| 00:00.05 | Legorol | wow, then you are infinitely lucky! |
| 00:00.10 | Legorol | literally |
| 00:00.14 | Tain | heh! |
| 00:00.23 | Tain | I bet I still have the 2 pieces in the bank on some char. |
| 00:00.41 | Iriel | It can't be 0% if you've actually GOT it |
| 00:00.45 | AnduinLothar | ya, that's where mine are |
| 00:01.15 | Cide | Eye of Shadow had a .1% drop rate in Winterspring, round that off and you get 0% ;) |
| 00:01.29 | AnduinLothar | well all the ones thta list it on thottbot are npcs or have 0% |
| 00:01.37 | Maldivia | Cide: yes, but I mean when putting it all in one string, something like: c[color] l[start][stop] l[start][stop] l[start][stop] |
| 00:01.58 | Iriel | Well, a line is more like l[start][next][next][stop] |
| 00:02.06 | Iriel | depending on which drawing mode you use |
| 00:02.12 | Tem | What do the map fragments acutally give you? |
| 00:02.24 | Legorol | i bet, a map! |
| 00:02.26 | Legorol | am i right? |
| 00:02.29 | AnduinLothar | a map and a quest |
| 00:02.42 | Legorol | time to play! |
| 00:02.45 | Ktron_ | and the quest gives you... another map fragment, for an even bigger map! |
| 00:02.48 | Tain | To a buried treasure! On an island! Where X marks the spot. |
| 00:02.54 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 00:03.09 | Iriel | Tem: get methods would be needed if you want to create multiple textures based off of one template texture |
| 00:03.09 | Ktron_ | Is this the treasure chest thing near BB? |
| 00:03.09 | Tain | Probably a kidnapped princess too. |
| 00:03.12 | Iriel | Tem: At runtime |
| 00:03.51 | Tem | Iriel: yeah I guess it wasn't really a question but a veiled request |
| 00:04.00 | Iriel | He gave us get methods tho |
| 00:04.05 | Tem | oh? |
| 00:04.08 | Tem | I missed that |
| 00:04.52 | Tem | I don't see them |
| 00:05.26 | Tem | Unless you are talking about GetBlendMode and GetVertexColor |
| 00:05.39 | Tem | I'm talking about Button:GetNormalTexture ... |
| 00:05.52 | cladhaire | Oooh... Tem I'm very excited about your mod now =) |
| 00:05.57 | cladhaire | not that i wasn't before =) |
| 00:06.03 | AnduinLothar | apparently i need the captains key too which just dropped on the mob after the map fragment |
| 00:06.09 | Tem | :) |
| 00:06.21 | Tem | AnduinLothar: what does that actually get you? |
| 00:06.45 | Iriel | Tem: Ah. |
| 00:06.55 | Iriel | Tem: Your post isn't clear 8-) |
| 00:08.01 | AnduinLothar | apparently some random loot, one of which is a unique Troll Hide 14 slot bag |
| 00:08.03 | Tem | I'm fixing it |
| 00:08.14 | Tem | done |
| 00:08.46 | AnduinLothar | and it's on the southern tip of tanaris you have to swim to get to |
| 00:09.16 | Tem | sounds pretty lame for something that hard to finish |
| 00:09.29 | AnduinLothar | it's a lvl 40 something quest |
| 00:09.40 | Tem | I suppose... |
| 00:09.52 | AnduinLothar | not like i've been grinding it for a year. i gave up after a month |
| 00:10.09 | AnduinLothar | just happened to be here cause it was he closest place with water |
| 00:11.24 | cladhaire | Question: Did they add a "background" to the default party interface in the most recent patch (I'm diffing the XML now but figured I'd ask) |
| 00:11.40 | Maldivia | think so |
| 00:11.41 | AnduinLothar | yes' |
| 00:11.51 | Maldivia | in 1.8 or 1.9 |
| 00:11.54 | AnduinLothar | 1.9 |
| 00:12.19 | AnduinLothar | when they added the advanced interface options tab |
| 00:12.31 | Tem | ... |
| 00:12.40 | cladhaire | hrm.. wonder why i dont see it |
| 00:12.44 | Tem | I'm getting 0.01 frames per second |
| 00:13.10 | Maldivia | so am I... and some :) |
| 00:13.26 | Iriel | 100 seconds per frame? What on earth are you doing? |
| 00:13.39 | Tem | I have no idea |
| 00:13.47 | Tem | now I'm up to 53 fps |
| 00:13.57 | Tem | (while staring at a wall not attempting to do anything) |
| 00:14.37 | Maldivia | windowed mode, having the mouse over the taskbar in windows, so a windows-tooltip was covering some of the wow window ? |
| 00:15.44 | Tem | close |
| 00:15.49 | Tem | I am using windowed mode |
| 00:16.02 | Iriel | Ooh.. guild wars changes today, finally whole party teleport! |
| 00:16.03 | Tem | but I was also in the process of closing firefox and eclipse |
| 00:16.13 | Tem | hmm? |
| 00:17.01 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:17.03 | Tem | 5 hour AV Q |
| 00:17.30 | Natasem | lol my server there is no que for most of the BG's cuz no one runs the BG's |
| 00:17.51 | Iriel | Well, when nobody runs them, there's an infinite queue |
| 00:18.14 | Tem | I'm just really disappointed with the whole BG system |
| 00:18.23 | Tem | I really like running them, but people don't sign up on my server |
| 00:18.27 | Tem | so the waits are really long |
| 00:18.43 | Tem | s/people/horde/ |
| 00:18.50 | Iriel | It's a tough one, they really need to work out some kind of bot system |
| 00:19.13 | Tem | bots would stink |
| 00:19.21 | Iriel | unless they were good |
| 00:19.30 | Iriel | tricky to do well tho |
| 00:19.34 | Tem | unless they gave them out of this world gear |
| 00:19.39 | Tem | and made them really smart |
| 00:19.49 | Iriel | That would be an interesting solution to cross-world BG's |
| 00:19.58 | Iriel | players from one realm replresented in the other as bots |
| 00:20.00 | Iriel | and vice versa |
| 00:20.15 | Iriel | so it's still standard player versus player, but avoids all the naming issues, etc |
| 00:20.18 | cladhaire | That could be fun |
| 00:20.25 | cladhaire | it'd be faction farming.. but that's all it is anyway |
| 00:20.39 | Iriel | I dunno, I enjoyed AB the few times I did it |
| 00:20.47 | Tem | you mean you would play as normal |
| 00:20.51 | Iriel | if it was always available quickly i'd be inclined to play more |
| 00:21.05 | Tem | but you would be controlling a bot on some other server |
| 00:21.11 | Iriel | Yes, you'd play as normal, but if they had to bring in people from other servers, they'd be represented as a similar, but different, avatar |
| 00:21.23 | Iriel | same gear, perhaps, but it could look entirely different, and be called whatever |
| 00:21.38 | Tem | well I think the main problem would still be that there are many many more alliance than horde |
| 00:21.39 | cladhaire | I like the idea.. and I really enjoy AV.. its fun to play something like DoTA from the first person perspective =) |
| 00:21.50 | cladhaire | Tem: roll on Kael'thas.. we can't get alliance to queue = |
| 00:21.50 | cladhaire | ( |
| 00:22.03 | Tem | is that a PVP server? |
| 00:22.14 | cladhaire | no |
| 00:22.28 | Tem | if I ever re-roll it's going to be on a pvp server |
| 00:22.49 | cladhaire | Understandble.. someone talked me into going on this server, against my wishes.. but I love it there. |
| 00:23.17 | Tem | hmm cladhaire your guild regularly raids BWL, yes? |
| 00:26.50 | Cide | my guild does, Tem... why? |
| 00:27.08 | Corrodias | ah, naming issues, yes.. |
| 00:27.12 | Tem | well If he wants me to reroll on his server... |
| 00:27.37 | Corrodias | "if I ever re-roll it's going to be on a pvp server".. why the heck would anyone say that? |
| 00:27.48 | Beladona | I might be interested myself |
| 00:28.00 | Tem | because I would really like to try out a pvp server |
| 00:28.01 | Beladona | getting bored of the lack of people to play with on Draka |
| 00:28.07 | Corrodias | you really have to like pvp and, in fact, like dying/losing to play on a pvp server |
| 00:28.14 | Legorol | Beladona, i am sorry i abandoned you guys :( |
| 00:28.15 | Beladona | and since my first server was pvp, I know what I am doing |
| 00:28.52 | Corrodias | i enjoy neither, which is why i am not on a pvp server :) |
| 00:28.57 | AnduinLothar | ya. i've been 60 on my pvp server for a year now |
| 00:29.00 | Beladona | which side was it? alliance? |
| 00:29.09 | Iriel | I'd be on draka a bit more but the queues kinda kept me away (Plus i've been working more than normal) |
| 00:29.10 | Legorol | I like PvP servers, probably because I can cope with being ganked |
| 00:29.13 | AnduinLothar | but i cant stand most pvp |
| 00:29.13 | Legorol | emotionally that is |
| 00:29.35 | Tain | I get a queue every time I try to log in to Draka, and I don't wait. |
| 00:29.37 | AnduinLothar | ya, getting ganked late at nigth really destroys my mood |
| 00:30.50 | Tain | Which is too bad, I was having fun playing a hunter for the first time. |
| 00:31.06 | Corrodias | you should try waiting. |
| 00:31.17 | Ktron_ | yeah, I remember people on this channel freaked out though when I suggested there should be a range of levels that can freely attack each other, like +-7 or 8 or 10, but that's it |
| 00:31.18 | Legorol | how many people regularly play on Draka? |
| 00:31.22 | Beladona | I haven't had queus lately |
| 00:31.24 | Beladona | on draka |
| 00:31.36 | Tain | Almost every night I try to log in at least once. |
| 00:31.43 | Ktron_ | But people were like "OMG I NEED TO BE ABLE TO T3H GANKS TO FEEL LIKE A MAN!" |
| 00:32.00 | Legorol | Ktron_, the real issue is that what do you do if someone low level attacks you? |
| 00:32.10 | Iriel | Ktron_ : That causes problems tho, what if you're in a mixed-level group |
| 00:32.16 | Tain | If I'm testing something I keep trying servers until I find one with no queue. If I'm just wanting to play I quit and play City of Villains instead. |
| 00:32.35 | Iriel | Ktron_ : You end up with a situation where one of your group members comes under attack, but you can't help them. that would suck. |
| 00:32.40 | Legorol | lol sounds like most people here actually "play" WoW just to code it |
| 00:32.56 | TrickyR | I'm on Draka, I have a 33 pally |
| 00:33.00 | Tain | I mostly do these days, Legorol. |
| 00:33.12 | Ktron_ | I think the rules were suggested that you can always attack players over you, but if you do you get marked like 'full pvp' (fair game for everyone) instead of a limited pvp... also, if someone attacks someone in your group, you can attack the attacker and defend your group |
| 00:33.14 | Iriel | I float between the two modes of play/code |
| 00:33.23 | Beladona | there are ways to solve that |
| 00:33.38 | Corrodias | you're getting into complicated rules here |
| 00:33.41 | Legorol | Ktron_, that's not quite good either |
| 00:33.43 | Iriel | Ktron_ : So what's to stop people using VASTLY level imbalanced groups for gankage? |
| 00:33.48 | Legorol | let's say i'm 60 and i am grouped witha 20 |
| 00:33.54 | Legorol | another 20 who can't see me attacks my groupmate |
| 00:33.54 | Beladona | for instance, when in a group, you take on the ability to attack anyone +/- 8 levels of the highest and lowest level in the group |
| 00:33.56 | Legorol | can i then attack back? |
| 00:34.00 | Tain | I've got multiple 60s, did the runs through MC, and just got tired with it. |
| 00:34.00 | Beladona | same for raid |
| 00:34.03 | Corrodias | the only REAL issue is that people roll on pvp servers and then complain about dying |
| 00:34.12 | Ktron_ | Legorol, yes |
| 00:34.19 | Iriel | Beladona : Same issue as mine, group with L60 and L8, and you can attack everyone |
| 00:34.21 | Ktron_ | Legorol, that kind of ganking wouldn't really happen |
| 00:34.27 | Beladona | true |
| 00:34.31 | Legorol | true |
| 00:34.31 | Corrodias | wouldn't happen, eh? |
| 00:34.32 | Iriel | Ktron_ : It already does, people using 'bait' |
| 00:34.43 | Corrodias | because of the kindness and generosity of the average pvp-realm player, right? |
| 00:34.49 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:34.51 | Beladona | I don't think there really is a fullproof solution no matter what you do |
| 00:34.59 | Beladona | you just gotta learn to deal with the ganks |
| 00:35.08 | Legorol | i agree with Beladona here |
| 00:35.11 | Beladona | I got to where it didn't really bother me |
| 00:35.17 | Legorol | the only thing that's hard is to start a new char on an old server |
| 00:35.22 | Ktron_ | Baiting isn't really ganking that much-- I really only want to put an end to people who intentionally try to make quests impossible |
| 00:35.25 | Iriel | Beladona : That being what? L 60? |
| 00:35.27 | AnduinLothar | actually the ganking in Sithilis has really dropped since everyone's trying to rep with cenarian hold |
| 00:35.32 | Corrodias | Ktron_: then try a pve server :) |
| 00:35.38 | Beladona | no, I was used to it by 40 |
| 00:35.54 | Beladona | if I was questing in contested areas, I just had to accept that I might get whacked |
| 00:35.55 | Ktron_ | Corrodias, I want fair PvP w/o getting ganked while questing |
| 00:35.58 | Corrodias | i should say realm |
| 00:35.58 | Legorol | i do agree that something is not quite 100% right with PvP |
| 00:36.01 | Iriel | I stopped playing my L31 mage on Dark Iron because of gankage |
| 00:36.02 | Corrodias | "fair" pvp? |
| 00:36.03 | zespri | there is a perfect system. it's called PvE server. No ganking, consentual pvp |
| 00:36.10 | Corrodias | so rogues will not be allowed to attack anybody? lol |
| 00:36.14 | Beladona | of course, I was pretty mean though |
| 00:36.18 | Iriel | I love the thrill of a PvP server |
| 00:36.18 | Tain | The only good thing about starting a new char on an old server is the Auction House. :) |
| 00:36.26 | AnduinLothar | i get ganked less in sithilis walkign past 60 horde every other minute while soloing than i do in tanaris where the 60 horde biatches camp eveyone for sport |
| 00:36.28 | Legorol | There is one aspect of PvP i don't like, and that's not ganking |
| 00:36.34 | Beladona | I had a rogues attack me 4 and 5 times before they had a group large enough to handle me |
| 00:36.37 | Legorol | ganking is bored stupid idiots, you realise it and get over it |
| 00:36.44 | Legorol | what i don't like about the PvP system is the "escalation" |
| 00:36.50 | Ktron_ | zespri, PvE is boring, flat-- no one PvPs, people either duel or leave each other alone |
| 00:37.07 | Beladona | now people that gank at towns, THAT I can see as being gay |
| 00:37.08 | Legorol | you kill someone 2 leves below you, then them thinking it's a challenge and fighitng back, instead grab a friend +10 levels above you |
| 00:37.09 | Corrodias | that's why there are 1) battlegrounds and 2) quests and mobs |
| 00:37.11 | zespri | thrill of a PvP server is a thrill of being ganked I guess =) |
| 00:37.21 | Beladona | if you are gonna gank, make it interesting and stalk people in the wilds |
| 00:37.40 | TrickyR | you must be a rouge :) |
| 00:37.46 | Beladona | nope |
| 00:37.53 | Beladona | don't have a rogue |
| 00:37.56 | Legorol | i personally never attack anyone less than -2 my level |
| 00:38.02 | Ktron | At least if someone is 10 levels above you, you generally still have a chance to get away or do something |
| 00:38.03 | AnduinLothar | tho what IS fun is being a pally and ui testing in the middle of nowhere, have a rogure backstab me and try and gank me and rape his ass. |
| 00:38.15 | Ktron | level 60's in redridge or ashenvale is just _dumb_ |
| 00:38.16 | Corrodias | if you're a druid, yeah |
| 00:38.25 | Legorol | the sad part is taht when i do kill people +2/+3 levels above me, they run for their friends |
| 00:38.30 | Beladona | Tain: FYI, no Q on draka |
| 00:38.32 | Legorol | i mean come on, they could at least put some effort in |
| 00:38.42 | Legorol | that's what really saddens me |
| 00:38.44 | Ktron | There's a level 60 mage who just waits outside of TM on Eredar for hours every day and ganks everyone |
| 00:38.45 | Beladona | exactly Lego |
| 00:38.48 | Legorol | PvP servers are not about effort and challenge :( |
| 00:38.52 | Legorol | that's what i call escalation |
| 00:38.56 | Beladona | I like a challenge |
| 00:39.00 | Legorol | i don't care about being ganked |
| 00:39.04 | Legorol | very few people do, Beladona |
| 00:39.19 | AnduinLothar | ah, the challenge is ganking people in the capitol city of the other faction :-D |
| 00:39.21 | Beladona | that is why so many people gank |
| 00:39.25 | Legorol | exactly |
| 00:39.26 | Beladona | its the fast and easy way to feel uber |
| 00:39.29 | Tain | Yeah if everyone liked easy mode they'd all be Paladins. ;) |
| 00:39.38 | Legorol | 99.9% of people play on PvP to be able to gank and feel powerful |
| 00:39.44 | Corrodias | if you turn on your pvp flag, you can get plenty of pvp action in pve realms |
| 00:39.54 | Legorol | Paladin hasn't been easy mode for a long time now |
| 00:39.58 | TrickyR | Legorol, speaks the truth! |
| 00:40.01 | Corrodias | of course, the other guy gets to throw the first shot, but that's your "challenge" :) |
| 00:40.20 | Ktron | Losing at PvP is one thing, not paying attention and getting pwned by someone my level is less cool but still my fault-- having a level 60 epic-mounted run me down and kill me is just dumb |
| 00:40.20 | Legorol | that's why i like fresh Pvp servers |
| 00:40.34 | Legorol | as long as i stay relatively near the front of the levels, than i have people of my level to PvP against |
| 00:40.41 | Legorol | and they can't run for high level help, for once |
| 00:41.02 | Ktron | heh, I told people instead of eliminating it too they could just make it like a 25 or 50rep hit with all 4 major factions every time you do it or something |
| 00:41.30 | Legorol | I do think that a DK system against players would be a good idea |
| 00:41.30 | Ktron | So if you gank too much, you end up hostile with your own towns-- kind of an 'outlaw' thing |
| 00:41.35 | Legorol | now i know it has been hashed and rehashed many times |
| 00:41.41 | Legorol | the pros and cons of it etc. |
| 00:41.56 | Corrodias | so let me get this straight, Legorol... you dislike it when people get friends to scare you away when you're trying to keep them from accomplishing whatever they were doing when you attacked them? |
| 00:42.25 | Corrodias | wait, wait, what would the point of DK be? you want to discourage pvp on pvp realms? |
| 00:42.26 | Legorol | Corrodias, whoever said anything about trying to keep them away from doing what they were doing? |
| 00:42.39 | Legorol | if i see someone questing, i go up to them and wave |
| 00:42.40 | Legorol | and sit |
| 00:42.40 | Beladona | PVP adds that extra oomph that keeps the game interesting for me. Ganks are a small price to pay for that IMHO |
| 00:42.44 | Legorol | then the guy attacks me |
| 00:42.45 | Corrodias | well you attacked him, i can't imagine he's just standing around doing nothing |
| 00:42.47 | Legorol | i attack back, kill him |
| 00:42.52 | Legorol | he doesn't put effort in, he runs for help |
| 00:42.54 | Ktron | Corrodias, I played a PvE server all the way up to 57 and played around with my Pvp flag a lot, and the only time I ever had any excitement was at 20 running across the barrens from a level 40 druid in travel form |
| 00:43.12 | Iriel | If someone could come up with a DK system that also prevented 'baiting' then I'd be all for it. |
| 00:43.17 | Beladona | so do it back Lego |
| 00:43.26 | Legorol | and that's where escalation happens |
| 00:43.27 | Beladona | when he comes at you with friends, go get your friends |
| 00:43.30 | Legorol | no, i will never take part in escalation |
| 00:43.36 | Beladona | why not? |
| 00:43.36 | Corrodias | then you will lose |
| 00:43.37 | Legorol | i just leave |
| 00:43.41 | Beladona | I like world pvp |
| 00:43.43 | Iriel | I WISH escalation happened when I got ganked outside of SS |
| 00:43.48 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:43.49 | Iriel | That'd be good pvp |
| 00:43.50 | AnduinLothar | :) i just owned a warrior in the middle of gadget |
| 00:43.52 | Beladona | better than battlegrounds in some cases |
| 00:44.03 | Legorol | Beladona, because watching our mutual high levels friends duke it out on our behalf is not my idea of PvP |
| 00:44.05 | Beladona | I hope the expansion adds stuff that makes world pvp viable again |
| 00:44.07 | Legorol | i have been in group PvPs |
| 00:44.07 | Ktron | Iriel, how about if your party member is attacked, you still can't attack the unfriendly target but you can heal/buff your party member? |
| 00:44.14 | Legorol | when the 60s are fighting, 20s can do absolutely nothing |
| 00:44.16 | Iriel | If I come across someone being attacked lower than me, i'll jump in and defend |
| 00:44.18 | Legorol | that's why i don't like escalation |
| 00:44.26 | Iriel | Ktron : That's hopeless for most classes |
| 00:44.32 | Beladona | I have had some seriously satisfying pvp though |
| 00:44.35 | Beladona | pre-60 |
| 00:44.39 | Legorol | Iriel: even if that person actually has a chance on their own? |
| 00:44.42 | Ktron | Heh, ganking in towns is about as low as you can go imo |
| 00:44.42 | Corrodias | do the pvp realms still have DKs for killing town civilians? |
| 00:44.49 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:44.49 | Beladona | with players on both sides bowing to each other in the end |
| 00:44.50 | Iriel | Legorol : I'll watch, if they have a chance |
| 00:44.59 | Legorol | if i see someone being ganked, then yes i help |
| 00:45.05 | Legorol | if i think they have a chance, i don't |
| 00:45.13 | Legorol | and i don't expect to be helped in similar situation either |
| 00:45.18 | Legorol | because i'd like to test my strength |
| 00:45.26 | Natasem | Iriel: your assistance is needed again lol |
| 00:45.33 | Iriel | Now, if the fight is friendly L30 against enemy L15 |
| 00:45.34 | Legorol | i do expect to be helped when getting ganked |
| 00:45.35 | Iriel | then I wouldn't help |
| 00:45.39 | Iriel | Natasem : Oh? |
| 00:45.46 | ForgottenLords | 60 PvP ticks me off. it seems that everyone BUT me has epic gear and can oneshot me |
| 00:45.54 | Legorol | Iriel, what if you come across a friendly 19 being attacked by a 21 |
| 00:45.57 | Corrodias | ForgottenLords: you're absolutely correct |
| 00:45.57 | Legorol | do you interfere? |
| 00:46.01 | Ktron | Iriel, maybe a timer system, or a way to view who else is partied with your current target |
| 00:46.02 | Natasem | Actually you can automate a lot of stuff with Lua. I played with it a bit myself although I didn't try anything complex and I have seen a lot of fishing and at least one farming bot. I believe they have now removed some of the functionality to stop this. However even if hooks are now used instead of Lua it's the same problem and you are simply making my point. If you provide the capability... |
| 00:46.03 | Natasem | ...to mess with the client people are going to do it. It's stupid to complain about someone using a capability that you provided it the first place. |
| 00:46.07 | Legorol | what if you are level 25) 30) 40) 60) |
| 00:46.18 | Natasem | that is from teh guy that says there are UI bots |
| 00:46.24 | Iriel | I might spectate, and if the other person wins, they better leave |
| 00:46.32 | Iriel | if they stay around to corpse camp then i'd take care of it |
| 00:46.35 | Legorol | Natasem, wtf, where's that from? |
| 00:46.39 | Corrodias | and that guy should have been banned a long time ago, but blizzard barely moderates its forums, if at all |
| 00:46.48 | Legorol | Iriel, then you are my hero |
| 00:46.49 | Natasem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-realm-gilneas&t=105420&tmp=1#post105420 |
| 00:46.49 | AnduinLothar | ya, i only have 1 epic item... but i've been raiding 5 mans so long i have the best blues on the planet |
| 00:47.00 | Iriel | I believe in honor in PvP |
| 00:47.00 | Tain | There's no fishing bots without outside help. you don't need a lot of outside help, but you can't do it all internally. |
| 00:47.03 | Iriel | it's worthless without it |
| 00:47.05 | Legorol | 99.9% of people jump in and help friendlies on the grounds that "we gotta help our own folks" |
| 00:47.10 | Legorol | and it sucks donkey balls that they do that |
| 00:47.13 | Iriel | Natasem : The guy doesn't know what he's dealing with. |
| 00:47.22 | Iriel | Legorol : If they're in my GUILD then I might join in regardless |
| 00:47.27 | Iriel | Legorol : But that's a different issue |
| 00:47.35 | Iriel | Natasem : And nothing we say will fix that |
| 00:47.45 | Natasem | lol |
| 00:47.49 | Legorol | now i gotta read this thread, you made it sound too much fun |
| 00:47.59 | Iriel | I can't reply to it or i'd come along and join in |
| 00:48.08 | Corrodias | the basic fact is that the pve realms totally control pvp so you won't find a lot of excitement there and the pvp realms allow -almost- total freedom so you'll find a lot more "excitement" than you want |
| 00:48.22 | Corrodias | can they make "half-pvp" realms? :P |
| 00:48.26 | Iriel | Well, you find excitement and frustration |
| 00:48.31 | Natasem | Legorol: it started off asking why people zone in and out of BRS then morfed into a whole LUA Bot programs crap |
| 00:48.32 | Iriel | I dig the excitement |
| 00:49.01 | Beladona | frustration makes it more real |
| 00:49.08 | Iriel | sneaking through the edge of the barrens on a pvp server is 'real' |
| 00:49.11 | Corrodias | Blizzard doesn't complain. they just delete accounts. |
| 00:49.14 | Iriel | it feels tense, dangerous |
| 00:49.15 | Natasem | Corrodias: i want a full pvp relm. meaning i can gank my own faction if i want to |
| 00:49.17 | AnduinLothar | dude.... gnome in gadget name Jhordy Lapforge. LOL |
| 00:49.21 | Beladona | any MMORPG game with decent pvp has frustration |
| 00:49.22 | Ktron | The problem with the full pvp realms is that there's no reason for higher level characters to play defense-- you either need to limit pvp, or give incentives for higher level characters to defend territory |
| 00:49.28 | Corrodias | Natasem: ah, the "ffa" flag such as in the gurubashi arena? |
| 00:49.34 | Iriel | Some sort of turf war would be good |
| 00:49.36 | Natasem | ya |
| 00:49.37 | Iriel | in the world, that is |
| 00:49.39 | Corrodias | i totally want to be able to go /ffa and turn that son of a bitch on! |
| 00:49.51 | Iriel | not too extreme, but enough to give battles meaning |
| 00:49.55 | Natasem | agree |
| 00:49.55 | AnduinLothar | Anarchy Server |
| 00:50.11 | Natasem | a FFA server just like Darktide on Asherons Call |
| 00:50.23 | Fanook | Anduin: he's got a friend in BB, Scooty |
| 00:50.32 | Corrodias | whoa, a ffa -realm- would be interesting... watch those AoE spells! ;) |
| 00:50.32 | Beladona | that was brought up in a dev chat |
| 00:50.38 | Ktron | Even if its something like they put a 'mayor' type npc in every town and give some sort of buff/honor reward/cash reward for killing him or defending him |
| 00:50.42 | Beladona | the dev said they were looking into ways to revive world pvp |
| 00:50.51 | Beladona | with controllable areas and such |
| 00:51.05 | Corrodias | (stop the DKs for civilians for a start) |
| 00:51.12 | AnduinLothar | meh. class |
| 00:51.19 | Ktron | Beladona, controllable areas would be nice |
| 00:51.21 | Corrodias | you can't take over a town with anybody who values their rank :( |
| 00:51.37 | AnduinLothar | ya, that sucks |
| 00:51.46 | Iriel | well, the control point wouldn't have to be towns |
| 00:51.50 | Beladona | you can if none of the NPC in a controllable area are civilians |
| 00:51.55 | Ktron | But it has to be pervasive, it has to be omnipresent, otherwise its just a new glorified BG |
| 00:51.56 | AnduinLothar | u used to love getting 5 man 60's and Owning a starting town |
| 00:52.03 | Corrodias | wouldn't it be interesting if those "contested areas" could become horde/alliance areas |
| 00:52.08 | Iriel | maybe they'd be guard towers. |
| 00:52.15 | Beladona | they would Corrodias |
| 00:52.23 | Beladona | thats the whole idea of "controllable" |
| 00:52.32 | Iriel | a zone might be too big tho |
| 00:52.40 | Beladona | I an thinking outposts |
| 00:52.41 | Iriel | maybe split the contested zones into pieces |
| 00:52.43 | Beladona | small ones |
| 00:52.47 | Ktron | guard towers sounds awesome, and Iriel, yeah, they don't have to be in towns, they could add forts or camps or something, but that's more work, but it'd play better |
| 00:53.07 | Ktron | splitting contested areas makes a lot of sense |
| 00:53.13 | Iriel | having npc's of the "controlling faction" to guard and call out about invaders would make it fun, also |
| 00:53.21 | Ktron | maybe even make certain quests depend on whether you are controlling an area or not |
| 00:53.37 | Iriel | then there's no instant bounce-back, if you win it, you're helped in keeping it |
| 00:53.40 | Ktron | heh, real wars have borders and border guards, heh, WoW should too |
| 00:53.44 | Beladona | basically take a que from DAOC keeps in the fronteir |
| 00:53.46 | Corrodias | well, the normal quests would certainly be tough if the area is enemy-controlled |
| 00:53.49 | Beladona | same idea |
| 00:53.50 | Corrodias | but i take it that's the way it is now anyway |
| 00:54.01 | Iriel | less concentrated than a keep tho |
| 00:54.08 | Beladona | yeah |
| 00:54.18 | Iriel | I like the idea of the attack requiring several points to be taken |
| 00:54.23 | Beladona | I am thinking something like the Barrens Crossroads |
| 00:54.25 | Iriel | all at once, or in sequence |
| 00:54.33 | Ktron | Iriel, heh, that'd be very slick |
| 00:55.02 | Beladona | Iriel: similar to Onslaught (UT) |
| 00:55.03 | Natasem | ok ya'll i got to get goin have a great night |
| 00:55.26 | Iriel | Beladona : somethinng like that, yeah.. |
| 00:55.28 | Corrodias | byee |
| 00:55.36 | Iriel | Then there's some strategy involved in where you defend and attack |
| 00:55.37 | Corrodias | and we should get vehicles >:o |
| 00:55.39 | Ktron | Like "Destroy the bridges" then "take the fort" then "stop the riders from calling for help" or something |
| 00:55.54 | Corrodias | and a redeemer |
| 00:55.56 | Beladona | vehicles = mounts, forms |
| 00:56.03 | Ktron | yeah, we've got vehicles already |
| 00:56.09 | Iriel | I have a redeemer, it's called Eyes of the beast |
| 00:56.11 | Corrodias | i'm just making funny~ :) |
| 00:56.13 | Beladona | haha |
| 00:56.17 | Corrodias | your pet explodes? |
| 00:56.20 | Tem | I have a redeemer too it's called ToEP |
| 00:56.28 | Iriel | When it gets near a mage it does, but usually in a bad way |
| 00:57.08 | Iriel | I think it'd be cool if eyes of the beast let your pet carry bombs towards the enemy, drop them, then run away |
| 00:57.09 | Ktron | heh, this is getting sophisticated :) But at least having sections of zones controllable and some kind of border guards would make a lot of sense, with /yells from the guards when one is killed or something |
| 00:57.16 | Iriel | that neeeds to be a new engineering skill |
| 00:57.22 | Beladona | so um, what server was it that Cladhaire was talking about us re-rolling? |
| 00:57.30 | Corrodias | not unlike the current 'some place is being attacked' and all |
| 00:57.32 | Iriel | I think it had a 'k' in it |
| 00:57.40 | Beladona | yeah, looking at 3 |
| 00:57.51 | Legorol | i'm surprised Draka would still have queus |
| 00:57.57 | Legorol | it's not that new now, it should've died down |
| 00:58.08 | Legorol | what's your experience? |
| 00:58.14 | Iriel | Kael'thas |
| 00:58.16 | Beladona | it has, I haven't had them that much |
| 00:58.21 | Corrodias | i'm not sure i can imagine starting fresh on a new realm |
| 00:58.30 | Beladona | they also had a server move recently from Draka |
| 00:58.31 | Corrodias | i mean, how many raid schedules can you run? |
| 00:59.04 | Beladona | I dont have that problem, I went guildless on my 60 |
| 00:59.43 | Legorol | so, is the new raid schedule just because Blizz can't be bothred to fix all the bugs/holes/exploits with their previous raid id system? |
| 00:59.50 | Corrodias | yes |
| 00:59.53 | Legorol | if it is, shame on them |
| 01:00.02 | Beladona | why do you say that? |
| 01:00.03 | Legorol | if it's because they actually think this system is better, even more shame on them! |
| 01:00.11 | Corrodias | i still don't know what the previous problem was, really |
| 01:00.27 | Legorol | in a 24/7 online game where people can join in from anywhere in the world any time, |
| 01:00.37 | Corrodias | but the concensus on the forum (one that blue didn't bother to deny in the least) is that it was because they couldn't fix "cascading" |
| 01:00.39 | Legorol | forcing a particular schedule of their choice onto the players is really bad imo |
| 01:01.06 | Corrodias | and since i didn't start raiding months ago, i don't know what cascading is |
| 01:01.10 | Legorol | if they messed with schedule because they couldn't fix a bug, that's really annoying |
| 01:01.25 | Legorol | cascading is the idea of passing your raid id along to others, if i'm not mistaken |
| 01:01.38 | Legorol | it was being done on a guild level |
| 01:01.38 | Corrodias | fuck, i don't even know how raid ids work anyway |
| 01:01.49 | Legorol | at least that much i found out by asking people :D |
| 01:01.59 | Legorol | so i can explain that |
| 01:02.25 | Legorol | When a raid successfully kills the first boss in a large-scale raid instance, a unique id is generated |
| 01:02.26 | Corrodias | i THINK i know how you reset an instance... join a group with a new "leader".. that is, disband your group and remake it with someone as the "leader" who wasn't just a moment ago? |
| 01:02.38 | Ktron | What effectively happened is that cascading let guilds have multiple, for example, BWL instances running, so that the could finish one instance and join another, finish and join another, etc, and do BWL more than once a week |
| 01:02.44 | Ktron | or whatever the timer on it used to be |
| 01:03.11 | Corrodias | well, for one thing, i don't think there's any indication in-game of what a "raid instance" is...? |
| 01:03.14 | Legorol | (carrying on with raid id explanation) once the raid id is generated, it gets recorded on your character |
| 01:03.16 | Corrodias | i haven't seen one yet |
| 01:03.28 | Legorol | Corrodias, you used to be able to check your raid id via the interface |
| 01:03.32 | Legorol | and it was fairly common sense |
| 01:03.40 | Legorol | any of the famous, big, 20+ raid instances are |
| 01:03.49 | Corrodias | i don't know what they are, yet |
| 01:04.03 | Legorol | well, things like Onyxia, Molten Core, Zul Gurub i beleive |
| 01:04.09 | Legorol | although i have never been to those either :D |
| 01:04.10 | Tem | Legorol: AFAIK they messed with the schedule simply because they couldn't fix "cascading" (which I don't know what it is or how it works) |
| 01:04.10 | Corrodias | they do a fairly good job of introducing you to the game but they leave a lot of stuff to ambiguity, like how the hell raids work |
| 01:04.17 | Tain | haha wow this is a first for me, just got a response back from posting my resume on Dice/Monster/etc. from someone saying they wanted to do a mass mailing to companies for me (for money, I'm sure.) |
| 01:04.22 | Beladona | there were several problem inherent with the old system. One was that guilds could run the same raid several times by getting separate innstances going and hopping |
| 01:04.23 | Corrodias | i don't think there's ANYTHING in the manual about "raid instances" and "raid ids" |
| 01:04.25 | Legorol | Corrodias, you find it out when you get there |
| 01:04.32 | Corrodias | i fucking hate that |
| 01:04.34 | Legorol | by practical experience |
| 01:04.34 | Beladona | the other is that epic items were becoming more common as a result |
| 01:04.40 | Legorol | Corrodias, i agree |
| 01:04.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@adsl-63-204-72-176.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 01:04.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pagefault (i=pagefaul@69.156.36.71) |
| 01:04.49 | Legorol | about game mechanics, they should explain in the manual |
| 01:04.52 | Legorol | about content, they shouldn't |
| 01:04.56 | pagefault | nice |
| 01:05.00 | Corrodias | but according to what i know so far, raid id's arent supposed to save across the guild |
| 01:05.03 | Legorol | anyways, back to raid ids |
| 01:05.10 | Corrodias | therefore, different people in a guild SHOULD be able to run multiple instances |
| 01:05.12 | Legorol | no, they don't save across guilds |
| 01:05.15 | Legorol | no no |
| 01:05.16 | pagefault | I fixed WoW using so much CPU in the background, I wrote an app to set it to idle priority when it's not active |
| 01:05.19 | Legorol | you are mixing up two thigns |
| 01:05.38 | Tem | For the 7 day raids it really isn't an issue |
| 01:05.42 | Legorol | pagefault: i have a 3-line script written in Notepad that can do the same :p |
| 01:05.49 | pagefault | in lua? |
| 01:05.50 | Tem | but for ZG it annoys the crap out of me |
| 01:05.54 | pagefault | or something else? |
| 01:06.00 | Legorol | pagefault: no, vbscript, because that's what windows can run by default |
| 01:06.03 | pagefault | ah |
| 01:06.09 | Legorol | it's a .vbs file you can double-click to run |
| 01:06.15 | pagefault | I don't know such a language :) |
| 01:06.19 | Legorol | windows' default scripting engine understand vbscript and javascript only |
| 01:06.21 | Tem | care to share it? :) |
| 01:06.27 | Legorol | pagefault, you do know that you can script windows? |
| 01:06.31 | Legorol | it has a builtin scripting engine |
| 01:06.37 | Legorol | you write it in notepad, and doubleclick to run |
| 01:06.40 | Corrodias | there has got to be a web page that explains all this "raid" crap. *searches* |
| 01:06.41 | pagefault | yeah I know, but I don't know VBScript |
| 01:06.49 | Legorol | well, i have a little plugin.. |
| 01:06.51 | Tain | And WSH which isn't either of them. |
| 01:06.57 | Legorol | that adds Lua to the set of languages that the scripting engine understands :D |
| 01:07.07 | Legorol | so you can script Windows using Lua if you like ;-) |
| 01:07.08 | pagefault | a script would make more sense than this C program |
| 01:07.29 | Legorol | Tain: WSH = Windows Scripting Host, is the scripting engine's name |
| 01:07.38 | Tain | Also a separate language. |
| 01:07.41 | Legorol | no |
| 01:07.43 | Tain | yes. |
| 01:07.43 | Legorol | yes? |
| 01:07.46 | Legorol | what language |
| 01:07.49 | Beladona | its a mixture, that hooks into WMI |
| 01:07.56 | Legorol | never heard of a language called wsh |
| 01:08.06 | Legorol | Beladona, i don't get you |
| 01:08.09 | Tain | I don't know what MS calls it. |
| 01:08.11 | pagefault | heh I am attempting my first "GUI" in WoW |
| 01:08.21 | Beladona | lol, look it up on msdn |
| 01:08.25 | Legorol | yes, scripts runing under WSH have access to WMI |
| 01:08.28 | Legorol | i know what WMI is |
| 01:08.29 | zenzelezz | WSH: Windows Scripting Host |
| 01:08.42 | pagefault | usually all vbs are worms |
| 01:08.43 | pagefault | hehe |
| 01:08.46 | Beladona | wsh files can be vb or java |
| 01:08.51 | Beladona | its not it's own language |
| 01:08.58 | Legorol | that's what i thought too |
| 01:09.00 | pagefault | hehe |
| 01:09.04 | Legorol | but Tain said there is a language called wsh or something |
| 01:09.08 | pagefault | vbscript is a bit too powerful, I am looking it over |
| 01:09.13 | pagefault | you can do pretty much anything with it |
| 01:09.13 | Legorol | it's just basic |
| 01:09.22 | Legorol | pagefault, vbscript is just a dumb version of Visual Basic |
| 01:09.23 | pagefault | I mean from a security perspective |
| 01:09.33 | Legorol | well it has full access to windows |
| 01:09.43 | Legorol | nothing wrong with that, considering it was designed to script windows |
| 01:09.43 | pagefault | I mean it's good |
| 01:09.56 | Legorol | running a .vbs from an email is as dumb as running an .exe |
| 01:09.58 | Legorol | no more, no less |
| 01:10.03 | pagefault | yeah I would never do that |
| 01:10.05 | pagefault | but a lot of people do |
| 01:10.08 | Beladona | and you wonder why windows is insecure? |
| 01:10.18 | Legorol | that's not insecurity, that's people's stupidity |
| 01:10.20 | pagefault | if linux was popular it would be .sh scripts |
| 01:10.21 | pagefault | or .pl |
| 01:10.27 | Beladona | yes it is insecurity |
| 01:10.32 | Legorol | for example, Beladona, would you ever regularly use your machine with root account? |
| 01:10.33 | pagefault | get laid.pl |
| 01:10.38 | Beladona | all you need is a user running as Administrator |
| 01:10.38 | Legorol | no, because you know better |
| 01:10.38 | Iriel | Ah yes, but windows doesn't have the notion of 'executable' files |
| 01:10.45 | Legorol | Beladona, exactly |
| 01:10.47 | Tain | WSF - Windows Script Files |
| 01:10.47 | Iriel | At least, not USEFULLY |
| 01:10.51 | Legorol | it's user error, not system insecurity |
| 01:10.57 | Iriel | it's a bit of both |
| 01:10.58 | Beladona | if windows used the same principle of restricted user permissions, we wouldn't worry as much |
| 01:11.01 | pagefault | yeah you can't stop certain things from being executed on a per file basis |
| 01:11.05 | Iriel | Windows doesn't protect you by default |
| 01:11.06 | Legorol | Tain: wsf is a format for encapsulating scripts written in arbitrary language, to be run under wsh |
| 01:11.10 | pagefault | you will be able to do that in WinFS |
| 01:11.11 | Legorol | it's not a language by itself |
| 01:11.11 | Tain | Windows does, Beladona. It's the adminstrators that don't. |
| 01:11.14 | Tem | don't bother searching for anything on msdn |
| 01:11.24 | Tem | their search is more worthless than blizzard's forum search |
| 01:11.24 | Legorol | Beladona, it does use the same principle |
| 01:11.26 | pagefault | they are putting unix style permissions in vista |
| 01:11.29 | Legorol | nevertheless, people log in as admins |
| 01:11.33 | Legorol | what can you do |
| 01:11.37 | Beladona | Windows CAN, but windows has to run as administrator to do most things users need |
| 01:11.39 | Corrodias | "unix style permissions"? |
| 01:11.39 | Legorol | it's like saying that people keep logging in as root |
| 01:11.46 | pagefault | read/write/execute |
| 01:11.47 | Iriel | Even IF I log in as root |
| 01:11.50 | pagefault | for group/user/etc |
| 01:11.50 | Legorol | and then running scripts from their emails |
| 01:11.52 | Corrodias | WE HAVE THAT NOW! |
| 01:11.53 | Iriel | I can't "accidently" run xyz.sh |
| 01:11.59 | Iriel | unless I chmod it to make it executable |
| 01:12.01 | pagefault | how do you prevent executing a file? |
| 01:12.02 | Iriel | which is NOT the default |
| 01:12.13 | Legorol | ok, that's true |
| 01:12.16 | Corrodias | remove the "execute" permission in the filesystem for whatever users youre talking about |
| 01:12.29 | pagefault | NTFS doesn't support that |
| 01:12.30 | Tem | speaking of which |
| 01:12.35 | Legorol | so let's make all files in windows not executable by default in Windows |
| 01:12.40 | Tem | how do you recover from an umoun -A |
| 01:12.40 | Corrodias | it doesn't? *looks* |
| 01:12.40 | Legorol | in principle, doable |
| 01:12.41 | Tem | ? |
| 01:12.49 | Iriel | You mean umount -A ? |
| 01:12.50 | Tem | er, umount -A |
| 01:12.50 | Legorol | in fact i could probably set up my NTFS permissions so that that's the case |
| 01:13.05 | pagefault | NTFS is such an awful file system though |
| 01:13.06 | Corrodias | check the "read & execute: deny" box |
| 01:13.07 | Legorol | hm, Iriel, you gave me an idea |
| 01:13.08 | Iriel | Do you in fact mean -a ? |
| 01:13.08 | Beladona | you could |
| 01:13.15 | Beladona | the problem is you would have to KNOW to do so |
| 01:13.17 | Legorol | Corrodias, it's a bit more complicated |
| 01:13.27 | Tem | Iriel: I mean -A where "-A" means unmount everything |
| 01:13.28 | Legorol | i need to set it up so that files created by users are not executable by default |
| 01:13.28 | pagefault | I wish I could use reiserfs in windows |
| 01:13.33 | Legorol | unless the permission is specifically set |
| 01:13.37 | Iriel | Tem: That's -a on my O/S, anyway, you do mount -a |
| 01:13.41 | Tain | Of course ntfs enables you to restrict running an executable. |
| 01:13.44 | Corrodias | hmm. i wonder if that's possible... |
| 01:13.47 | Legorol | i think it is |
| 01:13.49 | pagefault | Tain, where do you do that |
| 01:13.55 | pagefault | I know how you can do it in system policies |
| 01:13.56 | Iriel | or -A I suppose |
| 01:13.59 | Beladona | you will run into huge amounts of problems Lego |
| 01:14.01 | Corrodias | but my point is, pagefault, that i just told you how to stop someone from executing a file |
| 01:14.04 | Tem | Iriel: I did this in cygwin so it's entirely possible that some things are different |
| 01:14.09 | Legorol | Beladona, yes i will :D |
| 01:14.15 | Iriel | Tem: Ah, quite possibly. |
| 01:14.23 | Legorol | i don't think that Windows as a system is inherently more insecure than Linux |
| 01:14.25 | Iriel | Tem: But try mount -A anyway |
| 01:14.26 | Beladona | Vista, supposedly will use it |
| 01:14.27 | Corrodias | if you say that doesn't work, then the system is faulty, and adding those "unix style permissions" would amount to fixing it, rather than giving it anything new |
| 01:14.28 | Legorol | i beleive that there are far more clueless users |
| 01:14.34 | cladhaire | Legorol: I do. |
| 01:14.35 | Beladona | true separation of admin and user groups |
| 01:14.40 | cladhaire | Windows is a heuristic operating system |
| 01:14.44 | Tem | mount isn't a valid command |
| 01:15.01 | Tem | at least not since I unmounted where it was |
| 01:15.14 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 01:15.19 | pagefault | Codayus, yes it works I was not aware, but they are changing the permission types in vista |
| 01:15.19 | Legorol | Beladona, i don't understand what you mean by true separation |
| 01:15.27 | Legorol | isn't admin and user group separated already? |
| 01:15.29 | Tain | I don't have an NTFS system in front of me, but I had to configure permissions to allow people to get through certain directories to subdirectories, but not be able to run/access files in the dirs in between. |
| 01:15.45 | Beladona | in Vista, users can run as restricted users, and still access programs they have access to |
| 01:15.50 | Iriel | Tem: Then you have a problem 8-) |
| 01:15.56 | Legorol | Tain: that's called "bypass traverse checking", and it's a system level right you can grant to users on an individual level if you wish ;-) |
| 01:15.57 | Beladona | and can run with admin permissions temporarily for some things |
| 01:16.03 | Iriel | Tem: If you unmounted the executable, you'd have to copy it somewhere you COULD reach |
| 01:16.09 | Tain | It doesn't work like that, Legorol. At least not with Windows 2000. |
| 01:16.14 | Tem | Iriel: yep sure do... What I did was reinstalled cygwin |
| 01:16.15 | Tain | The option is there, it simply doesn't function. |
| 01:16.15 | Corrodias | "run as..." |
| 01:16.22 | Beladona | similar to sudo in linux |
| 01:16.23 | Tem | so it's not a real issue |
| 01:16.25 | Legorol | Beladona: sorry i don't see what's new about that |
| 01:16.30 | Beladona | its not new |
| 01:16.32 | Legorol | that's already the case in Win XP too |
| 01:16.33 | Beladona | its just hnew to windows |
| 01:16.35 | Beladona | new* |
| 01:16.35 | Legorol | ? |
| 01:16.47 | Legorol | i can already run as regular user, use the programs i need to, |
| 01:16.50 | Corrodias | that's like saying that vista will have "icons"... |
| 01:16.50 | Beladona | it wasn't implemented effectively in windows xp |
| 01:16.56 | Legorol | and temporarily run a program as admin if i want to |
| 01:16.57 | Tem | the "run as" think that currently exists in Windows is a joke |
| 01:17.02 | Beladona | most progrtams require admin account to even run |
| 01:17.03 | Tain | Every desktop in my company (except systems people) is locked down, no users have admin rights. All users are able to run their programs. |
| 01:17.07 | Tem | s/think/mechanism/ |
| 01:17.09 | Beladona | in vista you won't |
| 01:17.10 | Legorol | Beladona, that's poor program design |
| 01:17.19 | Beladona | on both sides |
| 01:17.26 | Legorol | I don't think that's windows' fault, it's more of a fault of the history of windows |
| 01:17.34 | Beladona | I disagree |
| 01:17.38 | Tain | No Beladona, programs that require admin rights generally require a single thing. Access to a registry entry, write access to its own directory. |
| 01:17.41 | Legorol | programs written for past, less secure versions aren't compatible with a more secure environment |
| 01:17.42 | Legorol | full stop |
| 01:17.46 | pagefault | they should do it the way they did in OS X |
| 01:17.51 | pagefault | I think they did the whole admin/user thing the best |
| 01:18.04 | Tain | We grant specific permissions to allow programs to run, never user admins. |
| 01:18.07 | cladhaire | .. its straight Unix with sudo? |
| 01:18.10 | cladhaire | that's nothign special. |
| 01:18.13 | Corrodias | i think we should throw out our computers and pretend this whole digital revolution never happened. >_< |
| 01:18.14 | cladhaire | unless I mised something drastic |
| 01:18.29 | cladhaire | k k. |
| 01:18.31 | cladhaire | ready.. on 3! |
| 01:18.53 | Legorol | anyway, i still maintain that Windows is only less secure because of the far worse level of knowledge on users' part |
| 01:18.53 | Tain | No that's what it is, cladhaire. Well, sudo and another OSX "admin" layer of some sort. Because I somehow messed up the password sync on an OSX system. |
| 01:18.56 | Beladona | the point is, in linux, if the program needs something like that, it prompts |
| 01:19.02 | Beladona | windows it doesn't |
| 01:19.10 | Legorol | so why is that the operating systems fault? |
| 01:19.15 | cladhaire | .... |
| 01:19.18 | Legorol | in Linux, is it the OS that prompts you, or the program? |
| 01:19.23 | Beladona | I think I am done |
| 01:19.28 | cladhaire | are you kidding me? |
| 01:19.29 | Legorol | just answer that one question |
| 01:19.37 | Legorol | does the OS automatically prompt you, or does the program? |
| 01:19.40 | cladhaire | Neither, you have to explicity request permission |
| 01:19.40 | Beladona | no thats ok, you fell off the train of thought a while back |
| 01:19.44 | cladhaire | in OSX.. the OS prompts you tho |
| 01:19.47 | cladhaire | not the application |
| 01:19.53 | Tain | Er what? Apps don't prompt for permissions. |
| 01:19.53 | pagefault | you click the lock |
| 01:20.16 | Corrodias | that would be kinda nice, i guess |
| 01:20.17 | Tain | Neither does the OS, really. If you're talking about things like kde or gnome it's in the middle of the two. |
| 01:20.28 | Beladona | I will find you some articles that show you more easily what changes we are talking about |
| 01:20.29 | Legorol | I don't know much about Linux, that's why i am asking |
| 01:20.43 | Iriel | Time to go home! |
| 01:20.44 | Legorol | does a program in Linux prompt you for extra permissions, or does the OS? |
| 01:20.45 | cladhaire | the point is.. the default application in windows requires admin permissinos for the registry, etc.. whereas the opposite is the case in Unix. |
| 01:20.51 | Beladona | the OS |
| 01:20.54 | cladhaire | Legorol: neither.. the program just doesn't work. |
| 01:20.59 | Beladona | or a module thereof |
| 01:21.02 | Corrodias | "defautl application"? |
| 01:21.06 | Corrodias | *default. god. |
| 01:21.09 | Legorol | i don't get that term either |
| 01:21.15 | cladhaire | yeah.. a basic application |
| 01:21.17 | Legorol | what is a "default application"? |
| 01:21.22 | Tain | Like I said, we run all users as non-admins and all apps run. |
| 01:21.23 | cladhaire | just a standard windows program |
| 01:21.25 | Legorol | cladhaire, that's because it's poor, archaic program design |
| 01:21.30 | Corrodias | i can run practically anything on our lab computers as a regular user |
| 01:21.38 | Beladona | here is an example |
| 01:21.40 | Legorol | go on |
| 01:21.44 | Corrodias | i really don't know what you're talking about with these "default application"s that don't work |
| 01:21.45 | Beladona | when you install something as a user in linux |
| 01:21.49 | Beladona | you install it as you |
| 01:21.53 | Legorol | right |
| 01:21.55 | Beladona | unless you install it as admin |
| 01:22.00 | Legorol | and a properly written Windows program does the same |
| 01:22.06 | Beladona | in windows, the opposite is the case |
| 01:22.07 | Legorol | however, a program written 10 years ago wouldn't do that |
| 01:22.22 | Legorol | Beladona, i don't see how you can make arguments about OS security based on Application behaviour.. |
| 01:22.32 | Tain | You're talking about a cultural and educational difference Beladona, not a technical one. |
| 01:22.32 | cladhaire | Take an OS class. |
| 01:22.35 | cladhaire | you'll learn a lot. |
| 01:22.39 | Corrodias | i did take an OS class |
| 01:22.44 | Corrodias | you still have yet to explain what you mean |
| 01:22.47 | cladhaire | I wasn't speaking to you =) |
| 01:22.47 | Tain | I am an OS class. |
| 01:22.54 | Corrodias | you should be, since i asked you a question >_> |
| 01:22.58 | Beladona | I don't think we can esxplain this enough |
| 01:23.04 | Legorol | the example Beladona quoted is difference in *application* behaviour |
| 01:23.04 | Beladona | that is why I am looking for documentation |
| 01:23.08 | Legorol | not in *OS* behaviour |
| 01:23.12 | Beladona | it is both |
| 01:23.18 | cladhaire | Corrodias: I am referring to the concept of the registry.. in particular |
| 01:23.30 | Legorol | the registry has permissions set up, just like the filesystem |
| 01:23.34 | Beladona | applications program that way because it is the default behavior in windows |
| 01:23.35 | Corrodias | i think, Lebannen, she's saying that you can't install something just for yourself if you're an admin, in linux |
| 01:23.37 | cladhaire | COrrodias: the concept just plain doesn't exist in a unix context... with good reason |
| 01:23.39 | Tain | It isn't OS behavior. Unix would react the exact same way if people wrote apps poorly. |
| 01:23.41 | Corrodias | it HAS to be globally accessible |
| 01:23.46 | Legorol | a well-behaved windows app is only able to read from/write to sections of the registry the user has rights to acces |
| 01:23.47 | Corrodias | Lebannen -> Legorol |
| 01:24.01 | Lebannen | damn those beeps :) |
| 01:24.03 | Legorol | cladhaire, the registry doesn't have to be globally accessible |
| 01:24.17 | cladhaire | *sigH* |
| 01:24.20 | cladhaire | I understand that. |
| 01:24.20 | Legorol | a properly written windows program doesn't require more access to the registry than its own part |
| 01:24.20 | Corrodias | cladhaire: if you're talking about wordpad, let me assure you that wordpad runs absolutely fine for users without administrator privileges. |
| 01:24.22 | cladhaire | and I get your points |
| 01:24.26 | cladhaire | they're very valid points. |
| 01:24.31 | Beladona | it was poor planning and evolution |
| 01:24.38 | Beladona | in windows |
| 01:24.48 | Beladona | they are making the changes in vista, for the better |
| 01:24.48 | Legorol | i don't think it was planned, evolution and innovation tends to happen ;-) |
| 01:24.50 | Tain | It was poor documentation and best practices. |
| 01:24.51 | cladhaire | Corridias: I have no idea what you're trying to prove to me.. or what you object to so strongly.. i'll be completely honest =) |
| 01:24.53 | Beladona | and actually hired a linux dev to get there |
| 01:24.56 | Legorol | i agree with Tain |
| 01:25.02 | Legorol | it's poor practice on app programmers part |
| 01:25.10 | Corrodias | "<cladhaire> the point is.. the default application in windows requires admin permissinos for the registry, etc.. whereas the opposite is the case in Unix." |
| 01:25.15 | Legorol | the OS is perfectly fine *if* the app programmers did their job correctly |
| 01:25.17 | Corrodias | there is no "default application" which cannot be run as a user |
| 01:25.27 | Beladona | not true Legorol |
| 01:25.34 | Legorol | what on Earth is a "default application", i still don't get that term |
| 01:25.37 | Tain | Which is mostly Microsoft's fault for not pushing security more sooner. But the ability to do it has been there since Windows NT 3.51 |
| 01:25.43 | End | windows didn't start as multiuser, so historically it was assumed you could do -anything- ...linux/unix/whatever has historically been multiuser, and also it is usually pressured that you don't write with the assumption you are root... |
| 01:25.45 | Legorol | someone explain to me what the term "default application" means |
| 01:25.53 | Corrodias | i have no idea |
| 01:25.54 | cladhaire | Windows does not understand the concept of Least User Privs.. which is a big issue. |
| 01:25.54 | cladhaire | Ok |
| 01:25.54 | Legorol | Tain is correct |
| 01:25.56 | cladhaire | give me a fucking second. |
| 01:26.00 | Beladona | running with default apps, and nothing else in windows still gives scripts on the web and other virus type applications TOO much access |
| 01:26.06 | Legorol | it's a mindset/campaign/methodology fault, not a security fault |
| 01:26.21 | Beladona | and doesn't do much to provide the user with warning prompts or anything |
| 01:26.31 | Beladona | THAT is default in windows |
| 01:26.33 | Corrodias | all right, i agree with that point |
| 01:26.36 | Legorol | Beladona: only if you are logged in as administrator |
| 01:26.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:26.48 | Legorol | if you are logged in as a user, you can use every application that comes with Windows with no problem |
| 01:26.59 | Corrodias | you have to set it up carefully so that users don't have permissions to do anything destructive |
| 01:27.00 | Legorol | and not be exposed to security risks, except those due to bugs and security holes |
| 01:27.01 | Fanook | Legorol: admin is the default for a new system |
| 01:27.12 | Corrodias | maybe linux doesn't let users do much of anything by default while windows does |
| 01:27.16 | Beladona | I can pretty much tell you, from experience that MOST users run with admin |
| 01:27.20 | Beladona | period |
| 01:27.23 | Legorol | yes, i know that |
| 01:27.23 | cladhaire | What I mean by default application (poor wording, admittedly) is the standard application you can download from the web. On many machines, they work without a question, because the standard user has admin privs. On a default install, if you choose to give people non-admin access, they are unable to install some of these basic applications. The same is not the cast on a Unix system, because of the concept of Least User Privs. |
| 01:27.25 | Tain | Of course they have. That is changing. |
| 01:27.26 | Legorol | i never denied that, Beladona |
| 01:27.31 | Legorol | but as i said, that's the users fault |
| 01:27.41 | Legorol | it's like saying Linux is insecure because most users run logged in as root |
| 01:27.42 | Tain | Through education, not through technical leaps. |
| 01:27.43 | Beladona | do you run as a restricted user Legorol? |
| 01:27.50 | cladhaire | You can set it up in a different way.. but it is still the DEFAULT permission set for the operating system |
| 01:28.00 | Legorol | Beladona: i will be completely honest with you: no |
| 01:28.06 | Tain | No cladhaire, the reason you can't do it on a Windows system is because the apps are not written the way they should have been from the beginning. |
| 01:28.12 | Corrodias | cladhaire: -ah-. you're saying that a lot of people program their applications with the assumption that they will be run as administrators? |
| 01:28.14 | Legorol | and the reason is: i am not your average user, and i change admin-level settings way too often |
| 01:28.26 | zenzelezz | isn't the default first-user account in Windows [XP] a "power user"? |
| 01:28.26 | Legorol | but my significant others, i make them run as average users |
| 01:28.45 | Beladona | Legorol, the difference is, Linux TELLS you not to run as root |
| 01:28.49 | Beladona | and usually doesn't let you |
| 01:28.55 | Beladona | unless you make it |
| 01:28.57 | cladhaire | Corrodias: I am saying the operating system has a bad set of default permissions.. and I don't think thats historical.. its just plain a bad decision. |
| 01:29.30 | Tain | I still blame Microsoft for not pushing security more. But application developers can create applications that install and run as a normal user with no admin rights very easily. |
| 01:29.31 | Corrodias | if you're saying that users ARE able to run those programs, perhaps that is a bad set of default permissions |
| 01:29.45 | Corrodias | especially if they require admin privileges and yet you can run them as users |
| 01:29.46 | Tain | Some places are really starting to enforce that. Others are obviously not. |
| 01:29.51 | Beladona | this all started with the fact that Vista is taking on more unix-like permission sets |
| 01:29.58 | Legorol | Ok, I will concede the following points: |
| 01:30.00 | GenNMX | The operating system has "administrator" default permissions because the developers, as a majority, mostly insisted on it so they would have a far easier time porting their code from Windows ME to Windows XP. |
| 01:30.03 | cladhaire | Corrodias: Install windows.. what is the default user.. what is every user after the fact? |
| 01:30.05 | Beladona | including OS behaviors that fascillitate the use of restricted user account |
| 01:30.08 | cladhaire | Thats my point. |
| 01:30.08 | Beladona | for EVERYONE |
| 01:30.09 | cladhaire | Period. |
| 01:30.13 | Legorol | Default permissions and default "suggestive" behavoiur is too insecure on Windows |
| 01:30.19 | Corrodias | and a lot of us don't understand how unix differs from windows in permissions |
| 01:30.20 | Beladona | when you use vista, you should be a restricted user, no matter what |
| 01:30.23 | Beladona | just like linux |
| 01:30.26 | Legorol | I also agree that due to poor propaganda by MS, lot of programs are poorly coded |
| 01:30.26 | Corrodias | except in what the defaults are |
| 01:30.39 | Legorol | Just like Tain said, MS should've pushed security lot sooner |
| 01:30.47 | Tain | It's more marketing than technology. |
| 01:30.50 | Corrodias | cladhaire: it has been years since i installed a windows; i fear i don't remember |
| 01:30.58 | Tain | Tell people it's all new and they'll jump at it. |
| 01:30.58 | cladhaire | Corrodias: Well its true =) |
| 01:31.04 | Legorol | However, the point that I won't concede is that Windows is *less* secure, because security in my opinion is measured in what you can achieve with it, not what's the default |
| 01:31.05 | GenNMX | Windows XP didn't even come with a fully-functioning firewall, that was patched in SP2 |
| 01:31.08 | Corrodias | YES, windows' defaults are insecure. fuck, it comes with internet explorer. |
| 01:31.22 | Tain | The OS shouldn't come with a firewall, in my opinion. |
| 01:31.24 | Corrodias | linux doesn't "come with" a firewall, either. you have to "get" iptables. |
| 01:31.26 | Beladona | I won't argue |
| 01:31.28 | Corrodias | or some other similar thing |
| 01:31.34 | Beladona | I jsut know for a fact windows is less secure |
| 01:31.42 | Corrodias | you know it in your heart <3 |
| 01:31.47 | cladhaire | The default install ... correct =) |
| 01:31.52 | Tain | Beladona, that is just way too arbitrary a statement. |
| 01:31.52 | Legorol | Beladona, i fully conceded that *default* configuration, and *typical* usage pattern is less secure |
| 01:32.03 | Legorol | That does not equate to the OS as a whole being less secure |
| 01:32.06 | GenNMX | Corrodias: Most distros come with iptables and a firewall setup by default. "Windows XP" is a NT kernel distro ;) |
| 01:32.19 | Beladona | windows can be MADE more secure, but my point is, you shouldn't have to |
| 01:32.26 | Corrodias | god damn, GenNMX just outmaneuvered me >:( |
| 01:32.27 | Legorol | what? |
| 01:32.31 | Beladona | default windows should be secure out of the box |
| 01:32.37 | Legorol | you mean i shoulnd't have to configure my system? i will always have to configure my system |
| 01:32.46 | Beladona | forget it |
| 01:32.46 | Legorol | no system can be perfectly configured for individual needs out of the box |
| 01:32.47 | cladhaire | You shoudln't have to SECURE your system |
| 01:32.50 | Corrodias | i have to agree with Beladona on this one |
| 01:32.54 | cladhaire | You should have to configure it. |
| 01:33.00 | cladhaire | not hide it. |
| 01:33.12 | Corrodias | you should have to configure it to let you do stuff, not configure it to keep you out |
| 01:33.17 | Legorol | ok, i do agree with Beladona on what the out of the box behaviour shoudl be |
| 01:33.31 | Beladona | I don't care about configuration |
| 01:33.32 | Legorol | for example, out of the box, Windows shouldn't be creating admin-level users when you create a new user |
| 01:33.34 | Beladona | just security |
| 01:33.37 | Legorol | but instead create user-level ones |
| 01:33.50 | Corrodias | on the other hand, that's part of what makes windows more user-friendly, so to speak, that the stuff isn't as hidden. but what can you do, eh? |
| 01:33.52 | GenNMX | Actually my terminology isn't really correct, Windows XP isn't exactly an operating system, there's a name for the operating system on top of the NT kernel and I don't know what it's called. If you want, you can call it the "Windows XP Home/Pro Distribution" and "Windows XP Operating System" with the "NT Kernel" |
| 01:33.58 | Legorol | I also agree that the default security permissions on the system could be tighter |
| 01:34.01 | Tain | Which you do at least get prompted to today if you create a new user account on an XP system. |
| 01:34.18 | End | a friend of mine was installing windows...and the network cable was plugged in..he ended up reinstalling (this time unplugged from network) because it was quickly infected |
| 01:34.27 | Beladona | winnt |
| 01:34.30 | Beladona | is the os |
| 01:34.39 | Beladona | at the basic level |
| 01:34.43 | GenNMX | Like we have the "Debian Distribution" with the "GNU Operating System" and the "Linux Kernel" |
| 01:34.44 | Corrodias | lol @ end. |
| 01:35.15 | Beladona | there are like what? 4 viruses that can even work on linux? |
| 01:35.20 | Legorol | Beladona is correct, WinNT is the OS |
| 01:36.50 | Tain | That's what you get for putting any system on a network without being behind a firewall. |
| 01:36.50 | Legorol | which is shared between W2K, WXP, some server products etc. |
| 01:36.50 | GenNMX | Yeah that makes sense. WinNT v5.0 or whatever. |
| 01:36.50 | Beladona | the os should have all ports stealthed by default |
| 01:36.51 | Legorol | that's why i can get error messages to pop up and refer to GUI elements that don't even exist in Windows XP :D |
| 01:36.51 | Legorol | that's fun |
| 01:36.51 | GenNMX | Legorol: The architecture is shared, but the OS and Kernel are newer with XP then 2000 |
| 01:36.51 | Corrodias | not -all-.. it has to be able to connect to a network for internet access at least >_> that's completely safe |
| 01:36.51 | Legorol | GenNMX, quite possibly |
| 01:36.51 | Corrodias | actually.. never mind, that doesn't require ports being open |
| 01:36.51 | Legorol | i think WinXP is WinNT 5.1 |
| 01:36.51 | Beladona | it is still the winnt kernel |
| 01:36.51 | Legorol | whereas Win2K is 5.0 |
| 01:36.52 | Legorol | or something like that |
| 01:36.52 | Beladona | its just a newwer version |
| 01:36.52 | Legorol | if you look in install scripts |
| 01:36.53 | Legorol | yeah it's like a newer Linux kernel |
| 01:36.57 | Corrodias | 2k3 is 5.2 |
| 01:37.00 | Legorol | is it? |
| 01:37.03 | Corrodias | it is. |
| 01:37.04 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:37.07 | Corrodias | it's sexy. |
| 01:37.08 | Legorol | that's what i'd have guessed |
| 01:37.25 | Legorol | it might be sexy, i am not too keen on running a server product on my desktop |
| 01:37.32 | Corrodias | i have a 2k3 virtual machine. i decked it out in a purple style, most appealing |
| 01:38.05 | Beladona | http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/security/ |
| 01:38.13 | Legorol | thanks Beladona, will read it |
| 01:38.16 | Beladona | look specifically at the "Secure It" section |
| 01:38.16 | GenNMX | All we need nowadays is a slogan -- "You want the RIAA to find your porn? Secure your computer NOW!" |
| 01:38.24 | Corrodias | i'm not sure all of what is different about the "server" windows from the regular one |
| 01:38.42 | Tain | Corrodias: A few hundred dollars. ;) |
| 01:38.52 | Legorol | i tell you what: the GUI, dollars, and a few default config settings ;_) |
| 01:39.09 | Legorol | i have some fun experiences with getting functionality out of WinXP that is only supposed to be found in server products |
| 01:39.17 | Legorol | because all the kernel and underlying services are the same |
| 01:39.22 | Legorol | but they miss out some GUI elements in XP |
| 01:39.27 | Legorol | for example, the Routing and Remote Access Service |
| 01:39.29 | GenNMX | Corrodias: Its like the difference between Red Hat Enterprise and Fedora Core. One is a distribution for servers, one for workstations. Both use the same kernel and same OS. |
| 01:39.33 | Corrodias | well, i will say that Server has a DNS server that you can install, stuff like that |
| 01:39.36 | Beladona | http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/evaluate/feat/secfeat.mspx |
| 01:39.36 | Legorol | it's the exact same one in XP as it is in sever products |
| 01:39.38 | GenNMX | And the distributions themselves are very similiar. |
| 01:39.42 | Beladona | that is another good read |
| 01:39.55 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:40.30 | Tain | Bah all this Windows and Linux talk, I should go back to FreeBSD. |
| 01:40.33 | Beladona | here is an example |
| 01:40.47 | Corrodias | i don't understand that security page |
| 01:40.55 | Corrodias | and that "Building UAP-Compliant Applications" header makes me wary |
| 01:41.48 | Beladona | install a program in vista, it asks for admin, you install it. And that is it. When you run it again, it copies the necesary files to your local user folder, and runs from there. Your files get changed, but the base install folder NEVER gets touched without admin permissions again |
| 01:42.15 | cladhaire | such a basic.. simple.. good idea |
| 01:42.17 | Tain | A well designed app, yes. |
| 01:42.17 | Corrodias | it takes a bit of work to get that to happen in a domain-user environment in xp |
| 01:42.21 | Tain | And could be done today. |
| 01:42.27 | Corrodias | glad to hear it'll be easier in vista |
| 01:42.34 | Tain | It isn't only because Microsoft didn't push it until now. |
| 01:42.41 | Tain | It's all marketing now. |
| 01:43.09 | GenNMX | What really bugs me about XP is that it makes it very difficult to run as a Restricted User. In *nix, I could give programs all the root rights they need so I don't need to enter in a password every single time. |
| 01:43.23 | Tain | You can do the exact same thing in XP, GenNMX. |
| 01:43.29 | Corrodias | you can? |
| 01:43.31 | Tain | I run 2500 desktops that way. |
| 01:43.42 | Tain | With hundreds of applications, no users as admin. |
| 01:43.46 | GenNMX | Tain: Not with hardware |
| 01:44.02 | Tain | Not with hardware? |
| 01:44.07 | Corrodias | lol.. like, "my video card only lets the administrator use it!"? |
| 01:44.50 | Tain | Well we don't let users install their own hardware so it's hardly an issue. :) |
| 01:44.50 | cladhaire | policies in windows are so horrible .. they make me cry. I know them in and out.. and I have to work with them all the time.. hence why I hate it. |
| 01:44.50 | Corrodias | it sounds like windows -can- do a lot with security that unix does "easier", but you have to learn a hell of a lot about it and work with it carefully to make it happen |
| 01:44.57 | GenNMX | Like I have a Notebook Control Application on my Laptop which needs Admin priviledges because it changes stuff XP Home doesn't allow Restricted Users to have permissions for. |
| 01:45.03 | Corrodias | and if it becomes easier in future versions, i am happy for that |
| 01:45.06 | GenNMX | XP Pro I can get around it though. |
| 01:45.29 | Corrodias | people still use Home? :o |
| 01:45.34 | Tain | There's most likely a single directory, or registry entry it wants. Give permissions to that spot, and it'll run fine. |
| 01:45.38 | cladhaire | Take a default Linux install and watch yourself get compromised. Take a default Windows install and watch yourself be compromised. Take something like a standard BSD install.. and you're safe sailing.. and you can ENABLE what you'd like to enable one at a time.. rather than disabling services until you're as secure as you want. |
| 01:45.51 | Corrodias | Tain: how do you give an application permissions instead of a user? |
| 01:45.55 | cladhaire | but that's just my preference and experience.. YMMV |
| 01:46.05 | Tain | You don't, you give the user (or users group) permissions. |
| 01:46.10 | Beladona | going afk for a bit |
| 01:46.33 | Corrodias | but that lets the user do anything he wants with that data (to the extent that the program needs access) |
| 01:46.57 | Corrodias | if you gave the -process- permission, then it would only do what it's written to do, which you could know about beforehand |
| 01:46.58 | Tain | Which is going to be the case with any application that has to write data somewhere. If it's not running as a different user. |
| 01:47.10 | Corrodias | i have absolutely no idea if that's what he meant, though |
| 01:48.39 | Tain | Well it just all comes down to yes Windows should have been more security focused from the beginning. You can set it up to allow a normal user to run any app they need to without being an admin. |
| 01:49.29 | Tain | The fact that you have to is a different issue, and I agree that it shouldn't be that way. However "shoulds" only get you fired in my experience. |
| 01:49.40 | Legorol | I just read the links Beladone provided |
| 01:49.40 | cladhaire | I agree completely |
| 01:49.45 | Legorol | Tain, i think you should read them too |
| 01:49.49 | Legorol | Personally, it scares the hell out of me |
| 01:50.05 | Legorol | well not really scares, more like banging head against the board |
| 01:50.05 | Corrodias | eh? |
| 01:50.19 | Corrodias | i didn't understand the "secure it" page |
| 01:50.23 | Legorol | If you look deeper at what's going on, this is what's going on: |
| 01:50.24 | cladhaire | You have to be able to accomplish whatever you'd actually need to be able to do.. regardless. Sometimes the environment is dictated to us. There are very many things that Windows is best suited for, and I'll use them there-- when I have a choice.. and same with a Unix type OS. |
| 01:50.39 | Tain | ehn it doesn't really matter. It's whatever MS says, we deal with if you want to get paid for working with MS products. |
| 01:50.57 | Legorol | The first link, which Beladone linked, is actually from developers' perspective |
| 01:51.11 | Legorol | And it just reiterates that if you want an app that works securely, you have to write it securely |
| 01:51.24 | Legorol | It does not add anything new to the discussion besides some fancy words |
| 01:51.29 | Tain | If I were still doing OS/2 support I'd feel the same way about that. |
| 01:51.30 | Legorol | The second link is much more interesting |
| 01:51.45 | Corrodias | keep going, Legorol, i'm listening |
| 01:52.02 | Tain | LIke I said Legorol, it's a lot of marketing. Make a big deal about it with a new OS so people think it is new, and hopefully they'll start to do it. |
| 01:52.03 | cladhaire | *nod* I've done netware on linux.. netware on windows.. straight windows, AD and completely mixed environments |
| 01:52.04 | Legorol | What it amounts to is this, from what I can tell, although there is very little text: |
| 01:52.21 | Legorol | MS have recognised the "always running as admin" problem |
| 01:52.27 | Legorol | So there are two ways they are tackling it: |
| 01:52.37 | Legorol | one is that if you log in as an admin, you don't actually have admin privileges |
| 01:53.13 | Legorol | two is that they have taken a look at the kind of tasks you can perform in windows, and identified which ones are "administrative" and which ones are "user" tasks |
| 01:53.19 | Tain | I'm sure that MS has recognized the problem for a long time. It simply doesn't sell as many operating systems if you go from Windows 3.1 with no security, to forcing people to have it. |
| 01:53.29 | Legorol | And they are going to do two things about it: |
| 01:53.38 | Guillotine | dangit. i just aggrod the entire deadmines instance (literally) and got d/c |
| 01:53.41 | Legorol | if a non-admin user tries to perform administrative tasks, they will have the chance |
| 01:53.41 | Guillotine | so I'm probably dead |
| 01:53.47 | Legorol | by entering credentials there and then |
| 01:53.57 | Legorol | So this is one side of the story, to encourage people to run as average users |
| 01:54.03 | Legorol | i think this is because "Run As" was underused |
| 01:54.05 | Corrodias | that's good news |
| 01:54.08 | GenNMX | Guillotine is Dead in the Deadmines. |
| 01:54.15 | Guillotine | GenNMX: lol |
| 01:54.17 | Legorol | so that people can for example install printers and apps even when logged in as non-admins |
| 01:54.28 | Legorol | by being prompted to provide admin credentials at that point |
| 01:54.35 | Legorol | that's a nice change |
| 01:54.40 | Legorol | the other side of it is what happens to admin accounts |
| 01:54.43 | Corrodias | yes, get on with it |
| 01:54.54 | Legorol | and this is the annoying part, which is that even with admin accounts, the same will happen |
| 01:55.14 | Legorol | a "modern" app rewritten for vista will still prompt you for something even if you are logged in as admin |
| 01:55.29 | Corrodias | so what's the point of an admin account? |
| 01:55.32 | Legorol | the downside as that old apps will still want to run as full admin rights, and won't confirm to the new system |
| 01:55.36 | Tem | good lord |
| 01:55.39 | cladhaire | They're making "Admin" accounts accounts that just simply exist in the group that's allowed to sudo.. and runs sudo when there's a security violation |
| 01:55.43 | Tem | anyone see slouken's latest post |
| 01:55.48 | cladhaire | no. |
| 01:55.50 | cladhaire | *scurries* |
| 01:55.55 | Tem | this is the most cool stuff being added in one patch... |
| 01:55.58 | Corrodias | link us please |
| 01:55.59 | Legorol | wow |
| 01:56.05 | Tem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=286547&p=5 |
| 01:56.09 | Tem | I can't wait |
| 01:56.22 | Corrodias | a legendary [Wang]? |
| 01:56.23 | Legorol | Tem, i thought of a way you might be able to crash 1.10 :-) |
| 01:56.24 | Tain | forum slow.. |
| 01:56.33 | Tem | Legorol: oh? |
| 01:56.44 | Legorol | try parenting a Font object to itself or one of its children :D |
| 01:56.54 | Legorol | in the new font inheritance hierarchy |
| 01:56.57 | Tem | lol I'm sure it has checks for that |
| 01:57.02 | Legorol | you never know ;-) |
| 01:57.06 | Tem | >< |
| 01:57.32 | Corrodias | you can crash WoW already |
| 01:57.46 | Tem | I like that Frame:GetFrameType is staying |
| 01:57.54 | Tem | Backwards compatibility ftw |
| 01:58.03 | Corrodias | Discord Unit Frames has some crap you have to go through when changing settings to prevent crashing |
| 01:58.18 | Legorol | Corrodias, that was insider joke |
| 01:58.19 | Tem | I'm glad I don't use those |
| 01:58.24 | Legorol | point is, Tem keeps finding ways to crash WoW |
| 01:58.30 | Legorol | in case you didn't hear ;-) |
| 01:58.33 | Legorol | he is the crashmaster |
| 01:58.34 | Corrodias | oh |
| 01:58.50 | Legorol | i think my favourite one has to be setting UIParent to be in the tooltip strata |
| 01:58.55 | Tem | lol |
| 01:59.00 | pagefault | I love saccing a VW and hellfiring everyone in BG |
| 01:59.07 | Tain | He's like Ivan Drago. Anything he hits... he destroys. |
| 01:59.09 | Legorol | Tem, only because that one got mentioned in the patch notes :D |
| 01:59.27 | Legorol | i take that as a tribute to your hard work and dedication in crashing WoW |
| 01:59.29 | Tem | I had a fun time telling my guild mates that I was the cause for a line in the patch notes |
| 01:59.35 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:59.41 | Legorol | from the 1.9 changes thread: |
| 01:59.47 | Legorol | "* UIParent:SetFrameStrata("TOOLTIP") no longer crashes the client." |
| 01:59.50 | Legorol | my favourite :D |
| 01:59.54 | Tem | :) |
| 02:00.02 | Legorol | it takes a Tem to think of doing something like that |
| 02:00.10 | Legorol | my 2nd favourite is using __index with nil |
| 02:00.10 | Corrodias | why the heck were you trying to change the strata of uiparent? |
| 02:00.17 | Legorol | Corrodias, that's Tem for you.. |
| 02:00.17 | Corrodias | __index? |
| 02:00.22 | cladhaire | Sssh... we can't question brilliance =) |
| 02:00.43 | Legorol | Corrodias: getmetatable(someRandomFrame).__index(nil) |
| 02:00.51 | Legorol | i think that used to do the trick crash-wise |
| 02:00.53 | Tem | Really that one was me trying to reproduce the crash when you set the stratum of a frame with mousewheel abilities |
| 02:01.09 | Tem | Legorol: it was the second index that had to be nil to cause a crash |
| 02:01.15 | Legorol | ah sorry |
| 02:01.15 | Corrodias | i don't know what (metatable).__index is |
| 02:01.15 | Tem | er, second param |
| 02:01.22 | Tem | the first could be valid |
| 02:01.31 | Tem | but the second being nil would cause a crash |
| 02:01.34 | Legorol | Corrodias: intro to how Blizz maps UI widget methods to C code: |
| 02:01.44 | Tem | Legorol: before you start |
| 02:01.49 | Legorol | every table in the Lua space that represents a UI widget (e.g. UIParent or myFunFrame) |
| 02:01.51 | Legorol | yes Tem? |
| 02:01.58 | Tem | this is better |
| 02:01.59 | Tem | http://www.lua.org/pil/13.html |
| 02:02.10 | Legorol | well i was going to discuss Blizz specific implementation |
| 02:02.17 | Legorol | i am assuming Corrodias can look up metatables |
| 02:02.23 | Tem | if you don't mind a bit of reading, that's way better than any explanation we could give |
| 02:02.29 | Legorol | that's true |
| 02:02.33 | Legorol | read that first |
| 02:02.39 | Legorol | then i can tell you how it's done in WoW specifically |
| 02:02.43 | Tem | aye |
| 02:02.47 | Corrodias | reading |
| 02:02.50 | Legorol | by the way, Tem: i love explaining |
| 02:02.57 | Tem | Legorol: I noticed =P |
| 02:02.59 | Legorol | :D |
| 02:03.22 | Tem | I need to start enjoying explaining things... |
| 02:03.24 | Legorol | so, other ways to crash the client that we could think of for 1.10 include various font re-parenting tricks |
| 02:03.28 | Tem | I'm about to go apply to be a teacher |
| 02:03.33 | Legorol | lol |
| 02:03.49 | Tem | (not like teacher teacher) |
| 02:03.54 | Legorol | well, i have been teaching a few hours a week for some pocket money for years now |
| 02:04.18 | cladhaire | I want to teach.. damn my PhD |
| 02:04.21 | Tem | (just an instructor on campus for "start" a free computing learning center) |
| 02:04.21 | Beladona | I am one of those "Move, I will do it myself" people |
| 02:04.22 | Legorol | the best part is when, having taught the same course for 4 years, a new student (must be like the 30th i taught this to) comes up with a totally new, exciting, unique and simpler solution |
| 02:04.28 | Legorol | to an otherwise textbook problem |
| 02:04.32 | Tem | Beladona: me too |
| 02:04.44 | Beladona | which works well for what I do |
| 02:04.55 | Tem | Beladona: Systems Admin? |
| 02:04.59 | Beladona | yeah |
| 02:05.05 | Legorol | yeah teaching yourself works well for IT and computing |
| 02:05.09 | Legorol | not so much in other areas :( |
| 02:05.09 | Tem | how large a business? |
| 02:05.10 | cladhaire | Beladona: I actually love teaching.... programming.. thats it tho =) |
| 02:05.14 | cladhaire | Everythign else is my domain |
| 02:05.25 | Beladona | 3 Offices, main office has 100 or so people |
| 02:05.44 | cladhaire | Bela: Hire me.. I could use a one way ticket from Syracuse to Florida |
| 02:05.50 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:05.57 | Beladona | we may be hiring later this yar actually |
| 02:06.00 | Beladona | year* |
| 02:06.01 | cladhaire | I mean I have a job.. but it wouldn't take much to lure me away |
| 02:06.02 | Tem | damn I think slouken is sitting at his desk trying to figure out ways for my Frame tree to be easier to make |
| 02:06.04 | cladhaire | I work chea p=) |
| 02:06.08 | Tem | because seriously... |
| 02:06.11 | cladhaire | Tem: You know he is. |
| 02:06.13 | Tem | it just keeps getting easier and easier |
| 02:06.18 | Beladona | and we have like 5 houses next door to me for sale |
| 02:06.21 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:06.34 | cladhaire | Bela: Keep me posted =) |
| 02:06.40 | Beladona | will |
| 02:06.43 | Tain | I work. I don't work cheap, but I work well. :) |
| 02:06.45 | cladhaire | What systems do you have.. cause if I dont have the experience.. I'll have it by the time its open =) |
| 02:06.58 | Tem | it's |
| 02:06.59 | Beladona | well, unfortuantely its a windows network |
| 02:07.01 | Tain | Sent out 20 resumes this week! Damn them all. |
| 02:07.05 | Beladona | native 2003 |
| 02:07.09 | Beladona | exchange |
| 02:07.13 | Beladona | etc... |
| 02:07.18 | Cairenn | Bela .... |
| 02:07.23 | Cairenn | Talk to ME |
| 02:07.31 | Beladona | sorry, whats up? |
| 02:07.39 | cladhaire | I dig.. I can do the windows dilly |
| 02:07.46 | Corrodias | almost finished reading |
| 02:07.53 | Cairenn | just listening to the job description .... |
| 02:08.06 | Tem | I would really like to be in Linux, but it's hard to get in |
| 02:08.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 02:08.12 | Cairenn | and knowing hubby's qualifications |
| 02:08.17 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:08.17 | Tain | Bela can hire Cairenn, cladhaire and me! |
| 02:08.23 | cladhaire | Actually |
| 02:08.23 | Cairenn | and knowing that I want to move somewhere WARM |
| 02:08.27 | Tain | Or Cairenn's husband. hehe |
| 02:08.33 | Beladona | if we did, it would be later this year |
| 02:08.34 | cladhaire | Matryx said I could go to London and work for him. |
| 02:08.38 | Beladona | we may be expanding |
| 02:08.41 | Cairenn | later this year is good |
| 02:08.42 | Tem | cladhaire: that sounds fun |
| 02:08.46 | Tain | That does sound like fun. |
| 02:08.49 | Cairenn | later this year is *very* good |
| 02:08.50 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 02:08.58 | cladhaire | he said his brother is the only downside to the job. |
| 02:08.58 | Tem | cladhaire: doing what? |
| 02:09.05 | cladhaire | Tem: Code-monkey |
| 02:09.11 | cladhaire | which i'm very good at |
| 02:09.18 | cladhaire | but he'd have to be serious first =( |
| 02:09.20 | Beladona | honestly, I would like to get rid of my techs now and rehire |
| 02:09.33 | Tem | Beladona: um |
| 02:09.36 | Beladona | I usually end up fixing stuff |
| 02:09.39 | Tem | got a spot for this summer? |
| 02:09.47 | Tem | I'll move to FL for the summer |
| 02:09.51 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:10.00 | Tain | Hell I'll start packing tonight. |
| 02:10.05 | Beladona | its not high pay, but COL is low |
| 02:10.10 | cladhaire | FWIW I'm best at debugging and troubleshooting broad issues |
| 02:10.19 | Tem | Beladona: I get paid minimum wage atm |
| 02:10.27 | Tain | Oh that's impressive, cladhaire. I can' never troubleshoot broads, they confuse the hell out of me. |
| 02:10.39 | cladhaire | Tell me about it.. I didn't say it was easy |
| 02:10.56 | Tem | I'm better a writing code that "just works" |
| 02:11.20 | Tem | s/ a / at / |
| 02:11.24 | Corrodias | .__index(table, key)... could have just been :__index(key) for this kind of application... *still reading* |
| 02:11.40 | cladhaire | well i dont debug my own code silly |
| 02:11.52 | Tem | Corrodias: only if the table is it's own metatable |
| 02:12.16 | Corrodias | oh, yes, nm |
| 02:12.55 | Legorol | Beladona, i hear you are hiring? Are you willing to deal with the complications of getting a green card? ;-) |
| 02:13.00 | Legorol | 'cause then i'm coming too! |
| 02:13.04 | Beladona | my god |
| 02:13.06 | cladhaire | Woot! |
| 02:13.07 | cladhaire | party! |
| 02:13.15 | Legorol | heck, you could hire more talent in this channel alone then over a year :D |
| 02:13.22 | cladhaire | thats true |
| 02:13.24 | Cairenn | heh |
| 02:13.29 | cladhaire | Just look at tem's work with metatables. |
| 02:13.30 | Beladona | when they tell me to start posting job offers, I can just say "Hold on, let me log into irc" |
| 02:13.31 | cladhaire | and my work with hooks |
| 02:13.38 | Legorol | lol |
| 02:13.40 | cladhaire | and Tain's visor amazingness.. not to mention Titainsex |
| 02:14.03 | Legorol | i'm very good at debugging, arguing and annoying people |
| 02:14.07 | Tem | um, whyis the wow page ugly? |
| 02:14.09 | GenNMX | Beladona: Where do you work? |
| 02:14.09 | Legorol | let me rephrase |
| 02:14.11 | Tem | oh wait |
| 02:14.18 | Legorol | i'm good at bugging, debugging, rebugging |
| 02:14.20 | Legorol | are those requried qualificiations? |
| 02:14.37 | GenNMX | Legorol sounds well-qualified for Quality Assurance ;) |
| 02:14.47 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 02:14.53 | Legorol | that's right! |
| 02:14.56 | Beladona | Joseph Financial Group |
| 02:15.09 | Beladona | and partner Rhoades Law |
| 02:15.15 | Legorol | i reproduce bugs (rebugging), i find their source (debugging) and then i ask the devs to fix them (bugging) |
| 02:15.21 | cladhaire | I have a bad job.. with a good company =) |
| 02:15.23 | Beladona | we handle CPA, FInancial Coordination, and Law |
| 02:15.33 | cladhaire | lol Leg |
| 02:15.34 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:15.44 | Beladona | we just went paperless |
| 02:15.57 | Tain | You know I'm pretty amazing all the way around. |
| 02:15.57 | Beladona | after tax season there will be more to do with that |
| 02:16.10 | GenNMX | Awww, in Florida. Otherwise I'd say I'm available, my degree is in programming and I have 5 years of IT experience ;) |
| 02:16.19 | Tain | Actually, anyone here have a lot of tax knowledge? |
| 02:16.29 | Beladona | we don't do any programming really |
| 02:16.47 | Beladona | except when there is spare time /wink |
| 02:16.51 | Legorol | if it involves byparty agreements on the avoidance of double taxation between countries, then yes, Tain |
| 02:16.52 | GenNMX | Yeah, I've never done programming professionally yet. |
| 02:17.05 | Tain | Not that i want to, I mean I really don't want to, but I have to research at least what a whack I'd take at the end of the year if I end up taking a cash payout of my 401k. :/ |
| 02:17.17 | GenNMX | Mostly IT work, right now I fix Dell computers under in-home warrenty. |
| 02:18.07 | Beladona | I wish I could switch us to linux servers, but there are some systems that are pretty windows only |
| 02:18.26 | Tain | You always have to use the right tool for the job. |
| 02:18.30 | Beladona | but you can inagine how costly server licenses get |
| 02:18.32 | GenNMX | What I want to do is server admin, especially for people that want to switch to *nix |
| 02:18.42 | Legorol | so Beladona, on a slightly more serious note on this |
| 02:18.57 | Legorol | although i wouldn't be applying to you personally, would you consider hiring from the people in this channel |
| 02:18.59 | Legorol | ? |
| 02:19.06 | Legorol | sorry that came out wrong |
| 02:19.14 | Cairenn | poor Bela, should have known better than to say something like that in this channel |
| 02:19.18 | Beladona | would stll need an official interview, but yeah |
| 02:19.21 | Tain | I'll pvp you for the position, Legorol |
| 02:19.28 | Legorol | rofl Tain |
| 02:19.29 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 02:19.33 | cladhaire | you're on |
| 02:19.35 | cladhaire | my druid pwns you |
| 02:19.37 | Legorol | i just said that i was not serious about it, since i can't leave UK |
| 02:19.41 | Beladona | thats just wrong |
| 02:19.50 | Tain | I'll take your tree-hugger down, clad! |
| 02:19.58 | cladhaire | I want to teach at a University.. I will at some point be the intro programming theory teacher for some university.. and likely using a mix of C, Scheme and LUA in (hopefully) a two-three course series.. |
| 02:20.04 | cladhaire | Tain: then try my priest |
| 02:20.05 | cladhaire | or my rogue |
| 02:20.11 | cladhaire | Tain: OMG we can pvp.. we're ont he same server |
| 02:20.12 | Legorol | scheme, eek |
| 02:20.14 | Beladona | Resume: MCSE, PhD, can pvp like nobodies business |
| 02:20.15 | Tain | haha |
| 02:20.20 | Legorol | do you have to include scheme? |
| 02:20.20 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:20.25 | cladhaire | yes |
| 02:20.31 | cladhaire | <3 scheme |
| 02:20.33 | cladhaire | <# lua more |
| 02:20.38 | cladhaire | but scheme would be used .. at some point |
| 02:20.40 | Legorol | isn't that hte one with millions of brackets |
| 02:20.41 | Beladona | hey cladhaire: which server was it we were supposed to roll on? |
| 02:20.43 | Tain | There was a commerical about that actually. I forget what it as for |
| 02:20.47 | GenNMX | Daniel "Beladona": "What are your technical qualifications?" Legorol: "Well, I have 2 years experience programming in a prominent scripting language." Daniel: "Uh, Lua?" Legorol: "...Yeah." |
| 02:20.48 | cladhaire | Kael'thas horde |
| 02:20.48 | Beladona | and which side? |
| 02:20.52 | Beladona | cool |
| 02:20.57 | Beladona | wanted to go horde |
| 02:20.59 | Beladona | =D |
| 02:21.07 | cladhaire | its not PVP |
| 02:21.11 | cladhaire | if you wanna roll pvp i can switch again |
| 02:21.12 | Legorol | lol GenNMX |
| 02:21.16 | Cairenn | you're rolling *another* character? |
| 02:21.21 | cladhaire | ... |
| 02:21.23 | Tain | A guy sitting in an interview, boss reading over his resume. Says something like, "This looks pretty impressive, but what does a level 37 Shadowknight mean?" |
| 02:21.24 | Legorol | actually i have lot more programming experience than that |
| 02:21.25 | cladhaire | what do you want from me? =) |
| 02:21.30 | Beladona | I want people to play with |
| 02:21.33 | Cairenn | that was to Bela :p |
| 02:21.33 | Beladona | Draka is boring |
| 02:21.37 | Cairenn | sowwy =/ |
| 02:21.40 | cladhaire | oh haha |
| 02:21.44 | cladhaire | not that i'm good either |
| 02:21.45 | Cairenn | hey, wait, why am I sorry? |
| 02:21.49 | Beladona | haha |
| 02:21.50 | cladhaire | I have 3 60's and a 30 |
| 02:22.07 | Fanook | I didn't think hunters had finishing moves... |
| 02:22.11 | Beladona | when they open up moves, I will move my 60 |
| 02:22.11 | GenNMX | "What is this Guild thingie here on your resume? Is it like a Union?" |
| 02:22.12 | Cairenn | I made the guilds because *you guys* wanted them, not me :p |
| 02:22.18 | Beladona | till then I will just roll anew |
| 02:22.23 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:22.36 | Beladona | oh wiat |
| 02:22.40 | Beladona | that won't work either clad |
| 02:22.44 | Beladona | my 60 is alliance |
| 02:22.46 | Beladona | =( |
| 02:22.49 | cladhaire | i have 2 60 alliance |
| 02:22.55 | cladhaire | whats your 60's class? |
| 02:23.00 | Beladona | Warrior |
| 02:23.00 | Legorol | gahd, my turtle is greedy |
| 02:23.05 | cladhaire | PVE? |
| 02:23.08 | Beladona | PvP |
| 02:23.08 | Legorol | eats through my stacks of mushrooms like no tomorrow |
| 02:23.12 | cladhaire | Oh.. damn |
| 02:23.15 | Cairenn | doesn't anyone play on Draka any more? |
| 02:23.15 | cladhaire | that breaks it |
| 02:23.20 | cladhaire | otherwise you could roll with Satrina and I |
| 02:23.25 | cladhaire | Cair: I need to finish my Drood firsty |
| 02:23.26 | Beladona | yeah |
| 02:23.39 | Legorol | sorry Cairenn, decided to abandon US account :( |
| 02:23.47 | Beladona | no clad, that 60 is on another server |
| 02:23.48 | Cairenn | understandable Lego |
| 02:23.50 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:24.00 | Cairenn | but I meant the US folks that all wanted the guilds :p |
| 02:24.01 | Legorol | was fun whilst it lasted |
| 02:24.05 | Corrodias | so okay, go on with the blizzard lua to c mapping stuff |
| 02:24.07 | Beladona | I can still roll on Kael |
| 02:24.32 | cladhaire | The thing I hate about resumes.. is I can't say something like 16 years of programming experience, because I'm only 26.. but its true.. I was coding (pretty heavily) for a mud codebase when I was 10. I'm not a prodigy.. its just the way my childhood with technology worked out. Its not "professional" experience.. but its still valid. |
| 02:24.34 | Legorol | Corrodias, every Lua table that's a UI widget (e.g. UIParent or mySexyFrame) has a metatable |
| 02:24.56 | Legorol | which has the __index metamethod defined, whose purpose is to map the method you are trying to call in that table, |
| 02:24.57 | cladhaire | Bela: I'm 55 on Kael atm.. have a _decent_ guild.. not that great.. but i'm there PVPing most of the time |
| 02:25.02 | Legorol | and call the actual underlying C function instead |
| 02:25.02 | Beladona | I was programming basic at 8 |
| 02:25.13 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.17 | Legorol | so for example: myFrame:Show() is, behind the scenes, actually: |
| 02:25.27 | Beladona | but yeah, i don't put that on my resume |
| 02:25.28 | Tain | Yeah cladhaire. I have the same problem. People dont' want to hear it, they want to hear that you've been getting paid for doing Visual BASIC for the last 5 years. Or somesuch nonsense. |
| 02:25.28 | GenNMX | My Hello World in GWBasic was at 10 |
| 02:25.36 | Legorol | getmetatable(myFrame).__index(myFrame, "Show") |
| 02:25.37 | Corrodias | getmetatable(myFrame).__index(myFrame.Show()) ? |
| 02:25.37 | GenNMX | Mmmm, maximum of 255 lines of code! |
| 02:25.42 | Corrodias | oh, SO CLOSE |
| 02:25.56 | Beladona | cladhaire: you are same age as me |
| 02:26.00 | Legorol | if you check out the contents of a Lua table that is a UI widget, you will notice that it only has a single element |
| 02:26.08 | Legorol | it's index 0 and it's type userdata |
| 02:26.16 | Legorol | so it doesn't actually have a Show element |
| 02:26.23 | cladhaire | Tain: exactly.. I can link at least 15 projects I contributed quite heavily to.. and scripts that are up on Hotscripts.com with half a million downloads, but those only work for project oriented jobs =( |
| 02:26.26 | Corrodias | i remember that from our experiments with "this" |
| 02:26.36 | Legorol | hence the need for the metatable to capture syntax like myFrame:Show and instead do something other than a lookup in that table |
| 02:26.45 | Corrodias | okay |
| 02:26.59 | Legorol | the userdata, as far as we know, is actually the pointer to the underlying C instance representing that widget |
| 02:26.59 | Tain | cladhaire: did you ever look at kergoth's resume? He has a somewhat similar situation, but he worded it very nicely. |
| 02:27.02 | Beladona | at 8 I was trying to code a graphical frontend for a text based game I was playing |
| 02:27.08 | Beladona | =P |
| 02:27.09 | cladhaire | Tain: No I didn't |
| 02:27.16 | cladhaire | Bela: When your birthday" |
| 02:27.21 | Beladona | Jan 8 |
| 02:27.39 | Corrodias | and i didn't know anything about programming until a few years ago. i suck. :) |
| 02:27.47 | Legorol | you catch on awfully fast |
| 02:27.54 | Legorol | for someone who didn't know programing 2 years ago |
| 02:28.05 | Beladona | he knew how to spell programming before that! |
| 02:28.27 | Legorol | bah! |
| 02:28.29 | cladhaire | Bela: I'm 21 days older than you =) |
| 02:28.33 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:28.40 | Tain | You crazy kids. |
| 02:28.51 | Cairenn | when's your birthday Clad? |
| 02:28.53 | cladhaire | Happy belated birthday to you |
| 02:28.55 | cladhaire | 12/17 |
| 02:28.55 | Beladona | my wife is 5 months older |
| 02:29.00 | Legorol | let's have a show of hands, how many people's first language was something older than BASIC? |
| 02:29.01 | cladhaire | but I'm a 79 baby =) |
| 02:29.02 | Beladona | same to you |
| 02:29.15 | cladhaire | Legorol: LOGO and BASIC together.. for like a day before I moved oni |
| 02:29.19 | Corrodias | mine would be java, i guess |
| 02:29.24 | Tain | Yeah LOGO |
| 02:29.28 | Legorol | Basic for me |
| 02:29.29 | Beladona | basic here, on a trash 80 |
| 02:29.32 | Tain | Then BASIC. Then Pascal. |
| 02:29.37 | Legorol | Beladona, which machine? |
| 02:29.39 | cladhaire | I had an 8086 Leading Edge Word Processor |
| 02:29.44 | cladhaire | err 8088 |
| 02:29.45 | Legorol | i started on a Commodore 64 |
| 02:29.51 | Tain | 8088! Luxury! |
| 02:29.56 | Legorol | but i did use a Z80 for a bit |
| 02:29.57 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:30.09 | Corrodias | Legorol: i think you got derailed! so let's hear about the __index function for the widget metatable and why calling "null" crashes the game |
| 02:30.13 | Legorol | 8088 is actually worse than 8086 |
| 02:30.15 | Beladona | remember those magnetic tapes, before floppies? |
| 02:30.16 | AnduinLothar | mmm, some derivation of basic i think |
| 02:30.17 | Legorol | so 8086 is luxury ;-) |
| 02:30.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tsurani (n=Tsurani@adsl-69-105-13-185.dsl.sktn01.pacbell.net) |
| 02:30.33 | Legorol | yah, tapes were fun |
| 02:30.35 | Legorol | never worked :D |
| 02:30.39 | Tain | I started learning on an Apple something. Too far back. Then TRS-80, and then my first computer. TI99/4a |
| 02:30.39 | Beladona | hehe |
| 02:31.07 | Legorol | i mean how many times did you have to reload a program on average for it to get read fro the darn tape |
| 02:31.16 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 02:31.18 | Legorol | at least i am too young for the punchcard era |
| 02:31.28 | Legorol | but my parents have stories |
| 02:31.31 | Beladona | I got my first computer, because at the time I was taking everything apart. So they bought me a computer so I could take code apart |
| 02:31.31 | cladhaire | hehehe |
| 02:31.46 | Legorol | lol |
| 02:32.12 | cladhaire | Did anyone read the "Read Your Own Adventure and Code Your Own Programs To Solve the Puzzle (With BASIC " books? Or was I the only one? |
| 02:32.14 | Beladona | they couldn't vacuum in my room |
| 02:32.22 | Beladona | without ruining the vacuum |
| 02:32.45 | Tain | No, I never saw that clad! |
| 02:32.50 | Corrodias | Legorol? you left me hangin' |
| 02:32.54 | Beladona | thats a new one |
| 02:32.56 | Legorol | sorry Corrodias |
| 02:32.59 | Legorol | where were we? |
| 02:33.10 | cladhaire | I have to find them |
| 02:33.12 | cladhaire | they were the best |
| 02:33.13 | cladhaire | honestly. |
| 02:33.14 | Corrodias | Legorol: i think you got derailed! so let's hear about the __index function for the widget metatable and why calling "null" crashes the game |
| 02:33.17 | Legorol | well i don't remember the exact details, Tem can probably tell you better, but |
| 02:33.29 | cladhaire | OMG stonehand is back |
| 02:33.36 | Legorol | getmetatable(myFrame).__index(myFrame, nil) crashed wow |
| 02:33.36 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:33.38 | Legorol | used to anyway |
| 02:33.41 | Legorol | until slouken fixed it |
| 02:33.58 | End | then I tried learning C from -the- C book, and I managed to learn via that |
| 02:33.59 | Legorol | oh, i started with a cute book with dragons |
| 02:34.02 | Legorol | that's how i learnt basic |
| 02:34.04 | Legorol | was a lot of fun |
| 02:34.15 | Beladona | cladhaire: you said Kael'thas? |
| 02:34.20 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 02:34.28 | Legorol | you guys rerolling? |
| 02:34.30 | Beladona | thought you were on a pvp server |
| 02:34.32 | Legorol | is this on PvP? |
| 02:34.36 | Corrodias | their __index function probably calls to C, you think? it would have to, to crash the whole game |
| 02:34.37 | cladhaire | friend "Vandelay", "Kitchkinet", and "Draoi" |
| 02:34.49 | Legorol | it *does* call to C, that much is certain |
| 02:34.50 | cladhaire | Draoi is me.. == Irish for "Druid".. cause I'm really creative |
| 02:34.58 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:34.59 | cladhaire | its a PVE server |
| 02:35.06 | cladhaire | Cladhaire == Irish for Rogue. |
| 02:35.14 | Legorol | ok, so i have a dilemma, help me out guys |
| 02:35.14 | Corrodias | but if it's pve, you won't get ganked! :( |
| 02:35.15 | cladhaire | Sagart (my priest) == Irish for Priest |
| 02:35.20 | cladhaire | I R teh suck |
| 02:35.28 | Legorol | should i finish Raene's cleansing so i get to find out what the end of the story is, |
| 02:35.36 | Beladona | old irish? |
| 02:35.37 | Legorol | or not finish it and keep Darthol's Rod of Transformation? |
| 02:35.40 | cladhaire | Its a good series.. but I haven't finished it |
| 02:35.46 | cladhaire | Bela: Irish Gaelic to be specific. |
| 02:35.52 | Beladona | yeah |
| 02:35.57 | Beladona | I am part Scottish |
| 02:35.58 | Corrodias | i don't know what any of that is! oh noes! i can't help you |
| 02:36.02 | Fanook | i think Raene's reward is just cash |
| 02:36.08 | Beladona | and know a little (little) scottish Gaelic |
| 02:36.10 | Legorol | Fanook, it's not about the cash |
| 02:36.15 | Legorol | it's about the story |
| 02:36.18 | Fanook | doesn't connect to any further storylines |
| 02:36.19 | cladhaire | I'm Irish and German.. but my boyfriend is Irish.. and very into Gaelic history/culture/language |
| 02:36.28 | Beladona | cool |
| 02:37.03 | Tem | Anyone know offhand what frame the keybindings is done with? |
| 02:37.32 | Corrodias | KeyBindingFrame? |
| 02:37.36 | Corrodias | that's a guess |
| 02:37.50 | cladhaire | nope |
| 02:38.04 | cladhaire | NO |
| 02:38.06 | cladhaire | KeyBindingFrame |
| 02:38.10 | cladhaire | its just LoD =) |
| 02:38.16 | Tem | oh |
| 02:38.17 | Corrodias | LoD? |
| 02:38.21 | Tem | no wonder I couldn't find it |
| 02:38.24 | Beladona | Load On Demand |
| 02:38.35 | Corrodias | ah... i was right? >_> |
| 02:38.47 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 02:38.58 | Corrodias | i made a macro to identify the frame i'm currently pointing to and its immediate parent... control+shift+2 i think |
| 02:39.38 | Legorol | grats |
| 02:39.43 | Legorol | only one problem though Corrodias |
| 02:39.48 | Corrodias | well, macros in WoW require putting them on action buttons, don't they? key-bound script, then |
| 02:39.57 | Legorol | if the frame doesn't have mousevents enabled, then GetMouseFocus() doesn't work, if htat's what you are using |
| 02:40.11 | Beladona | maybe I should name my Tauren Shaman boaire |
| 02:40.14 | AnduinLothar | ya, noticed that on the breath abr |
| 02:40.15 | Beladona | Cow Lord |
| 02:40.25 | Corrodias | good point. the key binding frame does, i'm sure, though |
| 02:40.30 | Legorol | yah |
| 02:40.49 | Corrodias | wouldn't work very well if it couldn't! :D |
| 02:40.57 | Fanook | should this fn call work? : CastSpellByName("Berserker Rage()") |
| 02:41.15 | AnduinLothar | dont need the () i dont believe |
| 02:41.16 | Corrodias | with a () at the end? *skeptical* |
| 02:41.31 | Fanook | Corr: that's my thought |
| 02:41.52 | AnduinLothar | it 'shouldn't work unless you have CastOptions which allows it because you have no idea how many people try |
| 02:41.56 | Corrodias | they don't call it "berserker rage()" in the game :| |
| 02:42.56 | AnduinLothar | mugendai got sick of people whining that it didn't work with a () after the spell name in /cast so he just modified his CastSpellByName hook to allow it |
| 02:43.17 | Corrodias | why were they using () after the name? |
| 02:43.34 | AnduinLothar | cause they're scripting newbs |
| 02:43.41 | Fanook | *sigh* |
| 02:43.51 | Corrodias | who in their right mind would refer to healing touch as "healing touch()"? |
| 02:44.01 | Beladona | clahaire: new character = Badhar |
| 02:44.10 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:44.12 | End | sounds almost like...bad hair |
| 02:44.17 | cladhaire | BEladona: Great.. I'll write that down |
| 02:44.17 | Codayus | .... |
| 02:44.21 | Beladona | it means Cow Placenta |
| 02:44.26 | End | oO |
| 02:44.28 | End | er |
| 02:44.29 | Corrodias | hay guyz lol wher do i lern Healing Touch()??? |
| 02:44.30 | End | o_O |
| 02:44.40 | cladhaire | leanr2hael lolz |
| 02:44.51 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:45.03 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:45.09 | Corrodias | () |
| 02:45.25 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:46.22 | AnduinLothar | Oh Noes! The Pally Cast hiz Parenze! Whach him herth! |
| 02:46.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:46.37 | Fanook | stupid Logitech and their G15 :( |
| 02:47.18 | Tem | can someone do me a favor? |
| 02:47.51 | Tem | look at the BindingUI and tell me how in the hell it allows binding to a mousewheel event |
| 02:47.56 | Tem | I'm at a loss |
| 02:48.33 | cladhaire | k |
| 02:49.26 | Legorol | sure Tem |
| 02:49.29 | Legorol | or is cladhaire on it? |
| 02:49.36 | Tem | race? |
| 02:49.53 | cladhaire | lol |
| 02:49.58 | Tem | =P |
| 02:50.05 | pagefault | haha |
| 02:50.11 | pagefault | someone posted the WoW client on the school network |
| 02:50.22 | pagefault | so you can play it in the lab |
| 02:50.32 | AnduinLothar | :) i keep it on my ipod for that |
| 02:51.25 | Beladona | cladhaire: you online in any fashion in wow atm? |
| 02:51.33 | cladhaire | Odd.. KEY_MOUSEWHEELDOWN isnt referenced anywhere |
| 02:51.40 | cladhaire | Bela: I'm on Stormrage/Sagart atm |
| 02:51.45 | Beladona | ahh kk |
| 02:51.48 | AnduinLothar | it's a substring for a binding event |
| 02:51.52 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 02:51.54 | cladhaire | I know that |
| 02:52.15 | Tem | ah I found it |
| 02:52.30 | Tem | It's on the inner frames |
| 02:52.37 | Tem | that's why I couldn't find it |
| 02:52.53 | Legorol | it's on the KeyBindingFrameScrollFrame |
| 02:53.01 | Tem | aye Legorol |
| 02:53.18 | cladhaire | lol |
| 02:53.19 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:53.48 | Fanook | Tem: the sad part is i saw that like 3 mins ago and dismissed it cause i didn't read it correctly |
| 02:53.56 | Tem | hehe |
| 02:54.17 | Tem | I made the mistake of collapsing the frame and ignoring it's inner parts |
| 02:54.24 | Tem | so I didn't notice the ScrollFrame |
| 02:54.25 | Legorol | It's actually very good design |
| 02:54.35 | Legorol | if it was on the outer frame, you couldn't scroll with wheel |
| 02:54.42 | Legorol | if it was on a button, again you couldn't scroll |
| 02:54.43 | Fanook | heh, i use my text editor to view all the files :) |
| 02:54.57 | Tem | I was using XML Spy |
| 02:55.07 | Legorol | Tem, you can collapse in XML Spy? |
| 02:55.10 | Legorol | you have a licence key? |
| 02:55.14 | Tem | heh... |
| 02:55.17 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:55.25 | Fanook | ah, so you *found* a key :) |
| 02:55.30 | Legorol | right, i get it |
| 02:55.45 | Legorol | 'cause that's my only gripe with the free version |
| 02:55.54 | Legorol | it has everything i need *except* collapsing |
| 02:56.00 | Tem | I was unaware that there was a free version |
| 02:56.01 | Legorol | but i'm not going to buy it just for that |
| 02:56.07 | Beladona | Dreamweaver 8 FTW |
| 02:56.10 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:56.13 | Beladona | also has code collapse |
| 02:56.19 | Legorol | but is it free, Beladona? |
| 02:56.21 | Corrodias | "xml spy"? |
| 02:56.27 | Beladona | to those that know it is |
| 02:56.27 | Legorol | isn't Dreamweaver like $400? |
| 02:56.49 | Tem | Beladona: does DW have schema validation |
| 02:56.50 | Tain | Dreamweaver... I believe you can get me through the night |
| 02:57.08 | Beladona | I could afford it, but well, I can afford a lot of things I would rather not |
| 02:57.14 | Legorol | so unless i see a very cheap deal or can get a free version, i get left out of the cool stuff |
| 02:57.19 | Corrodias | in our languages class, we covered xml and scheme.. damned if i remember much of it |
| 02:57.23 | Beladona | yeah DW8 has scheme validation |
| 02:57.29 | Beladona | earlier versions didn't |
| 02:57.37 | Corrodias | scheme -> 'xml schema' |
| 02:57.41 | AnduinLothar | oh man. i wanna forget scheme |
| 02:57.44 | Corrodias | stupid brain on autopilot |
| 02:57.48 | Legorol | i'd be surprised if any decent, read pay for it, XML tools nowadays didn't have validation |
| 02:57.58 | Beladona | pretty good xsl and css tools too |
| 02:58.13 | Legorol | does it have visual schema editing tool? |
| 02:58.20 | Beladona | and I have a lua plugin for it =D |
| 02:58.27 | Legorol | XML Spy's free version is perfect, it has schema based intellisense, |
| 02:58.33 | Legorol | and visual schema editor |
| 02:58.38 | Legorol | but it doesn't have collapse :( |
| 02:58.45 | Corrodias | intellisense? isn't that a microsoft flash word? |
| 02:58.47 | Beladona | I will have to play with XML spy, not sure how much of the same features are on DW |
| 02:58.48 | Legorol | so sometimes when i need to do collapsing i just open my xml in SciTE |
| 02:58.51 | Corrodias | buzz word, something |
| 02:59.01 | Legorol | yeah it is, Corrodias |
| 02:59.07 | Legorol | it's shorter than trying to explain it |
| 02:59.24 | ScytheBl1de1 | a huge buzz word. About the only way that allows anyone to program under windows ;) |
| 02:59.34 | ScytheBl1de1 | bah @ nick |
| 02:59.35 | Beladona | I got used to using DW for web design, so I tend to use it for other stuff too |
| 02:59.36 | Legorol | what? |
| 02:59.52 | Legorol | i program my mobile phones Symbian OS in C under windows, no intellisense for that, ty much |
| 02:59.59 | ScytheBlade1 | hmm, brb |
| 03:00.25 | Legorol | Beladona, fair enough |
| 03:00.36 | Legorol | i wish i could get a copy of DW to play around with |
| 03:00.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=kyle@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:00.41 | Legorol | i guess there is probably a trial version |
| 03:00.51 | Corrodias | "intellisense"? |
| 03:00.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Sorry, I should have been more clear |
| 03:01.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Only way to program complex win32 bases programs without looking up every single API call under the sun that's required |
| 03:01.13 | Legorol | intellisense is the thingy when as you start typing code, it shows a dropdown with possible completions |
| 03:01.22 | Corrodias | i've done a lot of programming under windows and a small amount of it FOR windows and i've never seen the word used in any sensible context |
| 03:01.27 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1, right, i misunedrstood you |
| 03:01.34 | Gryphen | otherwise known as auto complete |
| 03:01.35 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe np |
| 03:01.39 | Corrodias | ah.. that |
| 03:01.41 | Legorol | sorry |
| 03:01.45 | Beladona | that isn't intellisense |
| 03:01.53 | Legorol | auto complete isn't quite intellisense |
| 03:01.54 | Corrodias | i thought it had to do with mice |
| 03:01.57 | Beladona | not the microsoft one anyway |
| 03:01.59 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, no |
| 03:02.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Basically, start typing a function name |
| 03:02.07 | Legorol | ehm |
| 03:02.14 | Legorol | confused |
| 03:02.15 | ScytheBlade1 | and it can auto-complete a possibility for you + list all params |
| 03:02.16 | Legorol | which one's which? |
| 03:02.17 | Beladona | but DW does have that |
| 03:02.20 | Corrodias | no, i'm absolutely sure it doesn't have anything ot do with programming |
| 03:02.36 | Legorol | Corrodias, that's intellimouse? is there such a thing? |
| 03:02.39 | Codayus | I think intellisense is a pretty generic term. Or at least used as such. Googling, I see MS has a TM on it... |
| 03:02.47 | Corrodias | ah, intellimouse, that's what i'm thinking of |
| 03:02.52 | Tain | Damn I saw someone mention it earlier and all of a sudden I had to know. You can make round buttons. or at least fake it enough. |
| 03:03.03 | Legorol | Tain, how? |
| 03:03.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Beladona: this has more 'power' to it... it's every possible function ever period + all params and well, everything |
| 03:03.05 | Beladona | I think we are all thinking of "Smart Tags" |
| 03:03.06 | Corrodias | then i see this quote in google, "I got an MS-IntelliSense Optical Mouse about two years ago." |
| 03:03.09 | AnduinLothar | ya, ok that treasure map quest is lame |
| 03:03.11 | Codayus | I haven't decided yet whether its the coolest thing evah, or a crutch that'll lead to bad programming. :-/ |
| 03:03.13 | Legorol | specifically, how do you allow mouse events to go past the corner? |
| 03:03.16 | Beladona | which is what ms calls it |
| 03:03.28 | AnduinLothar | kool and intreaguing, but it needs a good reward for its rarity |
| 03:03.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Codayus: There was an article on slashdot a few months ago about how all it did was create lazy programmers |
| 03:03.59 | Tain | The frame is technically the same, Legoral. By fake it I mean its textures can be all made to look rounded. |
| 03:04.02 | Beladona | ScytheBlade1: I know what you are talking about, and DW has it |
| 03:04.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Beladona: have you used the version in VS? |
| 03:04.18 | Corrodias | ...duh. but you make a rounded image that has a square hitbox |
| 03:04.25 | Corrodias | what good is that to anybody? |
| 03:04.26 | Codayus | ScytheBlade1: I saw that, yeah. It didn't convince me, but I'm not sure its wrong either. |
| 03:04.33 | Legorol | Tain, right, so the mouse coudl still click the "corner" where there isn't actually any visible image? |
| 03:04.36 | Beladona | ......... |
| 03:04.37 | Tain | duh what good is ANY visual addon? |
| 03:04.44 | Tain | Correct, leg |
| 03:04.53 | Tain | It's only an aesthetic thing. |
| 03:05.08 | Corrodias | i see, i see.. could be nice if you have a row of buttons that you want to look nice |
| 03:05.09 | Beladona | so let me get this straight, the DW code hinting isn't the same, because suppoedly it doesn't include EVERYTHING? which in fact it does |
| 03:05.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Beladona: It comes close, very very very close |
| 03:05.38 | Codayus | Besides, why would you notice/care that the rounded corners were "fake"? It's all aethetics anyhow. The only reason someone would notice is they were trying to click the button and just slightly missed... |
| 03:05.50 | Beladona | whatever |
| 03:05.53 | Corrodias | and said "oops" as all their settings were erased! |
| 03:06.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Beladona: it's just semantics and little nit picking things that differentiate the two |
| 03:06.05 | Corrodias | and the game crashed! (hint: don't make a "crash the game" button) |
| 03:06.05 | Codayus | And in that case, they'd probably be greatful that it worked. :-) |
| 03:06.22 | Tain | Dreamweaver and XML Spy are incomparible. |
| 03:06.26 | Tem | I've had a crash the game button in my UI for some time now |
| 03:06.38 | Fanook | Tem: Login? |
| 03:06.40 | Tem | it's just my testing macro |
| 03:07.09 | Tem | nah, it's where I start putting things when I think they will crash |
| 03:07.15 | Tem | so that I have a record of what I did later |
| 03:07.17 | Corrodias | and now to do some spring cleaning |
| 03:07.20 | Beladona | DW and XML Spy are only imparable because XML Spy handles xml files, and dw handles xml files + others |
| 03:07.30 | Beladona | imparable = incomparable |
| 03:08.13 | Tain | XML is just one part of what DW is for. It's like comparing Windows Solitaire to a deck of playing cards. |
| 03:08.50 | Beladona | that could be said of just about any software |
| 03:09.03 | Beladona | any that can do more than another |
| 03:09.04 | Tain | And if often is. |
| 03:09.17 | Beladona | all I said was that DW can do the same things |
| 03:09.42 | Beladona | I use it because it can do thsoe things, AND others |
| 03:09.50 | Tain | Well see it's your fault for continuing to argue with the lowbies. ;) |
| 03:09.50 | Beladona | so I only need one program, instead of 3 or 4 |
| 03:10.32 | Beladona | yeah sorry, I should know better than to make a statement that could be argued |
| 03:10.51 | Codayus | I'm confused, is Beladona arguing the superiority of emacs or what? |
| 03:10.57 | Codayus | I mean, it SOUNDS like a pro-emacs argument! |
| 03:10.58 | Beladona | nope |
| 03:11.23 | Codayus | Except that should be "need one program, instead of 15 or 20". :-P |
| 03:11.26 | ScytheBlade1 | 'some valium'? |
| 03:11.38 | Beladona | it actually started as DW being an alternative |
| 03:11.46 | Beladona | I don't think it is better or anything |
| 03:12.40 | Beladona | and for some things it isn't. God knows I still can't get it to see lua comments perfectly |
| 03:12.42 | cladhaire | this channel is high-stress tonight |
| 03:13.06 | Beladona | its a thursday, the day before beer night |
| 03:13.10 | Beladona | =D |
| 03:13.11 | cladhaire | ... |
| 03:13.13 | cladhaire | thursday is beer night |
| 03:13.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I blame... my chronic migraines for that little bit there ;) |
| 03:13.17 | cladhaire | friday is beer afternoon == happy hour |
| 03:13.26 | ScytheBlade1 | It's hard to think straight when you can't see or walk straight |
| 03:13.27 | Beladona | I have to work |
| 03:13.30 | cladhaire | power hour tonight |
| 03:13.33 | cladhaire | .. cept i'm on call |
| 03:13.37 | Beladona | so I do my drinking when I can sleep in |
| 03:13.43 | cladhaire | Tem: I was gonna go watch Mr. and Mr.s. Smith |
| 03:13.53 | Legorol | it's not that good, i recommend against it |
| 03:13.55 | Tem | That's a good one |
| 03:13.58 | Tem | I liked it |
| 03:13.58 | Legorol | :9 |
| 03:13.59 | cladhaire | ... |
| 03:13.59 | AnduinLothar | i thought it was good |
| 03:14.00 | Beladona | although I gotta see Underworld this weekend |
| 03:14.01 | cladhaire | i like it a lot. |
| 03:14.02 | Legorol | another argument |
| 03:14.05 | cladhaire | no |
| 03:14.08 | Legorol | Underworld is good! |
| 03:14.08 | cladhaire | i'm not arguing this with you |
| 03:14.09 | cladhaire | =) |
| 03:14.11 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:14.11 | Legorol | :-) |
| 03:14.17 | Tem | I need to see the first underworld before I see the next one |
| 03:14.17 | AnduinLothar | i bought the dvd in fact |
| 03:14.17 | Legorol | it's just opinion this time, fortunately |
| 03:14.18 | Legorol | no hard facts |
| 03:14.23 | cladhaire | THIS is a fully subjective discussino =) |
| 03:14.24 | cladhaire | no facts |
| 03:14.25 | cladhaire | damn |
| 03:14.25 | Tain | I'm just sad that Angelina is all soiled now with getting pregnant. Now I don't want her. |
| 03:14.31 | Legorol | cladhaire, beat ya ;-) |
| 03:14.33 | cladhaire | Tain....... |
| 03:14.34 | cladhaire | are you kidding |
| 03:14.37 | AnduinLothar | the Underworld was ok |
| 03:14.43 | AnduinLothar | needed more plot |
| 03:14.52 | cladhaire | She can be 34 weeks pregnant.. and i'll still want her |
| 03:14.53 | AnduinLothar | and better char dev |
| 03:14.55 | Beladona | I think Angelina was soiled long before getting pregnant |
| 03:14.55 | Tem | I think cladhaire would be straight for Angelina Joli |
| 03:14.58 | Beladona | .... |
| 03:15.16 | Tem | *crickets* |
| 03:15.24 | cladhaire | its true |
| 03:15.26 | cladhaire | but |
| 03:15.27 | cladhaire | i'm not gay |
| 03:15.29 | cladhaire | i just like boys |
| 03:15.31 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 03:15.40 | cladhaire | I like to refer to it as "Equal Opportunity" =) |
| 03:15.41 | Beladona | I have an ass like a little boy |
| 03:15.45 | ScytheBlade1 | *insert akward silence here* |
| 03:15.46 | cladhaire | but not affirmative action |
| 03:16.02 | cladhaire | i mean |
| 03:16.05 | Beladona | heh |
| 03:16.07 | cladhaire | I #wowi-lounge.. whats up? |
| 03:16.15 | Legorol | is this your way of winning that job application, cladhaire? |
| 03:16.15 | cladhaire | s/I /Hi / |
| 03:16.16 | ScytheBlade1 | (stupid freaking migraine) |
| 03:16.40 | cladhaire | You do what you have to my friends =) |
| 03:16.42 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:16.56 | Beladona | err, that sentence confused me |
| 03:17.21 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, fyi, i had no like with BKB.. can't prove it's MF's fault |
| 03:17.26 | Legorol | for that matter couldn't even repro the bug |
| 03:17.28 | ScytheBlade1 | AnduinLothar: My neck is out of alignment... third vertebre down is 1 inch to the left, fourth is 1.25 inches to the right |
| 03:17.28 | Beladona | ahh, ok I inserted a comma after to, that helped |
| 03:17.34 | Legorol | *like = luck |
| 03:17.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence the chronic migraines :) |
| 03:17.43 | cladhaire | hahaha |
| 03:17.53 | cladhaire | Sorry Bela.. |
| 03:17.58 | Beladona | nah its me |
| 03:17.59 | cladhaire | I was laughing as I typed it. |
| 03:18.07 | Beladona | this is the hour my brain starts to wind down |
| 03:18.10 | AnduinLothar | u need a good masuse |
| 03:18.33 | ScytheBlade1 | AnduinLothar: I have a good chiropractor. I just need to see him more often |
| 03:18.51 | Legorol | is a chiropractor related to a velociraptor? |
| 03:18.58 | Legorol | if so, i'm scared |
| 03:19.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Slightly. |
| 03:19.01 | ScytheBlade1 | :) |
| 03:19.05 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:19.07 | Beladona | OMG, the Rocketeer is on! |
| 03:19.17 | AnduinLothar | rocketeer is uber |
| 03:19.20 | Tain | At least it's not an ornithopter |
| 03:19.24 | Beladona | oldy but a goody |
| 03:19.33 | Legorol | Tain: is that an M:tG reference perchance? |
| 03:19.34 | AnduinLothar | ornothopters would probably worsen the migraine |
| 03:19.41 | Tain | Could be, Leg |
| 03:19.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm - this channel has ibot, right? |
| 03:19.51 | ScytheBlade1 | ibot? |
| 03:20.07 | Tain | ~lart ScytheBlade |
| 03:20.09 | End | it has purl |
| 03:20.10 | Legorol | bah, somehow i got convinced to go to an M:tG pre-release this saturdays, after not having touched the thing for years |
| 03:20.11 | AnduinLothar | especially once it got shot down by insurgents and you got eaten by a sand worm |
| 03:20.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Right, purl |
| 03:20.23 | End | ~moo |
| 03:20.26 | purl | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ |
| 03:20.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:20.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh right right, it's run by the same guy |
| 03:20.37 | Tain | Legorol: I found about 20 unopened packs of 4th Ed in a box today. |
| 03:20.38 | cladhaire | ~ninja |
| 03:20.41 | purl | i guess ninja is http://test.lowmotion.org/u_users/480/ninjalesson.jpg, or realultimatepower.net |
| 03:20.51 | Legorol | Tain: ah, the good old times |
| 03:21.06 | Beladona | dead link alert! woowoowoo! |
| 03:21.07 | ScytheBlade1 | purl: onjoin Iriel is Hi! |
| 03:21.07 | purl | ok, ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:21.08 | Tain | I had actually quit playing by then which is why they were unopened. heh |
| 03:21.10 | ScytheBlade1 | :) |
| 03:21.16 | Legorol | that's like ages ago |
| 03:21.34 | Tain | I started playing when Legends first came out. |
| 03:21.38 | ScytheBlade1 | That should work.. |
| 03:21.48 | Tain | Like.. 100 years ago |
| 03:21.52 | ScytheBlade1 | purl: onjoin ScytheBlade1 is ewww, him |
| 03:21.53 | purl | ok, ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:21.56 | Fanook | i started at Fallen Empires |
| 03:21.58 | *** part/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=kyle@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:22.04 | Beladona | you guys see the new expansion for EQ2? |
| 03:22.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=kyle@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:22.11 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, not quite... |
| 03:22.20 | ScytheBlade1 | purl: onjoin ScytheBlade1 ewww, ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:22.20 | purl | ScytheBlade1: ok |
| 03:22.23 | Beladona | basically the whole expansion is the Plane of Air from EQ1 |
| 03:22.24 | ScytheBlade1 | There we go |
| 03:22.31 | Beladona | brings back memories |
| 03:23.14 | Tain | One of the funniest moments in my EQ life was in Plane of Air. Wait... or was it Sky? Didn't they eventually have both? |
| 03:23.26 | Tain | Well the one with the 7 islands. |
| 03:23.30 | Beladona | well |
| 03:23.33 | Beladona | I was thinking Sky |
| 03:23.36 | Beladona | actually |
| 03:23.44 | Beladona | yeah that one |
| 03:23.50 | Beladona | I think in EQ2 they are making them one thing |
| 03:23.58 | Tain | Anyway! The one with Islands and chains between them. |
| 03:23.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 03:24.08 | Beladona | the old one |
| 03:24.12 | Beladona | before Planes of Power |
| 03:24.13 | Tain | We were up, cleared it, beat the bossguy, and a super Cleric item dropped. |
| 03:24.19 | Tain | Righto. |
| 03:24.39 | Beladona | I played for 6 years |
| 03:24.45 | Tain | So just about everyone immediately says, "Congrats Morty!" who was the best cleric, and one of the best players we had. |
| 03:24.51 | Tain | well the guildleader, also a cleric, took offense. |
| 03:25.10 | Beladona | clerics are uber |
| 03:25.10 | Tain | Said something, and someone said back to him, "He deserves it more than you." |
| 03:25.27 | Tain | And the guildleader promptly jumped off of the island without a word. |
| 03:25.44 | Legorol | does that kill him permanently? |
| 03:25.50 | Corrodias | in real life? |
| 03:25.54 | Legorol | lol |
| 03:25.57 | Tain | No, you land in the water but it was just hilarious. |
| 03:26.02 | Corrodias | i don't get it |
| 03:26.05 | Legorol | sounds like it was |
| 03:26.14 | Tain | He was so pissed, he just turned around and left. |
| 03:26.24 | Tain | I guess it was funnier if you were there. |
| 03:26.39 | Corrodias | maybe if i know what the something he said was |
| 03:26.47 | Corrodias | at the moment all i'm thinking is "mrr" |
| 03:26.58 | Beladona | it would be funnier if he went under the world and had to get a GM to get him out |
| 03:27.03 | Beladona | =D |
| 03:27.21 | Corrodias | it would be funnier if he took the item for himself and laughed at everyone's pain |
| 03:27.24 | Tain | I got stuck in one of the GM rooms beneath the world. All of the original zones had one. |
| 03:27.29 | Tain | Before any expansions. |
| 03:27.33 | Beladona | yup |
| 03:27.37 | Corrodias | EQ? |
| 03:27.42 | Beladona | yeah |
| 03:27.49 | Legorol | i tried EQ once, for a week |
| 03:28.03 | Beladona | I was a guide, and we had a list of the rooms with coordinates |
| 03:28.06 | Legorol | the whole week was spent trying to collect some bones for the very first newbie tutorial quest |
| 03:28.12 | Legorol | at that point, i decided to never touch it again |
| 03:28.18 | Tain | The guide that came to get me had no idea what it was. |
| 03:28.23 | Beladona | uhh |
| 03:28.27 | Beladona | musta been a newbie |
| 03:28.27 | Tain | I tried to be a guide. I lasted a week. |
| 03:28.38 | Corrodias | what is a guide? |
| 03:28.50 | Beladona | a volunteer GM |
| 03:28.53 | Beladona | you dont get paid |
| 03:29.04 | Beladona | well, except the game is free |
| 03:29.09 | Tain | A guide is a sucker. Someone that they didn't have to pay who'd field all the jackass questions and problems so the real GMs wouldn't have to. |
| 03:29.10 | Legorol | Tell me, how can you play a game where it takes 1 week to get past the first major step in the first tutorial you encounter? |
| 03:29.17 | Legorol | or quest or mission or whatever it's called |
| 03:29.28 | Tain | Never took me anywhere near that. |
| 03:29.31 | Beladona | it took you one week? |
| 03:29.34 | Corrodias | so you spend all your time answering people instead of playing... |
| 03:29.42 | Beladona | no Corrodias |
| 03:29.47 | Legorol | ok, so i rolled a shadowknight or whatever |
| 03:29.50 | Beladona | you had to devote a certain number of hours |
| 03:29.57 | Legorol | i started off in some small cave, which i got out of fairly quickly |
| 03:30.00 | Corrodias | ah |
| 03:30.06 | Legorol | then i got to some guy who told me to collect some bones for my armor |
| 03:30.08 | Beladona | they took that away though |
| 03:30.13 | Beladona | and I promptly quit |
| 03:30.14 | Legorol | i went off, and spent a week trying to get all the bones he wanted to |
| 03:30.19 | Legorol | leveled about 10 levels in the process |
| 03:30.24 | Beladona | they made guides do roleplaying and events |
| 03:30.28 | Beladona | and nothing else |
| 03:30.33 | Legorol | so i got bored and quit |
| 03:30.33 | Beladona | but kept the same time requirements |
| 03:30.38 | Beladona | man that got boring |
| 03:30.39 | Legorol | was i doing something wrong? |
| 03:30.56 | Tain | Probably, Legorol. Bones drop like popcorn. |
| 03:31.03 | Beladona | apparently Lego, it took me like an hour |
| 03:31.06 | Corrodias | EQ has popcorn? |
| 03:31.15 | Legorol | well this particular piece of bone was just not dropping, or very rarely |
| 03:31.20 | Beladona | but you can skip that |
| 03:31.21 | Legorol | on top of that, had to camp ages for the skeletons |
| 03:31.27 | Legorol | as they wouldn't respawn |
| 03:31.41 | Beladona | now camping was nasty |
| 03:31.56 | Beladona | I camped a specific mod for 3 days straight for my shield of bane warding |
| 03:32.01 | Legorol | i don't think i was doing it wrong though |
| 03:32.07 | Beladona | and I mean straight as in no logoff |
| 03:32.12 | Legorol | i am sure not all the parts dropped that i needed |
| 03:32.29 | Legorol | and that respawn rate was *very* slow |
| 03:33.01 | Tain | Anyone who wants to complain about WoW's interface never had to play with this. |
| 03:33.03 | Tain | http://www.crushingdreams.com/images/eq1-4.jpg |
| 03:33.14 | Beladona | !!!!! |
| 03:33.17 | Legorol | i love wow's default interface |
| 03:33.21 | Legorol | i actually think it's quite good |
| 03:33.24 | Beladona | Kelethin |
| 03:33.27 | Beladona | lol |
| 03:33.28 | Tain | hehe |
| 03:33.29 | Legorol | i only use addons that add functionality, not modify the interface |
| 03:33.52 | Beladona | those were the days |
| 03:34.01 | cladhaire | night folks |
| 03:34.06 | Tain | Night clad |
| 03:34.11 | Beladona | seeya clad |
| 03:34.33 | Legorol | is that screenie from EQ? |
| 03:34.38 | Beladona | in hindsight that game was so butt-ugly |
| 03:34.49 | Beladona | yeah back before they revamped the engine |
| 03:35.29 | Legorol | well, i'll be off too |
| 03:35.30 | Beladona | more recent: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/mediabox/isle-guardian.jpg |
| 03:35.32 | Legorol | night folks |
| 03:35.51 | Legorol | ehm, Beladona |
| 03:35.56 | Legorol | that screenie has no interface.. |
| 03:36.02 | Beladona | well |
| 03:36.18 | Beladona | you could turn it off for screenshots |
| 03:36.21 | Legorol | right |
| 03:36.32 | Legorol | btw, did WoW nick the <guild> notation from EQ? |
| 03:36.36 | Legorol | becuase it's dead ugly |
| 03:36.56 | Corrodias | looks like it |
| 03:37.26 | Corrodias | i wonder if there's any way to modify it... |
| 03:37.27 | Legorol | i mean seriously... they have to use a text-based method for emphasis? |
| 03:37.28 | Beladona | many of the things you see in MMORPG's today are from eq |
| 03:37.35 | Beladona | they were the first major one |
| 03:37.48 | Corrodias | you prefer that the guild tag just shout "i'm the guild tag!" constantly, perhaps? :) |
| 03:37.54 | Corrodias | audio method |
| 03:38.03 | Beladona | no but they could use nameplates |
| 03:38.03 | Legorol | no, i prefer different font, color, size, italics meyhaps |
| 03:38.10 | Legorol | <> is almost as bad as using "" |
| 03:38.29 | Legorol | or any kind of visual delimiter |
| 03:38.32 | Corrodias | ah, i like <>, so.. bug off |
| 03:38.34 | Legorol | but < and >? |
| 03:38.42 | Legorol | ok Corrodias, i'll do just that |
| 03:38.44 | Legorol | g'night :-) |
| 03:38.47 | Corrodias | 'ni |
| 03:40.50 | Tain | I say <> is better than ~= |
| 03:41.36 | Beladona | it is easily recognizable |
| 03:41.41 | Beladona | most people know what it means |
| 03:41.50 | Beladona | so yeah it works |
| 03:43.08 | Corrodias | ~=? heh.. under someone's name, ~The Final Sanctum= |
| 03:44.41 | Tain | Nah, a bad Lua/programming joke of sorts. Not equals is <> in some language or languages. Lua's ~= for not equals boggles most people as to where it came from. |
| 03:44.55 | Corrodias | ah. yes. |
| 03:44.59 | Beladona | hehe |
| 03:46.55 | Fanook | my theory is stupid logic ~ is often used as logical not when the proper character can't |
| 03:48.02 | Corrodias | ...what? |
| 03:48.24 | Corrodias | maybe some punctuation will help :( |
| 03:49.09 | Fanook | hrh |
| 03:49.11 | Fanook | *heh |
| 03:49.53 | Tain | ah maybe I'll just go ahead and try Ubuntu. |
| 03:50.06 | Fanook | Logic 101. the proper notation for logical not is Ź |
| 03:50.20 | Corrodias | correct |
| 03:50.33 | Fanook | since that's not on any keyboard, it's common to use the tilde instead |
| 03:50.40 | Corrodias | i see |
| 03:52.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Te1 (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 03:52.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Red`Gone (n=L@cpe-72-225-173-204.si.res.rr.com) |
| 03:52.52 | Beladona | go for it Tain |
| 03:52.58 | Beladona | its a pretty good system |
| 03:53.02 | Tain | Wow. I thought I was at least fairly familiar with mathematical logic, but I just looked at the wikipedia page and it was instant over my head. |
| 03:53.42 | Fanook | logic's pretty simple tho...once you learn the rules |
| 03:53.57 | Beladona | question for anyone: wasn't there a bug in CTmod that made the casting bar textures offset? and wasn't is fixed somewhere? |
| 03:54.19 | Tain | The rules, yes. That's what I thought I knew. The symbols they use there however are all Greek to me. (Hah!) |
| 03:54.33 | RedcXe | so i saw the cenarion circle rewards |
| 03:54.35 | RedcXe | :drool: |
| 03:55.54 | Fanook | the hunter one's messed up |
| 03:56.12 | Fanook | unless hunters have finishing moves |
| 03:56.28 | Corrodias | not that i'm aware |
| 03:56.52 | RedcXe | the mage one is kind of like mageblade without the stats |
| 03:57.09 | RedcXe | i guess it wont be so bad if getting rep with cc wont take FOREVER |
| 03:57.27 | Corrodias | aha, by digging around wow.com i found http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/raidarea.html |
| 03:57.50 | RedcXe | thats an old page |
| 03:57.59 | Corrodias | bah |
| 03:58.07 | Corrodias | there has to be something in here that satisfactorally explains raids |
| 03:58.36 | RedcXe | did anyone notice the first servers to open the gates will be pve servers |
| 04:00.34 | Fanook | hmm, this could be interesting...and perhaps a little hazardous: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=305449&p=1&tmp=1#post305449 |
| 04:01.59 | Corrodias | hazardous? |
| 04:02.15 | Corrodias | monkeyspeed already displays it in terms of a percentage of "normal run speed" |
| 04:02.19 | Corrodias | there are no dangers |
| 04:02.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TrickyR_ (n=advertr@71-32-221-65.eugn.qwest.net) |
| 04:02.28 | Fanook | he claims you could measure distance using it |
| 04:02.35 | Cairenn | http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/681/681663p1.html |
| 04:02.51 | Cairenn | you guys may find that interesting |
| 04:02.56 | Corrodias | sure, run for an hour and see how far you get |
| 04:04.04 | Fanook | oh wait, did bliz add a hardware event req for movement? |
| 04:04.54 | Corrodias | yes |
| 04:05.14 | Fanook | nm then |
| 04:05.20 | Corrodias | i'm not aware "movement" functions work at all any more |
| 04:06.01 | Corrodias | this.. lunar festival isn't listed on wow.com's events page |
| 04:06.08 | Corrodias | but we all know how up-to-date THAT place is |
| 04:07.23 | Fanook | where the heck is Lake Elune'ara? |
| 04:07.42 | Corrodias | in moonglade, perhaps |
| 04:10.14 | Fanook | help, i'm hooked on DDR: Mario Mix |
| 04:10.48 | Maldivia | Corrodias: when is the lunar festival ? |
| 04:12.28 | Fanook | it says tonight, posted the 18'th, so yesterday? |
| 04:16.02 | RedcXe | chinese new year based |
| 04:16.13 | RedcXe | i thought blizzard was neutral when it came to real life events |
| 04:17.12 | Fanook | they're had ingame stuff for most of the major holidays so far |
| 04:19.52 | Corrodias | so when is it? |
| 04:19.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (i=Tain@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.08 | Corrodias | it can't have happened yet or we would have heard SOMETHING about it |
| 04:20.19 | Fanook | unless it was only on the chinese servers |
| 04:20.57 | Corrodias | that would annoy me. |
| 04:23.58 | TrickyR_ | AnduinLothar, if you're around, how did your interview go? |
| 04:27.04 | Beladona | isn't this the year of the dog? |
| 04:27.18 | Beladona | hence that mob being a giant dog |
| 04:27.29 | Fanook | interesting theory |
| 04:27.49 | Beladona | and I am thinking that it is indeed chinese servers |
| 04:28.11 | Beladona | just looked it up, this IS the year of the dog |
| 04:28.44 | Beladona | Jan 29th |
| 04:30.01 | Corrodias | sure, the chinese guys get all the gold, now they get a special event! just kidding. but i do hope it's universal. |
| 04:32.41 | Fanook | GetPlayerMapPosition returns the x,y position for the current zone, right? |
| 04:33.03 | Iriel | currently active world map |
| 04:33.05 | Iriel | whichever that one is |
| 04:33.12 | Iriel | there's an API suite for determining and changing that |
| 04:33.45 | Fanook | ok, are all the world maps the same size? |
| 04:34.16 | Iriel | No, that comes back from the API |
| 04:34.22 | Iriel | Look up Map functions in the wiki |
| 04:34.28 | Iriel | (The page is restored and browsable again) |
| 04:34.54 | Beladona | thank god |
| 04:35.15 | Beladona | approved? |
| 04:35.24 | Iriel | Fandyllic did the actual revert |
| 04:35.32 | Beladona | cool |
| 04:37.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Why was it deleted? |
| 04:37.41 | Beladona | what is with the "too big" statement? |
| 04:38.03 | Beladona | what browsers are having problems? pdas and phones? |
| 04:38.08 | Beladona | lol |
| 04:39.30 | Fanook | lynx? |
| 04:39.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey, I'm on lynx now. -.- |
| 04:40.18 | Fanook | i've used lynx....or rather a lynx derivative...at a local library |
| 04:40.54 | Beladona | another thing, why is there a "User Defined Functions" area on that page? Can't that be a separate section, and leave that page for ONLY official API |
| 04:41.38 | Beladona | nm, Flickering said the same thing |
| 04:44.41 | Tain | Two G15 threads on the first page! |
| 04:45.44 | Fanook | that's like having a Starbucks across from a Starbucks@ |
| 04:51.40 | Fanook | *facedesk* "the g-15 is a powerful keyboard. u can make macros with it and it is not third party. blue plz clear this up, is a macro that casts one spell over time to keep from afk illegal? i was told by a gm its legal for now." |
| 04:55.11 | Iriel | Flickering is me, by the way |
| 04:55.12 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 04:58.14 | Codayus | Fanook: That's special in so many special ways.... |
| 04:59.35 | Corrodias | i'm not aware they can start making rules against software or hardware that doesn't even interact directly with the game |
| 04:59.54 | Iriel | They can request that people not use them |
| 04:59.57 | Corrodias | they -can- but they will have quite a time enforcing it and justifying it |
| 05:00.04 | Iriel | and I guess they could prohibit the use of the drivers with warden |
| 05:00.07 | Iriel | but that would get messy |
| 05:00.16 | Iriel | Logitech were exhibitors at Blizzcon, for a start |
| 05:02.16 | Corrodias | i'm not sure there is anything i'd want to automate with keystrokes... |
| 05:02.40 | Corrodias | since any macro you make with a keyboard can't receive in-game events |
| 05:03.17 | Corrodias | without game feedback, there's not much of a potential for bots or anything |
| 05:03.20 | Iriel | Exactly, you can automate death pretty effectively, I imagine |
| 05:04.38 | Codayus | *nod* I totally don't see the point. |
| 05:05.00 | Beladona | awesome, that trunk / branch copy scheme makes my revision graphs come out exactly how I wanted it |
| 05:05.03 | Codayus | Apart from avoiding AFK, I guess, which is bad all on its own. |
| 05:05.11 | Iriel | Beladona : Excellent |
| 05:08.16 | Tain | You can automate a few things. For example you can recreate auto-travel if you wanted to. |
| 05:08.48 | Iriel | It does become a generic 'hardware event generator' for such things |
| 05:08.48 | Tain | If you're a lazy rogue you can hit one button to SSx4 and then Evis |
| 05:09.39 | Tain | It's not going to be an effective bot though, as far as running around killing things. Well, I dont' think so anyway. |
| 05:09.49 | Corrodias | autotravel wasn't a terrible misuse of the game, really.. i wouldn't mind if people did that |
| 05:10.00 | Corrodias | it can't fish/mine/etc |
| 05:10.04 | Tain | But you could make a pretty poor bot that tried to run around and kill things. :) |
| 05:10.20 | Corrodias | it could run in circles swinging a weapon >_> |
| 05:10.43 | Cairenn | no AI in the UI |
| 05:11.10 | Corrodias | even travelling would be unreliable without knowing where you are. enemies can walk across a path sometimes, you might get dazed.. |
| 05:11.25 | Tain | It's fun to have extra macro keys in general though that are easy to hit. |
| 05:11.48 | Tain | Even just to load up the silly things that you don't really need. Fun emotes, and whatnot. |
| 05:12.00 | Corrodias | going across zones in a zep, you can't tell just how long the loading is, and... well, you could use flight paths by setting it up to execute a script in the game, maybe. MAYBE. |
| 05:12.14 | Corrodias | yeah |
| 05:18.56 | Iriel | Youd have to be facing the flight master every time you landed with the cursor in the right spot |
| 05:19.26 | Iriel | Though I suppose you could just keep spinning in circles until you saw it as the mouseover unit |
| 05:20.00 | Tain | hehe that would be so very ugly. |
| 05:21.12 | Fanook | and yet so funny to watch |
| 05:26.45 | Cairenn | well, given how funny the image my mind is conjuring up for that, I think it must be bed time |
| 05:26.47 | Cairenn | night all |
| 05:58.43 | Corrodias | know what -i- would like? |
| 05:58.53 | Corrodias | an addition to item tooltips to state what level the item is |
| 05:59.11 | Corrodias | it seems like everybody in the game knows what items' levels are but me |
| 06:00.58 | Corrodias | ah.. same as "required level" except for BoP's? :P |
| 06:18.18 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 06:29.26 | Natasem | night ya'll |
| 06:32.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 06:47.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 07:34.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TrickyR_ (n=advertr@71-32-221-65.eugn.qwest.net) |
| 07:38.11 | a-stray-cat | is there a way to make the game reload textures? |
| 07:38.26 | Iriel | Exit the client and enter again? |
| 07:38.30 | Iriel | Or is that not what you mean? |
| 07:38.50 | Iriel | If you're talking about adding textures to the install since you started it running, then you have to quit and re-start |
| 07:40.21 | a-stray-cat | other than exiting, i mean |
| 07:40.29 | Iriel | no, there isn't |
| 07:40.32 | a-stray-cat | well im changing a texture :( |
| 07:40.34 | a-stray-cat | bah, thx |
| 07:40.40 | Iriel | a UI reload should replace a texture |
| 07:40.46 | Iriel | assuming you mean a UI texture |
| 07:40.57 | Iriel | if you mean a game texture, you have to exit, as far as I know |
| 07:41.13 | a-stray-cat | ui texture, but im changing the file o.O |
| 07:41.37 | Iriel | as long as (A) it was there when you started and (B) you're not renaming it, then /script ReloadUI() should work |
| 07:42.31 | a-stray-cat | hm |
| 07:42.38 | a-stray-cat | photoshot may just hate my texture then :P |
| 07:44.53 | Iriel | Probably worth a reload just in case |
| 08:00.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:14.36 | Corrodias | i'm some kind of idiot when it comes to getting money in WoW |
| 08:15.10 | Corrodias | a guildmate says he gets most of his from selling white items on the AH. come on, i can never get anything white to sell on there, and even if i do, it's for crap |
| 08:20.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 08:25.12 | Corrodias | frankly, it's ridiculous.. i hardly have any money but i have quite a hard time selling any items |
| 08:25.57 | krka|work | white? |
| 08:27.04 | Corrodias | white ones, green ones, any ones |
| 08:28.48 | krka|work | never seen any white items |
| 08:29.03 | krka|work | only gray, green and blue |
| 08:29.20 | Corrodias | most consumable and trade items are white |
| 08:29.30 | Corrodias | as well as a lot of equipment |
| 08:29.32 | krka|work | i see... never noticed :) |
| 08:33.18 | Iriel | Corrodias : What are your tradeskills? |
| 08:39.49 | krka|work | numchak skills or bowstaff skills? |
| 08:45.06 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 08:45.26 | Cairenn|sleep | how'd the interview go? |
| 08:46.20 | AnduinLothar | pretty well. apparently they're painting so it was a bit dissorganized and the guy didn't have the NDA for me to sign |
| 08:47.18 | AnduinLothar | so legally i can spill some secrets |
| 08:47.28 | AnduinLothar | tho nothing too juicey did I learn |
| 08:47.46 | Iriel | Except that the Alliance race is in fact the Squirrel |
| 08:47.49 | Iriel | So we have a beast race |
| 08:48.20 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 08:48.41 | AnduinLothar | so ya. I think it went pretty well. Forgot to study my wow trivia for th etest tho |
| 08:49.03 | AnduinLothar | You'd think i'd remember the names of the class sets by now |
| 08:49.39 | AnduinLothar | w/e they'd be insane to not hire me |
| 08:49.44 | krka|work | cool! |
| 08:49.49 | krka|work | and why would you need to know trivia? |
| 08:49.55 | krka|work | is that related to the job? |
| 08:50.11 | AnduinLothar | cause they made me take a test, part of which was wow trivia, lol |
| 08:50.28 | krka|work | what kind of job is it btw? |
| 08:50.34 | AnduinLothar | just kinda stuff you would know if youo'd played a lot |
| 08:50.36 | Cairenn|sleep | hard to say "there's a problem with this class set" if you don't know the name of it :p |
| 08:50.53 | AnduinLothar | right, i fully understand the motivation behind the questions |
| 08:50.56 | Cairenn|sleep | QA |
| 08:51.02 | AnduinLothar | but it's not like i dont have access to the internet |
| 08:51.04 | Cairenn|sleep | was 'splaining to krka |
| 08:51.28 | krka|work | quality assurance? |
| 08:51.31 | Corrodias | yeah |
| 08:51.37 | Corrodias | he's their first guy! :D |
| 08:51.39 | AnduinLothar | my tallents ly in information discovery, rather than memory |
| 08:51.42 | krka|work | of game content or game code? |
| 08:51.51 | AnduinLothar | Game Tester |
| 08:52.07 | Corrodias | to continue my previous conversation which i accidentally left, my tradeskills on my main are leatherworking and skinning |
| 08:52.08 | AnduinLothar | not so much code. the coders all req a BS i dont have yet |
| 08:52.09 | krka|work | so you test the new stuff and find bugs if there are any? |
| 08:53.11 | AnduinLothar | Basicly play WoW and sometimes other blizz games non stop, try to break new content and act as guinee pigs for level designers |
| 08:53.43 | AnduinLothar | so any jr' higher's dream job |
| 08:53.57 | Kalroth | Cairenn is sleeptalking! |
| 08:54.23 | krka|work | yeah |
| 08:54.30 | Cairenn|sleep | yeah, Cair has too much on her mind, couldn't sleep tonight |
| 08:54.34 | AnduinLothar | not quit the wages I should get with my computer expertice, but it's better than min wage |
| 08:54.55 | AnduinLothar | and a great game industry steppign stone |
| 08:55.00 | Kalroth | Cair needs to drink (more?) red whine, that'll help Cair relax and sleep! |
| 08:55.18 | Cairenn|sleep | really frustrating though, I'd basically gotten my sleep schedule reset to something reasonable, too |
| 08:55.33 | Cairenn|sleep | and now it's gonna be all messed up again |
| 08:55.36 | AnduinLothar | well, if i get this job my sleep schedule's going to hell |
| 08:56.17 | AnduinLothar | and you know what's really tripping me out... I was just invited to join a Frat on campus |
| 08:56.50 | Cairenn|sleep | neat |
| 08:57.00 | AnduinLothar | Frat wants to know by Monday, Blizz wont call for a week and I think tomorrow is deadline for class drops... |
| 08:57.13 | Kalroth | :( |
| 08:57.15 | AnduinLothar | so not good timing |
| 08:58.38 | Kalroth | "Simply by pulling on both ends, Chuck Norris can stretch diamonds back into coal." <- I bet Chuck isn't popular with the girls! |
| 08:58.46 | Cairenn|sleep | try talking to the registrar's office, they are usually pretty good about things if you are up front and explain things to them |
| 08:59.18 | AnduinLothar | if i go with blizz they get my soul, I drop 98% of addon coding, drop Latin, try to keep my grades up and stay alive. If Blizz doesn't want me then I may or may not join the frat but I need a part time job and i need to work my ass off in school.. |
| 08:59.59 | AnduinLothar | but the frat wants to know before i hear from blizz |
| 09:00.24 | Cairenn|sleep | I still think my favorite one from the site is "Mr. T is the only man alive who can bring a woman to instant orgasm simply by pointing at her and saying 'booyah' " |
| 09:00.35 | Kalroth | AnduinLothar: so tell the frat yes and wait for Blizz .. if yes from BLizz then apologize to the frat and go sell your soul :) |
| 09:00.44 | Kalroth | Cairenn|sleep: haha |
| 09:00.53 | AnduinLothar | still have to decide if i wanna do the frat |
| 09:01.39 | AnduinLothar | i like the opportunities and community it would bring, but the whole thing just seems kinda wrong to me. |
| 09:01.57 | AnduinLothar | i understand the $ commitment for organizing and such |
| 09:02.07 | AnduinLothar | i understand the time commit |
| 09:02.20 | krka|work | can't code addon while working for bliz? |
| 09:02.26 | krka|work | or dont have time? |
| 09:02.31 | AnduinLothar | wont have time |
| 09:02.42 | AnduinLothar | the guy said it wasn't prohibitted |
| 09:02.50 | Kalroth | d'oh |
| 09:03.02 | krka|work | i don't really have time either :/ |
| 09:03.05 | AnduinLothar | but with full time work and full school i'm gonna be lucky to sleep |
| 09:03.24 | AnduinLothar | shift is 7pm-4am |
| 09:05.19 | AnduinLothar | and i have a quiz tomorrow in latin... |
| 09:05.39 | AnduinLothar | so if i'm keeping latin i need to study and sleep... |
| 09:05.55 | AnduinLothar | no time o deate.. |
| 09:05.58 | AnduinLothar | to debate with myself |
| 09:06.09 | AnduinLothar | bah... whole think hurts my head |
| 09:07.12 | Cairenn|sleep | well, after your quiz, go talk to registrar's office about possibly needing to drop classes late |
| 09:07.37 | AnduinLothar | gotta researhc. it might just be cs dept that has tomorrow deadline |
| 09:07.56 | Cairenn|sleep | dunno down there, but the ones I've been to, if you talk to them, they are reasonable |
| 09:09.23 | AnduinLothar | sad part is i dont want to go to the teacher cause he's really nice and let me retake a quiz i slept though a week later.. |
| 09:10.19 | AnduinLothar | and i kinda want to talk to my parents and best friend for moral support and advice, but cant get a hold of anyone |
| 09:12.49 | Corrodias | hey, i would recommend not joining the fraternity in either case |
| 09:12.54 | Corrodias | you sound like you spend enough time already |
| 09:17.00 | AnduinLothar | no idea what happens to Cosmos if I go ith blizz either |
| 09:17.09 | AnduinLothar | would need someone to step up |
| 09:17.23 | AnduinLothar | a couple someones |
| 09:17.32 | Corrodias | well, you're in the right place for it |
| 09:17.48 | Cairenn|sleep | either they will or they won't, it won't really be your concern |
| 09:18.00 | AnduinLothar | no, it wont |
| 09:18.06 | Cairenn|sleep | yeah, that sounded harsh, didn't it? but it's true |
| 09:18.20 | AnduinLothar | which is a bit sad since i've spent a year of my life on it |
| 09:18.33 | Cairenn|sleep | RL job with potential for advancement in the future >>>> hobby |
| 09:18.40 | AnduinLothar | definitely |
| 09:18.53 | Cairenn|sleep | not like folks won't understand |
| 09:19.11 | Cairenn|sleep | but, sorry, of everything you've said so far, Cosmos should be the *least* of your concerns |
| 09:19.18 | AnduinLothar | the question is whether full time job in the field > finnishing education quickly and then finding a job |
| 09:19.36 | Corrodias | usually, you can go back to school if you have to |
| 09:19.36 | Cairenn|sleep | well, that is an actual debate that you |
| 09:19.41 | Cairenn|sleep | you'll have to figure out |
| 09:19.58 | Corrodias | but that may be a fine start IF game design/implementation/maintenance is what you're interested in |
| 09:20.12 | AnduinLothar | right, I'm not possitive |
| 09:20.40 | AnduinLothar | i majored Comp Sci and Engineering cause I was unsure what I wanted to do, just something creative with computers |
| 09:21.06 | AnduinLothar | I think I'm pushing out most of the Pure Hardware |
| 09:21.21 | AnduinLothar | I enjoy the high level a lot more |
| 09:21.22 | Corrodias | well, your hobby here is in that field, which indicates you must enjoy it a little |
| 09:21.32 | Corrodias | or you're a real masochist. either way you'd win. >_> |
| 09:21.33 | Cairenn|sleep | yes, future employers like that little piece of paper, but they also like rl hands on been there done that field experience |
| 09:21.45 | AnduinLothar | right. |
| 09:22.07 | Corrodias | brb |
| 09:22.13 | AnduinLothar | plus i can stop lookign for a job.... I absolutely HATE looking and applying |
| 09:22.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 09:22.45 | AnduinLothar | besides... I applied 3 times to blizz and they ignored me |
| 09:22.57 | AnduinLothar | applying is useless |
| 09:23.22 | AnduinLothar | unless oyu're resume is glowing radioactive uberness |
| 09:23.52 | Cairenn|sleep | getting in for an interview counts, though |
| 09:24.21 | AnduinLothar | wasn't my doing. friend pushed my resume into his bosses hands. i doubt they even read my apps |
| 09:26.09 | Cairenn|sleep | having friends on the inside helps, definitely |
| 09:26.32 | Cairenn|sleep | that is where (good) frats "can" pay off in the future ... more connections ... |
| 09:26.38 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 09:26.57 | AnduinLothar | i dont see those connections in my choice of fields tho with that frat |
| 09:27.02 | Cairenn|sleep | but even if you don't get the job, do you really have time? |
| 09:27.48 | AnduinLothar | If I drop UI coding... which i enjoy |
| 09:27.55 | Corrodias | that's what i'm thinking... i see there's social value in fraternities but it sounds like your schedule is pretty full already, albiet partly with wow |
| 09:28.06 | krka|work | social stuff sucks |
| 09:28.18 | AnduinLothar | social networks are fickle |
| 09:28.49 | AnduinLothar | tho it is good too know the fat guys unanimously decided they liked me enough to invite me |
| 09:28.53 | AnduinLothar | frat* |
| 09:29.05 | Corrodias | tip: don't call them the fat guys |
| 09:29.08 | AnduinLothar | so i'm not a complete social outcast |
| 09:29.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@adsl-63-204-72-176.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 09:29.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 09:29.51 | AnduinLothar | and there's something to be said for having turned down a frat.. considering what frosh's go through to get in |
| 09:30.24 | Corrodias | people generally like me, too. unfortunately they forget me as soon as i'm out of the range of vision, so i can't really depend on connections, whatever it is i'm going to do when i get out. |
| 09:31.01 | AnduinLothar | i hate asking people to do me favors |
| 09:32.26 | AnduinLothar | wonder if i can gain some sort of sway over what gets put in the defaul tui |
| 09:33.14 | Corrodias | we-ell... |
| 09:33.26 | AnduinLothar | not in the immediate future |
| 09:34.03 | Corrodias | maybe. first, tell them to fix the alt-self-cast thing. it sucks. :P |
| 09:34.12 | Iriel | Sleep time! |
| 09:34.17 | Kalroth | nite Iriel! |
| 09:34.17 | Corrodias | 'ni iriel... wait! |
| 09:34.18 | AnduinLothar | it does? works fine for em |
| 09:34.18 | Cairenn|sleep | night Iriel |
| 09:34.33 | Corrodias | we were talking about my tradeskills? |
| 09:34.48 | Iriel | Yeah, I just wondered if you'd picked enchanting and tailoring, a recipe for destitution |
| 09:34.52 | Corrodias | i have healing spells put on the bottom left 'extra' bar, right above the normal one |
| 09:34.58 | Corrodias | nah, leatherworking and skinning |
| 09:35.24 | Cairenn|sleep | Kalroth: I know |
| 09:35.28 | Corrodias | which means that any materials i manage to scrounge up get dumped into producing stuff that i'd be lucky to sell |
| 09:35.38 | AnduinLothar | make those shift-key and then alt-shift-key is self cast alt bar |
| 09:35.43 | Iriel | Anyone want a peek at the work in progress statrings drag stuff? |
| 09:35.58 | Corrodias | i do have them as shift-number and i used alt-shift-number. it still wanted me to select a target. :( |
| 09:35.59 | AnduinLothar | tomorrow |
| 09:36.21 | AnduinLothar | works on this end |
| 09:36.34 | Corrodias | hmmm... |
| 09:36.54 | Corrodias | trying again |
| 09:37.10 | Cairenn|sleep | I would Iriel, but I'm so fried it'd be pointless |
| 09:37.10 | AnduinLothar | tho i generally keep all my casts on the main bar and leave the second bar for seals |
| 09:37.27 | Corrodias | seals? must be paladin? |
| 09:37.28 | Iriel | I'd be worried i'd keep you up playing with it |
| 09:37.35 | Iriel | I'm supposed to be in bed already myself |
| 09:37.39 | AnduinLothar | full bar of seals |
| 09:37.41 | Cairenn|sleep | heh |
| 09:37.49 | Cairenn|sleep | naw, not you guys keeping me up at all |
| 09:37.53 | AnduinLothar | all auto self cast |
| 09:38.22 | Corrodias | alt+shift+3 = blue hand to select target |
| 09:38.26 | krka|work | AnduinLothar, tell them to reenable movement functions without keypress :) |
| 09:38.31 | AnduinLothar | HA |
| 09:38.49 | krka|work | demand it! if you don't get it, threaten to quit |
| 09:38.51 | AnduinLothar | nah, if anything i'll find a way to break decursive without breaking anything else |
| 09:39.21 | Corrodias | interesting |
| 09:39.27 | krka|work | you could suggest not allowing both spell casting and movement from the same hardware event |
| 09:39.35 | Corrodias | in the keybinds menu, there's a "self action 1" through 12, assigned alt-1 through alt-= |
| 09:39.38 | AnduinLothar | why the hell am i repping cenarian cirlce... only enchanting and leatherworking crap |
| 09:40.11 | AnduinLothar | there so needs to be weapon smithing plans at revered |
| 09:40.16 | krka|work | ooh cair... i like it like that! |
| 09:40.24 | Corrodias | are you sure you don't have another addon that adds alt-self-casting? i do |
| 09:41.33 | krka|work | AnduinLothar, you could also make target selection require a keypress |
| 09:41.34 | AnduinLothar | oh wow.. now i know why im reppign cenarian... the class specific quest rewards are uber |
| 09:42.14 | AnduinLothar | omg i soo need exulted Blade of Eternal Justice |
| 09:42.54 | Kalroth | paladin gimp! |
| 09:43.01 | AnduinLothar | holy crap. the set bonus with all 3 is 20% chance to gain 100 mana on judgement and all of the items have mana/sec or healing |
| 09:43.39 | AnduinLothar | ok... screw dukes.. I'm gonna turn in ym 22 crests.. |
| 09:43.41 | Corrodias | basic fact, i think all 1.9 did was add keybinds for self-casting your main action bar |
| 09:43.52 | Corrodias | you still need an addon to use alt to self-cast from any bar |
| 09:44.17 | AnduinLothar | well you need one for alt-click which is what sucks |
| 09:44.32 | AnduinLothar | i alt click all the time with BarOptions |
| 09:46.02 | AnduinLothar | oh wow.. those CC shaman items are 1337 |
| 09:46.22 | AnduinLothar | 10 less dps tho on the 1h |
| 09:46.27 | AnduinLothar | than the pally |
| 09:46.41 | AnduinLothar | guess they really want pally to melle |
| 09:47.20 | AnduinLothar | meh. the warriror items are only so so |
| 09:48.46 | Cairenn|sleep | Karl ... go study and get sleep |
| 09:49.23 | AnduinLothar | oh yeah... got distracted |
| 09:49.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 09:49.41 | Cairenn|sleep | noticed |
| 09:50.11 | krka|work | says you :P |
| 09:50.22 | Cairenn|sleep | I don't have an exam in the morning |
| 09:50.45 | Cairenn|sleep | good thing, since it's 5am here :p |
| 09:51.39 | AnduinLothar | just turned in 5 sets of Abysal Crests |
| 09:53.47 | Cairenn|sleep | do I need to kick you from channel? |
| 09:53.56 | Cairenn|sleep | :p |
| 09:55.34 | AnduinLothar | mmm why didn't i think of this before... use my alt as an AH bot and just mail him all the loot from sithilis |
| 09:56.31 | krka|work | you haven't thought of that before? |
| 09:56.37 | krka|work | that's very common i think |
| 09:56.50 | AnduinLothar | ya, i must be dumb |
| 09:56.51 | Corrodias | it is. i just wish i got any decent loot to mail. |
| 09:57.04 | krka|work | i don't do it myself though :) |
| 09:57.14 | AnduinLothar | the abysal stuff from sithilis sells well |
| 09:57.22 | Corrodias | i'm sure it does, lucky bastard |
| 09:57.32 | AnduinLothar | but nothing else does on this tweeked out server 99% 60 |
| 09:59.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge subsonic (n=SubSonic@64.17.250.94) |
| 09:59.57 | Corrodias | [away] @ reading a little and then bed - i have work tomorrow! |
| 10:00.03 | AnduinLothar | night |
| 10:00.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 10:01.16 | Cairenn|sleep | night AnduinLothar |
| 10:01.31 | Cairenn|sleep | and Corrodias |
| 10:23.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 10:33.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 10:35.05 | Elkano | good (whatever) :) |
| 10:35.41 | Elkano | Anyone knows the string GetItemInfo returns for ammo bags as 5. value (itemType)? |
| 10:39.40 | Kalroth | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetItemInfo |
| 10:41.11 | Elkano | well, unfortunatly, the return values aren't listed there ^^ |
| 10:41.15 | Kalroth | oh sorry, misread the quest |
| 10:41.19 | Kalroth | question :) |
| 10:41.31 | Kalroth | buy an ammo bag and check it :P |
| 10:41.45 | Elkano | problem is that I've the German client ^^ |
| 10:42.03 | Kalroth | I think it returns 'Ammo Pouch' though |
| 10:42.39 | Kalroth | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=296343&tmp=1 |
| 10:43.27 | Elkano | ah, thx :) exactly what I was looking for :) |
| 11:18.19 | krka|work | i love it when women pass out!... err... never mind |
| 11:27.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 12:19.22 | Kalroth | haha krka |
| 12:41.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 13:10.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:45.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 14:24.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 14:24.29 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:24.52 | Kalroth | hi Bela! |
| 14:29.08 | Beladona | hiya |
| 14:29.18 | Beladona | sorry for the delay, was catching up on emails |
| 14:36.48 | Kalroth | :/ |
| 16:33.38 | Osagasu | Have you all seen the Cenarion Circle rewards? *drool* I wish I had a 60 right now... |
| 16:38.19 | Osagasu | But... Warlock rewards? |
| 16:38.31 | Osagasu | Isn't that like completely AGAINST the Cenarion Circle? |
| 16:39.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 16:51.41 | subsonic | On the servers you play on, does Alliance suck in AV? |
| 17:09.12 | Osagasu | Not so much |
| 17:09.29 | Osagasu | At lwast none of my guildies whine and moan about losing AV |
| 17:27.57 | id` | NO MORE ADDON DESCRIPTIONS BEGINNING WITH "wouldn't you" "don't you" "I tried all the other mods but didnt like it" ETC |
| 17:28.04 | id` | :@ |
| 17:28.12 | id` | im sick of even reading the descriptions |
| 17:28.34 | id` | blah blah blah story and i still dont know what the damn thing does |
| 17:30.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@20.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 17:30.15 | Shouryuu | rrawr |
| 17:32.29 | Shouryuu | I am probably the biggest retart god ever created |
| 17:32.34 | Shouryuu | *retard |
| 17:38.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71-35-116-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:42.06 | Cide | probably! |
| 17:44.23 | Shouryuu | meannie |
| 17:44.58 | Shouryuu | I actually insatlled linux, without knowing how to launch the GUI |
| 17:45.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (i=Tain@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.21 | Shouryuu | it took me a whole week to get back to windows, and then try to read the documentation I should have read |
| 17:48.45 | Cide | hehehe |
| 17:49.09 | id` | lol |
| 17:49.18 | id` | first thing anyone learning linux should learn |
| 17:49.18 | id` | is |
| 17:49.27 | id` | how to work with the commandline |
| 17:49.29 | subsonic | id: I agrtee with your descriptions |
| 17:49.37 | subsonic | I mean, with your comment on them |
| 17:49.41 | id` | subsonic, where? :-) |
| 17:50.02 | subsonic | <id`> NO MORE ADDON DESCRIPTIONS BEGINNING WITH "wouldn't you" "don't you" "I tried all the other mods but didnt like it" ETC |
| 17:50.09 | id` | right |
| 17:50.19 | subsonic | It like, just list the features |
| 17:50.22 | subsonic | I wish I could write a mod |
| 17:50.36 | id` | lern2listfeatsmmkbye |
| 17:51.06 | id` | Shouryuu, try multibooting first |
| 17:51.10 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 17:51.11 | Shouryuu | I will |
| 17:51.15 | id` | or even try out a free shell |
| 17:51.30 | id` | and do stuff with it like making little programs |
| 17:51.33 | Shouryuu | learning the command line without having to the docs is tough though.. |
| 17:51.53 | id` | ;\ |
| 17:51.57 | Shouryuu | Grubs killed me |
| 17:52.01 | Shouryuu | I couldn't launch windows |
| 17:52.07 | Shouryuu | if I tried to reinstall |
| 17:52.09 | id` | o nasty |
| 17:52.17 | id` | oh lol just pop in the windows CD |
| 17:52.23 | id` | go to the console |
| 17:52.24 | Shouryuu | I didn't have one =P |
| 17:52.26 | id` | FIXMBR |
| 17:52.28 | id` | done |
| 17:52.29 | id` | LOL |
| 17:52.30 | id` | :D |
| 17:52.33 | Shouryuu | ohh didn't know that |
| 17:52.47 | id` | you prolly had grub installed on the master boot record |
| 17:52.51 | Shouryuu | yup |
| 17:52.54 | id` | (i always do that too) |
| 17:53.12 | Shouryuu | I didn't understand the consequences unitlll... |
| 17:55.04 | Shouryuu | ohhh do any of you know "sud-ho ku"? |
| 18:01.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:01.57 | ToastTheif | jeeeeeeer |
| 18:04.45 | Shouryuu | jeer? |
| 18:05.33 | ToastTheif | weee |
| 18:05.59 | Shouryuu | so no one here knows sudoku? |
| 18:06.07 | ToastTheif | Shour |
| 18:06.14 | ToastTheif | what server you play on? |
| 18:07.22 | Shouryuu | Boulderfist |
| 18:07.25 | Shouryuu | but I never play |
| 18:07.44 | ToastTheif | Somone should play on Smolderthorn |
| 18:08.02 | Shouryuu | why? |
| 18:08.37 | ToastTheif | because that's where I play! duh |
| 18:09.25 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 18:11.12 | ToastTheif | ok Im gonna go mess around with Visor |
| 18:11.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:11.56 | ToastTheif | arg |
| 18:11.58 | ToastTheif | https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/ can't load? |
| 18:12.36 | Shouryuu | seems not |
| 18:12.40 | ToastTheif | gah |
| 18:13.24 | Shouryuu | nope it's working |
| 18:13.29 | Shouryuu | just my internet pissing me off |
| 18:13.43 | ToastTheif | are you sure? |
| 18:13.46 | ToastTheif | won't load for me |
| 18:13.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 18:14.16 | Shouryuu | yup it's working |
| 18:16.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 18:16.20 | Shouryuu | soo no sudoku fans here? |
| 18:16.22 | Tem | the one peat guy got all the donations he needed :) |
| 18:16.30 | Shouryuu | ? |
| 18:16.34 | Tem | www.onepeat.com |
| 18:17.16 | ToastTheif | enough of the onpeat |
| 18:17.35 | Shouryuu | and that is for? |
| 18:17.59 | ToastTheif | hmm |
| 18:18.07 | ToastTheif | https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/ still not working |
| 18:18.14 | ToastTheif | neither is http://mastaile.mine.nu/FuncBook/ |
| 18:18.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 18:20.51 | Tem | Shouryuu: it's a college rivalry thing |
| 18:21.48 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 18:25.30 | Tain | ace trac is working fine for me. |
| 18:27.51 | Tem | same here |
| 18:30.34 | id` | http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/ |
| 18:30.36 | id` | zomg the colors! |
| 18:32.54 | Shouryuu | anyone here know a good movie preview program? |
| 18:33.15 | Shouryuu | I hate having 10 megs left on a download and not being able to see it... |
| 18:33.47 | id` | google for pron watch |
| 18:33.57 | id` | :B |
| 18:34.06 | id` | j/k |
| 18:34.11 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 18:34.25 | Shouryuu | now seriously young one |
| 18:35.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|ZZzz (n=chatzill@host-70-45-84-10.onelinkpr.net) |
| 18:35.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:36.02 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=305827 |
| 18:36.04 | Iriel | post 65 |
| 18:38.42 | id` | :O |
| 18:38.46 | id` | got a screenshot? |
| 18:40.00 | Iriel | Sadly not, no wow at work at the moment, and I was up too late last night. |
| 18:40.05 | Iriel | Hopefully some kind soul here can take one |
| 18:40.37 | id` | k |
| 18:41.06 | Cide | hmm |
| 18:41.07 | Tem | IrielSeaHooks.lua |
| 18:41.09 | Tem | ? |
| 18:42.38 | Iriel | I was helping clean it up. |
| 18:44.05 | Shouryuu | wow those rings are really nice |
| 18:44.37 | Shouryuu | I didn't like the very first version |
| 18:44.40 | Shouryuu | but those are nice |
| 18:44.52 | Cide | I've been wanting to check some similar mod out for a while, but I haven't found the time |
| 18:44.57 | Iriel | the very first version (full circles) didn't look so hot. |
| 18:45.03 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 18:45.14 | Shouryuu | I really didn't like them |
| 18:45.20 | Iriel | much of the work in the newer releases is actually framework for a much more configurable ring experience tho |
| 18:45.31 | Iriel | Flipping between ring styles should end up fairly easy. |
| 18:46.22 | Shouryuu | i am so exhausted |
| 18:46.24 | Shouryuu | studies ftl |
| 18:47.22 | Cide | I wonder if it would be possible to create some kind of snapshot of a picture on the drawing board... a simple scaling down wouldn't be possible |
| 18:47.48 | Cide | though I imagine it would take longer than what it's worth |
| 18:47.52 | Iriel | How do you mean 'snapshot' ? |
| 18:48.25 | Cide | say a 72x54 picture representing the current 512x512 |
| 18:49.04 | Cide | well, the current 740x555 really, its virtual size is 512x512 |
| 18:50.43 | Iriel | Hm it's probably not worthwhile, but you could try some line-reduction techniques on hand drawn lines |
| 18:50.55 | Beladona | ugh |
| 18:51.07 | Beladona | just spent the past 3 hours setting up shelving units |
| 18:51.15 | Iriel | re-quantize to a smaller grid and merge successive line segments that are close enough to a single line |
| 18:51.48 | Tem | Iriel: I really don't need to see my name there all the time |
| 18:51.51 | Tem | How do I hide it? |
| 18:52.09 | Iriel | Tem: READ MY POST 8-) |
| 18:52.15 | Tem | oh lol |
| 18:52.26 | Tem | I did, just not very carefully |
| 18:52.31 | Iriel | evidently 8-) |
| 18:53.10 | Iriel | You could call StatRingsUnitPlayer.nameFrame:SetAlpha(0) |
| 18:53.28 | Iriel | That'd take care of it for now |
| 18:54.49 | Tem | does your post say that I Can't do that yet? |
| 18:55.06 | Tem | because I don't see any mention of it |
| 18:55.18 | Tem | and that could be simply because I'm not awake yet |
| 18:56.07 | Iriel | "It's got a few quirks (most notably that label hiding isn't enabled for any of the rings) " |
| 18:59.02 | Tem | ah |
| 18:59.09 | Tem | I do remember reading that now |
| 18:59.14 | Tem | it just didn't click |
| 18:59.50 | Iriel | That's okay, it's been a long week for me so I can sympathize with anyone feeling a bit slow this morning |
| 19:01.47 | Beladona | this morning? |
| 19:01.49 | Beladona | try all day |
| 19:01.57 | Shouryuu | try all week... |
| 19:01.58 | Beladona | this weekend is so needed |
| 19:02.23 | Tem | I can't wait |
| 19:02.28 | Shouryuu | I concure |
| 19:02.30 | Tain | Ubuntu does not wish to be my friend. |
| 19:02.36 | Tem | It's the AV holiday weekend |
| 19:02.41 | Shouryuu | I'm already in W-E!!! |
| 19:02.45 | Tem | so I'll finally get to play an AV game |
| 19:02.45 | Shouryuu | france FTW |
| 19:02.52 | subsonic | Have you seen the video where this guy gets to places you're not supposed to go? Like in the wwter at deeprun tram |
| 19:03.03 | Shouryuu | wwter? |
| 19:03.33 | Tem | water maybe? |
| 19:03.45 | subsonic | water |
| 19:03.51 | Shouryuu | aaahh |
| 19:03.54 | subsonic | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9089007379479388021&q=warcraft |
| 19:04.02 | subsonic | He goes to all these different places |
| 19:04.08 | subsonic | and this is supposed to be on a live server |
| 19:04.20 | Shouryuu | can't view it... |
| 19:04.21 | Beladona | Tain: you having issues with ubuntu? |
| 19:04.36 | Shouryuu | and why does my firefox open 2 windows of every link I click on? |
| 19:04.46 | Beladona | ? |
| 19:04.51 | Beladona | windows? |
| 19:04.55 | Shouryuu | two tabs |
| 19:04.56 | Iriel | Yay, caught up the first post on the 1.10 changes thread |
| 19:04.59 | Beladona | as in ms windows? |
| 19:05.05 | Shouryuu | as in firefox tabs |
| 19:05.14 | Beladona | no.... I mean is it ON ms windows? |
| 19:05.18 | Beladona | lol |
| 19:05.48 | Shouryuu | oh, yes :P |
| 19:06.02 | Beladona | weird |
| 19:06.06 | Shouryuu | my attemps to install linux have been a total failure |
| 19:06.12 | Shouryuu | due to my simple lack of IQ |
| 19:06.22 | Shouryuu | so I'm waiting for my next holidays to give it a try :p |
| 19:06.29 | Beladona | I have 3 160gb drives on my home machine, I am gonna dedicate one to linux |
| 19:06.46 | Beladona | once I get the courage to move all the crap I have on it to another drive |
| 19:06.47 | Tain | Yeah Beladona, it won't install. Errors. A bunch of pepole have the same issue on the Ubuntu forums, but the only thing people keep saying is, "Burn the image at 1x." |
| 19:07.17 | Beladona | Tain: did you check the hash on the iso before you burned? |
| 19:07.42 | Beladona | that is a common source of most install issues |
| 19:07.45 | Beladona | bad image |
| 19:08.02 | Tain | Yeah, md5 on the ISO checks out fine. There's two files inside the ISO that fail, but accodring to other people on the forums it's in every image like that and installs anyway. |
| 19:08.02 | Shouryuu | Yeah I was wondering that, how does installing a OS on a external HDD work? I mean, do I just plug it in and launch from there? |
| 19:08.22 | Tain | I've also downloaded the ISO from 3 different locations, burned using 2 different burners at varying speeds and settings. |
| 19:09.17 | Shouryuu | Tain - ubuntu hates me too. I got stuck on "Uncompressing package... Ok, booting from Kernel" with a an ISO that checked out flawlessly on md5... |
| 19:10.30 | Tem | Iriel: Very nice work with the dragable anchors |
| 19:10.33 | Tem | Iriel: I like it :) |
| 19:10.51 | Iriel | Tem|Class: Thanks 8-) |
| 19:13.32 | Cide | yeah... scaling down all coordinates from 512x512 to 72x55 didn't look that good |
| 19:13.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (i=astrayca@moobilenet1-108.ucdavis.edu) |
| 19:13.52 | Iriel | Cide: That doesn't really surprise me 8-) |
| 19:14.00 | Cide | and that was with 15 objects :) |
| 19:14.02 | Iriel | Cide: 128 x 128 may be tolerable, who knows? |
| 19:14.25 | Iriel | Cide: But at a certain point without significant antialiasing (and even with) stuff just degenerates into crap |
| 19:15.30 | Beladona | that is a weird issue Tain, mine installed like it was my best friend |
| 19:15.39 | Beladona | must be system specific issues |
| 19:15.48 | Beladona | possibly even cdrom firmware |
| 19:16.15 | Iriel | Always worth checking for an up-to-date BIOS too |
| 19:16.23 | Beladona | aye |
| 19:17.15 | Beladona | about to buy one of those new Dell PentiumD laptops, they look damn sexy |
| 19:18.03 | Iriel | Bah, thinkpad |
| 19:18.07 | Iriel | the only way to go for a laptop |
| 19:18.37 | Iriel | (Well, i guess it does depend, my fiancee has a dell and it's still working after a couple of years, it's damn heavy tho)_ |
| 19:18.57 | Beladona | you can't beat the dell widescreen laptops though |
| 19:19.08 | Beladona | with UXGA and rtuelife |
| 19:19.13 | Iriel | IBM have a widescreen thinkpad now, i'm told |
| 19:19.13 | Beladona | err truelife |
| 19:19.27 | Beladona | they have the ones that pivot right? the tablets? |
| 19:20.00 | Beladona | we go dell because we have a special account with them. We get deals you will never see on their website, just by calling |
| 19:20.04 | Iriel | I'm not sure they have any tablets anymore |
| 19:21.00 | Iriel | I've just become a huge thinkpad convert, they've been fantastic machines, and very lightweight |
| 19:21.24 | Beladona | I would have to try one |
| 19:21.44 | Iriel | Yeah, I had a couple via work to push me over the dge |
| 19:21.47 | pagefault | o |
| 19:21.57 | Beladona | very anxious for this new one though, it has a 7800 go video |
| 19:21.59 | Iriel | I dont know what the whole Lenovo deal does to that tho, I'm hoping the quality doesn't slip. |
| 19:22.02 | pagefault | i've heard too many bad things about thinkpad since IBM sold it off |
| 19:22.39 | Iriel | How much is conjecture? And how much is real? As far as I know the product lines didn't change yet |
| 19:23.45 | pagefault | the support has gone down the drain since leveno took over, my friend with a leveno thinkpad has broken 3 times and he has sent it in 2 times the first time they didn't even bother to fix it and sent it right back to him |
| 19:24.20 | Iriel | One of the 'consumer' thinkpads, or the 'business' ones? |
| 19:24.29 | pagefault | consumer |
| 19:24.41 | pagefault | I don't see why you should be treated any differently because you are a consumer |
| 19:24.56 | Iriel | I haven't had much experience with those, though they didn't seem quite as well constructed. |
| 19:25.06 | Iriel | I was more focussing on the 'broken 3 times' part 8-) |
| 19:25.19 | pagefault | my dell has screwed up a lot of times |
| 19:25.23 | pagefault | but they have been good about replacing it |
| 19:25.36 | Beladona | trust me, there is a big difference |
| 19:25.38 | Iriel | Yeah, i've had good dell experiences with replacement parts |
| 19:25.44 | Beladona | business support is much better |
| 19:25.53 | Iriel | it costs a lot more too (business support/machines) |
| 19:25.53 | Beladona | mostly because it often means repeat business |
| 19:26.04 | Iriel | They've overnighted me a keyboard in the past, which was nice of them. |
| 19:26.08 | Iriel | (Dell, again) |
| 19:26.12 | Beladona | lets put it this way |
| 19:26.19 | Beladona | I order stuff on ground |
| 19:26.21 | Beladona | always |
| 19:26.27 | Beladona | it almost ALWAYS get here next day |
| 19:26.34 | Beladona | (DELL) |
| 19:26.45 | pagefault | well they gave me an entire new notebook |
| 19:26.48 | pagefault | with a faster processor |
| 19:26.52 | pagefault | when I needed a replacement |
| 19:32.18 | Tain | I love Thinkpads at work, when I don't have to pay for them myself. |
| 19:32.27 | Tain | I wouldn't buy one for myself because of the price. |
| 19:33.34 | Tain | Of course I also prefer the "nipple" to the touch pad or rollerball. |
| 19:33.53 | Iriel | I can't use touch pads, they drive me insane |
| 19:34.32 | Tain | I can, for a while I even used an external touchpad instead of a mouse on my PC. But only for a while. :) |
| 19:36.45 | pagefault | do they still have the clitoris mouse |
| 19:36.49 | pagefault | as I like to call it |
| 19:37.09 | pagefault | or the pencil eraser |
| 19:37.28 | Beladona | I believe that is what Tain meant by the "nipple" |
| 19:37.34 | pagefault | ahh |
| 19:37.42 | pagefault | everyone seems to come up with a sexual name for that thing |
| 19:37.43 | pagefault | hehe |
| 19:41.55 | Tain | As someone said, "The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned." |
| 19:43.41 | pagefault | haha |
| 19:49.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 19:49.59 | ToastTheif | hey |
| 19:50.02 | ToastTheif | anyone here/ |
| 19:50.04 | ToastTheif | ?* |
| 19:51.11 | Cairenn | nope |
| 19:51.14 | ToastTheif | pooooooke |
| 19:51.25 | ToastTheif | hey Cair, you know much about Visor? |
| 19:51.29 | Cairenn | nope |
| 19:51.54 | ToastTheif | hmm |
| 19:52.01 | ToastTheif | Industrial |
| 19:52.03 | Cairenn | ##ace |
| 19:52.04 | ToastTheif | poke poke! |
| 19:52.30 | ToastTheif | too late |
| 19:54.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qwxyr (i=qw@201.80-202-198.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:55.15 | Tain | Too late, Luthor! Too late. |
| 19:58.03 | Natasem | hey Iriel didn't they allow you to cast 2 "spells" at once put into the game |
| 20:02.23 | Natasem | via /script SpellStopCasting(); |
| 20:02.32 | Iriel | Natasem : Only if the first spell has no global cooldown |
| 20:02.43 | Natasem | somone needs to edit this page then lol |
| 20:02.45 | Natasem | http://www.wowwiki.com/FAQ#How_do_I_cast_2_.28or_more.29_spells_in_a_macro.3F |
| 20:04.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SP|Sorren (i=astrayca@moobilenet1-108.ucdavis.edu) |
| 20:05.48 | Iriel | Natasem : Done. |
| 20:05.56 | Natasem | :) |
| 20:09.18 | Tain | Did some of the wowwiki pages get removed? There's some that I thought used to be there that are now blank. |
| 20:10.10 | Iriel | Tain Which ones? |
| 20:10.20 | Iriel | It's possible they got moved, or hit with the spam bot |
| 20:10.32 | Iriel | Though generally there's a history if they're blanked |
| 20:12.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 20:13.07 | AnduinLothar | anyone have any item id's for the new cenarian circle items? |
| 20:13.20 | Tain | Well I just looked at the SetText() function for example and there's nothing there. Now I know it's entirely possible it's always been that way, there just seems like a lot of things I've tried to look up recently that haven't had anything. |
| 20:13.38 | Tain | Or GetFrameStrata |
| 20:13.56 | Tain | SetFrameStrata. STuff like that I thought I've looked up in the past. |
| 20:14.10 | pagefault | anyone know what port WoW uses? |
| 20:14.25 | Tain | But I might not have. It might just be that I'm looking up more and different things than I used to. |
| 20:14.46 | Iriel | the widget api pages have been fairly underdeveloped, in comparison |
| 20:15.02 | Beladona | maybe they got alphabetized again |
| 20:15.06 | Iriel | it's a bit confusing because the idiot spammers created blank pages all over the place |
| 20:15.07 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 20:15.36 | Maldivia | pagefault: I'm connected to 3724 right now |
| 20:16.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pfault (i=pagefaul@HSE-Montreal-ppp135258.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 20:17.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pfault_ (i=pagefaul@HSE-Montreal-ppp135258.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 20:22.02 | Iriel | and now, I have to go and try and digest a 3 year technical and business debate into 3 pages of pictures so someone can explain it to our CEO. I'll be idle for a bit. |
| 20:29.02 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 20:38.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust242.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:46.17 | Tem | Ok WTF |
| 20:46.21 | Tem | and wrong channel |
| 20:46.25 | Tem | but WTF still |
| 20:46.35 | Tem | warlocks get 59 +damage and mages only get 40? |
| 20:47.30 | Tem | I think the CC rewards page is a big joke |
| 20:47.37 | Tem | they can't be serious |
| 20:48.23 | Tem | In a few days it's going to be replaced with a "Gotcha!" page |
| 20:48.33 | Shouryuu | well the one handed mace exhalted reward for priest, just, is badass |
| 20:48.39 | Tem | agreed |
| 20:48.49 | AnduinLothar | pally 1h is uber too |
| 20:48.53 | Tem | the pally rewards are shitty (and I'm being nice) |
| 20:49.01 | Tem | AnduinLothar: have you seen it recently? |
| 20:49.07 | Tem | It has no plus healing on it |
| 20:49.10 | Tem | -none- |
| 20:49.19 | AnduinLothar | lol. the weapon, right |
| 20:49.41 | Shouryuu | warriors axe is nice |
| 20:49.53 | AnduinLothar | warriors axe is 10 dps less that nthe pally one |
| 20:50.05 | Tem | AnduinLothar: you must never raid |
| 20:50.11 | Tem | if you care about dps on your weapon |
| 20:50.20 | AnduinLothar | lol. you must not play a pally |
| 20:50.22 | Shouryuu | hunter looks bad |
| 20:51.03 | Tem | AnduinLothar: have you /ever/ been on a raid? |
| 20:51.08 | Tem | you don't hit stuff |
| 20:51.10 | Tem | you cleanse and heal |
| 20:51.15 | AnduinLothar | pally is entirely item dependant. I can get crap with +heal and be a better healer than a priest. mana/sec is much more useful melee |
| 20:51.29 | Shouryuu | and Tem you get 10 more int with the mage weap than the warlock's |
| 20:51.41 | Tem | whoopty-freaken-do |
| 20:51.44 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:51.52 | Shouryuu | man I've fallen in love with the priest mace |
| 20:51.54 | AnduinLothar | right. they're trying to make pallies more viable tanking |
| 20:51.55 | Iriel | I dunno, the hunter stuff doesn't look too bad |
| 20:52.02 | Iriel | Lots of agility |
| 20:52.13 | *** part/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 20:52.21 | Tem | AnduinLothar: if you want to tank, roll a Warrior |
| 20:52.26 | Shouryuu | yeah but compare it to the priest mace... |
| 20:52.29 | Iriel | I'll never have any of it tho 8-) |
| 20:52.30 | Tem | Warlocks: if you want to dps, roll a mage |
| 20:52.30 | AnduinLothar | you're missing th epoint of the pally |
| 20:52.40 | AnduinLothar | the point of the pally is flexability |
| 20:52.41 | Shouryuu | yeah they're trying to change it's roll |
| 20:52.56 | Shouryuu | he wasn't supposed to stay at the back line and heal/cleanse... |
| 20:53.00 | Iriel | Yeah, but hunters can dual wield |
| 20:53.05 | Iriel | and the hunter axe is one handed |
| 20:53.05 | Shouryuu | true |
| 20:53.12 | AnduinLothar | i have 3 armor sets, each one makes me useful at something different |
| 20:53.15 | Iriel | Not even MAIN hand |
| 20:53.57 | Shouryuu | but is the 3 mana every 5 sec really that good? |
| 20:54.18 | AnduinLothar | i can heal/clease, but that's boring... still mroe efficient than a priest. I can out agro/dps warriors now with my pvp armor on in 1.9 and i can solo templars in sithilis with my solo gear on |
| 20:54.38 | AnduinLothar | 90% blue |
| 20:54.41 | Shouryuu | you can heal cleanse better than a priest? |
| 20:54.45 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 20:54.53 | Cide | cleanse yes... heal no |
| 20:54.57 | Tem | AnduinLothar: I call shenanigans |
| 20:54.58 | AnduinLothar | flash is 2x as efficient |
| 20:55.05 | Cide | efficiency means crap though |
| 20:55.09 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 20:55.11 | AnduinLothar | slap on mana/sec and i never run out of mana |
| 20:55.13 | Cide | I can flash heal for as long as any boss requires me to |
| 20:55.27 | Cide | what means anything is that the tank stays alive |
| 20:55.27 | AnduinLothar | anyway. food time |
| 20:55.40 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 20:57.09 | Shouryuu | hey does anyone here know sudoku |
| 20:57.11 | Maldivia | yes |
| 20:57.13 | Iriel | Yes |
| 20:57.13 | Osagasu | Any news on that wardrobe update, Anduin? 8) |
| 20:57.25 | Iriel | which reminds me to start my counter again |
| 20:57.44 | Tain | Yeah Sudoku! He lives down the street from me. |
| 20:57.51 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 20:58.10 | Iriel | I'm trying to count possible grids |
| 20:58.48 | Maldivia | mathematically or "brute-force"? |
| 20:58.58 | Iriel | little from column a, little from column b |
| 20:59.02 | Tem | grids? |
| 20:59.14 | Iriel | the math becomes exponentially tricky as you get further down the box |
| 20:59.36 | Maldivia | that's what programs like Mathematica etc are good for :) |
| 20:59.37 | Iriel | Tem: Valid sets of 9 x 9 numbers that adhere to the soduku rules |
| 21:00.47 | Iriel | I'm not sure even mathemetica could save me, I started out down the path of believing it would be relatively easy, and the interactions of dependencies in 3 directions just got out of hand |
| 21:01.19 | Iriel | So i took a normalized brute force approach, to do the bits that I couldn't figure the math out for, and use the math to get back to the full number when it's done |
| 21:01.31 | Iriel | Obviously it takes a while tho |
| 21:01.56 | Iriel | i'm up to 286 Billion (US Billion) so far, normalized, but that's only a small way in. |
| 21:02.59 | Shouryuu | iriel the number of possible grids is 81!/(9!)^9 |
| 21:03.29 | Iriel | Shouryuu : Are you sure? |
| 21:03.37 | Shouryuu | well |
| 21:03.43 | Iriel | Shouryuu : Given the dependencies between rows/columns/grids |
| 21:03.50 | Shouryuu | no |
| 21:04.05 | Shouryuu | actually |
| 21:04.59 | Shouryuu | that's the number of ways to put 81 numbers, on 9 grids of 9 numbers |
| 21:05.03 | Maldivia | the answer is around 6.6 * 10^21 |
| 21:05.15 | Shouryuu | yeah that's wiki |
| 21:05.32 | Maldivia | although, that's not the unique number :| |
| 21:05.58 | Iriel | Maldivia : The answer to which question? Mine, or 'number of 3x3x3x3 grids'? |
| 21:06.02 | Shouryuu | yours |
| 21:06.05 | Shouryuu | http://www.shef.ac.uk/~pm1afj/sudoku/ |
| 21:06.35 | Shouryuu | I was thinking of making a sudoku add-on for WoW |
| 21:06.47 | Shouryuu | for when you're waiting for the zep, travelling or just bored |
| 21:07.05 | Shouryuu | but it quickly came to my mind that making a sodoku generating program was: |
| 21:07.19 | Shouryuu | 1: too complicated matheatically |
| 21:07.41 | Shouryuu | 2: too complicated for my very shy knowledge of lua and most languages |
| 21:08.04 | Iriel | Aha, they've figured out a better equivalence rule than I have. |
| 21:09.11 | Tain | Well, Ubunto gave me the finger for the last time, just booted Debian. |
| 21:09.18 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:09.21 | Iriel | yay debian |
| 21:10.05 | Beladona | hehe |
| 21:10.14 | Shouryuu | oh and one question |
| 21:10.14 | Beladona | when all else fails, make your own |
| 21:10.31 | Maldivia | hmm, if you have a finished sudoko, and you swap all 1s and 9s - is it a new sudoko then ? |
| 21:10.59 | Cide | should be |
| 21:11.04 | Shouryuu | for sudokus, if you have every number from one to nine in each collumn and line can there not be every number from one to nine in each independant square? |
| 21:11.08 | Iriel | Maldivia : yes |
| 21:11.22 | Maldivia | Why - the configuration of the numbers is exactly the same |
| 21:11.32 | Tem | Oh is Soduku that game with the grids where you have to have every number" |
| 21:11.39 | Maldivia | tem, yeah |
| 21:11.40 | Iriel | Maldivia : thus the whole equivalence thing, there's a number of exchanges you can do between equivalent puzzles. |
| 21:11.42 | Tem | and none can repeat in a column or row |
| 21:11.47 | Tem | ah ok I see now |
| 21:11.48 | Shouryuu | tem yeah |
| 21:11.51 | Iriel | Column, Row, or Box |
| 21:12.56 | Shouryuu | but if you have column and row, can you not have box? |
| 21:13.20 | Iriel | if the 'grid' is made up of 3x3 boxes of 3x3 numbers |
| 21:13.37 | Iriel | then for any number, it must be the only occurence of its value in its row, column, and box |
| 21:13.42 | Maldivia | Iriel: I still dont see, why the two solutions differs, except that I've put in another value for some of the variables |
| 21:14.18 | Iriel | Maldivia : The solutions dont differ, they are equivalent by exchanging numbers, but they'd be distinct 'puzzles'. |
| 21:14.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@moobilenet6-66.ucdavis.edu) |
| 21:14.57 | Iriel | similarly you can swap any row or column of boxes with any other. Or swap and row or column within a box row or box column. |
| 21:15.00 | Maldivia | Iriel: yeah, ok - but wouldn't it be more interesting to find the number of non-equivalent puzzles |
| 21:15.18 | Iriel | That's sort of my approach |
| 21:15.34 | Iriel | find the puzzle count where the first box is always 1-9 in order |
| 21:15.47 | Iriel | (Plus some normalization rules around columns and rows) |
| 21:16.21 | Iriel | Now, once you know how many grids are, there's then the question of what "puzzles" you can make from that grid, and how hard they are |
| 21:16.25 | Maldivia | but ofcourse, if you find all possible puzzles, it should be easy to remove all the equivalent puzzles, since there's a fixed number of way to "rearrange" it |
| 21:16.28 | Iriel | THAT's something for further consideration. |
| 21:16.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Red`Gone (n=L@cpe-72-225-173-204.si.res.rr.com) |
| 21:18.45 | Shouryuu | Well I agree with maldivia |
| 21:19.08 | Shouryuu | if you have all possible puzzles including the equivalent ones, it shouldn't be too hard to take them out |
| 21:19.35 | Iriel | The folks who did the site you liked have found more equivalences than my list |
| 21:19.40 | Maldivia | well, not the trivial-equialities anyway |
| 21:19.43 | Iriel | s/liked/linked/ |
| 21:19.59 | Iriel | which I suspected were out there, i just could't figure out how to express them cleanly |
| 21:21.21 | Maldivia | hmm, what about a puzzle, where you have a 2x2 corner empty, and you can fit the last 4 numbers i 4 ways... are the 4 solutions equivalent ? |
| 21:22.18 | Maldivia | hmm, ok... perhaps not the best example - don't know if that's even possible :) |
| 21:22.38 | Iriel | They wouldn't be equivalent, and it's my understanding that a proper PUZZLE is never ambiguous |
| 21:22.48 | Iriel | And there is a difference between grids and puzzles |
| 21:22.59 | Maldivia | yeah, ok |
| 21:23.20 | Maldivia | for my example to be true, you have to have more than one corner left |
| 21:23.41 | Iriel | I assume every puzzle has 8 values given? |
| 21:24.04 | Maldivia | or more |
| 21:24.24 | Iriel | true, but I wondered if they're all 8 |
| 21:24.28 | Iriel | or if there ARE Any with more |
| 21:24.52 | Iriel | I've actually only looked at maybe 5 actual puzzles |
| 21:25.03 | Iriel | Counting them was far more interesting |
| 21:25.40 | Maldivia | most puzzles start with a lot more than 8 values given |
| 21:26.26 | Corrodias | heh.. the point of a paladin... is to wish he rolled a druid! |
| 21:26.49 | Shouryuu | now second question, how do they measure difficulty? |
| 21:27.07 | Shouryuu | the number of numvers they give is around 30ish |
| 21:27.10 | Shouryuu | each time |
| 21:27.25 | Shouryuu | an average of maybe 3-4 per box |
| 21:28.33 | Maldivia | depends on the difficulty level they give the puzzle |
| 21:28.33 | Shouryuu | no not at all |
| 21:28.40 | Shouryuu | some impossible sudokos have more numbers than easy ones... |
| 21:28.48 | Maldivia | yeah, ok |
| 21:29.05 | id` | puzzles, blegh |
| 21:29.08 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:29.19 | Maldivia | but often, the puzzles labeled easy start with more values than the ones labeled hard |
| 21:29.38 | Iriel | Yeah, measuring difficulty is interesting too |
| 21:29.55 | Iriel | I'm imagining that's derived from the number and types of inferences required to solve the puzzle |
| 21:30.20 | Shouryuu | I was thinking aronud the lines of probabilities |
| 21:30.34 | Maldivia | also, if there are "dead-ends" or not... |
| 21:30.50 | Maldivia | where you have to guess to get any further |
| 21:31.05 | Iriel | that's what I mean by 'types of inferences' |
| 21:31.05 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 21:31.12 | Maldivia | Ok |
| 21:31.16 | Iriel | some are obvious 'I have 8 of the values for this element' |
| 21:31.22 | Iriel | some require more deductive reasoning |
| 21:31.50 | Iriel | Speaking of puzzles |
| 21:31.51 | Iriel | http://www.drunkmenworkhere.org/170 |
| 21:31.55 | Iriel | That one's excellent |
| 21:31.58 | Shouryuu | "Computer solvers can estimate the difficulty for a human to find the solution, based on the complexity of the solving techniques required. This estimation allows publishers to tailor their Sudoku puzzles to audiences of varied solving experience. Some online versions offer several difficulty levels" |
| 21:32.42 | Shouryuu | Iriel - lol |
| 21:33.14 | Iriel | It's tricky too, took me a few tries before I eliminated my silly errors |
| 21:33.40 | Shouryuu | "fresh zero-content for compulsive clickers" |
| 21:38.49 | Cairenn | what'd you do THIS time, Iriel? |
| 21:40.35 | Shouryuu | lol Iriel that site is awsome |
| 21:41.15 | Beladona | my god |
| 21:41.20 | Beladona | just saw that aptitude test |
| 21:41.24 | Beladona | afraid to answer anything |
| 21:41.27 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 21:41.47 | Iriel | I printed it out, and then made notes as I worked it out |
| 21:41.58 | Iriel | Cairenn : You mean the broken wow forums? |
| 21:42.01 | Beladona | well |
| 21:42.02 | Cairenn | yup |
| 21:42.09 | Beladona | you can sort of start at 20 and go backwards |
| 21:42.22 | Iriel | 20 is key |
| 21:42.33 | Beladona | lol |
| 21:42.48 | Iriel | there are actually several solutions (4) depending on your choice of answer for 20 |
| 21:43.00 | Iriel | Though there's a single 'intended' answer |
| 21:43.01 | Beladona | I chose E |
| 21:43.15 | Shouryuu | same |
| 21:43.29 | Beladona | holy |
| 21:43.41 | Iriel | E gives you a single solution |
| 21:43.44 | Beladona | I love the 17 <-> 6 pair |
| 21:43.53 | Shouryuu | arrghh i keep losing my answers |
| 21:44.03 | Beladona | actually a few of them |
| 21:44.29 | Codayus | Hmm, q 13 is amusing. |
| 21:44.48 | Codayus | Cool puzzle. |
| 21:45.12 | Shouryuu | lol the 17-6 took me a while =P |
| 21:45.22 | Beladona | skip it |
| 21:45.35 | Iriel | 14 was fun |
| 21:49.25 | Codayus | Hmmm. |
| 21:50.54 | Beladona | its wacky that they mark them as wrong until you satisfy the requirement |
| 21:51.16 | Codayus | Helps see your errors. <shrug> |
| 21:51.25 | Codayus | Speaking of which, I apparently don't understand question 2. |
| 21:51.27 | Beladona | actually it helps you plan ahead |
| 21:51.31 | Beladona | not so much see errors |
| 21:51.36 | Codayus | Well... |
| 21:51.36 | Codayus | Yeah. |
| 21:51.45 | Codayus | That's kind of what I meant. |
| 21:52.12 | Beladona | 5 is hilarious |
| 21:52.43 | AnduinLothar | link? |
| 21:52.49 | Beladona | http://www.drunkmenworkhere.org/170 |
| 21:52.56 | Iriel | http://www.drunkmenworkhere.org/170 |
| 21:53.17 | Iriel | Beladona : 19 is pretty amusing too |
| 21:53.21 | AnduinLothar | looks like suduko, ya |
| 21:53.29 | Beladona | HAHA |
| 21:55.11 | Legorol | hm, i don't think E is correct as an answer to 20 |
| 21:55.18 | Beladona | why? |
| 21:55.27 | Legorol | because you can't determine longitude with a barometer |
| 21:55.37 | Beladona | you can't determine any of them |
| 21:55.47 | Legorol | you can determine the rest with a barometer and some math |
| 21:55.56 | Legorol | and some tables |
| 21:56.10 | Beladona | think about the correlation |
| 21:56.33 | AnduinLothar | barometer is air pressure |
| 21:56.34 | Legorol | ? |
| 21:56.37 | Maldivia | Legorol: well, the question is, can you determing intelligence from a standarize test ? :) |
| 21:56.40 | Legorol | yes barometer measures air pressure |
| 21:56.49 | Legorol | from which you can determine all but longitude |
| 21:57.07 | AnduinLothar | only if you know your altitude and th etemp |
| 21:57.15 | Beladona | that like saying, you can't kill someone with a scateboard, but you can with a scateboard and an uzi |
| 21:57.25 | Legorol | no no |
| 21:57.36 | Legorol | it's like saying you can't kill someone with a skateboard, but a trained killer can |
| 21:57.57 | Beladona | well anyway, answer how you like |
| 21:58.11 | AnduinLothar | i can kill someone with a skateboard and im not a trained killer |
| 21:58.39 | Beladona | you get my point |
| 21:58.39 | AnduinLothar | i can even kill myself with a skateboard. or kill a trained killer with a skateboard |
| 21:58.51 | Codayus | You can't determine any of those with just a barometer... All you can measure is the air pressure, which isn't enough. |
| 21:59.09 | AnduinLothar | right. u have to know outside info as well |
| 21:59.47 | AnduinLothar | need to be able to uncheck |
| 21:59.49 | Beladona | I think the point is, Standardized tests can measure intelligence, as a barometer can measure _____ |
| 22:00.12 | Codayus | The real weakness to q20 is that you could argue that all it takes to measure intelligence is a standardized test. I disagree, but if you accept the assertion, the only valid answer would be pressure. :-) |
| 22:00.48 | Maldivia | you can't measure intelligence with a standardized test |
| 22:00.59 | Ktron | this is a nasty test |
| 22:01.01 | Ktron | it rocks |
| 22:01.26 | Codayus | This is clearly some sort of fiendesh plot to lower productivity. |
| 22:01.31 | Codayus | It's working for me, anyhow. |
| 22:02.20 | Beladona | woot, solved |
| 22:02.33 | Ktron | Without trying to offend, is it hard to lower your productivity Codayus ? |
| 22:02.34 | Legorol | working for me too, i am doing it instead of grinding Light Leather for the war effort |
| 22:02.41 | Codayus | Ktron: Not at all! |
| 22:02.43 | Beladona | well, its after hours, so my productivity was done anyway |
| 22:03.21 | Codayus | Ktron: You'd be amazed at how little it takes to lower my productivity. Well, actually, okay, you probably wouldn't be... |
| 22:03.30 | Iriel | Legorol : Prey tell how you can measure Latitude with a baromenter |
| 22:03.53 | Beladona | this channel lowers my productivity sometimes |
| 22:03.58 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.03 | Iriel | this channel lowers my productivity always |
| 22:04.07 | AnduinLothar | if you know altitude and temp and have an altitude map |
| 22:04.11 | Beladona | I was being generous |
| 22:04.12 | Beladona | =P |
| 22:04.43 | AnduinLothar | or a weather simulator |
| 22:04.45 | Cairenn | wouldn't want to be responsible for lowering productivity |
| 22:04.52 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : That's like saying a standardized test in conjunction with other things, the point is that on its own the barometer doesn't measure it |
| 22:04.55 | Legorol | Iriel, i may have mixed up latitude and longitude, i never remember which one's which :D |
| 22:05.18 | Iriel | Legorol : You had the right one, but I dont think your statement stands without a lot of OTHER measurement devices |
| 22:05.37 | Iriel | And even then you still can't figure out which hemisphere you're in |
| 22:05.37 | Legorol | probably right |
| 22:05.50 | Legorol | you can, from how jet-lagged you feel at night :D |
| 22:05.54 | Iriel | You'll be glad to know there are solutions for (A) and (B) as well. |
| 22:06.05 | Iriel | though (A) doesn't have a unique solution, it has 2 |
| 22:07.09 | Codayus | q2 must not mean what I think it means. Or the red highlighting doesn't mean what I think it means. Or maybe I'm confused. |
| 22:07.33 | AnduinLothar | it means it's not true.. yet |
| 22:08.26 | Codayus | Well, I select A for q2 - which is "6 and 7". I then select D for both 6 and 7. Shouldn't 2 be correct? |
| 22:09.05 | Ktron | are there any other consectutive answers that are the same before 6 and 7? |
| 22:09.08 | Iriel | But there's an "only" in there |
| 22:09.12 | Iriel | So it may be waiting |
| 22:09.14 | AnduinLothar | only if those answers for 6 and 7 are correct |
| 22:09.18 | Codayus | Ah, "only". |
| 22:09.26 | Codayus | And yes, 6 and 7 are correct. |
| 22:09.28 | Iriel | I can assure you that the page does know the right answer |
| 22:09.45 | Codayus | But I missed the "only" clause. q2 did not mean what I thought it meant. :-P |
| 22:10.34 | Beladona | I already closed mine |
| 22:10.39 | Beladona | or else I would look back |
| 22:10.47 | Beladona | maybe I shoulda printed it or something |
| 22:11.02 | Ktron | or put ABCDEDEDBACED in a file anyway |
| 22:11.05 | Ktron | deac0n |
| 22:11.10 | Ktron | er |
| 22:11.22 | Ktron | s/deac0n/deacon |
| 22:11.23 | Beladona | what are you sequencing dna? |
| 22:11.46 | Ktron | ABCDEDEDBACED <--- that's part of you Beladone |
| 22:12.09 | Beladona | lol, a very small part |
| 22:12.20 | Ktron | I call it the 'life gene' |
| 22:12.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Deph|AFK (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 22:12.44 | Ktron | If I put a special chemical that breaks every bond between A and B or A and C, you'll die! |
| 22:13.14 | Iriel | The solution spells a sentence anyway 8-) |
| 22:13.23 | Beladona | oh |
| 22:13.27 | Beladona | darnit I didn't look at that |
| 22:15.05 | Beladona | lol, my svn tree looks funny |
| 22:15.08 | Cairenn | ooookay |
| 22:15.37 | Cairenn | sorry Ktron, we've got a ban on mad scientists today ... |
| 22:15.42 | Beladona | I have a live folder, and a test folder, and in each is trunk, and release -- trunk release! |
| 22:15.51 | Beladona | sorry, guess you had to be there |
| 22:19.59 | id` | RAH IM VERY MAD >:( |
| 22:20.05 | id` | when i log in at wow-europe.com |
| 22:20.12 | id` | and i get to picka char to talk with ont he forums |
| 22:20.18 | id` | there are about 30 to choose from |
| 22:20.22 | id` | that's right, 30 characters |
| 22:20.26 | id` | when i log into the game |
| 22:20.29 | id` | i get to pick 5 |
| 22:20.34 | id` | :LKJEFLVM:KJPLKOSJRHC:LISJHLDG:JHDGLS |
| 22:20.47 | id` | gimme my fucking chars back one g*ddamn time fuckers |
| 22:21.05 | id` | i play with it until lvl 15 then go play with another a bit |
| 22:21.08 | id` | AND ITS GONE |
| 22:21.10 | id` | ;asldkfjsl;adkfshsfdjklb |
| 22:21.26 | id` | all my items my everything |
| 22:22.13 | Legorol | id`, what? |
| 22:22.16 | Legorol | you lost characters? |
| 22:22.23 | Legorol | that shouldn't be the case.. |
| 22:22.25 | id` | about 26 |
| 22:22.28 | Legorol | have you tried looking on other servers? |
| 22:22.32 | id` | ha ah funny |
| 22:22.34 | id` | ofcource |
| 22:22.38 | Legorol | as in, did you create them on different ones? |
| 22:22.40 | Legorol | they shouldn't be gone.. |
| 22:22.47 | id` | the realm list listc characters on each server |
| 22:22.54 | Legorol | no |
| 22:22.55 | Legorol | it's bugged |
| 22:23.00 | id` | o_O |
| 22:23.02 | Legorol | the numbers on the realm list are inaccurate |
| 22:23.07 | Ktron | yep, |
| 22:23.09 | Legorol | it will often not show characters on a server you have chars on |
| 22:23.11 | id` | how gay |
| 22:23.17 | id` | that made me reroll over 20 times |
| 22:23.17 | Codayus | Hmm? Right. The realm list lists chars on servers you've recently played. |
| 22:23.26 | Legorol | sort of |
| 22:23.27 | Iriel | I've never seen it show characters on servers that you DONT have characters on. |
| 22:23.34 | Legorol | Iriel, that's correct |
| 22:23.36 | Codayus | Sort of. Yes. |
| 22:23.44 | id` | cries, even |
| 22:23.46 | Iriel | But if you cancel logging into a realm (due to queue, or whatever) it 'forgets' you had chars there |
| 22:23.48 | Legorol | id`, did you find your chars? |
| 22:23.54 | Legorol | Iriel, right |
| 22:23.57 | id` | play this game for 4 months and i have only lvl 10-20 chars |
| 22:24.01 | id` | guess why |
| 22:24.03 | id` | T_T |
| 22:24.03 | Legorol | it sometimes forgets even if you did log in successfully |
| 22:24.17 | Legorol | id`, i don't get you |
| 22:24.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@81-174-41-172.f5.ngi.it) |
| 22:24.29 | id` | i thought they were all gone |
| 22:24.32 | Legorol | so are your chars there or not? |
| 22:24.36 | Legorol | d'oh! |
| 22:24.39 | id` | checking |
| 22:24.47 | id` | so i rerolled and rerolled |
| 22:24.51 | id` | and rerolled |
| 22:24.57 | Legorol | and you didn't think of complaining until now? |
| 22:25.05 | Legorol | you thought that characters just "disappearing" is normal? :D |
| 22:25.10 | Legorol | ok ok i will stop teasing |
| 22:25.11 | Legorol | sorry |
| 22:25.14 | Kirkburn | Hello, I'm new here and rather in need of help! Anyone heard of ClearFont? |
| 22:25.15 | Legorol | it's not that funny |
| 22:25.26 | Legorol | hi Kirkburn |
| 22:25.28 | Cairenn | hi Kirkburn, yeah, know of it |
| 22:25.31 | Kirkburn | hello |
| 22:25.37 | id` | :'( |
| 22:25.40 | Ktron | Kickburn, yes, though not sure if we can help or not, I don't think the author is here |
| 22:25.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 22:25.46 | Ktron | or is ever on this channel |
| 22:25.48 | Kirkburn | I'm the author, silly |
| 22:25.53 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 22:25.54 | id` | as of now im writing down all servers and characters |
| 22:25.59 | Ktron | heh, weeee |
| 22:25.59 | id` | :( |
| 22:26.12 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 22:26.14 | Legorol | id`, so they are there? |
| 22:26.17 | Kirkburn | However, I need to update it for 1.10 but I have no clue how to code LUA |
| 22:26.20 | id` | yes Legorol |
| 22:26.25 | Legorol | well, at least that's good news |
| 22:26.28 | id` | you can start laughing now |
| 22:26.31 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 22:26.31 | id` | :| |
| 22:26.35 | Legorol | never mind |
| 22:26.50 | id` | :'( |
| 22:26.54 | clad|Sleep | Evening. |
| 22:27.05 | Legorol | hi cladhaire, you missed some comedy.. ehm.. tragedy |
| 22:27.12 | id` | read up |
| 22:27.13 | id` | :| |
| 22:27.13 | Cairenn | hey cladhaire |
| 22:27.36 | Legorol | btw id`, it's the kind of thing i'd do |
| 22:27.38 | Legorol | so i feel your pain |
| 22:27.46 | id` | oic |
| 22:28.00 | Legorol | well i do expect things to work |
| 22:28.06 | id` | me too |
| 22:28.07 | Legorol | so if the server doesn't say i have a char, i beleive it :D |
| 22:28.10 | Kirkburn | Does anyone here know any lua, and can help me with a template for ClearFont and how to use the font object thingys |
| 22:28.24 | Legorol | Kirkburn, noone here knows Lua |
| 22:28.30 | Legorol | sorry wrong channel.. we just pretend we do :D |
| 22:28.32 | Beladona | cladhaire will appreciate this: http://www.drunkmenworkhere.org/170 |
| 22:28.32 | Kirkburn | I have a beta ready to go, it's er, just a blank .lua file atm :) |
| 22:28.46 | Ktron | hm... |
| 22:28.51 | Cairenn | ~lart Legorol |
| 22:28.56 | Legorol | tehee |
| 22:29.01 | Kirkburn | Surrounded by lots of other pretty files, tho |
| 22:29.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobster (n=wob@221.221.31.30) |
| 22:29.08 | Legorol | sorry mum! |
| 22:29.15 | Ktron | Kirkburn, I'm a poor person to get help from, but there are people who should be able to help you who are on this channel often enough |
| 22:29.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:29.27 | ToastTheif | Iriel! |
| 22:29.34 | Kirkburn | i.e. Iriel, yes :p |
| 22:29.44 | id` | http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/ |
| 22:29.45 | Legorol | do you have a link to ClearFont? |
| 22:29.47 | ToastTheif | Kirkburn = Iriel? |
| 22:29.47 | id` | zomg the colors! |
| 22:29.54 | id` | what do u guys think? |
| 22:29.56 | id` | ToastTheif, no |
| 22:30.03 | Wobster | Calming and green? |
| 22:30.03 | Kirkburn | If I was Iriel, er, then I wouldn;t have a problem! |
| 22:30.08 | id` | \o/ |
| 22:30.20 | Kirkburn | ClearFont: http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=1424 |
| 22:30.27 | ToastTheif | So anyway guys |
| 22:30.30 | Wobster | I quite like the layout, id |
| 22:30.33 | ToastTheif | my chat channels are messed up |
| 22:30.42 | Kirkburn | And your name is spelt wrong |
| 22:30.45 | ToastTheif | I deleted my WTF, WDB, Interface folders |
| 22:30.48 | Wobster | although it kinda ends too abruptly down the bottom? a bit of whitespace? |
| 22:30.48 | ToastTheif | no, it's not |
| 22:30.59 | ToastTheif | I am a theif, not a thief |
| 22:31.11 | Wobster | He's a rouge =) |
| 22:31.11 | Legorol | id`, a bit... narrow |
| 22:31.11 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 22:31.24 | ToastTheif | so now that I've deleted all my folders |
| 22:31.35 | ToastTheif | why aren't my chat channels working?! |
| 22:31.36 | id` | o_O |
| 22:31.51 | id` | go check the config files? |
| 22:31.59 | ToastTheif | what config files? |
| 22:31.59 | id` | i have a similar problem |
| 22:31.59 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4283 |
| 22:32.04 | id` | i cant seem to zoom out on the map |
| 22:32.05 | id` | :P |
| 22:32.10 | Kirkburn | Oh yeah, that's where to find it |
| 22:32.13 | Legorol | id`, your site doesn't react to text resizing |
| 22:32.20 | Legorol | as such, it doesn't pass my "accessibility" test |
| 22:32.35 | Legorol | but nice colours |
| 22:32.39 | id` | http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=012020062332273ns.png |
| 22:32.41 | id` | yes it does |
| 22:32.44 | id` | :-) |
| 22:32.46 | Legorol | then IE is crap |
| 22:32.50 | Legorol | oh wait, we knew that |
| 22:32.54 | Wobster | Works for me |
| 22:33.09 | Wobster | (granted, in FF) |
| 22:33.20 | Legorol | hmm |
| 22:33.39 | Kirkburn | Oh, good at least I did put the latest version on WoWI :) Devla is also working on a 1.10 font thing but I don't know if he's made any progress |
| 22:34.22 | Kirkburn | Just to check, the US forums are down atm, aren't they? |
| 22:34.27 | Cairenn | yes |
| 22:34.28 | Wobster | id, Is it all done with CSS? =) |
| 22:34.51 | Cairenn | Iriel pissed Slouken off again, so the forums are down (long standing joke) |
| 22:35.24 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 22:35.27 | id` | yes |
| 22:35.32 | id` | its one html file |
| 22:35.35 | id` | check the source |
| 22:35.40 | id` | im so lazy i put it in one file |
| 22:35.44 | AnduinLothar | it's really hard converting wardrobe to item ids and auto converting the old format |
| 22:35.47 | id` | so i only have to upload that |
| 22:35.51 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 22:35.56 | Iriel | The forums are back actually |
| 22:36.30 | Wobster | id: nice =) |
| 22:36.56 | Kirkburn | They are? |
| 22:36.57 | Cairenn | omg, here we go again |
| 22:37.02 | Cairenn | Kirkburn: yeah |
| 22:37.07 | Iriel | Well, the one I care about is |
| 22:37.10 | Cairenn | "is X legal" |
| 22:37.22 | Kirkburn | Erm, Iriel, any chance u can help me wiht some lua? |
| 22:37.25 | AnduinLothar | baweeted |
| 22:37.47 | Iriel | I can try, and if not there's a bazillion other folks here who can too |
| 22:37.59 | Kirkburn | I'm the ClearFont dev, and needsie helpsie getting it ready for 1.10 :) |
| 22:38.03 | AnduinLothar | woot, bazillion |
| 22:38.23 | Kirkburn | I tried they others, they all failed (well, I've only been here for 5 mins, it's true) |
| 22:38.32 | AnduinLothar | failure |
| 22:38.55 | AnduinLothar | 5min <= irc experience |
| 22:38.56 | Cairenn | btw Kirkburn, welcome to the channel, you're more than welcome to hang out in here, you'll pick up lots just listening to them when they get going on stuff |
| 22:39.07 | Kirkburn | I'm basically just needing some kind of template to work from. I've never coded lua before and I don't want my pet project to die :) |
| 22:39.32 | Kirkburn | Thanks Cairenn! |
| 22:39.39 | Iriel | Well, the tricky part with 1.10 is that we dont have any code yet, I'd imagine you do nasty things like replace FrameXML\Fonts.xml now? |
| 22:39.59 | Kirkburn | Well, that's what I've been doing so far (and very successfully) |
| 22:40.07 | AnduinLothar | nasty |
| 22:40.12 | Iriel | Well, in 1.10, you'll move all your code to your own addon |
| 22:40.17 | Iriel | and you should be able to do stuff like |
| 22:40.26 | Iriel | GameFontNormal:SetFont("Path\\To\\Your\\Font") |
| 22:40.30 | Iriel | And it'll just "work" |
| 22:40.47 | AnduinLothar | that for the font type or the fontstring? |
| 22:40.49 | Kirkburn | I like your last sentence |
| 22:41.00 | Iriel | Those all become Font objects |
| 22:41.05 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 22:41.07 | Iriel | the current 'virtual fonts' |
| 22:41.40 | AnduinLothar | but if you change a fotn object it only effects fontstrings that inherit it after modification, correct>? |
| 22:41.47 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : no. |
| 22:41.54 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : It affects all |
| 22:42.05 | Kirkburn | I'm not planning on putting any kind of gui in, so it'd be just something that changed the individual font objects to other fonts (and changing the styles) |
| 22:42.09 | AnduinLothar | guess it works diff than normal frame inheritence |
| 22:42.12 | Iriel | Yes |
| 22:42.14 | Iriel | it does |
| 22:42.18 | Iriel | it's at runtime |
| 22:42.23 | AnduinLothar | yummy |
| 22:42.24 | Iriel | well, runtime propagation |
| 22:42.32 | Cairenn | so, clad, gonna hide over here now? |
| 22:42.49 | Iriel | we're not entirely sure what the complexity of the propagation model is, but slouken seemed ot indicate it would work sanely |
| 22:43.06 | AnduinLothar | should do that with frames |
| 22:43.06 | Cairenn | since I notice that your favoritest person is in ace |
| 22:43.10 | Kirkburn | Would CF then override fonts that specify fonts in their xml? |
| 22:43.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:43.25 | AnduinLothar | not unless you loaded last |
| 22:43.36 | Kirkburn | I'll do that then |
| 22:43.39 | Iriel | Though you can always go looking for other fonts and swap them out |
| 22:43.53 | Kirkburn | I've been doing overrides in my current model anyway |
| 22:44.03 | Iriel | If someothing specifies fonts in its xml, loading last wont help you |
| 22:44.08 | Iriel | you'd have to explicitly fix them |
| 22:44.14 | Kirkburn | I found that my specifying the stuff in fonts.xml overrides the individual addons when they load |
| 22:44.17 | Iriel | (If I understand the inheritance model correctly) |
| 22:44.25 | Iriel | Most addons inherit from Fonts.xml |
| 22:44.34 | Iriel | so anything that does, will pick up changes you make to those base Font objects |
| 22:44.35 | Kirkburn | Okay, so it looks like my overrides will be staying |
| 22:44.42 | AnduinLothar | if they do, then you can change it easily |
| 22:44.48 | Iriel | Your overrides will work just the way they do now |
| 22:44.52 | Iriel | Except you'll code them from your addon |
| 22:44.58 | Iriel | which means you can change back and forth AT RUNTIME |
| 22:45.01 | Iriel | with a slashcommand |
| 22:45.03 | Kirkburn | Indeed, they'll be in lua, whatever that is :) |
| 22:45.08 | Iriel | So /cleanfonts on |
| 22:45.09 | Iriel | etc |
| 22:45.16 | Kirkburn | ClearFonts :( |
| 22:45.27 | Iriel | sorry, I was too lazy to scroll back 8-) |
| 22:45.30 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 22:45.34 | AnduinLothar | seems like a lot of work for slouken for just fonts.. |
| 22:45.37 | Iriel | You'd be able to do /clearfonts on /clearfonts off, etc |
| 22:45.38 | Kirkburn | And I thought it was famous! |
| 22:45.48 | Kirkburn | Cool |
| 22:45.52 | Iriel | It is, thta doesn't mean i remember its name, i'm terrible with names |
| 22:45.57 | AnduinLothar | amen |
| 22:46.01 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Well, he had to do SOMETTHING |
| 22:46.05 | AnduinLothar | fontabulous is a lil more rememberable |
| 22:46.08 | Kirkburn | True, but fonts are incredibly important Anduin |
| 22:46.09 | Iriel | he took away frameXML overrides, and fonts were the biggest gripe |
| 22:46.36 | AnduinLothar | right, forgot about the no more framexml |
| 22:46.37 | Kirkburn | ClearFont was originally based on fontabulous btw |
| 22:46.49 | Kirkburn | I've just rather overtaken him since then |
| 22:47.00 | AnduinLothar | i don't use either. still too hack like |
| 22:47.06 | Kirkburn | hardly |
| 22:47.32 | Kirkburn | it's not much different from installing a normal addon |
| 22:47.47 | AnduinLothar | ok hack as in framexml... which i entirely rewrote into addons 10 months ago |
| 22:47.51 | Iriel | Except it causes whiny users to come to the forum complaining that their windows dont work after patches |
| 22:48.00 | Cairenn | as with many statements, it was an expression of opinion, of which everyone has their own and they may not agree |
| 22:48.07 | Kirkburn | well true, but I patch *quickly* |
| 22:48.24 | Kirkburn | :) |
| 22:48.26 | AnduinLothar | the patching issue isn't my complaint. i could fix it myself |
| 22:48.28 | Iriel | Yeah, making your users remember they have to patch is the problem 8-) |
| 22:48.45 | Kirkburn | Same with most addons tho, of course |
| 22:48.51 | Iriel | Not really |
| 22:48.57 | Iriel | FrameXML overrides dont version like addons do |
| 22:49.04 | Iriel | Which is why it's good they'll be gone |
| 22:49.14 | Kirkburn | True |
| 22:49.22 | AnduinLothar | my complaint is that it uses framexml, where as i've spent a copious amount of time AVOIDING framexml overrides |
| 22:49.35 | Kirkburn | Fair enough, but I had no choice until now |
| 22:49.42 | Iriel | I look forward to the cool font addons that arise once 1.10 hits |
| 22:49.49 | AnduinLothar | because they conflict with everything and their mother and require a zillion exceptions |
| 22:49.50 | Cairenn | framexml = bad, but at present you've had no option, so yay, onwards and upwards |
| 22:49.51 | Kirkburn | Anyways ... I hope to be at the forefront of them! |
| 22:50.00 | Iriel | I posted some font related code in the 1.10 changes thread too |
| 22:50.02 | Iriel | if you get boed |
| 22:50.03 | Iriel | bored |
| 22:50.05 | Iriel | that is |
| 22:50.29 | Kirkburn | AnduinLothar, ClearFont *cannot* conflict with *anything*, except aftera major patch |
| 22:50.42 | Kirkburn | I did see that, it was a while back wasn't it? |
| 22:50.56 | AnduinLothar | it conflicts with my sizing and scaling conventions |
| 22:51.09 | Kirkburn | but it can't! |
| 22:51.21 | id` | Anyone on EU wanna play with me? :|:| http://digigen.nl/~Industrial/chars |
| 22:51.36 | AnduinLothar | it sure does. it wont throw an error, but it can make a good adodn look like crap if it's sized to work with a diff font |
| 22:51.46 | Kirkburn | All i've done is change the font location Anduin, and modified the styles defined in the fonts.xml |
| 22:52.12 | Iriel | AnduinLothar's point, which is potentially valid, is that if any of the replacement fonts differ in size at all from the blizzard ones, they might break things. |
| 22:52.16 | Kirkburn | Fonts.xml has nothing to do with sizing or scaling (except where font size is defined) |
| 22:52.22 | Iriel | there's a bunch of 'ifs' and 'mights' in there |
| 22:52.24 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 22:52.34 | Tain | Wow a, "Is Cosmos legal?" thread. |
| 22:52.44 | Kirkburn | Really? Where? |
| 22:52.47 | id` | haha |
| 22:52.48 | id` | cool |
| 22:52.49 | Cairenn | and not necessarily even "break", as opposed to "make look like shit" |
| 22:52.54 | Cairenn | I said that already :p |
| 22:53.01 | Cairenn | (about the cosmos thread) |
| 22:53.03 | id` | Cair you play on US? :< |
| 22:53.06 | Iriel | Well, if you're displaying values in a tight space, it may be 'break' 8-) |
| 22:53.10 | Cairenn | yup, when I play |
| 22:53.13 | id` | k |
| 22:53.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobster (n=wob@221.221.20.102) |
| 22:53.20 | AnduinLothar | and since one of my main addons is Archaeologist, almost entirely based on strings. I get lots of complains about text font/size/spacing/overridding/configurability |
| 22:53.24 | Kirkburn | Okay, fair enough, CF is slightly larger than normal |
| 22:53.46 | Kirkburn | But only slightly! |
| 22:54.12 | Kirkburn | I use Archaeologist btw |
| 22:54.13 | AnduinLothar | slightly means i put a 1 pixal horazontal offset in and now it looks liek 4 |
| 22:54.44 | AnduinLothar | then people whine and i have to make a horazontal offset slider |
| 22:55.05 | Kirkburn | Anyways, Iriel, I'll have to wait until we have more info I suppose? |
| 22:56.13 | AnduinLothar | i'm just whining myself tho.. not really to any point or purpose |
| 22:56.29 | Kirkburn | I'll probably update CF tomorrow (and you're all welcome to try it out!) and maybe stick a beta somewhere as a kind of WIP thing |
| 22:56.45 | Kirkburn | I think AnduinLothar needs a hug |
| 22:56.54 | Cairenn | you're welcome to toss it up in the Beta section of WoWI |
| 22:57.05 | AnduinLothar | ya. i do need a hug |
| 22:57.17 | Kirkburn | I should explore WoWI more ... okay, I'll see about doing that 2moro |
| 22:58.04 | Kirkburn | Cairenn, can't you just buy the 'other two' and make one big ui site? |
| 22:58.15 | Kirkburn | I'd be happy :p |
| 22:58.26 | Shouryuu | choice is good |
| 22:59.40 | Iriel | Is anyone bored enough to make me a screenshot of the StatRings anchor editor? |
| 23:00.19 | Kirkburn | Choice is good for downloaders, not necessarily good for authors :s I've never been able to update CF on WoW guru so I've given up |
| 23:00.25 | Shouryuu | I would, but wow isn't installed... |
| 23:00.51 | Shouryuu | hehe |
| 23:00.52 | Beladona | homeward! |
| 23:00.58 | Cairenn | later Bela |
| 23:01.02 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:01.10 | Beladona | must pick up man fuel on the way |
| 23:01.16 | Cairenn | you gonna be in tonight? kiddo is sleeping over at a friend's house, I may start drinking ... |
| 23:01.23 | Beladona | yes |
| 23:01.25 | Shouryuu | ddriiinkkiinngg.... |
| 23:01.34 | Beladona | I will be in, not sure how "lucid" I will be |
| 23:01.38 | Cairenn | heh |
| 23:01.54 | AnduinLothar | wow this wardrobe was coded by someone who knew very little about lua.. it looks like C... |
| 23:01.56 | Cairenn | Friday night = party time in WoWI lounge :) |
| 23:02.13 | Iriel | I have symphony this evening, so no party for me |
| 23:02.23 | Cairenn | boooo |
| 23:02.26 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:02.27 | Shouryuu | in how much time is friday night for you? |
| 23:02.40 | Cairenn | who/what, Iriel? |
| 23:02.40 | Shouryuu | symphony? |
| 23:02.47 | Kirkburn | It's gone midnight you crazy americans |
| 23:03.01 | Iriel | http://www.sfsymphony.org/templates/event_info.asp?nodeid=250&callid=93&eventid=934 |
| 23:03.08 | Shouryuu | Kirk where you at? |
| 23:03.13 | Kirkburn | (hence why I can't ask of my questions on the US forums, and apologies to Cairenn!) |
| 23:03.16 | AnduinLothar | 3pm atm |
| 23:03.22 | Cairenn | 6pm here |
| 23:03.23 | Beladona | does anyone else notice a sense of negativity towards the term "amreican" |
| 23:03.28 | ForgottenLords | Can I hear a w00t w00t for CANADA! |
| 23:03.29 | Shouryuu | midnight here... |
| 23:03.29 | Kirkburn | I'm at Italy, on loan from Bristol Uni, UK |
| 23:03.32 | Beladona | *american* even |
| 23:03.34 | Iriel | does anyone here understand WHY 8-) |
| 23:03.43 | Shouryuu | Paris |
| 23:03.48 | Iriel | Ahh. bristol, been there a few times myself. |
| 23:03.49 | Cairenn | Iriel: nice |
| 23:03.53 | Kirkburn | Oooh really? |
| 23:04.04 | Beladona | just because a lot of americans are asshats, doesn't mean the ones in this channel are, so grr |
| 23:04.16 | Iriel | Indeed, I went to University of Warwick, but had a number of friends in Bristol |
| 23:04.37 | Kirkburn | Warwick was my second choice |
| 23:04.47 | Kirkburn | It's a small world ... |
| 23:04.50 | Beladona | back soon |
| 23:05.31 | Kirkburn | Well, I'm doing my 3rd year of uni in italy like a crazy person. And I'm also in a net café. (Yay!) |
| 23:05.42 | Iriel | Warwick was technically my 2nd choice, since Cambridge gets upset if you dont put them first, but I decided that cambridge was too stuffy and switched my choice to warwick. |
| 23:06.04 | Iriel | (much to the chagrin of my school) |
| 23:06.53 | Kirkburn | Cambridge refused me :p |
| 23:07.07 | Kirkburn | And I didn't want to go their either! |
| 23:07.09 | Cairenn | speaking of universities and the multicultural nature of this channel .... anyone here into, or know of anyone into, archaeology? |
| 23:07.20 | Kirkburn | *there |
| 23:07.36 | Shouryuu | cair - sorry, but no |
| 23:07.51 | Kirkburn | Well, there are a few dwarves in WoW, oh u mean RL people? |
| 23:08.02 | AnduinLothar | lol one of the questions on the blizz app quiz was to distingush beween there their and they're |
| 23:08.07 | Cairenn | trying to help kiddo figure out where she should be applying |
| 23:08.10 | Shouryuu | how hard are unies? I mean what's the workload? Is it crapistic if you're in one of the best unies around? |
| 23:08.19 | Kirkburn | It VERY MUCH depends |
| 23:08.38 | Shouryuu | between good and bad unies or... |
| 23:08.42 | Kirkburn | Almost impossible in fact without an idea of what you want to do |
| 23:08.57 | Kirkburn | DO a sciency subject, expect to get lots of lectures |
| 23:09.09 | Kirkburn | Do a humanities, expect to get a lots of reaind/coursework |
| 23:09.19 | Kirkburn | *reading |
| 23:09.58 | Kirkburn | UK, first year is generally very easy |
| 23:10.14 | AnduinLothar | ya the guy who wrote wardrobe uses tables like arrays... pissing me off |
| 23:10.31 | Iriel | Why's that a problem? |
| 23:10.38 | Iriel | Tables-as-arrays are nice and fast |
| 23:10.41 | Iriel | and small |
| 23:10.44 | Kirkburn | By third year you'll be working very hard (unless you go to italy where you're confused and generally bored and feel like you're in school) |
| 23:10.47 | AnduinLothar | fast if you do them right |
| 23:11.12 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:11.34 | Kirkburn | Seriously, italian universities are like school, but on a large scale |
| 23:11.46 | AnduinLothar | but when i'm lookign for a realm name i dont want to loop the array to find the one with the .realm value i'm looking for |
| 23:11.58 | AnduinLothar | i want it as my damn key |
| 23:12.14 | Kirkburn | I haven't done *any* project/lab work here, and i'd do it every week in bristol (and enjoy it). I do Civil Engineering btw |
| 23:12.30 | Shouryuu | france is really fucked up. You spend two years working your ass off like never before, and then you enter a uni (or it's french equivalent). You've work so fucking hard for the past two yours, that the time you spent in unis, is like holidays |
| 23:12.40 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 23:12.43 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Ah, yes, doesn't make sense there. |
| 23:12.53 | AnduinLothar | and if you insert them correctly you still have a size value that works with getn |
| 23:13.47 | AnduinLothar | plus he makes the realm and char name global and indexes the table EVERY time he uses it in EVERY for loop |
| 23:14.00 | Shouryuu | I've just found the perfect answer to "Are UI legal?!?!". "if they weren't, Blizzard wouldn't have created a forum called "UI and Macros" ".... |
| 23:14.25 | AnduinLothar | New Forum Name: "Hacks & Cheats" |
| 23:14.30 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:14.30 | pagefault | thats what I love about this game |
| 23:14.35 | pagefault | it's so liberal about addons |
| 23:14.43 | Kirkburn | Anyways, back 'on topic' (?) I'll keep looking at ClearFont (yes, that's http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4283!), see if I can do anything for it |
| 23:14.44 | Cide | Shouryuu: you can't be that reasonable |
| 23:14.45 | Cairenn | I put that all the time Shouryuu |
| 23:15.06 | Kirkburn | I have 130+ addons |
| 23:15.16 | AnduinLothar | ok.. screw backwards compatibility. I'm starting over |
| 23:15.38 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Just write a 'data convertor' that rips the arrays apart and makes your structure from them |
| 23:15.55 | AnduinLothar | sooo boring |
| 23:15.58 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Then you dont have to be hobbled by poor data structure, and can re-write mostly everything else |
| 23:16.07 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : But your users get backwards compatibility |
| 23:16.12 | Kirkburn | Is that not lots? I thought it was lots. Then again, I'm probably asking in the wrong place |
| 23:16.30 | AnduinLothar | i run about 100 |
| 23:16.38 | Cide | ' |
| 23:16.42 | Iriel | I run about 20 |
| 23:16.43 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 23:16.46 | Cide | same |
| 23:16.51 | Cide | maybe 30, at most |
| 23:16.53 | Shouryuu | I have like, 5 |
| 23:16.58 | Kirkburn | I think cosmos pushes mine up most of the way |
| 23:16.58 | Iriel | and most of those are mine |
| 23:17.09 | Kirkburn | Iriel: nice |
| 23:17.15 | AnduinLothar | it tends to do that |
| 23:17.17 | Cairenn | lol, mine change on a regular basis |
| 23:17.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Seracht (n=Seracht@CPE00159a838ed7-CM00159a0250a2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:17.27 | Seracht | hi |
| 23:17.34 | Gryphen | heya |
| 23:17.34 | Cairenn | hi Seracht |
| 23:17.41 | Kirkburn | I thought the interface customizing people would have more than 200 :p |
| 23:17.47 | Seracht | has anyone used Discord Frame Modifier? |
| 23:17.54 | AnduinLothar | wanna buy me a new computer? |
| 23:18.02 | Seracht | does Discord Frame modifier work with 1.9? |
| 23:18.07 | Kirkburn | Sure, would you like a palm pilot? |
| 23:18.16 | Shouryuu | That's why I don't like cosmos |
| 23:18.24 | Kirkburn | Actually, I think I could get you a digital watch Anduin |
| 23:18.28 | Cairenn | Seracht: you'd be better asking on the Discord forums, Loz (the author) isn't in channel right now |
| 23:18.34 | AnduinLothar | either wya. i have neither |
| 23:18.45 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 23:18.53 | Seracht | I want to make a nice UI for my rogue |
| 23:18.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 23:19.03 | Seracht | you guys know any good UIs for rogues? |
| 23:19.08 | Seracht | like inspiration |
| 23:19.17 | Seracht | only plan on using - Discord Action Bars, and Discord Frame Modifier |
| 23:19.21 | Kirkburn | Shouryuu You could always just disable all the cosmos addons you don't want |
| 23:19.55 | AnduinLothar | ok.. i dont wanna start over.. |
| 23:20.16 | Cairenn | hey, how'd your test go, AnduinLothar? |
| 23:20.28 | AnduinLothar | lol. i dropped the class |
| 23:20.31 | Cairenn | and did you verify with the registrars office? |
| 23:20.37 | Shouryuu | Kirk - I might as well download the ones I want, rather than disabeling 80 add-ons and using 4 |
| 23:20.38 | Cairenn | heh, nm then |
| 23:20.42 | Kirkburn | I should really be off now, was lovely chatting to y'all. I'll be sure to pester you again 2moro :) *cough* Try ClearFont *cough* |
| 23:20.50 | Cairenn | later Kirkburn |
| 23:20.54 | Shouryuu | see yar |
| 23:20.54 | AnduinLothar | figured i would need more time weather i went with blizz or not |
| 23:21.00 | Kirkburn | byee |
| 23:21.00 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 23:21.07 | Cairenn | did you decide on the frat? |
| 23:21.11 | AnduinLothar | not yet |
| 23:22.04 | AnduinLothar | heh. if i start over i spose I could rename it.. |
| 23:22.16 | AnduinLothar | YAOM |
| 23:22.22 | AnduinLothar | yet another outfit mod |
| 23:22.32 | Shouryuu | would it be possible to write a mod that alerts you whenever you're MT's target, changes his target to another class than warrior? |
| 23:22.33 | Cairenn | YAEM |
| 23:22.43 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:22.45 | Cairenn | yet another equipment manager |
| 23:22.55 | Wobster | hrm, not recursive enough =P |
| 23:23.54 | AnduinLothar | what was the machine the jetsons went through to get changed and ready for work? |
| 23:23.57 | Cairenn | LOL |
| 23:24.18 | AnduinLothar | need to look up it's name |
| 23:25.30 | Wobster | man. Google was so good for the first eight or so listings for 'jetsons clothing machine'... and then it got dirty =P |
| 23:25.51 | Wobster | hrm, make that six =P |
| 23:26.39 | AnduinLothar | ya... jetsons hentai... creepy |
| 23:26.46 | Cairenn | ewwwww |
| 23:27.06 | Cairenn | that was *not* an image I needed |
| 23:27.08 | Iriel | MissingFriendOfLionAndWitch |
| 23:27.14 | Codayus | *twitch* |
| 23:27.16 | Codayus | Bad. |
| 23:27.20 | Codayus | Very bad. |
| 23:27.32 | Cairenn | huh? |
| 23:28.50 | Shouryuu | ok, next time I go AFK, I am no reading what was written while I wasn't here. I'll be grateful I've missed some of the horribles things you people say |
| 23:28.52 | Iriel | The lion the witch and the wadrobe. |
| 23:28.58 | Iriel | Their missing friend being the wardrobe |
| 23:28.59 | ForgottenLords | anyone here know Gaelic? |
| 23:29.04 | Iriel | It was a long shot, sorry |
| 23:29.20 | Iriel | WalkInCloset |
| 23:29.34 | Iriel | SupermansPhonebooth |
| 23:29.48 | AnduinLothar | Jeffery |
| 23:29.48 | Cairenn | ForgottenLords: cladhaire's so knows a fair bit |
| 23:30.00 | Wobster | OutOfTheCloset? =P |
| 23:30.02 | Cairenn | hah! I know! |
| 23:30.06 | Cairenn | Jeeves |
| 23:30.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 23:30.10 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 23:30.21 | AnduinLothar | ClotheMe |
| 23:30.34 | ForgottenLords | Ok, I'll ask cladhaire when I see them on later |
| 23:30.44 | AnduinLothar | MySwordPlease |
| 23:30.56 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 23:30.56 | ForgottenLords | on=active and talking. :) |
| 23:30.56 | Iriel | LaundryDay |
| 23:30.59 | Shouryuu | clad is a them? |
| 23:31.05 | Iriel | WhatTheHellDidYouDoWithMyPants |
| 23:31.09 | Cairenn | lol |
| 23:31.18 | Wobster | DropMyPants |
| 23:31.33 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:31.35 | Iriel | The cladhaire collective. |
| 23:31.37 | ForgottenLords | I do not want to assume Clad is either male or female either :) |
| 23:31.47 | Iriel | and them is more polite than it |
| 23:31.52 | ForgottenLords | and IT is derogatory |
| 23:31.56 | Wobster | pity there is no singular gender neutral =) |
| 23:32.12 | Wobster | well... no -good- singluar gender neutral |
| 23:32.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 23:32.27 | Beladona | herm |
| 23:32.34 | Cairenn | wb Bela |
| 23:32.36 | ForgottenLords | Ok, I'll ask cladhaire when I see said entity active and talking later |
| 23:32.40 | Shouryuu | it? |
| 23:32.58 | Wobster | As FL said, it ends up a bit derogatory |
| 23:33.03 | Beladona | if it helps, I believe cladhaire is male |
| 23:33.15 | AnduinLothar | cheater |
| 23:33.16 | Wobster | yus |
| 23:33.20 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:33.21 | Wobster | according to his photo, anyway |
| 23:33.55 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:34.04 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 23:34.09 | Cairenn | well of course you do Iriel, you were the one that took the pictures of me in my hotel room |
| 23:34.10 | Beladona | sooo, when is happy hour? |
| 23:34.31 | Tain | After my second rum&coke. |
| 23:34.33 | Shouryuu | awww man it'll be sleepy hour for me... |
| 23:34.46 | Cairenn | happy hour is whenever you want it to be |
| 23:34.59 | Shouryuu | that isn't true |
| 23:35.19 | Tain | Yeah happy hour usually only lasts between around my second and forth rum &coke. |
| 23:35.22 | Shouryuu | you don't always have acces to large quantities of alcohol.... |
| 23:35.26 | Iriel | meeting time, idling |
| 23:35.27 | ForgottenLords | do pets get more Training Points when they work toward Best Friend? |
| 23:35.35 | Cairenn | yes |
| 23:35.37 | Shouryuu | what's after the fourth? |
| 23:35.43 | Tain | Annoyed hour |
| 23:35.46 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:35.47 | ForgottenLords | Ok... -50 on a lvl 60 isnt cool :) |
| 23:36.09 | Tain | Sometimes followed by Belligerent hour. |
| 23:36.22 | Cairenn | Tain? Belligerent? nahhhhh |
| 23:36.31 | Shouryuu | I don't get aggresive when overly drunk |
| 23:36.42 | Tain | Thankfully by that point it's close to Passing Out hour. |
| 23:36.45 | Shouryuu | usualy get depressed but I'm always peace and love |
| 23:36.46 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 23:37.11 | Tain | All we are saying... is give peace a chance. |
| 23:37.18 | Shouryuu | yeah! |
| 23:37.39 | Tain | We are the world... we are the children |
| 23:38.03 | Shouryuu | Allez patron! |
| 23:38.35 | Tain | Viva le prince petit! |
| 23:38.52 | Shouryuu | petit prince... but <3 anyways |
| 23:39.17 | Shouryuu | ohh since we're all of different nationalities and cultures and all... What drinking games do you ppl have? |
| 23:40.20 | Shouryuu | Solitaire? |
| 23:40.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem|AV (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 23:41.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeetg (n=wguru@63.147.183.47) |
| 23:46.08 | id` | O:> |
| 23:46.33 | id` | ():> |
| 23:46.36 | id` | w/e |
| 23:47.57 | Tem|AV | damnit! |
| 23:48.04 | Tem|AV | I just waited 3 hours to get into an AV game |
| 23:48.12 | Tem|AV | 2 minutes after I join |
| 23:48.15 | Tem|AV | the bg ends |
| 23:48.31 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 23:48.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:48.49 | Shouryuu | well you got a medal I guess |
| 23:50.40 | Tem|AV | whoopty-freaken-do |
| 23:50.43 | Legorol | if there is an enchantment on a 2H staff, is it supposed to show with a glow? |
| 23:50.50 | Legorol | i don't think i have ever seen enchant glow on a staff |
| 23:50.51 | Tem|AV | I've been looking forward to doing Av for over a month |
| 23:50.56 | Tem|AV | so I could use my flask of supreme power |
| 23:51.02 | Legorol | Tem|AV, it's not a coincidence |
| 23:51.10 | Legorol | probably the game was getting close to end and someone left |
| 23:51.13 | Legorol | freeing you up a spot |
| 23:51.15 | Tem|AV | I get in, pop my 50g potion, and BAM the fucking thing ends |
| 23:51.22 | Legorol | ah |
| 23:51.25 | Legorol | what potion? |
| 23:52.02 | Tem|AV | Flask of Supremem power |
| 23:52.21 | Tem|AV | s/Supremem/Supreme/ |
| 23:52.52 | Shouryuu | legorol - yeah the enchant shows, it's usualy on the end of the staff, not the rod it's self |
| 23:52.54 | Tem|AV | I did get one 2140 frostbolt crit in before the thing ended |
| 23:55.10 | Tem|AV | ASDFLKASJFLEW! |
| 23:55.23 | Tem|AV | I also used a brilliant wizard oil on my staff |
| 23:55.26 | Tem|AV | which guess what |
| 23:55.31 | Tem|AV | doesn't persist across isntances |
| 23:55.35 | AnduinLothar | souds expensive |
