| 00:09.32 | *** join/#wowace kapipi (~kapipi@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 00:10.11 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Maat * r8293 Blackwing/Nefarian.lua: back to not warning for electrocute during the RP |
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| 00:32.14 | Zhinjio | so what mod is the one that gives boss strats when you type !boss? |
| 00:32.22 | Zhinjio | someone had that running yesterday, and it was awesome. |
| 00:48.26 | Hjalte | rob boss mods |
| 00:48.34 | Hjalte | Zhinjio: ^ |
| 00:48.36 | Zhinjio | thanks |
| 00:51.25 | Zhinjio | wow. that mod fails at localization |
| 00:53.02 | *** join/#wowace mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.251.240.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 00:53.46 | Hjalte | Yeah, I don't think he's the greatest coder, or english speller, but it's a very handy addon. |
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| 01:10.27 | Zhinjio | totally |
| 01:10.43 | Zhinjio | especially for people who haven't really done much cata dungeoning. (like me) |
| 01:17.36 | Repo | 10startip: 03starlon * r966 Modules/Appearance/Appearance.lua: |
| 01:17.37 | Repo | Borders are no longer dealt with from this module since the Borders module was created. |
| 01:18.26 | Repo | 10libscriptable-1-0 (experimental): 03starlon * r66 / (2 files in 2 directories): Licensing |
| 01:19.41 | Repo | 10starvisuals-1-0: 03starlon 04v1.4.36 * r92 : Tagging as v1.4.36 |
| 01:19.42 | Repo | Optimizations, particularly blending. |
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| 01:26.15 | Groktar | i kinda got my thumb in the cheese grater |
| 01:26.20 | Groktar | took off some skin |
| 01:26.23 | Groktar | blood everywhere |
| 01:26.34 | Groktar | offers you some cheese |
| 01:26.51 | nebula169 | now you'll have a wicked scar to impress the ladies with |
| 01:27.21 | Groktar | hehe |
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| 01:38.08 | mckenziemc | ~fiskerslap sylvanaar_ipad |
| 01:38.08 | purl | ACTION slaps sylvanaar_ipad around a bit with Fisker. |
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| 01:38.44 | sylvanaar_ipad | We need sylslap |
| 01:52.25 | sylvanaar | yes we do |
| 02:00.30 | Ackis | http://i51.tinypic.com/zufshz.jpg |
| 02:05.58 | sylvanaar | http://taggingrobot.com/je1yx |
| 02:07.26 | Repo | 10arl: 03pompachomp 07master * 2.2.2-224-g23b2151 Database/Mob.lua: [+1 commit] The Winterfall Totemic mob is in Winterspring not Felwood |
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| 02:23.46 | Wobin | Ackis: what are you trolling =P |
| 02:24.35 | Ackis | nothing |
| 02:24.40 | Ackis | I did a pug ICC25 man last night |
| 02:24.45 | Ackis | that's a result from it |
| 02:24.58 | Ackis | when I told two peopel to roll to do the quest for the legendary and their guild lost |
| 02:25.31 | Wobin | terrible |
| 02:25.53 | Wobin | sylvanaar: interesting robot... it needs more RESTful links though imo |
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| 02:27.25 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablNcskmvL4&feature=player_embedded#at=15 |
| 02:27.37 | Ackis | the gm took all her members out of the raid over a level 80 quest :) |
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| 02:29.44 | Repo | 10startip: 03starlon * r967 Modules/UnitTooltip/UnitTooltip.lua: Bug fix |
| 02:30.12 | Repo | 10startip: 03starlon * r968 Modules/Bars/Bars.lua: Remove whitespace in preset |
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| 02:31.09 | Repo | 10libscriptable-1-0 (experimental): 03starlon * r67 / (5 files in 5 directories): Licensing and bug fixes |
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| 02:34.51 | Repo | 10startip: 03starlon 04v1.4.28-beta * r969 : Tagging as v1.4.28-beta |
| 02:34.52 | Repo | Fixed a known bug where self:Stop() was causing errors. |
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| 03:40.21 | Repo | 10startip: 03starlon * r970 StarTip.lua: Use LibCoreLite instead of the heavier LibCore. |
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| 03:49.44 | Kivin | Anyone been able to cook up a fix to the missing micro menu in bartender4? |
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| 04:12.13 | Tinyboom | Wobin: that is a very disturbing video... |
| 04:12.30 | Wobin | Tinyboom: "SURPRISE!" |
| 04:12.35 | Wobin | only in thailand =) |
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| 04:15.46 | Tinyboom | idd |
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| 08:10.15 | Repo | 10average-combat-mana (experimental): 03myrroddin * r9 / (4 files in 2 directories): - completely changed frame code location and details |
| 08:10.16 | Repo | - font effect code options rewritten |
| 08:10.17 | Repo | - typos, bugs, yadda yadda. bar displays now, but still errors to deal with |
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| 08:48.11 | harl | wuff wuff |
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| 09:52.13 | Archarodim | what is this scorecardresearch.com/beacon.js on wowace.com?? |
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| 09:57.21 | Torhal | Archarodim: More than likely, ads. |
| 09:57.54 | Archarodim | it displayed a popup to probe me about my search habits... |
| 09:57.57 | Torhal | Archarodim: Yup. http://www.scorecardresearch.com/home.aspx?action=cookieTest&trackid=-1&sitegroup=20&siteid=10300&languageid=1 |
| 09:59.00 | Torhal | Kind of a fucky thing to have on a developer forum/site...but whatever. |
| 10:00.58 | Repo | 10decursive: 03Archarodim 07master * 2.6.1-11-g2ed0733 / (4 files in 2 directories): [+1 commit] - Spell link and spellID can be used as input in custom spell UI. |
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| 10:46.18 | Repo | 10inline-aura: 03Adirelle 07master * v1.6-beta-9-4-g159d920 / (3 files in 1 directory): [+3 commits] |
| 10:46.19 | Repo | 159d920: Fixed health and power thresholds. |
| 10:46.20 | Repo | ffa1841: Recheck tokens and GUIDs on UNIT_FACTION and UNIT_TARGETABLE_CHANGED, since I suspect funny things could happen. |
| 10:46.21 | Repo | fa577e9: Embed latest BugGrabber *tag*. |
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| 10:56.27 | Repo | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/libcombatlogevent-1-0/. LibCombatLogEvent-1.0. Adirelle (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Torhal. |
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| 11:27.20 | profalbert | why didn't anyone think of that before? |
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| 11:40.37 | kagaro | Adirelle: there is a UNIT_DISSAPATES combat event as well thats isnt on the wiki page |
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| 11:53.11 | vhaarr | Adirelle: does that tag stuff work when I only mark releases manually through the files interface on wowace.com? |
| 12:13.17 | Adirelle|work | vhaarr, I hope so |
| 12:14.04 | Adirelle|work | vhaarr, you mean you don't "tag repository" but update the file thing ? |
| 12:15.06 | Adirelle|work | kagaro, update the wiki page then ! |
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| 12:31.42 | nebula169 | the file management web ui doesn't repackage the file or change anything scm-wise, so i don't think packager would care about it's changes |
| 12:32.42 | nebula169 | who knows what kind of python voodo-magic it uses, though |
| 12:33.06 | Repo | 10professionsvault: 03oscarucb 044.2 * r207 : Tagging as 4.2 |
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| 12:43.03 | nebula169 | Adirelle|work: any reason you returning a table instead of just passing the args along? |
| 12:43.52 | Adirelle|work | nebula169, yep |
| 12:44.02 | Adirelle|work | and the packager voodoo magic is open source actually |
| 12:44.37 | sylvanaar_work | screw flash - seriously |
| 12:45.16 | nebula169 | i know :p i was just being facetious |
| 12:50.51 | Xinhuan | are you convinced having a library handle CLEU dispatches is faster? |
| 12:50.55 | Xinhuan | have you done any testing |
| 12:50.57 | Xinhuan | on performance |
| 12:51.16 | Xinhuan | i thought we discussed this 2 years ago |
| 12:51.23 | Xinhuan | which was why it wasn't implemented |
| 12:51.59 | Xinhuan | (by faster, i mean whether its faster than having AceEvent just dispatch CLEU events) |
| 12:52.39 | Adirelle|work | Xinhuan, I'm not sure it is really faster, however, I'm using this kind of stuff in several addons, plus, it better handles the argument |
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| 12:53.01 | Xinhuan | better? how |
| 12:53.13 | Xinhuan | by passing a table instead of a list of args is better? |
| 12:53.26 | Xinhuan | how's that better |
| 12:53.40 | Adirelle|work | they are named, and I'll fix all for once for the change of 4.1 |
| 12:53.59 | Xinhuan | table lookups are way less efficient than args on the stack when passed directly |
| 12:54.04 | Xinhuan | by a magnitude |
| 12:54.11 | Xinhuan | its worse |
| 12:55.50 | Adirelle|work | I never said it was faster, at best it is more convenient |
| 12:55.59 | Xinhuan | also having to make copies of arguments to change is not necessarily a good thing |
| 12:56.15 | Xinhuan | some addons like to remap things like |
| 12:56.19 | Xinhuan | sourceName |
| 12:56.24 | Xinhuan | if its nil, map to UNKNOWN |
| 12:56.25 | Xinhuan | for eg |
| 12:58.40 | Xinhuan | i'm suggesting that some research/timings be done because i have reasons to believe its less efficient, plus this wasn't baked right into AceEvent-3.0 directly |
| 12:58.54 | Xinhuan | about 2-3 years ago |
| 12:59.14 | sylvanaar_work | how efficient does it need to be? |
| 12:59.53 | Xinhuan | well, why do you need a library to dispatch CLEU events then? with securecall overheads |
| 13:00.54 | sylvanaar_work | sounds like it makes the code cleaner |
| 13:01.14 | Xinhuan | you can implement this in your own addon in about 5 lines of code |
| 13:01.49 | Xinhuan | if self[eventName] then self[eventName](...) end |
| 13:02.00 | Xinhuan | under the CLEU handler |
| 13:02.38 | nebula169 | it seems the thing adi is using it for is the named args as a convenience thing, which is kind of neat |
| 13:03.33 | Xinhuan | i suppose i can agree with that |
| 13:03.52 | arkanes | updating in a single spot for the 4.1 change sounds worth it all on its own to me, honestly |
| 13:03.56 | nebula169 | kind of restrictive in place of creating your own maps, though |
| 13:03.58 | Xinhuan | and sylvanaar, considering CLEU events account for the majority of events in any wow playthrough |
| 13:04.09 | Xinhuan | i'll say efficiency is damn important |
| 13:04.12 | arkanes | there's going to be a lot of fallout from that change |
| 13:04.13 | Xinhuan | especially in combat |
| 13:04.47 | arkanes | CLEU still happens less often than OnUpdate |
| 13:04.57 | arkanes | by a subtantial margin |
| 13:04.58 | Xinhuan | OnUpdate isn't an event |
| 13:05.13 | Xinhuan | its a script handler |
| 13:05.14 | arkanes | I'm aware |
| 13:05.38 | arkanes | but of doing something on OnUpdate isn't a performance issue, neither is doing it in CLEU |
| 13:06.01 | arkanes | a table lookup isn't going to kill you |
| 13:06.14 | Xinhuan | a single one no |
| 13:06.19 | Xinhuan | but if you need to use about 6 of those args |
| 13:06.21 | Mikk | I think a combatlog library can be a good idea.. but not implemented like that |
| 13:06.22 | Xinhuan | its 6 lookups |
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| 13:06.32 | arkanes | it's a constant time slowdown |
| 13:06.44 | Xinhuan | its not really constant time |
| 13:06.47 | Xinhuan | can be proven |
| 13:06.59 | arkanes | hows it not constant time? |
| 13:07.13 | Mikk | What could be a performance gain is adding other filters - not just on events |
| 13:07.18 | Xinhuan | make a huge table and fill it up |
| 13:07.20 | Mikk | And absolutely not mapping args to descriptive names |
| 13:07.22 | Xinhuan | and check for access times |
| 13:07.27 | arkanes | we're not talking about a huge table |
| 13:07.31 | Xinhuan | larger tables have a longer access time |
| 13:07.37 | arkanes | and thats still constant time |
| 13:07.52 | arkanes | because the tables not changing as a result of the number of CLEU updates that happen |
| 13:07.58 | Xinhuan | its not constant since it increases with table size |
| 13:08.12 | arkanes | it's constant because it doesn't scale with the facter we're increasing, which is the number of CLEU events |
| 13:08.24 | arkanes | table size isn't a variable in this equation |
| 13:08.36 | *** join/#wowace alcaras (~chatzilla@c-24-61-214-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:08.38 | Xinhuan | have you considered the fact that because the same table is being passsed every dispatch |
| 13:08.43 | Xinhuan | every CLEU has to clear the table |
| 13:08.47 | Xinhuan | which is another overhead |
| 13:08.57 | Mikk | mmm it should at a minimum keep one table per event type |
| 13:08.59 | arkanes | but again, a constant one |
| 13:09.02 | *** join/#wowace faCe| (~face@tiliacordata.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 13:09.05 | Mikk | but still mapping to descriptive names is unnecessary overhead imnsho |
| 13:09.13 | Xinhuan | yes, but its significant |
| 13:09.14 | Mikk | yes yes arkanes constant means its good |
| 13:09.19 | arkanes | doesn't mean it's good |
| 13:09.22 | Mikk | even if it's 100ms * 10000 per second? |
| 13:09.30 | arkanes | it's not 10k per second, though |
| 13:09.33 | arkanes | so why make stuff up? |
| 13:09.46 | Mikk | illustrating the point that "it's constant" isn't an argument |
| 13:09.49 | arkanes | it's an easily predictable quantity |
| 13:10.10 | arkanes | it's constant is establishing a baseline |
| 13:10.35 | arkanes | it means that it's easy to know what the cost is and to measure how much it affects you |
| 13:10.50 | Mikk | yes |
| 13:11.17 | arkanes | and seriously, if doing 1, or even 10 table lookups or even entire table creations is what pushes your addon over the limit from playable to not, something else is wrong |
| 13:11.37 | Xinhuan | umm, if 10 addons start to use the library |
| 13:11.45 | Xinhuan | then that's the same inefficiency multiplied 10x |
| 13:11.48 | arkanes | unmapping arguments in to a table, even a CLEU event argument, is not some horrible breach of performant programmign ethos |
| 13:11.49 | Mikk | you do realize that you get a ridiculous amount of CLEU events per second in raid combat yes |
| 13:11.54 | Xinhuan | plus its a library - library code are meant to be efficient |
| 13:11.58 | Xinhuan | otherwise why use it |
| 13:11.59 | arkanes | Mikk: it's not really that many over all |
| 13:12.14 | arkanes | a couple hundred tops |
| 13:12.48 | Adirelle|work | back |
| 13:12.51 | Xinhuan | yes, a couple 100 muiltiplied by say 10 addons |
| 13:12.53 | arkanes | Xinhuan: the same reason why anyone uses any library, for convenience |
| 13:13.09 | Mikk | that's not the only reason to use a library |
| 13:13.09 | Adirelle|work | the table isn't the most important thing of the library though |
| 13:13.14 | arkanes | you guys realize you're just making an argument against using CLEU at all for anything, right? |
| 13:13.33 | Xinhuan | well, i'm mainly pointing out 2 facts - A) i believe passing a table with named arguments is far less efficient with reasons B) CLEU dispatches were discussed a few years back for AceEvent but not implemented, hence i question its efficiency |
| 13:13.34 | Adirelle|work | I could pass the full argument list, or remove the library for wowace and use it in my addons anyway |
| 13:13.35 | arkanes | if you're going to freak out because theres an extra table created you may as well simply not use the combat log |
| 13:13.59 | arkanes | there is no question that it is far less efficient in absolute terms |
| 13:14.26 | arkanes | but it's also far more efficient then, say, anythign that any scrolling combat text addon does |
| 13:14.32 | arkanes | or any death log, or recount |
| 13:14.34 | Adirelle|work | howover, the full argument things is going to be sensible to 4.1 breakage more than the table |
| 13:14.41 | Mikk | why are you arguing FOR making something less efficient than it can be? |
| 13:14.55 | arkanes | Mikk: when there's corresponding utility |
| 13:15.12 | Xinhuan | there hasn't been any utility arguments apart from named arguments in a table |
| 13:15.19 | arkanes | and the 4.1 change |
| 13:15.42 | Xinhuan | which essentially requires a 1 line change |
| 13:15.46 | nebula169 | i don't see why people are fretting so much |
| 13:15.48 | Xinhuan | just as the library also does |
| 13:15.50 | nebula169 | yar |
| 13:15.50 | arkanes | the additional overhead from using named arguments will be a tiny fration of the actual work done in an a handler by any non trivial addon |
| 13:15.57 | Xinhuan | and the owners of addons still need to repackage their addon |
| 13:16.19 | arkanes | so arguing against it on efficiency grounds is tenuous at best |
| 13:16.32 | Adirelle|work | by the way, it ignores unregistered events, so there is overhead only for those ones |
| 13:16.34 | Mikk | i'll gladly argue against anything inefficient |
| 13:16.43 | Mikk | because inefficiency has bitten us in the ass enough |
| 13:16.48 | arkanes | the combat log itself generates significantly more overhead than this |
| 13:17.08 | nebula169 | that doesn't change the fact people are just suggesting you not add more to it |
| 13:17.08 | Xinhuan | yes, pity nobody has written a replacement for the combat log - because it isn't replaceble |
| 13:17.34 | Xinhuan | loads of shit requires constants defined in the combat log |
| 13:17.40 | Xinhuan | Blizzard_CombatLog that is |
| 13:17.51 | Xinhuan | so it can't really be not-loaded and replaced |
| 13:18.25 | arkanes | I'd be interested if someone actually ran the metrics and came up with a reasonable number for the amount of work you could expect to do per combat event without the user seeing an effect from it |
| 13:18.35 | arkanes | I suspect that it's far larger than you might think |
| 13:18.50 | Xinhuan | that's exactly what i proposed: conduct some tests and measurements |
| 13:19.00 | arkanes | an absolute cost of various dispatch techniques doesn't really answer the question of whether or not they're worth a tradeoff |
| 13:19.34 | Xinhuan | for the record, Recount already does its own internal CLEU dispatch |
| 13:19.42 | arkanes | most stuff does |
| 13:19.58 | arkanes | if you use CLEU you usually need more than 1 type, and that means some kind of dispatch |
| 13:20.08 | Adirelle|work | recount also handles almost *all* CLEU events |
| 13:20.17 | Xinhuan | nope, if you only need about 3 or 4 types, an if-else is sufficient |
| 13:20.23 | Xinhuan | function dispatches are still slower |
| 13:20.23 | arkanes | ... |
| 13:20.30 | arkanes | if/else is dispatch |
| 13:20.42 | Xinhuan | dispatch implies a function call |
| 13:20.45 | Xinhuan | a message being sent |
| 13:20.47 | arkanes | whatever |
| 13:20.52 | Xinhuan | if-else doesn't do that |
| 13:21.07 | Mikk | 25man raid easily reaches 500 events/sec btw |
| 13:21.11 | Mikk | was digging through combatlogs |
| 13:21.31 | Xinhuan | you should see the # of events on fights with a lot of adds |
| 13:21.38 | arkanes | I know how many it is |
| 13:21.43 | Mikk | you said less than 100 |
| 13:21.47 | arkanes | no, I said a few hundred |
| 13:22.00 | arkanes | "couple" |
| 13:22.07 | arkanes | although I did have "few" in mind |
| 13:22.32 | vhaarr | I'll just say one thing; this is exactly how DBM passes the CLEU arguments around; in a map - if that's not enough to scare anybody away from this method I don't know what is |
| 13:22.41 | Xinhuan | if a single dispatch is 0.1ms slower, 500 events makes that 50ms slower... that's 20 FPS |
| 13:22.48 | arkanes | vhaarr: why would that scare anyone away from it? |
| 13:22.53 | arkanes | millions of people run DBM |
| 13:23.02 | arkanes | the technique obviously works without melting peoples computers |
| 13:23.04 | vhaarr | yeah that doesn't mean the authors know what they're doing |
| 13:23.12 | arkanes | no, it doesn't |
| 13:23.18 | arkanes | but it also doesn't mean that they don't |
| 13:23.20 | vhaarr | I don't know how long you've been around |
| 13:23.27 | vhaarr | but Mikk and Xinhuan have certainly seen their share of DBM shit |
| 13:23.35 | arkanes | I've seen plenty of shit |
| 13:23.51 | arkanes | but you've got your cause and effect backwards |
| 13:23.58 | arkanes | if doing this is bad, then DBM is bad for doing it |
| 13:24.11 | arkanes | but if it's not bad, it's not bad regardless of whether or not DBM is bad for other reasons |
| 13:24.21 | Xinhuan | you got to realize, just because millions of people use an addon doesn't mean its coded well |
| 13:24.23 | Xinhuan | Gearscore |
| 13:24.26 | arkanes | so DBMs badness doesn't figure into it |
| 13:24.31 | Xinhuan | KTM |
| 13:24.36 | arkanes | Xinhuan: nobody is making the claim that it does |
| 13:24.52 | arkanes | Xinhuan: simply that it self evidently works without crippling overhead |
| 13:25.00 | arkanes | which should be obvious, really |
| 13:25.21 | Xinhuan | yes but if you run 5 copies of DBM, you might feel the difference |
| 13:25.38 | Xinhuan | (5 addons that uses the same technique) |
| 13:25.40 | arkanes | recount or skada or whatever do far more table churn with the contents of the CLEU than would be generated by this technique |
| 13:25.58 | *** join/#wowace Axodious^ (~0ki4e087@2002:6017:736a:0:a131:a6d2:e632:5e3b) |
| 13:26.06 | Xinhuan | sigh, i don't think anyone ever mentioned about table churn |
| 13:26.14 | arkanes | so as relative overhead, rather than absolute, it's small |
| 13:26.41 | arkanes | passing arguments in a table instead of on the stack is slower because of the need to create and/or clear tables |
| 13:27.03 | Xinhuan | its not just that, accessing the arguments is also a magnitude slower |
| 13:27.06 | arkanes | and unpack them on the other side, of course |
| 13:27.08 | arkanes | yes |
| 13:27.22 | Mikk | that's "maybe" though |
| 13:27.27 | Xinhuan | if you need to unpack them to be faster, why even pack them in a table |
| 13:27.35 | Mikk | consider the case of several addons only needing a small subset of the CLEUs |
| 13:28.12 | Mikk | the alternative is for WoW to create stack variables for all addons times all CLEUs |
| 13:28.31 | arkanes | there's probably a tipping point somewhere in various use cases |
| 13:28.41 | arkanes | I don't think I agree that most addons only use small subsets, though |
| 13:28.52 | Mikk | combatlog parsers obviously use shitloads |
| 13:28.58 | arkanes | most stuff at least does swings and spells which is most of them |
| 13:29.06 | Mikk | but there's also quite a few addons subscribing to CLEU that only need one type of events.. or one source |
| 13:29.08 | arkanes | well, perhaps 30% |
| 13:29.12 | arkanes | auras are the other big chunk |
| 13:29.30 | Mikk | or one destination |
| 13:29.55 | Mikk | maybe i should say class of source/destination too |
| 13:30.24 | Xinhuan | you might be overestimating CLEU use |
| 13:30.37 | Mikk | i may |
| 13:30.39 | Mikk | or not |
| 13:30.50 | Mikk | like this nice useful addon for holy priests that my gf found |
| 13:30.50 | Xinhuan | what CLEU events do you think Omen might be interested in? make a guess |
| 13:30.57 | Mikk | plops up a /say when she casts a lightwell |
| 13:31.00 | Mikk | and when someone uses it badly |
| 13:31.06 | Mikk | it does this by combatlog event parsing |
| 13:31.15 | arkanes | there's probably a lot of unneccesary CLEU use |
| 13:31.32 | Mikk | Omen? umm not many |
| 13:31.35 | Mikk | if at all |
| 13:31.46 | arkanes | Omen relies pretty much entirely on threat events I'd think |
| 13:31.51 | Xinhuan | that's correct, it didn't use CLEU until patch 4.0 |
| 13:32.01 | Mikk | it used to be all but that's another story |
| 13:32.11 | arkanes | Xinhuan: that sound backwards to me |
| 13:32.20 | Mikk | and now you only use a few CLEU events right? |
| 13:32.44 | Mikk | (curiosity: which and why?) |
| 13:32.44 | Xinhuan | after patch 4.0, it now monitors for Misdirect, tricks, mirror image, hand of salv, fade (aura gain/losses) |
| 13:32.50 | Xinhuan | when any of these are detected |
| 13:32.59 | *** join/#wowace Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:33.03 | Xinhuan | it starts to record damage done from Src to Dst and add estimated threat to their targets |
| 13:33.16 | Xinhuan | when the aura fades, it removes the temporary threat |
| 13:33.26 | arkanes | you could do that without CLEU |
| 13:33.34 | Xinhuan | so the temporary portion of threat gained is shown in grey |
| 13:33.49 | nebula169 | you need the cleu for the damage for predictions |
| 13:33.52 | Xinhuan | for example, a tank may have 500k threat, but 100k of that is temorary threat |
| 13:34.02 | Xinhuan | so 400k of that bar is brown (for warrior) and 100k is grey |
| 13:34.13 | Xinhuan | and that 100k will disappear after 30 seconds |
| 13:34.16 | arkanes | thats a lot of work |
| 13:34.37 | arkanes | for what I'd call a not very important feature, but clearly there are people with different opinions about the relative tradeoff of efficency vs features ;) |
| 13:34.40 | sylvanaar_work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HUYi9aVvI&feature=player_embedded |
| 13:34.41 | Xinhuan | it is, but its quite simple to track damage done, only 4 damage events |
| 13:35.04 | Xinhuan | there's no threat modifiers on any dps class anymore |
| 13:35.20 | *** join/#wowace Mihau_ (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:35.44 | Xinhuan | its mainly an estimate, since it doesn't account for threat done by non-damage |
| 13:36.25 | nebula169 | why not use the threat data and mirror it for the duration of the buff? in the case of misdirect/tricks |
| 13:36.47 | arkanes | nebula169: the threat is generated on the target of the tricks and its rolled up into their own threat |
| 13:36.54 | Xinhuan | the threat data supplied gives the total value, you dont' know how much of it is temporary |
| 13:36.58 | arkanes | you dont know how much of it came from someone else |
| 13:37.02 | nebula169 | i'm aware |
| 13:37.08 | nebula169 | take the hunter's threat |
| 13:37.16 | nebula169 | apply it to his misdirect target |
| 13:37.23 | arkanes | the hunter doesn't have any |
| 13:37.26 | Xinhuan | the hunter doesn't gain any |
| 13:37.32 | Repo | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/average-combat-mana/. Average Combat Mana. myrroddin (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:38.01 | nebula169 | ah, i see the flaw in my thought process, lol |
| 13:38.06 | Xinhuan | also the other reason is a Fade/Mirror Image change |
| 13:38.22 | Xinhuan | it used to deduct your threat value by an absolute amount (4.1 mil threat) |
| 13:38.25 | Xinhuan | so it went negative |
| 13:38.32 | Xinhuan | now it doesn't do that in 4.0 |
| 13:38.41 | Xinhuan | it sets your threat to exactly 0 |
| 13:39.01 | Xinhuan | so previously, omen could just add that 4.1 mil to show you your "real amount of threat" |
| 13:39.09 | Xinhuan | that you have if Mirror image isn't active |
| 13:39.19 | Xinhuan | so mages know exactly where they will be at in threat when it expires |
| 13:39.23 | *** join/#wowace kadrahil (~kad@unaffiliated/kadrahil) |
| 13:39.25 | Xinhuan | now you can't, it just gives you 0 |
| 13:39.44 | Xinhuan | so you need to track threat-you-have-when-MI-went-up + damage done during MI |
| 13:39.58 | Xinhuan | to show the same value |
| 13:41.42 | Repo | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/interrupthelper/. InterruptHelper. Morsker (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:41.47 | Repo | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/snitch/. Snitch. Febris_EU (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:42.41 | Repo | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/ezinterrupt/. ezInterrupt. Daylesan (Manager/Author). Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:45.01 | *** join/#wowace cncfanatics1 (~cncfanati@91.215.157.107) |
| 13:49.46 | Repo | 10inline-aura: 03Adirelle 07master * v1.6-beta-9-5-gf244920 StateModules.lua: [+1 commit] I like how UnitPower and UnitPowerMax sometimes return inconsistent values. |
| 13:50.44 | arkanes | Xinhuan: you mentioned before that table access time grew as the table size did, is that something you've actually observed and measured in wow? |
| 13:50.55 | arkanes | Xinhuan: or were you just talking about the cost of collision chaining in general? |
| 13:51.26 | Xinhuan | i think it was measured loooong ago when "global _G pollution" avoidance was all the rage |
| 13:52.04 | Xinhuan | tables in Lua double in size whenever you reach half the capacity filled |
| 13:53.05 | Xinhuan | err wait |
| 13:53.07 | Xinhuan | that's wrong |
| 13:53.08 | Xinhuan | heh |
| 13:53.20 | Xinhuan | the array part doubles in size whenever it reaches full |
| 13:53.24 | Xinhuan | the hash part, i have no idea |
| 13:54.23 | arkanes | yeah normally hash table access is linear (sometimes better) in the number of collisions |
| 13:54.36 | arkanes | incidentally that double affects insertion, not access :P |
| 13:56.10 | arkanes | for access to be measurable non-linear with the relatively poor tools we can use to profile, the lua table implementation would have to be really suboptimal or you'd have to have extremely contrived data |
| 13:56.48 | *** join/#wowace prencher (~na@unaffiliated/prencher) |
| 13:59.46 | Xinhuan | for all intents and purposes, looking up a hash is still significantly costly compared to variable access on the stack |
| 14:00.27 | arkanes | right |
| 14:00.29 | Xinhuan | my TSP algorithm ran 30% faster when i converted 2 dimensionable tables a[x][y] of size N*N to a[x*N-b] |
| 14:00.44 | Xinhuan | a[x*N-y] i mean |
| 14:00.50 | arkanes | thats interesting |
| 14:01.03 | Xinhuan | its just a table of distances between node x to y |
| 14:01.08 | Xinhuan | weight tables |
| 14:01.24 | arkanes | it means that table access was 60% of the running time in your TSP |
| 14:01.35 | Xinhuan | pretty much |
| 14:01.40 | arkanes | which is surprising |
| 14:01.57 | Xinhuan | it has to access the table data fairly frequently |
| 14:02.24 | Xinhuan | the algorithm picks a random target location to go to next, based on |
| 14:02.39 | arkanes | and those were integer indices? |
| 14:02.42 | Xinhuan | how far away the next location is away from the current one, and a pheromone trail |
| 14:02.44 | Xinhuan | yes integer |
| 14:03.02 | arkanes | well thats even more surprising |
| 14:03.02 | wink | Xinhuan: that's pretty common, with multidim arrays, in every language |
| 14:03.14 | Xinhuan | not at all wink |
| 14:03.31 | Xinhuan | C and C-like languages implement multidim arrays as base-memory access + offset pointers |
| 14:03.44 | arkanes | the most common way to implement multidimensional arrays is exactly as Xinhuan did manually |
| 14:03.49 | wink | Xinhuan: we once sped up an AI in java by like 30% by just using a single-dim vector with offset for the playing field :P |
| 14:04.03 | Xinhuan | so a[x][y] is really converted to a[(x-1)*N+y] by the compiler |
| 14:04.15 | wink | well, c* may be an exception then, good to know |
| 14:04.19 | arkanes | of course without data structure support in the runtime for that you have to do it manually |
| 14:04.44 | Xinhuan | C and C-like languages use row major |
| 14:04.51 | Xinhuan | and all arrays are contiguous |
| 14:05.28 | Repo | 10ezinterrupt: 03Daylesan * r22 core.lua: |
| 14:05.29 | Repo | - Fixed bug where cast alerts would not trigger on some mobs because they were considered neutral. |
| 14:05.31 | Repo | - Added some more text to the config menu. |
| 14:05.38 | arkanes | you could use a metatable, but without a tuple-like structure to hold the coordinates it'd be messy |
| 14:06.07 | Xinhuan | the locations in this case is really that each "node" is represented by an integer |
| 14:06.15 | Xinhuan | from 1-N |
| 14:06.39 | arkanes | Xinhuan: anyway, integer access to a lua table should be very very fast and frankly I'm surprised that the pointer-chasing done to track down your value was that much more expensive than the floating point math to calculate the distances |
| 14:07.05 | Xinhuan | that's because table lookups are *really expensive* in Lua, people don't get this |
| 14:07.17 | arkanes | they aren't, though |
| 14:07.21 | Xinhuan | but they are |
| 14:07.22 | arkanes | especially not integer ones |
| 14:07.31 | arkanes | they really aren't |
| 14:07.33 | Xinhuan | i sped up the algoritm another 10% by using LOADS of temporaries |
| 14:07.48 | Xinhuan | local a = t[x] |
| 14:07.58 | Xinhuan | local c = a[y] + a[z] |
| 14:07.59 | arkanes | yeah thats not surprsing |
| 14:08.05 | arkanes | and it's also not consistent with your double access |
| 14:08.06 | Xinhuan | that avoids t[x] lookups twice |
| 14:08.06 | arkanes | which is odd |
| 14:08.42 | arkanes | 10% from optimizing into locals is consistent with my past experiences |
| 14:09.06 | Xinhuan | the result of using a flat 1D table though, means that i can only have a maximum of 729 nodes |
| 14:09.16 | Xinhuan | anymore it will exceed the 4 mb table limit imposed by Lua |
| 14:10.51 | *** join/#wowace groktar (~gr@209-234-197-181.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 14:11.18 | wink | wtf lua.. |
| 14:12.06 | Xinhuan | suddenly learning a lot of things about lua? ;D |
| 14:12.53 | arkanes | Xinhuan: you shouldn't have gotten any more benefit from normalizing t[x][y] into a flat table than you did from optimizing into a local |
| 14:13.15 | arkanes | possibly even more savings from the local, since you're not calculating the offset |
| 14:13.46 | wink | Xinhuan: not suddenly, gradually :) |
| 14:13.48 | Xinhuan | not at all, because t[x][y] is a different table |
| 14:14.16 | Xinhuan | i mean, it was used in a loop differently in a way |
| 14:14.28 | Xinhuan | that couldn't really local t[x] for any benefit |
| 14:14.45 | arkanes | no, I mean that in both cases you're saving a single table lookup |
| 14:14.51 | arkanes | you were doing 2, and now you're doing 1 |
| 14:15.30 | arkanes | were you doing anything in that inner loop *except* the table lookup? |
| 14:16.01 | Adirelle|work | does anyone know what is the character limit of in-game mail bodies ? |
| 14:16.20 | Xinhuan | i think you might need to look at the code |
| 14:16.21 | Xinhuan | lol |
| 14:16.23 | Adirelle|work | (and if SendMail is protected or requires an hardware event) |
| 14:16.35 | Adirelle|work | I've done it, but there is only a 500-limit on the EditBox |
| 14:16.52 | Adirelle|work | I'm not sure if it is a softcap or an hardcap |
| 14:17.00 | arkanes | are you trying to write a distributed computation system based on instant in-game mail via the g-mail talent?! |
| 14:17.20 | Adirelle|work | exactly, to parse the CLEU events |
| 14:17.43 | arkanes | thus saving the table lookup! |
| 14:17.46 | arkanes | excellent idea |
| 14:17.56 | Adirelle|work | actually I was thinking about storing/sharing configuration the in-game mails |
| 14:18.00 | Xinhuan | arkanes, http://paste.wowace.com/3379/ |
| 14:18.04 | Xinhuan | SolveTSP() is the function |
| 14:18.08 | *** join/#wowace tardmrr (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 14:18.08 | *** mode/#wowace [+o tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 14:18.24 | Xinhuan | u and v are the variables used for the [x*N-y] calculation |
| 14:18.52 | Xinhuan | so you will often see stuff like local u = i*numNodes-j |
| 14:18.54 | *** join/#wowace vrak_ (vrak@putsch.kolbu.ws) |
| 14:19.10 | *** join/#wowace Brunera (lasseb@colargol.tihlde.org) |
| 14:19.24 | Xinhuan | its notable that i don't just have a weight table |
| 14:19.53 | Xinhuan | i also have a pheromone table and a probability table for each edge |
| 14:21.10 | Mikk | SendMail is somewhat special |
| 14:21.23 | Mikk | It seems to require a hardware event for the first send to a recipient |
| 14:21.27 | Mikk | But not consecutive ones |
| 14:22.08 | Xinhuan | its probably to prevent automated bots spamming gold mails |
| 14:22.17 | Xinhuan | so you still have to click the first one? |
| 14:23.40 | Mikk | yes |
| 14:23.52 | Mikk | i haven't tried with different recipients i should add |
| 14:23.58 | Xinhuan | arkanes, the bulk of the loop is lines 372-521, about 99% of the time is spent there, but about half the time is spent in the TwoOpt() function call for each tour inside that loop |
| 14:24.14 | Mikk | Xinhuan: nuke the Foreground button already, Background only =) |
| 14:24.19 | Mikk | with a processing priority slider! |
| 14:24.33 | Xinhuan | heh |
| 14:24.47 | Xinhuan | foreground's still good for anything less than 150 nodes |
| 14:25.06 | Mikk | yeah but i also see people going "uhh my wow hung, *alt-f4*" |
| 14:25.07 | Xinhuan | i haven't included code a guy sent in to move nodes |
| 14:25.19 | Mikk | "routes suck" -> deinstall |
| 14:25.27 | Xinhuan | yeah except when you click on the "Foreground" button |
| 14:25.30 | Xinhuan | a tooltip appears |
| 14:25.35 | Xinhuan | saying it may hang for a while |
| 14:25.38 | Xinhuan | you can't miss that |
| 14:25.44 | Mikk | as of when? oO |
| 14:25.53 | Xinhuan | as of version 1.0 |
| 14:26.05 | Xinhuan | the tooltip is OnEnter of the button |
| 14:26.09 | Mikk | oh those |
| 14:26.11 | Mikk | noone reads those |
| 14:26.19 | Xinhuan | they will when it hangs LOLOL |
| 14:26.27 | Megalon | the tooltip warning was there since ever on routes i think |
| 14:26.44 | Megalon | most awesome addon ever ;x |
| 14:26.50 | Mikk | well i'm an avid routes user and i didn't notice the tooltip ever :P |
| 14:27.14 | Xinhuan | probably because you never used foreground? |
| 14:27.15 | Xinhuan | :D |
| 14:27.17 | Mikk | oh i did |
| 14:27.18 | Torhal|work | Mikk: I did. WHen you hover over the button |
| 14:27.28 | Mikk | and background |
| 14:27.32 | Xinhuan | see, you're just weird |
| 14:27.34 | Mikk | and noticed the huge difference in time for me |
| 14:27.37 | Mikk | because i use vsync |
| 14:27.40 | Mikk | hence my changes |
| 14:28.05 | Xinhuan | ah, i don't uses vsync, foreground usually takes 3x-5x faster for me |
| 14:28.19 | Xinhuan | but that's really CPU dependant |
| 14:28.49 | Mikk | 3x - 5x even with my changes? |
| 14:28.50 | Xinhuan | ya |
| 14:28.50 | Mikk | then again it's tuned to be semicomfortable now |
| 14:28.53 | Mikk | hence why a prio slider would be Good |
| 14:28.56 | Xinhuan | the changes affect both foreground/background equally |
| 14:29.00 | Xinhuan | so the ratio stays the same |
| 14:29.15 | Xinhuan | (apart from the FPS limiting one) |
| 14:29.44 | Xinhuan | its smoother now with the changes |
| 14:30.02 | Xinhuan | before it would be like 10 FPS during the TwoOpt phases and 20 FPS during the main TSP loop |
| 14:30.14 | Xinhuan | while its now consistent no matter what |
| 14:30.29 | Xinhuan | at the expense of the FPS check call every loop |
| 14:30.52 | Mikk | yeah but GetTime is very very cheap |
| 14:31.33 | Xinhuan | a function call is still expensive |
| 14:31.41 | Xinhuan | i in-lined the intersection test code for that reason |
| 14:32.18 | Mikk | mmmmm yes and no remember that it's an API call and not something that needs to push lots of crap on stack |
| 14:32.25 | Mikk | feel free to time it |
| 14:32.43 | Mikk | i did but i forgot the numbers now =( |
| 14:32.53 | Xinhuan | an API call still pushes stuff on the stack >.> |
| 14:33.34 | Mikk | either way the end result is that it's actually faster |
| 14:33.55 | Mikk | even though it's less punishing on FPS |
| 14:34.06 | Mikk | 02763346 |
| 14:34.14 | Xinhuan | i haven't actually included the code someone sent in |
| 14:34.17 | Xinhuan | to move nodes |
| 14:34.23 | Mikk | grats i just gave you a bnet authenticator number, guess my login & password hurry =) |
| 14:34.47 | Mikk | too late! |
| 14:34.50 | Xinhuan | if there are 3 nodes that are concave, it tries to move the middle node inwards along the perpendicular bisector of the 2 outer nodes |
| 14:35.10 | Xinhuan | until it reaches the "cluster radius" limit |
| 14:35.37 | Xinhuan | if it is possible to move the middle node onto the actual line between the 2 outer nodes, the code even removes the middle node |
| 14:37.47 | Mikk | okay, tested it. on my oldish CPU it takes 1 second to execute 1 mill GetTime() |
| 14:39.08 | Xinhuan | that's pretty darn fast |
| 14:39.20 | Mikk | including "if >endTime" check it's 1.07 uS |
| 14:40.36 | Mikk | having said that, calling "local function dummyFunc() return 1234 end" is actually more than 10 times faster |
| 14:40.49 | Mikk | lua really is fast for a scripting language |
| 14:41.36 | Xinhuan | is that even a valid comparison |
| 14:41.46 | Xinhuan | GetTime does involve a system call |
| 14:41.51 | sylvanaar_work | you use winauth or something Mikk |
| 14:42.00 | Mikk | cellphone bnet auth |
| 14:42.24 | sylvanaar_work | ah |
| 14:43.04 | Xinhuan | yeah cellphone auths are 8-digit |
| 14:43.13 | Xinhuan | physical ones are 6-digit |
| 14:44.51 | sylvanaar_work | authenticators are annoying, less so if you use winauth or some software authenticator |
| 14:45.10 | sylvanaar_work | having to key 8 digits though would be annoying |
| 14:45.17 | Axodious | they should make an auth type based on specific hardware plugged into the machine imo ;o |
| 14:45.28 | Xinhuan | why is software ones less annoying |
| 14:45.33 | mckenziemc1 | stop trying to hack people's accounts, then you won't find them annoying :) |
| 14:45.35 | sylvanaar_work | winauth lets you hotkey the entry |
| 14:45.48 | Xinhuan | so...? |
| 14:45.49 | sylvanaar_work | it feeds the digits and the enter key |
| 14:46.06 | sylvanaar_work | you dont have to look at ti |
| 14:46.07 | sylvanaar_work | it |
| 14:46.16 | Xinhuan | i see |
| 14:46.23 | Xinhuan | how do you backup your auth? |
| 14:46.32 | sylvanaar_work | to a file |
| 14:46.57 | sylvanaar_work | its very handy |
| 14:47.20 | Xinhuan | what if you want to login somewhere else |
| 14:47.26 | sylvanaar_work | you take the file with you |
| 14:47.34 | Mikk | on your cellphone! :D |
| 14:47.36 | Xinhuan | wouldn't you need to install winauth then? |
| 14:47.42 | sylvanaar_work | yeah |
| 14:47.46 | Xinhuan | isn't that more annoying? |
| 14:47.49 | sylvanaar_work | no |
| 14:47.57 | sylvanaar_work | how many places do you play |
| 14:47.58 | Mikk | depends if you play a lot somewhere else i guess |
| 14:48.05 | Axodious | ill just stick to my hardware auth and the extra ~10 seconds to type the code (until/if blizz makes their own software) |
| 14:48.10 | Xinhuan | some places like LAN shops dont' allow you to install anything |
| 14:48.15 | Xinhuan | how do you deal with that |
| 14:48.18 | sylvanaar_work | i dont play there |
| 14:48.22 | Mikk | Axodious: blizzard making their own software isn't going to happen - it would be fairly pointless |
| 14:48.30 | Mikk | because then the hackers would know exactly what to target |
| 14:48.32 | Mikk | and read keys off of |
| 14:48.43 | Xinhuan | that's the point of a (physical) auth for me though - i can play anywhere |
| 14:48.45 | Axodious | well, 3rd party software still falls under anything that blizzard can/wants to do to shutdown an account |
| 14:48.52 | Xinhuan | even compromised computers |
| 14:49.14 | Xinhuan | and i already carry a bank phsyical auth with me anyway, one more doesn't hurt my keychain! |
| 14:49.15 | sylvanaar_work | actually Xinhuan bliz will detect that you are at a new location and cut you off anyways |
| 14:49.33 | sylvanaar_work | then you have to log into the website too |
| 14:49.36 | Xinhuan | well yeah... true |
| 14:49.54 | Mikk | Axodious: eh yeah if you want to look at it that way you shouldn't install windows either because it's 3rd party software |
| 14:50.01 | Xinhuan | well they didn't used to do that until recently |
| 14:50.24 | Axodious | something like winauth in my opinion is something blizz won't want around |
| 14:50.31 | Mikk | why ever would they not want it around |
| 14:50.39 | Axodious | because it's blizz? |
| 14:50.51 | Mikk | paranoid much? |
| 14:50.58 | Axodious | not really |
| 14:51.23 | Axodious | we're talking about security measures they've implemented, wouldn't they want to keep that as closed as possible/ |
| 14:51.46 | Ackis | closed security is bad security |
| 14:51.47 | sylvanaar_work | it is a deriviative of their android app |
| 14:53.34 | Mikk | it's a security measure meant to protect the user. |
| 14:53.42 | Mikk | not a security measure meant to protect their servers or whatever |
| 14:54.10 | sylvanaar_work | it protects their $$, because restoring an account costs X dollars |
| 14:54.11 | Xinhuan | has blizz made any indication whether it supports the use of non-blizzard auths? |
| 14:54.21 | *** join/#wowace mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 14:54.21 | Mikk | and the workings of number generators like this is well understood |
| 14:54.32 | Mikk | take a unique key, repeatedly hash it on a timer |
| 14:54.39 | Mikk | give the last few digits to the user |
| 14:55.19 | sylvanaar_work | it is sort of like one time pad |
| 14:55.33 | *** join/#wowace Sapu (~Sapu94@24-205-239-250.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com) |
| 14:55.49 | Mikk | quite so |
| 14:56.02 | Mikk | not quite as secure as a one time pad |
| 14:56.05 | Mikk | but secure enough |
| 14:57.20 | jnwhiteh | Google's 2-factor auth has one-time pads and backups to the token hash |
| 14:57.29 | jnwhiteh | and the application-specific passwords are a really interesting look at things |
| 15:01.53 | *** join/#wowace kadrahil (~kad@unaffiliated/kadrahil) |
| 15:03.16 | Adirelle|work | funny thing when route (or gathermate) hangs up : move the cursor out of the button, the tooltip remains when the cilent unfreezes and stuck even if you close the windows using escape |
| 15:04.05 | Fisker | ok jnwhiteh |
| 15:04.09 | Fisker | how does one 2-factor auth? |
| 15:07.49 | *** join/#wowace Slayman (~dejhap08@asaru.net) |
| 15:12.45 | mckenziemc1 | how does one Fisker? |
| 15:14.34 | Slayman | one apparently kills ppl and talk about it ad nauseum |
| 15:14.54 | mckenziemc1 | i once killed you, Slayman |
| 15:14.57 | mckenziemc1 | like that? |
| 15:15.01 | Slayman | yupp |
| 15:15.36 | *** join/#wowace arkanes_ (4aca4ddf@python/site-packages/arkanes) |
| 15:24.29 | Elkano | ~emulate Fisker |
| 15:24.29 | purl | somebody said emulate fisker was "<reply> OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO CUM" |
| 15:24.38 | arkanes_ | ... |
| 15:24.44 | Ackis | lol |
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| 15:44.06 | *** mode/#wowace [+o Funkeh`] by ChanServ |
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| 15:57.18 | sylvanaar_work | ~factinfo emulate Fisket |
| 15:57.18 | purl | there's no such factoid as emulate fisket, sylvanaar_work |
| 15:57.20 | sylvanaar_work | ~factinfo emulate Fisker |
| 15:57.20 | purl | emulate fisker -- created by Mikma <i=mikma@reaktio.net> at Mon Dec 4 23:01:20 2006 (1561 days); last modified at Sun Oct 28 09:55:21 2007 by Kemayo!n=kemayo@pool-71-103-215-86.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net; it has been requested 29 times, last by Elkano, 32m 51s ago. |
| 15:58.28 | sylvanaar_work | Kemayo: you so nasty! |
| 15:59.30 | sylvanaar_work | 2007 seems like just yesterday |
| 15:59.56 | nevcairiel | the good old days |
| 16:00.03 | sylvanaar_work | indeed |
| 16:00.04 | nevcairiel | man we've been at this for so long already |
| 16:00.43 | sylvanaar_work | yeah it has been a while hasnt it |
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| 16:32.04 | syeren | Does anyone use Foobar 2000 here? |
| 16:32.16 | syeren | I've installed a new soundcard, and now Foobar won't play any music -_- |
| 16:33.08 | selckin | put the speakers in the right hole |
| 16:33.14 | selckin | unmute it |
| 16:33.21 | syeren | Every other media player works. |
| 16:33.22 | syeren | ;p |
| 16:34.11 | selckin | i've had random application pick the digital output instead of the normal one |
| 16:34.16 | selckin | so disable that |
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| 16:40.46 | syeren | I found out the problem, selckin. |
| 16:40.49 | syeren | Thanks for your help ;p |
| 16:41.45 | selckin | what was it? |
| 16:42.18 | syeren | http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76543&hl=ASUS+Xonar |
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| 17:29.23 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03funkydude * r8294 Plugins (10 files in 2 directories): |
| 17:29.24 | Repo | Add patch by Aftermathh for beautycase skin, he says it works so if it doesn't we've got Fisker on standby. |
| 17:43.22 | mojosdojo- | http://www.steampowered.com/nvidia/ |
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| 18:19.06 | Sapu94 | question for somebody who knows a lot about the hidden addon channel...from what I can tell it's not possible for an addon on player A to send data to the same addon on player B unless it knows the name of player B or they are in the same raid / party / guild...is that correct? |
| 18:20.04 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 18:20.09 | Sapu94 | k thx |
| 18:20.10 | nevcairiel | there is no "global" addon channel |
| 18:20.19 | Sapu94 | right that's what I thought |
| 18:20.49 | Sapu94 | was trying to see if I could share AH scan data between multiple players...but guess it's not possible |
| 18:21.57 | Sapu94 | actually...couldn't the addon create a chat channel and print in there? like /5 or something and just remove it from the user's chat window? |
| 18:23.50 | nevcairiel | thats how addons usually do it |
| 18:24.02 | nevcairiel | but there is no really clean way to hide it from players |
| 18:24.09 | nevcairiel | it'll usually mess with channel ordering and whatnot |
| 18:24.21 | Sapu94 | yea right |
| 18:24.25 | Sapu94 | mk |
| 18:33.34 | Mikk | whisper comms is good |
| 18:33.57 | Mikk | use AceComm btw |
| 18:34.16 | Mikk | and AceSerializer |
| 18:34.20 | Zyn | custom channels were the old way for addons to communicate, and if you enabled them in your chat ... holy mother of god, chinese walls of text |
| 18:34.30 | Mikk | they deal with all the datapacking and rate limiting for you |
| 18:34.45 | Mikk | plus of course it was bloody annoying to have half your channels taken by addons |
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| 18:40.52 | quiescens | o.o |
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| 18:49.57 | Sapu94 | AceComm only deals with whisper / raid / party / guild...i'm talking about broadcasting to everybody on the server with the addon... |
| 18:50.16 | Sapu94 | and the data is already serialized :) |
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| 19:58.36 | Repo | 10inline-aura: 03Adirelle 07master * v1.6-beta-9-6-g6a39726 .pkgmeta: [+1 commit] Revert "Embed latest BugGrabber *tag*." as the packager does not properly handle files tagged as release using the web UI (instead of SCM tags). |
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| 20:15.31 | Gnarfoz | <Sapu94> was trying to see if I could share AH scan data between multiple players...but guess it's not possible <-- holy fuck would that be a lot of spam, why would you even want to create such an abombination? |
| 20:16.11 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03funkydude * r8295 Blackwing/Nefarian.lua: Blackwing/Nefarian: bugfix shadowblaze warning |
| 20:17.36 | mckenziemc | because Gnarfoz |
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| 20:23.45 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03funkydude * r8296 Blackwing/Nefarian.lua: Blackwing/Nefarian: tweak message |
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| 20:43.54 | nevcairiel | vhaarr, Funkeh`: range checker issue, i was standing right next to someone, and he didnt show up in the checker (custom one, not boss toggled) |
| 20:46.49 | nevcairiel | this was at nefarian hc, in case the mind control maybe confuses it, or something? dunno how its implemented :) |
| 20:47.50 | quiescens | magic! |
| 20:49.11 | Funkeh` | nevcairiel, was he in a group outwith the raid limit? e.g. group 3 for 10man |
| 20:49.22 | nevcairiel | no |
| 20:49.23 | mckenziemc | ~brand quiescens boot |
| 20:49.23 | purl | ACTION grabs a branding iron & stamps a big boot on quiescens's forehead |
| 20:49.31 | nevcairiel | group 5 in 25man |
| 20:49.39 | quiescens | dies. |
| 20:50.32 | Funkeh` | i assume it was only for this specific person nevcairiel |
| 20:50.44 | nevcairiel | didnt check everyone, biut yes |
| 20:52.56 | nevcairiel | noticed it in the middle of a fight, not much time to test stuff :D |
| 20:53.37 | Funkeh` | nevcairiel, you're a resto druid right? |
| 20:53.42 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 20:53.57 | quiescens | does nefarian do stuff like back in bwl? |
| 20:54.10 | nevcairiel | well he does summon some silly skeletal adds |
| 20:54.19 | nevcairiel | and he has a shadowflame breath |
| 20:54.21 | nevcairiel | other then that |
| 20:54.23 | nevcairiel | not really |
| 20:54.26 | quiescens | the last time i fought nefarian he turned me into a cat against my will |
| 20:55.01 | quiescens | also everyone else spamming heals on the tank because the priests were all mindless and stacked dots on the tank |
| 20:55.07 | Pneumatus | old nef > new nef :< |
| 20:55.15 | nevcairiel | classic > new content |
| 20:55.36 | Megalon | back in the days everything was better |
| 20:55.39 | Megalon | especially the future |
| 20:56.05 | quiescens | we ran in and got a couple of attacks in on nef |
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| 20:56.29 | Pneumatus | Ebonroc > Ivoroc, etc |
| 20:56.29 | quiescens | a couple hundred damage at least! |
| 20:56.56 | Megalon | if only nef only had a couple of hundred hp! |
| 20:57.12 | Pneumatus | i suppose it could be worse |
| 20:57.23 | Pneumatus | we could have to wear onyxia scale cloaks |
| 20:57.34 | Megalon | or hide inside the holes in the wall |
| 20:57.37 | Pneumatus | they don't even work on the trash drakes shadowflame either :< |
| 20:59.21 | nevcairiel | i still have mine |
| 20:59.34 | Pneumatus | i think my hunter still has one as well |
| 20:59.45 | Pneumatus | ive still got nature res gear from doing huhuran also |
| 20:59.50 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 20:59.56 | nevcairiel | the good ol' times |
| 21:00.01 | quiescens | that was so stupid |
| 21:00.03 | quiescens | o.o |
| 21:00.13 | Pneumatus | gearing for huhuran in maraudon was a bit fail |
| 21:00.54 | nevcairiel | i dunno, at least you got to go to a bit more then the endgame content |
| 21:01.17 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03funkydude * r8297 Blackwing/Nefarian.lua: |
| 21:01.18 | Repo | Blackwing/Nefarian: reduce personal shadowblaze check to 1 second. |
| 21:04.20 | Megalon | :c |
| 21:05.00 | Pneumatus | anyone know with google apps if its possible to have multiple domains all filter into a single mailbox? |
| 21:05.06 | Pneumatus | *for email |
| 21:05.36 | quiescens | probably |
| 21:06.34 | Pneumatus | i guessed it would probably be possible but i'll be damned if i can find anything in google's docs that confirm |
| 21:06.48 | quiescens | you should be able to add aliases for your domain |
| 21:07.03 | Yoshimo | ~seen Torhal |
| 21:07.14 | purl | torhal is currently on #wowprogramming (1d 15h 4m 23s) #wowuidev (1d 15h 4m 23s) #arl (1d 15h 4m 23s) #wowace (1d 15h 4m 23s) #curseforge (1d 15h 4m 23s). Has said a total of 45 messages. Is idling for 11h 1m 9s, last said: 'BWAH!'. |
| 21:07.19 | quiescens | search for domain alias or something like that |
| 21:15.53 | Adirelle | vhaarr, so I've got the answer : the packager does not handle not-SCM-tagged releases |
| 21:16.05 | Pneumatus | hmm, seems its only available in the business/educaton editions of apps |
| 21:16.06 | Pneumatus | that sucks |
| 21:26.23 | Torhal|work | Yoshimo: Hey there. |
| 21:30.28 | Ackis | ~seen torhal |
| 21:30.36 | purl | torhal is currently on #wowprogramming (1d 15h 27m 45s) #wowuidev (1d 15h 27m 45s) #arl (1d 15h 27m 45s) #wowace (1d 15h 27m 45s) #curseforge (1d 15h 27m 45s). Has said a total of 45 messages. Is idling for 11h 24m 31s, last said: 'BWAH!'. |
| 21:30.37 | Ackis | seen spot |
| 21:30.42 | Ackis | run torhal! run spot! |
| 21:30.54 | quiescens | the google apps stuff seems a bit steep really, $50 per user or whatever |
| 21:31.50 | Torhal|work | bodyslams Ackis into a bonfire. |
| 21:31.56 | Torhal|work | cackles. |
| 21:31.59 | Pneumatus | quiescens: you only have to pay for it if you want more than 50 acconts, or any of the business features |
| 21:32.01 | Pneumatus | in theory |
| 21:32.09 | quiescens | even so, per user |
| 21:32.30 | quiescens | is probably not the usual pricing system |
| 21:32.39 | quiescens | and 50 is a fair bit for a per user thingy |
| 21:33.01 | Pneumatus | idk, $50/year/user is probably cheaper than managing the equivalent infrastructure |
| 21:33.44 | *** join/#wowace profalbert (~profalber@91-113-13-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 21:34.02 | Pneumatus | it seems I could make a google apps account for each of my domains then suck all the mails into a single consolidated mailbox |
| 21:34.46 | quiescens | couldn't you just use it for the one domain, and then set up a forward at the others in any number of ways |
| 21:35.12 | Pneumatus | i want to ditch my current mail server, which is the whole point |
| 21:35.56 | Pneumatus | i've got 5 domains, currently each with their own pop3 account, but ideally I want the whole lot filtering into a single account that i can hook up to outlook/my phone/etc |
| 21:36.40 | wink | gmail makes me cry |
| 21:37.08 | wink | I'm happy for everyone who loves it, but I just can't work with it |
| 21:37.22 | Pneumatus | i hate the web interface, but for an imap service its fine :P |
| 21:37.39 | wink | prefers dovecot |
| 21:38.25 | Pneumatus | well, ive got dovecot running at the moment with roundcube for webmail but even so, i want rid of my own setup |
| 21:38.28 | Pneumatus | im fed up of managing it |
| 21:38.39 | wink | hehe |
| 21:38.44 | wink | that's part of the fun |
| 21:43.22 | *** join/#wowace daev` (~bleh@pool-71-188-132-215.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:58.39 | *** join/#wowace daev` (~bleh@pool-71-188-132-215.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:00.40 | *** join/#wowace Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-170-118-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:15.42 | *** join/#wowace Funkeh` (~funk@5ad71179.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:15.43 | *** join/#wowace Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 22:15.43 | *** mode/#wowace [+o Funkeh`] by ChanServ |
| 22:19.52 | Sapu94 | @gnarfoz..it wouldn't send the data over the channel...would use the hidden addon channel for that once somebody requested it |
| 22:20.06 | Gnarfoz | that's... not really any better |
| 22:20.17 | Gnarfoz | well, better, but still wtf amounts of data |
| 22:20.20 | Sapu94 | the "hey I have some data"...and "hey X player wants that data" would be over the channel |
| 22:20.37 | *** join/#wowace Motig (~Motig@dhcp-077-249-165-208.chello.nl) |
| 22:20.39 | Sapu94 | and it would be hidden from the user unless the user specifically tried to see it |
| 22:20.52 | Gnarfoz | hooray for 4.1 server side addon communication prefix registering ;P |
| 22:21.08 | Repo | 10raidbuffstatus: 03danielbarron 04v4.12 * r454 : RaidBuffStatus: |
| 22:21.09 | Repo | - Tagged for release. |
| 22:21.24 | Sapu94 | still doesn't help my situation though heh |
| 22:25.20 | Sapu94 | but....just realized it would take a minute and a half to send all that data...so probably not a good idea :p |
| 22:38.56 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03StingerSoft * r8298 / (2 files in 2 directories): ruRU update |
| 22:41.48 | Repo | 10shunkit: 03LaoTseu * r43 ShuckIt.lua: |
| 22:41.49 | Repo | When there is a quest starting item, listen to QUEST_LOG_UPDATE to catch when the quest is accepted or abandoned. |
| 22:43.14 | *** join/#wowace Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 22:44.59 | *** join/#wowace profalbert1 (~profalber@188-23-44-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#wowace mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.248.58.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 22:48.17 | *** join/#wowace daev (~bleh@pool-71-188-132-215.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:04.39 | *** join/#wowace Grokse (~gr@209-234-197-181.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 23:07.37 | *** join/#wowace Grokse (~gr@209-234-197-181.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 23:10.43 | *** join/#wowace cncfanatics2 (~cncfanati@91.181.150.83) |
| 23:20.50 | Caleb| | @wowalert |
| 23:20.56 | Caleb| | !wowalert |
| 23:21.03 | quiescens | ~ |
| 23:21.07 | Caleb| | ~wowalert |
| 23:21.07 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 23:21.18 | Caleb| | thx quiescens 3/1 not that bad ratio |
| 23:21.26 | quiescens | you would have gotten there eventually |
| 23:21.32 | quiescens | there are only so many punctuation marks |
| 23:21.40 | Caleb| | idd |
| 23:23.48 | mckenziemc | directs quiescens to Unicode |
| 23:25.38 | mckenziemc | â kill quiescens |
| 23:26.16 | mckenziemc | âdosomething |
| 23:26.25 | Repo | 10cowtip_luatext: 03profalbert 07master * v0.9.1-beta-1-g31759cc / (2 files in 1 directory): [+2 commits] |
| 23:26.27 | Repo | 31759cc: add some more templates |
| 23:26.28 | Repo | 4e31d39: update changelog |
| 23:29.48 | mckenziemc | stabs Torhal with an interrobang |
| 23:30.29 | *** join/#wowace Grovyr (~Jay@cpe-075-181-060-209.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 23:36.09 | *** join/#wowace Brandon__ (~rbarreiro@87.196.30.97) |
| 23:44.38 | Repo | 10inline-aura: 03Adirelle 07master * v1.6-beta-9-7-g9db0d8e StateModules.lua: [+1 commit] Hopefully fixed health/power state modules. |
