| 00:00.01 | Legorol | i suspect this has something to do with the new layout optimization |
| 00:00.06 | AnduinLothar | whats i been missin? |
| 00:00.07 | Iriel | Yeah |
| 00:00.09 | Legorol | because you don't have to call SetOwner repeatedly, enough to call it once |
| 00:00.09 | Iriel | almost certainly |
| 00:00.11 | zeeg | 11pm cst |
| 00:00.11 | zeeg | ok |
| 00:00.12 | Legorol | once per login |
| 00:00.16 | zeeg | thats cool ill be here if he can then Cair |
| 00:00.24 | Cair | *nod* |
| 00:00.31 | Legorol | i will post about this for slouken, but i suspect it's going to stay as it is |
| 00:01.20 | Legorol | oh hum, let me correct myself |
| 00:01.24 | Legorol | not enough to call it once per login session |
| 00:01.37 | Legorol | if you did tooltip:Hide(), you need to call SetOwner again before you can use Setxxxx |
| 00:02.55 | Iriel | Hm, did test just crash or did I idle off? |
| 00:03.11 | zeeg | did someone post about getLocale for me |
| 00:03.21 | Iriel | What did you need posting? |
| 00:03.32 | zeeg | Iriel, can you go post on the forums for me, "Reminder for slouken" "getLocale returns enUS for enGB, need a way to tell if the client is enGB" |
| 00:03.46 | Iriel | I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be Zeeg |
| 00:03.46 | zeeg | something along those lines |
| 00:03.58 | zeeg | Iriel, ya thats what he said, but he said post and he'd see what he couold do :P |
| 00:04.04 | Iriel | Since getLocale is intended only to determine which language to display text in |
| 00:04.05 | Legorol | Iriel, yes, but we should request that it be changed |
| 00:04.13 | Legorol | that's not entirely true |
| 00:04.15 | Iriel | Ok |
| 00:04.17 | Legorol | the enGB client does have localization |
| 00:04.19 | Iriel | I'll post something then. |
| 00:04.25 | Legorol | e.g. URLs and things like that |
| 00:04.25 | zeeg | thanks |
| 00:04.45 | Legorol | there is a Localization.lua in FrameXML that is different between US and GB clients |
| 00:05.16 | Legorol | actually, zeeg, you could use that to detect client locale, couldn't you? |
| 00:05.21 | zeeg | Legorol, i use the login server |
| 00:05.27 | zeeg | but it'd be easier if there was an *actual* method |
| 00:05.28 | Legorol | hohum? |
| 00:05.33 | Legorol | how do you determine login server from Lua? |
| 00:05.39 | zeeg | sec i forgot, sarf gave me the code |
| 00:05.40 | zeeg | let me look |
| 00:05.49 | zeeg | its an ENV variable or w/e |
| 00:06.07 | Industrial | can i do this? getglobal('ChatFrameMenuButton'):Hide() |
| 00:06.17 | zeeg | if(wg_data["locale"] == "enUS" and GetCVar("realmList") == "eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com") then |
| 00:06.20 | Legorol | why not do ChatFrameMenuButton:Hide() |
| 00:06.31 | Legorol | ah, there is a CVar for realmlist? |
| 00:06.32 | Legorol | didn't know |
| 00:06.37 | Industrial | Legorol: for that one, yes but im going to loop thgough all those buttons for all frames |
| 00:06.47 | Legorol | sure, you can |
| 00:06.50 | Industrial | k |
| 00:06.58 | Industrial | can i do it ingame with /script ? |
| 00:06.58 | Industrial | :D |
| 00:07.00 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:07.09 | Industrial | yay works |
| 00:07.10 | Industrial | thanks |
| 00:07.16 | Legorol | ingame /script is identical (within very few exceptions) to AddOn's Lua codes |
| 00:07.25 | Legorol | syntax wise its identical |
| 00:07.34 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/posted.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=270141 |
| 00:07.34 | Legorol | and even API-wise |
| 00:07.42 | Iriel | Does that cover your request adequately? |
| 00:07.49 | zeeg | <3 |
| 00:08.19 | zeeg | now if you want to show even more love, go beta my patcher! :P |
| 00:08.28 | Iriel | All in good time |
| 00:08.38 | Iriel | I'm in the middle of texture transformations at the moment |
| 00:10.09 | Cair | ROFL Iriel |
| 00:10.33 | Cair | bit of a Freudian slip in that post dear? |
| 00:11.08 | Iriel | You WOULD notice that |
| 00:11.13 | Cair | of course! |
| 00:11.30 | Cair | *snicker* |
| 00:11.48 | Iriel | Is that a deck of blizzcon playing cards in my pocket or am I just pleased to see you? |
| 00:11.48 | Guillotine | cide: Kerund of Draenor says CTRA is awesome |
| 00:11.58 | Guillotine | lol |
| 00:11.59 | Cair | *purr* |
| 00:12.03 | Cide | sweet |
| 00:12.08 | Cide | glad someone likes it |
| 00:13.43 | AnduinLothar | ok, so i started playing my ipod through itunes, switched screen names, ejected my ipod... and it kept playing music. and it's still playing 30 min later... just hapilly shuffling and mixing through new songs as if it were plugged in.. |
| 00:14.12 | AnduinLothar | it's like it buffered in the whole music list.. |
| 00:14.23 | tyndral | say... flightpath from IF -> Chillwind directly. is that a new thing? |
| 00:14.28 | AnduinLothar | yes, 1.9 |
| 00:14.37 | tyndral | right, that explains why i never noticed it. |
| 00:14.39 | Iriel | For the ipod to play anything it has to be 'local' to the ipod |
| 00:14.42 | tyndral | [it's a Good Thing] |
| 00:14.50 | Tain | iTunes will by default copy all of your music locally to your PC. |
| 00:14.58 | Tain | Or Mac or what'er |
| 00:15.00 | AnduinLothar | oh? |
| 00:15.11 | AnduinLothar | since when? |
| 00:15.16 | Iriel | Since always AFAIK |
| 00:15.18 | Tain | Since... always? |
| 00:15.28 | Tain | Unless you tell it specifically not to. |
| 00:15.28 | tyndral | so that's a +2 for 1.9, then. +1 for linked AH. +1 for Multiple BG Queues +1 for new flightpath. -1 for naff fireworks on hunter shots. |
| 00:15.29 | AnduinLothar | it just copies the whole ipod to disk when u plug it in? |
| 00:15.35 | Iriel | Yes, pretty much |
| 00:15.39 | Tain | When you use iTunes to play. |
| 00:15.55 | Iriel | +1 for 8-arg SetTexCoord |
| 00:16.00 | AnduinLothar | interesting. then deletes it eventually i hope? |
| 00:16.01 | Iriel | +1 for fixing SetScale |
| 00:16.06 | Iriel | +1 for fixing UI rendering |
| 00:16.15 | tyndral | haven't played with it yet, but i'll take your word for it being all good :) |
| 00:16.18 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Probably not, that's not the 'design' of iTunes/iPod |
| 00:16.30 | Tain | No, it keeps it there. |
| 00:16.31 | AnduinLothar | no, i mean there's no local copy on this computer |
| 00:16.34 | Iriel | +0,5 for fixing the SetBindings data leak |
| 00:16.40 | Tain | Are you using a Mac or PC? |
| 00:16.44 | AnduinLothar | i got this music from a different comp |
| 00:16.45 | AnduinLothar | mac |
| 00:16.53 | AnduinLothar | it's not on auto update |
| 00:16.55 | tyndral | -2 for SaveBindings() causing a desktop exit. |
| 00:16.59 | Tain | I don't know where it stores it then. I know on the PC! |
| 00:17.10 | AnduinLothar | no, i mean it didn't copy.. |
| 00:17.24 | Iriel | That one's a bug, it'll get fixed |
| 00:17.33 | Iriel | he just forgot to validate the (new required) argument |
| 00:17.37 | AnduinLothar | if u have auto-sync on it only syncs one way anyway, mac-ipod |
| 00:17.52 | AnduinLothar | this music was Never On this computer |
| 00:17.58 | tyndral | i've only been barely following this, Anduin, but are you honestly proposing that there is no local copy of the music, but it's still playing, by some sort of phantom data-memory? |
| 00:18.05 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 00:18.11 | tyndral | ghosts. |
| 00:18.32 | AnduinLothar | this computer has no local copy of this music.. |
| 00:18.41 | tyndral | either it's on the computer or it's not. if the mac software chooses to hide that cache somewhere inaccessible, that's it's business. but it's still a local copy of the music. |
| 00:18.43 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 00:18.44 | zeeg | where's net |
| 00:18.57 | tyndral | [or you're hearing things..] |
| 00:18.59 | zeeg | Cair, so what do you think the chances are ill convince worldofwar to implement my wgp stuff? :D |
| 00:19.00 | AnduinLothar | right, cache of buffer is the only thing i can think of |
| 00:19.05 | Cair | dunno, he left the channels yesterday and hasn't been back |
| 00:19.09 | Cair | no idea zeeg |
| 00:19.13 | zeeg | i dont think they will |
| 00:19.21 | zeeg | im sure I can get curse to do it as they're community oriented (for the most part) |
| 00:19.25 | zeeg | worldofwar is out for blood tho :P |
| 00:19.35 | Cair | *shrug* |
| 00:19.44 | Cair | We just try to get along with everyone |
| 00:19.54 | Cair | and in general seem to be successful at it :p |
| 00:19.54 | Mondinga | you kids and your ui sites~ |
| 00:20.07 | Industrial | make mods not war |
| 00:20.11 | Industrial | addons, even |
| 00:20.16 | zeeg | who be Mondinga, sounds familiar :| |
| 00:20.17 | Mondinga | add-ons indeed |
| 00:20.34 | Cair | ! |
| 00:20.38 | Cair | rofl zeeg |
| 00:20.47 | zeeg | hrmm |
| 00:20.47 | cladhaire | <3 Mondinga |
| 00:20.59 | Cair | ever hear of a little mod called Gypsy? |
| 00:21.03 | zeeg | OH YA |
| 00:21.04 | zeeg | i remember you now |
| 00:21.09 | zeeg | you're the wowguru hater :( |
| 00:21.18 | Mondinga | hey im just lazy |
| 00:21.20 | zeeg | i forget why |
| 00:21.25 | zeeg | nono i remember something |
| 00:21.26 | Mondinga | and dont need to support 8 bajillion sites |
| 00:21.33 | zeeg | it was something that you didnt like about the site |
| 00:21.34 | zeeg | sec |
| 00:21.38 | zeeg | <3 gmail search |
| 00:21.42 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 00:21.47 | Legorol | Ahhhh, it looks like the tooltip thing *is* an IsVisible/IsShown thing after all |
| 00:21.56 | Legorol | I have fallen victim to it, by the looks of it |
| 00:21.58 | AnduinLothar | what thing leg? |
| 00:22.01 | zeeg | oh |
| 00:22.02 | zeeg | I was also slightly concerned that UUI, which contains GypsyMod, would |
| 00:22.02 | zeeg | be used for this data collection. I've no problem with mod packs |
| 00:22.02 | zeeg | including GypsyMod, but if it's being used or affiliated with some |
| 00:22.02 | zeeg | sort of money-making website, I can not approve. I will take this up |
| 00:22.02 | zeeg | with the packager of UUI as well. If this is all amazingly not for |
| 00:22.04 | zeeg | money, which seems to me unlikely, please set me straight. |
| 00:22.12 | Tain | Please don't spam the channel. |
| 00:22.14 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: ShardTracker wasn't counting shards on test, so i looked why |
| 00:22.20 | Cair | zeeg hunny, take your crusades elsewhere ... |
| 00:22.24 | Mondinga | hah |
| 00:22.26 | Mondinga | yes, i remember |
| 00:22.30 | zeeg | crusades? |
| 00:22.31 | Legorol | i found it's not getting the item names correctly when using hidden tooltip parsing |
| 00:22.34 | zeeg | i gave up on gypsy long ago :P |
| 00:22.38 | AnduinLothar | have u had the can't click on ief of earth button issue too leg? |
| 00:22.40 | Cair | don't go promoting your site, or bashing the others :p |
| 00:22.42 | Tain | So why bring it up now? |
| 00:22.52 | zeeg | Tain, why not? :P |
| 00:22.56 | Legorol | from my testing, it looked like that they changed behaviour of tooltips and now tooltip:SetOwner before a tooltip:Setxxx is mandatory |
| 00:22.57 | Cair | I don't promote WoWI in this channel, and we're the ones hosting it for pity's sake |
| 00:22.58 | Tain | Becaues you gave up on it. |
| 00:23.00 | Legorol | but looks like i was wrong |
| 00:23.12 | zeeg | Cair, well it is called "WoWI-Lounge" besides.. not promoting anything :) |
| 00:23.22 | Tain | Back on the ignore list. |
| 00:23.23 | AnduinLothar | so it just needs an isVis before checkign the line, eh? |
| 00:23.27 | zeeg | ooo |
| 00:23.31 | zeeg | i'm assuming tain is an ace dev? |
| 00:23.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge LiE-matt[m] (n=casidy@ip76.los-rios-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 00:23.33 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, no not even that |
| 00:23.40 | Legorol | it doesn't need *anything*, works like it did in 1.8 |
| 00:23.45 | tyndral | well, this is beginning to look like something i don't want anything to do with. |
| 00:23.56 | LiE-matt[m] | lawl |
| 00:23.58 | LiE-matt[m] | pallys got pwned. |
| 00:23.58 | Legorol | what was wrong for ShardTracker is that it is using IsVisible on tooltipTextLeft1 (i have no idea why) |
| 00:24.06 | Legorol | which, seems like now returns false instead of true |
| 00:24.16 | AnduinLothar | odd |
| 00:24.20 | Legorol | which is fair enough, since the tooltip is not actually rendered |
| 00:24.25 | cladhaire | closing my laptop for a bit so i can eat diner.. brb |
| 00:24.27 | Legorol | it's a hidden tooltip that's never shown |
| 00:24.32 | Cair | later cladhaire :) |
| 00:24.34 | Legorol | so it makes sense for IsVisible to return false |
| 00:24.34 | AnduinLothar | cyaz clad |
| 00:24.36 | Cair | enjoy |
| 00:24.46 | Legorol | i don't know why it returns true in 1.8, but seems it does |
| 00:24.55 | AnduinLothar | mmm, isVis worked before on hidden ones |
| 00:24.56 | Iriel | Does IsShown return true in 1.9 ? |
| 00:25.07 | Iriel | It _should_ |
| 00:25.13 | Legorol | Iriel, did somethig change about isvisible/isshown? |
| 00:25.18 | Legorol | i mean i remember you saying something did |
| 00:25.20 | Legorol | what was it? |
| 00:25.29 | Iriel | Slouken fixed a whole bunch of UI stuff related to frame rendering |
| 00:25.29 | Flonne[Azgalor] | who owns this chan |
| 00:25.33 | Iriel | AND he added IsShown on FontStrings |
| 00:25.35 | Flonne[Azgalor] | aside from Cair |
| 00:25.35 | Iriel | which wasn't tehre before |
| 00:25.37 | AnduinLothar | cair does |
| 00:25.49 | Guillotine | i like to say I do |
| 00:25.51 | AnduinLothar | the channel is on a public server |
| 00:25.53 | Guillotine | but i don't |
| 00:26.05 | Flonne[Azgalor] | why dont you guys use #wow on gaysurge |
| 00:26.10 | Flonne[Azgalor] | err gamesurge |
| 00:26.10 | Flonne[Azgalor] | lawl |
| 00:26.27 | Cair | because we are established here already, so why move? |
| 00:26.31 | AnduinLothar | cause we're anti-convention |
| 00:26.32 | Flonne[Azgalor] | here, do both, type /server -m irc.gamesurge.net -j #wow |
| 00:26.33 | Flonne[Azgalor] | uhh |
| 00:26.35 | Flonne[Azgalor] | k hold on |
| 00:26.44 | Flonne[Azgalor] | -ChanServ- Registered: 3 years and 4 weeks ago. |
| 00:26.47 | Flonne[Azgalor] | for #wow on gamesurge |
| 00:26.48 | Flonne[Azgalor] | lol. |
| 00:26.53 | Cair | hi |
| 00:26.56 | Cair | we |
| 00:26.58 | Cair | don't |
| 00:26.59 | Cair | care |
| 00:27.03 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 00:27.05 | Flonne[Azgalor] | lawl cair |
| 00:27.13 | Tain | What the hell is a lawl? |
| 00:27.14 | Cair | we're established here, everyone is used to being here at this point, why change? |
| 00:27.14 | Flonne[Azgalor] | just sayin, its been around for a long ass time |
| 00:27.17 | Flonne[Azgalor] | lawl = lol. |
| 00:27.22 | Cair | that's fine, and good for it |
| 00:27.23 | Flonne[Azgalor] | im not saying change |
| 00:27.30 | Flonne[Azgalor] | im just saying, its another irc for chat |
| 00:27.36 | Legorol | ahhh, i finally figured out what's going on |
| 00:27.42 | AnduinLothar | omg kids, stop squabling and askign stupid questions |
| 00:27.44 | Flonne[Azgalor] | and be in both, whats the harm, type /server -m irc.gamesurge.net -j #wow |
| 00:27.47 | Legorol | it looks like that since fontstrings now have IsShown, |
| 00:27.53 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 00:27.58 | Legorol | fontstring:IsShown and fontstring:IsVisible behaves like for frames |
| 00:27.59 | Tain | Gamesurge sounds like an energy drink for video gamers |
| 00:28.10 | Legorol | So in 1.8 fontstring:IsVisible() would return true |
| 00:28.14 | AnduinLothar | so isVis wont work if the parent isn't vis? |
| 00:28.25 | Legorol | Now in 1.9 fontstring:IsVisible() returns false and fontsring:IsVisible() returns true instead |
| 00:28.31 | Legorol | bah, second one should be IsShown |
| 00:28.42 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: for fontstrings, not anymore |
| 00:28.45 | Iriel | That's what I thought was happing, nice to see it's verified |
| 00:28.47 | Legorol | for frames, everything is same as before |
| 00:28.51 | AnduinLothar | so all the tooltip scanning mods have to update, eh? |
| 00:28.57 | Legorol | potentially |
| 00:29.01 | AnduinLothar | ew |
| 00:29.05 | Legorol | if you are using fontstring:IsVisible(), then it's borked |
| 00:29.08 | Iriel | All those which use IsVisible, anyway |
| 00:29.15 | Industrial | Tain: pm :D |
| 00:29.19 | AnduinLothar | which should be all of them.. |
| 00:29.29 | Legorol | i don't see why you needed it in the first place :-) |
| 00:29.38 | Legorol | why is there a check for the visibility of the fontstring in a hidden tooltip? |
| 00:29.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:29.41 | Iriel | Only those which scan from the RIGHT hand side |
| 00:29.52 | AnduinLothar | what? |
| 00:29.54 | Iriel | Legorol : It's becasue ClearTooltip doesn't clear the RightX font strings, it only hides them |
| 00:29.59 | Industrial | lo Parak |
| 00:30.03 | zeeg | is Gypsy hosted on WoWI at least? |
| 00:30.06 | Parak | hiyo |
| 00:30.07 | AnduinLothar | it doesn't clear the left either, does it? |
| 00:30.12 | Legorol | i don't know.. |
| 00:30.13 | Cair | yes zeeg |
| 00:30.14 | Iriel | I think it does clear the left |
| 00:30.16 | zeeg | k good |
| 00:30.20 | Iriel | based on the wiki entry, anyway |
| 00:30.24 | Cair | one of our first FAs |
| 00:30.26 | zeeg | CTMod is there also, and updated regularly, ya? |
| 00:30.27 | Legorol | when you say "clear", does it set the text to "", or to nil? |
| 00:30.34 | zeeg | its on guru but not always up-to-date |
| 00:30.37 | Legorol | and does it hide the TextLeftX elements |
| 00:30.40 | AnduinLothar | even so i never cleared, just SetUnit... and it auto hides but doesn't change the old ones |
| 00:30.40 | Iriel | I would hope "", but to be honest I never really checked 8-) |
| 00:30.56 | Legorol | ok, i'm going to check |
| 00:31.00 | Legorol | both 1.8 and 1.9 |
| 00:31.20 | Iriel | Update the wiki with your findings if you get a chance (The Widget API ClearTootlip entry) |
| 00:31.27 | Cair | yes zeeg, the other of our original FAs, and we're the ones that host their site as well |
| 00:31.34 | AnduinLothar | check if the setX clears or just hides too while ur at it |
| 00:31.42 | Iriel | Very few of my addons care about tooltips so most of my knowledge of them is secondhand. |
| 00:32.15 | zeeg | ya i knew you hsoted em, just couldnt remember if they were updated on WoWI :) |
| 00:32.21 | Cair | they are |
| 00:32.33 | zeeg | hopefully curse will do an XML feed |
| 00:32.38 | zeeg | will help a lot |
| 00:32.45 | zeeg | as i know there's a lot of addons on curse that aren't hosted elsewhere |
| 00:33.17 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, going to do it thoroughly ;-) |
| 00:33.22 | AnduinLothar | thx leg |
| 00:33.24 | Legorol | i am going to check Lefts first |
| 00:33.47 | AnduinLothar | i hate running those tests, glad to know you can get them done |
| 00:42.24 | Iriel | Oh yes, +1 point for 1.9 adding Texture:GetTexture() too |
| 00:42.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Krirken (n=nintendo@ool-44c7662c.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:42.35 | Krirken | Hello |
| 00:43.10 | Flonne[Azgalor] | suppers? |
| 00:43.35 | Legorol | Result of tests at http://wow.pastebin.com/438285 |
| 00:44.01 | Legorol | Conclusion: both in 1.8 and 1.9, Setxxx clears the TextLeftX element by setting its text to nil *and* by hiding it |
| 00:44.17 | Krirken | Intentionally? |
| 00:44.26 | Cair | hey Krirken :) |
| 00:44.35 | Iriel | Does Cleartooltip also do the same? |
| 00:44.39 | Krirken | Can you hook the GameTooltipTextLeft1:ClearText() function? |
| 00:44.40 | Legorol | cleartooltip? |
| 00:44.42 | Legorol | what's that? |
| 00:44.55 | Legorol | i don't think there is such a method, is there? |
| 00:45.07 | Krirken | Its something like that, I'm not sure on the exact wording |
| 00:45.15 | Legorol | Iriel, there is a OnClearTooltip event |
| 00:45.26 | Legorol | which gets triggered most of the time when you use Setxxxx on a tooltip |
| 00:46.02 | Iriel | Sorry, it's :ClearLines() |
| 00:46.10 | Legorol | ah |
| 00:46.10 | Iriel | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GameTooltip_ClearLines |
| 00:46.13 | Legorol | ok, can check |
| 00:46.32 | Iriel | My guess is that's the internal method the Setxxx's use when they run |
| 00:46.50 | Iriel | Though I BELIEVE (I could be wrong) that if you call Setxxx for a bad xxx, then the tooltip is NOT cleared |
| 00:46.56 | Legorol | Iriel, same |
| 00:47.06 | Legorol | that is possible |
| 00:47.10 | Krirken | Ah... |
| 00:47.13 | Legorol | ClearLines clears TextLeftX the same way |
| 00:47.30 | Legorol | i am just guessing here, but it could be that internally Setxxxx calls just call ClearLines first |
| 00:47.37 | Legorol | i can doublecheck on the bad Setxxx calls |
| 00:47.37 | Iriel | that's my guess |
| 00:47.41 | Krirken | It clears the whole thing and re-draws? |
| 00:47.51 | Iriel | internally it's something like if (args are good) then clearLines, populateTooltip end |
| 00:47.52 | Legorol | yes, clears and refills TextLeftXs |
| 00:47.57 | Legorol | yep |
| 00:48.03 | Legorol | i am yet to check the TextRightXs |
| 00:48.10 | Iriel | It's the only sane way to do it really |
| 00:48.27 | Krirken | Which 1.9 bug are you adressing with this? |
| 00:48.51 | Legorol | none |
| 00:48.51 | Iriel | 1.9 'fixes' :IsVisible on FontStrings |
| 00:48.52 | Legorol | it's not a bug |
| 00:49.06 | Iriel | So people have to change their code to use :IsShown(), Legorol is testing to see when (if) that is necessary |
| 00:49.10 | Legorol | I am just establishing clearing behaviour, because i have never thoroughly tested it before |
| 00:49.35 | Legorol | Ok, for invalid calls, looks like it doesn't clear |
| 00:49.39 | Krirken | I see. |
| 00:49.43 | Legorol | I have tested it with tooltip:SetBagItem(5,1) |
| 00:49.49 | Iriel | Cool, my memory is working today 8-) |
| 00:49.50 | Legorol | left TextLeft2 intact |
| 00:50.02 | Iriel | Which is why paranoid people like me call ClearLines first 8-) |
| 00:50.06 | Legorol | i'm not going to iterate all Setxxx methods :p |
| 00:50.15 | Legorol | but they are prolly the same |
| 00:50.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge jts (i=ryse@jpi-stillwatr-232-39.dmisinetworks.net) |
| 00:50.20 | jts | anyone know the itemid for windblossom berries? |
| 00:50.28 | Legorol | ok, now i will test TextRightX |
| 00:50.29 | jts | or how i can obtain it |
| 00:50.30 | jts | etc |
| 00:51.07 | Krirken | One sec |
| 00:51.11 | Gello | do you have any berries? |
| 00:51.45 | Gello | if so put it in slot 0,1 and do /script local _,_,id = string.find(GetContainerItemLink(0,1),"item:(%d+)") message(id) |
| 00:53.02 | Gello | 11950 |
| 00:53.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_ (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 00:53.25 | Krirken | Is there a CT Raid optimized for 1.9 anywhere? |
| 00:53.42 | AnduinLothar | not yet |
| 00:53.47 | jts | yeah i have berries |
| 00:54.40 | Cide | yes there is.. just not public |
| 00:54.48 | Krirken | Ah |
| 00:55.05 | Krirken | Trying to raid AQ while getting lag spikes at each group change isn't fun :( |
| 00:55.31 | Cide | that's not ctra |
| 00:56.08 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 00:56.13 | AnduinLothar | denial |
| 00:56.17 | AnduinLothar | j/k |
| 00:56.20 | Krirken | Hm, maybe Perl frames then |
| 00:56.32 | Cide | it's not a mod as far as we can tell |
| 00:56.47 | Krirken | Ah, same for the target clearing thing? |
| 00:56.51 | jts | ty Gello |
| 00:56.52 | Cide | that's the same thing |
| 00:56.57 | Cide | it lags and then target is cleared |
| 00:57.06 | Cide | but it doesn't call ClearTarget() |
| 00:57.20 | Krirken | Yea i noticed that |
| 00:57.37 | Krirken | I wiped out ClearTarget but still get the bug |
| 00:57.45 | Krirken | I even wiped out TargetFrame_OnHide() |
| 00:57.53 | AnduinLothar | ok, so I'm trying to think of a good way to pass return args to a function |
| 00:57.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=void@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 00:58.10 | Cair | hey MentalPower :) |
| 00:58.18 | MentalPower | hey |
| 00:58.24 | AnduinLothar | without breaking reverse compatibility |
| 00:58.51 | AnduinLothar | is there a way to make local variabled availible to a function defined elsewhere? |
| 00:59.06 | Krirken | Make the variable global? |
| 00:59.11 | AnduinLothar | no good |
| 00:59.12 | Krirken | Well |
| 00:59.25 | Cide | pass it to the function :P |
| 00:59.37 | AnduinLothar | ya, that's not reverse compatible |
| 00:59.45 | Legorol | Iriel, done the tests on TextRightX |
| 00:59.46 | Krirken | local x = "Hello"; globalVar = x; function(globalVar); globalVar = nil |
| 00:59.46 | AnduinLothar | unless i add it as a 21st arg |
| 00:59.52 | Legorol | http://wow.pastebin.com/438299 |
| 01:00.09 | Legorol | Conclusion: for TextRightX, clearing happens by only hiding the fontstring, text is unchanged |
| 01:00.20 | Legorol | conclusions for ClearLines() and invalid calls same as for TextLeftX |
| 01:00.22 | Iriel | Cool, so that's consistent with 1.8 |
| 01:00.32 | Iriel | Thanks for doing the dreary test work on this one! |
| 01:00.37 | Legorol | hehe np |
| 01:00.46 | AnduinLothar | what about isVis and IsShown, any change? |
| 01:00.50 | Legorol | well at least now i have covered all aspects of tooltip line setting in 1.8 and 1.9 :D |
| 01:00.54 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, yes |
| 01:01.07 | AnduinLothar | so, same as previosuly mentioned |
| 01:01.12 | Legorol | In 1.8, fontstring:IsVisible() == true if the fontstring had :Show() |
| 01:01.24 | Legorol | In 1.9, fontstring:IsShown() is true instead |
| 01:01.37 | AnduinLothar | k, means i'll have to edit 3 or 4 addons then |
| 01:01.38 | Legorol | and fontstring:IsVisible() depends on whether the fontstring is actually visible or not, e.g. depends on parents |
| 01:01.47 | Legorol | In other words, fontstrings now behave like frames |
| 01:01.52 | Legorol | whereas before they didn't |
| 01:01.54 | AnduinLothar | we also have to update Sea for that leg, u wanna do that? |
| 01:02.03 | Legorol | nah, i want to go to WSG now :D |
| 01:02.10 | Legorol | had enough of tooltips |
| 01:02.17 | Legorol | i can do it later |
| 01:02.22 | AnduinLothar | wsg? |
| 01:02.25 | Legorol | Warsong Gulch |
| 01:02.30 | Legorol | i want to blast some Horde to pieces |
| 01:02.42 | Legorol | i have just gotten a lvl 60 in full epic to play with, can't miss this ;-) |
| 01:02.47 | AnduinLothar | ah, ok. i'm still trying to figure out how to pas smore args to a function without actually passing them |
| 01:02.53 | Krirken | If they behave like frames, do they have functions like Frame is their parent? |
| 01:02.57 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: uh? |
| 01:03.15 | AnduinLothar | like locals for the calling function that aren't global |
| 01:03.17 | Legorol | Krirken, only in the sense of IsVisible and IsShown |
| 01:03.34 | AnduinLothar | dont think it's gonna work tho |
| 01:03.38 | Legorol | hm, interesting |
| 01:03.42 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You can't. |
| 01:03.55 | Legorol | well, what about getfenv? |
| 01:03.57 | AnduinLothar | right, i figured. but that doesn't usualy stop me from trying |
| 01:04.07 | Legorol | oh nvm, getfenv is different thing |
| 01:04.15 | Legorol | hm actually |
| 01:04.17 | Krirken | Interesting... |
| 01:04.23 | Legorol | Yeah, what about this: |
| 01:04.27 | Iriel | I dont think for THIS example it'd work |
| 01:04.32 | Iriel | But in general you COULD do that |
| 01:04.36 | Legorol | use setfenv in calling function to establish your own global space for that function only |
| 01:04.43 | Legorol | then use getfenv in the called function to get access |
| 01:04.54 | Legorol | then restore the global environment in calling function once the call returns |
| 01:05.09 | AnduinLothar | not easy, but doable |
| 01:05.16 | Legorol | that should work, but lot of headache |
| 01:05.18 | Iriel | That wouldn't be re-entrant in this case |
| 01:05.20 | Legorol | and plenty of bug possibilities :-) |
| 01:05.33 | Legorol | Iriel, don't see why not.. |
| 01:05.42 | Legorol | i thought that setfenv/getfenv work on closure basis |
| 01:05.43 | AnduinLothar | i stil dont know what that means |
| 01:05.43 | Iriel | He's using it for hooking |
| 01:06.09 | Iriel | It means, you call a function from within itself (or a child of itself) |
| 01:06.15 | Legorol | right |
| 01:06.16 | AnduinLothar | right, the adodn lcoal didn't work cause the hooker function is defined in a diff addon |
| 01:06.18 | Legorol | i beleive it would still work |
| 01:06.27 | Krirken | How could blizzard screw this up, did they forget to tell each other they are making this change or something? |
| 01:06.35 | Legorol | kremonte, which one? |
| 01:06.40 | Legorol | i mean Krirken |
| 01:06.41 | Iriel | Krirken : Screw WHAT up? |
| 01:06.55 | Legorol | Iriel, btw, you read slouken's post about the MouseIsOver comment I made? |
| 01:07.23 | Krirken | Screw up the fame hiding |
| 01:07.26 | Krirken | frame* |
| 01:07.27 | AnduinLothar | so, how would i dynamicly make/get a new fenv? |
| 01:07.31 | Iriel | They didn't screw anything up |
| 01:07.36 | Legorol | Krirken, screwed up what hiding? |
| 01:07.41 | Iriel | Some bugs got fixed, none of the standard UI is affected |
| 01:07.44 | Krirken | Frame hiding on group changes |
| 01:07.56 | Krirken | Then it is an addon causing target loss? |
| 01:08.01 | Iriel | Legorol : I did't -- Somehow I must have missed it! |
| 01:08.14 | Legorol | it's towards the last page of 1.9 change thread |
| 01:08.15 | Legorol | just to give you heads up |
| 01:08.40 | Iriel | Oh.. THAT one.. yes |
| 01:08.43 | Iriel | I did see that one |
| 01:08.57 | Iriel | I figured we had some pain until getEffectiveScale shows up |
| 01:09.07 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, i am throwing together an example that uses setfenv/getfenv for what i beleive you want to do |
| 01:09.22 | AnduinLothar | thx leg |
| 01:11.15 | AnduinLothar | another option is to set an addon local set of variables and somehoe beable to call a get function from within the hook to get the return args for that specific call. but i would still have to be able to know what itteration of the call it was |
| 01:12.14 | Iriel | But you still acn't do it |
| 01:12.20 | Iriel | Unless you're willing to allocate from a table |
| 01:12.34 | Iriel | This is a fundamental 'information loss' problem |
| 01:12.41 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, i beleive something like this should work: http://wow.pastebin.com/438306 |
| 01:12.48 | Iriel | You want to have something that acts like a 'per call' variable, but you dont want to pass it |
| 01:12.52 | Legorol | i haven't tested this and thrown it together off the top of my head, try it |
| 01:13.05 | AnduinLothar | ok, well if i set a global right before the function was called the function could grab it linearly |
| 01:13.25 | Legorol | yes, but then it's not recursive |
| 01:13.31 | Legorol | the example i posted should be recursive |
| 01:13.31 | Iriel | re-entrant |
| 01:13.34 | Legorol | re-entrant then |
| 01:13.54 | AnduinLothar | ok, so ud have to grab it before calling any other functions in the hook function |
| 01:14.10 | Legorol | in the called function? no |
| 01:14.20 | Legorol | you are not altering the global environment for the called function |
| 01:14.24 | Legorol | only in the calling one |
| 01:14.33 | Legorol | so you can grab the environment using getfenv(2) whenever you like |
| 01:14.47 | Legorol | or at least that's how i understand environments |
| 01:15.03 | Iriel | I can't see how you can guarantee that that particular piece of code is not invoked in the meantime |
| 01:15.16 | Legorol | Iriel, even if it is, it works |
| 01:15.31 | Legorol | i am assuming non-multithreaded |
| 01:15.52 | Legorol | but single-threaded, with arbitrary number of calls to the functions in question |
| 01:15.54 | Iriel | But this is for hooking, you dotn have control oevr what you call |
| 01:16.08 | AnduinLothar | mmm, que? |
| 01:16.10 | Krirken | Well, I'm off to do AQ! |
| 01:16.11 | Iriel | I could hook X, and the hook code could call X a dozen more times with different parameters and return values during its work |
| 01:16.18 | Iriel | and then return |
| 01:16.47 | Legorol | ok i really would need to know *what* you are trying to do here with this hooking |
| 01:16.59 | Legorol | i have just given a simple example for passing local data without passing it as args |
| 01:17.07 | Legorol | i don't know what you are trying to do |
| 01:17.09 | Iriel | I have to admit i'm guessing a bit here, but I believe it's for Sea:Hooks |
| 01:17.13 | Iriel | or some version thereof |
| 01:17.15 | Legorol | right |
| 01:17.27 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, what is it you are trying to do? |
| 01:17.47 | Legorol | however, as far as i understand Lua functions and their environments, |
| 01:17.57 | Legorol | if you call a function 10 times, you have 10 different environments |
| 01:17.59 | AnduinLothar | yes. i need a simple way for the 'after' hook to have availible the current return args, without passing them |
| 01:18.00 | Legorol | which can be set independenty |
| 01:18.25 | Legorol | i see |
| 01:18.49 | AnduinLothar | problem happens if the after hook calls another hooked function |
| 01:18.55 | Legorol | well the code i linked will work for this, the only problem is that it will generate garbage |
| 01:19.06 | Legorol | because you have to stuff the return args into a table to be able to use it in setfenv |
| 01:19.15 | AnduinLothar | why? |
| 01:19.29 | Legorol | you have 20 local variables |
| 01:19.35 | Legorol | setfenv takes a table as argument |
| 01:19.40 | AnduinLothar | mmk |
| 01:19.55 | Legorol | and sets that table to be the global environment for that particular function at that point of execution |
| 01:19.58 | AnduinLothar | anyway to preserve a channel? |
| 01:20.03 | Legorol | instead of what the actual global environment is |
| 01:20.06 | AnduinLothar | er table* |
| 01:20.12 | Legorol | hmm |
| 01:20.18 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:20.22 | Tain | Damn. I was thwarted by a newline char. |
| 01:20.27 | Legorol | you should have a Sea.util.returnargs table |
| 01:20.33 | Legorol | fill it up with 20 elements to start with |
| 01:20.39 | Legorol | and just shove the return args in there |
| 01:20.47 | AnduinLothar | right, thats what i have atm |
| 01:20.54 | Legorol | this way you don't even need this whole environment business :-) |
| 01:21.12 | Legorol | either way you can't get away from putting the returns in a table, or at least i don't see how |
| 01:21.20 | AnduinLothar | right, only problem is u have to grab the args before callign any potentially hooked functions |
| 01:21.58 | AnduinLothar | or there's a posibility that it might be replaced by an after hook on the called function |
| 01:22.21 | Legorol | you lost me |
| 01:22.39 | AnduinLothar | if called() calls another function |
| 01:22.48 | AnduinLothar | and that function is hooked with an after hook |
| 01:22.59 | AnduinLothar | then it will change the global return args |
| 01:23.19 | Legorol | ehm.. no |
| 01:23.23 | Legorol | ehm... |
| 01:23.24 | Legorol | oh i see |
| 01:23.31 | Legorol | right, i get you at last |
| 01:23.46 | Legorol | so that's why Sea.util.returnargs wouldn't work |
| 01:24.26 | Legorol | well in that case, let's look at it in an abstract way |
| 01:24.29 | AnduinLothar | well it would work. i just have to specify the user to extract the args immediately |
| 01:24.37 | Legorol | since you are considering nested after hooks, |
| 01:24.47 | Legorol | what this means you potentially have multiple sets of return args |
| 01:24.55 | Legorol | which means multiple tables |
| 01:24.55 | Iriel | You can avoid the general GC issue by managing a pool of return arg tables |
| 01:25.02 | Legorol | so no matter what you do, you can't avoid creating tables |
| 01:25.14 | Iriel | You can just avoid giving them back to the GC engine |
| 01:25.16 | Legorol | Iriel, then you have an upper limit on the depth of calls |
| 01:25.20 | Iriel | No |
| 01:25.24 | Iriel | Allocate if you dont have enough |
| 01:25.28 | Iriel | return unused ones to the 'free pool' |
| 01:25.29 | Legorol | ugh |
| 01:25.34 | Legorol | now you are talking about writing your own memory manager |
| 01:25.34 | Iriel | memory usage increased, but no churn |
| 01:25.35 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 01:25.36 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 01:25.42 | Iriel | more or less, yes |
| 01:25.51 | Legorol | that's been discussed endlessly, i think |
| 01:26.00 | Legorol | and the conclusion everytime is that WoW's GC sucks :D |
| 01:26.03 | Iriel | But you guys seem set on constructing enormous structures of overengineering to avoid a design change to fix a design defect 8-) |
| 01:26.16 | Legorol | several people have seriously considered writing memory managers to get around the crappy GC we have |
| 01:26.29 | Legorol | which on the other hand ddefeats the purpose of a GC entirely |
| 01:26.29 | Iriel | I still feel there's nothing wrong with WoW's GC |
| 01:26.47 | Legorol | i agree with you on that one |
| 01:26.56 | Legorol | the problem is, that it does have an effect |
| 01:27.03 | Legorol | it does have a noticable effect i'd say |
| 01:27.05 | Iriel | If you need to make a structural change to Sea hooks to handle return values better |
| 01:27.13 | Iriel | you have to deal with incompatibility with older code |
| 01:27.20 | Legorol | i am not against that |
| 01:27.29 | Legorol | the problem is that AnduinLothar is right |
| 01:27.35 | Legorol | multiple nested calls are possible |
| 01:27.36 | AnduinLothar | i hate being right ;) |
| 01:27.43 | Legorol | and you need to save the return args for each call |
| 01:27.46 | Legorol | which means multiple tables |
| 01:27.51 | Legorol | i don't see a way around it.. :( |
| 01:28.06 | Iriel | well, if you'er willing to make the existing assumptions |
| 01:28.07 | AnduinLothar | i'll just do it with global args |
| 01:28.14 | Iriel | i.e. that you never get more than X values |
| 01:28.20 | Iriel | then you can just pass them, as AnduinLothar suggested |
| 01:28.29 | Iriel | but then you're not backward compatible |
| 01:28.53 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 01:28.58 | Legorol | hm, hold on |
| 01:29.07 | Legorol | what exactly is wrong with just passing them to the after hooks? |
| 01:29.16 | Legorol | why does that break backwards compatibility? |
| 01:29.20 | Legorol | i am lost on that one |
| 01:29.25 | AnduinLothar | would have to pass as a 22nd arg |
| 01:29.35 | Iriel | It was AnduinLothar's claim - I figured he had a reason 8-) |
| 01:29.49 | Legorol | you mean pass it as arguments 21 to 40? |
| 01:29.55 | AnduinLothar | i could do it, it'd jsut be rediculous to use |
| 01:29.59 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 01:30.16 | Legorol | well it would only affect after hooks that specifically need that data |
| 01:30.21 | Legorol | and those can cater for it |
| 01:30.26 | Iriel | I still think the pooled table idea has some merit |
| 01:30.29 | AnduinLothar | right, but who wants to define 24 vars jsut to use 3 |
| 01:30.31 | Legorol | it's an ugly looking function definition, but it wouldn't be used often |
| 01:30.53 | Iriel | What's the runtime impact of constantly passing a zillion parameters you dont need? |
| 01:30.58 | Legorol | we already define functions which have 20 args and return 20 args |
| 01:31.00 | AnduinLothar | who knows.. |
| 01:31.05 | Legorol | that's ugly enough as it is ;-) |
| 01:31.07 | AnduinLothar | no way to test |
| 01:31.16 | Iriel | Sure there is |
| 01:31.23 | Iriel | just experiment in lua outside of wow |
| 01:31.26 | Legorol | Iriel, i beleive very little compared to constantly creating tables |
| 01:31.50 | Legorol | it's a slight overhead in terms of filling in the stack with references |
| 01:31.54 | kremonte | question: #1 how do i just make a floating picture (XML-wise)? and #2 how do i change that picture in lua? |
| 01:31.54 | Legorol | and then removing them when returning |
| 01:32.07 | Legorol | kremonte: create a frame that has a texture |
| 01:32.15 | Legorol | specify the file path for the texture as being the picture |
| 01:32.17 | kremonte | is it just <Texture>? |
| 01:32.21 | Iriel | And Texture:SetTexture("path\\to\\texture") |
| 01:32.34 | Iriel | It's <Frame><Layers><Layer><Texture> |
| 01:32.36 | Iriel | I think |
| 01:32.41 | Iriel | That's what I always do anyway |
| 01:32.45 | Legorol | with all the necessary attributes e.g. size, anchor etc. |
| 01:32.55 | kremonte | then what would i put as Texture in texture:settexture()? |
| 01:32.55 | AnduinLothar | looks right |
| 01:33.05 | kremonte | the name of the frame? |
| 01:33.06 | AnduinLothar | the path |
| 01:33.11 | kremonte | not that |
| 01:33.12 | AnduinLothar | of the tex file |
| 01:33.12 | Legorol | the path to the file that has your picture |
| 01:33.14 | Iriel | Look at ArcadiaLogos if you want some examples |
| 01:33.20 | Iriel | Its texture code is pretty simple |
| 01:33.20 | kremonte | xxxx:SetTexture() |
| 01:33.30 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:33.31 | kremonte | ArcadiaLogos? thanks, i'll check that out :) |
| 01:33.32 | Iriel | the XML anyway |
| 01:33.40 | kremonte | i mean, what do i put as the xxx |
| 01:33.49 | Iriel | the xxx is the name of your Texture object |
| 01:33.55 | Iriel | from the XML |
| 01:34.05 | AnduinLothar | leg, would ur setfenv way have the same issues as the globals with embedded hooks? |
| 01:34.09 | kremonte | <Texture name="boobaa">? |
| 01:34.14 | kremonte | booba:SetTexture() |
| 01:34.17 | Iriel | yes |
| 01:34.22 | kremonte | thanks |
| 01:34.23 | Iriel | though you would of course pick a better name 8-) |
| 01:40.52 | Legorol | what are embedded hooks? |
| 01:41.41 | Legorol | if you mean multiple nested calls, then no, they wouldn't have that issue |
| 01:41.53 | Legorol | the issue with my way is that you need to create a table to be able to use setfenv |
| 01:41.58 | Legorol | which means you create garbage |
| 01:42.44 | AnduinLothar | - Added Feature: current return values from a hooked function are availible to 'after' hooks via global return variables: Sea.util.returnArgs[1-20] |
| 01:42.44 | AnduinLothar | Note: these arguments are only availible for the durration of the 'after' hook call. Also, if you call any function within the 'after' hook that would lead to the call of another 'after' hook call then the global Sea.util.returnArgs would most likely change. Thus it is highly recommend you grab whatever return arguments you need at the beginning of the function call and assign them to local variables. This method pre |
| 01:42.44 | AnduinLothar | serves reverse compatibility as well as avoids table creation and thus does not effect GC. |
| 01:43.13 | Legorol | sounds good to me |
| 01:44.09 | Legorol | you know, i wish this whole GC issue never came up |
| 01:44.11 | AnduinLothar | maybe make a wrapper Sea.util.getReturnArgs() that does an unpack for you to save space |
| 01:44.16 | Legorol | we could write nice, compact and simple code :( |
| 01:44.28 | Iriel | So pool tables |
| 01:44.31 | Legorol | i may start an anti-GC campaign :D |
| 01:44.31 | Iriel | it's notthat tricky |
| 01:44.43 | Legorol | i really do like WoW's GC, it's just that it's noticable :( |
| 01:44.45 | Iriel | some simple monitoring of allocated count and high water mark, a bit of timing code |
| 01:44.47 | AnduinLothar | it' salso not neccissary |
| 01:44.56 | Iriel | and of course, remembering to nil out some entries, and you'd be done |
| 01:44.59 | Iriel | What's not necessary? GC? |
| 01:45.17 | AnduinLothar | no no, pooling for my purpose. if u wanted to make a global solution then yes |
| 01:45.29 | Legorol | Iriel, it's not so simple as you think |
| 01:45.36 | Legorol | if you hav ea pool of tables, that you always keep increasing, |
| 01:45.40 | Legorol | then you have a memory leak |
| 01:45.41 | Iriel | I'm worried about the overhead involved in constantly re-setting global entries. |
| 01:45.52 | Legorol | in the sense that you constantly consume memory that you never release via the GC |
| 01:46.01 | Legorol | eventually you fill up the Lua memory |
| 01:46.01 | Iriel | Well, the implication of monitoring the HWM is thatyou release if people aren't using them |
| 01:46.16 | Iriel | i.e. if you have 100 allocated, but it's been a while since more than 10 were used, you release the other 90 |
| 01:46.22 | Iriel | yes, you're doing GC of your own, of a sort |
| 01:46.29 | Legorol | ok, there is another issue |
| 01:46.35 | Iriel | but it's very controlled and uunderstandable and it's within reason |
| 01:46.40 | Legorol | by allocating more memory this way, you bring the total used to WoW's hard limit |
| 01:46.50 | Legorol | which, in turn, forces the actual GC to run more frequently |
| 01:46.53 | Iriel | Now, you DO need to nil out the entries INSIDE those tables when they're released to the pool |
| 01:46.57 | Iriel | Eh |
| 01:47.00 | Iriel | No, other way around |
| 01:47.09 | Iriel | For most peop,e, anyway |
| 01:47.10 | Legorol | ok, let's say the hard limit set in the addons screen is 48 Mb |
| 01:47.19 | Iriel | MOST people should be below half their hard limit |
| 01:47.35 | AnduinLothar | i'm at 48 atm idling |
| 01:47.36 | Legorol | if you keep allocating, you may bring memory use up to say 45 instead of 30 |
| 01:47.47 | Legorol | in that case, GC will run more often |
| 01:47.48 | Iriel | What's yoru hard limit set to AnduinLothar |
| 01:47.59 | AnduinLothar | was 256, i downed it to 64 |
| 01:48.09 | Legorol | mine is 96 I think |
| 01:48.09 | AnduinLothar | should just set to 0 and let os x handle it |
| 01:48.12 | Legorol | for Auctioneer :D |
| 01:48.27 | Iriel | If you set your UI memory limit below twice your 'resting state' thenyou'er ASKING for frequent GC |
| 01:48.36 | Iriel | Now, having said that |
| 01:48.41 | Iriel | This depends on how much GC churn you have |
| 01:48.46 | AnduinLothar | i have low fps |
| 01:48.47 | Legorol | indeed |
| 01:48.56 | Legorol | and setting a high limit in turn may consume your physical memory |
| 01:48.59 | AnduinLothar | and dont churn much usually |
| 01:49.01 | Iriel | Given the size of tables, I will claim that pooled tables are less of a system hit than most other techniques |
| 01:49.02 | Legorol | and cause lots of disk activity, causing lag |
| 01:49.23 | Legorol | i think it would have to be tuned to individual situation, via some clever algorithm |
| 01:49.33 | Legorol | e.g. the HWM should depend on current memory usage pattern |
| 01:49.39 | Iriel | I really dont think it has to be THAT clever |
| 01:49.49 | Legorol | now we are talking about writing an intelligent incremental GC :D |
| 01:49.51 | Iriel | other than, of course, responding to the low memory event and purging the list |
| 01:49.59 | kremonte | OnUpdate = every frame? |
| 01:50.03 | Legorol | yes |
| 01:50.14 | Iriel | we're talking about writing a small frequently-used-object manager within the context of a garbage collected environment |
| 01:50.20 | Legorol | if you do lot of Lua processing OnUpdate, you have a noticable impact on your FPS |
| 01:50.38 | Legorol | Iriel, why would one need to nil the entries of released tables? |
| 01:50.41 | kremonte | 1 if statement and a SetTexture() |
| 01:50.41 | Legorol | the GC would do that for you.. |
| 01:50.51 | Legorol | kremonte, sounds like a bad idea |
| 01:50.54 | Iriel | Released into the free pool |
| 01:50.56 | Legorol | why do you need to do SetTexture every frame? |
| 01:50.59 | kremonte | not always on |
| 01:51.04 | Legorol | is the picture changing every frame? |
| 01:51.05 | kremonte | it has an on/off switch ;p |
| 01:51.07 | kremonte | yes |
| 01:51.10 | Legorol | ah right |
| 01:51.11 | kremonte | its looping |
| 01:51.12 | Legorol | in that case.. |
| 01:51.13 | Iriel | Not released to GC |
| 01:51.26 | Legorol | right, i get you |
| 01:51.31 | Legorol | both of you ;_) |
| 01:52.07 | Legorol | in that case the question is: how much garbage you generate by releasing the tables contents? |
| 01:52.22 | Legorol | i mean that if you do use this system, people will start creating tables |
| 01:52.34 | Iriel | no more than you generate from the standard return values |
| 01:52.35 | Legorol | and table allocation is only part of the garbage generation, the table entries are the other part |
| 01:52.40 | Legorol | that's not true |
| 01:52.48 | Legorol | if you put something in a table entry, you allocate memory |
| 01:52.50 | Iriel | it SO is true. |
| 01:52.54 | Iriel | yes |
| 01:52.55 | AnduinLothar | --You can also use Sea.util.getReturnArgs() to unpack them for you. Ex: local arg1, arg2 = Sea.util.getReturnArgs(); |
| 01:52.59 | Legorol | local variables go on stack and are released as soon as you return from the function |
| 01:53.14 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, that's a neat idea! |
| 01:53.31 | Iriel | You're misunderstanding how table/local memory allocation works |
| 01:53.38 | Legorol | Iriel, example: function bla() local v1, v2, v3 = someFunc(); end |
| 01:53.45 | Legorol | i don't think i do |
| 01:53.47 | Legorol | compare that with |
| 01:53.48 | Iriel | Anything that can fit in a local register (no stack in LUA) can fit in a table entry WITHIN the table |
| 01:53.58 | Iriel | so nilling it from the table has no effect on memory usage |
| 01:54.21 | Iriel | Anything else (tables, functions) has standard GC behaviour, the local variable was just a reference, as is the table entry |
| 01:54.30 | Legorol | i know that locals are just references |
| 01:54.32 | Iriel | nilling it from the table allows the object to be collected if it's unreferenced |
| 01:54.35 | Legorol | i don't understand what you mean by no stack in Lua |
| 01:54.43 | Legorol | if i have defined 100 local vars, there aren't that many registers |
| 01:54.47 | Legorol | there must be some stack mechanism |
| 01:55.01 | kergoth | "register" doesnt imply _physical_ register |
| 01:55.02 | Iriel | I agree it's just not "the stack", they have some other term for it |
| 01:55.06 | Iriel | It's a LUA thing |
| 01:55.07 | Legorol | i understand the difference between local variables that contain references as opposed to the object that they refer to |
| 01:55.15 | kergoth | it implies a numerically indexed table. numeric. once compiled, the names are meaningless |
| 01:55.17 | Legorol | Iriel, ok |
| 01:55.20 | kergoth | hence a fast lookup |
| 01:55.24 | Legorol | right |
| 01:55.25 | kergoth | no GETGLOBAL operation in the VM |
| 01:55.28 | Legorol | so it is essentially a stack |
| 01:55.38 | Iriel | But do you understand that (ASSUMING your table is pre-allocated) there is no difference between a table entry and a local variable |
| 01:55.44 | Iriel | from a memory perspectiev |
| 01:56.02 | Legorol | Iriel, that's the bit i am not sure about |
| 01:56.07 | Legorol | let's say i want to store the number 1 |
| 01:56.08 | Iriel | (That is, if you nil it afterwards) |
| 01:56.18 | Legorol | if i put it in a local, it goes into one of these "registers" or whatever |
| 01:56.24 | kergoth | numbers are not affected by gc regardless |
| 01:56.25 | kergoth | nor are bools |
| 01:56.26 | Iriel | yes |
| 01:56.34 | Legorol | kergoth: i know, that's why i am using that as an example |
| 01:56.36 | Iriel | now you store it into your pre-allocated table |
| 01:56.39 | Legorol | now let's take a pre-allocated table |
| 01:56.45 | Legorol | you put it in there as an entry |
| 01:56.51 | Iriel | the cell is there, so the table just puts a 1 in there, it doesn't grow |
| 01:57.00 | Legorol | well how big is a table to start with? |
| 01:57.06 | Legorol | and does it grow if you add more entries? |
| 01:57.13 | Legorol | and does it shrink if you nil entries |
| 01:57.15 | kergoth | table size is dynamic. i dont recall the algorithm |
| 01:57.17 | Iriel | well, 'pre-allocated' means 'big enough to hold the value we're discussing' |
| 01:57.19 | Iriel | yes / no |
| 01:57.29 | Iriel | Tables grow to hold new values, and never shrink |
| 01:57.34 | Legorol | right |
| 01:57.49 | Legorol | so in other words, if the table is already big enough, it will not cost you to store "1" |
| 01:57.55 | Iriel | exactly |
| 01:57.56 | Legorol | but you will not gain back anything either by niling it |
| 01:58.15 | Iriel | correct |
| 01:58.33 | Iriel | (The nilling is for collectable object references) |
| 01:58.42 | Legorol | yep |
| 01:58.45 | Legorol | now, consider this: |
| 01:58.51 | Legorol | i want to define 20 local variables |
| 01:58.57 | Legorol | i could define them as locals |
| 01:59.04 | Legorol | or i could grab a table from the manager and put them in there |
| 01:59.15 | Iriel | yup |
| 01:59.15 | Legorol | if the table wasn't big enough to hold 20 entires, it would have to grow |
| 01:59.21 | Legorol | that allocates mem |
| 01:59.28 | Iriel | Correct, but we can assume you pre-allocate your tables |
| 01:59.28 | Legorol | that mem is not released, even if i nil the entries |
| 01:59.33 | Iriel | and that the 'free pool' had one from earlier |
| 01:59.36 | Legorol | this is just an example |
| 01:59.37 | kergoth | Iriel: wouldnt the algorithm by which it grows/shrinks vary depending on whether its numerically indexed or not? the implementation under the hood is completely different. the former is an array, the latter is a hash table |
| 01:59.45 | Iriel | kergoth : It doesn't appear to be |
| 01:59.48 | kergoth | at least in lua 5.0 and higher |
| 01:59.49 | Legorol | let's say you had a table in the free pool, but one that has only grown to size 10 so far |
| 01:59.53 | kergoth | previously it didnt do that optimization |
| 01:59.56 | Iriel | Well, let me rephraset that |
| 02:00.07 | Legorol | can i finish my exmaple please? |
| 02:00.08 | Iriel | the impact of adding entries depends on which KIND of entry you add |
| 02:00.15 | Legorol | then you guys can explain to me whether it would matter or not |
| 02:00.17 | Iriel | Sorry, yes,.. i'll finish my diversion later |
| 02:00.25 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 02:00.32 | Legorol | so lets say the manager gave you a table that had size 10 so to speak |
| 02:00.38 | Legorol | and because you add 20 entries, it has to grow |
| 02:00.48 | Legorol | and now that table will stay size 20 |
| 02:00.56 | Legorol | i don't know if this way of lookign at it makes sense or not, you tell me |
| 02:01.02 | Legorol | as opposed to that, if i allocate locals, |
| 02:01.11 | Legorol | when i return from the function, the memory associated with them is immediately freed |
| 02:01.12 | Iriel | I think we're arguing slightly different points. |
| 02:01.14 | Legorol | afaik at least |
| 02:01.30 | Iriel | It is true that a table pool implementation will have an impact on GC memory, up to the size of the pooled tables. |
| 02:01.32 | Legorol | the above example was for the case of trying to put the numbers 1 to 20 say in variables |
| 02:01.45 | Iriel | HOWEVER, once in steady state, it's going to be identical |
| 02:01.56 | Iriel | and steady state would be achieved very quickly |
| 02:02.24 | Legorol | isn't there a danger of the pooled tables growing? |
| 02:02.33 | Iriel | there's a danger of having too many |
| 02:02.35 | Legorol | i mean they would tend to grow to the largest table use |
| 02:02.43 | Iriel | that depends |
| 02:02.51 | Iriel | Sea already assumes you only have 20 return values |
| 02:02.55 | Iriel | so You can limit it there |
| 02:02.56 | Legorol | well assuming that the sequence of requests for tables is random |
| 02:03.24 | Legorol | ok i think i see what you mean by the steady state |
| 02:03.25 | Iriel | well, i'm talking about for THIS example |
| 02:03.36 | Iriel | the most tables you need is the deepest stack of hooked funciton calls |
| 02:03.41 | Legorol | there'd be a typical table size usage |
| 02:03.43 | Iriel | it's by definition a finite depth |
| 02:04.00 | Legorol | wait, wait |
| 02:04.06 | Legorol | what does it have to do with depth of calls? |
| 02:04.14 | Iriel | well, for THIS application |
| 02:04.19 | Legorol | that'd determine the number of tables used |
| 02:04.26 | Legorol | not the size of the tables, those would be 20 |
| 02:04.28 | AnduinLothar | ok, well thx guys. i gtg now. off to see harry potter. still got more seahooks work to be done before it rdy. gonna see if i can make some functions addon local so they don't get hacked |
| 02:04.31 | Iriel | that's how many sets of return values you have 'in play' |
| 02:04.34 | kergoth | honestly, i dont see the point of any of this |
| 02:04.34 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, have fun |
| 02:04.38 | Legorol | Iriel, yes |
| 02:04.47 | Legorol | kergoth: theoretical discussion, exercise for the mind ;-) |
| 02:04.47 | kergoth | the overhead of creating a single table is minimal compared to the elements in the table |
| 02:04.54 | Legorol | if any of you guys had enough, don't let me hold you up! |
| 02:05.05 | Legorol | kergoth: no not true |
| 02:05.11 | kergoth | the table overhead is 32 bytes, the overhead of each key/value pair in the hash table is 28 bytes (32 on g4) |
| 02:05.18 | Legorol | empricial evidence over the past several months shows that is definitely not the case |
| 02:05.21 | Iriel | standalone LUA or WoW? |
| 02:05.36 | Legorol | many AddOns have significantly improved their GC generation when converted from table allocation to something else |
| 02:05.42 | kergoth | well, i'm telling you what the folks i know who code on the lua core have told me about the overhead, adn what i've read in the sources myself |
| 02:05.44 | Iriel | WoW in x86 is http://www.wowwiki.com/Memory_Usage |
| 02:05.54 | Iriel | Slouken re-wrote the memory manager |
| 02:05.55 | Iriel | for wow |
| 02:06.05 | Iriel | (Not the GC, just the underlying memory manager) |
| 02:06.32 | Iriel | standalone LUA is very different. |
| 02:06.34 | Legorol | correct me if i am wrong, but no matter whether it's the actual table creation, or the addition of elements into the table that consumes memory, |
| 02:06.36 | Iriel | Legorol : Yes, that doesn't surprise me |
| 02:06.46 | Iriel | the problem isn't the creation, the problem is that people create and then release tables all the time |
| 02:06.47 | Legorol | either way, creation of tables in OnUpdates say caused lot of memory use |
| 02:06.56 | Iriel | Converting your code to re-use tables has a HUGE improvement |
| 02:07.04 | Legorol | yes that's what we found too |
| 02:07.16 | Iriel | Tables are quite large (relatively) |
| 02:07.20 | Iriel | 32 bytes for an empty table |
| 02:07.23 | Legorol | Iriel, in what way did slouken alter the memory manager? |
| 02:07.56 | Iriel | Legorol : I dont know, I just know that he did (probably to make it work properly within the wow client, and to implement the hard limit) |
| 02:08.14 | Iriel | 16 bytes per 'array' entry (Allocated in exponentially increasing numbers) |
| 02:08.23 | Iriel | 80 (Yes EIGHTY) bytes per 'name' entry |
| 02:08.52 | kergoth | what evidence is there of that? |
| 02:08.56 | Iriel | Of what? |
| 02:09.00 | kergoth | i hardly think they screwed up the core that much |
| 02:09.00 | Iriel | Those numbers, or the slouken thing? |
| 02:09.04 | kergoth | those numbers |
| 02:09.10 | Iriel | I spent a long time testing |
| 02:09.12 | kergoth | it isn't 80 in lua 5.0 proper |
| 02:09.12 | Iriel | and wrote it up |
| 02:09.17 | Iriel | so I believe those numbers |
| 02:09.26 | Legorol | well the actual numbers are not that important |
| 02:09.29 | Iriel | I know, I tested it in both |
| 02:09.30 | kergoth | i didnt ask whether you believed it |
| 02:09.36 | Legorol | throwing away tables is a Bad Thing, full stop ;-) |
| 02:09.36 | kergoth | i asked where the evidence was |
| 02:09.38 | Iriel | I measured it in both environments 8-) |
| 02:10.07 | Legorol | Iriel, thanks for this discussion |
| 02:10.15 | Legorol | i now understand better why reusing tables has such a huge impact |
| 02:10.27 | Legorol | previously i was surprised because i thought all you save on is the memory for the table itself |
| 02:10.33 | Legorol | but now i see you save memory per entry too |
| 02:10.39 | Iriel | kergoth : The numbers I got out of stock 5.0 were more consistent with the numbers you listed earlier |
| 02:10.48 | kergoth | okay, that's what i was wondering |
| 02:10.50 | kergoth | that's unfortunate |
| 02:11.17 | Iriel | I'm sure tehre's a good reason for it |
| 02:12.00 | Legorol | we have a function for splitting text at delimiters |
| 02:12.08 | Legorol | the result was previously put into a table |
| 02:12.11 | Guillotine_ | ttyl guys. bye |
| 02:12.14 | Iriel | Understanding how table allocation (and re-allocation) works can make you write far more memory efficient code. |
| 02:12.18 | Legorol | we had huge performance increase when we reused the table that the result was put into |
| 02:12.21 | Cair | later Guillotine_ |
| 02:12.38 | Iriel | Legorol : I have a very similar function in some of my code, with the same result |
| 02:12.45 | Guillotine_ | is cair really here or does she have a bot that says "later $nick" when someone says ttyl or bye/ |
| 02:12.55 | kergoth | it's also worth noting that while lua resizes tables to power of 2 sizes, it creates to the exact size when values are set in the constructor. i.e. {1,2,3,4,5} will in fact only be 5 elements. |
| 02:12.57 | Cair | duh, bot of course :p |
| 02:12.59 | Legorol | we kept backwards compatibility by having a table as an optional extra argument to the splitter |
| 02:13.00 | Guillotine_ | or maybe cair is just a robot... |
| 02:13.08 | Legorol | if no argument, the splitter creates new table |
| 02:13.11 | Cair | and if you believe that, I've got a bridge for sale ... |
| 02:13.12 | Guillotine_ | bye Mrs. Robot |
| 02:13.17 | Legorol | however, if passed an argument, it uses that table to fill up |
| 02:13.24 | kergoth | ~emulate stewie |
| 02:13.26 | purl | Ha ha. Oh, this is so good it just HAS to be fattening. |
| 02:13.36 | Legorol | so it's the callers decision/responsibility to reuse his tables used for splitting |
| 02:14.12 | Iriel | Knowing whcih functions use getn and which use first-index-with-nil-value can allow you to avoid even having to empty tables in some situations |
| 02:14.42 | Legorol | you can always avoid emptying by calling setn, can't you? |
| 02:14.51 | Iriel | No |
| 02:14.52 | Legorol | as long as your code is "well behaved" in the sense of relying on getn |
| 02:14.58 | Iriel | sometimes you need to put a terminating nil in there |
| 02:15.00 | Legorol | and not an iterator |
| 02:15.08 | Iriel | if you're using the standard functions (like ipairs) |
| 02:15.10 | Legorol | well relying on the nil thing is dangerous |
| 02:15.23 | kergoth | the lua standard library code often relies on nil termination. |
| 02:15.25 | Iriel | I've found terminating-nil-and-setn to be the pragmatic approach |
| 02:15.29 | Legorol | because the standard Lua functions have two difrerent behaviour depending on whether setn was called or not |
| 02:15.41 | Iriel | Well, yes and no |
| 02:15.42 | kergoth | setn doesn't even exist in 5.1, interestingly enough |
| 02:15.43 | Legorol | there is a "hidden" n |
| 02:15.59 | Legorol | example: table.remove |
| 02:16.06 | Iriel | I dont like the fact that lots of cosmos code uses a visible n by the way |
| 02:16.08 | Legorol | that will rely on the n set by setn if it was set before |
| 02:16.13 | Legorol | otherwise it relies on nil termination |
| 02:16.15 | Legorol | or something like that |
| 02:16.18 | Iriel | yes |
| 02:16.25 | Iriel | but it's well described in the documentation whcih things do which |
| 02:16.31 | Legorol | yeah |
| 02:16.39 | Legorol | i agree that using visible n is not useful |
| 02:16.46 | Legorol | but all that setn does is create an "n" anyway, afaik |
| 02:16.51 | Iriel | No |
| 02:16.52 | kergoth | nope. |
| 02:16.54 | Legorol | insert/remove use an invisible "n" |
| 02:16.56 | Iriel | it's stored 'out of sight' |
| 02:17.01 | Legorol | if a "visible" one is not present |
| 02:17.04 | Legorol | Iriel, not afaik |
| 02:17.05 | kergoth | nope |
| 02:17.09 | Legorol | if you call setn, you should have a table.n available |
| 02:17.11 | kergoth | it never uses a visible n |
| 02:17.17 | Legorol | that's why it gets complicated |
| 02:17.43 | Legorol | ok, it's even more complicated than i thought: |
| 02:17.47 | Legorol | nt see the point of any of this |
| 02:17.47 | Legorol | [02:04] <Legorol> Iriel, yes |
| 02:17.52 | Legorol | table.setn (table, n) |
| 02:17.52 | Legorol | Updates the size of a table. If the table has a field "n" with a numerical value, that value is changed to the given n. Otherwise, it updates an internal state so that subsequent calls to table.getn(table) return n. |
| 02:17.52 | kergoth | ~/.ctrlproxy/logs/Freenode$ lua |
| 02:17.53 | kergoth | Lua 5.0.2 Copyright (C) 1994-2004 Tecgraf, PUC-Rio |
| 02:17.53 | kergoth | > t = {} |
| 02:17.53 | kergoth | > table.setn(t, 5) |
| 02:17.53 | kergoth | > print(t.n) |
| 02:17.53 | kergoth | nil |
| 02:18.03 | Iriel | BUT |
| 02:18.06 | Iriel | X={1,2,3,4,5,6} |
| 02:18.10 | Iriel | X.n = 3 |
| 02:18.16 | Iriel | return table.getn(X) |
| 02:18.17 | Iriel | 3 |
| 02:18.19 | Legorol | yep |
| 02:18.28 | Legorol | so if there isn't an n, it uses internal |
| 02:18.32 | Legorol | otherwise it uses the visible one |
| 02:18.42 | Legorol | let me remember what the example was that has thrown someone off |
| 02:18.49 | kergoth | i expect that's for compatibility with old lua code |
| 02:18.55 | Iriel | I'm guessing that's for backwards compatibility with the pre-getn arg code |
| 02:18.56 | kergoth | since it wasnt always invisible, afaik |
| 02:18.59 | kergoth | yeah |
| 02:19.05 | Iriel | Either way |
| 02:19.07 | Legorol | oh, i remember |
| 02:19.11 | Iriel | one should never use .n directly in modern code |
| 02:19.36 | Legorol | getn will return nil-based element if the hidden "n" wasn't set before, but returns the hidden "n" if it was set, or the visible "n" if it exists |
| 02:19.43 | kergoth | if you need metadata on a table, it isnt hard to stuff it into the metatable if appropriate, or use a weak keyed table. putting such things in the table itself and thereby polluting its namspace is bad |
| 02:20.09 | Legorol | so someone wrote a code like this that was obviously buggy as a result: |
| 02:20.17 | Legorol | X = { 1, 2, 3 } |
| 02:20.23 | Legorol | getn(X) => 3 |
| 02:20.28 | Iriel | This reminds me, do you know who on the cosmos team decided that table.remove and table.insert caused garbage? |
| 02:20.29 | Legorol | remove(X) |
| 02:20.34 | Legorol | X[3] = 3 |
| 02:20.38 | Legorol | getn(X) => 2 |
| 02:20.46 | Legorol | and the guy expected getn(X) to be 3 |
| 02:20.50 | tyndral | beans + bacon + chili + cheese + corn chips 4tw. |
| 02:21.02 | Legorol | Iriel: sorry, don't know, it was done before i joined |
| 02:21.13 | Legorol | i beleive it has been established that the Sea push/pop is more efficient |
| 02:21.17 | Iriel | Well, thats' the general rule, dont mix manual addressing and insert/remove unless you actually know what you're doing |
| 02:21.18 | Legorol | i am not sure how true that is |
| 02:21.18 | Iriel | It's not |
| 02:21.34 | Iriel | Well, EXCEPT that sea's pop doesn't release the entry |
| 02:21.47 | Iriel | so can use up all your memory with trash |
| 02:21.53 | Legorol | that sounds bad... |
| 02:21.57 | Legorol | i never looked there :-) |
| 02:22.34 | Iriel | I blame poor testing methodology and a lack of understanding of LUA tables and memory, but nobody is confessing to having done the original test |
| 02:22.35 | Legorol | I think you will find that there are many things in Cosmos that could be done better |
| 02:22.43 | Iriel | so I can't find out if I'm just missing something |
| 02:22.45 | Legorol | it is based on lots of code that's been around since Betas |
| 02:22.50 | Legorol | and we have all learnt a lot since |
| 02:22.51 | Legorol | at least i did |
| 02:23.13 | Iriel | Optimizing OnUpdate handlers taught me more about memory management than anything else 8-) |
| 02:23.14 | tyndral | as much as it's an absolutely snormous undertaken, has the team or anyone on it considered rewriting the basis of cosmos? |
| 02:23.26 | tyndral | from scratch, not rejigging existing code. |
| 02:23.27 | Legorol | what do you mean by "basis"? |
| 02:23.40 | Legorol | at the moment, Cosmos's core is a few libraries |
| 02:23.43 | Legorol | Sea, Sky, Earth, Khaos |
| 02:23.51 | Legorol | some of those have old code, some old and new, some only new ;-) |
| 02:24.00 | tyndral | basis was a bad choice of word. sorry. :) |
| 02:24.06 | Legorol | np at all |
| 02:24.09 | Legorol | i am open to any suggestions |
| 02:24.20 | Legorol | as long as its constructive and not anti-Cosmos and open hatred ;-) |
| 02:24.21 | tyndral | what i'm talking about is a rewrite from the ground up of anything that is suspected, or known, to have been inefficient. |
| 02:24.45 | Legorol | it could be possible |
| 02:24.52 | Legorol | unfortunately noone is motivated, i don't think :-) |
| 02:24.56 | Legorol | much more interesting to write new stuff |
| 02:25.00 | tyndral | that is to say, if it's beginnings predate a particular time, it gets rewritten. |
| 02:25.11 | zeeg | whats with all the strange colors in the addon management screen |
| 02:25.13 | Legorol | i don't mean to be bashing anyone, but i sometimes feel that some of the criticism against Cosmos is unfair |
| 02:25.30 | Iriel | zeeg : enabled for all, enabled for some |
| 02:25.35 | tyndral | functionally identical, but 'correct' by todays understanding of what is right, rather than the often misguided understanding from beta times. |
| 02:25.36 | zeeg | "some" ? |
| 02:25.41 | zeeg | like |
| 02:25.45 | Legorol | because Cosmos, having lots of old code, is often compared with codes that are written with the "modern" knowledge we have about WoW Lua |
| 02:25.48 | zeeg | theres some red, green, gray |
| 02:25.49 | zeeg | like |
| 02:25.55 | zeeg | "UUI -" is blue, then the words after are gray |
| 02:25.56 | Legorol | tyndral, it would be a good thing if it happened |
| 02:25.57 | Iriel | Like, 2 of your characters have it enabled, but others dont |
| 02:26.02 | tyndral | my suggestion would fix that problem, Legorol. |
| 02:26.04 | zeeg | you can specify per character in-game now? |
| 02:26.07 | Legorol | try to motivate people though ;-) |
| 02:26.08 | Iriel | Yes |
| 02:26.10 | zeeg | GRRR |
| 02:26.15 | zeeg | damnit blizzard |
| 02:26.15 | Legorol | we are all dedicating our free time for a hobby |
| 02:26.15 | zeeg | i hate you |
| 02:26.16 | zeeg | with a passion |
| 02:26.23 | Iriel | There are mouseovers on many of the checkboxes and things with some helpful text |
| 02:26.29 | zeeg | per character or per account? |
| 02:26.37 | Iriel | Per (realm,character) |
| 02:26.56 | Iriel | that is a tuple, indicating both are matrixed for the answer |
| 02:26.57 | zeeg | hrmm strange |
| 02:27.02 | zeeg | is that in 1.9 Iriel? |
| 02:27.04 | Iriel | Though on THAT screen you only see your current ralm |
| 02:27.08 | Iriel | realm, even |
| 02:27.09 | Iriel | yes, 1.9 |
| 02:27.10 | tyndral | sure, i know - the joy of volunteer workers. everyone loves doing something new. no one wants to fix what already 'kinda works' - i know it myself from doing my own web development for my business - and given the volunteer status of the cosmos team, you can't just create a sub-team to do it. they'll just leave. |
| 02:27.16 | zeeg | oh |
| 02:27.17 | zeeg | i havent tested 1.9 |
| 02:27.21 | zeeg | although that upsets me a bit |
| 02:27.25 | tyndral | but the benefits of doing so would be quite large. |
| 02:27.27 | zeeg | as i had to dev take extra time to add that feature in |
| 02:27.31 | zeeg | makes profiles more or less useless now :P |
| 02:27.32 | Iriel | I figured you were referring to 1.9 8-) |
| 02:27.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust238.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:27.43 | Tain | It's still only going to matter if someone enjoys doing it, tyndral. |
| 02:28.03 | Legorol|alt | back.. |
| 02:28.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust238.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:28.13 | Iriel | I think AnduinLothar has been 'fixing' bits of the cosmos infrastructure, but I dont know if he's feeding stuff back into the core repository |
| 02:28.32 | Legorol|alt | he is |
| 02:28.40 | tyndral | i don't think 'fixing' is good enough. personal opinion, obviously. but nothing fixes code like an entire rewrite. |
| 02:28.44 | Legorol|alt | (what's he doing here) |
| 02:28.49 | *** kick/#wowi-lounge [Legorol!n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by Cair (Cair) |
| 02:28.53 | Legorol|alt | ty, Cair |
| 02:28.54 | Legorol|alt | brb |
| 02:28.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust238.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:29.03 | Legorol|alt | bah |
| 02:29.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol|alt (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust238.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 02:29.16 | Cair | you need to /ghost |
| 02:29.21 | Legorol|alt | why??? |
| 02:29.25 | Legorol|alt | ghost? |
| 02:29.25 | tyndral | it doesn't need to be done all at once, obviously. identify key problem areas, and start there. |
| 02:29.40 | tyndral | but really, with you having clear connection problems right now, this probably isn't the right time ;) |
| 02:29.42 | kergoth | Legorol|alt: /msg nickserv help |
| 02:30.19 | Legorol | right, sorted |
| 02:30.26 | Legorol | yes Anduin has been rewriting some stuff |
| 02:30.30 | Legorol | whenever that happens, of course it goes in |
| 02:30.39 | Legorol | to be honest, i think some of the problem is that Cosmos is very old in its roots |
| 02:31.00 | Legorol | unfortunately people rather than appreciating some of the stuff it contributed to the community, bash it for what it does/is :( |
| 02:31.01 | tyndral | and I agree with you, Legorol, Cosmos does cop more than it's fair share of stick. It's a lot better than some people say. |
| 02:31.03 | Legorol | but that's just my opinion |
| 02:31.07 | kergoth | mmm, mudslide |
| 02:31.07 | Mondinga | heh, ive been rewriting various pieces of gypsymod since release |
| 02:31.16 | Legorol | i know of many problems that is our fault |
| 02:31.20 | Mondinga | learn something new, go back and implement/fix things, endless cycle |
| 02:31.22 | Legorol | and we are trying to change those things |
| 02:31.29 | Cair | we've been through this one, haven't we Legorol :) |
| 02:31.32 | Legorol | yep |
| 02:31.46 | tyndral | the fact that it's "old in its roots" is exactly what I'm talking about. that is certainly a lot of the problem. none of the team, back in beta, knows what they do now. and, i imagine, the team is alot bigger now. |
| 02:31.52 | Legorol | anyway, this isn't the Cosmos channel, so i will leave the topic ;-) |
| 02:32.02 | Cair | naw, it's okay, within limits |
| 02:32.12 | Cair | bash another mod, I get annoyed |
| 02:32.17 | tyndral | *shrug* it's a ui channel, we're talking code practices, not cosmos specifically. |
| 02:32.17 | Legorol | can i bash my own? |
| 02:32.19 | Legorol | :-) |
| 02:32.24 | Cair | discuss ways to improve your own, with input from the channel, that's fine |
| 02:32.32 | Tain | Cair don't like it... Rock the cosmos, Rock the cosmos |
| 02:32.37 | Cair | that's why the channel is here |
| 02:32.57 | Legorol | I would also say that Cosmos being there as a "black sheep" actually created lot of competition/innovation which is a good thing |
| 02:33.02 | Tain | I don't know anymore words to the song. :( |
| 02:33.02 | Cair | I wish SOMEONE would rock my cosmos :p |
| 02:33.30 | tyndral | and I'm certainly not bashing Cosmos. I just beleive that a lot of the bashing it does get could be alleviated by doing some serious finetuning. |
| 02:33.46 | Cair | getting rid of "nopatch" |
| 02:33.50 | Legorol | The only time i get sad is when people attack Cosmos people personally, or at least the team and its practices |
| 02:33.51 | tyndral | a lot of the bashing is undeserved. that which is deserved is often blown entirely out of proportion. |
| 02:33.53 | Tain | Unfortunatly that's not entirely true, tyndral. |
| 02:33.58 | Legorol | now 110% admittedly i have done the same to others |
| 02:34.07 | Legorol | for which i am very sorry and am trying to never do that again |
| 02:34.08 | Tain | The majority of people don't have any technical understanding of Cosmos at all. |
| 02:34.13 | Tain | They bash because other people bash. |
| 02:34.27 | Tain | It's a pure sheep herd reaction. |
| 02:34.32 | Legorol | Cair, i so much wish we could get rid of "nopatch" |
| 02:34.38 | Cair | I know |
| 02:34.41 | tyndral | know, but they "heard this" and "heard that" and it baloons out. Yes, people bash Cosmos coz it's htere, but it does come from somewhere. |
| 02:34.44 | Tain | I delete nopatch from any AddOn I install. |
| 02:34.50 | Legorol | ok, this is "off the record", i am saying this in a capacity in which i don't represent Cosmos: |
| 02:34.50 | Cair | as I said, I acknowledge that you and I have been over this already |
| 02:34.56 | Legorol | i think we should get rid of the patcher :D |
| 02:35.07 | tyndral | i'll agree with you 100% there, Legorol |
| 02:35.07 | Legorol | ok i won't rehash it |
| 02:35.11 | Cair | I've seen that you guys are already starting to put a lot of what I suggested into play, which is good |
| 02:35.11 | Tain | I agree! |
| 02:35.17 | Cair | no no, rehash all you want |
| 02:35.26 | Legorol | on the record: the patcher is good, the patcher is your friend :p |
| 02:35.50 | tyndral | it is pointless. it serves no purpose. and it's responible for a million "how do I use cosmos on my mac?" "will i get a virus from cosmos?" "is cosmos a 3rd party app?" threads in the forums. |
| 02:36.27 | Legorol | it used to have a point, and it still does serve some purposes |
| 02:36.31 | Legorol | but it's very antiquated |
| 02:36.32 | Tain | I heard cosmos kicks puppies. :/ |
| 02:36.38 | Cair | I damn near fell over when I saw Gryphon put Cosmos up on WoWI |
| 02:36.38 | Legorol | it eats them, not kicks them! |
| 02:36.50 | Legorol | Cair, was it the exe or the zip? |
| 02:36.54 | Cair | the exe |
| 02:36.54 | Legorol | and is that a bad or good thing? |
| 02:36.56 | Legorol | oh i see |
| 02:37.00 | Cair | it's a GOOD thing |
| 02:37.07 | tyndral | the only purpose I see it serving is giving people who are more than capable of learning how to use their computer a good excuse not to bother. |
| 02:37.27 | Legorol | well it's intended purpose is to avoid having to download a large zip to update your addons |
| 02:37.31 | Legorol | which is a good thing in principle |
| 02:37.33 | Cair | no, the reason for the patcher is the same reason zeeg is getting his going |
| 02:37.46 | Cair | it's to scoop data to upload to the site :p |
| 02:37.48 | kremonte | anyone mind telling me why this wont show anything: http://wow.pastebin.com/438358 |
| 02:37.50 | tyndral | it certainly is, in principle. but how big is the entire cosmos distribution? |
| 02:37.59 | Legorol | 5-10 Mb, i think |
| 02:38.01 | tyndral | cair: no comment :) |
| 02:38.04 | Legorol | can't remember, but it's the order of Mbs |
| 02:38.12 | Legorol | certainly not something you want to download on a 56K |
| 02:38.27 | tyndral | and would I be being too presumptive to say that 10mb in todays world amounts to less than a pile of beans? |
| 02:38.29 | Iriel | kremonte : Did you check Logs/FrameXML.log ? |
| 02:38.32 | Cair | None of the sites created a patcher just for the sake of making it easier for the community |
| 02:38.37 | Legorol | tyndral: yes |
| 02:38.41 | tyndral | i wouldn't want to play wow over 56k either. though I know people do. |
| 02:38.41 | Cair | Not Curse's, not Cosmos's, not Guru's |
| 02:38.43 | Legorol | especially if you wanted to download daily |
| 02:38.50 | kergoth | imho: first, addons arent generally that large. second, there are known well accepted tools for managing changes to files for source control systems. reinventing the wheel in a "patcher" is just silly. |
| 02:39.01 | Legorol | heck, i played WoW over 10 Kbs connection, and it worked |
| 02:39.02 | kremonte | wow, i never knew a logs folder existed |
| 02:39.04 | Legorol | i only had a 1000 ms ping time |
| 02:39.08 | Cair | We don't have one, because our coder didn't follow through |
| 02:39.18 | Iriel | AFAIK Zeeg's tool STARTED as a pure downloader |
| 02:39.29 | tyndral | it did start that way yes. |
| 02:39.30 | Legorol | kergoth, the patcher is a user front end for the players |
| 02:39.39 | Legorol | it isn't reinventing the wheel, it is based on a version control system |
| 02:39.39 | kremonte | Iriel, nothing there >< |
| 02:39.50 | kergoth | ah, good good. didnt realize |
| 02:39.57 | Legorol | well sort of |
| 02:40.01 | Legorol | it's a dumb system thoguh :( |
| 02:40.20 | Tain | I actually think an auto downloader for AddOn updates is a bad idea. Well, a good theoretical idea. But is more likely to lead to trouble in practice. |
| 02:40.22 | Iriel | kremonte : There is no layer called HIGH |
| 02:40.23 | Tain | (In my opinion.) |
| 02:40.31 | Legorol | there is, Iriel |
| 02:40.35 | Iriel | kremonte : Use ARTWORK or OVERLAY or HIGHLIGHT |
| 02:40.37 | kremonte | oh yea, thats a frame strata... geegee |
| 02:40.38 | Legorol | oh |
| 02:40.39 | kremonte | thanks |
| 02:40.44 | Legorol | oops, yeah you are right |
| 02:41.49 | Legorol | darn, the connection dropping kicked me out of test |
| 02:41.51 | Mondinga | since were on the topic of patchers, gyspypatcher was made just for my retarded roomates~ |
| 02:41.57 | Legorol | fortunatley the queue is only 45 minutes and not 4 hours like earlier :D |
| 02:42.01 | kremonte | haha, and on top of that i forgot <Layers> >< |
| 02:43.00 | zeeg | well |
| 02:43.16 | zeeg | the patcher originally was designed as a downloader/data collector, we didnt want just a generic data collector, we wanted to help the community at the same time they help us |
| 02:43.23 | zeeg | data collection is always optional in it of course :) |
| 02:44.26 | Cair | I tend to *not* talk about ours, since the programmer that was supposed to make it and didn't is a friend and he really really let us down |
| 02:44.43 | kergoth | on another note: http://rafb.net/paste/results/oR6ZBV23.html <- awfully cool |
| 02:44.49 | zeeg | :\ |
| 02:44.54 | zeeg | the guy who made ours just.. disappeared |
| 02:45.01 | zeeg | it was the guy who made uhh, that RP Quest thing |
| 02:45.04 | zeeg | player made quest system |
| 02:45.56 | Cair | shame he left, that player made quest looked like it had real potential |
| 02:46.02 | Cair | folks would have loved it |
| 02:46.25 | zeeg | ya i know |
| 02:46.45 | zeeg | he was just about to graduate from school (CS) when he was working on ours and was getting his life situated, cool guy dont know what happened to him |
| 02:46.53 | Cair | life |
| 02:46.56 | zeeg | he only wanted like $25 for our old one |
| 02:47.00 | zeeg | i gave him more, but jeez |
| 02:47.06 | zeeg | compared to 5,000 for this one :( |
| 02:50.27 | Cair | some people are just tstl |
| 02:50.27 | Legorol | it's crazy, innit |
| 02:50.40 | zeeg | tstl? |
| 02:50.46 | Cair | too stupid to live |
| 02:50.50 | zeeg | O.o |
| 02:50.53 | Legorol | is that directed at zeeg? |
| 02:50.57 | zeeg | o.O |
| 02:50.58 | Cair | that's it, out of the gene pool, turn in your thumbs |
| 02:51.00 | Cair | no |
| 02:51.05 | zeeg | Legorol! |
| 02:51.06 | Cair | blizz ui forum |
| 02:51.12 | Legorol | then i misunderstood something |
| 02:51.18 | Legorol | sorry zeeg |
| 02:51.20 | Cair | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=270213&s=new&tmp=1#new |
| 02:51.21 | zeeg | Legorol, zeeg's a genius :P |
| 02:51.36 | Legorol | i will let that pass |
| 02:51.50 | Cair | naw, if I were talking about zeeg, I'd just tell him to go fuck himself, that's a known quantity :p ;) |
| 02:51.56 | zeeg | :P |
| 02:52.04 | zeeg | ya! |
| 02:52.13 | Legorol | don't even want to start imaginign, scary! |
| 02:52.20 | Cair | if it was, men would never leave their homes |
| 02:52.24 | zeeg | lol |
| 02:52.31 | zeeg | i dont leave enough anyways |
| 02:52.32 | Legorol | now that was so under-handed |
| 02:52.34 | zeeg | im actually home this friday :| |
| 02:52.36 | Cair | ;) |
| 02:52.48 | Cair | and you love me anyway, don't you Legorol ;) |
| 02:53.05 | Cair | *chuckle* |
| 02:53.09 | Legorol | you implying that my missus has only one use |
| 02:53.16 | Legorol | what about the support, care and attention she gives me |
| 02:53.16 | Cair | Nope |
| 02:53.20 | zeeg | she can cook too |
| 02:53.22 | zeeg | cant she? |
| 02:53.29 | Legorol | actually, i do the cooking, at least half the time |
| 02:53.36 | zeeg | then yes, that's what Cair was implying |
| 02:53.36 | zeeg | P |
| 02:53.38 | zeeg | :P |
| 02:53.42 | Cair | nope |
| 02:54.07 | Legorol | i'm a very domestificated animal, as far as male standards go |
| 02:54.11 | Legorol | or so i like to tell myself |
| 02:54.16 | Cair | being female, I actually recognize that we women are a whole hell of a lot smarter than you males give us credit for |
| 02:54.32 | Legorol | i don't dispute the clever bit, i dispute the credit bit ;-) |
| 02:54.40 | Mondinga | actually cair? omg~ |
| 02:54.41 | Cair | *laugh* |
| 02:54.58 | Cair | huh? |
| 02:55.11 | Legorol | Mondinga is in shock |
| 02:55.16 | Mondinga | yes, shock |
| 02:55.26 | Cair | about? |
| 02:55.35 | Legorol | about the truth you told him |
| 02:55.37 | Cair | ah |
| 02:55.38 | Mondinga | woulda never guessed females thought like that! |
| 02:55.39 | Legorol | that women are actually smart |
| 02:55.48 | zeeg | ot smarter than you males give us credit for |
| 02:55.50 | Legorol | i knew it a long time, but it must be a first for Mondinga |
| 02:55.52 | zeeg | not smarter than us tho! |
| 02:55.59 | Legorol | i'm not so sure.. |
| 02:56.16 | Legorol | i have seen women wrap man around their fingers, not many the other way around |
| 02:56.27 | zeeg | thats just manipulation, not intelligence |
| 02:56.29 | Cair | I thought maybe it was the fact that it's friday night, you guys have stopped talking code, I've started drinking ... let the flirting and partying begin |
| 02:56.34 | Tain | Thankfully I'm brilliant. |
| 02:56.38 | Legorol | whilst women can do all the same jobs and learn all the same skills as men, |
| 02:56.40 | Cair | manipulation *is* intelligence, hello? |
| 02:56.46 | Legorol | they are hell of a lot better at manipulating the other sex |
| 02:56.49 | zeeg | i get this strange vibe that there's more women then men in this discussion :P |
| 02:56.50 | Cair | like, duh |
| 02:57.07 | Cair | I'm the only female in the channel |
| 02:57.08 | Legorol | so that means women are one step ahead |
| 02:57.11 | Tain | That's really more a function of guys being easier to manipulate than women being better at it. |
| 02:57.17 | Cair | just a bunch of the others are married, thus they know better |
| 02:57.27 | Legorol | oh it definitely takes skill to manipulate me, and it happens |
| 02:57.44 | Tain | When you only have enough blood in your body to fuel one of two organs, manipulation gets quite easy. |
| 02:57.46 | Legorol | this is not an ego thing |
| 02:57.53 | Legorol | i am just very simpleminded and selfcentred |
| 02:58.14 | Legorol | no you have..... ehm... wait |
| 02:58.25 | zeeg | im very selfcentered! |
| 02:58.28 | Cair | You're in this channel, aren't you? Point, set & match |
| 02:58.41 | zeeg | I am on 8 network(s) in 41 channel(s) harassing 3929 user(s) |
| 02:58.54 | Legorol | are you attributing that fact to personal charms, as opposed to the allure of the UI community present here? ;-) |
| 02:59.06 | Cair | *pouts* |
| 02:59.16 | Legorol | you take me to be less of a geek than i am |
| 02:59.18 | zeeg | that doesnt work when you live in an igloo |
| 02:59.25 | Tain | Yeah, I'm going with the charms. |
| 02:59.35 | Cair | zeeg: go fuck yourself :p ;) |
| 02:59.37 | zeeg | :P |
| 02:59.41 | zeeg | IGLOOS |
| 02:59.41 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 02:59.46 | Iriel | I liked that one |
| 02:59.50 | Tain | zeeg is just jealous because he's not one of the cool people. |
| 02:59.58 | zeeg | define cool people |
| 03:00.07 | zeeg | Tain, are you on the Ace team |
| 03:00.09 | Legorol | temperature below 36 degrees Celsius |
| 03:00.14 | Cair | liked which one, Iriel? |
| 03:00.57 | Legorol | i have just taken up herb/alch on my latest char, never done it before, so far i am loving it |
| 03:01.01 | Cair | mmmmm, you guys need to get busy, I've got my first drink almost 1/2 gone now ... |
| 03:01.05 | Mondinga | cool people? didnt know there were other gnomes in here |
| 03:01.07 | Legorol | at around 200 in alchemy, i am starting to get serious money rolling in |
| 03:01.10 | Iriel | The igloo comment |
| 03:01.16 | Cair | bah, hush you |
| 03:01.16 | zeeg | its true is it not? :P |
| 03:01.51 | Tain | heh damnit people keep looting the herbs I'm testing with. |
| 03:01.52 | Cair | or I'll tell your fiancee that you were in my hotel room taking pictures of me |
| 03:01.55 | zeeg | i dont get how blizzard can hate me so for unreleased content, yet they hired someone who's done the same stuff as me (less competition, but still!) |
| 03:02.15 | Legorol | who'd that be? |
| 03:02.15 | zeeg | if i was a woman, id clame sexist >< |
| 03:02.22 | zeeg | Legorol, cant really say the name |
| 03:02.32 | Legorol | you know the saying: |
| 03:02.38 | Legorol | keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer |
| 03:02.45 | Legorol | maybe you are a friend, and he was an enemy? |
| 03:02.51 | zeeg | oh ya, friend my ass |
| 03:03.03 | zeeg | i cant even get on the fansite list |
| 03:03.06 | zeeg | wownorge hates me |
| 03:03.08 | zeeg | worldofwar hates me |
| 03:03.10 | zeeg | net wants me to "die irl" |
| 03:03.11 | zeeg | lol |
| 03:03.20 | Legorol | i wonder why.. |
| 03:03.26 | zeeg | idk, i was nice to net before he said that |
| 03:03.31 | Cair | whereas I just tell you to go fuck yourself :p |
| 03:03.32 | zeeg | then again, i was nice to everyone before they were pricks |
| 03:03.42 | zeeg | well |
| 03:03.42 | Mondinga | funny how that becomes everyone~ |
| 03:03.44 | zeeg | for the most part |
| 03:04.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-151-62.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 03:04.01 | Cair | zeeg ... /sigh |
| 03:04.02 | zeeg | hrm |
| 03:04.05 | Iriel | Bah |
| 03:04.10 | Legorol | btw cair, that n00b you linked to on UI forum, did you read his sig? |
| 03:04.18 | Legorol | i'd have to answer... YES! |
| 03:04.25 | Cair | lol |
| 03:04.26 | Mondinga | very key quote |
| 03:05.18 | Legorol | this channel is a great invention for queuing :-) |
| 03:05.30 | Legorol | i can talk to myself ... |
| 03:05.33 | Cair | okay, zeeg, since I'm drinking and thus feeling generous, you want to know what your problem is, why folks don't like you? I'm offering to answer in all seriousness, but if you don't want to hear the gods honest truth then say so and I won't bother |
| 03:05.49 | Tain | How am I supposed to update the greatest AddOn yet created if people keep looting my herbs. :( |
| 03:06.00 | Cair | you aren't |
| 03:06.02 | Legorol | Tain, you can at least get on the server :p |
| 03:06.09 | zeeg | i know why people dont like me :) |
| 03:06.10 | Cair | you're supposed to keep me entertained |
| 03:06.14 | Tain | Oh I don't deal with those silly queueues |
| 03:06.16 | zeeg | I'm arogant |
| 03:06.21 | Legorol | i will do that Cair, let poor Tain work |
| 03:06.21 | zeeg | but its not like I dont have reason |
| 03:06.58 | Legorol | once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away |
| 03:07.04 | Legorol | ouch, that hurt! |
| 03:07.39 | Cair | ah well, was worth a shot ... you guys saw it, I tried to help |
| 03:07.51 | zeeg | i like being me |
| 03:07.59 | zeeg | hasnt ever really hurt me sooo |
| 03:08.00 | Tain | That's what you get, helping never got anyone anywhere. |
| 03:08.03 | ToastTheif | dah |
| 03:08.12 | ToastTheif | where's Industrial? =(\ |
| 03:08.18 | Tain | He went to bed, Toast |
| 03:10.13 | ToastTheif | ah damn |
| 03:10.18 | ToastTheif | what time is it where he lives |
| 03:10.22 | ToastTheif | it's only 10 here.. |
| 03:11.54 | Cair | later zeeg |
| 03:12.43 | zeeg | oh maybe not |
| 03:12.44 | zeeg | no answer |
| 03:12.56 | zeeg | guess you're out of luck ;) |
| 03:13.11 | Cair | damn! |
| 03:13.56 | Cair | btw, I trust you aren't taking it serious, right? |
| 03:14.28 | zeeg | what? |
| 03:14.51 | Cair | me telling you to go ... |
| 03:14.59 | zeeg | oh |
| 03:15.02 | zeeg | no if i was youd know |
| 03:15.04 | zeeg | :P |
| 03:15.17 | Cair | ;) |
| 03:15.36 | zeeg | actually im gonna go play my pirates game |
| 03:15.37 | zeeg | :P |
| 03:15.42 | zeeg | til the damn phone rings >< |
| 03:15.46 | Cair | pirate vs ninja! |
| 03:16.00 | Tain | Ninja Pirate! |
| 03:16.03 | Cair | okay, I have NO idea where the hell that came from |
| 03:16.15 | Tain | Ninja Pirate Robot Monkey! |
| 03:16.30 | Cair | magnet beats lobster! |
| 03:17.03 | Cair | or is it lobster beats magnet? |
| 03:17.06 | Cair | can't remember |
| 03:17.08 | Tain | Banana donkey leather glove. |
| 03:17.31 | Cair | peanut butter jelly time! |
| 03:17.35 | Tain | Did you know that Donkey Punch is a banned name in WoW? |
| 03:17.51 | Cair | copywrite, I'd imagine |
| 03:17.54 | Tain | Or I suppose Donkeypunch |
| 03:22.54 | Cair | wow, everyone ran away |
| 03:23.14 | Tain | They fear my Donkey Punch. |
| 03:24.59 | Iriel | I'm still here |
| 03:25.02 | Iriel | and I fear no donkey |
| 03:25.06 | ToastTheif | me2 |
| 03:28.19 | kergoth | http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=464 |
| 03:28.26 | kergoth | look at the poster in the bathroom |
| 03:28.27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:28.46 | Cair | lol |
| 03:28.54 | Cair | that's gross |
| 03:28.56 | kergoth | questionablecontent.net sells that poster |
| 03:28.58 | kergoth | lol |
| 03:29.25 | Parak | reminds me sorta of the writings on the stall website |
| 03:29.54 | Parak | (the text of which is nsfw) |
| 03:30.06 | Parak | (yet very funny) |
| 03:30.41 | Cair | drop a link |
| 03:30.58 | Cair | you've warned that it's nsfw |
| 03:31.48 | kergoth | i think my gf should get this shirt: http://www.questionablecontent.net/shirts/acshirt.png :) |
| 03:32.27 | Cair | cute |
| 03:32.40 | Parak | http://www.thewritingsonthestall.com/ <--again, no images, but most text is very nsfw |
| 03:36.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|PC (n=chatzill@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 03:37.06 | Cair | lol, I like this one |
| 03:37.15 | Cair | Sticks and stones may break my bones, |
| 03:37.15 | Cair | but whips and chains excite me, |
| 03:37.15 | Cair | So... throw me down, |
| 03:37.15 | Cair | and tie me up and show me that you like me |
| 03:37.35 | Parak | teehee |
| 03:37.50 | Cair | I've seen it before, but I still like it |
| 03:38.23 | kergoth | Written on tank next to handle: |
| 03:38.24 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:38.24 | kergoth | Written below it: |
| 03:38.24 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:38.41 | Cair | ROFL |
| 03:49.39 | Cair | I'm actually starting to understand wmn :p |
| 03:56.17 | Legorol | I see that Darkhands guy got annoyed it was too complicated to install CT :-) |
| 03:56.27 | Legorol | what was that guy venting at anyway? |
| 03:56.29 | Cair | yup, that's what I'm referring to |
| 03:56.46 | Cair | who knows |
| 03:57.00 | Cair | he can't figure out how to install |
| 03:57.09 | Cair | like, hello, it's not that fucking hard |
| 03:57.56 | Cair | if my mom can figure out how to do it, anyone can |
| 03:57.57 | Cair | she's almost 60, and forgetful ... she knows how to install mods |
| 04:00.56 | kergoth | http://bash.org/?580395 |
| 04:03.15 | Cair | OMG |
| 04:07.31 | kergoth | i love http://bash.org/?577451 |
| 04:07.35 | kergoth | just great |
| 04:07.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 04:07.59 | Guillotine | rawr |
| 04:07.59 | Cair | *laughs* |
| 04:08.03 | Cair | *purr* |
| 04:08.31 | Guillotine | what was the name of the guy that owns purl? i want to ask him if its ok with him if i try porting purl to WoW... |
| 04:08.42 | Cair | timriker |
| 04:08.55 | kergoth | its blootbot. |
| 04:08.57 | kergoth | ~ibot |
| 04:08.58 | purl | i guess ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 04:09.05 | Cair | and Blizz will be pissed |
| 04:09.05 | kergoth | ~blootbot |
| 04:09.07 | purl | it has been said that blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. Patches welcome, submit on SF or mailto:Tim@Rikers.org, or http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/,. I am a blootbot |
| 04:09.18 | Guillotine | why would blizz be pissed? |
| 04:09.23 | kremonte | woot, i finished my /trevor! |
| 04:09.27 | Guillotine | lol krem |
| 04:09.30 | Cair | put a bot in game? |
| 04:09.32 | kergoth | Cair: could be chat only. not a play bot, just one for a chat channel |
| 04:09.35 | Cair | yeah, they'll love that |
| 04:09.39 | Guillotine | its chat only |
| 04:09.40 | kergoth | which wouldnt be bad, i wouldnt think |
| 04:09.49 | kremonte | yeah, trevor dances (5 frames looping) and moves up and down as the song plays |
| 04:09.51 | ToastTheif | lol |
| 04:10.03 | Guillotine | i wouldn't think anything would be wrong with a chat bot that could, say, store info on raid times and info on places |
| 04:10.08 | Cair | meh, maybe they'd be fine with it |
| 04:10.28 | ToastTheif | omgzorz |
| 04:10.38 | Guillotine | ive always got the idea that the type of bot they didn't like was the ones that either made it possible to do something AFK or something that would make decisions for the player |
| 04:10.40 | kergoth | hahaha |
| 04:10.40 | kergoth | http://bash.org/?576262 |
| 04:10.52 | Cair | ROFL |
| 04:10.57 | Guillotine | LOL |
| 04:10.57 | ToastTheif | AoE3 > War3 |
| 04:11.19 | Iriel | 1Hm? |
| 04:11.21 | Iriel | Hm even |
| 04:11.51 | kremonte | bah, still dont get how to hook the chat frame... will my game go kaboom if i break it? |
| 04:12.00 | Iriel | The only problem with AoE3 is that it's a bit buggy |
| 04:12.05 | Iriel | kremonte : It depends what you do with it. |
| 04:12.15 | kergoth | haha |
| 04:12.17 | kremonte | i want to hide all input from a channel |
| 04:12.17 | Legorol | kremonte: the game won't go kaboom, or eat pizzas |
| 04:12.19 | Legorol | at worst it crashes |
| 04:12.26 | kremonte | it wont eat pizzas? :( |
| 04:12.27 | kergoth | Cair: check out this chick's reply to a lame comeon: http://bash.org/?576018 |
| 04:12.32 | MentalPower|PC | as blizzard says, if you break it you get to keep both pieces :) |
| 04:12.34 | Iriel | At worst it locks up solidly and you have to ctrl-alt-del it |
| 04:12.36 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 04:12.36 | Legorol | kremonte: why not untick the channel in the appropriate list in the tab for that chat pane? |
| 04:12.40 | ToastTheif | yea the server can only hold 4k atm |
| 04:12.40 | Iriel | Second worst is a client crash |
| 04:12.50 | Cair | hahahhahaa |
| 04:13.01 | kergoth | :D |
| 04:13.14 | Guillotine | kremonte: you need to upload that addon to WoWI! |
| 04:13.18 | kremonte | Legorol- it's for a mod |
| 04:13.18 | Iriel | So.. I have my stat ring template drawing a 0.2 degree circle segment now, yay |
| 04:13.21 | Cair | "what's your sign" ... "stop, do not enter" |
| 04:13.26 | kergoth | Iriel: nice! |
| 04:13.27 | kremonte | Guillotine - i need to hide chat in the channel first >< |
| 04:13.39 | ToastTheif | WoW, the addiction just killed my friend last week |
| 04:13.40 | Guillotine | why? doesnt it just play the trevor thing? |
| 04:13.43 | Tain | Ug I was just rubbing my eyes trying to clear out whatever was making things go fuzzy until I realized it was my monitor. :( |
| 04:13.46 | MentalPower|PC | Iriel: Very Nice\ |
| 04:13.49 | kremonte | uses a channel to turn it on and off |
| 04:13.50 | ToastTheif | killed himself, his comp crashed |
| 04:14.05 | kremonte | i could make it easier, but i want a thing where your friend could do it to ya when youre int hemiddle of MC |
| 04:14.06 | Guillotine | ooo. are you going to be able to like turn it on for the whole raid? |
| 04:14.08 | Cair | ToastTheif: you're kidding, I hope |
| 04:14.10 | Guillotine | lol |
| 04:14.25 | Cair | or I missed part of the conversation |
| 04:14.26 | kremonte | woot, mage in my guild just got ZHC on top of his TOEP |
| 04:14.28 | Cair | or something |
| 04:14.29 | Cair | right? |
| 04:14.31 | kremonte | he is so gonna 1 shot my ass |
| 04:15.20 | ToastTheif | all that stuff about AoE3 owning WoW and somone dying wasen't ne |
| 04:15.22 | ToastTheif | me* |
| 04:15.28 | ToastTheif | it was my friend |
| 04:15.57 | Cair | what I'm saying though is that you are kidding about him killing himself, right? |
| 04:16.07 | ToastTheif | he was kidding, yes |
| 04:16.13 | Cair | thank you |
| 04:16.13 | ToastTheif | I don't even know what he was talking about |
| 04:16.23 | ToastTheif | he had the computer |
| 04:17.16 | Cide | nigh everyone |
| 04:17.24 | Cair | night Cide :) |
| 04:17.27 | Cide | night* |
| 04:21.39 | kergoth | http://bash.org/?233331 |
| 04:23.10 | MentalPower|PC | lol |
| 04:24.28 | ToastTheif | I don't understand the linux one |
| 04:24.44 | kergoth | i suggest you learn more about linux |
| 04:24.52 | kergoth | and open source in general |
| 04:25.18 | ToastTheif | Im trying =/ |
| 04:25.19 | Cair | they're constantly playing with it, adding bits and pieces and rearranging things, trying to "improve" it |
| 04:25.41 | ToastTheif | Im installing Linux as you know, when I can |
| 04:25.48 | MentalPower | sounds like the WoW addons :) |
| 04:25.51 | ToastTheif | ah, ic cair |
| 04:26.12 | kergoth | the wow addon community still hasnt learned 90% of the lessons the open source community has already learned. though that seems to be improving somewhat |
| 04:32.21 | Legorol | such as? |
| 04:41.27 | Guillotine | read before you post |
| 04:41.33 | Guillotine | they never seem to do that |
| 04:44.01 | Iriel | Anyone run into some strange anchor problems after using SetScale on a frame |
| 04:44.02 | Iriel | ? |
| 04:44.05 | Iriel | In 1.9 |
| 04:44.52 | ToastTheif | not I... |
| 04:47.15 | Guillotine | not yet... |
| 04:47.33 | Legorol | Iriel, possibly |
| 04:47.39 | Legorol | you know about the scaling changes, i presume |
| 04:47.45 | Legorol | could that have an effect here? |
| 04:48.02 | Iriel | No, it appears that when you :SetScale on a frame, it forgets its anchors |
| 04:48.09 | Legorol | hmm |
| 04:48.16 | Legorol | haven't really fiddled with that |
| 04:48.23 | Legorol | and you are sure it's not just a scaling issue? |
| 04:48.29 | Legorol | what do you mean by "forget" |
| 04:49.12 | Guillotine | haha. http://bash.org/?244321 |
| 04:49.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Vizir (n=Vizir@CPE-70-92-246-76.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 04:49.20 | Iriel | The frame stays where it is, but no longer knows its location |
| 04:49.30 | Iriel | Attemts to set anchors relative to it have no effect |
| 04:49.37 | Iriel | Until you do a :SetPoint on it again |
| 04:49.37 | ToastTheif | http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/zoom.php?themes/contrib/olav_violetvalentine.jpg - I like that menu |
| 04:50.30 | Legorol | omg, that last bash is too funny |
| 04:50.44 | ToastTheif | oops |
| 04:50.50 | ToastTheif | wrong irc windowy thingy |
| 04:50.51 | zeeg | pretty ugly imo |
| 04:50.57 | zeeg | for starters |
| 04:50.58 | zeeg | its nix |
| 04:50.58 | zeeg | :| |
| 04:50.59 | Legorol | Iriel, no comment |
| 04:51.04 | Legorol | sounds buggish |
| 04:51.14 | ToastTheif | I like the way it's categorized |
| 04:51.26 | ToastTheif | browers, editors, etc.. |
| 04:51.57 | Guillotine | The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? |
| 04:52.43 | Legorol | because preserveation of species is, after all, more important than elimination of stupidity |
| 04:52.48 | Legorol | it's the ultimate calling |
| 04:53.07 | zeeg | selective breeding |
| 04:53.08 | zeeg | do your part! |
| 04:54.27 | Guillotine | LOL!!! http://bash.org/?111338 |
| 04:54.49 | kremonte | thats old! zomg |
| 04:54.54 | kremonte | but still hilarious |
| 04:56.03 | kremonte | He bent down and pulled his wang out of the troll's nose. It was covered in what looked like lumpy gray glue. |
| 04:56.17 | kremonte | Something silver-white, something enormous, erupted from the end of his wang |
| 04:56.19 | kremonte | oh god |
| 04:56.50 | zeeg | Cair, closing in on completeion of the app, had programmer completely remove the profile controls (since they're useless now), she's just gotta change a few forms (removing checkbox from addons for one) and fix data collection and I think its ready |
| 04:56.57 | zeeg | i gotta test the "update to latest beta version" part yet though |
| 04:57.02 | Cair | cool |
| 04:59.43 | zeeg | wheres Dolby at :| |
| 05:00.04 | Cair | it's only just coming on 11pm cst now, give him time to get home for pity's sake :p |
| 05:00.11 | Guillotine | lets play ping pong |
| 05:00.15 | Guillotine | | . |
| 05:00.27 | zeeg | O.o |
| 05:00.29 | kremonte | . | |
| 05:00.33 | zeeg | | . |
| 05:00.37 | Guillotine | | . |
| 05:00.39 | kremonte | ' | |
| 05:00.40 | Guillotine | woops |
| 05:00.41 | zeeg | lol |
| 05:00.45 | zeeg | | . |
| 05:00.46 | ToastTheif | hey Ker |
| 05:00.48 | zeeg | . | |
| 05:00.50 | Guillotine | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:00.50 | zeeg | i can play by myself |
| 05:00.52 | zeeg | i dont need you! |
| 05:00.54 | Guillotine | | . |
| 05:00.55 | zeeg | {. |
| 05:00.56 | Guillotine | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:00.56 | zeeg | }. |
| 05:00.58 | zeeg | err |
| 05:00.59 | ToastTheif | what's the difference between DEs and WMs? |
| 05:01.04 | kremonte | how would i get this.language in an addon? |
| 05:01.13 | kremonte | said its nil (it's in a function |
| 05:01.43 | zeeg | actually im just gonna go make the thread so i can go to bed |
| 05:01.52 | kremonte | help meeee T_T |
| 05:02.23 | Cair | k |
| 05:02.35 | Guillotine | <jeebus> the "bishop" came to our church today |
| 05:02.43 | Guillotine | <jeebus> he was a fucken impostor |
| 05:02.49 | Guillotine | <jeebus> never once moved diagonally |
| 05:02.54 | kremonte | lmao |
| 05:02.57 | Cair | *groan* |
| 05:07.02 | Guillotine | IRC is just multiplayer notepad |
| 05:07.23 | zeeg | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11654#post11654 |
| 05:08.18 | Guillotine | awww. why don't i have permission to access that page? |
| 05:08.23 | Cair | looks good zeeg, I'll make sure he looks at it |
| 05:08.43 | Cair | Guillotine: that's the private multi-site forum I set up for admins at the various sites |
| 05:08.49 | Guillotine | ahhh |
| 05:08.55 | Cair | so we can mock you mod authors without you knowing about it |
| 05:09.01 | Guillotine | i have a website |
| 05:09.08 | Guillotine | www.geocities.com/kjeldoranelitetheguild |
| 05:09.09 | kergoth | --> guest (~SportsCar@166.111.6.93) has joined #lgl |
| 05:09.10 | kergoth | * guest ´ó½Ð£º¾ÈÃü°¡£¡ ¾ÈÃü°¡£¡ |
| 05:09.10 | kergoth | <khalek> you seem to be a little mixed up |
| 05:09.10 | kergoth | <khalek> this is not #perl |
| 05:09.10 | Guillotine | does that count? |
| 05:09.27 | Guillotine | i dont get it |
| 05:09.32 | zeeg | dont worry Guillotine |
| 05:09.35 | zeeg | ill happily mock you to your face |
| 05:09.41 | Cair | the major mod hosting sites :p Curse, ui.wow, guru, wowi |
| 05:09.58 | kergoth | sorry, geek joke, cant get the one i just pasted unless you know perl |
| 05:10.14 | Guillotine | i know purl... does that count? |
| 05:10.34 | Cair | eq1, eq2i, gucomics, etc |
| 05:10.55 | zeeg | gucomics hosts mods? |
| 05:11.00 | Cair | no |
| 05:11.16 | Cair | they are one of the major sites that we allow to have access to that forum if they want it :p |
| 05:11.21 | Cair | woody is a friend of ours |
| 05:11.32 | zeeg | blizzplanet isnt included on those sites is it? |
| 05:11.37 | zeeg | specifically medievaldragon |
| 05:11.42 | Cair | did I list it? |
| 05:11.48 | Cair | ;) |
| 05:12.00 | zeeg | no :P |
| 05:12.02 | zeeg | just checking! |
| 05:12.04 | Cair | heh |
| 05:12.43 | Cair | except those I don't |
| 05:13.01 | zeeg | if you see ne |
| 05:13.03 | zeeg | point him to that threat |
| 05:13.05 | zeeg | *ned |
| 05:13.06 | zeeg | lkajsdfkl;asdjf |
| 05:13.09 | zeeg | net/thread |
| 05:13.10 | Cair | net? |
| 05:13.12 | Cair | lol |
| 05:13.17 | Cair | night zeeg |
| 05:13.37 | Cair | and I thought I was the one getting drunk :p |
| 05:14.32 | Guillotine | kremonte made the most awesome addon ever... |
| 05:14.35 | kremonte | yay, i'm a modder! i made something |
| 05:14.58 | Cair | so, get it posted :p |
| 05:15.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Deph (n=Depherio@67.189.88.161) |
| 05:15.09 | kremonte | slash command doesnt work yet |
| 05:15.14 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Deph (n=Depherio@67.189.88.161) |
| 05:15.14 | kremonte | Guillotine is "beta" testing it lol |
| 05:15.22 | Cair | ah |
| 05:15.28 | Guillotine | it is the most freaking awesome addon ever |
| 05:15.45 | Guillotine | Cide has to include it in the next version of CTRA |
| 05:15.51 | kremonte | lol |
| 05:15.53 | Guillotine | or Slouken needs to include it in the default UI |
| 05:15.57 | ToastTheif | what addon? |
| 05:16.04 | kremonte | i think maybe i'll sabotage it secretly |
| 05:16.06 | jts | what is it? |
| 05:16.10 | kremonte | "hey guildies new version of ctra out" |
| 05:16.17 | kremonte | <link to ctra + addon in a zip> |
| 05:16.19 | Cair | ah, purl, right |
| 05:16.45 | Cair | wasn't that what we were discussing? or is it something else? |
| 05:17.09 | Cair | meh, whatever |
| 05:20.00 | Guillotine | kremonte, can i tell them what the addon is? |
| 05:21.48 | Guillotine | | . |
| 05:21.51 | Guillotine | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:21.57 | Guillotine | | . |
| 05:21.58 | kremonte | sure |
| 05:21.59 | kremonte | . | |
| 05:22.08 | Guillotine | its magical trevor for WoW! |
| 05:22.13 | kremonte | hit it back to me! |
| 05:22.20 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.21 | Guillotine | you type /trevor <playername> and trevor appears and the song starts playing |
| 05:22.26 | kremonte | * | |
| 05:22.26 | Cair | . | |
| 05:22.27 | Guillotine | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.31 | kremonte | | . |
| 05:22.34 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.42 | Iriel | I thought someone had done that before in ctra? |
| 05:22.47 | krem`leftside | | . |
| 05:22.49 | Cair | . | |
| 05:22.52 | Guillotine | well he did it as a standalone |
| 05:22.55 | krem`leftside | |* |
| 05:22.55 | Legorol | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.58 | Cair | . | |
| 05:23.01 | krem`leftside | Legorol, I'M the left side |
| 05:23.02 | krem`leftside | | . |
| 05:23.05 | Cair | . | |
| 05:23.08 | krem`leftside | .| |
| 05:23.10 | krem`leftside | shit |
| 05:23.11 | krem`leftside | i missed |
| 05:23.14 | Cair | lol |
| 05:23.15 | Legorol | rofl |
| 05:23.51 | Guillotine | g2g guys |
| 05:23.52 | Guillotine | ttyl |
| 05:23.55 | krem`leftside | cya :) |
| 05:23.59 | Guillotine | upload the addon to WoWI krem!!! |
| 05:24.00 | Cair | later Guillotine |
| 05:24.11 | krem`leftside | <3 |
| 05:24.14 | krem`leftside | when i'm done! |
| 05:24.15 | Cair | awwww |
| 05:25.27 | kremonte | argh, this is driving me insane |
| 05:25.36 | kremonte | how the hell do you get the player's language in an addon |
| 05:25.39 | Cair | no drive necessary, merely a short putt |
| 05:25.41 | kremonte | this.language isn't working >< |
| 05:25.51 | kremonte | argh, this is putting me insane |
| 05:25.59 | Cair | lol |
| 05:26.03 | kremonte | :D |
| 05:26.32 | Iriel | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME.editBox.language |
| 05:26.33 | Iriel | I think |
| 05:27.40 | kremonte | yep, that worked, thanks |
| 05:29.01 | Cair | Iriel gives Dolby a run for the money on who is "The Man!" |
| 05:29.25 | kremonte | i don't know dolby, so i think my biased opinion would be that Iriel is, in fact, The Man |
| 05:29.41 | Cair | As I said, gives Dolby a run for the title |
| 05:29.46 | Cair | since I know both of them |
| 05:29.49 | kremonte | how do you just *know* DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME.editBox.language off the top of your head? |
| 05:29.53 | kremonte | that's shenanigans |
| 05:30.05 | Cair | oh noes! not more shenanigans! |
| 05:30.18 | kremonte | how does savedvariables work? i just put them in my toc and poof they are set once my addon is loaded? |
| 05:30.41 | Legorol | kremonte, because it's often used |
| 05:30.45 | Iriel | Yes |
| 05:30.49 | Legorol | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME pops up in so many places |
| 05:30.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 05:30.53 | Legorol | so does editBox |
| 05:31.00 | kremonte | welll....well nini! |
| 05:31.11 | Iriel | Every global variable you have mentioned in your .toc gets written out when you quit |
| 05:31.11 | Legorol | and yes, that's how savedvariables work |
| 05:31.14 | Iriel | and loaded back in when you log in |
| 05:31.28 | kremonte | so when you logout they save too? |
| 05:31.30 | kremonte | cool! :D |
| 05:31.41 | Legorol | they wouldn't be much use if they didn't save |
| 05:31.45 | Depherios | they save when you reloadui as well |
| 05:31.46 | Legorol | btw, the best thing to use is a table |
| 05:32.02 | Legorol | specify a single table as a saved variable, and stuff all your data in htere that you need saving |
| 05:32.06 | Legorol | such as configuration settings |
| 05:32.20 | kremonte | yeah, i did that with a mod i made a month ago... but hey i don't remember things well |
| 05:35.20 | ToastTheif | ffrom what I see, I vote KDE |
| 05:35.32 | ToastTheif | but ya never know til you try it I guess |
| 05:36.05 | ToastTheif | Konqueror sounds cool |
| 05:36.51 | kremonte | firefox > konqueror |
| 05:37.01 | ToastTheif | I would assume so, yes |
| 05:37.13 | ToastTheif | because of the community, flexibility, all that |
| 05:37.23 | cladhaire | i'm just not a fan of kde. |
| 05:37.28 | cladhaire | but i can't explain why =) |
| 05:37.29 | kremonte | gnome ftw |
| 05:37.50 | cladhaire | instalkling freebsd 6.0 with gnome as we speak :P |
| 05:37.55 | kremonte | :D |
| 05:38.05 | cladhaire | on my delicious new $379.00 laptop =) |
| 05:38.12 | kremonte | rofl |
| 05:38.21 | ToastTheif | I think I'll try Ubuntu or Fedora with KDE first |
| 05:38.37 | ToastTheif | then mess around and try some other distros |
| 05:39.00 | cladhaire | linux has always been too trendy for me.. i prefer the straight unix based systems |
| 05:39.20 | Tain | You know what they say, Linux is for people who hate Microsoft, BSD is for people who like Unix. ;) |
| 05:39.29 | Depherios | lol |
| 05:39.32 | cladhaire | Never heard that.. but that's completely true. |
| 05:39.33 | cladhaire | =) |
| 05:39.44 | cladhaire | not that i have any love for microsoft. |
| 05:39.52 | cladhaire | but i suppose i can be a unix lover, and hate ms as well =) |
| 05:39.57 | Tain | Of course they also say there's only two good things to ever come out of Berkely. LSD and BSD. |
| 05:40.21 | ToastTheif | heh |
| 05:41.51 | Cair | God, I haven't used any form of Unix since it was Zenix/Unix (for those of you old enough to realize how far back that is) |
| 05:42.01 | kergoth | hehe |
| 05:42.08 | kergoth | i worked tech support for digi international, aka digiboard |
| 05:42.15 | kergoth | i got calls from people with 8-10 year old openserver boxes |
| 05:42.18 | kergoth | and xenix, too |
| 05:42.19 | kergoth | fun stuff |
| 05:42.20 | cladhaire | teh farthest back i go is the educational end-of-life of VAX |
| 05:42.23 | Cair | We've been through this one kergoth ;) |
| 05:42.27 | kergoth | :) |
| 05:42.37 | Tain | I started out on the Internet on a VAX/VMS system. |
| 05:42.41 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 05:42.44 | cladhaire | gopher ftw |
| 05:42.46 | kergoth | vax is.. weird. |
| 05:42.55 | Tain | Way back in... damn I don't even know. |
| 05:45.27 | Tain | Damn I'm trying to figure out when I was first on the net. It was 91 I think. 91/92 |
| 05:45.51 | cladhaire | mine wasn't until.. 92 i believe |
| 05:46.12 | Tain | Soon after I ran a Waffle BBS and provide free Usenet. :) |
| 05:46.14 | Iriel | summer of 91 here |
| 05:46.15 | Cair | christ, I was teaching people how to use computers at that point :p |
| 05:46.41 | Iriel | But there was JANET before that (Joint Academic NETwork) |
| 05:46.46 | Cair | moving companies over from paper based accounting to computer based |
| 05:46.49 | Tain | Back when you had bang paths for email. |
| 05:47.43 | Tain | joe!stetson!smith!ibm.net and the like |
| 05:47.48 | Cair | god, if you said bang now, people would look at you like you lost your mind |
| 05:47.58 | Tain | Or like you were asking for a date. |
| 05:48.12 | Cair | yeah, that too |
| 05:48.18 | Tain | She bang! She bang! |
| 05:48.32 | cladhaire | hahaha |
| 05:51.01 | cladhaire | There is nothing on television. |
| 05:51.17 | Cair | you say this like it's something new, cladhaire |
| 05:51.22 | Tain | I'm frustrated by tooltips. |
| 05:52.04 | Tain | Actually that's not true. I'm annoyed at Hunter tracking tooltips. |
| 05:52.39 | Iriel | Whyso/Howso? |
| 05:53.07 | Tain | Because they don't give any information. |
| 05:53.17 | Tain | No, that's not true. |
| 05:53.43 | Tain | I'm annoyed because some tooltips give the name and mob type (beast, undead, etc.) and level. |
| 05:53.50 | Tain | And some only give the name. |
| 05:56.03 | Iriel | All of the TRACKING tooltips give just name |
| 05:57.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=karl@adsl-68-120-81-136.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 05:57.32 | Cair | wb AnduinLothar |
| 05:58.02 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 05:58.13 | Cair | *purr* |
| 05:58.27 | AnduinLothar | how's the kitty onight? |
| 05:58.48 | Cair | bored and working on getting more than a tad tipsy |
| 05:58.54 | AnduinLothar | keeping the boys in check? |
| 05:59.13 | Cair | they seem to be doing well enough on their own, damnit |
| 05:59.17 | Cair | no one to play with |
| 05:59.47 | AnduinLothar | do you always play with your food? |
| 05:59.56 | Cair | sometimes |
| 06:00.20 | AnduinLothar | perhaps you should let it win sometimes |
| 06:00.31 | Cair | I sometimes do that, too |
| 06:01.25 | Cair | just losing my touch I guess |
| 06:01.27 | Cair | ;) |
| 06:02.02 | AnduinLothar | long as you land on your feet |
| 06:02.12 | Cair | heh |
| 06:02.16 | kremonte | any idea why this wont work?: |
| 06:02.17 | kremonte | SlashCmdList["TREVORTRIGGER"] = function(trigger) if(not trigger) then return; end; trevTrigger = trigger; end |
| 06:02.17 | kremonte | SLASH_TREVORTRIGGER = "/trevortrigger"; |
| 06:02.22 | kremonte | oh...wait |
| 06:02.24 | AnduinLothar | 1 |
| 06:02.26 | kremonte | i answered my own question |
| 06:02.26 | kremonte | yea |
| 06:02.34 | kremonte | i need to look to the left more |
| 06:03.46 | Tain | I'm just annoyed that it appears the only way to get more info from the tooltips is to TargetByName() and I don't like the idea of changing someone's target on them, even if they're not in combat. |
| 06:04.23 | AnduinLothar | neither do I. Only good way to combat that is to use TargetLastTarget() |
| 06:04.32 | AnduinLothar | problem is then the user cant |
| 06:04.45 | AnduinLothar | but no one really complains |
| 06:05.50 | Tain | Yeah, I guess it can't hurt *that* much if they're not in combat. I think. |
| 06:06.11 | Tain | There's already another Tracker Assist AddOn that does just that. |
| 06:06.17 | Depherios | the only problems that arise are LAG |
| 06:06.26 | Depherios | if you get a low framerate you can notice the target changing lol |
| 06:07.10 | Depherios | or at least, I've had it occur, never managed to accidentally cast a spell on the wrong thing or anything |
| 06:08.40 | Tain | I just don't like the idea of it. But, I don't see any other choise. |
| 06:10.36 | Tain | Damn Hunters have to throw everything off. |
| 06:10.49 | kremonte | agreeed. damn hunters. |
| 06:10.55 | Iriel | Hey now |
| 06:11.00 | Cair | pardon me? |
| 06:11.01 | kremonte | :D |
| 06:11.04 | Iriel | Dont make me set my pet on you |
| 06:11.13 | kremonte | don't make me send MY pet on you ;) |
| 06:11.15 | Cair | don't make me set me on you :p |
| 06:11.21 | kremonte | nooo |
| 06:11.30 | Cair | damn right! |
| 06:11.31 | kremonte | wait aren't you like level 52 :P |
| 06:11.47 | kremonte | haven't been stalking you on official wow forums lately |
| 06:11.55 | Cair | 52, yup |
| 06:11.57 | Iriel | Who? Me? |
| 06:11.59 | Iriel | Oh, Cair |
| 06:12.06 | kremonte | what level are you Iriel? |
| 06:12.06 | Cair | your point? |
| 06:12.10 | AnduinLothar | can i pet you? |
| 06:12.13 | kremonte | i'll eat you! :p |
| 06:12.21 | kremonte | wah, AnduinLothar? |
| 06:12.22 | Iriel | Iriel(Silver Hand) is 60 |
| 06:12.22 | Cair | *cough* |
| 06:12.28 | kremonte | ./gasp |
| 06:12.50 | ToastTheif | hey Ker |
| 06:12.50 | kremonte | hunters own me, most of the time :( |
| 06:12.57 | ToastTheif | what's a good editor for Linux? |
| 06:12.58 | Iriel | My rogue is 43 now |
| 06:13.02 | Iriel | ToastTheif : Emacs! |
| 06:13.07 | kremonte | x.x warrior 32 |
| 06:13.25 | Codayus | Emacs! |
| 06:13.33 | Codayus | Also a good editor for Windows. |
| 06:13.43 | ToastTheif | right |
| 06:13.45 | Codayus | Runs really nicely, actually. |
| 06:14.03 | ToastTheif | I've got most of my Linux things sorted out now |
| 06:14.12 | ToastTheif | all the programs I need, and what not |
| 06:14.12 | cladhaire | I'm fighting with my network card |
| 06:14.20 | ToastTheif | I think I'll use GAIM for IMing |
| 06:14.24 | cladhaire | well, my wireless card specifically |
| 06:14.26 | cladhaire | download TnT. |
| 06:14.30 | cladhaire | use AiM in emacs =) |
| 06:14.33 | AnduinLothar | clads back |
| 06:14.43 | cladhaire | best software i've ever written =) |
| 06:15.08 | cladhaire | yeah i'm going back and forth between my two laptops and my Druid =) |
| 06:15.10 | cladhaire | almost 38 |
| 06:15.38 | AnduinLothar | so i take it u haven't looked any more... |
| 06:16.02 | Cair | god I wish I lived in the US, would have loved to have a shot at one of those laptops today |
| 06:16.10 | Cair | since I don't have one and need one desperately |
| 06:16.13 | Tain | There's still laptops to go around. |
| 06:16.18 | zeeg | addicted to ddr |
| 06:16.27 | Cair | yeah, and I'm not in the US, so your point? |
| 06:16.30 | kremonte | at 1am zeeg? |
| 06:16.33 | cladhaire | AnduinLothar: No I haven't.. I was in line at best buy for 8 hours yesterday.. and I've spent most of the day getting my officer straightened around |
| 06:16.43 | AnduinLothar | 360? |
| 06:16.46 | Tain | My point is that you're missing out on a nice laptop. :) |
| 06:16.55 | Cair | yeah, I know =/ |
| 06:17.06 | Tain | My brother waited 16 hours, in the rain, to get a 360. |
| 06:17.07 | cladhaire | Cair: OMG>. i would have bought you one, and delivered it to you.. |
| 06:17.11 | cladhaire | =( |
| 06:17.14 | Cair | it's okay |
| 06:17.34 | Depherios | ...and now they're being recalled... |
| 06:17.44 | Cair | I just am going to have to get one if I"m going to be doing more travelling to cons and stuff for the sites |
| 06:17.58 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 06:18.00 | Cair | being completely out of touch with the sites for 5 days is rough |
| 06:18.13 | Tain | I let my ex keep my laptop since I had a newer one from work. |
| 06:18.14 | AnduinLothar | what laptop is in refrence here? |
| 06:18.16 | Cair | Depherios: recalled? |
| 06:18.24 | Tain | Not thinking that I'd have to give it back if I got another job. |
| 06:18.37 | zeeg | 12:20am actually! |
| 06:19.15 | Cair | I thought the whole ddr fad was over? |
| 06:19.23 | AnduinLothar | it keeps coming back |
| 06:19.30 | Cair | zeeg, did you still want to talk to Dolby? |
| 06:19.33 | Depherios | well, not a total recall, but I guess a lot of the 360's are having problems with over heating and powering down randomly |
| 06:19.34 | Tain | zeeg don't you have more unreleased content to put up? You haven't quite gotten banned from EVERY site yet. |
| 06:19.52 | Cair | tain! not nice |
| 06:20.00 | Depherios | I haven't looked it up yet, they were talking about it at work (customers, co-workers) -- I work at a GameStop |
| 06:20.07 | zeeg | .. |
| 06:20.13 | zeeg | Cair, idc |
| 06:20.16 | zeeg | if he has questions |
| 06:20.18 | zeeg | Tain, if i did i would |
| 06:20.22 | Cair | okay |
| 06:20.24 | zeeg | but as I've gotten 2 dmca's in the last 2 months |
| 06:20.25 | zeeg | i think not |
| 06:20.30 | zeeg | i had full maps for ahn'qiraj two weeks ago though |
| 06:20.54 | Tain | YOU ARE TOO 'L33T FOR WORDS! |
| 06:21.01 | zeeg | Tain, you're too annoying for words |
| 06:21.18 | Cair | Tain: dial it back a couple notches |
| 06:21.22 | Tain | Perhaps, but at least I can still post my words. :D |
| 06:21.22 | AnduinLothar | you two match perfectly |
| 06:21.26 | zeeg | Tain, as can I |
| 06:21.49 | Cair | okay you two, right now, that's *enough* |
| 06:22.15 | Cair | take it private, no one in the channel wants to listen to it |
| 06:22.25 | zeeg | i dont want to listen to it in private either |
| 06:24.34 | ToastTheif | we have a DDR club at my school |
| 06:24.35 | Cair | so yeah, anyway |
| 06:24.48 | Tain | New version of TrackAlert going up now! |
| 06:25.02 | zeeg | ToastTheif, seriously? |
| 06:25.17 | ToastTheif | Mhmm |
| 06:25.35 | kremonte | can i join? :D |
| 06:25.44 | kremonte | i AAAed max 300 on maniac |
| 06:26.26 | zeeg | maniac? |
| 06:26.30 | Cair | so cladhaire, you still looking at coming up this way soon-ish? |
| 06:26.30 | zeeg | is that the same as challenge? |
| 06:26.39 | Tain | He's a maniac, maniac on the floor. |
| 06:26.41 | kremonte | sorta |
| 06:26.44 | Tain | And he's dancing like he never dance before. |
| 06:26.47 | zeeg | i havent gotten an AAA on anything, i'm struggling to beat the hard levels |
| 06:27.00 | zeeg | kremonte, mine only lists beginner->challenge for difficulty |
| 06:27.07 | kremonte | oh yea |
| 06:27.12 | kremonte | maniac is same as heavy |
| 06:27.17 | zeeg | oh |
| 06:27.20 | zeeg | im on the heavy levels right now |
| 06:27.23 | kremonte | and challenge is oni i think |
| 06:27.36 | zeeg | beaten like 15 and im stuck and cant seem to win now |
| 06:27.45 | zeeg | i think im getting a blister on my foot |
| 06:28.15 | ToastTheif | roar |
| 06:28.18 | kremonte | do you play barefoot? =o |
| 06:29.08 | kremonte | hmm |
| 06:29.15 | kremonte | i dont know if i should release this |
| 06:29.54 | zeeg | socks |
| 06:30.02 | zeeg | wooden floor tho |
| 06:30.16 | kremonte | ah |
| 06:30.18 | kremonte | metal pad + sneakers FTW |
| 06:30.41 | zeeg | i might buy one |
| 06:30.43 | zeeg | how much do they run? |
| 06:31.35 | zeeg | holy shit |
| 06:31.35 | zeeg | $200 |
| 06:31.36 | zeeg | http://www.redoctane.com/redoctanemetalpad.html |
| 06:32.46 | kremonte | thats what i have |
| 06:33.08 | zeeg | ima buy that |
| 06:33.11 | zeeg | it work good? |
| 06:33.46 | AnduinLothar | 'does it work well' corrected the grammer nazi |
| 06:34.22 | zeeg | http://www.cobaltflux.com/main.html |
| 06:34.26 | zeeg | maybe ill get that one, my buddy says its better |
| 06:34.40 | zeeg | he had a redoctane and it died on him |
| 06:40.44 | kremonte | redoctane has a "reputation" for dying, but cobalt flux isnt good IMO |
| 06:41.12 | kremonte | really unresponsive |
| 06:42.41 | zeeg | hrm |
| 06:42.44 | zeeg | o well |
| 07:10.37 | ToastTheif | welllll |
| 07:10.41 | ToastTheif | Im tired |
| 07:13.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=karl@adsl-68-120-228-104.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 07:31.42 | Iriel | Oooh, Floating Wreckage |
| 07:34.48 | Iriel | Not entirely productive fishing tho |
| 07:34.51 | Codayus | Hmm. Press the button, WoW vanishes. |
| 07:34.56 | Codayus | I wonder how the hell I causes that. |
| 07:35.18 | Codayus | Vanishes as in - instant crash to desktop. No error message or anything... |
| 07:36.20 | kremonte | that happens to me all the time in bwl |
| 07:38.52 | Codayus | Dude, that would suck. |
| 07:39.20 | kremonte | i DCed when razorgore was at 2% on my guilds first razorgore kill |
| 07:39.45 | kremonte | 400 queue |
| 07:41.21 | Codayus | ...bogus! |
| 07:41.29 | kremonte | bahahaha. i just sent my trevor mod to my friend and he woke up everyone in his house by laughing so hard |
| 07:41.30 | Codayus | :-) |
| 07:45.24 | kergoth | kremonte: url? :) |
| 07:45.36 | kremonte | www.dan-rouse.com/trevor.zip |
| 07:46.03 | kremonte | then you can do: /trevor to toggle trevor dancing/music playing for you |
| 07:46.17 | kremonte | or /trevor <name> to toggle it for someone with the mod installed |
| 07:46.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge a_thing (n=notroot@c-24-13-223-191.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 07:46.38 | kremonte | i gotta stealth hijack it into CTRA and do it in MC... *cough* |
| 07:46.49 | *** part/#wowi-lounge a_thing (n=notroot@c-24-13-223-191.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 07:51.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (n=F@cpe-72-225-160-94.si.res.rr.com) |
| 08:05.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlKFI (n=karl@adsl-67-121-107-46.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 08:06.59 | KarlKFI | all the UnitFrames I can find that actually replace the orig art just look amature too me... all photoshop on bars and flat elements, nothing 3d rendered or crafted... |
| 08:07.19 | KarlKFI | I want some original artwork |
| 08:07.44 | Depherios | make it? |
| 08:07.52 | Cair | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4296 |
| 08:07.52 | Depherios | I did |
| 08:07.55 | Depherios | made my own |
| 08:08.03 | Depherios | oh.. ONLY the ART.... |
| 08:08.59 | KarlKFI | ya, i've seen that undead. it's ok... still just variations on a theme and not truely original |
| 08:09.30 | KarlKFI | granted he has art talent |
| 08:09.42 | Cair | and as he said himself, that was a rush job |
| 08:09.54 | KarlKFI | ya, lots of cut ant paste |
| 08:10.10 | Cair | have you seen his other work? |
| 08:10.20 | Cair | www.tkingart.com |
| 08:10.21 | KarlKFI | I want to see some art that's either handdrawn and then digitized or 3d rendered |
| 08:10.40 | kremonte | 3d rendered in a case like this is more often than not a bad thing :S |
| 08:10.44 | Cair | oh, that was all hand done, trust me |
| 08:10.58 | KarlKFI | something done my an artist and not just a graphic designer |
| 08:11.12 | Cair | as I said, have you seen his other work |
| 08:11.14 | Cair | go look |
| 08:11.21 | KarlKFI | im looking |
| 08:12.01 | Cair | he *apologizes* for the undead being such a poor example |
| 08:12.06 | KarlKFI | he does good work, i'm not denying that |
| 08:12.12 | Cair | but he was on a deadline to have it out by halloween |
| 08:12.16 | KarlKFI | right |
| 08:12.19 | Cair | it'll be fixed up, I've no doubt |
| 08:12.30 | KarlKFI | meh, i'm not hot on the undead myself |
| 08:12.41 | KarlKFI | too diablo2 |
| 08:12.42 | Cair | the others that he's working on aren't under the same time constraints |
| 08:13.49 | KarlKFI | ok, u see his Wizard Ice and Fire ani's near the bottom? |
| 08:14.01 | KarlKFI | it's be cool to have a gui on that theme |
| 08:14.11 | Depherios | the only thing he's done I really like, is steamworks... |
| 08:14.14 | KarlKFI | magic and crystal |
| 08:14.37 | Depherios | but I wouldn't use it... too...... obtrusive |
| 08:15.38 | KarlKFI | i think it's be cool to crystal unit frames with fire or ice highlights that animated depending on certain triggers |
| 08:16.11 | KarlKFI | like maybe a burning back ground that engulfed the unit frame when casting |
| 08:16.19 | Depherios | eh, every time I add graphics to my UI, I end up taking them out |
| 08:16.24 | Depherios | well no |
| 08:16.31 | Depherios | the D2 health and mana orbs I've kept |
| 08:16.34 | Depherios | lol |
| 08:16.50 | Depherios | because they REALLY help me tell if I'm dying/oom |
| 08:16.54 | KarlKFI | or like animated hp/mp bars that sparkle or burn |
| 08:17.17 | KarlKFI | something truely awe inspiring |
| 08:17.34 | KarlKFI | and not just all this variables on bars and portraits |
| 08:17.41 | KarlKFI | variations* |
| 08:18.31 | Cair | if I could figure out the coding, I'd be working on stuff like that myself Karl |
| 08:18.35 | KarlKFI | but i dont have that kind of art skill |
| 08:18.48 | Cair | I just ... can't get it through my thick skull, and it makes me insane |
| 08:18.54 | KarlKFI | i could do the coding if someone would do the art |
| 08:19.01 | KarlKFI | that's what i did with ChatBar |
| 08:19.17 | Depherios | lol, yeah, I can do artsy fartsy crap |
| 08:19.19 | Cair | because Tom and I have worked together in the past, and it's heartbreaking for me that I can't help him out now |
| 08:19.38 | Cair | and frustrating, that I can't do my own, either |
| 08:19.55 | Cair | but oh well =/ |
| 08:19.56 | KarlKFI | ya, well basicly what he did with the undead was just replace textures |
| 08:20.46 | KarlKFI | i want to replace frames. I figure either A) just add on or B) replace the _whole_ thing with new concept and not just art and overlays |
| 08:21.18 | Cair | we were doing some pretty frigging neat things back in eq, like the animated steamworks and stuff |
| 08:21.52 | Depherios | anybody know why battlegrounds is doing that Message! line? |
| 08:21.55 | Cair | with the ability to change *code* in WoW ... it could be phenomenal |
| 08:21.55 | KarlKFI | u know what would be really cool for a casting bar would be a flame spiral that wraps around the unit frame like a sideways barber poll |
| 08:23.13 | KarlKFI | or like a reverse arcanebar that engulfs the portrait when it flashes |
| 08:23.49 | Cair | good ideas |
| 08:23.50 | KarlKFI | something that actually looks magical and not just liek a bar keeping time.. |
| 08:23.55 | Cair | post 'em: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64 |
| 08:24.07 | Cair | if anyone can do them, it'd be Tom |
| 08:24.37 | KarlKFI | well that 2nd one might be possible. that first one i have no idea how to code it... |
| 08:24.51 | Cair | my dragon back in EQ changed colours depending on the target con, its eyes flashed when in combat, etc, etc |
| 08:24.58 | KarlKFI | maybe 2 animations that occlude bellow and above the frame |
| 08:25.36 | Cair | btw, if you don't post the suggestions, I will :p |
| 08:25.43 | KarlKFI | go ahead |
| 08:25.43 | Depherios | lol |
| 08:25.49 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:26.00 | Depherios | I wanted to do a PLAIN radial casting bar, but that's FAR beyond my coding abilities ATM |
| 08:26.01 | Cair | Iriel lives! |
| 08:26.03 | KarlKFI | that's descriptive iriel |
| 08:27.52 | KarlKFI | hard as hell to test anythign at 2fps on this compy.. |
| 08:30.06 | Iriel | heh, sorry |
| 08:36.17 | Cair | so what *was* that, Iriel? |
| 08:37.11 | Cair | Karl, hope you realize I was serious about posting it ... http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2499 |
| 08:37.26 | Iriel | Sorry, old habits die hard.. <space><enter> stops me from idling off a number of programs |
| 08:37.36 | KarlKFI | long as u creditted me cair |
| 08:37.51 | Cair | copy paste from this window :p |
| 08:38.01 | KarlKFI | thats fine then |
| 08:38.11 | Cair | Iriel: ahhh |
| 08:40.55 | Iriel | It's funny you're talking about unit frame customizations |
| 08:41.00 | Iriel | I'm trying something odd with stat rings |
| 08:41.26 | Depherios | please tell me you're running them around the portrait XD |
| 08:41.29 | Depherios | lol |
| 08:42.18 | Iriel | Not at present but that'd be fairly easy |
| 08:42.30 | Depherios | First thing I did after getting stat rings, was raise they're opacity and drop them around my minimap |
| 08:42.41 | Depherios | yeah, I'd do it, if not for the fact that I like the numbers showing constantly |
| 08:43.26 | KarlKFI | ya so iriel, while I was polishing the global return args function i cam up with another wrapper function to make the SeaHooks returns cleaner. instead of returning/passing 20 args I can pass them to a table and then just unpack them, so that it doesn't pass/return all the nils |
| 08:44.16 | KarlKFI | and of course it'd be the same tabel, never destroyed |
| 08:46.43 | Iriel | How does that handle cases where a sea hook calls another function that is sea hooked? |
| 08:47.46 | KarlKFI | oh, well this is sepperate. but in the case of the return args it just means you have to extract them before you call any other functions. Ex: local arg1, arg2 = Sea.util.getReturnArgs(); |
| 08:48.26 | KarlKFI | it also means if you dont want them you dont need to make namespace for them |
| 08:48.49 | Iriel | So what if I've hooked function XYZ, and so has someone else |
| 08:49.07 | Iriel | Both of ours run 'after' the original function |
| 08:49.21 | Iriel | but theirs calls something else which has a sea hook |
| 08:49.40 | Iriel | what happens to my return values? |
| 08:49.48 | Iriel | i.e. the ones from the original I want to see |
| 08:49.53 | KarlKFI | the variables are set individually for each hook. it's inside, rather than outside the for loop |
| 08:50.16 | Iriel | hm, ok.. |
| 08:50.41 | KarlKFI | so the local variables store the current return args for the next hook, even if the globals are changed |
| 08:50.42 | Iriel | so it's "cooperatively safe", so to speak |
| 08:51.26 | KarlKFI | right. It's read only and then replaced/overwritten if another hook is called |
| 08:52.05 | KarlKFI | so changing the globals at any time does nothing unless u hook the hook function. in which case you would be changing them deliberately anyway |
| 08:54.18 | KarlKFI | i assume if i assign a global empty table to a local variable and then fill the local table A) the global table remains unchanged and B) no GC is incurred |
| 08:55.05 | Iriel | A) no, B) yes |
| 08:55.22 | KarlKFI | mmm, well let's just test then, shall we |
| 08:55.52 | Iriel | if yo uhave a global table X, assign it to a local Y, and do Y.hello="Bonjour" |
| 08:55.57 | Iriel | then X.hello will == "Bonjour" |
| 08:56.29 | KarlKFI | right. that's what i used to think too. but i don't believe myself sometimes so i'll just prove it to myself and feel better |
| 09:04.53 | KarlKFI | ya, i'm not seeing that behavior |
| 09:06.11 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:06.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 09:06.16 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:06.38 | KarlKFI | if so then a is in tableOne |
| 09:06.39 | MoonWolf | Good morning |
| 09:07.07 | KarlKFI | gar... now it works.. |
| 09:07.18 | KarlKFI | why didn't it work in the other test.. |
| 09:07.32 | MoonWolf | Goblins did it. |
| 09:08.26 | Cair | hey MoonWolf :) |
| 09:09.16 | MoonWolf | This weekend I'm updating slash, according to my calculations this will have a total of 15 (give or take) extra downloads. Will WoWI be able to take that :P |
| 09:09.55 | Cair | gah, I don't know, I think you'll be straining the capacity of our servers to their utmost |
| 09:10.29 | Cair | I'll talk to Dolby, get him to set the site to low-bandwidth settings in an attempt to keep it running |
| 09:10.37 | Cair | ;) |
| 09:10.55 | MoonWolf | Okay, thanks. |
| 09:10.56 | MoonWolf | :P |
| 09:11.03 | Cair | Glad to be of service! |
| 09:11.06 | KarlKFI | there's seems to be some conflict with if u used table.insert or table[#]= iriel |
| 09:11.11 | Cair | *laughs* |
| 09:14.09 | Iriel | The only 'conflict' is if you dont properly manage your table size |
| 09:15.18 | KarlKFI | mmm, ok, maybe fir'es playing tricks with my mind by caching stuff.. |
| 09:16.15 | KarlKFI | heh... i cant seem to change the value of this table.. |
| 09:16.24 | KarlKFI | it's liek i broke it |
| 09:17.09 | Iriel | Try installing DevTools and using /dump |
| 09:17.12 | Iriel | Unless it's a very big table |
| 09:17.45 | KarlKFI | i doubt that's the problem, AddMessage was returning the same thing |
| 09:18.04 | KarlKFI | i'm reloading to see if i can repro |
| 09:19.40 | KarlKFI | ya... i just tried to change a global table and it didn't change :/ |
| 09:20.58 | Iriel | Then you're doing something else odd |
| 09:21.17 | KarlKFI | must be.. |
| 09:21.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Flonne[Azgalor] (n=casidy@ip76.los-rios-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 09:21.25 | KarlKFI | worked that time... how odd |
| 09:21.27 | Iriel | Any of you lot on the test server right now? |
| 09:21.39 | Iriel | The PVE one, that is |
| 09:22.18 | KarlKFI | heh... nope |
| 09:22.25 | KarlKFI | ok this is whack |
| 09:22.29 | Depherios | I can hop on, if nobody else is.. not doing anything but reading up on stuff... |
| 09:22.37 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:22.51 | KarlKFI | prints "Eclispe" (orig value) then "a" |
| 09:23.06 | KarlKFI | oh wait.. |
| 09:23.08 | KarlKFI | nm |
| 09:23.12 | KarlKFI | OnUpdate hook |
| 09:23.17 | KarlKFI | nvm |
| 09:23.33 | KarlKFI | *smacks head* |
| 09:23.52 | Flonne[Azgalor] | *smacks KarlKFI's head* |
| 09:24.11 | KarlKFI | ok.. so unpack stops at the first nil argument? |
| 09:24.22 | KarlKFI | LAME |
| 09:24.36 | Depherios | replace the nils in the table? |
| 09:24.54 | Depherios | before they're put in? |
| 09:25.01 | KarlKFI | nah, defeats the purpose |
| 09:25.08 | Depherios | ahh |
| 09:25.27 | Iriel | unpack will go to table.getn |
| 09:25.30 | Iriel | if it's set |
| 09:25.42 | Iriel | Well,, it goes there anyway, btu the standard definition stops at the first nil |
| 09:25.47 | KarlKFI | and if it's not? |
| 09:25.58 | Iriel | first nil if it's not |
| 09:26.02 | KarlKFI | blah |
| 09:26.06 | Iriel | why blah? |
| 09:26.11 | Iriel | You know how many results you have |
| 09:26.20 | KarlKFI | nope |
| 09:26.47 | Iriel | You can COUNT them 8-) |
| 09:27.05 | KarlKFI | right, but that defetes the purpose of a one line fix :P |
| 09:27.22 | Iriel | you can count them in one line |
| 09:27.30 | Iriel | if you know the MOST you could have |
| 09:27.36 | KarlKFI | 20 |
| 09:29.19 | Iriel | local n=0;for i=1,20 if tableName[i] then n=i; end end |
| 09:29.29 | Iriel | followed by table.setn(tableName,n) |
| 09:29.34 | KarlKFI | right |
| 09:34.28 | KarlKFI | ok, now it works. and yes. i was going crazy with the local no changing the global because i was using a table currently being used for getValue in an OnUpdate hook :/ |
| 09:34.40 | KarlKFI | oops |
| 09:34.55 | KarlKFI | yay for non sterile testing environs |
| 09:35.12 | KarlKFI | couldn't do it in lua terminal on this compy :/ |
| 09:37.14 | KarlKFI | thx for helping me through my arogant stupidity iriel |
| 09:38.45 | KarlKFI | how's this look: http://wow.pastebin.com/438526 |
| 09:40.28 | Iriel | ugly but it should work 8-) |
| 09:40.29 | KarlKFI | i dunno if it's really worth all that... |
| 09:41.04 | Flonne[Azgalor] | ok its 5asdfa |
| 09:41.08 | Flonne[Azgalor] | wtf? |
| 09:41.43 | KarlKFI | just to get "a","b","c", nil, "e" rather than a","b","c", nil, "e" nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil, nil |
| 09:41.51 | KarlKFI | :) |
| 09:47.33 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/sframes.jpg |
| 09:47.38 | Iriel | what do you think? |
| 09:47.50 | Cair | nifty! |
| 09:48.04 | KarlKFI | very... round |
| 09:48.42 | Iriel | yes, they are definitely round |
| 09:49.08 | Iriel | You'd never actually see THAT screen |
| 09:49.21 | Iriel | since I have them fade to invisibility when the unit is at full health and mana |
| 09:49.41 | Iriel | (I still need to code for rage) |
| 09:49.46 | KarlKFI | then how do u click on them? |
| 09:50.07 | Iriel | you dont |
| 09:50.15 | Depherios | it looks... like a teddy bear footprint |
| 09:50.26 | Iriel | the idea is so you know how your party is doing wihtout moving your eyes from the battle too much |
| 09:50.33 | Depherios | or a stuffed gorilla footprint or something |
| 09:51.07 | Iriel | It doesn't have party pets at present, I do need to fix that |
| 09:51.11 | Depherios | could you cut the party up into segments each a small part of the circle? and space them around the circle? |
| 09:51.12 | KarlKFI | so u use them _with_ the unit frames of your choice, then? |
| 09:51.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|DiscoDo (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 09:51.28 | Iriel | this particular idea, yes |
| 09:51.46 | Depherios | I need to run stat rings again, that was helpful... but with SCT, it was just too much |
| 09:52.14 | Iriel | I also have the target health in the middle of the player ring at the moment |
| 09:52.18 | Iriel | so you can tell who is going to die first |
| 09:52.27 | Depherios | on the party memebers too? |
| 09:52.28 | Iriel | I'm not sure how I feel abotu that yet |
| 09:52.33 | Iriel | not presently |
| 09:52.35 | Iriel | but it's possible |
| 09:52.42 | Iriel | A bit more overhead involved in that mind you |
| 09:52.56 | Depherios | I love being able to see the ToT health for my party members.. |
| 09:53.04 | Depherios | well... actually my pet, I care about more |
| 09:54.38 | Depherios | anybody thought about trying to do something with the tips Blizz has displaying on the load screen? -- oh wait.. duh, UI hasn't loaded yet, can't exactly do much |
| 09:54.48 | Iriel | So, since I run widescreen I've been thinking about sliding the pary members down to the left |
| 09:54.56 | Iriel | and pet more to the right |
| 09:55.04 | Iriel | Depherios : I looked for them for a bit in GlueXML and couldn't find them |
| 09:55.10 | Iriel | Depherios : I didn't look all that hard tho |
| 09:55.20 | Depherios | yeah, I glanced around, didn't try hard either |
| 09:57.58 | Iriel | Well, i;m off to bed |
| 09:58.04 | Depherios | G'night |
| 09:58.16 | Depherios | I thought it was kinda sad though, that the first tip I saw |
| 09:58.17 | Iriel | I've uploaded the current dev statrings if you get bored |
| 09:58.21 | Depherios | was a question I couldn't get answered |
| 09:58.28 | Cair | night Iriel |
| 09:58.30 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/ |
| 09:58.33 | Depherios | ooooooh |
| 09:58.43 | Depherios | How to stop casting a spell when you can't move |
| 09:58.54 | Depherios | without needing a macro button |
| 09:58.58 | Iriel | I can't promiseit'll fit your screen |
| 09:59.10 | Depherios | lol, I run a TRULY bizzare screen, so I'd have to move it anyway |
| 09:59.21 | Depherios | i have my world frame bumped up big gap at the bottom |
| 09:59.31 | Iriel | There's a single master cluster frame |
| 09:59.37 | Depherios | oooh |
| 09:59.41 | Iriel | so you can relocate it easily if you're not XML averse |
| 09:59.50 | Depherios | or just lazy! |
| 10:03.34 | KarlKFI | i keep getting the feeling avoiding gc is killing way too much processing time.. |
| 10:18.56 | Cair | sleep time for me |
| 10:19.35 | KarlKFI | ya, sounds liek about that time |
| 10:19.41 | KarlKFI | night all |
| 10:19.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
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| 16:32.23 | Beladona | alo |
| 16:33.05 | elema | bud |
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| 17:02.23 | kergoth | ~mornings |
| 17:02.24 | purl | Mornings MUST be destroyed! (see also http://www.destroymornings.com/) |
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| 18:03.26 | kremonte | ~mornings |
| 18:03.27 | purl | Mornings MUST be destroyed! (see also http://www.destroymornings.com/) |
| 18:03.34 | kremonte | true that |
| 18:09.45 | kergoth | farming perfect deviate scales is certainly boring and time consuming |
| 18:11.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-151-62.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:12.28 | kremonte | where do you farm perfect defiate scales? |
| 18:12.40 | Vizir | wailing caverns |
| 18:12.46 | kremonte | oh. |
| 18:12.52 | kremonte | i don't go there. that place is tainted |
| 18:13.23 | Vizir | quick wow lua question |
| 18:13.48 | Vizir | is there a way to find out if a target uses mana or not |
| 18:14.01 | krka | yes |
| 18:14.17 | krka | check the wowwiki |
| 18:14.34 | Vizir | thanks |
| 18:15.27 | krka | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitPowerType |
| 18:16.22 | Vizir | awesome |
| 18:31.39 | kremonte | wee bwl time, as i set up my UI |
| 19:01.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge age (n=nothx@pool-138-88-13-177.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:01.57 | age | can you use player locations in your UI as an anchor point? |
| 19:02.29 | kremonte | as in your position on the screen? no |
| 19:02.32 | kremonte | just make it middle |
| 19:02.34 | kremonte | (center) |
| 19:03.03 | age | not my position on the screen, the position on the screen of targets |
| 19:03.14 | age | similar to nameplates |
| 19:03.38 | kremonte | no |
| 19:03.46 | kremonte | thats the 3d environment |
| 19:07.13 | krka | no access to 3d allowed whatsoever |
| 19:07.56 | krka | damn it's nice when you notice major improvements in wine |
| 19:08.04 | krka | i managed to get starcraft running quite nicely |
| 19:08.22 | age | can you determine x/y coordinates of players to simulate it then? |
| 19:08.45 | kremonte | not unless they are in your raid group |
| 19:08.58 | kremonte | but then you still can't get the camera pitch direction and angle |
| 19:09.03 | kremonte | so you really couldnt simulate it either way |
| 19:11.12 | age | i'd like to work on an add-on that would extend nameplates |
| 19:12.15 | kremonte | can't |
| 19:12.24 | age | :( |
| 19:12.29 | kremonte | you can _not_ interact with the 3d environment |
| 19:13.59 | ToastTheif | plates* |
| 19:14.04 | ToastTheif | anyway, Im out |
| 19:15.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=karl@adsl-67-127-97-8.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 19:17.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@adsl-1-74-197.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:18.14 | Tem | does anyone know the character code for the "|" character? |
| 19:18.27 | Tem | I wanna say it's \125 but that's not quite right |
| 19:18.40 | AnduinLothar | nope, what'da need it for? |
| 19:19.32 | Tem | so I can send item links without writing a function to do it |
| 19:19.48 | kremonte | 124 |
| 19:19.54 | Tem | oh lol |
| 19:19.57 | kremonte | lol |
| 19:20.08 | kremonte | yay, got my onyxia scale cloak |
| 19:20.52 | Tem | grats |
| 19:25.56 | Tem | easiest way to convert 0-1 color codes into 0-ff hex codes? |
| 19:29.35 | kremonte | do you have photoshop/paintshop Tem? |
| 19:29.59 | kremonte | you can probably do it with a script, but i just multiplied 255 by the 0-1 number |
| 19:30.11 | kremonte | then put it in photoshop (.5 rounds up) |
| 19:30.15 | kremonte | are you looking for quality colours? |
| 19:30.44 | Tem | well I've got it down to some pretty simple 0-255 hex conversion now |
| 19:30.49 | Tem | and that's fairly basic |
| 19:30.54 | kremonte | are you looking for quality colors tho? |
| 19:30.56 | Tem | so what I've got is fine |
| 19:31.03 | Tem | Well I'm using to get them |
| 19:31.07 | kremonte | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4360 |
| 19:31.17 | Tem | but I don't feel like storing the or detecting them |
| 19:31.18 | kremonte | that has ITEM_QUALITY_HEXCOLOR |
| 19:31.29 | Tem | I'm just using the first line of a hidden tooltip |
| 19:31.35 | Tem | (the color of the line) |
| 19:31.58 | kremonte | ugh wtf |
| 19:32.01 | kremonte | this lag is unbearable |
| 19:32.07 | kremonte | my game locks up when we engage vael |
| 19:32.11 | Tem | hrm |
| 19:32.12 | kremonte | literally 1 frame every 10 seconds... |
| 19:32.17 | Tem | that's awefl |
| 19:32.32 | Tem | awful |
| 19:33.54 | kremonte | OMG |
| 19:33.58 | kremonte | my onupdate blew up... |
| 19:35.25 | Tem | I'm scared to ask |
| 19:35.50 | kremonte | i had an addon off that i didnt list as a dependency for my mod |
| 19:35.57 | kremonte | so onupdate it was li |
| 19:35.59 | kremonte | like, kaboom |
| 19:36.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jeebs|So|ZzZ (i=Jeebs@blk-224-159-44.eastlink.ca) |
| 19:40.14 | Tem | hrh |
| 19:40.15 | Tem | heh |
| 19:41.31 | kremonte | ugh |
| 19:41.43 | kremonte | gotta leave vael |
| 19:41.53 | kremonte | no addons on, all settings minimum |
| 19:41.58 | kremonte | FPS: 0.1 |
| 19:45.59 | kremonte | hmm, does WoW run well on wine? |
| 19:55.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Sir-Tez (n=mackin@adsl-69-209-231-148.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 19:58.40 | Beladona | i have returned |
| 19:59.27 | Sir-Tez | and I've arrived |
| 20:01.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 20:09.41 | Cide | anyone able to help me with a regular expression? :) |
| 20:10.20 | Mondinga | heh, depends on what it is:P |
| 20:10.44 | Cide | do you know regexps outside of lua string captures? |
| 20:11.04 | Mondinga | nope |
| 20:11.18 | Cide | ah, won't be able to help then hehe |
| 20:11.31 | Cide | thanks anyways though |
| 20:11.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:11.49 | Cide | Iriel! |
| 20:11.57 | Iriel | Afternoon |
| 20:12.09 | Cide | evening here :) do you feel like helping out with a regular expression? |
| 20:12.21 | Iriel | Sure |
| 20:12.38 | Cide | (text)? will match text as an optional capture, right? |
| 20:13.39 | Iriel | no |
| 20:13.43 | Cide | no? |
| 20:13.52 | Iriel | lua's RE's dont have that level of complexity |
| 20:13.59 | Cide | I don't mean LUA :) |
| 20:14.23 | Iriel | Oh, which language are you in then |
| 20:14.27 | Iriel | it varies greatly 8-) |
| 20:14.34 | Cide | PHP, which I believe uses a perl engine |
| 20:15.01 | kremonte | PHP uses POSIX |
| 20:15.48 | Cide | okay |
| 20:17.47 | Cide | I'm trying to match three different types of strings in one regexp, one being "$/[0-9]+;[sxtdhom]", the second one being "$[0-9]*[sxtdhom][0-9]*", the third one being "$L([^:]+):([^;]);" |
| 20:17.51 | Iriel | So yes, according to the posix RE documentation, that expressoin does what you want |
| 20:19.30 | Iriel | so '$24;x' '$m7' and '$LStrange Stuff Indeed:Random other stuff;' ? |
| 20:20.04 | Cide | '$24x', not '$24;x' |
| 20:20.23 | Cide | but yeah, prety much |
| 20:20.27 | Iriel | Sorry, I meant $/24;x |
| 20:20.33 | Iriel | (The first pattern) |
| 20:20.33 | Cide | yeah, that would be correct |
| 20:20.53 | Cide | right now I have |
| 20:22.01 | Cide | \\$(\\/)?([0-9]+|l[^;]+)?(;|[sxtdhom][0-9]*) |
| 20:22.27 | Iriel | Are you trying to just match, or are you trying to match AND capture? |
| 20:22.32 | Cide | match and capture |
| 20:22.51 | Iriel | What are the captures for the first 2? |
| 20:23.07 | Cide | first capture is for the / in '/24x' |
| 20:23.43 | Cide | err, second capture was supposed to be ([0-9]+|L[^;]+) |
| 20:24.08 | Cide | second is for either numbers ('24x' or '31241d') or for the L up to behind the semicolon |
| 20:24.41 | Cide | then use the third capture to finish off if it was Lstr:str; or to get the letter and any ending numbers otherwise |
| 20:29.32 | Vizir | when i use UnitBuff("target",1) i get Interface\Icons\Spell_Nature_Regeneration, is that buff-texture accurate and unique for MotW? |
| 20:30.42 | Cide | gotw has it too |
| 20:30.48 | Vizir | ah |
| 20:31.00 | Vizir | is there a list of what textures match which buffs? |
| 20:31.28 | Cide | I have a listing of all the ones CTRA uses, but other than that, I don't think so |
| 20:31.50 | Vizir | is that in ctra code? |
| 20:31.57 | Vizir | or do you have it seperately |
| 20:31.59 | Cide | CT_RASets.lua I believe |
| 20:32.05 | Vizir | sweet |
| 20:32.05 | Cide | CT_RA_BuffTextures (a table) |
| 20:32.13 | Vizir | that helps a lot |
| 20:32.20 | Vizir | a lot less testing :P |
| 20:32.21 | Vizir | thanks |
| 20:34.19 | Vizir | i see that ctra also has the time associated with that spell |
| 20:34.56 | Vizir | is it possible to see which spell has been case just by the texture? |
| 20:35.09 | Vizir | or maybe another function call |
| 20:37.33 | Cide | what do you mean? |
| 20:37.56 | Iriel | Here: [\$](?:(?:/([0-9]+);([sxtdhom]))|([0-9]*)([sxtdhom])([0-9]*)|(?:L([^:]+):([^;]);)) |
| 20:38.04 | Iriel | Pretty isn't it? |
| 20:38.12 | Cide | indeed |
| 20:38.13 | Cide | let me try it |
| 20:38.38 | Iriel | Captures 1&2 are the first case, 3,4&5 are the 2nd, and 6&7 are the 3rd case |
| 20:38.52 | Iriel | so just check which of 1,3 or 6 is defiend |
| 20:38.55 | Iriel | defined, even |
| 20:39.10 | Cide | doesn't seem to work with PHP |
| 20:39.33 | Iriel | Hm, there's a bug actually in what I just copied, one moment |
| 20:39.56 | Iriel | [\$](?:(?:/([0-9]+);([sxtdhom]))|(?:([0-9]*)([sxtdhom])([0-9]*))|(?:L([^:]+):([^;]);)) |
| 20:40.19 | Cide | Unknown modifier '(' |
| 20:41.21 | Iriel | Hm |
| 20:42.00 | Iriel | Let me test it in php |
| 20:42.09 | Iriel | (Works in perl) |
| 20:42.17 | Cide | I'm using preg_match_all |
| 20:42.35 | Cide | preg_match_all("/[\$](?:(?:/([0-9]+);([sxtdhom]))|(?:([0-9]*)([sxtdhom])([0-9]*))|(?:L([^:]+):([^;]);))/", $str, $arr); |
| 20:42.48 | Cide | $str holding the string to parse |
| 20:44.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RasmusKL (i=RasmusKL@wnpgmb09dc1-119-73.dynamic.mts.net) |
| 20:46.13 | Iriel | Hm, helpful error message that |
| 20:46.24 | Cide | yeah, really |
| 20:47.57 | Cide | ah |
| 20:48.01 | Cide | you have ?:/ |
| 20:48.07 | Cide | err |
| 20:48.09 | Cide | (/ |
| 20:48.15 | Cide | changed to (\\/ and it works |
| 20:49.05 | Iriel | Does it match everything right? |
| 20:50.51 | Cide | seems like it |
| 20:51.12 | Cide | actually, not quite |
| 20:51.30 | Cide | it matched "$/24;h" out of "$/24;h3" |
| 20:52.15 | Iriel | You didn't give me numbers after the semicolon then letter |
| 20:52.29 | Iriel | In your list of RE's earlier |
| 20:52.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (n=user@cpe-72-225-160-94.si.res.rr.com) |
| 20:52.43 | Cide | true, sorry |
| 20:52.48 | Iriel | Just stick a ([0-9]*) in the appropriate place |
| 20:53.10 | Iriel | ie. ...hom])([0-9]*))|(?:... |
| 20:54.45 | Cide | didn't match $Labc:def; at all |
| 20:56.13 | kremonte | which zep at gromgol goes to org? |
| 20:56.18 | kremonte | im taking the zep on my 60 gnome |
| 20:56.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Trilian (n=Miranda@dyndsl-085-016-019-177.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:56.34 | Cide | the one to the south |
| 20:56.56 | kremonte | theyre east and west o_o |
| 20:57.02 | kremonte | the once facing the ocean? |
| 20:57.21 | Cide | are you sure? |
| 20:57.22 | kremonte | oh, that is south |
| 20:57.25 | RedcXe | hi kremonte |
| 20:57.26 | Cide | :P |
| 20:57.27 | kremonte | damn horde! |
| 20:57.29 | Cide | haha |
| 20:57.29 | kremonte | hi alex :o |
| 20:57.45 | kremonte | cot just downed vael and guess who wasnt there, just like razorgore |
| 20:57.52 | RedcXe | pwned B) |
| 20:58.08 | RedcXe | did you get any water essence? |
| 20:58.26 | kremonte | i have 2, but i need 6 for my trinket |
| 20:58.34 | kremonte | woot, zeppelin taking off for org |
| 20:58.47 | Cide | got it to work Iriel, thanks a lot |
| 20:58.51 | kremonte | cide |
| 20:58.57 | kremonte | i need you to put my trevor mod in ctra |
| 20:58.57 | Cide | ya kremonte |
| 20:59.04 | Sir-Tez | what server are you folks on? |
| 20:59.06 | kremonte | :p |
| 20:59.09 | Cide | <- Alleria |
| 20:59.14 | RedcXe | dan |
| 20:59.16 | kremonte | www.dan-rouse.com/trevor.zip |
| 20:59.18 | RedcXe | should i just buy the essence? |
| 20:59.19 | kremonte | ya? |
| 20:59.22 | kremonte | no |
| 20:59.23 | Cide | heh, ratrevor is scary |
| 20:59.32 | kremonte | isnt ratrevor not in it anymore? |
| 20:59.36 | Cide | nope |
| 20:59.48 | kremonte | wait, is that a no its not in it, or no it is not not in it |
| 20:59.50 | kremonte | ...wah |
| 21:00.08 | RedcXe | noob |
| 21:00.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip70-181-69-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 21:00.13 | RedcXe | give me your essence of water |
| 21:00.15 | RedcXe | :( |
| 21:00.18 | kremonte | hi hi karl |
| 21:00.27 | RedcXe | i dont wanna buy it if im gonna buy the felcloth |
| 21:00.27 | kremonte | alex, DL www.dan-rouse.com/trevor.zip |
| 21:00.33 | RedcXe | i did yesterday |
| 21:01.12 | kremonte | all the guards aggroed me |
| 21:01.22 | AnduinLothar | yo |
| 21:01.28 | kremonte | did you test it? |
| 21:01.32 | RedcXe | did felcloth go down? |
| 21:01.38 | kremonte | havent been to the AH |
| 21:01.44 | RedcXe | hello i was here yesterday foo |
| 21:01.45 | kremonte | been killing people naked in BB after i left from vael |
| 21:01.47 | Iriel | Cide : Yay 8-) |
| 21:01.47 | RedcXe | with the dancing trevor |
| 21:01.52 | kremonte | oh yeah |
| 21:01.55 | kremonte | ohhh yeah |
| 21:01.56 | kremonte | k |
| 21:02.07 | Iriel | Any of you logged into the PVE test server? |
| 21:02.08 | kremonte | lol free flight to orgrimmar |
| 21:02.18 | RedcXe | youre gonna die |
| 21:02.25 | RedcXe | the second you zone in some shaman is gonna pwn you |
| 21:02.33 | kremonte | im running around in durotar |
| 21:02.47 | Iriel | let me rephrase that question actually |
| 21:02.47 | kremonte | Kil mog Throm'ka |
| 21:02.51 | Iriel | Any of you logged into the PVE test server as alliance |
| 21:02.53 | AnduinLothar | wow... i leave for 2 days and now i have 5000 emails.. |
| 21:02.59 | RedcXe | krem is the drop rate on felcloth really bad? |
| 21:03.15 | Cide | Iriel: horde, sorry :) |
| 21:03.28 | kremonte | not too bad, alex |
| 21:03.34 | kremonte | just pull like 3 at a time in jaedenar |
| 21:03.36 | RedcXe | 12 is still a lot though |
| 21:03.38 | RedcXe | id rather buy it |
| 21:03.46 | RedcXe | hello i dont aoe anymore |
| 21:03.48 | RedcXe | B) |
| 21:03.59 | RedcXe | and id die with 3 |
| 21:04.01 | kremonte | pull 3 at a time, FN do your CoC crit thing, silly mage |
| 21:04.04 | RedcXe | its not like the mobs are low lvl |
| 21:04.14 | kremonte | in jaedenar? theyre like 45 or something |
| 21:04.16 | RedcXe | ill just buy it |
| 21:04.17 | kremonte | wait |
| 21:04.18 | kremonte | like 50 |
| 21:04.32 | RedcXe | i can spare 20g |
| 21:05.43 | Iriel | I do like running into people I known on test |
| 21:05.53 | Iriel | It's got a great 'converging' effect |
| 21:06.27 | Iriel | Ok, StatRings question for you all |
| 21:06.36 | Iriel | Right now I have the health and mana rings fading independently |
| 21:06.42 | kremonte | omg, i just got DCed as i was dequipping my stormrager, and now it's gone |
| 21:06.46 | Iriel | Would it be less confusing if the rings faded together? |
| 21:06.49 | kremonte | fading, iriel? |
| 21:06.53 | Iriel | (i.e. both or neither are visible) |
| 21:07.06 | Iriel | When you get to full health or mana, they fade away so they dont get in the way |
| 21:07.34 | kremonte | i'd say it'd be less confusing for them to fade together, but i'm not completely sure (i don't use statrings) |
| 21:07.41 | Cide | I as a priest would like them to fade away independently |
| 21:08.05 | Cide | on raid bosses where I have full health all the time (I don't get hit), I still want to be aware of my mana |
| 21:08.24 | Iriel | But would you midn seeing your health ring too? |
| 21:08.52 | Iriel | if I faded them together they'd only be visible if BOTH were full |
| 21:08.54 | Cide | ah |
| 21:09.02 | Iriel | invisible, even |
| 21:09.03 | Cide | I wouldn't mind, but it wouldn't matter much |
| 21:09.10 | Cide | since that just tells me I don't have to worry about it |
| 21:09.24 | Tem | Iriel, you on test atm? |
| 21:09.36 | Iriel | Test PVE, yes |
| 21:09.39 | Cide | if it's fully visible all the time I would have to make sure it stays full, otherwise I just have to see a change in opacity to have to begin to worry |
| 21:09.45 | kremonte | Iriel - make it changeable? |
| 21:10.07 | Tem | heh that's my solution to things I can't decide about, I make it an option |
| 21:10.16 | kremonte | RedcXe, you see that server message? |
| 21:10.21 | RedcXe | no |
| 21:10.24 | kremonte | thats why i got DCed and teleported to STV |
| 21:10.34 | Tem | Tip: If you enjoyed playing with someone, put them on your friends list! |
| 21:10.35 | kremonte | [SERVER] Restarting to recover Kalimdor |
| 21:11.11 | RedcXe | yea |
| 21:11.13 | RedcXe | lame |
| 21:11.17 | RedcXe | i was just about to go farm |
| 21:11.28 | RedcXe | w/e ill farm the felcloth |
| 21:12.45 | Tem | mental note: don't make a lot of fundamental changes to an addon while sitting in traffic, it's hell to debug |
| 21:13.01 | AnduinLothar | sitting in traffic? |
| 21:13.04 | Iriel | version control can save the day, sometimes |
| 21:13.56 | RedcXe | dan |
| 21:14.06 | RedcXe | nvm |
| 21:15.07 | Tem | Well last night I got stuck in traffic on the interstate |
| 21:15.10 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by Cair|sleep |
| 21:15.15 | Tem | er, two nights ago |
| 21:15.36 | Tem | traffic wasn't moving, so I pulled out my laptop and started hacking away |
| 21:15.48 | Tem | now I have to go check my FrameXML log... |
| 21:21.18 | kremonte | omg hahahah |
| 21:21.26 | kremonte | i was in org for a full 2 minutes |
| 21:22.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-151-62.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:25.13 | RedcXe | WARSONG DIED |
| 21:25.26 | kremonte | restarting, nub |
| 21:25.32 | kremonte | omg that was great |
| 21:25.38 | kremonte | 1min45s in org |
| 21:28.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:28.58 | RedcXe | http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/e80d96b645c0d3e762493a910dbf6fe1b084fa16.png |
| 21:29.50 | kremonte | lol |
| 21:30.07 | Beladona | heh |
| 21:30.19 | kremonte | CRAP |
| 21:30.28 | kremonte | estarted me back at razor hill |
| 21:30.35 | kremonte | and i was in org getting to me body |
| 21:30.42 | RedcXe | server back? |
| 21:30.48 | kremonte | ya |
| 21:30.58 | kremonte | ddwsas |
| 21:31.00 | kremonte | err |
| 21:31.13 | RedcXe | xfire is cool |
| 21:31.19 | RedcXe | they have a thing now that lets you take screenshots |
| 21:31.24 | RedcXe | and auto upload them to their servers |
| 21:31.30 | RedcXe | under your profile |
| 21:31.36 | kremonte | meh |
| 21:31.52 | RedcXe | i like it |
| 21:33.54 | AnduinLothar | eep. up to 60mb... while auction scanning |
| 21:34.09 | Tem | that's a bit much |
| 21:34.58 | AnduinLothar | increasing rate at 190kps lol |
| 21:35.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Flonne[Azgalor] (n=casidy@ip76.los-rios-park.dfw.ygnition.net) |
| 21:35.27 | Industrial | 15MB here |
| 21:35.28 | Industrial | :E |
| 21:35.41 | Industrial | im using perl unit frames =[ |
| 21:35.46 | Industrial | n ymbias.. |
| 21:37.23 | krka | i forgot, which one is the badly coded one? |
| 21:37.30 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:39.16 | kremonte | we need a cs mapper to make de_ironforge |
| 21:39.27 | kremonte | T's (horde) plant the bomb in kings room, and magni is a hostage =O |
| 21:40.51 | Tem | I dunno about poorly coded because I've never looked at any UF's code (excluding Watchdog's), but I rather like my own hacked up version of Watchdog |
| 21:43.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:43.58 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by Cair |
| 21:50.25 | AnduinLothar | moo |
| 21:50.29 | kremonte | anyone have a horde toon on warsong |
| 21:50.33 | Cairenn | *purr* |
| 21:50.36 | Beladona | woof |
| 21:50.38 | kremonte | or can make one :P |
| 21:50.45 | Beladona | I am tempted |
| 21:50.49 | kremonte | i need someone to tell these guys outside org not to kill me |
| 21:50.52 | Beladona | been in the mood to make a new toon lately |
| 21:51.20 | kremonte | i was sitting outside org you know, chatting |
| 21:51.26 | kremonte | the whole language barrier thing is behind us |
| 21:51.30 | Cairenn | Bela, do me a favour, please? drop out of channel then rejoin, please? |
| 21:51.35 | kremonte | and then this one guy rudely comes up and kills me |
| 21:51.36 | Beladona | sure |
| 21:51.38 | Cairenn | trying to get you set up for auto-op |
| 21:51.40 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:51.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:52.04 | Cairenn | grrrrrrr |
| 21:52.07 | Beladona | doh |
| 21:52.09 | Cairenn | kergoth: you there? |
| 21:52.13 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by Cairenn |
| 21:52.56 | AnduinLothar | heh |
| 21:52.59 | Beladona | I saw the message that I was added to the access list, so it should have worked |
| 21:53.15 | Cairenn | naw, it's being stupid |
| 21:53.24 | AnduinLothar | if i turn on Sea debugging with about 200 OnUpdate hooks it rocks the kb/s up to 300 |
| 21:54.55 | AnduinLothar | sorry 20* hooks |
| 21:58.45 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:59.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:59.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:00.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:00.49 | ToastTheif | http://www.wowguru.com/db/itemsets/genesis-raiment-id493/ -- |
| 22:00.53 | ToastTheif | -- |
| 22:00.56 | ToastTheif | i want that * |
| 22:00.57 | ToastTheif | dammit |
| 22:00.59 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by Cairenn |
| 22:01.02 | ToastTheif | fucking laptop |
| 22:01.07 | ToastTheif | anyway |
| 22:01.14 | ToastTheif | Im getting my computer monday :) |
| 22:01.30 | ToastTheif | it arrived at the local FedEx today, but they closed already =/ |
| 22:01.43 | kremonte | if youre on mirc you can do on 1:join:#wowi-lounge:{ if $nick == "Beladona" { mode #wowi-lounge +o beladona } } i think |
| 22:01.53 | kremonte | havent scripted in a while thugh, and cs should work ;( |
| 22:04.31 | Beladona | was trying to auto-op but it isn't behaving |
| 22:04.41 | Beladona | that or it doesn't like me |
| 22:13.11 | Industrial | i just made a mage |
| 22:13.15 | Industrial | so, let me get this straight |
| 22:13.38 | Industrial | you can use a skill that costs mana to make an item that gives you back 7 time sthe mana that the skill costs? |
| 22:14.27 | Industrial | hah hows that for almost no downtime o_O |
| 22:15.00 | Iriel | Industrial : Cooldowns |
| 22:15.01 | kremonte | and mages make water.. but wah wah i dont wanna make water because im making 8 stacks of water for a 40 man raid |
| 22:15.35 | Beladona | lol |
| 22:20.56 | kremonte | How much I own Orgrimmar: 6 guards killed, 3 60's killed, more than a dozen 50+'s killed, and countless level 1-40's killed, longest stay: 6 minutes 23 seconds |
| 22:21.19 | AnduinLothar | um... why |
| 22:21.23 | kremonte | fun |
| 22:21.29 | AnduinLothar | if u say so |
| 22:21.38 | Beladona | pushing the boundaries |
| 22:21.48 | kremonte | for half of that my equip consisted of: |
| 22:21.58 | kremonte | first mate hat, black swashbuckler's shirt, mining pick |
| 22:27.10 | Tem | kremonte: really, as a mage, making water @$!%ing sucks |
| 22:28.33 | Tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.18 | kremonte | i know it sucks |
| 22:29.24 | kremonte | but to mages have to whine about it so much? |
| 22:29.27 | kremonte | do* |
| 22:29.36 | Tem | seriously, yes |
| 22:29.41 | kremonte | i know, 4 water per cast sucks, but you're not making 300 stacks every raid are you? |
| 22:29.48 | Tem | yes I am |
| 22:29.53 | kremonte | 300 stacks? |
| 22:29.58 | Tem | 300 waters |
| 22:30.02 | Tem | takes 20 minutes |
| 22:30.10 | AnduinLothar | just make an ActionQueue for it and spin in circles |
| 22:30.29 | Beladona | it sucks, but would you rather your raid be without water, and ultimatley suck? |
| 22:30.33 | Tem | And that's with 2 druids innervating me when their timers come up |
| 22:31.03 | kremonte | the only reason to come to a raid with 0 water would be you just logged on, alsoyou have until everyone gets summoned and buffed |
| 22:31.25 | Tem | Because water is such a pain to make I make it as I need it |
| 22:31.33 | Tem | so I rarely have more than 5-6 waters on me |
| 22:31.40 | kremonte | it's not fun but neither is going out and farming for an hour before a raid to summon people and make stones |
| 22:31.56 | kremonte | i think everyone can agree that 4 water per cast sucks, theyre making it 10 in 1.9 right? |
| 22:32.05 | Tem | yeah that sucks too, but that's why people should just get off their lazy asses and running themselves |
| 22:32.21 | kremonte | exactly, thats why people should get off their lazy asses and buy some water |
| 22:32.40 | Tem | you can't buy anything as good as the mage water |
| 22:32.53 | Tem | (excluding the expensive Argent Dawn water) |
| 22:32.54 | kremonte | moonberry juice is good enough imo /shrug |
| 22:32.59 | kremonte | maybe not for healers |
| 22:33.01 | Tem | you must be a hunter |
| 22:33.04 | kremonte | warlock |
| 22:33.11 | Tem | close enough, you can eat your health |
| 22:33.31 | kremonte | yeah but that means you only really need to make water for a couple healers and yourself |
| 22:33.37 | Tem | heh |
| 22:33.52 | Tem | I wish |
| 22:34.07 | Beladona | need to wait and see how increasing to 10 per cast will affect it |
| 22:34.07 | Tem | anyway, the 10 per cast next patch will probably be fine |
| 22:34.13 | Beladona | might not be as bad |
| 22:34.20 | kremonte | 300 waters still takes awhile |
| 22:34.24 | Tem | yeah |
| 22:34.34 | kremonte | but it cuts it in more than half |
| 22:34.41 | Tem | yep |
| 22:34.45 | Tem | they also reduced the casting cose |
| 22:34.46 | Beladona | yup |
| 22:34.49 | Tem | cost* |
| 22:34.52 | Beladona | 74 casts down to 30 |
| 22:35.14 | Beladona | err 75 casts, my bad |
| 22:35.17 | kremonte | i think the *hardcore* whiners is what pisses me off |
| 22:35.21 | Tem | "Time is money, friend" |
| 22:35.28 | kremonte | posting "1.9 wont change it" yada yada |
| 22:35.32 | Tem | oh |
| 22:35.33 | Beladona | exactly |
| 22:35.37 | Tem | I hadn't seen those |
| 22:35.45 | Tem | I typically ignore the forums |
| 22:35.51 | Beladona | all you can do is ignore those fools |
| 22:36.06 | Beladona | they will not be happy until they can summon 300 waters in 2 seconds using 4 mana |
| 22:36.33 | Tem | I still visit the UI forums only because there are still a few non-retarded people left there |
| 22:36.58 | kremonte | lol |
| 22:37.00 | Beladona | because most ui developers tend to think of solutions to problems more than just the problems |
| 22:37.00 | kremonte | yeah |
| 22:37.11 | kremonte | the forums are whats really bad, and i think a lot of thojse people give classes a bad name |
| 22:37.33 | Beladona | and a lot of people that read the forums jump on the bandwagon |
| 22:37.36 | Tem | although the UI forums has become a hotbed of people going "kun joo tel wut MOD 2 use?" |
| 22:37.40 | Beladona | without really having their own opinion |
| 22:37.49 | kremonte | thats so true, Beladona |
| 22:38.04 | kremonte | in stockades at 27 a mage was whining when the priest asked for water |
| 22:38.08 | Beladona | I prefer the people that take the time to post hard numbers |
| 22:38.09 | kremonte | "omg what you think im a vending machine?" |
| 22:38.25 | Tem | No mage should whine about making water until they are 60 |
| 22:38.30 | Beladona | the priest should say, ok fine, but I will wine when you need healing |
| 22:38.44 | Tem | it wasn't a problem while leveling because could get it to make more than 2 per cast |
| 22:39.05 | Tem | wow my typing is terrible today |
| 22:39.48 | Tem | btw you should watch the video I posted... I find it most humorous |
| 22:40.08 | kremonte | ive seen a lot of those water videos |
| 22:40.17 | Tem | there are more? |
| 22:40.20 | kremonte | like the one with the mage running around making water in the middle of scholo |
| 22:40.23 | kremonte | was that that one? |
| 22:40.28 | Tem | no |
| 22:40.32 | Beladona | I see it this way. Constructive complaints in the forums are the only way to get things changed |
| 22:40.33 | Tem | this is one a flash animation |
| 22:40.44 | Tem | it's a PSA parody |
| 22:40.45 | Beladona | not whining for hours to people that really could care less |
| 22:40.46 | kremonte | a lot of mage think theyre making constructive posts though |
| 22:40.49 | kremonte | and make 2 page whines |
| 22:41.18 | Beladona | few people nowadays understand how to "test" a problem |
| 22:41.25 | kremonte | No other class has ANY problems! Mages have too many. For one, make all cassts uninteruptable, and let us move while casting our fireballs. Rogues can hit us and interrupt it, it's lame. |
| 22:41.27 | Beladona | and post feedback |
| 22:41.57 | Beladona | mages come across pretty powerful |
| 22:42.01 | Beladona | to some classes |
| 22:42.09 | Beladona | I can speak from experience as a warrior |
| 22:42.18 | kremonte | yeah |
| 22:42.23 | kremonte | good mages can kick my ass |
| 22:42.23 | Tem | I don't think mages specifically have any real problems |
| 22:42.32 | Tem | Casters in general have some problems |
| 22:42.34 | kremonte | i was surprised when my friend specced frost, he crits more often than me for more damage |
| 22:42.40 | kremonte | yeah, mages post like |
| 22:42.49 | kremonte | "Mages have so many problems that priests don't!" what about me :( |
| 22:43.07 | Tem | Those are the posts you need to ignore |
| 22:43.11 | kremonte | yeah |
| 22:43.18 | kremonte | hard though since almost all of the posts are :P |
| 22:43.20 | Beladona | it is missing all of the details |
| 22:43.33 | kremonte | like, the itemization thing |
| 22:43.46 | Beladona | I can't stand the people that compare classes on a flat plane |
| 22:43.49 | kremonte | i was talking to a warrior in my guild, he had a little more STR than i did spell damage, but he has better gear |
| 22:43.52 | Tem | Part of the itemization problem seems to target mages |
| 22:44.03 | Tem | (well some fire mages anyway) |
| 22:44.05 | Beladona | not taking into account the class specific roles and needs |
| 22:44.06 | kremonte | so assuming str == +spell damage... well he also has 22% crit and a crapload of AP |
| 22:44.15 | kremonte | Tem - destruction locks :P |
| 22:44.32 | Tem | is that fire damage? |
| 22:44.35 | kremonte | yes |
| 22:44.39 | kremonte | destruction is our "fire" tree |
| 22:44.58 | Tem | the point was that significant fire damage mitigation could be obtained without sacrificing stats at all |
| 22:45.05 | kremonte | yeah |
| 22:45.18 | kremonte | but resists are an entirely different thing than itemization IMO |
| 22:45.21 | Tem | that FR was spread a little too liberally on the end game gear |
| 22:45.33 | Beladona | I wonder how socketed items will affect that |
| 22:45.47 | kremonte | a weapon upgrade can significantly increases a warriors DPS, if I want a weapon to do that i'd have to get a mageblade with spell power, or that new AQ warlock dagger |
| 22:45.55 | Tem | the real itemization problem comes from just that |
| 22:46.17 | Tem | melee can increase their dps by stacking stats |
| 22:46.37 | Tem | casters must stack spell damage (and give up a significant amount of stats) to increase dps |
| 22:46.48 | kremonte | but like, if they made it so for example, INT increases spell damage, then priests and mages benefit but warlocks dont (int is worthless for warlocks) |
| 22:46.51 | Iriel | Opinion question from you all: http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/srings2.jpg |
| 22:47.06 | Tem | BTW if you are a lock and you like to stack spell damage, get a hold of some Flarecore Leggings |
| 22:47.18 | Beladona | melee tend to have less mitigation to spell dmg than melee though |
| 22:47.28 | kremonte | i'm working on mats for those right now, tem :P |
| 22:47.50 | Tem | I'm getting a pair for my mage asap |
| 22:48.05 | Tem | I'll put +120 mana on em or something |
| 22:48.18 | kremonte | i got my onyxia scale cloak today |
| 22:48.24 | Beladona | so when comparing melee dmg to spell dmg, you have to take into account mitigation values |
| 22:48.45 | Tem | Beladona: that's a good point too |
| 22:49.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Plorkyeran (i=Knightki@adsl-71-141-102-148.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 22:49.14 | kergoth | Iriel: looks pretty nice. though for some reason my mind expects health on the left, not sure why, and thats my problem :) |
| 22:49.17 | Tem | oh and they need to fix the frostspells being bugged asap |
| 22:49.24 | kremonte | ? |
| 22:49.38 | kremonte | same as kergoth, health on left is more logical |
| 22:49.40 | Tem | all frost spells are binary |
| 22:49.43 | kremonte | oh |
| 22:49.44 | kremonte | yeah |
| 22:49.46 | Plorkyeran | that would require that they care about fixing mages |
| 22:49.49 | kremonte | i didnt know that was a bug |
| 22:49.51 | Iriel | kergoth : Flipping them would be easy, so I can make that an option |
| 22:49.53 | kremonte | Plorkyeran... |
| 22:49.58 | Plorkyeran | it isn't a bug |
| 22:49.59 | Tem | Iriel: yeah, health on the left. |
| 22:50.07 | Cairenn | oooo, Iriel, I *like* |
| 22:50.09 | Plorkyeran | just very stupid design |
| 22:50.25 | kremonte | saying "blizzard doesnt care about mages" doesnt solve anything |
| 22:50.32 | Beladona | they care |
| 22:50.40 | Beladona | look at it from a prject management standpoint |
| 22:50.40 | kremonte | i think the fact that all frost spells have a snare could attribute to why they are binary |
| 22:50.47 | kremonte | i wish all my fire spells had a snare |
| 22:51.04 | kremonte | lol, i wish i had any snare that didnt require a talent 3/4 down a tree, but ill live |
| 22:51.04 | Beladona | focusing on one or two classes per major class makes more sense from that standpoint |
| 22:51.10 | Plorkyeran | that's exactly why they're binary |
| 22:51.11 | Beladona | per major patch I mean |
| 22:51.26 | Tem | that makes no sence |
| 22:51.29 | Tem | sense |
| 22:51.39 | kremonte | well, you have to ask |
| 22:51.39 | Tem | (the binary because of snare) |
| 22:51.46 | Plorkyeran | I wish I had a snare that didn't force me to stand in one spot |
| 22:51.46 | kremonte | if you got a partial resist, do they get the full snare? |
| 22:51.58 | Tem | yeah |
| 22:52.06 | kremonte | see that wouldnt be 100% fair IMO |
| 22:52.07 | Plorkyeran | the problem is that the snare is considered the primary effect |
| 22:52.12 | Plorkyeran | and the damage a side effect |
| 22:52.15 | kremonte | nah it's not |
| 22:52.25 | kremonte | if it was then you wouldnt have those crit%+ and crit dmg+ talents |
| 22:52.28 | Beladona | snare should never be aprt of a side affect |
| 22:52.54 | Tem | I'd just as soon do away with the snare |
| 22:52.56 | kremonte | see now since resista re 25% 50% 75% 100% then imo that should be how much it snares, but that would be harder |
| 22:53.00 | Plorkyeran | why can't those effect side affects? |
| 22:53.02 | kremonte | (to code) |
| 22:53.30 | Tem | I'm only speced frost for the mana efficiency |
| 22:53.32 | Beladona | not really. If they set snare to a hard number, and then do the percentage off of that |
| 22:53.45 | Beladona | percentage of mitigation would correlate directly to the snare |
| 22:53.48 | kremonte | but then |
| 22:53.51 | kremonte | if you hit a 50% fb |
| 22:54.01 | kremonte | then a 25% one, they keep the 50% snare? does the snare timer reset? |
| 22:54.08 | Beladona | good point |
| 22:54.16 | Tem | in that case I think it should stack |
| 22:54.30 | kremonte | then you could snre frostbolts and get an insta root |
| 22:54.40 | kremonte | because if youre frost thats all youre mainly casting |
| 22:54.57 | Beladona | stack to a maximum of 100% the original snare value of the spell |
| 22:55.01 | Beladona | never over |
| 22:55.02 | Tem | exactly |
| 22:55.08 | kremonte | that works |
| 22:55.13 | kremonte | but then how would the timer work/ |
| 22:55.25 | Tem | same way the timer works with sunder armor |
| 22:55.32 | kremonte | (dont know how that works) |
| 22:55.33 | Beladona | aye |
| 22:55.40 | kremonte | all i really play is my lock |
| 22:55.41 | Beladona | stacks to a maximum |
| 22:55.50 | kremonte | duration-wise, i mean |
| 22:55.59 | Beladona | resets |
| 22:56.01 | Plorkyeran | it resets to full duration every time you add another sunder |
| 22:56.14 | Plorkyeran | and the entire effect wears off at once |
| 22:56.31 | kremonte | does it reset right now? |
| 22:56.36 | Beladona | sunder is a perfect example of how it should be modeled |
| 22:56.37 | Tem | yes |
| 22:56.54 | Tem | Another thing that really peeves me is my CoC snare is stronger than my frostbolt snare |
| 22:57.13 | Tem | so if I hit with CoC then hit with a frostbolt it ignores the frostbolt's snare |
| 22:57.16 | Beladona | makes it a tradeoff to use one of the other |
| 22:57.25 | Beladona | or* |
| 22:57.28 | Tem | so I have no way to reset that cooldown |
| 22:57.37 | Tem | (excluding amazing timing) |
| 22:57.54 | Beladona | some blizz decisions seem weird |
| 22:58.05 | Beladona | I am sure they have a deep down reason |
| 22:58.19 | Tem | IMO the buffs should stack but the effects shouldn't |
| 22:58.29 | Beladona | well |
| 22:58.37 | Tem | debuffs rather |
| 22:58.40 | kremonte | yay! |
| 22:58.42 | Beladona | frostbolt was one of those that other classes hated for a long time |
| 22:58.46 | kremonte | just got a http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=37351 |
| 22:58.59 | Tem | grats |
| 22:59.00 | Beladona | stacking might bring that back |
| 22:59.05 | Tem | not going for a mageblade? |
| 22:59.18 | kremonte | i have -300 DKP or something |
| 22:59.40 | AnduinLothar | think yatlas likes throwing CLayoutFrame errors int he wow client.. |
| 22:59.48 | kremonte | yeah, -560 DKP |
| 23:00.09 | Tem | haha |
| 23:00.14 | Tem | I have like 25 |
| 23:00.22 | Tem | (we just started using it) |
| 23:00.27 | kremonte | http://ed.agadak.net/wow/mcdkp/viewmember.php?name=Kremonte |
| 23:00.36 | kremonte | look how long it took me to get felheart |
| 23:00.36 | kremonte | :P |
| 23:01.09 | Tem | I got a http://www.thottbot.com/?i=27268 the other day... I'm still in the "new toy" phase with it |
| 23:01.29 | Iriel | How about this: http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/srings3.jpg |
| 23:01.29 | kremonte | nice o_o |
| 23:01.37 | kremonte | love it, Iriel |
| 23:02.03 | kergoth | really nice |
| 23:02.24 | AnduinLothar | those for target or pet? |
| 23:02.26 | Iriel | Pet |
| 23:02.28 | krka | rings suck, squares RULE! |
| 23:02.35 | kremonte | lol |
| 23:02.40 | Tem | Iriel: I like it |
| 23:02.41 | Iriel | I'm probably going to put a bar along the edge of the health bar for 'target' |
| 23:02.55 | Iriel | I'm torn on whether I care about target mana |
| 23:03.06 | AnduinLothar | sure |
| 23:03.07 | Iriel | (I mean, I DO care, but how much) |
| 23:03.11 | kergoth | me too. either hide it or cut the alpha to some low value when not in combat... use a combo point counter addon.. |
| 23:03.17 | kergoth | would be nice |
| 23:03.38 | AnduinLothar | I've been toying with an overlay idea on the normal unit frames |
| 23:03.44 | kremonte | luci and magmadar down in 35 minutes o_O |
| 23:03.49 | krka | sorry if this is a question that would be real easy to answer just by googling, but do your circle thingies have a friendly dev API? |
| 23:03.55 | AnduinLothar | overlay target hp/mp on to of the unit's hp/mp with an alpha |
| 23:04.12 | AnduinLothar | it has no api yet afaik krka |
| 23:04.16 | Beladona | I hate to take ideas and modify, but I was thinking of applying the rings idea around unit pictures, and removing their bars |
| 23:04.18 | Iriel | Should I rotate the party member frames? |
| 23:04.22 | krka | like just making an xml-thingy inheriting a ring, and then using object:SetRadius() and stuff like that? |
| 23:04.30 | Iriel | krka: yes, they have an API (And always have had actually) |
| 23:04.35 | Iriel | That's the main reason I wrote it 8-) |
| 23:04.39 | krka | cool |
| 23:04.42 | Iriel | For the circle rendering, that is |
| 23:04.50 | AnduinLothar | ir, make um user rotatable |
| 23:04.50 | Iriel | Assuming that's what you meant |
| 23:05.17 | krka | well, for making circle handling as easy as any frame handling |
| 23:05.19 | Iriel | krka : Well, you have to create a frame (You can inherit my template) and gie it textures... |
| 23:05.25 | AnduinLothar | grab my minimap button rotation trig and use it to calculate dynamic radius and angle of display iriel |
| 23:05.26 | Iriel | Then you just call :SetAngle(270) |
| 23:05.30 | krka | setting size, offset, value, et.c. |
| 23:05.31 | Iriel | or :SetAngle(135, 27) |
| 23:05.39 | Iriel | or :SetAngle(0.2, 7) |
| 23:05.40 | Iriel | or whatever |
| 23:06.00 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : This would eat your minimap trig for breakfast already 8-) |
| 23:06.01 | kergoth | Beladona: an addon that does that already exists :) |
| 23:06.14 | AnduinLothar | right, i know |
| 23:06.24 | Iriel | The inspiration for my ring API was so Rte could re-do the unit frames with rings |
| 23:06.27 | AnduinLothar | i meant mak it adjustable by dragging |
| 23:06.41 | Iriel | Hm, that'd be interesting, dragging |
| 23:06.45 | AnduinLothar | radius and rotation |
| 23:06.56 | Iriel | I'd just have to add the code |
| 23:06.59 | krka | trig is seriously overused, though in this case I can see the benefits |
| 23:07.01 | Iriel | radius would have to be 'scaling' |
| 23:07.04 | Tem | Ok time to go |
| 23:07.09 | Tem | I'll see everyone later |
| 23:07.13 | AnduinLothar | mmm, u could do scaling or distance |
| 23:07.26 | Iriel | you can't go distance,because of the textures, you have to scale |
| 23:07.26 | AnduinLothar | if u use scalign than the bars increase in width |
| 23:07.33 | AnduinLothar | ah |
| 23:07.35 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 23:07.39 | Iriel | unless I want to supply an infinite number of bars |
| 23:07.48 | krka | do that! |
| 23:07.49 | Iriel | I have 2 widths right now |
| 23:08.16 | kremonte | TOEP just dropped O_O |
| 23:08.24 | Tem | Off who? |
| 23:08.28 | kremonte | magmadara |
| 23:08.36 | kremonte | lol second drop for our guild, 4 months of MC |
| 23:09.01 | krka | totem of evil primenumber? |
| 23:09.02 | Tem | sounds like I will be hoarding DKP to get that the first time it drops for us |
| 23:09.12 | kremonte | talisman of ephemeral power |
| 23:09.14 | Tem | Talisman of Ephemeral Power |
| 23:09.19 | krka | close enough |
| 23:09.22 | Tem | Only the best mage trinket in the game |
| 23:09.25 | kremonte | spell damage+175 for 15sec |
| 23:09.29 | kremonte | WARLOCK TRINKET TOO sdfjnkljfn |
| 23:09.34 | Tem | excuse me... s/mage/caster/ |
| 23:09.59 | Tem | It's my opinion that the "dps" warlocks are just wannbe mages |
| 23:10.07 | Tem | wannabe* |
| 23:10.11 | AnduinLothar | iriel, the trig is unimportant. i just meant ull have to enable an onupdate updater that grabs the mouse location and stores a relative position and then apply the change from that position to the initial orientation data and then apply new orientation data |
| 23:10.13 | Tem | but that's another issue |
| 23:10.15 | kremonte | warlock just got toep :p |
| 23:10.17 | krka | and dps mages are just wannabe hunters |
| 23:10.24 | Legorol | hi krka |
| 23:10.28 | krka | hi Legorol |
| 23:10.32 | Legorol | i see you stumbled onto this channel too ;-) |
| 23:10.42 | krka | hm, I even think I got here before you :P |
| 23:10.43 | Tem | krka: rofl... I've NEVER been out dpsed by a hunter |
| 23:10.55 | Tem | anyway, time to go eat |
| 23:10.57 | kremonte | id cry if i was outdpsed by a hunter |
| 23:10.57 | Tem | bye everyone |
| 23:11.01 | Legorol | bye |
| 23:11.03 | Cide | our GL is #1 on DPS every fight (hunter) pretty much |
| 23:11.05 | Tem | kremonte: yeah me too |
| 23:11.14 | kremonte | well it depends |
| 23:11.22 | krka | which is sad, since hunters is designed for that :/ |
| 23:11.23 | Tem | well in MC I don't care that's different |
| 23:11.28 | kremonte | hunter loot NEVER drops |
| 23:11.33 | Tem | lol |
| 23:11.35 | kremonte | im serious |
| 23:11.38 | Tem | bah! distractions! |
| 23:11.40 | kremonte | i havent seen one GS drop |
| 23:11.40 | Cide | I mean in BWL |
| 23:11.40 | Tem | food time! |
| 23:11.42 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@adsl-1-74-197.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:11.43 | krka | all loot is hunter loot! |
| 23:11.44 | Cide | no Tem! stay! |
| 23:11.48 | Cide | bah! |
| 23:12.26 | Legorol | he probably tried IRClient:GetParent():GetChild():getfenv():index(nil) or some such nonsense and crashed it ;-) |
| 23:12.39 | Cide | probably :P |
| 23:13.00 | Cairenn | krka: yes, you were here before Legorol, since he was being lame and not logging on for a while there :p |
| 23:13.00 | kremonte | a pally could have gotten toep. tats funny |
| 23:13.17 | AnduinLothar | toep? |
| 23:13.23 | kremonte | tome of ephemeral power |
| 23:13.27 | Legorol | Cairenn, i resent those allegations! I logged in as soon as you PM-d me |
| 23:13.29 | kremonte | spell damage+175 for 15 sec, 90sec cooldown |
| 23:13.30 | Legorol | :-) |
| 23:13.32 | Legorol | I know, i know |
| 23:13.35 | krka | maybe I shouldn't be here though, since I don't have any clue anymore about current wow status |
| 23:13.59 | Legorol | if that was a requirement, lot of people shouldn't be here ... i wouldn't worry about it |
| 23:14.13 | Cairenn | bah, stay krka :) |
| 23:14.22 | Legorol | This channel is going to make #cosmostesters deserted :( |
| 23:14.23 | Cairenn | I almost never play any more myself |
| 23:14.29 | Cairenn | nope |
| 23:14.50 | Cairenn | cosmos and ace channels will still be around for those things specific to them |
| 23:14.57 | Cairenn | this is just nice for generic |
| 23:14.59 | AnduinLothar | still have just as many people, they're just all idle |
| 23:15.06 | krka | ah, I'm not the only one not playing then? |
| 23:15.08 | krka | good good |
| 23:15.22 | Cairenn | krka: heck no |
| 23:15.24 | krka | anyone know anything about this whitelist/blacklist I've been seeing? |
| 23:15.33 | Legorol | only speculations.. |
| 23:15.35 | kremonte | how do you ont play wow but admin a site for it o_o |
| 23:15.38 | Cairenn | re Blizz? |
| 23:16.05 | Legorol | i am sure we will find out soon enough |
| 23:16.14 | Legorol | i fear for the worst though :( |
| 23:16.14 | Cairenn | it's all speculation so far on how blizz is going to impliment their whitelist/blacklist |
| 23:16.26 | Cairenn | they are keeping it tight to their chests |
| 23:16.30 | kremonte | whitelist/blacklist? |
| 23:16.31 | Legorol | blacklist can never work... so they can only go for whitelist if they are desperate, which will kill development |
| 23:16.41 | Legorol | unless they come up with a way to develop without the need for whitelisting |
| 23:16.47 | Cairenn | *I* can't even get a whiff of it, that's how tight they are holding it |
| 23:16.54 | krka | the idea that some functions are blacklisted and some are whitelisted may work though |
| 23:17.14 | Iriel | krka : not really |
| 23:17.26 | Iriel | Not without some complex blessing mechanism based on code entrypoints and execution path |
| 23:17.33 | Iriel | which LUA doesn't have the capability to do |
| 23:17.35 | Cairenn | lol Legorol |
| 23:18.01 | Cairenn | One thing I *can* see them doing is authorizing certain *sites* |
| 23:18.06 | krka | they could make sure an addon can't both cast spells and gather data |
| 23:18.11 | krka | and make sure addons can't communicate |
| 23:18.28 | Legorol | well one thing they can do is require whitelisting for some restricted set of API and have the rest neutral |
| 23:18.33 | Beladona | its all conjecture from here |
| 23:18.34 | Legorol | that would allow a degree of testing |
| 23:18.47 | Cairenn | yup, it's completely conjecture until they bring it out |
| 23:18.48 | Iriel | Come on though, how is that workable |
| 23:18.52 | Beladona | my guess |
| 23:18.56 | Iriel | we'd just hook the innards of a 'blessed' addon adn be off |
| 23:19.05 | Beladona | is that they will implement something like the phpbb developers have |
| 23:19.06 | Legorol | I don't think any form of blacklisting ever works though, can you guys/gals see a way? |
| 23:19.12 | krka | or, they could make special dev-servers (kinda like test) where everything is legal |
| 23:19.18 | Beladona | mod validation |
| 23:19.26 | Iriel | This is how I see it.. |
| 23:19.27 | Legorol | krka, that'd be a good thign actually |
| 23:19.32 | Legorol | actually it wouldn't :D |
| 23:19.35 | AnduinLothar | any way they do it it'll be a pain and a half for us.. |
| 23:19.56 | kremonte | WTF |
| 23:20.02 | kremonte | increasing rate is 56kb/s |
| 23:20.08 | krka | Iriel: they could totally make sure addons can't reach eachother |
| 23:20.09 | Beladona | anyone looked at the pub files in the detault blizzard addons |
| 23:20.16 | kremonte | what the hell is lagging me so much |
| 23:20.17 | Iriel | You can't do it at the 'addon level' without forcing all addons to go through certification, which woulkdn't happen |
| 23:20.23 | Legorol | krka, only if they separated the global namespace |
| 23:20.29 | Legorol | and that would mess up so many things |
| 23:20.47 | Legorol | Beladona: looked, yes, deciphered, no :-) |
| 23:20.50 | kergoth | too drastic a change, i couldnt see them doing that at this point |
| 23:20.54 | krka | indeed, everything would break |
| 23:21.01 | Cairenn | obviously there is going to be that list that they have been talking about for a while |
| 23:21.08 | krka | too drastic? blizzard won't be afraid to break all current addons |
| 23:21.09 | Beladona | my guess is that the pub files are signature files specific to those addons |
| 23:21.11 | Cairenn | "this is okay" "that isn't" |
| 23:21.13 | kremonte | what gives me a much higher memory usage (as far as UI goes)? what could? |
| 23:21.16 | AnduinLothar | any way to compare a function to see if it's the same funciton i assigned it to? |
| 23:21.18 | Beladona | and will be required for future approved addons |
| 23:21.23 | Legorol | well we have strings in GlueXML with "this addon is banned" or some such already, right? |
| 23:21.25 | krka | f1 == f2? |
| 23:21.28 | Legorol | so that points that something is coming |
| 23:21.38 | Cairenn | kremonte: you've tried TraceEvent, right? |
| 23:21.41 | AnduinLothar | ya kra, it's not working for dynamicly defined functions |
| 23:21.45 | kremonte | traceevent? |
| 23:21.52 | krka | can you pastebin an example? |
| 23:21.57 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : It works perfectly for all functions |
| 23:21.58 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, what's a dynamicaly defined function? |
| 23:21.59 | AnduinLothar | ya sec |
| 23:22.01 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4053 |
| 23:22.04 | kremonte | i cant really install a mod right now, i'm in MC and my server has a big queue |
| 23:22.12 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Just remember that x= function() end and y=function() end are different objects |
| 23:22.19 | Cairenn | well, when you can, try that |
| 23:22.23 | Iriel | AnduinLothar x=function() end; y=x; however, are the same |
| 23:22.31 | kremonte | i get like 30fps, but as soon as we enter battle i get HUGE lag |
| 23:22.37 | krka | indeed, you can't except to check if two functions are functionally equivalent |
| 23:22.44 | Legorol | kremonte, any AddOns you have that parse the combat log? |
| 23:22.48 | krka | that would be to solve the halting problem or something : |
| 23:22.57 | krka | s/except/expect/ |
| 23:23.00 | kremonte | does SCT do that? |
| 23:23.05 | kremonte | i jsut disabled it |
| 23:23.05 | Cairenn | yes |
| 23:23.12 | Legorol | it does, but SCT is well-behaved afaik |
| 23:23.13 | kremonte | it just started happening today though |
| 23:23.24 | Cairenn | what did you install new? :p |
| 23:23.36 | kremonte | nothing... |
| 23:23.42 | Beladona | dinner, bbs |
| 23:23.44 | Legorol | bah, this channel is taking me away from levelling my latest char :-) |
| 23:24.02 | Codayus | If I had to make a blind guess, I'd blame unit frames. Or failing that, action bars. :-) |
| 23:24.20 | Legorol | speaking of bars, anyone aware of any problems with bar mods in 1.9? |
| 23:24.25 | kremonte | i turned off everything, increasing rate is really low now... hope it stays that way (all i have on now is ctra and titan) |
| 23:24.32 | AnduinLothar | http://wow.pastebin.com/439155 |
| 23:24.39 | kremonte | wtf, increasing rate went up to 10kb/s again |
| 23:24.42 | Legorol | i don't have anything definite yet but our BarOptions seems to have some issues |
| 23:24.51 | Legorol | I was just wondering if anyone encountered anything with the bars |
| 23:25.11 | AnduinLothar | leg, there's issues with the highlighting getting stuck and cooldown count not working |
| 23:25.12 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You create a new function every time you call that |
| 23:25.20 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 23:25.24 | Iriel | AnduinLothar You'd need to cache them by database ID |
| 23:25.32 | krka | thus, they can never be equal |
| 23:25.34 | Iriel | Since that's the only thing that changes |
| 23:26.09 | AnduinLothar | so i'd have to make a database and assign the hook to the database function and then check the function against the database? |
| 23:26.39 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, that code you pasted, will always evaluate to "false" at the comparison |
| 23:26.46 | AnduinLothar | right, i've noticed |
| 23:27.37 | Legorol | and yes, the highlight/CC are the issues i was thinking of |
| 23:27.39 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/439161 |
| 23:27.44 | krka | I think Iriel means something like that |
| 23:27.57 | krka | (pastebin is like the greatest thing ever!) |
| 23:28.18 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, what are you trying to achieve? |
| 23:28.43 | AnduinLothar | check if the function has been hooked since i hooked it |
| 23:29.11 | Legorol | right |
| 23:29.23 | Legorol | since Sea uses the same handler for all hooks, |
| 23:29.36 | Legorol | you can just do: if ( someFunction == Sea.util.hookHandler ) then ... |
| 23:29.41 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 23:29.47 | AnduinLothar | it embeds the function name |
| 23:29.57 | AnduinLothar | so it can grab it from the database |
| 23:30.20 | Legorol | yes but when you are hooking, you assign hookHandler to the function |
| 23:30.25 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 23:30.33 | AnduinLothar | u assign a lamba function |
| 23:30.46 | Legorol | oh, then you must've changed it recently :-) |
| 23:30.50 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 23:30.55 | AnduinLothar | always been liek that |
| 23:31.11 | AnduinLothar | there's no way to get the current function name from within a function |
| 23:31.22 | Legorol | oh i see |
| 23:31.39 | Legorol | why do you need to create a closure when you are hooking? |
| 23:31.46 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 23:31.48 | Legorol | why can't you just directly assign hookHandler to the function in question? |
| 23:31.53 | Legorol | Sea.util.setValue(orig,function(a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9,a10,a11,a12,a13,a14,a15,a16,a17,a18,a19,a20) return Sea.util.hookHandler(orig,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9,a10,a11,a12,a13,a14,a15,a16,a17,a18,a19,a20); end); |
| 23:31.59 | Legorol | why not instead |
| 23:32.24 | Legorol | Sea.util.setValue(orig,Sea.util.hookHandler); |
| 23:32.29 | AnduinLothar | i'm not sure what u posted but i believe that's what it was doing b4 |
| 23:32.32 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 23:32.39 | AnduinLothar | cant do that |
| 23:32.50 | Legorol | you must have a reason why not, can you elaborate? |
| 23:32.50 | Iriel | I did indeed mean exactly what krka posted |
| 23:33.05 | Iriel | though the db would likely be enclosed within Sea.util |
| 23:33.09 | AnduinLothar | hookhandler needs a database |
| 23:33.31 | Iriel | is the database a table? |
| 23:33.35 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 23:33.39 | Iriel | then it's even easier |
| 23:33.40 | Legorol | oh right, i think i see |
| 23:33.41 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 23:33.46 | AnduinLothar | database is global |
| 23:33.51 | Legorol | i see why you are creating the closure on assignment |
| 23:33.59 | krka | personally I don't see the point of sea style hooking, it should be extremely rare that something unhooks |
| 23:34.09 | AnduinLothar | no krka, it's not |
| 23:34.16 | Legorol | krka, the advantage of Sea style hooking is not just the ability to unhook |
| 23:34.27 | Legorol | although that's a big part, and it does happen often |
| 23:34.27 | AnduinLothar | if you can do it safely it's very useful |
| 23:34.31 | Iriel | You just look up the previous function for that database ID, if it' not there, create one, and store it in the database |
| 23:34.38 | AnduinLothar | right iriel |
| 23:34.59 | Iriel | you create less garbage that way too 8-) |
| 23:35.13 | AnduinLothar | possibly, cept it only ever defines once |
| 23:35.19 | krka | btw, would this be valid code? |
| 23:35.25 | AnduinLothar | only need to store them to check like i want to do |
| 23:35.39 | krka | function f(a, b, c, ...) return g(d, e, f, ...) end end |
| 23:35.49 | Iriel | krka Yes, but 'f' isn't what you think it is |
| 23:35.50 | Legorol | krka, if f is a global, then yes |
| 23:36.02 | Iriel | f is whateve was in the enclosing scope (global, or upvalue) |
| 23:36.03 | krka | oops, my miostake |
| 23:36.11 | krka | the two f:s aren't meant to be the same |
| 23:36.29 | krka | let's say g(x, y, z, ...) instead |
| 23:36.38 | Iriel | yes, that's entirely valid |
| 23:36.43 | Legorol | are you using ... in the Lua ellipsis sense, or just as a placehodler? |
| 23:36.47 | Legorol | in the Lua sense, it's not valid |
| 23:36.50 | krka | lua ellipsis |
| 23:36.53 | kergoth | not if he's asking if he can use '...' literally like that |
| 23:36.55 | Iriel | Legorol is correct |
| 23:37.01 | Legorol | you can't use ... on calling, only in definition |
| 23:37.02 | kergoth | that woudl be valid lua 5.1 |
| 23:37.02 | Iriel | ah, no, yo uneed unpack(...) on the call to g |
| 23:37.05 | Legorol | yes |
| 23:37.06 | kergoth | in 5.0, you need to unpack arg |
| 23:37.08 | krka | i see |
| 23:37.12 | Iriel | sorry, yes, unpack arg |
| 23:37.17 | Iriel | my mind is going |
| 23:37.18 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 23:37.18 | Legorol | kergoth: really? didn't know they are changing that |
| 23:37.30 | krka | slightly prettier than a1, a2, ...., but more gc creating :/ |
| 23:37.32 | kergoth | Legorol: yeah, vararg handling was revamped. its much nicer, though has quirks |
| 23:37.40 | Legorol | that's something handy, if Blizz did include 5.1, it might allow us to start using ellpises again |
| 23:37.41 | krka | must be a point where tables are prefered though |
| 23:38.31 | krka | i mean, I imagine that each argument must get pushed on the stack |
| 23:38.37 | Iriel | krka : Nobody's convinced me the 'new' lua 5.1 approach solves the 'storage' problem, so as far as I know you do still need tables |
| 23:38.45 | Iriel | if you want to keep them around |
| 23:38.52 | AnduinLothar | how bout Sea.util.Hooks[databaseID].hookFunction |
| 23:38.54 | krka | if you define a function with N arguments, then it must take O(N) to push it all on the stack |
| 23:39.01 | AnduinLothar | that fits it nicely in the same database |
| 23:39.06 | krka | for some large value of N, arg should be better |
| 23:39.35 | Iriel | Why, arg has to do exactly the same amount of work |
| 23:39.40 | Iriel | tables dont create themselves |
| 23:40.13 | krka | yeah, but let's say you call the function with 2 parameters, but the function is defined for 1000? |
| 23:40.27 | krka | wouldn't it still need to push a lot of nils? |
| 23:40.31 | Iriel | As far as I can see it, the new ... idiom is simply a mechanism by which one can acess those 'magic' stack entries |
| 23:40.53 | Iriel | Well, that wouldn't be a ... function now, would it? |
| 23:41.01 | krka | no |
| 23:41.14 | Iriel | but yes, lua would have to nil out all of those registers |
| 23:41.20 | krka | function f(a1, a2, ...., a1000) |
| 23:41.27 | Legorol | hmm. in Booty Bay, the bruisers can attack me but i can't attack back? that is so unfair |
| 23:41.33 | Legorol | it is hitting me and i just have to stand there |
| 23:41.39 | krka | so in that case, "..." would be better if calling by just 2 arguments? |
| 23:41.45 | Iriel | tables are great for data with any kind of reasonable lifetime |
| 23:42.02 | krka | yeah |
| 23:42.03 | Iriel | I personally dont think that ... is bad |
| 23:42.09 | Iriel | UNLESS you call it 100 times a second |
| 23:42.17 | krka | i made a SERIOUS mistaken when I used tables to store 2d-vectors |
| 23:42.28 | krka | man did that eat memory fast :) |
| 23:42.34 | Iriel | did you use .x and .y instead of [1] and [2] ? |
| 23:42.44 | krka | yeah, that too :P |
| 23:42.58 | kergoth | the latter would be more efficient, since the latter uses an array internally rather than a hash table. less overhead, as well |
| 23:43.01 | kergoth | you'd be better off using some sort of immutable tuple for that, i'd think. |
| 23:43.06 | krka | indeed |
| 23:43.34 | Iriel | If you're storing paths then you'd just use a single 'array' table |
| 23:43.41 | Iriel | with alternate x/y coords |
| 23:44.03 | kergoth | yeah, thatd do, rather than a ton of individual tables |
| 23:44.29 | krka | i changed it from function add(v1, v2) return { x = v1.x + v2.x, y = v1.y + v2.y} end to function add(v1x, v1y, v2x, v2y) return v1x + v2x, v1y + v2y end |
| 23:44.37 | krka | it was much better |
| 23:44.56 | Iriel | amazingly so I'd imagine |
| 23:45.03 | krka | you'd imagine correct |
| 23:45.33 | Iriel | though you may have found function add(v1, v2, ret) ret.x=v1.x+v2.x;ret.y=v1.y+v2.y;return ret; end |
| 23:45.41 | Iriel | to work rather well |
| 23:45.43 | krka | i'd be nice if lua got a decent GC-implementation |
| 23:45.51 | Legorol | i think 5.1 is getting a better one |
| 23:45.54 | Legorol | actually the current one is fine |
| 23:45.57 | Iriel | There's nothing wrong with lua's GC |
| 23:46.01 | Legorol | it's just it's not designed for real-time games |
| 23:46.07 | krka | Iriel, yeah but I wanted to be able to combine functions easily |
| 23:46.20 | Iriel | it works fine for real time games also |
| 23:46.25 | krka | it's fine?? |
| 23:46.27 | Legorol | i really feel sorry that we are forced to not use the current GC, very often |
| 23:46.29 | Iriel | but it reqiures that the developers know what they're doing |
| 23:46.30 | krka | it's a simple mark and sweep |
| 23:46.44 | Iriel | You cannot have both dynamic memory management and developers who dont have to think about those things |
| 23:46.45 | krka | i want generational one with a background thread continously checking |
| 23:46.46 | Legorol | Iriel, unfortunately it means we can't do simple-looking, easy to understand code sometimes |
| 23:48.00 | Iriel | Legorol : In MOST cases you can avoid GC problems and retain simple-looking easy to understand code |
| 23:48.06 | krka | yes, i blame the GC for the thottbot code |
| 23:48.22 | Legorol | Hm, Blizzard didn't think (again). Background: in EU, we get to create lvl 60 chars in full epic gear on test realms instead of copying our own. History: warriors complained that the created chars don't have weapons to do dual-weilding. |
| 23:48.24 | Iriel | Unless you dont really know what you're doing, and stumble around trying to 'fix' problems |
| 23:48.38 | Legorol | So this time around, they gave warriors some weapons so they can test dual-weilding.. except that those weapons are useless! |
| 23:48.56 | Legorol | furthermore, it's impossible to test the dual-weild Fury spec because the rest of the equipment is not designed for it |
| 23:48.59 | krka | in most cases yes. I've had to reuse my search queue by clearing its element and stuff, and it became quite messy instead |
| 23:49.30 | Legorol | how about the f(a1, a2, ... a20) thing |
| 23:49.36 | Legorol | i want to be able to use ellipses, but we can't :( |
| 23:49.55 | Iriel | Hooking arbitrary functions in a generalized library setting is NOT a simple problem, I dont think it's a problem to not have a simple solution |
| 23:50.10 | Legorol | I am not thinking Sea here and hooking |
| 23:50.14 | Iriel | As long as the USER of Sea has a simple experience you've succeeded |
| 23:50.23 | Iriel | That's the only place i've seen that ugliness |
| 23:50.25 | Iriel | Are there others? |
| 23:50.27 | Legorol | this has nothing to do with sea, this is more general: |
| 23:50.34 | krka | hooking is not a problem at all, imo |
| 23:50.35 | Legorol | you can't use ellipses in any Lua code that executes OnUpdate |
| 23:50.38 | Legorol | that's the gist of it |
| 23:50.50 | krka | i firmly believe that unhooking is unnecessary |
| 23:50.50 | Iriel | Yes, but do you really NEED to? |
| 23:50.55 | Legorol | Iriel, yes |
| 23:50.59 | Legorol | would love to be able to |
| 23:51.02 | Iriel | unhooking IS unnecessary and everybody gets it wrong |
| 23:51.14 | Iriel | teh first time, at any rate |
| 23:51.17 | Legorol | unhooking can be necessary |
| 23:51.25 | krka | function newhook(...) if addon_active do_stuff; end oldhook(args) end |
| 23:51.27 | Legorol | what if you only want to hook for an initial period, but once you are done, you want to unhook forever? |
| 23:51.33 | Legorol | if you leave the hook in there, you leave overhead in there |
| 23:51.46 | Iriel | It's "desirable" but not "necessary" 8-) |
| 23:51.57 | krka | the overhead really is minimal |
| 23:52.02 | Legorol | example: let's say i hook a function with this code: if ( timesincelogin < 10 ) then do some special processing else call original function end |
| 23:52.11 | Legorol | i would love to remove that by unhooking |
| 23:52.40 | Iriel | But how many of those cases have a 'better' solution now? |
| 23:52.47 | krka | also, if you only need to hook for a short period of time, chances are that nothing else hooks it in between |
| 23:52.49 | Iriel | Hooking is overused |
| 23:52.50 | krka | so you can safely unhook |
| 23:52.53 | Legorol | what you are saying is almost like saying that UnregisterEvent is unnecessary |
| 23:53.12 | Iriel | I realize in the old days it was more necessary , but now it's used more than it needs to be. |
| 23:53.19 | Legorol | krka, i would never want a solution that depends on "chances" |
| 23:53.23 | krka | well, it kinda is. but it's not _wrong_ because there's no drawback to using unregistedevent |
| 23:53.24 | Legorol | i want code that is absolute |
| 23:54.19 | krka | it's not really a chance |
| 23:54.20 | Legorol | well i don't know.. let me give you an example: |
| 23:54.20 | Iriel | Then you always have to cope with the case that you might not be able to unhook |
| 23:54.20 | krka | it's just that you get a slight performance boost in most cases |
| 23:54.20 | Legorol | there used to be a bug where SetMapToCurrentZone() or something like that didn't work correctly |
| 23:54.20 | Iriel | So you have to code it both ways (unhook if you can, deactivate if you cant) |
| 23:54.20 | Legorol | until you walked across a zone boundary |
| 23:54.20 | Legorol | so i used to have code that would hook it and correct its mistake |
| 23:54.30 | Legorol | but once the zone crossing happened so that it wasn't necessary anymore to fix it for the rest of the playing session, i wanted to unhook |
| 23:54.35 | Legorol | that's just one example |
| 23:54.38 | Iriel | But that's not really my point.. my point is that I think MOST short-term hooks are workarounds for problems, that can be solved another way, or fixed. |
| 23:54.47 | krka | didn't that only apply after a ReloadUI btw? :) |
| 23:54.57 | krka | (only developers reload ui :P) |
| 23:55.16 | Legorol | as far as i remember, it used to apply in general in some cases, then they "fixed" it so it only applied to realodui |
| 23:55.23 | krka | also, nothing else hooks that function afaik |
| 23:55.39 | AnduinLothar | I like hijacking UIParent_OnEvent with a hook to call a function on VARIABLES_LOADED and then unhook so i dont need xml |
| 23:55.41 | Legorol | Iriel, you are probably right about the short-term hooks |
| 23:55.52 | Legorol | the question is, what about long-term hooks that become unnecessary? |
| 23:55.55 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : That's a hack though, really. |
| 23:55.56 | Legorol | and yes, there are codes like that |
| 23:56.16 | Legorol | It's a necessary solution if you want to embed code in other addons |
| 23:56.20 | AnduinLothar | hooks, ARE hacks |
| 23:56.22 | Legorol | in which case you can't have XMl of your own |
| 23:56.26 | krka | what kind of functions are you hooking? if it's something that's called extremely often, then yes, it might matter |
| 23:56.38 | krka | SetMapToCurrentZone should NOT be called extremely often |
| 23:56.42 | Iriel | Legorol : Then make the user of your embedded code call yours at the right time |
| 23:56.54 | Legorol | krka: guess who was calling it way too often? MapLibrary :p ;-) |
| 23:57.02 | Iriel | All of my embeddable code has an initialization |
| 23:57.15 | krka | hm... it does? |
| 23:57.26 | Legorol | until you improved it.. |
| 23:57.38 | Legorol | it used to call it too often, but then at some point you put in some caching i think |
| 23:57.46 | Legorol | or checks that it doesn't excessively call it |
| 23:57.51 | Legorol | or something like that, i forget |
| 23:57.54 | Legorol | happened a while ago ;-) |
| 23:58.07 | Legorol | oh, WSG |
| 23:58.17 | krka | yeah, the old version might have been crappy |
| 23:58.18 | Anduin|Work | anyway. Sea now debugs hook conflicts :) |
| 23:58.27 | krka | the new version seems to only use it on zone changing |
| 23:59.03 | krka | don't think any addon uses MapLibrary anymore in any case |
| 23:59.12 | Anduin|Work | AQ does |
| 23:59.34 | krka | really? but MapLibrary hasn't even been updated since 1.5 I think |
