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| 03:35.56 | TodPunk | isn't sure he still smokes, he just thought that was the case |
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| 12:50.20 | eightyeight | https://pthree.org/2016/05/19/say-allo-to-insecurity/ |
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| 14:20.51 | TodPunk | Can I get a summary in a few sentences? The fluff is real. |
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| 15:03.35 | eightyeight | TL;DR- 1) google promise not to log your messages doesn't mean anything. 2) E2E is not default, because an AI wants to mine your messages for relevant ads. 3) While your threat model might be those immediately around you, Google's should be well-funded organizations. 4) Allo is proprietary closed-source software |
| 15:08.29 | RyanE | TL;DR of the summary: Google has changed their slogan to "Have the option to be Evil when necessary". |
| 15:11.46 | TodPunk | I think they just have a different definition of evil |
| 15:12.24 | TodPunk | which largely just means "have the user's best interests so long as we can still serve relevant ads in all cases" |
| 15:12.50 | TodPunk | +" by knowing everything about them" |
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| 15:23.08 | jfindlay | eightyeight: the last point potentially invalidates all the others. If the software is closed, you can't trust it to not have a back door |
| 15:26.27 | eightyeight | agreed |
| 15:26.43 | eightyeight | well |
| 15:26.51 | eightyeight | i don't agree the other points are invalidated |
| 15:27.38 | eightyeight | but if you can't do a reproducible build, then all bets are off on security expectations (backdoors, malicious/non-malicious bugs, etc.) |
| 15:27.49 | TodPunk | s/invalidated/overridden/ |
| 15:27.59 | eightyeight | see, i don't agree with that |
| 15:28.22 | eightyeight | they are still legitimate security problems, proprietary closed-source, or not |
| 15:29.08 | TodPunk | well, to be honest, all your other points are just trust in someone else's word since you can't validate anything about the program, so in that sense, yes, none of the other points matter because they might be fantasy |
| 15:29.25 | TodPunk | Unless you're decompiling it or something, I guess |
| 15:29.47 | eightyeight | ultimately, it boils down to trust, indeed |
| 15:30.05 | eightyeight | google promises they're encrypting the messages server-side. trust. |
| 15:30.06 | TodPunk | I'm not saying this is Cold Hard Truth (tm) or anything, just that jfindlay has a salient point about the import of the last point in diminishing the others |
| 15:30.14 | eightyeight | google promises they're not keeping the messages after delivery. trust. |
| 15:30.22 | eightyeight | google promises they're not selling your data. trust. |
| 15:30.37 | TodPunk | They are totes selling your data |
| 15:30.42 | eightyeight | the last point is certainly the heavy hitter |
| 15:30.52 | eightyeight | but johnny doesn't care about that |
| 15:30.54 | TodPunk | processed, maybe, in some cases |
| 15:31.38 | eightyeight | i believe they're not "selling" your data, but i do believe they are getting a profit of the sales from targeted ads mined from your data |
| 15:33.10 | TodPunk | hence "processed" |
| 15:33.36 | eightyeight | and, who's to say the data mined from your phone doesn't impact ads when logged into your browser on your laptop? |
| 15:33.37 | TodPunk | Or they have a third party agreement that's unrelated which gives access to your data as a tangential thing, but it's not really selling your "data" even though functionally equivalent |
| 15:33.40 | eightyeight | because it certainly does |
| 15:34.26 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 15:34.47 | eightyeight | so, (tl;dr(tl;dr))- allo is not secure nor trustworthy |
| 15:35.41 | RyanE | and not demonstrably Evil. |
| 15:36.09 | eightyeight | aside from ads, how did google think not having E2E enabled by default was a good thing? |
| 15:36.21 | eightyeight | esp. after the news of WhatsApp and the FBI v Apple? |
| 15:36.41 | eightyeight | how are we supposed to interpret Allo other than Google doesn't really care that much about you |
| 15:36.56 | TodPunk | Hahahaha, groups on facebook expecting their users to use the search function |
| 15:37.01 | TodPunk | Oh that's just hilarious |
| 15:37.14 | TodPunk | waits for that to ever happen |
| 16:11.35 | fadein | I find it terribly ironic that, in an age of increasingly powerful personal compute devices and improving bandwidth, the most popular compute options are centralized services for which there is a strong incentive to disrespect privacy |
| 16:12.15 | jfindlay | ~fadein++ |
| 16:12.15 | fadein | unlike the patchwork internet of the 90's, we're building ourselves into nice, shiny silos |
| 16:12.43 | fadein | at least they have beautiful UX? |
| 16:25.24 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_l (~tristanbo@198.60.5.88) |
| 16:37.48 | TodPunk | fadein: turns out that's all people care about, shiny |
| 16:38.34 | TodPunk | So the few of us that care to think beyond how many likes a photo is going to get are bound to either play in that world or stand completely isolated in a cage of our own making, free but not |
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| 20:32.00 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 20:32.00 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
| 20:32.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
| 20:46.31 | jfindlay | ~nacho |
| 20:46.32 | infobot | Sometimes when you are a man you wear stretchy pants in your room all by yourself. |
| 20:46.43 | youtah | INFOBOT! |
| 20:46.50 | youtah | infobot we missed you |
| 20:47.00 | youtah | ~infobot infobot |
| 20:47.01 | infobot | i heard infobot is A program on the IRC that helps users, ask it to do something by putting a ~ and then say a command! |
| 21:02.59 | frostyfrog | Hahaha xD Docker does NOT like having ~25000 under it's command on a single machine. x3 |
| 21:21.27 | TodPunk | youtah: http://hamhijinks.com/confused-protestors-picket-dayton-hamfest-then-leave/ |
| 21:22.00 | jlp_znc | what were they picketing for? trying to stop RF radiation? |
| 21:22.30 | youtah | ROFL |
| 21:22.37 | youtah | "where's the pigs?" |
| 21:22.43 | youtah | "what do you mean the people are the hams?" |
| 21:22.52 | youtah | "wtf is with all the radios?" |
| 21:23.48 | youtah | This is amazing |
| 21:23.50 | youtah | thank you TodPunk |
| 21:24.06 | TodPunk | <3 |
| 21:26.19 | youtah | I hope with all my might this isn't a fake article |
| 21:27.41 | youtah | looks like it's from 2013 |
| 21:50.12 | SunSparc | My money is on fake. Looks fake, sounds fake. Duck typing. |
| 21:50.32 | SunSparc | But funny, nonetheless. |
| 21:51.00 | SunSparc | Speaking of ham, I was just doing some reading for a test: https://hamstudy.org/ |
| 21:51.17 | taxilian | that's a great website :-P |
| 21:51.23 | taxilian | (it's mine) |
| 21:51.41 | SunSparc | ~kudos taxilian |
| 21:51.54 | taxilian | =] thx |
| 21:52.11 | SunSparc | ~=]stats |
| 21:52.33 | SunSparc | ~roflstats |
| 21:53.14 | SunSparc | ~hehstats |
| 21:53.16 | infobot | total count of heh on #utah: 1547. Top 3: eightyeight -- 465 (30.1%), fozzmoo -- 152 (9.8%), harleypig -- 140 (9.0%) |
| 21:54.33 | SunSparc | is apparently more jovial on #uphpu |
| 21:55.13 | SunSparc | That channel is mostly dead these days though. |
| 21:56.55 | eightyeight | 07g08e03t 09b10a11c02k 12i06n13t05o 04t07h08a03t 09v10w 11m02i12c06r13o05b04u07s 08y03o09u 10h11i02p12p06i13e |
| 21:57.11 | frostyfrog | How are ham IDs created again? |
| 21:57.24 | frostyfrog | Anything for those colors :3 |
| 21:57.52 | SunSparc | Make peace, not war, man. |
| 21:58.12 | SunSparc | Or, make code, not bugs, man. |
| 21:59.01 | frostyfrog | make software, not vulnerabilities, man. >_> |
| 22:02.17 | SunSparc | Respect the classics, man! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMPJca16T5k |
| 22:06.49 | TodPunk | SunSparc: that's because PHP is mostly dead |
| 22:07.09 | TodPunk | Not as dead as Rails, but still quite dead on the professional end of things |
| 22:07.17 | jfindlay | ~rails TodPunk |
| 22:07.17 | infobot | TodPunk refactors to 0.90903838177427 picolines of code with the latest rails magic |
| 22:07.28 | TodPunk | it's true, I do |
| 22:08.24 | SunSparc | I am not so sure about the death of PHP. It is used by quite a few sites out there. Even really big ones. |
| 22:08.50 | SunSparc | Though, I do not use it anymore. |
| 22:09.03 | TodPunk | So is rails |
| 22:09.23 | taxilian | PHP is far from dead |
| 22:09.28 | taxilian | but then, perl is also far from dead |
| 22:09.41 | TodPunk | I think they're very much in zombie stage |
| 22:09.43 | taxilian | that doesn't make either language desirable to use for new projects =] |
| 22:09.58 | TodPunk | Also known as maintenance-mode |
| 22:09.59 | taxilian | they both have surprisingly large followings |
| 22:10.14 | taxilian | PHP is still making huge improvements to their engine. It's practically a real language these days |
| 22:10.21 | taxilian | (don't get me wrong -- I won't touch it) |
| 22:11.06 | TodPunk | I will say I think PHP is still more job-prevalent than Python, which is my daily driver, but Python also pays way better on average |
| 22:11.27 | joshh | ya php mcjobs are a joke |
| 22:11.48 | TodPunk | Perl I believe still pays quite well for what fewer jobs are out there |
| 22:11.56 | TodPunk | (Bluehost aside) |
| 22:12.00 | jfindlay | java is also not dead |
| 22:12.10 | TodPunk | Oh, absolutely not. |
| 22:12.54 | TodPunk | Java's still the biggest language in jobs, only really contended by Javascript. I think .NET is getting up there, too, depending on your area |
| 22:13.09 | SunSparc | ~8ball is Lisp dead? |
| 22:13.09 | infobot | Absolutely. |
| 22:13.14 | jfindlay | lol |
| 22:13.39 | SunSparc | ~8ball is TodPunk dead? |
| 22:13.39 | infobot | Please ask again. |
| 22:13.45 | manithree | wonders what the elisp job market is like |
| 22:13.51 | programmerq | ~8ball will youtah give everyone money? |
| 22:13.51 | infobot | Are you smoking crack? |
| 22:14.02 | SunSparc | HAHA! |
| 22:14.31 | SunSparc | ~8ball does youtah have any money? |
| 22:14.32 | infobot | Unsure. |
| 22:14.42 | youtah | lol |
| 22:15.05 | SunSparc | ~lolstats youtah |
| 22:15.24 | TodPunk | C#, the less enterprisey (but still pretty enterprisey) Java work, at a 10% pay cut |
| 22:15.59 | manithree | TodPunk: You should work for Microsoft's marketing department |
| 22:16.30 | TodPunk | No joke, I interviewed there and they wanted me to be a Product Manager rather than an SDE |
| 22:16.36 | SunSparc | ~karma Microsoft |
| 22:16.36 | infobot | microsoft has karma of -4 |
| 22:17.13 | TodPunk | I would have enjoyed working at MS, but alas, it was not time |
| 22:18.05 | jfindlay | TodPunk: are the variable names 10% shorter as well? |
| 22:18.35 | TodPunk | jfindlay: the official ones totally are |
| 22:18.36 | unum | I wonder if I can convince the company to just buy everyone an openwest ticket |
| 22:20.06 | manithree | One of my friends left Utah to work for MS. I gave him an emperor Palpatine action figure as a going away present. |
| 22:20.52 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:23.03 | youtah | I want to print up a bunch of business cards that just say something completely random on them... like "3 out of 5" |
| 22:23.11 | youtah | and then randomly leave them on people's windshields |
| 22:23.40 | TodPunk | youtah: business cards agains humanity? |
| 22:23.40 | youtah | leave them confused as can be |
| 22:24.02 | youtah | TodPunk along the same times, but just to make them wonder for the rest of the day "WTF does this even mean?" |
| 22:24.35 | manithree | "Call Today!" with no phone number |
| 22:24.42 | youtah | YES |
| 22:25.13 | SunSparc | At least lead them on. "You win $1,000,000. To collect, call 801-123-4..." |
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| 22:25.41 | jfindlay | the things that entertain youtah |
| 22:25.57 | manithree | "Call the number on the back of this card to claim your prize" and the back is blank |
| 22:25.58 | youtah | Naw, because then you're leading the persons thoughts with that SunSparc ... you wanna leave them completely clueless |
| 22:26.11 | jfindlay | manithree: what if it's invisible ink? |
| 22:26.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:26.46 | SunSparc | Or you could do random acts of kindness and have compliments on the cards. |
| 22:27.02 | SunSparc | Or mix both and have confusing compliments. |
| 22:27.03 | jfindlay | or how about just random acts? |
| 22:27.06 | youtah | what about something like "fish" |
| 22:27.07 | youtah | and that is it |
| 22:27.15 | SunSparc | Yep :) |
| 22:27.43 | SunSparc | Make the cards fancy too, so it does not just look like throw away ads. |
| 22:28.16 | youtah | "asparagus" |
| 22:28.30 | youtah | http://www.zazzle.com/abstract_diamond_style_elegant_luxury_black_gold_business_card-240716673886902224 |
| 22:28.56 | SunSparc | lol, that is perfect! |
| 22:29.09 | jfindlay | youtah: include a barcode, like that xscreensaver |
| 22:31.17 | SunSparc | "Thank you for smelling like fish" |
| 22:31.39 | SunSparc | "You have really great asparagus" |
| 22:31.44 | youtah | the cow craddles the egg at eleven |
| 22:31.58 | SunSparc | lol |
| 22:32.10 | youtah | "Orin Hatch sucks at Nintenda" |
| 22:32.15 | youtah | Nintendo* |
| 22:32.31 | SunSparc | =) |
| 22:33.06 | youtah | "save the date" |
| 22:34.54 | jfindlay | "save the time" |
| 22:35.17 | youtah | http://i.imgur.com/N3MGXIs.png |
| 22:35.37 | SunSparc | Classy |
| 22:35.53 | SunSparc | Reminds me of the pi symbol in the corner. |
| 22:37.31 | youtah | http://i.imgur.com/m92mljj.png |
| 22:38.59 | SunSparc | You are going to have some fun. If only you could read the minds of the people who receive them. |
| 22:39.25 | youtah | have you see the parking coloring books? |
| 22:39.37 | TodPunk | 3/5 - "Not bad" |
| 22:40.09 | youtah | I got you this coloring book so you can practice staying between the lines. |
| 22:40.25 | youtah | or "inside the lines" |
| 22:41.11 | jfindlay | in spherical geometry, you're always inside lines |
| 22:43.04 | youtah | "three of asparagus" |
| 23:28.33 | unum | for a while there were all these benajmin harrison signs up all over |
| 23:28.59 | unum | it turned out to be the billboard company testing the effectiveness of their signs |
| 23:32.22 | *** join/#utah youtah_ (~Jeff@50.243.6.92) |
