| 00:00.13 | End | I dunno, the idea came pretty quickly to me as a possibility :P |
| 00:00.14 | Iriel | zespri_work : Slouken's a very smart guy |
| 00:01.02 | dukeku | doesn't slouken work on SDL a bit? |
| 00:01.06 | Iriel | And a little bird just indicated that they do indeed use the taint model |
| 00:01.07 | zespri_work | What I mean is that it's not immideatly obvious where to set and rest this flag. |
| 00:01.09 | End | more than just work on |
| 00:01.34 | End | he first wrote it I believe |
| 00:01.55 | dukeku | well, damn |
| 00:02.08 | dukeku | that's quite an accomplishment :P |
| 00:02.11 | zespri_work | what is sdl? |
| 00:02.17 | dukeku | simple direct media layer |
| 00:02.18 | krka | slouken is very smart |
| 00:02.34 | krka | which isn't necessarily a good thing for us :) |
| 00:02.42 | dukeku | haha |
| 00:02.42 | zeeg | lies |
| 00:02.46 | zeeg | its all a cover |
| 00:03.10 | dukeku | i've been writing an SDL app for a while, just noticed his name pops up all over lists when i poke around :X |
| 00:03.26 | Cairenn | that's because he's the creator |
| 00:03.31 | dukeku | yeah, as it seems |
| 00:03.58 | krka | probably why he got hired by bliz, i guess |
| 00:04.03 | zespri_work | Iriel, what would be possible reaons for you to choose taint model over stack walk model if it was you who implemented this meausre? |
| 00:04.21 | krka | faster? |
| 00:04.32 | krka | hmm.. no wait |
| 00:04.44 | Iriel | Well, it's more robust, and I can explicitly taint execution paths before they start |
| 00:05.36 | Iriel | It's easier to catch the moment of tainting also, if the program flow hits untrusted code but then retreats from it and returns to trusted code |
| 00:05.57 | krka | to clarify: by taint we mean inserting set dirty-flag-code at beginning of untrusted functions, and by stack walk we mean check if any untrusted functions are on the stack before doing anything sensitive |
| 00:06.19 | Iriel | yes, though i'd replace "at the beginning of" with "before passing control to" |
| 00:06.45 | krka | that seems _less_ robust |
| 00:06.46 | Iriel | It'd be down in the virtual machine at the CALL/TAILCALL level |
| 00:06.50 | krka | how do you know that before? |
| 00:06.59 | Iriel | well, the machine knows what it's about to run |
| 00:07.04 | Iriel | and whether that's trusted |
| 00:07.06 | krka | ah... that way |
| 00:07.33 | Iriel | I agree if this was implemented entirely at the lua level, a taint flag is much LESS robust |
| 00:07.46 | krka | that could be circumvented by remapping functions |
| 00:08.10 | Iriel | exactly. |
| 00:08.13 | krka | function BlizFunA() BlizFunB() end |
| 00:08.17 | krka | -- my code: |
| 00:08.28 | krka | BlizFunB = UntouchableFun |
| 00:08.34 | krka | BlizFunA() |
| 00:09.21 | krka | that would circumvent a stack-check too though |
| 00:09.56 | krka | no wait... hmm.. i might be too tired for this |
| 00:10.46 | krka | as long as you don't actually call BlizFunA() yourself, it should work |
| 00:13.11 | Iriel | Why? |
| 00:13.34 | Iriel | (Or are you talking about the self-implemented tainting model, in lua, which we already established wouldn't be very good)? |
| 00:14.17 | zespri_work | is there a c API that allows to catch a moment when a closure created ( to mark it as trusted or non-trusted)? |
| 00:14.18 | krka | nope |
| 00:14.30 | krka | first you do: BlizFunB = UntouchableFun |
| 00:14.39 | krka | then wait for a new clean entrypoint |
| 00:14.51 | krka | i.e. the system calls BlizFunA by itself |
| 00:14.54 | Iriel | zespri_work : Not an API per-se, but you just edit the code that defines the closure in your implementation of lua |
| 00:15.09 | krka | you've essentially modified blizzards code without inserting any code of your own |
| 00:15.27 | Iriel | krka: yes, the UntouchableFun closure object will be tainted |
| 00:15.38 | Iriel | krka: so you'll get caught by either a stack trace OR a taint flag |
| 00:16.04 | Iriel | Just because trusted code calls your function doesn't make your function trusted |
| 00:16.28 | krka | it doesn't call my function |
| 00:16.33 | Iriel | Oh, I see what you mean |
| 00:16.33 | krka | it calls another one of its own function |
| 00:16.44 | Iriel | yes, I dont expect that to be a 'problem' per se |
| 00:17.15 | Iriel | But it's a definite avenue to go down in trying to explore the boundaries of the UI |
| 00:17.30 | Legorol | so what are your conclusion, what's most likely? |
| 00:17.45 | Legorol | are function objects tagged? or clousers? or is it an execution-time dirty flag? |
| 00:17.45 | krka | no, probably can't do much useful with that :/ |
| 00:18.43 | Iriel | I'm not sure if its prototypes or closures, i'd hope it's closures though |
| 00:18.51 | zespri_work | even if we are talking of c implemetatition taint model will require to make a check on each closure call. which is by defenition less robust then jsut a stack walk when we need it |
| 00:19.26 | Iriel | zespri The stack walk doesn't catch this: |
| 00:19.41 | Iriel | BlizzFunction() calls MyFunction then calls ProtectedBlizzFunction |
| 00:20.02 | krka | doesn't it? |
| 00:20.07 | krka | you mean by TAILCALL? |
| 00:20.13 | Iriel | Just a normal call |
| 00:20.31 | krka | why doesn't it catch it? |
| 00:20.33 | Iriel | stack goes from BlizzFunction -> BlizzFunction MyFunction -> BlizzFunction -> BlizzFunction ProtectedBlizzFunction |
| 00:20.36 | zespri_work | my function will be on stack |
| 00:20.58 | Iriel | No, i'm not saying MyFunction calls ProtectedBlizzFunction |
| 00:21.00 | krka | yeah, how do you hide your function on the stack? |
| 00:21.06 | Iriel | I'm saying MyFunction is called BEFORE ProtectedBlizzFunction |
| 00:21.39 | zespri_work | why does this need to be cought? |
| 00:21.42 | krka | yes... and 0 MyFunctions are allowed to execute Protected |
| 00:22.02 | Iriel | because you can do the things blizzard dont want done, that way |
| 00:22.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 00:22.26 | zespri_work | you can't possibly hook ProtextedBlizzFunction this way, can you? |
| 00:22.32 | Iriel | You could change WHICH ProtectedBlizzFunction gets called |
| 00:22.38 | Iriel | Or whether it gets called at all |
| 00:22.53 | zespri_work | could I? |
| 00:23.11 | Iriel | Sure |
| 00:23.18 | zespri_work | how for example? |
| 00:23.20 | Legorol | i don't see how |
| 00:23.21 | Iriel | ProtectedBlizzFunction = SomeOtherProtectedBlizzFunction |
| 00:23.22 | krka | i am not seeing how this can't be detected by a stack walk |
| 00:23.27 | Iriel | ProtectedBlizzFunction = function() end |
| 00:23.42 | Iriel | Unless blizzard code starts locally binding function references |
| 00:23.43 | Legorol | no Blizzard functions call your function |
| 00:23.50 | Iriel | In my exaple they do |
| 00:23.58 | Iriel | Notice 'BlizzFunction' at the bottom |
| 00:24.20 | Iriel | Let me give a different example |
| 00:24.52 | Iriel | suppose we find, in one of the blizzard files, function BlizzardBob() BlizzardBun() ProtectedHamburger() end |
| 00:25.09 | Iriel | We could hook BlizzardBun, and run our own code before the protected hamburger |
| 00:25.14 | Iriel | A stack walk does NOT detect that |
| 00:25.20 | Iriel | a taint flag does |
| 00:26.19 | krka | sure it does |
| 00:26.29 | krka | if you mean this: |
| 00:26.36 | Iriel | How, when ProtectedHamburger() is called, the stack trace is just BlizzardBob |
| 00:26.46 | krka | function BlizzardBun() doMyStuff() orgBlizzardBun() end |
| 00:26.57 | zespri_work | not really. because if you do ProtectedHumburger = ProtectedMushedPotato in your hook and then the taint flag is eventually reset, you still get to call one proteced function instead og another |
| 00:26.58 | Iriel | No, BlizzardBun is NOT a protected function |
| 00:27.09 | krka | hmm.. now i see what you mean |
| 00:27.14 | Iriel | zespri : We can do that today already |
| 00:27.15 | krka | it's more like a stack-sibling |
| 00:27.24 | Iriel | zespri: But we can't do it WHEN the protected function gets called |
| 00:27.40 | Legorol | Iriel: i see what you mean too, but |
| 00:27.48 | Legorol | all that allows you to do is redirect ProtectedHamburger |
| 00:27.56 | Legorol | to potentially a different function, or to no function |
| 00:27.56 | Iriel | Legorol: Sure, or not call it |
| 00:28.21 | Legorol | and in fact it can do better |
| 00:28.26 | Legorol | it can do the whole movement thing |
| 00:28.34 | zespri_work | but it still can be done, can't it? because taint flag will get reset eventually |
| 00:28.35 | Legorol | i mean auto-buff on movement etc. |
| 00:28.37 | Iriel | Depending on the context, there could be arguments involved |
| 00:28.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 00:28.58 | Legorol | so whilst Iriel's suggestion is a good one for testing how the guarding works, unfortunately we can't really do it in practice |
| 00:29.09 | Legorol | because i couldn't see any blizzfunctions that call a protected function |
| 00:29.15 | Legorol | all protected function calls are in Bindings.xml |
| 00:29.17 | Legorol | untouchable |
| 00:29.18 | Iriel | Well, we know the guarding is a taint flag, so it doesn't work that way |
| 00:29.22 | Legorol | we do? |
| 00:29.26 | Legorol | how do we know? |
| 00:29.44 | Iriel | a little bird told us? |
| 00:29.48 | Legorol | right |
| 00:30.03 | Legorol | and what does the tainting taint? the entire execution path? |
| 00:30.06 | Legorol | until you return to C code? |
| 00:30.12 | Iriel | I would imagine so |
| 00:30.20 | Legorol | (i'm sure this has been asked/discussed already but i missed it) |
| 00:30.29 | zespri_work | Iriel, you are arguing that taint flag will prevent substituting a protected functuintion with another one or no function at all. I can't understand how this works because the flag will get reset eventually and the substitusion will still be in place. How do you mean? |
| 00:30.37 | Legorol | and do you know anything about what the tainting is based on? |
| 00:31.06 | Iriel | zespri: I'm arguing a taint flag protects against anything 'untrusted' executed in the execution path, rather than direct parents |
| 00:31.26 | Legorol | Iriel's point is, i think, that although the taint flag does get reset, you re-taint it next time |
| 00:31.28 | Iriel | Legorol: No idea, but I'm assuming it's based on whether functions were loaded from signed addons or not |
| 00:31.35 | Legorol | ok |
| 00:31.41 | Legorol | and you don't know if it's prototypes or closures? |
| 00:31.59 | Iriel | I dont know, it probably doesn't matter given the current blizzard, code.. I'd guess it was closures though |
| 00:32.01 | Legorol | is there any way at all to test that? i don't think there is.. |
| 00:32.09 | Legorol | but there might be |
| 00:32.11 | Legorol | can't think of any |
| 00:32.21 | Legorol | Iriel, zespri does have a point though |
| 00:32.22 | Iriel | There is if we can find a blizzard function that returns a closure at runtime |
| 00:32.23 | Legorol | imagine this: |
| 00:32.41 | Iriel | We can currently make functions call things they're not supposed to, in orders they wouldn't normally call them in |
| 00:32.42 | Iriel | yes |
| 00:32.51 | Legorol | function Blizzfunction() SomeOtherBlizzfun() ProtectedHamburger() end |
| 00:33.00 | Legorol | now imagine you redirect SomeOtherBlizzfun to your own function |
| 00:33.02 | Iriel | As long as we can find bits of blessed code that we can subvert |
| 00:33.05 | Iriel | That doesn't work |
| 00:33.20 | Iriel | Because SomeOtherBlizzfun sets the taint flag whenever it's called (as your function) |
| 00:33.22 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:33.25 | Legorol | i understand that |
| 00:33.38 | Legorol | however, and here is what zespri is saying i think |
| 00:33.46 | Legorol | you can reset the SomeOtherBlizzfun |
| 00:33.50 | Legorol | and on next execution, it won't be tainted |
| 00:34.00 | Legorol | actually that's pointless isn't it :-) |
| 00:34.03 | Iriel | Yeah |
| 00:34.05 | zespri_work | yes, that's what I'm trying to say |
| 00:34.13 | Iriel | But it's not exactly helpful 8-) |
| 00:34.15 | Legorol | it's pointless because |
| 00:34.24 | Legorol | you might as well just directly and permanently redirect ProtectedHamburger |
| 00:34.27 | Legorol | it's no different.. |
| 00:34.33 | Legorol | hmmm speaking of which... |
| 00:34.47 | Legorol | i'm going to try this, if i can redirect MoveForwardStart to TurnLeftStart :D |
| 00:34.52 | Legorol | because you could do this from OnUpdate :D |
| 00:34.55 | Legorol | let me check. |
| 00:35.11 | Iriel | Legorol: I know of no reason why you couldn't |
| 00:35.20 | Iriel | Legorol: You can just rebind the damn key from OnUpdate if you want to |
| 00:35.39 | Legorol | aha |
| 00:35.41 | Legorol | good point |
| 00:35.41 | Iriel | Legorol: I suspect key binding will require a hardware event of some sort by 1.11 |
| 00:35.49 | Legorol | well, it does work.. |
| 00:35.54 | Legorol | MoveForwardStart = TurnLeftStart |
| 00:35.58 | Iriel | Legorol: because you can still do OnUpdate based rebinding to auto buff now |
| 00:35.59 | Legorol | no block |
| 00:36.02 | Legorol | yup |
| 00:36.06 | Legorol | that's what i was starting to think |
| 00:36.11 | Legorol | i take it you guys thought of it already :D |
| 00:36.24 | Legorol | actually, how would it work? |
| 00:36.25 | krka | so a key-masher can still keep AT alive |
| 00:36.38 | Legorol | movement-based auto-buffing wouldn't really work though |
| 00:36.41 | Legorol | those addons are out |
| 00:36.52 | Cairenn | CT_CCGlobalFrame:OnUpdate would be which CT mod? |
| 00:36.57 | krka | never cared about those :P |
| 00:37.14 | Legorol | Iriel, how would you auto buff by rebinding OnUpdate? |
| 00:37.24 | Legorol | you would still need two key presses |
| 00:37.33 | AnduinLothar | why not leg? can't bind MoveForwardStart to CastSpell? |
| 00:37.38 | Legorol | and the user will get terribly confused when they press forward say and nothing happens |
| 00:37.41 | Iriel | so, the auto-buff crowd wont care |
| 00:37.44 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, you probably could, but two problems |
| 00:37.48 | Legorol | the user is getting confused |
| 00:37.50 | zespri_work | Ok Iriel, no I think I see your point too. Now tell me is it crusial that such kind of hooks is cought and not allowed to execute? |
| 00:37.54 | Legorol | and how do you pass the arguments to CastSpell? |
| 00:38.03 | Iriel | CastSPell isn't unhookable |
| 00:38.09 | Iriel | you can call CastSpell from any hardware event |
| 00:38.35 | Iriel | It'd be IRRITATING auto-buff, but it's still be Auto-buff |
| 00:38.43 | Iriel | it wouldn't require them to press any keys they didn't already press |
| 00:38.51 | Iriel | which is a big hurdle for the other approaches |
| 00:41.50 | Legorol | true |
| 00:42.06 | Legorol | but it'd be like: i'm running forward, let go of UP, and i still keep running but i buffed myself |
| 00:42.16 | krka | ok, now please stop talking so i can sleep without fear of missing out :) |
| 00:42.16 | Legorol | btw, something very funny about RunBinding |
| 00:42.29 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 00:42.34 | Legorol | it doesn't pop up a static dialog like other naughty calls |
| 00:42.42 | Legorol | instead it pops up a standard red message box |
| 00:42.47 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 00:42.58 | Kirov | hmm |
| 00:43.13 | Kirov | what about keyminder? |
| 00:43.41 | Kirov | won't this patch just have people migrate to that? |
| 00:43.58 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: but not always.. weird |
| 00:44.42 | Kirov | People using it to continue to use the ol' auto-travel mods will be pissed off since those will be broken, but people might start migrating over to using it for mana concervation mods. |
| 00:45.13 | Legorol | actually, AT mods work just fine |
| 00:45.17 | Legorol | with a keymasher |
| 00:45.40 | Cairenn | YAY, the "this addon has been blocked" is gone |
| 00:45.59 | Kirov | heh |
| 00:46.07 | Kirov | Did they fix the fun hunter bug? |
| 00:46.13 | Kirov | Where every addon was blocked? |
| 00:46.16 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 00:46.17 | Cairenn | with stings? yeah, gone |
| 00:46.26 | Cairenn | that's what I was referring to |
| 00:46.30 | Kirov | glee |
| 00:46.53 | Cairenn | and with tradeskill queue |
| 00:46.54 | AnduinLothar | fixed it on createall professions too |
| 00:47.02 | Kirov | I can finally go test my mods now. When I got to the point where it was saying "MCP is being blocked" I figured there had to be an issue. |
| 00:47.09 | Cairenn | the only one left for me to check is click to move to and then interact with |
| 00:47.13 | AnduinLothar | ya, so the trade skill queue addons work again |
| 00:47.34 | AnduinLothar | that's fixes too |
| 00:47.43 | AnduinLothar | I double checked them all last night |
| 00:47.54 | Cairenn | figured probably, Slouken was pretty sure it was all the same bug |
| 00:48.01 | AnduinLothar | it was |
| 00:48.12 | Legorol | oh right it wasn't RunBinding, it's RegisterForSave |
| 00:48.14 | Legorol | it's weird |
| 00:48.22 | Cairenn | and fyi, there's no queue to log in to test atm |
| 00:48.30 | AnduinLothar | RegisterForSave now causes a lua error |
| 00:48.42 | Legorol | yeah |
| 00:49.00 | Legorol | Error: [string "RegisterForSave("muhaha")"]:1: RegisterForSave() is only available to Blizzard scripts |
| 00:49.13 | Legorol | yay for more and varied bizarre error messages |
| 00:49.16 | Legorol | don't you just love it? |
| 00:49.28 | Legorol | instead of adding RegForSave to the list of blocked functions... they did something "special" with it, it'd seem |
| 00:49.29 | AnduinLothar | better than a dissable now |
| 00:49.47 | Iriel | Oh, I had an evil thought |
| 00:50.03 | Cairenn | uh oh |
| 00:50.11 | zespri_work | bring it on, Iriel! |
| 00:50.52 | Iriel | script = PlayerFrame:GetScript("OnUpdate") X = { PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave; arg1="muhahah" } setfenv(script, "X") |
| 00:50.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov_ (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:51.56 | Iriel | Can someone test that? |
| 00:51.58 | AnduinLothar | ... |
| 00:52.01 | Iriel | He may have blocked it already |
| 00:52.07 | Kirov_ | test what? |
| 00:52.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 00:52.47 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:53.04 | Iriel | Ack |
| 00:53.16 | Iriel | This: /script script = PlayerFrame:GetScript("OnUpdate") X = { PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave; arg1="muhahah" } setfenv(script, "X") |
| 00:53.55 | Kirov_ | wow, that looks evil |
| 00:54.02 | cladhaire | =) |
| 00:54.02 | Cairenn | hang on |
| 00:54.04 | cladhaire | logging in now |
| 00:54.11 | cladhaire | unless cair's got it |
| 00:54.13 | Cairenn | typing out error message, 2 sec |
| 00:54.27 | Miravlix | Hmm, seems there is some issue with BG's and not getting all the events you would expect due to it ending. Fx. you never get told you leave combat |
| 00:54.31 | AnduinLothar | cair... IEF... copy/paste errors |
| 00:54.41 | Tain | Or BugSack! |
| 00:55.25 | Cairenn | PlayerFrame:GetScript("OnUpdate") X - { PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave:1: unexpected symbol near `=' |
| 00:55.26 | Kirov_ | Miravlix - it's times like that I'm glad I'm a hunter. ;) |
| 00:55.39 | Iriel | Should be X= not X - |
| 00:55.58 | Miravlix | Naah should just be some bug in this addon |
| 00:56.01 | Iriel | Is that a typo in the script or the error? |
| 00:56.16 | Cairenn | that's the error I got, no typo on my part |
| 00:56.25 | Legorol | Iriel: blocked |
| 00:56.38 | Legorol | the correct line is: /script script = PlayerFrame:GetScript("OnUpdate"); X = { PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave; arg1="muhahah" } setfenv(script, X) |
| 00:56.47 | Cairenn | that's why :p |
| 00:56.52 | Iriel | Legorol: Is the setfenv blocked, or the RegisterForSave blocked? |
| 00:56.53 | Cairenn | I didn't have the second script |
| 00:56.57 | Legorol | regforsave blocked |
| 00:57.08 | Iriel | Hm. |
| 00:57.08 | Legorol | setfenv isn't |
| 00:57.13 | Legorol | which could mean some interesting stuff |
| 00:57.19 | Legorol | hmm nah it can't |
| 00:57.20 | Iriel | Maybe that's just a bad test case then |
| 00:57.26 | Legorol | hmm maybe |
| 00:57.29 | Natasem | please sign http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-suggestions&t=743856 |
| 00:57.45 | Iriel | Legorol: Change OnUpdate to OnClick and retry? |
| 00:57.51 | Iriel | Legorol: And then click on the player frame? |
| 00:57.57 | Miravlix | I'm glad I'm EU and we don't allow dumb sign threads. :) |
| 00:58.06 | Iriel | neither do US |
| 00:58.25 | Legorol | hm, i am very surprised it's blocking it... |
| 00:58.32 | Legorol | Iriel, lemme try something else first |
| 00:58.40 | Legorol | PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave |
| 00:59.06 | Legorol | that's allowed... |
| 00:59.12 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 00:59.13 | Legorol | hm, how is it detecting the environment change? |
| 00:59.29 | Iriel | Are you running that AFTER the setfenv? |
| 00:59.32 | Iriel | or did you reloadui? |
| 00:59.40 | Legorol | i did a reloadui |
| 00:59.45 | Legorol | and a plain PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = RegisterForSave |
| 00:59.46 | Legorol | no error |
| 00:59.57 | Iriel | That's actually quite odd |
| 00:59.58 | Cairenn | hrm, now this is interesting ... |
| 01:00.06 | Legorol | but the setfenv causes error |
| 01:00.11 | Legorol | now it could be due to arg1... |
| 01:00.48 | Iriel | I suspect you're heading for an out of memory now, as the client builds an ever-growing list of saveable variables |
| 01:01.07 | Legorol | you know what? |
| 01:01.13 | Iriel | Unless RFS ignores non-string args |
| 01:01.14 | Legorol | this works: /script script = PlayerFrame:GetScript("OnUpdate"); X = { PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = MoveForwardStart } setfenv(script, X) |
| 01:01.24 | Legorol | i have started running forward without stopping |
| 01:01.33 | Natasem | it's not a dumb sign thread |
| 01:01.33 | Iriel | You can manipulate X on the fly too |
| 01:01.37 | Iriel | handy really |
| 01:01.39 | Legorol | possibly |
| 01:01.44 | Legorol | omg! |
| 01:01.46 | Legorol | let me try that.. |
| 01:01.50 | Iriel | (Dont worry, I already sent this one off to the piratemeister) |
| 01:01.54 | Legorol | scary |
| 01:01.55 | Natasem | it's a omg blue please make an ignore feature in the forums as well thread in the suggestion forums |
| 01:02.02 | Legorol | oh yo uhave? |
| 01:02.43 | Legorol | zomg, Iriel, this is a serious one |
| 01:02.55 | Legorol | this allows complete auto-casting without UI freeze |
| 01:03.07 | Legorol | no? |
| 01:03.25 | Legorol | hmm |
| 01:03.28 | Iriel | possibly, yes |
| 01:03.31 | Iriel | Well, no |
| 01:03.33 | End | I am back. |
| 01:03.36 | Iriel | it's not a hardware event |
| 01:03.38 | Legorol | true |
| 01:03.40 | End | And better than ever! |
| 01:03.48 | Legorol | yeah cause they removed the hardware event restriction from moveforward |
| 01:03.54 | Legorol | at least this settles that question |
| 01:04.07 | Legorol | Bela and i wanted a way to decide if MoveX still needs hardware event or not |
| 01:04.12 | Iriel | Now you know 8-) |
| 01:04.15 | Legorol | yup |
| 01:04.22 | Legorol | i'm puzzled by Regforsave though.. |
| 01:04.40 | Iriel | It may be using a more restrictive limit, who knows |
| 01:04.48 | Iriel | are there any RFS's left in the standard UI? |
| 01:04.54 | Legorol | RFS? |
| 01:04.56 | Legorol | yeah loads |
| 01:05.10 | Legorol | it's being used for config options |
| 01:05.54 | Legorol | Iriel, question: |
| 01:06.00 | Legorol | when you do the setfenv, it does set arg1 |
| 01:06.01 | Legorol | but |
| 01:06.11 | Legorol | arg1 gets overwritten when the actual handler is called? |
| 01:06.15 | Legorol | actually... |
| 01:06.26 | Legorol | *which* arg1 gets set when the C engine calls an event handler? |
| 01:06.26 | Iriel | The standard global environment's arg1 gets set |
| 01:06.32 | Legorol | yeah that's what i thought |
| 01:06.44 | Iriel | setfenv just stops it from using that |
| 01:06.49 | Legorol | yeah makes sense |
| 01:07.00 | Iriel | There are still other possible issues here |
| 01:07.02 | Legorol | so maybe this is related to RegForSave being blocked? |
| 01:07.10 | Iriel | as we know, you can change arg1 in the middle of a set of dispatches |
| 01:07.19 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:07.36 | Legorol | why would that be an issue? |
| 01:07.41 | Iriel | Consider an OnEvent |
| 01:08.05 | Iriel | sandwich it between two of your own frame's handlers in the dispatch queue (Assuming queue order is register order) |
| 01:08.22 | Iriel | in the first one, mess with a bunch of symbols, in the last one, put them back |
| 01:08.27 | Legorol | right |
| 01:08.45 | Iriel | you can get blizzard's frames to call arbitrary code with arbitrary args, more or less |
| 01:08.51 | Legorol | hmm |
| 01:09.03 | Legorol | not exactly |
| 01:09.15 | Legorol | because you would need a piece of Blizz code that calls the blocked function you want to call |
| 01:09.21 | Legorol | oh wait |
| 01:09.24 | Iriel | Why? |
| 01:09.28 | Iriel | You just do what we just did |
| 01:09.32 | Iriel | but use the real global environment |
| 01:09.32 | Legorol | yeah you are right |
| 01:10.00 | Legorol | so you are saying: pick a "BlizzFunction() someOtherBlizzFun(a, b, c) end" that lives in a blizz OnEvent handler |
| 01:10.10 | Legorol | redirect someOtherBlizzFun using setfenv |
| 01:10.14 | Legorol | set a, b and c too |
| 01:10.16 | Iriel | without the 'redirect' |
| 01:10.19 | Iriel | but yes |
| 01:10.30 | Iriel | well, with the redirect, but using standard global variables |
| 01:10.38 | Legorol | ah right |
| 01:10.40 | Iriel | not setfenv (Since i'm sure that'll be getting fixed real soon now) |
| 01:10.44 | Legorol | but |
| 01:10.47 | Legorol | if you are not using setfenv, |
| 01:10.54 | Legorol | how will you change the arguments a, b and c? |
| 01:11.03 | Iriel | arg1="A" arg2="B" arg3="C" |
| 01:11.14 | Legorol | right |
| 01:11.15 | Iriel | They're only set by the client before the FIRST event is dispatched |
| 01:11.18 | Legorol | true |
| 01:11.20 | Legorol | actually |
| 01:11.24 | Legorol | omg |
| 01:11.29 | Iriel | If there's a dozen handlers, they all get the same one |
| 01:11.30 | Legorol | you just need to find an event that fires *often* |
| 01:11.36 | Legorol | and you hijack every second one |
| 01:11.41 | Legorol | and run protected blizz functions |
| 01:11.43 | Iriel | Sure, that'd work. |
| 01:11.48 | Legorol | protected blizz functions don't even need arguments |
| 01:11.48 | Iriel | You sitll have the hardware event problem |
| 01:11.50 | Legorol | you can do autorun |
| 01:11.58 | Iriel | but movement is a non-issue again |
| 01:12.00 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:12.02 | Legorol | this is bad :( |
| 01:12.04 | Iriel | Well, you can use OnUpdate for autorun |
| 01:12.10 | Iriel | Yes, as I said, setfenv will be fixed soon |
| 01:12.13 | Iriel | I'm sure |
| 01:12.16 | Legorol | but even without setfenv.. |
| 01:12.18 | End | less things are protected by hardware events now, right? |
| 01:12.20 | Iriel | (The pirate is aware) |
| 01:12.30 | Iriel | The other problem I'm going to make him aware of |
| 01:12.39 | Legorol | Iriel, bigger problem: |
| 01:12.48 | Legorol | PlayerFrame_OnUpdate = MoveForwardStart |
| 01:12.50 | Legorol | voila |
| 01:13.31 | Legorol | is this what you will tell him? |
| 01:13.31 | Legorol | this does work, i just tried |
| 01:13.34 | Legorol | this is going to be very serious |
| 01:13.47 | Legorol | they will have to make *every* blizz Lua fun non-redirectable |
| 01:13.57 | Legorol | or at least not redirectable to protected functions |
| 01:14.04 | Kirov_ | Couldnt you use SetScript() on a random frame that doens't have an onupdate to get the same effect? |
| 01:14.14 | Legorol | quite possible |
| 01:14.23 | Legorol | which is even better |
| 01:14.31 | Legorol | since you then don't mess with PlayerFrame |
| 01:14.36 | Legorol | oh no you can't |
| 01:14.39 | Legorol | Kirov, that wouldn't work |
| 01:14.48 | Legorol | because SetScript needs a function, and you would be supplying your own function |
| 01:14.51 | Legorol | which wouldn't be "blessed" |
| 01:15.20 | Legorol | i am still puzzled about why setfenv doesn't work with RegForSave, i'm going to have to play around with this |
| 01:15.44 | Kirov_ | PlayerFrame: SetScript("OnUpdate", MoveForwardStart) |
| 01:16.14 | Legorol | works like a charm |
| 01:16.43 | Kirov_ | So you wouldn't need your own function since it can all be controlled there. |
| 01:17.48 | Qzot|atwork | If you want to control it programmatically, won't you need something else to trigger the code you use to set and unset the script? |
| 01:17.52 | Legorol | yes i just tried it Kirov |
| 01:18.10 | Legorol | Iriel, if you happen to be around and if you are going to write to the pirate: |
| 01:18.28 | Legorol | i better PM this |
| 01:18.44 | Kirov_ | The SetScript method can be fixed fairly easily though by protecting frames owned by blizzard |
| 01:19.09 | Kirov_ | Would make injecting stuff in to tooltips a bit more of a pain though |
| 01:19.52 | End | just one problem though...remember why SetScript was added right? |
| 01:20.11 | End | so you could -hook- the scripts on blizzard frames! |
| 01:20.12 | Kirov_ | To prevent the need for editing FrameXML |
| 01:20.18 | End | without overwriting FrameXML |
| 01:20.19 | End | exactly |
| 01:20.29 | End | a bit of a problem |
| 01:20.41 | Iriel | Another fix would be to give all protected functions required (but unused) arguments |
| 01:20.53 | End | anyways, I'm gonna go eat now |
| 01:21.06 | Kirov_ | why would that fix it? |
| 01:21.22 | Iriel | Kirov_: Because script handlers are called with no arguments |
| 01:21.38 | Miravlix | Can hunter pets be in combat while there master isn't? |
| 01:22.07 | Kirov_ | how are SetScript("OnUpdate", function() foobar(foo) end) handled? |
| 01:22.38 | Kirov_ | Are those just owned by the script that it's writen in? |
| 01:23.41 | Legorol | Kirov: that won't work |
| 01:23.49 | Legorol | yeah they are owned by the addon |
| 01:24.05 | Legorol | remember, each function statement creates a function closures, which gets labelled as blizzard one or 3rd party one |
| 01:25.37 | Kirov_ | brb |
| 01:26.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 01:36.00 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:36.19 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:36.41 | Kirov | I spent all day swapping hardware on my desk. |
| 01:36.58 | Kirov | Then testing another project because I've nothing else to do. |
| 01:37.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 01:37.44 | Kirov | 23 minutes and I can go home. |
| 01:38.53 | End-food | I'm already home >:PP |
| 01:39.37 | End | but yes, today was definately interesting in WoW interface land |
| 01:39.57 | Tain | Yes it was! Why what happened? Been playing D&D Online. |
| 01:40.03 | End | welll |
| 01:40.18 | End | on test I'm eternally running in a straight line (until I reload ui) |
| 01:40.25 | Kirov | Tain - We found out how to make autotravel bots work again. |
| 01:40.35 | End | because I made PlayerFrame's OnUpdate function call MoveForwardStart |
| 01:40.37 | Kirov | well, Iriel did |
| 01:40.44 | Tain | That's pretty darned funny. |
| 01:41.39 | Iriel | Tain: What DDO server do you play on? |
| 01:42.00 | AnduinLothar | mmm a prime number generator in haskell... yummy |
| 01:42.39 | End | hm |
| 01:42.53 | End | my pre-made rogue on test has a flask of supreme power for some strange reason |
| 01:43.01 | AnduinLothar | they all do |
| 01:43.08 | End | that doesn't make much sense |
| 01:43.13 | Kirov | I think it's needed for the quest? |
| 01:43.19 | End | oh |
| 01:43.23 | End | than it does make sense |
| 01:43.24 | Kirov | At least, that's the only reason I could think of it being needed |
| 01:43.27 | AnduinLothar | unless you have a firey enchant :) |
| 01:43.29 | Tain | Iriel: Adar, playing (when possible) with my brother who's in Alaska. I'm on the East coast of US so it's pretty funny when we do end up both online at some ungodly hour for one of us. |
| 01:43.30 | Kirov | Haven't actually checked |
| 01:43.31 | End | er. then |
| 01:43.48 | Iriel | Tain: Ah, sadly not the one i've been playing on |
| 01:44.03 | Iriel | Tain: Which is Kyber (aka "The one that usually crashes first") |
| 01:44.12 | Tain | heh heh! |
| 01:44.25 | Iriel | Or is it Khyber, I dont recall how to spell it, I just click |
| 01:44.51 | Kirov | sounds like Gorgacrash |
| 01:45.01 | Tain | Yeah I had to actually look to see what server I was even on, I didnt' remember at all. |
| 01:46.03 | Kirov | I swear the Gorgonnash server was left under the sink in the janitor's closet for the first year of wow. |
| 01:48.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust103.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:48.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge artyom (i=sirlasal@IGLD-80-230-67-120.inter.net.il) |
| 01:49.24 | End | wow, it's a lot easier than it looks to make AutoTravel work on the current Test server |
| 01:49.57 | End | well, than it looked to me |
| 01:49.59 | Kirov | The removal of the hardware even requirement is really the only thing allowing all this. |
| 01:50.04 | End | yes |
| 01:50.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:51.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge artyom (i=sirlasal@IGLD-80-230-67-120.inter.net.il) |
| 01:51.30 | Iriel | These 'Dynamic frames are useless without delete' posts are really irritating me |
| 01:52.13 | Iriel | I should come up with a L2MR (Learn 2 Manage Resources) response |
| 01:53.25 | Tain | That was the first thing that people said when they were announced, and I didn't understand it then. |
| 01:53.28 | End | hmm |
| 01:53.50 | Tain | Sure I understand why people would like them, but you don't get to delete, so you work with that understanding. |
| 01:54.16 | End | for my amusement, I made it so switching between tabs on the social pane, make me, for friends, turn left, for who stop left, for guild turn right, and for raid stop right |
| 01:54.36 | End | or I got that slightly backwards |
| 01:54.39 | End | but you get the idea |
| 01:54.39 | Djanee | *bangs head on monitor* Anyone around that can help me figure out an issue reading info in a table (saved variable)? |
| 01:55.57 | Tain | What is the issue? |
| 01:56.19 | Legorol | *sigh* just managed to make a replacement for RunBinding :( it's very easy to do |
| 01:56.46 | Legorol | don't even need to use OnUpdate |
| 01:56.50 | End | (obviously I could then automatically show which pane I wanted to do. of course, simpler is just change the OnUpdate to change what I'd do) |
| 01:57.06 | End | so which way is that? |
| 01:57.23 | Tain | Happy Pi day! |
| 01:57.32 | Legorol | thanks Tain... |
| 01:57.39 | AnduinLothar | i could use some pie |
| 01:57.46 | AnduinLothar | or food of any kind really.. |
| 01:57.56 | Legorol | is today the 3.1415926535897932384626433th of the month? |
| 01:57.57 | End | wait, it's -Pi- day? I thought it was pie day! |
| 01:58.25 | End | so it is |
| 01:59.02 | Djanee | I'm trying to extract some info out of TitanHonorPlus, it saves the number of kills vs a PVP opponent in a table called log |
| 01:59.55 | Tain | TitanHonorPlus is a vile piece of... err... I am not a fan of the coding behind TitanHonorPlus. |
| 02:00.13 | End | I don't like TitanHonorPlus either >_< |
| 02:00.18 | Djanee | I'm just learning about how to read data in a table, but from looking at the saved variable file, looks like there's a table for each player name in there. So inside Log would be an entry for Djanee |
| 02:00.25 | End | I always edit the toc to use normal TitanHonor instead |
| 02:00.34 | End | in the latest versions of TitanMod |
| 02:01.23 | Djanee | haha sadly I agree, but I haven't found a non-bloat mods that tracks number of times that I've killed a player today |
| 02:02.15 | Djanee | so I'm kinda workin with what I've found. Concept is the same no matter what mod to really |
| 02:02.27 | Djanee | it's basically a table inside a table |
| 02:02.49 | Iriel | So what's the issue you're having with the table-in-a-table ? |
| 02:03.17 | Djanee | I just don't know how to access the data to validate what I want |
| 02:03.31 | End | log["Djanee"].myblahkillsblahblah? |
| 02:03.35 | End | or |
| 02:03.37 | Iriel | log["Djanee"].whatever |
| 02:03.42 | End | even log.Djanee.blshfhf |
| 02:03.54 | End | although, [] is better since you'll want to use a variable |
| 02:04.03 | Djanee | Inside log if there is a Djanee, I need to access kills a value in the table Djanee. I can do that |
| 02:04.31 | Iriel | local myLog = log["Djanee"]; |
| 02:04.39 | Djanee | but I don't know how to test to see if the table Djanee actually exists inside the log table |
| 02:04.49 | Iriel | if (myLog) then ... myLog.kills ... end |
| 02:05.00 | Iriel | put your own code where the ...'s are |
| 02:05.11 | Iriel | If you're truly paranoid |
| 02:05.19 | Iriel | if (type(myLog) == "table") then |
| 02:05.23 | Iriel | Instead of just if (myLog) then |
| 02:06.09 | Djanee | kk lemme give it a try, I was tryin to do something like if log.Djanee then log.Djanee.kills but wasn't working |
| 02:07.21 | Miravlix | Is is a known bug that pets stay in combat until they are fully healed and at full energy? |
| 02:08.25 | Iriel | Miravlix : I'd say "no" |
| 02:08.34 | End | that's a strange bug |
| 02:08.40 | Iriel | Miravlix : What definition of 'in combat' are you using? |
| 02:08.47 | Miravlix | If I heal my pet I enter combat |
| 02:08.54 | Iriel | Yes |
| 02:09.01 | Iriel | You casting a heal spell puts you in combat |
| 02:09.10 | Miravlix | Happends after every fight, but it wasn't until I updated MonitorStatus to check in combat status of the pet |
| 02:09.22 | Miravlix | I noticed it is in combat until it's at full health and energy |
| 02:09.31 | Iriel | But using what definition of 'In combat' |
| 02:09.34 | Iriel | there are several |
| 02:09.57 | Miravlix | UnitAffectingCombat("pet") returns 1 is my definition |
| 02:10.08 | Iriel | Hm, that would be that it has aggro |
| 02:10.13 | Iriel | or is in combat |
| 02:10.16 | Miravlix | And if you heal the pet the combat flag gets turned on for self |
| 02:10.22 | Miravlix | No |
| 02:10.26 | Miravlix | This is after a fight |
| 02:10.33 | Miravlix | mob is dead I lost personal combat flag |
| 02:10.45 | Miravlix | Pet is either regaining health or mana |
| 02:10.51 | Iriel | That is rather strange, I doubt it affects anything |
| 02:10.54 | Miravlix | s/mana/energy/ |
| 02:11.00 | Miravlix | It is effecting everything |
| 02:11.07 | Iriel | Can you feed it still? |
| 02:11.18 | Iriel | Because if you can't then something new is going on |
| 02:11.26 | Miravlix | That is dependent on my in combat status? |
| 02:11.48 | Iriel | Pets stop gaining happiness when they enter combat |
| 02:11.53 | Miravlix | yes thats player controled in combat flag |
| 02:11.59 | Miravlix | whatever you can feed pet, not pets status |
| 02:12.01 | Iriel | (But not when they have aggro) |
| 02:12.09 | Iriel | I'm not saying whether you can feed it |
| 02:12.16 | Iriel | as much as whether it gains happiness |
| 02:12.16 | Iriel | sorry |
| 02:12.19 | Miravlix | No they stop gaining happyness when we are in combat |
| 02:12.22 | Miravlix | It's very funky |
| 02:12.39 | Iriel | so does it gain happiness in this post-kill-but-not-healed state? |
| 02:12.50 | Miravlix | Yes |
| 02:12.58 | Iriel | So it thinks it has aggro, interesting |
| 02:12.59 | Miravlix | Because it all depends on player combat status |
| 02:13.27 | Miravlix | Also if you mark a mob it will get in combat flag. |
| 02:14.11 | Iriel | 'it' being the mob, or you? |
| 02:14.14 | Miravlix | Oh wait thats wrong |
| 02:14.28 | Miravlix | It's when I sick my pet on it it gains in combat before it makes contact |
| 02:14.42 | Miravlix | But pet doesn't enter combat until first hit |
| 02:15.12 | Miravlix | Pets is pretty funky to me, atleast hunters, I wonder how Warlocks work |
| 02:15.57 | Miravlix | If players work the same as mob, sicking your pet on a player = killing charge and other out of combat stuff. |
| 02:16.22 | Miravlix | Even while the pet isn't in contact with the player like it normaly triggers |
| 02:16.48 | Iriel | Your pet inherits some of your 'affecting combat' flag, IIRC |
| 02:16.55 | Iriel | It's been a while since i really paid attention to it |
| 02:17.07 | Miravlix | Pet entering combat makes me gain combat flag |
| 02:17.13 | Miravlix | Pet doesn't gain my combat flag |
| 02:17.30 | Miravlix | It's perfectly possible to go in combat and keep pet out |
| 02:17.31 | Iriel | That might be what I was thinking of 8-) |
| 02:17.33 | Qzot|atwork | Catch you all later. |
| 02:17.39 | Cairenn | later Qzot|atwork |
| 02:17.53 | Iriel | But there's a difference between real "in Combat" and "UnitAffectingCombat" |
| 02:18.10 | Iriel | the first implies the second, but not vice versa |
| 02:18.16 | Miravlix | I don't see wherethe difference is so far? |
| 02:18.45 | Iriel | If something aggroes you, you'll gain UnitAffectingCombat, but you dont get full blown in combat until it hits you |
| 02:18.47 | Miravlix | Aren't you confusing being in melee attack state with in combat |
| 02:18.52 | Iriel | maybe I am |
| 02:19.10 | Kirov | "on hate list" = UnitAffectingCombat |
| 02:19.33 | Kirov | syncs with the PLAYER_REGEN_ events |
| 02:19.34 | Miravlix | Now that is perhaps the true definition |
| 02:19.50 | Miravlix | So casting mark puts me on the hate list |
| 02:19.53 | Iriel | Well, it's On Hate List or 'cooling down from some forced in combat event' |
| 02:20.32 | Kirov | Which is on the hate list |
| 02:20.44 | Kirov | If you're forced in to combat, the mob can aggro on you |
| 02:20.56 | Kirov | (if it's a random charge type mob) |
| 02:21.15 | Iriel | Warriors can stand in the middle of an empty field, and get UnitAffectingCombat to go to true |
| 02:21.20 | Iriel | a mob, or hate list, is not required |
| 02:21.44 | Kirov | Just by using an ability? |
| 02:22.07 | Miravlix | Hmm, there is more to it than just being out of health and energy |
| 02:22.11 | Miravlix | Something to do with dash |
| 02:22.28 | Miravlix | Dash keeps the pet in combat |
| 02:22.44 | Miravlix | Until it's at full health/energy |
| 02:22.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.33.248) |
| 02:23.03 | Iriel | Kirov: Yes, i dont recall which, one of those rage generating ones I think |
| 02:23.05 | Kirov | but it shouldn't be regening health if it's in combat |
| 02:23.17 | Kirov | Blood-something, I'm guessing |
| 02:23.23 | Kirov | We use that for zero agro pulls |
| 02:23.59 | Iriel | I dont play a warrior much so dont know, I just group with one who does it all the time |
| 02:24.10 | Kirov | Oh, which reminds me ... need to test if Blessing of Wisdom causes aggro still. |
| 02:24.11 | Iriel | AndI have an addon that reports on changes in UnitAffectingCombat state |
| 02:24.13 | Miravlix | It only gets the extended in combat when it charges a mob without using any abilities |
| 02:24.33 | Miravlix | I just updated MonitorStatus to show it |
| 02:24.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust103.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:24.46 | Miravlix | But I haven't pushed it to Cosmos Alpha yet |
| 02:25.29 | Miravlix | And it's only energy it seems that has to go back to full after the pet attacks |
| 02:25.57 | Kirov | Is the health regening at all before that? |
| 02:26.07 | Miravlix | Because it can't gain health while in combat, I'm on a 39 hunter hitting level 6 stuff bit hard to tell |
| 02:26.35 | Kirov | heh |
| 02:26.39 | Miravlix | Wasn't planning on finding this side effect |
| 02:26.59 | Kirov | I'll try to experiement with that sometime |
| 02:28.09 | Miravlix | Seem to be unrelated to pet skills and energy. it's only related to the pet being in combat speed mode? |
| 02:28.21 | ckknight | I think I found a bug in Blizzard's XML |
| 02:29.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.06 | ckknight | GameTooltipTemplate.xml, line 460. should be relativeTo="$parentTextLeft25", not "$parentTextLeft24" |
| 02:37.00 | Legorol | yup |
| 02:37.07 | Legorol | god, how many lines are you filling up ;-) |
| 02:37.15 | Legorol | probably a copy/paste error |
| 02:37.23 | Legorol | actually, if you have a look |
| 02:37.31 | Legorol | all subsequent ones are incorrect |
| 02:37.37 | ckknight | I know |
| 02:37.48 | ckknight | 25-30 are messed up |
| 02:37.53 | ckknight | but it still works in-game |
| 02:38.07 | Miravlix | Heh, Warlock pets has the same thing, pet stays in combat extended due to being in combat movement mode |
| 02:38.40 | Legorol | ckknight, actually, it's not messed up.. |
| 02:38.42 | Legorol | look at the points |
| 02:38.47 | Legorol | it's TOPLEFT/BOTTOMRIGHT |
| 02:38.59 | Legorol | ehm... nope |
| 02:39.02 | Legorol | d'oh |
| 02:39.03 | Legorol | nvm me |
| 02:39.08 | Miravlix | Must be a bug though, it doesn't effect it when it's charging to the target only when it's in combat it has trouble getting out |
| 02:39.28 | ckknight | yea... |
| 02:39.40 | ckknight | it's cause :Show() rearranges it anyway |
| 02:43.39 | Legorol | how odd |
| 02:43.52 | ckknight | oh well |
| 02:44.10 | ckknight | also, if you derive from GameTooltipTemplate and add more lines, it works |
| 02:44.11 | ckknight | shiny. |
| 03:20.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=Sam@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:21.05 | Miravlix | G'day Slouken |
| 03:21.25 | Cairenn | hey slouken |
| 03:21.34 | cladhaire | Evening Slouken |
| 03:22.27 | slouken | Hey all... |
| 03:22.50 | slouken | Have fun hacking the Lua script protection system. :) |
| 03:22.57 | slouken | Please report any exploits you find to Iriel |
| 03:23.07 | slouken | I already know about SetScript() |
| 03:23.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 03:23.22 | slouken | and it will be fixed... muahahahahah |
| 03:23.38 | slouken | er, I mean a fix is in progress. :) |
| 03:23.43 | cladhaire | =) |
| 03:23.52 | Tain | Entering to an evil slouken laugh is not the first thing you want to see. |
| 03:23.55 | cladhaire | Its a very interesting solution for the problem =) |
| 03:24.08 | slouken | thanks |
| 03:24.11 | ckknight | slouken, I found a bug. |
| 03:24.23 | cladhaire | lol |
| 03:24.25 | slouken | I'm off to baby wrangle and dinner! |
| 03:24.26 | slouken | *wave* |
| 03:24.32 | Tain | Have a good one slouken! |
| 03:24.36 | cladhaire | cknight: Post in the forums.. slouken on irc is fun time.. not work time =) |
| 03:24.42 | ckknight | okay |
| 03:24.48 | ckknight | I don't wanna. |
| 03:24.53 | ckknight | too low of an ROI |
| 03:27.26 | End | oh, that's good to hear it is fixed |
| 03:27.52 | End | or soon to be fixed |
| 03:30.56 | Miravlix | Server down notice. Noooh I'm not done codeing and testing |
| 03:31.38 | Tain | It's more important to be done coding. Testing isn't *that* important. |
| 03:31.48 | End | hah |
| 03:31.58 | End | Testing is what makes it interesting |
| 03:32.25 | Tain | Ah testing is what makes you realize you make more mistakes than you think you do. :) |
| 03:33.05 | End | well, I don't have any illusions on how many mistakes I make. :P well, sometimes I get surprised when it works without any effort |
| 03:33.13 | End | but I expect mistakes |
| 03:34.15 | Tain | When things work right the first time that's when I get nervous. |
| 03:34.31 | End | yeah, me too |
| 03:34.34 | End | it isn't normal |
| 03:34.39 | Miravlix | My code always work right the first time. |
| 03:34.42 | Tain | Something just ain't right. |
| 03:36.11 | Miravlix | But it frequently happens that I have to change the code to make it work right a different way. |
| 03:56.27 | Miravlix | MonitorStatus updated with new lean and mean In Combat detection. It gives users advanced warning if anyone in it's list is in combat. This way enabling player to react earlier without actually seeing what happends. |
| 03:57.18 | Miravlix | Argh I need to stop playing my gnome, I start being all funny talking. |
| 03:58.13 | MentalPower | gnight guys |
| 04:00.03 | Cairenn | night MentalPower |
| 04:00.06 | Cairenn | sweet dreams |
| 04:01.49 | MentalPower | thanks Cair |
| 04:04.56 | Miravlix | No usefull codeing for 6 hours, I think I'm going to be sick. |
| 04:09.27 | Ktron|afk | ~lart Miravlix |
| 04:19.57 | Miravlix | s/lart/fart/ |
| 04:20.17 | Miravlix | Aww, purl isn't smart enough for that. :p |
| 04:20.29 | ckknight | ~fart Miravlix |
| 04:20.30 | purl | ACTION farts in Miravlix's general direction |
| 04:20.53 | Ktron|afk | s/lart/fart/ |
| 04:21.03 | Ktron|afk | heh, it won't proc itself either |
| 04:49.44 | Crispix_ | It just occured to me.. |
| 04:50.06 | Crispix_ | Maz is putting all her effort into a UI that may be rendered completely useless by the next patch... |
| 04:50.35 | ckknight | hrm |
| 04:54.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:57.58 | Wobin_ | which one? |
| 04:58.20 | Cairenn | mazzle ui, beta forum |
| 05:01.44 | Iriel | Dammit, no test server 8-( |
| 05:02.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=hercules@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 05:03.09 | Iriel | Hey Slouken |
| 05:03.13 | Wobin_ | by 'rendered completely useless' do you mean that Maz will have to rewrite everything, or that it would be rendered obsolete? |
| 05:03.20 | Wobin_ | heyo Slou =) |
| 05:03.29 | Cairenn | wb slouken |
| 05:03.48 | slouken | heya. :) |
| 05:04.06 | Tain | You really shouldn't say things like that about slouken, he could show up here at any... oh. |
| 05:04.15 | slouken | lol |
| 05:04.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 05:04.46 | ckknight | Tain, I couldn't help myself, he was just too sextastic _not_ to say anything |
| 05:05.18 | slouken | lol |
| 05:05.25 | Legorol | hi slouken |
| 05:06.44 | Tain | Life is like a box of weirdos. |
| 05:06.50 | Legorol | <slouken> Have fun hacking the Lua script protection system. |
| 05:06.53 | Legorol | i like that invitation :D |
| 05:07.12 | slouken | You take one out and you go "ick!" and drop it quickly? |
| 05:07.43 | Legorol | rest assured we've been doing it all day already ;-) |
| 05:08.20 | Legorol | if you don't mind a personal question: how old is your baby? |
| 05:08.55 | Wobin_ | http://theforce.net/fanfilms/fxprojects/ryandork/index.asp |
| 05:09.01 | Wobin_ | That is actually quite well done =) |
| 05:09.18 | slouken | She's almost 2, why? |
| 05:09.31 | Legorol | just curious, no particular reason :-) |
| 05:09.33 | Legorol | very cute age |
| 05:10.02 | ckknight | the terrible twos? |
| 05:10.14 | slouken | the experimental twos. :) |
| 05:10.28 | slouken | they can talk, and they discover they can do other things than what their parents say they should. |
| 05:10.29 | ckknight | that doesn't alliterate nicely |
| 05:10.41 | Wobin_ | The "Ooh shiny, what does -this- do?" stage? |
| 05:10.45 | ckknight | I thought that was supposed to hit when they're teenagers... |
| 05:10.50 | slouken | It's like mental judo |
| 05:11.31 | Wobin_ | That's more "Tab A into Slot B" ckknight =) |
| 05:11.31 | slouken | I'll tell you in 10 years. :) |
| 05:11.32 | Cairenn | Wobin_: ! |
| 05:11.32 | Legorol | not at the "why? why? why?" age yet then? |
| 05:11.43 | Tain | Mental judo? I'm more in the mental couch potato realm. |
| 05:11.52 | Wobin_ | That leads into the "Because I said so" stage swiftly afterwards =) |
| 05:12.01 | Cairenn | shape, too, Tain :p |
| 05:12.16 | Tain | Yes, but it's all mind over matter. I don't mind, so it doesn't matter. :) |
| 05:12.21 | Legorol | lol |
| 05:12.22 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 05:12.26 | slouken | lol |
| 05:13.43 | Tain | Now I'm going to slip into mental deep sleep. Which is rather like normal deep sleep. |
| 05:13.54 | Tain | ~lart Legorol |
| 05:14.04 | Legorol | lol |
| 05:14.12 | Legorol | i'm deleted |
| 05:14.20 | slouken | I once did rm -rf * |
| 05:14.23 | slouken | once |
| 05:14.30 | slouken | Then I created a file "-i" |
| 05:14.32 | Gryphen | i once did rm -rf / |
| 05:14.33 | Wobin_ | once is all you need =P |
| 05:14.34 | Legorol | were you in / at least? |
| 05:14.41 | slouken | no, my home directory |
| 05:14.47 | slouken | I lost 5 years of mail. |
| 05:14.48 | Legorol | ah not too bad then |
| 05:14.49 | Cairenn | ouch |
| 05:14.50 | Legorol | :( |
| 05:14.58 | Legorol | that's bad |
| 05:15.02 | Legorol | i religiously back up all my email |
| 05:15.14 | Cairenn | I religiously delete all my email :p |
| 05:15.15 | slouken | Me too... ~/mail/mail.backup |
| 05:15.17 | slouken | lol |
| 05:15.19 | Iriel | That reminds of an old saying |
| 05:15.35 | Iriel | There are two types of Unix user - those who have accidently done rm -rf in the wrong place, and those who will. |
| 05:15.42 | Legorol | well in 20 years time i'll be showing me children these photos and mails i used to send when i was young |
| 05:15.44 | slouken | The -i file is a cute trick though. I thanked myself a few years later, when I tried to do it again. ;-) |
| 05:15.55 | Legorol | lol |
| 05:16.14 | Wobin_ | "Back in the days when we had TEXT emails..." |
| 05:16.19 | Legorol | yeah |
| 05:16.22 | ckknight | I have done rm -rf way too many times |
| 05:16.23 | Legorol | not holographic (yet) |
| 05:16.29 | Iriel | I still read email with mutt |
| 05:16.37 | Iriel | though I've branched out to use mozilla too |
| 05:16.40 | ckknight | Legorol, you honestly think we're going to get holographs? |
| 05:16.41 | slouken | You're such a dog Iriel. :) |
| 05:16.48 | Legorol | ckknight: no i don't |
| 05:16.50 | ckknight | I don't see a demand or the necessary ROI |
| 05:17.05 | ckknight | I shift-delete in windows |
| 05:17.08 | slouken | I've even done this: function rm() mv -f $* ~/.trash/ |
| 05:17.09 | ckknight | lousy recycle bin... |
| 05:17.18 | Legorol | ckknight: you mean you haven't set it up yet so you don't have to hold shift? |
| 05:17.24 | slouken | But... I ended up with a few gigs in ~/.trash, so I scrapped it |
| 05:17.43 | Legorol | slouken: "Empty Recycle Bin" |
| 05:17.55 | slouken | Yeah, yeah, that's for newbies. :) |
| 05:17.56 | ckknight | slouken, I did that, but it went screwy when I had multiple hard drives |
| 05:18.10 | Legorol | i'm in the (very) vocal minority of Windows users here.. |
| 05:18.13 | ckknight | deleting on one drive moved em to my other and crashed the system |
| 05:18.18 | Legorol | that's why i wouldn't cut it in the IT industry :p |
| 05:18.50 | Legorol | i guess that should've been "vocal (very) minority" |
| 05:18.51 | slouken | now it's dd if=/dev/zero of=$1 bs=1024 count=`ls -l $1 | awk '{print $7}'` |
| 05:19.28 | slouken | okay, I'll stop geeking out now. :) |
| 05:19.43 | Legorol | don't on our account.. |
| 05:19.45 | ckknight | you only write over it once? |
| 05:19.46 | slouken | Start -> Program Files -> Games -> Minesweeper |
| 05:19.52 | Legorol | Solitaire ftw |
| 05:19.53 | slouken | lol |
| 05:20.01 | ckknight | you need to dd if=/dev/random as well |
| 05:20.05 | slouken | Cairenn's the queen of minesweeper. :) |
| 05:20.20 | Legorol | i'm no good at minesweeper ... too slow for it :/ |
| 05:20.27 | Legorol | i can solve it all right, just not quickly |
| 05:20.34 | Wobin_ | I love awk |
| 05:20.37 | Wobin_ | Just for the name |
| 05:20.44 | Wobin_ | It makes me visualise parrots doing code |
| 05:20.47 | slouken | The gnu version is better... |
| 05:20.49 | Cairenn | I haven't been able to bring myself to reset my score after that one |
| 05:20.49 | slouken | gawk |
| 05:21.08 | Legorol | did you manage the smallest one under 7 seconds yet? |
| 05:21.09 | Iriel | My windows solitaire type game of choice is spider |
| 05:21.11 | Iriel | Played on hard |
| 05:21.27 | Legorol | i have solitaire on mobile, for those boring times when i have to wait for something/someone |
| 05:21.35 | Cairenn | Legorol: expert (99 bombs) - 62 s |
| 05:21.40 | Legorol | ZOMG |
| 05:21.46 | ckknight | yes, zomg. |
| 05:21.47 | Legorol | you gotta be kidding me |
| 05:22.05 | Legorol | that's not possible if you are thinking... |
| 05:22.11 | Legorol | admit it, you were just clicking randomly and got lucky! |
| 05:22.32 | ckknight | you know hard that is, statistically? |
| 05:22.42 | Legorol | yeah yeah i know |
| 05:22.48 | Legorol | but not impossible, just improbable"! |
| 05:24.16 | Legorol | slouken, when do you plan to teach your daughter to use a computer? |
| 05:24.22 | Legorol | and when are you getting her WoW account :D |
| 05:24.33 | slouken | When she's 15 |
| 05:24.41 | Legorol | :/ very late |
| 05:24.46 | slouken | heh |
| 05:24.47 | Legorol | you got to infect them with geekiness at 6 |
| 05:24.53 | Wobin_ | If WoW is still around in 13 years, I'll be most impressed =) |
| 05:24.58 | ckknight | I'm gonna say that's a bad thing... |
| 05:25.15 | ckknight | I was put in front of a computer at 4 and I don't think it was the best thing for me |
| 05:25.19 | Legorol | ok but our children's generation will be using computers from 6 |
| 05:25.24 | Legorol | it's just such essential part of life now |
| 05:25.29 | Legorol | or earlier than 6 |
| 05:25.37 | Legorol | they will learn computers as they learn to read/write |
| 05:25.49 | Iriel | You're making me feel old ckknight |
| 05:25.51 | slouken | yep, that's why I'm not in a rush |
| 05:26.08 | Legorol | you've only got 3-4 years left :-) |
| 05:26.29 | Legorol | btw, have i ever retold the story of my grandpa in here? |
| 05:26.34 | Legorol | probably haven't, so here it goes |
| 05:26.38 | Legorol | he is 86 at the moment |
| 05:26.47 | Cairenn | I kid you not ... http://www.cairenn-mmorpg.com/images/various/minesweeper.gif |
| 05:26.52 | Legorol | about a year ago, his eyesight suddenly started deteriorating |
| 05:27.05 | Legorol | to the extent that he stopped being able to read the newspaper or watch TV |
| 05:27.14 | ckknight | mascular degeneration? |
| 05:27.20 | Legorol | he was very active kind of person, and we were worried that the boredom would kill him, literally |
| 05:27.30 | Legorol | at that age, with nothing to do, he wouldn't last long :( |
| 05:27.37 | Legorol | so we decided taht we will try and get him a computer |
| 05:27.45 | Legorol | 18" monitor, ultra-large letters |
| 05:27.50 | Legorol | he has never touched a computer in his life |
| 05:27.53 | slouken | Cairenn, you rock. :) |
| 05:27.54 | Legorol | he was apprehensive |
| 05:28.02 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 05:28.05 | Legorol | and now he is routinely surfing the web |
| 05:28.23 | Legorol | he told me: "if i'd known that computers are this useful, i'd have gotten one 15 years ago!" |
| 05:28.33 | Legorol | take that.. isn't that impressive? |
| 05:28.40 | Wobin_ | You're scary, Cair =) |
| 05:28.48 | Legorol | he learnt computers at the age of 86 with deteriorating eyesight |
| 05:28.53 | ckknight | if by scary you mean hot |
| 05:29.10 | Legorol | that's Cairenn's daughter, you silly |
| 05:29.46 | ckknight | lol |
| 05:29.51 | ckknight | close enough |
| 05:30.08 | Cairenn | that's 2 years ago now |
| 05:30.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-150-122.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 05:30.49 | Legorol | Cairenn, how is the new FAQ coming :D |
| 05:31.00 | Legorol | i see you have it in your eyesight ;-) |
| 05:31.10 | Cairenn | Legorol: don't think you ever told the story in channel, although you did tell it to me before |
| 05:31.26 | Legorol | ah right |
| 05:31.29 | Cairenn | yeah, well, funny how no one seems to be willing to help me finish sorting it out :p |
| 05:31.49 | Legorol | right, i'm off to bed.. |
| 05:31.54 | Iriel | Gnight Lego |
| 05:33.09 | slouken | http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/tmp/desktop.jpg |
| 05:33.14 | Legorol | Cairenn: what chat program is that? looks very nice |
| 05:33.20 | ckknight | Gaim |
| 05:33.23 | Cairenn | yup |
| 05:33.33 | Legorol | gaim? ah |
| 05:33.35 | slouken | brb, baby bedtime assist |
| 05:33.39 | ckknight | personally, I find it attrocious on Windows |
| 05:33.47 | Legorol | i use it under Linux, when i have to... |
| 05:33.50 | Cairenn | I like it well enough |
| 05:33.50 | Legorol | on Windows, it's mirc |
| 05:34.08 | ckknight | it always lags on me |
| 05:34.10 | Cairenn | I pretty much have to use either this or trillian |
| 05:34.17 | ckknight | I use Trillian |
| 05:34.26 | Cairenn | otherwise I've just got tooooooooo many things all running at the same time |
| 05:34.36 | Kirov | I'm using trillian right now, just because I don't have mirc anymore |
| 05:34.42 | Kirov | too lazy to get it |
| 05:35.03 | Cairenn | aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo, rogers, email, web, then whatever I'm actually doing ... |
| 05:36.01 | Cairenn | and while I prefer trillian for some things, I like the way gaim handles irc better |
| 05:37.43 | ckknight | I agree to that, but I just can't stand the display lag that Gtk+ has in Windows |
| 05:38.13 | Cairenn | I don't find any problems with it |
| 05:38.46 | Cairenn | different strokes for different folks, that's what keeps this old world of ours interesting anyway |
| 05:39.18 | slouken | back |
| 05:39.21 | ckknight | c'mon, you're not for the benevolent dictator forcing us all to live one way, ala 1984/Equilibrium/etc.? |
| 05:39.23 | Cairenn | front |
| 05:39.40 | Legorol | Cairenn, do you play EQ, EQ2 and WoW all of them? |
| 05:39.56 | Cairenn | lalala |
| 05:39.57 | Kirov | I think we should tax people who stand in water!</gumbie> |
| 05:40.09 | Legorol | i'm amazed you have the time you have to chat in here :D |
| 05:40.16 | Cairenn | Legorol: you missed one |
| 05:40.20 | Legorol | i hardly have time just to play WoW! |
| 05:40.27 | Legorol | with all the chatting i do here |
| 05:40.38 | Legorol | sorry don't recognize the other icons |
| 05:41.18 | Cairenn | ff, email, gaim, trillian, eq, eq2, wow and one I can't say |
| 05:41.22 | Legorol | i have to say those icons you got pretty much describes one's priorities in life: web, mail, messenger, music and mmos |
| 05:41.28 | Legorol | all the important things in life |
| 05:41.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 05:41.48 | Legorol | trillian? is that music-looking icon? |
| 05:41.57 | Cairenn | sorry, not trillian |
| 05:42.05 | Cairenn | itunes |
| 05:42.07 | Cairenn | duh |
| 05:42.21 | Cairenn | and nope, not all the important things in life |
| 05:42.23 | Legorol | why can't you say? you tease |
| 05:42.24 | ckknight | iTunes kills oggs. *sniff* |
| 05:42.37 | Cairenn | the important thing in life is the picture in the middle of my screen :) |
| 05:42.38 | Legorol | ok true, family should be there somewhere as well |
| 05:42.51 | Kirov | Lego - it's SWG, she's just too ashamed to say |
| 05:43.02 | Legorol | why, does it bite? |
| 05:43.20 | Cairenn | no, it's not SWG |
| 05:43.23 | Kirov | hehe |
| 05:43.27 | Cairenn | and it doesn't really matter |
| 05:43.35 | Cairenn | (what it is, I mean) |
| 05:44.53 | Cairenn | night Legorol, sweet dreams |
| 05:46.11 | Kirov | Cairenn, can you make the gorgonnash boogy men go away? |
| 05:46.21 | Cairenn | *blink* |
| 05:46.29 | Kirov | heh |
| 05:46.46 | Kirov | Gorgonnash server is on the fritz |
| 05:46.48 | Cairenn | whahuh? |
| 05:46.51 | Kirov | as usual |
| 05:47.11 | Kirov | It's the bastard step child server of the wow server list |
| 05:47.15 | Cairenn | ah |
| 05:47.19 | Wobin_ | red headed? |
| 05:47.28 | Cairenn | you mean IceDown doesn't have that distinction any longer? |
| 05:47.35 | Kirov | wobin - wouldn't know, keeps her head shaved |
| 05:48.21 | Ktron|afk | there's a server called IceDown? |
| 05:48.30 | Cairenn | Icecrown |
| 05:48.39 | Ktron | ah yes |
| 05:48.45 | Cairenn | but it was one of the "terrible 20" |
| 05:48.52 | Wobin_ | It's like BlackrockDown |
| 05:48.52 | Cairenn | so we renamed it IceDown |
| 05:48.55 | ckknight | terrible 20? |
| 05:48.55 | Kirov | The only Ragnaros fight our guild has ever done with zero deaths was one where the world server died a horrible, horrible death, and we go the "server shut down in 15 minutes" in mc. |
| 05:49.10 | Ktron | where was the terrrible 20 list made? was there a 'top 20' too? |
| 05:49.40 | Cairenn | ckknight: when the game first came out, there were (and still are) 20 servers that were forever and always down or lagged to hell and back or just generally fucked up one way or another |
| 05:49.42 | Iriel | Silver Hand is one of the terrible 20 too 8-( |
| 05:49.53 | Iriel | And unsurprisingly, on the maintainence list for tomorrow |
| 05:50.40 | Cairenn | and golly gee, look at that, IceDown is on the list for tomorrow too ... what a surprise |
| 05:50.57 | Kirov | Have those servers had realm transfers opened in to them yet? |
| 05:51.02 | Cairenn | yup |
| 05:51.18 | Cairenn | that's why I'm on A.N. now |
| 05:52.47 | Ktron | Azjol-Nerub? |
| 05:52.50 | Cairenn | yup |
| 05:53.00 | Iriel | Note to self: Do not enter a sewer without any arrows |
| 05:53.22 | Cairenn | *blink* |
| 05:53.23 | Wobin_ | You might get lost |
| 05:53.43 | End | a grue might eat you? wait, no, that's a maze with a lot of twisty little passages |
| 05:53.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=Sam@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 05:54.01 | Kirov | no, that's any place dark |
| 05:54.11 | End | true |
| 05:54.24 | End | it's been a while since I've played zork |
| 05:54.33 | Wobin_ | Hiya Sailor! |
| 05:54.46 | End | oddly enough, my computer's name is zork |
| 05:55.06 | Ktron | zork? blech |
| 05:55.09 | Kirov | my computer's name is Unferth |
| 05:55.25 | End | I had another called rogue |
| 05:55.37 | Kirov | I'm willing to bet no one has a clue what that reference is |
| 05:56.02 | Ktron | Toxicity (before the song), Venom, Daedelus, Ninja, Daemon, and currently Titan |
| 05:56.13 | Ktron | Unferth... I think I do |
| 05:56.20 | Wobin_ | Beowulf? |
| 05:56.26 | Ktron | yeah, beowolf I think |
| 05:56.39 | Kirov | wow, first people to catch it |
| 05:56.40 | slouken | beowulf is heady stuff |
| 05:56.45 | ckknight | my computer's name is Aluminum |
| 05:56.49 | ckknight | my server is Platinum |
| 05:57.00 | Wobin_ | What, not "Aluminium"? =) |
| 05:57.12 | Iriel | Impulse, Echo, Tornado, Granite, and Badass in here |
| 05:57.12 | ckknight | because I live in America |
| 05:57.33 | Wobin_ | Any theme in particular, Iriel? |
| 05:57.53 | Iriel | Tornado - lots of fans in the case |
| 05:57.59 | Iriel | Echo - Was a duplicate of another machine |
| 05:58.04 | Iriel | Granite - It's stable and grey |
| 05:58.15 | Wobin_ | And Badass speaks for itself =) |
| 05:58.15 | Iriel | Badass - At the time I got it, it was pretty hot |
| 05:58.23 | Iriel | Impulse - I bought it on a whim |
| 05:58.30 | Kirov | laptop? |
| 05:58.46 | Iriel | The laptop is Roamertoo, (it replaced Roamer) |
| 05:59.33 | Iriel | Then my rented servers are Focus (the old one that goes away next week) and Aperture (the new one) |
| 06:00.06 | Kirov | Unferth is my laptop. My main computer is Monolith. Black lian-li case |
| 06:00.21 | Iriel | Monolith, Megalith, and Minilith are my 3 machines at work |
| 06:00.36 | Ktron | I'm pretty certain that if I ever have my own network or group of computers, I'm going with a planets theme... Sol for the server, and mercury through sedna for the system names |
| 06:00.49 | End | I had a friend who did that |
| 06:00.52 | Wobin_ | hehe one of the labs at uni had a 'star name' theme |
| 06:00.53 | Ktron | the lian-li cases are nice, but expensive |
| 06:01.05 | Wobin_ | Another used 'hedgehog species' |
| 06:01.10 | Iriel | My university's computer services hosts were named as planets |
| 06:01.13 | Wobin_ | which was kinda cool |
| 06:01.22 | Wobin_ | Lindesfarne =) |
| 06:01.24 | Iriel | By the time I left they were onto herbs, cheeses, body parts |
| 06:01.34 | Iriel | (There was a machine called 'spleen', for example) |
| 06:01.37 | Ktron | The math cluster at my university is called spicerack, and the computer names are things like catnip, mustard... |
| 06:01.48 | Ktron | there's 12 of them, I'm forgetting most of them |
| 06:02.00 | End | hehe |
| 06:02.38 | Kirov | Anyone here heard of "the crazy cat lady" ... the non-npc one |
| 06:02.57 | Ktron | I didn't know there was a planet bigger than sedna and pluto that was found, besides the 9 main ones |
| 06:03.00 | End | the non-npc one? like...irl? |
| 06:03.22 | Kirov | End - On my server there's a person who's cornered the market on selling cats on the horde AH |
| 06:03.34 | End | oh |
| 06:03.40 | Kirov | There was an article on him in EG not too long ago. |
| 06:03.44 | Ktron | lol |
| 06:03.47 | Ktron | that's funny |
| 06:04.01 | Kirov | Anyways, he's a coworker, so my computer at work is named "Cornish" |
| 06:04.18 | End | I always went to gadgetzan for my cats :P |
| 06:04.35 | End | hehe |
| 06:08.24 | End | hah |
| 06:08.33 | End | I just saw two gnome mages |
| 06:08.41 | End | one following the other |
| 06:08.50 | End | one was called freezum, other called fryum |
| 06:09.03 | Ktron | lol |
| 06:09.07 | End | dammit |
| 06:09.10 | ckknight | lol |
| 06:09.20 | Ktron | my friend and I have dual gnome rogues, shmiggles and squiggles |
| 06:09.29 | Ktron | on ED |
| 06:09.33 | End | and then they shot me with a frostbolt and fireball at the same exact time |
| 06:09.39 | End | killed me in one instant |
| 06:09.43 | Ktron | lol |
| 06:10.13 | End | (both are about 6 levels above me to start with) |
| 06:17.18 | Cairenn | night Iriel, sweet dreams |
| 06:17.39 | Iriel | Night, see you all tomorrow no doubt |
| 06:17.52 | Tem | later Iriel |
| 06:17.59 | End | cya Iriel |
| 06:18.53 | Tem | did they take down the test server? |
| 06:19.10 | Cairenn | they're down atm, not gone though |
| 06:19.30 | Cairenn | been down for ... couple hours now? somethign like that |
| 06:19.53 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:20.07 | Tem | I was hoping to play with some stuff there when I get out of MC |
| 06:20.25 | Cairenn | they may be back up in a while, dunno |
| 06:21.21 | Tem | I hope so |
| 06:22.44 | Tem | End: that's awesome |
| 06:29.28 | Cairenn | well, that's it for me guys, I'm out |
| 06:29.31 | Cairenn | night night |
| 06:29.45 | Tem | night Cair |
| 06:29.49 | Tem | sleep well |
| 06:32.13 | Ktron | I think I'm going to take a hint from Cair |
| 06:34.43 | Ktron | purl, hold down the fortress |
| 06:34.44 | purl | ACTION battens down the hatches. |
| 06:34.46 | Ktron | g'night |
| 06:34.47 | krka | NOOOOOO, i forgot to turn on logging after i updated xchat |
| 06:34.54 | Tem | later Ktron |
| 06:35.03 | krka | no i'll never know what the people discussed after i went to sleep |
| 06:35.04 | Ktron | krka, this channel is all online somewheres, right? |
| 06:35.26 | krka | hm |
| 06:35.46 | Cairenn|sleep | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowi-lounge/ |
| 06:35.50 | krka | I find that intruiging. Please tell me more. |
| 06:36.12 | Cairenn|sleep | (the actual reason for having purl in channel) |
| 06:36.28 | krka | poor slouken, forgot he had a softporn browser up before he took the screenshot O_o |
| 06:37.47 | krka | gotta wait till tomorrow to see the latest stufF? |
| 06:38.01 | Tem | krka: what screenshot? |
| 06:38.17 | krka | <slouken> http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/tmp/desktop.jpg |
| 06:40.03 | krka | omg sloukens resume doesn't include Lua |
| 06:40.24 | Tem | rofl @ the window under his IRC stuff |
| 06:41.02 | End | I noticed that too, haha |
| 06:41.11 | krka | you say rofl, i say drool :P |
| 06:41.38 | ckknight | KDE, ew. |
| 06:42.35 | Tem | yeah, I much prefer gnome |
| 06:42.40 | krka | i run gnome but no reason to hate on kde for that :P |
| 06:42.55 | Ktron|sleep | kde uses less resources, or so I was told by my university |
| 06:43.13 | Ktron|sleep | therefore all of our computers run kde instead of gnome |
| 06:43.15 | krka | but is kde a race in WoW??? |
| 06:44.01 | ckknight | I much prefer Gnome to KDE |
| 06:44.05 | ckknight | and I'm not hating |
| 06:44.07 | ckknight | just saying eww |
| 06:44.13 | ckknight | (it's icky) |
| 06:44.13 | End | I like gnome better in general ( at least I used too, it's been a while) |
| 06:44.19 | ckknight | and I'm anti-GPL |
| 06:44.21 | krka | i see |
| 06:44.28 | krka | anti-gpl? O_o |
| 06:44.33 | Ktron|sleep | gnome seems smoother |
| 06:44.34 | krka | stop it, i am in a hurry, no time for arguments |
| 06:44.57 | ckknight | yea, I can't develop with Qt unless I license my work under GPL |
| 06:44.58 | End | I used to really like gnome when it was really ugly (well, gtk was) |
| 06:44.58 | Ktron|sleep | clearlooks is my style, I use the windows vs 'clearlooks' a lot, because I hate XP's default look |
| 06:45.01 | ckknight | that's why I prefer Gtk+ |
| 06:45.07 | ckknight | I'm a BSD fan |
| 06:45.13 | ckknight | as far as licenses go |
| 06:45.37 | Ktron|sleep | I wish Gtk+ was used more on windows |
| 06:45.59 | Tem | amen |
| 06:46.02 | krka | you can't spell bastard without bsd |
| 06:46.31 | Tem | and you can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter" what's your point |
| 06:46.39 | krka | no point! |
| 06:46.41 | krka | i never have points |
| 06:46.42 | Ktron|sleep | and I pray to the gods that may exist that gnome and/or kde eventually is ported to replace explorer.exe on windows |
| 06:46.56 | End | krka is pointless |
| 06:47.03 | End | ;p |
| 06:47.06 | krka | my girlfriend disagrees! |
| 06:47.06 | Tem | Ktron|sleep: just dump windows |
| 06:47.14 | Tem | so it's pointy? |
| 06:47.17 | Tem | that sucks man |
| 06:47.25 | Tem | I hear they have pills for that now |
| 06:47.29 | End | haha |
| 06:47.56 | Ktron|sleep | Tem, I need to run 3DS Max, World of Warcraft, JMP-IN, and none of those I believe can be made to work in linux correctly |
| 06:47.57 | krka | so the spam tells me |
| 06:48.03 | krka | wrong |
| 06:48.06 | krka | WoW runs fine |
| 06:48.12 | Tem | Ktron|sleep: I hear that wow runs just fine |
| 06:48.19 | Ktron|sleep | which distribution? |
| 06:48.20 | Tem | and in some cases better than in windows |
| 06:48.26 | krka | debian in my case |
| 06:48.43 | krka | in my case more efficient in lin than in win |
| 06:48.48 | Ktron|sleep | I was talking to people in this channel... beladona I think about running WoW in ubuntu and beladona didn't get it working right |
| 06:49.28 | End | I got it running under wine on FreeBSD once, but the sound was messed up, and you had the usual lack of selection circles |
| 06:49.41 | Ktron|sleep | debian takes like 238 CDs to install :(... but maybe I'll consider it... what about JMP or 3DS Max 7? I can't get away with blender |
| 06:50.04 | Tem | I'd bet those are easier to get running than wow |
| 06:50.10 | End | (fortunately, the selection circle problem has been fixed) |
| 06:50.54 | Ktron|sleep | JMP is like maple + excel |
| 06:51.06 | Ktron|sleep | and 3DS Max I'd expect to be worse |
| 06:51.15 | krka | debian has a netinst |
| 06:51.30 | krka | and i more technically used mepis |
| 06:51.35 | krka | but now it's become debian |
| 06:52.01 | krka | off to work now |
| 06:54.26 | Ktron|sleep | heh, I'll look into debian, but my guess is the difficulty of getting linux to work with my hardware and run World of Warcraft will be greater than the difficulty of dealing with explorer.exe |
| 06:54.27 | Ktron|sleep | anyway |
| 06:54.30 | Ktron|sleep | really going to sleep now |
| 06:56.03 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-150-122.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 07:17.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:51.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:52.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:32.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 10:16.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.33.248) |
| 11:04.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 11:25.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=neffa@203-184-54-139.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 12:23.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:23.28 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 12:23.51 | Maldivia | ditto |
| 12:24.34 | Shouryuu | I almost choked in my sleep last night |
| 12:24.51 | Shouryuu | didn't know I could but I managed |
| 12:25.19 | Maldivia | hmm... bugger... must initiate plan B now... |
| 12:25.47 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 12:29.10 | Shouryuu | and I'm going mad |
| 12:29.19 | Shouryuu | I have a song in my head and I can't figure out *who* sung it |
| 12:29.33 | Maldivia | lyrics? |
| 12:30.01 | Maldivia | I'm the local "guess that song" champion... or something :9 |
| 12:30.38 | Shouryuu | it's french |
| 12:30.54 | Shouryuu | well actualy |
| 12:30.57 | Shouryuu | it's internation |
| 12:32.06 | Shouryuu | it's "danse boy, danse, in the arms of your girl| Danse girl, danse, in the arms of your boy|Let both your families think what all they like|Let them fight, LOVE IS ALWAYS RIGHT" |
| 12:33.08 | Shouryuu | w00t found it |
| 12:33.36 | Maldivia | :) |
| 12:34.16 | Maldivia | La Rue Kétanou - Danse ? |
| 12:34.40 | Shouryuu | yup |
| 12:34.50 | Shouryuu | I googled the lyrics in english and it worked |
| 12:35.00 | Shouryuu | the lyrics in french gave me 100 000 results |
| 12:35.12 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 12:35.34 | Shouryuu | lol I'm listening to rap with accordion |
| 12:36.47 | Shouryuu | lol "sex accordion and alchool!" How cooool is that! |
| 12:48.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge huggymuggy (n=user-245@213.212.238.8) |
| 13:01.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 13:12.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 13:15.08 | JoshBorke | morning |
| 13:19.51 | Shouryuu | hello |
| 13:20.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:47.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=dan@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:47.39 | kremonte | well that was a broken hotfix |
| 13:47.53 | kremonte | now even if you just cancel logout quickly you DC |
| 13:48.05 | kremonte | so when i accidentally hit logout instead of video options, i fuck myself =o= |
| 14:00.00 | Maldivia | kremonte: ? |
| 14:00.15 | kremonte | they just hotfixed an exploit |
| 14:00.21 | kremonte | where you could /script Logout() CancelLogout() Jump() |
| 14:00.27 | kremonte | and jump jump jump infinitely high |
| 14:01.21 | End | haha, that's pretty funny |
| 14:01.35 | kremonte | yeah they hotfixed it by DCing you if you cancelled quickly |
| 14:01.37 | kremonte | ..gg |
| 14:01.43 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 14:01.45 | kremonte | what a bad hotfix |
| 14:10.28 | Shouryuu | damn where can I find a log of the conversations in this channel |
| 14:10.36 | Shouryuu | Cair gave it to me once but I lost the link... |
| 14:11.48 | kremonte | ~logs |
| 14:11.50 | purl | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 14:12.37 | Shouryuu | thank you |
| 14:13.33 | krka|work | can you copy paste that? :) |
| 14:14.11 | Shouryuu | copy past que? |
| 14:22.17 | krka|work | i am assuming purl spit out an url |
| 14:22.23 | krka|work | i want to know what it was |
| 14:22.39 | Wobin_ | http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ |
| 14:22.56 | Wobin_ | have you got purl ignored? =P |
| 14:23.31 | krka|work | yes |
| 14:35.42 | End | dammit, time to reboot the server |
| 14:56.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge End (n=end@c-67-161-159-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:57.22 | End | hmm, apcupsd is neat-o |
| 15:00.34 | JoshBorke | yea it is :D |
| 15:10.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 15:13.50 | [MoonWolf] | http://infernix.net/wowban/ |
| 15:13.54 | [MoonWolf] | discuss |
| 15:17.36 | Cairenn | what's to discuss? same old same old |
| 15:18.54 | [MoonWolf] | i was trying to get people to talk :( |
| 15:19.20 | JoshBorke | want to discuss my newest mod idea? |
| 15:19.28 | [MoonWolf] | JoshBorke, sure. |
| 15:19.57 | JoshBorke | a general heal tracker to let you know what heals are going to land on your current target and what HoT's your current target has (with the amount of time left) |
| 15:20.16 | [MoonWolf] | so like a heal predictor ? |
| 15:20.22 | Wobin_ | what heals are -going- to land? |
| 15:20.22 | JoshBorke | yea |
| 15:20.26 | Wobin_ | hod do you predict that? |
| 15:20.36 | JoshBorke | can i see when someone begins to cast something? |
| 15:20.38 | [MoonWolf] | get cast information from the other priests and druids |
| 15:20.45 | Wobin_ | ah |
| 15:20.50 | [MoonWolf] | then calculate when those will land |
| 15:20.51 | JoshBorke | or would that information have to be passed between everyone? |
| 15:21.01 | [MoonWolf] | depends on range i think. |
| 15:21.07 | Wobin_ | Normally I'd say "JoshBorke begins casting Healing Touch"? |
| 15:21.18 | JoshBorke | Wobin_: yea, i'd process those messages |
| 15:21.22 | Wobin_ | but it doesn't have the target? |
| 15:21.45 | JoshBorke | hm, i see |
| 15:21.55 | Wobin_ | I can't say, myself, normally I'm focussed on the actual casting when I'm healing =) |
| 15:22.11 | [MoonWolf] | in that case you need all the priestws to have the plugin. |
| 15:22.20 | Wobin_ | You could do it the way Moony suggested, but that involves interaddon communication |
| 15:22.29 | Wobin_ | Which complicates the mattter |
| 15:22.41 | JoshBorke | could i do UnitIsUnit("target","raid<i>target")? |
| 15:22.55 | Wobin_ | hm, that might work... |
| 15:23.09 | Wobin_ | but if they switch target after starting the cast, you may not get the info fast enough |
| 15:23.20 | Wobin_ | since you're sort of responding to the combatlog chat |
| 15:23.28 | Wobin_ | (unless there's an event thrown) |
| 15:24.06 | JoshBorke | i see |
| 15:24.07 | JoshBorke | hrm |
| 15:24.15 | Wobin_ | I know that with my healing, I'm hardly ever actually targetted full time on the one I'm healing |
| 15:24.25 | JoshBorke | indeed |
| 15:25.33 | Wobin_ | hehe |
| 15:25.33 | Wobin_ | Type of Violation: Witnessed and confirmed use of third party program - Boting |
| 15:25.45 | Wobin_ | BOTING |
| 15:25.57 | JoshBorke | yea |
| 15:26.27 | Shouryuu | do you believe that guy? |
| 15:26.30 | Wobin_ | Ah, wow-europe |
| 15:26.38 | Wobin_ | I give them the benefit of the doubt for spelling then |
| 15:27.07 | [MoonWolf] | thats what i mean, the guy discribes that he is botting in that file yet he hast the balls to complain about it. |
| 15:27.25 | ckknight | yea, it did seem like he was botting |
| 15:27.26 | [MoonWolf] | he was sitting in front of his tv while his priest was leveling weaponskills |
| 15:27.50 | Wobin_ | well technically he was present at the keyboard since the tv was next to his monitor... |
| 15:27.55 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 15:28.03 | Shouryuu | and he was pressing a key for every spell-cast |
| 15:28.22 | Shouryuu | he must have pissed of some lvl 25 that must have reported him |
| 15:29.26 | Shouryuu | like "Gimme sum g0ld plz!!!one!!??!", "No, go away you idiot" |
| 15:30.35 | [MoonWolf] | okay, and the gm was to know that he was sitting next to his computer looking at his tv how |
| 15:30.44 | [MoonWolf] | while his character is performing VERY botlike actions. |
| 15:30.45 | Wobin_ | That's also true |
| 15:30.48 | [MoonWolf] | and not responding. |
| 15:30.55 | Wobin_ | I would have suspended him |
| 15:31.35 | [MoonWolf] | i dont for a minute believe wine had anything to do with it |
| 15:31.45 | ckknight | me either |
| 15:31.46 | Wobin_ | Although what they could have done is flagged his account and watched him after he had sent in his explaination |
| 15:31.51 | Shouryuu | same |
| 15:31.59 | [MoonWolf] | because cedega is officially suporting wow and blizzard hasnt even warned people to not use it. |
| 15:32.11 | Wobin_ | yeah. |
| 15:32.12 | ckknight | Cedega doesn't support WoW? |
| 15:32.23 | Wobin_ | is officially supporting |
| 15:32.24 | [MoonWolf] | it DOES support wow |
| 15:32.34 | ckknight | oh |
| 15:32.35 | ckknight | does |
| 15:32.38 | ckknight | my bad, misread |
| 15:32.41 | [MoonWolf] | np |
| 15:33.04 | [MoonWolf] | anyway, whatever this guy is saying now cannot be confirmed on blizzards side |
| 15:33.09 | [MoonWolf] | they have to take his word for it. |
| 15:33.16 | [MoonWolf] | and the are not. that simple. |
| 15:33.46 | krka|work | so, playing as monotone as a bot is a reason to get banned? |
| 15:33.50 | Wobin_ | That's why I suggest that instead of outright termination, they flag his account and see if he has the same sort of action later |
| 15:34.13 | Wobin_ | (and by action I mean pattern of playing) |
| 15:34.29 | [MoonWolf] | if you act like a bot, dont respond to any communication and give no other sign of life |
| 15:34.37 | Shouryuu | he must have been very close to the volcano of doom |
| 15:34.44 | [MoonWolf] | what other conclusion can you reach. |
| 15:34.50 | Wobin_ | well yes, I can understand the reasons for the suspension |
| 15:34.57 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 15:35.01 | Wobin_ | I would suspend him myself if I saw that |
| 15:35.12 | Wobin_ | but he did reply to Blizzard with an explaination of his actions |
| 15:35.18 | [MoonWolf] | that is how i think it looked from the GM's side. |
| 15:35.35 | [MoonWolf] | how blizzard is now handeling things is a different matter. |
| 15:35.38 | Miravlix | Not responding to a GM = reason to ban |
| 15:35.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:35.45 | Wobin_ | I'm just saying that perhaps Blizzard was a bit harsh in the termination |
| 15:35.52 | Miravlix | It's that simple, there is no way to not explain that |
| 15:36.14 | Wobin_ | As I've been saying, I can't fault the suspension one bit =) |
| 15:36.41 | End | I'd expect, when farming for mats, I'd go up to 15 to 20 seconds with without responding to someone :P |
| 15:36.48 | End | actually |
| 15:36.51 | End | that's gotten me killed |
| 15:37.02 | krka|work | will blizzard ban anyone who doesn't understand english and cant reply to GM? |
| 15:37.02 | End | I've gotten ganked while spamming claw on a mob |
| 15:37.09 | End | and not noticed until I was dead >_< |
| 15:37.19 | Miravlix | Hey I will go let the cat in and out while playing and stuff, but thats not the same as ignoring a GM. |
| 15:37.21 | krka|work | or people who just hide away their chat box entirely |
| 15:37.25 | Wobin_ | krka that would mean all the CGF's would get banned =P |
| 15:37.41 | Codayus | hmm |
| 15:37.45 | Codayus | what are you people discussing? |
| 15:37.46 | Wobin_ | I'm pretty sure the GMs have a way to override that |
| 15:38.02 | Wobin_ | Like, they'd probably have a speechbubble that can't be turned off |
| 15:38.18 | Wobin_ | http://infernix.net/wowban/ |
| 15:38.21 | krka|work | but then they'd have to be in your field of vision |
| 15:38.25 | Wobin_ | Not hard |
| 15:38.31 | Wobin_ | Stand right in front of them |
| 15:38.40 | Wobin_ | freeze them in place if necessary |
| 15:38.40 | krka|work | what if i have some other stuff in front? |
| 15:38.45 | krka|work | like Auction house UI |
| 15:38.53 | End | or the world map |
| 15:38.55 | krka|work | yeah |
| 15:39.04 | krka|work | that was a better example |
| 15:39.05 | Wobin_ | I think if required, the GM could simply port the user to a neutral zone |
| 15:39.19 | Wobin_ | Also easy enough to close the worldmap |
| 15:39.27 | Wobin_ | forcibly |
| 15:39.33 | krka|work | really? |
| 15:39.37 | End | how so? |
| 15:39.39 | krka|work | do you have _any_ proof of that? |
| 15:39.44 | Wobin_ | call the close worldmap function on the player |
| 15:39.54 | krka|work | i really don't think blizzard have all that much power implemented |
| 15:39.54 | Cairenn | that's the thing ... if they think it's a bot, they teleport you and see what reaction it garners |
| 15:40.08 | Wobin_ | I'm just saying the GMs will definitely have a certain amount of power in regards to gaining attention |
| 15:40.08 | [MoonWolf] | krka|work, i dont think they will ban anybody for not responding to a gm if that is the only thing going on. |
| 15:40.15 | [MoonWolf] | but that was not the case |
| 15:40.21 | End | server side probably has no idea if you have world map open or not |
| 15:40.31 | Cairenn | if it is a real person, there's no way they won't notice being teleported to a completely different part of the world |
| 15:40.42 | Wobin_ | Of course, if you're sitting there with your worldmap open, you're not doing anything botlike anyway =P |
| 15:40.47 | ckknight | he would've continued to keep pressing the button even after being talked to/ported |
| 15:40.57 | End | well |
| 15:41.01 | End | you might be autoattacking |
| 15:41.05 | End | but that's about it |
| 15:41.20 | ckknight | he was pressing the button to hex of weakness and such |
| 15:41.29 | [MoonWolf] | . After all, it was from the late hours of Saturday till the early hours of Sunda <- this is not small timeframe. |
| 15:41.42 | Wobin_ | I'm fairly sure that if the location suddenly changed, he'd notice |
| 15:41.55 | Wobin_ | Even if he had only 10% of his attention on the screen |
| 15:41.56 | Wobin_ | as he said |
| 15:42.07 | Wobin_ | or rather 1% |
| 15:43.14 | [MoonWolf] | I have now spent close to 300 Euros on your game. <- how the hell |
| 15:43.31 | ckknight | buying gold maybe? |
| 15:43.37 | Cairenn | probably including monthly fees? |
| 15:43.44 | [MoonWolf] | the game is around for a year in the eu now that is 12 euro a month for 12 months plus 60 for the game |
| 15:43.48 | End | monthly fees isn't -that- much, is it? |
| 15:44.11 | Cairenn | that still doesn't add up though |
| 15:44.16 | [MoonWolf] | thats comes out on 204 |
| 15:44.19 | Cairenn | that's only ~$200 |
| 15:44.20 | Wobin_ | Maybe he has more than one account |
| 15:44.32 | End | then....not all 300 euros are lost :P |
| 15:44.41 | Wobin_ | Although he wouldn't get all riled up like that if he did |
| 15:44.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 15:44.43 | End | if he has more than one account |
| 15:44.44 | End | yeah |
| 15:44.45 | End | exactly |
| 15:44.49 | Wobin_ | unless he was irritated on the principle of the matter |
| 15:44.50 | Codayus | Two accounts would do it. Or if he pays for traffic, and is counting the bandwidth WoW consumed. |
| 15:44.51 | Cairenn | or maybe he's full of it |
| 15:45.01 | End | unless, he's trying to just get everyone else riled up |
| 15:45.04 | Codayus | Or he's exaggerating. |
| 15:45.15 | ckknight | I think he's just trying to garner support |
| 15:45.58 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 15:46.03 | End | huh |
| 15:46.11 | End | post on WoW forums: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=7506482&p=1&tmp=1#post7506482 |
| 15:46.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:46.41 | Wobin_ | Although to be honest, I'm not sure how much Blizzard logs |
| 15:46.51 | Wobin_ | Cause there's a hell of a lot of people to log |
| 15:47.08 | Wobin_ | (and what they log) |
| 15:47.22 | Cairenn | holy ... |
| 15:47.32 | Cairenn | it really *is* on the front page of slashdot |
| 15:47.51 | Wobin_ | wow |
| 15:47.54 | Wobin_ | 3000 hours |
| 15:48.00 | Wobin_ | for two characters to 60 |
| 15:48.07 | [MoonWolf] | that is possible |
| 15:48.10 | Codayus | If his story is roughly true, it annoys me because there are so many other people much more deserving of a ban... |
| 15:48.21 | Wobin_ | ~3000 / 24 |
| 15:48.22 | purl | 125 |
| 15:48.22 | End | 125 days? |
| 15:48.26 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 15:48.38 | Wobin_ | ~3000 / 24 / 7 |
| 15:48.39 | purl | 17.857142857143 |
| 15:48.55 | Wobin_ | ~botsnack |
| 15:48.55 | purl | aw, gee, Wobin_ |
| 15:49.01 | End | ~moo |
| 15:49.02 | purl | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ |
| 15:49.02 | Codayus | That's pretty impressive. I'll provisionally assume he was dual boxing in that case though...makesall his numbers make more sense. |
| 15:49.29 | krka|work | i pay about €25 for two months... that's €150 a year....add the base cost of €50, and four more months |
| 15:50.07 | [MoonWolf] | yeah |
| 15:50.11 | End | did the collector's edition come in europe too? that'd be a little more expensive if that was the case. |
| 15:50.18 | End | er, come out |
| 15:50.21 | [MoonWolf] | it did. |
| 15:50.37 | [MoonWolf] | but calculating 12 euro a month and 60 euro for the game |
| 15:50.42 | [MoonWolf] | gets you nowhere near 300 |
| 15:50.55 | End | yeah |
| 15:50.59 | [MoonWolf] | and then im adding a month more then needed aswell. |
| 15:51.52 | Tain | heh heh poor poor botter gets no sympathy. |
| 15:52.07 | Shouryuu | Wow realesed in europe like 4-5 month after it did in the US |
| 15:52.30 | Shouryuu | so it's been a *tad* more than a year |
| 15:52.51 | End | well, he admitted to using a programmable keyboard, which as we know, is a no-no |
| 15:52.57 | Codayus | End: It is? |
| 15:52.57 | [MoonWolf] | still doesnt add up to 300 |
| 15:53.05 | Legorol | using a programmable keyboard is allowed |
| 15:53.13 | Legorol | Blizzard, for now, allowed G15 |
| 15:53.16 | End | it is allowed? |
| 15:53.18 | Codayus | Sure. |
| 15:53.20 | Tain | Oh Christ who the f cares about the 300. |
| 15:53.20 | Shouryuu | yeah I know moon, just backing up the point :P |
| 15:53.23 | Legorol | official confirmation on EU forums |
| 15:53.26 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 15:53.26 | krka|work | so what exactly did he get banned for? |
| 15:53.32 | Shouryuu | god knows |
| 15:53.33 | Tain | Of course the G15 is fine. |
| 15:53.34 | krka|work | using wine? using programmable keyboard? not responding? |
| 15:53.43 | Legorol | probably that he was paying very little attention to the game, and just button mashing whilst watching TV |
| 15:53.47 | Legorol | so he looked very botlike |
| 15:53.52 | Tain | Using hardware programmed macros that you can't use in the game without it is not. |
| 15:53.54 | Legorol | it's probably a combination of factors |
| 15:54.05 | Cairenn | it's just like all the others that get posted "my brothers uncles friends cousin twice removed on my mothers fathers side got banned for using a ui, there was no third party hacking going on, mean nasty blizzard ruined my life" |
| 15:54.06 | Legorol | Tain: that's not my understanding |
| 15:54.13 | Codayus | krka|work: Who knows. He was "boting" according to what he says Bliz told him, and that's it. A ban seems...difficult to justify if (big if) his story is roughly accurate. |
| 15:54.18 | Tain | It is the case, Legoral. |
| 15:54.19 | Legorol | Cairenn: i don't think it's exactly like that |
| 15:54.35 | Legorol | i am giving him the benefit of the doubt |
| 15:54.48 | Legorol | the thign that worries me is not if his story is true or not |
| 15:54.51 | [MoonWolf] | it is, acting like a bot, not responding to gm for extended perdiod of time. |
| 15:54.51 | Legorol | but that it *could* be |
| 15:54.54 | Tain | Create a macro that does multiple keypresses with delays using hardware and use it in WoW and you're violating the ToS. I don't see how that that's even a question. |
| 15:54.59 | krka|work | blizzard seems to handle it very poorly |
| 15:55.08 | krka|work | should clearly state why they ban you |
| 15:55.12 | Shouryuu | i do agree krka |
| 15:55.16 | Legorol | yes |
| 15:55.34 | Tain | I agree krka, but I also see why they don't do it. Although I don't agree with it. |
| 15:55.36 | Legorol | problem is, it gives info to real botters about their decision making/monitoring process |
| 15:55.38 | Codayus | Bliz often handles that stuff poorly. <shrug> Nothing new there. |
| 15:55.44 | Legorol | it's a fine balance between giving and not giving out info |
| 15:55.46 | End | if programmable kayboards are a problem, then I can see why he got banned. if not, then... |
| 15:55.47 | Shouryuu | just not some "a friend's brother said he saw his uncle talking to his dog and said that he had heard is best friends wife say he saw you botting" |
| 15:55.48 | Ratbert_CP | Tain: Even if it's against ToS, it's nearly impossible to detect/prevent except via behavioral analysis... |
| 15:55.48 | Gryphen | agree Legorol |
| 15:56.10 | Wobin_ | It's a fine line between pleasure and pain |
| 15:56.19 | Legorol | Tain, the reason why i think you are wrong is this: |
| 15:56.24 | Legorol | people asked Blizz if G15 is ok |
| 15:56.27 | Tain | Look I've watched people bot for.. well they still are since almost day 1 without getting banned. They don't simply ban you. |
| 15:56.36 | Legorol | now Blizz is not stupid... they stood up and made an official "G15 is ok" response |
| 15:56.45 | Legorol | they know very well that people will take them literally |
| 15:56.49 | Tain | Of course it's ok. Whay wouldn't you be able to use any keyboard youw ant? |
| 15:56.52 | Codayus | What gets me is there's so many OBVIOUS ToS violators around...and this guy gets banned? Bogus. :-/ |
| 15:56.54 | Legorol | they would've said if the use of the macro functions wasn't |
| 15:57.01 | Tain | They have, Legoral. |
| 15:57.05 | Legorol | link? |
| 15:57.09 | Tain | ToS |
| 15:57.15 | Legorol | ehm... |
| 15:57.25 | Legorol | i don't see any bit of the ToS that says you can't program repetitive tasks. |
| 15:57.38 | Tain | Ok, never mind. It's such an obvious non-arguable point I won't take up the banner of arguing for the sake of arguing. |
| 15:57.39 | Legorol | into your keyboard |
| 15:57.41 | Shouryuu | and legoral even if they allowed the G15 it foes *without* saying that you are *not* allowed to violate the ToS or ToU using it |
| 15:57.51 | Legorol | that is true |
| 15:58.06 | Legorol | but the point of contention here is whether programming your G15's buttons *is* a violation of the ToU or not |
| 15:58.28 | Legorol | whilst i think it shouldn't be allowed, I beleive that at the moment, technically, it isn't against the ToU |
| 15:58.53 | Legorol | I don't think that it's in any way different than button mashing and programming a script in-game |
| 15:58.59 | Ratbert_CP | Does it use a third-party progam to manage/execute the hardware macros? If so, it's a violation. If it's hardwired into the keyboard, then there's some soft, squishy areas... |
| 15:59.06 | Tain | Of course there is if your hadware is button mashing for you. |
| 15:59.30 | Legorol | the point i am trying to make is that Blizzard is fully aware of what people meant when they asked if the G15 is OK |
| 15:59.37 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:59.39 | Tain | DAmnit I got sucked in again. Hey look, a 7 ounce Linux wrist-computer with LCD. |
| 15:59.50 | Legorol | lol |
| 15:59.55 | Legorol | anyways, let's drop i |
| 15:59.57 | Legorol | *it |
| 16:00.00 | Legorol | let's agree to disagree |
| 16:00.05 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:00.08 | Tain | "Is it ok if I buy a gun?" "Sure it is!" "Great! No prosecution for using it wrong!" |
| 16:00.10 | Shouryuu | my english teacher always said that |
| 16:00.14 | Legorol | but we all agree i think that Blizz's communication is poor at best, oftentimes |
| 16:00.15 | End | I disagree Legorol, I'm sure to agree with someone here. |
| 16:00.22 | End | so I can't agree to disagree |
| 16:00.27 | Legorol | lol |
| 16:00.48 | Tain | Aww Playstation 3 delay is now officially announced. |
| 16:00.49 | Legorol | ok, i can't resist to counter Tain's analogy |
| 16:00.54 | Shouryuu | nooooo |
| 16:01.11 | Shouryuu | when is XBox 360 comming out? |
| 16:01.17 | Tain | What this really means |
| 16:01.20 | Legorol | Tain, it's only very literal minded, logically thinking people that when asked: "Can I buy a gun?" would answer: "sure, nothing wrong with buying the gun" |
| 16:01.23 | Tain | It already is in the US at least, Shouryuu |
| 16:01.25 | Tain | "Intelligence without character is a dangerous thing." -- G. Steinem |
| 16:01.27 | Legorol | without adding: "but you can't use it to shoot people" |
| 16:01.40 | Legorol | look, most people here are literal minded, logical, analyst type people |
| 16:01.45 | Tain | Why? There's already an existing rule about that, why would you have to add that? |
| 16:01.50 | Legorol | the vast majority of players though is ordinary people with common sense |
| 16:01.53 | Legorol | Blizzard knows that |
| 16:02.01 | Legorol | they will not just say "sure you can buy a gun" |
| 16:02.02 | Shouryuu | the problem is Blizzard aren't as clear with what is allowed and what isn't as the US law is |
| 16:02.19 | End | are you sure the US law is entirely clear? |
| 16:02.20 | Legorol | Tain: you would have to add that because normal people don't think the way you do |
| 16:02.25 | Shouryuu | end - lol |
| 16:02.29 | Tain | See I disagree. I think Blizzard is very clear on what's allowed, and it's the plyers who want to push the issue to get any little advantage they can. |
| 16:02.46 | Legorol | ok i think this is the point where i really drop it |
| 16:02.53 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:02.59 | Tain | And then are somehow surprised when they're banned for doing things they know are not allowed simply because there's no list of specific things you can't do. |
| 16:03.04 | Legorol | otherwise i'll be here for the next hour and i have some AH scanning to do |
| 16:03.24 | Legorol | at least this conversation lasted long enough for my Auctioneer scan to finish |
| 16:03.36 | Codayus | Bliz also doesn't always follow their procedures right. According to their rules, as I understand them, he should have been suspended, not had his account closed... |
| 16:03.49 | Legorol | (btw, I think that using Auctioneer to scan the AH then putting stuff up shouldn't be allowd, but hey, everyone's doing it and Blizz don't seem to mind) |
| 16:04.17 | End | Codayus, I agree, in general Blizzard employees don't seem to have a very good grasp on policy |
| 16:05.49 | Tain | Wow this is funny and disturbing. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/basketball_pran.html |
| 16:06.14 | Tain | People made up a fake girl to flirt with a college basketball player online, and then chanted her name during the game to mess him up. |
| 16:08.31 | zeeg | http://davidcramer.net/projects/buttons/button.php?buttonSize=1&borderSize=0&leftText=w3c&rightText=xhtml&rightBG=%23FFA0FF&leftBG=%23FFFFFF&rightColor=%23FF00FF&leftColor=%23FF00FF&buttonBG=%23FFFFFF&borderBG=%23FF00FF&divAlign=1&leftAlign=3&rightAlign=3&fontFamily= |
| 16:08.33 | zeeg | does that look centered? |
| 16:09.54 | Legorol | nope, it's all the way on the top left of my IE window |
| 16:10.02 | Cairenn | same, in FF |
| 16:10.25 | Legorol | it's not anywhere near the center of my screen |
| 16:10.31 | Legorol | especially if i move my browser window around |
| 16:10.33 | Legorol | it moves with it |
| 16:10.57 | End | well, it's just a small image, isn't it? |
| 16:11.09 | zeeg | i meant the image.. |
| 16:11.16 | zeeg | the text ont he right |
| 16:11.29 | Legorol | what about it |
| 16:11.37 | Legorol | the image is in the top left corner of the browser window |
| 16:11.45 | zeeg | adfjadskl |
| 16:11.46 | zeeg | nevermind |
| 16:11.59 | Cairenn | lol |
| 16:12.00 | Legorol | if you ask "is this centered"? |
| 16:12.05 | zeeg | its a generated image |
| 16:12.11 | Legorol | you have to specify what object is supposed to be in the center of what other object |
| 16:12.15 | zeeg | everyone else was able to figure out what I meant |
| 16:12.15 | zeeg | :p |
| 16:12.17 | Legorol | otherwise your question doesn't make sense |
| 16:12.17 | Cairenn | yes zeeg, the text does appear to be centered in the box |
| 16:12.32 | Legorol | zeeg, i was just point out your question was ambiguous and sloppy |
| 16:12.36 | Legorol | *pointing |
| 16:12.36 | zeeg | ok so i have to fix border size and padding and it's revisions are good to go :P |
| 16:12.37 | zeeg | http://davidcramer.net/projects/buttons/ |
| 16:12.52 | Cairenn | but you really do need to learn to be more specific in your questions |
| 16:13.11 | Legorol | if you expect help from any of us here, the least you can do is ask properly |
| 16:13.17 | Legorol | you are lazy? |
| 16:13.25 | Legorol | and you expect us to spend our time and effort trying to mind-read you? |
| 16:13.43 | Cairenn | GIGO |
| 16:14.08 | Legorol | gigo? |
| 16:14.24 | Cairenn | Garbage In, Garbage Out |
| 16:14.26 | zeeg | Legorol, you spent more time criticizing how i asked the question then it would have taken to figure out what the question was |
| 16:14.31 | zeeg | *than |
| 16:14.34 | zeeg | anyways |
| 16:14.48 | Legorol | not true, because it would've taken me infinitely long to figure out what you meant, since you lacked information |
| 16:15.02 | Legorol | and my priority anyway is not to figure out what you mean |
| 16:15.02 | End | not really |
| 16:15.07 | Legorol | but to hang here and chat |
| 16:15.31 | End | well, you had to realize it was an image |
| 16:15.54 | End | (which it seemed pretty obvious to me, but I'm not sure -why- it was obvious) |
| 16:15.54 | Cairenn | okay, enough |
| 16:15.59 | Cairenn | everyone take five |
| 16:16.04 | End | five what? |
| 16:16.06 | End | five dolla? |
| 16:16.18 | Cairenn | me luv you loooong time sailor |
| 16:16.41 | zeeg | bah |
| 16:16.45 | zeeg | i need to plan this out before i go any farther |
| 16:16.48 | Tain | No new bugs posted on my portal! |
| 16:16.55 | Cairenn | :) |
| 16:17.41 | End | noone seems to know my portal exists >:P |
| 16:18.41 | Tain | You should go to other sites and spam their forums and PM members with it. |
| 16:19.00 | Cairenn | NO |
| 16:19.03 | End | YES |
| 16:19.06 | End | I LIKE THIS IDEA. |
| 16:19.09 | Cairenn | seriously, don't |
| 16:19.14 | Cairenn | that is tacky tacky tacky |
| 16:19.15 | End | oh, I wasn't going to |
| 16:19.20 | zeeg | time to go rip a fuse out of my shiny new car so itll stop beeping at me :P |
| 16:19.34 | zeeg | ya seriously dont |
| 16:19.40 | zeeg | because if that started happening on wowguru for example |
| 16:19.42 | zeeg | id have to filter that url |
| 16:19.47 | zeeg | which id rather not |
| 16:19.53 | zeeg | already got enough spammers :\ |
| 16:20.08 | zeeg | anyways afk |
| 16:20.13 | End | that |
| 16:20.15 | End | er |
| 16:20.15 | Cairenn | zeeg: it was in reference to one of the new sites, that is doing that |
| 16:20.21 | End | that's what irc is for |
| 16:20.24 | End | afking |
| 16:20.40 | End | there was a channel on efnet I think devoted to idling |
| 16:20.55 | End | you'd gain levels and crap like that...just for being on the channel and being idle |
| 16:21.05 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 16:21.45 | Maldivia | End: ohh, they're running IdleQuest in that channel ? |
| 16:21.55 | Tain | Yay ProgressQuest! |
| 16:22.25 | Maldivia | ProgressQuest... the most innovative RPG to date... |
| 16:22.27 | End | Maldivia, I never participated, but I heard about it |
| 16:22.32 | JoshBorke | it's actually #g7 on slashnet i believe |
| 16:22.37 | JoshBorke | i'm level 57 :-D |
| 16:22.51 | Maldivia | hmm, I think I have a detected BitchX running somewhree :) |
| 16:22.55 | JoshBorke | Maldivia: progressquest is the best game ever :-D |
| 16:23.13 | End | I went over a week idle in this channel once |
| 16:23.15 | Maldivia | detatched| |
| 16:23.34 | End | I think I was End-class or End-sleep the entire time too |
| 16:24.07 | Wobin_ | Going to the Killing Fields |
| 16:24.11 | Wobin_ | Fetch Me A Pint |
| 16:24.17 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:24.19 | Wobin_ | It revolutionised roleplaying =) |
| 16:24.35 | Wobin_ | I now know every single quest in WoW can be boiled down to "Fetch me a Pint" |
| 16:24.55 | Wobin_ | Or perhaps "Kill Me A Pint" |
| 16:25.33 | zeeg | theres about 500000 of those idle rpg channels |
| 16:25.46 | Tain | OH yeah, well EQ2 has a quest to fetch sword-chucks for someone. |
| 16:26.24 | Wobin_ | sword chucks are more of an 8bit theatre thing though? |
| 16:26.54 | Tain | Yes, but it was great that they got in there to me. |
| 16:26.56 | Tain | Nice little nod. |
| 16:27.21 | zeeg | hrm |
| 16:27.37 | zeeg | if i disable the stupid seat belt light then I disable the airbag disabled light too |
| 16:27.59 | Tain | Maybe #auto-repair |
| 16:28.12 | zeeg | maybe not |
| 16:32.47 | Cairenn|afk | back in a bit ... no killing each other while I'm gone (I'd hate to miss the show :p) |
| 16:34.03 | End | because I'm too lazy to single anyone out |
| 16:34.40 | Tain | ~rlart |
| 16:37.17 | Shouryuu | man my internet is killing me again |
| 16:37.30 | zeeg | DIE ALL |
| 16:37.35 | Shouryuu | bully |
| 16:38.00 | Shouryuu | Run away, run away! |
| 16:38.50 | Shouryuu | how do I check if someone else is connected to my wireless? |
| 16:38.54 | Wobin_ | Brave Brave Shouryuu, so bravely ran away |
| 16:39.00 | Wobin_ | Check the router |
| 16:39.08 | Wobin_ | It should have a list of connected devices |
| 16:39.12 | Shouryuu | aye thanks |
| 16:39.15 | Shouryuu | and cool song :P |
| 16:39.20 | Wobin_ | usually 192.168.1.1 (or 0.1) |
| 16:39.36 | Wobin_ | It scans too! =) |
| 16:39.42 | Shouryuu | :P |
| 16:39.43 | Wobin_ | (the song that is) |
| 16:41.11 | Shouryuu | I can't even get google to load 0_o |
| 16:42.13 | Shouryuu | really really hard |
| 16:43.15 | End | don't cry really really hard. just kinda hard. |
| 16:44.21 | zeeg | Suburbanhell was recently banned from this forum for posting about a public service for the entire guru network, not just for the City of Heroes section of the site. Guru radio is an online radio service for all who wish to listen to it. It is mainly designed for users of the Guru forums. |
| 16:44.22 | zeeg | His banning was completely uncalled for, and I can see absolutely nothing wrong with him advertising a public service for all Guru users on one of the Guru message boards. |
| 16:44.22 | zeeg | The hard line is a legitimate adminstrative tactic on a message board. Sadly, you have to have mastered the art of not being a complete tool before you decide to take the Nazi approach to message board moderation. |
| 16:44.22 | zeeg | I would appreciate it if you would refrain from banning members of the Guru Staff in future, and unblock my Admin team member. Banning members of your own staff is counter productive, I'm sure you'll agree. |
| 16:44.27 | zeeg | does this sound like an apology to you? |
| 16:44.30 | zeeg | or should i ban this spammer too |
| 16:44.37 | zeeg | "Guru staff", hahaha |
| 16:44.46 | zeeg | anyone who buys a domain with guru in it doesnt make them staff *shakes head* |
| 16:44.48 | Tain | pastebin |
| 16:44.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Verlaine (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:46.16 | Shouryuu | I wanted to say "bangs his head really really hard" but taht would've sounded redundant |
| 16:47.22 | End | not really really hard, just kinda hard |
| 16:53.30 | zeeg | *wow* |
| 16:53.35 | zeeg | they did it again |
| 16:53.41 | zeeg | now im probably a super nazi or something |
| 17:03.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 17:09.30 | Legorol^ | hiya |
| 17:09.37 | Legorol^ | is anyone around who can help me for a minute? |
| 17:09.46 | Legorol^ | i'd need someone to try a short macro in-game |
| 17:10.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce5.disney.com) |
| 17:10.45 | Qzot|atwork | Buenas dias. |
| 17:15.46 | JoshBorke | hola |
| 17:42.25 | Ktron|sleep | Legorol, perhaps, what do you need? |
| 17:43.04 | Ktron|sleep | maybe I was too slow to get to my computer to help Legorol^... |
| 17:44.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:50.13 | Ktron | If I was going to pick out a new keyboard and mouse, any suggestions? I have a good idea of what requirements I have, but it's nice to hear what people use/like |
| 17:50.18 | Ktron | and dislike |
| 17:58.24 | Tain | My current personal favorite mouse is the Logitech MX 1000. |
| 17:58.32 | Legorol^ | Ktron: could you try this: http://wow.pastebin.com/603725 |
| 17:58.45 | Legorol^ | replace <somespell> by a spell you can actually cast ;-) |
| 17:58.48 | Ktron | Probably |
| 17:58.53 | Legorol^ | put it in a macro, and run the macro |
| 17:58.57 | Legorol^ | i'd like to see if it works |
| 17:59.00 | Legorol^ | thanks |
| 17:59.34 | Ktron | we'll see if Blink works heh |
| 17:59.46 | Tain | I'm also a fan of the G15 keyboard. :) But barring that I'd go for one of these: http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html |
| 18:00.24 | Ktron | it the MX 1000 the high dpi mouse? |
| 18:00.38 | Ktron | s/it/is/ |
| 18:01.25 | Tain | Haven't seen a difference in dpi mice for 3-4 years |
| 18:01.31 | Tain | Marketting to me these days. |
| 18:01.45 | Ktron | Legorol, it didn't give me an error, and I did cast blink... is there more its supposed to do? |
| 18:01.48 | Tain | s/in dpi mice/in dpi in mice/ |
| 18:02.21 | Ktron | I can feel the difference between 200-300 dpi and 2000-3000 dpi |
| 18:03.37 | Tain | Ok fine then, I haven't bought a $5 mouse in 3-4 years. |
| 18:04.15 | Ktron | I haven't bought any mice in 3-4 years |
| 18:04.53 | Ktron | I'm using the same keyboard and mouse that I had... yeah, about 4 years ago... Logitech Cordless Comfort Duo |
| 18:05.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 18:07.11 | Shouryuu | does /console reloadui reset all in-game variables? |
| 18:07.44 | ckknight | it's like if you logout then log back in |
| 18:08.09 | Shouryuu | so it saves variables and delete those that shouldn |
| 18:08.11 | Shouryuu | t be saved |
| 18:11.29 | Miravlix | It's not like you logout and login, but it does save variables |
| 18:11.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:11.40 | Miravlix | For one thing different events fires on reload than login |
| 18:11.56 | Miravlix | Toc isn't re-read with /reload |
| 18:12.16 | Miravlix | It's only done after you type in your password |
| 18:12.22 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 18:13.17 | Shouryuu | was more looking for the variable side of the reload but thanks for the clarification :P |
| 18:13.46 | Ktron | Legorol, let me know if there's anythign else |
| 18:16.34 | Legorol^ | Ktron: you say it did cast blink? |
| 18:16.41 | Ktron | yep |
| 18:16.45 | Legorol^ | excellent, thanks very much |
| 18:17.06 | Legorol^ | that's all i needed |
| 18:19.19 | Miravlix | Seems my computer and the EU login server has an issue talking to each other. |
| 18:19.47 | Kirov | Must be french. French don't like talking to most other people. |
| 18:27.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 18:27.28 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge is Mod Dev Discussions: Keep smiling! It makes people wonder what you are up to... |
| 18:27.41 | Shouryuu | cool thanks |
| 18:32.45 | Shouryuu | how can line 9 of this code http://pastebin.com/603872 return the following error: "attempt to concatenate field '?'(a nil value)" |
| 18:33.26 | Shouryuu | if Namestable[index] is nil? |
| 18:33.55 | Shouryuu | but then shouldn't the error be triggered on line 6? |
| 18:38.19 | Kirov | shouldn't the if NamesTable check be outside of the loop? |
| 18:38.41 | Kirov | Wouldn't be causing the issue, just a minor optimization |
| 18:39.55 | Qzot|atwork | Which line? Line 9 or line 6? |
| 18:40.19 | Kirov | line 6 would make sense, but would it nil out a value if it was unable to concatenate? |
| 18:42.21 | Kirov | If it failed to concatenate on line 6 you'd still be left with the original value. |
| 18:43.03 | Qzot|atwork | If NamesTable[index] is nil, it would fail with an "attempt to contatenate field '?'(a nil value)" error. :P |
| 18:43.20 | Qzot|atwork | On line 6. I'm wondering to which line the error refers. |
| 18:43.28 | Kirov | line 9 |
| 18:44.17 | Kirov | Worse case the string should at least be " " |
| 18:44.42 | Qzot|atwork | Three ideas (meaning I don't know what's going on): |
| 18:45.15 | Qzot|atwork | (1) replace Names[index] in line 6 with (Names[index] or 'foo') |
| 18:45.49 | Qzot|atwork | (2) replace "\n\n\n" on line 6 with "blah" or with "\n \n \n " |
| 18:46.19 | Qzot|atwork | (3) On line 9, change namestoadd to "foo". |
| 18:46.28 | Qzot|atwork | That should help pinpoint where the problem is. |
| 18:46.36 | Shouryuu | ok thanks |
| 18:46.56 | Qzot|atwork | One at a time, obviously, not all at once. |
| 18:47.03 | Shouryuu | yeah I guessed =P |
| 18:47.17 | Qzot|atwork | Bye, Cairenn. |
| 18:47.24 | Cairenn|afk | later |
| 19:06.01 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 19:06.54 | kremonte | i love getting progress reports |
| 19:07.02 | kremonte | A+ A+ A F F A+ A |
| 19:07.14 | kremonte | so, hows the 'noon treatin' y'all? |
| 19:13.21 | End | well, it is quite noonish |
| 19:16.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=neffa@203-184-54-95.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 19:17.05 | kremonte | dooodooo |
| 19:17.11 | kremonte | there are some very wacky enchants |
| 19:17.18 | kremonte | [2611] = "REUSE Random - 15 Spells All", |
| 19:17.28 | End | heheh |
| 19:17.28 | kremonte | [2603] = "Eternium Line",[1743] = "MHTest02", |
| 19:17.49 | End | isn't Eternium line actually used for something? |
| 19:18.03 | kremonte | sounds too ooky dooky! |
| 19:18.07 | kremonte | [2039] = "Block Level 66", |
| 19:18.08 | End | for fishing I think |
| 19:18.14 | kremonte | [1543] = "INT/SPI/MANA/FR +10/10/100/15",[1532] = "STR/STA/AC/FR +10/10/110/15", |
| 19:18.41 | End | for the fishing contest: http://thottbot.com/?i=51854 |
| 19:18.58 | kremonte | o_O |
| 19:19.04 | kremonte | werd |
| 19:19.13 | kremonte | blizzard sucks >< |
| 19:19.25 | kremonte | i got my pirate hat a loooong time ago, but now that i did,i can't.. |
| 19:19.33 | kremonte | get arcanite fishing pole, do fishing contest at all |
| 19:19.38 | kremonte | get tier .5 sets |
| 19:19.40 | End | well, you could |
| 19:19.46 | kremonte | End |
| 19:19.49 | kremonte | i could |
| 19:19.57 | End | have fun grinding rep in other direction now! :P |
| 19:19.58 | kremonte | make a new character, get to 60, get all the gear i have now, and twice the gold i have |
| 19:20.06 | kremonte | in the time i get that rep bacl. |
| 19:20.46 | kremonte | if i grind on pirates, that's 45000 pirates to kill |
| 19:20.55 | End | I hate to see what trouble you'll go through if Undermine becomes a place you can go to |
| 19:21.16 | kremonte | huh? |
| 19:21.21 | kremonte | what is undermine :< |
| 19:21.31 | Adrine | Goblin hometown. |
| 19:21.32 | End | goblin homeland |
| 19:21.36 | kremonte | oh |
| 19:21.40 | kremonte | i'd kill all of them, of course |
| 19:22.02 | Qzot|atwork | Home of Great Clam Chowder |
| 19:22.14 | kremonte | End: it's not that i really want to |
| 19:22.33 | kremonte | i don't fish for money, just to get deviate fish pretty much |
| 19:22.43 | kremonte | i have almost full nemesis set, so i don't need tier .5 |
| 19:22.55 | kremonte | and i don't need the patterns and whatnot from gadget, i'm not a tailor |
| 19:23.12 | kremonte | my point is, blizzard just said "hey, they found this really nice, rare easter egg |
| 19:23.14 | kremonte | let's fuck them now!" |
| 19:23.56 | End | heh |
| 19:24.14 | End | I thought it was stupid to go for -before- they added more goblin related things |
| 19:24.25 | Adrine | Ditto, End |
| 19:24.36 | kremonte | eh? when i got mine, BB was just a levelling place. same with other stuff |
| 19:24.52 | kremonte | 3 people in my guild got the hat |
| 19:25.05 | Adrine | I'd love the pirate hat, but I'm not willing to spend the time to get the gobs to stop beating on me :) |
| 19:25.23 | kremonte | hehe, they don't really beat on me :d |
| 19:25.23 | End | well, a friend of mine got himself hated with gadgetzan, and he has loads of fun whenever he tries to go to silithus |
| 19:25.35 | kremonte | i am unfriendly with gadget |
| 19:25.44 | kremonte | that was after 4 months of grinding |
| 19:25.47 | End | he is still only hostile with the bloodsail pirates |
| 19:26.00 | kremonte | yup |
| 19:26.10 | kremonte | 125 BB rep for every 1 rep with bloodsail |
| 19:26.55 | Kirov | We have two a couple rogues who are hated with various factions. |
| 19:27.09 | Kirov | er, cross out two |
| 19:27.13 | kremonte | i like getting hated with stuff after it's useful |
| 19:27.21 | kremonte | but uh |
| 19:27.32 | kremonte | getting screwed out of unique stuff before it's added with no warning |
| 19:27.36 | kremonte | no, no ty |
| 19:28.19 | Kirov | One rogue spent a ton of time killing guards in Cenarian hold to the point where he was super hated by them. |
| 19:28.31 | End | haha |
| 19:28.53 | Kirov | When AQ opened he suddenly went "Oh, maybe that was a bad idea" |
| 19:29.06 | kremonte | personally |
| 19:29.10 | Kirov | He's spent the last month getting back to neutral |
| 19:29.15 | kremonte | i'd do that too if not for needing rep items |
| 19:29.51 | End | do guards still cause the 10% loss in durability? |
| 19:30.03 | Tain | That's what reputation is for. If you go around commiting genocide on some people just because there's nothing that they currently offer don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ass. |
| 19:30.12 | kremonte | tain |
| 19:30.16 | kremonte | that's NOT why |
| 19:30.23 | kremonte | "genocide on some people just because there's nothing that they currently offer" |
| 19:30.31 | kremonte | i did it for a reason. to get my Bloodsail Admiral's Hat |
| 19:31.13 | kremonte | plus, i wouldn't do that at CH for that reason either. i would because neutral guards are worthless gimmicks, only there to cause innocent bystanders repair costs |
| 19:31.15 | Tain | Now there's something else you want that you need the faction back for? |
| 19:31.22 | kremonte | no |
| 19:31.27 | kremonte | i'm saying it's stupid |
| 19:31.40 | kremonte | if anything, add the hat after they add fishing contests |
| 19:31.48 | kremonte | there was none, no reason at all for BB rep |
| 19:32.07 | kremonte | i can't count on my fingers how many times CH guards have killed me from cleave when i'm summoning people for aq |
| 19:32.07 | Tain | Ah ok, I see your point but still disagree strongly with it. |
| 19:32.22 | kremonte | what, that i went and got an item, then got fucked? |
| 19:32.30 | kremonte | that's like shooting someone before they steal from you |
| 19:32.36 | Tain | Yeah. You made the choice to lower the rep to get an item. |
| 19:32.47 | kremonte | okay tain |
| 19:32.54 | kremonte | i see a shady figure wearing black in my store |
| 19:32.54 | Tain | That's what it's there for. |
| 19:32.59 | kremonte | do i shoot him because he might steal from me? |
| 19:33.07 | ckknight | no |
| 19:33.11 | ckknight | you follow him around with a mop |
| 19:33.16 | kremonte | lol |
| 19:33.22 | ckknight | making sure he doesn't steal |
| 19:33.25 | ckknight | ...hooligan |
| 19:33.26 | Kirov | Goblins already offer a significant service |
| 19:33.30 | Ktron|SM | Better example-- you beat up nerds at school, because they suck... Then one of them turns out to be your boss |
| 19:33.32 | kremonte | what is that service? |
| 19:33.35 | Ktron|SM | sucks to be you, your fault |
| 19:33.36 | Tain | Does the shady figure have a hat? |
| 19:33.36 | Kirov | They control 3 major towns in the game |
| 19:33.53 | kremonte | Ktron|SM: no, |
| 19:34.01 | kremonte | because that group offers nothing new afterwards |
| 19:34.13 | kremonte | Kirov: major? |
| 19:34.14 | Kirov | That alone should of been enough reason to know before hand it was bad to go for the hat. |
| 19:34.26 | kremonte | BB, only reason is to get to ratchet. i can fly from IF to theramore just as fast, if not faster |
| 19:34.26 | Ktron|SM | You chose to have enemies, and then it turned out to be a mistake |
| 19:34.29 | Ktron|SM | you lose, your fault |
| 19:34.31 | Tain | It's just sour grapes thinking to me. |
| 19:34.32 | kremonte | Gadget, i can port there naked |
| 19:34.47 | kremonte | Ktron|SM: beating up nerds offers what reward? |
| 19:35.00 | Tain | You ruined reputation to get an item, and now you're upset about it. That's part of the prerequesite of getting the item, you knew what you were doing. |
| 19:35.03 | Ktron|SM | idk, maybe lunch money |
| 19:35.05 | Adrine | Really, if you chose to spend time slaughtering goblins when you know they control various valuable resources, it's your own fault. |
| 19:35.07 | Kirov | Gadgetzen, Wintersping one, and Booty Bay |
| 19:35.19 | End | Everlook is the Winterspring one |
| 19:35.25 | kremonte | Adrine: there were 0 valuable resources |
| 19:35.27 | End | they control the neutral AH |
| 19:35.32 | kremonte | dont care about that |
| 19:35.41 | Adrine | The control the neutral AH, various quests, and several major transportation hubs |
| 19:35.44 | Adrine | Those are valuable resources |
| 19:35.48 | Tain | Ok, let's clarify. What exactly are you upset about then? |
| 19:35.55 | Adrine | And just because they get new resources isn't really a valid reason to get upset |
| 19:36.04 | kremonte | Tain: that they offered a reward for killing goblins but none for not |
| 19:36.06 | kremonte | then decided to later. |
| 19:36.14 | Adrine | You had the rewards for not killing them by default |
| 19:36.19 | kremonte | if it was a 1:1 rep ratio i would not care |
| 19:36.24 | Adrine | ie, they don't kill you. :P |
| 19:36.24 | kremonte | i get 25 bs rep per goblin |
| 19:36.31 | kremonte | i get 1 bb rep per pirate. |
| 19:36.34 | Tain | heh I... can't even make that make sense. |
| 19:36.36 | kremonte | Adrine: they don't kill me now |
| 19:37.07 | kremonte | they only killed me when hunters were attacking me from rooftops and i retaliated. |
| 19:37.09 | Ktron|SM | there's guys who get you 5 bb rep each |
| 19:37.15 | kremonte | so really, isn't /that/ reason to kill them? |
| 19:37.17 | Ktron|SM | I think the venture co goblins do |
| 19:37.38 | Ktron|SM | Simply said krem, people don't feel sorry for you |
| 19:37.41 | kremonte | not for me at 60 eh |
| 19:37.48 | kremonte | Ktron|SM: i don't care...? |
| 19:37.53 | kremonte | i don't care about sorrow |
| 19:38.02 | kremonte | i'm just saying it's unfair |
| 19:38.11 | Ktron|RFC | we disagree |
| 19:38.12 | Tain | And everyone else is saying it isn't unfair. |
| 19:38.20 | Tain | However! |
| 19:38.23 | kremonte | again, you are looking at it from the other perspective |
| 19:38.27 | Tain | Even if it is unfair, that's the way it works. |
| 19:38.29 | krka | probably faster to level up a new char than trying to get rep back |
| 19:38.30 | Tain | Life isn't fair. |
| 19:38.36 | kremonte | Tain: this isn't life |
| 19:38.51 | Tain | Really? The way your'e carrying on about it it seems like it must be life-threatening. |
| 19:38.54 | kremonte | krka: that's what i said, i could get a new toon from 0 to 60 and get all the gear i have |
| 19:39.01 | kremonte | to you, sure. whatever |
| 19:40.11 | kremonte | Tain: but i never said it was. i never carried on as it was. you see things one way, i see them another; i never asked for an argument, but now you and multiple others are carrying on with me making it seem like BB was some haven of amazing rewards - which it wasn't, but now is. |
| 19:40.30 | Tain | It has nothing to do with the rewards. |
| 19:40.57 | krka | the entire game is about rewards :P |
| 19:41.00 | kremonte | i don't think many people would be happy if suddenly there were a new faction, and for every mob you've killed in MC, you lost 300 rep. but this new faction now has rewords twenty-fold of those from MC, and you can get them at neutral |
| 19:41.10 | Tain | You made an choice to do something that lowered your reputation with a group, and now you're calling it unfair. |
| 19:41.25 | kremonte | sigh |
| 19:41.37 | kremonte | i DID NOT DO IT TO LOWER MY REPUTATION |
| 19:41.41 | kremonte | you make it seem like i did |
| 19:41.45 | Tain | Your reputation didn't lower? |
| 19:41.50 | kremonte | you are saying that i killed goblins just because i liked killing goblins |
| 19:41.54 | Tain | No I'm not. |
| 19:41.56 | kremonte | understandy engrish? "i did NOT DO IT TO" |
| 19:41.59 | kremonte | yeah, you are |
| 19:42.03 | kremonte | you are saying that i just hated BB rep |
| 19:42.04 | krka | what if gelkis started selling great soulbound stuff and you decided to befriend kolkar |
| 19:42.05 | Tain | I'm saying that you did something that caused your reputation to lower with them. |
| 19:42.06 | kremonte | and wanted to get rid it |
| 19:42.16 | Tain | And you know that was an effect of what you were doing. |
| 19:42.21 | kremonte | tain, do you raid MC? |
| 19:42.34 | Ktron|RFC | I'm out of this convos, kremonte doesn't listen to ideas other than his own. |
| 19:42.38 | Tain | Not anymore, I got tired of a fulltime job in a game. |
| 19:42.45 | Adrine | kremonte: Opportunity cost. You evaluated the opportunity cost at the time, determined it was worth it, and paid it. Now, you'd not make that same decision since the opportunity cost is higher, but you've already made it. |
| 19:42.57 | kremonte | Tain: i guess that's why you can't understand :) |
| 19:43.01 | Tain | hah |
| 19:43.03 | Adrine | The change in opportunity cost doesn't mean that you should get your money back, as it were. :) |
| 19:43.04 | Tain | Nice attempt at a cop out. |
| 19:43.07 | krka | can't you answer my hypothetical question? |
| 19:43.22 | kremonte | Ktron|RFC: eh? no, i can't agree with people that play on words to twist things around in their favor constantly |
| 19:43.26 | kremonte | Tain: cop out? no |
| 19:43.29 | Tain | It's very simple. You lowered your reputation with something. Now you want it back and you can't have it. |
| 19:43.34 | Kirov | krka - aparently not |
| 19:43.41 | kremonte | Tain: i was going to make a metaphor, but obviously you can't understand it, because you see raiding as "a fulltime job" |
| 19:43.46 | Tain | It is. |
| 19:43.48 | kremonte | Tain: no, it is NOT |
| 19:43.57 | Kirov | Yes it is |
| 19:43.57 | Tain | Ok, you're right. Part-time job. |
| 19:43.59 | Adrine | Hey guys, I rolled Alliance and I can't get a Kodo for my gnome. :( |
| 19:44.02 | kremonte | Tain: you completely, obliviously, neglect the entire reasoning |
| 19:44.07 | Tain | I never raided 40 hours a week. |
| 19:44.14 | kremonte | part time job? |
| 19:44.19 | kremonte | MC, 3 hours, one day, on a friday night |
| 19:44.29 | kremonte | BWL, four hours, one day, on a saturday night - and it's optional |
| 19:44.30 | Tain | Yeah, 20 hours a week, on schedule, be there or be docked. |
| 19:44.30 | Adrine | Only after your guild has it down. |
| 19:44.36 | Kirov | 5 hours a night, 6 days a week. |
| 19:44.40 | Adrine | MC takes a looong time when you're learning. |
| 19:44.47 | Kirov | sometimes 7 |
| 19:44.51 | kremonte | well then you join the wrong guilds, if you're docked for not going to every MC. |
| 19:44.59 | krka | i don't even have 20 hours of free time per week |
| 19:44.59 | Tain | Which is what some of us were doing a full year ago. Learning MC. |
| 19:45.01 | Adrine | You're not docked directly, but comparatively |
| 19:45.03 | krka | except weekends :P |
| 19:45.16 | Adrine | Your compeition gains a relative DKP advantage for being there when you're not |
| 19:45.34 | Adrine | So there's an implicit penalty in not goin. |
| 19:45.36 | Adrine | going, even. |
| 19:45.41 | Adrine | Just the nature of the beat. |
| 19:45.43 | Adrine | beast, even |
| 19:45.46 | Adrine | I cannot type today! |
| 19:45.55 | Tain | Of course there is. People who don't go as much as others don't get rewarded as much, and that's the way it should be. |
| 19:46.12 | kremonte | but i digress. every single one of you is saying that i just killed goblins - for no reward- and i'm whining and complaining for no end, because i really really want these rewards, and omfg, it's no fair that i can't have them!~ that i killed guards for nothing, and that BB Was some heaven for reward previously. well, you can see it your way, and Ktron|RFC, if i'm the one that can't listen to anyone else, well then i'm afraid you're |
| 19:46.26 | kremonte | all mirroring that. maybe this is a "cop out" as tain so blightly put it. o-kay, whatever you say. |
| 19:46.28 | Tain | kremonte you're not making any sense. |
| 19:46.38 | kremonte | of course! because i don't know english, and i just don't like goblins |
| 19:46.39 | Tain | No one is saying you killed goblins for no reward. |
| 19:46.57 | Tain | IN fact the FIRST THING I SAID was that you killed goblins for a reward and you said it wasn't. |
| 19:46.57 | Adrine | Wow. |
| 19:47.02 | Adrine | Well, ok then. |
| 19:47.11 | Shouryuu | that's one way to stop a conversatin |
| 19:47.13 | Kirov | hmm |
| 19:47.15 | Adrine | *shrug* |
| 19:47.17 | Tain | I wonder if that's how the Harvard debate team wins. |
| 19:47.21 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:47.26 | Kirov | Tain - no, they use money |
| 19:47.33 | Shouryuu | Adrine - that quest is hard |
| 19:47.46 | Adrine | tell me about it |
| 19:47.49 | Adrine | Total full time job |
| 19:47.54 | Adrine | But the rewards are pretty good |
| 19:47.58 | Ktron|RFC | This is like the 4th time kremonte has done something like this |
| 19:48.20 | Adrine | Hey guys, I killed all my co-workers and lowered my rep with my employer |
| 19:48.26 | Adrine | But now they're giving out raises and I don't get one. :( |
| 19:48.34 | Adrine | NOT FAIR |
| 19:48.57 | Shouryuu | well nvm |
| 19:49.06 | Shouryuu | we're not here to point and accuse |
| 19:49.16 | Tain | That's really what it comes down to. I did something, there were consequences, now I don't like it. |
| 19:49.22 | Shouryuu | we all have our reasons I guess |
| 19:49.24 | Tain | I blame you! |
| 19:49.26 | Shouryuu | Oh noez! |
| 19:49.30 | Shouryuu | run away, run away! |
| 19:49.33 | Tain | Gotta blame 'em all. |
| 19:49.34 | Adrine | I just think it's silly. You've given numbers and know what you're doing |
| 19:49.51 | Adrine | So it's not like it's a surprise that hey, the goblins don't like me. |
| 19:49.56 | Ktron|RFC | apparently he didn't ;) |
| 19:50.01 | Shouryuu | why do you *need* goblin rep anyways |
| 19:50.12 | Adrine | Because the goblins are an important go-between faction |
| 19:50.13 | Tain | The secret goblin bordello. |
| 19:50.20 | Ktron|RFC | I think he wants to do the fishing tourney among other things |
| 19:50.35 | Tain | Too bad, he's got the hat for it. |
| 19:50.43 | Kirov | Tain - that's not terribly secret |
| 19:51.29 | Shouryuu | so there isn't anything new in 1.10 that *requiers* goblin rep? |
| 19:51.45 | Adrine | There is. |
| 19:51.54 | End | well, Kremonte mentioned something about the 0.5 sets, but he didn't say much |
| 19:52.12 | Adrine | From what I've gathered, part of the 0.5 set quests involves goblin questgivers |
| 19:52.13 | Ktron|RFC | yeah, he did |
| 19:52.21 | Shouryuu | ok well that does suck |
| 19:52.22 | Ktron|RFC | yeah, that's probably it |
| 19:52.34 | Tain | You don't need to get them. |
| 19:52.43 | Tain | Just like you dont' need to get an Admiral's Hat. |
| 19:52.53 | Ktron|RFC | he said he had most of nemesis anyway too |
| 19:52.54 | Tain | You choose to, then you do what is required of you. |
| 19:52.57 | Shouryuu | but the .5 set quests > hat |
| 19:53.07 | Adrine | If in 1.10, the goblins disconnected you if you were unfriendly, then I'd say he had a point. :) |
| 19:53.13 | End | well, that's like apples and oranges, shouryuu |
| 19:53.20 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:53.29 | Adrine | They're both optional items that provide some utility to the player |
| 19:53.43 | Shouryuu | I guess you're actually right |
| 19:53.43 | Tain | I can understand why people would be upset, but they don't have a legitimate complaint in my opinion. |
| 19:53.58 | Shouryuu | I think they do, *never* did blizz state that they would implement this |
| 19:54.07 | Tain | I think that's irrelevant. |
| 19:54.08 | Shouryuu | a person grinding rep *now* an whinning is an idiot |
| 19:54.20 | Tain | You don't get to know what's to come. |
| 19:54.36 | Adrine | They also didn't state that you could get special rewards from the Bloodsails, so it's not like they trapped people into it |
| 19:54.41 | Tain | "Game experience may change during gameplay" or some such. |
| 19:54.42 | Shouryuu | Can you grinf goblin rep back? |
| 19:54.45 | Adrine | it's an easter egg, really |
| 19:54.51 | Adrine | Yeah, but you have to kill a lot of pirates to do it. |
| 19:54.55 | End | you can indeed get goblin rep back, but have fun :P |
| 19:54.59 | Shouryuu | well that's their fucking problem |
| 19:55.06 | End | if you want 0.5 or fishing stuff bad enough, I'm sure you can do it |
| 19:55.22 | Shouryuu | I thought there was *no* way you could get goblin rep back |
| 19:55.26 | Adrine | No, you can. |
| 19:55.31 | Adrine | It just takes a lot of work |
| 19:55.34 | Adrine | Also, I hate rep grinds :( |
| 19:55.37 | Shouryuu | same |
| 19:55.40 | End | declare war on the bloodsail pirates :P |
| 19:55.44 | Kirov | Blizard never stated that ZG enchants would need libram quest turn ins from Dire Maul. |
| 19:55.45 | End | that's what the first step is |
| 19:55.50 | Adrine | I blew away 5k timbermaw faction in one evening and it just made me completely numb |
| 19:56.03 | End | oh ouch, Adrine |
| 19:56.10 | Kirov | So, anyone who didn't buy librams when they were 2g now get screwed to have to pay 300+ for them |
| 19:56.13 | Adrine | It's not bad with the tribal feathers now |
| 19:56.15 | Adrine | But still. |
| 19:56.19 | Adrine | Just. Ugh. That's not fun. |
| 19:56.28 | Kirov | People don't complain about that though, at least they don't blaim blizzard |
| 19:56.32 | Adrine | And now I need another 6k for that dadgum 15 agi enchant. I don't -need- it, but I'd like to eventually have it. |
| 19:56.58 | End | see, that's an example where a few rewards -WERE- in game already, but they didn't jump out and tell you (and now there is a good number of rewards). |
| 19:57.00 | Shouryuu | kirov - I agree, I just thought you couldn't get goblin rep back... If they grinded rep against Bloodsails well they faces the consequences |
| 19:58.05 | End | I suppose what you have to realize is that the content for this game is unfinished, more is always going to be added, and it's possible more "drastic" actions might have negative consequences later. |
| 19:58.06 | Kirov | Shouryuu, right, but you can, It's just a bitch. |
| 19:58.29 | End | I mean, new content has to fit in -somewhere- |
| 19:58.36 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 19:58.43 | Adrine | End: I was absolutely terrified about having bad "hidden" Brood of Noz rep for having popped the dragons outside of the Caverns of Time some time ago. |
| 19:58.52 | Adrine | Luckily for me, you start at Hated! :) |
| 19:58.55 | End | yeah |
| 19:58.59 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:59.16 | Adrine | Didn't they something ages about about "hidden" factions and the like? |
| 19:59.22 | Adrine | Or am I misremembering? |
| 19:59.26 | Adrine | Like, around beta |
| 19:59.30 | End | well, as Horde, you -have- to kill one of those dragons for onyxia key, and if you help someone with it, you'll lose rep |
| 19:59.30 | Adrine | Not anytime in recent history. |
| 19:59.53 | Adrine | One of the Bronze? I thought you had to kill dragons in Winterspring and Dustwallow |
| 20:00.01 | Shouryuu | and one of those |
| 20:00.06 | Adrine | Huh. |
| 20:00.08 | End | you have to kill 4 dragons, and none are in dustwallow |
| 20:00.25 | End | winterspring, tanaris, swamp of sorrows, and wetlands |
| 20:00.27 | Shouryuu | It's test of skulls |
| 20:00.32 | Adrine | Huh, ok. |
| 20:00.33 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 20:00.37 | Adrine | (Painfully obviously alliance) |
| 20:00.38 | Kirov | the horde ony quest is so mean |
| 20:00.46 | Shouryuu | it's a pain |
| 20:00.48 | Adrine | Man, Jailbreak is the worst quest ever :( |
| 20:00.52 | Adrine | NOBODY wants to do it |
| 20:00.55 | Kirov | Though, Jailbreak ... yeah |
| 20:01.01 | Shouryuu | That's ally? |
| 20:01.03 | End | well, noone wants to do warlord's command either :P |
| 20:01.04 | Adrine | Yeah. |
| 20:01.09 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 20:01.17 | Kirov | Captain Underpants |
| 20:01.31 | Shouryuu | most of my guild isn't Ony Keyed so it's ok but otherwise... |
| 20:01.44 | Shouryuu | finding a group would be hell |
| 20:01.47 | Kirov | It's easy to do once you know you need to clear the entire area before you start the quest |
| 20:01.48 | Adrine | I have a priest that's been 60 for several months now. I still don't have her Ony keyed because nobody wants to even touch BRD :) |
| 20:01.54 | Adrine | We're sharding priest helms now :( |
| 20:01.57 | Kirov | But yeah |
| 20:02.19 | Adrine | It's hilarious. She's going to have Benediction before being Ony keyed. |
| 20:02.33 | End | we had a priest do that |
| 20:02.41 | Adrine | I'm going to do my UBRS blood run with a giant lollypop :D |
| 20:02.44 | Kirov | The Ony quest chain has one part where you have to rescue a guy from BRD. He's annoying as fuck because he wanders in a huge figure eight before he starts spriting for the exit. |
| 20:02.49 | Kirov | Worse, he breaks all CC |
| 20:03.01 | Kirov | if you trap, sheep, sap someone, he runs up and hits them. |
| 20:03.07 | Adrine | And he wanders all over the entirety of the jail area |
| 20:03.11 | Adrine | However, his aura kicks ass. |
| 20:03.16 | Kirov | heh |
| 20:03.19 | Adrine | I think it's...30% haste? |
| 20:03.22 | Kirov | Yeah |
| 20:03.26 | Kirov | That's nice |
| 20:03.36 | End | do mobs spawn when you free him? |
| 20:03.37 | Adrine | 30% haste + SnD + Blade Flurry = rogue machine of death. |
| 20:03.39 | Kirov | Kinda' makes up for his sheep-breaking tactics |
| 20:03.39 | Adrine | It's awesome :D |
| 20:03.42 | Adrine | End: Yeah |
| 20:03.51 | Kirov | End : Yeah, on top of the ones that are already there |
| 20:03.51 | End | that's what I thought |
| 20:04.01 | Adrine | The Rajaxx NPC in AQ20 is the same way. It's awesome. :D |
| 20:04.12 | Kirov | There's one room where there can be 9-10 guys if you don't clear before hand. |
| 20:04.12 | Adrine | Haste auras make me a happy rogue. |
| 20:04.22 | End | actually, horde have a quest where they free a guy in BRD, but noone does that one, since there just isn't any point :P |
| 20:04.31 | End | he's an orc though |
| 20:04.47 | End | and apparently he and the jailbreak guy know (and hate??) each other |
| 20:05.06 | Adrine | I have to say. |
| 20:05.09 | Adrine | Windsor is the man. |
| 20:05.19 | Adrine | Ragged John's quest text is hilarious. |
| 20:13.25 | Ktron|RFC | my favorite quest text is Mudfoot's |
| 20:13.45 | Ktron|RFC | quest name is 'Hungry!' |
| 20:14.19 | Adrine | Hahaha, nice |
| 20:14.42 | Adrine | Best quest name ever? I think so! |
| 20:14.43 | Adrine | http://thottbot.com/?qu=3825 |
| 20:15.38 | Kirov | lol |
| 20:15.53 | Ktron|RFC | nice:) |
| 20:16.18 | Ktron|RFC | http://thottbot.com/?qu=1177 is the mudcrush durtfeet one |
| 20:16.30 | Kirov | why does that make me think |
| 20:16.30 | Kirov | Step 1 - Steal underwear |
| 20:16.31 | Kirov | Step 2 - ??? |
| 20:16.31 | Kirov | Step 3 - Profit! |
| 20:16.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:16.33 | Adrine | You feed Mud or Mud eat you. |
| 20:16.41 | Ktron|RFC | heh |
| 20:16.48 | Adrine | At least he's honest. |
| 20:17.14 | Miravlix | Isn't there a quest titled x + y = pwnage or some sutch |
| 20:17.26 | Adrine | Not that I'm aware of. |
| 20:17.41 | Miravlix | there is I just can't remember what it is now |
| 20:17.50 | Miravlix | It's a pretty cool quest, gnome related |
| 20:18.04 | Adrine | The only solution is more green glow? |
| 20:18.16 | Adrine | Cure, sorry |
| 20:18.23 | Ktron|RFC | if you can guess a word, we can thottbot it... if you scroll up there's the = party one |
| 20:18.29 | Ktron|RFC | no ownage or pwnage found |
| 20:20.55 | Miravlix | Trying to find it in my in game quest history |
| 20:24.19 | Miravlix | The monkey quest in Ungora has some cool titles |
| 20:24.31 | Adrine | It's a secret to everbody! |
| 20:24.34 | Adrine | It's dangerous to go alone. |
| 20:24.53 | Kirov | I love how like half of the Ungoro quests have nintendo undertones |
| 20:25.03 | Kirov | Linkin's sword |
| 20:25.09 | Adrine | Ungoro is the Nintendo zone :P |
| 20:25.11 | Miravlix | Found it |
| 20:25.12 | Miravlix | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:25.20 | Kirov | Muigin and Larion |
| 20:25.23 | Miravlix | Thats just a brilliant quest title |
| 20:25.25 | Adrine | I can see how you can confuse pwnage with fun. :) |
| 20:25.34 | JoshBorke | what event is triggered by "Hamarian begins casting Holy Light"? |
| 20:25.38 | Miravlix | I couldn't remember what it was at all |
| 20:26.00 | JoshBorke | and does it provide rank information? |
| 20:26.11 | Adrine | No rank info, but it's... |
| 20:26.30 | JoshBorke | Adrine: btw, well done with the Sanity mod. very nice |
| 20:26.30 | Adrine | CHAT_MSG_SPELL_FRIENDLYPLAYER_BUFF |
| 20:26.34 | Adrine | Thanks :) |
| 20:26.36 | Miravlix | http://thottbot.com/?qu=1073 |
| 20:26.43 | Adrine | I'm working on a healing parsing mod myself, JoshBorke :) |
| 20:26.47 | JoshBorke | rargH! |
| 20:26.52 | Adrine | It's gonna be awesomesauce. |
| 20:26.54 | JoshBorke | well hurry up and pass it over :-) |
| 20:27.02 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/healcap.jpg |
| 20:27.08 | Adrine | That's the v 0.00000000001 screenshot :D |
| 20:27.15 | JoshBorke | mmmm |
| 20:27.18 | Adrine | (It's a mod to show healing done to you) |
| 20:27.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 20:27.27 | JoshBorke | wasn't that already done? |
| 20:27.42 | Adrine | Was it? I dunno. I tend to wrrite things first and then look and see if they exist later. >_> |
| 20:27.51 | Adrine | But mine is gonna be pretty! |
| 20:28.13 | Adrine | It shows breakdown of who healed you, click on a person to see what spells they used for how much/what percent, click on a spell to see a breakdown of what your health was at when it healed you. |
| 20:28.19 | Maldivia | hmm |
| 20:28.28 | JoshBorke | http://evilempireguild.org/ui/ |
| 20:28.34 | Miravlix | Pretty beats usefull any day of the week, except thurday between 6 and 7 |
| 20:28.46 | Adrine | Well now, don't I feel silly. :P |
| 20:28.54 | Kirov | hehe |
| 20:28.55 | JoshBorke | :D |
| 20:29.01 | Adrine | Mine will be pretty though! |
| 20:29.01 | JoshBorke | just trying to help ya out :-) |
| 20:29.04 | JoshBorke | exactly! |
| 20:29.10 | Kirov | I need to work on my aggro mod |
| 20:29.20 | Adrine | Threatmeters drive me nuts trying to work out |
| 20:29.26 | Adrine | There are so many modifiers to take into account. |
| 20:29.32 | Kirov | Yeah |
| 20:29.40 | Kirov | It's all a ton of guess work, lots of special casing |
| 20:29.42 | Maldivia | am I the only one getting a bit annoyed with the "Macro chanllange" thread ? :) |
| 20:29.54 | Miravlix | Link? |
| 20:29.56 | Kirov | Maldivia - yes |
| 20:30.17 | Maldivia | Kirov: hehe, good to know :) |
| 20:30.18 | Adrine | Hahahahah |
| 20:30.20 | Adrine | Wow |
| 20:30.25 | Adrine | That's a class-A thread right there. |
| 20:31.04 | Kirov | I'm surprised it continued. The poster was super rude at the start and basically just wanted someone to write them the macro they wanted with out having to ask for it. |
| 20:31.15 | Adrine | "if my hp is below the 50% mark and i have no mana and am not in combat then go to my bag and use a water if i am in combat then use a mana potion if mana is full then and i am in combat cast flash heal rank 7 then if i am not in combat the cast renew " |
| 20:31.17 | Adrine | WOW. |
| 20:31.32 | Adrine | Hahaha. Oh man. |
| 20:31.51 | Kirov | Yeah, and when people try and help and give advice they just go, "That's not what I want! (dumb ass)" |
| 20:32.05 | Adrine | Here's the macro you want! |
| 20:32.07 | Maldivia | Kirov: I like how he constantly state that the wiki is just a rippoff :) |
| 20:32.14 | Kirov | Yeah |
| 20:32.18 | Adrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:32.24 | Adrine | That will do it all for you |
| 20:32.24 | Adrine | ! |
| 20:32.25 | Maldivia | Adrine: fixed in 1.10 :) |
| 20:32.27 | Adrine | :( |
| 20:32.33 | Adrine | How am I supposed to pwn nubs now? |
| 20:32.48 | Shadowd | Make something to delete there inventory? |
| 20:32.53 | Adrine | Pff, that's easy. |
| 20:32.53 | Ktron|RFC | lol |
| 20:32.55 | JoshBorke | oooo, is Cide here? |
| 20:33.01 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:33.04 | Ktron|RFC | empty their inventory... or you can send a fake link, that will disconnect them:) |
| 20:33.10 | Kirov | actually, where's that "I WIN" macro thread |
| 20:33.22 | Shadowd | easy, but more fun. |
| 20:33.36 | JoshBorke | does anyone know how the Res Monitor in CTRA works? |
| 20:33.42 | Kirov | Yes |
| 20:33.46 | Adrine | If I were guessing... |
| 20:33.48 | Maldivia | /script while "IWIN" do end |
| 20:34.00 | Adrine | ..I'd say that people with CTRA report on the ctra channel when they start a rez with their rez target's name |
| 20:34.08 | Adrine | Then, the client picks that up and updates the monitor accordingly |
| 20:34.18 | Kirov | Josh- what part o fit? |
| 20:34.22 | JoshBorke | that would stink if that were the case, though i'd bet you'd be right |
| 20:34.28 | Miravlix | ArcanePartyBar |
| 20:34.31 | Adrine | JoshBorke: Why? |
| 20:34.32 | Maldivia | that's how it works... |
| 20:34.37 | Maldivia | and why does that method stink ? |
| 20:34.40 | Kirov | And yeah, that's how it works. |
| 20:34.49 | JoshBorke | because i want it to see when people who don't have CTRA cast also |
| 20:34.49 | Miravlix | That addons shows if someone is casting/doing anything and what there target is |
| 20:34.52 | Miravlix | It's pure cold |
| 20:34.57 | Miravlix | gol |
| 20:34.59 | Miravlix | d |
| 20:34.59 | Adrine | Hm |
| 20:35.08 | Maldivia | JoshBorke: but that information is impossible to obtain :) |
| 20:35.20 | JoshBorke | Maldivia: i know, i just made a thread on WoWI requesting it :-) |
| 20:35.24 | Adrine | You might possibly be able to parse the log for "X begins to cast Resurrection", and then /target X and /assist and then get UnitName("target"); |
| 20:35.43 | Miravlix | Eww. Adrine target switching addons = bad |
| 20:35.45 | Adrine | If there is actually a log entry for that. I dunno if there is. |
| 20:35.52 | Adrine | Miravlix: Yeah, I know, but it'd be out of combat. |
| 20:35.56 | Adrine | Wait! |
| 20:35.58 | Maldivia | JoshBorke: it's a design feature... it will never change |
| 20:36.09 | Adrine | You could get UnitName("targettarget") couldn't you? |
| 20:36.13 | Adrine | Though you'd still have to target 'em |
| 20:36.14 | Adrine | Or... |
| 20:36.17 | Adrine | They're in the raid |
| 20:36.24 | Adrine | So you have UnitName("raidXtarget"); |
| 20:36.30 | Miravlix | I like ArcanePartyBar it tells other APB users so they can show what your doing |
| 20:36.31 | Adrine | You just have to parse the raid roster to find their name. |
| 20:36.47 | Maldivia | Adrine: when I'm ressing, I cast res, and then change target to the next corpse :) |
| 20:36.48 | Miravlix | It shouldn't be easily possible without the user telling others about it. |
| 20:36.48 | JoshBorke | Maldivia: why is that? can you enlighten me? |
| 20:36.55 | Maldivia | Adrine: also, you can't select released corpses |
| 20:36.56 | Kirov|FUD | Yeah, but res doesn't require that you have someone targeted |
| 20:36.59 | Miravlix | If it was you could make spy addons and other creepy stuff |
| 20:37.12 | Adrine | Maldivia: Yeah, me too, but it might be fast enough. Race condition, I know |
| 20:37.34 | Kirov|FUD | UnitName("raid34target") wouldn't show who they're resing |
| 20:37.41 | Adrine | Well, not always. |
| 20:37.42 | Kirov|FUD | especially since it's lagged |
| 20:37.51 | Adrine | It wouldn't be reliable by any means |
| 20:37.56 | Maldivia | JoshBorke: because you would be able to spot instantly who was casting something on you |
| 20:38.03 | Adrine | But it'd be a partial bridge when the rezzer isn't reporting their target. |
| 20:38.04 | Kirov|FUD | Most resers I know are usually already looking around for the enxt pserson to res |
| 20:38.50 | Maldivia | also, what if the resser is using the "cast spell than click" approach, then he/she won't have a taregt |
| 20:39.01 | JoshBorke | Maldivia: makes sense |
| 20:39.19 | Adrine | Maldivia: That's also true. |
| 20:39.19 | Maldivia | JoshBorke: consider the implications in group PvP |
| 20:39.32 | Adrine | Carnival is already edgy enough. :) |
| 20:39.52 | Maldivia | JoshBorke: you would be able to easily target who is casting on you, which priest you have to CS so you can kill that pesky warrior etc |
| 20:40.54 | JoshBorke | yep. exactly |
| 20:41.23 | Adrine | Obviously, the solution is to dual box and have a character follow you around with a target switching/scanning mod that then reports to you :) |
| 20:41.25 | Maldivia | Adrine: luckily, there was a workaround for the "detect who you click on with a spell ready to cast" for 1.10, with CameraOrSelectOrMove* being restricted |
| 20:41.54 | Adrine | Maldivia: Heh, wasn't even aware it broke :) |
| 20:41.58 | Adrine | But yes, that is fortunate. |
| 20:42.22 | Maldivia | Adrine: that's the method CT_RA uses, to detect ress spells on released corpses |
| 20:42.39 | Adrine | I can't say I'd ever looked at it :) |
| 20:43.01 | JoshBorke | Maldivia: so will there be a new method? |
| 20:43.38 | Maldivia | No |
| 20:43.55 | Maldivia | but you can Use OnMouseDown / OnMouseUp scripts on WorldFrame |
| 20:45.13 | JoshBorke | hm, i think i see. so when they click on the worldframe you would parse the tooltip because you'd assume they were casting res over a body? something like that? |
| 20:45.16 | JoshBorke | <-- nub |
| 20:45.50 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 20:46.20 | JoshBorke | cool |
| 20:46.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 20:46.55 | End | that would explain why clicking pretty much anywhere on test was breaking ctraid |
| 20:47.05 | Maldivia | yep |
| 20:47.09 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 20:48.32 | End | (and by breaking, I mean causing WoW to complain bitterly it was trying to do things it shouldn't be allowed to) |
| 20:48.42 | Maldivia | it probably also had some issues with the tooltip scanning (for buff/debuff indicators) |
| 20:49.17 | Maldivia | haven't checked the CT_RA code though, if Cide was lazy when doing tooltip scanning :) |
| 20:49.36 | Maldivia | but I know I had to fix my tooltip scanning quite a few places :) |
| 20:52.13 | Cide | I thought all programmers were lazy |
| 20:52.36 | Adrine | I just program to make the computer do things I don't want to spend the effort doing myself. |
| 20:58.59 | Maldivia | Cide: hehe, I take it you had to fix your tooltip scannings then :) |
| 20:59.08 | Cide | yep |
| 20:59.17 | Cide | rather easy fix, fortunately |
| 20:59.20 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 20:59.23 | Adrine | Just the anchor, yes? |
| 20:59.48 | Cide | <scripts><onload>this:SetOwner(UIParent, "ANCHOR_NONE")</onload></scripts> is what I used most of the time |
| 21:00.08 | Maldivia | Cide, have you checked if that still works after a alt-z? |
| 21:00.16 | Cide | actually, no |
| 21:00.20 | Miravlix | Isn't it a bit silly we have to set ANCHOR_NONE now? |
| 21:00.50 | Maldivia | Miravlix: it isn't the anchor that's important, it's the SetOwner call :) |
| 21:01.01 | Cide | Maldivia: you think it will stop working? |
| 21:01.10 | Maldivia | Cide: I've heard people mention it |
| 21:01.27 | Cide | setting worldframe as owner might fix it? |
| 21:01.36 | Maldivia | Cide: but haven't actually tested it myself, since I fixed it with a SetOwner call everytime I called a SetHyperlink etc function |
| 21:01.58 | Maldivia | but yeah, WorldFrame might be a better alternative |
| 21:02.02 | Cide | I haven't been on test much at all actually |
| 21:02.11 | Cide | just logged in and fixed any immediate issues I saw |
| 21:02.18 | Cide | they all seemed to be related to that though |
| 21:02.21 | Maldivia | well, it was unbearable last week due to queues |
| 21:02.37 | Cide | been too busy working on a site |
| 21:03.05 | Maldivia | I was actually working on a similar project, but had to put it on hold, due to time |
| 21:03.31 | Cide | yeah, it's a lot of work :) |
| 21:03.51 | Maldivia | well, I have the item db :) |
| 21:04.05 | Maldivia | and the spells, for bonuses etc |
| 21:05.09 | Adrine | Man, today is flying by. |
| 21:05.11 | Adrine | Which makes me happy! |
| 21:06.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 21:08.15 | JoshBorke | wb |
| 21:09.41 | Maldivia | Tem: was it a good nap ? |
| 21:09.46 | Tem | heh |
| 21:09.50 | Tem | I just forgot to change my nick |
| 21:09.56 | Tem | I've been up for 6 hours or so |
| 21:10.21 | [MoonWolf] | hehee |
| 21:12.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:12.19 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 21:12.25 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 21:12.26 | End | I disagree, Shouryuu |
| 21:12.33 | Shouryuu | Oh noez! |
| 21:12.38 | Shouryuu | w00t |
| 21:16.01 | Shouryuu | why is my internet so slow... =( |
| 21:19.10 | JoshBorke | your brother dl'ing mac gyver again? |
| 21:20.24 | Adrine | Man. :( |
| 21:20.36 | Adrine | So, I was gonna do my benediction quest before MC the other day. |
| 21:20.41 | Adrine | Got there, all potted up, ready to rock. |
| 21:20.49 | Adrine | Start the quest...and my roommate kicked on his torrent client. |
| 21:20.55 | Adrine | Oh hi 8 second action *YOU HAVE FAILED* lag. |
| 21:20.59 | JoshBorke | ouch |
| 21:21.08 | Tem | with a 4 hours cooldown |
| 21:21.11 | Tem | ouch |
| 21:21.11 | Adrine | Yeah :( |
| 21:28.13 | Kirov|FUD | ick |
| 21:28.33 | Shouryuu | lol that sucks |
| 21:28.40 | Adrine | Now I have to farm more firebloom. |
| 21:28.51 | Shouryuu | How much you need for the quest? |
| 21:28.58 | Shouryuu | firebloom isn't *hard* to get |
| 21:29.02 | Adrine | Not for the quest, but for oils of immolation |
| 21:29.10 | Adrine | They help a lot, and you pop 'em like candy. |
| 21:29.21 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:29.29 | Adrine | It's not hard to get, but I really don't care for herb farming. |
| 21:29.33 | Shouryuu | engineering should help as well |
| 21:29.44 | Adrine | My priest is herb/alch. My rogue is engineering :) |
| 21:29.53 | Shouryuu | hehe bombs FTW |
| 21:29.59 | Adrine | Indeed. |
| 21:30.00 | Shouryuu | I used to be herb/alch |
| 21:30.06 | Shouryuu | but i was so goddamn expensive |
| 21:30.11 | Shouryuu | I changed to eng/min |
| 21:30.20 | Shouryuu | never had the courage to lvl up any though :P |
| 21:30.27 | Shouryuu | so I'm like 150 at both... |
| 21:30.35 | Adrine | Rogue is enchanting/engineering. Total moneysink and incredibly useful :D |
| 21:30.44 | Shouryuu | hummm indeed |
| 21:30.56 | Adrine | They're nerfing my shard/money tree though :( |
| 21:30.57 | Shouryuu | I'm just so broke |
| 21:31.11 | Shouryuu | how? |
| 21:31.18 | Adrine | Up till now, I just farm Incendius for shards and the occassional Ace, which keeps me well stocked. |
| 21:31.32 | Adrine | But with 1.10, they're adding a -100 FR curse that'll make it a bit more difficult. |
| 21:31.46 | Shouryuu | what's his respawn time? |
| 21:32.14 | Shouryuu | he's the guy in front of BRD right? |
| 21:32.17 | Adrine | As long as it takes to reset the instance :) |
| 21:32.20 | Adrine | No, he's in BRD |
| 21:32.33 | Adrine | Overseer Pyron is the guy outside of BRD |
| 21:32.37 | Shouryuu | ah |
| 21:33.02 | Shouryuu | the 5instance/hour thing sucks |
| 21:33.14 | Adrine | Eh. It annoys me, but I can see why they have it in place |
| 21:33.22 | Shouryuu | yeah same :P |
| 21:33.30 | Adrine | I just extend my runs by doing the Dark Coffer along with Incendius |
| 21:33.34 | Shouryuu | Do you farm with your priest? |
| 21:33.39 | Adrine | Which puts the time a little over 12 minutes per instance |
| 21:33.40 | Adrine | Hahahano |
| 21:33.44 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:33.47 | Adrine | Holy priest farming is a myth. |
| 21:33.51 | Shouryuu | priest is my only char =( |
| 21:33.55 | Shouryuu | yeah it sucks |
| 21:33.59 | Shouryuu | That's why I'm broke |
| 21:34.02 | Adrine | It'll be a lot more bearable in 1.10 |
| 21:34.12 | Shouryuu | yeah but no stealth just sucks |
| 21:34.22 | Adrine | Rogues are pretty hard to beat for farming stuff. |
| 21:34.30 | Shouryuu | Druids sound good to me |
| 21:34.31 | Adrine | Great single-target damage, stealth to save time. |
| 21:34.46 | Adrine | Yeah, but druids need a lot of really good gear to have the necessary damage for most things. |
| 21:35.01 | Shouryuu | dunno, my only druid is 22 |
| 21:35.49 | Shouryuu | going to feral, so I can actualy *kill* things in PvP and not die every 15 sec, which will change from playing my priest |
| 21:36.12 | Kirov | heh |
| 21:36.20 | Adrine | Eh. Roll a hunter or a warrior for 60 PVP, rogue for sub-60 :) |
| 21:36.27 | Kirov | My gf's 40 druid out dpses my 40 rogue |
| 21:36.33 | Shouryuu | nice |
| 21:36.45 | Kirov | I need better weapons though. |
| 21:37.00 | Kirov | Plus it depends on who's doing the tanking. |
| 21:37.13 | Adrine | Level 40? Get a Hand of Righteousness from Whitemane, if possible. Healer stats, but an absolutely killer max damage for the level. |
| 21:37.17 | Adrine | Huge sinister strikes. |
| 21:37.23 | Kirov | if she's in bear tanking, I easily win, but if I'm tanking and she's dpsing we're about even with her just above. |
| 21:37.56 | Shouryuu | SM is the best instance from 30-40 |
| 21:38.14 | Adrine | No arguemnt there. |
| 21:38.23 | Shouryuu | oh where can I find a nice 1h for my priest |
| 21:38.27 | Shouryuu | not too hard to find |
| 21:38.36 | Shouryuu | like a nice drop in a 5man instance |
| 21:38.47 | Adrine | LEvel? |
| 21:38.50 | Shouryuu | 60 :P |
| 21:39.01 | Shouryuu | to go with my AV off hand reward |
| 21:39.04 | Adrine | Lorespinner from DM is nice |
| 21:39.12 | Shouryuu | aye indeed that will do |
| 21:39.18 | Adrine | Gift of the Elven Magi from living Strath is nice as well. |
| 21:39.33 | Adrine | Witchblade from Scholo if you're shadow |
| 21:39.55 | Shouryuu | nay, holy, 20/31 |
| 21:40.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 21:40.37 | Shouryuu | god damn internet! |
| 21:40.50 | Shouryuu | can't even load thottbot... |
| 21:41.03 | Shouryuu | or g00gle =( |
| 21:41.07 | Adrine | Ouch. |
| 21:42.16 | Kirov | http://72.14.207.99/ ? |
| 21:42.22 | Kirov | (google.com) |
| 21:42.44 | Kirov | to see if it's your dns |
| 21:43.11 | Shouryuu | it works |
| 21:43.27 | Adrine | Your DNS is spotty then |
| 21:43.38 | Shouryuu | meaning? |
| 21:43.47 | Adrine | Your ISP probably needs to fix something |
| 21:43.59 | Shouryuu | awww that sucks |
| 21:44.50 | Shouryuu | is there a way better I can explain to them than "I need you to fix something for me!" "What do you need fixed?" "I dunno, but fix it!" |
| 21:45.13 | Ktron | wish discordmods would come back up sooner than later |
| 21:45.26 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 21:45.31 | Shouryuu | did you buy a t-shirt? |
| 21:45.39 | Adrine | Oh dear. This is looking deeeelicious. |
| 21:45.40 | Adrine | http://pc.ign.com/articles/695/695946p1.html |
| 21:45.49 | Cairenn | he's providing support out of WoWI atm |
| 21:46.19 | Shouryuu | can't load that *dum dum dum dum pok pok* |
| 21:46.40 | Adrine | Supreme Commander review - the spiritual sequal to Total Annihilation |
| 21:46.49 | End | I went straight to the first screenshot, and the first thing I thought was, hey, it looks like Total Annhilation |
| 21:47.01 | End | then I actually started reading it :P |
| 21:47.07 | Kirov | Shouryuu - Tell them your DNS server isn't resolving site names for you |
| 21:47.08 | Shouryuu | heh |
| 21:47.20 | Shouryuu | ok thanks kirov |
| 21:47.32 | Kirov | A friend of mine wrote the renderer for Supreme Commander |
| 21:47.51 | Adrine | Interesting that they're moving to three factions, rather than two. |
| 21:48.00 | Adrine | That was the primary complaint about TA in comparison to Starcraft. |
| 21:48.27 | End | cool though |
| 21:48.31 | End | I can't wait now >_< |
| 21:48.37 | Adrine | Yes. |
| 21:51.29 | Tain | I want a Herzog Zwei remake! |
| 21:56.06 | JoshBorke | hm, could mana conserve functionality be possible in 1.10 if someone just spams a button? |
| 21:56.10 | Shouryuu | the best RTS i've seen is zone control |
| 21:56.12 | Shouryuu | josh aye |
| 21:56.55 | JoshBorke | is there a call to get the time remaining( Currently looking it up on the wiki) |
| 21:58.08 | Kirov | time of what? |
| 21:58.10 | Shouryuu | remaining on? your cast? |
| 21:58.14 | JoshBorke | remaining on a cast |
| 21:58.26 | Shouryuu | don't think so |
| 21:58.33 | Adrine | You can log the cast time when you start casting |
| 21:58.34 | JoshBorke | i don't think so either |
| 21:58.39 | Adrine | And then just subtract from it OnUpdate() |
| 21:58.44 | JoshBorke | yea, that's what i'll do |
| 21:58.48 | Shouryuu | aye and watch for hits |
| 21:58.54 | Adrine | Actually... |
| 21:58.57 | Adrine | ...there has to be a way. |
| 21:59.10 | Adrine | Because I have mods that give me a numeric time remaining, even when I get hit |
| 21:59.12 | JoshBorke | do hits add specific amount of time? |
| 21:59.35 | JoshBorke | Adrine: ditto, ecastingbar :D |
| 21:59.53 | Legorol | evening folks |
| 22:00.02 | Qzot|atwork | Yo. |
| 22:00.06 | Legorol | the PTRs are down and have been for almost 24 hours now, is that correct? |
| 22:00.08 | Legorol | or is it just me.. |
| 22:00.20 | Adrine | There's a CURRENT_SPELL_CAST_CHANGED event |
| 22:00.22 | JoshBorke | hello |
| 22:00.27 | Adrine | Maybe a parameter of the event is time remaining? |
| 22:00.37 | Adrine | Worst that happens, crack open a mod that gives a numeric display and see how they do it |
| 22:00.40 | Kirov | It's the MIRROR_BAR_START event |
| 22:00.47 | JoshBorke | Adrine: indeed |
| 22:01.04 | Adrine | Hah! |
| 22:01.08 | Adrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.14 | Adrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.18 | Adrine | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.19 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:01.23 | JoshBorke | woohoo! |
| 22:01.25 | Adrine | Fired when a spellcast duration is increased arg1- Disruption time |
| 22:01.34 | Qzot|atwork | I have a question for the hive mind... |
| 22:01.40 | Adrine | You also have SPELLCAST_CHANNEL_START/STOP |
| 22:02.03 | Adrine | And MIRROR_TIMER_START looks like it'd work even nicer. |
| 22:02.11 | Adrine | Though...you may not get updates on interrupt? |
| 22:02.16 | JoshBorke | where do you see this mirror_timer_start? |
| 22:02.26 | Kirov | It's used by the client to pop up the casting bar |
| 22:03.42 | JoshBorke | why is it that SPELLCAST_STOP is called twice for channeled spells? |
| 22:04.07 | Adrine | My guess is one for the channel being interrupted and one for the spell stopping, if that makes sense. |
| 22:04.16 | Adrine | Though that's a completely uneducated guess. |
| 22:04.24 | JoshBorke | i'm just going off of the wiki |
| 22:04.31 | JoshBorke | "Called twice when the spell is channelled. Once at start, once at completion." |
| 22:04.32 | Kirov | hmm |
| 22:04.53 | Kirov | Mirror timers are used for death, fd, breath, and exaustion |
| 22:04.57 | Kirov | not spell casts |
| 22:05.04 | JoshBorke | yea |
| 22:05.25 | Kirov | so the SPELLCAST_CHANNEL_START ones are what you want |
| 22:05.36 | Adrine | This is kinda a silly question... |
| 22:05.52 | Kirov | Rabbits like cheese. |
| 22:05.53 | Adrine | ..but has anyone ever heard of anyone putting together a flow layout manager for addon UIs? |
| 22:05.56 | Kirov | (that's a silly answer) |
| 22:06.17 | Kirov | *blink* |
| 22:06.26 | Adrine | Once 1.10 comes out and we can create elements programatically, I have this crazy vision of an in-game UI building tool |
| 22:06.36 | JoshBorke | CRAZEE! |
| 22:06.43 | Adrine | Build your UI, serialize it to XML, put it in a text box for copy-paste into an external file. |
| 22:06.57 | JoshBorke | but that wolud be nice |
| 22:06.59 | JoshBorke | interesting idea |
| 22:07.02 | Kirov | hmm |
| 22:07.15 | Adrine | I can write XML, but really, it's a PITA to learn. |
| 22:07.22 | JoshBorke | Adrine: indeed |
| 22:07.24 | Adrine | Not XML, just Blizzard's UI elements and their various features. |
| 22:07.26 | JoshBorke | anyway, thanks for all the help |
| 22:07.33 | Kirov | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4222 - but in wow |
| 22:07.37 | Adrine | Exactly. |
| 22:07.46 | Adrine | And I really, really hate having to do a UI reload for every tweak |
| 22:08.02 | Adrine | It'd be so nice to build and tweak in realtime and then write out the appropriate XML. |
| 22:08.16 | JoshBorke | Adrine: you could do something like that now as far as tweaking |
| 22:08.19 | JoshBorke | anyway, gotta go, bye |
| 22:08.24 | Adrine | I know you can use DUF for tweaking |
| 22:08.44 | Adrine | But it's only on existing elements and doesn't serialize XML. |
| 22:09.03 | End | incidently, the abbreviation for Supreme Commander is/would be the same as for Starcraft |
| 22:09.12 | Kirov | I wrote an html out put for wow |
| 22:09.12 | Adrine | Hah. I didn't even think of that. |
| 22:09.19 | Adrine | SC's better! No, SC is! Nuh-uh, SC! |
| 22:09.56 | Tem | did they ever add something like LoadWith? |
| 22:10.25 | Adrine | I wonder if I could use XSLT to transform WoW UI files into HTML. |
| 22:10.42 | Adrine | That might be interesting. |
| 22:10.44 | End | I ...think so |
| 22:10.51 | Qzot|atwork | Okay, maybe the hive mind is more receptive now... |
| 22:11.07 | Adrine | Qzot|atwork: You asked the pre-question, but never the question! :) |
| 22:11.46 | Qzot|atwork | I have a semi-substantiated report that a farming org brought suit against Blizzard in LA. Anyone heard anything about this? THIS IS NOT 100% CONFIRMED AT THIS POINT. |
| 22:12.01 | Adrine | Nothing on my radar. |
| 22:12.12 | Qzot|atwork | (True, Adrine, the hive mind seemed busy...) |
| 22:14.17 | Qzot|atwork | No one has any info? Anyone else even heard the rumor? |
| 22:14.47 | Kirov | nope |
| 22:15.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qwxyr (i=qw@201.80-202-198.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:18.53 | Cairenn | ROFL |
| 22:19.01 | Kirov | ... |
| 22:19.19 | Cairenn | I just had it suggested to me that we should submit the two Mod Dev guilds to the Guild Relations Program |
| 22:19.39 | Kirov | ? |
| 22:19.41 | Cairenn | since we show an "active participation in community relations" |
| 22:19.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-72-177-82-90.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:20.00 | Josh|Gone | nope |
| 22:20.03 | Cairenn | now that amuses me a very great deal |
| 22:20.35 | malreth | OMG I can't understand a thing that Lifa is saying on the forums! |
| 22:20.45 | Cairenn | malreth: ? |
| 22:20.58 | Kirov | The "macro challange" thread |
| 22:21.29 | Cairenn | ah, okay |
| 22:21.29 | malreth | no, kirov... the Macro chanllange thread |
| 22:21.29 | Kirov | or, rather, "Macro chanllange" |
| 22:21.32 | malreth | lol |
| 22:21.33 | Kirov | yeah |
| 22:21.35 | Cairenn | challenge, even? |
| 22:21.42 | malreth | NO! |
| 22:21.45 | Josh|Gone | no really, chanllange |
| 22:21.45 | malreth | chanllange |
| 22:21.50 | Cairenn | oh, I see |
| 22:21.50 | Kirov | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=336534&p=1&tmp=1#post336534 |
| 22:21.50 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 22:22.00 | Josh|Gone | it's an abomination to all things civilized |
| 22:22.21 | malreth | i'm gonna replace him with a chat bot script |
| 22:22.36 | Kirov | Of all the people who have asked for help with macros, this person I wish to help the least after just reading the first page. |
| 22:22.43 | Kirov | heck, first posrt |
| 22:22.46 | Kirov | er, post |
| 22:22.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Verlaine (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:23.10 | malreth | for the record... a package of cheese does not come with instructions. |
| 22:23.18 | Kirov | It seems fairly obvious this person has no intention of learning anything, and just wants someone to magically do everything for them. |
| 22:23.27 | Verlaine | lol |
| 22:23.34 | Verlaine | that thread |
| 22:23.41 | malreth | actually, no... he wants to learn |
| 22:23.47 | malreth | but just refuses to |
| 22:23.57 | Verlaine | lol |
| 22:24.16 | krka | that thread makes my head hurt |
| 22:24.23 | malreth | i'd be happy with just making macros for him if he could describe what he wants |
| 22:24.25 | Cairenn | ouch |
| 22:24.34 | Kirov | Yeah |
| 22:24.42 | krka | also, learning to program is not a trival task |
| 22:24.49 | Kirov | I've seen plenty of people, and helped plenty of people who ask nicely. |
| 22:25.06 | krka | there's no easy road to instant programming wisdom |
| 22:25.10 | Kirov | Getting mad when people don't give you exactly what you want NOW isn't going to help. |
| 22:25.11 | malreth | anyways... just had to vent for a sec... |
| 22:25.16 | Verlaine | learning to program in WoW is *far* from easy |
| 22:25.39 | malreth | there is a bit of a learning curve |
| 22:25.41 | Josh|Gone | i woludn't say it's too hard, depending on backgroup |
| 22:25.43 | End | haha "have i ever once asked for lua |
| 22:25.44 | Josh|Gone | er, background |
| 22:25.54 | Josh|Gone | but the xml is a bitch :-/ |
| 22:26.24 | krka | my god gello made a big reply |
| 22:26.26 | malreth | actually, after staring at the XSD for a really really long time... and I really do mean stare... I figured outu the XML |
| 22:26.28 | krka | such a waste :/ |
| 22:26.36 | Josh|Gone | ( Adrine ): you should get started on your mod now :D |
| 22:26.39 | Verlaine | lol |
| 22:26.48 | krka | actually, i got started with wow coding very easily |
| 22:26.51 | Josh|Gone | ( Adrine ): mod developers everywhere will <3 you |
| 22:26.53 | krka | thanks to wowwiki i guess |
| 22:27.03 | Adrine | Josh|Gone: Already working on an XSLT stylesheet to see if I can just get WoW XML files to render reasonably in browsers :D |
| 22:27.03 | krka | then again, i had X number of years of experience with other languages |
| 22:27.11 | Kirov | I only found the XSD recently. |
| 22:27.11 | Verlaine | well I'd never programmed before, it wasn't fun |
| 22:27.28 | Kirov | I did the entire UI for SAS with out ever realizing it existed. |
| 22:27.28 | Verlaine | wiki or no wiki |
| 22:27.35 | Adrine | Of course, my teensy knowledge of XSLT is something of a hindering factor. |
| 22:27.48 | krka | i haven't looked at the XSD at all |
| 22:28.08 | malreth | http://fara.webeddie.com/ui/ |
| 22:28.16 | Verlaine | yeah that;s a cool XML site |
| 22:28.16 | Josh|Gone | x have no idea what XSD is :-/ |
| 22:28.22 | Verlaine | well tutorial |
| 22:28.41 | Adrine | I pretty much learned the WoW XML stuff by looking at other mods. |
| 22:28.46 | malreth | basically the XSD made readable |
| 22:28.50 | Kirov | I think most people did |
| 22:28.52 | krka | i think Lifa is a troll |
| 22:28.56 | Josh|Gone | ( Adrine ): same |
| 22:28.59 | Kirov | Or looking at blizzard's ui |
| 22:29.02 | krka | maybe the same person who suggested VB instead of Lua |
| 22:29.06 | End | I think Lifa should go away. |
| 22:29.10 | Kirov | I'd go "what does something like what I want" |
| 22:29.14 | Kirov | then track it down |
| 22:29.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:29.34 | End | hi Iriel! |
| 22:29.36 | Kirov | copy / paste the existing code then hack it to hell till it does what I want |
| 22:29.46 | Josh|Gone | hi iriel |
| 22:29.51 | Josh|Gone | ( Kirov ): isn't that the coders way? |
| 22:29.54 | malreth | Hi Iriel. We were just talking about you. |
| 22:29.58 | End | hah |
| 22:30.14 | Adrine | I don't know if virtual frames are a possibility with XSLT. |
| 22:30.15 | malreth | Actually, I lied. We haven't. |
| 22:30.18 | Iriel | Uh oh. |
| 22:30.21 | Kirov | Josh - of course |
| 22:30.25 | Cairenn | hey Iriel |
| 22:30.31 | Cairenn | and geez what a moron |
| 22:30.41 | Adrine | So instead I think I'd be tempted to just write a parser that spits out HTML. Less clever, but likely easier to make work. |
| 22:30.43 | Iriel | I figured i'd hop by between meetings and such. |
| 22:30.54 | Cairenn | this thread is making me want to cry |
| 22:31.00 | krka | yeah |
| 22:31.04 | Cairenn | how's your day going Iriel? sounds busy |
| 22:31.47 | Iriel | Busy as seems to be my new norm 8-( |
| 22:32.05 | krka | ok... Lifa is a retard or a troll |
| 22:32.09 | krka | or a retarded troll |
| 22:32.15 | End | I'm always busy, but never with what I'm supposed to be doing |
| 22:32.23 | Cairenn | heh |
| 22:32.23 | Verlaine | lol |
| 22:32.34 | Adrine | You know... |
| 22:32.40 | Adrine | ...I've written XML->PDF layout managers |
| 22:32.44 | malreth | troll would be giving him quite a bit of credit... he's got some serious replies |
| 22:32.50 | Adrine | I don't see why it'd be that hard to do one for the WoW layouts. |
| 22:33.11 | Iriel | Are you talking about the UI layouts? (The <Ui> schema?) |
| 22:33.14 | Adrine | Yeah. |
| 22:33.20 | malreth | and i'm not just saying that because I bit at the line |
| 22:33.28 | Adrine | I'm kicking around ideas for enabling faster UI layout development. |
| 22:33.30 | Iriel | If so, the real challenge (a) the constraint solving nature of the anchor model |
| 22:33.36 | Iriel | and (b) the mix of declared XML and code |
| 22:33.42 | krka | why do good insightful posts get no replies and retarded posts get lots? |
| 22:33.48 | Iriel | and (c) getting scaling right 8-) |
| 22:33.57 | Adrine | (a) Not terribly difficult given absolute positioning and known units |
| 22:33.57 | malreth | ooh... SAT words... How do you spell 'constraint'? |
| 22:33.58 | krka | Adrine, soon we won't have to deal with XML at all! |
| 22:33.59 | Verlaine | I'd answer the guy but my account is expired :P |
| 22:34.13 | malreth | :) |
| 22:34.15 | Adrine | (b) ignorable for mockups/rough development, for the most part, though that'll depend on preferences |
| 22:34.30 | Adrine | and (c) not much of an issue given a decent box model to work with. |
| 22:34.50 | Iriel | If you can ignore code and just care about the XML declarations |
| 22:35.28 | Adrine | It wouldn't render anywhere near what it would in game in some instances, since a lot of actual UI setup is done programatically in some cases... |
| 22:35.37 | Adrine | ...but I'm working on the parallel of the Visual Studio visual designer. |
| 22:35.38 | Iriel | And can be self-contained (i.e. only worry about anchors to known reference points or frames in the list) then I imagine you could do a lot without worrying about too much |
| 22:35.55 | Adrine | Plop down elements, visually design, worry about the code at runtime. |
| 22:36.06 | Iriel | As it is, you can't anchor against an object that doesn't exist yet |
| 22:36.19 | Iriel | which means for non-programatic cases, there's no cyclic complexity in the anchor model |
| 22:36.24 | Adrine | Well, what I'm thinking is a two-pass process |
| 22:36.41 | krka | two-pass?? that's ancient, you gotta use three-pass these days |
| 22:37.02 | Adrine | Parse the entire document and build objects that know how to render themselves and have children. |
| 22:37.23 | Adrine | Then, do the render pass and lookup referenced frames for anchors and the like during the render pass, when all elements are known |
| 22:38.49 | Iriel | I dont believe you need the second pass |
| 22:38.56 | Iriel | Though I could be mistaken |
| 22:39.09 | Iriel | I haven't had need to test it yet 8-) |
| 22:39.28 | Iriel | You'll need to be sure to get virtual frames right too, they're not hard, just mildly fiddly |
| 22:40.11 | Adrine | Yeah |
| 22:40.32 | Adrine | That's actually why I don't think you could do it in XSLT |
| 22:41.03 | Iriel | I suspect you could |
| 22:41.07 | Iriel | it'd just be messily recursive |
| 22:41.16 | krka | wtf: "you have to understand i am a logic thinker" |
| 22:41.17 | Iriel | Not necessarily very fast |
| 22:41.30 | Adrine | Well, I suspect it'd be faster than a ReloadUI(); :) |
| 22:42.14 | Iriel | Probably, but a simple parse to model, satisfy constraints -> emit representatoin program in your more normal language of choice would be faster than XSLT |
| 22:42.30 | Iriel | But even there you still have to get virtual frames right 8-) |
| 22:42.56 | Iriel | Luckily we know how they work in terms of creation order |
| 22:43.16 | Kirov | is there a method in lua to inject characters in to a string at specific indexes? |
| 22:43.25 | Kirov | ie: opposite of string.sub |
| 22:43.37 | Kirov | not using regular expressiosn |
| 22:43.47 | krka | well, you can split the string and then put it back together |
| 22:43.49 | Iriel | do 2 string.sub's and an append? |
| 22:43.51 | Adrine | You could split the string and then concat the two pieces on either side |
| 22:43.54 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 22:43.57 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 22:44.01 | Iriel | or 2 subs and a string.format |
| 22:44.06 | Iriel | if you want to avoid an extra temporary |
| 22:44.12 | Adrine | You know. |
| 22:44.17 | Kirov | hmm |
| 22:44.28 | Adrine | The hardest widget to implement for a browser-based layout viewer... |
| 22:44.30 | Kirov | just looking for speed |
| 22:44.32 | Adrine | ...will be SimpleHTML. :) |
| 22:44.40 | Iriel | Well, you only care about the content |
| 22:44.46 | Adrine | (I know) |
| 22:44.52 | Adrine | That was a joke! |
| 22:44.55 | Iriel | I'd imagine ScrollFrames with ScrollChild'ren will be your real problem 8-) |
| 22:44.58 | Kirov | Tewriting LootLink's search to not-suck |
| 22:45.20 | Adrine | ScrollChild? I'm not aware of that element... |
| 22:45.30 | krka | <script> and onevents will be tricky |
| 22:45.32 | Adrine | Never seen it anywhere. I just use the faux scroll frames with manual update methods. |
| 22:45.34 | Iriel | Look at the Quest Destail frame |
| 22:45.36 | krka | you need to convert it to javascript i think |
| 22:45.38 | Adrine | krka: Not worrying about those. |
| 22:45.44 | Adrine | Iriel: Will do, thanks. |
| 22:45.58 | Adrine | If it's what I'm thinking of, should just be a div with overflow:auto set. |
| 22:46.55 | Iriel | It'd show up as a sort of scrollable subframe |
| 22:47.06 | Adrine | Right, easy enough |
| 22:47.16 | Adrine | Just a container of set size that has scrollable content |
| 22:47.46 | malreth | image creation failed... gotta start all over... |
| 22:47.57 | malreth | there's 3 hours of my life i can never reclaim |
| 22:48.47 | malreth | screw it... the lab is closed tonight and tomorrow... i'll finish this later |
| 22:48.57 | malreth | goin home |
| 22:49.00 | malreth | laters folks |
| 22:49.05 | Kirov | later |
| 22:49.08 | Cairenn | night malreth |
| 22:51.01 | krka | sleep time! |
| 22:51.41 | Cairenn | night krka |
| 22:52.03 | Qzot|atwork | Cairenn, can you plz do me a favor? |
| 22:52.12 | Cairenn | possibly |
| 22:52.30 | Qzot|atwork | Could you please send me a junk PM? I don't think this client indicates it in any way. Want to know for sure. |
| 22:52.50 | Cairenn | what, whether you remembered to ident or not? |
| 22:53.13 | Qzot|atwork | Ooo lala. |
| 22:53.21 | Shouryuu | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:53.25 | Cairenn | you able to respond to it? |
| 22:53.34 | Qzot|atwork | It comes through. With "*" instead of "<>". |
| 22:53.47 | Qzot|atwork | I can probably respond. If I learn how. :P |
| 22:54.17 | Qzot|atwork | I did. Came out in public. |
| 22:54.23 | Cairenn | what program are you using? |
| 22:54.25 | Qzot|atwork | help ! |
| 22:54.49 | Qzot|atwork | mt |
| 22:54.58 | Qzot|atwork | Was talking to my unhelp system. |
| 22:55.04 | krka | Shouryuu, it will always cast find herbs though |
| 22:55.24 | Shouryuu | oh yeah, need to cange k's value |
| 22:55.39 | krka | here's how i do it: |
| 22:56.20 | krka | local function notTrackingMinerals() |
| 22:56.20 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:56.20 | krka | end |
| 22:56.27 | krka | then paraphrasing: |
| 22:56.49 | Qzot|atwork | help |
| 22:56.49 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:57.23 | Shouryuu | yeah I guess that's simple enough |
| 22:57.58 | krka | could add the check for herbs too |
| 22:58.05 | krka | no wait, that's not needed |
| 22:58.07 | krka | never mind |
| 22:58.15 | Shouryuu | :P |
| 22:58.22 | End | not only not needed, but not useful ;P |
| 22:58.51 | End | (as in, what if you didn't have any tracking up?) |
| 22:59.29 | Qzot|atwork | Cairenn: What do you type in your client to pm me? |
| 22:59.42 | Cairenn | I just double click your name :p |
| 22:59.48 | krka | same thing, isn't it? |
| 23:00.13 | Shouryuu | night people |
| 23:00.57 | Iriel | I give up on the frame deletion argument |
| 23:01.08 | Cairenn | Qzot|atwork: what IRC program are you using? |
| 23:01.14 | Cairenn | Iriel: *nod* |
| 23:01.25 | Cairenn | just not listening, are they? |
| 23:02.52 | Cairenn | Iriel: one of those "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts" situations, isn't it? |
| 23:04.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (i=user@sandbox.xerox.com) |
| 23:05.07 | Qzot | Back. |
| 23:05.13 | Cairenn | front |
| 23:05.18 | Qzot | Hehe. |
| 23:05.24 | Kirov | starboard |
| 23:05.52 | Qzot | Okay. I could get into PM, but couldn't send, because I'm not yet registered here. And couldn't figure out how to get out of PM mode. But that will change. Thanks. |
| 23:06.27 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:06.32 | Qzot | Iriel: What client do you use when you access via your box? |
| 23:07.23 | Qzot | Hmm. Says I've already identified. |
| 23:07.55 | Qzot | Lol. /msg works. |
| 23:08.00 | Iriel | Qzot: IRC? Bitchx |
| 23:24.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 23:25.23 | cladhaire | Oh noes.. where did the Macro Challnge go? |
| 23:25.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (i=slouken@devolution.com) |
| 23:26.28 | slouken | Any other 1.10 movement holes? |
| 23:27.32 | Qzot | unknown. I've been head-down in something else the last week. |
| 23:27.53 | cladhaire | *wave* Slouken |
| 23:28.05 | End | slouken, I blame the fact that you got on early -expecting- holes the reason we didn't find any |
| 23:28.11 | cladhaire | Haven't had a chance to hack at it too much.. got caught up watching Iriel and Legorol's heads spin earlier this week =) |
| 23:28.31 | End | (today) |
| 23:34.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:39.30 | slouken | Well, Iriel found a few. :) |
| 23:39.35 | slouken | I think I've closed them though. |
| 23:40.06 | End | ah |
| 23:41.05 | slouken | Here are the ones I know about: Using SetScript() on a blizzard frame |
| 23:41.31 | slouken | Assigning one protected function to another protected function and then triggering the second on demand |
| 23:41.41 | slouken | Anything I've missed? |
| 23:41.54 | Kirov | crazy setfenv stuff? |
| 23:42.03 | slouken | Anybody tried it? |
| 23:42.59 | End | I tried it last night, and it worked, but that was before you would have fixed it |
| 23:43.20 | slouken | What was the exploit? (so I can try it with the fixed code) |
| 23:45.05 | Kirov | hmm |
| 23:45.12 | End | oh nuts, purl cuts off in logging before it gets interesting :( |
| 23:45.59 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:47.25 | slouken | Thanks! |
| 23:47.39 | Shadowd | sshhh |
| 23:47.55 | ckknight | lol, Shadowd |
| 23:48.10 | Shadowd | Granted I havn't needed to actually hook movement stuff so it doesn't matter |
| 23:48.26 | Kirov | Does lua have any kind of concept of referencing like this? |
| 23:48.27 | Kirov | X = 5; |
| 23:48.27 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.27 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.27 | Kirov | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.31 | Kirov | "3" |
| 23:48.38 | Kirov | Or is it only with tables |
| 23:48.43 | Adrine | Only with tables, IIRC |
| 23:49.17 | Tain | mmm will we still be able to setscript on game frames if we're not doing "bad things (tm)" on them? |
| 23:50.30 | cladhaire | Tain: We should be able to.. they just won't have the blessed opportunity to call the protected functions, if i understand correctly. |
| 23:50.44 | slouken | Okay, the setfenv trick doesn't work anymore. |
| 23:51.11 | Tain | I don't care about them! Flush 'em all away as far as I'm concerned! |
| 23:51.44 | End | Hmm, I suppose you could just make it so :SetScript and setfenv causes taint? |
| 23:51.49 | Adrine | cladhaire: Was the issue essentially usurping the privs of the Blizzard frames through setscript on those frames? |
| 23:52.13 | Kirov | On a completely unrelated topic, is there any reason why the real macro indices are hidden? |
| 23:52.43 | slouken | Yeah, something like: PlayerFrame:SetScript("OnUpdate", MoveForwardStart) |
| 23:54.06 | End | On test I ended up doing it to RaidFrame/FriendsFrame/WhoFrame/etc so that switch tabs on the social pane which cause me to spin, and move/stop moving. it was quite amusing |
| 23:54.25 | End | because |
| 23:54.28 | End | I'm easily amused |
| 23:54.49 | Adrine | I haven't -any- experience with this, or have any idea of what you've closed, but the first thing I'd try would be to find a Bliz frame that calls some function and then replace the function with my own function which attempts to use a restricted call |
| 23:55.05 | Adrine | Since I guess the first way I'd think of restricting calls is by the originating call in the call stack :) |
| 23:55.25 | Adrine | Kinda like a blessed call with 1 level of indirection, if that makes sense. |
| 23:55.46 | End | it doesn't seem to work that way |
| 23:55.52 | Adrine | Wonderful. :) |
| 23:56.10 | End | if it just checked the stack, than it would be fooled by tail calls |
| 23:56.11 | Adrine | (I'm not horribly well versed in Lua's internals, so...yeah. :) |
| 23:56.22 | End | but it isn't fooled by them |
| 23:56.49 | cladhaire | Its quite impressive either way =) |
| 23:57.01 | End | I think it works in the other direction :P |
| 23:57.29 | End | (well, sorta in the other direction) |
| 23:58.24 | cladhaire | slouken: I know you probably can't confirm or deny.. but is it the signing that is giving the addons the blessing like we think, or some other process? (feel free to be vague.. i'm just curious =) |
| 23:58.54 | Tain | Signs, signs, everywhere's signs. |
| 23:59.16 | End | SHOW ME A SIGN! |
| 23:59.21 | End | as long as it isn't a stop sign |
| 23:59.28 | End | yield is fine though |
| 23:59.37 | End | </silly> |
| 23:59.45 | Tain | I like, "Take as needed." |
| 23:59.48 | slouken | Yes, it's the signing. |
| 23:59.58 | Tain | dum da dum! |
| 23:59.59 | cladhaire | That's what we suspected |
