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| 00:20.41 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 01:25.47 | goozbach | morning |
| 03:50.32 | klys | :) |
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| 14:57.19 | Migs | "Corbett said he was thankful that none of the many children who walk home from school were injured in the gunfire." |
| 14:57.35 | Migs | oh yeah, that's such a relief, especially to the family members of those who were killed |
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| 16:10.51 | aeryndunham | ... KDE is doing something insane today and I can't even describe it properly to find solutions =( (and I'll have no suggestions to simply use a different DE, I *like* KDE :p ) |
| 16:16.34 | TodPunk | So you're happy with it doing this then. Understood. |
| 16:17.54 | aeryndunham | I'm not, but when literally everyone's idea of "helping" is "lol KDE", it's actually really frustrating, because it's not like I'm using some fringe desktop environment. |
| 16:25.01 | TodPunk | When you choose linux and want to do your own custom thing, you either learn every horrid little subsystem involved, or you will have eternal problems. It's not "lol KDE," that's just them being polite about really saying "RTFM, you chose this." This is also why many people don't choose linux in the first place. |
| 16:26.35 | TodPunk | You could sit in the KDE related IRC channels if you don't already. They are probably the most likely to be experiencing whatever similar thing, and you'll learn the jargon for searching about problems as you read. |
| 16:27.14 | aeryndunham | I do |
| 16:28.00 | aeryndunham | I guess I'm just frustrated because whenever I run into a bug or issue on any operating system or DE, everyone's 'solution' is "use a different DE" or "why are you using Windows" |
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| 16:28.27 | aeryndunham | Like I'm not sure what I'm "supposed" to be using at this point |
| 16:29.17 | unum | that's one of the problems linux has always had |
| 16:29.38 | unum | everyone always saying you shouldn't be using anything except what they're using |
| 16:29.55 | unum | which means you'll always have a majority of people telling you you're using the wrong thing |
| 16:33.19 | TodPunk | which, again, is not actually saying you're using the wrong thing, it's the "I don't know, because I learned all the stuff about /my/ way, and you're asking for help about a different thing I deliberately chose not to do" |
| 16:33.56 | aeryndunham | Well that's certainly not how anyone chooses to phrase it |
| 16:34.09 | TodPunk | The point is how you choose to hear it. |
| 16:34.17 | aeryndunham | it's *literally* "lol kde" or "lol windows" or "lol macos in 2017" |
| 16:34.36 | TodPunk | yes |
| 16:34.46 | TodPunk | which are valid statements |
| 16:34.47 | aeryndunham | No one says they don't know, they mock you for daring to not use i3-gaps on Arch or whatever the cool kids are going these days |
| 16:34.56 | aeryndunham | No, they arenm |
| 16:35.02 | TodPunk | you chose KDE |
| 16:35.32 | aeryndunham | So next time someone asks me about something I don't know anything about it's valid to just laugh at them for using that thing. Got it. |
| 16:35.37 | TodPunk | why not fluxbox, or bb, or lxde, or whatever else? You're just feeding the ego of anyone that didn't choose KDE when you say "KDE broke" |
| 16:35.41 | TodPunk | In reality, KDE did not break |
| 16:35.52 | TodPunk | you broke KDE. Why didn't you phrase it like /that/? |
| 16:36.00 | straya | fuck is i3-gaps |
| 16:36.01 | TodPunk | Everyone speaks to their comfort, not reality |
| 16:36.13 | aeryndunham | Except I didn't break it, because it worked fine yesterday and I turned the computer on today and it did not. |
| 16:36.38 | straya | ok great, sounds like KDE, try and describe it |
| 16:36.47 | straya | tbf,sounds like every DE or WM |
| 16:38.14 | straya | Honestly, my personal opinion on why you have trouble with KDE is because you use Neon, rather than just installing the KDE group on any other distro |
| 16:38.34 | straya | This is primarily because Neon was meant more for devs rather than end users as far as I understand |
| 16:38.41 | aeryndunham | In my experience Neon works a lot better than Kubuntu or KDE on Fedora, but it could be |
| 16:38.42 | straya | and so you're more likely to encounter *fascinating* KDE bugs |
| 16:39.02 | straya | well, Kubuntu, has a similar issue to Neon is that its a spin of a mainline thingy |
| 16:39.21 | straya | KDE on fedora works pretty darn well actually, imo |
| 16:39.29 | straya | I run it on several mission critical machines |
| 16:39.54 | straya | to be perfectly fair, I use gnome3/fedora workstation on my laptop, but DWM + FreeBSD on my desktop...so I span both ridiculous worlds |
| 16:40.02 | straya | anyhow, what is it doing? |
| 16:40.21 | aeryndunham | And honestly I understand that I'm using rolling KDE releases so I'm likely to encounter bugs but just - after I search a bunch and find nothing online and then people in Linux channels just tell me to 'gtfo noob', I'm a bit frustrated |
| 16:40.35 | straya | Thats totally understandable, most linux channels aren't very nice |
| 16:40.50 | straya | you're always welcome to hang with us #r/linux, but we don't talk about linux a lot |
| 16:41.03 | TodPunk | linux is not user friendly |
| 16:41.08 | aeryndunham | eh, all menu items and icons are opening on hover rather than click. I've got stuff set to open on click in window behavior, which is the only setting I know about which could affect this |
| 16:41.14 | TodPunk | it literally can't be, because everyone makes up their own rules |
| 16:41.27 | aeryndunham | but like for example I can't, in Konsole, click File - New Tab because it hits New Window on the way down and opens |
| 16:41.36 | aeryndunham | I already reinstalled my graphics drivers |
| 16:41.45 | straya | aeryndunham: sounds like you've got a sticking mouse |
| 16:41.53 | straya | rather than a software issue |
| 16:41.58 | straya | bang your left button a few times |
| 16:41.58 | aeryndunham | But there's a big different between 'sorry, don't know' and 'gtfo noob' |
| 16:42.11 | TodPunk | only on the receiving end |
| 16:43.15 | straya | TodPunk: I'd like to disagree. |
| 16:43.19 | TodPunk | sure |
| 16:43.40 | straya | Fundamentally they may be the same, but there is something to be said about the people who use each options emotional intelligence and respect for others. |
| 16:43.46 | TodPunk | How often, exactly, do you think someone saying "gtfo noob" is actually asking them to leave? |
| 16:43.56 | TodPunk | This is communications 101 level stuff |
| 16:44.10 | TodPunk | sender, receiver, message, packaging, etc |
| 16:44.13 | straya | It is, and maybe we shouldn't use 'fuck' so casually in our regular discussions others |
| 16:44.33 | unum | I tend to take statements literally |
| 16:44.41 | straya | is it meant htat someone is supposed to intuit that your 'get the fuck out' is not actually meant that way with the impersonality of text? |
| 16:44.51 | TodPunk | I get that there's idealism to discuss here, but I don't care about the idealism because you're not going to get anywhere when talking about All-Of-Humanity with idealism |
| 16:44.53 | unum | so if someone tells me to get out I assume they mean it |
| 16:45.01 | TodPunk | How they /should/ behave is irrelevant |
| 16:45.14 | unum | just like no means no |
| 16:45.17 | unum | get out means get out |
| 16:45.24 | aeryndunham | I don't understand why I'm just supposed to assume people don't MEAN to sound like assholes rather than just telling people not to BE assholes |
| 16:45.34 | TodPunk | "sorry, don't know" and "gtfo noob" are both simply expressing "I am dismissing your problem" |
| 16:45.50 | unum | I disagree as well |
| 16:45.56 | straya | TodPunk: yeah, great, but most people aren't fluent in your version of 'internet neckbeard' |
| 16:46.05 | unum | gtfo noob means leave and you are stupid |
| 16:46.11 | straya | I'm coming back with plenty of ad hominem, I'm sorry |
| 16:46.14 | unum | sorry, don't know means I would help you if I could |
| 16:46.21 | unum | feel free to ask an other question |
| 16:46.21 | straya | but, theres a lot to be said for your rather shallow interpretation of the internet |
| 16:46.26 | aeryndunham | When people say 'gtfo noob' maybe they don't know, but maybe they do and just won't stoop to my level or idiocy |
| 16:46.40 | TodPunk | unum: if anything, I feel "gtfo noob" carries with it connotations of insecurity on the part of the sender, but says literally nothing about the receiver |
| 16:46.49 | aeryndunham | Like, asking in IRC is *never* my first course of action. But when 30 mins of google reveals nothing.... I don't know where else to go |
| 16:47.04 | unum | the send is calling the receiver ignorant |
| 16:47.12 | straya | aeryndunham: so did you bang the mouse on the table a little? :P |
| 16:47.18 | aeryndunham | I banged! No change |
| 16:47.20 | TodPunk | but again, this is irrelevant. It's not what people /should/ say, it's what they mean when they /do/ say it |
| 16:47.21 | straya | oh lol |
| 16:47.27 | aeryndunham | it's a very new mouse |
| 16:47.28 | straya | aeryndunham: try using xkeys to see the current state of the mouse |
| 16:47.44 | straya | aeryndunham: if you hover over a link in say chrome, does it click? |
| 16:47.47 | unum | assuming people don't mean what they say will get you charged with stalking/rape/etc |
| 16:47.54 | straya | or is it solely restricted to KDE/Qt menus |
| 16:48.01 | TodPunk | If you want help with linux on IRC, you speak the parlance or you get frustrated. Dealing with the frustration is not going to happen if the method is "change everyone else's speech patterns" because it's impossible unless you replace everyone else |
| 16:48.01 | unum | if some one tells you to get out, you should get out |
| 16:48.10 | straya | TodPunk: the parlance isn't gtfo. |
| 16:48.14 | straya | talk with nicer people. |
| 16:48.17 | TodPunk | it often is |
| 16:48.28 | TodPunk | dude, we're not talking about what /I/ say. I don't say gtfo |
| 16:48.35 | straya | I know |
| 16:48.51 | straya | but you seem to be implying the entirety of linux on IRC is 'gtfo' |
| 16:48.52 | TodPunk | The problem is, if you're using certain techs by choice, you don't get nicer people |
| 16:48.53 | straya | which its not |
| 16:49.10 | TodPunk | you either RTFM and become the nicer people others can talk to, or you just learn to deal with the people that are there |
| 16:50.00 | TodPunk | This is why talking in Rails channels is terrible but Python channels is often fine, despite the techs being very similar at a base level. The people that are already rooted there define how you MUST convene if you wish to get info. |
| 16:50.08 | aeryndunham | Hmm, kde/qt stuff is doing the 'activate on hover', and other stuff WAS working but now just... clicking does nothing |
| 16:50.13 | aeryndunham | maybe it is my mouse? |
| 16:50.41 | unum | ya give a different mouse a try |
| 16:50.45 | unum | or are you on a laptop? |
| 16:50.49 | aeryndunham | I sadly do not have another mouse |
| 16:50.55 | unum | forgets other people use laptops |
| 16:51.00 | aeryndunham | No, it's a desktpo |
| 16:51.02 | unum | and don't have tons of random hardware lying aroun |
| 16:51.03 | unum | d |
| 16:51.06 | aeryndunham | but it's new, and I only have the one mouse |
| 16:51.15 | TodPunk | straya: I'd say it depends on the channel |
| 16:51.16 | straya | Definitely seems like a mouse issue rather than a software issue |
| 16:51.22 | straya | aeryndunham: steal the bf's mouse |
| 16:51.36 | TodPunk | It also, and this is a slightly different discussion, depends on the asker |
| 16:51.38 | aeryndunham | his is wireless, I don't imagine that'll go much better |
| 16:51.56 | straya | aeryndunham: just try it though, it'll help isolate the problem, wireless doesn't make a difference except in latency |
| 16:52.18 | aeryndunham | I hope it's not this mouse. I really like it! |
| 16:52.42 | TodPunk | has a mouse that sometimes double clicks when he presses the middle click button. It is... annoying |
| 16:52.47 | straya | It could just be that unit, you could RMA and buy another, but who knows |
| 16:52.51 | unum | I could agree that when seeking help on irc you should be prepared to ignore jerks with no authority |
| 16:52.55 | aeryndunham | ehh I shouldn't, he apparently has his computer half taken apart abd I don't want to touch it |
| 16:53.11 | aeryndunham | don't know what the heck he's doing |
| 16:53.25 | unum | well if his computer's half apart he's probably not using the mouse :) |
| 16:53.32 | unum | I had a friend who didn't have a case |
| 16:53.34 | straya | aeryndunham: he'll never know it was borrowed |
| 16:53.46 | unum | he just hung his motherboard on an old newspaper rack |
| 16:53.50 | aeryndunham | yeah but the part I'd need to plug in is facing against the wall so I'd need to move it |
| 16:54.09 | straya | just reach around, be careful |
| 16:54.25 | unum | I really need to work on my tutortial for openwest |
| 16:54.31 | straya | unum: whats it on? |
| 16:54.35 | unum | I can't believe I signed up for a 3 hour presentation |
| 16:54.43 | unum | straya: varios security vulnerabiliets |
| 16:54.48 | straya | oh boy |
| 16:54.57 | unum | I'm going to write some demo code for buffer over flow exploits |
| 16:55.12 | straya | thats an awful long time to keep people's attention |
| 16:55.20 | TodPunk | unum: Agreed. That's usually how I approach any group. Find the dance one needs to do with the /right/ people, be prepared for a /lot/ of noise. Noise is the most prevalent part, and I dismiss the dismissals pretty quickly, rude or not. |
| 16:55.36 | aeryndunham | dang, he had it in the usb port on the monitor |
| 16:55.40 | aeryndunham | I was like WHERE IS IT |
| 16:55.53 | unum | that makes it easy |
| 16:56.09 | unum | ya the term noise is one I can agree with |
| 16:56.20 | aeryndunham | Nope, doing the same thing |
| 16:56.28 | aeryndunham | different brands of mouse, so unlikely a mouse problem? |
| 16:56.39 | straya | ok, yeah probably not a mouse problem anymore |
| 16:57.12 | straya | aeryndunham: use xev and watch the Xevents as you move the mouse around |
| 16:57.26 | straya | see if its got a constant stream of something, or if its really activating on a hover event |
| 16:57.33 | aeryndunham | xe |
| 16:57.36 | aeryndunham | xev? |
| 16:58.04 | straya | its a tool to watch xevents |
| 16:58.32 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@170.250.131.39) |
| 16:59.24 | aeryndunham | sorry about that |
| 17:02.17 | aeryndunham | Hmm, I see things popping up in this xev when stuff is working properly, but nothing when the stuff opens on hover |
| 17:02.50 | straya | oh yes, thats right |
| 17:03.01 | straya | ok, so it must be an actual hover something |
| 17:03.04 | straya | go check your mouse options in KDE |
| 17:03.29 | spangborn_ | unum: You're a hacker? :O |
| 17:04.10 | unum | spangborn_: I'm a wannabe pentester |
| 17:04.18 | spangborn_ | Same tbh |
| 17:04.34 | straya | I used to be a real pentester. It sucked. |
| 17:04.37 | spangborn_ | Although Enve is supposedly sending me a t-shirt for doing some security research on their stuff |
| 17:04.44 | TodPunk | unum is like, all the things at his company |
| 17:04.44 | aeryndunham | The mouse settings look normal but I'll admit advanced mouse controls don't mean much to me |
| 17:04.52 | spangborn_ | That'd be the third place that has sent me a shirt for pointing out their security mess |
| 17:04.56 | TodPunk | ALL the things |
| 17:05.10 | spangborn_ | unum is the company masseuse too? |
| 17:05.17 | TodPunk | sometimes |
| 17:05.27 | spangborn_ | How many HR complaints? |
| 17:05.35 | TodPunk | to him, from him? |
| 17:05.39 | TodPunk | 4 |
| 17:05.41 | spangborn_ | lol |
| 17:06.32 | straya | aeryndunham: move your .kde to something like .kdeold |
| 17:06.35 | straya | log out, log back in |
| 17:06.38 | straya | see if it continues to happen |
| 17:06.40 | aeryndunham | ok |
| 17:06.52 | straya | if so, then its a KDE config issue, if not, then its an X/mouse/something else issue |
| 17:07.09 | aeryndunham | The .kde in the home directory, yeah? |
| 17:07.12 | straya | yes |
| 17:07.32 | spangborn_ | And if that doesn't work, install XFCE and call it a day |
| 17:07.40 | aeryndunham | nooo boo ugly xfce |
| 17:07.48 | aeryndunham | ok, logging out and in |
| 17:08.01 | spangborn_ | XFCE > KDE |
| 17:08.09 | spangborn_ | It may be ugly, but at least it works |
| 17:08.21 | straya | spangborn_: man, don't be exactly what she was so angry about earlier :P |
| 17:08.26 | straya | except I also am |
| 17:08.30 | straya | DWM > KDE |
| 17:08.37 | spangborn_ | lol wait she was angry? |
| 17:08.40 | straya | DWM > XFCE |
| 17:08.43 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@170.250.131.39) |
| 17:09.02 | straya | spangborn_: about the culture of people just saying lol KDE sucks, and saying i3 > KDE or something like that |
| 17:09.06 | straya | aeryndunham: did it fix it? |
| 17:09.09 | aeryndunham | Welp. Not a KDE config issue :p |
| 17:09.13 | spangborn_ | well KDE does suck |
| 17:09.20 | aeryndunham | No it does not! |
| 17:09.31 | spangborn_ | The only good thing about KDE is Kate |
| 17:09.32 | straya | aeryndunham: so, the mouse hover problem is still there? |
| 17:09.34 | aeryndunham | \yep |
| 17:09.36 | straya | awful |
| 17:09.39 | straya | ew |
| 17:09.43 | unum | I give terrible self massages |
| 17:09.45 | aeryndunham | it's so weird |
| 17:09.54 | straya | well, then rm -rf .kde, mv .kdeold (orwhatever) .kde |
| 17:09.55 | straya | and reboot |
| 17:10.00 | straya | with no mice plugged in |
| 17:10.06 | straya | only plug in the mice after its at the sddm login screen |
| 17:10.10 | aeryndunham | ok |
| 17:10.17 | straya | I hate debugging X |
| 17:10.24 | straya | it is literally the worst |
| 17:10.25 | spangborn_ | I'd just delete win32 and start over |
| 17:10.29 | aeryndunham | I really appreciate your help, though |
| 17:10.39 | joshh | cinnamon > xfce |
| 17:10.45 | aeryndunham | I do like Cinnamon |
| 17:10.54 | straya | has KDE started storing configs in other places than .kde? |
| 17:10.54 | spangborn_ | joshh: Yeah but you have to do the cinnamon challenge in order to rightfully use cinnamon |
| 17:10.55 | aeryndunham | I just find it doesn't work great on anything that's not Mint |
| 17:10.59 | joshh | i started using it lately and like it |
| 17:11.12 | straya | oh no, it has. |
| 17:11.14 | joshh | used xfce a long time ago before the long stretch of macbooks |
| 17:11.27 | straya | aeryndunham: wait, sorry, my logic used to conclude it is not KDE's problem wasn't valid |
| 17:11.57 | spangborn_ | Oh look what you did now |
| 17:12.25 | straya | sniffles |
| 17:12.30 | TodPunk | is using Point Linux on this laptop, and wishes it wasn't essentially a dead distro |
| 17:12.41 | TodPunk | It's an ancient laptop, which is why I chose it, but man |
| 17:13.09 | joshh | never heard of point linux |
| 17:13.16 | joshh | but why use it |
| 17:13.19 | spangborn_ | What's the point |
| 17:13.25 | spangborn_ | ^5 joshh |
| 17:14.00 | TodPunk | This is probably why it's community is dead |
| 17:14.08 | joshh | lol |
| 17:14.20 | spangborn_ | What's Linux? |
| 17:14.31 | spangborn_ | Is that like a snoopy character |
| 17:15.33 | gtmanfred | dwm >>>> lyfe |
| 17:16.05 | straya | gtmanfred: <3 |
| 17:16.06 | TodPunk | i just know that running ubuntu or mint on the thing was slow as hell |
| 17:16.07 | gtmanfred | best window manager, i had to use linux the other day, and was decently happy with wayland + sway (wayland compatible i3 clone) |
| 17:16.34 | gtmanfred | i still love the tags approach to dwm |
| 17:16.39 | TodPunk | I actually really want to replace Ubuntu on my VM with something much lighter weight, too |
| 17:16.49 | straya | FreeBSD |
| 17:16.49 | joshh | i still only use normal debian |
| 17:17.03 | TodPunk | I like newer libs |
| 17:17.32 | spangborn_ | I still run SCOLinux |
| 17:17.34 | TodPunk | doesn't want to spend the inordinate amount of time required to admin a freebsd box for anything other than a production server |
| 17:17.47 | gtmanfred | FYI, archlinux is not lighter weight, so don't go that way |
| 17:17.58 | TodPunk | I like me some BSD (though I'm an OpenBSD man, personally) but no |
| 17:18.00 | gtmanfred | it installs all the libraries/includes files with one package |
| 17:18.13 | gtmanfred | saltstack is only one package instead of being split up like on centos or debian/ubuntu |
| 17:18.21 | TodPunk | gtmanfred: I learned my lesson about hipster linux distros from Gentoo. Never again |
| 17:18.31 | gtmanfred | i mean, i love arch, and the new libraries always |
| 17:18.36 | gtmanfred | but it isn't light weight |
| 17:18.56 | TodPunk | Ran a Stage1 Tarball install on my desktop for 2 years. God that was painful. Learned a ton, but painful. |
| 17:19.06 | straya | gentoo is not a hipster distro :P |
| 17:19.10 | TodPunk | It was |
| 17:19.21 | joshh | it used be before it was cool, now it's not cool anymore |
| 17:19.25 | TodPunk | Like all hipster things, they aren't hipster after a few years |
| 17:19.42 | TodPunk | unless they never really do anything? I don't know the rules |
| 17:19.59 | TodPunk | really needs to order that Handbook for Hipsters |
| 17:20.00 | spangborn_ | I invented the rules before there were rules |
| 17:20.08 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@170.250.131.39) |
| 17:20.46 | TodPunk | But yeah, I was liking Point because it was just a debian based with newer repos. I might have to just suck it up and do debian anyway. |
| 17:20.55 | spangborn_ | Debian ftw |
| 17:21.03 | gtmanfred | i mean, debian testing is pretty stablish |
| 17:21.05 | straya | aeryndunham: shortly after you left, I concluded that my logic wasn't valid because KDE has moved to putting config files in .config now, but whats the story? |
| 17:21.06 | gtmanfred | and new |
| 17:21.14 | aeryndunham | straya: didn't help |
| 17:21.14 | gtmanfred | fedora rawhide also |
| 17:21.36 | TodPunk | Fedora is pretty good, but is terrible on old hardware for the same reasons Ubuntu is |
| 17:21.36 | joshh | using debian testing with the newest manually compiled kernel on a thinkpad, pretty great experience overall |
| 17:21.52 | gtmanfred | easy solution |
| 17:21.53 | joshh | though this laptop +linux had a lot of skylake bugs when it was new |
| 17:21.56 | gtmanfred | by a new computer each year |
| 17:21.56 | aeryndunham | took longer than expected because apparently there was an HDMI cable running from my computer to the TV and for whatever reason when I rebooted without a mouse plugged in, it decided that surely I meant to use the TV as a monitor |
| 17:21.57 | gtmanfred | !next |
| 17:22.13 | gtmanfred | lol |
| 17:22.16 | aeryndunham | is really hoping the solution here doesn't come down to 'install something else' |
| 17:22.16 | gtmanfred | that makes sense |
| 17:22.24 | spangborn_ | I hear XFCE is great |
| 17:22.25 | straya | aeryndunham: no, it must be a KDE problem now |
| 17:22.36 | straya | aeryndunham: I suggest moving all the k* config files out of .config and then trying it |
| 17:22.56 | straya | you see, this is why I hate computers |
| 17:22.57 | joshh | kde is never the correct option |
| 17:23.15 | gtmanfred | linux is just the worst |
| 17:23.19 | aeryndunham | good lord am I tired of hearing that. I cannot be the only person in the world using KDE. |
| 17:23.23 | joshh | you can wrongly choose to use it if you want and that's fine |
| 17:23.34 | straya | I use KDE. |
| 17:23.36 | joshh | but you will suffer |
| 17:23.40 | TodPunk | gtmanfred: lol |
| 17:23.40 | aeryndunham | When gnome stops being ugly, I will entertain gnome |
| 17:23.43 | straya | I don't suffer lol |
| 17:23.51 | TodPunk | This is the kids laptop. They deserve a 386. |
| 17:23.54 | straya | but KDE does suck at one thing and that is HiDPI |
| 17:24.05 | eightyeight | why entertain any desktop nonsense? |
| 17:24.05 | aeryndunham | I was happily using Unity but they had to go and mess that up for me |
| 17:24.08 | eightyeight | awesome ftw |
| 17:24.21 | gtmanfred | TodPunk: well, then you def won't be able to use arch, because they are dropping 32 bit support |
| 17:24.26 | straya | TodPunk: are you sure they don't deserve an 86k? |
| 17:24.29 | TodPunk | gtmanfred: so is everyone else |
| 17:24.33 | gtmanfred | good |
| 17:24.37 | aeryndunham | straya: There's one .kde folder inside .config, rename that one? |
| 17:24.39 | gtmanfred | i saw gentoo is dropping spac finally |
| 17:24.42 | TodPunk | straya: 68K you mean? |
| 17:24.49 | spangborn_ | KDE is too ugly for me to use |
| 17:24.51 | joshh | i like using something more heavy than awesome/i3/etc so you can easily do nice fonts and gtk themes and whatnot, and i find having a single panel with a few things useful |
| 17:24.51 | eightyeight | gentoo still exists? |
| 17:24.59 | joshh | but no desktop icons and whatnot |
| 17:25.04 | straya | TodPunk: oh yes numbers are backwards lol |
| 17:25.15 | joshh | so cinnamon is the best i've found for that kind of setup, better than xfce |
| 17:25.19 | TodPunk | never owned a 68K of his own |
| 17:25.33 | gtmanfred | if cinnamon wasn't developed by a bunch of goof balls, i might think it was useful |
| 17:25.39 | gtmanfred | but the linux mint people are insane |
| 17:25.42 | joshh | i have no clue who makes it |
| 17:25.52 | gtmanfred | it is maintained by linux mint |
| 17:25.53 | joshh | im vaguely aware that it's default on some distro called mint |
| 17:25.57 | joshh | but that's about it |
| 17:26.05 | gtmanfred | as their default DE |
| 17:26.06 | straya | TodPunk: no better way than to make your first for the kids! |
| 17:26.20 | gtmanfred | just get them a powerpc |
| 17:26.24 | gtmanfred | and install arch-ppc on it |
| 17:26.29 | eightyeight | next you'll tell me people still read ./ |
| 17:26.31 | gtmanfred | is that thing still updated... /me goes and checks |
| 17:26.34 | TodPunk | just installed linux on the old laptop for his kid to program on at work |
| 17:26.51 | TodPunk | Eventually we're doing to do our own OS on an MCU of some kind =cP |
| 17:26.52 | straya | gtmanfred: probably ppc is still a *real* architecture |
| 17:26.59 | gtmanfred | https://web.archive.org/web/20120614085009/http://archlinuxppc.org/ |
| 17:27.00 | TodPunk | but that's my pie-in-the-sky dreams showing |
| 17:27.02 | gtmanfred | looks like it died |
| 17:27.13 | gtmanfred | http://www.archlinuxppc.org/ |
| 17:27.29 | gtmanfred | This guy was super interesting |
| 17:27.29 | gtmanfred | https://pacbsd.org/ |
| 17:27.39 | spangborn_ | when did Ubuntu stop supporting PPC? |
| 17:27.44 | gtmanfred | i was in #archlinux and helped him get some of the bsd stuff compiled and packaged for pacman |
| 17:27.50 | joshh | TodPunk: how old is your kid |
| 17:27.52 | eightyeight | about the time apple stopped |
| 17:27.57 | gtmanfred | 17.04 dropped 32 bit ppc |
| 17:28.04 | TodPunk | The one currently using the laptop? 15 |
| 17:28.08 | spangborn_ | Wow, that's actually fairly recent |
| 17:28.20 | joshh | when did he/she start coding stuff |
| 17:28.21 | TodPunk | Currently doing some javascript work, with some python backend stuff |
| 17:28.32 | TodPunk | Um... well, I guess they started fiddling at 10? |
| 17:28.39 | eightyeight | actually, debian dropped it sometime last year |
| 17:28.48 | TodPunk | I usually start the kids with stuff like lightbot early though |
| 17:28.50 | eightyeight | so ubuntu just fell into line following the sid release |
| 17:28.55 | gtmanfred | yup |
| 17:29.04 | TodPunk | so at least they have some exposure to thinking in such ways |
| 17:29.29 | joshh | i got some programmable scratch based robot thing for my 7 year old |
| 17:29.39 | joshh | but it's kinda frustrating to do anything non-super lame with it |
| 17:29.39 | TodPunk | scratch is fun stuff |
| 17:29.46 | TodPunk | but SUPER limiting, yeah |
| 17:30.06 | joshh | and i wonder how he will act when he switches from that to something less kiddy |
| 17:30.21 | straya | just run linux on the little robot |
| 17:30.23 | TodPunk | I started on QBASIC, and it was awesome to have the code to things like SNAKE and GORILLA to mess with |
| 17:30.25 | straya | I'm sure someone has ported it |
| 17:30.39 | spangborn_ | TodPunk: lol same here |
| 17:30.43 | straya | (if they haven't, buy me a model and some beer and I'll port it) |
| 17:30.52 | spangborn_ | I made a fake BIOS POST screen to phish my BIOS password |
| 17:30.56 | spangborn_ | from my father |
| 17:30.57 | TodPunk | I think that's the ideal way to go. Have something to fiddle with after learning the basics so you really learn a system from something that's doing more than you know exists. |
| 17:31.16 | gtmanfred | joshh: was it the ball thing? |
| 17:31.22 | joshh | no |
| 17:31.25 | joshh | trying to google it now |
| 17:31.25 | spangborn_ | NIBBLES.BAS |
| 17:31.28 | gtmanfred | sphero |
| 17:31.28 | joshh | forgot the exact name |
| 17:31.33 | gtmanfred | that is the one that I was thinking of |
| 17:31.51 | gtmanfred | http://www.sphero.com/ |
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| 17:32.08 | spangborn_ | I've got the BB-8 Sphero |
| 17:32.10 | spangborn_ | It's pretty rad |
| 17:32.14 | gtmanfred | nice |
| 17:32.27 | aeryndunham | straya: Well. Everything is really ugly now, but it didn't fix it :p |
| 17:32.33 | aeryndunham | I'm so frustrated |
| 17:32.55 | spangborn_ | Time to dig into the source and fix it :) |
| 17:33.33 | unum | maybe move back to an old release |
| 17:33.42 | joshh | it's this thing http://www.makeblock.com/mbot-v1-1-stem-educational-robot-kit |
| 17:33.51 | aeryndunham | I can try that. 5.10.0 was pretty recent |
| 17:34.40 | straya | aeryndunham: it didn't fix it? ughhhh |
| 17:35.31 | straya | joshh: yep, there is a very hooliganish port of linux to the atmega on that thing |
| 17:35.54 | straya | that guy is a god in my book |
| 17:36.14 | straya | http://dmitry.gr/index.php?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bit |
| 17:36.28 | aeryndunham | i'm so sad |
| 17:36.44 | aeryndunham | I really don't want to need to install a different operating system |
| 17:37.36 | joshh | whats your issue/problem/ |
| 17:37.45 | straya | aeryndunham: you don't need to, installing a new OS is not the solution to every slight bug, think of this as an opportunity to learn more about the linux display and i/o stack |
| 17:37.51 | TodPunk | How easy is chrome on debian these days? |
| 17:38.00 | straya | TodPunk: stupid simple |
| 17:38.15 | joshh | i have both the google and open source chromes but use the google one |
| 17:38.19 | aeryndunham | joshh: everything is opening on hover instead of click |
| 17:38.22 | TodPunk | ah, add the repot and update, nice |
| 17:38.25 | joshh | works flawlessly |
| 17:38.41 | spangborn_ | Is your mouse broken? |
| 17:38.53 | aeryndunham | I don't think so. I tried using Chris's mouse, same issue |
| 17:39.05 | straya | did you have the other mouse plugged in at the same time? |
| 17:39.09 | TodPunk | alright, next time I need to reinstall this thing (probably in the next 6 months) I'll try debian with a lightweight DE |
| 17:39.10 | joshh | throw the computer overboard into the drink |
| 17:39.29 | joshh | then get a new one and use cinnamon |
| 17:40.14 | aeryndunham | lol this computer isn't even a month old |
| 17:41.05 | aeryndunham | straya: No |
| 17:41.12 | aeryndunham | I unplugged mine when I tested his |
| 17:49.30 | aeryndunham | Posted on the KDE forums |
| 17:49.33 | aeryndunham | figure that can't hurt |
| 17:52.28 | aeryndunham | I might as well boot into Windows; certainly not getting any work on the website I'm doing done today |
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| 18:09.24 | aeryndunham | gives up for now |
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