| 00:01.59 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce4.disney.com) |
| 00:08.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Anon8942 (n=Anon8942@adsl-209-233-11-10.dsl.bkfd14.pacbell.net) |
| 00:08.44 | Anon8942 | Kwak! |
| 00:08.49 | Anon8942 | Rt |
| 00:08.50 | Anon8942 | Err |
| 00:08.57 | Astryl | There we go. |
| 00:08.58 | Astryl | Kwak! |
| 00:09.08 | Astryl | Anyone around? |
| 00:09.37 | kremonte | bah, no german speakers online >< |
| 00:11.39 | kremonte | shouryuu, you around? |
| 00:13.04 | kremonte | no german or french people? boo! |
| 00:13.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:17.11 | qw` | kremonte - what about norwegians? |
| 00:17.25 | kremonte | skit for french class with a few german lines for comedic value :( |
| 00:22.02 | haste | I'm norwegian! *waves* |
| 00:22.22 | Iriel | (more like snorewegian -- name that reference) |
| 00:22.24 | ckknight | kremonte, what do you want to translate? |
| 00:22.33 | ckknight | Iriel, end of the world |
| 00:22.44 | ckknight | isn't it? |
| 00:22.45 | qw` | Iriel - the flash thing |
| 00:22.52 | qw` | noo |
| 00:22.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.56 | ckknight | more like snoreway. |
| 00:22.56 | qw` | it's the zoo thing |
| 00:22.58 | ckknight | oh yea |
| 00:23.03 | ckknight | kenya |
| 00:23.06 | qw` | That's it |
| 00:23.10 | ckknight | lions and tigers |
| 00:23.37 | Iriel | Kenya, indeed. Nicely recalled 8-) |
| 00:23.50 | cmunn | Does anyone know if decursive can be set to dispel mind control first? |
| 00:23.58 | ckknight | Only in http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya.php |
| 00:24.51 | cmunn | or rather to prioritize dispelling of an MC'd raid member? |
| 00:31.06 | AnduinLothar | v1.81: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-3040-1-wardrobeal.html |
| 00:37.20 | qw` | never too late :P |
| 00:37.24 | haste | ;D |
| 00:42.04 | AnduinLothar | so... Wardrobe's done for now... what's next.. |
| 00:43.08 | AnduinLothar | embedable sky, finish giving PopupPwer features, standalone ArcanePartyBars, convert more of Cosmos to use Localization.... |
| 00:43.21 | AnduinLothar | upload a million outdated addons to curse.. |
| 00:46.39 | kremonte | any german speakers on now? ; ; |
| 00:58.10 | Qzot2 | Later |
| 01:01.09 | AnduinLothar | Back to life: WhoTip - http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2080-1-whotip.html |
| 01:04.06 | kremonte | it takes less than a minute to write a / command for 1 var :p |
| 01:04.35 | AnduinLothar | not if you have to localize it and make a failure case help text |
| 01:04.48 | kremonte | how could that fail in the first place? ;/ |
| 01:04.56 | kremonte | if you really want to get to the barebones |
| 01:05.05 | kremonte | SlashCmdList["WHOTIP"] = function() if WhoTip_Mouse then WhoTip_Mouse = nil else WhoTip_Mouse = true end end SLASH_WHOTIP1 = "/whotip" |
| 01:05.13 | kremonte | better than nothin imho |
| 01:05.29 | AnduinLothar | meh, how many times are you gonna change it? |
| 01:05.35 | AnduinLothar | once after installing? |
| 01:05.39 | kremonte | you got a point ._. |
| 01:06.18 | AnduinLothar | besides, all the Kool kids you Khaos |
| 01:06.23 | AnduinLothar | use* |
| 01:06.29 | kremonte | as much as i like the letter K... |
| 01:07.00 | kremonte | K-os! ha ha ha ha ha ha.. |
| 01:07.45 | AnduinLothar | hmm, those outfitter quick slots are kinda cool |
| 01:16.41 | AnduinLothar | oo, this tranqshotlist addon looks very useful |
| 01:19.00 | AnduinLothar | too bad im nto a hunter and dont care |
| 01:22.31 | Miravlix | ... |
| 01:23.02 | AnduinLothar | sooo.... time to work on Sky |
| 01:23.12 | AnduinLothar | it's library revamp month |
| 01:25.03 | AnduinLothar | guess Sky gets to start at v 2.0 |
| 01:50.21 | Miravlix | The last month or so has been libraries, your just behind. :) |
| 01:50.39 | AnduinLothar | i was speaking of the past month |
| 01:50.59 | AnduinLothar | anyway... looks like I have to make an embeddable SeaIO first |
| 01:51.43 | AnduinLothar | so that i can put SeaHooks SeaString SeaIO and Chronos in embedable Sky |
| 01:51.58 | AnduinLothar | a crap load of code.. |
| 01:52.00 | Miravlix | Tja, I just do function() end assignments when it isn't there |
| 01:53.40 | Miravlix | But thats just for the print family, I guess it has many other usefull features |
| 01:55.05 | AnduinLothar | heh looks liek SealO |
| 01:55.29 | AnduinLothar | maybe jsut call it SeaPrint |
| 02:02.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:06.09 | AnduinLothar | well.. ok SeaPrint was amazingly simple |
| 02:33.22 | Cairenn | cladhaire: of course we'll host it, dun be silly |
| 02:33.54 | cladhaire | <3 Cairenn |
| 02:33.59 | cladhaire | I gotta get it where I want it to be |
| 02:33.59 | cladhaire | but thanks |
| 02:34.05 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 02:34.14 | Cairenn | Dev Tools |
| 02:34.36 | Cairenn | when you're ready |
| 02:35.05 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 02:38.01 | AnduinLothar | wow, that's really odd |
| 02:38.14 | AnduinLothar | in a channel list I'm listed twice |
| 02:38.21 | AnduinLothar | there's 2 of me in the channel |
| 02:38.42 | AnduinLothar | 2 of everyone in fact.. |
| 02:38.47 | Gryphen | i see 1 |
| 02:39.35 | AnduinLothar | well you're not as kool as me with 2 versions of Sky running.. |
| 02:39.52 | AnduinLothar | I obviously broke a few things |
| 02:50.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-47-61.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:57.35 | AnduinLothar | ah, my dynamic frames were duplicating and making multiple event drivers |
| 02:58.16 | cladhaire | Cairenn: Uploaded |
| 02:58.25 | Cairenn | cool |
| 02:58.32 | cladhaire | err in progress |
| 02:58.33 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:58.37 | cladhaire | hopefully its small enough |
| 02:59.26 | cladhaire | all set |
| 02:59.34 | Cairenn | good stuff |
| 02:59.49 | Cairenn | make sure to drop a note in the Dev tools released forum, so folks know it exists now |
| 02:59.59 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41 |
| 03:00.01 | Cairenn | that one |
| 03:00.19 | Cairenn | and perhaps add a note to this thread: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107 |
| 03:01.24 | cladhaire | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info4989-SciTE-WoWUI.html |
| 03:04.06 | AnduinLothar | is there an easy way to tell on PEW if it was first login or a zone/rl? |
| 03:07.56 | cladhaire | doesn't PLAYER_LOGIN only fire on login |
| 03:07.59 | cladhaire | I haven't played with it much |
| 03:08.15 | AnduinLothar | yeah, do i have to reg it and set a flag? |
| 03:08.39 | cladhaire | I dont know of any other way we can do it |
| 03:08.41 | cladhaire | but maybe someone has a trick |
| 03:09.10 | cladhaire | nevermind, that wont work |
| 03:09.13 | cladhaire | http://www.wowwiki.com/Events_that_fire_during_the_Loading_Process |
| 03:09.36 | cladhaire | i'm not sure how you differentiate between Reload and Login, except hooking the reload |
| 03:13.43 | AnduinLothar | well the only thing i can find is that channels join on login, but when do you check for that.. |
| 03:14.19 | cladhaire | hehe good question. |
| 03:14.25 | cladhaire | we should get a ZOMG_RELOADING event |
| 03:14.57 | AnduinLothar | I mean, i spose I could use Chronos.afterInit but that sounds excessive |
| 03:15.15 | cladhaire | how does chronos handle it? |
| 03:15.20 | cladhaire | or rather, what end-result are you hoping for? |
| 03:17.32 | cladhaire | zomg answer me.. i can't stand the suspense. |
| 03:17.50 | AnduinLothar | i need to scan channel lists every time the system loads, atm i have it happening every time a channel changes or is joined, but if you rl the user list wipes and i cant have a SV and the channels don't rejoin and i dont want to list them twice on first login |
| 03:18.35 | cladhaire | well a RL and login are the same as far as the UI is concerned, including channels, no? |
| 03:19.15 | AnduinLothar | channels dont rejoin on RL |
| 03:19.25 | cladhaire | Aah true.. you never leave them. |
| 03:19.43 | cladhaire | and you dont have any SV at all? |
| 03:24.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 03:28.47 | Cairenn | night clad|sleep, sweet dreams |
| 03:32.25 | AnduinLothar | it's embeddable no sv allowed :( |
| 03:36.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:36.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Cu]NeT (n=net@dslb-088-064-179-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:41.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:41.37 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:41.48 | Iriel | Evening all |
| 03:43.40 | Cairenn | hey Iriel |
| 03:48.40 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 03:51.19 | Cairenn | Iriel ... he got them |
| 03:51.33 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 03:51.38 | Cairenn | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=382472&tmp=1#post382472 |
| 03:54.36 | Kalroth | mmm, cookies |
| 03:55.49 | Cairenn | he was promised one cookie for every API function he gave us, so Iriel sent him a bunch of cookies :) |
| 03:57.17 | Iriel | 96 bite size cookies, in fact |
| 03:59.38 | Kalroth | :D |
| 04:00.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 04:18.01 | Cairenn | night all |
| 04:59.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elessdy (n=no@69-179-15-68.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 05:02.49 | ckknight | what kind of char should I make? I want to start fresh |
| 05:02.54 | ckknight | I want to maximize my fun |
| 05:03.35 | ckknight | e.g. as t -> #INF, fun = #INF |
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| 07:09.19 | Elkano | do I get that right? so actualy sent slouken some cookies? |
| 07:13.12 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 07:17.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de) |
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| 07:19.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | wow a google seach for slouken is like super easy |
| 07:19.25 | s|loup | hi |
| 07:19.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | luckily he's well liked, if he was one of the CM's i'm afraid he might have had to move by now :[ |
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| 07:29.45 | Mr_Rabies2 | hrm, looks like he worked for Loki before Blizzard |
| 07:30.27 | Cairenn | aye |
| 07:31.04 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 07:33.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | too bad Loki broke up/went bankrupt/whatever |
| 07:33.24 | krka|work | old news :P |
| 07:33.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | hey, It's not exactly like blizzard allows their employees to openly discuss their past ventures :P |
| 07:34.27 | AnduinLothar | sure they do |
| 07:34.37 | AnduinLothar | there's not probitation |
| 07:34.57 | AnduinLothar | but most normal (not me) people don't share their life with random people |
| 07:35.15 | krka|work | i am not random!... oh wait, i am :( |
| 07:35.35 | Elkano | well, there's even a wiki page on one of our CMs ^^ |
| 07:35.48 | AnduinLothar | ya krka, i don't even know your name (not that that really means much considering my memory).. |
| 07:35.55 | Elkano | -> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaneck |
| 07:36.09 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'd like to know where the hell caydiem went :/ |
| 07:36.25 | krka|work | just do a /whois if you want to know :P |
| 07:37.01 | AnduinLothar | ya but i'll forget instantly |
| 07:37.14 | AnduinLothar | it's knowing where to look that counts imo |
| 07:37.35 | Cairenn | she said where she went, when she moved departments |
| 07:37.51 | AnduinLothar | she's getting more money, don't bug her :P |
| 07:38.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | now i don't think there's a CM that plays a druid reasonably anymore |
| 07:40.46 | s|loup | i thought there was a new cm when caydiem moved to (design?) |
| 07:41.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | i feel as though druids are mostly misunderstood even by the developers :/ |
| 07:41.58 | s|loup | Coreiel isnt a cm? |
| 07:42.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | sometimes it's like, they understand the 3 classes, one at a time aspect, and others, it's like they forget we have abilties other than healing touch, rejuv, and regrowth :x |
| 07:43.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | Coriel is more of a moderator than a CM, i believe |
| 07:43.17 | s|loup | i want a new 31 talent instead of that swiftmeld, why healers can get a transform for more healer |
| 07:43.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | swiftmend is really freaking nice |
| 07:43.45 | s|loup | i dont think that i will hold it |
| 07:43.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | it almost makes me want to spec out of feral |
| 07:43.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | almost. |
| 07:44.17 | s|loup | its just a 'last standing' spell as i think |
| 07:44.33 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's got a 15 second cooldown, it's really nice |
| 07:44.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | really good for raiding |
| 07:45.03 | s|loup | but you got no bonus from t2 |
| 07:45.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | tank suddenly drops to 20% hp on a random crit? BAM cheap extra heal |
| 07:45.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | i copied MY druid to the ptr |
| 07:45.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | not one in t2 |
| 07:46.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | it heals for about 1000 without any +heal gear, and benefits 100% i believe |
| 07:47.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | I think it's better than innervate for raiding, an extra instant 1000+ heal that can crit for 250 mana is NICE |
| 07:48.14 | s|loup | with the t2 set bonus you will have full +health and a 4th tick so it can be up to 2000 at rejuvination |
| 07:48.44 | s|loup | 5th |
| 07:51.26 | Kaso | Benefits 100% ?! thats imba |
| 07:52.09 | Kaso | we're stuck with stinking 10% on pw:s :< |
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| 07:53.19 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 07:53.25 | Wobin_ | bloody imbadruidz |
| 07:54.07 | s|loup | yaeh druids own them all |
| 07:55.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 07:55.50 | s|loup | we have unbelievable damage, overwhelming healing and a giant hp-pool |
| 07:56.30 | s|loup | dont mess with druids, you only die by trying ^^ |
| 08:00.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | i<Kaso> Benefits 100% ?! thats imba <---it's cause rejuv benefits 100%, but since it misses a tick of each , i think it's 75% actually for rejuv and more for regrowth |
| 08:00.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | but since regrowth ticks for less, it ends up being about the same amount |
| 08:01.06 | Kaso | make sense, still better than 10% though |
| 08:02.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | i just realized, that's essentially what swiftmend is, a pw:s that caps at your max hp |
| 08:03.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | and that can crit |
| 08:04.11 | Kaso | indeed, all in all it seems a very good spell, whats the mana cost on it you know? |
| 08:04.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | 248 iirc |
| 08:05.42 | Kaso | got a cooldown? |
| 08:05.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | 15 sec |
| 08:06.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | it requires you to have a rejuv or regrowth up, also |
| 08:06.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | that's another 400 mana for rejuv, 900 for regrowth |
| 08:06.27 | Kaso | thatll almost always be up on a MT |
| 08:06.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | right |
| 08:06.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm not sure how it works with other peoples' rejuvs |
| 08:06.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | but i'd imagine it working well |
| 08:07.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | get the guy with the most +healing to keep stacking rejuv up there every time it goes away |
| 08:07.33 | Kaso | Does it have a global cooldown, or will you be able to do a Swiftmend-Reju Macro? |
| 08:07.44 | Mr_Rabies2 | i think it triggers GC |
| 08:07.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | you don't want to macro it anyway |
| 08:08.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's better to wait as long as you can for rejuv to wear off |
| 08:08.30 | krka|work | would be cool with a pvp spell that triggered GC for the other person |
| 08:08.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | get it right before the last tick for max heals |
| 08:08.45 | krka|work | (Garbage Collection) |
| 08:08.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | or right after the next to last tick |
| 08:08.51 | Kaso | well its more a emergancy spell so when you use it 9/10 times you dont care too much about the mana effency |
| 08:09.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'd use it after every 3 ticks of rejuv |
| 08:09.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | or 4 if i had the talent |
| 08:09.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | more commonly if the MT was dropping fast, but otherwise, best to not keep eating all the HoTs up[ |
| 08:10.30 | Kaso | Its a interesting healing method, this game needs more things like that |
| 08:10.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | i wish leader of the pack had a vampiric embrace type of ability for it |
| 08:11.18 | Mr_Rabies2 | heal xx% of damage done in cat form, x% of damage taken in bear |
| 08:11.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | to party |
| 08:11.45 | Kaso | isnt that too much like copy paste |
| 08:11.59 | Mr_Rabies2 | have the bear one only work to everyone but yourself to make it not give you a straight up damage reduction of x% |
| 08:12.33 | Mr_Rabies2 | i don't care how unique it is, it would make feral druids a lot more likely to be accepted into raiding guilds |
| 08:12.50 | Kaso | i think the bear one would be overpowered, i mean why choose anything other than a bear for tank if they had that ability |
| 08:13.22 | Mr_Rabies2 | because warriors can sunder and never get critted on |
| 08:13.44 | Mr_Rabies2 | why choose a bear at all for tanking now? |
| 08:13.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | same concept |
| 08:14.16 | Kaso | well blizzard have made it pretty clear that they dont really intend druids to be anything else but healers |
| 08:14.42 | Kaso | But i mean healing the party on damage you take, you'd never loose aggro from all the healaggro |
| 08:15.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | make it use pallies' heal-to-aggro ratio |
| 08:15.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | low aggro, but enough to give you decent aggro |
| 08:15.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | <Kaso> well blizzard have made it pretty clear that they dont really intend druids to be anything else but healers |
| 08:15.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | then why have druids? priests are much better at it |
| 08:17.24 | Kaso | well thats debatable, imo druids and priests fit together as a good pair, its either have 2 classes to heal, or have 1 class with twice as many people playing it |
| 08:17.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | druids might be up there on the healing meters, but healing meters aren't what matter, it's keeping groups alive that matters |
| 08:17.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | 16 priests > 8 druids and 8 priests |
| 08:18.14 | s|loup | oO |
| 08:18.31 | s|loup | 16 priests are more inefficient than 8 druids and 8 priests |
| 08:18.38 | Mr_Rabies2 | why's that? |
| 08:18.41 | Kalroth | HoTs ftw |
| 08:18.47 | s|loup | the hots fitting together |
| 08:18.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | HoTs always get covered by flash heals |
| 08:18.50 | Kalroth | renew + rejuv + regrowth |
| 08:19.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | ALWAYS get covered by flash heals by pallies/shammies or priests |
| 08:19.12 | Kalroth | on the MT sure, but what about the rest of the raid? |
| 08:19.26 | Kalroth | leave renew + rejuv on a melee and he'll be fine in most cases |
| 08:19.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | i've never had a rejuv go more than one tick without being covered |
| 08:19.55 | Kalroth | teach your shamans/paladins not to spot heal when their target got HoTs and ok health |
| 08:20.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | :shrug: they do fine |
| 08:20.16 | Kaso | Heal classes arent only about healing, i mean druids offer motw, innverate etc, priests have pwf power infuse, its all comparible, take either away and the raid suffers, in more than just healing |
| 08:20.50 | Kalroth | our renews/rejuvs do ~400 a tick, save the heals for the MT(s) |
| 08:20.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | if you took out every druid in a raid, and replaced them with 2/3 as many priests, it would be just as easy or easier. |
| 08:21.05 | Kalroth | except for Nefarian :p |
| 08:21.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | except for nef, true, but otherwise |
| 08:21.27 | Kalroth | and I disagree, druids are better MT healers than priests |
| 08:21.38 | Mr_Rabies2 | not at all, 3.5 sec is waaaay too long |
| 08:21.47 | Kalroth | priests are good at keeping a group up because of PoH, but druids are better MT healers |
| 08:21.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | i can't tell you how many times i've seen our MT drop before i could get a HT off |
| 08:22.06 | Kaso | Swiftmend :> |
| 08:22.12 | Kalroth | use healing team setups |
| 08:22.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | using druids as nothing but healers is a complete waste of a raid spot |
| 08:22.42 | Kalroth | uh, what else would you use them for? |
| 08:22.46 | Kalroth | spam moonfire? |
| 08:22.58 | s|loup | dispeller |
| 08:22.59 | Mr_Rabies2 | honestly, they don't fit in with the raid process at all |
| 08:23.01 | Kalroth | or let kitty scratch the boss? :) |
| 08:23.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | druids are pretty much against the concept behind raiding |
| 08:23.23 | s|loup | as i can say other classes mostly bad dispellers |
| 08:23.37 | Kalroth | well if you look at it that way, then same can be said for other hybrids, Rabies |
| 08:23.41 | s|loup | they dont want to dispell they only want to do damage |
| 08:23.41 | Kalroth | paladins and shamans too |
| 08:23.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | they're supposed to be 2nd best healers, 2nd best dps, and 2nd best tanks |
| 08:23.51 | Kalroth | no they're not |
| 08:24.07 | Kalroth | they're supposed to be good at healing, mediocre at dps and tanking |
| 08:24.12 | Mr_Rabies2 | that's not true at all. |
| 08:24.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | at ALL. |
| 08:24.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm done with this conversation now, because of that, rofl |
| 08:24.24 | Kalroth | and they are good healers, I don't see why you dislike them :) |
| 08:24.36 | AnduinLothar | the fact that druids can tank better than pallies is depressing |
| 08:24.50 | AnduinLothar | but imo pallies can heal better |
| 08:24.50 | Kalroth | Well tincans are also healers, Anduin :) |
| 08:24.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's supposed to be that way, AL, but pallies should be better than they are NOW |
| 08:25.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | at tanking |
| 08:25.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | i really feel sorry for you guys' tanking abilities, it needs to be buffed to right below druids |
| 08:25.17 | AnduinLothar | ya but i wear plate and they don't.. |
| 08:25.28 | AnduinLothar | and my tanking is abysmal |
| 08:25.33 | AnduinLothar | w/o like tier 2 |
| 08:25.33 | Kalroth | I'm just glad that I play horde, then I don't have to worry about paladins wanting to tank or dps :) |
| 08:25.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | you're also in a closed-minded guild that i wouldn't be any part of |
| 08:25.54 | AnduinLothar | pally dps is decent tho if your gear for it |
| 08:25.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | apparently |
| 08:26.09 | Kalroth | mmmm, you're the one that said Druids can't heal or fit into raids |
| 08:26.21 | Kalroth | my guild is only wiping on C'Thun though, so you might be wrong |
| 08:26.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | they don't, if the concept behind raiding is maximizing your dps, healing, and tanking abilities, they don't |
| 08:26.47 | AnduinLothar | :) i just got heart of hakkar :D |
| 08:26.48 | Kalroth | there's different rules for 5/10/20 man instances and 40 man instances |
| 08:26.53 | s|loup | i never seen a raid without druids |
| 08:27.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | a raid without druids would do fine, a raid without priests would be screwed |
| 08:27.11 | Kalroth | you can do 5/10/20 with any fucked raid setup you want, it's not hard |
| 08:27.18 | Kalroth | but you'll be punished in 40 man raids |
| 08:27.32 | Kalroth | we've done ZG easily without priests, Rabies .. |
| 08:27.40 | Kalroth | purely shamans and druids |
| 08:27.43 | Kalroth | so dunno? |
| 08:28.03 | AnduinLothar | shaman healing kinda sucks atm |
| 08:28.15 | AnduinLothar | no where near pally |
| 08:29.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | pallies are much better at snipe healing than druids |
| 08:29.41 | AnduinLothar | aye, but druids have the heall over time |
| 08:30.02 | s|loup | but druids are better emergency healers |
| 08:30.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | which, as i've told you, in most cases never ticks more than once, in every guild i've been in |
| 08:30.11 | s|loup | oO |
| 08:30.11 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 08:30.19 | s|loup | thats absolutely bullshit |
| 08:30.21 | AnduinLothar | too many people topping off |
| 08:30.31 | s|loup | not more than one tivk omg |
| 08:30.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | i take 200 damage and get two flashes of light and a flash heal |
| 08:30.51 | s|loup | what raids are you joining? |
| 08:30.59 | AnduinLothar | heh, ya. same here. we have tons of healers |
| 08:31.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | everything from ZG to AQ40 |
| 08:31.09 | AnduinLothar | so most our pallys and druids get bored and dps |
| 08:31.37 | AnduinLothar | one of our top dpsadins just got orange hammer |
| 08:31.38 | s|loup | we have 6 priests and 4 druids and we got no problems to bring our hots while time |
| 08:32.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | :shrug: maybe my server just rolls differently, but i never see my HoTs tick on anyone but the MT |
| 08:32.29 | s|loup | oO |
| 08:32.33 | AnduinLothar | that's cause druids top off slowly and most priests are too lazy to flash and jsut do med or large. pallies are always the ones topping off |
| 08:32.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | ^ |
| 08:32.55 | s|loup | without hte hots the priests must do more than just looking on mt and own grp |
| 08:33.35 | s|loup | and i will say that we got more wipes when druids dont use hots |
| 08:33.49 | Mr_Rabies2 | i never don't use my hots, i just never see them tick when i do |
| 08:34.00 | Kaso | never dont? |
| 08:34.05 | AnduinLothar | i dunno what they're doing, but it's not flashing.. the ones that flash or prayer top me on the healing meters. otherwise my non-stop flashing does more |
| 08:34.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | and the only time i ever see them tick on the MT is when no other druids are casting theirs :[ |
| 08:34.23 | s|loup | i dont understand why people must heal when members lost just 200 hp |
| 08:34.32 | Mr_Rabies2 | people do, it's something to do, i guess |
| 08:34.35 | AnduinLothar | cause they have nothing better to do |
| 08:34.49 | s|loup | than your raids looks like inefficient *g* |
| 08:34.53 | AnduinLothar | actually it's good pre-emptive |
| 08:35.11 | AnduinLothar | cause we dont know if you just got hit once or pulled agro |
| 08:35.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | 200 mana to top someone off in 1.5 sec or 300 mana to top someone off over 15 sec |
| 08:35.25 | Kalroth | as long as your healers dont run out of mana they can overheal all they want |
| 08:35.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | we never have mana problems |
| 08:35.47 | s|loup | why to overheal when a hot will be better job? |
| 08:36.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | except on super long boss fights, hell, most of the time i'm at 70% or above and i've got terrible regen |
| 08:36.13 | AnduinLothar | aye. in the last zg run i was 2nd in healing meters and overheal was est 30%, but the priests where at like 60% overhealing |
| 08:36.28 | s|loup | you can flash heal or whatever when he drops down to 60% |
| 08:37.10 | AnduinLothar | but most of the time in raid you need both. If someone drops to 20% you need someone to flash with someone else casts a big one |
| 08:37.18 | AnduinLothar | while* |
| 08:37.46 | AnduinLothar | that way they can still take a medium hit before the full heal is cast |
| 08:37.49 | s|loup | mostly i have more members which lose hp in periodic time |
| 08:39.09 | s|loup | getting fast bad damage is not the normal way in raids as i can say |
| 08:39.16 | s|loup | just at mts |
| 08:40.13 | s|loup | and the best concept for periodic damage is periodic heal as hots do |
| 08:40.52 | Miravlix | Except hots doesn't stack, like flash heal does |
| 08:41.20 | s|loup | but you can combine different hot types |
| 08:42.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | i almost never use regrowth except on the MT, because of how much mana it uses and the fact that the hot portion almost always goes to waste |
| 08:42.28 | s|loup | yes regrowth is a ugly spell |
| 08:42.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | and only on the tank if i know that it's gonna be the only way he's gonna stay alive |
| 08:43.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | because if another druid casts it, mine's gonna get covered up, i don't have any points in gift of nature, so all my hots are last in priority too |
| 08:43.53 | s|loup | we have made makros to prevent casting a reju when one is active at the target |
| 08:43.57 | Kalroth | what's your talent build? |
| 08:44.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | 11/35/5 |
| 08:44.14 | Kalroth | 35 in resto? |
| 08:44.20 | s|loup | in feral |
| 08:44.24 | Kalroth | .. |
| 08:44.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | balance to Omen of Clarity, Feral all the way, 5 in resto to get furor |
| 08:44.29 | Miravlix | Balance/Feral/Restoration |
| 08:44.31 | s|loup | he said that he is a feral |
| 08:44.34 | Kalroth | no wonder you claim that Druids can't heal then :p |
| 08:44.37 | Kalroth | I didn't see that, sorry |
| 08:44.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | i've been resto before |
| 08:44.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | I hated it |
| 08:44.51 | Kalroth | fair enough :) |
| 08:44.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | i did the same damn thing, only i couldn't do dps worth a damn if i wanted |
| 08:45.00 | Miravlix | I've been resto since release, it's great |
| 08:45.00 | Kalroth | but that doesn't make Druids bad healers |
| 08:45.15 | Kalroth | Druids aren't supposed to do dps (imo) |
| 08:45.22 | Mr_Rabies2 | you're wrong. |
| 08:45.28 | Miravlix | DPS is irrelevant |
| 08:45.32 | s|loup | but restos are better healers than ferals ;) |
| 08:45.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | the strength of the druid, from the class description page, #1 strength is "multiple play style options" |
| 08:46.05 | Kalroth | it's but and whatnot in 5/10/20 instances, but when you start doing 40 man, people will ask themself why they waste a raid slot on a kitty when they could have brought a rogue or a resto druid instead |
| 08:46.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | resto makes you, well, alright, at one play style |
| 08:46.24 | s|loup | [10:45:04] <Kalroth> Druids aren't supposed to do dps (imo) <-- prejudice |
| 08:46.30 | Kalroth | s|loup: experience |
| 08:46.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | I'm at 120 days played time, wsup lets flash our epeens |
| 08:46.54 | Miravlix | Druids can DPS, Tank and heal. |
| 08:46.55 | s|loup | i think a feral is a good damage dealer in raids |
| 08:47.03 | Kalroth | we can do MC with 25 people if we want, plenty of room for slack classes, we can do BWL with 30 if we want, room for slack classes there too |
| 08:47.03 | Miravlix | I have 130 days |
| 08:47.20 | Kalroth | I got 110 days on my main and 10-15 on my three level 60's |
| 08:47.47 | Miravlix | god you guys need a life. |
| 08:47.52 | Kalroth | :) |
| 08:47.55 | s|loup | hehe |
| 08:47.57 | Miravlix | I have 50 days on my 60. :p |
| 08:48.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | druids are designed around being the 2nd best at everything, and that's the way it should be. |
| 08:48.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | unfortunately, people just like being 2nd best at healing and forsaking everything else most of the time |
| 08:48.22 | s|loup | 2nd best in damage, dont think so |
| 08:48.26 | Kalroth | s|loup: prejudice or not, when you're wiping on new encounters every raid slot counts |
| 08:49.04 | Kalroth | s|loup: in a perfect world all priests could be shadow priests, all druids could be feral/balance, all shamans could be melee/shock spec, all warriors could be dps, etc. |
| 08:49.05 | s|loup | mostly ist just the experience how to kill not the slots |
| 08:49.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 08:49.15 | Kalroth | but that's not how raids work |
| 08:49.29 | Mr_Rabies2 | Exactly, that's what i'm saying. There's no place for druids in raids. |
| 08:49.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | yes, Qzot? :P |
| 08:49.47 | Kalroth | no, there's no place for secondary class roles in raids, Mr_Rabies2. |
| 08:50.03 | Qzot | I'm trying a quick hack. |
| 08:50.03 | Kalroth | we've got plenty of Druids, usually 5-8 on our raids |
| 08:50.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | the other stuff isn't secondary, for a druid, they're all equally important |
| 08:50.24 | Miravlix | 1.8 ruined the druid class |
| 08:50.33 | Kalroth | Your opinion, fair enough :) |
| 08:50.42 | Qzot | Is there a way to execute a slash command I'm holding as a string, or do I have to implement my own command handler in parallel with the standard one. |
| 08:51.20 | Qzot | ? |
| 08:51.51 | Miravlix | I've played my 60 a few days since that patch, the toon just didn't work after that. |
| 08:51.53 | Qzot | I.e., do I have to do my own search through SlashCmdList, blah, blah, blah. |
| 08:52.07 | s|loup | you mean do a slashcommand from an addon as a string? |
| 08:52.44 | Miravlix | Slashcmd is a table, just use it to get the function name |
| 08:52.45 | Qzot | Yes. Exactly. |
| 08:53.00 | Miravlix | well, not name, referance |
| 08:53.10 | s|loup | slashcommands is a global variable as i think so you can get the function by using slashcommands["name"] ? |
| 08:53.25 | Qzot | Yes... I was wondering if there's an API function that will do that for me. |
| 08:53.33 | Miravlix | Why? |
| 08:53.39 | Qzot | No. It's messier than that. |
| 08:53.48 | Miravlix | slashcommand["name"].function() |
| 08:53.55 | Miravlix | No need for an APi |
| 08:54.20 | Qzot | You have to loop through all the commands, then iterate through its command names to see if any match the slash command name you're holding. If so, execute the attached function. |
| 08:54.26 | Qzot | Grr. I disagree. |
| 08:54.50 | Qzot | When there are 8-10 lines of code, it's easy to have subtle differences between my implementation and Blizzard's. |
| 08:55.08 | Qzot | Much cleaner if it's possible to call theirs, so functionality is identical. |
| 08:55.37 | Qzot | But it sounds like there isn't one, so the point is moot. |
| 08:56.28 | s|loup | so back to druids ^^ |
| 08:56.30 | s|loup | [10:49:52] <Kalroth> we've got plenty of Druids, usually 5-8 on our raids <-- omg how many healers you have? |
| 08:57.03 | Miravlix | SlashCmdList["RELOADUI_SLASHENABLE"] = ReloadUIHandler; |
| 08:57.06 | Kalroth | 40 man raids, we usually got ~15 healers, depends if we need to stack it in favor of healing |
| 08:57.07 | AnduinLothar | ya, that's almost like our 40mans |
| 08:57.22 | Mr_Rabies2 | we take 3-4 healbot druids, 1-2 feral druids, and 6-7 priests |
| 08:57.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | and 3-5 pallies |
| 08:57.26 | Kalroth | 5-8 druids, 5-8 priests |
| 08:57.28 | Miravlix | So it's simly SlashCmdList["RELOADUI_SLASHENABLE"]() |
| 08:57.33 | Kalroth | 2-4 shamans |
| 08:57.33 | AnduinLothar | we need a few more mages or locks |
| 08:57.55 | Qzot | Miravlix: That assumes you know the *name* of the command, which you don't. |
| 08:58.02 | Kalroth | we're usually stacked on melee classes, we rarely got more than 3-4 mages and 1-2 warlocks |
| 08:58.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | so far our record on rag is 8% before sons, i need to feral that fight next time to get it to 5% at least |
| 08:58.39 | s|loup | hm ok our record is kill before sons ^^ |
| 08:58.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | yeah, we're working on it |
| 08:58.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | we have too many healers, honestly |
| 08:59.10 | Kalroth | You'll appriciate that on Twin Emperors :) |
| 08:59.20 | Kalroth | we use 12 healers on the MTs alone |
| 08:59.20 | s|loup | yes at mc you can do with 3 heal-druids and 6 priests |
| 08:59.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | we're waiting on 1.11 to really work on Aq40 much |
| 08:59.33 | s|loup | we are working at twins |
| 08:59.45 | s|loup | problem is the coordination as i think |
| 08:59.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | no point in wasting repairs on huhuran |
| 09:00.08 | Kalroth | s|loup: Yup, it was a notch up in terms of overall skills for the guild when we started doing twin emps |
| 09:00.24 | Kalroth | everyone has to be awake, no slacking |
| 09:00.29 | s|loup | hehe |
| 09:00.58 | Kalroth | http://acdev.org/aq40_damnit_split_em_up_already!.jpg <- our first evening on them :) |
| 09:01.03 | s|loup | so not like in mc where half of the raid is sleeping, eating or watching tv ^^ |
| 09:01.33 | Kalroth | we had one go afk during the twin emp fight, he bugged them and we had to idle for 25 mins waiting for them to respawn :( |
| 09:02.00 | Kalroth | yes, there was a lot of verbal trashing during those 25 mins ;) |
| 09:04.20 | Qzot | Miravlix: It's worse than I thought. According to the wiki, SlashCmdList does not contain the 'built-in' slash commands. |
| 09:05.02 | Miravlix | afk is SendChatMessage("", "AFK") etc. |
| 09:05.11 | Miravlix | They just have defined ways to be called |
| 09:05.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 09:05.58 | AnduinLothar | zomg. Standalone ArcanePartyBars |
| 09:06.08 | Qzot | Yes. But if I want a user to be able to enter *any* slash command, I have to separately implement each of those. |
| 09:06.24 | AnduinLothar | including emdedded MCom, SeaHooks, SeaString, SeaPrint, Chronos, and Sky |
| 09:07.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | arcanepartybars is nice, but i only have so much screen real estate :[ |
| 09:08.00 | AnduinLothar | 860KB not including images |
| 09:08.22 | Mr_Rabies2 | i mean physical space to put frames and stuff |
| 09:08.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | i like a real minimalist UI |
| 09:08.38 | AnduinLothar | i know, i was just saying how massive it is |
| 09:08.55 | AnduinLothar | seeing as it contains like 7 addons |
| 09:09.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh, i dunno standard addon size these days :P |
| 09:09.35 | AnduinLothar | unembedded SKy is 160KB |
| 09:09.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | oh no wobin crashed into nickserv |
| 09:09.52 | AnduinLothar | Embeddabel Sky is 304 |
| 09:10.05 | AnduinLothar | MCom is 336 |
| 09:10.31 | AnduinLothar | Khaos is 700KB |
| 09:10.42 | AnduinLothar | er, that's off |
| 09:10.45 | [Wobin] | muhaha |
| 09:11.14 | AnduinLothar | Khaos is 300KB |
| 09:12.19 | AnduinLothar | so 860KB w/o images is rediculous |
| 09:15.17 | AnduinLothar | and yet... people WILL downlaod it |
| 09:17.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 09:19.23 | AnduinLothar | mmm, spose i should make it work with huds too |
| 09:20.52 | Qzot | Miravlix: Alternate solution. I can hook outgoing chat messages, and detect my own slash commands and remove them from the buffer. |
| 09:21.17 | AnduinLothar | what're you trying to do? |
| 09:21.26 | Qzot | Weird hack. |
| 09:21.31 | AnduinLothar | for what? |
| 09:21.44 | Qzot | Trying to create a set of commands, say "/2g" and "/2p"... |
| 09:21.55 | AnduinLothar | what for? |
| 09:22.12 | Qzot | That let you redirection output to guild or party chat *only* for the duration of the appended command. |
| 09:22.15 | Qzot | So... |
| 09:22.36 | Qzot | "/2g /sl list" would show your shopping list to your guild. |
| 09:22.58 | AnduinLothar | what's /sl list do? |
| 09:23.17 | Qzot | Lists your shopping list to you default chat. |
| 09:23.27 | AnduinLothar | which addon? |
| 09:23.37 | Qzot | Fizz's shopping list? |
| 09:23.52 | AnduinLothar | does it actually "SAY" it or print to chatframe? |
| 09:24.02 | Qzot | Prints it. |
| 09:24.26 | Qzot | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(...) or something like that. |
| 09:24.48 | Miravlix | Capturing it is easy enough, emulating a call of a slashcommand is more problematic. |
| 09:24.58 | Mr_Rabies2 | Gazmik Fizzwidget's ShoppingList, right? http://www.fizzwidget.com/shoppinglist/ |
| 09:25.08 | Qzot | The alternate solution is easier. |
| 09:25.16 | Qzot | Yes, but /sl was just an example. |
| 09:25.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | That crazy goblin has some awesome addon ideas |
| 09:25.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | oes |
| 09:25.45 | [Wobin] | And a brilliant marketing method =) |
| 09:26.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | indeed |
| 09:26.25 | Miravlix | Some of the ideas doesn't play all that nice though. |
| 09:26.35 | AnduinLothar | well what you can do is this... use Sky to hook the command before and after, call the slash command, and enable redirection for the durration |
| 09:27.12 | AnduinLothar | and then unhook it |
| 09:27.16 | Qzot | Can you be more explicit what you mean by, "call the slash command"? |
| 09:27.49 | Miravlix | He want to capture all addons with slash commands, slash commands and redirect them to say guild chat |
| 09:27.49 | AnduinLothar | Sky allows for slash command hooking and since it takes over the whole slash command system it's easy to call them |
| 09:27.50 | Qzot | That's the nub of this discussion, actually. |
| 09:28.16 | Qzot | Does it effectively hook the built-in commands? |
| 09:28.18 | Miravlix | He can't rewrite all the other addons to make them use Sky |
| 09:28.21 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 09:28.29 | AnduinLothar | no, you dont have to |
| 09:28.40 | AnduinLothar | you can hook any command afaik |
| 09:28.51 | Miravlix | But how do you get the command? |
| 09:28.52 | AnduinLothar | I'll have to double check |
| 09:28.59 | Qzot | Well, that sounds like another good approach. |
| 09:29.24 | AnduinLothar | Sky has a function to get the command by /command |
| 09:29.43 | AnduinLothar | same used in normal parsing |
| 09:30.44 | Qzot | I'm currently thinking that if I don't use the standard parse system to create my slash commands, then I can fake my own "/2g" by hooking outgoing chat and reading the buffer. When I find "/2g ", I s |
| 09:31.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:31.12 | Qzot | ...I set up chat redirection, remove the "/2g " from the outgoing parse buffer, and reparse the command. |
| 09:31.26 | AnduinLothar | well if you want to do it manually yourself I wont stop you. I'm just saying with a lib already written it'd be easier |
| 09:31.47 | Qzot | I'm not convinced the delta is that great. |
| 09:32.15 | Qzot | And the current structure makes a big difference between a standalone addon, and one that has dependencies. |
| 09:32.25 | AnduinLothar | Sky is now Standalone |
| 09:32.33 | AnduinLothar | and Embeddable |
| 09:32.33 | Qzot | Hmm. |
| 09:32.38 | Qzot | Hmm. Hmm. |
| 09:33.02 | AnduinLothar | by 'now' i mean as soon as i complete testing and publish |
| 09:33.10 | Qzot | *cough* |
| 09:33.18 | Kalroth | lol |
| 09:33.40 | AnduinLothar | but you can use the current Sky for the commads and to write the code. I'll be done before tomorrow ends |
| 09:34.48 | Qzot | Hmm. |
| 09:35.01 | AnduinLothar | lemme double check the hooking |
| 09:35.01 | Qzot | Well, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. Time to toddle off... |
| 09:35.06 | Qzot | Thanks for the input. |
| 09:35.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | Don't do it, it's just crazy Sky propaganda! |
| 09:36.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0688.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 09:36.23 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 09:36.59 | AnduinLothar | if by propaganda you mean 'here, use my code. It'll save you time' |
| 09:37.45 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm just kidding :P |
| 09:38.24 | AnduinLothar | Sky.isSkySlashCommand("/list").func("1") |
| 09:39.48 | AnduinLothar | hmm, that doesn't work on non sky registered ones... sec |
| 09:46.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 09:52.31 | AnduinLothar | sad... you can't double embed by loading lua files. you have to lead an xml file to load the lua file |
| 09:52.55 | AnduinLothar | cause <Script file="SeaString\SeaString.lua"/> doesn't work |
| 09:55.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 09:56.06 | wereHamster | AnduinLothar, don't you need double-backslash? |
| 09:56.32 | AnduinLothar | oh? |
| 09:56.36 | AnduinLothar | possibly |
| 09:56.53 | AnduinLothar | that'd be nice |
| 09:57.13 | AnduinLothar | i know in you dont |
| 09:57.20 | AnduinLothar | but it is a lua script.. |
| 09:57.31 | AnduinLothar | in <Include file="Chronos\Chronos.xml"/> * |
| 10:09.18 | AnduinLothar | nah wereHampster.. doesn't seem to work |
| 10:10.04 | AnduinLothar | not for double embedded |
| 10:10.58 | AnduinLothar | not for anything it seems |
| 10:11.35 | AnduinLothar | onyl way to load lua from a sub dir is eithe rin the toc or through an xml in the same folder |
| 10:11.58 | AnduinLothar | anyway... it works |
| 10:12.21 | AnduinLothar | embedable SKy, SeaPrint and standalone ArcanePartyBars |
| 10:33.10 | Maldivia | grr... |
| 10:33.14 | Maldivia | is wow forums login down? |
| 10:41.43 | Kalroth | when isn't it? :) |
| 10:43.20 | Maldivia | ohh, I forgot it's tuesady |
| 11:07.10 | Kaso | Has there ever been any blue comment about DirectX overlays, eg ventrilo overlay? |
| 11:11.42 | Maldivia | not to my knowledge |
| 11:12.37 | Kaso | Ok, though not, just wanted a secon oppinion :> |
| 11:13.16 | wereHamster | overlays are allowed as much as you can run WoW in windowed mode and having a TS/Ventrilo window at the same time opened. |
| 11:13.25 | wereHamster | my opinion.. ;) |
| 11:16.06 | Kaso | Windowed mode > all |
| 11:16.11 | Kaso | :> |
| 11:16.33 | Maldivia | well, blizzard have has a sponsor deal with [insert name of DirectX overlay IM client], so I think it's allowed |
| 11:16.47 | Maldivia | I ALWAYS play in windowed mode :) |
| 11:17.14 | Kaso | maximised windowed mode for me, until i save up enough for a second monitor |
| 11:17.35 | wereHamster | I never understood why it takes so long to ALT-TAB out of a fullscreen game in windows.. |
| 11:17.43 | Maldivia | windows maximized (not ingame maximized) windowed mode |
| 11:18.34 | Kaso | wereHamster never though of that before to be honest but now you mention it is is odd |
| 11:19.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 11:20.08 | Wobin_ | bah |
| 11:20.54 | Kaso | /soothe |
| 11:23.03 | wereHamster | .. I can't be bothered what Blizzard allows and what not. |
| 11:23.21 | wereHamster | All they can do on my box is checksum the game files, they have power whatsoever checking what other application is running at the same time.. |
| 11:23.55 | wereHamster | warden is useless on my computer :-P |
| 11:24.15 | Kaso | i was just typing that out :< |
| 11:24.43 | krka|work | you mean "they have no power whatsoever" |
| 11:25.04 | wereHamster | yes -.- |
| 11:41.23 | AnduinLothar | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2650-1-arcanepartybars.html |
| 11:41.33 | AnduinLothar | v2.0 'Standalone' |
| 11:42.11 | AnduinLothar | prolly should have listed it as beta... seing as it uses experimental embeddable versions of a few libs |
| 11:42.24 | AnduinLothar | but it worked as far as I could tell |
| 11:53.17 | Kalroth | Can I sue you if it crashes my machine and installs Linux?! |
| 11:53.56 | [MoonWolf] | most likely it would install mac os x for 386 |
| 11:59.59 | wereHamster | 386 is so yesterday :-P .. the future belongs to 64bit |
| 12:02.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.204.55) |
| 12:40.05 | Kirkburn | Ciao! There's a nice combined list of undocumented changes on this here page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.11_%28Release_Notes%29 |
| 12:43.30 | [MoonWolf] | http://ace.pastebin.com/732878 <- omg |
| 12:44.42 | Maldivia | mana gem 2 min cooldown... mmm... |
| 12:45.44 | Maldivia | hmm, pyroblast doesn't have a cooldown anymore - according to the spell db, applies to all ranks... |
| 12:47.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 12:53.02 | [MoonWolf] | that would be.... |
| 12:53.05 | [MoonWolf] | overpowering. |
| 12:53.15 | [MoonWolf] | I demand the cooldown be removed from deathcoil then. |
| 12:53.17 | [MoonWolf] | bhahahaaaha |
| 12:55.31 | Kirkburn | Lol [MoonWolf], I love that auto-kick :) |
| 12:56.07 | [MoonWolf] | :P |
| 13:00.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:16.29 | wereHamster | The new warrior talent.. *Unintended addition, will be removed in next build* .. is it really true? |
| 13:17.53 | Kaso | that sounds odd |
| 13:17.55 | Kalroth | yup |
| 13:18.10 | Kaso | perhaps its for an upcoming retalent for warriors and they added it early |
| 13:18.11 | Kirkburn | It's not where they wanted it to be |
| 13:18.12 | Kalroth | Vitality has been removed again |
| 13:18.29 | Kirkburn | It's not gone again forever, the devs just want to look at the talent position |
| 13:19.04 | Kaso | its a good talaent |
| 13:19.04 | GenNMX|Thrae | IRC -- Uniting the trashtalk of Horde and Alliance for 1.5 years. |
| 13:20.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 13:20.29 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 13:20.31 | Kalroth | wereHamster: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-warrior&T=1024137&P=1 (scroll down a little) |
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| 13:24.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0908.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 13:26.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge netcurse (n=net@dslb-088-064-179-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:27.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Codayus (n=cody@l0gical.net) |
| 13:31.00 | s|loup | can anyone tell me which texture netherwindfocus have? |
| 13:33.21 | Kaso | Spell_Shadow_Teleport |
| 13:34.24 | s|loup | thanks |
| 13:48.34 | Industrial | ige owns wowi? >_> |
| 13:49.13 | [MoonWolf] | very indirectly. |
| 13:49.19 | [MoonWolf] | and speculative. |
| 13:49.41 | Industrial | then what about the allakhazam thottbot wowi merge? |
| 13:50.06 | [MoonWolf] | well eeuh |
| 13:50.12 | [MoonWolf] | what merge??? |
| 13:50.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD9862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:53.03 | Industrial | it was in the allakhazam news |
| 13:58.54 | s|loup | allakhazam is part of ogaming ? |
| 13:59.02 | s|loup | wowi is part of ogaming? |
| 13:59.10 | s|loup | ogaming is part of ige? |
| 14:01.10 | Industrial | + thottbot |
| 14:01.20 | s|loup | thottbot is part of ige |
| 14:01.38 | Thrae | I don't think Ogaming is a part of IGE. |
| 14:01.54 | s|loup | someone has written a article about it |
| 14:02.07 | netcurse | :S |
| 14:02.22 | Industrial | url? :P |
| 14:02.35 | netcurse | ogaming is 100% owned by ige if you look at their US compagny :) |
| 14:02.53 | s|loup | and ogaming and ige are both at the same adress and same holder |
| 14:03.09 | Industrial | this concerns me |
| 14:03.10 | netcurse | Wie geht loup |
| 14:03.20 | s|loup | gut danke ^^ |
| 14:03.38 | s|loup | http://wow.azzor.com/445/truth_about_IGE.php |
| 14:03.40 | Industrial | I don't want to be part of any income other then my subscription with blizzard |
| 14:04.06 | Industrial | none, zero, 0 |
| 14:04.14 | Kirkburn | Oooh, US is getting the new authentication system today |
| 14:04.43 | Kirkburn | And no, IGE doesn't own them, it's more complicated than that |
| 14:05.15 | Kirkburn | They have the same parent company |
| 14:05.59 | Kirkburn | i.e. there's a lot more distance between WoWI and IGE than it might initially suggest |
| 14:08.04 | s|loup | look at navigation Ogaming Network -> Thottbot |
| 14:08.51 | s|loup | Thottbot was one of the first sites ige was taken over |
| 14:12.06 | Kirkburn | Bah, it's so confusing. I give up :) |
| 14:12.22 | Kirkburn | People having fun on the Test Realms? |
| 14:13.10 | Kaso | Disconnection every 5 seconds, fun fun |
| 14:13.17 | s|loup | hehe |
| 14:16.15 | haste | the EU at least is very stable... |
| 14:16.33 | haste | I was hoping I could get my addons ready for 1.11 before my exams started but... no.. |
| 14:16.53 | Kaso | stable? have you been on the pvp server? |
| 14:17.14 | haste | It crashed also when I tried :( |
| 14:17.35 | Kaso | mm, crashs every few seconds, i want to try out the mage talents :< |
| 14:17.56 | haste | I just want to fix my addons :( |
| 14:19.09 | wereHamster | haste, did you manage to log in into the EU PTR? |
| 14:19.28 | netcurse | EU prt is broken |
| 14:19.31 | netcurse | don t try it :> |
| 14:19.56 | haste | wereHamster: I managed to get in, pull forth the Are you ready? window while it lagged out |
| 14:20.03 | haste | and fix 1/3 addons which was borked |
| 14:20.42 | haste | I did at 04:30 CEST tho' |
| 14:22.12 | Maldivia | EU PTR pvp, works fine, if you create a lvl 1 toon... |
| 14:22.20 | Maldivia | copy over a char, and you're fucked |
| 14:22.50 | haste | It was borked to when I tried with a L1 |
| 14:22.57 | haste | but that was the second day it was up |
| 14:24.30 | haste | It's to late for now anyway, guess I have better luck next week |
| 14:28.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD9862.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:36.44 | Thrae | You know, we all villify IGE, but the reality is that IGE wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market and if Blizzard didn't take a half-assed stance about gold selling. If Blizzard wanted to, they could take on IGE for the selling of virtual property without Blizzard's approval, there IS legal precedent. |
| 14:37.50 | Thrae | But Blizzard (or, specifically Vivendi) doesn't want to take the money to fight IGE, since IGE is helping Blizzard as much as it is hurting, and that legal battle would be one COSTLY legal battle with no sure victory. |
| 14:38.38 | Beladona | not totally true |
| 14:38.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:38.47 | Beladona | but this is a debate that has thrived for a long time |
| 14:38.53 | Beladona | and doesn't really go anywhere |
| 14:38.56 | Thrae | Beladona: Which part? |
| 14:39.30 | Beladona | the team that made EverQuest tried to fight IGE and others, and the precedent was that they didn't succeed |
| 14:40.14 | Beladona | most legal precedent extends to players selling game content, like characters or items on ebay, but there isn't a legal precedent for the gold market |
| 14:40.23 | Beladona | yet |
| 14:40.37 | Thrae | Yeah, but other precedents have since arisen about virtual property. |
| 14:40.43 | Beladona | right |
| 14:41.01 | Beladona | companies like IGE get around that |
| 14:41.44 | Beladona | anyway, its a long standing issue, and I doubt anything will happen soon |
| 14:42.03 | Thrae | Right, it would be a very convoluted battle, but we're more well-equipped now to deal with it then we were back during the EQ days when the idea of a "Home Internet" was still in its infancy. |
| 14:42.04 | Beladona | I need opinions on something |
| 14:42.15 | Beladona | you guys think this would look good in-game as status bars? |
| 14:42.16 | Beladona | http://0ctavius.com/images/StatusBars.jpg |
| 14:42.29 | Thrae | Yeah, I don't think any company is going to take a stand anytime soon as well. |
| 14:42.57 | Beladona | Thrae - in some cases, such as EQ, they are fighting fire with fire |
| 14:43.06 | Beladona | by offering items and cash for sale on their own site |
| 14:43.08 | Thrae | Beladona: They look very professional. |
| 14:43.10 | Beladona | which makes sense |
| 14:43.22 | Beladona | if you can't beat the market, at least make some income from it |
| 14:43.29 | [MoonWolf] | looks good. |
| 14:43.52 | Thrae | Beladona: With SoE's track record, do you really think their main decision to sell gold and items was to thwart IGE? |
| 14:44.01 | Beladona | yes |
| 14:44.14 | Beladona | I am very certain that is where it started |
| 14:44.46 | Thrae | Do you have behind-the-scenes information, or just ancedotal like myself? |
| 14:44.47 | Beladona | re-sale of games and virtual property is a real issue for developing companies |
| 14:45.52 | Thrae | I'm not trying to be a prick, I'm just curious. |
| 14:46.23 | Beladona | looking for the article |
| 14:46.29 | Beladona | it was posted by John Smedley |
| 14:46.42 | Beladona | which I would say is pretty much from the horses mouth |
| 14:46.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:47.06 | Legorol^ | It would be very interesting to see how a legal battle between Blizzard and IGE would play out |
| 14:47.09 | Beladona | and this is EQ2, not EQ, I didn't make a distinction |
| 14:47.13 | Beladona | sorry |
| 14:47.31 | Legorol^ | What I'm most curious about is whether IGE still exists because Vivendi didn't sue them, or because they know they can't be sued effectively |
| 14:47.35 | Thrae | Well, you have to take an article like that with a grain of salt. I'm very distrusting of anything Sony, Vivendi, or Vident has to say. |
| 14:47.55 | Tain | I'm on the opinion that places like IGE exist because the game companies understand that they're good for business. |
| 14:48.07 | Legorol^ | so you think it's more like the first reason? |
| 14:48.14 | Legorol^ | could be sued legally but not? |
| 14:48.37 | Thrae | I was just curious if you had some reason to openly trust them, like a real-life relationship, insider information, etc. |
| 14:48.52 | Beladona | http://stationexchange.station.sony.com/faq.vm#WhatIsStationExchange |
| 14:48.54 | Tain | I'm not sure of the legal issues at all, I'd only be guessing that they could be sued. But I do think they turn a mostly blind eye because it keeps people playing and paying longer. |
| 14:49.07 | Beladona | that explains one of the reasons for the site, int very watered down, non-naming format |
| 14:49.40 | Beladona | they recognize the existence of the secondary virtual market, and the need to have a "secure SOE run site" for it sanctioned by the company |
| 14:49.41 | Thrae | You know, this discussion reminds me of the old Game Genie legal battles. Anyone remember the Game Genie for the Nintendo Entertainment System and future systems? |
| 14:49.52 | grimman | http://ui.dlxmedia.net/ ^^ |
| 14:50.46 | Thrae | Beladona: Call me paranoid, but I don't take anything a company says at face value. |
| 14:51.41 | Beladona | obviously |
| 14:51.46 | Kirkburn|Food | Countries like the US need to pass/define virtual property laws before anything real can be done |
| 14:51.55 | Beladona | everything they say (or most of anyway) is spun by PR |
| 14:52.16 | Thrae | Anyway, the parallel between Game Genie/Codemasters and IGE -- Nintendo tried to sue Codemasters, the makers of Game Genie (the first video game cheat device), and failed. |
| 14:52.27 | Kirkburn|Food | Until there's a good legal basis, no companies will sue, because they don't want the chance of losing and setting a legal precedent |
| 14:52.45 | Thrae | Later they realized the Game Genie was actually helping their sales, not hindering it. |
| 14:53.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:53.11 | Thrae | Nintendo also tried to sue some makers of game cheat books, because they felt the cheat books ruined the game for some people, lessening play and replay value. |
| 14:54.02 | Thrae | What Nintendo learned is what Sony learned -- some people LIKE to cheat, and would rather cheat through a game then play it normally. |
| 14:54.22 | Kirkburn|Food | Most cheats don't affect others, however |
| 14:55.02 | Kirkburn|Food | If you cheat in a game like WoW it adverselly affects a lot of other people's experience of the game |
| 14:55.07 | Legorol^ | yes, that is a very important point |
| 14:55.08 | netcurse | blizzard could do a lot more against gold farming BUT still when you buy you create a huge inflation on all the consumable and BoE items |
| 14:55.08 | Kirkburn|Food | *adversly |
| 14:55.23 | Thrae | Well, it depends on what TYPE of cheating. |
| 14:55.23 | netcurse | Also more people will buy gold more they WILL HAVE TO buy gold |
| 14:55.40 | Kirkburn|Food | One of the few ways Blizz can fight it, is making more items soulbound |
| 14:55.53 | Thrae | Blizzard could add items you pay real money to obtain that are similiar or even superior to current items in the game. |
| 14:55.57 | Legorol^ | the problem with being able to buy gold for real money is that it totally skews the supply/demand ratio that would otherwise be available in the game |
| 14:56.07 | Kirkburn|Food | Or making more stuff require quests |
| 14:56.18 | Thrae | That would be controlled cheating, and only make people have e-peen envy. |
| 14:56.33 | Legorol^ | a game designer such as Blizzard has to put a lot of effort into making sure the demand and supply of high quality items in-game is under control |
| 14:56.47 | Legorol^ | the secondary market totally upsets that balance |
| 14:56.58 | Legorol^ | (same goes for gold) |
| 14:56.59 | Kirkburn|Food | Items set aside for gold buyers would only create a partition in the game |
| 14:57.12 | Kirkburn|Food | People would not group with gold buyers |
| 14:57.41 | Thrae | Kirkburn|Food: They wouldn't be for gold buyers, they'd just be items you can buy from Blizzard themselves. There's a BIG difference. |
| 14:58.13 | Beladona | I have seen game economies before that use inverse economics to combat gold sale inflation, and it works very well |
| 14:58.30 | Beladona | not sure why wow hasn't done something like that yet |
| 14:58.31 | Legorol^ | Beladona: could you explain that in more detail? |
| 14:58.36 | Thrae | "Inverse economics"? Never heard that term before. |
| 14:58.36 | Legorol^ | i am very curious, what's inverse economics? |
| 14:58.48 | Beladona | basically the more gold in the market, the lower items cost on vendors |
| 14:58.59 | Beladona | it is dynamically driven by gold consumption |
| 14:59.00 | Legorol^ | ah, but that wouldn't work in WoW |
| 14:59.01 | Kirkburn|Food | The less items sell for? |
| 14:59.12 | Beladona | scuse mke |
| 14:59.13 | Legorol^ | because vendors don't sell squat |
| 14:59.17 | Beladona | its the reverse |
| 14:59.21 | Beladona | the LESS gold in the market |
| 14:59.28 | Beladona | the more you SPEND lowers prices |
| 14:59.39 | Beladona | thats where the inverse part comes in |
| 15:00.01 | Beladona | it encourages people NOT to have too much cash sitting around |
| 15:00.06 | Kirkburn|Food | I think I see where you're coming from |
| 15:00.08 | Legorol^ | ehm... let me get this straight |
| 15:00.24 | Legorol^ | so the more gold is around in the community, the more things cost |
| 15:00.30 | Beladona | basically |
| 15:00.30 | Legorol^ | how is that not the same as ordinary economics? |
| 15:00.33 | Kirkburn|Food | People would worry about vendor prices jumping all over the place |
| 15:00.41 | Beladona | its inverse from the norm of mmorpg |
| 15:00.50 | [MoonWolf] | wouldnt that fuck the economy for people who dont buy gold ? |
| 15:01.01 | [MoonWolf] | because you can bet it still happens. |
| 15:01.03 | Thrae | There are a lot of innovative fixes to the gold selling phenomenon, but one of the main hurdles isn't imagination, it's implementation. WoW's database makes complex scripting ineffecient. |
| 15:01.12 | Beladona | not really Moonwolf |
| 15:01.23 | Beladona | people stop hoarding money |
| 15:01.25 | Legorol^ | i had the same thought as Moonwolf |
| 15:01.54 | Thrae | From what I can tell, WoW's database is always running beyond it's threshold and they're scrambling to fix the problems. |
| 15:01.58 | Kalroth | the only way to fix gold selling/etc is to make gold non-tradeable, everything else will pretty much fail |
| 15:02.03 | Legorol^ | Bela: but if it's simply based ont he amount of gold on characters, |
| 15:02.04 | [MoonWolf] | but WILL they. |
| 15:02.10 | Legorol^ | that doesn't affect the spending power of a player |
| 15:02.18 | Beladona | the way I have seen it done is by use of a tax |
| 15:02.24 | Legorol^ | all you are eliminating is hoarding, not the fact that someone who buys gold has a much larger spending power |
| 15:02.31 | Beladona | the tax is calculated once per day |
| 15:02.38 | Beladona | rf online uses this system |
| 15:03.10 | netcurse | well |
| 15:03.13 | [MoonWolf] | anyway, even if you implement it now, I dont think the gold sellers in the game will go away |
| 15:03.21 | [MoonWolf] | simply because some people still want to buy gold. |
| 15:03.25 | netcurse | rf online tax system isn t exactly the same |
| 15:03.28 | Beladona | no they wont |
| 15:03.31 | netcurse | it helps also fighting against pop balance |
| 15:03.31 | Beladona | thats the point |
| 15:03.58 | netcurse | ( i was lvl 42 i know what i talk about :p) |
| 15:04.02 | [MoonWolf] | yes they will, they dont want to spend time getting more money no matter how high or low the tax is righ tnow. |
| 15:04.20 | Beladona | netcurse, so was I |
| 15:04.36 | netcurse | what server ? |
| 15:04.40 | Beladona | water |
| 15:04.45 | netcurse | i played on fire |
| 15:04.54 | Beladona | I quit when I ran out of stuff to do at the end game |
| 15:05.03 | netcurse | well ether was just boring |
| 15:05.08 | Beladona | very |
| 15:05.10 | netcurse | we are all 40+ |
| 15:05.13 | netcurse | in curse |
| 15:05.15 | Beladona | and 0.01% per kill is stupid |
| 15:05.20 | netcurse | then we quit and went back to wow |
| 15:05.23 | [MoonWolf] | xp ? |
| 15:05.25 | Beladona | yeah |
| 15:05.28 | [MoonWolf] | wow |
| 15:05.39 | [MoonWolf] | only a 100.000 kills. |
| 15:05.43 | netcurse | i had a spear 40 4 talic igno |
| 15:05.45 | netcurse | intense |
| 15:05.49 | netcurse | it was nice :> |
| 15:05.59 | Beladona | the problem is that RF Online doesn't have mobs for players over about 45 |
| 15:06.05 | Beladona | except bosses |
| 15:06.12 | Beladona | which are too inneficient to level off of |
| 15:06.39 | Beladona | it could take literally a week to go from 42 to 43 |
| 15:06.52 | Beladona | maybe 4 or 5 days of hardcore |
| 15:06.52 | netcurse | nana |
| 15:06.55 | Tain | A week! |
| 15:06.58 | netcurse | we made it in 2 days |
| 15:07.02 | netcurse | with 20 24 pulling |
| 15:07.07 | netcurse | and 2 full time puller |
| 15:07.11 | netcurse | i quit at this moment |
| 15:07.14 | Legorol^ | Ok, my basic problem is this: no matter what clever system you implement in-game, how is that going to combat the fact that |
| 15:07.14 | Beladona | thats what I mean |
| 15:07.17 | netcurse | because i was going to go crazy :> |
| 15:07.19 | Beladona | you have to hardcore it to get anywhere |
| 15:07.22 | Legorol^ | some players want to spend 0 time in-game to get money |
| 15:07.28 | Legorol^ | and instead are willing to dish out $$ |
| 15:07.40 | Legorol^ | it might be they have a 7-figure salary |
| 15:07.41 | Tain | I guess I'm the only one who remembers the original EverQuest levels. |
| 15:07.44 | Beladona | you can't combat it |
| 15:07.56 | Thrae | Legorol^: How much of the population do you think actually LIKES farming for themselves? |
| 15:07.57 | Kirkburn|Food | Tain, what were they like? |
| 15:08.06 | Beladona | you can only make limit the damage it can do to the economy, and to others as a result |
| 15:08.09 | Beladona | in my opinion |
| 15:08.10 | Legorol^ | Thrae: very small portion |
| 15:08.18 | Legorol^ | Beladona: right |
| 15:08.34 | netcurse | i was cora tho |
| 15:08.38 | netcurse | best xp race imo |
| 15:08.41 | Beladona | its not easy to do, but I know it can be done |
| 15:08.43 | Thrae | Tain: The demo is still clear in my mind. Man I loved it back then! I mean, it was SO cool! |
| 15:08.44 | Tain | A week to go through a level in EQ was a quick level, after 50. Well after say 53 |
| 15:08.46 | Beladona | I was Cora also |
| 15:08.49 | Legorol^ | I guess we can look at it this way. A computer game is designed based on the principle of effort->reward |
| 15:08.50 | netcurse | xp as accretian is a pain in the ass |
| 15:08.52 | Beladona | Grazier |
| 15:08.53 | netcurse | dps/3 |
| 15:08.59 | Legorol^ | (whatever effort might be, it might just be time-investment) |
| 15:09.11 | krka|work | as in wow :P |
| 15:09.15 | Legorol^ | A *badly* designed game makes the effort part boring |
| 15:09.19 | krka|work | as in wow :P |
| 15:09.22 | Legorol^ | yup |
| 15:09.29 | Tain | Thrae: I have the EQ intro in an AVI file. Somewhere... heh |
| 15:09.30 | Legorol^ | A well designed game makes the effort part interesting |
| 15:09.34 | netcurse | i was templar |
| 15:09.45 | Tain | WoW already levels too quickly, in my opinion. |
| 15:09.49 | Legorol^ | In either case, there will be people who are unwilling to put in any effort and instead buy the reward |
| 15:09.58 | netcurse | wow leveling is solo oriented |
| 15:10.00 | Kirkburn|Food | Am I right in recalling 60-70 in WoW is supposed to be comparable to 1-60? |
| 15:10.02 | netcurse | the time it take is fune |
| 15:10.05 | netcurse | fine |
| 15:10.13 | Legorol^ | Tain: depends on what the aim of the game is |
| 15:10.14 | netcurse | it should be group oriented and x5 longer |
| 15:10.15 | netcurse | :P |
| 15:10.20 | Tain | In my opinion levelling in WoW is absurdly fast. |
| 15:10.30 | krka|work | already is too group based imo |
| 15:10.32 | Legorol^ | Ok, question: *why* is there levelling in a mmorpg in the first place? |
| 15:10.35 | Maldivia | Kirkburn: it wont be, more likely like 40-60 |
| 15:10.35 | netcurse | but atm it s solo... so you can t have same level scaling as eq:) |
| 15:10.36 | Tain | Too group baseD?!#~$@IJi32o5yrioph |
| 15:10.38 | Legorol^ | What purpose does it serve? |
| 15:10.39 | krka|work | i can't solo worth crap with my priest |
| 15:10.42 | Tain | WoW is a damn solo game until 60. |
| 15:10.47 | netcurse | i said this |
| 15:10.50 | netcurse | re read :> |
| 15:10.54 | Legorol^ | Because many people seem to want to jump to 60 straight away |
| 15:10.59 | krka|work | Legorol, makes player stay around longer |
| 15:11.05 | Beladona | it keeps people feeling as though there is something to attain |
| 15:11.06 | Tain | People will always want to jump to max level. |
| 15:11.08 | Tain | That's not the point. |
| 15:11.10 | Beladona | which creates replay value |
| 15:11.19 | krka|work | i don't want to reach 60. really |
| 15:11.20 | Beladona | the almighty treadmill |
| 15:11.22 | krka|work | i play for the quests |
| 15:11.22 | Legorol^ | krka: exactly, it seems that for the majority of people, that's the *only* purpose it serves |
| 15:11.31 | Legorol^ | it is very few people who actually enjoy re-leveling |
| 15:11.33 | Thrae | I still think the next popular MMORPG will implement a level system where levels are determined by the culmination of your skill points, and different group content is accessible at each level range. |
| 15:11.34 | krka|work | nothing for me to do at 60 |
| 15:11.48 | Kirkburn|Food | I think as long as it takes at least a week for someone like Joanna to make it to 70, I'll be happy =) |
| 15:11.49 | Legorol^ | I am not talking about you personally ;) |
| 15:11.55 | Tain | I actually like Eve Online's system. Not that it would work for every game, but I really like it. |
| 15:11.56 | Beladona | there are games already that use skill based levelling instead of character levelling |
| 15:12.05 | Beladona | just none that are MMORPGs I think |
| 15:12.08 | Legorol^ | Still, they requrie time investment |
| 15:12.10 | krka|work | War3 FTW |
| 15:12.11 | Tain | You don't get a character level at all. |
| 15:12.14 | Legorol^ | Beladona: Saga of Ryzom |
| 15:12.19 | krka|work | war3s ladder was perfect |
| 15:12.20 | krka|work | imo |
| 15:12.27 | Thrae | The problem with the traditional MMORPGs coming out now is the content themselves are end-game heavy. |
| 15:12.30 | Tain | Of course there's time investment, anytime you have a game that charges monthly you have to build in a time investment requirement. |
| 15:12.33 | krka|work | in fact, war3 was pretty much perfect |
| 15:12.42 | Tain | That's the only way they'll be successful, Thrae. |
| 15:12.49 | Legorol^ | Ok, so let's look at what I like in WoW. I actually enjoy the levelling part very much |
| 15:12.56 | Legorol^ | i love the quest content, the instances, the gruping etc. |
| 15:12.59 | Thrae | Tain: Level is a way to inflate your own e-peen, nothing more, nothing less, kidding aside. |
| 15:13.12 | Legorol^ | There are many zones/quests i still haven't done, for me it has tremendous replay value |
| 15:13.17 | Legorol^ | But i think i am in a very small minority here |
| 15:13.23 | Tain | Well, I'd say that gear with high numbers on it falls into that category more than level. |
| 15:13.29 | Legorol^ | Most people, once they hit 60 once, want to hit it asap with their 2nd char |
| 15:13.30 | Beladona | personally I am a fan of games like Guild Wars. They use a low levelling system, meant mainly to get you to learn, and then the rest of the game is about skills, builds, and how you play your character |
| 15:13.48 | Thrae | Tain: People usually find skill point systems confusing, because they can't equate "100/1023 in Mace, 221/452 in Magery" to "Level 15" |
| 15:13.52 | Beladona | it rewards innovation and player skill over play time |
| 15:13.52 | krka|work | i'm with you there Legorol |
| 15:13.54 | netcurse | GW is nice :) |
| 15:13.56 | netcurse | very competitive |
| 15:14.07 | Tain | Of course I like Dungeons and Dragons Online, when it comes to just enjoying quests. :) |
| 15:14.28 | krka|work | the general public is obsessed with numbers, that's it |
| 15:14.28 | Beladona | I would play an MMORPG based on Elder Scrolls |
| 15:14.29 | Tain | Maybe Thrae, but what do people get excited about when they see gear screenshots? The big numbesr. |
| 15:14.33 | Legorol^ | For me personally, (except for some grinding), the levelling content in WoW is very nice |
| 15:14.35 | Beladona | like Oblivion |
| 15:14.39 | krka|work | they want bigger numbers than their peers |
| 15:14.40 | krka|work | that's it |
| 15:14.45 | Legorol^ | not just that, krka |
| 15:14.48 | Legorol^ | they want more power as well |
| 15:14.48 | Tain | Not the fact that it's a level 60 requirement |
| 15:15.11 | Legorol^ | I wouldn't say this applies to all people though, there are plenty of WoW players that don't care about numbers or power |
| 15:15.16 | Legorol^ | i'd divide people in two sets: |
| 15:15.19 | Tain | Beladona: I'd like an online game based on Elder Scrolls, but in the current system I'd rather it be more like a Diablo multiplayer than persistent online. |
| 15:15.28 | Legorol^ | Those that care about stats, want to be more powerful than others |
| 15:15.29 | Beladona | the other thing I like about the way GW does it is that it leaves some uncertainty to pvp |
| 15:15.31 | Thrae | Tain: True, but the more numbers you involve, the more people tend to get confused. |
| 15:15.31 | Legorol^ | And those that don't |
| 15:15.38 | Beladona | just because you are max level and have good skills doesn't mean you will win |
| 15:15.48 | Beladona | you can always meet someone who plays better |
| 15:16.27 | Legorol^ | The whole reason for there being PvP and PvE servers imo is because there are competitive and non-competitive players |
| 15:16.27 | Thrae | Beladona: No, good ping means you'll win ;) |
| 15:16.27 | Beladona | and team based gameplay is MUCH more important |
| 15:16.27 | Legorol^ | hehe |
| 15:16.27 | krka|work | nah lego |
| 15:16.27 | Tain | I dont' think it's that simplified at all, Legorol. |
| 15:16.27 | Legorol^ | yeah i am making it a bit simple |
| 15:16.27 | netcurse | GW pvp is = 50% skill 40% team build 10% luck :> |
| 15:16.28 | Legorol^ | i am not saying people on PvE are not competitive |
| 15:16.32 | Tain | Being competative has nothing to do with not wanting to fight against other people. |
| 15:16.32 | krka|work | the competition is mostly about getting the good gear |
| 15:16.32 | Legorol^ | just competitive in different ways |
| 15:16.41 | Legorol^ | yes i agree with that, sorry |
| 15:16.42 | krka|work | killing random people on pvp is something different, i think |
| 15:16.47 | Thrae | Which is another point -- I think WoW is still too uncaring about latency and reaction time. |
| 15:16.51 | Legorol^ | i take it back, i completely agree with you guys |
| 15:16.56 | Thrae | DAoC was horribly uncaring about it. |
| 15:17.01 | Tain | There's simply multiplayer competative, and multiplayer cooperative. That's the big difference. |
| 15:17.09 | Legorol^ | anyways, as long as there are players that are competitive, there will be players that will want to get the competitive edge without effort |
| 15:17.10 | Beladona | right, whereas wow pvp is 60% level/gear, 30% group/raid, 10% skill |
| 15:17.25 | Legorol^ | It's always very interesting to see who/what/why uses cheat codes in computer games and who doesn't |
| 15:17.49 | Beladona | I don't get how someone can feel like they beat a game when they cheated at it |
| 15:17.58 | Tain | But it isn't always about beating the game. |
| 15:18.12 | Legorol^ | that's an important point we hit on, i think |
| 15:18.16 | Thrae | If I want a timesink, I'll play WoW ;) |
| 15:18.18 | Legorol^ | what makes a player feel "successful" |
| 15:18.19 | krka|work | i don't think of wow as a competitive game, since it's mostly about being social and investing time |
| 15:18.29 | Tain | It's about enjoying a gaming experience, and some people enjoy being overpowered, or having everything that a game can provide. |
| 15:18.31 | krka|work | i can see how rts / fps games are competitive |
| 15:18.40 | Beladona | I mean, if all you care about is getting through the story, and not how you got there, then go watch a damn movie |
| 15:18.48 | Tain | I do think WoW is very competative, for a lot of people. |
| 15:18.54 | Legorol^ | krka: many people in WoW see it as competitive, if not in the PvP sense, but in the sense of gear |
| 15:19.00 | Legorol^ | completing raids |
| 15:19.01 | Legorol^ | etc. |
| 15:19.05 | Legorol^ | i agree with Tain |
| 15:19.15 | Tain | Otherwise guilds wouldn't rush to try to be the first to kill Onyxia's Cousin's Barber in the new raid zone. |
| 15:19.19 | Legorol^ | there is even intra-guild competition! |
| 15:19.27 | Legorol^ | for example, people have to compete for raid slots.. |
| 15:19.38 | Legorol^ | now if you are there to enjoy content, and your ability to enjoy content is dependent on how good gear you have, |
| 15:19.42 | krka|work | yeah, it's just that the competition part is about spending the most time |
| 15:19.42 | Thrae | Beladona -- I loathe having to play the same map 15 times just to find that one secret. I'd rather cheat to find the secret. Usually, the secret is still hard to get, just not so damn repetitive. |
| 15:19.46 | krka|work | which kinda sucks |
| 15:19.52 | krka|work | also, organizing raids |
| 15:20.03 | krka|work | organizing skills is not something i look for in a game :) |
| 15:20.07 | Beladona | thats where we differ |
| 15:20.18 | Tain | But with single player games that's fine. |
| 15:20.32 | Legorol^ | yes with single player games, everyone can play it however they like to |
| 15:20.35 | Beladona | the feeling I get from solving something without having the answer there for me, is much more than just beating it in 5 seconds because I was told how |
| 15:20.44 | Tain | I'm of the opinion that someone should be able to do whatever they want in a single player game, including cheating to all high hell. If that's what they want. |
| 15:20.46 | Legorol^ | krka: i agree that in WoW currently the biggest factor in competing seems to be time investment |
| 15:20.52 | Legorol^ | that is kind of fine with me |
| 15:20.55 | Legorol^ | except for one thing: |
| 15:21.05 | Beladona | not to mention there is a big difference in brain development to children if they are forced to figure out puzzles instead of being told how it works |
| 15:21.08 | Legorol^ | Blizzard hasn't provided a mechanism to be able to do this time investment in a staggered manner |
| 15:21.16 | Legorol^ | having to sit through a raid in one go is a big problem for me |
| 15:21.19 | Wobin_ | You can't put WoW on pause =) |
| 15:21.21 | krka|work | heh, i thottbot for quests that are about finding stuff, and still enjoy the quesdts |
| 15:21.26 | Thrae | I'm far from beind a child, myself. |
| 15:21.26 | Legorol^ | i don't mind if i have to spend 20 hours total, over 3 weeks, to complete a raid |
| 15:21.27 | krka|work | guess i'm a cheater |
| 15:21.30 | Legorol^ | but that's not an option |
| 15:21.33 | Tain | That's a whole different issue once you start getting into what parents should be doing with their children, Beladona :) |
| 15:21.35 | krka|work | kinda relaxing just mindlessly killing murlocs |
| 15:21.38 | Beladona | your brain doesn't stop developing |
| 15:21.42 | Beladona | it just slows down |
| 15:21.47 | Wobin_ | Goo? |
| 15:21.50 | Wobin_ | Waaaah |
| 15:21.52 | Legorol^ | krka: i wouldn't call someone using TB a cheater |
| 15:21.52 | Beladona | unless you don't use it of course |
| 15:22.06 | Legorol^ | although i do not use TB myself, it serves a lot of people's purpose |
| 15:22.10 | krka|work | really? you skip away the investigative part of the quests |
| 15:22.15 | Thrae | Beladona: If I get frustrated enough that I want to stop playing the game, that's when I cheat. |
| 15:22.19 | krka|work | you can argue you gain an unfair advantage |
| 15:22.25 | Legorol^ | krka: some people dont' like that part |
| 15:22.27 | krka|work | you spend less time on the quests than people who don't use TB |
| 15:22.31 | Beladona | if I get frustrated and can't beat something, I take a break |
| 15:22.32 | krka|work | thus you level faster et.c. |
| 15:22.37 | Legorol^ | krka: that is absolutely correct |
| 15:22.40 | Beladona | I usually beat within 2 minutes after I come back |
| 15:22.42 | Legorol^ | but i don't consider that advantage "unfair" |
| 15:22.48 | krka|work | same reason people thought AT was cheating, i guess |
| 15:22.49 | Legorol^ | ok, this is how i look at it |
| 15:23.02 | Legorol^ | the content in a mmorpg is vast |
| 15:23.08 | Legorol^ | i don't expect to be able to discover it all by myself |
| 15:23.19 | Legorol^ | i do beleive that one of the nice things is finding out information i need via social interaction |
| 15:23.23 | Beladona | there are grey areas |
| 15:23.26 | Legorol^ | so i don't hesitate to ask in guild when i am stuck |
| 15:23.30 | Thrae | Beladona: I have horrible reflexes and virtually no twitch action, so sometimes I need a balancing edge with action games. |
| 15:23.30 | Beladona | research should be allowed |
| 15:23.39 | Legorol^ | TB, in a way, is just an extention of that, it's the accumulation of community knowledge |
| 15:23.48 | Legorol^ | however it goes a bit too far for my liking, that's why i don't use it |
| 15:23.56 | Tain | I don't think using an outside source for quests gives someone an unfair advantage for the main fact that you can *generally* get equivilent exp and equipment in other ways than doing that quest. |
| 15:23.57 | Legorol^ | i much prefer asking real people than a database ;-) |
| 15:23.57 | Beladona | example -- I recently played the "DaVinci Code" game |
| 15:24.04 | Beladona | talk about good brain puzzles |
| 15:24.21 | Beladona | and research? sure, but you have to actually do real research |
| 15:24.30 | krka|work | Tain, you also get rep though :) |
| 15:24.33 | Thrae | I never cheat on puzzles. |
| 15:24.51 | Legorol^ | krka, also I am very happy to put effort into trying to do the investigative part of the quest, as i enjoy it |
| 15:24.55 | Legorol^ | i only ever ask when i am really stuck |
| 15:25.02 | Legorol^ | lots of people on the other hand don't even want to bother |
| 15:25.06 | Legorol^ | to them, i say, go to TB |
| 15:25.13 | Beladona | like, looking up the name of the fourth wing of an old church, that housed some of DaVinci's artwork in xxx year |
| 15:25.14 | krka|work | i just use TB to find locations, basically |
| 15:25.15 | Legorol^ | so that they don't waste other peoples time |
| 15:25.30 | Thrae | Beladona: What I am mostly talking about is repetitive gameplay, not puzzles. |
| 15:25.36 | Legorol^ | krka: i don't have a problem with it if you used TB for anything at all ;-) |
| 15:25.49 | Beladona | I see it all as puzzles |
| 15:25.50 | Legorol^ | and i can see how using it for locations doesn't effect your enjoyment of quests significantly |
| 15:26.07 | Beladona | everythign is about strategy, tactics |
| 15:26.10 | Beladona | for me |
| 15:26.40 | Beladona | it only becomes repetitive after I have done it once |
| 15:26.45 | Thrae | Beladona: You reach a door. It says "You must be level 20 to pass this door". You are level 10. |
| 15:26.45 | Beladona | and at that point I know the answer anyway |
| 15:26.46 | krka|work | i miss the tactical aspect of the game |
| 15:26.51 | Tain | I simply wouldn't play if I had to try to remember where Lashtail Raptors are in Stranglethorn Veil and run around the entire zone trying to find them. |
| 15:26.53 | krka|work | sure, pvp combat has some tactics |
| 15:26.57 | krka|work | but it's mostly reactions |
| 15:27.06 | krka|work | compared to RTS games anyway |
| 15:27.12 | Legorol^ | good tactics in group PvP can make a huge difference |
| 15:27.21 | Legorol^ | i find that it's more important than reactions |
| 15:27.23 | Beladona | Thrae, from that I would surmise that there is something I should be doing to reach 20 in order to proceed |
| 15:27.33 | Beladona | I wouldn't go and use some code to get 20 right away |
| 15:27.34 | krka|work | never player battlegrounds so i can't really comment on that |
| 15:27.58 | krka|work | just talking about outdoors 1v1 pvp |
| 15:27.58 | krka|work | which i always lose :( |
| 15:27.58 | Thrae | Beladona: Right, you need to fight the same monsters for 100 battles to reach Level 20. |
| 15:27.58 | Legorol^ | a practiced guild group with mediocre skilled players will wipe the floor with a random group of l33t kids |
| 15:28.07 | Legorol^ | krka: yes unfortunatley 1v1 pvp is about reactions |
| 15:28.15 | Beladona | its still part of the journey |
| 15:28.24 | Legorol^ | if you want tactics, i thoroughly suggest getting into a guild group doing say WSG regularly |
| 15:28.29 | krka|work | a practiced guild group wouldn't be called mediocre then |
| 15:28.36 | Legorol^ | but you were talking about reactions |
| 15:28.41 | krka|work | ah i see |
| 15:28.41 | Beladona | I can see maybe lessening the level grind difficulty for people who have reached 60 already |
| 15:28.43 | Wobin_ | Beladona: There was a Da Vinci Code game? |
| 15:28.46 | Legorol^ | i meant mediocre on the skill level of the individual |
| 15:28.47 | Wobin_ | Beladona: *sob* |
| 15:28.49 | Beladona | maybe increased xp rate or something |
| 15:28.56 | Legorol^ | you can have players that are slow reacting, tittering around |
| 15:28.59 | Tain | In PVP there is a big difference in gear levels as well though. |
| 15:29.01 | Thrae | Beladona: So under your opinion, game design isn't a cause of cheating, it's all about the person's own "adversion to puzzles"? |
| 15:29.01 | Legorol^ | as long as they know the strategy and follow it |
| 15:29.05 | Kirkburn|Food | On Google, there is Wobin_ |
| 15:29.06 | krka|work | i let my addons do the reacting for me :P |
| 15:29.11 | Thrae | s/game design/poor game design/. |
| 15:29.12 | krka|work | helps mostly in pve though |
| 15:29.12 | Legorol^ | hehe |
| 15:29.20 | Beladona | I think its a mixture of both Thrae |
| 15:29.22 | Tain | Ah well see there's people who feel using ANY addons in WoW is cheating. |
| 15:29.23 | Thrae | I'm not saying it's the ONLY cause, I'm saying it IS one. |
| 15:29.29 | Legorol^ | I agree with Beladona |
| 15:29.34 | Beladona | bad game design pushes people who WOULD cheat to cheat |
| 15:29.48 | Wobin_ | That's true |
| 15:29.49 | Legorol^ | that's what i meant earlier when i said that you can have poor game design, and that people will always cheat, even with good game design |
| 15:29.50 | Beladona | but people who wouldn't still adhere to the game mechanics |
| 15:29.55 | Beladona | would* |
| 15:30.09 | Wobin_ | If the game is engrossing enough, and the difficulty factor is challenging but not impossible, I won't cheat =) |
| 15:30.33 | Thrae | True, but people who cheat when they encounter bad game design are different then people who cheat regardless. |
| 15:30.33 | Legorol^ | and that's where the boringness of grinding causes problems |
| 15:30.33 | Tain | Yes Beladona, that can be the case. But good game design is subjective to the player in many cases. |
| 15:30.40 | Beladona | like I said, I will walk away from a game for a while, long before I would cheat on it |
| 15:30.47 | Beladona | but thats me |
| 15:30.51 | Wobin_ | But once it loses the engrossing factor, cheating becomes easier to use to get to the more interesting parts of the game |
| 15:31.05 | Thrae | Of course, people may disagree with me when I say too much repetitiveness is a part of bad game design. |
| 15:31.10 | Beladona | another reason why I like games like Guild Wars |
| 15:31.16 | Legorol^ | and this is where individual subject taste comes into play |
| 15:31.30 | Beladona | once you unlock the stuff on one character, you are reqarded by being able to make a PVP only character with access to all fo the stuff you unlocked |
| 15:31.43 | Legorol^ | for me, the idea that i stuck through with it and got to my goal *despite* the poor or boring game design is a big satisfaction factor |
| 15:31.44 | Tain | A form of repetativeness is a requirement in a game that has a monthly fee for subcribers. |
| 15:31.44 | Beladona | regarded = rewarded |
| 15:31.45 | Thrae | Beladona: Well, I think the discussion here is mostly about single-player games, not multiplayer ones. |
| 15:31.57 | Thrae | At least, that's what I was talking about. |
| 15:32.03 | Beladona | perfect example |
| 15:32.15 | Beladona | Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion |
| 15:32.22 | Beladona | no one can say that game is repetitive |
| 15:32.25 | Beladona | are there cheats? |
| 15:32.26 | Beladona | sure |
| 15:32.34 | Legorol^ | gotta go, pity i miss rest of discussion |
| 15:32.35 | Legorol^ | have fun ;-) |
| 15:32.46 | krka|work | bye lego |
| 15:32.48 | Beladona | the game is well designed, but people will cheat anyway |
| 15:32.56 | Tain | Of course they will. |
| 15:33.03 | Tain | I think the only problem is looking at it like that is a problem. |
| 15:33.07 | Thrae | Beladona: I don't think anyone here would disagree with you when you say bad game design is not the only factor. |
| 15:33.15 | Beladona | the problem is one of expectation |
| 15:33.16 | Thrae | Bah! Double negative =/ |
| 15:33.22 | Tain | Only yours though, Beladona. |
| 15:33.26 | Beladona | people today aren't EXPECTED to beat games legitimately |
| 15:33.40 | Beladona | no I meant in general |
| 15:33.43 | Tain | I don't agree with that. |
| 15:34.03 | Thrae | Are we talking about MMORPGs or are we talking about single-player games now? |
| 15:34.22 | Beladona | if people were expected to beat a game legitimately, cheat codes would not be accessible in the game without third party cracking |
| 15:34.55 | Tain | I think that's coming to a conclusion that isn't necessarily there based on the evidence. |
| 15:35.26 | Tain | Just because cheat codes exist in a game doesn't mean the game was designed with the expectation that players would use them. |
| 15:35.39 | Wobin_ | Beladona: You could possbily say that if there was a 'Cheat Menu' on the main menu |
| 15:35.51 | Tain | The expectation is that SOME players will use them. |
| 15:36.18 | Beladona | right Tain |
| 15:36.21 | Beladona | thats my point |
| 15:36.31 | Kirkburn|Food | About half an hour until Vista Beta 2 gets unveiled I think |
| 15:36.43 | Tain | But I fail to see any evidence that the game was designed any differently for the players that don't use cheat codes. |
| 15:36.47 | Beladona | hence, no expectation |
| 15:37.19 | Beladona | and I know it has a lot to do with marketability and replay value |
| 15:37.29 | Beladona | but it wouldn't be a problem if cheating hadn't grown to what it is now |
| 15:37.34 | Tain | It isn't a problem. |
| 15:38.08 | Beladona | again this is all my opinion, bear that in mind |
| 15:38.15 | Beladona | but I still think that cheating is a problem socially |
| 15:38.54 | Thrae | How so? |
| 15:38.58 | Tain | In a single player game I don't think it matters one bit. In a multiplayer game I think it can. |
| 15:39.01 | Beladona | if you want to make a system where you can enter codes to earn special abilities, and extra features, fine, but make it part of the game to earn those codes |
| 15:39.13 | Tain | What game does that? |
| 15:39.35 | Thrae | Beladona, you're confusing us here because we can't tell if you're making a distinction between multiplayer and single player games on this issue. |
| 15:39.41 | krka|work | i am actually making a game right now where buying codes gives you an advantage :P |
| 15:39.53 | Beladona | I am just talking |
| 15:40.04 | zenzelezz | I used to think that cheat codes were mostly there to help the developers during development (when I started gaming) |
| 15:40.11 | Beladona | general theory on cheating |
| 15:40.12 | Tain | They were, zenzelezz. |
| 15:40.28 | Beladona | they started that way |
| 15:40.30 | Tain | But they did get left in, or added in more. |
| 15:40.39 | Beladona | I think early games left them exposed, on accident |
| 15:40.45 | Beladona | and players took advantage of them |
| 15:40.45 | Thrae | So you feel someone cheating in a single player game is just as morally reprehensible as someone cheating in a multiplayer game? |
| 15:40.47 | krka|work | idspispopd |
| 15:41.05 | Beladona | but today, many developers leave them exposed on purpose |
| 15:41.07 | Tain | It is Doom that spawned most of it, in my opinion. |
| 15:41.12 | Beladona | knowing that some people will want to cheat, no matter what |
| 15:41.16 | Tain | idkfa |
| 15:41.17 | zenzelezz | unite the clans |
| 15:41.43 | Beladona | GameGenie had a good effect on it too |
| 15:41.53 | krka|work | iddqd |
| 15:41.55 | Tain | That's just where the conclusions drift. I don't see anything wrong with someone cheating in a single player game. |
| 15:42.00 | Beladona | people grew up with a gamegenie in their NES |
| 15:42.11 | Thrae | Mmm, Doom -- when I was a teenager, the God Mode was an excellent stress reliever. Kept me playing long after I had beaten Doom. |
| 15:42.13 | Tain | They paid their money, they can enjoy a game however they want. |
| 15:42.26 | Beladona | I agree Tain |
| 15:42.32 | Beladona | I just don't like the trend |
| 15:42.36 | krka|work | maphacks in sc were the worst :/ |
| 15:42.41 | Tain | I don't know, I can see the Gamegenie being an issue but the fact that it cost extra money makes a difference to me. |
| 15:42.42 | Beladona | I for one will do my best to deter my kids from cheating |
| 15:42.50 | Beladona | but its all about principle |
| 15:42.55 | krka|work | i for one welcome our new cheating overlords |
| 15:43.29 | Beladona | I in no way think everyone in the world should stop cheating |
| 15:43.31 | Beladona | thats unrealistic |
| 15:44.01 | Tain | There are times I've used guides to cheat at a puzzle after I've figured it out and am playing through again and it's one of those long pain in the ass mult-step puzzles. |
| 15:44.14 | Beladona | anyway, new subject: you guys see that new Spore game coming out? |
| 15:44.15 | Tain | But with a puzzle I don't think I've ever looked up a solution first. |
| 15:44.22 | krka|work | i even cheat at the sudokus in the free morning newspapers |
| 15:44.24 | krka|work | :/ |
| 15:44.27 | Tain | haha krka |
| 15:44.34 | Beladona | nice |
| 15:44.44 | krka|work | not today though! |
| 15:44.54 | Tain | I'm averting my eyes from Spore, Beladona. I saw the different gameplay videos and I really want to play it. |
| 15:45.04 | Tain | I don't want to get excited about it since it's so far away though. |
| 15:45.04 | Beladona | me 2 |
| 15:45.13 | Tain | So it doesn't exist to me until it's out. |
| 15:45.14 | Beladona | you see the one with Robin Williams? |
| 15:45.18 | Tain | Yes! |
| 15:45.26 | Beladona | I had no idea he was a hardcore gamer |
| 15:45.35 | netcurse | a nearly perfect game is EvE online beladona :) |
| 15:45.42 | Thrae | Beladona: I cheat in single player games to avoid any repetitive gameplay, but consider multiplayer games (of any type) sacrisanct. |
| 15:45.50 | netcurse | to bad they don t want to lower skill training time for newcomers |
| 15:45.59 | Beladona | I am past the cheating discussion at this point 0.o |
| 15:46.17 | Thrae | No fair =/ |
| 15:46.25 | Tain | The only thing with that is defining what "cheating" is in a multiplayer game. :) There's different opinions. |
| 15:46.32 | Kirkburn|Food | Beladona, he's a sniper in Battlefield 2 :) |
| 15:46.44 | Beladona | I do think a good game reduces the overhead of replay when a player has already gotten through it once |
| 15:47.19 | Tain | I am absolutely against games that unlock new content or difficulty levels only after you've completed the entire game. |
| 15:47.35 | Beladona | no that I don't like |
| 15:47.37 | Thrae | Kirkburn|Food: No, I'm a lousey sniper. But I'm decent with Rifle Sniping at times. |
| 15:47.40 | Tain | Just because I didn't it once doesn't mean I want to do it again. |
| 15:47.43 | krka|work | which is why i prefer skill based games |
| 15:47.52 | Beladona | I meant making things easier for people playing through again |
| 15:47.56 | Beladona | maybe not in single player |
| 15:48.03 | Beladona | but in multiplayer definitely |
| 15:48.10 | krka|work | such as Warcraft 3, i can pick it up now and play at the level i deserve to be within a few couple of games |
| 15:48.19 | Thrae | In fact, I hate the way BF2 implemented sniping. Most people I talk to actually find rifle sniping easier. |
| 15:48.22 | Kirkburn|Food | Thrae, you realise I meant Robin Williams is a sniper? |
| 15:48.44 | Thrae | Kirkburn|Food: Ohh...well, I'm really Robin Williams. You found me out! |
| 15:48.47 | Beladona | Kirkburn, do you know his name? |
| 15:48.49 | Kirkburn|Food | hehe :) |
| 15:48.51 | Beladona | I knew he played |
| 15:48.55 | Kirkburn|Food | nope :( |
| 15:48.57 | krka|work | I'm robin williams! and so is my wife |
| 15:48.58 | Beladona | but wonder if I have knifed him |
| 15:49.04 | Beladona | I have knifed many a sniper |
| 15:49.22 | Thrae | Robin Williams has bipolar disorder. That in itself should tell you he plays video games ;) |
| 15:49.29 | Beladona | lol |
| 15:49.44 | Tain | I still love this story. |
| 15:49.45 | Tain | http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayson/1201283.html |
| 15:49.52 | Beladona | he mentioned he has an Xbox360 |
| 15:49.57 | Beladona | and plans on getting the PS3 as well |
| 15:49.59 | Beladona | the bastige |
| 15:50.09 | Tain | Professional atheletes bringing EverQuest into the games. ;) |
| 15:50.31 | Thrae | PS3...eh |
| 15:50.34 | Thrae | Long live the Wii! |
| 15:51.30 | Thrae | ...Crap I'm late for an appointment |
| 15:52.30 | Beladona | thats a funny article |
| 15:53.20 | Tain | It's great. |
| 15:54.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:56.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 16:01.04 | Kirkburn|Food | WinHEC speeches have just started ... http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winhec/default.mspx |
| 16:03.07 | Kirkburn|Food | Lol, there's only one person logged into the WoW forums atm |
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| 16:06.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge End (n=end@c-67-161-159-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
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| 16:18.38 | Kirkburn|Food | Lol, what? I'm watching Bill Gate's speech - one of the slides has a Processor Penetration graph - the scale goes up to 120% :-/ |
| 16:18.44 | grimman | I want 1.11 now. |
| 16:18.51 | grimman | What, watching? |
| 16:18.55 | grimman | I get audio, no more. |
| 16:19.17 | grimman | nm |
| 16:19.25 | grimman | Getting video now... stupid assed WMP. |
| 16:19.45 | grimman | William Gates... I R NOTTE EXCITED. |
| 16:23.08 | grimman | Apart from 1.11 I want a gaming laptop. (yes, Gates got me thinking about that) |
| 16:23.57 | wereHamster | the new PTR client once again breaks Wine :( |
| 16:24.16 | grimman | Ah yes... the loonix thingie. |
| 16:24.21 | grimman | ;) |
| 16:24.31 | grimman | But in what way? |
| 16:27.25 | zenzelezz | "processor penetration"? |
| 16:27.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
| 16:29.12 | Kirkburn|Food | zenzelezz, I think it was talking about the % of people using 32-bit/64-bit |
| 16:29.32 | Kirkburn|Food | Give me Vista, not bloody 'virtualisation' crap |
| 16:29.47 | zenzelezz | meh, sod Vista \o/ |
| 16:30.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce5.disney.com) |
| 16:31.59 | Kirkburn|Food | zomg, it's so boring |
| 16:32.18 | Kirkburn|Food | The proper beta 2 release is supposed to have unseen stuff in it |
| 16:32.30 | Tem | lol you actually send Slouken cookies |
| 16:32.34 | Tem | that's awesome |
| 16:32.45 | grimman | Boring? |
| 16:32.53 | Kirkburn | Yeah, I wondered about that Tem :P |
| 16:32.59 | grimman | I find this extremely fascinating. =) |
| 16:33.07 | Kirkburn | \o/ |
| 16:33.22 | grimman | LOL, omg... Gates just looked so much like Burns in Simpsons. |
| 16:33.26 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 16:33.32 | grimman | Eeeeeexcellent. |
| 16:34.12 | Kirkburn | Oh btw, they changed the name of Office 2007 again |
| 16:34.17 | Kirkburn | It's now ... |
| 16:34.25 | Kirkburn | "2007 Microsoft Office system" |
| 16:34.50 | zenzelezz | Office Ultra .NET Architect Suite for Windows |
| 16:34.54 | Kirkburn | Because that's easier to say .... |
| 16:35.30 | Tain | Featuring Clippy 2007 .NET Power Office Assistant |
| 16:36.01 | Kirkburn | This was the annoucement - it basically one long excuse: http://blogs.msdn.com/inside_office_online/archive/2006/05/05/590929.aspx |
| 16:36.16 | Kirkburn | "We know you'll hate it and no-one will use it, but we were told to do it anyway" |
| 16:36.20 | grimman | Hehe... ultra, hyper. <3 Microsoft. ;P |
| 16:37.13 | Kirkburn | Yeah, the next version of windows will be SuperPowerWindowsX |
| 16:37.26 | Tain | That's a much more sterlized blog entry than the one explaining the name change from Monad to Microsoft PowerShell |
| 16:37.52 | Kirkburn | The marketing dept. must *really* annoy the devs sometimes |
| 16:38.07 | Tain | Which was more like, "The marketing guys saw that you liked Monad so they decided to give it a "better" name." |
| 16:38.15 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 16:38.17 | End | monad sounds kinda funny for a name |
| 16:38.27 | Kirkburn | At least it's interesting |
| 16:38.30 | Tain | That was just it's internal name. |
| 16:38.37 | Tain | But PowerShell? |
| 16:38.52 | grimman | It adds power to the shell, nub. |
| 16:38.57 | grimman | Learn to read the meaning. |
| 16:39.00 | grimman | ;) |
| 16:39.07 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 16:39.22 | Tain | I refuse to type in Start - Run - powershell |
| 16:39.27 | Tain | I could do Start - Run - msh |
| 16:39.39 | grimman | That's probably what you're gonna do anyway. |
| 16:39.42 | Tain | (Actually Win-R for the run box, but still) |
| 16:39.54 | grimman | But it should, logically, have been mss, not msh. |
| 16:40.10 | grimman | If the ms-part still means Microsoft. |
| 16:40.12 | grimman | ;P |
| 16:40.20 | Tain | No, the M part was Microsft. |
| 16:40.29 | grimman | Then what was the H? |
| 16:40.40 | Kirkburn | sH? |
| 16:40.45 | grimman | Indeed. |
| 16:40.45 | Tain | It was a good idea on their part. Using the shell naming convention from unix systems. |
| 16:40.59 | Kirkburn | Yeah, er I meant Microsft SHell? |
| 16:41.00 | grimman | Aha, so shells are |
| 16:41.03 | grimman | 'sh'? |
| 16:41.14 | grimman | ok ok... didn't know there was a naming convention. |
| 16:41.17 | End | the original shell is sh |
| 16:41.24 | Tain | Generally yes. |
| 16:41.28 | End | (and the name of the posix shell) |
| 16:41.36 | Kirkburn | Might be getting to the interesting stuff now |
| 16:41.39 | End | then you have bash, ksh, csh, tcsh, etc etc |
| 16:41.40 | grimman | win+r -> cmd |
| 16:41.41 | Tain | Not a real naming convention by "law" but a lot of people have followed it. |
| 16:41.43 | grimman | Works for me. ;) |
| 16:41.53 | Tain | Of course it works. |
| 16:42.03 | Tain | The point to Monad was to actually provide a more powerful shell. |
| 16:42.04 | Kirkburn | I've never remembered any Win+[key] shortcuts |
| 16:42.13 | grimman | Though generally I use the command line in my file manager. |
| 16:42.15 | grimman | Gotta love that. |
| 16:42.23 | Tain | I use Win-R, Win-E (explorer) and Win-D (minimize all to desktop) all the time. |
| 16:42.31 | grimman | Kirkburn: My interface is filled with them. |
| 16:42.37 | Tain | Those are the only ones I use though. |
| 16:42.53 | grimman | Win+Up arrow = start winamp. Down arrow = stop winamp. |
| 16:42.58 | zenzelezz | simple... Win+E for explorer, Win+R for run, Win+F for the "find files", Win+Pause/Break for the "System" dialog |
| 16:43.05 | End | my keyboard doesn't even have a windows button :O |
| 16:43.11 | Kirkburn | lol @ End :) |
| 16:43.13 | grimman | End: *envy* ;) |
| 16:43.25 | End | hey, it's just an old sun keyboard |
| 16:43.29 | Tain | I got too used to the shortkeys in Windows now for Run and Explorer |
| 16:43.31 | grimman | It's really just another accelerator key with an unfortunate name. |
| 16:43.39 | Kirkburn | At least it means you don't accidently minimise games |
| 16:43.44 | End | yeah that's true |
| 16:43.53 | wereHamster | but in the end.. isn't the most important key combination ctrl+alt+delete ? |
| 16:43.55 | Tain | Feh I haven't done that since like the first couple of months I had a keyboard with that key. |
| 16:44.03 | Kirkburn | wereHamster, just ever so slightly :P |
| 16:44.11 | Tain | Nah wereHamster, ctrl-shift-esc |
| 16:44.13 | grimman | Kirkburn: That's one of the benefits of using geOShell. No windows menu. ^^ |
| 16:44.32 | Kirkburn | Heh |
| 16:44.44 | Kirkburn | It's quite odd seeing the General Forums totally dead |
| 16:44.55 | Kirkburn | Absolutely no-one is logged in |
| 16:45.05 | End | login server must be down then ;p |
| 16:45.08 | Tain | Happens every Tuesday. |
| 16:45.17 | Kirkburn | It's still odd |
| 16:45.51 | Tain | I wouldn't notice, haven't looked at any forum but the UI forum in months and months. |
| 16:45.51 | Kirkburn | I hope the new authentication system works well |
| 16:45.56 | Tain | Aww such youthful idealism and hope. :) |
| 16:45.58 | Kirkburn | Okay then ... |
| 16:46.05 | Kirkburn | "It's quite odd seeing the UI Forums totally dead" |
| 16:46.11 | Kirkburn | "Absolutely no-one is logged in" |
| 16:46.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:46.13 | wereHamster | Tain, what does ctrl-shift-esc do? |
| 16:46.22 | Tain | I don't ever look at who else is logged in, I'm the only one who matters. ;) |
| 16:46.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:46.38 | Tain | wereHamster: Task Manager |
| 16:46.45 | Tain | Or in my case, Sysinternals Process Explorer |
| 16:46.54 | End | Process Explorer is neat-o |
| 16:46.59 | grimman | Alt+Esc == best ever. |
| 16:47.19 | Tain | I loves me some SysInternals software. |
| 16:47.23 | End | me too |
| 16:47.31 | grimman | Name one app. |
| 16:47.38 | End | we just did |
| 16:47.45 | grimman | Ah. |
| 16:47.50 | End | Sysinternals Process Explorer |
| 16:47.50 | Kirkburn | Ctrl Alt Del also brings up Task Manager |
| 16:47.54 | grimman | Don't assume I read every line. ;D |
| 16:48.00 | Tain | Only on some versions of Windows, Kirkburn |
| 16:48.07 | Kirkburn | ... the good ones :) |
| 16:48.14 | grimman | ICQ+WoW+WinHEC+IRC = some stuff gets overlooked. |
| 16:48.19 | Tain | Windows XP Professional in a domain environment isn't one of the good ones? |
| 16:48.32 | Kirkburn | Exactly :P |
| 16:49.28 | grimman | Er... CTRL+Alt+Del brings up the "Security" screen on "good ones". ;) |
| 16:49.35 | Kirkburn | Lol I liked how the oil guy said the oil rig was 'spewing out' lots of data |
| 16:49.47 | grimman | hehe |
| 16:49.58 | grimman | He sounds Danish. |
| 16:50.03 | grimman | And Australian. |
| 16:50.15 | Kirkburn | Talk to the audience, you noob! |
| 16:50.52 | Kirkburn | (he keeps talking only to Bill, silly man :P) |
| 16:52.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tha-Doctor (n=wow@tech-arena.demon.nl) |
| 16:52.09 | Tha-Doctor | . |
| 16:52.26 | Tha-Doctor | heey all |
| 16:52.47 | Kirkburn | Hullo |
| 16:52.51 | Tha-Doctor | i did read on your site that there might be someone that could help me with Interface addons ... or addons in general. |
| 16:53.02 | Kirkburn | You came to the right place :) |
| 16:53.09 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 16:53.09 | Tha-Doctor | k |
| 16:54.53 | Kirkburn | Fiiinally, they're talking about Windows |
| 16:54.59 | Tha-Doctor | k i am server devoleper and having no probs with tcl or scp or dbc... but completely new to Interface addons i wanted to make an addon with 8 buttons and a select player option so i can reset talents of them ... since we upgraded to 1.9 and palladin is having a great update since 1.8x to 1.9x with talents its the best to reset them ... |
| 16:55.46 | Tha-Doctor | so my question is, how can i make a window that i can call up with an command with a view buttons on it that i can put commands under like .option1 .option2 and .option3_line1 .option3_line2 |
| 16:55.51 | Tha-Doctor | etc. etc. |
| 16:55.57 | Tha-Doctor | could u help me with that Kirkburn |
| 16:56.05 | Tha-Doctor | or would u know where i can find manuals about that ? |
| 16:56.20 | Kirkburn | I can't, but I'm sure someone else can here *cough cough* |
| 16:56.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 16:56.32 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 16:56.42 | Tha-Doctor | well its ok |
| 16:56.49 | Tha-Doctor | maybe someone in here knows how to do it :) |
| 16:57.18 | Kaso | your idea confuses me alot :< |
| 16:57.21 | Kirkburn | This section of the wowwiki should help http://www.wowwiki.com/Interface_Customization |
| 16:57.37 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 16:57.50 | Tha-Doctor | k just want to make window with button and multiple command under button |
| 16:57.52 | Crispix | Aghgghg |
| 16:57.54 | Tha-Doctor | thats an easyer explenation |
| 16:58.02 | Crispix | Servers amd and the main site are down :( |
| 16:58.04 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 16:58.16 | Kaso | I'll give you my advice as a quite new UI writer, its about 100x easier to make a console based addon in wow that it is to make a GUI |
| 16:58.34 | Crispix | Wheres the betting pool that 1.11 will go live today? |
| 16:58.58 | Tem | not a chance |
| 16:59.00 | Cairenn | PRT just went up, not going live today |
| 16:59.01 | Kirkburn | On the moon |
| 16:59.10 | Crispix | Tem -- why not? |
| 16:59.16 | Kirkburn | Living with martians |
| 16:59.24 | Crispix | Then why is everything down today? :( |
| 16:59.28 | Tem | um |
| 16:59.30 | Tha-Doctor | kirkburn where i can get the UI Writer ? |
| 16:59.32 | Tem | maintenance? |
| 16:59.33 | Crispix | I have work in 4 hours... and I wanna play :(( |
| 16:59.39 | Tem | you know like every other tuesday |
| 17:00.11 | Crispix | The hell... Curse Gaming is even down? |
| 17:00.19 | Tha-Doctor | curse gaming is online |
| 17:00.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Abenadi[FoF] (n=mtgother@ip-66-218-236-93.cableaz.com) |
| 17:00.24 | Tha-Doctor | its ur line then |
| 17:00.26 | Crispix | no.. no its not |
| 17:00.29 | Crispix | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/ |
| 17:00.32 | Crispix | Down |
| 17:00.45 | Tha-Doctor | hmmm |
| 17:00.46 | Tha-Doctor | yup |
| 17:00.47 | Tha-Doctor | down |
| 17:00.50 | Crispix | Toldja |
| 17:00.57 | Tha-Doctor | try our servers if u like |
| 17:01.02 | Kirkburn | Most of the people on this channel are addon authors ... it gets a bit busier in a few hours |
| 17:01.05 | Cairenn | we're up and running absolutely fine, per usual |
| 17:01.07 | Tha-Doctor | it has a decent latency under 500 with 70 people online and theres only a view people online at this moment |
| 17:01.19 | zenzelezz | curse loads for me |
| 17:01.34 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: your servers? |
| 17:01.43 | Tha-Doctor | fileserving now < |
| 17:01.52 | Kirkburn | CG loads for me too :) |
| 17:01.54 | Tha-Doctor | if u want the link query me i am not spamming in main channels |
| 17:02.08 | Abenadi[FoF] | I'm a bit new to modding - can anyone help me add a cooldown animation to a macro which calls a function I define? |
| 17:02.30 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: because you don't want to give it to multiple people, or because you are afraid the channel admins will be upset? |
| 17:02.53 | Tha-Doctor | well i might get people upset with a spam |
| 17:02.54 | Tha-Doctor | thats why |
| 17:03.09 | Cairenn | naw, give us the link, it's all good |
| 17:03.12 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:03.13 | Tha-Doctor | ok |
| 17:03.13 | Kirkburn | Mmm, spam =) |
| 17:03.18 | Cairenn | a single line isn't spam |
| 17:03.18 | zenzelezz | Abenadi[FoF]: what cooldown? Does it share the cooldown with any spell you have? |
| 17:03.22 | Tha-Doctor | www.fs-now.org |
| 17:03.42 | Tha-Doctor | cooldown > is an spell or item cooldown for use ... u can write that in the spell call |
| 17:03.52 | Abenadi[FoF] | the function *sometimes* casts fear ward |
| 17:04.03 | zenzelezz | and you want the cooldown animation if it does, not otherwise? |
| 17:04.08 | Abenadi[FoF] | yes |
| 17:04.13 | Tha-Doctor | hmmm |
| 17:04.17 | zenzelezz | I have a Taunt macro like that, basically this: |
| 17:04.21 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: HOT! Site looks fabulous! |
| 17:04.24 | Tha-Doctor | ty |
| 17:04.40 | Tha-Doctor | cairenn we try to keep devolepment up as good as we can |
| 17:04.41 | zenzelezz | /script --CastSpellByName("Taunt"); |
| 17:04.45 | Tha-Doctor | also debug as many things on services |
| 17:04.50 | zenzelezz | /script Zenzio_ConditionalTaunt(); |
| 17:04.58 | Crispix | Could someone kindly tell me where I need to head in stormwind to respec my skills (Improved Judgement=Friggin LAME..) |
| 17:05.15 | zenzelezz | if the function tells WoW to use Taunt, the macro receives the cooldown "mask"; if the function doesn't, then the macro doesn't |
| 17:05.19 | Crispix | (Talents.. skills.. same diff.. :|) |
| 17:05.31 | [MoonWolf] | ask a gaurd about a paladin trainer |
| 17:05.32 | Abenadi[FoF] | huh |
| 17:05.36 | Cairenn | so, just to check, though ... this is a private server? as in an emo server? |
| 17:05.39 | Crispix | moon-thankee :) |
| 17:05.45 | Tha-Doctor | Cairenn if u use UWC try there forums i am always releasing scripts there... TCL , SCP and DBC editings |
| 17:06.08 | Abenadi[FoF] | so basically if I just add /script --CastSpellByName("Fear Ward") before my function call (/fward) that should work? |
| 17:06.15 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 17:06.28 | zenzelezz | at least it does for my Taunt function... WoW seems smart like that |
| 17:06.33 | zenzelezz | *macro |
| 17:06.34 | Tha-Doctor | language npc scripts also fixxes for aquatic, tree and other shapeshift... |
| 17:06.40 | Tha-Doctor | and more |
| 17:06.45 | Kirkburn | Yes, er, we're not into that here |
| 17:07.00 | Abenadi[FoF] | there's a /script before your custom taunt function? |
| 17:07.03 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: emu server, right? |
| 17:07.08 | Abenadi[FoF] | when I register mine i just put the /function_name |
| 17:07.11 | Tha-Doctor | yes... cairenn |
| 17:07.29 | zenzelezz | Abenadi[FoF]: I don't register a slash-command for the function, but if you do that should work just as well |
| 17:07.51 | zenzelezz | the important part is the commented-out CastSpellByName |
| 17:07.57 | Tha-Doctor | i am server devoleper but complete new to interface intergration on clients itself thats why I came here to learn that aswell so i can bring support on all sections for users. |
| 17:07.58 | Abenadi[FoF] | OK... I'm just sort of asking does that mean if you don't register the slash-command it searches your mods for that function? |
| 17:08.16 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: Then I'm very sorry, but I will have to ask you to leave. Emu servers are against Blizzard's rules and we won't have anything to do with them. I know that sounds harsh, but there it is. |
| 17:08.48 | Tha-Doctor | well i am here not to give support on servers i am here to learn about interface intergration if that is not alowed i will leave |
| 17:08.56 | zenzelezz | Abenadi[FoF]: yes |
| 17:08.57 | Tha-Doctor | and if u want me to not talk about emu related items i will not |
| 17:09.04 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:09.28 | Cairenn | You want to learn about interface stuff for use on your emu servers, right? That I can't allow |
| 17:09.31 | Abenadi[FoF] | thanks zenz I'll try out the commented-out addition; appreciate your help |
| 17:09.45 | Tha-Doctor | no cairenn i want to learn to make an addon for the related client for in general |
| 17:09.56 | Cairenn | Okay |
| 17:10.08 | Tha-Doctor | not for one services... but in general |
| 17:10.19 | Tha-Doctor | because i want to release it on curse gaming aswell |
| 17:10.20 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:10.20 | Cairenn | You can stay, for now, but don't push the line |
| 17:10.32 | Tha-Doctor | ty |
| 17:10.50 | Crispix | Wow... this PallyHelper plugin looks pretty damn spiffeh |
| 17:10.54 | Cairenn | I'm not trying to be a complete bitch here, just we have to walk the line, since we're part of the FSP |
| 17:11.09 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/ |
| 17:11.16 | Crispix | Sorry.. too much alcy Cairenn.. |
| 17:11.17 | Tha-Doctor | i understand cairenn... :) |
| 17:11.19 | Tha-Doctor | Cairenn: could u help me with the question i had ? |
| 17:11.39 | Tha-Doctor | how can i create an basic addon with a button on it that can like make me say a word ? |
| 17:11.50 | Tha-Doctor | like it selects an selected person and calles on an Emot |
| 17:12.01 | Kirkburn | Dammit, how did I just change my keyboard layout :/ |
| 17:12.03 | Cairenn | heh, likely not, I'm not an author, I still can't wrap my head around the language |
| 17:12.17 | Tha-Doctor | i see :) |
| 17:12.34 | Cairenn | have you looked at WoW UI Designer? http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info4222-WoW_UI_Designer.html |
| 17:12.42 | Crispix | Kirkburn--Hey buddy.. Just wanted you to know I'm back in the game (yeah.. again), and I still can't play the game without you clear type addon/plugin |
| 17:12.54 | Kirkburn | :D |
| 17:13.18 | Tha-Doctor | i never knew there was an interface ui designer |
| 17:13.25 | Cairenn | now you do |
| 17:13.28 | Tha-Doctor | that would make things a lott easyer |
| 17:13.29 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:13.33 | Cairenn | stop looking only at Curse |
| 17:13.48 | Tha-Doctor | well i came to your site by luck |
| 17:14.05 | Tha-Doctor | and first thing i found was that it containd an irc channel |
| 17:14.09 | Cairenn | also, you can always get the latest UI files here: http://wdn.wowinterface.com/ |
| 17:14.09 | Tha-Doctor | so downloaded mirc |
| 17:14.11 | Tha-Doctor | and came here |
| 17:14.15 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 17:14.39 | Tha-Doctor | will look in to that |
| 17:14.48 | Crispix | Tha-Doctor Luck won't save you if Cairenn gets mad at you, she may be a night elf, but she's got the anger temperment of a pregnant orc lady when she gets mad.. ( Cairenn You know we love you for it though.. ) just a humble warning... |
| 17:15.01 | Cairenn | well, for general authoring discussion, you are certainly more than welcome |
| 17:15.10 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:15.11 | Cairenn | Crispix: >< |
| 17:15.21 | Tha-Doctor | well she seems nice enough crispix |
| 17:15.25 | Tha-Doctor | since she alowed me to stay in |
| 17:15.26 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:15.38 | Tha-Doctor | and orc chicks rock |
| 17:15.57 | Cairenn | Tha-Doctor: and remember to check in the Dev Utilities section of downloads for more stuff to help you: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat35.html |
| 17:16.22 | Tha-Doctor | added to favo's |
| 17:16.23 | Tha-Doctor | wo0t |
| 17:16.33 | Crispix | Tha-Doctor, oh Cairenn roxors.. I don't do anything with the UI other than customize it on my own, no coding whatsoever, and she lets me hide out in here and get friends like Kirkburn, dispite my being as dumb as an orc when it comes to asking questions about the UI.. (gee.. you can tell I'm an alliance pally.. can'tcha. :)) |
| 17:17.09 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 17:17.38 | Tha-Doctor | orc : green meen fighting machine |
| 17:18.01 | Tha-Doctor | just no brains |
| 17:18.19 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 17:18.25 | Tha-Doctor | (A) sorry |
| 17:18.41 | Tha-Doctor | i prever to play with orc |
| 17:18.43 | Tha-Doctor | or undead |
| 17:19.20 | Kirkburn | I wonder what the preferences are her - if there are more horde players or alliance players? |
| 17:19.37 | Kirkburn | But I don't suppose you can do votes on IRC :( |
| 17:19.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@69.45.67.93) |
| 17:20.19 | Kirkburn | Anyways, the wowwiki is excellent for information on the UI |
| 17:20.37 | Tha-Doctor | to complicated for starters that are not native on english |
| 17:21.14 | Crispix | omg. |
| 17:21.17 | Cairenn | I presume you've already got the Blizz tool, right? |
| 17:21.18 | Crispix | Kirkburn-- http://www.blizzard.com/wow/images/screens/insider/020/comics/ss49.jpg |
| 17:21.20 | Kirkburn | It's not very easy to talk about in english anyway |
| 17:21.50 | Kirkburn | (Vista beta 2 has just been released. Oooh. Not that I can use it on my laptop) |
| 17:22.13 | Tha-Doctor | yes cairenn |
| 17:22.16 | Tha-Doctor | i got all tools |
| 17:22.20 | Kaso | The way vista is turning out i feel xp may be the last version of windows i use |
| 17:22.25 | Cairenn | okay |
| 17:22.26 | zenzelezz | same |
| 17:22.38 | Tha-Doctor_afk | brb |
| 17:22.41 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 17:22.50 | Tha-Doctor_afk | sorry had here nick in CTRL+V |
| 17:22.56 | Cairenn | no worries |
| 17:23.06 | Tha-Doctor_afk | bbs |
| 17:23.11 | Tha-Doctor_afk | dinner time here |
| 17:23.19 | Crispix | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/screenshots/images/screenoftheday/ss0617.jpg 'Damn it.. my contact fell out.' |
| 17:23.56 | Kirkburn | lol Crispix |
| 17:24.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-166.handshake.de) |
| 17:25.56 | Kirkburn | Er anyone else watching the WinHEC feed? Has it ended? |
| 17:26.21 | Crispix | holy heck |
| 17:26.33 | Crispix | o_O The pally tier 3 set rocks |
| 17:27.05 | AnduinLothar | ya, if you like out healing priests |
| 17:27.14 | Abenadi[FoF] | or if you like umm... voltron |
| 17:27.32 | Kirkburn | *sigh* poor warlocks |
| 17:27.34 | Thrae | Abendi: No no, not Voltron. |
| 17:28.09 | Thrae | We all know Bear Tanking Druid + Cat DPS Druid + Moonkin Mage Druid + Healing Resto Druid = Voltron! |
| 17:28.50 | Thrae | Wait, Bear Tanking Druid + Cat DPS Druid + Moonkin Mage Druid + Healing Resto Druid + Omni-capable Druid = Voltron. There we go. |
| 17:28.52 | kremonte | moonkin mage? |
| 17:28.53 | Crispix | Thrae has a good point.... |
| 17:28.58 | kremonte | rofloctopus |
| 17:29.35 | Thrae | Man, now that I think about it, that's like all the power rangers personalities too. |
| 17:29.48 | Thrae | And it's the personalities from Lord of the Rings! |
| 17:29.57 | Crispix | MY PRECCCCIOUSSSSSS!! |
| 17:30.24 | Crispix | Kay.. I promise never to do that again.. sorry |
| 17:30.38 | Thrae | In fact, it's the personalities from Every RPG I Have Ever Played. Warrior + Rogue + Mage + Priest + Hero (all the others combined) |
| 17:31.07 | Abenadi[FoF] | Owww my eyes - I just looked at the tier3 pally on a female dwarf. The midriff thing is not happening there |
| 17:31.29 | Thrae | What, you don't like beards on your fantasy ladies? |
| 17:32.03 | Kaso | Warlock is best of all for looks in tier 3 in my opinion. |
| 17:32.12 | AnduinLothar | lolz |
| 17:32.20 | Abenadi[FoF] | lol sandpeople |
| 17:32.35 | Thrae | Warlocks DID sell their soul to demons -- at least they should get some nice threads out of the deal! |
| 17:32.37 | AnduinLothar | i like warrior best imo |
| 17:33.14 | Kirkburn | What type of damage does immolate/fire spells cause? Magic or fire or what? |
| 17:33.19 | Abenadi[FoF] | Druid set looks hot on NE female. Hunter set for overall coolness |
| 17:33.29 | Abenadi[FoF] | fire spells cause fire damage |
| 17:33.38 | Thrae | Abenadi[FoF]: What DOESN'T look hot on a NE Female? |
| 17:33.45 | Kirkburn | Ta, they'd be the red-ringed debuffs then |
| 17:34.15 | Thrae | Well, maybe some low-end Cloth. The high-end cloth is all g-strings. |
| 17:34.16 | Abenadi[FoF] | Thrae: rogue tier3? |
| 17:34.18 | Elkano | nothing looks good on a NE female... |
| 17:34.49 | krka | agreed, a NE female looks best in nothing |
| 17:34.58 | zenzelezz | damnit krka, you beat me to it |
| 17:35.02 | Elkano | :) |
| 17:35.16 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 17:35.30 | Kirkburn | There's no 'nothing' option :/ |
| 17:35.33 | Abenadi[FoF] | my main is a dwarf male priest therefore I am cursed to wear sets designed for tall women |
| 17:35.42 | Thrae | Heh, I like to do stealth runs on my Druid. I try to get at least one other Druid, and sometimes she's female, and you know stealth runs are best done naked... |
| 17:35.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:35.55 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 17:36.08 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah thrae, naked cats : P |
| 17:36.10 | Iriel | Morning all |
| 17:36.18 | Iriel | Arrrrrrgh, furries! |
| 17:36.29 | Abenadi[FoF] | laff bad time to join |
| 17:36.29 | Elkano | \o\ Iriel /o/ |
| 17:36.36 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 17:37.07 | Thrae | Abenadi[FoF]: Funny thing the other day, I did 2/3 parts of Scarlet Monastary with two other Druids and two Rogues for a stealthrun, and it was only at Cathradral did I realize BOTH Druids were female. |
| 17:37.33 | Thrae | One of them stayed in Cat 99% of the time ;) |
| 17:37.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gello (n=chatzill@pool-70-105-252-195.port.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:37.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 17:37.53 | kremonte | i think at least 90% of druids on the alliance are female |
| 17:37.53 | Kirkburn | I've updated the (long!) undocumented changes list btw - www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.11_%28Release_Notes%29#Undocumented_Changes |
| 17:37.56 | Thrae | s/Cathradral/Cathdredal/. |
| 17:38.00 | kremonte | and the opposite on horde |
| 17:38.46 | Gello | general question: what % of action buttons do people bind keys to (that don't already have a binding) |
| 17:38.47 | Thrae | kremonte: Tauren Female are ugly, NE Female are beyond cute, and only a complex person picks a Druid to begin with since they're such a mixed up class. |
| 17:38.51 | Abenadi[FoF] | in my guild every druid is a female druid and female IRL. All the other classes are dominated by male IRL |
| 17:39.06 | Elkano | global LFG? omg :/ |
| 17:39.08 | kremonte | Abenadi[FoF]: o_O |
| 17:39.09 | Legorol^ | Tauren Female are cute, NE females are overrated |
| 17:39.14 | kremonte | Thrae: not really |
| 17:39.21 | Thrae | Legorol^ <-- furry alert! |
| 17:39.25 | Iriel | Gello: I bind none of those that aren't already bound |
| 17:39.26 | kremonte | ..lol |
| 17:39.33 | kremonte | i wouldn't exactly say "cute" |
| 17:39.34 | Legorol^ | talking of LFG channel |
| 17:39.41 | Legorol^ | has anyone found a way to join city channels outside city? |
| 17:39.42 | kremonte | but more or less appealing to older women? |
| 17:39.46 | Legorol^ | i have tried without success |
| 17:40.00 | Kirov | Legorol - no, it's not possible in 1.10 |
| 17:40.07 | Legorol^ | in 1.11 |
| 17:40.09 | Legorol^ | test server |
| 17:40.18 | Kirov | LFG channel is world wide |
| 17:40.21 | Legorol^ | sorry should've made that clear |
| 17:40.26 | Thrae | Excuse me, I must go have my head shrunk. |
| 17:40.36 | Iriel | Thrae : I'd challenge the 'complex person' assertion, some people pick druid because it gives you a bit of everything so you don thave to play just one way, just for the variety. |
| 17:40.36 | Legorol^ | so that's their global LFG solution? :) |
| 17:40.36 | Kirov | there's one for horde, one for alliance, not one for each city |
| 17:40.38 | Gello | same. i've got a "bar" that can have many "ffa" slots for consumables or stuff like twilight texts, and unsure if i should make an arbitrary number of bindings or just a key binding pool of like 10 keys |
| 17:40.51 | zenzelezz | I assume he meant to ask if he could join the City LFG while outside cities |
| 17:40.56 | Kirov | Legorol - aparently |
| 17:41.02 | kremonte | i started a druid because i wanted to be able to MOONFIRE!!! |
| 17:41.08 | kremonte | and i did, so my druid was a success |
| 17:41.13 | Legorol^ | ok, but global LFG aside |
| 17:41.17 | Iriel | Well, you can't do arbitrary bindings, so you'd have to go with a pool |
| 17:41.19 | Legorol^ | didn't they promise joining of city channels? |
| 17:41.20 | Thrae | Iriel: Wouldn't you call someone a complex person who wants to try to make everything work instead of being single-minded, only picking one thing and sticking to it? |
| 17:41.26 | Kirov | Legorol - no |
| 17:41.32 | Iriel | I'd say code it so you can add more bindings later, and start out with say, 10 |
| 17:41.34 | Legorol^ | hmm, i vaguely recall something in that direction |
| 17:41.39 | Gello | well arbitrary being "worn gear slots" then "the first 8 ffa buttons" |
| 17:41.39 | Iriel | Thrae : No, i'd call them non-committal 8-) |
| 17:41.42 | Legorol^ | that we'd again be able to join city channels |
| 17:41.48 | Abenadi[FoF] | I couldn't make a druid because I have an innate need to have a class that is 'the best' at something |
| 17:41.52 | krka | omg global LFG in 1.11? |
| 17:41.52 | Abenadi[FoF] | so I chose a priest |
| 17:41.54 | krka | that's awesome |
| 17:41.56 | Kirov | Legorol - They promised to look at reneabling the functionality |
| 17:42.00 | Abenadi[FoF] | because obviously they are the best DPS |
| 17:42.01 | Thrae | Iriel: Then you'd think MEN would be more Druids then women ;) |
| 17:42.01 | Legorol^ | so, will the server/client cope with a channel that has all players in it? |
| 17:42.06 | Tha-Doctor | back |
| 17:42.07 | Tha-Doctor | :) |
| 17:42.08 | Kirov | Making a global LFG group does that |
| 17:42.13 | Kirov | er, channel |
| 17:42.14 | Legorol^ | well no |
| 17:42.18 | Iriel | Thrae : But Abenadi[FoF]'s comment about being 'best at' tends to override that 8-) |
| 17:42.22 | Legorol^ | global LFG and joining city channel is *not* the same |
| 17:42.26 | kremonte | most druids in my guild... well, once-guild were male with female NE toons |
| 17:42.31 | krka | presumably, not all players will be in it the same time |
| 17:42.33 | Legorol^ | i want to be in cities general and trade |
| 17:42.42 | Iriel | Legorol: Some of us leave LFG, general, and trade ASAP |
| 17:42.47 | Legorol^ | hehe, i know |
| 17:42.50 | Thrae | Of course, Druids are also a primary healer, and most men are adverse to healing because it's an empathic, selfless role. |
| 17:42.59 | Gello | you can't join city channels (like trade) on test. LookingForGroup is now one big channel for entire faction |
| 17:43.06 | Legorol^ | i am just trying to point out that a global LFG channel is not equivalent to being able to join city channels |
| 17:43.09 | kremonte | Thrae: eh, not so much in wow |
| 17:43.12 | Thrae | Women are already born to be nurturing, men are born to be hunters. |
| 17:43.20 | Legorol^ | Gello: that was my experience too |
| 17:43.22 | Thrae | kremonte: At face value, though. |
| 17:43.24 | kremonte | ok now you're just going on with stereotyping |
| 17:43.24 | Legorol^ | that's why i'm asking |
| 17:43.29 | kremonte | which i don't agree with |
| 17:43.33 | Thrae | kremonte: No, instinct! |
| 17:43.35 | Elkano | with LFG becoming global a lot of people will disable it :/ |
| 17:43.39 | kremonte | no, stereotyping. |
| 17:43.42 | Tain | Already disable it! |
| 17:43.47 | AnduinLothar | depends on what server you're on. my main's on one of the oldest servers, there isn't quite as much noob spam as most newer servers |
| 17:43.48 | Kirov | Legorol - this is true, but they never specifically said they'd bring that back. |
| 17:43.49 | Legorol^ | worse still, wouldn't a global LFG totally overload client? |
| 17:44.02 | Legorol^ | Kirov: admittedly they never fully promised, but they hinted at it |
| 17:44.06 | Legorol^ | i can't whip the post up |
| 17:44.22 | Thrae | Well, I give my incredibly valid and thoughtful discussion on this subject right now, because I have to go convince a psychiatrist that I'm not crazy. |
| 17:44.26 | Kirov | Legorol - I remember it, and this is their solution I think |
| 17:44.30 | Thrae | s/I give/I can't give/. |
| 17:44.32 | Kirov | It's a bad one, but it's easier |
| 17:44.35 | Gello | global LFG won't be as bad on live servers. people will leave it when they're not LFG |
| 17:44.45 | Legorol^ | true |
| 17:44.53 | AnduinLothar | well I think the key issues they haven't considered is joining a different client locale channel in eu |
| 17:44.56 | Tain | That's easy to do Thrae, psychatrists are so arrogant and egotistical, just tell them what they want to hear. |
| 17:45.00 | Legorol^ | i still think that being able to join city channels would've been a lot easier and an all-round general solution |
| 17:45.07 | Legorol^ | in that case, you'd have a global LFG if people wanted |
| 17:45.11 | Legorol^ | as well as global General and global Trade |
| 17:45.41 | Legorol^ | AnduinLothar: that's already handled |
| 17:45.49 | AnduinLothar | how? |
| 17:45.51 | kremonte | * New repeatable quests have been added to the goblin cities to help re-establish reputation with the Steamwheedle Cartel. These NPCs are representitives of the Steamwheedle Cartel so those with negative reputation can intereact with them. |
| 17:45.51 | Legorol^ | the general/trade etc. channels are now not locale dependent |
| 17:45.52 | kremonte | woot |
| 17:45.59 | Legorol^ | but are presented to the user in locale-specific way |
| 17:46.02 | AnduinLothar | ah, ok. i didn't know that |
| 17:46.10 | Legorol^ | i can't remember if that's already in 1.10 or will be in 1.11 |
| 17:46.18 | Iriel | I'm curious to know where the LFG UI frame went, they added API calls to support it a while back |
| 17:46.39 | Legorol^ | there is now only one General channel, which is presented as General the english client, and Allgemeines or whatever to German client |
| 17:46.52 | AnduinLothar | interesting |
| 17:46.59 | Kirov | Legorol - Blizzard tends to work like this. "The hardcore gamers are complaining about (issue A), they keep talking about it on the forums. Option 1) ignore, option 2) agree something needs to be done, dumb down the original concept to the point that the non-hardcore people can use it, and it annoys everyone as much as possible. |
| 17:47.06 | AnduinLothar | spose that's why ChannelManager still works :) |
| 17:47.27 | AnduinLothar | eeks, late |
| 17:47.39 | Legorol^ | lol Kirov |
| 17:48.35 | Legorol^ | you know, i think a global LFG is a bad idea |
| 17:48.44 | Legorol^ | i mean |
| 17:48.49 | Legorol^ | not the fact that there is a global LFG channel |
| 17:48.55 | Legorol^ | but the fact that they removed local LFG |
| 17:48.59 | Kirkburn | Btw, if anyone has any more undocumented changes - tell me, I'll add them |
| 17:49.24 | Elkano | Legorol, exactly what I thought... |
| 17:49.32 | Legorol^ | so now LFG calls for that level 10 quest are intermixed with calls for UBRS, MC etc. |
| 17:49.42 | Legorol^ | it's a hell of a mixup |
| 17:50.01 | Elkano | you don't wan't to to know that so is looking for so else to do quest x at the world's ass when you are looking for some mor for UBRS |
| 17:50.11 | Legorol^ | yup |
| 17:50.20 | Legorol^ | i think we have to post on the forums in a hurry |
| 17:50.28 | Legorol^ | maybe there is still time for them to put in local *and* global LFG |
| 17:50.28 | Iriel | But given that people did LFG in one of THREE cities, how was it any different before? |
| 17:50.32 | Kirov | UberCool - LF1M UBRS NEED MAGE |
| 17:50.32 | Kirov | Lvl7Mage - Ooo, can I go!? |
| 17:50.40 | Legorol^ | Iriel: there is a lot of LFG-ing going on locally |
| 17:50.52 | Legorol^ | for quests, bosses etc. |
| 17:50.55 | Kirkburn | Maybe it'll mean the quality of LFGs will have to improve |
| 17:51.05 | Legorol^ | well we have LocalDefense and WorldDefense |
| 17:51.14 | Legorol^ | can't be that hard for them to have LocalLFG and WorldLFG |
| 17:51.26 | Legorol^ | admittedly that way the number of channels just keeps rising |
| 17:51.29 | Iriel | WorldDefense has posting restrictions though |
| 17:51.34 | Tain | Frankly the lfg channel is a bad implementation in the first place. |
| 17:51.45 | Crispix | *Sigh* realms are still down |
| 17:51.45 | Legorol^ | Iriel: yah, but conceptionally you get my point |
| 17:51.45 | Tain | It needs to be trashed entirely and redone. |
| 17:51.57 | Tain | Until then anyone who uses it gets what they deserve. |
| 17:52.11 | Legorol^ | Tain: i disagree, a simple chat channel where people can look for others for whatever purpose is good |
| 17:52.23 | Legorol^ | i would say they need a more comprehensive LFG system on top of a simple channel |
| 17:52.34 | Iriel | Well, you have general, so there's your simple channel 8-) |
| 17:52.38 | Legorol^ | e.g. currently i use both the LFG channel for local activity as well as CTA |
| 17:52.42 | Tain | There's no way to make a single channel that has a signal to noise ratio that can provide anything remotely useful. |
| 17:52.53 | Legorol^ | Iriel: LFG was separated from General on purpose |
| 17:53.06 | Iriel | I know that, but now we have 2 channels that suck instead of one |
| 17:53.08 | Elkano | btw: I'm looking for two addons, maybe someone can proide me the names: http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1405/wowscrnshot0520060145013la.jpg |
| 17:53.19 | Iriel | I have a VERY low opinion of global channels because there are too many idiots around |
| 17:53.25 | Legorol^ | sure |
| 17:53.32 | Legorol^ | i agree with you on that one |
| 17:53.35 | Legorol^ | i prefer local channels, |
| 17:53.41 | Elkano | the progressbars for the buffs/debuffs on the player and the arrow with helmet to it's right |
| 17:53.41 | Legorol^ | with a global LFG solution that is not chat based |
| 17:54.36 | Tain | Wow that's a bad Ragnaros attempt. Poor raid. :( |
| 17:54.49 | Elkano | pic is from us forums ^^ |
| 17:54.49 | Legorol^ | On a totally random note: i don't suppose there is any EU resident here who has experience at crossing the English Channel by car? |
| 17:54.53 | krka | would be nice with local LFG + dungeon LFG |
| 17:54.58 | Legorol^ | (and no, i don't mean putting the car on the water and paddling) |
| 17:55.47 | Elkano | Legorol, I have been from Calais to Dover and back once... but that was years ago on a class trip :/ |
| 17:55.52 | Kaso | Legorol^ depend.. |
| 17:56.04 | Iriel | Legorol: Decades ago, yes |
| 17:56.20 | Elkano | Iriel, sth like CTA would be nice for LFG |
| 17:56.25 | Iriel | But i'm not an EU resident anymore, just an EU citizen |
| 17:56.38 | Iriel | Elkano: Blizzard built out a whole bunch of LFG API's but they never went anywhere 8-( |
| 17:57.04 | Elkano | maybe they should start it over again :/ |
| 17:57.16 | Iriel | They just need to put a UI on top of it |
| 17:57.52 | Elkano | the meeting stones have been a bad idea since players want control over who they invite, een if they do it on a random basis |
| 17:58.18 | Iriel | These API's aren't meeting stone based |
| 17:58.21 | Tem | Iriel: do you think the functions do anything yet? |
| 17:58.38 | Elkano | are these API functions life? |
| 17:58.45 | Elkano | s/life/live/ |
| 17:58.50 | Tem | they have been exposed for a while |
| 17:58.57 | Iriel | They're present in the live builds, but I dont think they're "active" |
| 17:59.00 | Tem | I don't know if anyone has tried calling them yet |
| 17:59.10 | Iriel | I called a bunch of them when they first appeared |
| 17:59.21 | Iriel | Some of them return data |
| 17:59.21 | Kirkburn | Legorol^ I often take a Dover-Calais boat |
| 17:59.31 | Iriel | But it's data about my quests or whatever |
| 17:59.48 | Iriel | Nothing involving other people did anything, but that may just be because nobody else is calling the APIs |
| 18:00.07 | Tem | When Tseric posted that there were "a lot of cool new UI features coming in 1.11" I was hoping they meant the LFG UI |
| 18:01.02 | Kirkburn | Legorol^, why? It's normally pretty calm and about 1 1/2 hrs (I think) |
| 18:01.57 | Abenadi[FoF] | I just hope that there's a function you can call to get the 'raid symbol' assigned to a mob |
| 18:02.29 | Iriel | Still no calls to LFGQuery or GetNumLFGResults |
| 18:03.03 | Kirkburn | :( We'll have to hope for 1.12 |
| 18:03.08 | Iriel | GetRaidTargetIndex ? |
| 18:03.18 | Iriel | it takes a unit |
| 18:03.21 | Iriel | and returns an index |
| 18:04.06 | Legorol^ | Kirkburn: i need to cross from Dover to Calais via car |
| 18:04.12 | Crispix | Are there any pallies in here that can give me an idea about how my respec looks? |
| 18:04.13 | Legorol^ | i don't know if i shoudl take ferry or eurotunnel |
| 18:04.25 | Legorol^ | do you have a rough idea of how long it takes and what the prices are? |
| 18:04.32 | Kirkburn | Depends on how much you want to pay, and if you want to be able to relax during the journey |
| 18:04.36 | Legorol^ | oops, i better take it to PM :) |
| 18:04.40 | Legorol^ | (sorry for channel hijack) |
| 18:04.44 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 18:04.59 | Kaso | tunnel is like 30min ferry is getting on an hour and a half if my memeory serves me |
| 18:04.59 | Abenadi[FoF] | anyone else not able to access wowwiki API? http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API |
| 18:05.38 | Iriel | I get a DB error |
| 18:05.41 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah same |
| 18:05.44 | Abenadi[FoF] | thanks |
| 18:05.54 | Kirkburn | I'm trying to update a page, too :/ |
| 18:06.33 | Kirkburn | Ah, page went through (I updated www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.11_%28Release_Notes%29#Undocumented_Changes again) |
| 18:06.42 | Legorol^ | oh lol, i looked at the eurotunnel webpage, it was saying departure: 12:01, arrival: 13:36 |
| 18:06.52 | Legorol^ | i thought that's a bit too long, until i realised they are probably both in local time :) |
| 18:06.58 | Kirkburn | Yeah :P |
| 18:06.59 | Abenadi[FoF] | question for you mod experts - is there a way to get the rank of a spell that is being cast? I think the spellcast start event only gives casting time and spellname (without rank) |
| 18:07.31 | Kirkburn | I take the boat because it's a nice break, and you can go eat and you get nice views |
| 18:07.49 | Legorol^ | as long as its about an hour/hour and a half, sounds like ok |
| 18:07.55 | Legorol^ | maybe i can time my trip to have lunch then |
| 18:08.09 | Legorol^ | thanks Kirkburn |
| 18:08.10 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Hummm could anyone explaine to me the last two verses of this quote: " I am two fools, I know, For loving and saying so In whinning poetry; [[[But where's that wise man, that would not be I,If she would not deny ]]]?" |
| 18:08.29 | Legorol^ | later folks |
| 18:08.30 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 18:08.34 | Shouryuu|Crazy | seee you |
| 18:09.15 | Kirkburn | Shouryuu|Crazy, we probably require the rest of the poem =) |
| 18:09.25 | Kirkburn | Unless that's it? |
| 18:09.26 | Shouryuu|Crazy | http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/triplefool.htm |
| 18:09.29 | Shouryuu|Crazy | nay |
| 18:09.47 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Does he mean he wouldn't be a fool if she wouldn't deny his love? |
| 18:10.16 | Kirkburn | Christ, it's like Land of the Double Negatives |
| 18:10.22 | Shouryuu|Crazy | yeah lol |
| 18:10.26 | Abenadi[FoF] | anyone? spell rank? |
| 18:10.29 | Shouryuu|Crazy | That's why it's hurting my head |
| 18:10.55 | Cide | Abenadi[FoF]: it would take some work |
| 18:11.19 | Cide | you'd have to hook UseAction (check action button) and the CastSpell functions, most likely |
| 18:11.33 | Kirkburn | Don't know Shouryuu|Crazy, sorry :( Strange choice of a Vermeer there |
| 18:11.34 | Kirov | Abenadi - basically you have to log the spell cast at the time of the button press instead of just watching for the event |
| 18:12.05 | Abenadi[FoF] | is that a registerevent I can do or ? I'm a hooking noob |
| 18:12.50 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Kirkburn Agreed |
| 18:13.23 | Kirkburn | I can get http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API now ... it might have been me that caused the problem :P |
| 18:15.23 | Crispix | wow.. 1.11 looks like a nice patch :D |
| 18:15.25 | Kirkburn | WoWWiki isn't a fan of editing long pacges |
| 18:15.30 | Kirkburn | *pages |
| 18:15.45 | Kirkburn | Aye, Crispix =) |
| 18:16.00 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I won't be there for it =( |
| 18:16.10 | Shouryuu|Crazy | All my guild will be level 70 and I'll be the uber noob |
| 18:16.15 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I'm already the uber noob |
| 18:16.46 | Shouryuu|Crazy | since they're all in MC gear, and I'm not even in pre-MC.... Buuuuut that's life.. |
| 18:17.00 | Crispix | Kirkburn--> http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4913 |
| 18:17.31 | Kirkburn | Shouryuu|Crazy, I have the same thing, but I'm not bothered ... play for fun :) |
| 18:18.19 | Shouryuu|Crazy | But I like my guild, and if I can't play with them.. Won't be as much fun |
| 18:19.15 | Kirkburn | Make them! hehe |
| 18:19.21 | Shouryuu|Crazy | hehe |
| 18:19.22 | Kirkburn | Crispix, I'm still trying to load that page |
| 18:20.27 | Crispix | o_O |
| 18:20.32 | Crispix | Its wow interface.. |
| 18:20.35 | Crispix | it shouldn't be that bad |
| 18:21.32 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Man those verse are driving me crazy |
| 18:21.56 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I'll ask my english teacher and pray he understands.. |
| 18:29.02 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 18:29.12 | Tha-Doctor | ur not the only one having problems with that |
| 18:33.31 | Tha-Doctor | where can i find a manual for the WoW UI Designer ? |
| 18:34.44 | Tha-Doctor | nvm there is an tutorial in it |
| 18:34.44 | Tha-Doctor | lol |
| 18:36.12 | kremonte | e_e |
| 18:36.15 | kremonte | anyone's honor not update? |
| 18:36.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:36.51 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 18:43.10 | Tem | Kirkburn: you around? |
| 18:43.15 | Kirkburn | aYE |
| 18:43.21 | Tem | you speak italian, right? |
| 18:43.26 | Kirkburn | [Caps Lock Must Die] |
| 18:43.30 | Tem | teehee |
| 18:43.30 | Kirkburn | Yup |
| 18:43.37 | Tem | what's "ogne?" |
| 18:43.51 | Kirkburn | Ogni? |
| 18:44.04 | Kirkburn | Ogni means 'every' |
| 18:44.04 | Tem | it may be old |
| 18:44.09 | Tem | k |
| 18:44.26 | Tem | "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" |
| 18:44.37 | Tem | (the source of the question) |
| 18:44.59 | Kirkburn | Ah I see |
| 18:45.54 | Kirkburn | Yeah, I'm sure it means 'every' in that case |
| 18:47.02 | Tem | it's funny how you can figure the meaning of words and recognize roots when you know what they mean beforehand |
| 18:48.20 | Kirkburn | Dammit, I'm sure wowwiki hates me |
| 18:48.57 | Tem | no, it appears to be borked atm |
| 18:49.43 | Kirkburn | I always get the feeling it's my fault |
| 18:57.20 | Crispix | ahhhhh nothing like being clean and freshly shaven ^_^ |
| 18:58.21 | Kirkburn | Too ... much ... information! |
| 18:58.32 | grimman | Is the WinHEC stuff still going? |
| 18:59.26 | Tha-Doctor | hmmm |
| 19:00.24 | Kirkburn | No more live broadcast |
| 19:00.40 | Kirkburn | Obviously WinHEC itself is still going |
| 19:00.40 | grimman | ok |
| 19:00.47 | grimman | Well yes, but you got what I meant. |
| 19:00.56 | grimman | Since you replied with the info I wanted. ;P |
| 19:00.58 | Kirkburn | And they've released the Office and Vista betas |
| 19:01.01 | grimman | /pat Kirkburn |
| 19:01.02 | Kirkburn | =) |
| 19:01.03 | grimman | ^^ |
| 19:01.26 | grimman | ZING! |
| 19:01.43 | grimman | Idea. I could re-create the Command & Conquer UI for WoW. |
| 19:02.09 | Kirkburn | Uh |
| 19:02.14 | Tem | got a screenshot of it? |
| 19:02.14 | Kirkburn | Yeeaaaahh |
| 19:02.19 | Tem | I dun remember what it looks like |
| 19:02.35 | Kirkburn | Bar on the left of the screen, no? |
| 19:02.40 | grimman | Right. |
| 19:02.40 | Kirkburn | Or was it right? |
| 19:02.43 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 19:02.52 | grimman | Seriously, it's all there. |
| 19:02.55 | Kirkburn | Map at the top, build buttons below |
| 19:03.24 | Kirkburn | Yes. Except we don't exactly build stuff in WoW :P |
| 19:03.41 | krka | obviously you're nota a mage |
| 19:03.59 | Cide | lightwell? :) |
| 19:04.07 | grimman | Buttons don't have to be for building. ;P |
| 19:04.11 | krka | C&C sounds would be cool too |
| 19:04.17 | grimman | http://www.coolgamescentral.com/forest01.gif |
| 19:04.28 | krka | i'd totally use a C&C ui |
| 19:04.30 | grimman | Look at it, it's even got an exp meter. |
| 19:04.49 | krka | that's obviously a mana meter :P |
| 19:04.51 | Crispix | Realms are up kiddos! |
| 19:08.12 | grimman | "Nike to Offer 'iPod Ready' Shoes" |
| 19:10.24 | grimman | http://loot.dlxmedia.net/phone_bacon.mp3 << Whoever made that scares me. |
| 19:10.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.244) |
| 19:11.15 | Kirkburn | Crispix, how fast is login? |
| 19:13.32 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:15.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem___ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
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| 19:25.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@85.24.45.37) |
| 19:36.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@69.45.67.93) |
| 19:40.58 | Tem | ~seen iriel |
| 19:41.01 | purl | iriel is currently on #wowi-lounge (2h 5m 16s). Has said a total of 30 messages. Is idling for 1h 35m 23s, last said: 'I get a DB error'. |
| 19:41.32 | Iriel | Me? |
| 19:41.53 | Tem | ~exception Iriel |
| 19:41.54 | purl | ACTION throws a NullPointerException at Iriel. |
| 19:43.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge grimman (i=sco@h208n1fls35o916.telia.com) |
| 19:47.37 | Abenadi[FoF] | I'm trying to "get" hooking functions in WoW. Can someone point me to a good tutorial besides the one on wowwiki (which I don't quite get)? |
| 19:47.55 | Industrial | in stacks of what do wsg marks stack? |
| 19:47.57 | Industrial | 20? =P |
| 19:48.00 | Industrial | ill find out >:) |
| 19:48.07 | End | 20 |
| 19:48.13 | Industrial | k |
| 19:48.25 | Industrial | http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/games/wow/shots/views/WoWScrnShot_052306_201302.jpg |
| 19:48.28 | Industrial | ;o |
| 19:48.34 | haste | jpg whore! |
| 19:48.36 | haste | ;D |
| 19:48.45 | Industrial | look at the filesize |
| 19:48.48 | End | no, just plain whore |
| 19:48.56 | End | jpg has nothing to do with it |
| 19:49.02 | Industrial | End: shh we agreed not to do this |
| 19:49.09 | haste | aaw :o |
| 19:49.10 | End | oh, right right |
| 19:49.24 | Industrial | aaaanyway |
| 19:49.29 | Industrial | 10 alli vs 6 horde :< |
| 19:49.37 | Industrial | 2/3 and they were spawn killing |
| 19:49.48 | Industrial | but i still was second :> |
| 19:49.50 | haste | such gankers |
| 19:50.00 | Industrial | well they worked together |
| 19:50.07 | Industrial | even a lv 12 mage caused me trouble |
| 19:50.31 | Industrial | they just pummel 1 by one |
| 19:50.37 | Industrial | so the mage freezes me then poly |
| 19:50.39 | Industrial | so im fucked |
| 19:50.40 | Industrial | :< |
| 19:50.46 | haste | ~comfort Industrial |
| 19:50.52 | purl | There, there, Industrial. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 19:50.55 | Industrial | rawr |
| 19:50.58 | Industrial | ~rawr |
| 19:51.01 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 19:51.07 | haste | :o |
| 19:51.15 | Industrial | ^^ |
| 19:52.09 | haste | can you give me some motivation to code a web site? |
| 19:52.14 | End | no. |
| 19:52.16 | haste | I think I lost mine yesterday |
| 19:52.17 | End | noone can. |
| 19:52.20 | haste | :( |
| 19:52.23 | End | :( |
| 19:52.43 | Industrial | haste: djangoproject.org |
| 19:52.43 | haste | I'll go get a bucket of ice cream and cry some instead then |
| 19:52.52 | Industrial | haste: go poke that |
| 19:52.59 | Industrial | haste: I DONT CARE that you dont know python |
| 19:53.04 | Industrial | ;D |
| 19:53.18 | haste | damn you! |
| 19:53.25 | haste | Python is on my "you need to know this" list tho' |
| 19:53.31 | Industrial | :) |
| 19:53.35 | Industrial | ts really fun |
| 19:53.40 | Industrial | (djago) |
| 19:53.45 | Industrial | django* |
| 19:54.15 | haste | I should make myself a link portal or something |
| 19:54.27 | haste | it's really starting to buckle up in my little text file |
| 19:56.52 | netcurse | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/items-22691-corrupted-ashbringer.html you can play the in game sounds :) |
| 20:02.14 | Kaso | How are the "Similar Items" related |
| 20:03.42 | Kaso | netcurse |
| 20:04.20 | netcurse | err this is just a random focntion atm |
| 20:04.27 | netcurse | this is a very light verion of the db :) |
| 20:04.30 | netcurse | version* |
| 20:04.40 | netcurse | we have put it online just for the 1.11 patch |
| 20:04.55 | netcurse | when patch is live we ll have a full db like thottbot with lots of cool feature := |
| 20:05.04 | Kaso | can i ask, without meaning to sound rude, why bother with an item DB ? |
| 20:05.33 | netcurse | All the good DB are owned by IGE right now |
| 20:05.51 | netcurse | we want one not IGE related that s all |
| 20:06.01 | Kaso | hmm, fair enough |
| 20:06.13 | netcurse | + we think we can bring lots of good idear from our gaming experience |
| 20:06.16 | Kirkburn | Btw, you need to update your code for inserting flash objects - it's got the activation thing in IE7 still |
| 20:06.20 | netcurse | since at curse we are all players :) |
| 20:07.05 | Gryphen | is there a way around that kirk? |
| 20:08.00 | Kirkburn | Just looking it up |
| 20:08.43 | Gryphen | i was under the impression you cant |
| 20:10.21 | Kirkburn | http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/activating_activex.asp |
| 20:10.24 | Gryphen | good luck with your item db, ill still be using thott |
| 20:10.33 | Kirkburn | Took a while to find, but that should help |
| 20:10.56 | Kirkburn | (I know it can be solved - the latest Dreamweaver update changed the default code to the new style) |
| 20:15.15 | Maldivia | netcurse: I doubt you'll have a full db :) |
| 20:15.36 | netcurse | Maldivia why i wouldn t ? |
| 20:15.48 | netcurse | i received allready hundred of itemcache |
| 20:16.00 | netcurse | allready got 25 000 items in the db |
| 20:16.01 | Tain | Frankly I don't think it would be a bad thing to start a new fresh items db. |
| 20:16.11 | netcurse | from 1.11 patch |
| 20:16.17 | Tain | thott's still has old info. |
| 20:16.20 | Maldivia | netcurse: that's nice, considering there aren't that many :) |
| 20:16.37 | netcurse | our db will do versioning |
| 20:16.41 | netcurse | alla and thott doesn t |
| 20:16.51 | netcurse | that s why it get old |
| 20:17.16 | Maldivia | well, there are some really rare items, that's hard to come by |
| 20:17.26 | Tain | Of course I have to be honest, the look and layout of curse is not to my liking and it makes me want to use it less. But I'm just one person, I'm not suggesting others don't prefer it. |
| 20:17.53 | Gryphen | even with old info, i still find what i want on thott |
| 20:18.16 | Tain | There's nothing wrong with more "competition" |
| 20:18.19 | Tain | It's good for everyone. |
| 20:18.31 | Gryphen | there is also goblin and guru |
| 20:18.33 | Maldivia | netcurse: also, wowguru does versioning |
| 20:18.50 | Gryphen | and ct |
| 20:18.51 | Tain | Dunno anything about goblin and that other one is less than worthless. |
| 20:19.17 | Industrial | I will not support a company that makes millions per month by selling ingame gold, that owns other companies that own addon sites. |
| 20:19.38 | Kirkburn | i.e. Go CG? :) |
| 20:19.46 | Tain | It keeps the games going! |
| 20:20.11 | Tain | It's good for business. :) |
| 20:20.14 | Kirkburn | netcurse, I support you! |
| 20:20.19 | Industrial | ditto |
| 20:21.07 | Kirkburn | More traffic to sites without gold ads = goodness =) |
| 20:21.08 | Maldivia | well, I'll continue to use my own item db :) |
| 20:21.16 | Industrial | Im fine with organisations |
| 20:21.18 | Tain | You sir are speshul! |
| 20:21.27 | Industrial | but only if they are non profit |
| 20:21.31 | netcurse | Maldivia, i don t know about wowguru i never used that site :p |
| 20:21.38 | netcurse | i ll check it |
| 20:21.51 | Tain | At least make it so curse-gaming's columns are dynamic, everything being fixed width makes me crazy. |
| 20:22.06 | wereHamster | netcurse, will there be an easy interface for querying items from an application? |
| 20:22.08 | Tain | Don't check it out, there's no reason to cause even a single additional hit to that site. |
| 20:22.25 | Maldivia | Tain: are we bitter today? |
| 20:22.37 | Gryphen | seems it |
| 20:22.38 | Tain | Why qualify that with "today?" |
| 20:22.38 | wereHamster | or a database dump for offline viewing? |
| 20:22.42 | netcurse | their will be wereHamster |
| 20:22.45 | Industrial | Tain: hehe |
| 20:22.51 | netcurse | the querying |
| 20:22.56 | Tain | I simply refuse to support racist site owners. If you do thta's your business. |
| 20:23.03 | wereHamster | db dump would be even nicer ;) |
| 20:23.27 | netcurse | we ll provide xml etc but not full dump :p |
| 20:23.34 | netcurse | even tho you can dump it with a small script |
| 20:24.01 | wereHamster | sounds good .. |
| 20:24.03 | Maldivia | hmm, I should probably redo my database aswell... |
| 20:24.06 | netcurse | Tain i m not geting what you talk about ? |
| 20:25.37 | Maldivia | netcurse: your spell db isn't up yet (the proc links on the items are 404) |
| 20:25.50 | netcurse | yes it s a very early stage :) |
| 20:26.06 | netcurse | expect most of the stuff up within 2 weeks including profiler etc. |
| 20:26.47 | Kirkburn | I am indeed a little confused by your comment, Tain |
| 20:27.05 | Maldivia | ohh, items you'll have trouble getting for your database at the moment, are all the seasonal stuff |
| 20:28.39 | Cairenn | he's talking about WoWGuru and zeeg's commentary in this channel by times |
| 20:28.53 | Kirkburn | I just got that :P |
| 20:28.57 | netcurse | ah ok |
| 20:29.40 | Gryphen | zeeg wasnt owner, and hes gone now |
| 20:29.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 20:29.44 | Cairenn | and, /sigh, yet again .... we are not, nor have we ever been, owned by IGE, and I'm getting gd sick and tired of this conversation ... also, I would expect guests in this channel to treat one another with respect and courtesy the same as the regulars do |
| 20:30.43 | Maldivia | Do we treat eachother with respect and courtesy... hmm, I guess we do :) |
| 20:32.06 | Kirkburn | Ah, the good old days of listening to zeeg droning on ... |
| 20:32.53 | Maldivia | I'd wish the wow forum login would start to work soon... I've had a post I've been waiting to post for 9 hours now... |
| 20:33.01 | Kirkburn | What's that? |
| 20:33.10 | Maldivia | just a bug report |
| 20:33.37 | Kirkburn | You can log in to realms though? |
| 20:33.48 | Maldivia | dunno - haven't tried |
| 20:33.54 | Kirkburn | Hmm, WoWI has decided it won't be opening for me today :( |
| 20:34.17 | Kirkburn | It just sits there with the OGaming banner, and a blank background |
| 20:34.35 | Maldivia | works fine here |
| 20:35.01 | Kirkburn | Works in FF but not IE7 |
| 20:35.15 | Kirkburn | Can someone check in IE7? |
| 20:35.20 | Maldivia | I don't see that as a problem... |
| 20:35.23 | Maldivia | :) |
| 20:36.13 | Gryphen | works in ie7 here |
| 20:36.43 | Kirkburn | :( Then why not with me! |
| 20:36.47 | Beladona | ie7 is of the devil |
| 20:36.57 | Gryphen | ff is of the devil |
| 20:37.09 | Beladona | yeah, but he is the better son |
| 20:37.14 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 20:37.26 | Kirkburn | Teh Nets is of teh devilll!!!eleventytove |
| 20:38.07 | Kirkburn | He's still a bastard (...son) |
| 20:40.10 | Kirkburn | Oh wait, y'know I said it worked in FF |
| 20:40.31 | Kirkburn | It's doesn't either, it got a little further (the WoWI logo), then stopped |
| 20:40.47 | Gryphen | hehe |
| 20:40.51 | ckknight | message from zeeg: http://www.davidcramer.net/ige-subsidiaries/ |
| 20:40.53 | Gryphen | format |
| 20:41.22 | ckknight | don't know why he came to me, of all people |
| 20:42.06 | Gryphen | speculation ftw |
| 20:43.17 | Tem | ckknight: why would you bother passing it on then? |
| 20:43.29 | Kirkburn | That is a good point |
| 20:43.32 | Tem | you agree that he's a waste of oxygen |
| 20:43.55 | Kirkburn | I don't quite understand his comment on search engine standards |
| 20:44.11 | Industrial | hu? where? |
| 20:44.21 | Kirkburn | On the blog page |
| 20:44.43 | Kirkburn | He comments that pages should have an H1 which is a short descrip of a site |
| 20:45.02 | [MoonWolf] | that would not be very logical |
| 20:45.10 | Kirkburn | We already have meta tags, not to mention the fact that H1 is a style, not a field |
| 20:45.16 | [MoonWolf] | yeah |
| 20:45.19 | Industrial | lol |
| 20:45.27 | Industrial | *snap* back to reality |
| 20:45.28 | Codayus | Heh, zeeg's always good for a laugh. |
| 20:45.35 | Industrial | metatags arent used any more, those are from 1999 |
| 20:45.42 | Industrial | he is right on this matter |
| 20:45.57 | Industrial | and he only says you should use the title of the index page to describe it |
| 20:45.59 | Tain | haha Robot Chicken is your friend. Especially when they take a hard look at FFVII http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAUoUv8MXE |
| 20:46.06 | Industrial | its good valid search engine optimalisation |
| 20:46.16 | Tain | No, it really isn't. |
| 20:46.26 | Gryphen | optimalisation hehe |
| 20:46.41 | Kirkburn | The title of a page is just what it should show on the title bar. That's all. |
| 20:46.57 | End | The title of the page should be the title of the page. |
| 20:47.03 | Industrial | well ok. filling it with keywords is a bit dubious |
| 20:47.07 | Industrial | but it should describe the site |
| 20:47.13 | Kirkburn | I hate sites that do that :( |
| 20:47.30 | Kirkburn | Especially if I want to add it to my favourites |
| 20:48.16 | Industrial | uh, rename it? |
| 20:48.31 | Tain | Yeah, but then you end up with duplicates if you forget and bookmark it twice. :( |
| 20:48.36 | Codayus | His point about not linking stuff with "click here" is a good idea even if you could care less about SEO. |
| 20:48.38 | Kirkburn | Well yes, but it's an unneccessary annoyance |
| 20:48.43 | Codayus | It's just annoying. :-) |
| 20:49.06 | Tain | Yeah Codayus, but that was the case in 1998 as well, nothing new here. |
| 20:49.14 | Codayus | Och aye. |
| 20:49.20 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 20:49.20 | Industrial | http://www.seochat.com/ |
| 20:49.23 | Codayus | But hey, it's zeeg. |
| 20:49.23 | Industrial | start reading there |
| 20:49.41 | Codayus | That looks suspiciously like a site about SEO. |
| 20:49.47 | Tha-Doctor | bye all :) |
| 20:50.02 | Kirkburn | Bloody private server owners :) |
| 20:50.39 | [MoonWolf] | I'll say one thing on that subject. |
| 20:50.43 | Kirkburn | (if you were wondering why I said that, notice who just quit) |
| 20:50.52 | Codayus | Oh? |
| 20:51.11 | [MoonWolf] | Aside fromt he legal issues, I have great respect for people who build software like that. |
| 20:51.26 | Codayus | It is an impressive technical task... |
| 20:51.32 | [MoonWolf] | very |
| 20:51.33 | Kirkburn | Techinically brilliant, morally dubious |
| 20:51.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 20:51.46 | Tain | I personally don't have any issue with it until people start trying to charge for it. |
| 20:51.48 | Tain | Then screw 'em. |
| 20:51.56 | Codayus | ...so's synthesizing narcotics in your kitchen too... :-D |
| 20:52.14 | [MoonWolf] | well there are a few laws and some moral problems but technological its very cool |
| 20:52.23 | Tain | You'll get my bathroom crystal meth lab when you pry it from my cold, dead hands! |
| 20:52.28 | [MoonWolf] | there are a few servers out there with some features i wish wow had. |
| 20:52.32 | Codayus | I've never really understood the point though... |
| 20:52.33 | Codayus | Oh? |
| 20:52.39 | Codayus | What kind of feature? |
| 20:52.44 | Tain | It's the point of everything. |
| 20:52.45 | [MoonWolf] | Subclasses. |
| 20:52.47 | Tain | "Because you can." |
| 20:52.52 | Codayus | Ah. |
| 20:53.04 | Kirkburn | One can report the link to Blizz can one not? |
| 20:53.04 | Codayus | Which reminds me, I want hero classes. |
| 20:53.12 | [MoonWolf] | The naming is a problem, but they fixed it by prefixing the name of the char. |
| 20:53.37 | Codayus | How does the subclass idea work? |
| 20:54.05 | [MoonWolf] | For instance, at lvl x you go do a quest, you get an item as a reward |
| 20:54.37 | [MoonWolf] | if u use the item your char is changed, your name is prefixed etc. |
| 20:54.42 | [MoonWolf] | Changes I have seen. |
| 20:55.20 | [MoonWolf] | Pure Combat rogue, The rogue gets 300 energy but it regenerates slower. He gets mail armor but looses stealth and associated skills. |
| 20:55.31 | Depherios | Subclasses would be nice... but I'd just like to see Blizz make gear for specs that they don't have hardly any gear for (like the poor balance druids wearing cloth) |
| 20:56.09 | Tain | I would be strongly against adding any subclasses, they need to get the existing talent trees better "balanced" before anything like that occured. |
| 20:56.15 | [MoonWolf] | The reverse a 50 energy rogue that has increased regeneration but looses combat like skills like evade and sinister strike altogheter. |
| 20:56.18 | Codayus | Sounds a lot like some of the ideas for hero classes I've seen floating around. |
| 20:56.32 | [MoonWolf] | Yep, but they MADE them. |
| 20:56.42 | Codayus | Scroll down to the post entitled "april fools" here for example: http://tkasomething.com/ |
| 20:56.57 | [MoonWolf] | most interesting was a warlock who had his mana replaced for a focus bar. |
| 20:57.06 | [MoonWolf] | and all spells adapted. |
| 20:57.10 | [MoonWolf] | never played on that server though |
| 20:57.13 | [MoonWolf] | cant remember the name. |
| 20:57.15 | Codayus | One of the example there is a hunter with energy instead of mana and no pet. |
| 20:58.46 | [MoonWolf] | Very intersting concepts can be done. |
| 20:59.15 | Codayus | I like the *idea* of serious tradeoffs and changes - changing from mana to energy, losing the pet, losing stealth, gaining ability to use different armor types, etc. |
| 20:59.19 | Codayus | Balancing them...heh. |
| 20:59.26 | [MoonWolf] | yeah okay |
| 20:59.38 | [MoonWolf] | im not saying all the subclasses were equalliy balanced |
| 20:59.41 | [MoonWolf] | probably not |
| 20:59.45 | [MoonWolf] | because that is damn hard. |
| 21:00.00 | Codayus | Yeah, I know. If hero classes make it to WoW, they may be a similar idea though. And they WOULD need to be balanced. |
| 21:00.13 | Codayus | Which may explain why there aren't any hero classes yet. :-D |
| 21:00.15 | Kirkburn | That post has been around for aaaaages |
| 21:00.22 | Kirkburn | It's not true and never has been :) |
| 21:00.28 | [MoonWolf] | Someone else suggested a hero classes idea like this: |
| 21:00.41 | Codayus | Kirkburn: Obviously. |
| 21:01.02 | [MoonWolf] | once you attain hero status you get a number of points wich you can use to "buy" additional modifiers skills abilities etc. |
| 21:01.09 | [MoonWolf] | possibly even sell existing ones |
| 21:01.36 | [MoonWolf] | so a hunter might give up mail armor to free up more points and buy more weapon skills for them. |
| 21:01.53 | Codayus | One obvious way of doing it that I believe a lot of games have done is have "hero levels", each hero level you get a "hero point" which can be spent in a new hero talent tree (and only there). |
| 21:02.08 | [MoonWolf] | or you might get yourself passive abilities that grant extra hp or extra resistance etc |
| 21:02.15 | [MoonWolf] | let your imagination go wild. |
| 21:02.16 | Codayus | I believe a bliz rep commented they wanted to avoid that idea though. (Which is good; it sucks.) |
| 21:02.28 | [MoonWolf] | my idea ? |
| 21:02.34 | Codayus | No, the hero levels. |
| 21:02.36 | [MoonWolf] | (not actually mine) |
| 21:02.40 | [MoonWolf] | ah yeah that would be stupid |
| 21:03.13 | [MoonWolf] | if you do that might asswell give every class an aditional talent tree and up the points per level to two. |
| 21:03.22 | Codayus | AO did it that way, and I think EQ or DaoC may have too? NEver played either. Ends up being a fricking insane XP (or as AO had it Shadowknowledge) grind...bleh. |
| 21:03.24 | [MoonWolf] | that would be more flexible. |
| 21:03.59 | Tain | EQ's Alternate Advancement skills were horrible grinds, yet people did it. |
| 21:04.29 | Codayus | In AO terms, IIRC, the first 200 levels were "normal". From 200 to 220 were shadowknowledge (SK) levels, and yo could only kill a handful of mobs to gain SK, and each level needed an *INSANE* amount of SK. |
| 21:04.32 | Tain | The skills were nice, but it quickly became that some of them were absolute "must haves" for raids and so you had no choice but to gind out dozens of levels. |
| 21:04.52 | [MoonWolf] | yep my idea removes |
| 21:04.53 | [MoonWolf] | that |
| 21:04.56 | Codayus | *nod* |
| 21:04.59 | [MoonWolf] | you simply do a quest (a hard one) |
| 21:05.05 | [MoonWolf] | and you have it |
| 21:05.17 | [MoonWolf] | then you modify your existing class, not yust add to it. |
| 21:05.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 21:05.29 | Codayus | Have something trigger/unlock the "hero" state. Then be able to customize your character or choose from several (hopefully) alternatives. |
| 21:05.32 | [MoonWolf] | maybe have the game pick a hero class name for you. |
| 21:05.36 | Kirkburn | Reversible? |
| 21:05.45 | [MoonWolf] | respec like idea |
| 21:05.48 | [MoonWolf] | but more expensive |
| 21:05.50 | Codayus | It would be...not nice to find out that, say, every race/class combo got access to one hero class, and you'd chosen to boobie prize combo. :-D |
| 21:05.53 | Tain | Of course you could introduce a hero system like Star Wars Galaxies did originally with Jedis. :) |
| 21:05.55 | [MoonWolf] | possibly a quest involved in redoing. |
| 21:06.43 | Codayus | I could just see Dwarf Priests and Human Priests having different hero clases...and the Dwarf Priest hero class being 2x as good as the Human Priest one. :-) |
| 21:06.46 | Codayus | <--- Human priest |
| 21:06.49 | [MoonWolf] | for instance a warrior who adds a lot of hp and taking abilities might be named a juggernaught. |
| 21:07.09 | Codayus | At the cost of not being able to use 2h weapons at all - that'd be nifty. |
| 21:07.16 | Codayus | Unbalanced perhaps, but nifty. |
| 21:07.26 | [MoonWolf] | well the point is you choose. you make it. |
| 21:07.28 | Codayus | Ya |
| 21:07.40 | Kirkburn | Anyone know why ToT only works in parties? |
| 21:07.45 | Codayus | Huh? |
| 21:07.50 | Kirkburn | Target of target |
| 21:08.04 | Codayus | raid12targettargettarget works fine... |
| 21:08.11 | Codayus | Are you talking about some particular mod? |
| 21:08.15 | Kirkburn | (ok parties and raids) |
| 21:08.24 | Kirkburn | The new standard UI option |
| 21:08.29 | Codayus | Oh, on the PTR? |
| 21:08.35 | Codayus | Haven't been on the PTR. *cry* |
| 21:08.41 | Kirkburn | I keep hearing you can't use it on solo play |
| 21:08.45 | Kirkburn | Me neither :P |
| 21:10.36 | Kirkburn | I really love watching how conversations develop |
| 21:10.51 | Kirkburn | Someone saying 'goodbye' turned into a conversation about hero classes |
| 21:11.04 | Codayus | Heh |
| 21:11.38 | [MoonWolf] | fun. |
| 21:12.25 | Kirkburn | And there was a huge conversation swing earlier going through gold-selling, economics and how other games work, experience, and then eventually reached a discussion on 'competition' |
| 21:13.04 | Kirkburn | It's amazing what can come from a single comment or word |
| 21:14.13 | [MoonWolf] | i suggest a study in social dynamics. |
| 21:14.22 | grimman | I own so hard at Halo, FEAR and WoW. Can't decide which game to keep playing though. ;P |
| 21:14.45 | Tain | grimman: Can I suggest tic tac toe? |
| 21:14.58 | grimman | I just steamroll every opponent, Tain. |
| 21:15.39 | Tain | Paper, rock, scissors? |
| 21:16.23 | grimman | Meh... can't play a game like that where the balance is so fundamentally broken. |
| 21:16.26 | grimman | ;) |
| 21:16.32 | Tain | Hard to argue! |
| 21:17.30 | Kirkburn | Lol http://www.funmansion.com/html/Sexy-Case-Mod.html |
| 21:17.48 | Kirkburn | What about Counterstrike, do you own at CS? |
| 21:17.59 | Tain | I own at Scorched Earth. |
| 21:18.15 | grimman | I don't play CS. |
| 21:18.24 | grimman | But I did play Action Quake 2 when that was all the rage. |
| 21:18.43 | Elkano | Tain, Napalm on you :/ and a heavy roler to your side... |
| 21:18.43 | Kirkburn | ... 10 years ago |
| 21:18.55 | Kirov | kirkburn - that guy makes a ton of "case mods" like that |
| 21:19.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:19.13 | grimman | Oh, wait... I did play CS at some local game café. |
| 21:19.22 | grimman | And pwned the wee little hyper kids with some pistol. |
| 21:19.26 | grimman | AQ2-style. |
| 21:19.26 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 21:19.43 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Man I miss CS |
| 21:19.44 | Kirkburn | AWPing is fun :P |
| 21:19.49 | Wobin_ | I play rock, paper's fine. Nerf scissors |
| 21:20.06 | Shouryuu|Crazy | USP rocks |
| 21:20.07 | grimman | Although close quarters I sucked since I refused to use anything but pistol and the kids went full-auto or shotgun on my ass. |
| 21:20.12 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Kirkburn lol |
| 21:20.28 | Kirkburn | (see, it was even self-referentially ironic!) |
| 21:20.29 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I used to play pistol only on maps like IceWorld |
| 21:20.50 | Abenadi[FoF] | someone tell me how to detect if ALT is pressed in a mod function? |
| 21:20.51 | Kirkburn | I do love playing CS:S with bots |
| 21:21.15 | grimman | Heh heh, funny thing was that these hyper kids soon developed some rudimentary concept of teamwork. |
| 21:21.25 | grimman | "Jesus... let's all kill that pistol guy!" |
| 21:21.30 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Abenadi[FoF] I do believe you have to check for IsAltDown() periodicaly, not sure what's the best way |
| 21:21.37 | Shouryuu|Crazy | lol |
| 21:22.15 | Abenadi[FoF] | thanks i'll try it |
| 21:22.32 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I *strougly* doubt that's the best way to do it |
| 21:22.37 | Shouryuu|Crazy | *Strongly |
| 21:23.00 | grimman | Well if you don't have to monitor it constantly you can just check it when you call the function. ;P |
| 21:23.05 | Elkano | Shouryuu, that's what SEEmbedKeys does |
| 21:23.13 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah I don't need to monitor it constantly |
| 21:23.13 | Tem | Shouryuu|Crazy: that's the only way to do it |
| 21:23.21 | Elkano | but I don't know any better |
| 21:23.29 | Abenadi[FoF] | just if they call the function, see if alt is pressed at that time |
| 21:24.34 | Tem | right |
| 21:25.45 | [MoonWolf] | One way to piss of CS kids. |
| 21:26.09 | [MoonWolf] | Have a friend who knows and is known to play cs tell people that you suck at it and never play CS much. |
| 21:26.09 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Is AWP |
| 21:26.14 | [MoonWolf] | Enter a match. |
| 21:26.17 | [MoonWolf] | Kill them all. |
| 21:26.32 | [MoonWolf] | with something stupid like a p90. |
| 21:26.35 | Shouryuu|Crazy | lol |
| 21:26.48 | Shouryuu|Crazy | "Oh sorry, did I do that?" |
| 21:26.52 | [MoonWolf] | oops. |
| 21:26.57 | [MoonWolf] | ooh this gun must be pretty good. |
| 21:27.04 | grimman | I used to yell at CS kids, like a very old and equally grumpy man. |
| 21:27.34 | grimman | Mainly because I hadn't slept in ages and they were screaming "OMG ROFFLE HS HS YOU HSED ME!!!!!!" |
| 21:27.44 | grimman | With their shrill CS-kid voices. |
| 21:27.44 | Shouryuu|Crazy | hehe |
| 21:28.06 | grimman | (This took place at Dreamhack) |
| 21:28.28 | [MoonWolf] | you were at dreamhack ? |
| 21:28.30 | [MoonWolf] | bastard. |
| 21:28.43 | grimman | Been there a couple of times actually. |
| 21:28.46 | grimman | And yes, I am a bastard. |
| 21:28.50 | [MoonWolf] | Hate you now. |
| 21:28.55 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Dreamhack... ? |
| 21:28.58 | grimman | It was inevitable. |
| 21:29.07 | grimman | Shouryuu|Crazy: http://dreamhack.org/ |
| 21:29.30 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I HATE YOU TOO |
| 21:29.47 | Abenadi[FoF] | noob mod question - how do I save a variable (change is saved after WoW exits)? |
| 21:30.02 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Tag it in the saved variables |
| 21:30.07 | grimman | Abenadi[FoF]: ## SavedVariables: MyVariable |
| 21:30.11 | grimman | In the .toc-file. |
| 21:30.15 | Shouryuu|Crazy | There's a Howto on the wiki |
| 21:30.19 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Yeah I ment the toc, sorry |
| 21:30.20 | Abenadi[FoF] | and then I can just use it normally in the LUA file? |
| 21:30.26 | grimman | Yes. |
| 21:30.34 | Abenadi[FoF] | wiki link please? |
| 21:30.53 | Shouryuu|Crazy | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Save_Variables_Between_Game_Sessions |
| 21:30.59 | Abenadi[FoF] | tyvm sir |
| 21:31.04 | Shouryuu|Crazy | noo problem |
| 21:31.59 | Kirkburn | Hmm, I should remember that too, when I get round to coding my options screen |
| 21:34.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:38.39 | Abenadi[FoF] | sorry guess I killed the conversation in here |
| 21:38.49 | Iriel | Nah, it dies on its own |
| 21:38.54 | Iriel | what the hell did blizzard do to their forum? |
| 21:38.58 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Like most things do |
| 21:39.03 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Dunno |
| 21:40.21 | grimman | Time for bed. Last day at work tomorrow. After that I'm free to do whatever I please. ^^ |
| 21:40.26 | grimman | <3 freelance. |
| 21:40.50 | Shouryuu|Crazy | hehe |
| 21:40.51 | Shouryuu|Crazy | night |
| 21:41.23 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Well if anyone's bored they can always try to explain to me what this means "I am two fools, I know, For loving and saying so In whinning poetry; >>>>But where's that wise man, that would not be I,If she would not deny <<<<?" |
| 21:41.30 | grimman | Oh, gotta share this. Apparently some media company had contacted a friend of mine about some code I did for some other guy. |
| 21:41.55 | grimman | Dunno why people can't read grimman[at]gmail.com as a valid email addy. ,P |
| 21:41.58 | grimman | Oh well. Nn! |
| 21:42.05 | Shouryuu|Crazy | hehe |
| 21:42.13 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Sleep tight |
| 21:42.42 | Kirkburn | night night grimman |
| 21:43.34 | Kirkburn | Iriel, you mean the fact it's dead? |
| 21:43.45 | Iriel | Kirkburn : Yes |
| 21:43.56 | Kirkburn | new authentication system being put in |
| 21:44.03 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Ahhh |
| 21:44.03 | Kirkburn | I assume it's not connected up yet |
| 21:44.12 | Kirkburn | And since no-one can log in, there's not status report |
| 21:44.16 | Kirkburn | *no |
| 21:44.50 | Kirkburn | Which is humourous, but understandable :P |
| 21:45.34 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I have just found the dumbest search engine ever |
| 21:46.06 | Shouryuu|Crazy | "eternal sunshine" gives me 3 results, "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind" gives me 300... Am I not supposed to have less results with more info? |
| 21:46.49 | Elkano | depends on how the search engine processes the query |
| 21:47.31 | Kirkburn | Which? |
| 21:48.31 | Elkano | I skiped the lecture where I would have had to write one so not my fault ^^ |
| 21:49.30 | Shouryuu|Crazy | The world doesn't make sens! |
| 21:50.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-162-9.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:52.47 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I'm off |
| 21:52.50 | Shouryuu|Crazy | ta-ta |
| 21:52.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:56.17 | Elkano | http://666kb.com/i/ae97lqguity2lmf5r.jpg -> Polymorph: Pig ... WTF? |
| 21:59.32 | ToastTheif | anyone seen Zeeg around/ |
| 21:59.42 | Elkano | ~seen Zeeg |
| 21:59.48 | purl | zeeg <n=dc@67.63.84.74> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 18d 1h 51m 55s ago, saying: 'ciao'. |
| 22:00.04 | AnduinLothar | he was banned from here and cosmostesters i believe |
| 22:00.25 | ToastTheif | what'd he do lol |
| 22:00.35 | AnduinLothar | pisssed off cair |
| 22:00.42 | ToastTheif | mm |
| 22:01.11 | ToastTheif | too bad |
| 22:01.21 | ToastTheif | he always had good info on patches posted on wowguru |
| 22:01.22 | Tain | More than one person. |
| 22:01.25 | Tain | haha |
| 22:01.40 | AnduinLothar | ya but pissing of cair was the hard part |
| 22:01.53 | AnduinLothar | and pissing off me is equally as hard |
| 22:01.56 | groll | can someone help me come up with a word.. i cant thing of the correct one.... "the hmm cocept should be (instert word) reconsidered and rethinked |
| 22:02.09 | AnduinLothar | rethinked isn't a word |
| 22:02.10 | End | hamster |
| 22:02.19 | End | hamster is the word you are looking for |
| 22:02.22 | AnduinLothar | reevaluated |
| 22:02.37 | groll | thank you AnduinLothar :D your always helpfull :D |
| 22:02.44 | End | I'm never helpful :( |
| 22:02.54 | Tain | rethunk |
| 22:12.26 | Kirkburn | So no-one told ToastTheif that zeeg has left WoW entirely? |
| 22:12.41 | [MoonWolf] | We did in #wowace. |
| 22:12.55 | Kirkburn | Ah, k |
| 22:13.45 | Kirkburn | Elkano, didn't you know that was new in this patch? |
| 22:14.16 | Kirkburn | New polymorph shapes :) Cool, eh |
| 22:14.23 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:16.10 | Kirkburn | Aww, poor lonely forum poster ... http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8441908&p=1&tmp=1#post8441908 |
| 22:16.32 | Kirkburn | How has she not noticed that no-one's posted anything for more than four hours?? |
| 22:16.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (i=qw@102.80-202-35.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:26.27 | End | lol |
| 22:26.31 | End | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.46 | Codayus | Heh |
| 22:33.48 | Codayus | Stupid bliz forums. |
| 22:39.24 | Kaso | Polymorph: Pig wtf? that's news to me |
| 22:40.21 | End | hey, in Warcraft II I used to polymorph things into pigs all the time |
| 22:40.27 | End | seals too |
| 22:40.34 | End | :P |
| 22:40.44 | Kaso | so is that screenshot real? |
| 22:40.59 | Kirkburn | Yes |
| 22:41.50 | End | ahhh, so that's what archmage xylem is useful for now |
| 22:42.14 | End | or at least |
| 22:42.20 | End | that's what it looks like to me |
| 22:42.44 | End | (I do remember giving him something in a quest though) |
| 22:44.10 | Abenadi[FoF] | What is the difference when a variable is defined as local as opposed to being defined with nothing before the var name? |
| 22:44.35 | Cide | local varName; <-- local |
| 22:44.41 | Cide | lack of "local" = global |
| 22:44.50 | Cide | (most of the time) |
| 22:45.01 | Abenadi[FoF] | so does local just mean can't be accessed outside of the mod or? |
| 22:45.06 | Cide | outside of the block |
| 22:45.09 | Abenadi[FoF] | ok |
| 22:45.24 | Abenadi[FoF] | and what about when people define variables as this.variable = |
| 22:45.48 | Cide | "this" in that case is a table, with "variable" being the key name |
| 22:46.12 | Cide | frames and xml elements are tables, by the way |
| 22:46.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 22:46.30 | Abenadi[FoF] | I haven't gotten into wow UI coding yet |
| 22:46.40 | Abenadi[FoF] | not sure I understand the table thing |
| 22:47.13 | Cide | do you have experience with other languages? |
| 22:47.14 | Abenadi[FoF] | does that mean its not useful to define a variable as this.something unless its like a keyed array? |
| 22:47.26 | Abenadi[FoF] | php mostly |
| 22:47.37 | Cide | well, tables are kind of like arrays in php |
| 22:47.50 | Cide | they can have both integer and associative indices |
| 22:47.56 | Abenadi[FoF] | ok |
| 22:47.58 | Kirkburn | netcurse, comments I submit on my addon page aren't appearing :/ |
| 22:48.07 | netcurse | hmmm |
| 22:48.12 | netcurse | what page please ? |
| 22:49.10 | Cide | so, this.hiThere = 1 would be the equivalent of having the following code in php: $this = array(); // Initialize the array ... $this["hiThere"] = 1; // set the "hiThere" key to 1 |
| 22:49.11 | netcurse | basicly we are redoing all the caching system |
| 22:49.16 | Kirkburn | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2522-1-clearfont-v110004.html |
| 22:49.19 | netcurse | that s why it s messing up atm |
| 22:49.28 | netcurse | i see your comment |
| 22:49.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 22:49.32 | Abenadi[FoF] | OK Cide, so "this" is not a reserved word? |
| 22:49.33 | netcurse | It's not dead =) |
| 22:49.33 | netcurse | Ciao! |
| 22:49.33 | netcurse | Just a brief message to say I've not abandoned you, I'm just busy with Uni work atm. |
| 22:49.33 | Kirkburn | Twice? :P |
| 22:49.36 | Abenadi[FoF] | its just the name of the array? |
| 22:49.37 | netcurse | yep twice |
| 22:49.39 | Cide | Abenadi[FoF]: no |
| 22:49.42 | Cide | correct. |
| 22:49.45 | Kirkburn | lol, thought that might happen |
| 22:49.50 | Cide | it's the name of the table ("array") |
| 22:49.50 | netcurse | i delete one .P |
| 22:49.51 | Abenadi[FoF] | ok thus my confusion, thank you |
| 22:49.54 | Cide | however |
| 22:49.56 | Kirkburn | Thanks |
| 22:50.07 | netcurse | but yes the cache is a bit messy sorry about this |
| 22:50.10 | netcurse | the main problems is |
| 22:50.12 | Cide | World of Warcraft automatically sets the global variable "this" in relation to OnXYZ handlers |
| 22:50.22 | Cide | to be the frame that receives the call |
| 22:50.23 | netcurse | we have 5 servers http, that all manage their own cache for better loads |
| 22:50.34 | netcurse | and it s hard to have them all sync :) |
| 22:50.38 | Cide | if that makes sense |
| 22:51.35 | Abenadi[FoF] | I think I just got confused because I saw someone use "this.randomVarName" and I'm used to this being reserved in java |
| 22:51.53 | Cide | ah |
| 22:52.12 | Cide | it's not reserved in lua, no (I assume it's reserved for classes in java; something that isn't really available in lua) |
| 22:52.24 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah |
| 22:53.07 | Abenadi[FoF] | but it does seem to have some meaning in lua... its colored differently in my dreamweaver lua extension, and you can use this:RegisterEvent(etc etc) ? |
| 22:53.28 | Cide | it has some "special" meaning, but mostly because World of Warcraft gives it one |
| 22:53.38 | Abenadi[FoF] | i see |
| 22:53.39 | Cide | LUA itself treats it like just another variable, however |
| 22:53.53 | Abenadi[FoF] | thanks for your patience |
| 22:53.56 | Cide | it's kind of hard to explain since you don't have knowledge of frames |
| 22:54.31 | Cide | frames can have different handlers, such as <OnClick>, which is called when the frame receives a mouse click |
| 22:54.35 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah i get the sense i'm missing some core knowledge here but I have a better idea what's going on at least |
| 22:55.13 | Cide | World of Warcraft then sets the global variable "this" to the frame in question, so that you can use that variable instead of directly referencing the frame by its "real" name.. but I'm afraid I'm going to confuse you |
| 22:55.35 | Abenadi[FoF] | no that makes sense |
| 22:55.49 | Cide | ok, good! |
| 22:58.46 | Tem | Abenadi[FoF]: Beladona made that Dreamweaver extention with WoW in mind which is why he gave special coloring to 'this' |
| 22:58.56 | Abenadi[FoF] | yeah that's the one |
| 22:59.32 | Abenadi[FoF] | Realized that after cide explained |
| 23:00.48 | Kaso | the whole xml/gui part of wow addons is the last bit that really confuses me, shame its quite a big bit :< |
| 23:01.20 | Cide | it's not really that bad |
| 23:01.53 | Kaso | ive never used XML before, so its all terribly new and scary |
| 23:02.20 | Kaso | i wish there was some drag-and-drop style gui creater program |
| 23:05.18 | Wobin_ | There is... |
| 23:05.23 | Wobin_ | Lemme see if I can find the name |
| 23:05.31 | Kaso | oh really? |
| 23:06.10 | Tem | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info4222-WoW_UI_Designer.html |
| 23:06.27 | Tem | the code it creates for you is kinda messy, but it's a good place to start |
| 23:06.30 | Wobin_ | Thassit |
| 23:06.53 | Wobin_ | Hehe I've bypassed XML completely and gone into the lua generated frames |
| 23:07.16 | Tem | yeah, I <3 lua frames |
| 23:07.22 | Wobin_ | once you play around a bit, you get the idea fairly quickly |
| 23:07.25 | Kaso | thats helpful thanks |
| 23:07.45 | Wobin_ | especially if you use luaslinger or some other ingame editor so you can see the results immediately |
| 23:09.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=nickell@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 23:09.31 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 23:09.32 | Kirkburn | The official forums are up again |
| 23:09.49 | Qzot | Anyone know why the ban on GMs? |
| 23:09.52 | Kirkburn | Update: The new authentication system is going live in stages. Please note that the in-game petition system and the GM staff are still unavailable. We expect them to be back online by 5:00 PM tonight. |
| 23:10.15 | Kirkburn | Probably part of the same system |
| 23:10.25 | Wobin_ | hehe Ban on GMs |
| 23:10.28 | Kirkburn | More important to allow people to play, than allow them to complain =) |
| 23:11.15 | Kirkburn | Lol, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8441926 |
| 23:11.19 | Kirkburn | It's a CM roll-call! |
| 23:18.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 23:25.53 | Qzot | AnduinLother: You on? |
| 23:34.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@124.197.8.225) |
| 23:35.26 | zespri | So why exactly ReloadUI now needs hardware event? Iriel, you must know if nobody else... |
| 23:36.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:36.44 | norgs|away | so people can't use it to automatically get new data into the game? |
| 23:36.53 | Cairenn | presumably |
| 23:36.55 | Kaso | its prob to prevent addons automatically reloaduing to get data to the outside world |
| 23:37.01 | Kaso | darnit! i type slow |
| 23:37.35 | zespri | reloading takes ages. I can imagine a useful thing that could employ it |
| 23:37.36 | norgs|away | see, a reload does 2 things. 1) Saves all saved variables. 2) Reloads all lua |
| 23:37.40 | zespri | *can't |
| 23:37.53 | zespri | reload doesn't save variables afaik |
| 23:37.58 | norgs|away | it does |
| 23:38.00 | Miravlix | It does save data |
| 23:38.01 | AnduinLothar | yes it does |
| 23:38.05 | Qzot | Yes, it does. |
| 23:38.19 | zespri | lol. you pwned me =) |
| 23:38.38 | zespri | still |
| 23:38.39 | Qzot | AnduinLother: My quick hack works, and is failing miserably. |
| 23:38.42 | Miravlix | But still, can anyone mention a reason to load data into the game, where the exploiter isn't using a key presser? |
| 23:38.46 | norgs|away | i know - it's slow |
| 23:39.01 | norgs|away | and i don't agree with it |
| 23:39.30 | norgs|away | Miravlix: no |
| 23:39.37 | Qzot | AnduinLother: Too many of the interesting things which AddMessages to your chat frame have color, or are too long, and I disconnect myself when I try to redirect them to guild chat. RRgl. |
| 23:39.50 | norgs|away | this requiring a keypress for reloading is just plain stupid |
| 23:39.53 | Miravlix | And a key presser is a hardware event, so they can still reloadui |
| 23:40.34 | Kaso | Its not a huge problem is it, i mean apart from the nice /sleep script theres nothing it breaks is there? |
| 23:40.45 | zespri | Oh, I nominate this change as one of the most annoying changes for mod devs |
| 23:40.47 | norgs|away | am i still going to be able to /console reloadui? since chat commands don't count as a hardware event? |
| 23:40.50 | Miravlix | To the best of my knowglede perforing ReloadUI() doesn't break the afk and logout system |
| 23:41.02 | Miravlix | norgs|away: They do now |
| 23:41.14 | Miravlix | Didn't that change in 1.10.x? |
| 23:41.16 | norgs|away | o rly??? nice |
| 23:41.30 | norgs|away | i didn't notice |
| 23:41.35 | Miravlix | Or is it first in 1.11 that chat = hardware event |
| 23:41.55 | Kaso | no chat is hardware as of 1.10 |
| 23:42.17 | norgs|away | will clicking a custom button and then firing a ReloadUI() count as a hardware event? |
| 23:42.27 | Miravlix | norgs|away: Yeah |
| 23:42.41 | norgs|away | i can't really see a downside to this then? |
| 23:42.58 | Miravlix | I can't do operation; delay delay delay relaodUI |
| 23:42.59 | Kaso | apart from the /sleep script :> |
| 23:43.10 | norgs|away | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:43.17 | Miravlix | I use DoEmote("sleep");ReloadUI() |
| 23:43.46 | Miravlix | The emote is then cached and not performed until a bit after pew when the server tells the client we aren't synched as to how the char should be |
| 23:44.25 | Thrae | Pew? |
| 23:44.33 | Thrae | As in OMGLAZERZPEWPEW? |
| 23:44.34 | Miravlix | PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 23:44.37 | Thrae | Ahh |
| 23:45.19 | Miravlix | My ReloadUI updates performs a DND flag and emote and on finishing reload it removes the DND and do another emote |
| 23:45.34 | Miravlix | Problem is it's darn hard to get the new emote to happend after the cached emote |
| 23:46.06 | Kaso | that huge discusion about that yesterday amused me greatly |
| 23:47.07 | Miravlix | But I've made a 1.11 ReloadUI it's in our testserver branch. Having Chaos means I can get things to run delayed as much as I need, it's not a guarenteed system, but it's the best I can do |
| 23:47.26 | Miravlix | s/Chaos/Chronos/. |
| 23:48.23 | Miravlix | Hmm, I should make a Khaos menu for configuring it with an emote drop down list. |
| 23:51.35 | Kirkburn | Has anyone downloaded either the Vista or Office betas? |
| 23:59.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_C1 (n=KCummins@adsl-71-147-10-6.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
