| 00:46.03 | spangborn | http://imgur.com/OgQkFEd |
| 01:10.10 | TodPunk | ezakimak: I use nano for all my sysadmin needs |
| 01:10.20 | TodPunk | 100% serious |
| 01:10.36 | spangborn | Ditto. |
| 01:11.42 | TodPunk | I typically have to share servers with others, and even if that weren't the case, unless you can put your own vimrc on every server and not clobber others' vim is pretty useless most of the time, especially when most of what you do is edit configs or change a couple lines of python |
| 01:11.57 | TodPunk | (for the older fogies, s/pythonperl/) |
| 01:12.11 | TodPunk | python/perl |
| 01:18.25 | joshh | the stock vimrc that comes with distros is decent enough to get by, you just need to copy it to your homedir from /usr/share or whatever |
| 01:18.53 | joshh | also, don't you deploy your dotfiles to all your servers at work? |
| 01:19.03 | TodPunk | sure, but not really "more productive" than a quick edit with nano |
| 01:19.40 | TodPunk | I'm not in IT anymore, but even then I never managed users across all those, along with appropriate sudoer nonsense (and don't you talk to me about an NIS domain) |
| 01:20.04 | TodPunk | The two or three people that had access all just went to root from a core user at best |
| 01:20.33 | joshh | a lot of places have something like a dotfiles repo where people can put their stuff, with some cronjob on servers to get it and put files into homedirs |
| 01:21.06 | TodPunk | Could do, but the largest deployment I've worked with was about 100 servers, and not all those machines had internet (or were even on) at all times |
| 01:21.37 | TodPunk | All just a lot of management overhead so I can have Insert mode separation and maybe some syntax highlighting |
| 01:21.58 | joshh | not only that, but also a bashrc with the ps1 you want, aliases, etc |
| 01:21.59 | TodPunk | I don't do serious coding on a commandline anyway, not since the 90s |
| 01:22.25 | joshh | but ya if you don't do much ssh'ing, who cares |
| 01:22.45 | TodPunk | tons of sshing, but only to edit a config file, restart a service, that sort of stuff |
| 01:23.01 | TodPunk | if it was a large enough deployment nowadays I'd probably do that with salt or ansible |
| 01:23.08 | joshh | ya |
| 01:24.49 | joshh | if you aren't config managing your servers much anyway, you probably have EDITOR set to nano and not even full vim installed |
| 01:25.09 | joshh | at least if you use ubuntu |
| 01:26.03 | joshh | i've started using neovim lately, with a nightly iterm2 build, so i can use truecolor vim colorschemes... because im a sucker for pretty colors but need vim |
| 01:26.27 | TodPunk | I typically do a full vim as part of my builds |
| 01:26.41 | TodPunk | just in case I do need some features |
| 01:26.59 | TodPunk | but it's really quite rare. Nano can do just about anything vim can with the exception of multiple buffers |
| 01:27.33 | joshh | as far as i can tell nano is meant to not to confuse new users wth modes, and slightly easier to figure out how to quit |
| 01:27.34 | TodPunk | This was a really weird state to come to realize, having been a vim man for most of my career |
| 01:27.47 | TodPunk | yeah |
| 01:27.51 | joshh | and pico i have no idea about |
| 01:28.01 | TodPunk | nano started as a pico clone |
| 01:28.22 | TodPunk | pico was what I originally learned on (skipped ed) and switched to vim when I got more into coding |
| 01:28.45 | TodPunk | then I found actual IDEs and debuggers integration without archaic key combo nonsense you had ot set yourself |
| 01:29.01 | TodPunk | vim only recently got some plugin management stuff, which I found odd |
| 01:29.18 | TodPunk | I think I got really spoiled with Visual Studio, to be honest |
| 01:29.33 | joshh | the first editor i ever started on a linux box was joe |
| 01:29.44 | joshh | then i did vimtutor sometime in my first week and used vim ever since |
| 01:29.45 | TodPunk | though I typically think new folks should learn without an IDE until they know what it's doing for them, completely |
| 01:30.36 | joshh | im still not as amazing with vim as people who have really gotten insane with it though |
| 01:30.40 | TodPunk | I wonder if vim adventure is still around |
| 01:32.02 | TodPunk | yeah, I think that's a different problem, though. I know a dude who is fantastic with vim, and it makes him happy and all, but he literally could not code without vim now, so switching to a new language that it didn't have features for, or working with a different stack that's not integrated the same way leaves him high and dry |
| 01:32.15 | TodPunk | that's fine for him, but I deliberately avoid getting tied to one tool |
| 01:32.20 | joshh | i've never even tried any ide, besides a bit of playing with pycharm, but i just can't get into it at all |
| 01:32.46 | TodPunk | My favorite for an IDE is step-through debugging |
| 01:32.58 | TodPunk | not always available or useful, but it can be quite fantastic |
| 01:33.39 | TodPunk | I prefer to have it do less "project structure management" nonsense, though, which seems to be all the rage =c/ |
| 01:33.54 | TodPunk | joshh: what language(s) do you primarily work in, and for what ends? |
| 01:34.07 | joshh | right now mostly go, and python secondary |
| 01:34.23 | TodPunk | still at streetmaps or whatnot? |
| 01:34.30 | joshh | go for the services my team owns currently, although we have some python ones too |
| 01:34.34 | joshh | and python for all the basic infra/systems code |
| 01:34.47 | joshh | no i work at uber |
| 01:35.01 | TodPunk | Oh, odd, I got a recruiter email for them a bit ago |
| 01:35.09 | joshh | ya i remember you talking about that |
| 01:35.16 | joshh | seemed like a weird proposition though |
| 01:35.24 | TodPunk | didn't know we had a neighbor there |
| 01:35.31 | joshh | neighbor? |
| 01:35.32 | TodPunk | what? move to SF? |
| 01:35.34 | TodPunk | you |
| 01:35.39 | joshh | i do live in SF |
| 01:35.40 | TodPunk | neighbor as in "channel resident" |
| 01:35.42 | joshh | oh ya |
| 01:35.46 | joshh | worked here since late 2014 |
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| 01:36.10 | TodPunk | but yeah, it's not odd to have a recruiter try to get me to be interested in moving to SF, happens at least once a week |
| 01:36.20 | joshh | was it a 3rd party recruiter? |
| 01:36.23 | TodPunk | no |
| 01:36.28 | joshh | what was the name? |
| 01:36.31 | joshh | pm |
| 01:36.53 | TodPunk | searches |
| 01:37.04 | joshh | most of the bay area companies have been reaching out to people in other areas for a while, since the local market is rough for them |
| 01:37.34 | joshh | since everyone has a job plus a list of places to get referred to by friends if they get unhappy |
| 01:37.51 | TodPunk | there you go |
| 01:39.07 | TodPunk | I was fine with the email, just not interested in the position |
| 01:39.17 | joshh | ya |
| 01:39.54 | TodPunk | The two google recruiters I have are a little more personable about it, though I guess one just left after a year or so of semi-contact every few months |
| 01:40.24 | TodPunk | More of these places should open offices in Utah. It's just way better for everyone involved |
| 01:40.36 | TodPunk | except the local farmers, I guess |
| 01:41.21 | joshh | our non-SF eng offices are in seattle and europe |
| 01:41.48 | TodPunk | seattle is only slightly better |
| 01:41.50 | joshh | but we have non-eng offices in every city we are in, including SLC |
| 01:42.04 | TodPunk | I was looking to move there for a while. Had several interviews, too. Just found something here faster. |
| 01:42.26 | joshh | seattle is mostly SREs though |
| 01:42.37 | TodPunk | yeah, same with Google's offices there |
| 01:43.27 | TodPunk | Regardless, I'm happy where I'm at for a good while, and not only just because my boss hangs out in #utah sometimes |
| 01:44.14 | joshh | heh, nice |
| 01:44.17 | joshh | my former boss is in here |
| 01:44.23 | joshh | well, the last utah boss i had |
| 01:44.27 | TodPunk | that jerk |
| 01:44.36 | TodPunk | unless he wasn't a jerk |
| 01:44.51 | joshh | one of the coolest people i've ever known |
| 01:45.23 | joshh | heading out, have a good one |
| 01:45.29 | TodPunk | good luck, good sir |
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| 03:07.16 | levi | I learned vi before vim got as popular as it is, so I never really got into the vim-specific features. I am generally okay with stock vim configs. |
| 03:07.53 | levi | Hardcore editor specialization is for... people other than me. |
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| 16:38.00 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 16:38.04 | TodPunk | ~karma ie |
| 16:38.04 | infobot | ie has karma of -750 |
| 16:39.09 | eightyeight | ~brave++ |
| 16:39.13 | eightyeight | ~karma brave |
| 16:39.13 | infobot | brave has karma of 31 |
| 16:44.13 | spangborn | ~brave-- |
| 16:44.53 | eightyeight | ~spangborn-- |
| 16:45.21 | TodPunk | ~spangborn** |
| 16:45.37 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 16:45.44 | spangborn | Hahaha. |
| 16:45.49 | spangborn | ~karma spangborn |
| 16:45.49 | infobot | spangborn has karma of -2 |
| 16:45.54 | spangborn | Yesssss. |
| 16:46.11 | spangborn | Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to oreo cookies |
| 16:46.17 | TodPunk | really? |
| 16:46.21 | TodPunk | I'll have to tell my coworker |
| 16:47.25 | eightyeight | costco pizza leads to anger |
| 16:47.31 | eightyeight | and indigestion |
| 16:47.33 | spangborn | Nah, indigestion |
| 16:47.34 | spangborn | Haha |
| 16:47.36 | eightyeight | :) |
| 16:47.41 | spangborn | But happiness because it's delicious |
| 17:29.20 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 17:37.32 | eightyeight | TodPunk: any goal on negative ie karma? |
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| 17:51.34 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 17:56.44 | TodPunk | 777 |
| 17:57.14 | TodPunk | I figure -777 is more hilarious than -666 and it will annoy youtah |
| 17:57.17 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 17:58.13 | spangborn | ~karma ie |
| 17:58.13 | infobot | ie has karma of -753 |
| 17:58.17 | spangborn | ~ie-- |
| 17:59.05 | eightyeight | heh |
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| 18:18.49 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
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| 18:57.23 | Migs | http://i.imgur.com/nrS7U5d.gifv |
| 19:07.15 | programmerq | lol |
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| 20:05.29 | eightyeight | Migs: https://i.imgur.com/XrP3lu5.gifv |
| 20:07.23 | Migs | haha |
| 21:00.25 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:01.31 | spangborn | ~ie-- |
| 21:03.09 | eightyeight | ~ie-- |
| 21:11.42 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:14.06 | youtah | asdf |
| 21:14.10 | youtah | ~ie-- |
| 21:14.15 | youtah | ~karma ie |
| 21:14.15 | infobot | ie has karma of -760 |
| 21:14.39 | youtah | You're almost there TodPunk |
| 21:14.40 | youtah | ~twss |
| 21:14.40 | infobot | That's what she said! |
| 21:15.07 | youtah | That's amazing Migs |
| 21:15.18 | youtah | what would happen if you turned the dog upside down |
| 21:16.58 | spangborn | Ow. https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss |
| 21:17.50 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:18.06 | spangborn | I guess the driver really lost his head |
| 21:18.20 | programmerq | too soon |
| 21:28.28 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:28.50 | youtah | and on a lighter note... http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/hubble-captures-vivid-auroras-in-jupiter-s-atmosphere |
| 21:29.19 | youtah | OMG.... did you guys notice that Tesla cars had a PERFECT record up until TodPunk changed the score of IE away from -666?!?!?! |
| 21:30.05 | youtah | Get it btw? |
| 21:30.11 | youtah | a "Light" er note? |
| 21:30.15 | youtah | har har har |
| 21:30.18 | youtah | slaps knee |
| 21:32.43 | TodPunk | gives youtah a zippo |
| 21:32.48 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:33.36 | youtah | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3MPKLy9qHU |
| 21:33.43 | *** part/#utah smcquay (~smcquay@173-164-185-125-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:34.51 | youtah | OMG! |
| 21:34.55 | youtah | Today is the last day of the month! |
| 21:35.01 | eightyeight | ~ie-- |
| 21:35.14 | youtah | asdf |
| 21:35.16 | youtah | ~ie-- |
| 21:35.31 | youtah | that's why you asdf |
| 21:35.37 | youtah | asdf responsibly TodPunk |
| 21:35.55 | youtah | Friends don't let friends ~command twice in a row |
| 21:36.01 | eightyeight | ~ie-- |
| 21:36.07 | youtah | asdf |
| 21:36.11 | youtah | ~ie-- |
| 21:36.19 | youtah | ~karma ie |
| 21:36.19 | infobot | ie has karma of -767 |
| 21:36.26 | youtah | 10 away |
| 21:44.45 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 21:51.33 | eightyeight | ~ie-- |
| 22:06.19 | TodPunk | poor netsplit |
| 22:06.25 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 22:11.10 | spangborn | ~ie-- |
| 22:11.23 | spangborn | I'm joining the IE hate brigade because I'm dealing with IE11 bugs today. |
| 22:11.29 | TodPunk | sad day |
| 22:11.52 | spangborn | IE11/Edge doesn't like to send CORS headers when it should, apparently. |
| 22:15.57 | programmerq | ~ie-- |
| 22:16.02 | programmerq | because why not? |
| 22:16.06 | programmerq | ~ie |
| 22:16.06 | infobot | ie is, like, the domain suffix for Ireland, or Internet Explorer, or the browser of the Devil, or the worst browser in the entire universe and it should be eliminated by any means possible, or the spawn of evil, nay all evil spawns from ie, or the worst |
| 22:16.13 | programmerq | ~karma ie |
| 22:16.13 | infobot | ie has karma of -772 |
| 22:16.17 | programmerq | oh man |
| 22:17.54 | spangborn | ~ie-- |
| 22:19.16 | TodPunk | spangborn: you mean preflight headers? |
| 22:19.21 | TodPunk | because CORS would be the server's duty |
| 22:19.25 | spangborn | No, not even preflight headers |
| 22:19.47 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 22:19.48 | spangborn | You don't have to use preflight headers if you're using very basic CORS operations |
| 22:20.18 | spangborn | If you're just using standard CORS headers, standard content-types, a preflight request isn't necessary |
| 22:20.35 | TodPunk | I didn't think the browser sent anything with that |
| 22:20.39 | TodPunk | like, anything |
| 22:20.54 | spangborn | But all cross-origin requests are supposed to send an "Origin" header |
| 22:21.15 | spangborn | http://homakov.blogspot.com/2014/01/how-to-use-cors-without-preflights.html |
| 22:22.38 | TodPunk | this seems dumb |
| 22:22.46 | TodPunk | like, the whole concept |
| 22:22.55 | TodPunk | browsers are retarded |
| 22:22.58 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 22:23.01 | TodPunk | ~browsers-- |
| 22:23.02 | spangborn | Pretty much. |
| 22:23.24 | TodPunk | Phone Janitor may or may not have CORS enabled, I don't know |
| 22:23.30 | TodPunk | maybe I should figure that out |
| 22:29.34 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 22:29.37 | TodPunk | ~browsers-- |
| 22:31.10 | romanovic | ~ieAndChromeInterpretingDatesInconsistentlyWithTheSameJavascript-- |
| 22:31.27 | romanovic | ^ dealing with this today. |
| 22:31.33 | spangborn | Oh dates in IE are fun |
| 22:31.49 | spangborn | I especially love that IE will let you create dates that don't exist |
| 22:31.56 | spangborn | And then silently change them, without throwing an error |
| 22:31.58 | TodPunk | Pro tip: Firefox is the new IE (the "I have decided web standards are irrelevant to my opinions about what SHOULD be" attitude) |
| 22:32.17 | spangborn | Chrome is just as bad. |
| 22:32.33 | spangborn | "This affects Google's advertising bottom line, so we won't implement this" |
| 22:32.51 | spangborn | And Safari is just lagging behind in everything |
| 22:33.01 | TodPunk | Eh, I think chrome bug arguments are typically about font anti-aliasing rather than whether a button should be enabled after you refresh the page or not |
| 22:33.20 | TodPunk | Safari is fine |
| 22:33.30 | TodPunk | not implementing bleeding edge features is not a problem |
| 22:33.39 | TodPunk | implementing them opposite what the standards say is |
| 22:33.43 | TodPunk | ~ie-- |
| 22:33.52 | TodPunk | ~karma ie |
| 22:33.52 | infobot | ie has karma of -777 |
| 22:33.56 | TodPunk | yessssssssss |
| 22:35.36 | jlp_znc | ~ie-- |
| 22:36.24 | TodPunk | ~ie++ |
| 22:37.01 | jlp_znc | ~karma ie |
| 22:37.01 | infobot | ie has karma of -778 |
| 22:37.31 | programmerq | too far |
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| 22:41.57 | spangborn | ~ie++ |
| 22:42.02 | spangborn | ~karma ie |
| 22:42.02 | infobot | ie has karma of -777 |
| 22:42.30 | programmerq | bahaahhaha! 16:42:21 spangborn | ~ie++ |
| 23:02.45 | SunSparc | ~ie-- |