IRC log for #utah on 20161202

04:11.58*** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
04:11.58*** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds
04:11.58*** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ
06:00.28*** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@174-23-219-250.slkc.qwest.net)
07:56.01klys~slashdot
14:27.16*** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51)
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16:00.35*** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@216.51.32.182)
16:19.06unumhttp://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/legal-raids-in-five-countries-seize-botnet-servers-sinkhole-800000-domains/
16:19.16unumI think I know why I suddenly saw a drop in spam
16:20.16jlp_zncdon't say anything about it, you'll jinx it!
16:33.34programmerqI had to submit my answer twice on today's AOC
16:51.05spangbornlmao comcast https://twitter.com/yipe/status/804719586788528129
17:07.58*** join/#utah nage (~nathan.ge@unaffiliated/nage)
17:13.33*** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51)
17:18.10aeryndunhamA passenger just asked me if I'm open on Saturday. Ohhhhh how I wish I could have said no :p
17:20.10spangbornOpen like open heart surgery?
17:20.38TodPunkOpen like, open to new ideas?
17:24.14aeryndunhamopen for business. I guess she thought maybe the internet cafe closed on weekends :p
17:25.47spangbornHaha
17:26.41spangborn~brave--
17:37.07aeryndunhamAhhaha, I've got Atom open working on a website and a guest just asked if I was a hacker
17:37.35frostyfrogxD
17:37.57spangborn1337
17:38.03frostyfrog"I hack together code, if that's what you mean" x3
17:38.19aeryndunhamlol
17:38.26aeryndunhammy CSS is actually deeeeeecent :p
17:39.05spangbornI got asked by an architect-level developer what "clear:both;" does this week
17:39.28aeryndunhamwow
17:39.31frostyfrogboth? What about up and down? /shot
17:39.39spangbornlol
17:40.08aeryndunhamI keep meaning to make myself use Sass but eh I'm lazy (although I do understand that it is easier in the long run :p )
17:40.11frostyfrogThat makes sense, actually. Especially if their dealing with lower level code and not web stuff.
17:40.27spangbornSASS is bae
17:40.28spangborn<3
17:40.34frostyfrogIt's like functions and nesting for CSS
17:40.39aeryndunhamI have used it, and I liked it well enough
17:40.47frostyfrogI use it JUST for the nesting aspect.
17:40.59aeryndunhambut by the time I remember to use it I'm halfway through the stylesheet
17:41.03TodPunkLESS>SASS
17:41.04aeryndunhamyeah, nesting and variables for colors was nice
17:41.10aeryndunhamI didn't get into mixins really at all
17:41.44TodPunk~brave--
17:41.51spangbornLESS is trash brah
17:41.55spangborn~brave--
17:42.13spangbornI mean it's in the name, it's less useful
17:42.16TodPunkLESS wasn't written with ruby.  This makes it superior to most things
17:42.34aeryndunhamlol
17:42.36TodPunk(this is also largely the only difference I could find between the two)
17:42.40aeryndunhamloves programmer wars
17:42.54aeryndunhamabout which very similar thing is superior
17:42.55spangbornLess is open source. Its first version was written in Ruby;
17:42.55TodPunklikes to casually throw them out
17:42.58spangbornIt was actually ;p
17:43.19TodPunkI give them credit for repenting for their sins
17:43.42spangbornDoes it make it better or worse that the current implementation is Javascript?
17:43.53TodPunkbetter, easily
17:43.58TodPunkand I hate JS
17:44.17TodPunkbut i'm already using it, so it's one less dependency
17:44.52aeryndunhamhates javascript and so logically chose a CMS/blog host that runs on node.js :p
17:47.47*** join/#utah aarobc (~aarobc@216.51.32.182)
17:49.00jimaTodPunk: and with your "C++ in the browser" tweet, you've reliquished any right to judge youtah ;-)
17:52.28aeryndunhamc++ in the browser??
17:52.31aeryndunhamshudders
17:52.39jimahttps://twitter.com/todpunk/status/804738480706195456
17:52.44jimajudge away!
17:52.56TodPunk*coughemscriptencough*
17:53.15TodPunkWait, why am I being judged for hating C++ and Javascript?
17:53.49jimayou're being judged for musing over whether C++ would be any better in the browser.
17:53.59TodPunkoh
17:54.02TodPunkwell that's fine
17:54.13aeryndunhamfolows more people on thw twitters :p
17:54.27jimai don't think anyone sane would judge you for hating either C++ or javascript
17:54.29TodPunk(it literally was musing about emscripten games from humble bundle, but generalized, so I'm fine with this judgement)
17:55.20jimaC++ + browser generally = extension/plugin afaik
17:55.26frostyfrogWell, there's also the native extensions that chrome allows...
17:55.33jimafrostyfrog: beat you to it!
17:56.21TodPunkfrostyfrog: that API is dead, I think
17:57.02TodPunkjima: https://support.humblebundle.com/hc/en-us/articles/203331430-Humble-Mozilla-Bundle-Powered-by-asm-js-System-Requirements
17:57.13TodPunkAll of these games run natively in your browser using only javascript
17:57.37TodPunkdespite often being in C++ or the like
17:57.37frostyfroghttps://developer.chrome.com/native-client
17:57.41jimaTodPunk: ok, i had nfc what you were talking about
17:58.39TodPunkfrostyfrog: "On October 12, 2016, a comment on the Chromium issue tracker indicated that Google's Pepper and Native Client teams had been destaffed."
18:00.32frostyfrogAh, well. Either way, from my understanding, the nethack extension and the flash plugin both use the API.
18:00.41TodPunkat the moment
18:00.59TodPunkwebassembly, for good or ill, is how that will be in the future =c/
18:01.06frostyfrogGreat...
18:01.19frostyfrognow imagines flash being rewritten in javascript...
18:02.01TodPunkjust the engine, and it would probably use emscripten to compile it to asm.js
18:02.14TodPunkas I recall this has already been demonstrated to work
18:02.29TodPunkyou do lose some of the APIs, though
18:02.36TodPunkso you can't use OS calls for instance
18:06.39aeryndunhamoh flexbox don't fail me now
18:11.27aeryndunhamhas a brain fail on how to upload custom fonts to a website. Been using Google Fonts waaaay too much :P
18:23.39TodPunkHey, there's a thing I know nothing about!
18:26.13aeryndunhamI'm not faring much better right now :p
18:26.18aeryndunhamwhat I just did should have worked, I think
18:26.27romanovicon the topic of clunky web technology, I'm really upset about my company's timesheet entry software.  We were on an old version that was java-based, but had a basic html alternative (which is what everyone used)
18:27.05romanovicthis week they "upgraded" to a "new" timesheet entry page, which is flash based.  I want to throw someone out the window.
18:27.36aeryndunhamUpgraded to..... Flash? In 2016?
18:27.52romanovicyah! it is crazy talk!
18:29.02aeryndunhamok @font-face what is your proble
18:29.38frostyfrogFlash is a nice technology. ;p
18:29.55TodPunkah, flash, how fun
18:30.05aeryndunham.... the fonts wanted to be in the CSS folder. OK, the/
18:36.55jlp_zncso, I'm looking at changing insurance companies... going through geico's quote generator and it wants to know what I do for a living.
18:37.24jlp_zncI tell it "DevOps" and the closest match it can come up with is "Sandwich Shop Manager"
18:37.39spangbornClose enough
18:37.50jlp_zncthat's what I thought, too, after some pondering
18:41.41aeryndunhamlol
19:04.43aeryndunhamwhoo boy the new cruise director is teaching a dance class outside my internet cafe and it's, uh, rough
19:07.11aeryndunhamhuh, my border-radius only rounded the top corners. I wonder why.
19:13.47TodPunkaeryndunham: because of instructor or students?
19:14.37aeryndunhamTodPunk: Instructor. The new cruise director is reallly young (for a cruise director), and brand-new, and this is the flagship at Chrismas so passenger expectations are HUUGE and she's just really awkward to listen to.
19:14.46aeryndunhamI mean she's probably terrified
19:15.05aeryndunhamAnd all the good cruise directors probably want to be home at Christmas
19:15.18TodPunkhehehehe, passenger expectations
19:18.02aeryndunhamthey're there, though
19:20.40aeryndunhamit's crazy how much I enjoy working on even the most boring website
19:33.44aeryndunhamIt's tough, I find the realllly old, really computer illiterate are more likely to have Kindle Fires than iPads or Samsungs, whatever, and Fires are the only device where I can't create a homescreen "LOGOUT" shortcut for them, and so they keep forgetting to go back to their browser to type logout.com and losing all their minutes :(
19:34.31jholtomthat sounds like you have a god awful network
19:35.30jholtomalso this should allow you to do it
19:35.33jholtomeven if they are using silk
19:35.34jholtomhttps://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx12ZFM55YQVDO
19:35.39aeryndunhamTo log out, you need to go back to the initial 'connection successful' screen and press a logout button, or you type logout.com in the browser - but this is too difficult for most people so we create homesreen shortcuts to logout.com for them to press
19:37.47aeryndunhamjholtom: We usually do add as a favorite on Kindles, it's all we can do, but that's too hard for them too
19:37.55jholtomu what.
19:37.58jholtomy'know
19:38.02jholtomI'm just gonna go back to going to space
19:38.03jholtomits more fun
19:38.37aeryndunham(I am fully confident that this stuff is NOT too difficult for the elderly, they have just all DECIDED that it's too hard, their kids/grandkids coddle this by making shortcuts for everything, and then they are on vacation and refuse to read or think)
19:38.42romanovicwhat sort of tablets do the computer _literate_ users use?
19:38.49jholtomwe don't use them
19:39.02jholtom(ok, I have a BB playbook, don't kill me)
19:39.20aeryndunhamIt's not like our passengers are great on any tablet, but it's only the suuuuuper old that have Fires, for whatever reason
19:40.07romanovichas been looking at buying his first tablet, ever
19:40.14jholtommy recommendation is to not
19:40.20jholtomunless you can find a use case for it
19:40.21romanovicI don't even know what the best (non-iOS) options are
19:40.27jholtomthat wouldn't be better served by a laptop
19:40.38jholtomI got my playbook free, and I don't use it
19:40.55jholtomI used the original asus transformer for several years in place of a laptop, but it layed down 11 hours of battery and a keyboard
19:40.55aeryndunhamI don't see too many tablets that I like
19:41.12romanovicI do.  I want something I can pick up and watch netflix on at home, because our TV now runs "wheels on the bus" exclusively
19:41.24jholtomthen get an ipad
19:41.29romanovicno
19:41.39jholtomyou'll be sorely disappointed with the other options
19:41.50jholtomi guess there's the pixel and n9 or whatever
19:41.52romanovicI'm disappointed with ipads.  my wife had one
19:41.54aeryndunhamI don't see too many Android tablets that don't suck
19:42.17jholtomthen just get a chromebook
19:42.20romanovicare there any non-android linux tablets?
19:42.26jholtomromanovic: hahahahaa no.
19:42.39unumwhat's wrong with android tablets?
19:42.41jholtomI guess you could run linux on one of the windows tablets thats x86
19:42.47jholtomunum: have you ever seen the interface scale?
19:43.01jholtomor the dramatic underpowering, bloating of the tablet skins?
19:43.05jholtomsee: samsung, everyone else
19:43.16romanovicunum: I'm fine with owning an android tablet. but if most of them are low quality I'll look for something else
19:43.21romanoviclooks at https://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/devices
19:43.25jholtomlmao
19:43.28jholtomthats even worse romanovic
19:43.44jholtomubuntu touch is a shitshow.
19:44.04jholtomalso > mediatek
19:44.07unumI have a kindle I won several years ago
19:44.09unumit's been fine
19:44.16unumbut I guess I don't really ever use it
19:44.22romanovicI want something that is open, can run a plex app, and has enough storage I can cache large bundles of my tv shows for offline/non-streaming viewing
19:44.25unumbut it works for netflix
19:44.28romanovicand netflix.
19:44.32unumit gets used for that and pbs kids
19:44.36jimamy last android tablet's getting a little long in the tooth...nearly unusable after the last few updates
19:45.06unumok it's time to update the payroll code
19:46.19aeryndunhamI love the idea of a Linux tablet but the existing ones don't look great
19:46.46romanovicand I want to be able to side-load any app I want, without some sort of jailbreaking process (ipads are out)
19:46.51TodPunkLinux tablet is a no-go
19:47.12TodPunkopen source people can't do a user interface to save their lives
19:47.43aeryndunhamI have noticed that
19:47.57TodPunkGiven the number of people into UI design with some expertise, I don't know why this isn't simpler
19:48.02aeryndunhamwell I do think KDE is nice looking
19:48.04TodPunkprobably because everyone wants every bad idea, too
19:48.34TodPunk"But I need it to do this other thing in my one environment."  Um... I can't make that look good.  That is a bad idea.  "But..."
19:48.46TodPunkThat's my theory for today, anyway
19:48.58TodPunkKDE is Windows.  Gnome 3 is Mac.
19:49.05TodPunkPick your watered down poison
19:49.26TodPunk(My sweeping generalizations are very helpful, yes)
19:49.31aeryndunhamlikes KDE and Mac :p
19:50.02aeryndunhamGnome is about the only DE I don't like
19:50.48TodPunkI don't care about any of them as long as they get out of my way and let me run the applications I need
19:51.49aeryndunhamI've dabbled in most DEs, KDE has stuck
19:52.09romanovicsame here.  been using the default gnome 3 on debian for years now
19:52.28aeryndunhammy distro of choice likes kde as well
19:52.31aeryndunhamalthough there is a gnome version
19:52.45romanovicdidn't exactly shop around, gnome was just the default and has never gotten in my way
19:53.53aeryndunhamdid excessive distro-hopping :p
19:54.02aeryndunhamI could be happy with any, though, most likely
19:54.20TodPunkI would love to make Ubuntu put the X button on the right side, I would love to have the launcher go away and just use the taskbar like normal DEs, but these are minor issues
19:54.53TodPunkLinux is mostly browser+IDE+commandline land for me, though
19:55.38TodPunkreal applications I use on Windows, where the not-dev work is done (dev work is also done there in addition to my linux dev work, mind)
19:56.36aeryndunhamI want to start doing my dev work (I use 'work' loosely though :p ) on Linux but it's all set up on mac already
19:57.53unumwindows is for trouble shooting issues my more windows experienced colleages need me to figure out for them
19:58.00unumeverythnig else is linux
19:58.08unumthough that may change if I get CIV VI
19:58.53aeryndunhamhahaha I want Civ VI so bad :p
20:00.01unumI'm not very nice when the manager who blocked openoffice.org in his department because he's not familiar with, come looking for help with MS Office
20:00.02TodPunkmac is linux with a usable DE
20:00.13TodPunkand a less usable commandline
20:00.27jimaTodPunk: i agree with both of these statements.
20:00.50jimai hate osx, but that's beside the point.
20:00.51TodPunkOh, yesterday I was helping my boss install node
20:00.57TodPunkwe're on linux at the office
20:01.17TodPunkI kept having to explain to him that everything was the way it was because they were all mac users
20:02.08TodPunklike it being a tar.xz, or not having an installer except a curl-to-bash command, or why it couldn't find anything if you didn't install things to global
20:32.36*** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51)
20:36.41aeryndunhamAlrighty. Shift over, errands run. Now to solve 4 days worth of Advent of Code with minimal cheating :p
20:40.20programmerq4 days?
20:44.02goozbacheightyeight: suggestions on security key like yubikey?
20:45.47programmerqwhat don't you like about yubikey?
20:46.02goozbachI don't dislike it
20:46.09goozbachjust wondering what my options are
20:46.13programmerqah
20:46.17programmerqwhat are your requirements?
20:46.25goozbachnot sure yet
20:46.29goozbachwanting to lock stuff down
20:46.51goozbachjust "hey I should investigate this thing"
20:46.56programmerqah
20:47.05goozbachI borked up a keybase updated and completely revoked my main gpg key
20:47.17goozbachand it's forced me to re-think some of these things
20:47.32aeryndunhamprogrammerq: I meant 2. Typing fail.
20:49.22eightyeightgoozbach: what do you mean by "lock stuff down"? are you looking just for 2fa? or something more?
20:49.35goozbacheightyeight: I don't know what I don't know
20:49.53goozbachfirst things first i need a new gpg key
20:50.15goozbachso I started down the "ohh I should do some sort of 2fa for my password store"
20:50.20programmerqI need to revoke my current gpg key and rotate everything out.
20:50.20eightyeighti don't have any experience with smart cards storing a gpg key
20:50.29eightyeightbut i know a yubikey model can do it
20:50.45programmerqit can indeed.
20:50.51goozbachthis https://plus.google.com/+gregkroahhartman/posts/WK6ZLEhfQo5 and this https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4ls94a/yubico_has_replaced_all_opensource_components/
20:50.55programmerqyou can also use a yubikey to store your root key when using docker content trust.
20:50.59goozbachconcerns me about the yubikeey
20:51.24eightyeightgoozbach: yeah. the fact that they went proprietarded, because "obscurity", is garbage
20:52.03frostyfrogDarn, missed the tablet discussion :/ Ah well.
20:54.13goozbachI've just reset all of my google passwords and enabled 2fa with authenticator
20:54.30goozbachand all my passwords are in lastpass
20:54.38goozbachI'd like to move away from lastpass
20:54.51goozbachmaybe
20:55.26spangbornlol https://twitter.com/XMission/status/804742962601000960
21:00.16frostyfrogI'd like a lastpass that I could host myself, along with having the yubikey 2FA.
21:00.34programmerqagreed
21:00.54programmerqI'd also like a mint.com I could host myself, and a mightytext I can host myself, and an irccloud I can host myself
21:01.07programmerqsome of those things do have options, but they aren't 1:1 replacements.
21:01.19spangbornprogrammerq: For the latter, look into The Lounge (what I'm using presently)
21:01.32spangbornnode.js based IRC webclient
21:01.40programmerqdoes it have an android app?
21:02.05spangbornYou could use whatever IRC client you wanted with ZNC sitting on a server
21:02.21spangbornI've got Palaver (iOS) -> ZNC and The Lounge -> ZNC
21:02.27programmerqright, but I don't like the ZNC approach, and I don't know of a good android irc client
21:02.40programmerqmost ZNCs that I've seen will push everything to the client as soon as it connects
21:02.50programmerqso my phone might get some messages, and my desktop might get others
21:02.55programmerqand it has to muck with the timestamps
21:03.01programmerqI don't like ZNCs
21:03.03spangbornDepends on how you have it configured
21:03.09programmerqright now I use weechat in tmux
21:03.11programmerqwhich is great
21:03.17jholtomI'm using the lounge rn on my phone, works great. Only problem is it's really shitty woth logs
21:03.29spangbornjholtom: Yeah, they're working on it :)
21:03.36programmerqthe only features from irccloud that I feel like I'm missing out on is a polished mobile app with notifications.
21:03.50spangbornLots of ZNC plugins for Push
21:04.02jholtomI really like quassel
21:04.22jholtomAndroid app, web app, desktop app and great logging in pgsql
21:07.11frostyfrogZNC plugins with push?! o.o
21:07.36spangbornWorks for Palaver on iOS :)
21:07.41leviHeh, people wanting "open" tablets.
21:08.23programmerqjholtom▸ is quassel still actively developed?
21:08.40jholtomYes
21:41.32TodPunkI use Quassel currently as well
21:42.45aeryndunhamI've never used Quassel but I've heard good things
22:40.24romanoviclevi: give me my open tablet NOW
22:41.51eightyeightgoozbach: re: lastpass, checkout keepass. it just recently passed its security audit, and no security vulnerabilities found
22:42.37goozbachlikely to move to keepass
22:42.44goozbachwould like the auto-typer to work though
22:42.50goozbachdoes the new version autotyper work
22:45.38frostyfrog's question is, do I still have to manually copy the DB from machine to machine.
23:02.33*** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51)
23:15.09aeryndunhamDoes anyone here Python?
23:17.00programmerqyup
23:20.06aeryndunham(I find the python channels gigantic and scary - and I have probably a stupid question)
23:22.14TodPunkyes
23:23.00aeryndunhamIf I have a list of coordinates (like L5, R2, R2) (yes, I'm still stuck on AoC day one), how do I get it to like, separate? And look at the direction and then the number. I'm sure this is basic. Or I'm looking at it all wrong.
23:29.23TodPunkis it a list, or a string, or what?
23:29.57TodPunkIs it literall: ['L5', 'R2', 'R2'] or is it 'L5, R2, R2'
23:30.49TodPunkIf it's the later, split() and replace() are your friends here
23:30.55TodPunk*latter
23:30.55aeryndunhamit's ust L5, R2, R2
23:31.06aeryndunhamgoogles split() and replace()

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