| 00:12.00 | Kirkburn | It's quite fun randomly updating pages on the wiki |
| 00:13.37 | Legorol | Iriel, one important point to consider is that if/when/once people start addend documentation for the widget methods, |
| 00:13.47 | Iriel | Legorol : I already have to deal with that |
| 00:13.59 | Legorol | you would want to have the page as basetype:method |
| 00:14.11 | Iriel | the LINK is basetype:method regardless |
| 00:14.12 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 00:14.15 | Legorol | ah |
| 00:14.20 | Legorol | clever ;-) |
| 00:14.30 | Legorol | but that might cause confusion |
| 00:14.40 | Legorol | i'd go with basetype:method |
| 00:14.44 | Iriel | Yeah, I like how it looks with the explicit base type anyway |
| 00:14.47 | Iriel | so that's how i'll leave it |
| 00:15.00 | Iriel | I updated my script for multiple inheritance |
| 00:15.07 | Iriel | due to the font stuff |
| 00:15.09 | Legorol | looks like a great job well done! |
| 00:15.33 | Iriel | I might add a "Do not edit this page, edit the widget API" message to the summaries |
| 00:17.38 | Legorol | so how do you envision things, how many different types of pages are needed per widget? |
| 00:17.44 | Legorol | we have this summary page of yours, |
| 00:17.58 | Legorol | one would need a page for XML reference for the widget, |
| 00:18.06 | Legorol | one for tutorial/how-to code with it |
| 00:18.30 | Legorol | does it make sense to have these many separate pages for each widget? i think so |
| 00:18.36 | Iriel | Not including the XML I see 2 pages per widget, and 2 'synopsis' pages for all widgets (one for the methods, one for the handlers), then a page per method, and a page per handler |
| 00:19.10 | Iriel | Of those, the summary is generated from the synopses, more or less |
| 00:19.25 | Iriel | and I agree, the XML one likely should be a separate page |
| 00:19.39 | Legorol | so the 2 pages per widget, what would they be? |
| 00:19.58 | Legorol | one is your summary page, the other is the how-to page? |
| 00:20.28 | Legorol | A how-to page would tie together the XML, methods and anything else pertinent, in my opinion |
| 00:21.48 | Iriel | One is the summary I was just asking about |
| 00:21.58 | Iriel | and the other is the existing UIOBJECT one, like you did for GameTooltip |
| 00:24.15 | Legorol | right, that's what i head in mind too |
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| 00:39.43 | MentalPower | question, is GameTooltip:AddFontStrings(leftstring, rightstring) supposed to be the fixie dust for dynamically generated tooltips? |
| 00:40.49 | cladhaire | Anyone have a link to wowscite? |
| 00:40.57 | cladhaire | the only one I have is teh broken. |
| 00:42.22 | MentalPower | wowscite? |
| 00:42.40 | cladhaire | Yeah, its a SCITE with lua 5.0.2 and most of the wow API in calltips |
| 00:42.49 | cladhaire | i just can't find the install |
| 00:46.43 | Iriel | MentalPower : That's my understanding, yes |
| 00:47.20 | MentalPower | I'd test it but alas the PTR queue is 6k people big |
| 00:52.53 | Kirkburn | Meesa going to bedsa! |
| 00:53.12 | Kirkburn | Night night |
| 01:01.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 01:07.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 01:21.37 | Miravlix | local tourist = GloryLib:GetInstance("1.0")` Can't I just do GetNewestInstance? |
| 01:22.00 | Iriel | You always want to specify the appropriate MAJOR version |
| 01:22.08 | Miravlix | No. :) |
| 01:22.09 | Iriel | in case there's a divergent branch installed |
| 01:22.17 | Miravlix | But then we look at libraries differently. |
| 01:22.17 | Iriel | It'll pick the best MINOR version for that MAJOR version |
| 01:23.10 | Iriel | For anyone who cares: http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API_New |
| 01:23.19 | Iriel | A provisional 1.11 widget API |
| 01:23.36 | Iriel | All the methods are there, but I haven't done all of the comments or arg lists yet |
| 01:23.44 | Wobin_ | The minor versions are ones that have no difference in functionality, ie, any code written for a certain major version will work with all minor versions of that library. A major version change may mean that the functionality is different, ie different API or something |
| 01:24.07 | Wobin_ | So if you use GetNewestInstance, you may be trying to access an API that is no longer existant |
| 01:24.07 | Miravlix | Wobin_: My libraries work whatever it's version 1.0 or version 100.0 |
| 01:24.25 | Iriel | Miravlix : Because you'd change your library's name if you changed its functionality |
| 01:24.29 | Miravlix | The problem is if a addon written for version 100.0 gets on a version 1.0 |
| 01:24.30 | Wobin_ | You must have a lot of backward compatibility |
| 01:24.31 | Iriel | Miravlix : Our system is slightly different |
| 01:25.09 | Miravlix | I'm not even allowed to use version 2.x |
| 01:25.41 | Miravlix | Thats a bit extream planning to break compatibility ahead of time? |
| 01:25.53 | Wobin_ | Well, not really |
| 01:25.56 | cladhaire | No, not at all |
| 01:26.09 | Wobin_ | if a addon uses version 1, since it's embedded, it will always use version 1 |
| 01:26.24 | Wobin_ | if another addon has version 2, then there will be two instances in memory, 1 and 2 |
| 01:26.33 | Miravlix | And I don't use new names, I just write well designed code that can upgrade without breaking backwards compatibility. :p |
| 01:26.53 | Tain | There's so much subjective-ness in that statement I don't know where to begin. :) |
| 01:26.55 | Iriel | This isn't about breaking backwards compatibility via carelessness |
| 01:27.00 | Wobin_ | Easy enough if you're the only coder =) |
| 01:27.02 | Iriel | It's about deliberately forking a library |
| 01:27.06 | Miravlix | Simple thing like function(x, y) to make new functionality I can simply do function(x, y, z) |
| 01:27.36 | cladhaire | ... |
| 01:28.30 | cladhaire | Its not that simple at all |
| 01:28.51 | Miravlix | Cosmos is developed by quite a few people and use backwards compatibility design |
| 01:29.17 | Wobin_ | so version 10000 will have function(x,y,z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g)? |
| 01:29.17 | cladhaire | Yes, we know that. |
| 01:29.18 | Corrodias | has cosmos changed since i quit to be more than a package of Khaos + a bunch of other addons? |
| 01:29.44 | Tain | Corrodias: It also eats babies |
| 01:30.09 | Miravlix | Cosmos has always been a set of libraries, with some addons added on. |
| 01:30.33 | Miravlix | A GUI development framework or some sutch. |
| 01:31.37 | cladhaire | Miravlix: You can't concieve any circumstance where you would make a change to a libraries functionality that wouldn't be backwards compatable? |
| 01:31.38 | Miravlix | Well, not always offcourse, it started way back as a Addon Bundle, then the framework got developed over time. |
| 01:32.17 | Miravlix | I've used the same C libraries for 20+ years with minimal changes |
| 01:32.25 | cladhaire | That |
| 01:32.28 | cladhaire | 'that's not what I asked. |
| 01:32.52 | Iriel | To cladhaire's question -- I'm seeing your dismissal of our system as a failure of imagination |
| 01:32.57 | Miravlix | So no, I do not see a need for developing libraries that isn't backwards compatible |
| 01:33.49 | Wobin_ | But the point is that they're not 'not backwards compatible' |
| 01:34.10 | Miravlix | Then why can't I do GetNewestInstance()? |
| 01:34.13 | Wobin_ | They just don't require backwards compatability to function |
| 01:34.14 | cladhaire | because |
| 01:34.15 | cladhaire | whats new? |
| 01:34.19 | cladhaire | define new |
| 01:34.32 | Miravlix | I'm only allowed to use 1.x or 2.x not x.x |
| 01:34.46 | Iriel | You're getting hung up on the choice of version number |
| 01:34.50 | cladhaire | completely |
| 01:34.50 | Wobin_ | Cause there's no point in using a library for which code has not been written |
| 01:34.57 | Iriel | The major version could be "spam and eggs" |
| 01:35.32 | cladhaire | Say I take Seahooks, and extend it |
| 01:35.32 | Iriel | or "NewCoke" |
| 01:35.32 | Tain | mmmm eggs |
| 01:35.32 | cladhaire | to add things not there. |
| 01:35.33 | Wobin_ | NewCoke =( |
| 01:35.33 | cladhaire | now.. you have to eitehr accept that into your branch and be magically backwards compatable. |
| 01:35.33 | cladhaire | or I have to fork it |
| 01:35.33 | Wobin_ | New coke makes me a sad panda |
| 01:35.33 | Tain | Ok if something has a version number of NewCoke I'm NOT using it. |
| 01:35.33 | cladhaire | if I fork it.. how to I makethem co-exist? |
| 01:35.33 | cladhaire | what if other people want to use my library |
| 01:35.34 | cladhaire | you're being far to narrow sighted. |
| 01:35.47 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 01:35.47 | Tain | No one wants to use your smelly library, cladhaire! |
| 01:36.00 | Iriel | What if I want to **RELEASE** an experimental version of my code to a whole bunch of people who ALSO need to use the stable version for other addons? |
| 01:36.02 | Miravlix | I don't have a problem with including your changes in the library. |
| 01:36.19 | Wobin_ | Wouldn't that bloat the library though? |
| 01:36.26 | Iriel | What if cladhaire's changes include appending "bork bork bork" to every message? |
| 01:36.40 | Tain | I'd run that library. |
| 01:36.43 | cladhaire | =) |
| 01:36.45 | Wobin_ | Swedish Chefs around the world would rejoice |
| 01:36.49 | Miravlix | Thats we use a table structure for, so you can split of parts of the library |
| 01:37.05 | Miravlix | Sea.wow.utils (SeaHooks) Sea.wow.spellbook (SeaSpellbook) |
| 01:37.05 | Wobin_ | Tain: What will it do? |
| 01:37.06 | cladhaire | Explain what you mean |
| 01:37.22 | cladhaire | No, I'm editing Sea.wow.utils and making every mesage print BorkBorkBork |
| 01:37.22 | Miravlix | Together it's Sea, stand alone, it's SeaHooks, SeaSpellbook |
| 01:37.24 | Corrodias | you cannot bloat a library! |
| 01:37.28 | Iriel | You keep thinking 'extend' when we keep talking about 'change' |
| 01:37.30 | cladhaire | not making a new table. |
| 01:38.03 | Wobin_ | Corrodias: It depends on if you have enough whale blubber... |
| 01:38.08 | Iriel | Let's take a damage tracking library for an example |
| 01:38.09 | Miravlix | Extend and embrace |
| 01:38.38 | Iriel | It's quite possible that someone would disagree with the math used in the 'main' version of one, but want to use much of the same infrastructure |
| 01:38.50 | Iriel | They could fork the library and replace all of the calculations with some they feel are more accurate |
| 01:39.11 | Iriel | With your system, you'd have to rename the 'new' version if it was to coexist with the old |
| 01:39.13 | Tain | 7 bork 8 equals thirteen |
| 01:39.18 | cladhaire | hahahahaha |
| 01:39.18 | Miravlix | So it's a simpler way to avoid renaming? |
| 01:39.21 | Iriel | In ours, it just has a separate major version number |
| 01:39.41 | Iriel | It's a way of saying "We fully expect branches to occur, and built them in from the start" |
| 01:39.48 | cladhaire | and adding yet another table to the Sea library doesn't make sense in that situation |
| 01:39.48 | Tain | You're not avoiding renaming, there's no reason to rename in the first place. |
| 01:39.55 | Iriel | In keeping with the philosophy of "never, ever, change the stub" |
| 01:40.28 | cladhaire | The deal is, re-use code when you can, but if you have a specific change that you expect you should be able to use it. |
| 01:41.27 | Miravlix | It's reused on disk, but not in memory, since it will have multiple full versions |
| 01:41.49 | cladhaire | No |
| 01:41.50 | Tain | That... doesn't make any sense. |
| 01:41.51 | cladhaire | not true at all |
| 01:42.06 | cladhaire | AceHook 1.3 only exists ONCE in the system |
| 01:42.08 | cladhaire | ever |
| 01:42.35 | Miravlix | Yes, but AceHook-Lix 1.3 and Acehook 1.3 exist |
| 01:42.49 | cladhaire | yeah.. cause they're completely different versions. |
| 01:42.55 | cladhaire | potentially |
| 01:43.05 | Miravlix | I changed one function to return a different calculation |
| 01:43.08 | Miravlix | That was our example |
| 01:43.18 | cladhaire | k |
| 01:43.28 | cladhaire | and? |
| 01:43.35 | cladhaire | how do you resolve that in the magical mystical cosmos? |
| 01:44.39 | Miravlix | Like we do with the Blizzard API, hook and replace? |
| 01:44.47 | cladhaire | oh jesus |
| 01:45.04 | Tain | Help me Jesus help me clean my wounds. |
| 01:45.16 | cladhaire | you would hook your own function to change the functionality? |
| 01:45.24 | Wobin_ | (hm, I used to know the latin for that...) |
| 01:46.16 | Tain | Hook a function from .. hmm... you know I couldn't even make that up trying to be funny. |
| 01:46.21 | Miravlix | Hook it, include your own function you call, whatever. |
| 01:46.37 | Miravlix | Depends on what your trying to do |
| 01:46.54 | cladhaire | And then you add the runtime overhead of a function call every single time you want to do anything |
| 01:46.57 | Miravlix | If your trying to make all addons use your different math, then hook sounds like a good idea. |
| 01:46.58 | cladhaire | which, is bad. |
| 01:47.09 | cladhaire | Miravlix: The goal isn't to make ALL addons use yoru math, just yours. |
| 01:47.12 | cladhaire | that's the whole point. |
| 01:47.31 | Miravlix | So it's better to clone a library, than replace what you change? |
| 01:48.16 | cladhaire | You're refusing to exist outside of Cosmos, and understand that there are reasons people would want to do things like this. |
| 01:48.22 | cladhaire | When it comes down to it.. it doesn't happen-- we dont change majorversinos |
| 01:48.24 | cladhaire | but we CAN. |
| 01:48.35 | Miravlix | Hmm, wouldn't it be possible to use your library model that creates and reuse code? |
| 01:48.40 | cladhaire | and our minor versions always update properly and the newest version is always made available to us. |
| 01:48.53 | Miravlix | It creates the versio branches, either re-using a function or replacing it with a new? |
| 01:48.54 | cladhaire | Miravlix: I dont understand that last question |
| 01:49.22 | Miravlix | Since everything is referances you could avoid cloning |
| 01:49.22 | cladhaire | In theory, it could be added to the stub-- but there's frankly no point |
| 01:50.13 | cladhaire | Yes, that would be an improvement |
| 01:50.30 | cladhaire | But the fact of the matter is, what we have is already leaps and bounds ahead of even the perspective you're coming to the table with. |
| 01:50.38 | cladhaire | as far as flexibility |
| 01:51.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:51.25 | Miravlix | I was just suggesting a improvment, just took a while before you got it. |
| 01:51.41 | cladhaire | Yes, |
| 01:51.46 | cladhaire | what about the improvements we've suggested to you? |
| 01:51.49 | Iriel | we dont have the capabilities to implement reliable cloning though |
| 01:51.55 | cladhaire | that you've casually dismissed without any discussion? |
| 01:52.11 | Corrodias | cloning? man, WoW technology has come a long way in a few months. :o |
| 01:52.11 | cladhaire | Iriel: It would be hacky at best, and there's no point-- due to the extremely low overhead of a function definition |
| 01:52.28 | cladhaire | Corrodias: You should check out DollyLib =) |
| 01:52.32 | Corrodias | lol |
| 01:52.52 | Iriel | Well, my problem with it is that it'd be too easy to break something. One of the purposes of the major version syste, is that you just have to pick major versions nobody else would |
| 01:52.53 | Miravlix | We have clone libs now, but the cloning isn't perfect. |
| 01:52.58 | Miravlix | It has mutations |
| 01:53.03 | Corrodias | clone me some troll chicks, eh? |
| 01:53.22 | Iriel | as soon as you want to try doing a mutation then unless you also carried the original with you, you'd have to somehow determine that the clone wasn't different from the original |
| 01:53.30 | Miravlix | The idea was not to clone... |
| 01:54.04 | Iriel | Sorry, when I say 'clone' I mean 'clone references and replace only changed functions' |
| 01:54.18 | cladhaire | Miravlix: Theres no guaranteed way to do that. What we have works 100% of the time, and re-uses as much code as possible while still having the correct level of confidence. |
| 01:54.30 | Miravlix | Setting up setMutation("functioncallname") |
| 01:55.39 | Wobin_ | As long as you don't feed it after midnight |
| 01:55.45 | Wobin_ | Or get it wet |
| 01:59.23 | Tain | After midnight we're gonna let it all hang out. |
| 01:59.38 | cladhaire | I don't plan to |
| 01:59.42 | cladhaire | I'm hopefully in bed at that point |
| 01:59.49 | Corrodias | what a silly thing, don't feed it "after midnight" |
| 01:59.54 | cladhaire | --[[ Begin Hijack ]]-- |
| 02:00.12 | Wobin_ | Midnight, not a sound from the pavement |
| 02:00.13 | Tain | I could be in bed. Never can tell. |
| 02:00.15 | cladhaire | Miravlix: This is more a personal criticism than professional with regards to the code we write, but I hope you realize you come across as pretending that you're better than everyone else, and that your knowledge is immediately more credible than anyone elses. |
| 02:00.36 | cladhaire | Miravlix: I have not seen you for one moment in this entire channel express a second of humility or deference to other people who have far more experience than you have, when they exist. I may come across as a dick, but at least I admit when I'm wrong and don't live in a glass castle. |
| 02:00.40 | cladhaire | --[[ End Hijack ]]-- |
| 02:00.41 | cladhaire | SOrry. |
| 02:00.47 | cladhaire | about the spam, not the content |
| 02:01.38 | Miravlix | I find that funny, considering how I continue to get attacked for having a different opinion here. |
| 02:02.01 | Miravlix | Because I look at libraries differently you get all upset. |
| 02:02.04 | cladhaire | You don't think you have a different opinion.. You think your way is the only way and come across like we're doing something wrong. |
| 02:02.09 | Miravlix | And claim I'm wrong |
| 02:02.21 | cladhaire | No one here claimed you were wrong (at least I didnt) |
| 02:02.38 | Miravlix | You have many times attacked my point of view. |
| 02:02.53 | cladhaire | No, I've attacked the fact that you're NEVER willing to discuss or comprimise. |
| 02:03.00 | cladhaire | I can't have an intelligent conversatino with you |
| 02:03.08 | cladhaire | Its always an argument, or talking to a brick wall. |
| 02:03.16 | ckknight_ | you know what this reminds me of? |
| 02:03.18 | cladhaire | You come across that the cosmos way is the only way, and its infallible. |
| 02:03.19 | ckknight_ | chocolate. |
| 02:03.26 | Wobin_ | Mmm. Chocolate |
| 02:03.33 | ckknight_ | yes, delicious chocolate |
| 02:03.39 | End | This reminds me of chocolate too. |
| 02:03.41 | ckknight_ | I've had some good times with that |
| 02:03.42 | netcurse | should live in swiss then |
| 02:03.49 | cladhaire | I love the cosmos devs, dont have a single issue with any one of you... and I've worked with Karl on a bunch of things, and always been quite successful. |
| 02:04.07 | cladhaire | I took changes of his into AceHooks, and he took ideas of mine into SeaHooks. |
| 02:04.08 | ckknight_ | I'm gonna go get a chocolate chip cookie |
| 02:04.13 | Wobin_ | I dunno. British chocolate isn't too bad |
| 02:04.25 | Wobin_ | Cadbury's for example |
| 02:04.39 | ckknight_ | oh man |
| 02:04.39 | netcurse | i lived near nestle factory some month ago .P |
| 02:04.42 | ckknight_ | Cadbury's are great. |
| 02:04.47 | Miravlix | Well, to me several of you established names has given me a tongue lashing several times, because I don't happend to do things your way |
| 02:05.09 | Tain | Actually that's a misunderstanding of the reason for said interpreted "tongue lashing." |
| 02:05.14 | cladhaire | You are welcome to do things however you want.. people typically won't tell you they're wrong.. but accepting constructive criticism goes a LONG WAY |
| 02:05.33 | Miravlix | That has offcourse pushed me into a defensive mode, because I don't feel there is something wrong with my point of view. |
| 02:05.58 | cladhaire | rather than blindly defend things without considering another coding style or alternative. Collaboration is what makes this community strong-- and I dont feel you've collaborated with anyone in this channel.. and thats unfortunate because you have a novel perspective to bring to the table. |
| 02:06.21 | cladhaire | But we can't all come to the table unwilling to even LOOK at anything else-- if I wanted a social chat room I wouldn't be hanging out with a bunch of WoW lua devs =) |
| 02:06.30 | Miravlix | I've developed my skills over 20 years as a programmer, so I admit, I'm prolly very set in my ways, due to having used things for so long. |
| 02:06.35 | Corrodias | yes, compliments make it sound even worse to reject you now |
| 02:06.47 | Miravlix | Doesn't mean I can't learn from others and I do it all the time. |
| 02:06.50 | cladhaire | Miravlix: Your experience is irrelevant, many of us have the same (if not more) level of experience. |
| 02:07.00 | Corrodias | ooh, there's a slip |
| 02:07.14 | Tain | Are you experienced? Or have you ever been experienced? |
| 02:07.17 | Tain | I have. |
| 02:07.18 | ckknight_ | one man's worth of 5 years experience can be another's 15 years |
| 02:07.22 | cladhaire | Miravlix: It just seems like that learning process for other people working with you has been somewhat more painful than the rest of the community. |
| 02:07.22 | ckknight_ | people learn at different rates |
| 02:07.37 | cladhaire | agan, just my opinions. |
| 02:07.40 | ckknight_ | and also if you know 2 or 3 languages vs. 10 or 15 makes a difference as well |
| 02:08.04 | Tain | Ah, I don't know about that. I'm more of the opinion that technique is more important to know than languages. |
| 02:08.06 | Corrodias | saying they're irrelevant is hardly as condescending a tone as the rest of that monologue was |
| 02:08.07 | cladhaire | ckknight: is a perfect example.. we're entirely different.. and we disagree and argue |
| 02:08.09 | cladhaire | but we learn from each other |
| 02:08.11 | cladhaire | and we BOTH know that. |
| 02:08.13 | ckknight | yea |
| 02:08.26 | ckknight | I mean, cladhaire smells funny, but that doesn't mean I won't take his opinion into consideration |
| 02:08.32 | ckknight | jk ;-) |
| 02:08.53 | ckknight | but he's right, we don't agree on all issues |
| 02:09.03 | ckknight | but I still show him respect |
| 02:09.07 | Miravlix | That jk was bad, your just kidding about taking his opinion into consideration. :) |
| 02:09.23 | ckknight | yea, it was supposed to make you scratch your head |
| 02:09.26 | cladhaire | I don't want to change you, but I think the community can be more productive for both of us. |
| 02:09.29 | Wobin_ | ckknight does, and has shown to, despite what he jokes about =P |
| 02:09.31 | Tain | I show clad mad props yo |
| 02:09.47 | cladhaire | This conversatino is the perfect example of that, unfortunately |
| 02:09.57 | cladhaire | err rather, the previous one actually |
| 02:10.06 | ckknight | chocotastic? |
| 02:10.11 | ckknight | my cookie's gone *sniff* |
| 02:10.48 | Tain | Is the cookie gone? Or is it you who are gone from the cookie? |
| 02:11.13 | ckknight | no |
| 02:11.16 | ckknight | it is inside me. |
| 02:11.43 | Corrodias | here's a good example of why english needs more specific words for different levels of desire. |
| 02:12.16 | Corrodias | cladhaire saying that he doesn't want to change Miravlix is clearly not true on one level, though it may be on another. |
| 02:12.52 | ckknight | word of the day: pants-creaming-tacular |
| 02:12.56 | Wobin_ | Does he say that? |
| 02:12.56 | ckknight | discuss. |
| 02:13.01 | cladhaire | Corrodias: Correct, I dont want to change the way Miravlix codes, but rather the way Miravlix interacts with this community.. I feel teh past interactions have been less than stellar, far too confrontational and a detriment at some times. |
| 02:13.42 | Miravlix | And I feel, I recevied a very aggressive response from several people due to having a different opinion. |
| 02:13.54 | Corrodias | i wish for different words for wanting something in the current context and wanting something in the absence of certain factors |
| 02:14.13 | cladhaire | Miravlix: Could peopel approach you better, yes.. and maybe we'll all make a better effort to do that. |
| 02:14.16 | Corrodias | people are aggressive about their opinions. that's what makes them opinions. |
| 02:14.34 | cladhaire | Miravlix: But perhaps approaching things from the defensive point of view from here on out isn't the best way to go. |
| 02:14.34 | Corrodias | if they expressed them as possibilities with certain benefits, they would not be called opinions at all. |
| 02:15.15 | Corrodias | i'm going to stop trying to hijack the conversation |
| 02:15.16 | Cairenn | I would certainly appreciate seeing more respect given all round |
| 02:15.40 | cladhaire | Miravlix: I have myself been confrontational, and that has been based on our previous interactinos-- about the same subject as a matter of fact. |
| 02:15.52 | cladhaire | Miravlix: And I'm willing to do anything possible to behave better in that regard. |
| 02:19.19 | ckknight | I try to be helpful before I become judgmental, though sometimes my lack of tact while doing so has gotten me into issues |
| 02:20.46 | ckknight | ~emulate cookie monster |
| 02:20.53 | purl | "C" is for cookie, that's good enough for me. Oh....cookie,cookie,cookie starts with "C". |
| 02:25.11 | Wobin_ | Hm, it'd be easier for me to physically rotate a texture before using it (graphically) than trying to do so in lua? |
| 02:25.22 | Iriel | It depends on the texture |
| 02:25.35 | Iriel | Texture rotation with SetTexCoords is pretty easy if it's got a transparent border |
| 02:25.53 | Iriel | See http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/ and look for TextureSpinTest |
| 02:26.09 | Wobin_ | Cool, thankee, Iriel |
| 02:26.40 | Iriel | Actually, it's not in random, it's just in downloads |
| 02:26.47 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/TextureSpinTest-0.1-10900.zip |
| 02:26.55 | Wobin_ | ta |
| 02:34.08 | Miravlix | Hmm, Googles new Nootebook seems nice |
| 02:34.30 | Wobin_ | What's it do? |
| 02:34.52 | ckknight | I haven't heard of it |
| 02:36.33 | Tain | I've just started using it |
| 02:36.37 | Tain | I think I'll really like it. |
| 02:36.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Thiana (n=Alisandr@c-24-147-41-254.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 02:37.59 | ckknight | http://www.google.com/notebook |
| 02:38.34 | ckknight | aw |
| 02:38.39 | ckknight | Opera doesn't work with it |
| 02:38.58 | Wobin_ | What's the defaHm, nice |
| 02:39.09 | Wobin_ | Ahem =P |
| 02:39.14 | Wobin_ | Hm, nice =P |
| 02:39.45 | Wobin_ | Bah. It refuses to recognise Bon Echo as Firefox =P |
| 02:41.06 | Tain | Bon Echo screwed up all my normal Firefox settings on me. |
| 02:41.10 | Tain | and annoyed the hell out of me |
| 02:43.02 | ckknight | what's Bon Echo? |
| 02:43.06 | Wobin_ | FF2 |
| 02:43.12 | ckknight | ah |
| 02:43.12 | Wobin_ | Beta |
| 02:43.18 | Corrodias | try again without an acronym? :( |
| 02:43.23 | Wobin_ | Sorry, Firefox |
| 02:43.29 | Tain | FireFox version 2 milestone 2 |
| 03:07.22 | Corrodias | HOWDY HO NEIGHBOR |
| 03:08.38 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 03:08.46 | End | mooooooooooooooooo. |
| 03:08.51 | AnduinLothar | compilers making my head hurt |
| 03:09.39 | AnduinLothar | type checking.... passing all the silly named regrences through liek 5 functions by return statements.. |
| 03:09.44 | Tem | Corrodias: Hidey Ho |
| 03:10.23 | AnduinLothar | and for some reason it reports the next line number if it errors near the end of the line... haven't figured that one out yet.. |
| 03:10.26 | Wobin_ | Iriel: *whimper* matrix maths. |
| 03:11.39 | Wobin_ | er. scratch that comment =P |
| 03:21.21 | ckknight | moo. |
| 03:21.43 | ckknight | Wobin_, matrix math is fun! |
| 03:22.01 | Wobin_ | alas =) |
| 03:22.09 | Wobin_ | Hey, is there any way to rotate text as well? |
| 03:22.49 | ckknight | not that I know of |
| 03:22.58 | ckknight | if there is, I'll have to have vertical FuBars. |
| 03:23.02 | Tain | Turn your head. |
| 03:23.28 | MentalPower | wohoo! I crashed WoW! |
| 03:23.38 | ckknight | MentalPower, grats |
| 03:23.42 | Cairenn | MentalPower: did you get my message the other night? |
| 03:23.44 | ckknight | you gain 5 points |
| 03:23.57 | MentalPower | Cairenn: err... I don't think so |
| 03:24.04 | Cairenn | he had forgotten about it, he's subsequently been reminded ;) |
| 03:24.04 | MentalPower | message where, here? |
| 03:24.11 | MentalPower | oh, thanks :) |
| 03:24.24 | Cairenn | np |
| 03:24.29 | MentalPower | *loves Cairenn* |
| 03:25.00 | ckknight | no! she's mine! |
| 03:31.35 | End | wobbly wooogle whoooala |
| 03:33.33 | ckknight | ? |
| 03:34.58 | End | if you have to ask, then I'm probably babbling |
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| 04:13.18 | MentalPower | ok, who/where do I tell of a WoW bug? specifically a hard #132 crash (reproducible of course) |
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| 04:17.05 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 04:31.06 | ckknight | MentalPower, file the report deal that pops up |
| 04:31.20 | MentalPower | already did |
| 04:32.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 04:33.53 | ckknight | that's about all you can do |
| 04:34.50 | MentalPower | AnduinLothar: I admire your patience with the person in #CosmosTesters |
| 04:35.45 | AnduinLothar | bout to strangle him |
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| 04:45.50 | ckknight | I'm intrigued... |
| 04:46.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-78-149.onelinkpr.net) |
| 04:47.47 | Cairenn | errrr |
| 04:47.52 | Cairenn | whatever, you know what I mean |
| 04:49.37 | MentalPower_ | lol :) |
| 04:50.16 | MentalPower_ | Iriel: I managed to crash WoW with #132 errors repeadetly trying to make dynamic tooltips bahave |
| 04:50.27 | Iriel | Uh oh 8-( |
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| 04:50.50 | Iriel | Poor error checking in the blizz code? |
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| 04:50.58 | Iriel | Or just something that doesn't quite work right? |
| 04:51.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 04:52.24 | MentalPower_ | dunno |
| 04:52.34 | MentalPower_ | I'll paste the macro that I was using, one sec |
| 04:53.38 | Iriel | Hm, interesting new API functions.. ActionHasRange, IsInInstance |
| 04:53.54 | Tem | action has range? |
| 04:54.05 | Tem | think maybe that's what people are always asking for? |
| 04:55.04 | Iriel | It's just a boolean that says whether the action can be in and out of range, as far as I can tell |
| 04:55.51 | Iriel | I wonder if IsInInstance is player only or if it takes a unit id |
| 05:03.30 | MentalPower_ | Iriel: /script TOOLTIP = CreateFrame("GameTooltip") for i=1, 30 do TOOLTIP:AddFontStrings(TOOLTIP:CreateFontString(), TOOLTIP:CreateFontString()) end TOOLTIP:SetOwner(UIParent, "ANCHOR_TOP") TOOLTIP:SetHyperlink("item:6144:0:0:0") |
| 05:03.50 | MentalPower_ | oh and its a #124 error |
| 05:03.58 | MentalPower_ | ERROR #124 (0x8510007c) Memory Invalid Block |
| 05:04.12 | MentalPower_ | SMem3: Pointer does not refer to a valid allocated block of memory |
| 05:07.35 | Iriel | You may need to give your font strings names, does it work then? |
| 05:08.24 | MentalPower | trying |
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| 05:11.15 | MentalPower | same crash |
| 05:11.20 | MentalPower | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:16.18 | Iriel | Hm, can you post on the US forums? |
| 05:16.54 | MentalPower | sure |
| 05:19.16 | Iriel | Can you post a slouken thread, include the script and the exact error |
| 05:20.40 | MentalPower | ok |
| 05:22.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eats (n=a@dhcp-73-84.tulane.edu) |
| 05:23.39 | MentalPower | welcome Eats :) |
| 05:24.11 | Eats | hey |
| 05:25.43 | MentalPower | is there a [pre] or [code] tag in BML? |
| 05:29.27 | Iriel | [pre] |
| 05:38.13 | MentalPower | ok, posted |
| 05:39.28 | MentalPower | however, I'm trying to post a #132 error that I also got, but its giving me a "Body Invalid" error |
| 05:39.28 | MentalPower | any ideas? |
| 05:42.41 | Cairenn | anyone have any ideas for this guy? http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4898 |
| 05:43.42 | Cairenn | also posted here, with the one idea I had already shot down, and a tad more detail: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=381975&p=1&tmp=1#post381975 |
| 05:44.52 | MentalPower | that is positively wierd |
| 05:45.06 | Cairenn | your bug or his? |
| 05:45.33 | MentalPower | at first thought it was the standard "Load out of date AddOns" thing, but if the .lua's are getting deleted I'm at a loss |
| 05:45.35 | MentalPower | his |
| 05:45.41 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 05:45.57 | Cairenn | and it isn't missing dependencies, that was the idea I floated |
| 05:46.04 | haste | sounds like the HD is acting up :o |
| 05:46.26 | Cairenn | sounds flakier than just that |
| 05:48.31 | Cairenn | somehow something has gotten set to read-only? |
| 05:48.38 | MentalPower | perhaps |
| 05:48.53 | MentalPower | anyways, I'm out |
| 05:48.56 | MentalPower | gnight |
| 05:49.46 | Cairenn | night MentalPower, sweet dreams |
| 05:50.09 | MentalPower | thanks Cair, same to you :) |
| 05:52.23 | Tem|Sleep | night guys |
| 05:52.35 | Cairenn | night Tem|Sleep, sweet dreams |
| 05:52.48 | Tem|Sleep | I hope I remember my dreams tonight |
| 05:52.58 | Tem|Sleep | since I never do |
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| 06:36.39 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 06:38.07 | ckknight | baa |
| 06:40.27 | [MoonWolf] | woof |
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| 06:45.02 | Cairenn | night all |
| 06:45.28 | [MoonWolf] | night |
| 06:59.01 | Iriel | night all |
| 06:59.10 | Elkano | night Iriel |
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| 07:28.43 | Crispix | Can anyone perhaps help me? |
| 07:29.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano^wtf (i=Elkano@client0324.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:29.37 | Crispix | I know theres an addon out there to compare gear you currently have, to gear your thinking about buying in the AH, but I Can't seem to find it.. I forgot where I saw it..:( |
| 07:29.39 | AnduinLothar | damn it.. i watched the last ep of season 9... now I actually have to WAIT to see what happens... :'( |
| 07:29.47 | AnduinLothar | EquipCompare |
| 07:30.10 | Industrial | Equipcompare <3 |
| 07:30.17 | Industrial | EquipCompare <3 |
| 07:30.26 | Crispix | http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-308-1-equipcompare.html <-- ? |
| 07:30.29 | AnduinLothar | ya, it's sad Flisher went awal |
| 07:30.41 | Elkano^wtf | hasn't the AH implemented that anyways? |
| 07:31.01 | AnduinLothar | lol, no |
| 07:31.10 | Elkano^wtf | afair ah and merchant use the shopping tooltips |
| 07:31.17 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 07:31.17 | Crispix | nupe.. I just got out of game, and its pretty lame that its not |
| 07:31.24 | AnduinLothar | that's EC |
| 07:32.35 | Crispix | Which one are you recommending Anduin? |
| 07:32.41 | Elkano^wtf | have a look at [09:03] <[MoonWolf]> that would be food. |
| 07:32.41 | Elkano^wtf | [09:03] <[MoonWolf]> good* |
| 07:32.50 | Elkano^wtf | ... |
| 07:32.53 | Elkano^wtf | damn c&p.. |
| 07:32.54 | Elkano^wtf | [09:03] <[MoonWolf]> that would be food. |
| 07:32.54 | Elkano^wtf | [09:03] <[MoonWolf]> good* |
| 07:32.58 | AnduinLothar | EC |
| 07:33.05 | Elkano^wtf | AuctionFrameItem_OnEnter |
| 07:33.23 | AnduinLothar | not sure where the latest one is. someone picked it up and we've been keeping it functioning in cosmos |
| 07:33.26 | Elkano^wtf | there IS code to compare in the original files |
| 07:33.38 | AnduinLothar | so my titan stopped working when 1.10 came around and i never bothered to update.. I don't really miss it, but I'd like to keep compat with wardrobe alive, maybe add fubar... suggestions on which versions to use? |
| 07:34.31 | AnduinLothar | i think i was using one from 1.7 that i had kept hacking to stay kicking. |
| 07:34.45 | AnduinLothar | but i know someone maintains one somewhere.. |
| 07:35.41 | Crispix | Time for bed.. |
| 07:35.45 | Crispix | Nini everyone :) |
| 07:35.46 | AnduinLothar | do i have to go to worldofwar.net for the last? |
| 07:37.31 | AnduinLothar | i see a 2.18, that sound new enough? |
| 07:40.26 | Elkano^wtf | AnduinLothar, wrt item compariosn, here'S a code snippet from the AH code: http://pastebin.com/730646 |
| 07:40.43 | Elkano^wtf | if this isn'T for item comparison, I don't know what it's for... |
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| 07:56.28 | AnduinLothar | is there a workign ColorCycle somewhere? |
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| 07:59.57 | s|loup | hi |
| 08:00.04 | AnduinLothar | yo |
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| 08:02.54 | Elkano | any EU online that could tell me if I'm the only one that can't connect to the login server? |
| 08:04.23 | s|loup | i will ask pls wait |
| 08:07.08 | Elkano | ok, now it worked but half of the servers are down :/ |
| 08:09.39 | s|loup | looks like they get problems for some in germany the login is also down |
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| 08:11.08 | Elkano | ah, blue post: problem known, tech staff working on it |
| 08:17.45 | Elkano | ok, servers back online :) |
| 08:22.23 | Kalroth | I don't know what Blizzard is doing, but all the servers has been running really poorly lately :( |
| 08:22.58 | Industrial | yeah |
| 08:23.04 | Industrial | yesterday i had 5 LD's |
| 08:23.20 | Kalroth | We had to abort C'Thun attempts because people kept going offline |
| 08:31.48 | [MoonWolf] | our premade wsg kept dropping our leader. |
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| 08:54.36 | AnduinLothar | what's the name of that mod that you can do football moved in raid dungous? |
| 08:54.41 | AnduinLothar | dungouns* |
| 08:54.49 | AnduinLothar | with class icons.. |
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| 10:16.43 | Wobin_ | Can't remember offhand, but I -think- it was on ui.worldofwar? |
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| 11:41.18 | Kirkburn | Now _this_ is how to kill Ragnaros :D http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9024435764919244981 |
| 11:43.15 | Kalroth | the 35 mage one? :p |
| 11:44.05 | Corrodias | 33, but otherwise, yes |
| 11:50.10 | [MoonWolf] | why are they playing firestarter when they are clearly ice mages ? |
| 11:53.33 | Maldivia | yeah... |
| 11:53.47 | Maldivia | was thinking the same thing... but damn, Ragnaros is a wuss against 33 mages :) |
| 11:54.00 | Maldivia | well, he's a wuss normally aswell, but anyway :9 |
| 11:59.00 | Corrodias | well. now, i have seen Gungrave. |
| 12:34.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (i=usr1843@80.193.211.68) |
| 12:43.22 | Kaso | How do you exit the lua console,on the stand alone version |
| 12:49.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-78-149.onelinkpr.net) |
| 12:49.21 | krka|work | ctrl-d |
| 12:52.09 | Kaso | stdin:1: invalid control char near `char(4)' :< |
| 12:53.48 | krka|work | odd |
| 12:53.58 | krka|work | never tried the console lua in windows though |
| 12:55.28 | Kaso | is there a way to Reload my code file without reloading lua.exe |
| 12:58.06 | wereHamster | Kaso, taskmanager => kill process |
| 12:58.16 | Kaso | thats what ive been doing, slightly annoying though |
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| 12:59.47 | krka|work | try os.exit(0) |
| 13:00.35 | Kaso | sweet! |
| 13:00.49 | Kaso | worked lovely thank you. |
| 13:03.45 | Maldivia | ctrl-c works fine :9 |
| 13:04.08 | Kaso | hmm, im sure i tried that one |
| 13:04.23 | Kaso | bah, guess im stupid |
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| 13:48.41 | Maldivia | hmm, anyone have a mirror for the us PTR patch ? |
| 13:52.14 | wereHamster | I can give you the downloader.. |
| 13:52.24 | wereHamster | or the torrent if you want :) |
| 13:53.32 | Maldivia | well, I can't use a torrent here :) |
| 13:54.48 | wereHamster | 100MB is too big to upload to my server .. |
| 13:59.01 | Maldivia | *grumble* |
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| 14:05.17 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
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| 14:08.29 | Maldivia | ok, found a mirror :9 |
| 14:08.45 | Maldivia | and downloading from it with 1400kb/sec :) |
| 14:10.19 | Kaso | I barely get that fast from my LAN DC++ hub let alone off the internet :< |
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| 15:00.31 | Maldivia | *smirk* new fake legendary |
| 15:01.10 | Kalroth | woo |
| 15:01.12 | Kalroth | which?! |
| 15:03.05 | Maldivia | http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=23051 |
| 15:03.32 | Maldivia | I would be sorry for the warrior who uses it, and when it procs, and puts his shield wall on cooldown :9 |
| 15:03.49 | Kaso | thats not even that stupidly statted like the rest, cept the proc ofc |
| 15:04.00 | Maldivia | true |
| 15:04.28 | Kaso | is statted even a word? It is a mystery |
| 15:07.08 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 15:09.49 | Maldivia | hmm... wow... the thaddius fight in naxx... sounds awesome! |
| 15:14.31 | jb55 | uhm |
| 15:14.48 | jb55 | Madivia, it's fake |
| 15:15.00 | jb55 | I added a record to my itemcache and uploaded it :P |
| 15:15.04 | jb55 | alla is so easy to fake out |
| 15:15.17 | jb55 | would be a nice tank weapon though |
| 15:15.56 | Kaso | warriors need less legendaries anyway |
| 15:16.01 | jb55 | we need more! |
| 15:16.09 | jb55 | we need a legendary shield |
| 15:16.46 | Kaso | how about a legenerday warrior tabbard too? |
| 15:17.23 | jb55 | yes! |
| 15:17.28 | jb55 | legendary bracers |
| 15:17.53 | Kaso | attually, in real news, the Argent dawn and Scarlet Crusade tabbard in 1,11 fills me with joy |
| 15:18.26 | Maldivia | jb55: <Maldivia> *smirk* new fake legendary <-- I know :) |
| 15:18.36 | jb55 | hehe |
| 15:18.47 | jb55 | guess the shield wall proc gave it away |
| 15:18.55 | Maldivia | to me anyway :) |
| 15:19.28 | Maldivia | nice try, but I guess I know too much about the game, and it's items and spells to fall for it : |
| 15:20.09 | Maldivia | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7BknBoqGGc -- nerf shamans! (yeah, I know it's luck, the mage is sitting etc :) |
| 15:20.34 | Kaso | people should fake epics in a believeable way and watch the ensuing debate as they guess which neaxx boss its from |
| 15:21.03 | Kaso | of even better give it stats that like 4 classes can use then watcht the OMG X ITEM hillarity ensue |
| 15:21.13 | Maldivia | Make an cloth belt with +45 Spirit, and a +10 mana/5sec :) |
| 15:25.54 | Tem | no int or healing bonus? |
| 15:25.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-189.handshake.de) |
| 15:26.32 | Wobin_ | meh, I'd be happy with the 10mp5 =) |
| 15:36.23 | Kaso | Is there any reason other than the extra effor it'd take to change why so many addons dont use SavedVariablesPerCharacter |
| 15:39.57 | Tain | Effort is a good bar for some people. |
| 15:40.37 | Maldivia | I use it in almost all my addons that saves variables... |
| 15:40.44 | Maldivia | or well, a mix between global and per-chat |
| 15:40.46 | Maldivia | char* |
| 15:41.34 | Maldivia | (and ok, I need to get away, I laughed a bit when I read char*, as a correction for chat) |
| 15:43.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:44.15 | End-sleep | To copy variables between characters you must copy out of game, and some AddOns already have an interface to copy between chars in game |
| 15:44.30 | End | so they can't switch |
| 15:44.48 | Kaso | true |
| 15:45.20 | End | I always forget to copy settings over until I'm in-game anyways, logging out is annoying |
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| 16:33.05 | Kaso | does the guy who owns ui.worldofwar come here ever? |
| 16:41.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
| 16:44.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:44.32 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 16:45.53 | grimman | That'd be Rush I think... |
| 16:47.56 | grimman | You could leave a comment in the ui.wownet shout box, I think he reads that quite alot. But I don't think I've ever seen him here... not that I've been around much. |
| 16:48.06 | grimman | Anyway, gotta go. /afk |
| 16:51.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@85.24.45.37) |
| 16:51.23 | Kaso | ty for the info |
| 16:52.33 | Tem | Cide: you around? |
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| 17:01.10 | Cide | Tem: yup |
| 17:01.28 | Tem | I have a suggestion for how CT_RA should handle /readycheck |
| 17:01.56 | Cide | shoot, I'm still debating what to do :) |
| 17:02.36 | Tem | since the event system doesn't send a "READY" event when you click ready (it does send a NOT READY event) have CTRA users also send a "READY" over the channel |
| 17:02.43 | Maldivia | Iriel: have you started your "actual API changes" list yet ? |
| 17:03.02 | Cide | well |
| 17:03.13 | Cide | what bothers me the most is that only the raid leader can call one |
| 17:03.14 | Tem | so you can mark people ready/not ready as they respond to the prompt |
| 17:03.23 | Tem | yeah, I'm not completely cool with that either |
| 17:03.38 | Tem | I frequently do the readychecks, but I'm *never* the RL |
| 17:04.10 | Cide | pretty much |
| 17:04.24 | Tem | I'm gonna make a post about it |
| 17:04.35 | Cide | same thing goes with the targets |
| 17:04.43 | Tem | anyone can set those |
| 17:04.55 | Cide | oh :) I was just gonna say, I haven't verified that though |
| 17:04.59 | Tem | (where "anyone" is a raid officer) |
| 17:05.02 | Kaso | can't you make it so non-raid leaders with CTRA can start a readycheck via the raidleader |
| 17:05.12 | Cide | Kaso: yes, but that's a very annoying way to do it |
| 17:05.18 | Tem | indeed |
| 17:06.36 | Kaso | I does seem odd blizzard's one doesnt allow promoted to do it |
| 17:07.55 | Cide | if they "fix" that, then I can mostly get around by changing the annoying sound it uses :P |
| 17:08.29 | Maldivia | woot... |
| 17:08.36 | Cide | Tem: hmm, you said that a "NOT READY" event is sent - is that the second they press it? |
| 17:08.48 | Maldivia | texture, application, type = UnitDebuff(unit, index) |
| 17:08.54 | Tem | Cide, yes |
| 17:08.59 | Maldivia | no more tooltip scanning for finding the type |
| 17:09.06 | Cide | yeah, saw that Maldivia |
| 17:09.09 | Cide | that's nice |
| 17:09.18 | Cide | Tem: ah, good |
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| 17:10.35 | Tem | Cide: yeah it's a CHAT_MSG_SYSTEM |
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| 17:14.47 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by irc.freenode.net |
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| 17:15.53 | Maldivia | hmm, there should be an IQ test or something, before people can log on to the test servers... |
| 17:16.41 | wereHamster | Maldivia, yay for the new UnitBuff() return value :) |
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| 17:17.26 | Maldivia | yeah, noticed the new API function GetPlayerBuffDispelType - so figured I'd test if UnitDebuff returned it - otherwise request it :) |
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| 17:20.14 | wereHamster | what does GetPlayerBuffDispelType() do? |
| 17:20.46 | Miravlix | It gets player buff display type and returns it to you |
| 17:20.53 | Maldivia | returns "Magic", "Curse", "Poison" or "Disease", depending on what type of debuff it is |
| 17:21.16 | Cide- | localized or not? |
| 17:21.27 | Tem | hopefully not |
| 17:21.33 | Miravlix | Oh, one less thing to SetBuff |
| 17:21.37 | Maldivia | not localized |
| 17:21.42 | Cide- | woot |
| 17:21.52 | wereHamster | why not just add an additional return value from PlayerBuff() |
| 17:22.13 | Maldivia | or well, the strings are hardcoded in BuffFrame.lua, so doubt they are localized |
| 17:22.34 | Miravlix | GlobalStrings.lua is localized, so why not BuffFrame.lua? |
| 17:22.50 | Maldivia | wereHamster: well, because there are seperate function for texture, application etc for PlayerBuffs |
| 17:23.06 | Maldivia | because GlobalStrings.lua is auto-generated, BuffFrame.lua is not |
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| 17:40.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot2 (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 17:42.57 | Qzot2 | I'm thinking of an addon that redirects output sent to the chat frame to party/guild chat for the duraction of an included /command. Has something like this been written already? |
| 17:43.09 | Qzot2 | Example: /2party /sl list |
| 17:43.35 | Qzot2 | ...would do a /sl list, intercept the output, and re-send it to the party channel. |
| 17:48.36 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 17:52.08 | Miravlix | Problem is you would intercept everything send to chat |
| 17:52.26 | Miravlix | It can't guarentee it will only be the /sl list |
| 17:53.22 | Miravlix | You can narrow it down with /system2party /sl list but then the user has to know what channel the output of a command goes to |
| 17:59.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:59.10 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 17:59.25 | Iriel | Maldivia : I started collecting my notes for it, but I haven't posted it yet |
| 17:59.29 | Iriel | Maldivia : Probably tonight |
| 18:00.07 | Maldivia | Iriel: UnitDebuff now returns debuffDispelType aswell ("Magic", "Curse", "Disease", "Poison" or nil) |
| 18:01.27 | Maldivia | there are actually a lot of new API functions this patch |
| 18:03.32 | Iriel | Yeah, I diffed the API lists |
| 18:03.33 | krka | hm... i wonder if this 95 line limit applies to all editboxes |
| 18:03.38 | krka | or if this one is special |
| 18:03.46 | Iriel | There's a bunch of unmentioned Widget changes too |
| 18:04.24 | Iriel | They're all here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API_New |
| 18:04.30 | Maldivia | was the "clampedToScreen" xml attribute codumented ? |
| 18:04.36 | krka | probably a scrollframe bug... hm |
| 18:05.16 | Iriel | Texture:SetTexCoordModifiesRect for example |
| 18:05.38 | Iriel | Maldivia : The API call to do that was documented, we rarely if ever get told about corresponding XML changes |
| 18:05.46 | Maldivia | yeah, true |
| 18:05.58 | Maldivia | hmm, SetTExCoordModifiesRect sounds fun |
| 18:08.48 | krka | Iriel, do you have any guess as to why my editbox gets rendered oddly after 95 lines? |
| 18:09.27 | krka | actually, may not be exactly 95 |
| 18:09.32 | krka | i forgot to consider wraparounds |
| 18:11.11 | krka | could be the height of the container or something.. hm |
| 18:12.25 | Qzot2 | Miravlix: I don't think this is a serious problem. The output would *only* be hooked for the duration of the execution of the /sl command. |
| 18:13.41 | Qzot2 | I think that probably means that the back end probably can't even interrupt, because of the way the Lua VM works. |
| 18:14.03 | Qzot2 | (Were there enough 'probably's in the last sentence to leave me some weasel room?) |
| 18:17.09 | Miravlix | because of the way that Lua VM probably works? |
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| 18:34.08 | Iriel | krka: I have no idea 8-) |
| 18:35.12 | krka | then i'm screwed :P |
| 18:35.53 | Iriel | What was that about the lua VM? |
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| 18:37.04 | krka | yeah, probably |
| 18:37.14 | Iriel | Interesting, ReloadUI now requires hardware input |
| 18:37.48 | wereHamster | does it mean /reload won't work anymore? |
| 18:38.38 | Iriel | It works fine |
| 18:38.46 | Iriel | chat entry became a hardware event in 1.10 |
| 18:39.01 | Miravlix | It's Cosmos ReloadUI with emote support that breaks. |
| 18:39.10 | wereHamster | oh.. I didn't know that :) |
| 18:39.13 | Miravlix | It has a timer before it reloadui |
| 18:40.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=dan@ool-18b8808d.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:40.37 | Miravlix | And I can't make emote handling work without a timeout before the reload |
| 18:40.55 | Kaso | Why an emote? |
| 18:41.06 | Miravlix | DoEmote("sleep");ReloadUI() |
| 18:41.15 | Miravlix | So others can see I'm 'not' there |
| 18:41.21 | Kaso | ah |
| 18:41.44 | Miravlix | Problem is the DoEmote("sleep") is delayed and wont get processed before the ReloadUI() |
| 18:41.55 | krka | i bet blizz broke it just to spite you :P |
| 18:42.00 | Miravlix | So since my code does a DoEmote("sit") on PeW |
| 18:42.15 | Iriel | I suspect they broke it to work around an AFK avoidance issue |
| 18:42.20 | Miravlix | It unfortunately still sleeps after it's loged in |
| 18:42.33 | krka | Iriel, or communication with the world |
| 18:42.38 | Miravlix | I still go afk right on login when I do /reload |
| 18:42.56 | Iriel | Oh, maybe it's a different thing people are doing then |
| 18:42.59 | Miravlix | So I don't see where reloadui caused a afk avoider |
| 18:43.05 | Iriel | Pseu |
| 18:43.34 | Iriel | Pseudo-real-time updates of data or something via automatic reloads, I'm sure there's SOME reason for it 8-) |
| 18:44.19 | Miravlix | Just to bad the delayed emote gets send back to my client so late. |
| 18:44.37 | Miravlix | That even using PeW isn't late enough for doing the wakeup emote |
| 18:45.01 | Miravlix | Hmm, perhaps Chronos.afterInit would be late enough |
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| 18:50.05 | Miravlix | Hell |
| 18:50.20 | Miravlix | I'm already doing it using Chronos.afterInit so no dice. :p |
| 18:59.58 | Cairenn | clad|sleep: well duh, of course we'll host it for you |
| 19:02.19 | kremonte | any people here who could translate something to german for me? doing a french project for humor :3 |
| 19:05.29 | Qzot2 | (Just back from a meeting. Iriel: Will re-send the original musing...) |
| 19:05.47 | Qzot2 | I'm thinking of an addon that redirects output sent to the chat frame to party/guild chat for the duraction of an included /command. Has something like this been written already? |
| 19:05.56 | Qzot2 | Example: /2party /sl list |
| 19:06.06 | Qzot2 | ...would do a /sl list, intercept the output, and re-send it to the party channel. |
| 19:06.18 | Qzot2 | Miravlix: I don't think this is a serious problem. The output would *only* be hooked for the duration of the execution of the /sl command. |
| 19:06.30 | Qzot2 | I think that probably means that the back end probably can't even interrupt, because of the way the Lua VM works. |
| 19:06.38 | Qzot2 | (Were there enough 'probably's in the last sentence to leave me some weasel room?) |
| 19:06.48 | Qzot2 | [End of replay] |
| 19:06.59 | Wobin_ | hehe |
| 19:07.11 | Miravlix | Hmm, ChannelManager has a ReloadUI() delayer that seems a bit more complicated to remove |
| 19:07.18 | Wobin_ | I was thinking "Wow, covering all the bases and possible replies all at the same time.." |
| 19:07.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (i=qw@102.80-202-35.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:07.27 | Qzot2 | Hehe. |
| 19:08.34 | Cide | why delay ReloadUI()? |
| 19:09.51 | Qzot2 | And...? Has something like this been written already? |
| 19:10.10 | Legorol | Iriel, did you mean to convince us that you exist? |
| 19:10.52 | Miravlix | Hmm, how do you /afk in a script? |
| 19:11.11 | Kaso | sendchatmessage(msg,"AFK") isnt it |
| 19:13.06 | Miravlix | I get a cached message about being afk, that happends at PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD, when doing DoEmote("sleep");ReloadUI() |
| 19:13.11 | Miravlix | err |
| 19:13.16 | Miravlix | About sleeping |
| 19:13.39 | Iriel | Qzot2: I'm not aware of something that does that |
| 19:14.13 | Qzot2 | k. If I can reach the end of it, I'll add it to my to-do list. |
| 19:14.18 | Iriel | Qzot2: The comment about interruption is probably largely correct, but there **ARE** some events that can be delivered during the execution of normal code |
| 19:14.25 | Miravlix | Hmm, no when I turn on my event watcher, I can see it happends quite a bit later than PeW and thats my problem |
| 19:14.42 | Iriel | Qzot2: Your code can't be pre-empted, but certain API calls can dispatch an event before their return. |
| 19:14.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobble (n=Wobin@221.221.16.163) |
| 19:14.44 | Qzot2 | Even the occasional glitch should not be that problematic. |
| 19:14.54 | Miravlix | It's really hard to find an event to fire on to do my DoEmote("sit") after it |
| 19:15.04 | Qzot2 | Iriel: Fascinating. I didn't know that. |
| 19:15.14 | Iriel | Qzot2 : Target changes, for example |
| 19:15.49 | Qzot2 | But even in that case, it might be reasonable to divert any chat output generated because of the event call. |
| 19:16.27 | Qzot2 | The only problem would be diverting chat output that was generated by *incoming* chat that came during the execution of the command. That can't happen, can it? |
| 19:17.59 | Iriel | That wouldn't currently happen, correct |
| 19:18.18 | Iriel | server-generated events aren't dispatched mid-execution of something else |
| 19:18.32 | Iriel | Make sure you use pcall to tidy up if the thing you call breaks 8-) |
| 19:19.13 | Kaso | Is there anyway of getting your Name and Guild tag above your own head? |
| 19:19.26 | Iriel | Kaso: Short of drawing them on screen with a marker, no |
| 19:19.31 | Kaso | aww :< |
| 19:19.43 | Iriel | Kaso: (Or doing an addon that's the equivalent of the drawn-on-screen labelling) |
| 19:20.16 | Kaso | 2D pastes onto 3d enviroment suck |
| 19:20.34 | Kaso | I want to show my my awesome <Kaso> Guild tag |
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| 19:27.32 | Maldivia | hmm, drone storm... my backlog in #C++ is 85% has quit (K-Lined) |
| 19:28.53 | Miravlix | Hmm, something has changed the cached sleep happends just micro seconds before Chronos.afterInit |
| 19:29.47 | Rokar | is it possible to change a characters hairstyle in the same way you can change their race/gender? |
| 19:38.14 | Miravlix | FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, this freaking sucks |
| 19:38.19 | End | :O |
| 19:38.38 | Miravlix | Using CHAT_MSG_TEXT_EMOTE event to capture the cached DoEmote("something");ReloadUI() |
| 19:38.54 | Miravlix | And my event is exectued BEFORE the event |
| 19:39.17 | Iriel | Which event is which? |
| 19:39.52 | Miravlix | DoEmote("sleep") creates the event CHAT_MSG_TEXT_EMOTE,You fall asleep. Zzzzzzz. |
| 19:40.09 | Miravlix | That event isn't sent to my client before a bit after PeW. |
| 19:40.54 | Miravlix | So I though I was smart in event catching it, but CHAT_MSG_TEXT_EMOTE is given to my event handler, before it's processed |
| 19:41.07 | Kaso | (noob question: PeW?) |
| 19:41.20 | Miravlix | So my DoEmote("sit") ends up being executed before the cached DoEmote("sleep") |
| 19:41.30 | zenzelezz | Kaso: PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 19:41.36 | Kaso | kk |
| 19:41.59 | Wobin_ | OMGLAZARBEAMSPEWPEWPEW |
| 19:42.18 | Wobin_ | (I would so <3 Blizzard if they put that event in) |
| 19:42.21 | Miravlix | Your raid crashed and is all login back in? |
| 19:43.34 | Iriel | So let me get this straight... |
| 19:44.06 | Iriel | what do you mean by "is given to my event handler, before it's processed" ? |
| 19:44.21 | Iriel | Do you mean your client gets the notification before your character actually performs the action? |
| 19:44.31 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 19:45.19 | Miravlix | Using a Chronos.schedule(1 second in the future to fix it. |
| 19:45.43 | Iriel | Is that because you get the notification and that triggers both the message and the START of the animation, which then takes time to happen? |
| 19:46.16 | Miravlix | I don't know where in the UI it tells the GFX to do the emote |
| 19:46.53 | Miravlix | But emotes is lagged. |
| 19:46.55 | Wobin_ | Could be lag? |
| 19:47.43 | Iriel | well, you could tell, visually |
| 19:47.58 | Miravlix | It caches a DoEmote("sleep");ReloadUI() until after PeW, so it's way lagged |
| 19:48.05 | Miravlix | Some kind of synchronization |
| 19:48.11 | Iriel | As we talked about when you were first playing with this, your client is reacting to asynchronous events going via the server |
| 19:48.14 | krka | Miravlix, just make a a macro that uses two keypresses |
| 19:48.26 | krka | once to sleep, twice to log out |
| 19:48.26 | Iriel | I bet if you had 2 computers logged in, the first one would see you fall asleep as you reload |
| 19:48.30 | Miravlix | It's the ReloadUI addon |
| 19:48.30 | Iriel | on the second |
| 19:48.50 | Iriel | but the second one doesn't get to process those events until after it's done reloading, thus the apparent delay |
| 19:49.05 | Miravlix | I could do a for i=1, 1000000000 do end |
| 19:49.17 | Miravlix | Do create intentional lag for the emote to take effect |
| 19:49.27 | Miravlix | s/Do/To/ |
| 19:49.39 | Iriel | That wont help you |
| 19:49.51 | Iriel | The problem isn't the emote taking effect, it's your client being able to react to it |
| 19:49.57 | Iriel | At least, that's my theory |
| 19:50.15 | Miravlix | If the emote is handled before my client reload |
| 19:50.33 | Miravlix | Then it wont synchronize with the server after a reload |
| 19:50.58 | Iriel | but it can't be handled in the middle of a busy loop |
| 19:51.01 | Iriel | it'll be in the event queue |
| 19:51.02 | Miravlix | Thats why a DoEmote("sleep");wait 3 seconds;ReloadUI() was nice |
| 19:51.21 | Iriel | the question is whether the client's event queue is preserved during a reload |
| 19:51.37 | AnduinLothar | you could just make a global flag and hit the emote twice.. |
| 19:51.39 | Iriel | If it's not, then the busy loop might help (And you can use GetTime() in the loop) |
| 19:51.42 | Miravlix | Naah, it's some synchronization with the server |
| 19:51.59 | Iriel | If it is, then there's nothing you can do about it |
| 19:53.24 | Iriel | I dont THINK this is all that mysterious, there are 3 components involved |
| 19:53.43 | Iriel | [Asynchronous UI] [Threaded WoW Client] <------> [Asynchronous WoW Server] |
| 19:53.58 | Iriel | when you execute DoEmote("sleep") that triggers a message to the server |
| 19:54.12 | Iriel | which is processed, and the event responses come back shortly after to the client and then eventually to the UI |
| 19:54.22 | Miravlix | And the feedback is queued, due to my client doing a ReloadUI() |
| 19:54.23 | Iriel | ReloadUI() however, is processed immediately by the UI |
| 19:54.27 | Miravlix | I know that already |
| 19:54.47 | Miravlix | Other players sees me as sleeping |
| 19:55.00 | Iriel | the question is, if you execute a busy wait in the UI, long enough that the server would have responded to the event, does that event get queued in the client, or discarded during the reload |
| 19:55.21 | Miravlix | My problem is finding a way to wake up after I log in again |
| 19:55.21 | Iriel | If it's queued, then there's no point in waiting, you're going to have the same issue when you come back anyway. |
| 19:56.27 | Iriel | And just firing DoEmote("sit") on PEW doesn't cut it? |
| 19:56.33 | Miravlix | I haven't bothered with any delay solution at all, because there isn't a way to call the wow event handler, to finish things up, even if I could loop |
| 19:56.48 | Miravlix | Nope, because the cached sleep event happends after PeW |
| 19:56.49 | Iriel | Miravlix : Well, there IS a way, but you sacrifice your hardware event 8-) |
| 19:57.00 | Iriel | True, but why is that a problem? |
| 19:57.06 | Iriel | The sit event should follow it |
| 19:57.11 | Miravlix | Because DoEmote("sit") |
| 19:57.19 | Iriel | afterall, everyone else sees you as sleeping already |
| 19:57.20 | Miravlix | Will be overruled by the cached event |
| 19:57.24 | Miravlix | and I will stay sleeping |
| 19:57.33 | Iriel | Really? that's weird, are you sitting to everyone else? |
| 19:57.40 | Miravlix | Nope |
| 19:58.00 | Miravlix | I'm still sleeping, so somehow the DoEmote("sit") is ignored |
| 19:58.32 | Iriel | So no matter when you send sit, if it's before your client's seen the sleep, it gets ignored? |
| 19:58.34 | Miravlix | Except when I Chronos.schedule(longenoughdelaytobeafterthecachedsleep |
| 19:58.48 | Industrial | I'm rick james bitch: http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?1357719 |
| 19:58.55 | Miravlix | Iriel: Yeps |
| 19:59.02 | Iriel | Can you just send a sit on PEW, then if you see a sleep anytime in the next say, 10 seconds, send a second sit? |
| 19:59.13 | Miravlix | Nope |
| 19:59.24 | Miravlix | Because if I see the emote it's still before the emote happend |
| 19:59.46 | Miravlix | So it would still be DoEmote("sit") while the server is processing the sleep |
| 20:00.08 | Iriel | Well, you have chronos, so you can send that second sit a timed period later |
| 20:00.23 | Iriel | It's still more reliable than randomly offsetting a sit from PEW |
| 20:02.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cmunn (n=cmunn@c-68-63-221-162.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 20:02.24 | cmunn | Wow, It almost looks like Blizzard's trying to absorb CTRA with 1.11, lol |
| 20:02.32 | Miravlix | I hate non atomic programming |
| 20:03.19 | Miravlix | Hmm, what I do now is watch for the chat event, then execute DoEmote("sit") a second later, that seems to work reliably. |
| 20:03.45 | Miravlix | But unfortunately my UI isn't lagged at the moment, so Chronos.afterInit actually works too. |
| 20:04.04 | Miravlix | Hmm, if I set it to 5 seconds, it should guarentee even with bad lag, that it gets done. |
| 20:05.47 | Kaso | this seems alot of effort just to /sleep when you reloadUI |
| 20:06.06 | Miravlix | Tell that to Slouken he made ReloadUI a hardware event |
| 20:06.49 | Miravlix | It was a few lines of code before 1.11 now I had to remove the delayed reloadUI() call and all this nonsense |
| 20:08.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:08.13 | Iriel | Most of us just stay standing when we reload 8-) |
| 20:08.43 | Miravlix | Well, I'm a social creature, it's quite annoying for others not to know if I'm there or not |
| 20:09.01 | AnduinLothar | you get all their msgs.. |
| 20:09.04 | Gryphen | how long is your reload? |
| 20:09.06 | Gryphen | heh |
| 20:09.08 | Miravlix | Nope |
| 20:09.18 | Miravlix | I have 10 pages of spam on login |
| 20:09.23 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 20:09.23 | Cide | I have never missed any |
| 20:09.27 | Miravlix | My reload is 30+ seconds |
| 20:09.35 | Iriel | Wouldn't removing the spam be a better solution? |
| 20:09.35 | Gryphen | i havent ever noticed any missed messages |
| 20:09.39 | AnduinLothar | so is mine... I've never had a problem |
| 20:09.53 | Miravlix | I do |
| 20:10.02 | Iriel | The events are queued, as noted by this problem, the question is whether they're still on the screen after all your other stuff happens |
| 20:10.10 | cmunn | Or if you've got that much spam, create a new chat tab and only select say, yell, whisper, guild, etc |
| 20:10.45 | Miravlix | I have 4 chat tabs already |
| 20:10.53 | cmunn | Then what's one more <3 |
| 20:10.54 | Miravlix | No room left in my UI for more. |
| 20:11.03 | AnduinLothar | tabs.. |
| 20:11.23 | Miravlix | Then I would miss even mroe since I had to change tab to read it all |
| 20:11.43 | cmunn | then you're getting too many messages. I suggest burning some bridges |
| 20:11.52 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 20:11.57 | Gryphen | :o |
| 20:12.04 | AnduinLothar | ya, what happened to not being social? |
| 20:12.30 | Cide | programmers are not meant to be social. you're destroying the stereotype. |
| 20:12.32 | cmunn | Last I heard that was a prerequisite for coding.... Are you hacking? |
| 20:12.34 | Cide | stop it immediately! |
| 20:12.36 | Miravlix | I like it this way, I DoEmote("sleep") so ppl can tell I'm gone and DoEmote("sit") when I return |
| 20:12.52 | Gryphen | weird |
| 20:13.03 | Kaso | what if people you're talking too arent near you? |
| 20:13.25 | Miravlix | considering a timed queue of last channel/whisper communicates to send to those too |
| 20:13.36 | AnduinLothar | spam ftl |
| 20:13.41 | Miravlix | But I'm just going with adding /afk |
| 20:13.58 | AnduinLothar | better idea |
| 20:14.14 | AnduinLothar | double click macro for ju! |
| 20:14.36 | cmunn | Or you could try SendChatMessage("Thanks for all the epics!", "GUILD"); GuildLeave(): |
| 20:14.50 | Miravlix | So when are they going to make DoEmote require a hardware event? |
| 20:14.53 | cmunn | err... GuildLeave(); |
| 20:15.07 | Miravlix | Loss the ;'s |
| 20:15.17 | AnduinLothar | lose? |
| 20:15.23 | cmunn | Even if it's on one line? |
| 20:15.26 | AnduinLothar | loose? |
| 20:15.28 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 20:15.30 | Iriel | You dont need them |
| 20:15.33 | Cide | lose :) |
| 20:15.33 | Miravlix | They are totally pointless |
| 20:15.35 | Iriel | But they're not hurting |
| 20:15.39 | Cide | I still prefer semicolons |
| 20:15.41 | Iriel | unless you run out of space 8-) |
| 20:15.44 | AnduinLothar | lasoe? |
| 20:15.45 | Gryphen | i prefer em too |
| 20:15.46 | Iriel | I find they aid readability |
| 20:15.48 | Cide | they're not entirely pointless, no (like Iriel described) |
| 20:15.49 | ckknight | agreed, Miravlix |
| 20:16.04 | ckknight | I typically use semicolons if things are on the same line (which I only do when sending someone a message) |
| 20:16.04 | Cide | aye, I agree with Iriel. it helps a *lot* when you code several different languages (a lot of languages require them) |
| 20:16.04 | Miravlix | I use comma when it's required |
| 20:16.05 | Gryphen | especially cross coding where a lot of other languages need em |
| 20:16.06 | Iriel | There's also a fringe case where they're REQUIRED |
| 20:16.06 | Kaso | they make my eyes hurt :< give my plain old any day |
| 20:16.15 | Iriel | comma is worse than semicolon |
| 20:16.22 | Iriel | since comma means the language has to build up a list |
| 20:16.28 | ckknight | they're pointless in lua, though, except for a few fringe cases |
| 20:16.35 | Iriel | logically, it may be smart enough to optimize it |
| 20:16.46 | Kaso | which finge cases? |
| 20:16.48 | Cide | ckknight: so not pointless? :) |
| 20:16.49 | Miravlix | table = { this = "test", huba = "hoba", } |
| 20:16.56 | ckknight | a(b)(c)(d) |
| 20:17.05 | Miravlix | I find comma in those much more usefull |
| 20:17.12 | ckknight | I agree, Miravlix |
| 20:17.21 | AnduinLothar | meh, i use whatever strikes my fancy at the time |
| 20:17.22 | Iriel | In tables, yes, comma in a table constructor |
| 20:17.31 | Iriel | I thought you meant within a statement |
| 20:17.32 | Miravlix | Especially since they aren't confused with all the ppl dropping ; everywhere |
| 20:17.46 | Miravlix | Iriel: Comma and ; works the same in that table |
| 20:17.59 | Miravlix | It just have to be a seperator |
| 20:18.00 | Iriel | Miravlix : I know |
| 20:18.15 | Iriel | Miravlix : I thought you meant /script a(),b(),c() |
| 20:18.24 | Miravlix | Can't you do DoEmote("sit"), ReloadUI() too? |
| 20:18.41 | AnduinLothar | who want to test wardrobe before I release it to the wild? |
| 20:18.45 | Iriel | Actually, I guess /script local _=a(),b(),c() |
| 20:18.56 | Miravlix | Not me your last beta screwed me over. :p |
| 20:19.44 | AnduinLothar | back up your wtf silly |
| 20:20.14 | cmunn | Or buy a second machine for UI testing, like all the cool kids |
| 20:20.17 | AnduinLothar | fine then I'll sick it on the users and see who dies first |
| 20:21.19 | ckknight | Iriel, why would you do that? |
| 20:21.54 | Iriel | ckknight : I have no idea, but that's what I thought when I read "<Miravlix> I use comma when it's required" |
| 20:22.01 | ckknight | hrm |
| 20:22.06 | ckknight | okay, I don't think he was implying that case |
| 20:22.12 | ckknight | just for tables and such |
| 20:22.12 | Iriel | He wasn't |
| 20:22.15 | Iriel | he was referring to tables |
| 20:22.17 | ckknight | alright then |
| 20:22.44 | Miravlix | Isn't this how you do /afk in scripts? /script SendChatMessage("Reloading UI", "AFK") |
| 20:23.42 | Iriel | That's what the UI does for /afk |
| 20:24.10 | Miravlix | Hmm, I can't include a message |
| 20:24.16 | Miravlix | it works if I do "", "AFK" |
| 20:25.14 | Iriel | SlashCmdList["CHAT_AFK"] = function(msg) SendChatMessage(msg, "AFK"); end |
| 20:25.19 | Iriel | That's the standard /afk command in blizzland |
| 20:26.27 | Miravlix | I am a bit mistifyed why I can't set the afk message |
| 20:29.16 | Miravlix | Baah |
| 20:29.30 | Miravlix | SendChatMessage("", "AFK");ReloadUI() doesn't work |
| 20:30.43 | AnduinLothar | mmm, curse added 'Support Author' paypal buttons, nifty |
| 20:31.11 | ckknight | Miravlix, sometimes I reloadUI and don't want to /afk, such as if I'm in BG |
| 20:31.37 | ckknight | AnduinLothar, yea, pretty neat |
| 20:32.07 | AnduinLothar | any idea what the #'s next to the dependancies is for? |
| 20:32.12 | Miravlix | Silly me |
| 20:32.30 | Miravlix | You can't send a SendChatMessage("something", "AFK") when you are afk |
| 20:32.32 | AnduinLothar | and why they dont list with spaces and commas.. |
| 20:32.50 | AnduinLothar | oh, curse id |
| 20:34.41 | Miravlix | ckknight: I was thinking of making /rla and /rl so you can choose |
| 20:35.02 | ckknight | hrm |
| 20:35.40 | Kaso | why not use DND instead? |
| 20:35.50 | Qzot2 | Iriel: I thought commas and semicolons were interchangable, since you can use both in a list. |
| 20:35.54 | krka | that's a completely different game |
| 20:36.25 | Maldivia | Qzot2: in table constuctors, they are |
| 20:37.15 | Maldivia | everywhere else they have a different meaning |
| 20:41.38 | Miravlix | How do I detect DND status on self? |
| 20:42.22 | Kaso | whisper youself? :> |
| 20:42.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 20:42.56 | Miravlix | I can't catch events |
| 20:43.06 | Miravlix | I need hardware events... |
| 20:43.32 | Miravlix | I could monitor DND and have a flag telling if it's on or off. |
| 20:44.05 | Kaso | think that might be the only sensible way |
| 20:53.31 | Tain | Is there anything to keep yourself from auto-flagging afk? Not looking to avoid disconnect on inactivity, just the afk flag coming on. |
| 20:57.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.204.55) |
| 20:59.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge The-Real (i=the_real@85.24.45.37) |
| 21:00.31 | The-Real | *grumble* |
| 21:01.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:01.13 | zespri|home | lol flight master in rachet! now horde has very easy time questing up to lvl 30 =) |
| 21:01.24 | duke|ib | what? lame :( |
| 21:01.37 | duke|ib | i wish the alliance had a zone like the barrens |
| 21:02.12 | Wobin_ | What, like Westfall/Darkshire/Redridge? |
| 21:02.18 | The-Real | I head lightning strike nearby... and suddently, I had no Internet... :) |
| 21:02.29 | The-Real | heard* |
| 21:02.33 | zespri|home | what zone Talendris Point is in? |
| 21:02.39 | duke|ib | Wobin_: make darkshire and redridge alliance territory, then we've got a deal |
| 21:03.03 | Wobin_ | The-Real: Maybe it's connected! =) |
| 21:03.11 | The-Real | you think ? |
| 21:03.20 | Wobin_ | Quick, check if your milk has gone sour! |
| 21:03.36 | Wobin_ | I bet you milk turning sour will make your internet fail! |
| 21:09.01 | Industrial | redridge sucks |
| 21:09.04 | Industrial | westfall is ok |
| 21:09.07 | Industrial | done it too much |
| 21:09.13 | Industrial | darkshire is cool |
| 21:09.14 | Industrial | ; |
| 21:09.27 | The-Real | lock modan... |
| 21:09.31 | Industrial | sucks also |
| 21:09.32 | Industrial | :P |
| 21:09.44 | Industrial | http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?1357719 |
| 21:09.47 | Industrial | wheee im so happy |
| 21:09.48 | Industrial | :D |
| 21:09.48 | The-Real | but done them a lot of times :) |
| 21:14.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge groll (n=hepp@62.119.159.41) |
| 21:15.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge haste (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no) |
| 21:18.31 | Kirkburn | Does anyone have the latest Office beta or Vista beta on their system? If so, I need a favour :) |
| 21:19.02 | Kirkburn | zespri|home, it's Azshara |
| 21:19.29 | Kirkburn | I'm sure you've already found that out though :P |
| 21:19.48 | Kirkburn | Redridge ain't that bad - there's loads of quests right next to the town |
| 21:20.04 | Kirkburn | Ignore the orc quests and you don't have to go far at all |
| 21:28.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge netcurse (n=net@dslb-088-064-177-057.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:43.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:43.08 | Shouryuu|Crazy | boo |
| 21:47.03 | Shouryuu|Crazy | fine, don't act scared |
| 21:47.39 | Wobin_ | oh noes I is escared I need a huggle |
| 21:47.50 | Shouryuu|Crazy | *GLEE* |
| 21:47.58 | Wobin_ | I can't do it as well as Gryph =( |
| 21:48.09 | Shouryuu|Crazy | He's had lots and lots of training |
| 21:51.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:58.43 | Kirkburn | AaaaaHhhh!!! Shouryuu|Crazy is scary!!!! /cry |
| 21:58.59 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Yeah I've gone mad |
| 21:59.24 | Wobin_ | It finally happened. Happened |
| 21:59.26 | Wobin_ | It finally happened. Happened |
| 21:59.35 | Wobin_ | It finally happened, he's slighty maaad |
| 21:59.40 | Wobin_ | So very slightly maad |
| 22:00.30 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I'm going slightly madddddd |
| 22:00.34 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I'm going, slightly mad.... |
| 22:02.31 | Kirkburn | Gawd wowwiki is sloow when editing stuff |
| 22:02.45 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Gawd I'm bored |
| 22:02.58 | Kirkburn | Update the wowwiki then |
| 22:03.52 | Kirkburn | Watching it load is like watching paint dry |
| 22:04.03 | Shouryuu|Crazy | ohhhhh |
| 22:04.06 | Shouryuu|Crazy | I wana I wana |
| 22:04.12 | Shouryuu|Crazy | pick me pick meeee |
| 22:13.16 | Qzot2 | Did you guys catch the paint-drying playoffs this weekend? |
| 22:14.32 | Kirkburn | I'm still watching them ... :-/ |
| 22:16.43 | Qzot2 | :D |
| 22:17.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (i=qw@102.80-202-35.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:19.04 | Tem | Iriel: you around? |
| 22:19.42 | Tem | er, well, it doesn't have to be him.. |
| 22:20.09 | Tem | Anyone have any suggestions for graphically representing an "object tree?" |
| 22:20.25 | Iriel | Tem; Yes |
| 22:20.36 | Iriel | You mean a type tree, or an instance tree? |
| 22:20.37 | Qzot2 | What do you mean by "object tree"? |
| 22:20.41 | Tem | type tree |
| 22:20.46 | Tem | class A |
| 22:20.51 | Tem | class B extends A |
| 22:20.53 | Tem | ect |
| 22:20.56 | Iriel | UML ? |
| 22:21.24 | Iriel | (Only the class hierarchy parts of UML tho) |
| 22:21.33 | Wobin_ | UML works well enough |
| 22:21.34 | Tem | I'm not familliar with it |
| 22:21.45 | Tem | how steep of a learning curve does it have? |
| 22:21.48 | qw` | Design Class Diagram, look up UML to find it, or Rational Unified Process under planning stage |
| 22:21.49 | Iriel | It's basically boxes and arrows with appropriately shaped heads |
| 22:22.07 | Wobin_ | ~UML |
| 22:22.10 | purl | rumour has it, uml is User Mode Linux, which allows you to boot a kernel in user space. http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/. Unified Modelling Language, or at http://people.debian.org/~wli/uml_0.37-1_i386.deb, or has been integrated in ac patches |
| 22:22.22 | Iriel | http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/umlClassDiagrams.pdf |
| 22:23.09 | Iriel | Qzot2: Bad UML experiences? |
| 22:23.20 | Qzot2 | Um. What made you say that? |
| 22:23.25 | Wobin_ | There are -good- UML experiences? =P |
| 22:23.30 | Qzot2 | LOL |
| 22:23.54 | Iriel | well, there are 'I needed to draw a class hierarchy and used UML symbols because I had templates for them in my visualization package' experiences |
| 22:24.10 | Iriel | I dont buy in to the greater UML vision, I must say |
| 22:24.58 | Qzot2 | Agreed. But in general, I place UML in the same category as model-driven design and J2EE. |
| 22:25.21 | Qzot2 | I'm sure there's a kernel of a good idea in them somewhere... |
| 22:25.21 | qw` | UML is just a tool to abstract information into chunks and speed up the information sharing, imho |
| 22:25.39 | Qzot2 | I see UML where people are trying to compile it. :P |
| 22:25.53 | Wobin_ | I see dead people. |
| 22:25.53 | Qzot2 | Or generate it automagically from the source. :P |
| 22:25.57 | Qzot2 | Bingo. |
| 22:26.20 | End | I usually only see living people. |
| 22:26.26 | qw` | Ah, generated UML usually suck. But using UML as a tool during design and testing is very useful |
| 22:26.59 | Qzot2 | Yes. Iran is only going to use the uranium for peaceful purposes. |
| 22:27.27 | Qzot2 | Sorry, qw. Uncalled for. I agree with you completely. |
| 22:27.27 | End | And I only spend 100% of my time at work working. |
| 22:27.48 | End | ~unproductivity |
| 22:27.49 | purl | yay! |
| 22:28.02 | Qzot2 | But it's hard to strain out the utility of UML from the imbecility I see it connected with. |
| 22:28.49 | Tain | You're writing a kernel in UML? |
| 22:29.17 | wereHamster | yay.. PTR character copied :) |
| 22:29.25 | qw` | When did UML become a programming language? :P |
| 22:30.02 | Iriel | IT's a modelling language, but people wrote tools to create code from the model |
| 22:30.51 | qw` | Yeah, I tried out Eclipse with Omondo UML, but it only generates the shells of a class afaik, you still have to implement the logic |
| 22:31.11 | Wobin_ | PlzWriteMyPrgrm4Me? =) |
| 22:32.45 | qw` | But maybe the proprietary tools, like Visual Paradigm, can engineer entire java applications from drag and drop UML. I never got to try the expensive versions |
| 22:33.17 | Wobin_ | It may be able to engineer the systems... but how well coded is it? |
| 22:33.38 | Qzot2 | Heh. It all amounts to the same thing... |
| 22:35.04 | qw` | Too much UML; lack of tits detected. Therefore I link you this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAFPCqdrmPM |
| 22:35.05 | Qzot2 | There's a difference between providing excellent tools that help a software engineer/programmer/analyst do her job, and trying to eliminate the engineering aspect altogether, i.e., trying to make it so that any manager/monkey/person-off-the-street can develop software. The two are *often* confused. |
| 22:36.03 | qw` | you have to throw efficiency into that mix. A tool like UML used correctly is awesome for making a monkey / manager understand some of the concepts |
| 22:36.06 | Qzot2 | You can provide excellent tools that help someone engineer well, *without* removing the engineering inherent in the process. |
| 22:36.19 | Qzot2 | Qw: Agreed. |
| 22:36.36 | Qzot2 | Maybe. |
| 22:36.50 | Qzot2 | COBOL was designed so that managers could check their programmers' work. |
| 22:37.22 | Qzot2 | In the end, COBOL programs grew complex enough to prevent that, in spite of the verbosity. |
| 22:39.05 | qw` | UML is kind of like RUP, you have to pick the tasks and artifacts you want to make that suits the project and drop the rest that will only create overhead. Less document wanking imho and more time spent on actually developing the software. I'm a big fan of iterative and domain centered development |
| 22:41.01 | qw` | Even though it feels very uncomfortable from a project lead viewpoint when the specifications aren't set in stone from the get go |
| 22:44.33 | Kaso | Is there any way of getting the last line of ChatFrame, like for a macro so no hooking or anything. |
| 22:45.32 | Tem | not that I know of |
| 22:45.50 | qw` | .//echo -a &1- |
| 22:45.56 | Qzot2 | Qw: Agreed. That's what RUP even says to do. But as Boehm points out, that's not what usually happens. The most frightened stakeholder in a project usually insists on doing everything available in the process. |
| 22:46.42 | qw` | ignore my echo thing, I was going to see if I remembered the mIRC way to echo the last line |
| 22:47.51 | qw` | Qzot2 - I'd like to see a three week project utilizing the entire RUP suite :P |
| 22:50.49 | Qzot2 | Qw: Exactly. |
| 22:51.00 | qw` | Qzot2 - I'm not sure if it's because the stakeholder is frightened; people have a problem relating to an iterative model vs the plain waterfall method of doing things, and documenting every nook and corner != iterative |
| 22:51.20 | Qzot2 | I think we're in violent agreement. |
| 22:51.46 | Qzot2 | (And even the original proposer of the waterfall model viewed the stages as linked feedback loops.) |
| 22:51.48 | qw` | I think I like violent agreements |
| 22:53.22 | qw` | I tried explaing this to someone I know why it's so hard to understand. The best analogy I could come up with was that outside the software world things just doesn't happen iteratively. You don't build part of the foundation of a house, part of the bathroom and part of the livingroom at the same time, everything goes stage #1 -> stage #2 -> stage #3 -> finish with a huge blueprint to boot |
| 22:54.37 | qw` | Would probably be an interesting house thoug |
| 22:54.39 | qw` | *though |
| 22:54.49 | Iriel | There's no reason you can't build software that way |
| 22:55.17 | qw` | Yeah, hence outside the software world |
| 22:55.25 | Iriel | The metaphor works best when you consider a complex single entity like say, a foundation |
| 22:56.12 | Iriel | The construction plan doesn't lay out every microscopic detail of its construction and expect there to be no changes |
| 22:56.28 | Iriel | it either says 'put this kind of foundation here' and leaves it for the people on-site to figure out how to address unexpected issues |
| 22:56.45 | Iriel | Or it lays out excruciating detail INCLUDING what to do when something unexpected happens |
| 22:57.02 | qw` | But you can't change the foundation when you're laying rooftiles, which is the major derivation from an agile and iterative software approach |
| 22:57.12 | Iriel | I find real construction and software has more in common than people give it credit for |
| 22:57.25 | Iriel | the difference is that in software you can throw a house away and start again, re-using work you did before |
| 22:57.47 | Iriel | You really CAN change the foundation when you're laying rooftiles |
| 22:57.50 | Iriel | but it's expensive |
| 22:57.55 | Iriel | that's true in software also |
| 23:03.11 | qw` | The ramifications of changing the foundation on a house because you CAN do it != it's as simple as it is in a project that is planned for changes, big or small, which is my point that building a house is mainly waterfall thinking. |
| 23:18.15 | kremonte | is strlower() any faster than string.lower()? :x |
| 23:19.28 | Wobin_ | syntactic sugar I imagine |
| 23:19.35 | Iriel | technically it is |
| 23:19.44 | Iriel | since string.lower requires a second table dereference |
| 23:19.57 | Iriel | But dont use strlower |
| 23:20.08 | Iriel | if you have to call it a bunch of times locally alias it anyway |
| 23:20.10 | kremonte | porqué? |
| 23:20.29 | Iriel | string.lower is the 'right' function, strlower is a compat.lua crutch for old code |
| 23:20.30 | kremonte | ah was just wondering if it helped either; just calling it twice in this function |
| 23:21.09 | kremonte | oh |
| 23:21.09 | Iriel | Not that it's likely to go away anytime, but from a best practices perspective... |
| 23:24.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu|Crazy (n=Shouryuu@249.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 23:24.54 | kremonte | anyone around that can translate a sentence to german for me? :x |
| 23:25.17 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Not I |
| 23:27.46 | Kirkburn | Said the wolf. |
| 23:28.06 | Kirkburn | But was he wearing sheep's clothing? |
| 23:28.06 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Said the wolf.... hummm what are you quoting? |
| 23:28.22 | Kirkburn | Random stuff =) |
| 23:28.32 | Shouryuu|Crazy | oook |
| 23:28.37 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Kirkburn You in Rome right? |
| 23:28.53 | Kirkburn | 'Oook' - The Librarian? |
| 23:28.59 | Kirkburn | No, Perugia |
| 23:29.10 | Shouryuu|Crazy | ah |
| 23:29.26 | Kirkburn | (you would have to have read Discworld novels to understand why a librarian might say 'oook' :) |
| 23:29.45 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Didn't do that, sorry =( |
| 23:29.54 | Kirkburn | I was thinking of going to Rome tomorrow, but I'm too tired/lazy |
| 23:30.09 | Shouryuu|Crazy | lol |
| 23:30.23 | Kirkburn | I went last week though - does that count? =) |
| 23:30.49 | Shouryuu|Crazy | You're studying there right? |
| 23:30.57 | Shouryuu|Crazy | In Italy |
| 23:31.00 | Kirkburn | Yeah, got about 1 more month here |
| 23:31.27 | Kirkburn | Then I can finally get to see my girlfriend again! :D :D :D :D |
| 23:31.35 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Then you're going back to England or whereever you were> |
| 23:33.01 | Kirkburn | I've got the apartment here until July, so we may have a short holiday here before I go back to england |
| 23:33.21 | Kirkburn | I haven't seen her since her birthday on the 14th Feb :-/ |
| 23:33.51 | Shouryuu|Crazy | awww |
| 23:34.10 | Shouryuu|Crazy | Well I'm going to go back feigning sleep |
| 23:34.16 | Shouryuu|Crazy | rawr out |
| 23:43.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:46.35 | AnduinLothar | wow, that's odd. I think they changed the way the mployee accounts work |
| 23:46.50 | AnduinLothar | used to say 300 month game card |
| 23:46.52 | Qzot2 | Who? How? |
| 23:47.01 | AnduinLothar | but mine got revoked |
| 23:47.08 | AnduinLothar | and they charged me for this month |
| 23:47.25 | AnduinLothar | odd... |
| 23:47.28 | Qzot2 | You are/used-to-be an employee? |
| 23:47.39 | AnduinLothar | was qa for 2 months |
| 23:47.47 | Qzot2 | Ouch. |
| 23:47.59 | Miravlix | Ouch? |
| 23:48.44 | AnduinLothar | and my friends/family accounts got revoked too, went back up to full price |
| 23:49.09 | Iriel | Perhaps it's just them finally catching on to you not working there? |
| 23:49.23 | AnduinLothar | possibly... |
| 23:49.32 | AnduinLothar | but two still work |
| 23:49.37 | AnduinLothar | only one got revoced |
| 23:49.43 | Qzot2 | Ouch: QA rarely gets the respect/resources/relationships needed to do a good job. Plus, a 2-mo stint doesn't sound like fun. |
| 23:50.40 | AnduinLothar | their QA is pretty large and a cool group of people, but it's self limitting. Wasn't much place for improvement or creativity |
| 23:51.23 | AnduinLothar | and of course the people above you wish they had been promoted 6 mo ago so they're not to hot on you going anywhere or having more than they have |
| 23:51.51 | AnduinLothar | 2 months was enough for my personality |
| 23:51.55 | Tem | ~Dr. Tran |
| 23:51.58 | purl | Cowboy hat! |
| 23:52.26 | Tem | rofl. awesome |
| 23:53.36 | AnduinLothar | ya, only my main account got revoked. My testing account was still exempt and I was able to use my last subscription number to get my main account exempt again... just odd... not really something i can complain to blizz about |