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| 15:42.42 | utahcon | Ah Monday, almost as bad on Tuesday |
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| 16:24.37 | spangborn | QSO's youtah |
| 16:26.21 | jsmith | He's busy... |
| 16:27.05 | spangborn | I wouldn't call imgur "busy" |
| 16:44.50 | jima | shalkie: you did catch that rich county is a "frontier county" with lower than 6/sqmi population density (2.4/sqmi, per wikipedia), and thus is low until they pass 14 cases per 14 days, right? |
| 16:45.47 | jima | with a county population of ~2500, 14 cases in 2 weeks would seem...really bad. |
| 16:47.46 | jima | with 6' distancing in bars only "strongly encouraged" for low, and no mandate for masks, one busy night at the bar 2 weeks ago could spike them out of low. (granted, i don't know how many bars are in rich county.) |
| 16:49.14 | spangborn | Just throw a dance party |
| 16:49.16 | spangborn | That'll fix it |
| 16:49.24 | jima | spangborn: another one? |
| 16:49.28 | spangborn | Sure, why not |
| 16:49.34 | jima | i mean, i forget where the three were |
| 16:50.19 | spangborn | Just relocate the entirety of Provo to Rich County |
| 16:50.56 | jima | wow, you hate rich county that much? |
| 16:51.03 | jima | ;-) |
| 16:51.16 | jima | young/dumb, that was the name of the party organizing company |
| 16:51.20 | jima | super appropriate |
| 16:51.25 | spangborn | One of them, yeah |
| 16:51.41 | spangborn | The other one is Tribe Utah/Utah Tonight |
| 17:05.35 | youtah | apparently they paramedics couldn't get to the lady with the head wound |
| 17:05.50 | youtah | because when people found out the police were coming, a car rammed another car |
| 17:06.05 | youtah | and car A ended up on top of the car B |
| 17:06.09 | youtah | which blocked the road |
| 17:06.12 | jima | oh no |
| 17:06.22 | youtah | So they called Life Flight |
| 17:06.36 | youtah | and then by the time Life Flight was almost there, the ambulance was able to get in |
| 17:06.39 | youtah | so it turned around |
| 17:06.41 | jima | ugh |
| 17:07.11 | jima | i think i missed some context on this story |
| 17:07.15 | youtah | https://twitter.com/SLCScanner/status/1323092431621877760 |
| 17:07.50 | youtah | jima some 20's something party organizers planned a huge party in Utah County at an unknown location |
| 17:07.59 | jima | oh ffs |
| 17:08.07 | youtah | They said they wouldn't release the location until the day of |
| 17:08.20 | youtah | Huge stageline with DJ's and professional sound |
| 17:08.28 | youtah | no special event permit |
| 17:08.38 | youtah | then they started to get heat so they announced that it had been cancelled |
| 17:08.41 | jima | seems like a lot of people could be held liable |
| 17:08.46 | youtah | when secretly they continued with the plans |
| 17:09.51 | youtah | So then, Day of, the announced it |
| 17:09.53 | youtah | and held it anyway |
| 17:11.02 | jima | imo, they should be locked up |
| 17:11.20 | jima | seems like a callous disregard for public health |
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| 18:05.23 | fedorafan | is utah full marmonic |
| 18:07.15 | programmerq | fedorafan: this may answer your question? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Utah#Religion |
| 18:07.48 | fedorafan | sure but I thought you can act like wikipedia yourself so you are atheist right |
| 18:09.20 | fedorafan | seems so |
| 18:09.22 | fedorafan | good luck im out |
| 18:09.26 | *** part/#utah fedorafan (~fedorafan@unaffiliated/fedorafan) |
| 18:14.18 | jima | weird flex |
| 18:15.45 | jlp_znc | that was odd |
| 18:16.17 | programmerq | it's been a while (since I've noticed, anyway) that someone has joined and started asking about mormonism right out the gate. |
| 18:17.28 | jlp_znc | well, he was asking about mArmonism, so... does that count? |
| 18:17.50 | programmerq | I'll let it slide |
| 18:17.59 | jlp_znc | I was trying to figure out if he mis-typed harmonic or moronic (in regards to the earlier conversation about utah county) |
| 18:20.18 | jima | well it's harmonic mormonism, right? |
| 18:21.01 | jima | and yes, i recall that happening before, but i haven't been active on irc for months so i'm not really sure how long it's been |
| 18:22.22 | programmerq | virtual school. My oldest has trouble staying on task, so I set up a VNC server on his machine. I just have it set to view-only mode. It's actually been very helpful. He's a lot less likely to not do his work now. |
| 18:39.06 | jima | nice. |
| 18:52.27 | jlp_znc | if I had tried that with my son he would have spun up a virtual machine and pointed the vnc server at it, then continued to do whatever on the main system. |
| 19:03.57 | programmerq | my kid doesn't have superuser privileges on his system yet. |
| 19:04.14 | programmerq | I've told him he can have them once he can install his own OS. He hasn't been interested in taking me up on that so far. |
| 19:27.46 | jima | youtah: hey, got a ham-my series of questions for you when you have a moment |
| 19:53.36 | youtah | ok |
| 19:53.38 | youtah | fire away |
| 19:54.59 | spangborn | What's the best way to cook a ham |
| 19:55.05 | spangborn | the microwave |
| 19:55.08 | spangborn | shows himself out |
| 20:14.46 | jima | youtah: i suspect that a nearby ham might be generating a lot of noise on 2.4ghz, including disrupting a medical device. is there a normal way to inquire if someone's doing something in that band? |
| 20:46.51 | jsmith | jima: 2.4GHz is wifi/bluetooth/lots of other random junk |
| 20:50.31 | jima | jsmith: ...yes. i am aware of that fact. |
| 21:04.15 | spangborn | jima: what makes you suspect that? |
| 21:05.32 | jima | the side of my house where we have these problems, coupled with where there's a decent-size antenna in the guy's backyard |
| 21:08.33 | spangborn | You could probably use some sort of rf spectrum analyzer to see that, but that hardware isn't exactly cheap |
| 21:08.56 | spangborn | Might be worth just talking to the neighbor to see if he's seeing the same issue |
| 21:12.04 | jlp_znc | generally, the guys who like playing with HF (with the big antennas) don't usually mess around on the 12cm band. there are exceptions, of course. |
| 21:14.55 | jlp_znc | does the "decent-size" antenna look like it is for microwave? (dish or yagi) is there any vivent wifi in your area (or other microwave wisp)? |
| 21:20.28 | jima | looks like mostly omnidirectional...sec |
| 21:21.38 | jlp_znc | but I have to agree with spangborn... knocking on his door and saying something like "hey, are you a ham?" might be a good ice breaker. |
| 21:22.36 | jima | well, i know he is, i'm pretty good at osint :-P |
| 21:23.08 | jima | https://jima.us/20201102.03.jpg 2019 https://jima.us/20201102.02.jpg 2015 |
| 21:23.33 | jima | gsv grabs since i try not to take photos of people's houses |
| 21:26.15 | jlp_znc | that little box at rooftop height could be a wifi AP... is it pointed at your house? |
| 21:26.24 | jima | alternatively, anyone got a spectrum analyzer i could borrow? ;-) |
| 21:26.47 | jima | that box looks to be generally pointed toward his house, but not mine |
| 21:27.06 | jlp_znc | according to https://d24z4d3zypmncx.cloudfront.net/KnowledgeBaseFiles/cjrhnq0540vsd0189azy13uh8/RFI-Ham.pdf, 2.4GHz doesn't usually get any noise from ham equipment unless it's right on 2.4 GHz itself. |
| 21:27.32 | jima | thanks |
| 21:28.50 | jlp_znc | so he could be doing AREDN or something like that on 2.4 GHz, and that could be at a higher than typical power level and slightly out of the public wifi band. |
| 21:29.34 | jlp_znc | is the interference constant? or periodic (certain hours of the day)? |
| 21:29.52 | jima | my bigger concern is the medical device, which is bluetooth, but i don't know crap about the frequencies involved :-( |
| 21:30.05 | jima | my wife can't even make a call using bluetooth in this room |
| 21:30.21 | jlp_znc | all the time? |
| 21:30.37 | jlp_znc | a leaky microwave can cause problems, but that wouldn't be constant. |
| 21:31.05 | jima | fairly constant during business hours, she doesn't really spend time in here other than that |
| 21:31.51 | jlp_znc | what kind of medical device is it? you sure it's bluetooth? you could experiment with some shielding (paper the outside wall with tin foil and ground it) |
| 21:31.52 | jima | i don't think a leaky microwave would account for it, too regular |
| 21:32.25 | jlp_znc | have you tried other devices (bluetooth speaker) to see if they are also affected? |
| 21:32.36 | jima | continuous glucose monitor, and it's talking to her phone primarily, so yes, definitely bluetooth for that part. |
| 21:33.01 | jima | and like i said, also bluetooth headset |
| 21:33.50 | jima | for headsets we've adapted to using wired in here, but that doesn't really help the cgm |
| 21:35.30 | jlp_znc | yeah, that's kind of critical |
| 21:36.09 | jlp_znc | trying to think of anything else that would interfere with BT... |
| 21:39.56 | shalkie | I'm stil unsure what Marmonic is... |
| 21:40.24 | jlp_znc | I think we agreed that it meant the author of the message was a moron. |
| 21:41.17 | jlp_znc | so, jima, I can't think of anything other than if he's doing AREDN that would be likely to interfere, and even that shouldn't be significant because of the way wifi/BT/etc. use spread-spectrum. |
| 21:41.50 | jlp_znc | and if it's continuous, it's unlikely to be related to his typical ham gear anyway (unless he's running a busy repeater at his house). |
| 21:42.53 | jlp_znc | could be a noisy power supply or something like that, but your best bet would be to go talk to him. open the conversation with something like "hey, I'm having some weird interference with my wife's glucose monitor... can you maybe help me figure out where it is coming from?" |
| 21:43.02 | *** join/#utah phemale (phemale@2601:681:4900:e751:fcd2:e58e:98f8:233e) |
| 21:45.34 | jlp_znc | I'd also check the docs for her CGM and see if they say anything about RF interference. usually, that type of gear is pretty solid. |
| 21:46.16 | phemale | I figured I'd come pop in instead of having jima ask me all the questions. |
| 21:49.28 | phemale | I read it all ages ago, but it isn't just this device. 2 different CGM's and 1 pump. |
| 21:50.27 | phemale | every phone, every headset, every device that uses BT or 2.4ghz wifi |
| 21:50.51 | jlp_znc | and it's continuous, right? |
| 21:51.38 | jlp_znc | so near as I can tell, unless he's doing AREDN or something similar on 2.4 GHz, it is unlikely that his typical HF, VHF, or UHF ham gear would be causing a problem. |
| 21:52.14 | jlp_znc | it is possible, though, that he has a flakey power supply that could be generating some interference. it would have to be pretty beefy, though. |
| 21:52.37 | phemale | for my BT headset yes - multiple phones, multiple headsets and nobody can hear anything I say if I am in the office (super annoying) in other parts of the house it isn't AS BAD, but still bad |
| 21:52.41 | phemale | worse some days |
| 21:53.07 | phemale | Yeah, we have been troubleshooting this for a few years now. |
| 21:53.08 | jlp_znc | have you checked your house for any interference sources that might be present? like an alarm system, intercom, ethernet over power lines, etc. |
| 21:53.51 | jima | definitely no alarm/intercom/power line ethernet in our house |
| 21:53.57 | phemale | Happened before we had an alarm system- no intercom and we we aren't doing ethernet over power |
| 21:54.16 | jima | derp, that kind of alarm angle |
| 21:54.26 | jlp_znc | I'd try to identify a simple set of equipment that demonstrates the problem (like a cell phone connected to a BT speaker), so you can observe it in a continuous way. |
| 21:54.35 | jima | i was on the "radiated rf from wires" mindset |
| 21:54.52 | jlp_znc | then experiment with shielding the equipment to see if you can identify a particular direction that is worse or better. |
| 21:54.58 | phemale | it plays music fine- thats the problem |
| 21:55.22 | phemale | it is only on phone calls- and I can hear it fine- they can't hear me |
| 21:56.18 | jlp_znc | okay, that's useful data. the BT headset would have a lot less power than the phone (and the CGM is probably pretty low power, too... is the battery for that integrated with the sensor cartridge? or do you charge it separately?) |
| 21:56.43 | phemale | I have had both types of CGM. |
| 21:57.11 | phemale | my last one was a charged on it's own - this one is intergrated battery |
| 21:57.35 | jlp_znc | ok, so it's unlikely to be low battery causing low signal strength. |
| 21:57.47 | phemale | this has been driving me off the wall for ever I have been troubleshooting this for ages |
| 21:58.13 | jlp_znc | I think trying some directional shielding would be a useful experiment. |
| 21:58.13 | phemale | nope, this is a brand new one lasts about 3-4 months and it is like 10? days in |
| 21:59.09 | jlp_znc | anything on that side of your house? solar panel grid tie controller, smart power or gas meter? |
| 21:59.45 | jima | ooooh, that's an interesting angle |
| 22:00.15 | jlp_znc | antenna in the attic with an amplifier on it? |
| 22:00.18 | jlp_znc | (TV) |
| 22:00.49 | phemale | nothing smart- but I think the gas meter does have some sort of wireless thing on it. |
| 22:00.59 | phemale | no amp for TV |
| 22:01.09 | jima | i think my wife just called me dumb :-\ |
| 22:01.12 | jlp_znc | :D |
| 22:01.20 | phemale | LOL |
| 22:01.46 | jlp_znc | anyone else got any ideas? |
| 22:01.59 | phemale | the gas meter WE have nothing on it, but the gas company does have a reporting thing |
| 22:02.12 | jlp_znc | if the gas meter is on that side of the house, maybe try shielding IT and see if the problem goes away (or lessens) |
| 22:02.24 | phemale | it is right on the other side of the wall in here |
| 22:02.46 | jlp_znc | go wrap some tinfoil around it. we'll wait. :D |
| 22:02.58 | phemale | looks at jima |
| 22:02.59 | phemale | ;) |
| 22:03.02 | jima | i don't think that'd work on the back side of it |
| 22:03.13 | phemale | start wallpapering |
| 22:03.23 | jlp_znc | when your neighbor comes out and says "um, what are ya doin' there, buddy?" you can smile and wave. |
| 22:03.33 | jima | that would certainly alter the aesthetic in here |
| 22:03.36 | phemale | WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY TALK TO US? |
| 22:03.39 | phemale | oopps |
| 22:03.45 | jlp_znc | he he |
| 22:03.49 | jima | jlp_znc: no, the ham isn't a neighbor of ours |
| 22:04.08 | jima | not on our street, for that matter |
| 22:04.24 | jlp_znc | that makes his gear even less likely to be the culprit. |
| 22:04.31 | jima | which is part of why i'm...hesistent to walk up to his door with a weird inquiry :-| |
| 22:05.29 | jlp_znc | still, he might have the equipment to find the problem, or know someone who has it. hams are generally pretty nice folks. |
| 22:06.22 | phemale | true! |
| 22:06.44 | phemale | I really need my Uncle right now- to bad he is an ass |
| 22:06.56 | jima | ha, or mine, but same problem |
| 22:07.17 | jima | well, i'm not sure he's really an ass, but my mom kind of burned that bridge |
| 22:07.34 | jima | he barely talked to me at the funeral |
| 22:08.12 | phemale | mine used to own a company doing repair on all sorts of radio equipment- now does the radio's and tech for massive ships |
| 22:09.15 | jlp_znc | you guys in Utah? if so, I might know someone with equipment. |
| 22:09.38 | jima | err, yes |
| 22:09.52 | phemale | sadly yes |
| 22:10.04 | jima | i tend to forget there are a non-trivial number of people who aren't in utah in here |
| 22:11.35 | jlp_znc | I can ask my club if anyone has any signal monitoring gear that would work at 2.4 GHz. if my club doesn't have anyone, I bet someone knows someone who does. |
| 22:11.41 | th3ph3d | http://utmesh.com/ has a partial list of people running AREDN in the area. |
| 22:12.51 | jlp_znc | https://www.securityweek.com/smart-meters-interfering-home-electronics |
| 22:15.41 | jima | thanks jlp! |
| 22:16.31 | phemale | if that is the cause they really are not going to like me. |
| 22:17.32 | jlp_znc | it could be a malfunctioning meter and they might be really happy you let them know. |
| 22:18.15 | jlp_znc | dominon energy's FAQ says that their meters are only supposed to be active about 4.5% of the day, but that seems to be for power meters... not gas. |
| 22:18.47 | jlp_znc | that security week article is from 2011, so it's possible that you have an old meter, too, and an upgrade would fix the problem. |
| 22:18.56 | phemale | the power one is over there too, but I don't know for sure if that one has any wireless |
| 22:19.37 | phemale | the gas I KNOW has one |
| 22:20.10 | jlp_znc | I think your best bet is to try some shielding to isolate it and see what effect that has. |
| 22:21.34 | jlp_znc | https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-Staging/Smart-meter-interference-with-Wi-Fi/td-p/1792317 |
| 22:21.52 | jlp_znc | this guy was having problems with wifi... changed wifi channels and the problem went away. not a solution for bluetooth, though. |
| 22:22.36 | jima | that's a good and not necessarily intuitive solution for wifi, yeah |
| 22:23.05 | jima | ...and a really good point, maybe (we have some issues with 2.4ghz wifi, but i chalked it up to channel saturation) |
| 22:24.33 | jlp_znc | PG&E FAQ: https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/how-the-system-works/understanding-radio-frequency/frequently-asked-questions/frequently-asked-questions.page |
| 22:24.57 | jlp_znc | they also say that their gear is transmitting only about 45s/day (20ms at a time) |
| 22:25.25 | jlp_znc | still could be enough to disrupt the connection... and just often enough to keep it from working :/ |
| 22:25.53 | jlp_znc | I'm curious what you find out if you do some shielding experiments. |
| 22:27.08 | phemale | the sheilding is going to be a pain because the only thing I can reproduce easy is a phone call |
| 22:27.22 | phemale | but we are going to have to |
| 22:30.13 | phemale | it was just an annoying until it started to mess with my CGM- then it made me mad. |
| 22:32.27 | jlp_znc | I can see that. |
| 22:40.12 | jima | i wonder if any SDRs can do 2.4ghz spectrum analyzing? i haven't done crap with surveying since the early wardriving days though |
| 22:41.11 | youtah | Sorry jima .... you asked if you could ask me a question, and then I got pulled away! AHhhhhg! |
| 22:41.26 | youtah | My apologies |
| 22:42.19 | jlp_znc | https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/2-4-ghz/ |
| 22:42.41 | youtah | Yeah, I have a couple of RTL SDR dongles that I use |
| 22:42.44 | youtah | with HACKRF |
| 22:43.11 | youtah | HDSDR is lovely |
| 22:45.24 | youtah | re: CV19 Vaccines: I am curious... https://twitter.com/youtah/status/1323394384583249920 |
| 22:46.32 | jima | youtah: s'ok, jlp offered a lot of good pointers...not sure how many of them will pan out, but they're definitely food for thought |
| 23:20.20 | *** join/#utah chum_ (~chum_@192.225.180.2) |
| 23:25.46 | jima | utahcon: oh thank goodness, that's not just me |
| 23:26.58 | jima | utahcon: indifference to current tech was kind of what got me started with ipv6, but even that is...largely mature, but tragically underdeployed because IPV6 SCARY |
| 23:28.36 | jlp_znc | DoD has told us that our stuff has to support IPv6 by next year some time. :D |
| 23:28.52 | jima | jlp_znc: next year? oh noes |
| 23:29.01 | jima | i've been pushing ipv6 for 18 years :-( |
| 23:29.07 | jlp_znc | yep |
| 23:29.21 | jima | and doing srs ipv6-only in the enterprise for, i dunno, 5+ now |
| 23:29.55 | jima | i've got a workstation here on an ipv6-only vpn to the datacenter even |
| 23:30.10 | youtah | Make IPv4 Great Again! |
| 23:30.11 | youtah | lol |
| 23:30.14 | youtah | hides |
| 23:30.42 | jima | youtah: ipv4 was never great ;-) |
| 23:30.46 | jima | well no |
| 23:30.54 | jima | it was pretty dang nice in like, 2000 |
| 23:30.58 | youtah | lol |
| 23:32.19 | jlp_znc | hmmm, I thought I had my IPv6 set up, but test-ipv6.com says no. oh, maybe because my vpn to work is up? |
| 23:32.23 | youtah | I was behind a car in Lehi that had a DHCPMOD license plate |
| 23:32.31 | youtah | and I was like... uh.... DHCP mode? |
| 23:32.35 | jima | ha |
| 23:32.48 | youtah | and then I realized it said DPCHMOD |
| 23:32.49 | jima | jlp_znc: likely! |
| 23:32.54 | youtah | Depeche Mode |
| 23:32.56 | jima | deep CHMOD? |
| 23:32.57 | jima | oh |
| 23:33.00 | youtah | LOL |
| 23:33.25 | jima | caveat, i was friends with a guy who went by chm0d and later chmawd back in the mid-'90s. |
| 23:35.49 | jlp_znc | I'd take my vpn down to test, but I'm in the middle of some work thing :D |
| 23:36.02 | jima | BORE-ING |
| 23:36.12 | jima | no device on wifi to test? :-P |
| 23:36.26 | jlp_znc | not that I'm sure is configured for IPv6 |
| 23:36.52 | jima | "is configured"...phones? phones generally don't have options for that. :-) |
| 23:37.02 | jima | which is wildly diabolical |
| 23:37.08 | jima | MUHAHAHA |
| 23:37.56 | youtah | How do you guys CHMOD? |
| 23:38.16 | jlp_znc | ~linux |
| 23:38.16 | infobot | Is there a system of Linux for Mobile HTC s630 Instead of Microsoft Windows 6? |
| 23:38.17 | youtah | Do you guys use sticky bits? |
| 23:38.28 | youtah | errr |
| 23:38.30 | jlp_znc | I don't think anyone uses sticky bits any more |
| 23:38.31 | jima | youtah: this is in reference to this, right? https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/dily0/i_know_how_to_chmod_ftw/ |
| 23:38.32 | youtah | let me rephease |
| 23:38.37 | jima | jlp_znc: very rarely |
| 23:38.54 | youtah | lol jima |
| 23:39.19 | youtah | sorry |
| 23:39.20 | jima | honestly i do `chmod --reference` more than actually setting modes |
| 23:39.30 | youtah | trying to do like five things at once |
| 23:39.34 | jima | and `chgrp --reference`, `chcon --reference` etc |
| 23:40.09 | jima | oh and `chown --reference`, duh |
| 23:40.45 | jlp_znc | I like to specify the octal mode setting, myself, although when coaching others I'll often use the ugo+-rwx syntax |
| 23:41.14 | jlp_znc | I'd love to get that guy in an interview. "so, you list CHMOD as one of your skills... tell me a little about that?" |
| 23:42.17 | youtah | ok, back |
| 23:42.25 | jima | yeah, i tend to do octal |
| 23:42.26 | youtah | are you guys more of the character options kind of people |
| 23:42.27 | jlp_znc | "are you fluent in CGI?" |
| 23:42.27 | youtah | chmod =rwx,g+s file |
| 23:42.36 | youtah | or chmod 777 file |
| 23:42.39 | youtah | etc |
| 23:42.47 | youtah | sorry, brb |
| 23:43.43 | youtah | like symbolic mode or numeric? |
| 23:43.46 | jlp_znc | you mean chmod 2777 file? |
| 23:43.48 | youtah | just out of curiosity |
| 23:43.53 | youtah | yeah |
| 23:44.07 | jima | like jlp said, octal |
| 23:44.43 | youtah | me as well |
| 23:45.00 | youtah | I see all of these examples that dont |
| 23:45.07 | youtah | and it makes me wonder if i am the odd ball out |
| 23:45.14 | youtah | 0744 is so much eaier |
| 23:45.18 | youtah | easier |
| 23:45.36 | jlp_znc | just to clarify, yes, you are the odd ball out :D |
| 23:45.41 | youtah | lol |
| 23:45.49 | youtah | it must be getting close to the end of the day |
| 23:45.53 | youtah | just got REALLY busy |
| 23:46.14 | jima | sucks to be you! (and just wait until i get the same :-P ) |
| 23:47.03 | jlp_znc | at least youtah is not wall papering his house with tin foil tomorrow. |
| 23:48.28 | jima | not the whole house, just the home office! |
| 23:48.50 | jima | also youtah probably didn't break bitlocker on his work laptop |
| 23:51.48 | jima | and fixed, whew |
