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| 00:20.50 | kullervo | This one time some tank who had more heroic gear than me pulled Lei Shen as soon as everyone had landed on the platform. |
| 00:21.49 | kullervo | Instead of just going "WTF are you doing?!" (which I did say), I also set up some world markers and whispered all healers, assigning them to different colors. |
| 00:22.37 | kullervo | Because I knew the other tank was probably fine solo tanking it, leaving me available to make sure the raid isn't wiping for other reasons. |
| 00:22.54 | kullervo | Thank you, mandatory military service, for making my gaming experience better. |
| 00:34.36 | Eraclito | mandatory military? :P |
| 00:35.01 | kullervo | or you can be queer and do civil service |
| 00:37.38 | Eraclito | i didn't do any of the two |
| 00:39.29 | kullervo | perhaps your country has different laws and social expectations |
| 00:43.16 | Eraclito | it was mandatory until like ten years ago |
| 00:43.57 | Eraclito | people born from 1986, which happens to be my year of birth, are free to decide |
| 00:44.12 | Eraclito | (also many people born in 1985 but delayed due to study) |
| 00:46.20 | Amarande | here in the States it's all volunteer, but men have to register for the draft in order to be eligible for certain federal benefits, such as student aid. mind you, that means little, as we haven't had a draft since Vietnam, and probably won't ever have one again |
| 00:47.06 | Amarande | probably no matter how gung ho presidents are about maintaining wars, since with the economy and job market the way it is, especially for young folks, it's unlikely there will be a shortage of volunteers anytime soon |
| 00:49.39 | Amarande | probably even if we pull the economy out of the doldrums, because in large part one gets the impression the job market woes are at least partially paradigmatic rather than merely circumstantial :S |
| 00:49.49 | Amarande | (also: is "paradigmatic" a word?) |
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| 01:20.05 | narwhalbot | [The Wowhead Blog] 5.4 PTR: Build 17093 - Spell Changes, Icons, Audio Spoilers, and More - http://www.wowhead.com/news=215325/5-4-ptr-build-17093-spell-changes-icons-audio-spoilers-and-more |
| 01:27.25 | Amarande | ... icons |
| 01:27.27 | Amarande | oh, new ones |
| 01:27.36 | Amarande | I was thinking "wtf, are they changing the icons for stuff" |
| 01:27.48 | Amarande | I think people might strangle Blizzard designers if they did that :P |
| 01:29.07 | Amarande | ... waitwha |
| 01:29.09 | Amarande | "Seasaon 14 Elite gear has all stats removed, Grievous Gladiator's Dragonhide Robes. It's clear they're cosmetic items now." |
| 01:29.38 | Amarande | soo ... basically, it's going to be now that when a season ends, top end PvP gear basically crumbles to dust, in terms of practical use? |
| 01:31.45 | Amarande | hah: "The impact of the Iron Star causes it to explode, inflicting 1950000 to 2050000 Fire damage to nearby enemies." |
| 01:32.09 | Amarande | heh. y'know, not to nitpick, but why doesn't Blizzard just make some of these attacks instant death instead of having them be damage? |
| 01:32.40 | Amarande | (Well, I guess some of them have to be damage, since that one decreases with distance from the impact ... but every raid tends to have that one attack that deals such ridiculously high numbers that you KNOW it's meant to be an instant death ... they might as well just make it one :) |
| 01:36.33 | Amarande | ... Paragons of the Klaxxi are a boss. WTF! I spent weeks doing dailies to help you guys out! YOU VILE TRAITORS! |
| 01:40.47 | kullervo | "if the old gods shall rise, we will serve them again" |
| 01:41.15 | kullervo | and the instagib damage... People can survive those with cooldowns. |
| 01:41.25 | kullervo | A monk would only take 200k damage from that which is perfectly okay. |
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| 02:47.08 | Amarande | This flex raid thing looks neat. |
| 02:47.22 | Amarande | except ... how is it going to work in terms of tank/healer/DPS balance? |
| 02:51.48 | Eraclito | tanks will be two, as they're on 10 and on 25 |
| 02:52.05 | Eraclito | dunno about healers |
| 02:52.30 | Eraclito | how many healers are used for 10m nowadays? |
| 02:54.10 | kullervo | depends on the fight, and the healer |
| 02:54.15 | kullervo | we could run 10N with one |
| 02:54.57 | kullervo | because 1) paladin tanks are OP 2) hybrid offheals are OP 3) having enough dps makes fights very easy |
| 02:55.32 | kullervo | we'll most likely just get achievements from flex raids |
| 02:59.15 | Eraclito | sorry for my noobness, what makes paladin tanks OP? i'm not actively raiding since firelands and since i'm just running dungeon finder it's not like i know what i'm doing good or wrong |
| 03:01.50 | kullervo | Eraclito: they are nearly self-sustaining if played right |
| 03:02.26 | kullervo | they also heal the raid, a lot. All while ignoring many mechanics. |
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| 03:24.56 | Amarande | well, the thing about flex that occurs to me is that it's pretty easy to accommodate more healers, by modulating the damage output based on the group size in order to justify more |
| 03:25.13 | Amarande | but you can't really change the number of tanks in the same way, that requires changing actual fight mechanics at specific group sizes |
| 03:25.29 | Amarande | mostly, it's that "is flex going to result in an even more hideous shortage of tanks" thought |
| 03:25.52 | Amarande | since it implies we're going to get groups of 20 or 24 using the same number of tanks as 10-mans |
| 03:28.15 | kullervo | you realise ToT 25 uses same number of tanks as ToT 10 |
| 03:28.59 | Amarande | guess it's a good thing I'm thinking of leveling a tank when I take up WoW next, then :) |
| 03:29.05 | Amarande | ah |
| 03:29.12 | Amarande | it used to be that frequently 25-man raids used more tanks than 10's |
| 03:29.27 | Eraclito | i think it's no longer true since mid-wotlk |
| 03:30.05 | kullervo | t14 had I think... 2 fights where 3 tanks could be used |
| 03:30.21 | Amarande | in any case, though, the tank ratio in raids is usually regarded as the primary contributor to long queues for dps and sometimes even healers in LFD |
| 03:30.40 | Amarande | since the tank:dps ratio is smaller there, and that carries over to a shortage for 5's |
| 03:31.07 | Amarande | that was, I think, alleviated to *some* degree as the game started to slowly strangle the lifeblood out of 25-manning |
| 03:31.37 | Amarande | once there stopped being more rewards for 25's, and flex lock meant you could do only 10 or 25 but not both, the trend seems to have been towards 10's |
| 03:31.42 | Eraclito | i'm somewhat happy in a sadistic way |
| 03:31.46 | Amarande | which is a good thing for LFD, since the tank ratio in 10's matches that in 5's |
| 03:32.12 | Eraclito | i think the worst people i know which play wow are leechers, leading 25m to get better stuff for themselves |
| 03:32.22 | Eraclito | i guess that's the reason i started hating 25m raids |
| 03:32.22 | Amarande | OTOH, with flex raid, on the one hand I'm glad that people aren't going to have to be benched because "well ... you see ... this is a 10-man guild and we don't have room for eleven" |
| 03:32.45 | Amarande | on the other hand, basically what it sounds like is we're going to have much the same number of tanks and healers as you had in 10's, but with raids featuring up to 24 people |
| 03:33.01 | Amarande | in other words, DPS swell can be absorbed in raids, which is a good thing for raids, but seems to portend a tank shortage for 5's again |
| 03:33.38 | Amarande | Eraclito: I think the more general reason was that 25's weren't much better than 40's in terms of logistics |
| 03:33.45 | Amarande | people want to play World of Warcraft, not World of Managementcraft :) |
| 03:34.18 | Eraclito | my guild's raid leader often tried to change our guild to 25m |
| 03:34.23 | Amarande | 40's were apparently right awful when it came to management |
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| 03:34.38 | Amarande | which is not surprising, since the majority of BUSINESSES in the world don't have that many employees, let alone a video gaming group |
| 03:34.48 | Eraclito | when we founded it, i pressed for 10m— we were in 3.3, icc was already kinda old |
| 03:35.23 | Amarande | so essentially, 40's entailed the raid leader having to take on roughly the work of a medium-business manager, without getting really significant pay for it :) |
| 03:36.03 | Amarande | hence why they reduced it to 25's, but 25's are still pretty heavy on the management and scheduling side of things |
| 03:36.22 | Amarande | 10, I think, is the sweet spot |
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| 03:36.58 | Amarande | Not only is the group not too small and not too large, but like I noted ... it helps LFD when the role ratio mostly matches between raids and dungeons |
| 03:37.46 | Amarande | so, yeah ... flex raid is a nice thing, just so long as we're not going to get tank shortages again because too many people play DPS and throw the ratios off :) |
| 03:38.17 | Eraclito | what about 15m? too weird? |
| 03:38.23 | kullervo | well the thing is, many LFR raiders don't run normals and definitely don't run heroics |
| 03:38.30 | Amarande | also, I do still think LOTRO's group sizes are slightly more optimal than WoW's, but mostly that doesn't really matter (it mattered more in TBC days when raids were all fixed to either 10 or 25) |
| 03:38.48 | kullervo | not many normal raiders bother with LFR and even fewer heroic raideres do |
| 03:38.51 | Amarande | Oddly enough, we HAD a 15-man raid in WoW at one point. That was actually the limit in UBRS pre-Cata :) |
| 03:39.10 | Eraclito | i remember i hated zul'aman, i was in a crappy guild with a crappy sign-in system |
| 03:39.22 | Amarande | kullervo: yeah, I'm thinking more about 5-man dungeons and keeping the queue lengths reasonable |
| 03:39.23 | Eraclito | the first ones to sign up in phpraider would play |
| 03:39.46 | Eraclito | so, while no one signed up for karazhan, everyone and their mother wanted to raid za |
| 03:39.51 | Amarande | when 10-man raids are commonest, queue lengths are probably most reasonable, because the player ratio should tend towards 2 tanks per 10 players, which is the same 1:5 you need for LFD |
| 03:40.10 | kullervo | Amarande: tanks mostly don't care enough to run 5-man dungeons, neither do healers |
| 03:40.25 | kullervo | especially the geared ones only do it for VP, and see the rest of the group as a tool to achieve that goal |
| 03:40.35 | Amarande | well, you can always use more VP |
| 03:40.36 | Amarande | well |
| 03:40.39 | Amarande | USUALLY you can always use more VP |
| 03:40.45 | Amarande | unless they bonehead it this time like they did in cata, at least |
| 03:40.47 | kullervo | 1k per week |
| 03:41.04 | Eraclito | they need to add more satchels |
| 03:41.42 | Eraclito | i usually join the random heroic for the satchel, as a tank... when it's not up i don't even bother |
| 03:41.50 | Amarande | I *seriously* think the way cata epic gems were handled contributed to the queue debacle that led to the satchels (and more complaints really as DPS *still* felt like second class citizens and even HEALERS started getting unhappy, because they have extra responsibility too and were getting jack all for it while the tank got to take home a free gift) |
| 03:42.24 | Eraclito | dps ARE second class citizens, and i say it as a mage :P |
| 03:42.31 | kullervo | tbh in cata I often saw healer CTA but hardly ever see it these days |
| 03:42.38 | Amarande | yeah, the really big problem was healers were made second class citizens too |
| 03:42.42 | kullervo | Eraclito: only if you're bad |
| 03:42.51 | Amarande | and they do have extra responsibilities, maybe not quite as much as the tank a lot of times, but still extra compared to DPS |
| 03:42.56 | Eraclito | ...i'm kinda bad, that's true :P |
| 03:42.59 | kullervo | I'd rather take four good dps in my group than 3 average ones and a good healer |
| 03:43.14 | Amarande | also, CTA felt like a band-aid for a more systemic problem |
| 03:43.20 | Amarande | which, like I said, I think I pinned right on the head |
| 03:43.35 | Amarande | it was because Cata decided to hand out epic gems solely through raiding, not through JP/VP like Wrath had |
| 03:43.37 | kullervo | high-geared tanks not running instances for anything but the VP cap |
| 03:43.53 | Eraclito | the problem is... it's not funny having to fix other people stupidity |
| 03:43.56 | Amarande | I think that one change might have alleviated at least as many problems, just making the epic gems buyable for justice |
| 03:44.05 | Eraclito | and it's healer and to some extent tanks job |
| 03:44.20 | Amarande | because one of the other HUGE problems was that not only were tanks only running for points |
| 03:44.22 | Eraclito | the average random player is donald from dark legacy comics |
| 03:44.42 | Amarande | but eventually, there literally ceased to be any value for even the points, because VP gear stopped selling well, and there wasn't anything else useful to do with them |
| 03:44.53 | Amarande | (unless you were an enchanter, anyway, then it was free epix to DE) |
| 03:45.22 | Amarande | had they made the epic gems be like Wrath, there would have been a *constant* use for points, because everyone needs gems |
| 03:45.46 | Eraclito | true, i remember how much i farmed heroics back in wotlk end |
| 03:45.46 | kullervo | they'd be hugely devalued though and people would feel like they HAVE to run those 5-mans |
| 03:45.48 | Amarande | which would probably have led to at least somewhat increased levels of tanking, people wanting to farm easy points on quick queues so they could sell gems |
| 03:45.54 | Eraclito | also got the oculus mount |
| 03:45.55 | Amarande | moreover |
| 03:46.08 | Amarande | there was apparently a duping fiasco with the epic rubies in Cata, I heard |
| 03:46.16 | Amarande | that would probably have never happened if they hadn't made them so hard to get compared to Wrath, either |
| 03:46.50 | kullervo | 5-mans haven't been hard ever since TBC |
| 03:47.04 | Amarande | (and, of course, the fact that until MoP came out, it was pretty much the ruby way or the highway for practically every character, while I presume the cata epic gems were handed out randomly?) |
| 03:47.17 | Eraclito | cata heroics weren't "so" hard |
| 03:47.24 | Eraclito | they were hard with donald-people |
| 03:47.25 | kullervo | if you say otherwise, you don't remember pre-nerf arcatraz, or shattered halls without a paladin tank |
| 03:47.33 | Amarande | yeah, eventually it wasn't so much the dungeon difficulty, it was the wait if you weren't a tank |
| 03:47.44 | Eraclito | i was the mage invited to sheep half shattered halls |
| 03:47.45 | Amarande | yeah I think SH has been severely nerfed since |
| 03:47.54 | Amarande | I've never seen it even resemble hard, the few times I've tried it in LFD |
| 03:48.02 | Amarande | actually, I'm not sure |
| 03:48.09 | Amarande | it could be a nerf or it could just be that 70's in LFD have Wrath gear |
| 03:48.22 | Eraclito | heroic was harder |
| 03:48.30 | kullervo | it has been nerfed, and low lvl players are now more powerful |
| 03:48.32 | Amarande | I tried it on heroic too, didn't seem all that hard either |
| 03:48.43 | Amarande | or even heirlooms, for that matter, since you ding 68 and the Wrath stats kick in |
| 03:48.48 | Eraclito | well true, also spells are better balanced |
| 03:48.55 | Eraclito | i remember the druid healers |
| 03:48.58 | Amarande | also spells are *available* |
| 03:49.08 | Eraclito | "no don't res me, save it for the boss fight, i'll run" |
| 03:49.23 | Amarande | back in TBC a lot of people didn't even HAVE all their level 70 spells, since some of them were learned from grimoires |
| 03:49.30 | Eraclito | oh true |
| 03:49.44 | Eraclito | arcane brilliance book... |
| 03:50.15 | Eraclito | you trained the table, but you had to buy both conjure food and conjure water books for the last rank, to train that |
| 03:50.19 | Eraclito | and they were expensive |
| 03:50.21 | Amarande | although I *think* that was mostly more a matter of being able to cast buffs on everyone in one go vs having to cast it on each person |
| 03:50.42 | kullervo | one group, not everyone |
| 03:51.03 | Amarande | yeah that's another thing I've noticed. rezzes are mostly avoided in dungeon runs, and have been as far back as I've ever played |
| 03:51.12 | Eraclito | ...stuff like that make me love mists of pandaria |
| 03:51.18 | Amarande | indeed, to wait to be rezzed is apparently even considered a form of douchebaggery by many healers |
| 03:51.47 | Amarande | i.e., EVERYONE should walk back and anyone who doesn't is rude, apparently |
| 03:51.50 | kullervo | Amarande: and tanks |
| 03:52.03 | kullervo | some healers cast thousands of resses in TBC |
| 03:52.07 | kullervo | they don't want to, anymore |
| 03:52.12 | Amarande | although that seems to be more of a factor of people being too cheap to bring food and water, too |
| 03:52.28 | Amarande | since I understood part of it is to speed things up by having people regenerate health as they walk back through the dungeon to where they wiped |
| 03:52.43 | Amarande | but ... really ... you've got food and water for that :S |
| 03:52.57 | kullervo | no, it's to TEACH THE MORONS A LESSON, THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN THE FIRST PLACE |
| 03:53.10 | Eraclito | i always keep water on my healers, but not on other characters |
| 03:53.18 | Eraclito | and... bandages |
| 03:53.18 | Amarande | Or even just food, for many characters ... since so many classes use non-mana resources now and don't even need water :) |
| 03:53.37 | Amarande | heh. I think Blizzard may be trying to move away from the generic Mana in general |
| 03:53.44 | Amarande | noting that, say, only ONE class in D3 uses mana :) |
| 03:54.03 | Eraclito | that's cool, focus as hunter is awesome even if it gives me headache |
| 03:54.24 | Amarande | kullervo: except that as a skilled DPS you start to feel punished by it |
| 03:54.25 | Amarande | two reasons for that |
| 03:54.28 | Eraclito | i... can't play classes with skills which generate resources |
| 03:54.50 | Amarande | 1) if you're a DPS and not a bad, there's about a 0.00001% chance that *you* were even at fault |
| 03:54.56 | Eraclito | i'm okay with combo points and similar, but warriors and hunters make me feel bad- and that's not a joke |
| 03:55.12 | kullervo | Amarande: if you died, it's either your fault or everyone died and you should run anyway |
| 03:55.43 | Eraclito | well there're some exception, like tank was sleeping and woke up after you died |
| 03:55.44 | Amarande | 2) a lot of groups have this annoying habit of skipping groups of mobs, to make it more irritating some of those groups are pats, and you not only get to run but get to have to attempt a nail-biting tiptoe through the left-behind mobs so you don't die AGAIN |
| 03:55.59 | kullervo | yes, I'm a dick and more jaded than the forest in eastern pandaria |
| 03:56.02 | Eraclito | *patrol tank patrol aieee* |
| 03:56.27 | Amarande | also in some cases 3) you don't actually KNOW the path to the dungeon entrance |
| 03:56.39 | Eraclito | oh right, happens a lot of people |
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| 03:56.41 | Amarande | either because the content's new and you've ended up in the dungeon via LFD before learning its entrance |
| 03:57.00 | Amarande | or because it's been forever and a day since you died here so you don't even remember wtf the graveyard is |
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| 03:57.23 | Amarande | Eraclito: yup. ICC5 was probably the worst |
| 03:57.38 | Amarande | you'd die, they'd tell you to run back and ... OMG GIANT WALL OF BLINDING WHITE I CAN'T SEE |
| 03:58.09 | Amarande | this will probably happen every time there's a dungeon entrance inside a large edifice that's black, heh |
| 03:58.57 | Eraclito | mmh remind me, where's the spirit healer of blackrock caverns? i'm not sure |
| 03:59.07 | Amarande | as for my suggesting LOTRO's group sizes are better than WoW's |
| 03:59.21 | Amarande | that ... well ... actually is probably something of the past now |
| 03:59.37 | Amarande | because, it was more of a matter of when progression included at some point a mandatory move from 10 to 25 man |
| 03:59.44 | Amarande | which hasn't been the case since Wrath |
| 03:59.46 | kullervo | Eraclito: the hanging block of stone in the middle |
| 04:00.05 | Eraclito | oh right, i remember people not knowing where to go |
| 04:00.09 | kullervo | for all dungeons in that hub |
| 04:00.22 | Eraclito | except blackwing lair |
| 04:00.28 | Amarande | the thing about LOTRO is that the party, raid, and large raid sizes are 6, 12, 24 |
| 04:00.29 | Eraclito | bwl is still thorium point |
| 04:00.58 | Eraclito | (even if there's a spirit healer in southern searing gorge now) |
| 04:01.07 | Amarande | so, you can easily set up groups without either having not enough or too many people when you need to do the large raid (admittedly, also, there's like two 24-mans in the whole game ... almost all the raids have always been 12 there) |
| 04:01.30 | Amarande | with WoW, you had to move to a group size that was ... two and a half times the size of the previous one. guild drama ensues. :) |
| 04:02.22 | Amarande | Eraclito: hah, I guess they felt the walk of shame was too much a tradition for BWL? :) |
| 04:02.46 | Eraclito | that's really a walk of shame |
| 04:02.55 | Eraclito | also... |
| 04:02.57 | Amarande | apparently, the ghost walk from TP back to Blackrock Mountain got to be somewhat iconic back in vanilla |
| 04:03.03 | Eraclito | there's still that little well |
| 04:03.19 | Eraclito | if you go slightly left |
| 04:03.29 | Eraclito | and you fall and... once it happened |
| 04:03.43 | Amarande | oh, a spot where you survived but couldn't get out? |
| 04:03.54 | Eraclito | lots of more walking |
| 04:04.00 | Amarande | there was a nasty one of those in Burning Steppes at one point |
| 04:04.09 | Amarande | I remember falling in while farming thorium on my warlock during TBC |
| 04:04.29 | Amarande | it's this little divot that's JUST deep and steep enough that you can't get out without flying |
| 04:04.52 | Amarande | and, as I remember, was JUST far away from any nearby mobs that you couldn't really pull one over to kill you, either |
| 04:05.05 | Amarande | and guess who's hearthstone had over a half hour left to go ... *sigh* |
| 04:05.28 | Eraclito | oh right, 60 minutes hearthstones |
| 04:05.33 | Amarande | I ended up having to sheepishly ask the guild to have a warlock summon me out, heh |
| 04:05.39 | Eraclito | i totally forgot |
| 04:06.09 | Amarande | oddly enough I think those divots may have been part of some sort of standard Blizzard terrain tool, too |
| 04:06.21 | Amarande | no, I have no idea why they'd include something sadistic like that as a standard tool |
| 04:06.27 | Amarande | but I've seen spots like that elsewhere |
| 04:06.44 | Eraclito | i think i understand what you mean |
| 04:06.44 | Amarande | like once I decided to take a scenic tour around the southern edge of Kalimdor, back pre-cata before Uldum extended out to the sea |
| 04:07.07 | Amarande | at one point, I think it was around what would become the southern coast of Uldum, there was a grassy area that was like *full* of such divots |
| 04:07.10 | Amarande | no, I have no idea why :P |
| 04:08.38 | Amarande | although, sometimes one does get that impression that Blizzard has a sadistic streak a mile wide :) |
| 04:09.02 | Amarande | and by sometimes I mean frequently, usually when encountering my next elite monster pack in D3 on Inferno :P |
| 04:09.48 | Amarande | if you thought some of the D2 boss monster combinations were evil, you've not seen D3's :) |
| 04:11.07 | Amarande | yay for frozen + plagued + arcane enchanted + (vortex, waller, or jailor, particularly) |
| 04:12.47 | Eraclito | http://i.imgur.com/qG2Zk2Y.jpg |
| 04:13.01 | Eraclito | http://i.imgur.com/tTNllHw.jpg |
| 04:13.04 | Amarande | ahhh yes, that hole |
| 04:13.30 | Amarande | though sometimes it was helpful |
| 04:13.38 | kullervo | can't jump down there? |
| 04:13.49 | Amarande | especially if you couldn't remember just exactly which damn entrance you had to use in the gorge to get into that particular part :P |
| 04:14.24 | Eraclito | it's not funny when you just want to go back in bwl :P |
| 04:14.42 | Amarande | mind you, after playing LOTRO: MoM, I've yet to encounter a WoW area anywhere near as irritating to get around :) |
| 04:15.26 | Amarande | The traditional four scariest things to ever hear: a) The doctor will see you now, b) Batteries not included, c) Some assembly required, and d) We must journey through the mines of Moria |
| 04:15.59 | kullervo | http://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/ |
| 04:18.18 | Amarande | hah, I think a lot of frustrated players will be OMG HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY with the way the Orgrimmar raid is implemented |
| 04:18.33 | Amarande | you know that super bastard of a boss for Golden Lotus we were talking about the other night? |
| 04:18.41 | Amarande | in 5.4 ... GONE. FOREVER. |
| 04:19.07 | Amarande | or at least it looks like he'll be, since almost all the existing GL stuff is gone |
| 04:19.17 | Amarande | and that fight was in the part of the Vale that's being corrupted |
| 04:19.56 | Eraclito | i killed today |
| 04:20.05 | Eraclito | and... he wasn't that hard? maybe i got lucky? |
| 04:20.31 | Eraclito | the one with the spear, right? with the black-red waves from one side to the other |
| 04:20.38 | kullervo | Eraclito: the fight was stupidly easy |
| 04:20.39 | Amarande | yeah |
| 04:21.15 | Amarande | kullervo: it's stupidly easy IF a) you're a ranged class with healing spells or b) you know that you can pick up and throw the spear whilst on a flying mount |
| 04:21.25 | Amarande | otherwise, it's a pain in the ass up to eleven :) |
| 04:21.37 | Eraclito | i didn't use the flying mount |
| 04:21.57 | Eraclito | okay, i healed myself a little with the healing touch from the symbiosis-like item |
| 04:22.00 | Amarande | I suppose if you're a) you probably don't even think it's hard ... all you really even have to do is plop down on top of a pillar where he can't reach you with the black-red waves and wail on him, healing as needed |
| 04:22.26 | kullervo | Amarande: I did it on my paladin. "I'm going to murder this bitch." |
| 04:22.37 | Amarande | As for b), that's just a cruel sadistic joke on Blizzard's part |
| 04:22.39 | kullervo | "Shit, waves of crap, oooops seems I jump really high" |
| 04:22.56 | Amarande | I mean, seriously, all the way back to level 20, what's the first thing you learn about Mount Club? The first thing you learn about Mount Club is that Mount Club is not Fight Club |
| 04:22.57 | kullervo | "the raid warning tells me to use a spear, there's a spear somewhere?" |
| 04:23.38 | Amarande | therefore, the idea of a fight that's made orders of magnitude easier by being able to be mounted, on a normal non-vehicle mount, throughout? most people probably won't even think of it if they're not told |
| 04:24.08 | Amarande | as I noted before ... it's worse than a JRPG secret boss, because usually a JRPG secret boss relies on a gimmick skill that's just useless everywhere else, not usually something you're flat out not allowed to do otherwise :) |
| 04:24.45 | Amarande | kullervo: the spear is a no-brainer, the waves are more of an issue |
| 04:25.06 | Amarande | when you jump, you cannot jump again till you hit the ground, AND you fall at a fairly slow rate, I think it might also have been on an angle but I can't remember that bit now |
| 04:25.26 | Amarande | in other words, you have to time every jump to avoid a wave absolutely perfectly or you'll get baked before you're able to avoid the next one |
| 04:25.59 | Amarande | and with how annoyingly LONG the battle is, it can become as frustrating as a Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden type bossfight to those who aren't used to traditional action games |
| 04:26.31 | Amarande | because you have to do it perfectly, and you cannot make even one mistake or you have to start over, with a MoP-sized repair bill as a further whammy |
| 04:26.46 | Amarande | (seriously, if you're not good at the jumping, you'll probably LOSE gold on this quest, despite the huge gold reward for it) |
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| 04:27.23 | Amarande | the other thing is the fact that the whole Vale is locked out until you finish the quest, and you cannot reverse this by abandoning the quest, only by completing it |
| 04:28.05 | Amarande | which, well ... normally if you get too frustrated on a quest you just say eff it and skip it, right? |
| 04:28.41 | Amarande | basically, not only did they make it potentially brutally hard, but they also made it almost the one quest in the game that's virtually mandatory once you reach it |
| 04:28.55 | Amarande | no wonder much wailing and gnashing of teeth occurred |
| 04:29.56 | Amarande | if they weren't going to take it out in 5.4, I would at least suggest either making Zhao-Jin have a lot less HP, or greatly nerfing the lightning so it's not one mistake and you're dead like it is now |
| 04:32.17 | Amarande | oh, speaking of corrupt vale ... does this mean we're losing the Horde and Alliance "towns" in Pandaria in 5.4 too? |
| 04:32.23 | Amarande | since both were in that east half of Vale |
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| 05:30.02 | narwhalbot | [The Wowhead Blog] 5.4 PTR: Build 17093 - Spell Changes, Updated Set Bonuses, Audio Spoilers - http://www.wowhead.com/news=215325/5-4-ptr-build-17093-spell-changes-updated-set-bonuses-audio-spoilers |
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| 16:15.22 | narwhalbot | [The Wowhead Blog] Talk Azeroth - Episode 03 - Virtual Realms and Flex Raids - http://www.wowhead.com/news=215344/talk-azeroth-episode-03-virtual-realms-and-flex-raids |
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| 18:01.29 | hazal1337 | Hey, am I the only one having slow load times with Wowhead currently? |
| 18:02.25 | fewyn | no |
| 18:02.28 | fewyn | it's a known issue |
| 18:02.31 | fewyn | we're looking into it |
| 18:02.59 | hazal1337 | Okay. Thanks for the quick response :) |
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| 19:43.19 | kullervo | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/defias-brotherhood/Adenosine/advanced |
| 19:43.25 | kullervo | heh, cool ToT progress |
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| 20:38.49 | Amarande | kullervo: tell me his alt isn't named Triphosphate :) |
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| 20:57.59 | kullervo | Amarande: it's actually my alt and no |
| 20:58.49 | kullervo | and realise triphosphate isn't the only form of the chemical |
| 20:59.14 | kullervo | the name's mostly a joke on the late hours I play my alts at |
| 20:59.42 | kullervo | also gets all the chemists, doctors and nurses whispering me |
| 21:11.54 | nebula169_ | i would immediately blacklist you from bringing back repressed memories of rote memorizing photosynthesis atp cycle values in 9th grade biology |
| 21:27.42 | b4k4^^ | h |
| 21:28.02 | narwhalbot | [The Wowhead Blog] 5.4 PTR Patch Notes - Updated June 20th - http://www.wowhead.com/news=215350/5-4-ptr-patch-notes-updated-june-20th |
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| 22:11.04 | Eraclito | who decided the armory poses for pandarens? they're awful |
| 22:11.22 | Eraclito | you can't even see male pandaren mage faces |
| 22:11.42 | Amarande | hmm, d3 trade chat is showing me something about the universe, apparently |
| 22:11.54 | Amarande | we have discovered a new fundamental force in the universe |
| 22:12.26 | Amarande | it's called stupidity, and its gauge boson is called the "moron" :) |
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