| 00:14.19 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
| 00:14.36 | aeryndunham | flops |
| 00:18.15 | TodPunk | like a politician? |
| 00:18.39 | aeryndunham | Like an overly anxious sad internet cafe manager :( |
| 00:18.55 | TodPunk | drink some tea and breathe |
| 00:19.19 | aeryndunham | 2 more hours of work, and then I shall |
| 00:23.57 | aeryndunham | Internet is being really bad today and people are mean |
| 00:25.14 | aeryndunham | and I keep snapping and I hate myself for it :( |
| 00:58.38 | romanovic | aeryndunham: Interesting how people see you as the face of all their internet problems. "I can't find my aol, it's that lady at the internet cafe" |
| 00:59.23 | aeryndunham | It is really bad today |
| 00:59.36 | aeryndunham | But... I'm just on the verge of tears or a homicidal rampage, not sure which |
| 01:04.47 | romanovic | you should make your own meme. "Can't email my 400 12-megapixel full-res images... thanks Internet Lady" |
| 01:07.16 | aeryndunham | haha I should |
| 01:07.52 | aeryndunham | But I distinctly dislike myself at the moment |
| 01:08.22 | aeryndunham | Trying to become this perfect example of patience and grace and failing miserably |
| 01:09.26 | aeryndunham | (I know that's unrealistic) |
| 01:15.54 | levi | Heh, the left and alt-right twitterverses are freaking out right now over Glenn Beck. |
| 01:16.06 | aeryndunham | what he do this time? |
| 01:17.37 | levi | He had an interview with the New Yorker where he sympathized with Black Lives Matter, said Pres. Obama made him a better man, and said Michelle Obama's speech in response to Trump's groping revelation was inspirational like unto Reagan. |
| 01:18.03 | aeryndunham | wow |
| 01:18.18 | aeryndunham | That was a GREAT Michelle Obama speech |
| 01:18.20 | aeryndunham | btu wow |
| 01:19.36 | levi | I guess lately he's freaking out over the alt-right conspiracies rather than the left conspiracies or something, or maybe he's just distanced himself from his former extremism once he started his own media network. |
| 01:27.16 | levi | I don't expect this is a long-term change of view on his part... he's predisposed to see the world in some conspiracy or other against his values, and he's ridiculously credulous when it comes to rumors about such conspiracies. |
| 01:27.52 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~aeryndunh@151.124.47.51) |
| 01:28.25 | aeryndunham | I just had to show someone how to use the mouse |
| 01:29.24 | levi | There can't be too many people remaining who need to be shown how to use a mouse. Lucky you! ;) |
| 01:30.03 | aeryndunham | haha |
| 01:30.07 | aeryndunham | they ALL sail here :p |
| 01:34.25 | romanovic | I'm not very familiar with Glenn Beck, but I think half of the explanation may be that Trump has pulled the right wingers so far out that many conservatives now look where they are standing and think, "hey! I'm a moderate now!" |
| 01:36.10 | romanovic | aeryndunham: haha, actually, that is one class of user we also deal with where I work. If we release any new feature that can't be accessed by tab or keyboard shortcut, they call and complain |
| 01:36.31 | aeryndunham | haha |
| 01:36.33 | romanovic | although for them it is speed of data entry rather than mouse familiarity that drives the complaints |
| 01:39.53 | levi | The people who have now coalesced into the alt-right were eating up Glenn Beck's conspiracy nonsense and slander of the Obamas when he feeding it to them, but now he sees what that has wrought and they're going to tear him to shreds. |
| 01:56.14 | levi | Old-school Glenn Beck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRiSHLnjdLI |
| 02:03.59 | levi | His crazy chalkboard rants were epic. |
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| 14:18.06 | eightyeight | 15/32: The Rongorongo script of Easter Island- https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/795992310441857025 |
| 14:28.49 | *** join/#utah BitBandit (~BitBandit@50-198-187-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:18.55 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:56.03 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (~jonathan@45.56.57.85) |
| 17:06.42 | SunSparc | ~vote |
| 17:07.06 | spangborn | for pedro |
| 17:07.13 | spangborn | ~pedro++ |
| 17:07.18 | SunSparc | Yes |
| 17:07.56 | SunSparc | ~vote Pedro |
| 17:07.56 | infobot | ACTION stuffs Pedro in a ballot box |
| 17:12.26 | spangborn | ~youtah-- |
| 17:12.29 | spangborn | ~karma youtah |
| 17:12.29 | infobot | youtah has karma of 4 |
| 17:12.34 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 17:18.52 | *** join/#utah BitBandit (~BitBandit@50-198-187-221-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:41.02 | klys | http://45.55.20.239/2016-votes.txt |
| 17:42.59 | eightyeight | so much for secret ballot |
| 17:48.51 | spangborn | Weinholtz and Mike Lee, eh |
| 17:48.56 | spangborn | That's an interesting position |
| 17:49.43 | spangborn | Curious as to your reasoning for voting for C |
| 17:49.49 | eightyeight | and against A and B |
| 17:50.06 | eightyeight | from the opinions i've heard, that's flip/flopped |
| 17:50.08 | spangborn | Indeed |
| 17:50.14 | spangborn | I voted for A, against B, against C |
| 17:50.25 | spangborn | shrugs |
| 17:50.57 | eightyeight | i've heard strong support for A, 50/50 for/against on B, and strong against on C |
| 17:51.15 | spangborn | Yeah, B was one I wasn't too sure about |
| 17:51.23 | spangborn | Which I usually lean toward against in that case |
| 17:51.43 | spangborn | If there isn't a compelling argument for, I go against |
| 17:55.08 | klys | I'm against A because I am a citizen of "Utah State" not the "State of Utah" which is a corporate entity or so I have been told. |
| 17:55.50 | programmerq | I didn't realize that utah gave out citizenship |
| 17:56.46 | klys | I'm for C because I would like to own property the government borrows for educational purposes and not be taxed for it...that should like a great opportunity to learn from things which aren't "school property." |
| 17:57.10 | klys | sounds like* |
| 17:57.16 | spangborn | klys: Doesn't it seem like C is ambiguously written to give a benefit to someone close to the state? |
| 17:57.21 | spangborn | That's how it felt to me, anyway |
| 17:57.42 | klys | C is written very concisely and includes no major revisions |
| 17:57.57 | spangborn | Just seems like it benefits people who can buy up a shit ton of land they know the state will want and then lease it to them and avoid property tax |
| 17:58.16 | spangborn | Same kind of thing that was happening with UTA board members buying up land UTA would want |
| 17:58.55 | klys | well then they would have to have somewhere to store it, obviously. |
| 17:59.13 | klys | oh, land |
| 17:59.39 | spangborn | It seemed to me like it was ambiguously written with someone in mind |
| 17:59.53 | spangborn | I don't see any reason why it's necessary |
| 18:00.48 | spangborn | Time to teach "engineers" about CSS/HTML |
| 18:03.48 | klys | " It does not allow for the exemption of |
| 18:03.50 | klys | leased real property, such as land or buildings" |
| 18:04.52 | klys | so, no. I'm still in favor of C. |
| 18:21.34 | SunSparc | C > C# |
| 18:23.36 | SunSparc | http://electionresults.utah.gov/elections/federal |
| 18:24.17 | eightyeight | Rust > C |
| 18:27.01 | SunSparc | Lisp > Rust |
| 18:29.29 | unum | http://electionresults.utah.gov/elections/house/51 |
| 18:29.31 | unum | I'm tied!!!! |
| 18:29.48 | RyanE | You're fit to be tied. |
| 18:36.02 | programmerq | there were two "races" that only had one candidate. |
| 18:36.14 | programmerq | one I wrote in "WTF" and the other didn't have a write-in option, so I left it blank. |
| 18:38.04 | SunSparc | unum: Congrats! |
| 18:38.33 | SunSparc | ~vote unum |
| 18:38.33 | infobot | ACTION stuffs unum in a ballot box |
| 18:45.25 | unum | I'm rather found of rest becoming standard |
| 18:45.31 | unum | too bad we gave up on xhtml |
| 18:47.37 | SunSparc | html5 > xhtml |
| 18:48.19 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@fedora/jima) |
| 18:48.34 | SunSparc | unum: Are you one of those few that likes XML? |
| 18:50.08 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:52.18 | eightyeight | how many versions of xhtml were there? |
| 18:52.31 | eightyeight | 1.0 strict, transitional, frameset |
| 18:52.37 | eightyeight | then 1.1, 1.2, ... |
| 18:52.44 | eightyeight | it was like, web dev by committee |
| 18:53.43 | SunSparc | Yeah |
| 18:54.17 | eightyeight | which is also the same problem why DNSSEC, or OpenStack isn't seeing greater adoption |
| 18:54.36 | SunSparc | may or may not have had an xhtml strict validation icon on his resume web page... |
| 18:55.08 | SunSparc | We have been using DNSSEC and SSHFP for a month or so now and we LOVE it. |
| 18:55.21 | eightyeight | you know when you need to use openstack ontop of openstack to deploy openstack... |
| 18:55.24 | eightyeight | you're doing it wrong |
| 18:55.32 | SunSparc | lol |
| 18:55.40 | eightyeight | oh? you think i'm joking? |
| 18:55.47 | SunSparc | :D |
| 18:55.48 | eightyeight | read it, and weep: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TripleO |
| 18:56.07 | SunSparc | turtles all the way down |
| 18:58.37 | eightyeight | OpenStack is what storage looks like, when a CEO, a CFO, and an MBA engineer storage |
| 19:03.47 | programmerq | oh yeah, I remember xhtml |
| 19:03.54 | programmerq | I'd go to great lengths to try to be compliant |
| 19:04.05 | programmerq | and then some weird character out of place in some race condition in the template engine would break it. |
| 19:04.27 | frostyfrog | I would always could for XHTML 1.1 strict |
| 19:04.50 | TodPunk | xhtml was really easy for me to be compliant for, but I never had any of the crazy batshit webdev hype stuff |
| 19:05.18 | TodPunk | even in my PHP days they were all "oh, smarty templates are the future!" and I just could not even care |
| 19:05.32 | TodPunk | did Cake, looked at Laravel, but they were more sane than smarty anyway |
| 19:06.00 | frostyfrog | uses twig when they right something in PHP. |
| 19:06.55 | frostyfrog | before that, I'd do it the same way phpBB does it. PHP within the template file. |
| 19:07.13 | frostyfrog | well, before I found twig at least. |
| 19:07.57 | frostyfrog | Now everyone seems to use composer and namespaces and I'm all, "You know... I think your whole composer thing sucks. I'm not gonna use it" |
| 19:09.07 | frostyfrog | To each their own. |
| 19:12.48 | TodPunk | composer is so weird to me |
| 19:13.36 | TodPunk | "I want PHP packages, but I don't want to just download them once and keep them in my repo, even though that would be the measurably easiest way to do this" |
| 19:20.50 | programmerq | I'm happy not doing manual dependency resolution |
| 19:21.04 | programmerq | it's a common pattern in many languages |
| 19:21.10 | programmerq | python has pip and requirements.txt |
| 19:21.18 | programmerq | ruby has the Gemfile and bundle install |
| 19:21.32 | programmerq | java has maven |
| 19:21.41 | TodPunk | yeah, but php is executing a script, once per request |
| 19:21.49 | programmerq | so? |
| 19:21.53 | TodPunk | if you have a dependency tree you couldn't articulate in an elevator, you're doing it wrong |
| 19:21.54 | programmerq | it still has depenencies |
| 19:22.20 | manithree | So, php wants be one of the cool kids with an artifact repository |
| 19:22.24 | programmerq | as much as I don't like php, it has turned into a general purpose programming language and has a full set of community libraries |
| 19:22.31 | TodPunk | "My script that I execute on every requests is 408,000 lines long, thank god I didn't have to manage all those includes" |
| 19:23.34 | TodPunk | Even if I used some php libs back in the day (I never had a need outside Cake, and that was koolaid drunk by the company), it couldn't have been more than a couple wgets |
| 19:23.40 | TodPunk | once |
| 19:23.48 | programmerq | yeah, your argument makes sense for back in the day for sure |
| 19:24.00 | TodPunk | yes |
| 19:24.05 | programmerq | but modern php is just as involved in its dependencies as any other general purpose programming language |
| 19:24.13 | TodPunk | I never claimed to have current knowledge of the ecosystem because PHP is madness now |
| 19:24.20 | TodPunk | see also: every web dev thing |
| 19:25.04 | TodPunk | note that none of this is plugins FOR php, like imagemagick or something |
| 19:25.10 | TodPunk | it's all just other included php scripts |
| 19:25.14 | programmerq | right |
| 19:25.18 | TodPunk | insanity |
| 19:25.25 | programmerq | but you can declare that you need those plugins in the composer.json file |
| 19:25.41 | programmerq | so you can run sanity checks and get a meaningful error message back |
| 19:26.07 | TodPunk | my environment build scripts did that for me, but I can see the use of it in some uniform format |
| 19:26.13 | programmerq | there are some things that will inspect that and install plugins (I think heroku's buildpack php stuff does this) |
| 19:26.31 | programmerq | yeah, having a common interface is very good for an ecosystem |
| 19:26.51 | TodPunk | makes it easier for the container bullshit web devs love so they don't have to think about sysadmins (until there's a problem and they have no idea what) |
| 19:27.07 | TodPunk | "I'll just spin up an AWS TLA and magic will happen!" |
| 19:27.40 | TodPunk | "Oh, it's not working. I guess I should change config options randomly in this file and retry until it does" |
| 19:28.18 | TodPunk | is mostly just bitter about this phenomena in javascript right now and is taking it out on PHP as a scapegoat |
| 19:28.49 | unum | sorry got distracted |
| 19:28.55 | unum | I like machine readable data |
| 19:29.12 | unum | so having that's both human and machine readable is convient |
| 19:29.17 | programmerq | declaring dependencies is part 2 of the 12 factor app: https://12factor.net/dependencies |
| 19:29.33 | programmerq | I like 12factor |
| 19:29.36 | programmerq | so I like composer |
| 19:29.42 | TodPunk | 12 factors? wtf? |
| 19:29.59 | TodPunk | step 1, write app. step 2, run app. |
| 19:30.15 | programmerq | it's a thing that heroku put out. it's a set of opinions to build a scalable, deployable app. |
| 19:30.17 | TodPunk | everything else is opinion on workflow |
| 19:30.42 | programmerq | but it's fairly common, and the projects that follow (at least most of) this are way easier to work with. |
| 19:32.41 | programmerq | I don't agree with all of the opinions 100%, but most of the points I mostly agree with. |
| 19:45.11 | manithree | If you use AWS autoscale groups (or the like), many of their opinions are absolutely necessary |
| 19:50.14 | TodPunk | 95% of applications do not need that, but I agree if you do need that, it's sort of some required architectural decisions |
| 19:51.25 | TodPunk | then again, 95% of the applications that /do/ need that shouldn't if they had any sense of efficiency. An ARM chip of any power could handle most websites on its own if efficiency were a focus (they'd also take way longer to produce, yes, I know) |
| 19:55.08 | frostyfrog | imagines someone changing some auto-retrieved library's licence from LGPLv2 to GPLv3 and magically forcing companies to open-source their code because the build system automatically pulls in the latest and greatest. |
| 19:55.53 | frostyfrog | s/LGPLv2/YourOpenAndPermissiveLicenseHere/ |
| 19:57.47 | manithree | Or, write some small, but useful javascript library, get LOTS of important libraries to depend on it, then remove it! Oh, wait .. |
| 19:59.31 | programmerq | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8VOM8ET1WU - this was an interesting video |
| 20:03.23 | frostyfrog | That only shook the NPM world and didn't cause any sort of IP damage x3 |
| 20:06.32 | TodPunk | did it need to be from Vox? =c( |
| 20:07.26 | programmerq | honestly asking-- what's wrong with vox? I don't know. it's just one of those youtube channels that I see come up occasionally. |
| 20:08.55 | TodPunk | Just terrible pop-sci mistakes and biased articles (I assume their youtube presence isn't a whole lot more accurate and intellectual than their editorial content) |
| 20:11.08 | TodPunk | programmerq: it's still interesting thus far |
| 20:11.58 | programmerq | at the end, it has a link to a video on authoritarianism and the correlation with trump. |
| 20:13.10 | TodPunk | meh, that's less interesting to me. I already know Trump is authoritarian and unabashed about it. Hillary is moreso but much more subtle |
| 20:32.38 | Migs | um, what do I do if I missed the deadline for sending my mail-in registration? I can still go to a voting location? |
| 20:32.55 | TodPunk | you can't vote if you're not registered |
| 20:32.55 | Migs | er, mail-in ballot, I mean |
| 20:33.01 | TodPunk | oh |
| 20:33.02 | Migs | I did register, to vote by mail |
| 20:33.04 | TodPunk | I think so? |
| 20:33.21 | Migs | ok |
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| 20:39.57 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@2600:100e:b112:9349:227:10ff:fe2d:aa2c) |
| 20:48.18 | SunSparc | programmerq: +1 for 12factor |
| 20:49.58 | unum | salt lake allows same day registration |
| 20:50.09 | unum | s/salt lake/salt lake county |
| 20:50.22 | unum | so if you're not registered you can register and then vote |
| 20:52.17 | unum | you can fill out the ballot and drop it off at a drop box or in person voter location |
| 20:52.23 | unum | or you can go vote in person |
| 20:58.30 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@155.98.164.158) |
| 21:08.50 | SunSparc | But if you have not voted, don't worry about it. I got you covered with my vote. |
| 21:13.42 | *** join/#utah aeryndunham (~jacki@151.124.47.51) |
| 21:37.45 | frostyfrog | I don't think it works that way xD |
| 21:38.20 | spangborn | And I counteracted your vote |
| 21:38.28 | spangborn | Everything you wanted to vote for, I voted against |
| 21:38.53 | aeryndunham | That's probably how my mother voted :p |
| 21:39.00 | aeryndunham | I kid, we probably voted exactly the same |
| 21:52.38 | harleypig | How can I re-add (?) my keys on a remote server in a tmux session? I'm not even sure I'm asking that correctly. |
| 21:53.02 | harleypig | I boot up, ssh-add the various keys I need, ssh in to jump01 and start tmux. |
| 21:53.12 | harleypig | From there I ssh to various other boxes. |
| 21:53.41 | harleypig | Creating a new screen for each ssh session. |
| 21:53.55 | harleypig | ssh-add -l shows proper keys on each remote box. |
| 21:54.32 | harleypig | I close tmux and the next time I boot, I get into tmux on jump01 and the keys show up there, but not in the ssh'd boxes. |
| 21:54.50 | harleypig | So, how do I re-add my keys on those remote boxes? |
| 21:54.54 | harleypig | Does that make any sense? |
| 21:55.41 | harleypig | ForwardAgent yes on jump01 .ssh/config |
| 21:55.44 | fungus | I think you are looking for Agent forwarding |
| 21:56.29 | fungus | On the remote box, does the Agent Environment variable get set? |
| 21:56.44 | fungus | SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/run/user/1000/keyring/ssh |
| 21:56.49 | fungus | or something similar. |
| 21:57.35 | harleypig | Yes, on both jump01 and all the secondary boxes. |
| 22:02.49 | harleypig | Hmmm ... so, if I login to a new session on the secondary boxes a new socket is created, and if I change the variable to match I get my keys back. |
| 22:03.11 | harleypig | But how would I do this without logging in on a new session ... |
| 22:03.22 | fungus | Is your sessions on the secondary boxes starting it's own new agent? |
| 22:03.51 | harleypig | I ... don't know. How would I check? |
| 22:04.13 | fungus | Check through shell startup files. |
| 22:04.29 | fungus | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.49 | harleypig | it doesn't look like (searched for both ssh-agent and ssh-add) |
| 22:06.59 | harleypig | s/like/like it/ |
| 22:08.39 | fungus | I guess you could trace the source of that the hard way. |
| 22:09.00 | fungus | Look at the path specified in the original environment variable and look it up in the "lsof" table. |
| 22:09.07 | harleypig | ouch |
| 22:09.52 | fungus | sudo lsof $SSH_AUTH_SOCK |
| 22:10.17 | fungus | That will identify the PID and creator of the new agent, if any. |
| 22:15.46 | harleypig | How long should this take to run? I don't use lsof that much, but the few times I have, it's started dumping stuff out immediately |
| 22:16.34 | fungus | lsof does DNS lookups on IP addresses and such, which can take a while to timeout. |
| 22:16.57 | harleypig | ah |
| 22:16.59 | fungus | There are two ways to avoid this: 1. specify the path to the file you are looking for 2. add the -n switch. |
| 22:27.17 | harleypig | nada |
| 22:27.21 | harleypig | just hangs |
| 22:31.33 | TodPunk | aeryndunham: I need to know what circumstances you had to teach a person to use a mouse under |
| 22:32.03 | TodPunk | like, how did they not know, why did they suddenly need to learn on a cruise ship of all things, why could they not intuit about it on their own? |
| 22:32.22 | TodPunk | It has two buttons. It's called clicking. WHAT COULD IT MEAN?!?!?! |
| 22:32.27 | aeryndunham | TodPunk: She wanted to check her email "to let her family know she was ok" |
| 22:32.31 | aeryndunham | No phone, no tabet |
| 22:32.40 | aeryndunham | Kept touching the screen, I had to explain it wasn't a touchscreen |
| 22:32.47 | aeryndunham | she stared at the mouse like it was a foreign object |
| 22:33.05 | aeryndunham | She kept clicking the scroll wheel |
| 22:33.13 | TodPunk | So her entire old-lady experience with computing was with a touchscreen? |
| 22:33.37 | aeryndunham | You'd be surprised. A LOT of the old people I work with basically ignored computers for 20+ years until their grandkids bought them an iPad. |
| 22:33.52 | TodPunk | doesn't want to live in this world anymore |
| 22:34.10 | aeryndunham | I really really think that seniors SHOULD have basic computer skills, the Internet woudl open so much up to them (especially those who live alone) |
| 22:34.25 | TodPunk | no kidding |
| 22:34.26 | aeryndunham | but after doing this job for than a year.... they just dont' WANT to know how |
| 22:34.32 | aeryndunham | They've uniformly decided that they are too old |
| 22:34.35 | TodPunk | Just learn to type and get on a chat room with others |
| 22:35.01 | TodPunk | I'm glad to know that in 30 years old people will essentially need no visitation to keep connected when they're useless |
| 22:35.33 | TodPunk | No pushing them out on an ice sheet needed, just give them a tablet or a laptop and let them go to town. |
| 22:36.21 | aeryndunham | I'm mostly bewildered by the people who can't type. Like.... the keyboard layout hasn't changed in their lifetimes, really. Typewriters were the same! |
| 22:37.22 | aeryndunham | The older men have NO IDEA. Typing was clearly their secretary's job. |
| 22:39.46 | aeryndunham | Anyway my job makes me crazy |
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| 23:36.51 | unum | I type on dvorak so when I'm on an other computer I can be abit akward |
| 23:37.18 | unum | I switch around often enough that it's not too bad |