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| 07:07.19 | LordDralnu | What's up everyone? |
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| 12:16.58 | henryks | hi. can you recommend a good add-on for notifications about different cooldowns being ready? |
| 12:17.26 | henryks | something like power auras, but without all the configuration mess |
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| 12:33.11 | Jammer | just import auras from someone else? :p |
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| 18:14.10 | kadrahil | http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Siege_of_Orgrimmar/Immerseus/25H/Shadow_Priest/ wat |
| 18:16.25 | kadrahil | oh, mind sear with cleave trinket |
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| 19:00.47 | kullervo | damn, almost got Spoils H down |
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| 20:57.02 | narwhalbot | [Wowhead News] Patch 5.4 Hotfixes for October 29th - http://www.wowhead.com/news=222803/patch-5-4-hotfixes-for-october-29th |
| 20:57.14 | kullervo | Can someone help me out in ulduar? EU Horde. Thorim is somewhat too difficult to solo if you're not a telepot class |
| 20:58.50 | kadrahil | I like how this patch is all about lfr nerfs and then a random sunwell fix |
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| 21:04.34 | b4k4^^ | and finally a fix to Bribe |
| 21:08.25 | Amarande | kadrahil: and breaking various random things in addons, apparently. :| |
| 21:09.50 | kullervo | Amarande: I noticed that too |
| 21:10.17 | Amarande | kullervo: yeah #wowuidev is trying to pick up the pieces atm |
| 21:10.20 | kullervo | luckily after a restart it was just a few errors per second so it didn't cause much stuttering |
| 21:10.23 | Amarande | apparently it has to do with lame ass store bullshit, to boot |
| 21:11.47 | Amarande | atm it'd still be fairly alarmist, but the worst case scenario could be the gradual loss of most wow addons altogether, apart from ones like recount that have dedicated frames :| |
| 21:12.36 | Amarande | as far as my UI is concerned, so far all I've noticed is fishing buddy doesn't work and ara broker guild friends gives an error, though I'm a bit foggy if that will interfere with functionality in general except for warnings |
| 21:12.57 | kullervo | Amarande: MoveAnything is throwing a hiss fit at me |
| 21:12.58 | Amarande | since it seems to do just as it's always done, except that if I click on it to toggle the friends window I get a warning (it still toggles though) |
| 21:13.14 | Amarande | mostly I'm inclined to lean alarmist for two reasons here |
| 21:13.23 | Amarande | 1) blizz seems to definitely have plans for an in-game Store to become a core feature of WoW |
| 21:13.49 | Amarande | 2) it'd not be the first time a MMO basically lost its UI customisation features more or less altogether after an in-game store was fitted |
| 21:13.53 | Amarande | that happened to lotro, too |
| 21:14.27 | Amarande | first there was a gradual state of neglect towards lotro addons to begin with, apparently |
| 21:14.28 | kullervo | Amarande: you mean this bullshit? http://kullervo.dy.fi/pub/drop/pic/World_of_Warcraft_2013-10-29_23-14-13.jpg |
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| 21:14.45 | Amarande | then one patch came out a few years ago, late in siege of mirkwood I think it was, and altered the UI and ... they stopped releasing any more support files |
| 21:14.59 | Amarande | the ones that basically are needed to properly do the graphics so you can make any significant UI mods |
| 21:15.31 | Amarande | apparently the general consensus seems to be that this was done in order to prevent people from readily modding the UI so as to eliminate the constant in-your-face "you can buy this from the LOTRO Store!" icons that were added |
| 21:15.48 | Amarande | heh and I'll also say Blizzard and even *EA* are a lot nicer people than Turbine when you think of that incident |
| 21:16.14 | Amarande | EA tolerates all kinds of complaining and barbs from subscribers on the forums about TOR issues |
| 21:16.15 | b4k4^^ | oh look, it's an Illuminati symbol |
| 21:16.31 | JunkHead- | THANKS OBAMA |
| 21:16.39 | Amarande | Blizzard tolerates all kinds of accusations at Blizzard on the boards generally and I haven't heard of anything worse happening to most folks than perhaps a locked thread |
| 21:17.09 | Amarande | ... Turbine, when someone tried to say they were ruining the UI customisation to promote the store? If I remember right, the fellow got banned, and I'm not even 100% sure his accusation was even posted ON the LOTRO boards heh |
| 21:17.25 | kinseysix | oh, i was the one that submitted that sunwell ticket |
| 21:17.29 | kinseysix | neat, i'm glad it was fixed |
| 21:17.48 | Amarande | I'm surprised they have not come up with some kind of goblinish coin as the store symbol |
| 21:17.55 | Amarande | kinda like how Hutt Cartel coins are used in TOR |
| 21:19.04 | kullervo | still looking for someone to help me out at Thorim |
| 21:19.20 | kullervo | because I'm not an engineer or a teleport class, so soloing is a bit out of the question |
| 21:32.40 | Amarande | and yeah that's apparently the in-game store that's being prepared |
| 21:33.12 | Amarande | that's what broke shit in 5.4.1, they apparently squeezed some little bit of code related to a tooltip having to do with parental controls into the UI |
| 21:33.32 | Amarande | apparently for the sake of an upcoming store button so kids whose parents won't let them use the ingame store are informed :P |
| 21:35.04 | Amarande | nevermind the fact that one of the reasons many of us like WoW is because it tends to be free of things like "visit the Store! visit the Store! why don't you visit our very own Store! It's a score, so visit the Store!" |
| 21:35.39 | Amarande | this really doesn't seem like the kind of move that will keep subscribers :) |
| 21:36.03 | Amarande | TOR and LOTRO, those are different ... well to me anyway because I never played them before F2P, so the store was an accepted part of them for me from the get go |
| 21:36.20 | kinseysix | no, one would think that a subscription-based game would do its best not to let ingame stores seep in |
| 21:36.42 | kinseysix | although from their point of view it's hard not to see the appeal |
| 21:36.45 | Amarande | well also because the tor and lotro stores actually sell stuff I might want, while the WoW ingame store apparently won't have anything of note but minipets, mounts, and mog gear |
| 21:36.55 | kinseysix | because the kind of minor impulse buys from in-game stores can really rack up huge profits |
| 21:36.59 | Amarande | all of them at rather exorbitant prices |
| 21:37.33 | Amarande | like ... consider that the mounts in the wow store are all 25 bucks each |
| 21:37.39 | kinseysix | are you serious? |
| 21:37.43 | Amarande | yup. |
| 21:37.48 | Amarande | check the blizzard web store |
| 21:37.53 | Amarande | mounts are 25, minipets are 10 usually |
| 21:38.30 | Amarande | meanwhile standard in LOTRO is 20 and the MOST expensive mount in TOR real money wise is pretty much the Aratech Rose at I think it's $15 or 20 |
| 21:38.49 | Amarande | although LOTRO is a very special and soul-crushing beast in that regard, truth be told |
| 21:39.06 | Amarande | since in WoW it's you pay the 25 once and you have the mount on every character forever (this was the case even before the account wide mount system, IIRC) |
| 21:39.25 | kinseysix | interesting |
| 21:39.47 | Amarande | in TOR, any cartel market (= store) item that has been bound to any of your characters on any server can be unlocked permanently across your entire account for a small fee, after which you can get unlimited free copies of the item on every character thereafter |
| 21:40.16 | Amarande | (and I mean small, I think the largest fee I've seen to unlock an item for account is a little under $5, and that's for a full moddable armour set) |
| 21:40.47 | Amarande | in LOTRO on the other hand, that $20 gets you one copy of the mount for one character. Want it on your alt? Sure, $20 plox |
| 21:41.35 | Amarande | on the *other* hand, subscribers in both LOTRO and TOR get about 5 bucks' worth of free store points every month |
| 21:41.48 | Amarande | who knows whether Blizzard will extend this courtesy to us in WoW when the in-game store becomes a fact :S |
| 21:43.37 | kinseysix | i don't object to the in-game store in principle, because i generally just stay away and it doesn't bother me |
| 21:44.04 | kinseysix | i am a little disappointed when the implementations kind of take you out of the game world, per se |
| 21:44.27 | Amarande | (and the reason I have to say about is because in Blizzard's case you buy stuff for straight USD, while in both Turbine's and EA's cases, you first buy special store currency, and the $:currency rate varies depending how much you buy at a time) |
| 21:45.56 | Amarande | mostly I'm just worried if the in-game store is going to break other shit |
| 21:46.10 | Amarande | or do so at unpredictable intervals, such as this patch |
| 21:46.50 | Amarande | with LOTRO and TOR that wasn't really a concern because UI modding is severely limited in both nowadays (although TOR basically *does* include a built-in MoveAnything equivalent, which is nice) |
| 21:47.04 | Amarande | and I didn't get in on them in the "olden days" so I didn't have to deal with the transition |
| 21:47.37 | Amarande | with WoW I am going to experience firsthand why subscribers to MMOs get so incredibly infuriated when the publisher starts transitioning to a store based model :) |
| 21:48.18 | kinseysix | i don't know, i think so long as they're vanity items i don't really see how it sullies the game |
| 21:48.41 | kinseysix | do you think blizzard would actually make people need to buy things from the store in order to access functional game content? i think that would lead to a rebellion |
| 21:48.52 | Amarande | kinseysix: the main thing is when there starts to become too-zealous promotion of the store and people feel like it's too in your face |
| 21:49.20 | Amarande | many people feel LOTRO does that now since there's almost nary a window where you aren't greeted by a "oh, hey, you can get this upgrade in the store" graphic |
| 21:49.33 | kinseysix | sure, but i think there's a difference between "buy a bunch of mounts!" and "you can't fight Elite Boss without this $15 mini-patch!" |
| 21:49.59 | Amarande | (Like I said perhaps not coincidentally, right about the same time this first happened, the UI moddability also happened to sink like a stone ... heh) |
| 21:50.56 | Amarande | I mean, there'd always been a LOTRO Store as long as I'd been playing, but when one patch came out the adverts for it were added to a particularly increased number of windows, and often were enlarged quite a bit to boot |
| 21:51.32 | Amarande | part of the problem tends to also rear up when they move to a free to play model |
| 21:52.01 | Amarande | been a bunch of unhappy subs in recent years in LOTRO because they feel like Turbine is gutting the benefits of *being* a sub so they can sell them back the same perks a la carte in the Store |
| 21:53.00 | Amarande | like when you were a sub, you got exclusive access to Destiny Point Perks, for instance. most of them were fairly minor but there were some really nice ones like the ability to instantly wipe "dread caused by defeat" (read: LOTRO's version of rez sickness) and also a direct DPS boost |
| 21:53.38 | Amarande | you earned destiny points by leveling and also by completing certain content (especially six-man instances, people ran Grand Stair all the time with the DP boost as one of the biggies) |
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| 21:54.33 | Amarande | wb |
| 21:54.44 | Amarande | anyway you earned destiny points by leveling and also by completing certain content (especially six-man instances, people ran Grand Stair all the time with the DP boost as one of the biggies) |
| 21:55.05 | Amarande | but then they started selling the perks on the store as consumable items ... and then a while later they announced that only the relatively puny amount of DP you got from leveling would be retained, you'd stop being able to get them by other means |
| 21:55.16 | Amarande | and that even that was planned to be phased out ultimately |
| 21:55.29 | Amarande | and so a subscriber perk was transformed into a full-on "buy it from the store, bud" benefit |
| 21:56.05 | Amarande | mind you turbine also did screw things up in one way that blizzard and bioware/EA never did, so hopefully WoW never has to worry about that :) |
| 21:57.39 | Amarande | Turbine made the grave mistake of selling life subscriptions to LOTRO, which I do not think any MMORPG producer will EVER do again. :P |
| 21:58.38 | b4k4^^ | heh |
| 21:59.05 | Amarande | b4k4: actually that probably explains a lot of the reasons why they're so particularly zealous about the store |
| 21:59.13 | b4k4^^ | lifetime subs in general aren't financially a good idea unless they're, like, rly expensive :P |
| 21:59.23 | Amarande | they sold them for $200 |
| 21:59.44 | b4k4^^ | for that price I'd get one for WoW right now |
| 21:59.48 | Amarande | which, given that when you get a multi month sub for LOTRO of any sort the rate drops from $15 to $10 a month, means that they basically sold life subs for about a year and a half's worth of revenue |
| 21:59.59 | b4k4^^ | it's just over a year's worth of sub |
| 22:00.25 | Amarande | and now of course they're basically contractually bound to give whatever benefits all subscribers get, to these life subscribers (there's apparently a lot of them), forever |
| 22:00.58 | Amarande | thus, I would imagine often the only way they can even hope to balance the books of LOTRO is often to gut subscriber benefits across the board and force people to buy the same stuff from the store a la carte |
| 22:01.37 | Amarande | because whatever they offer to someone who subscribes *now* basically has to be given for free (and really for free, since the equivalent monthly rate ran out years ago) to thousands and thousands of lifers |
| 22:02.13 | Amarande | the interesting thing is that *despite* that they're still more generous than BioWare in many ways :) |
| 22:02.42 | Amarande | (or even blizz, but seeing that wow is still a subscription-only game, we won't know what blizz will do until if and when they go f2p) |
| 22:02.45 | b4k4^^ | lifers and no-lifers :3 |
| 22:03.12 | Amarande | but oddly enough a lot of the subscriber benefits in LOTRO actually stick permanently to any and all characters you play while subbed |
| 22:03.19 | Amarande | while in TOR, they fade away with your subscription |
| 22:03.43 | Amarande | (except for the fact that if you were free-peon status before, you get to stay premium since anyone who puts real money into the game gets to be premium) |
| 22:06.24 | Amarande | heh |
| 22:06.51 | Amarande | one thing I do wonder is if Blizz will keep the store items BoP or not |
| 22:07.07 | Amarande | or if they'll go BoE like the TCG items did eventually |
| 22:07.25 | b4k4^^ | well |
| 22:07.37 | b4k4^^ | if they are BoE you can sell them for gold |
| 22:08.00 | b4k4^^ | and that could be seen as a way to circumvent gold selling |
| 22:08.42 | Amarande | yeah, but they don't mind people selling the TCG items for gold now even though some are quite valuable |
| 22:09.07 | Amarande | same with store items in most MMOs that have BoE store items |
| 22:09.27 | Amarande | in fact in TOR you can basically "buy your way in" to the game economy rather than having to go through the scrimp-and-grind stage, provided you buy something expensive enough from the CM |
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| 22:10.08 | Amarande | since *none* of the CM items are BoP (they're bound to your character - wish it was account instead, tbh, especially for the Cartel Packs, but meh - for about a day presumably as a safeguard against fraud, but then they're freely tradable) |
| 22:10.49 | Amarande | the cartel packs are a neat idea though even if some might say they're basically gambling |
| 22:11.03 | Amarande | the wow equivalent I suppose would be if they sold the tank satchels as a store item :) |
| 22:13.08 | b4k4^^ | or healer satchels |
| 22:13.32 | b4k4^^ | been doing lfrs on my healer today, *not one* run was fresh |
| 22:13.45 | b4k4^^ | so I get to run them again ^^ |
| 22:14.45 | kinseysix | the lfr thing is enough to drive me to drink, last week i had to run underhold and downfall three times to get each boss |
| 22:15.44 | b4k4^^ | :P |
| 22:16.06 | b4k4^^ | I only do lfr on that one toon, because needs gear |
| 22:17.26 | kinseysix | on the other hand, waltzing into a 6-stack determination raid group on garrosh was a thing of wonderful, terrible beauty |
| 22:17.30 | b4k4^^ | my main could use a better headpiece (still have a 510 tier on from ToT :P) and maybe a trinket but that's about it |
| 22:17.45 | b4k4^^ | durr |
| 22:17.54 | b4k4^^ | got stories? |
| 22:18.35 | b4k4^^ | do ppl get mc'd on lfr? |
| 22:18.42 | kinseysix | well, the fact that i had more healing as an spriest than two of the healers should explain enough |
| 22:18.46 | Jammer | b4k4^^: yes |
| 22:18.55 | b4k4^^ | praise Eris! |
| 22:19.09 | b4k4^^ | kinseysix: derp? o.O |
| 22:19.28 | b4k4^^ | wtf were they doing? ("not much"?) |
| 22:19.33 | kinseysix | well, one developed an inexorable attraction to standing in the fire, i think |
| 22:19.39 | kinseysix | and the other, i don't even know |
| 22:20.17 | b4k4^^ | literally in the fire or just shadowcrap? |
| 22:20.41 | b4k4^^ | (because there *is* fire there for the stupid to stand in) |
| 22:20.44 | kinseysix | i don't remember, all i know is that they were brezzed twice and managed to die a third time |
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| 22:22.03 | kinseysix | once i get my trinket from the sha of pride and a decent off-hand frill/a staff to replace my current setup, i'm done with lfr on my priest. but god save me, i have to gear my tank up next |
| 22:22.57 | Amarande | ouch |
| 22:23.04 | Amarande | and on top of everything else you get to deal with overexpectations there |
| 22:23.28 | kinseysix | i know. i just got geared enough to feel ready to do the first wing last night before the reset, and it wasn't pretty |
| 22:24.26 | kinseysix | even in tot, that was scary. one tank didn't understand i couldn't eat every single talon rake with a gearscore of 496 |
| 22:24.58 | kinseysix | i wanted to buy him a book called "taunting 101", i would have done it with my own money because it would have cost less than the number of absolutely silly wipes |
| 22:25.56 | b4k4^^ | derp |
| 22:26.25 | kinseysix | all i can say is that i'm not looking forward to tanking nazgrim if that's what i have to look forward to |
| 22:29.29 | Amarande | that's one thing that seems to be a little easier in TOR |
| 22:29.48 | Amarande | there's basically four tiers of endgame gear at TOR ... 66, 69, 72, and 75 |
| 22:30.33 | Amarande | 66 is your "basic" top level gear, 69 is not very important (it's basically hardmode flashpoint gear but you don't stay in it for long because 72 is easy to get), 72 is typical raid gear (also the highest that can be crafted) and 75 is nightmare mode raid gear |
| 22:31.14 | Amarande | but, you rarely if ever see people expecting full 72/75 for reasonably easy content, 66 tends to be the "gold standard" to be eligible to even do ordinary raiding a lot of the time |
| 22:31.25 | Amarande | wonder how it became such a fad in WoW |
| 22:32.13 | kinseysix | yeah, i'm not sure how i feel about ilevel becoming such a prominent feature of the game |
| 22:34.59 | Amarande | like I said ... ilevel is at least as clear-cut in SW:TOR |
| 22:35.27 | Amarande | (not surprising, since it's a sci-fi game so you'd expect "So and So Mk. XVII" or whatnot and specific ratings to actually BE reasonable in universe ...) |
| 22:35.44 | Amarande | but people do not seem to be as OCD about it as they are in WoW, is what I'm wondering about |
| 22:37.58 | kinseysix | i wasn't around for bc, but it seems to me that lk was when the spectre of gearscore really started to seep into the collective consciousness |
| 22:39.48 | Torhal | It was, and sadly enough that's when the game had been "dumbed down" a bit. |
| 22:40.09 | Torhal | TBC was definitely harder. Crowd-control was mandatory. |
| 22:40.32 | kinseysix | it was, i had been around in classic before taking off during bc due to being really sick for a while |
| 22:40.48 | kinseysix | in retrospect it was a real bummer, what i saw of bc early on was really fun |
| 22:41.24 | Amarande | Torhal: that's possibly how gearscore was even able to take hold, ironically enough |
| 22:41.52 | Torhal | WotLK was faceroll-AoE which made it hilarious when they tried to re-introduce CC in Cataclysm. |
| 22:41.58 | Amarande | In TBC, there was not so much latitude for PUG raids, because enforced progression + attunement systems greatly restricted the number of people who were able to do anything much beyond Kara or so |
| 22:41.59 | kinseysix | but i did enjoy wotlk. the thing that threw me off the most to be honest was the cataclysm stat simplification |
| 22:42.23 | Amarande | and most people who *could* walk the walk also could build the guild |
| 22:42.41 | Amarande | Wrath allowed for the PUG raid to become a normal fixture |
| 22:43.10 | Amarande | so that was also the first time systems to really judge people for such really had a purpose |
| 22:43.43 | Amarande | Torhal: not hilarious for some people, unfortunately |
| 22:43.54 | kinseysix | i don't see that as a problem, honestly the normal/heroic thing was something i really liked about it. i didn't have the time to commit to being part of a raiding guild that WAS on HC content for much of the time, so it was fun to be able to experience the new patch content without feeling like i had to pour my life into the game |
| 22:44.22 | Amarande | in a lot of the more hardcore company, you could actually get vote kicked from a heroic at cata launch just for being certain classes, such as most DPS plate |
| 22:44.40 | Amarande | the reason apparently being *because* they had tried to re-introduce CC, and those classes didn't have the right stuff |
| 22:45.03 | Amarande | so many more assholish groups would vote out the DK or the DPS warrior just to be able to have a shot at getting a nice mage or rogue replacement to make things go way more smoothly |
| 22:45.36 | Amarande | it was cited fairly often on the forums, as I remember |
| 22:46.35 | Amarande | and yeah, accessible content is a *good* thing |
| 22:46.52 | Amarande | it's often cited as one of the bigger flaws of vanilla that so much of the stuff that actually was added regularly to the game was seen by such a very few people |
| 22:47.25 | Amarande | I'm not sure there's a raid in the game that was less trodden than 40-man Naxx (Sunwell and Terrace of Endless Spring perhaps, but only if you count strictly when they were the latest content) |
| 22:48.03 | kinseysix | oh jeez, i remember being a poor warrior trying to find my way in classic |
| 22:48.26 | Amarande | I'm mixed on the typical paradigm of there being only one current raid per tier after the first, OTOH |
| 22:49.09 | Amarande | On the one hand I can't say I miss the days where you were expected to have four or five nights a week to dedicate to raiding (as was the case with so many guilds in BC which was a major reason why I basically didn't get anything done endgame-wise there) |
| 22:49.27 | kinseysix | i think blizzard made the right choice in choosing the 5/10/25 tuning |
| 22:49.42 | Amarande | On the other hand, given the typical Blizz paradigm of rushing people along ever faster to the current endgame, it basically makes the entire PvE game revolve around a single instance at any given time |
| 22:50.30 | Amarande | It's a nice tuning, although I think LOTRO and SW:TOR possibly hit better ones |
| 22:50.36 | Amarande | though one of the primary flaws with 5/10/25 went away a few years ago |
| 22:50.49 | kinseysix | i wonder if it would be possible or desirable to bring old content back by simply creating a retuned version of it |
| 22:50.53 | Amarande | one of the advantages I would cite of LOTRO and SW:TOR is that the large raid is an even multiple of the small |
| 22:50.59 | kinseysix | what flaw is that? |
| 22:51.11 | Amarande | LOTRO uses mostly 6/12, with a few 3's and a couple of 24's; SW:TOR uses 4/8/16 |
| 22:51.21 | Amarande | guild drama when you had to move on from 10 to 25 |
| 22:51.26 | kinseysix | ohh, yeah |
| 22:51.28 | Amarande | as was enforced in BC |
| 22:52.07 | kinseysix | actually, one of the things i'm glad to see is the same quality gear in 10/25 |
| 22:52.20 | Amarande | since if you wanted to have enough prepared people you pretty much had to tell five folks "oh sorry we know you did really wonderful for us in Kara, but we're moving on now and we're sorry but we do not have a position available for you in GuildCo at this time. Again we thank you for your service for GuildCo and wish you luck in your future endeavors, EvilCEOGM" |
| 22:52.33 | kinseysix | in wotlk, i often felt pressure to try to do more 25 man so that i could get bigger upgrades |
| 22:53.04 | Amarande | with LOTRO and SW:TOR the larger group sizes are always divisible by all smaller group sizes, so you never hit that snag |
| 22:53.25 | kinseysix | which ended up in me doing a lot more pugs than i would have otherwise done, what with me being in a guild that could only field 10 each week |
| 22:53.28 | Amarande | Plus in SW:TOR 8 and 16 have always been a pick-one option anyway really, like 10 and 25 are in WoW now |
| 22:53.47 | Amarande | and in LOTRO there are only two 24-man raids in the whole game, largely it revolves around 12 and 6 mans |
| 22:54.27 | Amarande | (6-mans there are hard to quantify; technically that is a fellowship aka a standard party, but some of those dungeons are BRUTAL, they make many WoW raids seem kind ... pretty much LOTRO never really graduated past the Vanilla Scholomance/Stratholme difficulty balance :D) |
| 22:54.40 | kinseysix | oh, what's the tor/lotro balance like for tank/dps/heals? |
| 22:55.16 | Amarande | TOR is mostly like WoW except that you have a few less people (e.g. four-mans are tank, heal, two DPS) |
| 22:55.38 | Amarande | LOTRO is harder to quantify because LOTRO classes are a lot more unique and specialised compared to WoW and TOR's tendency to have more or less homogenised roles |
| 22:56.03 | Amarande | basically, in LOTRO you need specific classes a lot more often, not just a generic role |
| 22:56.48 | Amarande | it's kind of a pain for some classes, like Rune-keeper healers can have more trouble on earlier content because it's been tuned around Minstrel healers and the specific Minstrel abilities |
| 22:57.08 | Amarande | especially, RK's apparently can often put out bigger numbers in terms of healing, but Minstrels are a lot better with specific utility aspects, especially debuff removal |
| 22:57.43 | Amarande | and in LOTRO debuffs tend to matter quite a lot more than they do in WoW (especially you quite often run into ones where it's basically "if this debuff is not dispelled within X seconds you are instantly defeated") |
| 22:58.29 | Amarande | keep in mind also that death is a lot more brutal in LOTRO too on top of that |
| 22:58.47 | Amarande | I'm not 100% sure there is a b-rez at all in it (I haven't really tried the healer classes much so I'm not quite sure), for one |
| 22:59.12 | Amarande | also the equivalent of rez sickness is applied immediately upon death and is more or less impossible to get rid of save by simply waiting out the timer |
| 22:59.37 | kinseysix | see, some of that stuff is useful, and some of it seems deliberately punishing |
| 22:59.39 | Amarande | its specific impact is hard to quantify specifically because it stacks with a unique LOTRO mechanic |
| 22:59.54 | kinseysix | like, that makes sense with regards to rezzing in dungeons for example |
| 23:00.13 | Amarande | basically in LOTRO you have a system called "Hope and Dread" and it goes on a sliding scale of up to 15 tiers from base each way |
| 23:00.34 | Amarande | basically ranging from "god himself embraces you with his love, enjoy these buffs" to "we think Justin Bieber might be in your party, you quake with dread" |
| 23:00.34 | kinseysix | hang on, sorry, it's seven, i have somewhere to be |
| 23:00.36 | kinseysix | take care! |
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| 23:56.16 | Stormkitty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24s7v9l68p8 this song totally gives me flashbacks of PvP videos from 2005 |
| 23:56.17 | narwhalbot | YouTube Mindless Self Indulgence - Straight to Video Lyrics |
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