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| 04:13.12 | Myrroddin | reloadui Torhal's cats |
| 04:16.52 | Torhal | All that did was increase their scale. |
| 04:20.09 | Fisker | Hey Torhal |
| 04:20.27 | Torhal | Hey Fisker |
| 04:20.30 | Torhal | Hogtie Myrroddin? |
| 04:20.37 | Fisker | Nope |
| 04:20.40 | Fisker | Fight me? |
| 04:20.48 | Torhal | Nope. |
| 04:21.25 | znf | YOU COULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE LESS VAGUE AND LINKED THIS https://www.alexhudson.com/2017/10/15/wpa2-broken-krack-now/ |
| 04:21.47 | znf | Or: https://www.krackattacks.com/ |
| 04:21.55 | Torhal | links znf to militant gamers. |
| 04:22.12 | Myrroddin | Torhal that is #fakenews |
| 04:22.31 | Torhal | Oh. |
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| 04:24.48 | Myrroddin | Torhal: https://hunet.harding.edu/classes/201610-is-270-01/pvanwink/IS%20270%20Homework/Javascript%20assignment%205_Paiton%20Vanwinkle/SniperKitten.jpeg |
| 04:25.31 | Torhal | So mean. |
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| 10:50.00 | Gnarfoz | znf:Â neither of those existed when he vagued around about that, though |
| 10:55.39 | Phixion | nope Gnarfoz |
| 10:56.11 | Phixion | so the openbsd folk broke the embargo |
| 10:56.15 | Phixion | teehee |
| 10:57.03 | Gnarfoz | nope what? |
| 10:57.18 | Gnarfoz | also, QMX clips are awesome, in case you were wondering |
| 11:01.48 | haste | Phixion: they tend to do that |
| 11:04.17 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: its more efficient with madVR and bitexact (DXVA2-CopyBack was bitexact but inefficient, DXVA2-Native was efficient but not always bitexact), which for 4K and HDR can matter on the efficiency side on mid-range/low-end systems |
| 11:05.05 | Gnarfoz | mh, I thought I recalled you saying that copyback was preferrable to native, at some point (but I don't remember the context, so it might as well have been correct) |
| 11:05.34 | Gnarfoz | anyway, there were just some guys who saw that in the changelog and were wondering what the hell it means/the benefit is/wut ;) |
| 11:05.48 | nevcairiel | they probably shouldnt read pre-release changelogs |
| 11:07.29 | Gnarfoz | yeah, that's what I said xD |
| 11:07.56 | Gnarfoz | (the question is kind of valid regardless, though ;-) "what's this?") |
| 11:08.09 | nevcairiel | copy-back is generally better since its fully exact and more flexible, but when you start dealing with 4k-10bit the required bandwidth can get really high |
| 11:08.38 | Gnarfoz | and this changes this to be the case for native as well? |
| 11:09.18 | nevcairiel | its bitexact in all cases now, although still somewhat unflexible |
| 11:09.39 | Gnarfoz | I see |
| 11:09.46 | nevcairiel | (in all cases = if you use D3D11) |
| 11:12.05 | nevcairiel | for that matter, it requires Win8+, not supported on 7, it has a bit wonky d3d11 support only |
| 11:12.23 | Gnarfoz | guess I should revisit my setup at some point, even though I watch >95% via the Plex app on my TV now |
| 11:12.57 | nevcairiel | for most people convenience wins anyway |
| 11:12.57 | Gnarfoz | and I should figure out why my (work) laptop/desktop doesn't seem to want to use proper black levels unless I use the "overlay" mixer in MPC-HC |
| 11:13.02 | Gnarfoz | which just seems... odd |
| 11:13.58 | nevcairiel | in other news, i learned to appreciate robocopy recently |
| 11:14.14 | nevcairiel | stupid explorer still cant deal with long path names |
| 11:14.57 | nevcairiel | I've been replacing 4 of the oldest drives in my storage server, the last WD greens i was using |
| 11:15.00 | Gnarfoz | backwards compatibility has "backwards" in the name ^^ |
| 11:15.03 | Kalroth | 260 characters minus drive letter prefix is enough for everybody |
| 11:15.34 | Gnarfoz | but yeah, there's plenty of programs that use the API directly to make this a non-problem, thankfully |
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| 11:16.03 | nevcairiel | the stupid part about that is that i'm copying things from C:\Drives\D1\PoolPart.d376bdbb-eadf-4c92-9fbb-889af7ca4bcd\... to some new path, and when its in actual production use, that big prefix just gets replaced with Z:\ |
| 11:16.12 | nevcairiel | so copying individual storage disks is harder then it should be |
| 11:16.22 | Gnarfoz | you know my lazy solution to that? |
| 11:16.41 | Gnarfoz | subst c:\_disks\data1\poolpart.foooooooooooooooooooooooooo\ x: |
| 11:16.49 | nevcairiel | its not like robocopy is much effort |
| 11:16.51 | Gnarfoz | enough to trick explorer into working with it |
| 11:17.10 | nevcairiel | and it even comes with windows |
| 11:17.37 | nevcairiel | it also behaves rsync like, which is nice to verify it afterwards |
| 11:17.55 | Gnarfoz | true, it's probably preferable regardless of the path length issue |
| 11:18.05 | Kalroth | simple, just dont use NTFS! |
| 11:18.15 | nevcairiel | the path is not a NTFS thing |
| 11:18.15 | Gnarfoz | why wouldn't you? this is not an NTFS limitation |
| 11:18.16 | Kalroth | ZFS4LYFE |
| 11:18.19 | Kalroth | oh |
| 11:18.21 | Kalroth | damnit |
| 11:18.22 | Gnarfoz | you sound like znf :P |
| 11:18.35 | nevcairiel | NTFS path limit is like 32k for individual components or something |
| 11:18.40 | Kalroth | yeah |
| 11:19.01 | nevcairiel | actually i was wrong |
| 11:19.03 | Gnarfoz | I still need to come up with some setup that will allow me to keep the same feature level :| Backblaze doesn't support the regular backup from Linux, and doesn't support network drives |
| 11:19.04 | Kalroth | ah, you said explorer, i missed that |
| 11:19.05 | nevcairiel | 32k in total and 255 per component |
| 11:19.08 | Kalroth | why would you use explorer |
| 11:19.11 | nevcairiel | but thats still plenty |
| 11:19.11 | Kalroth | numbnut! |
| 11:19.36 | Kalroth | use total commander, its even a gmbh product like you |
| 11:19.51 | nevcairiel | i really dont like its interface |
| 11:19.53 | Gnarfoz | I prefer Speed Commander |
| 11:19.58 | Kalroth | :o |
| 11:20.05 | Gnarfoz | or well, I used it for a long time, I just stick to Explorer these days, though |
| 11:20.30 | Kalroth | heathens, the lot of ya - total commander interface is how a real filemanager looks! |
| 11:20.35 | Gnarfoz | I almost get the impression that the best solution would be to use Windows on the server... I get to keep using DrivePool and Backblaze, and I'd just need to set up something to back up my desktop onto my server |
| 11:20.39 | nevcairiel | also, i'm kind of annoyed with DrivePool, it lacks an option to just remove a drive from the pool without trying to safe its data first |
| 11:20.57 | Gnarfoz | Speed Commander looks like TC (which is: like Norton Commander), just not as ugly ( |
| 11:21.00 | Kalroth | delete all data then remove, nothing to save |
| 11:21.12 | nevcairiel | so now i just remove it physically and then let DrivePool figure it out |
| 11:21.20 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel:Â I was going to suggest just that, heh |
| 11:21.33 | nevcairiel | actually I put it into offline from windows disk management |
| 11:21.34 | nevcairiel | but same thing |
| 11:21.49 | Gnarfoz | could probably un-hide the poolpart folder, that should make it go missing as well |
| 11:22.00 | nevcairiel | seems doubtful |
| 11:22.03 | nevcairiel | why would that matter |
| 11:22.14 | Kalroth | total commander got a bunch of handy stuff i could never live without, complex search agent, directory synchronization, nice text file comparerer, full zip/7zip/etc. integration and even good ftp support |
| 11:22.25 | nevcairiel | also I tried to rename it, but it didnt let me, must keep a open handle on it |
| 11:22.49 | Gnarfoz | hmm I guess you'd need to stop the service beforehand to do that |
| 11:22.53 | nevcairiel | you cant even temporarily shut down the pool or something |
| 11:22.57 | nevcairiel | disabling the s ervice didnt do that |
| 11:23.08 | nevcairiel | because the driver remains active |
| 11:23.12 | Gnarfoz | true, because it's a filesystem driver, and you can't unload that |
| 11:23.21 | Gnarfoz | so... doing it your way is probably less hassle |
| 11:23.35 | Gnarfoz | but wait, if you're offlining it... how are you moving the files? |
| 11:23.46 | nevcairiel | i copy them first onto a fresh disk |
| 11:23.52 | Kalroth | https://stablebit.com/Support/DrivePool/2.X/Manual?Section=Removing%20a%20Drive%20from%20the%20Pool you got gotta click remove, sheesh |
| 11:23.59 | Gnarfoz | he said that takes ages |
| 11:24.03 | znf | Let me know when it stops looking like shit |
| 11:24.04 | Gnarfoz | (which it does, depending on size) |
| 11:24.11 | nevcairiel | yeah it wants to move the files to the remaining pool disks |
| 11:24.12 | Kalroth | because he copies the files manually |
| 11:24.18 | nevcairiel | which would screw over my snapraid parity |
| 11:24.35 | nevcairiel | so i rather cloen the disk 1:1 to a new one, and the parity remains in tact |
| 11:24.40 | Gnarfoz | no, it'd take long if he *didn't* do it manually :D |
| 11:24.51 | nevcairiel | the copying would probably be about equal |
| 11:24.57 | nevcairiel | but, parity |
| 11:25.06 | Gnarfoz | also, I'd recommend defining your snapraid to be inside the poolpart folders |
| 11:25.10 | nevcairiel | i did that |
| 11:25.11 | Kalroth | get a faster cpu then parity calculations would go faster!! |
| 11:25.21 | nevcairiel | but if files move between discs, parity still kaputt |
| 11:25.31 | Gnarfoz | oh, right |
| 11:25.52 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I guess I did this the same way last time; I don't really remember :D |
| 11:26.04 | Kalroth | i wish btrfs would fix raid 56 |
| 11:26.11 | nevcairiel | its been like 3 years since i last replaced a disk, and i was still on FlexRAID back then |
| 11:26.45 | nevcairiel | (incidentally its probably about the same timeframe since FlexRAID has last seen development) |
| 11:27.17 | Kalroth | the software is done, no further updates needed |
| 11:27.24 | Kalroth | -- said no developer ever |
| 11:27.44 | nevcairiel | FlexRAID 2.1 Final (2015-11-01) |
| 11:27.45 | Gnarfoz | the software is abandoned, no further updates to be expected |
| 11:27.49 | nevcairiel | maybe they meant the "final" |
| 11:27.50 | Gnarfoz | -- way too many developers |
| 11:28.39 | Gnarfoz | they're still selling it, though |
| 11:29.14 | nevcairiel | of course, why stop :D |
| 11:32.54 | Gnarfoz | apropos dead software, looks like mpc-hc at least got some little things even after the "we ded" announcement |
| 11:34.55 | nevcairiel | yeah i dont know why they even posted that |
| 11:37.35 | Gnarfoz | probably because it was just one guy left and he was fed up with being the only one keeping it going |
| 11:38.13 | Gnarfoz | Greek angst > German angst |
| 11:38.40 | Gnarfoz | huh, you're hosting stuff for him, somehow? :D |
| 11:41.42 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel:Â do you use any sas expanders in your setup? |
| 11:42.45 | Kalroth | IBM 1015/1115/1215 for lyfe!! |
| 11:43.15 | Fisker | how can a thing be for life when it's like 3 different things |
| 11:43.26 | Gnarfoz | multiple things for life! |
| 11:44.06 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: no, just a single 8-port sas controller and a mobo with 10 sata ports |
| 11:44.06 | Gnarfoz | (also, that is kind of the wrong answer. A SAS expander would be pointless without a controller, which those are) |
| 11:44.16 | Kalroth | i know, it's a HBA |
| 11:44.17 | Gnarfoz | k, same as me so far, then ^^ |
| 11:44.42 | Kalroth | expanders suck, they channel all disks over the same sata port (usually) |
| 11:44.46 | Kalroth | sas port* |
| 11:45.07 | Gnarfoz | that's my point of confusion, I wonder why so many people use them regardless of the obvious bandwidth bottleneck |
| 11:45.14 | Kalroth | they're cheap |
| 11:45.24 | Gnarfoz | an additional M1115 is cheaper |
| 11:45.49 | Gnarfoz | answer is probably easy: because they don't use a setup that requires use of the full cumulative bandwidth of all attached drives |
| 11:45.51 | Kalroth | yeah, but it requires more PCI bandwidth, expanders doesn't |
| 11:45.53 | Kalroth | :p |
| 11:46.34 | Gnarfoz | arguing for controllers while pointing out that expanders (with limited bandwidth) don't need additional pcie bandwidth seems kind of... confused :P |
| 11:46.36 | Kalroth | eg. you got a 4U rack with 4x M1115, it'll drive up to 32 disks on the HBAs alone |
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| 11:47.10 | Gnarfoz | I guess the only thing I'd gain by using more controllers would be crazy high snapraid sync/scrub speeds |
| 11:47.32 | Kalroth | but if you buy a dumb 4U without anything but drives and an expander, then you can put a bazillion drives on them |
| 11:47.37 | Gnarfoz | that's the only operation that accesses multiple drives at the same time ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 11:47.54 | quiescens | what did you break this time? o.o |
| 11:48.03 | Gnarfoz | wi-fi encryption, quiescens |
| 11:48.11 | quiescens | why did you do that ): |
| 11:48.34 | Gnarfoz | boredom, mostly |
| 11:49.21 | quiescens | thats not very nice |
| 11:51.09 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel:Â looks like he's basically rewriting it... and has been since 2014? and sucks at communicating/doesn't have someone who handles communication for him: http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,3516.0.html |
| 11:53.56 | Gnarfoz | http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,48807.msg75941.html#msg75941 "strange creative space" wut |
| 12:00.56 | Gnarfoz | LSI 9211-8i for 55⬠seems like a good deal |
| 12:03.07 | znf | lol |
| 12:04.37 | Gnarfoz | (also preferable because it has the ports at the small edge of the card, not at the long top edge) |
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| 12:08.19 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: if i were to expand, i would definitely get a second controller over an expander tho |
| 12:08.47 | nevcairiel | but my experience wit hthose cheapo recycled controllers hasnt been all that stellar |
| 12:09.08 | Gnarfoz | recycled? that's a new unused one ^^ |
| 12:09.26 | Gnarfoz | (as was my m1115 back then, has been working fine) |
| 12:09.37 | Gnarfoz | I should check how many pcie ports my old MB has, though ;D |
| 12:09.37 | nevcairiel | werent most of those cheap offers pulled from servers |
| 12:09.55 | Gnarfoz | yeah? but most of them get pulled and replaced before they even start using them |
| 12:10.21 | Gnarfoz | (not exactly sure about that one, I just typed m1015 into ebay and looked at the price landscape ^^) |
| 12:11.02 | nevcairiel | my storage server has a ASUS Z87-WS board, 4 x16 slots with a PLX switch, so plenty room to expand |
| 12:11.25 | Gnarfoz | that's probably quite a bit better than my p6p67-something |
| 12:11.33 | Gnarfoz | I forget that it's called exactly. :P |
| 12:11.58 | nevcairiel | currently only one slot is in use, but i've been thinking about putting a nvidia gpu in there to get their video encoder |
| 12:12.21 | nevcairiel | intels video encoder has a sucky unstable API :( |
| 12:12.53 | Gnarfoz | (that's another thing, since it's a p67 board, it needs a dGPU >_>) |
| 12:13.21 | Gnarfoz | should probably look into picking up a used ASrock rack board with the relevant socket or something |
| 12:15.32 | znf | you should zfs |
| 12:16.37 | Gnarfoz | no, we really shouldn't. :p |
| 12:17.33 | Gnarfoz | no tangible benefit but lots of complexity and some drawbacks added... yep, let me get on that right now! :p |
| 12:18.25 | Gnarfoz | speaking of LSI HBAs, apparently they were popular enough to be faked at some point... I guess IBM M1xx5 might be the safer choice :D |
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| 13:36.11 | Kalroth | https://www.techpowerup.com/237903/noctua-introduces-chromax-line-fans-cables-and-heatsink-covers omg finally i can put colorful noctua fans in my server1! |
| 13:41.42 | quiescens | gives Kalroth a cookie |
| 13:41.53 | Kalroth | dies. |
| 13:42.03 | quiescens | ): |
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| 14:38.27 | Funkeh` | lol, google saying their Android fixes will be in the november patch has to be the biggest "microsoft" I've seen them pull in a while, I'd find it weird that other vendors knew about (and patched) their vulns a month ago yet google somehow didn't know about this. |
| 14:40.42 | Funkeh` | 'microsoft has told some media outlets that it has "issued a patch" without stating which one exactly' still better than google |
| 14:42.53 | quiescens | this wpa2 thing feels silly with how much attention its getting compared to the amount of detail that has been provided |
| 14:43.47 | Funkeh` | it's not silly at all, the deadline isn't for another hour or something |
| 14:43.52 | Fisker | Have you seen them not patch things they were notified about Funkeh` ? |
| 14:44.02 | quiescens | teasing a vulnerability without explaining its scope or extend seems like a good way to cause a lot of panic |
| 14:44.10 | Funkeh` | Fisker, microsoft? yes |
| 14:44.19 | quiescens | i'm not saying the attention is neccesarily bad |
| 14:44.42 | Funkeh` | quiescens, it's to get people to patch prior to release |
| 14:44.44 | quiescens | i'm saying the amount of detail is very lacking by comparison |
| 14:46.26 | Fisker | I mean Google |
| 14:46.58 | Funkeh` | I can't recall anything off the top of my head, that's why Im this surprised at it |
| 14:47.13 | Funkeh` | it's a very microsoft thing to do |
| 14:49.21 | znf | quiescens, they've released the CVEs already |
| 14:49.25 | znf | what more details do you need? |
| 14:49.33 | Funkeh` | have they? |
| 14:50.03 | nevcairiel | he probably didnt bother to click the CVE links |
| 14:50.11 | Fisker | :D |
| 14:50.13 | nevcairiel | because they are not public yet |
| 14:50.20 | Funkeh` | lol |
| 14:51.13 | Funkeh` | it's either in 10min or an hour 10min |
| 14:51.18 | Funkeh` | didn't actually check the timezone |
| 14:51.53 | Fisker | Allegedly they notified Google in late august |
| 14:52.16 | Funkeh` | holy fuck if true |
| 14:52.21 | znf | holy shit 16 notifications on reddit |
| 14:52.47 | znf | oh, my thread about the vulnerability made it to front page |
| 14:52.51 | Fisker | Well everyone was |
| 14:53.16 | znf | oh you're right, they're not public yet |
| 14:53.19 | znf | I was under the impression they are |
| 14:53.29 | Funkeh` | cuz you silly |
| 14:53.30 | Fisker | I wasn't |
| 14:53.32 | quiescens | znf: i don't think there was enough public information given alongside the public announcement, one way or the other |
| 14:53.38 | Fisker | Because we read the shit |
| 14:53.42 | Fisker | Because it's our job |
| 14:55.02 | nevcairiel | there is a big whitepaper about how it works, but i didnt finish reading it |
| 14:55.13 | quiescens | i just think its not great to announce that you are going to talk about a vulnerability in x, and let everyone speculate about what is broken in x for a while before releasing any information about it, people are going to assume a lot of wrong things and report a lot of wrong things, bad information is going to be all over the place |
| 14:55.20 | quiescens | the whitepaper is only out because it got leaked |
| 14:55.25 | Fisker | Oh yeah me neither |
| 14:55.25 | quiescens | or something |
| 14:55.28 | znf | that's why I assumed they were public, I opened the paper when I woke up in bed, but there was too much info |
| 14:55.36 | Funkeh` | there were tidbits of information |
| 14:55.49 | Fisker | Yeah something is up |
| 14:56.00 | Fisker | Coordinated disclosure is possible |
| 14:56.04 | nevcairiel | quiescens: smart people wont jump the gun, dumb people wouldn't have read the information anyway. so not sure it makes a difference that there is half a day of delay =p |
| 14:56.10 | Fisker | And it's worked fine in the past |
| 14:56.46 | quiescens | it looks like for one thing that the attack relies on already having the shared key and is a way to intercept the individually encrypted data of some other host on the network that you already have acess to |
| 14:57.09 | quiescens | which is bad, admittedly, but is not what people initially tried to report |
| 14:57.19 | Funkeh` | I don't really see anything wrong with the current situation compared to outer coordinated disclosures in the past, other than the fact some vendors don't actually have a patch yet |
| 14:57.31 | Funkeh` | s/outer/other |
| 15:04.28 | Fisker | If this is some more of that badblock bullshit I'm gonna get pissed |
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| 18:17.23 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: wanna heal a +11? ^^ |
| 18:18.18 | nevcairiel | not particularly |
| 18:19.11 | Gnarfoz | heh, ok |
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| 19:11.17 | Gnarfoz | derp quassel |
| 19:11.22 | Gnarfoz | load this fucking new certificate, will you |
| 19:13.45 | Megalon | Gnarfoz: you have to do LOAD "$",8 |
| 19:13.46 | Megalon | :] |
| 19:17.31 | Gnarfoz | I prefer just LOAD |
| 19:17.52 | Gnarfoz | hmm |
| 19:18.19 | Gnarfoz | anyone else have "http://cert.int-x3.letsencrypt.org/" in the middle of their certificate chain from letsencrypt? oO |
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| 19:26.14 | Gnarfoz | what fuckery. |
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| 20:37.49 | znf | Gnarfoz, https://i.imgur.com/zXVqDBL.png ? |
| 20:39.47 | Gnarfoz | no, in the actual file |
| 20:41.01 | Gnarfoz | I just eliminated it, so I can't show it anymore :D |
| 20:41.36 | Gnarfoz | there were 2 extraneous lines at the top of the intermediate cert block, one containing "http://cert.int-x3.letsencrypt.org/" and one empty |
| 20:42.15 | Gnarfoz | not sure if this is dehydrated's doing, or if LE changed something for which dehydrated needs to be updated |
| 20:43.11 | Gnarfoz | (either way, I changed my cert deploy hook to strip that crap out; it's probably even valid to have random stuff there outside the -----END CERTIFICATE----- -----BEGIN CERTIFICATE----- markers, but wtf) |
| 20:43.23 | Gnarfoz | quassel was just being a dick because quassel |
| 20:43.38 | nevcairiel | quassel doesnt even accept any common format that certbot for example can output |
| 20:43.42 | nevcairiel | its a bit annoying |
| 20:43.43 | Gnarfoz | wants special format nothing else on my box uses, doesn't like symlinks, can't reload on command... |
| 20:43.54 | nevcairiel | actually reload works on a git core |
| 20:44.01 | nevcairiel | if you SIGHUP it |
| 20:44.02 | Gnarfoz | that reminds me, I wanted to try and build it from git some time |
| 20:44.03 | Gnarfoz | I know |
| 20:44.32 | Gnarfoz | for quite a while, even, but they just don't seem to get around to making an actual release :D |
| 20:45.17 | nevcairiel | there was some talk to get a release done |
| 20:45.19 | nevcairiel | but you know |
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