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| 18:22.54 | jlp_znc | finally settled into the new office. it looks... pretty... but not super functional. |
| 18:23.08 | jlp_znc | The desks are tiny. I think they might even be smaller than our old ones. |
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| 18:24.22 | youtah | they shouldn't have washed your all cotton desk in cold water? |
| 18:27.51 | joshh | what kind of new office? |
| 18:28.31 | jlp_znc | we're in the Canopy building in Lehi now. Just north of Cabellas (not that that helps you much, joshh). |
| 18:28.42 | joshh | i know where the cabelas is |
| 18:29.07 | joshh | i actually rode around through lehi with my brother a couple weekends ago, he was doing some landscape work |
| 18:29.15 | joshh | it looks different these days |
| 18:29.18 | joshh | and that whole area |
| 18:29.37 | jlp_znc | we do have a killer view of the big NSA data center. |
| 18:29.46 | joshh | ya i saw that too, from the highway |
| 18:29.51 | joshh | its... kind of ugly |
| 18:29.54 | jfindlay | north Lehi is that ugly spread of malignant suburban expanse you have to drive through to get somewhere else |
| 18:29.56 | jlp_znc | well, nsa |
| 18:29.57 | joshh | not exactly a beautifully architected campus |
| 18:30.23 | joshh | was saying the nsa dc is ugly, not lehi |
| 18:30.31 | joshh | though im more of a city person myself anyway |
| 18:30.56 | jfindlay | and I'm saying Lehi is ugly, well anywhere suburban in Utah is ugly by design |
| 18:31.01 | joshh | the far flung suburb lifestyle isn't my favorite |
| 18:31.47 | jlp_znc | At least it's further from my house. that's a benefit, right? |
| 18:31.51 | joshh | living in utah is optimizing for house and yard size, or outdoor recreation accessibility |
| 18:32.25 | joshh | i really don't get why anyone would live in one of the "dense |
| 18:32.26 | jfindlay | I'm glad I don't have to walk through parking lots on the way to work anymore that remind me of TS Elliot's "The Wasteland" |
| 18:32.28 | joshh | areas there |
| 18:33.35 | joshh | if you're going to be in utah, why live somewhere without the 7 bedroom house and acre lot with mountain views? |
| 18:34.05 | joshh | though SLC does have some nice semi-urban areas i guess |
| 18:42.40 | jfindlay | I opted for the latter |
| 18:42.49 | jfindlay | but everywhere in Utah is getting expensive |
| 18:44.03 | jfindlay | also, the suburban development style is unsustainable. See for reasoning: https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/ |
| 18:45.51 | joshh | ya |
| 18:46.05 | joshh | i like cities to be cities and the country to be country |
| 18:46.13 | jfindlay | cities do not tax at a rate high enough to cover the cost of roads, pipes, wires, police, fire, etc. |
| 18:47.40 | jfindlay | thus hiding the true cost of cheap-appearing suburban neighborhoods of mcmansions behind state and federal grant money and using the short-term windfall of carpeting new territory with the same stuff to pay for maintenance and upgrades |
| 18:48.04 | jfindlay | for the existing neighborhoods when their bills are due |
| 18:48.54 | joshh | and of course rural areas like that are the ones that need subsidies for broadband and all that |
| 18:50.27 | joshh | utah's issue though is that almost all the growth is outward sprawl |
| 18:50.44 | joshh | but that's almost everywhere too |
| 18:51.07 | joshh | i-15 is getting a lot worse, commutes to slc from the southwest part of sl county take an hour, etc |
| 18:53.36 | jfindlay | SL county has really great rail transit |
| 18:54.16 | jfindlay | even compared to many similar and even larger cities |
| 18:54.21 | jlp_znc | not really |
| 18:54.24 | joshh | it seems viable for getting to downtown once you're on a train that is moving, if you can get to one of the parking lots reasonably |
| 18:54.28 | joshh | but they come every 15 minutes or something |
| 18:54.31 | jlp_znc | it's great if you want to go to/from downtown. |
| 18:54.56 | jfindlay | jlp_znc: where else would you want to go in Utah? :-) |
| 18:55.07 | jlp_znc | pretty much anywhere else :D |
| 18:55.23 | joshh | rush hour trains in the bay area can be every 1-2 minutes when they are all running smoothly |
| 18:55.39 | joshh | but if there's a delay or serious problem there can be extreme havoc too |
| 18:56.14 | joshh | average waits are probably around 5 minutes |
| 18:56.20 | jlp_znc | my experience with light rail in the south bay (san jose -> mountain view) was that the bus was just as fast as the train |
| 18:56.30 | joshh | VTA down there kinda sucks |
| 18:56.34 | jlp_znc | although caltrain was pretty decent... as long as no one walked in front of a train. |
| 18:56.36 | joshh | but it looks very similar to trax |
| 18:56.38 | jfindlay | the busses in Seattle are pretty good |
| 18:56.41 | joshh | caltrain is different, with the hourly schedule |
| 18:56.50 | joshh | but bart and muni are usually timed pretty well at rush hour |
| 18:57.02 | jlp_znc | I do agree that bart is amazing |
| 18:57.11 | joshh | seattle is known for decent bus system but ive never taken a bus there |
| 18:57.13 | jlp_znc | long fast trains that are on time. |
| 18:57.57 | joshh | trax is better than nothing though, and probably about as good as you could expect somewhere like utah |
| 18:58.14 | joshh | its just not the kind of train you walk over to from your front door |
| 18:59.39 | joshh | if i worked in downtown slc and lived a short drive from a trax parking lot i'd use it without question |
| 18:59.45 | joshh | but most utah tech jobs are not in downtown slc |
| 19:00.01 | joshh | its all bankers and lawyers there |
| 19:02.51 | jlp_znc | there are a few tech companies downtown, but most of them are dispersed. |
| 19:02.56 | jfindlay | I wouldn't be surprised if office space in north Lehi cost much less than downtown SLC |
| 19:03.14 | joshh | ya, for sure |
| 19:03.31 | joshh | if you need a campus, lehi is a decent place |
| 19:03.49 | jfindlay | also there's a frontrunner stop there |
| 19:04.04 | joshh | but if you're an employee who likes to take midday walks around the city, lehi will be not very fun |
| 19:04.06 | jfindlay | but good luck crossing the many highways |
| 19:04.26 | joshh | same with working in san jose/sunnyvale/etc |
| 19:04.40 | joshh | though palo alto and mountain view have some nice walkable areas |
| 19:04.55 | joshh | and SF of course has tons of jobs and a lot to do |
| 19:06.02 | joshh | SLC does have a few downtown companies that look kinda cool |
| 19:06.14 | jfindlay | in SF you can drop a kilodollar in a day and wonder where it all went |
| 19:06.15 | joshh | like recursion pharmaceuticals at the gateway where dicks sporting goods was |
| 19:06.48 | joshh | don't know a lot about them but they seem to be growing there |
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| 21:06.20 | romanovic | joshh: i'd take midday walks around most parts of Lehi over down town any day, as my personal preference. Depends on where you are in Lehi I guess |
| 21:06.52 | joshh | or what you want to walk to, ay |
| 21:06.58 | joshh | ya i mean |
| 21:07.10 | romanovic | I want multi-use paths, separated from car traffic. Lehi has Jordan river parkway and Murdock canal trail |
| 21:07.32 | romanovic | including crossing under all of the freeways there at the Timpanogos Hwy exit |
| 21:07.51 | joshh | i like walking by bars and taco carts |
| 21:08.03 | joshh | and waterfronts |
| 21:08.12 | joshh | jordan river is ok but kinda swampy |
| 21:08.24 | joshh | at least the parts ive been |
| 21:11.11 | RyanE | That's the ugly end of the Murdock Canal Trail as well. |
| 21:11.24 | RyanE | much nicer up by Provo/Orem, and teh Provo River Parkway trail is nicer still. |
| 21:12.24 | romanovic | Although I have noticed that I learn to enjoy walking some areas that I at first thought were disgusting. Once I do it for a while and associate the new backdrop with endorphins after doing it frequently enough |
| 21:15.15 | joshh | some cities are good for both urban and trail/nature walks |
| 21:15.23 | joshh | like portland, or parts of salt lake |
| 21:21.17 | joshh | i like city walks during lunch or after work, and mountains/beaches on weekends, generally speaking |
| 21:35.12 | jfindlay | when do you like deserts/tundra? |
| 21:54.18 | joshh | tundra only if im watching a caribou migration documentary |
| 21:54.35 | joshh | deserts can be beautiful if they aren't too desolate |
| 21:54.53 | joshh | desert flowers, cactii, etc are nice, but not just a vast sea of dirt |
| 21:55.18 | jlp_znc | they do this 100 mile endurance run out on the salt flats every year... I would think that would get monotonous. |
| 21:55.55 | jlp_znc | http://saltflatsenduranceruns.com/fdcjm8sb56iscq056z0b6el05mz0y1 |
| 21:59.36 | joshh | that would be a pretty miserable run i'd imagine |
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