| 13:14.37 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 13:14.37 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
| 13:14.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 15:33.09 | spangborn | Boy there were a lot of trick-or-treaters downtown yesterday |
| 15:33.16 | spangborn | They were all dressed as Donald Trump fans |
| 15:40.02 | manithree | Today's NPR howler: I'm not subject to ACA! Woohoo!! |
| 15:44.50 | eightyeight | https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/791627878676824065 |
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| 18:36.47 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@75-162-99-122.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:44.23 | sjansen | The new MBP is available in space gray, but not with > 16GB RAM. |
| 18:44.35 | sjansen | Something is seriously wrong at Apple. |
| 18:45.55 | jfindlay | ~horse sjansen |
| 18:45.56 | infobot | http://sjansen.horse/ |
| 19:03.46 | levi | I don't disagree that limiting amounts of RAM is bad for a 'Pro' line; on the other hand, needing even 16GB of RAM locally is kind of insane. |
| 19:06.23 | levi | My MBP is a "mid-2014" 13" model with a 3GHz i7 and 16GB. People who want more than 16GB must be doing something significantly different than I am. |
| 19:06.57 | spangborn | levi: Yeah, it's definitely not as necessary with these SSDs, either |
| 19:07.13 | jima | i have 24GB in my work laptop :-\ |
| 19:07.44 | programmerq | it isn't that insane |
| 19:07.52 | programmerq | I tend to run quite a few VMs |
| 19:07.55 | programmerq | it adds up quickly. |
| 19:07.59 | jima | i have 32GB in my work desktop |
| 19:08.14 | programmerq | my mbp is my work desktop |
| 19:08.16 | jima | i think the takeaway from this is "jima's boss is insane" |
| 19:08.44 | spangborn | I just run a VM on a server |
| 19:08.45 | levi | I think that people who want to run a bunch of VMs that need multiple GB each are insane. |
| 19:08.47 | spangborn | *shrug* |
| 19:08.56 | spangborn | That's what servers are for |
| 19:08.58 | spangborn | Heavy lifting |
| 19:09.18 | levi | I also think that the default images people run in VMs for most OSes are insane. |
| 19:09.32 | spangborn | Running massive VMs on a laptop is a great way to murder your battery life |
| 19:10.09 | levi | Don't get me wrong; I love VMs. |
| 19:10.12 | spangborn | This is why I love that my work is all done on a Citrix VM and my work laptop is basically a thin client |
| 19:10.30 | spangborn | I've only installed two things on my work laptop. Spotify and Citrix Receiver |
| 19:10.33 | programmerq | for some things, you just need local VMs |
| 19:10.48 | levi | Sure, and I use local VMs. |
| 19:10.56 | programmerq | demoing a 6-node cluster to a customer and you don't want to rely on shitty wireless onsite |
| 19:11.11 | programmerq | having more ram isn't going to be bad in that situation |
| 19:11.13 | jima | programmerq: i've seen a lot of vendors do that |
| 19:11.14 | levi | A 6-node cluster of... what? |
| 19:11.22 | jima | whatever you're selling |
| 19:11.23 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 19:11.29 | programmerq | yeah, whatever you're selling |
| 19:11.32 | spangborn | Sounds like a good use for a cellular hotspot. |
| 19:11.42 | jima | i'll attest, that's a real-world scenario i've observed. |
| 19:11.54 | programmerq | cellular hotspot, in my opinion, falls very much under "shitty wireless onsite" |
| 19:11.59 | programmerq | many buildings block cell signals |
| 19:12.07 | programmerq | you can't rely on having connectivity in those situations |
| 19:12.12 | jima | programmerq: i'd agree with your opinion. |
| 19:12.15 | programmerq | but you still have to sell |
| 19:13.39 | levi | If you need to do that sort of thing a lot, I'd argue for a dedicated "pseudo-server" demo box with a bunch of RAM stuffed in it that runs your VMs. |
| 19:14.27 | levi | Or some cut-down VM images that don't take more than 1GB each. |
| 19:14.41 | jima | one more piece to lug with you on airplanes... |
| 19:15.25 | programmerq | or you could just get a laptop that has enough ram |
| 19:16.13 | levi | Don't talk to me about "one more thing to lug". |
| 19:16.27 | jima | levi: you're the one suggesting lugging more! |
| 19:16.55 | levi | Stuff I work on is a physical device and requires a bunch of support gear to even power up. |
| 19:17.13 | levi | (automotive amplifiers, most recently) |
| 19:17.30 | jima | so would your hypothetical vm box! |
| 19:17.43 | jima | "oops, it didn't power up...anyone have a monitor and keyboard?" |
| 19:17.50 | levi | No, small form factor PCs are small and light and use standard power plugs. |
| 19:17.50 | jima | s/power/come/ |
| 19:18.32 | jima | stuffing more ram/disk into a laptop seems less complicated, imo. |
| 19:20.24 | levi | Well, in some situations I'd prefer using cut-down VM images that work on a laptop without ridiculous amounts of memory and other times I'd prefer a dedicated machine that's always configured for the demo. |
| 19:21.04 | levi | Neither is a particularly "realistic" demo for something designed to run on a cluster of high-powered servers. |
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| 20:42.33 | unum | so when I switch desktops gnome tends to switch focus to my second monitor. so rather than pressing ctrl+a p in my screen session, I did it in thunderbird |
| 20:42.52 | unum | so to prevent the printer from printing all the email in my in box I turned it it off |
| 20:43.02 | unum | and now it displays an error message.... |
| 20:43.08 | unum | *sigh* |
| 20:43.09 | jfindlay | xfce ftw |
| 20:44.31 | unum | paperless ftw |
| 20:47.57 | eightyeight | awesomewm ftw |
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| 20:48.53 | TodPunk | windows ftw |
| 20:49.23 | eightyeight | backs away from TodPunk |
| 20:49.34 | TodPunk | yeah, that's what I thought |
| 20:55.25 | levi | I would be okay with running Windows if it was a recent version of Windows that our IT department hadn't mangled. |
| 20:57.22 | levi | Most of the previously really frustrating stuff is better now and I'm pretty sure I could set up something I'd be able to get comfortable with. |
| 20:58.38 | eightyeight | at least windows has an <Esc> key |
| 20:58.42 | eightyeight | ducks |
| 20:59.28 | spangborn | They all have them, but one version has a hardware one! |
| 21:00.16 | levi | I wonder if they'll be making versions of their external keyboards with the touch bar thingy. |
| 21:01.03 | spangborn | I'd actually enjoy that |
| 21:01.11 | spangborn | Bluetooth over TouchID would be interesting |
| 21:01.16 | spangborn | Er, TouchID over BT |
| 21:01.35 | spangborn | It's been a long day :( |
| 21:02.14 | levi | I like the idea of having a multitouch reconfigurable toolbar on the keyboard. |
| 21:04.20 | spangborn | It's kinda like that LCD keyboard that was astronomically expensive, but actually obtainable |
| 21:04.34 | spangborn | Optimus Maximus |
| 21:04.40 | levi | Yeah, I remember that. |
| 21:04.58 | spangborn | There's a full touch version evidently now |
| 21:05.06 | spangborn | http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/tactus/ |
| 21:05.56 | spangborn | LOL @ $1500 for this: http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/ |
| 21:06.13 | levi | I don't think I'd want a full-touch one. |
| 21:06.44 | spangborn | Full touch would be a carpal tunnel nightmare |
| 21:09.44 | aeryndunham | I actually think the new macbooks look really really nice |
| 21:09.58 | spangborn | http://www.downloadmorewam.com/ |
| 21:09.59 | spangborn | lol |
| 21:10.00 | spangborn | wtf is this |
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| 21:12.58 | jfindlay | I got a mechanical keyboard to prevent hand motor degeneracy problems |
| 21:13.20 | jfindlay | and it seems to work. There's no way I'm going to use a touch keyboard all day |
| 21:13.32 | aeryndunham | I love the idea of mechanical keyboards but I live in such a tiny space the noise would drive me insane |
| 21:18.15 | frostyfrog | Machanical keyboards aren't that bad in all honesty. Especially if you get the non-super clicky ones. |
| 21:18.30 | TodPunk | <3 the clicky ones |
| 21:18.38 | frostyfrog | Plus, there's the fact that you can get o-rings to dampen the noise even more. |
| 21:18.40 | TodPunk | I have a cherry sampler set thing |
| 21:18.55 | TodPunk | blue is my favorite |
| 21:19.03 | aeryndunham | My boyfriend has a super clicky one and he was nice enough to NOT bring it to the sip |
| 21:19.06 | aeryndunham | *ship |
| 21:19.24 | TodPunk | red or brown are also nice |
| 21:19.28 | TodPunk | but less clicky |
| 21:20.21 | TodPunk | http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-keycap-cherry-mx-switch-o-ring-pro-sampler-tester-kit.html |
| 21:23.54 | levi | Back when my "fast" computer was a 486/33, I had a cool mechanical keyboard with a built-in macro-programming feature. |
| 21:42.17 | levi | I loved the feel, but it was pretty loud. I like the relative silence of today's keyboards even if they don't have quite as nice of a feel. |
| 21:43.10 | programmerq | is typing on a unicomp model M |
| 21:43.15 | aeryndunham | The more i work in my internet cafe the more I want all the keyboards to be 100% silent :p |
| 21:46.16 | TodPunk | I like the sound of typing around me |
| 21:46.21 | TodPunk | I also like server fans |
| 21:47.56 | aeryndunham | I have waaaaaay too many people entitled to free internet this cruise; I am going to be so busy in there I'm already having heart failure thinking about it |
| 21:48.01 | aeryndunham | works in 16 mins |
| 22:16.08 | jfindlay | buckling spring ftw |
| 22:16.58 | eightyeight | <3 cherry mx |
| 22:17.44 | jfindlay | well, buckling spring if you want to broadcast confidence and assurance to the nethermost corner of the cube farm |
| 22:18.47 | eightyeight | the cherry mx blues have good tactile feedback, and a good clickety sound to them |
| 22:20.32 | jfindlay | yeah, I got a red cherry keyboard and I don't like that it doesn't have a mid-stroke inflection in the resistance profile upon registration |
| 22:20.40 | jfindlay | but it was also the cheapest one I could find |
| 22:20.50 | jfindlay | still better than any non-mech keyboard |
| 22:21.38 | eightyeight | i find it less-than-pleasant to type on gel-membrane keyboards after spending all day on my mechanical |
| 22:26.09 | jfindlay | yes |
| 22:26.39 | frostyfrog | Brown is my favorite (mechanical keyboard discussion) and I would love to use Brown and Blue for the numpad. |
| 22:29.00 | jfindlay | why do java programs still use xml for config? |
| 22:29.25 | TodPunk | they don't |
| 22:29.33 | jfindlay | TodPunk: jenkins |
| 22:29.50 | TodPunk | some specific applications in java and libs in java do |
| 22:29.52 | TodPunk | yes |
| 22:30.06 | TodPunk | XML was basically the thing for Java |
| 22:30.16 | TodPunk | see also: C# |
| 22:30.19 | jfindlay | so you're saying xml is finally molting away like some kind of evolutionary accident? |
| 22:30.28 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:30.56 | TodPunk | It will continue to be "the thing" for enterprise and for configuring anything with JavaEE (which jenkins is) |
| 22:31.10 | jfindlay | ~lolstats |
| 22:31.12 | infobot | total count of lol on #utah: 2283. Top 3: youtah -- 1122 (49.1%), keldwud -- 115 (5.0%), jfindlay -- 70 (3.1%) |
| 22:31.26 | manithree | SGML would be so much better |
| 22:32.05 | manithree | or not |
| 22:32.07 | frostyfrog | ... I like ini and json configs... |
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| 22:32.33 | TodPunk | config files are a nuanced problem |
| 22:32.45 | eightyeight | is partial to yaml |
| 22:32.50 | frostyfrog | has no experience with SGML but imagines it being similar to XML. Will investigate at a later date. |
| 22:32.50 | jfindlay | I like a very limited syntax for configs. That can make certain things difficult, but I think the tradeoff is worth it |
| 22:32.56 | manithree | java config is nice for a lot of spring stuff - find your config problems at compile time |
| 22:33.11 | TodPunk | frostyfrog: imagine HTML before it did anything |
| 22:33.16 | TodPunk | like bold |
| 22:33.23 | frostyfrog | o.o |
| 22:33.30 | frostyfrog | Eep |
| 22:33.50 | manithree | Mainframe programmers at IBM used it to write docs when I was an intern |
| 22:34.07 | TodPunk | the original web was designed around sgml documents |
| 22:34.15 | jfindlay | my main problems with jenkins XML configs is that random jenkins plugins can arbitrarily change the XML tree, so using an external config system, like saltstack, to manage jenkins configs is going to be very fragile |
| 22:34.36 | manithree | fragility is the problem with jenkins |
| 22:34.45 | jfindlay | so that is more of an issue with jenkins itself than xml, I think |
| 22:35.07 | TodPunk | it doesn't have to be, and is mostly a signature of jenkins plugin system trying to modify the xml tree that way |
| 22:35.26 | TodPunk | you can't just manage it like an xml document, that's for sure |
| 22:35.34 | jfindlay | 0.7 of what we use jenkins for is already implicitly done by salt anyway |
| 22:35.52 | jfindlay | all we use jenkins for is scheduling (easy) and displaying test results (not as easy) |
| 22:36.09 | jfindlay | and jenkins doesn't even display test results that well |
| 22:36.19 | jfindlay | even with an xml of plugins |
| 22:36.35 | jfindlay | (does xml work as a collective noun for jenkins plugins?) |
| 22:37.00 | frostyfrog | xD |
| 22:37.29 | jfindlay | you'll probably get better introspection using a 'big data' toolset, like elkstack or something |
| 22:38.10 | manithree | hopes concourse lives up to the hype and solves his jenkins pain points |
| 22:38.19 | jfindlay | so, for example, you could track an intermittently failing test across all platforms and test runs |
| 22:38.39 | jfindlay | see if you can find fractals in the madness |
| 22:38.50 | jfindlay | s/madness/chaos/ |
| 22:38.55 | TodPunk | jfindlay: it helps somewhat to think of jenkins' xml configs as a referential database than a document set |
| 22:39.03 | TodPunk | because that's what it's trying (poorly) to be |
| 22:39.08 | jfindlay | hm |