| 00:53.28 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@170.250.131.201) |
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| 03:06.32 | spangborn | omg systemd's network interface names |
| 03:06.34 | spangborn | atrocious |
| 03:15.05 | TodPunk | yes, it is rather stupid |
| 03:15.26 | TodPunk | you don't /care/ about any of the information it's storing in these interface names 99% of the time, either |
| 03:15.43 | TodPunk | if you /do/ there are tools that can get you them in the context you're going to care about them |
| 03:16.07 | TodPunk | all the names do now is make discovery and configuration ridiculous |
| 03:18.55 | spangborn | I just nuked the new naming scheme |
| 03:19.01 | spangborn | and we're back to the good ol wlan0 |
| 03:19.22 | spangborn | ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link |
| 03:19.27 | spangborn | Magic |
| 03:19.49 | spangborn | wlx74da38661c75 |
| 03:19.51 | spangborn | This is not useful |
| 03:20.06 | spangborn | and editing /etc/network/interfaces is a pain in the ass with these names |
| 04:39.02 | klys | spangborn, does it work with systemv-core too |
| 04:39.16 | klys | er, sysvinit-core |
| 04:48.13 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@88.sub-97-43-194.myvzw.com) |
| 05:14.27 | spangborn | Not sure, haven't tried |
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| 06:23.47 | levi | The names themselves are not very ergonomic, but there's a sound reason for them. |
| 10:36.20 | klys | ~slashdot |
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| 14:24.06 | frostyfrog | About the main useful thing that I've seen from having the systemd nameing scheme, is when "eth0" switches with "eth1" or "eth2" and now you've just established a DHCP server for 0.0.0.0/0 instead of your internal network ;p |
| 14:32.03 | manithree | If only you were as intelligent as Lennart, then you could see the beauty and perfection that is systemd |
| 14:32.48 | spangborn | I can see some reasons why they're not using the old scheme, but there are annoying things about the new one too |
| 14:32.58 | spangborn | One, I'm not going to memorize these interface names |
| 14:33.33 | klys | systemd? why |
| 14:34.21 | klys | my init system should be configurable and customizable and inspire me to change everything about it. |
| 14:48.27 | manithree | is apparently not as intelligent as Lennart, either |
| 14:49.06 | manithree | My init system should initialize my system |
| 15:03.22 | frostyfrog | Not my network ;p |
| 15:04.04 | frostyfrog | has chosen to rename their nics to: wan0, lan0, br0, mesh0, restricted0, whatdoyoucare13 |
| 15:05.04 | frostyfrog | is missing one... hmmm... |
| 15:09.41 | spangborn_ | This is just an rPi |
| 15:09.46 | spangborn_ | with two wireless cards |
| 15:10.00 | spangborn_ | and wlan0 and wlan1 are just fine |
| 15:14.50 | fungus | I understand the reason for systemd's renaming, the idea makes sense. However, I have *never* seen a device which re-orders the interfaces, hence no need for systemd naming. |
| 15:20.56 | spangborn_ | I mean, maybe if you're swapping USB network devices |
| 15:21.03 | spangborn_ | but I'm still not even sure I've seen it work that way |
| 15:23.45 | RyanE | I see USB devices get swapped if unplugged / plugged. |
| 15:24.05 | unum | we have hard drives that keep swapping for some reason |
| 15:24.33 | RyanE | I assume that's why FreeNAS uses UUID of drive, not dev node. |
| 15:26.17 | spangborn_ | Yeah, but you're not throwing the UUID in a ton of config files |
| 15:26.28 | spangborn_ | Most of that is done for you :) |
| 15:29.28 | levi | Guys, do you not realize that systemd is reconfigurable, and in fact there's a config file that lets you both match exactly the interface you intend *and* give it a meaningful name? |
| 15:30.29 | levi | Not that systemd is without flaws, but the previous bunch of systems were *also* full of flaws. You were just used to them. |
| 15:31.05 | spangborn_ | Sure, I configured it :) |
| 15:31.12 | spangborn_ | I'm just saying the default configuration is stupid |
| 15:31.47 | levi | So yeah, systemd sucks. Feel free to complain about it. But maybe also think a bit about things instead of just knee-jerking. |
| 15:33.36 | levi | I think the default configuration is better than the previous default configuration, which I *have* had bite me before in exactly the way the new system is meant to prevent. |
| 15:35.23 | levi | It's not meant to be ergonomic; the easy way to override the names is meant to provide ergonomics. It's meant to not be a source of bizarre edge cases that will bite you when you least expect it. |
| 15:36.49 | levi | I'm happy for those of you that don't have to build systems out of Linux that behave consistently despite variable circumstances out of your control and are thus blissfully unaware of the downsides of the old state of things. |
| 15:57.26 | manithree | is more annoyed with Lennart's attitude than with systemd |
| 16:02.58 | frostyfrog | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Network_configuration&oldid=365643#Device_names Where I last read the device renaming thing. |
| 16:05.02 | fungus | Agreed, device naming is super easy to fix and that complaint is incredibly nit-picky anyway. Overall, systemd is still light years ahead of SYSVINIT |
| 16:46.40 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~quassel@ip-64-134-191-165.public.wayport.net) |
| 16:54.37 | aeryndunham | hey all |
| 16:55.31 | spangborn_ | You're alive! |
| 16:55.43 | beelzebob | aeryndunham: how's it go? |
| 16:55.50 | aeryndunham | oh, fine |
| 16:56.08 | aeryndunham | we ended up leaving Miami because we were freaked out by everyone we've ever met texting us in a panic and begging us to leave town |
| 16:56.14 | aeryndunham | but we came back on Monday; everything's fine |
| 16:57.41 | beelzebob | where did you go? |
| 16:58.01 | beelzebob | huddled in the dark corner of some high school gymnasium? |
| 16:58.07 | aeryndunham | Gainesville |
| 16:59.19 | beelzebob | glad you're alright - wish you would have stayed now? |
| 17:00.29 | frostyfrog | aeryndunham: Miami, huh? |
| 17:00.41 | aeryndunham | yeah, we do wish we had stayed |
| 17:00.47 | aeryndunham | frostyfrog: yeah I live in Doral, FL |
| 17:00.50 | frostyfrog | If I remember correctly, the National Hurricane Center is there. |
| 17:01.26 | beelzebob | weather is always a tricky thing to gamble on |
| 17:01.53 | frostyfrog | I was surprised by how much Irma slowed down :o |
| 17:02.29 | frostyfrog | It hit land and went from a Cat 4 to a Cat 1 pretty quickly. |
| 17:03.06 | aeryndunham | yeah |
| 17:03.07 | beelzebob | I was surprised by how uneventful it was when it got to us - greatful though |
| 17:03.18 | frostyfrog | ^ |
| 17:03.48 | beelzebob | still widespread power outages, and downed tree damage |
| 17:03.52 | beelzebob | 2 days off work - not bad |
| 17:04.01 | aeryndunham | yeah I ended up with 2 1/2 days off work |
| 17:04.08 | aeryndunham | which I like, and I don't like, because RIP my paycheck |
| 17:04.22 | frostyfrog | hourly, huh? :( |
| 17:04.24 | aeryndunham | yep |
| 17:04.33 | aeryndunham | Very well paid hourly, but still |
| 17:04.54 | beelzebob | more than being unemployed! |
| 17:05.00 | frostyfrog | Ah, so you get paid the big cents. x3 |
| 17:05.09 | aeryndunham | I kind of like being hourly though, makes it easier to tell them for for example, I can't come in Monday |
| 17:05.19 | aeryndunham | Im not asking for any paid time off, so I just... don't show up |
| 17:05.20 | frostyfrog | ^ |
| 17:05.39 | frostyfrog | Does make things easier sometimes. |
| 17:05.44 | aeryndunham | i'm flying to minneapolis on saturday and I won't be back until Monday evening |
| 17:08.40 | spangborn_ | Jealous |
| 17:08.43 | spangborn_ | I miss MPLS |
| 17:09.17 | beelzebob | multiprotocol label switching? |
| 17:11.43 | *** join/#utah shalkie (shalkie@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:c011) |
| 17:12.18 | aeryndunham | I love Minneapolis |
| 17:12.34 | aeryndunham | one of my friends from college is getting married; so I'm seeing tons of friends I haven't seen in about four years |
| 17:12.40 | spangborn_ | Lucky you :) |
| 17:16.40 | aeryndunham | i'm so excited |
| 17:53.33 | jima | :-| |
| 17:53.51 | jima | i lived in the twin cities for 30 years...i don't particularly miss it. |
| 18:18.35 | aeryndunham | I went to school in MN, not the cities though |
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| 18:24.41 | frostyfrog | cities are overrated |
| 18:25.34 | aeryndunham | I lived in Moorhead,MN which is right next to Fargo, ND. it's a "city" |
| 18:27.10 | frostyfrog | <insert facebook thumbs up emoji here> |
| 18:28.01 | youtah | frostyfrog, I am not sure Bill will take your supervision comment as a joke |
| 18:28.08 | youtah | I found it funny though |
| 18:28.23 | youtah | but Bill has a lot of influence and access to a lot of locations and sites |
| 18:28.28 | youtah | so we don't want to tick him off |
| 18:30.10 | jima | aeryndunham: concordia? |
| 18:30.18 | aeryndunham | jima: MSUM |
| 18:30.32 | jima | ok |
| 18:30.43 | jima | good ol' mnscu |
| 18:30.46 | frostyfrog | youtah: Yeah, I'm tempted to remove it. |
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| 18:31.38 | aeryndunham | I really enjoyed my time at MSUM |
| 18:31.53 | jima | aeryndunham: my father-in-law was born in moorhead, coincidentally enough. |
| 18:33.43 | jima | aside from passing through on the way to fargo in 2004, i don't think i've been to moorhead since 1996. |
| 18:34.07 | jima | no wait, tower city. |
| 18:34.28 | aeryndunham | oh wow |
| 18:34.31 | aeryndunham | I was there 2004 - 2009 |
| 18:34.55 | aeryndunham | I kind of wish this wedding were up in Moorhead but obviously it's much less of a pain to get to Minneapolis |
| 18:34.56 | jima | or was it valley city...that should tell you how boring north dakota city names are, they're named after the most interesting feature nearby. |
| 18:34.59 | aeryndunham | hahaha |
| 18:35.01 | aeryndunham | yep |
| 18:35.18 | aeryndunham | Driving across ND is so boring |
| 18:35.24 | aeryndunham | my best friends were in Dickinson so I |
| 18:35.28 | aeryndunham | have done it a lot |
| 18:35.30 | jima | i do not recommend it. |
| 18:35.40 | jima | there's a good lefse place in fargo, though. |
| 18:35.50 | aeryndunham | haha I like Fargo |
| 18:36.34 | jima | they do mail order now, though, at least. :-) |
| 18:37.14 | jima | and oh, i know people in dickinson, too (although they only moved there a few years ago). |
| 18:40.47 | jima | i don't think i know anyone getting married anytime soon, else i'd worry that we run in the same circles. :-P |
| 18:41.01 | jima | last mn wedding in my circles was last weekend :-P |
| 18:46.28 | youtah | frostyfrog, lol, it didn't remove it from my side, only yours |
| 18:46.29 | youtah | oh well |
| 18:46.39 | frostyfrog | Bleh |
| 18:46.43 | frostyfrog | Oh well |
| 18:49.07 | frostyfrog | At least someone thought it was funny :) I honestly hardly know who he is. Other than someone who got an ARRL A+ award and has that joke(?) callsign. (I loved the show) |
| 18:57.47 | spangborn_ | Heh, I know someone living in Moorhead, MN now |
| 18:58.29 | youtah | ;p; |
| 18:58.31 | youtah | lol |
| 18:58.37 | youtah | hey, frostyfrog |
| 18:58.48 | youtah | if you hear of someone with an RF Sector shield... we need one |
| 18:59.18 | youtah | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E77MNPW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_a2xUzbVVJ0RRD << they're pricey |
| 18:59.18 | spangborn_ | I have one |
| 18:59.23 | spangborn_ | It's made of tin foil |
| 19:00.10 | youtah | for $300, I might just buy a sheet and bend it myself |
| 19:01.26 | frostyfrog | A little bit cheaper on their own site https://www.rfarmor.com/sector-kits.html?dir=asc&mode=list&order=name |
| 19:02.06 | spangborn_ | I've got some old sheets you can use |
| 19:02.11 | spangborn_ | Ignore the blood stains |
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| 19:05.33 | youtah | Hmmm, those ones look good frostyfrog |
| 19:06.29 | frostyfrog | 289 instead of 300, and there were 3 of them. (Same model number, I believe) Not certain if it needs to be the same ore not. |
| 19:06.40 | spangborn_ | It costs the same to ship a single as it does a USK1203X-3P (3 Pack) due to dimensional weight. |
| 19:06.47 | spangborn_ | What is "dimensional weight" |
| 19:07.02 | frostyfrog | Wait in the 1st dimension? |
| 19:07.13 | frostyfrog | s/wait/weight/ |
| 19:34.14 | jfindlay | levi: I talked with the guy who created singularity OS yesterday |
| 19:34.38 | jfindlay | he had many things to say about C for systems programming that made me think of you |
| 19:35.14 | jfindlay | also I learned that I'm preeminently underqualified to ever work for MSR |
| 19:40.46 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@fedora/jima) |
| 19:55.36 | spangborn_ | lol @ equifax |
| 19:55.45 | spangborn_ | admin/admin as credentials on one of their sites |
| 20:00.04 | jfindlay | but opensourcesoftware requires those creds |
| 20:02.46 | levi | jfindlay: Joe Duffy? |
| 20:04.52 | levi | He's the Midori guy, I dunno if he also did Singularity. |
| 20:05.15 | spangborn_ | https://www.forbes.com/sites/leemathews/2017/09/13/equifax-website-secured-by-the-worst-username-and-password-possible/#137ed013457d |
| 20:05.22 | spangborn_ | I hate forbes, but this is the article I read that in |
| 20:06.18 | levi | Yeah, I guess Singularity was different people at MSR. |
| 20:08.27 | levi | jfindlay: So why are you underqualified to work for MSR? |
| 21:23.22 | aeryndunham | ooh I got to do something techie today |
| 21:23.42 | aeryndunham | this is very exciting for me |
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| 21:59.42 | levi | Awesome, what was it? |
| 22:14.11 | *** join/#utah youtah (~youtah@96-86-219-222-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:14.14 | youtah | ~nachos |
| 22:14.15 | infobot | schweet. |
| 22:14.20 | frostyfrog | Welcome back! :D |
| 22:14.25 | youtah | lol |
| 22:14.25 | youtah | thanks |
| 22:16.40 | frostyfrog | "What do you think the chance is for you to get these tickets done by Friday?" "I think I'll have them done by the end of the day" >_> They're just easy tasks... |
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