| 00:00.40 | Iriel | Miravlix : well, as long as everyone else does it, and nobody uses _'s in their addon names, and you avoid blizzard ones. |
| 00:00.50 | Ktron|PHP | Cairenn, CheerFul?:) |
| 00:01.00 | Cairenn | Fuster Cluck |
| 00:01.18 | Ktron|PHP | ah, I hate it when chickens do that |
| 00:01.21 | Cairenn | what can I say, I worked with the military for a while |
| 00:01.48 | Cairenn | and when folks joke about swearing like a salior? guess what, it isn't a joke :p |
| 00:02.00 | Ktron|PHP | hosting aircraft UIs for them?:) |
| 00:02.01 | Cairenn | although I was working with the AirForce, but same diff |
| 00:02.14 | Cairenn | ha ha ha :p |
| 00:02.40 | JoshBorke | haha, i know that term too cair :D |
| 00:02.40 | Kirkburn | Okay, taking in certain advice, I have got this ... http://wow.pastebin.com/619086 ... just lots of moving stuff into the function to do |
| 00:02.59 | Ktron|PHP | if you flip yourself upside down, the only way you know you're looking at the ocean and not the sky is becasuse the ocean is bumpier, and blood rushes into your hea |
| 00:03.03 | Ktron|PHP | d |
| 00:03.19 | Cairenn | lol |
| 00:03.29 | Miravlix | Don't see the problem with including _'s in your addon dir? |
| 00:03.46 | Iriel | Miravlix : You write XYZ addon |
| 00:03.47 | Miravlix | If addon dir is Blizzard_CRAFTUI then I can understand the problem |
| 00:03.51 | Iriel | Miravlix : I write XYZ_Wibble |
| 00:04.00 | Iriel | Miravlix : You call your variable XYZ_(Wibble_Count) |
| 00:04.06 | Iriel | Miravlix : I call mine XYZ_Wibble_(Count) |
| 00:04.11 | Qzot | Buy! Catch you all later. |
| 00:04.28 | Iriel | cya QZ> |
| 00:04.35 | Miravlix | Thats so a remote teoretical conflict it aint worth worrtying about |
| 00:04.50 | Miravlix | and it's easy to ask the user if they have any _ dirs with the same beginning as ours |
| 00:04.53 | Cairenn | later Qzot |
| 00:05.13 | Iriel | I'm sure thott though calling his global variable T was safe too |
| 00:05.22 | Miravlix | And pop |
| 00:05.36 | Miravlix | I don't agree with him, but... |
| 00:06.00 | Iriel | Maybe <Authorname>_<AddonName> is a safe prefix |
| 00:06.07 | Iriel | Because you can be trusted not to screw up your own code |
| 00:06.27 | Miravlix | <addonsubdir>_<names> is safe enough |
| 00:06.33 | Miravlix | It will clean up most problems |
| 00:07.29 | Miravlix | It will be once every 10 thousand addons that someone names it TitanPanel_Resurect_Overdosis and TitanPanel_Resurrection_Overdosis_Part3 |
| 00:07.42 | Osagasu | quick question: what's the boss in AQ that can't be tanked by warriors? |
| 00:07.58 | Miravlix | Actually it will never happend, who make addon subdirs with names like that? |
| 00:08.13 | Miravlix | the ones that hex the warrior? |
| 00:08.18 | Osagasu | yea |
| 00:08.22 | Miravlix | Thats usually the ones only bears can tank |
| 00:08.35 | Osagasu | Isn't there one that has to be tanked by locks? |
| 00:08.41 | Miravlix | Offcourse a good guild will just dispell the hex |
| 00:08.46 | Miravlix | So the warrior can still tank |
| 00:09.00 | Miravlix | just need two tanks instead, one hex the other has it |
| 00:09.40 | Kirkburn | Tadaa! http://wow.pastebin.com/619091 .... I think I'll rename the CF folder to zClearFont so it loads last, too. |
| 00:09.56 | Miravlix | I don't see why there would ever be a mob that has to be tanked by a lock |
| 00:10.04 | Miravlix | What ability does a lock have to keep agro? |
| 00:10.11 | Kirkburn | uberness |
| 00:10.35 | Miravlix | The boss has to do something that makes it impossible for a warrior and bear to tank it |
| 00:10.36 | Kirov | Twin Emperors. |
| 00:10.50 | Miravlix | What is that that only Warlocks can do and no one else? |
| 00:10.56 | Kirov | Any melee damage will cause a massive damage AOE |
| 00:11.07 | Kirov | like 3000-4000 damage blast |
| 00:11.16 | Kirov | Killing everything around it |
| 00:11.20 | Ktron|PHP | I've got an addon to submit, can anyone check my syntax? http://wow.pastebin.com/619096 |
| 00:11.29 | Ktron|PHP | don't worry about the toc, it's fine |
| 00:11.40 | Kirov | lol |
| 00:11.58 | Osagasu | then what does thaqt hex? |
| 00:12.16 | JoshBorke | *sigh* |
| 00:12.18 | Miravlix | Then a hunter with the shadow damage wolf can tank. :) |
| 00:12.39 | Kirov | Miravlix - except the shadow damage wolf still does melee |
| 00:12.45 | Kirov | ... and doesn't do shadow damage any more |
| 00:13.16 | Kirov | Paladins can tank as well, but they have to constantly turn off auto attack since judging mobs turns it on |
| 00:13.18 | Ktron|PHP | Just let a mage tank |
| 00:13.35 | Ktron|PHP | mana shield can take it!@ |
| 00:13.45 | Kirov | mages die too fast |
| 00:13.47 | Kirov | not enough HP |
| 00:14.29 | Ktron|PHP | hmph |
| 00:14.48 | Miravlix | Shaman |
| 00:14.50 | Ktron|PHP | yeah, so, yeah, voidstalkers ftw? |
| 00:15.18 | Kirkburn | If they existed ... |
| 00:15.34 | Ktron|PHP | s/voidstalkers/voidwalkers/ |
| 00:15.47 | Kirov | voidwalkers melee |
| 00:15.53 | Miravlix | Voidies does melee |
| 00:15.56 | Ktron|PHP | heh |
| 00:16.02 | Ktron|PHP | so... imps ftw? |
| 00:16.10 | Miravlix | There is nothing left if they changed the nice Duskwood wolf |
| 00:17.32 | Kirov | wind serpents |
| 00:21.01 | Ktron|PHP | can priests get their hp way up? |
| 00:21.15 | Kirkburn | Cairenn: I've uploaded a new CF beta. |
| 00:21.37 | Kirkburn | I don't suppose anyone feels like testing the new version out? :) |
| 00:22.17 | Miravlix | No |
| 00:22.47 | Miravlix | Priest is like a squishy paste they just die |
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| 00:23.06 | Cairenn | when you guys get a chance, and if you feel like it, could you help this guy out please? http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4129 |
| 00:23.08 | Miravlix | Warlock is definately the only thing with hps so they can tank |
| 00:23.26 | Cairenn | Kirkburn: approved, but I'm on live server right now so can't test =/ |
| 00:23.46 | Kirkburn | Thanks! |
| 00:28.12 | Kirkburn | I should be off now ... thanks for all your help!! |
| 00:28.20 | Cairenn | later Kirkburn |
| 00:28.35 | Kirkburn | I'll save the rest of the exclamation marks for when I know it works :P Taraa |
| 00:31.42 | Legorol | Cairenn: very exciting post! |
| 00:31.55 | Cairenn | ? |
| 00:32.05 | Legorol | It's quite involved and I haven't digested all of it yet, but... what the guy is trying to do is exactly what Blizzard has done with their "signed" code |
| 00:32.09 | Legorol | the post you linked |
| 00:32.13 | Cairenn | ah |
| 00:32.31 | Legorol | So once I think it through, I might suggest the solution that Blizzard used :-) |
| 00:32.43 | Legorol | it may not be possible in a pure Lua implementation.. |
| 00:32.51 | Legorol | where is Iriel when one needs him? |
| 00:32.53 | Iriel | I answered this last time it came up |
| 00:33.04 | Iriel | to the best of my ability not including writing his code for hjim |
| 00:33.07 | Iriel | I'm assuming it's the same person |
| 00:33.13 | Legorol | oh hi |
| 00:33.19 | Legorol | you *are* here :D |
| 00:33.32 | Miravlix | Where do you find a cow druid when you need one. |
| 00:33.38 | Iriel | Now, with 1.10, it's lot easier |
| 00:33.54 | Miravlix | How do you detect if a hostile druid is in a shape with mana? |
| 00:34.10 | Legorol | ick, sounds impossible |
| 00:34.10 | Kirov | UnitEnergyType ? |
| 00:34.28 | Legorol | oh hum, i think i misunderstood the question.. |
| 00:34.48 | Legorol | i thought you meant how do you detect how much mana (as opposed to rage/energy) he has when he is in bear/cat |
| 00:34.56 | Kirov | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitPowerType |
| 00:35.28 | Kirov | could be used to detect if a druid is in any form, or if a unit is a pet |
| 00:35.44 | Kirov | hmm |
| 00:35.56 | Kirov | happiness? |
| 00:35.59 | Iriel | In 1.10 it's fairly easy |
| 00:36.07 | Iriel | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18332#post18332 |
| 00:36.31 | Iriel | I think UnitPowerType works pretty well for druid dectection |
| 00:36.35 | Iriel | You have UnitClass also |
| 00:36.38 | Miravlix | I prefair UnitPlayerControled("target") and UnitCreatureType("target") == "Beast" that gets a shapeshifter |
| 00:36.51 | Iriel | UnitIsPlayer and UnitClass is druid and UnitPowerType == whatever |
| 00:36.53 | Miravlix | Or maybe just UnitClass("target") == "druid" |
| 00:37.13 | Kirov | well |
| 00:37.20 | Miravlix | Druids creature type is humanoid in elf shape, and beast in forms |
| 00:37.32 | Kirov | local _,class = UnitClass("target"); |
| 00:37.32 | Kirov | if ( class == "DRUID" ) then |
| 00:37.34 | Miravlix | And I don't have Oomkin form no idea if it's a beast |
| 00:40.56 | Miravlix | But UnitPowerType was just what I needed. |
| 00:41.16 | Miravlix | I was looking throught he unit list, but keept ignoring that one for some reason. :p |
| 00:43.28 | Miravlix | Now back to makeing PartyQuests run 0.002 ms faster pr call |
| 00:45.22 | Miravlix | Hmm, is there any global environment speedup because of propper local use in say 20 addons? |
| 00:46.08 | Iriel | The size of the global environment isn't much of an issue |
| 00:46.16 | Miravlix | Currently most addons polute the global environment with pretty much 99% of there code, I wonder what will happend if around 70-90% of addons got put into the local environment |
| 00:46.43 | Iriel | the blzizard code puts so much stuff in already, and it's a hashtable so the lookup doesn't scale much with size once it gets up there |
| 00:47.46 | Iriel | I can't remember who it was asking 'why do we need loadstring', well, that wowi post is a reason why |
| 00:47.47 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 00:47.54 | Iriel | loadstring/setfenv for the win |
| 00:48.27 | Iriel | Another reason to love lua I suppose |
| 00:50.14 | Iriel | Miravlix : One thing to NOT do is store optional data in Frame tables |
| 00:50.49 | Iriel | Miravlix : If you're using a Frame table, then store true/false values with explicit false, or put your settings/flags in their own subtable |
| 00:54.54 | cladhaire | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:55.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce5.disney.com) |
| 00:57.14 | Iriel | cladhaire : Dont store OPTIONAL data in a frame table |
| 00:57.29 | Iriel | cladhaire : Because if you ask for it, and it's not there, you invoke the overhead of the frame metamethod |
| 00:57.44 | Iriel | It's not an issue most of the time, but for the on-update crazed, it can be important |
| 00:57.47 | Iriel | or at least, relevant |
| 00:58.04 | Iriel | (We're still talking microscopic overhead) |
| 01:01.00 | Miravlix | Many small puddles make an ocean |
| 01:02.55 | Kirov | sorting LootLink item lists = a big freakin' ocean |
| 01:02.59 | Kirov | >.< |
| 01:03.18 | Kirov | especially with my hack-tastic "enhanced" version. |
| 01:04.38 | Kirov | If I have a reference to a table in a table, then I tremove that entry from the table, will the reference be nil? |
| 01:04.48 | Miravlix | Okay, this is just going to make the code way more easier to read |
| 01:05.18 | Miravlix | I'm 'mini' prototyping with local in the beginning of the file, so within the first page (with comments) someone knows as much about PQ as me. |
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| 01:17.55 | Iriel | Kirov: the table entry will be nil |
| 01:18.11 | Qzot | Buy. |
| 01:18.16 | Iriel | Buy? |
| 01:18.37 | Miravlix | No SELL SELL SELL |
| 01:18.42 | Iriel | Is this subliminal marketing? |
| 01:19.13 | Qzot | If you're asking about it, by definition, it's not. |
| 01:20.46 | Gryphen | damn noisy clown ad on wowi :/ |
| 01:21.08 | Cairenn | tell me you are joking ... |
| 01:21.10 | Miravlix | does your dev thing have build in profiler? |
| 01:21.49 | Gryphen | no, it the clown for free ringtones |
| 01:21.55 | Cairenn | >< |
| 01:22.12 | Gryphen | had my volume up, i shit myself |
| 01:22.24 | Cairenn | why the hell do I never see any of these? |
| 01:22.30 | Iriel | I hope you're using that phrase figuratively |
| 01:22.50 | Gryphen | sorta, i farted at least |
| 01:23.04 | Gryphen | may or may not have been related to the ad |
| 01:30.03 | Iriel | More than we needed to know |
| 01:30.08 | Iriel | but I suppose I asked |
| 01:30.17 | Iriel | Or at least implied a question |
| 01:31.21 | Iriel | Cairenn : My guess is because you're coming from canada, and they're location targetted ads? |
| 01:31.23 | cladhaire | Just catching up |
| 01:31.30 | cladhaire | Iriel: Aah.. that makes sense. |
| 01:31.31 | Cairenn | ah, could be |
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| 02:13.25 | AnduinLothar | final #2 down... 2 to go |
| 02:14.04 | Cairenn | good stuff ... |
| 02:14.32 | AnduinLothar | spose. I'll be (marginally) happy when they're over |
| 02:24.16 | AnduinLothar | ok, no wi'm impressed... ajaxWrite.com |
| 02:24.24 | AnduinLothar | I've been waiting for this for a long time |
| 02:24.44 | AnduinLothar | Can't wait till they have the exel one |
| 02:25.49 | AnduinLothar | too bad the menus don't work in camino |
| 02:25.53 | cladhaire | AnduinLothar: I was definitely impressed. |
| 02:26.37 | AnduinLothar | doesn't work on my old safari either |
| 02:26.55 | AnduinLothar | but i can tupdate that without updating my os |
| 02:27.25 | AnduinLothar | works fine in firefox of course |
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| 02:27.55 | AnduinLothar | lol, doesn't support IE yet :) |
| 02:28.03 | cladhaire | haha |
| 02:28.10 | Crispix | yech......... trillian skin :| |
| 02:28.29 | AnduinLothar | sad part is at work on the windows boxes firefox seems to be blocked by the router |
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| 02:32.10 | AnduinLothar | lol, love slashdot headlines "Apple MacBook Pro 'Fastest Windows XP Notebook'?" |
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| 02:40.21 | Kirov | Anyone dealt with adhoc networks? |
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| 02:40.57 | cladhaire | Kirov: Somewhat.. what are you trying to do? |
| 02:42.05 | Kirov | I have my laptop and my main pc, both have wireless |
| 02:42.23 | Kirov | I currently have them both hooked up to my router via cat5 |
| 02:42.31 | cladhaire | k |
| 02:42.38 | Kirov | I want to have my main pc hooked up via cat5, and my laptop connect to the rest of the network via adhoc |
| 02:42.51 | cladhaire | and you have a wireless code in both? |
| 02:46.08 | cladhaire | s/code/card/ |
| 02:48.13 | Kirov | yes |
| 02:51.12 | Legorol | Kirov: i might be able to help you, if you are running Windows on them |
| 02:51.17 | Kirov | yes |
| 02:51.47 | Legorol | so you want the scenario: Laptp <wireless> PC <-- cat5 --> router <> rest of network |
| 02:52.22 | Legorol | i'm assuming your PC has both a standard Ethernet card and a wireless network card |
| 02:52.28 | Kirov | Yes |
| 02:52.53 | Legorol | this router, is that one that connects you to the Internet? |
| 02:53.00 | Kirov | yes |
| 02:53.08 | Legorol | is the IP address in the PC on the router side a public one? |
| 02:53.19 | Kirov | router |
| 02:53.35 | Legorol | so is it a private IP address like 192.168... |
| 02:53.39 | Kirov | yes |
| 02:53.54 | Legorol | is your router a NAT device? |
| 02:54.10 | Kirov | not entirely sure |
| 02:54.26 | Legorol | well if your PC has a private IP but the router connects you to the Internet, i'm assuming it is |
| 02:54.45 | Kirov | Should be, not actually my router, it's my girlfriend's |
| 02:54.46 | Legorol | ok, you have two options, depending on how configurable your router is |
| 02:55.03 | Legorol | it's probably a standard household router, not very configurable at all.. |
| 02:55.06 | Kirov | My router is wireless / switch, which would solve the issue, but she doesn't like my router. |
| 02:55.23 | Legorol | so your best bet is to enable Internet Connection Sharing on your PC |
| 02:55.44 | Legorol | when doing so, you want the "public" interface to be the one going to the router, and the "private" interface be the wireless card |
| 02:55.59 | Legorol | the only gotcha you have to watch out for is IP addresses |
| 02:56.15 | Legorol | when you enable ICS in Windows, it will automagically assign 192.168.0.1 to the wireless network card in your PC |
| 02:56.34 | Legorol | which you would have to change, and change it to be on a *different* sub-net than the IP on the router side |
| 02:57.11 | Legorol | example: if your PC has the IP address 192.168.0.13 assigned to it by the router, then assign something like 192.168.10.1 to the wireless network card in it *after* enabling ICS |
| 02:57.24 | Legorol | and on your laptop, assign an IP that's in 192.168.10.x |
| 02:57.37 | Legorol | and set the default gateway of your laptop to 192.168.10.1 |
| 02:57.46 | Legorol | if any of this doesn't make sense, ask away |
| 02:57.51 | Legorol | i tried to confuse you as much as i could :D |
| 02:58.31 | MentalPower | legorol is very good at that :) |
| 02:58.37 | MentalPower | confusing that is :) |
| 02:58.40 | Legorol | :p |
| 02:58.48 | MentalPower | but he explains rather well afterwards |
| 02:58.52 | Legorol | rofl |
| 02:59.02 | Legorol | that's the downside of speaking before i think :D |
| 02:59.03 | MentalPower | hehe :) |
| 03:00.21 | Legorol | I think I have blown Kirov's mind.. he's gone |
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| 03:10.52 | Crispix | testing! |
| 03:10.56 | Crispix | yay! |
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| 03:16.06 | Esamynn | evening all |
| 03:17.27 | Cairenn | hi Esamynn |
| 03:22.13 | Miravlix | Those big optimizing sessions where you edit most of the code in one go, your never going to make it work again. :p |
| 03:22.27 | Tain | haha |
| 03:22.30 | JoshBorke | is there an invite to group throttle? |
| 03:22.31 | Miravlix | wtf, not even one syntax error |
| 03:22.42 | Tain | I know the feeling so well. |
| 03:23.07 | Miravlix | I just converted PartyQuest.lua to use local almost everywhere. |
| 03:23.28 | Miravlix | All function calls is local, all variables except saved is local. |
| 03:24.09 | Miravlix | If only we had a profile to check if it had any effect. |
| 03:24.15 | Esamynn | you're nuts |
| 03:25.00 | Miravlix | I have one hook function thats global and a few on hooks |
| 03:25.28 | Esamynn | for your sanity and everyone elses, you should make most things available globally, even if you use local pointers |
| 03:25.48 | Miravlix | To hell with everyone else, PQ isn't a library. :) |
| 03:26.13 | Esamynn | I said your sanity too :P |
| 03:26.22 | Miravlix | My sanity? |
| 03:26.22 | MentalPower | hehe, in our libraries (stubby and enhtooltip) most everything is local |
| 03:26.23 | Tain | There is an old axiom: “Never mud-wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig has fun.” |
| 03:26.32 | Miravlix | Emulating C .h makes me DARN SANE |
| 03:26.35 | MentalPower | the only exposed functions are the needed ones |
| 03:26.47 | Miravlix | That had made the code 9238298492348932843284 times easier to read and understand |
| 03:27.16 | Miravlix | Now I have a commented prototype section for eveyr addon someone else can read the top page or two and know everything the addon does |
| 03:27.29 | JoshBorke | ok, so i colud use some help, i don't understand the whole local thing and how to access it. currently i'm just creating a single global variable and dumping all my functions in that global variable. |
| 03:27.31 | Esamynn | ahh, I see |
| 03:27.46 | Miravlix | This is going to make shared codeing so much more efficent |
| 03:27.55 | Esamynn | local variables are faster to access, but they have limited scope |
| 03:27.57 | JoshBorke | how is that different from using local definitions in the lua? |
| 03:28.21 | Esamynn | a local variable is only available inside the block it is defined in |
| 03:28.26 | Miravlix | What where the numbers Esa? |
| 03:28.27 | Legorol | I am not sure making all functions and variables local is a good thing |
| 03:28.30 | Legorol | makes it harder to debug |
| 03:28.42 | Esamynn | my thoughts exactly Leg |
| 03:28.46 | Legorol | you might be better off leaving them global, with local references for speed |
| 03:29.05 | Tain | Damn just had a (I think) an almost epiphany moment, have to make a note of it so that I can evalutate tomorrow when I'm sober. |
| 03:29.09 | Miravlix | No I make them all local and make global referances when needed |
| 03:29.09 | Legorol | the Auctioneer guys got it right, imho |
| 03:29.21 | Kirov | or just make it all global until you're done |
| 03:29.35 | Legorol | the problem with that approach is that you are only making those things global that you want to expose to the public |
| 03:29.39 | Legorol | it's not enough for debugging |
| 03:29.44 | Legorol | Kirov's method works too, |
| 03:29.52 | Miravlix | No make it all local to start with and just do <addonname>_<function> = <function> |
| 03:29.55 | Legorol | but then if you want to add/change the code, you have to keep going through making things global/local |
| 03:30.10 | Esamynn | personally, I'm not convinced local function references provide that much of a performance boost, I the real benefit is in addressing your data structures |
| 03:30.15 | Legorol | Miravlix, that doesn't allow you to hook into them with debugging codes |
| 03:30.47 | Esamynn | Legorol, are you reading my mind? ;) |
| 03:30.47 | Miravlix | Basically you can do function functionname(...) end <addondir>_<functionname> = <functionname> |
| 03:30.49 | Legorol | for example, i like to hook into function codes with a debugging addon that will monitor calls/arguments/return values |
| 03:31.02 | Legorol | Miravlix, no that doesn't allow hooking |
| 03:31.52 | Legorol | if someone proceeds to hook <addondir>_<functionname>, the calls inside your addon still refer to the original unhooked one |
| 03:32.02 | Miravlix | But we use Sea.io.dprint |
| 03:32.14 | Legorol | that's a public function |
| 03:32.15 | Miravlix | You don't need to hook Cosmos addons if coded with propper debug |
| 03:32.17 | Legorol | and hookable |
| 03:32.38 | Legorol | coding debug prints into a function is sometimes not enough |
| 03:32.54 | Legorol | sometimes you want to see what arguments are passed to it, what are its return values, when is it called etc. |
| 03:33.14 | Legorol | instead of putting tons of dprints in place for all those cases, you can just hook functions on the fly to monitor them |
| 03:34.05 | Legorol | For example, I have a set of debugging utilities. One of the functions does this: /script DebugHook("SomeAddOn.someFunction") |
| 03:34.15 | Crispix | hrmmmm |
| 03:34.19 | Legorol | and it will monitor all calls to the function, arguments and return values |
| 03:34.20 | Crispix | http://andy.hadagoodday.com/images/desktops/Spring22307Vista.jpg there. |
| 03:34.51 | Miravlix | Bottom line is, it's propper codeing to have it all local. |
| 03:35.06 | Miravlix | We can reduce Cosmos FPS cost with this by a huge ammount |
| 03:35.20 | Legorol | you can achieve the same thing by using local references to the global objects |
| 03:35.38 | Miravlix | Focus on the important stuff here Leg |
| 03:35.43 | Miravlix | Not the freaking implementation |
| 03:36.01 | Miravlix | The implementation comes after we decided how to code. |
| 03:36.04 | Legorol | well if you have two ways of doing something, with the same performance results, but one allows easier debugging, i prefer that |
| 03:36.14 | Esamynn | He is Legorol, AddOns that are completely unhookable from the outside are a real pain in the ass |
| 03:36.34 | Legorol | Esamynn's point is valid too |
| 03:36.34 | Miravlix | No your on the wrong page here |
| 03:36.39 | Legorol | could be |
| 03:36.42 | Miravlix | This is about using Locals OR NOT |
| 03:36.54 | Miravlix | Not about how to program it after you use locals |
| 03:37.03 | Legorol | ok |
| 03:37.10 | Legorol | i agree that you should use locals, as much as you can |
| 03:37.16 | Legorol | i think we all agree on that |
| 03:37.30 | Esamynn | but overuse is possibly worse than no use |
| 03:37.40 | Miravlix | Well, if everyone agrees on that, why does no one use it? |
| 03:38.07 | Legorol | because until now people weren't too bothered, and because it's more troublesome to implement |
| 03:38.09 | JoshBorke | ( Miravlix ): i don't because i don't know how :D |
| 03:38.13 | Legorol | having everything global is very convenient |
| 03:38.20 | Legorol | people are lazy to carefully optimize |
| 03:38.28 | Legorol | whilst maintaining access to globals |
| 03:38.30 | Miravlix | And very FPS costly |
| 03:38.31 | Esamynn | I use local pointers to all my data structures, but i'm not convinced there is much real benefit to doing the same for functions, not to mention the problems presented by having most of your functions locally defined |
| 03:39.00 | Legorol | even local references to functions that are globally defined are a problem |
| 03:39.04 | Legorol | makes them unhookable |
| 03:39.07 | Miravlix | Actually using local makes your code way more readable |
| 03:39.11 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: what questions do you have about local? |
| 03:39.11 | Kirov | Something I'm working on ran out of local variables. >.< |
| 03:39.23 | Legorol | some of what we are arguing here comes down to personal preference |
| 03:39.24 | Miravlix | What you do is making a header section with local <functionname> |
| 03:39.51 | Miravlix | In that header section you create comments so someone else just by reading the header section can get a complete overview of all functions in the addon |
| 03:39.54 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): when i define functions as "local MyFunction" in my mod, how can I access it? |
| 03:40.09 | Legorol | Miravlix, do you then use those local names in the AddOn? |
| 03:40.15 | Esamynn | do you know what I mean by scope Josh? |
| 03:40.28 | Miravlix | Talking implementation |
| 03:40.46 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): yea, i know how to use local and scope and all that, but I don't know where the 'local function' is scoped to |
| 03:40.50 | JoshBorke | if that makes sense... |
| 03:41.00 | Miravlix | You would do function <addondir>_<functionname> when creating the function but calling <functionname> |
| 03:41.20 | Legorol | That makes the function unhookable |
| 03:41.30 | Miravlix | Then in the header secction that gives the total overview of the addon you would have -- This function is cool it does this that |
| 03:41.30 | Esamynn | ok, the scope of a local variable is anywhere inside the block you defined the variable in, after the point at which you define it, |
| 03:41.34 | Miravlix | no |
| 03:41.40 | Legorol | I understand what you are saying |
| 03:41.54 | Miravlix | local <functionname> = <addondir>_<functionname> |
| 03:41.54 | Legorol | that within the addon, you would just refer to them by <functionname> rather than <addondir>_<functionname> |
| 03:41.58 | Legorol | yeah |
| 03:42.01 | Esamynn | thus, if you make a local variable in the function, its scope is only inside that function and it cannot be addressed outside that function |
| 03:42.07 | Legorol | that makes it impossible to hook <addondir>_<functionname> |
| 03:42.23 | Miravlix | and I point to that so you can hook <functionname> |
| 03:42.49 | Legorol | ok, can i pastebin something? just to check i understand you correctly.. |
| 03:43.00 | Legorol | because i think we might be on 2 different wavelengths |
| 03:43.06 | Legorol | brb |
| 03:43.55 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): http://wow.pastebin.com/619367 |
| 03:43.59 | Miravlix | Esamynn: The more times a function is called the bigger the saving |
| 03:44.05 | JoshBorke | is an example of my question |
| 03:44.13 | Legorol | Miravlix: can you throw up a 3 line example on pastebin? |
| 03:44.18 | Miravlix | Sure |
| 03:44.21 | Legorol | thanks |
| 03:45.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:45.33 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 03:46.15 | Miravlix | http://wow.pastebin.com/619368 |
| 03:47.20 | Legorol | wb Cairenn |
| 03:47.36 | Cairenn | thanks |
| 03:47.43 | Legorol | Miravlix, ok that's what i thought you are doing |
| 03:47.47 | Legorol | i have two questions: |
| 03:48.07 | Legorol | if you actually have the file like this, the local variable SpeedFreakUnited will be nil |
| 03:48.07 | Miravlix | Doesn't that allow hooking RCATDN_SpeedFreakUnited |
| 03:48.33 | Miravlix | Then you wont get hooks with my code |
| 03:48.43 | Legorol | and the other is, if you use the variable SpeedFreakUnited within the addon, it doesn't allow hooking of RCATDN_SpeedFreakUnited |
| 03:48.44 | Miravlix | It's far more important that other programmers can read it |
| 03:49.15 | Legorol | ok it's a matter of your preference if you write your addon like this |
| 03:49.19 | Miravlix | If you want to debug, just do prints inside the functions |
| 03:49.27 | Legorol | however, you need to have the definition of the local after the actual function |
| 03:49.40 | Miravlix | That wont be possible |
| 03:49.50 | Legorol | http://wow.pastebin.com/619372 |
| 03:50.00 | Legorol | otherwise the local variable will have nil, and not a reference to the function |
| 03:50.02 | Miravlix | Doing it that way will not improve the code for shared development |
| 03:50.41 | Esamynn | JoshBorke:sorry, was called away, i'm looking now |
| 03:51.01 | JoshBorke | it's ok :-) i'm cleaning out my fraps videos |
| 03:51.04 | Legorol | you have to have the function actually defined before you can make a local reference to it |
| 03:51.33 | Esamynn | short answer, you can't any function you want to call from outside the block it is defined in (a file counts as a block) needs a global reference |
| 03:52.21 | Legorol | Miravlix, something that will be close to what you want: http://wow.pastebin.com/619375 |
| 03:52.33 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: now, you could use SetScript, but that would make hooking your frame's event functions a lot more problematic and really isn't worth it |
| 03:52.37 | Legorol | this has the definition of the locals at the start, so you can make it neat and put comments etc. |
| 03:52.54 | Legorol | but it actually works because it defines the references to the functions correctly |
| 03:53.12 | Miravlix | By going local in the first place, I get a significant speed advantage and a way to make the coders write a comment section that easily allow other coders to understand what the addon does, these two things far outweight the need for some random third party addon to hook our functions |
| 03:53.28 | Legorol | ok, that's your choice |
| 03:53.31 | Miravlix | But we can add a internal hook functions to all our Cosmos addons, to give the functionality |
| 03:53.58 | Legorol | I don't agree with that approach, but since this is a matter of opinion, let's agree to disagree :-) |
| 03:54.14 | Miravlix | You always disagree so what else is new |
| 03:54.18 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): what about local static values defined in the lua file, same thing, inaccessible? |
| 03:54.23 | Legorol | i try not to, these days |
| 03:54.29 | Miravlix | And I never agree to disagree over things like this, your to huffy about it |
| 03:54.33 | Esamynn | static? |
| 03:54.42 | Miravlix | It's not like there is right and wrongs here |
| 03:54.44 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): values rather than functions i should say :-) |
| 03:54.45 | Legorol | i also provided you with a working implementation of what you want |
| 03:54.57 | Legorol | indeed, there is no right and wrong |
| 03:55.18 | Miravlix | No you didn't |
| 03:55.28 | Esamynn | functions are first class objects, which means they have the same status as any other variable, thus, yes, the same is true of all local values |
| 03:55.31 | Miravlix | You sttill haven't understood the point of the header section |
| 03:55.58 | Legorol | is it purely there for commenting purposes? |
| 03:56.08 | Legorol | or do you actually intend to use the local variable SpeedFreakUnited |
| 03:56.17 | Legorol | if it's the second, your implementation simply does not work |
| 03:56.20 | Legorol | because of the way Lua is |
| 03:56.32 | Miravlix | It's there to enforce a codeing style that provides a easier incencitive to propperly comment |
| 03:57.01 | Legorol | i appreciate that, and i am trying to lend you a hand in implementing that |
| 03:57.13 | Legorol | i am not disagreeing anymore with what you are trying to do |
| 03:57.15 | Miravlix | And whats wrong with PartyQuest_HookUsUp()? |
| 03:57.28 | Legorol | i haven't looked at PQ code in a while, is it on SVN? |
| 03:57.47 | Miravlix | Not the version I just made with locals |
| 03:57.51 | JoshBorke | that's what WoWi needs! svn! |
| 03:57.58 | Legorol | lol |
| 03:58.00 | JoshBorke | then it will be complete! |
| 03:58.09 | Kirov | ... |
| 03:58.13 | Legorol | ok i don't know how your actual implementation in PQ looks like |
| 03:58.22 | Miravlix | Whatever you do /script DoHook(PartyQuests_HookIt("FUNCTIONNAME") ) |
| 03:58.28 | Legorol | but this example you pastebined: http://wow.pastebin.com/619368 doesn't work |
| 03:58.36 | Miravlix | Or you /script DoHook(FUNCTIONAME) |
| 03:58.42 | Legorol | that can work |
| 03:58.43 | Miravlix | Works well enough both ways |
| 03:58.53 | Legorol | nothing wrong with that |
| 03:59.18 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: what you can do is declare all your tables in global variables and then make local pointer variables to the globals, as long as you never reassign the global table, you can modify it's contents using the local pointer at will and get the speed benefits of local |
| 03:59.26 | Legorol | ok well i'll see how you implemented it when you commmit it on SVN |
| 03:59.34 | Legorol | i'm quite curious about it now :-) |
| 03:59.36 | Miravlix | I'm 100% against strange third party addons having ANY access what so ever to my internals |
| 03:59.47 | Esamynn | why? |
| 03:59.54 | Miravlix | b |
| 03:59.55 | Miravlix | u |
| 03:59.55 | Miravlix | g |
| 03:59.56 | Miravlix | s |
| 03:59.57 | Legorol | Esamynn, that's a matter of prefernce |
| 04:00.13 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): can you give me a pastebin example? |
| 04:00.18 | Esamynn | sure |
| 04:00.21 | Wobin_ | It's like a strange man with a rusty scalpel asking if he can borrow your spleen =) |
| 04:00.27 | Miravlix | I do not want a user to come and tell me this doesn't work and me being unable to find out why because it's due to a third party program messing with my addon |
| 04:00.36 | JoshBorke | ( Wobin_ ): can i borrow your spleen? i'll provide the scalpel |
| 04:00.56 | Miravlix | By going extream local I close down the window where things can go wrong |
| 04:00.57 | Wobin_ | JoshBorke: Sure! Let me just replace my current one with Miravlix's! |
| 04:02.12 | Miravlix | What I don't like is that it confines me to one file pr. addon |
| 04:02.27 | Miravlix | Because there is no addon environment |
| 04:02.51 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: here is an example from the next version of one of my AddOns: http://wow.pastebin.com/619386 |
| 04:03.38 | Legorol | Miravlix, there might be a way around that |
| 04:03.51 | Legorol | you make two files, each of which defines all their stuff within a single table |
| 04:03.57 | Legorol | you can make this table local to each file |
| 04:04.12 | Legorol | then you have a function in each file that returns a reference to the table |
| 04:04.18 | Miravlix | C++ background I guess, I like when my data is safe from tampering |
| 04:04.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 04:04.29 | Legorol | so in the other file, you call the function to get the reference |
| 04:04.42 | Legorol | granted this allows a 3rd party to do the same |
| 04:04.47 | Esamynn | Miravlix, you need to understand the principles behind the UI sand box |
| 04:04.47 | Miravlix | It's do able, but is in worth it? |
| 04:04.55 | Legorol | probably ont |
| 04:04.58 | Legorol | *not |
| 04:05.28 | Esamynn | AddOns are supposed to behave themselves, there really isn't any need to hedge against people mucking up things they shouldn't because it just isn't done |
| 04:05.42 | Miravlix | Esa: It would be nice to have global scope, addon scope, file scope, function scope |
| 04:05.56 | Legorol | you can have function scope |
| 04:06.09 | Miravlix | I have global, file and function |
| 04:06.12 | Legorol | yeah |
| 04:06.15 | Esamynn | Lua's wasn't designed for that, nor does the purposes it is used for really need such a thing |
| 04:06.16 | Miravlix | Proble is not addon |
| 04:06.40 | Legorol | Esamynn, I think Miravlix's point is that he doesn't want other AddOn *coders* mess with the AddOn from the outside |
| 04:06.43 | Esamynn | well it does if you deine your AddOn in a single file ;) |
| 04:07.04 | Miravlix | Esa: Funny. :P |
| 04:07.08 | JoshBorke | ( Esamynn ): so what then has access to the local variables? |
| 04:07.11 | Esamynn | my point is he needs to trust that they won't unless they have a good reason to |
| 04:07.23 | Miravlix | No I don't |
| 04:07.30 | Legorol | and this is where personal preference comes in to play |
| 04:07.37 | Miravlix | You keep getting bugs because everyone use global scope |
| 04:07.48 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: the code I pasted is at the top of my main file, everything defined below it in the file has access to the local pointers |
| 04:07.48 | Legorol | that's true |
| 04:07.57 | Legorol | but you get far less bugs because people hook into your stuff |
| 04:08.09 | Miravlix | If all addon programmers by default programmed for local scope, we would have far less issues to deal with. |
| 04:08.37 | Esamynn | heh, the current version doesn't have what I posted ;) |
| 04:09.08 | Legorol | I partially agree with that, I beleive that you should reduce global name space pollution, but still expose all of an AddOn's functions and data |
| 04:09.15 | Legorol | For example, by putting everything in a table |
| 04:09.50 | Legorol | anyway, i think we reached the limit point of this discussion |
| 04:09.59 | Legorol | Esamynn, JoshBorke, what were you guys working on :D |
| 04:10.02 | Miravlix | Making some debug function that allows you to go into the local file scope is definately a good practice |
| 04:10.16 | Miravlix | But don't code global just because some third party want to mess |
| 04:10.17 | Esamynn | he was asking about local variables |
| 04:10.34 | JoshBorke | i'm having trouble with variable local to the lua file |
| 04:10.35 | Esamynn | I posted an example of local pointers to global tables |
| 04:10.49 | JoshBorke | i understand locals inside functions and lower blocks |
| 04:10.59 | JoshBorke | just not on the lua level :-/ |
| 04:11.14 | Miravlix | It's the same as the function level |
| 04:11.15 | Esamynn | locals inside files follow exactly the same rules as they do inside any other "block" |
| 04:11.20 | Legorol | JoshBorke, this is the best way (imho) to look at it: |
| 04:11.26 | Miravlix | Globals is locals too just in the Global environment |
| 04:11.26 | Legorol | the entire Lua file is a single function |
| 04:11.39 | Legorol | when your AddOn loads, this function is read, and then executed |
| 04:11.43 | Miravlix | Wow.exe environment doesn't get poluted by lua globals |
| 04:11.45 | Legorol | this is exactly what the Lua engine is doing |
| 04:12.02 | Esamynn | Miravlix, no globals are stored in a table you can access, locals aren't |
| 04:12.07 | Legorol | it executes your .lua file when it loads it |
| 04:12.18 | Legorol | as if the inside of a single funciton with no argument and no return value |
| 04:12.34 | JoshBorke | so how can you use functions you define as local? |
| 04:12.39 | Miravlix | Esa: Yeah there is some build in advanced tools for working with Lua Level Scope |
| 04:12.53 | Esamynn | JoshBorke, you can only use them from inside the file you define them in |
| 04:13.04 | Miravlix | But there is nothing that prevent you from writing your own getglobal for your file scope |
| 04:13.06 | Legorol | JoshBorke, let me pastebin something for you |
| 04:13.08 | JoshBorke | but otherwise they are accessible to everything below them? |
| 04:13.13 | JoshBorke | in that one file? |
| 04:13.22 | JoshBorke | oh! i think the lightbulb just dinged! |
| 04:13.28 | Esamynn | yes exactly! |
| 04:13.36 | JoshBorke | ah ha! |
| 04:13.38 | clad|sleep | night all |
| 04:13.43 | JoshBorke | night clad|sleep |
| 04:14.15 | Esamynn | Miravlix: the WoW implementation of Lua doesn't allow for such a thing |
| 04:14.37 | Esamynn | night clad |
| 04:14.45 | Cairenn | night clad|sleep, sweet dreams |
| 04:15.27 | JoshBorke | so this is valid? http://wow.pastebin.com/619396 |
| 04:15.41 | Miravlix | In C++ I would make a new class and use that instead of local to create the file scope table. |
| 04:16.08 | Esamynn | JoshBorke: eys |
| 04:16.12 | JoshBorke | woohoo! |
| 04:16.40 | JoshBorke | of course, now that i have this knowledge, i don't really have many plans to use it... |
| 04:16.46 | JoshBorke | i can think of a few things |
| 04:16.50 | Miravlix | Let me SVN this speedfreak version of PQ, it seems to work in game with no problems. |
| 04:17.51 | Legorol | JoshBorke: http://wow.pastebin.com/619409 |
| 04:17.58 | Esamynn | Miravlix: keep in mind, Lua is a scripting language, not a full programming language, it has different principles |
| 04:17.59 | Tem | wasn't someone here working on an addon that popped up a button to remind you to turn Find Minerals/Herbs back on? |
| 04:18.04 | Esamynn | somewhat, anyways |
| 04:18.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@67.63.84.143) |
| 04:18.40 | Esamynn | Legorol: too slow, he already got it :P |
| 04:18.45 | Legorol | ah, bummer ;-) |
| 04:19.02 | JoshBorke | i was waiting out of respect though :_) and to make sure i didn't miss anything |
| 04:19.09 | Esamynn | the lightbulb went on right after you said you would pastbin something :) |
| 04:19.23 | Legorol | what i was trying to illustrate with the pastebin is: |
| 04:19.26 | JoshBorke | and the lightbulb was thanks to your explanation :D |
| 04:19.42 | Legorol | the local things, like var, littleFunctionA etc. are only visible inside the myBigFunction |
| 04:20.11 | JoshBorke | yea, i actually get it now :-) |
| 04:20.12 | Legorol | and a .lua file is just like the myBigFunction, except it's missing the first and last line |
| 04:20.15 | Legorol | oki |
| 04:20.17 | JoshBorke | before it was all a big blank |
| 04:20.17 | Esamynn | ooh oh, now lets explain closures! ;) |
| 04:20.23 | Legorol | yay! |
| 04:20.25 | Legorol | let's let's |
| 04:20.25 | JoshBorke | i have another question though :-) |
| 04:20.29 | Wobin_ | please =) |
| 04:20.30 | Legorol | they are the bestest thing ever |
| 04:20.32 | Legorol | i love closures |
| 04:20.33 | JoshBorke | that i asked earlier but still couldn't quite get |
| 04:20.34 | Esamynn | haha |
| 04:20.36 | Miravlix | SVN'ed it. |
| 04:20.41 | Legorol | goodie |
| 04:20.48 | JoshBorke | dare i ask what a closure is? |
| 04:20.53 | Legorol | yep you do |
| 04:20.54 | Legorol | you must! |
| 04:21.00 | Legorol | it's one of the most powerful things in Lua |
| 04:21.02 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 04:21.02 | Wobin_ | What are closures! |
| 04:21.06 | Wobin_ | er ? |
| 04:21.11 | Legorol | Esamynn, would you like to do the honors? |
| 04:21.11 | JoshBorke | s/!/?/ |
| 04:21.15 | Legorol | or shall we confuse them together ;-) |
| 04:21.41 | Esamynn | nah, you're so excited about it, i'll follow and fill in any gaps :) |
| 04:21.59 | Wobin_ | With spackle? |
| 04:24.03 | JoshBorke | http://pnuts.org/benchmark/pnuts.org/closure/closure.lua erm |
| 04:24.29 | JoshBorke | maybe i should just go to bed instead... |
| 04:24.39 | Miravlix | To use locals or not to use locals thats the question. |
| 04:25.20 | Miravlix | Thats what I implemented in the latest PartyQuest version. |
| 04:25.32 | Legorol | ok i see what you did |
| 04:25.39 | Miravlix | Now the next question is how to use it. |
| 04:25.55 | Esamynn | Legorol: now thats not fair :P |
| 04:25.58 | Legorol | your PQ implementation is different from your 3 line pastebin |
| 04:26.04 | Crispix | does anyone here know where dalinda Malem is? Thottbot, doesn't have corrdinate |
| 04:26.09 | JoshBorke | ok, i see, closures are kinda cool |
| 04:26.10 | Legorol | it makes sense the way you did it in PQ |
| 04:26.10 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 04:26.33 | Miravlix | I was trying to give you hooking ability and thought I had it in that example |
| 04:27.04 | Miravlix | I've not yet created the PQ with "How to use it" answered. |
| 04:27.08 | Legorol | ok, so, closures |
| 04:27.14 | JoshBorke | oh, but i already get it |
| 04:27.19 | Legorol | oh right :D |
| 04:27.21 | Legorol | too slow again.. |
| 04:27.29 | JoshBorke | i just pulled up the manual and started reading :D |
| 04:27.44 | Legorol | the Lua manual? or the Programming in Lua tutorial thingy |
| 04:27.51 | JoshBorke | programming in lua |
| 04:28.04 | Esamynn | yes, it's a good book :) |
| 04:28.14 | Legorol | that link isn't the best example of a closure |
| 04:28.20 | JoshBorke | i agree |
| 04:28.30 | JoshBorke | after reading the programming in lua portion, it's not very good at all :D |
| 04:28.32 | Esamynn | Legorol: in fact it's down right awful |
| 04:28.36 | Legorol | yup |
| 04:28.39 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 04:28.42 | Legorol | using a function arg as an upvalue, ick |
| 04:28.45 | Legorol | it works, but nasty |
| 04:29.11 | JoshBorke | ok, so my question, i'm trying to capture when heals are cast on a mouseover unit |
| 04:29.16 | Miravlix | For one thing, making DEBUG local was a bit over the top. doh |
| 04:29.29 | JoshBorke | basically whenever you have an enemy mob targeted and you start a heal |
| 04:30.00 | JoshBorke | so, they recommended earlier that i have an OnUpdate that checks for SpellIsTargeting() and then listen for SPELLCAST_START |
| 04:30.08 | Esamynn | http://wow.pastebin.com/619423 I added a better example of how closures can be used |
| 04:30.11 | JoshBorke | (and alternatively SPELLCAST_STOP for channeled spells) |
| 04:30.27 | Esamynn | ok, I added an example of how closures can be used here: http://wow.pastebin.com/619423 |
| 04:30.46 | Esamynn | bah, oops, was scrolled up, thought I hadn't gotten that one out |
| 04:30.55 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 04:31.19 | Legorol | darn, Esamynn beat me again |
| 04:31.36 | Legorol | mine is here: http://wow.pastebin.com/619425 |
| 04:31.54 | JoshBorke | yea, that's looks nifty |
| 04:31.55 | Miravlix | Esa: I don't understand how you expect your local thing to work |
| 04:32.02 | Esamynn | i'm copying/pasting Legorol ;) |
| 04:32.07 | Miravlix | When <variable> is a saved variable |
| 04:32.26 | Miravlix | You can't do local stuff = table, because it wont be red in until later |
| 04:32.35 | Legorol | Esamynn: not very beginner friendly example to closures :D |
| 04:32.37 | Miravlix | s/red/read/ |
| 04:32.56 | Esamynn | Legorol: true enough, it was a copy paste from real code |
| 04:33.00 | JoshBorke | ( Legorol ): indeed, your example is much more straight forward :D |
| 04:33.32 | JoshBorke | though Esamynn's example shows the practical use of it |
| 04:33.48 | Legorol | JoshBorke, there are two important elements to closures: 1) functions are first-class variables, so they can be passed around (and returned) just like any other value |
| 04:34.09 | Miravlix | Esamynn: What I do is setup local and assing them in variables_loaded |
| 04:34.12 | Legorol | 2) when you "create" a function, it forever retains a memory of any and all variables that it has access to |
| 04:34.24 | Esamynn | Miravlix: the point of the local table pointers is that i'm never going to re-assign the values of the global variables, thus I can manipulte the contents of the table as much as I want |
| 04:34.42 | Legorol | Actually I think writing it this way makes more sense: http://wow.pastebin.com/619427 |
| 04:34.43 | Esamynn | my saved Variables table is a global only table |
| 04:34.45 | Legorol | although both work |
| 04:35.06 | MentalPower | JoshBorke: theres an "UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT" event you can use |
| 04:35.12 | MentalPower | no OnUpdate required |
| 04:35.12 | Miravlix | Esa: Well, all addons I've worked on does 90+ of there work with the saved variable |
| 04:35.35 | Miravlix | So localing the savedvariables would be a nice benefit |
| 04:35.37 | Legorol | MentalPower: no he still needs OnUpdate i think |
| 04:36.00 | JoshBorke | ( MentalPower ): what if i mouseover a unit then start the spell cast? |
| 04:36.03 | Esamynn | I only used a SavedVariable for my settings, I don't touch it very often, if I did, I'm make a local pointer to it |
| 04:36.05 | Legorol | JoshBorke: there are currently two possible implementations of capturing heals, that will work in 1.10 |
| 04:36.22 | Esamynn | s/I'm/I'd/ |
| 04:37.12 | Legorol | JoshBorke: If I understand correctly, your problem is with the following situation: |
| 04:37.18 | Esamynn | Legorol: I liked the idea of hooken WorldFrame's OnMouseDown event |
| 04:37.32 | Esamynn | s/hooken/hooking/ |
| 04:37.33 | Legorol | someone hits the action button for a healing spell, and then mouses over the target and clicks them |
| 04:38.01 | Legorol | yes, Esamynn's suggestion with the OnMouseDown is the best solution |
| 04:38.26 | Legorol | actually hm.. |
| 04:38.33 | Legorol | yeah |
| 04:38.36 | Legorol | so you don't need OnUpdate |
| 04:38.45 | Legorol | MentalPower is right :-) |
| 04:39.04 | Legorol | You keep monitoring for mouseover targets with UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT, |
| 04:39.12 | Miravlix | Cursor change code needs OnUpdate. :P |
| 04:39.26 | Legorol | uh? we are talking about monitoring for healing casts |
| 04:39.50 | Legorol | If I understand correctly, you need 3 ingredients for it to work: |
| 04:40.09 | JoshBorke | ok, so UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT will flag that i'm over a unit (if there is a unit), then OnMouseDown i check to see if there is a mouseover unit, but how do i know that i was trying to cast a spell? |
| 04:40.09 | Legorol | 1) monitor units that are moused over with UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT |
| 04:40.10 | Esamynn | now, the potential problem I see with the event driven version, is if the user is lagging and SPELLCAST_START doesn't fire immediately, you could get the wrong unit |
| 04:40.25 | Legorol | 2) OnMouseDown you check if SpellIsTargeting() |
| 04:40.29 | Miravlix | Andu prefairs hooking worldframe mouse click |
| 04:40.40 | Legorol | 3) when SPELLCAST_START fires, you know you have a heal on target |
| 04:40.41 | Miravlix | He didn't like my event based with mouseover |
| 04:40.45 | Miravlix | generated to many events |
| 04:41.14 | Esamynn | Miravlix |
| 04:41.22 | Legorol | Esamynn: am i making it more complicating than it needs to be? |
| 04:41.23 | JoshBorke | so OnMouseDown, SpellIsTargeting() will still be true during a heal |
| 04:41.33 | Legorol | i'm not sure |
| 04:41.39 | Esamynn | Miravlix: but in 1.10 you can't hook the WorldFrame OnClick event |
| 04:41.42 | JoshBorke | that's what i was afraid of... |
| 04:41.43 | Legorol | i haven't done this before, AnduinLothar has though |
| 04:41.50 | Miravlix | Esa: yes you can |
| 04:41.52 | Legorol | Esamynn: you can hook OnMouseDown |
| 04:41.53 | Esamynn | actually, I haven't either |
| 04:41.55 | JoshBorke | he's doing it with arcanecastbars? |
| 04:41.55 | Legorol | you can't hook OnClick |
| 04:42.03 | Legorol | JoshBorke: yes |
| 04:42.04 | Esamynn | I know |
| 04:42.18 | JoshBorke | ko, i'll look into that closer |
| 04:42.21 | Miravlix | You can't hook the verylongnamedthing what is it SelectOrMouseMovmebtOrWhatever |
| 04:42.34 | Legorol | JoshBorke: i don't beleive that a 1.10-compatible version is publically available |
| 04:42.35 | JoshBorke | SelectOrMoveOrCamera? |
| 04:42.39 | Esamynn | but the OnClick event calls that function Mira |
| 04:42.46 | Esamynn | so you can't hook it |
| 04:42.50 | Legorol | that's not how it works |
| 04:42.51 | Miravlix | Andu uses worldframe click to get the dead body name is some cody |
| 04:42.59 | Legorol | he uses worldframe OnMouseDown |
| 04:43.01 | Codayus | ? |
| 04:43.02 | Legorol | not OnClick |
| 04:43.07 | Codayus | Oh, nm. |
| 04:43.07 | Miravlix | Instead of mouseover that generates to many events when he doesn't need to react |
| 04:43.26 | Miravlix | OnMouseDown = clicking with mouse |
| 04:43.35 | JoshBorke | would i need teh UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT? |
| 04:43.36 | Legorol | ok, then when you said "click", you confused us |
| 04:43.39 | Esamynn | yes, if you hook OnMouseDown, there is no need to monitor UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT |
| 04:43.41 | Miravlix | It's the same thing |
| 04:43.42 | Legorol | we all assumed you are talking about the OnClick handler |
| 04:43.57 | JoshBorke | couldn't i just check in OnMouseDown if UnitExists('mouseover')? |
| 04:44.03 | Legorol | yes you could |
| 04:44.19 | Esamynn | exactly JoshBorke |
| 04:44.21 | Legorol | Esamynn is right, you don't even need UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT then |
| 04:44.25 | JoshBorke | i like that :-) |
| 04:44.36 | JoshBorke | makes much more sense than the OnUpdate I was trying to do :-) |
| 04:44.56 | Legorol | i don't know if SpellIsTargeting is still true or not.. |
| 04:45.14 | Esamynn | I believe OnMouseDown fires BEFORE OnClick |
| 04:45.22 | Esamynn | haven't tested it |
| 04:45.39 | JoshBorke | i could probably test in 1.9 now to find out, that shouldn't be too hard |
| 04:46.05 | Miravlix | The solution works in 1.10 and 1.9 |
| 04:46.16 | MentalPower | Gnight folks |
| 04:46.20 | Esamynn | night |
| 04:46.26 | Cairenn | night Esamynn |
| 04:46.29 | Legorol | OnMouseDown does fire before OnClick |
| 04:46.29 | Miravlix | It's part of how we are fixing the 1.10 infected Cosmos addons |
| 04:46.31 | Esamynn | not me :P |
| 04:46.36 | Esamynn | MentalPower.... |
| 04:46.42 | Cairenn | errr, night MentalPower |
| 04:46.43 | JoshBorke | woohoo! you guys rock :-) |
| 04:46.44 | Legorol | that's not the issue, the question is if SpellIsTargeting is still true OnMouseDown |
| 04:46.45 | Cairenn | sweet dreams |
| 04:46.54 | MentalPower | lol, thanks Cairenn |
| 04:46.59 | MentalPower | :) |
| 04:47.14 | Legorol | actually, JoshBorke, why do you need to know if SpellIsTargeting()? |
| 04:47.30 | Esamynn | then SleppIsTargeting would still be true Legorol, because the event that casts the spell hasn't occured yet |
| 04:47.39 | Miravlix | What of the called function on mouse click calls the casting? |
| 04:47.47 | Esamynn | s/SleppIsTargeting/SpellIsTargeting/ |
| 04:48.02 | Miravlix | I know Andu detect rezzing in ArcanePartyBar with worldframe hooking |
| 04:48.08 | Legorol | yeah |
| 04:48.21 | JoshBorke | ( Legorol ): because I could have a valid target for a heal that is out of range, so i wouldn't be able to just check if the target is not friendly and the mouseover unit exists |
| 04:48.25 | Miravlix | So download it and read it's code. It's in alpha already |
| 04:48.26 | Legorol | the function that actually causes the spellcast to happen is CameraOrSelectOrMove |
| 04:49.09 | Legorol | hooking OnMouseDown on WorldFrame doesn't prevent CameraOrSelectOrMove() from being called from Bindings.xml |
| 04:49.14 | Legorol | whereas hooking OnClick() does |
| 04:49.51 | Esamynn | yes, so you store the name whenever you get an OnMouseDown where a spell is targetting and there is a mouseover unit, and then when you get SPELLCAST_START you store the current name |
| 04:50.06 | Esamynn | or SPELLCAST_STOP for instant cast spells |
| 04:50.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron| (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 04:50.47 | JoshBorke | instant cast spells ftl :-/ |
| 04:50.58 | Esamynn | I've never actully done it myself, but I know how it works :) |
| 04:51.44 | JoshBorke | background to my next question: i have a macro that loops through the raid members and finds the one with the lowest health and then casts a heal on that person. |
| 04:51.49 | Miravlix | Whats the best Trinket addon currently? |
| 04:52.05 | JoshBorke | question: is the only way to catch the target for those spells to hook CastSpell? |
| 04:52.20 | Gryphen | i like trinketmenu, best is by taste |
| 04:52.30 | JoshBorke | and if i do have to hook CastSpell, can I be reasonably assured that the <target> unit is the target for the spell? |
| 04:53.27 | Legorol | CastSpell doesn't have a target argument |
| 04:53.33 | Legorol | i'm not sure what you mean |
| 04:54.03 | Miravlix | It has in 1.10 |
| 04:54.05 | Kirov | Josh - not always, no |
| 04:54.38 | Miravlix | We get self CastSpell in 1.10, going to have to rewrite soo much code because of that. |
| 04:54.39 | JoshBorke | when CastSpell is called, is UnitName('target') always going to be who the spell is targetted on? |
| 04:54.45 | Esamynn | CastSpell has a target in 1.10 or a self target flag? |
| 04:54.54 | Miravlix | Self Target Flag |
| 04:54.57 | Miravlix | Like ActionButton |
| 04:55.00 | Esamynn | yah |
| 04:55.04 | Esamynn | that's what I thought |
| 04:55.19 | Legorol | JoshBorke: nope |
| 04:55.26 | Legorol | imagine that a person has an enemy targeted |
| 04:55.29 | Miravlix | I've created a few wild solution to work around the darn missing self tag |
| 04:55.30 | Esamynn | no Josh, because if you can't cast the spell on your current target the spell goes into targetting mode (unless it is a hostile spell) |
| 04:55.36 | Legorol | then calling CastSpell will initiate SpellIstargeting |
| 04:56.24 | JoshBorke | http://wow.pastebin.com/619441 is the macro I'm using |
| 04:56.39 | JoshBorke | in that case would what I said be accurate? |
| 04:57.11 | Kirov | yes |
| 04:57.17 | Legorol | what does CT_RA_Emergency_TargetMember do? |
| 04:57.26 | Legorol | if it selects a target, and that target is out of range, |
| 04:57.36 | Kirov | hmm |
| 04:57.37 | Legorol | then your /cast line will leave the spell in targeting mode |
| 04:57.54 | Legorol | in which case the last line, TargetLastTarget will cast the spell on that unit, if it's friendly |
| 04:58.01 | Legorol | or leave you in targeting mode if it's hostile |
| 04:58.43 | JoshBorke | hm |
| 04:59.02 | JoshBorke | i don't know that i've had it end up casting the heal on the target, but i can't remember |
| 05:00.26 | JoshBorke | well, what if i just said that i use the same idea as the Mouseover setup, where i just set a variable and wait for SPELLCAST_START |
| 05:01.11 | JoshBorke | well, i'd still get in wrong in the case you mention |
| 05:01.20 | Kirov | http://wow.pastebin.com/619449 |
| 05:01.21 | JoshBorke | :-( |
| 05:01.54 | Legorol | JoshBorke, what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 05:02.01 | Legorol | why do you need to know the name of the target you cast a spell on? |
| 05:02.01 | JoshBorke | ( Kirov ): not everyone will use the macro, i was just using it as a reference |
| 05:02.14 | JoshBorke | ( Legorol ): i'm trying to capture all the heals that are being cast in real time |
| 05:02.33 | JoshBorke | in this portion i'm trying to capture who the player is currently casting on |
| 05:02.54 | Legorol | so it's nothing to do with the macro you pastebined |
| 05:02.56 | Esamynn | i'm going back to coding guys, say my name to get my attention ;) |
| 05:03.26 | JoshBorke | the macro i pastebinned is just a case i thought of how i didn't know how to capture that spellcast |
| 05:03.55 | Legorol | ok Miravlix is right, the ArcanePartyBars in Cosmos has been updated for 1.10 |
| 05:04.17 | JoshBorke | look at that one? ^_^ |
| 05:04.35 | Kirov | After a spell cast, if SpellIsTargeting() is false, assuming it didn't fail for some other reason, the target would be your target |
| 05:05.28 | Legorol | nope |
| 05:05.37 | Legorol | if you click spell first, then you cast the spell on a friendly |
| 05:05.50 | Legorol | your target after the spell cast could still be the hostile you were targeting before |
| 05:06.04 | JoshBorke | what legorol said |
| 05:06.13 | Miravlix | Hmm, I remember some trinket addon that changed trinkets for you automatically, did they kill the ability to equip trinkets? |
| 05:06.17 | Legorol | that's exactly the scenario JoshBorke needs the addon for |
| 05:06.17 | Kirov | But then SpellIsTargeting() would return true |
| 05:06.26 | Legorol | no |
| 05:06.33 | Legorol | Kirov, imagine this scenario: i have a hostile targeted |
| 05:06.37 | Kirov | yes |
| 05:06.40 | JoshBorke | ( Kirov ): no because the spell would then be cast on kirov |
| 05:06.40 | Legorol | I click my healing spell action, |
| 05:06.44 | Legorol | then i click a friendly player |
| 05:06.46 | JoshBorke | er, on that person, lol |
| 05:06.51 | Legorol | the spell is successfully cast on the friendly |
| 05:06.54 | Legorol | but my target never changes |
| 05:06.57 | Kirov | right |
| 05:06.58 | Legorol | it is the hostile throghout |
| 05:07.05 | Kirov | Do you know what SpellIsTargeting() does? |
| 05:07.09 | Legorol | yes |
| 05:07.23 | Legorol | It tells you if the mousecursor is currently in targeting mode |
| 05:07.29 | Legorol | waiting for you to select a target for your spell |
| 05:07.45 | Legorol | at this point, if you click with the mouse, the spell targets that person, |
| 05:07.50 | Legorol | but your target doesn't change |
| 05:08.14 | Legorol | this is why JoshBorke needs his AddOn and the OnMouseDown hook |
| 05:08.54 | Legorol | ok maybe we are talking about 2 different things? |
| 05:09.03 | Legorol | JoshBorke: ArcanePartyBars does what you want (and lot more) |
| 05:09.08 | Legorol | if you can make sense of the code, look at taht |
| 05:09.31 | Kirov | hmm |
| 05:09.35 | JoshBorke | where's the newest version? do you know? |
| 05:09.42 | Legorol | in particular: ArcanePartyBars.WorldFrameOnMouseUp_Hook |
| 05:09.46 | Miravlix | aah, found it, I think it was ItemRack |
| 05:09.48 | Legorol | newest version is in Cosmos alpha |
| 05:09.58 | Kirov | Legorol - that works in 1.10? |
| 05:10.14 | Legorol | hooking OnMouseUp of WorldFrame? |
| 05:10.20 | Legorol | yes that works perfectly fine |
| 05:10.28 | Legorol | what you can't hook is CameraOrSelectOrMove() |
| 05:10.47 | Cairenn | *3* new sites in the last 2 weeks? hello? |
| 05:10.48 | Kirov | so, that's a valid alternative to hooking the mouse clicks ... interesting |
| 05:10.53 | Legorol | yes it i |
| 05:10.57 | Legorol | s/i/is |
| 05:11.09 | Legorol | just make sure you hook OnMouseUp or OnMouseDown, and *not* OnClick |
| 05:11.20 | Legorol | hooking WorldFrame:OnClick stops all keybindings from working |
| 05:11.26 | Legorol | i mean |
| 05:11.34 | Legorol | stops all bindings for mouseclicks |
| 05:11.45 | Legorol | e.g. clicking on world objects, NPCs etc. |
| 05:12.38 | Legorol | Kirov: technically, what people were doing before is not hooking mouse clicks, but instead hooking the functions that were executed from Bindings.xml |
| 05:12.52 | JoshBorke | ok, thanks for the help guys :_) |
| 05:12.53 | JoshBorke | g'night |
| 05:13.00 | Legorol | g'night |
| 05:13.08 | Cairenn | night JoshBorke |
| 05:13.08 | Legorol | The way mouseclicks are handled is that if you click on a frame with an OnClick handler, then the handler is executed |
| 05:13.34 | Legorol | if you click on something with no OnClick handler, instead the click is passed on to the Bindings engine, and whatever is bound to the appropriate mouse button in Bindings.xml is executed |
| 05:14.02 | Legorol | however, even when there is no OnClick handler, you can have an OnMouseDown/Up handler |
| 05:14.21 | Legorol | in which case your mouse clicks will trigger the OnMouseDown/Up handlers *and* will get passed on to the Bindings engine too |
| 05:33.03 | Miravlix | A much cleaner example of my codeing style is http://wow.pastebin.com/619480 with ultra local and all access in to the addon is through a class |
| 05:34.01 | Miravlix | So only thing you will see from the outside is in this is the MicroMacroMaker table. |
| 05:34.49 | Miravlix | That way all communication will go through sanctioned and controled channels. |
| 05:54.39 | Cairenn | night all |
| 06:34.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Azrael (n=sweede@71.194.83.65) |
| 06:35.10 | Azrael | to remove an element from a table (like table = {"A"=>1,"B"=>2,"C"=>3} ) i would do table.remove(table,"C") , right ? |
| 06:37.02 | Esamynn | table["C"] = nil |
| 06:37.33 | Esamynn | table.remove takes an integer as it's 2nd argument |
| 06:37.49 | Azrael | lame |
| 06:37.54 | Esamynn | its for manipulating the "array" portion of a table |
| 06:38.31 | Esamynn | now if you were indexing by the number you could do table.remove(table, 3) |
| 06:39.05 | Azrael | <see previous statement> |
| 06:39.06 | Azrael | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:39.28 | Esamynn | oh, I was confused by your syntax |
| 06:39.52 | Esamynn | that would actually be written as table = { "A", "B", "C" } |
| 06:40.17 | Esamynn | then to remove "C" you would do table.remove(table, 3) |
| 06:40.43 | Esamynn | or was I right the first time? |
| 06:40.50 | Azrael | well, the list is Character names and their current DKP, so the table looks like, |
| 06:41.08 | Azrael | KP_ROLL_PLAYERS = { ["geophery"] = { ["RaidPoints"] = -17.71, |
| 06:41.13 | Azrael | and so on |
| 06:41.18 | Esamynn | ok |
| 06:41.50 | Esamynn | so do remove geophery from the table you would write: KP_ROLL_PLAYERS ["geophery"] = nil |
| 06:41.59 | Esamynn | s/do/to/ |
| 06:42.37 | Esamynn | KP_ROLL_PLAYERS.geophery = nil would also be valid |
| 06:42.55 | Azrael | sweet.. |
| 06:43.02 | Esamynn | s/would/--would/ |
| 06:43.05 | Azrael | hehe |
| 06:43.40 | Esamynn | you can use the . operator to index tables, but remember table.1 is not table[1] it is table["1"] |
| 06:44.30 | Esamynn | anyways, glad I could help |
| 06:44.33 | Esamynn | good night all |
| 06:56.35 | Crispix | omg... |
| 06:56.49 | Crispix | I just got disconnected in a battleground :| |
| 07:12.21 | Miravlix | I died in a BG and didn't get disconnected. we where ahead 2/3 vs horde 1/3, suddently horde wins and nothing, BG ends and goes to -time left to leaving. |
| 07:12.31 | Miravlix | I was stuck in BG until I alt-f4'ed. :) |
| 07:12.38 | Miravlix | Atleast you got out! |
| 07:17.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:24.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malicor (n=mail@e178159151.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:25.07 | malicor | hi, i've got a question: |
| 07:25.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|_ (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 07:25.37 | Crispix | ? |
| 07:25.39 | malicor | i got an ActionButton in my mod, and i can drag an action from an existing actionslot (from the bar down) onto it |
| 07:26.00 | malicor | my problem: if i now press my actionbutton the action is executed, but the image of the button never ever is displayed |
| 07:26.06 | malicor | any idea whats wrong there ? |
| 07:27.00 | Kirov | Is your mod registered to all the proper events? |
| 07:27.23 | malicor | i dont know, at least to some, otherwise nothing would work ? |
| 07:27.48 | malicor | am i correct that the image has something to do with a 'texture' object ? is there an event for textures somehow ? (seems strange on the first thought to me) |
| 07:28.05 | Kirov | Don't need any events to be registered for it to work. |
| 07:28.15 | Kirov | (for it to cast or receive drags I mean) |
| 07:28.31 | Kirov | Do you know how to use RegisterEvent() ? |
| 07:29.00 | malicor | not really, no |
| 07:29.38 | Kirov | Have you looked at blizzard's code? |
| 07:29.57 | malicor | i have even copied big parts from the ActionButtonTemplate examples |
| 07:30.06 | malicor | (including lots of this:RegisterEvent("PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD"); |
| 07:30.12 | malicor | ...like events |
| 07:30.52 | Kirov | You shouldn't actually need much of that code. |
| 07:31.15 | Kirov | If your action button is inhereted from the action button it'll just work |
| 07:31.30 | malicor | what does that have to do with my no-image-on-my-button problem ? |
| 07:31.49 | malicor | i do have to copy the functions in the .lua file, right ? i cant inherit that stuff |
| 07:33.28 | Kirov | it doesn't exactly inherit those, but you should be able to just use them where they are. |
| 07:34.00 | Kirov | Look at MultiActionbars stuff |
| 07:34.16 | Kirov | Very little code overall |
| 07:34.22 | Kirov | Does what you're trying to do. |
| 07:34.23 | malicor | thats another mod ? |
| 07:34.38 | Kirov | No |
| 07:34.53 | Kirov | Those are part of Blizzard's ui |
| 07:36.02 | malicor | multiactionbars represents what in the game ? |
| 07:37.13 | Kirov | The extra action bars you can turn on in the interface options |
| 07:37.25 | Kirov | Bottom left, bottom right, right, and right 2 |
| 07:37.38 | malicor | ok |
| 07:37.52 | malicor | do i find there how to use the objects that i drag into my actionslot, too ? |
| 07:38.12 | malicor | like i want to press a selfdefined button to execute what i dragged into my (other) ActionButton |
| 07:40.50 | Kirov | ? |
| 07:41.12 | Kirov | Do you want this button to act exactly like a normal action button? |
| 07:43.15 | malicor | no |
| 07:43.34 | malicor | if i press a button there 's some /script code executed, is that correct ? |
| 07:43.56 | malicor | like /script castSpell("Superbomb (Level 12)"); |
| 07:45.08 | Kirov | ok, what exactly do you want this button to do? |
| 07:45.23 | malicor | output that text |
| 07:46.09 | Kirov | ignoring the underlying functionality and code, what do you want the button to be used for? |
| 07:46.32 | Kirov | Like, is it another action button you can drag spells on to to cast? |
| 07:47.24 | malicor | let me try to explain |
| 07:47.43 | malicor | i have button-A which inherits an ActionButton and represents an actionSlot i can drag spells to |
| 07:47.55 | malicor | then i have button-B which is a simple button |
| 07:48.04 | malicor | now i want to drag a spell onto button-A |
| 07:48.16 | malicor | then press button-B and output the script text from the thing pulled onto button-A |
| 07:49.10 | Kirov | like, an edit box that says, litterally, "/script CastSpellByName("SpellName(Rank 1)")" ? |
| 07:49.18 | malicor | yes |
| 07:49.33 | Kirov | Then why do you want the button to update? |
| 07:50.06 | malicor | dont understand what you mean there |
| 07:50.22 | Kirov | oh |
| 07:50.32 | Kirov | ok |
| 07:51.46 | Kirov | What you're trying to do is ubsurdly complex due to the fact there are no provided functions for getting what kind of item is on an action button. |
| 07:52.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 07:52.38 | Kirov | There are ways to get that info though, through some long-winded code |
| 07:52.40 | malicor | the idea in the long run is to have two actionbuttons button-A1 and button-A2 and output what both do when i press button-B |
| 07:53.34 | Kirov | http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=3242 |
| 07:54.21 | Kirov | Download that mod, look for the function SAS_GetActionInfo |
| 07:54.37 | malicor | ok, will do |
| 07:54.54 | Kirov | That'll farm the data from the action button. |
| 08:00.21 | krka|work | what are you discussing? |
| 08:01.38 | malicor | problems with ActionButtons |
| 08:02.33 | malicor | i have three buttons, Button-A1 and Button-A2 which both inherit ActionButton and Button-B which is a simple button, now i drag 2 spells onto Button-A1 and Button-A2, and want that once i press button-B it outputs the /script strings from Button-A1 and Button-A2 |
| 08:07.53 | malicor | gone to work now, will be back in 'bout an hour |
| 08:46.57 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 08:53.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 08:58.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 09:12.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malicor (n=mail@yath01.zar.cronon.net) |
| 09:14.04 | malicor | hi |
| 09:14.14 | Wobin_ | wb |
| 09:37.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:52.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 10:21.25 | Miravlix | Anyone checked addon memory use on test, the same addons I use on 1.9 with around 80 MB used, hits 110 MB on test |
| 10:22.10 | Miravlix | It was just something that puzzled me as I loged out, haven't done any research into it yet. |
| 10:32.42 | Wobin_ | Any good Wowxml tutorials out there? |
| 10:39.47 | malicor | one that explains you what ? |
| 10:41.04 | Wobin_ | Hm, I'm not sure, just a general overview one, I guess? |
| 10:41.27 | Wobin_ | My biggest stumbling block so far with addons is the graphics |
| 10:41.27 | malicor | overview about explaining how to write an addon ? |
| 10:41.43 | malicor | mine, too, its a bit tricky it seems |
| 10:41.49 | Wobin_ | How to write the XML file, really |
| 10:42.16 | krka|work | do what everyone else do, look in others xml and copy paste |
| 10:42.41 | Wobin_ | Yeah, well, I was wondering if anyone knew of a structured one that explained as it went... |
| 10:42.46 | malicor | krka: though that leads to a result in the long run it doesnt really teach the fundamental things, i think |
| 10:42.59 | malicor | i have a good example somewhere, but i cant find it right now, gimme a second |
| 10:43.17 | krka|work | i tend to learn from examples |
| 10:43.26 | krka|work | i guess people are different |
| 10:43.34 | krka|work | first examples, then look at reference at wowwiki |
| 10:44.37 | malicor | like i got a fundamental question that i cant find in examples: the thing you drag onto an ActionButton, its an object, right? |
| 10:44.53 | malicor | where do i find documentation about that object ? what methods it has, how its structured |
| 10:45.06 | krka|work | no, it's not an object |
| 10:45.09 | krka|work | it's an action slot |
| 10:45.19 | krka|work | actually... hmm |
| 10:45.26 | krka|work | it's a bit diffuse |
| 10:45.43 | krka|work | it's an object that we can't really control |
| 10:46.11 | krka|work | you can pickup inventory items, equipped items et.c. and then drop them to action buttons, inventory, et.c. |
| 10:46.23 | krka|work | all you can do is pickup and drop, really |
| 10:47.44 | malicor | my problem is that i drag one to my actionslot and drop it there, and it -is- in there, but the texture doesnt show up |
| 10:48.02 | malicor | i can press the 'empty' button and execute whatever i've dragged onto, but i cant see what it is |
| 10:48.25 | malicor | from what i have read an actionslot is actually nothing but a number between 1 and 120 |
| 10:48.58 | malicor | wobin: i cant find the example here, i will have to look at home (can tell you in 4 hours from now) |
| 10:49.10 | Wobin_ | malicor: cool =) |
| 10:49.49 | malicor | krka: and actually this texture problem is REALLY hard to solve, since i have no documentation about where it SHOULD be even |
| 10:50.23 | krka|work | texture doesn't show up? |
| 10:50.28 | malicor | no, it doesnt |
| 10:50.31 | krka|work | GetTexture(actionSlot) or something should give the texture |
| 10:50.47 | malicor | so where should that be called ? |
| 10:50.53 | krka|work | where you update it |
| 10:51.42 | malicor | another problem, but related to my previous: |
| 10:51.44 | krka|work | textureObject:SetTexture and this: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetActionTexture |
| 10:52.00 | krka|work | textureObject:SetTexture(GetActionTexture(actionSlot)) |
| 10:52.11 | malicor | lets say i have 3 buttons, button-A1 and button-A2 which inherit ActionButton, and button-B which is a simple button |
| 10:52.27 | malicor | i drag spell-A1 onto button-A1 and spell-A2 on button-A2 |
| 10:52.51 | malicor | now when i press button-B i want to output the /script text from button-A1 and button-A2 |
| 10:53.32 | malicor | how'd i do that ? |
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| 11:11.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-160.handshake.de) |
| 11:12.08 | Elkano | good (whatever) :) |
| 11:17.21 | Maldivia | good morning... it's always morning :) |
| 11:22.53 | Elkano | I know ^^ |
| 11:28.51 | malicor | :) |
| 11:29.46 | malicor | anyone knows how to get the action-string from a (filled) actionslot ? |
| 11:30.29 | [MoonWolf] | getactionstring ? |
| 11:31.14 | Elkano | http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API#Action_Functions |
| 11:31.36 | Elkano | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetActionText |
| 11:31.52 | Elkano | <3 wowwiki |
| 11:32.44 | [MoonWolf] | i was close |
| 11:33.03 | Elkano | ^^ |
| 11:34.07 | Elkano | but I'm allways happy if I find post in the official forums related to my addons :) this time it made me update one again after 5 month ^^ |
| 11:35.12 | malicor | i dont think this will give me what i m looking for |
| 11:35.34 | malicor | i want to have something like "/script CastSpellByName("Greater Healing of Power(Level 13)");" returned |
| 11:36.09 | [MoonWolf] | "Werewolves?Were? Wolves? Where Wolves? Half Man, Half Wolf? There are many men and many wolves, why would you want both?" |
| 11:37.05 | malicor | where were wherewolves when we were where we were ? |
| 11:42.19 | Wobin_ | dey do dough, don't dey dough? |
| 11:45.07 | [MoonWolf] | oh god, why did the wow trolls move the the betheseda forums |
| 11:45.39 | Josh|Sleep | morning |
| 11:49.42 | JoshBorke | ( malicor ): look at getButtonNameAndRank in whispercast, basically they scan the tooltip for the name and rank of the spell |
| 12:09.21 | krka|work | think i can get anyone to buy http://www.thottbot.com/?i=11749 at auction? |
| 12:09.22 | malicor | thanks josh |
| 12:09.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 12:09.56 | malicor | krka: yeah you can, but wont get much gold ? |
| 12:10.34 | krka|work | i have buyout at 5g now |
| 12:12.03 | malicor | 5g aint much to worry about, i think |
| 12:12.40 | Wobin_ | find out how much large glowing shards sell for |
| 12:12.47 | Wobin_ | and if it's more, DE it =P |
| 12:18.32 | malicor | whispercast seems NEAT on the first impression |
| 12:18.42 | krka|work | good point |
| 12:19.39 | malicor | 61kb lua file *phew* |
| 12:20.13 | JoshBorke | heh |
| 12:20.26 | malicor | anyone got a good help/tutorial for the whole binding issue ? do i assume correct that it is to save information ? |
| 12:22.00 | Wobin_ | I wish spells had spellids |
| 12:22.16 | Wobin_ | being able to reference spells by id would be so much better |
| 12:25.44 | malicor | if a spell ist cast, it ALWAYS triggers an event ? and any object can catch that event and do something ? |
| 12:26.34 | JoshBorke | SPELLCAST_START, SPELLCAST_STOP |
| 12:26.54 | JoshBorke | channeled spells and instant cast spells trigger SPELLCAST_STOP |
| 12:28.05 | malicor | are there spells that are not channeled or instant cast ? |
| 12:28.27 | JoshBorke | regular spells with cast times trigger SPELLCAST_START |
| 12:28.35 | malicor | ah |
| 12:28.52 | malicor | is drinking something a channeled spell ? |
| 12:29.11 | JoshBorke | drinking is gaining a buff |
| 12:29.17 | malicor | which aint a spell ? |
| 12:29.38 | [MoonWolf] | no |
| 12:29.44 | [MoonWolf] | a buff is something active on you |
| 12:30.01 | malicor | so what event does that trigger? |
| 12:30.10 | [MoonWolf] | player auras changed |
| 12:30.14 | [MoonWolf] | or something similar. |
| 12:30.19 | JoshBorke | yea, that's right |
| 12:30.27 | malicor | how can i know that ? is it written down somewhere ? wowwiki ? |
| 12:30.49 | [MoonWolf] | wowwiki event list, other players, common sense. |
| 12:31.02 | malicor | ha, ya cant program with common sense :) |
| 12:36.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Miravlix (i=dragon@0x3e42aafc.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 12:44.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:45.08 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 12:45.25 | Wobin_ | escared, yada, huggle yada |
| 12:45.29 | Wobin_ | =( |
| 12:46.04 | Shouryuu | and do notice that I am still alive |
| 12:46.19 | Wobin_ | All went well? |
| 12:46.25 | Wobin_ | Or at least better than you expected? |
| 12:46.27 | Shouryuu | Yeah |
| 12:46.29 | Shouryuu | far better |
| 12:46.41 | Shouryuu | I found my paper in the class, skipped the first our and filled it up |
| 12:46.46 | Shouryuu | *hour |
| 12:47.00 | Wobin_ | hehe =) Cool =) |
| 12:47.28 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 12:48.02 | malicor | what paper ? |
| 12:48.13 | Shouryuu | some important paper I had lost |
| 12:48.30 | Shouryuu | I would have been subject to public crucifiction if I hadn't found it |
| 12:50.13 | Wobin_ | (crucifixion.. I think?) |
| 12:50.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:50.21 | Wobin_ | (hrm, ...*looks it up |
| 12:50.22 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 12:50.23 | Wobin_ | *) |
| 12:50.29 | Shouryuu | probably |
| 12:50.35 | Shouryuu | it's crucifiction in french I guess |
| 12:52.50 | malicor | laters |
| 12:54.10 | Miravlix | Trying to run UICentral + Cosmos.exe = total mess |
| 12:55.54 | Shouryuu | doing something like foo(a) if not a then break end SomeStuffHere end will not execute SomeStuffHere unless a is entered? |
| 12:56.24 | Wobin_ | do you need the first end? |
| 12:56.43 | Wobin_ | oh wait |
| 12:56.46 | Shouryuu | end the if? |
| 12:56.49 | Wobin_ | yeah should be |
| 12:57.09 | Shouryuu | ok cool |
| 12:57.18 | Wobin_ | oh |
| 12:57.21 | Wobin_ | no =( |
| 12:57.27 | Wobin_ | if isn't considered a 'loop' |
| 12:57.49 | Shouryuu | so how do I do what I want? |
| 12:58.12 | Shouryuu | just make sure the user enters a value for a before actualy trying to do anything with a |
| 12:58.18 | Wobin_ | if a then Somestuffhere end? |
| 12:58.29 | Shouryuu | lol indeed |
| 12:59.02 | JoshBorke | Shouryuu: use return instead |
| 12:59.19 | JoshBorke | if you want to jump out of the function that is |
| 12:59.42 | JoshBorke | otherwise, why not just do if (a) then SomeStuffHere end? |
| 12:59.46 | Shouryuu | so returns just stops the function if the user didn't enter a? |
| 12:59.56 | JoshBorke | yes, return jumps out of the function :-) |
| 13:00.00 | Shouryuu | cool |
| 13:00.03 | JoshBorke | handy when you don't want the function to run at all :D |
| 13:00.21 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 13:00.26 | Shouryuu | which is what I need :p |
| 13:00.28 | JoshBorke | but you can't use return and then have code following it on the same level, ie if (a) then return; SomeStuffHere end is bad :D |
| 13:00.54 | Shouryuu | so wobin's proposition is better |
| 13:01.04 | Shouryuu | in my case? |
| 13:01.08 | Miravlix | Your marrying Wobin? |
| 13:01.13 | Shouryuu | Aye! |
| 13:01.16 | JoshBorke | yea, it would be the same thing effectively |
| 13:01.22 | Wobin_ | Oh. |
| 13:01.24 | Wobin_ | It's so sudden |
| 13:01.31 | JoshBorke | i dunno which is better from a performance perspective |
| 13:01.32 | Wobin_ | You didn't even take me out to dinner and a movie =( |
| 13:01.34 | Shouryuu | Sorry, I thought you knew |
| 13:01.39 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 13:01.49 | JoshBorke | Wobin_: don't you mean YOU didn't take him out? |
| 13:02.01 | Wobin_ | Oh that's right |
| 13:02.03 | Wobin_ | I proposed =P |
| 13:02.04 | JoshBorke | you are the one proposing after all |
| 13:02.06 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 13:02.08 | Wobin_ | Shouryuu is cheap =) |
| 13:02.46 | Wobin_ | We'll have to go to Canada =P |
| 13:02.53 | Wobin_ | Not sure where else it's legal =P |
| 13:03.02 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 13:03.27 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 13:05.50 | Miravlix | England, Denmark, etc. most of the world has legal marriages these days |
| 13:07.13 | Miravlix | Just a few backwards dinosaur countries left that has minorty hate laws |
| 13:10.22 | Shouryuu | is there a way to know if something is a table? |
| 13:10.29 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 13:10.39 | Wobin_ | getType? |
| 13:10.54 | Miravlix | Well just type(variable) == "table" |
| 13:10.54 | JoshBorke | type(blah) == 'table'? |
| 13:11.10 | Shouryuu | cool thanks |
| 13:13.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 13:14.40 | [MoonWolf] | in reality... at some point in your life your gonna walk in on a girl undressing... you will probably survive... |
| 13:16.58 | Shouryuu | I guess so |
| 13:21.46 | JoshBorke | [MoonWolf]: would a girl who just got out of the shower qualify also? |
| 13:22.01 | [MoonWolf] | i think so |
| 13:22.09 | JoshBorke | totally survived :D |
| 13:22.35 | [MoonWolf] | \o/ |
| 13:23.17 | JoshBorke | mornin' cair |
| 13:23.19 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 13:23.22 | Cairenn|sleep | hey :) |
| 13:23.51 | JoshBorke | i was just checking agains moonwolf's statement is all |
| 13:24.29 | [MoonWolf] | i was siply trying to get people to talk with something random and disturbing |
| 13:24.33 | [MoonWolf] | but i got little response. |
| 13:24.53 | Wobin_ | Alas |
| 13:24.59 | Cairenn | alack |
| 13:25.17 | Elkano | Ohayô Cairenn :) |
| 13:25.18 | JoshBorke | sala? |
| 13:25.32 | Tem_ | up early Cair? |
| 13:25.38 | Tem_ | or didn't go to sleep? |
| 13:25.39 | Cairenn | not overly |
| 13:25.51 | Cairenn | actually, yes I have slept, shockingly enough |
| 13:26.09 | Tem_ | that's always good:) |
| 13:26.18 | Cairenn | indeed :) |
| 13:27.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 13:27.48 | Tem | man what is up my internet tonight |
| 13:28.32 | [MoonWolf] | it wants a beer. |
| 13:30.03 | Shouryuu | who doesn't |
| 13:30.06 | JoshBorke | me |
| 13:30.14 | Shouryuu | you're weird |
| 13:30.17 | JoshBorke | i know |
| 13:30.35 | [MoonWolf] | lots of girls dont |
| 13:31.20 | [MoonWolf] | see |
| 13:32.37 | Shouryuu | hummm |
| 13:32.51 | Shouryuu | I need to get wow |
| 13:45.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 13:53.55 | Miravlix | That does help to have wow before starting to code addons |
| 14:00.38 | Shouryuu | hehe yeah |
| 14:00.53 | Shouryuu | anyways what I wanted to do ahs alredy been done so meh |
| 14:01.38 | Wobin_ | Ah the trick then is to do it again... but better =P |
| 14:31.40 | JoshBorke | pastebin rox |
| 14:48.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 14:48.48 | ckknight | hey all |
| 14:48.59 | JoshBorke | hola |
| 15:23.17 | Adrine | Mornin' folks. |
| 15:23.21 | JoshBorke | morning adrine |
| 15:32.16 | ckknight | anyone know German? I need 2 lines translated |
| 15:32.45 | JoshBorke | ich kann nicht deutsch sprechen! |
| 15:32.57 | ckknight | Das ist sehr Schade |
| 15:33.06 | JoshBorke | see, you're fine, you know german :D |
| 15:33.43 | ckknight | no I don't |
| 15:33.52 | ckknight | I know bad high school German |
| 15:34.05 | ckknight | btw, Deutsch is capitalized |
| 15:34.11 | ckknight | all nouns are |
| 15:34.23 | JoshBorke | i know, but i'm lazy :-P |
| 15:34.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 15:34.43 | Elkano | ckknight, what do you need? I'm a native. |
| 15:35.02 | ckknight | "Merge with %s" and "Switch to %s", where %s is the title of another plugin |
| 15:35.04 | Shouryuu | Worms has to be the best game ever |
| 15:35.34 | JoshBorke | i totally read 'worms has to be the worst game ever'...how is that? |
| 15:35.41 | Shouryuu | bad |
| 15:36.11 | JoshBorke | could it be the residual memory from reading worms? and i just said wor..st? |
| 15:36.25 | Elkano | hmmm... can you give a more clear example where these strings are used? |
| 15:36.43 | ckknight | I'm merging one plugin into another |
| 15:36.46 | Shouryuu | come on worms is so cool |
| 15:37.00 | Wobin_ | "Oh no!" "You'll regret that!" |
| 15:37.07 | Wobin_ | "Traitor!!" |
| 15:37.07 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:37.09 | Shouryuu | "revenge!" |
| 15:37.17 | ckknight | so the one seemlessly acts like it is part of the other |
| 15:37.36 | Elkano | of what kind are your 'plugins' or the addon that's merging them |
| 15:38.03 | Wobin_ | BossPanel |
| 15:38.13 | Wobin_ | and subsequent plugins |
| 15:38.47 | ckknight | soon as I get this translation, I'm releasing BossPanel 0.9 ;-) |
| 15:40.11 | Elkano | hmm... "Merge with %s" -> "Mit %s zusammenführen" / "Switch to %s" -> "Zu %s wechseln" I hope these fit meaning I got the use of the commnds right |
| 15:40.37 | ckknight | what's happening is that "Merge with %s" is in the mother menu, and %s is the title of the daughter plugin which merges with or becomes part of mother plugin |
| 15:41.15 | ckknight | then the "Switch to %s" also has the name of the daughter plugin, and clicking it switches the display between the mother and daughter |
| 15:41.29 | Elkano | so you put the entries from a sub menu one layer up? |
| 15:41.47 | ckknight | I don't understand the question |
| 15:42.48 | Elkano | well, I haven't used BossPanel so I'm not familiar with its plugin architecture ^^' |
| 15:43.03 | ckknight | plugins are just addons that go inside BossPanel |
| 15:43.16 | ckknight | when you right-click the plugin, you'll get the menu |
| 15:43.24 | ckknight | of the specific plugin |
| 15:44.10 | ckknight | "Merge with %s" is in the top level menu, which when checked has an arrow, that submenu contains "Switch to %s" |
| 15:45.36 | Elkano | so you have different groups of information that can be either shown one at a time independant or more than one merged into one frame? |
| 15:46.02 | ckknight | right |
| 15:48.26 | Elkano | so you add the info from %s to the current shown data? |
| 15:48.49 | ckknight | right |
| 15:49.07 | ckknight | they can function independently fine, but you may want to merge them for whatever purpose, such as merging a battlegrounds plugin with the honor plugin |
| 15:49.12 | ckknight | or something |
| 15:49.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge groll (n=hepp@62.119.159.41) |
| 15:50.14 | Elkano | there is also an option to unmerge them later, isn't there? |
| 15:50.29 | ckknight | the button has a check by it |
| 15:50.43 | ckknight | so by clicking the merge button again, it unchecks it and unmerges the plugins |
| 15:51.19 | Elkano | do you have a screenshot of that menu? |
| 15:51.33 | ckknight | sure, hang on |
| 15:53.37 | ckknight | there are actually 3 types of merges, one that adds information, and one that switches between the two, and one that adds to the tooltip but switches the text |
| 15:54.41 | Elkano | well, I think "Mit %s zusammenlegen" will be a good translation |
| 15:55.31 | ckknight | http://corporation.hopto.org:8080/merge.jpg |
| 15:56.58 | Elkano | so when you 'merge' but not 'switch', what will happen? Will the data from th merged in plugin be shown? |
| 15:57.45 | ckknight | if you have an inline merge, the switch button isn't shown, info always gets added |
| 15:57.59 | ckknight | if you have a switch merge, it'll show either one or the other |
| 15:58.18 | ckknight | if you have a switchtext merge, it'll be inline for the tooltip but switch for the text |
| 15:59.26 | Elkano | and it's up to the plugin which othr plugins can be merged in? in which plugins they can be merged in? how they'll be merged? |
| 15:59.44 | ckknight | the child does the merging, the parent has no control over it |
| 16:00.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust103.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:00.26 | Elkano | and the child can only be shown as a merge with it's parent? |
| 16:00.56 | ckknight | yes, but they can easily be split apart |
| 16:01.07 | ckknight | if you show the other plugin, it unmerges |
| 16:01.15 | ckknight | act like two independent plugins |
| 16:02.24 | Elkano | when a mergeable plugin is shown toplevel, will the merge options still be shown resulting the plugin vanishing toplevel if beeing merged |
| 16:03.22 | ckknight | if the two plugins are split apart, the merge button is still visible in the mother's menu. When that button is clicked, the child plugin hides, then merges into the mother |
| 16:03.37 | Elkano | nice :) |
| 16:04.13 | Elkano | ok, "zusammenlegen" realy seems to be a matching translation |
| 16:04.23 | ckknight | alright |
| 16:04.40 | ckknight | I currently merge the Honor plugin into Experience |
| 16:04.50 | ckknight | most of the time you're not going to be looking at both |
| 16:05.04 | ckknight | so it switches between them if you go to battlegrounds/pvp mode |
| 16:06.16 | ckknight | but you're fully able to split em apart and look at em both |
| 16:06.59 | Elkano | maybe you should consider making the list of mergable plugins 2nd level so vou have "merge with..." opening the list if there are to many possible children |
| 16:07.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 16:07.25 | ckknight | you'll be able to merge with more than one at a time |
| 16:08.27 | Elkano | well, I mean if there are 10 plugins that ould be merged with another, all ten would be listed. And I think merging isn't the only option shown in the menu |
| 16:09.09 | ckknight | yea, but that is an unlikely case |
| 16:09.36 | ckknight | if a situation like that arises, then I'll rethink the structure |
| 16:09.40 | ckknight | but as it stands, it works for now |
| 16:13.10 | Elkano | but I think I should start having a lok at bosspanel again :) even if I'll maybe lose some functionality compared to my current titan UI |
| 16:13.43 | ckknight | just tell me what you're missing ;-) |
| 16:15.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 16:16.17 | Elkano | btw: you said version 0.9... that many feaures to go up from 0.4.25? ^^ |
| 16:16.24 | ckknight | 1 |
| 16:16.34 | ckknight | just the merging/hooking thing |
| 16:16.42 | ckknight | it means it's becoming stable |
| 16:16.46 | ckknight | API freeze, etc. |
| 16:16.59 | ckknight | 0.9 is the last stage before 1.0 |
| 16:17.18 | Wobin_ | (except for 0.99, and 0.999...etc =)) |
| 16:17.33 | ckknight | yea, but I'm not going to do that |
| 16:17.41 | ckknight | the 0.9 signifies that 1.0 is coming close |
| 16:17.43 | Wobin_ | or 0.10 =) |
| 16:17.53 | ckknight | there's a reason I skipped from 0.4 to 0.9 |
| 16:17.58 | Elkano | ^^ |
| 16:18.47 | ckknight | instead of 0.5 |
| 16:19.09 | ckknight | this would've been 0.5, but it needs an API freeze |
| 16:28.27 | Adrine | Ahahahaha. |
| 16:28.29 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/itemMaker/?id=396 |
| 16:28.36 | Adrine | "Required Intelect: 400" |
| 16:33.26 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:35.29 | Elkano | ok ckknight, I've looked over the lit of plugins at wowi :) what's missing for me at first look (sometimes only some features of them): honor+, critline, guild, durability |
| 16:38.11 | Wobin_ | guild and durability exist |
| 16:38.15 | Wobin_ | and honor, I'm pretty sure |
| 16:38.32 | Wobin_ | critline is covered by recap, I've found... |
| 16:38.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:38.34 | Elkano | well as I said sometimes it's only missing features |
| 16:39.24 | Elkano | I think titan's honor+ does more than boss' honor, eg showing a kill counter in the bg list behind enemy players |
| 16:39.48 | Elkano | titan's guild also shows the public messages for guild members |
| 16:40.16 | Elkano | and durability shows the estimated repair cost and has auto repair at vendor |
| 16:40.38 | Elkano | but I judged the boss plugins only based upon the screenshots *duck* |
| 16:40.47 | Wobin_ | I know durability does the autorepair |
| 16:41.19 | Wobin_ | in that it puts up a window upon entering saying if you want to repair inventory/worn/both |
| 16:41.21 | Elkano | ah, k :) |
| 16:41.26 | ckknight | BossPanel - Honor has a kill counter |
| 16:41.47 | Wobin_ | And throw in feature requests to the associated plugin author's portals =) |
| 16:41.53 | Wobin_ | Like Garfields |
| 16:41.57 | Wobin_ | for guild |
| 16:42.05 | ckknight | yea, I'm sure he'd be happy to work on it |
| 16:42.21 | ckknight | I should make CritLine so people stop bitching... |
| 16:42.42 | Elkano | wrt honor+ http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1606 |
| 16:43.18 | Elkano | I just got used to it ^^ |
| 16:43.27 | ckknight | what's the issue? |
| 16:44.13 | ckknight | you talking about on the scoreboard? |
| 16:44.42 | Elkano | yes, maybe there is another addon that does the scoreboard stuff too |
| 16:44.49 | ckknight | Honor does that now |
| 16:44.53 | ckknight | within the past few versions |
| 16:45.01 | ckknight | changes the color of people's names to reflect their class |
| 16:45.06 | ckknight | and adds a Kills Today dealy |
| 16:46.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 16:47.07 | Elkano | well I think I'll simply give boss a try after 0.9 :) |
| 16:47.18 | ckknight | which will be in like 15 minutes or so |
| 16:50.58 | Elkano | ah another sort of plugin I'm missing: InventoryHawk (which won't have titan support with 1.10 anymore :/ ) |
| 16:52.01 | Wobin_ | what's that? |
| 16:53.26 | ckknight | what's it do? |
| 16:53.29 | Elkano | you can add items to a list and it keeps track of these items showing you how many of them you have in your bags |
| 16:53.38 | ckknight | oh, BossPanel - Farmer is in development |
| 16:53.41 | ckknight | I've talked to the dev |
| 16:53.44 | ckknight | does the same thing |
| 16:53.50 | Elkano | http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1093 |
| 16:55.44 | Wobin_ | oh I was considering writing that addon |
| 16:56.24 | ckknight | too late, mwahaha |
| 16:56.28 | ckknight | lol |
| 16:56.34 | ckknight | it's using SpecialEvents |
| 16:56.36 | ckknight | very clean |
| 16:57.21 | Wobin_ | one less thing to be concerned about =P |
| 16:58.42 | Tain | Ok, pushed out an official new release of Visor. |
| 17:04.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 17:09.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:25.10 | MentalPower | does anyone remember or have the link to the RandomProp and enchant lists in WoWWiki, the search function sucks |
| 17:31.25 | Elkano | http://www.wowwiki.com/Enchanting_by_Item ? |
| 17:32.27 | Elkano | http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_property ? |
| 17:32.32 | Elkano | http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_suffix ? |
| 17:34.10 | Wobin_ | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Enchanting ? |
| 17:41.38 | JoshBorke | Elkano: i wrote a mod that sort of does that |
| 17:49.33 | JoshBorke | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=&id=4671 |
| 18:13.08 | MentalPower | FOUND! http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ItemString |
| 18:18.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 18:19.34 | Qzot | Magandang umaga po sa inyong lahat! |
| 18:19.42 | Legorol | wow, whoever made that page, must have put a *lot* of effort into it |
| 18:21.36 | Wobin_ | oh |
| 18:21.39 | Wobin_ | That's really impressive |
| 18:22.09 | Wobin_ | Brodrick =) |
| 18:23.16 | MentalPower | yeah, its a real beuty |
| 18:31.03 | Qzot | url? |
| 18:31.27 | Qzot | (One advantage of my laptop -- with all my data -- going belly up is that I have time to clean my office. :P) |
| 18:31.43 | Shouryuu | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ItemString |
| 18:32.11 | Shouryuu | Always look on the birght side of life... |
| 18:39.42 | Qzot | Actually, that page is great. But it needs just a bit more synthesis to (a) delineate what currently in use (i.e. seen in the wild), and what isn't, and (b) to provide some formulas that map suffix ID to enhancement for the wild ones. |
| 18:51.59 | Shouryuu | w00t downloading 14 gigs of Anime, Only 72days left! Weeehhaa |
| 18:52.04 | Shouryuu | Can't wait! |
| 19:00.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide- (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:00.35 | Adrine | Wow. Rails looks like it could make stuff...stupidly easy. |
| 19:00.55 | Shouryuu | Rails? |
| 19:01.06 | Adrine | Ruby on Rails. Web application development framework. |
| 19:01.11 | Shouryuu | ah |
| 19:01.14 | Adrine | http://www.rubyonrails.org/ |
| 19:03.40 | ckknight | RoR is pretty neat |
| 19:12.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 19:14.15 | Tain | Lots of people love it and swear by it. |
| 19:14.46 | ckknight | I wouldn't use it in a production environment, but it's pretty shiny as a toy |
| 19:16.07 | Shouryuu | Anyone here uses trillian? |
| 19:16.14 | Cairenn|afk | I have |
| 19:16.30 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 19:16.33 | ckknight | I do |
| 19:16.47 | Shouryuu | Some random words are underlined by little green dots |
| 19:16.56 | Wobin_ | that's the wiki link |
| 19:17.00 | Shouryuu | it's wikipedia deciding to propose me a definition of the underlined word |
| 19:17.08 | Shouryuu | yeah how in god's name do I take that off |
| 19:19.00 | Wobin_ | options |
| 19:19.03 | Wobin_ | message windows |
| 19:19.09 | Wobin_ | Instant Lookup |
| 19:20.28 | Wobin_ | Nigjt! |
| 19:20.32 | Wobin_ | er Night |
| 19:21.36 | Cairenn|afk | night Wobin_Sleep |
| 19:22.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:22.54 | Wobin_Sleep | PS Did you get that Shou? |
| 19:23.29 | Shouryuu | nay =( |
| 19:23.31 | Wobin_Sleep | options->Message Windows->Instant Lookup |
| 19:23.53 | Shouryuu | Thank you |
| 19:23.57 | Wobin_Sleep | np |
| 19:24.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:26.42 | Adrine | ckknight: Why wouldn't you use it in production? |
| 19:37.15 | Shouryuu | lol I have a year of downloading before finsihing my file |
| 19:42.23 | Cairenn|afk | what the HELL are you downloading that it's going to take a YEAR? |
| 19:42.42 | JoshBorke | wouldn't you like to know ;-) |
| 19:42.54 | Cairenn|afk | not that badly |
| 19:43.37 | ckknight | Anime... |
| 19:44.01 | GenNMX|Thrae | Are you downloading all of Dragonball Z on a dial-up connection? That should take about a year. |
| 19:44.07 | GenNMX|Thrae | Takes me about 3 days or so. |
| 19:45.07 | JoshBorke | GenNMX|Thrae: do you do it often? |
| 19:45.08 | GenNMX|Thrae | Or, maybe he's downloading all of WoWI and going to make a new website based off the addons you exclusively host! |
| 19:45.21 | GenNMX|Thrae | JoshBorke: I download about 5GB per day |
| 19:45.41 | JoshBorke | how can you process that much data? |
| 19:45.54 | GenNMX|Thrae | 1TB network w/ 16x DVD burner |
| 19:46.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu_ (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:46.14 | JoshBorke | so you don't process it but rather archive it? |
| 19:46.17 | Shouryuu_ | and I need to reemphasize my earlier point: "Worms, rock!" |
| 19:46.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | I archive it until I have a chance to watch it, yes. The way the Internet works is that fansubbed Anime and other stuff will become slower and slower to download as people lose initial interest in it. |
| 19:48.06 | GenNMX|Thrae | Bleach Episode 10 Torrent may have 14 seeds now, but it had 1400+ seeds when it first came out. |
| 19:48.49 | JoshBorke | yea |
| 19:48.52 | JoshBorke | bleach = good :D |
| 19:51.33 | GenNMX|Thrae | Bleach >>>>>> Naruto |
| 19:52.03 | JoshBorke | GenNMX|Thrae: so really it's more of downloading things right as they come out, not necessarily 5GB every day |
| 19:52.24 | JoshBorke | because you'll have to process that 5GB of data at some point in time, |
| 19:52.30 | JoshBorke | blah, meant to hit backspace |
| 19:52.55 | GenNMX|Thrae | Go to http://www.baka-updates.com and tell me that can't be about 1-5GB per day |
| 19:55.16 | JoshBorke | then when do you watch them? if you download it every day? how do you stay up to date on them? do you take a day and not download or just resign yourself to always being behind? |
| 19:55.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Suntiger (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 19:55.57 | GenNMX|Thrae | Yeah, I have about 10 full seasons of series I'm behind on. |
| 19:56.09 | GenNMX|Thrae | Saving them for a rainy day. |
| 19:56.26 | GenNMX|Thrae | I used to never watch TV, so I was more up to date, but recently I've become fascinated with Law & Order. |
| 19:56.44 | Shouryuu_ | the 14gb file is bleach 1-69 |
| 19:57.02 | JoshBorke | who's release? |
| 19:57.06 | Shouryuu_ | Luna |
| 19:57.08 | Shouryuu_ | I think |
| 19:57.31 | GenNMX|Thrae | Just as long as its not HellFansubs |
| 19:57.59 | GenNMX|Thrae | Bleach, Law of Ueki, and most Harem shows I try to keep up to date on. |
| 20:01.10 | Shouryuu_ | Only seen one ep of bleach |
| 20:01.19 | Shouryuu_ | don't like looong series |
| 20:01.30 | Shouryuu_ | usualy like it when they stay in the 30 epis |
| 20:01.46 | Tain | 30 episodes? That's a single battle in Dragonball Z! |
| 20:02.47 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 20:02.50 | Shouryuu_ | yeah pretty much |
| 20:03.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@67.63.84.143) |
| 20:04.42 | GenNMX|Thrae | "Last Time on Dragonballz: Monkey-boy was powering up to battle the evil Fridgerazor. Can he power up in time?! Monkey-boy: AWWWWWWRRGGGHHHH!!!! *15 minutes later* Monkey-boy: ARRRGGGHHAAAWWWWAAUUGGHH!!!!" |
| 20:05.19 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 20:10.16 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 20:12.53 | zeeg | i remember that episode |
| 20:25.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 20:28.08 | Tain | A new Zelda game now announced, and that to go along with the new Super Mario Brothers platformer previously confirmed for the Nintendo DS. I'm just going to have to get one. |
| 20:28.37 | Shouryuu | I heard Worms was realesed on DS today |
| 20:29.18 | Tain | Yep that too. |
| 20:30.05 | Tain | It's the wireless multiplayer games that really make it work. |
| 20:30.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Hyper]Darshu (i=jb55@Toronto-HSE-ppp3692121.sympatico.ca) |
| 20:35.11 | GenNMX|Thrae | Tain: Yeah, I saw some screenshots. It will have Wind Waker graphics that are rudimentary 3D and with action resembling Minish Cap. |
| 20:37.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | I'm also very excited about Nintendo Revolution -- legal emulation on a console! |
| 20:38.30 | GenNMX|Thrae | Nintendo just announced that players will also be able to choose from 1000 Sega Genesis and Turbografx games. |
| 20:38.56 | GenNMX|Thrae | Of course, I fear they're going to do something stupid and try to sell the roms for over $1 |
| 20:40.22 | Tain | There's some gameplay video here: http://media.nintendo-europe.com/compel/video/cri9US3Ag5tBu3OkYw7e30hIK1Rv3Sa8.mov |
| 20:40.31 | Tain | (From Zelda) |
| 20:47.21 | GenNMX|Thrae | http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=e7a0f0e1-ecfd-4fc8-bca4-b9997c912a91 <-- Arkansas Scientist not allowed to say 'Evolution' in Class, nor can he even approximate the age of rocks (instead of "about 300 million", he must say "very, very old" |
| 20:51.39 | Tain | Well... they are very very old. |
| 20:54.34 | Shouryuu | And they are about 300 million years old as well |
| 20:56.28 | Iriel | that's so very sad. 8-( |
| 20:56.54 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 21:10.16 | Shouryuu | Zelda does look nice indeed |
| 21:14.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:14.54 | malreth | buy my hookers! |
| 21:29.10 | AnduinLothar | it is finiashed |
| 21:31.27 | Shouryuu | what is? |
| 21:35.44 | JoshBorke | bye :-) |
| 21:35.47 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 21:37.15 | malreth | tell us. malreth COMMANDS you... |
| 21:38.15 | AnduinLothar | finals |
| 21:40.58 | malreth | ah... grats |
| 21:41.05 | Shouryuu | how did they go? |
| 21:41.33 | malreth | my lolita girlfriend still has her finals coming up in a couple weeks |
| 21:41.40 | GenNMX|Thrae | Has anyone seen this yet, "Blizzard sued for blocking sales of unofficial guide": http://news.com.com/Warcraft+maker+sued+for+blocking+sales+of+unofficial+guide/2100-1043_3-6053716.html?tag=nefd.top |
| 21:41.53 | AnduinLothar | they sucked as usual |
| 21:42.37 | malreth | you know... anyone is free to sue Blizzard and Vivendi for anything. doesn't really mean anything |
| 21:43.13 | GenNMX|Thrae | Without seeing the guide, I have to agree that there must be a point where selling information on something isn't a red flag for copyright infringement. |
| 21:43.30 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: It does when Blizzard intentionally stopped sales of a third-party's guide. |
| 21:44.47 | malreth | true... he is probably not infringing on any copyrights. |
| 21:45.16 | malreth | but Vivendi's lawyers have to have something to do from 8-5 |
| 21:45.33 | GenNMX|Thrae | It's also news to me, since I thought Blizzard was more progressive then this. |
| 21:45.38 | malreth | oh well. it'll probably get settled out of court |
| 21:45.55 | malreth | companies are like hydra |
| 21:46.03 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well, Blizzard themselves was included in the suit. |
| 21:46.19 | malreth | some of the heads may be cool... but there's always the ones who are lawyers |
| 21:46.33 | sharkhat | GenNMX a big company like vivindi sometimes doesnt know what one hand is doing... |
| 21:46.46 | sharkhat | or somthing like that.. the left hand is not aware of what the right is doing? |
| 21:46.53 | malreth | and Vivendi is huge... |
| 21:46.56 | malreth | mega huge |
| 21:46.59 | sharkhat | way huge |
| 21:47.06 | malreth | OMEGA huge! |
| 21:47.11 | GenNMX|Thrae | Vivendi I can see, but Blizzard's lawyers would have to comply to be included in the suit. |
| 21:47.32 | malreth | yeah... they're lawyers. it's their job to be in court |
| 21:47.52 | malreth | it'd be like a tech support consultant who didn't answer phones |
| 21:48.04 | GenNMX|Thrae | I would hope the lawyers have their hands full trying to shut down piracy & gold-selling organizations ;) |
| 21:48.04 | malreth | or a cashier who didn't take money |
| 21:48.09 | Iriel | US trademark law says that you cannot keep a trademark you do not actively defend |
| 21:48.13 | Iriel | (or words that effect) |
| 21:48.20 | GenNMX|Thrae | Blizzard's lawyers anyway, Vivendi wouldn't care as much |
| 21:48.29 | malreth | or a hooker who didn't... |
| 21:48.32 | malreth | oh... |
| 21:49.10 | Iriel | Which is not to say that this suit in particular is or is not unjust |
| 21:50.10 | malreth | this line... In effect, if the video game industry's actions are upheld, "then selling a how-to book about Microsoft Word would infringe Microsoft's copyright |
| 21:50.26 | malreth | actually, you can't sell a how-to book about MS Word |
| 21:50.32 | GenNMX|Thrae | Iriel: There's a difference between normal litigation and harrasing litigation. As you can see in the article, they didn't even handle the matter properly with eBay and the client. Instead of contacting the client and eBay back about protesting the suit, they ignored them and just kept saying "It's wrong". |
| 21:51.11 | GenNMX|Thrae | Iriel: I can't think of a law that allows one side to ignore the opinions of the other, you need to at least say, "Fine, let's go to court." |
| 21:51.29 | Iriel | GenNMX|Thrae : Perhaps, that's what this article says, but it also says that the plaintiff didn't follow the process after the subsequent notices, and just created a second account. |
| 21:51.41 | Iriel | GenNMX|Thrae : Perhaps suing blizzard BEFORE that point would've been an idea |
| 21:51.57 | Iriel | GenNMX|Thrae : (and for all we know, he did, this article is low on meaty facts) |
| 21:52.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 21:52.34 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well that's what I would have done. I'm no lawyer, so litigation isn't my first choice. eBay was not following the letter of the law, so they were unjust in terminating his account just because of this. |
| 21:52.46 | GenNMX|Thrae | Again, assuming this article is factual. |
| 21:52.59 | malreth | eBay can terminate any account for any reason they want. |
| 21:53.16 | GenNMX|Thrae | Civil suits should always be the last resort. |
| 21:53.22 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: That doesn't make it just. |
| 21:53.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 21:54.34 | GenNMX|Thrae | More then likely, it was just as said before, lawyers being "proactive" and looking things to pick apart because they like being right and "winning" cases. The companies they represent may not have even known they were doing it. |
| 21:54.58 | malreth | well, they do have their trademarks to defend |
| 21:55.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 21:55.39 | GenNMX|Thrae | It's more of a question of copyright, not trademark. |
| 21:55.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 21:55.45 | Kirov | oi |
| 21:56.15 | malreth | that's what the article says... and news.com ain't exactly the best in reporting facts |
| 21:56.49 | malreth | either way, debating about this is irrelevant. Kopp is suing. |
| 21:56.56 | Iriel | Having now sat down and read the complaint, it does look like vivendi got a bit carried away |
| 21:56.59 | Kirov | well, there's a weird thing about trademark laws. |
| 21:57.39 | Iriel | Their arguments seem tenuous (Though I haven't seen the contents of the guide, perhaps there's something in there which is problematic) |
| 21:57.46 | Kirov | If someone is infringing on a trademark, and the trademark owner doesn't do anything about it, the person infringing on the trademark can sue the trademark holder and get the trademark transfered |
| 21:58.16 | Kirov | That's not exactly the way the law is stated, but it's how it's used |
| 21:58.25 | GenNMX|Thrae | Kirov: That's not what this case is, according to the quotes in the article. |
| 21:58.39 | GenNMX|Thrae | Right, we're all talking about hearsay here, but still. |
| 22:00.36 | GenNMX|Thrae | The lawyers are still part of Vivendi and Blizzard, so their views may reflect the company's views. That's the issue here. If Bush's wife goes off and starts saying abortions should be legal, that has repucussions ;) |
| 22:00.48 | malreth | irrelevant |
| 22:01.23 | malreth | be that as it may, Blizz and Viv can keep him from associating his guide with the "world of warcraft" name |
| 22:01.56 | GenNMX|Thrae | How can you make a guide about World of Warcraft if you do not mention World of Warcaft? |
| 22:01.59 | malreth | I think thhat if he called it "how to make lots of gold in a certain very popular online game", this probably wouldn't be going on |
| 22:02.21 | malreth | Viv and Blizz might try to stop it... but it'd be up to the courts to decide at that point |
| 22:02.52 | GenNMX|Thrae | That's like saying news publications should say "a certain very popular online game" instead of "World of Warcraft" |
| 22:02.54 | malreth | reword that to "how can you make a guide and *sell it for profit* about world of warcraft... yadda yadda yadda" |
| 22:03.07 | GenNMX|Thrae | News publications are also sold for profit... |
| 22:03.09 | malreth | does not follow |
| 22:03.23 | malreth | news publications aren't selling gold-earning guides |
| 22:03.57 | GenNMX|Thrae | What about columnists? They are allowed to give all sorts of advice. |
| 22:04.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 22:04.18 | GenNMX|Thrae | But anyway, back to what to the quote in the article, what about when someone makes a guide to Microsoft Word? |
| 22:04.41 | malreth | if you try to sell a book on MS word, MS will probably also ask you to stop. |
| 22:05.16 | malreth | publishing companies lawyers talk to MS's lawyers and work out an agreement before those kinds of books come out |
| 22:05.19 | GenNMX|Thrae | Yet the Public Collition or whatever claims that isn't the case. From what I know, there are precedents. |
| 22:06.27 | malreth | a lot of these arguments are fine-line distinctions... had he taken the exact copy of his book and put it on his webpage for people to read... there probably wouldn't be an issue |
| 22:06.43 | malreth | there are many such pages out on the net that detail money making schemes in WoW |
| 22:06.58 | malreth | some guides are even hosted by blizz themselves in the forums |
| 22:07.33 | malreth | but... the situation changes when you compile that information, bind it, and sell it through ebay |
| 22:07.56 | malreth | even if it's all 100% your hand... |
| 22:08.05 | GenNMX|Thrae | I'm talking about precedents like the guide of using Microsoft Word. |
| 22:08.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:09.04 | malreth | again, look at those guides in the bookstore on how to use MS Word. you'll see the disclaimer text at the front of the book |
| 22:09.48 | GenNMX|Thrae | Again, I'm talking about legal precedents. Do some Google searching if you don't believe me. |
| 22:11.09 | malreth | <shrug> |
| 22:11.29 | GenNMX|Thrae | You sound like Codayus ;) |
| 22:11.40 | malreth | Looking at a flash mx bible book, i'm seeing "macromedia, flash, etc used by permission" |
| 22:12.19 | malreth | either way, it's up to the courts to decide |
| 22:12.26 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 22:12.57 | malreth | like i said originally, you can sue anyone for anything in this country. means absolutely nothing |
| 22:13.21 | Shouryuu | the land of the free :P |
| 22:13.26 | malreth | and in this case, it is kopp suing blizz and viv... not the other way around |
| 22:13.38 | GenNMX|Thrae | Legal precedents, malreth, legal precedents. |
| 22:13.41 | Shouryuu | and for once France > USA! |
| 22:13.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well, after eBay was being threatened by suits and shut down his account. |
| 22:14.06 | Kirov | Shouryuu - ipod vs. france? |
| 22:14.09 | malreth | precedents are like quotes from the Bible... even the Devil can quote scripture |
| 22:14.11 | Shouryuu | Oh noez! |
| 22:14.38 | Kirov | can someone send me a link of this bliz stuff? |
| 22:15.59 | GenNMX|Thrae | Although precedents are supposed to be interpreted, still a lot of cases are decided on previous precedents. Just look at one of the most famous ones, Roe vs Wade (not a civil precedent). |
| 22:15.59 | malreth | and no one was threatening ebay with suits... dmca takedown notices aren't suits |
| 22:15.59 | malreth | hell, we get tons of dmca take down notices. |
| 22:16.00 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: The phrase 'Please comply or you will be faced with legal action' is normally included in those types of notices. |
| 22:16.04 | malreth | we have a script that handles them and disables students ports in their room |
| 22:16.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.30 | malreth | that was a threat against Kopp. not ebay. |
| 22:16.40 | GenNMX|Thrae | Although, you can assume you may be faced with legal action if you get a DCMA takedown notice, since it's a legally-binding notice. |
| 22:17.05 | malreth | and again, the wow name is blizz and viv's property. they dictate who uses it, when and how |
| 22:17.09 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: Read the article again, it was sent to eBay AND Kopp. If eBay never knew about the notices, they never would have suspended the account. |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:17.44 | GenNMX|Thrae | There's the 1st amenment to consider here, commericial or not. |
| 22:17.49 | malreth | "The companies went on to threaten copyright and trademark infringement action against Kopp." |
| 22:18.05 | GenNMX|Thrae | Kirov: http://news.com.com/Warcraft+maker+sued+for+blocking+sales+of+unofficial+guide/2100-1043_3-6053716.html?tag=nefd.top |
| 22:18.13 | MentalPower | Ok, random question. Does anyone know the function that fills tooltip info in the enchanting window? |
| 22:18.26 | MentalPower | specifically for the actual enchant? |
| 22:18.48 | malreth | the 1st amendment does not apply. |
| 22:18.51 | duke|ib | ...arguing about blizzard and banning people for shit they say on the forums or something? |
| 22:18.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: "Weeks after his first auction went live, Blizzard, Vivendi, and the ESA began sending repeated takedown notices under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), asking eBay to yank the auctions because of copyright and trademark infringement concerns." |
| 22:19.14 | duke|ib | ahhh |
| 22:19.17 | malreth | yeah... sending dmca take down notices... those aren't lawsuit threats |
| 22:19.24 | duke|ib | the dmca is a harsh (and dumb) mistress |
| 22:19.30 | GenNMX|Thrae | "But by November, eBay had accumulated enough takedown warnings from the companies to warrant suspending Kopp's account." |
| 22:19.38 | malreth | duke|ib: i agree |
| 22:19.52 | malreth | yep... ebay probably has a company policy on that |
| 22:20.03 | duke|ib | and banning the accounts, well |
| 22:20.09 | malreth | it was probably costing them time and money to deal with that one user. -bam- they nix the user |
| 22:20.11 | duke|ib | it's not like they still have to pay a monthly fee |
| 22:20.14 | duke|ib | :P |
| 22:20.19 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well, that sentence right there shows that eBay's lawyers at least thought the Blizzard lawyers were ready to sue. |
| 22:20.27 | malreth | no it doesn't |
| 22:20.36 | malreth | blizz can't sue ebay |
| 22:20.47 | duke|ib | it' |
| 22:20.55 | GenNMX|Thrae | Vivendi can sue eBay for not complying with DCMA, yes |
| 22:20.55 | malreth | ebay complied with the dmca take down notice so there's no grounds for a suit |
| 22:21.02 | malreth | but they complied |
| 22:21.05 | malreth | so they can't |
| 22:21.06 | GenNMX|Thrae | I'm talking about before they suspended the account. |
| 22:21.14 | malreth | yeah. i know |
| 22:21.19 | duke|ib | they still have to take down the auction and send the dmca notice |
| 22:21.48 | duke|ib | i'm sure ebay doesn't want to pay someone to sit there all day and look for dmca-violating auctions |
| 22:21.58 | duke|ib | having blizzard request takedowns is probably much more cost-effective :P |
| 22:22.46 | GenNMX|Thrae | When the Vivendi lawyers didn't respond to protests in 14 days, eBay and Kopp thought they gave up. Then Vivendi started threatening again, so eBay had to suspend the account pending litigation. Which is fine. |
| 22:23.19 | malreth | no... the 14 day thing is a part of the dmca procedure |
| 22:23.45 | malreth | and there is absolutely no mention of pending litigation |
| 22:23.50 | malreth | i just reread it |
| 22:23.57 | malreth | the way it works |
| 22:24.00 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well, pending potentional litigation. |
| 22:24.06 | malreth | it doesn't say that |
| 22:24.09 | malreth | and that's not how it works |
| 22:24.19 | malreth | here it goes |
| 22:24.29 | GenNMX|Thrae | That's exactly how it works! If you don't agree with the DCMA takedown notice, you're suppose to sue! |
| 22:24.45 | malreth | but they did comply with the take down notice... ebay did. |
| 22:24.59 | GenNMX|Thrae | Kopp is, not eBay. They got out of it by suspending Kopp's account. I'm saying they did the correct legal action. |
| 22:25.36 | malreth | kopp has nothing to do with the take down notice. that's between blizz and the carrier |
| 22:25.42 | malreth | ie: ebay |
| 22:25.51 | malreth | kopp puts up auction |
| 22:26.00 | malreth | blizz sends dmca notice to ebay |
| 22:26.05 | malreth | ebay suspends the auction |
| 22:26.18 | malreth | kopp counternotices to ebay |
| 22:26.28 | malreth | ebay passes the counternotice to blizz/viv |
| 22:26.28 | GenNMX|Thrae | Sorry, I meant about the copyright and trademark suits Vivendi was threatening Kopp with. |
| 22:26.46 | malreth | nothing comes back... 14 days later ebay is free to put those auctions back up |
| 22:27.06 | malreth | and in fact, they have to or they face a potential lawsuit from kopp for not complying with the dmca |
| 22:27.20 | malreth | auction goes back up... cycle repeats |
| 22:27.30 | malreth | that's the dmca in a nutshell |
| 22:27.40 | GenNMX|Thrae | Although Kopp was also free to sue Vivendi to argue that he wasn't violating the DCMA. |
| 22:27.47 | malreth | and that's also why the dmca is so stupid to begin with |
| 22:27.50 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: And I'm not debating that. |
| 22:28.00 | Ktron | anyone ever have a problem with the gamma when they're dead being way too bright? |
| 22:28.00 | malreth | yes... kopp IS free to sue vivendi |
| 22:28.18 | Qzot | I just heard some interesting news, unrelated to the current topic... |
| 22:28.26 | malreth | in fact... he's SO free to sue them... that he already has.. or at least started |
| 22:28.49 | GenNMX|Thrae | Ktron: Ghost mode has weird effects not processed the same by all video cards. My laptop, Ati Radeon 9000 Mobile, doesn't even make everything semi-black and white like my desktop does. |
| 22:29.15 | Ktron | psh... thanks GenNMX|Thrae |
| 22:29.20 | malreth | i thought the brightness thing was a recent bug with 1.9 |
| 22:29.23 | duke|ib | my cat is trying to eat my watch |
| 22:29.25 | duke|ib | aaaahhhhhhh |
| 22:29.35 | GenNMX|Thrae | Qzot: The current topic is, "Keep smiling! It makes people wonder what you are up to..." |
| 22:29.41 | Shouryuu | Qzot hit me! |
| 22:29.46 | Shouryuu | with the news that is |
| 22:31.17 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: Anyway, my entire beef with this incident is that a lot, if not most, copyright & tradmeark infringement claims by companies are logically and morally stupid. They may be *legally* sound, but the law in this case has so many holes and logical fallacies it's appalling. |
| 22:31.34 | malreth | that's how the lawyers like it |
| 22:31.40 | malreth | it's like brimstone for them |
| 22:31.47 | malreth | warm and inviting |
| 22:31.50 | malreth | mmm... |
| 22:31.59 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: Because the law is so imperfect, this case has first amenment rights issues. Another case could use its precedent (if Vivendi wins) to erode free speech further. |
| 22:32.15 | malreth | slippery slope argument |
| 22:32.37 | malreth | another case could also lose and further reinforce the other side of the argument |
| 22:32.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | The whole precedent system IS a slippery slope argument ;) |
| 22:33.29 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well, if I shot someone, and then a doctor saved his life, that doesn't negate the fact that I shot him in the first place. A wrong is a wrong even if it's righted. |
| 22:35.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem___ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 22:37.49 | Shouryuu | lol "A random lowbie was bugging our guild master for money so, through an elaborate scheme, we got him to delete his hearthstone then summoned him into southern winterspring... I think it was winterspring... somewhere with 60+ elite mobs." |
| 22:38.10 | malreth | heh... nice |
| 22:38.22 | malreth | wait |
| 22:38.25 | malreth | no... that's bad |
| 22:38.30 | malreth | i'm being evil malreth again |
| 22:38.33 | Adrine | Azshara would have been better. No inns. |
| 22:38.45 | malreth | ooh, true that Adrine |
| 22:38.52 | Elkano | :evil: |
| 22:39.03 | malreth | heh... up near stratholme... |
| 22:39.10 | malreth | no... I'm being evil again |
| 22:39.35 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:39.40 | Adrine | Unfortunately. :( |
| 22:39.52 | Adrine | But, if they were begging for money, maybe they don't know about it! |
| 22:40.03 | malreth | yeah, but if he was beggin-- ah, Adrine beat me to it |
| 22:40.05 | Qzot | Hmm. Best along the *shore* of Silithus. |
| 22:40.15 | malreth | ooh... |
| 22:40.27 | malreth | i was thinking that... qzot |
| 22:40.36 | malreth | but i was able to suppress it and remain good |
| 22:40.48 | Kirov | When ever people ask if they can have 5s, I tell them "sure, there's a couple mobs right outside, go start killing them" |
| 22:40.48 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 22:41.35 | Qzot | SWG was great that way. I'd say, "Sure!" They'd ask my waypoint. And I'd give them a waypoint for a mission terminal. |
| 22:41.43 | malreth | haha |
| 22:41.45 | GenNMX|Thrae | Kirov: Better to say, "I've planted 5s in 5 different monsters in Westfall. Their names are <insert humanoid names here>. Kill them and get your reward!" |
| 22:42.07 | malreth | gah, i miss waypoints |
| 22:42.18 | Kirov | that or the /e has pick pocketed 5s from %t |
| 22:42.35 | Iriel | Qzot's the only bay area one of you lot isn't he? |
| 22:42.37 | Iriel | Other than myself? |
| 22:42.49 | Kirov | I'm in san fran |
| 22:42.56 | Iriel | (Please re-arrange above sentences into vaguely appropriate grammatical form) |
| 22:42.58 | malreth | i'm in TTEXAS |
| 22:43.00 | GenNMX|Thrae | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:43.05 | malreth | the extra T is for EXTRA Texas |
| 22:43.08 | Adrine | <-- Phoenix, AZ |
| 22:43.40 | malreth | in Texas, everyone wears a cowboy hat and boots |
| 22:43.50 | Adrine | And speaks with a drawl |
| 22:43.52 | malreth | and belt buckles have a legal minimum size limit |
| 22:44.11 | malreth | when you are born in Texas, you are issued your social security number and your gun |
| 22:44.27 | Iriel | I have an extra ticket to tonight's Video Games Live concert in San Jose (unless someone comes back to me in the next 10 minutes to say they found someone who wanted to go) |
| 22:44.37 | GenNMX|Thrae | In Texas, the offense for jaywalking is the death penalty -- death by firing range. The local religious fundamentalist militia usually volunteers with their AK-47s designed to "hunt deer". |
| 22:44.50 | Qzot | Malreth: Are you using the Halwert Texas Joke Book? Or the Maywether one? |
| 22:44.54 | malreth | holy crap. i jaywalk all the time |
| 22:45.12 | malreth | Qzot: actually, those i just made up right now |
| 22:45.20 | malreth | someone put drivel like that into a book? |
| 22:45.21 | GenNMX|Thrae | True story, there is a liquor store with a drive-thru window in Texas. |
| 22:45.41 | malreth | GenNMX|Thrae: we have those all over the university area here... specially around the frat houses |
| 22:45.48 | Qzot | SoCal would have that if it were legal. |
| 22:46.02 | Qzot | They have drive-through grocery stores, and drive-through churches. |
| 22:46.17 | Qzot | I kid you not. |
| 22:46.44 | malreth | actually, there's a chain called the Liquor Barn... you drive into the store, you pays your money, and they load a keg into your truck or SUV |
| 22:46.44 | Shouryuu | Drive through churches lol |
| 22:47.31 | malreth | one especially nice one has a barbeque joint in the same building... beer AND ribs! |
| 22:47.38 | Qzot | Okay. I heard some interesting news, and the convo around the court suit has died down, so... |
| 22:47.47 | malreth | Qzot: RIBS! |
| 22:47.56 | Shouryuu | malreth: NEWS! |
| 22:48.44 | Qzot | On the phone with Blizzard today, their recording said that "Character transfers are not available yet. Please check worldofwrackcraft.com to know when it will be available." Or something like that. |
| 22:49.05 | Qzot | When I got a guy in the phone, he said they hope it will be ready in the "near future". |
| 22:49.20 | Shouryuu | character transfers from where to where? |
| 22:49.23 | Qzot | Transfer-for-pay, of course. |
| 22:49.33 | Qzot | Anywhere to anywhere, I assume. |
| 22:49.37 | Shouryuu | between Accounts? |
| 22:49.38 | malreth | worldofwrackcraft.com lol! |
| 22:49.53 | Qzot | Character between accounts, and character between realms. |
| 22:50.01 | Shouryuu | W00000000000000000000000000T |
| 22:50.06 | Qzot | With limitations, he said. Without being more specific. |
| 22:50.34 | Kirov | splitting characters from accounts will be nice. |
| 22:50.34 | Shouryuu | Finaly! I have two accounts, with my bros main on the same account as mine! I can finaly play my main, and so can he! |
| 22:50.35 | Qzot | malreth: I was cloes. |
| 22:50.39 | malreth | actually, i really did laugh out loud |
| 22:50.55 | malreth | ZOMG! |
| 22:50.56 | GenNMX|Thrae | Aww, I didn't scroll up and thought it was a real site ;) |
| 22:50.58 | Qzot | I can move my 58 lock, my 60 mage, and my rogue that has the baby murloc to the server I actually play on. :D |
| 22:51.09 | malreth | actually go there... there's all kinds of colors and sounds! |
| 22:51.14 | malreth | they look like dancing ladies! |
| 22:51.23 | malreth | ah ha h aaaa *gasp* |
| 22:51.42 | GenNMX|Thrae | I meant I tried to see the site and it said it didn't exist =/ |
| 22:51.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge {RA}BC-Werk (n=BC@216.31.182.146) |
| 22:52.18 | malreth | there's really a Texas joke book? people sell that stuff? |
| 22:52.26 | malreth | someone should sue them |
| 22:52.28 | Kirov | Sure |
| 22:52.28 | Qzot | GenNMX: What security level do you have set? It's an XXX site. |
| 22:52.49 | Qzot | malreth: I made those names up. |
| 22:53.09 | Kirov | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/races/dancing.html |
| 22:53.30 | GenNMX|Thrae | Qzot: Firefox on Debian Linux. |
| 22:53.49 | malreth | i managed to convince my lolita girlfriend to roll a female night elf... i get plenty of dancing to look at |
| 22:53.50 | Qzot | GenNMX: Nm. You can't access worldofwrackcraft.com without a subscription. Oh, wait. Give me your credit card number, and I'll get you access. |
| 22:54.26 | GenNMX|Thrae | Why do you refer to your girlfriend "lolita"? |
| 22:54.43 | {RA}BC-Werk | age? |
| 22:54.44 | malreth | cuz i'm like 28 and she looks 16 |
| 22:54.48 | {RA}BC-Werk | lol |
| 22:54.51 | Qzot | Eww. |
| 22:54.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | Is she 16? |
| 22:55.03 | malreth | our guild jokes with her cuz she sounds like a 12 year old on vent |
| 22:55.04 | Kirov | She's 13 |
| 22:55.08 | malreth | she's 24 |
| 22:55.10 | {RA}BC-Werk | lawl |
| 22:55.17 | GenNMX|Thrae | Do YOU look 28? |
| 22:55.30 | Kirov | He looks like he's 64 |
| 22:55.32 | malreth | i look like i'm in my 30s... hair's already thinning |
| 22:55.48 | malreth | genetics! you are a cruel mistress! |
| 22:55.53 | GenNMX|Thrae | Ah, I'm one of those people that looks like a teenager myself, despite being 25 in a week. |
| 22:56.02 | GenNMX|Thrae | The pimples help, of course. |
| 22:56.05 | malreth | haha! |
| 22:56.12 | Qzot | malreth: So true. My wife is studying genetics, and it's killing her. |
| 22:56.55 | GenNMX|Thrae | malreth: You laugh, but those lolitas are attracted to my young visage ;) |
| 22:57.14 | GenNMX|Thrae | They're so attracted I have to hide from them and never get to see them. |
| 22:57.18 | malreth | and she's chinese... she'll look almost 10 years younger for the rest of her life... well, for a while at least |
| 22:58.13 | malreth | and of course her parents hate me... |
| 22:58.26 | malreth | CUZ I TALK ABOUT HER ON IRC CHANNELS LOLOZ |
| 22:59.03 | Shouryuu | I need to read Lolita one day |
| 22:59.41 | Qzot | *cough* No, Shouryuu. You really don't. Trust me. |
| 22:59.55 | malreth | my previous gf and i dressed as Humbert Humbert and Lolita for holloween once |
| 22:59.56 | Shouryuu | Is it bad or just disturbing? |
| 23:00.10 | Shouryuu | malreth lol |
| 23:00.21 | GenNMX|Thrae | How do you "dress" as a Lolita? Sailor schoolgirl uniform? |
| 23:00.26 | malreth | we were going to a Liberal Arts honors party here at school... it was a hoot |
| 23:00.39 | malreth | people got it immediately when we entered the room |
| 23:00.52 | Codayus | It's not a bad book. |
| 23:01.08 | Codayus | And not really disturbing either. |
| 23:01.09 | malreth | people kept coming up to me and saying, "you are SO H.H.! -hic" |
| 23:01.20 | Qzot | Mmm. As to it's value as literature, I can't really say. I'm not into what high-falutin' scholars call literature these days. But it's "value" is in probing a tabu subject. Imho, one that need not be widely probed by most people. Disturbing. |
| 23:01.28 | Codayus | But like so much "Great Literature(tm)" it's also not very GOOD either. |
| 23:01.43 | Codayus | IMHO. :-) |
| 23:02.31 | malreth | yeah... like that Beowulf story... They couldn't even spell anything right! |
| 23:02.46 | Codayus | Honestly, I think I've read Anne MCaffrey novels which were more explicit and creepy. Um. Then again, that's setting the bar very very low, isn't it? :-P |
| 23:03.04 | Codayus | Okay, I read a Heinelin story that was...okay, actually, that's an even poorer example. :-D |
| 23:03.52 | Qzot | I don't mind "Great Literature" from the past. In part because what we consider great from the past is different than the "Great Literature" in its own time. Austen was not the main author of her day, but she's widely regarded as representative of her period today. |
| 23:03.53 | malreth | actually, i had an english lit prof once... first day of class she walks in and starts quoting from Beowulf... from memory... in Old English... |
| 23:04.05 | malreth | she went on for like 15 minutes |
| 23:04.17 | Codayus | malreth: See, that's impressive. |
| 23:04.22 | malreth | it was the most beautiful sounding prose... |
| 23:04.59 | malreth | hearing it is so much more impressive than just reading it... it was an oral story to begin with. print does not do it justice |
| 23:05.27 | Qzot | I walked into the first day of Spanish, and the instructor said not a single word of English. "Soy cruel!" as he whipped his blackboard pointer inches over our heads... |
| 23:05.29 | Shouryuu | old english is just cool just |
| 23:05.40 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:05.55 | malreth | then she said that she'd have pop quizzes every day about the previous night's reading and if if we ever got a question wrong, we'd drop a letter grade. |
| 23:06.08 | Shouryuu | ouch |
| 23:06.12 | Qzot | Turns out one of the best teachers I ever had, but he scared the bejeebers out of us that first day. |
| 23:06.14 | Shouryuu | broke the mood? |
| 23:06.16 | malreth | half the class wasn't there for the next lecture |
| 23:06.23 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:06.26 | Qzot | Lol. |
| 23:06.40 | malreth | BUT I PASSED! with a B |
| 23:06.51 | Shouryuu | aww Qzot you even Capitalized and punctuated that "Lol." |
| 23:06.52 | Qzot | First day of Introduction to Abstract Algebra: There are 5 of us sitting in the classroom... |
| 23:07.02 | Qzot | True story: "I grade on a curve." |
| 23:07.09 | Adrine | Hahah! |
| 23:07.10 | malreth | lol! |
| 23:07.25 | malreth | 5 go in... only 3 come out... smiling |
| 23:07.26 | Qzot | "One of you will get an A, one a B, one a C, one a D, and one will flunk." |
| 23:07.35 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:07.41 | Qzot | Stone cold face. And then he smiled. |
| 23:07.48 | Codayus | Heh |
| 23:07.54 | Codayus | Awww. You mean he was joking? |
| 23:07.56 | Codayus | What a wuss. |
| 23:07.59 | Codayus | :-P |
| 23:08.00 | Qzot | Yeah, he was joking. |
| 23:08.14 | Qzot | But he had us for about 10, 20 secs. |
| 23:08.43 | malreth | my lit prof wasn't. she was hella strict but she was the best prof i ever had. |
| 23:11.39 | Shouryuu | One of my french teachers had us do what he'd "Poetic "attacks" (attentat in french)". We'd have to burst into a random class, with stockings on our heads, and recite poetry... I actually got lucky go to say mine on the school speakers... |
| 23:11.52 | Tain | My first year Calc class started first day with 5 people. Third day there were 2. |
| 23:15.30 | Codayus | Okay, quick offtopic question. I have two html files on a server. When I follow a link to one of them, it displays. When I follow a link to the other, it says "You have chosen to open index.htm which is a: HTM file", and asks me where I want to save it. |
| 23:16.32 | Kirov | heh |
| 23:16.35 | Codayus | Why would that be? They have the same name, and are on the same server, just different directories. |
| 23:18.02 | malreth | you have different .htaccess files set up for the directories... i dunno |
| 23:18.20 | malreth | oop... gotta go. later all |
| 23:19.32 | Codayus | ..... |
| 23:19.35 | Codayus | WTF |
| 23:19.37 | Miravlix | wtb OnTocChange |
| 23:19.46 | Codayus | Where did that .htacces file come from. |
| 23:20.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.243.199) |
| 23:20.07 | Codayus | Okay, remind me to give malreth a hug next time he's on. :-( |
| 23:20.46 | Miravlix | I was told to remind you to give malreth a hug next time he is on. |
| 23:20.51 | Kirkburn | Why is it that demons look suspriciously like tauren (esp Kazzak)? |
| 23:21.58 | Kirkburn | Seriously, if you take away Kazzak's wings and make him hairy - he becomes a tauren |
| 23:22.30 | Kirkburn | (and very very angry) |
| 23:22.38 | Adrine | Huh. You all see this? |
| 23:22.39 | Adrine | http://www.50dkpminus.com/cthun.jpg |
| 23:22.46 | duke|ib | Codayus: you do know that any files starting with a . are hidden, right? |
| 23:22.47 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 23:22.48 | Cide- | lyes, and it's fake |
| 23:22.51 | Cide- | err, yes* |
| 23:22.57 | Cide- | the legendaries, anyway |
| 23:23.04 | Adrine | Heh, they did a good job of mixing in known items then. |
| 23:23.25 | Cide- | yep |
| 23:23.32 | Cide- | still fake nonetheless |
| 23:23.40 | Cide- | and there's definite proof, too :) |
| 23:23.43 | duke|ib | the legendaries...heh |
| 23:23.43 | Adrine | Oh? |
| 23:23.50 | Adrine | Color me curious. :) |
| 23:23.53 | Miravlix | Okay that sucked, spend an hour on implementing a craft window state saver, just to find out standard craft window doesn't have anything worth saving. |
| 23:23.53 | duke|ib | class: shaman/etc, but no paladins |
| 23:23.55 | Cide- | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-dungeons&t=421213&p=1&tmp=1#post421213 |
| 23:24.00 | Cide- | see my post(s) in that thread |
| 23:24.03 | Miravlix | Note to self: Research is good |
| 23:24.03 | Adrine | duke|ib: Paladins were able to use Thunderfury |
| 23:24.20 | duke|ib | Adrine: which isn't really suited to them at all |
| 23:24.22 | Adrine | Oh, duh. That's an easy check. |
| 23:24.29 | duke|ib | the caster legendaries would be |
| 23:24.32 | Adrine | duke|ib: I know, but still. :) |
| 23:24.32 | duke|ib | even though they're fake! |
| 23:24.47 | duke|ib | that's like saying quel'serrar is useful in the hands of a paladin |
| 23:24.51 | Adrine | Heh. Good catch, Cide. |
| 23:24.53 | duke|ib | sure, it looks cool...but why? |
| 23:25.06 | Kirkburn | Cide what do you use to look at that stuff? |
| 23:25.08 | duke|ib | the first thunderfury on our server went to a paladin |
| 23:25.09 | Codayus | duke|ib: Not if you use ls -al |
| 23:25.25 | Tain | Definitely a Hunter weapon. |
| 23:25.34 | Adrine | A hunter had the first TF on my server. |
| 23:25.40 | duke|ib | Codayus: -a Include directory entries whose names begin with a dot (.). |
| 23:25.41 | Cide- | the ctprofiles database, hehe |
| 23:25.43 | Adrine | In his defense, he won the first binding before anyone knew what it was for. |
| 23:25.43 | duke|ib | yup. |
| 23:25.55 | duke|ib | Adrine: hehe |
| 23:26.01 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 23:26.06 | duke|ib | Adrine: the paladin won both of the bindings in one night, after everyone knew what it was for |
| 23:26.09 | duke|ib | he quit about 2 weeks later |
| 23:26.19 | Adrine | ... |
| 23:26.26 | duke|ib | they just bought all of the elementium |
| 23:26.48 | duke|ib | wtf my cat is biting me again |
| 23:26.57 | duke|ib | little bastard |
| 23:27.00 | Codayus | duke|ib: Uh....right. That's what I just said... |
| 23:27.27 | duke|ib | Codayus: ...yes, but i also said they're hidden by default, and -a isn't default!~ |
| 23:28.05 | Kirkburn | You know what I think? I think Blizzard should tell us why Tauren are demons in disguise! |
| 23:28.24 | Kirkburn | With their glued-on wings and all |
| 23:28.35 | Adrine | You know, rather than being loot dazzled, I could have just plugged in some of the "new" items and seen what their ivalue is. |
| 23:28.37 | duke|ib | it's all an elegant farce made of paper mache |
| 23:29.20 | Codayus | duke|ib: You didn't say by default. :-) |
| 23:29.29 | Kirov | wow, I totally misread one of those items as "Clutch of the Testicle" |
| 23:29.48 | Kirov | epic jock strap |
| 23:30.02 | Adrine | Heh. |
| 23:30.19 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:31.23 | duke|ib | Codayus: doh |
| 23:31.38 | Adrine | I'm cutting out early. Have a good weekend, folks. |
| 23:31.52 | Codayus | :-p |
| 23:31.53 | Shouryuu | see ya |
| 23:31.53 | Kirov | cide - are you hooking OnMouseUp for the res monitor now? |
| 23:32.13 | Kirkburn | It would have been fun to have seen this when it happened ... http://forumpwnt.ytmnd.com/ |
| 23:33.04 | Shouryuu | I'm sick =( |
| 23:33.24 | Kirkburn | Well Tseric was pissed, apparently |
| 23:33.31 | Shouryuu | by what? |
| 23:33.35 | Kirkburn | But still /hug Shouryuu |
| 23:33.43 | Shouryuu | :P |
| 23:33.45 | Shouryuu | w00t |
| 23:34.00 | Kirkburn | The forum was without moderators for a couple of hours, kida went mad spamming |
| 23:34.02 | Kirkburn | *kids |
| 23:34.13 | Shouryuu | children... |
| 23:34.17 | Shouryuu | nowadays... |
| 23:34.21 | {RA}BC-Werk | :\ |
| 23:34.28 | Kirkburn | I guess this explains it a bit more... http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general/7080347.htm |
| 23:34.31 | Shouryuu | If they aren't burning cars in paris, they're spammin shit on the forums |
| 23:34.38 | Tain | haha |
| 23:35.22 | Kirkburn | (I have no idea why that ytmnd is supposedly NSFW, but thems the things) |
| 23:35.49 | Shouryuu | is the foreign news covering what's happening in france? |
| 23:36.40 | Kirkburn | I know that Chirac sulked cos he wasn't talked to in french |
| 23:36.58 | Shouryuu | when? By whom? |
| 23:37.20 | Kirkburn | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4840160.stm |
| 23:37.38 | Kirkburn | There was stuff on the BBC website earlier, but it's got pushed off the front page |
| 23:37.50 | Shouryuu | well my internet is angry |
| 23:37.56 | Shouryuu | won't load anything |
| 23:39.01 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 23:39.16 | Tain | What's happening in France? |
| 23:39.29 | Shouryuu | Violent demonstrations, again :p |
| 23:39.36 | Shouryuu | not racial riots |
| 23:39.43 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Adrine (n=Adrine@208.187.119.42) |
| 23:39.47 | Shouryuu | just demonstrations getting out of hand |
| 23:39.50 | Tain | What did someone piss in the cheese or something? |
| 23:39.54 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:40.26 | Shouryuu | Looonngg story, but there's this social reform plan our first minister put into motion which isn't pleasing everyone |
| 23:40.39 | Shouryuu | not even social reform |
| 23:40.43 | Shouryuu | that's too big a word |
| 23:41.16 | Codayus | That'd be the one to fiddle with contract terms for new graduates, right? |
| 23:41.22 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 23:41.24 | Codayus | Trying to bring down structureal unemployment? |
| 23:41.31 | Codayus | Yeah...fun stuff. |
| 23:42.22 | Kirov | http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-03-24T144316Z_01_L23178518_RTRUKOC_0_US-FRANCE.xml |
| 23:42.40 | Kirov | sounds like how Sweden works |
| 23:42.51 | Kirov | only it's 6 months there if I'm not mistaken, not 2 |
| 23:42.53 | Kirov | years |
| 23:43.13 | Shouryuu | no idea |
| 23:43.17 | Shouryuu | 2years here yes |
| 23:43.21 | Shouryuu | but in sweden |
| 23:43.38 | Kirkburn | ... the employees employ YOU |
| 23:43.42 | Tain | Down with employment! |
| 23:43.52 | Codayus | Like Shouryuu, I'm not familiar with the Swedish situation, but it sounds plausible. |
| 23:44.10 | Shouryuu | Well I've never understood this fear of unemployement |
| 23:44.30 | Kirkburn | Well the Swedish Situation ... very famous that ... involves lots of naked frolics in the snow and Abba. Huge amounts of Abba. |
| 23:44.30 | Tain | It's nowhere near as frightening as being employed. |
| 23:44.35 | Kirov | A friend of mine just got hired at Dice (Battlefield XXXX people) |
| 23:44.51 | Shouryuu | Abda please |
| 23:44.53 | Kirov | He has a 6 month "trial" period he has to go through. |
| 23:45.15 | Kirov | Not sure if it's a company thing or a swedish thing |
| 23:45.32 | Shouryuu | We have a trial periode here as well, well to be implemented |
| 23:45.53 | Kirkburn | Shouryuu, you realise that doesn't work? It's in capitals .... ADBA??? :P |
| 23:46.23 | Shouryuu | +( |
| 23:46.24 | Kirkburn | Also, you did it the wrong way around ;) |
| 23:46.31 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 23:46.36 | Shouryuu | was thinking about which was which |
| 23:46.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg2 (n=wguru@67.63.84.143) |
| 23:46.42 | Kirkburn | Adba ftw :D |
| 23:46.44 | Shouryuu | adba or abda |
| 23:46.46 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:47.08 | Kirkburn | Silly scandinavians |
| 23:47.21 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 23:47.34 | Shouryuu | Let's pick on Cide |
| 23:47.43 | Tain | I just signed paperwork for a four month contract position. I had to force myself not to start arguing about the silly wording in the "contract." |
| 23:47.45 | Shouryuu | (He's scandinavian right?) |
| 23:47.55 | Tain | Which isn't a contract at all, so I don't know why they even call it that. |
| 23:48.18 | Shouryuu | contract position? |
| 23:48.34 | Kirkburn | Tut tut tut ... http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=395474 |
| 23:49.05 | Tain | Really just working through one company for another, without that second company actually having to have the person as an employee. |
| 23:49.06 | Kirov | ahaha |
| 23:49.26 | Shouryuu | ah |
| 23:49.29 | Shouryuu | understood |
| 23:50.32 | Shouryuu | w00t 17sec in easy minesweeper |
| 23:50.42 | Kirov | bah |
| 23:50.52 | Kirov | My record is 7 seconds |
| 23:50.56 | Shouryuu | aww just did 14 |
| 23:51.02 | Kirkburn | 11 :( |
| 23:51.03 | Codayus | If anyone is interested, a good explanation of the proposed reforms is here: |
| 23:51.07 | Shouryuu | I'm on a mouse-pad |
| 23:51.07 | Codayus | http://econblog.aplia.com/2006/01/youth-unemployment-in-france.html |
| 23:51.22 | Kirkburn | Surely a chair would be better ... ? |
| 23:51.29 | Codayus | I suspect anyone who might be interested already knows, but you never know... :-) |
| 23:51.34 | Shouryuu | sorry ment touchpad |
| 23:51.46 | Kirov | shouryuu - that's pretty good then |
| 23:51.56 | Kirov | what are people's times for medium? |
| 23:52.00 | Shouryuu | nay, mice > touchpad |
| 23:52.03 | Kirov | My record is 24 seconds |
| 23:52.09 | Shouryuu | hummm |
| 23:52.11 | Shouryuu | never tried |
| 23:52.21 | Kirov | My advanced is crap though |
| 23:52.26 | Kirov | 300 something |
| 23:53.35 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 23:53.55 | Kirov | I used to see how tired I was in the morning by doing minesweeper |
| 23:54.02 | Kirkburn | Real or not? Real or not? http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=395474 |
| 23:54.05 | Shouryuu | loool |
| 23:54.22 | Kirov | If I did 18 seconds or less on my first try, I was ok. More than that and I was in for a long day. |
| 23:55.35 | Shouryuu | 24 on intermediate is nice |
| 23:56.37 | Shouryuu | its rather godamn impressive |
| 23:56.56 | Kirov | Only done it once though. |
| 23:57.02 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 23:57.04 | Kirov | Usually more like mid 40s |
| 23:58.15 | Shouryuu | I can't believe we're mesuring our Mineweeper times... "How long is yours?" "Mine's 28", "Wow , that's nice" |
| 23:59.16 | Kirov | How about lootlink database sizes. :p |
| 23:59.21 | Tain | 0 |
| 23:59.23 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 23:59.49 | Kirov | 49000+ ... and the 2 minute load time that comes with it |
| 23:59.51 | Kirov | yay |
| 23:59.56 | Shouryuu | lool |
| 23:59.58 | GenNMX|Thrae | Lootlink database sizes? Try Amount Of Addons Installed vs Average UI Memory Usage vs UI Load Time! |
