04:11.58 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
04:11.58 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
04:11.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
06:00.28 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@174-23-219-250.slkc.qwest.net) |
07:56.01 | klys | ~slashdot |
14:27.16 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
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16:19.06 | unum | http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/legal-raids-in-five-countries-seize-botnet-servers-sinkhole-800000-domains/ |
16:19.16 | unum | I think I know why I suddenly saw a drop in spam |
16:20.16 | jlp_znc | don't say anything about it, you'll jinx it! |
16:33.34 | programmerq | I had to submit my answer twice on today's AOC |
16:51.05 | spangborn | lmao comcast https://twitter.com/yipe/status/804719586788528129 |
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17:13.33 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
17:18.10 | aeryndunham | A passenger just asked me if I'm open on Saturday. Ohhhhh how I wish I could have said no :p |
17:20.10 | spangborn | Open like open heart surgery? |
17:20.38 | TodPunk | Open like, open to new ideas? |
17:24.14 | aeryndunham | open for business. I guess she thought maybe the internet cafe closed on weekends :p |
17:25.47 | spangborn | Haha |
17:26.41 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
17:37.07 | aeryndunham | Ahhaha, I've got Atom open working on a website and a guest just asked if I was a hacker |
17:37.35 | frostyfrog | xD |
17:37.57 | spangborn | 1337 |
17:38.03 | frostyfrog | "I hack together code, if that's what you mean" x3 |
17:38.19 | aeryndunham | lol |
17:38.26 | aeryndunham | my CSS is actually deeeeeecent :p |
17:39.05 | spangborn | I got asked by an architect-level developer what "clear:both;" does this week |
17:39.28 | aeryndunham | wow |
17:39.31 | frostyfrog | both? What about up and down? /shot |
17:39.39 | spangborn | lol |
17:40.08 | aeryndunham | I keep meaning to make myself use Sass but eh I'm lazy (although I do understand that it is easier in the long run :p ) |
17:40.11 | frostyfrog | That makes sense, actually. Especially if their dealing with lower level code and not web stuff. |
17:40.27 | spangborn | SASS is bae |
17:40.28 | spangborn | <3 |
17:40.34 | frostyfrog | It's like functions and nesting for CSS |
17:40.39 | aeryndunham | I have used it, and I liked it well enough |
17:40.47 | frostyfrog | I use it JUST for the nesting aspect. |
17:40.59 | aeryndunham | but by the time I remember to use it I'm halfway through the stylesheet |
17:41.03 | TodPunk | LESS>SASS |
17:41.04 | aeryndunham | yeah, nesting and variables for colors was nice |
17:41.10 | aeryndunham | I didn't get into mixins really at all |
17:41.44 | TodPunk | ~brave-- |
17:41.51 | spangborn | LESS is trash brah |
17:41.55 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
17:42.13 | spangborn | I mean it's in the name, it's less useful |
17:42.16 | TodPunk | LESS wasn't written with ruby. This makes it superior to most things |
17:42.34 | aeryndunham | lol |
17:42.36 | TodPunk | (this is also largely the only difference I could find between the two) |
17:42.40 | aeryndunham | loves programmer wars |
17:42.54 | aeryndunham | about which very similar thing is superior |
17:42.55 | spangborn | Less is open source. Its first version was written in Ruby; |
17:42.55 | TodPunk | likes to casually throw them out |
17:42.58 | spangborn | It was actually ;p |
17:43.19 | TodPunk | I give them credit for repenting for their sins |
17:43.42 | spangborn | Does it make it better or worse that the current implementation is Javascript? |
17:43.53 | TodPunk | better, easily |
17:43.58 | TodPunk | and I hate JS |
17:44.17 | TodPunk | but i'm already using it, so it's one less dependency |
17:44.52 | aeryndunham | hates javascript and so logically chose a CMS/blog host that runs on node.js :p |
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17:49.00 | jima | TodPunk: and with your "C++ in the browser" tweet, you've reliquished any right to judge youtah ;-) |
17:52.28 | aeryndunham | c++ in the browser?? |
17:52.31 | aeryndunham | shudders |
17:52.39 | jima | https://twitter.com/todpunk/status/804738480706195456 |
17:52.44 | jima | judge away! |
17:52.56 | TodPunk | *coughemscriptencough* |
17:53.15 | TodPunk | Wait, why am I being judged for hating C++ and Javascript? |
17:53.49 | jima | you're being judged for musing over whether C++ would be any better in the browser. |
17:53.59 | TodPunk | oh |
17:54.02 | TodPunk | well that's fine |
17:54.13 | aeryndunham | folows more people on thw twitters :p |
17:54.27 | jima | i don't think anyone sane would judge you for hating either C++ or javascript |
17:54.29 | TodPunk | (it literally was musing about emscripten games from humble bundle, but generalized, so I'm fine with this judgement) |
17:55.20 | jima | C++ + browser generally = extension/plugin afaik |
17:55.26 | frostyfrog | Well, there's also the native extensions that chrome allows... |
17:55.33 | jima | frostyfrog: beat you to it! |
17:56.21 | TodPunk | frostyfrog: that API is dead, I think |
17:57.02 | TodPunk | jima: https://support.humblebundle.com/hc/en-us/articles/203331430-Humble-Mozilla-Bundle-Powered-by-asm-js-System-Requirements |
17:57.13 | TodPunk | All of these games run natively in your browser using only javascript |
17:57.37 | TodPunk | despite often being in C++ or the like |
17:57.37 | frostyfrog | https://developer.chrome.com/native-client |
17:57.41 | jima | TodPunk: ok, i had nfc what you were talking about |
17:58.39 | TodPunk | frostyfrog: "On October 12, 2016, a comment on the Chromium issue tracker indicated that Google's Pepper and Native Client teams had been destaffed." |
18:00.32 | frostyfrog | Ah, well. Either way, from my understanding, the nethack extension and the flash plugin both use the API. |
18:00.41 | TodPunk | at the moment |
18:00.59 | TodPunk | webassembly, for good or ill, is how that will be in the future =c/ |
18:01.06 | frostyfrog | Great... |
18:01.19 | frostyfrog | now imagines flash being rewritten in javascript... |
18:02.01 | TodPunk | just the engine, and it would probably use emscripten to compile it to asm.js |
18:02.14 | TodPunk | as I recall this has already been demonstrated to work |
18:02.29 | TodPunk | you do lose some of the APIs, though |
18:02.36 | TodPunk | so you can't use OS calls for instance |
18:06.39 | aeryndunham | oh flexbox don't fail me now |
18:11.27 | aeryndunham | has a brain fail on how to upload custom fonts to a website. Been using Google Fonts waaaay too much :P |
18:23.39 | TodPunk | Hey, there's a thing I know nothing about! |
18:26.13 | aeryndunham | I'm not faring much better right now :p |
18:26.18 | aeryndunham | what I just did should have worked, I think |
18:26.27 | romanovic | on the topic of clunky web technology, I'm really upset about my company's timesheet entry software. We were on an old version that was java-based, but had a basic html alternative (which is what everyone used) |
18:27.05 | romanovic | this week they "upgraded" to a "new" timesheet entry page, which is flash based. I want to throw someone out the window. |
18:27.36 | aeryndunham | Upgraded to..... Flash? In 2016? |
18:27.52 | romanovic | yah! it is crazy talk! |
18:29.02 | aeryndunham | ok @font-face what is your proble |
18:29.38 | frostyfrog | Flash is a nice technology. ;p |
18:29.55 | TodPunk | ah, flash, how fun |
18:30.05 | aeryndunham | .... the fonts wanted to be in the CSS folder. OK, the/ |
18:36.55 | jlp_znc | so, I'm looking at changing insurance companies... going through geico's quote generator and it wants to know what I do for a living. |
18:37.24 | jlp_znc | I tell it "DevOps" and the closest match it can come up with is "Sandwich Shop Manager" |
18:37.39 | spangborn | Close enough |
18:37.50 | jlp_znc | that's what I thought, too, after some pondering |
18:41.41 | aeryndunham | lol |
19:04.43 | aeryndunham | whoo boy the new cruise director is teaching a dance class outside my internet cafe and it's, uh, rough |
19:07.11 | aeryndunham | huh, my border-radius only rounded the top corners. I wonder why. |
19:13.47 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: because of instructor or students? |
19:14.37 | aeryndunham | TodPunk: Instructor. The new cruise director is reallly young (for a cruise director), and brand-new, and this is the flagship at Chrismas so passenger expectations are HUUGE and she's just really awkward to listen to. |
19:14.46 | aeryndunham | I mean she's probably terrified |
19:15.05 | aeryndunham | And all the good cruise directors probably want to be home at Christmas |
19:15.18 | TodPunk | hehehehe, passenger expectations |
19:18.02 | aeryndunham | they're there, though |
19:20.40 | aeryndunham | it's crazy how much I enjoy working on even the most boring website |
19:33.44 | aeryndunham | It's tough, I find the realllly old, really computer illiterate are more likely to have Kindle Fires than iPads or Samsungs, whatever, and Fires are the only device where I can't create a homescreen "LOGOUT" shortcut for them, and so they keep forgetting to go back to their browser to type logout.com and losing all their minutes :( |
19:34.31 | jholtom | that sounds like you have a god awful network |
19:35.30 | jholtom | also this should allow you to do it |
19:35.33 | jholtom | even if they are using silk |
19:35.34 | jholtom | https://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx12ZFM55YQVDO |
19:35.39 | aeryndunham | To log out, you need to go back to the initial 'connection successful' screen and press a logout button, or you type logout.com in the browser - but this is too difficult for most people so we create homesreen shortcuts to logout.com for them to press |
19:37.47 | aeryndunham | jholtom: We usually do add as a favorite on Kindles, it's all we can do, but that's too hard for them too |
19:37.55 | jholtom | u what. |
19:37.58 | jholtom | y'know |
19:38.02 | jholtom | I'm just gonna go back to going to space |
19:38.03 | jholtom | its more fun |
19:38.37 | aeryndunham | (I am fully confident that this stuff is NOT too difficult for the elderly, they have just all DECIDED that it's too hard, their kids/grandkids coddle this by making shortcuts for everything, and then they are on vacation and refuse to read or think) |
19:38.42 | romanovic | what sort of tablets do the computer _literate_ users use? |
19:38.49 | jholtom | we don't use them |
19:39.02 | jholtom | (ok, I have a BB playbook, don't kill me) |
19:39.20 | aeryndunham | It's not like our passengers are great on any tablet, but it's only the suuuuuper old that have Fires, for whatever reason |
19:40.07 | romanovic | has been looking at buying his first tablet, ever |
19:40.14 | jholtom | my recommendation is to not |
19:40.20 | jholtom | unless you can find a use case for it |
19:40.21 | romanovic | I don't even know what the best (non-iOS) options are |
19:40.27 | jholtom | that wouldn't be better served by a laptop |
19:40.38 | jholtom | I got my playbook free, and I don't use it |
19:40.55 | jholtom | I used the original asus transformer for several years in place of a laptop, but it layed down 11 hours of battery and a keyboard |
19:40.55 | aeryndunham | I don't see too many tablets that I like |
19:41.12 | romanovic | I do. I want something I can pick up and watch netflix on at home, because our TV now runs "wheels on the bus" exclusively |
19:41.24 | jholtom | then get an ipad |
19:41.29 | romanovic | no |
19:41.39 | jholtom | you'll be sorely disappointed with the other options |
19:41.50 | jholtom | i guess there's the pixel and n9 or whatever |
19:41.52 | romanovic | I'm disappointed with ipads. my wife had one |
19:41.54 | aeryndunham | I don't see too many Android tablets that don't suck |
19:42.17 | jholtom | then just get a chromebook |
19:42.20 | romanovic | are there any non-android linux tablets? |
19:42.26 | jholtom | romanovic: hahahahaa no. |
19:42.39 | unum | what's wrong with android tablets? |
19:42.41 | jholtom | I guess you could run linux on one of the windows tablets thats x86 |
19:42.47 | jholtom | unum: have you ever seen the interface scale? |
19:43.01 | jholtom | or the dramatic underpowering, bloating of the tablet skins? |
19:43.05 | jholtom | see: samsung, everyone else |
19:43.16 | romanovic | unum: I'm fine with owning an android tablet. but if most of them are low quality I'll look for something else |
19:43.21 | romanovic | looks at https://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/devices |
19:43.25 | jholtom | lmao |
19:43.28 | jholtom | thats even worse romanovic |
19:43.44 | jholtom | ubuntu touch is a shitshow. |
19:44.04 | jholtom | also > mediatek |
19:44.07 | unum | I have a kindle I won several years ago |
19:44.09 | unum | it's been fine |
19:44.16 | unum | but I guess I don't really ever use it |
19:44.22 | romanovic | I want something that is open, can run a plex app, and has enough storage I can cache large bundles of my tv shows for offline/non-streaming viewing |
19:44.25 | unum | but it works for netflix |
19:44.28 | romanovic | and netflix. |
19:44.32 | unum | it gets used for that and pbs kids |
19:44.36 | jima | my last android tablet's getting a little long in the tooth...nearly unusable after the last few updates |
19:45.06 | unum | ok it's time to update the payroll code |
19:46.19 | aeryndunham | I love the idea of a Linux tablet but the existing ones don't look great |
19:46.46 | romanovic | and I want to be able to side-load any app I want, without some sort of jailbreaking process (ipads are out) |
19:46.51 | TodPunk | Linux tablet is a no-go |
19:47.12 | TodPunk | open source people can't do a user interface to save their lives |
19:47.43 | aeryndunham | I have noticed that |
19:47.57 | TodPunk | Given the number of people into UI design with some expertise, I don't know why this isn't simpler |
19:48.02 | aeryndunham | well I do think KDE is nice looking |
19:48.04 | TodPunk | probably because everyone wants every bad idea, too |
19:48.34 | TodPunk | "But I need it to do this other thing in my one environment." Um... I can't make that look good. That is a bad idea. "But..." |
19:48.46 | TodPunk | That's my theory for today, anyway |
19:48.58 | TodPunk | KDE is Windows. Gnome 3 is Mac. |
19:49.05 | TodPunk | Pick your watered down poison |
19:49.26 | TodPunk | (My sweeping generalizations are very helpful, yes) |
19:49.31 | aeryndunham | likes KDE and Mac :p |
19:50.02 | aeryndunham | Gnome is about the only DE I don't like |
19:50.48 | TodPunk | I don't care about any of them as long as they get out of my way and let me run the applications I need |
19:51.49 | aeryndunham | I've dabbled in most DEs, KDE has stuck |
19:52.09 | romanovic | same here. been using the default gnome 3 on debian for years now |
19:52.28 | aeryndunham | my distro of choice likes kde as well |
19:52.31 | aeryndunham | although there is a gnome version |
19:52.45 | romanovic | didn't exactly shop around, gnome was just the default and has never gotten in my way |
19:53.53 | aeryndunham | did excessive distro-hopping :p |
19:54.02 | aeryndunham | I could be happy with any, though, most likely |
19:54.20 | TodPunk | I would love to make Ubuntu put the X button on the right side, I would love to have the launcher go away and just use the taskbar like normal DEs, but these are minor issues |
19:54.53 | TodPunk | Linux is mostly browser+IDE+commandline land for me, though |
19:55.38 | TodPunk | real applications I use on Windows, where the not-dev work is done (dev work is also done there in addition to my linux dev work, mind) |
19:56.36 | aeryndunham | I want to start doing my dev work (I use 'work' loosely though :p ) on Linux but it's all set up on mac already |
19:57.53 | unum | windows is for trouble shooting issues my more windows experienced colleages need me to figure out for them |
19:58.00 | unum | everythnig else is linux |
19:58.08 | unum | though that may change if I get CIV VI |
19:58.53 | aeryndunham | hahaha I want Civ VI so bad :p |
20:00.01 | unum | I'm not very nice when the manager who blocked openoffice.org in his department because he's not familiar with, come looking for help with MS Office |
20:00.02 | TodPunk | mac is linux with a usable DE |
20:00.13 | TodPunk | and a less usable commandline |
20:00.27 | jima | TodPunk: i agree with both of these statements. |
20:00.50 | jima | i hate osx, but that's beside the point. |
20:00.51 | TodPunk | Oh, yesterday I was helping my boss install node |
20:00.57 | TodPunk | we're on linux at the office |
20:01.17 | TodPunk | I kept having to explain to him that everything was the way it was because they were all mac users |
20:02.08 | TodPunk | like it being a tar.xz, or not having an installer except a curl-to-bash command, or why it couldn't find anything if you didn't install things to global |
20:32.36 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
20:36.41 | aeryndunham | Alrighty. Shift over, errands run. Now to solve 4 days worth of Advent of Code with minimal cheating :p |
20:40.20 | programmerq | 4 days? |
20:44.02 | goozbach | eightyeight: suggestions on security key like yubikey? |
20:45.47 | programmerq | what don't you like about yubikey? |
20:46.02 | goozbach | I don't dislike it |
20:46.09 | goozbach | just wondering what my options are |
20:46.13 | programmerq | ah |
20:46.17 | programmerq | what are your requirements? |
20:46.25 | goozbach | not sure yet |
20:46.29 | goozbach | wanting to lock stuff down |
20:46.51 | goozbach | just "hey I should investigate this thing" |
20:46.56 | programmerq | ah |
20:47.05 | goozbach | I borked up a keybase updated and completely revoked my main gpg key |
20:47.17 | goozbach | and it's forced me to re-think some of these things |
20:47.32 | aeryndunham | programmerq: I meant 2. Typing fail. |
20:49.22 | eightyeight | goozbach: what do you mean by "lock stuff down"? are you looking just for 2fa? or something more? |
20:49.35 | goozbach | eightyeight: I don't know what I don't know |
20:49.53 | goozbach | first things first i need a new gpg key |
20:50.15 | goozbach | so I started down the "ohh I should do some sort of 2fa for my password store" |
20:50.20 | programmerq | I need to revoke my current gpg key and rotate everything out. |
20:50.20 | eightyeight | i don't have any experience with smart cards storing a gpg key |
20:50.29 | eightyeight | but i know a yubikey model can do it |
20:50.45 | programmerq | it can indeed. |
20:50.51 | goozbach | this https://plus.google.com/+gregkroahhartman/posts/WK6ZLEhfQo5 and this https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4ls94a/yubico_has_replaced_all_opensource_components/ |
20:50.55 | programmerq | you can also use a yubikey to store your root key when using docker content trust. |
20:50.59 | goozbach | concerns me about the yubikeey |
20:51.24 | eightyeight | goozbach: yeah. the fact that they went proprietarded, because "obscurity", is garbage |
20:52.03 | frostyfrog | Darn, missed the tablet discussion :/ Ah well. |
20:54.13 | goozbach | I've just reset all of my google passwords and enabled 2fa with authenticator |
20:54.30 | goozbach | and all my passwords are in lastpass |
20:54.38 | goozbach | I'd like to move away from lastpass |
20:54.51 | goozbach | maybe |
20:55.26 | spangborn | lol https://twitter.com/XMission/status/804742962601000960 |
21:00.16 | frostyfrog | I'd like a lastpass that I could host myself, along with having the yubikey 2FA. |
21:00.34 | programmerq | agreed |
21:00.54 | programmerq | I'd also like a mint.com I could host myself, and a mightytext I can host myself, and an irccloud I can host myself |
21:01.07 | programmerq | some of those things do have options, but they aren't 1:1 replacements. |
21:01.19 | spangborn | programmerq: For the latter, look into The Lounge (what I'm using presently) |
21:01.32 | spangborn | node.js based IRC webclient |
21:01.40 | programmerq | does it have an android app? |
21:02.05 | spangborn | You could use whatever IRC client you wanted with ZNC sitting on a server |
21:02.21 | spangborn | I've got Palaver (iOS) -> ZNC and The Lounge -> ZNC |
21:02.27 | programmerq | right, but I don't like the ZNC approach, and I don't know of a good android irc client |
21:02.40 | programmerq | most ZNCs that I've seen will push everything to the client as soon as it connects |
21:02.50 | programmerq | so my phone might get some messages, and my desktop might get others |
21:02.55 | programmerq | and it has to muck with the timestamps |
21:03.01 | programmerq | I don't like ZNCs |
21:03.03 | spangborn | Depends on how you have it configured |
21:03.09 | programmerq | right now I use weechat in tmux |
21:03.11 | programmerq | which is great |
21:03.17 | jholtom | I'm using the lounge rn on my phone, works great. Only problem is it's really shitty woth logs |
21:03.29 | spangborn | jholtom: Yeah, they're working on it :) |
21:03.36 | programmerq | the only features from irccloud that I feel like I'm missing out on is a polished mobile app with notifications. |
21:03.50 | spangborn | Lots of ZNC plugins for Push |
21:04.02 | jholtom | I really like quassel |
21:04.22 | jholtom | Android app, web app, desktop app and great logging in pgsql |
21:07.11 | frostyfrog | ZNC plugins with push?! o.o |
21:07.36 | spangborn | Works for Palaver on iOS :) |
21:07.41 | levi | Heh, people wanting "open" tablets. |
21:08.23 | programmerq | jholtom⸠is quassel still actively developed? |
21:08.40 | jholtom | Yes |
21:41.32 | TodPunk | I use Quassel currently as well |
21:42.45 | aeryndunham | I've never used Quassel but I've heard good things |
22:40.24 | romanovic | levi: give me my open tablet NOW |
22:41.51 | eightyeight | goozbach: re: lastpass, checkout keepass. it just recently passed its security audit, and no security vulnerabilities found |
22:42.37 | goozbach | likely to move to keepass |
22:42.44 | goozbach | would like the auto-typer to work though |
22:42.50 | goozbach | does the new version autotyper work |
22:45.38 | frostyfrog | 's question is, do I still have to manually copy the DB from machine to machine. |
23:02.33 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
23:15.09 | aeryndunham | Does anyone here Python? |
23:17.00 | programmerq | yup |
23:20.06 | aeryndunham | (I find the python channels gigantic and scary - and I have probably a stupid question) |
23:22.14 | TodPunk | yes |
23:23.00 | aeryndunham | If I have a list of coordinates (like L5, R2, R2) (yes, I'm still stuck on AoC day one), how do I get it to like, separate? And look at the direction and then the number. I'm sure this is basic. Or I'm looking at it all wrong. |
23:29.23 | TodPunk | is it a list, or a string, or what? |
23:29.57 | TodPunk | Is it literall: ['L5', 'R2', 'R2'] or is it 'L5, R2, R2' |
23:30.49 | TodPunk | If it's the later, split() and replace() are your friends here |
23:30.55 | TodPunk | *latter |
23:30.55 | aeryndunham | it's ust L5, R2, R2 |
23:31.06 | aeryndunham | googles split() and replace() |