| 00:00.10 | Ktron | heh, make it jabber based, so you can use gTalk to connect to it and gTalk would _pwn_ aol instant messenger |
| 00:00.20 | Kirkburn | Wouldn't that be soemthing to put to slouken? |
| 00:00.38 | Ktron | I think 'wowbuddy' would be above slouken |
| 00:00.55 | Kirkburn | We can't talk to people above slouken ... |
| 00:01.43 | Ktron | slouken as I understand it, is mostly responsible for how the game interacts with the UI (Lua and so on), but 'wowbuddy' would be above that I think... We could try mentioning it to him when he shows up next, but my guess is that its not something for him to decide/suggest |
| 00:03.16 | Depherios | XD |
| 00:03.56 | Tain | People will keep using what they've always used, en masse. |
| 00:03.59 | AnduinLothar | triton? |
| 00:04.07 | Ktron | purl, wowbuddy is an awesome idea, that I'm no doubt Blizzard has thought of, but it'd be nice to mention to slouken again to see how he reacts to the idea of having a way to talk to people ingame from outside of the game. |
| 00:04.09 | purl | okay, Ktron |
| 00:04.50 | GenNMX|Thrae | Ktron: What's wrong with Xfire? |
| 00:04.51 | AnduinLothar | they tried very hard to disable the previous battle.net chat programs due to bots.. |
| 00:04.53 | Ktron | Tain; I think that's why gtalk will never catch on-- even if AIM's clients start bombing, no one will switch networks, but they'll look for another client if they are forced to get a new one |
| 00:05.22 | Depherios | I run Trillian, miss ICQ, and hate MSN |
| 00:05.24 | Depherios | lol |
| 00:05.48 | Shadowd | It's not built in, and getting your whole guild to use XFire wouldn't be the easiest thing. Having one easy client that everyone can use and lets you talk to anyone on your server would be nice. |
| 00:05.48 | Ktron | AnduinLothar; granted, with WoW, just make you log into an account, and you can identify which accounts are being used for bots, unlike bnet, so that shouldn't be a problem |
| 00:06.36 | GenNMX|Thrae | Shadowd: True, but think of all the increased traffic on Blizzard's servers, especially the login servers. |
| 00:07.01 | AnduinLothar | msn sux. icq i never cared for... |
| 00:07.10 | GenNMX|Thrae | In their current state, I don't think they'd be able to reliably handle it. Xfire uses their own servers, so it's the best solution to the problem right now. |
| 00:07.11 | Depherios | I loved the PARAGRAPH system ICQ used back in the day |
| 00:07.13 | Ktron | GenNMX|Thrae; yeah, Xfire doesn't really have any benefits over sharing everyone's screennames for some network or something... plus, you wouldn't be able to run WoW fullscreen and chat easily, unlike a 'wowbuddy' like program |
| 00:07.14 | AnduinLothar | yahoo is meh... aim i've been using since jr high |
| 00:07.19 | Depherios | where you didn't talk 1 to 1 via CHAT |
| 00:07.40 | AnduinLothar | but i use ichat for aim atm |
| 00:07.41 | Depherios | I still run ICQ |
| 00:07.43 | Depherios | (in Trillian) |
| 00:07.49 | Kirkburn | Why exactly does msn suck? |
| 00:07.53 | GenNMX|Thrae | Ktron: Have you used Xfire w/ WoW Fullscreen? It's pretty easy to chat because it hacks DirectX. |
| 00:08.02 | Depherios | the client is god awful, people can have horrendously long names |
| 00:08.17 | Kirkburn | ah, don't become with that kind of person :) |
| 00:08.22 | Kirkburn | *become friends |
| 00:08.24 | Ktron | GenNMX|Thrae; regardless, I frankly am opposed to programs like MSNZone and Xfire and so on |
| 00:08.33 | GenNMX|Thrae | Eh? Why? |
| 00:08.37 | Ktron | s/I frankly/I am frankly/ |
| 00:08.52 | Depherios | I'd run gtalk in an instant if anybody else ran it D: |
| 00:08.56 | Shadowd | Yeah, I never really liked XFire anyway when I used it. Just being able to talk with all your guild members or even friends on WoW would be nice. It's convenent, doesn't require new software, doesn't require running it on your computer, and doesn't require passing out usernames. |
| 00:08.57 | Ktron | GenNMX|Thrae; Because all the old ones often contained spyware or such ;) |
| 00:09.12 | Depherios | Trillian FTW |
| 00:09.17 | Ktron | GenNMX|Thrae; even MSN's Zone reported game usage and so on and sent you emails based on it |
| 00:09.28 | GenNMX|Thrae | "I frankly" was the correct grammar I believe ;) |
| 00:09.44 | GenNMX|Thrae | Well I'm just talking about Xfire, and it doesn't have spyware now to my knowledge... |
| 00:09.44 | Ktron | GenNMX|Thrae; so it was ;) |
| 00:10.01 | GenNMX|Thrae | MSN-anything will always have spyware, this is a given. |
| 00:10.10 | GenNMX|Thrae | They're Microsoft for crying out loud. |
| 00:10.19 | Kirkburn | Er. whatever |
| 00:10.20 | Ktron | Depherios; I moved away from Trillian when it split into paid/free versions, and they basically stopped developing the free one.... Gaim ftw here |
| 00:10.50 | GenNMX|Thrae | Yeah, I prefer GAIM over Trillian myself too, same reason. |
| 00:11.15 | GenNMX|Thrae | And because I also use Gaim on my *nix boxes. |
| 00:11.39 | Ktron | Yeah, Gaim is cleaner... |
| 00:12.03 | Ktron | heh, I'd rather use Gaim with a plugin written to detect whether WoW.exe is running than Xfire.... it's just overkill, I don't need yet another client for htis |
| 00:12.13 | Ktron | Anyway, I'm off for dinner, later |
| 00:12.26 | Ktron | purl, xfire |
| 00:12.28 | purl | Well, you have normal people, hackers, and then you have XFire. XFire would fit into the latter group if he wasn't so... umm... weird. a NetBSD weenie when he's not a Linux/Debian weenie, or jealous that he did not write apt. the Anti-Bernstein, or not very good at starting arguments. in need of a job, so hire him |
| 00:13.23 | Ktron | purl, xfire is also this ridiculous monstrousity of a client for chatting that detects whether World of Warcraft is running, and makes your computer explode occasionally. |
| 00:13.25 | purl | that's too long, Ktron |
| 00:13.43 | Ktron | purl, xfire is also this ridiculous monstrousity of a client for chatting and makes your computer explode occasionally. |
| 00:13.45 | purl | okay, Ktron |
| 00:13.50 | Ktron | XD |
| 00:13.52 | Ktron | out |
| 00:14.25 | Tain | Heck with all of them. I only use CenterICQ for everything. |
| 00:17.58 | Maldivia | hmm, interesting... calling UseAction from a macro, where the action points to another macro, will run the other macro instantly, and then return to the first macro |
| 00:20.20 | futrtrubl | I am currntly using trillian but I'm going to drop it since I have to close a chat window and reopen it about 5 a conversation because "some messages may be undeliverable"... |
| 00:23.34 | Depherios | sorry I got all quiet, looking at GAIMX D |
| 00:23.42 | Depherios | *GAIM XD |
| 00:23.52 | Depherios | didn't like the older GAIM |
| 00:29.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Violentnight (n=micdrota@ip70-162-67-180.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:32.15 | Violentnight | Hey everybody |
| 00:33.07 | Tem | Some humorous screenshots can be created with CharacterLevelText:SetText("Level 60 Night Elf Hunter") |
| 00:33.26 | Tem | Especially while hovering over warrior tooltips |
| 00:33.35 | kremonte | is there a ToNum() function in lua? :S |
| 00:33.40 | Tem | tonumber |
| 00:33.41 | AnduinLothar | tonumber |
| 00:33.46 | kremonte | haha thanks |
| 00:33.54 | kremonte | i typoed it on wowwiki, grr |
| 00:33.58 | kremonte | tem |
| 00:34.03 | kremonte | you read webcomics |
| 00:34.05 | kremonte | AnduinLothar wins |
| 00:34.24 | Tem | none in nearly 12 hours |
| 00:40.22 | kremonte | ..nearly 12 hours? |
| 00:40.27 | kremonte | you were reading webcomics at 8AM? |
| 00:41.57 | Tem | in class |
| 00:42.02 | Tem | a boring class at that |
| 00:42.10 | kremonte | pfft |
| 00:42.14 | kremonte | make 30minute addons |
| 00:42.17 | kremonte | like i am doing ;o |
| 00:42.22 | Tem | yeah, I can't do that |
| 00:42.34 | kremonte | porque no? |
| 00:42.44 | Tem | there is a law of nature or something that says that I will never finish a project |
| 00:42.46 | Violentnight | pork yes! |
| 00:42.47 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:42.58 | kremonte | lol tem |
| 00:43.00 | Violentnight | haha.. I have that same problem, Tem |
| 00:43.03 | kremonte | this aint even a project |
| 00:43.07 | kremonte | this is ripping apart Hunterloot |
| 00:43.11 | kremonte | and making something for a priest |
| 00:54.45 | futrtrubl | I wish fontstrings had a scripts area so I could have a <OnSizeChanged> handler for it |
| 00:54.58 | Violentnight | suggest it for 1.10 |
| 00:56.23 | futrtrubl | very much doubt it would happen, fontstrings and textures seem fundamentally different from all other widgets so getting scripts for them is.... unlikely |
| 00:57.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Depherio@67.189.88.161) |
| 00:57.23 | Depherios | weee GAIM |
| 00:57.30 | futrtrubl | ;'] |
| 00:58.05 | Depherios | the only confusion I have is the "Send As" option XD |
| 00:58.33 | futrtrubl | which does what? |
| 00:58.39 | Depherios | ... no idea |
| 00:58.41 | Depherios | I can make a window |
| 00:58.46 | Depherios | send as some other client |
| 00:58.53 | Depherios | ... no idea how it's going to GET to the person XD |
| 00:59.17 | Depherios | but I was able to use it to join this chat from an AIM convo, which was pretty neat, if I do say so myself |
| 01:00.19 | Maldivia | Uhh.... "relic" item slot for druid, shaman and paladin |
| 01:01.35 | Corrodias | we don't have relics... |
| 01:01.39 | Corrodias | wait, never mind |
| 01:01.40 | Depherios | wha? |
| 01:01.50 | Corrodias | i was thinking totems |
| 01:02.15 | Maldivia | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6999532&p=1&tmp=1#post6999532 |
| 01:02.38 | Maldivia | ranged slot replacement for the hybrid classes |
| 01:02.47 | Depherios | ahhhh |
| 01:02.59 | Depherios | Expansion? or 1.10? |
| 01:03.08 | Maldivia | see link |
| 01:03.46 | Depherios | I don't have a link D: does GAIM's IRC client suck? or did I log in too late? XD |
| 01:04.03 | Maldivia | just pasted it... |
| 01:04.27 | Corrodias | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6999532&p=1&tmp=1#post6999532 |
| 01:05.33 | AnduinLothar | 1.10 |
| 01:06.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Depherios: GAIM's IRC client sucks. |
| 01:06.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Depherios: the maker of that portion of GAIM says that it sucks. |
| 01:07.52 | kremonte | rofl |
| 01:07.58 | kremonte | ctmod.com = a bunch of gold buying links |
| 01:10.10 | Violentnight | http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com = a bunch of rich idiots |
| 01:10.26 | kremonte | well duh =P |
| 01:14.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 01:16.43 | kremonte | ish anyone around? |
| 01:17.38 | Violentnight | nope |
| 01:18.42 | kremonte | graaaaawr |
| 01:18.47 | AnduinLothar | How much rep do the coins give? |
| 01:18.48 | kremonte | how the hell does CT_RABossMods work |
| 01:18.51 | kremonte | 50 iirc |
| 01:18.58 | Tem|Food | 55 if you're human |
| 01:19.03 | kremonte | DAMN HUMANS |
| 01:19.03 | AnduinLothar | which i am |
| 01:19.10 | kremonte | and AnduinLothar* |
| 01:19.15 | Tem | I <3 being human |
| 01:19.24 | Tem | it'sh nice ...hic! |
| 01:19.49 | Tem | you can take your overpowered ratial and shove it up your ass |
| 01:20.01 | kremonte | agreeing with Tem, for once |
| 01:20.02 | kremonte | and wb cair! |
| 01:20.13 | Cairenn | hi hi |
| 01:20.23 | kremonte | how does this woooork >_< |
| 01:20.42 | kremonte | they're good at using incredibly indescriptive variables |
| 01:20.48 | kremonte | if ( v[event] ) then |
| 01:20.48 | kremonte | v[event](event); |
| 01:20.48 | kremonte | end |
| 01:21.02 | kremonte | v is a table. defined somewhere. |
| 01:21.33 | Tem | sounds like you are suffereing from a case of "wtf" |
| 01:21.38 | kremonte | yes. i am |
| 01:21.53 | kremonte | you know what? screw it |
| 01:21.56 | AnduinLothar | that just means they have a table of events |
| 01:21.57 | kremonte | i'll write from scratch |
| 01:22.04 | Tem | Violentnight can take his 'spelling' and shove it too |
| 01:22.10 | AnduinLothar | key is event name and value is function |
| 01:22.17 | kremonte | all i wanna do is when onyxia/nef begin casting fear, make a panic button, switch to zerker stance |
| 01:22.23 | kremonte | AnduinLothar: duh =P |
| 01:23.05 | Cairenn | errr, Tem? You okay? |
| 01:26.08 | sancus | people still cry about nerfed to crap wotf being overpowered? |
| 01:26.11 | sancus | how 2004 |
| 01:27.17 | Depherios | ewwwww.. Shift+Enter = New Line in GAIM |
| 01:27.19 | Depherios | HATE |
| 01:27.31 | Cairenn | so change it :p |
| 01:28.30 | Tem | sancus: mostly I'm just bitter because it's WAY more useful than all of the other racial abilities |
| 01:28.42 | Cairenn | GAIM > Preferences > Conversations > Shortcuts :p |
| 01:30.41 | Tem | gah! Server queues suck |
| 01:30.51 | Shadowd | Shadowmeld is pretty nice, don't usually have issues with needing a second fear anyway. |
| 01:31.05 | sancus | what? |
| 01:31.07 | sancus | are you insane |
| 01:31.13 | Shadowd | Yes? |
| 01:31.16 | sancus | not you |
| 01:31.17 | sancus | Tem |
| 01:31.20 | Shadowd | oh okay |
| 01:31.25 | sancus | he's out of his mind if he thinks it's the most useful racial ability |
| 01:31.37 | Shadowd | If you're a PVP rogue i'd have to say it is |
| 01:31.58 | Tem | If you're a mage, I have to say it is as well |
| 01:32.08 | sancus | War Stomp and 5% extra hitpoints are excellent, Shadowmeld is excellent too |
| 01:32.18 | sancus | eh I dunno |
| 01:32.19 | Tem | none of which are available to a mage |
| 01:32.24 | sancus | maybe for pvp, but wow's pvp is pointlessly broken |
| 01:32.30 | Corrodias | you're making me want to play WoW. knock it off, i have homework. |
| 01:32.32 | Tem | says you |
| 01:32.40 | sancus | Troll Berserking is *very* nice in pve |
| 01:32.55 | Tem | useless |
| 01:32.55 | Shadowd | Really, though it was pretty bad? |
| 01:32.59 | sancus | whereas wotf is completely useless |
| 01:33.00 | sancus | in pve |
| 01:33.15 | sancus | no it's not bad |
| 01:33.15 | Shadowd | Not completly true, it's nice during Nef, Mag and Ony. Not needed but it's nice |
| 01:33.18 | sancus | the new version is very good |
| 01:33.34 | Tem | Beserking is activated by crits, right? |
| 01:34.01 | Ktron | not anymore |
| 01:34.03 | sancus | no |
| 01:34.07 | Tem | oh? |
| 01:34.08 | Ktron | it's activated whenever you want |
| 01:34.15 | Tain | There's a lot of abilities that are perfectly good for use in 5 man pve groups, or soloing, that have no use in raids. But that goes for everything in the game. |
| 01:34.21 | Ktron | and it's 10% to 30% speed inr, depending on how low your health is |
| 01:34.22 | sancus | berserking is an activatable ability whose effect scales based on how low your hitpoints are from 10%-30% increased casting time |
| 01:34.39 | Ktron | more than casting |
| 01:34.40 | Shadowd | WOTF is better then Shadowmeld if we don't want to include PVP though. |
| 01:34.47 | Ktron | and decreased casting time, as in it's faster |
| 01:34.48 | sancus | So you pop one of those health to mana runes and slap it off and get 20% casting speed improvement which is basically 25% increased damage |
| 01:34.51 | sancus | every 3 minutes |
| 01:34.57 | sancus | it's almost as good as arcane power |
| 01:35.15 | Tem | wow! that's considerably less crappy than it used to be |
| 01:35.20 | Tain | Arcane Power is overrated. ;) |
| 01:35.27 | Tem | Arcane Power is overpowered |
| 01:35.31 | Shadowd | not with those blasted trinkets! |
| 01:35.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Lies @ you both |
| 01:35.35 | Ktron | hey Cairenn, you'd probably know if this is something to mention to slouken or not... |
| 01:35.42 | sancus | haha tem |
| 01:35.50 | sancus | do you just read the cesspit forums and take your opinions from there or something |
| 01:35.55 | sancus | by which I mean wow general |
| 01:36.08 | Tem | I don't read the forums |
| 01:36.12 | Ktron | purl, wowbuddy |
| 01:36.13 | purl | [wowbuddy] an awesome idea, that I'm no doubt Blizzard has thought of, but it'd be nice to mention to slouken again to see how he reacts to the idea of having a way to talk to people ingame from outside of the game. |
| 01:36.15 | Ktron | Cairenn; ^^ |
| 01:36.26 | Cairenn | play nice kids :p |
| 01:36.28 | sancus | Arcane Power is pretty weak overall, its nice in wsg, but thats it |
| 01:36.28 | Iriel | It wouldn't be his call |
| 01:36.32 | Shadowd | We are playing nice :p |
| 01:36.49 | Cairenn | Ktron: What Iriel said |
| 01:36.49 | Shadowd | Whats arcane power do again, it's like % damage increase and mana cost? |
| 01:36.50 | Iriel | And i'm pretty sure the answer is a firm 'no' given how they feel about AH access outside of game |
| 01:36.53 | Ktron | Iriel; I didn't think so... would it even be worth mentioning to him? |
| 01:36.55 | sancus | shadow: oh, and the magmadar fear doesnt affect mages, they can cast from out of range of it |
| 01:36.59 | sancus | same for Nefarian |
| 01:37.00 | sancus | outrange his fear |
| 01:37.04 | sancus | onyxia is the only fear you cant outrange |
| 01:37.10 | Shadowd | True, I keep thinking of it in terms of melee |
| 01:37.13 | Iriel | I would say no, it wouldn't be worth mentioning to him. Post it in the suggestions forum where it belongs |
| 01:37.22 | sancus | And they fear so obscenely often |
| 01:37.28 | Iriel | That is read, from what I hear. |
| 01:37.29 | Ktron | AH access as in Auction House access? how would whispers give you AH access? |
| 01:37.29 | sancus | that wotf doesnt reduce much of it with its long cooldown |
| 01:37.48 | Tain | Iriel: The only thing that would make me think they'd consider it is the fact that they could control all pieces of it. i.e. the external chat client would be Blizzard's as well. |
| 01:37.49 | Shadowd | Yeah, but it's better then shadowmeld at least, it's only useful for going AFK and not finding out someone decided to wipe the group :p |
| 01:37.49 | Iriel | My point being, if you want to be in the game world, then log into the game. |
| 01:38.12 | Tain | I like the fact that other games have allowed you to communicate with people in-game. |
| 01:38.15 | sancus | Shadowd: yea probably, but shadowmeld is more powerful than wotf in pvp imo |
| 01:38.15 | Iriel | That's the philosophy as I interpreted it. It is of curse just my opinion. |
| 01:38.27 | Tain | It lets you still coordinate with your guild and friends when you can't be there. |
| 01:38.44 | sancus | its kind of strange they haven't made an eternal chat client, given EQ has had one forever |
| 01:38.47 | Ktron | Iriel; alright, maybe I'll at least check the forums too to make sure it hasn't already been addressed... it'd be nice for forming for guild events |
| 01:38.47 | Iriel | Not to mention that you just invented real time out-of-sandbox IO |
| 01:38.50 | sancus | but its not like they've learned anything else from EQ, so shrug |
| 01:39.14 | Shadowd | sancus: I've got mixed feelings mostly, both my rogue and warrior are night elfs, and it's pretty nice, but on my rogue I'd take WOTF over Shadowmeld any day. |
| 01:39.22 | Tain | bah! EQ implemented it only after other games were doing it first. |
| 01:39.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Violentnight-shi (n=micdrota@ip70-162-67-180.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:39.38 | sancus | what other games? |
| 01:39.44 | Iriel | WoW has learned a lot from EQ, both in terms of what it does, and what it does NOT do. |
| 01:39.50 | Tain | and it took them forever to do one that wasn't half-assed and only let you do tells from individuals. |
| 01:39.53 | Violentnight-shi | what's that command to boot a dead nick? |
| 01:39.57 | sancus | Iriel: No, Bliz has learned very little from EQ. |
| 01:40.10 | sancus | There's a reason their communities are much much weaker than any other MMORPG for the mostpart. |
| 01:40.11 | Tain | That's not even fair to say at all, sancus. |
| 01:40.27 | Ktron | Regardless, chat clients that let communication with ingame and out-of-game players have been done before, and it would be a fairly natural addition |
| 01:40.36 | Iriel | I think a vast majority of the informed player base would disagree with you sancus. |
| 01:40.41 | sancus | ??? |
| 01:40.46 | Iriel | Ktron: And it would break the sandbox. |
| 01:41.00 | Tain | You can have an opinion that they didn't learn "enough" of what you think they should have, but to say that they learned nothing is simply untrue. |
| 01:41.08 | sancus | I've never met a single person who played EQ that would say WoW's communities are anywhere near as strong as EQ's. |
| 01:41.08 | Ktron | Iriel; I think I missed the sandbox analogy the first time |
| 01:41.20 | Tain | sancus, you can't compare apples to oranges. |
| 01:41.32 | Iriel | The game, and the user community are entirely different |
| 01:41.32 | sancus | Good thing I'm not? WoW and EQ are the same kind of game |
| 01:41.38 | sancus | no they arent |
| 01:41.47 | sancus | The community is a response to the game |
| 01:41.55 | Ktron | I know people who moved from EQ to WoW with the release of WoW, and have never looked back and thought ____ was better |
| 01:41.55 | Iriel | Just because WoW General is full of idiots with a distorted sense of entitlement doesn't say anything about the game. |
| 01:41.57 | Tain | EQ had a forced community. You had no other games, you had no choice but to group. You were forced into socialising with peopoe. |
| 01:42.01 | sancus | yes it does |
| 01:42.09 | Tain | The community is an extension of the game, not a response to it. |
| 01:42.11 | sancus | It shows that WoW appeals strongly to idiots. |
| 01:42.14 | Iriel | Well, that's your opinion |
| 01:42.16 | sancus | And rightly so, because it's a very simple, easy game. |
| 01:42.20 | Iriel | The wow FORUMS appeal to idiots |
| 01:42.25 | sancus | No, the game does. |
| 01:42.26 | Iriel | Most of the people I play with dont go near the forums |
| 01:42.33 | Tain | All games appeal to idiots. |
| 01:42.33 | sancus | I didn't say that WoW appeals ONLY to idiots. |
| 01:42.35 | Ktron | sancus; WoW appealled to a wider audience of people than EQ did |
| 01:42.46 | Tain | And intelligent people, and everyone in-between. |
| 01:42.46 | Codayus | Hmm, yeah, I think the key is that I don't see the General forum as being equal to the WoW community. :-) |
| 01:42.49 | Iriel | To be honest, I stopped reading general too a few weeks back. |
| 01:42.58 | Ktron | sancus; WoW has all the stable players of EQ, and a lot more |
| 01:43.01 | sancus | Ktron: Yes, it did, hence why the most larger portion of idiots. |
| 01:43.05 | sancus | er much |
| 01:43.07 | Tain | I stopped reading general... about the time I signed up for a WoW account. |
| 01:43.19 | Cairenn | I haven't read the general forum in ... months ... |
| 01:43.24 | sancus | Ktron: That's arguable. |
| 01:43.25 | Cairenn | MANY months |
| 01:43.29 | AnduinLothar | what's the command to see what instances your flagged for? |
| 01:43.35 | Iriel | The internet is more full of crap now than it was when I started using it, by that process (general exposure) then sure there will be an argued decline in the 'quality of user' |
| 01:43.37 | Codayus | So, when you say that WoW has a weak community compared to EQ, I think you really mean that the general forum is retarded. |
| 01:43.40 | Shadowd | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.42 | Tain | Hi my name is Tain and I'm a recovering-General-forum-reader. |
| 01:43.47 | sancus | Every raid guild I've spoken with has noted that member turnover is much higher in WoW than in any game they played previously including EQ. |
| 01:43.55 | Shadowd | flagged = saved to I'm assuming? |
| 01:43.58 | AnduinLothar | what if ur not in a raid? |
| 01:44.23 | Shadowd | It should still work |
| 01:44.30 | Tain | sancus: that's simply not a true statement either. EQ's "high end" guild turnover was absolutely obscene and has been the last couple of years. |
| 01:44.33 | AnduinLothar | says im not in a raid grp |
| 01:44.35 | Codayus | sancus: DPS turnover tends to be very low in my experience. Healer turnover is...high. But most games have a problem with that. |
| 01:44.39 | Tain | Sure if you want to go back to the first 2 years of EQ you could make the argument. |
| 01:44.48 | Shadowd | You sure? It says you aren't saved into any instances for me. |
| 01:45.08 | AnduinLothar | nope.. just says I'm not in a raid grp |
| 01:45.17 | Ktron | sancus; WoW isn't EQ... EQ was for mostly closet, no-real-life gamers... WoW is for everyone, so there's a lot more players who don't do that... Naturally, you'll have more characters, more characters come and go, But do the people who play WoW more causually make WoW worse? I don't think so. |
| 01:45.20 | Violentnight-shi | but more importantly... does anyone know the IRC command to boot a dead nick? |
| 01:45.22 | sancus | Codayus: We have high turnover in all areas, actually, our healers are the most stable group. |
| 01:45.26 | sancus | Ktron: lol |
| 01:45.40 | Codayus | Overall turnover in WoW has been *extremely* low in my guild, but I know we're atypical. But even talking to others, turnover doesn't seem bad. |
| 01:45.44 | Ktron | sancus; obviously I'm exaggerating to make a point. |
| 01:45.54 | sancus | WoW is "for everyone" because it's easy and simple. |
| 01:46.01 | Depherios | usually it's /nickserv ghost |
| 01:46.09 | AnduinLothar | when does zg reset now? |
| 01:46.14 | AnduinLothar | sundays? |
| 01:46.28 | Ktron | sancus; and accessible, no argument there... Are you suggesting WoW should be more complicated? |
| 01:46.30 | Codayus | AnduinLothar: Rolling restarts. No fixed time. |
| 01:46.40 | Shadowd | Though ZG is unchanged, it's just 3 days from when you kill a boss. |
| 01:46.41 | AnduinLothar | did they reset last night? |
| 01:46.48 | AnduinLothar | rly? |
| 01:46.56 | sancus | Ktron: I'm suggesting that easy and simple games attract a much higher percentage of stupid people and that complex, deep games do not. |
| 01:46.57 | Ktron | AnduinLothar; yep |
| 01:47.10 | sancus | GIven that the vast majority of people are stupid, obviously the former game is going to have a much wider appeal to begin with |
| 01:47.33 | Tain | It's an interesting view though, that WoW is simpler than EQ. Especially since almost every encounter in EQ came down to the same formula. |
| 01:47.39 | Violentnight-shi | thanks, Depherios.. now if only I had had the foresight to register the nick |
| 01:47.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-67-160-147-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:47.51 | AnduinLothar | what's the wow page with the reset calendar? |
| 01:47.56 | Codayus | Hmm, some aspects of WoW are pretty simple. Some are...not. <shrug> |
| 01:47.57 | Ktron | sancus; I don't think that it is in WoW's interest to be more complex or reduce its audience... WoW if anything learned from EQ that they need to make their game more accessible |
| 01:47.59 | sancus | Well I don't think WoW is significantly simpler than EQ, though I didn't play it much. |
| 01:48.07 | sancus | The main difference is EQ required people to work together, and WoW doesn't |
| 01:48.16 | Tain | heh wait, which didn't you play much? |
| 01:48.17 | sancus | until you reach 60, then suddenly there's nothing to do BUT work together. |
| 01:48.19 | Codayus | sancus: ...it doesn't? |
| 01:48.26 | sancus | nope |
| 01:48.28 | Tain | Because really that statement isn't true. |
| 01:48.31 | sancus | Yes it is |
| 01:48.43 | Codayus | I dunno, I think I've got to work together a wee bit in ZG. :-P |
| 01:48.46 | Ktron | sancus; There's plenty of opportunity to work together, it might not be forced, but it is HEAVILY encouraged as you level |
| 01:48.50 | sancus | You can trivially max out in WoW without ever speaking to another person |
| 01:48.51 | Violentnight-shi | sancus: WoW gives people the opportunity for people to work together... if it forced a player to work with others, then it would reduce the player base by elimiting those players that prefer to play alone |
| 01:48.53 | sancus | could never do that in EQ |
| 01:48.53 | Shadowd | And soon AQ20 |
| 01:49.02 | Violentnight-shi | thereby eliminating a large chunk of potential customers and profit |
| 01:49.15 | Tain | sancus: It depends on what you mean by max out |
| 01:49.17 | sancus | Ktron: it is so not encouraged, the fastest levelling is solo |
| 01:49.18 | Codayus | sancus: If by "max out" you mean reach lvl 60, that's true, but meaningless. |
| 01:49.27 | sancus | how so |
| 01:49.29 | Tain | if you mean level to level 60, then yes you could do that in EQ solo. |
| 01:49.39 | Cairenn | Violentnight - I can kick your nick, but that won't actually log it out, sorry |
| 01:49.40 | AnduinLothar | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/calendar/ |
| 01:49.40 | Tain | It was a lot harder. |
| 01:49.43 | Ktron | sancus; the best gear, and the best content is all in _group only_ areas though |
| 01:49.51 | AnduinLothar | ZG reset schedule is set |
| 01:50.02 | Violentnight-shi | yeah I know, Cairenn--thanks for the thought anyhow ^_^ |
| 01:50.04 | sancus | Ktron: Sure, so? |
| 01:50.26 | Tain | sancus: You're the one making the argument, please try to explain it instead of just saying "So?" |
| 01:50.28 | sancus | Most of WoW's playerbase doesnt really care about having the best stuff, they just care about being entertained for the 1 hour per week they play |
| 01:50.28 | Violentnight-shi | Cairenn: wanna kick sancus instead? ^_^ |
| 01:50.29 | Codayus | So, in WoW, you are *forced* to work together in order to progress once you're a small fraction of the way into the game. |
| 01:50.39 | sancus | heh |
| 01:50.39 | Ktron | sancus; If you say 'you must work together to access the best parts of this game' that's definitely encouraging people to work together |
| 01:50.43 | sancus | That's the problem, you see |
| 01:50.47 | Cairenn | Violentnight: why would I want to do that? |
| 01:50.53 | sancus | 1-60 isn't a small fraction of the game, it is 95% of the game |
| 01:51.00 | Tain | In which game? |
| 01:51.03 | sancus | WoW |
| 01:51.08 | Codayus | sancus: Okay, see, I'm playing WoW. Which game are you playing? :-P |
| 01:51.13 | Iriel | sancus : Which time? 1-60 with one character? |
| 01:51.13 | Shadowd | I |
| 01:51.16 | Shadowd | bah |
| 01:51.27 | Tain | See 1-60 is as much of the game as you want it to be. |
| 01:51.31 | Violentnight-shi | Cairenn: 'cause I have such a hard time avoiding an argument, but we could argue all day long and never get anywhere on this subject |
| 01:51.56 | Ktron | sancus; Regardless, the best parts, the parts of the game they work at the most are all group events whether instances or elite quests or whatever it is.... To get to the best content, you must group |
| 01:52.20 | Ktron | ~lart Violentnight-shi |
| 01:52.25 | sancus | um |
| 01:52.32 | Cairenn | the conversation is being held to a reasonable level, there is no reason for me to interfer |
| 01:53.05 | Violentnight-shi | thanks, Ktron :P |
| 01:53.39 | sancus | Ktron: It might shock you to learn this, but the amount of effort spent on raid instances and the rest of the post-60 game is a tiny fraction of the time spent on the rest of the game |
| 01:53.40 | Violentnight-shi | woohoo |
| 01:54.09 | Ktron | sancus; I know, I have zero level 60's... Regardless, it's where the time is invested, its what WoW encourages |
| 01:54.23 | Tain | sancus, there's no need to be facetious. The fact is it depends entirely on the player how much time and effort is spent on which content. |
| 01:54.30 | sancus | sure |
| 01:54.37 | sancus | but spending a lot of time on certain content does not imply that it's the majority of the game |
| 01:54.47 | Tain | It does for those players. |
| 01:55.00 | Ktron | sancus; no, but spending more time on certain content implies that's going to be better content than what they spent less time on |
| 01:55.02 | Tain | And if that's what they enjoy doing then they're doing things right. |
| 01:55.12 | sancus | Ktron: No it doesn't |
| 01:55.20 | sancus | The *more* time you spend on a certain bit of content, the worse it is, generally. |
| 01:55.23 | Ktron | sancus; and that's my point-- WoW might not require you to group, but they try to make grouping much more worth it. |
| 01:55.37 | Tain | More time on content means it's worse? I don't follow. |
| 01:55.40 | Codayus | It's where everyone ends up if they stick to it long enough. That's why its called endgame. <shrug> Just because not all players end up there doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't represent the bulk of the content (at least in terms of hours invested). |
| 01:55.43 | sancus | Because the mechanics used to cause people to spend a lot of time on that content are simple carrot-and-stick mechanisms, they're not about involving the player. |
| 01:55.44 | Ktron | sancus; I mean the more time Blizzard spends making it, not the more time users spend on it. |
| 01:55.58 | sancus | Ktron: Blizzard spend MUCH more time on the 1-60 game than the raid game(and it shows) |
| 01:56.01 | Tain | Carrot and stick is in place from day 1. |
| 01:56.03 | sancus | like we're talking 10:1 here at least |
| 01:56.14 | Codayus | I look at my /played stats, and think about the % of time where I was *forced* to group, and I was forced to group for WAY WAY more than half. |
| 01:56.16 | Ktron | sancus; but Blizzard spends much more time on instances and elite quests |
| 01:56.21 | Ktron | sancus; than normal mobs. |
| 01:56.24 | sancus | Now? Of course they do |
| 01:56.28 | sancus | But their dev team is a fraction of the size |
| 01:56.38 | sancus | the current dev team could work for 10 years and never match the amount of time spent on the original game |
| 01:56.45 | Violentnight | sancus: have you ever worked, in any way, on developing a game? |
| 01:56.49 | Tain | Ok that's just throwing out random numbers now. |
| 01:56.55 | sancus | not really |
| 01:57.24 | Cairenn | hi, remember, no personal attacks, please and thank you - everyone is entitled to their opinioin |
| 01:57.31 | Ktron | sancus; but the original game included a lot of backend and problem solving, and the developing of the original quest chains to lead to instances and elite quests... I dare you to suggest that Westfall's zenith isn't the deadmines |
| 01:57.41 | Codayus | I know a little bit about the dev process of wow. And the numbers your throwing off contradict everything I know. So...sorry, I don't buy that. But it doesn't matter how much dev time was spent on what part of the game... |
| 01:57.46 | Ktron | sancus; or likewise for most areas |
| 01:57.51 | Tain | Unless you know the number of people on the original dev team, the number of people on the current dev team, and each on every one of their skill levels and abilities, then it's throwing out random numbers. |
| 01:58.09 | Ktron | Actually, psuedo-random... |
| 01:58.12 | sancus | Sure, but the reason the devs spend all their time on raid instances right now is simply because there was tons of effort spent on the non-raid parts of the game, and they know that, and they know they shipped with no endgame whatsoever |
| 01:58.12 | Violentnight | Cairenn: I'm not trying to attack him... really, I'm trying hard to keep my mouth shut ^_^ I was just curious |
| 01:58.46 | Codayus | You're trying to say that WoW doesn't force people to group because most of them quit or give up before they reach that point. If anything, that's an argument that WoW *does* force people to group, not that it doesn't. :-) |
| 01:58.55 | sancus | No? |
| 01:59.06 | Tain | ~vizzini |
| 01:59.07 | purl | Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Morons! |
| 01:59.11 | sancus | I'm saying a lot haven't reached that point yet, and if they do, they go back to level 1 with another character. |
| 01:59.35 | Ktron | sancus; I'm not arguing over endgame alone, I'm arguing about the parts of games that require groups versus the parts that don't, ie elite quests, all of the isntances, most elite mobs, and so on on one side and the plain bit on the other side |
| 01:59.45 | Codayus | Read the general forum if you can stand it - it's full of people complaining that endgame is all about raids - ie, being forced to work together. That's why 1.10 is adding a tiny bit more advancement that can be done solo. |
| 01:59.55 | sancus | well of course they're complaining about it, because it's true heh |
| 01:59.58 | Tain | Your opinions are perfectly valid sancus, they're just based on a very small sampling of your interaction with players. |
| 02:00.11 | Codayus | ... |
| 02:00.36 | Codayus | What is your point then? That WoW does force people to group or that it doesn't? |
| 02:00.40 | sancus | But you're confusing "the endgame" with "the majority of the game" |
| 02:00.43 | sancus | the endgame is a small part of the game |
| 02:00.50 | Tain | That's an opinion. |
| 02:00.51 | Codayus | sancus: My /played says your wrong. |
| 02:01.01 | sancus | ??? |
| 02:01.05 | Tain | It's a small part of the "physical" game. |
| 02:01.13 | Codayus | I've spent way more time in "endgame" than lvling. |
| 02:01.31 | Tain | It doesn't mean it's a small part of the actual content pepole spend the most time in. |
| 02:01.37 | Ktron | sancus; I'd be curious to see the ratio of elite quests and raid quests to regular 'soloable' quests... I bet the ratio is at least 1:5, but probably closer to 1:3 if you don't count some of the 'talk to this person in the same village' quests. |
| 02:01.45 | sancus | Just because you spend a lot of time on it doesn't mean it's the majority of the game. If I said "kill this dog to get 100,000 points" and that's the ONLY thing you could do at 60, you might spend 1000 hours on it where you spent 250 hours getting to 60, but it wouldn't make it the majority of the game |
| 02:01.54 | Tain | Yes it does mean that, sancus. It means that exactly. |
| 02:02.05 | sancus | Nope |
| 02:02.17 | sancus | The majority of the game is that which the devs spent the most time building unique content for. |
| 02:02.25 | Codayus | sancus: I don't think the words you use mean quite what you think they mean. |
| 02:02.29 | Ktron | sancus; The majority of the game is what players spend hte majority of the time doing. |
| 02:02.31 | Tain | Yes, it does. If I play a game and play hundreds of hours in "end game" then that's the majority of the game to me. |
| 02:02.33 | Codayus | Dev time spent is totally meaningless. |
| 02:02.37 | sancus | no it isn't |
| 02:03.01 | Ktron | sancus; even if you talk about dev time, the dev time that goes into elite quests, elite mobs and instances is definitely higher than the regular content. |
| 02:03.19 | sancus | per quest sure? overall, dont think so |
| 02:03.23 | Tain | People play WoW and have choices of what they want to participate in. If they choose to spend most of their time in a specific area then that is the game for them. |
| 02:03.28 | sancus | And anyway, a lot of the elite quests are easily soloable |
| 02:03.53 | Tain | Some elite quests are soloable by some classes. |
| 02:03.56 | Violentnight | sancus: you'd have to be such a high level that you'd get little or no experience for the kills |
| 02:03.59 | sancus | huh? |
| 02:04.01 | sancus | no, dont be silly |
| 02:04.04 | Ktron | sancus; They fashion entire new areas that are effectively 'groups only' (instances) AND they use the general zones for elite quests... most quest chains end in elite quests... need I go on? |
| 02:04.23 | Ktron | sancus; that's like saying the deadmines is meant to be soloed. |
| 02:04.25 | sancus | I've soloed same-level elite quests on multiple classes heh, probably the only ones who cant are priests |
| 02:04.43 | sancus | Nah not really, elite quests usually involving killing a handful or even one elite mob whereas an instance is full of them |
| 02:04.49 | Codayus | The game is defined by the players. If the Dev's spend 1k hours working on Felwood, and nobody goes there, then it doesn't really matter when we're trying to work out what the game expeirence is like, and how much content there is. |
| 02:04.51 | Tain | Again sancus, you're basing opinions on limited experience. |
| 02:04.55 | Ktron | sancus; sometimes you can, but that's not what you are 'supposed' to do, that's not what the majority of players do |
| 02:05.29 | Codayus | MC, like it or not, is a BIG chunk of the content. Despite the fact that it clearly didn't take much dev time. That's a reason why it's bad content, but like it or not, if you stick with your char development, you'll spend a LONG time in MC. |
| 02:05.29 | Tain | "I solo'd this elite quest." does not translate into, "a lot of elite quests are easily soloable." |
| 02:05.38 | Ktron | sancus; the majority of players identify (elite) and (raid) and (instance) as meaning, I should find a group for this |
| 02:05.46 | sancus | Codayus: Not really, if killing a dog is the entire endgame, then it just means players are spending an obscene amount of time on a tiny part of the game, doesn't mean that it somehow becomes the majority of the game |
| 02:06.17 | Ktron | sancus; Probably the best measure would be actual 'volume' or 'size' in some sense of content, which is irrelevant to devs and players |
| 02:06.36 | sancus | Yeah I can agree with that, the problem is that you can take a tiny, crappy bit of content |
| 02:06.48 | sancus | put a mechanic in place that says "YOU MUST REPEAT THIS" and then call it a major part of the game |
| 02:06.50 | sancus | thats just silly |
| 02:07.05 | Ktron | sancus; But I think its clear that group events are at least 20%--33% of the world volume of content. |
| 02:07.14 | Tain | It may be, but if that's what people want to do, and if they're happily paying their money for it, then I don't see the problem. |
| 02:07.18 | Codayus | sancus: That sentence isn't even internally coherent. <shrug> If killing the dog, say, forces people to group, then if people are killing the dog, then they're being forced to group. We can complain that it's silly, but it doesn't change that it's how it works. |
| 02:07.25 | Ktron | sancus; and Ignoring that much content is possible, but not what is intended or generally practiced. |
| 02:07.27 | sancus | Tain: Well most people don't happily do it |
| 02:07.57 | Tain | Just because someone spends more time doing Molten Core and skipped out on the level 5 quest given out in Darnassus doesn't mean they're not playing the game. |
| 02:07.58 | sancus | Codayus: So what? It still doesn't mean the game mostly forces grouping |
| 02:08.04 | Tain | sancus: you can't speak for most people. |
| 02:08.12 | sancus | sure I can |
| 02:08.25 | Ktron | sancus; remember you're arguing that WoW doesn't encourage players to group. |
| 02:08.36 | sancus | No I didn't say that |
| 02:08.45 | sancus | I said it doesn't force them to group, it does encourage them to group in some part of the game |
| 02:08.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:08.53 | Codayus | The "full" life of a character starts in Goldshire, or wherever, and ends in AQ40, or whatever. Some of these areas are richly drawn, with lots of fun quests. Some are pretty sparse caves full of lava and boring mobs. The *only* meaningful way to work out which area of this life is "larger" is to look at time spent by the player during the course of the "life". |
| 02:08.57 | sancus | But most of it not |
| 02:09.16 | sancus | There's a reason that when you hit 60, most players are staggered by the concept of molten core and blackwing lair and back away from it and hate it |
| 02:09.29 | Ktron | sancus; So, you're arguing that wow, for the most part, doesn't encourage players to group. |
| 02:09.34 | Tain | Again, i'm not sure where you're coming up with the "most people" idea. |
| 02:09.39 | Codayus | And for the character going from newbie zone to full AQ sets, they'll spend most of their time in raid dungeons. Being bored, possibly. :-P |
| 02:10.05 | sancus | Tain: Take a look at the number of people who have succesfully completed those raid instances, per server, and the number of people who can't stand raiding in general. There are much more of the latter than the former. |
| 02:10.18 | Ktron | sancus; I don't do raids-- a LOT of people don't do raids, but I think that's mostly a time commitment and scale issue. It's not "OMG A GROUP??" it's "OMG I have to coordinate 8 times as many people as before??" |
| 02:10.29 | Cairenn | I do believe his original statement was to the effect that (until the end game) WoW doesn't "force" grouping to the extent that other games (ala EQ) did |
| 02:10.32 | Tain | I have no way of obtaining those number which is why I don't know where you're getting them. |
| 02:10.45 | sancus | why dont you |
| 02:10.47 | Tain | Some people get to level 60 and don't want to do Molten Core. |
| 02:10.47 | Cairenn | and quite frankly, I have to agree with him, if I am recalling that correctly |
| 02:11.07 | sancus | Tigole's talked about how many people raid and gave specific numbers at blizzcon. |
| 02:11.20 | Codayus | Cairenn: Since that's basically my point, I'd agree too. I recall it as being that WoW never forced you to group, which is obviously wrong in my view. :-) |
| 02:11.25 | sancus | Mostly to counter statements that only "1%" of people raid, it's higher than that, but it is definitely a minority. |
| 02:11.26 | Ktron | I think we acknowledged that WoW doesn't force players to group, but I think WoW almost always encourages players to group through out the game |
| 02:11.34 | Tain | If that's the case then it would explain why I don't have those numbers, I didn't go to Blizzcon. |
| 02:11.45 | sancus | he posted them in the raid and dungeons forum though, at least partially |
| 02:11.54 | sancus | and anyway |
| 02:11.59 | Codayus | sancus: If memory serves, he was giving the % of the player base which was in MC at any given moment. Not, say, the % which visited it in any given month. Thus, the numbers aren't applicable. |
| 02:12.22 | sancus | He gave a bunch of different numbers |
| 02:12.33 | sancus | all of which imply that a minority raid, but a significant minority |
| 02:12.37 | Tain | I'm still not sure what point you were trying to make though, you seem to wander between many of them. Are we on forced grouping again? |
| 02:12.44 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2320 - find it in there, it's there somewhere |
| 02:13.20 | Ktron | Regardless, I don't think players make it to 60 and don't raid because they don't like grouping, I think they don't raid because finding 8 times the number of players who won't quit or leave, have the hours to burn and are roughly the right classes is much harder than finding just the five they're used to for most instances |
| 02:13.21 | Cairenn | (re Tigole's numbers) |
| 02:13.51 | Codayus | sancus: Okay. So why don't more people raid? You see to be arguing that it's because they're forced to group? But also that this proves people aren't forced to group? I'm becoming more confused about what point your trying to make as time goes on. |
| 02:14.06 | Tain | Of course if we want to enter into the realm of personal opinion I'll suggest that the only reason they hired Tigole and Furor (Kartik/Kalaran) was to stop them from complaining about the game. :) |
| 02:14.07 | sancus | The point I'm making is that most of WoW doesn't force you to group, it casually encourages you to do so when you feel like it, and thus when faced with absolute, specific forced grouping (and grouping in much larger numbers), people balk. |
| 02:14.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (i=L@cpe-72-225-175-197.si.res.rr.com) |
| 02:14.22 | sancus | And people don't know how to play, either. |
| 02:14.25 | Cairenn | Tain: please don't go there :p |
| 02:14.33 | sancus | Tain: heh |
| 02:14.38 | sancus | Tain: Well that's not the case |
| 02:14.40 | Tain | sancus: People don't know how to play will be applied to any game. |
| 02:14.40 | sancus | It might be in Furor's case |
| 02:14.41 | Ktron | sancus; A good number to have would be how many people don't do instances versus the number of people do, ignoring whether it's MC or BWL or AQ or Deadmines or Mauradon or ZF or whichever. |
| 02:14.51 | sancus | But you don't make a "hire to shut someone up" your lead designer, and that's Tigole's current position. |
| 02:15.11 | sancus | Furor however has remained a minor quest designer. |
| 02:15.14 | sancus | However, he's also not shut up :P |
| 02:15.18 | Tain | I can have my opinions based on whatever reality I decide, the same as you do. |
| 02:15.40 | sancus | Furor doesnt post anymore but I can assure you he is *very* much the loudmouth still =) |
| 02:16.15 | sancus | Tain: I mean, people don't know how to play in a heavy grouping environment when they hit 60 |
| 02:16.41 | Tain | sancus: I agree some people (maybe even many, I just won't assume) don't. |
| 02:16.50 | AnduinLothar | been 60 for a year.. i cant remember that far back |
| 02:16.53 | Tain | However that applies to every mmorpg out there that I have played. |
| 02:17.06 | Ktron | It'd be fun to see the percentage of people who go into an instance or battleground at least once in a week out of the total active player base for that week. |
| 02:17.06 | Codayus | Hmm, okay, my disagreement with your point is - I totally disagree that people stop raiding because they don't like grouping. |
| 02:17.17 | sancus | Hmm? |
| 02:17.25 | AnduinLothar | i hate FINDING a grp |
| 02:17.26 | sancus | No, people tend not to *start* raiding because they don't like grouping |
| 02:17.27 | Tain | I would suggest that people stop raiding because they don't like 40 man raids. |
| 02:17.31 | AnduinLothar | the grps thenselves are fine |
| 02:17.33 | Codayus | I think the bulk of it is because they find MC boring, their guild isn't large enough, their schedule doesn't allow large blocks of playtime, or they just enjoy other things more. |
| 02:17.37 | sancus | They rarely start and then stop because they hate grouping |
| 02:17.42 | sancus | No one is even going to set foot in MC if they hate grouping |
| 02:17.46 | Codayus | s/stop/don't start/ |
| 02:17.59 | Tain | Well, a 5 man group doesn't have anything in common with a 40 man MC raid. |
| 02:18.06 | sancus | Onyxia doesn't require large blocks of playtime. |
| 02:18.26 | Ktron | heh, if anything, WoW should have lower level 10 and 20 man instances |
| 02:18.48 | Ktron | That way people would have a chance to learn what running a 40 man is like before they get there |
| 02:18.52 | sancus | Ktron: yea probably, ZG was "sorta kinda" intended to be that |
| 02:18.54 | Tain | I don't know about overall, but I personally like 5 man groups the best. |
| 02:19.00 | Ktron | sancus; so is AQ20 |
| 02:19.04 | sancus | yeah |
| 02:19.12 | sancus | the only problem is those instances are probably too difficult to serve that purpose |
| 02:19.13 | Ktron | sancus; But I mean like a level 40 10-20 man instance |
| 02:19.21 | Codayus | If you're guild just dinged 60, Onyxia requires quite a lot of time. :-P |
| 02:19.23 | sancus | oh, and the rewards suck |
| 02:19.27 | sancus | Codayus: Not really |
| 02:19.37 | sancus | You can learn Onyxia by spending an hour or two every couple nights |
| 02:20.23 | Codayus | 40 inexperienced people in greens killing Onyxia? There's a signficant time investment with little payoff to get to the point where you *can* kill Ony. |
| 02:20.24 | kremonte | having 40 people daily? |
| 02:20.29 | sancus | Actually at the current gear level you could probably kill onyxia with 20 after maybe 20 hours of learning time spread over 4 weeks |
| 02:20.34 | Codayus | A lot of guilds couldn't do that if they wanted to. |
| 02:20.40 | Ktron | side note: I wonder if they'll allow test realm access to Naxaramas before its ingame... after all, that kind of killed AQ's play time |
| 02:20.59 | sancus | Ktron: What do you mean? They've stated that all future instances will be on the Test Realm, period. |
| 02:20.59 | Codayus | A lot of other players don't see gear as ebing a compelling reward. They may like grouping, they just can't get their minds around working for gear and not XP. |
| 02:21.09 | Ktron | sancus; really? bleh |
| 02:21.16 | sancus | it didnt kill AQ's play time anyway |
| 02:21.23 | sancus | AQ being retardedly easy(deliberately so) killed it |
| 02:21.37 | Ktron | sancus; people were on the second to last boss in AQ40 in like 2 days |
| 02:21.39 | Tain | keep in mind sancus you already said that only 1% of people spend time raiding, so most people getting up to that point aren't going to have any equipment once they get there to try. |
| 02:21.40 | sancus | yea |
| 02:21.42 | sancus | because its EASY |
| 02:21.47 | Ktron | sancus; and it's supposed to be harder than B WL |
| 02:21.50 | sancus | no it isnt |
| 02:22.02 | kremonte | yet noone knows how to do more than 3% damage to C'thun :) |
| 02:22.04 | Ktron | Its supposed to end harder, and start easier |
| 02:22.09 | sancus | right |
| 02:22.13 | sancus | _Specifically_ |
| 02:22.16 | sancus | it's supposed to be easier until the twin emps |
| 02:22.25 | sancus | and then the twin emps are equal |
| 02:22.29 | sancus | and c'thun is harder |
| 02:22.30 | Ktron | ie... if you end harder, to beat it will be harder, ie the instance is harder |
| 02:22.45 | sancus | no one has killed c'thun yet |
| 02:22.48 | sancus | hell |
| 02:22.49 | AnduinLothar | heh, we have 6 pallies so i'm dpsing in ZG |
| 02:22.51 | sancus | no one has killed _ouro_ yet |
| 02:23.00 | Ktron | ouro is what, second to last? |
| 02:23.03 | sancus | yes |
| 02:23.11 | Ktron | yeah, but they were at ouro in like 2 days |
| 02:23.12 | Tain | I solod him. |
| 02:23.18 | sancus | sure why shouldn't they be |
| 02:23.24 | sancus | everything before that is easier than bwl except twin emps |
| 02:23.26 | sancus | which is only equal |
| 02:23.34 | sancus | and only like two guilds have even beaten twin emps |
| 02:23.54 | Ktron | Raids were happy to spend like 2-4 weeks learning each boss of BWL... It's too bad that they didn't offer that kind of difficulty/repeatability in AQ40 |
| 02:23.59 | sancus | Oh and they're skipping a boss which is supposedly "easier than BWL", I should add |
| 02:24.12 | Ktron | And I think the fact that they could try it before release hurt |
| 02:24.30 | sancus | nah, most guilds didnt try it before release |
| 02:24.32 | sancus | ours didnt |
| 02:24.40 | sancus | it's HARD to motivate people to show up for raids where they'll get nothing on their mains |
| 02:25.06 | sancus | Only like 4 or 5 guilds got deep into AQ40 on Test |
| 02:25.11 | Ktron | Anyway, I can't spend anymore time in here, real life beckons... sancus, all 5 of the major alliance guilds that exist on Zul'jin did |
| 02:25.16 | sancus | You also have to remember that it was changing constantly while on Test, there were like 5 builds |
| 02:25.24 | Ktron | sancus; they can't be out of the normal |
| 02:25.38 | Ktron | Regardless, Real Life calls |
| 02:25.40 | sancus | rofl! |
| 02:25.55 | sancus | oh, gee, the 3rd server to complete war efforts 'cant be out of the normal' |
| 02:26.04 | Ktron|afk | ~lart sancus |
| 02:26.43 | sancus | purl: Gonna have to try harder than that, shouldn't you be busy cutting your own head off? |
| 02:26.57 | AnduinLothar | ouch.. |
| 02:27.03 | Violentnight | don't disrespect the bot! |
| 02:27.15 | sancus | lol |
| 02:27.44 | Tain | Well it was a fun distraction during dinner, but no more troll feeding for me. Going to do some coding. |
| 02:28.09 | Codayus | Hmm, I found Tigole's stats, finally. |
| 02:29.08 | *** part/#wowi-lounge fatbrain (i=fatbrain@85.8.3.120) |
| 02:29.22 | Cairenn | Tain: ... |
| 02:37.22 | AnduinLothar | it's an interesting challenge to play in a grp that's vent dependant when i can't get on vent.. |
| 02:38.03 | sancus | ask someone to /tell you instructions given on vent or something |
| 02:38.32 | AnduinLothar | and i find it anal to not switch to speakx codec when it sounds better and allows wider access.. |
| 02:39.31 | AnduinLothar | it's like sure, we'll make a mac client, but it only works on severs using the new and improved codec... It's free to upgrade but I'm still being excluded cause no one will switch |
| 02:40.05 | AnduinLothar | takes like 1 min to switch the codec and reboot the server.. yet no one will |
| 02:42.11 | sancus | find another guild? I just avoid using vent at all |
| 02:43.26 | sancus | That does seem kinda lame though, dont see why they wouldnt |
| 02:44.56 | AnduinLothar | none of the good guilds want me for some unknown reason other than th eoverpopulation of pallies |
| 02:45.11 | Violentnight | AnduinLothar: You're not American, are you? |
| 02:45.18 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 02:45.25 | sancus | Overpopulation is the primary reason we dont recruit, so.. |
| 02:45.28 | Violentnight | ya you are or ya you aren't? lol |
| 02:46.59 | AnduinLothar | i am american |
| 02:47.36 | Violentnight | hrmm... well then you're odd =P You need to understand the concept of procrastination ^_^ |
| 02:47.50 | AnduinLothar | why do you think i'm playing wow |
| 02:49.18 | Violentnight | hehe |
| 02:50.12 | Shadowd | The trick is to apply right when a new raid instance comes out |
| 03:32.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:33.44 | Iriel | Rest in peace LaunchURL, we never needed you anyway. |
| 03:34.00 | AnduinLothar | mmm, pug ZG fun stuff |
| 03:34.23 | AnduinLothar | where in the world did they get the idea to sheep 3 snake adds continuously while killing the boss.... O.o |
| 03:34.50 | Cairenn | but is it working? |
| 03:34.55 | AnduinLothar | the stupidist thing i've ever heard... lets incapacitate 3 fully mana'd mages.. |
| 03:35.09 | AnduinLothar | no... got him to 1%... |
| 03:35.22 | Shadowd | don't think i've ever heard that tatic before |
| 03:35.56 | AnduinLothar | it's the stupidist thing ever... it might work with a pro guild and make the take down faster.. but with noobs you just cant do damage fast enough |
| 03:36.30 | sancus | w2f |
| 03:36.31 | Shadowd | Killed him with 15 in 3 attempts with my PVP group a while back, it's not really that hard to just kill them first. |
| 03:36.46 | sancus | thats hilarious :P |
| 03:36.56 | AnduinLothar | no esp when u can sheep 3 at a time and kill one at a time.. |
| 03:37.01 | Shadowd | Yeah |
| 03:37.13 | AnduinLothar | DUMB! |
| 03:37.13 | Violentnight | I hate polymorph |
| 03:37.21 | sancus | theres no reason for a pro guild to do that either |
| 03:37.27 | sancus | since a pro guild can kill the snakes in less than 30 seconds |
| 03:37.34 | AnduinLothar | lol ya |
| 03:37.34 | sancus | why even bother |
| 03:37.36 | Shadowd | A pro guild could actually get away with it though |
| 03:37.42 | sancus | probably |
| 03:37.59 | sancus | can get away with 3-manning ubrs too |
| 03:37.59 | AnduinLothar | i'd actually be funny... have 5 mages and sheep all the adds |
| 03:38.06 | sancus | doesnt mean that you do it regularly :P |
| 03:38.15 | Shadowd | 5? |
| 03:38.23 | Shadowd | I though it was 4 snakes + boss? |
| 03:38.27 | AnduinLothar | one for doing some magey damage :) |
| 03:38.32 | Shadowd | Ahh |
| 03:39.22 | sancus | violentnight: why do you hate polymorph? :P |
| 03:39.33 | AnduinLothar | it makes people stupid |
| 03:39.38 | Violentnight | I need to create a table structure that can hold a reference to every object in the UI, maintain the parent/child order, and allow them to be sorted so that they can be listed in a treeview-type structure. Any ideas? |
| 03:39.41 | Shadowd | Polymorph can die <_< |
| 03:40.00 | Shadowd | Well not die, but it's annoying! |
| 03:40.30 | sancus | nah, epics make people stupid |
| 03:40.32 | AnduinLothar | lol... got rezzed.. lag made me rez where i was walkign as a ghost... walk for 30 seconds and then the instance loads |
| 03:40.39 | sancus | polymorph is handy but useless in most raids |
| 03:40.52 | Shadowd | Thats like everything though |
| 03:40.55 | AnduinLothar | it's very usefull for cc in zg |
| 03:41.11 | AnduinLothar | cc makes zg cake |
| 03:41.43 | sancus | its ok |
| 03:41.48 | sancus | it doesnt help on most of the bosses though |
| 03:41.51 | Violentnight | again with the acronyms... yeesh |
| 03:41.59 | Shadowd | crowd control |
| 03:42.12 | Cairenn | cc = crowd control, zg = zg :p |
| 03:42.17 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 03:42.18 | sancus | rofl |
| 03:42.22 | Shadowd | I figured he knew what ZG meant :p |
| 03:42.26 | Iriel | Violentnight : Give me a few and i'll sketch something out. |
| 03:42.30 | Cairenn | as did I :p |
| 03:42.43 | Violentnight | thanks, Iriel ^_^ |
| 03:42.45 | sancus | zg = crappy 20 man for newbs, but nice enchants :P |
| 03:42.48 | Violentnight | and no.. I have no idea what zg means either |
| 03:42.54 | Shadowd | not really sancus |
| 03:42.57 | sancus | zul'gurub |
| 03:42.58 | Codayus | Hmm. |
| 03:42.59 | AnduinLothar | wtf? zg is harder than mc |
| 03:43.08 | Violentnight | I'm only up to level 30 and just started battlegrounds yesterday |
| 03:43.10 | sancus | no its not |
| 03:43.15 | AnduinLothar | hell yes |
| 03:43.17 | Codayus | Naa, mc = free epix for noobs. ZG = fun for skilled guilds. |
| 03:43.36 | AnduinLothar | first 4 bosses are free loot. anything past that is suicide w/o full epics |
| 03:43.42 | Cairenn | oh lord, please don't start again guys :p |
| 03:43.44 | Shadowd | FoTF and Destroyer of World to name two weapons in ZG> |
| 03:43.46 | Codayus | :-) |
| 03:43.58 | Cairenn | go back to talking about coding |
| 03:44.15 | Shadowd | we wern't talking about coding originally though! |
| 03:44.26 | Cairenn | in this channel? yes you were |
| 03:44.36 | Codayus | Awww. |
| 03:44.39 | Shadowd | Well, not 20-30 lines ago i mean |
| 03:44.41 | Violentnight | yes.. coding... I'm ever so slightly more knowledgable of that |
| 03:44.45 | AnduinLothar | cair do i get an "I Win" button soon? |
| 03:44.54 | sancus | lots of guilds clear zg without full epics so thats not true |
| 03:44.57 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 03:45.04 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 03:45.25 | Violentnight | what's an "I Win" button? |
| 03:45.25 | Shadowd | Anyway, I need to make something to replicate WoW outside of WoW, and need step by step details on how to do it :p |
| 03:45.31 | AnduinLothar | i've never heard of any guild clearing zg except ones that had already cleared bwl |
| 03:45.44 | Violentnight | Shadowd: define replicate |
| 03:45.45 | sancus | ... |
| 03:45.47 | Codayus | sancus: My guild has cleared MC, killed Ony, and cleared MC through to and including Baron Geddon. Hardest fight? Thekal by a mile, and we haven't even tried Jin'Do yet. |
| 03:45.55 | Shadowd | Enough that you can't tell the difference? |
| 03:46.09 | Violentnight | so you want to make something that already exists? |
| 03:46.10 | Cairenn | Violentnight: A "Cairenn had a chance to try to break the patcher today and wasn't able to" |
| 03:46.21 | Codayus | Cleared ZG. |
| 03:46.25 | End-crazyhat | Jin'Do and Thekal are the two hardest bosses (imo at least) |
| 03:46.29 | sancus | Codayus: huh? |
| 03:46.39 | sancus | oh the first MC = zg |
| 03:46.40 | Codayus | I meant to say we cleared ZG, killed Ony, etc. |
| 03:46.43 | Shadowd | Dream on Icecrown US PvE Horde killed Hakkar without having cleared BWL, and they're a PvP guild. So it's not like you need to have cleared BWL to clear ZG. |
| 03:46.44 | sancus | ok, so you just proved my point ;) |
| 03:46.44 | Cairenn | oh noes! |
| 03:47.00 | sancus | MC to geddon is reallllllyyy easy |
| 03:47.06 | Codayus | So...we killed Hakkar with maybe 1 epic on average...but...you're still wrong. ZG is hard as hell. The first half of MC is a trivial zerg fest. |
| 03:47.14 | sancus | yes |
| 03:47.16 | Codayus | :-) |
| 03:47.32 | sancus | but domo is quite difficult, and rag is much harder than anything in ZG |
| 03:47.51 | AnduinLothar | rag is cake with full fr |
| 03:48.29 | sancus | what's "full fr" mean |
| 03:48.35 | Tain | I like cake. |
| 03:48.41 | AnduinLothar | i like cake too |
| 03:48.52 | Cairenn | fire resistance |
| 03:48.55 | Codayus | Immaterial. MC is still the free epic zone, and ZG is a nightmare for any guild that isn't very well coordinated. I don't see how you could pug anything except the snake boss. |
| 03:48.59 | sancus | I know it means fire resistance :P |
| 03:49.18 | sancus | I meant what does "full" mean, no one does rag with 300 FR on every raid member so.. |
| 03:49.37 | Codayus | The rewards from ZG really kick in when you kill Hakkar, which noobs will never do. The rewards from MC start when you kill Luci. |
| 03:49.44 | Shadowd | Probably 315 on your MT, and around 175-225 on melee, along with some misc FR on your casters. |
| 03:49.56 | sancus | Codayus: Yeah, but that's also largely because MC is at the end of of its nerf lifetime |
| 03:50.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=kyle@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:50.04 | sancus | whereas ZG is in the middle |
| 03:50.21 | sancus | It hasn't been nerfed down to "let the casuals run amok in here" yet |
| 03:50.33 | Codayus | sancus: Doesn't matter. I play the game as it exists today. ZG isn't z noob zone. It just...isn't. Maybe next patch, maybe never. Not today. |
| 03:50.33 | sancus | theres a bunch of nerfs scheduled for "soon" |
| 03:51.04 | sancus | shrug |
| 03:51.18 | Codayus | And we'll see about the ZG nerfs. Thekal being nerfed will be great; the Arlokk nerf will be somewhat balanced by the green whelp armor nerf. Jin'do will remain insane. And Hakkar is being buffed. |
| 03:51.27 | sancus | Depends on your perspective of newbs, to me, any guild who hasn't killed nefarian yet qualifies for "newb" |
| 03:51.29 | Codayus | So it *might* be a wash in the end. |
| 03:52.10 | sancus | So yeah, being able to clear ZG when you've only cleared half of MC |
| 03:52.14 | sancus | really suggests its a newb raid instance |
| 03:52.28 | Codayus | If you wish to hold conversations with people other than the voices in your head, using the commonly excepted meaning of words may make people respect your views more. :-) |
| 03:53.14 | sancus | There is rarely a commonly accepted meaning of slang like newbs, so yeah I probably shouldn't have used it |
| 03:54.33 | sancus | still ZG is clearly lowest level of raiding so I don't know how precise you want me to be! |
| 03:54.59 | AnduinLothar | actually the new 20 man aq is easier |
| 03:55.13 | Shadowd | Though it was suppose to be harder? |
| 03:55.14 | sancus | have you cleared it? |
| 03:55.45 | AnduinLothar | they said it'd be easier and most agree that it is, but no i personally haven't cleared it. ask me next week |
| 03:55.58 | sancus | some of its easier |
| 03:56.17 | Codayus | Well, it's tougher than Ony and at least the first half of MC. Due to guild drama, we haven't tried the last half. If ZG is for noobs, what's that make Gehennas? |
| 03:56.20 | sancus | last boss is definitely harder |
| 03:56.37 | sancus | but hakkar sucks and needs buffs bad so it might be a bad comparison |
| 03:56.39 | AnduinLothar | last is harder as was stated when they made the thing |
| 03:56.51 | Shadowd | Bah AB popped, be back in 20. |
| 03:58.11 | sancus | Codayus: It makes him for newbs too? Neither instance has all bosses of equal difficulty, ZG's scaling of difficulty just stops below MC's. Arlokk is certainly harder than Lucifron, Gehennas is probably a bit harder than the first couple ZG bosses |
| 03:59.53 | Codayus | I'd say... Snake < Luci/Mag/Gehenenas < Bat < Garr/Baron/Shaz < Rest of ZG. |
| 04:00.27 | AnduinLothar | bloodlord isn't that hard either |
| 04:00.37 | sancus | yea probably, another thing to take into account though is that the dissemination of strats is wider for MC than ZG because it's been around much longer |
| 04:00.41 | AnduinLothar | spider's pretty hard tho |
| 04:00.47 | Codayus | Ooops, I forgot the bloodlord. I'd put him...hmm, harder than snake, less than garr. |
| 04:00.52 | sancus | and because no one really _worked out_ strats for ZG |
| 04:01.06 | sancus | Since all the serious raid guilds can just blast through it without thinking about the optimal methods |
| 04:01.11 | sancus | optimal strats for ZG are rare |
| 04:01.21 | Codayus | Pft, you need strats for MC? Hey, tank the guards over there, the boss over here, keep the mts up, dispell like mad, and *CHARGE*! :-P |
| 04:01.32 | sancus | MC is all about positioning, so yes you do |
| 04:02.20 | Shadowd | It's about positioning a little, but BWL is more positioning focused then MC is. |
| 04:02.28 | AnduinLothar | bah. the discussion has just past my 'interesting' level into my 'worthless grumbling' categorry |
| 04:02.35 | Codayus | Heh |
| 04:02.55 | sancus | Codayus: it was a *big deal* when Conquest first released their MC strats, and helped a lot of people |
| 04:03.24 | sancus | I mean, a *lot* of guilds just never discover things like "gee we can outrange magmadar's fear, and we should pull sulfuron's guards away from him one at a time so they can't cross-heal" |
| 04:03.57 | sancus | was a really big deal when conquest released their mc strats |
| 04:04.15 | Codayus | Magmadar's fear seems too obvious to need a guide for. Garr would be the first MC fight that's technical enough to need strategy, I think. |
| 04:04.19 | sancus | especially for the fire packs, those things crushed people hard |
| 04:04.54 | sancus | Gehennas, you want to move your adds out of line of sight for his curse and have a curse curer up front for the MT and a healing squad for the MT while the adds get killed |
| 04:05.07 | sancus | at the time, that was quite complex, when guilds were just learning how to raid together |
| 04:05.36 | Codayus | <shrug> Maybe so - but are you arguing that the ZG fights are far more complex? |
| 04:06.05 | Codayus | Even the snake boss is hard if you don't know the tricks. |
| 04:06.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBl1de1 (n=kyle@c-67-186-244-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:06.25 | Codayus | are NOT far more complex. |
| 04:06.29 | Codayus | ZOMG, typos FTL. |
| 04:06.31 | sancus | No, I was just saying that MC has a very detailed analysis available |
| 04:06.48 | sancus | ZG less so since its newer and since all the people who do analyze such things(high end raid guilds) can just blast through ZG ignoring the subtleties |
| 04:06.50 | sancus | because of their gear |
| 04:07.03 | sancus | which we certainly do, heh |
| 04:07.08 | AnduinLothar | zomg requires reading!? ftlbbq |
| 04:07.10 | sancus | cc on trash pulls? thats for pussies, sir |
| 04:07.38 | AnduinLothar | pussies with blues, yes |
| 04:07.40 | sancus | concerning yourself with who arlokk targets? who the hell cares, just kill the mob |
| 04:08.16 | AnduinLothar | zomg elitist guildie! Boot Him |
| 04:08.44 | sancus | even like broodlord for example |
| 04:08.49 | Codayus | Thereby proving that ZG isn't an instance for noobs then? 'cause my guild isn't epic equipped at all, and we more or less zerged Gehennas on our first attempt - just treated him like Luci and it just worked. ZG...um...well, I'm really really proud that we got the spider boss on our third try. And we got thekal on our...20-30th? |
| 04:08.50 | sancus | To this day we still just slaughter the raptor and slaughter him |
| 04:09.00 | sancus | even though killing the raptor uber buffs him :P |
| 04:09.14 | sancus | and optimally you probably want to just offtank it |
| 04:09.15 | Codayus | Meh, just wait the buff out. It goes away. |
| 04:09.29 | sancus | that kind of thing can kill a tank in blues though |
| 04:09.35 | Codayus | Slow, but if you're worried about it, trivial. |
| 04:10.21 | sancus | ZG is an instance designed to teach you the skills required for raiding mostly |
| 04:10.28 | Codayus | *nod* |
| 04:10.34 | sancus | It also punishes failure much more harshly than MC |
| 04:10.39 | sancus | probably because it has to, since it's only 20 man |
| 04:10.40 | Codayus | Problem - MC (first half, anyhow) doesn't need those skills. |
| 04:11.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 04:11.27 | sancus | well yea |
| 04:11.43 | sancus | ZG was also built for the modern gear level |
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| 04:12.27 | AnduinLothar | zg is zomg impossible with lag today |
| 04:13.20 | sancus | lag in zg? :/ |
| 04:13.29 | sancus | thats unusual, at least on our server |
| 04:13.39 | AnduinLothar | lol. you aren't on kil'jaeden |
| 04:13.58 | Codayus | I killed Mag in a PUG once. We one-shotted him. The raid leader was experienced but...one shotting Mag? Dude! |
| 04:14.15 | sancus | no im on burning legion |
| 04:14.43 | sancus | Codayus: That's why MC is all about positioning, it requires little individual player skills, the wide dissemination of strats from high-end guilds really hurt it badly |
| 04:15.40 | sancus | ZG could prob be similarly trivialized if someone really did an indepth analysis but I havent seen one, especially for alliance |
| 04:16.03 | AnduinLothar | they should change the timing/positioning on all of the bosses every patch just to keep things insteresting |
| 04:16.08 | sancus | haha |
| 04:16.26 | sancus | yea that'd be a lot of work though, and constantly increasing work the more instances added to the game |
| 04:17.15 | Tain | That's just how it works. The first guilds to get in get the reward of the first loot, everyone else gets an easier time. |
| 04:17.19 | Codayus | ZG requires everyone to know what they're doing, not just one person. Luci is like a glorified Drak fight. I don't think there are strats which would let unskilled raids kick ass in ZG (and I don't think they helped too much in MC, but that happened before my time, so...) |
| 04:17.31 | AnduinLothar | nah, one guy could go through and change all the mc bosses in a day |
| 04:17.43 | sancus | at BLIZZARD? |
| 04:17.52 | Tain | They're not going to make it harder, that will discourage the later guilds who aren't as "good." |
| 04:17.56 | sancus | yea right |
| 04:18.10 | sancus | then they'd patch and the AH would be broken because someone changed the range of mag's fear |
| 04:18.42 | Iriel | Cairenn: 1.10 changes thread brought up to date |
| 04:18.44 | sancus | a bit of an exaggeration, but all those changes have to be checked for balance and checked for bugs and tested and etc etc |
| 04:18.53 | Cairenn | Iriel: thanks, will update mine |
| 04:18.55 | AnduinLothar | well of course they cant do it because of the testing and QA time, but you could do all the changes in a day |
| 04:19.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_ (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 04:19.24 | Tain | Where's cladhaire, I actually have WatchDog suggestions and I'm afraid I'll forget. |
| 04:19.29 | Codayus | A boss that had a different attack every week would be interesting... |
| 04:19.37 | AnduinLothar | papeer and pencil |
| 04:19.39 | sancus | Codayus: I dunno, I don't really think ZG requires people to know what they're doing that much more than MC, maybe a little, but it's also half the people you need to KNOW what they're doing |
| 04:19.56 | Cairenn | Iriel: heh, at this rate, we're going to end up requiring 2 posts on WoWI for it again, it's getting long :) |
| 04:20.07 | sancus | Codayus: So, like, Chromaggus? :P |
| 04:20.10 | sancus | or nefarian |
| 04:20.21 | Codayus | I wouldn't know about BWL bosses. :-) |
| 04:20.37 | sancus | Chromagus has two randomly selected(from a pool of like 6?) breath weapons every week |
| 04:20.51 | sancus | And Nefarian spawns two different mobs from a similar pool in his phase 1 every week |
| 04:21.12 | Iriel | Cairenn : I'm at least prepared with 2 posts on the main forum 8-) |
| 04:21.19 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 04:21.52 | Tain | Slouken needs to just stop working so hard. :) |
| 04:21.59 | sancus | Codayus: AQ40 has an even more fun concept, a fight where it's different depending on which order you kill the mobs and you get different loot based on that too |
| 04:22.04 | Codayus | Unfortunatly, due to some rather unfortunate real life drama, my guild is stuck in ZG for a while. Our advancement went from "4 new bosses in 2 weeks" to "unable to hit MC/Ony anymore". |
| 04:22.28 | sancus | attendance drop that bad? you can prob do MC up to where you are with 30 |
| 04:22.30 | Tain | All this positive feedback and actually implementing things the community suggests is just unnatural. |
| 04:23.05 | Codayus | Not so much attendance, more of a split. We're recruiting, and might even try an MC raid next week...but... :-/ |
| 04:23.42 | sancus | Split? heh, raid guild drama ftw |
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| 04:23.54 | Cairenn | Iriel: at least at WoWI I don't have to reserve posts - oh the times I wish I had admin capacity on the Blizz forum .... |
| 04:24.24 | Codayus | Ya, it was great. Deleted posts, backstabbing, adultery - the whole nine yards. W00t. |
| 04:24.32 | Shadowd | Wow, nice |
| 04:24.33 | Violentnight|WoW | yeah.. get rid of the 50 posts that all ask the same thing ^_^ |
| 04:25.28 | sancus | heh |
| 04:25.57 | sancus | I think we're the only raid guild on our server that has existed since release day 1 and has only ever kicked out two members |
| 04:26.06 | Cairenn | Codayus: "We Got Drama, Yes We Do. We Got Drama, How About You!?!" |
| 04:26.11 | sancus | everyone else seems to split and reform on a weekly basis |
| 04:27.04 | sancus | alliance was really bad at one point, their major raid guild split, then the original guild collapsed, and like 3 other guilds started from that, then the first split guild split... |
| 04:27.07 | sancus | it got pretty confusing |
| 04:27.25 | Tain | Yay for the Lazy Peon quest. |
| 04:27.26 | Codayus | It got a bit confusing on our server, but most of the bad drama happened before I was raiding. |
| 04:28.00 | sancus | The main reason we're stable is because about 50% of the membership knows eachother RL |
| 04:28.15 | Codayus | Actually, to make the drama worse, it was a guild alliance. (Yeah...I know. I know.) The other guild imploded and is reforming. |
| 04:28.33 | sancus | Guilds that existed pre-wow also tend to be fairly stable, especially guilds that existed over many games |
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| 04:29.20 | sancus | what server are you on? pve or pvp? |
| 04:29.24 | Codayus | Our guild is actually very stable. 90% of us know each other some how out of game, and we've never kicked anyone. The problem is, our guild can field maybe 10 people to a raid. |
| 04:29.31 | Codayus | Lightbringer. PvE carebears FTW. |
| 04:30.36 | sancus | ouch, horde lightbringer slackin'! |
| 04:30.40 | Codayus | We don't want to grow, but we want to get epix. :-( |
| 04:30.49 | sancus | I would suggest you grow anyway |
| 04:30.59 | sancus | alliances are terribly unstable |
| 04:31.06 | sancus | growing's the lesser evil |
| 04:31.10 | Codayus | Ah, looking at the AQ progress? Yeah, alliance outnumbers horde like...4:1 or something insane. |
| 04:31.36 | sancus | its funny because on BL horde is at 99% and alliance is at 84%, lagging badly |
| 04:31.40 | Codayus | Yeah. Seeing the last alliance fall apart was annoying. A lot of wasted time and effort up in smoke. |
| 04:32.06 | sancus | we have more alliance than horde but its only like 1.5:1 I think |
| 04:32.48 | Codayus | I hope AQ20 is doable. |
| 04:32.54 | sancus | it should be |
| 04:33.01 | sancus | plus the biggest upgrades are the skill drops and they drop off every boss |
| 04:33.10 | Codayus | For us, that is. I've heard the loot is better than ZG, and the bosses not really tougher. |
| 04:33.11 | sancus | so even if you can only clear like half of it |
| 04:33.15 | Codayus | Yeah. |
| 04:33.19 | sancus | you still get all the good stuff |
| 04:33.44 | sancus | Well the loot nicely complements ZG |
| 04:33.54 | sancus | since the faction sets are um weapon/cloak/ring instead of an armoar set |
| 04:33.56 | sancus | er armor |
| 04:34.05 | sancus | and the weapon is MC-level |
| 04:34.11 | Codayus | Yeah, the weapon is kickass. |
| 04:34.35 | sancus | the drops are OK, I havent really looked much at them |
| 04:35.07 | sancus | Ossirian seems to drop stuff that is better than anything in MC but Rag though |
| 04:35.12 | Codayus | I'm using a Lorespinner/Milli's combo on my priest main. No priest ZG weapons have dropped so far, and I could really use an upgrade. |
| 04:35.34 | sancus | not sure about priest weapons, there's a really nice nuker staff from ossirian |
| 04:36.20 | sancus | http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52661 |
| 04:37.12 | Guillotine | hehe. ya. I seem to have problems with staying connected to IRC |
| 04:37.12 | Codayus | Heh, I'd take it even as a priest. :-P Although obviously it should go to DPS casters first. |
| 04:37.41 | sancus | oh, hey |
| 04:37.46 | sancus | the priest weapon IS pretty nice |
| 04:37.46 | sancus | http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52575 |
| 04:38.04 | Codayus | No kidding. |
| 04:38.09 | sancus | with milli's thats like |
| 04:38.17 | sancus | 10mp5 and 90 healing and decent int/stam? |
| 04:38.46 | Codayus | Yeah |
| 04:39.03 | sancus | That's better than any healer combination available out of MC I'm pretty sure |
| 04:39.15 | sancus | maybe even BWL, lok'amir isnt that great for priests |
| 04:39.38 | sancus | you should try green dragons tho |
| 04:39.39 | sancus | http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52191 |
| 04:39.49 | Codayus | Fang of Venoxis is better than Aurastone Hammer I believe. And the Fang is 8int, 6spi, +24 healing, and 6mp5. |
| 04:40.18 | sancus | Lethon is super easy if you know the trick(we do him with 15), and Ysondre is super easy too |
| 04:40.20 | Codayus | The Gavel is a bit less spirit and mp5, but +90 healing? Yeah. |
| 04:40.46 | Codayus | How many people do they need? Full 40 man? |
| 04:41.01 | sancus | Theoretically? 40-man, but they're like azuregos, you can do most of them with less |
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| 04:41.18 | sancus | Only Taerar is really harsh on requirements, because he splits into 3 at 75,50,25, so you need to keep two tanks up and dps 3 mobs down |
| 04:41.40 | sancus | two tanks in addition to MT I mean |
| 04:41.44 | sancus | Emeriss is arguably easier with 20 than 40, certainly is for us :P |
| 04:42.05 | sancus | they all do 75,50,25 tricks |
| 04:42.28 | sancus | Emeriss hits everyone with a dot that does 100% of their hp in damage, and if anyone dies, they become a mushroom that deals obscene(1k dps) dot damage |
| 04:42.44 | Codayus | fun |
| 04:42.54 | sancus | So the idea is, you heal yourself a bit, potion, whatever |
| 04:43.02 | sancus | and you dont die because it only dealt 100% of your maximum hitpoints |
| 04:43.22 | sancus | If no one dies, its quite easy, but if one person dies, it can collapse half your raid due to a mushroom chain reaction |
| 04:43.29 | Codayus | Hmmm. |
| 04:43.31 | sancus | Hence why it can be easier with 20 since less chance someone screws up |
| 04:43.35 | Codayus | Heh, yeah. |
| 04:43.40 | Codayus | I've heard they're fun encounters. |
| 04:43.50 | sancus | They are, Ysondre is the most straight-forward, I would start there |
| 04:44.06 | sancus | Ysondre just spawns a bunch of moonfire spawning druids at 75,50,25, they can be AE'd so whatever, they're weak |
| 04:44.19 | sancus | otherwise its tank the mob and kill it |
| 04:45.19 | sancus | if you've killed onyxia you should have no trouble with ysondre after a couple tries |
| 04:45.38 | Shadowd | Can you still survive Emeriss's DoT with defense stance? |
| 04:45.57 | sancus | uh I think so, I dont play a warrior though :p |
| 04:47.06 | sancus | That's dangerous though, you'll still be very low on hps and a disease tick or a mushroom will instakill you |
| 04:48.45 | Shadowd | Yeah, but at least you wont be killed out right by it. |
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| 05:09.53 | sancus | lol |
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| 06:19.43 | Violentnight | Making any progress, Iriel? |
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| 06:22.35 | krka | yay! wake up to see that slouken has replied! |
| 06:22.42 | futrtrubl | ## SavedVariables: StatusBar, Type, ShowXP, ShowRested |
| 06:23.01 | futrtrubl | what a nasty set of persistant globals that mod uses |
| 06:23.02 | krka | futrtrubl, you may want to choose less generic names |
| 06:23.12 | krka | oh, not your own :) |
| 06:23.14 | futrtrubl | not mine I assure you! |
| 06:23.24 | krka | then i simply agree with you |
| 06:23.31 | futrtrubl | Titan Xp Status |
| 06:24.42 | krka | i should shut up, i named an addon "Speed" |
| 06:24.55 | futrtrubl | what id it do? |
| 06:25.40 | futrtrubl | and as far as names go that's not bad, the above is horendous for vars though |
| 06:25.46 | futrtrubl | did* |
| 06:26.45 | krka | it shows your runspeed |
| 06:27.00 | futrtrubl | back when that worked :( |
| 06:27.24 | krka | huh? |
| 06:27.28 | krka | still works |
| 06:27.30 | krka | i use it daily |
| 06:27.44 | futrtrubl | I feel unclean for looking at this addon, the savedvars are the least of it's problems |
| 06:27.53 | Violentnight | lol |
| 06:27.59 | Violentnight | what's the addon do, futrtrubl? |
| 06:28.09 | krka | this is why i never use other peoples addons :P |
| 06:28.12 | futrtrubl | really? I thought they got rid of the speed stuff |
| 06:28.26 | futrtrubl | displays xp info in titan |
| 06:28.27 | krka | you can use the map position info |
| 06:28.32 | futrtrubl | ahhhh k |
| 06:28.46 | Violentnight | what'd people use before? and why did they get rid of it? |
| 06:29.21 | krka | you could get the current location before |
| 06:29.29 | krka | regardless of map |
| 06:29.56 | Violentnight | so.. world location as opposed to map location? |
| 06:30.05 | krka | it think so |
| 06:30.08 | krka | not sure |
| 06:30.17 | krka | i was barely around before that got removed |
| 06:30.28 | Violentnight | hehe--I was around, but not modding at the time |
| 06:31.52 | Violentnight | Did you guys kill Iriel while I was gone? tsk tsk |
| 06:32.31 | futrtrubl | only a little |
| 06:32.45 | Iriel | Oh, I was gonna sketch something out for you. oops. |
| 06:32.52 | Violentnight | lol |
| 06:32.57 | Iriel | Sorry about that, I actually had a chance to PLAY! |
| 06:33.10 | futrtrubl | see, he's not even mostly dead |
| 06:33.15 | Violentnight | it's cool.. no rush.. I got caught up in the game too for awhile and forgot about the chan |
| 06:33.23 | Violentnight | lol futrtrubl |
| 06:34.12 | Violentnight | You sound like my GAM230 teacher... he always mentions how he never gets to play games anymore |
| 06:35.02 | Violentnight | And when he does... he has this huge ginormous battleship-type starship in some MMO and likes to blow people up |
| 06:36.02 | Violentnight | what's live? teh site? |
| 06:36.08 | Cairenn | click the link |
| 06:36.31 | Violentnight | I did... I suppose you expect me to read it too, huh? |
| 06:36.45 | Shadowd | Basically, lots of fancy features |
| 06:37.00 | Shadowd | Looks good Cairenn |
| 06:37.06 | Violentnight | lol nice opening paragraph |
| 06:37.49 | Violentnight | sounds nice.. I'll have to submit something and try it out later |
| 06:38.26 | Shadowd | same! |
| 06:39.24 | Violentnight | Nice avatar, Cairenn -_^ |
| 06:40.14 | Shadowd | Now to figure out which category to choose |
| 06:41.53 | futrtrubl | Oh My God, Cairenn... wow |
| 06:42.18 | Cairenn | ? |
| 06:42.33 | Shadowd | He's probably commenting on the changes |
| 06:42.39 | Iriel | Violentnight : http://wow.pastebin.com/542865 |
| 06:42.41 | futrtrubl | now I see why you kept it under wraps, the suspence was worth it |
| 06:42.43 | Violentnight | WowI is lookin alot nicer.. but I still prefer the layout at CG |
| 06:42.45 | Cairenn | that's the big project we've been working on |
| 06:43.00 | Violentnight | it's so hard to choose |
| 06:43.36 | futrtrubl | I'll portalify when I get the next version of my addon ready ;'] |
| 06:43.44 | krka | cool cair! |
| 06:43.49 | krka | cant wait to try it out |
| 06:43.57 | krka | feature reqs and bug reqs are pretty useful |
| 06:44.06 | End-sanehat | hrmmmm |
| 06:44.09 | End-sanehat | it doesn't liiike me |
| 06:44.39 | krka | me neither |
| 06:44.41 | krka | can't agree |
| 06:44.55 | End-sanehat | "You must agree blah blah blah" stupid javascript >:( |
| 06:44.58 | Cairenn | what do you mean it doesn't like you? |
| 06:45.02 | Violentnight | lol |
| 06:45.06 | Violentnight | ewww JS |
| 06:45.52 | krka | yeah, the JS is broken |
| 06:45.54 | End-sanehat | it brings up a js alert saying ¨You must agree to the rules before you can enable your portal." |
| 06:46.14 | futrtrubl | gods, this addon has a frame that is its own parent... the horrors never end |
| 06:46.27 | Violentnight | lol |
| 06:46.31 | End-sanehat | the interesting thing is if you uncheck it lets you go to the next page at least...but then it complains with a similar error message :P |
| 06:46.34 | Shadowd | Which addon is this? |
| 06:46.47 | krka | seems to only follow the IE style |
| 06:46.48 | futrtrubl | Titan XP Status |
| 06:46.57 | krka | dlform.docertify.value |
| 06:47.02 | krka | pretty sure that only works in IE |
| 06:47.20 | Violentnight | Did you know that if you don't assign a parent then a frame won't be hidden with Alt+Z |
| 06:47.43 | futrtrubl | yup, this ain't my mod |
| 06:48.43 | Violentnight | I wonder what parent="$parent" would do |
| 06:48.44 | krka | works if i disable javascript though |
| 06:48.52 | krka | yup Violentnight |
| 06:49.27 | End-sanehat | hmmm |
| 06:49.35 | End-sanehat | disabling javascript didn't help me o_O |
| 06:49.48 | End-sanehat | well |
| 06:49.51 | End-sanehat | not right away |
| 06:49.57 | End-sanehat | I had to reload the page, and then it worked |
| 06:49.59 | Violentnight | lol nice comic on wowi |
| 06:50.12 | Cairenn | yeah, Woody made that for our sites ages ago |
| 06:50.42 | Cairenn | so are you guys saying there is a problem with the enable script for the portals? or are you talking about something else that I missed? |
| 06:50.47 | Iriel | Parentless frames end up children of the implicit 'root window' |
| 06:51.04 | krka | yes you got it right cait |
| 06:51.05 | End-sanehat | Cairenn: yes about the enable script |
| 06:51.05 | krka | cair |
| 06:51.25 | Cairenn | okay, hang on, will see if I can get Dolby in here |
| 06:51.42 | End-sanehat | the javascript to check to make sure you clicked YES! I AGREE! doesn't seem to work under firefox |
| 06:51.43 | Violentnight | So is it a design feature or flaw that Alt+Z doesn't hide the children of the root window? |
| 06:51.55 | End-sanehat | both? |
| 06:52.04 | Violentnight | lol it can't be both |
| 06:52.12 | End-sanehat | oh yes, it can |
| 06:52.13 | End-sanehat | ;p |
| 06:52.16 | Violentnight | =P |
| 06:52.31 | Iriel | It's just the way it is |
| 06:52.32 | Violentnight | Woot! Iriel listed my "Shortcomings of SavedVariables" thread on the 1.10 changelog |
| 06:52.39 | Iriel | Alt-Z just hides UIParent |
| 06:52.45 | Iriel | anything that's not a child of UIParent stays visible |
| 06:52.49 | futrtrubl | no, I can't read anymore of this addons code.... it... uses.... RegisterForSave() |
| 06:52.57 | End-sanehat | Alt-Z does one other thing too, but I forget what |
| 06:53.00 | Shadowd | how old is it? |
| 06:53.20 | Shadowd | Same thing as SavedVariables, but it actually works |
| 06:53.24 | futrtrubl | it is current, updated since last patch |
| 06:53.24 | Shadowd | *SavedVariables in the .toc |
| 06:53.58 | Violentnight | sounds like a feature... though, before I realized it, it was buggin teh heck outta me that Alt+Z wasn't hiding my frames |
| 06:54.01 | End-sanehat | the only good use for RFS I have found is if you are playing around with something with /script, and want to save the output to disk |
| 06:54.12 | futrtrubl | omg, it uses RegisterForSave AND ## SavedVariables: for the same vars... |
| 06:54.16 | Shadowd | haha |
| 06:54.17 | Violentnight | Shadowd: RegisterForSave() is like SavedVariables, but actually works? ... wouldn't that make it a good thing? |
| 06:54.25 | Iriel | Well, if having the world NOT disappear also is a 'feature' then sure, it's a feature |
| 06:54.39 | Cairenn | Dolby response: yeah, but the php still catches it |
| 06:54.45 | Iriel | Violentnight : RegisterForSave is an unreliable, non-classified ## SavedVariables |
| 06:54.50 | Iriel | Dont use it, ever |
| 06:54.53 | Shadowd | Violentnight: Said that wrong. RegisterForSave has some issues like if the addon is disabled then it loses the features. ## SavedVariables works all the time. |
| 06:54.59 | Shadowd | *loses the settings |
| 06:55.06 | Iriel | Unless you absolutely understand what it does, and exactly why you're using it |
| 06:55.26 | Shadowd | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_RegisterForSave |
| 06:55.29 | End-sanehat | Cairenn: but the problem is the js "catches" you no matter what (under firefox) |
| 06:55.51 | End-sanehat | Cairenn: it doesn't detect the state of the checkbox correctly, and always thinks it is unchecked |
| 06:56.00 | Cairenn | he's coming in, hang on |
| 06:56.03 | End-sanehat | which is why you have to disable js |
| 06:56.15 | Iriel | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Save_Variables_Between_Game_Sessions |
| 06:56.17 | Violentnight | he's coming in? You guys at WowI have your own office or something? |
| 06:56.31 | End-sanehat | Voilentnight: perhaps into the channel? |
| 06:56.33 | Cairenn | into the channel :p |
| 06:56.40 | Violentnight | ooooh--I nude that |
| 06:57.55 | Cairenn | guys, he says "try now", he has ff and it worked fine |
| 06:57.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (i=user@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 06:57.59 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Dolby-wowi] by ChanServ |
| 06:58.15 | Violentnight | what version of FF are ya'll usin? It does update often |
| 06:58.17 | Cairenn | ah, there he is, THE man! |
| 06:58.17 | End-sanehat | well, I already enabled it after disabling javascript, so I can't exactly test now :P |
| 06:58.18 | Wobin_ | Woot it works now |
| 06:58.27 | Shadowd | Well that was a fast approval time for files |
| 06:58.35 | Wobin_ | Cairenn: disregard previous question in other channel =) |
| 06:59.07 | Violentnight | brb |
| 06:59.08 | Iriel | Hey Dolby, nice work on all the wowi goodies. |
| 07:00.43 | Dolby-wowi | Hey thanks :) |
| 07:00.50 | Wobin_ | IAWTC =) |
| 07:00.55 | Dolby-wowi | More and more and more and more features to come |
| 07:01.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 07:05.01 | futrtrubl | even more? futrtrubl swoons. |
| 07:05.35 | Cairenn | oh yeah, we've got a lot more planned, just we wanted to get it live |
| 07:08.12 | futrtrubl | hokay.. I was waiting for the new episode of SG Atlantis to be released, only to find that the season ended, so now I'm going to go to bed :( |
| 07:08.30 | Violentnight | aw g'night, futrtrubl |
| 07:08.38 | futrtrubl | g'night all |
| 07:09.03 | Cairenn | night futr-sleep |
| 07:11.37 | Cairenn | javascript disabled for now, until he can find out why it's misbehaving for some users |
| 07:11.47 | Violentnight | WowI doesn't display the correct time for me =P |
| 07:12.13 | Cairenn | have you changed the time zone in your user options? |
| 07:12.45 | Violentnight | yup... I think the DST is backwards? We don't have daylight savings time in Arizona, but I have to turn it on in order for it to show the current time |
| 07:12.50 | Violentnight | otherwise, it's an hour behind |
| 07:12.55 | Cairenn | ah |
| 07:13.13 | Cairenn | well, tell your stupid state to get with the times |
| 07:13.19 | Violentnight | lol |
| 07:13.44 | futr-sleep | hey! my country does the same! |
| 07:13.54 | Violentnight | it's funny 'cause if I turn on Windows' automatic time synchronization that it sets my clock an hour off too.. even with DST disabled |
| 07:13.56 | Cairenn | get it? "get with the times" daylight savings time? |
| 07:14.07 | Violentnight | oh.. ha ha ha.. very funny |
| 07:14.37 | futr-sleep | and up until xmas I went to school in AZ |
| 07:14.46 | Violentnight | ^_^ |
| 07:15.02 | futr-sleep | DST is a cheat to get more work |
| 07:15.06 | Violentnight | anyone know of an addon that gives an assist button for party members? |
| 07:15.33 | futr-sleep | Group Buttons will give you 20 ;'] |
| 07:15.37 | Violentnight | nah.. DST is a 'hack' for attempting to have the sun rise and set around the same time everyday |
| 07:15.52 | Violentnight | 20 assist buttons? that's a little overkill |
| 07:16.00 | Cairenn | sorry, it's late and I've been on pins and needles about the portals and how they get accepted (or not) by the mod author community, so I'm a little loopy |
| 07:16.07 | Violentnight | I suppose I could make 4 macros and parent them to the party frames... |
| 07:16.09 | futr-sleep | well, of different types of "assisting" |
| 07:16.24 | Iriel | Why not just make 4 buttons and parent those? |
| 07:16.42 | Iriel | <OnClick>AssistUnit(this.unit)</OnClick> |
| 07:17.00 | Violentnight | I just said that, Iriel =P |
| 07:17.10 | futr-sleep | but you said macros |
| 07:17.30 | Violentnight | oh same difference! |
| 07:17.41 | futr-sleep | ;'] |
| 07:17.47 | futr-sleep | ok, now I'm really gone |
| 07:17.58 | Violentnight | yes.. off to bed with you! goodnight |
| 07:18.23 | Cairenn | sweet dreams futr-sleep |
| 07:18.36 | futr-sleep | thanks Violentnight and Cairenn |
| 07:19.29 | Violentnight | oh smack! |
| 07:19.32 | krka | i wish i could get to bed, but i just got up :/ |
| 07:19.51 | Violentnight | Cairenn: my mistake.. the board isn't wrong.. apparently, I'm just not in PST |
| 07:20.10 | Violentnight | good job, krka ^_^ |
| 07:20.32 | Violentnight | how do I submit stuff on wowi? I'm really not diggin this interface |
| 07:21.04 | Cairenn | go to the section it belongs in |
| 07:22.11 | Violentnight | ooh I see |
| 07:22.23 | Dolby-wowi | or click the Upload & Update link |
| 07:22.27 | Dolby-wowi | on the front page in the menu |
| 07:23.17 | Cairenn | that too ;) |
| 07:23.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@pool011.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:24.09 | Violentnight | Do you guys have a place to make suggestions for the site? |
| 07:24.31 | Wobin_ | Dolby-wowi: I'm clicking on the avatars in an addon comment, and it's redirecting to the profile, instead of the portal as Cair suggests it should |
| 07:25.10 | Cairenn | Violentnight: yes, there is a suggestions forum |
| 07:25.27 | Cairenn | Violentnight: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18 |
| 07:25.34 | Dolby-wowi | yep theres a link to the forum in the main admin area of your portal OR just go here: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18 |
| 07:26.11 | Dolby-wowi | hmmmm wobin, let me check the code. |
| 07:26.21 | Kalroth | Violentnight: Don't bother suggesting more nudies, it won't work :( |
| 07:26.38 | Cairenn | Kalroth: *more* nudies? |
| 07:26.45 | Kalroth | eeep |
| 07:26.53 | krka | ah, screw it, i won't start working on my gui before 1.10 |
| 07:27.01 | krka | i so hate writing xml |
| 07:27.57 | Kalroth | Nuh uh! |
| 07:28.04 | Cairenn | hrmmmmmm |
| 07:28.06 | Kalroth | It was a slip! |
| 07:28.11 | Cairenn | uh huh |
| 07:28.26 | Cairenn | you'd better not have been photoshoping my avatar |
| 07:28.30 | Dolby-wowi | hmmm it looks like its working for me Wobin. Can you link me to a comment where its not? |
| 07:28.39 | End-sanehat | what sort of slip? |
| 07:28.51 | Kalroth | Cairenn: That's yours?! err, I mean, I wouldn't do such a thing! |
| 07:29.11 | Cairenn | >< |
| 07:29.26 | Wobin_ | Dolby: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2711 |
| 07:29.31 | Wobin_ | just clicking on Clad's avatar |
| 07:29.55 | Cairenn | but does clad have his portal enabled? |
| 07:30.12 | Wobin_ | I can get to it through cladhaire.wowinterface.com |
| 07:30.22 | Cairenn | (I couldn't remember) |
| 07:30.37 | Violentnight | if I have numerous suggestions, would you prefer numerous threads or just one? |
| 07:30.40 | Cairenn | (I wasn't sure which FAs set stuff up during testing) |
| 07:30.47 | Dolby-wowi | the avatar brings you to the user profile, clicking on the icon below it that says Featured or Author should bring you to their portal if its enabled |
| 07:30.52 | Cairenn | either or, Violentnight, your choice |
| 07:31.28 | Wobin_ | Aha |
| 07:32.51 | Cairenn | Dolby-wowi: suggestion then ... if they have a portal, have a link to it on the profile page? |
| 07:33.25 | Violentnight | What is this 'portal' of which you speak? |
| 07:33.59 | Wobin_ | Have a look at the frontpage of WoWi for the news post =) |
| 07:34.27 | Cairenn | and Violentnight, just so you know ... we really *do* appreciate site suggestions and feedback ... we may not always act on it, but we do consider it ... the site can only get better by hearing from the community |
| 07:34.40 | Cairenn | if no one ever gives us any feedback ... /shrug |
| 07:35.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@adsl-67-121-136-30.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 07:37.25 | Violentnight | good ^_^ 'cause I'm full of criticism... and I try my best to keep it constructive |
| 07:38.00 | Elkano | /hug Cairenn for the portal system |
| 07:38.43 | Violentnight | ooh right.. I gotta wait for my addon to be approved before I can try the portal |
| 07:38.50 | Kalroth | Cairenn: You don't need feedback for a perfect site! |
| 07:39.04 | Violentnight | haha |
| 07:39.08 | End-sanehat | but it needs more nudies! |
| 07:39.09 | End-sanehat | er |
| 07:39.11 | End-sanehat | I mean |
| 07:39.16 | Violentnight | lol |
| 07:39.41 | Cairenn | it's already been approved Violentnight |
| 07:39.43 | Kalroth | End-sanehat: Although that 'more' word can get you in trouble. |
| 07:39.57 | End-sanehat | So I have observed. |
| 07:40.37 | Violentnight | Cairenn: you sure? My handle isn't Violentnight on the site, and the link gives the error: Error |
| 07:40.37 | Violentnight | Sorry, this feature is for interface authors only. You do not have any files in our database. If you have just uploaded an interface it may take up to 24hrs for our system to flag your account for author status. If you are an interface author and after 24hrs still can not enable your portal please contact an admin for help. |
| 07:41.06 | Cairenn | sec, getting dolby to remind me how to manually update the cache :p |
| 07:41.07 | End-sanehat | "it may take up to 24hrs for our system to flag your account for author status." |
| 07:41.36 | End-sanehat | but of course, Cairenn can force it to flag, so I suppose that'll fix your problem :P |
| 07:41.40 | Violentnight | End-sanehat: I assumed that's because they're allowing themselves up to 24 hours to approve anything you submit |
| 07:41.50 | Cairenn | Violentnight: nope |
| 07:42.11 | Violentnight | well.. then... booger snot |
| 07:42.22 | Cairenn | unless we are *all* asleep, mods are approved within minutes, typically |
| 07:42.53 | Violentnight | so why the 24 hour wait? |
| 07:43.09 | Cairenn | sec, getting dolby to remind me how to manually update the cache :p |
| 07:43.12 | End-sanehat | because it updates the cache every 24 hours? just a guess |
| 07:43.44 | Violentnight | End-sanehat: I'm guessing so too now... but... meh, I dunno--I've never worked with a cache, but that seems like an awful long time |
| 07:44.09 | Elkano | :( slouken hasn't answered on 'my' thread, yet |
| 07:44.09 | Cairenn | it normally updates more often than that (every 6, iirc), but things happen |
| 07:44.18 | Cairenn | so we allow ourselves a bit of leeway |
| 07:44.21 | End-sanehat | ah |
| 07:44.23 | Violentnight | owwie! |
| 07:44.28 | End-sanehat | makes sense |
| 07:44.33 | Cairenn | oh, and, ummm, try now :p |
| 07:44.42 | Violentnight | iirc? |
| 07:44.49 | Cairenn | if I recall correctly |
| 07:44.59 | Violentnight | right right.. I always have trouble remembering that one |
| 07:45.08 | Cairenn | ~wtf iirc |
| 07:45.16 | Violentnight | nifty |
| 07:45.18 | Violentnight | ~wtf cc |
| 07:45.30 | Violentnight | ~wtf zg |
| 07:45.34 | Violentnight | tsk tsk |
| 07:45.46 | Cairenn | and, Dolby is setting it to update every 15 mins or so, for a while |
| 07:45.46 | Kalroth | silly perl |
| 07:45.49 | End-sanehat | purl's acronym database is pretty generic |
| 07:45.59 | Cairenn | anyway, have you checked now, Violentnight? hmmm? |
| 07:46.02 | Kalroth | ~wtf zug zug |
| 07:46.04 | End-sanehat | I doubt it even has WTB/WTS |
| 07:46.07 | Kalroth | :( |
| 07:46.09 | End-sanehat | ~wtf WTB |
| 07:46.13 | Kalroth | ~wtf zugzug |
| 07:46.17 | Violentnight | ~wtf LFG |
| 07:46.19 | Violentnight | ~wtf PST |
| 07:46.23 | Cairenn | not everything is programmed into him |
| 07:46.28 | Violentnight | no gaming terms.. hehe |
| 07:46.30 | Cairenn | sheesh :p |
| 07:46.36 | Violentnight | Cairenn: yup, it works.. I'm going to go twiddle now ^_^ |
| 07:46.46 | Kalroth | poor purl, he's being abused for his lack of knowledge! |
| 07:47.30 | End-sanehat | ~wtf BOGAHICA |
| 07:47.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-67-160-147-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 07:47.50 | End-sanehat | ~wtf BOGAHICA |
| 07:47.52 | End-sanehat | oops |
| 07:47.53 | Wobin_ | ~wtf TANSTAAFL |
| 07:47.54 | End-sanehat | wrong paste |
| 07:48.12 | End-sanehat | ~wtf TWIAVBP |
| 07:48.17 | Violentnight | nice--so the portal is a place where people can submit bug reports and feature suggestions to me? (amongst other things) |
| 07:48.25 | Cairenn | indeed |
| 07:48.31 | End-sanehat | ~wtf AYBABTU |
| 07:48.55 | End-sanehat | ~wtf YKWIM |
| 07:49.04 | Violentnight | yeah, you guys have way better features than CG... they give you a message thread with each addon, but the oldest post is put in first and.. it just sucks |
| 07:49.16 | Violentnight | ~lrt End-sanehat |
| 07:49.25 | Cairenn | well, the forum support remains, as well :) |
| 07:49.31 | End-sanehat | ~whaleslap Violentnight |
| 07:49.33 | purl | I'll just grab a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh and slap Violentnight over the head with it..... |
| 07:49.46 | End-sanehat | and I'm done messin with purl now. |
| 07:49.54 | Violentnight | why it's gotta be named Hugh? why can't it be named Shirley? |
| 07:50.05 | End-sanehat | surely it couldn't be named shirley! |
| 07:50.16 | Iriel | Ok, time to sleep |
| 07:50.22 | Cairenn | because it's a freakishly huge whale |
| 07:50.23 | Wobin_ | Roger, Roger! What's our vector Victor? |
| 07:50.27 | End-sanehat | k, cya Iriel |
| 07:50.29 | Cairenn | night Iriel, sweet dreams :) |
| 07:50.44 | End-sanehat | wtf is a smoogle? o_O |
| 07:50.47 | Iriel | You too, if/when you manage dreamland. |
| 07:50.50 | Wobin_ | smooch huggle? |
| 07:50.53 | Violentnight | g'night Iriel |
| 07:50.59 | krka | damn it, UNIT_AURA does not trigger on mouseover |
| 07:51.22 | Kalroth | krka: That'll teach you to ask in here! |
| 07:51.30 | krka | yeah |
| 07:51.30 | Violentnight | krka: why would it? |
| 07:51.37 | krka | well, it does trigger sometimes |
| 07:51.41 | Corrodias | my god. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0068407/ |
| 07:51.49 | krka | but it appears that only happens if it actually updates while i have it hovered |
| 07:52.05 | Violentnight | Weee pretty portal.. now I just gotta figure out what to do with it. Thanks Cairenn and Dolby ^_^ |
| 07:52.09 | Violentnight | good jobs |
| 07:52.35 | Cairenn | :) |
| 07:53.10 | Violentnight | I'm too tired right now.. but I expect me to go through the site and nit-pic and things and suggest improvements tomorrow ^_^ |
| 07:53.31 | Corrodias | that man has appeared in over 200 games/shows/movies... |
| 07:53.39 | Corrodias | well, voiced, not appeared in |
| 07:54.24 | Tem | eek it's live? |
| 07:55.13 | Violentnight | Siden's solution to long BG wait times: This may seem "ghetto" or whatever you people call it where youa re from (I am in no way bashing any ethnic groups intentionally) but you can do what I do and make my brother sit there and, for some reason, he likes to run around in circles (on the screen) so he just does that, then I tel him if a box pops up,to come get me, and he does, w00t! He is 7 so I like, give him a quarter or somet |
| 07:55.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano^wtf (i=Elkano@pool013.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:55.53 | Cairenn | Tem: indeed it is :) |
| 07:56.04 | Kolth | What's live? |
| 07:56.07 | Tem | Now I can direct people there! |
| 07:56.10 | Tem | huzzah! |
| 07:56.12 | Cairenn | that you can :) |
| 07:56.36 | Kalroth | Tekkub got an addon called MountMe, haa! |
| 07:57.04 | Cairenn | and for those of you wondering ... our FAs have had access to the portal system for a couple weeks now, checking for bugs, making suggestions, etc |
| 07:57.32 | Kalroth | is there an index over available portals? |
| 07:57.33 | Violentnight | FAs? |
| 07:57.42 | Wobin_ | Featured Authors(Artists?) |
| 07:57.53 | Violentnight | ahh |
| 07:57.55 | Cairenn | which is why some folks already have so much stuff set up, and are making comments like Tem's |
| 07:58.02 | Cairenn | Wobin_: correct :) |
| 07:58.11 | Violentnight | ooh nifty.. Tem is special |
| 07:58.32 | Tem | >< |
| 07:58.35 | Violentnight | lol |
| 07:58.52 | Tem | I need to flesh mine out like Tekkub's |
| 07:59.09 | Tem | tomorrow afternoon. 2 exams in the morning |
| 07:59.35 | Tem | but it is time for another news posting |
| 07:59.46 | Violentnight | Tem, gimme a link to yours |
| 07:59.55 | Tem | tardmrr.wowi |
| 08:00.07 | Violentnight | that isn't clickable! |
| 08:00.08 | krka | is level 37 in 4 days played good? |
| 08:00.46 | Violentnight | krka: Well, it took me 2-3 weeks to get to level 30 and I've been avoiding homework and everything else possible in order to play |
| 08:00.50 | Cairenn | btw, if you guys like it (the portal), please consider giving us a bump: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=315608&p=1&tmp=1#post315608 , http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3690 |
| 08:00.51 | Violentnight | so... define "good" |
| 08:01.09 | Kalroth | krka: It's ok, depends on the class really |
| 08:01.26 | Cairenn | http://tardmrr.wowinterface.com |
| 08:01.37 | Shadowd | also depends on how many 60s or characters above 40+ you have too |
| 08:01.47 | Violentnight | thanks, Cairenn--finally somebody that understands my laziness ^_^ |
| 08:03.01 | End-sanehat | hmm, my knee itches |
| 08:03.12 | krka | well, i meant in game time, not actual time since creating the char |
| 08:03.33 | Violentnight | it tells you that? where? |
| 08:04.04 | Elkano^wtf | 4 days to go until '1 year WoW in Europe' :/ |
| 08:04.53 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:05.41 | Violentnight | 6 days 11 hours! woot |
| 08:05.50 | krka | what level? |
| 08:06.06 | Violentnight | granted.. a chunk of that was just keeping my character active while working with addons |
| 08:06.13 | Violentnight | 30 |
| 08:06.34 | krka | heh |
| 08:06.45 | krka | yeah a lot of time goes to fixing addons :(/ |
| 08:06.54 | Wobin_ | I'm 50 at 10 days... |
| 08:07.04 | Wobin_ | But that's not really powerlevelling... |
| 08:07.17 | Violentnight | how can a rape victim say she's a virgin? |
| 08:08.01 | Wobin_ | She -was- one, or still is one? |
| 08:08.22 | Wobin_ | And there are ways one can be raped and still technically remain a virgin... |
| 08:08.50 | Tem | I win |
| 08:08.52 | Violentnight | she said "You don't understand *sob* I'm a virgin!" |
| 08:09.06 | Tem | it took me 30 /days/ to get to 60 |
| 08:09.07 | Violentnight | Tem is a gurrrrrl! hahahahaha |
| 08:09.16 | Tem | what? |
| 08:09.39 | Tem | s/grl/GRL!!/ |
| 08:09.53 | Violentnight | lol |
| 08:09.56 | Elkano^wtf | hmm... with GetBuildInfo would be nice to get a GetLastReboot() ;) |
| 08:10.04 | Violentnight | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=315608&p=1&tmp=1#post315608 |
| 08:10.18 | Violentnight | see, Tem? You're a girl! |
| 08:10.57 | krka | 3s ping really lowers your dps |
| 08:11.00 | Violentnight | Does anyone else think there desperately needs to be a faster way to go through mail? I put 20 things up for auction, 2 sell, and then I have to grab the other 18 back one-by-one |
| 08:11.21 | Tem | it's called CT_MailMod |
| 08:12.46 | Violentnight | damn CT has everything.. and I haven't used any of their stuff |
| 08:14.29 | Wobin_ | The mailmod is fantastic |
| 08:14.34 | Wobin_ | Especially the mass mailing one |
| 08:14.46 | Wobin_ | Makes mailing to my AH mule so much quicker |
| 08:15.07 | Violentnight | The CT_MailMod post doesn't mention anything about opening mail |
| 08:15.21 | Wobin_ | Bumped =) |
| 08:15.29 | Wobin_ | It does, though... |
| 08:15.42 | Wobin_ | You can open all the mail at once (well one after the other at once) |
| 08:15.48 | Wobin_ | and it only occasionally bugs =P |
| 08:16.06 | Violentnight | hehe |
| 08:16.17 | Violentnight | you'd think that'd be an important feature to mention |
| 08:16.28 | Violentnight | Anyone know of a good auction addon besides Auctioneer? |
| 08:16.53 | Wobin_ | Nothing that is as good =\ |
| 08:17.18 | Wobin_ | as far as I've seen, CT_Mailmod's bug is that it leaves one message undeleted |
| 08:17.30 | Wobin_ | Which is acceptable to me for what it already does to the rest |
| 08:17.45 | Wobin_ | (sometimes leaves one behind, thaqt is) |
| 08:18.29 | Violentnight | hehe |
| 08:18.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 08:19.23 | Violentnight | Auctioneer is nice, but I don't like the way it functions--I want something that actually keeps track of when things sell and for how much. So if it sells quickly--bump the price up for hte next round. If it doesn't sell--bump it down. |
| 08:19.36 | Violentnight | I've considered making it myself, but it'd probably take me months.. lol |
| 08:20.55 | Cairenn | have you looked at KC_Items? (I don't recall whether it does that or not, but you could check) |
| 08:21.06 | krka | Tip: There is no cow level. |
| 08:21.22 | Cairenn | Violentnight: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4040 |
| 08:22.00 | Tem | cladhair: They're Live! |
| 08:22.16 | Cairenn | I don't think clad is actually with us |
| 08:22.25 | Cairenn | that's the second time he's logged back in |
| 08:22.35 | Kalroth | btw, am I a bastard: http://acdev.org/super_tank_weapon.JPG ? |
| 08:24.19 | Wobin_ | feh, my favourite pally tanks with a mining pick =P |
| 08:25.30 | krka | gah, stupid OnLeave never working |
| 08:25.40 | Violentnight | A bastard? No... but a dagger that increases damage and healing from spells may not be the best choice for a warrior |
| 08:26.15 | Kalroth | Wobin_: Well I don't actually use it for anything, I'm not that dumb :P I only looted it so I could stand in Org and get hate tells :) |
| 08:26.51 | Shadowd | Have you gotten yourself a caster OH yet? |
| 08:27.00 | krka | OH? |
| 08:27.01 | End-wafflehat | haha, that'd be awesome |
| 08:27.02 | Kalroth | working on it :p |
| 08:27.03 | Violentnight | Cairenn: Doesn't look like it.. just uses price averaging--like Auctioneer does. |
| 08:27.15 | Shadowd | Offhand |
| 08:27.15 | Cairenn | okay, was just a thought |
| 08:27.22 | End-wafflehat | get the AV one |
| 08:27.22 | Kalroth | I wonder if hand of Nef will do the trick :p |
| 08:27.29 | Wobin_ | *shrug* =P If I see something like a warrior with that, I just assume it would have been DE'd if he didn't take it =P |
| 08:28.29 | Kalroth | Wobin_: Yeah, it was :) |
| 08:28.36 | Shadowd | Chromaggus dagger would work too |
| 08:29.02 | Kalroth | I managed to convince a few locks that I bid more DKP than the locks in my guild, so I won it over them |
| 08:29.26 | Violentnight | DKP? |
| 08:29.33 | Kalroth | dragon kill points :) |
| 08:29.46 | Violentnight | what's that? |
| 08:29.56 | Kalroth | basically everyone in the raid gets 1 point for every time they help kill a boss |
| 08:30.10 | Kalroth | those points are then a currency to purchase loot from the bosses |
| 08:30.23 | End-wafflehat | there are a lot of variants |
| 08:30.35 | Kalroth | horrible, horrible system, I'm glad my guild doesn't use DKP in any way :) |
| 08:31.06 | Shadowd | It really isn't that bad. I never saw what people hated about it. |
| 08:31.17 | Violentnight | ahhh an addon |
| 08:31.29 | Tem | I actually like it because it takes the luck out of winning loot |
| 08:31.34 | Tem | I'm a very unlucky person |
| 08:31.36 | Kalroth | Shadowd: shamans/paladins with quick strike ring, shamans/paladins with DPS gear, etc :) |
| 08:31.36 | Shadowd | hehe |
| 08:31.42 | Tem | if I can lose a roll I will |
| 08:31.50 | Shadowd | Kalroth: The problem is you're using a straight up |
| 08:32.07 | Shadowd | "If you can bid/win/whatever, you can buy it" without class restrictions. |
| 08:32.21 | Tem | and that's ba |
| 08:32.22 | Tem | d |
| 08:32.27 | Tem | class restrictions are good |
| 08:33.18 | Tem | keeps those filthy pallies off my Azuresong Mageblade |
| 08:33.18 | Kalroth | Shadowd: Let me put it this way, we've never used DKP or similar and we clear both MC and BWL now. Not once has there been any whining over loot distribution :) |
| 08:33.18 | Tem | get your healing mace and stfu |
| 08:33.18 | Shadowd | Yeah, I'm not saying it's the right solution to everything, just that saying "it's horrible" is a bit strong. |
| 08:33.21 | End-wafflehat | the mageblade is so...featureless looking |
| 08:33.24 | Tem | I know |
| 08:33.29 | Kalroth | Shadowd: it is horrible ;) |
| 08:33.40 | Tem | for something so wtfub3r it's stupidly ugly |
| 08:33.41 | Wobin_ | Finkle's Lavadredger looks the best =) |
| 08:33.42 | Shadowd | It's horrible if you just use DKP, It's fair if you actually have a balance system |
| 08:33.55 | End-wafflehat | I have Finkle's Lava Dredger :D |
| 08:33.56 | Shadowd | But it's not for everyone, some people prefer council type systems |
| 08:34.00 | Kalroth | Shadowd: You need all kinds of modifiers for it to work |
| 08:34.16 | Wobin_ | Sure, but that goes for any system of rules =) |
| 08:34.21 | Violentnight | so how do I use CT_MailMod to quicken the process of getting items out of mail? |
| 08:34.22 | Shadowd | Yeah, but when you set up those modifiers they work great |
| 08:34.30 | Kalroth | Shadowd: fixed item prices, value decaying, min-max limitations, etc. |
| 08:34.45 | Shadowd | Well it sounds like you're arguing that your raid/guild leaders are lazy :p |
| 08:35.12 | Kalroth | nope, I'm saying that I've yet to see a good DKP system :) |
| 08:35.31 | Shadowd | The one that my old guild used worked fine, all the correct classes got stuff first. Points we're fairly distrubted. |
| 08:36.00 | Shadowd | Paladins didn't get askhandi's first :p |
| 08:36.03 | Kalroth | I guess DKP is good if you don't trust your fellow guildmembers, eg. pug MC guilds or similar :) |
| 08:36.12 | Shadowd | o.O |
| 08:37.24 | Shadowd | Well, we cleared BWL RAzor-Nef, and we've never had any loot issues, or people leave because of a loot issue. The only time there was an argument was paladins complaining because they couldn't roll on DPS gear or something silly like that. |
| 08:37.41 | Kalroth | Well that's a generic alliance problem :) |
| 08:37.56 | Kalroth | Cleansebots thinking they should DPS |
| 08:37.57 | Depherios | lol |
| 08:38.08 | Shadowd | Yep! But my point being, we never had any issues. Everyone liked the system and got loot as they should |
| 08:38.16 | Depherios | until they get DPS buffs and Defense nerfs and they cry |
| 08:38.33 | Shadowd | Well, paladins should be able to roll on DPS stuff. Just not when it's an upgrade for an actual DPS class. |
| 08:38.42 | Violentnight | Tem and Wobin_ .. this thing isn't pulling my items out of mail for me or anything! =P |
| 08:39.02 | Tem | sounds like you fail |
| 08:39.03 | Wobin_ | ... It should... |
| 08:39.19 | Kalroth | Shadowd: Thankfully shamans can't use mail, so we don't have that issue. :) |
| 08:39.22 | Violentnight | do I hafta click something special? |
| 08:39.24 | Kalroth | err, can't use plate ffs |
| 08:39.27 | krka | they cant? |
| 08:39.31 | Wobin_ | Shaman -can- use mail =P |
| 08:39.38 | Depherios | Mail Yes, Plate No |
| 08:39.39 | Shadowd | Kalroth: What do they wear, twill? |
| 08:40.00 | Kalroth | Move along, nothing to see here! |
| 08:40.32 | Depherios | well |
| 08:40.34 | Cairenn | Shadowd: apparently, if Kalroth has his way, they won't wear anything |
| 08:40.34 | Depherios | textual |
| 08:40.35 | Violentnight | lol |
| 08:40.35 | Depherios | underwear |
| 08:40.37 | Depherios | ... |
| 08:40.39 | krka | i am not wearing any underwear! |
| 08:40.44 | End-wafflehat | tmi |
| 08:40.52 | Kalroth | I'm not wearing anything either, joy! |
| 08:40.56 | Cairenn | I am not wearing any either |
| 08:41.07 | Kalroth | ! |
| 08:41.11 | krka | in my morning robe atm |
| 08:41.12 | Violentnight | it's so much hotter when Cairenn says it |
| 08:41.20 | Kalroth | Violentnight: That hurts :( |
| 08:41.37 | Violentnight | hehe ^_^ |
| 08:41.41 | krka | yeah, i am offended :(/ |
| 08:42.02 | Violentnight | well.. I'm not wearing any pants |
| 08:42.07 | Violentnight | so umm............ joy! |
| 08:42.21 | Kalroth | Violentnight: Hah, I'm at work and still not wearing anything! |
| 08:42.29 | End-wafflehat | I AM wearing pants, and I'm damn proud of myself for it |
| 08:43.18 | Wobin_ | rare occasion? |
| 08:43.35 | End-wafflehat | no, I'm just normally a proud person apparently? |
| 08:43.38 | Cairenn | question for you guys - given the forum support and now the portals ... do you still want users to be able to leave comments on the file download page, or would it be better if we turned those off? |
| 08:44.14 | Violentnight | I think the more options available to the community, the better--just so long as the author is given proper notice of the message and a link to go straight to it |
| 08:44.38 | End-wafflehat | I dunno |
| 08:44.47 | End-wafflehat | isn't my input great? |
| 08:44.48 | Cairenn | just food for thought |
| 08:45.26 | End-wafflehat | anyways, I'm going to bed so that I -might- make it to my annoyingly early class tomarrow |
| 08:45.33 | Wobin_ | I guess, if you want to shift the focus from the addons to the authors, you could disable/move the comments on the addons page |
| 08:45.39 | Cairenn | night End-wafflehat |
| 08:45.49 | Cairenn | btw, loving your hats these days, too cute for words |
| 08:45.53 | End-sleep | hehe |
| 08:46.02 | Cairenn | sweet dreams :) |
| 08:46.16 | End-sleep | night! |
| 08:46.34 | Wobin_ | I guess so far, focus has been on the addons specifically, not on the authors themselves |
| 08:47.23 | Cairenn | which viewpoint is, in my opinion, not the way it should be |
| 08:47.25 | Cairenn | but that's me |
| 08:48.30 | Wobin_ | I often tend to trace down authors other addons if I find that what they do works well for me |
| 08:48.38 | Wobin_ | Fizzwidget as a good example of such |
| 08:48.38 | Tem | hrm |
| 08:48.44 | Tem | Cairenn: I think that's a good idea |
| 08:49.25 | Cairenn | mayhap I'll put it up for a vote on the site after a few days, in the dev section of the forums |
| 08:49.40 | Tem | But if that approach is taken, the addon page should have links in easy to see places that link to the bug report, feature request, and feedback pages of the portal |
| 08:49.52 | Kalroth | Wobin_: People don't care about authors, they just want addons :) |
| 08:49.55 | Cairenn | heh, we're already working on that, Tem :) |
| 08:50.01 | Violentnight | It'd be nice if the focus was on the authors instead of the addons, but it's not really that easy. The majority people--especially those that just use addons and don't care how they work--aren't going to care who made something. Trying to force them to become familar with the people behind the addons may not turn out so well. |
| 08:50.03 | Wobin_ | Kalroth: I know =) |
| 08:50.04 | Cairenn | Kalroth: and that's MY point ... that's wrong |
| 08:50.12 | Kalroth | Cairenn: Well it's the truth |
| 08:50.34 | Violentnight | Can anyone here name 10 people that worked on their favorite game? |
| 08:50.44 | Wobin_ | Well disabling the comments on the addon page itself wouldn't stop people from finding the addon |
| 08:50.50 | Kalroth | Good point, Violentnight :) |
| 08:50.55 | Cairenn | it may be the truth, but anyone that knows me knows that I have always been very much in support of the AUTHORS |
| 08:51.09 | Wobin_ | If they're interested enough to make a comment, then they wouldn't mind clicking on the link to get to the comments sectoin of the portal |
| 08:51.21 | Cairenn | Wobin_: precisely, and the forums are still there too |
| 08:51.21 | Wobin_ | (or bugreport etc) |
| 08:51.38 | Cairenn | for those authors that don't want to enable a portal |
| 08:51.45 | Cairenn | or that want to have both |
| 08:51.52 | Kalroth | Cairenn: nono, I'm not dissing you silly! I'm just saying that players in general doesn't care about John Doe, they just want their BG cheating/haxing/etc addon so they can win again! :) |
| 08:52.01 | Wobin_ | It would make it easier to show off what other addons the author has too |
| 08:52.02 | Violentnight | Cairenn: I totally understand and agree, but such a change isn't going to be quickly accepted by the community as a whole. It would need to be very gradual--and even then, the old way of doings things should be kept intact. Otherwise, you'll segregate your 'customer base' |
| 08:52.04 | Cairenn | oh, I know |
| 08:52.11 | Wobin_ | (if the focus changed) |
| 08:53.23 | Cairenn | re what I was saying, look at the fact that I spent my own cash getting my hands on a CD of mods that someone was selling on eBay, in order to have the actual physical proof, so that we could get him shut down |
| 08:53.26 | Violentnight | If WoWInterface is meant to be a place for developers to meet and exchange ideas and yadda yadda then it's a great approach. But if you want to be accessible to as many people as possible, then it's going to be a hard battle doing it that way. |
| 08:53.39 | Cairenn | it's both, Violentnight |
| 08:54.30 | Cairenn | but reality is, if there weren't mod devs, there wouldn't *be* a community |
| 08:54.44 | Violentnight | Then back to my "doing it both ways" idea... perhaps create an option that allows people to use either an "Addon-focused view" or an "Author-focused view" |
| 08:54.47 | Cairenn | YOU guys are the ones that need the support |
| 08:55.07 | Wobin_ | It's not that they're going to cut off the list of addons on the front page, or searching by addon, just that if there are things that can be done to encourage viewers to see the author behind the addon, that'd be good |
| 08:55.11 | Cairenn | again, though, this is simply my opinion, my viewpoint |
| 08:55.46 | Wobin_ | centralising the comments/bugreports/faq/etc like the portal does will help |
| 08:56.01 | Violentnight | If you create a poll, the outcome is going to be influenced greatly depending on where you put the poll and how many 'common' people actually participate in the forums as opposed to just grabbing their files and leaving. |
| 08:56.15 | Wobin_ | there just needs to be... a natural progression towards clicking on the portal link |
| 08:56.22 | Cairenn | I'm asking the *authors* what they want |
| 08:57.25 | Cairenn | one of the most common complaints I hear from authors is that they get sick of having to look in X number of places to find all the feedback |
| 08:57.34 | Wobin_ | Although, on one hand, I'm not sure that disabling comments on the addon will work ... I've often used comments I've read on an addon to choose whether to download it or not |
| 08:57.40 | Cairenn | I'm suggesting that perhaps we remove one of the places |
| 08:58.03 | Cairenn | Wobin_: that is a good point, from an end-user's point of view |
| 08:58.11 | Violentnight | I know... I'm just trying to point out some of the outcomes to help people make an informed decision. It's like at school a couple months ago, they held a poll to see how many people would want to have the campus open 24/7 and, of course, almost everyone said yes... but few of them realized that doing so would require raising tuition to pay for it. |
| 08:58.13 | Cairenn | and something to be considered |
| 08:58.24 | Wobin_ | Maybe have the comments visible, but if you want to leave a comment, it direct you to the portal |
| 08:58.49 | Wobin_ | So the comments are seen in both places (portal and addon) |
| 08:58.55 | Violentnight | Personally, I would want my addons to serve the community, so I would want the site to be as friendly towards the community as possible. I'd expect other authors to be knowledgable enough to take the few extra steps to do something. |
| 08:59.37 | Cairenn | anyway, not going to be turning them off tomorrow or anything, just something I thought I'd toss out there for you guys to mull over, see what people think |
| 08:59.38 | Tem | Hey feedback went *poof* |
| 08:59.56 | Cairenn | Tem: ? |
| 09:00.02 | Violentnight | ditto |
| 09:00.16 | Tem | When I first say them |
| 09:00.22 | Tem | s/say/saw/ |
| 09:00.32 | Tem | there was a feedback option |
| 09:00.45 | Cairenn | huh? |
| 09:00.48 | Violentnight | define: them |
| 09:00.50 | Cairenn | on the portals, you mean? |
| 09:00.53 | Tem | I guess when he created my feature request option, he removed feedback |
| 09:01.21 | Tem | but now there is way for a user to leave a general comment that is neither a bug report or a feature request |
| 09:01.21 | Dolby-wowi | yep, was removed since it was kinda redundant after adding the feature request option |
| 09:01.38 | Tem | oh hey Dolby-wowi I didn't see you here |
| 09:01.45 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15873&postcount=16 |
| 09:01.58 | Dolby-wowi | feedback is left for the download comments |
| 09:02.04 | Cairenn | hehehehe Dolby, I just linked to the actual post re that |
| 09:02.26 | Tem | sounds good to me |
| 09:02.52 | Cairenn | Tem: and hence the forum support remaining, plus the discussion about comments on the file download page itself as well |
| 09:03.08 | Tem | but we just have to make it more clear to users that the download comments are not the place to make feature requests and bug reports |
| 09:03.20 | Tem | even though it's in huge red text, they still do it |
| 09:04.52 | Tem | so maybe that red text could be changed to read something like "This area is for general comments about the addon ONLY. If you want to leave a bug report, go [here]. If you want to make a feature request, go [here]" |
| 09:05.05 | Tem | with [here] replaced by links to the bug report and feature request pages |
| 09:05.17 | Tem | for that author |
| 09:05.20 | Dolby-wowi | I plan to add big links on the file info screen to the bug report and feature request system |
| 09:05.20 | Tem | 's portal |
| 09:05.34 | Tem | oh awesome |
| 09:05.38 | Violentnight | Since you brought it up--do we have the ability to edit/move comments about our addons or in our portals? |
| 09:05.39 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 09:06.05 | Violentnight | so when people do that, we could just move the post into the proper place (feature request/bug report) |
| 09:06.07 | Tem | I do still think that the red text before leaving a comment should have link to those pages |
| 09:06.13 | Cairenn | in the portals, yes ... in the file download section, I'm not sure - Dolby? |
| 09:06.23 | Tem | Not atm |
| 09:06.32 | Tem | but it would be a good feature |
| 09:07.12 | Tem | anyway, continuing my previous thought, it would help to steer even the laziest users in the right direction. |
| 09:07.22 | id` | Cairenn, Dolby-wowi; woot! i love it! :P |
| 09:07.24 | Dolby-wowi | no nothing really has changed to much with this in the download area. Thats what I'm working on next =) |
| 09:07.30 | Violentnight | You'd be surprised, Tem--that does require clicking a whole other link |
| 09:07.58 | Violentnight | What if when making a comment, there's a dropdown that allows you to select if it's a comment/feature request/bug report |
| 09:08.07 | Kolth | http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2693690 |
| 09:08.11 | Violentnight | And then there could still be separate links which would select the appropriate option by default |
| 09:08.17 | Cairenn | Tem, they don't click on links to go to your support threads now, what makes you think they'll click on a link to go to whichever part of your portal? |
| 09:08.51 | Violentnight | that way, when filling out the form, it's right there--they don't have to click another link or anything |
| 09:09.04 | Tem | I'm saying if it's in the red text saying DON'T POST BUGS OR SUGGESTIONS HERE!!! FOR BUGS GO [here]. FOR SUGGESTIONS GO [here] |
| 09:09.13 | Tem | it might get a few more user's attn |
| 09:09.17 | Dolby-wowi | also writeing some jave script to make the computer tell the power supply to apply the full 120v to the users keyboard if they post in the wrong area |
| 09:09.20 | Cairenn | it *might* |
| 09:09.23 | id` | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4570 |
| 09:09.23 | Dolby-wowi | err java |
| 09:09.24 | id` | neato |
| 09:09.31 | Cairenn | Dolby-wowi: hahahhaa |
| 09:09.31 | id` | this will help alot of people with visr |
| 09:09.34 | id` | visor* |
| 09:09.36 | id` | including myself |
| 09:09.36 | Tem | Dolby-wowi: that sounds awesome |
| 09:10.02 | Wobin_ | Dolby-wowi: If you can also write one that punches users in the face over the internet, I'll have your baby =) |
| 09:10.11 | Violentnight | I personally don't like having big red text for anything other than an error--it's distracting and when there's too much of it, people start to ignore it altogether |
| 09:10.11 | Dolby-wowi | lol |
| 09:10.45 | Cairenn | one of the other things that we will be adding, although it's going to be a while yet, is support for "groups" - like the Ace team, or Cosmos, or CTMod |
| 09:10.51 | Violentnight | how would my DevTools help with Visor? |
| 09:11.02 | Violentnight | Cairenn: excellent idea |
| 09:11.29 | Cairenn | yes, some of this is old news to some of you (points at FAs), but it's new to the rest :) |
| 09:12.02 | Tem | Violentnight: showing Visible and Shown are quite pointless since a frame that is Hidden cannot get mouse focus |
| 09:12.11 | id` | Cairenn: Ah so you have mods that belong to a team to develop on. nice. |
| 09:12.16 | Tem | Violentnight: unless there is another way to show your info about a frame |
| 09:12.40 | Violentnight | Tem: =P I added them when trying to figure out the difference between the two... I'll get around to toggling what properties display--eventually |
| 09:12.58 | Tem | Violentnight: well neither can be false if the frame is visible |
| 09:13.13 | Violentnight | yeah, I understand that now |
| 09:13.28 | Violentnight | hasn't been updated in a week or so |
| 09:13.37 | Tem | Visible: is visible on the screen right now. "Can you see me?" |
| 09:13.37 | Wobin_ | What -is- the difference between the two? |
| 09:13.42 | Wobin_ | Ah |
| 09:13.53 | Wobin_ | As opposed to 'offscreen' but not hidden |
| 09:13.58 | Violentnight | and IsShown() means you've called the Show() method |
| 09:14.02 | Tem | Shown: is visible /as long as my parent is visible/ |
| 09:14.19 | Tem | ie Frame2:SetParent(Frame1) |
| 09:14.24 | Tem | Frame2:Show() |
| 09:14.25 | Violentnight | visible doesn't really mean that teh user can see it.. it could be blocked or offscreen.. but it means that it's had Show() called and all of its parents have as well |
| 09:14.29 | Tem | Frame1:Hide() |
| 09:14.39 | Tem | Frame2:IsVisible() == false |
| 09:14.47 | Tem | Frame2:IsShown() == true |
| 09:15.08 | Violentnight | it's all very confusing and the less I think about it the better off I am |
| 09:15.16 | Tem | it's really quite simple |
| 09:15.28 | Violentnight | if you ignore the English of it.. yes |
| 09:15.34 | Tem | yes |
| 09:15.38 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:15.41 | Tem | the wording is confusing as hell |
| 09:15.54 | Tem | 'HasScript' is worse IMO |
| 09:16.16 | Violentnight | Tem: That's if it supports the script.. not necessarily if a function is set for it, right? |
| 09:16.25 | Tem | because it really means 'CanHaveScriptButDoesntNeccesarilyHaveOneSet' |
| 09:16.39 | Violentnight | lol yeah... Blizzard really goofed on that |
| 09:16.43 | Cairenn | it wouldn't be so that I can make sure to stealth bump my post so it remains at the top of the forum all day so everyone sees it and it doesn't get buried, nope nope |
| 09:17.05 | Violentnight | lol cute, Cairenn |
| 09:17.05 | Tem | slouken said it was a goofy name right after he did it, but it was too late |
| 09:17.12 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:17.23 | Tem | the 1.9 (or 1.8 I don't remember) freeze had already occured |
| 09:17.27 | Violentnight | SupportsScript() CanHaveScript() |
| 09:17.33 | Violentnight | freeze? |
| 09:18.14 | Tem | they freeze the code |
| 09:18.18 | Tem | at a certain point |
| 09:18.22 | Tem | no changes can be made |
| 09:19.32 | Violentnight | ahh |
| 09:19.35 | Violentnight | bummer |
| 09:19.47 | Tem | I see why, but it stinks for things like this |
| 09:19.47 | Cairenn | not really |
| 09:19.56 | Violentnight | and yet they reserve the right to change any part of the code at any time without notification to anyone... hehe |
| 09:19.57 | Cairenn | otherwise, it'd never get out of QA and go live |
| 09:20.06 | Tem | and Cairenn wins |
| 09:20.24 | Cairenn | they have to freeze it at some point, push it live, then move on to the next stage |
| 09:21.04 | Violentnight | Yeah... but I Think you should be able to melt it down to make adjustments and refreeze it in extreme situations |
| 09:21.35 | Violentnight | They could even make a duplicate method called SupportsScript and then deprecate HasScript in order to avoid breaking any current code |
| 09:21.40 | Cairenn | what constitutes an "extreme" situation? where do they set the bar? |
| 09:21.49 | Cairenn | and if they set it "here", why not "here"? |
| 09:21.57 | Violentnight | What any reasonable person (namely, me) constitutes as extreme ^_^ |
| 09:22.10 | Cairenn | and if "here", then why not "here", and ..... |
| 09:22.16 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:22.30 | Cairenn | and well, okay, we'll make an exception this time |
| 09:22.43 | Cairenn | so why not make an exception this time? |
| 09:22.45 | Cairenn | and |
| 09:22.46 | Cairenn | and |
| 09:22.47 | Cairenn | and |
| 09:23.01 | Cairenn | they have to freeze it at some point, push it live, then move on to the next stage |
| 09:23.03 | id` | http://industrial.wowinterface.com/portal.php |
| 09:23.04 | id` | :-) |
| 09:23.05 | Violentnight | With something like HasScript(), I don't see any reason for anyone to not want to deprecate it and make a replacement method |
| 09:23.16 | id` | With only one addon lol >_> |
| 09:23.23 | id` | i promise ill get more soon :X |
| 09:23.32 | Violentnight | industrial? is that what id` stands for? |
| 09:24.07 | id` | yes Violentnight |
| 09:25.14 | Tem | lol! " If not, could someone direct me to a definitive list of all WoW macros?" |
| 09:26.01 | Tem | god people are ignorant |
| 09:26.21 | krka | the lua grammar and a list of the available functions would be a definite list |
| 09:26.31 | Violentnight | not ignorant.. just stupid... =) |
| 09:26.53 | Cairenn | I believe Tem was using the word in the proper context |
| 09:27.16 | Cairenn | as opposed to the commonly used slang meaning of it |
| 09:27.54 | Tem | I think "stupid" also applies to this particular person, but I was talking in general. And in general, the people aren't stupid, just ignorant. |
| 09:28.15 | Violentnight | fair enough |
| 09:28.31 | Tem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=315566&p=1&tmp=1#post315566 |
| 09:28.53 | id` | hah |
| 09:28.54 | Tem | should I edit out my reference to the GM as a "trained monkey"? |
| 09:28.55 | id` | tem |
| 09:29.02 | id` | your fault for even browsing the official forums |
| 09:29.06 | id` | :p |
| 09:29.26 | Cairenn | ummm, might be politic to do so, yeah |
| 09:29.34 | Tem | it's kind of rude, but IMO they have earned it by being so damned misinformed |
| 09:29.46 | Tem | all the freaking time |
| 09:29.52 | Violentnight | yeah.. I've almost completely stopped going to the official forums since Cairenn invited me here... I can't stand how people ask the same dumb questions everyday |
| 09:30.26 | Violentnight | Is there any feeling as great as reaching the boarding pad just as the airship is pulling up? I don't think so. |
| 09:30.27 | Cairenn | Tem: but are they misinformed, or following protocol? |
| 09:31.02 | Tem | Cairenn: that's possibly a good point, but I highly doubt it |
| 09:31.09 | Cairenn | don't |
| 09:31.20 | id` | Tem: love your reply tho |
| 09:31.22 | Cairenn | (as in, don't doubt it) |
| 09:31.38 | Tem | Cairenn: there are often times that they don't even know the difference between a UI addon and a hack program that could get you banned |
| 09:31.47 | Tem | that's not protocol |
| 09:31.51 | Tem | that's ignorance |
| 09:32.38 | Cairenn | true enough, that's ignorance, but I suggest that protocol tells them that they are *required* to ask if the user is using mods and request that they disable them as the first step to debugging |
| 09:32.52 | Tem | I can understand that |
| 09:33.18 | Tem | but saying something that is clearly impossible to do in a macro is a macro would not fall under protocol |
| 09:33.25 | Tem | anyway, I've edited my responce |
| 09:33.35 | Cairenn | agreed |
| 09:33.37 | Tem | s/responce/response/ |
| 09:34.05 | Cairenn | (reminds Tem that she loves playing devil's advocate, in order to make people *think*) |
| 09:34.14 | Tem | hehe |
| 09:34.24 | Tem | I admit, I hadn't thought of it that way before |
| 09:34.48 | Tem | that's a horrible word |
| 09:34.56 | Cairenn | hehehe, isn't it though? |
| 09:35.04 | Cairenn | better? |
| 09:35.44 | Tem | it's like you hacked off part of "smooch" and amputated the "gle" from "snugle" and sewed them togeather in a frankenstien of words. |
| 09:36.18 | Cairenn | I don't know why I've even started using it, it's something a friend of mine used to say all the time back in EQ |
| 09:36.32 | Violentnight | I like the word smoogle.. in fact, I think I've used it before. On a side note, did you guys know that in certain languages, like Japanese, it's impossible to "make-up" words? |
| 09:36.46 | Cairenn | really? |
| 09:36.47 | Tem | ? |
| 09:36.50 | Tem | good lord! it's almost 4 am! |
| 09:36.57 | Tem | I have an exam at 9 |
| 09:37.01 | Cairenn | GAH! |
| 09:37.03 | Violentnight | what subject? |
| 09:37.06 | Tem | bio |
| 09:37.20 | Violentnight | oooh bio... hahahaha *points* |
| 09:37.46 | Tem | sorry I couldn't help it |
| 09:37.55 | Violentnight | is it multiple choice? I find the ABA-CA-DABA approach works well ^_^ |
| 09:38.08 | Tem | lol |
| 09:38.13 | Cairenn | go go, sleep! go! |
| 09:38.14 | Tem | it should be multiple choice |
| 09:38.17 | Tem | but I'm not sure |
| 09:38.22 | Tem | either way, it's going to be easy |
| 09:38.34 | Cairenn | multiple guess is good |
| 09:38.38 | Tem | indeed |
| 09:38.40 | Tem | anyway, |
| 09:38.42 | Tem | Tem out |
| 09:38.44 | Violentnight | that's good... I hated Bio--but then, I took it at a catholic school |
| 09:38.51 | Cairenn | sweet dreams Tem :) |
| 09:38.57 | Tem|sleep | nn Cairenn |
| 09:38.57 | Cairenn | and good luck on the exam :) |
| 09:39.02 | Violentnight | I started Chem at a Catholic school and sucked ass.. then transferred to a public school halfway through and got an A |
| 09:39.06 | Tem|sleep | good luck with your thread, and thanks :) |
| 09:39.10 | Violentnight | gl, Tem... ttyl! |
| 09:39.51 | Violentnight | Isn't thottbot just the best? |
| 09:40.46 | krka | me too |
| 09:40.55 | krka | except i can never spell it right |
| 09:41.00 | krka | so i never find it and give up :P |
| 09:41.06 | Cairenn | lol |
| 09:41.28 | Cairenn | http://wow.allakhazam.com/ |
| 09:41.37 | Cairenn | bookmarked ftw ;) |
| 09:42.04 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:42.07 | Violentnight | ftw? |
| 09:42.12 | Cairenn | for the win |
| 09:42.16 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:42.18 | krka | just need to find myself an extremely lightweight browser so i can surf that while playing |
| 09:42.24 | Cairenn | and, shoot me now for actually using that stupid ass expression |
| 09:42.32 | Violentnight | *bang pow* to the moon! |
| 09:42.34 | Kolth | being shot is ftw, Cair |
| 09:42.36 | krka | using FTW FTW! |
| 09:42.37 | Violentnight | krka: firefox? |
| 09:42.54 | krka | uhm... firefox uses heaps of memory for me |
| 09:42.58 | Kolth | ^^ |
| 09:42.58 | krka | it really hurts WoW |
| 09:43.16 | krka | i normally use links but then there's no graphics |
| 09:43.32 | krka | and i mostly use alla for the maps |
| 09:44.28 | Violentnight | Alla looks like a different interface for teh same exact info.. hehe |
| 09:45.00 | Cairenn | well, they both pull their info from the same place, so not surprising that the info is the same ... |
| 09:45.01 | Violentnight | krka: really? meh... I can run WoW, Photoshop, a text editor, have 3-4 open folders and 10 web pages and still run fine ^_^ |
| 09:46.03 | Cairenn | Tem! |
| 09:46.08 | Cairenn | GO TO BED~ |
| 09:46.09 | Cairenn | ! |
| 09:46.12 | Kolth | Alla usually has more info than Thottbot but I prefer Thottbot's interface. |
| 09:46.31 | Cairenn | you're as bad as I am, sheesh! |
| 09:46.37 | Violentnight | lol |
| 09:46.37 | Tem|sleep | I find that thott is faster most times |
| 09:46.46 | krka | i only have 512 meg ram |
| 09:46.46 | Kolth | It's less of a page to load, that's for sure. |
| 09:46.52 | Tem|sleep | but alla almost always has more info |
| 09:46.56 | Kolth | And Alla feels slow too |
| 09:47.01 | Violentnight | krka: get a gig.. you'll love it |
| 09:47.09 | krka | yeah i know |
| 09:47.10 | Kolth | krka: Wow! I have 1024 and I run out of Memory like mad. |
| 09:47.14 | Violentnight | 2x512 ram cards |
| 09:47.14 | Tem|sleep | and yes thott's page is much cleaner than alla's |
| 09:47.17 | krka | costs money though |
| 09:47.17 | Tem|sleep | which I like |
| 09:47.27 | krka | 512 meg is enough for wow + xchat + azureus |
| 09:47.29 | Violentnight | krka: whore yourself out--that's how I got mine |
| 09:47.34 | Kolth | krka: Do you instance much? |
| 09:47.38 | krka | not enough if i start firefox too |
| 09:47.40 | Kolth | I can barely run MC with a GB |
| 09:47.44 | krka | yeah, a bit |
| 09:47.47 | Violentnight | omg you're running azureus with WoW? .. and you think Firefox is a memory hog? |
| 09:47.51 | krka | i am only level 37 though |
| 09:47.54 | krka | so only 5 man |
| 09:47.58 | Kolth | ah, you won't be able to raid instance |
| 09:48.07 | krka | azureus really isn't so bad |
| 09:48.32 | Kolth | It's not. |
| 09:48.40 | Kolth | muTorrent is wonderous though |
| 09:48.57 | krka | yeah, but that doesn't run on linux |
| 09:49.00 | Violentnight | Azureus is the best app I've found for torrents, but it uses way too much memory, has a slow interface, adn completley hogs my internet connection |
| 09:49.12 | Kolth | Vio: You can fix the hogging part. |
| 09:49.15 | krka | Kolth, why would raid instance use much more memory? |
| 09:49.18 | Violentnight | Kolth: where do you get that? I've heard good thing of it |
| 09:49.30 | Kolth | krka: More to load and render |
| 09:49.45 | Kolth | Vio: http://utorrent.com/ |
| 09:49.53 | krka | because of the larger amount of units on screen? |
| 09:49.57 | Violentnight | omg Alla gave me a pop-up.. curse you! |
| 09:50.09 | Kolth | krka: There's just more of everything. |
| 09:50.11 | Codayus | I used Azureus for a while, but uTorrent is better I think. |
| 09:50.18 | krka | Cairenn, it doesn't really have a negative impact on WoW |
| 09:50.26 | Kolth | Cair is a sillyface! |
| 09:50.29 | Cairenn | that isn't my point, and I'm not asking |
| 09:50.38 | Kolth | I download podcasts! |
| 09:50.53 | krka | no, you were *not* asking |
| 09:50.55 | krka | :P |
| 09:51.10 | Codayus | That being said, I find Firefox tends to hog system resources like crazy. |
| 09:51.13 | krka | i download pr0^H^H^Hlinux distributions |
| 09:51.30 | Cairenn | Kolth: my being a sillyface is old news, you're just figuring this out now? and uh huh, sure, right, that's what you're downloading, yup, I believe you, really I do .... |
| 09:52.04 | Kolth | Cairenn, ay too much memory, has a slow interface, adn completley hogs my internet connection |
| 09:52.06 | Kolth | er |
| 09:52.09 | Cairenn | well, at least *one* person in the channel is honest ;) |
| 09:52.13 | Kolth | Cair, http://twitorrents.com/bm/ |
| 09:52.14 | krka | slow interface doesn't really matter |
| 09:52.34 | krka | if someone could point me to a better linux torrent client I'd be happy! |
| 09:52.34 | Violentnight | I'm always honest, bebe.. yeah! |
| 09:53.10 | Kolth | krka: You run WoW under Linux? |
| 09:53.19 | krka | yay... i hacked no-ip to update with the correct ip |
| 09:53.26 | krka | ugly ugly hack though |
| 09:53.28 | krka | yes Kolth |
| 09:53.44 | Cairenn | oh lord, here we go with the linux vs windows vs mac |
| 09:53.45 | Kolth | What brand of video card? |
| 09:53.48 | Violentnight | WoW is multi-platform |
| 09:53.59 | krka | Nvidia something :) |
| 09:53.59 | Kolth | Cairenn is so, so wrong. |
| 09:54.05 | Violentnight | Cairenn: mac? what're you talking about? How dare you mention such a thing! |
| 09:54.22 | Cairenn | don't say that when AnduinLothar is here |
| 09:54.23 | Codayus | I know people who got it running with an ATI, and I...hrm...sort of did. Not really playably though. |
| 09:54.23 | Kolth | I need to talk to someone that runs WoW under Linux and Bela isn't here right now. |
| 09:54.24 | krka | zomg linux SI MUCH BETTAR!!! |
| 09:54.50 | Kolth | What distro do you use? |
| 09:54.53 | krka | well, i can try |
| 09:54.56 | krka | debian |
| 09:55.13 | Kolth | I was working on it but I got stuck at 'direct rendering: disabled' |
| 09:55.38 | krka | hm |
| 09:55.44 | krka | sounds like glx wasn't working |
| 09:55.47 | krka | maybe |
| 09:55.51 | Violentnight | Mac is superior for graphics development--but that's about it. And Mac is currently advertising their deal with intel to put intel proecssors into mac computers, which is going to take away the last bit of uniqueness that Mac had. So basically... my schoolmates and I are predicting that Macintosh is going to crash and burn in the coming years. |
| 09:55.52 | Kolth | Yes it was not. |
| 09:55.58 | krka | it was a real pain fixing all that |
| 09:56.06 | Kolth | Yep. |
| 09:56.15 | Kolth | It was also the first time I ran Linux. |
| 09:56.21 | Kolth | Good learning experience but hefty task. |
| 09:56.21 | krka | you're running X with nvidia drivers? |
| 09:56.30 | Kolth | Xorg w/ ATI |
| 09:56.41 | krka | well, the only real problem i had with linux is graphics |
| 09:56.48 | Kolth | Same. |
| 09:56.51 | krka | and that's only because they won't release source for drivers |
| 09:57.12 | krka | so nvidia/atis fault, not the linux maintainers |
| 09:57.22 | krka | ATI is even worse than nvidia, afaik |
| 09:57.42 | Kolth | Yeah. I got one step away from WoW under Linux. |
| 09:57.53 | Kolth | Bela went through his bout and won, it would seem. |
| 09:58.05 | krka | he uses ati too? |
| 09:58.09 | Kolth | I forget. |
| 09:58.27 | Kolth | I also haven't checked the state of WINE so who knows where it is. |
| 09:58.42 | krka | i use cedega |
| 09:59.05 | Kolth | boggles* |
| 09:59.34 | Codayus | kergoth uses ATI, and he apparently had good luck. |
| 09:59.43 | Kolth | thanks Codayus |
| 09:59.45 | Codayus | Of course, he doesn't hang out in here any more. Not since...the incident... |
| 09:59.50 | Codayus | But we don't talk about that. |
| 09:59.51 | Violentnight | it uses way too much memory and I've had alot of problems with it and jEdit |
| 10:00.21 | Cairenn | Codayus: >< |
| 10:00.28 | Kolth | I must've missed something while moving states :) |
| 10:00.53 | Violentnight | and I've had alot of problems with Azureus and Java |
| 10:00.59 | Kolth | Like what? |
| 10:01.08 | Codayus | I use, IIRC, a very similar ATI card to kergoth, and I got WoW sort of running, but it was buggy, unstable, slow, and lagged badly whenever I targeted someone. |
| 10:01.25 | Codayus | Kergoth apparently gets BETTER performance in linux though, so... <shrug> |
| 10:01.26 | Violentnight | random crashing.. failure to save information... complicated installations/updates that turn my hair grey |
| 10:01.39 | Kolth | Well, Violentnight, all that is user error (your error). |
| 10:02.13 | Kolth | Codayus: From what I hear, the only remaining bug in WoW under Linux is that you don't get your target's selected aura. |
| 10:02.22 | Codayus | Ah, yes, virtual machines. Write once, run nowehere. :-P (Mind you, I never had that sort of problem with Azureus. It was just a bit bloated.) |
| 10:02.27 | Violentnight | Azurues is only using 1844KB of memory at the moment.. but Java takes on an additional 75 and rising... firefox with one window and no webpage is just 22,508 |
| 10:02.59 | Kalroth | so Azureus is using 77mb :) |
| 10:03.02 | Violentnight | up to 85k memory on Java now |
| 10:03.04 | Kolth | I like(d) Azureus because it's well-written |
| 10:03.15 | Kolth | but muTorrent seems as well-written if not more. |
| 10:03.28 | Violentnight | 85,000KB.. 86Megs.. yeah.. hehe |
| 10:03.48 | Kolth | Not to bicker, but that's only 83MB |
| 10:04.18 | Violentnight | psh.. if I say that's 86 megs and firefox is 24 megs then it's relatively the same ratio =P |
| 10:04.23 | Kalroth | The main problem with Java is that it's another layer on an existing layer on a layer on hardware :) |
| 10:04.44 | Kolth | Truth be that, Kal |
| 10:05.15 | Violentnight | Kalroth: yeah... I've never seen a good application of java that I really liked outside of a webspace app |
| 10:05.25 | Kolth | Eclipse? |
| 10:05.50 | Violentnight | loading the WoW homepage boosts firefox from 3megs... and Azureus/Java is now up to 105-106 |
| 10:06.09 | Violentnight | er.. boosts it up 3 megs.. 23 to 26 |
| 10:06.55 | Kalroth | personally I prefer uTorrent though |
| 10:07.05 | krka | what incident? |
| 10:07.14 | krka | it's µTorrent! |
| 10:07.24 | Kalroth | "What are µTorrent's system requirements?" - "It works on as weak a system as Windows 95 on a 486 with 14MiB of RAM (with the Winsock2 update)" |
| 10:07.29 | Violentnight | Kolth: Looked over Eclipse one for it's Lua editor, but I didn't bother--seemed like a big convulated mess of core structure nad addons |
| 10:07.29 | Violentnight | 10 more megs and Azureus is going to beat World of Warcraft.. lol |
| 10:07.38 | Kalroth | I don't have that frigging character, krka :P |
| 10:07.42 | Violentnight | Kalroth: lol nice |
| 10:07.50 | krka | alt m for me |
| 10:07.55 | krka | alt-gr m even |
| 10:08.01 | Kalroth | µTorrent! |
| 10:08.02 | Kalroth | thanks! |
| 10:08.10 | Kalroth | how r µ 2day! |
| 10:08.13 | Kolth | uh |
| 10:08.14 | Violentnight | any idea why Azureus/Java continues to climb in memory usage? |
| 10:08.27 | krka | are you using utf-8 by any chancE? |
| 10:08.29 | Kalroth | Violentnight: page caching, etc |
| 10:08.35 | Kalroth | lemme check |
| 10:08.47 | Violentnight | krka: Ermm.. I dunno. |
| 10:08.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 10:08.56 | Kalroth | I was :p |
| 10:08.58 | krka | was asking Kalroth |
| 10:09.00 | Kalroth | µ better? |
| 10:09.03 | Kolth | much, kal :P |
| 10:09.06 | krka | yes |
| 10:09.16 | Kalroth | xchat defaults to URF-8 :( |
| 10:09.59 | Kalroth | UTF too .. |
| 10:10.02 | Violentnight | oh.. hehe |
| 10:10.16 | id` | i see people atlking about encoding everywhere, but i don't know a thing about it.. never had any problems EVER with weirch characters |
| 10:10.23 | Violentnight | wow.. I just went into WoW to get onto a windrider and came back and it spiked from 118 to 190 |
| 10:10.54 | Kolth | I think we have the point, Violentnight. |
| 10:11.09 | Violentnight | lol.. never! |
| 10:11.11 | Kalroth | memory usage when you got free physical memory is almost irrelevant, it's when you're low on physical memory that it really matters |
| 10:12.04 | Violentnight | yes.. well.. with all my porn, I am rather low on physical memory ^_^ |
| 10:12.11 | Kalroth | also just using windows task manager or ps in linux isn't precise enough |
| 10:12.32 | krka | kinda tricky to get hold of the actual usage |
| 10:12.44 | krka | since stuff is shared, and not even used et.c. |
| 10:12.49 | Kalroth | yup, there's usually a lot of shared memory .. or paged memory |
| 10:13.28 | Violentnight | oh yes.. the shared and paged memory.. mmhmm.. mmhmm.. |
| 10:13.42 | Kalroth | a more fair value would be unique memory, eg. memory blocks where it's only the application that got handles to |
| 10:13.55 | Kalroth | that'd exclude shared memory that's also used by other applications |
| 10:14.12 | krka | time to watch some futurama and get less sick |
| 10:14.21 | Kalroth | mentally? |
| 10:14.36 | krka | physically, in this case |
| 10:14.42 | Cairenn | :( |
| 10:14.47 | Cairenn | feel better krka |
| 10:14.52 | Kalroth | well rather that than mentally |
| 10:15.31 | Violentnight | I should be off to bed too.. g'night everybody! |
| 10:15.59 | Cairenn | night Violentnight |
| 10:24.38 | Kolth | Yay for getting Chats on Gmail |
| 10:29.52 | Kalroth | woot |
| 10:29.55 | Kalroth | chats? |
| 10:30.14 | Kolth | GTalk inside Gmail |
| 10:30.56 | Kalroth | ah |
| 10:31.19 | Kalroth | You are currently using 0 MB (0%) of your 2692 MB. :( |
| 10:31.31 | id` | :p |
| 10:33.18 | Kalroth | hooray, I got a free beta testers only key for irth online |
| 10:33.24 | Kalroth | I wonder what it is |
| 10:33.30 | Kolth | hah |
| 10:35.41 | Kalroth | ooh, chicks in bikini'ish plate armor with big boobies, worth checking out |
| 10:35.43 | krka | i am the greetest! |
| 10:35.48 | krka | futurama r00lz |
| 10:36.10 | Kalroth | word! |
| 10:36.47 | Kalroth | Cairenn: You're supposed to sleep and not lurk! |
| 10:36.57 | Cairenn | who said I was sleeping? |
| 10:37.39 | Cairenn | I'm waiting for the servers to go down, so I can not stealth bump my thread on the forum to make sure it is at the top when no one else can log in |
| 10:38.12 | Kalroth | lol |
| 10:38.30 | Cairenn | then I can go pass out for a few hours |
| 10:38.49 | Kalroth | I knew it, you're a crooked and scheming woman! |
| 10:39.30 | Cairenn | but, why? |
| 10:39.38 | Cairenn | I said it's so that I can *not* stealth bump |
| 10:39.51 | Kalroth | oh, my bad, sorry |
| 10:40.08 | Cairenn | sheesh |
| 10:40.28 | Kalroth | Well you're a female, it's quite natural to make such assumptions! |
| 10:40.47 | Cairenn | >< |
| 10:43.50 | Kolth | Well, you're male, it's quite natural to make such assumptions about women :) |
| 10:44.30 | Kolth | Any time I can lend my keen eye! |
| 10:45.43 | Kalroth | What the! |
| 10:45.51 | Kalroth | You traitor! |
| 10:46.30 | Cairenn | awwwww, poor baby |
| 10:46.47 | Kalroth | See, this was a part of your evil scheme too! |
| 10:47.09 | Kalroth | Although the cuddling is ok, but still |
| 10:47.09 | Cairenn | well pardon me |
| 10:47.18 | Kalroth | Nonono |
| 10:47.28 | Kalroth | the cuddling is ok, if it's a non-evil cuddle |
| 10:47.35 | Kalroth | evil cuddles are bad though |
| 10:48.56 | Kalroth | Not many are aware of them |
| 10:49.06 | Kalroth | But they're out there, just waiting to cuddle someone |
| 10:49.30 | Cairenn | oh dear |
| 10:49.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge futr-sleep (n=not@port0152-adv-adsl.cwjamaica.com) |
| 10:49.53 | Kalroth | Yes, must get more coffee. |
| 10:56.51 | Kalroth | http://www.b3tards.com/uploads/SHEEPEST.jpg :D |
| 10:57.42 | Wobin_ | I completley forgot that it's tuesdat |
| 10:57.45 | Wobin_ | er dat |
| 10:57.48 | Wobin_ | *sob* |
| 10:57.50 | Kalroth | day? :P |
| 10:57.58 | Wobin_ | Thass the bunny |
| 11:05.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhair1 (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 11:08.23 | Cairenn | okay, would someone (from the NA community) that isn't currently logged in to the Blizz forums mind trying to log in, please? |
| 11:09.06 | Cairenn | (if anyone else from the NA community is still stupidly awake like me, that is) |
| 11:12.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@pool018.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 11:13.33 | Cairenn | Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? |
| 11:18.05 | Wobin_ | Log in? |
| 11:18.19 | Cairenn | all sorted out, thanks anyway |
| 11:18.41 | Wobin_ | second in line =) |
| 11:31.48 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (i=user@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 11:43.19 | id` | SELECT name from users INNER JOIN favorites ON favorites.user_id = users.id INNER JOIN interfaces ON favorites.interface_id = interfaces.id WHERE (interfaces.id = 4564) |
| 11:43.28 | id` | i wanna see who has my addon as a favorite |
| 11:43.37 | id` | so i can pester them with questions on how to make it better |
| 11:43.37 | id` | haha |
| 11:43.38 | id` | xD |
| 11:43.44 | id` | (just kidding, btw) |
| 11:47.45 | id` | aw cmon, no-one know SQL in here? |
| 11:55.51 | Wobin_ | shenme? |
| 11:58.09 | Kalroth | subselects are more efficient if you only do identity comparisons :p |
| 11:59.54 | Wobin_ | Ah, but are we dealing with a huge number of results? =P |
| 12:00.25 | Kalroth | hahaha |
| 12:00.40 | Kalroth | "0 results." |
| 12:04.05 | id` | :p |
| 12:18.36 | Wobin_ | Well, indy, you can see how many have set you as favourite, just not who... |
| 12:43.15 | krka | do we have any ETA on 1.10? |
| 12:58.27 | id` | Wobin_: yep |
| 12:58.57 | id` | wish that '3' was clickable |
| 12:58.59 | id` | :p |
| 13:01.19 | id` | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16187#post16187 |
| 13:02.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=wereHams@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 13:04.02 | wereHamster | Cairenn... I love you so much.. the new author portal is great :) .. I'm moving my addon development from curse-gaming to wowinterface.. |
| 13:05.29 | id` | wereHamster: please od so |
| 13:05.36 | id` | I have started my own |
| 13:05.43 | id` | http://industrial.wowinterface.com |
| 13:05.47 | id` | 13:59 < id`> wish that '3' was clickable |
| 13:05.49 | id` | oops |
| 13:05.54 | id` | i mean |
| 13:05.56 | id` | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16187#post16187 |
| 13:05.57 | id` | :p |
| 13:07.54 | wereHamster | I don't know whether http://shag.wowinterface.com will insult anyone.. :-/ |
| 13:08.13 | id` | haha |
| 13:08.26 | id` | cool :D |
| 13:08.41 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=wereHams@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 13:08.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=wereHams@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 13:10.33 | id` | wereHamster: Nice addon. It's just that i don't approve of using the chat to share data. |
| 13:11.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=wereHams@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 13:11.42 | wereHamster | you don't have to share informations.. |
| 13:13.10 | wereHamster | the main goal was to make a automatic (zero-configuration, as opposed to CTRA requires the leader to broadcast the channel name) channel-addon that could be used within a raid and the guild.. |
| 13:13.43 | id` | but, there's already a 'raid' and 'guild' channel difference, they even have a different color by default. |
| 13:14.51 | wereHamster | The channels are hidden, not visible to the user, like the CTRA channel.. |
| 13:15.49 | id` | yes, so what data goes over the channels? |
| 13:16.00 | wereHamster | none so far |
| 13:16.14 | wereHamster | you first have to create a module that sends/recieves data |
| 13:16.59 | id` | Let me ask it differently, What use is it to make an addon on wich other addons build to send and receive data on channels 'invisible' to the user? |
| 13:19.32 | wereHamster | Each addon uses its own channel.. that's really bad because right now, I'm in 8 of 10 available channels.. and I don't have CTRA.. |
| 13:20.35 | wereHamster | 4 system channels (local defense etc..), CTA, GroupCalendar and 2 costom channels.. |
| 13:21.16 | Elkano | no ItemDBDistChat? :( ;) |
| 13:28.19 | wereHamster | plus, what I think is a really good feature, you don't have to worry about parsing the mesasge string.. |
| 13:39.00 | Wobin_ | hrm, 1.9.3 |
| 13:52.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 13:52.30 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:46.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (i=Khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 14:49.50 | digix_ | anyone have a link to the patch yet? |
| 14:51.38 | Ktron | The impending answer-- no |
| 14:52.10 | id` | its patch day? |
| 14:53.43 | Ktron | well, some kind of patch maybe |
| 14:53.56 | Ktron | I don't think anything big... |
| 14:54.07 | Ktron | I don't think it should be 1.10 |
| 14:54.08 | digix | mainly changes to ZG |
| 14:54.21 | Ktron | or is this 1.10? |
| 14:54.28 | digix | no, this is 1.9.3 |
| 14:54.38 | Ktron | yeah, that sounds about right |
| 14:54.52 | Ktron | maybe some new models too, something like that |
| 14:56.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 15:01.50 | wereHamster | what did they change in ZG? |
| 15:03.01 | digix | removed a bunch of trash mobs and toned down some bosses |
| 15:06.18 | Kalroth | fix Hakkar too :) |
| 15:07.59 | Beladona | you can log into the game to get the patch |
| 15:08.04 | Beladona | at least I did |
| 15:08.23 | Beladona | its only 436kb |
| 15:08.34 | Beladona | but if you really need a link, I have the patch file |
| 15:10.10 | Beladona | I take that back, I see there is a larger one too |
| 15:22.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 15:25.22 | krka | can someone provide a list of changes? |
| 15:25.57 | futr-sleep | not yet, I'm still downloading |
| 15:26.16 | wereHamster | in 1.10, will the virtual frames be available in lua for dynamic frame creation? or only in XML when WoW loads the file? |
| 15:26.47 | futr-sleep | can't use inheritance for dynamic frames |
| 15:29.54 | wereHamster | and what about backdrops for dynamicaly created frames, I don't see any function that would let me specify the backdrop texture .. |
| 15:31.03 | futr-sleep | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:31.04 | futr-sleep | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:31.11 | futr-sleep | from the wiki |
| 15:31.34 | wereHamster | ah.. that's an older function.. I remember.. :) |
| 15:32.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 15:37.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@63-226-219-145.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 15:39.51 | futr-sleep | krka quite a few changes, well tweaks, plus intel mac compatability |
| 15:42.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:45.42 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorol^ (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 15:47.54 | Beladona | krka, my compare is done, I just gotta upload it |
| 15:48.14 | krka | cool |
| 15:49.09 | futr-sleep | any changes to the UI that jump out? |
| 15:49.19 | Ktron | changelog according to Blizzard, if people still need it: http://wow.pastebin.com/543333 |
| 15:50.27 | krka | love is in the air? wtf |
| 15:50.45 | futr-sleep | valentines |
| 15:50.56 | sarf|sleep | General spring thingy too |
| 15:51.27 | futr-sleep | hey your asleep, kep quiet.... oh, so am I |
| 15:51.41 | futr-sleep | you're and keep |
| 15:52.51 | Ktron | no more /split command? gah ;) |
| 15:52.58 | Ktron | How will I survive??? |
| 15:53.12 | Ktron | oh wait, that was in 1.9.2 |
| 15:53.15 | krka | isn't that old news? |
| 15:53.24 | futr-sleep | did I disconnect? |
| 15:54.06 | Ktron | No servers up yet though |
| 15:55.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge futr (n=not@port0152-adv-adsl.cwjamaica.com) |
| 15:55.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 15:56.32 | Beladona | 14 files were changed |
| 16:02.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 16:07.28 | Elkano | 14 UI files or 14 files at all? |
| 16:07.58 | Beladona | UI files |
| 16:08.51 | Beladona | nothing major. They cleaned up some RegisterForSave functions, added offscreen checking to a couple frames, and changed AuctionUI to check to make sure it is loaded |
| 16:10.05 | Elkano | I'll have a look when it's up at wdn :) |
| 16:20.28 | Beladona | ANYONE TRIED THAT NEW rf oNLINE BETA YET? |
| 16:20.38 | Beladona | sorry for caps |
| 16:20.57 | Gryphen | been trying to get my confirmation email |
| 16:21.04 | Gryphen | no luck so far |
| 16:21.04 | sarf|sleep | RF? |
| 16:21.10 | Gryphen | rf |
| 16:21.20 | sarf|sleep | reality football? |
| 16:21.31 | Gryphen | not sure what rf stands for |
| 16:21.33 | Gryphen | just what its called |
| 16:21.37 | Gryphen | http://www.rf-onlinegame.com/ |
| 16:21.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:22.06 | Beladona | http://www.codemasters.com/rfonline/ |
| 16:22.09 | Beladona | or what he said |
| 16:22.25 | Beladona | played last night, its pretty damn fun |
| 16:23.31 | Beladona | hey Gryphen, there is a known issue with some email domains not getting the confirmation email |
| 16:23.41 | Beladona | I had to register twice on a different email to get mine |
| 16:23.44 | Gryphen | yeah, tried my own, then tried gmail |
| 16:23.54 | Beladona | supposedly gmail works |
| 16:24.08 | Gryphen | yeah i had read that, not sure whats up |
| 16:24.27 | Beladona | it took me forever to figure out where I was supposed to register the game |
| 16:24.35 | Beladona | they don't exactly make it obvious |
| 16:28.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem|class (n=Tem@204.90.50.252) |
| 16:28.27 | Tem|class | rawr |
| 16:28.32 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 16:31.11 | Tem|class | wereHamster isn't alone |
| 16:35.50 | Elkano | well, a look at the release notes would be enought for me atm... and then Beladona's diff of the UI files :) |
| 16:42.22 | wereHamster | with CreateFrame(), it seems that in one of my addons I will save >50% of the lua code.. |
| 16:46.58 | wereHamster | I'm also interested in the CreateFrame() performance.. how long does it take to create a new frame? would it be better for raid addon or addons that create lots of frames that are most of the time hidden to create them dynamicaly instead at load-time? |
| 16:49.10 | krka | why does it matter? you will create frames extremely rarely |
| 16:51.21 | wereHamster | but I wouldn't want a 2sec lag when I join a raid.. caused by an addon that creates 40frames... |
| 16:52.08 | Maldivia | hmm.... 1.10.0 prepatch today...? |
| 16:52.54 | Maldivia | wereHamster: well, either you have the 2sec lag when you enter the game, or you have it the first time you enter a raid... |
| 16:58.12 | sarf|sleep | From a performance perspective, having an addon that loads with the RaidUI on demand would be best methinks :) |
| 16:58.26 | Gryphen | id rather have it at raid time, lot less frequent than loading the game |
| 17:03.06 | krka | 2 second lag at most once per session seems ok |
| 17:03.11 | Beladona | Maldivia, what are you talking about a prepatch? |
| 17:03.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 17:03.58 | krka | i bet you could create a LOT of frames without it being noticable at all |
| 17:04.23 | Beladona | lets not and say we did |
| 17:05.14 | krka | in that case, i bet it would be really fast! |
| 17:05.18 | Maldivia | Beladona: 24MB 1.9.3 patch |
| 17:05.58 | Maldivia | Beladona: but it seems as if they are addind a Valentine hollyday... |
| 17:06.40 | Maldivia | from the patch notes: Are you looking for love? All of Azeroth soon will be! As winter draws to a close the races are starting to seek that special someone. Be on the lookout for amorous individuals! Put on that special perfume or cologne, express your love, and receive gifts in return! Prepare yourself... love will soon be in the air! |
| 17:06.47 | Gryphen | http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420182 |
| 17:16.31 | MentalPower | morning Cairenn |
| 17:16.36 | Cairenn | hey :) |
| 17:17.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide- (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:19.11 | MentalPower | Ok, if I have a function inside RunScript() will it return the correct values? |
| 17:19.35 | krka | you may want to elaborate on that |
| 17:20.50 | MentalPower | http://wow.pastebin.com/543502 |
| 17:21.10 | wereHamster | that won't work |
| 17:21.40 | MentalPower | why not? |
| 17:22.09 | wereHamster | either wait for loadstring() (will be in 1.10).. or use this: RunScript("myFunc = function(...) return ...end"); local retVal = myFunc() |
| 17:22.20 | wereHamster | RunScript has no return values |
| 17:22.51 | MentalPower | ah, I see |
| 17:23.03 | MentalPower | thanks :) |
| 17:23.16 | wereHamster | oh.. and the do "myFunc = nil" to clean up the temporary function.. |
| 17:25.29 | MentalPower | will http://wow.pastebin.com/543505 work instead? |
| 17:25.54 | MentalPower | if doStuff() is defined just before the RunScript() call? |
| 17:26.37 | wereHamster | that will work |
| 17:26.50 | MentalPower | awesome, thanks |
| 17:26.58 | wereHamster | but I think doStuff() has to be a global function, not a local one. |
| 17:27.34 | Maldivia | grr.... I HATE this "lets disable load out of date at every patch".... |
| 17:27.45 | MentalPower | me too |
| 17:27.50 | MentalPower | servers are up? |
| 17:27.52 | wereHamster | but you may want to test it first though.. |
| 17:27.58 | Maldivia | I always forget, and then it reset all UserPlaced settings |
| 17:28.13 | wereHamster | Maldivia, that's why my Config.wtf is read-only :) |
| 17:28.41 | MentalPower | good idea :) |
| 17:28.43 | Maldivia | Uhh, Arcanist Gloves has +14 damage now |
| 17:28.49 | wereHamster | no more accepting the EULA.. no more changing settings after every patch :) |
| 17:29.32 | Tem|class | I hate it when the professor changes the program on the day it's due |
| 17:30.26 | MentalPower | what did it have before Maldivia? |
| 17:30.30 | Maldivia | 0 |
| 17:30.38 | Tem|class | really? |
| 17:30.40 | Tem|class | sweet! |
| 17:30.52 | Tem|class | I was so underwhelmed by Arcanist |
| 17:30.59 | Tem|class | yay! and I've got those too |
| 17:31.04 | Cairenn | Tem|class: did you make it to your exam okay? how did it go? |
| 17:31.09 | Tem|class | it was OK |
| 17:31.12 | Maldivia | I'm using the ZG gloves instead of Arcanist :) |
| 17:31.23 | Tem|class | ZG Gloves? |
| 17:31.36 | Tem|class | there is no illusionist's attire for the handslot |
| 17:31.38 | Tem|class | is there? |
| 17:31.52 | Maldivia | ohh, the Silithus gloves, then :) |
| 17:31.56 | Maldivia | the one from The calling quest |
| 17:32.05 | Maldivia | they have +27 dmg |
| 17:32.11 | Tem|class | oh yeah |
| 17:32.14 | Tem|class | I need to do that quest |
| 17:32.28 | Tem|class | I'm using Arcanist |
| 17:32.33 | Tem|class | for the 3 peice set bonus |
| 17:33.13 | Maldivia | hmm... Arcanist bindings is now +12 dmg... vs +6 dmg, and 3 mana/5sec vs 2 mana/5sec |
| 17:33.19 | Tem|class | woot! |
| 17:33.23 | Tem|class | is this 1.10? |
| 17:33.30 | Tem|class | or just during maintenance? |
| 17:33.31 | Cairenn | no |
| 17:33.36 | Cairenn | 1.9.3 |
| 17:33.37 | Maldivia | 1.9.3 - maintenance today |
| 17:33.41 | Tem|class | freaking awesome! |
| 17:33.57 | Tem|class | I <3 when my gear gets buffed |
| 17:34.16 | Tem|class | Iriel, you around? |
| 17:34.31 | Cairenn | can you do tab complete on his name? |
| 17:34.33 | Tem|class | lol... you would think I would know by now that if you can't tab complete a name, they aren't here |
| 17:34.37 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 17:34.55 | MentalPower | Arcanist Crown also got a bugg |
| 17:34.58 | Tem|class | I did "Ir<tab><tab>" !? "iel" |
| 17:35.00 | MentalPower | err.. buff |
| 17:35.06 | Tem|class | oh I don't have it yet |
| 17:35.08 | Tem|class | but I'm next |
| 17:35.15 | Tem|class | only mage without it at |
| 17:35.18 | Tem|class | the moment |
| 17:35.40 | Tem|class | But it won't matter, because I'm getting my NW crown tonight |
| 17:35.52 | Tem|class | (If I don't I'm going to be one pissed off mage) |
| 17:36.02 | Beladona | blarg |
| 17:36.02 | Maldivia | hmm... the entire Arcanist set got a damage boost |
| 17:36.14 | Maldivia | Robe: 16 -> 23 |
| 17:36.17 | Tem|class | (but it won't be /that/ bad since this is a 2 ony week) |
| 17:36.22 | Tem|class | pants? |
| 17:36.23 | MentalPower | +5 more to dam/healing and a new 1% chance to hit with spells |
| 17:36.39 | Tem|class | on the crown? |
| 17:36.56 | MentalPower | that was crown |
| 17:37.39 | MentalPower | +20 dam/healing (instead of +14 to frost) |
| 17:37.42 | MentalPower | that's legs |
| 17:37.52 | Tem|class | !! |
| 17:37.57 | Tem|class | that's so awesome |
| 17:38.01 | Maldivia | Arcanist has been changed A LOT! |
| 17:38.06 | Tem|class | I actually want arcanist now |
| 17:38.06 | Maldivia | not just damage, stats aswell |
| 17:38.16 | Tem|class | What's the stats on the crown? |
| 17:38.35 | MentalPower | hmm, some bad news... |
| 17:38.39 | Tem|class | uh oh |
| 17:38.40 | Maldivia | Arcanist Crown: 16stam, 27 int, 10 spr, 10 FR, 20 dmg, 1% hit |
| 17:38.46 | MentalPower | they lowered the other stats |
| 17:38.57 | Tem|class | I don't really care that much about the other stats |
| 17:39.11 | Maldivia | Was: 14stam, 35 int, 8spr, 10 FR, 15 dmg |
| 17:39.16 | Tem|class | I'm all about the spell damage |
| 17:39.25 | Tem|class | that's more intel than NW |
| 17:39.59 | Shadowd | who needs INT when you have paladins anyway |
| 17:40.04 | Tem|class | seriously |
| 17:40.16 | Tem|class | who needs INT when you can't live long enough to use it |
| 17:40.45 | MentalPower | old legs: 89 Armor·+23 Stamina·+24 Intellect·+13 Spirit·+10 Shadow Resistance |
| 17:40.47 | MentalPower | new legs: 89 Armor·+18 Stamina·+23 Intellect·+10 Spirit·+10 Shadow Resistance |
| 17:40.50 | Shadowd | hehe |
| 17:41.10 | Shadowd | Get more STA, or stop pulling aggro! |
| 17:41.23 | Tem|class | I'm talking about PVP |
| 17:41.31 | Tem|class | but I pull agro on purpose every 5 minutes |
| 17:41.40 | wereHamster | Shadowd, did you notice the shield block bug before? I mean if 20 mobs are bashing on me, I can't keep track of how many times I've blocked.. |
| 17:41.44 | Tem|class | keeps the tanks on their toes |
| 17:42.44 | Tem|class | mostly just to prove that I can because our tank can be a real cock about how good a tank he is. So I pull agro periodically to keep him in his "I can still be better" place. |
| 17:42.46 | Shadowd | wereHamster: It was only noticable on quick mobs, or lots of them but I'm also using SCT so I saw the block messages everytime. |
| 17:43.20 | Shadowd | Like when you had those 15-20 rats in strat, you could just hit shield block and be basically "immune" to the damage. |
| 17:43.30 | Shadowd | *15-20 rats on you inbetween the gates |
| 17:44.12 | wereHamster | Shadowd, I don't go to startholme that often.. and we have always a mage with us.. :) |
| 17:44.26 | Shadowd | Yeah, the mage I went with wasn't that good :p |
| 17:44.37 | Tem|class | I always have a mage with me |
| 17:44.38 | Shadowd | He didn't have IAE! |
| 17:44.42 | Tem|class | meaning I AM a mage |
| 17:44.53 | Tem|class | Shadowd: that isn't a requirement of the class |
| 17:45.06 | Tem|class | Shadowd: If I could afford to repect, I would drop IAE |
| 17:45.14 | Tem|class | for more frost talents |
| 17:45.23 | Shadowd | no, but it means he was trying to blizzard all the rats to death which took a while :p |
| 17:45.37 | Tem|class | lol! |
| 17:45.45 | Tem|class | FrostNova -> CoC |
| 17:45.58 | Shadowd | Yeah, I think I saw him use that maybe once |
| 17:45.59 | Tem|class | and if you need more damage add a flamestrike to the front |
| 17:46.29 | Tem|class | and that's about 1500 instant damage |
| 17:46.44 | Tem|class | with about another 400-500 DoT |
| 17:46.53 | wereHamster | we have a good tactic, I go into the mobs with essence of the pure flame, blessing of sanctuary and the pala aura that does dmg to the attacker, I stay there for a while and then the two mages can do AoE and they don't get aggro :) |
| 17:48.00 | Shadowd | One of these days, i'll just 2h tank those packs to make it easier |
| 17:48.28 | Tem|class | yeah that works too, but I prefer to kill them real fast before they can do any real damage to me |
| 17:49.23 | wereHamster | Too bad I barely do dmg.. I can survive really long, but someone else has to do the dmg.. :) |
| 17:49.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 17:59.30 | MentalPower | Woot!! the reputarion bug is fixed!! |
| 18:01.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-67-160-147-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.51 | krka | is reputarion a race? |
| 18:01.56 | Cairenn | lol |
| 18:03.34 | MentalPower | s/reputarion/reputation/ |
| 18:03.39 | MentalPower | :) |
| 18:03.40 | Maldivia | no mentioning in the patch notes about "stuck at 100" or other health bugs |
| 18:04.39 | Shadowd | They didn't mention the reputation bug though did they? Don't remember seeing something saying it was fixed |
| 18:04.39 | Maldivia | for a list of changes to the Arcanist set pieces: http://nerdheaven.dk/~the_real/wow/arcanist.txt |
| 18:04.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 18:05.07 | MentalPower | Maldivia: Felheart was also changed |
| 18:05.21 | Maldivia | ack... now I have to compare 8 other items :) |
| 18:05.23 | MentalPower | Shadowd: nop, no mention whatsoever |
| 18:05.46 | Cairenn | Beladona: do you have the compare up yet? |
| 18:05.52 | Beladona | yes |
| 18:05.56 | Cairenn | k, thanks |
| 18:05.59 | Beladona | making changes on the site though |
| 18:06.09 | Beladona | so some stuff may not come up, but today's compare will |
| 18:06.33 | MentalPower | Maldivia: you also forgot the % to hit changes :) |
| 18:07.07 | Maldivia | ohh, which item? |
| 18:07.46 | Cairenn | Devla was asking on the Blizz forum about any changes to the UI stuff, so I was just wondering whether to link wdn yet or not, that was all :) |
| 18:08.20 | Maldivia | MentalPower: the only Arcanist piece with %hit, is the Crown - I have that listed |
| 18:08.22 | MentalPower | never mind, I'm blind :) |
| 18:08.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge lon (n=lhh@nat-pool-bos.redhat.com) |
| 18:08.36 | MentalPower | yeah, I noticed aterwards |
| 18:08.41 | MentalPower | ~lart MentalPower |
| 18:09.05 | Maldivia | But you say Felheart has changed aswell? |
| 18:09.05 | Cairenn | ROFL |
| 18:09.08 | Cairenn | I like that one! |
| 18:09.26 | Beladona | not many changes on the UI side |
| 18:09.30 | Beladona | at least nothing major |
| 18:09.46 | Beladona | just some tweaks and fixes |
| 18:10.37 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 18:14.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge elema (n=ele_ma@p548AE4F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:15.21 | Cairenn | Tem|class: you just got called a ferret *boggle* |
| 18:16.03 | Cairenn | servers are up |
| 18:18.32 | MentalPower | Maldivia: check slippers, bracers, belt, robes & pants |
| 18:18.55 | Maldivia | MentalPower: just finished my comparison :) |
| 18:19.00 | MentalPower | :) |
| 18:19.24 | Maldivia | all health/5sec was removed, and shadow damage was buffed and converted to generic dmg/heal |
| 18:20.36 | Maldivia | priest set was changes asll |
| 18:20.39 | Maldivia | aswell* |
| 18:20.59 | MentalPower | really? I didn't notice those |
| 18:21.55 | Maldivia | the circlet lost its mana/5sec |
| 18:21.58 | Maldivia | for more +healing |
| 18:22.14 | Maldivia | and recieved a stat buff |
| 18:22.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 18:27.47 | Cairenn | wb sarf|stuff, have a good nap? |
| 18:28.30 | Cairenn | wow |
| 18:28.43 | Cairenn | I didn't mean to scare him away |
| 18:28.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sarf|stuff (i=sarf@ce01949-p11-odals6.cenara.com) |
| 18:30.10 | krka | you girls are way too easily upset :P |
| 18:30.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Fanook|Zzz (n=thenerdw@heinze726.dacor.net) |
| 18:30.37 | Cairenn | and if you took that serious, you are way too gullible :p |
| 18:32.48 | krka | it's very hard to tell true feelings over IRC :( |
| 18:33.08 | GenNMX|Thrae | You should know that Cairenn is a teaser ;) |
| 18:33.11 | krka | hmm... maybe I should set up my buff-addon to not try to Arcane Intellect on other mages |
| 18:33.26 | krka | that's already implied by being female |
| 18:33.39 | Cairenn | hey! I resemble that remark! |
| 18:33.43 | GenNMX|Thrae | krka: BuffBot has some good rules setup |
| 18:34.32 | krka | i dont want buffbot, i want my addon :P |
| 18:34.44 | krka | can buffbot buff mouseover units btw? |
| 18:35.03 | GenNMX|Thrae | No no, I mean, steal / take a look at their code |
| 18:35.29 | GenNMX|Thrae | I'm not sure if it can or not, I've never tried |
| 18:36.46 | Beladona | Cairenn is a teaser? |
| 18:36.57 | Beladona | when does the film come out? |
| 18:37.01 | Beladona | =P |
| 18:37.02 | Cairenn | ! |
| 18:37.14 | Maldivia | MentalPower: hmm, ok - I was wrong about Prophecy :) |
| 18:37.16 | GenNMX|Thrae | Cairenn: By the way, I think the topic should be changed too -- "Everytime you use a semicolon, a kitten is killed. Please, think of the kittens!" |
| 18:37.19 | Beladona | cause thats one I gotta see |
| 18:37.42 | GenNMX|Thrae | Beladona: How did you know I was blackmailing Cair with revealing film?! |
| 18:37.54 | Cairenn | ! |
| 18:38.19 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge by Beladona -> Mod Dev Discussions: Do your part to prevent ozone depletion. Eat meat! (Damn Cows) |
| 18:39.33 | krka | hmm... but if we eat cows, more cows will be produced |
| 18:39.53 | krka | by avoiding eating cows, the market should lessen and thus people will stop breeding them |
| 18:40.05 | GenNMX|Thrae | Speaking of bad things for the environment: http://news.yahoo.com/s/oneworld/20060204/wl_oneworld/45361268291139089785;_ylt=Ah3XakhdnZYbsoIBRp012zgDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl |
| 18:40.33 | GenNMX|Thrae | TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/bfhws |
| 18:40.42 | GenNMX|Thrae | We should add a TinyURL module to purl. |
| 18:41.16 | krka | we should get rid of purl |
| 18:45.06 | Natasem | ~kill purl |
| 18:45.08 | purl | ACTION shoots a inverse anti-quark gun at purl |
| 18:47.12 | AnduinLothar | why look... an update.. |
| 18:52.41 | AnduinLothar | Vida Yeung: i haven't given anything away |
| 18:52.42 | AnduinLothar | Vida Yeung: well, some |
| 18:52.46 | AnduinLothar | blah |
| 18:53.02 | AnduinLothar | stupid Synergy |
| 18:53.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 18:53.22 | AnduinLothar | Cant Copy form the stupid patcher... |
| 18:53.50 | AnduinLothar | Mac |
| 18:53.50 | AnduinLothar | - Added native support for Intel-powered Macs such as the iMac (Core |
| 18:53.50 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:53.51 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:53.51 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:53.51 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:54.08 | AnduinLothar | Theat's what I MEANT to paste |
| 18:54.16 | AnduinLothar | that* |
| 18:54.54 | AnduinLothar | now i wanna see it's fps on the dual core 2.0 imac.. |
| 18:56.04 | Cairenn | silly AnduinLothar, you could have just checked the patch notes at WoWI, you know I always have them up :) |
| 18:56.43 | AnduinLothar | lotta changes.. this must be like all the bug fixes they had for 1.10, but decided they hadn't finnished the 1.10 content so they pushed a bugs patch instead.. |
| 18:58.06 | wereHamster | AnduinLothar, does WoW support multi-threading or dual cores? |
| 18:58.16 | AnduinLothar | of course |
| 18:58.18 | krka | can anyone check if the update_bindings change got in early? |
| 18:59.20 | AnduinLothar | all the top end macs are and have been dual procs. the Opperating system automaticly utilizes them, the software just has to make different threads |
| 18:59.59 | Cairenn | krka: http://wdn.wowinterface.com/ |
| 19:00.16 | Cairenn | hey Beladona? |
| 19:00.33 | Cairenn | High praise for you - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=315749&p=1&tmp=1#post315749 |
| 19:01.17 | AnduinLothar | mmm, there we go. Looks liek they nerfed hakkar which is surprising except for the Enrage ability after 10 minutes in combat. |
| 19:01.54 | krka | damn, links cant handle that page |
| 19:02.03 | AnduinLothar | which should effectualy mean he'll be nearly impossible after 10 min and all strats will involve killing him fast |
| 19:02.52 | AnduinLothar | ah good, they fixed King Gordok |
| 19:03.19 | Codayus | Well, not just a nerf. |
| 19:03.40 | Shadowd | Being able to buy a quel for 5g was fun though |
| 19:03.42 | AnduinLothar | right, they nerfed him for the first 10 min |
| 19:03.46 | Codayus | Some of the changes to how he targets will be...interesting. |
| 19:03.52 | sancus | it'll have to be a gigantically massive enrage to cause that, his melee damage was already barely noticeable and they reduced it |
| 19:04.19 | Codayus | sancus: Have you tried fighting him with Thekal alive? |
| 19:04.29 | sancus | and they lengthened the siphon cooldown... be pretty hard to kill him in under 10 mins |
| 19:04.29 | Codayus | That already gave him an enrage, and it was gigantically massive. |
| 19:04.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem|class (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:04.36 | sancus | nope |
| 19:04.46 | AnduinLothar | why look. servers are up at 11 like they said |
| 19:04.50 | Shadowd | They probably wouldn't have given him an enrage after 10 minutes if it didn't increase the damage a ton either |
| 19:05.01 | Shadowd | The servers have been up for about two hours |
| 19:05.01 | Cairenn | they've been up for almost an hour now, AnduinLothar :) |
| 19:05.09 | Shadowd | err, hour and 41 minutes. |
| 19:05.11 | AnduinLothar | ooo |
| 19:05.14 | sancus | siphons were every 40 seconds, if they're every 50-60 seconds now I dont see how you could kill him in 10 mins |
| 19:05.17 | AnduinLothar | early, wow |
| 19:05.27 | Codayus | Unless they nerfed his damage *vastly*, the enrage will make him unkillable for most raids I think... |
| 19:05.30 | AnduinLothar | im impressed |
| 19:06.03 | sancus | plus they *reduced* the damage dealt by poisonous siphon |
| 19:06.20 | AnduinLothar | heh. just boot um |
| 19:06.40 | krka | can anyone notify some devs about this? bug reports from europe seem to be completely ignored http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-en&t=32708&p=1&tmp=1#post32708 |
| 19:06.48 | krka | (and this bug is EU only :( ) |
| 19:06.58 | sancus | maybe I'll actually go to a ZG just to see new hakkar, been like two months since I touched ZG |
| 19:07.36 | Cairenn | krka - heh, see my comment on the Cosmos channel, just did |
| 19:08.16 | krka | thanks cair |
| 19:08.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-67-160-147-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:08.32 | AnduinLothar | hmmm they didn't say anything about fixing the rep page... did they? |
| 19:08.36 | Cairenn | you're welcome :) |
| 19:09.28 | krka | yay! i'm welcome! |
| 19:09.38 | Shadowd | Apparently not AnduinLothar |
| 19:09.47 | AnduinLothar | They fixed it tho |
| 19:10.04 | Shadowd | Maybe they didn't mention it to see how long it takes us to find it? |
| 19:10.05 | AnduinLothar | Cause I just reloaded and they're still there |
| 19:10.56 | AnduinLothar | yay. that bug was my least favorite |
| 19:11.15 | Shadowd | It was fun being able to see the Horde Alterac Valley guards buffs though |
| 19:11.47 | AnduinLothar | was funny getting a green rep increase for all faction after reloading |
| 19:12.21 | sancus | Codayus: On the other hand, you can and should put full melee dps on Hakkar now |
| 19:12.36 | Codayus | sancus: Looks that way, eh? |
| 19:12.42 | sancus | well you could before |
| 19:12.47 | sancus | but nobody did it because nobody cared :P |
| 19:12.48 | Codayus | But what was the point. |
| 19:12.49 | wereHamster | sancus, doesn't hakkar MC if more than one goes near him? |
| 19:12.55 | sancus | they changed his MC |
| 19:12.57 | sancus | it MCs the tank now |
| 19:13.07 | sancus | so you'll need two tanks |
| 19:13.20 | Shadowd | Is the MC random, or has someone timed it yet? |
| 19:13.29 | Codayus | You used to be able to make sure he MCed the same guy every time if you wanted. We used a rogue without weapons. :-P |
| 19:13.31 | sancus | I doubt it since it just happened.. today :p |
| 19:13.42 | sancus | you could also avoid the MC completely |
| 19:13.44 | sancus | easily |
| 19:13.53 | Shadowd | I never went into ZG when I could avoid it, so I wasn't sure if the old MC was timed :p |
| 19:14.04 | sancus | yeah I stopped going there when I got Exalted |
| 19:14.04 | Codayus | Yeah, I heard that, but we never really bothered. |
| 19:14.07 | sancus | was so sick of the place |
| 19:14.13 | sancus | now its gonna be sooo easy to get Exalted heh |
| 19:14.16 | Codayus | Looks like he'll be MCing the tank now, which will be much more exciting. |
| 19:14.16 | wereHamster | we've never done hakkar with melees so far.. |
| 19:14.24 | Shadowd | Codayus: It's more fun watching paladins cons spam while MC'ed though |
| 19:15.05 | Codayus | Oh well, the melee types were bored out of their minds anyhow. |
| 19:15.18 | sancus | You could turn Hakkar around so his back was facing the platform |
| 19:15.22 | sancus | and then people could melee him |
| 19:15.23 | sancus | before, I mean |
| 19:15.56 | sancus | I dont know anyone who bothered though |
| 19:17.11 | Shadowd | Interesting, 1.9.3 broke the ability to disenchant cloth |
| 19:17.24 | SP|Sorren | anyone have a patch mirror :/ |
| 19:17.35 | Codayus | Yeah...whatever you gained from the melee DPS you'd lose if you missed a corrupted siphon. |
| 19:17.43 | Codayus | So why complicate matters? |
| 19:18.11 | Cairenn | SP|Sorren: actually, surprisingly enough, no, it doesn't seem anyone does ... I've checked all the usual suspects and no one has it up =/ |
| 19:18.22 | Shadowd | SP|Sorren: http://ww.subzerofx.com/wow/WoW-1.9.2.4996-to-1.9.3.5059-enUS-patch.exe |
| 19:18.30 | sancus | known bug: disenchanting cloth |
| 19:18.31 | sancus | rofl |
| 19:18.32 | Cairenn | or I could be wrong :) |
| 19:18.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge elema (n=ele_ma@p548ADD1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:18.39 | SP|Sorren | woot |
| 19:18.41 | Shadowd | Well, I only have one up as of about 2 seconds ago |
| 19:18.50 | elema | hy guys |
| 19:18.59 | Cairenn | hey elema |
| 19:19.25 | elema | if ( maintime ~= true ) then means that if maintime is not true then bla right? |
| 19:19.33 | SP|Sorren | awesome, it'd been sitting at 0 for the last 5 minutes |
| 19:19.58 | pagefault | yeah my download is busted too |
| 19:20.17 | SP|Sorren | that's tricky elema |
| 19:20.25 | elema | so ? |
| 19:20.37 | elema | you mean it is not as good defined? |
| 19:20.44 | SP|Sorren | while it may evaluate to true, i dont think its really equivalent to true |
| 19:21.02 | SP|Sorren | do you want to check if it's defined, or what? |
| 19:21.21 | elema | no I wanna check whther it has not a special value |
| 19:21.44 | Shadowd | Hmm odd, sec |
| 19:21.53 | Cairenn | oooo, preview of Tom's new interface: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16212&postcount=3 |
| 19:21.54 | SP|Sorren | what value? just true? |
| 19:21.58 | elema | if my var has not the value 0 I wanna subract 1 |
| 19:22.42 | elema | (hope substract is the right verb for var = (var - 1); |
| 19:22.47 | SP|Sorren | oh then thats easy, it would just be ~= 0 ;o |
| 19:23.00 | SP|Sorren | errr |
| 19:23.02 | SP|Sorren | right |
| 19:23.04 | elema | ok this was what I hoped wo hear |
| 19:23.05 | SP|Sorren | not 0 :P |
| 19:23.34 | elema | so the long thing is: if ( maintime ~= 0 ) then |
| 19:23.34 | SP|Sorren | oo the new art one is pretty |
| 19:23.42 | SP|Sorren | yah |
| 19:23.43 | elema | maintime = maintime - 1; |
| 19:23.48 | elema | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:23.57 | SP|Sorren | yah |
| 19:24.03 | elema | great |
| 19:24.05 | SP|Sorren | i really wish lua had -- and ++ |
| 19:24.06 | AnduinLothar | yay, got someone to craft my lionheart |
| 19:24.11 | Shadowd | SP|Sorren: www.subzerofx.com/wow/WoW-1.9.2.4996-to-1.9.3.5059-enUS-patch.exe that should work |
| 19:24.12 | SP|Sorren | congrats ;P |
| 19:24.22 | SP|Sorren | oh its working :) |
| 19:24.25 | SP|Sorren | eh |
| 19:24.31 | SP|Sorren | it seems to have paused |
| 19:25.12 | SP|Sorren | is there a better download manager for firefox? |
| 19:25.47 | pagefault | yeah the patch tracker is now down |
| 19:25.48 | pagefault | yay |
| 19:26.17 | elema | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:26.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-38-158.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:26.33 | SP|Sorren | ++ for increments and -- for decrements by 1 ;o |
| 19:26.42 | SP|Sorren | little shortcuts that most languages have |
| 19:26.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:26.53 | SP|Sorren | but lua deems unecessary i guess :p |
| 19:27.00 | Shadowd | Odd, it worked fine for me. Is it still pausing? |
| 19:27.01 | Kolth | They're also tricky. |
| 19:27.02 | krka | lua seems to follow KISS |
| 19:27.15 | SP|Sorren | its going agian, my internet just sucks |
| 19:27.18 | Shadowd | Ahh |
| 19:27.33 | elema | you mean four minus minus one should be 4 -- 1 or like in math 4- (-1) |
| 19:27.33 | Shadowd | krka: ++ and -- are simpler then var + 1 or var - 1 htough |
| 19:27.36 | SP|Sorren | which is why i fail at downloading anything with blizzard's downloader |
| 19:27.39 | Shadowd | s/htough/though |
| 19:27.43 | SP|Sorren | no |
| 19:27.48 | SP|Sorren | x--; |
| 19:27.49 | elema | aya I see |
| 19:27.52 | SP|Sorren | would be equivalent to |
| 19:27.56 | SP|Sorren | x = x - 1; |
| 19:28.04 | krka | simple as in as little syntax as possible |
| 19:28.17 | Tem | Blizzard's downloader works fine for me now that I have access to the router I'm behind |
| 19:28.24 | Beladona | its more like this ++i |
| 19:28.42 | Beladona | which is the same as saying i= i + 1; |
| 19:29.04 | Kolth | ^^ yeah, i++ is not i = i + 1 |
| 19:29.21 | SP|Sorren | oh? |
| 19:29.41 | Kolth | Pre and post increment/decrement act differently |
| 19:29.50 | SP|Sorren | c++ you can do both, it just changes when it's executed right? |
| 19:29.55 | Kolth | yes |
| 19:29.59 | SP|Sorren | on a line by itself they're essentially the same though |
| 19:30.08 | Kolth | Which might be the exact reason a language doesn't allow for it. |
| 19:30.09 | SP|Sorren | and in a for loop, the values come out the same in all my testing |
| 19:30.21 | krka | only for primitive usage of ++ |
| 19:30.50 | SP|Sorren | if you want to use it in a statement it gets a bit complicated ;P |
| 19:30.59 | SP|Sorren | other than x++; by itself on a line ;O |
| 19:32.12 | krka | yes, ++ operators are not trivial, thus lua didn't want them |
| 19:32.35 | SP|Sorren | they could make them trivial though ;P |
| 19:32.45 | SP|Sorren | and save me some typing ;) |
| 19:33.44 | krka | it's not so bad |
| 19:33.56 | Tem | I just wish we had += |
| 19:34.02 | SP|Sorren | ^ |
| 19:34.04 | SP|Sorren | that one definately |
| 19:34.21 | Tem | I would be happy with just += and friends |
| 19:34.29 | SP|Sorren | i wouldn't mind the lack of ++ and -- if we had += etc |
| 19:34.45 | krka | yes, += is less of a problem than ++ |
| 19:40.27 | SP|Sorren | hmm they didnt fix the lack of freeze trap diminishing returns apparantly :O |
| 19:40.40 | AnduinLothar | poor hunters |
| 19:40.47 | SP|Sorren | indeed. |
| 19:40.49 | SP|Sorren | poor us. |
| 19:44.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 19:57.14 | wereHamster | why poor hunters? it's good for them, isn't it? |
| 19:57.32 | AnduinLothar | deminishing returns? no |
| 19:57.52 | Cairenn | Elkano: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=314752&s=new&tmp=1#new |
| 19:57.55 | Cairenn | he responded |
| 19:58.02 | sancus | hunters gonna cry when they get normalized! |
| 19:58.25 | Shadowd | Just add a casting time and they can have no diminishing returns on traps! |
| 19:59.08 | wereHamster | quote: "they didn't fix the lack of .. diminishing returns" .. so there are no diminishing returns right now.. that's how I understand this sentense |
| 19:59.26 | Shadowd | I'm pretty sure there is, at least I've always seen them to have one when I'm trapped. |
| 20:00.30 | krka | the venture co bug is fixed for linux! |
| 20:02.08 | Maldivia | well, the problem is, that it's not a legal filename for Windows |
| 20:02.56 | sancus | hmm |
| 20:03.11 | sancus | you'd need two hunters for dim returns to ever matter though, dim returns only last for 15 seconds and one hunter can only trap you every 30 seconds |
| 20:03.14 | krka | can be worked around easily in linux |
| 20:03.23 | sancus | So if they trap you, then wait 30 seconds, there would never be any diminishing returns |
| 20:04.00 | Shadowd | Usually what happens is something like "Charge, Freeze Trapped, Aim Shot, Freeze Trap", think I had one hunter that trapped me 3 times, and rocket helmed, and burned a potion. |
| 20:04.34 | Shadowd | Did they ever fix the Frost reflector + trap bug? |
| 20:06.03 | sancus | Shadow: dim returns wouldnt change that, the 2nd trap would be a bit shorter duration, but not enough for it to make much difference since you get untrapped the moment they shoot you anyhow |
| 20:06.55 | Shadowd | A few seconds is usually enough to get range though. and it's not usually easy to avoid the second trap before hamstringing them sometimes. |
| 20:08.10 | sancus | yep |
| 20:08.24 | sancus | and dim returns would still give them as much time as they needed |
| 20:08.49 | Shadowd | Kind of suprised they didn't add a casting time even if it's 0.5 to it during the class review. |
| 20:09.10 | sancus | err the class review improved hunters enormously it didnt nerf them :p |
| 20:09.45 | sancus | that'd be a nerf, hunters were crying they were underpowered at the time |
| 20:10.05 | Shadowd | That doesn't mean they can't fix something like FD + Trap, heck you could make it 0.1 just something to stop the FD + Trapping. |
| 20:11.20 | sancus | you're talking like bliz would consider fd+trap to be a problem |
| 20:11.22 | sancus | why would they |
| 20:11.59 | Shadowd | Because you can basically run past someone and lay down a trap, or FD and lay a trap basically instantly. |
| 20:12.50 | Codayus | I really dubt bliz sees fd+trap as a problem. They seem to see it as a feature. |
| 20:14.39 | sancus | yea |
| 20:14.51 | Shadowd | If they saw it as a problem they would have probably fixed it already. But that doesn't mean it's something that should be allowed |
| 20:14.54 | sancus | FD is *supposed* to let hunters lay a trap in combat heh, thats one of its main uses |
| 20:14.55 | pagefault | if they want to nerf something on hunters they need to nerf shadowmeld+aimed shot |
| 20:15.52 | Shadowd | Thats not my point sancus, it's that they can lay it basically instantly |
| 20:16.19 | Codayus | My thought is bliz sees it as so integral to the class it won't be removed outside of a full class review, and probably not then. The shadowmeld/AS thing I could see being nerfed... |
| 20:16.22 | sancus | sure, if they didnt want them to be able to do that |
| 20:16.26 | sancus | they would have changed it by now |
| 20:17.00 | Shadowd | I just said that though |
| 20:17.03 | sancus | well Aimed Shot is probably going to be nerfed itself soon |
| 20:17.19 | Codayus | I could see that. |
| 20:17.32 | pagefault | I don't have a problem with AS, just when they are shadowmeld |
| 20:17.33 | sancus | "normalized" I mean |
| 20:17.37 | pagefault | I think thats cheap |
| 20:18.34 | Codayus | Bloodseeker and Carapace spin should not be the...what, 3rd and 4th best ranged weapons in game? Insane. |
| 20:19.48 | Codayus | Well, there's probably some good AQ weapons now...but stiill, bloodseeker in the top 5? Sooo doesn't make sense. |
| 20:21.41 | Codayus | I convinced a hunter in my guild to swap to a csx from an ancient bone bow. His DPS increased by some insane amount. He ended up in 2nd place in a ZG run, up from like...10th. From just swapping weapons? Yeah, that needsnormalized AP. |
| 20:21.58 | Cairenn | brb |
| 20:22.00 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:23.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:28.12 | elema | if that fucking guys nerf my holy aimed, then, ... ehh I .. hate them |
| 20:28.28 | elema | this must be bloody nonsense |
| 20:29.40 | Codayus | elema - I'd be surprised if sometime in the next couple of patches the AP bonus from aimed shot won't be normalized. Whether that counts as a nerf depends on your current weapon and the chosen normalized speed. |
| 20:31.23 | zeeg | patch mirror anyone? |
| 20:31.28 | Codayus | (er...too aimed shot, obviously.) |
| 20:31.30 | Shadowd | sec |
| 20:31.33 | sancus | soloing in lbrs is fun! |
| 20:31.50 | Codayus | class? |
| 20:31.54 | sancus | mage |
| 20:32.07 | Shadowd | zeeg: www.subzerofx.com/wow/WoW-1.9.2.4996-to-1.9.3.5059-enUS-patch.exe |
| 20:32.18 | zeeg | thx |
| 20:32.20 | zeeg | want that mirror public/ |
| 20:33.26 | Shadowd | rather not! |
| 20:33.26 | Codayus | AnduinLothar: fun |
| 20:33.26 | zeeg | k |
| 20:33.26 | Shadowd | Probably would kill my bandwidth, just mostly using it for people on IRC or friend.s |
| 20:33.26 | zeeg | uploading to wowguru |
| 20:33.26 | Codayus | sancus[B[B[B[B[Bzomg, tab completion ftl. |
| 20:33.26 | sancus | ... |
| 20:33.42 | Codayus | that was supposed to be sancus. :-) |
| 20:33.46 | Codayus | okay, wtf is wrong with this client. :-( |
| 20:34.48 | elema | I'm playing hunter for live(!!) I've done the epic quest with rhok'delar and was ever happy with my aimed |
| 20:35.21 | elema | so they shouldn't changed it ( n'ya they could make it a lil bit harder ;) ) |
| 20:36.15 | zeeg | so i need to make a system |
| 20:36.19 | zeeg | that pages my cell phone when there's a new patch |
| 20:36.24 | Codayus | whats the speed on rohok? |
| 20:36.46 | Codayus | er...rhok, even |
| 20:37.25 | Shadowd | zeeg: Looks like you forgot to create public_html/ui/footer.php! |
| 20:37.56 | zeeg | whered you see the include at? |
| 20:38.06 | Shadowd | http://www.wowguru.com/ui/submit/ I'm not logged in |
| 20:38.35 | zeeg | thx |
| 20:38.36 | zeeg | http://wow.mmofiles.com/patches/511/wow-1.9.2.4996-to-1.9.3.5059-enus-patch.html |
| 20:39.55 | sancus | rhok's 2.9 |
| 20:40.10 | sancus | not bad, but ashjre'thul owns it |
| 20:40.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:40.52 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 20:41.20 | Elkano | wb Cairenn :) |
| 20:41.27 | Cairenn | thanks |
| 20:41.39 | Cairenn | Elkano: did you see my message to you earlier? |
| 20:41.51 | Elkano | better low priority and an answer from slouken than nothing :) |
| 20:42.06 | Cairenn | I'll take that as a "yes, I saw it" ;) |
| 20:42.24 | Elkano | yes, indeed I did :) |
| 20:42.58 | krka | damn it Iriel, this was my idea! ;) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=315836&p=1&tmp=1#post315836 |
| 20:44.16 | Iriel | krka: Hm? Is that the GC thread? |
| 20:44.19 | krka | yeah |
| 20:44.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pfault (n=pagefaul@69.158.162.221) |
| 20:44.58 | Shadowd | She joined right as you left |
| 20:45.02 | Shadowd | err he |
| 20:45.10 | Iriel | It's come up a few times over time, a cleverer approach would probably make larger tables (fill them with data) when there's a big gap between current memory and the GC threshold |
| 20:45.21 | krka | yeah, i was thinking that too |
| 20:45.26 | krka | less comparisons and loops |
| 20:45.40 | Iriel | Fewer calls to gcinfo, yes |
| 20:45.44 | Elkano | Shadowd, I thought he was a girl in the beginning, too :/ damn charas in the forums... ;) |
| 20:45.46 | Iriel | You'd have to be very sure you didn't allocate too much. |
| 20:45.58 | Iriel | heh 8-) |
| 20:46.05 | Shadowd | Elkano, I knew he wasn't but said "She" instead of "He" for some reason |
| 20:46.22 | Iriel | Iriel the persona is a she anyway, so you're safe with either answer. |
| 20:46.48 | Iriel | krka: Since some of the table allocation does exponential growth, it may end up being more hassle than it's worth |
| 20:46.55 | Cairenn | but irl, he's very much male, mmmrowl! |
| 20:48.25 | krka | table allocation of exponential growth? |
| 20:49.45 | Iriel | krka: if you allocate entries, tables grow exponentially, so the first few entries it allocates one new cell at a time, then it starts doubling in size (I'm not sure the factor is doubling exactly, but that's the general idea) |
| 20:50.02 | Iriel | krka: so it goes 1,2,3,4,5,10,20,40,80, etc (Not real numbers, just illustrative) |
| 20:50.06 | krka | ah, i see |
| 20:50.15 | krka | right, i should think "STL vector" |
| 20:50.40 | Iriel | So anyway, you want the "last" allocation before a GC run to be as small as possible |
| 20:50.51 | Iriel | thus you have to make sure it's not a big-table-growth |
| 20:52.47 | krka | true... so allocate a string in the end |
| 20:52.55 | Iriel | well, no |
| 20:53.03 | Iriel | just keep allocating tables like my code shows |
| 20:53.15 | krka | a string wouldn't be smaller? |
| 20:53.31 | Iriel | I'm not sure, I dont know what the interning overhead is |
| 20:53.44 | Iriel | ANyway, you're almost certainly NOT able to allocate a small string that doesnt already exist |
| 20:53.53 | Iriel | (not reliably, anyway) |
| 20:54.23 | krka | make a very weird string |
| 20:54.27 | krka | "asdasdyigfa20et9+qtrq29e9aqdf" or something |
| 20:55.19 | wereHamster | Iriel, strings in lua are unique.. as far as I know.. so s1="foo";s2="foo" will create two strings.. |
| 20:55.39 | Iriel | You're wrong. |
| 20:55.50 | Iriel | But thanks for playing 8-) |
| 20:56.24 | krka | indeed |
| 20:56.32 | krka | string in lua are kinda like in java |
| 20:56.46 | Iriel | Well, 'like in java if you intern them all |
| 20:56.58 | krka | hmm... does this mean that s1 == s2 in lua is just a pointer comparison? |
| 20:57.06 | Iriel | I think so |
| 20:57.32 | krka | that's kinda cool |
| 20:59.29 | Iriel | The source seems to imply it's just a comparison of gc pointers. |
| 21:00.11 | Iriel | Since lua objects are essentially a union of pointer to gc object, void *, lua_Number, and int |
| 21:00.11 | krka | makes sense |
| 21:00.50 | Iriel | If the objects are the same type it's just a switch statement and an == |
| 21:01.20 | Iriel | Obviously comparisons like number-to-string require more work |
| 21:02.34 | krka | yeah |
| 21:03.06 | krka | wouldn't a lua object need to be a struct of {type, data}? |
| 21:03.40 | Iriel | it is |
| 21:03.48 | Iriel | I was trying to skip that bit 8-) |
| 21:03.59 | Iriel | since I said 'essentially' 8-) |
| 21:04.24 | Iriel | It's typedef struct lua_TObject { int tt; Value value; } TObject; |
| 21:04.29 | Iriel | int tt is the type |
| 21:04.44 | zeeg | Now is your chance to become a member of Blizzard! We are currently looking for talented individuals to work on Blizzard games in our Spanish QA and Localization teams. |
| 21:04.52 | Iriel | and Value is typedef union { GCObject *gc; void *p; lua_Number n; int b; } Value; |
| 21:04.54 | zeeg | euSP maybe? |
| 21:04.56 | zeeg | euES |
| 21:05.00 | zeeg | :P |
| 21:05.01 | zeeg | its coming! |
| 21:05.03 | krka | typedef union onion! |
| 21:05.14 | krka | no wait, can't do that.. |
| 21:05.17 | krka | #define |
| 21:05.20 | Iriel | #define union onion |
| 21:05.23 | Iriel | I think is what you want |
| 21:07.46 | krka | 10 megs physical mem free when running wow, xchat and azureus |
| 21:07.47 | krka | sweet |
| 21:11.02 | krka | no wait, i want #define onion union |
| 21:11.12 | Iriel | Good point |
| 21:11.26 | Iriel | though the other way around could be amusing |
| 21:13.06 | krka | would just break stuff |
| 21:13.21 | Iriel | depends if you use unions or not 8-) |
| 21:16.56 | krka | true |
| 21:17.01 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 21:17.23 | krka | 31g at level 37... not gonna have 90 by 40 |
| 21:19.31 | elema | cya guys and have a good night |
| 21:20.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge futr-sleep (n=not@port0254-abl-adsl.cwjamaica.com) |
| 21:23.18 | krka | anyone up for a discussion on how to implement object orientation? |
| 21:23.31 | futr-sleep | again? ;'] |
| 21:24.25 | krka | well, the current methods don't seem to allow private variables |
| 21:24.33 | krka | and the possibility of plain hooking |
| 21:24.36 | Iriel | They do, but they're tricky to implement |
| 21:24.47 | Iriel | well, more 'messy' than 'tricky' |
| 21:25.41 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/543895 |
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| 21:25.44 | krka | that's my suggestion |
| 21:25.47 | krka | any downsides? |
| 21:26.07 | Iriel | Yes, you create unique function instances for every object |
| 21:26.24 | krka | only unique closures |
| 21:26.36 | krka | the function definition is only stored once, afaik |
| 21:27.06 | Iriel | You know i've always wondered how that actually looks at runtime |
| 21:27.55 | krka | i can show you |
| 21:27.58 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/543899 |
| 21:28.20 | Iriel | That's compile time (but I already did that 8-) |
| 21:28.38 | krka | oh, right you are |
| 21:28.56 | krka | you'd think i know the difference between run time and compile time |
| 21:29.08 | krka | i figure a closure is just a function def + a list of locals |
| 21:29.42 | krka | the main advantage of this however, is the easier usage |
| 21:29.49 | krka | object.getA() instead of object:getA() |
| 21:29.59 | Iriel | that would be horrible to do though |
| 21:30.02 | krka | which means you can do: SetScript("sadasd", object.GetA) |
| 21:30.03 | Iriel | since it breaks the idiom |
| 21:30.32 | krka | what idiom? |
| 21:30.37 | Iriel | the method idiom |
| 21:30.45 | Iriel | You've invented an object with ONLY private methods |
| 21:30.56 | Iriel | which doesn't behave like normal objects |
| 21:31.00 | krka | no, only private variables |
| 21:31.07 | Iriel | sorry, yes, private variables |
| 21:31.13 | krka | public variables should be easy to add though |
| 21:31.16 | Iriel | But I think ultimately it would be confusing |
| 21:31.24 | Iriel | keep the : notation, even if you dont use 'self' |
| 21:31.30 | Iriel | just for consistency with everyone else |
| 21:31.56 | Iriel | I agree for things like script handlers, a closure with a local reference to something is helpful |
| 21:32.10 | Iriel | (In fact I do something similar in my own code) |
| 21:32.26 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/543907 |
| 21:32.27 | Iriel | But I wouldn't use that technique for 'OO code' |
| 21:32.49 | krka | well, i've seen a lot of coders get very confused by : |
| 21:32.58 | krka | they think self is something magical and use it in ways that don't work |
| 21:33.04 | Iriel | That's because they dont know the language |
| 21:33.16 | krka | yeah |
| 21:33.18 | Iriel | A good language technique should work for those who DO know the language |
| 21:33.20 | Iriel | not those who DONT |
| 21:33.38 | Iriel | offering the clueless a crutch just sets them up for continued failure for life |
| 21:33.42 | krka | well, lua seems to try to be nice to newbies |
| 21:34.01 | Iriel | indeed |
| 21:34.08 | Iriel | being nice to people who are new is good |
| 21:34.14 | Natasem | LOL Make your own WoW weapon! http://wow.blupp.net/item.php?id=30494 |
| 21:34.16 | Iriel | being nice to people who are WRONG, on the other hand, is dangerous |
| 21:34.58 | krka | ok, but the main problem with using my technique would be the overhead of closures? |
| 21:35.31 | Iriel | That's the only downside I can think of, you have to instantiate all of the closures in each table. |
| 21:35.44 | Iriel | It's messier than the normal meta approach |
| 21:36.01 | Beladona | ugh |
| 21:36.05 | krka | messier? |
| 21:36.15 | krka | messier for the run time environment, the coder, or the user? |
| 21:36.32 | Iriel | yeah, you have to 'DO' stuff to each object, you fill it with entries (which you also have to 'pay' for) |
| 21:36.42 | Iriel | it's fast in the runtime environment |
| 21:37.01 | krka | don't you have to fill it with entries in all cases? |
| 21:37.11 | Iriel | No |
| 21:37.18 | krka | they don't magically fill themselves you know .P |
| 21:37.36 | Iriel | PROTO_OBJECT = { -- Full of methods -- }; |
| 21:37.44 | Iriel | PROTO_META = { __index = PROTO_OBJECT }; |
| 21:37.54 | Iriel | newObject = {}; setmetatable(newObject, PROTO_META); |
| 21:38.29 | krka | ok, you're talking about the memory penalty for actually storing stuff in the tables? |
| 21:38.29 | Iriel | the meta indirect is very fast (still slower than direct entries, granted) |
| 21:38.33 | Iriel | yes |
| 21:38.38 | krka | then i don't object |
| 21:38.56 | Iriel | Now, you can avoid that with a different, but more involved, approach |
| 21:41.05 | krka | i conclude that my way is nicer for the coder and the metatable-way and/or :-way is better for the system |
| 21:42.14 | krka | also, private variable lookup should be MUCH faster than a public variable lookup |
| 21:42.24 | Ktron | data DVDs will save my hard drive space forever heh |
| 21:43.35 | Iriel | krka: http://wow.pastebin.com/543925 |
| 21:44.05 | Iriel | As a developer, having to define all my methods inside a function is mildly bothersome |
| 21:44.16 | Iriel | Oops, one sec |
| 21:44.30 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/543928 |
| 21:44.31 | Iriel | There |
| 21:44.47 | krka | why is that bothersome? |
| 21:45.02 | krka | PRIVATE_DATA[object] = 3; |
| 21:45.07 | krka | shouldn't that be {}? |
| 21:45.33 | krka | also, that is still slower than my approach |
| 21:45.36 | Iriel | Ack, a second one |
| 21:45.41 | krka | for fetching the private variables |
| 21:45.47 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/543930 |
| 21:45.47 | Iriel | There |
| 21:45.48 | Iriel | yes |
| 21:45.53 | krka | upvalues are fast, tables are not quite as fast |
| 21:45.55 | Iriel | that will be slower for the fetch |
| 21:46.04 | Iriel | You'll get no dissent from me there |
| 21:46.15 | krka | could number-index the privates though |
| 21:46.28 | Iriel | that would be unmaintainable, and pointless |
| 21:46.33 | krka | don't you have to create PRIVATE_DATA[object] somewhere? |
| 21:46.37 | krka | not really |
| 21:46.47 | krka | local privateA_INDEX = 1 |
| 21:46.49 | Iriel | it's automatically created |
| 21:46.53 | krka | local privateB_INDEX = 2 |
| 21:47.03 | Iriel | but why would you bother with that? |
| 21:47.09 | Iriel | If you're going to use a table, use it as a table |
| 21:47.13 | Iriel | otherwise use upvalues |
| 21:47.24 | krka | but that won't work for your method |
| 21:47.24 | Iriel | a compromise would be to make the private storage a table upvalue |
| 21:47.53 | Iriel | the gain of integer keys is only realizes if they're ALL present anyway |
| 21:47.55 | krka | ah, metatable for private_data, missed that |
| 21:48.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@c-67-160-147-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:48.23 | Iriel | at least, all up to the highest one used |
| 21:48.37 | krka | really? |
| 21:48.44 | krka | so if there's a gap, it breaks? |
| 21:48.51 | Iriel | Mostly |
| 21:48.55 | krka | O_o |
| 21:48.55 | Iriel | it dpeends where you start |
| 21:49.08 | Iriel | if you do T = {}; T[1000] = "Hello" |
| 21:49.09 | krka | i can understand if the gap = big number |
| 21:49.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@203.184.58.81) |
| 21:49.32 | Iriel | I believe it looks to see if it can fit the next index in its current array, but it may be slightly smarter than that |
| 21:49.47 | Iriel | but I dont think T={}; T[10]="hello"; goes to array form, it uses hash form. |
| 21:49.56 | id` | :p |
| 21:50.00 | krka | makes sense |
| 21:50.23 | krka | do you know when / if it converts back from / to hash-form? |
| 21:50.37 | krka | if i first fill t[1, 1000] and delete stuff in the middle? |
| 21:50.50 | krka | does it become hash after the first delete or after lua has had enough? |
| 21:50.56 | krka | and does it convert back if i fill it up? |
| 21:51.25 | krka | note to self, when clearing an integer key-table, go from the top and down |
| 21:51.48 | Iriel | well, no, once you've allocated it, it works in array form |
| 21:52.11 | Iriel | unless you need to resize the table |
| 21:52.12 | krka | once you've allocated? |
| 21:52.14 | Iriel | then it can change |
| 21:52.18 | krka | hm |
| 21:52.30 | Iriel | T = {}; for i=1,100 T[i]="hello end for i=1,100 T[i]=nil; end |
| 21:52.45 | krka | so only if it needs to grow bigger does it consider moving to hash |
| 21:52.47 | Iriel | As long as you use indices in 1-100 it should happily work in array mode |
| 21:52.52 | krka | and once in hash, it never looks back |
| 21:56.11 | Iriel | It will look back under some circumstances |
| 22:01.38 | Iriel | It'll go back from hash to array if it needs to resize itself and the ratios are right (I didn't fully delve into their math) for array mode |
| 22:02.33 | Iriel | meeting time |
| 22:05.23 | Beladona | homeward! |
| 22:05.35 | Kolth | Yay! |
| 22:09.22 | Cide- | hmm, Iriel: do you have the code for the caching of the frames for CTRA? I was going to implent it now, but I've lost the post |
| 22:11.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
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| 22:24.22 | futrtrubl | damn, normal long post patch connection times |
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| 22:31.29 | Cairenn | okay, someone upload a file to the site, pretty please? |
| 22:31.54 | futrtrubl | sorry, cair, I have nothing ready |
| 22:32.21 | Cairenn | " WoWInterface Downloads Statistics Files: 666" |
| 22:32.25 | futrtrubl | well, I could upload a file and then delete it. that alright? |
| 22:32.44 | Cairenn | <insert twilight zone theme here> |
| 22:33.10 | futrtrubl | ahhhhhhh ;'] |
| 22:34.39 | Cairenn | btw futrtrubl, remember when I asked you about the reasoning behind you getting your own site? now you know why :) |
| 22:41.07 | Kolth` | Anyone know what time zone Eitrigg is in? |
| 22:44.23 | Cairenn | sorry Kolth, not I |
| 22:48.38 | AnduinLothar | My Name. Who said MY name?! |
| 22:51.16 | AnduinLothar | mmm, meh |
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| 22:58.30 | zeeg | err |
| 22:58.31 | zeeg | wth |
| 22:58.36 | zeeg | aren't the DBCs stored in the patch.mpq? |
| 22:59.47 | zeeg | grr i forgot how to extract em with this tool |
| 23:02.05 | ScytheBlade1 | DBCs? |
| 23:02.32 | zeeg | ya |
| 23:02.39 | ScytheBlade1 | What are those exactly? |
| 23:02.44 | zeeg | DataClientFiles or w/e |
| 23:02.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh, lol |
| 23:03.03 | ScytheBlade1 | What tool are you using to extract them? |
| 23:03.17 | zeeg | oh nvm |
| 23:03.17 | zeeg | i had .m2 selected |
| 23:03.23 | zeeg | wowguru's toolkit |
| 23:03.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
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| 23:58.23 | zeeg | 15:57:20 up 55 days, 4:33, 3 users, load average: 0.67, 0.97, 1.04 - Currently Active Users: 4825 (43 members and 4782 guests) |
| 23:58.24 | zeeg | haha |
| 23:58.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 23:58.40 | Guillotine | hey Cair. I really like the new portals :D |
| 23:59.02 | Tain | The new portals are kickass. |
| 23:59.02 | AnduinLothar | portals, meh? |
| 23:59.14 | zeeg | new portals? |
| 23:59.35 | Guillotine | zeeg: www.wowinterface.com |
| 23:59.40 | Guillotine | top news item |
| 23:59.42 | Guillotine | their awesome :D |
