| 00:00.49 | Zuchmir2 | JackieRipper: what do u mean "special chars"? |
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| 00:17.53 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic, destinal, mrvc: just added auto-scrolling (to bottom) when a key is pressed |
| 00:20.01 | JackieRipper | Zuchmir2: sorry, I was in the other room |
| 00:20.26 | JackieRipper | Zuchmir2: <>^{}[]~\ |
| 00:20.36 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: re: full screen width in landscape: Mojo.View.getViewportDimensions(document).height / width should give area |
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| 00:21.07 | Zuchmir2 | lemme see, i thought they were added already |
| 00:21.12 | PuffTheMagic | i know how to change orientation |
| 00:21.15 | PuffTheMagic | whatim worried about is... |
| 00:21.22 | PuffTheMagic | if we have a big fat header at the top |
| 00:21.25 | PuffTheMagic | for the menu |
| 00:21.34 | PuffTheMagic | and the notifications at the bottom |
| 00:21.42 | PuffTheMagic | then in wide mode there will be not much space |
| 00:21.49 | PuffTheMagic | so full screen in any orientation is a must |
| 00:21.58 | PuffTheMagic | but we need to make a nice slick menu |
| 00:22.04 | PuffTheMagic | we cant use appMenu in fullscreen |
| 00:22.09 | PuffTheMagic | so we have to use viewMenu |
| 00:22.15 | PuffTheMagic | but make it look like appMenu |
| 00:22.22 | Zuchmir2 | ywhat's wrong w/appmenu? |
| 00:22.31 | PreGame | appMenu doesn't show in fullscreen |
| 00:22.35 | PuffTheMagic | nothing... except that it does not run in full screen |
| 00:22.43 | Zuchmir2 | u want to get rid of clock etc? |
| 00:23.07 | PuffTheMagic | its more about preventing the notifications at the bottom |
| 00:23.11 | PuffTheMagic | and if the clock were not at the top |
| 00:23.19 | PuffTheMagic | then we could move the keylock indicator up there |
| 00:23.31 | PuffTheMagic | while we figure out how to make the nice inline indicator |
| 00:24.30 | PuffTheMagic | an if we are full screen then we dont have to deal with resizing the height when the notification shit pops up |
| 00:24.30 | Zuchmir2 | how bad are notifications? |
| 00:24.30 | PreGame | you could try and use javascript to make your own menu similar to the appmenu |
| 00:24.41 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: i tried |
| 00:24.44 | PuffTheMagic | i failed |
| 00:24.48 | PuffTheMagic | my css skills suck |
| 00:24.49 | PreGame | make it like the appmenu that appears like the viewmenu when the screen is tapped |
| 00:25.09 | PreGame | if you make the javascript i will do the css |
| 00:25.10 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: i couldnt figure out the templates/classes to reuse the appMenu |
| 00:25.23 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: have you tried using templates yet |
| 00:25.28 | PreGame | just make the javascript have a box and i will add the images etc |
| 00:25.36 | PreGame | yea i've used templates for lists |
| 00:25.54 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: i "had" a viewMenu working once |
| 00:26.05 | PuffTheMagic | its pretty trivial to get it working |
| 00:26.09 | PreGame | yep |
| 00:26.10 | PuffTheMagic | it should be in the git history |
| 00:26.22 | PreGame | i was going to use one for fileCoaster the beginning version but it was a pain |
| 00:26.23 | PuffTheMagic | but i couldnt make it look exactly like the app menu |
| 00:26.32 | PuffTheMagic | pain++ |
| 00:26.49 | PreGame | palm sucks at their documentation/tutorials for the sdk |
| 00:26.51 | PuffTheMagic | my Pre dev work is my first reall css and js experience |
| 00:27.02 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: yeah they are pretty half assed |
| 00:27.07 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: i would guess that Mojo.View.getViewportDimensions(document).height / width would resize based on notifications |
| 00:27.15 | PuffTheMagic | but it was released before they intended due to the leak |
| 00:27.31 | PreGame | true so i guess i can't complain |
| 00:27.32 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i dont want to resize based on notifactions |
| 00:27.36 | PuffTheMagic | thats the hole point |
| 00:27.43 | PuffTheMagic | we are limited with space as it is |
| 00:27.49 | PuffTheMagic | we dont need notifications taking up more space |
| 00:27.53 | PreGame | i wouldn't use a header |
| 00:27.58 | PreGame | make the header dissapear |
| 00:28.05 | PreGame | like a viewMenu |
| 00:28.20 | PreGame | use banners |
| 00:28.25 | PuffTheMagic | ehh |
| 00:28.27 | Zuchmir2 | can we use popmenu? |
| 00:28.27 | PreGame | banners will go away after 5 seconds |
| 00:28.51 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: we need a header/menu to access the new terminal and preferences options |
| 00:29.01 | PreGame | you know what would be a kick ass app? |
| 00:29.05 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: yes we can use a popup but that has to be tied to a button |
| 00:29.19 | PuffTheMagic | and a button has to be in a appmenu or viewmenu essentially |
| 00:29.19 | PreGame | a plugin that lets you use the USB cable to hook up to a computer monitor and see the pre on the monitor |
| 00:29.47 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: id never use anything like that |
| 00:29.54 | PreGame | what about making it so the gesture area will make the menu appear |
| 00:30.14 | PuffTheMagic | well sure |
| 00:30.21 | PuffTheMagic | but we still need a viewMenu |
| 00:30.24 | Zuchmir2 | or gesture+orange |
| 00:30.24 | PuffTheMagic | that dont look like shit |
| 00:30.40 | PuffTheMagic | and a view menu that looks like the appmenu would be best imo |
| 00:30.44 | PuffTheMagic | even if it autohides |
| 00:30.58 | PreGame | view the sdk for the appmenu and create a custom menu |
| 00:31.01 | PuffTheMagic | or is triggered by a key/gesture binding |
| 00:31.26 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: i tried that for about a day but my css/js/mojo skills suck |
| 00:31.36 | PuffTheMagic | im a linux expert with some C/C++/java skillz |
| 00:31.38 | PuffTheMagic | ;_ |
| 00:31.40 | PuffTheMagic | :) |
| 00:31.58 | PuffTheMagic | expert/addict |
| 00:32.57 | PreGame | if you can get the viewmenu you had in git working i can come up with some css to make it look nice |
| 00:33.17 | PreGame | just make it display a crappy menu and i will add all the effects |
| 00:33.36 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: all you need to do is change the appMenu code to viewMenu really |
| 00:33.45 | PuffTheMagic | its 95% the same code |
| 00:33.49 | PuffTheMagic | just different class |
| 00:34.00 | PuffTheMagic | except |
| 00:34.08 | PreGame | yea but appmenu stations it in a predefined location while view menu we decide where to put it. |
| 00:34.13 | PuffTheMagic | it does not have a default popup menu like appmenu did |
| 00:34.20 | PreGame | i can take a look at it, at a later date but i have a few projects i have to complete |
| 00:34.43 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: yeah i have a lot on my plate too so this is not too high on my todo list |
| 00:34.47 | PuffTheMagic | i need to find a new car |
| 00:35.01 | PreGame | PuffTheMagic: Use the findMyCar app :P |
| 00:35.02 | PuffTheMagic | cause i rearended someone a week ago |
| 00:35.16 | PuffTheMagic | PreGame: I found a car, test driving it tomorrow |
| 00:35.20 | PuffTheMagic | 350Z :D |
| 00:35.26 | PreGame | nice |
| 00:35.32 | PuffTheMagic | 6sd[ |
| 00:35.34 | PuffTheMagic | spd |
| 00:35.44 | PuffTheMagic | its so damn hard to find a manual |
| 00:36.08 | PuffTheMagic | w/ a v6 |
| 00:36.30 | PuffTheMagic | unless i wanted a mustang |
| 00:36.35 | PuffTheMagic | there are tons of those |
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| 00:40.08 | Zuchmir2 | JackieRipper: <>^ should be easy (Shift + ,.6), whereas {}[]~\` are a bit more tricky, where would u expect them mapped to? |
| 00:40.55 | Decimation_ | hey guys :) |
| 00:41.22 | JackieRipper | Zuchmir2: I have no idea... perhaps an on-screen row? |
| 00:41.29 | JackieRipper | hi Decimation_ |
| 00:41.47 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: btw w/my latest patch u have access to mojo calls from within plugin |
| 00:41.52 | Decimation_ | whats up JackieRipper |
| 00:42.13 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: you are generating keystate events? |
| 00:42.27 | PuffTheMagic | i dont want to poll the plugin for them |
| 00:42.37 | PuffTheMagic | if i have to do that i'd rather listen to them from mojo |
| 00:42.40 | PuffTheMagic | and skip the plugin |
| 00:42.49 | JackieRipper | Zuchmir2: won't shift + 6 = "G" ? |
| 00:43.35 | Zuchmir2 | no, i'm generating mojo calls |
| 00:43.43 | PuffTheMagic | what do u mean? |
| 00:43.52 | Zuchmir2 | JackieRipper: u are right, but perhaps orange+shift+6 |
| 00:44.28 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: calling this.scroller.mojo.revealBottom() from within plugin... |
| 00:44.39 | PuffTheMagic | oh |
| 00:44.56 | PuffTheMagic | well you need to figure out how to generate events for the keystate |
| 00:45.18 | Zuchmir2 | which means u don't have to mix JS with C to do various functions |
| 00:45.29 | Zuchmir2 | what do u mean by that? |
| 00:45.38 | Zuchmir2 | why do u need events? |
| 00:46.01 | PuffTheMagic | cause i dont want the plugin drawing that ugly yellow box with the keystates |
| 00:46.09 | PuffTheMagic | i want the mojo to display the key states |
| 00:46.43 | PuffTheMagic | so i can listen to the key events directly in mojo |
| 00:46.43 | PuffTheMagic | or i can listen to the plugin |
| 00:46.43 | PuffTheMagic | if it generates events |
| 00:46.45 | Zuchmir2 | oh, so u can expose a function, pass the object to the plugin, then plugin calls the function in JS |
| 00:46.57 | PuffTheMagic | something like that |
| 00:47.21 | PuffTheMagic | but i dont really understand why the plugin is keeping track of state |
| 00:47.29 | PuffTheMagic | the plugin should just be reacting to events |
| 00:49.43 | Zuchmir2 | say this.keyStates(shift, ctrl, alt, gesture), then call this.termplugin.keyStateFunction(this)... |
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| 00:50.14 | Zuchmir2 | and whenever there a keystate change this app sends the *text* to display in each state |
| 00:50.48 | PuffTheMagic | why would it send text? |
| 00:50.48 | Zuchmir2 | the plugin is eeping track of the tri-state, as otherwise: 1) the user doesn't know the state, and 2) the app doesn't know the state |
| 00:51.03 | PuffTheMagic | the app could know the state |
| 00:51.08 | PuffTheMagic | if it listened to the events |
| 00:51.15 | PuffTheMagic | the plugin doesnt need to do it |
| 00:51.24 | Zuchmir2 | because there are 3 posibilities for each key, i can send numbers, but text is clearer |
| 00:51.41 | PuffTheMagic | why does the plugin need to do that |
| 00:51.53 | PuffTheMagic | what does the plugin do with that info |
| 00:51.58 | PuffTheMagic | beside draw the yellow box |
| 00:52.02 | Zuchmir2 | if u put debug code in the app, u will see that the keyboard does NOT keep all states as we need them |
| 00:52.04 | PuffTheMagic | with the text in it |
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| 00:52.29 | Zuchmir2 | it uses it to know when the 'g' is 'g', 'G' or '6' |
| 00:53.01 | Zuchmir2 | ... or right |
| 00:53.16 | Zuchmir2 | ... (w/gesture area) |
| 00:53.30 | PuffTheMagic | well i want a way to display the keystate in mojo |
| 00:53.34 | PuffTheMagic | thats all i am saying |
| 00:53.38 | PuffTheMagic | i dont care how it happenes |
| 00:54.02 | Zuchmir2 | that's fine, five me a function such as this.keyStates(shift, ctrl, alt, gesture), then call this.termplugin.keyStateFunction(this)... |
| 00:55.12 | PuffTheMagic | i'd rather use ints not strings |
| 00:55.17 | PuffTheMagic | strings are slower to parse |
| 00:55.24 | Zuchmir2 | ok, so u want 0, 1, 2 |
| 00:55.29 | PuffTheMagic | and a struct/object with every keys state in it would be even better |
| 00:55.41 | Zuchmir2 | that's easier on the C as well, as that's how it's stored |
| 00:55.51 | PuffTheMagic | cool |
| 00:56.22 | Zuchmir2 | but remeber there's 3 posibilities each: "", "Shift", "*Shift" |
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| 00:57.09 | Decimation_ | destinal: i figured out how to fix the problem with like, page indicators going off screen, and the apps being spaced to the right too much |
| 00:57.48 | Decimation_ | http://is.gd/2c8mI <-- original version |
| 00:58.04 | Decimation_ | http://is.gd/2cwP6 <-- new version |
| 00:58.26 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: btw can u think of a better name for that object than keyStatesParentObj? |
| 00:59.11 | Zuchmir2 | Decimation_: is the difference the backgound conversation? :-) |
| 00:59.30 | Decimation_ | :P cant stop talkin to cindy :) |
| 00:59.43 | Zuchmir2 | Decimation_: looks better centered |
| 00:59.48 | Decimation_ | yeah |
| 00:59.52 | Decimation_ | and the page indicators are fixed |
| 00:59.53 | Zuchmir2 | did u update the wiki page for that? |
| 01:00.12 | Decimation_ | not yet |
| 01:00.15 | Decimation_ | kinda lazy |
| 01:00.29 | Zuchmir2 | i know that feeling |
| 01:02.01 | Decimation_ | lol |
| 01:02.07 | Decimation_ | i dont even totally remember what i changed |
| 01:02.13 | Decimation_ | cant i just like, make a patch for it? |
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| 01:04.06 | Decimation_ | Zuchmir2: so do you think it looks nice? |
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| 01:04.31 | Zuchmir2 | i think it's diff oldfile newfile |
| 01:04.39 | Zuchmir2 | yes, it looks nice |
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| 01:08.23 | JackieRipper | Decimation_: you can also bring the names closer to the icons |
| 01:08.52 | Decimation_ | JackieRipper: do you know where that is located in the code, or are you just making a suggestion? |
| 01:09.05 | JackieRipper | Decimation_: in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/app/controllers/launcher-assistant.js |
| 01:09.13 | JackieRipper | this.kAppHeight = 70; |
| 01:09.26 | JackieRipper | right below where you changed this.kAppWidth = 58; |
| 01:09.36 | JackieRipper | and then in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/stylesheets/launcher.css |
| 01:09.48 | JackieRipper | top: 48px; |
| 01:10.13 | JackieRipper | those values work pretty well along with the changes on the wiki page |
| 01:10.59 | JackieRipper | sorry, top: 48px; is in the ".launcher_page .name" block |
| 01:11.18 | Decimation_ | yeah, figured it out. |
| 01:11.37 | Decimation_ | kk, let me see how this looks with my changed |
| 01:11.39 | Decimation_ | changes* |
| 01:11.47 | Decimation_ | then i'll make a patch out of it,. |
| 01:12.21 | JackieRipper | heh... I actually already submitted a quilt patch |
| 01:13.02 | Decimation_ | hah, well i changed some stuff :/ |
| 01:13.07 | JackieRipper | I've been going through the different mods in the wiki that aren't yet in the modifications repo and making patches |
| 01:13.11 | Decimation_ | centered it, fixed page indicators. |
| 01:13.26 | JackieRipper | Decimation_: clone git and replace :) |
| 01:13.37 | Decimation_ | JackieRipper: holy shitt, these icons are close |
| 01:13.47 | Decimation_ | i could probably fit 30 on a page |
| 01:13.55 | JackieRipper | I think 25 |
| 01:13.58 | JackieRipper | 5x5 |
| 01:14.47 | Decimation_ | no, i gotta change this back |
| 01:14.50 | Decimation_ | i cant even reorder icons |
| 01:14.53 | Decimation_ | its so laggy. |
| 01:17.26 | Decimation_ | JackieRipper: editing the kAppheight is what caused it.. let me mess around with it and try to fix... making text closer to the icon works fine still though. |
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| 01:17.55 | JackieRipper | caused lag? |
| 01:18.09 | Decimation_ | i couldnt rearrange icons.. lol |
| 01:18.25 | JackieRipper | weird... works fine for me |
| 01:19.07 | JackieRipper | weird... now I can't |
| 01:19.18 | JackieRipper | it's like I got one shot to move something |
| 01:22.12 | Decimation_ | lol |
| 01:22.18 | Decimation_ | im slowly decreasing the app height |
| 01:22.21 | Decimation_ | 90 worked fine |
| 01:22.23 | Decimation_ | trying 80 |
| 01:23.07 | Decimation_ | nope, 80 doesnt work |
| 01:23.27 | Decimation_ | JackieRipper: let me pump it up to 85 |
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| 01:24.44 | Decimation_ | nope |
| 01:24.54 | Decimation_ | 90+ is the only functional values. |
| 01:26.15 | Decimation_ | so 90 for app height, along with 48 in the css file, is PERFECT for this. |
| 01:26.17 | JackieRipper | does that line actually need to be modified? |
| 01:27.27 | Decimation_ | which line? |
| 01:27.31 | Decimation_ | the appheight? |
| 01:28.03 | Decimation_ | 90 allows for 4 apps per column, perfectly actually. |
| 01:29.00 | Rick_home | egaudet: so, where are you on keyboard? Anything to share? |
| 01:29.28 | egaudet | I split off into two parts |
| 01:29.35 | Rick_home | nodnod |
| 01:29.55 | JackieRipper | Decimation_: awesome |
| 01:29.56 | egaudet | First I did a proof of concept that I can get the keyboard to appear when hitting the gesture area from a text box |
| 01:30.02 | Rick_home | ok |
| 01:30.13 | Decimation_ | JackieRipper: I'll make a patch for it in a minute |
| 01:30.28 | Rick_home | Palm's keyboard, or you call to a MODIFIED popupkeyboard routine? |
| 01:30.41 | egaudet | I've gone through the framework and have a relatively good idea how they do the symbols, and I plan to make the keyboard a watered down version of it at first (copy the CharSelector class to OnScreenKeyboard and patch the rest of framework to see it like it sees CharSelector) |
| 01:31.53 | egaudet | I've also created an app to test that I can get the keyboard layout to look ok, 4 rows, entire width of screen |
| 01:32.07 | Rick_home | ok |
| 01:32.26 | Rick_home | willing to share? or post code to git? |
| 01:32.28 | egaudet | so I have all the parts floating around and now I have to carefully put it together to make a good patch that won't effect the rest of the framework and will hopefully be compaitible for future |
| 01:32.58 | egaudet | Yes, if you want to see any of it now I have a lot of console.log debugs all over. |
| 01:33.10 | Decimation_ | yay. pizzas here |
| 01:33.10 | Rick_home | I would LOVE to see it. |
| 01:33.12 | egaudet | I'm hoping to maybe MIT it in case Palm wants to put it in |
| 01:33.18 | Rick_home | yep |
| 01:33.54 | Rick_home | it could be the app that brings a LOT of people to preware. |
| 01:33.56 | Decimation_ | egaudet: anyway i can check it out also? :) |
| 01:34.09 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: adding some code which will require: USE_MOJO_FOR_KEYSTATE defined to see the effect, initialize with: this.termplugin.keyStatesParentObj = this; and make sure u have a function this.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift) |
| 01:34.13 | egaudet | Yea, let me verify the file works |
| 01:34.30 | Rick_home | webos quick install from PC or Preware from ipkg feed, poof - on screen keyboard. |
| 01:34.48 | Rick_home | and since it inherits from palm's existing symbol keyboard it automagically deals with landscape mode |
| 01:34.55 | egaudet | boo yah |
| 01:35.25 | Rick_home | egaudet: are you ok if I post a screenshot of where you are in the precentral thread? |
| 01:35.35 | egaudet | yea I'm fine with that |
| 01:35.43 | Rick_home | coolness. |
| 01:35.54 | Rick_home | and congrats on hitting a nail that was really sticking up. |
| 01:36.06 | egaudet | though a screenshot of it right now is just gonna be the symbol keyboard on screen, maybe with a bunch of a's |
| 01:36.12 | Decimation_ | egaudet: if you want another tester, im here :) the on-screen keyboard interest me most next to video. |
| 01:36.17 | egaudet | i'll throw up my app too |
| 01:36.19 | egaudet | screenshot that one |
| 01:37.04 | egaudet | ok give me like 30 minutes to clean up a little and verify it works |
| 01:38.17 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-227-177-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 01:38.25 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: just pushed that, haven't tested, but should work... |
| 01:39.17 | Rick_home | Decimation_: did I see that you're working on a lauch panel re-configurer to allow more icons per page? |
| 01:39.54 | Decimation_ | http://is.gd/2cBUq |
| 01:40.11 | Decimation_ | Rick_home: look good? :) |
| 01:40.28 | Rick_home | NICE!!! |
| 01:40.31 | Rick_home | making a patch? |
| 01:40.40 | Decimation_ | mhm |
| 01:40.50 | Decimation_ | never actually made one before |
| 01:40.54 | Rick_home | me either |
| 01:41.00 | Decimation_ | but the file conflicts with the launcher pages? |
| 01:41.18 | Rick_home | with the add-pages-to-launcer mod? |
| 01:41.43 | Rick_home | So, you need two versions of the patch? one WITH add pages and one WITHOUT? |
| 01:41.50 | Rick_home | and a conditional script? |
| 01:41.56 | Rick_home | someone here OUGHT to be able to help you. |
| 01:42.11 | *** join/#webos-internals Decimation (n=chatzill@d192-24-56-160.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 01:43.03 | *** join/#webos-internals drnull_ (n=Jamie@va-76-1-143-155.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 01:44.05 | Decimation | Rick_home: so do you like it? |
| 01:44.27 | Rick_home | you didn't see NICE!!! about 10 lines up? |
| 01:44.42 | Decimation | :P so thats a yes. |
| 01:44.46 | Rick_home | nodnod |
| 01:44.54 | Decimation | my first mod, im pretty happy with it :) |
| 01:45.04 | Decimation | with the help of destinal and JackieRipper of course. |
| 01:45.17 | JackieRipper | Decimation: Nice work! Looks smooth |
| 01:45.33 | *** join/#webos-internals sevensoft (n=seven@c-24-0-220-35.hsd1.de.comcast.net) |
| 01:45.55 | Decimation | thanks |
| 01:46.01 | Decimation | im leaving tomorrow morning |
| 01:46.05 | Decimation | only reason im not being so lazy |
| 01:46.18 | JackieRipper | Decimation: I would just incorporate the add/remove pages into your patch |
| 01:46.22 | Rick_home | Decimation are you going to make a wiki page about this patch? Please pretty please? |
| 01:46.36 | Rick_home | that's a good idea JackieRipper |
| 01:46.43 | JackieRipper | Rick_home: it's already there |
| 01:46.50 | Decimation | Rick_home: there is one, but dont follow those instructions |
| 01:46.53 | Rick_home | ahhhhh |
| 01:46.57 | Decimation | i'm gonna update it, there are some problems with it. |
| 01:46.59 | Rick_home | well, that's my point actually. |
| 01:47.06 | Rick_home | can we have a good one? Please? |
| 01:48.49 | Decimation | instructions will tell you how to make it look exactly like mine |
| 01:50.39 | *** join/#webos-internals dreadchicken (n=deadchic@64.218.49.154) |
| 01:50.39 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v dreadchicken] by ChanServ |
| 01:50.48 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: please double check http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/a45462e758db7e06f71ee76eda9bbed6ea066013, and lemme know if that was declared properly |
| 01:52.19 | Decimation | okay |
| 01:52.22 | Decimation | i have on my desktop |
| 01:52.25 | Decimation | the two modified files |
| 01:52.28 | Decimation | and the two original files |
| 01:52.33 | Decimation | what do i do to make a patch |
| 01:53.07 | JackieRipper | Decimation: do you have quilt installed? |
| 01:53.17 | *** join/#webos-internals tharris- (n=none@pool-96-228-230-11.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:53.17 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v tharris-] by ChanServ |
| 01:53.26 | Decimation | i think, lol |
| 01:53.30 | tharris- | evening |
| 01:53.43 | JackieRipper | Decimation http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Removing_all_patches |
| 01:53.47 | JackieRipper | oops |
| 01:53.47 | Rick_home | tharris-: evening |
| 01:53.58 | JackieRipper | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Creating_a_patch |
| 01:54.01 | JackieRipper | sorry |
| 01:54.13 | tharris- | if anyone has an LG ENV 2 you should read my blog =p |
| 01:54.14 | Rick_home | tharris-: exciting news.. egaudet has cracked the on-screen-keyboard goal. ! |
| 01:54.23 | tharris- | Wow! grats |
| 01:54.57 | tharris- | im pressive |
| 01:55.46 | rwhitby | Rick_home: url? |
| 01:55.54 | Rick_home | proof of concept he says at this point, but he can bring up a keyboard using the gesture area, and it has normal letters in it, but functions like palm's on-screen symbol kb except it doesn't go away when you type. |
| 01:56.09 | Rick_home | rwhitby: he'ls going to post a url in here in a little bit. |
| 01:56.22 | tharris- | fantastic news |
| 01:56.53 | Rick_home | but he's using the charselector class that's in framework -- the thing that makes the symbol table, which we have been talking about for about 2 weeks, and he's figure out how to patch it. |
| 01:57.30 | Rick_home | and his idea is better than mine was. I was editing the sym + period table. He's making a new class, and instantiating it with a gesture when in a text box. |
| 01:57.38 | Rick_home | demo app sometime tonight. |
| 01:58.09 | *** join/#webos-internals summatusmentis (n=summatus@keymaster.tproa.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:58.30 | Rick_home | once again proving that people who understand what's going ON in the programing can do more than people who do not. |
| 01:58.34 | Rick_home | 'cause I -never- understood the charselector class. |
| 01:58.34 | Decimation | so wait |
| 01:58.44 | Decimation | i put the original files on my pre |
| 01:58.50 | Decimation | then add them to the patch |
| 01:58.55 | Decimation | then put the modified one it |
| 01:58.57 | Decimation | and refresh |
| 01:59.03 | Decimation | and it tracks the changes and makes the patch |
| 02:00.31 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: the part in the constructor is wrong |
| 02:00.33 | *** join/#webos-internals Ingenium13 (n=josh@CMU-292144.WV.CC.CMU.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:00.41 | Zuchmir2 | Decimation: try diff oldfile newfile |
| 02:00.44 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@173-117-19-158.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 02:01.08 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: please explain |
| 02:01.11 | PuffTheMagic | you want to do it like the keydown handler |
| 02:01.32 | Zuchmir2 | ok, i see |
| 02:01.53 | Zuchmir2 | SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift) |
| 02:02.02 | Zuchmir2 | is that correct? |
| 02:03.21 | PuffTheMagic | in the constructor you want something like this: |
| 02:03.22 | PuffTheMagic | this._onKeyStateEventHandler = this._onKeyStateEvent.bind(this); |
| 02:03.32 | JackieRipper | Decimation: correct... you you have commit access to gitorious? |
| 02:04.16 | Zuchmir2 | do i need a bind? |
| 02:04.16 | Zuchmir2 | can't i just call the function? |
| 02:04.17 | Decimation | JackieRipper |
| 02:04.17 | Decimation | i dont think so |
| 02:04.17 | Decimation | can i just send you the patch |
| 02:04.17 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i beleive the bind() is how JS lets you pass a function as a variable |
| 02:04.17 | JackieRipper | Decimation, email me the patch... I'l commit it |
| 02:04.21 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: just like u can use a pointer for a function in C |
| 02:04.29 | Decimation | JackieRipper: email is... |
| 02:04.38 | JackieRipper | pm |
| 02:05.34 | rwhitby | Decimation: if the patch is well-formed, we'll give you gitorious commit access. |
| 02:06.02 | Decimation | rwhitby: okay |
| 02:06.07 | Decimation | JackieRipper: sent |
| 02:06.18 | Zuchmir2 | would it not work with a simple: SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift) |
| 02:06.18 | Decimation | hope i did it right, lol |
| 02:06.39 | Zuchmir2 | is the problem that the "this" doesn't get passed to it? |
| 02:08.45 | Decimation | http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/zune-hd-video-hands-on-chock-full-of-media-edition/ |
| 02:08.49 | Decimation | sososososososo smoothhhh. |
| 02:11.20 | Zuchmir2 | is this.keyStatesChanged = this._keyStatesChanged.bind(this); / SessionAssistant.prototype._keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift){} correct? |
| 02:20.20 | Decimation | JackieRipper: does all and all look fine? |
| 02:20.37 | JackieRipper | having trouble applying it... but it may be me |
| 02:20.39 | JackieRipper | heh |
| 02:20.56 | Decimation | do you currently have the launcher pages mod on? |
| 02:22.52 | JackieRipper | I had done it manually... and I just found the typo I made undoing it |
| 02:22.55 | JackieRipper | heh |
| 02:23.15 | JackieRipper | I did /* at the end, rather than */ |
| 02:23.25 | Decimation | lol |
| 02:23.27 | JackieRipper | looks good |
| 02:23.33 | JackieRipper | committing it now |
| 02:23.50 | Decimation | JackieRipper: beautiful, thanks for your help with it. |
| 02:24.21 | *** join/#webos-internals muchtall (n=muchtall@75-146-189-25-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:25.09 | Rick_home | Decimation: 1) update the wiki |
| 02:25.20 | Decimation | ughhh :P |
| 02:25.33 | Rick_home | 2) find those "Launcher doesn't allow enough apps" threads in precentral and POINT TO THE WIKI PAGE. :-) |
| 02:25.36 | Rick_home | 3) bow |
| 02:25.48 | Rick_home | the jobs not done until the paperwork is complete |
| 02:26.13 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor_ (n=edektor@static-208-187-122-54.bbsc.net) |
| 02:26.31 | Rick_home | egaudet: got into making it pretty since I said I was going to do a screenshot, didn't he? |
| 02:26.49 | Decimation | Rick_home: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row |
| 02:26.57 | Decimation | i think im just gonna delete all that |
| 02:27.09 | Decimation | and just add the patch |
| 02:27.14 | Decimation | and link to the applying patches page |
| 02:27.37 | JackieRipper | Decimation: mention that the patch in in the modifications repo - luna/more_icons_per_row.patch |
| 02:28.00 | Rick_home | Decimation: put the fully qualified lnk to the patch onto the page. |
| 02:28.06 | Rick_home | and yes, delete all that |
| 02:28.13 | Rick_home | since it's all in history if someone wants it. |
| 02:28.24 | Rick_home | and make sure you label it as 1.1 safe |
| 02:30.03 | *** join/#webos-internals BrettQ (n=hokie36@cpe-098-122-127-057.sc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:30.26 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano1 (n=christef@prod01.pvpn.ewr.witopia.net) |
| 02:35.23 | *** join/#webos-internals netz (n=zn3t@pool-74-99-50-60.chrlwv.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:36.50 | Decimation | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row |
| 02:41.25 | Decimation | rwhitby: can i get commit access? |
| 02:45.03 | Rick_home | Decimation: instead of the link to the screenshot, make a line like this [[Image: 5by7Launcher.png]] then click that link and upload your screenshot. |
| 02:45.40 | *** join/#webos-internals netz_ (n=zn3t@pool-74-99-38-79.chrlwv.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:47.23 | Decimation | better? |
| 02:49.34 | max_ | Decimation: have you looked into increasing the number of rows by decreasing the space between them? |
| 02:50.03 | max_ | even if you couldn't fit an entire row in you could at least be able to see the tops of the icons and figure out what they are |
| 02:50.05 | Decimation | max_: I did that, there are now 4 rows, instead of 3 |
| 02:50.16 | Rick_home | better |
| 02:50.20 | Rick_home | I floated it right. |
| 02:50.24 | Rick_home | but left might be better |
| 02:50.27 | max_ | oh, nvm then. |
| 02:50.43 | Decimation | thats how i am keeping it, if you want more, you'll have to edit the file yourself |
| 02:51.21 | max_ | Decimation: looks good. when my new cable comes tomorrow this will be one of the first things I do. |
| 02:51.58 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-74-107-130-207.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:52.24 | Decimation | max_: glad to hear it :) |
| 02:52.51 | *** join/#webos-internals thatdude (i=thatdude@server1.bshellz.net) |
| 02:53.32 | kesne | Hello all! |
| 02:53.39 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@71-80-53-188.dhcp.mant.nc.charter.com) |
| 02:53.57 | Rick_home | hi ho |
| 02:53.58 | egaudet | fahgetaboutit |
| 02:54.12 | Rick_home | ok egaudet no pressure no worries |
| 02:54.16 | egaudet | lol |
| 02:54.35 | egaudet | this palm framework is annoying |
| 02:55.32 | egaudet | im reverting to the ugly debugging file that actually doesn't crap out on launch |
| 02:55.38 | Rick_home | no shit egaudet |
| 02:55.55 | egaudet | want me to git the patch |
| 02:59.37 | egaudet | where do you want the patch? |
| 03:00.18 | egaudet | how do i screenshot from phone? |
| 03:00.30 | *** join/#webos-internals netz (n=zn3t@pool-74-99-38-79.chrlwv.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:01.19 | thatdude | egaudet: Orange+Sym+P |
| 03:01.38 | egaudet | it goes to /media/internal? |
| 03:01.58 | thatdude | egaudet: Yes, creates a folder called screenshot or something. |
| 03:02.11 | thatdude | egaudet: You can view them on your photo app as well. |
| 03:03.33 | egaudet | cool |
| 03:03.45 | egaudet | whats the best place to upload it quick for everyone to see |
| 03:07.05 | *** join/#webos-internals rawdaedfish (n=chatzill@pool-71-186-194-70.bflony.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:09.14 | egaudet | debugging patch pushed in... have a screenshot of the CSS modified to a better keyboard size... where do i upload it |
| 03:10.39 | Decimation | http://imageshack.us/ |
| 03:10.45 | thatdude | egaudet: http://imageshack.us/ |
| 03:10.48 | Decimation | egaudet, go there, upload, then post the direct link here. |
| 03:10.56 | Decimation | thatdude: weird, we both posted that.. lol |
| 03:10.59 | thatdude | egaudet: http://tinypic.com/ |
| 03:11.11 | thatdude | Decimation: haha |
| 03:11.38 | Decimation | egaudet: when are you going to make it public? |
| 03:12.16 | egaudet | http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9963/kbtest20091108230156.png |
| 03:12.27 | egaudet | I uploaded the patch to git/modifications/ |
| 03:12.35 | egaudet | the patch does NOT include the layout of the screenshot |
| 03:13.07 | egaudet | i am integrating now, cleaning up the debugging, making it more Palm-friendly |
| 03:16.49 | Decimation | okay, how do i access it? |
| 03:16.53 | Decimation | i installed the patch |
| 03:19.42 | rawdaedfish | hello all, quilt question, i had the full version of quilt on the pre, but i just removed it and installed quilt-lite, i then imported the actual battery % patch, ran quilt push and got "File series fully applied, ends at patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch" and then stop LunaSysMgr && start LunaSysMgr |
| 03:19.44 | rawdaedfish | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:20.16 | rawdaedfish | how do i clear out the series so that i can apply the batter patch? |
| 03:21.20 | *** join/#webos-internals kmax12 (n=kmax12@c-67-173-9-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.48 | *** join/#webos-internals heisenman (n=heisenma@adsl-99-31-167-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:22.10 | heisenman | hello |
| 03:22.26 | Decimation | egaudet: can you post the patch somewhere so i can manually do it? |
| 03:22.34 | egaudet | the patch is in git |
| 03:22.50 | Decimation | idk where to get it, im not familiar with all this stuff |
| 03:22.52 | Decimation | lol |
| 03:22.56 | egaudet | make sure you backup entire frameworks directory first |
| 03:23.00 | heisenman | I may have the wrong channel, I'm trying to get a little help changing some file permissions inside of /media/internal inside of my Pre. |
| 03:23.16 | heisenman | Is that webos, or here at -internals? (Assuming here, but I could be wrong) |
| 03:23.54 | egaudet | http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/raw/master/onscreen_keyboard/kb.patch |
| 03:23.58 | rawdaedfish | heisenman: what do you need to do? |
| 03:23.58 | egaudet | Decimation, |
| 03:24.08 | egaudet | Decimation, if you install that patch, backup frameworks first please |
| 03:24.30 | heisenman | I've used the tutorial at the webos-internals site to set up samba3, and I have it running more or less well, serving up my /media/internals directory as a share on the network. |
| 03:24.38 | heisenman | I can see my files, open them, play videos, whatever... |
| 03:25.06 | heisenman | But I don't have write access, because I'm authenticated as a user who has no permission to any files/folders from /media/internal on down |
| 03:25.07 | Decimation | egaudet: lol, way to much for me to do. |
| 03:25.14 | Decimation | but i cant seem to install it with quilt. |
| 03:25.50 | heisenman | I set up my account as primary group users (edited /etc/passwd manually, shoot me later), then tried to chown -R /media/internals with group users |
| 03:25.52 | egaudet | it's just a .patch, i'm not too familiar with quilt and just did a diff -uNrp |
| 03:26.01 | heisenman | and I get ... Operation not permitted |
| 03:26.03 | heisenman | As root. |
| 03:26.24 | heisenman | With the filesystem mounted rw still (I think, I haven't reset it to ro yet) |
| 03:26.59 | heisenman | As a digression, is /media/internals a separate filesystem that I can have constantly mounted rw, or am I just keeping everything open forever? |
| 03:27.32 | *** join/#webos-internals X1011 (n=X1011@129.110.194.15) |
| 03:28.09 | heisenman | (I'm a VERY inexperienced just-barely-enough-to-be-dangerous network administrator at my company, with ~10 years experience doing minimal installation/setup of mainly redhat-based distros. This stuff is getting way over my head) |
| 03:28.16 | *** join/#webos-internals Sedorox (i=brandon@web1.smart-serv.net) |
| 03:29.19 | Decimation | egaudet: patch wont install. |
| 03:29.44 | rawdaedfish | heis: i have ubuntu on my home pc and samba on it, not super experienced either, have not tried samba on the pre though, so i can't really help |
| 03:30.05 | egaudet | go to /usr/palm |
| 03:30.11 | egaudet | cp -rL frameworks frameworks.bak |
| 03:30.11 | heisenman | nodnod |
| 03:30.25 | egaudet | copy the patch to /usr/palm/kb.patch |
| 03:30.31 | egaudet | go to /usr/palm if not there already |
| 03:30.48 | egaudet | patch -p1 < kb.patch |
| 03:30.53 | egaudet | this is NOT the supported or desired way |
| 03:31.06 | *** part/#webos-internals X1011 (n=X1011@129.110.194.15) |
| 03:31.10 | egaudet | and you better make sure you backup ! :) |
| 03:31.26 | heisenman | The part that kills me is that I can't chown files AS ROOT. That makes no sense to me. Unless I'm not "root", because there seem to be multiple instantiations of infrastructure keeping certain aspects of the device discreet from each other. |
| 03:31.50 | heisenman | Also something I've sorta seen in a few places (specifically these little one-function devices, like the Pre and NAS boxes) but I don't know how all of the pieces interact with each other. |
| 03:32.01 | heisenman | Does anyone know why you can't chown a file in /media/internals? |
| 03:32.35 | heisenman | Or, well, if you know, you probably can. So I guess I mean why I can't. |
| 03:33.54 | rawdaedfish | heis: i get the same thing trying to chown the havefun.mp4 file |
| 03:34.00 | heisenman | nod |
| 03:34.07 | heisenman | root, non-root, it's all the same. |
| 03:34.19 | Technobabble | heisenman, it's vfat |
| 03:34.19 | Zuchmir2 | becuase that filesystem is FAT32 |
| 03:34.21 | rawdaedfish | and i "sudo su - " first |
| 03:34.49 | Zuchmir2 | ... which doesn't support users |
| 03:34.50 | heisenman | ah. If it's vfat, no unix permissions, hence no access in that manner... |
| 03:34.54 | heisenman | nod, I see. |
| 03:35.11 | heisenman | The original purpose was to be able to drag and drop files from windows |
| 03:35.14 | Decimation | egaudet: how do i use the keyboard? |
| 03:35.23 | Zuchmir2 | it would be in the /etc/fstab that u can set who's perm is on that FS |
| 03:35.26 | egaudet | wow that whole time my problem was a stupid comma!! arg |
| 03:35.32 | egaudet | Decimation, hit the gesture area when text area is up |
| 03:36.09 | heisenman | Alternatively, would simply setting...hm. |
| 03:36.13 | Decimation | i guess i didnt install it right |
| 03:37.28 | heisenman | I see the fstab, and it looks...different than I'm used to. |
| 03:37.32 | egaudet | did you reboot LunaSysMgr after installing |
| 03:37.42 | Decimation | pkill LunaSysMgr |
| 03:38.05 | heisenman | There appears to be no explicit entry about /media/internal (I'm right that this is where you normally store user files?) |
| 03:38.32 | heisenman | ah, my fault, it's at the end. |
| 03:39.55 | *** join/#webos-internals AgentSmith (n=AgentSmi@71.237.95.188) |
| 03:42.16 | heisenman | gah, I'm chickening out. Before I leap, I'm thinking about changing: |
| 03:42.40 | heisenman | dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,shortname=mixed 0 0 |
| 03:43.10 | heisenman | to dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,gid=100,shortname=mixed 0 0 |
| 03:43.24 | heisenman | But I could brick it if I'm not careful. |
| 03:44.05 | heisenman | Been a while since I modified this part of the fstab, but that would set the folder/files permissions to group users, no? |
| 03:44.44 | JackieRipper | heisenman: that would change the group protecting /media/internal ro users |
| 03:44.51 | JackieRipper | but would not affect permissions |
| 03:44.57 | heisenman | gah. |
| 03:45.03 | heisenman | Glad I didn't jump then. |
| 03:45.05 | Decimation | edgaudet: yeah, just cant get it workin :/ |
| 03:45.07 | JackieRipper | that is, if group does not have write access... |
| 03:45.32 | egaudet | i'll have a new cleaner one soon |
| 03:45.34 | heisenman | so should I explicitly add in user,rw ? |
| 03:45.45 | JackieRipper | hmm |
| 03:45.47 | JackieRipper | one sec |
| 03:46.15 | *** join/#webos-internals jrmuizel (n=jrmuizel@CPE001f5be79d0f-CM0017ee62f8b0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:46.56 | JackieRipper | I would do uid=1001 (or the uid of your user) |
| 03:47.21 | Decimation | egaudet: i just dont get why this one wont install |
| 03:47.39 | heisenman | hm |
| 03:47.40 | heisenman | ok |
| 03:48.13 | heisenman | fstab now shows: |
| 03:48.26 | heisenman | dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,shortname=mixed,uid=1001 0 0 |
| 03:48.41 | heisenman | Rebooting, let's see what happens. |
| 03:50.02 | egaudet | did the output of patch -p1 look oK? |
| 03:50.04 | *** join/#webos-internals lclarkjr (n=lclarkjr@179.195.101.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:52.04 | lclarkjr | has anyone successfully compiled directvnc on the pre? |
| 03:53.27 | Decimation | lmao, guys, i made it, so the quick launch allows 5 apps |
| 03:53.41 | Decimation | but the when i moved the 5th app on there, i know it went to it |
| 03:53.44 | Decimation | but it doesnt show up |
| 03:54.11 | Decimation | like.. it dissappeared from the launcher |
| 03:54.20 | heisenman | SWEET ACTION. |
| 03:54.21 | Decimation | but it doesnt show up on the quicklaunch |
| 03:54.28 | heisenman | JackieRipper, danke very mucho. |
| 03:54.37 | heisenman | That did the trick. |
| 03:54.45 | Decimation | destinal, JackieRipper: you guys here? |
| 03:54.51 | JackieRipper | I'm here |
| 03:54.55 | JackieRipper | heisenman: cool |
| 03:55.09 | Decimation | canAddDockPoint: function(launchPointId) { |
| 03:55.11 | Decimation | return this._quicklaunchApps.length < 4 || this.getDockPoint(launchPointId) != null; |
| 03:55.13 | Decimation | }, |
| 03:55.14 | Decimation | i found that function |
| 03:55.16 | Decimation | changed 4 to 5 |
| 03:55.25 | Decimation | it allowed me to drag to icon over the quicklaunch |
| 03:55.32 | Decimation | and it removed it from the launcher |
| 03:55.41 | Decimation | but now the icon is gone, magically vanished. |
| 03:55.43 | heisenman | Very. I'm not sure if this would be considered a security issue, but adding it to the webos-internals website for installing samba would probably help a LOT of people get r/w access to their Pre. |
| 03:56.03 | JackieRipper | heisenman: what about sftp ? |
| 03:56.27 | heisenman | Jackie: wouldn't the same issue apply? You don't have user permissions for file creation. |
| 03:57.13 | heisenman | I had a hell of a day, but I vaguely remember trying winscp once as an alternate method. |
| 03:57.15 | JackieRipper | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP |
| 03:57.19 | heisenman | Same issue, more or less. |
| 03:57.23 | JackieRipper | this has been scripted |
| 03:57.26 | heisenman | Er. Let me read that tutorial. |
| 03:57.48 | JackieRipper | it's part of the optware setup script here http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps |
| 03:58.04 | *** join/#webos-internals oil (n=oil@66-189-216-38.dhcp.ykma.wa.charter.com) |
| 03:58.38 | Decimation | okay, so i figured out how to actually add the 6th icon to the quicklaunch |
| 03:58.38 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@66.60.188.8) |
| 03:58.44 | Decimation | now i dont know how to make it show up :/ |
| 03:58.47 | heisenman | I'm confused... |
| 03:59.02 | heisenman | I actually did follow the next_steps tutorial, all except for installing quilt. |
| 03:59.31 | heisenman | Where does it say to change user id for the filesystem? Or is that supposed to be part of the shell script? |
| 04:00.04 | JackieRipper | sorry, I meant installing and configuring sftp is part of the next_steps script |
| 04:00.45 | JackieRipper | In WinSCP, check 'Advanced Options' and select "Environment>SFTP". In the SFTP server box enter: sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server |
| 04:01.26 | heisenman | Ah. Ok... |
| 04:02.10 | heisenman | Even there, I just don't see the place where you set file permissions to allow for file creation. I'm willing to believe that installing the sftp server makes some changes to the fstab, but perhaps there's an intricacy I'm missing. |
| 04:02.19 | Decimation | ive put my phone in a weird situation |
| 04:02.34 | JackieRipper | heisenman: running something with sudo = running as root |
| 04:02.43 | Decimation | when i drag an icon over the quicklauncher, it makes the icon dissappear from my launcher... |
| 04:02.45 | heisenman | got it. |
| 04:02.46 | Decimation | then when i restart luna |
| 04:02.47 | heisenman | HAH. |
| 04:02.48 | Decimation | its back |
| 04:03.19 | *** join/#webos-internals Eguy (n=Eguy@cpe-76-172-219-51.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 04:03.21 | heisenman | Well, I definitely see the advantage in keeping everything as root... |
| 04:03.43 | heisenman | But I'm happy to just require authentication of a non-root user for samba purposes :) |
| 04:03.49 | *** join/#webos-internals derek_ (n=derek@72.128.35.239) |
| 04:03.54 | heisenman | But thank you, that approach is one I hadn't thought of. |
| 04:04.02 | JackieRipper | samba is rather huge, though |
| 04:04.26 | heisenman | Agreed. Someone on some forum (pre-somethingoranother) claimed to have gotten samba2 working instead of samba3. |
| 04:04.38 | heisenman | Cuts the install size by a lot, I think. |
| 04:05.00 | JackieRipper | how big is it, though? Where are they installing? |
| 04:05.30 | heisenman | Either way, one way or another having windows-based drag and drop over the network is quite useful. No more plugging the phone into the computer (unless you calendar sync) |
| 04:05.54 | Decimation | gotta love winscp :) |
| 04:06.03 | JackieRipper | it may be useful for some.... |
| 04:06.05 | JackieRipper | :) |
| 04:06.13 | JackieRipper | I don't actually have a win box |
| 04:06.22 | heisenman | I envy you. |
| 04:06.23 | Decimation | :P |
| 04:06.32 | Decimation | have a fruit? |
| 04:06.38 | JackieRipper | hell no |
| 04:06.41 | JackieRipper | :-P |
| 04:06.45 | heisenman | I've ended up in so much hardware hell I've almost had to give up on linux as a main OS. |
| 04:07.00 | heisenman | Almost everything non-desktop is some variant of unix still, however. |
| 04:07.14 | Decimation | windows 7 is my love. |
| 04:07.24 | heisenman | And, with luck, all of the hardware issues go away when any and all tv tuner cards just stop working :P |
| 04:07.42 | JackieRipper | heh |
| 04:08.34 | heisenman | bbiab |
| 04:10.04 | Decimation | egaudet: http://webos.pastebin.com/m50ca4bbb |
| 04:10.17 | Decimation | what i get when i try to install your patch |
| 04:11.01 | JackieRipper | Decimation: it looks like you are in a directory other than where the patch was created |
| 04:12.05 | Decimation | JackieRipper: what should i go to then? |
| 04:12.10 | JackieRipper | not sure |
| 04:12.21 | Decimation | # You should still be in the / directory to run quilt. |
| 04:12.22 | Decimation | quilt push |
| 04:12.22 | JackieRipper | I'm trying to figure out what is getting patched |
| 04:12.26 | *** join/#webos-internals AgentSmith (n=AgentSmi@71.237.95.188) |
| 04:12.28 | Decimation | thats from the wiki |
| 04:12.31 | Decimation | says i have to be in / |
| 04:12.41 | egaudet | what did you use to patch it? |
| 04:12.41 | JackieRipper | is that a quilt patch? And was he in / when he created it? |
| 04:12.48 | egaudet | not quilt |
| 04:12.51 | egaudet | just a diff -uNrp |
| 04:12.57 | egaudet | base is /usr/palm |
| 04:13.31 | Decimation | idk what to do with that :/ |
| 04:13.37 | Decimation | im not linux-savy just quite yet.. lol |
| 04:14.13 | JackieRipper | Decimation: cd /usr/palm ; patch < /path/to/file.patch |
| 04:16.52 | Decimation | http://webos.pastebin.com/m1b4b569 |
| 04:17.44 | Decimation | JackieRipper, egaudet: i just don't know what it wants from me.. lol |
| 04:17.58 | *** join/#webos-internals Rick_home (n=chatzill@wsip-24-249-130-185.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 04:18.26 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Rick_home] by ChanServ |
| 04:18.46 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@adsl-69-227-177-116.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 04:20.56 | JackieRipper | odd |
| 04:21.22 | egaudet | http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/158/browser20091208001720.png |
| 04:21.24 | egaudet | :D |
| 04:21.31 | egaudet | get your backup back Decimation |
| 04:23.33 | Decimation | kk, i reverted back to my backup |
| 04:23.34 | egaudet | Rick_home, you still around |
| 04:25.19 | Rick_home | got tossed |
| 04:25.21 | Rick_home | just got back |
| 04:25.42 | Decimation | egaudet: whenever you release a version i can install, tell me :P |
| 04:26.20 | *** join/#webos-internals destinal (n=destinal@97-112-146-152.clsp.qwest.net) |
| 04:26.21 | egaudet | check the screenshot :) and now I want to make a legit patch for people to use... who's gonna walk me through it ?? :( |
| 04:26.41 | Decimation | like, a quilt patch? |
| 04:26.45 | Decimation | i just made my first one today, i could help. |
| 04:26.48 | destinal | egaudet: which screenshot |
| 04:26.49 | egaudet | yea |
| 04:26.49 | rwhitby | egaudet: our patches are all rooted at /, not /usr/plam |
| 04:27.01 | egaudet | http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/158/browser20091208001720.png |
| 04:27.06 | egaudet | ok |
| 04:27.15 | destinal | nice |
| 04:27.27 | Decimation | destinal: i found a file that allowed me to add one more icon to the quicklaunch |
| 04:27.39 | destinal | cool |
| 04:27.42 | rwhitby | egaudet: I can take you through the patch creation process |
| 04:27.49 | Decimation | the display didnt change on the quicklaunch, but when i dragged it over the quicklaunch, it removed from the launcher. |
| 04:27.52 | egaudet | rwhitby, ok lets do it |
| 04:27.55 | Decimation | now i just gotta find that. |
| 04:28.01 | egaudet | I just copied the entire frameworks directory from my pre to my pc |
| 04:28.11 | rwhitby | egaudet: you're on the Applying_Patches page? |
| 04:28.26 | rwhitby | egaudet: BTW, I find the emulator the easiest place to create patches |
| 04:28.34 | Decimation | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches |
| 04:30.31 | egaudet | ok let me run the quilt-lite upgrade |
| 04:32.10 | Rick_home | WHAT A GREAT IMAGE |
| 04:32.11 | Rick_home | cool |
| 04:32.15 | Rick_home | thanks egaudet |
| 04:32.42 | egaudet | I'm so happy to have gotten through the framework i think i saved a copy to 5 different places lol |
| 04:33.18 | egaudet | I'm going to try to echo all of the submissions/ into a big file one day and see how close it matches the big framework file |
| 04:34.11 | egaudet | Hmmm ok |
| 04:34.20 | egaudet | so i'm ready to quilt |
| 04:34.35 | egaudet | do i need a "virgin" copy of the pre rootfs |
| 04:34.49 | egaudet | or is quilt just going to patch the files I request? |
| 04:35.17 | Decimation | egaudet: you add the unedited files |
| 04:35.27 | Decimation | then replace them with your modifed ones |
| 04:35.31 | Decimation | and run the refresh command |
| 04:35.39 | Decimation | it it creates the patch by looking at the changes |
| 04:38.06 | rwhitby | egaudet: you need virgin copies of all the files that are going to be touched |
| 04:38.31 | rwhitby | then you need to tell quilt about every file you are going to touch, *before* you touch it. |
| 04:38.47 | rwhitby | (so it can squirrel away the unedited version, and then diff against it later) |
| 04:40.07 | Decimation | JackieRipper: do you need to remove the add/delete launcher pages mod to install mine correctly? |
| 04:40.14 | JackieRipper | Decimation: yes |
| 04:41.00 | JackieRipper | I'm still trying to figure out how to remove a patch |
| 04:41.05 | JackieRipper | I can remove them all |
| 04:41.12 | JackieRipper | which is what I've been doing |
| 04:41.25 | Decimation | lol, kk, some guy asked on pre central and i didnt know the answer.. lol |
| 04:41.41 | JackieRipper | quilt pop -a ; quilt delete /opt/src/patches/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch ; quilt push -a |
| 04:42.13 | *** join/#webos-internals netz_ (i=LOLbot@pool-74-99-38-79.chrlwv.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:42.52 | JackieRipper | that will revert all patches, remove the add/delete launcher pages mod from the group of patches, then reapply the rest of the patches |
| 04:43.28 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@66.60.188.8) |
| 04:43.52 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: I just quilt pop -a, then quilt import or quilt new. no need to delete patches |
| 04:44.32 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: Decimation's patch incorporates and expands the add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch |
| 04:44.52 | JackieRipper | so we're trying to unapply /opt/src/patches/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch |
| 04:44.53 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: ah, ok. |
| 04:45.19 | Decimation | rwhitby: yeah, my patch assumes you dont have the add-delete-pages patch installed. |
| 04:45.26 | egaudet | damnit |
| 04:45.30 | egaudet | i just quilt add to like 10 files |
| 04:45.35 | egaudet | and then quilt files says no patches applied |
| 04:45.47 | Decimation | did you add the original files? |
| 04:45.55 | egaudet | yea |
| 04:45.57 | Decimation | okay |
| 04:46.01 | Decimation | now once you do that |
| 04:46.16 | egaudet | oh wrong window |
| 04:46.17 | egaudet | nm |
| 04:46.24 | Decimation | lol |
| 04:46.37 | Decimation | after you add them |
| 04:46.45 | Decimation | just replace them with modified files and run quilt refresh |
| 04:46.45 | JackieRipper | egaudet: add, edit, refresh |
| 04:47.10 | Decimation | rwhitby: can i get commit access to git. |
| 04:47.17 | egaudet | get it got it good |
| 04:48.49 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: just clone it and and push to your private one and i will merge in your changes |
| 04:48.57 | PuffTheMagic | someone will get sick of that and add you eventually |
| 04:49.13 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: rwhitby is in the process of switching us over to a new git server anyway |
| 04:49.31 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: gotcha, thanks. |
| 04:49.53 | egaudet | so im supposed to do git remote rm origin |
| 04:49.57 | rwhitby | Decimation: I haven't had a chance to look at your patch yet, but yes, if it's well formed you will. |
| 04:50.08 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet: no |
| 04:50.19 | egaudet | that's what the wiki say |
| 04:50.35 | Decimation | rwhitby: okie dokie. |
| 04:50.39 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet: why would you do this? |
| 04:50.43 | PuffTheMagic | maybe i am missing something |
| 04:50.57 | PuffTheMagic | hasnt done that in 2 years of using git |
| 04:51.22 | egaudet | that's why i didn't do it, it sounded funny |
| 04:51.25 | egaudet | but the wiki says to |
| 04:51.37 | PuffTheMagic | origin is "typically" the name of the main repo that you have push access to |
| 04:51.42 | egaudet | anyhow i just git commit on my pre |
| 04:51.42 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: the patch applied cleanly on my pre, for what it's worth |
| 04:51.45 | egaudet | so git push should work? |
| 04:51.48 | PuffTheMagic | the name on your local box |
| 04:52.01 | PuffTheMagic | what is the link to this wiki |
| 04:52.05 | PuffTheMagic | wiki page |
| 04:52.11 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet: i dont really know what u are doing |
| 04:52.11 | egaudet | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches |
| 04:52.20 | egaudet | pushing on screen keyboard patch |
| 04:52.21 | *** join/#webos-internals Ingenium13 (n=josh@c-71-199-97-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:52.21 | PuffTheMagic | so unless you say why you were gonna do that then i cant help |
| 04:52.45 | egaudet | i quilted it, and it's in /opt/source/modifications/OnScreenKeyboard git commited |
| 04:54.37 | PuffTheMagic | i dont advise using git and quilt together |
| 04:55.10 | egaudet | I used quilt to create the patch |
| 04:55.15 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: what's wrong with keeping a git repo of quilt patches? |
| 04:55.22 | egaudet | now i have the .patch i need to push it in |
| 04:55.32 | PuffTheMagic | there is no such thing as a "quilt patch" |
| 04:55.35 | PuffTheMagic | there are just patches |
| 04:55.42 | egaudet | a patch via quilt |
| 04:55.46 | egaudet | a patch made using quilt |
| 04:56.16 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: have you read the Applying Patches page? |
| 04:56.33 | rwhitby | egaudet: you've done the right thing |
| 04:56.54 | rwhitby | egaudet: how did you choose the subdirectory name in which you put the patch? |
| 04:57.24 | PuffTheMagic | its just a mess and very complicated for git noobs, it has people doing things with out giving them an idea why they are doing it |
| 04:57.31 | egaudet | I made it OnScreenKeyboard, but I want it to be onscreen_keyboard like the last checkin, so i gotta uncommit this on my pre |
| 04:57.39 | egaudet | im just gonna copy the file out to my pc and git it |
| 04:57.48 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: then please write a better process. until then, that process stands. |
| 04:58.29 | *** join/#webos-internals Adora (n=adora@wsip-72-214-61-23.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 04:58.34 | Decimation | http://webos.pastebin.com/m2eb082c |
| 04:58.37 | PuffTheMagic | well the whole idea of storing diffs in a git repo is stilly since a diff of a diff isnt gonna make much sense |
| 04:58.38 | egaudet | should i name the subdirectory framework? |
| 04:58.45 | PuffTheMagic | but i understand we cant post whole palm code |
| 04:58.47 | Decimation | any idea why someone would get that error while trying to install my patch? |
| 04:59.00 | PuffTheMagic | its just a a very weird system |
| 04:59.08 | rwhitby | egaudet: in which directory on the Pre are the files modified? |
| 04:59.16 | egaudet | /usr/palm/frameworks |
| 04:59.19 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: what's your alternative? |
| 04:59.27 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: yeah because you created the diff int he wrong directory and applied it with the wrong patch command |
| 05:00.04 | rwhitby | egaudet: ok, so it should be in a frameworks subdir, and name the patch a-really-long-name-that-says-what-it-does-functionally.patch |
| 05:00.32 | egaudet | add-onscreen-keyboard.patch |
| 05:00.39 | egaudet | or just onscreen-keyboard.patch |
| 05:00.41 | rwhitby | yup |
| 05:00.48 | rwhitby | either is fine |
| 05:01.08 | rwhitby | make sure that patch has / as the origin for the filenames in it |
| 05:01.20 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: so what would the person who tried to apply it do to make it work? |
| 05:01.25 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: ftp? idk havent really thought of a better way, its just like, a really weird way of using git |
| 05:01.45 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: git is just the distribution mechanism. think of them as binary files, not patches. |
| 05:01.50 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: they dont need to be in /, they can just cd into the correct directory and use the right -p# command |
| 05:01.58 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: like i said i get why its being done |
| 05:02.04 | PuffTheMagic | its just..... ugly |
| 05:02.10 | Decimation | JackieRipper: did you let quilt install my patch or do it manually? |
| 05:02.15 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: they need to be /, so that there is *one* way to apply them |
| 05:02.15 | PuffTheMagic | a bad first impression for git users |
| 05:02.22 | JackieRipper | Decimation: quilt |
| 05:02.56 | Decimation | JackieRipper: okay, just makin sure it works.. lol, it isnt working for this guy who posted on my precentral thread, and idk what to tell him, im not familiar with this stuff :/ |
| 05:02.57 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: what is wrong with using git to store patches? git is simply a content management system. |
| 05:03.02 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: people should learn to use patch properly, telling them to "just do it this way" does not make people learn |
| 05:03.08 | PuffTheMagic | then we have issues like Decimation has |
| 05:03.44 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: people installing the patches usually arent looking to learn, just modify their phone. |
| 05:03.58 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: I'd have to say it's an extremely common way to use git - a repository of revision-controlled files |
| 05:04.14 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: if you want to change the process, change the *whole* process and surrounding infrastructure. don't just butt in a lead someone down the wrong path on one single tiny item of the process and confuse everything. |
| 05:04.24 | Rick_home | EVENTUALLY what we're going to want is a Webos-internals PATCHING APP |
| 05:04.25 | JackieRipper | the fact that the files are not source code may be a bit odd, granted |
| 05:04.43 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: there's nothing that says git needs to control source code |
| 05:04.54 | rwhitby | git is *intentionally* content agnostic |
| 05:04.56 | Decimation | http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/197904-how-get-more-icons-row-launcher.html |
| 05:04.59 | Rick_home | which will take patches, and apply them.... and Aunt Mimzy can do it. |
| 05:05.02 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: agreed... that's just its most common use |
| 05:05.03 | Decimation | if anyone knows how to fix that guys problem, feel free to reply |
| 05:05.17 | egaudet | Ok patch is in |
| 05:05.54 | Rick_home | until then, all this command-line complex stuff is WAY BEYOND Aunt Mimzy. We need the file-coaster of patching programs. :-) |
| 05:05.56 | egaudet | Now when I update the custom files I added that are in that patch, i gotta go through that whole quilt process again |
| 05:06.22 | rwhitby | egaudet: quilt pop back to the specific patch, then modify the files, then quilt refresh |
| 05:06.29 | JackieRipper | Decimation: are you referring to intro's post? |
| 05:06.46 | *** join/#webos-internals ircNuser (n=email@ppp-69-230-120-171.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 05:06.58 | ircNuser | 60 app limit, you got to be kidding meh |
| 05:06.59 | JackieRipper | he has applied the add/delete pages mod, but most likely not using patch |
| 05:07.02 | PuffTheMagic | why are people not using git to create patches? |
| 05:07.11 | rwhitby | egaudet: does the palm code you are patching really have no indentation? |
| 05:07.21 | egaudet | rwhitby, REALLY |
| 05:07.26 | egaudet | you don't even want to get me started |
| 05:07.27 | JackieRipper | hunks 2 and 3 of your patch replicate that mod |
| 05:07.29 | Decimation | JackieRipper: yes |
| 05:07.32 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: cause then you need to git add / on the Pre. |
| 05:07.41 | JamesBaud | 60 app limit, you got to be kidding meh |
| 05:08.07 | egaudet | they take all their javascripts, throw them into one huge file with terrible indentation and call it a day |
| 05:08.24 | egaudet | So difficult to debug that missing comma i had earlier lol |
| 05:09.13 | Rick_home | rwhitby Framework.js has not QUITE been minified, but it has been de-spaced, de-commented and de-indented. |
| 05:09.23 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: something wrong with doing dev work on a desktop/laptop instead of a pre |
| 05:09.29 | PuffTheMagic | then only applying the final product to the pre |
| 05:09.33 | heisenman | so just for those of us who came in late... |
| 05:09.35 | PuffTheMagic | use quilt on the pre fine |
| 05:09.42 | PuffTheMagic | use git to create the patch on the desktop |
| 05:09.50 | Rick_home | rwhitby, it's the equivalent of compiled code. the source is in the charselector app class files, and it's quite NICELY indented. |
| 05:09.59 | Decimation | egaudet: keyboard looks nice |
| 05:10.04 | Decimation | needs a backspace thoughhh. |
| 05:10.18 | egaudet | yea I was too tired to add anything other than the alphabet for now |
| 05:10.51 | Rick_home | heisenman: for those who came in late, egaudet has solved the on-screen-keyboard problem. |
| 05:10.55 | egaudet | tomorrow i'll have a good detailed list of ideas on where to expand and start getting it functional. My idea is to mimic the look/layout of the hard keyboard |
| 05:11.39 | Decimation | egaudet: sounds great, cant wait. |
| 05:11.43 | Rick_home | amazing work sir. And my hats off to you for the bravery to dig into framework |
| 05:11.54 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: and if people cant be bothered to learn patch they have no business hacking the pre |
| 05:11.55 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: how should two patches that conflict be handled? |
| 05:12.05 | PuffTheMagic | the program is dead simple |
| 05:12.13 | *** join/#webos-internals netz_ (n=zn3t@pool-74-99-38-79.chrlwv.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:12.28 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: my take on this, is that it should all be noob friendly. |
| 05:12.45 | Decimation | you shouldn't have to learn to modify your phone, its the ease of use. |
| 05:12.46 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: we are not at that state at this point |
| 05:12.53 | egaudet | Rick_home, heh thanks, I only wish I could have edited the nicer-looking submissions/ files. Tomorrow we can get a nice list of things we want to do to the kb |
| 05:12.57 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: this is hacking an interface |
| 05:13.02 | PuffTheMagic | this is not installing a plug and play app |
| 05:13.06 | PuffTheMagic | there is learning |
| 05:13.13 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: it depends.... |
| 05:13.22 | Rick_home | PuffTheMagic: this COULD be installing a plug and play app |
| 05:13.25 | PuffTheMagic | this is not noob territory |
| 05:13.26 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: well plug and play is all the general community wants. |
| 05:13.27 | Rick_home | we could make a PATCHING APP |
| 05:13.36 | Rick_home | that Aunt Mimzzy could use. |
| 05:13.39 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: we are working to that |
| 05:13.39 | JackieRipper | I'm with Rick_home |
| 05:13.57 | PuffTheMagic | we should no be holding peoples hands using git and quilt and patch |
| 05:13.59 | PuffTheMagic | that is crazy |
| 05:14.05 | Decimation | Rick_home: patches should be built into the app installer. |
| 05:14.14 | Rick_home | actially, of course, the reality is if we get preware working |
| 05:14.17 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: Decimation patched an app to make it cooler... what's wrong with sharing that with n00bs? |
| 05:14.23 | Rick_home | the ipkg can run a post-install file |
| 05:14.31 | Rick_home | and the post-install file can do anything INCLUDING a patch |
| 05:14.37 | Rick_home | and have dependencies. |
| 05:14.39 | Rick_home | so, |
| 05:14.41 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: share it all you want, dont come here for help applying it |
| 05:14.57 | egaudet | what happens when we start having multiple patches in the same area that conflict |
| 05:15.13 | Rick_home | egaudet: that's the tricky part isn't it? |
| 05:15.19 | Decimation | egaudet: that has already happened with my patch, and im concerned about it as well. |
| 05:15.24 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: a simple script could use -p[1-9] and apply any patch regardless of where it was based |
| 05:15.46 | PuffTheMagic | patches based at / make things harder |
| 05:16.04 | Rick_home | Decimation: -- the solution we saddly can't use is to distribute the patched version of the file.... :-( |
| 05:16.11 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: i came here asking for help so IIIII could learn. |
| 05:16.16 | egaudet | The only solution I can think of is making patches required |
| 05:16.24 | Rick_home | dependencies. |
| 05:16.26 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: but you said you didnt want to learn patch |
| 05:16.27 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: making things n00b friendly is what quieted all the n00b chatter in here... since the boot strap scripts have been put out there, 99% of the "I need help rooting my pre" have been eliminated. I, for one, don't care if people don't know what the script does, as long as it works for them |
| 05:16.31 | Rick_home | patch 1 is dependent on patch 2 |
| 05:16.36 | Rick_home | which is dependent on patch 3 |
| 05:16.41 | Rick_home | and IPKG HANDLES DEPENDENCIES |
| 05:16.44 | Decimation | PuffTheMagic: I do, but the people using my patch don't |
| 05:16.52 | Rick_home | so if we package patches as ipkg's we're all set. |
| 05:17.00 | Decimation | I'm here to learn, but I also want to be able to help those who just want to easily modify their phone. |
| 05:17.10 | egaudet | Patches are clearly the trickiest part of this all, and I think we should design strict rules/formats for the process |
| 05:17.19 | Rick_home | nodnod |
| 05:17.29 | Rick_home | quilt helped. |
| 05:17.33 | egaudet | maybe start with Palm base and do numbered patches, any subsequent patch must be patched against entire patched tree |
| 05:17.34 | PuffTheMagic | yes and diffs should be made within the source directory |
| 05:17.36 | Rick_home | but it isn't the magic we hoped it would be. |
| 05:17.58 | Rick_home | numbered patches with DEPENDENCIES |
| 05:18.08 | Rick_home | you can patch email without having to path launcher... |
| 05:18.17 | PuffTheMagic | actually i am against putting patches in ipkgs |
| 05:18.22 | JackieRipper | Rick_home: there's never going to be perfect magic. Some patches will conflict |
| 05:18.27 | Rick_home | but if you do the resize patch to launcher you HAVE TO have installed the pages patch |
| 05:18.35 | Rick_home | Jackie I know that, |
| 05:18.49 | Rick_home | and of couse, then, programmers will be making NEW ONES. |
| 05:18.56 | Rick_home | there's no true magic solution. |
| 05:19.09 | Rick_home | but a dependency tree would help. |
| 05:19.15 | Rick_home | ok |
| 05:19.19 | Rick_home | I'm off to bed |
| 05:19.22 | *** join/#webos-internals dkirker1 (n=dkirker1@c-98-207-83-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:19.33 | Rick_home | if someone comes up with a clever plan.... write it up and post it |
| 05:19.44 | egaudet | yea sleep sounds good, good night all |
| 05:19.52 | Rick_home | congrats egaudet |
| 05:21.55 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: is there a particular reason diffs should be made in the source dir? |
| 05:22.08 | JackieRipper | other than common usage? |
| 05:24.32 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: : our patches are rooted at /, so that *all* the information required to apply the patch is included in the same file. |
| 05:24.54 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: otherwise, you also need to distribute *where* you need to run the patch from, or what the -pN value should be. |
| 05:25.05 | rwhitby | This is an interchange format. |
| 05:26.12 | rwhitby | as Rick_zzzzz says, this will be wrapped in convenience just like we wrapped the bootstrap scripts. |
| 05:26.42 | rwhitby | And unless you hand-hold people through the process manually, you have no idea what eventualities the scripted version needs to handle |
| 05:27.14 | rwhitby | (cause the people writing the scripts will not have the weird preconditions that a new user will have when running the script) |
| 05:27.18 | PuffTheMagic | there are gonna be so many conficts when people start patching everything, they better learn to use patch properly |
| 05:27.35 | heisenman | Speaking of using patch properly... |
| 05:27.37 | JackieRipper | I'm also a bit confused... isn't this the place noobs *should* come to get help applying patches? |
| 05:27.45 | heisenman | I got an error message trying to import a patch: |
| 05:27.45 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: no |
| 05:27.49 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: yes |
| 05:27.56 | JackieRipper | lol |
| 05:28.01 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: but only if they are willing to learn |
| 05:28.05 | heisenman | Applying patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch |
| 05:28.05 | heisenman | patching file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher/appinfo.json |
| 05:28.05 | heisenman | Hunk #1 FAILED at 5. |
| 05:28.05 | heisenman | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher/appinfo.json |
| 05:28.05 | heisenman | Patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch does not apply (enforce with -f) |
| 05:28.14 | *** join/#webos-internals nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org) |
| 05:28.19 | heisenman | Should I force, or is this something I should be worrying about? |
| 05:28.23 | PuffTheMagic | this is a place peopel should come to discuss development |
| 05:28.28 | JackieRipper | I would not force it |
| 05:28.29 | rwhitby | this is not the spoon feeding place, but it is the teaching a man to fish with the pre-configured fishing rod you sold him place |
| 05:28.30 | PuffTheMagic | not to learn how to apply patches |
| 05:28.51 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: they should make their own fishing rod too |
| 05:28.53 | PuffTheMagic | ;) |
| 05:29.00 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: they will, eventually. |
| 05:29.07 | PuffTheMagic | no they wont |
| 05:29.15 | PuffTheMagic | not with all this hand holding |
| 05:29.29 | JackieRipper | I guess I'm in the wrong place then |
| 05:29.29 | rwhitby | we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. |
| 05:29.44 | Technobabble | heh, i got a new pre last night |
| 05:29.52 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: you're the classic example. You learnt enough to create the bootstrap scripts and make it easy for everyone else. |
| 05:29.53 | Technobabble | and by "new' i mean refurb |
| 05:30.02 | Technobabble | and it looks like it was already novacom'd |
| 05:30.03 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: i am usually in the minority around here |
| 05:30.05 | rwhitby | JackieRipper is the existence proof. |
| 05:30.07 | PuffTheMagic | so dont go running away |
| 05:30.50 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: it's true that a good many people won't learn. but if you don't teach, then you won't find the diamonds in the rough like JackieRipper |
| 05:31.16 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: i have no patience for people that want to hack on a linux box but wont learn what they are doing |
| 05:31.18 | *** join/#webos-internals rboatright (n=rboatrig@wsip-70-184-238-31.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 05:31.18 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v rboatright] by ChanServ |
| 05:31.23 | JackieRipper | rwhitby: In some form or another, I'm in Unix tech support, though I don't interact with users very much as late |
| 05:31.32 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: and i didnt mean you in that statement |
| 05:31.34 | PuffTheMagic | just in general |
| 05:31.56 | rwhitby | If I hadn't taught JackieRipper about optware bootstrap, I would have needed to write an maintain that bootstrap script myself. Now I know that JackieRipper will maintain it, and I don't have to lift a finger. That's how the community scales. |
| 05:32.02 | heisenman | Puff: I may be a culprit here. |
| 05:32.11 | egaudet|Away | We could create a cumulative patch area |
| 05:32.12 | JackieRipper | I'm much more of an admin than a developer... |
| 05:32.16 | heisenman | I'd like to say not in my defense but by way of explanation: |
| 05:32.24 | heisenman | I've never worked in a developer linux environment. |
| 05:32.40 | heisenman | Git/SVN/chrooted structures etc are just something I've never had to use. |
| 05:32.42 | PuffTheMagic | its like if I (a non mac uses) installed a mac and the first thing i wanted to do was edit system extension |
| 05:32.49 | PuffTheMagic | s/uses/user/ |
| 05:32.49 | egaudet|Away | with strict behavior guidelines. i.e. any patch must be user-configurable from user area |
| 05:32.57 | rwhitby | egaudet|Away: cumulative patches are handled by ipkg dependencies. the real unsolved area is alternate patches (like the week and month default view patches for the calendar) |
| 05:33.02 | JackieRipper | which is to say, I've very good at automating processes, and helping noobs, and not at all good at development |
| 05:33.23 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: i firmly believe that ipkgs should only be for apps that do not touch palm files |
| 05:33.27 | egaudet|Away | rwhitby, and what I'm saying is that those default view patches are invalid if they hardcode a functionality |
| 05:33.37 | egaudet|Away | patches should follow guidelines to be user configurable |
| 05:33.45 | egaudet|Away | not require a patch to change |
| 05:33.52 | rwhitby | egaudet|Away: I'd agree with that - they should be merged into one with preferences. |
| 05:34.06 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: if we start patching palm files with ipkg scripts we are gonna be in a world of hurt |
| 05:34.15 | *** join/#webos-internals nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org) |
| 05:34.18 | PuffTheMagic | that should be in the "advanced hacking" section |
| 05:34.20 | egaudet|Away | Right, and the onscreen kb is invalid as is until there is a user configurable way to shut off and use Palm default behavior |
| 05:35.18 | egaudet|Away | The only way around patch conflicts is a central repository with strict guidelines, otherwise it's just not going to work |
| 05:35.27 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: what's the alternative, which allows for a patch to a palm app to be applied by Rick_zzzzz's Aunt Minnie who only knows enough to run WebOS Quick Install and fileCoaster ? |
| 05:36.02 | rwhitby | egaudet|Away: that's what the modifications git repo is meant to be. that patches are rooted at / is one of the strict guidelines. |
| 05:36.07 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: should should not be doing such things |
| 05:36.18 | PuffTheMagic | she^^ |
| 05:36.30 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: that's too elitist for me to agree with. |
| 05:36.38 | Decimation | lol, this guy PMed me asking about rooting |
| 05:36.43 | Decimation | and i asked if he had msn or aim |
| 05:36.45 | Decimation | he replies |
| 05:36.46 | Decimation | Yeah I do I have yahoo messenger and msn on my laptop do I need to remove those cuz I don't use them? |
| 05:36.55 | egaudet|Away | PuffTheMagic, with knowledge comes power, with power comes responsibility |
| 05:36.59 | heisenman | Yes, yes you should. |
| 05:37.16 | heisenman | If you don't use system32 on a regular basis, you should remove that as well. |
| 05:37.18 | egaudet|Away | we have a responsibility to those annoying noobs |
| 05:37.19 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 05:37.28 | heisenman | (Don't say that. It's mean.) |
| 05:37.35 | heisenman | (Refer him to the tutorial) |
| 05:37.55 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: can you show me where the palm licenses are on the pre userland that actually prohibit us from posting whole files |
| 05:37.58 | Decimation | heisenman: lol, i did. |
| 05:38.37 | PuffTheMagic | cause i dont remember anything about source code when i first created my palm profile |
| 05:38.49 | PuffTheMagic | and i dont know how anything can prove that i used the sdk |
| 05:39.08 | PuffTheMagic | i could have used dd to dump the disk contents and then inspected the content in a hex editor |
| 05:39.27 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: all source code is copywrited by default in many countries |
| 05:39.37 | PuffTheMagic | right copyrighted |
| 05:39.40 | PuffTheMagic | but where is the license |
| 05:39.56 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: unless specifically granted a licence to distribute, you may not |
| 05:40.17 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Without a license, no sharing is permitted. THe law of copyright is "default deny" |
| 05:40.22 | JackieRipper | so the lack of license you're asking for means that you may not distribute |
| 05:40.28 | eternaleye | Like a good firewall |
| 05:40.31 | PuffTheMagic | why cant i run a library for code |
| 05:40.36 | PuffTheMagic | books are copyrighted |
| 05:40.44 | PuffTheMagic | and yet people can go to a library and look at books |
| 05:40.53 | PuffTheMagic | and i belive code falls into the same category as books |
| 05:40.59 | eternaleye | But you can't _copy_ them |
| 05:41.00 | JackieRipper | but you may not make a new copy |
| 05:41.04 | JackieRipper | or post to the net |
| 05:41.14 | eternaleye | writing out the contents of a book and selling it is illegal, too |
| 05:41.18 | JackieRipper | only small excerpts for review purposes |
| 05:41.24 | PuffTheMagic | i can quote a whole book if i reference it |
| 05:41.32 | JackieRipper | no you can't |
| 05:41.37 | JackieRipper | not legally |
| 05:41.52 | PuffTheMagic | i cant sell it |
| 05:41.56 | PuffTheMagic | but i can pass it around |
| 05:42.01 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Look up 'Fair Use Guidelines' - Basically, small bits for review or parody is OK. Otherwise, no. |
| 05:42.02 | JackieRipper | no you can't |
| 05:42.11 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: think napster |
| 05:42.33 | JackieRipper | you can't distribute without permission |
| 05:42.43 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: It's any redistribution that is disallowed. Giving it to your brother is illegal too. |
| 05:43.21 | PuffTheMagic | so everyone post a portion of the palm code online for fair use |
| 05:43.36 | JackieRipper | fair use has to be justified |
| 05:43.37 | PuffTheMagic | we can napster palm |
| 05:43.42 | JackieRipper | what's the fair use? |
| 05:44.08 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Napster was ruled illegal |
| 05:45.13 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Read Groklaw for a really good series of explanations of copyright |
| 05:45.43 | PuffTheMagic | well where are the copyrights on the source files? |
| 05:46.08 | JackieRipper | as I said, in many countries, all code is auto-copywrited |
| 05:46.16 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: The law says that anything created by a person or company is copyrighted to them BY DEFAULT |
| 05:46.31 | JackieRipper | the US is one of those countries |
| 05:47.32 | PuffTheMagic | i beleive it has to be filed in the copyright office for them to have any legal grounds to it |
| 05:47.34 | heisenman | Puff: One of the reasons the US is having so much press about the RIAA/MPAA taking various actions legal or no against filesharers... |
| 05:48.01 | heisenman | Is because the idea that "making available" content that you don't own (have the copyright to) is implicitly illegal in US law. |
| 05:48.23 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: You may believe that. Every single judge doesn't. |
| 05:48.25 | PuffTheMagic | how do i know palm owns a file if the file has no copyright in it |
| 05:48.26 | heisenman | Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with that law, the current precedents being set are reinforcing that legal implication. |
| 05:48.31 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: that may be true for patents everywhere but the US, but not copywrite |
| 05:48.45 | heisenman | Puff: If you didn't write the file, someone did. That person owns the copyright. |
| 05:49.12 | *** join/#webos-internals toddcrowe (n=toddcrow@or-71-0-51-132.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 05:49.24 | PuffTheMagic | so then someone needs my permission to post the log of the channel? |
| 05:49.33 | PuffTheMagic | if it contains my text? |
| 05:49.40 | heisenman | Whoever owns freenode owns the copyright to this text |
| 05:49.51 | PuffTheMagic | they didnt write my words though |
| 05:49.56 | heisenman | You're writing on it, but the program that's generating your content is owned by them. |
| 05:50.09 | heisenman | This is actually a really tricky part of copyright law, and IANAL |
| 05:50.14 | heisenman | So I won't get too far into this. |
| 05:50.30 | heisenman | Because I know about 2% of what I need to to be spot on legally |
| 05:50.49 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: heisenman: No, you agreed to the TOS by connecting to the server, and _that_ gives Freenode the copyrighy |
| 05:50.49 | heisenman | But if you talk to a copyright lawyer (tort?) they'll end up giving you a similar response. |
| 05:50.58 | eternaleye | *copyright |
| 05:51.03 | heisenman | Danke, eternaleye. |
| 05:51.12 | PuffTheMagic | so when does a digital file become a copy and not the origional? |
| 05:51.18 | heisenman | I didn't know there was a TOS because..uh...I read everything I should, I swear. |
| 05:51.34 | heisenman | A digital file contains content. |
| 05:51.38 | heisenman | The file is an object |
| 05:51.42 | heisenman | The content is copywritten. |
| 05:51.47 | PuffTheMagic | thats not what i asked |
| 05:51.59 | eternaleye | heisenman: There's _always_ a TOS ;D (if only for CYA) |
| 05:52.01 | heisenman | Similarly in software, microsoft issues a cd with win7 on it. |
| 05:52.05 | PuffTheMagic | if i am given a file and i move it somewhere |
| 05:52.10 | PuffTheMagic | is that a copy or the origional? |
| 05:52.14 | heisenman | You own the cd you bought from the store. |
| 05:52.21 | heisenman | Microsoft owns the content on the CD. |
| 05:52.29 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: It counts as copying when it changes hands |
| 05:52.47 | heisenman | They have a EULA granting you the license to install their content on one or more computers (depending on the EULA). |
| 05:52.52 | *** part/#webos-internals toddcrowe (n=toddcrow@or-71-0-51-132.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 05:52.59 | heisenman | But they still retain ownership of the content on the CD/DVD. |
| 05:53.09 | PuffTheMagic | i am not talking about ownership right now |
| 05:53.14 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: If this doesn't work, the GPL doesn't work either. Which would you like: That the GPL (and all code based on it) is invalid, or that you can share the Palm files? |
| 05:53.20 | heisenman | Ah, I see. |
| 05:53.22 | heisenman | Fair use. |
| 05:53.33 | heisenman | Whether or not you are legally allowed to make a copy. |
| 05:53.39 | *** join/#webos-internals tlp_ (n=tlp@75-174-60-106.bois.qwest.net) |
| 05:53.41 | eternaleye | s/or/and/ |
| 05:54.07 | eternaleye | infobot: FAIL |
| 05:54.08 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, fail is what happens to you when you follow gamespot's game advice. standing in the fire. |
| 05:54.30 | JackieRipper | Stallman's ears are mow burning |
| 05:54.30 | eternaleye | s/ or / and / |
| 05:55.10 | JackieRipper | he has no idea why, but he has the urge to scream, "It's copyLEFT, not copyright!" |
| 05:55.13 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: heisenman: it becomes illegal redistribution when you give it to someone else and keep a copy for yourself |
| 05:55.23 | eternaleye | JackieRipper: :D |
| 05:55.23 | psykoz | grins |
| 05:55.27 | psykoz | Stallman is a nut job ;) |
| 05:55.30 | JackieRipper | aye |
| 05:55.42 | PuffTheMagic | right but no one has explained when a "digital" file becomes a copy |
| 05:55.48 | eternaleye | But he has a katana, so be careful saying that to his face |
| 05:56.03 | psykoz | I always love: http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/su-invocation.html scroll down to section 23.5.1 |
| 05:56.16 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: I just said it. When someone else gains access to it, and you keep access to it. |
| 05:56.18 | PuffTheMagic | if I go to the library and use their copy machine to copy a page out of a book, is the library at fault or is the person who made the copy? |
| 05:56.40 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: when you give a copy to someone else definitely, and when you copy it to another medium, possibly |
| 05:56.42 | psykoz | brief summary from Stallman "Because I suck and couldn't do anything to fix this one problem once upon a time, I just think securing your system is absolutely retarded, infact I'll never support you securing your system, because I am on the side of insecurity" :) |
| 05:56.47 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Research usage for quoting is permitted under fair use, but there's a maximum limit on quantity |
| 05:57.04 | eternaleye | psykoz: I've read the 'wheel' rant |
| 05:57.19 | JackieRipper | psykoz: actually, he did solve that one problem |
| 05:57.20 | *** join/#webos-internals CM (i=cm@shaka.acc.umu.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:57.26 | JackieRipper | but he wouldn't be able to do it again |
| 05:57.32 | JackieRipper | he patched the kernel |
| 05:57.32 | psykoz | nod |
| 05:57.34 | eternaleye | psykoz: I haven't been able to take him seriously since I saw it |
| 05:57.41 | psykoz | eternaleye, exactly ;) |
| 05:57.54 | eternaleye | FOR THE PROLETARIAT |
| 05:57.59 | heisenman | eternaleye: I agree with you in practice to what we're talking about... |
| 05:58.05 | heisenman | But it's really based on the license. |
| 05:58.15 | heisenman | BSD licensing says: Do whatever you want. |
| 05:58.24 | heisenman | So under their license, you CAN give out a copy and keep it for yourself. |
| 05:58.43 | eternaleye | heisenman: Yes, but we're discussing a situation (the palm files) where there is no license |
| 05:58.46 | heisenman | Puff: To make sure you understand this, let's start with ownership and move down to use. |
| 05:58.53 | PuffTheMagic | eternaleye: im just trying to figure out how a git repo is different than a library, if my copy is on the repo server and you can view the file, i cant help if you c-n-p |
| 05:59.10 | heisenman | Puff: Do you know who owns the git repository? |
| 05:59.20 | JackieRipper | I run the Unix side of the server room for the research branch of the largest company in the world... Satlman would *hate* me :) |
| 05:59.29 | heisenman | Once you do, do you know their TOS/licensing for that library and anything in it? |
| 05:59.29 | JackieRipper | Stallman, that is |
| 05:59.34 | eternaleye | heisenman: And what I mean is that if he can copy the palm files, companies can rip off GPL code |
| 05:59.44 | psykoz | Stallman hates anyone |
| 06:00.03 | psykoz | He just wants his money from his sponsors ;) |
| 06:00.05 | heisenman | eternal: they often do. The legal system says: you may not violate the license terms of the owner of this content. |
| 06:00.07 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: when you put your copy in the repo, are you going to remove it from your pre? |
| 06:00.14 | JackieRipper | if not, you've made a copy |
| 06:00.21 | tmzt | heisenman: can we restrict TOS to discussing services please? |
| 06:00.21 | heisenman | So they eventually fail in their wish to steal GPL'ed files. |
| 06:00.23 | eternaleye | No, he loves his beard. Sadly, it isn't mutual. |
| 06:00.35 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: lets say that I did for the purpose of this convo |
| 06:00.53 | Decimation | lol, im just goin through files, editing away, seeing what happens |
| 06:00.55 | Decimation | its great :) |
| 06:01.03 | JackieRipper | Palm would probably argue that by placing it in the repo, you're distributing it |
| 06:01.16 | heisenman | tmzt: Sorry. I don't wish to make a big deal of this, but if Puff truly doesn't understand... we could all be here all night. |
| 06:01.24 | heisenman | I'll be quiet now. |
| 06:01.54 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: ehh its a library and people are just viewing the orig copy ;) |
| 06:02.10 | tmzt | I didn't mean the channel policies, I mean the term TOS |
| 06:02.19 | JackieRipper | 1) not one at a time |
| 06:02.30 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: Yes, but you've given access to people who normally wouldn't have access. That's illegal here. |
| 06:02.39 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: multiple people can look at a book at once |
| 06:02.45 | PuffTheMagic | in a library |
| 06:02.49 | PuffTheMagic | and that is not illegal |
| 06:02.49 | JackieRipper | sure, but it's one book |
| 06:03.22 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: i have to press/bend all rules |
| 06:03.25 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: With computers, they can each take their own copy AND KEEP IT, even if you take down the repository |
| 06:03.25 | JackieRipper | when I copy the file to my harddrive to view it, it's still in the repo |
| 06:03.30 | PuffTheMagic | im not really trying t argue with you all |
| 06:03.35 | PuffTheMagic | palm is not following gpl |
| 06:04.19 | PuffTheMagic | so why should we care about their EULA |
| 06:04.20 | JackieRipper | palm is following gpl for the gpl code they used |
| 06:04.20 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: The people who right laws have more practice at this than you. They are going to win. |
| 06:04.20 | Decimation | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:04.20 | eternaleye | *write |
| 06:04.20 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: where is that? |
| 06:04.21 | Decimation | at the top of EVERY file im looking through |
| 06:04.24 | heisenman | Puff: in practice, Palm probably isn't going to squish you like a bug for violating their TOS. |
| 06:04.33 | heisenman | Unless you get annoying enough. |
| 06:04.33 | PuffTheMagic | the first one i looked in didnt have that |
| 06:04.41 | tmzt | heisenman: and what service are you refering to this time? |
| 06:04.51 | Decimation | every file i look at does. |
| 06:04.51 | heisenman | In theory, they COULD, because they have copyright and TOS to their code. |
| 06:05.24 | eternaleye | heisenman: TOS is only relevent with services of some sort, not files |
| 06:05.27 | JackieRipper | heisenman: except their kernel, device drivers and most of their userland |
| 06:05.35 | eternaleye | Like taxicab service, or phone service |
| 06:05.36 | psykoz | can I get a 10 words or less explanation of what this conversation is about? |
| 06:05.43 | psykoz | and/or how it started.. |
| 06:05.44 | heisenman | eternaleye: Thank you, I should have said licensing. |
| 06:05.46 | psykoz | ;) |
| 06:05.55 | eternaleye | psykoz: PuffTheMagic wants to redistribute the Palm source files |
| 06:06.08 | JackieRipper | psykoz: "why don't we post whole files rather than diffs?" |
| 06:06.16 | JackieRipper | 9 words |
| 06:06.56 | Decimation | answer: they are copyrighted, don't know why this is still going on. |
| 06:07.24 | JackieRipper | I haven't checked... palm published the source to all of their device drivers correct? |
| 06:07.34 | psykoz | Posting whole files wastes bandwidth and storage, why reinvent the wheel, the whole files are on Palm's website in various places/tools/etc. And on your phone! It would be redundant to repost them on some other site |
| 06:07.38 | psykoz | grins |
| 06:07.41 | tmzt | device drivers are in the kernel |
| 06:07.48 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: yeah the kernel code they posted seem complete |
| 06:08.00 | JackieRipper | cool |
| 06:08.07 | PuffTheMagic | psykoz: cause diffs are studid that why |
| 06:08.13 | eternaleye | psykoz: The sources for WebOS's UI, service daemons, and apps aren't open-source |
| 06:08.30 | PuffTheMagic | psykoz: why not put the whole pre userland in the repo |
| 06:08.33 | PuffTheMagic | and use git like its meant |
| 06:08.38 | PuffTheMagic | thats where i am going |
| 06:08.45 | psykoz | They don't have to be open-source unless they used code from someone else who's license explicitly said that Palm has to opensource those applications etc.. |
| 06:08.56 | tmzt | so people getting openpandora's and iPhone 3gs's can use it :) |
| 06:09.09 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: 1.) Git was meant for text, not binaries 2.) The own copyright on a lot of the stuff, so it's illegal in ways you can't begin to outsmart |
| 06:09.23 | PuffTheMagic | eternaleye: the palm userland is mostly text |
| 06:09.26 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: can you give a quick summary of "like it's meant"? |
| 06:09.32 | PuffTheMagic | eternaleye: the mojo apps part is what im talking about |
| 06:09.44 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: But the unix executables, Java jars etc aren't |
| 06:09.50 | PuffTheMagic | eternaleye: i dont mean them |
| 06:09.54 | PuffTheMagic | the plain text shit |
| 06:10.03 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: The Java jars are what make the UI go |
| 06:10.15 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: git is version control, it keep track of changes but still maintains whole files |
| 06:10.23 | JackieRipper | eternaleye: most of the Unix executables, aside from the jave, are gpl, though |
| 06:10.24 | psykoz | well I know we're using quilt and if we're trying to solve the problemw ith diff's does Quilt have the ability to store a backup of what lines were altered? That at least would seem to solve the patching+reverting issues on hand |
| 06:10.26 | PuffTheMagic | putting diffs in the git repo is like an oxymoron |
| 06:10.55 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: not if that's what we're distributing |
| 06:10.58 | psykoz | And if quilt can't do that are there any diff capable apps that can? |
| 06:11.07 | tmzt | I think I get his point now |
| 06:11.11 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: but a diff of a diff is useless |
| 06:11.18 | PuffTheMagic | so we could just use ftp |
| 06:11.23 | tmzt | git is not really designed for storing diffs as blobs |
| 06:11.24 | PuffTheMagic | git is overkill here |
| 06:11.31 | PuffTheMagic | tmzt: ++ |
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| 06:11.36 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: ftp lacks version control |
| 06:11.46 | psykoz | revision control++ |
| 06:11.48 | tmzt | svn/webdav doesn't |
| 06:11.51 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: but we arent really using the version control part of git |
| 06:11.56 | PuffTheMagic | when storing difss |
| 06:11.58 | PuffTheMagic | diffs |
| 06:12.06 | tmzt | maybe the new format of semantic diff would be more interesting |
| 06:12.07 | psykoz | tmzt, git is just another variety of svn <shrug> |
| 06:12.08 | eternaleye | tmzt: but then it's still storing diffs of diffs under the hood |
| 06:12.09 | PuffTheMagic | we are using it for all the from scratch mojo apps and plugins and services |
| 06:12.33 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: BECAUSE PALM DOESN"T OWN THE FROM SCRATCH APPS |
| 06:12.38 | tmzt | think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that neccessarily required a unique original to develop |
| 06:12.40 | PuffTheMagic | eternaleye: I KNOW |
| 06:12.49 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: further, I would say, considering it was written to version control the Linux kernel source, and everything else is gravy, difs if diffs is exactly* its intended use |
| 06:13.02 | JackieRipper | diffs of diffs |
| 06:13.09 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: This entire conversation is pointless If you want to know why it's illegal, hire a copyright attorney. |
| 06:13.15 | PuffTheMagic | a diff of a diff is completly useless |
| 06:13.23 | PuffTheMagic | looking at a diff is hard enough for most people |
| 06:13.26 | JackieRipper | it so is not |
| 06:13.31 | PuffTheMagic | how are you gonna amke sense of a diff of a diff |
| 06:13.37 | tmzt | think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that |
| 06:13.42 | eternaleye | PuffTheMagic: No, it's useful if the diff is the end product. And they don't need to look at it, just feed it to patch. |
| 06:13.50 | tmzt | did not neccessarily required a unique original to develop |
| 06:13.51 | JackieRipper | it's not a diff of a diff... |
| 06:13.58 | tmzt | yeah it is |
| 06:14.06 | tmzt | if you change a diff, git creates a diff |
| 06:14.10 | JackieRipper | but even so... "what changed?" is easily answered by a diff |
| 06:14.33 | PuffTheMagic | a diff of a diff looks like ascii soup |
| 06:14.38 | JackieRipper | next, there's the ability to roll back changes, y'know, revisioning, which is completely missing from ftp |
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| 06:14.54 | tmzt | think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that did not neccessarily require a specific original to develop |
| 06:15.02 | psykoz | puffthemagic, show exmaple of diff of a diff that you have a hard time reading ? |
| 06:15.34 | JackieRipper | "wow, someone put out a new patch for mod x.... I wonder what they changed?" - a diff would tell me |
| 06:15.34 | tmzt | +-function test(a, b, c) |
| 06:15.41 | PuffTheMagic | psykoz: i have spend the last 8 years doing kernel dev work, i can read diffs in my sleep |
| 06:15.52 | tmzt | PuffTheMagic: what do you work with? |
| 06:16.12 | PuffTheMagic | but i bet most people cant follow a diff let alone a diff of a diff |
| 06:16.31 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: git was designed to manage patches |
| 06:16.34 | psykoz | well most people have a hard time wiping their own asses |
| 06:16.35 | psykoz | so... |
| 06:16.37 | PuffTheMagic | JackieRipper: no it wasnt |
| 06:16.42 | psykoz | when has that been a valid argument for anything? |
| 06:16.43 | JackieRipper | the hell it wasn't |
| 06:16.50 | PuffTheMagic | it was designed to manage versions of files |
| 06:16.58 | PuffTheMagic | it creates diffs to accomplish that |
| 06:17.04 | tmzt | by managing patches |
| 06:17.05 | tmzt | yes |
| 06:17.14 | tmzt | but designed/intended are not the same thing |
| 06:17.35 | zomg | diffs are nasty |
| 06:17.37 | zomg | glad there are tools |
| 06:17.38 | zomg | :P |
| 06:17.39 | tmzt | it was designed to manage patches, but intended to do versioning of files |
| 06:18.26 | PuffTheMagic | storing diffs in git is not efficient at all, may as well keep whole versions of each patch in a ftp |
| 06:18.34 | PuffTheMagic | it wastes the same amount of space |
| 06:18.57 | zomg | Why would you store diffs in git when you can just store the source itself? |
| 06:21.20 | PuffTheMagic | zomg: cause we cant "store" palms files |
| 06:21.28 | PuffTheMagic | that is like the whole origin of this convo |
| 06:21.36 | zomg | ahh |
| 06:21.49 | zomg | ya makes sense in a way I guess |
| 06:22.00 | tmzt | SHA1's are derived from the content of blobs? |
| 06:22.05 | tmzt | (in git) |
| 06:27.06 | PuffTheMagic | tmzt: so to answer your question about what i do on the kernel, random shit, work on drivers, new cpu/IO schedulers. fix bugs... |
| 06:27.44 | tmzt | oh, cool |
| 06:27.55 | PuffTheMagic | i also maintain a patchset with a few other people.... since most people can seem to apply patches them selves |
| 06:28.04 | tmzt | just getting into to kernel development on the arm side |
| 06:28.05 | PuffTheMagic | and these are real linux users |
| 06:28.15 | PuffTheMagic | that cant even be botherd with patches |
| 06:28.35 | PuffTheMagic | and we are expection grandma pre user to use patches |
| 06:28.36 | PuffTheMagic | hahaha |
| 06:28.47 | PuffTheMagic | s/expection/expecting |
| 06:29.05 | tmzt | well, I've been working for msm for the last year and pxa a while before that, but still don't feel I've gotten very deep into it |
| 06:29.15 | JackieRipper | PuffTheMagic: you keep developing; I'll handle the n00bs |
| 06:29.20 | JackieRipper | :) |
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| 06:40.11 | rwhitby | git is orthogonal to this dicussion about patches. |
| 06:40.28 | rwhitby | we used git for the modifications repo simply cause we were already using git for everything else. |
| 06:40.44 | rwhitby | you could just as easily use svn or bzr or darcs or webdav or ftp. doesn't matter. |
| 06:40.59 | rwhitby | we could even email the patches around like the old days. |
| 06:41.18 | rwhitby | 1) we have to use patches, cause the source files are palm proprietary code |
| 06:41.50 | rwhitby | 2) we root the patches at /, so that you don't need to *also* specify the instructions on how to apply them (one set of instructions works for *all* patches) |
| 06:42.24 | acydlord | places a vote for BBS |
| 06:42.25 | rwhitby | 3) the patches are not the end product, they are an interchange format. the end product which allows Aunt Minnie to patch palm apps is not created yet, but when it is, it will use these patches under the hood. |
| 06:44.12 | rwhitby | 4) the way to handle new users in the channel is to point them to the wiki page which explains what to do. if they ask basic questions that google can answer, then just politely tell them to search google. if they find holes in the instructions, then thank them and require *them* to update the instructions with the fixes you give them (don't give the second fix until they have documented the first) |
| 06:44.13 | oil | poor aunt minnie, no pre hacking yet... |
| 06:44.28 | Decimation | mimmzie.. it was mimmzie. |
| 06:45.10 | Decimation | Rick_home>that Aunt Mimzzy could use. |
| 06:45.35 | rwhitby | 5) concentrate on the people to take the time to learn how to do things. they are the people who will take the load of the lead developers. you never know up front which of the new users will end up being those people, but you get a good idea from whether they go and update the wiki page as you asked or not. |
| 06:46.11 | acydlord | i just got done bash scripting all the mods and patches I have applied to my pre |
| 06:46.22 | acydlord | hopefully they dont change the code too much in the next release |
| 06:46.50 | rwhitby | s/people to take/people who take/ |
| 06:48.34 | Decimation | poop pee poop |
| 06:48.41 | Decimation | s/pee/poop |
| 06:48.48 | Decimation | s/pee/poop/ |
| 06:49.06 | Decimation | poop poop pee poop |
| 06:49.15 | Decimation | s/poop pee/poop poop/ |
| 06:49.20 | Decimation | nice, i figured it out |
| 06:49.39 | rwhitby | 6) ignore the users who do childish things in channel, or use profane language. they're usually the trouble-makers ;-) |
| 06:49.42 | SteveChiller | s/poop |
| 06:50.51 | Decimation | rwhitby: lol, i was just trying to figure out how to spelling correcter works, give me a break :P |
| 06:51.35 | Decimation | "but you get a good idea from whether they go and update the wiki page as you asked or not." psht. i made a wiki page for you. |
| 06:51.53 | Decimation | then ya just turn around and call me a trouble-maker... ugh, the nerve rwhitby, the nerve :) |
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| 06:53.26 | rwhitby | Decimation: so, what's the next patch you're going to create for us? |
| 06:53.42 | Decimation | im trying to get another icon on the quicklauncher |
| 06:54.01 | Decimation | gosh, i have to get used to typing your name in front of my message |
| 06:54.10 | Decimation | rwhitby: im trying to get another icon on the quicklauncher |
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| 06:56.13 | Decimation | you know, i'm really liking how my launcher looks with so many more icons on each page.. it seems compact...a lot of information in one spot, but its neat, so it looks good. |
| 07:01.01 | rwhitby | Decimation: why did your patch have to include the add/delete pages patch? would they not apply independently with context? |
| 07:01.29 | Decimation | rwhitby: i already had it in my file and was too lazy to take it out if ya wanna know the truth :P |
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| 07:02.20 | rwhitby | Decimation: it would be great if you could regenerate the patch without it. then people can choose whether to apply one or the other or both. it doesn't seem like there are overlaps between them. |
| 07:03.13 | Decimation | rwhitby: i need to sleep. ill do it tomorrow :) |
| 07:03.16 | Decimation | goodnightt. |
| 07:03.24 | rwhitby | Decimation: thx. goodnight. |
| 07:04.03 | rwhitby | 7) when people say "I'll do it tomorrow" double check whether they did. those that did are the people you should concentrate on. |
| 07:04.29 | tmzt | 7el? |
| 07:04.59 | Decimation | 8) if you want to be cool, make up a bunch of rules throughout the conversation :P |
| 07:05.15 | Decimation | ugh, god damn smileys |
| 07:08.38 | tmzt | use ascii |
| 07:08.44 | tmzt | uh, 9) |
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| 07:38.48 | hmagoo | grr, how do I unapply a patch in quilt that I want unapplied but it thinks it hasn't applied? |
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| 08:08.20 | rwhitby | hmagoo: why does it think it hasn't applied it? note that you can use patch to apply and unapply (-R) the patch files - make sure you're in the / dir when you do it. |
| 08:09.54 | hmagoo | rwhitby, because of using quilt before/after upgrades and trying to manage them, got a little messy |
| 08:10.23 | hmagoo | but.. reverted back to original palm file that was patched, going to see if that helped so I don't have to unapply the patch anyways |
| 08:10.33 | rwhitby | isn't it just quilt pop -a before upgrade, and then quilt push for each patch after the upgrade? |
| 08:11.11 | hmagoo | long story |
| 08:13.05 | rwhitby | ok, in that case patch and patch -R are the ways to do it |
| 08:13.11 | hmagoo | thank you |
| 08:13.17 | rwhitby | get everything back to original state, |
| 08:13.48 | rwhitby | then start using quilt again from scratch - remove the /.pc directory and /opt/src/patches/* files if necessary. |
| 08:17.55 | hmagoo | gotcha |
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| 08:22.56 | dtom2444 | is this channel for palm pre devs? |
| 08:24.10 | hmagoo | I think #webos is |
| 08:32.35 | hmagoo | exit |
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| 10:08.26 | dreadchicken | preware.org feed not being updated? specifically, i note that terminal has had lots of changes but is still at 0.1.6. |
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| 10:40.54 | bsdbandit | hey guys |
| 10:41.01 | bsdbandit | quick question |
| 10:41.56 | bsdbandit | im trying to save my custom wallpaper over to the /media/internal/wallpapers directory but when i do and restart LunaSysMgr i still cannot see my wallpaper |
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| 11:06.59 | blau-mikeDg | im starting to miss my android phone |
| 11:07.11 | blau-mikeDg | its just so much more snappy than the pre |
| 11:07.26 | blau-mikeDg | :( |
| 11:08.15 | blau-mikeDg | and that combined with battery life that last more than8 hours |
| 11:17.35 | tmzt | oh? |
| 11:18.17 | tmzt | I wonder if you could shut omap3 off |
| 11:18.28 | tmzt | (except wake) |
| 11:19.47 | tmzt | if the rom bootloader was fast enough it could either reboot or restore a running system without the normal low power/power save mode |
| 11:20.17 | tmzt | except that the ram is likely to require the same power no matter if the cpu was off (if it supports while (1) { |
| 11:20.21 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:20.22 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:20.23 | tmzt | sorry |
| 11:20.26 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:20.59 | tmzt | of course this would require support in the msm chip, which it may not have |
| 11:22.33 | tmzt | blau-mikeDg: hold on, your ip says you're on your android phone |
| 11:26.56 | blau-mikeDg | i still have both lines |
| 11:27.00 | blau-mikeDg | i use my pre as my primary tho |
| 11:27.39 | blau-mikeDg | i suspect theres some stupid constant synching going on |
| 11:27.49 | blau-mikeDg | i dont need my contacts synced every 10 minutes |
| 11:28.24 | blau-mikeDg | if i had an extra pre id do some tinkering with removing shit until i get decent battery life |
| 11:28.37 | blau-mikeDg | airplane mode works fine, and dataless mode is acceptable |
| 11:28.54 | tmzt | which os (interface) are you liking better? |
| 11:28.57 | enio | they should give u an option |
| 11:29.05 | enio | automatic syncs or manual syncs |
| 11:29.06 | enio | etc |
| 11:29.17 | tmzt | run tcpdump |
| 11:29.40 | blau-mikeDg | tmzt: i like webos look and feel and navigation better |
| 11:29.52 | blau-mikeDg | aside from the lack of a way to change focus without the touchscreen |
| 11:30.07 | blau-mikeDg | and the web browser stomps on androids |
| 11:30.13 | tmzt | maybe navi could do that |
| 11:30.38 | blau-mikeDg | for the most part enter works to switch between text boxes |
| 11:30.41 | tmzt | it would be so great if luna was open, even if webos (mojo) was still closed |
| 11:30.42 | blau-mikeDg | which is a little helpful |
| 11:31.03 | blau-mikeDg | but android is getting such great and snappy apps |
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| 11:31.09 | tmzt | well, text boxes are in the open webkit stuff I think |
| 11:31.10 | blau-mikeDg | im in love with the amazon app |
| 11:31.30 | blau-mikeDg | and google voice integration |
| 11:31.31 | tmzt | yeah, but android needs apps, I would say, if designed properly, the Pre doesn't |
| 11:31.40 | blau-mikeDg | yeah |
| 11:32.15 | blau-mikeDg | i dislike the menu area on the pre |
| 11:32.24 | blau-mikeDg | its too much of a pain to hit those tiny hitboxes to open the menu |
| 11:32.59 | tmzt | why did I have to remove my getkey() function? |
| 11:34.56 | blau-mikeDg | cause of the beef |
| 11:35.37 | blau-mikeDg | i made that up, no idea whta i meant |
| 11:35.46 | tmzt | hey, you can always use a mod by list length for moving forward or backwards in the list? |
| 11:36.07 | blau-mikeDg | not sure what you mean |
| 11:36.26 | tmzt | like if I have a list of three elements and I want the arrow keys to move through them |
| 11:36.45 | blau-mikeDg | back to working on his android project |
| 11:36.54 | blau-mikeDg | need to get some of these bugs out then optomize for speed |
| 11:37.02 | blau-mikeDg | then figure out a use for it |
| 11:39.06 | jcrawford | blau-mikeDg: i agree with you |
| 11:39.17 | jcrawford | i try to hit the menu and constantly get the wrong menu |
| 11:39.43 | blau-mikeDg | i like my fix a little for it, wish theyd incorporate it so i dont have to redo it every new version |
| 11:39.48 | blau-mikeDg | or everytime i restore myd evice |
| 11:40.10 | jcrawford | what was your fix? |
| 11:41.03 | blau-mikeDg | you can slide your finger down from the top of the screen |
| 11:41.33 | blau-mikeDg | through the menus to activate rather than tap to hit |
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| 11:43.59 | tmzt | ah, reading from the framebuffer, not the event device ;) |
| 11:44.09 | tmzt | copy/paste from a function, oops |
| 11:44.23 | blau-mikeDg | my tweak is on the wiki somewhere |
| 11:45.06 | blau-mikeDg | wants to toy with loading js from the web for pre apps |
| 11:45.21 | blau-mikeDg | anyone tried it yet? |
| 11:45.27 | tmzt | shouldn't that work if the securit is right? |
| 11:45.31 | tmzt | like |
| 11:45.39 | blau-mikeDg | no idea |
| 11:45.43 | tmzt | createNode("script"); |
| 11:45.54 | tmzt | .setAttribute("src", "url"); |
| 11:46.01 | blau-mikeDg | i was surprised that i can pull js and views for scenes from random locations on the device |
| 11:46.11 | tmzt | oh |
| 11:46.13 | tmzt | anywhere? |
| 11:46.17 | jcrawford | blau-mikeDg: good idea for the fix |
| 11:46.19 | tmzt | webkit is running as root |
| 11:46.34 | blau-mikeDg | like my quickcut app, uses the source code views and images from the actual note app for the create new note app |
| 11:46.37 | blau-mikeDg | shortcut |
| 11:46.41 | tmzt | and that breaks destinals key thing |
| 11:46.55 | blau-mikeDg | key thing? |
| 11:47.11 | tmzt | the terminal security |
| 11:48.51 | tmzt | Pre is hvga? |
| 11:52.43 | blau-mikeDg | fuck |
| 11:52.52 | blau-mikeDg | i need a reasonable way to cache shit in java |
| 11:52.58 | blau-mikeDg | without raping memory |
| 11:53.30 | blau-mikeDg | goes to toy with weak references |
| 11:58.46 | enio | fckin hangover |
| 11:58.46 | enio | :S |
| 12:01.52 | tmzt | reflection |
| 12:05.19 | blau-mikeDg | fucking fedex |
| 12:05.24 | jcrawford | ? |
| 12:05.42 | blau-mikeDg | i called yesterday to have them hold my Ion phone since noone will be home to recieve it |
| 12:06.03 | blau-mikeDg | sigh |
| 12:06.29 | jcrawford | hmm the framework files that are in /opt/PalmSDK/ are those the ones the emulator uses or are those burried somewhere else? I want to add some alterations to the depot.js and try to find out why my depot calls are not working |
| 12:06.44 | jcrawford | but that would require altering the depot.js file and having the sdk see the modified version |
| 12:06.58 | jcrawford | lon phone? |
| 12:07.06 | blau-mikeDg | android phone |
| 12:07.09 | jcrawford | ah |
| 12:07.10 | blau-mikeDg | broke :( |
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| 12:10.18 | jcrawford | so any ideas how to modify the depot.js in the emulator? |
| 12:10.39 | blau-mikeDg | thats probbaly it |
| 12:10.52 | blau-mikeDg | shove a fewconsole.logs in there |
| 12:11.05 | jcrawford | while ssh'd into sdk |
| 12:11.06 | jcrawford | ./usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.14/javascripts/depot.js |
| 12:22.44 | blau-mikeDg | vi depot.js |
| 12:31.54 | jcrawford | ya |
| 12:34.14 | jcrawford | odd modifying that file and then rebooting the emulator did nothing |
| 12:34.45 | jcrawford | i added Mojo.Log.error statements that started with JC but they are not in the log :( |
| 12:34.46 | blau-mikeDg | delete it |
| 12:34.57 | jcrawford | why delete it? |
| 12:35.02 | rwhitby | jcrawford: the files the emulator uses are in the virtualbox disk image, not /opt/PalmSDK |
| 12:35.03 | blau-mikeDg | mojo.log.error requires a certain loglevel i thought |
| 12:35.12 | blau-mikeDg | the depot.js might not have it |
| 12:35.21 | blau-mikeDg | or maybe what rwhitby said |
| 12:35.24 | jcrawford | rwhitby: i am altering /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/ etc..' |
| 12:35.30 | jcrawford | not the /opt/PalmSDK/ |
| 12:35.44 | jcrawford | blau-mikeDg: it has it because Palm uses it in that class file |
| 12:36.16 | rwhitby | dreadchicken: preware.org feed is updated whenever the authors decide to make a new release. that hasn't happened for Terminal since 0.1.6 |
| 12:37.35 | rwhitby | as soon as the Terminal authors bump the version number in the preware Terminal app Makefile, the autobuilder will have the ipk in the feed within 15 minutes. |
| 12:41.51 | jcrawford | wtf is going on here? |
| 12:41.51 | jcrawford | http://webos.pastebin.com/m79c910a5 |
| 12:42.18 | jcrawford | that is my output log, some reason the this.depot.add() is not saving state, nor is it calling my success or failure callbacks |
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| 12:53.27 | jcrawford | a better log: http://webos.pastebin.com/m6b58a499 |
| 12:53.39 | jcrawford | mot sure why the this.depot.add is not calling my callback functions |
| 12:54.13 | jcrawford | http://pastie.org/581255 |
| 12:54.22 | jcrawford | that is the code for the setFirstUseComplete method |
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| 13:07.09 | FreeTim3 | is amazed at the folks who leave the irc channel after just two minutes of no response... patience, patience... |
| 13:08.41 | jcrawford | described in depth: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1191 |
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| 13:10.09 | oc80z | whats good |
| 13:10.34 | jcrawford | hello oc80z |
| 13:11.59 | FreeTim | Hi Joe. Why not set firstUseAssistant to True after setup, that is, not during cleanup ? - although I agree with you technically it should work from cleanup, perhaps this is one workaround. |
| 13:12.38 | jcrawford | FreeTim: because I want to make sure the user has entered the setup data etc. |
| 13:13.02 | jcrawford | I mean this is just a small sample app but in a "real" app, you would do it when the setup window was closed |
| 13:13.20 | jcrawford | such as an app like a Twitter app, you need to enter your user/pass before you can do anything with the app |
| 13:13.28 | jcrawford | if it does it on setup it is set before you set anything... |
| 13:13.41 | jcrawford | technically it is set before you set anything in cleanup too because you never set anything :) |
| 13:13.46 | FreeTim | I agree with you, and I hope palm Developer responds to you. As workaround see if you can set it somewhere earlier (when user clicks Save?) |
| 13:13.48 | jcrawford | but it will be moved once I get it working |
| 13:14.15 | jcrawford | yea I will add a save button and have that do the depot thing and also push a new scene |
| 13:14.21 | jcrawford | maybe it just does not like the cleanup method :D |
| 13:14.36 | FreeTim | That's what I'm postulating exactly |
| 13:15.44 | FreeTim | does anyone know Vladamir's nick on here... I need to email to him |
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| 13:23.39 | epyon22 | lmorchard|away: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/epyon22/?action=view¤t=DSC00532.jpg |
| 13:23.53 | epyon22 | lmorchard|away: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/epyon22/?action=view¤t=DSC00531.jpg |
| 13:24.16 | muchtall | lmorchard|away: What size is that? |
| 13:25.21 | muchtall | And how does it feel in your hand? Awkward? |
| 13:25.40 | muchtall | er |
| 13:25.54 | muchtall | Oops. Meant to ask that to epyon22 |
| 13:26.25 | epyon22 | its the 2600 extended battery |
| 13:26.31 | epyon22 | from seidio |
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| 13:26.37 | epyon22 | not that akward |
| 13:26.49 | epyon22 | definatly alot bigger than the standard cover though |
| 13:27.23 | muchtall | I keep hoping that someone will come out with a battery that IS the back cover, thus have much more volume for cell storage. |
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| 14:34.28 | CIA-29 | osas * r10554 optware/trunk/make/asterisk16.mk - asterisk16: 1.6.0.10 -> 1.6.0.13 |
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| 15:15.35 | destinal | blau-mikeDg: so you're saying that any app can load js from anywhere on the device? |
| 15:16.20 | destinal | how about the sqlite3 databases? |
| 15:16.58 | blau-mikeDg | dest: wow |
| 15:17.02 | blau-mikeDg | i just came back |
| 15:17.05 | blau-mikeDg | was actually working :) |
| 15:17.10 | destinal | heh |
| 15:17.11 | blau-mikeDg | perfect timing |
| 15:17.15 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: yeah i think you can source a js file anywhere |
| 15:17.19 | blau-mikeDg | lemme paste you my sources.json |
| 15:17.24 | blau-mikeDg | or at least a sample |
| 15:17.57 | destinal | I think probably databases are the way to go for restricting info to one app |
| 15:17.59 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: what were you saying before on the confirmation daemon thingy... something about waiting for something... |
| 15:18.40 | PuffTheMagic | i dont think you can restrict anything on the pre in a database, i didnt see anything about password protection |
| 15:19.10 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: talking about walls between mojo apps |
| 15:19.10 | PuffTheMagic | but there must be a way |
| 15:19.13 | blau-mikeDg | well there isnt a way to reference a database |
| 15:19.25 | destinal | what can one app keep another from accessing, and it sounds like sqlite3 db's is the answer |
| 15:19.27 | blau-mikeDg | like say i want database file xyz |
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| 15:19.44 | blau-mikeDg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.45 | blau-mikeDg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.45 | blau-mikeDg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.45 | blau-mikeDg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:19.46 | blau-mikeDg | sorry |
| 15:19.54 | blau-mikeDg | meant to clean that up to 2 lines before pasting |
| 15:20.00 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: did u have a look at the latest HEAD? |
| 15:20.09 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: nope... whats new |
| 15:21.14 | Zuchmir2 | think i fixed the function in the JS |
| 15:21.26 | Zuchmir2 | not sure if now it's correct |
| 15:22.54 | Zuchmir2 | destinal: i've uploaded the mod to auto-scroll to bottom when user presses key (calling mojo) |
| 15:23.32 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: this.termplugin.keyStatesParentObj = this; |
| 15:23.34 | PuffTheMagic | whats taht about |
| 15:24.02 | PuffTheMagic | you need to make a addKeyStateListener(callback) function in termplugin |
| 15:24.18 | PuffTheMagic | which you call in the plugin when there is a event |
| 15:24.38 | PuffTheMagic | the callback function need to be passed the object with the keystates in it |
| 15:24.41 | Zuchmir2 | that gives me a handle to the parent, so i can call obj.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift) |
| 15:24.52 | Zuchmir2 | it has a fixed callback name |
| 15:25.04 | PuffTheMagic | that is not a great way to do it |
| 15:25.35 | Zuchmir2 | it may not be great, but if it works in phase 1, we can see hpw to tweak it for phase 2 |
| 15:25.35 | PuffTheMagic | the static part that is |
| 15:26.52 | PuffTheMagic | i just dont get how that line is even valid |
| 15:27.28 | Zuchmir2 | i suppose it can be done as this.termplugin.setKeyStatesObj(this, "keyStatesChanged"); but not sure how to do it as this.keyStatesChanged |
| 15:27.43 | PuffTheMagic | why are you exposing the object |
| 15:27.48 | Zuchmir2 | because the plugin stores that value |
| 15:27.52 | PuffTheMagic | right |
| 15:27.57 | PuffTheMagic | but why expose teh object |
| 15:28.03 | PuffTheMagic | like you are doing |
| 15:28.06 | PuffTheMagic | i dont see how that is useful |
| 15:28.27 | Zuchmir2 | because i have to have an object to call with... |
| 15:28.45 | Zuchmir2 | try to study the api.c to see how the callback happens |
| 15:29.30 | PuffTheMagic | the plugin should be calling a callback function in the JS and passing the js function the object |
| 15:29.36 | PuffTheMagic | the object it self should not be exposed |
| 15:29.38 | Zuchmir2 | i've successfully done called scroller.mojo.revealBottom() with this technique |
| 15:29.46 | PuffTheMagic | cause you still need a way to tell the js to when to read the object |
| 15:30.13 | Zuchmir2 | please explain |
| 15:30.50 | PuffTheMagic | you see how in the js, every widget has a addEventListener function |
| 15:31.02 | PuffTheMagic | you tell it why type of event and the callback to call when the event happens |
| 15:31.07 | Zuchmir2 | if need be, i can call it as this.keyStatesChanged(this, gesture, red, sym, shift) |
| 15:32.32 | Zuchmir2 | ... that's because the OS has to know you want the event, this plugin knows you want the event, when it has an "this" and there exists a function "keyStatesChanged" |
| 15:33.15 | PuffTheMagic | well then its like 80% there |
| 15:33.20 | Zuchmir2 | ... ie if(this.keyStatesChanged) { this.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift); } |
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| 15:33.41 | jcrawford | anyone please: http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c |
| 15:33.44 | atlanta | hey hey |
| 15:34.01 | Zuchmir2 | so now, someone has to fill in the SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged with code to do something usefull |
| 15:34.18 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: this.termplugin.addKeyStateListener(this.onKeyStatesChanged.bind(this)); |
| 15:34.41 | PuffTheMagic | then in the plugin you send the event to all registered event listener |
| 15:34.56 | PuffTheMagic | and there should be a removeKeyStateListener function also |
| 15:35.02 | Zuchmir2 | not sure how to do that in the C |
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| 15:35.27 | PuffTheMagic | ok we can worry about that latter |
| 15:35.30 | PuffTheMagic | i get what you did now |
| 15:35.35 | Zuchmir2 | well this.termplugin.scroller = 0; would clear it |
| 15:35.52 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: is there a way disable the yellowbox now? |
| 15:36.16 | Zuchmir2 | yes, by uncommenting the #define in the common.h |
| 15:36.32 | PuffTheMagic | a dynamic way? |
| 15:36.56 | PuffTheMagic | termplugin.setShowKeyStates(true/false); |
| 15:37.01 | Zuchmir2 | ... //#define USE_MOJO_FOR_KEYSTATE |
| 15:37.45 | Zuchmir2 | nope, but i guess it can hinge on if(this.keyStatesChanged) { turn off yellow stuff } |
| 15:38.03 | Zuchmir2 | instead of having it in an #ifdef |
| 15:38.26 | Zuchmir2 | but that would break it for now, as the JS now has the this setup already |
| 15:38.56 | Zuchmir2 | as such the yellow will alway be off even though the new code has not been done yet |
| 15:39.49 | PuffTheMagic | thats not what i am asking |
| 15:40.23 | PuffTheMagic | you cant add a " if (showKeyStates) " block around the code that shows the keystates |
| 15:40.40 | PuffTheMagic | and then let the mojo set the value of showKeyStates |
| 15:40.44 | PuffTheMagic | it could default to true for now |
| 15:41.16 | PuffTheMagic | but then it would allow people who want to play with the keystates on the mojo side to disable it with out rebuilding the plugin |
| 15:41.22 | Zuchmir2 | ok, u nean expose another variable to the JS |
| 15:41.32 | PuffTheMagic | well a function |
| 15:41.43 | PuffTheMagic | like this.terminal.setTermHeight() |
| 15:41.59 | PuffTheMagic | or the setFont |
| 15:42.01 | PuffTheMagic | or setColors |
| 15:42.05 | PuffTheMagic | functions |
| 15:42.17 | Zuchmir2 | this.terminal.showKeyStates = true|false |
| 15:42.31 | PuffTheMagic | its bad practice to expose the actual variable |
| 15:42.37 | Zuchmir2 | either way is fairly simple |
| 15:42.54 | PuffTheMagic | well if you expose the variable then people can pass it bad data and crash things |
| 15:43.02 | PuffTheMagic | if you expose a function you can validate the input |
| 15:43.03 | *** join/#webos-internals xalbo (n=eimi@128.252.20.178) |
| 15:43.04 | Zuchmir2 | umm all objects expose .height .width etc |
| 15:43.10 | Zuchmir2 | same here |
| 15:43.28 | Zuchmir2 | they don't touch the variable directly, it's controlled by the plugin |
| 15:43.38 | PuffTheMagic | .height and .width "should" be private |
| 15:43.55 | Zuchmir2 | it simply "looks" like it's being set |
| 15:43.58 | PuffTheMagic | that was bad design by palm |
| 15:44.37 | Zuchmir2 | they are private, and exposed with code that handles/validates variables |
| 15:45.27 | Zuchmir2 | the API allows for get/set property, and then the C gets told which variable the JS wants to get/set, and what's the value |
| 15:46.12 | Zuchmir2 | ... have a look at the function Object_SetProperty() to see that all that get's validated (in theory) |
| 15:46.30 | PuffTheMagic | well its also a consistency thing... setFont setColors setTermHeight are all functions |
| 15:46.44 | PuffTheMagic | setShowKeyStates should follow that pattern, imo |
| 15:46.49 | PuffTheMagic | but if it works it works |
| 15:46.50 | PuffTheMagic | w/e |
| 15:47.29 | Zuchmir2 | the reason those are functions, is because at the time they were done, didn't know how to set/get properties |
| 15:47.54 | Zuchmir2 | ... also, some of them take 2 or more params |
| 15:48.11 | Zuchmir2 | making it less ideal for simple assignment |
| 15:49.13 | Zuchmir2 | but yes, setTermHeight(x) could be termHeight = x |
| 15:57.17 | Zuchmir2 | ... ok, just exposed showKeyStates, so you can now set this.terminal.showKeyStates = true | false |
| 15:58.44 | PuffTheMagic | is it defaulted to true? |
| 15:58.52 | Zuchmir2 | yes |
| 15:59.06 | Zuchmir2 | showKeyStates(true) |
| 16:01.55 | jcrawford | anyone that can help with this code? |
| 16:02.01 | jcrawford | http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c |
| 16:02.35 | egaudet_work | http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/198051-screen-keyboard-bugs-functionality-enhancements.html |
| 16:03.25 | egaudet_work | lucn bbl |
| 16:03.28 | egaudet_work | lunch* |
| 16:04.18 | Zuchmir2 | egaudet: did u u/l the code for that kbd? |
| 16:05.27 | xalbo | Does anyone know where the wifi settings are stored internally? It seems like the only way to get it to forget a network association is to connect to that network first. |
| 16:16.27 | *** join/#webos-internals jl (n=jl@unaffiliated/JL) |
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| 16:44.09 | egaudet_work | Zuchmir2, yes in modifications/frameworks |
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| 16:46.53 | Zuchmir2 | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/On_Screen_Keyboard ? |
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| 17:08.39 | destinal | interesting, I hadn't considered that palm gets the info on which apps you use and how long, so they'll see metrics on the levels of homebrew adoption |
| 17:09.03 | destinal | wonder how many combined hours of usage the terminal app has racked up around the world. :) |
| 17:09.05 | egaudet_work | I will update the wiki tonight |
| 17:09.34 | destinal | egaudet_work: nice work on the osk btw |
| 17:10.42 | *** join/#webos-internals dug1 (n=Adium@c-69-181-101-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:11.43 | egaudet_work | thanks, glad to be able to contribute |
| 17:12.55 | *** join/#webos-internals blau-mikeDg (n=blau@m3f5736d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:12.59 | Decimation | mornin guys |
| 17:13.09 | Decimation | well, actually, its the afternoon now, but meh :P |
| 17:13.27 | destinal | Decimation: it's still morning here, so you're fine |
| 17:13.43 | destinal | morning |
| 17:13.50 | egaudet_work | so how have you guys managed with the launcher? |
| 17:14.07 | egaudet_work | remove the text? shrink the icon height? |
| 17:14.37 | tlz | its morning here still too ;) |
| 17:15.10 | *** join/#webos-internals digilink (n=digilink@99-207-148-110.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:16.50 | digilink | hi all, I'm trying to setup optware in the emulator (before doing it on my phone just to get familiar with it) and the install script never spawned the user creation function, any ideas? |
| 17:17.03 | destinal | egaudet_work: I've still been looking for the elusive quicklauncher icon size config, probably hard-coded but maybe it could still be modified |
| 17:17.20 | blau-mikeDg | digi: not sure you can do that |
| 17:17.27 | blau-mikeDg | the emulator is a different architecture |
| 17:17.33 | blau-mikeDg | maybe someone will correct me tho |
| 17:17.44 | destinal | blau-mikeDg: the script works on both |
| 17:18.17 | destinal | digilink: I think it may skip the user creation on the emulator, since it ships with root ssh login |
| 17:18.27 | blau-mikeDg | oh ok |
| 17:18.30 | egaudet_work | destinal, I believe it might be hard-coded since stopping LunaSysMgr still shows the quicklaunch although the pre is not functional |
| 17:18.31 | digilink | hmm ok |
| 17:19.08 | destinal | egaudet_work: well stopping LunaSysMgr shows the whole screen, that's just the frame buffer not being wiped |
| 17:20.07 | egaudet_work | Ahh yes my mistake. You have the code for the launcher right? |
| 17:20.09 | destinal | but I do think the quicklaunch may be all defined in code in LunaSysMgr since you can remove /usr/lib/palm and everything else stops working but quicklaunch dock is fine |
| 17:20.31 | egaudet_work | Have you attempted to track down where in the launcher it allows user to drag icon (eventually down to quicklaunch?) |
| 17:21.20 | destinal | no, though that code could be in luna as well rather than the pseudo-app |
| 17:21.29 | digilink | WOW I just got reason to get excited... just saw all the apps available and Asterisk is one of them!!!! Also like the package manager, very similar to apt-get, my favorite!!!! |
| 17:21.48 | digilink | <--- just got my pre yesterday |
| 17:23.12 | egaudet_work | Yea you are probably right |
| 17:23.15 | destinal | digilink: yeah, although just running a pbx on your phone doesn't have a lot of value by itself.. if pulseaudio or alsa channels worked and we added a client mojo app to make calls it would also make it a softphone |
| 17:23.57 | digilink | true, but I can add SIP peers to it and IAX to my box back home |
| 17:24.31 | digilink | will be handy when I have no internet connectivity besides my phone :) |
| 17:24.45 | destinal | oh I see |
| 17:24.57 | destinal | so then connect a sip phone to it over wifi or something |
| 17:25.08 | digilink | yep exactly :) |
| 17:25.48 | digilink | for example I could use x-lite on my macbook and connect it via wifi to the phone |
| 17:25.50 | destinal | you'll have to let me know how voip codecs work over EVDO |
| 17:26.05 | digilink | definitely.... this kicks butt!!!! |
| 17:26.41 | digilink | Ill probably end up having to use GSM or speex, ulaw may be questionable |
| 17:26.48 | digilink | we'll see |
| 17:27.04 | destinal | digilink: yeah, I don't think of my pre as a phone but as a 600 mhz arm linux box that happens to run phone software. :) |
| 17:27.22 | digilink | LOL yea good way to look at it |
| 17:27.50 | digilink | I was really on the fence about getting one, but once Palm gave their blessing and giving us the SDK it was a no brainer for me |
| 17:28.33 | destinal | digilink: well they still haven't made a binary sdk, but we've gotten terminal and custom system services working without any official support there |
| 17:29.13 | digilink | thats awesome, Ive still got a bit of reading to do, I am totally blown away with what the community has done with this phone thus far |
| 17:29.54 | digilink | I just hope Palm decides to keep access as open as it is now, this platform has massive potential |
| 17:33.28 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@nat/hp/x-1e6e87bb7a45329f) |
| 17:35.20 | Decimation | rwhitby: i changed the patch name, along with removed the launcher pages from it. |
| 17:36.00 | blau-mikeDg | i need a name for my android app |
| 17:36.16 | blau-mikeDg | its a talking web browser and provides some universal search |
| 17:36.28 | bpadalino|work | Gabby |
| 17:39.01 | Decimation | can anyone check to see if i pushed changes to git for patch correctly? |
| 17:39.11 | bpadalino|work | where did you push them ? |
| 17:39.33 | Decimation | modifications/luna/more-icons-per-row |
| 17:39.40 | Decimation | and no, i just checked the site, i didnt :/ |
| 17:39.43 | Decimation | ugh, what am i doing wrong. |
| 17:40.00 | bpadalino|work | git push origin ? |
| 17:40.05 | jcrawford | HAH OK i see my error with the depot |
| 17:40.12 | jcrawford | now to figure out a way around it :) |
| 17:40.18 | bpadalino|work | i need to give rwhitby my ssh keys |
| 17:40.58 | jcrawford | basically what is happening is this, when the app is opened it creates the depot object which opens the db and then calls a callback. However the app is not waiting for that callback to be completed so this.firstUseComplete is not set to true just yet |
| 17:41.12 | jcrawford | guess this is a logic issue I need some assistance for :D anyone up for it? |
| 17:41.47 | *** join/#webos-internals xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-cc4578dc05f6e03d) |
| 17:45.44 | Decimation | bpadalino: yeah, i gave him mine yesterday |
| 17:45.50 | Decimation | but it denied me permission. |
| 17:46.45 | egaudet_work | jcrawford, link me to the code again? |
| 17:46.46 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@nat/hp/x-a332f7672450d129) |
| 17:47.00 | jcrawford | http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c |
| 17:47.27 | jcrawford | egaudet_work: the issue is in the app controller, I am doing if( this.depot.isFirstUseComplete() !== true) |
| 17:47.50 | jcrawford | the issue is that when that if is run the depot has not finished setting up yet so in the depot class this.isFirstUseComplete = undefined |
| 17:47.59 | jcrawford | because it does not wait for the depot callbacks to complete |
| 17:48.56 | Decimation | any one here that can push the changes to git for me |
| 17:49.16 | egaudet_work | Could you just add in a depont_done variable that you loop on after calling setFirstUseComplete |
| 17:49.24 | nebula | jcrawford: http://www.startuphire.com/search/details.php?job=58435 |
| 17:49.48 | egaudet_work | along with a timeout, and have both callbacks set it |
| 17:50.07 | PuffTheMagic | so i was thinking about this whole quilt usage thing |
| 17:50.32 | PuffTheMagic | why not track the pre's root with git, but keep the .git directory on media-internal |
| 17:50.36 | PuffTheMagic | in th 7gig section |
| 17:51.36 | egaudet_work | genius puff |
| 17:52.07 | jcrawford | nebula: not my ballgame more of a sys admin role than developer :) |
| 17:52.12 | jcrawford | brb |
| 17:52.49 | egaudet_work | PuffTheMagic, this would require everyone to start with a stock pre |
| 17:53.00 | PuffTheMagic | no it wouldnt |
| 17:53.25 | egaudet_work | how not? |
| 17:53.48 | PuffTheMagic | you can start using git to track changes no matter what the state of the pre |
| 17:54.24 | egaudet_work | you can't have different pres tracking at different states |
| 17:54.33 | egaudet_work | and expect a global patch to succeed |
| 17:55.37 | *** join/#webos-internals muchtall (n=muchtall@70-99-118-66.apigroupinc.com) |
| 17:56.32 | Decimation | Puff: do you have permissions to push changes to git |
| 17:57.36 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet_work: people with different quilt series files is not different |
| 17:57.48 | PuffTheMagic | if person has setup A and applys a patch it might fail |
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| 18:02.44 | egaudet_work | PuffTheMagic, so what problem does maintaing / in git solve? |
| 18:02.50 | egaudet_work | err tracking / |
| 18:07.08 | PuffTheMagic | i guess if you just apply patches it might not be any better, if if you are editing code and want to track changes git does a better job since it "auto tracks" changes to files it already knows about |
| 18:07.16 | PuffTheMagic | no forgetting to use quilt edit |
| 18:07.24 | PuffTheMagic | to make the changes tracked |
| 18:10.25 | egaudet_work | ahhh ok, that does sound good |
| 18:11.35 | PuffTheMagic | but the fact that we are touching palm files is gonna make life a pain period |
| 18:12.00 | PuffTheMagic | i think we should try and figure out how to make standalone apps that can override default app behavior somehow |
| 18:12.49 | PuffTheMagic | and on a side note... has anyone thought of making a cpufreq app |
| 18:13.02 | PuffTheMagic | and or adding the proc speed to the main header |
| 18:13.13 | *** join/#webos-internals branded (n=branded@38.107.64.2) |
| 18:13.28 | egaudet_work | If we could find a way to bring in js after/during framework initialize we could |
| 18:13.35 | branded | howdy fellas |
| 18:13.47 | PuffTheMagic | and has anyone looked into putting "stuff" on the desktop of the palm |
| 18:13.52 | PuffTheMagic | like a nice larger clock |
| 18:13.54 | branded | what's the deal with this location reporting "featuring" reporting location back to palm? |
| 18:14.53 | branded | http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ |
| 18:14.58 | branded | pretty nice! |
| 18:16.40 | enio | trapster is coming to palm pre |
| 18:16.41 | enio | yey |
| 18:16.42 | enio | :D |
| 18:16.44 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet_work: what if we make a patch to the main mojo file |
| 18:16.49 | PuffTheMagic | that allows something like that |
| 18:16.52 | destinal | I was thinking about this. does this mean if you're accused of committing a crime, law enforcement / prosecution can obtain records of everywhere you were on the day of a crime? |
| 18:17.06 | dijital1 | hmm |
| 18:17.21 | tlz | that would suck |
| 18:17.38 | tlz | guess if im going to commit a crime, leave my phone at home |
| 18:17.44 | egaudet_work | I don't know who brings in/calls the palmInitFramework, but if it is in a file we can patch, then we should definitely do that. And then instead of "patching" palm files we could add our own custom ones |
| 18:17.45 | tlz | I WAS HOME ALL DAY OFFICER |
| 18:18.05 | egaudet_work | If it's as simple as mojo.js that would be amazing, but I fear it might even be done in LunaSysMgr |
| 18:18.40 | PuffTheMagic | i think it might be mojo.js |
| 18:18.41 | PuffTheMagic | idk |
| 18:18.44 | PuffTheMagic | i can look |
| 18:19.07 | egaudet_work | I don't have access to the files at work (EVDO is almost non-existent, can't ssh to pre) |
| 18:19.20 | PuffTheMagic | looking at mojo.js |
| 18:19.55 | egaudet_work | when you get a chance run LunaSysMgr on the foreground and you can see the stdout print of bringing in the palmInitFramework javascripts in builtins/ directory |
| 18:20.33 | *** join/#webos-internals hemna (n=waboring@nat/hp/x-fdec1b48156ac228) |
| 18:21.56 | jcrawford | egaudet_work: i guess I could but there has to be a better way :) |
| 18:23.55 | lmorchard | Hmm, really hoping there's a good explanation for the location and application usage reporting back to palm |
| 18:26.36 | branded | is no one concerned about the idea of webos uploading location and other info to palm? |
| 18:26.44 | nebula | meh |
| 18:26.45 | branded | hah, oh there we go |
| 18:26.49 | egaudet_work | jcrawford, are you calling the depot at application close time? |
| 18:26.52 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet_work: looks like framework.js might be usefull ;) |
| 18:27.01 | nebula | lets keep on topic, location privacy #webos ;) |
| 18:27.07 | branded | hah okay |
| 18:27.10 | jcrawford | egaudet_work: this is how it is working currently |
| 18:27.11 | nebula | np |
| 18:27.16 | egaudet_work | what dir is that in PuffTheMagic |
| 18:27.17 | lmorchard | It's pretty much on topic for internals |
| 18:27.17 | Zuchmir2 | maybe mv /var/log/rdxd/pending /var/log/rdxd/pending-;touch /var/log/rdxd/pending would block that logging |
| 18:27.25 | Decimation | okay guys, im leaving for a while, but i will stay in IRC |
| 18:27.26 | lmorchard | since it's a system demon sending it |
| 18:27.28 | PuffTheMagic | well im looking in the sdk |
| 18:27.31 | jcrawford | egaudet_work: want to discuss this in #webos? |
| 18:27.33 | PuffTheMagic | but it has to be on the pre |
| 18:27.40 | PuffTheMagic | /opt/PalmSDK/0.1/share/framework/javascripts/framework.js |
| 18:27.53 | Decimation | if anyone finds anything reguarding 6 icons on the launcher, let me know :) |
| 18:28.21 | egaudet_work | on the pre it's /usr/palm/frameworks/ |
| 18:28.46 | egaudet_work | I don't know but i think that file (on emulator) might be analogous to the large palmInitFramework191_15.js file? |
| 18:31.01 | PuffTheMagic | Mojo.loadScript = function(path) { |
| 18:31.01 | PuffTheMagic | Mojo._injectScript(path); |
| 18:31.02 | PuffTheMagic | }; |
| 18:31.11 | PuffTheMagic | Uses document.write to add a script tag to the currently loading document. |
| 18:31.22 | PuffTheMagic | Can only be used during document load. Not recommended |
| 18:32.29 | egaudet_work | That sounds.... promising! |
| 18:34.10 | PuffTheMagic | Mojo.setupFramework = function() { |
| 18:34.16 | PuffTheMagic | that could be neat too |
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| 18:35.58 | PuffTheMagic | also the controller_*.js files could be hacked i bet |
| 18:36.05 | egaudet_work | This could... open the door for... amazing things |
| 18:37.42 | egaudet_work | If we can get an extra js to be setup from one of those places, we could patch only that to add custom js. Have the js linked to a writeable area, allowing for an app to customize and then reboot luna |
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| 18:52.32 | *** join/#webos-internals sam1am (n=sam1am@unaffiliated/sam1am) |
| 18:52.45 | sam1am | Hello - does anyone know which log file is uploaded to Palm? |
| 18:52.58 | sam1am | I'm talking about this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9864/palm-pre-reports-users-daily-actions-and-location/ |
| 18:54.04 | jjore | Dunno, but it uploads more than that. I wiped my phone w/ webos doctor last week and it automatically reinstalled Terminal w/ no action from me. I assume that wouldn't be possible w/o also uploading either the app itself or the install URL. |
| 18:54.26 | sam1am | weird |
| 18:54.26 | jjore | Well, that'd likely be part of the daily backup but /still/. |
| 18:55.22 | sam1am | I was just going to write an app to input tons of erroneous information into the log files. Applications opening up 100 times a minute that don't even exist, jet setting GPS locations across the globe, etc. |
| 18:55.51 | jjore | So FWIW, anyone who installed My Tether would also find that snitched out. |
| 18:55.58 | jjore | er, backed up. |
| 18:56.01 | sam1am | They can collect my information if they want, they just won't be able to get anything useful out of it |
| 18:56.25 | sam1am | That must be new, because none of my sideloaded apps were restored when I did the same process |
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| 18:59.11 | destinal | jjore: I don't think they back up any apps, just make a list and reinstall the ones off the catalog |
| 18:59.48 | sam1am | that was my impression |
| 18:59.59 | destinal | jjore: it reinstall Terminal for you? |
| 19:00.06 | jjore | Yes. |
| 19:00.13 | destinal | that's amazing and surprising to me |
| 19:00.34 | Technobabble | i was on my house phone and i nmaped my cell looking to see if the ssh port was open |
| 19:00.42 | jjore | and Nascar too. :-( |
| 19:00.46 | Technobabble | and man, the phone made all sorts of noise |
| 19:00.54 | destinal | jjore: nascar comes on the device |
| 19:00.55 | Technobabble | it was rather interesting |
| 19:01.13 | jjore | Yes, I know. It was a mild joke. |
| 19:01.15 | sam1am | What do you mean noise? |
| 19:01.26 | destinal | Technobabble: so that must mean there are interesting ports open that react strangely to being probed |
| 19:01.32 | destinal | Technobabble: did you have dev mode on? |
| 19:02.30 | destinal | jjore: when you installed terminal originally, you installed it from preware or something else? |
| 19:02.49 | jjore | I don't recall the steps I followed. Sorry. |
| 19:02.59 | destinal | the ones on the wiki though?: |
| 19:04.58 | jjore | Yes |
| 19:05.04 | jjore | some version of it anyway. |
| 19:05.13 | sam1am | I am skeptical |
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| 19:06.22 | enio | terminal stopped at 0.1.6 version? |
| 19:08.04 | jjore | I'm grepping for Terminal. I'll tell you what I find. |
| 19:08.20 | enio | http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/ last version is 0.1.6 |
| 19:09.48 | Zuchmir2 | jjore: cd /var/usr/palm/applications |
| 19:09.59 | Zuchmir2 | ls org.* |
| 19:10.26 | Zuchmir2 | or ls *term* u should see terminal there |
| 19:11.30 | Zuchmir2 | ... my guess is, doctor doesn't erase files, it only overwrites/re-installs files |
| 19:11.52 | Zuchmir2 | ... and since terminal is not their app, they dont touch it |
| 19:12.19 | enio | i did doctor and it whiped out everything |
| 19:12.43 | enio | wiped* |
| 19:13.37 | jjore | http://pastie.org/581724 # shows it likely retained the files through the Doctor. |
| 19:14.03 | *** join/#webos-internals funkatron (n=coj@dhcp-242-11.cerias.purdue.edu) |
| 19:14.12 | destinal | Zuchmir2: doctor rewrites the rootfs totally AFAIK |
| 19:14.57 | Zuchmir2 | ok |
| 19:15.10 | jjore | I used Doctor late on August 7th because I planned to show up at a predevcamp the following day. Some of the files in that directory were last modified July 30th which sounds right for when I installed Terminal |
| 19:15.18 | Zuchmir2 | ... so how do u think term survived? |
| 19:15.49 | jjore | Zuchmir2++ |
| 19:15.56 | destinal | jjore: the July 30th date could be the archive date which would be preserved |
| 19:16.20 | jjore | Yes, it /could/ be. |
| 19:16.27 | *** join/#webos-internals mikeos (n=mikeos@80.95.251.10) |
| 19:16.39 | destinal | whenever you extract tar archives their dates will be restored if possible |
| 19:17.19 | Technobabble | dest, dev mode is off and no ports showed on the normal scan (apparently 222 isn't a normal nmap port) |
| 19:17.33 | Technobabble | and the sound i heard was through the ear piece of my normal house phone |
| 19:17.55 | destinal | Technobabble: what was your nmap command line? and have you been able to reproduce the situation a second time |
| 19:17.58 | Technobabble | ya know how when your phone is about to ring, you hear the data packets making that noise? |
| 19:18.04 | destinal | oh, right |
| 19:18.21 | destinal | so it was radio interference from the CDMA modem |
| 19:18.26 | Technobabble | it was just an nmap -P0 ipaddr |
| 19:18.29 | Technobabble | right |
| 19:18.34 | destinal | or, hmm |
| 19:18.39 | destinal | could it possibly have been from wifi? |
| 19:18.41 | Technobabble | but i found it interesting 'cause i could hear each packet |
| 19:18.47 | Technobabble | no, wifi's not on ATM |
| 19:18.51 | jjore | "each packet?" |
| 19:19.08 | Technobabble | jjore, yeah, "each packet" should be in quotes |
| 19:19.23 | Technobabble | it's probably sending a bunch of the scan stuff in bunches |
| 19:22.56 | Technobabble | am i supposed to be able to ssh into 222 on my CDMA network IP? |
| 19:22.59 | Technobabble | or just my wifi |
| 19:23.09 | Technobabble | or is it EVDO, or whatever that's called |
| 19:26.31 | destinal | Technobabble: depends on your iptables rules in your optware-dropbear config file |
| 19:26.45 | destinal | in /etc/event.d |
| 19:26.52 | Technobabble | i'll have a check |
| 19:27.04 | Technobabble | it's not on by default though, right? |
| 19:27.06 | destinal | I think it defaults to -i eth0 |
| 19:27.14 | destinal | for wifi |
| 19:27.24 | Technobabble | dest, what's your page for your terminal program again? |
| 19:27.27 | Technobabble | i'll use that |
| 19:28.08 | destinal | Technobabble: note, it's not mine per se, I'm just one of several contributers |
| 19:28.10 | destinal | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal |
| 19:29.30 | destinal | I kind of got the ball rolling but mrvc and Zuchmir2 have done significantly more of it then I have at this point |
| 19:30.24 | destinal | and others from here have added important pieces |
| 19:34.03 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: doctor erases whole device |
| 19:34.06 | PuffTheMagic | from my experience at least |
| 19:34.14 | PuffTheMagic | clean slate |
| 19:35.49 | Zuchmir2 | Puff: ok, so how do u think it survive jjore's case? |
| 19:36.32 | PuffTheMagic | idk, did dr. really run completly? |
| 19:36.41 | PuffTheMagic | i know i had a clean slate when i ran dr. |
| 19:37.03 | PuffTheMagic | maybe he used an old jar instead of getting the latest from palm directly and the old one had a odd behavior |
| 19:37.04 | PuffTheMagic | idk |
| 19:37.34 | PuffTheMagic | i know the erase/reset on the plam dont do mucbh either |
| 19:38.08 | Zuchmir2 | jjore: look at the creating/mod date of the folder @ http://pastie.org/581724 it's Aug 7! |
| 19:39.02 | Zuchmir2 | which means it came back on friday |
| 19:39.49 | *** join/#webos-internals bsdbandit (n=csh11@wsip-24-249-123-207.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 19:40.05 | bsdbandit | http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/08/12/palm-pre-owners-big-brother-is-watching/ |
| 19:40.14 | bsdbandit | did anyone read this today |
| 19:42.49 | enio | its on precentral too |
| 19:42.50 | enio | :p |
| 19:43.36 | bsdbandit | :P |
| 19:43.39 | bsdbandit | yeah man |
| 19:44.39 | Technobabble | bsdbandit, that scares the crap outa me |
| 19:45.05 | Technobabble | did they have a way to disable it? |
| 19:45.11 | nebula | yup |
| 19:45.15 | nebula | end of the article |
| 19:45.18 | nebula | precentral |
| 19:45.24 | nebula | it's in /etc/init.d/ |
| 19:45.34 | bsdbandit | i think its through the firewall right |
| 19:45.34 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:45.46 | nebula | just delete the script |
| 19:45.56 | Technobabble | fuck, on a dialy basis? really? |
| 19:46.24 | bsdbandit | whats the name of the script |
| 19:46.25 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:48.33 | Technobabble | /etc/event.d/uploadd from the looks of it |
| 19:49.16 | nebula | sounds familiar |
| 19:49.21 | nebula | cat it |
| 19:49.28 | nebula | it might not even be binary |
| 19:49.42 | nebula | -> train -> home |
| 19:50.20 | bsdbandit | i thought it is updater.sh |
| 19:50.20 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:51.09 | Decimation | you guys |
| 19:51.11 | Decimation | im looking at this |
| 19:51.13 | Decimation | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Alt_optmedia |
| 19:51.33 | Decimation | This document will replace step 2 of the Setting_up_optware_feed how-to. Everything before and after is the same. |
| 19:51.37 | Decimation | what does it mean by that |
| 19:51.57 | Rick_Work | We've known about phone home for about a month guys. |
| 19:52.36 | bsdbandit | ithey technobabble is it the uploadd script |
| 19:52.36 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:53.41 | Zuchmir2 | do any of the files it sends have device-id/phone-number/personal data? |
| 19:54.00 | bsdbandit | hey rick_work |
| 19:54.10 | bsdbandit | how does one disable this |
| 19:54.23 | bsdbandit | through the uploadd script |
| 19:54.30 | bsdbandit | but deleting it |
| 19:54.30 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:54.57 | Rick_Work | http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ |
| 19:55.07 | Rick_Work | that's the disable. |
| 19:55.18 | Rick_Work | But as I said, we've talked about this in here for over a month. |
| 19:55.42 | Rick_Work | No great suprises in it. It's been sniffed, captured and the source looked at weeks go. Joey just got PRESS. |
| 19:55.43 | bsdbandit | i have not been with you guys a month |
| 19:55.53 | Rick_Work | now, I have a question. What's the big f'ing deal? |
| 19:55.59 | lmorchard | I've been lurking here a few weeks and must've missed it |
| 19:56.05 | bsdbandit | me 2 |
| 19:56.14 | bsdbandit | what did you say about it rick_work |
| 19:56.16 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 19:56.52 | lmorchard | Seemed like a big deal at first thought, but worried less and less the more I think about it |
| 19:57.12 | dreadchicken | the info upload doesn't concern me, but then i don't have a dead hooker in the trunk of my car. |
| 19:57.51 | lmorchard | Pretty sure other phones have been doing it in one form or another for years |
| 19:57.53 | Rick_Work | what's it sending. Your gps position when apps on the phone crash -- a condition of service for the carrier so that they can tell which towers are causing problems. All phones do that. |
| 19:58.06 | Rick_Work | it's sending the crash log of apps that crash. |
| 19:58.21 | lmorchard | Now I'm more concerned about Palm getting the shaft about it |
| 19:58.33 | Rick_Work | it's sending the ipkg list of installed apps, so they can figure out which ones are interfeering with each other |
| 19:58.42 | Rick_Work | and it's sending the use-order info for the apps, ditto. |
| 19:58.47 | Rick_Work | big f-ing deal. |
| 19:58.49 | dreadchicken | but i will certainly add "disable Pre phone home" to my dead hooker plan. |
| 19:59.01 | Rick_Work | it is NOT sending the list of web sites you visit |
| 19:59.02 | bsdbandit | lol |
| 19:59.11 | Rick_Work | it is not sending the list of phone numbers you talk to |
| 19:59.30 | lmorchard | starts drafting plan to manufacture a Faraday cage belt case. |
| 19:59.31 | Rick_Work | (althoug, of course, SPRINTS routers know all that information, except when you're on wifi for the browser.) |
| 19:59.57 | Rick_Work | It's not sending the list of everyone you message or email with, it doesn't need to, SPRINTS servers already HAVE all that. |
| 20:00.19 | Rick_Work | So, bsdbandit what is it, exactly that you are concerned about here? |
| 20:00.34 | bsdbandit | o |
| 20:01.29 | PuffTheMagic | so where is the link to disabling that |
| 20:01.48 | bsdbandit | rm /usr/bin/contextupload |
| 20:02.23 | PuffTheMagic | bsdbandit: that is for the crashupload thing... i forgot i was scrolled up so the question was out of context |
| 20:06.09 | djk1 | is anyone working on adding support for other IM systems like yahoo, sametime, etc? |
| 20:09.32 | Templarian | djk1: kind of hoping that would come from palm tbh. |
| 20:11.12 | djk1 | Templarian: good point I should ask in webos not here. |
| 20:12.03 | djk1 | Templarian: fyi on the space problem I had yesterday it seems Palm has put a limit on the number of non palm apps. |
| 20:12.26 | Templarian | They might of had to still setup everything for push probably. |
| 20:12.27 | Rick_Work | djk1 not exactly |
| 20:12.41 | Templarian | djk1: really? |
| 20:12.48 | Rick_Work | Templarian not exactly |
| 20:12.59 | djk1 | no? That was the comment from on precentral |
| 20:13.40 | djk1 | and it seems valid since df -ah show plenty of space and if I delete an app I can another |
| 20:13.56 | Rick_Work | df in /var? |
| 20:13.58 | Templarian | djk1: curious what's your app count? |
| 20:14.49 | Templarian | thinks hehe more apps that what the app store has atm... |
| 20:15.03 | djk1 | That part that I find not to match the response of a limit of 60 and I had 45+ in the non apps |
| 20:15.08 | *** join/#webos-internals dug1 (n=Adium@adsl-75-60-67-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:15.19 | Templarian | s/app store/app catelog/ |
| 20:15.33 | Rick_Work | djk1 how many _total_ apps did you have loaded? |
| 20:15.50 | Rick_Work | How many apps did you have on PAGE ONE of your launcher, and what was df of the /var partition? |
| 20:16.26 | Templarian | Yea, I think there is a limit per page... (might be 20) |
| 20:17.04 | djk1 | Ah a page limit have to check on that |
| 20:17.28 | djk1 | I have multiple pages and just move some things around |
| 20:18.04 | Templarian | will probably figure out eventually that there is also a page limit lol |
| 20:18.16 | Rick_Work | what thread were you reading on precentral |
| 20:20.19 | Rick_Work | djk1??? |
| 20:22.16 | Rick_Work | djk1 Templarian -- I have had as many as 100 apps on my phone at once. |
| 20:22.22 | Rick_Work | I do not think there is a limit in launcher. |
| 20:22.25 | djk1 | hand on multitasking (I know human really can't really do thta;-) ) |
| 20:22.29 | Rick_Work | ((( although there might be))) |
| 20:22.44 | Rick_Work | I truely think that the only limit is the space in /var. |
| 20:22.57 | Rick_Work | I have run up against THat six or seven times. |
| 20:23.13 | Rick_Work | Remember that the iphone only allows 128 apps. |
| 20:23.33 | Rick_Work | but as far as I can tell, the only REAL limit is the space in /var |
| 20:23.38 | djk1 | if that is so wonder what the line is since /var has lots of space left |
| 20:23.43 | Rick_Work | which looks to have been SERIOUSLY under-sized. |
| 20:23.53 | Rick_Work | djk1 what's the df in your /var? |
| 20:24.06 | Rick_Work | the installer quits when the space free is < 89% |
| 20:24.12 | djk1 | 248.0M 119.6M 128.4M 48% /var |
| 20:24.15 | Rick_Work | oooops |
| 20:24.22 | Rick_Work | I ment free < 11% |
| 20:24.24 | Rick_Work | ok, |
| 20:24.34 | Rick_Work | and you have three pagesin the launcher. |
| 20:24.38 | Rick_Work | how many apps on page one? |
| 20:24.50 | *** join/#webos-internals glp (n=glp@2303ds1-fm.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 20:24.50 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v glp] by ChanServ |
| 20:25.39 | dijital1 | hmmm |
| 20:26.20 | djk1 | 42 but I just moved things arond |
| 20:26.23 | djk1 | around |
| 20:26.40 | djk1 | thta might be what they meant of 60 apps on the first page |
| 20:27.08 | Rick_Work | which would imply 180 total apps on a thre-page unmodified palm |
| 20:27.27 | Rick_Work | unless you add pages.... |
| 20:28.18 | Templarian | bets someone would fill their device with just apps if the /var folder was expanded. |
| 20:28.23 | djk1 | I have addedd pages |
| 20:29.00 | Templarian | djk1: so moving the apps around didn't make a difference? |
| 20:30.02 | djk1 | not sure I have to trying more |
| 20:30.04 | djk1 | again |
| 20:31.20 | *** join/#webos-internals toddcrowe (n=toddcrow@or-71-0-51-132.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:31.47 | djk1 | aurgh I can't find the post I made for the reply of 60 |
| 20:32.17 | Technobabble | does the palm has lsof? |
| 20:32.19 | Technobabble | have |
| 20:32.29 | Technobabble | oh god, i just sounded like a lolcat there, sorry guys |
| 20:33.09 | Technobabble | nope, but i just installed it, disregard that |
| 20:33.22 | lmorchard | you can has ipkg? |
| 20:33.59 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: ping |
| 20:35.18 | PuffTheMagic | Rick_Work: ping |
| 20:35.31 | djk1 | Rick_Work: here a link to some reference on the app limit. Not the one I have originally. |
| 20:35.31 | djk1 | http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194825-filecoaster-first-pre-gui-downloader-installer-37.html |
| 20:41.59 | djk1 | Templarian: app count on first page doesn't seem to be it. I added 2 more get the error trying to add a 3rd more one to another page still get an error |
| 20:42.39 | djk1 | and still lots of space |
| 20:42.39 | djk1 | 248.0M 121.5M 126.5M 49% /var |
| 20:43.34 | Templarian | I only have like 20 apps i'm no where near you guys lol... Hopefully you figure it out. |
| 20:44.06 | djk1 | do you get an error? |
| 20:44.44 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: tested this, the info does comethough correctly: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/c9ea6dab1ce0ab1e03d10766e24d5ad8362d1c25 |
| 20:44.46 | djk1 | this is while using the fileCoaster app to install |
| 20:46.11 | dijital1 | hmm |
| 20:46.16 | dijital1 | crap.. puff is here |
| 20:46.23 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: so if someone want to use this, and add support for fancy stuff in JS, go ahead |
| 20:46.46 | dijital1 | was about to rant about no multitasking |
| 20:47.12 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: how does one actually see stuff that is outputed to Mojo.Log.info |
| 20:47.41 | dijital1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.43 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: cool |
| 20:47.43 | Zuchmir2 | change info to error, and tail -f /var/log/messages |
| 20:47.46 | dijital1 | :) |
| 20:47.59 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: ahh i didnt realize it used syslog |
| 20:48.15 | Zuchmir2 | ... there's also somewhere to change log level to 99, and then info is also in that file |
| 20:49.16 | *** join/#webos-internals epyon22 (n=quassel@ip72-196-213-120.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 20:51.36 | PuffTheMagic | the more and more i use my pre the more and more i hate notifications |
| 20:51.38 | Zuchmir2 | http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1725 |
| 20:51.43 | PuffTheMagic | i thought it would be a sweet feature |
| 20:51.46 | PuffTheMagic | but its fucking annoying |
| 20:56.37 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: just added that file to the HEAD |
| 20:56.50 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i know about it |
| 20:57.04 | PuffTheMagic | i just didnt know "where" the output went |
| 20:57.13 | Zuchmir2 | .. so now Mojo.Log.info() will show up in /var/log/messages |
| 20:57.15 | PuffTheMagic | finds it easier to use console.log() |
| 20:57.28 | Zuchmir2 | where does that go? |
| 20:57.34 | PuffTheMagic | stdout |
| 20:57.37 | Zuchmir2 | to sdterr? |
| 20:57.44 | PuffTheMagic | no that is console.error90 |
| 20:57.46 | PuffTheMagic | () |
| 20:58.01 | Zuchmir2 | but that means u have to startstop/start luna in fg |
| 20:58.33 | egaudet_work | agrees, stdout wins |
| 21:00.24 | Zuchmir2 | usually i prefer stdout/stderr, but when ssh, i don't want to freeze the pre when it disconnects |
| 21:00.32 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i do that anyway |
| 21:00.50 | PuffTheMagic | dev on the emulator... not the pre |
| 21:00.54 | Zuchmir2 | what stop/start, or freeze? |
| 21:01.12 | PuffTheMagic | run luna in fg |
| 21:01.27 | Zuchmir2 | ok, my setup the emulator segfaults if i run it in fg! |
| 21:01.39 | Zuchmir2 | so i have to use the pre |
| 21:02.59 | PuffTheMagic | that happened to me the first few times i tried it |
| 21:03.02 | PuffTheMagic | but it dont any more |
| 21:03.04 | PuffTheMagic | idk what caused it |
| 21:03.10 | PuffTheMagic | but got the segfaults too |
| 21:04.21 | Zuchmir2 | did u test this patch, and see the output? |
| 21:04.44 | Zuchmir2 | to me the output looked correct |
| 21:07.46 | PuffTheMagic | no i didnt test it yet |
| 21:10.51 | PuffTheMagic | !seen Hopspitfire |
| 21:11.01 | PuffTheMagic | or is it ~ |
| 21:14.47 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: back |
| 21:15.14 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: pong |
| 21:15.15 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: i keep missing your answer about the confirmation app |
| 21:15.26 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: and could you make me a new repo on gitorious |
| 21:15.45 | PuffTheMagic | kernel.git :D |
| 21:15.54 | *** join/#webos-internals Sjpeterman (n=sjpeterm@c-98-235-250-118.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:16.06 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: I have the confirmation thing mapped out on paper but not implemented in code |
| 21:16.15 | PuffTheMagic | k |
| 21:16.25 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: also we're moving away from gitorious to git.webos-internals.org |
| 21:16.34 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i know |
| 21:16.48 | PuffTheMagic | but it wont hurt anything ;) |
| 21:17.37 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@static-208-187-122-54.bbsc.net) |
| 21:27.37 | PuffTheMagic | geist: ping!!!!! |
| 21:27.53 | PuffTheMagic | geist: can you send me the url to your omap jtag boot thingy |
| 21:28.16 | bsdbandit | hey anyone know how to change the wallpaper |
| 21:29.31 | bsdbandit | i ve uploaded the jpg images to the /media/internal/wallpapers directory but when i go to change wallpaper i cannot see it |
| 21:29.34 | bsdbandit | ? |
| 21:30.04 | Rick_Work | did you size them properly? |
| 21:30.32 | bsdbandit | it only shows the 12 images |
| 21:30.43 | *** join/#webos-internals Banger (n=lokl@adsl-99-156-214-6.dsl.applwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:30.55 | bsdbandit | it does not even give me an option to chose the 13.jpg |
| 21:31.03 | bsdbandit | thats what i renamed the file |
| 21:32.29 | Technobabble | <+Rick_Work> did you size them properly? |
| 21:33.00 | Technobabble | i had an issue with a Greyscale pic, changed it to RGB and it was fine |
| 21:34.05 | bsdbandit | oh ok |
| 21:34.16 | bsdbandit | im going to download a jpg right now |
| 21:34.19 | bsdbandit | and try again |
| 21:36.43 | *** join/#webos-internals egaudet (n=egaudet@pool-173-48-248-214.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:36.46 | egaudet | j #webos |
| 21:38.22 | *** join/#webos-internals quotemstr (n=danc@64.61.107.66) |
| 21:38.34 | quotemstr | Is the Pre wifi chipset capable of operating in infrastructure mode? |
| 21:38.41 | bsdbandit | ok that worked |
| 21:38.43 | bsdbandit | thanks |
| 21:41.08 | Zuchmir2 | destinal: what is the confirmation app? |
| 21:42.18 | destinal | Zuchmir2: imagine a service that your service can talk to in order to ask the user if they want to do something that has an effect on the underlying linux OS or is otherwise outside the bounds of normal mojo type behavior |
| 21:43.02 | destinal | this service talks to a headless app that describes the action and prompts for ok / cancel etc |
| 21:43.43 | Zuchmir2 | a service = native C prog? |
| 21:43.47 | destinal | then returns confirm / deny to the calling service which then knows whether the user wants to do something (rather than just some mojo app wanting it to do something) |
| 21:44.44 | destinal | Zuchmir2: it could be C or Java. Since palm hasn't yet released their adapter source, Java is much easier |
| 21:45.08 | destinal | (or rather a working / complete version of their adapter C source) |
| 21:45.33 | Zuchmir2 | i can imagine using the framework i've used in terminal (api.c) we could call something like: showAlertDialog() |
| 21:46.06 | destinal | Zuchmir2: not a browser plugin |
| 21:46.23 | destinal | I'm talking about system services |
| 21:46.35 | Zuchmir2 | you have a browser plugin in a headless app, which popsup |
| 21:46.39 | destinal | the kind that communicate via the lunaservice model over dbus |
| 21:47.11 | destinal | Zuchmir2: or you can just have a headless app subscribing to a system service |
| 21:47.20 | Zuchmir2 | the dbus thingie is beyond me for the moment |
| 21:48.55 | destinal | browser plugins are not usually the right tool for running native code in webos IMO. I default to services unless there's a really good reason for the code to be in a plugin |
| 21:49.19 | destinal | (such as was the case in terminal, we wanted direct graphics support) |
| 21:49.20 | Zuchmir2 | agreed |
| 21:49.54 | Zuchmir2 | but somehow the info has to make it back to the browser |
| 21:50.11 | Zuchmir2 | info/prompt |
| 21:50.30 | destinal | yeah, you should look into the system service api |
| 21:50.49 | destinal | it's how mojo apps generally interact with just about anything low-level |
| 21:51.27 | destinal | http://developer.palm.com/index.php?view=article&id=1538 |
| 21:51.30 | Zuchmir2 | but there mojo calls low-level, u want to do the reverse, u want low level to buble-up to the mojo |
| 21:51.59 | destinal | Zuchmir2: that's what subscription is for |
| 21:52.29 | destinal | when the mojo app starts up, it says, I want to hear events for anything like XYZ. then it can go to sleep and just handle those messages when they come in |
| 21:53.17 | Zuchmir2 | ok, got it |
| 21:59.23 | *** part/#webos-internals quotemstr (n=danc@64.61.107.66) |
| 22:04.05 | geist | PuffTheMagic: hmm? |
| 22:04.29 | *** join/#webos-internals destinal (n=eduprey@65.90.132.114) |
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| 22:10.41 | PuffTheMagic | geist: destinal said you had some tool on your website that lets you boot new kernels or something |
| 22:11.38 | PuffTheMagic | geist: is the the url to your website |
| 22:14.07 | rwhitby | Ah,the tech blogs have finally realised about the Pre privacy issues I've been talking about here for the last month ... |
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| 22:31.55 | rwhitby | Decimation: you should be able to commit to gitorious now. sorry for the delay. thanks for updating the patch. |
| 22:34.07 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: if i send you my ssh key now can you get me set up on the new git server |
| 22:34.18 | PuffTheMagic | and then either make me a repo or set me up to make repos |
| 22:34.34 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: absolutely |
| 22:34.51 | Templarian | Who ever did the twitter update for precentral you didn't copy the entire link. |
| 22:35.01 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: you got my request for keys email a couple of days ago? |
| 22:35.08 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i saw that |
| 22:35.10 | PuffTheMagic | been lazy ;) |
| 22:36.32 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: sent |
| 22:36.49 | czarphanguye | rwhitby: your twitter link re; on-screen keyboard is broken ;-/ |
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| 22:39.19 | rwhitby | Templarian, czarphanguye: fixed |
| 22:39.43 | rwhitby | need to work out how to shorten links easily in adium twitter interface |
| 22:39.46 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: let me know when its ready |
| 22:39.50 | Rick_Work | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/On_Screen_Keyboard |
| 22:39.52 | czarphanguye | ty, ah.. that looks pretty neat |
| 22:39.59 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: 'kernel.git' ? |
| 22:40.27 | PuffTheMagic | yup :D |
| 22:40.46 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: virtual username 'PuffTheMagic' ? or something else? |
| 22:40.53 | PuffTheMagic | yeah thats fine |
| 22:42.55 | geist | PuffTheMagic: nope, no such tool |
| 22:43.23 | PuffTheMagic | has a feeling geist will say no to anything i ask now |
| 22:43.36 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: let me know when you've pushed the initial repo contents, and I'll fix the hooks afterwards for CIA reporting |
| 22:43.40 | czarphanguye | Mmm.. Patch should be found in /opt/src.. am I missing something? I don't see any /opt/src |
| 22:43.50 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: dont worry about cia on this repo |
| 22:44.05 | PuffTheMagic | merging kernel code will spam the hell out of this channel |
| 22:44.20 | geist | PuffTheMagic: I just dont have it |
| 22:44.28 | geist | not sure where destinal came up with that |
| 22:44.49 | PuffTheMagic | geist: well do you have a website? he saw something on it |
| 22:44.58 | geist | tkgeisel.com |
| 22:45.11 | PuffTheMagic | thanks |
| 22:45.53 | PuffTheMagic | geist: are you guys close to getting upstream with your kernel support, or is that something we shouldnt expect before years end |
| 22:47.16 | geist | what do you mean? |
| 22:48.27 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: I don't think they need to push things upstream as much as migrate to the new kernel and new omap tree |
| 22:48.52 | PuffTheMagic | you said palm and the oss community had 2 parallel branches of omap3 devel going on, and you allueded to palm/you tring to switch to the upstream code |
| 22:48.57 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: yes that is what i mean |
| 22:49.05 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 22:49.10 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: im not seeing it on gitweb |
| 22:49.18 | PuffTheMagic | is the repo there? |
| 22:49.19 | geist | we're working on it |
| 22:49.34 | PuffTheMagic | geist: right so is that something we might expect by years end? |
| 22:49.38 | PuffTheMagic | or is that a pipe dream |
| 22:49.45 | geist | dunno |
| 22:49.51 | geist | why do you care? |
| 22:50.01 | geist | what are you looking for specifically? |
| 22:52.26 | PuffTheMagic | geist: just not being limited to palms kernel |
| 22:52.46 | PuffTheMagic | and i was curious where getting upstream was on their priority list |
| 22:53.03 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: you're not limited to their kernel, you can make your own from the new omap stuff |
| 22:53.20 | geist | yeah, us rebasing on something new != getting stuff upstream |
| 22:53.27 | geist | the latter is a far far harder problem to solve |
| 22:54.40 | PuffTheMagic | forget it... |
| 22:55.04 | geist | of course it's in our best interest to get stuff pushed upstream |
| 22:55.06 | destinal | I think the closed marvell driver can be replaced by the newish open one.. I think there were a couple other binary kernel modules |
| 22:55.12 | geist | less baggage to drag along |
| 22:55.40 | geist | but it's no simple task, especially where we may have made changes to ship the product that isn't really okay with the larger community |
| 22:55.59 | PuffTheMagic | destinal: yes i know i ran run my own kernel i just didnt know how much of the palm hardware is supported upstream yet i didnt look into it |
| 22:56.05 | destinal | wiki says exmap.ko and bridgedriver.ko are binary only in the current joplin-3430 |
| 22:56.34 | destinal | besides the marvell which like I said I think there's an open replacement now |
| 22:56.39 | destinal | but I haven't checked any of this myself |
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| 23:00.14 | PuffTheMagic | geist: i was just asking about the upstream stuff cause 1) i dont get why palm still does not have an open git repo for their kernel work and 2) if you guys are close to releasing a newer kernel i might not waste my time on it |
| 23:00.33 | PuffTheMagic | but since neither seem like they are gonna happen any time soon.... |
| 23:00.49 | destinal | PuffTheMagic: would you like fries with that? :P |
| 23:02.00 | PuffTheMagic | yes please, curly fries |
| 23:03.07 | destinal | Palm obviously has their own priorities and improving and shipping products is a bit higher on that priority list -- I think "when it's done" is totally reasonable for the rebasing./ |
| 23:04.01 | destinal | Again, nothing (except maybe lack of a couple of drivers) prevents us from doing our own thing with newer kernels |
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| 23:05.34 | kesne_ | Can somebody help me apply patches? |
| 23:05.46 | egaudet | where does ctrl+shift+l log the html? |
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| 23:10.49 | kesne_ | Can somebody help me apply patches on my pre? |
| 23:10.56 | gkatsev | installs onscreen keyboard |
| 23:11.22 | czarphanguye | also installs onscreen keyboard, used kpkill lunarsysmgr.. don't seen anything. maybe a full reboot? |
| 23:11.25 | PuffTheMagic | geist: sorry for being a dick... |
| 23:11.28 | czarphanguye | kesne_: what type of help? |
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| 23:19.00 | PuffTheMagic | kesne_: look at the patch and see what directory the files are in that the patch applies to and cd to that directory, then count the number of directories are in the path of the patch, then to 'patch -pN < /path/to/patch' where N is the number of directories you counted |
| 23:19.14 | mrjcarter | I'm having trouble creating a clone of the modification repo http://webos.pastebin.com/d484d34fe |
| 23:19.41 | PuffTheMagic | mrjcarter: dont clone it, create an empty repo and add it as a remote |
| 23:20.56 | mrjcarter | is there a guide in the wiki with details on how to do that? currently I'm just trying to run the quilt-bootstrap script |
| 23:21.18 | PuffTheMagic | mkdir pre-modifications; cd pre-modifications; git init; git remote add webosinternals-modifications <giturl>; git fetch webosinternals-modifications |
| 23:22.22 | PuffTheMagic | git checkout mods webosinternals-modifications/HEAD |
| 23:22.28 | PuffTheMagic | git checkout -b mods webosinternals-modifications/HEAD |
| 23:22.42 | PuffTheMagic | forget the 2 commands up |
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| 23:22.47 | PuffTheMagic | that was a type-o |
| 23:23.24 | mrjcarter | the directory "pre-modifications" should be where? in /opt/src ? |
| 23:25.33 | PuffTheMagic | mrjcarter: is this on the pre or on your desktop? |
| 23:25.44 | mrjcarter | desktop |
| 23:25.55 | PuffTheMagic | then it can be where ever you want |
| 23:26.11 | PuffTheMagic | well it should be able to go where ever you want |
| 23:26.12 | czarphanguye | Anyone using the onscreen keyboard? Does it only load when you slide out the real keyboard? |
| 23:26.23 | PuffTheMagic | but i know nothing about any of the automated scripts |
| 23:26.32 | PuffTheMagic | i know git and patch |
| 23:26.41 | PuffTheMagic | but i dont know what the scripts are doing |
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| 23:26.53 | mrjcarter | ok thanks, I'll look into iit more |
| 23:27.18 | mrjcarter | czarphanguye, I believe you have to have the cursor in a text field then you tap the gesture area |
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| 23:29.22 | mrjcarter | PuffTheMagic, maybe im not entering the the git url correctly, but when I run "get fetc webosinternals-modifications" I get fatal: 'gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git' does not appear to be a git repository |
| 23:29.24 | mrjcarter | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly |
| 23:29.41 | PuffTheMagic | what url are you using? |
| 23:30.14 | mrjcarter | this is the command I entered: git remote add webosinternals-modifications |
| 23:30.16 | mrjcarter | git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git |
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| 23:31.39 | mrjcarter | btw I think I misunderstood you question early, I am actually on my pre. I thought you meant using the actual webos terminal app on my pre |
| 23:31.49 | czarphanguye | mrjcarter: Thanks.. it helps when you know how to access it ;-) much better |
| 23:31.55 | PuffTheMagic | you better not listen to me at all then |
| 23:32.06 | mrjcarter | I didn't put it just anywhere though |
| 23:32.16 | mrjcarter | i put it in /opt/src |
| 23:32.20 | mrjcarter | (got that from the wiki) |
| 23:32.45 | mrjcarter | czarphanguye, no prob |
| 23:32.55 | mrjcarter | now if I can only get mine to work |
| 23:34.03 | czarphanguye | brb mrjcarter, then if you need some help I'll be around ;-) |
| 23:34.12 | mrjcarter | thanks |
| 23:34.53 | mrjcarter | PuffTheMagic, can you confirm that "git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git" is the correct url? |
| 23:35.34 | PuffTheMagic | looks right... but if you look on gitorious.com/webos-internals it will tell you for sure |
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| 23:38.34 | gkatsev | hm... i getting "fatal: Unable to look up gitorious.org (port 9418) (Temporary failure in name resolution)" when trying to git pull mods |
| 23:38.59 | mrjcarter | Ok now I'm getting "fatal: unable to connect a socket (Connection timed out) |
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| 23:42.36 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: there is no repo - you get to push it to create it |
| 23:43.22 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: that would create the initial branch... but usually it shows in gitweb regardless if its been seeded or not |
| 23:43.26 | PuffTheMagic | what is the push url? |
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| 23:44.26 | rwhitby | git@webos-internals.org:kernel.git |
| 23:44.51 | PuffTheMagic | k |
| 23:44.52 | PuffTheMagic | thanks |
| 23:45.04 | rwhitby | hmm - maybe git@git.webos-internals.org:kernel.git in case we want to move it to a different host from the wiki later |
| 23:45.36 | PuffTheMagic | i know how to edit a .git/config |
| 23:45.39 | PuffTheMagic | so it dont matter |
| 23:45.42 | PuffTheMagic | if it changes it changes |
| 23:46.13 | rwhitby | ok, the instructions will say git.webos-internals.org for everything |
| 23:46.22 | PuffTheMagic | k |
| 23:46.34 | rwhitby | (since that's the gitweb address) |
| 23:47.26 | PuffTheMagic | ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied |
| 23:47.41 | gkatsev | halp? |
| 23:49.06 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: sorry, wait 1 |
| 23:50.08 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: try now |
| 23:50.56 | PuffTheMagic | all good now |
| 23:51.03 | PuffTheMagic | but im a little confused |
| 23:51.10 | PuffTheMagic | shouldnt the url need ssh:// prefix |
| 23:51.15 | PuffTheMagic | when i add that i get an error |
| 23:51.20 | PuffTheMagic | but using no prefix works |
| 23:51.22 | rwhitby | it defaults to that when you say foo@ |
| 23:51.25 | PuffTheMagic | never seen anyhthing like that before |
| 23:51.32 | PuffTheMagic | but why would it fail if i included it |
| 23:51.54 | rwhitby | it fails for ssh://git@... ? |
| 23:52.08 | PuffTheMagic | yup |
| 23:52.20 | PuffTheMagic | $ git push origin master |
| 23:52.20 | PuffTheMagic | ssh: Could not resolve hostname : Name or service not known |
| 23:53.07 | PuffTheMagic | me waits while uploading kernel repo at 120KB/s |
| 23:53.09 | rwhitby | note that you don't have a user account there, only 'git' does. normal gitosis setup |
| 23:53.22 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i still used git@ |
| 23:53.34 | PuffTheMagic | that is not much different that how gitorious works |
| 23:53.37 | PuffTheMagic | and that uses ssh:// |
| 23:54.11 | PuffTheMagic | wooth 20/250mb pushed |
| 23:54.22 | PuffTheMagic | s/wooth/woot |
| 23:54.53 | mrjcarter | root@castle:/opt/src/modifications# git clone git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git results in this error: |
| 23:54.55 | mrjcarter | Initialized empty Git repository in /opt/src/modifications/modifications/.git/ |
| 23:54.56 | mrjcarter | fatal: Unable to look up gitorious.org (port 9418) (Temporary failure in name resolution) |
| 23:55.08 | mrjcarter | any ideas? |
| 23:55.50 | rwhitby | mrjcarter: looks like network problems or firewall issues at your end |
| 23:56.16 | rwhitby | mrjcarter: can you ping gitorious.org from the Pre? |
| 23:58.00 | mrjcarter | I'm getting |
| 23:58.03 | mrjcarter | ping: bad address |
| 23:58.19 | mrjcarter | your asking from within putty correct? |
