| 00:03.06 | Kirkburn | Legorol, all I can say is, you're not the only one with the problem |
| 00:05.04 | Iriel | Exactly how large is it anyway? |
| 00:05.46 | Kirkburn | Example thread: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=468384 |
| 00:05.57 | Kirkburn | 4.1gig |
| 00:06.03 | Iriel | bytes |
| 00:06.09 | Iriel | how many bytes |
| 00:06.14 | Kirkburn | "The x64 DVD image is over 4096MB. If you remember, this is the magical number of maximum filesize supported by FAT(32) filesystem." |
| 00:06.34 | Kirkburn | "However, this same limitation also occurs in many web browsers and file managers even if the file system does support files over 4096MB. |
| 00:06.34 | Kirkburn | " |
| 00:06.41 | Iriel | That was my guess |
| 00:06.50 | Iriel | that it's 13.7 MB over 4GB |
| 00:06.58 | Iriel | and ie, being the piece of crap that it is, can't handle the length |
| 00:07.12 | Kirkburn | Neither can FF or Opera it seems |
| 00:07.33 | Legorol | Iriel, that still doesn't explain why: |
| 00:07.41 | Legorol | a) my download manager gets 13.7 when not going via tunnel |
| 00:07.52 | Kirkburn | Download manager needs updating? |
| 00:08.02 | Iriel | a) Because your ISP's cache can't handle big files either |
| 00:08.04 | Legorol | b) I packet snooped on IE and (when not going via tunnel) it recieves a Content-Length of 13.7Mb in the HTTP response |
| 00:08.19 | Iriel | b) Because your ISP's cache cant handle big files either |
| 00:08.24 | Legorol | hmm |
| 00:08.41 | Legorol | and finally, why does IE get 13.7 when going via the tunnel? |
| 00:08.56 | Iriel | c) Because IE' being the piece of crap that it is, can't handle the length |
| 00:09.00 | Legorol | as a piece of software, i am sure it can handle the size, since other people could download with it |
| 00:09.07 | Iriel | FF at least tells you the right size, even though it fails to download it properly |
| 00:09.09 | Kirkburn | I suggest torrenting it |
| 00:09.20 | Legorol | I don't beleive that MS's browser would fail to download from MS's site |
| 00:09.23 | Kirkburn | Which version of IE btw? |
| 00:09.26 | Legorol | 6 |
| 00:09.43 | Iriel | You've obviously not been paying attention to microsoft for the last decard then |
| 00:09.45 | Iriel | decade, even |
| 00:10.09 | Kirkburn | Are you using the MS downloader app then? |
| 00:10.13 | Legorol | no |
| 00:10.19 | Legorol | that one doesn't work either |
| 00:10.25 | Legorol | but that could be because of my ISP, again |
| 00:10.37 | Legorol | i can try and force the MS downloader app via the tunnel |
| 00:10.49 | Legorol | when i say "download with IE", i am referring to feeding the direct download link to IE |
| 00:11.40 | Kirkburn | Who is your ISP btw? |
| 00:12.30 | Legorol | NTL |
| 00:12.40 | Legorol | not that it will mean much to you, I'm in the UK |
| 00:12.46 | Kirkburn | Thought so (well, it's what your 'info' thingy said) |
| 00:12.46 | Legorol | it's one of the bigger telecom companies |
| 00:13.11 | Kirkburn | I'm english, and so's Iriel (even if he abandoned us) |
| 00:13.17 | Legorol | oh, you are, cool |
| 00:13.24 | Legorol | i know about Iriel's british ancestry ;_) |
| 00:14.00 | Kirkburn | I would be surprised if NTL have that problem :/ |
| 00:14.39 | Legorol | but they do |
| 00:14.48 | Legorol | i already had some arguing with them about their stealth-caching of HTTP |
| 00:14.53 | Legorol | but i will do some shouting this time |
| 00:14.59 | Legorol | ok, new result: |
| 00:15.04 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 00:15.13 | Legorol | if i force the MS suggested download manager (Akamai thingy) through the ssh tunnel, it does get 4 gig |
| 00:15.15 | Iriel | 4GB == 32 bits |
| 00:15.38 | Iriel | That's why everything has such a problem |
| 00:15.46 | Legorol | Ok, comprehensive summary: |
| 00:15.50 | Legorol | via ssh tunnel: |
| 00:15.52 | Legorol | - IE doesn't work |
| 00:15.58 | Legorol | - Akamai download manager works |
| 00:16.03 | Legorol | - my other manager works |
| 00:16.06 | Legorol | without ssh tunnel: |
| 00:16.08 | Legorol | none of them work |
| 00:16.13 | Kirkburn | I think you're right |
| 00:16.22 | Kirkburn | All the posters with the problem are from the UK |
| 00:16.39 | Kirkburn | See this thread ... http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=468253 |
| 00:16.44 | Legorol | well it seems to be a combination of one or more of: ISP, Akamai and/or IE |
| 00:17.02 | Legorol | the fact that IE doesn't work even via the tunnel means it's not 100% the ISP's fault |
| 00:17.20 | Iriel | I think we're pretty sure Akamai is fine |
| 00:17.39 | Iriel | It's that both IE and your ISP's "transparent *cough* proxy" are broken. |
| 00:17.51 | Kirkburn | (On top of that, Neowin is not a UK-only website) |
| 00:18.05 | Iriel | In fairness, few people in their right minds put a 4.1GB file as a single download |
| 00:18.28 | Iriel | Single HTTP download, that is |
| 00:19.00 | Kirkburn | Torrent it, I say |
| 00:19.11 | Legorol | MS are idiot for having such a large download |
| 00:19.16 | Legorol | and it not working with IE is just plain stupid |
| 00:19.27 | Iriel | amusing though, in its own special way |
| 00:19.33 | SinePi | s/for having.*// |
| 00:19.42 | Kirkburn | Well, when IE6 came out, no-one even thought to have 4.1gig files |
| 00:19.46 | Legorol | admittedly no one in their right mind should download 4 gigs with a browser |
| 00:19.56 | Legorol | yay for weird size limitations! |
| 00:20.15 | Legorol | hard disk sizes, number of digits in a year (y2k), RAM sizes, you name it, we got it |
| 00:20.20 | Kirkburn | Same goes for FAT and hd size limitations |
| 00:20.25 | Legorol | i am just about fed up with people using too few bits for things :) |
| 00:20.46 | Iriel | It's not about using too few bits at all |
| 00:20.51 | Iriel | it's about using the wrong tool for the job |
| 00:20.55 | Iriel | you dont use FAT for massive files |
| 00:20.59 | Legorol | i'm going to petition slouken to make Lua use 256-bit floats, and 256-bit unsigned ints for bitlib |
| 00:21.07 | Legorol | then again, i shouldn't be so shortsighted |
| 00:21.14 | Legorol | maybe i should ask for 1024 bits |
| 00:21.15 | Kirkburn | I know the starter version of Vista will be severly crippled in that respect |
| 00:21.24 | Iriel | just like you dont use plastic fast food knives to carve raw meat |
| 00:21.32 | Legorol | Iriel: what does this problem have to do with FAT? |
| 00:21.41 | Iriel | FAT cant' handle 4GB files either |
| 00:21.48 | Legorol | yeah, but that's not relevant for me here |
| 00:21.55 | Kirkburn | Ah, but it could have been :P |
| 00:22.11 | Legorol | could have been, yes |
| 00:22.31 | Legorol | but what annoys me now is that no matter what tool i pick, even if i pick the correct one, i can't download the damned thing |
| 00:22.33 | Legorol | thanks to my ISP |
| 00:22.46 | Legorol | and i really liked NTL so far.. |
| 00:22.48 | Iriel | Unless you find either (1) a site that's split it into 2 downloads or |
| 00:22.50 | Legorol | they have excellent tech support |
| 00:22.51 | Iriel | (B) a torrent |
| 00:23.02 | Legorol | i am not happy downloading my OS from 3rd party source, sorry :( |
| 00:23.04 | Legorol | too paranoid |
| 00:23.06 | Kirkburn | I seem to recall suggesting B a couple of times |
| 00:23.14 | Iriel | Sudden change from numbers to letters an accident, sorry |
| 00:23.24 | Kirkburn | Check the hash when it's done? |
| 00:23.29 | Legorol | actually i like one thing about my ISP's tech support |
| 00:23.35 | Legorol | they have several "levels" |
| 00:23.50 | Legorol | if the person you initially talk to can't help you (that's level 1), they pass you on to level 2 |
| 00:23.58 | Legorol | the higher level you get to, the more technical knowledge the person has |
| 00:24.04 | Iriel | Pretty much all large tech support organizations work that way |
| 00:24.06 | Legorol | you can start having intelligent conversations at about level 3 |
| 00:24.14 | Legorol | well this was the first one where i had that.. |
| 00:24.15 | Iriel | the real question is where you start finding someone with a clue |
| 00:24.29 | Legorol | so nowadays i just ask straight for level 3 when i phone them :) |
| 00:24.44 | Iriel | Hm, any place i've dealt with that didn't have that was usually BETTER because everyone had a clue |
| 00:25.07 | Legorol | any place i had come in contact with over the phone that didn't have levels had only one level, and they knew squat :( |
| 00:25.15 | Legorol | and that includes Blizz's phone tech support :/ |
| 00:25.21 | Kirkburn | I see a Vista x64 torrent on isohunt |
| 00:25.58 | Legorol | at one point, Blizz Europe messed up the download of the ELPs for those without p2p access |
| 00:26.15 | Legorol | it's a problem i have seen before, because they did it back during the European Beta too, so I knew what and why they messed up |
| 00:26.23 | Legorol | i phoned up their tech support, and tried to explain |
| 00:26.24 | Kirkburn | ELPs? |
| 00:26.26 | Legorol | no luck |
| 00:26.31 | Legorol | European Language Pack |
| 00:26.36 | Kirkburn | ah yeah |
| 00:26.51 | Legorol | back when ELPs were released, the way blizz downloader worked was that if you disabled p2p, |
| 00:27.04 | Legorol | it would get the file from Blizz's server via HTTP, in chunks of 512k i think |
| 00:27.27 | Legorol | one thing Blizz did during the EU Beta is that one of the chunks on their server was corrupt |
| 00:27.41 | Legorol | so anyone trying to get the client without p2p would get stuck at exactly 82% |
| 00:27.52 | Legorol | you might even recall the amount of posts about this on the tech support forum during the Beta |
| 00:28.02 | Legorol | it was the infamous "stuck at 82%" issue |
| 00:28.21 | Legorol | the cause of that one was a corrupt chunk on the server |
| 00:28.24 | Kirkburn | lol, I wasn't around that far back |
| 00:28.33 | Legorol | oki |
| 00:28.49 | Legorol | well anyway, they did the exact same thing with the ELPs |
| 00:28.54 | Legorol | corrupt chunk |
| 00:29.06 | Legorol | but i had absolutely no luck with the tech support person on the phone |
| 00:29.11 | Kirkburn | Actually, well, I'm not sure ... I could have been. Learning about WoW was just a haze of excitement and anticipation |
| 00:29.17 | Legorol | hehe |
| 00:29.42 | Legorol | hm, here's a question: |
| 00:29.43 | Kirkburn | I remember finishing Uni at lunchtime and running into town to find any copy anywhere |
| 00:29.49 | Legorol | how can i snoop on packets travelling via an ssh tunnel? |
| 00:29.59 | Legorol | i have control over both ends of the tunnel, just not sure how to snoop on it |
| 00:30.15 | Legorol | Kirkburn: was that on release day? |
| 00:30.17 | Kirkburn | They offered me the collector's edition - oh how I wish I'd got that instead :( |
| 00:30.18 | Legorol | or later |
| 00:30.24 | Kirkburn | Yeah, release day |
| 00:30.33 | Kirkburn | Northshire was great fun :D |
| 00:30.36 | Legorol | you mean they were actually seling CE's in the shops? |
| 00:30.41 | Legorol | i thought that was just a legend.. |
| 00:30.46 | Kirkburn | Under the desk in Game, yeah |
| 00:31.03 | Kirkburn | The person who went into the shop after me got one - he might have reserved it though |
| 00:31.08 | Legorol | the official pre-order campaign for CE's was insane |
| 00:31.17 | Legorol | you had literally a 10-hour window to per-order yoru copy of CE |
| 00:31.32 | Kirkburn | lol, I remember that! |
| 00:31.52 | Legorol | by the evening of the day they made them available online, they were all sold out |
| 00:31.54 | Kirkburn | I didn't make up my mind quickly enough :/ |
| 00:32.09 | Kirkburn | You were in the beta then? |
| 00:32.10 | Legorol | well luckily i was on my toes and was checking for pre-orders daily |
| 00:32.17 | Legorol | only in the public beta |
| 00:32.37 | Legorol | didn't get into closed one, despite the number of applications *cough* me, my entire family, including grandparents, sent in |
| 00:33.14 | Legorol | grandparents, they didn't even have a computer back then, but they were so keen on WoW they signed up for the beta ;-) |
| 00:33.29 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 00:33.43 | Legorol | but thanks to pre-order, i got my WoW before the servers went live |
| 00:33.52 | Legorol | i was in the initial mad rush to create account at midnight |
| 00:33.53 | Legorol | that was fun |
| 00:34.17 | Kirkburn | Coolness ... Amazon messed me up on that. They kept pushing back my delivery date so I cancelled with them |
| 00:34.30 | Legorol | yah i went with the official pre-order campaign |
| 00:34.33 | Kirkburn | Where did you go first then? |
| 00:34.35 | Legorol | figured that they can't screw it up |
| 00:34.45 | Legorol | i didn't go anywhere until the official campaign |
| 00:34.52 | Legorol | then i went to the site that was officially linked to Blizzard |
| 00:34.57 | Kirkburn | In the game, first login |
| 00:35.39 | Legorol | ah right |
| 00:35.41 | Kirkburn | My first char became my main ... I didn't even want to choose a warlock, thus I never named him Kirkburn :) |
| 00:35.51 | Legorol | hehe, i am in similar sort of situation |
| 00:35.55 | Legorol | my first char was Legorol |
| 00:35.58 | Legorol | made it to secure the name |
| 00:36.13 | Legorol | it's a warrior, because that's a class i haven't tried yet during the beta |
| 00:36.19 | Legorol | so figured heck, i'll see what it's like |
| 00:36.32 | Legorol | currently it's my highest level char, soon to reach 60, and i don't like warrior :/ |
| 00:36.41 | Kirkburn | Ooh, you've yet to reach 60? |
| 00:36.45 | Legorol | yup |
| 00:36.58 | Legorol | Legorol has a /played time of 28 days |
| 00:36.58 | Kirkburn | Leveling alts or just taking in the sights? |
| 00:37.01 | Legorol | and is a proud lvl 51 |
| 00:37.19 | Legorol | those two, and lot of /played accrued by sitting around typing /reloadui :) |
| 00:37.32 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 00:37.39 | Legorol | at periods, i'd say i was coding 80% of time and playing 20% |
| 00:37.52 | Legorol | nowadays i decided i will go for that 60 |
| 00:38.00 | Kirkburn | Took me 18 days myself ... I had a competition going with my friends |
| 00:38.01 | Legorol | and since Legorol is highest at the moment, i've started focusing on him |
| 00:38.03 | Iriel | I remember going into work late to pick my copies of WoW up at the store |
| 00:38.18 | Legorol | Iriel late for work? outrageous! |
| 00:38.46 | Legorol | i do have fair few alts |
| 00:38.51 | Legorol | i get too bored just playing one char |
| 00:38.57 | Legorol | i have chars on pve, pvp, rp, rp-pvp |
| 00:39.10 | Kirkburn | All because of me, my friends all play .. although one stopped, cancelled his account and deleted his chars, the bastard. I'm determined to get him back in come BC... |
| 00:39.17 | Legorol | plus i waste inordinate times on little "projects" of my own |
| 00:39.28 | Kirkburn | I'm only on PvE, but I keep meaning to try an RP server |
| 00:39.30 | Iriel | why would ANYONE delete their chararacters? |
| 00:39.41 | Kirkburn | He did it twice, too |
| 00:39.42 | Legorol | because we are only human? |
| 00:39.51 | Kirkburn | His bro did the same :/ |
| 00:39.56 | Legorol | actually, Iriel, if you have used up your 10 slots per realm |
| 00:39.59 | Legorol | and you need free slot |
| 00:40.01 | Kirkburn | He was getting a bit too 'into' it |
| 00:40.05 | Iriel | I'm not talking about that tho |
| 00:40.11 | Iriel | I'm talking about the delete+cancel thing |
| 00:40.15 | Legorol | i can also perceive two other reasons: |
| 00:40.17 | Iriel | Sure, cancel, but why delete? |
| 00:40.19 | Legorol | 1) impulsive |
| 00:40.24 | Legorol | 2) to remove temptation |
| 00:40.33 | Legorol | if you want to quit an addiction, a good start is to destroy the goods |
| 00:40.35 | Kirkburn | I think those were why |
| 00:40.48 | Iriel | I would imagine you'd just make it worse because next time around you'll have to get up to 60 again |
| 00:40.50 | Kirkburn | Silly though, he could have just cancelled and uninstalled |
| 00:41.06 | Legorol | speaking of uninstall.. |
| 00:41.12 | Kirkburn | I have a plan though ... "ooh, look how cool the Draenei/Blood Elves are!" |
| 00:41.23 | Legorol | i reinstalled WoW recently, and for some reason the retail-to-1.10 patch kept failing |
| 00:41.27 | Legorol | in different places each time |
| 00:41.34 | Legorol | and worked on the 4th time or so |
| 00:41.38 | Legorol | for no apparent reason whatsoever |
| 00:41.50 | Legorol | all the relevant hardware pieces involved are in good condition |
| 00:41.55 | Legorol | checksums verified etc. |
| 00:42.10 | Kirkburn | What type of error? |
| 00:42.22 | Legorol | not much detail, just patch failed |
| 00:42.28 | Legorol | i think complained about some corrupt file |
| 00:42.37 | Legorol | btw, the blizz repair tool seems utterly useless |
| 00:42.41 | Iriel | hm, bad ram? overclocked CPU? |
| 00:42.50 | Legorol | not likely, and nope |
| 00:42.57 | Kirkburn | heh ... I remember when patches would fail because it didn't exist |
| 00:43.14 | Legorol | i had really bad experiences with blizz repair tool |
| 00:43.26 | Legorol | it would claim tons of files corrupt on a fine install |
| 00:43.43 | Kirkburn | (irony ... patching fails because the repair util is missing) |
| 00:43.50 | Legorol | ah, yeah, that one.. |
| 00:43.54 | Legorol | fortunately i haven't had that |
| 00:44.18 | Kirkburn | Very strange |
| 00:44.34 | Legorol | actually, i am not sure how you would go about deliberately engineering a scenario like that |
| 00:44.38 | AnduinLothar | my favorite is it not letting me patch because i renamed the background downloader and it can't find it |
| 00:44.40 | Legorol | short of deleting the repair utility manually |
| 00:44.44 | Kirkburn | You got around it by doing stepped updates U guess? |
| 00:44.49 | Kirkburn | s/U/I/ |
| 00:45.04 | Legorol | what do you mean by stepped updates? |
| 00:45.04 | Kirkburn | lol AnduinLothar |
| 00:45.14 | Legorol | if you reinstall, you need to go straight from retail to 1.10 |
| 00:45.20 | Legorol | you don't get another choice |
| 00:45.21 | Kirkburn | 1.8 -> 1.9 -> 1.10 |
| 00:45.31 | Legorol | nah, you can't do that |
| 00:45.33 | Iriel | you'd need to have all of those patch files saved somewhere |
| 00:45.34 | Kirkburn | Well, unless you download the small patches |
| 00:45.36 | Iriel | you CAN do that |
| 00:45.38 | Legorol | even if you do the full 1.8 patch, |
| 00:45.41 | Iriel | but it's very difficult |
| 00:45.44 | AnduinLothar | YOU don't get another choice. i have all the patches from beta to 1.11 |
| 00:45.58 | AnduinLothar | mac versions of course |
| 00:46.01 | Legorol | hmmm.. but some of them are not downloaded via a downloader |
| 00:46.02 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 00:46.05 | Legorol | so i wasn't able to save those |
| 00:46.10 | Legorol | e.g. some minor patches |
| 00:46.14 | Iriel | They all end up in your wow directory dont they? |
| 00:46.14 | AnduinLothar | course then, the mac vers doesn't even have a repair utility |
| 00:46.16 | Legorol | sometimes they come with a downloader, but sometimes not |
| 00:46.20 | Legorol | Iriel: nope |
| 00:46.28 | Legorol | some minor patches vanish after the patching is complete |
| 00:46.43 | Iriel | but before you click 'okay' the file is there |
| 00:46.47 | Iriel | ripe for the picking |
| 00:46.51 | AnduinLothar | the next major patch usually contains the previous minor patch |
| 00:46.56 | Kirkburn | He's right, I've got no 1.9.3->1.9.4 |
| 00:47.14 | Iriel | or Finished, or whatever the final click is |
| 00:47.19 | Legorol | Iriel: yes, technically an mpq is there that you could make a copy of |
| 00:47.29 | Legorol | however, i am unsure as to how you'd force WoW to make use of it |
| 00:47.41 | Legorol | for patches that remain in the WoW folder as an exe, yes you can run them later |
| 00:47.42 | Kirkburn | Well anyway ... you got it sorted though, obviously? |
| 00:47.45 | Iriel | I meant an exe |
| 00:47.51 | Legorol | but that's what i am saying.. |
| 00:47.56 | Legorol | for some minor patches, there is NO exe |
| 00:48.04 | Legorol | only an mpq |
| 00:48.05 | Iriel | I'm pretty sure it's there, until you click 'Finished' |
| 00:48.08 | Iriel | and then it's removed |
| 00:48.18 | Iriel | But I could be mistaken |
| 00:48.18 | Kirkburn | This is true, the tiny ones just downloaded straight from the servers |
| 00:48.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:48.28 | Legorol | ok i guess Iriel is right, |
| 00:48.39 | Legorol | one could save the mpq file and the BNUpdate.exe thing that happens to be there at the time |
| 00:49.18 | Kirkburn | Eventually WoW and Steam is gonna take over the hd in this poor laptop :/ |
| 00:49.20 | Legorol | bearing in mind that there are a gazillion versions of BNupdate, so you'd have to make sure you save the right one with each mpq |
| 00:49.31 | Kirkburn | They already take up over a third of the drive |
| 00:50.39 | Kirkburn | So, what was the beta like? |
| 00:50.49 | Kirkburn | (at all) |
| 00:52.13 | Legorol | the open beta was no different than the current game |
| 00:52.23 | Legorol | lots of people on about 10 realms |
| 00:52.39 | Legorol | initial rush, then levels get spread out |
| 00:52.44 | AnduinLothar | it's a lot less laggy now tho, despite complaints |
| 00:53.05 | AnduinLothar | the stress tests 1 and 2 were abysmally laggy |
| 00:53.09 | Legorol | dunno about US, but in EU i had no lag problems ever in beta |
| 00:53.28 | Legorol | but that's the open beta |
| 00:53.47 | Kirkburn | The EU open beta was basically the same client as the US release, no? |
| 00:54.08 | Legorol | no, the EU beta was 1.1.2 |
| 00:54.13 | Legorol | open beta that is |
| 00:54.17 | Legorol | US release is 1.0.0 |
| 00:54.21 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, yeah ... if you could go back in time people would probably notice the difference |
| 00:54.32 | Legorol | by the time EU open beta rolled around, US was up to 1.1.2, so they used that |
| 00:54.46 | Kirkburn | Ah yeah ... I mean it wasn't really 'beta', except for the servers |
| 00:54.56 | Legorol | yup |
| 00:55.02 | Legorol | because the game was already sold in the US |
| 00:55.11 | AnduinLothar | that and pallies owned face in the betas |
| 00:55.17 | Legorol | yup :) |
| 00:55.23 | AnduinLothar | till they got nerfed in the first patch, lol |
| 00:55.24 | Legorol | i remember that |
| 00:55.26 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 00:55.37 | Legorol | i played in US stress test, that was fun |
| 00:55.48 | Legorol | that was my first WoW experience |
| 00:55.57 | Legorol | i finally got to try out AddOns I wrote :) |
| 00:56.06 | Legorol | (yes I wrote AddOns before I had WoW) |
| 00:56.09 | AnduinLothar | after the pally hit 200 and got his hammer ti was good game |
| 00:56.15 | AnduinLothar | 20* |
| 00:56.41 | Kirkburn | Damn I was gonna say ... they really nerfed the levels :P |
| 00:56.46 | Legorol | actually i was learning XML and Lua by getting hold of US client, and just modding Glue |
| 00:56.52 | Legorol | not having an account to log in with |
| 00:56.54 | Legorol | that was fun |
| 00:57.12 | Legorol | those were the days when you could still mod Glue... |
| 00:57.14 | Legorol | *sigh* |
| 00:57.27 | AnduinLothar | i wasn't that hardcore. I didn't get into coding til after i hit 60 and made a leet translator for xfaction comm |
| 00:57.38 | Legorol | you weren't the only one ;-) |
| 00:57.48 | Legorol | the very first AddOn I did (when i had no WoW) was a translator |
| 00:57.53 | Legorol | vjeux had one too |
| 00:58.03 | AnduinLothar | xfaction? |
| 00:58.05 | Legorol | yup |
| 00:58.10 | AnduinLothar | cool |
| 00:58.16 | Legorol | i was asking people in #cosmostesters to try it for me |
| 00:58.21 | Legorol | noone was willing though :) |
| 00:58.36 | Legorol | then i got to try it during US stress, and it actually worked so i was happy |
| 00:58.42 | Legorol | i had a very crap system for encoding though |
| 00:58.49 | Legorol | later AddOns were much better |
| 00:59.09 | AnduinLothar | yeah, till we made UT and there were rummors of people getting banned |
| 00:59.37 | Legorol | the thing is, my original one still works |
| 00:59.50 | Legorol | but now it's specifically against the ToU |
| 01:00.07 | AnduinLothar | which was that? |
| 01:00.10 | Legorol | my encoding was so crappy it survived the nerf |
| 01:00.25 | Legorol | it had no name |
| 01:00.31 | Legorol | it was just a hack to ChatFrame.lua |
| 01:00.35 | AnduinLothar | how so? |
| 01:00.54 | Legorol | i was using the letter A and spaces to encode text |
| 01:01.05 | AnduinLothar | lol, ownage |
| 01:01.08 | Legorol | since word-length is not changed during garbling, this still works |
| 01:01.16 | AnduinLothar | aye |
| 01:01.24 | AnduinLothar | can't make long msgs tho |
| 01:01.33 | Legorol | it can split it up |
| 01:01.42 | Legorol | in principle, although i never coded that up |
| 01:01.43 | AnduinLothar | :) haxors |
| 01:01.55 | Legorol | i never made it into a proper addon |
| 01:02.00 | Legorol | since this was before addons even existed |
| 01:02.11 | Legorol | i still have a copy of a hacked ChatFrame.lua somewhere with the code |
| 01:02.23 | Legorol | aaaaah, the history of wow modding... |
| 01:02.34 | Legorol | if i consider the fact that today you can't even mod ChatFrame.lua |
| 01:02.45 | Legorol | back in the days, that was THE way to mod ;_) |
| 01:03.12 | Legorol | speaking of which, i have a 100 Kb or so Zip file called Cosmos 1.0 |
| 01:03.15 | Legorol | it's pretty nostalgic |
| 01:03.23 | Legorol | it's about 10 files that go in FrameXML |
| 01:04.04 | AnduinLothar | most of those survived until i rewrote them |
| 01:04.32 | Legorol | ah, i remember that yeah |
| 01:04.48 | Legorol | the joy when the last framexml mod was gone |
| 01:06.56 | Cairenn | hated those, what a complete pita for user support :p |
| 01:07.12 | Legorol | hehe |
| 01:07.26 | Legorol | but at least back then those who wanted ui mods had some clue |
| 01:07.44 | Legorol | nowadays, user support is about "mmm so how do i unzip a file into my interface\addons\interface\interface folder"? |
| 01:07.54 | Cairenn | it was those gd framexml mods that led to the "stress relief" threads |
| 01:07.57 | AnduinLothar | what's a zip? |
| 01:08.01 | Cairenn | mostly |
| 01:08.04 | Legorol | the thing on your pants, AnduinLothar |
| 01:08.16 | Legorol | Cairenn: aah, nice bit of history |
| 01:08.28 | Legorol | wow modding has come such a long way.. |
| 01:08.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:08.35 | Legorol | it's very nice to see it has evolved with the game |
| 01:08.48 | Legorol | not just the support for it from Blizz's side, but the community and its acceptance by players |
| 01:09.04 | Cairenn | lol, remember the very first stress relief thread? that's when I kidnapped slouken, and we all discovered he was a real human and had a great sense of humour |
| 01:09.16 | Legorol | i remember that, yes |
| 01:09.18 | Legorol | that was fun |
| 01:09.29 | Legorol | i also find it nice how Blizzard incorporates those features into the game that turn out to be "must-have" addons |
| 01:09.42 | Legorol | i think this is a good way of giving power to users |
| 01:10.00 | Legorol | i hear many people grumble that Blizz is freeriding the community, and steals ideas etc. etc. |
| 01:10.06 | Legorol | i think the opposite, i think it's rather nice |
| 01:10.11 | Legorol | we can lead the way, show what we want |
| 01:10.15 | Legorol | and then the company follows |
| 01:14.18 | Cide- | yeah, I agree |
| 01:15.03 | Cide- | while I can find it somewhat frustrating (for example, adding the two "main" ctra features), I definitely see it as a good thing overall |
| 01:15.31 | Cide- | and for what it's worth, I guess it also serves as a limited form of recognition |
| 01:16.17 | Cairenn | and depending on just how "wholesale" they lift it, they do give actual recognition within the mod itself ... *points at Iriel's name in one part* |
| 01:16.18 | AnduinLothar | too bad they don't actually say that you inspired it |
| 01:16.37 | Cide- | yep, Cairenn |
| 01:16.42 | Cide- | they're definitely not thieves :) |
| 01:17.04 | Cide- | if they incorporate an idea, they either do their own version of it, or give credit appropriately |
| 01:17.35 | Legorol | i am extremely happy with the new ready check, target of target etc. |
| 01:18.06 | Cide- | I love the new ready check |
| 01:18.26 | Kirkburn | Stress relief thread?? |
| 01:18.27 | Cide- | though I was hoping they'd add an event for clicking READY too |
| 01:18.44 | Legorol | to be honest, despite what people whine about on the forums, I think Blizzard is very open and listens to the community |
| 01:18.52 | Legorol | yes often they have a specific game design and they force it through |
| 01:18.54 | Cide- | oh, definitely |
| 01:18.59 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 01:19.03 | Legorol | but on the UI front, they are very open |
| 01:19.19 | Legorol | i am sure that slouken deserves more cookies than he lets it known on the forums ;-) |
| 01:19.26 | Miravlix_ | Slouken is open |
| 01:19.28 | Cairenn | he does |
| 01:19.29 | Legorol | i don't know how much say he has in UI design decisions |
| 01:19.39 | Cide- | it's just that it's human nature to bitch and whine when things are wrong, and be silent when they're fine |
| 01:19.52 | Miravlix_ | I think this is a case of the man making the difference not a company policy |
| 01:19.55 | Legorol | but if he has anything to do with features getting incorporated (which i wouldn't be surprised if he did), then cookies for him |
| 01:20.02 | Cide- | so the forums tend to give a pretty negative view of things :) |
| 01:20.21 | Legorol | i think Blizz as a company is not as inhuman as people love to paint on the forums |
| 01:20.37 | Legorol | except when they nerf AutoTravel |
| 01:20.40 | Legorol | grrrr |
| 01:20.42 | Cide- | haha |
| 01:20.53 | Cairenn | lol |
| 01:20.55 | Legorol | those inhuman, hearless, money-grabbing greedy folks |
| 01:21.06 | Legorol | they want me to spend more time in-game, that's what it is, so they get more of my ... |
| 01:21.10 | Legorol | .. ehm... |
| 01:21.11 | Legorol | wait a mo |
| 01:21.17 | Legorol | i pay a fixed subscription fee, d'oh |
| 01:21.18 | Miravlix_ | My first 6 months of addon development doesn't exist due to Blizzard API changes |
| 01:21.25 | Miravlix_ | It all just fizzled |
| 01:21.34 | Legorol | there there, have a cooki |
| 01:21.44 | Cide- | even though I can agree that it can be annoying to run at times, their design decision is still 100% right |
| 01:21.49 | Cide- | automation in general = bad |
| 01:21.55 | Legorol | aye |
| 01:21.56 | Cairenn | Legorol: are you suffering the same problem as that thread the other |
| 01:22.05 | Legorol | i agree that the problem with AT was that it allowed you to go afk yet keep traveling |
| 01:22.26 | Legorol | i think a solution where you have to stay non-afk (e.g. it stops if you alt+tab or are inactive) but still lets you walk is fine |
| 01:22.32 | Legorol | so that you can e.g. chat in guild |
| 01:22.58 | Legorol | i did contemplate at some point reworking AT so that it's driven by the keypresses you use to type in the chat box |
| 01:23.14 | Legorol | so as long as you keep typing and chatting, it works ;-) |
| 01:24.24 | Cide- | haha, that would be... interesting |
| 01:25.02 | Legorol | it would need some trickery, but i think it's doable |
| 01:25.12 | Legorol | when chat box opens, take away the focus, |
| 01:25.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 01:25.28 | Legorol | feed all keypresses through a custom frame |
| 01:25.40 | Legorol | move AT, and add each letter to the chatbox using SetText say |
| 01:26.15 | Iriel | Except that movement's protected now |
| 01:26.34 | Iriel | that'd be a bit of a damper on 'think it's doable' |
| 01:26.34 | Legorol | darn, i forgot about that |
| 01:26.38 | Legorol | this idea was back when movement wasn't protected yet |
| 01:26.49 | Legorol | oh wait, wouldn't i be able to rebind movement dyanically? |
| 01:27.00 | Legorol | hm no |
| 01:27.03 | Iriel | You'd lose your keypresses though |
| 01:27.11 | Legorol | darn |
| 01:27.24 | Legorol | i guess i just have to resume my attempts at finding a hole in the taint |
| 01:27.25 | Legorol | :) |
| 01:27.31 | Iriel | though perhaps there's some OnKeyDown trickery you could use |
| 01:27.52 | Legorol | nah, if you have an OnKeyDown, bindings don't trigger |
| 01:28.18 | Legorol | the problem though is that you don't know what key will be pressed next |
| 01:28.26 | Legorol | so you don't know which one to bind to the movement you want next |
| 01:28.35 | Iriel | Well, you'd use space |
| 01:28.43 | Legorol | not frequent enough |
| 01:28.45 | Iriel | I dont think that'd be much of a problem for anyone who was TALKING 8-) |
| 01:28.50 | Iriel | Space and enter? |
| 01:29.04 | Iriel | Much of the time during a conversation most of the people are silent anyway |
| 01:29.48 | Legorol | i'm not happy they nerfed the right-click casting though |
| 01:29.54 | Legorol | no more fast cast, yet again |
| 01:30.06 | Legorol | as in you can fast-cast |
| 01:30.16 | Legorol | but you can't loot and recast when fishing with one press |
| 01:30.23 | Legorol | s/press/click |
| 01:32.54 | Legorol | you know how a 3rd party app isn't allowed to interact with WoW |
| 01:32.58 | Legorol | but what about Windows? |
| 01:33.07 | Kirkburn | WoW, but crazy anime cartoon action kinda thing! Yeah! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvu1KK1DPQ |
| 01:33.20 | Legorol | because it takes a 3 line Windows script to feed keypresses to WoW... ;-) |
| 01:33.30 | Iriel | And that script is a 3rd party app |
| 01:33.41 | Legorol | no, that script is scripting Windows |
| 01:33.47 | Legorol | Windows is the app that's interacting with WoW |
| 01:33.50 | Iriel | .. and it's a 3rd party app |
| 01:34.02 | Iriel | that's a lame attempt and you know it |
| 01:34.06 | Legorol | hehe :) |
| 01:34.15 | Legorol | but so are all the 3rd party video drivers |
| 01:34.30 | Legorol | heck there are millions of 3rd party apps interacting with WoW when it runs |
| 01:34.45 | Iriel | indeed there are |
| 01:34.52 | Legorol | so we are all violating the ToU |
| 01:34.54 | Legorol | oh noeees |
| 01:34.55 | Iriel | blizzard can declare any of them a violation |
| 01:35.06 | Legorol | that one is very guilty! |
| 01:35.11 | Legorol | it scans the binary |
| 01:35.13 | wereHamster | who cares if it's allowed or not if they won't find out ;) |
| 01:35.46 | Legorol | Iriel, on a serious note |
| 01:36.07 | Legorol | fortunately Blizzard themselves have now recognized how grey these lines previously thought as clearcut could be |
| 01:36.22 | Legorol | so they have made statements about what is considered unaccaptable behaviour |
| 01:36.35 | Iriel | I doubt they ever though it was that clearcut |
| 01:36.38 | Legorol | (some blue posts about acceptable/unaccaptable uses of G15 and the likes) |
| 01:36.46 | Iriel | but i've yet to see a real "grey area" question |
| 01:36.51 | Kirkburn | Wait, isn't that two different similies ... grey and clearcut? Surely grey and black/white ... or clearcut and fuzzy |
| 01:37.03 | Legorol | what i am trying to say is that most questions you can answer if you ask your concience |
| 01:37.04 | Iriel | Anyone with half an ounce of common sense can answer the questions |
| 01:37.11 | Legorol | but the declarations in the ToU are nowhere near enough |
| 01:37.35 | Legorol | i do think the G15 was a grey area initially |
| 01:37.54 | Iriel | the ToU establishes a tone, and provides a generic enough mechanism to penalize those who violate the sprit of the agreement |
| 01:37.55 | Legorol | especially because Blizzard said it's fine to use |
| 01:38.18 | Legorol | yes i understand the ToU is not allmighty, and it makes the intentions fairly clear |
| 01:38.19 | Iriel | I'm typing on a G15 right now, I dont think there's ANY question on whether a G15 is fine to use |
| 01:38.24 | Iriel | nor has there ever been |
| 01:38.27 | Kirkburn | The G15 is fine to use, but it's *how* you use it |
| 01:38.36 | Legorol | ok Kirkburn is right |
| 01:38.40 | Iriel | The question is whether complex macros with time delays are allowabe via any means |
| 01:38.49 | Legorol | basically people wanted more firm guidelines about what's acceptable witha G15 and what's not |
| 01:38.52 | Iriel | My G15 has none of these features |
| 01:38.55 | Legorol | and Blizz themselves changed their stance |
| 01:38.59 | Iriel | The Windows Drivers have all of the features in question |
| 01:39.06 | Legorol | they initially came out and said using G15's functions is fine |
| 01:39.14 | Legorol | later they said actually, macroing it is not fine |
| 01:39.33 | Legorol | look, i am not talking about me here, because i have at least half a brain |
| 01:39.41 | Kirkburn | Well, they probably didn't realise the impact |
| 01:40.21 | Iriel | I'm not referring to you here either, but even the general idea that blizzard needed to say something because they iddn't think abotu it first is, i feel flawed |
| 01:40.23 | Kirkburn | Blizzard doesn't act as a single unit, so there's bureacracy to take decisions and make something policy |
| 01:40.24 | Legorol | there are enough people on the forums who aren't clear at all about what's fine and what isn't |
| 01:40.31 | Legorol | and you can't tell them just use your common sense |
| 01:40.35 | Iriel | If blizzard underestimated anything, it's the beligerance and sheer stupidity of their userbase |
| 01:40.35 | Legorol | the best example is model modding |
| 01:40.57 | Kirkburn | True, the community has to police itself |
| 01:41.01 | Legorol | i think they are well aware of that, Iriel :) |
| 01:41.10 | Legorol | about model modding: |
| 01:41.27 | Legorol | the number of people that say: how can this possibly be bad, if it doesn't give me any advantage, since it's client side only? |
| 01:41.46 | Tem | ah, but some of it isn't just client side |
| 01:41.50 | Legorol | that's just one example of how you can't rely on people's sane judgement to decide what's acceptable and what not |
| 01:42.10 | Kirkburn | I think there should be a check to make sure the models have not been replaced |
| 01:42.12 | Legorol | that's why people ask if G15 is legal ornot, if macroing it is legal or not, etc. |
| 01:42.31 | Iriel | So steroids in sports are okay because they're client side? |
| 01:42.41 | Iriel | Really, it's a stupidly obvious question, always. |
| 01:42.51 | Kirkburn | Sure there would be people annoyed about not being able to change colours, but there has to be a line ... and changing data files is pushing it |
| 01:42.53 | Legorol | no i don't agree with it being obvious |
| 01:42.57 | Legorol | that's exactly the point i am making |
| 01:43.02 | Legorol | it's obvious to you, but not to many other people |
| 01:43.30 | Kirkburn | Many wouldn't think of the nefarious ideas people have |
| 01:43.35 | Iriel | I'm not talking making spiders into worms or something "non-imbalancing" |
| 01:43.43 | Legorol | Kirkburn: what i am saying is, if Blizzard just said "decide whether you can mod models or not based on whether you think it's in the spirit of the game or not" |
| 01:43.50 | Legorol | then lot of people would get it wrong |
| 01:43.55 | Iriel | I agree in those cases there IS a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law |
| 01:44.32 | Iriel | But there needs to be a pretty clear ruling, and I think THAT is obvious |
| 01:44.33 | Kirkburn | Yes |
| 01:44.42 | Legorol | only because Blizz came across and explicitly said: NO |
| 01:45.02 | Iriel | Oh come now, does ANYONE in this channel seriously think blizzard would EVER have said 'YES' ? |
| 01:45.06 | Legorol | i guess what i am saying is that unless Blizz is explicit about some things, there will always be people who won't find the right "spirit" |
| 01:45.14 | Legorol | no, i don't think they'd have said yes |
| 01:45.18 | Legorol | that's not what i am saying |
| 01:45.35 | Legorol | i am saying you can't rely on your playerbase making sane judgmenets about these questions |
| 01:45.42 | Iriel | I agree with that |
| 01:45.43 | Legorol | i do think that as clear guidelines as possible are necessary |
| 01:45.53 | Iriel | but that says nothing about whether blizzard HAVE to make clearer guidelines than exist |
| 01:45.59 | Legorol | and whilst the ToU is a start at defining things, it's |
| 01:46.02 | Iriel | There are people who dont take NO as NO |
| 01:46.03 | Legorol | a) too legalese |
| 01:46.06 | Kirkburn | Here's a thing ... why are the data files not locked down anyway? |
| 01:46.09 | Legorol | b) too wide |
| 01:46.15 | Iriel | so it's a somewhat pointless argument once you get past the "everyone with any common sense knows the answer" |
| 01:46.28 | Legorol | Kirkburn: we debated that a while back, it's probably for easier development |
| 01:46.33 | Iriel | Kirkburn : That is a valid question, i suspect the answer is 'performance' |
| 01:46.36 | Legorol | if the files are locked, each time you change something you have to re-sign it |
| 01:46.44 | Iriel | It would be easy enough to lock them down in release versions |
| 01:46.52 | Legorol | that's true |
| 01:46.55 | Legorol | i don't think it's performance though |
| 01:46.58 | Kirkburn | Just like UI files |
| 01:47.06 | Legorol | should be easy enough to stop the file loader loading from outside mpqs |
| 01:47.12 | Iriel | But for it to be meaningful, there would need to be some kind of code signing, and those files are very numerous (far more than the UI files) and loaded often (unlike the UI files) |
| 01:47.46 | Kirkburn | I wouldn't like them to lock the fonts folder though, so perhaps I should actually be against it :D |
| 01:47.59 | Legorol | the main issue i see is that they load files from outside the mpq |
| 01:48.09 | Legorol | even if they didnt' sign (so no performance hit) but they took that away, that'd be a start |
| 01:48.11 | Kirkburn | In fact, I personally would like them to add font options into the game |
| 01:48.34 | Legorol | Kirkburn: with the new dynamic font system, do you still need to be able to override fonts? |
| 01:48.47 | Kirkburn | For some addons, yeah |
| 01:49.01 | Kirkburn | If they define their own fonts, I have to do the file override |
| 01:49.17 | Legorol | ah, they define their own fonts, and refer to one of Blizz's one? |
| 01:49.25 | Legorol | but then you can just mod the addon |
| 01:49.42 | Kirkburn | If they refer to a Blizz font, all is fine normally ... but sometimes that decide they should refer to the font file itself |
| 01:50.03 | Legorol | mm, that'd be a badly coded addon then |
| 01:50.09 | Legorol | everyone should use the new font system |
| 01:50.32 | Kirkburn | Yup, and stop making their own styles |
| 01:50.37 | Legorol | however |
| 01:50.57 | Legorol | are there any font files that are not defined in Blizz code as a Font object? |
| 01:51.01 | Iriel | You can still get around that at runtime Kirkburn |
| 01:51.15 | Legorol | hooking? |
| 01:51.36 | Iriel | Hooking, or occasional OnEvent/OnUpdate triggered checks |
| 01:51.49 | Legorol | what do you do with font file paths hardcoded in XML? |
| 01:52.45 | Iriel | Call SetFont on the objects later |
| 01:52.45 | Legorol | (being devil's advocate here) |
| 01:52.50 | Iriel | You can enumerate all frame objects |
| 01:52.59 | Cairenn | Legorol: you? never! |
| 01:53.04 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 01:53.29 | Kirkburn | I'm intrigued by this possibility |
| 01:53.55 | Kirkburn | I could go searching for fonts? |
| 01:54.04 | Iriel | Yes |
| 01:54.08 | Iriel | it's not necessarily a great idea |
| 01:54.11 | Iriel | but it's entirely possible |
| 01:54.46 | Kirkburn | I already have ClearFont loading every time an addons loads, I don't want to be going ott with it :) |
| 01:56.17 | Kirkburn | Adding a font options screen to WoW shouldn't be that hard to code, I wouldn't have thought |
| 01:57.00 | Kirkburn | I suppose the problem is 'is it high-priority' |
| 01:57.05 | Legorol | btw, does anyone remember Blizz hinting that you'd have an 8 character limit per account, back in the beta? |
| 01:57.10 | Legorol | i remember the outcries about it.. |
| 01:57.20 | Legorol | then it all got forgotten as Blizz silently "forgot" to make this restriction |
| 01:57.25 | Kirkburn | That would have been crazy |
| 01:57.48 | Legorol | it's what they were initially saying they'd do |
| 01:58.02 | Iriel | How initially? |
| 01:59.28 | Kirkburn | Is this 'initially' with 5 stanzas and a silent q? |
| 02:00.20 | Iriel | That's one of my problems with guild wars, not being able to create as many characters as there are class combinations |
| 02:01.30 | Kirkburn | What's the limit there? |
| 02:01.58 | Iriel | 4 for a normal account, 6 if you have both games |
| 02:02.22 | Iriel | they said they'll be adding the ability to buy new 'slots' this summer |
| 02:02.28 | Iriel | To their credit, it's a non-subscription model |
| 02:02.34 | Thrae | Iriel: I need to grab you for a sec. |
| 02:02.55 | Kirkburn | Bad pun moment :) |
| 02:03.06 | Iriel | hm? |
| 02:03.21 | Thrae | Why does Button:SetWidth( Button:GetTextWidth() ) set the Button's width to half the text width? |
| 02:03.39 | Kirkburn | But how exactly does the number of slots have any bearing on costs??? |
| 02:04.04 | Thrae | If I do Button:SetWidth( Buton:GetTextWidth() * 2 ) the button is sized correctly according to the width of the text, but then the click region is messed up. |
| 02:04.15 | Kirkburn | I realise they need to make money, but that seems, well ... money for money's sake |
| 02:06.11 | Iriel | Kirkburn : Storage costs in their data center? |
| 02:06.24 | Iriel | Kirkburn : Again, it's all a one-time fee |
| 02:06.49 | Iriel | Thrae : Well, is the text on the button filling the whole button? |
| 02:07.24 | Thrae | Iriel: If I do Button:SetWidth( Button:GetTextWidth() * 2 ), then it is. If I don't multiply by 2, then it's half too small. |
| 02:07.51 | Thrae | And by "is the button filling the whole button", I assume you mean, "Is the text filling the whole button"? |
| 02:08.04 | Kirkburn | To bed! Night night all :) |
| 02:08.05 | Iriel | Thrae : Yes, sorry 8-) |
| 02:08.23 | Iriel | Thrae : You haven't scaled the text or anything have you? |
| 02:08.53 | Industrial | nn Kirkburn |
| 02:08.57 | Industrial | :< |
| 02:09.07 | Industrial | lol@quitmsg |
| 02:09.12 | Iriel | Unfortunately in 1.10 it's hard to get at the font string (unless you named it in your XML) to see |
| 02:09.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:09.23 | Thrae | Iriel: No, but I am using a fontstring to anchor it. |
| 02:09.37 | Thrae | I'm doing this on the 1.11 test server because I need fontstring anchoring. |
| 02:09.45 | Thrae | Lemme paste my code, one sec... |
| 02:12.23 | Thrae | Uhhh, pastebin.com's giving me errors, one moment... |
| 02:14.08 | Thrae | http://pastebin.ca/64047 |
| 02:14.21 | Thrae | This is that "simple GUI settings window" lib I've been working on. |
| 02:15.40 | Iriel | What does self:ReadjustSize do? |
| 02:15.55 | Thrae | Now with that, the buttons are the correct size to hold the width of the text, but their clickable regions extend 1.5x longer then they should. |
| 02:16.17 | Thrae | It readjusts the size of the main frame for additions of new elements. |
| 02:16.35 | Iriel | I would suggest trying an fs:SetFontObject(f:GetTextFontObject()) |
| 02:16.54 | Iriel | Before you call f:SetFontString |
| 02:17.04 | Iriel | it's entirely possible that the settings aren't applied until the button is rendered |
| 02:18.47 | Thrae | Iriel: Nope, same problem. |
| 02:19.29 | Iriel | If you display the text width in this module, and then again later, is it the same value? |
| 02:20.33 | Thrae | You mean if I hide and show the object? |
| 02:20.44 | AnduinLothar | just re show |
| 02:20.49 | Iriel | Just later, once it's actually on screen |
| 02:21.35 | Iriel | Also, you're calling SetWidth on the frame, I assume that ReadjustPoint does **NOT** set more than one point of the button? |
| 02:21.57 | Iriel | Also, why would you do getglobal("GameFontNormal") instead of GameFontNormal ? |
| 02:22.37 | Thrae | I thought getglobal(globalvar) is a "safer" way of getting the global variable? |
| 02:22.48 | Iriel | It's only safe if you have no control over your local variables |
| 02:23.04 | Thrae | Ahhh. |
| 02:23.08 | Iriel | You're calling CreateFrame as a global |
| 02:23.18 | Iriel | so if you were trying to be 'safe' you'd also want to be getglobal'ing that |
| 02:23.32 | Iriel | It's required if you ever play silly games with setfenv |
| 02:24.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 02:27.06 | Thrae | Iriel: http://pastebin.ca/64052 |
| 02:27.46 | Thrae | There's ReadjustPoint, not sure what you mean by "more then one point", unless you mean the anchor point vs the relativepoint. |
| 02:27.50 | Iriel | Does anyone remember if freshly CreateFrame'd frames have all points set or not |
| 02:28.14 | Thrae | In which case I always set both the anchor point and the relative point. |
| 02:30.28 | wereHamster | Iriel, no points set.. |
| 02:30.30 | Iriel | Does line 72 get a different value for GetTextWidth than line 76? |
| 02:31.54 | Iriel | And does the text change properly with button state at the moment? |
| 02:32.01 | Iriel | Or does it always remain normal? |
| 02:32.31 | Thrae | Iriel: Text font changing with state is fine, and f:GetTextWidth() always returns the same value. |
| 02:33.07 | Thrae | That f:GetTextWidth() / 7 is just a hack I threw in that worked, but now I realize my clickable region vs texture region is screwed up. |
| 02:33.36 | Thrae | I should say, mouse-enabled region width vs texture width. |
| 02:34.27 | Thrae | Is there a way to change the size of the texture without changing the size of the mouse-enabled region? |
| 02:34.46 | Iriel | You'd change the hit rect on the button |
| 02:34.59 | Iriel | though I dont know if that affects only clicking, or also OnEnter/OnLeave |
| 02:36.03 | Thrae | Ahhh, SetHitRectInsets |
| 02:36.29 | Thrae | Now the question is, why do we need to do this in dynamic frame creation vs pure XML? |
| 02:36.47 | Thrae | Am I doing something wrong? |
| 02:37.08 | Iriel | That would depend on what your "equivalent XML" looked like |
| 02:37.30 | Thrae | Iriel: OptionsButtonTemplate, going down its inheritance chain. |
| 02:39.35 | Thrae | Iriel: Actually, more specifically, UIPanelButtonTemplate |
| 02:42.23 | Iriel | well, the standard one has a fixed size |
| 02:43.21 | Iriel | So that's hard to say |
| 02:43.35 | Iriel | They also set texcoords on all their textures |
| 02:43.40 | Iriel | which you've completely ignored |
| 02:44.21 | Thrae | Iriel: How do I set TextCords or use a pre-existing template? |
| 02:44.50 | Iriel | You'd need to create Texture objects, instead of just specifying a path |
| 02:45.00 | Iriel | or call :GetNormalTexture():SetTexCoords() |
| 02:45.07 | Iriel | Of course, since this is 1.11 you can just do |
| 02:45.32 | Iriel | CreateFrame("Button", nil, parent, "OptionsButtonTemplate") |
| 02:45.44 | Cide- | oh, that's in now? |
| 02:45.57 | Cide- | excellent |
| 02:46.07 | Iriel | I'm not sure if it's live on test, to be honest i've been working more or less solidly for the last 3 weeks |
| 02:46.37 | Cide- | I tried.. CreateFrame("CheckButton", nil, UIParent, "ActionButtonTemplate") a while ago |
| 02:46.45 | Cide- | but it seemed to just create a normal checkbutton |
| 02:46.50 | Cide- | granted that was ~2 weeks ago |
| 02:47.48 | Thrae | Aha! Yes, that worked, inheriting from "OptionsButtonTemplate". |
| 02:50.17 | Thrae | Well as long as Blizzard doesn't decide to remove some of their templates, this should work out nicely. |
| 02:51.47 | Thrae | Is there really any danger using the templates provided in FrameXML? |
| 02:52.39 | Iriel | no more than any other reliance on blizzard stuff |
| 02:52.49 | Iriel | You always have the chance that it'll change in a patch |
| 03:06.30 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 03:20.25 | Thrae | Iriel: What's the equivilent of <Texture alphaMode="ADD">? Is it Texture:SetBlendMode() ? |
| 03:21.09 | Iriel | Yes |
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| 03:36.27 | Thrae | Iriel: Do both Button:SetNormalTexture(filepath) and Button:SetNormalTexture( textureObject ) create a new Texture object? |
| 03:37.09 | Iriel | The latter consumes the texture object you give it |
| 03:37.11 | Iriel | and uses that |
| 03:37.33 | Thrae | What if the later is a virtual object? |
| 03:37.41 | Thrae | s/later/latter/. |
| 03:37.41 | Iriel | There's no such thing |
| 03:37.49 | Thrae | Well, a virtual XML object. |
| 03:37.54 | Iriel | You'd need to instantiate it with CreateTexture first |
| 03:38.13 | Iriel | Again, there's no lua object for an XML virtual object |
| 03:38.55 | Iriel | (Fonts appear to work that way but for very silly reasons that are holdovers of the old implementation) |
| 03:40.25 | Thrae | OK. So why isn't this working: http://pastebin.ca/64084 |
| 03:44.08 | Iriel | I dont know, you can instantiate virtual textures in a similar manner to frames |
| 03:44.42 | Iriel | f:CreateTexture(nil, "UIPanelButtonUpTexture") or something like that, I forget the exact signatuer |
| 03:44.49 | Iriel | signature, even |
| 03:45.12 | Iriel | Why are you storing them, by the way? |
| 03:45.23 | Iriel | They should be local and transient, once you've given them to your button y ou can't use them somewhere else |
| 03:46.45 | Thrae | Hmmm... |
| 03:47.41 | Thrae | I was trying to get rid of all my dependencies on virtual templates via XML, especially external to my code. |
| 03:48.06 | Iriel | Well, try that code without the storage in data |
| 03:48.10 | Iriel | just local T = f:CreateTexture() |
| 03:48.11 | Iriel | etc |
| 03:48.36 | Iriel | As I said earlier, the texture you create is consumed by the button |
| 03:48.42 | Iriel | your attempt to 'cache' them will fail horribly |
| 03:49.32 | Thrae | Iriel: But you said earlier that if SetNormalTexture is given a texture object, it'll just use that object instead of making a new one. |
| 03:49.42 | Iriel | Yes, it will |
| 03:49.47 | Iriel | but it takes it for its own |
| 03:49.58 | Iriel | It doesn't copy the one you give it |
| 03:50.01 | Thrae | OK, so you mean it makes a new table and copies the information to that table regardless? |
| 03:50.01 | Iriel | It OWNS the one you give it |
| 03:50.15 | Iriel | The actual functions are working on the C++ objects |
| 03:51.27 | Thrae | Hmmm. I was trying to equate what I'm doing vs how XML virtual elements are handled. |
| 03:52.20 | Thrae | Are inherited XML virtual elements not real Lua objects until they are instantiated? |
| 03:57.15 | Thrae | Iriel: Well I switched everything to locals, but it still doesn't work. http://pastebin.ca/64090 |
| 03:58.52 | Iriel | XML virtual elements are just internal instructions on how to instantiate things |
| 03:59.13 | Thrae | Yeah, that makes sense now. |
| 03:59.27 | Iriel | That code looks better, in what way is it failing? |
| 03:59.46 | Thrae | No textures are showing up for the buttons. |
| 04:00.39 | Thrae | Text is OK, and the HitRec is OK where the text acts like its suppose to. |
| 04:01.47 | Iriel | Try t:SetAllPoints(f) T:Show() |
| 04:01.53 | Iriel | sorry, t:Show() |
| 04:03.47 | Thrae | Ahhh that did it, t:SetAllPoints(f) |
| 04:04.22 | Iriel | cool |
| 04:04.34 | Iriel | that's one of those things the XML does implicitly unless you tell it not to |
| 04:04.43 | Thrae | Sorry for being such a blunderhead with all this stuff ;) |
| 04:05.05 | Iriel | Dont feel bad, lots of this dynamic creation stuff is very new and partially untested |
| 04:05.11 | Iriel | by us, at any rate |
| 04:06.12 | Thrae | I also was under the assumption that it would be easier to cache the stuff like CreateTexture(). So each time CreateTexture() is called, a new object in memory is made, right? |
| 04:06.34 | Thrae | Regardless of the texture used in dynamic or pure XML code? |
| 04:06.39 | Iriel | You can't though, because each button needs a texture |
| 04:07.23 | Iriel | Internally the client does cache the file, so if you have 8 textures all referring to the same file the file is only in memory once |
| 04:08.41 | Thrae | Well of course I assume that, but what about the Texture object itself? Does calling CreateTexture or XML instantiation create a new array / list entry for each texture? |
| 04:09.24 | Iriel | both would create a new Texture object |
| 04:09.48 | Thrae | Well, I guess this dynamic way isn't eating up anymore memory then the XML way. |
| 04:10.01 | Iriel | (technically from XML it's not visible in the lua environment until you reference it, but the overhead there is relatively small) |
| 04:10.04 | Iriel | I wouldn't worry about it. |
| 04:11.10 | Thrae | Sorry, my pasttime with C coding is working on machines with 8MB of memory, so I'm having trouble letting go of memory concerns ;) |
| 04:11.54 | Iriel | Being concerned is good, but in this case you dont have to be overly worried |
| 04:49.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.27.74) |
| 05:17.04 | Thrae | Crap, now my dynamic frames aren't wrapping their text anymore and I don't know why... |
| 05:17.40 | Iriel | Did you tell them to? |
| 05:18.41 | Thrae | Is there anything else other then FontString:SetNonSpaceWrap(true) ? |
| 05:19.56 | Iriel | Making sure your font strings have a fixed width or anchors on both sides |
| 05:21.49 | ScytheBlade1 | What's lua's concat function? :/ (It's been too long) |
| 05:21.56 | Iriel | .. |
| 05:21.59 | ScytheBlade1 | That's right |
| 05:23.00 | ScytheBlade1 | ty |
| 05:36.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Is there a good lua equal to a DEFINE (commonly seen is... a lot of languages)? Or just use variables? |
| 05:36.15 | Iriel | variables |
| 05:36.22 | ScytheBlade1 | blah, I had hopes |
| 05:36.32 | ScytheBlade1 | They may function the same, but it's the thought :/ |
| 05:36.36 | Iriel | well, what do you need a DEFINE for specifically? |
| 05:36.43 | Iriel | Often in lua a string constant is just as good |
| 05:37.02 | Iriel | (Unless you're looking for "parse-time" validation, in which case, not so good |
| 05:37.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure, and it'll work for this |
| 05:37.15 | ScytheBlade1 | But it's mostly the thought/semantics of how it "works" |
| 05:38.06 | ScytheBlade1 | k, wrap your head around this ;) |
| 05:38.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm making a small addon in place of a macro due to length |
| 05:38.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Basically, it just pops my mage cooldowns then a spell |
| 05:38.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm looking for a good way to check to see if a certain spell - or trinket - is on cooldown still |
| 05:40.13 | ScytheBlade1 | The closest I've come is GetSpellCooldown, which seems to depend on SpellId - and as far as I can tell, that number is dynamic based on the amount of spells in your spellbook |
| 05:40.32 | Iriel | Cache them as you look them up |
| 05:40.42 | Iriel | clear the cache whenever you see the SPELLS_CHANGED event |
| 05:40.54 | Iriel | (or whichever one it is that fires when you gain/lose a spell) |
| 05:41.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Right. How would you recommend looping through that? |
| 05:41.34 | Iriel | Looping through what? |
| 05:41.46 | ScytheBlade1 | The SpellIds |
| 05:43.53 | Iriel | Well, there's GetNumSpellTabs |
| 05:43.56 | Iriel | and GetSpellTablInfo |
| 05:47.38 | ScytheBlade1 | cool, ty |
| 05:58.35 | Thrae | FontString:GetStringWidth() / ( FontHeight / 2 ) seems to work... |
| 05:59.18 | Thrae | Crap, it was just a coincidence. |
| 05:59.53 | Iriel | Why not do it based on the height of the FontString ? |
| 06:00.06 | ScytheBlade1 | If I wanted to cast the first spell on the third page, would the SpellId be (number of spells on page one) + (number of spells on page two) + 1? |
| 06:01.12 | Thrae | Iriel: Ah duhh, I didn't realize the height was automatically adjusted. |
| 06:01.35 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : more or less, yes |
| 06:01.43 | Iriel | Thrae : It is as long as you dont force a height |
| 06:01.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Iriel, less? ;) |
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| 06:02.31 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : Assuming all the pages are filled, yes |
| 06:02.56 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : Each tab has an offset, which I think is the spell ID of its first spell |
| 06:03.12 | ScytheBlade1 | name, texture, offset, numSpells = GetSpellTabInfo({spellbookTabNum}); <-- numSpells returns a multiple of 12 always? |
| 06:03.32 | Iriel | no |
| 06:03.53 | ScytheBlade1 | So then that should work |
| 06:09.36 | Thrae | Iriel: How does one get the maximum width of a font, in pixels? |
| 06:09.50 | Iriel | I'd imagine you iterate over all the letters and see which is widest |
| 06:09.56 | Iriel | I dont know of any easy way |
| 06:10.05 | Thrae | Hmm, that's decidely evil. |
| 06:12.06 | Thrae | I've noticed that FontString:SetWidth( pixels ) doesn't seem to take into account the width of the characters when doing text wrapping, and usually goes far out from the set width in pixels. |
| 06:13.12 | Thrae | Errr, my brain is shutting down. The pixel width of each line after wrapping is still greater then the pixel width set by fs:SetWidth(). |
| 06:15.19 | Cairenn|sleep | night all |
| 06:28.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Aw crap |
| 06:28.45 | ScytheBlade1 | The rank for the spell is "Rank X" |
| 06:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | instead of just X |
| 06:30.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Would "Rank 2" > "Rank 1" eval as true in lua? |
| 06:30.17 | Tem_ | so, I just got off the PTR playing with undead invasion |
| 06:30.24 | Tem_ | and, it's hella cool |
| 06:30.32 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : Yes |
| 06:30.39 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 but "Rank 9" > "Rank 10" |
| 06:30.45 | Tem_ | I really hope the 5 rep for each mob carries into revered |
| 06:30.46 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : So be careful with that |
| 06:30.48 | ScytheBlade1 | #$% |
| 06:30.50 | ScytheBlade1 | So close :P |
| 06:30.54 | End | yeah, it's just strcmp |
| 06:31.04 | Iriel | ScytheBlade1 : Aren't the spell IDS always in rank order? |
| 06:31.12 | Tem_ | no |
| 06:31.22 | Tem_ | but only for spells that aren't really r |
| 06:31.26 | Tem_ | anked |
| 06:31.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Recommended way to check that? |
| 06:31.47 | Tem_ | I'm talking about the conjure mana gem spells |
| 06:32.02 | Tem_ | they aren't marked as "conjure mana gem rank X" |
| 06:32.11 | Tem_ | they are "conjure mana ruby" |
| 06:32.17 | Tem_ | "conjure mana jade" |
| 06:32.18 | Tem_ | ect |
| 06:32.29 | Tem_ | and their IDs aren't in order |
| 06:32.54 | ScytheBlade1 | So the question is, can I cound on a higher rank being a higher number 100% of the time |
| 06:33.01 | Tem_ | so, it's probably safe to assume that spells are in rank order |
| 06:33.23 | ScytheBlade1 | That does make it easier |
| 06:33.32 | ScytheBlade1 | But likewise, it just seems like so much could go wrong :P |
| 06:37.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, that got me my highest rank of Pyroblast.. but it just feels kinda dirty |
| 07:18.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 07:35.12 | Wobin | hrm |
| 07:35.21 | Wobin | I fear I'll have to respec into a dagger or sword spec soon =( |
| 07:35.30 | Wobin | Not enough nice maces around |
| 07:56.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 07:57.15 | zespri | sorry for the noob question - where do I buy troll mount? |
| 07:59.29 | Wobin | Down at the troll town south near the newbie area? |
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| 08:08.56 | zespri | cheers |
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| 13:45.11 | wereHamster | what do you think of my new player/target/targettarget frame for tanks? It's the frame in the center of the screen: http://www.dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/exposure.png |
| 13:48.41 | zenzelezz | the thing with three yellow bars? |
| 13:48.43 | MoonWolf | hmmm |
| 13:48.47 | MoonWolf | its so yello |
| 13:48.56 | zenzelezz | if that's the one, then I like it |
| 13:59.28 | wereHamster | yep.. the yellow one with three bars.. |
| 13:59.59 | wereHamster | it's yellow.. like the HL2 UI ;) |
| 14:00.29 | MoonWolf | slightly to much yellow if you ask me. |
| 14:00.51 | wereHamster | that can be changed.. |
| 14:01.32 | wereHamster | but yellow on black is very clear.. |
| 14:03.07 | wereHamster | .. unlike green/blue on black |
| 14:03.18 | MoonWolf | green on black is clear. |
| 14:03.53 | zenzelezz | depends on the shade of green... I find that orangeish color in the screenshot easier on my eyes than most greens on black |
| 14:04.00 | zenzelezz | just make it possible to change ;) |
| 14:04.52 | wereHamster | and the best of all is.. it's only 119 lines of lua code and two textures :) |
| 14:05.02 | MoonWolf | nice |
| 14:06.35 | wereHamster | I think I'm really good at making small code.. |
| 14:06.55 | zenzelezz | what he fails to mention is that each line is 2000 characters wide ;) |
| 14:07.33 | MoonWolf | perl coders ftw |
| 14:07.38 | MoonWolf | dAk7Ch85e |
| 14:12.26 | wereHamster | wc for the addon directory: 122 236 3168 total |
| 14:15.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.27.74) |
| 14:15.48 | zenzelezz | what are those first two numbers? |
| 14:18.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207) |
| 14:18.55 | wereHamster | lines, words, bytes |
| 14:19.40 | zenzelezz | aha =) |
| 14:22.57 | Cide | heh, so you are averaging less than 2 words per line? |
| 14:23.43 | zenzelezz | lot of space between functions? :-o |
| 14:23.51 | wereHamster | I guess this is considered one word: frame.bar:SetStatusBarTexture("Interface\\AddOns\\Exposure\\Textures\\Solid") |
| 14:23.58 | zenzelezz | haxx |
| 14:28.05 | Wobin | Just linking some nicknames =) |
| 14:28.16 | zenzelezz | aha :) |
| 15:04.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 15:06.02 | Miravlix | Thats it I think. When I turn on the machine now it runs for a few seconds then turns off, due to the power spike the disk must be generating. |
| 15:06.53 | Miravlix | But dang it was strange that it after 200+ days of not working and me booting every now and then in the wain hope it would work, it works for 12 hours just today and I manage to backup all data. |
| 15:08.03 | Miravlix | But now I have to add some SATA harddisks to my shopping list, to replace it. |
| 15:21.29 | Tain | heh I'm looking at SATA drives right now, trying to find a good place to buy 4 300s to make a RAID5. |
| 15:23.38 | JoshBorke | ace svn doesn't appear to like me atm |
| 15:28.36 | Kirkburn | Lol, I love this clip ... maybe I'm evil, but I think he misses an important use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6bTF2PZw2s |
| 15:36.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm - is there any good way to tell if a spell is out of range or not? |
| 15:38.01 | Tain | IsActionInRange() |
| 15:39.17 | ScytheBlade1 | How do you determine the "Action Slot" though? |
| 15:40.46 | Tain | Oh that's if the spell is on a button. |
| 15:40.57 | ScytheBlade1 | ^^ |
| 15:41.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Any way to tell otherwise? |
| 15:41.53 | Miravlix | No |
| 15:42.11 | Miravlix | The spell system is very limited unless it's on a action button |
| 15:43.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got a (very) small addon that checks to see if a bunch of stuff is on cooldown, then fires off the spell (AP + PoM + Trinkets, surprise!) |
| 15:43.42 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm having trouble finding what to use to check if it's in range or not.. ;P |
| 15:44.49 | Kirkburn | Japanesae TV and Robin Williams ... they go so well together! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9DtCQRy3nc |
| 15:44.51 | Tain | Put it on a button. :) Like Miravlix said I don't think there's another way. |
| 15:45.35 | ScytheBlade1 | :/ |
| 15:45.44 | ScytheBlade1 | That's kinda depressing - how do the buttons know? ;) |
| 15:45.56 | Tain | They get to use IsActionInRange() |
| 15:46.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 15:52.47 | Codayus | Yeah, it's a bit annoying. |
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| 18:06.11 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, it's all your fault ... I've been watching Whose Line is it Anyway all day, and I can't stop :D |
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| 18:25.42 | Tain | The English Whose Line is it Anyway? Or American? |
| 18:35.33 | Kirkburn | American ... most of the UK ones aren't on YouTube :) |
| 18:36.25 | Kirkburn | I wondered why it disappeared from UK tv, didn't realise they all went to the US :( |
| 18:47.10 | krka | have you found it useful clad|work? |
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| 20:32.33 | Guillotine | lol... http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-4257-1-happy-coil-v10.html most pointless addon ever |
| 20:34.11 | Suntiger | but fun |
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| 20:40.18 | Guillotine_ | *sigh*. still have a d/c problem... |
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| 21:11.04 | AnduinLothar | so guess what email i just got... |
| 21:11.13 | Miravlix | Spam? |
| 21:11.21 | AnduinLothar | Character Name Violation |
| 21:11.43 | AnduinLothar | after 2 years using this name I now can't log in with out changing it. |
| 21:12.49 | AnduinLothar | I've sent back a dispute email, but I guess I'm not doing bwl today. |
| 21:13.30 | Iriel | On what grounds does 'AnduinLothar' violate the naming rules? |
| 21:13.39 | AnduinLothar | trademark |
| 21:14.41 | AnduinLothar | I was on the verge of threatening to quit wow, but i didn't think that would go over well |
| 21:15.24 | zenzio | are you not allowed to name yourself from lore characters? |
| 21:15.34 | krka | no |
| 21:17.04 | Kirkburn | Well, tbh, I'm a little surprised it's taken this long |
| 21:17.23 | krka | or maybe that was just for RP-servers..h m |
| 21:17.49 | krka | http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01723p#inappropriate |
| 21:17.55 | krka | "Include names of World of Warcraft realms, zones, or names of major characters from Warcraft lore" |
| 21:18.01 | Kirkburn | indeed |
| 21:18.41 | AnduinLothar | understood. If they had complained a year and a half ago i would have changed it |
| 21:18.44 | krka | you could argue that this isn't enforced very much at the moment |
| 21:19.04 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, this wouldn't have been Blizzard's choice ... someone else reported it, they have to act |
| 21:19.30 | Kirkburn | They can't start having double standards just because no-one complained for a long time :/ |
| 21:19.59 | Kirkburn | Very very annoying though |
| 21:20.06 | Kirkburn | Any thoughts on what you might choose? |
| 21:20.11 | AnduinLothar | but atm i am recognized by hundreds of thousands of WoW players by this name and would suffer not only emotional trauma by dissaaociating myself with an alias I has become quite attached to, it would also hinder my ability to address addon support on the forums |
| 21:20.17 | krka | LanduinOthar? |
| 21:21.01 | krka | i wonder if krka fails under this: " * Consist of a string of letters which do not produce a pronounceable name (i.e. Asdfasdf, Jjxccm, Hvlldrm) |
| 21:21.01 | krka | " |
| 21:21.22 | Kirkburn | I can pronounce it |
| 21:21.28 | Kirkburn | kerrkaa |
| 21:21.46 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, only one one realm! |
| 21:22.08 | Kirkburn | Besides, you could make a lvl 1 Anduin alt :) |
| 21:22.10 | AnduinLothar | no, I post by that name on the forums |
| 21:22.17 | AnduinLothar | and i already have a lvl 1 alt |
| 21:22.22 | Kirkburn | On another realm? |
| 21:22.28 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 21:22.28 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 21:22.52 | krka | my new project shall be to do a lot of /who and figure out which rule the name fails and submit a ticket |
| 21:22.58 | krka | i shall spam them with tickets |
| 21:22.59 | AnduinLothar | I don't fucking care how I can get around it. If they make me I am going to put up a giant stink on the forums |
| 21:23.01 | krka | and all shall be valid |
| 21:23.43 | Kirkburn | Interesting situation ... you *are* breaking the rules, but it wouldn't have a 'good' result |
| 21:24.18 | AnduinLothar | I am not breaking the rules now. I broke them when i named it. |
| 21:24.36 | Kirkburn | Whatever excuse you make, the name breaks the rules. |
| 21:24.59 | Kirkburn | And no, i'm not saying changing it is a good thing! :) |
| 21:25.03 | AnduinLothar | Hell, I had the character copied on to internal QA servers and NO ONE complained. |
| 21:25.33 | Kirkburn | Does that really surprise you? |
| 21:26.29 | Kirkburn | Anyway, you're in a better situation than most to get it sorted |
| 21:26.51 | krka | crap, krka is a river in croatia so i fail on this: "d the character copied on to internal QA servers and NO ONE complained." |
| 21:26.53 | krka | oops |
| 21:26.57 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.15 | Cide | not really |
| 21:27.21 | Cide | I don't think that river falls under "very well known" |
| 21:27.27 | Cairenn | it isn't "well know ... |
| 21:27.31 | Cairenn | heh |
| 21:27.34 | krka | how do you define "well known"? |
| 21:27.42 | Kirkburn | Well known to players? |
| 21:27.45 | krka | well known in croatia, most likely |
| 21:27.54 | krka | and I do play in EU |
| 21:28.04 | Cide | known to more than 10% of the player base? |
| 21:28.31 | Cairenn | I could, theoretically, have someone complain about my name, as well |
| 21:28.52 | krka | so you're suggesting blizzard should perform a survey for every such name-dispute? |
| 21:29.00 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 21:29.10 | Kirkburn | Well known to the GM, then |
| 21:29.11 | krka | "Hello, would you mind answering a question? Is "krka" a well known place to you?" |
| 21:29.24 | Kirkburn | Hey, they did add the survey thing in 1.11! |
| 21:29.28 | krka | if result is more than 10% of players say yes, it's banned? |
| 21:29.37 | Cide | yep! |
| 21:29.45 | krka | people are generally assholes and will probably all say yes |
| 21:29.50 | Cairenn | lol |
| 21:29.56 | krka | atleast i would have! |
| 21:30.10 | krka | what category does cairenn fail under? |
| 21:30.31 | zenzio | Cairenn: what isn't well known? |
| 21:30.59 | Kirkburn | "You can't be called John, cos several celebs have that name, and I know someone called John! Change it at once!" |
| 21:31.12 | Thrae | Argh, there must be a way to do this. If I give a fontstring a width, why isn't that the point where the text breaks? |
| 21:31.20 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.21 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.22 | krka | that perhaps? |
| 21:31.38 | Cairenn | zenzio: the conversation about krka's name |
| 21:31.52 | krka | the conversation isn't well known? |
| 21:31.55 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 21:32.05 | Kirkburn | We must publicise it! |
| 21:32.06 | Cairenn | lol |
| 21:32.18 | Cairenn | weirdoes |
| 21:32.25 | Kirkburn | Where?! Where?! |
| 21:32.37 | krka | i wonder if "grep" would be an illegal name |
| 21:33.04 | krka | yay for generic rule: "# Are otherwise considered inappropriate for the game world " |
| 21:33.08 | Cairenn | afk a few, back shortly |
| 21:33.28 | krka | basically, they can ban any name |
| 21:33.29 | krka | but we already knew that i guess |
| 21:33.33 | Elkano | krka, so they'll have to ban 99% of player names? |
| 21:33.33 | Cide | they could anyway :) |
| 21:34.37 | Elkano | There are so many chars running around that don't have any real name at all :/ |
| 21:36.10 | Kirkburn | You can tell those who were stuck for names and looked around the house ...'Spoonfish', 'CableTV', 'Bumsalad' |
| 21:36.20 | Kirkburn | One of those is real ... |
| 21:37.02 | Cide | I saw "Kiksumas" a day or two ago |
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| 21:37.54 | krka | should ban all taurens that have a name with "hoof" |
| 21:38.00 | krka | and all nightelves with "moon" |
| 21:38.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.5.129) |
| 21:38.27 | Elkano | well, the hoof-names would be surnames, won't they? |
| 21:38.36 | Kirkburn | I wants surnames! |
| 21:38.46 | SinPi | get flagRSP, you'll have surnames. |
| 21:38.58 | Elkano | btw: my last charname was choosen via wikipedia, resulting in: Irmintraud ;) |
| 21:39.27 | krka | would be cool if blizzard automatically generated a name for you |
| 21:39.32 | Kirkburn | Ermintrude? |
| 21:39.36 | krka | but it would be unknown to you until you get to level 10 |
| 21:39.45 | krka | just use some existing name generator |
| 21:39.46 | krka | FTW |
| 21:40.20 | SinPi | krka: and then you learn that your surname is Lardbloat or Toadstench? :> |
| 21:41.29 | krka | yes, if you're undead |
| 21:42.11 | Elkano | "I'm a proud Orc. I've honor and can't live with shame of such a surename. Anyone willing to assist me?" |
| 21:43.23 | krka | "reroll" |
| 21:43.32 | End | I got the Arcanite Fishing pole! :D |
| 21:43.33 | krka | spec 10 points into honourable name |
| 22:19.22 | Crispix_ | Anyone got any recommendations for UnitFrames? Mini's not working out when I enter raidparties |
| 22:28.44 | Cide | there are.. a lot, Crispix |
| 22:28.50 | Cide | what're you looking for, more specifically? |
| 22:34.55 | Crispix | Something small.. |
| 22:35.06 | Crispix | nice... like mini unit frames.. |
| 22:35.33 | Cairenn | try watchdog |
| 22:36.02 | Crispix | http://curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-1281-1-watchdog.html ? |
| 22:36.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kremonte (n=dan@ool-18b8808d.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:36.18 | Kremonte | 'lo peoples |
| 22:36.40 | Crispix | looks pretty nice Cairenn |
| 22:36.45 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=3953 |
| 22:36.50 | Cairenn | most recent version |
| 22:37.24 | Crispix | Tanke Cairenn ^_^ |
| 22:37.30 | Cairenn | bitte |
| 22:37.40 | Kremonte | question w/ dynamic frames: to register event, do i have to use a frame name and do that:RegisterEvent, or can the handler from CreateFrame be used? |
| 22:38.53 | Iriel | always use the object |
| 22:39.02 | Iriel | Using names is inherently dodgy |
| 22:39.11 | Iriel | (because there might be a duplicate) |
| 22:39.50 | Kremonte | alrighty |
| 22:39.55 | Kremonte | thanks |
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| 23:00.05 | ToastTheif | anyone seen id? |
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| 23:37.29 | Crispix_ | Cairenn was it you who said to use watch dog? |
| 23:37.32 | Crispix_ | or who? |
| 23:37.36 | Cairenn | I suggested it |
| 23:37.37 | Crispix_ | because I lurrrrrrrrrrrrve it :D |
| 23:37.46 | Cairenn | well, thank Clad, not me |
| 23:38.02 | Crispix_ | well you suggested it.. so I'm thanking you :) |
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| 23:59.11 | zenzio | hm... I remember the patch notes for/before 1.10 mentioning the armor upgrade quests, and talking about casual players... I'm having trouble picturing casual players farming gold for hours and going through most of the boss fights for it |
| 23:59.51 | zenzio | maybe not patch notes, but development notes or whatever it's called |
