| 00:00.43 | Miravlix | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4929036.stm |
| 00:00.43 | Tem|Work | yay time to go home |
| 00:00.53 | Miravlix | Aviation legend dies in plain crash |
| 00:01.20 | me | probably the way he wanted to go |
| 00:01.34 | Miravlix | I'm envius |
| 00:02.55 | Kirov | Iriel - reflections on water are easy |
| 00:03.00 | me | 84, flying a single engine plane, sounds like fun to me |
| 00:03.09 | Iriel|working | Kirov : They do planar mirrors in DDO |
| 00:03.27 | Iriel|working | Kirov : Nothing revolutionary of course, but it's still nice to see |
| 00:03.34 | Kirov | Well, anything planar is easy enough |
| 00:03.50 | Iriel|working | Kirov : Especially if you spot someone hiding around a corner in one |
| 00:04.12 | Kirov | Though I personally think portaling are more effective, even if they are slower. |
| 00:04.33 | Kirov | s/portaling/portaling techniques/ |
| 00:05.43 | Kirov | Doom 3 being a good example of portaled mirrors vs. render to texture |
| 00:12.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:13.20 | Iriel|working | Heh, more like work: 1 - conversation: 0 |
| 00:34.29 | me | anyone around that can log on draka alliance with cosmos to test with me? |
| 00:35.27 | Cairenn | sorry anduin, I don't have cosmos |
| 00:35.51 | me | you could just backup your wtf and inteface folders |
| 00:36.02 | Cairenn | I suppose I could at that |
| 00:36.46 | Iriel|working | I hear if you install cosmos you start to get improper emotions towards small furry animals. |
| 00:37.28 | me | one of the many undocumented 'features' |
| 00:38.07 | Cairenn | anduin, which version? |
| 00:38.18 | me | alpha |
| 00:38.24 | Cairenn | k |
| 00:39.41 | me | has CTA been updated since 1.10, just wondering.. |
| 00:40.06 | Cairenn | anduin, loading it in now, be on in a couple' |
| 00:41.04 | me | kk |
| 00:41.08 | me | thx |
| 00:41.11 | Cairenn | np |
| 00:41.44 | me | shall we play connect4 or team minesweeper? |
| 00:42.40 | Cairenn | lol, is that what you wanted me to log in for? minigames? |
| 00:42.40 | me | no, i need to test some Sky changes with backwards compatibility |
| 00:42.43 | me | and didn't want to duplicate my whole wow folder |
| 00:43.15 | Cairenn | talking to you in game :p |
| 00:55.15 | zeeg | rawr |
| 01:00.36 | norganna | ? |
| 01:02.02 | me | it exceeded my outgoing msg alotment while i was reloading.. |
| 01:02.22 | me | that's no goo |
| 01:02.24 | me | d |
| 01:08.16 | me | wow.. there are like 150 Cosmos users on draka, that's like triple on Kil'Jaeden.. |
| 01:09.13 | me | spose KJ has more experienced players for the most part.. |
| 01:10.22 | me | mmk, maybe only double atm |
| 01:10.57 | zeeg | norganna, got a lot more of the DBCs up |
| 01:11.07 | me | still confused how the Sky channel got 5 moderaters |
| 01:12.16 | norganna | The question I want to ask is: "Do they know what great powers they posses?" |
| 01:12.26 | me | prolly not, lol |
| 01:13.05 | me | sqelch people and they're owned |
| 01:14.04 | me | spose i could implement a safe mode.. |
| 01:14.48 | me | but if you wanted to be anal, it's not really that hard |
| 01:18.14 | norganna | best not to worry about these things until it becomes a problem |
| 01:18.29 | me | right |
| 01:19.08 | norganna | it's not like we're building flight control systems for space craft |
| 01:19.25 | me | not really mmission critical, no |
| 01:21.15 | Cairenn | later Iriel|working |
| 01:22.43 | Iriel|working | Or perhaps I wont, traffic sucks |
| 01:24.38 | me | you could spam yourself with whispers attempting to accertain the max bandwidth.. |
| 01:29.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:34.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@80.244.81.234) |
| 01:41.33 | Miravlix | Bestial Wrath, turns you into a very big Werewolf |
| 01:41.44 | Miravlix | Never seen that effect before. |
| 01:42.09 | Miravlix | Always wished they would have given druids kronos form |
| 01:45.00 | me | so.. at about 50 msgs per second it let me send almost 10k before it booted me (around 8 characters each) |
| 01:45.22 | me | er |
| 01:45.27 | me | 1k messages |
| 01:45.49 | me | 7000+ characters |
| 01:47.36 | me | at 100 msgs per second it booted me after about a second.. |
| 01:48.07 | Miravlix | Whats your conclusion from that? |
| 01:48.25 | me | that that's no enough testing to draw any useful conclusions |
| 01:48.52 | me | except that it may not be a static measurement, but may be a quadratic over time.. |
| 01:50.00 | Iriel|working | Did you monitor your connection's outgoing data rate? |
| 01:50.04 | me | at 55 msgs per second it booted me after like 550 msgs |
| 01:50.27 | Iriel|working | You really need to measure steady state rates also |
| 01:50.33 | me | you mean total packets going out? |
| 01:50.35 | Iriel|working | I'd imagine the D/C code to use a sliding window |
| 01:50.38 | Iriel|working | total BYTES |
| 01:50.51 | me | how would i measure that.. |
| 01:50.52 | Iriel|working | per second |
| 01:50.53 | Miravlix | The build in API call |
| 01:51.09 | Iriel|working | Well, it depends, there's a return from the network stats API call for bandwidth |
| 01:51.27 | Iriel|working | If you've got more than one machine and a hub you can collect statistics that way |
| 01:51.27 | Miravlix | GetNetStats() |
| 01:51.42 | Iriel|working | or if you flow through a firewall or router that has statistics you could ask that |
| 01:52.03 | Miravlix | Hmm, no that isn't the one that returns bytes |
| 01:52.13 | me | ok, well i'm gonna need some measurable way ingame in the end.. |
| 01:52.45 | Miravlix | Or the wiki needs an update? |
| 01:53.22 | me | running the same test a 2nd time got me 250 msgs.. |
| 01:53.26 | Iriel|working | I suspect the wiki needs some data filled in |
| 01:53.35 | Iriel|working | Again, it wont be a "message count" thing |
| 01:53.43 | Iriel|working | it'll be a data rate thing on the server |
| 01:54.00 | Iriel|working | either bytes per time interval, or average bytes/second over a sliding window |
| 01:54.01 | me | either way i need a way to be able to measure it in game |
| 01:54.24 | me | or at least estimate it |
| 01:54.30 | Iriel|working | for a steady state that should be fine, if you're getting D/C'ed within a few seconds then you dont really have a whole lot of data to go on |
| 01:54.43 | Iriel|working | though you may be able to figure out which kind of throttling scheme they're using |
| 01:55.03 | Iriel|working | I would expect the first 2 args of GetNetStats() to be related to bytes/second |
| 01:55.05 | me | ran the test a third time and only got 110 msgs |
| 01:55.10 | Iriel|working | Assuming they return anything |
| 01:55.32 | Iriel|working | Whether it's bytes/sec or packets/sec tho, I wouldn't know without testing it |
| 01:56.01 | Iriel|working | I can probably test that at home though, I have a traffic monitor for my outbound connection |
| 01:56.50 | me | ran it again.. got 660 msgs |
| 01:57.29 | me | spose i could go out to somewhere where there's no people |
| 01:57.42 | me | rather than running it in sw ah |
| 01:58.34 | Iriel|working | ok, leaving now. |
| 01:58.41 | Iriel|working | back from home |
| 01:59.12 | me | again.. 110 |
| 02:01.58 | me | got 1045 msgs off in teldrassil |
| 02:03.43 | me | 825 |
| 02:05.43 | me | 1155 |
| 02:07.49 | me | mc time |
| 02:16.03 | Miravlix | Can't we just ask Slouken for the numbers? |
| 02:16.21 | me | be my guest.. |
| 02:18.06 | Miravlix | And that means? |
| 02:18.52 | me | ask him yourself |
| 02:18.56 | Gryphen | means go ahead and ask him |
| 02:20.14 | Miravlix | Why put it that way, is there some problem? |
| 02:20.33 | me | it's not likely he'll make the info public |
| 02:23.07 | Miravlix | Have we tried to ask, to see if it's restricted information? |
| 02:23.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge End (n=end@c-67-164-177-134.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:23.46 | Gryphen | if someone could answer that, they would have said the answer by now i would imagine |
| 02:23.58 | norganna | i would be surprised if it's actually static |
| 02:24.16 | norganna | i suspect they would continually tweak them |
| 02:24.59 | Miravlix | No matter what it is, we will figure it out, it will just take some work, so why keep it a secret? |
| 02:25.21 | norganna | lol |
| 02:25.27 | me | well i've been trying off and on for a year.. |
| 02:36.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-171-180.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 02:51.53 | zeeg | can someone get me the last spell ID from 1.10.1 |
| 02:52.38 | me | stop using my name |
| 02:53.46 | Kirov | "me" - don't have it in your whois then. =) |
| 02:55.06 | zeeg | i will love whoever does it for me |
| 02:55.07 | zeeg | :( |
| 02:55.29 | Kirov | zeeg - what do you want? |
| 02:55.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=Wobin@221.221.32.237) |
| 02:55.57 | zeeg | to know the last spell ID from 1.10.1 |
| 02:56.13 | Kirov | from what? |
| 02:56.19 | zeeg | Spell.DBC |
| 02:56.27 | Kirov | ah |
| 02:56.51 | zeeg | and the last itemset id >< |
| 03:00.27 | Kirov | hmm |
| 03:00.44 | Kirov | MyWarCraftStudio is unhappy with the Spell.dbc |
| 03:01.01 | zeeg | >< |
| 03:01.05 | zeeg | i have an exe that turns it into csv |
| 03:01.30 | Kirov | may I have it? |
| 03:01.37 | zeeg | www.wowguru.com/DBCtoCSV.zip |
| 03:01.45 | zeeg | just run that in the dir the DBCs are in |
| 03:06.20 | norganna | is that the one that used to be on the wowmapviewer wiki? |
| 03:09.17 | norganna | i've got one that's a derivative of it. I had to make some changes tho, it'd get some lines wrong. |
| 03:09.48 | norganna | i also had to make some improvements to the field-type checking |
| 03:10.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-171-180.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:10.47 | Kirov | 28532 |
| 03:11.37 | Kirov | 520 for the set |
| 03:12.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:21.03 | zeeg | appreciate kirov |
| 03:21.09 | zeeg | norganna, actually nicoli used to work for us |
| 03:21.11 | zeeg | and made this |
| 03:21.37 | Kirov | zeeg - do you know what happened to the wow _ viewer stuff? |
| 03:21.44 | zeeg | their wiki? |
| 03:21.47 | zeeg | theyhad to take it down |
| 03:21.49 | zeeg | blizzard im sure |
| 03:21.51 | zeeg | thats why i started ours |
| 03:22.03 | Kirov | well, the entire project disapeared |
| 03:22.08 | Iriel | So you can have yours taken down too? 8-) |
| 03:22.08 | zeeg | ah ya im not sure |
| 03:22.11 | zeeg | i told the guy to contact the guy |
| 03:22.12 | zeeg | Iriel, nah |
| 03:22.15 | zeeg | they were hosted by sf.net |
| 03:22.18 | zeeg | so its a whole dif thing |
| 03:22.27 | zeeg | we can actually fight it :) |
| 03:22.33 | zeeg | i doubt blizzard would try to dmca us on this |
| 03:23.32 | norganna | it's mainly why I moved from SF to my own hosting |
| 03:24.05 | norganna | i was doing a lot of stuff that's not kosher with their terms of use. |
| 03:24.41 | zeeg | ok |
| 03:24.43 | zeeg | im generating the update pages |
| 03:24.46 | zeeg | ya |
| 03:25.42 | Miravlix | Heh, find some national show about Internet back in 1996 |
| 03:29.31 | Miravlix | Netscape, RealPlayer from back then when the video revolution started on the net. |
| 03:30.11 | Tain | RealPlayer screwed themselves royally, they had the best video compression/quality ratio for the low-bandwidth web. |
| 03:31.06 | Kirov | They bought ON2 recently |
| 03:31.15 | Kirov | Well, not recently. |
| 03:31.47 | Kirov | But for a while ON2 had some of the best video compression, but media player caught up for the most part. |
| 03:32.04 | Miravlix | So funny how they couldn't figure out how to say web addresses back then |
| 03:32.48 | Kirov | ON2 stuff is still cool because it holds 4 different bit rate videos on the server for a single video and changes the video content based on what the latency from the client is. |
| 03:33.48 | Tain | Oh I forgot to put on The Daily Show, Ted Kennedy was on tonight. Good thing for dvr! |
| 03:33.56 | Kirov | Windows Media has it's play for 5 seconds, buffering 80% ... buffering 60% ... buffering 5% ... buffering 5% joy |
| 03:34.11 | Kirov | Or it goes to 1 frame every 20 seconds |
| 03:34.18 | Miravlix | So sad RP killed themself |
| 03:34.31 | Miravlix | Atleast RP works everywhere. |
| 03:34.42 | Tain | That's just settings though. RealPlayer was the worst for its default buffering settings. |
| 03:34.56 | zeeg | i need |
| 03:34.59 | zeeg | 1.10.2's version # |
| 03:35.02 | zeeg | and then ill have the page up |
| 03:35.31 | Kirov | The RealPlayer program was just hideous |
| 03:35.32 | zeeg | oh wait |
| 03:36.14 | zeeg | http://www.wowguru.com/patches/patch-1-10-2/spells.html |
| 03:36.36 | Tain | It was just the registration nonsense that was the worst, you couldn't get away from it no matter what you did it kept asking you for information. |
| 03:36.54 | Kirov | iCoke?! |
| 03:38.11 | norganna | and they would change the website every week or so so you couldn't find the "free" version |
| 03:51.11 | Tain | This is seriously one of the funniest things I've seen in a long, long time. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hw1ndtcAl4Y |
| 03:57.08 | me | lol |
| 05:19.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix_ (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:55.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elviso (n=Kenman@66-90-143-73.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 06:13.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@202-180-108-203.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 06:13.44 | Tem|Sleep | Iriel: you around? |
| 06:13.49 | Iriel | I am |
| 06:13.56 | zespri_work | Cairenn |
| 06:14.01 | Tem|Sleep | why would loadstring fail? |
| 06:14.14 | Iriel | Syntax error in code |
| 06:14.25 | Iriel | you'll get the error as the 2nd arg |
| 06:14.26 | Tem|Sleep | loadstring(string.dump(function()...end)) |
| 06:14.39 | Tem|Sleep | "invalid control character near char(27)) |
| 06:14.40 | Iriel | string.dump doesn't work for some things |
| 06:14.40 | Tem|Sleep | " |
| 06:14.46 | Tem|Sleep | like? |
| 06:14.51 | Iriel | anything with upvalues |
| 06:14.58 | Iriel | though possibly slouken's disabled binary loadstring |
| 06:15.14 | Tem|Sleep | that would make me a sad panda |
| 06:15.38 | Tem|Sleep | does the global env count as an upvalue? |
| 06:15.45 | Iriel | no |
| 06:16.06 | Tem|Sleep | so, calling a global function would be OK? |
| 06:16.20 | Iriel | Yes |
| 06:16.28 | Iriel | But I see what you mean |
| 06:16.40 | Iriel | that does lead me to suspect the worst as far as loadstring's abilities are concerned |
| 06:16.44 | Iriel | Sounds like a forum post is in order |
| 06:16.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:17.13 | Iriel | I'm measuring the size of lua strings instead |
| 06:17.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@213.221.117.211) |
| 06:17.15 | Tem|Sleep | loadstring(string.dump( function()ChatFrame1:AddMessage("test")end)) |
| 06:17.19 | Tem|Sleep | that fails |
| 06:17.34 | Iriel | I tried function() return 1; end |
| 06:17.36 | Iriel | and that failed too |
| 06:17.39 | Tem|Sleep | bah |
| 06:17.45 | Iriel | thus my "I see what you mean" 8-) |
| 06:17.51 | Tem|Sleep | I was hoping to use it to do nifty nifty things |
| 06:18.47 | Tem|Sleep | I'm about to pass out so would you do the honors? |
| 06:19.27 | s|loup | hi |
| 06:21.03 | Iriel | Tem|Sleep : Posted |
| 06:21.07 | Tem|Sleep | thanks |
| 06:21.09 | Iriel | By the way, for anyone who cares... |
| 06:21.18 | Tem|Sleep | vdump? |
| 06:21.21 | Iriel | string memory use = length of string + NUL + 16 |
| 06:21.31 | Iriel | so "hello" is 22 bytes |
| 06:21.32 | Tem|Sleep | fascinating |
| 06:22.11 | Iriel | sleep well |
| 06:29.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0708.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:30.19 | Elkano | good (whatever) :) |
| 06:43.13 | Iriel | heh |
| 06:45.36 | Elkano | Iriel, do you know of an emblib for events that works like Metrognome (so I don't have to create my own onevent frame)? |
| 06:45.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix_ (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 06:46.02 | Iriel | I dont, no, but that doesn't mean there isn't one out there, I dont keep track of the existing libs all that well |
| 07:08.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 07:15.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@67.63.84.74) |
| 07:32.58 | Elkano | hmmm... I've been looking through us blue posts... anyone knows what the 'awsome' 1.12 bg feature will be? cross server bgs? |
| 07:34.31 | Iriel | no idea, but I only read 1 forum 8-) |
| 07:35.49 | Elkano | post is http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=7674052&tmp=1#post7674052 |
| 07:53.17 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=364596 |
| 07:53.33 | Iriel | A fun read for the resource concerned |
| 07:55.03 | Iriel | And further proof that a closure based triplet uses less memory than a 3 entry table |
| 07:55.17 | Iriel | Sorry, I meant MORE memory 8-) |
| 07:55.23 | id` | fun |
| 07:55.23 | id` | :p |
| 07:55.26 | id` | *read* |
| 07:57.01 | Elkano | well, cs people have a strange kind of humor :) |
| 07:57.17 | id` | counterstrike? |
| 07:57.24 | krka | nice thread Iriel |
| 07:57.59 | Iriel | Figured you'd like it krka 8-) |
| 07:58.07 | Iriel | Anyway, it's WAY past the time i was supposed to be in bed |
| 07:58.09 | krka | heh |
| 07:58.15 | krka | good night Iriel :) |
| 08:01.11 | krka | damn it, was gonna ask something but he left :/ |
| 08:06.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no) |
| 08:10.53 | zespri | Iriel, triplet? |
| 08:11.52 | zespri | uh |
| 08:11.55 | zespri | right |
| 08:12.01 | zespri | left he is |
| 08:12.43 | Elkano | id, computer sience :) |
| 08:13.46 | id` | Elkano: :p |
| 08:14.31 | Elkano | but, well, for counter strike it would have been true, too ^^ |
| 08:14.39 | id` | hehe |
| 08:20.23 | me | Assertion Failed! |
| 08:20.23 | me | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.23 | me | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.24 | me | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.24 | me | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.24 | me | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.47 | Elkano | nice :) |
| 08:20.59 | Elkano | mac? |
| 08:22.05 | me | ya |
| 08:22.19 | me | nice think is the mac assertions don't crash the client |
| 08:24.44 | Elkano | well, possible on win, too |
| 08:30.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 08:35.49 | Elviso | Elkano, re: "'awsome' 1.12 bg feature" |
| 08:36.00 | Elviso | I'm willing to bet it's cross-server BG's |
| 08:40.59 | krka | hmm... |
| 08:41.08 | krka | then they'd have to remove trading inside BG |
| 08:41.21 | krka | not that big of a deal i suppose |
| 08:41.45 | Kalroth | krka: I kinda hope they forget that part :P |
| 08:42.02 | Elviso | or just check if Cvar("PLayerRealm") you == trading target |
| 08:42.15 | krka | yeah |
| 08:42.22 | krka | they won't miss it |
| 08:42.26 | krka | i can almost guarantee it |
| 08:42.38 | krka | that should be the biggest part of delaying cross server bg |
| 08:42.42 | Kalroth | "[1. AV General] [PotionSeller] Selling the cheapest potions for all 16 realms!" |
| 08:43.01 | Elviso | oh man |
| 08:43.10 | Elviso | how bad would that suck |
| 08:43.26 | Kalroth | btwe |
| 08:43.29 | Kalroth | err, btw* |
| 08:43.31 | Kalroth | http://www.gamingsteve.com/archives/2006/04/massive_battleg_1.php |
| 08:44.16 | Elviso | I believe that's all just speculation based on the server pruchases |
| 08:45.06 | Elviso | but really, they've been working on x-server bg's for awhile, and I for one can't think of any other "big changes" that they could've been working onm |
| 08:45.15 | Elviso | s/onm/on/ |
| 09:02.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:09.45 | krka | reduced waiting times... yay! |
| 09:10.24 | zeeg | hahaha |
| 09:10.25 | zeeg | http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/nyry-humain-skin-and-class-id1243/ |
| 09:13.33 | krka | lame |
| 09:13.41 | krka | is chuck a class or a race? |
| 09:13.50 | krka | the screenshot doesn't say |
| 09:14.11 | zenzelezz | apparently he's a "walker" |
| 09:14.12 | krka | obviously a fake too, wrong font in the chuckbox |
| 09:14.26 | krka | the race says human, not Chuck |
| 09:15.01 | zenzelezz | despite common belief, Chuck is a human |
| 09:16.11 | krka | but why is there a chuck icon to the left under the races then? |
| 09:16.13 | krka | makes no sense |
| 09:16.18 | krka | either it's a race or not |
| 09:17.04 | zenzelezz | true, they seem to have missed that |
| 09:19.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0708.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 09:50.42 | Maldivia | wohoo... cross-realms BGs in 1.12 :) |
| 09:51.53 | wereHamster | Tem|Sleep, are you still around? |
| 09:56.32 | s|loup | where did you read it maldivia? |
| 09:56.41 | id` | Maldivia: OMG really? |
| 09:56.43 | id` | ownage |
| 09:56.49 | id` | finslly some players in the bg |
| 09:56.52 | id` | finally* |
| 09:56.55 | Maldivia | on 2 different gaming sites so far, but still looking for anything official from Blizzard |
| 09:56.55 | Kalroth | still a rumour, but yeah :) |
| 09:57.18 | Maldivia | neither of the gaming sites had any links :| |
| 09:57.34 | Kalroth | on the other hand, Blizzard claims to have fixed mounts in Undercity the last 4 patches or so :) |
| 09:57.57 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 09:59.59 | s|loup | i know that anywhere in the forums there was a post that some blue said they are thinking about it but i didnt understand how this should correct the prportion of ally/horde |
| 10:00.39 | Maldivia | doesn't correct the proportions, but you wont have to wait an hour for an AV to start |
| 10:01.19 | Maldivia | you might have to wait an hour to get in once it started though, if there are 100 horde waiting, and no alliance :) |
| 10:01.20 | s|loup | hm its the same problem if you have 10k : 5k as if you have 200:100 ;) |
| 10:01.57 | wereHamster | not really if a game requires 150 players on each side |
| 10:02.33 | Elkano | security lectures are fun :) |
| 10:02.49 | s|loup | the question is: will the groups of one site build up by players of different realms? |
| 10:03.00 | Maldivia | the problem is, if there are 10 horde and alliance in queue to start an AV, they still need a few more, for the instance to actually be started, but if there are 16 servers in the same pool, there's a good change there'll be 16x as many waiting, henve 160 horde and alliance, enough to start 4 instances |
| 10:03.06 | s|loup | or just on realm agoinst another? |
| 10:04.48 | Maldivia | hmm, I'm looking forward to seeing how they'll handle in-BG trades and such... if they're linking 16 realms togeather to share the same BG, they'll have to share the same DB aswell |
| 10:05.19 | id` | or disable trade in the BG |
| 10:05.19 | wereHamster | and name collisions.. |
| 10:05.27 | id` | oh yeah, name collisions |
| 10:05.37 | wereHamster | 'Shag of Arthas' |
| 10:05.58 | Maldivia | and what about: /g Ohh wow, I'm in AV with a warrior that has killed C'thun, he has [Ãœber Weapon] --- disconnected, item not loaded on server |
| 10:06.04 | id` | wereHamster: you are shag? |
| 10:07.11 | Maldivia | shagadelic baby... |
| 10:08.29 | wereHamster | yes.. I'm Shag |
| 10:09.05 | wereHamster | s/I'm/I'm aka / |
| 10:10.41 | zenzelezz | the annoying thing about being a warrior is that people seem to think I'm in trouble and "help" when I still have enough HP left to finish up alone... poor cloth wearers |
| 10:10.53 | Elkano | Maldivia, that's an interesting point... |
| 10:13.57 | s|loup | i see a vision of junk market in battlegrounds |
| 10:14.36 | s|loup | trading threw realms per battleground, what a deal ^^ |
| 10:24.10 | Maldivia | hmm... cross realm AH? |
| 10:24.44 | zenzelezz | I'd think that could become too vast/slow |
| 10:24.50 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 10:25.15 | Maldivia | but I don't really see a problem in trading item cross-realm |
| 10:35.53 | wereHamster | the chinese farmers would love it ;) |
| 10:36.36 | s|loup | hihi |
| 10:36.57 | Elkano | well, it would ruin ecconomy on new realms |
| 10:41.40 | Maldivia | Elkano: yes, but I doubt Blizzard would be so stupid, to add new realms to a BG-pool with old realms |
| 10:41.59 | Maldivia | would also cause a major imbalance in the gear people potentially have in the BGs |
| 10:42.08 | zenzelezz | what, you don't want greens fighting purples? |
| 10:43.00 | Maldivia | And as much as I know that skill > gear... a rogue with a Death's Sting will still be more deadly than one with a Widowmaker |
| 10:47.46 | Elkano | true, but that's also in place for existing realms (but not that bad) and count's mainly for 60th bgs. |
| 10:48.24 | Elkano | Maybe Blizzard finds a way to rate equipment + skill in order to create more challanging ngs for these levels |
| 10:48.26 | Maldivia | well, people that make new chars / alt on existing old realms should know what they are up againsty |
| 10:50.04 | Elkano | but I think when they add crossserver bgs they should handle all bgs equally and maybe also use the avg item level to group the players |
| 10:50.33 | Elkano | this way, skill will be the key |
| 10:50.44 | zenzelezz | sounds like a good idea |
| 11:00.37 | zenzelezz | hm... got two Traveler's Backpacks off of Desert Rumblers today :o |
| 11:30.12 | Maldivia | ko |
| 11:30.15 | Maldivia | ok* |
| 12:19.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 12:19.21 | Josh_Borke | morning |
| 12:20.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@64.53.90.109) |
| 12:27.19 | Kalroth | morning Josh |
| 12:50.44 | Josh_Borke | yay, my guild took down razorgore last night |
| 12:53.34 | Kalroth | Grats :D |
| 12:59.21 | Josh_Borke | i wasn't there for the attempts though :-( makes me sad :-( |
| 13:01.02 | krka | i really need to find myself a guild |
| 13:01.03 | krka | :/ |
| 13:01.10 | krka | pug-instancing is becoming harder and harder |
| 13:02.25 | Osagasu | Cause all the smart people are already taken |
| 13:02.26 | Osagasu | >.< |
| 13:02.46 | krka | i am offended by that! |
| 13:02.58 | Osagasu | You know what I mean |
| 13:03.08 | Osagasu | Besides, who said you were a smart person"? |
| 13:03.35 | Osagasu | >.> |
| 13:11.25 | krka | i do! all the time! |
| 13:22.17 | Kalroth | lol |
| 13:23.45 | Kalroth | krka: you should have it easy in a guild, pug-instancing is harder than clearing MC/BWL :) |
| 13:25.02 | krka | well, i have been in some good groups |
| 13:25.06 | krka | most are crap :/ |
| 13:25.43 | Kalroth | you end up in the wrong pugs then |
| 13:25.56 | Kalroth | I sometime join a pug after a hard day in BWL/AQ40 |
| 13:26.11 | Kalroth | nothing like training a herd of newbies through UBRS, only to wipe over and over! |
| 13:26.26 | Kalroth | krka: which server do you play on? |
| 13:27.04 | krka | venture co |
| 13:27.15 | Kalroth | pvprp? |
| 13:27.29 | id` | yes |
| 13:27.49 | Kalroth | no wonder then |
| 13:28.35 | Kalroth | there's two kinds of people on pvp/rp servers; 1) the people who likes to rp, but doesn't know how to play 1) the people who likes to annoy rp'ers, but doens't know how to play |
| 13:30.06 | id` | peopler are less hardcore |
| 13:30.10 | id` | and friendlier |
| 13:30.13 | id` | thats all |
| 13:30.13 | id` | :p |
| 13:30.27 | Kalroth | no, I'm pretty sure that I'm correct! |
| 13:31.03 | krka | yeah, i am kinda the category that id suggests |
| 13:31.37 | Kalroth | friendly newbie? |
| 13:32.49 | krka | friendly casual |
| 13:32.54 | krka | don |
| 13:32.59 | krka | 't consider myself newbie |
| 13:34.04 | Kalroth | surely you must know that the newbie vs elite scale is calculated by the amount of green/blue/purplZ items you got |
| 13:38.03 | krka | that's casual vs hardcore :P |
| 13:38.45 | Kalroth | oh |
| 13:39.04 | Kalroth | I guess I need to do more research to be able to troll correctly |
| 13:42.58 | id` | you need more leet speak |
| 13:42.59 | id` | like |
| 13:43.31 | id` | LALALAL!!!!!111eonelenvetyenowtotrhee |
| 13:43.41 | Kalroth | that's leet speak now? :/ |
| 13:43.55 | id` | part of the internet meme |
| 13:44.17 | Kalroth | 3y3 r3membr d4 g00d 0ld d4yz wh3r3 th1z uz3d 2 b l33t! |
| 13:44.39 | Kalroth | Well infact those days weren't that good |
| 13:45.04 | id` | hayday of counterstrike cheating is over |
| 13:45.06 | id` | that was 1.3 |
| 13:45.13 | id` | :P |
| 13:45.13 | Kalroth | I eVEN rEMEMBER wHEN tHIS wAS cOOL |
| 13:45.29 | id` | i wish my lawn was emo |
| 13:45.33 | id` | so it would cut itself |
| 13:45.38 | id` | badoom tisch |
| 13:45.39 | id` | :P |
| 13:45.43 | Kalroth | but that was back using bbs' over dialups, leeching amiga software! |
| 13:45.59 | id` | whats brown and sticky? |
| 13:46.02 | id` | a stick |
| 13:46.07 | id` | badoom tisch |
| 13:46.08 | Kalroth | .. |
| 13:46.15 | id` | whats a boomerang that doesnt work? |
| 13:46.16 | id` | a stick |
| 13:46.19 | id` | badoom tisch |
| 13:46.31 | id` | two drums and a set of cymbals fall off a cliff... |
| 13:46.38 | id` | badoom tisch badoom tisch badoom tisch! |
| 13:47.13 | id` | aaanyway back 2 work like woa lOLOALALALALAL |
| 13:48.25 | krka | THiS iS COOL |
| 13:48.43 | krka | ooh... a coworker just told me he's also talking to you Kalroth |
| 13:48.51 | krka | small world |
| 13:48.52 | Kalroth | Yeah :) |
| 13:48.54 | Kalroth | small world indeed |
| 13:48.59 | Kalroth | he plays on the same server as me |
| 13:49.04 | krka | so i hear |
| 13:49.08 | id` | :o |
| 13:49.13 | krka | i should reroll it too i guess |
| 13:49.16 | Kalroth | he mentioned some hacker who got his addon banned! |
| 13:49.23 | id` | omg |
| 13:49.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 13:49.56 | krka | hides from what? |
| 13:50.37 | krka | everyone in the office is on that server except me :P |
| 13:51.27 | Kalroth | krka: well I told him that you're an outcast since you play on an pvp/rp server |
| 13:51.55 | krka | hah |
| 13:52.10 | krka | i only play to test my work anyway :P |
| 13:52.23 | Kalroth | no wonder you end up in crappy pugs then :) |
| 13:52.46 | krka | true |
| 13:53.07 | krka | i guess i'm kind of a hazard, seeing as i test my addons inside instances |
| 13:53.15 | krka | more often than not they break in the middle of something important |
| 13:53.20 | Kalroth | haha |
| 13:53.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 13:54.04 | Kalroth | "[noobPaladin] says: Ok! Pulling the boss with consecrate!" |
| 13:54.18 | Josh_Borke | ... |
| 13:54.36 | Kalroth | Josh_Borke: aww, I didn't mean it like that! |
| 13:54.50 | Kalroth | Josh_Borke: You can DPS too, yes you can! |
| 13:55.11 | Josh_Borke | indeed! but it takes way too much work to be good at DPS :-P |
| 13:55.20 | Josh_Borke | so much easier to just heal and buff and cleanse |
| 13:55.37 | Kalroth | That's the spirit! |
| 13:56.00 | wereHamster | now also displaying memory consumption and how many timed the GC was triggered: http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8826/lp2dv.png |
| 13:56.33 | Kalroth | looks nice :) |
| 13:59.20 | Josh_Borke | sexy |
| 13:59.24 | malreth | wiggle |
| 14:01.00 | krka | i _dont_ want to see how much my indentation-thingy performs in that test |
| 14:01.22 | wereHamster | the sort functions probably need more love.. |
| 14:01.45 | krka | why? |
| 14:01.51 | krka | mergeSort FTW! |
| 14:02.58 | wereHamster | no.. I mean what to take into account.. when sorting by memory usage and the memory usage is same, what to compare next? GC? AvgTime? |
| 14:03.53 | wereHamster | the sorting is done in table.sort() .. |
| 14:04.06 | Kalroth | ~lart malreth |
| 14:04.41 | malreth | i'm never speaking to purl. he's too violent. >_< |
| 14:05.13 | zenzelezz | does he know the MS-DOS one? |
| 14:07.53 | wereHamster | InspectFrame_LoadUI() eats 100kbytes of memory O.o |
| 14:08.18 | wereHamster | ChatEdit_SendText() 45kbytes |
| 14:10.19 | zenzelezz | how do you find such stats? |
| 14:10.55 | Josh_Borke | hrm, what do all the columns mean? |
| 14:11.01 | Josh_Borke | usage/memory/gc |
| 14:14.57 | zenzelezz | this "Uther's Strength" is one of the funnier things I've looted |
| 14:16.08 | wereHamster | GC == garbage collector |
| 14:16.16 | wereHamster | and mem = memory per call |
| 14:16.23 | wereHamster | .. in kbytes |
| 14:16.42 | krka | i am pondering what to do with my indenter... either i make it an embedded lib and let other addons use it, or i can make it a standalone addon that hooks other addons editboxes |
| 14:16.49 | krka | or both |
| 14:17.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-172.handshake.de) |
| 14:20.04 | Josh_Borke | embedded |
| 14:26.07 | krka | but wouldn't people also want do just be able to download an addon that automatically "fixes" tinypad, luaslinger, et.c. |
| 14:27.32 | Josh_Borke | morning Cairenn |
| 14:27.39 | Cairenn | morning Josh :) |
| 14:27.40 | zenzelezz | greetings |
| 14:27.47 | Cairenn | and zenzelezz |
| 14:28.33 | Kalroth | morning sleepyhead! |
| 14:29.52 | zenzelezz | this is just wrong... someone asked me if I was looking for a raid guild... while standing next to me. Me, still in a lot of level-40 req plate o_O |
| 14:30.33 | Kalroth | zenzelezz: maybe they're low on warriors? :p |
| 14:30.43 | zenzelezz | still sad :p |
| 14:31.09 | Cairenn | hey Kalroth :) |
| 14:31.23 | zenzelezz | should be getting my Enchanted Thorium helm+leggings... as soon as I've done these 16 Arcanite transmutes x.x |
| 14:32.00 | Kalroth | we recruited a warrior a few months ago, he got 4 might pieces on his first MC run |
| 14:32.16 | Kalroth | then another 4-5 wrath pieces over 3 BWL runs |
| 14:32.23 | Kalroth | no need for that enchanted stuff :) |
| 14:32.36 | zenzelezz | I'd be happy just to get to go to MC/BWL |
| 14:33.04 | zenzelezz | never been in anything higher than UBRS |
| 14:33.09 | Kalroth | >< |
| 14:33.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@202-180-108-112.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 14:33.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:33.45 | zenzelezz | and the Enchanted Thorium will help in the lower instances, while getting some decent items and doing the attunement quests :) |
| 14:34.01 | zenzelezz | not to mention I won't be running around with level-40 req items... that hurts your ego at 60 |
| 14:34.36 | Kalroth | Aye, you could do it the "true" route, UBRS/etc -> ZG/AQ20 -> MC -> BWL/AQ40 |
| 14:35.01 | Kalroth | it must suck to get into a farming guild and then miss the fun of learning MC/BWL |
| 14:35.03 | Josh_Borke | psh, my guild can't clear ZG or AQ20 and we've downed rag :- |
| 14:35.04 | Josh_Borke | :-( |
| 14:35.27 | Kalroth | although there was some times that I wouldn't mind skipping the weekly UBRS/Strat runs :p |
| 14:35.33 | zenzelezz | I'm mostly hoping to see either MC or BWL... not so much for loot but because they seem fun |
| 14:36.23 | Kalroth | MC was fun back when we started doing it |
| 14:36.33 | Kalroth | "onoes, dual Firelord pull, ruuuun!" |
| 14:37.10 | Josh_Borke | lol |
| 14:37.12 | Josh_Borke | we still do that :-( |
| 14:43.43 | Tain | My favorite parts of MC were always, "Don't stand too close to that door or you'll aggro more core hounds." |
| 14:44.18 | Tain | Someone always did it. Always. |
| 14:44.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 14:46.49 | Kalroth | Tain: haha |
| 14:47.15 | malreth | dual firelords aren't a problem. :) |
| 14:47.45 | wereHamster | Tain, what door? |
| 14:47.48 | malreth | it's dual molten destroyer, ancient core hound, firelord, garr pulls that are a problem |
| 14:48.42 | Kalroth | We've had two golden moments |
| 14:48.49 | Kalroth | 1) Pulling Geddon + Shazz at the same time |
| 14:48.55 | Kalroth | 2) Leaving our MT at Majordomo while the rest of the raid went back to Magdamar to dowse (we forgot!), which then made Majordomo spawn, kill our MT and then run aaaaaaall the way back to rip the rest of the raid a new one |
| 14:49.01 | Tain | Oh hell I dunno wereHamster, I quit raiding a year ago. |
| 14:49.22 | Josh_Borke | Kalroth: lol |
| 14:49.33 | Kalroth | I think 2 people made it to zone entrance and zoned out :p |
| 14:51.27 | Kalroth | best part was when the MT said "Doh! Majordomo just killed me! And now he left, I wonder where he's going.. " |
| 14:51.58 | Kalroth | We got back out on the other side of the whelps before we put 2 and 2 together |
| 14:52.09 | Kalroth | Well that and Domo showed up :P |
| 14:53.50 | wereHamster | rofl |
| 14:54.54 | malreth | ouch |
| 14:56.18 | Tain | Many a raid were saved by a feigned person with Goblin Jumper Cables, let me tell you. |
| 14:56.33 | malreth | once while pulling shaz, he blinked over to one of our groups but no one ran him back to the center... so he sploded and wiped out two of our groups... we kept on fighting as no wipe was called. |
| 14:56.50 | malreth | finally killed shaz with like about 6 people left standing |
| 14:57.21 | Kalroth | Personally I'd prefer healers in one group, mages/locks/hunters in another group and then the rest in a third group |
| 14:57.32 | Kalroth | it gets so much easier once the mage/lock/hunter group is dead |
| 15:00.15 | Kalroth | hehe |
| 15:01.30 | Josh_Borke | lol |
| 15:04.07 | Kalroth | :( |
| 15:04.08 | krka | i have a hunter and a mage |
| 15:04.09 | krka | :( |
| 15:04.22 | Kalroth | Oh, I wasn't wrong then! |
| 15:04.29 | krka | hmpf |
| 15:07.16 | Kalroth | Sorry, but I've been raiding for a year now, mages, warlocks and hunters hold a special place in my heart! |
| 15:07.34 | krka | heh |
| 15:07.46 | krka | i'm gonna roll priest or warrior next time |
| 15:07.52 | krka | should be easier to find groups |
| 15:07.56 | Kalroth | Warrior gud! |
| 15:13.32 | Kalroth | home better! |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:22.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@dhcp-128-83-49-105.sp.utexas.edu) |
| 15:23.02 | Wobin_ | I tell you priests are great for finding groups =P |
| 15:23.10 | Wobin_ | I have to filter my requests =P |
| 15:23.22 | Wobin_ | (Of course it helps if you actually heal well =P) |
| 15:23.43 | Josh_Borke | so far i've only been asked to group 5-6 times |
| 15:23.46 | Josh_Borke | but i'm only lvl 45 |
| 15:26.28 | zenzelezz | <Wobin_> (Of course it helps if you actually heal well =P) <-- that's just repeat-requests, the people who don't know still invite you! |
| 15:26.47 | Wobin_ | true =) |
| 15:26.58 | Wobin_ | Also the fact that my character combination is a rarity |
| 15:27.02 | Wobin_ | dwarf priestess! |
| 15:27.38 | Tain | Good chuckle about the supposedly "leaked" noteds for 1.11 |
| 15:27.40 | Tain | http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3736 |
| 15:28.21 | Elkano | tain, link? |
| 15:28.43 | Elkano | s/tain, link?/(nothing)/ |
| 15:42.34 | Wobin_ | hrm |
| 15:42.42 | Wobin_ | PutItemInBag() |
| 15:42.49 | Wobin_ | Can I use that to drop stuff into the bank? |
| 15:43.10 | Wobin_ | not the additional bankbags, but the mainbank itself |
| 15:47.54 | MentalPower | I think so, yes |
| 15:48.10 | MentalPower | the ID for the bank is currently -1 |
| 15:48.56 | MentalPower | but there's also a global that contins the bank slot |
| 15:48.57 | MentalPower | BANK_CONTAINER |
| 15:52.00 | Wobin_ | hum |
| 15:52.06 | Wobin_ | that'd be it.... I'll give that a try |
| 15:52.25 | Wobin_ | invalid bank slot =( |
| 15:52.46 | Wobin_ | er bag slot |
| 15:53.02 | MentalPower | you need to be at the bank BTW |
| 15:53.05 | Wobin_ | Ah... I'm looking for an inventory slot |
| 15:53.07 | Wobin_ | Well yes. |
| 15:53.12 | Wobin_ | That's a given |
| 15:53.25 | Wobin_ | which is currently 64-68 for bank bags |
| 15:53.33 | Wobin_ | er 69 |
| 15:54.25 | Wobin_ | oh bugger |
| 15:54.32 | Wobin_ | 40-63 |
| 15:54.38 | Wobin_ | I can't treat it as a 'bag' |
| 15:55.00 | Wobin_ | That's crap |
| 15:55.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:55.15 | MentalPower | PutItemInBag(ContainerIDToInventoryID(BANK_CONTAINER)) |
| 15:55.42 | Iriel | PutItemInMouth(FruitAndNutBarToBiteSizeChunk(4)) |
| 15:55.44 | Wobin_ | it's not looking for a bagid |
| 15:55.49 | Wobin_ | it's looking for an InventoryID |
| 15:55.55 | Wobin_ | er Inventory slot ID |
| 15:56.55 | Wobin_ | yeah =( |
| 15:57.06 | Wobin_ | I'd have to use 40-63 |
| 15:57.19 | MentalPower | the vContainerIDToInventoryID() function should give you the inventory ID |
| 15:57.25 | Wobin_ | which is highly inconveinient |
| 15:57.29 | Wobin_ | well yes. It's -1 |
| 15:57.37 | Wobin_ | Hm |
| 15:57.41 | MentalPower | no... |
| 15:57.45 | Wobin_ | Lemme try it |
| 15:57.50 | MentalPower | the ContinerID is -1 |
| 15:58.02 | MentalPower | I have no clue what the InventoryID is |
| 15:58.18 | MentalPower | but the function should convert it to the right number |
| 15:58.26 | Josh_Borke | later guys |
| 15:59.12 | MentalPower | later Josh|Lunch |
| 15:59.53 | Wobin_ | It returns an invalid bag slot |
| 16:01.45 | Wobin_ | it's returning 18... ? |
| 16:04.51 | Wobin_ | The problem, MP, is that there is no single inventory ID for the bank |
| 16:04.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 16:05.12 | Wobin_ | it's literally slot 40-63 |
| 16:05.32 | Wobin_ | So I can't treat it as any other inventory bag and drop stuff in |
| 16:08.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ComicSansMS (n=der_weih@p5497F548.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:08.47 | ComicSansMS | greetings everyone! |
| 16:08.58 | Kalroth | Hello my favorite font! |
| 16:09.25 | ComicSansMS | :) |
| 16:09.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:13.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Corrodias (n=no@th-242-251.rh.uwec.edu) |
| 16:14.22 | Corrodias | so, i wonder why this channel is set +r now |
| 16:15.25 | me | cause rw sucks |
| 16:15.32 | Corrodias | and what is rw? |
| 16:15.44 | me | a form of cd rewritable |
| 16:15.53 | Corrodias | that has nothing to do with channel modes |
| 16:15.57 | Elkano | maybe so you can safely query anyone in here I think |
| 16:15.58 | me | so? |
| 16:16.05 | Corrodias | so your response is irrelevant |
| 16:16.09 | me | so? |
| 16:16.11 | Kalroth | Corrodias: +r means that only registered people can join |
| 16:16.19 | Corrodias | that is the end of the reason chain, me |
| 16:16.24 | me | so? |
| 16:16.50 | Corrodias | Kalroth: i'm aware of the effect. i'm not aware of the reason for the change. |
| 16:16.58 | Kalroth | Codayus: It was set because of some kid figured out how to create multiple drones and flood channels. |
| 16:17.12 | Elkano | @me: hmmm... 1x Bambi Goreng pls ;) |
| 16:17.59 | zenzelezz | an empty Thorium Lockbox.. how fun |
| 16:18.45 | Kalroth | zenzelezz: grats! |
| 16:33.52 | Tain | Wow, Horde Auction House on Draka is one of the saddest I've come across. |
| 16:34.22 | Corrodias | eh? |
| 16:34.54 | Tain | For number of auctions, there's very little there. |
| 16:35.18 | Wobin_ | Bambi Goreng? |
| 16:35.34 | Wobin_ | Like Nasi Goreng but with deer meat? |
| 16:35.53 | Elkano | like nasi goreng but with noodles instead of rice |
| 16:38.04 | Wobin_ | oh |
| 16:38.09 | Wobin_ | I had disney flashbacks |
| 16:38.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth_ (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:38.52 | Elkano | makes the meal twice as good ;) |
| 16:39.58 | Iriel | The channel is +r because freenode have been having spam problems |
| 16:45.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth_ (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:46.56 | me | odd.. my bindings didn't show up |
| 16:51.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:02.59 | ComicSansMS | is there an easy way to get the rgb-values for a class' color (e.g. white for priests, purple for warlocks etc) when in a raid group? |
| 17:03.42 | wereHamster | RAID_CLASS_COLORS |
| 17:04.38 | wereHamster | RAID_CLASS_COLORS["HUNTER"].r/.g/.b |
| 17:04.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SlackerJer (i=slackerj@slacker.ucdavis.edu) |
| 17:05.27 | ComicSansMS | w00t, thanks exactly what i was looking for :) thanx |
| 17:06.54 | wereHamster | and take a look at UnitClass(), the second return value is the capitalized/internationalized class name |
| 17:13.56 | Elkano | and wrt raids: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetRaidRosterInfo (6th returned value fileName) |
| 17:17.25 | wereHamster | does anyone here play WoW under mac? |
| 17:18.02 | Elkano | so in here was a few hours ago, but can't remember his name :( |
| 17:18.18 | me | <-- |
| 17:18.50 | wereHamster | does WoW on mac use opengl or direct3d? |
| 17:19.00 | me | opengl |
| 17:19.01 | Adrine | I'm going to guess OpenGL |
| 17:19.08 | Corrodias | considering you -can't- use d3d... |
| 17:19.09 | Adrine | Since DirectX is a Windows technology |
| 17:19.51 | wereHamster | because.. opengl seems so slow down the game *a lot*.. especially when I have lots of frames on the screen |
| 17:20.08 | wereHamster | and I was wondering if that's the case in mac, too |
| 17:21.11 | wereHamster | d3d: from 60fps -> 40fps, opengl: from 60fps -> 20fps |
| 17:21.15 | Tain | For Windows it's partially because video card manufacturers put far more effort into optimizing D3D than OpenGL. |
| 17:21.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 17:21.28 | me | it's the only option in mac. And I would say the memory management in wow is particularly poor on the mac side and causes a lot of paging even with a lot of ram, which tends to be the worst slow down |
| 17:21.52 | Ktron | if I wanted to check whether I was in combat, what variable would I need to check? |
| 17:22.04 | me | as for frames being open that is a UI thing that causes slow down anywhere |
| 17:22.06 | wereHamster | PlayerFrame.inCombat :) |
| 17:22.07 | Tain | There have been a few reports from people who have run XP on an Intel Mac and found performance a lot bigger |
| 17:22.14 | Tain | Ktron: PLAYER_REGEN_DISABLED |
| 17:22.26 | Ktron | Tain, and that will be 1 or 0 depending, or something and nil? |
| 17:22.31 | Corrodias | my performance has increased... in size |
| 17:22.51 | Tain | Ktron: been a while since I looked at it, I just know that's what every combat mod I've ever looked at referenced. |
| 17:22.51 | Elkano | btw: should the WSG trinked be restoring health when in combat? |
| 17:23.04 | me | sure |
| 17:23.18 | Ktron | Tain, looks like nil or somethign else, thanks a bunch tain |
| 17:23.21 | Elkano | well, I think for me it doesn't :( |
| 17:23.34 | wereHamster | me, sure, but the difference between d3d and opengl is significant |
| 17:24.22 | me | on xp perhaps. it's not really an easy thing to compare on mac, now is it |
| 17:24.42 | Tain | There's a lot of differences in what's supported between the two. That's part (only part) of the problem is people still mostly code to D3D, and then make it OpenGL compatible. |
| 17:24.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 17:25.17 | me | right, but blizz hads a full mac department that develops side by side |
| 17:25.42 | me | so for their mac code to be d3d driven makes no sense |
| 17:26.01 | me | and the game didn't get ported over either, it was written for macs |
| 17:26.08 | Josh_Borke | Ktron: i believe PLAYER_REGEN_DISABLED is an event, isn't it? |
| 17:26.22 | MentalPower | yes it is an event |
| 17:26.26 | Tain | I can't speak for them of course, but a lot of times they simply rely on the graphics card drivers to handle it. |
| 17:26.29 | MentalPower | it fires when you enter combat |
| 17:26.53 | Josh_Borke | but combat doesn't include engaging auto-shot or auto-attack, just when you have some sort of 'aggro' |
| 17:26.54 | MentalPower | its counterpart PLAYER_REGEN_ENABLED fires when you leave combat |
| 17:27.01 | MentalPower | bingo |
| 17:27.12 | Tain | And it does make sense to code towards D3D since that's where the vast majority of your money-paying market is. |
| 17:27.14 | Ktron | something like /script if (PLAYER_REGEN_DISABLED) then CastSpellByName("Vanish") else CastSpellByName("Stealth") end is what I want to do |
| 17:27.46 | MentalPower | Ktron: its not a global, its an event |
| 17:27.52 | MentalPower | you can't use it like that |
| 17:27.58 | Ktron | okay, is there a variable that I can use like that? |
| 17:28.08 | Tain | Yeah that's right, sorry ktron I wasn't thinking about it. |
| 17:28.08 | MentalPower | well... |
| 17:28.13 | Josh_Borke | the default playerframe has PlayerFrame.inCombat or something like that |
| 17:28.27 | MentalPower | tht was killed a while ago Josh_Borke |
| 17:28.28 | Tain | You could set and keep track of your own variable. |
| 17:28.34 | MentalPower | I think theres a function that you can call |
| 17:28.43 | Josh_Borke | MentalPower: it was? what about the X that replaces your lvl? |
| 17:28.53 | Ktron | I just want to be able to tell someone a way to macro vanish/stealth |
| 17:28.54 | MentalPower | but it will give erroneous values if you're in auto-attack mode |
| 17:29.35 | Tain | Maybe you can do something like an IsUsable() on the Stealth key |
| 17:30.20 | Iriel | Hm, does UnitAffectingCombat("player") get close enough? |
| 17:30.21 | Tain | I don't know if IsUsable works on a check like that. |
| 17:30.24 | wereHamster | me, I wasn't talking about windows ;) |
| 17:30.36 | MentalPower | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitAffectingCombat |
| 17:30.50 | MentalPower | hehe, Iriel is faster than I am |
| 17:31.13 | Iriel | Only where it counts 8-) |
| 17:31.36 | me | well, if you want opengl to get better all you have to do is get a few game companies to adopt it for sole use |
| 17:31.58 | Tain | Yeah that went out the door with Windows 95. ;) |
| 17:32.34 | me | then if you want a gaming platform, get a pc |
| 17:32.46 | Tain | Or an XBox, or PS2, or ... |
| 17:32.49 | me | or buy an intelmac |
| 17:33.20 | me | not that anyone would use an intelmac as a purely game box |
| 17:33.37 | me | that'd eb dumb |
| 17:33.49 | Tain | It would make a good dual-booting box though. |
| 17:33.53 | me | right |
| 17:34.41 | me | my Bindings.xml still isn't working.. |
| 17:35.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 17:35.45 | me | i emailed sam. he says: "It's a total client bandwidth cap, not just chat data. I don't know what it is offhand though. It's some K/s over several seconds." |
| 17:36.04 | Iriel | We already knew that 8-) |
| 17:36.08 | me | yup.. |
| 17:36.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elviso (n=Kenman@66-90-143-73.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 17:39.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (n=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:39.29 | Kirov | allo cide, elviso |
| 17:39.41 | Cide | hi |
| 17:39.42 | Elviso | howdy :) |
| 17:39.48 | Gryphen | heya |
| 17:39.52 | Josh_Borke | hello cide, Elviso |
| 17:40.03 | Elviso | how's things |
| 17:42.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 17:43.03 | ckknight | hey all |
| 17:43.22 | Josh_Borke | hola ckknight |
| 17:43.28 | ckknight | why can't I join #wowi-lounge with an unregistered name, e.g. ckknight_/ |
| 17:43.31 | ckknight | ? |
| 17:43.39 | Josh_Borke | it's been made +r |
| 17:43.45 | Adrine | [09:38] Iriel: The channel is +r because freenode have been having spam problems |
| 17:43.47 | Josh_Borke | because freenode has had some problems with spam lately |
| 17:44.17 | wereHamster | so no more wereMouse|sleep ? |
| 17:44.18 | Kirov | just found a handy delay command for anyone who uses trillian |
| 17:44.30 | Kirov | You can still change your nick once you're in |
| 17:44.30 | Adrine | I think you just have to be registered to join |
| 17:44.41 | Adrine|TotallyUn | Tada. |
| 17:48.59 | Tain | uh oh MS Mobile & Embedded DevCon is in Vegas this year. AS if I needed another excuse to go back to Vegas. |
| 18:35.47 | Miravlix | The birds is singing, it's a bid dark outside, must be morning. |
| 18:36.08 | Miravlix | XXX is Full Position in Queue: #### Estimated time: X xxx |
| 18:36.31 | Miravlix | Ugh not morning, it's evening. :p |
| 18:36.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge groll (n=hepp@62.119.159.41) |
| 18:37.52 | Miravlix | It's cool not living by the clock, but sometimes it can get confusing. |
| 18:38.07 | Kirov | Miravlix - aye |
| 18:38.22 | Kirov | What's worse is when you then have to change back to living by the clock |
| 18:38.48 | Miravlix | Hasn't bothered me in the past. |
| 18:39.02 | Miravlix | You just get up in the monring and the day happends as you go to work. |
| 18:39.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.33 | Miravlix | The Palm keeps track of the time, I don't use a watch anymore |
| 18:40.07 | Miravlix | So not even there am I on the clock, I am on an alarm controled day |
| 18:41.23 | Miravlix | Never had a paid pr. hour job in my life, it's always been monthly |
| 18:46.56 | Miravlix | http://www.theregister.com/2006/04/20/e_snake/ |
| 18:47.01 | Miravlix | I need to buy more stuff online |
| 18:48.04 | Kirov | lol |
| 18:48.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth_ (n=malreth@dhcp-128-83-49-105.sp.utexas.edu) |
| 19:01.11 | ckknight | can you not have an OnMouseUp and an OnClick at the same time? |
| 19:01.23 | Kirov | sure |
| 19:01.32 | Kirov | I use both |
| 19:02.11 | Kirov | I use OnClick for my actual function handlers, and OnMouseUp for some visual stuff. |
| 19:02.34 | ckknight | doesn't want to work for me |
| 19:02.57 | ckknight | I can do one or the other, but not both |
| 19:03.07 | Kirov | pastebin? |
| 19:03.39 | ckknight | it's using SetScript |
| 19:03.41 | ckknight | pretty simple |
| 19:04.06 | Kirov | hmm, doesn't OnMouseUp and OnClick use different mouse handlers? |
| 19:04.46 | me | RightMouse and RightMouseUp |
| 19:05.49 | Kirov | this:RegisterForClicks("LeftButtonUp", "RightButtonUp"); |
| 19:07.16 | Kirov | I have a dragable minimap button that's using every mouse button related handler except OnMouseDown |
| 19:08.39 | Kirov | Actually, anyone else experienced the bug where registering a frame for both left and right drag can cause OnDragStop to never get fired? |
| 19:09.15 | Kirov | Drag with left button, click off the frame with the right button, OnDragStop never gets fired |
| 19:09.33 | Kirov | I had to use OnMouseUp instead |
| 19:09.57 | me | i hate the drag scripts, i always use the onmouse |
| 19:10.27 | me | only time you want to use the ondrag is if you also need to use onclick to cast a spell |
| 19:10.39 | Kirov | Shift (or another modifier)+click for moving? |
| 19:11.36 | me | doesn't matter, the drag scripts have an intentional lag which means you have to drag your cursor a certain amount which is usually off of small frames |
| 19:12.18 | me | and then you tend to have to readjust the anchor onupdate if you want it to actually be UNDER the mouse |
| 19:12.57 | Kirov | my minimap dragging script is just a dot off of the center of the minimap -> angle |
| 19:13.09 | Kirov | so moving it under the cursor isn't a big deal |
| 19:13.48 | Kirov | For everything else I fake moving frames and just have one dedicated hidden frame for dragging to get around having to deal with levels. |
| 19:13.58 | Kirov | But then, I'm dragging around buttons inside a big window. |
| 19:15.47 | me | i know all the tricks. I was the one who first wrote the rotating minimap code over a year ago |
| 19:16.35 | me | it's jsut that, tricks.. the default methods suck and I'm convinced were never intended to allow dragging |
| 19:17.13 | id` | uh can i do function foo({a,b,c}) print(a..b..c) end |
| 19:17.13 | id` | ? |
| 19:17.29 | me | not in lua |
| 19:17.41 | id` | then how do i adress the table |
| 19:18.09 | me | foo(t) print(t[1]..t[2]..t[3]) end |
| 19:18.20 | id` | righ |
| 19:18.21 | id` | t |
| 19:21.29 | me | why look, apples recycling old systems for free when you buy a new one |
| 19:22.11 | me | guess i'll dump this old 400mhz next time i buy a box |
| 19:28.16 | me | there you go: http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/21/ms.delay.wow.faster.on.xp/ |
| 19:31.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
| 19:39.15 | ckknight | does anyone know if you can make a slider show up from a dropdown menu? |
| 19:45.45 | Josh_Borke | wb Cairenn |
| 19:45.52 | Cairenn | thanks :) |
| 19:49.10 | me | ckknight> not without a hack |
| 19:49.11 | Josh_Borke | now approve my update :-P thanks :-D |
| 19:49.22 | ckknight | me, I'm okay with hacks |
| 19:50.22 | Josh_Borke | jk Cairenn :-) |
| 19:53.29 | Cairenn | Josh_Borke: no wai! |
| 19:55.31 | Josh_Borke | ckknight: you still here? |
| 19:55.59 | Josh_Borke | question about BabbleLib.Deformat() |
| 19:55.59 | ckknight | yep |
| 19:56.07 | ckknight | alright |
| 19:57.08 | Josh_Borke | i don't really understand how i would use it. for example: i'm parsing the combat events for things like "<somePlayer> begins to cast <some spell>". would i need to use Deformat for that? or provide my own localisation strings? |
| 19:57.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:58.22 | Elviso | hrmmm I did something yesterday my script really doesn't like....it's givng me alot of "attempt to index/call global ___ (a nil value)" |
| 20:00.36 | ckknight | Josh_Borke, that is a _perfect_ example to deformat |
| 20:01.05 | Josh_Borke | k, that's what i thought too, but how do i do it? |
| 20:01.15 | Josh_Borke | assume babble is my local reference :-) |
| 20:01.20 | ckknight | local name, spell = babble.Deformat(arg1, SPELLCASTOTHERSTART) |
| 20:01.58 | Josh_Borke | hm, is SPELLCASTOTHERSTART defined somewhere? (GlobalStrings.lua or something like that?) |
| 20:02.03 | ckknight | GlobalStrings.lua |
| 20:02.05 | ckknight | right |
| 20:02.17 | ckknight | and that will work in every language, without hassle |
| 20:02.21 | ckknight | and it's fast, cause it's curried |
| 20:03.05 | Josh_Borke | currently i'm doing 'for name,spell in string.gfind(arg1,<my string>)' |
| 20:03.15 | Iriel | Whee, I now have my ant scripts assigning version ID's to my embedded library code |
| 20:03.16 | ckknight | use Deformat, trust me |
| 20:03.36 | Josh_Borke | ko |
| 20:03.41 | Josh_Borke | btw, no bugs yet :-D |
| 20:03.45 | ckknight | hooray |
| 20:04.14 | ckknight | if you do local name, spell in string.find(arg, <my string>), then you have to make one for each language |
| 20:04.30 | ckknight | with Deformat and GlobalStrings.lua, it'll work for all languages |
| 20:04.33 | Josh_Borke | yea |
| 20:04.34 | ckknight | even if they use crazy stuff |
| 20:04.46 | ckknight | like "%2$d %1$d" |
| 20:05.01 | Josh_Borke | isn't there a way on wdn to view the whole file? |
| 20:05.11 | Josh_Borke | without downloading that is |
| 20:05.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
| 20:07.05 | Elkano | afaik no more |
| 20:07.32 | Tem | Iriel: :( |
| 20:09.03 | Iriel | Tem: Yeah, another plan dashed carelessly against the rocks of slouken's wow defenses |
| 20:09.21 | Tem | I was so looking forward to making a smart LoD manager |
| 20:09.49 | Iriel | Well, what does it prevent you from doing? |
| 20:10.03 | Tem | Theoretically, you can still do it |
| 20:10.22 | zenzelezz | LoD manager? |
| 20:10.23 | Tem | but you have to store the functions as a string |
| 20:10.27 | Tem | which is a pain |
| 20:10.37 | Iriel | true |
| 20:10.42 | Iriel | LoD = Load On Demand |
| 20:10.53 | Iriel | At least, I'm talking with Tem as it if stands for that 8-) |
| 20:11.02 | zenzelezz | oh, right... I was thinking of "Level of Detail" |
| 20:11.11 | Iriel | It might stand for Licorice or Death, in which case i'm in trouble |
| 20:11.19 | Tem | it's Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction, you noobs |
| 20:11.35 | Tem | (yes, I was talking about Load on Demand) |
| 20:12.35 | Iriel | Tem: Did you see http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=364596&p=1&tmp=1#post364596 |
| 20:12.36 | Iriel | ? |
| 20:12.45 | Tem | no, I just got back |
| 20:12.48 | Josh_Borke | yea tem, Lord of Destruction! |
| 20:12.54 | Tem | had a pretty big test today so I've been under a rock |
| 20:13.20 | Tem | Iriel: yeah I did see that last night (or this morning or something) |
| 20:13.58 | Iriel | Ok, back to work for me |
| 20:14.47 | Tem | hmm, something I hadn't thought of |
| 20:15.29 | Tem | the size-doubling effect of tables makes it increasingly hard to measure the actual impact on ui memory each file has |
| 20:15.38 | Tem | (as tables get larger) |
| 20:16.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 20:16.20 | Osagasu | Where was I... |
| 20:16.24 | Osagasu | Oh, yes... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! |
| 20:16.28 | Osagasu | T! |
| 20:16.50 | Osagasu | They're making a new Tiberium game. <3 |
| 20:18.18 | Iriel | Tem: That's true, mostly |
| 20:18.32 | Iriel | Tem: It's really the global environment and string table that are hard to measure |
| 20:18.53 | Iriel | And possibly the 'frame table' if such a beast exists |
| 20:19.03 | Tem | that's a scary thought |
| 20:20.24 | Iriel | Having collectgarbage() made my testing SO much easier this time than the last time I did size measurements |
| 20:20.35 | Tem | I can easily see that |
| 20:21.04 | Iriel | Oh, you'll appreciate this: |
| 20:21.07 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:21.09 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:23.36 | Tem | :) |
| 20:24.12 | Iriel | I've made an embeddable library with functions like |
| 20:24.18 | Iriel | :CollectAllGarbage() |
| 20:24.39 | Iriel | function lib:TimedRun(func, funcParam, funcIter, reps, results) |
| 20:24.43 | Iriel | function lib:MemRun(func, funcParam, funcIter, reps, results, noRelease) |
| 20:24.45 | Iriel | etc |
| 20:24.53 | Tem | MemRun? |
| 20:25.02 | Tem | oh |
| 20:25.03 | Iriel | Run a function and measure it's memory impact |
| 20:25.08 | Iriel | There' |
| 20:25.10 | Tem | took me a second |
| 20:25.13 | Iriel | There's also function lib:HighMemRun(func, funcParam, funcIter, reps, results) |
| 20:25.22 | Tem | still a little braindead from the statistics test I had today |
| 20:25.28 | Iriel | (Which is where gcdetect is used) |
| 20:25.57 | Iriel | that measures how much memory gets allocated during each run |
| 20:26.04 | Iriel | regardless of whether it ends up as garbage afterwards |
| 20:26.15 | Tem | how do things like the performance plugins for panel addons detect a gc? |
| 20:26.32 | Tem | surely they don't do anything as clever as a weakly valued table |
| 20:26.33 | Iriel | probably a change in the GC threshold |
| 20:26.56 | Tem | that's dirty |
| 20:27.04 | Iriel | that's mostly going to work |
| 20:27.39 | Wobin_ | okies, I need peoples opinions... I'm trying to implement bankstacking in MrPlow, in that it will move everything in your bags that matches items in your bank -to- your bank |
| 20:27.42 | Tem | *mostly* |
| 20:28.06 | Wobin_ | Now, should I go about this on a bag by bag method, only filling items into the same bags? |
| 20:28.23 | Wobin_ | Or just fill any matching item into whatever available bagspace? |
| 20:28.55 | Iriel | You should try and put like items in the same bag |
| 20:29.35 | Iriel | I suspect you'd want a few overflow level options: |
| 20:29.35 | Iriel | 1) Never overflow once a stack is full |
| 20:29.35 | Wobin_ | My only problem is that MrPlow sorts and stacks all non-special (herbal etc) bags as one bag |
| 20:29.48 | Iriel | 2) Overflow into existing bag only |
| 20:29.56 | Iriel | 3) Overflow into existing bag, then into other bags |
| 20:30.18 | Tem | Iriel: is there any major advantage to a weak value table over watching for a dectrease in mem usage? |
| 20:30.18 | wereHamster | Iriel, is gcdetect a lua function? |
| 20:30.38 | Iriel | Tem: Absolute reliability |
| 20:30.54 | Iriel | wereHamster : No, it's just a little construct I used in my test harness to detect a GC run |
| 20:31.16 | Wobin_ | if it doesn't exist, a run has occurred? |
| 20:31.32 | wereHamster | I'm very be interested in your code.. to include it into my LuaProfiler |
| 20:31.33 | Iriel | Yup, if gcdetect.detect is nil, a run occurred |
| 20:31.54 | Iriel | The code's about 3 pages back 8-) |
| 20:32.14 | Wobin_ | Tem: also, using this, the test is a whole lot simpler... |
| 20:32.18 | Wobin_ | no comparison required |
| 20:32.28 | Tem | still a one liner |
| 20:32.30 | Iriel | I can fool the other approach |
| 20:32.41 | Iriel | consider this: |
| 20:32.45 | Iriel | 1) I collect all garbage |
| 20:32.54 | Iriel | 2) Other approach takes a look at gcinfo() |
| 20:33.04 | Iriel | 3) I do x = {}; x = nil; |
| 20:33.08 | Iriel | 4) I collect all garbage again |
| 20:33.17 | Iriel | 5) Other approach gets its next look at gcinfo() |
| 20:33.39 | Tem | yeah, for something like a garbage lib it's important |
| 20:33.50 | Tem | for most other things, the other approach is just fine |
| 20:34.35 | Iriel | yeah, it depends how sure you want to be about it |
| 20:34.57 | Iriel | I was trying to measure the difference between x = "Hello " .. y and x = string.format("Hello %d", y) |
| 20:35.21 | Iriel | (Successfully, i'll add 8-) |
| 20:35.23 | wereHamster | Iriel, isn't gcinfo() good enough to detect a GC ? |
| 20:35.26 | Adrine | Quick question... |
| 20:35.45 | Iriel | wereHamster : No, for the case described above |
| 20:35.50 | Adrine | Anyone have a copy of the spell DB they could shoot to me? |
| 20:36.18 | Adrine | I'm kicking around idea for item valuation, and will need info on various passive and proc effects |
| 20:36.41 | Adrine | I noticed that Allakhazam references them in their XML quite cleanly, but I'm hoping for a nicer solution that screen scraping and parsing to build a table of what does what. |
| 20:39.39 | wereHamster | iriel, how does HighMemRun() measure how much memory has been allocated? |
| 20:43.16 | Iriel | wereHamster : Forced GC then GC info before, and then gcinfo after, with a check (using gcdetect) to make sure that no GC runs happened in the middle |
| 20:43.44 | Iriel | wereHamster : I also have a method to create a specified amount of memory use before the test runs |
| 20:44.00 | Iriel | wereHamster : So I can guarantee a specified amount of space to grow before a GC run would normally happen |
| 20:45.29 | wereHamster | I'm running out of space in my addon.. so many possible columns that I could generate and not enough space ;) |
| 20:46.40 | ComicSansMS | what was your new addon about again? |
| 20:46.52 | wereHamster | and very annoying: I can't get the numbers to show exactly under each other :( |
| 20:47.51 | Iriel | Even if you right-align the cells |
| 20:47.52 | Iriel | ? |
| 20:49.04 | wereHamster | you mean justifyH="RIGHT" ? |
| 20:49.39 | Iriel | yes |
| 20:50.50 | wereHamster | sure.. I've already had this problem in coolDown, there I display the time like this: string.format("%02d:%02d", minutes, seconds) |
| 20:51.11 | wereHamster | and I had to set justifyH to "LEFT" |
| 20:51.42 | Iriel | Which Font are you using? |
| 20:51.55 | Iriel | It may just be that the font doesn't have evenly sized numbers |
| 20:51.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@dhcp-128-83-134-52.cc.utexas.edu) |
| 20:52.03 | wereHamster | ClearFontNumber.ttf |
| 20:56.39 | Iriel | Have you tried a non-proportional font like Lucida Console? |
| 21:00.10 | wereHamster | right now I've tried with Comic Sans MS (that is monospace, right?) and I still see this issue |
| 21:00.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth_ (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:00.39 | wereHamster | seems like the '1' is always drawn a bit shorter than the other characters |
| 21:00.51 | wereHamster | or calculated |
| 21:03.51 | Miravlix | You sure, you get the font set right? |
| 21:03.58 | id` | http://pastebin.com/674084 |
| 21:04.00 | id` | need help |
| 21:04.07 | id` | fill in my <something>'s so it works! (also when first changes to e.g. 6 and row and col change :P) |
| 21:04.11 | Miravlix | It's a bit supprisingly if Mono spaced fonts aren't mono spaced |
| 21:04.32 | wereHamster | Miravlix, font:SetFont("Interface\\AddOns\\coolDown\\Fonts\\coolDownFont.ttf", 14, "OUTLINE"); |
| 21:04.37 | Miravlix | Doesn't wow use windows fonts? |
| 21:05.10 | Adrine | This is truly amazing. |
| 21:05.11 | Adrine | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfwnEVCwqsM |
| 21:05.16 | Ktron | id`, not sure if I understand your question |
| 21:05.32 | id` | Ktron: do you know visor? |
| 21:05.45 | Ktron | a little |
| 21:06.47 | Ktron | enough anyway |
| 21:06.53 | id` | well i wanna make visor button bars |
| 21:07.06 | Miravlix | Use the symbol font or something thats so different you are sure it works |
| 21:07.26 | wereHamster | symbol font? |
| 21:07.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth_ (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:08.39 | Ktron | well, you've seen the makeBar() script on the wiki, right? |
| 21:09.38 | id` | yes |
| 21:09.42 | id` | but i dont really get it |
| 21:09.50 | id` | as styple made it with offsets on the X and Y |
| 21:10.06 | id` | wich is really weird and doesnt work when you start scaling buttons |
| 21:10.35 | Tain | Works fine for me. |
| 21:10.49 | Ktron | i haven't noticed problems yet.. |
| 21:11.11 | zeeg | http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/new-alliance-race-pic-1-id1268/ |
| 21:11.43 | Adrine | I like how they are using the old character models in those screenshots |
| 21:11.55 | Adrine | The ones that you can dig out of the mpc files but that obviously aren't in the game. :P |
| 21:13.23 | Ktron | the Natherzim are a new spectulation to me |
| 21:13.56 | Ktron | oh wait, that's because its obvious |
| 21:13.57 | Adrine | I'd rate it an instant fake due to the usage of the old-that-are-supposed-to-look-new character models. |
| 21:17.12 | Ktron | yeah |
| 21:17.38 | Ktron | I'm not suggesting its not a fake, I just hadn't even heard of people joking about the naztherzheieieieeheiheihem |
| 21:19.19 | Ktron | I stil think whether it is or isn't, it should be murlocs, because they are the only race that I think will be played as well as blood elves |
| 21:19.44 | Ktron | And alliance needs a funny talking race:) |
| 21:20.03 | Adrine | I think the only way I wouldn't like the new race is if it was stupidly dull, average, and boring. |
| 21:20.06 | wereHamster | does anyone here have coolDown installed? I'd like to know if someone else can confirm what I see :) |
| 21:20.39 | Adrine | The way I see it, it'll either be big and badass, or small and delicate (which would make it awesome to play in PVP, because being killed by something small is humiliating) |
| 21:21.15 | Tem | My personal favorite to kill is gnome mages |
| 21:21.21 | Tem | I *hate* gnome mages |
| 21:21.30 | Tem | they annoy the crap out of me on my alliance toon |
| 21:21.40 | Tem | and are easy kills on my undead rogue |
| 21:22.04 | Ktron | wereHamster, I did, but I don't currently |
| 21:23.08 | Ktron | The only other race that I think wouldn't make all the new characters one sided is worgen-- worgen and murlocs the only races I can think of that the split between horde and alliance wouldn't be excessively one-sided, and I think more people will still play BE over either ofthose |
| 21:23.35 | Kirov | Anyone know how many servers there are currently? |
| 21:23.57 | Kirov | And how many characters each server can support now |
| 21:24.15 | Miravlix | Unlimited on chars |
| 21:24.22 | Miravlix | But limited on concurent players |
| 21:25.08 | Miravlix | The times I've run cencusplus on queued servers, we get less than 1000 players pr. side concurently |
| 21:26.07 | Adrine | .....hahaha |
| 21:26.14 | Adrine | Spell ID 8352 is "Adjust Attitude (238682)" |
| 21:26.18 | Adrine | I wonder if that's a GM spell. >_> |
| 21:26.28 | Kirov | Adrine - have you read #5? |
| 21:26.40 | Kirov | "Kill your target instantly. You feel like a big man now?" |
| 21:26.48 | Adrine | Death Touch, heh |
| 21:27.00 | Adrine | Hot Foot (TEST) (277) |
| 21:27.03 | Adrine | Wonder what that is. |
| 21:27.21 | Kirov | Miravlix - less than 1000 players? Hmm, I thought the new servers were supposed to support more players, not less. |
| 21:27.40 | Adrine | Still trying to grok the file. I'm not seeing associated value information (my test is the +1% crit aura) |
| 21:27.58 | Kirov | Last time I ran census it was getting around 1800 players on the alliance side. |
| 21:28.08 | Kremonte | what framestrata is 1 less than dialog? :< |
| 21:28.08 | Kirov | And that was a medium server |
| 21:28.43 | Adrine | zzOLDVoodoo Eye-Poke (25090) |
| 21:28.44 | Adrine | That rocks. |
| 21:28.56 | Adrine | Me gonna poke joo in da eye, mon! |
| 21:29.47 | zenzelezz | that's probably just some spell that hurts people with old Voodoo cards |
| 21:29.53 | Adrine | Hahah |
| 21:41.18 | Adrine | Scooby Snack Effect (276794) is my favorite so far. |
| 21:43.54 | id` | what was % in match again? |
| 21:43.57 | id` | math* |
| 21:44.14 | id` | not as in, percent.. |
| 21:44.35 | wereHamster | modulo? |
| 21:44.38 | id` | YES |
| 21:44.44 | id` | thank you |
| 21:45.01 | wereHamster | isn't that from C ? |
| 21:45.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:45.39 | id` | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic |
| 21:45.41 | Tain | It's from math. |
| 21:45.46 | id` | i just needed the damn name |
| 21:45.53 | id` | thats going to help me :> |
| 21:53.00 | wereHamster | I give up.. when justifyH is "CENTER" then the string gets shorter if there is a '1' at the very right position in the string, if justiftH is "RIGHT" then 0' and '4' are wider, '1' shorter then they should be, but again only when they appear as the very last characters in the string |
| 21:58.10 | Miravlix | I think 1200-1300 his queue time on EU servers |
| 21:58.53 | Miravlix | But maybe the number is total and not pr. side? |
| 21:59.11 | Miravlix | If it's total, then checking on side is highly inaccurate |
| 22:01.12 | MentalPower | id`: math.mod |
| 22:04.05 | id` | MentalPower: yeh :) |
| 22:04.12 | id` | testing it |
| 22:06.09 | Cide | Iriel: I need your /vdump! :) |
| 22:06.29 | Iriel | I wish it were read for release 8-( |
| 22:07.04 | wereHamster | what will /vdump do? |
| 22:07.23 | Cide | show tables in a most glorious fashion! |
| 22:07.28 | Cide | or display, rather |
| 22:08.01 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/vdump2.png |
| 22:08.02 | Iriel | I think |
| 22:08.05 | wereHamster | using krka's indenter ? |
| 22:08.22 | Iriel | no, different approach |
| 22:08.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:09.30 | Tem | Iriel: I want a video of vdump working |
| 22:10.20 | Iriel | Bah, it'll take me less time to release a prototype |
| 22:10.51 | Iriel | I got cluster dragging working last time I was fiddling with it, so it's getting close to play-with-able for the educated masses |
| 22:11.20 | Iriel | I've changed some of my interaction plans though, after playing around |
| 22:11.30 | Iriel | More mouse-over, less click |
| 22:11.47 | Iriel | I'm basically coding to support the behaviours I find myself trying to get it to do when I use it |
| 22:13.14 | Cide | hmm. |
| 22:13.18 | Tem | tic toc |
| 22:13.27 | Tem | =P |
| 22:13.53 | Cide | it seems like either 1) GetNumRaidMembers() returns 0 or 2) all UnitName("raid#") calls return nil at some point during zoning/reload |
| 22:13.59 | Cide | that is troublesome |
| 22:14.48 | Cide | and in case you wonder, yes, I'm waiting until PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD to do anything :) |
| 22:14.51 | wereHamster | yes.. I've run into it, too :( |
| 22:15.03 | Iriel | Cide: Sounds about right |
| 22:15.12 | Iriel | Cide: I imagine raids are rebuilt like parties |
| 22:15.20 | Iriel | Cide : They empty out and rebuild themselves member by member |
| 22:15.27 | Iriel | Cide: I suggest not scanning it until OnUpdate |
| 22:15.42 | Iriel | Cide : Or until you need the contents from something that's *NOT* a raid change event |
| 22:15.43 | Cide | I guess I could set a zoning flag and do that |
| 22:16.21 | wereHamster | yhowever, you shouldn't get RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE once for each raid member anymore.. only once when zoning/enterign world |
| 22:18.38 | Cide | it would be rather pleasant to have it rebuilt before calling PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD, though :) |
| 22:19.04 | id` | http://pastebin.com/674263 |
| 22:19.05 | id` | \o/ |
| 22:19.08 | id` | voctory! |
| 22:19.19 | id` | not to forget victory! |
| 22:19.34 | ckknight | we are voctorious! |
| 22:20.19 | Wobin_ | Can you concat two tables? |
| 22:20.36 | id` | knight: Have at thee, fiend! We shall be voctorious! monster: voctorious? knight: ya thats what id said.. |
| 22:20.57 | ckknight | ...? |
| 22:21.08 | id` | oh i didnt mean knight as in you.. |
| 22:21.13 | ckknight | oh |
| 22:21.18 | ckknight | thought you did |
| 22:21.22 | id` | ^^ |
| 22:21.29 | id` | less caffeine ^^' |
| 22:21.57 | ckknight | Wobin_, a = {1, 2, 3} b = {4, 5, 6} for _,v in ipairs(b) do table.insert(a, v) end |
| 22:21.59 | id` | (for me) |
| 22:22.35 | Wobin_ | ckknight: Alas. I was hoping for something a little more elemental =( |
| 22:22.40 | ckknight | okay |
| 22:23.05 | Cide | I must be tired. I have spelled "zoning" "zonining" twice, in a row. |
| 22:23.14 | ckknight | function concat(a, b) c = {}for _,v in ipairs(a) do table.insert(c, v) end for _,v in ipairs(b) do table.insert(c, v) end return c end |
| 22:24.00 | Wobin_ | ckknight: =P |
| 22:26.13 | ckknight | you'd want local c =, not juct c = |
| 22:26.21 | ckknight | but you get the point |
| 22:26.52 | ckknight | oh |
| 22:26.56 | ckknight | apparently, there's table.concat |
| 22:27.26 | ckknight | oh, nvm |
| 22:27.29 | ckknight | that's not what you want |
| 22:27.37 | Wobin_ | it's not? |
| 22:28.13 | Iriel | table.concat concatenates a list into a string |
| 22:28.16 | ckknight | yea |
| 22:28.28 | ckknight | just use the function I gave you |
| 22:28.34 | ckknight | it does create a table every time, though |
| 22:28.37 | Wobin_ | oh that string it |
| 22:28.42 | me | "Bah, it'll take -Iriel- less time to release a prototype" |
| 22:28.49 | ckknight | who is me? |
| 22:28.54 | Wobin_ | nm, I was hoping for what we were expecting table.concat to do |
| 22:29.04 | Wobin_ | I'll just fiddle around with my current structure to not need it |
| 22:29.13 | ckknight | okay |
| 22:29.15 | me | I am me |
| 22:29.35 | Wobin_ | I'm me too |
| 22:29.40 | Iriel | You should pick a less contextually ambiguous identifier |
| 22:29.44 | Wobin_ | . o O (And so's my wife) |
| 22:29.47 | me | and, no, me will not take less caffine |
| 22:29.51 | Iriel | You're your own wife? |
| 22:30.01 | me | asexual? |
| 22:30.02 | ckknight | I'm my own uncle |
| 22:30.12 | Wobin_ | Well, it was an attempt at a subtle cultural reference |
| 22:30.20 | ckknight | lol |
| 22:30.30 | ckknight | my brother adopted me, so no, we're not from the south |
| 22:30.34 | me | my sis's pregnant again, and my nephew's only 7 months old.. |
| 22:31.04 | ckknight | hrm |
| 22:31.25 | ckknight | it's typically better for children to be spread apart 3-5 years |
| 22:31.40 | me | ya, that's the thought i think |
| 22:31.56 | me | i have 2 and 4 on either side |
| 22:32.45 | me | not that this has any useful context. i don't think you can go on the pill if you're breat feeding.. |
| 22:32.49 | zeeg | hrm |
| 22:32.56 | wereHamster | .. and it sucks to be the youngest child :( .. at least for me |
| 22:33.14 | Kirov | were - out of how many? |
| 22:33.32 | wereHamster | out of two :-P |
| 22:33.38 | Kirov | meh |
| 22:33.43 | me | you don't count |
| 22:33.53 | Kirov | my dad is eldest of 9 |
| 22:34.11 | ckknight | wereHamster, I'm the youngest of 3 |
| 22:35.09 | Kremonte | i was the youngest of 3 for 6 years, now i have a little sister and she's so spoiled |
| 22:35.25 | Tem | you're 6 years old? |
| 22:35.32 | wereHamster | lucky you ... |
| 22:35.32 | Kirov | lol |
| 22:35.44 | Kirov | Only children are ... weird |
| 22:35.46 | Kremonte | =P |
| 22:35.52 | Tem | Kremonte being 6 explains a lot... |
| 22:36.05 | Kremonte | Tem being illiterate doesn't explain anything |
| 22:36.07 | Kremonte | ;~; |
| 22:36.46 | Tem | I'm not illiterate |
| 22:36.52 | Tem | your statement was unclear |
| 22:37.05 | me | anyone wanna help me test ArcanePartyBars on draka? |
| 22:37.31 | Tem | ah me must be anduin |
| 22:37.42 | Iriel | You're not Anduin |
| 22:37.44 | Iriel | You're tem |
| 22:37.59 | Tem | I'm too tired to play mind games |
| 22:38.03 | Kremonte | haha |
| 22:38.08 | Kremonte | and no Tem, itwasnt ambiguous |
| 22:38.10 | zenzelezz | maybe he's both |
| 22:38.17 | me | i like offering a constant challenge and unexpected difficulty to life for all those around me |
| 22:38.49 | Kremonte | "i was the youngest of 3 for 6 years, now i have a little sister " |
| 22:38.51 | me | oh wait.. this is why i have 2 accounts, i forgot |
| 22:38.59 | Tem | Kremonte: you said you were the youngest of three children for 6 years. that means you were 6 years old when you were no longer the youngest |
| 22:39.10 | Tem | Kremonte: THEN you said "NOW" |
| 22:39.26 | Tem | I have a little sister |
| 22:39.28 | Tem | meaning I |
| 22:39.36 | Kremonte | "and she's so spoiled" implies the past |
| 22:39.36 | Tem | 'm no longer the youngest of three |
| 22:39.42 | Kremonte | because you can't be spoiled the second you are born |
| 22:39.48 | Tem | I disagree |
| 22:39.53 | Iriel | he didn't imply that she was freshly born |
| 22:39.53 | Tem | but that's beyond the point |
| 22:39.57 | Iriel | though he didn't imply otherwise |
| 22:40.03 | Tem | and that IS my point |
| 22:40.03 | me | is or was are semi-legal contractions of that sort |
| 22:40.06 | Iriel | the only thing you could take away was that he's AT LEAST 6 years old |
| 22:40.19 | Tem | aye |
| 22:40.24 | Kremonte | and i've already stated (on multiple occasions iirc) that i am 14 |
| 22:40.24 | Kremonte | =^) |
| 22:40.26 | Tem | that would be the right thing to assume |
| 22:40.37 | me | you have? |
| 22:40.37 | Iriel | I think statistics have eaten your brain |
| 22:40.40 | Iriel | he has |
| 22:40.42 | Kremonte | actually, from that statement you shouldn't assume anythign about my age |
| 22:40.49 | me | boy, me's memory sucks |
| 22:40.52 | Tem | but since I'm crazy tired, you think my logic is working properly? |
| 22:40.53 | Kirov | yes, kremonte has already stated he's 14 |
| 22:41.02 | Tem | Anduin: I don't remember that either don't feel bad |
| 22:41.16 | Kremonte | also |
| 22:41.17 | Kirov | me - obviously, since you don't appear to remember your own name. |
| 22:41.27 | me | yes me does |
| 22:41.28 | Kremonte | i don't think it's possible for a 6 year old to be as annoying as i am |
| 22:41.34 | Iriel | Usually in the context of "I'm only 14 so <....>" or "<....> but then i'm only 14." |
| 22:42.23 | me | hmm, now i have a whilefalse too |
| 22:42.29 | Iriel | The great motherboard replacement incident being the period I remember it from. |
| 22:43.15 | Tem | Kremonte: I think a 6 year old could do a MUCH better job |
| 22:45.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:45.54 | zeeg | in case anyone else needed it |
| 22:45.54 | zeeg | http://www.wowguru.com/ui/229/dbc-to-csv-converter/ |
| 22:47.46 | wereHamster | zeeg, how do I use it? |
| 22:48.10 | zeeg | read the description |
| 22:48.11 | zeeg | :p |
| 22:48.15 | Kirov | extract the .dbc files from the .wdb files first |
| 22:48.21 | zeeg | from the .mpqs * |
| 22:48.26 | Kirov | er, yeah |
| 22:48.30 | Kirov | using WinMPQ |
| 22:48.54 | wereHamster | zeeg, read the description.. always a good idea |
| 22:49.13 | zeeg | :) |
| 22:49.29 | wereHamster | Converted: 0 files (0 bytes) |
| 22:50.06 | Kirov | were - that means no .dbc files |
| 22:50.29 | wereHamster | how do I create them? |
| 22:50.31 | zeeg | whats the latest TOC #? |
| 22:50.42 | zeeg | extract them from WoW's MPQ files |
| 22:50.44 | zeeg | dbcs.mpq for example |
| 22:54.14 | wereHamster | .. can't run WinMPQ :( |
| 22:54.21 | Miravlix | Same as the version number without dots + 00 |
| 22:54.50 | zeeg | 110200? |
| 22:55.41 | Miravlix | 11000 |
| 22:55.54 | zeeg | so not quite the same eh? ;) |
| 22:56.06 | Miravlix | Whats the difference? |
| 22:56.10 | zeeg | ver is 1.10.2 |
| 22:56.10 | Miravlix | Current version is 1.10 |
| 22:56.14 | zeeg | current is 1.10.1 |
| 22:56.16 | Kremonte | 1.10.1 |
| 22:56.16 | zeeg | test is 1.10.2 |
| 22:56.21 | Miravlix | No it's release 2 of 1.10 |
| 22:56.25 | Kremonte | ... |
| 22:56.29 | zeeg | its listed as 1.10.1 |
| 22:56.33 | Kremonte | the current version is 1.10.1, Miravlix |
| 22:56.34 | zeeg | and test is listed as 1.10.2 |
| 22:56.43 | Cide | interface number changes only if there are ("major") interface changes |
| 22:57.01 | zeeg | and major |
| 22:57.05 | zeeg | would be anything not extremely minor |
| 22:57.06 | zeeg | :) |
| 22:57.14 | Cide | anything not minor |
| 22:57.23 | Cide | ie, major enough to potentially affect addons |
| 22:57.40 | Kremonte | damn you Cide |
| 22:57.45 | Kremonte | nobody on the internet can use affect correctly |
| 22:57.49 | Kremonte | YOU ARE BREAKING THE STEREOTYPE |
| 22:57.53 | Cide | sorry :( |
| 22:57.59 | Kremonte | it's okay though, i love you <3 |
| 22:57.59 | zeeg | effect? |
| 22:58.06 | Kremonte | yay |
| 22:58.06 | zeeg | stupid words |
| 22:58.32 | Miravlix | 1.10.1 effected addons |
| 22:58.44 | Cide | affected :) |
| 22:59.02 | Cide | (sorry, I had to Kremonte ;)) |
| 22:59.08 | Kremonte | no, it's okay |
| 22:59.12 | Kremonte | Miravlix fixed the stereotype |
| 22:59.20 | Cide | in what way? |
| 22:59.29 | Kirov | 1.10.1 infected addons |
| 22:59.31 | Kremonte | by saying effected |
| 22:59.34 | Cide | I didn't have to make any changes |
| 22:59.53 | Miravlix | I have dyslexia and can't tell the difference between effected or affected |
| 22:59.59 | Kremonte | ..damnit |
| 23:00.06 | Kirov | lyxdexia |
| 23:00.17 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:00.17 | Cide | affect = to produce an effect upon |
| 23:00.31 | Miravlix | I know what the words mean |
| 23:00.38 | Miravlix | I just can't read or write |
| 23:00.45 | Cide | well you said you didn't know the difference :) |
| 23:01.02 | Cide | but I understand |
| 23:01.26 | Cide | anyway! 1.10.1 didn't affect addons in a very major way, as far as I know? |
| 23:01.33 | Miravlix | It did |
| 23:01.45 | Cide | how? |
| 23:01.52 | Miravlix | Cosmos Release was broken after 1.10 |
| 23:02.01 | Miravlix | I think thats pretty major |
| 23:02.09 | Miravlix | 1.10.1 |
| 23:02.15 | Cide | well |
| 23:02.19 | Cide | I didn't see any patch changes related to addons |
| 23:02.31 | Kirov | because you were hooking stuff that wasn't supposed to be hooked in the first place, or because of the savedvariables issue? |
| 23:02.32 | Cide | so it might've been indeliberate |
| 23:02.38 | Kremonte | what's 1 strata lower than dialog? |
| 23:02.44 | Cide | HIGH? |
| 23:02.52 | Kremonte | domo arigato misuta saido |
| 23:03.17 | Kirov | mr. roboto? |
| 23:03.21 | Kremonte | misuta saido. |
| 23:03.28 | Kremonte | Cide = Saido! |
| 23:03.44 | Miravlix | The patch notes seldom contain all that happends with a patch |
| 23:03.45 | Kirov | Cide == Mr. Roboto! |
| 23:03.56 | Cide | what did I do now? :) |
| 23:03.57 | Kremonte | iie, kirobbu! |
| 23:04.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.27 | Miravlix | I never saw an official post explaining the SetOwner requirement in 1.10 |
| 23:04.28 | Tain | All the Cosmos addons were using RegisterForSave() :X |
| 23:04.29 | Cide | Miravlix: you can't expect them to change the interface number based on indeliberate changes (or, unknown) |
| 23:04.39 | Kremonte | RegisterForSave() <_<" |
| 23:04.50 | Miravlix | We talked with Slouken, it was very much intentional |
| 23:04.57 | Kremonte | wasn't Iriel's sig "Don't use RegisterForSave()!" for like, months?> |
| 23:05.04 | Miravlix | And yeah Cosmos is old so we had to remove RegisterForSave's |
| 23:05.32 | Cide | what changed, specifically? |
| 23:05.34 | Cide | in 1.10.1 |
| 23:05.35 | Miravlix | There was some interesting tricks possible with RegisterForSave() too, due to Khaos saving configuration and addons wanting to be stand alone |
| 23:06.07 | Tain | And no the patch notes won't tell you everything you need to know, that's why the UI forum is such a fantastic resource. I can't think of anything that wasn't figure out before the patch in discussions there from the test server. |
| 23:07.37 | Miravlix | I don't understand why we had to loss RegisterForSave |
| 23:07.53 | Miravlix | Okay it was buggy and they prolly didn't want to fix it perhaps |
| 23:08.08 | Miravlix | It used SavedVariables.lua messing things up |
| 23:08.23 | Kirov | to keep savedvariables protected? |
| 23:08.42 | Miravlix | But I really think they should give us API calls for most Toc stuff |
| 23:09.01 | Tain | Have you suggested it? |
| 23:09.22 | Iriel | Here's why... |
| 23:09.43 | Iriel | Because RegisterForSave isn't trackable by addon |
| 23:10.19 | Iriel | And they re-did the whole "normal" SavedVariables file so that it's manually parsed instead of executed, so there's a significant argument for putting as little as possible in there |
| 23:10.30 | Miravlix | Still it allowed all of Cosmos addons to be independent and support Khaos without double saving settings, was a pretty nice feature. |
| 23:10.59 | Iriel | So add "CosmosData" as an addon that just provides a single SavedVariable entrypoint |
| 23:11.19 | Iriel | I personally think the solution is that addons delegate their variables to Khaos for control |
| 23:11.27 | Miravlix | How would that solve the problem of them being independent? |
| 23:11.31 | Iriel | but the addons themselves register the variable |
| 23:11.57 | Iriel | RFS breaks the second you fail to load your addon, or it breaks at startup anyway |
| 23:12.02 | Miravlix | They need to have there settings when stand alone and Khaos need to put the settings in the profile |
| 23:12.33 | Tain | Why can't Khaos read each addon's sv? |
| 23:12.33 | Iriel | Oops, I started up with an out of date Khaos, and now all my settings vanished, oh well |
| 23:12.58 | Miravlix | Hmm? |
| 23:13.20 | Miravlix | Khaos doesn't erase settings |
| 23:13.28 | Iriel | Well, the biggest problem with RFS is that if you dont DO it, you lose all of your settings |
| 23:13.30 | Miravlix | It's the addons that have to do it |
| 23:13.44 | Miravlix | Aah RegisterForSave |
| 23:14.00 | Miravlix | Yes, it breaks if the addon isn't loaded |
| 23:14.09 | Miravlix | But they changed the logic |
| 23:14.16 | Kirov | Like DamageMeters |
| 23:14.17 | Miravlix | It doesn't erase old savedvariables |
| 23:14.19 | Kirov | always so annoying |
| 23:14.46 | Miravlix | So RegisterForSaveChar RegisterForSaveAccount |
| 23:14.49 | Miravlix | Would be nice |
| 23:14.56 | Iriel | There is _no_ need for that |
| 23:15.03 | ckknight | Embedded Libraries |
| 23:15.04 | Tain | But everything you need already exists. |
| 23:15.04 | Miravlix | Even if the addon breaks on load it wont break the savedvariables file |
| 23:15.11 | Tain | You just have to do it a different way than the old broken way. |
| 23:15.15 | Iriel | An embedded library has no business saving variables |
| 23:15.16 | ckknight | that's the only place I see RegisterForSave useful |
| 23:15.21 | ckknight | Iriel, why? |
| 23:15.27 | ckknight | GloryLib saves variables, it has to |
| 23:15.38 | ckknight | it keeps track of your deaths/wins/losses, etc. |
| 23:15.46 | Iriel | So it shouldn't be embedded? |
| 23:15.49 | ckknight | yes it should |
| 23:15.55 | ckknight | it's a library |
| 23:15.57 | Iriel | Or it should have a LoD partner to handle the dat aloading |
| 23:16.08 | ckknight | why not have it embedded? |
| 23:16.11 | Iriel | There is a point at which a "dependency" does have value |
| 23:16.12 | Miravlix | Thats ruins the whole idea of it being embeded |
| 23:16.24 | Iriel | Okay, so let's step back |
| 23:16.29 | Iriel | You make it embedded |
| 23:16.34 | Iriel | it saves variables |
| 23:16.37 | ckknight | yep |
| 23:16.40 | Iriel | Now you start up when you're not running it |
| 23:16.47 | ckknight | right |
| 23:16.50 | Iriel | maybe you disabled all the addons that use it |
| 23:16.56 | Iriel | what happens to your data? |
| 23:17.01 | Miravlix | Nothing |
| 23:17.09 | Iriel | Well, SOMETHING has to happen to it |
| 23:17.14 | Miravlix | It doesn't erase inactive addon.lua savedvariables |
| 23:17.24 | Iriel | this isn't an addon.lua SV |
| 23:17.26 | Miravlix | That was the old way |
| 23:17.30 | Iriel | this is a RFS SV, because it's an embedded one |
| 23:17.39 | ckknight | currently, GloryLib saves data in the addons that use it |
| 23:17.55 | Miravlix | I'm not advocating getting RegisterForSave() old school |
| 23:18.06 | Miravlix | I want RegisterForSave that uses the new system |
| 23:18.09 | ckknight | they have to do ## SavedVariablesPerCharacter: GloryLibDB in their toc |
| 23:18.22 | Iriel | Ah, so you want RegisterForAddOnSave("AddonName", "VariableName") ? |
| 23:18.50 | Iriel | Bearing in mind that still has all the failure problems of the old Register For Save |
| 23:19.09 | Iriel | if you (or someone that installs bad hooks) make your addon fail on startup, bye bye variables |
| 23:19.10 | Miravlix | no |
| 23:19.21 | Miravlix | Because the new way doesn't erase savedvariables\file.lua |
| 23:19.37 | Iriel | That's not my point |
| 23:19.57 | Iriel | Or are you advocating a scheme where a variable appearing in SV\file.lua is automatically registerd for save next time? |
| 23:20.06 | Iriel | Because that just sounds like a recipe for crap building up over time |
| 23:20.54 | id` | its my b-day :-) |
| 23:21.05 | zenzelezz | grats |
| 23:22.28 | Miravlix | Well, crap does build up now in the savedvariables directory |
| 23:22.51 | Iriel | But if I remove a variable name from my toc it goes away |
| 23:22.54 | Miravlix | If you install LootLink it's huge savedvariables\lootlink.lua will keep being around until you manually erase it |
| 23:23.04 | Iriel | I'm not talking about addons that aren't enabled anymore |
| 23:23.08 | Iriel | i'm talking about those that are |
| 23:23.16 | Iriel | but which might not always start up error-free |
| 23:23.25 | Kirov | Mirvalix - but it won't ever get loaded |
| 23:23.25 | Iriel | possibly through no fault of their own |
| 23:23.37 | Kirov | Where as random crap in the savedvariables file always will be |
| 23:23.39 | Iriel | That's the nice thing about ## SavedVariables:, it's independent of the addon actually working |
| 23:24.10 | Miravlix | But even if you erase the addon it's savedvariables stay on your system now |
| 23:24.21 | Iriel | There's a real difference between something that can be determined by the 'container' and something that has to be explicitly requested at runtime. |
| 23:24.51 | Iriel | Miravlix : We know that, that's not the point. They're on your filesystem, big deal, disk is cheap |
| 23:25.11 | Kirov | An actual addon installer system for WoW (like Unreal's UMod, but less crappy) would of been nice |
| 23:26.27 | Miravlix | An addon with no RegisterForSave call and no ## SavedVariables line could simply not save on client logout/relod |
| 23:26.51 | Miravlix | But if it has a SavedVariables and RegisterForSave calls it overwrites |
| 23:26.58 | Iriel | Okay, miravlix, wipe your mind... and imagine this... |
| 23:27.05 | Iriel | You have an addon, let's call it XYZ |
| 23:27.17 | Iriel | It registers a variable for saving, at runtime, via your new call, called Bob |
| 23:27.26 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Adrine (n=Adrine@208.187.119.42) |
| 23:27.29 | Iriel | it puts really important stuff into Bob, lots of it |
| 23:27.37 | Iriel | and now you log out and in again.. Bob is reloaded, right? |
| 23:27.49 | Iriel | If it's disabled, fine, bob isn't loaded or saved, no problemo |
| 23:28.21 | Miravlix | Yes? |
| 23:28.23 | Iriel | NOW.. Suppose that someone hooks one of the functions that XYZ uses, and they screw it up, maybe they forgot an arg which most people dont use but XYZ does |
| 23:28.38 | Iriel | So XYZ loads, but it crashes right away, BANG! |
| 23:28.43 | Miravlix | So? |
| 23:28.45 | Iriel | It never gets the chance to RegisterForSave Bob |
| 23:28.52 | Iriel | so you log out and ohnoes! BoB is gone! |
| 23:28.55 | Miravlix | As long as it crash before it does RegisterForSave |
| 23:29.06 | Miravlix | It never enables the logout saving to overwrite |
| 23:29.19 | Iriel | How does WoW know? |
| 23:29.38 | Miravlix | Because it knows you called RegisterForSave? |
| 23:29.42 | Iriel | But you didn't |
| 23:29.47 | Iriel | You crashed before it got there |
| 23:29.55 | Iriel | well, 'had an error', not 'crashed' |
| 23:30.03 | Miravlix | Yes, then it knows that it doesn't have to do anything |
| 23:30.10 | Iriel | So it doesn't save Bob |
| 23:30.13 | Iriel | so bye bye bon |
| 23:30.14 | Iriel | bob |
| 23:30.15 | Miravlix | Because neither toc nor RegisterForSave call put it in the table to save |
| 23:30.29 | Iriel | Ah, but maybe the toc saved a different variable as well? |
| 23:30.45 | Miravlix | Then people are asking for an unstable RegisterForSave |
| 23:30.53 | Miravlix | But thats there problem |
| 23:31.17 | Iriel | That's the problem with a RUNTIME registration system |
| 23:31.20 | Iriel | that's why it's in the toc now |
| 23:31.25 | Miravlix | What problem? |
| 23:31.35 | Iriel | That it's inherently unstable |
| 23:31.50 | Iriel | a runtime registration requires it run, at runtime |
| 23:32.02 | Iriel | Anyway, I have to go home now. |
| 23:32.17 | Miravlix | If <addonname>.hassavedvariables then foreach(<assonname>.savedvariable, save) |
| 23:33.10 | Miravlix | To make it wipe the file we add in Wipse(<addonnamefile> |
| 23:33.59 | Miravlix | one track railroads |
| 23:55.06 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
