| 00:03.55 | fungus | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bsidesslc |
| 00:10.52 | frostyfrog | https://www.bsidesslc.org// didn't exactly reveal much :p |
| 00:20.47 | programmerq | the whole idea of bsides is that there are so many good rejected talks from $bigsecurityconferences, so they set up shop. The SLC one happens in salt lake. I spoke at it a few years ago. |
| 00:21.14 | frostyfrog | Ah, cool :) |
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| 05:52.02 | jfindlay | ~napoleon programmerq |
| 05:52.03 | infobot | ACTION makes programmerq his secret service captain |
| 05:53.11 | jfindlay | ~napoleon jlp_znc |
| 05:53.11 | infobot | ACTION makes jlp_znc buy a lotto ticket for Napoleon |
| 05:53.18 | jfindlay | ~moss |
| 05:53.18 | infobot | Hello, IT... Have you tried forcing an unexpected reboot? |
| 05:53.21 | jfindlay | ~brain |
| 05:53.21 | infobot | The game does not conclude until the woman with the eating disorder ululates. |
| 05:53.28 | jfindlay | ~pondering |
| 05:53.28 | infobot | I think so, Brain, but me and Pippi Longstocking -- I mean, what would the children look like? |
| 06:15.04 | klys | ~slashdot |
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| 15:09.21 | frostyfrog | Morning |
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| 15:16.18 | jholtom | Morn |
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| 15:55.32 | unum | morn |
| 16:02.54 | TodPunk | m |
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| 20:45.42 | laveonix | Is this channel about Utah? |
| 20:45.51 | jholtom | yes |
| 20:45.59 | jholtom | mostly people who live in Utah, but yeah |
| 20:46.12 | spangborn | Sometimes it's about computers |
| 20:46.12 | jlp_znc | or people who have once lived in utah |
| 20:46.21 | spangborn | And hams |
| 20:46.25 | spangborn | Or was it ham radio |
| 20:46.26 | spangborn | I forget |
| 20:46.26 | jlp_znc | sometimes it's about random crap, too. :-) |
| 20:47.14 | jholtom | lots of random crap |
| 20:48.13 | spangborn | TBH, Bacon Radio > Ham Radio |
| 20:50.56 | TodPunk | occasionally politics, but we're usually better than that |
| 20:51.38 | laveonix | What are the major industries in Salt Lake City? Service, Tech... |
| 20:53.13 | jholtom | well theres the silicon slopes if you choose to believe |
| 20:53.20 | jholtom | there is plenty of skiing |
| 20:53.29 | jholtom | and the church drives a large chunk of the economy in the state |
| 20:53.48 | spangborn | The Catholic Church? |
| 20:53.54 | spangborn | Protestant Church? |
| 20:54.01 | laveonix | Mormons |
| 20:54.18 | spangborn | "The church" is a stupid way to refer to the LDS church |
| 20:54.29 | jholtom | spangborn: I know, sorry |
| 20:54.39 | programmerq | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Utah - farming, tourism, mining |
| 20:54.53 | laveonix | Is the city very religious or cliquish? |
| 20:55.07 | programmerq | which city? |
| 20:55.35 | levi | SLC itself is relatively diverse compared to the rest of the state. |
| 20:55.43 | jholtom | mhm |
| 20:55.50 | laveonix | SLC |
| 20:55.56 | laveonix | levi: that doesn't say much |
| 20:56.24 | programmerq | it's certainly not very diverse when I think about places like San Francisco |
| 20:56.39 | jholtom | its better than down south in say Payson though |
| 20:57.18 | laveonix | programmerq, what about compared to Seattle? |
| 20:57.34 | programmerq | I don't know Seattle as much. I've been there once for a conference and didn't see much of the city. |
| 20:57.43 | programmerq | I work for a company out of SF and I visit there frequently. |
| 20:58.19 | laveonix | jholtom: is there a lot of Mormon nepotism or something like that? |
| 20:59.41 | jholtom | laveonix: where? |
| 20:59.49 | jholtom | Seattle is vastly more diverse than SLC |
| 21:00.01 | laveonix | in SLC |
| 21:00.07 | jholtom | easily comparable to SF in terms of diversity, and potentially more so |
| 21:00.17 | programmerq | laveonix⸠I've never encountered it at any of the places I've worked out of Utah. |
| 21:00.19 | jholtom | laveonix: maybe? |
| 21:00.28 | programmerq | last few jobs I've had with a Utah company, it never comes up. |
| 21:00.29 | jholtom | I don't really think there is |
| 21:00.34 | programmerq | nobody cares if you're LDS or not |
| 21:00.35 | jholtom | unless you work for a church subsidiary |
| 21:00.39 | jholtom | then somebody cares |
| 21:00.51 | jholtom | but, otherwise, companies don't care, its a non-issue |
| 21:01.04 | programmerq | now there can be cliques in social settings-- my neighborhood has cliques divided up this way a bit. |
| 21:01.18 | programmerq | but if it weren't an LDS thing, there'd be cliques for $otherthing |
| 21:01.44 | laveonix | ok |
| 21:02.02 | levi | Heh, from city-data.com on SLC: "Items and goods produced: petroleum products, electronics, missiles" |
| 21:02.08 | jholtom | yep |
| 21:03.15 | TodPunk | programmerq: I think SLC is probably a bit more diverse than San Fran, though the larger bay area and the larger slc area I'd agree with you on |
| 21:03.30 | TodPunk | (full disclosure: I'm from the bay area) |
| 21:03.42 | TodPunk | (but wasn't like, a fanboy of it) |
| 21:05.16 | laveonix | How do you measure diverse? |
| 21:06.03 | TodPunk | different things that people do and express both publicly and in their homes |
| 21:06.18 | TodPunk | I don't do the checklist thing that's popular in some circles |
| 21:07.00 | TodPunk | SLC has a lot of art, physical activity, political discussion, fandoms, etc |
| 21:08.01 | laveonix | any festivals? |
| 21:08.07 | jholtom | festivals being? |
| 21:08.14 | TodPunk | I like a lot of the culture festivals, like the Nihon Matsuri and the Krishna festivals like the Color run |
| 21:08.39 | jholtom | yeah, we have those, I havne't seen a lot of music festivals, we've got the sundance movie thing or whatnot |
| 21:08.49 | jholtom | we've got your share of cons |
| 21:08.55 | jlp_znc | there is Oktoberfest |
| 21:09.25 | programmerq | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco#Race_and_ethnicity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City#Demographics |
| 21:09.32 | joshh | TodPunk: im mainly from slc but live in sf now and it's much, much more diverse than slc, even considering all the tech demographics in recent years |
| 21:09.47 | joshh | and ya the larger bay area is insanely diverse |
| 21:10.05 | TodPunk | joshh: my experience with SF is that it's ruled by Tech and any diversity has to be under that umbrella |
| 21:10.18 | joshh | alameda county and queens (which is a county i guess) are considered the 2 most diverse counties in the us |
| 21:10.23 | TodPunk | If you get outside SF proper it opens up a lot more |
| 21:10.56 | joshh | tech is big here for sure, and you do see a lot of white millenials with startup hoodies, but there's still a lot of diversity to be found, especially in the non-hipster areas |
| 21:12.04 | joshh | where here are you from and when did you leave? |
| 21:12.53 | TodPunk | I lived in San Jose and left after I got married in 2001. Obviously have a lot of family and friends there, so I can't stay away, but I'm not moving back for all the money in the world. Too expensive. |
| 21:13.09 | joshh | ya, utah is basically free by comparison |
| 21:13.11 | levi | The scale of the population in SF makes the diversity that's there stand out more, too, I think. SLC has a variety of fairly strong diverse groups, but also a very prominent and fairly homogeneous majority. |
| 21:13.26 | TodPunk | aye |
| 21:13.28 | joshh | san jose/south bay currently are known for a lot of latinos and indians, not sure how it was then |
| 21:13.42 | TodPunk | It's also /more/ diverse by the popular "group skin colors together" nonsense |
| 21:14.01 | TodPunk | Chicago and Boston didn't do that, so that attitude has left its mark on me |
| 21:14.07 | joshh | utah has a reasonably sized hispanic community, and a bit of the polynesian/greek/refugee/etc stuff, but the white percentage is still about 80% last time i looked |
| 21:14.25 | TodPunk | if you're Irish in Chicago, you're definitely not the same as other "white" groups |
| 21:14.54 | joshh | tons of asians in south bay also, but they are the main "minority" everywhere here now |
| 21:15.29 | TodPunk | At the same time, Utah has a lot of foreign born folks, even if they would be "white" in the classic Californian checkbox, and they bring a lot of different culture here even if it's not brown enough to count for your average San Fransiscan |
| 21:15.55 | joshh | that's what bugs me about the people who complain about the number of "whites" in SF these days |
| 21:16.08 | programmerq | joshh⸠which company do you work for again? |
| 21:16.32 | joshh | there are at least as many whites from all over europe here as there are from "ohio" or "the midwest", which is how californians generically refer to everywhere inland |
| 21:16.56 | TodPunk | Even in the more "homogenous" utah valley, my neighbors in Orem were from Germany, two doors down were from New Zealand, across the street from Chile, down from there were Czech. Homegenous my arse |
| 21:16.58 | joshh | most white people in my neighborhood are irish |
| 21:17.31 | levi | My neighbors across the street are citizens of Scotland. |
| 21:17.36 | TodPunk | They were all LDS, I suppose, but my British coworker isn't. *shrug* |
| 21:18.23 | joshh | LDS stuff is way different here for sure |
| 21:18.39 | joshh | there are 2 buildings, one in a billionaire white area, and one in a 90% chinese area |
| 21:18.40 | TodPunk | This is essentially why I can't give a damn about anyone's ethnicity. It has never mattered. Tell me about your culture. Tell me about your ideas, what you care about. Tell me what you DO. I'll judge you based on those instead. |
| 21:18.56 | joshh | just in the city that is |
| 21:20.39 | joshh | TodPunk: that's how it is for most people in real life |
| 21:21.00 | joshh | its easy to think there is more racial tension than there is by reading blogs and news |
| 21:21.01 | TodPunk | yes |
| 21:21.13 | TodPunk | or twitter (hahahahaha) |
| 21:21.20 | joshh | ya |
| 21:21.30 | levi | Oh, Twitter. |
| 21:21.45 | TodPunk | it bleeds into everything online though |
| 21:21.51 | TodPunk | like IRC =cP |
| 21:22.02 | levi | Like 4chan. :( |
| 21:22.24 | TodPunk | 4chan will take anything they can troll each other over |
| 21:22.28 | TodPunk | tis a silly place |
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| 21:24.18 | levi | 4chan is the deep Congo of the internet. |
| 21:29.21 | levi | ... |
| 21:29.42 | levi | So, I've been writing a terminal emulator thing. |
| 21:30.24 | levi | I learned a whole lot I'd never known before about the relevant ANSI/ISO/ECMA standards and DEC hardware. |
| 21:32.15 | joshh | fun |
| 21:32.25 | programmerq | levi⸠that's honestly an exercise I've thought might be fun. |
| 21:32.28 | joshh | doing it just for kicks or for work or what? |
| 21:32.30 | levi | Having one's native character set be the international standard default character set shields one from a lot of inciental complexity. |
| 21:32.39 | levi | incidental |
| 21:32.58 | programmerq | I'd like to get my hands on an actual DEC VT100 (or similar) |
| 21:33.58 | levi | For fun, mostly, but it has potential applications as a work tool. |
| 21:34.05 | levi | I used to own a VT220. |
| 21:34.37 | levi | Got it for something like $20 at a military surplus sale. |
| 21:35.24 | jima | i used to have a vt220 too |
| 21:35.53 | levi | So, even back in the vt100 days, there was an option for graphics primitives on some of the higher-end models of each range. |
| 21:38.08 | levi | The x20 models generally didn't support anything aside from a set of line-drawing characters. |
| 21:41.26 | levi | But there was a simple graphic primitive language called ReGIS, and a bitmap graphic format (originally designed to send bitmap data to printers) called SIXEL. These let you draw on the terminal screen with the same sort of commands as normal terminal manipulation controls, or at least within the standardized framework, so a properly-implemented terminal that didn't understand them would simply discard them |
| 21:41.28 | levi | rather than displaying garbage. |
| 21:42.09 | frostyfrog | Wow, it exploded in here. Thanks laveonix ;p |
| 21:44.01 | levi | Anyway, I want to have the fancier terminal control methods (windowed scrolling, etc) of later DEC terminals along with some of the graphics capability so that I can write better debug consoles for embedded projects. |
| 21:46.04 | laveonix | :) |
| 21:47.17 | frostyfrog | (Your message was 4-5 hours after the last message xD) |
| 21:47.24 | levi | I have also found some code online that coerces an XMOS processor into generating VGA or NTSC graphics with roughly the same capabilities as the SNES. I eventually want to port my terminal to it and develop a simpler but higher-res text mode + sprites so I can have a little box that plugs into a keyboard and monitor to be either a retro-game system or fancy embedded systems terminal. |
| 21:48.08 | levi | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eU8pHpy-c |
| 21:49.51 | frostyfrog | Embedded systems terminal sounds cooler as in "tron uses *nix" cool, but the game system sounds more enjoyable. However, IMHO, that's a bit swapped, as in the terminal is cool and may make things easier to use... |
| 21:50.38 | frostyfrog | Uuuhhh, did you make that, levi? |
| 21:51.13 | levi | No, but the code for it was released. |
| 21:51.20 | frostyfrog | Ah x3 |
| 21:51.41 | levi | And I got it to build and run on my XMOS board, which doesn't yet have a VGA ouput connected. |
| 21:51.45 | frostyfrog | was more interrested in the VGA circuitry than the code, TBH. |
| 21:53.05 | levi | There's no circuitry, really. The XMOS generates the correct bit patterns and I think the D/A conversion is done by a resistor network. |
| 21:54.12 | levi | The scrolling and compositing of background tiles and sprites and the loading of scanlines into a bunch of shift registers is all done by a fairly small bit of software. |
| 21:54.14 | programmerq | laveonix⸠I'm curious why you're curious? researching the area as a potential candidate for relocating here? |
| 21:57.13 | levi | The XMOS and Parallax Propeller are cool chips to check out if you want to do high-quality software generation of complex signals. |
| 22:01.42 | levi | But there have been various projects that have successfully generated VGA signals from standard cheap PICs, ATMegas, STM32Fs, etc. They're generally just *barely* able to keep up with the ~25MHz pixel clock rate of 640x480x60Hz VGA, though. |
| 22:03.19 | levi | The XMOS can be internally clocked at about 400MHz; it executes instructions via a 100MHz clock, but its shift registers can be clocked at any division of the 400MHz clock. |
| 22:07.23 | levi | Might be difficult to keep the shift registers fed at 1024x768 pixel clock rates of 157.5MHz, but it's way easier to build a raster line in text mode, so I'm hopeful I can get that to work. |
| 22:07.45 | frostyfrog | would like some LED/LCD screen that was small and had a minimal driver board for their C.H.I.P, but I have difficulties finding one that would work for a decent price. |
| 22:12.19 | levi | How small are you thinking? |
| 22:14.36 | frostyfrog | Err... ~7" and HD? |
| 22:15.12 | frostyfrog | doesn't remember saying small. Must've been thinking of the driver board. :s |
| 22:19.41 | levi | I think all the low-cost, high-quality HD panels of that size get bought up to go in tablets. |
| 22:24.39 | levi | This is an interesting document about how the panels themselves are driven: http://www.sharpsma.com/download/Interfacing-LCD-Panels071607apdf |
| 22:30.31 | frostyfrog | Oh, that looks like it's got some good information in it :) Just looking at that first table makes me wonder how feasible it would be to build my own "driver" board. |
| 22:30.45 | levi | There's really very little difference between that and VGA or PAL, except that the analog ones require feeding the n-bit color values into a digital-to-analog converter. The VSYNC/HSYNC/Pixel clock work exactly the same. |
| 22:31.24 | frostyfrog | Oh, cool |
| 22:31.52 | levi | It's totally doable at low resolutions, depending on what you're planning on building it out of. |
| 22:32.54 | TodPunk | anxiously awaits LDUG |
| 22:33.16 | levi | At higher resolutions, you're talking about hundreds of MHz instead of ~50, which AFAIK requires more careful attention to board layout and such. |
| 22:33.30 | frostyfrog | nods. |
| 22:33.33 | frostyfrog | Makes sense. |
| 22:33.35 | programmerq | oh yeah, I forgot LDUG was tonight. |
| 22:33.49 | programmerq | I could do a practice run of my presentation on Thursday. |
| 22:33.54 | frostyfrog | Hmm... Crap. Forgot to RSVP to that >_> |
| 22:33.59 | programmerq | not sure if it's that sort of meetup |
| 22:34.26 | frostyfrog | Well, it was at Adobe. Last time I went, I had to get a nametag from the front desk. |
| 22:34.37 | levi | Here's a VGA signal generator built entirely out of TTL logic ICs: http://www.pyroelectro.com/projects/masochists_video_card/ |
| 22:34.56 | levi | programmerq: You can totally just show up; you'll just have to wait slightly longer for a nametag. |
| 22:36.49 | frostyfrog | Huh, The Transistor has a meetup page now... |
| 22:36.54 | levi | I think 1920x1080 resolution would require just under a 200MHz clock. |
| 22:37.08 | frostyfrog | levi: Eep! :o |
| 22:37.24 | programmerq | frostyfrog⸠it has for a long time. it was/is shared with 801labs, but I guess they want to split it back out, so d3c4f made another meetup page. |
| 22:37.32 | levi | frostyfrog: It had a meetup page ages ago. |
| 22:37.43 | eightyeight | https://twitter.com/DungeonsDonald |
| 22:38.21 | levi | I briefly ran the programming language night at the Transistor, and most of the people who came were random 1st timers from the meetup page. |
| 22:38.50 | frostyfrog | https://www.meetup.com/utahtransistor/ "This new Meetup just started: theTransistor 3 days ago" |
| 22:39.52 | programmerq | the old one was https://www.meetup.com/thetransistor |
| 22:39.53 | d3c4f | programmerq: meetup page WAS thetransistor page. Then was had SLC Transistor, which became 801 Labs (which we shared the meetup group with). We handed the meetup group over to 801 Labs about a year ago now. We were sharing, but we decided to set up our own again as 801 Labs is pretty active |
| 22:40.05 | programmerq | yeah |
| 22:40.46 | d3c4f | I'm working on reclaiming the /thetransistor url. It's a PITA :/ |
| 22:40.54 | frostyfrog | d3c4f: interesting |
| 22:46.11 | frostyfrog | Thank you for the educational info on LCD screens, levi :D |
| 22:48.34 | levi | It looks like the allwinner R8 has a built-in LCD driver, too. So not a lot of circuitry would be required. |
| 22:49.34 | frostyfrog | Shouldn't be, though it may depend on the resolution and the clock speed on the board, as you mentioned earlier |
| 22:51.39 | levi | It's almost certainly up to HD resolutions. |
| 22:54.46 | frostyfrog | https://bbs.nextthing.co/t/is-chip-pro-headless-only/11207 There's also the fact that I'd be stuck with the standard chip only, and wouldn't be able to use it with the chip pro. |
| 23:13.40 | levi | There aren't any video lines brought out at all on the chip pro. |
| 23:22.16 | levi | I'm not sure why, as a hobbyist, you'd want the Chip Pro over the Chip. |
| 23:23.36 | levi | In this case, 'Pro' doesn't mean better, it means smaller and easier to build into a professionally-manufactured product. |