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| 00:09.01 | Freyja | [The Wowhead Blog] Midsummer Scavenger Hunt: Win Mists of Pandaria Beta Keys and Astro Gaming Headsets! - http://www.wowhead.com/news=204358/midsummer-scavenger-hunt-win-mists-of-pandaria-beta-keys-and-astro-gaming-headse |
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| 01:28.08 | fewyn | wtb addon to manage my transmog sets |
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| 08:58.28 | jane | we finally fucking got heroic spine |
| 08:58.50 | Jammer | gz |
| 08:58.56 | jane | only with seven healers -_- |
| 08:59.35 | Jammer | sucky healers then I guess :p |
| 08:59.53 | Jammer | was it you with the crappy druid |
| 09:00.01 | jane | no, the mediocre shaman |
| 09:00.05 | jane | oh, yeah, he was in my raid group |
| 09:00.08 | Jammer | ye |
| 09:00.13 | jane | im the mediocre shaman lol |
| 09:00.27 | jane | http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-skqtntl7bte0exx7/sum/healingDone/?s=9300&e=9975 |
| 09:00.37 | jane | and im pretty sure most of them outgear me :( |
| 09:04.29 | jane | i look forward to not having to micromanage buffs |
| 09:04.53 | jane | oh, and having more than 1 second to run for roll right after grip |
| 09:11.42 | jane | I can't believe the number of ahune runs im zoning into that wiped from a shitty healer |
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| 09:30.25 | raspy | weeee |
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| 10:06.17 | Ward | the tag on this item, is wrong |
| 10:06.18 | Ward | http://www.wowhead.com/item=10038#comments:id=1300697 |
| 10:06.24 | Ward | I just crafted one in game |
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| 10:10.16 | Stormscape | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bp0Q3UJHrkU#! |
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| 10:33.52 | Ysidril | salut |
| 10:35.35 | Ysidril | il y a des gens de sinistralis ? |
| 10:41.00 | Stormscape | English only. |
| 10:55.06 | Ward | is there any way I can compare achievements between 2 chars outside the game? |
| 10:56.59 | Stormscape | Ward, in the armoury most likely |
| 10:57.04 | Ward | no |
| 10:57.11 | Ward | you used to be able to in the old armory |
| 10:57.19 | Ward | but the new one doesn´t have that feature |
| 10:57.30 | Ward | and there´s no website that does it either it seems |
| 10:57.55 | Ward | the only thing I can do atm it seems, is load both chars into wowhead and compare them side by side manually |
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| 10:58.54 | Ysidril | ok |
| 10:58.57 | JunkHead | ko |
| 10:59.06 | Ysidril | is anyoone who play in sinistralis kingdom |
| 10:59.15 | Ysidril | here |
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| 11:01.23 | Stormscape | aaaahhh I can't decide between making my mage Goblin or Blood Elf |
| 11:01.38 | JunkHead | Do both. |
| 11:02.06 | Eraclito | troll be da way, mon |
| 11:02.28 | Eraclito | my only horde lv80+ character is a troll mage :P |
| 11:02.29 | Stormscape | yeah but troll feet are ugly |
| 11:02.29 | Ward | belf |
| 11:02.48 | Ward | goblins are cool now, but after a while you get annoyed by their small stature |
| 11:02.55 | Ward | and cloth gear looks crap on them |
| 11:02.58 | JunkHead | goblin are pretty nice, but they just look silly. |
| 11:03.06 | JunkHead | as much as i want to like their look, i just cant |
| 11:03.07 | Ward | also belfs are far more rooted in mage lore |
| 11:03.08 | Stormscape | that's how I felt about my priest when she was a gnome |
| 11:03.12 | Stormscape | I couldn't see any of my gear |
| 11:03.16 | JunkHead | yeah i dont like gnomes either |
| 11:03.28 | Ward | so Belf Mage is the way to go |
| 11:03.33 | Stormscape | Indeed! |
| 11:03.34 | Eraclito | i changed my main from gnome to night elf |
| 11:03.48 | Stormscape | Now to spend 25 minutes getting her face juuuuuuust right |
| 11:03.51 | Ward | I only play alliance atm |
| 11:03.56 | Ward | but if I were horde, I´d be a belf |
| 11:03.57 | Ward | or a cow |
| 11:04.03 | Eraclito | i have anyway three more gnomes, but there's something good about them being so little |
| 11:04.12 | Eraclito | vanilla gear still feel awesome |
| 11:04.18 | Stormscape | only thing gnome is good for is melee classes in PvP |
| 11:04.27 | Eraclito | on high characters they look like crap |
| 11:04.30 | Stormscape | combine with Noggenfogger |
| 11:04.57 | JunkHead | Damn... Beta must be down. |
| 11:05.19 | Ward | I added all my chars to the wowhead profiles, but that doesn´t have a compare feature either :p |
| 11:06.06 | JunkHead | I rarely get on the MoP beta, but this mornign I copied over a few characters so I can see the account wide achievement/pet/mount stufffor myself. |
| 11:06.14 | JunkHead | and now i cant get on the beta.:P |
| 11:06.34 | Ward | I´ve never been in a single wow beta |
| 11:06.41 | Ward | always unlucky with the keys |
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| 11:08.59 | Stormscape | I forgot how hilariously mean the female BE /silly is |
| 11:09.08 | Stormscape | "Mirrors can't talk. Luckily for you they can't laugh either." |
| 11:09.32 | Ward | female BEs are bitchy |
| 11:09.35 | Ward | in a good way |
| 11:09.41 | Stormscape | god I know they're like |
| 11:09.43 | Stormscape | Queens of Mean |
| 11:09.56 | JunkHead | Lisa Lampanelli? |
| 11:10.48 | Ward | "I went to Undercity to get a facial. Ha! Have you seen these people? I said, 'You don't have a lower jaw and you're going to give ME a facial?' She got mad...at least I think she did. You ever heard someone talk without a lower jaw? 'Rawe-rau-werew' Ho-ho! She sounded like a murloc!" |
| 11:10.59 | Stormscape | I always loved how female BE /chicken literally does sound like a chicken |
| 11:11.25 | JunkHead | One of my favorite emote sounds in-game is the female draenei /train. |
| 11:11.34 | JunkHead | It makes me giggle every time I hear it. |
| 11:12.19 | JunkHead | ugh, my beta isnt up to date |
| 11:12.24 | JunkHead | 2.19gb left.:\ |
| 11:13.23 | Stormscape | JunkHead, female gnome /train is the best |
| 11:13.51 | Ward | ok so I´ve found an addon that lets me export all my achievements into a CSV file |
| 11:14.07 | Ward | I can then enter the CSV files of both chars into excel and do a comparitative analysis there |
| 11:14.11 | Ward | showing me the differences |
| 11:14.39 | Ward | quite an obtuse way to figure out what achievements I should go for next |
| 11:16.36 | JunkHead | I'd like to find a simple printable list of all mounts in the game. |
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| 17:17.24 | doggle | Stormscape, |
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| 17:25.03 | Freyja | [The Wowhead Blog] News Round Up: Account-Wide Mounts, Beta Raid Preview, No Level 90 Premades - http://www.wowhead.com/news=204335/news-round-up-account-wide-mounts-beta-raid-preview-no-level-90-premades |
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| 18:05.42 | fewyn | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&feature=plcp |
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| 20:00.12 | BlackNet | http://i.imgur.com/zW7CP.jpg |
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| 21:16.34 | Amarande | shakes my head at some of these guilds' policies ... |
| 21:16.45 | Amarande | Like one top EU guild for instance: "You must be prepared to sacrifice any real life activities in order to ensure attendance." |
| 21:16.54 | Amarande | how do these raiders like, work and such? :S |
| 21:18.11 | Stormscape | ^clearly wasn't around in Vanilla |
| 21:18.30 | Stormscape | Vanilla Raid Guilds would share phone numbers so you could get called at 3 in the morning to log on to kill a world boss |
| 21:18.42 | Amarande | ... OTOH, at least they have raiding frost mages, so *finally* I've found a model to base a modern PvE spec on |
| 21:18.46 | Stormscape | Sleep? Work? Doesn't matter; world boss |
| 21:19.40 | Amarande | and nope, I didn't show up to WoW until BC |
| 21:19.47 | Amarande | and didn't raid regularly until WotLK |
| 21:20.18 | Amarande | my BC raiding experience amounted to a couple of Kara runs where I think we made it up to Chess Event. heh |
| 21:20.28 | Ward | some of the members of my guild have my personal email address |
| 21:20.51 | Ward | the one that is 100% spam free and gets forwarded directly to my phone |
| 21:20.58 | Amarande | I *almost* managed to land a gig in a kara guild the last couple of months of BC |
| 21:21.02 | Amarande | but bad luck struck there |
| 21:21.09 | Ward | I still get messages at 2 AM sometimes, asking me to come heal |
| 21:21.30 | Amarande | at the time, the only days I could count on being home in the evenings without getting a surprise work shift that might be till 9 or later were Tuesday and Wednesday, so my choices were rather limited |
| 21:21.32 | JunkHead | When I raided regularly, only like, 2 guildies had my number. |
| 21:21.32 | Ward | Amarande, I got a frost pve spec on my mage |
| 21:21.40 | JunkHead | only 1 every called me for raids and such |
| 21:21.56 | JunkHead | and if I didn't wanna join, she'd simply tell everyone she couldn't reach me. |
| 21:21.59 | Ward | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Wardian/talent/secondary |
| 21:22.02 | Amarande | I finally found a Tue/Wed guild and did well, I think, in my trial run, but before I could be considered for further trials or permanent membership, I went to Dragon Con |
| 21:22.08 | Ward | oldschool pve frost |
| 21:22.21 | Amarande | And when I came back from D*Con I found out that they'd changed to Tue/Thu, which was not viable at the time :| |
| 21:22.59 | JunkHead | My first main raiding guild was amornign guild. |
| 21:23.08 | JunkHead | ugh |
| 21:23.12 | JunkHead | a morning guild |
| 21:23.16 | JunkHead | piece of shit space bar |
| 21:23.24 | Ward | I´ve been in the same guild since early vanilla |
| 21:23.25 | JunkHead | they started raids at 8am my time. |
| 21:23.29 | Ward | 2005 it was founded |
| 21:23.34 | Ward | but I didn´t become an officer until wotlk |
| 21:23.37 | JunkHead | well... about 10 minutes after 8. |
| 21:23.42 | JunkHead | they gave me time to get home from work. |
| 21:24.09 | Amarande | At the time, except for Sundays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, I didn't have a reliably consistent work schedule, and could have a work shift as early as 8AM or as late as midnight any given day |
| 21:24.15 | JunkHead | I joined that guild shortly after TBC came out. |
| 21:24.22 | JunkHead | started on t4 content |
| 21:24.28 | Amarande | and Sundays were (still are, actually) always an evening shift, so the constancy of a shift there worked against, not for me |
| 21:24.32 | raspy | weeee |
| 21:24.37 | JunkHead | stayed with them until....before ulduar came out |
| 21:25.14 | Amarande | Pretty much I would have had to find a late nite guild I think |
| 21:25.29 | Amarande | *and* it would have had to accept someone who was still a relatively fresh 70 and thus needed to do the gear treadmill first |
| 21:26.03 | Amarande | At least it would have been during BC. |
| 21:26.14 | Amarande | I imagine that late night guilds were quite hated and reviled during the late stages of vanilla, heh |
| 21:26.35 | Amarande | especially after things like the Valafar affair |
| 21:26.48 | Amarande | (indeed, I think it might be a good idea on the server I'm about to roll Alliance on to never speak of bug mounts. heh) |
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| 21:27.36 | Amarande | you can probably tell the reason, in light of the above. :P |
| 21:28.58 | Ward | what´s the Valafar affair? |
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| 21:32.51 | Amarande | Ward: on Ysera, during the AQ40 rush, one infamous guild (though not infamous enough for me to remember the name off the top of my head, as I read about it on one of the wikis and am only just now getting ready to roll on that server) |
| 21:32.54 | *** join/#wowhead Primar (~nnscript@host86-175-209-46.wlms-broadband.com) |
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| 21:33.21 | Amarande | was behind in the race for the scepter, and apparently primarily had had trouble with the 5 hour BWL run |
| 21:33.36 | Amarande | so they brought in a transfer member from another server who was further progressed in order to catch up |
| 21:33.43 | Amarande | his name was Valafar, hence why I term this the Valafar affair. |
| 21:34.12 | Amarande | now, you can probably make a very good guess as to why the bug mount is probably something not to talk about on Ysera and why late nite guilds might have been especially hated for most of the rest of vanilla after that ... |
| 21:35.02 | JunkHead | So, the guild hit a roadblock and recruited a transfer to help them over it? |
| 21:36.56 | Amarande | JunkHead: Yeah. But that itself wouldn't have been the evil thing. |
| 21:37.23 | Amarande | The evil thing was that Valafar went ahead, once he had his sceptre (he might have transferred with it in fact, I'm foggy on that now but it's on the Ysera page on the wikis) |
| 21:38.03 | Amarande | ... and, rather than waiting for the unofficially but understood agreed time that the various competing guilds were going to hit the gong (I guess they had decided to be friendly and let everyone who had worked hard enough in a timely manner to get their bugs) |
| 21:38.11 | Amarande | ... went and did it himself |
| 21:38.14 | Amarande | ... in the wee hours |
| 21:38.21 | Amarande | ... on a (you probably guessed it) |
| 21:38.59 | Amarande | I wonder if he stayed on the server for long or if he made a point to transfer off as soon as the cooldown was up :P |
| 21:39.25 | Amarande | I'm guessing he probably was really, really lucky he was on a PvE server though :P |
| 21:40.37 | Amarande | I imagine someone doing that on a PvP server probably wouldn't even dare mount their legendary bug, as it would probably mark them KoS for the other faction and make their own faction wish there was intra-faction PvP, heh |
| 21:41.38 | JunkHead | the server i played on for a while as horde... |
| 21:41.43 | JunkHead | we had this little claim to fame |
| 21:41.48 | JunkHead | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Analogkid |
| 21:41.58 | Amarande | But yup. He went against the server wide effort and ninja'd the gong credit, late on a Monday night no less so that most of the 10 hour window was during maintenance. |
| 21:42.48 | JunkHead | http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/08/07/forum-post-of-the-day-vicarious-legend/ |
| 21:44.00 | Amarande | And yeah, I've never quite understood why some human beings choose to descend to such levels of jerkdom. :| |
| 21:45.01 | Amarande | I mean really, he spoiled the fun of several hundred people for nothing more than an item that doesn't even give any kind of edge whatsoever. *shakes head* |
| 21:51.10 | Amarande | hrm. |
| 21:51.18 | Amarande | is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Asayu/talent/primary actually a PvE spec btw, or is that actually their PvP spec? |
| 21:51.24 | Amarande | I'm comparing that one to Ward's |
| 21:53.22 | Amarande | ah, apparently it is a PvE spec |
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| 22:20.22 | Ward | I don´t really see the point of speccing into impact for pve |
| 22:20.46 | Ward | it´s not like you have fire dots to spread as frost |
| 22:22.58 | Amarande | yeah, this is a strange spec |
| 22:23.01 | Amarande | especially for a world class raider |
| 22:24.03 | *** join/#wowhead NiLoni (~nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 22:32.34 | Amarande | yeah, yours seems to make more sense |
| 22:38.26 | Ward | maybe he just uses that spec on gimmicky fights |
| 22:38.32 | Ward | where he needs to control an add or something |
| 22:38.54 | Ward | his other spec is a stright up fire pve spec |
| 22:39.06 | Ward | the basic cookiecutter almost every mage uses atm |
| 22:39.55 | Amarande | yeah, it seems nearly everyone uses fire/arcane with very little love for frost |
| 22:40.05 | Amarande | even though frost actually feels fun to play :S |
| 22:40.37 | Lugburz | FUK FRAWST |
| 22:41.34 | Ward | Frost is wicked fun |
| 22:41.47 | Ward | especially in burn phases, when you can lay down some double deep freeze combos |
| 22:41.47 | Lugburz | heh |
| 22:42.14 | Amarande | I tried fire once and felt way too squishy when soloing |
| 22:42.15 | Ward | plus you got so much survivability and control you can actually save the day on tricky fights |
| 22:42.25 | Amarande | Have never really tried Arcane. I understand it tends to lead to a drinking problem. |
| 22:42.40 | Ward | fire is good for standing out of harms way and spamming maximum dps |
| 22:42.48 | Ward | arcane even more so |
| 22:42.55 | Ward | because arcane is all about the rotation |
| 22:43.07 | Ward | arcane has zero interactivity, fire has a little |
| 22:43.10 | Ward | frost has a lot |
| 22:43.18 | Amarande | yeah, frost tends to work off priority |
| 22:43.24 | Amarande | interestingly, this is so whether it's a mage or a DK |
| 22:43.30 | Amarande | (I raided as a DW frost DK during LK) |
| 22:43.40 | Ward | I´ve never tried a DK |
| 22:43.44 | Ward | apart from 55-60 :p |
| 22:43.50 | Ward | just to see the zone once |
| 22:44.06 | Amarande | DKs are pretty fun, as long as you look past the fact that a lot of people will look at you as a noob for choosing the class |
| 22:44.14 | Amarande | but then, that's no different than ret paladin, or any spec of hunter |
| 22:44.25 | Ward | yeah |
| 22:44.45 | Amarande | any class that's easy to play but not so easy to master is going to be like that though |
| 22:44.55 | Ward | people say the same thing about mages really |
| 22:45.11 | Amarande | jealousy probably plays a major part in the mage case |
| 22:45.21 | Ward | but I see plenty of mages in LFR who are in full tier gear and a perfect pve build, and not even dps´ing close to their potential |
| 22:45.32 | Ward | with fire for instance, nobody times their Combustion right |
| 22:45.47 | Amarande | especially since cata, since mages are the only class who get around the world so easily now |
| 22:45.49 | Ward | it´s so important to use Combustion just right |
| 22:46.10 | Ward | plus there´s always people saying frost has no place in raids |
| 22:46.28 | Ward | until you out dps them and take less than over a whole fight than the rogues and paladins |
| 22:46.44 | Ward | less damage |
| 22:46.52 | Amarande | yeah, taking strain off the healers is always a good thing |
| 22:47.11 | Amarande | I remember when Cata was new and healer mana was strained like never before, I actually suggested that rogues spec Sub |
| 22:47.20 | Amarande | simply because of that passive AoE damage reduction talent |
| 22:47.52 | Amarande | after all, all specs do a flat 0.0 DPS when dead |
| 22:48.16 | Amarande | speaking of DKs I was pleasantly surprised to look at mine's spellbook the other day |
| 22:48.53 | Ward | I wish I could raid on my mage more |
| 22:49.00 | Amarande | apparently, what used to be raise an ally as a ghoul has become a full-fledged b-rez |
| 22:49.04 | Amarande | not sure when that happened :S |
| 22:49.04 | Ward | it´s still my favorite class after 7 years of playing it |
| 22:49.14 | Amarande | I didn't play during 4.1 or 4.2 |
| 22:49.15 | Ward | that happened in the cataclysm |
| 22:49.21 | Ward | warlocks got a b-rez too |
| 22:49.24 | Amarande | was that basic 4.0.3? |
| 22:49.27 | Ward | yeah |
| 22:49.32 | Stormscape | ERREYBODY GETS A BREZ |
| 22:49.40 | Ward | just warlocks and DKs |
| 22:49.41 | Amarande | I remember we also got royally pissed off about b-rezzes when 4.0 hit |
| 22:49.44 | Ward | and druids still have theirs |
| 22:49.46 | Amarande | in our raid group |
| 22:50.02 | Amarande | because we had a very druid-heavy group and were used to the huge security against wipes that had |
| 22:50.05 | Stormscape | I find it offensive that warlocks and DKs have a battle rez but I still don't |
| 22:50.21 | Ward | I think mages should get one |
| 22:50.25 | Amarande | now not only do b-rez's put all other group members' b-rez's on CD |
| 22:50.26 | Ward | we always survive wipes |
| 22:50.31 | Ward | allthough, mass res is fine too |
| 22:50.34 | Amarande | but apparently, someone popping their previously placed soulstone counts too |
| 22:50.45 | Ward | yeah |
| 22:50.49 | Amarande | (and I would guess that so does a Shaman in the raid popping their whatchamacallit? ... also that sounds wrong) |
| 22:50.54 | Ward | it´s also terrible when like 4 guys die on a fight |
| 22:50.57 | Ward | 3 dps and a healer |
| 22:51.04 | Ward | and some warlock decides to res his dps buddy |
| 22:51.23 | Ward | and you´re sitting there spamming bres on the healing |
| 22:51.30 | Ward | NOOOOOOOOOOO, to late |
| 22:51.31 | Amarande | it was useful when we were learning the LK fight to have multiple b-rez's though |
| 22:51.46 | Ward | we used it a lot on LK heroic |
| 22:51.53 | Ward | we spent weeks and weeks trying that one |
| 22:52.02 | Ward | having bres made us progress faster |
| 22:52.04 | Amarande | nah what's fun is when 3 or 4 folks in a 5-man group die in LBRS because a fear chain aggroed most of the downstairs troll room |
| 22:52.09 | Stormscape | did they get rid of this though, cause I swear we rezzed the tank at least twice on Heroic Yor'sahj last week |
| 22:52.20 | Amarande | and then the hunter proceeds to successfully clear out the entire clusterf*** |
| 22:52.27 | Amarande | you know how I know this? :) |
| 22:52.49 | Ward | you can do 1 res on 10 man, and 3x on 25 |
| 22:52.53 | Amarande | I was that hunter. |
| 22:53.07 | Stormscape | Ward yeah it was 10 man |
| 22:53.22 | Amarande | I think everyone was getting ready for the wipe by then |
| 22:53.24 | Ward | then you can´t have ressed him twice |
| 22:53.27 | Amarande | and then wondered why the wipe never came :P |
| 22:53.27 | Stormscape | but we did |
| 22:53.31 | Ward | you didn´t |
| 22:53.38 | Stormscape | we did though |
| 22:53.46 | Ward | impossible! |
| 22:53.55 | Amarande | I wonder what abuse precipitated the idea of shared b-rez CDs |
| 22:54.03 | Amarande | unless they felt too many people were playing druids |
| 22:54.05 | Stormscape | druid stacking |
| 22:54.17 | Stormscape | bring 10 druids oh look you can rez half your raid every attempt |
| 22:54.34 | Ward | I´m countertrend |
| 22:54.41 | Ward | I didn´t start my druid until cata came out |
| 22:54.44 | Stormscape | Now you never see druids anymore |
| 22:54.54 | Stormscape | Because they were only good for their rez |
| 22:55.10 | Ward | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Wardinary/advanced |
| 22:55.19 | Ward | I raid more on my druid than on my mage |
| 22:55.34 | Ward | it helps that I´m a tank/healer |
| 22:55.40 | Ward | can fit me into any slot |
| 22:56.08 | Stormscape | We have 11 85 druids in our guild of 77 characters. Only 4 of them aren't abandoned alts |
| 22:56.34 | Ward | yeah I´m the only one in my guild on active raid status |
| 22:56.50 | Stormscape | Nobody plays druids anymore, they're only good for gathering professions |
| 22:56.51 | Ward | but I pretty much have a guaranteed spot in any raid |
| 22:56.59 | Ward | resto druids are still very powerful if played right |
| 22:57.21 | Stormscape | We have 0 raiding warriors |
| 22:57.25 | Ward | resto druid healing is pretty complex atm |
| 22:57.27 | Stormscape | Because warriors are worthless |
| 22:57.36 | Ward | it´s not just spamming Wild Growth anymore |
| 22:57.52 | Ward | warriors are decent MTs |
| 22:58.10 | Stormscape | or you can bring a DK or Paladin |
| 22:58.12 | Ward | we have 1 warrior tank, he´s the most pleasant to heal of all our tanks |
| 22:58.23 | Ward | might just be because the dude has skills though |
| 22:58.28 | Stormscape | Most likely |
| 22:58.30 | Ward | he´s been our MT seen AQ |
| 22:58.40 | Ward | since |
| 22:58.41 | Stormscape | I knew a warrior in TBC who AoE tanked Heroic Shattered Halls |
| 22:58.44 | Stormscape | as a warrior. |
| 22:58.57 | Amarande | I tried starting a druid a couple times but never really got far before going back to another character |
| 22:58.58 | Stormscape | He was stance dancing and tabbing like a motherfucker |
| 22:59.09 | Ward | it was hard back then |
| 22:59.14 | Amarande | HSH ... that must have been the baptism by fire for a warrior tank |
| 22:59.17 | Ward | nowadays warriors just bleed and thunderclap |
| 22:59.19 | Stormscape | The worst part about being a druid is unless you're a healer you'll never see your gear |
| 22:59.36 | Ward | yeah on my druid I heal MS, gear up like a mofo |
| 22:59.37 | Amarande | Stormscape: that will at least partially change in MoP |
| 22:59.45 | Ward | and then spend the rest of the expansion gathering agi gear for tanking |
| 22:59.50 | Amarande | hunters will no longer be getting statsticks |
| 22:59.58 | Amarande | so it will only be druids vs. monks for polearms |
| 23:00.05 | Ward | I don´t mind sharing agi sticks with hunters |
| 23:00.12 | Amarande | (monks pretty much use anything, right?) |
| 23:00.13 | Ward | it´s only 2 classes |
| 23:00.20 | Ward | there´s way more competition for healing staves |
| 23:00.27 | Stormscape | you want somebody to feel bad for? Mages on their tier token. |
| 23:00.33 | Ward | dude |
| 23:00.36 | Stormscape | compete with 2 tank classes |
| 23:00.52 | Ward | we play mages, we know how mages always get shafted on the tokens |
| 23:01.00 | Stormscape | or warlocks |
| 23:01.05 | Ward | ever since TBC we´ve always gotten the shittiest share |
| 23:01.20 | Ward | we´re also always on a 4 class token, vs the 3 class tokens |
| 23:01.25 | Stormscape | priest tokens are the best |
| 23:01.29 | Stormscape | Paladin Priest Warlock |
| 23:01.33 | Ward | blizz says the droprate balances it out, but it doesn´t work like that |
| 23:01.53 | Amarande | heh, actually priest tokens sucked for us |
| 23:01.57 | Amarande | because Paladin Priest Warlock |
| 23:02.03 | Stormscape | I think they should add a check where if none of the classes are in the raid, that token can't drop |
| 23:02.10 | Amarande | and I think we usually had two paladins and two priests |
| 23:02.15 | Stormscape | we kept getting Warrior Hunter Shaman tokens in DS last week |
| 23:02.42 | Stormscape | and we're just like |
| 23:02.43 | Amarande | and then Warrior Hunter Shaman sucked because we had like, one warrior (and not always), and basically never a hunter or shaman (this is also why we got inordinate amounts of ranged weapon and mail drops :P) |
| 23:02.44 | Stormscape | :|:|:|:| |
| 23:02.57 | Amarande | the other one is mage druid deathknight rogue, then? |
| 23:03.00 | Stormscape | Yup |
| 23:03.07 | Amarande | yeah, that one was annoying for us, too |
| 23:03.07 | Stormscape | mages and rogues = get fucked |
| 23:03.27 | Stormscape | I wonder which token Monk will get put on |
| 23:03.35 | Amarande | Our usual raid in ICC10 as I remember: Four druids, two priests, two pallies, a mage, and a DK |
| 23:03.36 | Stormscape | I hope it's Warrior Hunter Shaman |
| 23:03.45 | Amarande | Token *hell*, heh |
| 23:03.52 | Stormscape | Then maybe somebody will actually use that token |
| 23:03.53 | Stormscape | we have |
| 23:03.55 | Stormscape | 1 raiding shaman |
| 23:04.01 | Amarande | one type of token was useless and the other two each was needed by half the raid |
| 23:04.02 | Stormscape | He's got full 397 of every set |
| 23:05.07 | Amarande | Of course, it also meant that if we had a sole-survivor near-wipe, we had an 80% chance of it being someone who could get the raid back on its feet without having to walk all the way back |
| 23:05.27 | Stormscape | as if you had to walk far in ICC anyway |
| 23:05.42 | Ward | at least LFR won´t have token issues in MoP |
| 23:05.46 | Ward | with their new loot system |
| 23:05.48 | Ward | I like it |
| 23:05.49 | Amarande | Stormscape: it meant no having to worry about accidents from failing at dodging val'kyr by moving too hastily |
| 23:05.54 | Ward | I´m always lucky on rolls, but never on drops |
| 23:05.57 | Stormscape | How does LFR work in Mists? |
| 23:06.08 | Ward | after a boss dies, everybody gets to roll once |
| 23:06.21 | Ward | and the 5 highest rollers get an item specifically for their class |
| 23:06.26 | Stormscape | wat |
| 23:06.26 | Ward | so loot is generated after the roll |
| 23:06.34 | Stormscape | fucking Mists of Casualia |
| 23:06.43 | Amarande | I thought everyone in the raid got loot, or did they change that? |
| 23:06.57 | Ward | not everybody gets loot |
| 23:07.11 | Amarande | Stormscape: careful, now you're starting to sound like that guy in the thread about head enchants on the wow boards |
| 23:07.12 | Ward | but there will also be more VP per boss and more VP items |
| 23:07.15 | Ward | so it´s easier to get loot |
| 23:07.22 | Stormscape | Amarande, they need to bring back more grinds |
| 23:07.33 | Amarande | the one who QQed about how WoW was "degenerating into a bunch of minigames for people who can only play the game 3 hours a week" or some such |
| 23:07.37 | Ward | what they need to bring back, is the attunement |
| 23:07.44 | Amarande | I noted that his character name, guild name, and server name were all extremely appropriate |
| 23:07.46 | Ward | old school like in SSC/TK/Hyjal |
| 23:07.50 | Ward | before it got nerfed |
| 23:08.02 | Stormscape | every raid needs an AQ opening |
| 23:08.17 | Stormscape | grind until you cry |
| 23:08.20 | Stormscape | then keep grinding |
| 23:08.36 | Amarande | Stormscape, this is WoW, not a Korean free-to-play MMO :) |
| 23:09.09 | Stormscape | No, this isn't WoW. TBC was WoW. Vanilla was WoW. This is a creepy stalker who skinned WoW and is pretending it's WoW. |
| 23:09.39 | Amarande | so, basically, you feel that it's right for people to have to treat the game as a second (or in this economy maybe even third) job in order to see content? |
| 23:09.43 | Amarande | that doesn't seem quite right |
| 23:10.06 | Amarande | especially since so much of the content during an expansion is, indeed, the raids |
| 23:10.34 | Amarande | it really doesn't make sense to make such a large percentage of a game's content be stuff that 5% of the player base reasonably has the opportunity to see |
| 23:10.39 | Amarande | which was so often the case in the days of yore |
| 23:11.13 | Ward | Amarande has a point |
| 23:11.16 | Mr_Rabies | time-wasting was a feature of classic wow, indeed, but i don't think much of the population actually enjoyed it |
| 23:11.21 | Ward | I was slacking off in college during vanilla and tbc |
| 23:11.26 | Ward | now I have a job |
| 23:11.26 | Stormscape | The game is too easy. My warrior hit 85 and within 3 days was Top 10 in DPS in Dragon Soul. I wasn't carried through anything, I did a few Heroics, bought an offhand off the AH and suddenly bam it's a "raiding" character. |
| 23:11.28 | Ward | and another job |
| 23:11.35 | Ward | I don´t have time for grinds |
| 23:11.44 | Mr_Rabies | you better be top 10 |
| 23:11.48 | Amarande | with the vanilla/TBC style, what happens to the people with jobs, then, or who get into the game too late in the expansion to catch up to the gear level that people on the server expect of them in a group, when they hit max level? |
| 23:11.50 | Mr_Rabies | seeing as there's only 10 or 25 players D: |
| 23:11.51 | *** join/#wowhead Primar (~nnscript@host86-175-212-169.wlms-broadband.com) |
| 23:12.02 | Ward | Stormscape, my rogue hit 85, I pvp´d for 2 days, got 390 pvp gear, got a muti pvp spec |
| 23:12.06 | Ward | and topped the dps in LFR |
| 23:12.14 | Ward | 3 days after dinging |
| 23:12.25 | Amarande | there's also, oddly enough, from what I saw of some reactions by women players and their friends to a Nihilum post which turned out to be a joke |
| 23:12.25 | Mr_Rabies | good |
| 23:12.28 | Mr_Rabies | that's how it should be |
| 23:12.34 | Ward | meanwhile rogues in tier gear were straggling |
| 23:12.42 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, it's too quick |
| 23:12.42 | Amarande | a case to suggest that vanilla/TBC style hardcore play can actually encourage, of all things, misogyny and sexism |
| 23:12.44 | Mr_Rabies | get a character geared quickly and get ready to have fun |
| 23:12.49 | Stormscape | You shouldn't be able to raid instantly |
| 23:12.54 | Mr_Rabies | sure you should |
| 23:12.59 | Stormscape | There's no sense of progress or achievement |
| 23:13.03 | Stormscape | if it's all handed to you instantly |
| 23:13.04 | Mr_Rabies | sure there is |
| 23:13.14 | Mr_Rabies | working your way to heroic madness is a lot of fun |
| 23:13.20 | Ward | the only sense of achievement I have is that my mage is about to break 12k achievement points |
| 23:13.26 | Ward | but even that they´re taking away in MoP |
| 23:13.33 | Stormscape | I already stopped playing my warrior because there's nothing to do |
| 23:13.37 | Ward | letting all the casuals with FotM alts get their points merged |
| 23:13.43 | Amarande | Ward: that's because rogues are built to turn targets into bacon, and PvP gear just makes them even better at that |
| 23:13.47 | Stormscape | No sense in running Heroics her gear is good enough for Normal Mode |
| 23:13.55 | Ward | yeah that´s true |
| 23:13.55 | Mr_Rabies | care to link your warrior? |
| 23:14.03 | Stormscape | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuluhed/Vordie/advanced |
| 23:14.06 | Amarande | apparently, Nihilum once made some sort of post that said something like that women need not apply |
| 23:14.24 | Amarande | it was some sort of internal joking banter between members that got posted publicly by accident from what I read |
| 23:14.26 | Amarande | but |
| 23:14.34 | Amarande | it did spark some pretty interesting discussions about that factor |
| 23:14.57 | Mr_Rabies | >haven't seen past hagara on LFR even |
| 23:15.02 | Mr_Rabies | >nothing left to do |
| 23:15.04 | Mr_Rabies | what |
| 23:15.07 | Amarande | namely: someone said that in guilds dominated by the "stereotypical WoW gamer" type of man, just the presence of a woman can cause drama even if she doesn't actually do anything to provoke it |
| 23:15.16 | Amarande | the extension of this in the design of an MMO is this: |
| 23:15.29 | Amarande | you encourage things to be too hardcore, what you're actually going to encourage is that very type of gamer |
| 23:15.50 | Amarande | because if you make it too hard for people with lives, interests, jobs, outside of WoW to get into content |
| 23:15.57 | Amarande | then that's what's going to be left behind *able to* play the content |
| 23:16.04 | Mr_Rabies | you guys need better GMs if drama's a concern |
| 23:16.06 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, wiping for weeks in LFR as people don't understand fight mechanics is not my idea of fun |
| 23:16.27 | Mr_Rabies | so get a group with friends |
| 23:16.47 | Amarande | I've never really seen it happen myself, but I can see the typical pimply faced basement teenager stereotype guild being rent by drama if it wasn't kept a strict boys' club |
| 23:17.07 | Stormscape | I've never met a good raid guild that hasn't had an age restriction |
| 23:17.10 | Amarande | the point I was making though is, if you demand too many hours a week to be able to pull your weight in raiding |
| 23:17.19 | Mr_Rabies | complaining that it's too easy to gear up, then stopping before you're anywhere near what i'd consider geared up because it's gonna take too long is a bit messed up |
| 23:17.24 | Amarande | you're going to push the playerbase demographic away from mature players and towards that very sort of player |
| 23:17.40 | Amarande | with the result that the design may actually come to justify bad behaviour |
| 23:17.44 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, that gear is good enough for Normal mode DS |
| 23:17.52 | Stormscape | No sense in throwing away gold in LFR |
| 23:17.58 | Mr_Rabies | well do that then |
| 23:18.06 | Stormscape | ...it's like talking to a wall. |
| 23:18.22 | Mr_Rabies | i don't do LFR myself anymore because i've no reason to |
| 23:18.45 | Stormscape | I did LFR on my priest all of 4 times |
| 23:18.57 | Stormscape | then I got 397 gear and didn't need it anymore |
| 23:19.01 | Mr_Rabies | it's really meant to just get you some extra gear to supplant the gear you get from 5 mans |
| 23:19.22 | Mr_Rabies | then once you're good to go, do normal modes mostly |
| 23:19.40 | Mr_Rabies | then your raid group will be ready for heroics |
| 23:19.52 | Stormscape | Amarande, seriously though, I've never seen any decent raid guild that doesn't have a minimum age requirement |
| 23:19.56 | Stormscape | some of them as high as 25 |
| 23:20.16 | Mr_Rabies | understandable |
| 23:20.28 | Mr_Rabies | 25 may be a bit high |
| 23:20.33 | Stormscape | No kidding |
| 23:20.35 | Mr_Rabies | but 18 makes sense |
| 23:20.36 | Stormscape | my current guild is 20+ |
| 23:20.39 | Stormscape | no exceptions |
| 23:21.06 | Mr_Rabies | ours doesn't really have one, but if you're annoying you'll be booted |
| 23:21.14 | Mr_Rabies | and our raid groups are generally the same every week |
| 23:21.39 | Stormscape | We go through a lot of tanks |
| 23:21.45 | Mr_Rabies | and if you're not able to make our raid times every week (or near that, emergencies are understandable) you won't be in the main raid group |
| 23:21.53 | Stormscape | At some point, all of them will do something really fucking stupid like get in an argument with the GM |
| 23:21.56 | Stormscape | and either leave or get kicked |
| 23:22.11 | Mr_Rabies | your GM needs to do better at recruitment then |
| 23:22.22 | Mr_Rabies | those types of people tend to be obvious before they even step foot in a raid |
| 23:22.27 | Jammer | maybe your GM should tank then :p |
| 23:22.39 | Stormscape | Jammer he did multiple times in Wrath |
| 23:22.42 | Stormscape | and he hated every second of it |
| 23:22.48 | Stormscape | He would be swearing at us |
| 23:23.02 | Mr_Rabies | he shouldn't do something he doesn't like |
| 23:23.06 | Stormscape | He's a very hateful person |
| 23:23.12 | Mr_Rabies | i made the guild pay for 2x reforges last time they made me tank :v |
| 23:23.21 | Mr_Rabies | 2000g or so |
| 23:23.24 | Stormscape | Yeah it's his alt. |
| 23:23.35 | Ward | we recruit 18+ |
| 23:23.44 | Ward | we have two or three members below the limit |
| 23:23.55 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, it makes sense, 18+ year olds tend to have scheduling conflicts more often |
| 23:23.56 | Ward | but mostly those are the younger siblings of some of our female members |
| 23:24.17 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 23:24.20 | Mr_Rabies | less often |
| 23:24.32 | Ward | we have this 15 year old dude who´s the little bro of our healing officer, he plays a kickass holy paladin |
| 23:24.40 | Ward | big bro trained him |
| 23:24.41 | Mr_Rabies | if mom says you can't use the computer because your grades suck, it's not really good for the raid |
| 23:24.52 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: I would expect 18+ year olds to have scheduling conflicts more often |
| 23:24.56 | Ward | we also have a lot of couples in the guild |
| 23:24.59 | Ward | at least 6 |
| 23:25.11 | Amarande | employers aren't likely to take too kindly to people saying they can't work this, this, and this day because of gaming hours |
| 23:25.41 | Stormscape | That's why they join a raid guild that fits their days off |
| 23:25.42 | Stormscape | jeez |
| 23:25.46 | Stormscape | that's why less conflicts |
| 23:25.52 | Ward | in my company we regard gaming the same as any personal social activity you might wanna do after work |
| 23:26.02 | Ward | some people go to a party, or to their sportsclub |
| 23:26.04 | Amarande | Stormscape: unless you work a job like retail where frequently you're forced to work wildly varying hours that differ from week to week |
| 23:26.04 | Ward | some people game |
| 23:26.29 | BlackNet | http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/v/knife-making/anvils/IMG_6703.JPG.html new hammer and new tongs! fuck yea! |
| 23:26.34 | Stormscape | I once told my boss on Wednesdays I might be up to half an hour late |
| 23:26.35 | Stormscape | "why" |
| 23:26.38 | Stormscape | "world of warcraft" |
| 23:26.44 | Stormscape | "okay as long as you're not killing hookers" |
| 23:26.53 | Amarande | which for instance is why I didn't really get to raid until ICC |
| 23:27.02 | Mr_Rabies | <Amarande> Stormscape: unless you work a job like retail where frequently you're forced to work wildly varying hours that differ from week to week |
| 23:27.09 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, I work retail |
| 23:27.10 | Mr_Rabies | these type of people likely wouldn't be in our main group |
| 23:27.19 | Amarande | during TBC, my work schedule wasn't as reliably towards the same time of day as it is now |
| 23:27.20 | Stormscape | well |
| 23:27.20 | Stormscape | only sorta |
| 23:27.34 | Mr_Rabies | unfortunately, a steady schedule is necessary to progress at any kind of sane rate |
| 23:27.38 | Ward | I was in college when I was playing hardcore |
| 23:27.42 | Ward | and I was doing my internship |
| 23:27.44 | Stormscape | my hours change every week, but I told my boss which days of the week I'll be half hour late |
| 23:27.49 | Ward | which was solid 9 to 6 |
| 23:27.50 | Stormscape | and he doesn't care |
| 23:27.51 | Amarande | now except for Sundays I only rarely work in the evenings, so if I choose to raid I have much more availability |
| 23:27.51 | Stormscape | cause fuck |
| 23:27.53 | Stormscape | only 30 minutes |
| 23:27.55 | Mr_Rabies | we're not pushing progression (we're only 6/8 heroic at this point) but changing roster every week basically ruins all progression |
| 23:28.14 | Stormscape | So should I order pizza |
| 23:28.20 | Stormscape | I've been eating a lot of pizza lately |
| 23:28.21 | Ward | those were exhausting days, leave for work at 8 AM, get home at 7 PM, eat, raid til 1 AM, sleep for 6 hours, and then reset |
| 23:28.23 | Ward | 5 days a week |
| 23:28.33 | Ward | I kept that up for about 4 months |
| 23:28.38 | Ward | during TBC |
| 23:28.39 | *** join/#wowhead Primar|Home (~nnscript@host86-175-209-98.wlms-broadband.com) |
| 23:28.55 | Mr_Rabies | i used to raid 6-8 hours a night in high school :D |
| 23:28.59 | Mr_Rabies | never again |
| 23:29.02 | Mr_Rabies | i'm glad those days are over |
| 23:29.14 | Mr_Rabies | it was fun then, but i'm glad that's no longer a requirement |
| 23:29.17 | Amarande | yeah, no more staying up past 12-1 for me for raiding either |
| 23:29.29 | Stormscape | during TBC the only reason I wasn't in the top progression guild on my server was because I couldn't raid until 2am |
| 23:29.43 | Stormscape | they spent 2 expansions trying to recruit me |
| 23:29.53 | Mr_Rabies | i got so burned out on raiding in classic that i barely raided in tbc |
| 23:30.04 | Stormscape | yeah I started playing in 2.0 |
| 23:30.06 | Mr_Rabies | now i'm having more fun than i've had in years |
| 23:30.28 | Mr_Rabies | because i'm not dealing with 20+ people who can't play their damned class anymore |
| 23:30.29 | Stormscape | looks like I might need to replace my mousepad soon |
| 23:30.33 | Mr_Rabies | shit's refined |
| 23:30.38 | Stormscape | I can't stand 10 man raiding |
| 23:30.39 | Stormscape | So boring |
| 23:30.46 | Mr_Rabies | i don't use a mousepad, but i once had a ratzpad |
| 23:30.50 | Mr_Rabies | it was nice |
| 23:31.03 | Stormscape | for me the mousepad is so my wrist doesn't hurt from sitting on the desk for hours |
| 23:31.06 | Stormscape | mousepads are nice and soft |
| 23:31.15 | Mr_Rabies | 10 man is a lot of fun, because your group is really tight knit |
| 23:31.27 | Mr_Rabies | there are problems when one person is fucking up though, since there's way less room for errors in 10m |
| 23:31.29 | Stormscape | I've never found 10 man raiding to be very... exciting. |
| 23:32.18 | Mr_Rabies | 10 man can tend to turn into 9 people being a jerk to 1, but if your raid leader is any good it should be a non-issue |
| 23:32.46 | Stormscape | I just can't find 10 man raiding exciting at all. It feels too empty |
| 23:33.00 | Stormscape | Nothing's really going on |
| 23:33.09 | Mr_Rabies | it's more intense for me |
| 23:33.18 | Stormscape | I once feel asleep during a 10 man raid |
| 23:33.24 | Stormscape | nobody noticed |
| 23:33.25 | Mr_Rabies | 25 has so many more chances for you to fuck up that it's not any fun to me |
| 23:33.37 | Stormscape | see that's exactly why it's fun for me |
| 23:33.58 | Jamash | 10 is the best because you can do it in a much smaller guild |
| 23:33.58 | Mr_Rabies | i play softcore hours, but i want the time inside the raid to be semi-hardcore at least |
| 23:35.06 | Mr_Rabies | i certainly don't miss 40 mans though |
| 23:35.17 | Mr_Rabies | too many people look at older content through rose-tinted glasses |
| 23:36.02 | Mr_Rabies | tbc's attunement/gear grind was terrible, and part of why i only did karazhan and gruul |
| 23:36.16 | *** join/#wowhead JunkHead (JunkHead@173-16-67-182.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:36.33 | Stormscape | I was almost done my TK attunement when they removed it |
| 23:36.38 | Stormscape | that actually really pissed me off |
| 23:36.49 | Mr_Rabies | wrath did the grind a bit better, but it was still easy to get caught in a pit of non-progression |
| 23:36.50 | Corgan | rolleyes |
| 23:37.09 | Corgan | attunements were dumb |
| 23:37.15 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, the problem with Cataclysm is there's no progression |
| 23:37.17 | Mr_Rabies | where you couldn't progress because your gear wasn't good enough to get into any raids people ran |
| 23:37.19 | Stormscape | there's just "the current raid" |
| 23:37.28 | Stormscape | everything else sits abandoned |
| 23:37.30 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 23:37.32 | Mr_Rabies | as it should be |
| 23:37.36 | Stormscape | No that's terrible |
| 23:37.39 | Corgan | no, it's not |
| 23:37.50 | Mr_Rabies | forcing people to gear up in the older raids means anyone that missed a tier is done for the rest of the expansion |
| 23:37.51 | Corgan | outdated content bro |
| 23:37.54 | Mr_Rabies | because no one ran older raids anyway |
| 23:37.57 | Corgan | ^ |
| 23:37.58 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: that was in LK largely the fault of a company called Master Games International, Inc |
| 23:38.05 | Mr_Rabies | so you'd just have fewer and fewer people progressing each tier |
| 23:38.05 | Amarande | Let's all point at MGI and extend our left middle finger |
| 23:38.44 | Amarande | actually, plenty of groups ran kara in TBC even up to the end |
| 23:38.52 | Mr_Rabies | not on my realm |
| 23:38.53 | Stormscape | There was never a shortage of people running old content during TBC and Wrath |
| 23:38.59 | Mr_Rabies | basically if you weren't in the top tier, you didn't raid |
| 23:39.02 | Amarande | I think it was T5 that mostly became the black hole, and even then probably not too often because people wanted the mount |
| 23:39.03 | Stormscape | in fact it was easier to find old content raids during TBC |
| 23:39.06 | Mr_Rabies | because you could not gear up |
| 23:39.27 | Stormscape | So you're blaming the problems of your shitty realm on the game |
| 23:39.29 | Amarande | and if you hit 70 as DPS late in the expansion you just didn't get to do anything |
| 23:39.43 | Mr_Rabies | it's a terrible way to do things |
| 23:39.44 | Amarande | because you needed raid gear to go to heroics and heroic gear to get ready for raids |
| 23:40.08 | Mr_Rabies | i did 5 mans until about ZA, then quit for 2 years |
| 23:40.17 | Mr_Rabies | because i couldn't get into raids |
| 23:40.20 | Amarande | and crafted gear wasn't as robust as it is now |
| 23:40.30 | Stormscape | I found it so much easier to get into pug raids in TBC |
| 23:40.32 | Stormscape | than in Wrath |
| 23:40.32 | Amarande | unless you specifically took the one profession that matched your character's armour type |
| 23:40.35 | Mr_Rabies | what |
| 23:40.42 | Mr_Rabies | pug raiding was way, way easier in wrath |
| 23:40.43 | Corgan | lol |
| 23:40.45 | Mr_Rabies | we had like |
| 23:40.47 | Stormscape | haha no |
| 23:40.51 | Corgan | storm is trolling |
| 23:40.53 | Mr_Rabies | 10-12 pugs a week |
| 23:40.55 | Stormscape | every day: spam for Kara and Gruul's Lair |
| 23:40.57 | Stormscape | all day long |
| 23:41.00 | Stormscape | during Wrath: nothing |
| 23:41.05 | Stormscape | maybe occasional Naxx |
| 23:41.08 | Corgan | rofl |
| 23:41.10 | Stormscape | that inevitable failed at thaddius |
| 23:41.10 | Corgan | trolling so hard |
| 23:41.18 | Amarande | Stormscape: until late in the expansion and then they wanted you to have heroic 25 gear to run normal 10 |
| 23:41.22 | Mr_Rabies | people were running naxx up until the week cata came out every week on my realm |
| 23:41.25 | Stormscape | Amarande, people always say that |
| 23:41.28 | Stormscape | but I never saw that |
| 23:41.28 | Stormscape | ever |
| 23:41.29 | Amarande | enforced thanks to Master Games Int'l and their piece of crap called GS |
| 23:41.37 | Mr_Rabies | what's MGI, Amarande |
| 23:41.40 | Mr_Rabies | i see chess things |
| 23:41.55 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: the idiots that inflicted GearScore(R) (yes, it's a registered trademark) on the community |
| 23:42.08 | Corgan | rolleyes |
| 23:42.09 | Mr_Rabies | can't really blame gearscore |
| 23:42.11 | Stormscape | I've never actually seen somebody use gearscore in a serious context |
| 23:42.14 | Corgan | gearscore was a good addition to the game |
| 23:42.16 | Corgan | if used properly |
| 23:42.16 | Mr_Rabies | blame the community |
| 23:42.28 | Mr_Rabies | gearscore just made it easier to tell how geared someone was |
| 23:42.29 | Mr_Rabies | that being said |
| 23:42.34 | Stormscape | Mr_Rabies, not really |
| 23:42.42 | Amarande | Stormscape: most PUGs used it as the primary yardstick for whether you got in |
| 23:42.46 | Stormscape | as a warrior could wear full healer plate and get a huge gearscore |
| 23:42.49 | Corgan | sigh |
| 23:43.00 | Amarande | Stormscape: or PvP instead of PvE gear |
| 23:43.03 | Mr_Rabies | i geared up to clear portions of heroic ICC between may 2010 and about august |
| 23:43.04 | Corgan | if used properly |
| 23:43.15 | Stormscape | Amarande, never saw that ever |
| 23:43.16 | Corgan | also, on the subject of pugs |
| 23:43.16 | Amarande | which is still a problem with cata, in fact it may be a little exacerbated with cata since they've consistently given PvP gear higher ilvls now |
| 23:43.23 | Corgan | I pugged heroic 10 LK |
| 23:43.27 | Corgan | before the cata patch |
| 23:43.30 | Stormscape | >they've consistently given PvP gear higher ilvls now |
| 23:43.32 | Stormscape | lolwat |
| 23:43.36 | Amarande | (I'm guessing to get the stat budge in order to fit the ever inflating amounts of Resilience Rating needed?) |
| 23:43.43 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 23:43.56 | Mr_Rabies | it's not really a big deal for most classes though, as long as ALL your gear isn't pvp gear |
| 23:44.03 | Mr_Rabies | skill trumps gear in cata |
| 23:44.06 | Mr_Rabies | that's how it should be |
| 23:44.18 | Mr_Rabies | gear's just a means to an end now |
| 23:44.20 | Mr_Rabies | as it should be |
| 23:44.31 | Amarande | now one thing I've pondered that might be an interesting idea |
| 23:44.41 | Amarande | would be for them to just go the LOTRO skirmish route for handing gear out |
| 23:44.55 | Mr_Rabies | with the exception of normal mode DS, raiding in cata has been a lot more skill-driven |
| 23:44.57 | Mr_Rabies | and a lot less gear-driven |
| 23:45.01 | Stormscape | forgive my ignorance, but I haven't seen PvP gear with higher iLevels than PvE gear |
| 23:45.06 | Stormscape | could you show me an example? |
| 23:45.12 | Stormscape | course, I don't PvP so there's that. |
| 23:45.13 | Mr_Rabies | are you even playing the same game as us, Stormscape |
| 23:45.21 | Mr_Rabies | are you sure you're not thinking of like |
| 23:45.33 | Mr_Rabies | wizard 101 or something |
| 23:45.39 | Stormscape | Well I don't see any PvP weapons with iLevels higher than 416 |
| 23:45.43 | Stormscape | I see a bunch of 410s |
| 23:45.45 | Stormscape | but that's it |
| 23:45.58 | Stormscape | and 410 is same as Heroic DS |
| 23:46.12 | Mr_Rabies | heroic |
| 23:46.53 | Corgan | lol, the 410 pvp gear requires a shitton of work to get |
| 23:46.58 | Stormscape | that too |
| 23:47.17 | Corgan | And they're equivalent to pve gear |
| 23:47.20 | Corgan | they're not overinflated |
| 23:47.37 | Amarande | apparently, basic arena epics have been equal ilvl to the concurrent Heroic tier, rather than to the concurrent normal tier |
| 23:47.45 | Corgan | blinks |
| 23:47.49 | Stormscape | and the armour appears to be 403 |
| 23:47.51 | Stormscape | not even 410 |
| 23:47.52 | Corgan | really, please point one out to me |
| 23:47.56 | Stormscape | so the PvP gear is actually lower level |
| 23:47.59 | Mr_Rabies | it's not really that big of a deal |
| 23:48.02 | Corgan | show me the BASIC arena epics |
| 23:48.09 | Mr_Rabies | the pvp gear isn't as bad as people make it out to be |
| 23:48.16 | Corgan | basic != heroic tier 11 pvp gear |
| 23:48.18 | Mr_Rabies | with the exception of tanks and possibly healers |
| 23:48.20 | Corgan | or, not heroic |
| 23:48.25 | Corgan | elite |
| 23:48.26 | Amarande | at least if I remember how it was originally planned to be. |
| 23:48.28 | Corgan | http://www.wowhead.com/item=73414 |
| 23:48.30 | Amarande | ah, it was changed, then |
| 23:48.42 | Corgan | It was never that way |
| 23:48.45 | Amarande | when Cata came out, I remember reading on item levels that the PvP gear would have higher ilvl than the raid gear available at the same time |
| 23:49.02 | Mr_Rabies | it tends to have higher ilvl than normal modes |
| 23:49.06 | Mr_Rabies | that's okay |
| 23:49.14 | Mr_Rabies | by a few ilvls |
| 23:49.20 | Stormscape | 397 is actually lower than normal modes if you get a reg Madness weapon |
| 23:49.28 | Mr_Rabies | madness is an exception |
| 23:49.33 | Mr_Rabies | it's the final boss of an expansion |
| 23:49.41 | Stormscape | and what a letdown of a final boss |
| 23:49.42 | Stormscape | jesus christ |
| 23:49.51 | Mr_Rabies | madness was pretty damned tough until the nerfs started |
| 23:50.04 | Mr_Rabies | it was fun, way more fun than ragnaros |
| 23:50.10 | Mr_Rabies | ragnaros was just a waste of time |
| 23:50.17 | Stormscape | >implying any Vanilla bosses were fun |
| 23:50.22 | Corgan | god damn you people are your cynical thoughts |
| 23:50.27 | Corgan | and your* |
| 23:50.29 | Mr_Rabies | yes |
| 23:50.42 | Mr_Rabies | because i'm obviously talking about mc's ragnaros |
| 23:51.06 | Mr_Rabies | we didn't even pull heroic ragnaros once, because the fight took so long on normal, we just didn't really even care, lol |
| 23:51.22 | Mr_Rabies | we cleared all of FL heroic in about 2 hours by the end of the tier, except rag |
| 23:51.35 | Mr_Rabies | we just killed him on normal if at all |
| 23:51.52 | Mr_Rabies | it's fun to learn, but after that it's tedious |
| 23:51.57 | Mr_Rabies | the rest of FL is a lot of fun though |
| 23:51.58 | Ceirnian | Oooo, busy day. |
| 23:53.01 | Amarande | Stormscape: isn't Madness mostly just a letdown because Spine is tough as nails? |
| 23:53.26 | Mr_Rabies | he's talking lfr or normal or something |
| 23:53.27 | Stormscape | Madness is a let down because it's just a really convuluted whack a mole |
| 23:53.35 | Corgan | blols |
| 23:53.46 | Amarande | although Spine being tough as nails is not all that odd as a paradigm |
| 23:54.08 | Amarande | it's not all that uncommon in a game for the next-to-last encounter to be the real doozy |
| 23:54.47 | Mr_Rabies | how far progressed is your most progressed character, Stormscape? |
| 23:55.00 | Stormscape | 3/8 H |
| 23:56.43 | Mr_Rabies | then why are you complaining that it's too easy to gear up? it's not like you're done progressing yet |
| 23:57.01 | Mr_Rabies | if it's just not fun to you anymore then it is what it is, but don't blame the wrong thing |
| 23:58.35 | Corgan | LOL what |
| 23:58.45 | Corgan | Storm, you're saying madness is a letdown and you havn't even done it on heroic yet? |
| 23:59.17 | Corgan | m-m-m-m-mega troll |
| 23:59.25 | Stormscape | schwoopy loopy arms.png |
| 23:59.45 | Stormscape | and I prefer monster troll |
