| 06:38.02 | jlp_znc | ~youtah spangborn |
| 06:38.02 | infobot | ACTION makes bacon for spangborn |
| 11:22.03 | *** join/#utah RuShan (~RuShan@97.sub-174-208-5.myvzw.com) |
| 14:14.23 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@ip-64-134-245-252.public.wayport.net) |
| 14:26.25 | jima | s/for/from/ |
| 14:41.01 | aeryndunham | i got really excited for a second because I had an email and thought I was going to get to do something at work |
| 14:41.07 | aeryndunham | all it said was âthank you" |
| 14:44.12 | jima | ;_; |
| 14:44.32 | aeryndunham | itâs not even official company email yet |
| 14:44.36 | aeryndunham | theyâve jsut got me using my personal |
| 14:45.14 | jima | you've been there how long? |
| 14:45.29 | aeryndunham | today is day 5 |
| 14:45.54 | jima | ok...i'll admit to some onboarding fails where a user has gone a week without provisioning. |
| 14:46.01 | jima | it's unfortunate. |
| 14:46.20 | aeryndunham | oh they really dropped the ball here |
| 14:46.58 | aeryndunham | and, like, if I werenât in a relationship with someone who worked here and blabbed everything he was doing to me despite the NDA, I would have ~no idea~ what was happening here because no one even talks to me |
| 14:51.33 | aeryndunham | I would have figured out that this was the cruise industry, but thatâs about it |
| 15:16.19 | programmerq | so, 1 of my friends was in the 150 ish homes that were flooded a little over a week ago in sugarhouse. His computer tower was 100% submerged, and is now soggy toast. If anyone has any old hardware laying around that they would like to donate, that would be much appreciated. (renters insurance does not cover floods in his case) |
| 15:16.50 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (tsharpe@unaffiliated/heartsbane) |
| 15:16.54 | aeryndunham | :( wish I had something |
| 15:18.35 | *** join/#utah manithree (~blr@li4-76.members.linode.com) |
| 15:19.01 | programmerq | I'm hoping I can scrounge together something like an i5 in a tower with a discrete GPU. It does not need to be super recent or that powerful. Anything that would meet those criteria would be fantastic coming from nothing for my friend. |
| 15:33.03 | TodPunk | oh, so not /that/ old |
| 15:33.08 | TodPunk | like, you'd like it to run |
| 15:44.09 | aeryndunham | ah, I love when people sitting literally 2 feet behind me send me passive-aggressive emails instead of just telling me something in person |
| 16:01.27 | jlp_znc | aeryndunham: that's what email is for... so people don't have to talk to each other. |
| 16:02.40 | aeryndunham | lmao, this girl has been, month ago, apparently, tasked with creating the Confluence space for this department and I finally found it and she created a bunch of blank pages on May 18 and that was taht |
| 16:02.49 | aeryndunham | maybe I should justâ¦. start updating it |
| 16:37.24 | jlp_znc | go for it |
| 16:53.08 | jlp_znc | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/siemens-dhs-warn-of-low-skill-exploits-against-ct-and-pet-scanners/ <- yikes |
| 16:53.48 | jlp_znc | especially in light of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CWpZKuy-NE |
| 17:01.34 | spangborn_ | Cool animation: http://shadowandsubstance.com/2017/States/Utah/Utah.html |
| 17:06.00 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@ip-64-134-245-252.public.wayport.net) |
| 18:16.40 | programmerq | TodPunk⸠right, not ancient. A five year-old machine would definitely fit that bill, however. |
| 18:39.25 | TodPunk | only has 10 year old hardware, and hasn't run it for years) |
| 19:19.47 | aeryndunham | today has been less awful |
| 19:25.42 | romanovic | aeryndunham: that's good! what changed? |
| 19:25.53 | aeryndunham | had a couple small things to do today |
| 19:26.02 | aeryndunham | and the big boss has not spoken to me |
| 19:29.16 | aeryndunham | I still donât LIKE it |
| 19:29.22 | aeryndunham | but I havenât cried today? |
| 19:29.48 | programmerq | I don't remember- where did you end up getting a job? |
| 19:30.27 | aeryndunham | technically carnival |
| 19:30.43 | aeryndunham | for this project https://www.wired.com/2017/01/carnival-ocean-medallion-wearable/ |
| 19:33.24 | programmerq | oh interesting, that is the thing that accenture is working on |
| 19:33.30 | programmerq | I am vaguely familiar with that project |
| 19:34.41 | aeryndunham | ah, hah, yeah, Iâd say a majority of people here are Accentire |
| 19:34.44 | aeryndunham | accenture |
| 19:35.08 | programmerq | I've heard something about full-size ship replica where they can test all the systems? |
| 19:35.21 | aeryndunham | full size, no |
| 19:35.30 | aeryndunham | but yeah thereâs a ship environment |
| 19:35.49 | aeryndunham | do you work for accenture or something? |
| 19:35.54 | programmerq | yeah, i'm 99% sure that we are 1 of the vendors for that project |
| 19:36.23 | aeryndunham | what are you selling us? lol |
| 19:36.29 | programmerq | Docker |
| 19:36.47 | aeryndunham | yeah theyâre using docker swarms for all the services |
| 19:37.00 | programmerq | neat |
| 19:37.21 | programmerq | I have not personally been that involved with that project, but I have heard about it. |
| 19:37.38 | aeryndunham | I guess Iâm confused as to why we ned a vendor for docker |
| 19:37.47 | programmerq | There is an enterprise edition |
| 19:38.35 | programmerq | and generally speaking, in the open source world, if you spend $$, you get bumped on the priority for feature requests and break fix type things. |
| 19:39.18 | aeryndunham | true, yeah, hence why people pay for RHEL and stuff |
| 19:39.37 | programmerq | exactly. It boils down to the fact that enterprises want to be able to point the finger somewhere, and they will pay lots of money for that privilege. |
| 19:39.41 | aeryndunham | so does your company work with Accenture or something? |
| 19:39.52 | programmerq | I work for docker, yes |
| 19:40.34 | programmerq | https://www.docker.com/accenture - whew, it looks like that is a referenceable account after all. |
| 19:40.45 | programmerq | so yes, Accenture is our client. |
| 19:41.05 | aeryndunham | ah neat |
| 19:41.33 | aeryndunham | we have a lot of old-school networking people at Carnival and I think they still havenât quite wrapped their heads around Docker |
| 19:41.47 | aeryndunham | I actually had to explain it to someone yesterday |
| 19:42.22 | frostyfrog | o.o |
| 19:42.32 | frostyfrog | helped(?) |
| 19:42.43 | frostyfrog | in a round about way, I mean. |
| 19:42.52 | frostyfrog | goes back to abusing docker. |
| 19:42.59 | aeryndunham | haha |
| 19:43.17 | aeryndunham | I mean the person I explained it to ISNâT one of our network engineers, but she is very techie |
| 19:43.37 | programmerq | one of the lucky 10000 |
| 19:43.51 | aeryndunham | heh |
| 19:44.17 | aeryndunham | I mean, yeah, I love when I get to explain stuff, and I think Docker is very cool, but it just surprised me that people in IT didnât know really what it was |
| 19:44.24 | aeryndunham | weâre using very modern stuff, which is neat |
| 19:44.31 | frostyfrog | Oh yeah, I still don't understand why sometimes docker doesn't set up the network stack through a reboot. Sorry that I haven't pinpointed the cause of that bug yet :( |
| 19:44.37 | aeryndunham | docker and lots of NoSQL databases and kafka |
| 19:45.04 | programmerq | frostyfrog⸠It definitely should. Are you using firewalld or some other firewall manager? |
| 19:45.14 | programmerq | What version of Docker are you using? |
| 19:45.14 | frostyfrog | (still missing *insert proprietary tech here*) |
| 19:46.39 | frostyfrog | programmerq: at least on dev machines, firewalld, because CentOS >_> I'll have to play around and see if I can reproduce it on on of the "appliances" |
| 19:47.05 | programmerq | I'm deftly willing to help you troubleshoot if that would be helpful |
| 19:47.09 | programmerq | definitely* |
| 19:47.12 | programmerq | stupid voice dictation |
| 19:47.21 | aeryndunham | I would love to set up Docker on a server just for my own education but then I donât really have anything to run on it |
| 19:47.35 | programmerq | aeryndunham⸠run your blog in it |
| 19:47.42 | aeryndunham | i suppose |
| 19:47.50 | programmerq | That is always my excuse to learn a new technology |
| 19:48.03 | programmerq | or a mine craft server |
| 19:48.13 | aeryndunham | I did reinstall my CMS on Friday and swapped apache for nginx |
| 19:50.36 | aeryndunham | wouldnât even know where to START running it throuh docker |
| 19:55.26 | frostyfrog | https://blog.nimbleci.com/2015/09/27/deploying-a-ghost-blog-in-docker/ |
| 19:55.57 | aeryndunham | i really should probably have a development environment for it, especially now that itâs so easy to set up |
| 19:56.12 | aeryndunham | just does everything in production :p #YOLO or whatever |
| 19:56.16 | frostyfrog | That one goes into building a image yourself. This one uses a pre-built image: https://www.ghostforbeginners.com/deploying-ghost-with-docker/ |
| 19:56.38 | aeryndunham | I certainly wouldnât use a pre-build image, thatâs cheating :p |
| 19:56.48 | aeryndunham | (well, itâs not, but it is when the whole point is teaching yourself) |
| 19:58.09 | frostyfrog | aeryndunham: https://gfycat.com/BitterGloomyAlbatross |
| 19:58.27 | aeryndunham | lmaoooo |
| 19:58.39 | beelzebob | aeryndunham: let https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/ be your guide (if you haven't seen it before) |
| 19:59.03 | aeryndunham | letâs be real though, frostyfrog is the only person who reads my blog so fixing it in production is basically the same as fixing in development :p |
| 20:00.41 | aeryndunham | beelzebob: hahaha |
| 20:00.48 | aeryndunham | thatâs about how I feel when I read about this stuff |
| 20:04.45 | aeryndunham | But for what they are doing here a docker swarm for all the applications/microservices makes a lot of sense |
| 20:05.17 | aeryndunham | itâs proooobbaly overkill for just my puny little website |
| 20:06.20 | frostyfrog | That's what one of my servers started out as >_> |
| 20:06.48 | frostyfrog | Now it's 5 websites, a voice chat server, and a monitoring server. |
| 20:07.01 | aeryndunham | hah, if I started running all that Iâm gonna need a bigger VPS |
| 20:07.12 | frostyfrog | How big is it currently? |
| 20:07.45 | aeryndunham | itâs just the $5/month DigitalOcean VPS |
| 20:08.08 | aeryndunham | only 512MB RAM and a 20GB hard drive |
| 20:08.39 | aeryndunham | I needed to set up a swapfile just to install Ghost |
| 20:08.50 | frostyfrog | o.o |
| 20:09.37 | aeryndunham | (this was old Ghost though, I think it would have installed this time without it) |
| 20:09.44 | aeryndunham | SUCH an improvement |
| 20:09.54 | frostyfrog | $5/mo Linode gets you 1GB of ram |
| 20:10.12 | frostyfrog | Aaaanyways, yeah. I understand. |
| 20:10.31 | spangborn_ | nosupportvpshosting ftw |
| 20:10.32 | frostyfrog | I'm running a PHP site on 256 mb of ram on a VM on my work machine >_> |
| 20:12.00 | aeryndunham | there was no $5 plan on Linode when I bought this VPS, for sure |
| 20:12.11 | aeryndunham | and Iâm just too lazy to migrate it |
| 20:13.47 | romanovic | wow! I got a $20 machine on linode, I think it was 512mb. It is still running and I'm still getting charged the same amount... I wonder if they've allocated me higher resources, or are just pocketing the money? |
| 20:14.54 | romanovic | hasn't logged into his linode console for a long time, doesn't have enough time to think about it |
| 20:17.11 | programmerq | aeryndunham⸠sometimes learning how to use a prebuilt image _is_ using docker |
| 20:17.18 | frostyfrog | romanovic: I know that they had nodes upgrade a while back, but they had to shutdown the VMs and update them. |
| 20:17.45 | programmerq | That's arguably one of the strong points. The creator of software can provide an image that makes it easy to run said software |
| 20:17.48 | frostyfrog | aeryndunham: What programmerq said. It's also how *most* people seem to use it. |
| 20:18.23 | programmerq | I agree that it is worth exploring how an image is built, and how to build an image, but that does not have to be the very first thing that you do. |
| 20:20.29 | manithree | romanovic: Probably just pocketing it. Competition has forced them to offer lower-priced options, but my 11 year-old linode has some free upgrades available, but they're not automatic. |
| 20:21.10 | manithree | I think I could get 4G RAM now for $20/month |
| 20:23.13 | romanovic | docker has been really cool for dev environment consistency. I've been using mysql/postgres/mongo containers to provide local db backends at work with almost 0 setup |
| 20:24.04 | aeryndunham | yeah, it sounds like it might make life easier for them here when they go to deploy from the test ship environment to a real ship |
| 20:24.07 | romanovic | also, working on a side project with my brother. he's on windows and I'm on linux, but he set up a back-end in a container that both of us can spin up with a single command and gives us an identical experience |
| 20:30.06 | programmerq | that's the idea |
| 20:31.42 | romanovic | aeryndunham: that's cool. who will be in charge of building and deploying docker containers? I remember you saying the admins were scared to touch it or something |
| 20:31.44 | romanovic | because linux |
| 20:31.55 | aeryndunham | hahaha no one in this room obviously |
| 20:32.03 | aeryndunham | Iâm honestly not sure |
| 20:32.15 | straya | DOCKER SUCKS |
| 20:32.18 | straya | drops mic and leaves |
| 20:32.31 | aeryndunham | but yeah, one of Chrisâs biggest concerns was the how of getting the services deployed to the ships and it sounds like the fact that theyâre using Docker will really simplify that |
| 20:32.48 | aeryndunham | But BECAUSE nobody in this room understands it (they donât need to) Iâd kinda like to get myself up to speed on it quick |
| 20:32.55 | aeryndunham | provide value, perhaps |
| 20:34.23 | levi | Well, deployment *can* be simplified with Docker. Whether it actually will be simplified depends on the situation, I think. |
| 20:34.23 | aeryndunham | so maybe my activity when I get home will be setting it up |
| 20:34.40 | aeryndunham | I know itâs a complex set up here |
| 20:35.36 | levi | It's one of those things that's really simple to use in certain ways and increasingly complex as you move away from the easy path. |
| 20:35.50 | aeryndunham | yeah, sounds like it |
| 20:36.08 | aeryndunham | the ships now just use a ton of VMs |
| 20:36.57 | aeryndunham | but weâre literally replacing every single system and application the ships use, sooooo |
| 20:37.22 | levi | VMs can be a reasonable deployment solution too. |
| 20:37.28 | aeryndunham | yeah, definitely |
| 20:38.01 | aeryndunham | I think just the sheer number of separate microservices that are all in the end running on the same application is maybe what made them go with Docker |
| 20:38.08 | aeryndunham | shrugs |
| 20:39.23 | levi | I shudder at the design philosphy that leads to that situation, but it's a somewhat popular way to do things. |
| 20:41.11 | aeryndunham | I donât have the whole picture, and so I donât know what the application looks like in the end, but itâs like⦠tons of separate companies and contractors and teams of developers working on different sections of the overall application |
| 20:41.58 | aeryndunham | but I dunno |
| 20:42.39 | aeryndunham | theyâre overhauling likeâ¦. literally everything |
| 20:42.45 | levi | Yeah, this is how things work in the automotive industry too. |
| 20:43.14 | aeryndunham | many of the teams come from the same company |
| 20:43.17 | aeryndunham | tons of Accenture people |
| 20:43.39 | aeryndunham | one company I wonât name but weâre convinced they are not actually going to deliver what they say they will |
| 20:43.49 | levi | Yup. |
| 20:44.02 | aeryndunham | they do software-defined networks which SOUND cool but weâve certainly seen nothing |
| 20:44.14 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:44.39 | aeryndunham | they literally pretended to have an in-house MDM solution |
| 20:44.51 | aeryndunham | and then presented us with something open source |
| 20:44.58 | aeryndunham | not that thereâs anything wrong with open source anything |
| 20:45.05 | aeryndunham | but⦠they didnât write it, as they claimed to |
| 20:45.37 | levi | SDN does sound cool, but it's definitely a technology that's a bit in the fringe of adoption still. |
| 20:46.47 | aeryndunham | itâd be cool to see this company go from stone ages of IT to cutting edge, but obviously only if stuff actually works :p |
| 20:47.35 | programmerq | â¤ï¸ SDN |
| 20:48.33 | aeryndunham | not sure I really understand SDN but it sounds impressive |
| 20:49.04 | straya | declarative networking |
| 20:49.08 | straya | its kinda nifty actually |
| 20:50.29 | levi | We've got some Espressobin boards that are supposed to be great for SDN stacks. |
| 20:50.30 | programmerq | aeryndunham⸠it actually comes built into docker swarm mode: docker network create -d overlay my_network && docker service create --network my_network ... |
| 20:50.47 | programmerq | under the hood, it uses vxlan |
| 20:51.26 | programmerq | docker just sets up all the network name spaces and vxlan interfaces, et cetera |
| 20:51.42 | aeryndunham | has so much to learn |
| 20:53.38 | frostyfrog | aeryndunham: So do we all. |
| 20:54.01 | frostyfrog | There's just too much to learn in this world |
| 20:55.07 | aeryndunham | yup |
| 20:55.18 | aeryndunham | oooh yay they found me a divider |
| 20:55.34 | aeryndunham | so thereâs now SOMETHING between me and the guy next to me |
| 20:55.47 | frostyfrog | Do you have a desk yet? |
| 20:55.53 | aeryndunham | yes |
| 20:55.56 | frostyfrog | \o/ |
| 20:55.56 | aeryndunham | tentatively |
| 20:56.04 | frostyfrog | /o\ |
| 20:56.06 | aeryndunham | they donât think anyone else will show up and demand access to this one |
| 20:57.11 | frostyfrog | Still though, how do you not have a lot of stuff still? :( I mean, seriously... Amazon... 2-day shipping... |
| 20:57.42 | aeryndunham | haha there are lots of desks in this room, there are just people at them |
| 20:59.39 | aeryndunham | i think a better space is being built for this department in the main area, but itâs not finished yet |
| 20:59.46 | aeryndunham | so this is temporary office space |
| 21:02.19 | frostyfrog | looks up at the ceiling |
| 21:02.26 | frostyfrog | watches water drip |
| 21:03.22 | frostyfrog | Yup, looks temporary |
| 21:03.41 | frostyfrog | hides behind the corner. |
| 21:06.44 | frostyfrog | That moment when you talk like a pirate in a serious company related email and someone pipes up and asks: Could you please always talk like this? lol |
| 21:06.46 | frostyfrog | >_> |
| 21:09.33 | youtah | lol spangborn_ just saw your f/22 post |
| 21:09.42 | spangborn_ | :) |
| 21:42.11 | spangborn | Everyone is moving their software packages into containers. So much for thinking outside the box. |
| 21:44.00 | frostyfrog | I'm using containers as part of my application. I don't trust container stability with what I'm doing. |
| 21:47.48 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@170.250.131.39) |
| 22:02.21 | fadein | question: Do any of you use UML at your places of work? I ask because I'm preparing a CS course this fall, and I wonder how much I should emphasize UML |
| 22:07.34 | programmerq | not at all |
| 22:14.48 | romanovic | I also have not, in recent years. 99% of my lifetime UML usage was for school assignments in the early 2000s |
| 22:17.59 | romanovic | I mean, we still diagram, but sitting everyone down and whiteboarding ideas and application architectures seems to be preferred over sitting down and formalising sequence/class diagrams in a software program |
| 22:19.02 | TodPunk | If UML will help one learn to /think/ in CS ways, that's the point. If you want to teach someone how to do a job, you're prepping them for failure in anything that isn't automatable. So the question should be if UML helps one think in CS ways. |
| 22:19.30 | TodPunk | I'd posit it does if you're talking OOP or some specific "user story" methods, but I think those are pretty crappy and have been killed off most places for a reason |
| 22:29.44 | romanovic | Sure, I think UML was fine as a visualisation tool for teaching. I found it helpful to understand the SOLID principles |
| 22:30.12 | romanovic | something the professors could put up and point at |
| 22:33.20 | *** join/#utah keldwud (~keldwud@unaffiliated/keldwud) |
| 22:37.27 | romanovic | Also I can imagine UML being used much more for applications where you need formalised architecture at a much earlier stage, rather than iterating later on. |
| 22:39.18 | aeryndunham | huh, I'm following the basic tutorial from docs.docker.com and getting some kind of python error :/ |
| 22:40.08 | romanovic | what sort of error? |
| 22:43.04 | aeryndunham | got it, I needed to specift utf-8 even though the tutorial code didn't have that |
| 22:43.22 | aeryndunham | it told me I couldn't type a non-ascii character, and I wasn't trying to? but whatever |
| 22:47.38 | romanovic | right... |
| 22:47.53 | romanovic | suspects aeryndunham is naming containers in Mandarin |
| 22:47.57 | aeryndunham | lmao |
| 22:48.45 | aeryndunham | nah, just decided that even though nobody on the infrastructure team probably realllly needs to understand docker, someone may as well, and that someone may as well be me |
| 22:51.12 | romanovic | I can see how that would work in your favor. Isn't there some law on technology teams that the last person to touch a thing is now the owner of the thing? |
| 22:51.30 | romanovic | if nobody else is touching it, you'll own it, and then you'll be indispensable |
| 22:52.06 | levi | fadein: I'd teach enough "informal" UML so that it could be used to sketch stuff on a whiteboard. That's the mode it mostly gets used in, as far as I've seen. |
| 22:52.34 | aeryndunham | right. I mean. I'm a project coordinator. It's not an IT job. I'm just supporting the IT infrastructure team. But I'm doing everything I can to make it a tech job anyway :p |
| 23:19.10 | jlp_znc | frostyfrog: have you seen the rest of that clip? he comes along to another out-of-place tie and throws the one he has at it, knocking it out of the way. |
| 23:19.18 | jlp_znc | you should really watch the whole movie. |
| 23:19.59 | jlp_znc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlEYvZMQQ8 |
| 23:20.39 | fadein | thanks for your feedback on UML |
| 23:21.18 | fadein | it seems that your experiences line up with mine - I wanted to make sure that I wasn't the weirdo who happened to land at the only shops that didn't do much with UML |
| 23:22.28 | fadein | the only times I ever really used UML was while I was in school |