| 00:00.22 | Miravlix | We can't do fancy stuff like that at all? |
| 00:00.49 | Adrine | Perhaps set your addon LoadOnDemand and have a loader addon that loads the addon up if certain conditions are met? |
| 00:01.47 | Kirov | I really wish there was a concept of load on demand with in a mod |
| 00:02.01 | Kirov | ie: the first 4 files are load on start, the rest are load on demand |
| 00:02.23 | Kirov | reduce the folder spam in the Addons folder |
| 00:03.02 | Miravlix | Hmm, not even FunctionName = nil would unload the code. |
| 00:03.31 | Kirov | Well, it won't be dropped from memory until a garbage collection |
| 00:03.35 | Miravlix | I basically have to make a directory for every sub addon and ondemand them |
| 00:03.45 | Kirov | yep |
| 00:03.59 | Miravlix | Hmm, it will garbage it if nothing points to a function? |
| 00:04.19 | Kirov | should |
| 00:05.18 | Miravlix | Tempted to use that then, but it is kinda hackish in the extream |
| 00:05.53 | Kirov | What kind of addon is this |
| 00:06.24 | Miravlix | MicroMacroMaker, I'm working on. It's a library of macros with a nice Khaos interface for creating them. |
| 00:06.43 | Kirov | hmm |
| 00:07.08 | Miravlix | I would quickly end up with 10+ addons |
| 00:10.27 | Miravlix | But I've yet to write a ondemand loaded addon, gotta learn about how that works and see how I can bend and break it. :> |
| 00:13.22 | Miravlix | Maybe I just need one directory with subs I can fix to ondemand load parts of it. |
| 00:14.51 | Iriel | It should GC functions you discard, yes |
| 00:14.56 | Iriel | (Sorry, coming into this late) |
| 00:15.18 | Iriel | You dont even have to do OnLoad in xml if you dont want to, you can do all of your configuration in a .lua file that loads after your xml if you know what your frames are called |
| 00:15.52 | Miravlix | But how is the first function getting called without a xml onload? |
| 00:16.14 | Miravlix | or event handler and registerevents in xml |
| 00:16.27 | Iriel | Your .lua files just EXECUTE when wow loads them |
| 00:16.38 | Iriel | You can happily put calls to functions in them and they execute at load time |
| 00:16.48 | Miravlix | Offcourse |
| 00:16.50 | Kirov | item = "1:2:3:4" |
| 00:16.50 | Kirov | for num in string.gfind(item, "(%d+):%d+" do |
| 00:16.50 | Kirov | print(num) |
| 00:16.50 | Kirov | end |
| 00:16.51 | Kirov | should result in |
| 00:16.53 | Kirov | 1 |
| 00:16.55 | Kirov | 3 |
| 00:16.57 | Kirov | yes? |
| 00:17.09 | Miravlix | If you don't make it a function the code gets executed. |
| 00:17.15 | Miravlix | Damn I'm sleepy. :p |
| 00:17.16 | Iriel | Kirov: Probably 8-) |
| 00:17.21 | Iriel | Yes, exactly |
| 00:18.05 | Iriel | krov: Yes, it does, if you put the missing ) before do |
| 00:18.16 | Kirov | opps |
| 00:18.16 | Kirov | heh |
| 00:20.28 | Miravlix | So the smallest xml is <ui ...> <frame name="... > |
| 00:20.46 | Kirov | just <UI> is acceptable |
| 00:20.49 | Miravlix | And I only need a frame name if I want to register events and stuff |
| 00:21.18 | Kirov | Well, why would you want the frame otherwise? |
| 00:22.23 | Miravlix | Just cleaning up my xml codeing. |
| 00:22.42 | Miravlix | Well without the frame name I don't even need the XML? |
| 00:23.14 | Kirov | not really, no |
| 00:23.27 | Kirov | just load the .lua from the toc if that's all you're doing with the .xml |
| 00:23.38 | Qzot | Yello'. |
| 00:25.47 | Qzot | Iriel: You there? |
| 00:26.14 | Legorol | Technically the smallest valid XML is <Ui/> |
| 00:26.24 | Legorol | not very useful though :-) |
| 00:26.27 | Kirov | lol |
| 00:26.28 | Legorol | g'morning Cairenn |
| 00:26.38 | Cairenn | hey again |
| 00:26.39 | Qzot | Hmph. More UI code than I want to write. |
| 00:26.45 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:27.11 | Iriel | Partially here 8-) |
| 00:27.30 | Iriel | Legorol : Well, that's the smallest loadable XML |
| 00:27.47 | Iriel | Legorol : You might be able to argue it's invalid unless it's got a schema location attached |
| 00:28.07 | Legorol | schema reference is optional |
| 00:28.16 | Legorol | only necessary for validation, not interpretation |
| 00:28.19 | Iriel | I know it's optional in that context |
| 00:28.31 | Iriel | But how does WoW know it's not some other schema that also has a Ui element at its root?" |
| 00:28.40 | Iriel | (I"m playing devils' advocate, I realize wow doesn't care) |
| 00:29.00 | Legorol | i know exactly what you mean |
| 00:29.04 | Legorol | but even there, i beleive you are wrong |
| 00:29.15 | Legorol | it is perfectly valid in an XML application to take a file without a schema reference, |
| 00:29.22 | Legorol | and interpret it according to an assumed schema |
| 00:29.35 | Legorol | if the file doesn't confirm, then it's just an invalid input |
| 00:29.41 | Legorol | at least that's my interpretation/understanding |
| 00:30.19 | Legorol | *conform |
| 00:30.25 | Legorol | s/confirm/conform |
| 00:30.38 | Iriel | I'm not disagreeing that it's VALID for applications to read XML without a schema, most of mine do, in fact |
| 00:31.06 | Iriel | Just from a file format purist perspective, one can be handy 8-) |
| 00:31.25 | Legorol | i totally agree |
| 00:31.27 | Qzot | Iriel: Do you have another link discussing embeddable shared libs in WoW? |
| 00:31.33 | Legorol | and i wouldn't dream having WoW XML files without UI.xsd |
| 00:31.36 | Iriel | Another one beyond the first one? |
| 00:31.41 | Legorol | since most of the time i can't remember structre/attribs anyway |
| 00:31.45 | Iriel | Or just the link from last time? |
| 00:31.50 | Legorol | yay for XMLSpy that helps me fill them in :-) |
| 00:31.52 | Qzot | It has never given me anything except a blank page. |
| 00:32.06 | Legorol | ok, back to the regularly scheduled show ;-) |
| 00:32.13 | Iriel | http://www.iriel.org/wow/addondev/embedlibrary1.html |
| 00:32.14 | Qzot | Unless that was your intended opinion of embeddable shared libraries. :D |
| 00:32.15 | Iriel | That one? |
| 00:32.41 | Qzot | No. You previously gave me a link into the wow forums. |
| 00:33.12 | Iriel | Ah, I'll dig that out if it's still there |
| 00:34.38 | Iriel | Hm, I think the forum weevils may have eaten it |
| 00:34.48 | Qzot | Yup. |
| 00:34.51 | Qzot | Software rot. |
| 00:37.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:38.13 | Iriel | The forum thread was really just an introduction to the iriel.org page |
| 00:38.18 | Iriel | Which Malreth then mocked me for |
| 00:39.07 | Qzot | I have another suggestion to eliminate the versioning, but would slow the addon load process. |
| 00:39.24 | Iriel | IS this the checksumming we talked about? |
| 00:39.39 | Qzot | Yup. But coupled with a disposal mechanism. |
| 00:39.45 | Iriel | I decided that was too complicated and required each stub to carry a checksum implementation, seemed overly messy |
| 00:40.20 | Qzot | Knuth has a trivial string checksum implementation which should work just fine. |
| 00:40.44 | Iriel | Hm, I dont know if it'd be good enough for this kind of work. |
| 00:40.51 | Iriel | Who knows. |
| 00:40.53 | Qzot | How so? |
| 00:41.01 | Iriel | Well, the question is what the collision rate is |
| 00:41.09 | Qzot | His comment is pretty good: If you don't have a good reason to use something else, use this. |
| 00:41.37 | Qzot | Ah. You can make the collision rate arbitrarily low, modulo the word size. |
| 00:42.30 | Qzot | What I like about this approach is that it works in the presence of someone doing a whack job on the stub. |
| 00:42.45 | Iriel | Yeah, mostly. Unless they load last 8-) |
| 00:43.00 | Iriel | since they can happily trample all of your good intentions |
| 00:43.23 | Qzot | Well, with a checksum, it should be very hard for them to trample my good intentions. |
| 00:43.56 | Iriel | The other problem is.. what do you checksum? |
| 00:44.09 | Iriel | I'm assuming you'd have to go with loadstring |
| 00:44.31 | Qzot | If there isn't a way to do a reverse loadstring, yes. |
| 00:44.53 | Iriel | which means you lose some tricks with locals unless you structure your whole version as a single string |
| 00:44.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Meritt (n=meritt@207.40.190.7) |
| 00:44.54 | Qzot | I thought someone said that WoW opened that up ... forget the Lua function name. |
| 00:45.03 | Qzot | sec |
| 00:45.06 | Iriel | well, there's string.dump, but I dont know how reliable it is |
| 00:46.37 | Qzot | That's what I was thinking of. |
| 00:47.55 | Iriel | Anyway, versioning serves a dual purpose in mine |
| 00:48.03 | Iriel | And that's in directing the upgrade process for shared data |
| 00:48.04 | Qzot | Client packages would include Stubs.lua, and the various libraries. If Stubs.lua changes, all bets are off, probably. |
| 00:48.23 | Iriel | A lack of explicit minor versioning breaks that |
| 00:48.32 | Iriel | though perhaps you just cared about partitioned major versions |
| 00:48.32 | Qzot | Hmm. Good point. I guess I don't trust people to version correctly. |
| 00:49.04 | Iriel | That'd be because people always screw it up 8-) |
| 00:49.11 | Kirov | Iriel - using the subframe caching being done by CTRA, are there any conflicts with using "regular" frame calls to subframes, or subframes that aren't giving a table value? |
| 00:49.34 | Kirov | er, aren't given |
| 00:49.42 | Iriel | Kirov: Err, there shouldn't be, all my cache does is remember name->frame mappings without calls to GetName |
| 00:49.45 | Qzot | For my purposes, the stuff I'm wanting to library, the issues isn't so much the space taken with multiple copies of the same function, as not loading in a whole library for a couple functions. |
| 00:50.20 | Qzot | Anyway, back to my tweak of your idea: |
| 00:50.33 | Iriel | Kirov though I dont understand "subframes that aren't giving a table value?" in your question |
| 00:50.42 | Tem | Iriel: Is this a typo in the 1.10 changes thread? |
| 00:51.07 | Qzot | Yourpackage.xml loads Stubs.lua, SomeLib.lua, and YourPackage.lua, in that order. |
| 00:51.11 | Tem | Iriel: "justifyh = Font:GetJustifyH() " |
| 00:51.13 | Iriel | Tem: if it says "Tem's client will NOT crash randomly with no warning." then yes, the NOT is unintentional. |
| 00:51.24 | Kirov | Iriel - looks like something that they're doing apart from the frame caching |
| 00:51.25 | Qzot | SomeLib.lua defines a table in the global namespace. |
| 00:51.42 | Iriel | Qzot: Dont load stuff from .xml anymore, put the .lua in your .toc |
| 00:51.48 | Qzot | YourPackage.lua has a |
| 00:51.55 | Qzot | k. |
| 00:51.59 | Tem | Iriel: that's in the area with all the new FontString MessageFrame, ect methods |
| 00:52.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.13 | Tem | 4th from the bottom |
| 00:52.25 | Iriel | Tem: Hm, i'm not sure, one moment and i'll see if I can verify |
| 00:52.48 | Tem | all the others are [i]Frame[/i]:GetWhatever() |
| 00:53.05 | Qzot | In any case, YourPackage.lua call Stubs, and asks it to copy some list of functions it needs from SomeLib.lua to a table it provides. SomeLib is specified as a name in the global space. |
| 00:53.16 | Tem | oh there's also a "justifyV = Frame:GetJustifyV()" |
| 00:53.30 | Tem | that's what really made me think it was a typo |
| 00:53.58 | Qzot | Stubs uses string.dump to see if any of the requested functions are already loaded. Otherwise loads them. And then nils out the table defined by SomeLib.lua. |
| 00:54.32 | Qzot | SomeLib.lua would have a mechanism to say function x needs function y for completeness. |
| 00:56.04 | Iriel | It should be Frame |
| 00:57.21 | Tem | k, that makes more sense |
| 00:57.23 | Iriel | There's one on ScrollingMessageFrame EditBox SimpleHTML MessageFrame FontString |
| 00:57.23 | Tem | thanks |
| 00:58.33 | Iriel | Qzot: So basically your mechanism is more for a large library split into small potentially overlapping pieces across all of your addons? |
| 01:02.39 | Qzot | That's one aspect. |
| 01:02.56 | Qzot | Like, whole bunches of different ways to iterate over tables, or to sort them. |
| 01:03.12 | Qzot | Or, a subcommand parser. |
| 01:04.17 | Legorol | Iriel: have you done/do you intend to do a post with changes to existing API functions? |
| 01:04.23 | Qzot | Or, for example, the utility that underlies PartyAims and does the analysis for who it knows about in combat, redone in a style that's suitable for use with other addons. |
| 01:04.24 | Legorol | extra arguments/return values, changed behaviour etc. |
| 01:05.05 | Iriel | Legorol : I intend to, my lack of DSL for a week delayed me 8-( |
| 01:05.12 | Qzot | Ouch. |
| 01:05.28 | Iriel | Legorol : I'll try and do it this week |
| 01:05.30 | Legorol | ok cool |
| 01:05.33 | Legorol | no hurry at all |
| 01:05.41 | Legorol | i just wanted to add one to your list ;-) |
| 01:05.52 | Legorol | do you base the changes on Lua parses? |
| 01:05.56 | Legorol | especially Blizz Lua |
| 01:06.07 | Crispix | OH MY GOD!!!! :D |
| 01:06.24 | Legorol | GetInventorySlotInfo has a 3rd return value called checkRelic |
| 01:06.24 | Iriel | Legorol : I base it on a compare of my combined analyses, plus a manual review |
| 01:06.27 | Crispix | I just got a Charged Gear of Agility.. and last night I got a Charged Gear of Eluding.... |
| 01:06.36 | Legorol | but if you base it on blizz lua parse (at least in part), you will pick that up |
| 01:07.23 | Legorol | btw, I was thinking a bit about how to poke holes in the Lua protection |
| 01:07.37 | Legorol | I had an idea for getting untainted values at least into the global namespace |
| 01:07.43 | Legorol | but i'm not sure it's of much use |
| 01:08.06 | Iriel | I'm not sure it'll work 8-) |
| 01:08.21 | Legorol | i haven't tried yet so i can't tell, i'm fairly confident it will work |
| 01:08.26 | Iriel | Unless it's the old "put values into SavedVariables.lua" trick |
| 01:08.31 | Legorol | lol, you got me :D |
| 01:08.34 | Iriel | which would work for static values |
| 01:08.37 | Legorol | yep |
| 01:08.39 | Legorol | that's why it's not much use |
| 01:08.44 | Iriel | But nothing else, since slouken already recoded it to prevent dynamic content |
| 01:08.55 | Legorol | yup, it's now loaded rather than executed |
| 01:09.07 | Legorol | so i was thinking what i can do with untainted values... not much :D |
| 01:09.48 | Legorol | at least until such time as someone presents a formal proof that it can't be done |
| 01:09.54 | Legorol | :) |
| 01:10.02 | AnduinLothar | oh, leg, had a question |
| 01:10.12 | Legorol | sure |
| 01:10.22 | Qzot | Hmm. Were you guys tweaking the SavedVariables.lua?? Naughty, naughty. |
| 01:10.31 | Crispix | everybody look at my rings: hey |
| 01:10.37 | Crispix | http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?862049 |
| 01:10.39 | Crispix | ^____^ |
| 01:10.44 | AnduinLothar | you said you had an assertion a while back playing with IEF and MovePad. What assertion was it? |
| 01:11.07 | Crispix | Got the Charged Gear of Eluding last night, and got the Charged Gear of the Monkey today.....just like.. 10 minutes ago |
| 01:11.17 | Cairenn | Crispix: you said that already |
| 01:11.28 | Crispix | :D I'm excited... heheheh |
| 01:11.32 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You posted a tainting assertion at some point, I searched the wow binary for it and it's not there in the test server build, so if there WAS an assertion enabled build, it's gone now. |
| 01:12.02 | AnduinLothar | mmm, no. I got it in 5174 last night |
| 01:12.13 | AnduinLothar | I'm just wondering how leg got it |
| 01:13.47 | AnduinLothar | were you on windows leg? |
| 01:13.47 | Legorol | i got a #132 crash when i was playing with some random code involving metatables on the global namespace and MovePad |
| 01:13.50 | Legorol | but i can't reproduce it |
| 01:13.51 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : On the public test realm? |
| 01:13.55 | Legorol | I don't think IEF was involved |
| 01:14.01 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Or an internal build with the same version? |
| 01:14.14 | Kirov | Crispix - http://www.thottbot.com/?i=37909 http://www.thottbot.com/?i=46334 http://www.thottbot.com/?i=37360 my rings. :P |
| 01:14.15 | Legorol | yes i always play on Windows |
| 01:14.24 | Legorol | and this was pre-5174, i beleive it was 5162 |
| 01:14.39 | AnduinLothar | k, cause the assertion I got seemed to be mac only for some odd reason |
| 01:14.55 | Iriel | Is the mac client build assertion-enabled? |
| 01:15.09 | Iriel | I swear that the current windows test build does NOT include the assertion |
| 01:15.14 | AnduinLothar | is the pc version, not? |
| 01:15.15 | Iriel | I looked 8-) |
| 01:15.21 | Legorol | i don't think the pc version is |
| 01:15.27 | AnduinLothar | ah |
| 01:15.34 | AnduinLothar | that would explain that |
| 01:15.35 | Iriel | Correct, as of Sunday at any rate, the PC build is a release build |
| 01:15.51 | AnduinLothar | it doesn't crash, but then assertions haven't crashed macs since 1.4 |
| 01:16.06 | Legorol | so what happens? game hangs? quits? |
| 01:16.43 | AnduinLothar | the report window/app pops up with the assertion and it's blocked for the remaineder of the client session |
| 01:16.51 | Qzot | Headin' home. ttyl |
| 01:16.59 | AnduinLothar | ;subdued' |
| 01:18.50 | Crispix | The heck? Is anyone getting a restricted forum on the official forums? |
| 01:19.28 | Cairenn | check, you'll see you are logged in as "anon" |
| 01:19.29 | AnduinLothar | just tried it on public test client, same assertion |
| 01:19.37 | AnduinLothar | Assertion: lua_taintexpected || !(lua_tainted != 0) |
| 01:19.37 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Windows or mac? |
| 01:19.40 | AnduinLothar | mac |
| 01:19.46 | AnduinLothar | i dont have a pc here |
| 01:19.54 | Iriel | $ strings - WoW.exe | grep -i lua_ |
| 01:19.56 | Iriel | value for `lua_getinfo' is not a function |
| 01:20.07 | Iriel | That's the PC executable |
| 01:20.20 | Iriel | (A slightly old one, but the newest one had the same lack of 'lua_taintexpected' |
| 01:21.28 | Legorol | so they do call it "tainted" |
| 01:21.37 | Legorol | i thought that's just something that people on here came up with in discussions |
| 01:21.45 | Legorol | that's pretty funny |
| 01:22.19 | Kirov | if we made it up it would of been called "Temed" |
| 01:22.52 | AnduinLothar | greping my wow app doesn't seem to work.. |
| 01:23.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge {RA}BC-Werk (n=BC@216.31.182.146) |
| 01:23.07 | Iriel | you need to strings it first to get rid of the junk and make it grep friendly |
| 01:23.15 | cladhaire | <3 strings =) |
| 01:23.21 | Kolth | String cheese? |
| 01:24.18 | Cairenn | later Iriel |
| 01:24.19 | Kolth | cyas Ir |
| 01:24.52 | AnduinLothar | $ strings - 'World of Warcraft' | grep -i lua_ |
| 01:24.53 | AnduinLothar | lua_taintexpected || !(lua_tainted != 0) |
| 01:24.53 | AnduinLothar | !lua_registered |
| 01:24.53 | AnduinLothar | value for `lua_getinfo' is not a function |
| 01:24.54 | AnduinLothar | lua_taintexpected || !(lua_tainted != 0) |
| 01:24.54 | AnduinLothar | !lua_registered |
| 01:24.55 | AnduinLothar | value for `lua_getinfo' is not a function |
| 01:25.50 | AnduinLothar | they're definitely in the mac client :) |
| 01:25.52 | Iriel | So yeah, mac only 8-) |
| 01:25.54 | Iriel | have fun! |
| 01:26.50 | AnduinLothar | Looks like the regular 1.9 client is assertion enabled too, but i coulda guessed that |
| 01:29.04 | AnduinLothar | and there you have it, strait from a dev: "The reason you don't see it on Windows is because the Windows client is shipping with assertions removed." |
| 01:29.40 | AnduinLothar | nice to be told these things after spending hours figuring it out |
| 01:29.45 | AnduinLothar | ... |
| 01:29.52 | Legorol | what's the reason for having it different on Windows and Mac? |
| 01:30.07 | Legorol | i'd prefer they left assertions in :D |
| 01:30.38 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, do you have a 100% reproducible way to get the assertion? |
| 01:30.45 | Legorol | i can try it here and see if it crashes |
| 01:30.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 01:31.01 | AnduinLothar | wasn't given a reason, and if i ask int he bug reports my boss will have a conition, your better off asking sam directly |
| 01:31.10 | AnduinLothar | coniption* |
| 01:31.33 | AnduinLothar | ya, i do, but it doesn't do anything on windows, it's jsut ignored |
| 01:33.24 | AnduinLothar | it's probably just because assertions are non fatal and they don't want to be spammed by 5 million people |
| 01:33.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@151.56.232.176) |
| 01:36.05 | JoshBorke | where are the class colors located for like priest and druid and paladin and all that? |
| 01:36.23 | Kirov | GlobalStrings? |
| 01:36.56 | AnduinLothar | or the raid addon |
| 01:38.06 | Kirov | it's in Fonts.xml |
| 01:38.11 | Kirov | RAID_CLASS_COLORS |
| 01:38.40 | JoshBorke | thanks :-) |
| 01:38.43 | JoshBorke | i saw the RAID_CLASS_ |
| 01:38.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 01:38.49 | JoshBorke | in the raidUI |
| 01:42.06 | JoshBorke | thanks :-) |
| 01:43.47 | JoshBorke | this'll work right? _,class = UnitClass('target') |
| 01:43.58 | Kirov | yes |
| 01:44.06 | JoshBorke | koolio :D |
| 01:44.08 | JoshBorke | thanks :D |
| 02:02.35 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 02:06.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 02:06.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:38.24 | Kirkburn | toodles |
| 02:39.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:40.41 | Legorol | wb Iriel |
| 02:50.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 02:50.58 | ckknight | is there any way to attach scripts like OnEnter to textures? |
| 02:52.53 | Iriel | No |
| 02:52.58 | Iriel | textures dont 'exist' per-se |
| 02:53.03 | ckknight | alright |
| 02:53.04 | Iriel | they're just a draw region on the screen |
| 02:53.09 | Iriel | they're not frames, they have no notion of 'entry' |
| 02:53.22 | ckknight | how does setAllPoints work in XML, do you set it to "true" or to a frame's name? |
| 02:53.24 | Iriel | Just make a Frame |
| 02:53.27 | Iriel | true |
| 02:53.30 | ckknight | okay |
| 02:58.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=esnickel@ip-66-80-2-118.dsl.sca.megapath.net) |
| 02:59.18 | Qzot | Buenas tardes. |
| 02:59.21 | Iriel | Ok, this just doesn't make sense. |
| 02:59.30 | Iriel | Here is my addon's Saved variables file |
| 02:59.35 | Cairenn | easy for you to say |
| 02:59.40 | Iriel | SymbolTest_Output = nil --[[ skipped recursive table ]] |
| 02:59.51 | Iriel | How is that possible? |
| 03:00.09 | JoshBorke | but i thought that you were the expert... |
| 03:00.32 | Qzot | ~8ball Are we doomed, Purl? |
| 03:00.35 | purl | Are you smoking crack? |
| 03:00.43 | MentalPower | ROLF |
| 03:01.02 | JoshBorke | ok, i want to do versioning properly |
| 03:01.11 | Qzot | ~8ball What that a rhetorical question, Purl, or infomation you need to determine the answer? |
| 03:01.13 | purl | Yes. |
| 03:01.13 | JoshBorke | in this addon i'm starting on |
| 03:01.31 | JoshBorke | what are some generally held principles in versioning an addon? |
| 03:01.42 | MentalPower | Qzot: yes/no questions only :) |
| 03:02.04 | MentalPower | JoshBorke: Auctioneer uses versioning based on revision number |
| 03:02.20 | Iriel | JoshBorke : Most people seem to go with major version for big changes, minor versioning for small (generally backward compatible) ones |
| 03:02.23 | MentalPower | other use the current WoW version as a basis |
| 03:02.37 | Iriel | Including the wow version or TOC version as an extra value is useful |
| 03:02.39 | MentalPower | what Iriel said :) |
| 03:02.49 | Iriel | I personally like <major>.<minor>-<TOC> |
| 03:02.56 | JoshBorke | hm, alright |
| 03:02.58 | Iriel | so 0.9-11000 |
| 03:03.08 | JoshBorke | yea, mmk |
| 03:03.09 | Meritt | no job offers from blizz yes, iriel? |
| 03:03.18 | JoshBorke | but within minor revision it's mostly anything goes? |
| 03:03.35 | Iriel | I doubt they could tempt me away from the bay area 8-) |
| 03:03.48 | Meritt | heh |
| 03:03.57 | Iriel | JoshBorke : Well, minor revisions are tihngs like fixing bugs, correcting typos in help instructions, etc |
| 03:04.05 | Iriel | JoshBorke : major versions are things like new features, etc |
| 03:04.31 | Meritt | i am/was Vika, btw, if you were wondering. |
| 03:04.37 | ckknight | though it may be different for versions less than 1.0 |
| 03:04.56 | Iriel | As ckknight notes, below 1.0 it tends to just be 0.<version> |
| 03:05.04 | Iriel | Meritt : Ahhh.. I had indeed wondered, welcome back 8-) |
| 03:05.16 | JoshBorke | yea, while i'm still doing the beta portion where i'll be doing a lot of development |
| 03:05.36 | Meritt | Iriel: Thanks.. Not getting back into WoW though (at least trying not to, got a few other things keeping me busy :) |
| 03:05.40 | ckknight | but once I hit 1.0, no new features until 1.1, it's just bugfixing till then |
| 03:06.36 | JoshBorke | mmk, thaks guys :-) |
| 03:07.01 | Iriel | JoshBorke : Basically use whatever scheme you like, just remember 0.10 follows 0.9, and version numbers always go UP |
| 03:07.19 | Iriel | JoshBorke : You could use 3 or 4 level version numbesr if it makes more sense to you |
| 03:07.32 | ckknight | Major.Minor.Revision.Trivial |
| 03:07.57 | Iriel | SomeAddon-1.3.7.5.wombat-11000.zip ? |
| 03:08.17 | ckknight | typically you'd only have a trivial of 0, 1, or 2 :-P |
| 03:08.29 | ckknight | it'd be for super-small changes |
| 03:08.37 | ckknight | and typically only used pre-1.0 |
| 03:08.45 | JoshBorke | hm, cool |
| 03:09.12 | ckknight | also, some people use Trivial as the build number |
| 03:09.32 | ckknight | so you'll see versions like 0.10.0.5270 |
| 03:10.17 | ckknight | usually, you won't see trivial go over 9999, or the other numbers go over 99, but that's not always the case |
| 03:10.55 | JoshBorke | i think i'll stick with a <major>.<minor>-<wow> setup :-) |
| 03:11.12 | ckknight | sounds good |
| 03:11.13 | JoshBorke | but i'll actually stick with it :D |
| 03:15.08 | Iriel | Aha! |
| 03:16.05 | ckknight | I wish I could set my toc version to 11000 now without it being "out of date" |
| 03:16.09 | Iriel | You can't have a key called __print_variable_guard in a table |
| 03:16.21 | ckknight | hrm |
| 03:16.22 | ckknight | why not? |
| 03:17.12 | Iriel | I dont know why not, just that if you have that key, you get the output I showed above |
| 03:18.02 | MentalPower | SymbolTest_Output = nil --[[ skipped recursive table ]] <-- That? |
| 03:18.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-190-48.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:22.10 | Iriel | yes |
| 03:23.15 | Miravlix | Anyone noticed some major logic changes in lua with one of the latest patches to WoW? Where true ~= 1 |
| 03:23.35 | ckknight | TRUE == 1 |
| 03:23.40 | ckknight | true ~= TRUE |
| 03:24.04 | Miravlix | TRUE == nil |
| 03:24.10 | ckknight | ? |
| 03:24.18 | ckknight | it does? |
| 03:24.23 | ckknight | in 1.10? |
| 03:24.32 | Miravlix | There is no TRUE in wow lua 1.9.x |
| 03:24.37 | ckknight | yes there is |
| 03:24.40 | ckknight | I've been using it |
| 03:24.51 | Miravlix | IT's some addon of yours that set it |
| 03:24.56 | Miravlix | it's nil on my system |
| 03:25.09 | ckknight | no addon of mine's sets it |
| 03:25.10 | JoshBorke | did you unload all your addons? |
| 03:25.13 | Kirov | ace adds TRUE == 1 |
| 03:25.18 | ckknight | ah |
| 03:25.22 | ckknight | that makes sense |
| 03:25.23 | Miravlix | There you have it. :p |
| 03:25.25 | JoshBorke | ah |
| 03:26.50 | Miravlix | My problem is |
| 03:26.50 | Miravlix | callback = function(state) |
| 03:26.50 | Miravlix | CombatStats_EndOfFight_OnOff(state.checked); |
| 03:26.50 | Miravlix | end; |
| 03:27.01 | Kirov | because true and false are lua constants, but in memory they exist as the strings "true" and "false", ace added TRUE == 1 so you could use TRUE and FALSE (which doesn't exist) and save a little extra memory |
| 03:27.05 | Miravlix | where state.checked = true or false worked up until 1.9.x |
| 03:27.46 | Iriel | ?? |
| 03:27.53 | Iriel | true and false are lua KEYWORDS |
| 03:27.58 | Iriel | they evaluate into literal boolean values |
| 03:28.06 | Miravlix | Then during one of the patches CombatStats suddently broke. |
| 03:28.20 | Kirov | Iriel - mental copy / paste from the Ace forums. =) |
| 03:28.25 | Miravlix | For no apparent reason. |
| 03:29.14 | Iriel | Hm, sounds like a bug in CombatStats or somesuch? |
| 03:29.27 | Miravlix | ... |
| 03:29.28 | Iriel | Or at least a failure to follow standard lua idioms |
| 03:29.30 | Miravlix | Ofcourse |
| 03:29.37 | Miravlix | But the only change was a new WoW patch |
| 03:29.47 | Miravlix | No code changes was done and suddently it's broken |
| 03:30.04 | Iriel | I'm not sure I can believe that, if it's a RECENT change |
| 03:30.06 | Gryphen | was working for me recently |
| 03:30.10 | Iriel | there was the moment that compat.lua went away |
| 03:30.32 | Iriel | TRUE=1 is just dumb, IMHO |
| 03:30.38 | Iriel | TRUE=true would make a lot more sense |
| 03:30.54 | Miravlix | Never mind Ace being weird. :p |
| 03:30.54 | Iriel | though that too is a bit strange |
| 03:30.57 | ckknight | WoW typically uses 1 or nil to signify booleans |
| 03:31.15 | Miravlix | No one else noticed true was equal to 1 for the longest time and suddently it changed? |
| 03:31.24 | Iriel | true has NEVER been equal to 1 |
| 03:31.25 | Iriel | ever |
| 03:31.29 | ckknight | Iriel is right |
| 03:31.32 | Iriel | in the existance of wow, since it first began |
| 03:31.35 | Iriel | it has never been equal to 1 |
| 03:31.44 | Miravlix | Then how can if Variable == 1 then break? |
| 03:31.48 | Iriel | true is, and only is, equal to true |
| 03:31.58 | Miravlix | When Variable == true |
| 03:31.59 | Kirov | Iriel - maybe I'm remembering it wrong from my newbness, but I know there's a thing in Ace where they say to use TRUE and FALSE because FALSE is nil |
| 03:32.07 | Miravlix | It worked, code didn't change, now it doesn't work |
| 03:32.17 | Iriel | Kirov: I can see it as a convention to spare saved variables space |
| 03:32.32 | Iriel | And yes, wow's flag values are generally 1 and nil |
| 03:32.32 | Gryphen | CombatStats was working fine for me recently |
| 03:32.41 | Iriel | but they both evaluate to true and false in a boolean context |
| 03:32.42 | Gryphen | I disabled it because it was working |
| 03:33.03 | Iriel | I suspect Miravlix's problem lies elsewhere, an unexpected dependency on something that changed |
| 03:33.04 | Miravlix | Gryphon: Go talk to Andu if you don't beleive that it is broken because I say so |
| 03:34.20 | Iriel | I will note that 0 is inconsistently handled, some of the C++ functions handle it as false, lua handles it as true |
| 03:34.20 | Miravlix | I'm working on this fix because Andu put it on the to do list, I have fixed it, but I sure find it totally weird |
| 03:34.31 | Iriel | I wonder if someone hooked a blizzard function and messed that up |
| 03:34.57 | Iriel | Generally if you EVER see if (Something == true) in wow code you're in for trouble |
| 03:35.06 | Iriel | Unless the piece of code in question really cares |
| 03:36.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=hercules@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:36.30 | Kirov | evenin' slouken |
| 03:36.35 | JoshBorke | howdy slouken |
| 03:36.50 | Iriel | Hey slouken, I found your __print_variable_guard by accident 8-) |
| 03:37.07 | cladhaire | evening slouken =) |
| 03:37.09 | slouken | Howdy. |
| 03:37.14 | slouken | How the heck did you do that? |
| 03:37.35 | Iriel | I always check all the 'potential global symbols' when a new build comes out |
| 03:37.45 | Iriel | and lo, that appeared in the binary, so I checked it |
| 03:37.54 | Iriel | and suddenly my data stopped coming out of saved variables 8-( |
| 03:38.12 | Iriel | Working out WHICH of the 19,000 symbols was the offending one was 'fun' |
| 03:38.13 | slouken | ~lart Iriel |
| 03:38.30 | slouken | ~lart Iriel |
| 03:38.35 | slouken | Hmm |
| 03:38.54 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 03:39.05 | slouken | I was hoping for something with a fish. :) |
| 03:39.06 | Iriel | Anyway, I just coded around it for now, so no harm done 8-) |
| 03:40.06 | JoshBorke | /cry |
| 03:40.09 | slouken | using a hidden variable was less work and less memory than maintaining a separate table... |
| 03:40.50 | slouken | But subject to Iriel's Tem-along |
| 03:41.02 | JoshBorke | i <3 the fact that if wow crashes you bypass the que |
| 03:41.10 | Iriel | well, all you need to do is the C++ equivalent of |
| 03:41.13 | tem | huh? |
| 03:41.16 | Iriel | local print_guard = {}; |
| 03:41.22 | Iriel | then table[print_guard] = true |
| 03:41.30 | Meritt | JoshBorke: It just lets you without waiting for the queue? |
| 03:41.32 | Iriel | if (subtable[print_gard]) then bleugh(); end |
| 03:41.49 | JoshBorke | ( Meritt ): yes |
| 03:41.52 | Iriel | still as pretty, but it's iriel/tem proof 8-) |
| 03:42.03 | tem | psh |
| 03:42.05 | Iriel | Well, PROBABLY tem proof |
| 03:42.07 | tem | nothing is Tem proof |
| 03:42.13 | Meritt | JoshBorke: Heh, intiguing. Any guaranteed ways to crash the game? :P |
| 03:42.21 | Iriel | Until we add freakish metatables during SV output |
| 03:42.32 | Iriel | Actually, I wonder... |
| 03:42.34 | Kirov | hmm |
| 03:42.36 | slouken | Ah, interesting point. I forgot you can use anonymous tables as keys |
| 03:42.51 | Iriel | Just remember to use rawset/rawget to make it metatable proof 8-) |
| 03:42.52 | tem | hmm |
| 03:42.54 | ckknight | hehe, yep |
| 03:42.57 | Kirov | Wouldn't holding down the power button work just as well as crashing? |
| 03:43.06 | Iriel | Otherwise you'll suffer the iriel/tem curse again, i'm sure |
| 03:43.13 | tem | The serialization process /probably/ uses rawget |
| 03:43.14 | slouken | Iriel, can you send me a reminder? I have to attend baby bedtime |
| 03:43.22 | Iriel | slouken : Sure |
| 03:43.24 | slouken | I don't think it does, come to think of it |
| 03:43.26 | JoshBorke | ( Meritt ): i found one that's giving me problems :-P |
| 03:43.28 | tem | er, I guess it would be the C equiv |
| 03:43.29 | slouken | Need to check |
| 03:45.12 | slouken | Gotta run... (idling) |
| 03:45.14 | JoshBorke | maybe i've just crashed the UI portion? I'm still getting sounds bac |
| 03:47.00 | Legorol | Iriel: what on Earth is __print_variable_guard |
| 03:48.04 | Iriel | It's the temporary table entry that's used to prevent recursive table output |
| 03:48.19 | Iriel | the SV serializer sets it on each table it's in the process of writing |
| 03:48.19 | Legorol | ah |
| 03:48.33 | Iriel | Sadly I set it on my own table |
| 03:48.41 | Legorol | ehm.. interesting |
| 03:48.47 | Legorol | but why are you outputting your input table? |
| 03:48.57 | Legorol | wouldn't it be sufficient to output globals you have *actually* found? |
| 03:49.08 | Iriel | I output all of them, and their types |
| 03:49.15 | JoshBorke | ( Iriel ): i've made progress on the bug I have. it seems to be related to the second SetPoint |
| 03:49.15 | Legorol | including if they are nil? |
| 03:49.16 | Iriel | so I can just save the output and know both what I scanned and what's there |
| 03:49.46 | Legorol | so why wasn't this a problem before? |
| 03:49.53 | Legorol | recursive table guard is new? |
| 03:49.53 | Iriel | JoshBorke : I'm still surprised it crashes, the client does cycle detection |
| 03:49.58 | Iriel | Legorol : because that's new for 1.10, yeah |
| 03:50.09 | Iriel | Legorol : Previously it was just a client crash at logout |
| 03:50.15 | Iriel | Legorol : Which was more fun, but not as useful |
| 03:51.04 | Legorol | If slouken is back, can you ask him this: |
| 03:51.12 | Legorol | he said that he'll just probably nuke seterrorhandler |
| 03:51.21 | Iriel | He's doing baby bedtime |
| 03:51.22 | Legorol | since it was just about to get added in 1.10, that's a bit sad |
| 03:51.32 | Legorol | yeah i know, i might be gone by the time he is back :D |
| 03:51.46 | Iriel | Sad, yes, but on the bright side, nobody's addon should depend on it yet |
| 03:51.50 | Legorol | well i might just email him about this, but what i'm wondering is |
| 03:52.02 | Legorol | is it still the case that _ERRORMESSAGE gets pushed on the Lua stack? |
| 03:52.08 | Legorol | and this means we can't hook it either? |
| 03:52.39 | cladhaire | Anyone have a good example of a solid way to save the position of a frame, to restore it when we bring the UI back up? I'm concerned with precision issues-- and I'm seeing some skew =( |
| 03:52.41 | Iriel | It would seem that an easier approach would be to keep seterrorhandler, but push a signed proxy function onto the stack |
| 03:52.54 | Legorol | i vaguely remember there being some reason for adding seterrorhandler in the first place |
| 03:52.57 | Iriel | cladhaire : frame:SetUserPlaced(true) |
| 03:53.08 | Legorol | something about even if you hook _ERRORMESSAGE, the original gets pushed to the stack or some such |
| 03:53.11 | Legorol | i don't remember the details |
| 03:53.23 | cladhaire | Iriel: The issue with that, is if the mod is disabled for one login, the positions are lost entirely. |
| 03:53.42 | cladhaire | Iriel: In particular after a patch-- when the UI default disables all addons.. on logging out after that initial login.. and positions are lost. |
| 03:53.52 | Iriel | cladhaire : Ah, that does indeed suck. |
| 03:54.04 | Kirov | cladhaire - I know CTRA does this |
| 03:54.08 | Iriel | cladhaire : You can use GetTop and GetLeft and simulate it, can't you? |
| 03:54.17 | Iriel | cladhaire : i.e. in a saved variable |
| 03:54.34 | cladhaire | *nod* that's what I'm doing |
| 03:54.41 | cladhaire | I'm just not sure what issue I'm running into. |
| 03:55.00 | Iriel | Is it a SIZE or a POSITION issue you're running into? (Or neither) ? |
| 03:55.48 | cladhaire | position. |
| 03:56.02 | Iriel | Is it related to scale compensation (or lack thereof) ? |
| 03:56.05 | cladhaire | the frames are moving to the left on reload |
| 03:56.08 | Iriel | specifically UIParent:GetScale |
| 03:56.10 | cladhaire | doesn't appear to be so |
| 03:56.12 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/613725 |
| 03:56.24 | Iriel | sorry, UIParent:GetEffectiveScale() |
| 03:56.45 | cladhaire | Its possible that i'm not adjusting for it. |
| 03:56.52 | Kirov | Anyone know what causes the continent load screen map to get stuck on the screen for an extended period? |
| 03:57.43 | cladhaire | I'm doing something stupid-- I'm just not sure where. |
| 03:57.54 | Kirov | do you still have :SetUserPlaced(true) ? |
| 03:58.31 | cladhaire | Nope |
| 03:58.34 | cladhaire | and its not in the layout-cache. |
| 03:58.38 | Legorol | Ok i'm confused now |
| 03:58.49 | Legorol | if I replace _ERRORMESSAGE with my own function, it has no effect |
| 03:58.55 | Legorol | the original one seems to be getting called still |
| 03:59.03 | Legorol | yet ImprovedErrorFrame manages to do that same thing somehow |
| 03:59.17 | Iriel | Legorol : That was the problem, I think, doesn't ImprovedErrorFrame hook message or somesuch? |
| 03:59.58 | Legorol | it does replace both message and _ERRORMESSAGE |
| 03:59.59 | Legorol | and it works |
| 04:00.04 | Legorol | yet when i do the same thing, it doesn't |
| 04:00.09 | Legorol | i have to figure out what i'm doing differently |
| 04:00.37 | Iriel | Legorol : Do you have IEF installed while you're testing? |
| 04:00.47 | MentalPower | I think it also hooks the :Show() function of the error frame |
| 04:01.09 | MentalPower | or something on the error frame itself |
| 04:01.14 | Legorol | MP, that might explain it |
| 04:01.28 | Legorol | Iriel: i do have IEF, and i am testing various things |
| 04:01.30 | Kirov | IEF hooks and unhooks _ERRORMESSAGE and message in a way that'll kill any other mods |
| 04:01.45 | Legorol | what do you mean by "kill"? |
| 04:02.07 | Iriel | cladhaire : You dont have a frame:ClearAllPoints() |
| 04:02.09 | Legorol | i can very well imagine it causing blocks if it does manage to replace _ERRORMESSAGE |
| 04:02.32 | Kirov | It saves _ERRORMESSAGE and message at load before any other mods get a chance to, then use that to replace. |
| 04:03.09 | Iriel | Is it a Cosmos addon? Operating as if it's the only addon in the universe and shoving anyone else's out of the way? 8-) |
| 04:03.18 | Kirov | On VariablesLoaded it does the actual hook |
| 04:03.52 | Kirov | hmm, I take that back, it does it on laod |
| 04:03.58 | Legorol | Iriel: it does a standard hook on message and _ERRORMESSAGE, on load |
| 04:04.07 | Legorol | nothing that'd interfere with others trying to do the same |
| 04:04.24 | Legorol | actually sorry that's not entirely correct |
| 04:04.28 | Legorol | it does replace them completely |
| 04:04.33 | Legorol | the mistery is not that |
| 04:04.42 | Legorol | the mistery is that it *does* manage to replace _ERRORMESSAGE |
| 04:04.45 | Legorol | whereas i can't |
| 04:04.57 | Legorol | simply typing _ERRORMESSAGE = function(msg) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(msg) end |
| 04:04.59 | Legorol | has no effect |
| 04:05.10 | Legorol | that's why seterrorhandler was necessary in the first place, if i remember correctly |
| 04:05.27 | Iriel | Legorol ; My memory tends to agree with you |
| 04:05.48 | Legorol | so something fishy must be going on |
| 04:05.59 | Legorol | because IEF *appears* to be able to replace _ERRORMESSAGE |
| 04:06.07 | Legorol | but on the other hand, if it did manage to, it would lock up all movement |
| 04:06.12 | Legorol | or should do, i think |
| 04:06.22 | Legorol | so something fishy is going on |
| 04:06.37 | Iriel | Are you sure that actually works, or does it replace _ERRORMESSAGE with NO effect, and is getting by via some other mechanism? |
| 04:06.47 | Legorol | that's what i'm starting to suspect |
| 04:10.31 | MentalPower | when/where/why did slouken say that seterrorhandler would be removed? |
| 04:12.19 | Legorol | ahhhh, MentalPower you are right |
| 04:12.36 | MentalPower | I am? |
| 04:12.41 | Legorol | it explicitly nukes the ScriptErrors.Show function |
| 04:12.48 | Legorol | that explains it |
| 04:12.56 | MentalPower | lol, nice |
| 04:13.08 | Legorol | it replaces ScriptErrors:Show() with message(ScriptErrors_Message:GetText()); |
| 04:13.19 | Legorol | and "message" is hookable |
| 04:13.35 | Legorol | i knew there's something fishy |
| 04:14.45 | Legorol | and yes that's one ugly hack.. |
| 04:20.58 | MentalPower | I've scoured slouken's recent posts on the WoW UI forum and I can't find anything on seterrorhandler other than its addition |
| 04:23.56 | Iriel | I suspect it was in response to an emailed problem |
| 04:24.06 | Iriel | (namely that using seterrorhandler completely disables any 'trusted' functions) |
| 04:28.07 | Legorol | MentalPower: yeah sorry i forgot to reply to that |
| 04:28.26 | Legorol | what Iriel said |
| 04:28.28 | MentalPower | :) |
| 04:34.23 | Iriel | ... and it looks like it's not going away after all |
| 04:34.24 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 04:34.49 | MentalPower | woot! |
| 04:35.19 | Legorol | blame Iriel! he came up with a clever solution instead :D |
| 04:37.29 | tem | cladhaire: I am seeing the same positioning issue |
| 04:37.36 | tem | cladhaire: did you find a solution yet? |
| 04:38.05 | Tem | the frames seem to be moving slightly down and to the left |
| 04:38.42 | Iriel | Is the frame scaled identically (and did you remember a ClearAllPoints?) |
| 04:40.02 | Tem | I didn't ClearAllPoints because I'm always dealing with the top left anchor |
| 04:40.10 | Tem | the frame isn't scaled at all |
| 04:40.18 | Tem | and UIParent isn't scaled either |
| 04:40.51 | Legorol | Iriel, if you have half a brain for me, would you mind explainining what you meant when you said that whenever a reference is *read* you get back a tainted one? |
| 04:41.23 | Legorol | e.g. if I do SomeRandomFunction(MoveForwardStart); |
| 04:41.35 | Legorol | i understand that if i do this from an AddOn, the execution path is tainted anyway |
| 04:41.45 | Iriel | When you pass MoveForwardStart, it's already tainted (if you're doing it from a tainted context) |
| 04:41.57 | Legorol | i understand that the context is tainted |
| 04:42.01 | Legorol | but is the reference tainted too? |
| 04:42.12 | Iriel | I believe so |
| 04:42.20 | Legorol | from what you said, the taintedness of values is stored in the actual struct describing the variable |
| 04:42.35 | Iriel | Describing the value (reference, or simple value) |
| 04:42.36 | Legorol | i don't know the C implementation, but seems to me that with a call like that, no new struct would be created |
| 04:42.36 | Iriel | yes |
| 04:42.47 | Legorol | and you can't taint the original struct |
| 04:42.58 | Tem | but you aren't |
| 04:42.58 | Iriel | Nono, you're a level too high in your abstraction |
| 04:43.26 | Iriel | When you reference MoveForwardStart lua copies the value from the global environment into one of your registers (and taints it, en route) |
| 04:43.28 | cladhaire | Iriel: Something isn't fully available at VARIABLES_LOADED that seems to be causing my issue. If I wait until PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD to reposition the frames,its fine. I assume its a scaling issue on UIParent that isnt set yet. |
| 04:43.46 | Iriel | cladhaire : probably, yes, UIScale doesn't seem to get set until then |
| 04:43.56 | Tem | cladhaire: my addon is LoadOnDemand |
| 04:44.06 | Legorol | Iriel: ok if there is copying involved, i understand how it will get tainted |
| 04:44.13 | Legorol | but it seems to be an inefficient implementation... |
| 04:44.20 | Tem | it's position issues happen LONG after PEW or VL |
| 04:44.22 | Legorol | i take your word for it that that's how it works |
| 04:45.07 | Legorol | if i'm just passing a global to a function, it seems like it should be sufficient to push the appropriate C pointer to the stack, on the C side of things, where the C pointer points to the original struct |
| 04:45.07 | cladhaire | Tem: Oh, I wans't looking at your position issues |
| 04:45.12 | cladhaire | Tem: but I've fixed StickyFrames |
| 04:45.21 | cladhaire | I think =) |
| 04:45.24 | Tem | I'm using the code you gave me |
| 04:45.25 | Legorol | I guess i should dissect Lua :D |
| 04:45.31 | Tem | bah, WSG tim |
| 04:45.32 | Tem | e |
| 04:45.53 | cladhaire | Tem: Rip the code from WD tonight |
| 04:46.01 | cladhaire | I rewrote the SaveFramePO and RestoreFramePOs |
| 04:46.33 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/613765 |
| 04:46.41 | cladhaire | I'm getting there at least =) |
| 04:46.42 | Tem|PVP | k |
| 04:46.47 | Tem|PVP | I'll take a look at it in 20 |
| 04:46.53 | Tem|PVP | probably less |
| 04:47.02 | Tem|PVP | looks like I'm facing a plow with a pick up |
| 04:47.18 | cladhaire | I use StickyFrames:AnchorFrame to re-anchor cause I'm lazy |
| 04:53.54 | Tem|PVP | laskjdf;alskjf;alskdf;lahsd f~ |
| 04:53.57 | Tem|PVP | this is so frustrating |
| 04:54.00 | Cairenn | un oh |
| 04:54.18 | cladhaire | Iriel: Two libraries using your framework are about to be released into the wild =) *gasp* |
| 04:55.01 | Tain | So at least we'll know exactly who to blame! |
| 04:55.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 04:55.43 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 04:56.33 | Tem|PVP | fighting a guild group in full t2 sets with a mishmash of idiots and worse wearing mostly t0 gear makes me very frustrated |
| 04:56.43 | cladhaire | THe only change I made was to AceHooks.. It embeds the method in the calling namespace, so they can self:Hook() just by original design that I was kinda stuck with-- so I added a stub:Embed() method that takes a namespace and a version-- grabs the instance and calls the :Embed method with the namespace. |
| 04:57.33 | Tem | wow it took them less than 10 minutes to rip us to shreds |
| 04:57.47 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/613771 and http://wow.pastebin.com/613773 |
| 04:58.24 | cladhaire | I'm gonna send you a copy via email in case you want to rip it to shreds.. Tem and I are the only ones using them, so we can wait if we need to =) |
| 05:00.00 | Tem | if I could just get the motivation to re-do my config frame, I would be ready to release this thing |
| 05:00.48 | Tem | Iriel, do you still have that frame cache thing around? |
| 05:01.00 | Kirov | Anyone else getting their server restarted? |
| 05:01.01 | Tem | it's WAY overkill for what I'm doing but I still want to use it |
| 05:01.16 | Tem | I wish Kirov |
| 05:01.27 | Tem | I'd get into AV right away instead of 4 hours from now |
| 05:01.58 | Kirov | Kalimdor crashed on our server... just Kalimdor |
| 05:02.10 | cladhaire | Bah, taking the dog out then heading to bed.. bbias. |
| 05:02.50 | Iriel | Tem: I think it's linked on iriel.org |
| 05:03.03 | Cairenn | night cladhaire |
| 05:03.04 | Tem | k, I'll have a look around |
| 05:03.08 | Tem | night cladhaire |
| 05:03.37 | Tem | yep, found it |
| 05:03.38 | Tem | thanks Iriel |
| 05:05.41 | cladhaire | night all, have fun on maintenance day.. i'll be at work-- trying to find forums to lurk on =) |
| 05:06.06 | Kirov | curious ... MovePad doesn't show up as a secure addon. |
| 05:06.30 | Kirov | I would of thought it's signing would of marked it as being such. |
| 05:06.58 | Tem | Iriel: am I reading this right? |
| 05:07.01 | Iriel | I would have done too, but never thought to look 88-) |
| 05:07.15 | Tem | Iriel: Did you use a recursive __index method? |
| 05:08.34 | Iriel | Tem: No, I have 2 metatables, one at each level |
| 05:08.40 | Tem | right |
| 05:08.43 | Iriel | The inner one creates a member table with the metatable from the outer one |
| 05:08.50 | Iriel | sorry, swap inner and outer there |
| 05:08.51 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 05:08.54 | Tem | I'm talking about topMeta |
| 05:09.13 | Tem | I wasn't aware that you could do that |
| 05:09.37 | Tem | you invoked __index from within itself by indexing the table |
| 05:09.59 | Iriel | You tend to find out that works ACCIDENTLY 8-) |
| 05:10.07 | Tem | haha |
| 05:10.08 | Iriel | At least, the first time I empirically discovered it was an accident |
| 05:10.38 | Tem | it's definately a useful construct |
| 05:11.00 | Iriel | Some of the secret sauces used a version of it |
| 05:11.13 | Miravlix | We where talking about No cooldown stuff earlier. |
| 05:11.58 | Miravlix | How do you duplicate : CastSpellByName("Nature's Swiftness");SpellStopCasting();CastSpellByName("Healing Touch") |
| 05:12.07 | Miravlix | By button pressing? |
| 05:12.16 | Iriel | You shouldn't have to |
| 05:12.26 | Iriel | You should click Natures Swiftness, then Healing Touch |
| 05:12.28 | Miravlix | Without the SpellStopCasting() you can't chain the two fast enough |
| 05:13.09 | Miravlix | The above macro is absolutely instant, doing NS button then HT button gives UI error messages |
| 05:13.51 | Miravlix | Removing the SpellStopCasting() gives an UI error |
| 05:15.28 | Miravlix | I'm changing my NS normal non macroed button to a CastSpellByName("Nature's Swifness");SpellStopCasting() |
| 05:15.44 | Miravlix | Because thats the only way to get insta with no cooldown truely insta |
| 05:16.13 | Legorol | Miravlix, what's wrong with putting that exact script you just pasted into a macro? |
| 05:16.16 | Legorol | it should work fine.. |
| 05:16.43 | Gryphen | he knows that |
| 05:16.50 | Gryphen | his point is you cant do that without it |
| 05:16.51 | Legorol | then i missed the point |
| 05:17.03 | Miravlix | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:17.04 | Iriel | The discussion was that SSC should NOT be necessary if you can hit 2 keys in quick succession |
| 05:17.15 | Miravlix | It's not possible for a non-macroer to play as well as me with macros |
| 05:17.39 | Miravlix | Well, anyone with macros. |
| 05:17.43 | Legorol | wouldn't hitting NS, then ESC, then HT duplicate it? |
| 05:17.43 | Tain | That's not really a good point though. |
| 05:17.47 | Legorol | if ou press them fast enough |
| 05:17.51 | Legorol | s/ou/you |
| 05:18.01 | Tain | Macros are there to make life eaiser, quicker, more automated. |
| 05:18.02 | Miravlix | Leg: ESC would kill your attacking |
| 05:18.11 | Miravlix | So no I don't consider it duplicating |
| 05:18.19 | Legorol | are you sure? have you tried? |
| 05:18.25 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: I can press Shift-F3 and 4 as quickly as you can press one key =) |
| 05:18.27 | Tain | So saying that someone who uses macros can do something "better" than someone without is... well obvious. |
| 05:18.28 | Miravlix | Depending on the situation you would loss your target |
| 05:18.40 | Legorol | fair enough |
| 05:18.41 | Miravlix | clad: Not without getting an UI error |
| 05:18.53 | Tain | It's a specific case clad that's probably a bug anyway. |
| 05:18.54 | clad|sleep | Not true at all |
| 05:18.57 | Legorol | what about putting NS, SSC and HT on three different actions |
| 05:18.57 | clad|sleep | *nod* |
| 05:18.58 | Miravlix | That the while point. |
| 05:18.59 | Legorol | then you press 1, 2, 3 |
| 05:19.03 | Legorol | wouldn't that duplicate it? |
| 05:19.19 | Miravlix | Trigers Fury, NS and other non-cooldown spells can not be chained by button pressing |
| 05:19.38 | Miravlix | No you get a UI error message about cooldown |
| 05:19.41 | Legorol | what if you put an SSC in-between? |
| 05:19.50 | Legorol | ok i have to try this. |
| 05:19.51 | Iriel | How disappointing 8-( |
| 05:19.55 | clad|sleep | I guess it depends on what you mean.. but I do it with NS and Inner Focus both on a nightly basis, so perhaps its a specific case. |
| 05:20.02 | Miravlix | Just as putting CastSpellByName("NS");CastSpellByName("HT") generates an UI error |
| 05:20.21 | Miravlix | Because there is a hidden delay after you do CastSpell |
| 05:20.30 | Gryphen | its called lag hehe |
| 05:20.30 | Legorol | to be honest, i beleive that using SSC after an instant-cast is an exploit of sorts |
| 05:20.35 | Legorol | which wasn't intended |
| 05:20.35 | Miravlix | That can be terminated with SpellStopCasting() |
| 05:20.41 | Gryphen | time to be sent from your computer and back again |
| 05:20.59 | Legorol | the hidden delay is because the client is waiting for response from server |
| 05:21.03 | clad|sleep | ok.. so what am I testing |
| 05:21.04 | Miravlix | Gryph: If thats true why doesn spell;spell work? |
| 05:21.10 | clad|sleep | you're saying I can't NS/HT with two button presses without a UI error? |
| 05:21.12 | Legorol | the client does the following in fact: |
| 05:21.14 | Miravlix | Why does it only work with SSC in between |
| 05:21.18 | Legorol | here is why: |
| 05:21.35 | Legorol | 1) client activates a spell, flags itself as "spell-in-progress", and sends off a message to the server |
| 05:21.47 | Legorol | 2) when the server responds, the client clears the "spell-in-progress" flag |
| 05:21.57 | Legorol | what SSC does is to clear teh "spell-in-progress" flag |
| 05:22.15 | Legorol | so that the client thinks that you are allowed to carry on casting |
| 05:22.33 | Tem | yay! |
| 05:22.38 | Tem | pug vs pug |
| 05:23.49 | Miravlix | And according to Blizzard no cooldown abilities does give you the insta chaining ability |
| 05:24.00 | Miravlix | But it doesn't work for non macroers. |
| 05:24.13 | Legorol | what do you mean by according to blizzard? |
| 05:24.20 | Legorol | is there a post about that? |
| 05:24.21 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: Perhaps the issue lies with NS in particular.. and the fact that the spell is changed from cast time to spellcast. |
| 05:24.31 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: Will you clarify once more for me.. what it means "It doesn't work for non macroers". |
| 05:24.31 | Tain | It does lie with NS in particular. |
| 05:24.39 | Tain | It doesn't occur with all spells at least. |
| 05:24.58 | Tain | So it's NS and possibly specific others that I have not heard anyone else specify. |
| 05:25.24 | Miravlix | Doing hit button NS and hit button HT requires a delay in between that allows a purge of NS |
| 05:25.58 | Miravlix | Doing macro NS, SSC, HT it utterly instant and impossible to purge |
| 05:26.04 | clad|sleep | I'm playing on my druid now. |
| 05:26.32 | Iriel | Purge shouldn't be an instant cast spell! |
| 05:26.39 | clad|sleep | I agree =) |
| 05:26.56 | Iriel | 0.5 seconds perhaps |
| 05:27.23 | Miravlix | It does require < 1.10 wow though for the insta purger and you hitting a button at the right time. |
| 05:27.47 | clad|sleep | Click-casting with NS/HT is sick TBH =) |
| 05:27.50 | Miravlix | Blizzard is making it near impossible to auto purge NS with 1.10 |
| 05:28.08 | Legorol | there is one thing that makes it easier: |
| 05:28.17 | Legorol | you can now spam cleansing spells without mana cost |
| 05:28.22 | Legorol | if there is nothing to clean, you won't |
| 05:28.29 | Legorol | so you can just stand there and mash your clean spell |
| 05:28.47 | Miravlix | Uuh that sounds scary actually |
| 05:28.58 | Legorol | it is an *improvement* to stuff like purge |
| 05:29.03 | Miravlix | One button does it all thing, that always try a purge |
| 05:29.07 | Legorol | you bind a smart-casting addon to a key, and mash away |
| 05:29.18 | Legorol | Miravlix: yep |
| 05:29.25 | Legorol | and you don't incur a mana penalty if there is nothing to purge |
| 05:29.37 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: I just did it with almost no delay, so I think while your point makes sense, its a non-issue. If someone can purge that off of me.. then all the best to them =) |
| 05:30.07 | clad|sleep | I was casting HT before the NS animation actually got anywhere. |
| 05:30.19 | Miravlix | Just change your NS to: /script CastSpellByName("Nature's Swiftness");SpellStopCasting() |
| 05:30.37 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: Meh.. I click-cast.. so I dont have the issue as it is.. adn Inner Focus is truly chainable. |
| 05:30.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:30.58 | clad|sleep | Ok.. i've been troublesome enough.. time to go fall asleep. Why is it I always stay up late on the weeks I'm on call-- self punishment? |
| 05:31.13 | Miravlix | Still can't do it as fast. :( |
| 05:31.13 | Tain | It's your love and devotion to the WoW community. |
| 05:31.19 | clad|sleep | ha! |
| 05:31.24 | Miravlix | It still gives me Spell Not ready |
| 05:31.27 | Iriel | aka self punishment? 8-) |
| 05:31.30 | Miravlix | I need them both together |
| 05:31.42 | Miravlix | So they get send as one command to the server? |
| 05:31.48 | clad|sleep | Miravlix: Its true.. but then again no one using the default UI can get a frame showing Target's Target. |
| 05:32.09 | clad|sleep | K, I'm not being helpful. One last heal and I'm off to bed. For real this time =) |
| 05:32.11 | clad|sleep | night all |
| 05:32.12 | Tain | I'm sure I just don't understand the issue if it's annoying me so much since it seems like you already have what you need working. |
| 05:32.47 | Legorol | Miravlix: no they don't get sent to the server as one |
| 05:32.55 | Legorol | when you do NS, it sends one message to the server |
| 05:33.05 | Legorol | when you do SSC, it frees up the client for next cast, and sends a second message to server |
| 05:33.12 | Legorol | when you do HT, it sends a third message to the server |
| 05:33.34 | Legorol | ordinarily you can't do HT before a response to the first message, but SSC allows you to do it |
| 05:33.44 | Legorol | when the second message arrives at the server, the server simply disregards it |
| 05:33.46 | Tain | Where the hell is the UI&Macros forum? |
| 05:33.56 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.07 | Iriel | it's reloading |
| 05:34.16 | Iriel | New realms tomorrow I guess |
| 05:34.21 | Iriel | or new realm forums |
| 05:34.30 | Tain | Feh. |
| 05:34.52 | Tain | I'm still annoyed that both WoW and DDO take down the servers on Tuesdays. |
| 05:34.57 | Legorol | 302ms, not enough.. |
| 05:34.59 | Legorol | need more latency |
| 05:35.26 | Iriel | At least wow dont take them down on saturday and sunday night too |
| 05:35.29 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 05:35.46 | ckknight | Mockumentaries are great |
| 05:35.48 | Legorol | Iriel, did you get my PM? |
| 05:35.52 | Iriel | Though I believe DDO may have made it through the weekend this time |
| 05:36.14 | Iriel | Legorol : I'd have to say 'no', unless it was hours ago? |
| 05:36.24 | Legorol | ouch... |
| 05:36.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|outificate (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 05:36.32 | Legorol | i'd been sending you loads, and i just noticed that they got blocked |
| 05:36.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust103.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 05:36.51 | Legorol | darn registration... |
| 05:37.32 | Legorol | latency 374ms, keep going.. |
| 05:37.45 | Legorol | anyone knows any good methods for hogging my upload bandwith? |
| 05:38.06 | Tain | I think so Iriel, I played most of th weekend, on and off. |
| 05:38.37 | Tain | I was both dismayed and relieved tonight when I had a sudden geek moment and tried to create a new character only to find that the name THACO was taken. |
| 05:38.46 | Iriel | I spent a lot of saturday evening dead, with no crashes, but was out sunday |
| 05:39.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 05:40.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:45.41 | Legorol | right, my latency reached 2320 ms |
| 05:45.44 | Legorol | time to experiment |
| 05:50.41 | Legorol | a macroer has clear advantage |
| 05:54.11 | Iriel | What makes this non-trivial is spellcast delay due to being hit |
| 05:54.35 | Iriel | though I guess a one-spell queue would solve MANY things |
| 05:55.57 | Legorol | the latency is why sometimes it's possible for you to cast a counterspell when the opponent is still clearly casting on your screen, |
| 05:56.03 | Legorol | yet the spell will land on you |
| 05:56.15 | Legorol | this is not the biggest problem though |
| 05:56.27 | Legorol | in this scenario, the person being hurt is the one with the low latency |
| 05:56.40 | Legorol | the problematic scenarios are those where a person with low latency is at an *advantage* |
| 05:56.54 | Legorol | sorry, replace low with high in the above two |
| 05:57.11 | Legorol | movement is one such things |
| 05:57.23 | Legorol | if your latency is high, you appear to be warping on others' screen |
| 05:57.29 | Legorol | making it harder for you to be targeted |
| 05:57.47 | krka | also it's annoying when Unknown entity starts attacking you |
| 05:57.49 | Legorol | i consider this a problem, especially because you can deliberately increase your latency |
| 05:57.54 | krka | and good morning btw |
| 05:57.59 | Legorol | g'morning krka |
| 05:58.29 | Legorol | i'd been meaning for a while now to see just how badly can i make myself warp around by increasing my latency on purpose |
| 05:59.19 | krka | couldn't you have a friend unplug / plug your network while you play? |
| 05:59.28 | krka | that would emulate lag |
| 05:59.30 | Legorol | i can increase my latency just fine |
| 05:59.36 | Legorol | i just never bothered with this experiment |
| 05:59.47 | Legorol | all i need to do is use some p2p app to hog my upload bandwith |
| 05:59.50 | Legorol | *bandwidth |
| 06:00.21 | ckknight | you'd also want a P2P app that doesn't hog memory |
| 06:00.37 | Legorol | why is memory an issue? |
| 06:01.05 | ckknight | so that it doesn't affect your WoW gameplay while still hogging bandwidth |
| 06:01.19 | Legorol | bittorrent seemed fine for the purpose just now, when i was testing NS+HT |
| 06:01.28 | krka | there should exist bandwidth throttlers too |
| 06:01.30 | Legorol | no FPS drop, but latency climbed to over 2000ms |
| 06:16.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.23.206) |
| 06:18.19 | Wobin_ | http://youtube.com/watch?v=W8u91m5IN_s&search=Chinese%20Gold%20Farmers%20Online%20Games |
| 06:18.20 | Wobin_ | Interesting |
| 06:18.45 | Meritt | goldfarmers. heh |
| 06:19.19 | Wobin_ | It's actually a documentary on them |
| 06:20.01 | Wobin_ | On an entirely different topic. How are the people in #lua? Helpful? Nonhelpful? Abrasive? |
| 06:23.18 | Meritt | Yeah, that's a tough topic. I'm adamantly against the idea of buying/selling virtual goods for real money... but for the gold farmers.. Well, it's a way of survival in the real world for them. So I'm absolutely okay with it in that perspective and it's great. |
| 06:26.11 | ckknight | interesting |
| 06:26.47 | ckknight | doesn't mean I like em any more than before |
| 06:28.17 | Meritt | Heh. It's a point of view thing. Honestly the people we should be disgusted with are the people who purchase their goods/services, not the people who provide it. That's just as jacked up as people who bash adult film people for making what they do. They are supplying something that people want. If you don't like it, then get mad at the people who utilize it... |
| 06:28.56 | Wobin_ | It's all about supply and demand |
| 06:29.05 | Wobin_ | if there wasn't a demand for it, there wouldn't be a supply. |
| 06:29.12 | Meritt | In fact, I think it'd be great if the game companies were to track illegal transactions such as these, and ban the people on the receiving end -- Not the people who create it. |
| 06:29.32 | ckknight | I'm pro-adult film |
| 06:30.27 | ckknight | the unemployment around here is too low, though |
| 06:30.47 | Meritt | As in everyone has a job? |
| 06:31.10 | ckknight | yea, which causes issues if you want to get girls to work for you |
| 06:31.23 | Meritt | Erm, huh? |
| 06:31.28 | Wobin_ | PS, has anyone come across the error 'invalid order function for sorting' before? |
| 06:31.35 | ckknight | the acting job is more appealing when unemployment is high |
| 06:32.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malicor (n=mail@e178155029.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:32.07 | krka | in what context Wobin_? |
| 06:32.13 | Meritt | Ohh. Are you saying there aren't enough young porn stars? :P |
| 06:32.30 | Wobin_ | With MrPlow, I've got a metatable defined with __lt to 'sort' the inventory of a player |
| 06:32.44 | Wobin_ | on occasion (and I can't duplicate the error) people are getting that error when running it |
| 06:32.45 | Iriel | Wobin_ : If that's a lua error, you might want to check that your ordering function treats 'equals' properly |
| 06:33.15 | Wobin_ | equals, eh? |
| 06:33.29 | malicor | question: i saw in an existing mod: in the xml: <OnReceiveDrag>PlaceAction(SideBarButton_GetID(this));</OnReceiveDrag> |
| 06:33.39 | malicor | and the function is defined like followed: |
| 06:33.47 | malicor | function SideBarButton_GetID(button) |
| 06:33.54 | malicor | return (button:GetID()) end; |
| 06:34.03 | malicor | so aint that EXACTLY the same as: |
| 06:34.24 | malicor | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:34.25 | malicor | ? |
| 06:34.43 | Iriel | Well, that'd be the first thing to try, then check that reversing the elements args when they're not equal negates the result. |
| 06:34.51 | Iriel | malicor : It is if 'this' is an action button |
| 06:35.27 | malicor | in the function the word 'button' is just a variable, right ? it could be baned fooSchmupps, too ? |
| 06:35.30 | Wobin_ | Iriel: I thought the sort function only actually used the lt function |
| 06:35.47 | malicor | baned=named |
| 06:35.55 | krka | i would assume so too... weird |
| 06:36.01 | krka | a proper sort wouldn't need equals |
| 06:36.01 | Cairenn | night all |
| 06:36.25 | krka | night |
| 06:36.38 | Iriel | It does, but it has to behave correctly |
| 06:36.38 | Kolth | night |
| 06:37.00 | malicor | iriel: was that an answer to me or to krka ? |
| 06:37.17 | Wobin_ | My issue at the moment, is that I can't replicate the error, so I'm not sure exactly what is causing it to fall over |
| 06:37.18 | Iriel | krka: i.e. __lt(X,X) has to be false |
| 06:37.35 | Iriel | krka: and if __lt(X,Y) then NOT __lt(Y,X) |
| 06:37.48 | Iriel | krka: Something that doesn't behave consistently COULD cause that error |
| 06:37.49 | krka | both i guess :P |
| 06:37.56 | krka | oh sorry |
| 06:38.01 | krka | no it was for wobin |
| 06:38.03 | Iriel | Wobin_: The other problem could be i fyou're passing something bad into table.sort, like, NOT a function |
| 06:38.09 | Iriel | malicor : It was to krka, sorry |
| 06:38.18 | Iriel | malicor : Your understanding of 'button' is indeed correct |
| 06:38.30 | Wobin_ | Well, I'm not passing anything into table.sort, but using a metatable to assign the function |
| 06:39.08 | krka | so lua doesn't trust the __lt and checks stuff |
| 06:39.10 | krka | how rude :P |
| 06:39.23 | Iriel | Well, it might trust __lt, I've not tried it that way |
| 06:39.23 | Wobin_ | Hm, I'll post the code. |
| 06:39.35 | Wobin_ | Maybe you'll see if I've left an unreturned branch or something |
| 06:40.05 | krka | yeah, post it |
| 06:40.12 | malicor | in my example, in the <OnReceiveDrag> will this be the object that has been dragged ? |
| 06:40.22 | Iriel | malicor : No, it's the recipient of the drop |
| 06:40.32 | Iriel | malicor : PlaceAction places the contents of the cursor onto the specified action slot |
| 06:41.27 | malicor | ah, good :) |
| 06:41.48 | malicor | to ask what exactl an 'action slot' is would be too much, i guess, but I'll lookup PlaceAction |
| 06:42.22 | krka | you have 120 action slots, that you place all your actions on |
| 06:42.39 | krka | placeaction takes the number of such an action slot (i am guessing) |
| 06:42.39 | Wobin_ | http://ace.pastebin.com/613880 |
| 06:43.46 | krka | does it fulfilll identity, reflexitivity and transitivity? |
| 06:43.53 | malicor | some of those 120 action slots are taken by the game itself, i guess ? |
| 06:44.06 | krka | is it possible to have a < b, b < c, c < a? |
| 06:44.09 | Iriel | Wobin_: So each of your 'inventory item' objects has that metatable? |
| 06:44.26 | Wobin_ | yep |
| 06:44.38 | Iriel | Wobin_ : Line 13 will be a problem |
| 06:45.06 | Wobin_ | howso? |
| 06:45.12 | Iriel | Wobin_ : You need to return true if (ItemB and not ItemA) |
| 06:45.28 | krka | does he? |
| 06:45.38 | krka | would that not imply equality? |
| 06:45.38 | Iriel | Something like that |
| 06:45.45 | Iriel | yes, but it's not proper equality |
| 06:45.53 | krka | why not? |
| 06:46.01 | Wobin_ | um. |
| 06:46.06 | Iriel | You end up with a >= X and b >= X yet a ~= b |
| 06:46.10 | Iriel | if X is the one with no mapping |
| 06:46.14 | krka | oops... never mind me |
| 06:46.15 | Iriel | and a and b are non-equal mapped objects |
| 06:46.15 | Wobin_ | I'm returning false if -either- of the items has no mapping? |
| 06:46.17 | krka | being stupid as always |
| 06:46.30 | Wobin_ | hm |
| 06:46.30 | Iriel | I broke one of my own addons by making this same mistake once |
| 06:46.40 | Wobin_ | ah I see |
| 06:46.43 | Iriel | You need rules if ONE of them has no mapping but the other does |
| 06:47.08 | krka | yeah, need to choose with no ranking is < any ranking or other way around |
| 06:47.13 | Iriel | 24 onwards are broken too |
| 06:47.33 | Iriel | if you can't do |
| 06:47.43 | Iriel | partly for that reason, and partly because you've got something like |
| 06:48.03 | Iriel | if (aranking < branking) then return true; else return aname < bname end |
| 06:48.06 | Iriel | instead of |
| 06:48.28 | Iriel | if (aranking < branking) then return true elseif (aranking > branking) then return false else return aname < bname; end |
| 06:49.03 | Iriel | I severely recommend assigning your nil 'ranking' values a numeric default |
| 06:49.04 | Iriel | say -1 |
| 06:49.19 | Wobin_ | with _index |
| 06:49.22 | Iriel | and skipping all of that nil checking, because you'll amost certainly mess it up 8-) |
| 06:49.29 | Iriel | You dont need to go that far |
| 06:49.33 | Iriel | you can just do |
| 06:49.37 | Iriel | sometable[value] or -1 |
| 06:49.49 | Wobin_ | rightio |
| 06:50.58 | Iriel | as for your code, it's probably shorter to do |
| 06:51.00 | krka | or just do: if (bValue == nil) return false; if (aValue == nil) return true; ... <insert regular checks> |
| 06:51.08 | Iriel | if (X ~= Y) then return X < Y; end |
| 06:51.24 | Iriel | than if (X < Y) then return true; elseif (X > Y) then return false; else ... end |
| 06:52.14 | krka | no wait... mine doesn't work |
| 06:52.32 | zespri | on which basais an addon author who are using a library under the schema defined by you Iriel should decide wether to request a specific version or reqest the lates version when calling GetInstance? |
| 06:53.42 | Iriel | zespri: Pretty much it's only significant if you LoadOnDemand in the middle of your code, and aren't sure if someone else will have instantiated the library again in the meantime |
| 06:53.52 | Iriel | zespri: or if you're paranoid, or are debugging 8-) |
| 06:54.35 | Iriel | zespri: generally if you load the library first, then immediately after call GetInstance and assign to a local, you dont need to specify the version |
| 06:55.32 | Iriel | zespri: Does that make sense? |
| 06:56.52 | zespri | I'm digesting |
| 06:59.59 | zespri | the thing is that if I have a library that i distribute with my addon and there was breaking changes in the library I'd probably want these two library versions co-exist... so I think i'd have the paricular version number request all the time rather then otherwise |
| 07:00.45 | Iriel | The idea is that GetInstance selects the most recently included one |
| 07:00.52 | Wobin_ | hrm |
| 07:00.53 | Wobin_ | if (apotions ~= nil and bpotions == nil) then |
| 07:00.53 | Wobin_ | return false |
| 07:00.53 | Wobin_ | elseif (apotions == nil and bpotions ~= nil) then |
| 07:00.53 | Wobin_ | return true |
| 07:00.53 | Wobin_ | end |
| 07:00.56 | Wobin_ | is fine, isn't it? |
| 07:01.13 | Miravlix | Confusing as hell |
| 07:01.26 | Wobin_ | Although it doesn't check if both are not nil |
| 07:01.31 | Wobin_ | or nil |
| 07:02.05 | Miravlix | And shouldn't it be if apotions and bpotions == nil then |
| 07:02.15 | Iriel | I liked if (bpotions == nil) return false else if (apotions == nil) return true; end |
| 07:02.20 | Miravlix | elseif apotions == nil and bpotions then |
| 07:02.22 | Iriel | which was krka's suggestion |
| 07:02.31 | Iriel | elseif not else if, tho |
| 07:02.38 | Iriel | pardon my typo 8-) |
| 07:02.41 | zespri | well, Iriel, I would like to guaranty to my end user that my addon won't break. By bundling it up with a certain library version I can more or less guaranty this. I have to rely on the library author that minor update will still work with my addon. But if this is major update, then it will likly to break my addon. right? |
| 07:03.17 | Iriel | zespri: If your addon has a different major version from the other addon, both addons get their own copy |
| 07:03.36 | Miravlix | Libraries should always be backwards compatible unless they where a total mess from the beginning |
| 07:04.24 | zespri | Iriel, I haven't noticed anything on your site that would talk about an addon version asw opposed to the library version. did I miss something? |
| 07:05.10 | Iriel | zespri: It's all about the library version, that's the idea of the 'major' version.. If someone branches the library, they change major version |
| 07:06.10 | Iriel | zespri: If you improve (backward-compatible) a version,t hen you keep the same major version, and increase the minor version |
| 07:06.15 | zespri | but it will get own copy only if I specificly request a certian version right? or always? |
| 07:06.32 | Iriel | My stub keeps the most recent minor version for EACH major version |
| 07:07.07 | Iriel | generally I suspect there'd only be one major version around |
| 07:07.44 | Iriel | Since it's an embeddable library, the default GetInstance behaviour is to give you the version that addon shipped with (or an improved, compatible, replacement) |
| 07:11.14 | zespri | oh right |
| 07:11.20 | zespri | that makes sense |
| 07:11.39 | zespri | on this case you almost never need to request particular version |
| 07:13.27 | Iriel | Yup, you ONLY need to specify a version if there's any chance that a differnt version of the library is loaded between when you loaded yours, and called GetInstance on it |
| 07:13.37 | Iriel | This may help a bit: http://wow.pastebin.com/613895 |
| 07:16.01 | zespri | http://www.iriel.org/wow/addondev/embedlibrary3.html "The replication stub is responsible for identifying..." I think this is a typo, should be 'registration stub' |
| 07:16.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:16.11 | Iriel | Ah,thanks |
| 07:18.08 | zespri | SimpleExampleLib.lua comment to LibDiscard is copied and pasted from LibActivate |
| 07:19.12 | zespri | might need correction |
| 07:20.02 | Iriel | Thanks, done. |
| 07:21.47 | zespri | all in all looks interesting, but I think that it still will scare good deal of people off |
| 07:22.15 | Iriel | The folks it scares off likely aren't the kind of ones who'd be writing solid embeddable libraries |
| 07:22.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 07:23.08 | Iriel | Hopefully a more 'friendly' "how to use this" document will emerge eventually, without all of the "why" detail |
| 07:23.41 | zespri | and object oriented design as well may be confusing. you have to understand a) what objecte oriented design is and b) how it is implemented in lua in order to understand how your example works |
| 07:26.27 | zespri | I know this is very trendy to use it, but I'm not sure if it's really justified for such a small thing. Does it really benefit from being object oriented apart from looking cool? Again, I'm not attacking I'm just wondering, I know I may be wrong here |
| 07:26.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Inokis (n=Inokis@63-229-223-4.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 07:27.51 | [MoonWolf] | well, namespace clutter alone is a goo reason in WoW |
| 07:27.56 | [MoonWolf] | good* |
| 07:28.16 | Inokis | namespace clutter as in? |
| 07:28.50 | [MoonWolf] | if you work on OO all you variables and functions are contained in your addon object. |
| 07:28.51 | Wobin_ | an argument for OOD |
| 07:29.04 | [MoonWolf] | if you dont they are scattered about in the global namespace |
| 07:29.18 | [MoonWolf] | what happens if some other addon happens to have the same variable name at some point ? |
| 07:29.26 | ckknight | I don't like globals :-P |
| 07:29.38 | Iriel | zespri: it's only really viable for a library that's quite large, or one which allocates a lot of helper resources (like frames) |
| 07:30.08 | Iriel | If your 'library' is 3 small functions you always use, then the weight of the stub outweighs the benefit of sharing |
| 07:30.29 | Iriel | If on the other hand it creates some frames, event handlers, and manages extensive data caching, then it's likely a candidate |
| 07:31.42 | Qzot | There's also an intermediate ground -- several functions you'd like available in different apps, but you don't want a chance of contamination. A load/copy/delete millistub might be best. |
| 07:31.44 | zespri | I'm talking about your 'stub' object in this case |
| 07:32.46 | Iriel | Well, the OO-ness is mostly for consistency of style. It doesn't HAVE to be OO, but it'd be the same amount of code, and probably harder to follow |
| 07:33.36 | Iriel | If I didn't do it as an object, i'd likely have done a single global function with overloaded behaviour |
| 07:33.55 | Iriel | and I think that would've been worse |
| 07:36.19 | zespri | that's because you know the concept. I think not all people do. But then again may be you are righte and those who you targeted do know this |
| 07:39.46 | Ktron | heh, you can use Google Talk to talk to people on AIM |
| 07:39.54 | Ktron | I wonder if you can send files... |
| 07:56.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:39.20 | Iriel | Sleep time for me! |
| 08:39.27 | Kolth | Night! |
| 09:10.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malicor (n=mail@yath01.zar.cronon.net) |
| 09:10.29 | malicor | morning |
| 09:11.21 | Kolth | heya |
| 09:12.13 | malicor | could you suggest me a cool apidoc/manual/tutorial-site maybe ? |
| 09:13.01 | Kalroth | download a bunch of simple addons and www.wowwiki.com :) |
| 09:13.08 | malicor | i know that one :) |
| 09:13.33 | Kolth | The best tutorial is modifying existing AddOns by quality developers. |
| 09:13.58 | Kalroth | so fictional addons only?! :) |
| 09:14.08 | malicor | now i'd have to know who is a quality developer *g* :) |
| 09:16.12 | Kolth | Do you have an idea for an AddOn? |
| 09:16.14 | krka|work | i disagree, it' |
| 09:16.21 | krka|work | s better to look at bad quality stuff |
| 09:16.22 | malicor | yes |
| 09:16.48 | malicor | i'm still trying to grasp the concept of actionSlot and everything regarding that topic |
| 09:17.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron| (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 09:21.04 | krka|work | you see the twelve slots of actions in the bottom left of the default ui? |
| 09:21.06 | krka|work | those are action slots |
| 09:21.29 | malicor | but how are those represented in xml ? |
| 09:21.41 | malicor | as ActionButton ? |
| 09:28.00 | krka|work | the actionbutton isn't the actual action slot |
| 09:28.05 | krka|work | each action button is mapped to an action slot |
| 09:28.21 | malicor | hmm |
| 09:29.34 | malicor | its mapped by assigning a number, i guess ? between 1 and 120 ? |
| 09:30.07 | malicor | but the ActionButton is the graphical display-item, and put into the xml file, correct ? |
| 09:30.12 | krka|work | yes |
| 09:30.32 | krka|work | it's the number that "is" the action slot really |
| 09:30.39 | malicor | i cant find ActionButton at http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API |
| 09:30.48 | malicor | just Button there |
| 09:32.31 | krka|work | that's because actionbutton is not a type, it's a virtual frame |
| 09:32.38 | krka|work | blizzard defines it |
| 09:33.18 | malicor | so i create a normal button and inherit ActionButton ? but in order to know how to use it, i'd need an api or something, dont i ? |
| 09:33.31 | krka|work | look at blizzards code |
| 09:33.36 | krka|work | you can use the extract-thingy |
| 09:34.15 | malicor | aye, i was given a link yesterday, but i didnt get that extract-thingy to work |
| 09:34.34 | krka|work | ask someone for the framexml directory zipped then |
| 09:34.59 | malicor | oh, i have a folder framexml in my wow/ folder, but it was there before already ? |
| 09:35.11 | malicor | wow/interface/ that is |
| 09:42.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:48.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 09:53.00 | krka|work | it is created by the extracter |
| 09:59.40 | malicor | can you give me the link where to get the extracter once more please |
| 10:04.42 | krka|work | i dont know where it is |
| 10:11.10 | malicor | so the actionButton information i get by browsing/grepping through that framexml folder/files ? |
| 10:11.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 10:11.51 | Maldivia | *grumble* |
| 10:12.06 | krka|work | not so hard once you get used to it |
| 10:12.23 | Maldivia | you were talking about the Custom User Interface Toolkit ? |
| 10:13.20 | krka|work | yes |
| 10:13.21 | [MoonWolf] | hey |
| 10:14.00 | Maldivia | in case you didn't find the link: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/other-downloads.html |
| 10:14.05 | Maldivia | if you did, just ignore the above :) |
| 10:14.08 | malicor | thanks :) |
| 10:14.35 | malicor | actually i was asking about ActionSlots / ActionButtons and where i find info about that |
| 10:15.29 | Maldivia | download the kit, extract the UI code, and look in the files - that's about the best info :) |
| 12:04.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 12:24.08 | JoshBorke | look inside FrameXML\ActionButtonTemplate.xml and ActionButton.lua |
| 12:34.53 | JoshBorke | what event is fired when a party member begins to cast? |
| 12:49.17 | Maldivia | other than the chat combat event, none |
| 12:49.24 | Maldivia | to my knowledge |
| 12:56.40 | malicor | thanks josh |
| 13:07.41 | Kalroth | lala |
| 13:13.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 13:13.13 | Josh_Borke | did i miss anything? |
| 13:16.35 | Wobin_ | [20:49:18] <Maldivia> other than the chat combat event, none |
| 13:16.36 | Wobin_ | [20:49:25] <Maldivia> to my knowledge |
| 13:16.36 | Wobin_ | [20:56:42] <malicor> thanks josh |
| 13:16.36 | Wobin_ | [21:07:43] <Kalroth> lala |
| 13:16.36 | Wobin_ | [21:13:03] * Josh_Borke has joined #wowi-lounge |
| 13:16.58 | Kalroth | oi, that's copyrighted, no copying of my song! |
| 13:17.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.248.251) |
| 13:18.43 | Josh_Borke | lol |
| 13:19.18 | Josh_Borke | ok, for a raid then, I need CHAT_MSG_SPELL_PARTY_BUFF on CHAT_MSG_SPELL_FRIENDLYPLAYER_BUFF? |
| 13:20.37 | Josh_Borke | oh yea, it's patch tuesday! |
| 13:21.08 | Kirkburn | Patch? |
| 13:21.24 | Kalroth | I doubt 1.10 will be up today :P |
| 13:21.29 | Kalroth | or? |
| 13:21.38 | Josh_Borke | well, when i say patch tuesday...i really mean maintenance tuesday... |
| 13:21.39 | Josh_Borke | :D |
| 13:21.49 | Josh_Borke | 1.10 will not be up until at least next tuesday |
| 13:21.49 | Kirkburn | That's what I thought :P |
| 13:22.03 | Josh_Borke | they can't continue the contest realms if they go live with the patch. that would just be silly :D |
| 13:22.22 | Kalroth | ./comfort Kirkburn |
| 13:22.37 | Josh_Borke | Kirkburn: were you the one who wanted to know about my HealWatch? |
| 13:22.55 | Kirkburn | Not especially, I don't think |
| 13:23.42 | Josh_Borke | hm, ok, must have been someone else then |
| 13:27.54 | Kirkburn | I probably discussed it, but I don't have a high level healer yet |
| 13:32.03 | malicor | tell me about healwatch :) i'm curious 'bout 'bout anything :) |
| 13:34.27 | Wobin_ | Oh, is that the one that tracks who is healing whom? And rank etc? |
| 13:34.36 | Josh_Borke | yea, except i dropepd the rank :D |
| 13:34.44 | malicor | is it a little like healmeter ? |
| 13:34.45 | Josh_Borke | rank requires message passing |
| 13:34.57 | Wobin_ | passing or parsing? |
| 13:35.00 | Josh_Borke | malicor: it attempts to keep track of the heals so that you know who is healing your current target in real time |
| 13:35.02 | Wobin_ | oh passing |
| 13:35.17 | malicor | why would i want to know who else is healing my target ? |
| 13:35.18 | Josh_Borke | Wobin_: i'm trying to avoid message passing like the plague :D |
| 13:35.24 | Wobin_ | yeah =) |
| 13:35.26 | malicor | is it for pvp ? |
| 13:35.29 | Josh_Borke | malicor: in a raid setting, it can help prevent over-healing |
| 13:35.34 | Wobin_ | It'd be cool if you can pull it off without passing =) |
| 13:35.39 | malicor | hmm |
| 13:35.52 | Wobin_ | A totally standalone addon |
| 13:36.18 | malicor | what about the approach to look if the target you want to heal has >x percent full health, and heal only if not ? |
| 13:36.40 | Josh_Borke | malicor: sure, but when 3 other people do that at the same time, you have 4 people healing the same person at the same time :D |
| 13:36.43 | malicor | that way you could spam heal, and if target is full, you wouldnt waste mana because it wouldnt be casted ? |
| 13:36.51 | krka|work | it's been done! |
| 13:36.58 | malicor | in ct-raid i think? |
| 13:36.59 | Josh_Borke | krka: show me! |
| 13:37.18 | Josh_Borke | malicor: that's what people currently do, and the ctra kills the heal if they have too much health |
| 13:37.31 | Josh_Borke | in 1.10 the SpellStopCasting() will require a handware event, nerfing auto-cancel |
| 13:37.34 | malicor | yes |
| 13:37.38 | Kirkburn | aye |
| 13:37.46 | Kirkburn | Narf |
| 13:37.48 | malicor | whats a handware event ? |
| 13:37.54 | Kirkburn | Button press |
| 13:38.07 | Josh_Borke | s/handware/hardware/ |
| 13:38.14 | malicor | well, couldnt one program around something like that ? |
| 13:38.15 | Kirkburn | Oh lol |
| 13:38.37 | Kirkburn | Don't think anyone's found a way yet |
| 13:38.42 | Josh_Borke | malicor: no, blizzard is specifically making that change, so they don't want us to just program around it :D |
| 13:39.23 | malicor | what good will SpellStopCasting() be if you have to press a button for it ? |
| 13:39.27 | Josh_Borke | once you start casting, there's no way to stop in 1.10 without doing some sort of hardware event, ie moving forward, jumping, running a macro that does SpellStopCasting() |
| 13:39.44 | Josh_Borke | because you can spam a button with SpellStopCasting on it |
| 13:40.13 | Kirkburn | So basically a lot of addons will start spamming your screen with "Stop casting now, fool!" |
| 13:40.18 | Wobin_ | mouseclick count? |
| 13:40.22 | Kirkburn | Yep |
| 13:40.23 | Josh_Borke | yes |
| 13:40.28 | malicor | well, without thinking too much about it, the easiest way to 'surround' this would be: |
| 13:40.30 | Wobin_ | I'd be happy with that |
| 13:40.44 | Josh_Borke | what people will probably do is just make the macro check for health and stop casting if you are casting |
| 13:40.48 | Josh_Borke | then you jsut have to hit the macro really fast |
| 13:40.50 | Wobin_ | I'm wondering if Autobuff gets caught out by the changes? |
| 13:40.52 | Kirkburn | Buy lots of pitchforks and storm the Blizz offices? |
| 13:41.05 | malicor | aye, you just press the heal-button twice for each heal you want to do |
| 13:41.18 | malicor | no, instead of pressing the heal you want to cast once, you press it twice |
| 13:41.22 | Josh_Borke | Wobin_: yes. the current idea for autobuff is to steal keybindings when you need to rebuff and then replace the keybindings |
| 13:41.30 | malicor | first thing will trigger it, second will check if its valid or not due to health < x % |
| 13:41.50 | Wobin_ | Josh_Borke: So it does get nerfed by the changes? |
| 13:41.58 | Josh_Borke | Wobin_: from what I've heard yes. |
| 13:42.09 | Wobin_ | Although Autobuff does use mouseclicks to trigger buffs |
| 13:42.22 | Kirkburn | Eh, I have some weirdly linked files on my computer |
| 13:42.35 | malicor | wont what i just said work around the nerf already ? |
| 13:42.44 | Josh_Borke | malicor: that doesn't stop people from healing the same target though |
| 13:42.52 | Kirkburn | I just copied My Favourites to another location, and renamed it. Now the *original* folder has changed name too |
| 13:43.01 | malicor | it stops people from overhealing their target if it has >x% health |
| 13:43.09 | Kirkburn | And in both cases they're shortcuts to different folders |
| 13:43.10 | Josh_Borke | malicor: it doesn't stop double-healing |
| 13:43.12 | Wobin_ | malicor: A lot of the autostop stuff is also if someone casts a faster heal while you're casting a slower one |
| 13:43.31 | malicor | ah |
| 13:43.31 | Wobin_ | So it saves you from wasting mana if someone already heals your target before you do |
| 13:43.58 | Josh_Borke | so my mod will help by showing when someone is healing your target |
| 13:44.10 | Josh_Borke | but krka|work says it's been done |
| 13:44.33 | malicor | wobin: what i meant is that making it a hardware event wont change anything but you have to press a button twice instead once |
| 13:44.39 | krka|work | as a response to: "what about the approach to look if the target you want to heal has >x percent full health, and heal only if not ?" |
| 13:44.47 | Josh_Borke | krka|work: ah :D whew |
| 13:45.09 | Wobin_ | ah yeah mal |
| 13:45.30 | Wobin_ | I think the larger problem isn't that though, since if you're observant, you wouldn't be casting a heal on someone that doesn't need it |
| 13:45.44 | Josh_Borke | i do it all the time to boost my HPS :D |
| 13:45.49 | Kirkburn | Btw, awesomeness: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8361608883834307691&q=van+damme |
| 13:46.06 | Kirkburn | Er, it's NSFW |
| 13:46.17 | Josh_Borke | that and i spam for Mark of the Wild + Power Word: Fortitude to deplete other healers mana |
| 13:46.30 | Josh_Borke | only on trash pulls of course :D |
| 13:46.44 | Wobin_ | That's why I like Needylist =P |
| 13:46.49 | Wobin_ | It shows if they need the buff or not |
| 13:46.59 | Josh_Borke | whispercast ftl! |
| 13:48.49 | malicor | funny-damme :) |
| 13:49.11 | malicor | you all know the super-danish video, dont you ? |
| 13:49.17 | malicor | illegal danish |
| 13:50.32 | malicor | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7382497743921358869&q=danish+super+snacks |
| 13:50.59 | Ktron| | yeah, it's good stuff |
| 13:51.32 | Kirkburn | Arcanite Reaper HOOOOOO! |
| 13:51.38 | Kirkburn | So, er, yes |
| 13:51.40 | malicor | will you join my guuuuild ?:) |
| 13:51.59 | malicor | hey, you're actually join my guild ? we'll go raid molten co... :) |
| 14:13.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 14:19.55 | AnduinLothar | whats' the wdb link? |
| 14:20.21 | Kirkburn | wdb? |
| 14:20.37 | Cairenn|sleep | wdn.wowinterface.com |
| 14:20.40 | Josh_Borke | wdn.wowinterface.com |
| 14:20.49 | AnduinLothar | there we go |
| 14:20.58 | Kirkburn | Dammit, I was gonna paste that too |
| 14:22.56 | AnduinLothar | gonna see if i can get modded up and slashdot it |
| 14:23.11 | Kalroth | ! |
| 14:23.12 | Josh_Borke | lol |
| 14:23.21 | Josh_Borke | you should wait for a patch day |
| 14:24.55 | Kirkburn | Hmm, the new IE Beta is an improvement, but it has a weird flicker issue |
| 14:26.06 | Kirkburn | (a new version came out yesterday btw) |
| 14:26.51 | AnduinLothar | we'll see if that page long spout goes anywhere... prolly not concise enough |
| 14:27.42 | Kirkburn | Can someone explain this screenshot to me http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/imageviewer.html?/contests/contest1/,images/,4,16, |
| 14:27.50 | Cairenn|sleep | AnduinLothar: ? |
| 14:28.24 | Kalroth | Kirkburn: it's in Blackrock Mountain |
| 14:28.32 | Kirkburn | But with a dragon? |
| 14:28.33 | AnduinLothar | http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/0129214 |
| 14:28.44 | Kalroth | Kirkburn: Yeah, there's a static dragon roaming the room |
| 14:29.04 | Kirkburn | I must be blind ... I've never ever seen a dragon in there |
| 14:29.16 | Josh_Borke | that guy is wicked cool |
| 14:29.21 | Josh_Borke | you can't target him though :-( |
| 14:30.10 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 14:31.10 | AnduinLothar | http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 14:31.59 | Kalroth | lol |
| 14:32.12 | Kalroth | things to do before you ask: |
| 14:32.15 | Kalroth | 5. Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend. |
| 14:32.16 | AnduinLothar | no laughing. that is a very informative site |
| 14:32.40 | Kirkburn | It's bloody long though |
| 14:32.43 | Kalroth | I know ESR very well, I've read that HOWTO quite a few times :) |
| 14:33.17 | Kalroth | in short it's: use your brain, don't be lazy .. if you still can't worth it out, ask |
| 14:33.40 | Ktron| | Actually, I think there's 2 drakes in blackrock mountain that circle around that aren't targetable |
| 14:33.41 | Kalroth | work* |
| 14:34.16 | Kalroth | Ktron|: Might be, I've never noticed more than one. I've seen two drakes (BoN faction) in Silithus though |
| 14:36.42 | Kalroth | I like this part: |
| 14:36.43 | Kalroth | "Often, the person telling you to do a search has the manual or the web page with the information you need open, and is looking at it as he or she types. These replies mean that he thinks (a) the information you need is easy to find, and (b) you will learn more if you seek out the information than if you have it spoon-fed to you." |
| 14:37.05 | Tain | Natalie Portman on The Daily Show was hilarious. |
| 14:37.07 | Kalroth | Very true, I always search before I tell people to search :) |
| 14:37.49 | Ktron| | Tain, /agree |
| 14:38.15 | Tain | I just watched it. |
| 14:38.56 | Josh_Borke | CHAT_MSG_SPELL_PARTY_BUFF is the same thing as CHAT_MSG_SPELL_FRIENDLYPLAYER_BUFF but for party only events, correct? |
| 14:40.51 | Wobin_ | what's the range on that sort of message? |
| 14:41.11 | Kalroth | I believe most messages are around 40 yards, but don't quote me on it |
| 14:41.14 | Josh_Borke | i don't know :-( |
| 14:41.17 | Kalroth | never done any real testing on them |
| 14:41.44 | Josh_Borke | what is the server/guild that is setup for modders? |
| 14:41.48 | Wobin_ | cause it'd possibly be very easy to be more than 40y away from another healer =( |
| 14:41.50 | Kalroth | It's only what I can see from raids, distance to ranged classes, etc. |
| 14:42.04 | Kalroth | that's why damage meters etc. synchronize |
| 14:42.06 | Josh_Borke | nvm |
| 14:42.07 | Josh_Borke | i found it :D |
| 14:42.08 | Cairenn|sleep | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651 |
| 14:42.17 | Wobin_ | Hehe |
| 14:42.17 | Josh_Borke | Cairenn|sleep: yep, just pulled up the thread |
| 14:42.21 | Kalroth | Cairenn is sleeptalking! |
| 14:42.28 | Wobin_ | Morning Cair =) |
| 14:42.29 | krka|work | haha: http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/questions-with-yes-or-no-answers.html |
| 14:43.06 | AnduinLothar | Q: |
| 14:43.07 | AnduinLothar | I'm having problems with my Windows machine. Can you help? |
| 14:43.07 | AnduinLothar | A: |
| 14:43.08 | AnduinLothar | Yes. Throw out that Microsoft trash and install an open-source operating system like Linux or BSD. |
| 14:43.15 | Kalroth | That's ESR :) |
| 14:43.37 | malicor | as if linux would make things simpler :) |
| 14:43.38 | Wobin_ | esr? |
| 14:43.40 | malicor | its just different problems |
| 14:43.43 | Kalroth | Eric got a passion for hating Microsoft, even to the point where it gets silly |
| 14:43.44 | ckknight | lousy hippies |
| 14:43.59 | ckknight | esr = eric Raymond |
| 14:44.17 | AnduinLothar | Q: |
| 14:44.18 | AnduinLothar | How can I crack root/steal channel-ops privileges/read someone's e-mail? |
| 14:44.18 | AnduinLothar | A: |
| 14:44.19 | AnduinLothar | You're a lowlife for wanting to do such things and a moron for asking a hacker to help you. |
| 14:44.23 | Kalroth | haha |
| 14:44.24 | Tain | Sometimes evangelist, sometimes prophet, sometimes crazy person. |
| 14:44.39 | ckknight | sometimes racist |
| 14:44.52 | Kalroth | Can you be an OS racist? |
| 14:44.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 14:45.04 | AnduinLothar | OSist |
| 14:45.09 | malicor | yeah :) |
| 14:45.10 | ckknight | no, he's merely racist against Middle Easterners |
| 14:45.21 | Kalroth | OSist: Old Strathcona Integrated Service Team |
| 14:45.43 | Cairenn|sleep | hi hi |
| 14:45.43 | Tain | I hadn't seen that, but I really don't follow him, just when some of his more outreagous comments come to light. |
| 14:45.48 | Tain | Morning Cairenn |
| 14:45.54 | Kalroth | morning sunshine! |
| 14:45.55 | Josh_Borke | morning cair |
| 14:46.20 | AnduinLothar | sleepy time for karl |
| 14:46.24 | ckknight | esr can be a weirdo at times, but he does have some good points |
| 14:46.29 | Kalroth | g'night Karl |
| 14:46.29 | Cairenn | night Karl, sweet dreams |
| 14:46.32 | Kirkburn | Night |
| 14:46.50 | Tain | He has great ideas, revolutionary ideas that the open source community owes a lot to. |
| 14:46.57 | Tain | He's also sometimes a raving lunatic. |
| 14:47.06 | ckknight | yep |
| 14:47.23 | Kalroth | One might actually think he's female! |
| 14:47.35 | Tain | Nah, completely different kind of crazy. |
| 14:48.38 | Tain | I did have a relalation last night about why women think guys are all game-playing assholes. |
| 14:48.54 | Tain | Every girl they've met before they met you has driven them to that. |
| 14:49.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:49.28 | krka|work | heh |
| 14:49.31 | ckknight | that's why my future wife is coming from either Eastern Europe or Asia |
| 14:49.39 | Kalroth | oi, cryptic sentence, give me a minute to digest it |
| 14:49.48 | Tain | My future ex-wife is being born right now. |
| 14:50.14 | krka|work | O_o |
| 14:50.39 | Tain | Damn Oblivion is sure taking its time. |
| 14:50.47 | Kirkburn | Dare I ask how old you are Tain? |
| 14:50.57 | Kalroth | so women thinks that all guys are game-playing assholes before all the girls they met before has driven them to believe that? |
| 14:51.10 | Tain | Me? I'm 32. |
| 14:51.50 | Kirkburn | And what is a reasonable age for you then? :) |
| 14:52.00 | Tain | Who said anything about reasonable? |
| 14:52.03 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 14:52.17 | Kirkburn | So you've already picked your newborn bride? |
| 14:52.29 | Tain | Nah, I'm not that picky. |
| 14:52.48 | Kirkburn | Well done Kalroth! |
| 14:52.55 | malicor | makes things easy :) to be not that picky |
| 14:53.04 | Kirkburn | scissors might be more useful though |
| 14:53.05 | malicor | just 'anyone born about now' :) |
| 14:53.14 | malicor | gives quite a spectrum to pick from |
| 14:53.15 | Tain | A wise man once said, "The key to happiness is lowering your expectations." |
| 14:53.43 | malicor | though if you meant with 'now' in the very SECOND you said it, you'll have some serious problems finding |
| 14:54.35 | Kirkburn | So anyway, you've got Oblivion installing? |
| 14:54.56 | Kirkburn | (I just installed a new IE7 beta, muahaha, how exciting) |
| 14:57.06 | Tain | No, I'm just annoyed that it's taking me so long to get it. |
| 14:57.59 | Kirkburn | Hmm, I thought as much |
| 14:58.30 | Kirkburn | Btw, have they sorted joining channels from outside zones in 1.10? |
| 14:59.30 | krka|work | gah, i hate it when explorer is being a pain in my ass |
| 15:00.29 | ckknight | anybody seen the comic Everybody Loves Eric Raymond? |
| 15:03.38 | Wobin_ | Kirkburn: I can only wish =) |
| 15:03.49 | Wobin_ | I hate having to hang around IF to get a pug |
| 15:04.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|_ (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 15:04.24 | Kirkburn | I'm pretty sure Caydiem said it was being reversed, but I've never heard any more about it |
| 15:05.10 | Kirkburn | It's getting silly with all the people dismissing weather the first time they see it and it's not a heavy shower. It takes a while to explain that it varies ... kinda like real life. Strange that. |
| 15:06.04 | Kalroth | I just hope it's off by default :) |
| 15:07.56 | Kirkburn | Er. Why? |
| 15:08.41 | Kalroth | Because my system is sluggish enough when being outdoors as it is |
| 15:08.51 | Kalroth | barely get 30 FPS in Durotar |
| 15:09.41 | Kirkburn | It's not to processor heavy afaik |
| 15:09.50 | ckknight | it's not off by default, but you can turn it off |
| 15:10.03 | Kirkburn | Well whaddya know, http://www.discordmods.com is back |
| 15:10.03 | Kalroth | Good enough then :) |
| 15:14.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 15:15.35 | krka|work | damn it, i have two almost identical pieces of html and css, one works in IE and one doesn't |
| 15:16.34 | [MoonWolf] | krka, yeah thats the problem with ie, firefox may not adhere to standars perfectly IE messes it up significantly. |
| 15:16.39 | krka|work | yay.... the one i define first in css works, and the second doesn't |
| 15:16.41 | krka|work | great |
| 15:17.47 | krka|work | IE:s id selector seems broken |
| 15:17.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|_ (i=khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 15:22.28 | Adrine | Morning folks. |
| 15:22.53 | Adrine | krka|work: Have a link I can look at? I'm pretty handy with CSS |
| 15:23.53 | Josh_Borke | morning adrine |
| 15:24.03 | Kirkburn | krka|work, is that IE7? |
| 15:24.07 | Adrine | Morning, JoshBorke |
| 15:24.13 | Kirkburn | And I can check it in IE7 :P |
| 15:24.14 | Cairenn | morning :) |
| 15:24.15 | krka|work | IE6 actually |
| 15:24.16 | Adrine | Josh_Borke, JoshBorke? I'm so confused :( |
| 15:24.25 | Adrine | How will I know if I'm talking to the right one?! |
| 15:24.34 | krka|work | no, nothing public, work-related. found a workaround though |
| 15:24.43 | Adrine | One thing to be aware of - |
| 15:24.48 | Adrine | IE doesn't like direct child selectors |
| 15:25.03 | Adrine | that is, body div#id will work, but body > div.#id won't |
| 15:25.31 | krka|work | yeah, know that |
| 15:25.34 | Adrine | Dunno if that was a problem here, but you never know :) |
| 15:25.38 | krka|work | ies selectors are crap |
| 15:25.46 | Adrine | They're less than ideal, anyway. |
| 15:25.53 | krka|work | i was doing #myId.class1 { .... |
| 15:25.59 | krka|work | and then #myId.class2 { |
| 15:26.07 | krka|work | it did not like that at all |
| 15:26.22 | Adrine | I've found that sometimes IE wants the element name prepended to the #id selector. |
| 15:26.24 | Adrine | Dunno why. |
| 15:26.31 | Adrine | But that usually helps it be less flaky. |
| 15:26.44 | krka|work | really? |
| 15:26.48 | Adrine | *shrug* |
| 15:26.53 | Adrine | Seems to have fixed things for me in the past |
| 15:27.02 | Adrine | Since its an ID, the element is presumably unique and known |
| 15:27.06 | Adrine | So it won't really break anything |
| 15:27.27 | krka|work | yeah |
| 15:31.57 | Josh_Borke | Adrine: so i accidently left my home computer still in the channel... :D |
| 15:32.14 | Adrine | I do that all the time. I'm just giving you crap about it. :P |
| 15:32.50 | Josh_Borke | one of these days i'm going to spend some time to get VNC working again |
| 15:36.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=esnickel@ip-66-80-2-118.dsl.sca.megapath.net) |
| 15:51.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 16:00.40 | Tain | Ok, this is cute. |
| 16:00.42 | Tain | http://www.heavyflash.com/poetry/Shakespeare_Sonnet18.html |
| 16:01.02 | Adrine | Heh, yeah |
| 16:05.12 | Cairenn | *boggle* how can someone not know that today is maintenance on the US servers? |
| 16:05.28 | Cairenn | it's only been this way for almost a year now ... |
| 16:05.35 | Wobin_ | I wasn't thinking about the fact that it was tuesday today |
| 16:05.51 | Cairenn | you aren't who I was talking about :p |
| 16:05.57 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3648 |
| 16:08.50 | Josh_Borke | mazzle UI is a long thread... |
| 16:08.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Derkernel (i=belitz@tctk.net) |
| 16:09.11 | Cairenn | it's a bloody annoying one, too |
| 16:09.13 | Wobin_ | two pages? |
| 16:09.30 | Josh_Borke | 45? |
| 16:09.42 | Cairenn | indeed |
| 16:10.33 | Wobin_ | ah that'd do it |
| 16:11.17 | Tain | Down with compilations! |
| 16:11.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge namxo (i=oxman@82.239.244.31) |
| 16:11.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sharkhat (n=sharkhat@dhcp80ff254e.dynamic.uiowa.edu) |
| 16:11.50 | Cairenn | I'm still trying to figure out just what the big deal is with it, but whatever |
| 16:14.04 | Cairenn | I look at it, and I compare it to others that I've seen, and it isn't really "all that" ... |
| 16:14.17 | Tain | They have a better marketing department. |
| 16:15.02 | Cairenn | I guess |
| 16:17.39 | Tain | Tell enough people something is wonderful and they'll buy into it. It's all about perception. |
| 16:18.42 | Kolth | Good morning, Cairenn. Can you turn the servers on please? |
| 16:18.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=esnickel@ip-66-80-2-118.dsl.sca.megapath.net) |
| 16:18.56 | Cairenn | Kolth: heh, test server is up ;) |
| 16:19.06 | Kolth | Ah :) |
| 16:19.08 | Qzot | With patch? |
| 16:19.09 | Cairenn | other than that, nope, sorry |
| 16:19.14 | Cairenn | Qzot: no patch |
| 16:19.20 | Qzot | Ahh. It's morning. |
| 16:19.31 | Qzot | It's morning enough I forgot it was *Tuesday* morning. |
| 16:19.54 | Qzot | Stupid me. I laid in a bunch of auctions before going to bed last night. What a waste. |
| 16:20.15 | Adrine | Heh |
| 16:20.37 | Qzot | Monday night is for *bidding*. Not putting stuff up for sale. |
| 16:20.55 | krka|work | hmm... this is only in us right? |
| 16:20.59 | krka|work | i also have auctions |
| 16:21.06 | Tain | If anyone uses the G15 someone put together some nice templates for printing out overlays for the G macro keys. http://www.g15forums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1420 |
| 16:22.15 | Adrine | Well poo. |
| 16:22.25 | Adrine | It looks like WoW rotates pieces of the border textures. |
| 16:22.26 | Qzot | Auction question: Looking at the API, it seems to permit you to specify how many minutes the auction should run. Anyone know if values between 2 and 24 hours work? |
| 16:22.30 | Adrine | Specifically the top and bottom tile pieces. |
| 16:22.35 | Adrine | Which I can't do in HTML. |
| 16:23.11 | Qzot | Adrine: html is not widely known as an image editor, no. |
| 16:23.28 | Adrine | Bleh. I had such nice TexCoord emulation going, too. |
| 16:23.55 | krka|work | TexCoord in html? O_o |
| 16:24.00 | krka|work | that would be impressive |
| 16:24.01 | Adrine | :) |
| 16:24.09 | Adrine | Not as hard as you might thing, actually. |
| 16:24.12 | krka|work | really? |
| 16:24.17 | Adrine | Just clever use of divs and overflow:hidden |
| 16:24.17 | krka|work | you can rotate stuff in html? |
| 16:24.22 | Adrine | Not rotate, no |
| 16:24.31 | krka|work | oh... the old version of TexCoord then |
| 16:24.32 | Adrine | TexCoords allow you to specific a portion of a texture to use |
| 16:24.35 | Adrine | Right |
| 16:24.40 | Adrine | No rotation, unfortunately. |
| 16:24.47 | Adrine | At least not that I've figured out yet. ;) |
| 16:25.00 | Adrine | I could do it with a PHP processor, but that would be a bit expensive. |
| 16:25.05 | krka|work | heh |
| 16:25.22 | krka|work | might aswell just generate an image from all of it |
| 16:26.34 | Adrine | Yeah. |
| 16:40.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:02.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce4.disney.com) |
| 17:12.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:13.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Crispix (n=Crispy@c-24-7-241-103.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 17:29.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:32.10 | Qzot | Later. |
| 17:32.19 | Cairenn | later Qzot |
| 17:32.23 | Adrine | Later! |
| 17:32.36 | JoshBorke | no one is on draka to invite me to the guild :-( |
| 17:32.39 | JoshBorke | later Qzot |
| 17:32.56 | Cairenn | JoshBorke: letting folks know you're wanting an invite helps ;) |
| 17:32.59 | Cairenn | which side? |
| 17:33.02 | JoshBorke | alliance :-) |
| 17:33.14 | JoshBorke | i did a /who 'load on demand' hoping someone would be on :D |
| 17:33.47 | Cairenn | name? |
| 17:34.04 | JoshBorke | hamarian |
| 17:35.07 | JoshBorke | danke cair :) |
| 17:35.10 | Cairenn | np hun |
| 17:52.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 17:59.22 | JoshBorke | ( Cairenn ): i can't seem to sort the downloads under the beta section except in ascending order (a->z) or (oldest -> newest) |
| 17:59.52 | Cairenn | that's rather odd .... toss a note up in the bug forum for Dolby, please? |
| 18:00.18 | JoshBorke | no problem :-) |
| 18:00.29 | Cairenn | danke |
| 18:01.12 | Adrine | Still working on it, but borders and textures are working to an extent! |
| 18:01.13 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/uiviewer/parser.php?file=Healcap.xml |
| 18:01.25 | Adrine | I guess font definitions should be next. |
| 18:02.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RABID-Maya (n=BC@216.31.182.146) |
| 18:03.47 | JoshBorke | where are the colors? :-( |
| 18:03.56 | Adrine | The colors are programmatic :) |
| 18:03.58 | JoshBorke | but very nice :D |
| 18:04.04 | Adrine | But they're not really important, since this is more about layout. |
| 18:05.31 | JoshBorke | true |
| 18:13.03 | Adrine | Ouch. Friz Quadrata does not render well in browsers at all. |
| 18:18.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:23.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 18:23.58 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 18:24.04 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 18:25.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:25.29 | Iriel | Morning |
| 18:25.36 | Cairenn | hey Iriel :) |
| 18:25.38 | Shouryuu | hello |
| 18:25.47 | [MoonWolf] | morning |
| 18:27.04 | Kalroth | hi Iriel honey! |
| 18:36.50 | Josh_Borke | morning iriel |
| 18:36.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 18:36.54 | Josh_Borke | hello Shouryuu |
| 18:37.05 | Adrine | Hey Josh, check it out :) |
| 18:37.05 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/uiviewer/parser.php?file=Healcap.xml |
| 18:37.09 | Adrine | Colors working correctly. |
| 18:37.20 | Josh_Borke | :D |
| 18:37.23 | Josh_Borke | woohoo! |
| 18:37.28 | Adrine | (Looks more authentic if you have the Friz Quadratic font installed in your system fonts directory) |
| 18:37.42 | Gryphen | link? |
| 18:37.42 | Josh_Borke | where's the progress on healcap? :-P |
| 18:37.43 | Gryphen | :) |
| 18:38.00 | Adrine | Haven't done anything on it since yesterday :) |
| 18:38.12 | Adrine | And the font is at...let's see |
| 18:38.18 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/uiviewer/fonts/FRIZQT__.TTF |
| 18:38.22 | Adrine | Or not. |
| 18:38.28 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/uiviewer/Fonts/FRIZQT__.TTF ? |
| 18:38.33 | Adrine | There we go. |
| 18:40.16 | Adrine | Ohohoho. I just included and parsed UIPanelTemplates.xml and the close button and scroll buttons showed up as expected. Now I just have to figure out why they aren't positioned right. :) |
| 18:40.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge THaSouTHBeACHHoT (n=irc@66-90-143-73.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 19:12.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Codayus (i=cody@l0gical.net) |
| 19:48.49 | Tain | Mod to turn all herbs into blocks to make them more visible. Brilliant! |
| 19:49.07 | Josh_Borke | BRILLIANT! |
| 19:49.11 | Josh_Borke | it should double their size |
| 19:49.29 | Kirov | Can it make herbs not float 20 feet in the air? |
| 19:49.30 | Kirov | ;) |
| 19:49.36 | krka | Brillant! |
| 19:54.03 | Kirov | http://youtube.com/watch?v=iWqGLVaITsk&search=guinness |
| 19:54.10 | Iriel | It's brilliant in terms of getting model replacement disabled. |
| 19:55.48 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:56.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowd (n=outlaw@mocha.kamungus.net) |
| 19:56.18 | Adrine | Easy to do, but not a good idea. |
| 19:56.35 | Adrine | And given herb radar, not really necessary |
| 19:56.43 | krka | getting stuff disabled is where the fun is |
| 19:57.01 | krka | well, this means you can use the radar for something else |
| 19:57.02 | Kirov | <- doesn't want purple dragonstalker again |
| 19:57.43 | Tain | Model replacement should be disabled in my opinion. |
| 19:57.53 | Kirov | http://ui.worldofwar.net/images/ui/1137027262redRecolor.jpg |
| 19:58.04 | Kirov | As long as they keep texture replacement, I'm peachy |
| 19:58.09 | Kirov | >.< |
| 19:58.19 | Tain | Well texture replacement has functions in-game for it. |
| 19:58.27 | Tain | Models don't. |
| 19:58.42 | Adrine | Not on models, AFAIK |
| 19:58.49 | Iriel | No part of the game world should be user-editable |
| 19:58.50 | Iriel | period. |
| 19:59.04 | Kirov | I'm replacing armor skins. |
| 19:59.05 | Adrine | Eh. Not really something that's stoppable. |
| 19:59.09 | Tain | Ok, I'm talking about texture replacement on frames. Not models. |
| 19:59.10 | Iriel | Sure it is |
| 19:59.10 | Kirov | Sure it is. |
| 19:59.13 | Kirov | It's easily stoppable |
| 19:59.16 | Iriel | they can sign those files |
| 19:59.18 | Shouryuu | lol, jinx |
| 19:59.18 | Adrine | Anything client-side is untrusted. |
| 19:59.19 | Iriel | just like they did UI files |
| 19:59.30 | Iriel | Sure, you could hack the client to allow them |
| 19:59.33 | Kirov | They have for GluaXML, and they will for FrameXML in 1.10, no idea why they even left it enabled to begin with. |
| 19:59.36 | Adrine | Right. |
| 19:59.37 | Iriel | but then you're in breach of your ToS and get banned |
| 19:59.44 | krka | they can make it extremely painful to get around it |
| 19:59.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=neffa@202-180-108-154.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 19:59.58 | Adrine | They could just say "Don't replace or you're banned" and get the same effect with no technical effort then :) |
| 20:00.14 | Kirov | What's odd to note is they never, ever disabled this stuff for Wacraft3 |
| 20:00.31 | Tain | Apples to ogres comparison. |
| 20:00.38 | Shouryuu | dunno |
| 20:00.49 | Kirov | As far as I know, even officially sanctioned competitions didn't have rules against model and texture replacement. |
| 20:00.55 | Kirov | That's the part that pokes me |
| 20:01.20 | Kirov | Replacing models and textures is already against the TOS, specifically player models / textures. |
| 20:01.30 | Kirov | But they've already officially stated that no one has been banned for it. |
| 20:01.33 | Shouryuu | I guess you could change the texture of strategical units, such as priests, to target them easier... |
| 20:01.52 | Shouryuu | In WC3 |
| 20:01.55 | Miravlix | Graphics is part of the 'challenge' in playing |
| 20:02.05 | Iriel | Nobody's been banned for it because most folks have been following fairly reasonable guidelines |
| 20:02.07 | Miravlix | Changing it can give you a significant advantage |
| 20:02.28 | Iriel | As soon as you start seeing day-glow giant gnomes, and high visibility herbs it changes the balance |
| 20:02.43 | Iriel | It's then only a matter of time before it gets disabled |
| 20:03.51 | Kirov | I think that's one of the reasons why wowmodelviewer's site disappeared |
| 20:03.52 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 20:04.08 | Kirov | They'd compiled the complete information on wow's model and animation format |
| 20:04.40 | Kirov | Enough that a decent art tools programer could make a converter or exporter. |
| 20:05.05 | krka | i am trapped in uldaman |
| 20:05.12 | krka | can't HS, can't logout, can't teleport |
| 20:05.26 | Iriel | Kill your client |
| 20:05.35 | Iriel | You're never too trapped for that 8-) |
| 20:05.39 | krka | true |
| 20:05.57 | krka | already tried blizzarding myself to deth |
| 20:05.57 | krka | death |
| 20:06.13 | Iriel | can you do death by scorpid pit? |
| 20:06.25 | Iriel | they tend to be pretty effective |
| 20:07.24 | Tain | Can you cast damage on yourself in WoW? It just occured to me that I have no idea. |
| 20:07.27 | krka | already killed wow |
| 20:07.31 | krka | no you can't |
| 20:07.32 | Adrine | Tain: Hellfire. :) |
| 20:07.35 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 20:07.41 | krka | atleast i can't :) |
| 20:07.42 | Adrine | It's hilarious when we're raiding |
| 20:07.44 | Adrine | Wipe incoming |
| 20:07.46 | Legorol | g'morning |
| 20:07.50 | Adrine | And all the warlocks start hellfiring themselves. |
| 20:07.52 | Shouryuu | morning |
| 20:07.54 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:07.58 | krka | morning lego |
| 20:08.04 | Legorol | hmm.. EU version of test client launches the background downloader and tries to download a US patch |
| 20:08.05 | Adrine | (Hellfire death = no durability hit) |
| 20:08.10 | krka | ah |
| 20:08.10 | Legorol | i somehow doubt that's right |
| 20:08.17 | Tain | Ah, Warlocks have to do something to feel useful I suppose. |
| 20:08.22 | krka | servers are fucked now |
| 20:08.28 | krka | can you connect lego? |
| 20:09.04 | krka | wait a second.... morning? |
| 20:09.49 | Legorol | yeah, in UGT |
| 20:09.58 | Legorol | Cairenn taught me that wherever you are in the world, |
| 20:10.00 | krka | Universal Gnome Time? |
| 20:10.03 | Legorol | when you come on IRC it's morning |
| 20:10.06 | Legorol | Universal Greeting Time |
| 20:10.10 | Legorol | and when you leave, it's evening |
| 20:10.20 | krka | whoa weird... i have another friend from a completely different context that says the same thing |
| 20:10.20 | Legorol | that way noone needs to worry about actual local times etc. |
| 20:10.28 | krka | i wonder if they are connected somehow |
| 20:10.30 | Kirov | lol |
| 20:10.45 | Legorol | anyways, i am able to connect to test realms fine, krka |
| 20:10.51 | Legorol | i'm playing right now, on 5174 build |
| 20:10.57 | Legorol | but when i log in, the background downloader launches |
| 20:10.58 | krka | test... who cares about that :P |
| 20:11.03 | Legorol | I do :D |
| 20:11.11 | Legorol | in fact that's the only thing i logged on to for the past few weeks |
| 20:11.12 | krka | well obviously you :P |
| 20:11.17 | Legorol | no wonder my mains are not levelling |
| 20:11.35 | Legorol | hm, but the login server *is* down, so it seems |
| 20:11.37 | krka | are they perhaps level 60? |
| 20:11.37 | Legorol | i can't post on forum |
| 20:11.40 | krka | if so, they can't really level more |
| 20:11.42 | Legorol | no, i don't have a lvl 60 |
| 20:11.52 | Legorol | go figure |
| 20:11.57 | krka | i don't either |
| 20:12.14 | krka | oh well, i can't connect |
| 20:12.20 | krka | time to do something else that's unproductive |
| 20:12.26 | Legorol | wait |
| 20:12.28 | Tain | Does anyone have any idea what I just logged on the PTR to test? Because for the life of me I can't remember. |
| 20:13.24 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:13.51 | Legorol | Tain: that method that Tem had for crashing WoW |
| 20:13.53 | Legorol | you were going to try it |
| 20:14.01 | Legorol | unfortunately i forget the method :D |
| 20:14.17 | Tem | ? |
| 20:14.22 | Tem | which? |
| 20:15.40 | Tain | I just remembered. Keybindings! |
| 20:15.53 | Tain | UPDATE_BINDINGS now fires in 1.10 when you actually... update a binding. |
| 20:16.02 | krka | ooh, that was my bug report! |
| 20:16.03 | krka | kinda |
| 20:16.48 | Tain | Oooh and my workaround will still work fine until 1.10 and I can just comment it out after 1.10 and everything will be happy. |
| 20:17.26 | krka | hmm... xrandr is not working |
| 20:17.27 | krka | weird |
| 20:18.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (n=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 20:18.57 | krka | ctrl alt backspace FTW |
| 20:29.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-88-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:29.24 | Iriel | Tain: It's in my change document already (the UPDATE_BINDINGS bug fix) 8-) |
| 20:29.35 | Iriel | Tain: slouken promised it'd be fixed in 1.10 some time ago |
| 20:30.14 | malreth | eating glass makes you strong! |
| 20:30.33 | Iriel | Mmmm, glass |
| 20:32.08 | Tain | Duly noted! |
| 20:34.24 | Shouryuu | I'm going craazzzyy |
| 20:34.46 | Shouryuu | has anyone here ever used some paper on which you print, then iron onto a shirt? |
| 20:34.49 | malreth | crazy? i was crazy once |
| 20:34.50 | sharkhat | green glass is more healthy than brown glass |
| 20:34.57 | malreth | they put me in the room |
| 20:35.01 | malreth | with these rats |
| 20:35.10 | malreth | rats? i hate rats... they make me crazy |
| 20:35.14 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:35.17 | malreth | crazy? i was crazy once... |
| 20:35.21 | sharkhat | and clear glass... well, no one easts tasteless glass |
| 20:35.34 | Shouryuu | okkk so no one used such paper... |
| 20:35.39 | malreth | i have... once |
| 20:35.39 | Tain | Isn't sanity just a one trick pony anyway? |
| 20:35.58 | malreth | what's the problem that you're having, citizen Shouryuu? |
| 20:36.23 | Shouryuu | I can't get that dumb paper to stick on my shirt! |
| 20:36.33 | Tain | Have you tried staples? |
| 20:36.34 | malreth | is your iron hot enough? |
| 20:36.34 | Miravlix | Super glue is your friend! |
| 20:36.43 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 20:36.44 | malreth | and make sure you don't have the steam thing turned on |
| 20:36.51 | malreth | steam ruins it |
| 20:36.52 | Shouryuu | I don't |
| 20:37.10 | malreth | then it's probably a matter of applying heat for long enough a period of time |
| 20:37.10 | Shouryuu | I need to find an Ironing FAQ |
| 20:37.55 | Shouryuu | did you have to print the picture right side left? |
| 20:37.59 | malreth | they make sheets of teflon (or is it silicon?) that you can use to place between the transfer paper and your iron |
| 20:38.10 | malreth | yes, you have to flip horizontally before printing |
| 20:38.17 | Shouryuu | ok did that |
| 20:38.23 | Miravlix | anyone know of a hackers annonymous group for my friend? |
| 20:38.58 | Shouryuu | I am part of an annonymus hacking group called hackers annonymous and made of several annomymous hackers |
| 20:41.02 | Miravlix | I'm err I mean he is seriusly addicted to hacking other peoples addons |
| 20:41.28 | malreth | grr... they want me to set up 15 laptops for a class tomorrow... |
| 20:41.36 | malreth | only problem: they only gave me 13 laptops |
| 20:41.48 | Shadowd | malreth: cardboard and markers are your friend |
| 20:41.59 | malreth | somehow, i have to *magically* make two more laptops appear |
| 20:42.11 | Miravlix | My server has a box made out of cardboard |
| 20:42.15 | Miravlix | Not makers though |
| 20:42.34 | malreth | nevermind that they never reimaged these machines from the last time they were used... |
| 20:42.42 | Miravlix | Naah just kill two of the students |
| 20:42.59 | malreth | and that they want specific static ips assigned to each machine... |
| 20:42.59 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:43.16 | malreth | so i can't just ASR the images out |
| 20:43.24 | Miravlix | Why not? |
| 20:43.44 | Miravlix | Just configure the DHCP server to give them the static IP requested. |
| 20:44.01 | Shadowd | Call in sick? |
| 20:44.20 | malreth | i'm at a university... it's someone else's job to muck with the DHCP server |
| 20:44.34 | malreth | translation: ice cube's chance in hell |
| 20:45.28 | malreth | though, i could probably write a post-install script to do that |
| 20:45.47 | malreth | but it's only 15... wait, 13 machines so the effort hardly seems worth it |
| 20:46.21 | malreth | it'd be faster to just open each one up, change the IP manually, than to reimage them over the network |
| 20:46.48 | malreth | especially since the network that i'd have to reimage them over doesn't have a DHCP server, now that I think of it |
| 20:52.57 | Miravlix | Since we already killed two students, we can take there computer and set it up as a DHCP server |
| 20:53.14 | Miravlix | Violence solves all problems |
| 20:53.49 | Shouryuu | omg I am such an idiot |
| 20:54.08 | Shouryuu | I accidently put my iron on one of those transfert papaer |
| 20:54.19 | Shouryuu | what was on the paper is printed on my iron |
| 20:56.25 | Shouryuu | I now have a beer logo printed on my iron |
| 20:56.29 | Shouryuu | whipee! |
| 21:04.24 | Shouryuu | Death to cows! |
| 21:05.18 | Shouryuu | I r frustrated |
| 21:13.36 | Shouryuu | and why why why can't anyone get my name right... Why does everyone call me Shoryuu |
| 21:13.57 | Adrine | I just call you sh<tab> |
| 21:14.01 | Adrine | Well |
| 21:14.03 | Adrine | sh<tabtab> |
| 21:14.30 | Shouryuu | sharkhat is sh<tab> I guess |
| 21:14.40 | Adrine | Indeed. |
| 21:15.56 | Tain | Yeah you're Sho<tab> to me |
| 21:16.13 | Shouryuu | I don't have that tab thing |
| 21:16.20 | Shouryuu | what clients are you using? |
| 21:16.28 | Shouryuu | <===Xircon |
| 21:17.16 | Adrine | Trillian here |
| 21:18.09 | Tain | BitchX |
| 21:18.13 | Shouryuu | w00t |
| 21:18.38 | ckknight | Trillian |
| 21:18.57 | Shouryuu | what's the shortcut to change tab using Firefox? |
| 21:19.08 | Adrine | ctrl-tab and ctrl-shift-tab works |
| 21:19.20 | Adrine | as does ctrl-<number row key> |
| 21:19.25 | Adrine | Or ctrl-pageup/pagedown |
| 21:20.15 | Shouryuu | wooot thanks |
| 21:35.40 | malreth | RAWR!!! |
| 21:35.57 | malreth | i go through all this trouble to set up these laptops for a class tomorrow... |
| 21:36.05 | malreth | ...and they just canceled the class |
| 21:36.25 | malreth | that's an hour and a half of my life that i can never reclaim! |
| 21:37.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Verlaine (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:37.58 | Verlaine | how do I actualy join an IRC channel using trillian. My internet is ****** up and I can't load the readme |
| 21:39.08 | Josh_Borke | ctrl+tab too |
| 21:39.37 | Adrine | Verlaine: try /join #channel-name |
| 21:40.46 | Kirov | Verlaine, try setting up an initial channel to join from the connection manager |
| 21:41.04 | Verlaine | I'm shouryuu btw |
| 21:41.20 | Kirov | or click on the "IRC" connection and select "Show Status Window" |
| 21:51.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 22:00.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:20.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:20.22 | Shouryuu | w00t |
| 22:24.28 | Shouryuu | I'm going slightly mad |
| 22:35.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu_ (n=Shouryuu@92.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:35.15 | Shouryuu_ | I hate history. Hate, hate, hate hate hate hate |
| 22:36.33 | Shouryuu_ | "What role, what place for the State from 1945 to 1970"... ARgh! |
| 22:36.41 | krka | without history there is no progress |
| 22:37.14 | Miravlix | Without History we couldn't know how freaking stupid we are for repeating the past mistakes over and over and over nad over |
| 22:37.22 | Shouryuu_ | History doesn |
| 22:37.24 | Shouryuu_ | t |
| 22:37.30 | Shouryuu_ | repeat itself |
| 22:37.35 | Shouryuu_ | it stutters =P |
| 22:37.40 | Shouryuu_ | but still, that sbject sucks |
| 22:37.59 | Miravlix | Pol Pot, Hitler, Milocovich |
| 22:38.13 | Miravlix | They all kill a lot of people because they aren't the right ones |
| 22:38.16 | Shouryuu_ | ain't the problem at had |
| 22:38.32 | Miravlix | Seems like history does nothing but repeat it self with bigger weapons |
| 22:38.37 | Shouryuu_ | hehe |
| 22:39.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 22:41.11 | krka | see? progress! |
| 22:43.01 | Shouryuu_ | If anyone manages to explain to me the limits of the application of Keynes' economic theory during the 1960's, I'll call that person my hero for the rest of my life |
| 22:43.18 | Tain | It was all the hippies. |
| 22:43.28 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 22:43.31 | Ktron|_ | the limits were probably the 1970's, when they got rid of it in favor of somethign else |
| 22:43.49 | Tain | They screwed everything up with their communal, non-capitalistic living. |
| 22:44.09 | Shouryuu_ | and they floated, burn the hippies |
| 22:45.06 | Shouryuu_ | But I need to find limits of State intervention during that period |
| 22:45.37 | Shouryuu_ | my books don't say much, the intranet is no help, and my notes are just... mute |
| 22:46.12 | sharkhat | the really criminallized pot, so all the hippies went into hiding, they are now living in suburbia... see Weeds... |
| 22:47.25 | Tain | Oh, well see the US government was too busy faking moon landings and plotting the Kennedy assassination. |
| 22:47.59 | Iriel | I assume you mean FRENCH State intervention? |
| 22:48.46 | Shouryuu_ | no in general |
| 22:49.15 | Shouryuu_ | well in lieral countries |
| 22:49.21 | Shouryuu_ | *liberal |
| 22:49.31 | Shouryuu_ | as in economically liberal |
| 22:49.52 | Shouryuu_ | couldn't give a rat's ass about Congo's State intervention during that period |
| 22:50.08 | Tain | Aww. :( |
| 22:50.21 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 22:53.56 | Codayus | Uh....looking for evidence of the abandonment of keynsia economics during the '60s? |
| 22:54.06 | Codayus | keynesian, even |
| 22:54.10 | Shouryuu_ | yeah pretty much |
| 22:54.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge {RA}BC-Werk (n=BC@216.31.182.146) |
| 22:54.47 | Tain | Oooh here's Alan Greenspan talking smack about Keynes, that's pretty interesting. |
| 22:54.49 | Tain | http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,16849-1823177,00.html |
| 22:54.56 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 22:55.08 | Codayus | Hrm. Not too familiar with that kind of stuff. |
| 22:55.41 | Shouryuu_ | I don't really need in depth really complicated shit, I just need to be able to speak for about 4-5mins |
| 22:56.33 | Codayus | hrm. let me think |
| 22:57.09 | Codayus | when did nixon instiutee price controls? |
| 22:57.23 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/uiviewer/?file=Healcap.xml |
| 22:57.37 | Adrine | Still have some issues to work out with multiple levels of virtual inheritance, as you can see from the scroll bars... |
| 22:57.40 | Adrine | ..but it's getting there. |
| 22:57.55 | Codayus | hmmm, no access to google where I am...bah. |
| 22:58.17 | Tain | What? How is that possible? |
| 22:58.21 | Tain | How would Google allow such a thing! |
| 22:58.27 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 23:03.17 | Codayus | Hmm, sounds like a fun class. |
| 23:03.20 | Codayus | What is it? |
| 23:04.41 | Codayus | I'm in a really boring class....decision support systems ftl. |
| 23:04.50 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 23:05.08 | Shouryuu_ | stcuk at home tryinig to find something to say for this godamn History subject |
| 23:05.31 | Codayus | History? I was assuming economics. |
| 23:05.46 | Shouryuu_ | It's a mix of both |
| 23:05.58 | Codayus | Oh well, I guess keynsian economics fits a lot better in a history class than a history class. :-P |
| 23:06.04 | Codayus | arg |
| 23:06.08 | Codayus | history tahn economcs |
| 23:06.09 | Shouryuu_ | lol |
| 23:06.52 | Shouryuu_ | aye |
| 23:12.33 | Kirov | Adrine - nice |
| 23:16.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 23:17.40 | Adrine | It marches on. :) |
| 23:24.06 | Shouryuu_ | night folks |
| 23:29.12 | Josh_Borke | ok bye :-) |
| 23:30.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.21.178) |
| 23:31.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.248.251) |
| 23:34.30 | Kirkburn | I have a worrying feeling I've found why my DVD drive doesn't work properly ... StarForce |
| 23:34.41 | Tain | haha StarForce ruins the day again! |
| 23:35.03 | Kirkburn | It's been like this for quite some time since december or so |
| 23:35.15 | Kirkburn | I need to check exactly when I installed a certain program |
| 23:35.24 | Miravlix | Actually all the Starforce horror stories doesn't really exist |
| 23:35.41 | Miravlix | It's a pain in the but for pirates but it doesn't really ruin you world |
| 23:35.45 | Tain | Sort of like the moon landing, huh. |
| 23:36.25 | Tain | haha it's a pain in the butt for pirates? It's barely noticible for pirates, it's a pain in the ass for end-users trying to use store-bought software. |
| 23:36.39 | Miravlix | 99% of the problems is made up by pirates ppl pissed at Starforce being sutch a problem |
| 23:36.51 | Miravlix | 1% has problem all software breaks somewhere |
| 23:36.52 | Kirkburn | The symptoms I'm getting is slowed reading times, as has been reported in the Neowin article |
| 23:37.18 | Kirkburn | Problem is, I don't want to get rid of Trackmania, just starforce |
| 23:37.21 | Tain | Whether that statistic is pulled out of someone's ass or not, it's the nature of what it installs and *how* it can break things that is more important. |
| 23:37.43 | Kirkburn | It can instantly reboot computers |
| 23:38.08 | Kirkburn | Grah! |
| 23:39.22 | Kirkburn | What to do, what to do ... |
| 23:40.44 | Kirkburn | Weird thing was the DVD drive started clunking at first and wouldn't read a certain DVD. But as far as I recall, I had not made any changes to the system at the time. And now it runs the DVDs fine, but reads them reaally slowly |
| 23:43.29 | Kirkburn | Lol, the company which distributes the StarForce cleaning utility (eh, StarForce don't do it themselves?) makes almost identical claims about the emulators which it's fighting against |
| 23:53.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=none@r35h65.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:54.15 | Kirkburn | Okay, I'm getting increasinly shocked and worried by this StarForce thing ... it's a hell of a lot bigger than you thought. It's just there wasn't a big thing to bring it to people's attentions |
| 23:54.53 | Kirkburn | (StarForce meanwhile has decided that all this is sponsored by the pirate industry and want's to sue everyone) |
