| 00:04.28 | NivFreak | Antiarc: having fun with the AH yet? :P |
| 00:04.44 | Antiarc | NivFreak: Indeed :P |
| 00:06.09 | NivFreak | when you gold cap 10 accounts, I'll let you gold cap mine |
| 00:06.12 | NivFreak | I'm too lazy |
| 00:06.17 | NivFreak | er, 10 characters |
| 00:06.33 | NivFreak | ;) |
| 00:06.37 | Antiarc | I'm getting some basic analysis map/reduce stuff written right now |
| 00:06.41 | Antiarc | <3 mongodb |
| 00:06.50 | NivFreak | I'm still trying to figure out what to spend my gold on |
| 00:07.48 | NivFreak | it's a shame you don't get better time granularity as part of this |
| 00:07.53 | NivFreak | or completed auction info |
| 00:08.30 | Primer | is stuck writing javascript for the man |
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| 00:24.49 | sylvanaar | does anyone have a link to the PTR diffs? |
| 00:25.18 | sylvanaar | i think nevcairiel posted one, dunno if he is around |
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| 00:33.47 | Primer | <nevcairiel> yoshimo: if you are still looking for that repo, i just forked his and pushed the last two ptr patches http://github.com/Nevcairiel/wow-ui-source |
| 00:34.04 | Primer | sylvanaar^^^^^ |
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| 00:56.57 | vhaarr | Fisker: the quest item is unique, there's no way to get it twice |
| 01:03.37 | Repo | 10pitbull4: 03Shefki 07master * v4.0.0-beta9-21-gb4293fe / (8 files in 8 directories): [+1 commit] Rework frame levels. Includes fix for Ticket #743 (Inconsistent Portrait frame level) |
| 01:04.36 | Fisker | vhaarr you'd have completed the quest by then |
| 01:04.45 | Fisker | and as i then thought, you could just give it to someone else |
| 01:05.26 | vhaarr | you're not making any sense |
| 01:05.47 | Fisker | Take quest-item -> turn in -> item doesn't exist -> no unique limitations |
| 01:05.49 | Fisker | durr? |
| 01:06.12 | vhaarr | after you turn it in, you can't do the quest again |
| 01:06.32 | vhaarr | the item from LK only drops if someone has the quest |
| 01:06.48 | vhaarr | whether or not Shadowmourne is there makes no difference, you can leave it in the bank |
| 01:06.54 | Fisker | That's why i said i figured that you could just give it to another person using trade/master looter |
| 01:07.03 | vhaarr | no, the quest item is bop and unique |
| 01:07.11 | vhaarr | after you turn it in, you get the chest, which is also bop |
| 01:07.18 | vhaarr | then you can loot the items, which are tradable |
| 01:07.33 | vhaarr | at which point you no longer have the first quest and are unable to ever get the quest drop from LK again |
| 01:08.13 | Fisker | hisses at the thought of anyone trying to lay claim to my sealed chest then |
| 01:08.19 | Fisker | really want the deathcharger |
| 01:08.47 | pentium166 | you can have it |
| 01:08.52 | Fisker | no! |
| 01:08.52 | pentium166 | for fifty thousand gold |
| 01:08.59 | Fisker | hah |
| 01:09.10 | Fisker | i'd probably buy it just to sell it for 100k then |
| 01:09.42 | pentium166 | and then get banned for exploiting the economy by legitimately selling a rare item really high |
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| 01:09.53 | pentium166 | everyone wins! |
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| 01:23.29 | Repo | 10pitbull4: 03Shefki 07master * v4.0.0-beta9-22-g1fb3464 Modules/Highlight/Highlight.lua: [+1 commit] Missed setting the Highlight frame to the Overlay level. |
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| 01:57.25 | Repo | 10bad-boy: 03funkydude * r504 / (2 files in 1 directory): blacklist update |
| 01:58.38 | Repo | 10bad-boy: 03funkydude 04v4.2.5.3 * r505 : Tagging as v4.2.5.3 |
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| 02:12.08 | sylvanaar | these chat changes look like they are going to mess me up - though i still havent finished downloading the ptr |
| 02:16.52 | Shefki | sylvanaar: Of all things they could work on, building WIM into the game is the last thing I would have chosen. |
| 02:17.50 | sylvanaar | i hope they dont release this anytime soon |
| 02:18.36 | sylvanaar | i wont have time to update prat until june - thats assuming that i will even try |
| 02:20.53 | sylvanaar | x-realm chat. why even have realms anymore... |
| 02:21.29 | sylvanaar | just make 1 giant cloud |
| 02:21.49 | WobWork | I'd like that |
| 02:21.58 | sylvanaar | me too |
| 02:22.24 | sylvanaar | server x-fers are probably good money for them though |
| 02:26.07 | Shefki | sylvanaar: I don't think chat is the limitation on the realms though. |
| 02:26.16 | Shefki | Everyone in Dalaran would be horrible. |
| 02:27.52 | Shefki | They probably could raise battlegroups to just the top level and get rid of realms. |
| 02:28.03 | Shefki | If they added something to limit number of people showing in the client. |
| 02:28.44 | sylvanaar | Phasing |
| 02:29.00 | Shefki | Sorta, but that's not what I was thinking of. |
| 02:29.04 | sylvanaar | "Dynamic Instancing" |
| 02:29.13 | Shefki | I was thinking of a config setting to adjust the number of players shown. |
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| 02:40.35 | Artimidorus121 | where would i find a example or info on changing an anchor point using lua? |
| 02:41.32 | Shefki | SetPoint and ClearAllPoints |
| 02:41.54 | Artimidorus121 | ok thanks ill look that up |
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| 04:32.03 | Groktar | tubgirls |
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| 05:31.39 | MysticalOS | :o blizz may have finally killed fubar |
| 05:33.16 | MysticalOS | heh the new build also broke avr, who didn't see that coming |
| 05:33.32 | Shefki | MysticalOS: Ohh what did they change? |
| 05:34.06 | MysticalOS | Message: ...ce\AddOns\FuBar\libs\LibJostle-3.0\LibJostle-3.0.lua line 90: |
| 05:34.06 | MysticalOS | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.32 | MysticalOS | Message: ..\AddOns\AVR\3d.lua line 336: |
| 05:34.32 | MysticalOS | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.59 | MysticalOS | Message: ..\AddOns\FuBar\FuBar_Panel.lua line 268: |
| 05:34.59 | MysticalOS | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:35.01 | Shefki | Interesting so they broke AVR without breaking other stuff. |
| 05:35.17 | MysticalOS | seems to be a few function changes |
| 05:35.27 | MysticalOS | that weren't broken in first 3.3.5 build |
| 05:36.01 | Shefki | Interesting. |
| 05:36.41 | MysticalOS | but the only one that really matters is avr, it backtraces to makecameramatrix and startrender functions failing |
| 05:37.00 | Shefki | They removed the cvars with the camera position stuff. |
| 05:37.01 | Shefki | lol |
| 05:37.04 | MysticalOS | if it's fixable, or blizz intentionally cockblocking it we'll see when olog looks at it |
| 05:37.12 | Shefki | It's not fixable. |
| 05:37.29 | Shefki | Makes it impossible to draw on the world. |
| 05:37.36 | MysticalOS | well like i said, who didn't see that coming |
| 05:37.38 | Shefki | Becuase you don't know where the player is looking. |
| 05:39.03 | Arrowmaster | shocked they didnt remove that sooner |
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| 05:39.15 | Arrowmaster | its worked for years |
| 05:40.48 | MysticalOS | so who's gonna bet someone still fixes fubar |
| 05:41.08 | MysticalOS | from what i can tell it's only screwing up cause librock was broken |
| 05:41.15 | MysticalOS | and libjostle |
| 05:42.03 | Arrowmaster | you realize im just about to make a commit to libjostle since others are bitching at me since its used by more than just fubar |
| 05:42.13 | MysticalOS | yeah |
| 05:42.14 | MysticalOS | i know |
| 05:42.25 | MysticalOS | bazooka and chocolatebar |
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| 05:46.16 | Repo | 10libjostle-3-0: 03Arrowmaster * r50 LibJostle-3.0.lua: |
| 05:46.18 | Repo | Only hook FCF_UpdateCombatLogPosition if it exists. Fixes errors on PTR but functionality not restored. |
| 05:47.15 | Shefki | Arrowmaster: Raise the major. :P |
| 05:47.24 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 05:47.31 | Shefki | And make some ridiculously trivial API change. |
| 05:47.42 | Shefki | Poof no more FuBar. :P |
| 05:47.58 | Arrowmaster | why would i do that |
| 05:48.08 | Arrowmaster | i still used fubar before i quit |
| 05:48.16 | Arrowmaster | and it still makes me money |
| 05:48.23 | SunTsu | Did I just hear the crowd cheer? Or was it only ckknight? |
| 05:48.25 | Arrowmaster | that is whenever i get around to filling out that W-9 |
| 05:48.59 | Arrowmaster | has 40,000 points to redeem |
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| 05:55.31 | MysticalOS | arrow, you gonna hit up ace2 with a ptr fix? |
| 05:55.46 | Shefki | MysticalOS: If he doesn't I will, it's on my list. |
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| 06:01.27 | Arrowmaster | what else is broken in it now? |
| 06:01.43 | Arrowmaster | i already know the chat channel handling in it is totally fucked |
| 06:02.01 | Shefki | AceTab throws errors about the EditBox |
| 06:02.03 | Arrowmaster | and if you say acetab ill just fucking delete that damn thing |
| 06:02.10 | Shefki | lol |
| 06:02.11 | Shadowed | haha |
| 06:03.04 | Shefki | I started to fix it, looked at the code and realized I didn't have the time to figure it out. |
| 06:03.13 | Shadowed | or insanity |
| 06:03.51 | Shefki | Hey I'm crazy enough to keep fixing LibRock so I probably qualify as crazy enough to fix AceTab. |
| 06:03.59 | Shadowed | yes |
| 06:04.00 | Shadowed | you do |
| 06:04.05 | Shadowed | ugh rock |
| 06:04.09 | MysticalOS | is broken again |
| 06:04.22 | Repo | 10ace2: 03Arrowmaster * r1099 Ace2.toc: |
| 06:04.24 | Repo | Stop loading AceTab-2.0 in standalone. Nobody should have been using it anyway, the code is a complete mess, and its broken on the PTR. |
| 06:04.27 | Shefki | MysticalOS: Don't think I'll fix it this time. |
| 06:04.46 | MysticalOS | does anything even use it anymore besides fubar? |
| 06:04.46 | Arrowmaster | told you i would do it |
| 06:04.56 | Shefki | MysticalOS: PB3 |
| 06:05.09 | MysticalOS | ah, i thought you already abandoned that |
| 06:05.14 | Shadowed | haha |
| 06:05.16 | Shefki | I'm herding people. |
| 06:05.18 | Arrowmaster | fubar, cartographer, and pitbull3 are the only things that use rock |
| 06:05.24 | Shadowed | use which, Ace2 or Rock? |
| 06:05.26 | Shadowed | oh yea PB3 uses rock |
| 06:05.28 | Shadowed | haha poor Shefki |
| 06:05.35 | Shadowed | you should just let it break |
| 06:05.56 | pompy | What do ppl use in place of XRS these days? |
| 06:06.02 | MysticalOS | i actually have a couple in my guild that still use 3, they say 4 lacks customability to their liking or some crap, I wouldn't know I've never used it |
| 06:06.05 | Shefki | Shadowed: I'm not sure which is worse, the whining about PB3 being broken or the whining because PB4 is different. |
| 06:06.12 | Shadowed | well |
| 06:06.13 | Shefki | MysticalOS: They're wrong and lazy. |
| 06:06.18 | Shadowed | I assume that 4.0 is going to break quite a bit of rock |
| 06:06.20 | Shadowed | and probably pb3 |
| 06:06.30 | Shefki | Shadowed: I've told them I won't fix it for 4.0 period. |
| 06:06.31 | Shadowed | So they'll have to move soon anyway |
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| 06:06.39 | Shefki | I've said I'll fix trivial problems until then. |
| 06:06.40 | Shadowed | I know dogtags is completely broken on alpha |
| 06:06.44 | Arrowmaster | does anything else in Ace2 break on the PTR? |
| 06:06.54 | Shefki | Arrowmaster: Not that I know of. |
| 06:06.55 | Shadowed | Arrowmaster acelibrary probably |
| 06:06.58 | Shadowed | or something else obscure |
| 06:07.12 | MysticalOS | to be honestly i haven't actually checked which addons use ace2 still i have to see if they are working |
| 06:07.21 | Arrowmaster | grid |
| 06:07.40 | Arrowmaster | i know AceComm-2.0 is fucked up and has been for a long time |
| 06:07.49 | Shefki | I need to rewrite CooldownTimers2 since the CooldownTimers3 is horrible. |
| 06:08.26 | Shadowed | how is acecomm fucked |
| 06:08.31 | Shadowed | actually |
| 06:08.33 | Shadowed | don't tell me |
| 06:08.35 | Shadowed | I don't want to know |
| 06:08.43 | Arrowmaster | the way it handles joining channels |
| 06:08.54 | Shadowed | oh |
| 06:08.57 | Shadowed | ok thats not too bad |
| 06:09.07 | Arrowmaster | if you try to logout when not resting and then press cancel youll get a nice big taint error |
| 06:09.15 | Arrowmaster | and i think it will keep logging out |
| 06:09.34 | Shadowed | awesome |
| 06:10.02 | Arrowmaster | !api joinchannel |
| 06:10.02 | lua_bot | JoinChannelByName: This function is deprecated and should no longer be used (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/JoinChannelByName) |
| 06:10.07 | Arrowmaster | hmm |
| 06:10.33 | Arrowmaster | !api join.+channel |
| 06:10.34 | lua_bot | Found 2 possible results for 'join.+channel': JoinPermanentChannel, JoinTemporaryChannel |
| 06:11.00 | Arrowmaster | impossible to update acecomm-2.0 to use those functions instead of the old one without rewriting major parts of it |
| 06:11.33 | MysticalOS | i still have quite a few addons that use ace2. :\ |
| 06:12.25 | MysticalOS | hmm, that jostile update fixed fubar, as minor as it was |
| 06:13.08 | Arrowmaster | it was just a hook to know when to move the chatframe |
| 06:13.20 | Arrowmaster | but the chatframes got completely redone didnt they |
| 06:13.26 | Arrowmaster | so it doesnt really matter |
| 06:13.56 | MysticalOS | lib has always failed to handle chat frame for as long as i've used it anyways |
| 06:14.08 | MysticalOS | it always renders it behind warrior stance buttons instead of over them |
| 06:14.14 | Arrowmaster | maybe its only in simple chat mode that it does that |
| 06:14.29 | Arrowmaster | since you cant move the chatframes in simple chat mode |
| 06:15.05 | Arrowmaster | its seriously really old and mostly broken, i dont know why so many new addons are depending on it |
| 06:15.41 | Arrowmaster | my reward points log is fucking epic |
| 06:15.47 | Arrowmaster | 14 hours ago 7.2922 Generated points ItemPrice-1.1 |
| 06:15.59 | Arrowmaster | 14 hours ago 10.4740 Generated points InstanceMaps |
| 06:16.29 | Arrowmaster | 14 hours ago 3.4101 Generated points BigWigs_MC |
| 06:16.43 | Shadowed | hahah |
| 06:16.44 | Shadowed | how the |
| 06:16.51 | Arrowmaster | 14 hours ago 1.4261 Generated points LibGUIDRegistry-0.1 |
| 06:17.14 | MysticalOS | you'd be surprised how popular MC stuff is. In between ToC and ICC we finally caved and ported the old MC mods to DBMv4 just to appease the whining |
| 06:17.16 | Torhal | Shadowed: Points are based on premium user install base |
| 06:17.21 | Shadowed | yea I know |
| 06:17.22 | Shadowed | but still |
| 06:17.25 | Torhal | There are a fuckton of idiots still using Threat-1.0 |
| 06:17.46 | Shadowed | MysticalOS are you on the DBM team |
| 06:17.48 | Torhal | Key word being "idiots" |
| 06:17.53 | MysticalOS | yeah, since like 3.2 |
| 06:18.09 | Shadowed | does it still loadstring the commahnds |
| 06:18.10 | Shadowed | if so I hate you |
| 06:18.10 | Arrowmaster | MysticalOS: wait when did DBM's MC mods break? |
| 06:18.55 | Arrowmaster | MysticalOS: and you realize half this channel now hates you right? |
| 06:19.09 | MysticalOS | :P |
| 06:19.19 | MysticalOS | I just do the encounter modules, I don't really mess w ith the core stuff |
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| 06:19.31 | MysticalOS | i enjoy the challenge of figuring out encounter mechanics |
| 06:19.33 | Arrowmaster | the core stuff is part of the worst |
| 06:19.49 | MysticalOS | the core is overdo for a rewrite, and it's going to be in 4.0 they say |
| 06:23.37 | MysticalOS | but i just enjoy figuring out encounters, like valithria, blazing skeletons spawn at a diminishing rate of 5 seconds faster than prevous, until soft enrage around 7min. they always open with fireball. I think i raid more for learning the encounter design than actually killing it :) |
| 06:24.23 | Shefki | You guys really should set the stuff that's utterly pointless as obsolete. |
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| 06:28.57 | haste | but MC bossmods are needed! |
| 06:29.51 | MysticalOS | all BC/classic mods are optional downloads. they don't get included with core. the only thing i use in the MC mods is my afk ragnaros combat start timer ;) |
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| 07:40.50 | Repo | 10links: 03jerry * r118 Links.lua: Compatibility with 12045 |
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| 07:56.05 | Repo | 10talented: 03jerry * r646 chat.lua: Compatibility with 12045 |
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| 09:29.14 | harl | hallo |
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| 09:57.31 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Ammo * r7473 Northrend/Halion.lua: cleanup |
| 09:58.15 | Megalon | Fisker |
| 09:58.39 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Ammo * r7474 Northrend/Halion.lua: cleanup and remove leaky unused global |
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| 10:14.59 | Fisker | Megalon |
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| 10:23.50 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Maat * r7475 Northrend/Halion.lua: fix that assertion error |
| 10:30.24 | Fisker | Megalon |
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| 11:10.50 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Pettigrow * r7476 / (4 files in 4 directories): frFR Update |
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| 12:05.14 | koaschten | Shadowed how do you do "bad for ..." items? Because seeing melee dps with a Zod's Repeating Longbow and getting 100% on gear just hurts :( |
| 12:06.43 | RLD_osx | Kaelten : Have you heard of any tooltip anomalies with onebag/onebank and altoholic?. so far it only shows up on 3 enchanting mats. tooltip says I have more than what is in inventory or bank. the items are void crystal, vision dust, elemental earth. |
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| 12:14.49 | Fisker | koaschten why is it bad? |
| 12:15.32 | Fisker | EA is more about whether or not it's a usable item, not if it's a "not optimal" item |
| 12:17.07 | vhaarr | what does it have, like 30 agi? |
| 12:17.10 | koaschten | 22 |
| 12:17.13 | vhaarr | there are better blue ranged ones for melee |
| 12:17.18 | koaschten | exactly |
| 12:18.00 | koaschten | its basically 22 agi + the socket which is ... yellow or blue? dont know |
| 12:18.17 | koaschten | but yes... basically any patch 3.1+ loot is better |
| 12:18.35 | koaschten | bye a factor of 5 |
| 12:18.38 | koaschten | by |
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| 12:36.53 | Lysithea | koaschten, what I've noticed the only "bad for ... " is judged if the items got the wrong sort of stats for that specc |
| 12:37.00 | Lysithea | like.. spellpower for a warrior |
| 12:37.09 | Lysithea | tank item for a ret |
| 12:37.10 | Lysithea | etc |
| 12:37.39 | Lysithea | not about the quality of the item if it has stats that do something for that specc |
| 12:38.40 | koaschten | the point with zod is, it's just bad... and shouldn't be used by melee |
| 12:38.50 | koaschten | most of the gain comes from a proc that melee never triggers |
| 12:40.28 | Lysithea | I guess, but it doesnt really have any pure stats that's wrong for them |
| 12:40.59 | Lysithea | but yea shouldnt be on a melee if there's a hunter there that needs it |
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| 12:46.24 | koaschten | no matter what, it should never be on a melee, EVER |
| 12:56.44 | wink | shards are worthless, so I disagree |
| 13:06.20 | koaschten | wink trust me, for a rogue, that bow is worth less than a shard, because for the value of the shard you could buy a green bow of the auctionhouse that'd be better.... check http://tinyurl.com/35j7w7v and look for zod |
| 13:06.56 | Fisker | nah |
| 13:07.05 | Fisker | green bows can be dissed into GCE's |
| 13:07.06 | wink | it's gearscore++ :) |
| 13:07.12 | wink | I love the flavor text |
| 13:07.17 | wink | I'd love to have it |
| 13:07.21 | wink | with my nightslayer armor |
| 13:07.28 | wink | strutting around in Dalaran |
| 13:07.35 | wink | invading pugs with 1500 GS |
| 13:08.04 | Fisker | and you're wrong you can't buy a green bow of th auction house that's better according to that list :3 |
| 13:08.31 | Fisker | also as i said, it's still whether or not you can use the item, not whether or not it's good |
| 13:08.47 | Fisker | who knows, maybe he did have a green bow before? :3 |
| 13:10.07 | koaschten | to be fair, you probably should add socket value to 50 on that filter too |
| 13:10.15 | koaschten | to accomodate the value of an arp gem in that socket |
| 13:10.20 | koaschten | but heck, that doesn't change shit |
| 13:11.08 | wink | RP ITEM! |
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| 13:11.28 | wink | I really have no clue with what ranged weapon I dinged on either rogue |
| 13:11.40 | wink | on the second probably still the Sethekk Dart thingies |
| 13:11.50 | wink | so yes, upgrade++ |
| 13:12.47 | koaschten | wink let me put it that way, A Deadly Saronite Dirk, ilvl 171 blacksmith crafted bind on equip is 15% better than Zod |
| 13:13.09 | wink | I know, I know |
| 13:13.19 | wink | but sometimes.. you don't find stuff on the AH |
| 13:13.26 | wink | or are too lazy to get stuff crafted |
| 13:13.28 | koaschten | Or the Barrel-Bladed Longrifle BoE from last expansion of Doomwalker |
| 13:13.38 | wink | which is ultrarare |
| 13:13.49 | wink | no one does DW on my server |
| 13:14.09 | koaschten | heck, even the Tracker's Balanced KNives ilvl 200 BoE from Utgarde is better |
| 13:14.13 | Fisker | Let me put it this way, EA doesn't determine the value of the item, but rather if it can be used in a meaningful way for the current class |
| 13:14.15 | Fisker | it can |
| 13:14.18 | Fisker | discussion over. |
| 13:16.24 | Fisker | MOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR |
| 13:16.31 | Fisker | baww |
| 13:16.44 | Fisker | 256.76 leaked |
| 13:16.46 | Fisker | but only 32-bit |
| 13:24.32 | Lysithea | what Fisker said, doesnt matter if it's bad... the stats still makes sense for the class |
| 13:24.43 | Lysithea | would've been different if it had... say.. spellpower |
| 13:25.06 | Fisker | or no agility at all |
| 13:25.12 | Lysithea | or that |
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| 13:25.37 | Lysithea | if it had 1agi, it'll still pass |
| 13:25.51 | Lysithea | since it falls into the right stat category for that class |
| 13:25.55 | Lysithea | it's horribly bad sure |
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| 15:46.16 | Znuff | NGEN |
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| 17:28.29 | Repo | 10big-wigs: 03Maat * r7477 Northrend/Halion.lua: fixfix bossid |
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| 17:48.56 | Repo | 10libbossids-1-0: 03yoshimo * r44 LibBossIDs-1.0.lua: Ruby Sanctum 3.3.5 PTR |
| 17:48.58 | Repo | Halion (twilight realm) |
| 17:49.02 | steev | is there an updated trinketmenu like addon? |
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| 17:54.56 | Andols | Hello :) |
| 18:00.46 | Xinhuan | don't need one steev? default UI |
| 18:00.53 | Xinhuan | just hold alt on trinket in paper doll |
| 18:03.28 | steev | Xinhuan: paper doll? you mean the character screen? |
| 18:03.37 | Xinhuan | yes |
| 18:03.44 | Xinhuan | that is the paper doll |
| 18:03.47 | steev | meh, not quite what i'm looking for - the 2 buttons |
| 18:03.51 | Xinhuan | the code calls it the paper doll too |
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| 18:35.38 | Cyprias | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25002150557&sid=1 |
| 18:35.38 | Cyprias | blue post explaining the nerf to AVR in 3.3.5 |
| 18:37.00 | nevcairiel | yay official confirmation |
| 18:49.04 | Killmore | yep |
| 18:50.41 | Megalon | this is the reason why we can't have nice things |
| 18:51.34 | Cyprias | Why did addons have access to the camera pitch in the first place? does the default UI use it in anyway? |
| 18:52.50 | Megalon | why did addons have access to movement functions in the first place? ;> |
| 18:54.33 | nevcairiel | Its stored in cvars so the camera position is saved between relogs |
| 18:54.40 | nevcairiel | now they just blocked access to those cvars |
| 18:54.45 | Cyprias | ah |
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| 19:00.31 | Zyn | still waiting for GS to break, as it's cancer |
| 19:02.00 | Killmore | its just sad when a dev see is hard work scraped ;( |
| 19:02.27 | Shadowed | It's really not that shocking |
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| 19:04.25 | Nechckn | Although not shocking, it was pretty unique in what it brought together. Perhaps the whole pre-encounter sharing thing will still function, as it appears it will. |
| 19:04.38 | Shadowed | Hrm? |
| 19:04.40 | Shadowed | No it won't |
| 19:05.06 | Shadowed | They completely blocked all of the camera CVars, I guess technically you could duplicate it if you had people pull them from the SV and manually entered it but |
| 19:05.13 | Shadowed | it would be a pain in the ass to do |
| 19:05.24 | nevcairiel | one character movement, and it would be off |
| 19:05.31 | Shadowed | yea |
| 19:05.45 | Nechckn | Well, first, I have not used it, only ever seen one video a while back. As a draw and share, it seems that portion would work just fine, with no access to camera angles, et al. |
| 19:06.05 | Shadowed | You need the camera info to do the 3D fakery |
| 19:06.57 | Nechckn | And, yes, realize there had been like whiteboard and such, before... but, at least that aspect will still be around- unless they remove more than just the camera angle. |
| 19:08.17 | nevcairiel | AVR was all based on the draw-on-3d, not one aspect of it will still work |
| 19:08.34 | Shadowed | Yea it had no 2D drawing as far as I know |
| 19:08.42 | Nechckn | Oh? |
| 19:08.54 | Nechckn | Well, if it did/does not, then sure. |
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| 19:37.08 | yoshimo | Nechckn, the cvar is "empty" even if you are outside of combat |
| 19:38.45 | Nechckn | For 2-d whiteboarding, you do not need to know much of anything - but, if it does not have that, then, as noted, it will not work. Never used it, so only had a basic idea of what it was/is. |
| 19:39.54 | steev | the video for Halion looks interesting |
| 19:41.25 | yoshimo | can you reccomend a good one ? |
| 19:41.41 | Cyprias | ArtPad? |
| 19:47.47 | Nechckn | I just think that, rather than looking at one guild's site or whatever, that having some basic idea of what is happening for Pug types - and those who are deaf like the one poster in that thread, is a good idea. Especially when there are different ways to win a specific fight/instance. |
| 19:48.08 | Nechckn | During the event, they can all be locked out as far as I am concerned. Heck, have the whole UI locked out, with only the default setup allowed during the very high end encounters, if they want to control the how/what. |
| 19:48.38 | steev | http://i.imgur.com/W6zzI.jpg |
| 19:49.41 | Nechckn | so very true |
| 19:52.52 | yoshimo | ;) |
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| 20:15.17 | TNSe | So how long until we have wow scripts that run sc2 build order reminder lists? :P |
| 20:15.21 | *** join/#wowace Kilroo (~Kilroo@174.111.58.51) |
| 20:15.27 | TNSe | wow client w/script communicating with a sc2 client :P |
| 20:16.53 | yoshimo | we have battlenet which works crossgames, so lets see what we can do with that ;) |
| 20:16.57 | TNSe | exactly |
| 20:18.36 | Caleb| | then we just gonna have to see how long it will take for them to block it |
| 20:18.44 | Caleb| | just like they blocked AVR |
| 20:20.17 | yoshimo | Caleb|, we will see if people will come up with things as bad as AVR^^ |
| 20:20.28 | yoshimo | i think the new ah stuff is more critical |
| 20:21.12 | Caleb| | I actually have no idea about that, I personally have never had gold issue, so never really bothered to play the AH game |
| 20:21.26 | Caleb| | and no I was not buying gold |
| 20:22.15 | nevcairiel | You can only use it when you're not logged in, and you have to buy the service, and a daily transaction limit, so for the big AH game, it doesnt work so good |
| 20:22.28 | yoshimo | ah ok limit |
| 20:22.44 | Grum | Antiarc: you making maphud? :) |
| 20:22.53 | Antiarc | hudmap, but yes |
| 20:23.01 | Grum | hudmap meh! same difference |
| 20:23.03 | nevcairiel | you deleted it yet? |
| 20:23.05 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 20:23.06 | Antiarc | Nope. |
| 20:23.14 | Antiarc | ~describe HudMap |
| 20:23.15 | Grum | that should be allowed i think |
| 20:23.21 | Antiarc | I've asked for a ruling on it. |
| 20:23.25 | Fisker | so Antiarc |
| 20:23.25 | Antiarc | If they nix it, I'll can it. |
| 20:23.30 | Fisker | no |
| 20:23.32 | Fisker | just make it |
| 20:23.37 | Fisker | i want to draw them out of the bushes |
| 20:23.47 | Fisker | nameplates = modification of the 3d world basically |
| 20:23.55 | Fisker | except they don't get blocked for it |
| 20:24.05 | nevcairiel | Antiarc: it doesnt draw 3d, just a 2d HUD with the positions, right? |
| 20:24.06 | Fisker | so obviously the issue was that people used range in clever new ways not seen before |
| 20:24.13 | Fisker | yeah nevcairiel |
| 20:24.18 | Fisker | but you gotta be pretty stupid to not figure it out |
| 20:24.27 | Antiarc | Right, nevcairiel |
| 20:24.38 | Fisker | left = left, forward = up, backwards = down, right = right |
| 20:24.51 | nevcairiel | you should mix those up randomly for Fisker |
| 20:25.08 | Fisker | I think you should just proceed Antiarc |
| 20:25.21 | Fisker | Because it's obviously the range fiddling they take offense to |
| 20:25.34 | Fisker | they don't give a shit about the overlaying into the 3d game world |
| 20:25.38 | nevcairiel | HudMap won't help those stupid people, imho |
| 20:26.12 | nevcairiel | mapping from a 2d hud onto the 3d world still requires some higher brain function |
| 20:26.31 | Fisker | must be right around the iq required to open a door |
| 20:27.05 | nevcairiel | guess why most doors just open when you run against them long enough and push them open |
| 20:27.40 | Shefki | The AVR blue post thread is hilarious. |
| 20:27.54 | Shefki | "But how will we kill bosses now?" |
| 20:28.06 | Shefki | laughs off into the sunset at this. |
| 20:28.35 | Cyprias | think he said that sarcastically |
| 20:28.45 | Grum | nah its quite the help tbh |
| 20:28.47 | yoshimo | shefki, let me ask,how did they kill bosses before? ;) |
| 20:28.59 | Grum | makes some game-effects utterly trivial |
| 20:29.01 | Shefki | yoshimo: I guess they didn't, bwahahaha |
| 20:29.11 | yoshimo | we have an EXACT rangecheck for raids these days, i think this is enough |
| 20:29.27 | Shefki | yoshimo: To be honest I'm impressed. |
| 20:29.31 | Shefki | That they didn't break that too. |
| 20:30.31 | yoshimo | im happy about it, thats the more helpful thing |
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| 20:30.46 | Shefki | I was expecting a bigger bat. |
| 20:30.54 | Shefki | And I wasn't expecting it till 4.0 |
| 20:31.26 | Grum | tbh they added the 'accurate positions' at colliseum orso? |
| 20:31.30 | Grum | they should just remove them again |
| 20:31.46 | Shefki | Grum: They were possible starting with Ulduar. |
| 20:32.01 | yoshimo | grum, every instance has cooods, so its possible to use that formula in all wotlk instances |
| 20:32.32 | *** join/#wowace sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 20:32.41 | Shefki | yoshimo: Except P2-3 of LK |
| 20:32.44 | yoshimo | they could "bug" the mapreturn values on purpose, like lanathel was the first weeks :P |
| 20:33.00 | yoshimo | yes shefki ;) |
| 20:33.22 | Shefki | yoshimo: Technically it was the room that was screwed up not the coordinates. |
| 20:34.13 | Grum | yoshimo: not really |
| 20:34.30 | Grum | every room with a proper minimap AND a worldmap has coordinates |
| 20:34.34 | Grum | and then some zones are fucked |
| 20:34.42 | Shefki | If they wanted to break it all they'd have to do is protect GetPlayerMapPosition when in an instance. |
| 20:34.53 | Grum | yeah |
| 20:36.09 | yoshimo | i only remember that the bql room didnt work , but the rest of the area, whatever it was, im not sure about exactly, was a while ago |
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| 20:41.59 | ThiefMaster | do you guys think a dps warrior should be allowed to bid on http://www.wowhead.com/item=50618 against a hunter? or should that be treated like e.g. leather where non-plate/main classes usually have priority? |
| 20:42.55 | Caleb| | yes |
| 20:45.51 | NivFreak | it depends on your guild/loot system |
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| 21:12.45 | koaschten | momg tinypic added captchas for uploading |
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| 21:19.19 | Antiarc | imgur for the win? |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#wowace Sliker (~Sliker@5ad810c7.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:19.34 | Antiarc | ThiefMaster: That ring is BIS for pretty much all physical DPS |
| 21:19.37 | *** join/#wowace maqr (~maqr@httpcraft/hax) |
| 21:19.42 | Antiarc | It's stupid to not allow someone to bid on their BIS |
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| 21:23.19 | Grum | ThiefMaster: if its BiS for the warrior, yes, else .. rather not |
| 21:23.33 | Fisker | well they'll have to change out the ring when the cataclysm patch hits |
| 21:23.35 | Fisker | :o |
| 21:23.58 | Fisker | so personally i'll not be going for anything non-plate/str melee until everyone else have |
| 21:24.34 | Silowyi | is anyone in here really good at CSS? |
| 21:24.58 | Fisker | yeah |
| 21:25.03 | Fisker | i get a lot of headshots |
| 21:26.12 | Silowyi | haha :P |
| 21:26.23 | Silowyi | cascading style sheets, Fisker, and you knew that :P |
| 21:27.33 | Grum | Silowyi: ask your question or you'll never get an answer |
| 21:27.56 | *** join/#wowace kollektiv (~kollektiv@unaffiliated/kollektiv) |
| 21:29.46 | *** join/#wowace Sliker (~Sliker@5ad810c7.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:31.01 | Silowyi | trying, with CSS, to create a 3x3 layout where the top and bottom "rows" have fixed height, and the left and right "columns" have fixed width. But it scales to fill the window. |
| 21:31.07 | Silowyi | without using tables, natch. |
| 21:31.22 | Grum | use tables! |
| 21:31.32 | Grum | tabular layout should use tables >< |
| 21:32.05 | Silowyi | sigh! |
| 21:32.30 | *** join/#wowace Silker (~Sliker@5ad81672.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:33.05 | Grum | no really, its trivial to do with tables |
| 21:33.19 | Silowyi | Yes I know :P |
| 21:33.29 | Grum | why do all 'Web 2.0' people always whine so hard that 'CSS SHOULD BE USED FOR EVERYTHING' and basicly ban tables |
| 21:33.33 | Grum | its just stupid |
| 21:33.35 | Silowyi | well the people over in #css aren't any help |
| 21:34.26 | Grum | you used the regular sources? |
| 21:35.45 | Silowyi | if you mean w3c etc... yes |
| 21:37.37 | Silowyi | ye olde' tables vs divs argument wouldn't be an argument at all if css was mature enough that it could easily do everything tables can... that's the frustrating thing as a web developer, it's like we're using kitchen knives instead of screwdrivers, cause they gave us phillips and all we have are flathead screws. |
| 21:38.26 | Silowyi | and divs work flawlessly until you want to dynamically resize. |
| 21:39.13 | *** join/#wowace Antiarc (~Antiarc@ip70-190-192-186.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:39.13 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Antiarc] by ChanServ |
| 21:39.13 | Shadowed | Tables have consistency issues |
| 21:39.26 | Grum | CSS is just shit |
| 21:39.31 | Grum | and 'consistency issues' ? |
| 21:42.43 | Grum | to be honest, any kind of html-dev work is still riddled with browser specific pain in the ass things |
| 21:42.56 | Grum | with the deprecation of IE6 it became a lot less but still its horrid |
| 21:46.07 | Silowyi | grrr |
| 21:46.13 | Silowyi | here's a "consistency" issue |
| 21:46.23 | Silowyi | both IE and FF are ignoring the cell height |
| 21:46.35 | Grum | without content, yes |
| 21:46.48 | Grum | sometimes even with :P |
| 21:47.03 | Silowyi | yes |
| 21:47.22 | Repo | 10prat-3-0: 03sylvanaar * r452 / (4 files in 2 directories): conditionally remove modules which cause errors on the ptr |
| 21:50.43 | Repo | 10prat-3-0: 03sylvanaar * r453 / (2 files in 2 directories): commit changes hg-subversion skipped =( |
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| 22:07.58 | Shefki | So Antiarc do you think HudMap pushes the line that Blizzard has drawn in the sand with AVR? |
| 22:08.42 | Odlaw | if i were blizz, i'd say yes. |
| 22:09.10 | Shefki | Odlaw: That's kinda what I was thinking. |
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| 22:10.01 | Antiarc | Shefki: I've asked for clarification. If they nix it, I'll can it. |
| 22:10.06 | Odlaw | it looked like that addon is redrawing the minimap too.. which is kinda interesting.. doesn't GetPlayerMapPosition() work for units in the raid? no need to redraw the minimap |
| 22:10.32 | Antiarc | It uses a second minimap object |
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| 22:10.46 | Antiarc | It's useful for more than raids - it can also show tracking node blips when you're flying around |
| 22:10.50 | Antiarc | Or hunter tracking stuff, etc |
| 22:10.56 | Odlaw | hmm |
| 22:11.19 | Shefki | Well I'm asking because kollektiv and I were just disucssing the AVR situation. |
| 22:11.21 | Odlaw | so you can still have minimap + that? |
| 22:11.29 | Shefki | I was writing a driver for DXE so we could drive AVR. |
| 22:11.34 | Shefki | But obviously no point in that now. |
| 22:11.53 | Shefki | He suggested HudMap, but I'd rather not lose GetPlayerMapPosition() than have that. |
| 22:12.12 | Odlaw | heheh, actually, i canablized dxe and made my own handler for avr, so i didn't have to have AVRE at the same time.. and now i know i just wasted a bunch of time :/ |
| 22:12.31 | Antiarc | Odlaw: The minimap is hidden when you have hudmap up, because due to implementation you can't have two minimaps of differing scales displayed at once |
| 22:12.41 | Odlaw | ah, didn't know that antiarc, thx |
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| 22:13.06 | Antiarc | Shefki: I'll simply say that I have contacts who can give me a thumbs up/down on it, and I've put in a request for it to be evaluated in light of the AVR cancellation. |
| 22:13.17 | Antiarc | Until I hear "no" I'll be progressing with it. |
| 22:13.56 | Shefki | Fair enough. |
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| 22:14.34 | Odlaw | hate to say it, but i don't think it'll have a chance :( |
| 22:14.53 | Odlaw | but nice addon anyway |
| 22:18.52 | Fisker | Antiarc you must continue |
| 22:18.54 | Fisker | nomatter what |
| 22:19.05 | Fisker | and Shefki it does cross the line |
| 22:19.34 | Odlaw | they might as well just kill all boss mods <cries> |
| 22:19.45 | Fisker | hoping on it Odlaw |
| 22:21.05 | Odlaw | downside of killing boss mods: bosses get dumber. <thinks back to MC> |
| 22:21.40 | Fisker | yeah exactly |
| 22:21.52 | Odlaw | i don't want boring bosses |
| 22:21.53 | Fisker | they've always stated that bosses follow the evolution of addons |
| 22:21.57 | Odlaw | i like fun bosses |
| 22:22.59 | Shefki | I think it's interesting that the newer the boss the more trivilized by gear it seems to be. |
| 22:23.11 | Shefki | Go run say ZG. |
| 22:23.20 | Odlaw | i can clear it on my pally :) |
| 22:23.27 | Nechckn | Shefki Nice post on exactly which CVars are hidden - much appreciated. |
| 22:23.32 | *** join/#wowace Sliker (~Sliker@5addc64f.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:23.44 | Shefki | Sure, but you still have to deal with the mecahnics of the fight. |
| 22:24.00 | Shefki | Odlaw: You need to stun the heals, and what not. |
| 22:24.32 | Odlaw | nah.. i just line of sight the healer and pew pew it down in ret gear |
| 22:24.34 | Shefki | Whereas a lot of the newer fights, you get to the point where the mechanics are meaningless and you can just tank and spank. |
| 22:25.21 | Shefki | LK is a good fight precisely because gear doesn't matter if you cover the entire area with a Defile. |
| 22:25.57 | Shefki | But I can't say the same for a lot of the fights in Ulduar. |
| 22:26.22 | Odlaw | i do a lot of callouts on vent, and man.. i can't do shit on lk.. too much going on for me.. gotta md the shamblings to our offtank, tranq 'em, watch out for plague and traps.. etc ungh |
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| 22:27.12 | Odlaw | lk has lots of stuff to do :) |
| 22:27.18 | Shefki | Odlaw: They've made a lot of fights complicated until you can gear up to the point that the extra damage that makes it complicated doesn't matter. |
| 22:28.08 | Shefki | Nechckn: Sure np. |
| 22:31.19 | Fisker | btw Shefki |
| 22:31.47 | Fisker | being in the area where you are getting high dps on LK to quickly breeze through P1 but not quickly enough to avoid the second horror = fail |
| 22:31.58 | Fisker | we tank the shambling horrors into phase 2 :P |
| 22:32.00 | Fisker | or close to it |
| 22:32.10 | *** join/#wowace ^Tempest (tempest@93.191.123.78) |
| 22:33.31 | Shefki | Fisker: We're obviously not to the point where the LK fight can be trivialized with gear. I also used LK as a fight that isn't easily trivialized that way. |
| 22:40.37 | Odlaw | this guy defines my sentiments exactly: "I'd like to see raiding get back to being more about reacting to what's going on and not so much trying to figure out what's going on" |
| 22:40.40 | Antiarc | Yesssssss. |
| 22:40.45 | Antiarc | I have used my auction data for my first win. |
| 22:40.54 | Antiarc | Scarlet Rubies dived in price due to an influx of supply |
| 22:40.55 | Odlaw | ? |
| 22:40.59 | Fisker | don't stop Antiarc |
| 22:41.03 | Antiarc | And my data let me grab them :D |
| 22:41.08 | Antiarc | http://wow.tachyonsix.com/auctionboss/index.php?q=Scarlet+Ruby |
| 22:41.20 | Fisker | ah Shefki wasn't that much about that |
| 22:41.33 | Fisker | just found it kinda funny how there was this kind of disadvantage before you got a huge advantage |
| 22:42.08 | Antiarc | VINDICATION |
| 22:42.41 | Fisker | btw |
| 22:42.46 | Antiarc | Rubies were 26g when I logged in |
| 22:42.49 | Antiarc | Just as my data said |
| 22:43.02 | Antiarc | And I bought them all, so I should see the graph trend up in the next half hour or so. |
| 22:43.28 | Fisker | so what did you sell them for? |
| 22:43.55 | Aeyan | I would guess he's waiting for the average price to go up |
| 22:44.04 | Fisker | wait is this right? |
| 22:44.09 | Fisker | mean price = 400? |
| 22:44.21 | Fisker | oh |
| 22:44.22 | Fisker | overall market |
| 22:44.23 | Fisker | durr |
| 22:44.53 | Fisker | man you're gonna make a bot for that Antiarc |
| 22:45.11 | Antiarc | I am transmuting them |
| 22:45.18 | Antiarc | Then I will wait and see when cardinal rubies spike |
| 22:45.23 | Antiarc | Then I will list cardinal rubies |
| 22:45.27 | Antiarc | I expect 800-900% profit |
| 22:46.08 | Fisker | i need this on EU nao |
| 22:46.29 | Fisker | though i figure when people starting using scripts to automate the AH it'll probably be fucked up |
| 22:50.08 | Fisker | so how do you feel about destroying WoW Antiarc ? |
| 22:50.39 | Antiarc | Glorious. |
| 22:50.44 | koaschten | its not the first time he is trying |
| 22:50.49 | koaschten | but every time he tried |
| 22:50.56 | koaschten | blizzard banned the addon or app ;) |
| 22:51.20 | koaschten | or disabled the interface to hook up to :D |
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| 22:52.39 | Antiarc | Next up: Writing an IM bot to ping me with price alerts. |
| 22:52.59 | koaschten | just twitter it Antiarc |
| 22:53.11 | Antiarc | nah, xmpp is easier :P |
| 22:53.16 | Antiarc | AlTHOUGH |
| 22:53.26 | koaschten | but you could #wow #cataclysm it |
| 22:53.31 | Antiarc | I could run a "HotAzerothDeals" account or something and tell people what to buy |
| 22:53.32 | koaschten | and put servername and item in it |
| 22:53.33 | Antiarc | That would be amazing. |
| 22:53.36 | Fisker | naw koaschten |
| 22:53.41 | Antiarc | I could manipulate the markets like you have no idea. |
| 22:53.48 | Fisker | @Warcraft I just bought x for y and resold it for z |
| 22:53.49 | Fisker | BAM |
| 22:54.19 | arkanes | Odlaw: I'm not sure how that sentiment is different from "raiding is too hard" |
| 22:54.44 | arkanes | having only 1 thing at a time to react to is one of the things that made classic raiding relatively easy |
| 22:55.01 | Odlaw | so add in more things to react to? |
| 22:55.24 | arkanes | sure |
| 22:55.27 | koaschten | just looked at the page, is that googles new data prediction thingy Antiarc? |
| 22:55.34 | arkanes | increasing complexity is a way to increase difficulty |
| 22:55.37 | Antiarc | No, that's just google's charting API |
| 22:55.49 | Antiarc | The prediction stuff is on the plate though |
| 22:55.50 | Odlaw | yea.. i don't mind having multiple things to react to |
| 22:55.51 | Odlaw | t |
| 22:56.00 | Antiarc | Once I have enough data I'm going to see if I can train Google to tell me how to win WoW |
| 22:56.07 | Odlaw | trying to figure out who has plague sickness isn't a reaction. |
| 22:56.38 | arkanes | well part of it is addons like AVRE the increasing sophistication of bossmods |
| 22:56.42 | arkanes | *and |
| 22:57.30 | arkanes | but plague sickness in particular isn't that hard to handle, you can see it in your raid frames |
| 22:58.46 | Shefki | Fisker: I see what you mean and yeah several of the fights had behavior like that. |
| 22:58.50 | Fisker | no correlation between raid frames and the real world though |
| 22:59.19 | arkanes | you mean where you need to run to? |
| 22:59.25 | arkanes | I have that |
| 22:59.39 | Odlaw | i dont look at raid frames for sickness.. i have to squint at my monitor to see who was slightly green. |
| 23:00.08 | Shefki | I wrote an addon that sticks a mark on the person nearest the person with the plague that doesn't have the sickness. |
| 23:00.33 | Shefki | So you get the plague, you sit on it and you run it to the person with the star. |
| 23:00.35 | arkanes | we have a spot where people with the plague goes, and a person who keeps track of who has what and picks a person to run there |
| 23:00.40 | Fisker | arkanes exactly |
| 23:00.48 | Fisker | that's why i don't find AVR being that big a deal |
| 23:00.54 | arkanes | Fisker: it's not for this specific thing |
| 23:01.04 | Shefki | AVR was never that helpful on plague. |
| 23:01.10 | Fisker | why not? |
| 23:01.15 | arkanes | I mean, I can think of somet things to do with AVR |
| 23:01.17 | Fisker | it was awesome in my opinion |
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| 23:01.33 | arkanes | I was just using it as an example of the growing sophistication available in boss mods |
| 23:01.47 | arkanes | and thats why sometimes blizzard doesn't expose event information, like with malleable goo or on LK |
| 23:02.03 | arkanes | AVR makes rotface so easy it feels like cheating |
| 23:02.22 | Caleb| | actually I think its a technical shortcoming |
| 23:02.31 | Odlaw | wasn't needed on rotface.. you take 2 steps to the left / right and you are safe. |
| 23:02.43 | arkanes | Odlaw: that's incorrect |
| 23:02.48 | Caleb| | some spells having no destname in in the combatlog events because they are landing on the ground not on a player |
| 23:02.56 | arkanes | and we're not talking abotu stuff thats "needed" |
| 23:02.59 | Shefki | I doubt they're deliberately hiding events from our combat logs to make it hard to write boss mods. |
| 23:03.12 | arkanes | Caleb|: if they *wanted* you to know where the goo was landing theres lots of ways they could make that happen |
| 23:03.19 | Shefki | I suspect most of the time it's just how they decide to implement stuff doesn't end up producing events for various reasons. |
| 23:03.30 | Caleb| | what Shefki said |
| 23:03.42 | arkanes | that could be too |
| 23:03.43 | Odlaw | didn't they hide the necrotic plague on LK so the auto-follow thing would stop working? |
| 23:04.12 | Shefki | If they wanted to block boss mods from having access to more information, there would be a lot more information consistently not available. |
| 23:04.36 | Shefki | And sometimes the lack of events varies between implementations of the same fight. |
| 23:04.55 | Shefki | Heroic Valithria lacks the shout for portals. |
| 23:05.17 | Shefki | I don't think they did that to screw boss mods. |
| 23:05.26 | Shefki | Probably just forgot to impelment the shout. |
| 23:05.35 | arkanes | sure I'm not suggesting all of it is |
| 23:05.43 | arkanes | or even that it's a major concern in their mind |
| 23:06.02 | Caleb| | yeah I remember putri ptr, where it took them 2 tries to implement warning after we asked for it :D |
| 23:06.33 | Caleb| | or was it rotface heroic |
| 23:06.44 | Caleb| | one of them... |
| 23:06.52 | Shefki | Now obviously they're aware of the boss mods and what they're capable of and they do try to come up with mechanics that will be challenging in spite of the availablility of boss mods. |
| 23:07.14 | Shefki | Which is why I think they've gone so nuts with stuff that flies to you or that doesn't mark on the ground very well. |
| 23:07.44 | arkanes | well I think the lack of ground marks is intentional |
| 23:08.15 | Shefki | *nod* |
| 23:08.17 | Caleb| | yeah, just remember back when they implemented the little slider for particle density |
| 23:08.19 | arkanes | oh, I missread what you said, I imagined a *not* in there :P |
| 23:08.25 | Caleb| | so you could see spells on the ground more clearly |
| 23:08.40 | arkanes | and changing the color of void zones on sarth |
| 23:09.00 | Odlaw | I'm waiting on a slider or set of checkboxes to disable spell effects that don't affect me. |
| 23:09.19 | arkanes | ground effects overlaying one another is still a thing, like frost traps covering defile on lk |
| 23:09.25 | Odlaw | i wanna see environment spells, and spells that are interacting with me.. not the rest of my raid or group :) |
| 23:09.33 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13525764475&sid=1&pageNo=2#21 <-mindfuck |
| 23:09.35 | Odlaw | daoc and everquest had those options.. damn it.. |
| 23:09.39 | arkanes | maybe rated BGs will change it |
| 23:09.56 | arkanes | because man I really hate stealing along, seeing a frost trap or consc effect or whatever and not knowing if its friendly |
| 23:10.47 | arkanes | see, I expected that they would break AVR |
| 23:11.29 | Repo | 10prat-3-0: 03sylvanaar * r454 modules (2 files in 1 directory): |
| 23:11.31 | Repo | fixup the old button module, to sorta work. remove editbox reference from hist |
| 23:12.16 | Shefki | arkanes: They really should make player effects go under boss effects. |
| 23:12.33 | Shefki | And frankly they should make horde ground effects be different from alliance. |
| 23:12.38 | Shefki | So you can tell the difference in BGs. |
| 23:13.12 | arkanes | it'd be neat if friendly ones were ghostly translucent or something |
| 23:13.29 | arkanes | also maybe someday the ground effect of abilities will actually match their area of effect :P |
| 23:14.09 | arkanes | Fisker: I think AVR style in-world effects are better than hudmap type stuff |
| 23:14.18 | Fisker | i disagree |
| 23:14.26 | arkanes | well |
| 23:14.28 | arkanes | I fart on you |
| 23:14.30 | *** join/#wowace nuoHep (~nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 23:14.37 | Fisker | enjoys |
| 23:15.12 | Fisker | but all it takes is someone to expand on the range modules of DXE, BigWigs, etc. |
| 23:15.25 | Fisker | people says AVR "plays for them" |
| 23:15.28 | arkanes | well we always had range alerts and stuff |
| 23:15.31 | arkanes | yeah thats silly |
| 23:15.39 | Fisker | wait until someone makes a range module that just shows an arrow where you should move depending on the situation |
| 23:15.44 | arkanes | what AVR does (mostly) is add void-zone style effects to abilities that don't have them |
| 23:15.48 | Fisker | with AVR/Hudmap you still have to evaluate shit |
| 23:15.49 | arkanes | Fisker: we've had that for ages |
| 23:16.04 | Fisker | not at anywhere near the level of quality as AVR provides |
| 23:16.05 | arkanes | Fisker: I think DXE first implemented it when TOC launched, telling you which way to run on icehowl |
| 23:16.25 | Odlaw | but different people evaluate things differently and at different speeds |
| 23:16.42 | Odlaw | i process sound alerts faster than some visual alerts. |
| 23:17.49 | Fisker | i don't get why they didn't just ban the addon though |
| 23:18.11 | arkanes | addon banning doesn't actually work |
| 23:18.19 | arkanes | I don't know why they even bothered to add it, honestly |
| 23:18.25 | Fisker | true |
| 23:18.31 | Fisker | it's easy to work around |
| 23:18.39 | Fisker | but it would be pretty effective in the short run |
| 23:18.41 | arkanes | because all you need to do is rename, reformat some source files and so on, and poof unbanned AVR |
| 23:19.08 | *** join/#wowace DarkAudit (~Brian@c-98-236-74-141.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) |
| 23:20.04 | Shefki | arkanes: They added it to stop people using old broken versions of addons. |
| 23:20.31 | Shefki | arkanes: GearScore actually had it used on it. |
| 23:20.38 | arkanes | heh |
| 23:20.48 | Shefki | It lets them block addons that are creating massive customer service problems with them. |
| 23:20.52 | Shefki | s/with them/for them/ |
| 23:20.54 | arkanes | I see |
| 23:20.57 | arkanes | that does make some sense |
| 23:21.11 | Shefki | "OMG ____ isn't working right." |
| 23:21.15 | Shefki | "Uninstall your addons" |
| 23:21.18 | Shefki | "Wahhhhhhh" |
| 23:21.19 | Shefki | vs |
| 23:21.25 | Shefki | "OMG ____ isn't working right." |
| 23:21.28 | Shefki | few days later. |
| 23:21.32 | Shefki | "Ohh it's working now again." |
| 23:21.41 | Shefki | "Ohh hey ____ addon isn't loading." |
| 23:21.43 | Shefki | "Go update" |
| 23:21.46 | Shefki | "ok ty" |
| 23:22.13 | arkanes | well blizzards stance has always been that if you wont remove all your addons we dont care about your problem |
| 23:22.20 | arkanes | which is reasonable |
| 23:22.22 | Fisker | i wonder how/why Gearscore seems to lag instance servers |
| 23:22.23 | Fisker | O_o |
| 23:22.26 | Shefki | In short, they realize that their customers have the critical thinking skills of an ape. |
| 23:22.35 | arkanes | do you know why specifically gs was banned? Overuse of comms or something? |
| 23:22.46 | Fisker | you could disconnect people |
| 23:22.47 | Shefki | arkanes: It was spamming comms and disconnecting people using it. |
| 23:23.14 | Shefki | There was a fixed version for a while. |
| 23:23.17 | arkanes | I'd probably have changed the comms throttle so it dropped messages instead of disconnecting |
| 23:23.19 | Shefki | But of course peopel don't update. |
| 23:23.22 | arkanes | right |
| 23:23.36 | Shefki | So they banned the old version. |
| 23:23.48 | Shefki | New version kept working. |
| 23:23.59 | Shefki | Idiots cheer on UI & Macros forum that they banned gear score. |
| 23:24.10 | *** join/#wowace Cavisty^gerber (~Cavisty@c-98-211-122-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.13 | Shefki | Win win. |
| 23:24.18 | arkanes | heh |
| 23:24.22 | Shefki | Idiots think they won, blizzard stops people from disconnecting. |
| 23:24.31 | arkanes | I do hate me some gearscore |
| 23:24.38 | Fisker | Blizzard needs to design a subscription based comms system |
| 23:24.39 | Fisker | pl0x |
| 23:25.09 | arkanes | what would that do for us? |
| 23:25.36 | Fisker | less data sent? :P |
| 23:25.50 | arkanes | oh, you mean that kind of subscription |
| 23:25.56 | Antiarc | subscribe for messages |
| 23:26.03 | arkanes | yeah, in a way the old school chat channel method was better |
| 23:26.07 | Antiarc | Not "buy comms traffic quota, only $10.99 in the Blizzard Store!" |
| 23:26.11 | Fisker | xD |
| 23:26.15 | arkanes | Antiarc: I thought he meant subscription in the client API |
| 23:26.19 | koaschten | You now can purchase stacks of api calls in the Blizzard Online Stsore. |
| 23:26.23 | koaschten | damn Antiarc |
| 23:26.24 | arkanes | eh |
| 23:26.28 | Shefki | Antiarc: That would be awesome. |
| 23:26.38 | Shefki | Antiarc: All the idiots wouldn't buy it and I'd stop hearing the whining about comms. |
| 23:26.50 | Fisker | but the weird thing is that it seems gearscore can cause lag |
| 23:26.53 | Fisker | which is messed up |
| 23:27.00 | Shefki | Fisker: I don't see how. |
| 23:27.01 | Fisker | and doesn't make sense :o |
| 23:27.05 | Antiarc | People will whine about anything. The best approach is to simply not care unless they are paying you, and then you care very much. :P |
| 23:27.06 | Shefki | But I've never installed it. |
| 23:27.09 | Fisker | yeah Shefki i didn't believe it either |
| 23:27.14 | Fisker | you don't even need it installed |
| 23:27.17 | arkanes | GS does a bunch of work every time you mouse over anyone |
| 23:27.30 | Fisker | Was in a raid where we were lagging a lot on gunboat |
| 23:27.37 | Fisker | everyone was told to disable GS and they did |
| 23:27.40 | Fisker | then it worked fine |
| 23:27.46 | Shefki | Fisker: Could be coincidence. |
| 23:27.48 | Antiarc | One data point :P |
| 23:27.55 | Fisker | nah it worked several weeks in a row |
| 23:27.56 | Antiarc | Lag also often clears up after a period |
| 23:27.58 | arkanes | Fisker: maybe the fact that everyone relogged had more to do with it |
| 23:28.00 | Shefki | In the time it takes for peopel to unload GS it could have resolved itself. |
| 23:28.05 | Fisker | maybe |
| 23:28.14 | Antiarc | Think about this critically - |
| 23:28.19 | Antiarc | Addon comms are throttled |
| 23:28.26 | arkanes | if GS could lag you |
| 23:28.30 | arkanes | dal would always be crashed |
| 23:28.31 | Antiarc | Even at full throttle you aren't going to saturate your upstream |
| 23:28.33 | Fisker | But the fun thing was that it was another guild (i'm thinking they have a lot of GS guild comm) |
| 23:28.34 | Shefki | arkanes: You don't have to log to unload an addon. |
| 23:28.42 | Fisker | and their raids always lagged like i experienced |
| 23:28.43 | Antiarc | Saturated upstream is what causes lag from a client's end |
| 23:28.43 | arkanes | Shefki: yes but most people don't know that and relog anyway |
| 23:28.48 | Fisker | so they solved it by removing GS |
| 23:28.53 | Antiarc | Also |
| 23:29.00 | Antiarc | ThreatLib was a chatty sumbitch |
| 23:29.01 | Fisker | then i was in a pug with a few of their members and we experienced the exact same thing, again disabling GS = fixed |
| 23:29.02 | Fisker | O_o |
| 23:29.07 | Antiarc | But it didn't cause phantom lag like GS supposedly does |
| 23:29.09 | arkanes | people have silly superstitions about lag |
| 23:29.17 | Shefki | Antiarc: I hated you in Hyjal. /end discussion. :P |
| 23:29.22 | arkanes | healcomm is way more chatty than GS |
| 23:29.27 | arkanes | especially in a raid |
| 23:29.31 | Fisker | yeah |
| 23:29.36 | *** join/#wowace Cavisty^gerber (~Cavisty@c-98-211-122-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.37 | Antiarc | There was ONE time when the comms were messed up in Hyjal :P |
| 23:29.45 | arkanes | my guild makes people turn off rankwatch |
| 23:29.50 | Antiarc | rankwatch is amazing |
| 23:29.57 | arkanes | yes, but they thing it's spammy or something |
| 23:30.01 | Antiarc | If you yell at people to turn it off you're doing it wrong |
| 23:30.04 | Shefki | Antiarc: I don't care, I still hated you. :P |
| 23:30.09 | arkanes | despite the fact that it does no comms at all unless there's a detection |
| 23:30.23 | Fisker | anyway i've always said that it couldn't be addons |
| 23:30.25 | Shefki | Antiarc: Rankwatch is retarded because people run old versions that don't know about all the exceptions. |
| 23:30.29 | arkanes | I believe it's dated back to version 0.1, which was proccing on some legit uses of low-rank spells |
| 23:30.30 | Antiarc | People are dumb about things they don't understand |
| 23:30.31 | Fisker | But then i experienced it myself and i was convinced :P |
| 23:30.46 | arkanes | so now the RL uses rank 1 corruption at the start of the raid and tells everyone to turn it off |
| 23:30.48 | Antiarc | "OMG MY ADDON IS USING 4MB OF RAM IT'S MAKING ME LAG" |
| 23:31.01 | *** join/#wowace MysticalOS (~Myst@h48.119.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 23:31.30 | MysticalOS | figures my internet is running like utter crap, i dc every 5-10 min and can't get logs :( is anyone going to be doing ruby testing on US realms? |
| 23:31.40 | arkanes | of course people call lots of things "lag" too |
| 23:31.58 | arkanes | including the always popular "I was spacing out, must have been lag" |
| 23:32.07 | MysticalOS | i tanked heroic lady deathwhisper at 800ms, i don't ever wanna hear lag as an excuse :) |
| 23:32.20 | Fisker | Antiarc you should've been there :P |
| 23:32.26 | Fisker | You would've been convinced too imo |
| 23:32.41 | MysticalOS | granted the enhance shamen helped me tank adds, but he's just that good :) |
| 23:32.54 | Antiarc | If it's lag for everyone it's likely server lag which is caused by server load or network congestion |
| 23:32.56 | arkanes | I can see some instances where something like GS might cause a problem |
| 23:33.06 | Shefki | "Yo dude you should have been there, thse shrooms made me think the sky was purple." |
| 23:33.07 | Antiarc | and I'll promise that comms, no matter how chatty, are not more chatty than position updates and the like |
| 23:33.12 | arkanes | like if the instance server is already borderline, and GS is busy inspecting everything you mouse over |
| 23:33.20 | Fisker | Antiarc i totally agree |
| 23:33.34 | MysticalOS | ICC on a tuesday wehn marrowgar is the weekly |
| 23:33.35 | Fisker | There's no way that addon comms should lag the server (unless your connection is horrible) |
| 23:33.35 | Antiarc | In 3.3 they changed all those spammy buffs to auras |
| 23:33.39 | MysticalOS | 4 wipes to gunship |
| 23:33.42 | MysticalOS | from lag |
| 23:33.44 | Antiarc | So I'm sure that cleaned up a lot of margin |
| 23:33.47 | arkanes | Antiarc: that helped my 25 man experience quite a bit |
| 23:33.55 | Antiarc | I suspect it helped the servers more |
| 23:34.11 | arkanes | oh yes |
| 23:34.25 | MysticalOS | yeah 3.3.3 greatly reduced server lag |
| 23:34.29 | Shefki | I think I remember seeing someone that figured that trade chat comms were more spamming than addons in a raid. |
| 23:34.42 | MysticalOS | tuesdays were completely unplayable every week unitl 3.3.3, now tuesdays are only bad if marrowgar is weekly |
| 23:34.48 | Shefki | I should write tradealyzer |
| 23:34.59 | Shefki | Tells you how much traffic trade chat has crated. |
| 23:35.07 | Fisker | But really after experiencing it myself i simply can't suggest anything else than "must be coincidence" which is just insanely unlikely given that they didn't affect our raids (We don't really want people to act like GS twats, so no GS for joo) and then it affected a raid with lots of GS users |
| 23:35.57 | MysticalOS | i think it's pointless for GS to use comm traffic in a raid anyways, gulid sure, raid, you are already in the raid with the people, why do you need to sync what someoen standing next to you has scanned when you're standing next to the person they scanned and scanned them too |
| 23:36.30 | MysticalOS | definitely pointless to sync raid channel in battlegrounds |
| 23:36.33 | arkanes | I should write a hook that disables guild-level comms when I'm i combat |
| 23:36.36 | Shefki | MysticalOS: I don't think it does that. |
| 23:36.45 | Shefki | I thought it only synced with guild people now. |
| 23:36.48 | arkanes | or maybe when I'm raiding in general |
| 23:37.12 | Odlaw | i think the idea was that gs would ask people in raid about someone not in raid..so you could determine if you wanted to invite them |
| 23:37.17 | MysticalOS | it does raid still in the code, people on forums have actualy made their own alterations to that behavior, it also causes "not in raid" messages in battlegrounds since it tries to sync raid in them |
| 23:37.26 | Fisker | speaking of traffic |
| 23:37.35 | Fisker | someone said that Blizzard might have banned AVR because of the traffic |
| 23:37.36 | Fisker | lolwut? |
| 23:37.40 | arkanes | I need to figure out why zomgbuffs is so busted commwise too, and fix it |
| 23:37.45 | arkanes | Fisker: lots of people are stupid |
| 23:37.57 | Fisker | haven't zeksie fixed it yet? ;( |
| 23:37.57 | Repo | 10prat-3-0: 03sylvanaar * r455 modules/OriginalButtons.lua: fix error on live refering to frame from the ptr |
| 23:38.04 | arkanes | nope |
| 23:38.06 | Fisker | Just continue Blessed |
| 23:38.12 | Fisker | atleast until it becomes irrelevant in Cataclysm |
| 23:38.14 | arkanes | I dont want blessed, I want zomg |
| 23:38.26 | arkanes | zomgs PP integration is borked |
| 23:38.41 | Fisker | Blessed is awesome |
| 23:38.42 | arkanes | and it somehow gets stuck in a state loop where it's broadcasting assignments every couple seconds forever |
| 23:38.49 | Fisker | just needs customizable layouts |
| 23:38.58 | arkanes | I use zomg for more than just blessings though |
| 23:39.36 | Fisker | Blessed -> Buffed |
| 23:39.39 | Fisker | problem solved |
| 23:39.51 | Fisker | chains arkanes to the chair and gives him the wowprogramming book |
| 23:39.54 | Fisker | first edition |
| 23:39.59 | Fisker | actually |
| 23:40.03 | arkanes | I know how to write addons :P |
| 23:40.04 | Fisker | make that "Hacking WoW" |
| 23:40.11 | Fisker | don't get pwnt arkanes |
| 23:40.37 | Fisker | man you must be disappointed when you think you get this 1337 hax0r book and it's just some addon crap you don't understand |
| 23:40.38 | Fisker | :P |
| 23:40.52 | arkanes | is it really named hacking wow? |
| 23:41.03 | arkanes | that seems almost... intentionally misleading |
| 23:41.11 | Fisker | yeah |
| 23:41.19 | Fisker | jnwhiteh didn't really like it either i think |
| 23:41.29 | Fisker | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5197unaIA8L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg |
| 23:41.42 | arkanes | oh wow |
| 23:41.45 | Shefki | It's mostly just about how to use addons, very little about actual "hacking" |
| 23:41.48 | arkanes | I thought you were lying |
| 23:41.55 | arkanes | you know, like usual |
| 23:42.14 | Fisker | i never lie |
| 23:46.06 | Fisker | i'm sorry arkanes did you die from all the laughter? |
| 23:46.13 | vhaarr | "Cracking WoW" would be misleading, "Hacking WoW" is not. |
| 23:46.29 | vhaarr | just because the media think "hacking" is a bad thing doesn't make it so |
| 23:46.31 | Fisker | in during hacking vs. programming argument |
| 23:46.51 | Ac-town | it depends on how you define "hacking" |
| 23:47.03 | vhaarr | nah, there is a definition of it, older than most of us |
| 23:47.09 | Fisker | Anyway vhaarr i'm sure that their marketing agency would be able to know what their book would be perceived as |
| 23:47.29 | vhaarr | percieved by the people author doesn't give a shit about, is my guess |
| 23:47.37 | vhaarr | he probably targets the audience that knows what it means |
| 23:47.49 | Ac-town | vhaarr: thats what im saying, hacking as code hacks and the like |
| 23:47.53 | Fisker | i don't think i made it into a caring contest :) |
| 23:48.18 | Fisker | infact i was describing the exact situation where some guy thinks it's some kind of cheating and pays for it, only to discover that it isn't |
| 23:48.22 | arkanes | vhaarr: I'm familiar with the history of the term hacking, but looking at the cover it seems clearly intended to try to get cheap sales from 13 year old expoiters |
| 23:48.57 | vhaarr | now that I actually looked at it, I agree |
| 23:49.05 | vhaarr | "Don't get pwnd", wtf |
| 23:49.08 | arkanes | "don't get pwnt" is not something you put on a cover when you're trying to evoke the proud tradition of MIT hacking |
| 23:49.14 | vhaarr | indeed |
| 23:49.27 | Fisker | So arkanes, i don't lie and we agree |
| 23:49.30 | Ac-town | lol |
| 23:49.35 | Fisker | what else is in it for bizarroworld? |
| 23:49.38 | arkanes | well you weren't lying this time |
| 23:49.41 | Fisker | :P |
| 23:49.49 | arkanes | so I'm gonna go check the temperature outside |
| 23:52.04 | *** join/#wowace MysticalOS (~Myst@h191.6.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
