| 00:07.46 | aeryndunham | Well they told me as of now they can get me out Jan 29 and I asked if it could be earlier |
| 00:08.01 | aeryndunham | it's hard to give your own notice when you need them to fly you home |
| 00:08.10 | romanovic | yeah |
| 00:12.55 | TodPunk | how do you not know if you resigned? |
| 00:13.21 | aeryndunham | I told them I won't be doing another contract |
| 00:13.25 | TodPunk | oh |
| 00:13.28 | aeryndunham | I'm not really allowed to just... peace out |
| 00:13.45 | TodPunk | well, you are if you want to black-list yourself in that whole industry |
| 00:14.15 | aeryndunham | that's true |
| 00:45.05 | spangborn | Wow https://www.facebook.com/votederekkitchen/photos/a.1553593738229336.1073741831.1507117226210321/1803957249859649/?type=3&permPage=1 |
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| 18:03.57 | TodPunk | eightyeight: to be fair, I have some limited qualifications in this area most don't. I have engineered two separate studio approved DRM schemes, and implemented several crypto algorithms from scratch for embedded hardware. |
| 18:04.49 | eightyeight | GPG has been audited, bug tested, and thoroughly used. it's quality software |
| 18:04.52 | TodPunk | So while I get what you're saying, you don't really give a damn about the actual point that you just made: crypto IS hard, which is why it's useless. PGP is the antithesis of useful crypto, and it's not going to get any better by saying nobody else should implement things. |
| 18:04.59 | eightyeight | sure, it has a learning curve, but most of that is teh WoT |
| 18:05.05 | eightyeight | hardly difficult to "gpg -e file" |
| 18:05.26 | TodPunk | The web of trust doesn't even exist. It's more like the fuzzy tennis ball of trust that you have to throw out after a few matches. |
| 18:05.26 | eightyeight | "gpg -d file" |
| 18:05.34 | eightyeight | your script isn't going to get any easier than that |
| 18:05.57 | TodPunk | sure, after you've setup gpg, figured out what the hell you need to backup to future proof it so your backups aren't useless, etc, etc, etc |
| 18:06.04 | TodPunk | and this is if you're /me |
| 18:06.19 | TodPunk | If you're the accounting department or my grandmother, ugh |
| 18:06.29 | eightyeight | when i generated my key, on windows, in 2004, i didn't know what i was doing |
| 18:06.40 | eightyeight | yet i had no problems with WinPT generating the key for me |
| 18:07.01 | TodPunk | I didn't know you were my grandmother in 2004 and it was just her attitude holding her back all this time... |
| 18:07.05 | eightyeight | your grandma doesn't have to use the commandline on LFS |
| 18:07.49 | eightyeight | hell, apple users are using GPG with GPGTools |
| 18:07.53 | eightyeight | if apple users can do it... |
| 18:07.55 | eightyeight | ducks |
| 18:08.03 | spangborn | blinks |
| 18:08.04 | TodPunk | but hey, have your superiority feeling over how strong your crypto is or whatever. You and the 5 others that will use GPG can have a party with encrypted cake! |
| 18:08.19 | spangborn | I don't use GPG |
| 18:08.23 | eightyeight | there are almost 5 million gpg keys, and rising |
| 18:08.26 | spangborn | I use base64 |
| 18:08.31 | eightyeight | 400k added every year |
| 18:08.32 | spangborn | It's faster |
| 18:08.34 | TodPunk | spangborn: nobody does, even those that do, it turns out |
| 18:08.52 | eightyeight | 10k added to the pgp strong set every year |
| 18:09.07 | eightyeight | i just don't buy that it's as difficult as everyone seems to make it out to be |
| 18:09.48 | TodPunk | you just told me to use a commandline to encrypt a file |
| 18:09.50 | TodPunk | you already lost |
| 18:10.01 | eightyeight | o.0 |
| 18:10.08 | TodPunk | /I/ am not the one that needs to use these tools |
| 18:10.15 | eightyeight | i'm not saying you are |
| 18:10.37 | TodPunk | yes, but you're not accepting that /grandma/ is |
| 18:10.54 | TodPunk | If it can't be made easy enough for an entire community to understand and use, it's useless |
| 18:11.05 | eightyeight | grandma can use the commandline, if she feels so inclined. or she can use the wealth of point-and-click gui tools |
| 18:11.09 | eightyeight | or she can ignore it |
| 18:11.14 | TodPunk | hell, github users can't figure this stuff out and they're /developing/ the next set of tools |
| 18:11.47 | TodPunk | and the best answer you have to this is "crypto is hard, don't roll your own, even though you can't figure out gpg, I'm sure it's easy because I can't see how you think it's hard" |
| 18:12.01 | eightyeight | i've never claimed you can't figure out gpg |
| 18:12.04 | eightyeight | i've claimed you can |
| 18:12.23 | TodPunk | I've claimed that we've already got mounting evidence that this is not so, because most people can't |
| 18:12.36 | TodPunk | and your pithy commandline response is just swatting them away as if their opinions don't matter |
| 18:12.51 | TodPunk | some tolerance paragon you turned out to be, eh? |
| 18:12.53 | eightyeight | you're completely misunderstanding then |
| 18:13.16 | TodPunk | I'm sure I am |
| 18:13.45 | spangborn | One of these days, I'll have the courage to say hi to pashdown when I see him in person |
| 18:13.55 | TodPunk | spangborn: you should, he's delightful |
| 18:14.20 | spangborn | He appears to enjoy Greek food, but that's probably just because of the proximity to his office |
| 18:15.00 | eightyeight | TodPunk: you're suggesting people should give up on PGP and roll their own crypto |
| 18:15.07 | TodPunk | I am not |
| 18:15.08 | eightyeight | TodPunk: i'm saying that's dangerous and careless. |
| 18:15.37 | eightyeight | you suggested self-written scripts are better than GPG |
| 18:15.55 | TodPunk | I gave that as an option to a question you asked, which I would not mind taking as I'm qualified to do so, mind you, and you built that into being my entire point |
| 18:16.05 | TodPunk | In my case, they ARE better |
| 18:16.20 | TodPunk | for the simple use of encrypting a file locally |
| 18:16.50 | eightyeight | so you know about chosen ciphertext attacks? timing attacks? side-channels? authenticated encryption? |
| 18:17.28 | eightyeight | nonce misuse. rekeying. bit-flipping. |
| 18:17.29 | TodPunk | Are these the ones being employed on your tax return PDFs? I can't keep track |
| 18:17.48 | eightyeight | if you're going to encrypt your sensitive data, you better do it right |
| 18:18.26 | spangborn | Mine are encrypted, I serve them on my website over HTTPS |
| 18:18.49 | eightyeight | i'm referring to encrypted at rest |
| 18:18.54 | spangborn | Haha I know |
| 18:18.58 | spangborn | I'm just being an idiot |
| 18:20.09 | TodPunk | spangborn: are you using letsencrypt? |
| 18:20.23 | spangborn | I am, actually. |
| 18:20.46 | spangborn | Although I started using it during the beta period and I should probably update the client |
| 18:20.57 | spangborn | So that I'm not just using the git repo for the client |
| 18:21.25 | TodPunk | yesssss |
| 18:21.26 | spangborn | My nginx configuration doesn't appear to really like their automated renewal, either |
| 18:21.42 | spangborn | I'm planning on rebuilding this server at some point so I'll probably do it then |
| 18:22.20 | TodPunk | yeah, their tooling is improving to handle more than one use case, but really slowly in my opinion |
| 18:22.20 | spangborn | It is nice that I can generate certs for all of the domains pointed at my box in one command |
| 18:22.55 | spangborn | I admittedly was just using self-signed certs previously, but that was just for protecting the admin side of WordPress |
| 18:23.29 | spangborn | I wonder if the bots that are bruteforcing WordPress installs verify self-signed certs |
| 18:23.43 | spangborn | Anecdotally, I seem to see more bruteforce attacks now that I switched to LetsEncrypt |
| 18:23.54 | spangborn | So maybe they see an invalid cert and bail? |
| 18:24.03 | TodPunk | could be |
| 18:24.13 | spangborn | shrugs |
| 18:24.16 | TodPunk | self-signed certs are the bane of many an automated workflow |
| 18:24.17 | spangborn | Something I never thought about until now |
| 18:24.41 | spangborn | I'm actually chatting in IRC over a web-based IRC client protected by a LetsEncrypt cert :) |
| 18:25.50 | eightyeight | i wish reloading certs in weechat was easier |
| 18:26.05 | spangborn | https://thelounge.github.io/ |
| 18:26.19 | eightyeight | my lets encrypt cert is auto-renewed, but i'll be damned if i can get it reloaded without a headache in weechat |
| 18:26.23 | TodPunk | npm.... |
| 18:26.25 | spangborn | It's missing some IRC client functionality and has some bugs, but it's pretty cool |
| 18:26.34 | spangborn | Haha yes, it's written in JS |
| 19:49.57 | jholtom | Have they finally improved logging support? |
| 19:50.33 | spangborn | I don't believe so, but someone is actively working on it |
| 19:54.21 | spangborn | I don't often dig through IRC logs though, so that's not a huge priority for me |
| 19:54.53 | jholtom | I just never let it die and ctrl^f through the memory for iy |
| 19:58.26 | spangborn | If I do need something, I'll SSH into the box and dig through ZNC logs |
| 19:58.51 | spangborn | grep is more useful anyway |
| 20:19.29 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 20:27.29 | aeryndunham | Good afternoon! |
| 20:28.27 | spangborn | hola |
| 20:30.05 | aeryndunham | So my shoreside boss sent us all an email wishing us "quality time with family and rejuvenation" - I don't think he knows who he sent that to :p |
| 20:30.19 | spangborn | Well Chris is basically family at this point |
| 20:30.22 | spangborn | ;p |
| 20:30.37 | aeryndunham | That is true but we certainly don't have any time off for rejuvenation :p |
| 21:01.52 | aeryndunham | Oh wow how was that only an hour since I've been here. |
| 21:02.34 | TodPunk | time flies when you're having fun |
| 21:02.51 | aeryndunham | Usually time goes really fast when I'm busy, which I have been today |
| 21:02.54 | spangborn | I'd assume it does the opposite when you're not then |
| 21:03.26 | aeryndunham | yes |
| 21:29.30 | eightyeight | anyone here into locksport? if so, would you have interest in attending a toool chapter? say, monthly? |
| 23:06.21 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 23:11.30 | aeryndunham | Evening |
| 23:12.21 | TodPunk | welcome back |
| 23:12.40 | aeryndunham | went for dinner and made a quick stop by the crew bar |
| 23:15.08 | TodPunk | cheap booze, or free, or expensive? |
| 23:15.17 | aeryndunham | Also I've been invited to a party and the urge to put up a "brb" sign is overwhelming |
| 23:15.19 | aeryndunham | cheap |
| 23:15.24 | TodPunk | yesssss |
| 23:15.26 | TodPunk | on both counts |
| 23:18.19 | aeryndunham | Although I currently have every computer here in use |
| 23:20.13 | aeryndunham | but like for real |
| 23:20.28 | aeryndunham | I have been sooooo overhwelmed and stressed at work, I wanna go to a party |
| 23:21.56 | jholtom | Go party |
| 23:22.05 | TodPunk | Be responsible, do not go party |
| 23:22.27 | TodPunk | burning bridges == usually ill thought out |
| 23:22.28 | aeryndunham | are you guys being the little cartoon angel and devil on my shoulders or something |
| 23:22.43 | TodPunk | >.> maybe |
| 23:22.46 | aeryndunham | the customer relations manager was the person who suggested I put up a sign :p |
| 23:31.59 | keldwud | how can we sleep when our beds are burning? |
| 23:52.47 | aeryndunham | ok there's a Muslim family onboard and all the girls are wearing candy cane striped hijabs, they are fabulous |