| 00:56.02 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@208.53.50.136) |
| 00:56.02 | *** topic/#utah is Utah-related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://infobot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | To combat spam, you must register with NickServ if you wish to speak. This may or may not be temporary. |
| 00:56.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:56.25 | *** join/#utah Brace13 (~Brace@138-204-70-197.wantel.net.br) |
| 01:01.56 | *** join/#utah ollien (~ollien@190.214.233.253) |
| 01:22.03 | *** join/#utah Solprefixer (~Solprefix@2800:bf0:9fff:f400:5a60:5fff:fe2d:1b7b) |
| 01:31.17 | *** join/#utah conno (~conno@218.159.17.5) |
| 01:59.37 | *** join/#utah jnbek (~jnbek@198.98.48.34) |
| 01:59.37 | *** join/#utah jnbek (~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek) |
| 02:47.38 | *** join/#utah ignacio23 (~ignacio@115.84.107.30) |
| 03:56.06 | *** join/#utah fxrh9 (~fxrh@123.21.137.135) |
| 03:59.02 | *** join/#utah Cronus16 (~Cronus@186.178.73.76) |
| 04:08.40 | *** join/#utah channels (~channels@host-2-100-242-37.as13285.net) |
| 04:20.36 | *** join/#utah OGF10 (~OGF@122.52.183.184) |
| 04:23.18 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@174-23-6-75.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:28.56 | *** join/#utah nou (~nou@175.126.16.196) |
| 04:53.15 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@174-23-46-167.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:11.01 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@174-23-46-167.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:17.31 | *** join/#utah NeddySeagoon5 (~NeddySeag@g197.220-213-33.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) |
| 05:33.25 | *** join/#utah sary (~sary@185.11.225.149) |
| 05:36.58 | *** join/#utah annieslmaos (~annieslma@121.145.214.195) |
| 05:41.23 | *** join/#utah irinix18 (~irinix@220.93.93.98) |
| 05:49.01 | *** join/#utah rorx0 (~rorx@78.193.49.69) |
| 05:58.09 | *** join/#utah d1b12 (~d1b@178.185.11.33) |
| 06:22.01 | *** join/#utah Guest12158 (~j-fish@c-24-18-203-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:48.46 | *** join/#utah james41382 (~james4138@46-236-79-33.customer.t3.se) |
| 06:56.28 | *** join/#utah Zoddo12 (~Zoddo@220.123.0.105) |
| 07:01.29 | *** join/#utah justanotheruser2 (~justanoth@87.239.248.14) |
| 07:16.55 | *** join/#utah foddo28 (~foddo@5.140.221.252) |
| 07:31.09 | *** join/#utah badseed (~badseed@218.153.112.86) |
| 07:33.56 | *** join/#utah alekz6 (~alekz@111.231.87.204) |
| 07:41.27 | *** join/#utah marduk19123 (~marduk191@180.255.3.220) |
| 07:46.44 | *** join/#utah BigBen212 (~BigBen212@vax.deltaknoten.de) |
| 08:38.48 | *** join/#utah ktr22 (~ktr@117.243.230.148) |
| 09:28.43 | *** join/#utah yaymuffins8 (~yaymuffin@183.88.238.139) |
| 09:41.10 | *** join/#utah preaction21 (~preaction@83.218.117.221) |
| 09:59.02 | *** join/#utah Alina-malina2 (~Alina-mal@71.197.180.245) |
| 10:03.15 | *** join/#utah Redfoxmoon8 (~Redfoxmoo@159.192.233.225) |
| 10:16.33 | *** join/#utah slackjeff (~slackjeff@138.118.7.17) |
| 10:35.28 | *** join/#utah Vlad16 (~Vlad@171.241.16.232) |
| 11:05.41 | *** join/#utah yukaia (sid110254@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npzdvqlnzzspknik) |
| 11:36.11 | *** join/#utah cylon512_ (~cylon512_@2800:bf0:9fff:f401:ca1f:beff:fef6:1348) |
| 11:51.03 | *** join/#utah Syfer (~Syfer@220.121.233.123) |
| 11:55.08 | *** join/#utah Fridtjof19 (~Fridtjof@81.171.74.49) |
| 13:38.43 | *** join/#utah SuperSeriousCat2 (~SuperSeri@213.164.99.193) |
| 13:53.24 | *** join/#utah floogulinc9 (~floogulin@121.125.175.218) |
| 13:59.19 | *** join/#utah ripazha14 (~ripazha@113.190.204.251) |
| 14:04.26 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-ifbcidpzxxnuvpth) |
| 14:17.34 | *** join/#utah nb24 (~nb@138.121.23.70) |
| 14:24.00 | *** join/#utah macky16 (~macky@14.226.60.60) |
| 14:48.32 | *** join/#utah Jantz (~IceChat9@118-93-138-233.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 14:49.21 | *** join/#utah braxtron (~braxtron@216.160.248.178) |
| 14:53.34 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.123.2) |
| 14:54.39 | *** join/#utah Shibe6 (~Shibe@121.224.119.240) |
| 14:58.16 | *** join/#utah Asoka28 (~Asoka@p241.net059086047.tokai.or.jp) |
| 14:58.34 | *** join/#utah KDDLB (~KDDLB@123.16.30.86) |
| 15:01.36 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-zxdozpvdlaefficy) |
| 15:02.55 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:08.09 | *** join/#utah JesseOor (~JesseOor@221.149.33.223) |
| 15:30.52 | romanovic | https://act.eff.org/action/stop-another-expansion-of-copyright-tell-the-senate-to-vote-no-on-s-2823 |
| 15:31.31 | romanovic | "The CLASSICS Act would extend federal copyright restrictions and penalties to sound recordings made between 1923 and 1972, making it so that songs recorded in that era would, for the first time, not be able to be streamed online without a license." |
| 15:31.57 | *** join/#utah Bkid6 (~Bkid@41.45.251.103) |
| 15:31.59 | romanovic | "Important recordings from the 1920s, 30s, and 40s wonât enter the public domain until 2067. And users of recordings that are already over 90 years old will face the risk of federal copyrightâs massive, unpredictable penalties." |
| 16:03.25 | *** join/#utah gnord (~gog@unaffiliated/snowghost) |
| 16:19.28 | *** join/#utah april (~april@191.112.106.134) |
| 16:40.18 | *** join/#utah bairdmich (~bairdmich@37.114.190.228) |
| 16:49.30 | *** join/#utah nandub (~nandub@189.41.57.220) |
| 16:57.08 | frostyfrog | So, I tried setting up a python script on my laptop that I found online without using pip... |
| 16:57.14 | frostyfrog | Man, that was painful |
| 17:14.53 | spangborn | why didn't you want to use pip |
| 17:15.25 | spangborn | Is this one of those "I hate python so I'm going to reinforce my bias by making the task more difficult than necessary" moments? |
| 17:16.56 | spangborn | youtah: you around? |
| 17:18.40 | youtah | yeah |
| 17:18.46 | youtah | you getting your ham radio license? |
| 17:19.14 | youtah | lol... just saw your comments above. |
| 17:19.42 | spangborn | :) |
| 17:19.46 | youtah | You know what's horrible? I hate it when I go to write bash script and call a binary that I cannot use because I have to use this stupid online repository thing |
| 17:20.01 | youtah | some apt-get install thing |
| 17:20.03 | youtah | ;) |
| 17:27.45 | BigBen212 | You know what's horrible? Trying to take a shower without taking your clothes off. They stick to your body with all the water and it's difficult to get soap everywhere. |
| 17:29.22 | spangborn | You know what's horrible? |
| 17:29.49 | spangborn | Trying to shower without using indoor plumbing. You have to bring a bucket full of water from a water source and dump it over yourself |
| 17:33.47 | frostyfrog | I was trained to not use pip install at work |
| 17:33.54 | frostyfrog | Something to do with security |
| 17:34.14 | spangborn | but you copied/pasted code from the internet |
| 17:34.16 | spangborn | sooo |
| 17:34.32 | frostyfrog | Code that I vetted |
| 17:35.17 | spangborn | If only there was some sort of package repository |
| 17:35.36 | spangborn | Do you also compile your work machines from source and vet all the source? |
| 17:35.43 | frostyfrog | that was vetted by someone who does security *cough* apt *cough* |
| 17:36.22 | frostyfrog | s/apt/like apt/ |
| 17:37.16 | frostyfrog | This isn't a thing agains python. |
| 17:37.35 | frostyfrog | It's against languages having their own package manager :p https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/ |
| 17:38.01 | spangborn | Oh you mean like CPAN |
| 17:39.51 | frostyfrog | Yeah, like that. Most of the time, if I want a perl module, I'm glad that for simple things I can typically just use the system's package manager. |
| 17:41.40 | youtah | this conversation is a Gem |
| 17:41.43 | youtah | a Ruby in the rough |
| 17:43.24 | frostyfrog | Part of the problem is: Every system has it's own package manager with it's own packaging system. If developers want to distribute their libraries to everyone, they've got to go through the effort of packaging it for each OS. So language developers decided to make their own package managers as a workaround to that problem. (IMO) |
| 17:45.10 | frostyfrog | And I'll agree, I don't like ruby gems either, or PHP's composer, or Conan/Buckaroo for C/C++, etc. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: |
| 17:45.34 | frostyfrog | https://xkcd.com/927/ comes to mind |
| 17:55.43 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@2a02:8308:a03f:a500:4f8:b8c7:5a78:5918) |
| 18:20.38 | joshh | i dunno about security for pip itself, but its usually considered a bad practice to "sudo pip install", or otherwise use for a sysemwide installation of something |
| 18:22.14 | joshh | it can install to to the same target directory as your project for simple toy stuff, or virtualenvs/docker/etc for production or more complex dev |
| 18:22.50 | joshh | my guess is your work "trainers" weren't 100% correct but no idea what was actually said or taught |
| 18:23.46 | joshh | most common modules that you might want systemwide, or for outside containers or venvs are in the distro repo as you mentioned, thankfully |
| 18:24.17 | joshh | which is fine for the stable things that you don't care about the latest versions for |
| 18:25.12 | joshh | but the idea of a workplace that uses python where people are trained not to use pip seems quite bizarre |
| 18:44.22 | spangborn | If you're writing python not using virtualenv, you're doing it wrong |
| 18:45.36 | *** join/#utah braxtron (~braxtron@216.160.248.178) |
| 19:13.39 | frostyfrog | And, 90% of the guides out there say to just pip install or easy_install, not a single mention of virtualenv :p |
| 19:13.50 | frostyfrog | So how does virtualenv work, anyways? |
| 19:14.15 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.123.2) |
| 19:23.03 | BigBen212 | spangborn: I only tried virtualenv one time and I wasn't happy with it because it made it more difficult to just execute a python script I wrote on one machine to a different machine because I would have had to set up the environment there as well |
| 19:23.13 | BigBen212 | but maybe I did it wrong. |
| 19:24.22 | spangborn | I mean, the point is that the script is sandboxed to it's own dependencies |
| 19:24.35 | spangborn | and when you move to a different machine, you should be setting up those dependencies |
| 19:25.07 | BigBen212 | yeah, and that worked about half way |
| 19:25.30 | BigBen212 | except, I wanted the script to run using the Windows task scheduler |
| 19:25.45 | BigBen212 | as a different user |
| 19:25.51 | spangborn | Well that sounds like it's a windows problem, not a virtualenv problem |
| 19:26.08 | BigBen212 | yup, I'm sure that's a big part of it |
| 19:26.29 | spangborn | There's a great solution for that |
| 19:26.34 | spangborn | Get rid of the Windows machine ;p |
| 19:26.53 | BigBen212 | anyway, after struggling with that whole thing for a while, I went back to just using the python that's installed on the machien anyway |
| 19:27.17 | BigBen212 | yeah, it's at my new work and it's a machine that also holds the MS SQL Server |
| 19:27.42 | BigBen212 | not 100% happy with the environment here, becaue I've also got PHP running on IIS |
| 19:27.47 | BigBen212 | and Postgres on Windows |
| 19:27.53 | frostyfrog | o.o |
| 19:28.04 | BigBen212 | it's not ideal to say the least, but it works, for now |
| 19:28.10 | frostyfrog | Does it have WSL at all available to the machine? |
| 19:28.13 | spangborn | my god |
| 19:28.17 | frostyfrog | ^ |
| 19:28.18 | spangborn | that sounds awful |
| 19:28.29 | spangborn | PHP on IIS is a charlie foxtrot |
| 19:28.40 | frostyfrog | CF? |
| 19:28.50 | spangborn | clusterfuck |
| 19:28.57 | frostyfrog | Ah, I see. x3 |
| 19:29.06 | frostyfrog | I can agree with that. |
| 19:29.19 | BigBen212 | I tried talking my boss into switching to Linux |
| 19:29.21 | frostyfrog | I would've installed WAMP or XAMP |
| 19:29.25 | spangborn | I've done it before |
| 19:29.33 | spangborn | Because I was installing Wordpress for a client who demanded it run on Windows |
| 19:29.34 | BigBen212 | he agreed that I can set up my own Linux Desktop at my cubicle, but that's it for now |
| 19:29.43 | BigBen212 | his plan is to move things to AWS anyway |
| 19:29.54 | spangborn | Because the person administering the box doesn't know Linux apparently |
| 19:29.56 | BigBen212 | and he just inherited the windows stuff anyway, so it's not like he's a big fan |
| 19:30.32 | BigBen212 | I've got XAMP on my windows machine for development and that's nice. |
| 19:31.32 | spangborn | The problem is that XAMP is just as hokey |
| 19:31.46 | spangborn | using most PHP projects on a Windows filesystem becomes a nightmare |
| 19:32.01 | youtah | XAMP is great for a quick "Hey, wanna try this out for 2 seconds on this throw away already setup windows machine |
| 19:32.03 | youtah | " |
| 19:32.14 | frostyfrog | It's better than having to deal with and learn to configure IIS, IMO |
| 19:32.16 | youtah | but if you have a linux box, LAMP is so stupid easy to setu[ |
| 19:32.18 | youtah | p |
| 19:32.51 | youtah | but working with rewrites and other fancy rules with XAMP is a nightmare |
| 19:33.01 | spangborn | And good luck getting XAMP running correctly on boot |
| 19:33.01 | spangborn | lol |
| 19:33.23 | spangborn | and getting any reasonable amount of performance out of it |
| 19:33.30 | youtah | sudo apt-get install linux-with-lamp |
| 19:33.37 | spangborn | I love lamp |
| 19:33.39 | youtah | that should be a thing |
| 19:33.43 | spangborn | where the P is Python |
| 19:33.43 | youtah | for windows |
| 19:33.46 | youtah | yes |
| 19:33.51 | spangborn | but not perl |
| 19:33.55 | youtah | P for Python, for Perfect |
| 19:33.57 | spangborn | because Perl is atrocious |
| 19:34.23 | frostyfrog | was used to P standing for PHP |
| 19:34.31 | youtah | Pretty Hacked Perl |
| 19:34.34 | spangborn | lol |
| 19:34.37 | spangborn | It usually is |
| 19:34.46 | spangborn | Honestly I don't even care that much for MySQL |
| 19:34.50 | spangborn | The M should be MariaDB |
| 19:35.03 | youtah | I've been using a lot of postgres lately |
| 19:35.16 | spangborn | That explains your delayed response time |
| 19:35.20 | youtah | W |
| 19:35.22 | spangborn | makes up shit as he goes along |
| 19:35.24 | youtah | H |
| 19:35.27 | youtah | A |
| 19:35.32 | youtah | T |
| 19:35.36 | youtah | ? |
| 19:35.40 | youtah | lol |
| 19:36.03 | youtah | no, it does pretty dang well for what I have needed/used |
| 19:38.30 | frostyfrog | Which probably wasn't a public facing medium-heavy traffic website, from what I understand of postgres. I've never used it myself, so I have no idea if what I'm saying has any truth to it :p |
| 19:39.37 | youtah | I've used Postgres in the past on servers that were just absolutely hammered with data... they did just fine |
| 19:39.43 | youtah | where as MySQL chokes and dies |
| 19:40.17 | frostyfrog | Aww, I can't find the website with the step by step tutorial on installing apache, PHP, tomcat, and mysql on windows. It was very helpful in 2004/2005 when I used it :3 |
| 19:41.53 | youtah | Apple, BioPharm, Etsy, IMDB, Macworld, Debian, Fujitsu, Red Hat, Sun Microsystem, Cisco, Skype all use Postgres |
| 19:42.02 | youtah | GitHub, US Navy, NASA, Tesla, Netflix, WeChat, Facebook, Zendesk, Twitter, Zappos, YouTube, Spotify use MySQL |
| 19:42.07 | youtah | so.... |
| 19:43.14 | joshh | frostyfrog: basically like a chroot or container for a python project, so keeps all the dependencies contained within that. so you could e.g. have 3 different python projects in your homedir that all have different versions of the same module, or use different interpreters etc |
| 19:43.28 | frostyfrog | I'd say that those MySQL users have more traffic. Specifically since the social media giants are using it. |
| 19:43.44 | joshh | if you "pip install" within a virtualenv, it installs locally into that (without needing the --target option or anything) |
| 19:43.54 | frostyfrog | joshh: Ah, okay. That makes sense :) |
| 19:44.47 | BigBen212 | I really like postgres and it's never let me down |
| 19:45.27 | BigBen212 | the reason they still have MSSQL here at my new work is because that's just what was in place already |
| 19:45.36 | BigBen212 | but it's the biggest garbage pile you could imagine |
| 19:45.50 | youtah | PostgreSQL does a great job with synchronous replication too |
| 19:45.59 | BigBen212 | too many people worked on it over the years and they all dumped stuff into it and forgot that it was there |
| 19:46.09 | youtah | Where I believe MySQL is one way |
| 19:46.54 | BigBen212 | doesn't Wikipedia use MySQL still ? |
| 19:47.02 | BigBen212 | or was that just in the past ? |
| 19:47.07 | youtah | They probably do |
| 19:47.18 | joshh | anywhere big is likely to use many different databases for different things |
| 19:47.19 | BigBen212 | I've only had small things on mysql |
| 19:47.29 | BigBen212 | joshh: so true |
| 19:47.37 | BigBen212 | especially when more people worked on it over the years |
| 19:47.41 | youtah | https://www.mysql.com/customers/ |
| 19:47.50 | youtah | I dont see them on the splash page |
| 19:47.58 | spangborn | They probably moved to MariaDB |
| 19:48.10 | spangborn | https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/04/22/wikipedia-adopts-mariadb/ |
| 19:48.11 | spangborn | They did |
| 19:48.31 | BigBen212 | 2013 ... I guess I'm a bit behind |
| 19:48.38 | BigBen212 | :) |
| 19:48.57 | youtah | https://stackshare.io/postgresql |
| 19:49.07 | youtah | Looks like Spotify switched to Postgres as well |
| 19:49.27 | youtah | Pandora, Netflix, Instagram, Uber |
| 19:49.33 | youtah | granted, a company CAN use both |
| 19:50.29 | youtah | https://stackshare.io/spotify/spotify |
| 19:51.01 | youtah | Kafka... huh, haven't heard of that one |
| 19:53.19 | youtah | https://kafka.apache.org/intro << kind of interesting |
| 20:04.32 | frostyfrog | As I recall, it's more of a message queue |
| 20:04.45 | frostyfrog | At least, that's how I've heard that it's used. |
| 20:05.11 | frostyfrog | So it'd be similar to Rabbit (which I have used) |
| 22:13.15 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.123.2) |
| 22:28.14 | eightyeight | ~ie++ |
| 22:28.17 | eightyeight | ~brave++ |
| 22:28.20 | eightyeight | ~spangborn++ |
| 22:49.08 | youtah | I use rabbitmq |
| 22:49.11 | youtah | it's nice |
| 23:20.57 | *** join/#utah Jantz (~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:a4b4:f2c1:b503:cfc7) |
| 23:37.17 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 23:42.48 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.123.2) |