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| 00:28.26 | harl | thanks. sounds fair enough. |
| 00:29.49 | Primer | You using NAT? |
| 00:30.16 | Primer | If anything, you should block spoofed packets |
| 00:37.22 | harl | yea.. although it seems quite a bit harder to accomplish total security on that level, without a dedicated routing machine (or router, or switch, anyway) |
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| 00:43.00 | harl | but i'll probably have to see about getting an actual (manageable) switch some time, just for the sake of separating things |
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| 01:02.54 | quiescens | ~ |
| 01:03.04 | Mikk | Your #1 problem will still be outbound connections |
| 01:03.14 | Mikk | Mostly of it via http |
| 01:03.38 | Mikk | Like the guy that clicks an .m3u which launches his ancient winamp player that's riddled with vulnerabilities and kaboom |
| 01:03.44 | quiescens | zomg spoofed packetz |
| 01:04.01 | Mikk | spoofed packets basically stopped being a problem when people stopped using xhosts files |
| 01:04.12 | Mikk | for normal-world applications of security anyway |
| 01:04.21 | quiescens | kaboom~ |
| 01:04.31 | Primer | Mikk: eh? |
| 01:04.52 | Primer | spoofed packets make up pretty much every DDoS scenario |
| 01:05.02 | Primer | It's how the transmitters avoid getting caught |
| 01:05.19 | Primer | many ISPs still don't block spoofed outbound |
| 01:05.20 | Mikk | i know tyvm, i was in the IETF WG discussing how to enable internet wide tracing for that |
| 01:05.51 | Primer | Then...you take back what you wrote? |
| 01:05.51 | Mikk | didn't quite get enough traction unfortunately =( |
| 01:06.01 | Mikk | no. DDoS has little to do with security. |
| 01:06.06 | quiescens | technically spoofing an actual connection to any vaguely recent OS is very difficult |
| 01:06.23 | Primer | I'm not talking about mitigating DDoS as the victim |
| 01:06.40 | Mikk | harl was asking about security. not DDoS. |
| 01:06.41 | Primer | I'm talking about preventing the shit you're in charge of from becoming an attacker |
| 01:06.54 | Primer | when the dude with the old winamp clicks that .m3u link |
| 01:06.59 | Mikk | oh, yeah, if you're an ISP, do egress filtering for gods sake |
| 01:07.07 | Mikk | please |
| 01:07.10 | Mikk | i will love you for it |
| 01:07.21 | Primer | That's what I was talking about |
| 01:07.39 | Primer | that's why I asked if he just had a simple network using NAT |
| 01:07.42 | Mikk | this was about IP-based filters for a company though =) |
| 01:07.50 | Primer | for outbound |
| 01:07.55 | Mikk | nods |
| 01:08.16 | quiescens | fabricating the odd spoofed packet is easy enough, but an actual connection, either requires you to be in control of the address you are trying to spoof or, i guess, in control of some hop between it and the destination, most sequence numbers are sufficiently randomized nowadays |
| 01:08.30 | Primer | DDoS |
| 01:08.35 | Primer | has no such requirement |
| 01:08.49 | Mikk | quiescens: quite. and even if you can create such a connection, it has to give you something you didn't already have. |
| 01:09.07 | Mikk | xhosts + |
| 01:09.09 | Mikk | cheers |
| 01:09.32 | Primer | heh |
| 01:09.35 | Primer | that doesn't stop the packet |
| 01:09.39 | quiescens | i'm just saying, people make it sound like anyone can just pretend to be any ip address flawlessly |
| 01:10.04 | Mikk | actually it IS still a valid concern |
| 01:10.07 | Mikk | for DNS poisoning |
| 01:10.24 | quiescens | but its really only 1 way, so yes, it works only when you don't actually need the actual connection to be established |
| 01:10.54 | Mikk | because for most resolvers, you only have to guess 16 bit of randomness, which can be forcefed nonstop with enough bandwidth |
| 01:11.05 | Mikk | if indeed it is even random |
| 01:11.22 | Mikk | gets harder if you run djbdns but not everyone likes djb :o) |
| 01:11.37 | Primer | I certainly don't |
| 01:12.23 | Mikk | Big fan of ISC bind ? =) |
| 01:12.25 | Primer | I inherited some shit that was all DJB back in...1999...fucking courier and friends |
| 01:12.28 | harl | actually, there *are* addresses (among those classifiable as in the range of those assigned to so-called companies like "Savvis" (just to put it complicated)) off which certain programs repeatedly try to connect to totally random people, to check for running programs and other stuff.. |
| 01:12.54 | quiescens | i expect most recent dns servers should already be ignoring any incoming data that isn't related to a query it has very recently made |
| 01:13.15 | harl | so inbound connections can pose a security threat, no matter how well you protect an internal network against those things (other than completely disallowing connections) |
| 01:13.19 | Mikk | quiescens: yes but you missed my point. unique DNS queries are only idenfitied by a 16 bit field |
| 01:13.25 | Mikk | so if i know that i want you to connect to me instead of google |
| 01:13.34 | Mikk | i can just barf fake "google is ---------> there" at you all day |
| 01:13.39 | Mikk | in 64k variations |
| 01:13.42 | Mikk | sooner or later it sticks |
| 01:14.06 | Primer | presuming your recursor is open to the world |
| 01:14.16 | Mikk | no? |
| 01:14.45 | Mikk | i just claim to be the root server you'll be querying |
| 01:15.08 | Mikk | dns poisoning is real folks, i'm not dreaming this |
| 01:15.13 | Mikk | it's a known problem of dns |
| 01:15.47 | Mikk | the way djbdns is better is that it randomizes its source port |
| 01:15.55 | Mikk | which increases the keyspace to 31+ bits |
| 01:15.59 | quiescens | psh |
| 01:16.18 | Mikk | silly stupid bind is just 53->53. SO hard to guess. |
| 01:16.19 | quiescens | that doesn't count as significantly better |
| 01:16.46 | Mikk | the problem is that you have to barf 4 gig packets in the RTT window |
| 01:16.51 | Mikk | that's ... quite a few |
| 01:17.01 | Primer | So you're flooding a victim with udp packets with the source address of a root server saying "google is 1.2.3.4"? |
| 01:17.20 | Mikk | "google's NS is 1.2.3.4" yes |
| 01:17.33 | Mikk | or |
| 01:17.36 | Primer | Wouldn't that have to land when an outbound query is pending? AND match the source port? |
| 01:17.40 | Mikk | yes |
| 01:17.44 | Mikk | source port = 53 |
| 01:17.47 | Mikk | dest port = 53 |
| 01:17.48 | Mikk | bind rocks |
| 01:17.53 | Primer | doesn't use bind |
| 01:18.02 | Mikk | do you use something else that uses srcport=53 ? =) |
| 01:18.15 | Primer | I use dnsmasq |
| 01:18.27 | Mikk | no clue what that does |
| 01:18.31 | Primer | which in turn farms out its requests to 8.8.8.8 |
| 01:18.52 | Primer | it's just a dns proxy, really, which also does DHCP serving |
| 01:18.55 | quiescens | anywayy |
| 01:19.22 | Primer | You tell it to use an upstream server, and it proxies your queries to it |
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| 01:19.35 | Mikk | well that's not very hard |
| 01:19.45 | Primer | nope |
| 01:19.45 | Mikk | i poison your upstream instead |
| 01:19.48 | quiescens | this is all mostly pointless since the solution that should be getting worked on is something like dnssec or the like |
| 01:20.03 | Primer | Google use dnssec? |
| 01:20.09 | Mikk | mmmm.... dnssec is being roughly as successful as ipv6 atm |
| 01:20.14 | Primer | Because 8.8.8.8 is Google's public recursor |
| 01:20.46 | quiescens | dnssec is easier than ipv4 |
| 01:20.47 | quiescens | er |
| 01:20.49 | quiescens | ipv6 |
| 01:21.18 | quiescens | not as much chicken and egg-ness |
| 01:22.46 | quiescens | i would be surprised if the recent versions of bind don't also randomize the ports by default unless explicitly told not to anyway |
| 01:22.55 | Mikk | indeed dnssec is easier to implement but it's still not happen |
| 01:23.01 | Mikk | ing |
| 01:23.08 | Mikk | oh hey |
| 01:24.01 | Mikk | The .org top-level domain has been signed with DNSSEC in June 2010, followed by .com, .net, and .edu later in 2010 and 2011 |
| 01:24.03 | Mikk | WOHO |
| 01:24.07 | quiescens | yes |
| 01:24.09 | Mikk | that didn't take long at all .... :P |
| 01:24.46 | Mikk | only 7 years! |
| 01:24.47 | harl | the worst thing with dns poisoning seems to be that it's highly impractical to private people to identify those false entries (without compromising themselves that is) |
| 01:25.17 | quiescens | re reads that a couple times |
| 01:25.39 | harl | to/for |
| 01:37.26 | harl | well i don't know enough about the technicalities of dns, but wouldn't it be much easier to prevent false entries from becoming a threat by requesting the same address from multiple servers (probably 3 or more, preferrably different networks, companies and countries) |
| 01:38.11 | harl | and then decide which one is most likely to be the right one |
| 01:38.20 | harl | based on its ocurrences |
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| 01:47.18 | harl | +c |
| 01:48.12 | Arrowmaster | Primer, Mikk: 1.2.3.4 is part of a netblock allocated to china |
| 01:49.23 | Arrowmaster | if it was in use and running a dns server it would probably be a very very bad idea to use it |
| 01:54.02 | Primer | heh |
| 02:09.12 | quiescens | its okay |
| 02:09.23 | quiescens | what more would the rest of the internet have to offer anyway |
| 02:09.57 | harl | porn :x |
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| 02:56.00 | harl | i wonder if the two naaru named k'uri and m'ori would be references to something or someone |
| 02:57.50 | harl | nice line of quests anyway |
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| 03:22.40 | quiescens | moo |
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| 03:31.45 | harl | ;) |
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| 05:19.29 | Repo | gridstatusrole: 03greltok * r49 GridStatusRole.toc: Updated version number. |
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| 14:34.48 | harl | so quiet.. |
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| 14:40.52 | quiescens | moo |
| 14:43.21 | pompy | happy pi day! |
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| 15:10.33 | quiescens | o.o |
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| 15:18.18 | znf | pompy, but... it's 14.03 ?!? |
| 15:18.46 | sbu | znf: doesn't matter, get your schnitzels already! |
| 15:19.03 | quiescens | go to sleep |
| 15:25.34 | harl | it'd prefer 12.03.14 over anything else |
| 15:25.48 | harl | similar to hours:minutes:seconds |
| 15:25.56 | harl | *i'd |
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| 16:06.59 | Repo | atlasloot-enhanced: 03hegarol * r3716 / (3 files in 3 directories): Mining changes |
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| 16:54.52 | Repo | grid2: 03michaelspain * r668 / (24 files in 5 directories): Some optimizations: |
| 16:54.52 | Repo | -Now precalculated backdrop tables are used for all frames and indicators, reducing the load time (not noticeable) and the memory garbage generated when Grid2 is loaded. |
| 16:54.52 | Repo | -Changes in the status/indicator constructors and metatables to avoid using two extra tables. |
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| 17:02.59 | pompy | @project ilvlr |
| 17:03.00 | Repo | pompy: [WoW] iLvLr (Updated Mar 14, 2012 at 16:57 UTC) - http://www.curseforge.com/addons/ilvlr/ |
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| 18:49.19 | Repo | guildleveltooltip: 03Ketho 07master * v0.4 / (2 files in 1 directory): [+1 commit] GuildLevelTooltip now works without first having to do a manual /inspect (Thanks Cowmonster@WoWInterface); Fixed a bug, where other Addons calling NotifyInspect() would give an error |
| 18:49.19 | Repo | guildleveltooltip: 03Ketho 04v0.4 * f5325c5 /: [new tag] Tagging as v0.4 |
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| 20:11.13 | *** topic/#wowace is http://www.wowace.com | http://paste.wowace.com | http://twitter.com/WowAcecom | http://lua.org | Recent changes: http://kb.wowace.com/recent-changes/ | Curse Client v4: http://www.curse.com/client | WoWInterface Minion: http://minion.mmoui.com/ | Happy birthday Cairenn |
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| 20:14.46 | *** topic/#wowace is http://www.wowace.com | http://paste.wowace.com | http://twitter.com/WowAcecom | http://lua.org | Recent changes: http://kb.wowace.com/recent-changes/ | Curse Client v4: http://www.curse.com/client | WoWInterface Minion: http://minion.mmoui.com/ | Happy birthday Cairenn |
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| 21:27.39 | Repo | saved_instances: 03oscarucb 044.6.0 * r137 : Tagging as 4.6.0 |
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| 21:32.41 | znf | sbu, Stanzilla halp |
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| 21:33.47 | Stanzilla | sup |
| 21:34.09 | Ketho_ | yo |
| 21:34.12 | Gnarfoz | no halp 4 u |
| 21:34.26 | znf | my tank blows cock and keeps losing aggro on pull |
| 21:34.33 | Gnarfoz | where |
| 21:35.14 | Gnarfoz | (make him pull using taunt, at least, first few seconds will be his... has to follow that up with something that actually generates threat, though :P) |
| 21:36.40 | sbu | dont MB with 3 orbs to pull the boss! |
| 21:37.10 | sbu | anything else => tank fail :p |
| 21:38.45 | znf | sbu, fuck that, I want to dps on pull |
| 21:40.30 | Gnarfoz | znf: easy solution: be the tank! |
| 21:40.38 | znf | tanking is boring |
| 21:42.12 | sbu | znf: then he should taunt after 3 orb mb -> no more problems |
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| 21:43.42 | znf | jesus christ |
| 21:43.52 | znf | I can't believe we killed Warmaster and we can't kill zon'ozz |
| 21:44.37 | Stanzilla | that's really embarassing |
| 21:45.58 | jlam | Regarding AceEvent:RegisterEvent(), what counts as a "Blizzard event"? Do subevents of CLEU, e.g., SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, count as events that may be registered? |
| 21:54.36 | Elkano | you can register anything... the question is if it will fire though ;) |
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| 21:55.43 | jlam | Right :-) I was just wondering if those sub-events fired or not. I'm dry-coding something and don't have access to WoW at the moment. |
| 21:56.25 | jlam | My guess is "no", and I should just register CLEU and branch out from there into different handlers for each sub-event. |
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| 21:57.04 | Elkano | yeah |
| 21:57.34 | Elkano | CLEU is the event, the "sub-events" are just passed as parameters |
| 21:58.54 | jlam | Yes, that makes sense. I was just wondering if Ace3 did anything tricky behind the scenes to promote them to actual events that fire and and be caught. |
| 21:58.55 | Elkano | in theory, you could do a similar dispatcher layer for the subevents though meaning a table with tables of functions (or just functions) for each sub-event you're interested in |
| 21:59.29 | Elkano | no, Ace is "dumb" wit regards to events, they are all treated equally |
| 21:59.48 | jlam | Good :-) Clean and simple then. |
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| 22:03.46 | Repo | gridstatusrole: 03greltok 041.3.5 * r50 : Tagging as 1.3.5 |
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| 22:23.47 | Repo | bad-boy: 03funkydude * r825 / (2 files in 1 directory): anti-goldspam update |
| 22:34.53 | Repo | bad-boy: 03funkydude 04v7.001 * r826 : Tagging as v7.001 |
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| 22:59.20 | znf | http://pastebin.com/0wZgHGjx |
| 22:59.26 | znf | Why the hell doesn't this work? |
| 22:59.54 | znf | I mean, it works, but if I unequip the ring, it doesn't hide >_< |
| 23:00.03 | Stanzilla | lol powerauras |
| 23:00.16 | Stanzilla | oh nvm, misread :D |
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| 23:19.36 | znf | Stanzilla, WA |
| 23:19.57 | oscarucb | Can a wowace admin please push new project approvals? |
| 23:20.31 | Repo | New addon: LibStrataFix - http://www.wowace.com/addons/libstratafix/ |
| 23:20.49 | oscarucb | ty |
| 23:21.05 | Stanzilla | oscarucb: but make sure to document it |
| 23:21.13 | oscarucb | will do |
| 23:21.13 | Stanzilla | there are additional guidelines for libs |
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