| 00:00.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GenNMX (n=generalm@pcp0011052198pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.09 | Gryphen | khoas is the addon manager |
| 00:00.16 | Gryphen | khaos |
| 00:00.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GenNMX (n=generalm@pcp0011052198pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.58 | Corrodias | is there any reason it would not be possible to just copy the khaos folder out and use those addons designed for cosmos, if i already have the other libraries? |
| 00:00.59 | Osagasu | Damn |
| 00:01.05 | Osagasu | what did they change in this patch? |
| 00:01.16 | Gryphen | khaos uses the libs |
| 00:01.30 | Gryphen | you can toss anything you dont want otherwise |
| 00:01.45 | Iriel | Almost nothing changed in 1.9.1 |
| 00:01.51 | Corrodias | then when addons on curse say they require "cosmos", they really only require "khaos"? |
| 00:02.01 | Corrodias | and other libraries that come in it |
| 00:02.01 | AnduinLothar | Cosmos used to be an addon |
| 00:02.01 | Gryphen | ya |
| 00:02.08 | Osagasu | Well I started up and I got so many errors that my game crashed |
| 00:02.14 | Maldivia | lol... |
| 00:02.20 | Iriel | Do you have any frameXML changes? |
| 00:02.27 | Corrodias | not any more |
| 00:02.28 | Iriel | And did you re-enable your out of date addons? |
| 00:02.30 | Corrodias | oh |
| 00:02.33 | Gryphen | cosmos used to be the name of the addon manager and package, now khaos is the addon manager and cosmos is the package |
| 00:02.59 | Osagasu | Well if nothing changed since yesterday then why's it matter if they're loaded or not? |
| 00:03.10 | AnduinLothar | ahhh.... that's why addon manager didn't load.. lol thx iriel |
| 00:03.13 | Osagasu | Because yesterday none of them were buggy |
| 00:03.16 | Cairenn | because it force unchecked the "load outdated" |
| 00:03.28 | Osagasu | I force loaded them, yes |
| 00:03.29 | Maldivia | ... which is really annoying |
| 00:03.49 | Maldivia | I haven't had a single problem with any of the addons I use, in 1.9.1 |
| 00:03.51 | Corrodias | new patch, eh |
| 00:03.59 | Corrodias | new round of authentication delays |
| 00:04.27 | Iriel | The lack of a popup this time is bad (re: outdated addon toggle going off) |
| 00:04.39 | Corrodias | by the way, AnduinLothar, slight thing i'd like to mention about Wardrobe |
| 00:05.01 | Corrodias | if you have Titan, it won't show the minimap-bound icon unless and until you load it on the titan panel |
| 00:05.10 | Corrodias | regardless of your setting |
| 00:05.14 | AnduinLothar | ya I know, working on an update |
| 00:05.35 | Corrodias | i just commented out the "hide the icon" line for my use. works nice, good job |
| 00:06.11 | Corrodias | "patching scan.dll" hmm. i wonder if warden was the cause of my random game crashes before. |
| 00:06.38 | Corrodias | i wonder aloud because once i got the error box and clicked to close but the game itself didn't actually exit |
| 00:14.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 00:14.53 | Maldivia | Corrodias: scan.dll is the scanner used by the Launcher, not the game - afaik |
| 00:16.40 | Osagasu | I don't get this |
| 00:16.46 | Osagasu | Its insane |
| 00:16.57 | Osagasu | I disabled everything I updated today |
| 00:17.03 | Osagasu | It still doesn't work |
| 00:17.09 | Guillotine | what doesn |
| 00:17.12 | Guillotine | doesnt* |
| 00:17.14 | Osagasu | WoW |
| 00:17.28 | Guillotine | try running repair.exe? |
| 00:17.46 | Maldivia | tried starting on a fresh? -- renaming WTF and Interface and deleting WDB? |
| 00:20.12 | Osagasu | ah fuck it. going to eat |
| 00:28.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GenNMX (n=generalm@pcp0011052198pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:28.33 | Corrodias | ah |
| 00:53.02 | Corrodias | is it just me, or does Silver's MiniZoneMap (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=&id=4338) not actually do anything? |
| 00:55.28 | AnduinLothar | no, it's like Alpha map, letting u look at the map while moving, it just uses the battlfield frame and sit on the bottom right |
| 00:55.39 | Corrodias | that would be great, except that it actually doesn't show up, for me |
| 00:55.50 | Iriel | The battlefield minimap seems to have recurring issues |
| 00:56.08 | Iriel | I should write an addon to reset its location for folks with problems |
| 00:56.54 | Corrodias | i tried BattlefieldMap:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", "WorldFrame", "BOTTOMRIGHT", 0, 0); but it didn't change anything |
| 00:58.24 | Iriel | I think it's BattlefieldMinimapTab you want to reloacte |
| 00:58.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:59.01 | Corrodias | no change |
| 00:59.05 | Tem | Anyone else seeing people move all retarded? |
| 00:59.14 | Iriel | You are doing a :ClearAllPoints() first? |
| 00:59.17 | Tem | For example, no one ever moves forward when they run |
| 00:59.18 | Iriel | Tem: Known issue (per general forum) |
| 00:59.21 | Corrodias | maybe it needs clearallpoints! i'm inexperienced at this! |
| 00:59.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:59.28 | Tem | the run in place and teleport forward |
| 00:59.30 | Tain | Oh, I was going to say Tem, "What did you just come back from Walmart?" |
| 00:59.44 | Tem | lol Tain |
| 00:59.58 | Tem | no, I spent the day playing old games |
| 01:00.10 | Tem | total annihilation mostly |
| 01:00.15 | Tain | TA was so fun |
| 01:00.20 | Tain | I haven't plyaed in years. |
| 01:00.30 | Tain | But I remember when it came out I did. A lot. |
| 01:00.32 | Tem | me either before today |
| 01:00.51 | Tem | ug this running thing looks horrible |
| 01:01.08 | Tem | I hope ony doesn't try that crap later |
| 01:02.03 | Corrodias | nope, didn't help to do even BattlefieldMinimapTab:ClearAllPoints(); BattlefieldMinimapTab:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", "WorldFrame", "BOTTOMRIGHT"); BattlefieldMinimap:ClearAllPoints(); BattlefieldMinimap:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", "WorldFrame", "BOTTOMRIGHT"); |
| 01:02.15 | Corrodias | with it supposedly shown or not |
| 01:08.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:10.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (n=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 01:10.37 | dukeku | i hate you, xchat |
| 01:10.39 | dukeku | hate, hate hate |
| 01:11.23 | Osagasu | Hmm |
| 01:11.24 | Osagasu | odd |
| 01:11.34 | GenNMX | dukeku: irssi for the win |
| 01:11.54 | dukeku | GenNMX: i use irssi everywhere *but* home |
| 01:11.56 | dukeku | i should change that ;P |
| 01:12.03 | Osagasu | It looks like the Lua memory is gaining and dumping a cycle every 5 seconds or so |
| 01:12.19 | Osagasu | I go from like 300 to 330 that fast |
| 01:12.19 | GenNMX | dukeku: You get used to a split window |
| 01:12.30 | dukeku | @_@ |
| 01:21.39 | Corrodias | well, once you make your addon to move the battlefield minimap around, lemme know :) |
| 01:21.57 | Iriel | I'll have to get into a battleground first |
| 01:25.28 | Guillotine | so does anyone know what patch 1.9.1 fixes? |
| 01:26.25 | End | a couple different things |
| 01:26.25 | Corrodias | it had patch notes while installing. -.-; |
| 01:26.34 | End | yeah |
| 01:26.40 | Corrodias | most important to PvPers, druids can't heal themselves just by shifting into and out of bear form any more |
| 01:26.47 | cladhaire | =( |
| 01:26.48 | Corrodias | but they didn't fix the reputation bug |
| 01:26.59 | End | that was an interesting bug |
| 01:27.09 | End | they also fixed the snowman /cry |
| 01:27.10 | cladhaire | i was a fan |
| 01:27.19 | Osagasu | Still damn slow Auth |
| 01:27.38 | Corrodias | snowman /cry? |
| 01:28.27 | End | they added a cast time to the snowman, and I don't think it can be used in combat anymore either |
| 01:28.42 | End | the kit |
| 01:28.48 | End | the snowman disguise |
| 01:29.03 | Corrodias | but what does that have to do with /cry? |
| 01:29.10 | End | it makes me wanna cry? |
| 01:29.17 | Corrodias | ...oh, i get it |
| 01:29.18 | End | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:29.24 | End | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:29.44 | Tain | Wooo got my cape |
| 01:29.51 | End | which is that? |
| 01:30.13 | Tain | City of Villains. My Villain earned his cape by taking it from a hero. |
| 01:30.28 | End | ah, cool |
| 01:35.11 | pagefault | it's annoying the patcher always changed my desktop icon to the launcher |
| 01:35.13 | pagefault | argh |
| 01:35.37 | Osagasu | Damnit |
| 01:35.57 | Osagasu | Its one of my addons. And with the Auth servers the way they are, I don't have time to test them all out |
| 01:36.14 | pagefault | ah so it's not just me |
| 01:36.27 | pagefault | I am stuck on auth |
| 01:36.40 | Osagasu | I can get past it |
| 01:36.50 | Osagasu | but not in any decent amount of time |
| 01:37.21 | pagefault | they should really stop selling the game until they can handle the influx of new users |
| 01:37.25 | pagefault | but that will never happen |
| 01:37.31 | Osagasu | They did last year |
| 01:38.02 | pagefault | the server I play on is becoming unplayable in the night |
| 01:38.48 | pagefault | oh I am handshaking now |
| 01:43.12 | cladhaire | this people warping rocks |
| 01:47.11 | Osagasu | o.O |
| 01:47.14 | Osagasu | Damn |
| 01:47.23 | Osagasu | I think I inadvertantly founf the cause |
| 01:48.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 01:49.09 | Osagasu | Damn |
| 01:49.21 | Osagasu | I officially hate the dude who took over lore now |
| 01:49.55 | Osagasu | He managed to cause it to take so much time loading you disconnect from AFK before it fully loads! |
| 01:57.23 | Tem | Lore? |
| 01:58.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 01:59.39 | Osagasu | If anyone spoke to me after the last time I said anything, I didn't hear it |
| 02:00.52 | Iriel | Tem said "<Tem> Lore?" |
| 02:00.55 | Iriel | that was it |
| 02:03.20 | GenNMX | Lore is a very cool addon which lets you talk in different languages using a translation dictionary. No cross-faction communication, of course. |
| 02:03.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge a-stray-cat (n=email@adsl-67-123-143-97.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 02:03.47 | GenNMX | You can even set up interpreters, and translate other people speaking in Lore-made languages, and make up your own language. |
| 02:08.33 | GenNMX | I like to speak in Demonic. |
| 02:10.47 | cladhaire | ... my world server is down =( |
| 02:11.18 | cladhaire | and i was farming so peacefully =) |
| 02:13.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RasmusKL (n=RasmusKL@park332.koll.au.dk) |
| 02:13.36 | Osagasu | This patch has screwed up so much |
| 02:14.28 | Osagasu | I've noticed that some dependencies don't show up properly anymore, people jumping around |
| 02:15.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:26.04 | GenNMX | I like how the global MotD is "We suggest you disable all your addons to avoid errors", not "If you have errors, disable all your addons and check to see if any of the addons have updates." |
| 02:27.08 | Tain | The way I understand it their official stance has to be that you shouldn't use addons, even though they make it possible to do so, from a legal standpoint. |
| 02:27.31 | Tain | They open the door to possibly being held liable for someone making a malicous addon if they official come out and say running addons is ok. |
| 02:27.54 | GenNMX | slouken must love that policy. |
| 02:28.31 | Tain | It's unfortunate, but we've become such a litigous society (in the US) that I'm not surprised anymore. |
| 02:28.42 | End | yeah :-'/ |
| 02:28.46 | GenNMX | No wonder he's the only developer who posts openly in the main forums, sounds like poor slouken's job might be like the black sheep in WoW's department. |
| 02:29.18 | Tain | hehe |
| 02:30.13 | Tain | I will say this. I've participated in most MMORPGs that have been on the market. EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, City of Heroes/Villains, Star Wars Galaxies, Guildwars, others I'm probably forgetting. |
| 02:30.36 | Tain | Slouken is the single best example of a developer fo ra company communicating with the players that I've seen. |
| 02:30.57 | Corrodias | bioware's pretty good on talking to people, too |
| 02:30.58 | Iriel | CoH's Geko is pretty open (or at least was when I played it, Dunno now) |
| 02:31.14 | Legorol | Good evening |
| 02:31.21 | Tain | He is, Iriel. I feel CoH has closed up a bit since the early days. |
| 02:31.29 | Legorol | In case you guys are interested, I have a Macro Challenge :-) |
| 02:31.41 | Tain | The same say that DAOC did. Camelot original posted a lot in the beginning. It was refreshing. |
| 02:31.49 | Tain | And then slowly started closing up. |
| 02:32.14 | Tain | DaoC used to say, "Hey we fucked this up, sorry about that. We're going to fix it in the next patch." |
| 02:32.19 | Legorol | The idea of the macro challenge is that (given some small print), come up with the shortest possible macro to do a 2H<->1H+Shield weapon swap |
| 02:32.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 02:32.20 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 02:32.49 | Legorol | Here are the terms: |
| 02:32.50 | Iriel | The small print being that it's for a rogue who can't use a shield? |
| 02:32.55 | Legorol | nope |
| 02:32.56 | Legorol | lol |
| 02:32.58 | Legorol | Ok, so |
| 02:33.13 | Tain | Ok that's easy |
| 02:33.18 | Legorol | It has to be a single macro not reliant on any other macros or AddOns that works under default blizz UI |
| 02:33.35 | Tain | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:33.37 | Legorol | You may only reference the default slashcomms and the API |
| 02:33.45 | Legorol | Tain, i haven't finished with the smallprint ;-) |
| 02:33.52 | Tain | It does have a monkey as a dependancy though. |
| 02:34.11 | Legorol | The macro has to use 2 specific bag slots, it's up to you which ones you use |
| 02:34.26 | Legorol | E.g. you can use (0,1) and (0,2) if you like |
| 02:34.38 | Iriel | Can it pollute the global namespace? |
| 02:34.46 | Iriel | (I think that should be forbidden, personally) |
| 02:34.49 | Legorol | it should expect the 2H weap in (0,1) and the 1H weap+shield in (0,1)+(0,2) in that case |
| 02:34.51 | Tain | Why not post it on the Blizz Ui forums. There aren't enough posts about weapons swapping macros there. |
| 02:34.56 | Legorol | yes it can pollute the namespace |
| 02:35.05 | Legorol | the winner is the one with shortest character count |
| 02:35.10 | Legorol | so do away with those semicolons ;-) |
| 02:35.40 | Tain | And what is the prizE? |
| 02:35.44 | Legorol | The macro has to be reversible in the sense that it must be able to correctly perform both the 2H->1H and the 1H->2H swap |
| 02:35.44 | Corrodias | are semicolons totally optional in LUA or what? |
| 02:35.44 | Iriel | But namespace pollution can break ThottBot |
| 02:35.49 | Legorol | Corrodias, yes they are |
| 02:35.53 | Iriel | Corrodias : more or less |
| 02:35.56 | Corrodias | what is this "pollution"? |
| 02:36.09 | Iriel | pollution == using a global symbol when a local woul dhave done |
| 02:36.09 | Legorol | Iriel, since this challenge is for a macro based on default UI, it is allowed to pollute the namespace ;-) |
| 02:36.17 | End | that's because thottbot obfusicates their code :P |
| 02:36.27 | Iriel | Well, I'll be sure to use T and C as globals if I attempt it |
| 02:36.36 | Iriel | Because someone's going to use the result with cosmos |
| 02:36.36 | Legorol | go right ahead |
| 02:36.40 | Tain | Anything that breaks Thottbot should get extra credit. |
| 02:36.41 | Iriel | and then we can all laugh |
| 02:36.41 | End | er, obfusticate even |
| 02:36.43 | Corrodias | if thottbot can't handle some simple global variables, fuck it |
| 02:36.51 | Legorol | well once you get a winner, you can make it local if you want to publish it ;-) |
| 02:36.59 | Legorol | this is a challenge for fun and brain exercise |
| 02:37.07 | Tain | And what is the prize? |
| 02:37.08 | Legorol | do it if you like |
| 02:37.16 | Legorol | the prize is recognition, kudos and a well done ;-) |
| 02:37.20 | AnduinLothar | uh oh... new IntelMacs.. now I'm gonna have to upgrade.. |
| 02:37.22 | Legorol | and the intellectual satisfaction |
| 02:37.25 | Tain | Oh. So no prize. |
| 02:38.10 | Legorol | Just so you know, my version is less than 150 characters |
| 02:38.25 | Legorol | I will not tell you the exact size just yet, so that you don't despair, but it's less than that ;-) |
| 02:38.36 | Tain | See I generally only do things if I have a use for them. |
| 02:38.45 | Legorol | Tain, the use is this: |
| 02:38.55 | Legorol | you can memorise it, and when you walk up to a compy that has only the default UI, you can use it |
| 02:38.58 | GenNMX | AnduinLothar: Next question. How far away is a i386 OSX / OpenGL binary from Linux compatibility? |
| 02:38.59 | Legorol | as happens with me sometimes |
| 02:39.11 | Iriel | I tend to prefer shortening other people's macros |
| 02:39.13 | Legorol | the only macro i absolutely need is the 2H<>1H+shield swap |
| 02:39.16 | Legorol | so i have this one memorized |
| 02:39.37 | Legorol | Iriel, feel free to leech a weapon swap macro from somewhere and shorten it ;-) |
| 02:39.39 | Iriel | Hm, brevity isn't necessarily an advantage for memorization |
| 02:39.45 | Legorol | that's true |
| 02:39.50 | Legorol | bah, you guys are too picky |
| 02:39.51 | Iriel | I'll wait until you post yours and see if I can make it better |
| 02:39.54 | Legorol | if you don't want to try, then don't try |
| 02:39.55 | Tain | Although a nice exercise in mental olympics it doesn't have any other interest to me. |
| 02:39.59 | AnduinLothar | Well, they went to great lengths to make sure it only works on intel id'd chips with the specific codes shipped by apple, so we'll see |
| 02:40.19 | pagefault | that will be cracked fast |
| 02:40.23 | AnduinLothar | we'll see |
| 02:40.30 | pagefault | no, it will |
| 02:40.34 | AnduinLothar | i make no bets either way |
| 02:40.37 | pagefault | copy protection is such a pointless thing |
| 02:40.53 | Tain | Copy protection / securty as a whole isn't pointless. |
| 02:41.02 | AnduinLothar | copy protection is a large industry |
| 02:41.05 | Tain | Its point is to weed out the lazy people. |
| 02:41.17 | Legorol | ok i am clueless about assembler, but just because the CPU is the same, does that necessarily imply binary compatibility? |
| 02:41.20 | Iriel | We're nearing the age where it's feasible to have software that runs on only one computer (i.e. is encrypted with a key only your cpu has the other half of) |
| 02:41.23 | Legorol | i mean, what if the OS is totally different? |
| 02:41.40 | Legorol | so that if OS-dependent APIs, tables etc. are used, you can't easily port it.. |
| 02:41.51 | pagefault | the kernel for OS X is all open source |
| 02:41.53 | AnduinLothar | people make copious amounts on money making it harder to port |
| 02:41.59 | pagefault | people have already written drivers for it |
| 02:42.02 | Tain | Then wee're also nearing the age of "fixes" for that sort of thing, Iriel. |
| 02:42.10 | Tain | Which is sad to me. |
| 02:42.15 | AnduinLothar | w/e pointless to argue about |
| 02:42.34 | AnduinLothar | same deal as most software. you pay for support and continued updates |
| 02:42.37 | Iriel | I agree it's not a happy direction to be going in. |
| 02:43.10 | pagefault | TCP will be the downfall of MS as I see it |
| 02:43.16 | Legorol | how different is the hardware architecture of an Intel Mac from a PC? |
| 02:43.16 | pagefault | people will only take this crap for so long |
| 02:43.38 | Osagasu | Hey Anduin |
| 02:43.42 | Legorol | even if the CPU is the same, what if the mobo has fundamentally different structure? |
| 02:43.48 | AnduinLothar | for instance my father works for a software company that leases lense design software. They lease the software, but what you're really paying for is the support and help of the authors and such |
| 02:43.52 | Osagasu | Is your version of Wardrobe downloadable somewhere? |
| 02:43.57 | Tain | tcp will be the downfall of MS? I definitely don't follow that argument. |
| 02:44.04 | pagefault | Legorol, anything can be emulated or virtualized |
| 02:44.20 | AnduinLothar | on WoWI |
| 02:44.22 | Legorol | yah but then why not just create a Mac emulator.. |
| 02:44.22 | Tem | but the more emulation you do the slower it gets |
| 02:44.24 | Legorol | that's always possible |
| 02:44.33 | Legorol | we are talking about native porting, aren't we? |
| 02:44.33 | pagefault | it depends how you do the emulation |
| 02:44.41 | Tem | this is true |
| 02:44.41 | Osagasu | okay |
| 02:44.44 | AnduinLothar | there already is an emulator, prolly easier now |
| 02:45.07 | Legorol | correct me if i'm wrong, but you can always execute any program written for a Turing complete machine on any other Turing complete machine, using emulation |
| 02:45.12 | Tem | I'm jumping in at the wrong time, but why would anyone /want/ a mac emulator? |
| 02:45.23 | Ktron | PWND! |
| 02:45.23 | pagefault | Tem, just for the sake of doing it |
| 02:45.31 | Tem | oh |
| 02:45.34 | Tem | I understand that |
| 02:45.42 | Tem | I do stuff for the sake of doing it all the time |
| 02:45.52 | Legorol | then do my weapon swap macro ;-) |
| 02:45.54 | pagefault | until the actual intel macs come out we don't know much about them |
| 02:46.04 | pagefault | I am sure at soon as it hits a store someone will already be taking it apart |
| 02:46.09 | Ktron | heh |
| 02:46.11 | Tain | Old Macs had the right idea, you could buy an emulation card that had an 8086 onboard to do PC emulation. |
| 02:46.20 | Ktron | just like GooBoxes, if they're real |
| 02:46.34 | AnduinLothar | some believe Mac OS is superior to XP. that would be one reason. cheeper than buying the old hardware |
| 02:46.55 | pagefault | the OS may be superior but the hardware isn't |
| 02:46.59 | Legorol | so we are talkign about porting the OS to a PC? and then any games etc.. |
| 02:47.03 | pagefault | it's throw away PC |
| 02:47.05 | pagefault | you can't upgrade it |
| 02:47.40 | Legorol | if Mac OS is *nix based, why not run Linux on the PC, if you want a supposedly superior OS to XP? |
| 02:47.49 | Legorol | btw, I prefer XP to Linux, whether it's superior or not |
| 02:47.50 | Ktron | until Macs can swap cpus, memory, and hard drives and use PCI cards as easily as PCs can, I won't want one |
| 02:47.57 | pagefault | because linux isn't as "pretty" as OS X |
| 02:47.59 | GenNMX | Porting OSX to a PC to get games? Most of them are just Linux ports. |
| 02:48.02 | pagefault | thats pretty much the only reason |
| 02:48.18 | Ktron | pagefault, Linux can be way prettier than OS X, way prettier |
| 02:48.20 | AnduinLothar | interesting magnetic power cables.. |
| 02:48.38 | Ktron | My trouble with mac's is the difficulty in upgrading and the difficulty in software |
| 02:48.39 | pagefault | Ktron, yes but I mean, to make it look as pretty and be as easy to use, you have to be an advanced user |
| 02:48.45 | pagefault | thats the problem with linux |
| 02:48.52 | GenNMX | pagefault is right, we're missing the point here. Could your grandma navigate around Linux comfortably? |
| 02:48.53 | Legorol | Ktron, funnily enough, it's your lack of ability to do such cusomisation which makes Macs more reliable |
| 02:49.00 | Beladona | Lego, you prefer XP to Linux? |
| 02:49.03 | Legorol | Since it's a single company and single system, it's thoroughly tested together |
| 02:49.18 | Legorol | unlike the millions of junk PCs out there that are a billion combination of hardware |
| 02:49.21 | pagefault | I love linux, but I think it's in no form right now to be used by someone who knows nothing about PCs |
| 02:49.23 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 02:49.24 | GenNMX | I personally hate XP, but I build my own *nix systems. |
| 02:49.25 | AnduinLothar | well, you can customize it, it's just harder :P |
| 02:49.25 | cladhaire | thats the selling pont =) |
| 02:49.27 | cladhaire | point |
| 02:49.27 | Ktron | Some distributions of linux are nearly as plug-and-done as Mac's, but obviously, you do lose the ability to pick the settings that you like the best |
| 02:49.28 | Legorol | no wonder you can't expect to run a software reliably ona PC |
| 02:49.54 | Legorol | Beladona, yes I prefer XP to Linux |
| 02:49.57 | Ktron | Legorol, heh, /agree-- this is my new quote I came up with today:: "There's no such thing as too many options, just not enough knowledge." |
| 02:49.58 | Beladona | you pollute the global namespace with that thinking |
| 02:49.58 | pagefault | the good thing about OS X is that it hides everything that you could possibly mess your computer up with from the average user |
| 02:50.07 | GenNMX | My grandfather is special, he was an electrical engineer who started using PCs when they first came out. He can navigate Linux, but I wouldn't want to try and talk my mom into making the leap, even though she used to use DOS. |
| 02:50.38 | Legorol | please don't misunderstand, i am not making an argument saying XP is better or worse than Linux |
| 02:50.40 | Ktron | I use XP because I want to be able to play WoW easily and run things like Autodesk Inventor, 3DS Max, and FL Studio (Fruity Loops).... I don't think any of them have linux versions yet |
| 02:50.43 | Legorol | i am talking about personal preference |
| 02:50.53 | Tain | Thankfully for me I'm celf-centered enough to not care whether or not anyone else can use anything, as long as it works for me. |
| 02:50.55 | Ktron | I don't dual boot because I don't want to reboot all the time heh |
| 02:50.55 | Beladona | XP is "easy" |
| 02:50.58 | Beladona | no doubt about that |
| 02:51.03 | Legorol | which is rooted basically in one thing: I know XP inside out, but I don't know Linux anywhere near that well |
| 02:51.07 | AnduinLothar | whee another pointless mac/linux/windows discussion |
| 02:51.12 | pagefault | another problem is that everyone is already used to XP and MS Office and the like |
| 02:51.14 | Legorol | so I actually feel more comfortable with XP because i can customize it more |
| 02:51.18 | pagefault | if you give them firefox or openoffice |
| 02:51.21 | pagefault | they won't have any idea how to use it |
| 02:51.30 | Tain | Weee another pointless complaint about another pointless mac/linux/windows discussion |
| 02:51.41 | Legorol | the discussion isn't as pointless as it is normally |
| 02:51.48 | Legorol | normally it's XP pwns Linux pwns XP |
| 02:51.50 | Beladona | its merely preference |
| 02:51.57 | Legorol | at least here people are only expressing preferences ;-) |
| 02:52.01 | pagefault | yeah this isn't OMG YOU SUXXX USE LINUX |
| 02:52.03 | Legorol | which is much more sane |
| 02:52.07 | GenNMX | I have a lot of stuff I want to make sure is stable, so I use Windows XP, and stuff I can only do on XP (like development). World of Warcraft is one of those things. |
| 02:52.24 | Beladona | I use wow |
| 02:52.26 | Beladona | on linux |
| 02:52.28 | Ktron | heh, I'm all about the alternatives for XP though-- firefox, openoffice, gaim, GIMP, filezilla, xchat, teatimer... |
| 02:52.30 | GenNMX | But I have two Linux boxes and one BSD box. I mainly use the XP for gaming. |
| 02:52.31 | AnduinLothar | wait, did u just cal XP stable? |
| 02:52.37 | AnduinLothar | ;) |
| 02:52.41 | pagefault | hopefully as more windows applications move to .NET it means they will run in linux as well with mono |
| 02:53.03 | GenNMX | AnduinLothar: History says WoW is more stable on XP then Linux on Cedega |
| 02:53.06 | Ktron | Beladona, did you have to buy one of the win emulators, or did you use one of the freely available ones?M |
| 02:53.26 | Beladona | I didn't buy anything |
| 02:53.32 | pagefault | in my experience WoW is more stable on windows but actually runs faster in linux |
| 02:53.33 | Ktron | k |
| 02:53.38 | pagefault | so you have a choice I guess |
| 02:53.52 | Tain | GenNMX: There isn't enough of a sample set to qualify that data. |
| 02:53.54 | Beladona | I see it this way |
| 02:53.58 | Ktron | Until I joined this channel, I hadn't heard of people using WoW on linux |
| 02:54.05 | Beladona | I love linux for day to day use, development, etc... |
| 02:54.18 | Beladona | if I can play wow on it too without switching to my windows box |
| 02:54.23 | Beladona | all for it |
| 02:54.25 | Ktron | Beladona, so you're using cedega? |
| 02:54.29 | Beladona | yeah |
| 02:54.43 | pagefault | just wait for vmware to come out with a newer version |
| 02:54.43 | Ktron | I wonder if cedega can handle things like 3DS Max or FL Studio |
| 02:54.47 | pagefault | you will be able to run WoW in XP |
| 02:54.51 | pagefault | and have 3d support |
| 02:54.59 | Beladona | lol |
| 02:55.06 | Tain | VMWare's different of course, but damn that company is doing good things. |
| 02:55.10 | pagefault | it already works for some games |
| 02:55.12 | cladhaire | you do know VMware is owned by microsoft now.. right? |
| 02:55.15 | cladhaire | err |
| 02:55.16 | Beladona | vmware will not be able to run 3d fast |
| 02:55.19 | GenNMX | Beladona: Can you get full surround sound out of Cedega? |
| 02:55.20 | cladhaire | not vmware |
| 02:55.22 | Tain | I'm looking at it more for the server market. |
| 02:55.22 | Legorol | XP isn't anywhere near as unstable as people think it is |
| 02:55.23 | cladhaire | .. the other one. |
| 02:55.25 | pagefault | Beladona, yeah it can |
| 02:55.28 | Beladona | if they do, I will be thoroughly surprised |
| 02:55.32 | Legorol | what gives it instability is the clueless endusers installing millions of crap |
| 02:55.33 | Tain | Anything is as unstable as you make it. |
| 02:55.40 | Beladona | vmware is an emulator |
| 02:55.46 | Ktron | Beladona, which distrib came with cedega? |
| 02:55.46 | pagefault | you can enable it in WS 5.5 but it currently only works with some applications |
| 02:55.55 | Tain | XP is less unstable in a way because it doesn't let you easily change settings. |
| 02:55.55 | pagefault | vmware isn't an emulator, it's a virtual machine |
| 02:55.59 | Legorol | the stability comparisons between XP and Linux tend to be unfair because XP is used by clueless users most of the time, whereas Linux users are somewhat computer aware |
| 02:55.59 | Beladona | none, I downloaded it |
| 02:56.15 | Tain | err I mean more stable in a way |
| 02:56.21 | Legorol | Tain is correct, it's only as stable as you make it |
| 02:56.22 | Iriel | Personally, I find windows ages worse than linux. |
| 02:56.26 | Beladona | ok pagefault, do some benchmarking and let me know |
| 02:56.40 | Corrodias | i'll tell you another undocumented change in either 1.9 or, more likely, 1.9.1 |
| 02:56.46 | pagefault | benchmarking what? |
| 02:56.48 | Iriel | But I also know Unix/Linux a whole lot better than windows |
| 02:56.51 | Corrodias | you now stay in combat for about 6 seconds after you kill your target |
| 02:56.52 | Beladona | I refuse to believe an app like Qemu or vmware could ever match 3d performance of an api layer or straight os |
| 02:56.57 | Corrodias | used to be around 3 |
| 02:56.58 | GenNMX | To XP's defense, there are a LOT of options and tweaks most *nix purists don't know about for XP. |
| 02:57.05 | Ktron | Legorol, I kill XP in about 3 months-- 3 months of installing/unistalling and constant use, and XP starts doing crappy things, like, for example, last time I could no longer copy and paste text/files/anything |
| 02:57.09 | Legorol | Iriel, i don't know about how Linux ages, but you are right that XP ages pretty badly |
| 02:57.11 | pagefault | why? cedega already does that? |
| 02:57.17 | Legorol | you prolly need to do a format c: once every year |
| 02:57.18 | Tain | That isn't the point, nor claim Beladona |
| 02:57.21 | pagefault | what do you think it's doing to the direct3d calls |
| 02:57.26 | Corrodias | amazing :o |
| 02:57.36 | GenNMX | They're just buried and oddly placed. |
| 02:57.41 | Corrodias | my windows XP has gone for 4 years without developing much in the way of new quirks |
| 02:57.45 | Iriel | I've had linux boxes with uptimes close to a year |
| 02:57.46 | Beladona | ceedga isn't nearly the same animal as vmware |
| 02:57.50 | Iriel | (not that that's an ideal situation) |
| 02:57.56 | pagefault | you can apply the same concept to vmware |
| 02:58.01 | Legorol | GenNMX has a point too, XP has many hidden options that Linux users don't know about, so they just think XP is uncofigurable |
| 02:58.02 | Beladona | ok |
| 02:58.27 | Legorol | I have a prime example of that, which is that there is a complete, fully customizable NAT router service hidden in XP, configurable purely from command line |
| 02:58.28 | GenNMX | I've never had problems with my XP install either, but I work on both Windows and Linux machines for a living. |
| 02:58.33 | pagefault | the 3d driver in the guest OS is just a direct3d to opengl wrapper like cedega is |
| 02:58.42 | pagefault | so you can achieve near full 3d performance |
| 02:58.54 | Ktron | I think I'm an extreme user though, I really do massacre my windows installations-- I update things, work with configuration files, run like a minimum of 4 major applications simultaneously all of the time, tweak registries and so on... |
| 02:58.57 | Tain | I just run separate systems with XP and Linux and use the right tool for the job. |
| 02:59.09 | Beladona | they aren't there yet |
| 02:59.30 | GenNMX | And I even try to work solely as a Limited user, only using the "Superuser" for installing applications. |
| 02:59.32 | Legorol | I think XP suffers from more of a "complexity" problem than Linux |
| 02:59.35 | Ktron | There's a lot of small features I try to get for XP that I miss from some Linux window managers... I like magnetic windows, for example, its small, but to me, necessary |
| 03:00.15 | pagefault | Ktron, thats mainly because there are too many WM's and there is no standard way they all communicate with eachother |
| 03:00.21 | Corrodias | what is "magnetic windows"? |
| 03:00.21 | Legorol | What really scares me is the amount of grime on an average XP machine.. |
| 03:00.27 | Beladona | snap to |
| 03:00.32 | Corrodias | oh i hate that! |
| 03:00.34 | AnduinLothar | lol, my keyboard needs cleaning |
| 03:00.35 | Legorol | i have had to clean up other average users machines in the past on several occasions |
| 03:00.41 | Legorol | full of spyware, viruses whatnots |
| 03:00.45 | Ktron | pagefault, I mean that linux has it and windows doesn't w/o a helping program |
| 03:01.00 | Corrodias | i hate when a program refuses to let me put a window where i want it just beacuse it's too close to another one |
| 03:01.22 | AnduinLothar | should be a temp disable key |
| 03:01.43 | Legorol | I actually think that XP is the first satisfactory version of Windows that MS has made |
| 03:01.48 | GenNMX | Ktron: I bet you can rig up something like that with one of the *nix WMs, but again, that involves advanced features. |
| 03:01.50 | Ktron | You don't like snaps? I love snaps ;)... And Theming, I have a tweak installed to fix theming... I love using linux terminals too, MSDOS is no where near as nice as bash... I like the fuzzy clocks, the screensavers... its all the little linux things I love |
| 03:02.09 | pagefault | xscreensaver rules |
| 03:02.12 | Legorol | XP hides most complexity from a beginner computer user, presenting them with a simple interface, but allows the power user to bury deep beneath as much as they like |
| 03:02.13 | AnduinLothar | ah so i figured out what was fubaring mout equip on Wardrobe, turns out TitanRider auto-scans ur inventory and equips your riding enchanted equipment even if you dont have it on the titan bar |
| 03:02.35 | Ktron | GenNMX, I found a program called AllSnap Beta that gives me magnetic windows in XP, but I hate having a list of all these little helper apps to make my OS function how I want it to ;) |
| 03:02.44 | Codayus | Heh |
| 03:02.49 | Iriel | I'm off, ttyal. |
| 03:02.50 | Codayus | Titan FTL? |
| 03:03.05 | AnduinLothar | ya titan has too many builtins not that eat resources |
| 03:03.08 | GenNMX | I agree Legorol, but again to the *nix community's defense, all Microsoft really did was say "OK, we admit making an Operating System based on DOS was stupid and we'll just use NT." |
| 03:03.09 | AnduinLothar | now* |
| 03:03.13 | Legorol | Ktron, the stuff you just listed are mostly UI elements, i.e. fluff. I don't think it fundamentally enters in a discussion of, say, OS stability |
| 03:03.23 | Tain | I only got a small way through reading the Titan source before giving up before insanity took hold. |
| 03:03.29 | Ktron | Legorol, either I don't know enough about XP, but I feel like burrowing in to XP, you either run into a lack of functionality or 'locked' functionality pretty quickly... XP is definitely a much more useful OS for the masses as of yet |
| 03:03.35 | Legorol | GenNMX, that's half the story, the other half is the interface changes from 2K to XP |
| 03:03.39 | AnduinLothar | tain, it's not that bad. it's just not smart |
| 03:04.01 | GenNMX | Legorol: Well yeah, they had to make it look pretty and steal from Macintosh's designs again ;) |
| 03:04.08 | Legorol | yes |
| 03:04.10 | Beladona | Legorol, those small features are as important as menu shadows, and animations that are a default part of xp. They just didn't make it a feature at the time |
| 03:04.20 | AnduinLothar | ya, hell even the xBox 360 looks like a mac |
| 03:04.21 | Tain | I think it's that bad. The functions defined for a single line, the ternary (hah!) function that's used 27 times |
| 03:04.29 | Tain | The logic is just... illogical. |
| 03:04.34 | Legorol | I really beleive that some of the basis of comparison between XP and Linux comes from the attitude and knowledge level of hte users, rather than actual OS features |
| 03:04.44 | Legorol | e.g. those that use Linux are much more likely to want to tweak their interface |
| 03:04.45 | Ktron | Legorol, I thought it was nearly proven fact that linux's in general have better stability than XP... I was arguing that linux has better fluff too-- I think the only real advantage to windows these days are familiarity (people don't know what to do without C:\) and compatibility |
| 03:04.51 | Legorol | hence Linux's interface is much more tweakable |
| 03:04.59 | Corrodias | "familiarity" |
| 03:05.15 | Beladona | people are USED to windows |
| 03:05.28 | Corrodias | and the fact that i detest having to scroll through a text file and delve through arcane documentation just to change a setting. thank you, linux. |
| 03:05.28 | AnduinLothar | ya and we all know users suck |
| 03:05.36 | Legorol | familiarity and "C:" don't mix |
| 03:05.42 | Legorol | 99.9% of XP users have no idea what C:\ is |
| 03:05.43 | Beladona | vista will be different enough to make people actually look around a little more |
| 03:05.48 | Beladona | (hopefully) |
| 03:05.59 | Ktron | Corrodias, bah, you don't like text files, I don't like regedit ;) |
| 03:06.04 | Tain | Yay for statistics pulled out of nowhere. |
| 03:06.06 | Corrodias | vista? who is going to get vista? |
| 03:06.12 | Corrodias | it doesn't have anything new, does it? |
| 03:06.13 | Beladona | lots of people |
| 03:06.13 | AnduinLothar | lol, at least when you name ur drive on mac it's only refrenced by it's name everywhere |
| 03:06.18 | Legorol | Tain, exactly ;-) |
| 03:06.29 | GenNMX | Do you know what happens when you put a Windows expert in the same channel as a Linux expert? You get two guys screaming at each other about the features of their own operating systems, about marketing, etc. without really knowing about each other's systems. |
| 03:06.31 | Beladona | personally I don't like vista |
| 03:06.40 | Ktron | Legorol, no, no way, maybe I'm too computer sheltered but I feel like at least 80% of windows users no what the 'C drive' is |
| 03:06.41 | Tain | It's a holy war, GenNMX |
| 03:06.44 | Beladona | they changed the fundamental parts of the OS that windows users are used to |
| 03:06.45 | Tain | There's no need for fact. |
| 03:06.45 | Corrodias | as i understand, they took everything interesting out of Vista |
| 03:07.00 | Tain | Define interesting, Corrodias |
| 03:07.06 | AnduinLothar | like the filesystem.. |
| 03:07.17 | Beladona | the new "dashboard" and "panels" ui they are going with is just stupid inmho |
| 03:07.22 | AnduinLothar | they bailed on writing a new filesystem.. that's so lame |
| 03:07.28 | Legorol | well i remember days of Linux where there wasn't even a GUI yet.. |
| 03:07.28 | GenNMX | Tain: OK, how about 90% of the callers when I was working tech support for some of the biggest gaming companies in the world didn't know what the command prompt was and what it was for? And I worked for them for about 3 years. |
| 03:07.29 | Beladona | no they are still doing it |
| 03:07.35 | Legorol | i have been using Linux on and off since |
| 03:07.43 | Beladona | it is just going to be after the fact, and an addon to winxp as well as vista |
| 03:07.53 | Legorol | Linux's popularity grew as it stole the idea of GUI from Macs and Windows |
| 03:08.06 | Beladona | stole? |
| 03:08.12 | Beladona | like windows did with mac? |
| 03:08.12 | Legorol | well, ok, that's too harsh |
| 03:08.16 | AnduinLothar | and then u got you silly people that ENJOY using slash commands.. |
| 03:08.16 | Legorol | yes Beladona |
| 03:08.19 | Beladona | lol |
| 03:08.20 | GenNMX | Legorol: No, Unix GUIs predate Windows and Macintoshes. |
| 03:08.29 | Legorol | GenNMX, that's correct |
| 03:08.31 | Legorol | but not Linux |
| 03:08.31 | Tain | Legorol. Have you looked at the Linux GUIs? They've made a point to differentiate themselves from Windows and Mac |
| 03:08.40 | Legorol | yes i use it for a living |
| 03:08.41 | GenNMX | Tain: *cough* KDE |
| 03:08.42 | Legorol | unfortunately ;-) |
| 03:08.43 | Tain | Except for the ones like fvwm95 |
| 03:08.59 | Legorol | Seriously guys, i am not saying XP is better or worse than Linux |
| 03:09.03 | Ktron | lol, here we go: :) ----->> http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html |
| 03:09.11 | Legorol | Linux is doing great, and is getting more and more users away from XP |
| 03:09.13 | Legorol | that's a good thing |
| 03:09.23 | Beladona | I am of the mind that everything should be command line first, and gui second |
| 03:09.25 | Legorol | part of it is that it has received a decent GUI, comparable to Windows |
| 03:09.26 | GenNMX | Ktron: Yeah that's the solution, but its development has been slow/stalled for a looong time. |
| 03:09.32 | Beladona | which is probably why I like linux |
| 03:09.33 | Maldivia | go fluxbox ! |
| 03:09.37 | Ktron | fluxbox is fun |
| 03:09.39 | Legorol | Beladona, i prefer the other way round, but it's just that, a preference |
| 03:09.46 | Ktron | Beladona, I agree, command line first, gui second |
| 03:09.48 | AnduinLothar | and on the topic of competition, which is better.... Cosmos or CT or Ace (and company) |
| 03:09.51 | Tain | This is why I hate these discussions. I need to bow out because I'm a petty person and I'll start flinging insults at others ignorance. |
| 03:09.51 | Legorol | i can operate much faster with one hand on mouse and other on keyboard, than with endless typing |
| 03:10.07 | Legorol | as i said, it's all a preference thing, based on my previous experience/learning etc. |
| 03:10.15 | Ktron | AnduinLothar, Ace ftw, CT ftm, Cosmos ftl |
| 03:10.19 | Legorol | btw, i have used Linux before i have used Windows 3.0 ;-) |
| 03:10.20 | AnduinLothar | GUI >> command line |
| 03:10.20 | Beladona | thats you |
| 03:10.22 | Legorol | but that was a long time ago |
| 03:10.26 | Beladona | but I type like a torando |
| 03:10.34 | GenNMX | gon fo -er ln "in" << more >> less : Beladona && none < nll |
| 03:10.53 | pagefault | I only use my mouse in games |
| 03:10.58 | AnduinLothar | O.o |
| 03:10.59 | pagefault | it's keyboard all the rest of the time |
| 03:10.59 | Legorol | Beladona, i type pretty fast too, it's not my typing speed |
| 03:11.02 | Ktron | Truthfully, I really just want to see at least two or three major, roughly equal share of the market, competitors |
| 03:11.07 | Legorol | it's somehow that i don't have the memory necessary to remember what to type |
| 03:11.17 | Legorol | in Linux i find i can operate fast with typing if i remember lots of facts |
| 03:11.18 | GenNMX | Yes Ktron, that's the REAL discussion. |
| 03:11.23 | Legorol | with a GUI i have "visual" clues that guide me |
| 03:11.25 | Beladona | you can't argue this though |
| 03:11.29 | Beladona | MS needs competition |
| 03:11.29 | Ktron | I want when linux comes up with a new feature, windows is pressured into doing so too, and vice versa |
| 03:11.32 | Beladona | more of it |
| 03:11.33 | GenNMX | It's not about how "crappy" XP is. It's about how Microsoft pretty much has a monopoly. |
| 03:11.34 | pagefault | we need DR. DOS back |
| 03:11.34 | Legorol | but it is just preference |
| 03:11.41 | Legorol | Beladona, yes i totally agree, MS needs competition |
| 03:11.49 | AnduinLothar | whereas my memory is shit, but i can figure out what i need to do repeatedly with lightening speed |
| 03:11.50 | Beladona | competition is how things get done |
| 03:11.53 | GenNMX | Yes Beladona, no one can argue that. That's the real point of discussion with Linux vs MS. |
| 03:11.59 | Beladona | otherwise you end up with ie that sat stagnant for years |
| 03:12.17 | Legorol | GenNMX, it isn't the real point of discussion with Linux vs. XP, but it becomes it unfortunately |
| 03:12.20 | Ktron | yep, competition keeps AMD and Intel, ATI and Nvidia fighting forward |
| 03:12.26 | Legorol | too many Linux lovers are anti-XP because they are anti-MS |
| 03:12.36 | Legorol | i beleive that MS is a bunch of pigs, but XP is a great product |
| 03:12.38 | Legorol | what gives? |
| 03:12.39 | Beladona | I use XP |
| 03:12.43 | Beladona | on my other machine |
| 03:12.47 | pagefault | bill gates is a good business man |
| 03:12.51 | pagefault | you have to give him that |
| 03:12.58 | GenNMX | It's not just Microsoft. A LOT of technology companies have been sticking it to people since PCs first came out because the people either don't know any better, or can't get better service elsewhere. |
| 03:13.00 | Beladona | no his business men are good business men |
| 03:13.02 | Ktron | Heh, I also have something against XP's help-- as in, they don't |
| 03:13.04 | AnduinLothar | good businessmen annoy the hell out of me |
| 03:13.04 | Legorol | and mind you, his foundation has sponsored me through university |
| 03:13.11 | GenNMX | Legorol: I mean, that SHOULD be the only viable source of discussion,. |
| 03:13.12 | Tain | That's why the old saying goes, "People use Linux because they're anti-Microsoft. People use BSD because they're pro-unix." :) |
| 03:13.12 | Legorol | nevertheless MS is crap |
| 03:13.24 | Ktron | I want to see Adobe pressured too, Adobe needs some good competition |
| 03:13.30 | Legorol | lol Tain |
| 03:13.32 | Beladona | yeah good luck with that |
| 03:13.38 | Beladona | since they bought Macromedia |
| 03:13.48 | AnduinLothar | apples been trying to compete with adobe, but it's not direct |
| 03:13.50 | pagefault | gimp vs photoshop lol |
| 03:14.06 | Ktron | yeah, not to mention PDFs vs.... postscript I guess |
| 03:14.14 | GenNMX | Most of Windows crashes are because of cheap developers who'd rather buy up lowgrade Asian programmers at 3 cents per day then make good, stable drivers. Because they know THAT is the "Microsoft Standard", and people will think the Operating System is the cause. |
| 03:14.27 | Tain | GIMP is amazing. |
| 03:14.28 | pagefault | i'm still waiting for a good open source pdf reader |
| 03:14.31 | pagefault | but adobe's is still the best |
| 03:14.33 | Ktron | I like GIMP |
| 03:14.46 | Beladona | me 2 |
| 03:14.51 | Ktron | But Tain, GIMP heh, doesn't in any way scare photoshop yet |
| 03:15.11 | GenNMX | GIMP doesn't scare Photoshop, hell, Photoshop CAME from GIMP. |
| 03:15.12 | Beladona | open source has a harder time competing with retail products than retail vs retail does |
| 03:15.17 | AnduinLothar | I fr prefer Preview to Acrobat Reader, but it's not open source |
| 03:15.25 | Ktron | There's 3DS and Maya competing which is good |
| 03:15.25 | Tain | People who use PhotoShop always say that because GIMP does things differently. |
| 03:15.43 | Tain | You can't sit a PS person down with GIMP. |
| 03:15.53 | pagefault | thats like saying you like apples because they taste different than oranges |
| 03:15.55 | Codayus | Acrobat Reader is probably responsible for more hostility and resistance to the PDF format than anything else. |
| 03:15.56 | Tain | They just don't, "get it" |
| 03:16.00 | Codayus | Damn, the program sucks... |
| 03:16.02 | Ktron | There's Gimpshop, which helps make the ui a little more PS friendly |
| 03:16.27 | GenNMX | pagefault: More like PS is a sliced apple rather then uncut. It's a friendlier interface. |
| 03:16.28 | AnduinLothar | well actually i like apples cause they have a different texture than oranges.. |
| 03:16.48 | Tain | I only like Granny Smith apples. |
| 03:16.48 | AnduinLothar | i like orange juice, I just dont like oranges |
| 03:16.50 | Legorol | nah, it's all the same .blp, just different TexCoords |
| 03:17.31 | Ktron | I can't think of any other companies besides Adobe and MS which really dominate in at least one software type |
| 03:17.32 | AnduinLothar | lol someone in my crap guild just said "I <3 You" was offensive |
| 03:17.51 | Codayus | Ktron: Autodesk. |
| 03:17.59 | Ktron | Codayus, at what? CAD? |
| 03:18.23 | Ktron | Codayus, There's ProEngineer which gets used a lot, and Solidworks, which are both kind of Inventor/CAD competition |
| 03:18.41 | GenNMX | Ktron: Apple... |
| 03:18.41 | Tain | The most horrible joke ever? |
| 03:18.43 | Codayus | In some areas, yes. Also some segments of 3D modeling/animation. |
| 03:19.14 | Ktron | ProE and Solidworks both can do some animation as welll... I don't feel like Autodesk has a deathgrip yet anyway |
| 03:19.17 | Codayus | They now own 3D Studio Max and Maya. |
| 03:19.23 | AnduinLothar | O.o China banned Wikipedia... |
| 03:19.25 | GenNMX | Can't we also say 3D Studios is close with 3DsMax? |
| 03:19.27 | Ktron | Apple doesn't count, they make their own computers lol |
| 03:19.29 | Tain | What do you say to a woman with two black eyes? |
| 03:19.31 | Ktron | China BANNED WIKIPEDIA?? |
| 03:19.46 | Tain | Nothing, you already told her twice. |
| 03:19.46 | GenNMX | China bans a lot of stuff on the Internet, lookup the "Great Firewall of China" |
| 03:19.49 | Ktron | Codayus, they own both? heh.... that could be a problem |
| 03:19.54 | AnduinLothar | that's what slashdot says. and i always believe slashdot cause im a tool |
| 03:20.35 | Codayus | They just bought Maya, yeah. They already had a very solid lock on 3d modeling for games - that's now stronger, and they can add a lot of movie stuff too. |
| 03:20.47 | AnduinLothar | uh oh Tem chrashed irc |
| 03:20.50 | GenNMX | Ktron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall_of_China |
| 03:20.55 | GenNMX | Just for irony |
| 03:21.09 | Codayus | And while there are other CAD packages out there, I've heard AutoCAD is ubiquitous, especially in the US and in some industries. Not my field; can't really comment. |
| 03:21.42 | GenNMX | You know, I, for one, hope everyone switches to Linux. Since I work in first response computer repair. |
| 03:21.48 | GenNMX | Mo money! |
| 03:22.18 | Tain | I really don't care what people switch to. |
| 03:22.25 | Tain | As long as I can be employed to pay my bills. |
| 03:24.22 | Tain | If everyone in the world starts running BeOS I'll become an expert to get paid. |
| 03:24.41 | GenNMX | For Linux lovers: A few years ago, the Indian Government announced they were going to switch all their computers over to Linux. Bill Gates himself immediately flew over and offered them about 5 billion dollars to stay with Windows. The Indian Government's new plan: Take Gates's money and "stay with Windows"...for 1 more year. |
| 03:25.06 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 03:25.16 | Tain | A sound business decision. |
| 03:25.34 | AnduinLothar | I'd use windows for $5 billion |
| 03:26.04 | AnduinLothar | I'd even force my family, children and grandchildren to use windows for $5 billion |
| 03:26.07 | GenNMX | Yes yes, we'd all dance naked and give Pope a hummer for $5 billion, so using Windows isn't too far off. |
| 03:26.15 | Tain | I'd never touch a computer again for $5 billion. |
| 03:26.24 | AnduinLothar | mmm, dunnon bout that one |
| 03:26.31 | Tain | I would. |
| 03:26.38 | GenNMX | Tain: What would you do with the $5 billion except buy cool ass computer equipment? |
| 03:26.50 | Tain | GenNMX: Hookers. |
| 03:27.23 | pagefault | clean ones I hope |
| 03:27.47 | GenNMX | So your plan with $5 billion is to perform illegal sex acts? Usually people do the illegal stuff to get the money in the first place, not the other way around ;) |
| 03:27.47 | AnduinLothar | does that mean I can't voice activate and opperate a computer based machine and program on paper with a scanner? |
| 03:27.54 | Tain | ehn whatever, $5 billion buys a lot of medical care. |
| 03:27.55 | GenNMX | pagefault: Well they're high-priced, of course. |
| 03:28.13 | Tain | What's the use of having that much money if you cant' use it to break the law? |
| 03:28.22 | GenNMX | They come with rabies shots at $500 a pop. |
| 03:28.28 | AnduinLothar | buy an island, make your own law |
| 03:28.51 | pagefault | it's stupid it's illegal anyway |
| 03:28.52 | GenNMX | Or you could abandon all reality like many rich and make your own real-life World of Warcraft game. |
| 03:28.57 | pagefault | better to make it safe |
| 03:29.00 | pagefault | since people will do it anyway |
| 03:29.45 | GenNMX | Yes, that's what I would do with $5 billion -- abandon all reality and do crazy or at least incredibly eccentric things. |
| 03:30.01 | Ktron | BeOS FTW |
| 03:30.09 | Ktron | long live yellow ;) |
| 03:30.19 | GenNMX | If you're still using BeOS, you've already abandoned all reality right there! |
| 03:32.38 | Ktron | heh, wasn't there a remake some did after the BeOS stuff because open-source? that had like super amazing video play back abilities? |
| 03:33.51 | AnduinLothar | someone started the world event on Kil'Jaeden |
| 03:34.21 | AnduinLothar | "Eranikus, Tyrant of the Dream, has entered our world." |
| 03:34.44 | Ktron | Already? |
| 03:35.36 | AnduinLothar | not too surprising, oldest pvp server. we have 10 or more guilds doing BWL |
| 03:36.04 | Ktron | that's true... I didn't realize |
| 03:36.10 | Ktron | Kil'Jaeden was one of the first servers |
| 03:36.48 | Tain | It's happened on a bunch of servers already. |
| 03:36.56 | AnduinLothar | I picked KJ cause it had the highest pop at 2am opennign night |
| 03:37.45 | Legorol | my server is 7th in the AQ war effort :( |
| 03:37.48 | Legorol | that is so so sad |
| 03:37.57 | Legorol | it's going to be over before it even gets really rolling |
| 03:38.04 | Legorol | i won't have much chance to contribute and farm rep |
| 03:38.09 | Ktron | heh, do we know whose in first? |
| 03:38.16 | Legorol | check the rankings page |
| 03:38.49 | Legorol | Surprisingly enough non-English speaking realms in EU seem to be doing better than English ones |
| 03:39.42 | Legorol | you can get to it from main wow page |
| 03:39.53 | AnduinLothar | lol, there are 3 KJ Alliance BWL raids going on right now |
| 03:39.53 | Ktron | got it |
| 03:40.04 | Legorol | the big graphics banner right in the center |
| 03:40.25 | Corrodias | i think we only have 3, maybe 4 guilds on ET that can do BWL |
| 03:40.31 | Legorol | lol, the bottom French server has handed in a grandtotal of 40 Baked Salmons |
| 03:40.48 | Tain | The French know you don't bake salmon. |
| 03:40.57 | Ktron | Medivh, Mannoroth, Proudmore, Alleria, Hellscream, then my first server Zul'jin |
| 03:42.04 | Ktron | that's badass heh... you know, I haven't played for a while... I should |
| 03:42.20 | Tain | Nah, why start now? |
| 03:42.40 | Legorol | what annoyed me a tiny bit is that my server has completed the thorium bars before i had a chance to log the quest in QuestHistory |
| 03:42.50 | Ktron | because I could farm some leather for the war effort and feel cool |
| 03:43.00 | Legorol | and get rep for it, Ktron! |
| 03:43.03 | Legorol | that much closer to exalted |
| 03:43.12 | Legorol | or cool random rewards |
| 03:43.18 | Legorol | someone got a badass blue gun |
| 03:43.27 | Ktron | heh, I'll be the first level 29 exhalted, ever! |
| 03:43.43 | Corrodias | is there a bug related to tradeskills around level 225? |
| 03:43.44 | Legorol | not impossible.. how many leathers still missing? |
| 03:44.05 | Ktron | on my server? there's 25540 out of 180000 light leather |
| 03:44.19 | AnduinLothar | we maxed thorium a few days ago on KJ wonder what else we still need |
| 03:44.25 | Ktron | no wait |
| 03:44.46 | Ktron | horde can't hand in light leather? |
| 03:44.52 | Corrodias | nope |
| 03:45.26 | Ktron | or even medium... well, nevermind, I'm useless |
| 03:48.29 | Legorol | OMG, read this guys: |
| 03:48.30 | Legorol | https://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=769843&p=1&tmp=1#post769843 |
| 03:49.04 | Legorol | This is insane, Blizzard is taking about half of all English EU servers offline with 7 hours notice |
| 03:49.11 | Legorol | for at least 24 hours, possibly more |
| 03:49.18 | pagefault | europe gets better service than north america |
| 03:49.29 | Legorol | this is ridiculous at best |
| 03:49.39 | Legorol | and they want to compensate with a couple of days of time extension |
| 03:49.48 | pagefault | be happy they are doing anything about lag for you guys |
| 03:49.56 | Legorol | what if i've organized a WoW LAN party for the past few weeks for that day? |
| 03:49.57 | Legorol | gah |
| 03:50.10 | pagefault | they can do that when you agreed to their TOS |
| 03:50.11 | Legorol | i had no problem with lag |
| 03:50.16 | Legorol | pagefault, i know |
| 03:50.19 | Legorol | it's still infuriating |
| 03:50.25 | AnduinLothar | why would you play wow at a lan party? |
| 03:50.30 | Legorol | i know have to check if i even have a char on a server that's not moving |
| 03:50.34 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: for atmosphere |
| 03:50.40 | Legorol | i like to play WoW with more than 1 person |
| 03:50.51 | Legorol | no need for teamspeak, great partying |
| 03:50.58 | AnduinLothar | you'd need everyone to already have high lvl chars on the same server |
| 03:51.19 | Legorol | and of course there is no compensation for the lost auction deposits |
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| 03:53.13 | AnduinLothar | why look. they alldied and restarted it. "Eranikus, Tyrant of the Dream, has entered our world." |
| 03:54.33 | Guillotine | haha. prepare for a server crash |
| 03:55.11 | Corrodias | i hope i get to participate in that event some day. i hope they don't disable it when AQ is open |
| 03:55.31 | Fanook | i just took a 5 hour nap, and i have no idea why |
| 03:55.41 | AnduinLothar | cause you were tired |
| 03:58.45 | Guillotine | I've always wondered... what constitutes an 'active character' when it comes to paly-time extensions? Should I make a char on every server and log into them all once a week to get maximum free time? |
| 04:00.47 | Tain | You mean rested exp bonus? |
| 04:02.16 | Guillotine | no |
| 04:02.20 | Guillotine | play time extension |
| 04:02.22 | Guillotine | free days |
| 04:03.12 | Tain | uh oh |
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| 04:21.37 | Cairenn | hey slouken :) |
| 04:21.39 | slouken | I'll probably lose connection ... dang deadlock |
| 04:22.30 | AnduinLothar | LA freeways? |
| 04:22.31 | Tain | Mornin slouken |
| 04:22.46 | AnduinLothar | must be driving on the % |
| 04:22.48 | AnduinLothar | 5* |
| 04:22.59 | Iriel | IRC and driving, that'd be impressive |
| 04:23.11 | Iriel | or hazardous |
| 04:23.14 | Iriel | or both! |
| 04:23.17 | AnduinLothar | Ya, i need to rig a computer to a project on my windshield |
| 04:23.37 | Tain | I've done AIM and driving. I don't recommend it. |
| 04:23.49 | AnduinLothar | it's been done. but i'd need a spare computer, and a spare projector, and a spare car.. |
| 04:24.09 | Iriel | the technical feasibility wasn't really what I was remarking on 8-) |
| 04:24.20 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 04:24.31 | slouken | No, game |
| 04:24.37 | Iriel | though I guess text->voice->text and it'd be almost like a cellphone. |
| 04:24.47 | AnduinLothar | long as u can glue a FrogPad to your stearing wheel |
| 04:25.13 | Tain | I don't want to see what voice controlled WoW would be like. |
| 04:25.22 | Tain | "Left! left more! Attack! Sinister STrike! |
| 04:26.23 | AnduinLothar | Sinister Strike! No, I said Sinister STrike! S-I-N-I-S-T-E-R Space S-T-R-I-K-E |
| 04:26.30 | Tain | oooh that enters into a whole new world. Voice recorder bots. |
| 04:27.00 | Cairenn | personally, I want to see WoW hooked up to this: http://www.fpgamerunner.com/index.php |
| 04:27.36 | AnduinLothar | O.o my poor feet |
| 04:27.47 | Iriel | I've tried gaming on a treadmill before, I almost fell off. |
| 04:27.54 | Cairenn | hehehehe |
| 04:28.01 | Tain | That simply won't work for those six hour raids. |
| 04:28.02 | Fanook | i notice all the people in their screenshots are like athletes :) |
| 04:28.03 | Iriel | though it didn't have the nifty steering wheel thing this one does |
| 04:28.16 | AnduinLothar | I've done vr on a two directional radmil, hard to not fall down |
| 04:28.19 | Tain | "Why isn't he attacking? Cardiac arrest." |
| 04:28.19 | Cairenn | right now it's just for FPSs, but I think it'd be neat for MMOs too |
| 04:29.42 | GenNMX | Voice-controlled WoW would be hell..."Attack the 'Solomance' Wizard. I said the SOLOmance Wizard! SOLOMANCE SOOOLOOOMANCE!" Vent Team: "Uhhh, it's pronounced SCHOLOmance." |
| 04:29.59 | Iriel | my read of the FAQ's on that site lead me to believe you could play wow on it already |
| 04:30.19 | Tain | Yeah but think about the questions you'll get at work. |
| 04:30.22 | GenNMX | Yeah, I bet you can, but it wouldn't be pretty. |
| 04:30.48 | Tain | "We notice you call home and leave messages on your ansering machine 45 times a day." |
| 04:30.51 | Cairenn | well, I think that there are a lot of people playing MMOs (and FPSs for that matter) that could probably desperately use the exercise |
| 04:31.04 | Tain | "Well yeah but I'm just four "bubbles" away from 60.." |
| 04:32.13 | Tain | There were just studies completed Cair saying that a lot of overweight people don't want to lose weight. they're perfecly happy the way they are, if society didn't buy into the ad agencies idea of heroin thin beauty. |
| 04:32.16 | AnduinLothar | whoever thought up those bubbles was a genious |
| 04:32.38 | Cairenn | who said anything about "heroin thin beauty" |
| 04:32.45 | Cairenn | wasn't me |
| 04:33.10 | Cairenn | and there is a difference between being overweight and being desperately out of shape :p |
| 04:33.46 | AnduinLothar | there was some bug i was gonna report to slouken... but thankfully for him. I've forgotten what it was |
| 04:34.40 | Tain | It's still someone's choice if they have no problem being desperately out of shape. |
| 04:35.32 | Cairenn | did I say it wasn't? what I said was, and I quote, "there are a lot of people playing that could probably desperately use the exercise" ... |
| 04:36.08 | Cairenn | if they choose not to, that is their business, but it doesn't change the fact that they "could use" it |
| 04:36.14 | Tain | I guess I just interpret, "desperately use" differently then. |
| 04:36.31 | GenNMX | It's better to talk about being "dangerously out of shape". A lot of companies make it seem being a little overweight means you'll die when you're 60. |
| 04:37.17 | Tain | I guess I just look at it as if someone is happy it doesn't matter. |
| 04:37.19 | Cairenn | being a bit overweight, like being a bit underweight, doesn't necessarily mean you are going to die at 60, anyone with 1/2 a brain in their head knows that |
| 04:37.58 | Tain | Cairenn: I'd tend to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that people are constantly huting themselves with anorexia and bolemia. |
| 04:38.25 | Cairenn | and there are lots of people in great physical shape that keel over and die of heart attacks and strokes, too ... genetics play a factor as well |
| 04:38.30 | Tain | People are being made to think that they have to be thin to be beautiful. |
| 04:38.34 | GenNMX | Tain: It doesn't bode well for society if a majority of it is unhealthy -- either overweight, or poisoned by alchohol and/or tobbaco, or poisoned in the mind by the media and what-not developing horrible illnesses. |
| 04:38.39 | Tain | And I personally disagree. |
| 04:39.04 | GenNMX | Like bolemia, anarexoria, etc. |
| 04:39.07 | Tain | GenNMX: Yes, but I personally have no problem with the thinning of the herd. |
| 04:39.35 | AnduinLothar | Wardrobe-AL 1.41 --> WoWI |
| 04:39.47 | AnduinLothar | Also on Curse |
| 04:40.30 | GenNMX | Tain: I'm going to have to restrain myself here. So I guess you think it's OK for heavily depressed people to commit suicide? |
| 04:40.40 | Tain | But it's probably just me. I tend to agree with the words of Queen who said, "Fat bottom girls you make the rocking world go 'round." |
| 04:40.57 | Tain | GenNMX: I don't care what they do. |
| 04:41.42 | Tain | People who commit suicide couldn't deal with whatever was going on, I hope they are in a better place for themselves. |
| 04:42.03 | GenNMX | Tain: Then why have you continued with a conversation on global issues if you don't care? |
| 04:42.39 | Cairenn | except you are disagreeing with ... no one in channel .... no one in here has said that everyone needs to be thin to be beautiful ... what I said, and I quote, "there are a lot of people playing that could probably desperately use the exercise" ... |
| 04:43.01 | Tain | I'm not sure that saying I don't care what a specific instance of people doing translates into all global issues. |
| 04:43.39 | Tain | Alright Cairenn, I assumed a lot in what you mean by, "desperately need the exercise" then. |
| 04:44.13 | Tain | I tend to be resistant against anyone saying what anyone else needs. |
| 04:45.19 | Tain | However, I'm also a bitter, jaded bastard so take that into account with any argument I may make. |
| 04:45.37 | GenNMX | It's just knowledge, Tain. Some of it happens to be wrong in the case of "you must be thin to be beautiful". |
| 04:45.56 | Cairenn | well, I'm a cranky emotional female (aka bitch), so I guess we make a good pair :p |
| 04:46.13 | GenNMX | But if you go to a weight doctor and they tell you what diet you should be using, that isn't "the doctor telling you what to do", that is knowledge you are gaining about what diet is appropriate for you. |
| 04:46.47 | GenNMX | The problem is people's guillability and inability to apply proper critical reasoning to information. |
| 04:48.27 | Cairenn | and Tain, I'm sorry, but fat or thin - if someone (without some form of physical handicap) can't get up out of their chair, walk to the fridge, grab a bottle of water and walk back to their chair without wheezing like a broken down set of bellows, then they need some exercise |
| 04:49.05 | GenNMX | Cairenn: What if they just ate about 50 pretzels? |
| 04:49.13 | GenNMX | I have bad habits... |
| 04:49.17 | Cairenn | hehehehe |
| 04:50.26 | Cairenn | GenNMX: in which case they need the exercise to get rid of the pretzels ;) |
| 04:50.37 | Cairenn | mmmm, pretzels |
| 04:50.40 | Cairenn | that's a good idea |
| 04:51.22 | GenNMX | Pretzels don't translate into a lot of fat if you have a good carb balance, but they're very high in sodium, which can make you pretty winded ;) |
| 04:51.37 | Cairenn | I know, it's the salt that I eat them for |
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| 04:52.47 | GenNMX | When I think of Cairenn, I always think of her Female Night Elf avatar, and I associate Night Elves with deer...so I guess that means Cairenn likes salt licks ;) |
| 04:53.08 | AnduinLothar | i like both salty and sweet, not especiall picky |
| 04:53.24 | AnduinLothar | more of a sour fiend |
| 04:53.33 | Cairenn | sour is good too |
| 04:53.36 | Tain | I don't want to be the person who can't walk from my couch to the fridge without wheezing. But honestly I don't have any problem with someone who does. That's their choice. |
| 04:53.39 | Cairenn | sour patch kids rock |
| 04:54.08 | Tain | I do love me some sour patch kids. |
| 04:54.44 | AnduinLothar | woot sour patch. Zours too |
| 04:54.46 | Tain | Anyway you can just dismiss my rantings as someone who's overweight to begin with, so obviously I'm biased. |
| 04:55.02 | GenNMX | It's not about yelling at every person you see to get into shape, Tain, it's about the status of the world. I can't help but care for the future of humanity. Depression is very common in people of higher intelligence, and obesity is very common in the depressed. |
| 04:55.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeeg (n=wguru@63.147.183.137) |
| 04:56.07 | GenNMX | And one thing a lot of people are depressed about is their own obesity, so they eat more -- a bad cycle. |
| 04:56.25 | Cairenn | not always the case GenNMX, although I'm sure that is most often the case |
| 04:56.36 | Cairenn | some depressed people just stop eating |
| 04:56.42 | Tain | I happen to disagree on that point, GenNMX. I think people get depressed about their "obesity" because ad agencies tell them that they're unattractive. |
| 04:56.42 | GenNMX | Cairenn: Hence why I said "a lot" |
| 04:57.32 | Tain | But again, it's all a matter of personal opinion. |
| 04:57.44 | GenNMX | Tain: I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but it's much more effective to try and make people exercise then to completely destroy a stereotype propegated by some of the most powerful and influencial companies in mass media. |
| 04:58.51 | Cairenn | frankly, I think the modelling and "glamour" magazines have an awful lot to answer for |
| 04:59.02 | Cairenn | and that they should be ashamed of themselves |
| 04:59.24 | GenNMX | I think ALL forms of advertising have a lot to answer for. Advertising in any country is just absurd in what we let them get away with. |
| 04:59.37 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 04:59.41 | GenNMX | What ever happened to the laws about "truth in advertising" in any country? |
| 04:59.46 | Cairenn | HAH |
| 05:00.05 | GenNMX | I hate all ads. I love my PVR unit. |
| 05:00.07 | Cairenn | what happened to "truth in reporting" either? |
| 05:00.17 | Cairenn | hi zeeg |
| 05:00.25 | zeeg | hola |
| 05:00.34 | GenNMX | Cairenn: The Internet came and blew away their audience, so they needed to make it more glamorous |
| 05:01.10 | Tain | Whatever happened to truth in general. |
| 05:01.11 | Codayus | I dunno, I think a decent chunk of the audience drain is BECAUSE of editorials pretending to be neutral reporting... |
| 05:01.33 | Cairenn | Codayus: "pretending" ... |
| 05:01.37 | Tain | You can just look around and see truth disappear just looking around. |
| 05:01.41 | Cairenn | that being the key phrase right there |
| 05:01.56 | Cairenn | or rather, word, not phrase |
| 05:02.07 | Tain | The only truth many people see is that which makes them money. |
| 05:02.23 | GenNMX | Actually I disagree with that, Tain. It's not truth that's "disappearing", it's the people becoming MORE enlightened. |
| 05:02.54 | GenNMX | People have always gotten screwed pretty badly by the same parties which are doing it now, we're just becoming more and more aware. |
| 05:03.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge a-stray-cat (n=email@adsl-67-123-142-192.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 05:03.12 | GenNMX | Unfortunately, not enough people are aware of it yet to do something about some of the heinous acts going on. |
| 05:03.45 | Codayus | There used to be (so I'm told) a clear distinction between a newspapers factual reporting, and their editorials. That's often pretty hard these days.... (Of course, the optomistic argue that the news media was always biased, they were just able to hide it better before the 'net.) <shrug> |
| 05:04.15 | Codayus | Er, pretty hard to see. And I use the word "optomistic" advisedly. :-D |
| 05:04.18 | Tain | ehn. on a personal level I think it's become evident that not enough people care about truth to make a differnce. Otherwise we wouldn't have things like the trillions of dollars spent on US troops in foreign countries. |
| 05:04.20 | GenNMX | I don't think it was the 'net, Codayus. It's enlightenment. I see it all the time. |
| 05:04.24 | Tain | But agian, that's a personal opinion. |
| 05:04.30 | AnduinLothar | the difference is more in the acceted style of writing |
| 05:04.39 | AnduinLothar | accepted |
| 05:04.43 | GenNMX | I see plenty of people who can't effectively 'Google' or do any real fact-digging even at a local library. |
| 05:05.10 | Tain | Yes Anduin, absolutely. I'm more likely to listen to someone who spells out words completely and uses proper puncutation than someone who doesn't. |
| 05:05.27 | AnduinLothar | It used to be that people only wanted news from people or groups they trusted. |
| 05:06.12 | GenNMX | Tain: That's because the bulk of the voters in the US, the people who are in actual positions to make change happen, are 40 and above. It's the newer generations which are the more enlightened ones. |
| 05:06.39 | AnduinLothar | Now adays people accept that an online news group is made up of people. They still expect the truth, but they're also more incredulous and aware that it is one person writing it, not a team or researchers |
| 05:06.41 | GenNMX | The newer generations feel like they have no chance for reform until the older, less enlightened generation dies off. |
| 05:06.46 | Codayus | Hmm, so, who here would vote for instituting a MAXIMUM voting age? :-) |
| 05:06.57 | Tain | I hope you're right, GenNMX. I hope that the future exhibits that. I don't belive it, but I hope you're right instead of me. |
| 05:07.27 | Codayus | But yeah, the baby boomers are a big enough voting block that it seriously limits some political options. (cf, social security/pensions reform.) |
| 05:08.17 | Tain | Codayus: if two things happen that would be true. One, if they all voted. Two if their votes counted. (See Florida, 1992.) |
| 05:08.30 | GenNMX | Codayus: And seniors have the highest voter turnout of any age group, and most seniors are conservative (right OR left) |
| 05:08.32 | Tain | err |
| 05:08.33 | Tain | 2002 |
| 05:08.40 | Tain | I don't even know what year I'm in |
| 05:09.07 | Tain | Oh hell whatever. |
| 05:09.10 | Codayus | Um. |
| 05:09.31 | Tain | The last presidential election in the US for Emperor Bush. |
| 05:10.02 | Codayus | I will refrain from commenting about your grasp of political details. :-D |
| 05:10.41 | GenNMX | Codayus: Are you talking to me or Tain? |
| 05:11.01 | Codayus | GenNMX: I was talking to Tain, who seemed to be having some trouble with election dates. |
| 05:11.02 | Tain | I won't refrain from commenting on your backhanded remarks. How bout saying you'll just disagree rather than insinuate I don't understand the political process? |
| 05:11.43 | AnduinLothar | you made an exageration, she commented on your exageration with sarcasm, i see no problem here |
| 05:11.52 | Cairenn | one thing I will give the US system ... thank <insert belief of your choice, including non belief, here> that you only allow someone to hold office for two sessions |
| 05:12.02 | Tain | Amen to that, Cairenn |
| 05:12.15 | Tain | Let's hope that doesn't change. |
| 05:12.18 | Codayus | I wasn't insinuating anything. <shrug> |
| 05:12.28 | GenNMX | Codayus: Your comment wouldn't hold up in a debate anyway, since it doesn't follow the principle of charity ;) |
| 05:12.38 | GenNMX | Cairenn: ...Except in Congress. |
| 05:12.42 | Tain | Ok then Codayus, you were stating instead of insinuationg. how about that? |
| 05:12.49 | Cairenn | dial it back guys |
| 05:13.00 | Cairenn | before it gets out of hand |
| 05:13.07 | Codayus | Heh, I saw an idea floating around to repeal the term limit in exchange for repealing the limit on foreigners running for president. |
| 05:13.29 | Tain | There's been proposals to remove the term limits almost every year since it was introduced. |
| 05:13.36 | Tain | Thankfully they've never gotten very far. |
| 05:13.43 | Codayus | (This was back when Arnold was still popular.) The idea was 2008 would be Arnold vs Bill Clinton. Amusing idea... |
| 05:13.51 | Cairenn | I saw a cute bumper sticker the other day ... Politicians should only be allowed to serve two terms, the first in office, the second in prison |
| 05:13.56 | GenNMX | Arnold's not popular anymore? |
| 05:14.07 | Codayus | Not like he was... |
| 05:14.12 | Codayus | And not in the right areas. |
| 05:14.33 | Tain | No, he isn't. Lots of media backlash telling people what they should think about him. |
| 05:14.52 | GenNMX | Yeah, I think he's cool for doing that. |
| 05:15.02 | GenNMX | But I hate the media. |
| 05:15.26 | AnduinLothar | No current gov is ever cool |
| 05:15.31 | Tain | I do ahve to say that I've been wrong about one thing for many years, and the current US president has shown me that. |
| 05:15.56 | GenNMX | Tain: That nuclear is spelled "n-u-k-l-e-a-r"? |
| 05:16.10 | Tain | I used to belive that the President of the US didn't matter that much between candidates. There were enough other systems in place that one person couldn't do that much harm. |
| 05:16.23 | Tain | Today I believe that I was wrong. |
| 05:16.39 | AnduinLothar | there's always people that do not support the current gov who decide they need to make everyone else hate the current gov. I wouldn't even blame it all on the media. the media just covers the crap people think up to make public |
| 05:17.17 | Codayus | AnduinLothar: And the state Republicans are perfectly capable of self-destructing all on their own; no media help needed. |
| 05:17.26 | GenNMX | AnduinLothar: The selections of what to cover, and how much they cover what they select to cover, and how they cover it, is what I think the media is doing wrong. |
| 05:17.41 | Codayus | No way would Arnold have ever won the Republin nomination in a normal election, for example... |
| 05:17.50 | AnduinLothar | normal.. heh |
| 05:18.16 | GenNMX | Republicans are self-destructing? The Republican party is far stronger then the Democratic party right now. It's the Democracts which are self-destructing. |
| 05:18.18 | Tain | Just remember, the people who report things also want to keep their access to high-level government officials. |
| 05:18.40 | AnduinLothar | everyone has their agenda |
| 05:18.46 | Tain | I vote Whigs |
| 05:18.49 | Codayus | GenNMX: *state* The Republican party in California is disfunctional as hell, and would rather keep their ideological pureness than select someone electable. |
| 05:19.22 | Cairenn | AnduinLothar: and that is one of the truest statements around |
| 05:19.34 | GenNMX | Codayus: Well, the same could be said about either party right now. I didn't like Kerry much either, it became a battle of ideals, not of candidates. |
| 05:19.54 | Tain | Well I'm off to sleep while I'm still able in my own home. |
| 05:19.54 | Codayus | <shrug> I'm not sure either side had a lot of ideals in that election cycle. |
| 05:19.59 | Tain | good night all. |
| 05:20.02 | zeeg | [amsg] Just FYI, the wowguru bot is offline at the moment as we're changing hardware. It will be back ASAP |
| 05:20.07 | Cairenn | night Tain |
| 05:20.12 | GenNMX | Codayus: Well, just the general Republican vs Democrat ideals. |
| 05:20.16 | Tain | Nite Cairenn. |
| 05:20.34 | GenNMX | Tain: G'night, make sure to check your pillow lining for NSA transmitters. |
| 05:20.34 | Codayus | Pft, the Republicans have ideals? Would those be "larger government" or "more pork"? :-/ |
| 05:20.40 | Tain | Goodnight zeeg!!!!!! MY FAVORTIE BEST FREIND!!@!$#@!$$ |
| 05:20.48 | Codayus | Night Tain. |
| 05:21.30 | GenNMX | Codayus: Pro-Gun, Pro-Life, Pro-Theocracy, Pro-Business and Anti-Socialism |
| 05:21.56 | GenNMX | Anti-Communism too, of course, goes along with Socialism |
| 05:22.18 | GenNMX | They might be ideals you and I don't agree with, but they ARE ideals ;) |
| 05:23.12 | Codayus | Hmm, this probably isn't the place, but I'd have to disagree with at least some of those. As an example, I completely disagree that anti-socialism is a motivating factor in the Republican party; it's just not an the agenda. |
| 05:23.47 | zeeg | so |
| 05:23.50 | zeeg | who knows a lo9t about macs |
| 05:23.58 | Codayus | Not me! |
| 05:24.08 | zeeg | i need it to read my 300gig NTFS |
| 05:24.12 | zeeg | it has the size/etc right, but shows no files |
| 05:24.52 | Iriel | Is it a permissions issue? |
| 05:25.06 | zeeg | no idea |
| 05:25.09 | zeeg | i havent a clue about macs |
| 05:25.10 | zeeg | just got this today |
| 05:25.22 | zeeg | my network dont seem to be working either |
| 05:25.40 | Cairenn | doesn't* |
| 05:25.45 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 05:25.48 | zeeg | davidcramer.net |
| 05:25.49 | zeeg | oops |
| 05:25.51 | zeeg | wrong keyoard |
| 05:25.51 | zeeg | lol |
| 05:26.02 | zeeg | k nvm internet sowkring |
| 05:26.07 | GenNMX | Codayus: I meant Anti-Communism, or a system of economy where the government controls as much as the economy as possible. Republicans want wealth to be controlled as much by *businesses* as possible, and least by the government, or the purest form of capitalism there is. Democrats want something in the middle of pure capitalism and communism. |
| 05:26.09 | zeeg | AnduinLothar, do i have to do something to make it read the files on the NTFS drive |
| 05:26.37 | AnduinLothar | never tried hooking up an NTFS drive, but it should be supported on the kernel level |
| 05:26.58 | AnduinLothar | extrenal usb? |
| 05:27.02 | GenNMX | Since Democrats feel that businesses can become corrupted and need far more watching then what the judicial system can give. |
| 05:27.18 | GenNMX | zeeg: I'd start at "Linux NTFS drivers" in Google |
| 05:27.30 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 05:27.33 | zeeg | no its IDE |
| 05:27.35 | GenNMX | Mac isn't Linux, but I bet they have links to OSX-related stuff. |
| 05:28.39 | AnduinLothar | Apple support forum is a good place to start |
| 05:28.47 | GenNMX | That too. |
| 05:29.12 | GenNMX | Sleepy time. |
| 05:29.15 | AnduinLothar | the apple online support is rated very highly among computer companies |
| 05:29.30 | Cairenn | night GenNMX |
| 05:29.43 | AnduinLothar | what are u using that has an IDE cable, tho? |
| 05:29.48 | AnduinLothar | G4? |
| 05:29.55 | Codayus | GenNMX: I believe you're wrong. The Republicans, in general, tend to be a little more pro-market than Democrats, but it's a damn small difference. The Republicans don't favor unfettered markets, nor do they have any clear ideal about what they DO favor - it's just a situational "what wins us more votes". |
| 05:30.00 | Codayus | And yeah, night GenNMX. |
| 05:30.29 | AnduinLothar | everyone in polotics cares about votes |
| 05:30.55 | zeeg | g3 i think |
| 05:31.02 | AnduinLothar | ah, old school |
| 05:31.03 | zeeg | i just need it to act as a fileserver :| |
| 05:31.05 | zeeg | ya |
| 05:31.11 | AnduinLothar | what OS u using? |
| 05:31.11 | zeeg | if i like it i may go buy a mini or something |
| 05:31.16 | zeeg | os x |
| 05:31.18 | zeeg | 10.3 or w/e |
| 05:31.46 | AnduinLothar | ok, ya 10.3 should support NTFS, however I don't know if your hardware will |
| 05:31.59 | zeeg | hrm |
| 05:32.26 | zeeg | ownership and permissions says "You can only read" on it |
| 05:32.35 | AnduinLothar | can you read it? |
| 05:33.04 | GenNMX | Codayus: Wait, one more thing on that -- the Republicans want to privitize Social Security, all forms of mass transit (even "special mobility" vans for the disabled), *schools*, the Post Office, and more. |
| 05:33.05 | zeeg | it says the files are there (used 112gb on disk) but doesnt show any |
| 05:33.23 | zeeg | ill try sharing it |
| 05:33.26 | zeeg | and see if i can read from it on this pc |
| 05:33.44 | AnduinLothar | ya, I haven't tried that particular feat, so i'd have to use the support pages |
| 05:34.19 | GenNMX | Although not all Republicans are as Right as the people who want to privitize everything, I'll agree with that. But I think the party in general follows these ideals. |
| 05:34.48 | Codayus | Some do...most don't. You might be thinking of the Libertarians. :-) |
| 05:35.15 | GenNMX | Codayus: Rush Limbaugh isn't a Libertarian, according to him... |
| 05:35.16 | AnduinLothar | zeeg do you have another boot drive running? |
| 05:35.47 | zeeg | ya this is a diff hdd on it |
| 05:36.02 | AnduinLothar | try updating the boot drive to past 10.3.6 |
| 05:36.08 | Codayus | I wouldn't know what he is, or what he thiks. <shrug> |
| 05:36.11 | Codayus | thinks |
| 05:36.29 | AnduinLothar | i see 10.3.6 lists "improved support for NTFS formatted volumes" on the list of changes |
| 05:36.38 | GenNMX | Codayus: Do you live in America? |
| 05:36.42 | Codayus | Yeah |
| 05:37.02 | GenNMX | You should read up on Rush Limbaugh, take a look at his website. rushlimbaugh.com I think. |
| 05:37.06 | AnduinLothar | Just go to the apple menu and click "Software Update" and download all that apply |
| 05:37.11 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 05:37.15 | zeeg | it dont list the mac in my network list |
| 05:37.19 | GenNMX | He's one of the most highly acclaimed Right-wing political analyst. |
| 05:37.21 | Codayus | The current administration has presided over the largest increase in federal education spending ever. Also the addition of the largest entitlements program ever. If there's a principle in there, I missed it. |
| 05:37.28 | zeeg | how do i share a drive? |
| 05:37.41 | Codayus | I know WHO he is, but if you persist in calling him an analyst, I may be unable to restrain my laughter. :-) |
| 05:38.09 | AnduinLothar | System Prefrences:Sharing:Windows Sharing |
| 05:38.11 | Codayus | I have a...low opinion of him. No offence to his fans, numerous though they may be. |
| 05:38.36 | GenNMX | Codayus: A political analyst doesn't need to be neutral ;) He usually has his facts straight, he just presents them in a pro-Right way. |
| 05:39.05 | Codayus | Perhaps he does; that's more charitable than I would be based on my very limited encounters with him. <shrug> |
| 05:39.25 | GenNMX | He's a good example of what the Republican party may be thinking, or at least the extremists. And it's getting harder and harder to distinguish extremists in the two parties. |
| 05:39.41 | zeeg | hrmm AnduinLothar i still dont see it in my network list on windows |
| 05:39.46 | zeeg | so i got no idea how to connect to it |
| 05:41.14 | GenNMX | OK, now I really gotta go. Later. |
| 05:41.35 | AnduinLothar | what workgroup is ur pc on? |
| 05:41.58 | zeeg | mshome |
| 05:42.15 | GenNMX | Wait, one more thing |
| 05:42.34 | zeeg | nvm |
| 05:42.36 | zeeg | workgroup exists now |
| 05:42.39 | AnduinLothar | make it WORKGROUP |
| 05:42.39 | zeeg | can i change that AnduinLothar? |
| 05:42.40 | GenNMX | zeeg: Are you sharing a Macintosh drive and trying to access it in Windows? |
| 05:42.54 | zeeg | GenNMX, im trying to share it and access it haha |
| 05:42.58 | zeeg | so yes, but no |
| 05:43.00 | zeeg | i havent gotten that far |
| 05:43.04 | AnduinLothar | the mac defaults to the WORKGROUP workgroup |
| 05:43.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@pcp04349492pcs.mobilh01.al.comcast.net) |
| 05:43.24 | zeeg | how do i change that? |
| 05:43.29 | GenNMX | Yeah, run the Network Setup Wizard in Windows XP |
| 05:43.33 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 05:43.37 | AnduinLothar | Windows sometimes defaults to MSHOME, sometimes WORKGROUP i forget when.. pro maybe |
| 05:43.39 | Cairenn | hi Kael |
| 05:43.41 | GenNMX | Start->Control Panel->Network Setup Wizard |
| 05:43.44 | Kaelten | hellow |
| 05:43.51 | zeeg | err no |
| 05:43.53 | zeeg | i mean change it in the mac |
| 05:43.53 | GenNMX | Make sure file sharing is enabled, and make sure the workgroup is named WORKGROUP |
| 05:43.54 | Kaelten | ContainerIDs are constant correct? |
| 05:43.54 | zeeg | i want mshome :P |
| 05:44.14 | GenNMX | zeeg: You need to do it on the XP machine to open up the ports in the firewall anyway |
| 05:44.22 | AnduinLothar | well i have no idea how to configure that on the mac |
| 05:44.33 | zeeg | hm well |
| 05:44.37 | zeeg | it says i dont have access to it anyways |
| 05:44.49 | AnduinLothar | put in your password and username |
| 05:44.49 | zeeg | network path was found |
| 05:45.00 | zeeg | doesnt ask :| |
| 05:45.06 | AnduinLothar | silly windows |
| 05:45.21 | GenNMX | zeeg: Wait, is this the share on the Mac? |
| 05:45.29 | AnduinLothar | access it from the explorer then |
| 05:45.57 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:46.17 | zeeg | windows is fine |
| 05:46.20 | zeeg | ya im trying that |
| 05:47.19 | zeeg | Firefox can't find the file at ///192.168.2.34/curtistiedt. |
| 05:47.38 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:47.40 | GenNMX | zeeg: If it's a share on the Mac, then you probably don't have the share setup correctly on the Mac. I don't know enough about Macs to fix it, but I can tell you how to do it in Windows. |
| 05:47.51 | GenNMX | Don't use Firefox, go to Start->Run |
| 05:48.08 | zeeg | i did // |
| 05:48.08 | zeeg | :P |
| 05:48.14 | AnduinLothar | explorer ~= ff |
| 05:48.49 | zeeg | says i dont have permission |
| 05:48.53 | zeeg | to access the network resource |
| 05:49.12 | AnduinLothar | hmmm, forget the command line password syntax |
| 05:49.21 | GenNMX | zeeg: OK, make a new user with the same username and password as the Macintosh username. |
| 05:49.27 | Legorol | Ok, I have just realised what Blizzard has done in Europe |
| 05:49.51 | Legorol | First, they made it so that to improve performance, you can't create characters on some of the servers if you don't already ahve characters on there |
| 05:50.16 | Legorol | Second, they are going to take a bunch of servers offline for at least 24 hours (including my servers) |
| 05:50.29 | Legorol | These two sets don't entirely overlap |
| 05:50.44 | Legorol | So the end result: my servers are down, and on other servers I am unable to create characters |
| 05:51.16 | GenNMX | Legorol: Translation for you -- their hardware is very cheap. |
| 05:51.44 | Legorol | Overall, out of the 75 English EU servers, only 22 will be available for me to play on for at least the next day, but maybe more |
| 05:51.46 | AnduinLothar | they really just dont want u to play leg |
| 05:52.06 | GenNMX | But that's not necessarily Blizzard's fault, it's the European publisher's job to make sure the servers have good hardware and are upkept. |
| 05:52.25 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 05:52.28 | zeeg | i gotta get my friends password |
| 05:52.29 | Legorol | the European publisher is called Blizzard Europe ;-) |
| 05:52.30 | zeeg | i should just reinstall osx |
| 05:52.37 | GenNMX | Although Blizzard NA also skimps out on hardware, which I think is due to their main french owner. |
| 05:52.40 | zeeg | but it doesnt like the dvd burner i put in and i dont wanna swap that out right now |
| 05:52.50 | GenNMX | Who owns Blizzard again? V-something? |
| 05:52.58 | Legorol | Vivendi Universal Games |
| 05:53.19 | Legorol | that may not be the exact name, it's the Games subsidiary of Vivendi Universal |
| 05:53.30 | GenNMX | Yeah, I'm under the impression now that Vivendi is short-changing Blizzard, saying WoW isn't as impressive as it is and keeping more cash then they should. |
| 05:53.42 | Legorol | i don't think so |
| 05:53.46 | Legorol | i think the opposite |
| 05:53.54 | Legorol | WoW had much more success than anyone anticipated |
| 05:54.01 | Legorol | so they didn't have the hardware right from the start |
| 05:54.09 | Legorol | they are now scrambling to do hardware upgrades all over |
| 05:54.16 | zeeg | ya |
| 05:54.21 | GenNMX | Legorol: But they're not pushing for a big upgrade, either. |
| 05:54.24 | Legorol | what was it, in NA if i remember correctly, they launched with something like 40 or so servers |
| 05:54.25 | zeeg | AnduinLothar |
| 05:54.29 | Legorol | GenNMX, in Europe they are |
| 05:54.34 | GenNMX | And new servers actually seem MORE unstable then old. |
| 05:54.40 | zeeg | "You have inserted a disk containing no volumes that Mac OS X can read. To continue with the disk inserted, click Ignore. |
| 05:54.45 | zeeg | Initialize... Ignore and Eject |
| 05:54.47 | Legorol | new data center has been opened, they are even transferring some of the first servers to new data center onto new hardware |
| 05:54.55 | AnduinLothar | blank cd? |
| 05:55.04 | zeeg | the cd drive has a mac os x disk in it |
| 05:55.07 | zeeg | maybe this is talking about my hdd? |
| 05:55.19 | Legorol | anyway, was going to say: in NA, they launched with 40 and went up to 80 or so in first week or something like that, wasn't it? |
| 05:55.23 | AnduinLothar | nah, you cant eject a hardrive |
| 05:55.38 | Legorol | i heard later that the extra 40 servers they threw in over that first couple of week was what they planned to gradually phase in during the first *year* |
| 05:55.47 | AnduinLothar | unless it's usb with drivers |
| 05:56.15 | Legorol | anyway i probably shouldn't complain, hardware restructuring and upgrades is good thing |
| 05:56.15 | zeeg | hm |
| 05:56.33 | AnduinLothar | ya, i dont think many people on the blizz staff slept first few weeks |
| 05:56.50 | Legorol | The reason why i'm complaining is because all this hassle is because they are moving 8 servers, all German |
| 05:56.58 | Legorol | as a result, I'm restricted to 22 out of 75 English servers |
| 05:57.00 | Legorol | go figure |
| 05:57.04 | zeeg | idk AnduinLothar |
| 05:57.08 | zeeg | i hit "Initialize.." |
| 05:57.11 | zeeg | and i see 3 hdds |
| 05:57.15 | AnduinLothar | and it errored |
| 05:57.19 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 05:57.44 | zeeg | no before that |
| 05:57.44 | zeeg | hrm |
| 05:58.50 | zeeg | ok how do i detect hardware/ :p |
| 05:58.55 | Cairenn | night Legorol |
| 05:59.39 | AnduinLothar | apple:about this mac: more info |
| 06:00.14 | AnduinLothar | and while on the abut page what os vers does is say? |
| 06:01.58 | zeeg | 10.3.9 |
| 06:02.23 | AnduinLothar | ok, that's latest you can update for free |
| 06:03.38 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 06:04.09 | zeeg | how do i make it know my cd drive is there? :| |
| 06:05.19 | AnduinLothar | is your cd drive compatible with old macs? |
| 06:06.19 | AnduinLothar | unless it specificly said mac compatible on the box i doubt they have made the drivers |
| 06:06.41 | zeeg | no idea |
| 06:06.42 | zeeg | lol |
| 06:06.46 | zeeg | hrm |
| 06:07.40 | zeeg | im gonna rip it apart and put the old drive in and reinstall os x |
| 06:08.07 | AnduinLothar | just for the password? |
| 06:09.53 | AnduinLothar | lol. Eranikus crashed the Eastern Kingdoms server |
| 06:11.05 | AnduinLothar | either that or BWL instance server went down |
| 06:11.19 | AnduinLothar | no whole continent |
| 06:14.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_ (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 06:20.42 | Kaelten | night guys |
| 06:21.07 | Cairenn | night Kaelten :) |
| 06:31.50 | Mango | gah |
| 06:31.55 | Mango | i needed to talk to him |
| 06:33.50 | zeeg | ooo |
| 06:33.51 | zeeg | i think i got it |
| 06:34.42 | zeeg | ok how do i share an entire drive |
| 06:37.59 | Mango | you mean on a network? |
| 06:39.25 | zeeg | ya |
| 06:39.26 | zeeg | for mac |
| 06:39.48 | Mango | oh mac |
| 06:39.57 | Mango | nvm |
| 06:42.49 | AnduinLothar | can you see the drive on your pc? |
| 06:43.52 | zeeg | on the mac, yes |
| 06:44.05 | AnduinLothar | can you see the mac drive on your pc? |
| 06:44.09 | AnduinLothar | windows* |
| 06:44.15 | zeeg | one sec |
| 06:46.15 | AnduinLothar | http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/migrate/ go down to "Direct connect" |
| 06:47.02 | AnduinLothar | oh thats' pc to mac |
| 06:47.04 | AnduinLothar | nm |
| 06:51.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (n=astrayca@adsl-67-123-142-192.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 06:53.30 | AnduinLothar | here ya go zeeg |
| 06:53.40 | AnduinLothar | a few minutes with google saves hours |
| 06:53.41 | AnduinLothar | http://www.ifelix.co.uk/tech/3001.html |
| 06:54.00 | Fanook | the 10.3 -> 10.4 update isn't free? |
| 06:54.46 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 06:55.07 | AnduinLothar | apple doesn't do upgrades the way MS does |
| 06:57.20 | AnduinLothar | Apple updates far more frequently and has offered a point upgrade every year for the past 6 years. 10.3 -> 10.3.1 -> 10.3.2 -> 10.3.... -> 10.3.9 are free 10.4 costs $, jsut like 10.3 did when it came out |
| 06:58.09 | zeeg | ok so now i need to change the u/p |
| 06:58.09 | zeeg | :| |
| 06:58.28 | zeeg | says bad username/poasswore |
| 06:58.30 | AnduinLothar | jsut call the guy and ask |
| 06:58.30 | zeeg | ya |
| 06:58.34 | zeeg | no i got that |
| 06:58.42 | zeeg | i mean on windows (i changed user accounts/etc so the info is dif) |
| 07:10.35 | Ktron | be back in a couple days, night everyone |
| 07:10.41 | Ktron | purl, ktron |
| 07:10.42 | purl | i guess ktron is dangerous. He doesn't really know what he is doing. Stop him. |
| 07:10.54 | Cairenn | night Ktron, have a good time wherever it is you are heading to |
| 07:11.01 | Ktron | purl, night |
| 07:11.03 | purl | G'night ktron, get out of here. |
| 07:11.07 | Ktron | heh, Rhode Island Cairenn |
| 07:11.19 | Ktron | from New Hampshire, to visit a friend |
| 07:11.28 | Cairenn | well in that case, stay safe |
| 07:11.29 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 07:12.02 | Ktron | if tomorrow Boston blows up around 2pm or Rhode Island sinks after 3pm, mourn ;)M |
| 07:12.09 | Cairenn | heh |
| 07:12.25 | AnduinLothar | not both? |
| 07:12.31 | AnduinLothar | exclusive or? |
| 07:12.43 | Ktron|RI | no, that would be 'xor' wouldn't it? |
| 07:12.57 | AnduinLothar | :D |
| 07:13.05 | Ktron|RI | you too AnduinLothar |
| 07:13.10 | Ktron|RI | hey, last quesiton |
| 07:13.10 | AnduinLothar | nto when it comes to bombs ;) |
| 07:13.17 | Ktron|RI | purl, ktron_asks |
| 07:13.19 | purl | [ktron_asks] How hard would it be to make an addon that changes the color of all the names of your friends/guildmates when you see in them in chats? so you could pick them out of general, or pick your friends out of /guild |
| 07:13.51 | AnduinLothar | mmm, believe ctra does that for raid leaders already, so... not hard |
| 07:14.06 | Cairenn | shall I comment on what a sad state of affairs it is when you don't consider your entire guild "friends"? |
| 07:14.21 | AnduinLothar | large guild... |
| 07:14.26 | AnduinLothar | new guild... |
| 07:14.34 | Ktron|RI | lol... well, truthfully, I only count a handful of people I play with friends |
| 07:14.35 | AnduinLothar | i hate most on my guild currently |
| 07:14.41 | Ktron|RI | guilds get up to 200 |
| 07:14.47 | AnduinLothar | mines 300 |
| 07:14.53 | Mango | anduin, you're from lothar? |
| 07:15.04 | Ktron|RI | my friend has a channel just for his friends besides /g |
| 07:15.05 | AnduinLothar | and yet we still cant get 20 people fro zg.. |
| 07:15.29 | Ktron|RI | Or another use might be color-coding player names to match class colors |
| 07:15.36 | Ktron|RI | super easy way to differ classes |
| 07:15.45 | AnduinLothar | ya, that's harder |
| 07:15.58 | AnduinLothar | only works if they're in ur part or nearby |
| 07:16.09 | AnduinLothar | party* |
| 07:16.11 | Ktron|RI | heck, if we were clever enough, we could find a way to express 2 colors, and show class/race/name in one word |
| 07:16.32 | Ktron|RI | AnduinLothar, you could store everyone, and just 'who' everyone you don't have |
| 07:16.40 | AnduinLothar | eww... |
| 07:17.02 | Iriel | Just use multiple colors for one name |
| 07:17.07 | AnduinLothar | that's fine for friendslist.. i'm not storing a table for everyone on the server tho... |
| 07:17.09 | Iriel | Since there aren't any 1 letter names as far as I know |
| 07:17.24 | Ktron|RI | it'd be easy, and the initial setting up would just take a quick parsing of '/who g-"guildname"' or such |
| 07:17.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@pool010.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:17.47 | Ktron|RI | Iriel, yeah, but I'm not sure if people would go for having the first half one color, and the second half another... maybe alternating colors would look better |
| 07:17.49 | AnduinLothar | right. I'm not debating feasability |
| 07:18.04 | AnduinLothar | but im not workng on a mod that saves the class of everyone on the server |
| 07:18.12 | Ktron|RI | yeah yeah, who cares about that ;) |
| 07:18.20 | Ktron|RI | just friendlist and maybe guildlist |
| 07:18.41 | AnduinLothar | it's possible |
| 07:18.42 | Ktron|RI | actually, can you use being in the same guild to get that info? |
| 07:18.50 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 07:19.06 | Ktron|RI | so, you wouldn't have to store guildmembers, just friends, and that's small enough |
| 07:19.27 | AnduinLothar | already done with FriendsList |
| 07:19.40 | AnduinLothar | FriendsFacts* |
| 07:19.48 | AnduinLothar | cant even remember the name of my own mod |
| 07:19.57 | AnduinLothar | that's a good sign i've written too many |
| 07:20.04 | AnduinLothar | should dump a few |
| 07:20.27 | AnduinLothar | like Archaeologist.. no one uses that |
| 07:20.35 | Ktron|RI | where'd you host FriendsFacts? I can find it in Ometh, but that's about it |
| 07:20.47 | AnduinLothar | Ometh? |
| 07:20.58 | Ktron|RI | http://games.softpedia.com/get/Mods-Addons/World-of-Warcraft-Ometh-Mod.shtml |
| 07:21.15 | Ktron|RI | Anyway, that's a little bit different, but not a bad starting point |
| 07:21.39 | AnduinLothar | where the hell are u looking... it's in Cosmos, on curse and on WoWI |
| 07:21.40 | Ktron|RI | just need to basically take FriendsFacts and add on to it something to automatically color their names |
| 07:22.40 | Ktron|RI | heh, I just googled it |
| 07:22.58 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4461 |
| 07:22.59 | Ktron|RI | you know what'd be useful, and probably not too hard to code using php? |
| 07:23.22 | Ktron|RI | In fact, I think I could generate some noticeable traffic if I make it |
| 07:23.36 | Ktron|RI | I've used FriendsFacts actually, it's a nice addon |
| 07:23.49 | Ktron|RI | definitely should have been the original behavior |
| 07:24.41 | Ktron|RI | Alright, the traffic idea-- I'll probably do it, so don't you do it-- make a 'web search' engine like thing that uses google, but lets you stores 'sets' of websites to search and choose one of yoru sets to search in |
| 07:25.24 | Cairenn | http://www.wow-db.com/ |
| 07:25.33 | Ktron|RI | for example, you could add dictionary sites all to a dictionary set, enecyclopedias to encyclopedia set, WoW addon sites to a WoW addon one, WoW item db sites to a WoW item db etc |
| 07:26.25 | Ktron|RI | yeah, similar idea Cairenn, though I think I'd make it so users could register and make their own, and make them public or not if they want |
| 07:26.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tain (i=Shrubber@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 07:26.52 | Ktron|RI | maybe try to get a parsing system so they can even just direct people to http://mysite.myext/~username/ to get their list |
| 07:27.20 | Ktron|RI | heh, the ultimate win would be to integrate it as a del.icio.us tool that uses del.icio.us tags to specify groups |
| 07:27.55 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Mango (n=Sallazar@6532138hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 07:31.59 | Elkano | Anduin, I had been looking for you :) |
| 07:32.22 | AnduinLothar | seems i'm popular today |
| 07:32.35 | Elkano | I've got a problem with arch again :/ (well, I've fixed it for me but wel...) |
| 07:33.07 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 07:33.18 | Elkano | I'm using Arch together with Gypsy and Titan and wenn I installed the latest version (2.63 (?)) my TargetFrame went missing |
| 07:34.00 | AnduinLothar | titan 2.13.1 ? |
| 07:34.15 | Elkano | removing the code that repositions the frame in Arch fixed it but I don't get why it went missing in first place |
| 07:34.19 | Elkano | yes |
| 07:34.37 | Ktron|RI | brb |
| 07:34.39 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ktron|RI (n=Khamer@c-24-128-172-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 07:35.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (n=Khamer@c-24-128-172-211.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 07:35.32 | AnduinLothar | well all three of those mods try to reposition it |
| 07:36.00 | Elkano | I know... |
| 07:36.27 | AnduinLothar | one either cleared it and didn't re anchor or anchored without clearing would be miy guess |
| 07:36.48 | Elkano | the strange thing is that it worked before and I didn't notice any change in your code |
| 07:37.30 | AnduinLothar | try clicking the titan option to not move the frames |
| 07:38.05 | Elkano | well, can't test atm 'cause it's weekly maintenance in Europe ^^ |
| 07:39.45 | Elkano | one thing I was wondering: if I change your code to always reposition relatice to the playerframe instead of using a fixed value maybe it would work. |
| 07:40.41 | Elkano | I had this problem once before where the targetframe was put back to the original position but this time it was totaly offscreen I suppose. Will test a bit when the servers are back up. |
| 07:40.42 | AnduinLothar | it might, although that's what Arch attempts if i remember correctly |
| 07:41.23 | Elkano | you reposition relatively only when TARGETHP2 is active |
| 07:41.32 | Elkano | if not: -- TargetFrame:SetPoint("TOPLEFT", "UIParent", "TOPLEFT", 250, y); |
| 07:42.16 | Elkano | line 1538 |
| 07:43.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zeetg (n=wguru@63.147.183.137) |
| 07:44.54 | AnduinLothar | ah, right.t hats' the code in the default ui |
| 07:45.16 | AnduinLothar | think i made it relative once and then changed it |
| 07:45.42 | AnduinLothar | spose i could change it back now that many things use IsUserPlaced |
| 07:46.04 | AnduinLothar | anyway. laundry time |
| 07:49.23 | Ktron|RI | really out now, night everyone |
| 08:02.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 08:07.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:08.23 | Cairenn | hey [MoonWolf] |
| 08:08.34 | [MoonWolf] | morning |
| 08:08.39 | [MoonWolf] | I have the flue..... |
| 08:08.45 | Cairenn | ewww |
| 08:08.48 | [MoonWolf] | So don't get to close. |
| 08:09.32 | Cairenn | along with a nice cup of tea |
| 08:10.25 | Cairenn | flu? or cold? |
| 08:10.53 | [MoonWolf] | both i guess |
| 08:12.01 | [MoonWolf] | Muscles feel weird and tense, high temperature feeling cold, coughing all the time, headache, upset stumache . |
| 08:12.10 | Cairenn | ewwwww |
| 08:14.01 | [MoonWolf] | How many blankets do you have over there ? |
| 08:14.12 | Cairenn | heh, lots |
| 08:14.39 | Cairenn | I'm 115 lbs, female, and live in Canada ... I've got LOTS of blankets |
| 08:15.12 | [MoonWolf] | okay |
| 08:15.43 | stray`laptop | have chicken soup :P |
| 08:15.56 | stray`laptop | the american cure-all for all things cold. even though it doesn't cure diddly :) |
| 08:16.21 | stray`laptop | wuzat o_O |
| 08:17.19 | [MoonWolf] | Oh, wikipedia tells me you call it tylenol. |
| 08:17.33 | stray`laptop | ah. |
| 08:18.37 | Cairenn | stray`laptop: actually, it does help |
| 08:19.28 | stray`laptop | it helps about as much as any other warm soup, i think, but it doesn't do anything particularly special |
| 08:19.40 | stray`laptop | though, i have to say im rather fond of chicken soup :P |
| 08:20.11 | Cairenn | stray`laptop: a) it provides internal warmth and b) it is "comfort" food, and anything that makes you feel better helps boost the immune system |
| 08:20.23 | stray`laptop | :) |
| 08:20.41 | Cairenn | btw, I hadn't specified what type of soup, just soup in general ;) |
| 08:20.41 | stray`laptop | i could really use some soup right now, 'tis chilly |
| 08:20.47 | stray`laptop | ah 8) |
| 08:20.54 | [MoonWolf] | Does Cactus tea count as comfort food too ? |
| 08:21.05 | Cairenn | if it helps make you feel better, then yes |
| 08:21.30 | [MoonWolf] | yay! |
| 08:21.37 | Cairenn | my favorite "comfort" food when I'm sick is actually apple juice |
| 08:21.41 | stray`laptop | cactus tea eh? |
| 08:21.58 | Cairenn | it isn't warm, but I still really really like it when I'm sick |
| 08:21.58 | [MoonWolf] | I like the weirder tea types. |
| 08:22.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 08:22.05 | stray`laptop | ic |
| 08:22.12 | stray`laptop | i stick to green tea o.O |
| 08:22.24 | Codayus | Plus, if you think chicken soup is good for you, it will be. At least a bit. |
| 08:22.44 | [MoonWolf] | Codayus, yay <someword i forgot> effect. |
| 08:22.48 | Codayus | Placebo. |
| 08:22.51 | Codayus | :-) |
| 08:23.06 | [MoonWolf] | yes, that was it. |
| 08:23.07 | Elkano | Cairenn, 115lbs would be 57.5kg, wouldn't they? so our weight is almost the same ^^' |
| 08:23.19 | [MoonWolf] | purl convert 115lbs kb |
| 08:23.27 | stray`laptop | dont you people get blown away in the wind? o_o |
| 08:23.32 | [MoonWolf] | purl convert 115lbs to kb |
| 08:23.42 | stray`laptop | maybe put a space? |
| 08:23.42 | Codayus | Hmm, I'd think of a comfort food being something more like chocolate than chicken soup. :-P |
| 08:23.51 | [MoonWolf] | purl convert 115 lbs to kb |
| 08:23.57 | [MoonWolf] | damn you |
| 08:24.01 | Codayus | (Well, for most people. Oddly, chocolate doesn't so much for me. |
| 08:24.04 | stray`laptop | kg |
| 08:24.09 | stray`laptop | not kb :X |
| 08:24.10 | Codayus | LOL |
| 08:24.16 | Cairenn | actually, the online conversion I'm looking at says it's about 52 kilos |
| 08:24.22 | Codayus | I'm soo not going to comment. :-) |
| 08:24.22 | [MoonWolf] | yeah 56 kb. |
| 08:24.27 | [MoonWolf] | kg* |
| 08:24.33 | [MoonWolf] | according to google. |
| 08:24.38 | stray`laptop | 8) |
| 08:25.07 | stray`laptop | for me comfort food would be some kinda soup, probably oxtail |
| 08:25.13 | [MoonWolf] | see, this is how healthy i am i am confusing bytes with weight. |
| 08:25.22 | id` | :P |
| 08:25.28 | stray`laptop | have some soup imo :) |
| 08:25.41 | id` | purl convert 83kg to lbs |
| 08:25.43 | stray`laptop | or pho |
| 08:25.51 | stray`laptop | man i really want some pho |
| 08:25.54 | Elkano | oh, 1lbs = 453,59g ... thought it was 1lbs = 500g ^^' |
| 08:25.55 | id` | purl convert 1.8 meters to feet |
| 08:26.01 | id` | thats me |
| 08:26.03 | id` | ;O |
| 08:26.16 | Cairenn | oh ugh, don't start spamming purl to convert stuff :p |
| 08:26.17 | [MoonWolf] | shorty. |
| 08:26.26 | Cairenn | meh, taller than I am |
| 08:26.33 | id` | heavier too :| |
| 08:26.43 | Elkano | purl convert 115lbs to kg |
| 08:26.50 | id` | ha ha |
| 08:26.51 | id` | :p |
| 08:27.06 | Elkano | purl convert 58kg to lbs |
| 08:27.17 | stray`laptop | need purl to make sure ! :P |
| 08:27.25 | stray`laptop | do they use lbs in canada? |
| 08:27.40 | Elkano | well, purl realy IS handy :) |
| 08:27.44 | Cairenn | Canada actually uses metric |
| 08:27.47 | stray`laptop | i thought everywhere except the US was metric ;o |
| 08:27.57 | stray`laptop | and maybe GB has its own |
| 08:27.59 | Cairenn | I'm just still used to lbs and feet/inches, when it comes to weight/height |
| 08:28.04 | stray`laptop | ah |
| 08:28.12 | Cairenn | everything else, I use metric |
| 08:28.35 | Cairenn | I've just never been able to switch over on those two, try though I might |
| 08:28.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:29.07 | [MoonWolf] | i know a british person who still tells me his weight in stone ^_^ |
| 08:29.16 | Cairenn | heh |
| 08:29.34 | Cairenn | now *that* is going back a ways |
| 08:30.14 | stray`laptop | purl convert 1 stone to lbs |
| 08:30.23 | stray`laptop | hey, that's heavy |
| 08:30.46 | krka|work | I weigh a dozen and a half stones! |
| 08:30.51 | stray`laptop | so when that british guy on that diet show on foodnetwork said he had lost a stone, it really meant something :O |
| 08:31.00 | krka|work | oops, misgoogled |
| 08:31.01 | krka|work | 11 stones |
| 08:31.04 | Codayus | I ran into stones a lot in NZ... |
| 08:31.41 | Codayus | Only for the weight of humans though. <shrug> |
| 08:51.16 | Cairenn | night all |
| 08:51.28 | Cairenn | gonna see if I can manage to do that sleep thing |
| 08:52.32 | Kalroth | what's sleep? |
| 08:52.52 | Cairenn|sleep | that which I get way too little of |
| 08:57.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 09:05.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 09:05.59 | *** topic/#wowi-lounge is Happy Coding! |
| 09:09.48 | AnduinLothar | hmm, now to test out ItemRack.. |
| 09:14.45 | AnduinLothar | lol Blizz is again advising users to remove custom ui's |
| 09:15.35 | Kalroth | :/ |
| 09:17.50 | krka|work | yeah, they are blaming their own errors on us :( |
| 09:18.05 | krka|work | i got a bug with not being able to attack certain mobs, and they said it was my uis |
| 09:18.33 | krka|work | i only used devtools and my own, so I think it was bs |
| 09:18.49 | Corrodias | they said the same to me |
| 09:18.54 | Corrodias | relogging fixes it, note |
| 09:18.57 | krka|work | yeah |
| 09:19.04 | Corrodias | might be related to the reputation screen bug |
| 09:19.12 | krka|work | but still, how would a custom ui screw that up? that's way native |
| 09:19.29 | krka|work | also, i have noticed that scrollframes have been missing the drag-thingy |
| 09:19.36 | krka|work | it appears when you click on it though |
| 09:20.22 | Corrodias | mhm |
| 09:23.22 | AnduinLothar | Ok, well. I have to say. ItemRack beats the crap outa Wardrobe |
| 09:24.43 | krka|work | ooh, gotta check it out |
| 09:26.22 | AnduinLothar | tho I still prefer Wardrobe's menu. It's easier for set swapping and i dont like remembering hotkeys |
| 09:27.47 | krka|work | should be easily modified :) |
| 09:29.22 | AnduinLothar | but ItemRack easily replaces wardrobe + trinket menu + weapon buttons |
| 09:29.39 | AnduinLothar | I like being able to define my own events too |
| 09:30.10 | AnduinLothar | was gonna add something to wardrobe, but I think i'll give up and just make an ItemRack menu and titan mod |
| 09:31.01 | AnduinLothar | it kinda does funny things with EnhTooltips too tho.. |
| 09:31.34 | AnduinLothar | hmmm, well actually... ItemRack does have a menu |
| 09:31.40 | AnduinLothar | it's just not a menu |
| 09:31.47 | AnduinLothar | it's a dropdown of tooltips |
| 09:32.00 | AnduinLothar | but the names are obscured, like macro names |
| 09:32.46 | AnduinLothar | part of the ui looks identical to TrinketMenu tho |
| 09:35.22 | AnduinLothar | that event thing is really cool. it's like a who event tool all by itself... |
| 09:35.27 | AnduinLothar | whole* |
| 09:35.40 | AnduinLothar | can put any code ou want into it's editor |
| 09:36.10 | AnduinLothar | i could write whole event driven addons in luapad and ItemRack |
| 09:37.11 | AnduinLothar | and he optionally uses IsMounted :) |
| 09:38.00 | AnduinLothar | no onload management for sets tho |
| 09:38.06 | AnduinLothar | but i can make my own |
| 09:41.38 | Corrodias | luaslinger also has an 'execute on this event' field |
| 09:41.40 | AnduinLothar | ah, it doesn't remember equipment accross sessions either for dismounting |
| 09:42.44 | AnduinLothar | tho i have no idea who said ItemRack was efficient... it duplicates so much code i already have in other addons.. |
| 09:44.50 | krka|work | i tried making a strip-addon, but i had problems with some equiping failing |
| 09:44.56 | krka|work | very odd |
| 09:45.26 | krka|work | efficient is not the same thing as not replicating code |
| 09:46.19 | AnduinLothar | no, but I've already written the Library code for a lot of the stuff, So most of it I can think of more efficient ways to do it, even if it's not using a lib |
| 09:46.31 | krka|work | http://bash.org/?597921 |
| 09:46.52 | krka|work | memory or processor efficient? |
| 09:47.08 | AnduinLothar | both in this case |
| 09:47.27 | AnduinLothar | but in my personal case i have an eccess of memory and no proc power to spare |
| 09:47.47 | AnduinLothar | so if duplicating runs faster then go ahead |
| 09:50.36 | krka|work | what kind of code is it duplicating? |
| 09:50.57 | krka|work | I have realized that almost all addons are written badly, so i have to write everything myself :/ |
| 09:52.07 | AnduinLothar | i'm only looked throught he timing code, it's not really that bad, but it also has it's own mounted code that's less efficient, still playing with the addon itself before i disect the code |
| 10:14.30 | AnduinLothar | mmm, now i cant get mounting to work with ItemRack.. |
| 10:22.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 10:28.33 | AnduinLothar | ahh ok. the event swaps are disabled while the options menu is open |
| 10:29.17 | AnduinLothar | and the onload mount does work |
| 11:06.11 | Corrodias | woo hoo, my human rogue is off to a good start |
| 11:06.23 | Corrodias | although it feels odd to be around so many alliance chars |
| 11:33.51 | Corrodias | you know, i don't think i've -ever- seen the battleground minimap |
| 11:34.39 | Corrodias | i played WSG a couple of time and i certainly saw no map, but maybe i just didn't try toggling it on |
| 11:35.05 | Corrodias | and this minizonemap addon doesn't display it like it should... yet i can't make it appear with the LUA i've tried |
| 11:39.28 | [MoonWolf] | mendeleev 0.4.1 is out, localize to your hearts content. |
| 11:45.42 | Corrodias | says one young player on the tech support board, " If you are using Titan Panel this will cause this. Do a google search for Titan panel BG minimap and you should find the website that fixes this. I posted the fix on the MAC tech support forum but couldn't find it." |
| 11:58.09 | Corrodias | fixing... |
| 11:58.19 | Corrodias | only problem is, i don't really have anywhere else to PUT this map |
| 11:59.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 11:59.07 | Shouryuu | rawr? |
| 11:59.55 | Corrodias | RAH |
| 12:03.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 12:03.43 | id` | wzaaaaaa |
| 12:07.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:22.21 | Shouryuu | does Xchat work with ubuntu? |
| 12:23.26 | id` | no it will crash and tell you to use www.archlinux.org |
| 12:24.41 | Shouryuu | somehow |
| 12:24.46 | Shouryuu | "Ubuntu comes with XChat IRC client installed by default" |
| 12:25.00 | id` | have you plugged in the power cable? |
| 12:25.01 | krka|work | why wouldn't xchat work with ubuntu? |
| 12:25.12 | id` | to both the electricity putput and the computer? |
| 12:25.19 | Shouryuu | just wondering |
| 12:25.30 | id` | output* |
| 12:26.14 | id` | have you tried runnning 'xchat' from the console? |
| 12:26.23 | krka|work | answer: use krka.getManaCost(spellName, [rank]) ^_^ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=294897&p=1&tmp=1#post294897 |
| 12:26.31 | id` | ha ha im such an ass sometimes :< |
| 12:26.35 | id` | sry Shouryuu |
| 12:26.37 | id` | :> |
| 12:27.36 | Shouryuu | =P |
| 12:27.39 | Shouryuu | i;ve seen worst |
| 12:28.06 | id` | is the computer on? |
| 12:28.16 | Shouryuu | actualy I lost my keyboard |
| 12:28.20 | Shouryuu | can you help me find it? |
| 12:28.36 | id` | where are you now? |
| 12:28.37 | Codayus | Shouryuu: A better question might be: Do all linux applications run all all Linux disros? To which the answer is, for all practical purposes, yes. :-) |
| 12:28.56 | Shouryuu | codayus read my mind :P |
| 12:28.56 | Shouryuu | thanks |
| 12:29.08 | Codayus | (I'm sure there's exceptions, but none spring to mind.) |
| 12:29.23 | Lebannen | hmmmm... any way to get shapeshift/stance/aura info for other players, raid or generally? |
| 12:30.18 | Shouryuu | I don't think so |
| 12:30.19 | krka|work | aura yes |
| 12:30.24 | Shouryuu | I don't know how to at least |
| 12:30.41 | krka|work | check buff tooltips of unitID |
| 12:30.42 | Codayus | Oh, and the vast majority will also run on the major BSD flavors. Many will also run on Windows via Cygwin, although the fact that you can DO it doesn't necesarily mean you'd want to. |
| 12:30.44 | Lebannen | oh yes, aura can be fetched as a buff... jsut the other two then |
| 12:30.57 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 12:30.58 | krka|work | shapeshift... just look at the model :P |
| 12:31.05 | Codayus | Stances...that'd be tricky. |
| 12:31.09 | Shouryuu | yeah |
| 12:31.13 | Codayus | Hmm, let me think... |
| 12:31.16 | Shouryuu | combat log doesn't even monitor it.. |
| 12:31.30 | krka|work | doesn't show up as a buff then? |
| 12:31.30 | Lebannen | there's the good old chat messages "...gains X stance" |
| 12:31.38 | Shouryuu | there is? |
| 12:31.39 | Lebannen | doesn't seem to show up as a buff |
| 12:31.46 | Shouryuu | wow never knew that :p |
| 12:31.51 | Lebannen | yeah, but only when switching to it the first time |
| 12:32.03 | Lebannen | so there's no way to get info once they're in it |
| 12:32.10 | Codayus | I've actually vaguely wondered that before; sometimes you get a tank whose performing atrociously, and you wonder what the hell stance he's in... |
| 12:33.05 | Lebannen | GetShapeshiftFormInfo works for the current player, but the guides don't suggest it can be fed a target |
| 12:33.16 | Lebannen | and I can't test right now, at work :D |
| 12:33.18 | Codayus | If you didn't see him change, and he doesn't use any obvious abilities only available in a given stance, there's not much you can do... |
| 12:33.32 | Codayus | Lebannen: Yeah, that appears to be very limited. |
| 12:34.05 | krka|work | don't suppose tooltip:SetUnit gives anything? |
| 12:34.17 | Shouryuu | I'm guessing your best bet is to parse the log for stance-specific abilities |
| 12:34.42 | Codayus | Eeek. |
| 12:35.07 | Shouryuu | agreed =P |
| 12:35.20 | Codayus | That'll break if the person changes stance out of your range...or doesn't change stances. |
| 12:35.30 | krka|work | yes, for each ability, check which stances are possible and narrow it down until you know for sure |
| 12:35.50 | Codayus | And hmmm, I forget - depending on what messages are being shown, will all players even get the messages to parse? Or can addons see them even if the player doesn't? |
| 12:36.17 | Codayus | krka|work: Yeah, shouldn't be TOO hard to do that programatically. Localization will be a pain... |
| 12:36.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:36.53 | Lebannen | heh. as will range. But I guess it makes it possible... |
| 12:37.30 | krka|work | really? aren' |
| 12:37.39 | Codayus | Incidentally, what will the information be used for? |
| 12:37.46 | krka|work | i don't think localization would be too difficult |
| 12:37.53 | krka|work | besides, let others do that for you! |
| 12:37.59 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 12:38.00 | krka|work | if a german guy wants it, let him convert |
| 12:38.07 | krka|work | it's not really difficult |
| 12:38.30 | Codayus | True enough. Still, just doing it for one language would be a pain. Bleh. |
| 12:38.40 | krka|work | nah |
| 12:38.41 | Codayus | (What can I say? I'm lazy.) |
| 12:39.08 | krka|work | ability["Sunder Armor"] = {"Defensive", "Berserker"} or something |
| 12:39.43 | Lebannen | just playing around, coda... wondered if it would be possible to basically monitor other players to see how well they're playing |
| 12:39.59 | Lebannen | krka - yeah, I was thinking along the same lines now |
| 12:40.12 | Lebannen | bit of a pain, but... |
| 12:40.28 | Codayus | krka|work: Well, except you can sunder armor in Battle stance I know. :-) |
| 12:41.04 | krka|work | just an example, dont know crap about warriors |
| 12:41.17 | Codayus | Lebannen: Okay, it should work well enough for that - over the course of an instance run, say, you'd HAVE to get enough info to tell stances. (If not, then the warrior is clearly playing poorly.) :-) |
| 12:43.13 | Lebannen | yeah :D |
| 12:55.15 | Shouryuu | fuck I can' find a blank CD |
| 12:55.46 | Shouryuu | CDs are obsolete... |
| 12:55.54 | Corrodias | i keep a "good copy" of my chat-cache.txt, layout-cache.txt, and several per-character savedvariables files so i can propogate them to any new characters :D |
| 12:56.08 | krka|work | MindEveryoneElsesBusiness addon? |
| 12:56.24 | Shouryuu | what would that do? |
| 12:56.27 | Corrodias | BackseatRaidLeader |
| 12:56.35 | krka|work | monitor how well others are playing |
| 12:56.38 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 12:56.39 | Corrodias | ArmchairGeneral |
| 12:56.43 | Shouryuu | haha |
| 12:56.48 | krka|work | like how often they use different spell |
| 12:57.05 | krka|work | Mage: spell usage: Fireball (100%) |
| 12:57.08 | Shouryuu | well that won't mean much for priests in MC |
| 12:57.14 | Shouryuu | flash heal or dispel |
| 12:57.22 | krka|work | well, could check how long it takes to dispel |
| 12:57.31 | krka|work | and how often they waste mana |
| 12:57.34 | krka|work | and stuff like that :) |
| 12:57.56 | Corrodias | minizonemap works great once you fix titan's screwup of the battleground map |
| 12:57.58 | krka|work | actually, would be cool to make an addon that monitors yourself to see how well you are playing and give nice feedback |
| 12:58.22 | krka|work | why does titan do stuff to the battleground map? |
| 12:59.05 | Corrodias | i don't know, but it apparently moves it somewhere off the screen and it's hard to get it back to a good place with SetPoint |
| 12:59.19 | krka|work | moves it off the screen? O_O |
| 12:59.19 | Corrodias | the easy fix is just use a cooked savedvariables file |
| 12:59.45 | krka|work | never played a battleground so I don't really know what a battleground map is though |
| 12:59.49 | krka|work | is it like a minimap? |
| 13:00.09 | Corrodias | it's a miniature map that can be partially transparent that shows the entire area |
| 13:00.16 | Corrodias | possibly also your group members or raid members |
| 13:00.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 13:00.38 | Corrodias | minizonemap by Silver makes it usable outside of battlegrounds, which i find to be pretty convenient |
| 13:00.52 | Corrodias | although he says it gets confused inside instances |
| 13:02.21 | krka|work | ah... what is the difference to AlphaMap then? |
| 13:04.11 | Corrodias | probably not much, if you make it small |
| 13:04.42 | Corrodias | except, i suppose, that it's built-in and doesn't try to interface with anything like mapnotes |
| 13:05.35 | krka|work | i see |
| 13:06.16 | krka|work | btw, what do you think of this idea I had: create a scrollable and zoomable mapframe that uses both the worldmap, continent maps and zone maps? |
| 13:06.28 | krka|work | draw worldmap first, then continents, then zones |
| 13:06.28 | Corrodias | i'm not terribly familiar with alphamap, i must admit |
| 13:06.48 | Corrodias | like, a smaller version of the regular "map"? |
| 13:06.56 | Corrodias | except scrollable |
| 13:07.03 | krka|work | not necessarily smaller |
| 13:07.22 | Corrodias | but there's no point to making it scrollable if it's not smaller |
| 13:07.33 | krka|work | yes it is, since it's zoomable |
| 13:07.49 | Corrodias | well, if you plan to add detail to the existing maps, that would be great |
| 13:08.01 | krka|work | you could watch barrens and durotar and dustwallow at the same time with it :) |
| 13:08.04 | Corrodias | at the moment, zooming in would just give you a pixellated view with no more detail |
| 13:08.16 | Corrodias | ah, zooming out.. an interesting idea |
| 13:08.17 | krka|work | zooming _out_ too :P |
| 13:08.32 | krka|work | if you had mapnotes and stuff, zooming in might be useful sometimes |
| 13:08.37 | krka|work | if it gets too crowded |
| 13:08.42 | krka|work | or you need to know more precise |
| 13:08.45 | Corrodias | your mom |
| 13:09.03 | Corrodias | sure, go think of things i didn't think of |
| 13:09.04 | krka|work | ... right |
| 13:09.34 | Corrodias | could be interesting, i suppose |
| 13:09.42 | krka|work | i don't really see why you couldn't show durotar on top of the barrens map |
| 13:09.46 | Corrodias | you'd have to have it display the three zones at the same time, could be difficult |
| 13:09.56 | Corrodias | not overlayed, surely? :o |
| 13:10.03 | krka|work | why not? |
| 13:10.20 | Corrodias | what would be the point to that? |
| 13:10.29 | krka|work | to see both at once |
| 13:10.54 | Corrodias | you couldn't determine which landmarks went with which area. but zooming out and showing both in their respective locations i can understand |
| 13:11.39 | krka|work | oh, i see what you mean, no not on TOP of it, just NEXT to it |
| 13:12.05 | Corrodias | aha :D |
| 13:12.16 | krka|work | the only problem is where they the textures overlap and differ |
| 13:12.24 | krka|work | -they |
| 13:24.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 13:34.00 | id` | im bored |
| 13:50.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust242.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:52.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 13:52.51 | Shouryuu | arrrghhhh |
| 13:53.08 | Shouryuu | I feel so godam retarted |
| 13:53.24 | Shouryuu | I can't even manage to burn an Iso to a cd ='( |
| 13:54.28 | id` | ZOMG PWNT BY TEH CD BURNOR |
| 13:54.34 | id` | *yawn* |
| 13:55.25 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 13:55.55 | *** part/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 13:58.59 | [MoonWolf] | What do you call a blonde with a brown hair colouring , Articial Inteligence. |
| 13:59.24 | Shouryuu | what do you call a brune who dyes her hair blinde? |
| 13:59.27 | Shouryuu | *blonde |
| 13:59.47 | Shouryuu | Lobotomy! |
| 13:59.47 | Shouryuu | rawr |
| 13:59.51 | [MoonWolf] | not aclue |
| 13:59.54 | [MoonWolf] | lol |
| 14:02.19 | Shouryuu | I;m getting a "generic error" while trying to write an Iso to a cd, is it my CDs which suck or just me? |
| 14:14.32 | Cide | does anyone here use the german/french version of the game? |
| 14:15.02 | krka|work | i use the Freedom version |
| 14:18.34 | Cide | not sure what that is :) |
| 14:18.51 | krka|work | nvm |
| 14:19.00 | Cide | oh well! |
| 14:34.29 | shouryuu|maths | cide I can have access to a french version |
| 14:34.34 | shouryuu|maths | not immediately but I can |
| 14:35.00 | [MoonWolf] | no you dont click that link i sent you,you marry it and have lots of little links and live happily ever after |
| 14:35.33 | Cide | I need the prefix for the french & german Greater Blessings |
| 14:35.44 | Cide | I have the normal names but I need the prefix, in english it's obviously "Greater" |
| 14:37.32 | [MoonWolf] | Whenever you do something on your computer (open a window, read an email, open your browser, change pages in your browser via forward, back, refresh etc) you get whats called a *cookie*. Every cookie goes to the end of where the *free space* is on your computer. After so many cookies, when all the free space (memory) is used up on your hard drive, it will use what's called *virtual memory*. The virtual memory is what your computer n |
| 14:37.33 | [MoonWolf] | eeds to run programs. Consequently, when you are out of virtual memory you'll get the *auto shutdown* because your computer is trying to refresh itself. |
| 14:40.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=Parak@x403442a4.ip.e-nt.net) |
| 14:42.14 | Lebannen | Mooonwolf: the mind boggles. |
| 14:43.08 | [MoonWolf] | indeed |
| 14:44.01 | Corrodias | that is from the fake definition site, isn't it.. |
| 14:44.27 | [MoonWolf] | no |
| 14:44.48 | [MoonWolf] | someone posted that on a support forum in an attempt to explain what cookies are. |
| 14:45.04 | Corrodias | if it isn't, then i'm not touching it, because it obviously was very recently inside someone's ass, until it was forcefully pulled out |
| 14:45.11 | [MoonWolf] | I am very happy i quickly got out of there before my iq dropped to much. |
| 14:48.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 14:55.56 | shouryuu|maths | cide - I'll check that out for you |
| 15:00.01 | [MoonWolf] | good morning Cairenn |
| 15:00.10 | Cairenn | hey [MoonWolf] :) |
| 15:00.51 | [MoonWolf] | have any more cough sirop , i think im getting withdrawel syntoms. |
| 15:04.18 | [MoonWolf] | yay |
| 15:04.36 | Tain | Goodmorning Cairenn |
| 15:04.47 | Cairenn | hey Tain :) |
| 15:05.33 | Tain | So far this week I'm better than 50% at getting to work. ;) |
| 15:05.45 | Cairenn | good! |
| 15:13.58 | shouryuu|maths | Cide - can't find the translation =( I know Blessings are "Benediction" with a " ' " on both e's. |
| 15:14.41 | shouryuu|maths | The translation of Greater healing is "superieur" with a ' on the first e, but I can't guaranty that Greater Blessings are "benediction superieur" |
| 15:15.21 | [MoonWolf] | http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/534-tattoo.htm |
| 15:16.49 | shouryuu|maths | lol |
| 15:45.20 | Cairenn | zzzzZZZzzzz |
| 15:48.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 15:49.57 | shouryuu|maths | For anyone who wants the spells in french and translated in english |
| 15:49.57 | shouryuu|maths | http://worldofwarcraft.judgehype.com/index.php?page=competences&c=4&t=9&tri=1 |
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| 16:14.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
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| 16:16.03 | [MoonWolf] | I wish mods i think of magically coded themselves. |
| 16:16.08 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:19.25 | [MoonWolf] | off to rip off more code i go. |
| 16:20.21 | Cairenn | did they at least credit him? |
| 16:20.23 | [MoonWolf] | Was it aeus who did it ? |
| 16:20.37 | End | they just said they copied it and provided a link |
| 16:20.39 | End | yes |
| 16:21.03 | Cairenn | that is crediting ;) |
| 16:21.09 | End | yeah |
| 16:21.23 | End | I looked for some sort of name at first though, and I didn't find that :P |
| 16:21.27 | End | then I notice the link |
| 16:21.55 | End | not sure why I'm looking on there though |
| 16:22.42 | Cairenn | I wish we could merge the best of both channels, and throw the rest away |
| 16:23.34 | End | hmm? |
| 16:23.41 | [MoonWolf] | what channel ? ##ace and #wowi-lounge ? |
| 16:23.44 | Cairenn | errr, both forums, rather |
| 16:23.47 | End | oh |
| 16:23.51 | [MoonWolf] | ah |
| 16:23.52 | Cairenn | the US and EU UI forums |
| 16:24.05 | Cairenn | bah, I know what I mean :p |
| 16:24.12 | [MoonWolf] | I would really like it that happend |
| 16:24.17 | Elkano | I hope someday we'll get a usefull German CM, too (wrt UI forums) :/ |
| 16:24.29 | [MoonWolf] | some filter that automagically removes all stupid posts like are addons legal |
| 16:24.42 | Shouryuu | my eyes do that for me |
| 16:24.43 | [MoonWolf] | plx nerg decursive! |
| 16:24.51 | Shouryuu | lol |
| 16:25.37 | [MoonWolf] | Cairenn, when does an addon become popular at WoWI ? |
| 16:25.54 | Cairenn | when enough people download it |
| 16:26.47 | [MoonWolf] | Well, was looking at both my addons, Mendeleev and Slash, slash is like not popular at all but has a popular tag, and mendeleev is pretty popular and has no tag. |
| 16:28.21 | End | slash seems to have a lot more downloads to me |
| 16:28.37 | End | mendeleev=453, 983 |
| 16:28.39 | End | er |
| 16:28.45 | End | mendeleev=453, slash=983 |
| 16:28.53 | [MoonWolf] | but mendeleev is 4 day's old and slash about 3 months |
| 16:29.03 | End | yeah |
| 16:29.04 | End | true |
| 16:29.06 | Cairenn | it's still total download count |
| 16:29.11 | [MoonWolf] | okay |
| 16:29.19 | [MoonWolf] | Doesn't really matter. |
| 16:29.20 | Cairenn | age has nothing to do with it |
| 16:29.24 | Cairenn | download count does |
| 16:29.28 | End | download/time would probably be a better popular indicator though :P |
| 16:30.24 | End | hmm |
| 16:31.09 | Shouryuu | yatlas? |
| 16:31.34 | End | yeah, an addon of mine |
| 16:31.55 | [MoonWolf] | great idea btw. |
| 16:32.10 | [MoonWolf] | gogogo make it show party and raid dots. |
| 16:32.15 | End | hehehe |
| 16:32.20 | End | I'm planning on that for 0.7 |
| 16:32.26 | End | I still need to release 0.6.1 |
| 16:32.31 | End | which has a bunch of bug fixes |
| 16:33.02 | End | oh, and I started figuring out instances some more, and came up with a bit of DM: http://bluealien.cjb.net/~end/misc/dm-section.png |
| 16:33.57 | [MoonWolf] | cool |
| 16:34.05 | Shouryuu | anyone here know why when I reboot from cd with my ubuntu cd ISO nothing happens? |
| 16:34.08 | [MoonWolf] | so what are you thinking, instances doable or not. |
| 16:34.12 | End | doable |
| 16:34.19 | End | the data is there |
| 16:34.39 | End | unfortunately..., I haven't figured out where it is yet |
| 16:34.54 | End | the wowmapview wiki has been an immense help though |
| 16:36.23 | End | (well, the data I don't know yet is how to translate from the actual wmos to the names they use for the textures) |
| 16:39.19 | Shouryuu | well hopefully I won't be back in a while and Ubuntu will be installed! |
| 16:41.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge id` (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:45.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 16:45.58 | Shouryuu | rawr... |
| 16:46.02 | Shouryuu | I suck |
| 16:46.26 | Shouryuu | can't even get my computer to reboot from it's CD drive... This is pissing me off |
| 16:49.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71-35-116-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:49.41 | Cairenn | hi Gryphen |
| 16:52.02 | Gryphen | hello |
| 17:05.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 17:05.55 | Tem | rofl anyone see slouken's original reply to the blizzard addons having RegisterForSave in them? |
| 17:06.49 | Fanook | nope :( |
| 17:06.55 | Elkano | nope. Link? |
| 17:08.08 | Tem | http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011120061107097rt.png |
| 17:08.41 | Fanook | haha |
| 17:09.51 | Tem | browser cache ftw, eh? |
| 17:10.07 | Elkano | well, quick&dirty solutions ;) |
| 17:10.45 | Elkano | isn't it used for the friendsframe, too? (to save state of 'show offline guild members') |
| 17:13.59 | Tem | I'm pretty sure it isn't |
| 17:14.02 | Tem | that's a C var |
| 17:14.38 | Tem | so I think that's taken care of outside of the lua enviroment |
| 17:14.49 | Tem | (at least I think it's a C var) |
| 17:14.59 | id` | hmm EU auth server(s?) is down |
| 17:15.20 | End | what am I doing? |
| 17:15.20 | End | oh |
| 17:15.21 | End | yeah |
| 17:15.24 | End | merging branches |
| 17:15.34 | Tain | hah slouken funny |
| 17:15.39 | id` | :) |
| 17:15.43 | Tem | eug, I need to get a better svn client |
| 17:15.48 | Tem | messing with branches is hell |
| 17:17.06 | Tem | yay! I can finaly post with my draka toon |
| 17:17.15 | End | branch merging is okay with tsvn, but pretty hellish with the svn command line |
| 17:17.25 | Cairenn | been able to for a while, I toldeded you guys that :p |
| 17:17.32 | Tem | I'm using tortoise svn |
| 17:17.42 | End | well, it's worse with the command line >_< |
| 17:17.42 | Tem | Cairenn: yeah, you think I pay attention? |
| 17:17.58 | Tem | creating branches is my big one |
| 17:18.18 | Tem | I can never remember what folders it will make for me |
| 17:18.27 | Cairenn | uh huh |
| 17:18.33 | Tem | and it always complains at me about folders that aren't there |
| 17:18.37 | End | o_O |
| 17:18.52 | End | I find creating branches the -easy- part |
| 17:19.02 | End | it's like creating tags, but..a branch :P |
| 17:19.16 | Tem | I'm sure it's just user error |
| 17:19.20 | Tem | I'm somewhat new to svn |
| 17:19.27 | Tem | only been using it a few months |
| 17:19.42 | End | I've been using it about...7 or 8 months now |
| 17:19.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.5) |
| 17:20.11 | id` | i have yet to learn how to get things up instead of only down |
| 17:20.18 | id` | (my own stuff) |
| 17:20.19 | id` | :p |
| 17:20.49 | End | id: are we still talking about svn? |
| 17:20.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:20.55 | id` | Where can i find IRC support for cosmos? |
| 17:21.11 | id` | I have a very simple question. |
| 17:21.26 | Tem | irc.datavertex.com |
| 17:21.30 | id` | If i download cosmos now and have no other addons installed, will it work? |
| 17:21.31 | Tem | #cosmostesters |
| 17:21.33 | id` | right |
| 17:21.46 | Gryphen | cosmos works |
| 17:21.47 | Gryphen | yes |
| 17:21.51 | id` | okay |
| 17:21.54 | Cairenn | cosmos works fine |
| 17:21.56 | id` | *goes out and test cosmos* |
| 17:21.56 | Tain | Just start logging onto random irc servers and going into the #cosmostesters channel, you'll find one eventually. |
| 17:22.18 | Gryphen | half of us are here anyway |
| 17:22.25 | Cairenn | that too ;) |
| 17:23.28 | id` | So backing everything i have up |
| 17:23.29 | id` | :P |
| 17:23.36 | End | hmm |
| 17:23.44 | id` | (not that i don't every patch and/or every week) |
| 17:24.01 | id` | AddOns-1.8-060104 |
| 17:24.03 | id` | :-] |
| 17:24.43 | Tain | Just read Carl Sagan instead. |
| 17:37.24 | id` | Cosmos_Beginner <-- should i use this first? |
| 17:37.50 | End | doesn't it list what each Cosmos package has? |
| 17:37.52 | Gryphen | just use alpha |
| 17:38.04 | Gryphen | beginner just has limited addons |
| 17:38.04 | Legorol | No, use Beginner |
| 17:38.12 | Legorol | Beginner is subset of Alpha |
| 17:38.36 | Tain | Conflicting information! Fight fight! |
| 17:38.41 | Gryphen | hehe |
| 17:38.41 | End | FIGHT! |
| 17:38.47 | Legorol | it's conflicting recommendations ;-) |
| 17:38.51 | Legorol | the information is consistent |
| 17:38.52 | End | All caps is very important. |
| 17:39.08 | Gryphen | alpha has more to explore if you are just testing it out |
| 17:39.13 | id` | I want to do things the correct way, so i asked :] |
| 17:39.20 | Gryphen | doesnt matter what you choose |
| 17:39.23 | Gryphen | they are all correct |
| 17:39.23 | Gryphen | :) |
| 17:40.21 | Tain | Correct... like a fox! |
| 17:41.45 | id` | Q: Does wow run in D3D by default? |
| 17:42.01 | id` | Q: if so how do i get it to run OGL? |
| 17:42.10 | Tain | wow.exe -opengl |
| 17:42.30 | Gryphen | cosmos.exe will launch in ogl if you want :) |
| 17:42.36 | id` | There's nothing i can put in the /WTF/Config.wtf |
| 17:42.46 | id` | Gryphen, yes i noticed so i got curious |
| 17:42.46 | [MoonWolf] | yes id there is |
| 17:42.49 | [MoonWolf] | let me fetch the lines |
| 17:42.51 | id` | because i get 15FPS in game |
| 17:42.56 | id` | cool thx [MoonWolf] |
| 17:43.20 | Tain | I'd run it with wow -opengl first just to see if it makes a differene before changing stuff. |
| 17:43.23 | [MoonWolf] | SET gxApi "opengl" |
| 17:43.23 | [MoonWolf] | SET gxColorBits "24" |
| 17:43.23 | [MoonWolf] | SET gxDepthBits "24" |
| 17:43.24 | [MoonWolf] | SET gxResolution "1280x1024" |
| 17:43.25 | Tain | But that's just me. |
| 17:43.26 | id` | yep |
| 17:43.34 | [MoonWolf] | those lines will what they sound they do. |
| 17:43.34 | Tain | Or let Cosmos do it for you. |
| 17:44.49 | id` | k |
| 17:45.21 | Tain | Yay a G15 thread on the frontpage agani! |
| 17:45.47 | [MoonWolf] | cries* |
| 17:46.19 | futrtrubl | interesting spelling of the saviour |
| 17:46.54 | Tem | I don't see it |
| 17:49.32 | [MoonWolf] | maybe slouken was in a deletion mood. |
| 17:50.41 | Tem | no it just went to the second page before I saw it |
| 17:51.09 | Tain | Oh lots of posts today, pushed it down. |
| 17:51.21 | Tain | I love it though, "Does anyone from Blizzard even read the forums anymore?" |
| 17:52.05 | Tem | lol someone is new to the ui forums |
| 17:52.21 | Tem | meanwhile, there are 4 blue threads on the front page |
| 17:53.08 | Tem | it's funny to look at the "blue tracker" pages |
| 17:53.18 | Tem | slouken posts WAY more than anyone else |
| 17:53.28 | Tain | Yeah he does. |
| 17:53.47 | Tain | He's actually the best rep, never mind dev, I've ever seen in a mmog forum. |
| 17:54.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 17:54.35 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 17:54.51 | [MoonWolf] | tain, yes and we want him in the EU UI forums |
| 17:54.55 | Cide | and the replies are actually useful! |
| 17:54.58 | [MoonWolf] | Aeus is funny and nice. but he s not slouken. |
| 17:55.11 | Elkano | we should clone him, teach him German and send that clone oversea :/ |
| 17:55.26 | Tem | the great thing about slouken is that he can actually make changes when they need to be done |
| 17:55.31 | Tain | No it's our precious! |
| 17:56.01 | Tain | Filthy nasty hobbitses can't have our precious! |
| 17:56.12 | id` | hehe |
| 17:56.14 | krka | yeah, slouken is FTW |
| 17:56.23 | krka | slouken is imba, needs a nerf |
| 17:56.39 | Elkano | well I would be happen with a CM that would do 10% of the stuff that slouken does wrt UI :/ |
| 17:56.48 | Tain | haha that's exactly what we need a, "Nerf Slouken!" thread. |
| 17:56.52 | krka | actually, his nerf may be this "baby" thing I hear about |
| 17:57.05 | Cide | no! NO |
| 17:57.26 | Cide | Cairenn knows what to do, I hear she is an experienced kidnapper |
| 17:57.27 | id` | *darth vader style no* |
| 17:57.47 | id` | hmm that reminds me |
| 17:57.54 | id` | :> |
| 17:58.19 | Tain | Darth Vader never says no like that in my reality. |
| 17:58.28 | id` | ok |
| 17:58.29 | krka | Yellow Taxicabs May Not Drive? |
| 17:58.35 | id` | NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! |
| 17:58.40 | id` | like that? |
| 17:58.52 | Tain | No. |
| 17:58.55 | id` | =( |
| 17:59.01 | id` | how? |
| 17:59.14 | Tain | Never happen. |
| 17:59.22 | id` | ... |
| 17:59.25 | Tain | Darth Vader crushes people. He doesn't cry like a baby. |
| 17:59.38 | id` | dont make me start posting ytmnd links about darth vader saying no |
| 17:59.39 | id` | :p |
| 18:00.54 | futrtrubl | but Anakin does cry like a baby |
| 18:01.47 | Tain | Doesn't happen in my reality. |
| 18:02.23 | futrtrubl | ahh the "I reject your reality and substitute my own." relaity |
| 18:02.28 | Tain | I find your lack of faith disturbing. |
| 18:02.43 | id` | tain is a bot ha ha, :-) |
| 18:02.46 | futrtrubl | I'm an agnostic, what can I say |
| 18:02.56 | krka | where is Foothill Caverns? |
| 18:03.11 | id` | at the foot of the hill dummy |
| 18:04.00 | krka | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:04.17 | id` | <3 :) |
| 18:04.24 | Fanook | alterac |
| 18:04.40 | krka | thanks |
| 18:05.13 | Fanook | which makes sense, considering the hillsbrad foothills is there too |
| 18:07.35 | krka | ok... where in alterac? :) |
| 18:08.47 | krka | i'd look it up in a browser, but having firefox open kills performance :( |
| 18:09.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 18:09.40 | Maldivia | morning :) |
| 18:11.18 | futrtrubl | afternoon |
| 18:11.55 | krka | anyone? :/ |
| 18:12.53 | Fanook | looking now |
| 18:13.09 | krka | helculars revenge |
| 18:13.12 | Maldivia | no idea (didn't hear the question :) |
| 18:13.59 | krka | where is Foothill Caverns? |
| 18:14.06 | Fanook | right, figured that out :) |
| 18:14.25 | Fanook | Cave entrance (hillsbrad Foothils): 46,32 |
| 18:14.32 | Fanook | Flame of Uzel (Alterac mountains): 37,69 |
| 18:15.18 | Fanook | OH! it's the yeti cave |
| 18:15.53 | krka | DOH |
| 18:15.54 | krka | :) |
| 18:16.03 | krka | should have known :( |
| 18:16.11 | Fanook | ive never seen it called that :) |
| 18:18.44 | krka | yeah |
| 18:38.33 | Tain | My name is the Shake-zula, the mic rula, the old schoola |
| 18:40.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 18:40.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 18:41.04 | futrtrubl | ~emulate shake |
| 18:42.18 | Tem | numba one in da hood, G |
| 18:45.26 | Tain | heh! |
| 18:49.43 | [MoonWolf] | ~emulate MoonWolf |
| 18:49.44 | purl | ACTION Howls to the moon |
| 18:53.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-80-48.onelinkpr.net) |
| 18:58.51 | Tain | Oooh today is Albert Hoffman's 100th birthday! |
| 19:00.48 | [MoonWolf] | this is significant how ? |
| 19:01.15 | Tain | He is a very important man. |
| 19:02.09 | Maldivia | Uhh... happy birthday Albert... who is he? |
| 19:03.10 | Tain | Kids today. |
| 19:03.18 | Tain | He is the inventor of LSD. |
| 19:04.17 | Maldivia | Ahh... old hoffy... |
| 19:14.36 | [MoonWolf] | http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=3037 |
| 19:14.47 | [MoonWolf] | All you want to do under a single button addon. |
| 19:16.44 | Elkano | well almost everything.. doesn't do any damage ;) |
| 19:19.07 | Tain | Keyminder |
| 19:19.20 | krka | SealJudge seems like something krkaButtons could easily do as a setup |
| 19:19.49 | Tain | Yeah but krkaButtons is harder to pronounce and sounds funny. |
| 19:20.06 | krka | also, it's not available yet |
| 19:20.29 | Tain | I mean I'm not going to be out with some friends and say, "Hey have you tried kerkaa-buttons?" |
| 19:20.58 | krka | good point! |
| 19:21.31 | krka | i need a catchier name.... hm |
| 19:22.00 | Tain | hmm how about CrakaButtons |
| 19:22.11 | krka | KristoferButtons is slightly better |
| 19:22.47 | krka | only slightly however |
| 19:23.22 | Tain | hmm.. I think one too many syllables though. How about KristoButtons |
| 19:23.42 | krka | no... I know! CoolButtons |
| 19:23.44 | krka | or SuperButtons |
| 19:23.55 | futrtrubl | CrackBut. |
| 19:24.01 | krka | O_o |
| 19:24.05 | Tain | haha |
| 19:24.06 | krka | i kinda like it |
| 19:24.10 | futrtrubl | erm, I mean CrackButt |
| 19:24.29 | Tain | Howa bout CT_CosmoTitanButtons and confuse aeveryone. |
| 19:24.40 | krka | lol |
| 19:24.45 | futrtrubl | CrackPot |
| 19:25.04 | krka | Yet Another Weird New Button |
| 19:25.07 | krka | YawnButton |
| 19:25.11 | Tain | hehe |
| 19:25.16 | Tain | YAB |
| 19:25.39 | krka | dude, you missed the point. |
| 19:25.44 | krka | the point was Yawn :P |
| 19:25.59 | futrtrubl | YAWNBut |
| 19:26.06 | Tain | I know but I didn't like it. :( |
| 19:26.17 | krka | how about this: BendButton? |
| 19:26.21 | futrtrubl | what does the mod do btw? |
| 19:26.27 | krka | Bender - Flexo <-> BendBar - Flexbar |
| 19:26.29 | [MoonWolf] | make krka buttons. |
| 19:26.40 | krka | kinda flexbar-ish buttons |
| 19:26.42 | Tain | SewButtons |
| 19:26.44 | krka | only better |
| 19:26.57 | futrtrubl | krka buttons? like cookies? |
| 19:26.57 | krka | see screens: kristofer.no-ip.info:8080/tmp/wow |
| 19:27.06 | [MoonWolf] | cookiebuttons |
| 19:27.09 | Tain | BetterThanFlexBarButtons |
| 19:27.21 | futrtrubl | CookieBits |
| 19:27.27 | Tain | CookieCrisp |
| 19:27.45 | [MoonWolf] | what are those value's in the buttons |
| 19:27.48 | [MoonWolf] | the blueish ones |
| 19:27.51 | krka | lower left? |
| 19:27.53 | krka | Mana cost |
| 19:27.56 | Tain | SmurfButton |
| 19:28.15 | futrtrubl | Skmoores |
| 19:28.31 | futrtrubl | Shmoores* or however they're spelled |
| 19:29.04 | Tain | SnapButton |
| 19:29.04 | krka | since I'm currently burning futurama dvds, I think I'll go with BenderButtons |
| 19:29.16 | krka | BB... nothing else could possibly use that abbreviation! |
| 19:29.41 | futrtrubl | Snap krka and Pop buttons |
| 19:29.55 | Tain | DurkaButtons |
| 19:30.02 | krka | with such a retarded nickname, maybe I shouldn't use it for my addon name |
| 19:30.35 | futrtrubl | what is krka anyway? |
| 19:30.47 | Tain | Kid Rock Kicks ASs |
| 19:30.48 | krka | short for Kristofer Karlsson |
| 19:31.00 | futrtrubl | ahhh |
| 19:31.04 | krka | and my user name in school |
| 19:31.45 | futrtrubl | what's your main char's name? |
| 19:31.48 | krka | i know, really lame nickname :) |
| 19:31.57 | krka | Lobnaz |
| 19:32.15 | krka | no real reason, just mixed some letters together to make it sound like a name |
| 19:32.34 | futrtrubl | hey, there's a Fizzwidget around ;'] |
| 19:32.48 | krka | ooook.... bad idea to start unraring the next dvd while I burned the first one |
| 19:33.27 | futrtrubl | so, what do you think special about your button mod? |
| 19:33.59 | krka | well, fully customizable |
| 19:34.17 | futrtrubl | how is it moreso than DAB or flexbar? |
| 19:34.28 | [MoonWolf] | or visorbuttons ? |
| 19:34.28 | krka | you can fully choose which spell or action to be used on a certain button |
| 19:34.44 | krka | you can use any condition you can code a lua function for |
| 19:34.44 | [MoonWolf] | i can do that with default action buttons too. |
| 19:35.02 | futrtrubl | so it's an autocaster? |
| 19:35.08 | krka | example: only show polymorph if target is humanoid or beast |
| 19:35.16 | krka | not really, you have to hit the button |
| 19:35.19 | [MoonWolf] | futrtrubl, there is not such thing as an autocaster. |
| 19:35.34 | krka | but it displays a button depending on conditions |
| 19:35.49 | krka | apart from that, i like the cooldown and mana displays |
| 19:35.54 | krka | i think it looks clear |
| 19:35.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:36.05 | Shouryuu | fuck I am such a retart |
| 19:36.05 | krka | gonna add a range-thingy too I think |
| 19:36.09 | futrtrubl | Advanced Button Conditions |
| 19:36.17 | Shouryuu | I locked myself out of my house for 3 hours |
| 19:36.21 | futrtrubl | ABC |
| 19:36.28 | krka | i don't like flexbar because it's weirdly coded |
| 19:36.43 | krka | seems very limited, since it uses its own parser and its own little silly condition thingies |
| 19:37.17 | krka | also, it directly uses the actionbuttons if i'm not mistaken? |
| 19:37.23 | krka | i leave those alone |
| 19:37.43 | futrtrubl | so, it's more like Group Buttons than DAB? |
| 19:37.59 | krka | what is group buttons? |
| 19:38.30 | futrtrubl | another Discord mod, has conditional button bars that can be attached to unit frames |
| 19:39.17 | futrtrubl | but only built in conditions, not like yours |
| 19:39.29 | krka | conditions per spell or per bar? |
| 19:39.57 | futrtrubl | loz is going to combine it with DAB soon, I think he was thinking of allowing you to code conditionals |
| 19:40.01 | futrtrubl | per spell |
| 19:41.12 | futrtrubl | he's stopped supporting it though |
| 19:43.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 19:45.18 | Tain | Flexbar uses its own button templates, it doesn't use the Blizzard ActionButtons directly. |
| 19:47.10 | Shouryuu|Unthawi | ubuntu here I come! Rawr! |
| 19:47.26 | futrtrubl | but it still stores the actions in the ui's slots like DAB? |
| 19:47.29 | Tem | what does Frame:GetWidth() return if you haven't set the width? |
| 19:47.51 | Iriel | Someone knew the answer to that, I think it may be 0 |
| 19:47.53 | futrtrubl | nil i think, I don't think it errors |
| 19:47.56 | Iriel | Is Lego on? |
| 19:48.07 | Tem | Lego only knows the answer to that for fontstrings |
| 19:48.20 | Tem | It was he and I that figured all that out for them |
| 19:48.45 | Iriel | It shouldn't be too hard to tets |
| 19:48.46 | Iriel | test |
| 19:48.51 | Tem | aye |
| 19:48.52 | Iriel | just make sure the frame doesn't have any anchors |
| 19:48.57 | Tem | right |
| 19:49.03 | Tain | It returns the width of the frame in I believe its own scale. |
| 19:49.14 | Tem | I with I could do CreateFrame right now |
| 19:49.19 | Iriel | Me too |
| 19:49.22 | Tem | it would make this so much easier |
| 19:49.29 | Iriel | It'd clean up a whole crapload of code in StatRings |
| 19:49.29 | futrtrubl | it could still have 1 anchor couldn't it iriel? |
| 19:49.49 | Iriel | futrtrubl : I would imagine so, but i'd want to test it without any first |
| 19:49.53 | krka | yeah, no xml FTW! |
| 19:49.54 | futrtrubl | k |
| 19:51.09 | Tem | oh Iriel do you have a list of the frame methods that are shared/notshared? |
| 19:51.27 | futrtrubl | is there a statring template ready for use in other mods Iriel? I was making my own circbar template for use in BEB and then statrings came out and I stopped developing it |
| 19:52.50 | Tem | and it returns 0 |
| 19:53.09 | End | actually |
| 19:53.27 | Iriel | Tem |
| 19:53.30 | Iriel | See the wiki |
| 19:53.31 | End | that way I can get rid of my twenty billion pre allocated textures :P |
| 19:53.33 | Tem | Frame:CreateTexture good enough? |
| 19:53.36 | End | yeah |
| 19:53.40 | End | that's the one |
| 19:53.41 | Iriel | futrtrubl : yes, IrielRingTemplate |
| 19:53.49 | Tem | Iriel: for what? |
| 19:53.55 | Iriel | Tem: For the frame method lists |
| 19:54.04 | Tem | right right |
| 19:54.04 | Iriel | Tem: Though 'layout frame' cheats a bit |
| 19:54.11 | Tem | that's what I was afraid of |
| 19:54.20 | Iriel | Tem: I have the source list tho, if you want it |
| 19:54.32 | Tem | I'm trying to make my environment as close a simulation to the real thing as I can |
| 19:54.35 | Iriel | Tem: From which that page is generated (before cheating) |
| 19:54.42 | Tem | sounds good |
| 19:54.49 | Tem | that would probably help a lot |
| 19:54.52 | krka | if anyone figures out a way to do lines, let me know |
| 19:54.59 | Iriel | I know how to do lines |
| 19:55.05 | Tem | Lines? |
| 19:55.10 | krka | perfect, like your rings? |
| 19:55.32 | krka | i considered the new SetTexCoord but proved to myself it couldn't be done that way |
| 19:55.50 | Iriel | It can be done that way |
| 19:56.01 | krka | drawing a line from point A to point B with 90 degree angles |
| 19:56.05 | Iriel | you need out-of-texture coordinates (<0 or >1) |
| 19:56.10 | krka | well... drawing a rotated rectangle would be a better description |
| 19:56.36 | Iriel | same trick |
| 19:56.40 | krka | iriel, do a rectangle drawing addon :) |
| 19:56.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:56.46 | krka | that would be awesome |
| 19:56.50 | Iriel | I've got a texture spinning demo addon |
| 19:56.52 | Iriel | to demonstrate how it's done |
| 19:56.55 | Shouryuu | ubuntu has failed. Whoopy... |
| 19:57.06 | krka | yes, but it also needs to be able to stretch it |
| 19:57.16 | krka | that's the part i couldn't figure out |
| 19:57.29 | krka | rotating a fixed rectangle is easy |
| 19:57.36 | Iriel | The real challenge with line drawing is the end points |
| 19:57.53 | krka | yeah |
| 19:58.04 | Iriel | for the time being, just concentrate on cutting them off with a smooth horizontal or vertical line |
| 19:58.07 | futrtrubl | weren't you going to draw circles over the ends krka? |
| 19:58.09 | krka | stupid dvds.... says 8x but I can only use 4x |
| 19:58.38 | Iriel | and use a texture that's made up of 4 quadrants as follows |
| 19:58.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qwxyr (i=qw@201.80-202-198.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:59.06 | Iriel | top left: 45 degree triangle; top right solid; bottom left solid; bottom right; 45 degree triangle |
| 19:59.17 | Iriel | The same shape statrings uses for it's slice texture |
| 19:59.45 | Iriel | you can play texcoord games to stretch that to a line of any width |
| 20:00.10 | Iriel | (I'd recommend having special cases in your code for vertical and horizontal lines that just use a solid subset) |
| 20:00.11 | krka | still not convinced :) |
| 20:00.21 | Iriel | You dont have to be, I know it works 8-) |
| 20:00.38 | Tem | sounds like krka wants to get someone to "prove" it to him |
| 20:00.45 | krka | well, yeah |
| 20:00.47 | Tem | ("prove" == "do it for") |
| 20:01.02 | krka | nah, I'll take an illustration of a solution too |
| 20:01.41 | krka | it's the middle part I am not sure how to do |
| 20:01.41 | Iriel | StatRings already does |
| 20:01.52 | krka | it does rectangles too? |
| 20:01.57 | Iriel | except I create a wedge rather than a line |
| 20:02.14 | krka | would it be hard for you to mod StatRings to do rectangles? |
| 20:02.32 | Iriel | What do you mean by 'do rectangles' though? You mean draw an arbitrarily angled rectangle? |
| 20:03.00 | krka | yes |
| 20:03.09 | krka | of arbitrary scale |
| 20:03.27 | Iriel | i'll do it when i'm done with this conference call (idle) |
| 20:03.45 | krka | hmm.. no wait, now I am imagining it |
| 20:03.50 | krka | think it can be done with 3 textures |
| 20:03.53 | krka | need to draw a bit |
| 20:04.07 | Iriel | it can be done with ONE texture |
| 20:04.26 | krka | o rly? :) |
| 20:04.39 | Iriel | you have to think backwards |
| 20:04.51 | krka | i am usually good at that! |
| 20:04.58 | Tem | hmm is there no way to get the alpha set by LayoutFrame:SetAlpha? |
| 20:05.20 | Iriel | draw the rectangle shape you want on a piece of paper |
| 20:05.44 | krka | done |
| 20:05.44 | Iriel | then draw the Texture object boundary around that |
| 20:05.57 | krka | yeah |
| 20:05.59 | Tem | oh nevermind each LayoutFrame derivative has it's own way to get it |
| 20:06.19 | Iriel | so you'll end up with a boundary aligned with the axes, containing a rotated/scaled rectangle, right? |
| 20:06.49 | krka | yes |
| 20:07.19 | krka | (sorry for being a pain, but in my defense I am hoping I'll learn something from this) |
| 20:08.03 | Iriel | ok, now, rotate your picture so that your rectangle is now 'straight' |
| 20:08.10 | Tem | Iriel: How much does LayoutFrame cheat? Does it cheat enough to mess up my simulation's accuracy? |
| 20:09.09 | futrtrubl | Iriel, slouken just added a fix for 1.10 |
| 20:09.36 | krka | done |
| 20:10.03 | krka | so, the new rotated borders is my SetTexCoords+ |
| 20:10.12 | Iriel | Tem: All 'layout frame' is there in the wiki for is because there are N different functions with identical behaviors |
| 20:10.28 | Iriel | krka: yes |
| 20:10.43 | Iriel | krka: scaled obviously to normalize the rectangle back down to a square |
| 20:10.43 | krka | but then I still need one rectangle for each thickness? |
| 20:10.54 | Tem | Iriel: well I noticed a "LayoutFrame" definition in the shema |
| 20:11.02 | Iriel | Tem: yes, that's why we picked that name. |
| 20:11.05 | krka | but can you scale before rotating? |
| 20:11.06 | Tem | oh |
| 20:11.10 | Tem | well that makes sense |
| 20:11.14 | krka | i have only figured out how to stretch it afterwards |
| 20:11.43 | futrtrubl | Iriel, you saw the fix? |
| 20:12.14 | Iriel | futrtrubl : not yet, on a conf. call |
| 20:12.19 | Iriel | krka: It's just a matter of setting the coordinates |
| 20:12.46 | krka | not seeing how you can do that |
| 20:12.50 | futrtrubl | k |
| 20:13.02 | krka | hmm... or maybe I do |
| 20:13.08 | Iriel | krka: think about it a bit |
| 20:13.18 | Iriel | Logically it's a 2d transformation matrix |
| 20:13.26 | Tem | curses! I saw slouken post again in the item cache thread |
| 20:13.32 | Tem | so I thought it was good news |
| 20:13.45 | futrtrubl | ;'] |
| 20:13.58 | krka | not sure I am clever enough to actually implement this math though |
| 20:15.31 | Tem | what happens if you do Frame:SetPoint("CENTER") on a frame with no parent? |
| 20:15.49 | Iriel | I think there's an implied parent |
| 20:15.58 | Iriel | but I could be wrong |
| 20:15.59 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 20:16.00 | krka | yes, all frames have a parent I think |
| 20:16.13 | Tem | well GetParent still returns nil for them |
| 20:16.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-164-255.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 20:17.24 | End | well |
| 20:17.49 | End | remember, WorldFrame and UIParented don't have parents either... ;P |
| 20:17.58 | End | er |
| 20:18.01 | End | UIParent even |
| 20:18.09 | Tem | and while I'm thinking about it though it's completely off topic, Does anyone know of a free / opensource XML editor similar to Altova XML Spy? |
| 20:18.41 | krka | no, and let me know if you find one! |
| 20:18.48 | Iriel | I use emacs for my xml (nxml-mode) |
| 20:19.12 | Iriel | And I've created a .rnc file for validation from the UI.xsd |
| 20:20.04 | Iriel | That gets me indentation, validation, tab completion, and syntax coloring |
| 20:20.08 | krka | hmm... if I need to fsck my /home/, I should probably stop all user apps first right? |
| 20:20.24 | Iriel | generally if you're fsck'ing a drive you should unmount it |
| 20:20.28 | pagefault | and wear protection |
| 20:20.30 | krka | yeah, obviously |
| 20:20.44 | Iriel | so yes, you'd want to stop all user apps, otherwise you wont be able to unmount the drive |
| 20:20.53 | krka | annoying :) |
| 20:20.53 | krka | brb |
| 20:20.55 | Iriel | "safe" |
| 20:20.56 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 20:21.16 | Iriel | futrtrubl : Added that change to the 1.10 thread |
| 20:21.26 | Shouryuu | fsck a drive? |
| 20:21.31 | End | filesystem check |
| 20:21.43 | Shouryuu | oh ok |
| 20:22.49 | End | incidently, bad things happen if you force /usr to be dismounted |
| 20:22.55 | End | if the system is running |
| 20:23.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 20:23.40 | krka | damn it... any way to check which processes are using a partition? |
| 20:23.50 | Iriel | Bad things happen if you unmount pretty much any drive containing executables or libraries |
| 20:23.52 | Iriel | krka: lsof? |
| 20:24.06 | krka | thanks! |
| 20:24.25 | End | well |
| 20:24.27 | Iriel | there are other variations of that tool |
| 20:24.35 | End | if the exutable or libraries are running, yeah :P |
| 20:24.35 | Iriel | in case your system doesn't have lsof |
| 20:24.39 | krka | lsof | grep home should be enough I hope? |
| 20:24.40 | krka | yeah I have it |
| 20:24.41 | Iriel | End: Well, yes 8-) |
| 20:24.51 | Iriel | can't you give it a filesystem to check? |
| 20:24.51 | krka | off to try again then |
| 20:25.01 | krka | it doesn't want to do it if it's mounted |
| 20:25.10 | krka | well, I can force it, but linux generally give me good advice |
| 20:25.22 | krka | ah.... you meant lsof |
| 20:25.38 | Iriel | yes, I meant lsof 8-) |
| 20:26.31 | krka | lsof /dev/hda5 seems to work |
| 20:26.32 | krka | thanks |
| 20:27.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust242.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:30.59 | Tem | Well theres a surprize |
| 20:31.25 | Tem | calling Frame:SetPoint("CENTER") on a frame with no parent gives you a usage error |
| 20:31.45 | End | interesting... |
| 20:32.32 | futrtrubl | probalby calls GetParent or something internally to get the default frame for attachment, then does the usage check |
| 20:32.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (i=astrayca@moobilenet1-20.ucdavis.edu) |
| 20:32.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:32.58 | Tem | oh wait |
| 20:33.01 | Tem | no it doesn't |
| 20:33.10 | Tem | I must be doing something wrong |
| 20:33.13 | End | ? |
| 20:33.23 | Tem | I get a usage error even with a parent |
| 20:33.23 | End | !! |
| 20:33.28 | End | hrm |
| 20:33.33 | End | what's the error message? |
| 20:33.36 | Tem | Frame:SetPoint("CENTER") gives me an error |
| 20:34.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SP|Sorren (i=astrayca@moobilenet1-20.ucdavis.edu) |
| 20:35.23 | Tem | [string "frame:SetPoint("CENTER")"]:!: Usage: SetPoint("point"[, frame] [, "relativePoint"] [, offsetX, offsetY]) |
| 20:35.37 | End | hmm |
| 20:35.57 | Tem | althought I'm pretty sure Frame:SetPoint("CENTER") is a valid way to call it |
| 20:36.09 | End | I...think so too |
| 20:36.22 | Iriel | I seem to recall we had problems with this last week |
| 20:36.29 | Iriel | this being set point lying in its usage info |
| 20:37.40 | SP|Sorren | my school library clearly spared no expense at building their wireless infastructure. I'm sitting about 30 feet from the blasted WAP, with no obstructions and getting virtually no signal |
| 20:38.28 | AnduinLothar | get a giant antenna |
| 20:38.35 | AnduinLothar | directional |
| 20:38.53 | Iriel | is the wap you're sitting next to turned on? |
| 20:40.08 | SP|Sorren | yes |
| 20:40.14 | SP|Sorren | its little lights are blinking, i can see them |
| 20:40.36 | SP|Sorren | despite the fact that i forgot my contats :( |
| 20:40.36 | SP|Sorren | contacts |
| 20:40.37 | Iriel | so, krka, have you figured out your rectangle yet? |
| 20:40.46 | Tem | Can someone else try SetPoint to see if they can reproduce what I'm seeing? |
| 20:40.58 | Tem | In the meantime, I'm going to make a post about it |
| 20:41.03 | Iriel | Tem: I'm fairly sure someone ran into this last week |
| 20:41.20 | Iriel | Tem: That, despite what the usage says, you can't just do: Frame:SetPoint("ANCHOR") |
| 20:41.35 | Iriel | But post about it anyway |
| 20:41.46 | Tem | either way, something needs to be changed |
| 20:42.15 | Maldivia | hmm, does it have anything to do with the frame having a parent or not ? |
| 20:42.32 | SP|Sorren | ^sounds like a good theory |
| 20:43.36 | Tain | Which Tem already said doesn't matter if it's parented or not. |
| 20:43.43 | AnduinLothar | should |
| 20:44.03 | Maldivia | hmm, ok - missed that :) |
| 20:44.03 | Tem | it doesn't. I tried both ways |
| 20:44.16 | AnduinLothar | i missed the discussion, what's the problem? |
| 20:44.29 | Tain | Tem has syphillis. :( |
| 20:44.31 | AnduinLothar | usage error? |
| 20:44.44 | Maldivia | AnduinLothar: <Tem> [string "frame:SetPoint("CENTER")"]:!: Usage: SetPoint("point"[, frame] [, "relativePoint"] [, offsetX, offsetY]) |
| 20:44.57 | AnduinLothar | that's silly... lemme try |
| 20:45.55 | Maldivia | it appears that the frame parameter is needed, even though the usage-string suggests otherwise |
| 20:46.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Plorkyeran (n=Knightki@stwl66.resnet.neu.edu) |
| 20:46.32 | AnduinLothar | or maybe the hampsters took a lunch break |
| 20:46.48 | Maldivia | ohh, they replaces the mice with hamsters? |
| 20:47.00 | AnduinLothar | they live longer |
| 20:47.06 | Tain | I thought they were using squirrels |
| 20:47.12 | SP|Sorren | squirrels are too wiley |
| 20:47.17 | AnduinLothar | mechenical squirels are inefficient |
| 20:47.26 | Iriel | Can you omit frame, but give the offsets? |
| 20:47.38 | Iriel | i.e. Frame:SetPoint("CENTER",0,0) |
| 20:47.57 | Maldivia | yes |
| 20:48.08 | Maldivia | :SetPoint("CENTER",0,0) doesn't return an error |
| 20:48.15 | Tem | yes |
| 20:48.43 | Iriel | How about :SetPoint("CENTER","CENTER",0,0) |
| 20:48.51 | Tain | That should error |
| 20:48.53 | AnduinLothar | Error: [string "TargetFrame:SetPoint("CENTER")"]:1: Usage: SetPoint("point" [, frame] [, "relativePoint"] [, offsetX, offsetY]) |
| 20:49.06 | Maldivia | doesn't work - looks for a frame named "CENTER" to link to :) |
| 20:49.29 | AnduinLothar | SetPoint("CENTER",0,0) works |
| 20:50.00 | Iriel | so it's really an issue of poorly written usage |
| 20:50.03 | Natasem | hey ya'll anyone know anything about this UI Manager? http://wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3226 |
| 20:50.17 | End | that's really strange |
| 20:50.30 | End | hmmmm |
| 20:50.46 | AnduinLothar | that UIManager requires a static zip file url |
| 20:50.53 | Iriel | Natasem : I dont like it because it makes assumptions about the zip locations |
| 20:50.54 | AnduinLothar | like a latest.zip |
| 20:51.05 | Iriel | Natasem : And uses a poor choice of .toc entry to store it |
| 20:51.14 | End | yeahg |
| 20:51.35 | Tem | And it looks like Frame:SetPoint("CENTER",0,0) on an orphan frame uses UIParent |
| 20:51.35 | Maldivia | the following works, is seems: SetPoint(point, x, y) -- SetPoint(point, frame, x, y) -- SetPoint(point, frame, point2, x, y) |
| 20:51.42 | AnduinLothar | so if you're hosting your own files it's file, but if you're using one of the common sites it wont work unless the site has redirects |
| 20:51.59 | AnduinLothar | fine* |
| 20:52.17 | Maldivia | Actually, SetPoint(point, x) works aswell |
| 20:52.21 | Natasem | ok thannks, i like to ask here first ya know mane a census, expecially since the trojan scare |
| 20:52.39 | Natasem | mane= make |
| 20:53.11 | Maldivia | hmm, no - SetPoint(point, x) -- ignores the x parameter, and centers it |
| 20:53.23 | Maldivia | (if point = "CENTER" it centers :) |
| 20:54.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (i=astrayca@moobilenet1-20.ucdavis.edu) |
| 20:55.08 | stray`laptop | curse you WAP |
| 20:55.21 | Maldivia | WAP... ouch... |
| 20:55.29 | Maldivia | time to CTCP flood... :) |
| 20:56.40 | AnduinLothar | ahh, i see wowi does actually have redirects trhough php |
| 20:57.00 | AnduinLothar | ex: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/download.php?id=4327 always links to the latest Sea zip |
| 20:57.35 | AnduinLothar | so it might work with wowi, but it wont work with curse |
| 20:58.16 | AnduinLothar | that and there's no mac version, so I wont use it :P |
| 21:02.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@88.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:06.30 | Beladona | we need an apt-get style update system (repositories) for interfaces |
| 21:07.30 | Beladona | hell, the same could hold true for blizzard updates |
| 21:12.55 | Maldivia | Tem: it's not UIParent, it's the screen -- otherwise UIParent:SetPoint wouldn't work :) |
| 21:13.16 | Tem | the "screen"? |
| 21:13.29 | Maldivia | well, don't know how else to put it :) |
| 21:13.56 | Maldivia | the WoW-window |
| 21:14.02 | Maldivia | call it what ever you want :) |
| 21:14.22 | Iriel | "Mysterious nil-Root" |
| 21:14.43 | Tem | bah it's 3:15 and I haven't had lunch yet |
| 21:15.20 | Maldivia | Iriel: that works aswell :) |
| 21:15.27 | ToastTheif | def 4:15 |
| 21:15.44 | Tem|food | ok, I think I understand now |
| 21:15.55 | Tem|food | I'll make my SetPoint implementation work when I get back |
| 21:16.09 | Tem|food | and I'll even make GetRight ect work too! |
| 21:19.05 | Maldivia | hmm... GetWidth and GetTop on frames do not update with scale / anchors? |
| 21:19.43 | AnduinLothar | top does, width doesn't |
| 21:21.09 | Maldivia | yeah ok - it was GetWidth and GetHeight I meant... but I guess height doesn't either |
| 21:21.24 | Iriel | Width should be scale invariant |
| 21:21.45 | Iriel | unless the width is caused by anchors |
| 21:22.45 | Maldivia | for instance frame:ClearAllPoints(); frame:SetPoint("LEFT", UIParent); frame:SetPoint("RIGHT", UIParent); |
| 21:23.24 | Maldivia | the frame is now as wide as UIParent... but GetWidth() return the XML defined width (or what SetWidth is set to, I guess) |
| 21:23.53 | Iriel | ah |
| 21:23.59 | Iriel | annoying, font strings work that way too |
| 21:24.27 | Iriel | getwidth returns desired width if set, actual width otherwise |
| 21:24.34 | AnduinLothar | right, which makes resizable lists of strings very annoying |
| 21:24.43 | AnduinLothar | liek trees |
| 21:24.54 | Maldivia | the same with UIParent:GetWidth() => 960 - even though it's around 1200 with my scaling |
| 21:24.55 | Iriel | can you subtract right and left? |
| 21:25.00 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 21:25.13 | Iriel | so GetActualWidth can at least be implemented |
| 21:25.32 | Maldivia | ohh... |
| 21:25.34 | AnduinLothar | as long as GetRight isn't nil... |
| 21:25.49 | Maldivia | frame:SetWidth(0); message(frame:GetWidth()) |
| 21:25.56 | Maldivia | returns the actual width |
| 21:26.10 | AnduinLothar | oh? |
| 21:26.25 | Maldivia | or well, the width, without scaling |
| 21:26.28 | AnduinLothar | so reset width to 0 after anchoring perhaps.. |
| 21:26.57 | AnduinLothar | does it work if it's anchored to something movable and it moves, changing the size? |
| 21:27.34 | Maldivia | hmm, tricky... lets see if I have anything like that :) |
| 21:27.56 | AnduinLothar | have to anchor two sides or cornors |
| 21:28.02 | AnduinLothar | so that it streches |
| 21:28.35 | AnduinLothar | like anchor a frame to two minimap buttons and move the buttons |
| 21:29.10 | Maldivia | yep - GetWidth returns actual width, even if parent is resized |
| 21:29.40 | Maldivia | if SetWidth(0) is called, that is |
| 21:29.55 | AnduinLothar | each time u resize? |
| 21:30.06 | Iriel | Just once, I would imagine |
| 21:30.07 | Maldivia | I've just called SetWidth(0) once |
| 21:30.37 | Shouryuu | rawr out |
| 21:30.43 | Maldivia | anchored a frame to LEFT and RIGHT of UIParent, and reanchored UIParent, and the frame:GetWidth() changed, when I reanchored UIParent |
| 21:43.58 | Maldivia | Iriel: :) |
| 21:45.21 | GenNMX | ToastTheif: That might be a while, try Onenon until then. |
| 21:49.04 | Maldivia | Iriel: about the wiki - looking over the Widget API, shouldn't there be a IsShown() on LayoutFrame now, instead of on FontString and on Frame ? |
| 21:49.10 | ToastTheif | Onenon? |
| 21:49.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:49.41 | Tem|food | Oh rofl! |
| 21:49.56 | Tem|food | ToastTheif: http://www.onepeat.com/ |
| 21:50.22 | Iriel | Maldivia : Probably, let me see why I didn't add it. |
| 21:50.38 | ToastTheif | ... |
| 21:50.49 | Maldivia | Iriel: I figured it wasn't there prior to 1.9, because fontstring didn't have a IsShown before 1.9 |
| 21:51.17 | ToastTheif | WHAT IS Onenon? |
| 21:51.19 | Iriel | LayoutFrame is an 'invention' in one of my scripts (as far as that page is concerned) so it does have to be manually maintained, it's quite possible I just forgot |
| 21:51.41 | Maldivia | would just make sense, since the IsVisible description refers to IsShown |
| 21:52.38 | Maldivia | same with Texture, also has a IsShown now |
| 21:56.38 | Maldivia | although, FontString.IsShown is not the same "physical" function as Frame.IsShown, they have the same behavior |
| 21:56.57 | Iriel | yes, that's why my script has the list |
| 21:58.00 | Maldivia | but Frame.IsVisible is not the same "physical function" as FontString.IsVisible - but listed as such on the wiki |
| 21:58.33 | Maldivia | so there's an inconsistency there |
| 21:59.10 | Iriel | The only inconsistency is that I forgot to add 'IsShown' to my layout frame methods array 8-) |
| 22:00.29 | Maldivia | hmm... ok :) |
| 22:01.09 | Iriel | *mutters* about people screwing with the wiki who dont know what they're doing (Someone mixed up the two AddMessage functions) |
| 22:01.59 | AnduinLothar | two? |
| 22:03.12 | Iriel | MessageFrame / ScrollingMessageFrame |
| 22:03.14 | Maldivia | ScrollingMessageFrame and MessageFrame |
| 22:03.15 | Iriel | they have different parameters |
| 22:04.25 | AnduinLothar | news to me, but then i dont think i've ever tried for anything but the chat frames |
| 22:05.27 | Iriel | MessageFrame has fade time |
| 22:05.34 | Iriel | ScrollingMessageFrame has the color ID |
| 22:05.37 | id` | Anyone know the config.wtf parameter for using opengl and windowed mode? or a place where i can find it? |
| 22:05.46 | Iriel | Isn't it a command line param |
| 22:05.54 | Tem | -opengl |
| 22:05.59 | AnduinLothar | oh right, the ErrorFrame is a message frame not a scrolling one, right? |
| 22:06.01 | Fanook | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.04 | Tem | and I'd guess -w for windowed |
| 22:06.16 | Iriel | right |
| 22:06.17 | id` | no, config.wtf |
| 22:06.18 | Iriel | (to AnduinLothar ) |
| 22:06.22 | id` | i want it permanently |
| 22:06.38 | Fanook | [12:43] <[MoonWolf]> SET gxApi "opengl" |
| 22:06.39 | Fanook | [12:43] <[MoonWolf]> SET gxColorBits "24" |
| 22:06.39 | Fanook | [12:43] <[MoonWolf]> SET gxDepthBits "24" |
| 22:06.39 | Fanook | [12:43] <[MoonWolf]> SET gxResolution "1280x1024" |
| 22:06.39 | Fanook | [ |
| 22:06.41 | id` | ah thanks |
| 22:06.56 | id` | Fanook, it went out of my chat buffer and forgot to write it down :< |
| 22:07.03 | Fanook | ah |
| 22:07.52 | ToastTheif | what is Onenon? |
| 22:08.27 | Beladona | SET gxWindow "1" |
| 22:08.32 | id` | woot thanks |
| 22:08.33 | Beladona | for windowed mode |
| 22:08.33 | id` | :D |
| 22:08.43 | id` | was just going to google for it :< |
| 22:08.44 | Beladona | setting yours up on linux? |
| 22:08.48 | id` | no, windows |
| 22:08.56 | Beladona | why opengl? |
| 22:08.57 | id` | but i just logged in with -opengl |
| 22:09.05 | id` | in the middle of IF |
| 22:09.06 | Iriel | Maldivia : Wiki updated |
| 22:09.15 | Iriel | Maldivia : Thanks for pointing that out |
| 22:09.26 | id` | Beladona, i have 15fps normally when theres no action, going to see what opengl does for me |
| 22:09.31 | id` | i dont care if its butt ugly |
| 22:09.35 | Beladona | its not |
| 22:09.42 | id` | im used to playing Quake 1 and Half-life:TFC |
| 22:09.43 | Beladona | looks fine to me |
| 22:09.44 | id` | ;) |
| 22:09.56 | ToastTheif | hey Industrial |
| 22:09.58 | Maldivia | Iriel: move Frame:IsShown to LayoutFrame:IsShown ? |
| 22:10.12 | ToastTheif | occasionally with my lvl 5 char, idChat fails |
| 22:10.17 | id` | :O |
| 22:10.19 | ToastTheif | the buttons randomly show up |
| 22:10.19 | id` | any error? |
| 22:10.21 | id` | yeah |
| 22:10.22 | ToastTheif | no |
| 22:10.24 | Iriel | Beladona Beladona Beladona , you're the editor who messed up AddMessage! |
| 22:10.25 | id` | thats a bug :( |
| 22:10.29 | ToastTheif | just randomly showing up =/ |
| 22:10.34 | Beladona | what? |
| 22:10.36 | Iriel | Maldivia : yes, I cleaned up some othr stuff too |
| 22:10.40 | id` | when you click a tab ToastTheif |
| 22:10.40 | ToastTheif | whats up with that? |
| 22:10.56 | Iriel | Beladona : On the widget API, "Beladona" is the name on the edits I jusyt had to un-do |
| 22:10.59 | id` | dunno :| couldnt get firshow to get an event or something |
| 22:11.04 | Iriel | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Widget_API&diff=54155&oldid=53842 |
| 22:11.04 | id` | fireshow* |
| 22:11.09 | Beladona | ok was wrong with it? |
| 22:11.21 | ToastTheif | well did you hide the buttons for all the frames? |
| 22:11.22 | Maldivia | Iriel: it wasn't Beladona... |
| 22:11.33 | Maldivia | (cur) (last) 00:52, 7 Feb 2005 Lego (API MessageFrame AddMessage moved to API ScrollingMessageFrame AddMessage) |
| 22:11.53 | id` | ToastTheif, yes it does that, but somehow they get reshown |
| 22:11.55 | Iriel | The change i'm looking at wsa |
| 22:11.57 | Iriel | was |
| 22:12.01 | ToastTheif | hmmmmmmmmm |
| 22:12.01 | Iriel | I dont know about the actual pages themselves |
| 22:12.14 | id` | hmm indeed |
| 22:12.18 | Iriel | This was more recent than lego's change |
| 22:12.23 | Iriel | Dec 16th |
| 22:12.51 | Beladona | would love to know what was wrong with it |
| 22:13.02 | Maldivia | from what I can see from Beladonas changes, they are mearly grammar and rewritings... not changes of meaning/parameters |
| 22:13.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stray`laptop (i=astrayca@d170-140.primero-2.ucdavis.edu) |
| 22:13.25 | Iriel | someone swapped 'id' and 'holdTime' |
| 22:13.25 | Beladona | I changed ScrollingMessageFrame:AddMessage |
| 22:13.31 | Beladona | holdTime is valid |
| 22:13.32 | Iriel | between the two instances |
| 22:13.36 | Beladona | on ScrollingMessageFrames |
| 22:13.37 | Iriel | It's valid for Message Frame |
| 22:13.38 | ToastTheif | ChatFrameMenuButton:Hide() theres only one MenuButton, right? |
| 22:13.40 | Iriel | NOT for ScrollingMessageFrame |
| 22:13.46 | Beladona | what? |
| 22:13.50 | Beladona | I beg to differ |
| 22:13.50 | id` | thats the little menu thingy yes |
| 22:13.54 | id` | the balloon |
| 22:14.00 | Iriel | ScollingMessageFrame (the chat windows) uses an id number, for color changing en-masse |
| 22:14.03 | id` | ots the other three that reappear |
| 22:14.07 | Beladona | holdtime sets the length of time before the text fades out from the frame |
| 22:14.30 | ToastTheif | mhmm |
| 22:14.39 | Beladona | so did I get it backwards or something? |
| 22:14.45 | Iriel | ScrollingMessageFrame:SetTimeVisible(seconds) - Sets how long lines remain visible. |
| 22:14.51 | Maldivia | Beladona: ScrollingMessageFrame, for instance ChatFrames - doesn't have a hold time |
| 22:14.51 | ToastTheif | does ChatScroll do that? |
| 22:15.06 | id` | dinnae |
| 22:15.07 | id` | :| |
| 22:15.15 | Iriel | so yes, you got it backwards (it was right, you reversed it) |
| 22:15.18 | ToastTheif | we should check.. |
| 22:15.20 | Iriel | Anyway, it's fixed now. |
| 22:15.27 | id` | yes but in a sec |
| 22:15.30 | id` | im testing cosmos |
| 22:15.31 | id` | :D:D |
| 22:15.34 | Maldivia | Iriel: and yes, was looking at the wrong change :) |
| 22:15.46 | Iriel | for ScrollingMessageFrames, the fade time is set for the whole window |
| 22:15.47 | ToastTheif | testing Cosmos? |
| 22:15.52 | id` | but that needs me to be logged in first |
| 22:15.54 | Maldivia | or well |
| 22:15.59 | id` | ToastTheif, yes i might rip some things from it |
| 22:16.06 | ToastTheif | lol like what? |
| 22:16.14 | id` | dunno, thats the problem! |
| 22:16.20 | id` | =P |
| 22:16.28 | Beladona | so ti just needs to be swapped |
| 22:16.31 | Beladona | want me to do it? |
| 22:16.41 | id` | ok opengl doesnt work :| |
| 22:16.48 | id` | one frame update every minute |
| 22:16.51 | id` | :E |
| 22:16.53 | Maldivia | id`: OpenGL is fubar on Windoes :) |
| 22:16.59 | id` | not on halflife 1 |
| 22:17.00 | id` | it isnt |
| 22:17.05 | Maldivia | well, in WoW it is :) |
| 22:17.10 | id` | yeah :( |
| 22:17.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 22:17.25 | id` | hi krka |
| 22:17.30 | krka | hi |
| 22:17.37 | krka | I am pissed off at my cd-burner now :/ |
| 22:17.38 | Gryphen | heya |
| 22:17.53 | krka | either my filesystem is being weird, my burner is being weird or the media is bad |
| 22:18.03 | ToastTheif | ok Indy |
| 22:18.05 | Tem | I'm pissed off at the forum software |
| 22:18.14 | ToastTheif | Im about 90% sure I know what the prob is |
| 22:18.17 | Tem | it constantly bugs and doesn't log which threads I've seen |
| 22:18.28 | Tem | so it shows threads as having new content when it shouldn't |
| 22:18.33 | Tem | and that annoys the poo out of me |
| 22:18.37 | id` | ToastTheif, pm |
| 22:19.48 | krka | if anyone is good with debugging burning-problems in linux, let me know |
| 22:20.14 | ToastTheif | yep |
| 22:20.18 | ToastTheif | look in the PM |
| 22:24.22 | Tem | What widget type is UIParent? |
| 22:24.25 | Tem | "Frame"? |
| 22:24.52 | Maldivia | yep |
| 22:25.07 | Tem | ok |
| 22:25.14 | Maldivia | /dump UIParent:GetFrameType() |
| 22:25.36 | Tem | and is the WolrdFrame type basically just a LayoutFrame? |
| 22:25.51 | Tem | er, |
| 22:25.53 | Tem | a frame |
| 22:26.28 | Maldivia | WorldFrame:GetFrameType() returns "Frame" |
| 22:26.31 | ToastTheif | yar ok |
| 22:26.35 | ToastTheif | now that idChat is fixed |
| 22:26.46 | ToastTheif | when is onebag getting it's fix :( |
| 22:27.02 | Tem | thanks |
| 22:29.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 22:35.42 | Beladona | back shortly, going home |
| 22:36.05 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26) |
| 23:02.52 | Tem | Suppose a frame is anchored on it's topright point to some arbitrary point, lets say (0,0) for now |
| 23:03.12 | Tem | then Frame:GetRight() would return 0 |
| 23:03.35 | Tem | now assume another anchor is applied to the same frame |
| 23:03.41 | Tem | at it's bottomright anchor |
| 23:03.53 | Tem | a point (10,0) |
| 23:03.58 | Tem | at* point |
| 23:04.06 | Tem | what does GetRight now return? |
| 23:07.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 23:09.34 | Maldivia | Tem: doesn't GetLeft/Right always return "screen coordinates" ? |
| 23:09.40 | Tem | yeah |
| 23:09.55 | Tem | but what would be the screen coord of it now |
| 23:10.02 | Tem | which anchor takes precedence? |
| 23:10.14 | Tem | or does it average or some other goofy method |
| 23:10.29 | Maldivia | hmm, I think first anchor takes precedence... let me check |
| 23:10.54 | krka | what'cha talking about? overspecifying anchors? |
| 23:10.57 | Iriel | Or do you get a constraint violation and the window disappears? |
| 23:11.46 | Iriel | krka: Overspecifying CONFLICTING anchors |
| 23:11.53 | krka | that's what I meant |
| 23:12.07 | AnduinLothar | what'd u try to conflict? |
| 23:12.11 | krka | easy enough to test, isn't it? |
| 23:12.17 | AnduinLothar | I've made negative width frames before |
| 23:12.41 | AnduinLothar | the border corers still show but the sides and bg don't |
| 23:12.42 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Topright and bottom right anchors with different X coordinates |
| 23:12.50 | Iriel | not negative width tho |
| 23:13.08 | AnduinLothar | my guess is that the most recently called anchor wins |
| 23:13.08 | Iriel | say, x at 0, and top right with x=100 and bottom right with x=110 |
| 23:13.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 23:13.27 | krka | i would guess that the first anchor keeps control |
| 23:13.34 | krka | or the latest does |
| 23:13.36 | krka | :) |
| 23:13.41 | AnduinLothar | unless it actually decided to make non rectangular frames all fo a sudden |
| 23:13.46 | krka | or wow dies in a flaming crash |
| 23:13.58 | Maldivia | Tem: m:ClearAllPoints(); m:SetPoint("TOPRIGHT", UIParent, 0, 0); m:GetRight => 1170.73; m:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", UIParent, 10, 0); m:GetRight() => 1170.73 |
| 23:14.17 | AnduinLothar | well i know if you reanchor the same corner the most recent call wins |
| 23:14.39 | Tem | thank Maldivia |
| 23:14.43 | Tem | thanks |
| 23:15.03 | krka | that test shows that the first call wins, right? |
| 23:15.12 | Iriel | yeah, that's how I read it |
| 23:15.36 | AnduinLothar | try it negative, it might be that the larger size wins |
| 23:15.53 | AnduinLothar | er, backwards not negative |
| 23:16.18 | krka | maybe it's completely random who wins :) |
| 23:16.43 | krka | to get an uncertainty of 2^-n, set it n times |
| 23:16.47 | krka | or something |
| 23:16.51 | Iriel | Well, re-anchoring the same corner doesn't introduce a conflict (To AnduinLothar's point) |
| 23:16.53 | AnduinLothar | ok krka, to play the game you can't predict nebulous catch alls, that's my job |
| 23:16.59 | Maldivia | hmm... |
| 23:17.45 | Maldivia | m:ClearAllPoints();m:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", UIParent, -25, -25); m:SetPoint("TOPRIGHT", UIParent, 0, 0); |
| 23:18.00 | Maldivia | TOPRIGHT wins on x-offset |
| 23:18.22 | krka | interesting |
| 23:18.25 | AnduinLothar | so, second call that time |
| 23:18.28 | krka | maybe it's closest to 0 that wins |
| 23:18.38 | AnduinLothar | i still vote for largest |
| 23:19.08 | Maldivia | m:ClearAllPoints(); m:SetPoint("TOPRIGHT", UIParent, -100, -100); m:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", UIParent, -25, -25); <-- -100 wins |
| 23:19.12 | krka | larger isn't always better! |
| 23:19.24 | Tem | krka: that's a lie |
| 23:19.27 | Iriel | I think if Tem posted a 'I'm trying to simulate frame placement and want to know what the conflict resolution rules are'... |
| 23:19.38 | Iriel | .. then slouken may well be interested enough to answer |
| 23:19.54 | Tem | honestly, the frame placement stuff is fluff |
| 23:20.07 | Tem | I'm just a perfectionist |
| 23:20.11 | Iriel | Though if you're writing a test framework |
| 23:20.11 | Maldivia | TOPRIGHT seems to have precedence over BOTTOMRIGHT when it comes to the RIGHT x-offset |
| 23:20.21 | krka | when would we ever need to know how this is handled btw? |
| 23:20.26 | Tem | Iriel: that's exactly what I'm doing |
| 23:20.31 | Iriel | maybe detecting conflicting anchors and emitting diagnostics owuld be better |
| 23:20.35 | Iriel | (I figured) |
| 23:21.08 | Iriel | Because it'll be inherently unsafe to rely on how it could handle that case, In my opnion. |
| 23:21.36 | krka | well, who rights code like that? :) |
| 23:21.47 | krka | . |
| 23:21.49 | Iriel | Like what? Conflicting anchors? |
| 23:21.52 | krka | I can't WRITE at all :( |
| 23:22.02 | krka | usually a sign of needed sleep |
| 23:22.07 | krka | yes |
| 23:22.08 | Tem | And I also have a far off goal of writing a way to render frames |
| 23:22.13 | Iriel | I'm sure it's all over the place, not necessarily deliberately, but throw in a couple of users with moveanything and voila! |
| 23:22.16 | Tem | because the wow ui designer isn't enough for me |
| 23:22.51 | Iriel | Tem: Are you writing your framework in lua? |
| 23:22.55 | Tem | Iriel: yes |
| 23:23.06 | Iriel | Cool. |
| 23:23.07 | AnduinLothar | no one in their right mind. I'd be satisfied if i could easily make FontStrings re-evaluate their text size based on width of the FontString using anchors and without having to redeclare the width |
| 23:23.18 | Maldivia | Tem, just some minor tests - it seems, for the RIGHT side, TOPRIGHT > RIGHT > BOTTOMRIGHT, when determining who sets the x-offset |
| 23:23.36 | Iriel | Regardless of values? |
| 23:23.42 | Maldivia | so it seems |
| 23:23.53 | Tem | Thanks |
| 23:24.07 | krka | what if you give a nil value? :) |
| 23:24.10 | Tem | I think I'll just leave GetRight, ect methods are noops for now |
| 23:24.23 | Tem | let me try that again |
| 23:24.41 | Iriel | That'll be easier than implementing an anchor constraint solver anyway |
| 23:24.42 | Tem | I think I'll just leave the GetRight, GetTop, ect... method as no-ops for now |
| 23:26.02 | krka | tem, what are you working on exactly? |
| 23:26.22 | Tem | A framework for 1.10 frames |
| 23:26.31 | krka | a framework that does what? |
| 23:26.40 | Tem | simulates Frames |
| 23:26.41 | krka | generally handles frames? |
| 23:26.46 | krka | ah... simulates |
| 23:26.50 | Maldivia | hmm, go GetWidth() returns width, but without scale-modification, where as GetLeft() and GetRight() returns with scale modification |
| 23:26.53 | krka | hm... why? :) |
| 23:27.04 | Tem | because I'm impatient |
| 23:27.07 | krka | lol |
| 23:27.13 | Tem | I want CreateFrame now |
| 23:27.19 | krka | heh |
| 23:27.23 | Tem | so I'm writing an environment that I can use it in |
| 23:28.02 | AnduinLothar | ...that sounds like lots of extra work |
| 23:28.22 | Iriel | I dunno, I think it sounds like a ton of fun |
| 23:29.16 | krka | you have weird ways of entertaining yourself :) |
| 23:29.52 | Tem | funny, I agree |
| 23:29.57 | Tem | I am enjoying it |
| 23:30.01 | Tem | a lot |
| 23:30.41 | Iriel | Hopefully you'll be able to fill in lots of wiki gaps while you go (*hint hint*) |
| 23:30.57 | Maldivia | hehe |
| 23:31.17 | AnduinLothar | oh, i don't doubt it would be fun |
| 23:31.41 | Tem | lol |
| 23:31.41 | AnduinLothar | And if it means i can make frames w/o launching wow, more power to ya |
| 23:31.56 | AnduinLothar | just write it in something cross platform |
| 23:32.10 | AnduinLothar | browser based would be even cooler |
| 23:32.16 | Tem | um |
| 23:32.19 | Tem | it's lua |
| 23:32.30 | AnduinLothar | so |
| 23:32.35 | Tem | and it's not meant for rendering frames |
| 23:32.47 | AnduinLothar | ? so it's just for debugging? |
| 23:32.51 | Tem | it's meant for me to play with CreateFrame |
| 23:33.03 | AnduinLothar | mmk |
| 23:34.18 | Tem | but I'm convinced that a CSS file could be written to allow rendering of frames in a browser |
| 23:34.44 | Tem | a little JS might be needed for some of the anchoring nonsense |
| 23:34.57 | Tem | but they seem to work pretty well together |
| 23:35.01 | AnduinLothar | they do |
| 23:36.02 | AnduinLothar | be cool if you could combine it with an editor my paste-bin |
| 23:36.08 | AnduinLothar | like* |
| 23:36.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 23:40.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 23:41.03 | krka | hmm... maybe my memory is bad |
| 23:41.08 | krka | have to run a memtest I think |
| 23:41.40 | krka | does anyone have any ideas on why a dvd-burner could fail randomly while burning? |
| 23:42.30 | Iriel | bad media |
| 23:42.31 | Iriel | bad power |
| 23:42.33 | Iriel | bad burner |
| 23:42.36 | Iriel | poor buffering |
| 23:42.40 | Iriel | lousy I/O on source device |
| 23:42.51 | Iriel | busy CPU while burning (coupled with buffering) |
| 23:42.54 | krka | the burner worked on other media before |
| 23:43.09 | krka | don't think it's my harddrive io or cpu |
| 23:43.17 | krka | tried it with nothing else running |
| 23:43.28 | Iriel | Buffer underruns are a bitch, though I would have imagined your burning software would check for those |
| 23:43.41 | Iriel | Are you burning too fast for the media you're using? |
| 23:43.49 | krka | not really |
| 23:43.52 | krka | burning as slow as I can |
| 23:43.58 | AnduinLothar | my roomie's burner was doing that |
| 23:44.04 | AnduinLothar | he replaced it |
| 23:44.13 | krka | though i don't seem to be in much control of it, growisofs seems to choose itself |
| 23:44.34 | AnduinLothar | dvd burners are cheep now, think he paid $50 |
| 23:44.42 | Iriel | I always try and buy burners with large onboard buffers |
| 23:45.41 | krka | that's what this cost :P |
| 23:45.56 | krka | i think this is 2 meg |
| 23:54.06 | Corrodias | buffer underrun? that shouldn't happen with any drive made in the last few years |
| 23:54.29 | Iriel | Corrodias : unless your cpu is off doing something else |
| 23:54.44 | Corrodias | they pause the burning and resume when the buffer is full again |
| 23:54.51 | Iriel | or you're doing an optical-optical copy with a less than ideal source media |
| 23:54.58 | Iriel | I'm not sure that works does it for DAO burns? |
| 23:55.05 | Corrodias | at least, CD burners do. i can't be sure about DVD burners. |
| 23:56.01 | krka | this sux, i have wasted like 7 dvds now |
