http://endif.cjb.net/misc/ie7-wowbad.png |
| 22:12.59 | Kalroth | Legorol: heh, have you tried Free Download Manager? |
| 22:13.02 | Kalroth | Legorol: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/ |
| 22:13.18 | Maldivia | I like the design on the asian wow sites better |
| 22:13.29 | Legorol | Kirkburn: actually now that Maldivia pointed out that the standard says that Content-Length is 32-bit, i am less tempted to blame my ISP and more tempted to blame M$ |
| 22:13.39 | Legorol | Kalroth: yeah that's the one i'm using |
| 22:13.43 | Kalroth | oh |
| 22:13.47 | Legorol | it's awesome, but it honors Content-Length :/ |
| 22:13.50 | Kirkburn | Ah =) |
| 22:13.52 | Maldivia | Legorol: well, actually, the standard doesn't say it's 32 bit, but every implementation I've seen are 32 bit :| |
| 22:13.58 | Legorol | i see |
| 22:14.02 | Legorol | then i will blame the ISP :) |
| 22:14.27 | End | yeah, as far as I can see, standard says nothing about size |
| 22:15.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol, give http://www.vistatorrent.com/ a try |
| 22:15.34 | Legorol | i will have to, won't i.. |
| 22:15.40 | zenzio | like I said, standard sats "Any Content-Length greater than or equal to zero is a valid value." |
| 22:15.41 | Legorol | i hope MS really have those MD5's up |
| 22:15.44 | zenzio | *says |
| 22:15.45 | ScytheBlade1 | It'd probably be faster anyways |
| 22:15.53 | Legorol | not sure |
| 22:15.57 | ScytheBlade1 | That site is run by 2 MS people |
| 22:16.01 | Legorol | the direct download maxed out my broadband connection |
| 22:16.06 | ScytheBlade1 | That said, I have the ISO here, and can confirm it |
| 22:16.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Gimme a few to hash it though :P |
| 22:17.05 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: they don't have the 64-bit version :/ |
| 22:17.08 | Legorol | that's the one i'm trying to get |
| 22:17.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol, Ah. I don't have that version |
| 22:17.16 | Legorol | don't worry about hasing |
| 22:17.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Give wget for windows a try |
| 22:17.26 | Legorol | oki |
| 22:17.29 | Legorol | where do i get it? |
| 22:17.31 | ScytheBlade1 | just google "wget windows" |
| 22:17.34 | Legorol | ok |
| 22:17.41 | ScytheBlade1 | It's a port of an extremely popular linux download app |
| 22:17.47 | Maldivia | wget is signed 32 bit (unless you get the unsorported 64-bit version) |
| 22:17.59 | ScytheBlade1 | CLI only, but just drop it in C:\windows, fire up cmd.exe and have at it |
| 22:18.05 | ScytheBlade1 | wget http://blah/file.iso and tada |
| 22:18.46 | ScytheBlade1 | So on-topic question ;) |
| 22:18.56 | ScytheBlade1 | How can I get the current player's profession information/ |
| 22:18.57 | ScytheBlade1 | *? |
| 22:19.12 | ScytheBlade1 | ie, what professions they have, and what things they can do in taht profession |
| 22:19.28 | ScytheBlade1 | s/taht/that/ |
| 22:20.26 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: check skill lines |
| 22:20.40 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: to find out what they can do, you have to bring up the trade skill windows |
| 22:20.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Maldivia, *have* to? |
| 22:21.00 | Maldivia | *have* to |
| 22:21.53 | Maldivia | you can't get information about trade skills, unless the trade skill is selected, which openes the trade skill window by default |
| 22:23.05 | Maldivia | and I think opening the trade skill window requires a hardware event |
| 22:23.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It would |
| 22:23.46 | ScytheBlade1 | I take it the functions to list everything in that skill are protected? |
| 22:24.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Realistically, I just want an addon that lists all of my trade skills and what I can do within them |
| 22:24.20 | ScytheBlade1 | And exports it, either via SavedVariables or a copy+paste from a text window |
| 22:27.56 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: all the trade skill functions are available to you, you just need to have the tradeskill selected/opened for you to enumerate your recipees |
| 22:28.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Wow, that's retarded |
| 22:29.10 | Maldivia | well, the client needs to know which tradeskill you're trying to enumerate before it can give you the results, |
| 22:29.24 | Maldivia | since it uses the same API for say Leather Working and Tailoring |
| 22:29.49 | Maldivia | how would it know what to list, if you didn't choose firts |
| 22:30.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I was hoping a method similar tooo the way that I found spells in my spellbook |
| 22:30.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I found the number of pages in the book, then number of spells per page, looped through them all and searched by name |
| 22:31.10 | ScytheBlade1 | I was hoping for an array of sorts that contained the trade skills and whatnot |
| 22:31.23 | Maldivia | sorry, no such thing |
| 22:31.42 | ScytheBlade1 | :/ |
| 22:31.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Do I want Crafting or TradeSkills for this then? What's the difference? |
| 22:31.55 | Maldivia | there are actually two trade skill APIs, although I think Enchanting is the only one that uses the "old" API |
| 22:32.18 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 22:33.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Uh-oh |
| 22:33.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Is that a good laugh, or a bad laugh? ;) |
| 22:33.35 | Kirkburn | Ah, so no patch again tomorrow... |
| 22:34.44 | Kirkburn | (the PTR has gone down for maintanence, and they want more testing on Naxx) |
| 22:35.03 | zenzio | or so they want you to think! |
| 22:35.20 | Legorol | unfortunately wget got fooled by the content-length too |
| 22:35.23 | Legorol | at least the version i tried |
| 22:35.29 | Legorol | let's see if i can find a diffeerent version |
| 22:36.03 | Maldivia | Legorol: use the --ignore-length parameter |
| 22:36.19 | Maldivia | wget --ignore-length http://bla |
| 22:36.33 | zenzio | just reads till EOF? |
| 22:38.33 | Maldivia | yep |
| 22:38.50 | Maldivia | or rather, reads until the server stops sending data |
| 22:43.00 | Ktron | anyone know approximately how much experience (total) a player must earn to get to 60 |
| 22:44.14 | SinePi | oddness. Anyone of you in WoW/EU, having problems logging into the forums..? |
| 22:44.49 | Legorol | can try... |
| 22:45.17 | Legorol | .. if the forums load at all |
| 22:45.41 | Legorol | yup, i can log in |
| 22:45.44 | SinePi | then perhaps it is because I am logged into the game as well right now... but that's odd. |
| 22:45.53 | zenzio | I can log in fine |
| 22:45.57 | SinePi | login failure, with 100% correct username and password. wtf. |
| 22:45.58 | zenzio | and I'm logged into the game |
| 22:49.31 | Kirkburn | Can you get the account pages? |
| 22:51.42 | zenzio | yup |
| 22:52.12 | Cide | is it your billing day? |
| 22:55.57 | SinePi | I can easily get to the account pages, yes it is my billing day, and it is 'pending'. |
| 22:56.08 | Cide | there you go |
| 22:56.10 | Tain | That's why. :) |
| 22:56.19 | Tain | It's a bug that they won't fix. |
| 22:56.33 | Tain | At least not so far. |
| 22:56.33 | Cide | maybe with the new forums /hopes |
| 22:56.33 | SinePi | Oh. So I can play, but I can't be on the forums? Shouldn't it be, like, the other way 'round..? |
| 22:56.53 | Tain | You're trying to make sense and use logic! Stop now before you get hurt! |
| 22:57.44 | ScytheBlade1 | logic is overrated |
| 22:58.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Likewise, the logical response to my question, "How do I tell if the current target has mana and what their class is?", would be, "Go search the API listing" |
| 22:58.32 | Cide | don't go search the API listing, whatever you do |
| 22:58.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh trust me, I won't |
| 22:58.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You'll just give me a straight out answer ;D |
| 22:59.16 | Cide | try UnitAntiManaType("unitid") |
| 22:59.33 | Cide | err, no |
| 23:00.03 | zenzio | anti? |
| 23:00.10 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I'm wondering, lol |
| 23:00.12 | zenzio | UnitPowerType or something, isn't it? |
| 23:00.22 | Cide | UnitAntiPowerType("unitid") ! |
| 23:00.37 | ScytheBlade1 | :( |
| 23:00.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That's not in the API listing :( |
| 23:00.48 | zenzio | yes it is |
| 23:00.53 | zenzio | not with the "anti" of course |
| 23:00.55 | Cide | I couldn't give you a straight out answer now, could I? |
| 23:01.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh right |
| 23:01.23 | ScytheBlade1 | That whole logic bit |
| 23:02.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Huh, the Ironforge guards have rage |
| 23:02.34 | zenzio | they have a shield and 1h, they do look like warriors |
| 23:03.08 | zenzio | /script message(UnitClass("target")); |
| 23:03.10 | zenzio | Warrior |
| 23:03.14 | Legorol | Maldivia: ignore-length didn't work either :( |
| 23:03.28 | Legorol | after 13.7 Mb, the proxy starts returning error message |
| 23:03.37 | Legorol | that the requested range is not satisfiable |
| 23:03.42 | ScytheBlade1 | The proxy? |
| 23:03.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Ouch. |
| 23:03.59 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: my whole problem is because my ISP has transparent proxies in place that i can't bypass |
| 23:04.13 | Legorol | and it scrwes up the Content-Length field, and doesn't let me download ranges beyond that |
| 23:04.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I recommend a VPN to a remote location that doesn't have them, and then download from there over the VPN |
| 23:04.31 | wereHamster | change ISP ? |
| 23:04.45 | Legorol | changing ISP is not a real option, for a single download :) |
| 23:04.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I dunno |
| 23:04.55 | ScytheBlade1 | 13.7MB download limit |
| 23:04.56 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: if i had a remote location to VPN into, i would've |
| 23:05.18 | Legorol | no it's not a download limit |
| 23:05.30 | Legorol | it's plain and simple, the proxy software is chopping off a single bit in the content-length field |
| 23:06.09 | Legorol | the 33rd bit |
| 23:06.27 | Legorol | real file size: 0x100DBC000 = 4309368832 |
| 23:06.47 | Legorol | proxy thinks it's 0x00DBC000 = 14401536 |
| 23:08.23 | SinePi | nice find. |
| 23:12.13 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 23:14.09 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@adsl-71-147-10-6.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:15.46 | Kirkburn | Yay, Rustak sorted the wowwiki! |
| 23:15.52 | Kirkburn | It's like twenty times faster :D |
| 23:16.14 | SinePi | wow. :) |
| 23:16.38 | SinePi | hmm. A silly question perhaps. How do players using national characters in names invite each other to a party, except for targetting and using the menu? |
| 23:17.05 | SinePi | (follow-up: why the fsck are national characters allowed at all, seeing as not everyone can type them!? O_o) |
| 23:17.24 | zenzio | alt+code is one possibility |
| 23:17.49 | zenzio | any particular characters you had in mind? |
| 23:17.55 | SinePi | I can imagine myself keen on remembering codes for all accented vowels, yeah. |
| 23:18.09 | SinePi | But I have a good imagination and can imagine even the weirdest things easily. |
| 23:18.30 | zenzio | à ì ï ĩ ? |
| 23:19.08 | zenzio | my keyboard at least lets me do those easily |
| 23:19.28 | SinePi | Straight to the point - is there a suggestion to Blizz guys already, to forbid and remove the usage of such characters..? I wouldn't want to get knocked on the head by suggesting something already suggested or useless. |
| 23:19.33 | SinePi | Heh. ±æê³ñ󶿼! |
| 23:19.39 | SinePi | Polish chars for you. |
| 23:20.07 | zenzio | I wouldn't really expect them to block them if they're already used |
| 23:20.36 | SinePi | even if their usage makes me effectively unable to /ignore someone whose name is chock full of accents? |
| 23:21.05 | zenzio | I could only see them making it easier to ignore someone, like adding "Ignore" to the context menu |
| 23:21.28 | zenzio | but then again I don't know how Blizzard decides such things |
| 23:21.30 | SinePi | (it wouldn't be too difficult to search-and-replace once and for all, and limit creation chars to low ascii only) |
| 23:22.05 | zenzio | what would you replace them with? |
| 23:22.10 | SinePi | (but then, they've already proven unable to do the simplest things, like sitting on chairs treated like sitting, to allow for eating while chaired and not on the floor) |
| 23:22.21 | SinePi | zenzio: the same characters without accents, naturally. |
| 23:22.30 | zenzio | SinePi: that very example seems to be fixed in 1.11 |
| 23:22.53 | SinePi | 'ae' vowel with 'ae' diphtong. 'o-slash' with o. umlauts with non-umlauts. |
| 23:23.10 | SinePi | oh. Is there a more in-depth 1.11 list, than the "in development" on the site? |
| 23:23.10 | zenzio | SinePi: so say there was Mim and MÃm... who would get what? Say MÃm was created before Mim, should the later one still get to keep his? |
| 23:23.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:23.35 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 23:23.37 | Iriel | Afternoon |
| 23:23.41 | zenzio | greetings |
| 23:23.53 | SinePi | okay, easier idea: flag all those accented people as "eligible for name change", as it happens on RP servers for non-fantasy-named people. |
| 23:24.05 | SinePi | (that is, "eligible and forcible", through a web form) |
| 23:24.22 | zenzio | I would assume that would be the way to go if they did something like that |
| 23:25.29 | zenzio | but I believe they intended those "special" characters to be legal characters... otherwise they made a *big* oversight in the character creation code :) |
| 23:25.52 | Iriel | I think the latter |
| 23:26.00 | SinePi | perhaps they just allowed unicode and were happy to see it work. |
| 23:26.02 | Iriel | the game is wide character friendly |
| 23:26.15 | Iriel | I think they just forgot to lock the character creation down |
| 23:26.37 | SinePi | the downside is that they provided no copy-paste mechanism that usually helps standard-ascii-only keyboard users. |
| 23:26.55 | zenzio | well, it *is* American... special characters don't appear too often for them I guess |
| 23:27.22 | SinePi | perhaps the easiest solution of all would be to change "click to whisper" into "click to drop down a menu". |
| 23:27.36 | SinePi | with whisper, ignore, invite, etc. in it. |
| 23:27.36 | zenzio | well, you can always right-click and you get that |
| 23:27.41 | zenzio | but it lacks ignore |
| 23:27.55 | SinePi | ... indeed. There, solution. |
| 23:28.36 | zenzio | I've always found it weird how it only has two choices, one of which is the same as just left-clicking the name in the first place |
| 23:28.50 | Kirkburn | Lol, Fandyllic from the wiki reckons I was 'disgusted' with the voting for the logo =) |
| 23:29.24 | Iriel | logo? |
| 23:33.04 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Proposed_icon |
| 23:33.49 | Kirkburn | The whole vote was turning into a farce before the reset :/ |
| 23:38.03 | Kirkburn | Btw, if you don't know already (which would surprise me), the Interface section of the wiki is being rejigged |
| 23:38.53 | Kirkburn | Oooh, sexy: http://www.wowwiki.com/Interface_Customization |
| 23:41.19 | Iriel | I know people keep proposing reworks of it |
| 23:41.24 | Iriel | I voted on one or two |
| 23:44.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 23:45.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Is there an easy way to make that fun red text appear centered on the screen, the same stuff that pops up when you try to use something that's on cooldown? |
| 23:46.00 | Kirkburn | Would you like an annoying voice with your fun red text, sir? |
| 23:46.13 | Kirkburn | It's free! |
| 23:46.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Weeelllllll |
| 23:46.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Not really :) |
| 23:46.25 | Iriel | You could just call the same method that's invoked by the UI error event handler |
| 23:46.34 | Kirkburn | Side effects: may cause suicidal depression |
| 23:46.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Which method is that? |
| 23:46.57 | Kirkburn | Rope, cyanide, quite a few really |
| 23:47.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, okay. |
| 23:47.03 | Kirkburn | =) |
| 23:47.07 | ScytheBlade1 | >=D |
| 23:50.59 | zenzio | how I wish I didn't love playing my warrior |
| 23:51.26 | zenzio | wanted by every PUG, yet every raid guild is full |
| 23:53.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Iriel, ? |
| 23:53.36 | Iriel | yes? |
| 23:53.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Which method is that? |
| 23:54.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I swear I cannot find it.. |
| 23:55.23 | Iriel | You want UIErrorsFrame:AddMessage(message, 1.0, 0.1, 0.1, 1.0); |
| 23:55.30 | Iriel | See Interface/FrameXML/UIErrorsFrame.lua |
| 23:55.34 | ScytheBlade1 | r, g, b, time? |
| 23:55.41 | ScytheBlade1 | oh hot |
| 23:55.42 | ScytheBlade1 | thanks |
| 23:58.31 | Iriel | Ir's r,g,b,a,holdTime I believe |
| 23:59.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 23:59.56 | ScytheBlade1 | And it also works flawlessly :) |
| 23:59.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Thanks |
