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| 00:39.18 | Amarande | heh |
| 00:39.26 | Amarande | it just occurs to me that I will probably never see Doom Lord Kazzak again LOL |
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| 02:12.50 | Mr_Rabies | i've killed him uh |
| 02:12.56 | Mr_Rabies | 2-3 times in the last month |
| 02:12.56 | Mr_Rabies | :o |
| 02:21.59 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: I'm thinking more like, if you aren't able to be on in the first hour or two after maintenance, he'll probably already be gone for the week by the time you do get on, heh |
| 02:23.18 | Amarande | I don't get home from work till about 6:30 on Tuesday evenings |
| 02:24.08 | Amarande | if he's not soloable now (though I get the suspicion he is), he certainly will be in MoP |
| 02:25.54 | Jammer | you can pretty much solo it on any class already |
| 02:29.19 | Amarande | ah |
| 02:44.37 | *** join/#wowhead ccox (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
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| 03:37.24 | ccox | Is there any ETA on getting wowhead looter and client updated to work with MoP? |
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| 05:00.21 | sidji | ccox: just comment out lines 2327-2332,2335,2369 |
| 05:01.09 | ccox | ok |
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| 05:02.18 | sidji | and backup the new file its replaced each time ... |
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| 06:14.06 | ccox | hmm, your looter code is different from mine |
| 06:14.11 | raspy | weeeeee |
| 06:14.18 | ccox | probably Mac (out of date) vs Win (who knows) issues |
| 06:15.04 | ccox | but that looks like the right basic area, so I'll see if I can hack it into shape |
| 06:18.36 | snOOp | did u know penises come in all shapes, sizes and colours? |
| 06:24.33 | Corgan | …………………. |
| 06:25.07 | Stormscape | I think this might be psychological, but when I'm slouched in my chair I tend to get tired |
| 06:26.01 | Corgan | Stormscape |
| 06:26.02 | Corgan | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18783372/Screenshots/Screen%20Shot%202012-08-16%20at%2011.24.13%20PM.png |
| 06:26.04 | Corgan | ????????????????????? |
| 06:26.13 | Corgan | Warrior, Shaman, Hunter |
| 06:26.14 | Corgan | all my alts |
| 06:26.15 | Corgan | =\ |
| 06:26.28 | Corgan | Same binding, Garr's |
| 06:27.03 | Corgan | I have the left one on my paladin ಠ_ಠ |
| 06:27.21 | Stormscape | loooooooooooooooooooooool |
| 06:27.45 | Corgan | makes me so sad |
| 06:28.31 | snOOp | are u sad over not having legendaries that were moot even 5 years ago |
| 06:31.54 | Stormscape | uhhh |
| 06:32.00 | Stormscape | Thunderfury was awesome for tanking until BT |
| 06:32.04 | Stormscape | the fuck you smokin bro |
| 06:32.37 | Corgan | it's also badass as fuck |
| 06:33.13 | *** join/#wowhead Sonka (~SonkaTeke@dsl5401B042.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 06:33.36 | snOOp | bt was released over 5 years ago t.t |
| 06:34.27 | Mr_Rabies | firelands came out over a year ago :o |
| 06:34.40 | Corgan | Mr_Rabies |
| 06:34.53 | Corgan | dem bindings ಠ_ಠ |
| 06:34.55 | Mr_Rabies | it's been like 8, almost 9 months since DS came out |
| 06:34.59 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, wtheck |
| 06:35.20 | snOOp | i scored 2 both bindings in 3 runs |
| 06:35.26 | snOOp | but eye took me a year or so |
| 06:35.49 | Mr_Rabies | i can't wait for 5.0.4 |
| 06:35.51 | Mr_Rabies | dem battletags |
| 06:36.01 | Mr_Rabies | i'll run all kinds of old content with people once those go properly active |
| 06:36.02 | Corgan | o u |
| 06:36.05 | Corgan | yeah |
| 06:36.17 | snOOp | cross realm? |
| 06:36.38 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, like openraid |
| 06:37.02 | Stormscape | my bags are filling up with pigments, inks, and glyphs |
| 06:37.04 | Stormscape | damn you inscription |
| 06:37.13 | Stormscape | why do you generate so many materials when levelling |
| 06:37.52 | snOOp | sounds cool |
| 06:38.06 | snOOp | didnt even get to try cross realm bgs and/or raids yet |
| 06:39.34 | Stormscape | cross-realm is so handy at times |
| 06:40.25 | snOOp | when was that introduced |
| 06:40.39 | Stormscape | 4.3 |
| 06:41.00 | snOOp | dec 13 then |
| 06:41.23 | snOOp | no, nov 29 |
| 06:41.34 | snOOp | clean for over a year flex |
| 06:43.30 | Stormscape | I have a screenshot of a guy getting all 3 items in a single run... on his priest. |
| 06:43.37 | Stormscape | He was trying to get his Tier for transmog |
| 06:46.34 | snOOp | an old guild mate of mine had offhand glaive on his rogue during all of burning crusade, never seeing the mainhand |
| 06:46.45 | snOOp | then he rerolls for wrath, and his mage gets back to back glaives |
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| 07:40.02 | Stormscape | So I just realised, making my mage a scribe means I'm going to be fucking rich |
| 07:40.07 | Stormscape | it's like a license to print money |
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| 07:44.08 | g0urra | 'morning |
| 07:44.58 | sidji | ohayo |
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| 09:57.05 | raspy | ok now i hit 85 on the druid now cant figure out what i need to get for him |
| 09:57.53 | hylje | pretty armor so that you can show off |
| 09:58.12 | raspy | im serious not joking |
| 09:58.32 | hylje | why don't you want to be pretty |
| 09:59.10 | raspy | cuz i wanna do decent and not be a douche |
| 09:59.38 | hylje | stack agility |
| 09:59.44 | hylje | done |
| 10:06.05 | Freyja | [The Wowhead Blog] MMOUI and WoWInterface Celebrate Ten Great Years - http://www.wowhead.com/news=205558/mmoui-and-wowinterface-celebrate-ten-great-years |
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| 10:25.32 | Djones_ | raspy, go look up stuff on the druid forums |
| 10:25.37 | Djones_ | They'll have all you can need and more. |
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| 12:37.35 | eidyia | morning all |
| 12:38.43 | *** part/#wowhead john55 (~dr.demoti@80.202.219.134) |
| 12:38.46 | sidji | morning kalimdor |
| 12:39.51 | eidyia | you must be in EK |
| 12:39.59 | Juuso | :D |
| 12:40.42 | eidyia | anyone have a good resource for learning LUA? |
| 12:40.50 | *** join/#wowhead Coreclown (~Coreclown@91-158-11-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:43.15 | eidyia | sidji: you have thoughts on the best way to learn LUA? seeing as you are the only UI dev i know? |
| 12:44.25 | Jammer | if you got any kind of programming experience lua is kinda trivial to learn :p |
| 12:45.23 | eidyia | yah - but i need to learn their syntax and random API-type things I can access |
| 12:45.57 | eidyia | more interesting i knowing which variables i have access to in game and how to access them |
| 12:46.23 | Jammer | there is at least 1 book written on warcraft programming |
| 12:46.36 | eidyia | i picked that up recently |
| 12:46.41 | eidyia | know of any good online resources? |
| 12:47.19 | sidji | i hate this petlist... |
| 12:47.47 | eidyia | hitting up the google for results |
| 12:49.48 | Coreclown | maybe this one: World of Warcraft Programming (2nd Edition)? Any help from that? |
| 12:49.49 | sidji | the blizzard interface is to slow and the list is not initialized |
| 12:50.11 | Coreclown | theres torrent for it, e-book |
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| 12:51.00 | Jammer | eidyia: http://www.wowpedia.org/Lua |
| 12:51.22 | Jammer | the See also links especially handy |
| 12:51.28 | eidyia | ty Jammer |
| 13:02.41 | neutronimity | eidyia: #wowuidev |
| 13:03.22 | neutronimity | oh you are in there |
| 13:04.13 | blademeld | neutronimity: #Rosemountlovescocksoup |
| 13:04.42 | Coreclown | haha |
| 13:04.59 | blademeld | ? |
| 13:05.38 | Coreclown | nothing :D just sweet channel name |
| 13:06.35 | *** join/#wowhead Sonka_ (~SonkaTeke@BC0645AE.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 13:10.24 | neutronimity | sweet channel name? :p |
| 13:10.59 | Amarande | heh |
| 13:11.05 | Amarande | I still remember the fun in LOTRO with that kind of soup |
| 13:11.21 | Amarande | In Rise of Isengard, they introduced cock-a-leekie soup as a food item |
| 13:11.31 | eidyia | :) |
| 13:11.33 | *** join/#wowhead Coreclown (~Coreclown@91-158-11-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:11.34 | Amarande | Whenever you try to mail it to someone, the subject line comes out all #$&@*#@&*(#@&*( |
| 13:11.46 | eidyia | didn't realize wowinterface was connected to wowhead |
| 13:12.18 | Amarande | ROFL, reminds me of Guild Wars where people would talk about the Damned Clerics (an actual mob type) in the Kryta zones |
| 13:12.35 | Amarande | and it would always come out %#$#ed Cleric to everyone who didn't turn off the profanity filter yet this install (it was on by default) |
| 13:12.51 | Amarande | Or, even more sillily, Captain Quimang, which would be Captain %#$@ang in guild chat to many folks :blink |
| 13:13.06 | *** join/#wowhead Coreclown (~Coreclown@91-158-11-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:13.16 | Amarande | Seriously. I had to Google to figure out why "Quim" was bleeped out. If it's obscure enough that you have to Google it, it probably doesn't need to be on the list LOL |
| 13:13.55 | Coreclown | You programming add-on or UI? :P |
| 13:14.26 | Amarande | (Interestingly, there are NPC conversations that involve that character as well, and THEY TOO will get caught by the profanity filter ... ROFL) |
| 13:16.11 | Djones_ | quim is not briths for anything |
| 13:16.28 | Niadyth | yeah, I've never heard that before either |
| 13:16.31 | Niadyth | i had to google it too |
| 13:17.32 | neutronimity | God I hate beer |
| 13:17.45 | neutronimity | The hops is shit |
| 13:17.56 | neutronimity | Pfui man pfaugh |
| 13:18.24 | Amarande | neutronimity: cheap American beer? |
| 13:18.34 | neutronimity | German Karamalz |
| 13:18.43 | Niadyth | why is american beer so close to having sex in a canoe? |
| 13:18.47 | Niadyth | they're both fucking close to water |
| 13:19.16 | Coreclown | Shouldn't German beers be the best in quality? |
| 13:19.17 | Niadyth | ba-dum-tish |
| 13:19.26 | Coreclown | haha good one |
| 13:26.42 | *** join/#wowhead FireAllianceNX (~fireallia@leonimac.arch.columbia.edu) |
| 13:32.05 | blademeld | the best beers are the ones neutronimity makes in his basement |
| 13:32.24 | blademeld | I think neutronimity is African or something |
| 13:33.33 | eidyia | are battle tags going to be usable starting with 5.0.4 or with Mists launch? |
| 13:34.21 | Amarande | eidyia: 5.0.4, I presume |
| 13:34.46 | Amarande | Battletags are a systems patch thing, I haven't seen anything saying that purchase of MoP will be mandatory to use them |
| 13:35.16 | neutronimity | wouldn't think will be mandatory |
| 13:35.25 | Amarande | Generally, anything that doesn't require players to actually purchase the expansion to get access to, is something that comes in with the pre-patch |
| 13:36.20 | Amarande | Like with 4.0 we got the new talents and abilities, IIRC the reduced cost for Northrend flight, that kind of things before Cata release date |
| 13:36.43 | eidyia | makes sense |
| 13:36.44 | Amarande | OTOH, you couldn't get the Azeroth flight training before Cata hit, because you actually had to buy Cata to get that one |
| 13:37.03 | Amarande | (It led to much confusion in Orgrimmar as I remember ... "WHERE DO I BUY THE FLIGHT MASTER'S LICENCE?" ...) |
| 13:37.31 | *** join/#wowhead WardH (~WardH@ip45-152-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 13:37.44 | Amarande | And this time, the new locations are not something you can just walk to, so we don't get any glitches like the infamous Badlands glitch in pre-Cata |
| 13:38.15 | neutronimity | What was that glitch? |
| 13:38.37 | Amarande | neutronimity: with cata, the breadcrumb to Badlands consists of taking a rocket from EPL to Fuselight-by-the-Sea |
| 13:38.55 | Amarande | unfortunately, if you tried to do the zone in 4.0.3a before Cata release, the rocket would never get there |
| 13:39.02 | WardH | yeah but there´s a breadcrump from SW to EPL to that connects to it |
| 13:39.18 | WardH | so it´s really just a breadcrumb from sw to bl with a big detour :p |
| 13:39.21 | Amarande | because the trajectory would take you over TwiHi, and someone in the security department forgot to consider that when enforcing no-man's-land |
| 13:39.27 | eidyia | the breadcrumbs were a great add with data - but hard to do if you were 80 and heading back to old zones |
| 13:39.54 | WardH | they should make breadcrumbs zone triggered |
| 13:39.56 | eidyia | easily caused you to miss quests in badlands, for example, cause it started in a diff zone |
| 13:40.02 | WardH | you can either pick it up at the source |
| 13:40.06 | WardH | or you get it automatically |
| 13:40.12 | WardH | when you get near the base you turn it in |
| 13:40.18 | Amarande | Well, in that particular case it was particularly bad |
| 13:40.25 | blademeld | oh |
| 13:40.28 | Amarande | because the Badlands quest progression, thus, started at Fuselight-by-the-Sea |
| 13:40.30 | eidyia | really needs to be like the war boards/call to arm things |
| 13:40.41 | Amarande | Which is all the way on the opposite side of the zone from where you would enter it by walking |
| 13:40.42 | blademeld | Amarande: I had someone ask where to buy flight master license in sw 3 weeks ago |
| 13:41.10 | *** join/#wowhead g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 13:41.22 | Amarande | so you'd end up either having to swim all the way up (not down, that's TwiHi) the coast there, or you'd have to walk in and then trek all the way across the zone to reach your first quest hub |
| 13:41.39 | Amarande | blademeld: well, the thing back then was, people kept asking where to buy something that wasn't even available yet :) |
| 13:41.52 | neutronimity | Trek, damn, where is the exploration! |
| 13:42.20 | blademeld | Amarande: the guy kept saying that it couldn't buy it from the riding trainer, so I kept telling him to go back to the trainer |
| 13:42.26 | Amarande | I think it had something to do with that some NPC dialogues mentioned the flight master's licence as soon as the Shattering happened, but the licence itself wasn't available till Cata came out and you purchased it |
| 13:42.29 | blademeld | I didn't consider he might not have cata |
| 13:42.34 | eidyia | blademeld: probably a filter issue |
| 13:42.41 | neutronimity | Filter, yeah. |
| 13:42.44 | blademeld | eidyia: nada, fresh 60 |
| 13:42.47 | Amarande | blademeld: also the fact that only the SW riding trainer has the flight training, which is silly |
| 13:43.04 | Amarande | the IF, Darnassus, and Exodar ones for some reason only train ground riding. not really sure why |
| 13:43.15 | Amarande | especially since pretty much every other trainer in the game for, well, anything, now trains all levels of it |
| 13:43.23 | eidyia | the filters mess everyone up all over the place with training |
| 13:44.28 | Amarande | It kind of punishes non-human, non-dwarf characters pretty severely if you follow a natural questing progression, too :| |
| 13:44.36 | neutronimity | I wonder what Darnassus would look like if it was as full as a full Stormwind city. |
| 13:44.46 | eidyia | same with Silvermooon |
| 13:45.01 | eidyia | place is easy for Ally to raid any given day - if you can handle running in (no flight there) |
| 13:45.05 | blademeld | there's two AH hubs in SW, only 1 in darn |
| 13:45.16 | Amarande | eidyia: and yet, against single Ally characters, is like Fort Knox |
| 13:45.17 | blademeld | it would suck for darn to be full |
| 13:45.44 | Amarande | It's still pretty damn challenging (unless you're really geared up in PvP or tanking gear) to do a complete Explore Eastern Kingdoms on an Alliance character without any deaths :) |
| 13:45.44 | eidyia | amarande: yah - that's the case with most places though for single toons raiding a cap city on foot. |
| 13:45.44 | neutronimity | Did it suck for SW when it had only one? :p |
| 13:45.56 | blademeld | neutronimity: yeah |
| 13:46.03 | Amarande | eidyia: I mean, even for something as simple as getting the explore credit |
| 13:46.04 | neutronimity | Ah well. |
| 13:46.17 | blademeld | but back when sw had 1, if was busier |
| 13:46.18 | Amarande | unless you're a tank or re-gear totally for stamina, you're not going to survive completing Eversong Woods |
| 13:46.21 | blademeld | iirc |
| 13:46.31 | eidyia | amarande: yah - didn't think of that. gotta just run in as far as you can, release, then rez farther inside |
| 13:46.59 | blademeld | Amarande: why is exploring hard? I did it as a 70 something paladin |
| 13:47.06 | neutronimity | IF is dead empty, only 4x85 and 3 other lower levels. |
| 13:47.06 | eidyia | same with horde who want to fish in iron forge - it's a few deaths to get to the pools |
| 13:47.26 | Amarande | blademeld: because of the way that the Silvermoon City entrance is built, and the fact that you cannot fly in |
| 13:47.43 | eidyia | can ally take the portal from UC? |
| 13:47.45 | Amarande | you can't get credit without attracting about 4532478273892789543 guards and going down like a sack of potatoes |
| 13:47.52 | blademeld | Amarande: ah, right I had bubblehearth |
| 13:47.54 | neutronimity | No they can't. |
| 13:47.57 | eidyia | ah |
| 13:48.11 | eidyia | i don't play alliance (personal reasons) |
| 13:48.20 | neutronimity | Friends? |
| 13:48.26 | blademeld | what is friends? |
| 13:48.29 | eidyia | no - i have standards :-D |
| 13:48.30 | Amarande | Meanwhile, Horde have no similar challenge. |
| 13:48.52 | Amarande | IF can be entered via flight to get exploration credit and you have a pretty good chance of swooping in to get credit and getting out before you get swarmed |
| 13:48.53 | eidyia | i've been tempted at times to see what life would be like as a dwarf |
| 13:48.54 | parall4x | Kind of funny how the Orb of Translocation is at ground level and very exposed yet only Horde characters can use it. |
| 13:48.58 | blademeld | Amarande: they do, it's called being ugly or BE for males |
| 13:49.24 | Amarande | Exodar is the corresponding situation to Silvermoon, but the way zones are assigned in Azuremyst, it's stupidly easy to get Exodar's explore credit without even seeing a draenei guard |
| 13:49.40 | eidyia | that it is |
| 13:49.59 | Amarande | Whereas you actually have to get within the walls of Silvermoon to be credited with it (I did try squeezing as close as possible up to all the walls, without success) |
| 13:50.29 | JunkHead | Word. |
| 13:50.40 | JunkHead | Taking some more time off at the end of the month. |
| 13:51.44 | eidyia | anyone try seeing if you can fly in silvermoon on beta? |
| 13:52.17 | Amarande | Indeed, I think Horde in general have it far easier on achievements since Cata :| |
| 13:52.34 | eidyia | amarande: i wouldn't say that |
| 13:52.37 | Amarande | between the Silvermoon thing, and between the relative guardedness of SW vs. Orgrimmar, in particular |
| 13:52.43 | Amarande | eidyia: consider, say, The Fishing Diplomat |
| 13:52.54 | Amarande | Horde just need to find one of the many quiet spots where there is water considered "in Stormwind" to get it |
| 13:53.07 | Amarande | while Alliance are lucky if they get a cast off before being mobbed with the new Orgrimmar |
| 13:53.07 | eidyia | disagree - org has plenty of easy fishing spots people can fly in and squat at |
| 13:53.19 | Amarande | similarly, it's a lot easier to reach Stormwind Stockades in one piece than it is to get to RFC if you missed it while leveling |
| 13:53.23 | eidyia | IF is a pain to get to - and i always get ganked |
| 13:53.34 | eidyia | i'll give ya RFC |
| 13:53.43 | eidyia | but fishing in org is cake - you're going to the wrong place, that's all |
| 13:53.44 | Amarande | heh, on my server (and I'm Alliance, so I know this well) IF is pretty much dead |
| 13:53.55 | parall4x | Yeah, I find that the new Orgrimmar is fairly friendly to Alliance fishers. There's a waterfall in the Valley of Honor that some of them hide under and typicallly go unnoticed. |
| 13:53.57 | eidyia | yah - but still a pain to get too, and a long walk for a rez |
| 13:54.05 | Amarande | people go to IF to get the cooking and fishing achievements, and that's pretty much it |
| 13:54.12 | Amarande | well, that and it's the best place to power-train cooking |
| 13:54.33 | Amarande | due to the fact that you can buy meat from the AH and cook it as soon as you pick up your mail, due to the dwarven brazier next to the mailbox being considered a valid cooking fire :) |
| 13:55.33 | blademeld | lol |
| 13:55.40 | Djones_ | I like how you think it's hard to get achievements |
| 13:55.56 | parall4x | The opposite of the inexplicable lack of a forge in the blacksmith's shop in the Valley of Strength in Orgrimmar. |
| 13:55.58 | Djones_ | The exploration achievements are a piece of piss for both sides. |
| 13:56.16 | Amarande | parall4x: isn't there a forge right outside in that area with the anvils and such? |
| 13:56.29 | parall4x | In the Valley of Honor, yes. |
| 13:56.34 | parall4x | Not the Valley of Strength shop. |
| 13:56.44 | Amarande | been a while since I played my horde toons and I usually try to base in UC because I find it a bear to find stuff in Org a lot of the time since Cata |
| 13:56.58 | *** join/#wowhead hylje (leohonka@melkki.cs.helsinki.fi) |
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| 13:57.11 | blademeld | Djones_: I like how you quantify piss in solid object-form |
| 13:57.23 | Djones_ | blademeld, of course. |
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| 13:57.46 | Amarande | I guess this is Horde's revenge for the achievements tending to favour Alliance back in LK though |
| 13:58.03 | Djones_ | The idea that achievements favour anyone is ludicrous. |
| 13:58.05 | Amarande | when LK was new, achievements hated Horde, hard. |
| 13:58.22 | blademeld | Djones_: there was one case |
| 13:58.24 | parall4x | Djones_, it's not ludicrous that achievements might incidentally favor a particular faction. |
| 13:58.24 | Amarande | Djones: some of them are easier depending on NPC placement/capital city setup |
| 13:58.29 | blademeld | the mounts in early cata |
| 13:58.40 | Djones_ | parall4x, the idea that it makes any real difference |
| 13:58.44 | Djones_ | Okay let me rephrase. |
| 13:58.45 | fewyn | [09:58:36] [85:Fewyn] has earned the achievement [Rock Lover]! |
| 13:58.48 | fewyn | hurrah |
| 13:58.50 | Djones_ | The idea that achievements are hard : Ludicrous. |
| 13:58.53 | g0urra | well when it comes to rep achievements humans are imba |
| 13:58.56 | blademeld | fewyn: make love to rocks? |
| 13:58.59 | Amarande | blademeld: mounts in early LK, I thought it was, because Tauren were locked out of so many mounts |
| 13:59.01 | blademeld | g0urra: idd |
| 13:59.23 | blademeld | Amarande: that too, but I was referring the worgen mount complaint |
| 13:59.52 | Amarande | In fact, I'm pretty sure one of the mount achievements was actually nerfed when it came out with LK because of tauren |
| 14:00.04 | blademeld | could be |
| 14:00.07 | Djones_ | And tauren had problems because? |
| 14:00.10 | Amarande | since it was decided that it wasn't quite fair to make a particular race have to spend hundreds of dollars in real world money to be able to achieve it |
| 14:00.20 | Amarande | Djones: it used to be that tauren couldn't ride most of the Horde faction mounts |
| 14:00.33 | Djones_ | Right. That's hardly a horde issue though, is it? |
| 14:00.37 | Amarande | so you lost about 15 mounts from the max possible compared to other races |
| 14:01.01 | Amarande | too much to make up without having to buy cruelly expensive TCG mounts |
| 14:01.04 | Djones_ | That's a class issue. |
| 14:01.17 | blademeld | no |
| 14:01.18 | blademeld | race |
| 14:01.20 | blademeld | not class |
| 14:01.22 | Djones_ | Herp, yes. |
| 14:01.25 | Djones_ | That's what I meant. |
| 14:01.30 | blademeld | also, tits |
| 14:01.35 | Djones_ | But again |
| 14:01.38 | Djones_ | that's not a matter of difficulty |
| 14:01.41 | Djones_ | rather, impossibility |
| 14:01.52 | Djones_ | The same way for instance, you can't get the insane without access to a rogue. |
| 14:02.30 | blademeld | sure you can, buy out the blizz stocks to about 20% and ask them to change it |
| 14:04.40 | Amarande | Djones: or that rogues and overly rich players have a *huge* advantage in the most recent X-recipes cooking achievement? |
| 14:05.05 | parall4x | Overly rich? Now now, Mr. 99%. |
| 14:05.43 | blademeld | had 2k by level 20 or 30 on a fresh realm |
| 14:05.47 | blademeld | gold is hurd |
| 14:05.51 | blademeld | hurr durr |
| 14:06.48 | parall4x | I wonder if gold will inflate much in Mists. |
| 14:06.56 | blademeld | meh |
| 14:07.02 | blademeld | doubt it will change much |
| 14:07.06 | blademeld | even with the blackmarket |
| 14:07.14 | parall4x | It is kind of consistent from xpack to xpack, isn't it? |
| 14:07.38 | blademeld | except from Vanilla to tBC iirc |
| 14:08.12 | Amarande | parall4x: how many players really have 200000+g and are willing to blow it all with an xpack coming up this soon? |
| 14:08.13 | parall4x | I was but a lowly level 40 at that time and was sheltered from the concerns of the in-game economy. Couldn't make myself play enough to hit the level cap in Vanilla :3 |
| 14:08.27 | Amarande | I'm talking about "rich enough to afford to buy Dirge's when it comes up on the AH" overly rich |
| 14:09.16 | Amarande | Thing being that if you're a non-rogue and do not have access to Dirge's, it's actually your guild membership that determines if you can get that achievement. |
| 14:09.27 | parall4x | Well, they had to put in some form of effort to achieve those funds. Those funds give them the flexibility to cheese through stuff like material-dependent achievements because of previous effort rendered elsewhere, I suppose. |
| 14:09.50 | Amarande | parall4x: yeah, but you'd want to have a good bit more than 200k on hand if you wanted to buy Dirge's now, though |
| 14:10.34 | Amarande | you don't want to be broke at the beginning of an expansion, even if Dirge's is a limited-ever deal :) |
| 14:11.42 | parall4x | I've got 30k on my only max-level character, but I won't be rushing to PvE end game content, so I'm not sure it'll matter for me. |
| 14:11.55 | Amarande | ah, if you're not rushing, it won't matter much |
| 14:12.10 | Amarande | if you are trying to get to raids quickly, it means the world, because then you have to spend obscene amounts of money on the AH to buy early-on crafted gear |
| 14:12.24 | parall4x | I intend to just enjoy the leveling experience and new story content at my own pace and then unsub again until new content is release. |
| 14:12.26 | parall4x | *released |
| 14:17.02 | blademeld | Amarande: I believe me and about a dozen or more people in this channel have that kind of gold ot blow |
| 14:17.32 | blademeld | btw, what's a dirge's mount? |
| 14:22.07 | Djones_ | blademeld, 450k pocket change i think. |
| 14:22.16 | Djones_ | if I sold all my mats. |
| 14:22.33 | blademeld | yeah |
| 14:22.34 | Niadyth | blademeld : http://www.wowhead.com/item=21025/recipe-dirges-kickin-chimaerok-chops |
| 14:22.36 | blademeld | sounds about right |
| 14:24.17 | blademeld | huh |
| 14:25.05 | blademeld | fortunately, I don't give two damns about cooking recipes or ahievements |
| 14:30.26 | Amarande | anyway, the reason that's important is because of this: |
| 14:30.31 | Amarande | the highest cooking achievement is for 200 recipes known |
| 14:30.43 | Amarande | There are currently only 202 recipes in the game, and four of them have special conditions on them |
| 14:30.45 | eidyia | 200 recipes was tough to get |
| 14:31.11 | Amarande | Thistle Tea requires you to be a rogue (they even revoked it retroactively around cata release from folks who had obtained it on non-rogues via legitimate-at-the-time means) |
| 14:31.32 | Amarande | Dirge's requires you to spend 200k gold or so, as only a limited number are available per server at all now |
| 14:31.34 | eidyia | it'll be cake with Mists |
| 14:31.48 | Amarande | And two of them require you be in a guild who's gotten specific Guild Achievements |
| 14:32.05 | eidyia | my theory with most achievements: wait until the next xpac - life will be easier |
| 14:32.15 | Amarande | We only just recently got Set the Oven to Cataclysmic in ours, and we're nowhere near 10,000 fish from pools yet |
| 14:32.23 | Amarande | which is surprising, as I'd think 10,000 fish from pools would be cake |
| 14:32.44 | blademeld | it is cake |
| 14:32.46 | Amarande | (hell, a single player quite likely gets that while they're trying to do the damned Mr. Pinchy's Magical Crawdad Box achievement, which I still haven't been masochistic enough to attempt :P) |
| 14:33.17 | Amarande | not to mention the fishing skill system now strongly encourages people to fish from pools exclusively unless searching for something specific that you can't get from one :) |
| 14:33.28 | Djones_ | erm what |
| 14:33.30 | Djones_ | No it doesn't. |
| 14:33.33 | blademeld | ^^ |
| 14:33.40 | Amarande | Djones: when fishing from pools, fishing skill is irrelevant |
| 14:33.40 | eidyia | ^^ |
| 14:33.45 | Djones_ | So? |
| 14:33.51 | Djones_ | it's always been irrelevant. |
| 14:33.58 | blademeld | ^^ |
| 14:34.00 | Amarande | Which becomes more and more relevant with how high the no-junk skill levels are for higher level areas. |
| 14:34.05 | Djones_ | No. It doesn't. |
| 14:34.08 | eidyia | you can't fish a cata pool and get a cata fish with fishing lvl 1 |
| 14:34.22 | Djones_ | Don't be level 1 fishing |
| 14:34.26 | Djones_ | fishing from pools is so incredibly inefficient. |
| 14:34.29 | blademeld | you guys are being silly |
| 14:34.29 | Amarande | eidyia: I'm pretty sure you can, actually :) |
| 14:34.37 | eidyia | then that's a huge bug amarande |
| 14:34.44 | Djones_ | eidyia, nope. Working as intended. |
| 14:34.49 | eidyia | what?!? |
| 14:34.51 | Djones_ | Doesn't matter. It takes you LESS time to level to 525 fishing |
| 14:35.08 | eidyia | that's just silly |
| 14:35.09 | Amarande | eidyia: pools are guaranteed to provide their fish/crates/etc. regardless of fishing skill level |
| 14:35.11 | eidyia | i should just quit now |
| 14:35.19 | Djones_ | Basically, the time wasted on pools levelling fishing from 1-525 is a factor of 10's greater than if you just levelled in orgrimmar from 1-525 and then just fished where you want. |
| 14:35.35 | Djones_ | My point of rerefence : 6 toons with fishing 525 |
| 14:35.42 | Amarande | They actually had to nerf an exploit at one point because of that, so it's clearly intended that the pools do so |
| 14:36.03 | eidyia | agree with Djones_ |
| 14:36.04 | Djones_ | Amarande, you have it so backwards it's kind of funny. |
| 14:36.08 | eidyia | pool travel blows |
| 14:36.13 | Djones_ | You only ever fish from pools when you DO -want- something specific. |
| 14:36.39 | Amarande | People looking for Dalaran fountain coins would go pick up the DEHTA animal poacher debuff from Borean and then hearth and take a dip in the fountain |
| 14:36.55 | Amarande | so that the fountain would be considered a pool and they didn't need the obscenely high fishing level that thing needs |
| 14:37.02 | Djones_ | No, they didn't. |
| 14:37.04 | Djones_ | As that is retarded. |
| 14:37.16 | Djones_ | Because that round trip is at least 3 minutes |
| 14:37.22 | Djones_ | to do 100 casts is 5 hours. |
| 14:37.25 | Djones_ | of wasted time |
| 14:37.30 | Djones_ | it took less than that to max fishing in wrath. |
| 14:37.37 | Djones_ | Considering you need THOUSANDS of casts to do that achieve. |
| 14:37.43 | Amarande | Djones: they might have done with mages, then |
| 14:37.50 | Djones_ | so the roundtrip is a mere 2 minutes |
| 14:37.52 | Djones_ | instead fo 3. |
| 14:37.55 | Amarande | since then you could hearth to Borean to get the debuff and then teleport back to Dala |
| 14:38.05 | Amarande | and it's better for your sanity that you don't try to fish all the coins at once |
| 14:38.07 | Djones_ | hell, if it was ONLY a minute |
| 14:38.18 | Djones_ | Then you're still talking Hour 40 for every 100 casts |
| 14:38.25 | Djones_ | you do 1-300 in an hour |
| 14:38.29 | eidyia | new topic: archaeology : digging through the past, discuss |
| 14:38.46 | Djones_ | THe only people who did that have NO concept of how time works |
| 14:38.56 | Djones_ | I.e stupid people. Because it is so grossfully stupidly inefficient. |
| 14:39.05 | Torhal | Time is an imaginary invention of humans. |
| 14:39.08 | Torhal | :D |
| 14:39.14 | Djones_ | That's actually the stupidist idea i've heard yet. |
| 14:39.24 | blademeld | not really |
| 14:39.25 | Amarande | Djones: this depends on if you want to level fishing as fast as possible or if you simply want to only fish when you're going to get something that doesn't suck |
| 14:39.25 | Djones_ | Again backwards. People used to grind to max fishing in that pool because it was dead easy |
| 14:39.27 | Torhal | Yay, I ruffled MOAR feathers. |
| 14:39.32 | g0urra | Time is a dimension along which events are ordered from the past through the present into the future |
| 14:39.40 | g0urra | duh. |
| 14:40.20 | Djones_ | Amarande, no, nobody in their right mind would waste that much time |
| 14:40.31 | Amarande | In LK it was probably different |
| 14:40.46 | Amarande | Pre-cata it took a ridiculous number of casts to gain a fishing skill point past 350 or so |
| 14:40.59 | Amarande | whereas now if Fishing Buddy is accurate it's an average of 4 casts even at high fishing levels |
| 14:41.05 | Amarande | used to be 10+ per point |
| 14:41.56 | Amarande | On top of that, Dalaran's fountain was horribly hard to get anything in. You needed at least 75 bonus points to stop getting greys even IF you had max fishing then. |
| 14:42.24 | Stormscape | 75 bonus points isn't that hard. |
| 14:43.35 | Djones_ | Amarande, you really don't understand how time efficiency works. |
| 14:43.39 | eidyia | so - i step away for a few mins and we're still talking about fishing? |
| 14:43.42 | Djones_ | in the time it would take to get that debuff |
| 14:43.55 | Djones_ | You would have gotten more coins at level 1 |
| 14:44.01 | Djones_ | since you could still get those regardless of skill. |
| 14:44.35 | Amarande | Fishing trivia: It's actually impossible apparently to get a 100% fish catch rate in the current hardest zone, without having won at least one competitive fishing contest. |
| 14:45.00 | Amarande | It's only going to get worse in MoP, since El's lists a place that needs a whopping *825* fishing skill to not get junk. |
| 14:45.14 | eidyia | really? 825? |
| 14:45.16 | Stormscape | Solution: Stop being a casual fisherman |
| 14:45.21 | Amarande | eidyia: yup, Vale of Eternal Blossoms |
| 14:45.24 | eidyia | you can get like ~100 bonus points? |
| 14:45.29 | Stormscape | Well over 100 |
| 14:45.30 | eidyia | between pole, hat, gloves |
| 14:45.35 | Amarande | http://www.elsanglin.com/skill_and_location.html |
| 14:45.46 | Amarande | eidyia: the maximum you can get without the contest exclusive gear is +145, if I haven't miscalculated |
| 14:46.14 | Stormscape | lures guv |
| 14:46.18 | eidyia | ah |
| 14:46.22 | eidyia | forgot lures |
| 14:46.23 | Amarande | 100 from lure, 30 from pole, 5 from daily quest hat, 5 from eternium fishing line (by getting lucky on the NR fishing dailies, if you don't win a contest), 5 from the Angler enchant |
| 14:46.25 | eidyia | i was thinking gear |
| 14:46.37 | Stormscape | No |
| 14:46.39 | Stormscape | 150 from lure |
| 14:46.43 | Stormscape | stop being casual, I just told you |
| 14:46.45 | Amarande | An additional 25 points are possible, but only via the Arcanite fishing pole and the boots from the Kalu'ak derby |
| 14:47.20 | Amarande | Stormscape: ugh, now I feel like a real idiot |
| 14:47.24 | Amarande | indeed, a double idiot |
| 14:47.28 | Amarande | because I'm an engineer :| |
| 14:47.29 | blademeld | Stormscape: I'm loling |
| 14:47.36 | Stormscape | HARDCORE FISHING |
| 14:47.39 | Stormscape | GET ON MY LEVEL WOWHEAD |
| 14:48.00 | Amarande | Heh, still won't get you 100% fishing rate in Vale in MoP, though |
| 14:48.00 | blademeld | f that Stormscape, let's go salmon fishing irl |
| 14:48.26 | Amarande | 600 fishing + 150 lure + 30 pole + 5 line + 5 enchant + 5 hat -> 795 fishing, you need 825 to not get junk, so you will still get a lot of junk |
| 14:48.36 | Amarande | (in fact, even with the contest gear, you still only get to 820. Sorrow!) |
| 14:48.54 | Stormscape | That's not "a lot" of junk |
| 14:48.58 | Stormscape | That's a 7% junk rate |
| 14:49.16 | Djones_ | Amarande, except that doesn't exist. |
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| 14:49.51 | Djones_ | because you're completely ignoring pool travel time. |
| 14:50.11 | Amarande | Djones: we're talking about MoP, where the hardest fishing area is 150 points higher than Cata's, but you'll only be able to get an extra 75 points of skill, unless there's a new lure in MoP I don't know about |
| 14:50.33 | Amarande | last time I looked at engineering in MoP it was far from polished, hell the engi ranged weapons were showing ilvl 200 stats that were worse than the cata ones |
| 14:50.44 | Djones_ | Amarande, and your'e STILL ignoring pool travel time |
| 14:50.54 | Djones_ | which results in less than HALF the amount of casts per minute |
| 14:51.03 | Amarande | that's probably because I haven't made a concerted attempt to actually sit and grind fishing lately |
| 14:51.35 | Amarande | I do keep my fishing pole on me all the time, but apart from the amount of time you have to sit there and fish for dailies (especially outland), pretty much I just grab pools as I pass them while questing |
| 14:51.46 | Djones_ | And it's inefficient and poor. |
| 14:52.25 | blademeld | Djones_: you're not going to get through to him? |
| 14:52.37 | Amarande | yeah, I didn't quite think of pool travel time |
| 14:52.45 | Amarande | because I wasn't thinking of the "concerted attempt to grind fishing" angler |
| 14:52.54 | Amarande | I was thinking more of the casual angler that you'll find in more guilds |
| 14:53.06 | Amarande | and if you're not actively grinding fishing, you're better off only stopping to fish when you meet a pool |
| 14:53.15 | eidyia | Stormscape suggests not going casual and being a pro |
| 14:53.20 | Djones_ | So don't make claims that pool fishing is better |
| 14:53.23 | Djones_ | Because it's not |
| 14:53.50 | Stormscape | The only reason to fish in pools is if you need a fish that has a low open water drop rate |
| 14:54.20 | eidyia | only reason i fish pools is for my stupid turtle |
| 14:55.06 | Amarande | OTOH, 10,000 does seem even a little low for that one guild achievement, because I get the feeling I might finish that guild achievement out solo when I get around to actively trying for Mr. Pinchy :P |
| 14:55.26 | Amarande | But this is because they probably hired the guy who designed the Adamantite Armour acquisition in Final Fantasy IV to do the Mr. Pinchy bit. Heh. |
| 14:57.41 | *** join/#wowhead berylium (9w3aQeReuT@irc-3.usealice.org) |
| 14:58.16 | eidyia | hold the boat |
| 14:58.27 | eidyia | However most meta-achievements, like Accomplished Angler, do not now require all constituent achievements on the same character. |
| 14:58.31 | Amarande | (Adamantite Armour basically required that you get a 1/64 drop item from a mob that itself was a 1/64 chance to encounter in the one tiny area that you can find it. :P) |
| 14:58.33 | eidyia | from El's |
| 14:58.42 | eidyia | this mean that you can get some criteria on one toon, and some on another? |
| 14:58.51 | eidyia | i thought that wasn't the way it was meant to work |
| 14:58.55 | Amarande | eidyia: it depends |
| 14:59.08 | Amarande | if the criteria are straight criteria (like a normal checklist or progress bar), they have to be all on one toon |
| 14:59.13 | Amarande | however, because achievements share between characters |
| 14:59.20 | eidyia | gotcha |
| 14:59.26 | Amarande | if the criteria are themselves achievements, they can be spread between toons because the achievements will spread |
| 14:59.30 | eidyia | checklist = 1 toon, other achieves = multi-toon |
| 14:59.42 | eidyia | will all get the mount then? |
| 14:59.50 | eidyia | like long strange trip |
| 14:59.54 | Amarande | Mounts are cross-toon too, so yeah |
| 15:00.06 | eidyia | hum... |
| 15:00.10 | eidyia | this coming with 5.0.4? |
| 15:00.17 | Amarande | yup, that's what I hear |
| 15:00.20 | eidyia | so |
| 15:00.36 | eidyia | my 85 with long strange trip will now give master riding to all my toons in like 10 days? |
| 15:00.47 | eidyia | that, while odd, is enjoyable. yet doesn't seem right |
| 15:00.51 | Amarande | e.g., you can spread out Loremaster among other toons (because the zone criteria are achievements), and that's actually a good idea in a way (it means you don't use up all the content on one toon in order to get a loremaster title) |
| 15:01.00 | Amarande | OTOH, if you want Seeker you have to do all 3,000 quests on one toon |
| 15:02.18 | Amarande | Actually, the Loremaster thing is also useful tactically in another fashion. Let a toon you don't care about reps for get the Zangar quest achievement for you while leveling up, for instance. :) |
| 15:02.50 | Amarande | (As it is generally a bad idea if you want exalted with CenEx to touch any of the Zangarmarsh quests - hell, you might even want to skip Borean Tundra initially - until you are ... Revered, I think it is) |
| 15:03.42 | Amarande | eidyia: it's not clear how it's supposed to work with Master Riding |
| 15:03.51 | Amarande | or even if the Master Riding for Long Strange Trip is still going to be on in MoP |
| 15:04.17 | eidyia | way it looks now is no master riding - but just more curious pre-Mists and post-5.0.4 |
| 15:04.31 | Amarande | especially since it doesn't just affect that IIRC, it also affects arena PvP (I seem to recall reading that the Gladiator title mount gives Master Riding too) |
| 15:05.37 | Amarande | It's probably even more reasonable for Gladiator mounts to do it than the holiday ones, too |
| 15:05.58 | Djones_ | All 310% mounts granted master riding |
| 15:06.03 | Djones_ | if you had a 310% mount, BEFORE master riding |
| 15:06.30 | Amarande | If you're a Gladiator, chances are you're spending most of your game time in arena, and you can't buy riding training with PvP points |
| 15:06.41 | Djones_ | i lol'd |
| 15:06.43 | Amarande | What gold you do get is probably going away on enchants for your PvP gear |
| 15:06.55 | Djones_ | gladiators are amongst the most wealthy players there are |
| 15:06.56 | eidyia | ^ |
| 15:07.08 | eidyia | how do pvp'ers get money? |
| 15:07.46 | eidyia | serious question here - i don't really php |
| 15:07.51 | eidyia | *pvp |
| 15:07.56 | Djones_ | most glads play 10 hours a day |
| 15:08.07 | Amarande | Yeah, but most glads probably play most of those hours in PvP environments |
| 15:08.08 | Djones_ | tjey do the same as the rest of us |
| 15:08.14 | Djones_ | Not really. |
| 15:08.17 | Amarande | and you don't get money in PvP, you get honour and conquest |
| 15:08.21 | Amarande | and arena points |
| 15:08.23 | eidyia | right |
| 15:08.28 | eidyia | so - where do they get their gold? |
| 15:08.32 | Djones_ | glads do less real pvp then most pvpers |
| 15:08.37 | Djones_ | you get to glad and then stop |
| 15:08.47 | Coreclown | if you mean pure pvp'er, like one who can't afford pve content after leveling up |
| 15:08.53 | Amarande | The only way I would see PvP granting a lot of gold is if you're using all those surplus points after gearing up to buy gear just to DE it and sell the shards |
| 15:08.56 | Coreclown | dunno about those |
| 15:09.01 | Amarande | That, actually, I could understand riches from, though |
| 15:09.12 | Djones_ | Amarande, for once, could you make a SUBSTANTIATED claim? |
| 15:09.19 | Amarande | especially since the big PvP servers tend to have enormous populations in general (especially US-Illidan) which gives a healthy economy for selling stuff on the AH |
| 15:10.12 | Amarande | actually, Djones, yeah that didn't quite occur to me, the you get to glad and then stop thing |
| 15:10.22 | Djones_ | Yes, because you never think before you say -anything |
| 15:10.39 | Amarande | once you get to be, or are near being the top dog in arena ratings, I recall it gets harder and harder to actually do arena |
| 15:10.40 | Djones_ | You're almost as bad as blacknet |
| 15:10.40 | Djones_ | Wait |
| 15:10.42 | Djones_ | Are you blacknet? |
| 15:10.42 | Niadyth | *popcorn* |
| 15:10.47 | Amarande | who's blacknet? |
| 15:10.57 | Amarande | it's why the whole "win trading" thing exploded on the forums at one point |
| 15:10.59 | Djones_ | That's just what a pretend not really blacknet would say. |
| 15:11.47 | Amarande | Top rated arena teams got frustrated because, due to the rating-based matchups in queue, they would get very long queues (as the other teams in queue would consistently get matched with lower-rated teams closer to their own rating, rather than with the top team) |
| 15:11.58 | Amarande | So they would try to arrange for other top rated teams to be on at the same time so they'd ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO |
| 15:12.16 | Amarande | and for their trouble, all they got was their gear taken away and 72 hour bans for "win trading violations" |
| 15:13.14 | Amarande | Yup. Blizzard has frequently had phases where the integrity of Arena PvP is considered their top priority, even more than such niceties as the game actually being fun for players of all tiers |
| 15:13.51 | Amarande | Sometimes even making balance changes that kick dedicated PvE players in the ass simply in order to make sure something's not too off the rocker in arena. :| |
| 15:15.17 | Amarande | heh |
| 15:15.28 | Amarande | You know what's laughable about the whole "win trading" thing? |
| 15:16.00 | Amarande | In the game that originally gave us the rating system that Blizzard now uses for arena, "top rated players playing mostly only one another during arranged matches" is pretty much the *norm* |
| 15:16.22 | Djones_ | if only it made sense for top level players to play those at their level |
| 15:16.22 | *** join/#wowhead Kamikaze281 (~Kamikaze2@p4FFF687C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:16.23 | Djones_ | or something |
| 15:16.41 | Amarande | Djones: the problem wasn't quite that |
| 15:16.52 | Amarande | it was that top rated players *wanted to* play those at their level (and the queuing system pushed them to do so) |
| 15:17.03 | Amarande | however, any attempt to try to get the top rated players online at the same time as one another (so that they could do so) |
| 15:17.13 | Amarande | was given a 72 hour ban and gear revocation by Blizzard as a win-trading TOS violation |
| 15:17.37 | Amarande | so Blizzard was basically saying "well, you got to the top! now your reward is to barely ever get to play unless you're lucky, or we'll slap you!" |
| 15:17.39 | hylje | haha oh wow |
| 15:18.00 | RealDjones | Amarande: simple solution, make a seo |
| 15:18.07 | RealDjones | secon character |
| 15:18.13 | RealDjones | lose on purpose |
| 15:18.19 | Amarande | heh, that really would be win trading :P |
| 15:18.31 | Amarande | but the laughable thing is this |
| 15:18.46 | Amarande | The rating system used in arena is Elo. We get the Elo rating system from Chess. |
| 15:19.14 | Amarande | And, in Chess, that's actually the norm. When you become a grandmaster, you tend to stop playing in ordinary tournaments and mainly only play in grandmaster-exclusive invitational tournaments |
| 15:19.21 | Amarande | which ... is kind of the same thing as the top rated WoW players were doing |
| 15:19.31 | Amarande | except that in chess, it's considered the norm, while in WoW, it's considered a TOS violation |
| 15:19.54 | hylje | cheese |
| 15:20.36 | Amarande | The paranoid part of me wonders if it's Legal pressuring for that interpretation (after all, the TOS is a creature of the Legal department, generally, too) |
| 15:20.46 | Torhal | Good lord, you can talk about absolutely nothing for hours. |
| 15:20.47 | Amarande | specifically, because Blizzard runs arena tournaments, which take real cash entry fees and give real cash prizes |
| 15:21.01 | Niadyth | bacon |
| 15:21.04 | Amarande | which makes me wonder if they feel under pressure to make sure that arena is especially well-tuned, so that they're not accused of being a casino on net |
| 15:22.20 | Amarande | given that the legalities of e-sport cash prizes (i.e., under what circumstances they're okay and what circumstances they're considered to make you the next PokerStars) are doubtless a pretty young thing, and not being a lawyer I'm not sure how many test cases there have been at all, I have to wonder how much that matters. |
| 15:24.30 | Amarande | It does seem like there's the possibility that if there was seen as being too much of an element of chance in arena, though, or an environment where Blizzard could be accused of condoning fixing, that Little Spoiled Rich Timmy might have his parents drag Blizzard into court after losing in the tournament. :P |
| 15:25.08 | Niadyth | I have to stop you there |
| 15:25.24 | Niadyth | no parent in the world is irresponsible to do that |
| 15:25.26 | Amarande | And it's not like US authorities in particular have had a particularly loving eye towards online games with a real money element, and often not towards video games in general. I should know, being that I'm from Connecticut where we've had one of the most anti-gaming Senators for years. *sigh* |
| 15:25.28 | Niadyth | *enough |
| 15:25.39 | Amarande | Niadyth: are you from the United States? |
| 15:25.54 | Niadyth | no, but neither do I hold Americans in such contempt |
| 15:26.11 | Amarande | sadly, it's something that us Americans only know too well that all too many Americans will stoop to the level of ridiculous lawsuits |
| 15:26.30 | Amarande | and all too many juries will vote in their favour and grant them multi-million dollar awards |
| 15:27.20 | Niadyth | if you say so |
| 15:28.01 | Amarande | This is the country where if you buy a cup of hot coffee and keep it in an irresponsibly dangerous area and burn yourself badly when it spills in your car, you can successfully get the fast food company that sold you the cup of coffee to pay you lottery-jackpot levels of cash. :P |
| 15:28.12 | Amarande | Because, somehow, they DIDN'T WARN YOU ENOUGH THAT IT WAS HOT. |
| 15:28.27 | Niadyth | if you say so |
| 15:28.46 | *** join/#wowhead Coreclown (~Coreclown@91-158-11-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:29.51 | Amarande | This is the country where it becomes more and more expensive to see a doctor because all too often when a sick person goes south after seeing the doctor, the family does all they can to hunt for a reason to claim the doctor was at fault so that they can get large amounts of cash as compensation for their loss, so the doctors are forced to buy horrendously expensive malpractise insurance to |
| 15:29.52 | Amarande | feel reasonably able to see patients (or to even get hired in many institutions). |
| 15:29.57 | Niadyth | if you say so |
| 15:30.35 | Amarande | many U.S. doctors (especially in some fields like obstetrics, which is generally the worst in that regard) don't make six digits out of greed, they make it out of need, because the *malpractise insurance premium itself* costs six digits a year |
| 15:30.54 | Niadyth | if you say so |
| 15:32.30 | Stormscape | that feel when I bought and milled the wrong herb |
| 15:32.32 | Stormscape | feelsbadman |
| 15:33.24 | Amarande | Storm: you buy herbs off the AH for your scribe? |
| 15:33.32 | Stormscape | duh |
| 15:33.34 | Stormscape | high pop server |
| 15:34.03 | Bladescape | pfft, you can still buy herbs cheap on low pop servers |
| 15:34.29 | Stormscape | Anyway, farming herbs on any size server = mug's game |
| 15:34.34 | Amarande | Bladescape: I would think it's more that on high pop servers it's harder to gather things in quantity in current zones because too many other people are doing it too |
| 15:34.44 | Bladescape | nope |
| 15:35.13 | Bladescape | respawn reflects number of people in zone and bots and etc |
| 15:36.22 | Stormscape | More like there's so many people gathering them it's quicker to do some dailies |
| 15:36.23 | Stormscape | and buy them |
| 15:36.26 | Stormscape | than to farm them |
| 15:36.36 | Stormscape | because they're so cheap |
| 15:36.37 | Amarande | nodes tend to be spread out though. it's a matter of luck if the next nodes spawn close enough to you that you can snag them before the other guy does. |
| 15:36.49 | Stormscape | it takes a real schmuck to be a gatherer on a high pop server |
| 15:36.53 | Amarande | in fact, it makes one almost prefer bots |
| 15:37.22 | Amarande | Bots tend to follow a fixed pattern, so you can avoid being outfarmed by them by knowing which node they're likely going for next so you don't go for it yourself |
| 15:37.27 | Amarande | as I learned during that night in Sholazar Basin |
| 15:37.45 | Amarande | it's also how I learned they were bots, because they would constantly try to mine the same node I'd just taken |
| 15:37.59 | Stormmeld | I stopped farming after WotLK, I farmed faster and more than bots or other players |
| 15:38.00 | Amarande | without any apparent cognition that it was gone |
| 15:38.14 | Stormmeld | shrugs |
| 15:39.21 | Stormblademscape | Stormscape: loveeeeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 15:39.53 | Stormscape | T_t |
| 15:40.56 | Amarande | Storm: speaking of that, I wonder how that's going to impact the market in MoP, due to the fact that dailies will be being relied on quite a lot more |
| 15:41.06 | Amarande | (can't rep up with mop factions through dungeons, it's all dailies) |
| 15:41.23 | Stormblademscape | f that lol |
| 15:41.39 | Stormblademscape | I don't have time for sh*tty dailies |
| 15:42.23 | Coreclown | no tabards for instance rep farming at all? :o |
| 15:42.36 | Amarande | Coreclown: nope. all dailies. in fact, you can get valor from dailies in mop, too |
| 15:42.49 | Amarande | I presume if you still need some city rep, you can still use your city tabards |
| 15:43.00 | Amarande | maybe they'll be nice and unlock the LK and Cata tabards to still work at 90, but probably not |
| 15:43.08 | Stormblademscape | I'm sure they'll implement it in a couple patches, once majority of the players have grinded the rep and they just need it on their alts |
| 15:43.17 | Amarande | Also there should be a lot more money staying in-game in MoP, excluding the occasional purchase from the black market AH |
| 15:43.36 | Amarande | if people can get rep and valor from dailies, a lot of people will probably do that instead of taking the time to queue up in dungeons/frustration of wiping on bad groups |
| 15:43.47 | Coreclown | Oh well, in fact I do my dailies everyday now for some extra money, I don't think it will be a problem for me then |
| 15:44.14 | Amarande | Important factor here: You die frequently in dungeons, due to wipes from poor groups/DCs/etc. |
| 15:44.33 | Stormblademscape | not if you run with guild members |
| 15:44.44 | Amarande | This leads to a lot of money exiting the game due to repair bills (which are probably going to start running into the triple digits in mop seeing as some folks have already gotten 50+g repair bills in cata on a bad night) |
| 15:45.27 | fewyn | i had a big repair bill i think a few weeks ago closer to 100 |
| 15:45.35 | Stormblademscape | lot of money from repairs |
| 15:45.37 | Stormblademscape | what |
| 15:45.42 | Amarande | I'm suspecting you also make a much lower hard cash:time ratio in dungeons, too, compared to doing dailies (assuming you don't get lucky and get an expensive BoE item or the latest Orb type to sell) |
| 15:45.56 | Amarande | In dailies, you get a very high cash:time ratio, and you don't generally die much |
| 15:46.05 | Amarande | at least not since netherwing (Dragonmaw Ascendants *shakes fist*) |
| 15:46.50 | Stormblademscape | dailies average about 300g/hour for overall dailies, and ~4-500g in more compact zones |
| 15:47.06 | Amarande | Yeah, you don't make 300g+/hour from dungeons :) |
| 15:47.25 | Amarande | You also spend more, because you'll repair more often. Even with a good group, dungeon deaths tend to be far more common than questing deaths. :) |
| 15:47.28 | Stormblademscape | dungeons are about 10 min with a decent group and you get ~100G or so |
| 15:48.06 | Stormblademscape | that's 600G+/hr with good groups |
| 15:48.06 | Jammer | think you'll spend 15min at least |
| 15:48.10 | *** join/#wowhead Mori-neko (~Moribund@cpe-76-87-42-213.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 15:48.12 | Jammer | even with good group |
| 15:48.15 | Stormblademscape | really? |
| 15:48.28 | Jammer | certainly seem to be doing about 15-20min usually |
| 15:48.37 | Amarande | This is especially true when content is new (between the fact that people are still learning the encounters, plus the fact that new expansion content means you can't rely on being able to faceroll heroics with your high tier raid gear like you can later on) |
| 15:48.40 | Stormblademscape | either way, they're about the same |
| 15:48.49 | Amarande | Jammer: are you counting queue time, or is this exclusively guild group? |
| 15:49.04 | Jammer | Amarande: nope this doesn't have queue time |
| 15:49.10 | Stormblademscape | if you're lucky, dungeons give about 1k/G on a single run |
| 15:49.22 | Jammer | of course as tank/healer queue time usually isn't issue |
| 15:49.28 | Amarande | Storm: what's the average repair cost per death in MoP? |
| 15:49.44 | Stormblademscape | ANYWAY, making gold via dailies or dungeons is dumb |
| 15:50.00 | Stormblademscape | Stormscape: I think he's asking you |
| 15:50.09 | Stormscape | ... |
| 15:50.18 | Stormscape | How the fuck am I supposed to know |
| 15:50.19 | Amarande | Heh. But you said that farming mats is dumb, too |
| 15:50.20 | Stormscape | I don't have Beta |
| 15:50.37 | Amarande | How do you make gold if doing dailies and dungeons is dumb and so is farming mats :P |
| 15:50.57 | blademeld | if you want to make gold, you don't farm mats (save for fish) and you do not go around killing things |
| 15:51.12 | Stormscape | you become a scribe |
| 15:51.16 | blademeld | fishing is ideal if you don't want to think |
| 15:51.16 | Stormscape | and get a license to print money |
| 15:51.21 | blademeld | Stormscape: idd lol |
| 15:51.31 | Jammer | scribes got nerfed bad in cata |
| 15:51.42 | Amarande | yeah, scribes lose out big if you didn't get in on it in LK |
| 15:51.49 | blademeld | Jammer: it's not as bad as it could have been |
| 15:52.36 | Amarande | especially because so many of the glyphs come from the book of glyph mastery which *doesn't drop in cata* |
| 15:52.36 | Jammer | I can't really make more than few K a day as a scribe even posting all day long |
| 15:53.03 | Amarande | it only drops in northrend, and I recall it only has a decent drop rate from high level NR instance elites, to boot |
| 15:53.13 | Jammer | it's okayish income but it's definately not a licence to print money :p |
| 15:53.26 | blademeld | Jammer: I make a couple k a day on glyphs... I'm no a scribe lol |
| 15:53.37 | blademeld | anyways, easier way is the fortune cards |
| 15:53.47 | hylje | people love dat lottery |
| 15:53.47 | Amarande | moreover, at this point thanks to those books, it might be better to wait till MoP :S |
| 15:53.57 | Jammer | blademeld: dunno my realm fortune card prices are below mat costs |
| 15:54.06 | blademeld | Jammer: lol |
| 15:54.11 | Amarande | an awful lot of the Book glyphs are Prime ones which will be wasting your hundreds of gold on a book since they're going away on the 28th |
| 15:55.00 | Amarande | not to mention, is it quite clear yet which glyphs will be the really desirable ones in mop? the whole thing is being overhauled. |
| 15:55.26 | Stormscape | Scribes are going to be rich for a whole different reason in Mists |
| 15:55.28 | Stormscape | shoulder enchants |
| 15:56.15 | Amarande | yeah, that will be a much needed cash infusion |
| 15:56.24 | Amarande | the other reason that glyphs started to suck in cata was because of perma-learning |
| 15:56.52 | Amarande | it was different in LK when re-glyphing meant in some cases needing to keep several of each glyph on hand at a time |
| 15:57.04 | Stormscape | Got all the way to 382 inscription before I didn't have any orange recipies |
| 15:57.09 | Stormscape | boy levelling inscription is easy |
| 15:57.23 | Amarande | (Some LK raiding strategies did involve re-glyphing on a fight to fight basis.) |
| 15:57.33 | blademeld | hehe |
| 15:57.35 | blademeld | good times |
| 15:58.19 | Amarande | Now a character only ever needs a given glyph once, and the item to re-glyph is bought from vendors. Big crash for scribe income. |
| 15:58.31 | blademeld | hehe |
| 15:58.39 | blademeld | I used to buy them from the vendors and resold them |
| 15:58.42 | blademeld | on the AH |
| 15:58.49 | blademeld | until the scribes caught on |
| 15:59.00 | Amarande | yeah, occasionally you'll find someone who doesn't know that they're buyable from vendors :P |
| 15:59.07 | blademeld | and then they started selling 25% or vendor price |
| 15:59.14 | blademeld | of* |
| 15:59.32 | Amarande | I've sometimes seen vendor items make decent bank on the AH, even unlimited ones sometimes, but that's usually for old world recipes that you have to visit some far-flung BFE to purchase |
| 15:59.36 | blademeld | at which point I was like, eh, I made enough |
| 15:59.52 | Amarande | like the engineering recipes from Winterspring, or various Cooking recipes that are scattered to the nine winds |
| 16:00.49 | Amarande | I wonder if the Winterspring recipes are more profitable on Horde though. Should check that. |
| 16:01.00 | *** join/#wowhead wolftankk (~wolftankk@206.253.165.217) |
| 16:01.40 | Amarande | (Reason being that Horde has no real reason to ever go to Winterspring anymore once they're done with the quest and exploration achievements, unless of course they're engineers buying the recipes from the vendors themselves, while Alliance will be coming back there daily for nearly a month to get their cat) |
| 16:02.07 | Stormscape | Blizzard you bastards |
| 16:02.15 | Stormscape | 397-400 requires making green recipies |
| 16:02.27 | hylje | hordies will go to tanaris for their lizard |
| 16:02.33 | hylje | Stormscape: ocd |
| 16:02.45 | Amarande | hylje: yeah, but there's fewer useful recipes sold only in Tanaris than only in Winterspring |
| 16:03.09 | Amarande | also Tanaris tends to be in easier reach for players in general due to Uldum being a popular farming spot |
| 16:03.25 | Stormscape | heh I've already burned through 2.5k gold |
| 16:03.38 | Stormscape | just going from 225 to 400 inscription |
| 16:03.39 | Amarande | except for the cat mount, high level players don't really go near Winterspring all that often unless it's Lunar Festival and Moonglade is the place to be |
| 16:04.18 | Amarande | especially now that the rare crafting recipes were taken away from there too (used to be a big farming spot because you could make money off GAPP and especially Arcanite Dragonling recipes, but now you can't get those there) |
| 16:04.39 | Stormscape | time to burn through another 2k |
| 16:04.44 | Stormscape | hopefully that'll take me to 525 |
| 16:04.52 | Amarande | Stormscape: heh, green recipe fun |
| 16:05.01 | *** join/#wowhead Sonka (~SonkaTeke@dsl5402A3AA.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:05.10 | Amarande | that's been the case for a lot of ranges over wow's history |
| 16:05.14 | Stormscape | yeah managed to get through those 3 points with just 6 crafts |
| 16:05.17 | Amarande | I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth from LWs when Cata was new |
| 16:05.18 | Stormscape | felt good |
| 16:05.49 | Amarande | 510, 515 or so, you start needing enough leather to kit out an entire corporate chain of BDSM dungeons to craft anything that gives you even a *chance* of leveling it up |
| 16:05.52 | Amarande | and that's just that, a chance |
| 16:06.26 | Amarande | The last few points of engineering in LK were a bear, too |
| 16:06.51 | Stormscape | their first problem was making a leatherworker |
| 16:06.56 | Stormscape | it's pretty clear Blizzard hates LWers |
| 16:07.02 | Stormscape | same with engineers |
| 16:07.11 | Stormscape | "sup 2k gold per point" |
| 16:09.39 | Amarande | yeah, I didn't realise the level of engineer hate till I leveled this one |
| 16:09.54 | Amarande | and noted that at least at lower levels (it seemed to stop being the case at higher levels, or maybe it depends on the precise sort of item?) |
| 16:10.12 | Amarande | it used to be you were allowed one kaboom every couple of minutes or so |
| 16:10.31 | Amarande | at some point it appears they've put that as the "one every couple of minutes AFTER YOUR COMBAT IS OVER" rule like potions |
| 16:10.56 | Amarande | but not consistently (some of them still have a basic 1-minute CD) |
| 16:10.57 | Stormscape | I'm /still/ mad about the potion change in Wrath |
| 16:11.21 | Amarande | yeah, I never really quite got the rationale for that one |
| 16:11.52 | Amarande | They claimed it was to reduce consumables dependence (although then they made glyphs consumable and you had to have stacks on hand if you needed to change glyphs for specific fights ...) |
| 16:12.08 | Amarande | It *could* be a resource balancing thing, but not sure |
| 16:12.25 | Amarande | i.e., it used to be that herbs were only useful for alchemy items (with a very very few exceptions) |
| 16:12.36 | Stormscape | Also the "removal of oils/sharpening stones |
| 16:12.42 | Stormscape | claiming it was to reduce costs |
| 16:12.51 | Stormscape | No it was because you can't balance the game worth shit |
| 16:13.00 | Amarande | But now that herbs were going to be a shared resource between multiple professions |
| 16:13.22 | Amarande | I wonder if it was really to keep costs under control - but those of herbs, which otherwise stood to spike in price much more due to more competition for the supply |
| 16:13.37 | Stormscape | I remember powerlevelling alchemy in TBC |
| 16:13.40 | Stormscape | cost me 900g to do 1-375 |
| 16:13.43 | Stormscape | took me all of 2 hours |
| 16:14.00 | Amarande | Fewer consumables used -> fewer herbs that go to alchemists for potion making -> more for scribes to have on hand for glyphs -> lower herb costs |
| 16:14.02 | fewyn | powerleveling some profs is ezpz |
| 16:14.06 | fewyn | some it’s super hard |
| 16:14.12 | fewyn | eng has to be the worst |
| 16:15.13 | Amarande | Oils and sharpening stones are only half-heartedly removed, heh |
| 16:15.29 | Amarande | They've not added any new ones since Wrath, but they keep bumping up the maximum ilvl on the old ones so people can use them for longer while leveling |
| 16:15.43 | *** join/#wowhead jamphat (~jamphay@66-44-29-175.c3-0.129-ubr1.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:16.04 | Amarande | Used to be ilvl 163 max or some such, now I believe the cap is 200 |
| 16:16.40 | Amarande | which actually has another nice point: if you are leveling a character now, it means you get at least a little extra boost in those hellish initial quests in Cata |
| 16:17.06 | Amarande | (particularly as the weapon is often one of the items you replace last) |
| 16:17.10 | Stormscape | wow, Postal won't open mail if you don't have regular bagslots free |
| 16:17.15 | Stormscape | even if you got profession bags free for it |
| 16:18.07 | Amarande | fewyn: actually eng isn't too bad till you hit cata levels |
| 16:18.14 | fewyn | ehhhh |
| 16:18.20 | fewyn | depends if there’s mithril ore on the ah |
| 16:18.22 | fewyn | or not |
| 16:18.24 | Stormscape | blacksmithing, lol |
| 16:18.34 | fewyn | blacksmithing is hard too |
| 16:18.34 | Amarande | that mainly because you need stupid amounts of electrified ether to level it efficiently, and volatile air is always bloody expensive |
| 16:18.54 | fewyn | anything that requires some of those mid level vanilla mats |
| 16:18.56 | fewyn | is a pita |
| 16:19.00 | fewyn | vanilla ore mats |
| 16:19.12 | Amarande | the efficient eng leveling guide I've been following says I need 42 electrified ether |
| 16:19.13 | fewyn | herbs aren’t usually that difficult to get ahold of |
| 16:19.19 | Amarande | that's 84 volatile air, which on AH is 17g or so a pop |
| 16:19.35 | Amarande | that's not counting all the hardened elementium bars |
| 16:19.36 | fewyn | good thing i’m almost back up to ~200k |
| 16:19.48 | fewyn | mop is gonna be exxxxpensive |
| 16:19.52 | Amarande | Mithril ore seems to be plentiful on my server at least |
| 16:20.01 | Amarande | To the point where I paid back my guild leader for it in ore recently |
| 16:20.26 | Stormscape | wow, good job Blizzard. Blackfallow Ink is available at 425, and is orange until 440 |
| 16:20.35 | Stormscape | because there's nothing from 425 to 450 if you weren't a scribe during Wrath |
| 16:20.49 | Amarande | Back when I first hit the point of needing mithril, my guild leader helped me out with several stacks of mithril ore plus a little gold and truesilver, and even said "keep the rest or sell it on AH I don't care" |
| 16:20.59 | Amarande | So, I used that mithril, got past the mithril stage |
| 16:21.21 | Amarande | later on, I came back to Felwood (where all the mining nodes are mithril/TS) to get the Denmother's Cloak (requires virtually all the quests in zone to be done) for mog |
| 16:21.30 | Amarande | ended up with about the same amount of mithril and truesilver |
| 16:21.45 | Amarande | ended up giving it back to the guild leader with a thank you note because it literally went a week + without selling |
| 16:22.24 | Stormscape | aha yes I got the real money maker for inscription now |
| 16:22.27 | Stormscape | mysterious fortune cards |
| 16:22.30 | Stormscape | people love gambling |
| 16:22.38 | Amarande | Stormscape: you know what's strange? :) |
| 16:22.43 | fewyn | i flip my own cards typically |
| 16:22.48 | fewyn | i’ve had pretty good luck |
| 16:22.49 | Amarande | Back in the day I remember reading about Blizzard cracking down on "chat casinos" in trade |
| 16:22.55 | Amarande | ... Now they let scribes sell scratch lottos. :) |
| 16:22.58 | fewyn | i break even or make a profit typically |
| 16:23.08 | fewyn | very rarely do i lose money |
| 16:23.21 | fewyn | but i do 1000 cards at a time |
| 16:23.27 | Stormscape | wat |
| 16:23.36 | Amarande | But yeah, eng isn't too bad till Cata levels |
| 16:23.48 | Amarande | Even the last run to 300 is actually one of the easiest, because it's all dense stone and thorium now |
| 16:23.50 | fewyn | what are you whatting about Stormscape |
| 16:23.57 | Amarande | and, for one, dense stone is actually worthless :P |
| 16:23.59 | Stormscape | >1000 at once |
| 16:24.03 | fewyn | yeah? |
| 16:24.07 | fewyn | that’s typical for me =p |
| 16:24.11 | Stormscape | u cray |
| 16:24.24 | fewyn | nah i just do a lot of shuffling |
| 16:24.30 | Amarande | every time I've acquired dense stone (I used to get a lot of it because I'd hit the thorium nodes while I was doing my Winterspring cat dailies) |
| 16:24.31 | fewyn | excess ink gets turned into cards |
| 16:24.39 | Amarande | Auctioneer has emphatically stated "vendor this item" |
| 16:24.44 | Amarande | it's always below vendor on AH |
| 16:24.51 | fewyn | i don’t even vendor it |
| 16:24.54 | fewyn | i just destroy it |
| 16:24.59 | fewyn | not worth the hassle |
| 16:25.31 | blademeld | meh |
| 16:25.46 | Amarande | LW is probably the worst |
| 16:25.52 | Amarande | The problem with LW is that you just need SO MUCH of it |
| 16:26.14 | fewyn | lwing is only bad if you don’t have a skinner |
| 16:26.17 | Amarande | My joke that you could probably equip every BDSM dungeon on the East Coast with the amount of leather it takes to go from 1-300 is probably accurate LOL |
| 16:26.20 | blademeld | good night stormscape |
| 16:26.27 | Amarande | The trouble is not even the cost, it's availability |
| 16:26.28 | blademeld | good night fewyn |
| 16:26.28 | Stormscape | >night |
| 16:26.30 | Stormscape | oh right |
| 16:26.31 | Stormscape | Korea |
| 16:26.35 | blademeld | the rest of you, I don't know |
| 16:26.45 | Amarande | You're forced to go out there and mass farm, because generally there's nowhere near enough of each type available even if you buy out the whole AH |
| 16:27.04 | Amarande | Then 340-350 needs primals or oddball BC mats for every point |
| 16:27.24 | Amarande | I think 400-425 is the same, too |
| 16:28.41 | Amarande | JC can be pretty bad too, 290-300 and 320-325 seemed to be the chief hurdles |
| 16:28.59 | Amarande | but at least ore is usually something you can get enough of from the AH |
| 16:30.01 | Amarande | Now, mind you, there's two things where eng is a pain, but you don't need to do them to initially level it up. :) |
| 16:30.15 | Amarande | And they both sum up mostly to one word. |
| 16:30.43 | Amarande | "Khorium." |
| 16:31.04 | Amarande | well, that and felsteel |
| 16:31.07 | Stormscape | AH logic: 1 Voltatile Life for 17g, or 200 for 186g. |
| 16:31.38 | eidyia | nice |
| 16:32.48 | Amarande | Stormscape: AH lucky, you mean |
| 16:33.29 | Stormscape | I appear to have encountered the "fuck you" part of scribe levelling finally |
| 16:33.38 | Stormscape | 490 skill, only thing that are orange require lots of rare ink |
| 16:33.40 | Stormscape | and volatiles |
| 16:34.00 | Amarande | here's what we're looking at on my server: https://theunderminejournal.com/item.php?realm=A-Ysera&item=52328 |
| 16:34.24 | Amarande | the 5 and 10 packs are often even worse values than the singles |
| 16:34.51 | Stormscape | >stack of 200: 3000g |
| 16:34.51 | Stormscape | wat |
| 16:36.42 | Amarande | But yeah, between Jeeves and the turbo-copter, you need 16 felsteel bars and 10 khorium bars |
| 16:37.10 | eidyia | i think i need to server xfer to one that has better AH prices |
| 16:43.04 | Stormscape | eidyia: just go to wowprogress.com and pick any server that's in Top 20 |
| 16:43.12 | Stormscape | guranteed to have stupidly low AH prices |
| 16:43.42 | eidyia | sad thing is i have 10 toons on my server and not gonna shell the cash to move them all :( |
| 16:44.23 | Stormscape | god why does the mobile armoury have such a better interface for posting auctions than even the website |
| 16:44.27 | Stormscape | it automatically prices shit for me |
| 16:44.35 | Stormscape | with the website I have to do it myself |
| 16:44.36 | Stormscape | fuck that |
| 16:44.56 | Amarande | I use Auctioneer in-game to set prices |
| 16:45.19 | Stormscape | I really can't be bothered to install any in-game addons |
| 16:45.21 | Stormscape | for AH |
| 16:45.31 | Stormscape | they generally manage to just fuck up the interface with massive clutter |
| 16:45.48 | Mr_Rabies | auctionator is pretty nice |
| 16:46.18 | Mr_Rabies | it's way more barebones than auctioneer, and generally a little quicker to update for patches, etc |
| 16:46.46 | Mr_Rabies | however, it hasn't been updated since december 2011, now that i look at it D: |
| 16:46.54 | Amarande | ouch. wonder if it will break with mop |
| 16:47.02 | Amarande | wonder if auctioneer is mop-ready in its present version, too |
| 16:47.42 | Amarande | Not having a good working auction addon for a time period could have fairly far-ranging effects, I'd imagine :| |
| 16:48.19 | Stormscape | remote AH masterace |
| 16:48.42 | Amarande | how popular is the WoW Remote subscription addon in general? |
| 16:51.27 | Stormscape | I haven't even finished posting all my glyphsd |
| 16:51.32 | Stormscape | and they're already selling |
| 16:51.39 | eidyia | Amarande: i don't have it on my account, but if you let me battle my pets come mists, then i'll add it |
| 16:52.03 | eidyia | i should note: they have to lvl too and count wins, etc |
| 16:52.26 | Amarande | The main effect I would imagine would be that there'd be a lot less stuff on the AH, because people would feel like only posting more reliable sellers due to having to spend extra time to research and determine prices |
| 16:52.38 | Amarande | and therefore, things would probably also cost more because people would want to charge more to make up for not selling as much stuff |
| 16:54.18 | *** join/#wowhead xinc (~xinc@wsip-70-168-157-254.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 16:55.10 | Stormscape | Alright, all my auctions posted |
| 16:55.14 | Stormscape | boy that was quick and easy |
| 16:55.33 | Stormscape | I get the feeling the best selling glyphs are probably always DK glyphs |
| 16:55.41 | Stormscape | because they'll be level 58 with no glyphs, every time |
| 16:55.44 | Stormscape | so they need a bunch all at once |
| 16:58.02 | Amarande | except that savvy players tend to only buy the glyphs their spec plan actually needs :) |
| 16:58.26 | Amarande | I certainly don't waste good gold on glyphs I'll probably never equip |
| 16:58.33 | Stormscape | You're assuming WoW players are smart |
| 17:05.23 | Amarande | heh |
| 17:05.42 | *** join/#wowhead neutronimity (~neutronim@p57B06D48.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:05.44 | *** mode/#wowhead [+o neutronimity] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.44 | Amarande | Yeah, there are plenty of people who can't hack 5K DPS at 85 in decent gear |
| 17:05.53 | neutronimity | I think fewyn will love this. http://i.imgur.com/ntN6u.gif |
| 17:06.00 | *** join/#wowhead Coreclown (~Coreclown@91-158-11-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:11.58 | g0urra | neutronimity: skaters gonna skate. |
| 17:12.05 | neutronimity | yeah |
| 17:13.27 | Amarande | Or, what was that spoof of the Gatorade theme song I came up with ... "Haterade is first aid ... For that deep down ego hurt!" |
| 17:19.22 | Jammer | Amarande: surely you get 5k with like autoattacks :P |
| 17:24.58 | Stormscape | wow, 520-525 is pretty straightforward for scribes |
| 17:25.02 | Stormscape | make ONE relatively cheap item |
| 17:26.00 | eidyia | Stormscape: that's what DMF is for :) |
| 17:26.25 | Stormscape | no, it really is pretty cheap for this last item |
| 17:26.28 | Stormscape | I just need 12 inferno ink |
| 17:26.31 | Stormscape | and a vendor item |
| 17:26.38 | Djones_ | Stormscape, yup |
| 17:26.53 | Stormscape | Compared to tailoring which was like |
| 17:26.55 | Stormscape | haha fuck you |
| 17:27.00 | Stormscape | give me all your cloth |
| 17:27.26 | Amarande | Yeah, Engineering looks easy enough to max too once you get past needing all those hardened elementium bars and volatile airs |
| 17:27.45 | Amarande | Have you gotten the impression that the cloth rate drop seems to be down in Cata/LK compared to earlier levels, too? |
| 17:28.05 | Amarande | Cloth was all over the place in old world, and it seems like humanoids in Outland drop netherweave more often than not |
| 17:28.17 | Amarande | but frostweave and embersilk seem to be an awful lot rarer |
| 17:28.45 | Stormscape | >embersilk |
| 17:28.48 | Stormscape | learn to Tol Barad |
| 17:28.53 | Stormscape | I get like 4 stacks from doing dailies |
| 17:29.06 | Amarande | well, I mean, just leveling seems to get you netherweave and earlier at a pretty good clip |
| 17:29.29 | Amarande | whereas I think I have only about two and a half stacks of embersilk after finishing the whole of Vashj'ir (which does have a decent number of humanoid enemies) |
| 17:29.56 | Djones_ | Amarande, you just need a lot MORE of it |
| 17:29.59 | Djones_ | The drop rate is apprxoimately the same. |
| 17:30.38 | Stormscape | How did you only have that much cloth after finishing vashj'ir |
| 17:30.43 | Stormscape | my bags were OVERFLOWING with it |
| 17:31.10 | Coreclown | same when I leveled |
| 17:31.22 | Niadyth | anyone else having problems opening up the options in grid2 ? |
| 17:31.22 | Stormscape | >mfw book of glyph mastery is 1000g on Area 52 |
| 17:31.25 | Coreclown | got to maxed first aid easily on 2 toons |
| 17:31.26 | Stormscape | dafuq.jpg |
| 17:31.45 | Stormscape | No wonder glyphs are so expensive, 1k gold per glyph |
| 17:32.26 | Djones_ | What. |
| 17:32.27 | Djones_ | No. |
| 17:36.49 | Mr_Rabies | >glyphs |
| 17:36.51 | Mr_Rabies | >expensive |
| 17:37.31 | Mr_Rabies | inscription is so messed up right now |
| 17:37.38 | Mr_Rabies | you practically can't make money doing it |
| 17:37.42 | Djones_ | ^ |
| 17:37.49 | Mr_Rabies | maybe once MoP comes out |
| 17:37.50 | Djones_ | Sell glyphs at below herb price. |
| 17:37.54 | Djones_ | gg? |
| 17:37.54 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, exactly |
| 17:38.07 | Mr_Rabies | also, learning new recipes is a total pain the ass |
| 17:38.19 | Mr_Rabies | also: 4 different kinds of paper, and a convoluted ink system |
| 17:38.25 | Djones_ | Aye. |
| 17:38.33 | Djones_ | Although, I wish crafting was scrapped and made interesting. |
| 17:38.42 | Djones_ | I -hate- recipe based systems. |
| 17:38.43 | Djones_ | So lame. |
| 17:38.46 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 17:38.59 | Djones_ | Game called ryzom had the best crafting system of all time. |
| 17:39.14 | Djones_ | You had Blueprints for stuff. Heavy armour say requires wood, resin, sap, something else. |
| 17:39.15 | Mr_Rabies | the rest of ryzom was totally nutso though |
| 17:39.22 | Djones_ | There are like 50 different woods/resin etc. |
| 17:39.22 | Djones_ | Oh sure. |
| 17:39.45 | Djones_ | The "recipes" were ones the community figured out. |
| 17:39.45 | Mr_Rabies | see, i don't really like that either |
| 17:39.58 | Mr_Rabies | it should be considerably more simplified, in my opinion |
| 17:40.02 | Djones_ | No, that was FUN. |
| 17:40.12 | Djones_ | Eveyone could make basic stuff, and knew the general recipes. |
| 17:40.20 | Mr_Rabies | right now some professions are needlessly complicated with extra steps in the process for no reason |
| 17:40.22 | Djones_ | But the best stuff was kept secret by the crafters. That was cool. |
| 17:40.28 | Amarande | Well, depending on the type of crafting, would free-crafting be viable for all professions? |
| 17:40.29 | Mr_Rabies | like, alchemists do this |
| 17:40.35 | Mr_Rabies | herbs -> potions |
| 17:40.41 | Mr_Rabies | metal -> other metal |
| 17:40.41 | Amarande | I could see it being viable for Alchemy (just use an Elder Scrolls style potion combine system) |
| 17:40.44 | Mr_Rabies | engineers go |
| 17:40.52 | Amarande | OTOH, for things like a weapon or armour? |
| 17:41.12 | Stormscape | I still think WoW needs the ability for crafting to fail |
| 17:41.17 | Mr_Rabies | metal -> parts, parts, parts -> bigger part -> final product |
| 17:41.32 | Mr_Rabies | which is totally unnecessary |
| 17:41.41 | Amarande | Not sure you can do much realistically there, except for taking perhaps a leaf from NWN2 and having just the one recipe for each type of weapon or armour, with the actual properties of the output modulated by crafting skill and the type of mats chosen |
| 17:42.11 | eidyia | Mr_Rabies: i'd say it's part of managing the economy |
| 17:42.12 | Amarande | imagines WoW with Stormscape's idea |
| 17:42.22 | Amarande | imagines Stormscape being flayed raw by hordes of angry leatherworkers |
| 17:42.27 | eidyia | spending 8k for cycle parts is a gold sink |
| 17:42.35 | Stormscape | mat costs would go down obviously because of fail chance |
| 17:42.43 | Stormscape | can't have something that needs 100k in mats |
| 17:42.45 | Stormscape | and have it fail |
| 17:42.52 | Mr_Rabies | that's not the problem i'm talking about eidyia |
| 17:42.53 | Amarande | But for instance, instead of having separate recipes for, say, a basic 1H sword |
| 17:42.59 | Amarande | You'd have just a "1H metallic sword" recipe |
| 17:43.00 | Mr_Rabies | i'm talking about there being extra steps in the process for no reason |
| 17:43.07 | Mr_Rabies | gold sinks are good |
| 17:43.11 | Mr_Rabies | time sinks aren't |
| 17:43.15 | eidyia | i hear ya |
| 17:43.16 | Amarande | How high level your BS is would determine what metals you could work with, and the stats would be based on the particular ingots you use ... that might work |
| 17:43.23 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 17:43.25 | eidyia | ie. if i have all the mats to make the big machine - just make it |
| 17:43.27 | Mr_Rabies | time sinks have their purpose |
| 17:43.32 | Mr_Rabies | but in the crafting system, it doesn't |
| 17:43.47 | Mr_Rabies | because the items you produce are generally not that strong |
| 17:44.02 | Mr_Rabies | there's no real reason for crafting to take so much meticulous planning and time |
| 17:44.05 | Amarande | Yeah, that would pretty much mean making crafted gear the supreme gear |
| 17:44.15 | eidyia | if a bike is made with 8 parts which are made of 3 bars, 5 bolts, and a red gem, just let me make the bike if i have all the raw mats |
| 17:44.19 | Amarande | although this is actually the case in some MMOs |
| 17:44.29 | Mr_Rabies | exactly, eidyia |
| 17:44.31 | Mr_Rabies | instead of going |
| 17:44.34 | Mr_Rabies | okay, i gotta make wheels |
| 17:44.35 | eidyia | i agree |
| 17:44.36 | Mr_Rabies | i gotta make a seat |
| 17:44.38 | Amarande | in LOTRO for instance, the best weapons, class items, and in Rise of Isengard, cloaks, are all crafted |
| 17:44.42 | Mr_Rabies | i gotta make headlights |
| 17:44.42 | eidyia | makes planning those things a pain |
| 17:45.02 | Mr_Rabies | okay, now i need to combine the headlight and the frame, then combine the second frame with the wheels |
| 17:45.04 | eidyia | i'd say: if you have the raw mats, make the bike; if i have a few raw mats and a few parts, make the parts then bike |
| 17:45.09 | Amarande | Raid bosses don't drop weapons directly, instead they drop special mats that are used to craft them (and Saruman drops special cloak clasps for epic cloak crafts) |
| 17:45.46 | eidyia | i'm with ya |
| 17:45.50 | Mr_Rabies | but really, there's not much of a reason not to be an alchemist if you have just one character |
| 17:45.57 | Mr_Rabies | it's got the most perks, it's simple, it's always needed |
| 17:46.00 | Amarande | Basically, to get the LOTRO system in WoW? Just have most or all of the top end stuff be either crafted or purchased with valor/justice |
| 17:46.13 | Amarande | Then have the raid bosses just drop valor and special mats for the top end crafted items |
| 17:46.24 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, it's always thus |
| 17:46.25 | Mr_Rabies | alchemy is essentially the perfect profession |
| 17:46.29 | Amarande | It mostly eliminates loot complaints, too. :) |
| 17:46.30 | Djones_ | Alchemy+BS |
| 17:46.31 | Djones_ | always optimal. |
| 17:46.37 | Mr_Rabies | i hate to be one of those guys |
| 17:46.43 | Mr_Rabies | but it seems to be blizzard's favorite |
| 17:46.55 | Mr_Rabies | it's, in my mind, the perfect profession |
| 17:47.05 | eidyia | i feel being an enchanter is good too - always people needing enchants and while a huge up-front investment, pays off financially |
| 17:47.07 | Amarande | actually, alchemy got a fair amount of hate from blizzard when they nerfed potions to one per battle |
| 17:47.15 | Mr_Rabies | hell, it even got cool shit that's normally reserved for engineering since eng is insanely unprofitable |
| 17:47.35 | eidyia | they do have a mount now |
| 17:47.37 | Amarande | I expect eng will become more profitable in MoP, if only a little |
| 17:47.50 | Mr_Rabies | they got cool flavor items like the illusion potion thing, treasure finding, a mount |
| 17:47.53 | Amarande | the way fishing difficulty has been ramping up, the +150 lures start to become quite attractive |
| 17:47.53 | Mr_Rabies | engineering got uh |
| 17:47.59 | Mr_Rabies | loot-a-rang? |
| 17:48.11 | Djones_ | "Fishing difficulty" |
| 17:48.19 | Mr_Rabies | fishing timesink, i think you mean :p |
| 17:48.22 | Amarande | In fact, you HAVE TO have a 150 lure to maximise your chances of fishing non-junk in Vale, and even with all the stuff, you can still get greys |
| 17:48.29 | Djones_ | Amarande, it doesn't MATTER. |
| 17:48.31 | eidyia | need to make more engr mounts - then ppl will buy again |
| 17:48.32 | Djones_ | Nobody cares about junk. |
| 17:48.38 | Djones_ | Because so will everyone else. |
| 17:48.57 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really even necessarily want engineering to be profitable |
| 17:49.03 | Mr_Rabies | i just want it to be fun and useful |
| 17:49.05 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: hopefully loot-a-rang works with the new AoE looting in mop |
| 17:49.11 | Amarande | then it will be win and awesome for ranged classes |
| 17:49.13 | Mr_Rabies | right now you get an extra minitrinket and loot-a-rang |
| 17:49.16 | Mr_Rabies | it does, but it's awkward |
| 17:49.25 | Mr_Rabies | 1 sec cast time, pulls druids out of feral forms |
| 17:49.29 | eidyia | i'm sure it's like getting your hunter pet to fetch loot |
| 17:49.45 | Amarande | Good thing about being ranged: You can kill mobs before they even get close enough to hurt you |
| 17:50.03 | Amarande | Bad thing about being ranged: You kill mobs at a fair distance which means they're still near enough to their buddies to have to worry about aggroing them when you go to loot :) |
| 17:50.18 | Mr_Rabies | good thing about being melee: uh |
| 17:50.25 | Stormscape | http://i.imgur.com/5ncIQ.jpg |
| 17:50.30 | Stormscape | every WoW player ever |
| 17:51.26 | eidyia | Stormscape - i'd like to see someone take the April Fool's ghost crawl clippy/crab on there and mash it up |
| 17:57.57 | *** join/#wowhead stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 17:57.58 | Djones_ | <Amarande> Bad thing about being ranged: You kill mobs at a fair distance which means they're still near enough to their buddies to have to worry about aggroing them when you go to loot :) : Wut. |
| 17:58.08 | Djones_ | If they're close enough to aggro you would have aggro'd them when you pulled. |
| 17:58.22 | Djones_ | And since they move towards you, and thus away from their friends when you attack them. I repeat. Wut. |
| 18:00.37 | Stormscape | ^ |
| 18:00.45 | Stormscape | if you're worried about prox aggro, wait for them to get closer |
| 18:00.46 | Stormscape | jeeez |
| 18:13.43 | JunkHead | Djones_ I bet i can give you an aggro situation much much worse and confusing and headache inducing. |
| 18:14.28 | JunkHead | I'll simply just use the word "argo" repeatedly. |
| 18:18.47 | Djones_ | <3 |
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| 18:37.14 | g0urra | http://i.imgur.com/cDnBe.jpg |
| 18:37.40 | Stormscape | Overheard in Russia: "It's not like we can arrest the car" |
| 18:47.47 | Stormscape | Djones so I went to a DS10 with my mage, I was only cloth user in the group |
| 18:48.00 | Stormscape | le boner face |
| 18:50.06 | Djones_ | lol |
| 18:50.52 | Amarande | bans JunkHead from Argo |
| 18:51.51 | Stormscape | I got tic toc and belt because of that |
| 18:51.54 | Stormscape | was pretty awesome |
| 18:53.33 | Amarande | Stormscape: yeah, being the only user of a particular gear type is usually win :) |
| 18:53.42 | Amarande | During my ICC10 days on my DK, I was usually the only plate DPS present :) |
| 18:54.01 | Amarande | and, on top of that, usually the only user of 1H physical DPS weapons |
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| 22:37.29 | fewyn | http://theoatmeal.com/blog/tesla_museum_perks |
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| 22:53.44 | fewyn | ok so |
| 22:53.47 | fewyn | inscription bags |
| 22:54.06 | fewyn | what don’t they hold? |
| 22:54.44 | fewyn | Glyphs · Scrolls · Pigments · Ink · Parchment |
| 23:00.47 | g0urra | hm.. is it just me or has Shadowflame been removed in MoP? |
| 23:01.18 | g0urra | I can't see it anywhere |
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| 23:04.50 | fewyn | i think it is |
| 23:04.53 | fewyn | i don’t see it on the mop db |
| 23:04.57 | fewyn | http://mop.wowhead.com/search?q=shadowflame |
| 23:05.55 | g0urra | yeah. weird how there's still a glyph there |
| 23:05.56 | g0urra | oh well |
| 23:06.49 | llano | Anyone have a Scroll of Resurrection to hand out - was looking to try wow again? |
| 23:07.42 | g0urra | eu or us? |
| 23:07.52 | llano | US |
| 23:10.35 | llano | No takers? You can send unlimited Scrolls |
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