| 05:32.20 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 05:32.20 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 05:33.39 | *** join/#utah blunaxela (~alex@c-67-162-147-93.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:42.09 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 05:42.09 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 05:54.59 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 05:55.00 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 10:13.44 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 12:30.29 | *** join/#utah RuShan (~RuShan@2600:100e:b13c:eb38:87f4:dcf0:d536:aad0) |
| 13:04.03 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 13:05.06 | aeryndunham | Morning! |
| 13:10.42 | jholtom | Hello |
| 13:10.54 | aeryndunham | jholtom: How are you this morning? |
| 13:11.18 | jholtom | Tired and bitchy |
| 13:11.24 | jholtom | How about you? |
| 13:11.26 | aeryndunham | nods |
| 13:11.31 | aeryndunham | Sleepy but not terrible |
| 13:11.40 | aeryndunham | work is dead so far which is always a nice surprise |
| 13:13.01 | jholtom | Mhm |
| 14:34.13 | *** join/#utah BitBandit (~BitBandit@50-198-187-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 14:51.04 | aeryndunham | These people have got to me trolling me this morning |
| 14:51.22 | aeryndunham | Guy doing work on his company laptop needed to ask me how to save a document and attach it to an email |
| 14:51.27 | jholtom | nah |
| 14:51.30 | jholtom | some people are just dumb |
| 15:02.02 | frostyfrog | Morning :3 |
| 15:26.15 | jholtom | morning for |
| 15:26.18 | jholtom | *fr |
| 15:26.21 | jholtom | darn |
| 15:28.05 | frostyfrog | xD |
| 15:34.23 | Migs | My boss wants to send me to some tech/dev workshops next year. I wonder if I can sell him on this https://ngcruise.com/#/ |
| 15:39.51 | *** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@205.197.211.114) |
| 15:39.55 | RyanE | good luck with that. :) |
| 15:48.31 | jholtom | haha |
| 15:55.22 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (~jonathan@45.56.57.85) |
| 16:01.18 | keldwud | your boss *wants* to send you? |
| 16:01.20 | keldwud | jelly |
| 16:01.37 | keldwud | I always have to pay out of pocket and use vacation time on my personal enrichment |
| 16:16.13 | RyanE | If I ask in advance, my work will usually give me time off and pay for UTOS. |
| 16:16.21 | RyanE | Sadly, I was out of town for UTOS last year. |
| 16:20.26 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:21.51 | Migs | they like to send us to places once a year at least |
| 16:22.10 | Migs | and they set aside a training budget for this sort of thing...every year I typically just do something local in Utah, though |
| 16:22.33 | Migs | I asked him about a conference in Florida...he said he'd like to send me somewhere like that, but it needs to be more workshop-oriented than what I had in mind. So I'm looking for something else. |
| 16:25.14 | unum | I asked the wrong person my first few years here |
| 16:25.26 | unum | eventually I approached the right person and I can do pretty much anything local |
| 16:25.41 | unum | I could probably get away with going somewhere once a year if I really wanted to |
| 16:25.47 | unum | I love openwest |
| 16:25.52 | unum | saintcon was really fun too |
| 16:26.06 | unum | though I can only go to that one every other year |
| 16:27.49 | Migs | I love openwest too |
| 16:41.41 | frostyfrog | loves the hardware projects from the #dc801 peeps. |
| 17:34.22 | RuShan | frostyfrog you should like next years badge if all goes well ;) |
| 17:34.57 | RuShan | The DC25 party badge for DC801 |
| 17:35.04 | frostyfrog | Sadly, I missed this year's badge. :( Definitely looking forward to next year though! |
| 17:35.12 | RuShan | Sad |
| 17:35.30 | RuShan | I wonder who has tibkered with this years badge |
| 17:39.30 | TodPunk | <--- |
| 17:39.35 | TodPunk | Nothing of note, mind you |
| 17:39.55 | TodPunk | It's actually on my desk, here, right now |
| 17:41.18 | RuShan | The BLE from this years badge has some cool abilities |
| 17:42.46 | RuShan | Hope to tweet some fun progress on the new badge in the next month or two |
| 17:45.27 | RuShan | I wish I hot to attend more local conferences |
| 17:45.35 | RuShan | *got |
| 17:49.50 | fadein | RuShan: it would be hot if you got to |
| 17:50.15 | RuShan | Yew LOL |
| 17:50.29 | RuShan | Hate typing on my phone |
| 17:58.07 | frostyfrog | would honestly like to learn how to create boards that worked with processors and did cool things... Maybe a board like the GR8 or the CHIP pro? *shrugs* I'm a big fan of wifi-enabled devices that I can do stuff with over wifi. :s |
| 17:58.26 | RyanE | ESP8266. That's where Wifi is at. |
| 18:01.13 | frostyfrog | True, I forgot about that board. Still though, once I have that I still don't know how to (electrically) control some circuts with it. I think it'd be fun to learn :3 |
| 18:26.56 | RyanE | what kind of things do you want to control? |
| 18:28.47 | jholtom | its not hard |
| 18:28.51 | jholtom | get an esp board and just play around |
| 18:42.08 | frostyfrog | might actually fry a board or two or three before they get it right x3 |
| 18:50.22 | RyanE | it really is fairly easy these days. Google 'Control X with ESP8266', and there's usually a schematic. :) |
| 18:50.53 | RyanE | i.e. try "Control4 WS2812 with ESP8266" |
| 18:51.01 | RyanE | sorry, Control, not Control4... |
| 18:51.06 | RyanE | occupational hazard. :) |
| 19:04.54 | frostyfrog | =O |
| 19:05.24 | frostyfrog | will have to see about getting this sometime... |
| 20:40.51 | jima | eightyeight: now what? (re: 2016) |
| 20:41.00 | eightyeight | RIP John Glenn |
| 20:43.07 | keldwud | the astronaut? |
| 20:43.14 | jima | oh geez |
| 20:43.20 | jima | hadn't heard that yet |
| 20:44.12 | eightyeight | 2016 in summary: RIP- David Bowie, Alan Rickman, Harper Lee, Nancy Reagan, Prince, Muhammad Ali, Anton Yelchin, Gene Wilder, Arnold Palmer, Leonard Cohen, and now John Glenn |
| 20:44.22 | eightyeight | never mind, electing Trump for president |
| 20:44.38 | keldwud | well, I mean, wasn't John Glenn like 90+ years old? |
| 20:44.49 | keldwud | hell, half of those people were over 80 weren't they? |
| 20:45.01 | jima | ... |
| 20:45.09 | keldwud | ~google human life expectancy |
| 20:45.21 | jima | i'm reasonably certain most were under 80 |
| 20:45.30 | keldwud | TO THE GOOGLE MACHINE! |
| 20:46.06 | jima | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_in_2016 |
| 20:49.41 | keldwud | bowie 2016-1947; rickman 1946; lee 1926; reagan 1921; prince 1958; ali 1942 (74); yelchin 1989; gene wilder 1933; palmer 1929; cohen 1934; glenn 1921 |
| 20:50.11 | keldwud | I bet if I averaged out their ages when they died, it would be well above the average human life expectancy |
| 20:50.17 | keldwud | crunches numbers |
| 20:50.18 | jima | so, 1936 being the cutoff for 80+ |
| 20:50.22 | jima | easier |
| 20:51.00 | jima | 5 80-, 6 80+ |
| 20:51.15 | jima | i stand corrected. |
| 20:51.29 | keldwud | :-p |
| 20:51.40 | keldwud | take that, iwojima! |
| 20:53.08 | jima | i hadn't remembered wilder was that old |
| 20:54.00 | TodPunk | I want a super cheap (like $2 per) chip I can do a mesh network with |
| 20:54.04 | keldwud | would you look at that! |
| 20:54.13 | keldwud | (69+70+90+95+58+74+27+83+87+82+95)÷11 = 75.45454545 |
| 20:54.20 | keldwud | almost exactly on the nose |
| 20:54.21 | jima | heh |
| 20:54.28 | keldwud | so it's not really surprising that all those people died |
| 20:54.36 | keldwud | you know, cuz of life expectancy and stuff :) |
| 20:55.19 | keldwud | 2010 world average 67.2 |
| 20:55.25 | keldwud | but let's adjust for being American |
| 20:55.44 | TodPunk | Americans don't have the best life expectancy, actually |
| 20:55.47 | keldwud | 77.5 |
| 20:55.53 | keldwud | TodPunk: you take that back! |
| 20:55.56 | TodPunk | I think it was 73? |
| 20:56.00 | keldwud | Americans are number one in everything! |
| 20:56.13 | keldwud | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:56.22 | TodPunk | What was that show's monologue? Number one in people that believe angels are real? |
| 20:56.51 | TodPunk | 78.74 |
| 20:57.01 | keldwud | I've watched some people go through some serious mental gymnastics to justify how higher mortality rates and lower life expectancies are better |
| 20:57.01 | TodPunk | Canada's is 81.24 |
| 20:57.07 | TodPunk | UKs is 81.50 |
| 20:57.22 | jima | canada's is because they're more polite, leads to less homicides |
| 20:57.29 | jima | uk...maybe the same. |
| 20:57.34 | TodPunk | Anything past 55 is gravy |
| 20:57.42 | jima | TodPunk: how old are you? |
| 20:57.44 | TodPunk | You're doing fuck all with that time anyway |
| 20:57.47 | TodPunk | jima: 34 |
| 20:57.55 | keldwud | because to have lower mortality rates and higher life expectancies would be to admit that american capitalism isn't the best for humans |
| 20:58.02 | jima | TodPunk: ok, i know what to get you for your 56th birthday |
| 20:58.05 | TodPunk | 20 years left is pretty good |
| 20:58.18 | keldwud | so it's easier to just say that the numbers are wrong or that it's not a good thing to live longer or have more children live past birth |
| 20:58.19 | TodPunk | jima: I'll probably beat you to that by a couple decades |
| 20:58.38 | jima | "couple decades" is pretty dang soon |
| 20:58.50 | TodPunk | likelihoods and all that |
| 21:00.04 | TodPunk | keldwud: I do think a lot of societies now extend life quite a bit beyond reasonable points, but that's less than specific about life expectancy should be X or something |
| 21:00.39 | TodPunk | Living for several years as a vegetable or in a significant amount of pain doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. |
| 21:01.53 | keldwud | well yeah, but I don't think that there are tons of people living as vegetables in countries with higher life expectancies |
| 21:02.01 | keldwud | and as a result they have a higher average |
| 21:02.10 | keldwud | I highly doubt that's what pushes them up |
| 21:02.26 | keldwud | and I would argue that that's not really being "alive" |
| 21:02.56 | keldwud | dude. my parents used to be 56 once |
| 21:07.34 | unum | access to anti-biotics tends to be the biggest determination of life expectancy |
| 21:07.43 | unum | all the other stuff doesn't really push it up that much |
| 21:07.59 | unum | and vaccines |
| 21:08.03 | unum | can't forget vaccines |
| 21:08.13 | keldwud | so we have fewer anti-biotics in the U.S.? |
| 21:08.24 | keldwud | ahh, vaccines. maybe that's why we have a lower life expectancy |
| 21:09.50 | TodPunk | diet and such go into it a bit, costs of health care disadvantage a larger pool of the populous and bring the average down a bit, etc |
| 21:10.03 | TodPunk | but yes, antibiotics will be like a huge fraction |
| 21:10.20 | TodPunk | when you can die from a random cut or bite that gets infected, or a flu, well |
| 21:10.55 | TodPunk | anyway, RyanE was talking about the ESP8266 |
| 21:11.11 | TodPunk | I want one of those, but for a mesh, which I guess you COULD do with the ESP8266 and wifi |
| 21:11.20 | unum | ya reading the articles those aren't americas problems |
| 21:11.34 | unum | that's why unindustrialized countries have lower life expectancy |
| 21:11.39 | TodPunk | the ESP8266 is also kind of expensive |
| 21:11.45 | unum | pluss all the nastiness of becoming an industrialized country.... |
| 21:14.43 | TodPunk | Basically, I want to pay <=$5 to hook up every plug, switch, door, or anything else that can be turned on or off (or a sensor read) and run for a year on battery or tied to the 120VAC, and hook it up to wireless network at a scale of a few hundred devices across a football field. |
| 21:14.50 | TodPunk | Is that so much to ask? =cP |
| 21:14.59 | TodPunk | $5 per device, I mean |
| 21:17.58 | jholtom | It's a little bit much |
| 21:18.06 | jholtom | We'll get there though. |
| 21:43.00 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (~jonathan@45.56.57.85) |
| 21:45.03 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 21:47.20 | *** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@205.197.211.114) |
| 22:06.22 | aeryndunham | wants to skip out on work for the day.... probably a bad idea :p |
| 22:14.47 | TodPunk | Likely, yes |
| 22:15.59 | aeryndunham | but i'm out of patience |
| 22:16.10 | aeryndunham | I can't answer any more stupid questions |
| 22:17.20 | jholtom | hallelujah going home |
| 22:20.55 | programmerq | aeryndunham⸠why can't this printer print yellow on my yellow paper? It must be broken. |
| 22:21.31 | aeryndunham | programmerq: Today is mostly "why can't I send this sms message over your wifi" |
| 22:21.43 | aeryndunham | which I completely understand is a difficult concept for me to explain to people |
| 22:21.48 | aeryndunham | but it's been like 25 of them |
| 22:21.52 | programmerq | lol |
| 22:23.17 | programmerq | draw a picture showing a phone with 3 antennas inside: cell, wifi, bluetooth. draw an x over the cell antenna and write sms next to it |
| 22:23.20 | programmerq | then just point to the poster |
| 22:25.30 | aeryndunham | I have a really tough time explaining the difference between 1) being connected to the ship's wifi network, 2) being logged into our local intranet, and 3) being on the intenret |
| 22:25.45 | aeryndunham | and then imessage vs sms is a whole of headache where I end up being like BLUE GOOD GREEN BAD |
| 22:37.26 | TodPunk | Oh, I got this |
| 22:38.22 | TodPunk | The cruise ship is a special garden. When you're at your house, you are in a public park. The cruise ship is more like an arboretum, and the internet is walled off. You have to open a door to allow you to see the internet outside the special garden |
| 22:39.20 | TodPunk | SMS is like having a walkie talkie on a travel trip. All those messages go over the walkie talkie. On the cruise ship, you're too far away to use the walkie talkie, so it doesn't work. |
| 22:39.49 | aeryndunham | can work with those |
| 22:41.27 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: btw, if you're ever back in Utah, I'll give a redux of that tech interviews talk if you are interested. |
| 22:42.08 | aeryndunham | is interested in anything that helps her get a job; alas does not foresee being in Utah anytime soon |
| 22:44.27 | aeryndunham | whooo boy it's formal night and I am most definitely not in formal |
| 22:44.30 | aeryndunham | I totally forgot |
| 22:52.16 | aeryndunham | Sigh. I hate the "my email isn't letting me in" - it's obviously the wrong password but they never believe me |
| 23:35.25 | SunSparc | q: "My email is not working", a: "They are serving free drinks on the Lido deck". |
| 23:36.02 | SunSparc | programmerq: I like that 3 antennas picture idea. |
| 23:40.21 | RyanE | TodPunk: It's not the cost of the chip that pushes over $5 / integrateable device, it's the cost of integrating the chip, support logic / circuitry, design, plastics, and regulatory. |
| 23:40.28 | RyanE | so yeah, it *is* unreasonable. :) |
| 23:41.51 | TodPunk | RyanE: ok, let me clarify: I want <=$5 per MCU with radio. The rest of the circuitry can add whatever. I don't care about the regulatory or the plastics, I'll do the design myself and the whole thing can be open source hardware after I'm done so anyone else can build them too |
| 23:42.09 | RyanE | https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Esp8266-WiFi-series-of-model-ESP-12-ESP-12F-esp12F-esp12-authenticity-guaranteed/1337009_32468324806.html |
| 23:42.11 | TodPunk | I just want an MCU with a meshable radio that I can tie to an antenna I guess |
| 23:42.14 | RyanE | $1.70/ea |
| 23:42.22 | RyanE | built-in antenna |
| 23:42.32 | RyanE | mesh is questionable. |
| 23:42.35 | TodPunk | yeah |
| 23:42.51 | TodPunk | They are supposed to be making a BLE thing sometime |
| 23:42.56 | TodPunk | that would probably be easier to mesh with |
| 23:42.59 | RyanE | yeah, that's the ESP32 |
| 23:43.09 | RyanE | They do have mesh libraries available for the ESP8266 |
| 23:43.09 | TodPunk | is that out yet? Last I looked it was not |
| 23:43.24 | RyanE | They are out, but there is no support for the BLE radio yet. |
| 23:43.28 | RyanE | I have a few ESP32s |
| 23:43.33 | RyanE | haven't used 'em yet. |
| 23:43.41 | TodPunk | blegh |
| 23:43.56 | RyanE | https://github.com/Coopdis/easyMesh |
| 23:43.58 | TodPunk | Could run that on a battery for a year, I'm sure |
| 23:44.06 | RyanE | nope |
| 23:44.20 | RyanE | unless you're talking a big battery, wifi is hungry. |
| 23:44.35 | RyanE | BTLE is even hungry, compared to ZigBee or ZWave. |
| 23:45.16 | RyanE | low-power mesh battery that's been around long enough and is proven, ZigBee or ZWave. |
| 23:45.28 | RyanE | of course, they're not $1.70 ea. in quantity 1. :| |
| 23:46.12 | TodPunk | ZWave is the open source one, right? |
| 23:46.42 | TodPunk | I was looking at a 1 or 2mhz one that you could just do ad-hoc or use a zigbee library or whatever, but it wasn't a general MCU as well |
| 23:46.54 | RyanE | Both have opened up quite a bit, not sure if you still need licensing for it even though it's "open". |
| 23:47.06 | RyanE | I don't worry about that, since work does that. |
| 23:47.23 | TodPunk | there was a small PCB thing that was $20 that would have done all the things I wanted |
| 23:47.39 | TodPunk | Basically every time I look into this I am saddened |
| 23:48.05 | RyanE | yeah, Control4 would make you sad. I have every light in my house, all rooms temperature sensors, all AV devices controlled with ZigBee remotes. |
| 23:48.14 | RyanE | but not < $5 each... :) |
| 23:48.28 | TodPunk | Yes, Control4 makes me very sad |
| 23:48.44 | RyanE | there's a solution to that, just be richer. :) |
| 23:48.53 | TodPunk | dealer only, expensive as hell, and if Control4 ever goes under, I have expensive bricks throughout my house |
| 23:49.10 | RyanE | if Control4 makes you sad, there are a *lot* of Home Automation systems that are waaaay more expensive and dealer only. |
| 23:49.23 | TodPunk | Those make me angry |
| 23:49.25 | RyanE | if Control4 went under, you would still have the same functionality until all devices died. |
| 23:49.29 | RyanE | It's not cloud-dependent. |
| 23:49.33 | RyanE | it runs locally |
| 23:49.56 | TodPunk | until anything breaks |
| 23:50.01 | RyanE | a system you build yourself has the same issue. |
| 23:50.08 | RyanE | only supported until that module goes out of stock. |
| 23:50.22 | RyanE | and anything that breaks, you have to build a new one. |
| 23:50.42 | RyanE | I don't think it's a bad tradeoff if you're building the size/cost house that Control4 targets. |
| 23:50.49 | RyanE | but I'm a company shill. :) |
| 23:50.53 | TodPunk | yeah, but replacing a module with something that has the same or compatible API is easier |
| 23:51.06 | RyanE | arguable. |
| 23:51.27 | RyanE | ultimately, you have to trust someone unless you build it all yourself, starting with sand. |
| 23:52.49 | RyanE | good chat. Leaving for SLC and the MOTAB Christmas Concert. Later. |
| 23:52.55 | TodPunk | An open wireless protocol is the level of solidarity you'd need |
| 23:52.58 | TodPunk | hf |
| 23:56.23 | TodPunk | Opening up a light switch and replacing the $10 card that broke with something completely different but with the same ID key and wireless communication protocol should be doable. "Should" being the operative word |
| 23:56.48 | TodPunk | Hell, if CHIP can be $9, this should be ridiculously easy. Buuuuut it's not |
| 23:59.51 | RyanE | one more thing before I'm out the door... The reason most products are more than you want to spend is so the company makes enough to be around if there are any problems... Cheap isn't always cheap. Control4 is always trying to make less expensive devices, but you have to have the margin to live, or you do a Pebble. :( |