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| 14:40.03 | jlp_znc | jfindlay: someone was talking about changing to a miles travelled tax, but that will really piss people off. :D |
| 14:42.34 | jlp_znc | I mean, how would they capture that info in states that don't have inspections? force you to enter your odometer reading at the pump? |
| 14:42.58 | spangborn | Just turn on the covid vaccine tracker |
| 14:43.06 | spangborn | then you can isolate the miles to ones in Utah |
| 14:45.24 | spangborn | Ever Given is almost out of the Suez Canal, heh |
| 14:45.30 | jlp_znc | woot! |
| 14:45.51 | jlp_znc | I heard they got the stern unstuck yesterday. sounds like they made great progress over night. |
| 14:45.56 | spangborn | It got stuck again |
| 14:45.58 | spangborn | and then unstuck again |
| 14:50.56 | spangborn | Oh maybe not, it's almost to navigational water in the middle |
| 14:51.02 | spangborn | I didn't zoom out far enough |
| 14:52.28 | jlp_znc | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/world/suez-canal-ship.html |
| 14:57.58 | jlp_znc | https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:5630138/zoom:12 |
| 15:03.41 | jlp_znc | AIS is like ADS-B for ships |
| 15:05.15 | spangborn | Yep, pretty cool stuff |
| 15:05.39 | spangborn | Looks like it uses two different VHF frequencies, too |
| 15:06.54 | spangborn | love to have "Dust" as weather |
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| 17:25.20 | shalkie | Having an electric car with a "range extender", or small motorcycle engine acting like a generator when the batteries hit a certain level, I get the joy of paying road tax as an electric car and when I fill the wimpy 2ish gallon tank. |
| 17:25.45 | shalkie | Oregon at one point expiremnted with a little gps based box would track mileage. |
| 17:28.53 | shalkie | https://www.terrapass.com/blog/oregons-successful-mileage-tax-experiment |
| 17:51.31 | th3ph3d | I think a miles-traveled tax could be a reasonable replacement tax. Have it paid as part of the yearly re-registration. |
| 18:02.23 | romanovic | I could see it from the other side too. I think a miles-travelled tax makes about as much sense as a bytes-downloaded internet service charge. bytes aren't finite, bandwidth is. Miles also aren't finite, and probably have negligible impact on a road. Charges using these metrics are an undesirable monetisation strategy |
| 18:03.05 | th3ph3d | full-electric vehicles pay no gas tax, but cause just as much wear on the roads. |
| 18:04.40 | romanovic | passenger vehicle wear on roads is probably negligible compared to weathering and the sum total of all indirect usages of the road (consumption of all products and services that make use of the roads on my behalf). All of those road impacts will occur even if an individual does not drive at all |
| 18:05.26 | th3ph3d | The whole point of a gas tax (supposedly) is to pay for roads and road-like infrastructure. |
| 18:07.00 | romanovic | i agree it no longer works - before electric vehicles, gas and miles driven were proportional, and neither corresponds to actual infrastructure needs |
| 18:07.34 | th3ph3d | So if not a use/mileage tax, what other options are there? |
| 18:16.35 | romanovic | not sure I actually have a desirable alternative to propose. maybe still a use tax, where usage metrics include indirect usage. |
| 18:20.55 | jlp_znc | I think it's an infrastructure, just like schools, fire/police services, etc. and should be paid by taxes accordingly. those who argue "I never drive" are still taking advantage of the nation-wide road network allowing other people to not live in their laps. |
| 18:21.34 | jlp_znc | and goods and services to exist. even if you never drive, when your sink clogs up and the plumber has to come, HE has to drive on the road and you directly benefit from that. |
| 18:22.15 | spangborn | well that's why you tax the plumber who is driving |
| 18:22.23 | jlp_znc | of course, that will never happen because it isn't easy to measure and people will vote against those who double their property taxes. |
| 18:22.52 | jlp_znc | spangborn: and have her pass the extra costs on to you, the consumer? sure, but what a pain of accounting. |
| 18:23.41 | spangborn | They're the one driving, better than to pass it onto someone directly who isn't |
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| 19:16.56 | jlp_znc | ah, but the same argument applies to e.g. fire departments. why should I pay when I didn't have a fire? |
| 19:17.22 | jlp_znc | that way lies anarchy (and libertarianism) |
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