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| 07:08.18 | jfindlay | TodPunk: stack exchange and reddit also have their overabundances of cesspoolery |
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| 14:56.37 | jima | spangborn: sigh. |
| 14:56.56 | jima | jfindlay: ...but enough about their employees. |
| 14:57.14 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 14:57.29 | jima | (i reserve the right to take potshots: my former boss now works for stack exchange.) |
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| 16:31.37 | jfindlay | jima: :) |
| 16:32.32 | aeryndunham | hi guys |
| 16:32.42 | aeryndunham | haven't been at a desk in weeks! |
| 16:32.45 | aeryndunham | happy to have irc back |
| 16:34.18 | jfindlay | server fault seems to be particularly egregious: penitent questioners apologizing for troubling the masters, who then can never seem to reach outside the well of their own hubris to imagine that other people might have a valid viewpoint |
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| 17:43.59 | aeryndunham | my lunch blew away in the wind |
| 17:46.13 | spangborn | lol what |
| 17:46.19 | spangborn | literally blew away? |
| 17:50.37 | aeryndunham | yeah, my nachos went flying |
| 17:50.41 | aeryndunham | I usually sit outside |
| 17:53.33 | spangborn | Sad |
| 17:54.23 | aeryndunham | very |
| 17:55.55 | spangborn | I'm on my 5th day of not being able to do anything at work |
| 17:56.17 | spangborn | IT pushed a software update to my mandatory development VM and it's unusable |
| 17:56.32 | spangborn | and they've just been passing the ticket around while doing nothing |
| 17:57.39 | romanovic | spangborn: ouch. what platform do you develop on? all developers do their development inside a cloud-based VM? Linux? |
| 17:58.04 | spangborn | We're a Java shop, our VMs are in our data centers (Citrix) |
| 17:58.15 | spangborn | The VM gets used due to a high level of paranoia |
| 17:58.31 | spangborn | basically they don't want anyone walking out of the building with source |
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| 17:59.09 | spangborn | Any source code found on your laptop (used basically only for connecting to the VM) gets you fired |
| 17:59.18 | aeryndunham | My project is kind of a huge dumpster fire right now too |
| 17:59.20 | aeryndunham | yikes |
| 17:59.59 | aeryndunham | My mail license was accidentally revoked over the weekend and I was actually hoping I'd just been fired and no one had told me |
| 18:00.12 | romanovic | aeryndunham: is that why you've not been at your desk in a while? putting out fires? |
| 18:00.25 | aeryndunham | haha I was on the ship for 2 weeks |
| 18:00.32 | aeryndunham | and then I went to NYC to see my family for most of last week |
| 18:00.35 | spangborn | That explains the pretty pictures :) |
| 18:00.39 | aeryndunham | yup |
| 18:00.56 | romanovic | oh cool. |
| 18:04.07 | aeryndunham | Today's big drama is that partner companies are refusing to work until they are paid |
| 18:11.01 | aeryndunham | so that's kind of put development to a halt |
| 18:38.37 | aeryndunham | gosh it's nice that everyone who works here thinks I know the answer to everything but I am always disappointed when I CAN'T answer something |
| 18:42.30 | jfindlay | that's the hazard of working in 'IT' |
| 18:42.32 | jfindlay | ~roy |
| 18:42.33 | infobot | People; What a bunch of bastards. |
| 18:42.45 | jfindlay | lol |
| 18:43.09 | jfindlay | ~~lolstatsstats |
| 18:43.26 | jfindlay | ~youtahstats |
| 18:46.32 | aeryndunham | I don't even work in 'IT' though |
| 18:46.38 | aeryndunham | I just pretend I do |
| 18:52.52 | aeryndunham | good lord this woman with a doctorate in IT Management honestly thinks posting a screenshot in Slack is "properly documenting issues" |
| 18:57.16 | frostyfrog | ... |
| 18:57.50 | frostyfrog | "but she has a doctorate's in IT Man--- oh... Management. That makes sense. |
| 18:58.12 | aeryndunham | hah |
| 18:58.23 | aeryndunham | and we aren't saying you CAN'T post a screenshot in Slack, it's often the quickest way to get someone's attention |
| 18:58.38 | aeryndunham | but when someone asked to to make sure these were being documented properly, she said: |
| 18:58.41 | aeryndunham | "but I posted a screenshot!" |
| 18:58.45 | frostyfrog | But what's there today, won't be there next week |
| 18:59.22 | frostyfrog | and screenshots are most definitely not searchable. |
| 18:59.53 | frostyfrog | "Ctrl+F ... Why can't I find what I'm looking for?! I saw it 2 days ago..." |
| 19:00.55 | aeryndunham | Hah, I typically have better luck finding old stuff in Slack than I do in JIRA >.> |
| 19:01.34 | aeryndunham | I find the 'post a screenshot' method useful when I'm getting an error message and I don't even know what team's service it is |
| 19:01.43 | aeryndunham | to be like WHO OWNS THIS etc etc |
| 19:02.23 | frostyfrog | Agreed about JIRA |
| 19:02.49 | frostyfrog | generally ends up creating their own markdown wiki server and writes documentation on that. >_> |
| 19:05.38 | aeryndunham | yeah I've done that |
| 19:10.22 | aeryndunham | omg I'm logged out of my email again and another authentication error |
| 19:10.26 | aeryndunham | WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING |
| 19:23.04 | TodPunk | jfindlay: I can't treat reddit as one site. When people talk about reddit hordes, they're talking about the front page and the default mega-subs. Individual subs are essentially separate sites and they are often moderated to a point that a different culture pervades. Niche subreddits can be awesome like individual IRC channels can be. |
| 19:23.37 | TodPunk | What makes reddit powerful is the user base and onboarding new users, which is what IRC is declining on, sadly |
| 19:24.18 | TodPunk | Stack exchange is just... well, an entirely different set of problems, largely with little to no curation or quality control except for answers to popular questions |
| 19:24.47 | TodPunk | (and even then, the question is probably stupid, and the answer is still probably stupid, but at least popularly "professional" enough, and likely involves jquery) |
| 19:27.47 | TodPunk | My biggest grievance with the new blood in tech in general is that nobody can be bothered to learn HOW a system works and HOW things interact, let alone WHY they were designed that way |
| 19:29.04 | TodPunk | instead we just want to know "HOW do I make a div do this?" or "HOW do I setup a website using NodeJS?" The answers to those should be "depends on what you want to do, this is a choose your own adventure thing" |
| 19:29.45 | TodPunk | but it ends up being "follow this tutorial, and if you get stuck somewhere, god help you, nobody knows what's going on. Maybe submit a support ticket and hope for some handholding from one of the few people that knows how to explore things" |
| 19:30.06 | romanovic | TodPunk: this makes finding the right talent more difficult, but I view it as job security |
| 19:30.39 | TodPunk | I would too, if I wanted to live in this kind of world and be Mr Answerguy forever. |
| 19:32.02 | TodPunk | I'd rather build some actual cool stuff, but good lord is that a rare thing to find where the rest of the company isn't on fire all the time |
| 19:32.48 | TodPunk | (Speaking of which, aren't you at Domo: "Bro, we chart stuff" still?) |
| 19:33.57 | romanovic | I'm happy to be Mr Answerguy in a consulting capacity. I agree it is a little less attractive when it's a team member or partner who is supposed to be carrying their part of the load and refuse to show any independent resourcefulness |
| 19:34.40 | TodPunk | I think more often than not, they /can't/ show any independent resourcefulness. Like, how do you even teach that? |
| 19:42.36 | romanovic | Hah, yes, still Domo. Although I've never worked on the more superficial parts of the product, like charts |
| 19:43.28 | spangborn | lmfao https://twitter.com/zackwhittaker/status/935508579783663616 |
| 19:43.33 | spangborn | dies laughing |
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| 20:33.39 | Migs | https://twitter.com/lemiorhan/status/935578694541770752 |
| 20:33.58 | Migs | "Apple, the Microsoft of the 2010's" hahahaha |
| 20:45.00 | jfindlay | TodPunk: 'nobody knows what's going on [with node]' :-) |
| 20:45.22 | TodPunk | xD |
| 20:46.09 | TodPunk | I meant with anything (mostly they don't know how to do things like log into a linux server, let alone install nginx/apache and configure it), but that works pretty well, too |
| 20:46.17 | jfindlay | my first attempt at learning node involved a < 1 year old tutorial that was so badly broken by updates to the software that I practically gave up on JS altogether |
| 20:46.57 | jfindlay | to be fair, the first time I setup apache was even more painful |
| 20:47.11 | jfindlay | but for different reasons |
| 20:48.09 | TodPunk | I enjoyed learning it and having discussions about it with other learners afterward. The webhost I was at was incredibly friendly towards community. |
| 20:51.28 | jfindlay | I think my main problem was trying to do things on my own |
| 20:51.39 | jfindlay | that was before I discovered plug |
| 20:52.29 | jfindlay | seeing how other people interact with technology can really change how you think about it, especially if you're a beginner |
| 20:53.26 | jfindlay | but you're right TodPunk that the new technology culture is quite different |
| 20:53.42 | TodPunk | Yeah, I remember after years of isolated tinkering and occasional BBS interactions, that I learned I was pronouncing "kernel" wrong in my head |
| 20:53.59 | TodPunk | "curr-nell" |
| 20:54.38 | jfindlay | ironically, not as welcoming, more utilitarian and definitely not as interested in enjoying building and using technology |
| 20:55.48 | TodPunk | The shift to caring more about who is doing it rather than what you're doing is the greatest loss in my mind. |
| 20:55.58 | TodPunk | We have a good thing where who you were did NOT matter at all =c/ |
| 20:56.40 | TodPunk | It's still there, hence "have" in that sentence, but you have to wade through a lot of nonsense to find pockets of it anymore |
| 20:57.36 | aeryndunham | Wait, how do you pronounce kernel? am I saying it wrong? |
| 20:57.50 | aeryndunham | it's like colonel, right? |
| 20:57.56 | TodPunk | popcorn kernel, yeah |
| 20:58.11 | TodPunk | I put a lot of emphasis on the "nell" part |
| 20:58.14 | aeryndunham | ahh |
| 20:58.24 | aeryndunham | my mind was blown the first time I heard someone say 'nginx' out loud |
| 20:58.29 | TodPunk | because clearly it's not spelled anything like colonel =cP |
| 21:07.51 | TodPunk | (I was 16 when I learned I was wrong. It was deeply embarrassing at the time and hilarious now) |
| 21:27.27 | romanovic | aeryndunham: seasoned developers and admins seem to come up with their own pronunciations as well. I've heard "en-JIN-ix", "EN-jinx", "en-GUINN-ex" |
| 21:28.02 | aeryndunham | haha |
| 21:29.06 | romanovic | there were a few developers at a previous job who kept spelling it "nginix" in emails, because they heard people pronouncing it "en-jin-ix" around the office |
| 21:38.38 | spangborn | lol |
| 21:59.37 | Migs | that's pretty dumb |
| 22:02.23 | aeryndunham | i shouldn't look up job listings in cities I dont' live in |
| 22:02.53 | aeryndunham | I mean I checked because I hoped they had remote stuff |
| 22:02.55 | aeryndunham | alas |
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| 22:23.14 | jlp_znc | wait, I've been pronouncing nginx wrong? |
| 22:23.17 | jlp_znc | and hey, people! |
| 22:23.40 | jlp_znc | I say en-jin-ex |
| 22:23.58 | jlp_znc | I don't necessarily emphasize any of that |
| 22:33.47 | spangborn | same |
| 22:34.00 | spangborn | jlp_znc: the project itself says both are correct |
| 22:34.21 | spangborn | https://www.nginx.com/resources/wiki/community/faq/ |
| 22:44.45 | Migs | I've been job hunting lately, too...I don't think I want anything but a remote job, though |
| 22:45.02 | Migs | commuting to SLC doesn't sound great |
| 22:45.12 | spangborn | Moving to SLC sounds better |
| 22:45.16 | Migs | possibly |
| 22:45.19 | Migs | but I like Ogden |
| 22:45.28 | Migs | family's here |
| 22:45.42 | Migs | laying down roots yo |
| 22:45.43 | TodPunk | Have you considered getting family to move to civilization? |
| 22:46.05 | Migs | if I were going to the trouble of moving, I'd probably want to go somewhere warmer |
| 22:46.48 | Migs | I haven't had to apply to any job in 12+ years...I just got my first generic rejection letter today. |
| 22:46.57 | Migs | "Thank you for applying for the Lead Full-Stack Developer - PHP & Laravel position. At this time, we do not wish to proceed with interviewing you for this position. Unfortunately, due to large volume of applications, we cannot provide reasons for this at the time." |
| 22:46.59 | Migs | lol |
| 22:47.13 | Migs | I can't believe people put up with this nonsense. |
| 22:47.37 | jlp_znc | I can put you in touch with some recruiters if you like. |
| 22:47.50 | jlp_znc | some that I have used in the past. |
| 22:47.56 | Migs | I've had a few contact me, but sure...I'm open to anything |
| 22:48.05 | jlp_znc | PM me an e-mail address |
| 22:48.11 | Migs | sure thing, thanks! |
| 22:49.31 | spangborn | Migs: I get those all the time |
| 22:49.34 | Migs | I really think it'd take a LOT to get me to do anything but a remote position at this point...and I'm not sure you need a recruiter for those, since everyone's applying to remote jobs |
| 22:49.36 | spangborn | One time, I got one 3 years after applying |
| 22:49.42 | spangborn | I kid you not |
| 23:34.36 | jfindlay | spangborn: they were just clearing out the mail queue |