| 00:00.45 | TodPunk | RIP Pebble =c( |
| 00:01.27 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 00:01.30 | TodPunk | To be utterly clear, I am planning on doing all of this myself. I'll solder the things even, write all the software (or have a group I know that are interested help me) and it will be entirely a DIY type effort |
| 00:01.59 | RyanE | that's good for fun, but not as good when you go to sell your house. :) Have a good night. Later. |
| 00:13.24 | aeryndunham | Good evening |
| 00:14.37 | SunSparc | Later all! |
| 00:36.43 | *** part/#utah Nemus (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 01:13.29 | shalkie | So, does anyone have a suggestion for a good UPS manufacturer? It seems the UPS installed by a sysadmin a few years ago uses hard to find batteries and I am going to have to just switch it out. |
| 01:14.12 | shalkie | I see a really compareable model from Opti-UPS, but I have never worked with them before. |
| 01:21.53 | TodPunk | I think the "sell your house" point is true of just about any provider's stuff |
| 01:22.29 | TodPunk | unless it's using a well documented reusable standard, proprietary or open, you're just stuck with vendor A, even if vendor A is yourself |
| 01:23.59 | TodPunk | shalkie: depends on what your needs are. I have always had good reliability with APC, but I've never needed anything particularly advanced |
| 01:29.07 | shalkie | Yeah, I think APC is |
| 01:29.27 | shalkie | basically the standard. |
| 01:30.30 | shalkie | I have always had good experiences with them. Of course if I have to justify the expense to the boss, it doesn't hurt to look at some of the others. :) |
| 04:42.14 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 06:16.52 | TodPunk | speaking of life expectancy, as we see /. has this link for us about our decline: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/12/08/504667607/life-expectancy-in-u-s-drops-for-first-time-in-decades-report-finds |
| 13:07.18 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 14:50.07 | aeryndunham | Whoa, a crew member just came by to tell me he thinks his coworker is stealing Internet and the guy totally is |
| 16:12.17 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 16:16.47 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: so what do you do about this? |
| 16:18.26 | aeryndunham | We add him to the list, really. We've discovered this recently, and we're still kind of on hold about what to DO about it. Management has been like "just block their mac addresses" which ok sure, but then what do I do when they come to me asking why their internet doesn't work |
| 16:20.20 | *** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@216.51.32.182) |
| 16:24.33 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (~jonathan@45.56.57.85) |
| 16:27.02 | *** join/#utah Nemus (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 16:28.10 | romanovic | aeryndunham: stealing internet using that ping obfuscation method? |
| 16:28.58 | aeryndunham | romanovic: Yeah. We think most people using the pings are using a program called Your Freedom, but the guy I learned about today has uncovered a whole new group using OpenVPN, I'm not sure yet how that is disguising their traffic |
| 16:30.20 | romanovic | interesting. i assume the network redirects all http traffic if they don't have paid internet turned on? is it still letting other ports through to the open internet then? |
| 16:30.21 | aeryndunham | It's probably lucky for these people that there are so many people stealing; if it were 1 or 2 they'd probably be dismissed, but we can't fire 100+ people |
| 16:30.27 | romanovic | sounds like thats what was happening for ping, at least |
| 16:38.42 | spangborn | aeryndunham: There are tools that create OpenVPN tunnels using the same technique |
| 16:39.32 | spangborn | My home VPN server actually has the ability to do OpenVPN over ICMP (ping) traffic or DNS traffic |
| 16:39.43 | aeryndunham | huh |
| 16:42.37 | spangborn | The ability to use OpenVPN over it is important to them because ICMP/DNS tunneling basically uses base64 encoding to hide the traffic, which is easily decoded to find out what it is. The VPN layer adds an encryption layer |
| 16:42.57 | spangborn | But it's still just VPN traffic encapsulated in ICMP/DNS |
| 16:44.28 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: you pull them in close, you look shiftily to the left and the right, and you say, "because you're a fucking pirate" |
| 16:45.32 | aeryndunham | lollll |
| 16:46.48 | spangborn | https://www.softether.org/1-features/1._Ultimate_Powerful_VPN_Connectivity#1.6._VPN_over_ICMP.2C_and_VPN_over_DNS_(Awesome!) |
| 16:46.50 | spangborn | Tadaaaa |
| 16:47.00 | spangborn | (I don't have it enabled, but it could be fun to play with) |
| 16:52.44 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: you do a roaming cell plan thing, right? Or do you just get free internet? |
| 16:54.19 | unum | http://new.mycash.utah.gov/ |
| 16:54.25 | unum | the state may be holding on to money for you |
| 16:55.21 | aeryndunham | TodPunk: Both |
| 16:55.35 | aeryndunham | TodPunk: I have a generous allotment of data onboard, but I also have a really good roaming plan |
| 16:57.04 | spangborn | Whoa, a government site using typekit? |
| 16:57.10 | spangborn | What is this alternate universe? |
| 16:58.37 | spangborn | Is there confirmation about Amazon getting 18% of the sales tax from Utah? |
| 16:58.56 | spangborn | I've seen rumors of such things, but I haven't seen anything official yet |
| 16:58.58 | unum | that's from deseret news |
| 16:59.12 | unum | I guess the state's trying to keep it a seceret |
| 16:59.18 | spangborn | Shocking |
| 16:59.25 | unum | I don't have a problem with the state trying to enforce and existing law |
| 16:59.43 | unum | I do have a problem with the state trying to keep a policy seceret |
| 17:00.18 | spangborn | Well, and giving Amazon tax money back |
| 17:00.32 | spangborn | Especially if they're claiming this helps protect local business |
| 17:00.55 | unum | ah there is a tax law that allows it |
| 17:01.37 | unum | the consumer still has to pay the full tax so it eliminates tax evasion as a reason to buy from amazon |
| 17:03.45 | unum | the guy that wrote the law used to be my state rep |
| 17:03.55 | unum | he was the scout master and I was the assistant scout master |
| 17:04.13 | spangborn | lol http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13892400/samsung-galaxy-note-7-permanently-disabled-no-charging-us-update |
| 17:04.50 | RyanE | you can pry my cold, dead Galaxy Note 7 from my hands. |
| 17:06.28 | unum | http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865668924/Amazoncom-expected-to-keep-18-percent-of-sales-taxes-collected-in-Utah.html |
| 17:06.37 | unum | RyanE: it will be dead soon |
| 17:07.07 | spangborn | Is it really cold if it's on fire? |
| 17:07.10 | unum | I love reading articles where state republican officials talk about how the federal government needs to solve their problems |
| 17:07.25 | unum | spangborn: lol |
| 17:08.19 | unum | maybe it's time to abandon sales tax and switch to property tax |
| 17:08.31 | TodPunk | Yeah, that's worked out SO well for Oregon |
| 17:08.54 | TodPunk | (Spoiler: this has not worked out well for Oregon) |
| 17:09.05 | spangborn | Just end all taxes except taxing marijuana after legalizing it |
| 17:10.34 | unum | TodPunk: what problems did it cause it Oregon? |
| 17:11.38 | TodPunk | unum: The two things talked about most while I was there was that a) it's REALLY hard to adjust to changes, because raising property taxes is difficult, and b) it doesn't actually reflect needs at any given time, especially in denser populated areas |
| 17:12.06 | TodPunk | Sales tax is sort of interesting in that if you sell more things in your state, your state does better |
| 17:12.50 | TodPunk | Oregon has the problem of selling way more things because they don't have sales tax (I'm looking at you, Portland visitors from Washington) and getting nothing from that, but still absolutely being expected to support the infrastructure required for that |
| 17:13.33 | TodPunk | it worked for a while mostly because anyone that owned land in Oregon was by and large just going to sit there and do nothing. It's not exactly a growth sector kind of state. |
| 17:13.53 | TodPunk | People, however, still want to grow sometimes. Have lots of babies, for instance. |
| 17:15.08 | unum | for cities like salt lake sales tax works a lot better |
| 17:15.20 | unum | of course you end with suburbs full of car dealerships |
| 17:15.46 | unum | Draper is the first city I've lived in where state street wasn't half car dealerships |
| 17:17.04 | unum | bedroom communities like car dealerships because they bring in high tax revenue from few sales |
| 17:18.23 | unum | tax amount increase as more sub divisions are built, but it's true that you generate no revenue from tourism |
| 17:18.34 | unum | I was reading some states allow local resort taxes |
| 17:19.04 | unum | eliminating grocery and retail taxes while maintaining restraunt and hotel taxes is also an option |
| 17:19.18 | unum | of course Utah now has a very low tax rate |
| 17:19.24 | unum | income tax rate |
| 17:19.42 | unum | that could also be raised and used to fund local government |
| 17:19.50 | spangborn | I'm actually okay with car dealerships all being in one place |
| 17:19.56 | unum | but is still bad for tourist destinations |
| 17:19.57 | spangborn | Means they're not strewn everywhere else |
| 17:20.14 | unum | spangborn: current policy leads to them being strewn through out the suburbs |
| 17:20.25 | unum | of course I also think salt lake county should just become one big city |
| 17:20.36 | unum | maybe even the whole wasatch front at this point |
| 17:20.44 | unum | that solves a lot of problems |
| 17:20.53 | unum | I'm sure it creates whole new ones as well..... |
| 17:20.54 | spangborn | Cottonwood Heights would still refuse to be a part of that |
| 17:21.06 | spangborn | The rich want to keep their tax money close |
| 17:21.06 | unum | everyone would refuse to be part of that |
| 17:21.24 | spangborn | That's the entire reason why Canyon School District is a thing |
| 17:21.30 | unum | ya you're right the east side would oppose it more than the west side |
| 17:21.45 | unum | then the state forced them to share their money anyways :) |
| 17:21.50 | spangborn | "We can't have our tax money paying for poor people" |
| 17:21.56 | unum | and now they have twice as much administration cost |
| 17:22.38 | unum | I don't consider riverton and herriman poor, but you're right that's the reason they split |
| 17:23.01 | unum | I wonder if that's why they all keep splitting off on policy and fire as well |
| 17:23.03 | spangborn | Well they're poor comparatively to CH |
| 17:23.09 | unum | draper just voted to create their own fire department |
| 17:23.13 | unum | for reason I can't understand |
| 17:23.32 | spangborn | CH has had very good luck with not using county snowplows /s |
| 17:23.44 | spangborn | Which is funny, because they probably were the city that needed county resources the most |
| 17:23.50 | spangborn | In that regard, anyway |
| 17:24.15 | unum | draper's the small city I've ever lived in |
| 17:24.27 | unum | and have the smallest retail tax base |
| 17:24.40 | RyanE | Highland has a pretty small retail base. |
| 17:24.46 | spangborn | At least you don't live in Lehi, where they don't plow youtah's street |
| 17:25.11 | unum | there's only five houses on my street and they plow it |
| 17:25.19 | unum | of course I live next to a former city council member |
| 17:28.22 | unum | some of the people in the article seem to expect people to stop shopping on line |
| 17:28.30 | unum | you're not putting that cat back in the bag |
| 17:28.50 | spangborn | Eh, I'll just shift to using eBay more |
| 17:29.12 | spangborn | Amazon Prime doesn't even mean much anymore when they take 3 days to even put the package into their delivery system |
| 17:29.30 | RyanE | I haven't had that experience. |
| 17:29.54 | unum | spangborn: so you're going to shop based on which company aides and abets tax evasion the best? |
| 17:31.24 | spangborn | If Amazon is getting sketchy kickbacks in sales tax, sure |
| 17:33.23 | unum | I'm not sure what you mean by sketchy |
| 17:33.36 | spangborn | "We'll collect sales tax if you give us 18% of it" |
| 17:34.00 | unum | if that's how you define sketchy then yes it is by definition sketchy |
| 17:34.33 | unum | Utah law specifically states that online retailers with out a state presence can keep up to 18% of collected sales tax |
| 17:35.06 | unum | since it's encoded in a law that was openly voted on by a majority of legislatures, I tend not to consider it sketchy |
| 17:38.06 | spangborn | And yet, there's still the "confidential agreemenT" |
| 17:39.01 | unum | ya |
| 17:39.02 | unum | that's true |
| 17:39.11 | unum | the state really shouldn't be allowed to do that |
| 17:42.43 | unum | national defense and personal privacy are the only good reasons for government privacy |
| 17:48.00 | unum | I guess it would be better to buy on ebay and they pay the full tax to the state :) |
| 17:49.04 | TodPunk | RyanE: Highland has all of Alpine's retail base that Alpine didn't want =cP |
| 17:49.57 | RyanE | that'd be really helpful if 1) Alpine didn't keep it's own retail taxes, and 2) if it had any. |
| 17:50.00 | TodPunk | spangborn: to be fair to Lehi, youtah's street is bullshit and he shouldn't live there if he needs it plowed 24/7 |
| 17:50.11 | spangborn | Agreed |
| 17:50.53 | TodPunk | He doesn't need it plowed 24/7 with his Subaru obsessions, mind you, he just likes bitching about reality not bowing to his expectations all the time |
| 17:52.21 | TodPunk | (and really, plows need to be focused on streets that more than 20 families will be using first) |
| 17:52.59 | RyanE | TodPunk: sure, you and your liberal elite 'city dwellers'. No respect for small family neighborhoods! :) |
| 17:53.27 | RyanE | Not my Coucilman! |
| 17:54.26 | TodPunk | no kidding |
| 17:54.40 | TodPunk | wouldn't enter local politics to save his life |
| 17:55.15 | TodPunk | Lehi is especially funny right now with all the demands and cross-cultural nonsense warring all over |
| 17:55.31 | TodPunk | that and Lehi city being essentially the worst planned growth in Utah |
| 17:57.29 | RyanE | "planned" === "Growth? Sure!" |
| 18:17.51 | frostyfrog | demands? cross-cultural nonsense? |
| 18:18.14 | frostyfrog | is really bad at paying attention to what goes on around them. |
| 18:29.45 | TodPunk | frostyfrog: "We want more baseball fields! No, more parks in general! No, better roads! No, less flies and smell from the mink farms! No, save the mink farms! No, save main street! No, expand the freeway! No, don't let the evil government expand the freeway, that will take people's property away!" |
| 18:29.59 | TodPunk | "Can we have a better rec center?" |
| 18:30.05 | TodPunk | "shut up that's stupid." |
| 18:31.07 | TodPunk | And there's a hug difference between old lehi and the majority of lehi which is new. Traverse Mountain especially thinks they're hot shit and the pearl of the whole state. |
| 18:31.35 | RyanE | every community is a special snowflake. |
| 18:34.01 | frostyfrog | xD |
| 18:39.06 | harleypig | Bah! My ssh identities are not being carried over to my server. And, yes, ForwardAgent is yes. |
| 18:49.41 | unum | north logan and providence like to buildwalmart right to the city line they share with logan |
| 18:51.36 | RyanE | your tax dollars at work. |
| 18:56.16 | spangborn | my West Jordan neighborhood is the pearl of the state, if pearls are gang tags |
| 18:56.54 | spangborn | It's even more fun when WJPD tells me they don't have money to patrol my neighborhood |
| 18:57.01 | spangborn | (It's also a lie) |
| 18:58.13 | spangborn | I'm trying to get WordPress to dump bad logins to a log file so I can let fail2ban handle it :) |
| 19:05.20 | harleypig | I parsed that as trying to use fail2ban to keep gangbangers from tagging your neighborhood ... |
| 19:07.17 | TodPunk | hehehehe, utah "gangs" |
| 19:08.04 | TodPunk | I'm sure there are idiots in utah same as anywhere, but I lived in Chicagoland and Los Angeles |
| 19:08.58 | spangborn | harleypig: If fail2ban would do that, I would be a very happy person |
| 19:09.13 | harleypig | Yeah, I lived in San Bernardino and worked in Century City; and my mom taught in Banning for 20 years. |
| 19:09.15 | spangborn | I'd hide Raspberry Pis everywhere in the neighborhood running fail2ban ;p |
| 19:09.17 | harleypig | spangborn: :] |
| 19:11.00 | harleypig | TodPunk: But dismissing the gang problem in Utah as not being as bad in other places just means that our children will have to deal with the same level of gang bangers in 20 years. |
| 19:13.17 | TodPunk | harleypig: oh, I'm not dismissing it, just mocking it. It should be much easier to handle, mind you, but ultimately I'm just glad that if I ever encountered a utah gang I would feel pretty confident teling them they should feel bad about their hobbies and shoo them off. |
| 19:14.27 | TodPunk | grabs lunch |
| 19:47.33 | *** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@216.51.32.182) |
| 20:32.15 | SunSparc | infobot: wb |
| 20:32.15 | infobot | thx |
| 20:36.41 | TodPunk | infobot: go to hell |
| 20:36.41 | infobot | methinks go to hell is a song |
| 20:36.49 | TodPunk | it probably is |
| 20:36.51 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:37.20 | SunSparc | I think the title is actually, "goto hell". |
| 20:40.15 | spangborn | is listening to Cake - Sheep Go To Heaven from the album Prolonging the Magic on Spotify. |
| 20:41.41 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 21:24.11 | jima | goats...go to hell. |
| 21:26.04 | spangborn | ~jima++ |
| 21:26.40 | jima | i'm not feeling alright today |
| 21:26.44 | jima | i'm not feeling that great |
| 21:27.05 | jima | (yes, i'm pretty familiar with the song.) |
| 21:34.18 | jima | ~karma jima |
| 21:34.18 | infobot | jima has karma of 8 |
| 21:34.30 | jima | (a little awkward, given that karma is my sister-in-law) |
| 21:34.38 | spangborn | Haha |
| 21:34.41 | spangborn | ~youtah-- |
| 21:34.47 | jima | ~karma youtah |
| 21:34.47 | infobot | youtah has karma of 3 |
| 21:34.50 | jima | ooooh burn |
| 21:35.08 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 21:35.09 | spangborn | ~karma brave |
| 21:35.09 | infobot | brave has karma of 21 |
| 21:41.05 | shalkie | ~YOUTAH++ |
| 21:41.10 | shalkie | argh. |
| 21:41.15 | shalkie | ~youtah++ |
| 21:41.32 | shalkie | ~nachos++ |
| 21:42.27 | SunSparc | ~++++ |
| 21:42.34 | SunSparc | ~karma ++ |
| 21:42.34 | infobot | ++ has neutral karma |
| 21:43.11 | spangborn | ~youtah-- |
| 21:43.17 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 21:52.59 | romanovic | was a Cake fan, before social media |
| 21:53.06 | jima | ditto |
| 21:53.53 | romanovic | after years of seeing the bs posted on FB by the Cake page, I just am not interested any longer |
| 21:54.33 | jima | oh...i've never looked. |
| 22:00.09 | unum | I tend to find the less I know about actors/musicians/etc the better I am able to enjoy their work |
| 22:08.43 | RyanE | yeah, Bono example. |
| 22:12.49 | unum | for me it's more like Scott Baio |
| 22:13.01 | unum | of course there's the famous craig nelson quote |
| 22:26.48 | RyanE | not familiar with either of those examples. I guess I'm out of the loop. |
| 22:30.27 | TodPunk | ~youtah-- |
| 22:32.34 | unum | "we were living on food stamp no one helped us" |
| 22:32.58 | unum | and Baio openly supported Trump |
| 22:44.14 | unum | not that I was really a big fan of either of them. But I'd prefer not to find out stuff like that about people I do like to watch. |
| 22:45.54 | *** join/#utah frostyfrog (~frostyfro@unaffiliated/frostyfrog) |
| 23:04.49 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 23:05.30 | SunSparc | People are people, not matter how rich/poor and famous/unknown they are. |
| 23:06.12 | aeryndunham | fell asleep and almost did not make it to work just now |
| 23:06.30 | spangborn | Good thing you work the same place you live! |
| 23:06.39 | aeryndunham | very good thing |
| 23:07.01 | aeryndunham | dang Caribbean heat puts me right to sleep |
| 23:07.10 | aeryndunham | I actually went outside for lunch today |
| 23:08.08 | SunSparc | looks out the window at the snow and wishes he was falling asleep in the Caribbean heat... |
| 23:08.20 | aeryndunham | will trade you! I want snow soooo bad |
| 23:08.27 | TodPunk | is fine looking at the snow and falling asleep in his house heat |
| 23:08.47 | SunSparc | packs up all the snow and ships it to aeryndunham |
| 23:09.04 | SunSparc | leaves a small patch of snow just for TodPunk |
| 23:09.22 | TodPunk | we have a nice sledding hill, just leave that, really |
| 23:09.42 | aeryndunham | I mean the 2 margaritas may have also contributed to this falling asleep as well but I plead the 5th. |
| 23:09.55 | TodPunk | 200' run at about a 40 degree angle right into a soccer field |
| 23:10.12 | SunSparc | Nice! |
| 23:10.21 | aeryndunham | that does sound great |
| 23:10.30 | SunSparc | I like to visit snow, to play in. I just do not like to live in it. |
| 23:11.02 | aeryndunham | misses seasons |
| 23:12.00 | SunSparc | Seasons have some benefits. |
| 23:16.16 | programmerq | I probably can't handle sledding this season. :( |
| 23:37.23 | *** part/#utah Nemus (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 23:42.51 | aeryndunham | programmerq: aww :( |
| 23:43.25 | programmerq | thyroid gave out on me. still haven't seen the endocronologist, so I'm all off-balance. |
| 23:43.43 | aeryndunham | that sucks |
| 23:43.51 | programmerq | heart rate is 93 just sitting here |
| 23:44.48 | programmerq | I *love* sledding. I even bought a really nice sled suitable for adults a few years ago. |