| 00:00.37 | bpadalino | hrm, you think so ? |
| 00:00.56 | bpadalino | i don't think many people - if any - are really working on video recording capabilities on the pre |
| 00:01.28 | jettero | I'm told it works fine, but no audio... |
| 00:02.11 | bpadalino | i heard about those .. moving picture shows - new fangled entertainment |
| 00:04.39 | jettero | yeah, my $40 samsung 520 took great video... |
| 00:04.52 | jettero | presumably the Pre will do video in a few months or a year, cuz wtf? |
| 00:05.19 | chrisa | I'm going to point out that the iphone lacked video support for two generations |
| 00:07.22 | jcrawford | someone knows where to get the 1.2 webos dro i know it :) |
| 00:07.32 | bpadalino | so we're in for a long wait - is that it ? |
| 00:07.40 | chrisa | I didn't say anything like that |
| 00:08.27 | bpadalino | so what you're saying is that when the pre does get video capabilities, it will also come with editing and automatic uploading capabilities too! |
| 00:08.31 | bpadalino | thanks chrisa!! :D |
| 00:08.49 | destinal | hehe |
| 00:08.55 | jcrawford | i heard video was coming with 1.2 |
| 00:09.13 | bpadalino | i heard 1.2 comes with unicorns and automatic rainbow generation |
| 00:09.13 | destinal | jcrawford: if that were true, the people already playing with 1.2 would have mentioned it |
| 00:09.41 | jcrawford | i just read something about it |
| 00:09.43 | chrisa | You're mistaking that leak as a final build |
| 00:09.44 | jcrawford | lemme find the link' |
| 00:09.46 | bpadalino | if it doesn't, i'll be soooo upset with palm .. i mean, what are they paying their devs to do?! |
| 00:13.15 | Eguy | 1.2 makes the battery last forever |
| 00:13.22 | Eguy | never needs to be charged again |
| 00:13.29 | jcrawford | haha |
| 00:16.11 | jcrawford | http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre/199417-bell-commercial-revealing-webos-1-2-a.html#post1837810 |
| 00:16.15 | jcrawford | that was what i read |
| 00:17.05 | bpadalino | heh, forward "test messages" |
| 00:17.06 | bpadalino | amusing |
| 00:18.21 | chrisa | People really shouldn't take what they see on the screen in commercials as any sort of feature list |
| 00:18.47 | chrisa | I mean, look at this comment " And it looks like they improved the gsensor, see how fast the map rotates. " |
| 00:19.28 | chrisa | and this same thread calls flash an "activex plugin" |
| 00:19.33 | chrisa | oye |
| 00:19.50 | bpadalino | they also say they heard because a rep told them ... i didn't realize sales turned into engineering as well |
| 00:24.37 | oil | well, my neighbors girlfriends roomates uncle works for palm, and he said... |
| 00:26.30 | *** join/#webos-internals dirs (n=dirs@189.115.4.225) |
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| 00:27.53 | box | heh |
| 00:37.43 | box | BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - Linux 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 |
| 01:03.23 | *** join/#webos-internals greg_roll (i=738108d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkgvnokrgvehwkwe) |
| 01:09.06 | zsoc | Decimation, I suppose the answer would be me. |
| 01:09.36 | zsoc | Decimation, video recording works. and a gentleman "cpcrook" wrote an app. Problem is there's no way to kill gstreamer (that we can figure) without making a service |
| 01:10.32 | zsoc | other problem is palmvideoencoder doesn't encode in a format you can play back on the pre (which is just odd). I fixed that with a few elements, but there's no way around it i can figure without installing those elements/gst-plugins |
| 01:10.47 | zsoc | doesn't timestamp, so has no idea how long ago that question was asked |
| 01:11.06 | bpadalino | pre can't play h264 ? |
| 01:11.38 | destinal | thought it did |
| 01:11.50 | bpadalino | there's a dsp plugin to play it, that's for sure |
| 01:12.18 | zsoc | even if you record them to /media/internal, the video player doesn't recognize them when you load it, no idea |
| 01:12.26 | bpadalino | weird |
| 01:12.31 | zsoc | included there's the 'palmvideoencoder' as well as an avi encoder, neither one gets recognized. |
| 01:12.36 | Xyg | Media formats supported |
| 01:12.37 | Xyg | Audio Formats: MP3, AAC, AAC+, AMR, QCELP, WAV |
| 01:12.39 | *** part/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@static-208-187-122-54.bbsc.net) |
| 01:12.39 | Xyg | Video Formats: MPEG-4, H.263, H.264 |
| 01:12.41 | Xyg | Image Formats: GIF, JPEG, PNG, BM |
| 01:13.07 | zsoc | I'll play with it again, honestly wasn't my first project. Honestly I have no idea what I'm doing, so someone with some gstreamer knowledge to work with would be nice ;) |
| 01:13.18 | Decimation | zsoc: make a service :) |
| 01:13.32 | zsoc | I should add, my pre plays ogg just fine, and flac/wma should be easy |
| 01:14.48 | zsoc | bpadalino, to add to your other jest from earier, "on phone encoding" should be relatively simple with the right app. Should be able to take almost any audio format and any video format to any other format, the tough part would be getting the a/v to sync right |
| 01:15.13 | zsoc | er, 'muxing', sorry. |
| 01:16.34 | zsoc | Decimation, I know not the first thing about services. I would love to work on it, but right now my priorities are 1.) find cpcrook 2.) get gstreamer building plugins that are compatible with the pre's native gst build 100% of the time |
| 01:16.59 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: is a service making machine :) talk to him. |
| 01:17.06 | ajames | zsoc: i'm working on that right now (the gst plugins) |
| 01:17.52 | zsoc | ajames, ah, then we're in the same boat, did you end up with 10.21? Because the only version I _cant_ get to build, before and after all work fine. 10.20 shows inconsistances with a few plugins (namely alsa based) |
| 01:18.42 | ajames | i'm building deps for it right now |
| 01:18.57 | ajames | how is .21's build dying? |
| 01:19.18 | ajames | guess i'll find out myself soon |
| 01:33.02 | *** join/#webos-internals RainMan (n=Who@66.212.183.225.tor.pathcom.com) |
| 01:49.45 | HattCzech | if i have this.var1 and this.var2 ... is there a way i can access them using an i=1 or i=2 ? like this.var(i) (or something similar)? |
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| 01:58.53 | Decimation | hmm, i noticed something new about 1.2 |
| 01:59.51 | zsoc | ? |
| 01:59.58 | Decimation | well |
| 02:00.01 | Decimation | when i restart luna |
| 02:00.16 | Decimation | i hear the notification sound like.. 10 seconds before it actually loads |
| 02:00.28 | zsoc | huh. |
| 02:00.37 | Decimation | like, i hear a notification sound for something on my phone, while its still on the palm loading screen |
| 02:00.56 | Decimation | so its like luna has loads, but the palm loading screen keeps showing for 10 more seconds |
| 02:01.12 | Decimation | so its as if they improved the luna load time, but kept the loading screen on for the same amount of time? |
| 02:01.23 | zsoc | That's what it sounds like lol |
| 02:01.28 | oil | lolol |
| 02:01.46 | Decimation | WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT TO ME |
| 02:01.46 | Decimation | lol |
| 02:01.49 | zsoc | lololololol <--- looks like a bunch of people in a crowd with their hands up. just noticed that |
| 02:02.03 | Decimation | ALL HAIL HITLARR |
| 02:02.05 | Decimation | :) |
| 02:02.10 | zsoc | lulz |
| 02:02.22 | destinal | zsoc: how'd you get ogg support working? I'm assuming that didn't come with it? |
| 02:02.39 | pen^2 | or a bunch of people pretending to be ancient egyptians |
| 02:03.27 | zsoc | destinal, uh.. ogg plugins come in one of the gst plugin packages.. also "working" was slightly inaccurate. it's not like i can open up my music app and start listening |
| 02:08.13 | *** join/#webos-internals Orion_PK (n=OrioNPK@c-75-72-37-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:08.46 | ajames | soon |
| 02:11.52 | zsoc | Yeah, ajames just fixed it 5 seconds ago. because he's awesome. |
| 02:16.27 | *** join/#webos-internals Orion_PK (n=OrioNPK@c-75-72-37-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:19.20 | ajames | just part of the gstreamer build |
| 02:20.02 | zsoc | hm? |
| 02:20.05 | DraX | zsoc: how do you play oggs then? :) |
| 02:20.14 | destinal | has /usr/lib/BrowserServerPlugins/GeolocationAdapter.so always been there? |
| 02:20.32 | zsoc | DraX, it's getting there. bother ajames, he's the one that'll actually make it functioning :) |
| 02:20.59 | ajames | bbqs chicken |
| 02:21.35 | zsoc | it would involve editing the music app i'd imagine. know nothing about the webos app side of things :) not yet atleast |
| 02:22.17 | DraX | man i want a pre :/ |
| 02:22.23 | *** join/#webos-internals Decimation_ (n=Decimati@d192-24-56-160.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 02:24.13 | zsoc | Yes, yes you do. EVERYONE WANTS A PRE. |
| 02:24.40 | DraX | this whole lack of gsm thing |
| 02:25.30 | *** join/#webos-internals GreedyB (n=blah@c-76-104-101-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 02:25.56 | destinal | hmm |
| 02:26.04 | destinal | what is tiopenmax? |
| 02:26.13 | destinal | # ipkg info tiopenmax |
| 02:26.40 | destinal | /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.AAC.decode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.AAC.encode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.MP3.decode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.WMA.decode.so etc |
| 02:27.10 | zsoc | That's on your pre? |
| 02:27.16 | DraX | probably related to the DSP in the processor |
| 02:27.20 | destinal | zsoc: yeah |
| 02:27.25 | destinal | DraX: and yes, yes it is. |
| 02:27.25 | ajames | libs for accelerated decoding via some dsp? |
| 02:27.35 | ajames | i'm shooting for tremor |
| 02:27.45 | zsoc | what he said |
| 02:28.27 | ajames | but it'd be great if someone had docs or links about the onboard dsp |
| 02:28.36 | ajames | something to think about for the future |
| 02:28.50 | DraX | if it's jjust the standard omap sp |
| 02:28.52 | DraX | dsp |
| 02:28.56 | DraX | it should be well documented, no? |
| 02:30.33 | *** join/#webos-internals AnOutsider (n=AnOutsid@c-68-39-119-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.47 | ajames | i would suppose |
| 02:32.08 | rwhitby | heh - good luck getting that doco without an NDA |
| 02:32.27 | ajames | that's what i'm concerned about |
| 02:32.36 | ajames | it might be out there, but then again... |
| 02:33.23 | zsoc | ah rod.. always killing our dreams with your accurate quips of truth |
| 02:33.23 | freakout | is worried he'll look stupid(er) for throwing this out there |
| 02:33.24 | ajames | i saw someone mention a 3d chip that's not being used |
| 02:33.27 | freakout | But: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/man_dsp.htm |
| 02:33.34 | ajames | anyone know if there's truth to that? |
| 02:33.59 | DraX | omap3430 is supposed to have a powervr gpu |
| 02:34.14 | DraX | or so says wikipedia |
| 02:34.17 | DraX | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP |
| 02:34.55 | freakout | The DSP is TMS320C64x+ , there's a few programming guides listed for it. |
| 02:35.01 | freakout | Don't know if that helps any. |
| 02:35.25 | freakout | Not free from the looks of it. |
| 02:35.27 | ajames | nice |
| 02:35.28 | ajames | thanks |
| 02:35.29 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 02:35.29 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.43 | zsoc | freakout, what did i tell you about being helpful? back in your hole! |
| 02:35.49 | rwhitby | Re: PowerVR: "1.4.2 SGX Register Description For more information about register descriptions, contact your TI representative. " |
| 02:35.49 | freakout | cowers |
| 02:36.10 | zsoc | looks in the phonebook for his TI representative |
| 02:36.41 | rwhitby | zsoc: that's code for "unless you're going to buy 1M+ units, don't bother" |
| 02:37.05 | zsoc | I was drawn to that assumption... ^_^ |
| 02:37.19 | DraX | is there a good pre news site (read: not precentral) |
| 02:37.24 | ajames | i know an engineer at ti, i'll ask him tomorrow |
| 02:37.36 | Eguy | hey freakout |
| 02:37.43 | zsoc | ajames, stop being amazing. and be in here more :P |
| 02:37.51 | freakout | hey Eguy |
| 02:37.57 | Eguy | How are ye |
| 02:38.22 | freakout | Irritated that I still can't access my PIC blog account |
| 02:38.35 | freakout | Getting ready to go for a 2.5km run |
| 02:38.43 | freakout | And I have a maddening itch on my lower left leg. |
| 02:41.12 | freakout | Oh. And I was just handed a sweet TARDIS t-shirt. |
| 02:41.35 | freakout | looks around, notices annoyed glances. Switches to webos-watercooler |
| 02:42.04 | zsoc | freakout, no one is annoyed, just remember it's all logged xD FOREVER. |
| 02:45.40 | freakout | DraX: Palm Infocenter, IMHO, is awesome. |
| 02:45.54 | freakout | DraX: Even if lately all it feels like we do is re-link Precentral stories and forum posts. |
| 02:46.10 | freakout | (disclosure: I write for it so am not impartial. :P ) |
| 02:46.17 | DraX | :) |
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| 03:09.33 | the_snowdog | has anyone successfully installed samba and written to /media/internal over the network? |
| 03:09.59 | the_snowdog | i am having a couple of hiccups following the wiki and need some help |
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| 03:14.46 | Rick_home | sorry the_snowdog that's pretty far out for most of us |
| 03:15.42 | the_snowdog | well in that case, anybody familiar with upstart scripts? |
| 03:16.46 | the_snowdog | aka, why an upstart script is failing to run? i've checked the syntax multiple times and it is similar to other scripts that are being run... |
| 03:19.35 | oil | just write mojo |
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| 03:24.19 | egaudet | write keyboard config and theme installer app |
| 03:24.23 | egaudet | :D |
| 03:26.32 | *** join/#webos-internals epv (n=eric@mexico.limpoc.com) |
| 03:26.36 | oil | which will all require a service, no? |
| 03:27.12 | oil | are the configs in /media/internal? |
| 03:27.17 | rwhitby | yep |
| 03:28.15 | oil | i could talk to jason about using the filemanager service |
| 03:28.55 | destinal | anyone here know pulseaudio at all? |
| 03:29.03 | egaudet | That's going to need a service? :( |
| 03:29.05 | epv | a little, destinal |
| 03:29.13 | egaudet | Mojo doesn't have any file management stuff huh |
| 03:29.18 | destinal | epv: so I'm working on getting sound in the emulator working |
| 03:29.24 | epv | cool |
| 03:29.27 | destinal | I've gotten it so paplay /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav makes sound |
| 03:29.40 | destinal | but paplay -d pringtones /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav is silent |
| 03:29.54 | oil | mojo can't read a simple text file |
| 03:30.05 | destinal | and I need the proper sinks to be working if luna is to make sound |
| 03:30.15 | oil | no local storage at all except sqlite and cookies |
| 03:30.16 | destinal | it shows up in pactl as a sync |
| 03:30.19 | egaudet | mojo can read an array of json's file |
| 03:30.25 | egaudet | can read text |
| 03:30.35 | rwhitby | oil: I reckon Jason would be up for that collaboration. |
| 03:30.54 | rwhitby | (the service of his is closed source, but he's willing to work with others at the API level) |
| 03:31.05 | oil | yeah |
| 03:31.05 | egaudet | palmGetResource() = read text file |
| 03:31.47 | epv | huh i wonder if it's a dummy sink in the emulator |
| 03:31.57 | oil | can it write? |
| 03:32.28 | egaudet | ok now you are asking for too much |
| 03:33.10 | oil | what good is a theme manager or config editor if it can't save anything |
| 03:34.24 | egaudet | well they can just use DB |
| 03:34.38 | egaudet | but getting theme into /media/internal/ I guess needs a service |
| 03:34.43 | destinal | epv: in /etc/pulse/system.pa load-module module-null-sink sink_name=pringtones |
| 03:35.07 | destinal | the pre has the same thing |
| 03:35.34 | oil | themes are images and a config file? |
| 03:35.37 | epv | i was thinking maybe change it to whatever the default sink is, just to see |
| 03:35.51 | destinal | epv: if I try playing over the default sink, it works |
| 03:35.58 | epv | the pre probably has some luna thing that redirects streams from the null sinks to something else? |
| 03:36.12 | egaudet | oil, yea |
| 03:36.27 | epv | i don't have a working emulator because i don't have a 32 bit box to put it on right now |
| 03:37.01 | oil | id have to be in com.palm.blarg to do file downloads to /media/internals |
| 03:37.06 | oil | (i havent looked at that much myself) |
| 03:37.13 | destinal | paplay -d pcm_output /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav or paplay /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav works |
| 03:37.33 | oil | and using the filemanager service it could read/write the config files |
| 03:37.35 | destinal | epv: emulator works on 64 bit operating systems |
| 03:37.42 | epv | it does now? huh cool |
| 03:37.47 | destinal | epv: always did |
| 03:37.51 | destinal | epv: what's your issue? |
| 03:37.51 | epv | really? |
| 03:37.52 | egaudet | I don't know if I want to use a closed-source service |
| 03:38.00 | oil | lol |
| 03:38.28 | epv | for some reason i thought it didn't work on 64 bit linux when it first came out |
| 03:38.46 | oil | egaudet: have another suggestion? |
| 03:38.53 | AnOutsider | if it's a quick read/write, why not just create a new service? |
| 03:38.58 | egaudet | We could package themes as ipkg |
| 03:39.08 | AnOutsider | granted it's prolly easier just using palm's builtin ish |
| 03:39.10 | oil | thats not a config editor though xD |
| 03:39.28 | egaudet | Config editor will be simple as database modifications |
| 03:39.36 | egaudet | And if we need more support we can write our own service |
| 03:39.40 | destinal | epv: people didn't know how to install novacom at first on 64 bit but --force-architecture and ia32-libs fixes it |
| 03:39.53 | epv | oh heh :) |
| 03:40.02 | epv | that's what i get for listening to the crap on precentral threads |
| 03:40.11 | oil | lolol |
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| 03:42.52 | destinal | epv: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Installing_novaterm_on_ubuntu_64-bit (it's not limited to ubuntu though) |
| 03:44.00 | epv | thanks |
| 03:44.02 | destinal | nice thing about amd64, it just runs ia32 code |
| 03:44.05 | rwhitby | egaudet: I suggest themes as ipkgs, and then a db to manage them. |
| 03:44.06 | epv | sure |
| 03:44.19 | egaudet | rwhitby, it is one way but I don't like it |
| 03:44.24 | epv | i didn't have any trouble with novacom, though |
| 03:44.42 | destinal | and vbox is vbox |
| 03:44.53 | rwhitby | egaudet: which bit don't you like? |
| 03:45.02 | destinal | the emulator image is just your average x86 linux vm |
| 03:45.25 | egaudet | I feel there will be a lot of theme creators that struggle with turning it into an ipkg, and it will be harder for users to manage their installed themes |
| 03:45.39 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@216.132.65.71) |
| 03:45.48 | destinal | sure you need the sun java jre for the palm-emulator command to work and talk to vbox, but that's universal also |
| 03:46.48 | destinal | epv: so how can I figure out how these null sinks are routed? |
| 03:47.02 | epv | i was just trying to figure that out. |
| 03:47.29 | rwhitby | egaudet: talk to AnOutsider about adding keyboard theme ipkg creationg functionality to his site. |
| 03:47.51 | rwhitby | egaudet: http://www.prethemer.com/ |
| 03:48.31 | rwhitby | (when it's done) you just upload images and it creates the ipkg, including postinst and prerm scripts. |
| 03:49.27 | egaudet | Hmmm |
| 03:49.27 | rwhitby | then we create a Keyboard Themes category in Preware and people just use Preware to install and uninstall the themes that the configure app can choose between. |
| 03:49.42 | rwhitby | just an idea ... |
| 03:50.18 | egaudet | can we easily modify database from postinst script |
| 03:50.47 | epv | there is a remap-sink module, which mihgt be useful |
| 03:50.50 | epv | http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Modules#module-remap-sink |
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| 03:51.59 | rwhitby | egaudet: dunno. |
| 03:52.21 | rwhitby | egaudet: you should be able to run sqlite3 command line from postinst |
| 03:53.30 | egaudet | I guess the postinst/prerm then could add/remove available themes in the db |
| 03:53.43 | destinal | epv: it's got to be possible without compiling new modules, doesn't it? |
| 03:54.38 | rwhitby | egaudet: so the last one installed is activated by default, and you can change the config using the app if you want. |
| 03:55.08 | epv | aw, crappy, it's not built :( |
| 03:55.21 | rwhitby | egaudet: you could even package up the app with the patch, like we do for ipkgservice and the secure informed user consent stuff |
| 03:55.41 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 03:55.48 | egaudet | That's what I was thinking, since the patch isn't an app itself |
| 03:56.47 | *** part/#webos-internals ameng (n=fm@124.42.107.194) |
| 03:56.59 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng (n=fm@124.42.107.194) |
| 03:58.33 | oil | the problem with including hte patch with the app |
| 03:58.44 | oil | would be someone orange-tap-remove the app |
| 03:58.54 | oil | that would list it as not-installed, right? |
| 03:59.00 | oil | no prerem for the ipk |
| 03:59.58 | destinal | in alsa config # create nullvirtual devices, alsa clients attched here will be re-routed according to policy by the pulseaudio plug-in module-route-streams |
| 04:00.47 | destinal | but it looks like they don't use module-route-streams, but rather module-palm-policy.so |
| 04:00.57 | epv | that's unfortunate. |
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| 04:04.19 | epv | oh btw webos 1.1 and 1.2 seem to have the same kernel |
| 04:04.38 | epv | the 1.2 wifi module loads in 1.1 (and has Adhoc mode disabled) |
| 04:04.47 | epv | so i suppose the 1.1 one will load in 1.2, also |
| 04:05.14 | destinal | epv: ah, good to know |
| 04:05.23 | destinal | epv: so they went out of their way to disable that? wow |
| 04:05.35 | epv | and it is indeed the sd8xxx.ko module that disallows adhoc mode |
| 04:05.46 | epv | yeah. no change in the wifi tools or anything else |
| 04:06.04 | destinal | just a huge reminder for everyone to snag a doctor image now while you can :) |
| 04:06.06 | ameng | destinal: see my message? |
| 04:06.08 | epv | heh yeah |
| 04:06.23 | epv | of course it won't help when a new kernel comes out, though i guess we can build our own |
| 04:06.54 | destinal | well, eventually we need to get an open source driver going for that chipset, I've heard there are some in new kernels |
| 04:07.10 | epv | has anyone looked into whether there's open source support for the device? i don't care about adhoc mode but packet injection and monitor mode would kick ass |
| 04:07.43 | destinal | ameng: yeah, got it. I'll look at what you sent here in a sec |
| 04:08.17 | ameng | i sent that last weekend |
| 04:08.27 | Rick_home | ameng -- how close are you to having something you can show the rest of us? We've been seeing you chatting with destinal and we're excited. |
| 04:08.51 | ameng | very soon i think |
| 04:09.18 | ameng | will hook the project to webos-internals.org |
| 04:09.53 | Rick_home | really looking forward to it. |
| 04:10.31 | Rick_home | not that I can USE it you understand, but it's exciting that we will have a platform to build binary stuff onto. |
| 04:12.02 | Rick_home | ameng I'm not a person who even tries to program down in the depths of the os where you are operating, but do I understand correctly that what you're doing is providing a sort of an interface to a standard graphics library which can then render in webOS at binary speed? |
| 04:12.30 | epv | it's nice they at least used wireless-extensions isntead of some wack proprietary interface |
| 04:12.32 | ameng | now it runs in the way that it can run dfb program with out modification in a seperate process. the graphics part runs well with luna. i now work on input driver |
| 04:13.00 | epv | oh wow, that's pretty neat |
| 04:13.18 | Rick_home | so now you're trying to take screen touches and pass them to dfb programs as mouse movements???? |
| 04:13.29 | ameng | yeah |
| 04:13.34 | Rick_home | gosh |
| 04:13.51 | ameng | i actually wrote a drive . now testing it |
| 04:14.00 | ameng | driver |
| 04:14.15 | destinal | Rick_home: see? ameng is doing cool stuff :) |
| 04:14.46 | Rick_home | If he's that close to having input TOO instead of using the complex pass-through techniques that classic used, I'm amazed. |
| 04:15.13 | ameng | my first goal is run dfbterm, next will run gtk program |
| 04:15.14 | *** join/#webos-internals theo (n=theo@cpe-65-189-49-223.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 04:15.16 | epv | oh there's a marvell 8686 driver in 2.6.28 it looks like |
| 04:15.46 | Rick_home | if you can run a gtk program that opens up a world of stuff. |
| 04:16.14 | epv | x windows. heh |
| 04:16.38 | ameng | sure theoretically it can, cause gtk can be based on directfb |
| 04:16.59 | ameng | this is why i ported dfb to luna |
| 04:19.50 | egaudet | oil, wouldn't that be an issue whether the app is with the patch or not? |
| 04:20.26 | oil | egaudet: but the patch doesn't have an icon that can be orange-taped, right? |
| 04:20.39 | oil | i mean, i dont even know if its a problem |
| 04:20.46 | oil | that was just me thinking out loud |
| 04:20.54 | egaudet | oh right |
| 04:21.49 | Rick_home | eboard. pychess. both are straight gtk apps. |
| 04:22.41 | Rick_home | I've been beating my head trying to port the one-and-only javascript FICS client to mojo. The thing is so Internet Exploder specific I think my head is turning to mush. If we could just run eboard of pychess, then we're DONE. that would be nice. |
| 04:23.16 | egaudet | If it gets orange-tap deleted, that means the app directory gets removed from /var/..? So preware will see it as uninstalled? |
| 04:23.39 | Rick_home | epv wouldn't x be kinda heavy for this processor? Even with a -very- light screen manager ? |
| 04:23.47 | Rick_home | I mean that would be cool and all, but uh |
| 04:24.01 | epv | sure, but it's still fun :) |
| 04:24.21 | Rick_home | I have _got_ to get a cross-compiling tool chain set up |
| 04:24.23 | Rick_home | :-( |
| 04:24.42 | destinal | Rick_home: or just start compiling on your pre :) |
| 04:24.45 | epv | actually the dfb x serve rprobably isn't too bad. you could run windowless things or whatever, i guess |
| 04:24.49 | oil | egaudet: thats what im thinking |
| 04:25.46 | destinal | Rick_home: or start with building stuff for your emulator to experiment with |
| 04:25.51 | egaudet | I'll check it out, but if that's the case then definitely can't put them together |
| 04:25.57 | destinal | since that's just standard gcc on ubuntu or whatever |
| 04:26.36 | Rick_home | destinal: ameng is the dfb going to work on the emulator TOO !?!?!?!?! |
| 04:26.39 | oil | egaudet: if i install a normal app from preware, then orange-tap it, it shows in preware as uninstalled |
| 04:26.55 | destinal | Rick_home: of course, the emulator is where it's being developed for ease :) |
| 04:27.06 | Rick_home | good god |
| 04:27.38 | egaudet | oil, do you know if prerm gets run? |
| 04:27.49 | oil | i dont |
| 04:27.52 | oil | but i would doubt it |
| 04:29.21 | Rick_home | ameng I'll leave you alone so you can go back to flipping bits. But several of us are very anxious to see what you've got. |
| 04:29.23 | *** join/#webos-internals EvanDotPro (i=Evan@ip72-201-115-158.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:29.23 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v EvanDotPro] by ChanServ |
| 04:29.29 | egaudet | yea you are probably right, I don't think any of the palm apps have the postinst/prerm scripts. So forget that, keyboard can never have a visible icon |
| 04:29.40 | Rick_home | If you would be willing to release a demo WITHOUT input, I would be excited to see it ./ |
| 04:30.21 | oil | is with rick |
| 04:31.21 | Rick_home | ameng I know some people are reluctant to have the world look over their shoulder... but if you would consider a pre-alpha peek, a bunch of us would be greatful :-) |
| 04:31.36 | destinal | ~seen mrvc |
| 04:31.37 | infobot | mrvc <n=vaughn@c-67-191-184-192.hsd1.ga.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 22d 1h 20m 55s ago, saying: 'Zuchmir2: hmm... don't know'. |
| 04:31.56 | oil | lol |
| 04:32.02 | oil | long time |
| 04:32.05 | Rick_home | des, that's kinda sad. |
| 04:32.23 | Rick_home | wonder what happened. He worked so hard on the early releases of terminal. |
| 04:32.56 | epv | is that the guy who gave me shit for asking how many commits back something stopped working? |
| 04:32.57 | epv | heh |
| 04:33.26 | destinal | Rick_home: basically terminal wouldn't exist in its current form without mrvc |
| 04:33.53 | destinal | so yeah, I hope he's doing ok and comes back sometime |
| 04:34.24 | HattCzech | anyone know what "period" is for in the com.palm.vibrate service request? |
| 04:34.44 | destinal | epv: ah, yeah, I still think when you pointed that out that we had a huge performance regression and worked around it by compiler optimizations |
| 04:35.14 | Rick_home | if you say for it to vibrate for x ms, period is how frequently it should do that buzz for 250 ms every 2000 ms |
| 04:35.19 | Rick_home | but I don't think it works.... |
| 04:35.27 | destinal | epv: I think it still needs looked into but at this point I wonder if directfb term will give terminal a run for its money soon |
| 04:35.33 | epv | oh that was a different thing, thouhg.. the thing i was asking about was something totally trivial like i think rotation no longer causing SIGWINCH |
| 04:35.52 | HattCzech | Rick_home: that's what i thought, but with testing, it appears to not work like that :0 |
| 04:36.11 | epv | dest: possibly, but it'd still call for a bunch of work like coping with the pre's keyboard, etc |
| 04:36.23 | destinal | true |
| 04:36.25 | HattCzech | if only it did work, that would be nice |
| 04:37.10 | Rick_home | HattCzech: that's what I said, it doesn't work. |
| 04:37.25 | HattCzech | yeah, sorry, i was just confirming that |
| 04:37.59 | HattCzech | if i have this.var1 and this.var2 ... is there a way i can access them using an i=1 or i=2 ? like this.var(i) (or something similar)? |
| 04:38.20 | Rick_home | HattCzech: no |
| 04:38.26 | Rick_home | well |
| 04:38.28 | Rick_home | that's not true |
| 04:38.35 | Rick_home | but again, the solution is evil |
| 04:38.38 | epv | haha |
| 04:38.39 | Rick_home | why not use an array? |
| 04:38.39 | HattCzech | ahhh |
| 04:38.54 | HattCzech | because i've got it setup like an object, and the names vary |
| 04:38.58 | Rick_home | this.var[1] this.var[2] |
| 04:39.00 | Rick_home | etc |
| 04:39.16 | Rick_home | note that in javascript arrays do not have to be declared and arrays may be sparse |
| 04:39.40 | Rick_home | so you can create this.var[24] and this.var[176] and have those be the only two and it's ok |
| 04:40.02 | HattCzech | well, i'm trying to make it work with preferences, and i may switch it... |
| 04:40.22 | HattCzech | but currently, it's settings.enabled = true, settings.something = test |
| 04:40.36 | HattCzech | and i want to be able to access those based on a parameter name |
| 04:40.42 | Rick_home | but if you really REALLY want to do what you said (ick ick shudder shudder shudder) You could eval("this.var" + "x") where x is 1 or 2 or whatever |
| 04:40.54 | destinal | AAGHJHGW |
| 04:41.04 | HattCzech | i looked at eval, but that seems to work mostly with numbers |
| 04:41.04 | Rick_home | right destinal |
| 04:41.14 | Rick_home | oh no HattCzech eval works with anything |
| 04:41.17 | Rick_home | but please |
| 04:41.24 | Rick_home | don't go there. Don't go to the dark side. |
| 04:41.27 | HattCzech | hahah, sounds like i should avoid it |
| 04:41.28 | Rick_home | eval is evil |
| 04:41.32 | HattCzech | lol okay |
| 04:42.01 | Rick_home | uh |
| 04:42.27 | Rick_home | HattCzech: you have settings.enabled = true and settings.frog = green and settings.dog = bark |
| 04:42.41 | HattCzech | yeah |
| 04:42.49 | Rick_home | and why do you have dog or frog and not settings.dog or settings.frog ? |
| 04:42.52 | DraX | this['var2'] ? |
| 04:42.58 | DraX | or am i not seeing what you want to do? |
| 04:43.04 | Rick_home | drax that's perfectly valid. |
| 04:43.07 | rwhitby | egaudet: yeah, orange tap means no visible app for any advanced homebrew |
| 04:43.10 | DraX | this['var'+x] |
| 04:43.22 | Rick_home | uhhhhhh |
| 04:43.31 | Rick_home | uhhhhhhh |
| 04:43.33 | destinal | rwhitby: orange tap means no visible app? |
| 04:43.51 | DraX | yeah |
| 04:43.52 | destinal | fails to parse |
| 04:43.56 | DraX | if you have var1 and var2 |
| 04:44.06 | Rick_home | drax, I don't think that works. |
| 04:44.06 | DraX | you can do like this['var'+x] where x is 1 or 2 |
| 04:44.11 | DraX | it does |
| 04:44.13 | HattCzech | Rick_home: i would have settings.dog and settings.frog and settings.enabled... i think i'm missing what you're asking |
| 04:44.20 | Rick_home | really? Wow. |
| 04:44.21 | oil | destinal: if an app that has a visible icon and postinst/prerem scripts |
| 04:44.30 | oil | it can be orange-tap removed from the launcher |
| 04:44.30 | destinal | oh oh |
| 04:44.32 | oil | without running prerem |
| 04:44.50 | DraX | http://fbdc06f6671404c8.paste.se/ |
| 04:44.59 | Rick_home | drax if I have done this.var1 = "123" |
| 04:45.01 | DraX | subscript and dot notation are both valid for object access in javascript |
| 04:45.16 | DraX | see the paste for an example using spidermonkey |
| 04:45.21 | Rick_home | wow |
| 04:45.27 | DraX | also |
| 04:45.27 | Rick_home | well, learn something new every day |
| 04:45.35 | DraX | a[1] == a['1'] |
| 04:45.39 | Rick_home | thanks. That may come in handy. |
| 04:45.43 | DraX | a[1] is just sugar |
| 04:45.44 | Rick_home | yes, I knew that. |
| 04:45.45 | HattCzech | DraX: that's awesome... and exactly what i needed |
| 04:45.56 | DraX | HattCzech: :) |
| 04:46.12 | HattCzech | is that still considered the "dark side"? :) |
| 04:46.17 | DraX | not at all |
| 04:46.28 | HattCzech | *taps fingers* excellent... |
| 04:46.33 | Rick_home | DraX: but a['frog'] works fine? |
| 04:46.37 | DraX | Rick_home: yes |
| 04:46.49 | Rick_home | and it is an OBJECT same as a.frog not an array element? |
| 04:46.50 | DraX | Rick_home: well it'd return undefned in the context i gave in the paste ;) |
| 04:46.58 | DraX | right |
| 04:47.02 | DraX | you can also do |
| 04:47.05 | DraX | a['length'] |
| 04:47.12 | DraX | where a instanceof array |
| 04:47.22 | Rick_home | well well well.... |
| 04:47.29 | *** part/#webos-internals theo (n=theo@cpe-65-189-49-223.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 04:47.31 | destinal | another way javascript is cool |
| 04:47.33 | destinal | yay |
| 04:47.37 | rwhitby | destinal: the ability for a user to orange tap an app, and have it removed without running a prerm script, means that any service, plugin, patch etc which needs a prerm script cannot have a visible app bundled in the same ipkg. |
| 04:47.41 | Rick_home | somehow, in all the years I've written JS I never knew that. |
| 04:47.43 | DraX | i really like it, it takes some getting used to though |
| 04:47.49 | Rick_home | no kidding. |
| 04:48.06 | DraX | in python i have to have special reflection functions to do the same thing |
| 04:48.08 | Rick_home | so a.length() is the same as a['length'] |
| 04:48.10 | DraX | (or cheat and use __dict__) |
| 04:48.11 | Rick_home | weird. |
| 04:48.11 | destinal | rwhitby: well we should be doing them with dependencies anyway |
| 04:48.21 | DraX | Rick_home: a.length() is the same as a['length']() |
| 04:48.28 | DraX | Rick_home: a.length is the same as a['length'] |
| 04:48.37 | Rick_home | ahhhhhhhh |
| 04:48.39 | rwhitby | destinal: right |
| 04:49.00 | Rick_home | the former returning the length of the array and the latter returning some weird value stored in that object. |
| 04:49.15 | DraX | no |
| 04:49.17 | *** join/#webos-internals StoneRyno (i=4cf8c07b@gateway/web/freenode/x-kpexthlpqsgqzvue) |
| 04:49.18 | Rick_home | no? |
| 04:49.20 | DraX | they'd both return the length |
| 04:49.35 | DraX | js> var b = [1,2,3] |
| 04:49.35 | DraX | js> b.length |
| 04:49.35 | DraX | 3 |
| 04:49.35 | DraX | js> b['length'] |
| 04:49.38 | DraX | 3 |
| 04:49.40 | destinal | we avoided that whole problem with terminal / termplugin for instance by just separating it into two packages, though I think we did that for another reason altogether (the architecture thing) |
| 04:49.42 | DraX | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.43 | Rick_home | so, from a programmers perspective they're the same , which is what I said. |
| 04:49.53 | DraX | they are exactly the same |
| 04:49.55 | DraX | no difference at all |
| 04:50.04 | StoneRyno | I'm reviewing the accessing linux page and in the procedure it appears to have some points that are obsolete or more complicated then thay have to be........ |
| 04:50.06 | DraX | they both internally call [[Get]] |
| 04:50.25 | DraX | according to 262 at least |
| 04:50.38 | Rick_home | StoneRyno: like what? and can you fix it? |
| 04:51.00 | HattCzech | weird... i just tried it with the () and it didn't work (for the length) |
| 04:51.02 | StoneRyno | I'm working on it just want to consult on the changes before doing so |
| 04:51.17 | DraX | length is not a function |
| 04:51.23 | DraX | those you can't do [[Call]] on it |
| 04:51.25 | DraX | thus |
| 04:51.42 | Rick_home | right |
| 04:51.44 | HattCzech | i did it on a string |
| 04:51.53 | Rick_home | length is a property. of an array. |
| 04:52.06 | StoneRyno | this segment isn't needed: If you are using 32 bit Windows XP or Vista there is a novaterm program at the following address: [http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.zip novaterm1.zip] Download it and unzip it into the sdk/bin directory. Then, just like the Mac and Linux users you can just type '''novaterm'''. |
| 04:52.17 | HattCzech | test = "user"; test["length"] worked |
| 04:52.20 | DraX | i mean, toString is a property too, just one that happens to be a function. :) |
| 04:52.31 | Rick_home | StoneRyno: you're suggesting that they just use novacom ? |
| 04:52.43 | Rick_home | or has novaterm gotten into the latest windows sdk? |
| 04:52.44 | destinal | StoneRyno: novaterm > novacom open |
| 04:53.10 | Rick_home | novaterm is MUCH NICER than using novacom -t /open:tty |
| 04:53.25 | Rick_home | probebly mis-typed that |
| 04:53.27 | oil | hey, its StoneRyno, the guy who thinks there should only be 1 installer |
| 04:53.30 | oil | xD |
| 04:53.32 | StoneRyno | I am using 32bit XP and can simply type novacom -t open tty:// to get to root castle |
| 04:53.42 | Rick_home | yes StoneRyno true |
| 04:53.45 | Rick_home | very true |
| 04:53.48 | destinal | StoneRyno: yes, but try using vi .. ;) |
| 04:53.56 | Rick_home | but novaterm has advantages over novacom |
| 04:54.18 | Rick_home | you CAN just use it, but if you download novaterm yuou get a full blown terminal for future use. |
| 04:54.24 | StoneRyno | ok I'm just trying to help clear things up a bit since there have been several threads started about how confusing the procedure is |
| 04:54.27 | destinal | even copy and paste people have trouble with in cmd novacom |
| 04:54.48 | destinal | StoneRyno: it's confusing to download and run a program? |
| 04:54.59 | Rick_home | we would dump novacom altogether and go with novaterm 100% if it worked on 64 bit windows, but it doesn't |
| 04:55.07 | StoneRyno | so I was trying to see what I could do to make it more clear or easier to follow |
| 04:55.07 | Rick_home | I have source, but no one has come forward to work on it. |
| 04:55.46 | StoneRyno | which is why I wanted to consult before making any major changes |
| 04:56.27 | Rick_home | StoneRyno: would you be willing to simply put that paragraph into a "sidebar box" indented in a different color perhaps, and tag it with "for advanced users" or are you suggesting a LINK to that paragraph somewhere. ??? |
| 04:56.52 | Rick_home | typography can cover many sins |
| 04:58.45 | StoneRyno | ok so novaterm is an alternative to putty? where as novacom is just for simple stuff to get you to using either of those? |
| 04:59.33 | rwhitby | oil: ok, I think I've got an atomic way to restart LunaSysMgr. |
| 04:59.56 | oil | is about to submit dotgame to palm |
| 05:00.22 | rwhitby | oil: "killall -HUP LunaSysMgr" |
| 05:04.26 | StoneRyno | I think basically those who have gotten confused didn't know what to do with certain parts of the instructions |
| 05:05.08 | destinal | StoneRyno: novaterm is *like* putty but over novacom's protocol to the novacom daemon |
| 05:05.12 | freakout | oil, going to charge? |
| 05:05.35 | freakout | I'd pay $1 |
| 05:05.37 | StoneRyno | I'm adding a bullet point about palm-install since it is used for installing package files and most likely will only be used if you are testing your own app or one for someone who gave you a package file right? |
| 05:06.00 | rwhitby | oil: still working on restartjavaserviceboot |
| 05:06.04 | destinal | StoneRyno: and yeah novacom open tty (etc) can allow you to do simple thing easily without downloads |
| 05:06.46 | destinal | StoneRyno: but it lacks proper terminal controls (like vt100 emulation, etc) so you can basically only do one command line at a time type stuff, and you can't copy and paste |
| 05:06.55 | Rick_home | StoneRyno: these days would it make more sense to dump palm-install and poit to webos quick install instead even for ipks? |
| 05:07.06 | destinal | well you can, through cmd.exe's mark, copy mark, paste but it's awkward |
| 05:07.31 | rwhitby | palm-install won't work for advanced homebrew, for instance. |
| 05:08.00 | Rick_home | exactly so why use it at all. |
| 05:08.04 | Rick_home | get them started right |
| 05:08.21 | Rick_home | and it's cross platform so we don't have windows-and mac and linux versions of the instructions |
| 05:08.22 | destinal | well quick install requires a 200 > megabyte < doctor download, right? |
| 05:08.29 | Rick_home | nodnod |
| 05:08.31 | StoneRyno | I was thinking we could add a bullet point about using quick install and loading preware etc for installing released homebrew stuff |
| 05:08.38 | destinal | but I guess that's no big deal for people in the modern world |
| 05:08.48 | destinal | :P |
| 05:08.51 | epv | haha |
| 05:08.52 | rwhitby | destinal: which they need handy anyway if they are preparing properly for homebrew ... ;-) |
| 05:09.00 | destinal | hehe, good point |
| 05:09.41 | HattCzech | DraX: you still around? |
| 05:10.00 | DraX | HattCzech: yes |
| 05:10.25 | HattCzech | if this["test"] returns an array... how do i access an element in the array? |
| 05:10.27 | epv | why does webos quick install need a copy of the webos doctor .jar? |
| 05:10.36 | DraX | HattCzech: this['test'][0] |
| 05:10.38 | destinal | epv: for the java classes to talk to novacom |
| 05:10.42 | epv | ohh |
| 05:10.56 | DraX | HattCzech: or var arr = this['test']; arr[0]; |
| 05:11.00 | epv | oh its just a java frontend for the novacom install stuff? |
| 05:11.03 | epv | i havne't tried it yet. |
| 05:11.25 | HattCzech | i tried that... it may be that i'm trying this['list'+var] and trying to get that to work |
| 05:11.34 | destinal | epv: well it uses the classes to do normal installs and a lot more |
| 05:11.42 | DraX | HattCzech: could be that the variable isn't defined |
| 05:11.47 | DraX | if not you'll get undefined returned |
| 05:11.54 | DraX | and then when you try to subscript undefined you'll get an exception |
| 05:12.25 | DraX | try ('list'+var in this) |
| 05:12.32 | destinal | epv: quick install can apply a lot of small patches it calls "tweaks" |
| 05:12.36 | DraX | will tell you if that property actually exists |
| 05:12.39 | epv | i see |
| 05:12.41 | destinal | epv: and it can install from feeds like ours |
| 05:12.45 | epv | ok. |
| 05:12.48 | destinal | including postinst / prerm |
| 05:12.49 | HattCzech | i'm getting the actual name... so var="Users" and ... ['list'+var] gives me 'listUsers' |
| 05:13.02 | HattCzech | and listUsers is defined and i'm trying to access it (that's the array) |
| 05:13.04 | DraX | is listUsers a function? |
| 05:13.18 | HattCzech | it's an array |
| 05:13.32 | DraX | are you sure? |
| 05:13.57 | HattCzech | var listUsers = ["test1", "test2", "test3"]; |
| 05:14.16 | DraX | can i get a bit more context please? |
| 05:14.21 | DraX | a snippit of the code would help |
| 05:14.37 | HattCzech | sure... one sec |
| 05:15.14 | rwhitby | oil: looks like "killall java" is the solution for atomically restarting java-serviceboot ... |
| 05:15.31 | DraX | there is only one situation where you'd be able to access listUsers with this |
| 05:15.34 | rwhitby | can someone with a real Pre confirm there is only one java process running? |
| 05:15.35 | DraX | given how you define it |
| 05:15.41 | HattCzech | http://webos.pastebin.com/d3d4aa385 |
| 05:15.44 | DraX | so I need to see the code to see what kind of scoping situation you're in |
| 05:15.58 | HattCzech | this is just for me testing |
| 05:16.12 | DraX | document.write(['list'+key]); |
| 05:16.20 | DraX | you tried with this[...] right? |
| 05:16.22 | oil | document.write? |
| 05:16.42 | HattCzech | i didn't try with this |
| 05:16.49 | DraX | HattCzech: you need to use this |
| 05:16.50 | HattCzech | wow |
| 05:16.52 | HattCzech | simple |
| 05:16.57 | HattCzech | hahaha |
| 05:17.12 | DraX | ['list'+key] declares a single item array |
| 05:18.31 | egaudet | rwhitby, yea |
| 05:19.35 | egaudet | root@castle:/# ps -ef | grep java | wc -l |
| 05:19.35 | egaudet | 1 |
| 05:19.39 | StoneRyno | Is there instructions on the wiki for setting up putty for someone who just installed the SDK and wants to use putty to access linux? |
| 05:20.05 | DraX | HattCzech: basically it's some_object[index] or some_object.index |
| 05:20.16 | HattCzech | okay |
| 05:20.54 | DraX | HattCzech: this is a special object that refers to the current context. If you're not in an object or didn't using Function.{apply,call} it's probably going to be a diference to the global object |
| 05:21.00 | HattCzech | StoneRyno: i'm not sure, but to connect, it's localhost on port 5522 |
| 05:21.01 | StoneRyno | i used the old method of novaproxy and setup for wifi access so I haven't looked at how the newer ways work exactly |
| 05:21.26 | DraX | since var listUsers is not in a function, it's being defined in the global object |
| 05:21.38 | DraX | so, coincidentally you can access it via this |
| 05:21.46 | HattCzech | hmmm, intereting |
| 05:21.51 | DraX | usually you'll want to put something like that in a actual object like var obj = {}; obj.xxx = 1; |
| 05:21.52 | HattCzech | interesting* even |
| 05:21.57 | DraX | and then do obj['xxx'] |
| 05:22.20 | HattCzech | can i do the reverse of that? |
| 05:22.29 | DraX | HattCzech: what do you mean? |
| 05:22.36 | HattCzech | obj[xxx] = value ? |
| 05:22.39 | DraX | yes |
| 05:22.43 | HattCzech | okay good |
| 05:22.58 | psykoz | so has anyone else with preware 0.8.5 had this issue? M "Available patches" option is greyed out |
| 05:23.03 | psykoz | s/M/My/ |
| 05:24.31 | HattCzech | yup |
| 05:24.56 | oil | do you have the virtual keyboard installed? |
| 05:25.00 | psykoz | I do |
| 05:25.05 | oil | then its working great |
| 05:25.15 | oil | it defaults to not display installed packages as available |
| 05:25.17 | DraX | HattCzech: the book that jon resig is working on right now (secrets of a javascript ninja) talks about a lot of that aspect of js in detail |
| 05:25.21 | psykoz | Oh, so if I uninstall that, it will show "1" is available, correct? |
| 05:25.22 | oil | but you can change it in the preferences page |
| 05:25.27 | oil | right |
| 05:25.33 | psykoz | Wow, nice ;) |
| 05:25.34 | oil | you can find it in the installed list |
| 05:25.37 | oil | or in the everything list |
| 05:25.39 | psykoz | I felt like I broked something <grins> |
| 05:25.43 | oil | no |
| 05:26.15 | HattCzech | DraX: cool, thanks for the help |
| 05:26.54 | DraX | HattCzech: np happy to help |
| 05:27.42 | epv | rwhitby: yes, only one java process |
| 05:28.03 | DraX | man i hope server-side js catches on |
| 05:28.32 | epv | <-- builds pre kernel for fun |
| 05:28.51 | epv | plus bridging and vlan modules. whee |
| 05:31.46 | HattCzech | DraX: since you seem pretty good with nifty tricks... is there a way to store a variable like var = value1 || value2 (where value1 is undefined, it'll take on value2)? |
| 05:31.47 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:32.01 | egaudet | yes Hatt |
| 05:32.07 | egaudet | exactly like that |
| 05:32.10 | HattCzech | rick said that there is a messy way to do it, but it shouldn't be used |
| 05:32.18 | DraX | HattCzech: right, x = x || 1; |
| 05:32.23 | HattCzech | when i tried that, it errored |
| 05:32.39 | HattCzech | let me try it again... |
| 05:32.40 | DraX | it's var x = value1 || value2; |
| 05:32.43 | DraX | you need the variable name |
| 05:33.02 | DraX | there is also ternary conditional expressions |
| 05:33.08 | DraX | (condition) ? true : false; |
| 05:33.12 | DraX | if you need to do something more fancy |
| 05:35.27 | epv | wow javascript has that? cool |
| 05:35.32 | HattCzech | will it work on undefined? |
| 05:35.42 | DraX | yes undefined is fasly |
| 05:35.44 | DraX | falsy |
| 05:36.01 | HattCzech | does order matter? |
| 05:36.02 | DraX | so is 0 |
| 05:36.18 | DraX | err |
| 05:36.23 | DraX | in what context? |
| 05:36.47 | HattCzech | i have sound.enabled = this.soundOn || this.user.options.sound.enabled |
| 05:36.51 | HattCzech | and it doesn't seem to work |
| 05:37.11 | DraX | is sound defined? |
| 05:37.18 | HattCzech | yes |
| 05:37.22 | egaudet | is soundOn |
| 05:37.31 | HattCzech | not necessarily |
| 05:37.47 | egaudet | well then all of this.user.options.sound.enabled has to be |
| 05:37.56 | egaudet | when soundOn isn't |
| 05:38.10 | DraX | yeah |
| 05:38.18 | HattCzech | this.user.options.sound.enabled is defined |
| 05:38.35 | egaudet | what error are you getting? |
| 05:39.18 | HattCzech | not an error, but it doesn't store the variable... i'm adding logging to check it |
| 05:39.54 | egaudet | pastebin |
| 05:39.57 | HattCzech | ahhh okay, i'm an idiot |
| 05:40.06 | HattCzech | it's WORKING, just not the way i want it to |
| 05:40.53 | HattCzech | ok, so i want it to use soundOn IF AND ONLY IF it exists, otherwise, use user.options.sound.enabled |
| 05:40.59 | egaudet | a=b||c is the same as if (b) a=b else a=c |
| 05:42.20 | DraX | HattCzech: sound.enabled = soundOn || this.user.options.sound.enabled should do that |
| 05:42.48 | StoneRyno | ok I've worked in some notes and such to the accessing linux procedure have a look at it and see if you think the changes I made are good |
| 05:43.01 | HattCzech | well, it's a toggle, so soundOn is the value after being toggled, user.options.sound is a saved value |
| 05:43.16 | DraX | oh, if soundOn is false |
| 05:43.20 | DraX | it'll skip it |
| 05:43.21 | HattCzech | the saved value remains true after the toggle happens, so then i've got false|| true |
| 05:43.21 | DraX | :) |
| 05:43.26 | DraX | yeah |
| 05:43.28 | DraX | you can do |
| 05:43.41 | DraX | ('soundOn' in this) ? this.soundOn : ....; |
| 05:43.48 | DraX | or |
| 05:44.06 | DraX | (typeof soundOn !== 'undefined') ? this.soundOn : ...; |
| 05:44.18 | DraX | you probably don't need the typeof, and can do soundOn !== undefined; |
| 05:44.22 | DraX | but IE does not like this |
| 05:44.26 | HattCzech | yeah, that's what i had before |
| 05:44.28 | DraX | because undefined is undefind and it gets ocnfused |
| 05:45.06 | HattCzech | hmmm |
| 05:45.07 | StoneRyno | only think needed to add to the changes I made is steps for using putty for 1st time accessors if they choose to use it before setting up to use it via wifi |
| 05:45.30 | HattCzech | i guess i could declare it, then check it... but sadly not a 1 liner :/ |
| 05:46.21 | DraX | what's wrong with var x = (typeof soundOn !== 'undefined') ? this.soundOn : this.user.options.sound.enabled ? |
| 05:46.27 | HattCzech | ehhh, and there's really no point in doing that... i can just stick with the if !== undefined ... soundOn ... else ... user.options |
| 05:46.55 | HattCzech | i've never used the question mark, how does it work? |
| 05:47.02 | DraX | use the conditional expression, it'll piss off jslint! :) |
| 05:47.05 | DraX | it's |
| 05:47.13 | DraX | (conditional) ? true : false; |
| 05:47.16 | DraX | so if you do |
| 05:47.25 | DraX | var x (true) ? 1 : 0; |
| 05:47.28 | DraX | err |
| 05:47.31 | DraX | var x = (true) ? 1 : 0; |
| 05:47.33 | HattCzech | okay, that works |
| 05:47.34 | DraX | then x will be 1 |
| 05:47.41 | DraX | if you change true to false, x will be 0 |
| 05:47.46 | DraX | and jslint complains about it, so it's got to be good. |
| 05:47.53 | HattCzech | lol |
| 05:48.55 | HattCzech | hahahah nice, i like that |
| 05:48.58 | rwhitby | oil: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.6_all.ipk with 'restartluna' and 'restartjava' methods. 'restartjava' will always return false, since it restarts the messaging service, but 'status' should be ready as soon as it restarts itself. |
| 05:49.14 | HattCzech | jslint said "no errors found" |
| 05:49.23 | HattCzech | although i do have quite a bit unchecked :) |
| 05:49.24 | DraX | odd |
| 05:49.29 | DraX | it used to complain about that |
| 05:49.50 | DraX | one of the guys at work used to try to jslintify my code |
| 05:49.54 | DraX | he stopped after a while.. |
| 05:50.01 | HattCzech | hahahahhahah awesome |
| 05:50.31 | HattCzech | i jslintify mine so i make sure i don't miss random stuff (then i obfuscate it :) ) |
| 05:51.21 | DraX | js2-mode catches most of the random stuff for me |
| 05:51.29 | egaudet | what's the point, it has to be de-obfuscated to run it doesn't it? |
| 05:52.27 | HattCzech | nope |
| 05:52.58 | HattCzech | i'm not hardcore about it... but it just removes end lines and spaces and stuff |
| 05:53.01 | StoneRyno | does novaterm require the pre to be connected by USB to use it? |
| 05:53.06 | HattCzech | kinda a pain to read :) |
| 05:53.17 | egaudet | Until you beautify it |
| 05:53.37 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@12.157.56.221) |
| 05:53.59 | HattCzech | heheh yeah, but i make it a take a little longer |
| 05:54.16 | egaudet | so it's just a minor annoyance rather than any sort of deterrant |
| 05:54.21 | HattCzech | for now |
| 05:54.40 | DraX | Function.toString() |
| 05:54.44 | DraX | is the best beautifier |
| 06:00.02 | HattCzech | DraX: you're awesome, i just removed like 20 lines from my code :) |
| 06:01.01 | oil | huh |
| 06:01.13 | oil | one of the "tags" in palms application submission page is "vlc" |
| 06:01.24 | DraX | nah i've just spent to much time with js |
| 06:01.37 | HattCzech | is there an xor? |
| 06:01.42 | rwhitby | destinal: ping |
| 06:01.51 | destinal | rwhitby: pong |
| 06:02.06 | rwhitby | destinal: does termplugin need a RestartLuna or RestartJava ? |
| 06:02.11 | rwhitby | (or something else) |
| 06:02.34 | destinal | RestartLuna (only if upgrading) |
| 06:02.41 | rwhitby | i.e. when you upgrade termplugin, do not reboot, and restart the terminal app, what else needs to have happened to make sure you are using the updated termplugin.so |
| 06:02.47 | DraX | HattCzech: isn't that !x || !y ? |
| 06:03.04 | HattCzech | yeah |
| 06:03.12 | DraX | there is no special operator for it |
| 06:03.16 | HattCzech | damn |
| 06:03.17 | rwhitby | destinal: ok, thanks. |
| 06:03.19 | HattCzech | okay |
| 06:06.45 | egaudet | you can xor 2 numbers in javascript can't you (x^y) |
| 06:07.18 | DraX | bitwise xor yeah |
| 06:07.38 | HattCzech | oh, and !x || !y isn't xor... i'm looking at it now, though |
| 06:07.48 | egaudet | or your own xor can just be (a) ? !b : b |
| 06:09.03 | HattCzech | hmmm... |
| 06:09.11 | oil | rwhitby did the method names change? |
| 06:09.31 | HattCzech | egaudet: brilliant! |
| 06:09.40 | rwhitby | oil: yes |
| 06:09.47 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 06:10.08 | oil | var blarg = ( x ? x : y ); |
| 06:10.12 | oil | is usually how i would do it |
| 06:10.27 | egaudet | oil that is just x || y |
| 06:10.32 | oil | yeah |
| 06:10.37 | egaudet | but that's not xor |
| 06:11.36 | oil | right |
| 06:11.38 | oil | sorry |
| 06:11.41 | oil | i only half payed attention |
| 06:13.23 | *** join/#webos-internals daybreak1199 (n=glowstic@99-171-191-144.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:15.28 | egaudet | so for a keyboard config database, think it would suffice to be just a key:json pair |
| 06:16.40 | *** join/#webos-internals drunknbass (n=drunknba@cpe-76-173-187-247.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:19.37 | drunknbass | has anyone looked at how the camera app functions? |
| 06:19.43 | drunknbass | and communicates with hardware? |
| 06:20.24 | DraX | HattCzech: so what are yo working on anyway? :) |
| 06:21.10 | HattCzech | my app, txt manager |
| 06:21.33 | DraX | for managing sms? |
| 06:21.38 | HattCzech | yup |
| 06:22.43 | HattCzech | but i need palm to open up some shit before i can submit it to the app catalog :/ |
| 06:26.48 | drunknbass | hey optware didnt set my ssh user and pass up right. you know where i can root into and fix that? |
| 06:36.43 | *** join/#webos-internals Rick_home (n=chatzill@wsip-24-249-130-185.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 06:43.05 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 06:43.05 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 06:57.12 | rwhitby | oil: accelservice 0.2.0 can be used to test the new flags. |
| 06:57.58 | *** join/#webos-internals rfk2 (n=rfk@cpe-76-93-31-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:59.31 | rfk2 | can someone direct me to a link to download webos doctor |
| 07:00.03 | rfk2 | i think the link changed and the .jar file doesn't work because of that |
| 07:00.32 | drunknbass | is passwd broken? |
| 07:00.40 | drunknbass | every pass returns me a too weak |
| 07:01.18 | epv | http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/index.html |
| 07:01.25 | epv | that will give you the 1.1.0 version |
| 07:01.33 | rfk2 | thanks |
| 07:01.49 | epv | i'm sure there are ones where you don't have to go through the stupid serial number crap |
| 07:02.58 | freakout | rfk2: if you download webOS Quick Install, it'll grab the Doctor for you as well. |
| 07:03.15 | freakout | http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html |
| 07:03.34 | epv | http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor |
| 07:03.34 | epv | p100ewwsprint.jar |
| 07:03.42 | rfk2 | i did download the webos quick install |
| 07:03.43 | epv | uh. http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor |
| 07:03.48 | epv | sorry. can't cut/paste |
| 07:03.56 | rfk2 | but it gives me an error |
| 07:04.04 | epv | http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor/p100ewwsprint.jar |
| 07:04.12 | freakout | huh. use epv's link then :P |
| 07:04.12 | epv | there. |
| 07:04.24 | rfk2 | java.io.filenotfoundexeption |
| 07:04.36 | rfk2 | thats the error i get |
| 07:04.48 | rfk2 | downloading the link epv gave me now |
| 07:05.03 | rfk2 | didn't expect that i needed to give the serial number |
| 07:06.27 | epv | maybe they do it just so they will be sure to give you the version for your carrier |
| 07:07.01 | rfk2 | maybe |
| 07:07.20 | rfk2 | it's just the pre takes a long time to start up |
| 07:08.16 | epv | it's so nice that they give you a useful and usb-accessible bootloader |
| 07:09.00 | rfk2 | damn cookies session timed out. didn't know cookies were required |
| 07:10.02 | drunknbass | anyone alive? |
| 07:10.09 | drunknbass | how to make fs read/write? |
| 07:10.23 | drunknbass | im in noveterm right now trying to fix ssh |
| 07:10.48 | oil | search the wiki, i know for a fact the information for making it readwrite is there |
| 07:11.26 | drunknbass | i found it on a forum thx |
| 07:14.06 | rfk2 | so does web os quick install just run web os doctor or does it just run it with certain flags |
| 07:17.10 | *** join/#webos-internals freakout (n=tim@220-245-75-218.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:36.27 | oil | http://i32.tinypic.com/aew9z8.png |
| 07:43.05 | *** join/#webos-internals rfk2_ (n=rfk@76.93.31.186) |
| 07:47.40 | rfk2_ | how do i get the webosquick install to recognize the webosdoctor |
| 07:48.03 | rfk2_ | what name does it need to be or what folder does it need to be in |
| 07:49.49 | rfk2_ | is there no support for vista or something? |
| 07:54.19 | daybreak1199 | rfk2 are you running vist 32 or 64 bit? |
| 07:55.06 | |rfk2| | vista 32 |
| 07:55.37 | daybreak1199 | do you have both the webosquick install and the webosdoctor files in the same directory (folder) |
| 07:56.11 | |rfk2| | have them in the desktop folder aka Public Desktop |
| 07:57.07 | |rfk2| | but the webos doctor is also a .jnlp file |
| 07:57.34 | daybreak1199 | have you tried right clicking the files and select open with ....java |
| 07:58.09 | |rfk2| | i have now |
| 07:58.15 | |rfk2| | but same thing happens |
| 07:58.18 | daybreak1199 | java (tm) platform SE binary |
| 07:58.24 | |rfk2| | yes |
| 07:58.24 | daybreak1199 | what happens? |
| 07:58.38 | *** join/#webos-internals Snake (n=ken@adsl-68-76-109-194.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net) |
| 07:58.57 | |rfk2| | for the web os docter nothing appears to happen except the hard drive light flashes |
| 07:59.15 | daybreak1199 | do you have the latest version of java installed ? |
| 07:59.26 | |rfk2| | and for the web os quick install it just asks to download the webos docter |
| 07:59.30 | |rfk2| | yes i do |
| 07:59.38 | |rfk2| | updated a few minutes ago |
| 07:59.53 | daybreak1199 | http://www.java.com/en/download/dt_verify.jsp?plugin=true&latest=true&users_jre=1.6.0_16 |
| 08:00.05 | daybreak1199 | double check with that link |
| 08:00.16 | |rfk2| | Version 6 Update 16 |
| 08:00.19 | daybreak1199 | ok |
| 08:00.24 | rwhitby | oil: org.webosinternals.luna-manager ? |
| 08:00.40 | rwhitby | oil: shall I create a repo? |
| 08:01.29 | rwhitby | wonders why all the people giving rfk2 random links didn't just point him to the webos doctor wiki page ? |
| 08:01.41 | daybreak1199 | rfk2 have you read this thread yet? |
| 08:01.43 | daybreak1199 | http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html |
| 08:02.25 | daybreak1199 | hmm rfk2 is from san diego also |
| 08:03.15 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: webos quick install does not run the webos doctor. please read the precentral thread before going any further (especially post #1 on the thread) or you will likely completely wipe your phone by mistake. |
| 08:03.33 | daybreak1199 | rwhitby can i ask you question |
| 08:03.56 | |rfk2| | yes i have read that page |
| 08:04.02 | rwhitby | anyone can ask me a question. but if it's answered on the wiki or in the doco I'm likely not to answer it ... |
| 08:04.22 | |rfk2| | although i just realized he linked to the file to manually download webos doctor |
| 08:05.39 | |rfk2| | don't know how i would wipe my phone completely by mistake because it's supposed to "guide" you through |
| 08:06.00 | daybreak1199 | to protect an idea for an app is there anything you can do? can you copywrite things like an idea or does it have to be more a fully functioning compiled program that is copywritten |
| 08:06.03 | |rfk2| | alright now it works |
| 08:06.20 | |rfk2| | guess i just needed the .jar file instead of the .jnlp file |
| 08:07.18 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: a number of people have run the webos doctor instead of the webos quick install, and complained loudly to the author because their phone got wiped. |
| 08:07.43 | rwhitby | BTW, the wiki page would have given you the URL for the .jar file directly. |
| 08:08.03 | rwhitby | daybreak1199: ideas can be patented, code can be copyrighted. |
| 08:08.15 | rwhitby | names can be trademarked |
| 08:08.19 | |rfk2| | does the web os doctor guide them through the fix or does it do it with no usere interaction |
| 08:08.30 | rwhitby | oil: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/lunamanager.git;a=summary |
| 08:14.57 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: dunno, I don't have a Pre and the doctor doesn't run against the emulator |
| 08:15.27 | |rfk2| | ok |
| 08:17.05 | daybreak1199 | rwhitby: for someone that thinks they have a really good idea for an app but very little experience developing..would you suggest to patent the idea for the app then look for a developer to partner with? |
| 08:17.57 | rwhitby | daybreak1199: I'd suggest you ask a lawyer if the potential dollars involved are big enough. |
| 08:18.05 | |rfk2| | now that i got this far i got the common no device found error |
| 08:18.18 | daybreak1199 | rfk2 are you in dev mode? |
| 08:18.43 | |rfk2| | no don't think i have the dev mode installed |
| 08:18.44 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: and you've read the troubleshooting guide, right? |
| 08:18.58 | |rfk2| | have the devoloper sdk on my computer installed |
| 08:19.17 | |rfk2| | says it can't find novacom |
| 08:19.26 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: and you've read the troubleshooting guide, right? |
| 08:19.32 | |rfk2| | but the web os quick install installed novacom |
| 08:19.36 | |rfk2| | no not yet |
| 08:19.43 | rwhitby | ... |
| 08:19.55 | |rfk2| | going to now though |
| 08:19.57 | daybreak1199 | you need to see if the novacom service is running... |
| 08:20.31 | |rfk2| | guessing i check the processes that are running or go into services |
| 08:20.44 | rwhitby | |rfk2|: in general, if there is doco or troubleshooting guides, it's a good idea to exhaust those before coming here :-) |
| 08:21.00 | |rfk2| | yeah |
| 08:21.12 | |rfk2| | came here first due to the first error |
| 08:21.31 | oil | cant push it? |
| 08:21.37 | rwhitby | they are far more likely to be useful than some random guy ... (no offense to daybreak1199) |
| 08:21.44 | daybreak1199 | rwhitby: so there is no quick way to protect the idea of an app without investing alot of money by talking with a lawyer? |
| 08:21.44 | |rfk2| | ok novacom is running now |
| 08:21.52 | *** join/#webos-internals oc80z (i=oc80z@blea.ch) |
| 08:22.20 | daybreak1199 | lol..ya i understand..i just thought i'd throw out some tips i ran accross in the wiki |
| 08:22.35 | rwhitby | oil: git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/lunamanager.git ? |
| 08:23.14 | rwhitby | daybreak1199: patents are expensive |
| 08:24.38 | daybreak1199 | rwhitby: i had an idea they were expensive. are most developers doing it because they love coding or are some ding it with and end goal of trying to sell the app as a product? |
| 08:25.14 | |rfk2| | some people are just giving the app away free until it hits the app store |
| 08:26.57 | daybreak1199 | rfk2: i understand that, I dont have any experience writing an app..but i feel i have this great idea for one and i am trying to figure out how to get my idea into reality |
| 08:28.06 | rwhitby | oil: able to push? |
| 08:28.30 | rwhitby | bbml |
| 08:34.00 | *** join/#webos-internals oil_ (n=oil@66-189-216-38.dhcp.ykma.wa.charter.com) |
| 08:34.57 | |rfk2| | ok so did i need to install the developer sdk or did i just have to type upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart |
| 08:35.04 | oil_ | rwhitby: i pushed it |
| 08:35.38 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v oil] by ChanServ |
| 08:35.45 | |rfk2| | because it seems like all i needed to do was type upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart |
| 08:36.42 | |rfk2| | in the process right now so it seems that i won't be having problems now |
| 08:36.59 | drunknbass | btw you cannot patent an idea |
| 08:37.03 | drunknbass | fyi :P |
| 08:37.21 | |rfk2| | makes sense |
| 08:38.11 | |rfk2| | i'm sure you could patent it if you actually make it or make part of it |
| 08:38.33 | drunknbass | you can patent it if you make a model or something |
| 08:38.41 | drunknbass | start to turn the idea into reality |
| 08:38.47 | drunknbass | or plan to |
| 08:38.59 | drunknbass | i know lots of companies file patents early |
| 08:39.30 | drunknbass | but either way you cant really patent software |
| 08:39.32 | drunknbass | afaik |
| 08:40.12 | drunknbass | or code actually |
| 08:42.53 | drunknbass | so nobody doing this webos internals has any dirt on the camera hardware? |
| 08:49.16 | |rfk2| | if your talking about what i'm thinking there is an app for the camera that has a delay and also removes the camera shutter sound too |
| 08:51.46 | oil | bets hes wondering about video recording |
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| 09:04.34 | drunknbass | video |
| 09:04.45 | drunknbass | i was thinking about working on something |
| 09:04.54 | drunknbass | didnt know if any progress was made |
| 09:04.55 | oil | wins |
| 09:04.57 | Xyg | preware thread in the precentral homebrew section still lists 0.8.0 |
| 09:05.06 | oil | yeah |
| 09:05.08 | oil | i gotta update that |
| 09:05.46 | drunknbass | http://gizmodo.com/333346/iphone-video-recording-now-working-with-drunknbass |
| 09:06.02 | drunknbass | maybe if i can get it working i can relive that lol |
| 09:11.24 | Xyg | oil, do you recall the date of the leaked 1.2 webos doctor build? |
| 09:11.35 | Xyg | the build date, rather |
| 09:14.22 | oil | no |
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| 10:01.57 | *** join/#webos-internals |rfk2| (n=rfk@cpe-76-93-31-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:04.21 | |rfk2| | unfortunately i'm still getting the no device detected error |
| 10:07.21 | |rfk2| | everything seems to be right |
| 10:07.32 | |rfk2| | but i still get that error |
| 10:07.51 | |rfk2| | only thing i can think of is that novacom didn't install correctly |
| 10:09.45 | |rfk2| | i'm going to see if reinstalling novacom fixes it |
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| 10:17.28 | |rfk2| | well uninstalling and reinstalling didn't fix it |
| 10:17.37 | |rfk2| | don't know whats wrong |
| 10:18.11 | |rfk2| | but what ever it is it's probably something obvious that i never would of thought of |
| 10:18.38 | |rfk2| | can't find anything in troubleshooting |
| 10:19.21 | |rfk2| | oh wait |
| 10:19.24 | |rfk2| | hold on |
| 10:28.45 | *** join/#webos-internals rfk2 (n=rfk@cpe-76-93-31-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:28.57 | rfk2 | same error |
| 10:41.43 | rfk2 | everything is correct though is the thing |
| 10:42.28 | rfk2 | except that when i re-installed novacom it didn't appear in the services window anymore |
| 10:57.14 | Decimation_ | DID I HEAR VIDEO RECORDING |
| 10:57.14 | Decimation_ | AHHH VIDEO RECORDING |
| 10:57.14 | Decimation_ | lol, first day of school, bye guys. |
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| 11:16.43 | rfk2 | this is really annoying |
| 11:16.52 | rfk2 | everything is right |
| 11:17.00 | rfk2 | exept novacom |
| 11:17.09 | rfk2 | and i can't get novacom right |
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| 12:15.46 | rwhitby | Package Manager Service 0.8.6 is released - no new features for users, but will be a prerequisite for a new app called Luna Manager, and also the next version of Preware. |
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| 12:21.59 | en0x | what is going on |
| 12:22.07 | en0x | ipkg service is crashing every two days |
| 12:22.08 | en0x | wtf |
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| 12:32.14 | rwhitby | http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.lunamanager_0.0.1_all.ipk ready for alpha testing |
| 12:32.24 | rwhitby | (thanks to oil) |
| 12:35.33 | jettero | wow, the developer.palm.com api reference is totally out of touch with com.palm.app.messaging ... |
| 12:35.41 | jettero | to the point of being "wrong" or "useless" |
| 12:35.47 | jettero | I mean, you guys said, but still |
| 12:36.02 | jettero | I guess I'll just use the source |
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| 12:49.30 | rwhitby | bbt |
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| 12:54.39 | greg_roll | rwhitby: luna manager looks nice |
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| 13:20.05 | AnOutsider | morning folks |
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| 14:48.25 | PuffTheMagic | morning |
| 14:50.20 | en0x | hmm |
| 14:50.34 | en0x | l.mp4: ISO Media, MPEG v4 system, version 1 |
| 14:50.45 | en0x | pre should be able to open this right? |
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| 15:09.01 | Rick_work | depends on the internal codec |
| 15:09.26 | *** join/#webos-internals dug1 (n=Adium@24.130.185.86) |
| 15:14.42 | en0x | VIDEO: [mp4v] 624x352 24bpp 23.976 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) |
| 15:14.46 | en0x | hmm |
| 15:14.48 | en0x | looking good |
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| 15:25.16 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: did you make any headway with thos LS* functions? |
| 15:25.27 | PuffTheMagic | sora |
| 15:26.08 | PuffTheMagic | LSMessageIsSubscription() basically just looks for subscription:true as a param |
| 15:26.20 | PuffTheMagic | LSSubscriptionProcess() i think creates a new process |
| 15:26.33 | PuffTheMagic | but idk how to use it properly |
| 15:26.34 | PuffTheMagic | or at all |
| 15:28.11 | Zuchmir2 | how did you compile batteryservice? |
| 15:28.48 | PuffTheMagic | i am using gentoo and my cross toolchain to build a mini arm userland |
| 15:29.13 | Zuchmir2 | what Makefile / gcc command? |
| 15:29.28 | PuffTheMagic | then i do something like this |
| 15:29.32 | PuffTheMagic | INC_DIR="-I${ROOT}usr/include/ -I${ROOT}include/" |
| 15:29.48 | PuffTheMagic | LDFLAGS="-L${ROOT}lib -L${ROOT}usr/lib" |
| 15:29.57 | PuffTheMagic | so that i can build against the correct root |
| 15:30.30 | PuffTheMagic | ./autogen.sh; ./configure --build=armv7a-softfloat-linux-gnueabi |
| 15:30.40 | PuffTheMagic | but ROOT is hardcoded in configure.in right now |
| 15:30.46 | PuffTheMagic | i meant to make the a config option or env var |
| 15:31.11 | PuffTheMagic | and i should switch form --build to --host |
| 15:31.18 | PuffTheMagic | but when i use host it dont find the right pkg-config |
| 15:31.24 | PuffTheMagic | and i havent looked into fixing that |
| 15:32.24 | Zuchmir2 | can you pastebin the Makefile you are using, i'll work off of that |
| 15:33.06 | PuffTheMagic | all the autotools files are in the git repo |
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| 15:44.22 | jcrawford | http://josephcrawford.com/2009/09/08/sun-v100-rackmount-servers-free/ |
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| 15:50.53 | PuffTheMagic | jcrawford: damn... so bad i dont live closer |
| 15:51.30 | Zuchmir2 | hmm, can't compile, it needs libsysfs which i don't have for cross-compiling :-( |
| 15:51.34 | *** part/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.202.139) |
| 15:51.48 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: so build it :D |
| 15:51.54 | Zuchmir2 | maybe i'll fix the src to NOT use libsysfs, instead just read the file |
| 15:52.05 | PuffTheMagic | why cant u just build libsysfs |
| 15:52.12 | Zuchmir2 | where's the src? |
| 15:52.17 | jcrawford | PuffTheMagic, yea and shipping them would cost like $40 each |
| 15:52.24 | PuffTheMagic | sysfsutils |
| 15:52.40 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/Sysfsutils.html |
| 15:52.55 | Zuchmir2 | SF.net has conf for arm? |
| 15:53.07 | PuffTheMagic | shouldnt need anything special |
| 15:53.12 | PuffTheMagic | just configure it for the toolchain |
| 15:53.15 | PuffTheMagic | and then build |
| 15:53.55 | Zuchmir2 | probably easier to just mod those few calls to a simple read_file() call (the one i pastebin'ed a few days ago) |
| 15:54.10 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: you are gonna need a bettery arm userland |
| 15:54.17 | PuffTheMagic | if you are gonna be doing services |
| 15:54.31 | PuffTheMagic | you will need cjson.so |
| 15:54.37 | PuffTheMagic | libcjson.so |
| 15:54.42 | PuffTheMagic | and libmjson.so |
| 15:54.54 | PuffTheMagic | to link against lunaservices.so |
| 15:56.38 | Zuchmir2 | hmm, where are those libs? |
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| 15:57.14 | PuffTheMagic | hou need libgdbus too |
| 15:57.38 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: it might be easier for me to tar.lzma the userland i made |
| 15:57.47 | PuffTheMagic | but i need to rebuild it using glibc 2.6 |
| 15:58.00 | Zuchmir2 | ok |
| 15:58.00 | PuffTheMagic | cause right now its using 2.9 |
| 15:58.26 | ajames | that's fine; they're abi compatible |
| 15:58.37 | ajames | i'm compiling against eglibc 2.9 |
| 15:58.50 | ajames | no problems so far |
| 15:59.08 | PuffTheMagic | ajames: i built a few things with 2.9 and they worked find |
| 15:59.09 | PuffTheMagic | fine |
| 15:59.10 | PuffTheMagic | but |
| 15:59.17 | PuffTheMagic | i just tried building ruby |
| 15:59.22 | PuffTheMagic | and it wants 2.6 |
| 15:59.42 | ajames | ah |
| 15:59.47 | PuffTheMagic | well |
| 15:59.53 | PuffTheMagic | when i copied the binary and so to the pre |
| 16:00.01 | PuffTheMagic | thats when it said could not find 2.6 |
| 16:00.23 | ajames | but you built against 2.9? |
| 16:00.52 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i built ruby i with my cross env with gcc 4.4 and glibc 2.9 |
| 16:00.57 | ajames | you said you used gentoo's cross toolchain, right? |
| 16:01.07 | Decimation_ | AnOutsider: ping |
| 16:01.11 | PuffTheMagic | ajames: i used gentoo's crossdev to build a toolchain |
| 16:01.21 | PuffTheMagic | then i use some special emerge wrappers to build other packages with it |
| 16:01.24 | PuffTheMagic | and install them in a special dir |
| 16:01.28 | ajames | i tried using debian's emchain |
| 16:01.47 | PuffTheMagic | i've made some ebuilds for the special palm libs |
| 16:01.51 | PuffTheMagic | like libgdbus |
| 16:01.53 | PuffTheMagic | and the jsons |
| 16:01.55 | ajames | but it had a lot of breakage |
| 16:02.07 | PuffTheMagic | ajames: i'd suggest gentoo, its pretty good for this type of stuff |
| 16:02.12 | ajames | the instructions in eglibc's src package are dead easy though |
| 16:02.28 | PuffTheMagic | eglibc? |
| 16:02.36 | ajames | and i only have to set CC |
| 16:02.50 | ajames | it's a fork focused on embedded linux |
| 16:02.59 | PuffTheMagic | better than uclibc? |
| 16:03.15 | ajames | larger |
| 16:03.27 | ajames | meant for systems with mmu's |
| 16:03.28 | PuffTheMagic | locale/nls works i bet though :D |
| 16:03.34 | ajames | it sure does |
| 16:03.43 | PuffTheMagic | uclibc works fine on mmu boxes |
| 16:03.57 | ajames | but eglibc doesn't work on mmu-less boxes |
| 16:03.58 | PuffTheMagic | i have a whole uclibc gentoo system for my OLPC |
| 16:04.00 | PuffTheMagic | it runs kde4 |
| 16:04.01 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 16:04.02 | ajames | just like glibc |
| 16:04.10 | ajames | crazy |
| 16:04.21 | Zuchmir2 | puff: http://pastebin.com/d2dfc712f |
| 16:04.27 | PuffTheMagic | no one though i would get kde4 built on uclibc |
| 16:05.03 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: what are you sending me? |
| 16:05.07 | Decimation_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evMPY3alRkU |
| 16:05.07 | Decimation_ | 5:20 |
| 16:05.18 | Zuchmir2 | slight mod: http://pastebin.com/d6ae5d420 |
| 16:05.37 | Zuchmir2 | this is using read_file_len() instead of all the libsysfs |
| 16:05.37 | Decimation_ | oops |
| 16:05.37 | Decimation_ | wrong window |
| 16:05.38 | Decimation_ | lol |
| 16:05.57 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: that solves like 1 out 4 issues you have |
| 16:06.06 | PuffTheMagic | and the pre has libsysfs on it |
| 16:06.12 | PuffTheMagic | so final version is still gonna use that |
| 16:07.08 | PuffTheMagic | i know i could have read it directly |
| 16:07.29 | PuffTheMagic | but i wanted to use libsysfs, i never used it before and it got features i might use down the road as i learn it better |
| 16:08.00 | Zuchmir2 | also you are using GString , which could be replaced with simple malloc()/free() |
| 16:08.20 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.201.225) |
| 16:08.30 | Zuchmir2 | as i can see, the libsysfs is good for files that have multiple params |
| 16:08.50 | Zuchmir2 | s/can see/would guess/ |
| 16:10.04 | Zuchmir2 | ... also the g_convert() i think is only needed for that ID file, which IMHO is output wrong as text |
| 16:10.28 | *** part/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.201.225) |
| 16:10.41 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: yes i know i dont need to use gstring, i was just following in the steps of libpurpleadapter as i was learning, and since liblunaservice, using glib and its already loadded why not use them |
| 16:10.52 | PuffTheMagic | i dont get why malloc/free is better than using gstring |
| 16:11.14 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/bluetooth/libgdbus-0.2.tar.bz2 |
| 16:11.17 | PuffTheMagic | you need that |
| 16:11.51 | PuffTheMagic | and http://oss.metaparadigm.com/json-c/json-c-0.9.tar.gz |
| 16:12.27 | PuffTheMagic | and this http://sourceforge.net/projects/mjson/files/mjson/1.1/mjson-1.1.tar.bz2/download |
| 16:13.58 | Zuchmir2 | because gstring has to malloc/free for every time you append data |
| 16:14.09 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i realize that |
| 16:14.13 | PuffTheMagic | which is why i used it |
| 16:14.19 | PuffTheMagic | i didnt want to append shit my self |
| 16:14.56 | Zuchmir2 | a more compact version of your code: http://pastebin.com/d23a5f246 |
| 16:15.00 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: u need this for mjson http://omploader.org/vMmI3NQ |
| 16:15.59 | PuffTheMagic | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.03 | PuffTheMagic | how is that correct? |
| 16:17.08 | Decimation_ | AnOutsider: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/197022-video-recording-real-no-gui-4.html |
| 16:17.41 | Zuchmir2 | what's the issue with that, sizeof() calculat4e how many bytes that would require |
| 16:18.28 | PuffTheMagic | that does not look like it allocates enough space |
| 16:18.45 | Zuchmir2 | what's it not taking into account? |
| 16:19.40 | PuffTheMagic | well maybe it does as i look more... the spaces in sizeof throw me off |
| 16:19.59 | Zuchmir2 | does this look better: char *jsonResponse = (char *)malloc(strlen(attribute) + sizeof("{\"\":\"\"}") + strlen(str) + 1); |
| 16:20.24 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: im sure there are efficiency improvements all over, yes my C sucks, would still like to focus on getting basic functionality working before optimizations |
| 16:20.35 | Zuchmir2 | it's basically the sprintf minus the %s |
| 16:20.39 | egaudet_work | just hardcode it to 7 |
| 16:21.10 | Zuchmir2 | yeah, but i don't want to start learning 200 libs, to be able to focus on a project :-) |
| 16:21.34 | Zuchmir2 | hardcode makes it hard to read/understand |
| 16:21.49 | PuffTheMagic | you dont need to learn a libsysfs, i already had it working |
| 16:21.59 | PuffTheMagic | the subscription stuff needs to happen regardless of that part |
| 16:22.02 | Zuchmir2 | yeah, but have to compile etc |
| 16:22.05 | egaudet_work | Zuchmir2, I think a comment with a hardcode of 7 would be easier to read than that sizeof |
| 16:22.17 | PuffTheMagic | and you will still need libmjson libjson libgdbus |
| 16:22.23 | PuffTheMagic | so what is 1 more... |
| 16:22.26 | egaudet_work | ' /* {"":""} = 7 */ |
| 16:23.18 | Zuchmir2 | 1 more = 1 more pain :-) |
| 16:24.07 | PuffTheMagic | does anyone know exactly what version of binutils and gcc the pre userland was built with? |
| 16:24.17 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: building these is so trivial with gentoo |
| 16:24.20 | PuffTheMagic | upgrade your OS :D |
| 16:25.48 | Zuchmir2 | don't have gentoo installed |
| 16:25.50 | ajames | gcc 4.2.? |
| 16:25.55 | PuffTheMagic | yeah prob 4.2 |
| 16:25.59 | Zuchmir2 | which .h file has LSErrorInit() etc |
| 16:26.08 | ajames | binutils-2.17.50.0.8 |
| 16:26.22 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: we dont have anything from palm about LS* |
| 16:26.34 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i implemented a few typedefs in include/lunaservice.h |
| 16:28.35 | Zuchmir2 | you didn't put the declares for the LS* functions in there, so i thought they were elsewhere |
| 16:28.49 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i didnt put them in there |
| 16:28.54 | PuffTheMagic | cause it seemed to link with out them |
| 16:29.05 | PuffTheMagic | i've only put in there what i've needed to compile so far |
| 16:44.00 | HattCzech | who manages the interface for preware? is that oil? |
| 16:44.27 | Zuchmir2 | puff: http://pastebin.com/d10770cd7 is the declares, so it compiles cleaner |
| 16:45.29 | Zuchmir2 | ... and methods, for cleaner compile: http://pastebin.com/df7c8b27 |
| 16:45.32 | PuffTheMagic | i though it was pretty clean |
| 16:45.36 | PuffTheMagic | to begin with |
| 16:45.50 | PuffTheMagic | did you enable some extra cflags for more warnings? |
| 16:46.28 | PuffTheMagic | why would you do that to methods[] |
| 16:46.40 | PuffTheMagic | the way i had it was exactly like it is in libpurple-adapter |
| 16:46.42 | Zuchmir2 | i like using -Wall to make sure there no errors |
| 16:47.35 | Zuchmir2 | becuase you declared void* ptr1; and you passed a pointer to a function, that's not exactly a void * |
| 16:47.49 | PuffTheMagic | then change the declare |
| 16:47.58 | PuffTheMagic | that decleare is not set in stone |
| 16:48.04 | PuffTheMagic | that was my guess to get it compiling |
| 16:48.04 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:50.17 | Zuchmir2 | is this better: http://pastebin.com/d5df2cb65 |
| 16:51.00 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: you love the My* stuff dont you :D |
| 16:51.12 | Zuchmir2 | i changed to: #define MY_CALLBACK(x) x and it comiles clean |
| 16:51.20 | *** join/#webos-internals Ingenium13 (n=josh@CMU-292144.WV.CC.CMU.EDU) |
| 16:52.54 | Zuchmir2 | that's so it doesn't clash with any "builtin" or other decalres elsewhere |
| 16:53.12 | HattCzech | oil: you around? |
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| 16:55.46 | Zuchmir2 | for all i know, LSCallbackPtr could be completely diff in the "real" .h's and as soon as they are released will cause conflics and/or hard to find errors, by prefixing My, it sorta eliminates that issue |
| 16:57.45 | PuffTheMagic | i just dont even get the purpose of masking the warning |
| 16:57.51 | PuffTheMagic | by using this typedef |
| 16:58.33 | Zuchmir2 | that way -Wall doesn't complain |
| 16:58.50 | Zuchmir2 | ... easier to find *real* errors |
| 16:59.32 | PuffTheMagic | yeah but now our service is differing from a tried and true official service |
| 17:00.04 | PuffTheMagic | but i guess that will have to be |
| 17:00.22 | Zuchmir2 | techniacally, "void *", and "MyLSCallbackPtr*" occupiy the same amount of bytes in memory |
| 17:00.59 | Zuchmir2 | i.e. on 32-bit platform, they are both 32-bit, on 64-bit platform 64-bit, so no diff |
| 17:01.29 | Zuchmir2 | it's simply for the compiler to know what to expect there |
| 17:01.45 | Zuchmir2 | ... an warn if it finds something else |
| 17:02.49 | Zuchmir2 | example, say you accidently declared: static bool validate_battery(LSHandle* lshandle, LSMessage *message/*, void *ctx*/) with the proper declare, the compiler will warn you, and you have to decide it is/sn't ok |
| 17:03.45 | Zuchmir2 | if everything is void *, the compiler knows nothing abut what to expect |
| 17:04.08 | Zuchmir2 | btw: LibpurpleAdapter.c only uses 2 parameters: { "login", login }, not 3 |
| 17:04.16 | PuffTheMagic | i know |
| 17:04.18 | PuffTheMagic | but |
| 17:04.23 | PuffTheMagic | when I used 2 |
| 17:04.32 | PuffTheMagic | ever 3 methods worked |
| 17:04.35 | PuffTheMagic | every 3 |
| 17:04.50 | PuffTheMagic | so like the first, fourth, seventh etc. |
| 17:04.58 | PuffTheMagic | when i added in the extra field |
| 17:05.03 | PuffTheMagic | then every method worked |
| 17:05.07 | PuffTheMagic | so idk whats up with that |
| 17:05.11 | Zuchmir2 | ok, so because they had the real .h file, it didn't need the 3rd param, it was implied |
| 17:05.44 | PuffTheMagic | implied? |
| 17:06.16 | Zuchmir2 | if you get rid of the NULL now, it will still work, as the struct has a known size |
| 17:06.57 | Zuchmir2 | before the compiler thought there are 2 32-bit values in the struct, now it knows there are 3 |
| 17:07.31 | PuffTheMagic | k |
| 17:08.03 | Zuchmir2 | so even if you don't put anything there the compiler knows to pad that (not necessarily NULL, but something is there) |
| 17:08.31 | Zuchmir2 | but it's fine as is, i forgot you had to do trial 'n error for that |
| 17:11.09 | *** join/#webos-internals pocek (i=pock@87-205-78-57.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 17:12.47 | Zuchmir2 | btw how do you know the structure layout of LSError ? |
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| 18:50.25 | oc80z | whats good? |
| 18:52.13 | *** part/#webos-internals FreeTim (n=freetim@204.251.204.200) |
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| 19:12.18 | *** join/#webos-internals spotter (n=spotter@kohein.cs.columbia.edu) |
| 19:12.26 | spotter | anyone have issues w/ the package managemnt services? |
| 19:12.28 | spotter | service |
| 19:12.30 | spotter | it goes nuts on me |
| 19:12.40 | spotter | preware says unable to contact it |
| 19:12.46 | spotter | and then phone gets very slow |
| 19:12.51 | spotter | like its chewing up cpu cycles |
| 19:13.36 | oc80z | after the upgrade? |
| 19:14.14 | spotter | ? |
| 19:14.14 | oc80z | from X to 8.02? |
| 19:14.25 | oc80z | with webosquick,jar w/e |
| 19:14.39 | spotter | oc80z, you talking to me? |
| 19:15.14 | oc80z | mm,mya |
| 19:17.41 | oc80z | WebOSQuickInstall.jar?? |
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| 19:21.09 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: reboot |
| 19:21.11 | PuffTheMagic | your pre |
| 19:21.17 | PuffTheMagic | see if its better |
| 19:21.28 | spotter | it does get better when I reboot |
| 19:21.31 | spotter | but it can happen again |
| 19:21.39 | PuffTheMagic | can or does? |
| 19:21.46 | spotter | does |
| 19:21.49 | spotter | not always |
| 19:21.52 | oc80z | if ran into the same-like issues. |
| 19:21.52 | PuffTheMagic | that should only happen after upgrades possibly |
| 19:21.56 | PuffTheMagic | idk why its happening other times |
| 19:22.01 | spotter | this happens on startup |
| 19:22.06 | spotter | as if the service is going wonky |
| 19:22.11 | en0x | lol how u think? will apple release new itunes tomorrow with blocked pre access? |
| 19:22.12 | PuffTheMagic | it probably is |
| 19:22.14 | oc80z | yeah its a service issue imo |
| 19:22.14 | en0x | :> |
| 19:22.23 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: can you ssh in? |
| 19:22.28 | gkatsev | egaudet_work: going to webosboston? |
| 19:22.31 | spotter | I have terminal |
| 19:22.40 | spotter | so if I can get that open can do stuff |
| 19:22.43 | spotter | but not occuring right now |
| 19:22.53 | oc80z | bout to bike to mit |
| 19:22.54 | PuffTheMagic | but no ssh? |
| 19:23.01 | spotter | hmm |
| 19:23.03 | spotter | actually do have ssh |
| 19:23.06 | spotter | installed optware |
| 19:23.09 | spotter | but haven't used it |
| 19:23.10 | PuffTheMagic | i mean u can use terminal |
| 19:23.13 | PuffTheMagic | but it will be harder |
| 19:23.18 | spotter | as barely have wifi on |
| 19:23.21 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: type 'initctl events' |
| 19:23.26 | gkatsev | en0x: yes, then palm will get access to it again in 1.2 or 1.1.1, lol |
| 19:23.43 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: do u need any events after typing that |
| 19:23.49 | PuffTheMagic | like do you see ipkgservice restarting? |
| 19:24.16 | en0x | gkatsev: i dont think that they will block it now if they will do then they will block some ipods too |
| 19:24.18 | spotter | its just sitting there |
| 19:24.21 | spotter | doing noithing |
| 19:24.32 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: thats good for the most part |
| 19:24.38 | oc80z | org.webosinternals.ipkgservce |
| 19:24.40 | PuffTheMagic | is it being "slow" right now? |
| 19:24.46 | spotter | no |
| 19:24.50 | gkatsev | en0x: we'll see. there might not be a new itunes tomorrow |
| 19:24.57 | egaudet_work | no can't make it :( |
| 19:25.04 | gkatsev | but i dont care. dont use itunes. it sucks... |
| 19:25.11 | gkatsev | egaudet_work: aww |
| 19:25.40 | PuffTheMagic | spotter: when it starts running slow can do this again and check to see if its restarting? |
| 19:25.43 | spotter | ok |
| 19:25.44 | en0x | i dont use it too |
| 19:25.50 | spotter | so its probably continually restarting? |
| 19:25.57 | spotter | i.e. starts, dies, starts, dies? |
| 19:25.59 | PuffTheMagic | thats my guess |
| 19:26.00 | spotter | is that the guess? |
| 19:26.03 | spotter | ok |
| 19:26.25 | PuffTheMagic | i cant believe how much java is on this thing |
| 19:26.37 | gkatsev | how much? |
| 19:26.38 | *** join/#webos-internals tlz (n=dp@c-71-59-201-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:26.38 | PuffTheMagic | java uses up like 20-30% of cpu |
| 19:26.43 | en0x | how do i just restart ipkg services without rebooting the phone? |
| 19:26.55 | PuffTheMagic | err |
| 19:26.57 | PuffTheMagic | s/cpu/mem/ |
| 19:27.16 | PuffTheMagic | en0x: stop org.webosinternals.ipkgservcice |
| 19:27.21 | PuffTheMagic | start org.webosinternals.ipkgservcice |
| 19:27.23 | tlz | sup puff |
| 19:27.30 | PuffTheMagic | tlz: hi |
| 19:27.33 | tlz | how goes it |
| 19:27.40 | PuffTheMagic | good i guess |
| 19:28.09 | en0x | PuffTheMagic: who is working on the luna manager? maybe he can add that so i can restart ipkgservice from luna manager |
| 19:28.10 | psykoz | So, last night my ipkgservice was down, had to where I was at manually restart it via terminal, made me think it'd be nice if there was a GUI service manager |
| 19:28.22 | en0x | because every two days i get no ipkgservice running |
| 19:28.23 | en0x | :S |
| 19:28.29 | PuffTheMagic | en0x: i am making an upstart service and gui |
| 19:28.43 | PuffTheMagic | which will make most of luna manager useless |
| 19:28.51 | en0x | oh i see |
| 19:28.57 | psykoz | what is Luna Manager? |
| 19:29.02 | en0x | nice let me know if it will be ready for beta testing |
| 19:29.06 | en0x | PuffTheMagic: ^ |
| 19:29.17 | PuffTheMagic | yea no prob |
| 19:29.19 | tlz | anyone running preware 0.8.2 and have it stuck on the loading screen? |
| 19:29.28 | en0x | i'm running 0.8.6 |
| 19:29.35 | PuffTheMagic | i am gonna start on the upstart service once i get subscriptions working in sysfs battery service |
| 19:29.58 | en0x | i'm waiting for irc client :( |
| 19:30.06 | tlz | enox |
| 19:30.10 | tlz | just use irssi in terminal ;) |
| 19:30.26 | en0x | i dont like it |
| 19:30.32 | oil | tlz: everyone gets that in 082, upgrade to 085 |
| 19:31.10 | en0x | tlz: well i dont mind it but i dont like it i tried all scrollz, epic+lice, irssi, bitchx |
| 19:31.33 | PuffTheMagic | irssi sucks |
| 19:31.45 | PuffTheMagic | and im not even talking about on the pre |
| 19:31.55 | en0x | there is nothing better than native irc client for webos |
| 19:31.56 | PuffTheMagic | and if say screen+irssi ownz |
| 19:32.01 | PuffTheMagic | then you havent tried quassel |
| 19:32.04 | oil | and i whipped up the luna manager |
| 19:32.06 | tlz | if i update preware via ipkg -o /var upgrade |
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| 19:32.11 | oil | restarting services should restart ipkgservice |
| 19:32.12 | tlz | do i need to run the postinst |
| 19:32.22 | oil | preware doesnt have a postinst |
| 19:32.23 | chrisa | I've been using screen/irssi for a decade now |
| 19:32.27 | chrisa | Good luck changing that habit |
| 19:32.28 | oil | but the package manager does |
| 19:32.31 | oil | so, you will need to do it for that |
| 19:32.41 | oil | since preware 085 requires package service 085 |
| 19:32.54 | tlz | do you know the path to where it is |
| 19:32.59 | oil | no |
| 19:33.08 | tlz | eh, i'll just search for it lol |
| 19:34.03 | egaudet_work | at one point couldn't I upgrade package manager from preware? |
| 19:34.29 | spotter | oil, for those of us who don't have easy access to a computer, hard to upgrade service :) |
| 19:34.41 | egaudet_work | terminal |
| 19:35.31 | tlz | hmmmm |
| 19:35.38 | tlz | now its stuck on checking version |
| 19:35.54 | gkatsev | i think i should webOSdr my phone and try running like that for a few days, cuz data and voice have been horrible for me |
| 19:37.35 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@nat/hp/x-bpybqqhdouicbqac) |
| 19:37.42 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: yeah i know there are some die hard irssi fans |
| 19:37.49 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: i like giving them a hard time |
| 19:37.51 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 19:40.26 | en0x | hehe |
| 19:40.42 | bpadalino|work | i'm partial to bx because me and panasync used to talk |
| 19:40.51 | bpadalino|work | but i've never given irssi a change |
| 19:42.27 | en0x | bitchx sux big time |
| 19:42.38 | bpadalino|work | :( |
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| 19:47.36 | PuffTheMagic | seriously you people need to try quassel |
| 19:47.41 | PuffTheMagic | its client/server based |
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| 19:47.48 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Sargun] by ChanServ |
| 19:47.50 | PuffTheMagic | so you can run the server part on your local box or on a server |
| 19:48.01 | PuffTheMagic | and it keeps your connected all the time if u run it on a server that is always up |
| 19:48.07 | PuffTheMagic | then u can use a client on any platform |
| 19:48.34 | PuffTheMagic | and if using a remote server then all your channels will be there |
| 19:48.40 | PuffTheMagic | with all their backlogs etc. |
| 19:48.44 | bpadalino|work | so it's a bounce ? |
| 19:48.46 | Decimation_ | i called sprint about service in my house |
| 19:49.14 | PuffTheMagic | bpadalino|work: i guess... idk what a bounce is specifically.. |
| 19:49.44 | chrisa | You can do all that with an irssi plugin |
| 19:49.46 | bpadalino|work | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_(software) |
| 19:49.46 | Decimation_ | and told them i was thinking about returning the phone and switching back to verizon because of service in my house |
| 19:49.46 | Decimation_ | and they just said |
| 19:49.46 | Decimation_ | the airave is $100, thanks, bye. |
| 19:49.46 | Decimation_ | DIDNT EVEN OFFER IT FOR FREE :P |
| 19:49.50 | chrisa | Or just use screen/irssi ;) |
| 19:50.05 | bpadalino|work | screen is where it's at |
| 19:50.19 | bpadalino|work | i don't even use 1/100th of what screen can do |
| 19:50.22 | bpadalino|work | and it's great |
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| 19:54.27 | drunknbass_work | does this run on anyones pre browser? http://webkit.org/blog-files/3d-transforms/morphing-cubes.html |
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| 20:08.51 | kepi | hello |
| 20:09.07 | *** part/#webos-internals kepi (n=ubuntu@41.204.145.12) |
| 20:12.08 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: ping |
| 20:18.13 | *** join/#webos-internals Bsims (n=Bsims@c-98-212-79-240.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.42 | Bsims | Got a question on preware, how does it affect battery life? |
| 20:21.07 | Zuchmir2 | puff: pong |
| 20:22.41 | *** join/#webos-internals ird (n=ryan@adsl-157-60-103.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:24.19 | jauderho | well preware 0.8.5 seems a little faster but still is hung on the laoding screen |
| 20:24.36 | Xyg | close and reopen |
| 20:24.57 | jauderho | odd |
| 20:24.58 | Bsims | Got a question on preware, how does it affect battery life? |
| 20:25.00 | en0x | mine preware is damn fast |
| 20:25.16 | Xyg | I've found that if it hangs for me, it'll load up no problem after I close and reopen |
| 20:25.17 | en0x | 30 seconds and its done with updating feeds and loading |
| 20:25.19 | jauderho | why is the close/reopen necessary? |
| 20:25.32 | Xyg | I could just be impatient :D |
| 20:25.52 | en0x | i wonder why app catalog is faster than preware |
| 20:26.16 | Bsims | en0x: beats me I found filecoaster faster, but less featured not tried 8.5 yet |
| 20:26.30 | en0x | i'm on 8.6 |
| 20:26.31 | en0x | :) |
| 20:27.03 | ird | Does anyone know where to get the source code for the termplugin? |
| 20:27.42 | Bsims | I have terminal and terminal service installed but I don't get a command prompt... does it require root access |
| 20:28.03 | en0x | just black screen? |
| 20:28.18 | Bsims | yes |
| 20:28.18 | en0x | Bsims: ^ |
| 20:28.25 | en0x | Bsims: change the colors |
| 20:28.30 | en0x | font colors and background |
| 20:29.26 | ird | nevermind. |
| 20:29.32 | ird | I just noticed the link to the source in the wiki |
| 20:29.54 | Bsims | Hrm I'll try that |
| 20:32.07 | Bsims | No joy stays black even when I set the background to red |
| 20:32.18 | Bsims | I've not rooted the phone at all though |
| 20:33.03 | ird | Arg. |
| 20:33.23 | ird | Apparently the glitorious page is broken. |
| 20:33.42 | ird | gitorious* |
| 20:33.58 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i have a userland for u to test |
| 20:34.19 | PuffTheMagic | http://preyourmind.org/files/pre-dev-userland-0.0.1_alpha.tar.bz2 |
| 20:34.34 | en0x | Bsims: did you reboot? |
| 20:35.05 | Bsims | Nope I;ll try that |
| 20:38.05 | *** join/#webos-internals BrettQ (n=hokie36@32.134.95.193) |
| 20:40.24 | Bsims | No joy |
| 20:40.40 | Bsims | still black screen even though I set it to white |
| 20:43.10 | Bsims | en0x: any ideas? |
| 20:43.31 | en0x | nope |
| 20:43.34 | en0x | ask rwhitby |
| 20:43.34 | ird | Hmm. |
| 20:43.35 | en0x | ;) |
| 20:44.28 | ird | Bsims, have you tried removing them and reinstalling it? |
| 20:47.27 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: looking at it now |
| 20:48.03 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: http://preyourmind.org/content/gentoo-based-cross-development-userland |
| 20:48.12 | PuffTheMagic | im gonna expand in there about it |
| 20:48.18 | PuffTheMagic | and explain how it made it |
| 20:48.23 | PuffTheMagic | you really should get gentoo |
| 20:50.39 | Bsims | ird: No but I can |
| 20:51.22 | ird | When I first installed it, nothing worked. |
| 20:51.28 | ird | After removing and installing again, it worked fine. |
| 20:52.28 | ird | Does anyone know where to get the termplugin source? The links in the wiki go to a repo that no longer exist. |
| 20:54.26 | Bsims | Hrm I can't remove the terminal background service till I get home, but reinstalling the app did nothing |
| 20:54.27 | egaudet_work | http://git.webos-internals.org |
| 20:54.55 | Bsims | grrr |
| 20:55.07 | ird | egaudet_work, thanks. |
| 20:55.23 | ird | I had tried doing that through cl but it kept asking for a password. |
| 20:59.20 | Zuchmir2 | are all those files needed? etc, packages, ... |
| 21:01.30 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: needed? prob not. maybe useful at some point? maybe... |
| 21:01.44 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i can exclude them from future builds/releases |
| 21:01.46 | PuffTheMagic | no biggie |
| 21:01.49 | ird | This is why I wish I'd stuck with learning to program when I was younger. |
| 21:02.13 | PuffTheMagic | ird: i didnt learn till i was older |
| 21:02.25 | PuffTheMagic | granted im not great, i know a little about a lot of stuff |
| 21:02.50 | ird | I've finally found something I want to do, I just can't figure my way through all this stuff to figure out how it works. |
| 21:05.39 | ird | I just need to figure out how to write a plugin that I can interact with via mojo. |
| 21:05.53 | ird | But the termplugin (and the mojo side of it aswell) don't make much sense. :p |
| 21:06.11 | chrisa | Does the term plugin support curses? I assume it doesn't |
| 21:07.00 | PuffTheMagic | yeah it does |
| 21:07.02 | PuffTheMagic | nano works |
| 21:07.50 | chrisa | interesting, I'm curious what they do to properly render the terminfo in mojo |
| 21:08.18 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: the files in the packages dir should make it easy to ipks for binary libs/apps |
| 21:09.45 | bpadalino|work | chrisa, it's all open source - check i tout |
| 21:10.07 | PuffTheMagic | ird: what are you interested in doing |
| 21:10.13 | PuffTheMagic | there might be some others here that share your interest |
| 21:10.17 | PuffTheMagic | esp if its plugin related |
| 21:10.27 | bpadalino|work | hrm, maybe i read that wrong - mojo only gives the blank canvas .. the plugin renders all the text |
| 21:10.48 | chrisa | So the plugin is just sending a buffer back? Gotcha |
| 21:10.54 | bpadalino|work | yes |
| 21:12.25 | chrisa | hmm gitorious is failing |
| 21:13.13 | bpadalino|work | what's up at gitorious ? |
| 21:13.46 | chrisa | The term plugin |
| 21:14.02 | bpadalino|work | oh - i think there is a more recent git repo on webos-internals |
| 21:14.03 | bpadalino|work | hold |
| 21:14.19 | bpadalino|work | http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=plugins/termplugin.git;a=summary |
| 21:15.14 | PuffTheMagic | yeah we dont use gitorious for anyhting any more i dont thin |
| 21:15.24 | PuffTheMagic | its all been moved to git.webosinternals.org |
| 21:15.44 | bpadalino|work | indeed |
| 21:16.18 | chrisa | Looks like a lot of this code is adapted from another project |
| 21:18.08 | bpadalino|work | i think it is a derivative of the example plugin available via mozilla |
| 21:18.23 | chrisa | Looks that way, a lot of it is mozilla/yahoo code |
| 21:19.31 | bpadalino|work | NPP_HandleEvent is where i think most of the guts/brains end up being spawned from |
| 21:19.56 | ird | PuffTheMagic, I'm wanting to create a plugin that allows you to connect to IRC servers etc. |
| 21:20.08 | ird | And a mojo app that uses it to allows you to IRC from the pre. |
| 21:20.52 | bpadalino|work | ird, what about a socketservice that just allows mojo/JS to connect to raw sockets ? |
| 21:21.16 | ird | I guess that would be more useful in the long run. |
| 21:21.18 | ird | For other apps. |
| 21:21.29 | bpadalino|work | technically something like that could connect to the local novacom socket and get a terminal that way - so the terminalplugin wouldn't really require all the C++ stuff |
| 21:22.01 | ird | I'm just not a programmer (Although it's my intent to learn with this.) The only languages I've ever had much experience are all web based html\css\php |
| 21:22.38 | bpadalino|work | there's always time to learn! |
| 21:23.00 | ird | Exactly, I'm just not sure where to start. |
| 21:23.15 | bpadalino|work | services using Java are easier to write |
| 21:23.26 | ird | I thought that. |
| 21:23.47 | *** join/#webos-internals flpalm (n=Adium@10.20.103.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 21:25.18 | ird | bpadalino|work, What all would I need to learn about to write a plugin like this? |
| 21:25.39 | ird | I'm not exactly a linux guru or anything :p |
| 21:25.40 | bpadalino|work | plugin or service ? |
| 21:25.43 | ird | er |
| 21:25.44 | ird | service, yeah |
| 21:26.42 | bpadalino|work | a service - you can take a look at the other services on the webos git repo .. i believe most of them (except the battery one) is written in Java .. you will need to understand interfaces, exceptions and callbacks ... but it's a good place to start |
| 21:27.18 | ird | I see. |
| 21:27.20 | ird | Thanks. |
| 21:27.52 | bpadalino|work | good luck |
| 21:28.15 | ird | What about sockets? |
| 21:28.19 | gkatsev | w00t, webosboston |
| 21:29.14 | bpadalino|work | ird, you can use google to figure out how to open up a socket on google .. |
| 21:29.22 | bpadalino|work | erm, in java |
| 21:29.29 | bpadalino|work | google google bing bing google .. sorry |
| 21:29.58 | ird | Speaking of.. |
| 21:29.59 | ird | http://lmgtfy.com/ |
| 21:30.00 | ird | :p |
| 21:30.17 | gkatsev | lmgtfy.com/?q=bing |
| 21:30.26 | bpadalino|work | i heard bing is the new way to google |
| 21:31.11 | ird | Meh. |
| 21:31.13 | ird | To each his own. |
| 21:31.15 | ird | I prefer google. |
| 21:32.32 | ird | bpadalino|work, for future reference, do browser plugins have to be C++? |
| 21:34.14 | bpadalino|work | i am not sure it's a language thing, but it just needs to implement the NPAPI interface |
| 21:35.57 | gkatsev | what about the nmomi interface? </bad jokes> |
| 21:37.10 | *** join/#webos-internals Orion_PK (n=OrioNPK@c-75-72-37-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.10 | en0x | bing is good for searching porn |
| 21:38.07 | *** join/#webos-internals pg13 (i=iandy@fansubbers.com) |
| 21:39.04 | rwhitby | HattCzech: for preware interface, just put suggestions on the wiki discussion page so they are public. |
| 21:41.55 | rwhitby | heh - at no point did spotter tell us what version of ipkgservice he was having problems with, and at no point did anyone ask him ... |
| 21:48.15 | PuffTheMagic | ird: u dont want to do IRC as plugin |
| 21:48.25 | PuffTheMagic | ird: that is something that should be done as a service |
| 21:48.38 | PuffTheMagic | ird: and that is number 2 on my todo list |
| 21:49.00 | PuffTheMagic | ird: it could be done right now as a java service |
| 21:49.04 | PuffTheMagic | but i want to make it a C service |
| 21:49.27 | PuffTheMagic | and we need to figure out 1 more thing before we can start on that service |
| 21:49.44 | PuffTheMagic | ird: and me and oil alreayd have designs for the irc app |
| 21:49.47 | Robi_ | uhh my pre just locked up |
| 21:50.04 | Robi_ | nothing responding, whats the key combo to reboot? |
| 21:50.58 | *** join/#webos-internals slam_ (n=grndslm@174-126-14-4.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 21:51.37 | PuffTheMagic | ird: and a IRC service/plugin would probably be a too big of a project to jump into to start learning C or java |
| 21:51.49 | PuffTheMagic | although i have a habbit of taking on big projects to learn with |
| 21:51.59 | PuffTheMagic | so i really have no right in saying that |
| 21:52.19 | rwhitby | http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/6730/preware-085-released-with-speed-enhancements/ |
| 21:55.19 | *** join/#webos-internals Doc_exe (n=Doc_exe@CPE-24-167-226-94.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 21:56.02 | *** join/#webos-internals zsoc (n=nghr@unaffiliated/zsoc) |
| 21:57.37 | zsoc | ajames, we should think about a gstreamer page for the webOS internals wiki, or atleast added information into the video recording page |
| 21:57.57 | Robi_ | looks like mashing the keys did it |
| 21:57.58 | Robi_ | sigh |
| 21:58.08 | Robi_ | wonder if there are crash logs |
| 21:59.03 | zsoc | In my experience, mashing keys generally fixes most problems. |
| 21:59.11 | zsoc | Robi_, /var/logs ? |
| 21:59.25 | zsoc | s/logs/log |
| 21:59.49 | rwhitby | http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-go-it <- interestingly, it mentions WebOS Quick Install, Preware and PreLoad, but not fileCoaster. |
| 22:00.54 | zsoc | I like the guy that wrote that |
| 22:04.21 | Decimation_ | AnOutsider: ya here? |
| 22:04.34 | *** join/#webos-internals lizardo (n=lizardo@irc.angui.sh) |
| 22:06.13 | *** join/#webos-internals Ingenium13 (n=josh@c-71-199-97-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:07.33 | Robi_ | zsoc: can't ssh in atm, will have to wait. |
| 22:08.03 | zsoc | Robi_, why not? also there's always novacom or usbnet. |
| 22:08.14 | zsoc | or install the terminal app from preware xD |
| 22:08.36 | Robi_ | no cable |
| 22:08.49 | zsoc | ah |
| 22:08.57 | Robi_ | i'm not going to spend 20 min typing on the lil keyb |
| 22:09.01 | *** join/#webos-internals |rfk2| (n=rfk2@174-145-133-69.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:09.05 | Robi_ | i have work to do |
| 22:09.13 | zsoc | lol its fun xD but i dont blame you :> |
| 22:09.52 | zsoc | Also, please someone slap me the next time i use 'lol' as punctuation, it's becoming a bad habit. |
| 22:09.54 | *** join/#webos-internals flpalm1 (n=Adium@10.20.103.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 22:16.21 | *** join/#webos-internals jcrawford (n=jcrawfor@unaffiliated/idle0ne) |
| 22:17.53 | Decimation_ | hah, guys, seems 1.2 is coming out today. |
| 22:17.53 | Decimation_ | we already have the full changelog |
| 22:18.34 | *** join/#webos-internals jcrawford (n=jcrawfor@unaffiliated/idle0ne) |
| 22:18.36 | rwhitby | ~lart zsoc |
| 22:18.36 | infobot | executes killall -TERM zsoc |
| 22:18.55 | rwhitby | zsoc: just ask infobot to slap you :-) |
| 22:19.25 | HattCzech | today? oooohhhhh, goodie |
| 22:19.51 | HattCzech | Decimation_: do you have a time? :) haha |
| 22:20.30 | rwhitby | 10:57 today, GMT+12:45 timezone |
| 22:20.35 | *** join/#webos-internals muchtall (n=muchtall@75-146-189-25-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:20.43 | zsoc | rwhitby, heh, thanks for the tip :) |
| 22:21.45 | rwhitby | (and if you don't believe there is such a timezone, look at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63) |
| 22:21.50 | zsoc | Decimation_, what do you mean by "have the full changelog"? |
| 22:22.00 | zsoc | I never doubt you rod. |
| 22:23.53 | *** join/#webos-internals BrettQ (n=hokie36@cpe-098-122-127-057.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:26.53 | Decimation_ | within the next hour |
| 22:26.53 | Decimation_ | 1.2 will be released :) |
| 22:27.53 | Decimation_ | en0x: according to sprints site 1.2 is already out :) |
| 22:28.58 | *** join/#webos-internals FreeTim (n=freetim@31-35-93.wireless.csail.mit.edu) |
| 22:33.31 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 22:35.17 | zsoc | cool cool |
| 22:36.16 | HattCzech | does anyone here have any certifications of any sort? i found out that i can get some of them paid for and i'm wondering what's userful |
| 22:36.20 | HattCzech | useful* |
| 22:37.28 | *** join/#webos-internals Decimation (n=Decimati@d192-24-56-160.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:39.08 | ird | Decimation, where is the changelog? |
| 22:39.41 | Decimation | http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202049-1-2-comming-out-today.html |
| 22:39.42 | Decimation | that post |
| 22:39.49 | Decimation | but it is located on the sprint site |
| 22:39.57 | Decimation | if you go in your account, then check updates |
| 22:40.06 | ird | Ah |
| 22:40.07 | ird | Thanks. |
| 22:40.16 | Decimation | also says today is the date released. |
| 22:40.27 | Decimation | and 1.1 was released about 20 minutes from now |
| 22:40.31 | Decimation | so we'll see what happens :) |
| 22:40.51 | ird | Either it's coming or someone at sprint messed up, I guess. |
| 22:41.12 | Decimation | nah, palm site changed also |
| 22:41.13 | Decimation | http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/home/page_en.html |
| 22:41.17 | Decimation | the box on the right |
| 22:41.24 | Decimation | the one that says Palm webOS |
| 22:41.26 | Decimation | used to say |
| 22:41.28 | *** join/#webos-internals DeCiBeL (n=chatzill@ip98-184-140-94.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 22:41.31 | Decimation | Palm webOS 1.1 |
| 22:41.34 | Decimation | so they are changing stuff.. |
| 22:42.22 | PuffTheMagic | ird: so if you have an interest in contributing to the irc service or client i will most definately message you on it when we are ready to start |
| 22:42.33 | PuffTheMagic | and nothing is keeping you from making your own |
| 22:42.54 | PuffTheMagic | im just saying oil and I already have a good idea of how the mojo is gonna be |
| 22:42.55 | DeCiBeL | Whatup webos-internals? |
| 22:42.56 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: working on an IRC client now? |
| 22:43.01 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: soon |
| 22:43.08 | PuffTheMagic | once i figure out subscriptions in C services |
| 22:43.10 | Decimation | that's an app i'd love. |
| 22:43.30 | zsoc | That change log is seriously non exhaustive, they missed at least a few things. |
| 22:43.40 | Decimation | once you figure out subscriptions, make that progress bar on preware possible before starting the IRC client :P |
| 22:43.57 | DeCiBeL | Been a while since I have been able to play with my Pre the way I want to.. Had it since 06/06... Can anyone confirm or deny any issues with the patches from the git repositories? I am on 1.1 and am getting several hunk errors trying to apply some of the patches. |
| 22:43.57 | ird | PuffTheMagic, Sure, let me know. I'm not sure how much I can help though. I'm still teaching myself how to work with mojo etc |
| 22:44.25 | Decimation | DeCiBeL: don't both with patches, there is a new update coming out today. |
| 22:44.30 | DeCiBeL | Preware = DA SHIZNET! I am soo happy with that. |
| 22:44.31 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, If I wanted to go about making a simple service (just stop and start, 'start' passing a command to shell, and 'stop' acting like a ctrl+c), where would I start? |
| 22:44.44 | DeCiBeL | 1.2? |
| 22:44.48 | DeCiBeL | or 1.1.X? |
| 22:44.56 | PuffTheMagic | ird: well once we start all the code will be on git so you can see the code and helo out as you can |
| 22:45.02 | Decimation | DeCiBeL: 1.2 |
| 22:45.10 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: what? |
| 22:45.10 | DeCiBeL | Awesome! Where was this info leaked from? |
| 22:45.22 | PuffTheMagic | oh |
| 22:45.24 | Decimation | the sprint site :P |
| 22:45.27 | DeCiBeL | Ha! |
| 22:45.29 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, I was told you're the man to ask about services. i believe the words used were "PuffTheMagic is service-making machine" |
| 22:45.32 | DeCiBeL | I don't trust it then. |
| 22:45.36 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: there already are services for executing arbitrary commands |
| 22:45.37 | Decimation | do you have an account on the sprint website to view your phone? |
| 22:45.43 | PuffTheMagic | you dont need to reinvent the wheel |
| 22:45.44 | DeCiBeL | But of course |
| 22:45.48 | DeCiBeL | I never log in there |
| 22:45.49 | Decimation | go to it |
| 22:45.51 | DeCiBeL | No |
| 22:45.54 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: there are? which ones? |
| 22:45.55 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, Ah... then I guess I'll use those ;) I'll go poke about |
| 22:45.55 | DeCiBeL | :D |
| 22:45.56 | Decimation | and hit the check for software updates button |
| 22:46.05 | Decimation | it will show you :P |
| 22:46.09 | DeCiBeL | Sweet.. Maybe it will happen. |
| 22:46.11 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: what about that commander app? |
| 22:46.14 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: we pulled the arbitrary command service. |
| 22:46.18 | PuffTheMagic | oh |
| 22:46.24 | zsoc | hehe |
| 22:46.25 | PuffTheMagic | well its still "out there" |
| 22:46.37 | rwhitby | only in source form |
| 22:46.38 | DeCiBeL | Nother question: PLEASE.. No offense to PreLoad or Filecoaster... |
| 22:46.41 | en0x | Decimation: oh no shit |
| 22:46.42 | en0x | hmm |
| 22:46.43 | zsoc | seems dangerous no? rather than a service that does 1 specific thing? I guess I don't fully understand how it works. |
| 22:46.49 | DeCiBeL | But why the heck are they still devel'ing? |
| 22:47.02 | rwhitby | we pulled the ipkg. and I mean *completely" pulled it (i.e. rewrote git history) |
| 22:47.05 | Decimation | ex0x: yeah, lol |
| 22:47.15 | rwhitby | zsoc: yep, that's why we pulled it. |
| 22:47.18 | DeCiBeL | Preware is leaps and bounds ahead of both, but yet they are still developing. |
| 22:47.31 | zsoc | rwhitby, could I possibly use it, or something like it, as a template for making my own service? |
| 22:47.34 | rwhitby | DeCiBeL: both of those have different feature sets. |
| 22:47.46 | rwhitby | zsoc: just use one of the existing services |
| 22:47.52 | DeCiBeL | rwhitby: Aye.. But those feature sets are in Preware, No? |
| 22:47.54 | Decimation | rwhitby: I say you and preload combine :) |
| 22:47.54 | rwhitby | (the source code, for a template) |
| 22:47.58 | rwhitby | DeCiBeL: no |
| 22:48.04 | zsoc | I see.. I'll go find the simplest one :P |
| 22:48.05 | rwhitby | (they are not in preware) |
| 22:48.09 | DeCiBeL | I did find a bug in Preware.. |
| 22:48.20 | Decimation | rwhitby: preware needs wall paper downloads |
| 22:48.20 | DeCiBeL | Actually 2 |
| 22:48.27 | rwhitby | Decimation: PreLoad and Preware are open source, so anyone can combine the two |
| 22:48.30 | Decimation | of course 1.2 allows you to just get them off the web. |
| 22:48.51 | rwhitby | Decimation: Preware is an ipkg installer. Nothing more. If a wallpaper is packaged as an ipkg, it can be installed. |
| 22:49.17 | zsoc | rwhitby, a service + cpcrook's svn app = working camcorder app. It could have been done weeks ago. |
| 22:49.38 | DeCiBeL | I deobfuscated Filecoaster a long time ago |
| 22:49.48 | Decimation | lmao, guys, palm has a funny staff. |
| 22:49.49 | Decimation | http://www.palm.com/us/assets/images/support/detail/sidebar_webos_swu120.gif |
| 22:49.49 | DeCiBeL | Dude that makes it got all over me about it and has been crying foul ever since. |
| 22:49.49 | zsoc | DeCiBeL, sounds immoral |
| 22:50.10 | Decimation | change the 2 to 1 and 0 to see the old images |
| 22:50.15 | Decimation | but the new one is much better :) |
| 22:50.18 | DeCiBeL | zsoc: IN what sense? As in the word sounds funny? Or as in "don't ever do that"? |
| 22:50.28 | HattCzech | so Decimation, how do you find out about this stuff ahead of time? (1.2 release and all) |
| 22:50.51 | Decimation | HattCzech: sprint site told me all i know. |
| 22:50.59 | HattCzech | ahhh, where? |
| 22:51.06 | Decimation | go to your account on the site |
| 22:51.06 | zsoc | DeCiBeL, it's just not good habit. if they want to make closed-source software, that's their prerogative. as a user, just don't use it. deobfuscating is sleezy. |
| 22:51.10 | Decimation | then check for software updates |
| 22:51.15 | DeCiBeL | Anyway.. I had an old version of Terminal installed and Preware thought it was up to date and wouldn't allow me to install/upgrade it. |
| 22:51.19 | Decimation | it will show 1.2 with a full changelog. |
| 22:51.31 | DeCiBeL | I ended up installing it through the QuickInstall GUI |
| 22:51.32 | HattCzech | hahahaahah awesome |
| 22:51.34 | DeCiBeL | upgrading.. |
| 22:51.42 | HattCzech | released today, nice |
| 22:51.50 | DeCiBeL | But then it added a SECOND Terminal Service. |
| 22:51.57 | Decimation | HattCzech: yup |
| 22:51.59 | rwhitby | zsoc: if I had a Pre, camcorder *may* have been done weeks ago ;-) |
| 22:52.05 | Decimation | will be back in 15 minutes |
| 22:52.07 | HattCzech | send/receive vcard! heheh |
| 22:52.20 | HattCzech | thank god filtering in email |
| 22:52.33 | *** join/#webos-internals examance1 (n=examance@ip68-99-24-207.om.om.cox.net) |
| 22:52.50 | DeCiBeL | zsoc: I completely agree. I told him: If you want to make your software completely closed source.. don't program in Java/Css/Html..... (Hint, not going to happen at this time with WebOS). |
| 22:53.00 | rwhitby | DeCiBeL: I expect you didn't use -o /var when you installed it the first time. |
| 22:53.04 | DeCiBeL | Simple reason I did it was to add a seperate sort column. |
| 22:53.14 | DeCiBeL | rwhitby: Aye, I did. |
| 22:53.20 | zsoc | rwhitby, honestly there's almost nothing to it. just seems silly. i guess the point is, don't make an app if it's not fully featured. plus, at this point, i've tried to contact cpcrook for a week or more. i'd feel wrong using parts of his app. even if i remake an app from scratch, it'll be eerily similar to his |
| 22:53.41 | rwhitby | zsoc: I don't agree. Release early, release often. |
| 22:54.05 | rwhitby | zsoc: if it's open source, use it. that's what open source means. |
| 22:54.27 | zsoc | rwhitby, ok, well my awkwardness about cpcrooks progress still stands. it's like the guy did all the legwork and then vanished. I'm not so sure about the open source part, I didn't see any mention anywhere in the code about GPL or what not. I'll have to look. |
| 22:54.47 | rwhitby | if it doesn't specifically say it's open source, you can't use it. |
| 22:55.01 | rwhitby | all code is proprietary by default. |
| 22:55.08 | zsoc | Right, that's why I said that. |
| 22:55.30 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 22:55.55 | DeCiBeL | If a program is released under "GPL" it should be open-source. |
| 22:56.08 | HattCzech | zsoc, yeah, that situation is tricky... |
| 22:56.33 | HattCzech | i'm trying to make an app that i can hopefully sell, but i have no way of preventing people from using my code... |
| 22:56.45 | zsoc | DeCiBeL, well it wasn't *released* at all, just an SVN. I mean he put a note on the wiki it's ok to download it :P but that' about it |
| 22:56.50 | *** join/#webos-internals ali (n=ali@99-6-146-43.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:56.56 | zsoc | HattCzech, then don't make it on the pre. |
| 22:57.13 | HattCzech | hehehe, yeah, that's one way to do it |
| 22:57.16 | zsoc | HattCzech, or have it rely on proprietary compiled plugins and services. |
| 22:57.22 | DeCiBeL | then it should fall under the terms & conditions of the SVN host. |
| 22:57.42 | zsoc | DeCiBeL, the point is, i don't even think the guy would mind, just can't find 'im |
| 22:57.59 | DeCiBeL | True. Better to ask first. |
| 22:58.05 | HattCzech | i haven't played with plugins or services yet, but that's an idea |
| 22:58.11 | DeCiBeL | I would give it X days then just use it. |
| 22:58.16 | Decimation | zsoc: start the app |
| 22:58.23 | Decimation | don't release till you hear from him though. |
| 22:58.50 | HattCzech | so which app are you talking about? preload or something? |
| 22:59.00 | Decimation | a video camera i believe. |
| 22:59.06 | zsoc | Decimation, hm.. and now that ajames is doing all the legwork on gst plugin building... i could take the time to make the app. |
| 22:59.08 | HattCzech | ahhh |
| 22:59.22 | Decimation | zsoc: do it, it won't hurt |
| 22:59.41 | Decimation | he published all his work, i'm sure he would love to see someone make the app. |
| 22:59.57 | zsoc | Decimation, k, i'll start it a bit later. the thing is basically done. just some bug-controlling and service making. I hope making a working service isn't as difficult as i hope it's not |
| 22:59.58 | zsoc | :> |
| 23:00.45 | zsoc | until then, bbl |
| 23:01.02 | Decimation | zsoc: one more thing. |
| 23:01.24 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: what did i hear about 1.2 being out |
| 23:01.27 | Decimation | ahh, guess i missed you. |
| 23:01.38 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: sprint's site says its released today. |
| 23:01.41 | PuffTheMagic | its till not on opensource. or avail for OTA |
| 23:01.50 | zsoc | Decimation, nope, you got me |
| 23:02.18 | Decimation | zsoc: figure out how to access the camera preview yet? |
| 23:02.28 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: i never said it was out |
| 23:02.35 | Decimation | i said sprint's site says its coming. |
| 23:02.37 | zsoc | Decimation, the short answer is no, the long answer is yes |
| 23:02.40 | zsoc | or maybe the other way around |
| 23:03.02 | Decimation | any brief explaination i can get? im curious. |
| 23:03.08 | Decimation | i actually kind of looked into it, briefly. |
| 23:04.01 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: well saying that Sprint says it was releases sounds like you are saying it out :D |
| 23:04.20 | Decimation | according to sprint, it is released on 9/8/09 |
| 23:05.05 | Decimation | and thats not the dumbass customer service |
| 23:05.09 | zsoc | Decimation, will have to wait till later, really got it jet, but it involves mimicing the camera app |
| 23:05.12 | Decimation | THIS IS DA INTERWEB |
| 23:05.26 | Decimation | zsoc: i'll love to hear about it. |
| 23:06.00 | *** join/#webos-internals greg_roll (i=73810bae@gateway/web/freenode/x-ipqdcguzkfkhxmye) |
| 23:06.50 | *** part/#webos-internals FreeTim (n=freetim@31-35-93.wireless.csail.mit.edu) |
| 23:07.36 | *** join/#webos-internals corq (n=corq@140.150.121.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:07.55 | greg_roll | hello, does anyone here know where to find lunaservice.h and/or other palm include files? They are required to compile some of there open source files. Thanks |
| 23:08.33 | *** join/#webos-internals RainMan (n=Who@66.212.183.225.tor.pathcom.com) |
| 23:11.12 | corq | greg_roll, they *may* know over in #webos they deal more with the SDK, if no one is able/at keyboard to answer here |
| 23:11.44 | PuffTheMagic | greg_roll: it dont exist |
| 23:11.51 | PuffTheMagic | palm didnt give it to us |
| 23:11.56 | corq | huh |
| 23:12.09 | PuffTheMagic | greg_roll: im in the process of making my own lunaservice.h |
| 23:12.20 | PuffTheMagic | i have enough implemented that allows me to build a custom C service |
| 23:12.30 | PuffTheMagic | it might be enough to build libpurple-adapter |
| 23:12.31 | PuffTheMagic | idk |
| 23:12.34 | PuffTheMagic | havent tried yet |
| 23:12.45 | PuffTheMagic | but i can link against liblunaservice.so |
| 23:12.47 | PuffTheMagic | for my own servier |
| 23:12.49 | PuffTheMagic | service |
| 23:13.15 | *** join/#webos-internals GreedyB (n=blah@c-76-104-101-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.24 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: did that userland work out for you? |
| 23:15.16 | greg_roll | PuffTheMagic: awesome, you read my mine :) i need to compile the libpurple-adapter ;) |
| 23:16.43 | corq | if I get the notice for the update tonight, is 'quilt pop -a' all I need to do beforehand? Anything more involved? |
| 23:18.28 | greg_roll | PuffTheMagic: is there are chance you could share? Or even compile a custom libpurple-adapter from code for me? I've been working on Messenger support for the Pre |
| 23:18.47 | ajames | i'd love a copy of lunaservice.h as well |
| 23:19.30 | greg_roll | its strange to open source something but not give you all the files you need to compile |
| 23:19.54 | ajames | that is technically against the gpl |
| 23:22.50 | greg_roll | i don't know too much about the gpl but i would have to agree with you |
| 23:23.16 | ajames | from GPLv2 part 3: complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable |
| 23:23.52 | Decimation | People need to learn wtf the term "bricking and phone" means. |
| 23:23.59 | chrisa | Is there any document that gets sent to carriers that isn't immediately leaked? |
| 23:24.14 | Decimation | chrisa: what was leaked? |
| 23:25.00 | chrisa | Just looking at engadget |
| 23:25.12 | greg_roll | ajames: very good. I'll see what PuffTheMagic says about a copy of his. Maybe ill contact palm |
| 23:25.57 | chrisa | I've never even heard of prethinking |
| 23:26.36 | Eguy | oil: looks like today it really is going to come out |
| 23:26.40 | chrisa | What are people going to do if we release a new product? Will all the sites buy new domains like foobagcentral, everythingfoobag, foobagthinking? |
| 23:28.01 | corq | decimation if it's a popular product, won't matter, they'll buy those ;-) |
| 23:28.49 | Decimation | corq: excuse me? |
| 23:29.36 | corq | Doh; sorry, I scrolled up, mistook you for chrisa |
| 23:39.48 | freakout | chrisa: we at PalmInfocenter sitting pretty in that regard. :P |
| 23:39.57 | *** join/#webos-internals lizardo (n=lizardo@irc.angui.sh) |
| 23:42.39 | rwhitby | chrisa: that's why the "Pre" in "Preware" means "before", not anything to do with the trademarked "Palm Pre(accent)" ;-) |
| 23:43.09 | rwhitby | freakout: PreCentral will just create EosCentral ... |
| 23:44.39 | *** join/#webos-internals Templarian1 (n=Templari@141.218.50.71) |
| 23:46.31 | Eguy | Eosware 0.8.5 |
| 23:46.42 | chrisa | rwhitby: so will you name it postware at some point? |
| 23:47.04 | Eguy | Middleware is next chrisa ;) |
| 23:47.09 | rwhitby | chrisa: nope, cause it's always for software that is yet to be submitted or accepted by the official App Catalog. |
| 23:47.27 | chrisa | I should look into how that process is going to work |
| 23:47.47 | rwhitby | (of course Palm will need to open up the Native SDK for some of the apps to be accepted ...) |
| 23:49.16 | rwhitby | chrisa: at the moment, the process seems to be: (1) Palm checks the homebrew gallery for nice apps (2) Palm contacts the authors of those apps and asks them to submit (3) Palm reviews and asks for lots of changes (4) App finally appears in Palm App Catalog. Cycle time seems to be about a month currently. |
| 23:49.44 | chrisa | I mean the actual review once the catalog is life |
| 23:49.52 | chrisa | *live |
| 23:53.58 | HattCzech | rwhitby: do the developers get and compensation? |
| 23:54.16 | rwhitby | HattCzech: dunno - those details are kept private I expect. |
| 23:54.45 | HattCzech | ahhh okay |
| 23:56.56 | bpadalino | interesting cycle |
| 23:57.40 | rwhitby | bpadalino: that is just from my observations from authors posting on PreCentral - it may hold very little relationship to reality ;-) |
| 23:57.59 | bpadalino | who needs reality when you have PreCentral forums! :) |
| 23:58.00 | en0x | holly molly this class is so booooring |
| 23:58.23 | en0x | and redsox r playing today too |
