| 04:49.21 | spangborn | https://instagram.com/p/BOL5BLyDx97It16whjXQ965oXCAMRkxDnBM_K40/ |
| 04:49.26 | spangborn | Just normal things. |
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| 15:03.12 | *** join/#utah kim27 (~kim27@unaffiliated/kim27) |
| 16:06.14 | frostyfrog | x3 That's one lit up van |
| 16:06.40 | frostyfrog | Also, cool fenced off Christmass tree, spangborn. :) |
| 16:07.12 | spangborn | frostyfrog: Haha, that's to keep the dogs from attacking it |
| 16:08.09 | frostyfrog | My cat used to attack our tree, then I got mad at her a bunch for it. Now she find's it a comfy place to sleep when my parents' bed is unavailable. |
| 16:08.26 | frostyfrog | (the tree skirt, that is_ |
| 16:09.16 | spangborn | Cats seem to enjoy that. |
| 16:09.29 | spangborn | The older of my two dogs used to chew on the fake branches |
| 16:10.00 | spangborn | I haven't trusted the younger one enough to have unfettered access |
| 16:13.10 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 16:27.55 | frostyfrog | understandable |
| 16:30.54 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:34.43 | aeryndunham | How is everyone today |
| 16:36.26 | RyanE | speaking for myself, good. |
| 16:36.52 | frostyfrog | Doing well. Feeling much better compared to friday :3 |
| 16:37.07 | frostyfrog | Nice letter, btw. aeryndunham. :3 |
| 16:40.17 | spangborn | Well it's Monday, but things are not on fire so it's all good |
| 16:48.27 | Migs | thankfully |
| 16:48.53 | spangborn | starts jima on fire |
| 16:49.05 | spangborn | puts jima out before any damage is done |
| 16:50.45 | aeryndunham | frostyfrog: Letter? On my blog? |
| 17:01.53 | frostyfrog | aeryndunham: I was late to the conversation, but that letter with the flowers that someone sent to you the other day. |
| 17:02.05 | aeryndunham | frostyfrog: aaaah |
| 17:02.12 | frostyfrog | didn't know that you had a blog. :p |
| 17:02.13 | aeryndunham | yes |
| 17:02.14 | aeryndunham | it was very nuce |
| 17:02.59 | aeryndunham | Didn't imagine that anyone did know, hence my confusion ;) But the last entry was called "an open letter to..." |
| 17:03.34 | RyanE | usually they're "an open letter to people who will never read this open letter". |
| 17:03.42 | frostyfrog | xD |
| 17:05.55 | frostyfrog | Huh, it's about the same thing #SorryNotSorry |
| 17:06.06 | frostyfrog | goes back to work. |
| 17:06.12 | aeryndunham | hahaha yeah |
| 17:06.21 | aeryndunham | It was actually ABOUT the letter I got from the passenger |
| 17:06.32 | aeryndunham | "an open letter to the woman who sent me a flower" |
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| 17:06.54 | frostyfrog | Google search -> tumblr repost -> tumblr account -> twitter account -> blog |
| 17:06.57 | jsmith | waves |
| 17:07.04 | frostyfrog | waves back. |
| 17:07.13 | aeryndunham | lol |
| 17:07.21 | aeryndunham | Oh my poor neglected tumblr |
| 17:07.31 | aeryndunham | That was where all my TV fangirling went :p |
| 17:09.27 | spangborn | My TV fangirling goes to /dev/null |
| 17:12.02 | RyanE | mine goes to Usenet, alt.fan.adolescent.fantasy.STTNG. |
| 17:13.33 | frostyfrog | has heard of usenet, but has never ever visited. |
| 17:14.26 | RyanE | it was, of course, a joke. |
| 17:14.48 | RyanE | but I used to participate in comp.home.automation back in the day, say 18 years ago. |
| 17:14.48 | frostyfrog | I'm too young for the usenet age xD |
| 17:15.08 | frostyfrog | 18 years ago... I was 4. x3 |
| 17:16.02 | RyanE | ok, 15 years ago. |
| 17:16.03 | RyanE | :) |
| 17:16.42 | spangborn | Dang I feel old now |
| 17:17.16 | RyanE | I get that a lot now. :) |
| 17:17.52 | frostyfrog | You're still young compared to those who are 90+ years old x3 |
| 17:20.36 | frostyfrog | To stop myself from "feeling old", I always choose to think, "I am a child of God"... Man, I must be young if I can still be a child of God. He must be the oldest person alive! |
| 17:20.42 | frostyfrog | Time is relative. |
| 17:22.50 | RyanE | I'm getting older, but I'm still immature, so I've got that going for me. |
| 17:26.53 | frostyfrog | Sadly, I had to try to get myself to be somewhat immature. At about 6-7th grade, I acted quite mature. |
| 17:27.58 | frostyfrog | My english teacher wasn't quite to happy with me reading programming books or college level text during "reading time" instead of some fantasy or fiction books. xD |
| 17:29.17 | RyanE | I've got a 15-year old who you would think is an 80 year old grandmother. same temperament. |
| 17:29.39 | RyanE | mature and mellow as the day is long. |
| 17:29.48 | RyanE | "oh, dad." is I believe her most common expression. |
| 17:31.30 | SunSparc | Getting old is over-rated. |
| 17:32.58 | SunSparc | ~lart getting old |
| 17:32.58 | infobot | steals getting old's mojo |
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| 17:39.09 | unum | http://www.redgulls.com/2016/12/16/byu-poz-degenerate-university/ |
| 17:39.17 | unum | satire or true believer? |
| 17:40.55 | Migs | https://www.facebook.com/CircaLaughs/videos/1175065635862938/ |
| 17:40.57 | Migs | Lost it at the ending |
| 17:43.15 | unum | they forgot the feathers |
| 17:43.23 | *** join/#utah ygt-yoran (~ygt-yoran@2601:680:4000:53bf:224:1dff:fe17:78fa) |
| 17:43.39 | unum | it seems like the more we learn the more we realize they weren't lizards, they ere ostritches |
| 17:44.15 | Migs | Jurassic World 5 will be just a bunch of giant ostriches vs giant emus |
| 17:45.51 | unum | awesome |
| 17:46.06 | unum | the sharknado people should get in on this |
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| 17:57.00 | SunSparc | Must resist.... must not feed trolls.... |
| 17:57.48 | unum | dinosaur trolls or sjw trolls |
| 17:57.50 | SunSparc | closes the Red Gulls article without commenting. |
| 17:57.57 | SunSparc | Whew! That was close. |
| 17:58.06 | unum | ya that's for the best |
| 17:58.16 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:58.17 | unum | I'm going to tell myself it's satire :) |
| 17:58.39 | SunSparc | I am going to tell myself that people are ignorant. |
| 17:59.23 | SunSparc | says ignorantly... |
| 17:59.48 | unum | I got the link from a sjw byu alumni |
| 18:00.10 | SunSparc | ~sjw |
| 18:00.30 | spangborn | I'm clearly not as festive as this guy. https://instagram.com/p/BOL-0gHjsOaYxnDHe3hMrqnCaz0BOnNoERwREI0/ |
| 18:00.34 | SunSparc | infobot: sjw is social justice warrior |
| 18:00.34 | infobot | SunSparc: okay |
| 18:01.02 | SunSparc | spangborn: That is one party bus!!! |
| 18:01.13 | spangborn | I want to know how he did it |
| 18:01.21 | spangborn | So the next time I see him in my neighborhood, I'm asking |
| 18:01.24 | spangborn | (He lives down the street) |
| 18:01.56 | SunSparc | Yeah, that is pretty cool. |
| 18:02.34 | spangborn | I looked at it, and it appears to be a string of lights |
| 18:02.45 | spangborn | So clearly the software has to know which lights line up vertically with each other |
| 18:04.24 | SunSparc | So many people associate the rainbow with gay rights. I associate it with the science of refracting light, a beautiful phenomena of nature. And if I must get religious about it, I associate it to the promise made to Noah about not flooding the world again. |
| 18:05.00 | SunSparc | spangborn: I wonder if he used those mesh lights. |
| 18:05.19 | spangborn | I didn't see anything connecting the rows vertically |
| 18:05.24 | spangborn | But that was initially my thought |
| 18:05.29 | SunSparc | But I doubt those would have the control needed. |
| 18:05.34 | spangborn | Like wrapping a blanket around the bus |
| 18:05.43 | SunSparc | Yeah, each light needs to be controlled individually. |
| 18:05.45 | spangborn | I want to be friends with this guy |
| 18:05.49 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:05.51 | spangborn | Because he seems like fun |
| 18:06.02 | SunSparc | Well yeah, with a bus like that. |
| 18:06.03 | spangborn | VW Bus and computer controlled lights? I'm sold |
| 18:06.51 | spangborn | I just hope he doesn't do ham radio |
| 18:06.57 | SunSparc | lol |
| 18:07.02 | spangborn | Because if he does, then I'll have to let youtah befriend him instead |
| 18:07.28 | SunSparc | spangborn: Or you could just take the test and get your ham license. |
| 18:07.35 | SunSparc | did |
| 18:07.42 | spangborn | That would imply I'm even slightly interested ;p |
| 18:08.00 | SunSparc | Well, you are interested in electronics. |
| 18:08.15 | SunSparc | Or at least the programming aspect of the VW lights. |
| 18:08.36 | unum | that reminds me I need to renew my cert certification |
| 18:09.36 | SunSparc | I have not participated in any cert activities, but they sound interesting. |
| 18:10.03 | *** join/#utah ksb (~ksb@serenity.averageurl.com) |
| 18:16.25 | unum | they have a ham group |
| 18:16.38 | unum | I was thinking of getting involved in cert again and getting my ham license |
| 18:17.00 | *** join/#utah keldwud (ce47473f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.71.71.63) |
| 18:17.10 | keldwud | sup guys |
| 18:18.48 | unum | sup |
| 18:19.03 | keldwud | so I've been getting overwhelmed with project management crap at work. Can anybody recommend some training resources in the area that could help somebody like myself? preferably project management for engineers and something similar to agile methods. |
| 18:19.46 | unum | there was a good presentation at uphpu a while back. I wonder if I can find a recording |
| 18:20.38 | unum | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzbh4_0Ffic |
| 18:20.43 | SunSparc | keldwud: What is overwhelming you? |
| 18:20.48 | unum | that's not the one I was thinking of, but I bet it's good |
| 18:21.00 | unum | SunSparc: good idea, get more details |
| 18:21.07 | unum | keldwud: are you running a team now? |
| 18:21.36 | unum | I recommend installing trac and refusing to do implement things until they've been submitted through trac |
| 18:21.52 | unum | took me years to get people using trac because I never enforced it |
| 18:23.00 | keldwud | SunSparc: just that I spend 3 - 4 hours per day managing workflows and communications and all that |
| 18:23.04 | SunSparc | Issue tracking can certainly be helpful. Trac is one of many tools out there that can be leveraged for this purpose. |
| 18:23.24 | SunSparc | keldwud: How may people are you managing? |
| 18:23.45 | keldwud | and I'm not running a team, it's just that I think because I am the only person in the organization with domain knowledge of a product that is required to be implemented in every new project, I get left holding the bag |
| 18:23.50 | keldwud | lol |
| 18:23.51 | SunSparc | And is PM your job? |
| 18:24.03 | keldwud | I just want to make myself more efficient at it so that I can spend less time on it |
| 18:24.11 | keldwud | I'm a linux engineer working in a devops shop |
| 18:24.20 | SunSparc | Ah |
| 18:24.29 | unum | I'm a one person team as well |
| 18:24.41 | unum | enforcing trac is something I should have done sooner |
| 18:24.51 | unum | I actually have two systems now |
| 18:25.00 | keldwud | I have other people on my team. We were just denied hiring, specifically, a PM to fill an open spot. |
| 18:25.07 | unum | ah |
| 18:25.20 | keldwud | so I figured I'd take it on myself to get better at it so I can spend less time on it |
| 18:26.50 | keldwud | we're using target process here. maybe I should just dig through the documentation and learn the product better. that could maybe help reduce time spent there. |
| 18:27.03 | romanovic | keldwud: it's more difficult when you're having to fill PM roles in addition to engineering. I feel like we have a really good workflow where I work, agile-wise. We have a Product Owner (PM) who is our buffer against management and other shareholders who want things done |
| 18:28.44 | keldwud | yeah, I'm just trying to find a better balance |
| 18:29.25 | romanovic | I spend 0 minutes per day explaining things or justifying from a business perspective. the PO is our go-between and represents the customer's interest. The PO has a list of things that need to be done. We team members determine how things get done, and estimate how much effort. The PO can reprioritise our backlog based on our estimates |
| 18:29.37 | keldwud | romanovic: omg I'm so jealous |
| 18:29.59 | SunSparc | keldwud: I recently read an interesting article from the Basecamp guys: https://m.signalvnoise.com/how-we-set-up-our-work-cbce3d3d9cae#.mw8jdnu7l |
| 18:30.36 | romanovic | The PO, managers, and C-level execs do not give us immovable deadlines to get things done. They can 1. reprioritise the backlog, or 2. change the scope of what they want done, but nothing else |
| 18:31.35 | SunSparc | Althought this does not directly related to project management, you might consider some Arbinger traning for yourself or even for others in the company: https://arbinger.com/ |
| 18:33.02 | eightyeight | http://www.rsarchive.org/RelArtic/Marinelli/ |
| 18:33.18 | eightyeight | TL;DR- the heart is not a pressure-producing pump. it is reacting to, not producing, the circulatory movement |
| 18:33.27 | keldwud | as far as personal productivity goes, I think I've got a pretty great method of focus and prioritization and time tracking, but when it comes to having to work with all the various departments in my org, it becomes a whole different story |
| 18:33.39 | keldwud | what is the Arbinger training like? |
| 18:33.39 | eightyeight | "the momentum transfer occurring between the heart and blood is in phase; the heart must somehow sense the motion of the blood and respond to it in turn with a spiraling impulses at the same velocities as the blood, thereby combining blood and heart momenta." |
| 18:33.55 | eightyeight | (what you end up reading while feeding a 7-week old in the middle of the night) |
| 18:34.20 | keldwud | and yeah, that looks like what I was looking for. Something at a higher level and more abstract rather than a focus on tools. |
| 18:35.12 | keldwud | it looks a bit 'cultish', though. like one of those resources that MLM companies use. |
| 18:35.47 | keldwud | the description is full of buzz words :( |
| 18:38.02 | keldwud | romanovic: was your organization always like that or did the company have to evolve to that point? |
| 18:38.16 | keldwud | and if evolution, what were some of the steps taken that got it there? |
| 18:38.19 | SunSparc | eightyeight: That is fascinating |
| 18:40.54 | SunSparc | keldwud: Here is an introduction to Arbinger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyhOT3jCcR4 |
| 18:41.54 | SunSparc | keldwud: If that looks interesting, check out some of their YouTube videos https://www.youtube.com/user/arbingerofficial |
| 18:42.09 | SunSparc | And I highly recommend this book to everyone and anyone: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/1576759776 |
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| 18:47.17 | keldwud | romanovic: how would you say the Basecamp method SunSparc linked above compares and contrasts with how your shop does things? |
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| 19:41.42 | frostyfrog | mmmmm, sandwiches from the uvu cafeteria are delish :3 |
| 19:43.57 | frostyfrog | s/uvu/canyon park tech center/ |
| 20:52.27 | jholtom | Eh, leadership and self deception was a very hit or miss book imo |
| 20:56.01 | SunSparc | Only when the learner is ready will the master appear. |
| 20:59.49 | SunSparc | Just like any wisdom, the message of Arbinger will only resonate if you are willing and in tune. Thus, not all wisdom is for all people at all times. |
| 21:00.23 | TodPunk | I'm going to guess that it may not actually be wisdom, just help |
| 21:01.34 | SunSparc | lol, naturally your perspective indicates reception level. |
| 21:05.33 | TodPunk | It may simply not be relevant to a lot of situations. From what I'm seeing, I can think of a dozen companies I've worked with this wouldn't even be remotely helpful to |
| 21:07.28 | SunSparc | Having been through several of their training seminars and seeing a lot of their material, I can see how it would be helpful in every industry and every situation. |
| 21:08.15 | SunSparc | And not just industry, but in relationship in general. Even in families, schools, etc. |
| 21:08.36 | TodPunk | Cute. Looks like we have a believer. |
| 21:08.43 | SunSparc | Government could learn much from the Arbinger principles. |
| 21:08.51 | TodPunk | Have you considered joining an MLM? |
| 21:08.55 | SunSparc | TodPunk: I am definitely a believer. :) |
| 21:09.08 | SunSparc | TodPunk: Been there, done that. |
| 21:34.51 | keldwud | SunSparc: are you messin with us? |
| 21:35.34 | keldwud | I'm super scared to try any of the Arbinger stuff now |
| 21:40.12 | TodPunk | keldwud: it's just a typical self-help life-coach management seminar thing |
| 21:40.19 | TodPunk | might work for you, might not |
| 21:40.32 | TodPunk | certainly nothing to be afraid of |
| 21:41.33 | keldwud | well with the language that SunSparc was using, it was signalling red flags for me |
| 21:42.35 | TodPunk | well sure, as it should, but just about his relationship with it |
| 21:43.45 | TodPunk | keldwud: what aspects of project management are you looking at? I might have some more pragmatic things for you, depending on if it's aspects I work with or not. |
| 21:44.47 | keldwud | TodPunk: just anything that can help me stop getting overwhelmed with PM stuff and help me manage better what I'm getting. Like, I spend way too much time on communicating with all the different teams and a lot of time communicating with management about the status of projects, etc |
| 21:45.23 | keldwud | I could probably use to become more efficient at Target Process |
| 21:45.42 | keldwud | or maybe if I understood agile methods better, I could understand PM expectations more easily |
| 21:45.45 | keldwud | I dunno |
| 21:45.52 | keldwud | I just wanna build stuff :( |
| 21:47.21 | SunSparc | keldwud: Just build stuff then. :) |
| 21:48.12 | keldwud | ahh, that's what I've been doing wrong this whole time ;) |
| 21:48.17 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:48.22 | TodPunk | agile methods are mostly guidelines when you look at a source, and terrible misunderstandings in practice |
| 21:48.33 | SunSparc | keldwud: Do you use any PM tools currently? |
| 21:48.35 | TodPunk | every "agile" shop seems to mess it up more than not |
| 21:49.08 | SunSparc | Yeah, I agree, agile is just a set of guidelines. You have to do what works for you. |
| 21:49.32 | SunSparc | The place I am currently as uses Trello.com for PM and organization of projects. |
| 21:50.17 | TodPunk | keldwud: I've used Trello, Asana, and Basecamp for task management and prioritizaton across a team. I've used Jira and a couple others for more detailed software project management. Your use case isn't the same, but might fit well with some of that |
| 21:50.36 | SunSparc | keldwud: What kind of communications do you have about projects on a daily basis? |
| 21:50.52 | TodPunk | As far as managing expectations, that's mostly about keeping communication thorough but succinct, and hopefully having some structure to tie that communication TO the project/tasks |
| 21:51.20 | TodPunk | if your tool is the thing being used for the communication, it saves you a step, otherwise you have to do management of copy/past from email/slack/whatever |
| 21:52.46 | spangborn | ~youtah-- |
| 21:52.47 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 21:54.34 | SunSparc | keldwud: One quote I really liked from that Signal vs Noise article was: "Weâre big believers in asynchronous communicationâââwrite it down now and other people can absorb it later when theyâre ready. Real-time communication in person or virtually forces synchronization of schedules which is highly inefficient." |
| 22:00.02 | romanovic | keldwud: just saw your above questions. our company definitely took time to evolve, but mostly before I got there. |
| 22:02.14 | romanovic | basecamp's method is similar to ours, except we iterate every two weeks instead of every six. and our designers don't lead our projects, its a Product Owner. Product Owners often rise from the ranks of documentation or QA analysts who understand our range of products very well |
| 22:03.31 | romanovic | we work in healthcare and there are a lot of complexities, so some Product Owners have previously worked as nurses, MA's, etc as well |
| 22:04.19 | romanovic | so it makes sense to have them in a dedicated role, rather than dual-tasking someone already working on the product directly |
| 22:05.27 | keldwud | TodPunk: I resent your implication that I'm using my tool for communication. How inappropriate. |
| 22:05.30 | keldwud | :) |
| 22:06.25 | keldwud | romanovic: thank you for taking the time to respond. I'd love to try and get my org to a similar state, so your feedback is helpful. |
| 22:10.49 | romanovic | SunSparc: I like that quote. Every time someone forces synchronisation of schedules for meetings that aren't driving product development, I want to calculate an estimated man-hour/financial loss and drop it on their desk |
| 22:11.03 | SunSparc | +1 |
| 22:13.09 | romanovic | "You just spent ~$30,000 to pull the whole department together for an afternoon to solve a minor problem that surely doesn't justify that much man power. Do you think it was worth the price?" |
| 22:13.20 | frostyfrog | I've seen both communication styles. |
| 22:27.54 | SunSparc | romanovic: "That was some expensive Little Ceasers pizza." |
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| 23:43.31 | harleypig | anyone familiar with bluetooth headsets on ubuntu based systems? |
| 23:43.39 | harleypig | (specifically mint) |