| 00:04.32 | shalkie | WinAMP? |
| 00:06.16 | shalkie | Actually I kinda miss xmms |
| 00:14.40 | TodPunk | Winamp is so good |
| 00:22.45 | *** part/#utah Sherman_ (~sherman@65-130-200-93.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:41.29 | klys | in search of a faster x86 chip: findings: the v586 runs at ~4.35 MHz on a $320 fpga dev board. |
| 01:36.23 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@fedora/jima) |
| 03:43.57 | eightyeight | heh |
| 03:44.14 | eightyeight | ? |
| 03:44.16 | eightyeight | hah |
| 03:44.18 | eightyeight | :) |
| 03:44.35 | spangborn | http://twitter.com/branfire/status/763867302945251329/photo/1 |
| 03:47.08 | eightyeight | wasn't Liang Chow her former coach? |
| 04:29.11 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 04:31.26 | klys | hailed here earlier. |
| 04:42.41 | spangborn | I played with a Vive last weekend and it's trippy |
| 04:42.49 | spangborn | After playing for a while, reality felt very fake |
| 04:52.07 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@fedora/jima) |
| 05:34.10 | eightyeight | heh |
| 05:34.12 | eightyeight | ? |
| 05:34.14 | eightyeight | hah |
| 05:34.16 | eightyeight | :) |
| 05:36.22 | jfindlay | eightyeight: you forgot lol |
| 05:36.31 | eightyeight | no. i don't. |
| 05:36.43 | jfindlay | you don't forgot lol |
| 05:36.59 | eightyeight | i don't lol |
| 11:41.31 | *** join/#utah manithree (~blr@li4-76.members.linode.com) |
| 13:21.20 | *** join/#utah programmerq (~jefferya@unaffiliated/programmerq) |
| 14:00.30 | *** join/#utah programmerq (~jefferya@unaffiliated/programmerq) |
| 14:10.11 | TodPunk | "A prince does NOT 'woo. hoo.'" |
| 15:07.46 | manithree | Dang, my solar panels are raicist: http://www.local10.com/news/elections/why-is-al-sharpton-opposed-to-amendment-4 |
| 15:07.54 | manithree | is a bad, bad, person |
| 15:09.04 | TodPunk | Al Sharpton: the most prominent racist we have. That's saying something, given our presidential candidates. |
| 15:11.38 | eightyeight | heh |
| 15:12.19 | TodPunk | I see this /. story about Facebook circumventing adblock plus |
| 15:12.51 | TodPunk | meanwhile I'm on Facebook seeing no ads because uBlock Origins and FuckFuckAdblock doesn't care about their workaround somehow |
| 15:13.13 | eightyeight | I don't see Facebook ads either. :) |
| 15:13.23 | eightyeight | Then again, I'm not on Facebook |
| 15:13.37 | TodPunk | We all isolate ourselves in different ways |
| 15:13.44 | eightyeight | Made some stylistic changes to my passphrase/password generator, and it's now mobile friendly |
| 15:13.52 | eightyeight | https://ae7.st/g/ |
| 15:14.03 | eightyeight | Still playing with max-width though. Not sure where I want to set it. |
| 15:38.35 | spangborn | yawns |
| 15:39.09 | TodPunk | spangborn: still having inception-style doubts about reality? |
| 15:39.15 | TodPunk | You're waiting for a train... |
| 15:39.19 | spangborn | Haha. |
| 15:39.23 | jlp_znc | Starker! This is KAOS! Ve don't "lol" here! |
| 15:39.26 | spangborn | It wears off after a bit, but it's so weird. |
| 15:39.35 | spangborn | Everything looks so flat. |
| 15:40.16 | spangborn | Which is exactly the opposite of what I'd expect. I'd expect the VR to look flat. |
| 16:25.59 | *** join/#utah romanovic (~romanovic@puritynine.com) |
| 16:30.50 | fungus | I'm looking for a recommendation for an ad blocker, that will block ads only on specific sites. |
| 16:31.16 | eightyeight | modifying /etc/hosts? |
| 16:31.40 | TodPunk | ublock origins |
| 16:31.47 | fungus | Not quite. I want to block all ads displayed on sites with particularly egregious ads. |
| 16:31.52 | TodPunk | can make it active only on certain sites |
| 16:32.00 | fungus | TodPunk, nice. |
| 16:32.15 | TodPunk | I specifically use this to enable ads only on certain sites |
| 16:32.48 | fungus | I want to be kind to most revenue models, and default to displaying ads. But blacklist really bad ones. |
| 16:33.02 | TodPunk | I have seen people do that |
| 16:33.05 | fungus | I'll try ublock origins |
| 17:04.55 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (~jonathan@45.56.57.85) |
| 18:27.48 | *** join/#utah youtah (~Jeff@63.228.192.221) |
| 18:42.20 | youtah | ~nachos |
| 18:42.20 | infobot | schweet. |
| 18:43.19 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 18:46.27 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@fedora/jima) |
| 18:46.44 | jfindlay | ~nacho |
| 18:46.44 | infobot | Tonight I wrestle the seven strongest men in town, maybe the world. |
| 19:01.25 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:01.27 | eightyeight | hah |
| 19:01.30 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:01.33 | eightyeight | ? |
| 19:02.34 | jfindlay | eightyeight is now more machine than man |
| 19:02.45 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:02.46 | eightyeight | hah |
| 19:02.48 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:02.50 | eightyeight | ? |
| 19:03.24 | jfindlay | lol |
| 19:29.14 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 19:35.00 | jlp_znc | heh |
| 19:44.31 | SunSparc | hah |
| 19:44.43 | SunSparc | ~hahstats |
| 19:44.43 | infobot | total count of hah on #utah: 177. Top 3: goozbach -- 80 (45.2%), eightyeight -- 35 (19.8%), keldwud -- 13 (7.3%) |
| 19:45.58 | goozbach | hah |
| 19:48.23 | jima | heh |
| 19:50.54 | spangborn | Heh |
| 20:00.16 | *** join/#utah Nemus (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 20:05.29 | eightyeight | hah |
| 20:05.34 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:05.45 | eightyeight | ? |
| 20:05.48 | eightyeight | :) |
| 20:09.18 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 20:21.56 | youtah | Anyone have any Web centered software qa positions open? I have a friend who is looking at jumping industries. He's in retail and has been mananging the websites for a large (local) retailer |
| 20:28.56 | youtah | FYI: Star Party Tonight at the Harmons Grocery Store (Draper) parking lot, put on by the Salt Lake Astronomical Society. |
| 20:33.15 | jfindlay | youtah: you could tell him to inquire at saltstack. We could use more good QA on our enterprise web client |
| 20:33.23 | jfindlay | not promising anything though |
| 20:33.32 | youtah | yup |
| 20:33.35 | jfindlay | youtah: did you see the meteorites? |
| 20:33.36 | youtah | understood |
| 20:34.00 | youtah | he eventually wants to get into Web Dev |
| 20:34.10 | youtah | and figured this would be a good step into the door and into the industry |
| 20:34.10 | jfindlay | what that means is, I'm not sure we have any official positions open, this is just my opinion. Management may have another |
| 20:34.20 | youtah | gotchya |
| 20:35.05 | jfindlay | but it has almost always been my understanding that you do not hire people for positions, but hire people and put them in a position to be great |
| 20:35.35 | youtah | I like it |
| 20:57.25 | *** join/#utah dkelson (~dkelson@40.141.117.2) |
| 21:19.20 | youtah | ~brave-- |
| 21:19.31 | youtah | oh, btw.... tomorrow is national skinny dipping day |
| 21:28.03 | jlp_znc | makes note to avoid youtah tomorrow |
| 21:29.06 | youtah | lol |
| 21:33.15 | unum | youtah they should probably specify which draper harmons |
| 21:33.24 | unum | I'm assuming bangter |
| 21:33.33 | unum | since most people think the one on 114 is in Sandy |
| 21:35.09 | youtah | yeah |
| 21:35.21 | youtah | it specifies Bangerter in the FB post |
| 21:38.10 | unum | ah |
| 21:39.01 | unum | if you happen to live at either location make sure you register to vote, and vote for me :) |
| 21:39.29 | klys | what are you running for |
| 21:40.00 | youtah | nachos |
| 21:40.03 | youtah | vote for nachos |
| 21:40.05 | unum | mmmm nachos |
| 21:40.07 | unum | and state rep |
| 21:40.08 | klys | por que |
| 21:40.12 | youtah | eh? |
| 21:40.14 | youtah | really unum? |
| 21:40.22 | unum | ya I ran two years ago as well |
| 21:40.23 | youtah | Do you have a campaign site and such? |
| 21:40.29 | unum | kylewaters51.org |
| 21:40.35 | unum | someone's working on revamp for me |
| 21:40.38 | unum | supposedly anyways |
| 21:40.41 | youtah | 51 51 |
| 21:40.49 | youtah | trying to place it |
| 21:40.55 | unum | or if you prefer vote.kylewaters51.org |
| 21:40.56 | unum | draper |
| 21:41.01 | unum | most of draper |
| 21:41.08 | klys | i vote for fiscal conservative logic and counterglobalist strategies |
| 21:41.08 | unum | I meant vote.kylewaters51.democrat |
| 21:41.28 | unum | fiscal conservative logic? |
| 21:41.34 | klys | yeah |
| 21:41.42 | youtah | I used to be in 49 |
| 21:41.51 | youtah | I helped Karen Morgan run and get elected for Rep and Senate |
| 21:41.51 | unum | poulsen? |
| 21:42.00 | unum | no seegmiller |
| 21:42.05 | unum | soon to be robinson |
| 21:42.10 | youtah | I am now in 6 |
| 21:42.15 | unum | nope I was right the first time |
| 21:42.18 | youtah | I regret electing seegmiller |
| 21:42.29 | unum | he didn't last long |
| 21:42.51 | unum | you moved north |
| 21:43.01 | unum | brigham city? |
| 21:43.15 | youtah | nope |
| 21:43.19 | youtah | 6 is Northern Lehi |
| 21:43.23 | youtah | Rep 6 |
| 21:43.26 | youtah | Senate 11 |
| 21:43.33 | unum | weird |
| 21:43.36 | youtah | yeah |
| 21:43.37 | youtah | very |
| 21:43.44 | unum | I think we have the same senator |
| 21:43.45 | youtah | http://le.utah.gov/GIS/findDistrict.jsp |
| 21:43.56 | youtah | Stephenson? |
| 21:44.14 | youtah | huh |
| 21:44.15 | youtah | you're right |
| 21:44.28 | youtah | btw I have SOOOOO many photos of Hughes |
| 21:44.28 | unum | I always thought 32 was off, but 6 is waaaaaay off |
| 21:44.38 | unum | were you stalking him? |
| 21:44.45 | youtah | naw |
| 21:44.55 | unum | I thought he was the one who hired private investigators of other people.... |
| 21:45.03 | youtah | hire photography |
| 21:45.10 | youtah | hired |
| 21:45.14 | youtah | events and such |
| 21:45.49 | unum | I can't find any definition for fiscal conservative logic |
| 21:46.14 | klys | that's because you're a democrat |
| 21:46.25 | unum | or because google is ran by democrats |
| 21:46.29 | unum | :p |
| 21:46.34 | youtah | oh snap |
| 21:46.51 | klys | nope. you simply refuse to understand debt. |
| 21:47.07 | unum | I'm running for state rep, I'd have to balance the budget |
| 21:47.15 | youtah | *use debt I think is what you mean |
| 21:47.26 | unum | if that's your only issue. It's kind of moot on a state level |
| 21:48.01 | klys | issue? accounting principles are generally accepted. |
| 21:48.18 | unum | now I'm really confused |
| 21:48.27 | unum | are saying the state doesn't use account principles? |
| 21:48.32 | unum | accounting |
| 21:48.46 | klys | not if the deficit is a problem |
| 21:48.57 | unum | there is no state deficit |
| 21:49.01 | klys | defecit |
| 21:49.09 | klys | ok |
| 21:49.10 | youtah | you know what was interesting? |
| 21:49.25 | unum | it's constitutionally forbidden |
| 21:49.26 | youtah | I went to the dem caucaus this year. Know what I heard? |
| 21:49.46 | youtah | I heard everyone talking about wanting fiscal responsibility |
| 21:49.52 | unum | so if the defecit is your only issue, it doesn't apply to state candidates |
| 21:50.09 | youtah | more or less, Dems and GOPers really have a lot in common |
| 21:50.14 | klys | that dems don't think the defecit is bad? |
| 21:50.29 | youtah | it was like they were parroting the exact same things |
| 21:50.30 | unum | youtah: it's true we just refuse to actually listen to what the other side is saying |
| 21:50.40 | youtah | yet "the other guys" are wrong |
| 21:50.45 | unum | rather we point to the extreme of both sides and declare that as their stance |
| 21:50.50 | youtah | exactly unum |
| 21:51.31 | unum | there's a great post on politicalcompass where the british authors are comparing obama and romney and they make the claim that the US is a one party system pretending to be a two party system |
| 21:51.41 | unum | this year I think there's more of difference :) |
| 21:51.46 | youtah | lol |
| 21:52.01 | TodPunk | assuming it's not an elaborate ploy |
| 21:52.05 | manithree | unum: There's a difference between Hillary and a Hillary donor? |
| 21:52.06 | klys | well there are a few more important principles. keeping your local city out of ICLEI is important |
| 21:52.18 | unum | manithree: turns out, yes |
| 21:52.26 | manithree | Not much. |
| 21:52.34 | youtah | you have their latitude |
| 21:52.39 | youtah | her latitude |
| 21:52.42 | youtah | longitude |
| 21:52.46 | youtah | elevation |
| 21:52.47 | youtah | age |
| 21:52.53 | klys | and multiparty election reform is important. |
| 21:52.56 | youtah | number of kittens they've eaten |
| 21:53.09 | manithree | youtah: now you're making me hungry |
| 21:53.12 | youtah | jumps behind the couch before someone throws something |
| 21:53.29 | youtah | I love cats |
| 21:53.37 | youtah | ...with a good sesame seed sauce! |
| 21:53.46 | manithree | I love cats |
| 21:53.55 | manithree | I just can't finish a whole one in one meal |
| 21:53.59 | unum | klys: are you more a constitutionalist or libertarian |
| 21:54.05 | youtah | lol manithree |
| 21:54.06 | unum | I'm going to guess constitutionalist |
| 21:54.10 | klys | though if I see you suuporting a medicaid expansion then you are not fiscally accountable |
| 21:54.23 | klys | I'm more republican |
| 21:54.23 | youtah | that's a huge misnomer |
| 21:54.50 | unum | refusing medicaid money does nothing to help the federal budget |
| 21:54.59 | klys | :) |
| 21:55.03 | unum | if you want to talk accounting principle we can talk accounting principles :) |
| 21:55.18 | unum | there's the general fund and then their's mandatory spending |
| 21:55.19 | youtah | puts on his accounting helmet and prepares for battle |
| 21:55.38 | unum | mandatory spending has to be spent towards the specific program that the funds were collected for |
| 21:55.47 | klys | you can say that about inducing funding, just not about loing the same funding |
| 21:55.54 | unum | though those funds can be lent to other programs |
| 21:55.55 | TodPunk | "I have opinions, they are infallible, and the judgements they infer upon you are based on your agreement or generalizing your stupidity" |
| 21:56.13 | unum | but not transferred |
| 21:56.26 | klys | *losing funding |
| 21:57.39 | klys | federal funding is mostly presidential |
| 21:57.42 | youtah | lol, that's fantastic TodPunk |
| 21:58.00 | unum | klys: I'd like to see your source for that |
| 21:58.04 | manithree | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azkFz1ZbXyU |
| 21:58.18 | klys | personal honesty does apply, however |
| 21:58.56 | klys | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cVK2jnDpiLM/UhJEgW46XaI/AAAAAAAAW6o/ZlIUSbSvV9U/s1600/Wallace+Spending+as%25+of+GDP.png |
| 21:59.18 | unum | http://budget.house.gov/budgetprocess/ |
| 21:59.20 | TodPunk | I'm convinced klys is just a markov bot trained on political parrot tweets. I can never figure out how the words in each statement fit together. |
| 21:59.31 | youtah | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktNV97ga9Y << TodPunk, probably (i didn't watch the full thing) |
| 21:59.41 | klys | see the spike for democratic presidents and dip for republican administrations |
| 21:59.59 | unum | you mean like how it shot up in 82? |
| 21:59.59 | klys | sourced. |
| 22:00.09 | unum | and dropped in 96? |
| 22:00.20 | unum | 82 was reagan and 96 was clinton |
| 22:00.21 | youtah | 82 was a great year btw.... I am just going to throw that out there |
| 22:00.24 | youtah | so was 96 |
| 22:00.30 | youtah | lots of good music in 96 |
| 22:00.40 | TodPunk | You know what president did more in my 34 years of life to reduce the deficit than any other president? Clinton. |
| 22:00.47 | unum | and also shot up in 2008...... |
| 22:00.47 | klys | i'm not an 82 politician |
| 22:00.56 | unum | not that spending went up, your graph is flawed |
| 22:01.06 | unum | it spending vs gdp, so it's mostly about gdp |
| 22:01.12 | TodPunk | youtah: this campfire is terrible |
| 22:01.19 | youtah | lol |
| 22:01.41 | youtah | so cynical |
| 22:01.52 | klys | the budget is therefore more presidential |
| 22:01.54 | TodPunk | I'm also trying to decide if they're 14 or 16. The drama is slightly different, but the relevancy is still very low |
| 22:02.10 | unum | but anyways according to your graph usually the opposite happens, spending vs gdp goes up under republican administration and down during democrat ones |
| 22:02.14 | youtah | lol, so it sounds like you made it further into the video than I did |
| 22:02.47 | TodPunk | youtah: hilariously, I don't have speakers |
| 22:02.55 | unum | you see it drop through the entire clinton administration |
| 22:03.00 | TodPunk | I suppose I could use headphones |
| 22:03.22 | unum | and bottoming out right when bush took over |
| 22:03.34 | unum | klys: your chart proves the opposite of what you said |
| 22:03.51 | TodPunk | unum: shhhh, you'll scare it away |
| 22:03.53 | klys | until you get to obama |
| 22:04.17 | youtah | klys, http://www.factcheck.org/2016/04/obamas-numbers-april-2016-update/ |
| 22:04.24 | youtah | it's actually really really good |
| 22:04.42 | unum | klys: it goes up the first year of his presidency and then down |
| 22:04.47 | unum | the rest |
| 22:04.53 | klys | next up, the debt chart itself |
| 22:04.54 | TodPunk | I'm reminded that I registered Dem to throw off statistics. Maybe that invalidates my opinion. |
| 22:04.54 | unum | oops not 2013 |
| 22:05.16 | youtah | lol TodPunk |
| 22:05.20 | manithree | youtah: The economy numbers in your link are really pretty bad. |
| 22:05.38 | manithree | as in, misleading |
| 22:05.47 | TodPunk | manithree: they're oversimplified |
| 22:05.55 | youtah | you need to read the in depth paragraphs below the pretty graphs |
| 22:05.58 | unum | I'm guessing some how the debt chart won't cover the same time line |
| 22:06.07 | TodPunk | not good or bad, and only misleading to people who have no understanding of statistics (just about everyone) |
| 22:06.12 | unum | maybe just the last 8 years |
| 22:06.21 | youtah | Scroll down to the "Debt and Deficits" |
| 22:06.35 | TodPunk | youtah: nothing beyond the "fold" exists, you know this |
| 22:06.36 | manithree | Well, saying that the "Unemployment" rate is 5% means the economy is good, is misleading |
| 22:06.49 | youtah | Uhg... shhh TodPunk |
| 22:07.01 | TodPunk | manithree: is it... is it bad? |
| 22:07.22 | manithree | It means lots of people have given up looking for jobs. Is that good or bad? |
| 22:07.35 | TodPunk | it might |
| 22:07.40 | TodPunk | and it might be either |
| 22:07.41 | manithree | It does: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 |
| 22:07.54 | TodPunk | could also mean we found marijuana and free love again |
| 22:08.04 | klys | http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2011/Feb/gross-debt.png |
| 22:08.13 | manithree | Ok, fair enough, to the Marxist ideal of leisure, it is good. |
| 22:08.21 | youtah | TodPunk, I am starting the Green Bull Moose Party |
| 22:08.42 | TodPunk | youtah: I'm starting the Roy Gee Biv Party |
| 22:09.08 | youtah | yeah but.... |
| 22:09.11 | youtah | I hate rainbows |
| 22:09.20 | youtah | because that means its raining |
| 22:09.35 | TodPunk | We're missing most of the spectrum, it's fine |
| 22:09.50 | TodPunk | Turns out that's acid rain, we're not fine |
| 22:11.13 | youtah | isnt it also the name for an alcoholic drink? |
| 22:11.30 | TodPunk | isn't everything? |
| 22:11.36 | youtah | fair enough |
| 22:12.01 | TodPunk | 'This is what I call the "murky tuesday skydive"' |
| 22:12.37 | manithree | And 9.7 million jobs sounds like a lot, but 1.4% growth is really pretty anemic |
| 22:13.29 | unum | klys: what's the point of your graph? |
| 22:13.35 | youtah | 1.4%>0 |
| 22:13.38 | unum | to show that it's been increasing for sometime? |
| 22:14.02 | klys | unum, no I don't express points, just principles |
| 22:14.08 | manithree | youtah: 1.4% < population growth, so it's overall shrinkage |
| 22:14.12 | youtah | TodPunk, did you know that Chuck Norris actually divided by Zero one time? |
| 22:14.24 | TodPunk | good lord you people and your political drivel are so boring: https://www.reddit.com/r/catsmurderingtoddlers/ |
| 22:14.42 | unum | klys: well i can grab random graph too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg |
| 22:14.56 | youtah | I have an idea TodPunk |
| 22:14.57 | unum | it's really easy |
| 22:15.01 | youtah | lets take a vote |
| 22:15.03 | unum | the internet is just FULL of them |
| 22:15.06 | youtah | this is the democratic way |
| 22:15.22 | youtah | lets vote on who wins this mighty battle. |
| 22:15.25 | TodPunk | youtah: ok, which cat gifv do you vote for? |
| 22:15.31 | youtah | or that too |
| 22:16.26 | youtah | I think this one wins http://i.imgur.com/224L5Tx.gifv |
| 22:16.38 | unum | I don't understand why their's a belief that Republican cut federal spending. |
| 22:16.54 | manithree | unum: Almost nobody believes that anymore |
| 22:17.16 | manithree | that's why so many Republicans are pissed off |
| 22:17.24 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 22:17.30 | spangborn | ~youtah++ |
| 22:17.38 | youtah | ahhhh thanks spangborn |
| 22:17.42 | youtah | ~brave-- |
| 22:17.49 | unum | manithree: klys seems to be trying to make that argument |
| 22:17.56 | youtah | has a monsterous headache |
| 22:18.04 | unum | but maybe I'm misunderstanding, since as he said he has no point |
| 22:18.48 | manithree | Reagan had a Democratic congress, Cinton mostly had a Republican congress, so trying to relate spending to the President is a little weird |
| 22:19.09 | unum | manithree: true |
| 22:19.13 | klys | reps 2-4 spenders dems 5-2 austere, 33% chance of an austere rep, 72% chance of an austere dem. now find me a dem that cares |
| 22:19.23 | unum | in the early 2000's you had all republicans |
| 22:20.35 | unum | Republican really care about spending when there's a democratic president. When there's a republican president suddenly they don't seem to care any more |
| 22:20.48 | unum | you see the same trend with public lands and state control |
| 22:20.49 | TodPunk | This one has potential: http://i.imgur.com/u0qPkbw.gifv |
| 22:21.02 | manithree | unum: And that's what caused the Tea Party, for better or worse |
| 22:21.17 | youtah | likes CSS |
| 22:21.41 | TodPunk | Nope, this one takes it: http://i.imgur.com/YXBSWEZ.gifv |
| 22:22.12 | youtah | lol |
| 22:22.35 | klys | if it was up to p.ryan's congress, the defecit would decrease, says m.romney (austere). so why is it still going up? |
| 22:22.36 | manithree | unum: Obama, Pelosi, and Reed campaigned against Bush spending in 2008. |
| 22:22.54 | TodPunk | Seriously, twitter bot |
| 22:22.58 | TodPunk | I'm just sayin' |
| 22:23.50 | unum | manithree: ya, you seem everyone switch sides on certian issues, like encryption |
| 22:24.20 | manithree | Just further proof that (at the national level, at least) we have a one party system |
| 22:24.33 | unum | true |
| 22:24.51 | klys | entitlement spending is up, defense spending is down. |
| 22:25.19 | TodPunk | proliferation spending is up, catalytic spending is down |
| 22:25.36 | TodPunk | (I can use words, too) |
| 22:25.52 | TodPunk | gets a thesaurus |
| 22:25.59 | unum | in this case he is actually right |
| 22:26.11 | unum | but entitlement spending is always going to go up |
| 22:26.26 | unum | well until the baby boomers have all retired it will go up |
| 22:26.34 | unum | after that it should start to drop again |
| 22:26.38 | TodPunk | who cares if he is or isn't? Like "the moons out." So what? |
| 22:26.54 | unum | but it's very misleading to blame Obama for the increase in entitlement spending |
| 22:26.55 | TodPunk | It's a useless statement |
| 22:27.01 | unum | defense spending is totatly his fault |
| 22:27.08 | TodPunk | might as well yell at clouds |
| 22:27.14 | unum | he hasn't declare war on ANY random countries |
| 22:27.20 | unum | and until he does that he'll never match bush |
| 22:28.09 | TodPunk | ~brave-- |
| 22:28.24 | unum | are we doing that just to annoy eightyeight |
| 22:28.47 | youtah | more or less to make the world right again |
| 22:28.51 | youtah | ~brave-- |
| 22:28.53 | eightyeight | hah |
| 22:29.00 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:29.01 | youtah | ~karma brave |
| 22:29.01 | infobot | brave has karma of 139 |
| 22:29.02 | eightyeight | ? |
| 22:29.06 | eightyeight | :) |
| 22:29.07 | TodPunk | I think he got the overall blame for ruining the IE karma and then he started botting which made it worse |
| 22:29.10 | youtah | lol |
| 22:29.13 | youtah | :) |
| 22:29.15 | youtah | heh |
| 22:29.16 | youtah | hah |
| 22:29.21 | youtah | I forget the others |
| 22:29.23 | TodPunk | foo |
| 22:29.26 | TodPunk | ~foostats |
| 22:29.29 | klys | how do we decrease entitlement spending; if dems cut defense spending to make it all okay |
| 22:29.35 | youtah | hi |
| 22:29.37 | youtah | ~histats |
| 22:29.37 | infobot | total count of hi on #utah: 185. Top 3: Sargun -- 22 (11.9%), lakshmi -- 9 (4.9%), Sargun_Screen -- 6 (3.2%) |
| 22:29.43 | youtah | hi |
| 22:29.51 | youtah | ~histats |
| 22:29.52 | infobot | total count of hi on #utah: 185. Top 3: Sargun -- 22 (11.9%), lakshmi -- 9 (4.9%), Sargun_Screen -- 6 (3.2%) |
| 22:29.52 | klys | hi |
| 22:29.52 | TodPunk | can't do it so fast, youtah |
| 22:29.59 | youtah | ~twss |
| 22:29.59 | infobot | That's what she said! |
| 22:30.08 | manithree | ha |
| 22:30.20 | TodPunk | My regards to her, then, send her to someone else |
| 22:30.48 | eightyeight | hah |
| 22:30.51 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:30.54 | eightyeight | ? |
| 22:30.57 | eightyeight | :) |
| 22:31.03 | youtah | oh yes ? |
| 22:31.06 | youtah | that was one too |
| 22:31.11 | eightyeight | It's all about messing with the stats |
| 22:31.20 | youtah | wasn't wut one? |
| 22:31.23 | youtah | ~wutstats |
| 22:31.24 | eightyeight | And trolling TodPunk |
| 22:31.31 | youtah | ~lolstats |
| 22:31.31 | infobot | total count of lol on #utah: 2108. Top 3: youtah -- 1007 (47.8%), keldwud -- 115 (5.5%), Q_Continuum -- 63 (3.0%) |
| 22:31.35 | TodPunk | aye |
| 22:31.52 | klys | a republican flag for campus and a democrat flag for ihc just down the road, a tale of two parties |
| 22:32.30 | TodPunk | whispers in a ghostly stereotype voice: "maaaarrrrkovvvvv chaaaaaiiinnnnnn" |
| 22:33.04 | klys | challenged? |
| 22:33.14 | youtah | you mean campuses, those things that are giving millenials more un-repayable debt faster than anything else? |
| 22:33.18 | TodPunk | ~brave-- |
| 22:33.25 | youtah | exactly TodPunk |
| 22:33.31 | youtah | ~brave-- |
| 22:33.33 | youtah | indeed |
| 22:33.38 | TodPunk | true words |
| 22:33.38 | klys | oh, the student loan office |
| 22:33.49 | youtah | Alright folks |
| 22:33.52 | youtah | Iam outta here |
| 22:33.56 | youtah | I have a massive headache |
| 22:33.59 | klys | it's waving a flag too |
| 22:33.59 | TodPunk | keep your cloths on in the pool, youtah |
| 22:34.15 | youtah | never |
| 22:34.31 | TodPunk | provides a certain enforcement agency an anonymous tip |
| 22:34.31 | youtah | later, have a good weekend all |
| 22:34.36 | TodPunk | cya |
| 22:34.37 | youtah | lol |
| 22:34.41 | klys | tah-tah. |
| 22:35.45 | klys | if the fucal cliff wasn't on campus how would anyone learn anatomy |
| 22:35.52 | klys | fiscal* |
| 22:36.16 | manithree | I liked fucal better. More entendres |
| 22:36.48 | klys | what's your idea |
| 22:37.03 | eightyeight | ~:)stats |
| 22:37.03 | infobot | total count of :) on #utah: 1676. Top 3: goozbach -- 275 (16.4%), eightyeight -- 128 (7.6%), fozzmoo -- 105 (6.3%) |
| 22:37.13 | eightyeight | ~?stats |
| 22:37.13 | infobot | total count of ? on #utah: 544. Top 3: goozbach -- 137 (25.2%), youtah -- 43 (7.9%), eightyeight -- 43 (7.9%) |
| 22:37.27 | eightyeight | ~hahstats |
| 22:37.27 | infobot | total count of hah on #utah: 182. Top 3: goozbach -- 81 (44.5%), eightyeight -- 38 (20.9%), keldwud -- 13 (7.1%) |
| 22:37.39 | unum | I think if you factor out the for profit colleges student debt isn't that bad |
| 22:37.41 | eightyeight | ~hehstats |
| 22:37.41 | infobot | total count of heh on #utah: 1585. Top 3: eightyeight -- 483 (30.5%), fozzmoo -- 152 (9.6%), harleypig -- 140 (8.8%) |
| 22:40.12 | manithree | unum: I think if you factor out the Women's Studies majors, it's not too bad. |
| 22:41.25 | unum | manithree: ya that helps too |
| 22:42.01 | unum | actually just saw the story today where Stevens-Henager was trying to dodge the gainful employment rule |
| 22:42.02 | TodPunk | I think it's kind of a stupid point |
| 22:42.04 | unum | and was told nope |
| 22:42.48 | unum | the reason it matters is because there's a new rule that will prevent students from getting loans to attend those colleges |
| 22:42.54 | TodPunk | school debt isn't that high unless you're absolutely stupid about it from the get-go, and even if you take on all that debt it's the slowest-pay-off debt I can find |
| 22:43.32 | TodPunk | with any degree you tend to make more per hour on average than those without, (by something like $1.50/hr) so it is profitable by far over the long term |
| 22:44.01 | unum | if you're attending a for profit school you can have $20k in loans for just tuition in less than a year, and you're not likely to make much any more money than you would with out the degree |
| 22:44.21 | TodPunk | but even if you don't do any of that optimization, I have really hard time caring about the student loan debt of someone that went to Stanford or just financed their full ride anywhere just so they could get a useless degree that adds nothing to their bottom line |
| 22:46.30 | TodPunk | "But they let me take out a loan to go to Neumont and get a game writing degree" .... |
| 22:46.37 | manithree | TodPunk: "I borrowed lots of money to party for 4 years, waahh" |
| 22:46.42 | unum | Why are we using CP437 instead of UTF8?!?!? %&^%$*& |
| 22:47.03 | TodPunk | manithree: those are worse, but there are plenty I know of that didn't party, they're just useless people |
| 22:47.12 | TodPunk | some related to me |
| 22:47.18 | manithree | Or at least, useless degrees |
| 22:47.19 | klys | your input method? |
| 22:47.32 | TodPunk | I don't know of a useless degree, actually |
| 22:47.45 | manithree | financially useless |
| 22:47.49 | TodPunk | just a lot of degrees that are over-saturated and then put on the shelf, never to be used |
| 22:48.19 | TodPunk | like women's studies gets thrown around a lot, but there are a number of credentialed people out there with such degrees that are using it and quite well |
| 22:48.38 | TodPunk | But if everyone suddenly switch it to computer science the result wouldn't be any different |
| 22:48.51 | unum | true |
| 22:48.56 | klys | business? |
| 22:49.02 | TodPunk | "business" |
| 22:49.07 | TodPunk | the most ambiguous of degrees |
| 22:49.20 | unum | my half compsci/half polisci degree has worked out for me, but I wouldn't recommend it |
| 22:49.48 | TodPunk | "Here's how money works and deals are done, also marketings" But all this information is contradictory and doesn't match half the data "yes, this is business" |
| 22:50.14 | TodPunk | I should not here that I'm actually quite anti-"get a degree for your job" camp |
| 22:50.24 | TodPunk | That's not what university is for |
| 22:50.39 | TodPunk | (Regardless of the fact that most people use it for this) |
| 22:50.48 | manithree | The world (market) can only support so many artists, authors, and students of women |
| 22:50.54 | klys | for more info on business, flip to the school of management, e.g. marketing management |
| 22:51.00 | TodPunk | manithree: it can also only support so many physicists |
| 22:51.01 | manithree | TodPunk: I'm all for education for education's sake. As long as you can afford it. |
| 22:51.09 | TodPunk | this hasn't really changed |
| 22:51.28 | TodPunk | The ironic thing is the nonsense about "there are no jobs" |
| 22:51.46 | TodPunk | You know what it costs to get any job you think you can make work? $21 to register a business |
| 22:51.50 | TodPunk | no interview required |
| 22:52.01 | TodPunk | "but I want that security from an employer" go back to 1940 |
| 22:52.06 | manithree | There are no jobs vs. The odds of you getting a job in your degree field are virtually 0% |
| 22:52.22 | TodPunk | a pointless distinction |
| 22:52.53 | TodPunk | We only ever have data on such a field when the number of people holding that job are easily researched or very popular |
| 22:53.14 | TodPunk | how many firefighting equipment vendors do you know? What degree would train you for such? |
| 22:53.40 | manithree | I saw a new mag (60 min, i think) interview 20+ years ago about a family who had paid 100k+ for their daughter's WS degre, and the world wasn't beating down the door to hire her, so they were considering suing the school |
| 22:53.42 | TodPunk | How about the guy that invents new hangers and sells them to dry cleaners? |
| 22:53.45 | klys | fire science and materials engineering |
| 22:54.26 | klys | and then work for a steel casting business |
| 22:54.30 | TodPunk | klys: *bzzzt* wrong, it's a trick question, you just have to know who sells individual pieces of equipment and who wants to buy them and just start cold-calling. It was you all along! |
| 22:54.52 | TodPunk | No one company sells all their own made firefighting equipment |
| 22:55.02 | TodPunk | middle-men strike again |
| 22:55.32 | manithree | Some of us are lucky, but most teenagers have no idea what they are good at, or what their career should be or will be. |
| 22:55.53 | TodPunk | My point is that needing a career is a foolish one-horse show |
| 22:56.04 | TodPunk | there are many more paths that are probably better for many different kinds of people |
| 22:56.16 | TodPunk | and yet all we talk about is how programmers are the awesome pants |
| 22:56.37 | TodPunk | "get your engineering degree and build skyscrapers, I'm sure it will work out for you!" |
| 22:57.10 | manithree | For me, it is. but none of my kids are going to be programmers (or IT), and only one of my kids is likely to go to University-type schooling |
| 22:57.33 | manithree | My son just started MATC Machine Tool Technology (he's a Jr. in High School) |
| 22:57.41 | klys | do you think steel casting is somhow less important than fire science? why would a steel business be smaller than a firefighting division? |
| 22:57.46 | TodPunk | mmmmm, machining |
| 22:57.57 | manithree | I don't think everybody should be a University student. |
| 22:58.04 | TodPunk | agreed |
| 22:58.21 | manithree | I'm glad most people hate programming. More money for me. |
| 22:58.52 | TodPunk | I'm glad most people are bad at any sort of definition of "actual programming." More opportunity for me |
| 22:59.15 | manithree | that too. I'm really glad there are people who like accounting and finance, 'cuz I hate that crap |
| 22:59.18 | TodPunk | Oh, you have no idea what a stack is, but call yourself a computer scientist? That's adorable! |
| 22:59.27 | TodPunk | Let me guess, you work front-end |
| 22:59.40 | unum | of course this brings us to something we were discussing the other day |
| 22:59.50 | TodPunk | (not do disparage people that work in javascript that know how computing resources work, you guys are fine) |
| 23:00.02 | unum | what is a realistic expectation of an advance economy like ours |
| 23:00.02 | manithree | TodPunk: I actually went to ng-conf once. Sounds like you have, too |
| 23:00.17 | unum | should adults be working menial jobs? |
| 23:00.18 | TodPunk | I work in angular currently |
| 23:00.26 | klys | in "zen and the art of programming," the role model asks the student to make "an accounting package." |
| 23:00.45 | TodPunk | unum: in my opinion, maybe at their start? |
| 23:00.48 | unum | or do we call anyone working a menial job lazy, and tell them they should find a new more complicated job if they want to make a livable wage |
| 23:01.06 | klys | bbl. suppertime |
| 23:01.08 | TodPunk | any job a teen should be doing probably shouldn't be done as the primary income of an adult with a family |
| 23:01.12 | unum | so we shouldn't have 40 year olds working a menial job |
| 23:01.15 | manithree | I do some angular, too, but the ng-conf seemed to be dominated by the kind of folks you just described. Writing CRUD apps on contract |
| 23:01.29 | manithree | Is there such a thing as a menial job? |
| 23:01.35 | TodPunk | I don't think menial jobs are a requirement, either |
| 23:01.36 | manithree | Or is all work ennobling? |
| 23:01.59 | TodPunk | I knew a guy in Oregon that took a job as a trash man because it paid well, because nobody else was willing to do it |
| 23:02.08 | TodPunk | there's a lot of those kinds of jobs |
| 23:02.16 | TodPunk | and again, businesses |
| 23:02.20 | manithree | I have twins with special needs. They'll probably never be able to do anything but "menial" jobs |
| 23:02.32 | TodPunk | holy hell it's easy to start a landscaping or pest control business |
| 23:02.38 | unum | manithree: and that's part of the group I'm looking at |
| 23:03.03 | manithree | I hope there will always be jobs available for them. |
| 23:03.04 | TodPunk | manithree: I wouldn't consider them adults with a family, though |
| 23:03.14 | TodPunk | there should definitely be space for them |
| 23:03.18 | TodPunk | well, I take that back |
| 23:03.24 | TodPunk | there probably won't be a lot of space soon |
| 23:03.30 | unum | it's easy for me to say start a business(I come from an uppper middle class family of small business owners, and I don't have too many disabilities :)) |
| 23:03.31 | TodPunk | for anyone |
| 23:03.38 | manithree | I doubt they'll ever be considered adults (legally), or have families of their own |
| 23:04.05 | manithree | Mike Row might argue that menial jobs are great |
| 23:04.15 | manithree | *Rowe |
| 23:04.16 | unum | ya |
| 23:04.23 | unum | that's the argument I'm trying to make |
| 23:04.26 | unum | the one he makes |
| 23:04.32 | TodPunk | unum: anyone with literacy (literacy rates are fantastic) and a little time to go to any of the myriad public resources designed to teach you exactly what you need to do to run a business, well, they can be expected to do so |
| 23:04.36 | unum | of course I'm never sure what he's advocating for |
| 23:04.37 | manithree | I find the term "menial jobs" somewhat offensive |
| 23:04.50 | TodPunk | it's not |
| 23:04.55 | TodPunk | that's just social perception |
| 23:05.11 | TodPunk | if you want to change the term, you're just moving what term we're going to find equally offensive in 5 years |
| 23:05.36 | manithree | I don't want to change the term. Their just jobs |
| 23:05.40 | manithree | *they're |
| 23:05.48 | TodPunk | They're a classification |
| 23:05.50 | TodPunk | and rightfully so |
| 23:06.05 | TodPunk | if they need no qualifications, they're worth distinction |
| 23:06.15 | TodPunk | "tech jobs" is a little less useful, for instance |
| 23:06.31 | TodPunk | Are you an electrical engineer, or a social media guru? |
| 23:06.45 | TodPunk | perhaps a customer experience technician? |
| 23:06.50 | unum | I guess I better head home |
| 23:06.52 | TodPunk | loses a lot of meaning |
| 23:06.52 | unum | by everyone |
| 23:06.57 | TodPunk | hf unum |
| 23:08.28 | manithree | menial is synonymous with inferior and degrading. They're just entry-level jobs |
| 23:09.48 | TodPunk | no, some of them are legit permanent jobs |
| 23:10.15 | TodPunk | lot of waste management jobs for another use of the example |
| 23:10.24 | TodPunk | entry-level and "teen jobs" I would differentiate somehow |
| 23:10.37 | TodPunk | entry-level to me belies a path from there to other things |
| 23:10.53 | TodPunk | cashier at burger kind really shouldn't be considered that for most people |
| 23:12.54 | manithree | I don't think a job is degrading, even if it's unskilled. I don't like the anti-work ethic, and calling a job degrading rubs me the wrong way |
| 23:14.23 | TodPunk | I've never used the word degrading |
| 23:14.26 | TodPunk | but I will now |
| 23:14.39 | manithree | menial has that implication |
| 23:14.40 | TodPunk | a job is degrading if it's below the challenge you should be bringing to yourself |
| 23:14.46 | TodPunk | I disagree |
| 23:14.54 | TodPunk | because I don't give a damn about sensational nonsense |
| 23:14.56 | manithree | The dictionary agrees with me |
| 23:15.11 | manithree | And I see it used that way a lot |
| 23:15.26 | TodPunk | um, "(of work) not requiring much skill and lacking prestige." |
| 23:15.44 | manithree | synonyms:unskilled, lowly, humble, low-status, inferior, degrading; |
| 23:16.14 | TodPunk | in some aspects |
| 23:16.38 | TodPunk | my 40 year old uncle working at burger king is working and inferior and degrading position |
| 23:16.45 | manithree | I have no problem with "unskilled" |
| 23:19.07 | klys | hi |
| 23:21.39 | jfindlay | hah |
| 23:22.07 | TodPunk | ~brave-- |
