| 00:00.12 | AnduinLothar | that's ok, i've only been in retail once or twice since ctprofiles went live anyway |
| 00:00.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 00:00.35 | Miravlix | I select a Night Elf Druid in search option |
| 00:00.40 | Miravlix | Then it gives me horde ranks... |
| 00:01.50 | Miravlix | Dunno the data seems a bit funky |
| 00:02.00 | Miravlix | a level 60 druid rank 14 with less than 2K hps? |
| 00:05.17 | Miravlix | It's only slow if you don't have a good cache/proxy combo, it's instant now I load the same profile. |
| 00:05.41 | Miravlix | offcourse it's not firefox friendly. |
| 00:06.46 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 00:07.01 | Shouryuu | well night |
| 00:07.04 | Miravlix | Ugh, wish I hadn't loaded it in IE. |
| 00:07.04 | AnduinLothar | not firefox friendly? |
| 00:07.17 | Miravlix | All the darn gold advertisments shows up |
| 00:07.35 | Miravlix | Yeah the profile detail view is messed up in Firefox |
| 00:07.55 | Miravlix | Font is to big and it's shifted down half a line ending up over the weapon slots |
| 00:08.28 | AnduinLothar | works in Camino |
| 00:09.09 | AnduinLothar | only problem is the tooltip goes under the scroll bar |
| 00:09.58 | AnduinLothar | nice you can get to your alts from the profile page |
| 00:10.38 | AnduinLothar | the rep doesn't have #'s tho |
| 00:25.00 | Ktron | Should the current versions of KC Items and AceGUI on WoWi work together? |
| 01:15.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=esnickel@ip-66-80-2-118.dsl.sca.megapath.net) |
| 01:17.04 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 01:24.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust242.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:36.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaiden (n=kaiden@c-24-19-203-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.48 | kaiden | Howdy folks :) |
| 01:37.54 | Qzot | Heyo. |
| 01:38.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:38.37 | kaiden | I'm having a wonderful day reading all the mifin idgets on the discord forums at wowi who just dont pay attention to anything at all :( I sure wish i had a RTFM headstamp |
| 01:51.58 | Tem | Ktron: yes |
| 01:52.25 | Tem | Ktron: AceGUI is in the process of being reworked for 1.10 |
| 01:52.30 | Tem | but it's not ready for testing yet |
| 01:54.47 | Ktron | Then maybe there's a incompatibility between Mobinfo 2 and the current version of KC items |
| 02:02.49 | Crispix | awwgh. this cold is kicking my butt .... :( |
| 02:04.16 | Crispix | I cough and it feels like my lungs are going to explode out of my chest.... yet I'm only coughing flem out of my throat.. nothing more . :( |
| 02:17.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 02:19.54 | Qzot | There's one that's going around of duration 6 weeks. |
| 02:26.10 | AnduinLothar | Push Button, Recieve Bacon. |
| 02:29.22 | Crispix | o_o |
| 02:29.29 | Crispix | Anyone awake that can help me with fishing buddy? |
| 02:36.39 | Ktron | I'm awake, but not able to help you with fishing buddy. |
| 02:49.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (n=Khamer@c-24-128-172-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.41 | Miravlix | FishingBuddy is dead, sacrificed on the Blizzard altar to improve game play. |
| 03:25.03 | Miravlix | Why it's an improvment that no one will ever get buffed I don't know. |
| 03:26.13 | Miravlix | They should havde made a list of spells that wont work hooked. |
| 03:31.13 | ckknight | such as? |
| 03:31.24 | kaiden | I'm sorry but Blizzard is full of idiots, they keep nerf'ing these api calls to stop "botters" when hooking into the games memory will never be able to be stopped |
| 03:31.27 | ckknight | and maybe the route they took was just easier |
| 03:31.31 | kaiden | And all they are doing is making the game less fun |
| 03:31.40 | ckknight | I do agree with that |
| 03:32.40 | kaiden | I'm so very close to stopping developing my libraries and quitting and moving on to something that actually peaks my interest, because the game itself certainly doesn't anymore and they are making it impossible to have a good time or be entertained otherwise |
| 03:32.59 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:33.19 | Iriel | Come on now, it's not THAT bad. |
| 03:33.53 | kaiden | How many things have they nerf'd for the sake of the game to stop botters that is still available from apps like WoWNap, or WoWGlider or WoWWalker |
| 03:34.08 | Iriel | It's NOT ALL ABOUT BOTTERS |
| 03:34.20 | Iriel | Most of the 1.10 changes are about playing the game the way the designers want it |
| 03:34.25 | Iriel | As slouken said "Smart players, not smart buttons" |
| 03:35.44 | kaiden | I return to the fact the game has 5 million players yet it's nearly impossible to get into mc capable guilds. How can people get better when it's so hard because there are so many requirements put on players and lets face it.. Not everyone that plays the game is smart :P |
| 03:36.56 | kaiden | I dunno about you Iriel, but i've played on Hyjal, Proudmoore, and Khaz Modan, and have multiple 60's on each and all i do is level characters to 60 to try to be needed in a guild. Alot of these addons do take away from the game i agree, they make classes that should be hard, extremely easy to play |
| 03:37.22 | Iriel | Allowing the UI to act as an intelligent exoskeleton so that the mediocre players can take high-end content is likeluy not what they had in mind |
| 03:37.24 | kaiden | Yet at the same time, those people that play these hard classes so easily, wouldn't play at all due to not being wanted if it was the "hard" way |
| 03:37.48 | Iriel | Well, the whole idea of 'being needed in a guild' is symptomatic of a different problem |
| 03:38.07 | ckknight | what I do is just make my own guild, then abuse my power |
| 03:39.45 | kaiden | I just wish they would stop messing with stuff. It's just my opinion they are making bad moves |
| 03:44.14 | kaiden | Iriel, and in the long run, why shouldn't mediocre players have fun too? The game is supposed to be entertainment, not nail biting work ;( |
| 03:45.04 | ckknight | I agree |
| 03:45.09 | ckknight | I want to have more fun than anything |
| 03:45.14 | ckknight | even if it is easy |
| 03:45.15 | ckknight | hehe |
| 03:45.17 | Iriel | This isn't abotu whether they have fun |
| 03:45.27 | Iriel | this is about whether they should be required to do the same amount of work as everyone else |
| 03:45.27 | kaiden | yeah nobody likes to pay money to get slapped in the face every time they turn around |
| 03:45.35 | kaiden | well .. if they have sick fetishes maybe hehe |
| 03:45.49 | ckknight | you're thinking of Masochism |
| 03:45.57 | Iriel | WoW isn't like that, you can get all the way to 60 without too much strain, true, it may take longer, true you may have to group, true you may not have a full set of purple |
| 03:46.01 | Iriel | but you'll still have a ton of fun |
| 03:46.04 | kaiden | Iriel, the same amount of work as a player who is inherently more capable mind you |
| 03:46.08 | kaiden | you have to keep that in mind as well |
| 03:46.33 | kaiden | some people are natural born at being able to multi task better, response time is faster etc.. all of that effects the game as well |
| 03:46.34 | Iriel | I am not a 'top tier' player, there are many people MUCH better at playing than me |
| 03:46.38 | Iriel | I want the world that way |
| 03:46.40 | Iriel | Otherwise it's boring |
| 03:47.01 | Iriel | Levelling the playing field in an MMO is just a waste of time |
| 03:47.07 | ckknight | I want to make money off of other people's failures |
| 03:47.11 | ckknight | how can I do that in WoW? |
| 03:47.13 | kaiden | getting to 60 is the easy part, it's post 60 i'm talking about doesn't have to be a LEVEL playing field |
| 03:47.18 | Iriel | ckknight : AH |
| 03:47.21 | kaiden | just more options for others to have fun |
| 03:47.25 | ckknight | I have been, Iriel |
| 03:47.31 | ckknight | and I make a nice profit |
| 03:47.37 | ckknight | but I want to do it moreso |
| 03:49.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Brodrick (n=Brodrick@adsl-68-127-184-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:49.55 | Brodrick | yay, another place to troll! |
| 03:50.06 | Cairenn | >< |
| 03:50.12 | Brodrick | <- Kirov |
| 03:50.16 | Cairenn | hey |
| 03:50.22 | ckknight | hey! |
| 03:50.26 | Legorol | hi Kirov |
| 03:50.32 | Brodrick | allo |
| 03:50.59 | Legorol | You know, this whole debate about whether WoW should be easy or not is moot |
| 03:51.11 | ckknight | why's that? |
| 03:51.16 | Legorol | There are two types of computer game players: those who use cheat-mode, and those who don't |
| 03:51.35 | Legorol | The first are those who get their entertainment from a sense of power and passing goals |
| 03:51.35 | ckknight | I only want to cheat a little |
| 03:51.45 | Legorol | The second are those who get their entertainment from challenge |
| 03:52.04 | Legorol | i have seen endless debates, way before MMO's, about cheat-modes, god modes etc. in games |
| 03:52.06 | Brodrick | What about those of us who play through the first 75% of a game with out cheats, get bored and just want to see the end so cheat/ |
| 03:52.20 | Legorol | there are always two groups of people and they will never agree, because it's a personal opinion |
| 03:52.31 | Iriel | That doesn't make the discussion moot |
| 03:52.36 | Iriel | It just makes it unending |
| 03:52.40 | Legorol | hehe, true |
| 03:52.48 | Legorol | i'm trying to say it will always be a matter of opinion |
| 03:53.02 | Legorol | some people will want challenge, something where there is a barrier and a feeling that they have to work to get to a goal |
| 03:53.16 | Legorol | others want to get to a goal, without effort, and use the argument that it's just a game, should be fun |
| 03:53.23 | Legorol | but people's definition of "fun" is different |
| 03:53.24 | Legorol | that's all |
| 03:54.20 | Legorol | One thing that's very interesting to watch in WoW is at what level do people go to the different instances? |
| 03:54.54 | Legorol | Again you will see two groups of people: those who want to go as early as possible, and play through them as a challenege (even the low level isntances) |
| 03:55.14 | Brodrick | the level 53s attempting MC types |
| 03:55.15 | Legorol | the other group will go when they are a bit higher level, so that the instance can be cleared quickly and easily, or maybe go with lvl 60 friends |
| 03:55.24 | Legorol | i'm not talking about end-game |
| 03:55.37 | Brodrick | I know, but still the same group of people. |
| 03:55.39 | Legorol | i fall into the first group, but i don't think MC should be attempted before 60, for various reasons |
| 03:56.30 | Legorol | One of the things that I do that always befuddles people is when I decline people's generous offers to take me through an instance, or to guide me and show me where everything is |
| 03:56.47 | Legorol | 90% of the people i met don't understand why i *don't* want them to show me where that boss is in the instance |
| 03:56.54 | Legorol | (yay for statistics made up on the spot!) |
| 04:05.52 | Iriel | Hm, has anyone played with nested virtual frames? |
| 04:06.20 | Iriel | ie <Frame name="V1" virtual="true"><Frames><Frame name="$parentChild" virtual="true"/></Frames></Frame> |
| 04:08.10 | Brodrick | not I |
| 04:09.08 | Legorol|WSG | nope |
| 04:10.22 | Iriel | Hm, guess i'll have to fire the client back iup then |
| 04:16.15 | Legorol|WSG | put the coal in, with a bit of lighter, and stoke it |
| 04:16.29 | Cairenn | lol |
| 04:18.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.26.207) |
| 04:19.53 | Qzot | Anyone know a great, trivial algorithm for find the median of a bunch of weighted sorted values? |
| 04:20.15 | Qzot | Such as *cough* one might find from scanning the AH? |
| 04:20.28 | Qzot | s/find/finding/ |
| 04:20.40 | Miravlix | The world isn't black and white, some consider decursive cheating, some consider it a major part of making the game less tedius to play. |
| 04:21.28 | Cairenn | gigo :p |
| 04:22.09 | Cairenn | if the acronym fits ... |
| 04:22.27 | Iriel | qzot Hm, if you store cumulative rather than individual scores, you could do a binary search |
| 04:23.05 | Qzot | I don't follow. |
| 04:23.20 | Legorol|WSG | if you want median, and you have it sorted and you have the weights, then it's very easy |
| 04:23.25 | Legorol|WSG | take the total weight, halve it |
| 04:23.36 | Legorol|WSG | start at the beginning, loop through entries, adding up weights |
| 04:23.41 | Legorol|WSG | until you reach half the total |
| 04:23.45 | Qzot | Yes, that's my fall-back. |
| 04:23.45 | Legorol|WSG | that entry is your median |
| 04:24.07 | Legorol|WSG | i don't think there is any other way |
| 04:24.11 | Iriel | But if you store the cumulative weighted totals, and you store them in order, then you can binary search fo rit |
| 04:24.12 | Legorol|WSG | binary search won't work because of the weights |
| 04:24.19 | Legorol|WSG | that's true |
| 04:24.20 | Iriel | which is O(log(N)) instead of O(N) |
| 04:24.25 | Legorol|WSG | if you store the cumulative as well |
| 04:24.41 | Legorol|WSG | he probably still needs individual weights too |
| 04:24.47 | Iriel | So? |
| 04:24.53 | Iriel | W[X] - W[X-1] |
| 04:24.54 | Qzot | Iriel: Please explain the search. |
| 04:25.09 | Qzot | Iriel: Nm. Brain caught up. |
| 04:25.27 | Iriel | Qzot: (1) look at the LAST value to get your total weight, and the total number of records |
| 04:25.43 | Iriel | Qzot: (2) test the middle record to see if it's the median, or lies above or below |
| 04:25.47 | Qzot | I got the search part now. Took a minute. |
| 04:25.51 | Brodrick | So, on levels of insanity... how high is porting lzw to lua to help with load times? |
| 04:26.00 | Iriel | Qzot: (3) return result, or half the search space and return to (2) |
| 04:26.17 | Iriel | Brodrick : I doubt it'd have too much impact, but it's worth a try for amusement's-sake |
| 04:26.29 | Qzot | But for me it would still be O(N), because I'd have to make a pass to transform indiv weight to cumulative. :p |
| 04:27.29 | Qzot | The best I can think of is to have a trailing index which points at the current median while the main index iterates through the entire list. |
| 04:28.29 | Iriel | Qzot: As I said, you STORE cumulative |
| 04:28.34 | Iriel | it makes updating O(N) |
| 04:28.55 | Iriel | so depending on whether you analyze or update more often, it may not be optimal |
| 04:29.19 | Qzot | Update. I'm only analyzing once per construction. |
| 04:29.43 | Cairenn | (hey guys, when you are done with this conversation, here's another for you to discuss: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3975 ) |
| 04:29.45 | Iriel | then deal with an O(N) analysis, it's unlikely to be too nasty |
| 04:30.09 | Qzot | Yeah. |
| 04:30.31 | Iriel | Cairenn : Can't you just link to the normal FAQ? |
| 04:30.57 | Cairenn | I don't have the exception in the normal FAQ yet |
| 04:31.17 | Iriel | But this is talking about delay stuff |
| 04:31.37 | Cairenn | I know, but he's not listening to me, and I can't explain it well enough |
| 04:32.08 | Qzot | Cairenn, there are people in this world who *will* not see. |
| 04:32.15 | Miravlix | Who here has done the Sweet Amber quest without any outside help? |
| 04:32.26 | Qzot | Lol. I've never heard of it. |
| 04:32.58 | Iriel | I posted a response |
| 04:33.07 | Cairenn | danke Iriel |
| 04:33.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 04:33.21 | Wobin_ | y'know, there's possibly a way to 'queue' things... |
| 04:33.37 | Wobin_ | but the most it could do is pop up a hardware event to take place when the time comes for it |
| 04:33.51 | Wobin_ | which kinda defeats the purpose |
| 04:34.12 | Legorol|WSG | Cairenn, what jaythedogg asks for is impossible |
| 04:34.12 | Legorol|WSG | but not because of what you said to him *cough cough* :D |
| 04:34.13 | Cairenn | I know that |
| 04:34.20 | Iriel | Cool, virtual works like I thought it should |
| 04:34.30 | Legorol|WSG | Iriel: how does it work |
| 04:34.44 | Legorol|WSG | Cairenn: but it's a good enough answer, and the statement that it's not possible is still true :-) |
| 04:35.05 | Iriel | Legorol|WSG : It creates templates for the 'topmost' virtual=true frame, and none of its children |
| 04:35.21 | Legorol|WSG | (btw i am conversing at the times when i'm dead, so my replies might be slow) |
| 04:35.32 | Legorol|WSG | so the virtual attrib is simply ignored? |
| 04:35.39 | Legorol|WSG | but the children still end up in the template, right? |
| 04:35.41 | Ktron | I'd like to hear whether this is an accurate way of explaining why it is impossible: Blizzard has made World of Warcraft only allow Spellcasts [or other non-trivial actions] to occur on hardware events. |
| 04:35.47 | Cairenn | oh, and Lego? he responded to me, he basically shrugged and said "yeah, if they want to lock it up for the length of time, plus most don't know so until/unless it becomes a big deal, it'll remain on the "may be fixed at some point" list |
| 04:36.03 | Legorol|WSG | cool |
| 04:36.09 | Legorol|WSG | i'll be making DoT chains then :D |
| 04:36.26 | Cairenn | which will bring about the locking down :p |
| 04:36.35 | Wobin_ | hehe buttonmash for mages |
| 04:36.48 | Miravlix | Amber is the hue of my life's longest love |
| 04:36.48 | Miravlix | Like the last embers of dusk in the sky above |
| 04:36.48 | Miravlix | Retrieve for me so that my love shall be born |
| 04:36.48 | Miravlix | One sack of each: barley, rye and corn. |
| 04:36.56 | Legorol|WSG | Cairenn: see precedent case of Kremonte vs. Fake links |
| 04:37.02 | Cairenn | I know |
| 04:37.16 | Ktron | lol, kremonte vs. fake links |
| 04:37.18 | Miravlix | Thats the quest you have to find a sack of barley, rye and corn somewhere in the world from that. |
| 04:37.20 | Legorol|WSG | the thing is, i know Blizz has enough on their plates |
| 04:37.25 | Legorol|WSG | so i don't want to give them extra work |
| 04:37.28 | Legorol|WSG | hence i will keep quiet |
| 04:37.34 | Ktron | kremonte, living proof that ui designers can make blizzard patch |
| 04:37.40 | Wobin_ | barley is from Westfall isn't it? |
| 04:37.40 | Legorol|WSG | lol |
| 04:37.46 | Wobin_ | or is that corn? |
| 04:37.46 | Iriel | Even more interesting, only top-level (in the XML file) frames have their virtual attribute obeyed |
| 04:37.53 | Qzot | Miravlix: Would you prefer us to link you to the walkthrough for it, or would you prefer a hack that actually drives your character. <--JOKE |
| 04:39.05 | Wobin_ | (and on a cuter, fluffier completely OT note... http://community.livejournal.com/baaaaabyanimals/1848163.html ) |
| 04:39.32 | Qzot | What is 'Kremonte vs. Fake links'? |
| 04:39.38 | Cairenn | Legorol|WSG: actually, here's the direct quote: |
| 04:39.38 | Cairenn | "(00:33:31) Slouken: If you're willing to sit for a few seconds watching the game freeze, well... sure |
| 04:39.38 | Cairenn | (00:33:38) Cairenn: yeah, but still |
| 04:39.38 | Cairenn | (00:33:44) ***Slouken shrugs |
| 04:39.39 | Cairenn | (00:33:53) Slouken: We'll probably fix that at some point |
| 04:39.39 | Cairenn | (00:34:13) Slouken: No need to rock the boat any more than necessary." |
| 04:39.50 | Wobin_ | A psuedo precedent case |
| 04:40.19 | Qzot | s/is/is the pseudo-precedent case of/ |
| 04:41.04 | Miravlix | Some misguided people will call it cheating to get outside help, but outside help is pretty much the point of MMORPG's. |
| 04:42.14 | Qzot | Miravlix: I'm with you. I think I find a nice balance of solving puzzles, and going to Thottbot. I know other people have very different balance points. |
| 04:42.50 | Legorol|WSG | i find a nice balance between solving puzzles and asking others in-game |
| 04:42.54 | Legorol|WSG | i don't go to Thottbot |
| 04:43.03 | Legorol|WSG | if i'm getting outside help, i want it to be from people |
| 04:43.16 | Legorol|WSG | fortunately my guild knows me, and knows that if i ask for help, they are not supposed to look it up on thottbot |
| 04:43.21 | Qzot | I prefer it from other people. But as a crafter, I'm pretty much tied to thottbot. |
| 04:43.22 | Legorol|WSG | and just reply "sorry don't know" if they don't know |
| 04:43.28 | ckknight | databases are my friend |
| 04:43.34 | Legorol|WSG | Qzot: how so? |
| 04:44.02 | Legorol|WSG | please note i am in no way saying people shouldn't use TB, it's there for people's enjoyment |
| 04:44.10 | Qzot | I enjoy it. |
| 04:44.13 | Wobin_ | to find mats, I guess? |
| 04:44.23 | Legorol|WSG | i know there are lot of "collectors" who like to have all recipes |
| 04:44.24 | Legorol|WSG | TB is invaluable for them |
| 04:44.38 | Qzot | I can T'bot to identify recipes I want to look for, to find out-of-the-way vendors I overlooked. |
| 04:44.47 | Qzot | s/can/scan |
| 04:45.13 | Miravlix | Thottbot is people |
| 04:45.35 | Qzot | When I was leveling enchanting, I carefully planned out the mats I would need to take into Ulda to minimize the number of enchanting-only Ulda runs I was going to force my friends through. |
| 04:45.46 | Qzot | Hey. Get along. |
| 04:45.58 | Miravlix | The community of quest solvers and item finders find there outlet with sites like Thottbot it's done by people for people |
| 04:46.12 | Miravlix | This community building is the point of MMORPGs |
| 04:46.15 | Qzot | I can understand Lego's position. It seems reasonable to me. I'm at a different place on the sceptrum. |
| 04:46.42 | Qzot | What is *wrong* with my typing tonight? |
| 04:46.47 | Miravlix | I can if we talked a single player offline game |
| 04:46.56 | Miravlix | But he is going against the veyr spirit of the game |
| 04:47.02 | Qzot | Anyway, my 11yo awaits me in-world. Catch you all late.r |
| 04:47.13 | Cairenn | later Qzot |
| 04:47.33 | Legorol|WSG | Miravlix, i don't think asking people for help is against the spirit |
| 04:47.35 | Qzot | Yes, it's so much fun to be a level 12 shaman. |
| 04:47.40 | Legorol|WSG | and i'd rather ask talking living people than a database |
| 04:47.54 | Legorol|WSG | i agree that TB is just a bigger collection of knowledge |
| 04:48.16 | Legorol|WSG | i have access to less info this way, but i still do have access to info, as others will have found other things in my guild |
| 04:49.22 | Legorol | bha, lost |
| 04:49.29 | Miravlix | I won. :p |
| 04:50.31 | Legorol | WSG, silly.. :-) |
| 04:50.39 | Miravlix | I won WSG |
| 04:50.44 | Legorol | ah cool! |
| 04:51.03 | Legorol | well, i'm test-driving this L60 druid on the test realm |
| 04:51.10 | Legorol | not too bad, but got to get the hang of it. |
| 04:51.14 | Legorol | run out of mana way too quick |
| 04:51.22 | Legorol | team mates just need too much healing :D |
| 04:51.43 | Miravlix | Then you need healing toucher or all healing ranks on your hot bars |
| 04:51.49 | Legorol | and i don't like silly mages, i ask them politely for water, and even say to do it at their convenience |
| 04:52.01 | Legorol | what do i get? a flat-out "no" |
| 04:52.09 | Legorol | that saves me mana, because then i don't have to heal that idiot :D |
| 04:52.40 | Legorol | Mira, give me some advice for druiding in WSG.. |
| 04:52.51 | Legorol | i have rejuv/regrow/healtouch all handy |
| 04:52.58 | Legorol | tend to use the first two, i found healtouch too slow |
| 04:53.30 | Legorol | is that true or am i just playing it bad :-) |
| 04:55.41 | Miravlix | You shouldn't heal at all in WSG |
| 04:55.47 | Miravlix | You should be flag carrying |
| 04:56.34 | Miravlix | It's the single biggest complaint about WSG that druids exist. |
| 04:57.04 | Wobin_ | Any advice for a prospective priest in PvP? |
| 04:58.09 | Legorol | if i don't heal, then noone does :( |
| 04:58.20 | Legorol | so are druids so good with flag? |
| 04:58.24 | Legorol | are they better than shamans? |
| 04:58.30 | Legorol | shamans have ghost wolf too... |
| 04:58.34 | Legorol | what makes druids better? |
| 04:58.53 | Wobin_ | travelform? |
| 04:58.59 | Wobin_ | or similar? |
| 04:59.02 | Legorol | yeah but shamans have that too |
| 04:59.38 | Legorol | also i find that the "druid sneaks in, and runs out with flag" is more suited to solo hit-and-run tactics, and doesn't work against better opponents |
| 05:00.47 | Shadowd | If you have a good team a druid's great |
| 05:01.34 | Miravlix | We switch out of all roots and snares |
| 05:01.46 | Miravlix | Our weakness is fear thats a lot less of |
| 05:01.53 | Legorol | true |
| 05:02.15 | Miravlix | You can't stop a druid that doesn't want to be stopped. |
| 05:03.02 | Miravlix | He will shift out of all slowing effects and be off, it helps with epic mounts to chase him, but then the team keeps him alive |
| 05:04.30 | Legorol | i see |
| 05:04.36 | Legorol | problem is the "team" bit then |
| 05:04.36 | Wobin_ | hehe travelform->catdash =) |
| 05:04.43 | Legorol | PUGs on the test realm are horrible :( |
| 05:08.34 | Miravlix | Most of them is prolly noobs thats never played a 60 before. :) |
| 05:09.27 | Legorol | the thing i don't understand is that as far as group-play is concerned, the game doesn't seem different at 60 than at any other level |
| 05:09.34 | Legorol | so why are these people so bad? |
| 05:09.48 | Legorol | they must be just bad, full stop. |
| 05:10.14 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 05:10.17 | Legorol | i don't have a L60, yet i reckon i'm doing better with an unfamiliar class than most poeple around |
| 05:10.32 | Wobin_ | Although, group play is developed over time as you level up |
| 05:10.35 | Legorol | i guess one can argue that players "mature" as they get to 60 |
| 05:10.44 | Wobin_ | if you're a solo style player, you never learn those tactics |
| 05:10.53 | Legorol | but then again you can practice proper group play at low levels |
| 05:10.58 | Wobin_ | Leg: I'd not necessarily argue that =P |
| 05:11.00 | Legorol | i spend ages in WSG at no matter what level |
| 05:11.06 | Legorol | Wobin_, i think we are agreeing |
| 05:11.11 | Wobin_ | yeah =) |
| 05:11.20 | Wobin_ | But 60 ~= mature, unfortunately =) |
| 05:11.36 | Wobin_ | That's often why hunters are so maligned |
| 05:11.51 | Wobin_ | Aside from the CGFs etc, it's incredibly easy to solo up to 60 |
| 05:11.57 | Wobin_ | (compared to other classes) |
| 05:12.06 | Miravlix | It takes some time to get to 60 |
| 05:12.11 | Miravlix | So more time to learn to team |
| 05:12.30 | Wobin_ | so when they crit 5 times in a row, gain aggro, FD, then watch the healer get killed they're like "What?! What I do?" |
| 05:13.59 | Miravlix | And the game is fairly different, at 60 all you do is team |
| 05:14.09 | Miravlix | You can level up without teaming much |
| 05:14.31 | Miravlix | Nothing actually |
| 05:14.42 | Miravlix | Thats how hutners play |
| 05:14.52 | Miravlix | It's not there fault the healer takes agro at that point |
| 05:15.02 | Miravlix | It's the tanks that failed to hold agro over the healer |
| 05:15.13 | Wobin_ | not necessarily |
| 05:15.37 | Miravlix | We have a hate list the healer is higher on the hate list than the tank after the hunter clear his hate |
| 05:15.40 | Wobin_ | the hunters can control the amount of aggro also by stopping shooting when they gain a lot of crits |
| 05:16.02 | Wobin_ | allowing the tanks to regain more aggro |
| 05:16.20 | Miravlix | Thats a different aspect |
| 05:16.24 | Wobin_ | it's not really a competition to see who can get more aggro |
| 05:16.44 | Miravlix | I agree that the hunter shouldn't have pulled agro of the tank, but the healer shouldn't be the next on the hate list after the hunter |
| 05:16.56 | Wobin_ | Cause it's not fair on the tanks if say, the mage/lock and hunter all go full out |
| 05:17.24 | Wobin_ | the priest has to heal the aggro gainer to keep them alive, and thus gets pegged on the aggro list |
| 05:17.26 | Miravlix | But you said hunters pulled agro and that killed healers |
| 05:17.34 | Miravlix | Then the tank is doing something horrible wrong |
| 05:17.38 | Wobin_ | yes, I'm saying it's a bad tactic =P |
| 05:17.58 | Wobin_ | The thing is you can't just blame the tank for 'not keeping aggro' |
| 05:18.07 | Miravlix | The tank should ALWAYS be higher on the hate list than the healer or the tank has failed his job |
| 05:18.34 | Wobin_ | The tank is one player, if you've got 3 high dps groupmembers not controlling the damage they do, there's not much a tank can do |
| 05:18.34 | Miravlix | Yes you can, if it kills the healer because of the situation |
| 05:18.44 | Wobin_ | yes yes |
| 05:18.49 | Wobin_ | but you can't just blame the tank |
| 05:18.53 | Miravlix | If it kills someone else it's fine, but damn never the healer |
| 05:19.07 | Wobin_ | it's also the fault of the highdps players for not controlling the amount of damage they do |
| 05:19.13 | Miravlix | No |
| 05:19.30 | Miravlix | 1: Tank loose agro to hunter |
| 05:19.35 | Miravlix | 2: hunter FD |
| 05:19.40 | Miravlix | 3: Tank regains agro |
| 05:19.49 | Wobin_ | Blame the priest then |
| 05:19.51 | Miravlix | If it's 1: Tank loose agro |
| 05:19.54 | Miravlix | 2: Hunter FD |
| 05:19.59 | Miravlix | 3: Healer gets whacked |
| 05:20.01 | Wobin_ | It's the priests fault for putting themself above the hunter on aggro |
| 05:20.03 | Miravlix | then it's Tank fault |
| 05:20.33 | ckknight | well, the priest could be right behind the hunter |
| 05:20.43 | Miravlix | He didn't do a good enough job to have a decent hate standing with the mob |
| 05:20.46 | ckknight | the tank loses aggro to just below the hunter and priest |
| 05:20.49 | ckknight | then the hunter Fds |
| 05:21.08 | Wobin_ | So the tank is to blame all the time? |
| 05:21.21 | ckknight | yes? |
| 05:21.30 | ckknight | healers heal, it's what they do |
| 05:21.48 | Miravlix | Putting it black and white, then yes Tank is always to blame unless healer over hate |
| 05:21.53 | Wobin_ | I'm not going to heal a hunter that gains aggro before he does =P |
| 05:21.55 | ckknight | if they gain too much aggro, the tank shoul try to get more |
| 05:22.00 | Wobin_ | Nothing is ever black and white =P |
| 05:22.08 | Ktron | it's always the priest's fault, they're supposed to keep everyone alive, so when someone dies, they failed |
| 05:22.13 | Ktron | end of story gg |
| 05:22.15 | Ktron | ;) |
| 05:22.17 | ckknight | lol |
| 05:22.23 | Miravlix | In the perfect team it's much easier to go with black and white |
| 05:22.31 | Wobin_ | In the perfect team *cough* |
| 05:22.34 | Codayus | Depends on the encounter really. |
| 05:22.39 | Wobin_ | in the perfect team it's never an issue =P |
| 05:22.39 | Miravlix | thats why we min max our PvE ability |
| 05:22.53 | Wobin_ | Everyone controls their aggro perfectly, the tank never loses it, and pigs fly. |
| 05:22.55 | ckknight | what is min max? |
| 05:23.01 | Codayus | ZF isn't really the same thing as MC, which isn't the same thing as AQ... |
| 05:23.16 | Miravlix | min maxing, old d&d term for making the perfect char |
| 05:23.24 | ckknight | okay |
| 05:23.28 | Miravlix | By minimizaing useless stuff and maximizing usefull |
| 05:23.34 | ckknight | my friends played D&D in high school |
| 05:23.36 | ckknight | what nerds. |
| 05:23.49 | Codayus | If their's knockback, fears, or other aggro wipes, then you can't always blame the tank. |
| 05:24.04 | Wobin_ | Mr ckknight, you have a call from Mr Pot. It's about his colour =) |
| 05:24.07 | Miravlix | Now thats something else entirely |
| 05:24.19 | ckknight | Wobin_, I don't like D&D |
| 05:24.21 | ckknight | too slow-paced |
| 05:24.27 | ckknight | and I have issues with my imagination |
| 05:24.59 | Wobin_ | All I'm saying is that everyone has their responsiblities. |
| 05:25.02 | Miravlix | You can blame the hunter if he doesn't FD |
| 05:25.18 | Wobin_ | The high dps players must control their damage output so as not to pull from the tank |
| 05:25.18 | Miravlix | Because then the healer has to heal him and gains extra hate than normal |
| 05:25.22 | Codayus | If a tank loses aggro to a hunter, then the hunter almost has to be at fault. To a healer...could be the healer, probably is the tank. |
| 05:25.29 | ckknight | fears should be dispelled :-P |
| 05:25.55 | Wobin_ | The whole point is to keep aggro on the taqnk |
| 05:26.02 | Wobin_ | so the healer only has to heal the tank |
| 05:26.15 | Codayus | Hunter's can choose to cut their DPS, and have FD. A healer can't choose to not heal. (Of course, if the priest was mind blasting, or rampantly overhealing, or never fades...then...maybe...) |
| 05:26.22 | Wobin_ | if the high dps players keep pulling aggro, it increases the number of people the healer must heal |
| 05:26.32 | Miravlix | I only heal the tank, everyone else dies if they pull agro. :p |
| 05:26.41 | Wobin_ | and ramps up their standing on the aggro list |
| 05:27.01 | Wobin_ | well, Miravlix, that's called tough teaching =) |
| 05:27.16 | ckknight | not tough love? |
| 05:27.23 | ckknight | I like tough love |
| 05:27.26 | ckknight | it's like normal love |
| 05:27.28 | Wobin_ | probably, I've only just woken up =) |
| 05:27.32 | ckknight | only with sadomasochism |
| 05:28.05 | Miravlix | If I die the team dies, so I keep my hate in check to match the tank |
| 05:28.08 | Wobin_ | And with that in mind.... *goes off to get a cuppa* |
| 05:28.28 | ckknight | I wish there was an aggro meter... |
| 05:28.54 | Codayus | As a priest, I *never* have problems pulling aggro. Admittedly, I'm alliance ez-mode and usually have Salvation though... |
| 05:29.02 | Miravlix | But in a pug thinks goes wrong, because you never know how good the tank is |
| 05:29.13 | Wobin_ | yeah |
| 05:29.27 | Codayus | And I'm almost never on a raid where my brother (who's a very good tank) isn't MT. That probably helps more than anything. PUG tanks...ew. |
| 05:29.29 | Wobin_ | fadefadefadefade |
| 05:29.33 | Miravlix | The team should be able to deal with it though |
| 05:29.39 | Wobin_ | You'd hope |
| 05:30.19 | Miravlix | and the recovery from pulling agro by the hunter is FD |
| 05:30.42 | Ktron | heh, anyone heard of Elite Skill? |
| 05:30.46 | Wobin_ | If hunters used FD like priests used Fade.... |
| 05:30.53 | Ktron | it's a guild on Zul'jin, the GM has banned hunters from using FD |
| 05:31.01 | Ktron | he thinks it screws up aggro |
| 05:31.05 | Codayus | Ideally, the hunter should be hitting FD often enough he never pulls aggro. Not important in low level content, but vs Onyxia, it only takes a second of aggro swapping... |
| 05:31.06 | ckknight | ... |
| 05:31.09 | Codayus | Heh, I've heard of him. |
| 05:31.10 | Ktron | er, thrat |
| 05:31.11 | Wobin_ | (ie before the priest has to heal them) |
| 05:31.12 | Codayus | He's famous! |
| 05:31.17 | Ktron | heh, just a little |
| 05:31.22 | Codayus | Wobin_: Good hunters do. |
| 05:31.27 | Miravlix | Ktron: A hunter in a raid guild that pulls agro off the tank? |
| 05:31.28 | Wobin_ | yeah =) |
| 05:31.36 | Miravlix | It's that wrong in the first place. |
| 05:31.43 | Miravlix | Isn't that wrong, even |
| 05:32.01 | Ktron | well, you can feign death preemptively too |
| 05:32.03 | Wobin_ | a stupidly long chain of crits can do that |
| 05:32.04 | Codayus | Set up a 10s shot cycle, and every 3 cycles you hit FD...no exceptions. If the FD is resisted, skip AS on the next cycle. |
| 05:32.06 | Ktron | to reset your threat, I believe |
| 05:32.29 | Ktron | yeah... But he has banned it completely |
| 05:32.34 | Wobin_ | The thing is, Miravlix, it -can- happen =P |
| 05:32.42 | Codayus | Stupid hunters keep shooting after FD is resisted. Really stupid hunters don't FD until they crit. :-) |
| 05:33.16 | Codayus | That's against high end raid content though - not Uldaman. :-P |
| 05:33.17 | Wobin_ | Yay for Improved FD =P |
| 05:33.26 | Brodrick | That depends on if you're horde or alliance though |
| 05:33.34 | Brodrick | Alliance hunters can get away with being lazy |
| 05:33.45 | Wobin_ | Why's that? |
| 05:34.11 | Miravlix | Salvation isn't the solution to all problems in the world |
| 05:34.16 | Wobin_ | ah |
| 05:34.23 | Wobin_ | rofl |
| 05:34.33 | Miravlix | But it does allow 30% more hate |
| 05:34.34 | Wobin_ | That could so be taken out of context =) |
| 05:34.56 | Codayus | Brodrick: Um...not really, in my experience. Salvation makes a stupid hunter wipe the raid a minute later than they otherwise would, but a hunter with good gear will still pull agro given time... <shrug> That's my experience. |
| 05:35.42 | Miravlix | Does FD clean the hate list? |
| 05:35.48 | Codayus | (If you're hanging around IF and really bored, go on a PUG Onyxia run sometime. Loads of laughs as you watch idiots DPS right through a salvation buff, draw aggro, and wipe the raid.) |
| 05:35.50 | Wobin_ | for the hunter |
| 05:35.52 | Miravlix | Or is the hate list only for xx minutes? |
| 05:36.26 | Wobin_ | The problem with Raid instances is that the fights are too long for salvation to be helpful |
| 05:36.39 | Wobin_ | (well, -as- helpful) |
| 05:37.29 | Codayus | Nothing beats the time a palladin used Divine Intervention...on the MT...in the middle of a fight. Versus an Onyxia Warder, not Onyxia though, so that was a small mercy. :-P |
| 05:37.31 | Miravlix | I still love that 34 druids did Onyxia |
| 05:37.42 | Wobin_ | rofl |
| 05:37.45 | Miravlix | Who needs anyone else. :p |
| 05:38.02 | Brodrick | You still need to FD, but continuing the fire after FD resists isn't going to cause you get aggro. |
| 05:38.03 | Ktron | how many druids were alive at the end? |
| 05:38.07 | Codayus | The 14 priest (I think it was 14) UBRS run was pretty amusing too. :-P |
| 05:38.07 | Miravlix | And it was semi PuG style |
| 05:38.39 | Brodrick | The warriors in my guild are good enough to keep agro on most mobs even when I go all out on all but some of the AQ bosses and Broodlord |
| 05:38.53 | Miravlix | The biggest problem was oomkins, but with 34 combat rezzes no problem is as big as it seems |
| 05:40.10 | Wobin_ | I think a large problem remains with players who -do- get aggro, but then think. OMG they're coming towards me! Quick BLAST 'EM TO DEATH before they get here! |
| 05:40.35 | Codayus | Hey, it's better than the ones who decide to run away to lose aggro. |
| 05:40.40 | Miravlix | The biggest problem is pulling more than one mob |
| 05:40.53 | Miravlix | and the AoE'ers let loss like there was no tomorrow on the adds |
| 05:41.05 | Codayus | run...away...around the corner...out of LOS....down the hall...into another 6 mobs |
| 05:42.06 | Shadowd | What Miravlix said |
| 05:42.44 | Miravlix | Hunters is the worst here because Multi-shot is part of there solo game play |
| 05:42.55 | Miravlix | So when they hit an instance, they hit that multi-shot all the time |
| 05:43.54 | Wobin_ | Too true |
| 05:44.15 | Codayus | Not really a problem in MC. Can be...quite amusing if there's CC around. |
| 05:45.08 | Miravlix | Talking 5-10 man instances, especially pre 55+ instances |
| 05:45.20 | Codayus | Heh |
| 05:45.22 | Codayus | Yeah |
| 05:45.25 | Miravlix | But I've been on BRS runs where hunters does it |
| 05:45.25 | Qzot | How many of the high-end bosses involves multiple fights at the same time? |
| 05:45.52 | Codayus | Qzot: Multiple mobs at the same time? Lots. |
| 05:46.15 | Miravlix | Multiple mobs is one of the big ways to make things complicated |
| 05:46.27 | Qzot | And is the order of the day basically to have dps focus fire on one at a time? |
| 05:46.32 | Codayus | 3 of the first 4 MC fights do, for example. And I think all the ZG fights do... |
| 05:46.38 | Miravlix | One mob isa lot easier to deal with, but still most of the challenge is in hate handling. |
| 05:46.41 | Shadowd | Yeah a fair bit |
| 05:47.28 | Qzot | (Disclaimer: Never done much high end instancing, so I know not of what I speak...) |
| 05:47.39 | Codayus | First AQ20 boss fight doesn't have any adds...just 1 guy, straight up. |
| 05:47.48 | Shadowd | AQ20 is a pain |
| 05:47.54 | Shadowd | infact, brb hunter boss |
| 05:47.58 | Codayus | Heh |
| 05:48.00 | Qzot | Could the dpsers throttle back their dps by switching fire temporarily to one of the mobs being off-tanked? |
| 05:48.04 | Miravlix | Part of AQ20 is pug'able to farm those new spells |
| 05:48.34 | Miravlix | But the wast majority of it, requires experinced teamwork |
| 05:48.36 | Qzot | So that they're splitting their hate, while the MT and OT are focusing theirs on one mob? |
| 05:48.40 | Shadowd | Stingers can go to hell |
| 05:48.55 | Codayus | Qzot: Well...sorta. But sometimes the encounter really relies on getting a mob down quickly so people can move on to the next stage. |
| 05:49.09 | Shadowd | Rogues and hunters should really never be pulling aggro with salv and if they know what they're doing |
| 05:49.36 | Qzot | Yeah, I understand that. But if you need to throttle, it seems like you can redirect the damage to an alternate target rather than dropping dps. |
| 05:49.45 | Shadowd | Not really, just slow down a little. |
| 05:49.49 | Qzot | Rogues are stuck, of course, because of combo points. |
| 05:50.00 | Shadowd | Rogue's should never need to throttle there damage period |
| 05:50.19 | Qzot | So it's mostly mages and hunters that need to throttle. |
| 05:50.29 | Shadowd | Not even Hunters, just don't open up |
| 05:50.33 | Miravlix | Warlocks |
| 05:50.47 | Wobin_ | Warlocks can switch to dots |
| 05:50.51 | Miravlix | DPS warriors? |
| 05:50.56 | Qzot | Hmm. My lock is only 58. I usually end up spending most of my time round-robin dotting. |
| 05:51.02 | Shadowd | I havn't really had any issues with needing to hold back as a Warrior so far |
| 05:51.15 | Wobin_ | warriors tend to have the armour to survive |
| 05:51.20 | Shadowd | Since unless the boss has a high damage AE it's not like i'm hitting as hard or as often as a Rogue. |
| 05:51.21 | Qzot | DPS warrior is fine if he takes agro. He's still got a high armor class. |
| 05:51.28 | Miravlix | It's not the armor that keeps a tank alive |
| 05:51.34 | Shadowd | Not really, some fights if you take aggro you can still wipe the raid. |
| 05:51.36 | Miravlix | Unless it's a bear. :p |
| 05:51.47 | Codayus | Warriors can just change stances - they get -threat when not in defensive, which is nice. |
| 05:51.56 | Qzot | Really? Okay. As I said, I'm not familiar with high end. |
| 05:52.08 | Codayus | Between that and salvation, a DPS warrior should NEVER draw aggro. |
| 05:52.20 | Wobin_ | again, it's about controlling damage output |
| 05:52.22 | Codayus | (Horde side, dunno. Not there, can't speak for it.) |
| 05:52.33 | Miravlix | Who cares about horde. |
| 05:52.39 | Miravlix | O.o |
| 05:52.41 | Qzot | I'm horde. :D |
| 05:52.48 | Qzot | again, because of guild choice. :( |
| 05:52.50 | Shadowd | You should never have to switch warriors mid fight due to aggro |
| 05:52.59 | Miravlix | I'm making a blood elf hunter! |
| 05:53.19 | Codayus | Shadowd: Well, unless it's an encounter designed around that. |
| 05:53.21 | Shadowd | You really wont pull aggro as a Warrior unless you're really stupid on a boss fight. |
| 05:53.30 | Codayus | Spider in ZG, earwig in AQ20...but yeah. |
| 05:53.35 | Qzot | I want a pandaran hunter with a panda pet. |
| 05:53.45 | Shadowd | you shouldn't have to switch it due to damage aggro though not because thats how the boss works |
| 05:53.49 | Qzot | And I want a heart-shaped balloon off-hand weapon. |
| 05:54.12 | Miravlix | The new alliance race is quilboars |
| 05:54.22 | Ktron | lol... where is that coming from mira? |
| 05:54.26 | Codayus | Many tanks take a +threat skill. All will be in defensive (+threat). DPS warriors will be in a different stance (-threat). Alltold, DPS warriors shouldn't have a problem. |
| 05:54.36 | Shadowd | Plus +15% extra through |
| 05:54.42 | Shadowd | s/through/though/ |
| 05:54.55 | Shadowd | Since usually the guild's MT in MC/BWL/AQ will be prot spec |
| 05:55.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.58 | Shadowd | So basically you have +25% extra threat being generated, and a ton more rage then they will to tank with |
| 05:56.42 | Ktron | Miravlix; why do you say quillboars/ |
| 05:56.48 | Ktron | heh... you know what sucks a TON |
| 05:57.08 | Miravlix | Hey they actually make some sense |
| 05:57.14 | Miravlix | Compared to Panderans |
| 05:57.21 | Ktron | walking around in STV with my 35 mage, hoping that just one 37-38 shadowmaw panther pops out |
| 05:57.23 | Ktron | heh |
| 05:57.46 | Miravlix | We know it's an ugly race, it's already in the current world |
| 05:58.03 | Ktron | My votes are for Worgen and Draenei as most likely, and Furbolg as third most likely |
| 05:58.25 | Wobin_ | Worgen would be cool |
| 05:58.27 | Qzot | I doubt Furbolg. |
| 05:58.28 | Miravlix | Has to be a Kalemdor race |
| 05:58.41 | Ktron | Worgen and Draenei can go anywhere |
| 05:58.42 | Miravlix | Blood Elf is eastern kingdom |
| 05:58.52 | Codayus | On paper, Pandaren fit the bill very closely, with the exception of needing a link to the Outlands. |
| 05:58.53 | Wobin_ | As long as they had some suitably snarly voices voicing them |
| 05:58.53 | Qzot | Furbolg are cute enough that it wouldn't change the alliance/horde balance enough. |
| 05:58.57 | Ktron | and I agree, Kalimdor is where I expect it, near the night elves probably |
| 05:59.09 | Miravlix | Panda isn't in game |
| 05:59.12 | Qzot | Not Pandaren, either. |
| 05:59.13 | Miravlix | It's a joke |
| 05:59.20 | Ktron | I believe the report that it was going to be pandaren and they changed it because of China |
| 05:59.34 | Codayus | <shrug> Being a joke doesn't mean it won't happen. |
| 05:59.42 | Qzot | Blizzard needs a race that sounds good on paper, but less people actually choose to play. They need to balance A v H. |
| 05:59.48 | Codayus | Although I don't think it particularly likely. |
| 05:59.53 | Ktron | (China has some thing where their national animal can't be hurt in a game, ie no killing of pandas or pandaren) |
| 06:00.17 | Codayus | Ktron: WarIII had killable pandas, and they didn't care. I find that argument entirely unpursuasive. |
| 06:00.20 | Ktron | not many people would play Draenei |
| 06:00.24 | Miravlix | Panda is Blizzards favorit joke, Panda Pizza, Panda Pet, Panda race |
| 06:00.24 | Qzot | Exactly. |
| 06:00.38 | Codayus | Well, favorite joke after the cow thing. |
| 06:00.46 | Codayus | And they ALREADY added cows as a playable race. :-P |
| 06:00.49 | Miravlix | Panda was created by bliz |
| 06:00.52 | Miravlix | the cow is our doing |
| 06:00.54 | Ktron | Codayus; I heard something along those lines a bunch of times from lots of people, and furthermore, I've seen believeable screenshots of the pandren model as a player race in WoW |
| 06:01.08 | Qzot | That's why my vote is with Draenei. Further, the people who *would* play Draenei are currently drawn to Horde. So it mixes things up better. |
| 06:01.23 | Codayus | Draenei make some sense on paper, but where are the Draeni in Kalimdor? |
| 06:01.36 | Ktron | Worgen I think would look like a horde race |
| 06:01.45 | Ktron | and having a storyline to summon worgen is easy |
| 06:01.46 | Qzot | None that I know of. All on Azeroth. |
| 06:01.50 | Wobin_ | like the bloodelves dont? |
| 06:01.57 | Ktron | and Worgen (and Draenei) are associated with the outlands |
| 06:02.04 | Codayus | *nod* And I think the Alliance race will have to be in Kalimdor... |
| 06:02.14 | Ktron | Draenei can go anywhere |
| 06:02.31 | Qzot | Why Alliance race in Kalimdor? |
| 06:02.41 | Miravlix | Because Blood is in Eastern |
| 06:02.42 | Codayus | Furbolgs actually make a bit of sense...apart from the outlands thing. They've already got a capital city, if memory serves. |
| 06:02.58 | Ktron | They can jsut add a village somewhere... someone did say that blizzard said there's not enough draenei to make a race |
| 06:03.02 | Miravlix | And it's in Kalimdor |
| 06:03.07 | Ktron | yeah, 5 per continent makes sense |
| 06:03.09 | Codayus | Qzot: Keeps the continents balanced. It used to be 2H/1A vs 2A/1H |
| 06:03.12 | Ktron | 3 and 2, 2 and 3 |
| 06:03.24 | Qzot | Hmm. Actually, my guess is that when they announce the alliance, they'll annoucne two, plus another horde race. |
| 06:03.29 | Codayus | Er, yeah, 3, not 2. |
| 06:03.44 | Ktron | Qzot; no, they won't do that |
| 06:03.51 | Ktron | Qzot; they'd want to tell us that they're doing that much |
| 06:04.05 | Ktron | Qzot; I can't imagine they'll announce more than one race period |
| 06:04.41 | Miravlix | Naah we need the new area we get with the crusade |
| 06:04.45 | Codayus | Naa, I think it'll be pandas, draenei, or furbolgs. Probably pandas, is my guess. |
| 06:05.00 | Miravlix | Then they can put the new races after they open the portal to emerald dream or whatever. |
| 06:05.05 | Codayus | Although I'll be damned if I see how they have a connection to the outlands. |
| 06:05.17 | Qzot | If they do 2 races each, they still have time to announce way before release, the surprise is a big publicity bump, plus they have more effective tools for pulling past players back onto their subscription rolls. |
| 06:05.31 | Miravlix | It wont be pandas, we know that 100% |
| 06:05.49 | Codayus | Miravlix: Really? Why? |
| 06:05.52 | Ktron | Qzot; but they won |
| 06:06.05 | Miravlix | Because Pandas aren't in game |
| 06:06.06 | Ktron | Qzot; there's too much work to do, and they're not keeping up with there current work |
| 06:06.16 | Miravlix | And they wont add a new race that isn't in game already |
| 06:06.31 | Qzot | Agreed. |
| 06:06.58 | Qzot | Sounds like you guys have taps into Blizz' expansion dev team. |
| 06:07.22 | Qzot | I'm assuming that the expansion team and the live team are mostly separated. |
| 06:07.52 | Wobin_ | Naga! |
| 06:07.57 | Qzot | And that part of the reason the live team is starved is because of the massive amount of work needed for the expansion. |
| 06:08.03 | Wobin_ | Kobolds! |
| 06:08.13 | Wobin_ | I'd love to run around screaming YOU NO TAKE CANDLE! |
| 06:08.26 | Ktron | you weren't around for my 'creep races' idea, were you? |
| 06:08.34 | Wobin_ | I was =) |
| 06:08.37 | Wobin_ | Briefly |
| 06:08.39 | Ktron | heh |
| 06:08.44 | Ktron | lol |
| 06:08.49 | Ktron | It's just a pipe dream |
| 06:08.56 | Ktron | just like real war borders it |
| 06:09.01 | Wobin_ | I used to do that on a MUD |
| 06:09.02 | Ktron | s/it/are |
| 06:09.04 | Codayus | Miravlix: Naa, I don't think it will matter whether they're in game yet or not... |
| 06:09.11 | Wobin_ | Take over an npc and freak out the players |
| 06:09.26 | Miravlix | Cod: Blizzard has said so themself, the alliance race is in game |
| 06:09.36 | Codayus | Hrm. |
| 06:09.41 | Codayus | Haven't seen that. |
| 06:09.46 | Wobin_ | Sea Giants |
| 06:10.01 | Codayus | And depending on how they phrased ot...their ARE pandas in the game, you know. :-P |
| 06:10.04 | Miravlix | The 3 rules confirmed by blue is ugly, and in game |
| 06:10.05 | Codayus | s/it/ot |
| 06:10.08 | Wobin_ | Hehe the new Alliance Race. Critters |
| 06:10.30 | Qzot | They confirmed 'ugly'? |
| 06:10.40 | Wobin_ | to balance out the pretty |
| 06:10.46 | Wobin_ | murlocs |
| 06:10.47 | Shadowd|StupidAQ | But we have Gnome's |
| 06:10.52 | Miravlix | I forgot the wording |
| 06:10.53 | Shadowd|StupidAQ | and Dwarves |
| 06:10.55 | Qzot | I'm surprised (that they confirmed, not that it's true). Do you have a link? |
| 06:11.00 | Miravlix | But it's not a sexy race |
| 06:11.12 | Qzot | Gnomes are not ugly. They can be downright cute. |
| 06:11.27 | Miravlix | Gnome females is darn sexy |
| 06:11.47 | ckknight | sexy to a pedophile |
| 06:11.50 | Qzot | Dwarf females are ugly, but those dwarf males turn me on. |
| 06:12.09 | ckknight | not all dwarf females are ugly |
| 06:12.10 | Qzot | Esp their pick-up lines that reference alcoholism. |
| 06:12.14 | Miravlix | I don't have any links for all the stuff, I don't really care what the new stuff is going to be. :) |
| 06:12.27 | Miravlix | It's just following forum and reading over the past months |
| 06:13.34 | Miravlix | http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=883462&p=1&tmp=1#post883462 |
| 06:13.42 | Ktron | As long as it isn't furbolgs or some other crappy race |
| 06:13.45 | Ktron | I'm happy |
| 06:13.48 | Miravlix | This is the FAQ thread on EU forums, I think it has links to blues |
| 06:14.04 | Ktron | Furbolgs I think are likely simply because they have a natural starting point near the night elves |
| 06:14.06 | Ktron | they're in game |
| 06:14.19 | Ktron | and likely to go friendly with the night elves |
| 06:14.26 | Ktron | (the non-insane ones anyway) |
| 06:14.33 | Ktron | But I don't want them |
| 06:16.27 | Miravlix | 1.3.1Q What do we know about the new "alliance"? |
| 06:16.27 | Miravlix | 1.3.1A It would make sense, but would make you go 'huh?'. They would be a "ugly" race. They are also already ingame and/or in the lore. Its also known that they resemble the Forsaken (lore-wise) |
| 06:17.03 | Codayus | Pandaren are in the lore. :-) |
| 06:17.08 | Miravlix | No |
| 06:17.09 | Codayus | They already have a capital city. |
| 06:17.12 | Miravlix | No |
| 06:17.12 | krka | two-headed ogres! |
| 06:17.18 | Codayus | Yes. |
| 06:17.27 | Miravlix | Two-headed ogres and Pandas aren't in the WoW Lore |
| 06:17.29 | Codayus | It's even known where the capital city is. |
| 06:17.32 | Miravlix | They are in the april fools lore |
| 06:17.43 | ckknight | Ogres were in WC2 |
| 06:17.57 | Ktron | where is the capital for pandaren? |
| 06:18.01 | ckknight | that's not april fools |
| 06:18.05 | Miravlix | ckk: You don't know the aprils fools Bliz played with ogres? |
| 06:18.11 | Miravlix | Two players one body thing |
| 06:18.11 | ckknight | yea |
| 06:18.14 | ckknight | I know that thing |
| 06:18.18 | krka | uhm... two-headed ogres not in lore? |
| 06:18.21 | ckknight | but there are one-headed ogres as well |
| 06:18.23 | krka | they're even in the game |
| 06:19.22 | Miravlix | Please read up. He was refearing to the april fools ogres |
| 06:19.38 | Miravlix | Those isn't lore, it's a joke made by Blizzard |
| 06:19.41 | Ktron | just out of curiousity, where 'is' the capital for pandaren? |
| 06:20.17 | Ktron | The only reason why I don't think the race will by furbolgs is because night elves can turn into them |
| 06:20.26 | Wobin_ | Not just nightelves |
| 06:20.29 | Miravlix | We all can |
| 06:20.32 | Wobin_ | I can do it =P |
| 06:20.36 | Miravlix | It's a staff you get from a quest |
| 06:20.52 | Miravlix | Owlkin though |
| 06:20.56 | Wobin_ | I deliberately terminated the quest chain so I could keep the wand =) |
| 06:21.05 | Miravlix | That would be weird with NE's ommkin form |
| 06:21.44 | Miravlix | s/NE/druid/ |
| 06:21.56 | Miravlix | Horde is a figment of your imagination |
| 06:22.00 | Miravlix | Only NE counts! |
| 06:23.08 | Codayus | Ktron: Pandaria. It's an island off the coast of Kalimdor. |
| 06:23.38 | Miravlix | No it isn't it doesn't really exist, that is a fantasy. :) |
| 06:24.05 | Miravlix | A fantasy in a fantasy game, the horror. |
| 06:24.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 06:25.25 | Miravlix | If you must know, then the new alliance race is good forsaken. |
| 06:25.36 | Miravlix | Then alliance get wotf |
| 06:26.08 | Miravlix | Blizzard thought the expansion cut to much into there profit, so they just duplicated the Forsaken |
| 06:26.13 | Brodrick | Alliance will get trents |
| 06:26.13 | Wobin_ | The alliance forsaken, however, are still prettier than the horde forsaken |
| 06:26.52 | Miravlix | Aren't trents pretty? |
| 06:27.07 | Miravlix | I guess, I've played a druid to long. :) |
| 06:27.18 | Wobin_ | treehugger =P |
| 06:27.25 | Codayus | Miravlix: It's official lore. It *was* a joke, but they changed their minds. Doesn't mean they'll be the race, and there's other reasons why they won't be. |
| 06:27.36 | Codayus | Check the paper RPG. |
| 06:28.01 | Miravlix | What next, cow level? |
| 06:28.02 | Codayus | (Which does, AFAIK, count. To the extent that it matters, arguments over whats "canon" are really sad...) |
| 06:30.02 | Miravlix | New race Panda's can only create a char of that type after another player has been to Blizcon to get a serial number and activate it in Ironforge, then a new player that tries at that precise second can create a panda and be the players noncombat pet |
| 06:31.47 | Miravlix | You have to be Chinese or a Chinese Farmer to be a panda pet. |
| 06:31.58 | Wobin_ | Woohoo! |
| 06:32.43 | Qzot | Sea giants ftw. |
| 06:32.53 | Miravlix | Strangely enough being Chinese seldom means you can also be a chinese farmer. |
| 06:33.04 | Qzot | Love to see the complaints about a Sea Giant warrior tanking, and no one else being able to see the boss. |
| 06:33.23 | Miravlix | Gnome warriors is the best tanks. |
| 06:33.30 | krka | murlocs for alliance FTW |
| 06:33.44 | Qzot | That would *so* server them right. |
| 06:34.01 | Miravlix | serve them right? |
| 06:34.03 | Qzot | And all the wetlands murloc quests would lose murloc faction. Retroactively. |
| 06:34.06 | Miravlix | You have to fight them... |
| 06:34.17 | Shadowd | nw |
| 06:34.19 | Shadowd | *naw |
| 06:34.20 | Qzot | hehe |
| 06:34.26 | Shadowd | They just say they're corrupted Murloc's and everythings okay. |
| 06:34.30 | Qzot | And think of the murloc mounts... |
| 06:34.55 | krka | you can have different murloc tribes though |
| 06:35.32 | Miravlix | the murlocs will be there own sea expansion |
| 06:35.48 | Qzot | And since the 2nd expansion includes the olfactory sensurround, no one will want to have a guildie who smells like last week's fish. |
| 06:36.06 | Miravlix | full of murloch instances until we all gurgle |
| 06:36.19 | Ktron | I think the thought of a group of murlocs ganking tauren will forever amuse me |
| 06:36.47 | Miravlix | they o already, horde has a ton more murlochs |
| 06:36.55 | Qzot | Hmm. What if Earthen are the new alliance race? |
| 06:37.15 | Qzot | Too close to dwarves, prolly. |
| 06:37.20 | ckknight | I want a third faction |
| 06:37.36 | Miravlix | burning crusade as faction? |
| 06:37.45 | Qzot | Devs as faction. |
| 06:37.53 | ckknight | Independant |
| 06:37.57 | ckknight | like Goblins and Ogres |
| 06:38.05 | Miravlix | a new faction would suck |
| 06:38.10 | ckknight | why? |
| 06:38.18 | Miravlix | making new guilds to catch up with the established factions |
| 06:38.30 | Miravlix | Trying to do the instances to get equipment to compete |
| 06:38.36 | Ktron | I'd actually like to see the horde and alliance factions broken up |
| 06:38.46 | ckknight | I'd like that too, Ktron |
| 06:38.50 | ckknight | NE should split |
| 06:38.55 | ckknight | and so should the Forsaken |
| 06:38.58 | Ktron | we can let current players keep their alignments if they'd like, but it'd be fun to get some interesting groups |
| 06:39.14 | Qzot | I've always thought a level 60 quest to change faction would be interesting. Prefix your race with "Reformed". |
| 06:39.19 | Ktron | tauren with the night elves... etc |
| 06:39.25 | Miravlix | whats so much fun about NE only guilds doing BWL? |
| 06:39.35 | Qzot | Clafication: You go back to level 1. |
| 06:39.55 | Ktron | heh, that'd be kind of fun Qzot, though hard to explain |
| 06:40.46 | Miravlix | No mages, no warlocks, no paladin. That would be one sucky BWL team for Nelfs. |
| 06:41.51 | Miravlix | what classes is undead missing? shaman, hunter? |
| 06:41.54 | ckknight | They should have undead Orcs and Tauren |
| 06:42.21 | Miravlix | a bit more variation of the toon of undead would be interesting |
| 06:42.28 | ckknight | yea |
| 06:42.51 | Miravlix | Though 10 minutes in undercity and I hearthstone out, I can't take the place |
| 06:43.07 | ckknight | TB's my favorite - cleanest and least laggy |
| 06:43.11 | Miravlix | Can't play the undead race at all, it's too creepy |
| 06:46.23 | Qzot | TB is really nicely laid out for BS and Engr. Auctioneer,bank,anvil,forge,and bank all right there. I love it. |
| 06:46.49 | krka | also close to FP |
| 06:46.53 | Qzot | Yeah. |
| 06:47.04 | Qzot | And the inn where you hearth in to. |
| 06:47.43 | ckknight | too bad there isn't an engineer in TB |
| 06:48.05 | Qzot | Unfortunately, my hearth is in Kargath, since I can use my engr trinket to bounce to Gadgetzan, so trying to stay in easy reach of everything. |
| 06:48.18 | Qzot | That's not an issue once you're 300. :P |
| 06:48.49 | krka | and how many times do you need to visit an engineer anyawy? |
| 06:49.00 | Qzot | Only while training. |
| 06:49.37 | Qzot | I'm hoping Blizz has left an advantage in 1.10 for training engineering twice. |
| 06:49.41 | Ktron | anyone ever done the horde mage quests? |
| 06:50.37 | Qzot | But I'm guessing that they're going to change a bunch of the high-end engineering items to take that advantage away. |
| 06:50.37 | krka | i have |
| 06:50.40 | ckknight | training engineering twice? |
| 06:50.45 | krka | up to level 43 atleast |
| 06:51.11 | Qzot | In 1.10, you can forfeit, engineering, relearn it, and take the other (goblin/gnomish) route. |
| 06:51.31 | ckknight | hrm |
| 06:51.46 | Qzot | There are a number of items that are gnomish-only by virtue of being BoP, but the item *itself* doesn't require gnomish. |
| 06:52.09 | Qzot | There are other items that require one branch of engineering. |
| 06:52.13 | Qzot | So... |
| 06:52.45 | Qzot | I'm thinking about resigning (gnomish) engineering, keeping my battle chicken, and retraining engineering to become a goblin engineer. |
| 06:53.03 | ckknight | battle chicken? |
| 06:53.11 | Qzot | Gnomish Battle Chicken. |
| 06:53.29 | Qzot | Probably my favorite toy. |
| 06:53.53 | Qzot | 1.5 minutes of level 60 fun every half hour. |
| 07:00.24 | Corrodias | i'm not aware that you can change tradeskill specializations. |
| 07:02.05 | Qzot | In 1.10 |
| 07:03.42 | Qzot | "Players that unlearn Engineering or Leatherworking may now respecialize if they decide to relearn the professions." |
| 07:04.27 | Ktron | you know what would be slick? |
| 07:04.34 | Ktron | to be able to learn a profession twice, to specialize twice |
| 07:04.49 | Ktron | ie, be a swordsmith and armorsmith, or goblin and gnomish engineer |
| 07:05.07 | Qzot | I guess that a literal interpretation could mean that you're still stuck with the same specialization, but at least you can get one. |
| 07:09.30 | Corrodias | how useful when you find out that leatherworking was a complete waste of time |
| 07:10.31 | Qzot | It is? I've never done it. |
| 07:12.14 | Corrodias | i think almost anything you can make is completely overshadowed by raid gear... |
| 07:12.35 | Qzot | Yeah. I guess that makes sense. |
| 07:12.53 | Qzot | I think I'm more willing than most to have temporary profs. |
| 07:13.39 | Qzot | My mage took up enchanting for about 2 days. Just long enough to get the enchanting only trinket from BRD. |
| 07:20.00 | Corrodias | how discouraging. i must wait until next weekend to start my new computer because i need to order another fan and a floppy drive (although the drive is optional, it will save me a lot of work when installing windows) |
| 07:25.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:25.52 | Corrodias | which is not cool because of the limited amount of time you have to return things... ah, well, i'll still have enough |
| 07:26.00 | Corrodias | i just want to find out of i seated the heat sink properly |
| 07:26.16 | Wobin_ | hehe |
| 07:26.19 | Wobin_ | You'll find out |
| 07:26.39 | Wobin_ | If it's an athalon, you'll have about 2 seconds to realise if you seated it right or not =) |
| 07:30.33 | Corrodias | can't even try it until i have a fan.. blah! |
| 07:30.49 | Corrodias | i carefully followed the instructions but, well, who knows what i may have done wrong? |
| 07:31.34 | Qzot | I'm waiting -- not very patiently -- for my new laptop. |
| 07:31.36 | Corrodias | i've managed to fuck up a chemistry experiment the same way 3 times in a row |
| 07:31.54 | Qzot | Decided against the alienware area-51, and went with the Dell. :P |
| 07:32.19 | Corrodias | mostly what concerns me is that i didn't attempt to "clean" the sink and CPU before installation, assuming they were already as clean as they were going to get, which may have been false |
| 07:32.44 | Corrodias | none of the instructions i read suggested doing so, but i still wonder if i should have. |
| 07:33.10 | Qzot | Corrodias: PCs are dishwasher safe, so you're still good to clean it now. |
| 07:33.49 | Qzot | You might have to take the top rack out of your dishwasher, tho. |
| 07:34.09 | Corrodias | i -mean- by rubbing the areas with alcohol |
| 07:34.24 | Qzot | oh |
| 07:34.45 | Qzot | Your dishwasher probably can't handle alcohol. |
| 07:36.13 | Codayus | Corrodias: There's a handful of very good crafted items that really compare well to raid gear. Let's see...there's some crafted plate fury warrior gear, some crafted plate fury warrior gear, and...some crafted plate fury warrior gear. :-/ |
| 07:36.43 | Corrodias | and -that- is blacksmithing. :) |
| 07:36.56 | Corrodias | i swear i wish i had never heard of leatherworking |
| 07:37.25 | [MoonWolf] | oh yeah leatherworking is sooo much better |
| 07:37.37 | Wobin_ | hehe |
| 07:37.49 | Codayus | All other specs, classes, and professions get almost nothing. Devilsaur gear is amazing stuff, but I don't think any rogue would ever wear it over nightfang, regardless of spec. |
| 07:37.58 | [MoonWolf] | there is some stormshroud armor, stormshroud armor , random other items and stormshroud armor. |
| 07:38.15 | Corrodias | engineering, that's where all the fun is. |
| 07:38.25 | [MoonWolf] | did i mention the stormshroud armor / |
| 07:38.27 | Codayus | There's black dragonscale boots. |
| 07:38.35 | [MoonWolf] | s///?/ |
| 07:38.43 | Corrodias | engineering and enchanting are the ones people use, although enchanting sounds like a ton of work |
| 07:38.46 | Codayus | Yay for crappy items that require amazing faction grind AND MC mats! |
| 07:39.15 | [MoonWolf] | the dark iron stuff fals under the same category |
| 07:40.21 | Codayus | Well...sorta. But some of those items are pretty good for gearing up a new tank for Ony/lava packs/etc. DI helm is fairly cheap, and really quite decent. |
| 07:42.32 | [MoonWolf] | anybody here affected by the storms ? |
| 07:42.45 | Codayus | There are storms? Hmm, guess I'm not... :-P |
| 07:42.57 | Qzot | Enchanting is a way to lose a lot of money, except for the very few who make it to 300 and get the epic enchants. |
| 07:43.17 | Corrodias | very few? why so few? |
| 07:43.46 | [MoonWolf] | http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1717250 |
| 07:43.56 | Qzot | Very few people have both the resources to acquire a good set of epic enchants, *and* have the patience to stand in a capital for hours on end hawking enchants. |
| 07:43.57 | [MoonWolf] | most give up before time |
| 07:44.21 | Corrodias | missourri? is that even in the midwest? |
| 07:44.26 | [MoonWolf] | no idea |
| 07:44.31 | [MoonWolf] | i dont know america |
| 07:44.34 | Codayus | Most of the good enchants require insane faction grinds, or are amazingly rare drops. |
| 07:44.55 | Qzot | Precisely. So only seriously available to those with a good guild. |
| 07:45.11 | Codayus | And that's on top of the fairly amazing cost to even get 300 enchanting. |
| 07:45.15 | Qzot | And of course, guildies don't provide any profit to their enchanters... |
| 07:45.19 | [MoonWolf] | so if you see a crusader enchant on the ah for 50 gold you buy it and resell it for 4 times to price |
| 07:45.39 | Qzot | Well, 3x on my server. |
| 07:45.48 | Codayus | I'm on a mature server. |
| 07:46.00 | Codayus | I'd resell it for 7 times the price. |
| 07:46.11 | [MoonWolf] | Qzot, i give them all the useless greens, i can get a good enchant from them for free i think. |
| 07:46.20 | Qzot | Exactly. |
| 07:46.22 | Codayus | Or more, haven't tracked prices... |
| 07:46.44 | Qzot | The point is, they only make money hawking enchants to strangers. |
| 07:47.02 | Qzot | And there are very few enchants people are willing to pay hefty money for. |
| 07:47.16 | Qzot | It can be a big money-maker, but only after a long grind and lots of cash. |
| 07:47.21 | [MoonWolf] | twinkers are a good income i bet. |
| 07:47.30 | Codayus | Heh, not really. |
| 07:47.44 | Codayus | Well...maybe on a pvp server. |
| 07:47.46 | Qzot | Non-guild twinkers, maybe. if they're twinking a perma-lowbie for BGs. |
| 07:48.52 | Codayus | Although BGs work the same on both, soo... But yeah, not too many people spring for crusader on their lvl 19 alts. I've only seen a handful... |
| 07:48.59 | Qzot | My guild has a moving level cap, and I decided to hang at 39 for a month, so I twinked out with 100g enchants on level 39 weapons. :P I usually level with greens, unenchanted. |
| 07:49.09 | Corrodias | there are plenty of 19 twinks on pve servers |
| 07:49.54 | [MoonWolf] | most go for the fiery enchants |
| 07:49.56 | Codayus | Most just go with fiery on my server, and you can always find someone to do that free with mats. |
| 07:50.02 | [MoonWolf] | the damage isnt relative but fixed |
| 07:50.12 | Corrodias | and totally unspecified |
| 07:50.14 | Qzot | I went with dual wield Agi +15 on my 39 hunter. |
| 07:50.15 | [MoonWolf] | and that is deadly at lvl 19 |
| 07:50.32 | Corrodias | the high level enchants have absolutely worthless descriptions |
| 07:50.38 | Codayus | Corrodias: Yup |
| 07:50.39 | [MoonWolf] | rogues with fast daggers and fiery pwn lvl 19 battlegrounds. |
| 07:50.50 | Corrodias | some enchants say things like "adds +1% mana regen rate", just as an example. |
| 07:50.56 | Corrodias | what the fuck does "crusader." tell you? eh? |
| 07:51.14 | Corrodias | i want to punch the guy at blizzard who wrote that, along with the one who made "fiery." |
| 07:51.16 | Ktron | that you can conquer mexico with that enchant |
| 07:51.26 | Codayus | Tells you to JFGI. :-P |
| 07:51.34 | Corrodias | i don't know that acronym |
| 07:51.38 | [MoonWolf] | nor do i |
| 07:51.39 | Ktron | just fucking get it? |
| 07:51.43 | Ktron | that's my guess |
| 07:51.43 | Codayus | uh... |
| 07:51.53 | Codayus | type it into google and it's the second result. |
| 07:51.55 | Qzot | Yay! A stable master in Grom'gol! |
| 07:51.56 | Corrodias | joe found gems inside |
| 07:51.58 | Codayus | Which is ironic... |
| 07:52.11 | Corrodias | "For over 50 years, Crusader has provided the ultimate in premium power for the ... Click here to visit crusaderwearables.com, the place to get Crusader ..." |
| 07:52.12 | [MoonWolf] | now can we get an inn at grom'gol |
| 07:52.31 | [MoonWolf] | Corrodias, that would be a cool discription. |
| 07:52.32 | Codayus | Anyhow - fiery is especially bad because of the really awful badlands fake fiery enchant with the AoE proc. :-/ |
| 07:52.38 | Codayus | People get really confused. |
| 07:52.42 | Qzot | Moonwolf: ?? |
| 07:52.49 | Ktron | yeah, 1.10 I think adds an inn to grom'gol |
| 07:52.50 | Qzot | There *is* an inn at GG. |
| 07:52.56 | Qzot | Right now. 1.9. |
| 07:52.58 | [MoonWolf] | where ?!?!? |
| 07:53.05 | [MoonWolf] | i never found one. |
| 07:53.10 | Ktron | what?? |
| 07:53.11 | Qzot | It's the same building as the zep launch. |
| 07:53.18 | Ktron | really? |
| 07:53.20 | [MoonWolf] | do'h |
| 07:53.21 | Corrodias | grom'gol base camp? hells yeah. |
| 07:53.25 | Qzot | You get yellow blinkies there... |
| 07:53.34 | Ktron | Next you're going to tell me there's a mailbox |
| 07:53.39 | [MoonWolf] | in the zep tower, who the hell puts an inn in a zep tower!!! |
| 07:53.47 | [MoonWolf] | Ktron, next to the kamp entrance north. |
| 07:53.47 | Qzot | ROFL! |
| 07:53.58 | Corrodias | it's like y'all never played horde |
| 07:54.32 | Qzot | The guy in the base sells innkeeper type stuff, but I don't know if you can set your hearthstone there. |
| 07:54.35 | Ktron | I've been mostly playing my highest level horde, a 35 undead mage... been doing STV, some Desolace, now some Arathi |
| 07:54.45 | Qzot | But you can certainly do a fast logout and get rest xp. |
| 07:54.47 | Ktron | that's why I was asking about horde mage quests a hour or so ago |
| 07:55.32 | Ktron | I think what's worse is one of my friends who has a 60 orc warrior didn't know there was a flight master for horde in BB |
| 07:55.42 | Ktron | he always ran to Grom'gol and flew out of there |
| 07:55.56 | Wobin_ | oh =( |
| 07:55.56 | Corrodias | ow. |
| 07:56.06 | Wobin_ | That's a painful run =P |
| 07:56.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 07:56.10 | Ktron | It is a little hidden, but not that much |
| 07:56.18 | Ktron | yeah, especially on a PvP server (which he is on) |
| 07:56.28 | Ktron | and it must have been hell while he was levelling in STV |
| 07:56.46 | Ktron | Anyway |
| 07:56.48 | Ktron | sleep for me |
| 07:56.49 | Ktron | night everyone |
| 07:56.58 | Ktron | 3am is my limit for suday nights |
| 07:57.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 07:59.00 | Qzot | I might have found the BB Horde FP, except that I had already found it the hard way with an Alliance toon. I knew all too well where it was. |
| 08:00.36 | Wobin_ | hehe |
| 08:00.48 | Wobin_ | "Ooh. where does -this- go....yarrargh!" |
| 08:02.33 | [MoonWolf] | i had that the reverse with the alliance flight master |
| 08:02.46 | [MoonWolf] | "i wonder what happens when i click on that dude ....." |
| 08:03.13 | Qzot | Ouch. |
| 08:03.26 | Qzot | As H, I knew a place I didn't want to go in BB... |
| 08:03.42 | Codayus | Hmm, sorry for the OT question, but - anyone heard anything about new swordsmith patterns in 1.10? Possibly something called "Sageblade"? |
| 08:03.45 | Qzot | Altho, on a PvP server, all of BB serves as a place I don't want to go. |
| 08:04.39 | [MoonWolf] | its not to bad on my rp pvp server |
| 08:04.45 | [MoonWolf] | usually you can walk around safely |
| 08:05.06 | Qzot | I would expect RPPVP to be a bit better. Wish I was there. |
| 08:05.24 | [MoonWolf] | try walking around in ashenvale as horde on rppvp |
| 08:05.30 | Codayus | Man, the bliz forum search function is broken. :-/ |
| 08:05.33 | [MoonWolf] | NOT FUN, and i make sure it stays that way. |
| 08:05.36 | Qzot | The worst is that I keep level 1-5 toons in Everlook and Gadgetzan. |
| 08:05.48 | [MoonWolf] | why everlook ? |
| 08:05.59 | Qzot | I keep a bank mule there. |
| 08:06.01 | [MoonWolf] | how hard is it to get one in everlook to begin with ? |
| 08:06.22 | [MoonWolf] | BB is easy as horde... but everlook.... |
| 08:06.39 | Qzot | I rolled druid for that purpose, so the worst case scenario would be level to 10, and then corpse camp from Moonglade. As it turned out, it was easy to get a summons. |
| 08:07.20 | Corrodias | a summons? |
| 08:07.32 | Qzot | Actually, it's a guild bank mule, Bookmaker, who collects Green Hills of Stranglethorn pages, and distributes sets on request. |
| 08:07.33 | Corrodias | the legal authority demanded that you be present at a certain time? |
| 08:07.54 | Qzot | Yes, if issued by a warlock with appropriate documentation. |
| 08:08.12 | Corrodias | most of these 92mm are just -pitiful-. |
| 08:08.16 | Corrodias | *92mm fans |
| 08:08.25 | Corrodias | 30cfm airflow, that's ridiculous |
| 08:08.41 | Qzot | Not following you at all, Corrodias. |
| 08:09.51 | Codayus | Qzot: Corrodias is probably complaining about a computer case. |
| 08:09.58 | Qzot | It's livable, but I think even the least aggressive hunter or rogue sees a level 1 toon, and thinks to themselves, "I've always wanted to try to get away from the guards..." |
| 08:09.58 | Wobin_ | Hehe |
| 08:10.00 | Corrodias | most of these are designed for people who want very quiet computers (only the gods know why that is important) so they have these slow fans that hardly blow |
| 08:10.01 | Codayus | And the fans therein, and the airflow they are (apparently not) providing. |
| 08:10.43 | Qzot | Codayus: Ah. Thank you for reading his mind. I couldn't. |
| 08:10.52 | Wobin_ | "A harried looking courier runs up to you with a satchel. "Are you Mr Jones?" *window pops up: You are being summoned by MrWarlock* "You've been served!" |
| 08:10.57 | Codayus | Well, I just spent most of yesterday agonizing over buying a new computer case. |
| 08:11.03 | Corrodias | lol |
| 08:11.35 | Qzot | I'll take a summons from a lock over a summons from a lawyer *any* day. |
| 08:11.41 | Qzot | That's **it**!!! |
| 08:11.47 | Wobin_ | ? |
| 08:11.50 | Qzot | Lawyers are the new alliance race. |
| 08:11.53 | Qzot | They're ugly. |
| 08:11.54 | Wobin_ | rofl |
| 08:12.01 | Wobin_ | Then everyone will want to kill on sight =P |
| 08:12.01 | Qzot | Very few people would want to play them. |
| 08:12.03 | Codayus | Plus some other parts, but the computer case ended up being the hardest. With a graphics card it's basically just a case of skimming the benchmarks, and finding the fastest one you can afford. With a computer case...erg. |
| 08:12.05 | Qzot | They're already in the game. |
| 08:13.12 | Qzot | They be similar to undead, but can only feed on the corpses of the helpless. |
| 08:13.18 | Wobin_ | rofl |
| 08:13.33 | Wobin_ | Every time you use a bandage, they'll be attracted by the visual effect =P |
| 08:13.38 | Qzot | Lol. |
| 08:13.38 | Wobin_ | And gain aggro |
| 08:13.42 | [MoonWolf] | arnt dead people pretty helpless to begin with ? |
| 08:14.18 | Codayus | I dunno...go raid UC and see how helpless all the dead people are... |
| 08:14.19 | Qzot | They'll have a passive racial ability that everyone else wets their pants when they come in range. |
| 08:14.29 | Codayus | Those guards will gank you *good*! ...oh, wait, dead people. NM. |
| 08:14.32 | Qzot | UC aren't dead. They're *un*dead. |
| 08:14.37 | [MoonWolf] | i said dead people not UNdead |
| 08:14.52 | Codayus | Heh. Beat you both. :-P |
| 08:15.04 | Qzot | Lawyers will not be allowed to wear pants. |
| 08:15.12 | Codayus | 03:15 < Qzot> Lawyers will not be allowed to wear pants. |
| 08:15.12 | Qzot | They can only wear briefs. |
| 08:15.19 | Codayus | Now THERE'S something to quote out of context. |
| 08:15.30 | Codayus | Mind you, the pun is awful too, but still... |
| 08:15.36 | Corrodias | Codayus: the really hard part is finding parts that actually are like their pictures indicate |
| 08:15.37 | Qzot | Lol. |
| 08:15.46 | Corrodias | newegg is developing a bad habit of using outdated pictures |
| 08:16.18 | Codayus | Corrodias: Ouch. |
| 08:16.55 | Corrodias | the case has a 120mm grill on the back instead of two 80's (i was prepared for this because of one of the other customer reviews mentioning it) and one of my fans is solid between the screwholes instead of leaving them open, so it isn't compatible with the clips on my heatsink |
| 08:17.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 08:17.39 | Codayus | I don't care about the looks of my case, I just desperatly hope all my parts fit into it, and that it'll keep stuff cool. :-) |
| 08:18.00 | Corrodias | well, the fan mounts on the back matter because they determine what kind of fans you have to buy |
| 08:18.24 | Corrodias | also, the pictures indicated that the front had fans in it, but it doesn't - just places for them |
| 08:18.27 | Codayus | Some cases come with fans, which helps a lot. *IF* you trust them to ship it with halfway decent fans, of course. |
| 08:20.18 | Qzot | Rats. |
| 08:21.00 | Qzot | There is an excellent, ancient Bloom County cartoon about lawyers, but Google doesn't seem to know about any images that show it. :( |
| 08:21.05 | Corrodias | i'll just buy from somewhere other than newegg for this part |
| 08:22.41 | Qzot | Okay, guys. I'm not making progress on my paper. Gotta log here. Catch you later. |
| 08:23.09 | Qzot | Sweet dreams of naked lawyers. |
| 08:23.17 | Codayus | Paper? |
| 08:23.18 | Codayus | Doh. |
| 08:23.19 | Codayus | Too slow. |
| 08:24.00 | Kalroth | owned |
| 08:47.03 | Corrodias | awww |
| 08:47.16 | Corrodias | i don't WANT to spend $7 on shipping for a $12 fan |
| 08:51.12 | Wobin_ | buy more then =) |
| 08:51.35 | Corrodias | first i have to ask these vendors if their pictures are accurate. :/ |
| 08:54.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (i=the_real@tux.nerdheaven.dk) |
| 09:01.11 | Wobin_ | wow |
| 09:01.12 | Wobin_ | http://couchblogging.com/insanekidvideo.html |
| 09:02.01 | Corrodias | almost doesn't look staged.. >_> |
| 09:02.15 | Wobin_ | I know |
| 09:02.19 | Wobin_ | But amusing still the same |
| 09:02.26 | Wobin_ | I like how they subtitle the ARrrghghgs |
| 09:02.53 | Maldivia | Nice... my CameraOrSelectOrMove* workaround got the blue stemple :9 |
| 09:03.39 | krka|work | gratz |
| 09:03.41 | Kalroth | stamp* |
| 09:03.43 | Kalroth | :) |
| 09:07.47 | krka|work | very nice workaround too, actually cleaner imo |
| 09:08.09 | Wobin_ | Have you a link, Mal? |
| 09:09.18 | krka|work | page 3 on the forum |
| 09:13.20 | Corrodias | Corey Hart - Sunglasses At Night |
| 09:13.44 | ckknight | is there a link, though? |
| 09:15.21 | Wobin_ | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=335196&p=1&tmp=1#post335196 |
| 09:17.50 | ckknight | would would it be useful for? |
| 09:41.51 | Wobin_ | wow |
| 09:41.59 | Wobin_ | Beckon's PVP vid for priests is... scary =) |
| 10:00.07 | Corrodias | EVERYBODY DANCE NOW! C & C Music Factory - Gonna Make You Sweat |
| 10:00.54 | Tain | Why can't the Blizzard forums be faster to respond? |
| 10:01.29 | Kalroth | the more server lag, the less whining and bitching, simple but effective tactic! |
| 10:01.30 | Corrodias | i think the fourth word in the question is your answer. |
| 10:01.53 | Wobin_ | dun! dun dundundun! |
| 10:02.03 | Wobin_ | Everybody DANCE NOW! |
| 10:02.09 | Tain | ~dance |
| 10:02.10 | purl | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 10:03.25 | Kalroth | :D |
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| 11:30.59 | Maldivia | Kalroth: hehe, yeah stamp... was a bit in a hurry, apparently forgot to translate to english :) |
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| 12:14.24 | Kalroth | hi krka! |
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| 13:43.33 | zeetg | Does anyone want a Russian mail order bride? |
| 13:46.01 | Wobin_ | You've got them on WowGuru now? |
| 13:46.37 | zeeg | seems like it |
| 13:46.39 | zeeg | lol |
| 13:47.57 | zeeg | bad enough i have to prune gold selling threads all day |
| 13:48.00 | zeeg | dont need more types of spam |
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| 15:14.02 | groll | darn quiet in here :P |
| 15:14.39 | Kalroth | shhh, we're lurking |
| 15:14.46 | groll | haha idling u mean :D |
| 15:15.05 | groll | Kalroth u good at macros/scripts btw? |
| 15:15.23 | Kalroth | Depends on what you want. :) |
| 15:15.36 | groll | ok well pseudo code comming then :D |
| 15:15.43 | groll | cast x lvl1 |
| 15:15.45 | Kalroth | Oh, I'm bad then! |
| 15:15.53 | groll | if clearcast cast x max lvl |
| 15:16.03 | Kalroth | You can't do that |
| 15:16.06 | groll | if cooldown cast heal spell x |
| 15:16.21 | groll | so need to be an addon? |
| 15:16.29 | Kalroth | You can only cast one spell in a macro |
| 15:16.56 | Kalroth | the macro would have to be something like: |
| 15:17.01 | groll | erm cant a macro check if i have clearcast and then cast another if i have it? |
| 15:17.11 | groll | ie it's just choosing what spell to cast |
| 15:17.17 | Kalroth | if clearcast then cast max level else if cooldown cast heal else cast min level |
| 15:17.30 | Kalroth | that way it'll check first and cast last, that might work |
| 15:17.41 | Kalroth | but there's a limit of uhm, 255 characters in a macro |
| 15:17.49 | groll | that u can work around :D |
| 15:17.57 | groll | with the proper addon :D |
| 15:18.07 | Kalroth | I like to keep it simple :) |
| 15:21.03 | groll | heh |
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| 16:16.43 | Qzot | Good morning. |
| 16:16.50 | Qzot | If it is a good morning. |
| 16:20.53 | Wobin_ | Just |
| 16:20.58 | Wobin_ | 12:20am |
| 16:32.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:36.07 | Shouryuu | ugh |
| 16:41.18 | Qzot | ugh? |
| 16:43.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@67-42-95-27.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:43.34 | End | arg |
| 16:43.38 | End | matey |
| 16:43.51 | Shouryuu | ugh is a kinda tired hi |
| 16:44.57 | Shouryuu | I am so tired |
| 16:45.17 | Qzot | But it's like 5pm, no? |
| 16:45.30 | Shouryuu | yeah 6 |
| 16:45.41 | Qzot | Close enough, for government work. |
| 16:45.58 | Shouryuu | I've been sleeping like 5hours a night for the last 3 weeks |
| 16:46.03 | Shouryuu | dead beat tired |
| 16:47.31 | Beladona | 5 hours? |
| 16:47.34 | Beladona | thats a lot |
| 16:48.05 | Beladona | by the time I notice what time it is, I usually have 3 hours to get up |
| 16:49.13 | krka | you lucky bastards! i have to get up before i get to sleep :( |
| 16:49.27 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:50.11 | Qzot | Hey. That's nothing. While I'm asleep I have to dream of walking 14 miles through the snow uphill both ways. |
| 16:52.35 | groll | krka i can sleep as long as i want :D |
| 16:54.30 | Qzot | Anybody from wowwiki besides Iriel hang out here? |
| 16:55.23 | Shouryuu | ermm Anduin, but can't anyone just put something on the wiki? |
| 16:55.48 | Qzot | I think they just slarfed the bits from one server to another, and the new fonts are tinysucky. |
| 16:56.01 | krka | no, there is a natural selection going on - those who can't even manage to create an account and login won't be able to edit the wiki :P |
| 16:56.25 | Qzot | I've been adding the Lua tricks I know that I haven't seen in other addon code as I come across them in my own code. |
| 16:57.02 | Shouryuu | krka - that's actualy very true, is one of the reasons the wiki is rather clean |
| 16:57.05 | Qzot | But I really don't want to deal with 3 pt fonts. |
| 16:57.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 16:57.30 | Qzot | Hey! I'm trying to do *my* part to pollute the wiki. |
| 16:59.06 | krka | good thinking, we should add more useful tips and tricks |
| 16:59.09 | krka | and coding practices |
| 17:00.30 | Qzot | Iriel didn't like that I'm calling these 'tricks', but I felt that people were less likely to read 'techniques'. 'Tricks' activate everyone's desire to push the envelope. :P |
| 17:01.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:04.24 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 17:10.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 17:10.58 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge is Mod Dev Discussions: Keep smiling! It makes people wonder what you are up to... |
| 17:11.29 | Shouryuu | send me a link |
| 17:12.14 | Qzot | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:HOWTOs |
| 17:12.31 | Shouryuu | I'm going to shoot my brother |
| 17:12.37 | Qzot | Look at the 4 in the "Do x Tricks" or "Do Tricks ..." under "D". |
| 17:13.03 | Shouryuu | he had this great idea of downloading 40gigs of mac Gyver and now is hogging my connection so he can upload |
| 17:13.05 | Qzot | Um. Shouryuu, you might want to say that on a more private channel. |
| 17:13.11 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:13.34 | Shouryuu | Server not found... |
| 17:13.43 | Qzot | Wow. |
| 17:13.55 | Shouryuu | that's my internet =( |
| 17:14.04 | Qzot | It's still up for me. |
| 17:14.09 | Shouryuu | yeah I know |
| 17:14.19 | Shouryuu | I just get timed out by that dumb upload |
| 17:14.43 | Qzot | Does your router do bandwidth shaping by internal IP? |
| 17:15.00 | Shouryuu | ouch, there goes my eyes |
| 17:15.10 | Shouryuu | in other words, what does that mean? |
| 17:15.58 | Qzot | Can you tell your router box to limit the throughput going to any one network connection in your house, if there is another connection wanting bandwidth, too. |
| 17:16.12 | Shouryuu | oh don't worry |
| 17:16.16 | Shouryuu | he's using my computer |
| 17:16.21 | Qzot | Oh. |
| 17:16.25 | Shouryuu | there's no way I can limit anything |
| 17:16.34 | Qzot | Shooting him may be the most effective, then. |
| 17:16.36 | Qzot | Go right ahead. |
| 17:16.47 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:16.58 | Shouryuu | I wouldn't mind if it were something good |
| 17:17.05 | Shouryuu | but 40 igs of Mac Gyver is ust |
| 17:17.07 | Shouryuu | *juet |
| 17:17.13 | Qzot | *just |
| 17:17.15 | Shouryuu | *JUST |
| 17:17.18 | Shouryuu | thereeee we go |
| 17:17.23 | Qzot | *there |
| 17:17.40 | Shouryuu | :@ |
| 17:17.50 | Qzot | but 40 gigs of Mac Gyver is just ... ? |
| 17:17.54 | Qzot | ... way too much? |
| 17:17.58 | Shouryuu | DUMB |
| 17:18.03 | Shouryuu | he isn't even going to watch ONE episode |
| 17:18.10 | Qzot | Well, Mac Gyver is dumb, even to start with. |
| 17:18.20 | Shouryuu | I know, even one episode is too much |
| 17:18.31 | Josh_Borke | i enjoyed Mac Gyver as a kid |
| 17:18.32 | Cairenn|sleep | Qzot: sacrilege! |
| 17:18.37 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:18.39 | Qzot | Okay, he loses points for downloading MG. He *gains* points for knowing enough not to *watch* it. :P |
| 17:18.49 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:18.57 | Shouryuu | Mac Gyver was cool when I was 10 |
| 17:19.01 | Shouryuu | but he's 21 |
| 17:19.01 | Qzot | Agreed. |
| 17:19.32 | Qzot | Actually, MacGyver was cool when my *kids* were 10. Barely. An action show I could watch with them. |
| 17:19.43 | Cairenn|sleep | >< |
| 17:19.50 | Cairenn|sleep | MacGyver rocks :p |
| 17:19.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 17:19.52 | Shouryuu | without blood sex and violence |
| 17:19.55 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:19.57 | Qzot | Go back to sleep, Cairenn. |
| 17:20.08 | Shouryuu | lol I was so thinking the same thing :P |
| 17:20.33 | Shouryuu | but I guessed it'd be mean to say it =( |
| 17:20.42 | Josh_Borke | aw, it's ok cairenn, i agree with you |
| 17:20.58 | Cairenn | plus the man is just plain hot |
| 17:21.03 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:21.10 | Josh_Borke | well...i don't know about all that... |
| 17:21.13 | Elkano | MacGyver ftw :) |
| 17:21.16 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 17:21.35 | Cairenn | he was hot as Mac, he remained hot in SG1 |
| 17:21.40 | Cairenn | yummy |
| 17:21.44 | Shouryuu | SG1? |
| 17:21.50 | Shouryuu | Star Gate 1? |
| 17:21.57 | Shouryuu | Super Groppers 1? |
| 17:21.58 | Elkano | btw: is there a function to check if a pet is mine or a party/raid member's (so I'll get exact HP)? |
| 17:22.08 | Cairenn | StarGate |
| 17:22.30 | Shouryuu | dunno elkano |
| 17:22.40 | Qzot | if (UnitIsUnit('raid7pet', 'pet')) then |
| 17:23.17 | Qzot | Wait. I misparsed your question. |
| 17:23.19 | Qzot | Maybe. |
| 17:23.40 | Qzot | Are you asking (my pet) vs (group members' pet)? |
| 17:23.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Slayman (i=Slayman@d025055.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 17:23.56 | Qzot | Or (my or some group member's pet) vs (some other pet)? |
| 17:24.05 | Josh_Borke | Qzot: the Do Tricks with Tables how to is very confusing :-/ |
| 17:24.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.245.104) |
| 17:24.22 | Qzot | Okay... |
| 17:24.33 | Qzot | And I was afraid it was too obvious, lol. |
| 17:24.36 | Josh_Borke | but informative :-) |
| 17:24.40 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 17:24.52 | Kirkburn | Boo! Random question ... why would an addon reference fonts.xml in the .toc? |
| 17:25.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 17:25.31 | Kirkburn | Cause apparently "When loading an addon which is LoadOnDemand with ..\..\FrameXML\Fonts.xml in the toc, all fonts except the four in my suggestions reset back to default" |
| 17:25.32 | Qzot | Josh, gotta run and head off to work. Can you tell me what sections are confusing? |
| 17:25.51 | Elkano | (my or some group member's pet) vs (some other pet) |
| 17:25.54 | Josh_Borke | Qzot: i'll add it to the discussion page |
| 17:26.05 | Qzot | k. I'll try to clarify. |
| 17:26.52 | Shouryuu | how bad is this, I've been pinging my router for the past 2minutes and have only gotten "Request Timed out" as a return |
| 17:26.54 | Qzot | Elkano, I don't know a trivial way. Are you talking about a pet you have targeted? |
| 17:27.07 | Elkano | well, mouseover |
| 17:27.12 | Qzot | Good enough. |
| 17:27.18 | Qzot | Will for it to be a loop? |
| 17:27.46 | Qzot | s/Will/Willing/ |
| 17:28.19 | Elkano | well, crosschecking mouseover with all party/raid pets would be possible, but it may be a performance hit, won't it? |
| 17:28.50 | Qzot | Doing it once per tick? I doubt it. |
| 17:29.14 | Qzot | I don't think it will generate a call to the server for UnitIsUnit. |
| 17:30.38 | Elkano | well, I'm trying to help chester fix a 'bug' in TipBuddy wrt UnitHealth which returns the exact HP of pets for party members :/ |
| 17:31.22 | Qzot|ablutions | If this is happening in OnUpdate, I'd try the loop and see what the performance is like. |
| 17:32.18 | Qzot|ablutions | I wish there was a suffix ..'owner' that worked analogously to ..'pet' and ..'target'. |
| 17:32.34 | Cairenn | no queue to get in to the (main) test server, atm |
| 17:38.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Slayman (i=Slayman@d025055.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 17:51.47 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 17:54.03 | Qzot|clean | On my way to work. See you in a bit. |
| 17:56.44 | Josh_Borke | later qzot |
| 18:09.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 18:10.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 18:10.38 | Josh_Borke | <-- idiot |
| 18:11.01 | Cairenn | mrh? |
| 18:11.40 | Josh_Borke | c9hanged code and submitted it before testing it :-/ |
| 18:12.05 | Cairenn | I'll leave it in queue then |
| 18:12.08 | Cairenn | edit the upload |
| 18:12.18 | Josh_Borke | oh no, you already approved it :D |
| 18:12.40 | Josh_Borke | i realized it and fixed it just after you approved it :-D |
| 18:12.46 | Cairenn | right, so I did |
| 18:12.53 | Cairenn | well, approved your fixed one |
| 18:13.10 | Josh_Borke | danke cairenn :-) you rock |
| 18:13.17 | Cairenn | de nada |
| 18:24.38 | Shouryuu | wow |
| 18:24.58 | Shouryuu | I;m watching a videa of a priset smiting for an average of 1k |
| 18:25.01 | Cairenn | mrrh? |
| 18:25.15 | Shouryuu | s/priset/priest/ |
| 18:25.22 | Shouryuu | a 1k smite |
| 18:25.24 | Shouryuu | ouch |
| 18:25.32 | Shouryuu | he crits at 2.5k with power infusion |
| 18:26.15 | [MoonWolf] | holy is an unfair damage stat |
| 18:26.19 | [MoonWolf] | no resistance for it. |
| 18:28.19 | Shouryuu | omg, all buffed he critted holy fire for 4k |
| 18:29.29 | Shouryuu | But shadow res is just requiered for BWL, so SR gear isn't uncomon |
| 18:32.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 18:40.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Brodrick (n=Brodrick@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:41.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 18:41.37 | Cairenn | morning FL, Brodrick, Tem |
| 18:41.45 | Tem | hey Cairenn |
| 18:41.45 | Brodrick | allo |
| 18:41.46 | krka | damn it, accidently hit a guy in the inn in Gadgetzan and die :( |
| 18:42.20 | ForgottenLords | howdy |
| 18:43.02 | Brodrick | Cairenn, do you sleep? |
| 18:43.07 | Cairenn | heh, sometimes |
| 18:43.28 | Shouryuu | why does every shadow priest try to prove that he can actualy heal as well as a holy priest, but DPS better... |
| 18:44.14 | Corrodias | because he doesn't want to think he gave anything up, but rather that he found the build that nobody else knows that is better than all of you. |
| 18:44.34 | Shouryuu | sad but true |
| 18:44.55 | Brodrick | Well, as long as they're not the main healer, they can usually do as well as a non-shadow priest |
| 18:45.45 | Tem | I hate shadow priests |
| 18:45.49 | Tem | they should all go die |
| 18:45.59 | Cairenn | lol |
| 18:46.12 | Tem | useless dead weight in raids |
| 18:46.32 | Tem | and annoying shits in pvp becaise they're too damned lazy to come out of shadow form to heal you |
| 18:46.44 | Tem | s/caise/cause/ |
| 18:47.13 | Tem | I promise I can kill more people than you if you just keep me alive |
| 18:47.56 | Brodrick | The last WSG game I played I didn't die once ... dedicated healer ftw |
| 18:48.10 | Tem | I love going in with my guild groups |
| 18:48.19 | Shouryuu | I think I'm a bit toooo dedicated |
| 18:48.21 | Brodrick | 49 killing blows, woot! |
| 18:48.27 | Tem | We've got a really really competant priest |
| 18:48.29 | Shouryuu | I usualy has like 10 times more death than everyone |
| 18:48.43 | Tem | I love being near him in WSG |
| 18:48.56 | Shouryuu | Healing in PvP is fun |
| 18:49.00 | Tem | yeah Shouryuu, that means your dps isn't doing their job |
| 18:49.08 | Shouryuu | yeah it's in AV :P |
| 18:49.24 | Tem | see, if people are beating on me, then they aren't attacking the priest so he can keep me up easily |
| 18:49.26 | Shouryuu | I've done *one* organised AB and died like once |
| 18:49.36 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 18:49.41 | Tem | if people are attacking him, then they aren't attacking me, so I can easily kill all of them |
| 18:49.43 | Shouryuu | priest really have incredible burst healing |
| 18:49.52 | Tem | while he just keeps himself up :) |
| 18:50.00 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 18:50.04 | Shouryuu | martydom FTW |
| 18:50.11 | Brodrick | Watching people try to kill good priests is always entertaining |
| 18:50.19 | Shouryuu | yeah lol |
| 18:50.42 | Shouryuu | trying to get away from 15 people is so much fun as a priest |
| 18:50.59 | Brodrick | 3-4 people beating on a priest while a rogue slowly picks all of them off. |
| 18:51.03 | [MoonWolf] | okay, 15 people is more then enough interupts to get a priest down. |
| 18:51.04 | Shouryuu | renew shield dispel nova fear focused casting flash heal pot shiled |
| 18:51.09 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 18:52.17 | [MoonWolf] | clease, consume magic, kick, scatter shot, silence |
| 18:52.34 | [MoonWolf] | purge |
| 18:52.39 | Josh_Borke | divine intervention! |
| 18:52.43 | Shouryuu | warlocks really suck |
| 18:52.44 | Josh_Borke | oh wait... |
| 18:52.48 | Shouryuu | I ahte warlocks |
| 18:53.28 | [MoonWolf] | warlocks with felhunters and demo build are the ultimate anti caster. |
| 18:53.45 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 18:53.48 | Shouryuu | just hate thos |
| 18:53.56 | Shouryuu | chain fear and good DPS =( |
| 18:54.10 | [MoonWolf] | and the best dispell in the game. |
| 18:54.20 | [MoonWolf] | and a spell lock |
| 18:54.21 | Shouryuu | ay |
| 18:55.03 | [MoonWolf] | now lets get rid of paranoya and give felhunters something usefull like feedback or mana burn or the like. |
| 18:55.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Slayman (i=Slayman@d025055.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 18:55.35 | Shouryuu | is paranoia that useless? |
| 18:55.43 | [MoonWolf] | no, but its out of place |
| 18:55.49 | [MoonWolf] | our clearly anticaster pet |
| 18:56.03 | [MoonWolf] | has a rogue detector.... |
| 18:56.05 | Shouryuu | ahh indeed |
| 18:56.38 | [MoonWolf] | and no rightminded rogue will hit the felhunter because of the AP debuff. |
| 18:56.43 | Tem | Isn't two-boxing against the ToS? |
| 18:56.52 | Tem | I seem to remember reading that you can't own 2 accounts |
| 18:56.55 | Shouryuu | depends on how you two box I guess |
| 18:57.01 | Shouryuu | of course you can |
| 18:57.04 | [MoonWolf] | you can have two accounts fine |
| 18:57.25 | Brodrick | There's no hard-fast rule against two accounts, and they'd be stupid to limit people. |
| 18:57.30 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 18:57.32 | [MoonWolf] | i have a friend with two accounts on the same name and the same CC blizzard never said a thing. |
| 18:57.52 | Corrodias | you can't have multiple people on a single account |
| 18:57.55 | Shouryuu | same here |
| 18:58.01 | Corrodias | they have no reason to prevent a single person from having multiple accounts |
| 18:58.01 | Shouryuu | well you *can't* is a big word |
| 18:58.34 | Corrodias | then, "are not allowed to and will not be given help with doing" |
| 18:58.36 | Shouryuu | they don't want you to, but can't do anything about it |
| 18:58.38 | Tem | I seem to remember reading something along the lines of "You may have ONE account" |
| 18:58.52 | Tem | I just can't find the stupid ToS to read it |
| 18:58.56 | Tem | anyone have a link? |
| 18:59.00 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 18:59.36 | Cairenn | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/;jsessionid=F631B09675FC8F94CF09E4DC14187D56.app05 |
| 19:00.03 | Shouryuu | lol did someone stealth bumo the "Hush now it'll be alright" thread? |
| 19:00.39 | Cairenn | apparently |
| 19:00.51 | Cairenn | and no, it *wasn't* me |
| 19:00.57 | Corrodias | it explicitly says you may have one (1) account. it doesn't specifically say you can't have more than one, although they could push it if they wanted to |
| 19:01.10 | Corrodias | but then, they can always just change it to specifically prohibit it if they want to. |
| 19:01.17 | Tem | found it |
| 19:01.23 | Tem | "You may establish one (1) user account (the "Account") with which to play World of Warcraft by accessing the Service pursuant to the terms..." |
| 19:01.46 | Tem | seems pretty explicit to me |
| 19:02.13 | Corrodias | i'm just going to establish one multiple times :D |
| 19:02.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Slayman (i=Slayman@d025055.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 19:02.51 | Shouryuu | a "Natural Person" wtf? |
| 19:03.04 | Corrodias | not: corporations, artificial intelligence |
| 19:03.14 | Shouryuu | ah |
| 19:03.18 | Tem | I guess I'm one of those people that doesn't read extra stuff into legal documents. To me, if they are stating what you CAN do, it means that and nothing else. |
| 19:03.33 | Corrodias | currently, AI cannot become a legal entity, but a corporation can |
| 19:03.48 | Shouryuu | well it isn't really restrictif |
| 19:04.05 | Shouryuu | it just feels weird having them restrict the number of accounts/person... |
| 19:04.19 | Corrodias | that would reduce their money. there's no way they'd do that. |
| 19:04.29 | Tem | I think they would |
| 19:04.33 | Corrodias | i think you're full of it |
| 19:04.38 | Shouryuu | and there's just 1001 way to get past this. i.e "This isn't mine, it's my wifes" |
| 19:04.43 | Corrodias | :) |
| 19:05.00 | Tem | Shouryuu: right, but I don't doubt that they would |
| 19:05.13 | Tem | because two-boxing doesn't seem to be in "the spirit of the game" IMO |
| 19:05.23 | Shouryuu | yeah I guess |
| 19:05.25 | Shouryuu | true |
| 19:05.32 | Corrodias | m-o-n-e-y |
| 19:05.36 | Shouryuu | meh |
| 19:05.50 | Shouryuu | they have money guaranted even without 2 accounts/person |
| 19:06.05 | Corrodias | they have made three extremely popular games, now, but i don't think they're out to make us happy |
| 19:06.11 | Shouryuu | I mean, blizzard makes good games, everyone knows that, they aren't goig to leach you till you die from it |
| 19:06.23 | Shouryuu | Honestly I think they are |
| 19:06.28 | Corrodias | er, four extremely popular games. |
| 19:07.17 | Shouryuu | I think Blizzard has somewhat of a "Ethic d'entreprise", however you say that in English |
| 19:07.29 | Corrodias | corporate ethic? |
| 19:07.48 | Shouryuu | aye |
| 19:07.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Slayman (i=Slayman@d025055.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 19:08.16 | Shouryuu | they aren't just trying to strip us of our money |
| 19:08.17 | Maldivia | hmm, who can get a fast note to slouken, so we can get a bug fixed before 1.10 goes live? |
| 19:08.27 | Corrodias | i don't know. what generosity have they shown? |
| 19:08.33 | [MoonWolf] | Maldivia, the forums. |
| 19:08.35 | Tem | post it on the forms Maldivia |
| 19:08.52 | Shouryuu | Corr - Good games. They do their job and they do it well |
| 19:08.55 | [MoonWolf] | if you contact him in another way thats is what he is going to say anyway. |
| 19:08.57 | Shouryuu | that's more than enough |
| 19:09.01 | Maldivia | well, don't know if it works on live, and if it does, it's worse than the spoofed item links |
| 19:09.23 | [MoonWolf] | the /random rolls with the newlines ? |
| 19:09.40 | Shouryuu | There's nothing unethical with asking money for hard/good work |
| 19:09.40 | Maldivia | nope... br |
| 19:09.42 | Maldivia | brb |
| 19:09.46 | Cairenn | what's the issue Maldivia? |
| 19:09.49 | Cairenn | before you post |
| 19:10.12 | Corrodias | making a good game is not "generous"... |
| 19:10.15 | Cairenn | if it's something that serious, then you don't want to post it and give the masses any ideas :p |
| 19:10.41 | [MoonWolf] | yeah, serieus exploits are a different matter. |
| 19:11.01 | Shouryuu | Corporate ethic isn't about generosity, it's about how well you do your job |
| 19:11.20 | Cairenn | Maldivia ? |
| 19:11.40 | Shouryuu | he's afk |
| 19:11.45 | Shouryuu | he said "brb" |
| 19:12.01 | [MoonWolf] | [20:09] Maldivia brb |
| 19:12.01 | Cairenn | yeah, got that :p |
| 19:12.01 | Corrodias | they certainly make good games. however, wanting to make good games doesn't mean they'll do things just to keep us happy in the face of profit |
| 19:12.01 | Corrodias | er, profit loss |
| 19:14.20 | Shouryuu | Well blizzard and profit loss are kinda antinomic, so it's hard to say |
| 19:14.35 | Corrodias | hahaha |
| 19:14.49 | Corrodias | i think the only way they can get people to stop playing WoW now is to cancel everyone's account |
| 19:14.54 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:15.13 | [MoonWolf] | unless something drastic happens i think Corrodias is right |
| 19:15.18 | Tem | even if they nerf me to hell and seriously screw up my class next patch, I |
| 19:15.19 | [MoonWolf] | wow aint dying anytime soon |
| 19:15.23 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:15.24 | Tem | 'd probably just re-roll |
| 19:15.40 | [MoonWolf] | its still GROWING for gods sake. |
| 19:16.24 | [MoonWolf] | in half a year time wow became the most popular MMO of its time. |
| 19:16.26 | Corrodias | there aren't enough gamers like me for it to die; i can't play a game for more than 2 months at the most |
| 19:16.45 | Tem | Corrodias: I'm like that too |
| 19:16.55 | Tem | but I've been playing since release |
| 19:17.00 | Shouryuu | yeah same |
| 19:17.03 | [MoonWolf] | WoW is the new eq |
| 19:17.08 | [MoonWolf] | its going to be around for ages |
| 19:17.13 | Shouryuu | I've rarely been stuck to a game like I've been to WoW |
| 19:17.15 | [MoonWolf] | everybody is going to laugh at the old graphics |
| 19:17.20 | [MoonWolf] | and people will still play it |
| 19:17.48 | [MoonWolf] | and for once |
| 19:17.54 | [MoonWolf] | there is no SOE to fuck it up the butt. |
| 19:18.04 | Shouryuu | SOE? |
| 19:18.15 | [MoonWolf] | Sony Online Entertainment. |
| 19:18.34 | [MoonWolf] | the company that can turn instant best sellers into rubbish.. 3 times in a row. |
| 19:18.42 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 19:19.12 | Shouryuu | Anyone here played PE? |
| 19:20.10 | Corrodias | ...parasite eve? i honestly can't think of any other name |
| 19:20.33 | Shouryuu | Project Entropia |
| 19:20.47 | Shouryuu | a *really* cool and complete free MMORPG |
| 19:20.50 | Shouryuu | really impressive |
| 19:21.03 | Corrodias | come to think of it, i think i heard something about that, long ago |
| 19:21.05 | Shouryuu | It's WoW like but free and no tuesday maintainance |
| 19:21.13 | Corrodias | didn't it involve having a lot of control in the hands of the players |
| 19:21.20 | Shouryuu | ok not WoW like |
| 19:21.30 | Shouryuu | but the best free MMO out there |
| 19:23.52 | Ktron | heh, I might look into Project Entropia |
| 19:24.28 | Gryphen | sort of free, it takes real money to buy in-game stuff |
| 19:24.35 | Shouryuu | nay |
| 19:24.44 | Shouryuu | you can invest real money if you feel like it |
| 19:24.49 | Shouryuu | but you don't *have* to |
| 19:25.03 | Shouryuu | it's like legal WoW gold |
| 19:25.23 | Shouryuu | and I guess it supports the game so there isn't that much harm in giving 10 bucks |
| 19:26.14 | Shouryuu | the game isn't very noob friendly though |
| 19:26.43 | Shouryuu | noob as in newbie, not retard |
| 19:28.12 | Maldivia | back |
| 19:28.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeetg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 19:29.03 | Corrodias | OH, THAT GAME |
| 19:29.15 | Maldivia | Cairenn ? |
| 19:29.16 | Corrodias | the one that somebody paid thousands of dollars of real money for some in-game land |
| 19:29.26 | Corrodias | ...*the one in which somebody |
| 19:29.32 | [MoonWolf] | Secondlife was that i think. |
| 19:29.43 | Corrodias | are you sure? |
| 19:30.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 19:30.07 | Cairenn | Maldivia: well, don't know if it works on live, and if it does, it's worse than the spoofed item links |
| 19:30.07 | Cairenn | [MoonWolf]: the /random rolls with the newlines ? |
| 19:30.07 | Cairenn | Maldivia: nope... br |
| 19:30.07 | Cairenn | Maldivia: brb |
| 19:30.07 | Cairenn | Cairenn: what's the issue Maldivia? |
| 19:30.08 | Cairenn | Cairenn: before you post |
| 19:30.09 | Corrodias | well, from what you said, i don't suppose you're "sure" |
| 19:30.10 | Cairenn | Cairenn: if it's something that serious, then you don't want to post it and give the masses any ideas :p |
| 19:30.46 | Cairenn | Maldivia: if it's serious, don't post it |
| 19:30.52 | Cairenn | email it to me and I'll get it to him |
| 19:31.22 | Shouryuu | Corr- No it's PE |
| 19:31.33 | Shouryuu | I'm sure it's PE |
| 19:31.49 | Cairenn | minor (relative) bug = forums .... serious exploits, send to myself or Iriel to get to Slouken, or give to AnduinLothar |
| 19:36.47 | Corrodias | or to me |
| 19:37.00 | Corrodias | especially if it makes you get thousands of gold effortlessly |
| 19:37.18 | Corrodias | i certainly need to know about those. ;) |
| 19:39.42 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 19:44.04 | zeetg | $100,000 |
| 19:44.09 | zeetg | and they didnd nesc pay that much real money |
| 19:44.16 | zeetg | they just had to have that much comparable in game money |
| 19:44.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Stylpe (n=Stylpe@147.84-48-169.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:45.03 | zeetg | or |
| 19:45.05 | zeetg | you can send it to me |
| 19:45.08 | zeetg | and ill make it well known |
| 19:45.08 | zeetg | :D |
| 19:52.57 | Corrodias | didnd nesc pay? |
| 19:53.23 | Cairenn | I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about :p |
| 19:53.24 | Corrodias | i mean, what does that mean? |
| 19:53.33 | Josh_Borke | didn't necessarily? |
| 19:53.45 | Cairenn | I'm sure it was wc |
| 19:54.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 19:55.18 | Eraphine|Lab | oh noes wowwiki down |
| 19:56.05 | Cairenn | not good |
| 19:57.07 | Eraphine|Lab | Stupid question: |
| 19:57.12 | Josh_Borke | smart answer: |
| 19:57.31 | Corrodias | sarcastic retort: |
| 19:57.36 | Cairenn | smartass answer: |
| 19:57.37 | Eraphine|Lab | if I use something like if (UnitMana("Player")) <= 20 then |
| 19:57.46 | Corrodias | erotic reference to your mother: |
| 19:57.47 | Eraphine|Lab | is that automatically localized? is there even a variable generated? |
| 19:58.20 | Josh_Borke | i would say it's localized automagically, but i'm a nub |
| 19:59.02 | Eraphine|Lab | is it destroyed as soon as the conditional is checked? |
| 19:59.24 | Corrodias | i see no variable. |
| 19:59.36 | Eraphine|Lab | so, in terms of memory consumption, does it save any? |
| 19:59.44 | Corrodias | at the most, the call returns a value to the stack, i suppose, where it's popped during the comparison |
| 20:00.33 | Eraphine|Lab | basically I just want to know whether it's any different to localize the output of the UnitMana function and check against it as opposed to encapsulating the output |
| 20:00.51 | Josh_Borke | i see no reason to encapsulate unless you plan to reuse the value |
| 20:01.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 20:01.14 | Corrodias | using it like you did allocates no new memory as far as i know. |
| 20:01.56 | Eraphine|Lab | ah ok. |
| 20:02.31 | zeeg | wts my body for $395! |
| 20:02.35 | zeeg | im only $395 short of my 05 mustang |
| 20:02.36 | zeeg | :D |
| 20:02.51 | Eraphine|Lab | I like the new mustangs |
| 20:02.55 | Eraphine|Lab | they almost look european |
| 20:02.55 | zeeg | ya me too |
| 20:02.58 | zeeg | hrm |
| 20:03.07 | zeeg | now watch jy people skills |
| 20:03.09 | zeeg | ill get them to drop another 500 |
| 20:04.28 | AnduinLothar | why would you want a mustang to look european? O.o |
| 20:05.11 | AnduinLothar | I personally don't like um, but i never thought of them as european looking |
| 20:06.57 | AnduinLothar | dunno, always think of raw power when I think of a mustang...rather than 'sleak' |
| 20:13.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-160.handshake.de) |
| 20:18.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 20:21.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:23.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:24.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:32.18 | Beladona | Ubuntu 6 out next month, can't wait |
| 20:34.01 | AnduinLothar | anything special? |
| 20:34.24 | Beladona | Xorg 7, and the first native compositor for Gnome |
| 20:34.51 | AnduinLothar | in english? |
| 20:35.59 | Ktron | compositor? program which composes? |
| 20:37.04 | Beladona | sorry one sec and I can get a definition for you |
| 20:37.11 | Beladona | short explanation |
| 20:37.28 | Beladona | you know the shadows and special window animations you see in windows xp? |
| 20:37.41 | Tain | There's a request to delay release for some more polish, dunno if it's going to be taken seriously or not. |
| 20:37.44 | Beladona | under menus, windows, see contents while dragging, etc... |
| 20:37.52 | Beladona | that is what a compositor does |
| 20:38.06 | Beladona | it basically gives some basic 3d graphics accelerator features to the window manager |
| 20:38.29 | Tain | Oh and make sure to check on the issue that just came up, evidently the installer for Breezy Badger left the root password in a plaintext log file and people didn't know. |
| 20:38.38 | Beladona | yeah |
| 20:38.45 | Beladona | that shouldn't affect Dapper though |
| 20:38.54 | Beladona | the delay might |
| 20:38.56 | Maldivia | Beladona: meaning, the same Swing will get with Java 6 (as default)...? |
| 20:39.04 | Tain | No it won't. Just being proactive on current installs. :) |
| 20:39.16 | Beladona | dunno, haven't been following swing |
| 20:39.16 | Tem | good lord people are dumb |
| 20:39.20 | Tem | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3975 |
| 20:39.35 | AnduinLothar | ah ok, so simmilar to the mac os x quartz engine only presumably not as expansive |
| 20:39.40 | Beladona | not sure composition features is something java needs though |
| 20:39.52 | Beladona | its the same thing Anduin |
| 20:39.56 | Beladona | transparency |
| 20:39.57 | Beladona | all that |
| 20:40.00 | Beladona | scaling |
| 20:40.02 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 20:40.05 | AnduinLothar | kool |
| 20:40.09 | Beladona | not not as advanced I am sure |
| 20:40.09 | AnduinLothar | the xp version sux |
| 20:40.15 | Beladona | I agree |
| 20:40.27 | Maldivia | Tem: well, it would be possible if Blizzard coded it, since signed code aren't bound by the hardware event rule :) |
| 20:40.36 | Shouryuu | If I hooked the "whisper sending" function, and made it show no whispers at all, and then proceed to executed some code like this: A={} A is a table full of 10 000 names, for i=1,10 000 do SendChatMessage("This is spam","whisper",a[i]) end. Would I get disconected for sending too many whispers at the same time? |
| 20:40.42 | Beladona | there are some linux compositors on dev tables right now that make Macs look outdated |
| 20:40.48 | Beladona | but who knows when those will be out |
| 20:40.57 | AnduinLothar | i don't doubt it |
| 20:41.09 | AnduinLothar | only thing is quartz has been in X since day 1 |
| 20:41.12 | Beladona | by then Apple will be caught up or past it |
| 20:41.16 | Beladona | =P |
| 20:41.21 | AnduinLothar | so it's already 5+ years old |
| 20:41.38 | Beladona | well they also have the advantage of a strong paid development team |
| 20:41.44 | Maldivia | Shouryuu: it's the server that kicks you for flooding, so if you're sending 10000 whispers you'll get kicked, even if you hide them locally |
| 20:41.45 | AnduinLothar | :) always helps |
| 20:41.47 | Beladona | the linux compositors are mostly open source |
| 20:41.52 | AnduinLothar | of course |
| 20:42.00 | AnduinLothar | i fully understand the dilema |
| 20:42.01 | Beladona | which makes them slow unfrotunately |
| 20:42.18 | AnduinLothar | no managers kicking the devs int he ass for motivation |
| 20:42.19 | Shouryuu | maldiva - Ok thanks, that's what I feared... |
| 20:42.25 | Beladona | Novel recently picked up a couple compositors though |
| 20:42.53 | Ktron | crazy, I didn't know that is was a compositor was... I was actually guessing beforehand that it was like a website composer or something |
| 20:43.20 | AnduinLothar | that would be a composer :P |
| 20:43.52 | AnduinLothar | compositer woudl deal with composites. think of it as the grouping tool in flash |
| 20:43.55 | Miravlix | I personally think Open Source projects release to much, only a little worse than addons |
| 20:44.11 | Beladona | the one in Ubuntu I think is XGL |
| 20:44.24 | Miravlix | Bit much having to check hourly for updates to everything |
| 20:44.29 | Beladona | they have an expose trick too, with alt-tab |
| 20:44.35 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 20:44.43 | Beladona | eerybody loves that feature |
| 20:44.48 | AnduinLothar | of course |
| 20:44.51 | AnduinLothar | it's sexy |
| 20:44.55 | AnduinLothar | and damn useful |
| 20:45.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 20:45.27 | AnduinLothar | i don't use the program windows one that much, but expose all windows and desktop i use every time i use a mac |
| 20:46.06 | AnduinLothar | i still haven't really decided what I think about apple including widgets yet tho... |
| 20:46.56 | Beladona | http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Movie-cube.jpg |
| 20:46.59 | Beladona | check that out |
| 20:47.04 | AnduinLothar | they're useful... but you can't quit expose and they don't act liek normal applications so i'm not sure how I stand memory/proc usage-wise |
| 20:47.23 | Beladona | thats a running video |
| 20:47.27 | Josh_Borke | ok, that's freaky |
| 20:47.29 | Beladona | being bent in 3d |
| 20:47.31 | Beladona | pretty neat |
| 20:47.59 | AnduinLothar | neat, but useful? |
| 20:48.07 | Beladona | http://en.opensuse.org/Xgl |
| 20:48.19 | Beladona | its just an advanced trick for switching desktops |
| 20:48.24 | Beladona | as useful as Expose I would guess |
| 20:48.37 | AnduinLothar | os x has the desktop switching cube lol |
| 20:49.00 | AnduinLothar | you can't wrap around like that, it's a user switch |
| 20:49.13 | AnduinLothar | but similar effect |
| 20:49.15 | Beladona | right |
| 20:49.21 | Beladona | which is probably where they got the idea |
| 20:49.25 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 20:49.56 | AnduinLothar | w/e if they want to make it OSS i don't mind, just kinda funny |
| 20:50.40 | AnduinLothar | had a friend ask me what's so special about macs... I'm like... everyone's copying stuff they did 5 years ago, they musta got something right |
| 20:50.56 | Shouryuu | rawr out people |
| 20:51.41 | Tain | And here I'm looking for bare-bones skins. Turn off all that graphical fluff stuff entirely. |
| 20:52.07 | AnduinLothar | does make it faster |
| 20:53.55 | Beladona | Apple has always been good at user interface and design |
| 20:54.11 | Beladona | how many of MS features were Apple induced? |
| 20:54.22 | AnduinLothar | too many |
| 20:54.36 | AnduinLothar | ui and design is what they're best at |
| 20:55.05 | AnduinLothar | the hardware is a different group of people, but you still see the design influence |
| 20:56.56 | AnduinLothar | i still haven't determined what MS is best at... they are quite prodigious though |
| 20:57.58 | AnduinLothar | for example if Windows only had 15% of the market what would keep MS afloat? |
| 20:59.46 | Maldivia | Office? |
| 21:00.23 | AnduinLothar | possibly. woudl it sell as well w/o the windows dominance tho? |
| 21:02.13 | AnduinLothar | I think MS could easily make a better OS, but they don't have much competition in the form of another OS that can be shipped on PC's |
| 21:02.40 | Beladona | Office is only big due to popularity and heavy marketing. There are numerous alternate solutions that are just as good if not better in some situations |
| 21:02.44 | Maldivia | Windows is not a bad OS |
| 21:02.50 | AnduinLothar | i dissagree |
| 21:03.00 | Gryphen | of course you would |
| 21:03.00 | AnduinLothar | have you seen the memory management? |
| 21:03.05 | AnduinLothar | it's horrid |
| 21:03.05 | Beladona | one of the things that kills office, and MS is scrambling to change, is the "proprietary" formats |
| 21:03.16 | Beladona | and they still aren't getting it right in Office 12 |
| 21:03.36 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: I agree, it could be better... but in 99% of the cases, Windows works for what it's needed for |
| 21:03.50 | Beladona | Windows works because it has to |
| 21:03.54 | AnduinLothar | being sufficient isn't enough reason for it to thrive tho |
| 21:03.58 | Tain | It's still a silly argument. Windows has more than 15% of the market so there's no way to know what they'd do differently. |
| 21:04.04 | Maldivia | meaning, the home, for people who have no idea how to configure a computer |
| 21:04.07 | Tain | AnduinLothar: That's what drives the world. |
| 21:04.10 | Tain | Being just good enough. |
| 21:04.20 | AnduinLothar | if you say so |
| 21:04.31 | AnduinLothar | possibly true |
| 21:04.42 | AnduinLothar | tho sad |
| 21:04.46 | Tain | Innovation rarely is rewarded when it's innovative. |
| 21:04.59 | Beladona | don't get me wrong, MS has done alot in driving computer technology in general into the homes of billions of people |
| 21:05.19 | Beladona | but I really don't see them as "superior" by any means |
| 21:05.30 | AnduinLothar | right, but i'd put that to marketting and business |
| 21:05.31 | Beladona | they can still learn a lot from Apple and others |
| 21:05.34 | Tain | For all the faults and philosophical complaints about MS and their software, it pays my bills so I really don't care. |
| 21:05.44 | AnduinLothar | :) tain |
| 21:05.44 | Maldivia | Tain: mostly because, in the world of computers, where the majority of users aren't that computer savy, any new innovation would come of as something unknown, and thus would be "hard" to learn |
| 21:05.54 | Gryphen | no matter the marketing, if it didnt work, people wouldnt use it |
| 21:06.12 | Tain | It isn't just computers though Maldivia. It's everywhere. Well, in my opinion. |
| 21:06.17 | Beladona | people would still use it |
| 21:06.21 | AnduinLothar | blue screen ftl |
| 21:06.23 | Beladona | they would just pay people like us to make it work |
| 21:06.30 | Maldivia | Tain: true |
| 21:06.52 | Gryphen | i never get a blue screen.. |
| 21:06.56 | Tain | Plus everyone knows there's only one thing that drives technology adoption for the masses. |
| 21:07.01 | Gryphen | think that is a common thing or something? |
| 21:07.03 | Beladona | you aren't a typical user |
| 21:07.03 | AnduinLothar | heh, i have the majic touch |
| 21:07.07 | Tain | Porn. |
| 21:07.10 | Beladona | has your grandma ever gotten one" |
| 21:07.13 | Beladona | ? |
| 21:07.22 | Gryphen | a blue screen? |
| 21:07.24 | Beladona | that assuming she has a computer |
| 21:07.25 | Gryphen | no |
| 21:07.30 | Tem | you know, I rarely crash windows |
| 21:07.32 | Brodrick | People would use a new innovative feature, but what percentage, and how many would actually understand why they're using it? |
| 21:07.35 | Tem | very, very rarely |
| 21:07.52 | Tain | My gramma is at the blue screen in the sky. |
| 21:08.00 | Cairenn | I'm trying to remember the last time I had BSoD |
| 21:08.00 | Tem | I find it to be considerably more stable than some of the apps I run |
| 21:08.05 | AnduinLothar | I must be expecting too much or something, cause i've been using windows half my life and i can still get a blue screen when I try to do something new, which happens a lot |
| 21:08.18 | Beladona | ever since windows 2000 bsod has all but dissapeared |
| 21:08.27 | Maldivia | hmm... if I start EQ2 and camp to the char select screen... Windows blue screens :) |
| 21:08.30 | Brodrick | Assuming you're not running Windows ME, you're fairly "safe" running windows. |
| 21:08.32 | Tem | AnduinLothar: I get the feeling that you have really used windows in about 6 years |
| 21:08.39 | Beladona | switching to the ntkernel was the best thing ms ever did |
| 21:08.41 | Tain | Yeah I haven't had windows crash on me in a long, long time. It's always my hardware or software. |
| 21:08.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge End__ (n=end@c-67-161-159-86.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:08.48 | Brodrick | Maldvia - don't bring eq2 in to this. :p |
| 21:08.49 | AnduinLothar | lol, I use XP at work atm |
| 21:08.49 | Corrodias | has your grandpa ever crashed linux? |
| 21:09.02 | Maldivia | Brodrick: well, it was just on the subject of BSOD :) |
| 21:09.16 | Maldivia | ... not to be confused with BSD :) |
| 21:09.18 | AnduinLothar | and in the 4 weeks i've worked there 've blue screened it twice |
| 21:09.19 | Beladona | the main thing that keeps ms in business |
| 21:09.21 | Corrodias | windows itself is pretty damn stable. OS bugs account for a very small portion of BSOD and crashing issues. |
| 21:09.32 | Beladona | is the "you can't fire me because I am too necessary" complex |
| 21:09.36 | Maldivia | *cough* buggy crivers *cough* |
| 21:10.25 | Gryphen | eh, its a argument not to be won |
| 21:10.26 | Corrodias | and when i say "windows" i mean XP with appropriate updates or 2k3 |
| 21:10.26 | Gryphen | i think elietists just like to bash |
| 21:10.26 | Beladona | too much software only runs on windows |
| 21:10.26 | Brodrick | It's the main reason why people go with Windows over Linux or something else. |
| 21:10.26 | Beladona | so its a necessity |
| 21:10.26 | Brodrick | Windows is everywhere |
| 21:10.48 | Tain | I'm a strong propoent of elitism. |
| 21:10.48 | Brodrick | If something breaks, people who are making the decisions (ie: the non-computer savy ones) are going to go with Windows because it's familiar to them. |
| 21:10.51 | Corrodias | all we need is linux to support the winapi |
| 21:11.03 | Tain | Nah, they'll go with Windows because they can get cheap support for it. |
| 21:11.03 | Maldivia | Wine ? .) |
| 21:11.05 | Beladona | that won't happen |
| 21:11.13 | Beladona | wine is about as close as you will get |
| 21:11.18 | Brodrick | Tain - which is a product of it being everywhere. |
| 21:11.18 | AnduinLothar | that a one-eyed smily? |
| 21:11.36 | Brodrick | Tain - the problem with windows over something like linux is you need a team of people working on windows servers all the time. |
| 21:11.36 | Tain | True Brodrick, but business is out to make money. |
| 21:11.52 | AnduinLothar | wheee party |
| 21:11.57 | Brodrick | If you have a linux server setup well, you can mostly forget about it. |
| 21:12.06 | Brodrick | If it breaks, yes, it'll be very bad, and cost a lot. |
| 21:12.06 | Tain | Brodrick coming from a place that has Windows, Solaris, AIX, and Linux servers, you need those people no matter what. And you pay more for the Linux ones. |
| 21:12.10 | AnduinLothar | ok, karl's done bashing... anyone got something nifty we can praise? |
| 21:12.15 | Brodrick | But it's going to break far far less often. |
| 21:12.22 | Gryphen | so easy to toss facts |
| 21:12.28 | Beladona | its a catch22 |
| 21:12.40 | Maldivia | I have no problems using Windows as my main OS... and the main reason for that is, it's convenient, because the majority of programs I work with are Windows programs... I could ofcourse have Wine running on BSD, but guess I'm to lazy for that |
| 21:12.43 | Beladona | software developers have to see a market to make linux compatible software |
| 21:12.57 | Beladona | but there can't really be a market without linux compatible software |
| 21:13.24 | Beladona | so for now we have open source and people who love linux enough to make software work for it |
| 21:13.29 | AnduinLothar | so someone needs to dump a lot of money into OSS. i nominate google |
| 21:13.54 | Beladona | lol google |
| 21:13.55 | AnduinLothar | actually.... i nominate MS too... they can create their own compitition |
| 21:14.07 | Tain | It's really all nice to debate but the fact is I'm running Windows until the games are supported on Linux, and I'm not going out of my way to help them do it. I don't have the ambition, nor the need. |
| 21:14.07 | Beladona | the jury is still out if they want to save the world, or own it |
| 21:14.17 | Tain | I for one welcome our new Google overlords. |
| 21:14.25 | AnduinLothar | google ftw |
| 21:14.27 | Beladona | I totally aggree tain |
| 21:14.40 | Corrodias | google gives us free stuff! |
| 21:14.44 | Beladona | I am not a Linux Supremist where I will boycott windows software till it goes linux |
| 21:15.00 | Beladona | I will use it on windows, until I find a way to use it on linux, or not if that never happens |
| 21:15.11 | Beladona | but that doesn't stop me from wishing it would |
| 21:15.14 | Corrodias | i run windows virtual machines in windows, man. i'm a windows guy. |
| 21:15.27 | Tain | Now I do think the gaming industry has a better chance to drive Linux home adoption than the business software industry. |
| 21:15.30 | Gryphen | because if it ran on linux of course it would be better.... |
| 21:15.33 | AnduinLothar | ya, i'm kinda stratling the fence. I use SBC/Yahoo email+ blogger + google for searching |
| 21:15.48 | Tain | mmmm gmail is my bestest friend. |
| 21:15.48 | Beladona | hell, I went with a native windows 2003 domain here at work because of so much ms-only software |
| 21:15.52 | Corrodias | google mail still requires invitations; i don't join clubs just for email |
| 21:15.57 | AnduinLothar | i'm really not a gmail fan |
| 21:16.01 | Tain | haha I loves me my gmail. |
| 21:16.02 | Beladona | I woulda gone linux, but you just can't in many companies |
| 21:16.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:16.36 | Tain | And seeing as every gmail account has 1000 invites a day, it's hardly an exclusive club. |
| 21:16.45 | AnduinLothar | now if gmail would auto-sync with my address book... |
| 21:16.47 | Beladona | I do hope MS learns to be a little more giving with their licensing though |
| 21:16.55 | Corrodias | i don't like their attitude |
| 21:16.58 | Beladona | right now it costs a fortune to be legal |
| 21:17.02 | AnduinLothar | and allow me to smtp |
| 21:17.21 | Tain | Ah yeah that's valid, AnduinLothar. I use gmail completely web-based, and still have a yahoo account I use to pop. |
| 21:17.39 | Maldivia | I use gmail as a forwarder :) |
| 21:17.41 | Beladona | rumor is MS is experimenting with new licensing though, such as buying a product and using it on up to 3 computers |
| 21:17.50 | Beladona | which would be nice |
| 21:18.03 | Corrodias | with an MS technician visiting your house every week to check up on you :) |
| 21:18.10 | Gryphen | they arlready have that for the educational labeled software |
| 21:18.20 | Beladona | I am talking main stream |
| 21:18.20 | Tain | Of course I can't even power on my Linux server right now, I have to go get a vga cable to see why it's not booting. |
| 21:18.55 | Beladona | I would love to see Vista come in family packs |
| 21:19.02 | Beladona | like Mac OS does |
| 21:19.06 | Gryphen | gmail has pop/smtp |
| 21:19.20 | Gryphen | doesnt it? |
| 21:19.58 | Gryphen | http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13278&query=&topic=0&type=f |
| 21:20.00 | Tain | I think so, I just don't use it is all. |
| 21:20.14 | AnduinLothar | did they recently add it? |
| 21:20.20 | Maldivia | it has pop... probably not smtp |
| 21:20.34 | Maldivia | wouldn't be very vice :) |
| 21:20.36 | Corrodias | that reminds me... i have no monitor for my new computer. if i take it home for the weekend, i'm going to have to drag along my big desktop monitor |
| 21:20.45 | AnduinLothar | honestly haven't checked recently, but i don't like pop and they didn't have smpt 6 months ago |
| 21:20.48 | Corrodias | i have a KVM switch but that doesn't help with a monitor a hundred miles away |
| 21:20.57 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: why would they have smtp ? |
| 21:21.07 | Corrodias | so you can send mail, right? |
| 21:21.08 | Beladona | time to head out - have fun |
| 21:21.12 | Gryphen | they have had pop for some time |
| 21:21.19 | Corrodias | bye |
| 21:21.33 | Gryphen | not sure about smtp |
| 21:21.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 21:21.38 | Maldivia | Having an open relay smtp server is the same as announcing to the net "here's a mail server, use it to spam all you want" |
| 21:22.21 | Corrodias | i'm pretty sure it would take, you know, passwords and stuff |
| 21:22.26 | Corrodias | like all others do |
| 21:22.30 | AnduinLothar | heh, usually |
| 21:22.32 | Gryphen | lol |
| 21:22.43 | Maldivia | and how hard is it to get an accound, and then create 100 other accounts a day for unlimited passwords? |
| 21:22.43 | AnduinLothar | does it have imap? |
| 21:23.05 | Corrodias | how hard is it to send mail through google mail? |
| 21:23.05 | Gryphen | http://mail.google.com/support |
| 21:23.36 | AnduinLothar | Does Gmail support IMAP? Gmail doesn't currently support IMAP access. |
| 21:23.59 | Tain | You do have to send an invitation to an existing email account, and I'm pretty sure they don't let you send 2 invites to the same email address. |
| 21:24.30 | Maldivia | Tain: well, I'll register a domain, and then send to a@domain b@domain c@domain etc... |
| 21:24.41 | Maldivia | and have a collect-all mail address |
| 21:24.56 | Corrodias | i wonder what it takes to get your own email server connected to the "network" |
| 21:25.02 | AnduinLothar | what I'd like to do is use imap/smtp and run it down to my home computer and still be able to email out with a mail client and also be able to see the mail on the server from the web browser when i'm at a remote location |
| 21:25.14 | Tain | Yeah it's not like it's difficult. I'm just saying you do have to put some effort into it if it really is worth whatever you get out of it. |
| 21:25.22 | Maldivia | Corrodias: a domain name, and an MX record - meaning not much |
| 21:26.26 | Corrodias | what i don't understand is why google still requires invitations. that chafes me. |
| 21:26.30 | AnduinLothar | I basicly want to have 2 copies of every mail (unless i delete it). one on a server I can access anywhere and one on my desktop that auto syncs using a mail client |
| 21:27.08 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: hehe, do like me... my gmail accounts forwards to another account, I have IMAP access to :) |
| 21:27.20 | AnduinLothar | that sounds useless |
| 21:27.47 | Gryphen | you can get gmail by pop and leave a copy on the web |
| 21:27.49 | Maldivia | not really, that means if my gmail account gets on spam lists, I can just remove the forward |
| 21:28.07 | AnduinLothar | you still can't mail from your mail client w/o using the browser |
| 21:28.14 | Maldivia | ofcourse I can |
| 21:28.24 | AnduinLothar | not from the gmail |
| 21:28.27 | Tain | Yeah you can |
| 21:28.29 | Maldivia | I'll just set maldivia@gmail.com as the sender |
| 21:28.53 | Gryphen | omg stop with the spam thing, its just like any other service lol |
| 21:28.53 | AnduinLothar | so just mask the reply address? |
| 21:28.55 | Corrodias | if you want to put it that way, -i- can send mail from your google account, too |
| 21:29.12 | Corrodias | i don't think that counts |
| 21:29.18 | AnduinLothar | not really.. |
| 21:29.51 | Gryphen | AnduinLothar, try it out, it might work like you want |
| 21:29.59 | Gryphen | only not with imap |
| 21:30.01 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: the only indication that it was not send from the web interface, is of you look at the trace in the mail headers, you'll see a non-gmail SMTP server as the first step |
| 21:30.22 | AnduinLothar | i understand why for security.. but it's too much security for me. my parents have sbc dsl at home so i use the yahoo sbc primere email |
| 21:30.58 | AnduinLothar | course if they weren't paying i might choose something else |
| 21:31.18 | Maldivia | I use my ISPs SMTP server when at home, my schools SMTP server when at school etc... |
| 21:32.25 | AnduinLothar | w/e I have a drop down from my desktop mail client to choose from my 4 smtp accounts on the compose page |
| 21:32.50 | AnduinLothar | i'm sure outlook has somehting similar |
| 21:33.01 | Maldivia | I have a dropdown, where I choose between my different mail-addresses... but they are all send via the same SMTP server |
| 21:33.29 | AnduinLothar | spose that works |
| 21:33.51 | Maldivia | yeah... and I know who to kick if it doesnt :) |
| 21:34.05 | AnduinLothar | ah, there we go. was lookign for size. my yahoo is 2gb |
| 21:34.21 | AnduinLothar | what's gmail now? 4? |
| 21:34.49 | Gryphen | 2.7 |
| 21:34.53 | AnduinLothar | ah |
| 21:34.57 | Maldivia | ... and counting |
| 21:35.02 | Tain | 100000gig |
| 21:35.17 | Maldivia | 2gb... as in you have 2gb mails, or have 2gb at your disposal? |
| 21:35.50 | AnduinLothar | i hit my limit once on my school account at 25mb... but then i set it to delete spam folder mails every day |
| 21:36.01 | AnduinLothar | 2gb space |
| 21:36.07 | AnduinLothar | 5% full atm |
| 21:36.11 | Maldivia | I have 160MB mail at the moment... I just trimmed it :) |
| 21:36.35 | Maldivia | just deleted my archives :) |
| 21:36.47 | AnduinLothar | there was a while i was getting 3k spam per day to my cosmosui account |
| 21:37.10 | Maldivia | luckily I have some nice filters for that :) |
| 21:37.39 | AnduinLothar | ya, same but i left for a weekend and it ate a large portion of my space |
| 21:39.10 | Maldivia | well, my filters send all spam directly to /dev/null :) |
| 21:39.48 | AnduinLothar | i skim mine once a week or so just in case |
| 21:40.28 | AnduinLothar | sometimes just for a laugh |
| 21:40.40 | AnduinLothar | and to see what kinda of viruses are new |
| 21:41.03 | Maldivia | well, I skim those my filters doesn't catch... around 5 mails a day or so |
| 21:41.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust242.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:42.48 | Legorol | hi guys |
| 21:42.57 | Cairenn | hey Legorol :) |
| 21:42.59 | Legorol | if i'm the GM of a guild, how do i pass it on to another member? |
| 21:43.17 | AnduinLothar | promote to gm |
| 21:43.23 | AnduinLothar | i think.. |
| 21:43.30 | Legorol | how do i do that? don't seem to be able to. |
| 21:43.54 | AnduinLothar | not on the guild frame |
| 21:43.55 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 21:43.59 | Legorol | nope.. |
| 21:44.07 | Legorol | i can promote/demote people, but only up to the rank below me |
| 21:44.09 | Gryphen | /gpromote <name> |
| 21:44.16 | Gryphen | think |
| 21:44.41 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.47 | Legorol | Gryphen, i get: "<Nameofplayer>'s rank too high" |
| 21:45.03 | Legorol | Cairenn: is that a command not available via the GUI? |
| 21:45.03 | Cairenn | it's /gleader |
| 21:45.13 | Cairenn | aye |
| 21:45.35 | Legorol | i tried it on Bob, and it says "Bob" not found |
| 21:45.42 | Legorol | (Bob is name of other guildie) |
| 21:45.46 | Legorol | he is offline atm though.. |
| 21:45.51 | Legorol | does the person have to be online? |
| 21:45.54 | Cairenn | they have to be online |
| 21:46.13 | Legorol | :/ |
| 21:46.21 | Legorol | so, i can't leave the guild without promoting someone to GM, |
| 21:46.23 | Legorol | and noone is online |
| 21:46.25 | Legorol | am i screwed? |
| 21:46.32 | Gryphen | omg the boss addons are so spammy |
| 21:46.40 | Cairenn | well, you can disband the guild :p |
| 21:46.43 | AnduinLothar | it'll promote someone if you leave i think.. |
| 21:46.48 | Legorol | i can't leave.. i tried |
| 21:46.52 | AnduinLothar | bah |
| 21:46.58 | Cairenn | or else you wait until someone is on |
| 21:46.59 | Legorol | if i try /gquit, it says i must promote someone to GM first |
| 21:47.00 | AnduinLothar | maybe i'll bug it |
| 21:47.05 | Legorol | Cairenn: noone else will ever be on |
| 21:47.08 | Legorol | the guild is abandoned |
| 21:47.11 | Legorol | and i'm stuck in it |
| 21:47.13 | AnduinLothar | disband it |
| 21:47.14 | Cairenn | then disband it |
| 21:47.16 | krka | heh |
| 21:47.16 | Gryphen | disband |
| 21:47.18 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.21 | krka | disband |
| 21:47.22 | Legorol | hmmm |
| 21:47.44 | Gryphen | if nobody is ever one, i dont think that would be a problem |
| 21:47.47 | Gryphen | on* |
| 21:47.53 | Cairenn | yeah, really |
| 21:48.14 | Legorol | well.. the thing is, we have merged with another guild |
| 21:48.23 | Legorol | there is a GMOTD saying everyone move over to the new one |
| 21:48.33 | Legorol | but there is a chance someone will still log in, so... disbanding is not ideal |
| 21:48.36 | Legorol | but i may not have a choice |
| 21:48.59 | AnduinLothar | :P make an alt and invite it and make it leader in the 20 sec overlap while you force quit |
| 21:49.00 | Legorol | yup disband worked |
| 21:49.04 | Legorol | way too easily, in fact |
| 21:49.13 | Legorol | lol @ AnduinLothar, that might've worked |
| 21:49.14 | Gryphen | think there is a prompt AnduinLothar |
| 21:49.28 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, if you want to bug something, then bug this: there is absolutely NO confirmation when you type /gdisband |
| 21:49.32 | Legorol | i think that's a bit scary |
| 21:49.38 | AnduinLothar | :) ya |
| 21:49.40 | Legorol | think about it, GM gets drunk one night.. |
| 21:50.09 | Legorol | also, bug that there is no GUI for /gquit, /gleader, /gdisband :D |
| 21:50.18 | krka | hmm... cool hidden addon feature |
| 21:50.58 | AnduinLothar | ya, my silly supervisors get irritated when we bug suggestions as bugs |
| 21:51.25 | AnduinLothar | but they removed our suggestion power, so there's not really any other way.. |
| 21:51.35 | krka | time to sleep |
| 21:51.40 | AnduinLothar | ask slouken maybe or forum it |
| 21:51.45 | Cairenn | night krka, sweet dreams |
| 21:52.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@26.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:52.30 | AnduinLothar | or make an addon emensely popular and wait for them to copy it |
| 21:53.55 | Gryphen | like one to see all the guild info in one panel instead of the dang little switch |
| 21:54.27 | AnduinLothar | not quite what i was talkign about, but i spose... might require a wider frame |
| 21:54.47 | Gryphen | would |
| 21:54.49 | Gryphen | heh |
| 22:04.32 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=Josh@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 22:09.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net) |
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| 22:47.42 | JoshBorke | did we get dynamic font strings in 1.9? |
| 22:48.18 | Qzot|atwork | Hey, Josh, did you put anything on the wiki discussion pages? |
| 22:48.54 | JoshBorke | no, after further review, i realized i'm just illiteraate :-) |
| 22:49.05 | JoshBorke | s/illiteraate/illiterate?/ |
| 22:49.21 | JoshBorke | s/illiterate?/illiterate(sp?)/ |
| 22:49.26 | Corrodias | s/illiterate/lillliteralliate |
| 22:49.29 | JoshBorke | hm, guess not |
| 22:49.30 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 22:49.34 | Qzot|atwork | Probably not so. I'm guessing if it didn't make sense on first read, it can prolly be improved. |
| 22:50.15 | Qzot|atwork | May I at least ask which section ganked you? |
| 22:50.58 | JoshBorke | iterate over values |
| 22:52.07 | JoshBorke | no dynamic font strings :-( |
| 22:52.34 | JoshBorke | anyway, time to go. later all, thanks for all the great help :-) |
| 22:53.06 | Qzot|atwork | Would it help if I rated items in 2 dimensions: ease of use, and ease if understanding how it works under the hood? Because iterators would rate easy/hard. |
| 22:53.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 22:53.22 | Josh|Gone | yea, i think that would help :_) |
| 22:53.25 | Qzot|atwork | s/ease if/ease of/ |
| 22:54.15 | Josh|Gone | though i'd argue that tricks are inherently harder to understand :-) |
| 22:54.29 | Qzot|atwork | And educational... |
| 22:54.30 | Qzot|atwork | :D |
| 22:54.36 | Josh|Gone | indeed :-) |
| 22:54.49 | Qzot|atwork | Later. |
| 22:56.48 | AnduinLothar | i hate group papers |
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| 23:07.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Adrine (n=Adrine@208.187.119.42) |
| 23:07.17 | Cairenn | hey Adrine |
| 23:07.27 | Cairenn | AnduinLothar: you still here? |
| 23:07.31 | Adrine | Heyas. |
| 23:07.45 | Adrine | So. Anyway. Cairenn told me to pop in here. :) |
| 23:08.01 | GenNMX|Thrae | Did you bring Snickers(tm) bars? |
| 23:08.12 | Brodrick | I think I just ate the last one |
| 23:08.13 | Tem | I like Snickers |
| 23:08.16 | Adrine | Well, I have black berry chocolate ice cream. |
| 23:08.21 | Cairenn | ! |
| 23:08.43 | GenNMX|Thrae | I'm not a big chocoholic, but I do like it in combination with penut butter. |
| 23:08.49 | Adrine | Have a problem with the Mac client triggering the bug reporter when my mod is first displayed. Doesn't happen after that, and a reloadui won't re-trigger it, but a logout/log in will. |
| 23:08.56 | GenNMX|Thrae | Oddly enough, my mother loathes peanut butter. Nature vs nurture, eh? |
| 23:09.10 | AnduinLothar | moo? |
| 23:09.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 23:09.16 | Adrine | The longwinded details are at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=335922&p=1&tmp=1#post335922 - I'm hoping someone knows what that might be about, and can offer a fix. |
| 23:09.36 | Cairenn | I figure of anyone, you are one of the more likely to be able to help Adrine, AnduinLothar, since you code on a Mac |
| 23:10.05 | Adrine | And I don't happen to have access to a Mac WoW client to test myself, which makes replication...problematic. |
| 23:10.08 | AnduinLothar | usually just means a crash. cept the pc bug reporter is dissabled |
| 23:10.22 | AnduinLothar | does it crash on pc? |
| 23:10.30 | Adrine | I -did- have a friend test it out. He reported that even with the various onload/onshow handlers removed, the error still occured |
| 23:10.33 | Adrine | Nope. |
| 23:10.48 | Adrine | What that tells me is that my XML is disagreeing with the client somehow. |
| 23:11.02 | Adrine | It validates and works fine on the PC, but seems to not play nicely with the mac client. |
| 23:11.05 | GenNMX|Thrae | Adrine: Did you try not loading your XML? |
| 23:11.22 | Adrine | Well, the error occurs when the frame is shown. |
| 23:11.24 | Adrine | Not before. |
| 23:11.52 | Adrine | The frame is hidden by default, and is then show with a command. On first show of a session, the error occurs, but not after. |
| 23:12.06 | Brodrick | assertion ... m_font |
| 23:12.14 | Brodrick | are you calling any fonts directly? |
| 23:12.23 | Adrine | Just a bunch of FontStrings |
| 23:12.29 | Adrine | Lemme see... |
| 23:13.02 | AnduinLothar | try using the font.xml definitions and inheriting them if manually definine doesn't work |
| 23:13.24 | Adrine | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/sanity/Sanity/Sanity.xml |
| 23:13.31 | AnduinLothar | i could prolly repro, but i dont have time to debug atm, i'll play with it at work |
| 23:13.34 | Adrine | There's the XML. The likely culprit is SanityFrame |
| 23:13.44 | Adrine | Heh, don't spend time debugging it. It's a lot of XML. |
| 23:13.53 | Adrine | I was just sorta hoping this was a known issue. |
| 23:14.34 | AnduinLothar | i'll look t up later |
| 23:15.05 | AnduinLothar | it happens with the currently published build? |
| 23:15.23 | Adrine | The test server, you mean? |
| 23:15.30 | Adrine | I haven't had anyone test it out. I can see. |
| 23:15.55 | Adrine | I've put in a test request with my mac guy, so we'll see. :) |
| 23:15.56 | AnduinLothar | well, i meant of your addon, but i will be testin gon 1.10 so you might as well |
| 23:16.08 | Adrine | The currently published build is the one having this issue. |
| 23:16.14 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 23:16.17 | Brodrick | nothing jumps out as being overtly wrong with any of the font strings. |
| 23:16.34 | AnduinLothar | did any previous versions crash? |
| 23:16.45 | Adrine | I didn't have reports of crashes, no |
| 23:16.58 | Adrine | But it's undergone an extensive overhaul in the latest major revision |
| 23:18.35 | AnduinLothar | *grumble* stupid filenames.. |
| 23:19.30 | Adrine | Hey, woot. Tigerclaw asked me to email him with info on it. |
| 23:19.37 | Adrine | That should get it resolved quickly enough. :) |
| 23:19.55 | Kirov | nice |
| 23:20.14 | AnduinLothar | ya, day workers |
| 23:20.35 | Kirov | work? |
| 23:20.44 | Kirov | oh, right ... what I'm supposed to be doing righ tnow |
| 23:22.59 | AnduinLothar | night shift ftw |
| 23:24.24 | AnduinLothar | hmmm, test server likes to get stuck at 'connected' |
| 23:25.46 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 23:25.57 | Cairenn | I got booted a while ago, haven't been able to get back in |
| 23:26.28 | Cairenn | every time it hangs at connected, then will finally seem to connect and immediately dump me back out with a "you've been disconnected" message |
| 23:27.10 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 23:27.25 | AnduinLothar | i got to the char screen once |
| 23:27.49 | AnduinLothar | can get on the honor contest... |
| 23:28.13 | AnduinLothar | other 2 are impossible |
| 23:28.56 | Adrine | I got into the test server once. |
| 23:29.04 | Adrine | I tried to move, got about 5 feet, disconnected. |
| 23:29.17 | Adrine | Said "well, ok, that was fun" and went back to the production client. |
| 23:29.31 | AnduinLothar | I was playing wsg last night on test |
| 23:29.36 | AnduinLothar | and some av |
| 23:29.40 | AnduinLothar | wasn't too bad |
| 23:29.46 | AnduinLothar | but it was 2am |
| 23:29.47 | Kirov | I find the test server is only bearable from around 1am to 4am |
| 23:29.52 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 23:44.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.245.104) |
| 23:44.59 | Kirkburn | Beladona not around? I was going to mention this: "The 2007 Microsoft Office Beta-1 Technical Refresh software is now available for you to download on BetaPlace" |
| 23:47.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.26.207) |
| 23:52.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 23:53.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 23:56.18 | AnduinLothar | arg.. word numbering just owned me |
| 23:56.43 | AnduinLothar | i somehow justleted the number in front of the List Number 2 which is inherited for all the lists... |
| 23:57.03 | AnduinLothar | and crashed word |
| 23:58.58 | Kirkburn | pwned! |
| 23:59.15 | AnduinLothar | now List Numbered isn't even in the list.. |
| 23:59.28 | Kirkburn | 1. Pwned |
| 23:59.33 | Kirkburn | 2. More pwned |
| 23:59.40 | Kirkburn | 3. *kaboom* |
