| 00:00.00 | *** part/#webos-internals oil (n=oil@66-189-216-38.dhcp.ykma.wa.charter.com) |
| 00:09.57 | *** join/#webos-internals jkc (n=chatzill@173-21-210-94.client.mchsi.com) |
| 00:12.39 | Decimation | rwhitby: ping |
| 00:13.18 | *** join/#webos-internals sevensoft (n=sevensof@c-24-0-220-35.hsd1.de.comcast.net) |
| 00:13.32 | rwhitby | Decimation: syn|ack |
| 00:13.55 | Decimation | rwhtiby: whats the total donation count to? :) |
| 00:15.51 | rwhitby | Decimation: I keep it up to date in my .sig on PreCentral - currently $200 |
| 00:17.13 | Decimation | ahh, didnt notice |
| 00:17.14 | Decimation | nice. |
| 00:17.39 | kesne | Hey |
| 00:17.39 | gkatsev | rwhitby: syn->syn|ack->ack? |
| 00:17.42 | kesne | New website theme |
| 00:17.44 | kesne | http://keen-studios.net/ |
| 00:18.38 | gkatsev | rwhitby: i shall have to remember that |
| 00:21.20 | acydlord | I got an e-book copy of the WebOS book :) |
| 00:22.58 | *** join/#webos-internals alkos333 (n=alkos333@c-98-227-217-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.03 | Rick_home | acydlord: make certain to check the on-line errata pages. |
| 00:25.07 | Rick_home | there are a lot of them |
| 00:25.25 | acydlord | Rick_home, will do |
| 00:34.48 | *** join/#webos-internals NoahBody (n=sniper@71.21.105.104) |
| 00:37.29 | destinal-sleep | gkatsev: at least he didn't reply RST |
| 00:37.33 | *** join/#webos-internals corq (n=corq@140.150.121.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:46.34 | JackieRipper | so I just reimaged my phone with the doctor. Is there anything I can alpha or beta test? |
| 00:53.47 | *** join/#webos-internals spotter (n=spotter@user-12ld0m6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:53.54 | spotter | anyone figure out the out of space errors? |
| 00:54.06 | spotter | it seems to be some artificial limit of the app catalog as preware doesn't see it |
| 01:03.06 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:04.52 | *** join/#webos-internals GreedyB (n=blah@c-76-104-101-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 01:16.18 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@76.23.159.24) |
| 01:18.04 | *** join/#webos-internals Decimation_ (n=Decimati@24.192.160.56) |
| 01:19.14 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: optware bootstrap and dropbear/openssh in preware |
| 01:19.22 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: all without linux command line access |
| 01:19.49 | rwhitby | spotter: it's a hard-coded limit of some sort in the LunaSysMgr Palm proprietary binary |
| 01:20.01 | JackieRipper | I just installed preware with WebOS Quick Install |
| 01:20.19 | spotter | rwhitby, but what's the limit |
| 01:20.23 | spotter | size? |
| 01:20.27 | spotter | amount of apps? |
| 01:20.35 | rwhitby | spotter: both it seems |
| 01:20.41 | tmzt | the full protocol is in the windows code now? |
| 01:20.43 | spotter | and why would palm be so retarded to even do that? |
| 01:20.48 | rwhitby | haven't found the exact number in the binary though |
| 01:20.52 | tmzt | so ssh won't be required? |
| 01:20.55 | spotter | palm has made some braind dead decisions |
| 01:21.20 | JackieRipper | for the first time. I had always used the CLI before. rwhitby: so I should be able to just use preware to install optware and dropbear? |
| 01:21.32 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: yes |
| 01:21.37 | kesne | is oil here? |
| 01:21.46 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: install the terminal first, so you can watch what happens |
| 01:21.51 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: I'll give it a shot |
| 01:21.54 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano1 (n=christef@c-76-23-159-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:22.14 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: preware dropbear/openssh is standard port 22 keys only on wifi only |
| 01:22.27 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: you know how to create a key and use it? |
| 01:22.34 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: yes |
| 01:22.49 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: why was 222 used to begin with? |
| 01:23.49 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: just in case palm added ssh on 22 themselves, and also as just another layer of defence against script kiddies knocking on port 22 with passwords |
| 01:23.49 | bpadalino | to throw the hackers off the trail |
| 01:24.57 | JackieRipper | ahh |
| 01:25.08 | JackieRipper | security through obscurity |
| 01:25.16 | JackieRipper | I've never been a big fan |
| 01:25.24 | rwhitby | not on it's own, correct. |
| 01:25.44 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: so terminal is installed... next optware? |
| 01:26.26 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: yep. then be ready in terminal to check some stuff out. |
| 01:26.40 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: and you know you to get to the IPKG Log in Preware, right? |
| 01:27.01 | JackieRipper | term is open... no, I'm not familiar with the preware log |
| 01:27.21 | rwhitby | after you install a package, click the OK and then check the menu for IPKG Log |
| 01:27.43 | rwhitby | be ready to screenshot that if there are errors. |
| 01:28.18 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: yours is the first on-Pre test of all this. |
| 01:28.35 | JackieRipper | cool |
| 01:29.16 | JackieRipper | installing optware bootstrap now |
| 01:29.43 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: check for /etc/profile.d/org.webosinternals.optware and /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware |
| 01:29.58 | rwhitby | and do initctl status org.webosinternals.optware |
| 01:31.46 | JackieRipper | /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware is there, but /etc/profile.d is missing |
| 01:32.09 | JackieRipper | The directory is missing |
| 01:32.10 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: does IPKG Log identify the symlink error? |
| 01:32.22 | rwhitby | yeah, forgot to create it. does ipkg log spot it? |
| 01:32.24 | *** join/#webos-internals AZero (n=user@76-193-146-161.lightspeed.kscymo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:33.23 | JackieRipper | ln: /etc/profile.d/org.webosinternals.optware: No such file or directory |
| 01:33.58 | JackieRipper | ^^ That's the last line before "Completed" |
| 01:34.44 | kesne | Finally... ugh, I hate working |
| 01:35.21 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: excellent. Remove optware and I'll have a new version for you soon. |
| 01:35.57 | JackieRipper | cool |
| 01:37.27 | JackieRipper | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:38.12 | rwhitby | yep |
| 01:38.25 | rwhitby | any errors in the ipkg log on remove? |
| 01:38.48 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: optware 0.0.6 is now in the feed. |
| 01:39.08 | rwhitby | we're looking for a clean install this time |
| 01:39.25 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: before you reinstall can you check that /opt is not mounted? |
| 01:41.29 | JackieRipper | it is not |
| 01:41.48 | rwhitby | good |
| 01:41.58 | JackieRipper | I should restart preware, correct? So it refreshes its feeds? |
| 01:42.08 | rwhitby | just refresh the feeds in the menu item |
| 01:42.14 | JackieRipper | ahh |
| 01:42.45 | JackieRipper | done... installing optware |
| 01:43.19 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: after you have installed optware, please reopen terminal and check that the $PATH includes /opt/... |
| 01:44.29 | JackieRipper | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:44.54 | JackieRipper | having :: in the PATH doesn't affect anything, does iT? |
| 01:46.00 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: there is no entry for /opt in fstab |
| 01:46.16 | JackieRipper | which will pose a problem, I assume |
| 01:47.38 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@12.157.56.194) |
| 01:47.47 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: nope, it's done in the upstart script |
| 01:48.03 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: where is :: in the path? |
| 01:48.46 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: after optware is installed, can you reboot and double check that /opt is mounted and the path is correct? |
| 01:51.58 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: my PATH is now /usr/local/bin:.......:/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin |
| 01:52.25 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: that is, there are two colons between the old, standard path and the opt additions |
| 01:52.31 | JackieRipper | I think no big deal |
| 01:52.47 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: seems that the Pre's path has a : on the end for some reason |
| 01:52.54 | JackieRipper | right |
| 01:53.12 | rwhitby | we can choose what to do with that later, since the profile script can be easily updated and runs on every shell |
| 01:53.21 | JackieRipper | a simple tr -s ':' will fix it... but I doubt it needs fixing, really |
| 01:53.40 | JackieRipper | I'm rebooting now |
| 01:55.33 | JackieRipper | any reason the package service has its own icon? Does it do anything? |
| 01:56.13 | JackieRipper | seems to have disappeared... odd |
| 01:56.26 | rwhitby | yep, it disappears on reboot. |
| 01:56.30 | rwhitby | some bug in webos |
| 01:56.41 | rwhitby | since we set visible:false |
| 01:56.51 | JackieRipper | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:57.10 | rwhitby | if you click on it, if just gives you a soothing message to ignore it until the next reboot. |
| 01:57.18 | JackieRipper | ahh |
| 01:59.04 | JackieRipper | next to test is dropbear? |
| 01:59.24 | rwhitby | your choice, dropbear or openssh |
| 01:59.50 | JackieRipper | cab I do both? Use dropbear as a server and openssh as a client? |
| 01:59.54 | rwhitby | yes |
| 02:00.13 | rwhitby | I fixed update-alternatives support last night in ipkgservice 0.8.8 |
| 02:00.31 | rwhitby | (we weren't passing the required env vars when we ran the postinst) |
| 02:00.59 | JackieRipper | does it matter which I install first? |
| 02:01.11 | JackieRipper | I'd rather not have both sshds fighting |
| 02:05.56 | *** join/#webos-internals Max (n=Max@173-110-136-138.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 02:06.02 | rwhitby | hmm - try dropbear first. |
| 02:06.15 | JackieRipper | ok, it's installed |
| 02:06.42 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: might get a respawn storm at the moment if both are installed - I need to look at that. |
| 02:06.49 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: so just install one for now. |
| 02:07.58 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: dropbear is installed... will I need to use terminal to create a user and/or keys? |
| 02:09.51 | JackieRipper | dropbear is running |
| 02:10.16 | tmzt | are upstart events and dependencies used? |
| 02:11.31 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: you can use terminal to put a key in /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys |
| 02:16.00 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: Permission denied (publickey). |
| 02:16.10 | JackieRipper | does dropbear support dsa? |
| 02:18.27 | *** join/#webos-internals oil (n=oil@66-189-216-38.dhcp.ykma.wa.charter.com) |
| 02:18.27 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v oil] by ChanServ |
| 02:22.23 | *** join/#webos-internals rwhitby` (n=rwhitby@au1.astc-design.com) |
| 02:23.01 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v rwhitby] by ChanServ |
| 02:23.05 | gkatsev | no |
| 02:23.58 | rwhitby | gkatsev: on what basis do you say that? |
| 02:24.44 | rwhitby | my understanding is it supports rsa and dss |
| 02:24.54 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: tried both |
| 02:24.59 | JackieRipper | checking perms now |
| 02:25.12 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: just what I was going to suggest next :-) |
| 02:25.50 | JackieRipper | root's home is 755.. which should be fine, right? |
| 02:25.59 | rwhitby | yep |
| 02:26.11 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: anything in /var/log/messages ? |
| 02:27.44 | JackieRipper | user root has blank password, rejected |
| 02:27.47 | JackieRipper | heh |
| 02:29.05 | rwhitby | ah, good. |
| 02:29.27 | gkatsev | rwhitby: never mind misunderstood context and question |
| 02:29.46 | JackieRipper | mounted / rw, ran passwd, mounted / ro, and I can get in |
| 02:29.57 | destinal | rwhitby: maybe just set a random root password on install |
| 02:30.21 | destinal | but then if anyone uses usbnet and ssh as root, that's bad, nevermind |
| 02:30.30 | JackieRipper | destinal: that's a good idea. The user can always reset it manually if desired |
| 02:30.36 | destinal | true, they have the key |
| 02:31.24 | rwhitby | destinal: they can just get in via terminal and re-run passwd |
| 02:31.33 | destinal | rwhitby: sure |
| 02:31.37 | JackieRipper | the start script for dropbear disabled password logins as it stands |
| 02:31.44 | destinal | rwhitby: I wonder what happens if you just set root password to * |
| 02:31.49 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: yep, intentionally |
| 02:31.58 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: and rightly so :) |
| 02:32.17 | rwhitby | destinal: JackieRipper can try it :-) |
| 02:32.27 | destinal | err I mean in /etc/passwd |
| 02:32.33 | rwhitby | yep |
| 02:32.45 | JackieRipper | rwhitby, destinal: I think setting root's password to a random value is probably a good thing, but it may break novaterm |
| 02:32.54 | destinal | JackieRipper: it doesn't break novaterm |
| 02:33.16 | JackieRipper | novaterm won't ask for the password if it's set? |
| 02:33.28 | destinal | no, novacom daemon on the device cares nothing about root passwords |
| 02:33.38 | JackieRipper | ok |
| 02:33.45 | Decimation_ | anyone in here know php? |
| 02:34.03 | destinal | Decimation_: I know enough to avoid it like the plague :) |
| 02:34.09 | JackieRipper | I know from experience it cares about root's shell, so I wasn't sure how much of the passwd entry it cared about |
| 02:34.51 | rwhitby | snapshots the emulator and tries * in /etc/passwd for root |
| 02:35.17 | rwhitby | does lvm support snapshotting? |
| 02:36.01 | JackieRipper | setting it to * works |
| 02:36.09 | JackieRipper | on the phone |
| 02:36.28 | JackieRipper | root:*:0:0:root:/home/root:/bin/sh |
| 02:36.39 | JackieRipper | brb - cigarette break |
| 02:36.58 | rwhitby | destinal: Terminal seems to want to login if root passwd is * |
| 02:37.13 | rwhitby | so it asks for a username and passwd and fails to log in |
| 02:39.49 | rwhitby | destinal: so Terminal doesn't like a disabled root password. |
| 02:40.22 | Decimation | http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/slippers03.jpg |
| 02:41.06 | oil | lol |
| 02:41.31 | Decimation | so weird. |
| 02:41.38 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: if the password is set, will it ask? |
| 02:42.57 | *** join/#webos-internals Guest25409 (n=Max@c-67-173-9-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:43.04 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: if a password is empty, or set, it does not ask. |
| 02:43.05 | JackieRipper | answered my own question: no, it doesn't ask |
| 02:43.09 | JackieRipper | cool |
| 02:43.27 | rwhitby | so random password looks like the only way to go |
| 02:43.36 | rwhitby | time to package pwgen ... |
| 02:45.13 | JackieRipper | I actually miss the login in the terminal |
| 02:45.45 | JackieRipper | having it start a root shell without authentication.... not sure I like it |
| 02:46.41 | *** join/#webos-internals PorkchopExpress (n=no@76-218-108-14.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:48.29 | *** join/#webos-internals Hyperian (i=deathbli@c-98-207-217-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:48.43 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: org.webosinternals.pwgen is now in the public feeds |
| 02:48.52 | rwhitby | 5 minutes exactly to package and release it |
| 02:49.41 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: does preware handle prerequisites yet? |
| 02:49.52 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: oil is working on it right now |
| 02:50.03 | JackieRipper | oil: awesome |
| 02:50.13 | rwhitby | http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=optware/pwgen/Makefile is all I needed to write to package pwgen |
| 02:51.33 | *** join/#webos-internals doodums (n=thadood@75.64.178.167) |
| 02:51.48 | rwhitby | (since it was already in optware) |
| 02:52.13 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: ok, your set for testing dropbear now? |
| 02:52.22 | rwhitby | s/your/you're/ |
| 02:52.31 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: depends... |
| 02:53.12 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: just need to verify the testing process: blank root's password, uninstall dropbear, install pwgen, install dropbear |
| 02:53.24 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: don't try and install openssh as well yet, but feed free to test removing dropbear, making sure the daemon is gone, and installing openssh |
| 02:54.17 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: nope, install dropbear, install pwgen, set root's password manually choosing one from pwgen (dropbear postinst will eventually do that, or perhaps we should change it on every boot?) |
| 02:55.03 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: I would not change it on every boot, as the user may want to set it to a known value at some point |
| 02:55.17 | rwhitby | pwgen -s -1 64 |
| 02:55.23 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: there's no reason for it now, but we may well discover something in the future |
| 02:55.35 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: agreed |
| 02:55.38 | destinal | rwhitby: I would also grep '^root::' || pwgen etc |
| 02:55.48 | destinal | only randomly generate if it's null |
| 02:55.56 | rwhitby | destinal: agreed |
| 02:56.15 | acydlord | is apg ported in optware? |
| 02:56.18 | rwhitby | is 64 random characters strong enough? |
| 02:56.31 | bpadalino | sounds excessive |
| 02:56.46 | rwhitby | acydlord: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make |
| 02:56.54 | rwhitby | bpadalino: it should never need to be typed |
| 02:57.47 | bpadalino | still sounds excessive |
| 02:57.50 | JackieRipper | destinal, rather than checking for null, should we check for != 35 characters? |
| 02:58.18 | acydlord | sad, no apg |
| 02:58.27 | rwhitby | acydlord: you can change that ... |
| 02:58.30 | acydlord | but if i recall apg was ported to armel for maemo |
| 02:58.33 | rwhitby | bbiab - you guys figure out the appropriate security protocol and let me know |
| 02:58.40 | acydlord | rwhitby, true |
| 03:00.10 | JackieRipper | At present, it really doesn't matter how strong the password is. Remote logins using passwords are disabled, and local logins require no passwords. |
| 03:06.24 | jkc | rwhitby: how much more do you need for a pre? |
| 03:10.50 | Decimation | rwhitby: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html - 200, could be yours as of now!~ |
| 03:11.09 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: dropbear uninstalled cleanly |
| 03:12.20 | oil | the transition from no flags to flags will be interesting |
| 03:12.40 | JackieRipper | openssh did not start on install |
| 03:12.44 | JackieRipper | sshd, rather |
| 03:15.13 | tmzt | 21:36 < tmzt> yeah, I'm wondering why we couldn't split the service doing phone from the one doing ui |
| 03:15.16 | tmzt | 21:36 < tmzt> we should discuss that in #webos-internals though |
| 03:17.39 | bpadalino | tmzt, they are separated - the jvm provides telephony services .. and can crash without causing the UI to crash at all |
| 03:18.01 | tmzt | so the ui could be shut down and phone calls handled over dbus? |
| 03:18.13 | tmzt | mickeyl: still here? |
| 03:19.14 | *** join/#webos-internals TFGBD (n=gar@98.225.178.26) |
| 03:19.28 | bpadalino | should be possible, yes |
| 03:19.49 | tmzt | by jvm you mean it's java bytecode? |
| 03:19.52 | tmzt | the ril is |
| 03:20.15 | bpadalino | ril ? |
| 03:20.25 | tmzt | radio interface layer |
| 03:20.52 | bpadalino | yeah, Luna only accesses the functionality that is exposed by the java interface and running via it's own upstart script .. |
| 03:21.12 | tmzt | right, but bytecode or native through jni? |
| 03:21.19 | tmzt | this gets more interesting then |
| 03:22.21 | bpadalino | there is a native application which i believe exposes functionality to dbus which the java service/adapter uses to expose onto dbus as well ... but Luna only gets access through the java interface |
| 03:23.29 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@66.60.188.8) |
| 03:24.22 | *** join/#webos-internals eno (n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno) |
| 03:24.22 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v eno] by ChanServ |
| 03:24.55 | tmzt | can somebody paste qdbus or other dump of the dbus services? |
| 03:24.55 | tmzt | or are these currently documentsed in wiki? |
| 03:25.57 | *** join/#webos-internals Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@50.118-226-89.dsl.completel.net) |
| 03:26.15 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: a few bugs to report, sadly. The openssh daemon does not start after install, starting it manually complains about being unable to load host keys "no host keys available -- exiting". The ssh client segfaults. When the install/uninstall is complete, the notification says, "Optware [Install|Removal] Completed" - it should say, "OpenSSH [Install|Removal] Completed" |
| 03:28.16 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: thanks - the ssh client one is the only one I'm concerned about - the last one is actually how it should work "Optware" is the package type. |
| 03:29.10 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: The description of openssh in preware does claim the daemon will work... |
| 03:29.32 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: it ran at least on the emulator |
| 03:30.34 | JackieRipper | I'll uninstall and install again, so I can check the log |
| 03:30.44 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: regarding password strength - the answer is more about avoiding an Engadget story "too weak password set on Pre" rather than current technical requirements. |
| 03:32.08 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: agreed. Personally, I would like to see a completely random password, including the use of symbols, set by the *ssh post-install scripts |
| 03:32.24 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: pwgen should do that |
| 03:32.25 | JackieRipper | The user can always change it later, and never needs to know the value. |
| 03:33.05 | rwhitby | and I agree the post-install scripts will do that if the user has not modified the root password already (and none of our previous instructions have said to do that as far a I remember) |
| 03:33.33 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: I'm not familiar with pwgen. Does it actually update /etc/passwd? |
| 03:33.33 | rwhitby | no |
| 03:33.46 | rwhitby | just prints the password - will need to backtick it in sed |
| 03:34.38 | JackieRipper | is there a way to feed passwd a string from stdin? |
| 03:34.41 | tmzt | $() |
| 03:35.09 | JackieRipper | We may have to pass it through md5 and edit /etc/passwd manually |
| 03:36.33 | rwhitby | hopes Palm fixes the busybox help in 1.2 ... |
| 03:37.01 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: there's something wrong with the openssh's postinstall script. There are unprintable characters and a directory named ( |
| 03:37.06 | JackieRipper | I'll pastebin it |
| 03:38.53 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: looks ok in the autobuilder area |
| 03:40.08 | rwhitby | and looks fine in an unpacked version of the ipkg from the feed |
| 03:40.36 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 03:40.47 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m6e37c0d2 |
| 03:41.08 | JackieRipper | ".pub and (.pub seem like bad paths to me |
| 03:41.25 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: what's in /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.openssh.postinst ? |
| 03:42.20 | jkc | rtwhitby: I may have missed it- How much more to you need for the fund in order to get a pre? (sorry!) |
| 03:42.52 | rwhitby | open question: what's the best technical (i.e. not for binz, but for reading real technical discussion) usenet reader on macosx? |
| 03:43.44 | rwhitby | jkc: depends on the cost of the Pre and shipping - my .sig on PreCentral always has the latest figure, which is currently $200 |
| 03:44.11 | lmorchard | rwhitby: I like Unison, though have occasionally dropped back to tin in a shell |
| 03:44.33 | tlp | slrn is pretty decent |
| 03:45.18 | tlp | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Slrn.png |
| 03:45.28 | bpadalino | unison is pretty good .. but not free |
| 03:45.50 | bpadalino | http://www.panic.com/unison/ |
| 03:51.10 | *** join/#webos-internals Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@50.118-226-89.dsl.completel.net) |
| 03:55.37 | jkc | rwhitby: check your paypal. Pretty sure you are over the top now. |
| 03:58.06 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@12.157.56.221) |
| 04:00.18 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: ssh-keygen in not accepting the -f flag. The keys are being generated in the cwd |
| 04:03.15 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: and it is nameing them � �.pub |
| 04:03.17 | *** join/#webos-internals dug1 (n=Adium@24.130.185.86) |
| 04:10.04 | *** join/#webos-internals AgentSmith (n=AgentSmi@c-71-56-237-125.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:10.11 | *** part/#webos-internals ameng (n=fm@124.42.107.194) |
| 04:10.26 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng (n=fm@124.42.107.194) |
| 04:14.21 | *** part/#webos-internals Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@50.118-226-89.dsl.completel.net) |
| 04:16.17 | *** join/#webos-internals nebula1 (n=nebula@75-147-41-3-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:16.41 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: another bug report: The postinstall script for bash does "echo '/var/bin/bash' >> /etc/shells". By default, the Pre doesn't have /etc/shells, so this command creates it, but only populates it with bash, which means /bin/sh and /bin/ash are no longer valid shells. |
| 04:17.55 | jkc | rwiitby: you out there? |
| 04:18.50 | rwhitby | sorry, was offline |
| 04:19.11 | rwhitby | jkc: holey moley! |
| 04:19.29 | bpadalino | uh oh |
| 04:19.35 | bpadalino | big donation ? |
| 04:20.12 | rwhitby | um, yes. |
| 04:20.15 | rwhitby | blushes |
| 04:20.21 | bpadalino | wow |
| 04:20.47 | Eguy | woohoo |
| 04:21.08 | *** join/#webos-internals doodums (n=thadood@75.64.178.167) |
| 04:21.50 | rwhitby | jkc: are you sure? |
| 04:22.26 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: so it looks like the binaries for armv7 are borked. I'll probably need to package the libraries instead of just using the ones on the device. |
| 04:22.57 | Eguy | rwhitby: what are you going to do if/when the Pre comes out in Australia ah la GSM? |
| 04:23.13 | jkc | get er dun. |
| 04:23.30 | rwhitby | Eguy: the cdma pre will be used for finding a serial port. google my name and serial port to see my experience there :-) |
| 04:24.03 | rwhitby | Eguy: and then jtag, etc if needed. |
| 04:24.28 | bpadalino | always good to find |
| 04:24.35 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: I haven't set git up yet... This is the current postinst for bash: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m15299dd6 |
| 04:25.09 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: this is a revised script that won't break sh and ash: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m3022188 |
| 04:25.13 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: oh, that's PuffTheMagic's bash, I haven't packaged it from optware yet. |
| 04:26.11 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: ahhh |
| 04:28.09 | jkc | Thanks to you all. Keep it up. nite. |
| 04:28.29 | Eguy | aunt minnie strikes again http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202886-root-how.html |
| 04:30.02 | JackieRipper | http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/homebrew-apps/how-to-root-the-pre-20035.html#post95077 |
| 04:30.15 | JackieRipper | omg... telnet?!?!?! |
| 04:30.44 | nebula1 | ugh |
| 04:31.36 | bpadalino | before novaterm and the sdk, yeah - we used telnetd since it came on the pre .. |
| 04:32.01 | JackieRipper | and left it running, open to the world? |
| 04:32.36 | rwhitby | heh, I kept reading the date on that post as 6 Oct, and thought "atlanta knows better than that, why is he using telnet?" |
| 04:32.43 | bpadalino | heh |
| 04:33.07 | JackieRipper | How are those instructions easier than running the script? |
| 04:33.24 | bpadalino | look at the date |
| 04:33.38 | JackieRipper | 6/10 |
| 04:34.03 | JackieRipper | optware/dropbear were suggested by the, if I recall correctly |
| 04:34.33 | geist | 4 days after release |
| 04:34.37 | JackieRipper | yes |
| 04:34.43 | geist | 6/6/2009 THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL |
| 04:34.59 | JackieRipper | Wednesday |
| 04:35.02 | bpadalino | i didn't get my pre until that monday |
| 04:35.10 | bpadalino | 6 was a saturday i thought? |
| 04:35.22 | JackieRipper | right, and the 10th was Wednesday |
| 04:35.42 | bpadalino | ah yeah |
| 04:36.02 | bpadalino | so when did geist tweet that he was watching us find novaterm |
| 04:36.34 | geist | probably about then |
| 04:36.38 | JackieRipper | novaterm came way after dropbear |
| 04:36.48 | JackieRipper | or rather, we started using it |
| 04:37.35 | *** join/#webos-internals alkos333 (n=alkos333@c-98-227-217-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:37.38 | bpadalino | june 10th 3:26:36am ... not sure what timezone (guessing rwhitby's timezone?) |
| 04:37.56 | rwhitby | bpadalino: UTC I think |
| 04:38.06 | bpadalino | ah |
| 04:38.06 | geist | 6/10 never forget |
| 04:38.09 | bpadalino | hehe |
| 04:38.19 | bpadalino | geist, did you catch a movie ? |
| 04:38.26 | geist | nah, went home |
| 04:38.33 | geist | it's raining now. first time in forever |
| 04:38.39 | rwhitby | whereever it is Sep 14 04:38:09 right now, that's the timezone |
| 04:38.56 | bpadalino | GMT it sounds like |
| 04:39.03 | geist | indeed |
| 04:39.36 | *** part/#webos-internals nebula1 (n=nebula@75-147-41-3-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:40.52 | Eguy | geist: hasen't rained in LA since the big bang :P |
| 04:41.12 | geist | norcal > socal |
| 04:41.13 | bpadalino | are there fires still happening in southern california ? |
| 04:41.38 | Eguy | Don't even geist, don't even |
| 04:42.25 | rwhitby | geist: anyone who can tell us the maximum reasonable amount of data to push as a ServiceMessage over dbus in one chunk> |
| 04:43.18 | geist | no idea |
| 04:44.06 | rwhitby | 250KB seems to be too big ;-) |
| 04:44.36 | geist | yeah, probably is |
| 04:45.26 | rwhitby | I'm figuring 4K might be a nice round number. |
| 04:47.05 | rwhitby | the dbus standard says 128MB, but that's a bit much for a java VM with a 10MB heap ... |
| 04:47.47 | bpadalino | rwhitby: is 250kb what ipkgservice ends up trying to send ? |
| 04:48.19 | rwhitby | bpadalino: actually 374K lately |
| 04:48.51 | bpadalino | i see |
| 04:49.25 | geist | yeah, i have no idea how the internals of dbus works |
| 04:49.32 | geist | except it goes through a server |
| 04:49.39 | geist | dont know if it has to deliver it in one shot or anything |
| 04:49.56 | geist | see now.. novacom could handle your data |
| 04:49.58 | rwhitby | geist: we're going to change it to use subscribe and send multiple chunks |
| 04:49.59 | geist | but no |
| 04:50.27 | bpadalino | for abstracting away ipc it kind of works well it seems ... except there is some magic that has to happen for the binary data |
| 04:51.02 | bpadalino | geist, i think it's being used for fetching ipkg data and sending it up to mojo .. i don't think novacom can help out there :( |
| 04:51.04 | *** join/#webos-internals egaudet_ (n=egaudet@c-66-31-49-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:51.20 | geist | yeah, that's cause it can't handle the novacom |
| 04:51.23 | geist | it aint ready for it |
| 04:51.38 | bpadalino | hahaha, yes - absolutely |
| 04:52.25 | rwhitby | novacom access from mojo would solve quite a few problems, but there'd need to be a good security framework around it ;-) |
| 04:52.58 | bpadalino | security model for novacom seems to be fast and loose |
| 04:53.11 | rwhitby | fit for current purpose |
| 04:53.19 | bpadalino | with great power comes great responsibility |
| 04:53.24 | geist | security is for chumps |
| 04:53.47 | bpadalino | geist, do you have your root password tattoo'd on your arm? :) |
| 04:54.04 | acydlord | shart, i just had a good idea AFTER seting up my eclipse workspace |
| 04:54.21 | acydlord | i can put my eclipse workspace in dropbox so i can use the same workspace on all computers |
| 04:54.58 | bpadalino | ide's are for chumps |
| 04:55.22 | bpadalino | ... yeah it just isn't the same coming from me |
| 04:55.41 | acydlord | well i was using notepad++ before, but lost track of projects |
| 04:56.39 | bpadalino | work tomorrow :( |
| 04:57.03 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:57.35 | rwhitby | oil: ping |
| 05:03.03 | bpadalino | geist, how many other guys end up working on the kernel stuff with you? just chrisa or a couple more people ? |
| 05:03.37 | geist | probably about 10 total |
| 05:04.03 | geist | about 8 on the official kernel team |
| 05:04.24 | geist | and then a few on the product driver team (where chrisa is) |
| 05:04.50 | bpadalino | do the digital hardware engineers ever ask you for recommendations on components ? |
| 05:05.14 | geist | not as much as we'd like, but we go to schematic reviews and whatnot |
| 05:05.18 | geist | we add our input |
| 05:05.32 | geist | pre was kind of a bad example, since it was mostly designed before a lot of us started |
| 05:05.43 | geist | so it has some wonky, less than friendly sw stuff |
| 05:06.09 | geist | that's one of the places where palm is re-learning how to be integrated |
| 05:06.27 | geist | for too long it had bifurcated itself into hw and sw |
| 05:07.16 | *** join/#webos-internals AgentSmith (n=AgentSmi@c-71-56-237-125.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:07.49 | tmzt | msm is a little of both |
| 05:08.04 | geist | msm as in what? |
| 05:08.16 | tmzt | msm7k |
| 05:08.32 | geist | yeah, it's a huge pain |
| 05:08.46 | tmzt | so much of the hardware is controlled by the radio |
| 05:08.53 | bpadalino | hows qualcomm msm documentation versus ti omap ? |
| 05:09.36 | *** join/#webos-internals dug1 (n=Adium@24.130.185.86) |
| 05:09.36 | bpadalino | i imagine most of the air interface is just stock qualcomm software you throw onto their baseband processor |
| 05:10.32 | tmzt | on the msm6k probably, like in Pre |
| 05:10.46 | geist | msm7k is in practically all of the android phones up until now |
| 05:11.10 | geist | android essentially did the linux port to it, which is showing up in the last few releases of linux |
| 05:11.53 | bpadalino | did you thank your google buddies last time you saw them ? |
| 05:12.09 | geist | oh yes, absolutely |
| 05:12.15 | tmzt | so many of the android specific choices, device names etc. are in the kernel |
| 05:12.31 | freakout | speaking of the MSM7627 in the Pixi... |
| 05:12.33 | freakout | http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9895/palm-pixi-processor-full-spec-sheet/ |
| 05:12.39 | freakout | Qualcomm sent that to me the other day |
| 05:12.41 | tmzt | but the aurora tree is more generic |
| 05:12.54 | geist | freakout: nice, i didn't expect that |
| 05:12.59 | Eguy | freakout = shameless plug |
| 05:13.02 | Eguy | :P |
| 05:13.04 | freakout | lol |
| 05:13.16 | Eguy | Thanks for the info |
| 05:13.18 | freakout | geist: neither did I. They even tried to find pictures for me, but only had a generic shot |
| 05:13.19 | bpadalino | i am amazed qualcomm sent you something |
| 05:13.27 | freakout | Eguy: gotta take it where I can get it |
| 05:13.31 | freakout | :P |
| 05:13.36 | geist | yeah |
| 05:13.41 | geist | though to be fair QC is getting better |
| 05:13.46 | bpadalino | are they ? |
| 05:13.55 | geist | i think android beat them up enough that they finally realized that they have to deal with linux |
| 05:14.02 | bpadalino | i am somewhat glad LTE is winning over anything qualcomm was pushing |
| 05:14.25 | tmzt | 600MHz applications processor with floating point unit and L2 cache |
| 05:14.27 | geist | the more they dont cooperate, the more companies like android just go around them |
| 05:14.33 | geist | and then they end up not controlling anything |
| 05:14.38 | tmzt | vfp |
| 05:14.40 | geist | TI figured this out a long time ago |
| 05:14.44 | tmzt | vfp? |
| 05:15.17 | bpadalino | like i said before, i'm very curious about the pixi power numbers |
| 05:15.26 | bpadalino | and if they can get a good amount more running time out of it |
| 05:15.48 | geist | as are we. it's a good portion of what we spend our time on |
| 05:16.06 | geist | everything is measured against what power it will take, any feature has to be balanced with that, etc |
| 05:16.13 | bpadalino | power management has to be built in from the beginning ... that's for sure |
| 05:16.19 | bpadalino | the project i am on now was too quick and dirty |
| 05:16.19 | tmzt | and gpu, improved over 720x? |
| 05:16.28 | bpadalino | and our RF board is ... terrible |
| 05:16.32 | geist | tmzt: dunno, i've never worked with a 72xx |
| 05:16.42 | bpadalino | if you were given the radio in the dead of winter, you'd be glad you had a nice hand warmer |
| 05:16.43 | bpadalino | :) |
| 05:16.46 | geist | tmzt: iirc, the cpu on the 7x27 is a arm1176 |
| 05:17.05 | bpadalino | yeah, arm11 for the gpp, arm9 for the bb processor most likely .. |
| 05:17.10 | tmzt | haven't heard of that |
| 05:17.18 | geist | but it's all about the L2. putting a L2 in front of an arm will easily speed it up 3x |
| 05:17.48 | geist | that's why iphone got their big speedup with the 3gs. the cortex-a8 vs an arm11 is not that big of a win, but L2 cache versus none is huge |
| 05:18.00 | bpadalino | absolutely |
| 05:18.01 | tmzt | vfp is missing on the others |
| 05:18.15 | tmzt | and they're 1136 |
| 05:18.15 | geist | tmzt: ah, yeah that too |
| 05:18.20 | *** join/#webos-internals njk (n=kreucher@c-98-246-163-229.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 05:18.38 | geist | forgot that the other 7ks are like the only arm11s in the business without vfp |
| 05:18.49 | geist | and webkit and whatnot uses the fpu pretty hard |
| 05:18.55 | tmzt | yeah |
| 05:19.11 | tmzt | probably partog the hero problems |
| 05:19.18 | tmzt | part of |
| 05:19.23 | tmzt | is no vfp |
| 05:19.45 | geist | that's the nice thing about starting webos at this point in time. we can start on the leading edge of mobile cpus |
| 05:19.48 | geist | and not worry about older stuff |
| 05:19.56 | geist | we'll always have EABI, vfp, etc |
| 05:20.02 | bpadalino | i was very happy to see you guys using the omap3, that's for sure |
| 05:20.04 | *** join/#webos-internals ashi__colo (n=ashi@anysize.org) |
| 05:20.07 | geist | it's a much better situation than even a few years ago |
| 05:20.09 | tmzt | if the gpu is that much better |
| 05:20.31 | geist | though we will have the neon vs no neon problem |
| 05:20.43 | geist | but that's much better than fpu vs no, or dealing with pre armv6 |
| 05:20.44 | tmzt | it rally hurts on the others though it could partly be the drivers |
| 05:20.49 | tmzt | yeah |
| 05:21.25 | tmzt | but still two userlands |
| 05:21.39 | geist | yeah |
| 05:21.56 | tmzt | something ipkg doeswell though |
| 05:22.21 | tmzt | its architecture numbers |
| 05:22.30 | geist | yeah |
| 05:22.50 | freakout | yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah |
| 05:22.52 | geist | also, since 3rd parties dont write native code, two user spaces isn't a big deal |
| 05:22.53 | freakout | What if God was one of us? |
| 05:22.59 | freakout | stops singing bad songs now. |
| 05:24.33 | geist | still haven't decided what to do about thumb yet though |
| 05:24.51 | bpadalino | you were planning on using it ? |
| 05:24.51 | geist | in the past i've found thumb to be a big win, but with an L2 in front of the cpu it appears to not make much difference anymore |
| 05:24.54 | tmzt | thumb1? |
| 05:25.08 | geist | well, thumb2 is a no brainer, once the toolchain supports it |
| 05:25.20 | bpadalino | big win just due to reduces code size ? |
| 05:25.20 | geist | but still, if it doesn't make much of a difference, it's probably not worth it |
| 05:25.27 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v egaudet] by ChanServ |
| 05:25.30 | bpadalino | reduced rather |
| 05:25.31 | tmzt | but not on armv6 |
| 05:25.39 | geist | on a cache starved system, a lot of times that actually equates to higher performance |
| 05:25.55 | geist | i pushed for thumb real hard when i was at apple, and that's why iphone uses it |
| 05:26.05 | geist | ran a bunch of benchmarks and it actually ran better most of the time |
| 05:26.10 | geist | android does too |
| 05:26.18 | geist | but we really didn't have time to mess with it before getting webos out |
| 05:26.27 | tmzt | omap3 doesn't have l2? |
| 05:26.36 | geist | especially thumb2, which is poorly supported on all but the most current toolchains |
| 05:26.39 | geist | tmzt: yep, it does |
| 05:28.21 | bpadalino | so the latest code sourcery arm7 toolchain supports thumb2 ? |
| 05:28.30 | geist | yes |
| 05:28.30 | rwhitby | geist: we're a third party that writes native code, but we know how to do multiple archs. |
| 05:28.39 | tmzt | pa on msm nand or sd |
| 05:28.44 | tmzt | os |
| 05:28.59 | geist | rwhitby: well, also you can just target armv6 and be okay |
| 05:29.06 | geist | only place you'll get into trouble is neon |
| 05:29.20 | kesne | ugh |
| 05:30.02 | kesne | Why I dislike engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/is-this-palms-revamped-app-catalog/ |
| 05:30.33 | tmzt | would the root fs be on msm nand or sd |
| 05:31.03 | geist | tmzt: on pixi? |
| 05:31.12 | tmzt | if its msm nand must be jffsor yaffs |
| 05:31.16 | tmzt | yeah |
| 05:31.29 | tmzt | Ican figur it out though |
| 05:31.37 | tmzt | :) |
| 05:31.50 | geist | sd, same as pre |
| 05:32.13 | tmzt | interesting |
| 05:32.19 | freakout | kesne: how come? |
| 05:32.26 | kesne | Well |
| 05:32.32 | kesne | PreCentral covered that |
| 05:32.33 | kesne | Well |
| 05:32.45 | freakout | oh right. hey, you were the tipster weren't you? |
| 05:32.50 | tmzt | appsbl must benin flash of some kind |
| 05:32.59 | kesne | Actually, Decimation and I were |
| 05:33.03 | kesne | Yeah |
| 05:33.13 | geist | tmzt: sure, modem has its own flash |
| 05:33.23 | kesne | And Engadget grabs the photos, watermarks them and gives no mention to us or precentral |
| 05:33.44 | freakout | heh. I blogged the same story, but i did credit Precentral with it |
| 05:33.48 | rwhitby | ah, the cut-throat tech blogosphere ... |
| 05:33.53 | freakout | lol |
| 05:34.15 | rwhitby | as if any of them really matter ;-) |
| 05:34.20 | freakout | BTW kesne, not wanting to sound too desperate, but if you've ever got a hot tip and some spare time... |
| 05:34.21 | freakout | http://www.palminfocenter.com/news-tips.asp |
| 05:34.26 | tmzt | maybe threa room for a recovet image or something |
| 05:34.26 | freakout | or tim@mobileinfocenter.com |
| 05:34.30 | freakout | just saying ;) |
| 05:34.34 | tmzt | recovery |
| 05:34.46 | kesne | freakout you from Palm Infocenter? |
| 05:34.55 | freakout | nods |
| 05:35.18 | geist | we're making a very concerted effort to make our products similar for things like bootstrapping, recovery, etc |
| 05:35.30 | bpadalino | sounds like a solid plan |
| 05:35.34 | geist | i designed a lot of how that sort of stuff works on webos, and thus far it's working pretty well |
| 05:36.12 | bpadalino | good job geist |
| 05:36.45 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@173-129-59-244.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 05:37.09 | bpadalino | do you ever go to meetings with rubinstein ? |
| 05:37.09 | tmzt | if we just think of tpartition 1 stuff moving to msm nand it makes sense |
| 05:37.19 | edektor | anybody know the system fonts are stored? |
| 05:37.31 | tmzt | but that keeps the needndoe msm nand drivers in kernel |
| 05:38.09 | tmzt | and things like h1 had, mtd expaed to root user |
| 05:38.17 | tmzt | g1 |
| 05:38.21 | geist | bpadalino: no, but i have met him before |
| 05:38.26 | geist | used to work for him at apple too |
| 05:38.37 | geist | anyway, gotta go. back in a few |
| 05:39.03 | edektor | nevermind |
| 05:39.17 | tmzt | as opposed to the clean block sd drivers on pre |
| 05:44.17 | DraX | i wonder if the announcing GSM on tuesday rumor is true.. |
| 05:44.33 | bpadalino | what event would it coincide with ? |
| 05:45.10 | DraX | i don't even remember, i think i saw it on engadget.. |
| 05:46.51 | tmzt | unless its carrier announcement |
| 05:47.28 | bpadalino | you think palm would give up an announcement to a carrier ? |
| 05:47.57 | tmzt | 6800 was an interesting choice for a single technolog device |
| 05:48.25 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: is there an issue with my bash? |
| 05:48.56 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: the post-install script creates /etc/shells |
| 05:49.19 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: and populates it only with bash, making ask and sh invalid |
| 05:49.25 | JackieRipper | ash* |
| 05:49.45 | PuffTheMagic | ahh |
| 05:49.56 | PuffTheMagic | so if it dont exist i should add /bin/sh also |
| 05:50.23 | JackieRipper | http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m3022188 |
| 05:51.36 | PuffTheMagic | i instantly change my shell in /etc/passwd to bash i never tested it with ash ;) |
| 05:55.02 | freakout | DraX: where'd you hear that rumor? |
| 05:56.22 | *** join/#webos-internals JaSonx (i=JaSon@ip72-199-138-59.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 05:56.33 | JaSonx | evening |
| 05:56.50 | DraX | freakout: one of the news sites.. engadget/gizmodo/precentral/palminfocenter i don't remember which or even the details really just tuesday + maybe gsm |
| 05:57.03 | DraX | could even have been phandroid. :) |
| 05:57.03 | freakout | k |
| 05:57.13 | freakout | tries not to get hopes up for unlocked GSM goodness soon... |
| 05:57.14 | JaSonx | maybe someone can help when i use the media sync feature i always get installing novacom linux but no driver is found |
| 05:57.18 | JaSonx | any ideas ? |
| 05:57.33 | DraX | freakout: yeah... i want badly |
| 05:57.53 | oil | freakout is freaking out? |
| 05:58.00 | freakout | lol |
| 05:58.03 | freakout | *always* |
| 05:58.11 | freakout | Doctors tell me it's bad for my blood pressure |
| 05:58.17 | freakout | but what do they know |
| 05:58.30 | oil | probably quite a bit |
| 05:59.07 | freakout | yeah, them with their fancy "edyookashuns" and "syense" |
| 05:59.59 | freakout | What will be the *real* freak out is the unlocked price, I'm guessing |
| 06:00.11 | oil | 2000 |
| 06:00.20 | bpadalino | probably similar to the unsubsidized price |
| 06:00.22 | bpadalino | i would think |
| 06:00.23 | freakout | i'd lol but it's probably true /depression |
| 06:00.34 | oil | what would be really funny |
| 06:00.58 | oil | if it was announced right after rwhitby ordered a non-gsm pre |
| 06:01.06 | freakout | oil: lol |
| 06:01.10 | freakout | that would just be cruel |
| 06:01.26 | rwhitby | oil: I have a chunk-based rawlist ready to go |
| 06:01.36 | oil | oh rly |
| 06:01.39 | bpadalino | announced and available are two different things tho |
| 06:01.46 | oil | yeah |
| 06:01.53 | rwhitby | oil: I made it backwards-compatible too. |
| 06:01.54 | freakout | bpadalino: you would think indeed, but the unlocked Treo 650 commanded a pretty big premium over the US price from what i remembered |
| 06:01.57 | oil | but if it was announced, he wouldn't exactly be looking to buy a non-gsm pre though |
| 06:02.09 | bpadalino | freakout: ah, i didn't know |
| 06:02.30 | freakout | bpadalino: i'm not sure i do either, my memory is not terribly reliable ;) |
| 06:02.51 | oil | rwhitby, how do i go about using of it? |
| 06:03.27 | rwhitby | oil: first, you pass "subscribe": true |
| 06:03.40 | rwhitby | oil: you will get a message with "stage" == "start" which contains "filesize" and "chunksize" fields, but no "contents" field. |
| 06:03.40 | oil | this is per-feed? |
| 06:03.45 | rwhitby | oil: yes |
| 06:03.49 | oil | ok |
| 06:03.54 | oil | well |
| 06:04.05 | oil | ill wait for hte explanation |
| 06:04.10 | rwhitby | oil: then you will get multiple "stage" == "middle" messages, with "size" and "contents" fields. |
| 06:04.11 | oil | for when there is an ipk i can test iwth |
| 06:04.53 | rwhitby | oil: then you will finally get a "stage" == "end" message, with no contents, but with the final "datasize" field (which may, for some reason, be smaller than the original "filesize") |
| 06:05.19 | rwhitby | oil: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.9_all.ipk |
| 06:05.31 | oil | ok |
| 06:05.34 | oil | also |
| 06:05.39 | rwhitby | oil: if you leave off the "subscribe": true, then it's the same as before. |
| 06:05.52 | oil | we'll have to think about how we want to to the move from no flags to flags |
| 06:06.10 | bpadalino | night |
| 06:06.11 | rwhitby | yes, we will. |
| 06:06.30 | oil | right now, i stripped all the other stuff out |
| 06:06.35 | oil | so it only works with flags |
| 06:06.52 | oil | the currently pushed version that is |
| 06:07.05 | oil | are we upping hte aipVersion for this split? |
| 06:07.15 | rwhitby | yes, this is apiVersion 4. |
| 06:07.16 | oil | since pre 089 doesn't have the split |
| 06:07.17 | oil | 4? |
| 06:07.18 | oil | lol |
| 06:07.18 | freakout | Quick room question: can webOS mount external storage? i.e. sd cards, usb drives? |
| 06:07.20 | oil | we skipped a number? |
| 06:07.21 | oil | awesome |
| 06:07.34 | oil | can webos, or can the pre? |
| 06:07.41 | freakout | Both :) |
| 06:07.53 | rwhitby | oil: but it is backwards compatible, so we didn't really need to bump it. |
| 06:07.55 | oil | thanks for clarifying |
| 06:08.00 | oil | however, i dont know the answer to either |
| 06:08.01 | freakout | I know webOS is Linux-based, so it's there |
| 06:08.09 | freakout | under the surface anyway. |
| 06:08.19 | freakout | but is there any top-level stuff that hints at it? |
| 06:08.30 | oil | not that ive ever seen |
| 06:08.53 | rwhitby | actualy, it would be good if some other alpha tester tested ipkgservice 0.8.9 to make sure it still works with the currently released preware |
| 06:08.54 | freakout | kk |
| 06:09.07 | freakout | rwhitby, I'll load it up now if you'd like |
| 06:09.12 | rwhitby | thx |
| 06:09.38 | DraX | freakout: i think somebody in here mentioned that they'd been working on getting their pre to mount a umass device |
| 06:09.44 | rwhitby | oil: not that chunks may be split in the middle of anything - there is no parsing to get clean breaks or anything. |
| 06:09.49 | rwhitby | s/not/note/ |
| 06:09.58 | oil | right |
| 06:10.07 | rwhitby | you just get the next 4096 chars and that's it. |
| 06:10.10 | freakout | DraX: yeah, i thought I'd seen that too |
| 06:10.13 | oil | ill just be sticking them all together |
| 06:10.19 | oil | then parsing |
| 06:10.23 | oil | at the end stage |
| 06:10.36 | rwhitby | yeah, I figured that would be easiest for you. |
| 06:10.53 | rwhitby | that's why I give you the max size at the start |
| 06:11.13 | oil | huh |
| 06:11.17 | oil | not sure what im going to do with it |
| 06:11.25 | oil | considering there is no way for me to re-call a specific part |
| 06:11.34 | rwhitby | if you need to preallocate a string, so save continual reallocating .... |
| 06:11.48 | oil | im not sure how that works with javascript |
| 06:11.57 | rwhitby | neither am I :-) |
| 06:12.01 | oil | i just set var everything = ''; |
| 06:12.09 | oil | then everything += whatIgot; |
| 06:12.14 | oil | lol |
| 06:12.28 | rwhitby | maybe we'll just move the memory problem over to your side ;-) |
| 06:12.35 | oil | idk |
| 06:12.41 | oil | its already handling the string you send ok |
| 06:12.48 | oil | the problem was sending it all over the bus, right? |
| 06:12.56 | oil | so by splitting it up, makes no difference on the js side |
| 06:13.05 | rwhitby | the problem seemed to be the JSON.toString just before it went in the packet |
| 06:13.43 | oil | and, the service seems to have updated hte copy i hve on my pre |
| 06:13.56 | oil | which is has no changes to the updating/loading portion of the code from 085 |
| 06:14.34 | rwhitby | good, I figured backwards compatibility was important to remove the need for a flag day |
| 06:14.59 | TFGBD | Hey. |
| 06:15.04 | oil | but |
| 06:15.12 | oil | the old apps wont work with no flags |
| 06:15.17 | oil | and the new app wont work with flags |
| 06:15.19 | oil | i mean |
| 06:15.21 | oil | yeah |
| 06:15.33 | freakout | rwhitby: no obvious bugs leap out (ipkgservice 0 |
| 06:15.34 | oil | something like that |
| 06:15.40 | freakout | bah |
| 06:15.55 | freakout | ipkgservice 0.8.9, preware 0.8.5 |
| 06:16.07 | oil | haven't tried 086 yet? |
| 06:16.08 | oil | xD |
| 06:16.15 | freakout | haha |
| 06:16.26 | freakout | Actually I was running 1.0 |
| 06:16.39 | oil | 1.0 is garbage |
| 06:16.42 | freakout | But reverted. I thought it sucked |
| 06:16.45 | freakout | lol |
| 06:16.48 | oil | lol |
| 06:17.45 | Eguy | 1.0 is better than 1.1 |
| 06:18.00 | oil | 086 is sexy with the palm-dark theme xD |
| 06:18.52 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 06:18.54 | freakout | ooooo |
| 06:19.01 | freakout | aaaaahhhhh |
| 06:19.03 | *** join/#webos-internals dkirker1 (n=dkirker1@gateway0.openmobl.com) |
| 06:19.03 | rwhitby | here I am, slaving away on memory optimisations, and oil is just adding bling ;-) |
| 06:19.04 | PuffTheMagic | oil: i wondered why you didnt do that from the beginning |
| 06:19.07 | PuffTheMagic | all your other apps were |
| 06:19.10 | freakout | lol |
| 06:19.11 | oil | lol |
| 06:19.14 | oil | its got the option |
| 06:19.25 | freakout | pictures oil coding whilst laden with gold chains |
| 06:19.29 | oil | it defaults to palm-default though |
| 06:19.30 | freakout | And no pants, of course. |
| 06:19.38 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: dont bother optimizing it in C, just rewrite it with me in C :D |
| 06:19.57 | oil | looks forward to c service |
| 06:20.11 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@68-29-57-76.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 06:20.14 | oil | really though, adding the dark styles took all of like 10 minutes |
| 06:20.18 | PuffTheMagic | oil: when can you start doing the uber monitor gui thing? |
| 06:20.20 | oil | mostly creating some new art |
| 06:20.54 | oil | when there is something i can test with that doesn't require me de-virginizing my pre :) |
| 06:21.25 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: you may also want to include an uninstall script, so users aren't stuck with bash as their default shell after removal. Something like http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m1098f94 |
| 06:21.52 | PuffTheMagic | i htought i did remove it in the prerm script... |
| 06:21.58 | JackieRipper | hmm |
| 06:22.02 | oil | rwhitby: so the subscribtion is only on the rawlist, not rawstatus method, right? |
| 06:22.05 | JackieRipper | I may have missed it |
| 06:22.18 | rwhitby | oil: right, I can add it to rawstatus easily if you prefer |
| 06:22.26 | oil | i dont think itl be a problem right now |
| 06:24.04 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: it the prerm script removes it from /etc/shells, but not /etc/passwd |
| 06:24.09 | rwhitby | oil: so any changes you see being needed, or shall I release 0.8.9 to give people time to update before the next preware? |
| 06:24.42 | oil | can't see any problems right now |
| 06:24.48 | oil | but i've only just opened the code xD |
| 06:25.03 | PuffTheMagic | i dont edit etc passwd do it? |
| 06:25.24 | PuffTheMagic | in the postinst i thought i only edit shells |
| 06:27.03 | *** join/#webos-internals SNiPER (n=sniper@71.21.105.104) |
| 06:27.09 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: If I install bash through preware, then edit my /etc/passwd to use it, then uninstall through preware, I won't be able to log in as root again |
| 06:27.21 | JackieRipper | even through novaterm |
| 06:27.33 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: doctor, it hurts when i do that. then don't do that. |
| 06:27.36 | PuffTheMagic | well yeah if u edit it manually how is that the scripts fault |
| 06:28.20 | PuffTheMagic | i think it if dont find bash it still tries sh |
| 06:28.32 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: it's not. That being said, it's simple enough to change any instance of /var/bin/bash to /bin/sh when you remove /var/bin/bash |
| 06:28.52 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: not in my experience on other platforms. it may do on this one, dunno. |
| 06:28.56 | PuffTheMagic | that assuming it not already there |
| 06:29.04 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: ^^ |
| 06:29.51 | rwhitby | oil: I'll release 0.8.9 when you have the first working version on your machine |
| 06:29.53 | JackieRipper | If it's already there, it's either broken or you're removing a /var/bin/bash that was already there |
| 06:31.12 | JackieRipper | the shell in /etc/passwd has the full path, if you remove that shell, it will break, and in the Pre's case, the user will be forced to use webosdoctor. I'm not saying it'll be the script's fault, but it's an *easily* preventable user error. |
| 06:32.11 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: i think if you are smart enough to add bash to shells you should be smart enough to remove it from shells |
| 06:32.26 | PuffTheMagic | but i guess i coul;d check shells |
| 06:32.35 | PuffTheMagic | and make sure at least /bin/sh is in there |
| 06:32.47 | PuffTheMagic | grep -c |
| 06:32.50 | PuffTheMagic | > 0 |
| 06:32.53 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: we're talking about two different things |
| 06:33.02 | PuffTheMagic | errr passwd |
| 06:33.06 | PuffTheMagic | forgot |
| 06:33.15 | JackieRipper | it's not just grep -c |
| 06:33.23 | PuffTheMagic | its some sed magic |
| 06:33.25 | PuffTheMagic | big deal |
| 06:33.35 | PuffTheMagic | not something i want to do to /etc/passwd |
| 06:33.43 | PuffTheMagic | but i could probable add it |
| 06:34.01 | JackieRipper | if root's shell is non-existent, almost everything that runs as root will not run |
| 06:34.01 | PuffTheMagic | i was sorta against touching important files |
| 06:34.42 | rwhitby | rightly so, imho. |
| 06:34.55 | PuffTheMagic | idk what you want me to say... the ipkg does not touch passwd on install |
| 06:35.01 | PuffTheMagic | i dont think it should touch it on removal |
| 06:35.29 | JackieRipper | It should check that's its removal won't break the entire system |
| 06:35.29 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: but i might touch a file on install |
| 06:35.36 | PuffTheMagic | and require user to manaully delete it |
| 06:35.42 | PuffTheMagic | before uninstall works |
| 06:36.00 | PuffTheMagic | and that file could be FIX_YOUR_PASSWD_BEFORE_DELETING |
| 06:36.01 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 06:36.09 | JackieRipper | to not do so is extremely irresponsible |
| 06:36.37 | PuffTheMagic | its not really my chore to hold users hands, they had enough smarts to change it manually |
| 06:36.40 | PuffTheMagic | they can put it back |
| 06:36.57 | JackieRipper | they can't if they do the steps out of order |
| 06:37.09 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: users can already install bash in optware |
| 06:37.17 | PuffTheMagic | and if they add it to shells same thing happens |
| 06:37.22 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: w/e, I'm done |
| 06:37.48 | PuffTheMagic | s/shells/passwd |
| 06:38.41 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: this is plain old, you shouldnt be messing around as root if you dont know what your are doing |
| 06:38.52 | PuffTheMagic | same reason why ubuntu dont give youa root passwd |
| 06:38.55 | JackieRipper | It extremely poor/lazy development to not even check that what you're doing will break the entire system, especially when the fix is *one line*. It's bad programming. Period. |
| 06:38.57 | PuffTheMagic | and makes you use sudo |
| 06:39.08 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: what im doing dont break the system |
| 06:39.11 | PuffTheMagic | its the user that breaks it |
| 06:39.38 | PuffTheMagic | exec /var/bin/bash to .ashrc or something |
| 06:39.45 | PuffTheMagic | dont edit passwd |
| 06:43.03 | *** join/#webos-internals dustifer (n=dp@c-71-59-201-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:45.23 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: the current post-install script makes it so you will never be able to log in - even after removing bash, because it creates /etc/shells, doesn't add /bin/sh, and leave the file there when it uninstalls. Next, if someone actually uses bash, by changing a user's shell, and forgets to change it back before uninstalling, that account is broken, If that account is root, it's not fixable. I agree that it's user |
| 06:46.15 | oil | rwhitby: subscription works here |
| 06:46.18 | oil | in the emu and on my pre |
| 06:46.27 | oil | just pushed the changes if you want to check it out/try to break it or whatever |
| 06:46.28 | rwhitby | oil: excellent |
| 06:46.34 | JackieRipper | I installed it through preware, and had I not already had a shell open to modify /etc/shells, I would have had to use the doctor |
| 06:47.40 | TFGBD | Hey, can one of you guys port Windows CE to this Pre thing? |
| 06:47.47 | TFGBD | Thank's in advance. |
| 06:47.56 | oil | lol |
| 06:49.15 | Eguy | lmao |
| 06:49.32 | TFGBD | Let me know when you've started the BSP bringup. |
| 06:49.35 | TFGBD | Bye |
| 06:49.38 | *** part/#webos-internals TFGBD (n=gar@98.225.178.26) |
| 06:49.46 | rwhitby | oil: do you think it's faster or slower or no change? |
| 06:49.53 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: I know exactly what I'm doing, and installing bash from preware almost made it so I could never log in again... It was luck that I already had a session open. |
| 06:49.54 | Eguy | rofl that was interesting |
| 06:50.13 | *** join/#webos-internals TFGBD (n=gar@98.225.178.26) |
| 06:51.49 | rwhitby | oil: works here too |
| 06:54.06 | TFGBD | But seriously, you guys think something more useful than WebOS will be possible on this thing in the future? |
| 06:54.18 | TFGBD | Maybe Mono, Qtopia or Android? |
| 06:55.09 | oil | rwhitby: i didnt notice any change on the pre |
| 06:55.33 | rwhitby | Package Manager Service 0.8.9 is released to the public feeds. |
| 06:55.43 | oil | TFGBD: I like webos |
| 06:55.59 | Eguy | TFGBD: webos is awesome |
| 06:56.35 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: And just as you shouldn't be messing around as root when you don't know what you're doing, you should be distributing poorly written scripts when you really have no idea how things work or what the ramifications of the commands in those scripts are. And you certainly shouldn't bitch at the guy who points out your error *and* hands you the damn fix. You say, "Thanks," to that guy. |
| 06:56.41 | TFGBD | Okay then... It still sounds limited |
| 06:56.42 | JackieRipper | and with that, I'm off to bed |
| 06:56.48 | JackieRipper | have a good night, y'all |
| 06:56.50 | oil | "sounds"? |
| 06:56.53 | oil | have you used it? |
| 06:56.54 | Eguy | see ya Jackie |
| 06:57.06 | rwhitby | discussions of webos vs other OS's (apart from the detailed technical internals of each) can be had in #webos |
| 06:57.08 | TFGBD | Nope. |
| 06:57.12 | oil | well then |
| 06:57.15 | Eguy | how could something sound limited unless it is a speaker |
| 06:57.20 | TFGBD | It looks gay, though |
| 06:57.27 | rwhitby | don't feed the troll |
| 06:57.33 | oil | as opposed to windows ce??! |
| 06:57.41 | Eguy | Thank you rwhitby |
| 06:58.00 | TFGBD | What can I say, I have a fondness for Windows CE and the explorer shell. |
| 06:58.01 | oil | rwhitby: but i've got all this troll food i bought in bulk with nothing to do with it |
| 06:58.21 | rwhitby | oil: you can feed him all you like in #webos - no real work happening in there at the moment. |
| 06:58.27 | oil | lol |
| 06:58.31 | Eguy | oil: have you got the apple fanboy antidote with you? |
| 06:58.50 | rwhitby | oil: so, about that flags transition. |
| 06:59.14 | oil | brb |
| 06:59.22 | rwhitby | oil: you don't happen to have that in a separate branch to the chunk stuff do you? ;-0 |
| 06:59.28 | TFGBD | So beautiful! http://www.pmptoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/newman-mini-all-vx1000-pmp.JPG |
| 06:59.30 | rwhitby | oops, ;-) |
| 07:00.07 | rwhitby | don't feed the troll |
| 07:00.24 | oil | lol |
| 07:00.44 | oil | rwhitby: no, its all in that one spot |
| 07:00.59 | rwhitby | oil: no probs. guess we need to work out the flags transition then. |
| 07:01.05 | oil | yeah |
| 07:01.10 | oil | with jason, and the webosgroup guys |
| 07:01.15 | rwhitby | yep |
| 07:01.24 | oil | webosgroup guys can look at preware as an example |
| 07:01.28 | oil | it seems to work pretty good |
| 07:01.38 | oil | i think maybe the esiest way right now |
| 07:01.45 | oil | well |
| 07:01.45 | oil | n |
| 07:01.49 | oil | no* |
| 07:01.52 | oil | that wont be any easier |
| 07:01.53 | oil | lol |
| 07:01.56 | rwhitby | so we have ipkgs in the field which do certain restarts, and we can make our ipkgs not do the restarts any time we choose. |
| 07:01.59 | oil | its going to be a pita nomatter how we cut it |
| 07:02.54 | rwhitby | scenario (1): old ipkg, new preware. old ipkg does the restart, preware does something weird, we blame the old ipkg :-) |
| 07:03.01 | oil | and, that device was so ugly |
| 07:03.02 | oil | lolol |
| 07:03.12 | Eguy | oil: stop feeding the troll |
| 07:03.14 | oil | lol |
| 07:03.22 | rwhitby | scenario (2): new ipkg, old preware. new ipkg doesn't work until after a reboot. |
| 07:03.36 | oil | rwhitby: right now, preware will hold up in the action when waiting for the service to respond so it can run the flags |
| 07:03.37 | rwhitby | scenario (3): new ipkg, new preware: everything is sweet. |
| 07:03.54 | Eguy | which requires the most work? |
| 07:03.56 | oil | that was for 1 |
| 07:04.05 | rwhitby | oil: so the service should eventually respond, since the upstart script will restart it |
| 07:04.15 | oil | #2, packages will require a reboot with the old preware |
| 07:04.33 | oil | idk if the service responds |
| 07:04.34 | rwhitby | #2 is easy, we just tell people to use the new preware. |
| 07:04.36 | oil | it didnt in my testing anyways |
| 07:04.50 | oil | we really need jason to be in on this |
| 07:04.51 | rwhitby | oil: might need to timeout, do a cancel, and test status. |
| 07:04.59 | oil | as packagemanager will need a restart on first install |
| 07:05.42 | rwhitby | oil: oh, here's a thought. we can put conditionals in the postinsts for the transition period |
| 07:06.24 | rwhitby | we should also be able to tell whether we are running under a new preware, or from quick install, cause quick install won't have the IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT env var set. |
| 07:06.38 | oil | scenario 4: a separate transitional feed for flags |
| 07:07.17 | oil | but yeah, fixing the postinsts / prerems is probably the easiest |
| 07:07.33 | oil | (dont forget those prerems, since they're the real reason for flags along with dependencys) |
| 07:07.40 | rwhitby | right |
| 07:07.51 | rwhitby | I think the env var saves us. |
| 07:08.00 | oil | well thats good |
| 07:08.24 | oil | and once the scripts are all changed, 086 is probably good to go as it is |
| 07:08.29 | oil | sans dependencies |
| 07:08.37 | oil | but being able to remove and update services |
| 07:08.49 | rwhitby | can we get dependencies in at the same time? |
| 07:09.00 | *** part/#webos-internals TFGBD (n=gar@98.225.178.26) |
| 07:09.12 | rwhitby | ah, I guess we want to get results from the memory stuff. |
| 07:09.15 | oil | awwwww TFGBD left |
| 07:09.26 | oil | and |
| 07:09.39 | oil | i haven't written the multiple package installation stuff yet |
| 07:09.54 | oil | ive been thinking about the most elegant way to go about it :/ |
| 07:10.11 | Eguy | stupid troll, trix are for kids |
| 07:10.51 | oil | he was real funny |
| 07:11.11 | Eguy | All trolls are funny, usually |
| 07:11.54 | Eguy | I was shocked to see an absense of Apple fanboys on the app catalog post on Engadget |
| 07:12.06 | Eguy | but genuine Pre owners |
| 07:12.41 | oil | usually any palm post on engadget turns into a flame war |
| 07:13.02 | Eguy | same with MS and Apple posts |
| 07:13.24 | rwhitby | oil: ok, so I'll do the postinst and prerm changes to conditionalise the restarts, and then I'll test that with current WOSQI and new Preware. |
| 07:13.26 | Eguy | and when new computers come out someone always says will it run crysis |
| 07:13.38 | rwhitby | oil: then we can release all that together. |
| 07:13.44 | oil | yeah |
| 07:13.49 | oil | 086 seems good to go |
| 07:13.52 | oil | once that stuff is tested |
| 07:14.01 | oil | it works great with accelservice anyways |
| 07:14.05 | Eguy | oooh |
| 07:14.08 | Eguy | big news http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/lg-officially-announces-gw620-its-first-android-phone/ |
| 07:14.10 | oil | and i dont think there is any other outstanding bugs |
| 07:14.33 | oil | lol |
| 07:14.36 | oil | my last phone was an LG |
| 07:14.46 | oil | a dumbphone |
| 07:14.59 | rwhitby | oil: oh, BTW, did you get the log to pop up on an install error? |
| 07:15.06 | oil | oh |
| 07:15.07 | oil | yeah |
| 07:15.09 | oil | i was going to do that |
| 07:15.25 | oil | but i was going to say more "there was an error" ok - see log |
| 07:15.42 | rwhitby | while you're there, can you put the title of each of those sections *below* the stdErr and stdOut text? |
| 07:15.46 | oil | but i was also going to change how the logs were handled |
| 07:15.50 | oil | so it could go on the main scene also |
| 07:16.06 | oil | titles of esctions below stderr and out? |
| 07:16.11 | rwhitby | yep |
| 07:16.16 | oil | i dont fallow |
| 07:16.23 | Eguy | oil: I mispoke, it turned into a flamewar |
| 07:16.28 | rwhitby | so Completed is written after the stderr and stdout lines from the completed stage |
| 07:16.38 | rwhitby | instead of before |
| 07:17.00 | oil | its more of a "here is whats returned with this stage" |
| 07:17.12 | oil | the stage is completed |
| 07:17.17 | oil | and those are the logs that came with it |
| 07:17.29 | oil | Eguy: http://www.metro-pcs-phones.com/images/LG%20VX6000%20image.gif was my last phone |
| 07:17.33 | oil | i had it for YEARS |
| 07:17.39 | oil | waiting for something better |
| 07:17.48 | rwhitby | oil: yeah, I'm wondering if the other way around won't be more intuitive for users? |
| 07:17.58 | oil | i dont know |
| 07:18.04 | oil | are users going to know at all what to do with it? |
| 07:18.10 | oil | or is it something they're going to tell us |
| 07:18.17 | dustifer | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X3DT-aRCXRg/RYZr9OtPshI/AAAAAAAAAHA/Dy12B9VKWss/s400/zackphone.jpg |
| 07:18.19 | dustifer | that was my last phone. |
| 07:18.23 | Eguy | That's painful oil |
| 07:18.24 | oil | lol |
| 07:18.49 | oil | it worked, thats all that really mattered |
| 07:18.59 | rwhitby | oil: the way it is now, the stuff in the completed stage (which comes after the postinst stage) is actually the output from running the postinst. |
| 07:19.01 | Eguy | I feel kinda backwards with the pre LOL |
| 07:19.28 | rwhitby | oil: alternatively, I can change what is sent up and just have an empty completed stage at the end. |
| 07:19.41 | rwhitby | your call, I'm easy either way. |
| 07:19.45 | oil | lets determine what the log is for |
| 07:19.45 | Eguy | My centro worked better but it looked like **** and the OS is a decade years old |
| 07:19.50 | oil | to debug the service and preware |
| 07:19.55 | oil | or to make the user understand it: |
| 07:19.58 | oil | ?* |
| 07:20.06 | oil | this way it makes more sense for debugging |
| 07:20.12 | oil | to me anyways |
| 07:20.33 | rwhitby | oil: is it because it matches the dbus messages? |
| 07:20.45 | Eguy | decade old* I don't know how I overlooked that hmm I will shut up now |
| 07:21.25 | oil | it does right now |
| 07:21.43 | oil | and flipping them around would only make the beginning seem weird |
| 07:21.49 | oil | instead of the end |
| 07:22.38 | rwhitby | hmm - let's leave it as-is and see what happens. |
| 07:23.26 | rwhitby | leave the titles as-is and I'll see if I can come up with a better set of messages. |
| 07:23.35 | tlz | hmmmm |
| 07:23.57 | oil | it also puts in the errorcode/text if there is any |
| 07:23.59 | oil | under each response |
| 07:24.00 | tlz | "The package Manager Service is not running. Did you remember to install it? If you did, perhaps you should try rebooting your phone" |
| 07:24.05 | tlz | i tried that.. but i still got the same msg |
| 07:24.39 | rwhitby | tlz: how did you install it, and did you wait until the cell service had come back up? |
| 07:25.17 | tlz | yeah i waited.. i installed it via command prompt originally |
| 07:25.30 | rwhitby | did you run the postinst? |
| 07:25.42 | tlz | yeah, it was running before :( |
| 07:25.44 | tlz | just not now |
| 07:25.57 | rwhitby | did you run the postinst when you installed the latest version? |
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| 07:26.13 | tlz | hmmm, false alarm.. it finally kicked in |
| 07:26.15 | tlz | sorry! |
| 07:26.28 | tlz | is 0.8.5 the newest version? |
| 07:26.38 | rwhitby | of preware, yes. |
| 07:26.50 | rwhitby | of ipkgservice, 0.8.9 is the latest |
| 07:27.05 | tlz | oo i dont have the ipkgservice updated to 8.9 |
| 07:27.54 | tlz | now i have a new question |
| 07:28.02 | tlz | i tried to install an app the other day |
| 07:28.05 | tlz | and it says im out of space |
| 07:28.11 | tlz | does that mean /var is filled up? |
| 07:29.39 | Eguy | no tlz |
| 07:29.44 | Eguy | you hit the limiter |
| 07:29.51 | rwhitby | No Pre for .au: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 |
| 07:29.51 | Eguy | I have the same problem |
| 07:31.06 | Eguy | LOL rwhitby is a fictional character |
| 07:31.26 | tlz | eguy, can u fix that? :P |
| 07:31.29 | rwhitby | so now I need to get a CDMA Pre from the US, and a GSM Pre from .eu when released :-( |
| 07:31.56 | rwhitby | and big warranty problems if I get an oreo. |
| 07:32.09 | Eguy | Indeed |
| 07:32.17 | Eguy | don't open the slider |
| 07:32.49 | Eguy | tlz: no I can't :P I suspect it will be "removed" when the catalog comes out of beta and into RC1 ;) |
| 07:33.27 | tlz | damn |
| 07:33.38 | tlz | so you gotta choose which apps u really want lol |
| 07:33.53 | rwhitby | it's in a binary file, so we can't easily patch it either |
| 07:34.09 | oil | i think some people really just dont take care of their stuff |
| 07:34.12 | oil | mine has no oreo |
| 07:34.26 | tlz | weak sauce! i want more apps! |
| 07:34.27 | tlz | lol |
| 07:34.35 | Eguy | mine has no oreo |
| 07:34.39 | oil | it moves what feels like a millimeter give when open |
| 07:34.48 | oil | which is just so it actually slides open and closed |
| 07:34.58 | Eguy | but my screen does have a clicky feeling on the left side when closed |
| 07:35.08 | oil | mine does that also |
| 07:35.14 | oil | but only if i pinch it |
| 07:35.18 | oil | so i dont pinch it |
| 07:35.28 | Eguy | Mine's a bit more than that |
| 07:35.37 | Eguy | but it is not worth getting a new one over |
| 07:36.02 | rwhitby | So http://www.mobicity.com.au/palm-pre.html seems to be my best shot at a GSM Pre when released. |
| 07:36.08 | oil | no dead pixels |
| 07:36.16 | oil | and just a little of lightbleed at the bottom |
| 07:36.35 | Eguy | I have 3 burn spots on the top left but you can't see them at all |
| 07:36.41 | Eguy | no dead pixels |
| 07:36.49 | Eguy | OUCH rwhitby |
| 07:36.53 | Eguy | 899 |
| 07:37.01 | Eguy | you can buy a scooter for that much |
| 07:37.02 | oil | yeah, ouch for sure |
| 07:37.15 | Eguy | Availability: Currently stocked. REALLY??? |
| 07:37.18 | Eguy | LOL |
| 07:37.19 | rwhitby | that's USD$770 |
| 07:37.31 | rwhitby | Eguy: the PRE-order is currently stocked. |
| 07:37.45 | Eguy | Well |
| 07:37.55 | Eguy | every pre-order is stocked ;) |
| 07:37.57 | rwhitby | they just bulk order from hong kong or somewhere when they get them there. |
| 07:38.35 | Eguy | It should say available to order instead |
| 07:38.51 | rwhitby | yeah, no one would be silly enough to actually order off that site until it's released. people have checked them out and they seem legit - they have a history of importing latest phones as they are released. |
| 07:39.47 | Eguy | 3MP camera huh? |
| 07:39.56 | oil | i thought the canadian pre was gsm? |
| 07:39.57 | oil | it snot? |
| 07:40.03 | Eguy | Negative |
| 07:40.14 | oil | knows nothing about cell services |
| 07:40.43 | rwhitby | http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1119842&p=51 has lots more info on .au Pre :-) |
| 07:41.05 | Eguy | ahhh whirlpool |
| 07:41.33 | Eguy | The australian's home on the interwebnetz |
| 07:42.23 | rwhitby | http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1119842&p=55#r1083 in particular |
| 07:43.23 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 07:43.33 | Eguy | I am going to sleep |
| 07:44.42 | tlz | eguy |
| 07:44.50 | Eguy | what |
| 07:44.55 | tlz | hows it goin |
| 07:45.04 | Eguy | going well |
| 07:45.07 | tlz | sweet |
| 07:45.08 | Eguy | but I am going to sleep |
| 07:45.09 | tlz | how was your weekend |
| 07:45.43 | Eguy | good |
| 07:45.45 | Eguy | yours? |
| 07:46.08 | tlz | eh |
| 07:46.11 | tlz | i worked all weekend |
| 07:46.18 | tlz | 930am to 1130pm today |
| 07:46.22 | Eguy | ouch |
| 07:46.30 | Eguy | alright see you on the other side |
| 07:46.36 | tlz | that sucked pretty bad, and saturday was a crappy day too |
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| 09:49.29 | freakout | rwhitby: those whirlpool threads are depressing. |
| 09:49.41 | freakout | I didn't know they'd gotten rid of Brett Murray too |
| 09:49.47 | freakout | He was my last remaining contact with Palm AU |
| 09:50.02 | freakout | But he was never allowed to say anything substantial. |
| 09:50.13 | freakout | Always referring me back to the US office. |
| 09:50.52 | freakout | Guess we'll be importing European Pres. Maybe you can steal one from the Playbite trade show in London on the 15th |
| 09:51.08 | freakout | If you wanna buy plane tickets, I'll be your wingman ;) |
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| 11:18.17 | Decimation | Yay, engadget used my tip and thanked me :) |
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| 11:31.07 | freakout | lol |
| 11:31.14 | freakout | Decimation: kesne wants words with you :P |
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| 12:01.33 | greg_roll | good evening, does anyone know how to start a newly installed service without rebooting? thanks,greg |
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| 12:16.22 | Templarian | i like how engadget used his screenshots for the article. |
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| 15:07.11 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: ping |
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| 15:07.33 | Zuchmir2 | pong |
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| 15:53.18 | caniball | hello. |
| 15:56.32 | caniball | im able to connect to ssh by localip but not external ip, anyone knows why? |
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| 16:17.33 | StoneRyno | I was just thinking about preware and webos quick install and patches and the scripts or steps performed in the next steps section of accessing linux.... is it possible to add those to either or both? |
| 16:18.44 | StoneRyno | Also wondering how are the patches added to preware? Is that something I would be able to help with getting the patches added to it? |
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| 16:49.13 | A2NY | lastseen destinal |
| 16:49.35 | destinal1 | I don't think he exists |
| 16:52.04 | destinal_ | left my machine at home running pidgin without changing nick or signing off :( |
| 16:53.16 | A2NY | doh |
| 16:53.28 | A2NY | ssh :) |
| 16:53.55 | A2NY | you run pidgin for irc ? =\ |
| 16:54.29 | destinal_ | sure. I already use it for all kinds of other IM protocols so one-stop shopping |
| 16:54.42 | destinal_ | pidgin works pretty well for IRC really |
| 16:56.21 | A2NY | killall pidgin /muahaha |
| 16:59.13 | A2NY | i will have to check it out |
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| 17:01.30 | A2NY | i crashed pidgin, lol wtf |
| 17:01.57 | destinal_ | A2NY: there you go breaking things again :P |
| 17:02.13 | FreeTim | Yep. I also use Pidgin for everything...irc, ICQ, etc etc etc... even XMPP |
| 17:02.14 | A2NY | "/join webos-internals" = crash |
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| 17:04.05 | A2NY | oh well |
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| 17:16.33 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir3: yo |
| 17:16.48 | PuffTheMagic | destinal_: ping |
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| 17:23.49 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: pong |
| 17:24.06 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: subscriptions are working again sorta |
| 17:24.28 | Zuchmir2 | cool, what do you mean "sorta" |
| 17:24.30 | PuffTheMagic | but i still need the SUBSCRIPTIONS_ST thing |
| 17:24.53 | PuffTheMagic | LSSubscriptionAcquire still needs the /<category>/<method> |
| 17:25.10 | Zuchmir2 | that's what i thought |
| 17:25.21 | Zuchmir2 | that's where -14 comes |
| 17:25.25 | PuffTheMagic | even if it dont use LSSubscription reply |
| 17:25.31 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: yeah i get where you were going now |
| 17:25.39 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: but is there anyway we can make that macro more generic |
| 17:25.49 | PuffTheMagic | so we dont need one for each monitor |
| 17:26.26 | Zuchmir2 | yeah, add a "folder" prefix, and "function" prefix |
| 17:28.04 | PuffTheMagic | to the struct? |
| 17:28.12 | PuffTheMagic | swich to PM now that you are backoneline |
| 17:30.07 | tmzt | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/thanks-for-coming-out-to-the-engadget-show/ |
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| 17:59.01 | lmorchard | So... writing services in Java is still a homebrew-only thing, right? |
| 18:01.32 | bpadalino|work | yes |
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| 18:09.09 | lmorchard | Crud. Hate to write a service just to do a binary upload in HTTP |
| 18:09.48 | lmorchard | Though, I suppose that might be a useful service |
| 18:12.17 | bpadalino|work | you can't put binary data using html ? |
| 18:12.31 | lmorchard | Well, not using XMLHttpRequest anyway |
| 18:12.37 | bpadalino|work | ah |
| 18:12.40 | lmorchard | http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=7002#p7002 |
| 18:13.08 | lmorchard | I haven't tried using an actual form with a file input field in an app, but that seems limited. |
| 18:13.30 | lmorchard | If input="file" even works in an app |
| 18:14.39 | lmorchard | I wonder if a generic HTTP file upload service would be too broad and troublesome, rather than specifically a Flickr upload service |
| 18:20.06 | tmzt | ajax.Post? |
| 18:20.08 | tmzt | or similar? |
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| 18:20.27 | lmorchard | No, ajax.post doesn't work |
| 18:20.51 | lmorchard | This would be a Java service that doesn't corrupt binary data on the way out the door |
| 18:27.06 | tmzt | geist: some OE developers have asked about the recipes being released, any possibility of that or is it waiting on a repo or other infrastructure first? |
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| 20:58.45 | Decimation_ | freakut: lol, why would that be? |
| 21:01.31 | Decimation_ | rwhitby, anyone: i cant find the ipkg service on the git, any assistance to give? |
| 21:02.26 | Decimation_ | nvm |
| 21:11.08 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
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| 21:32.56 | freakout | Decimation_ : he was cranky that Engadget didn't credit Precentral with the scoop ;) |
| 21:33.30 | Decimation_ | ouch, didnt notice |
| 21:33.40 | Decimation_ | in the tip, i said credit precentral |
| 21:33.44 | Decimation_ | but at the end i did the old |
| 21:33.49 | Decimation_ | - Mitchell R. |
| 21:33.56 | freakout | lol |
| 21:34.05 | freakout | i'd watch your ass :P |
| 21:34.09 | Decimation_ | :P |
| 21:37.05 | Decimation_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTjNInBA7JQ |
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| 21:37.21 | Decimation_ | smart guy right there, no sarcasm at all in my comment! |
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| 22:13.14 | Xyg | don't we all just *love* donate-ware |
| 22:13.37 | gkatsev | yes, that |
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| 23:08.06 | rwhitby | morning |
| 23:08.53 | gkatsev | rwhitby: morning. so, when you getting your pre? |
| 23:09.12 | rwhitby | gkatsev: bpadalino is looking at one today for me I believe. |
| 23:09.17 | gkatsev | cool |
| 23:10.05 | rwhitby | as for a GSM Pre in .au, things are looking bleak on that front: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 |
| 23:10.32 | rwhitby | So I'll have to import a GSM Pre from somewhere else in the world as well :-( |
| 23:12.24 | tmzt | but looking good for gsm Pre in general? |
| 23:12.25 | destinal1 | PuffTheMagic: pong |
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| 23:22.29 | mickeyl | gsm pre? |
| 23:22.35 | mickeyl | suddenly stops on the way to bed |
| 23:22.38 | mickeyl | ;) |
| 23:23.35 | Decimation_ | rwhitby: theres a pre for sale about a block away for 200 dollars |
| 23:24.01 | rwhitby | mickeyl: no word yet, but I'm getting a CDMA Pre sent to me. |
| 23:24.14 | tmzt | mickeyl: in the short term, it seems that the graphical process can be disabled with the gsm stack active |
| 23:24.18 | rwhitby | Decimation_: good or bad esn |
| 23:24.21 | Decimation_ | good |
| 23:24.22 | mickeyl | rwhitby: ok, fair enough. good for some first bits of RE |
| 23:24.38 | rwhitby | mickeyl: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 :-( |
| 23:24.43 | mickeyl | tmzt: oh, good. something like runlevel 3? |
| 23:24.48 | Decimation_ | rwhitby: said clean esn. |
| 23:25.01 | mickeyl | rwhitby: that kind of sucks, but you have enough friends around the world that can arrange a shipment |
| 23:25.02 | tmzt | mickeyl: somewhat, the phone stuff is a java process |
| 23:25.18 | Decimation_ | rwhitby: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html |
| 23:25.20 | tmzt | they use upstart though, not runlevels |
| 23:25.29 | rwhitby | mickeyl: yeah, the only concern is the hw build quality - hopefully that is all fixed before the GSM Pre. |
| 23:25.42 | mickeyl | (upstart) yeah. what i wanted to see in OE since years... |
| 23:25.52 | mickeyl | but alas no one interested and i can't do everything |
| 23:25.59 | mickeyl | mumbles |
| 23:26.00 | mickeyl | ;) |
| 23:26.22 | mickeyl | rwhitby: is that an issue on the cdma pre? |
| 23:26.28 | rwhitby | Decimation_: bpadalino is looking at one that includes a touchstone too |
| 23:26.30 | mickeyl | serious, i mean? |
| 23:26.42 | rwhitby | mickeyl: early on it was - I think it's all fixed now. |
| 23:27.20 | rwhitby | mickeyl: I'm a stickler for dead pixels though. |
| 23:27.32 | mickeyl | rwhitby: hehe |
| 23:27.36 | mickeyl | dead pixels suck |
| 23:27.41 | mickeyl | hot ones as well |
| 23:27.55 | mickeyl | never seen one in a PDA or phone though |
| 23:27.59 | mickeyl | must have been lucky |
| 23:28.13 | rwhitby | mickeyl: lots of reports of them early on for Pre. dunno about now. |
| 23:28.30 | Decimation_ | rwhitby: how much? |
| 23:28.41 | mickeyl | hmm, sounds like quality problems on the factory line |
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| 23:32.09 | destinal1 | does anyone know whether palm / sprint is swapping out for dead pixels, and do I risk ending up with worse? |
| 23:32.44 | rwhitby | mickeyl: my theory is there were not enough perfect phones in the first few batches, so they let nearly-good ones through, knowing that Sprint customers could just keep swapping them at no cost until they got a good one. |
| 23:33.06 | mickeyl | rwhitby: yes, manufacturers do that some times... |
| 23:33.10 | Templarian | destinal1: they swap for pixels. |
| 23:33.40 | Templarian | (first 30 days though, after that 100 deductable of course with insurance) |
| 23:34.17 | Xyg | 1 year warranty from Palm also |
| 23:34.35 | rwhitby | what's Palm's pixel policy? |
| 23:34.56 | Templarian | I think it should cover that it wouldn't cover damager though. |
| 23:35.05 | destinal1 | Templarian: since they can develop during the first year they either will swap for free on dead pixels or they won't |
| 23:35.13 | Xyg | I'm not sure about that, but Sprint replaced my SO's Pre with a failed power button at the 70 day mark |
| 23:35.39 | destinal1 | it shouldn't be a 30 days thing |
| 23:35.40 | Xyg | With chunks missing from the plastic due to her... clumsyness |
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| 23:40.11 | zsoc | quiet in here |
| 23:40.14 | mickeyl | g'night |
| 23:41.40 | Templarian | zsoc: that's because we just all quit talking right when you joined. |
| 23:45.00 | zsoc | Templarian, wouldn't be the first time :> |
| 23:52.05 | rwhitby | does the equivalent of a webos doctor on the emulator |
| 23:53.46 | bclancy | Decimation_: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html |
| 23:53.47 | bclancy | detroit metro craigslist > oakland co > for sale / wanted > cell phones |
| 23:53.50 | bclancy | This posting has been deleted by its author. |
| 23:53.52 | bclancy | (The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.) |
| 23:54.20 | Decimation_ | works fine for me |
| 23:54.35 | bclancy | OK then |
| 23:55.07 | Robi_ | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/palm-pixi-processor-chipset-specs-get-detailed-at-last/ |
| 23:56.31 | rwhitby | bclancy: wb |
| 23:57.12 | bclancy | rwhitby: ?? |
| 23:57.15 | Templarian | Robi_: welcome to the internet... your lag time is a bit off though. |
| 23:57.22 | rwhitby | bclancy: welcome back |
| 23:57.26 | bclancy | o |
| 23:58.43 | Robi_ | Templarian: tell that to the twitter news bot ;] |
